A homeless drifter in my town

[thepainterdoug]

Is the most interesting person I observe in my upscale figured out town. I have watched him for about 25 years. He sleeps on the side of the road, pees and poops wherever, never speaks, smells like hell. I have offered him money, food, coffee, he just stares.

I ,as well as others leave food for him. In winter he seems to disappear. Then there he is again the following spring. amazing.

I ask myself, what is he thinking? what does he do all day? Does he mourn his plight or anything? is he happy, or is he not thinking at all?

Did he have his colonoscopy that we are all feared into? Taking his vitamins, drinking filtered water? Well of course not. Yet year after year, there he is , seemingly health as a horse!

i don't know, don't get it, don't get much of anything. When I see him I just sing to myself , the beatles "the fool on the hill " maybe he's smarter than us all?

[Sue (Ayt)]

Did he have his colonoscopy that we are all feared into? Taking his vitamins, drinking filtered water? Well of course not. Yet year after year, there he is , seemingly health as a horse!

i don't know, don't get it, don't get much of anything. When I see him I just sing to myself , the beatles "the fool on the hill " maybe he's smarter than us all?

I would imagine he has attained peace of mind, which I truly equate with health, from observation.
This can be acquired no matter one's station in life. I do try to keep this as my own foremost goal.
:flower:
(here's another tune)
xv0dzJ6Nm7o
"Me, I'm just a lawnmower - you can tell me by the way I walk."

[Mashika]

Is the most interesting person I observe in my upscale figured out town. I have watched him for about 25 years. He sleeps on the side of the road, pees and poops wherever, never speaks, smells like hell. I have offered him money, food, coffee, he just stares.

I ,as well as others leave food for him. In winter he seems to disappear. Then there he is again the following spring. amazing.

I ask myself, what is he thinking? what does he do all day? Does he mourn his plight or anything? is he happy, or is he not thinking at all?

Did he have his colonoscopy that we are all feared into? Taking his vitamins, drinking filtered water? Well of course not. Yet year after year, there he is , seemingly health as a horse!

i don't know, don't get it, don't get much of anything. When I see him I just sing to myself ,




the beatles "the fool on the hill " maybe he's smarter than us all?



When i was 14 or so, i went to live on a small Mexican town for a bit, through summer, and out there on the streets there was this guy walking barefoot, with a beard from like 2/3 years and all dirty and stuff. He would just sit out there on the street corners and watch people go by, then suddenly he would talk to kids and ask them if they were doing well on math and other stuff, and then go into a crazy session where he would explain very advanced math and physics concepts and start writing on the walls with chalk to explain his stuff

Cops would come by and take him away, then 2 days later he would be back out there LOL

I was very interested in that guy because he was very weird, always silent then suddenly talking non stop about equations and what not

Turns out, from what i learned, he used to be a great math and science teacher, extremely well educated and college professor. But he had developed bad schizophrenia symptoms when he got close to his middle age, and his family pretty much threw him out of his own house and forgot he existed :/

I guess this guy could have an incredible story as well, but no one can tell in the same way as i thought that guy was crazy but actually he was just "thinking" all along but unable to be himself as he was, so he could express what he was actually thinking all that time.

[raregem]

Years back there were two characters who were homeless. I say characters because each person had there unique and memorable personalities. Leslie, as he liked to be called was a very small framed, skinny male figure who would dress up in thigh high boots and a women's bikini swimsuit. He would be downtown just a few blocks from the state capitol building with his makeshift "home" on a bicycle. Rumor had it he was "kept" by a few rich men. Who knows. He was still a character for many years downtown until one day I heard he had passed away. The second man, Jennifer, was tall and large (not overweight). He prefered to wear women's dresses, padding and makeup. He had a sweet disposition. He would ride the city bus and the bus driver would stop as often as Jennifer wanted so Jennifer could place leaflets on the telephone poles as he was running for mayor. He died out in the bitter cold one winter. There are those who do need to be on meds as they exhibit schizophrenic type behaviour. Occasionally, some verbally attack and charge. Generally, most are complacent and hold up funny signs for money. Some for years. I offered a homeless man a temp job for cash to do what he was doing but for advertising a company. He said yes and he did not show up for work. I was only a few blocks from his "corner". Just never really know what the homeless really want. This might be their shackles or be their true freedom in life.

[thepainterdoug]

Raregem/ its kind of you to offer him a job. these people are real people, a part of us , a part of each other, and yet we look and feel, that can't be me . I think our shackles and our freedom are indistinguishable at times.

mashika/ the problem with my homeless man is that he never speaks. he never asks for anything which is amazing to me. i know he knows how it works, he sometimes will stay near a coffee or bagel shop knowing there is food there. almost like a cat who sits quietly near the food dish. where a dog will be jumping up and down for what it wants. the cat just sits.

I just think to myself what a long day it is for him. from the early morning when all head out, bizzy doing all till the day ends into the night, he's just still doing the same thing. standing and staring.

[Valerie Villars]

I grew up with a boy, Bobby, who went to St. Paul's private high school which was our "brother" school. For those who were bought up Catholic, you'll know what this means.

Bobby was what we used to call "simple". Some people made fun of him. I did not. When he would get overwhelmed, he would hold his head, move it side to side and say "I feel like my head is about to explode."

Fast forward many years later. I saw Bobby doing someone's lawn on my street and spent some time speaking with him. I was tickled to death to find out he had his own landscaping company and was quite successful. He was also just a happy person.

I, on the other hand, was working three jobs and stressed out all the time. I suddenly asked myself "Well, just who is the simple person here?" Him, happy and content or me, stressed out and not making ends meet very well.

I had a good laugh over it and never forgot that lesson.

[Bill Ryan]

Once, way back in my 20s, I was driving along a remote little country road in Somerset, SW England. (I lived very near Glastonbury then.) I drove by a tramp (a hobo), and as I was passing him, I caught his eye. On impulse I stopped, and offered him a ride.

He was really grateful. He said he almost never got rides from anyone. I asked him what it was like being on the road like that.

He told me his house had burned down, and he'd lost his wife and children, who had died in the fire. He was so destroyed by that, he just started walking down the road, and had been walking ever since.

:flower:

[thepainterdoug]

Val so true, yet somehow we know what our path is. and sometimes its one you wouldn't choose, but wouldn't give up . But happy for him .

Bill/ yes all the terms, drifters, hobos, tramps , over the years. what a hard story, hard to know how someone could endure such a thing.

in my opinion , anyone ,no matter who, no matter their station in life that lives out their time here, is a true hero!

[Ernie Nemeth]

When I was 16 my parents let me go visit my girlfriend at her summer home with her mother in Owen Sound, Ontario. I took a bus up there and spent a very nice few days with her.

On the way home I lost my wallet. All my cash was in there and my bus ticket from Toronto to Montreal. I did not want to call my parents for help the very first time they let me go away alone. So I put my bag in a locker and walked the streets thinking about what to do. I had friends in Toronto who had moved the year before from Montreal so all I had to do was make it through the night. Thus buoyed, I went back to get a coat out of the locker only to find the station was closed for the night!

Cold, hungry and a bit scared, I improvised. I waited for dark and found a protected spot in a basement stairs to the TD bank headquarters in downtown Toronto. Then I collected some dried out branches from some nearby trees and made a small fire to keep warm by.

Later on a homeless guy came by and stopped by my fire. We chatted. I told him my story. He asked if I had any money so that at least we could get something to drink to pass the time. I said I only had enough money for a coffee in the morning. He said that was enough for some mouthwash. I didn't like it much but he did.

I made it through the night with my new-found friend. He was gruff, not very talkative, but he was company.

The next day I called my friend who called her dad who met me downtown. A few days later they got me on a bus back home...

[Mark]

Folks like that are often in liminal spaces of being and can say the most amazing things to you in the moment. I've had numerous instances where perceptibly homeless people have come up to me and made comments that had meaning in my life, even though they apparently were not aware of such, acting as channels for higher messages. For folks who don't believe in coincidences every interaction has meaning, which gives another cast to these interactions with those who have fallen through the cracks of society purposefully or by dint of hard circumstance.

[thepainterdoug]

Ernie/ great story to share, on just one night, really can shake you up.

and thanks Rahkyt i feel all that brush thru our path is meant to be . its amazing that this drifter person i see in town has no idea he has enacted a discussion on this forum. you can never know the impact your life has on others

[James Newell]

I have counseled people of his type. They are of all types, some are quite wacko, some are just druggies, some are at peace with the lifestyle.
My theory is that the complex lifestyle of today eg. bills, taxes, modern living is far too stressful for many. So a simpler style is preferable. Go camp out in the deep woods for a week and after the cold and hard ground get more comfortable, it is much less stressful than the modern lifestyle we strive to teach our kids to become part of.

A great example of a person doing this is Mick Dodge who has become quite famous. https://www.kiwireport.com/behind-life-mick-dodge/

[Bill Ryan]

I have counseled people of his type. They are of all types, some are quite wacko, some are just druggies, some are at peace with the lifestyle.
My theory is that the complex lifestyle of today eg. bills, taxes, modern living is far too stressful for many. So a simpler style is preferable. Go camp out in the deep woods for a week and after the cold and hard ground get more comfortable, it is much less stressful than the modern lifestyle we strive to teach our kids to become part of.

A great example of a person doing this is Mick Dodge who has become quite famous. https://www.kiwireport.com/behind-life-mick-dodge/Yes. Dave Paulides often mentions this when discussing his bewildering Missing 411 cases, stressing that if any person wants to 'disappear' (i.e. totally escape from their own life for reasons of their own), this is never a crime.

[happyuk]

These are people who have been crushed by life's inevitable blows and have given up, sometimes in not so positive ways. Whenever I encounter a homeless person I always like to chat, at least briefly on how they are and how they got here, where they are going. Unlike many people I have had the misfortune to work with I have never walked away from these people feeling belittled, irritated, patronised, exhausted or chastised. One way I get a sense of perspective is to remember many of the obviously unhappy rich people I have known. Rich men who were flabby, unhealthy, dissatisfied and cheating on their wives. And their wives, who all had sour, discontented faces and mean-looking eyes that many rich women inevitably have. You feel when you look at them that you are being judged, analysed and evaluated. I know this much - if the working class poor are unhappy, the rich are miserably unhappy.

[TomKat]

I worked with a guy once who said he'd once been jobless and homeless (live-in girlfriend kicked him out). I asked what it was like. He said, not bad. All stress was gone. All he had to worry about was getting to the mission to sleep, and he had no pressures. Made me wonder.
Also reminds me of the old joke: What do you call a musician who breaks up with his girlfriend? Homeless.

[Caliban]

I remember a drifter in my hometown, skinny as a rail, but always clean and well-kept. He would incessantly walk the streets during the day, not sure what he did at night. I was intrigued by him, actually I find all drifters and hobo types to be intriguing. I tried to talk to him once or twice but he just kind of grunted.

Yeah, maybe he had mental problems, but don't so many of us, in our cars and mortgaged lives? Yes, he walked up and down with no seeming purpose. But don't we walk (drive) up and down and back and around with very little idea of a real purpose?

[rgray222]

i don't know, don't get it, don't get much of anything. When I see him I just sing to myself , the beatles "the fool on the hill " maybe he's smarter than us all?

I truly believe that we live in a world with no coincidences. Our interaction with people (all people) has some meaning no matter how insignificant. Many times our communication (even if it is one way) has some meaning for the other person and we are just an unwitting messenger. At times our presence could be profound or it simply serves to give them a nudge in the direction the universe needs them to go. Sometimes looking for meaning makes us the "fool on the hill." (Of course, I mean this in a nice way).

[Mike]

I can see how the life of a drifter might be appealing. There's no responsibility, no expectations. Only a burnt out tranquility maybe..at best.

But in this life, meaning is found in responsibility. And you cannot give up responsibility and not forfeit meaning as well. That's the trade off.

The homeless men and women here in the West are not asthetic monks..and ive never assigned that type of romanticism to them. And as unfortunate as their luck may have been, if you listen closely to their stories you'll see that they are almost always responsible in some way for their predicament(with the exception of the mentally ill perhaps).

There are endless jobs out there. More than enough. The only scarcity is in the jobs *people really wouldn't mind doing*. So there's no excuse in not finding a job. There might be some challenges along the way, for a homeless person, but if you really want one, you can get one.

If there is a shelter nearby, a homeless man or woman only needs to come up with a few bucks to get them thru the day. It's not terribly difficult...just a few hours at a busy street corner. It's much easier than working a formal job. And having gotten accustomed to this lifestyle, homeless folks begin feeling entitled to it.

I think every adult has a moral obligation to take care of themselves..to support themselves. Because if you don't, someone else has to do it for you, and that's just wrong in so many ways. The romanticism of the drifter stops there for me. You can't give up personal responsibility without having another person or persons acquire it on your behalf. It's unfair. At the very least, we should shoulder our own burdens. We owe our fellow humans that much.

[Ernie Nemeth]

It takes a lot less than most people think to end up homeless. The stories are endless.

I personally have been on the brink a few times, less than 2 years ago was the worst. I came within 1 day of being evicted. But I lucked out and found a job that paid exactly what I owed in rent. If I had not paid the rent I would have been evicted and I would not have ever been able to rent again. Then what?

No, it is far too easy to end up on the street, and there is no one not susceptible. My predicament did not happen over night. It took years of constant lay-offs eating into my savings and finally having to live hand to mouth for years. And two years of work and I am again laid off, my savings gone.

I am OK until early spring but why should I have to think about how long can I go before I am homeless! It is a constant reality. I am sick of it.

Here are my first three jobs before I was 20. Worked six weeks without pay, the sucker got off owing everyone at the hotel large sums. First real job in the trade - 1 year, laid off. Second year in the trade, laid off. Third job in the trade 2 years, laid off three times. Then no jobs for 2 years...That's 5 lay-offs before I was twenty.

Add to that two failed marriages and I am at the end of my rope financially. The only good news, I guess, is that my parents called yesterday to say they had changed their will again and I am back in the will...but to count on my parents dying so that I get enough money to live out my old age with some dignity is hardly a safe and secure feeling.

Guess I should have chosen a better profession, like coffee server or taxi driver/delivery person. At least they always have work...

[Trisher]

I can see how the life of a drifter might be appealing. There's no responsibility, no expectations. Only a burnt out tranquility maybe..at best.

But in this life, meaning is found in responsibility. And you cannot give up responsibility and not forfeit meaning as well. That's the trade off.

The homeless men and women here in the West are not asthetic monks..and ive never assigned that type of romanticism to them. And as unfortunate as their luck may have been, if you listen closely to their stories you'll see that they are almost always responsible in some way for their predicament(with the exception of the mentally ill perhaps).

There are endless jobs out there. More than enough. The only scarcity is in the jobs *people really wouldn't mind doing*. So there's no excuse in not finding a job. There might be some challenges along the way, for a homeless person, but if you really want one, you can get one.

If there is a shelter nearby, a homeless man or woman only needs to come up with a few bucks to get them thru the day. It's not terribly difficult...just a few hours at a busy street corner. It's much easier than working a formal job. And having gotten accustomed to this lifestyle, homeless folks begin feeling entitled to it.

I think every adult has a moral obligation to take care of themselves..to support themselves. Because if you don't, someone else has to do it for you, and that's just wrong in so many ways. The romanticism of the drifter stops there for me. You can't give up personal responsibility without having another person or persons acquire it on your behalf. It's unfair. At the very least, we should shoulder our own burdens. We owe our fellow humans that much.

If we lived in a tribe or in large family groups each person would be supported through their lives as and when needed. Today we tend to live singular lives. Each family unit separate from the other. Many singles struggling to pay enormous rents and bills. Old people dying alone. Sick people struggling to cope. Many people are overwhelmed. At some point in each person's life they will have helped another. Here where I live there are a number of councils taking in a few refugee families from war torn areas. They are given a house and meagre benefits and are not allowed to work for six months. They are also supported by a few in the community who speak their language. There are a minority in the local community that want these people to eek out their benefits to pay for all their things and those that without a second thought help them in every way possible. When you learn their stories you find that they lost absolutely everything..family members, businesses, their homes and their culture.

Anyone and everyone can unexpectedly end up needing help. We live in a very unstable world.

Trisher

[thepainterdoug]

I have often thought , what would it take, to take a homeless person, lets just say able bodied and mind , and if willing, pick him up, clean him up, give him clothes and make him presentable and then put him out in the working world and say , ok , get out there now and get a job

And lets say that the person even got a job, at a coffee shop or something, then where would he live, while trying to save his money, what checking account, c card does he have ? how in gods name could he ever begin to have a months deposit, month an a half security for rent rent and realtor fee covered in order to get a modest apartment. Then utility fees ,hooking up electric, phone, insurances and on and on and on.

Im sorry but without prior family or communal help and support, it seems unsurmountable to me . I think If I was already homeless and acclimated to it, I would stay that way

[Pam]

I can see how the life of a drifter might be appealing. There's no responsibility, no expectations. Only a burnt out tranquility maybe..at best.

But in this life, meaning is found in responsibility. And you cannot give up responsibility and not forfeit meaning as well. That's the trade off.

The homeless men and women here in the West are not asthetic monks..and ive never assigned that type of romanticism to them. And as unfortunate as their luck may have been, if you listen closely to their stories you'll see that they are almost always responsible in some way for their predicament(with the exception of the mentally ill perhaps).

There are endless jobs out there. More than enough. The only scarcity is in the jobs *people really wouldn't mind doing*. So there's no excuse in not finding a job. There might be some challenges along the way, for a homeless person, but if you really want one, you can get one.

If there is a shelter nearby, a homeless man or woman only needs to come up with a few bucks to get them thru the day. It's not terribly difficult...just a few hours at a busy street corner. It's much easier than working a formal job. And having gotten accustomed to this lifestyle, homeless folks begin feeling entitled to it.

I think every adult has a moral obligation to take care of themselves..to support themselves. Because if you don't, someone else has to do it for you, and that's just wrong in so many ways. The romanticism of the drifter stops there for me. You can't give up personal responsibility without having another person or persons acquire it on your behalf. It's unfair. At the very least, we should shoulder our own burdens. We owe our fellow humans that much.

I totally agree with you, Mike, that meaning is found in responsibility. But I am challenging your assertion that anyone can get a job and a place to live if they want to. I live in Western Washington and it costs 800.00 a month to rent a room. A crappy studio would be around a 1000.00 a month not to mention all the other costs. It is really common to see people living in cars and RVs around here, even in the rural area that I moved to on the peninsula. Anyone without some kind of support system is much closer than they realize to being homeless. If you have convictions of any sort it can be almost impossible to find rentals. I was witness to a younger guy that had a car and apartment and job lose it all for the huge sin of driving while on a suspended license. The state levers so many "fees" for reinstatement and impounds your car so that it is next to impossible for someone to pay other expenses and pay the fees to get your car back and license back on a lower paying job. In Washington state it doesn't take very long for them to sell your car. The system is rigged.

The other side of the coin is that there are those that choose to be homeless. Seattle and Olympia are ultra liberal and seem to encourage homelessness. I believe that homelessness is a money making enterprise for many, just like they turned prison into a profitable enterprise. There are those that live off and exploit this.

As for the person that chooses that life and is not mentally ill and not an addict. I admire that they can live with themselves without the million of little distractions that make up the lives of most of us.

[Bill Ryan]

I have often thought , what would it take, to take a homeless person, lets just say able bodied and mind , and if willing, pick him up, clean him up, give him clothes and make him presentable and then put him out in the working world and say , ok , get out there now and get a job

See the 1983 comedy film Trading Places (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_Places), with Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy. :)

[Caliban]

I have often thought , what would it take, to take a homeless person, lets just say able bodied and mind , and if willing, pick him up, clean him up, give him clothes and make him presentable and then put him out in the working world and say , ok , get out there now and get a job

And lets say that the person even got a job, at a coffee shop or something, then where would he live, while trying to save his money, what checking account, c card does he have ? how in gods name could he ever begin to have a months deposit, month an a half security for rent rent and realtor fee covered in order to get a modest apartment. Then utility fees ,hooking up electric, phone, insurances and on and on and on.

Im sorry but without prior family or communal help and support, it seems unsurmountable to me . I think If I was already homeless and acclimated to it, I would stay that way

No, there's no real system in place for someone (sans family/good friends' support) for someone in this country trying to get back on their feet after a steep setback. Even someone with real determination is basically on their own. Not to say they're totally lost but it takes enormous strength and faith to draw on resources from within you may not be so well versed in. It can be done, anything can almost but it's a scary scenario.

[Bill Ryan]

A touching small anecdote reported by a most remarkable woman, Rosie Swale-Pope, who at the age of 72 is running from England to Nepal. (Read that again! She may need her own thread.)


https://explorersweb.com/2019/08/14/running-at-age-72-from-england-to-nepal


“In Germany in the forest, I came across a guy lying on the path and it was quite obvious he was dying. He absolutely had nothing and he was crying and unhappy. I didn’t know what to do because I was not in touch with anybody, as my phone wasn’t working … I held him, I held him for about an hour, he was beyond help and he just died in my arms.”

:flower:
~~~

That reminded me of a situation I encountered many years ago when I was living in London, that was very slightly similar, but with a totally different context and outcome.

I was walking on Hampstead Heath which (for non-Londoners) is a very large public park with a great many trees and bushes, not always open and grassy. Maybe a bit like Central Park in New York.

Then I saw there was a very disheveled man who was lying under a bush, moaning softly and continually. And I saw that everyone else had assumed he was a dirty old drunken tramp, and had just walked right past him, doing nothing.

So I stopped to investigate. He wasn't a hobo, at all. He was a regular walker in the park, but he had varicose veins that had ruptured and he was lying with his face in the dirt, bleeding badly.

I was able to improvise a tourniquet, stabilize him a little, reassure him (he was very frightened and weak), and call for an ambulance. After that, he was just fine, and extremely grateful. If I had walked on by as well, together with everyone else that day, he may well have died.

The instant assumptions we sometimes make about people... it makes one think.

[thepainterdoug]

Bill/ he who saves one life, saves the world entire...

thats why I like coming here!

[Caliban]

Bill/ he who saves one life, saves the world entire...

thats why I like coming here!

Why not paint the guy? Immortalize him!

[thepainterdoug]

Caliban i did! go to www.dougauld.com his portrait is among my 100 whistleblowers project.

[Caliban]

Caliban i did! go to www.dougauld.com his portrait is among my 100 whistleblowers project.

I love that series. Which one is he? And--is he a Whistleblower in the sense of sounding the alarm on this nutso reality we've collectively created?

[Sue (Ayt)]

Caliban i did! go to www.dougauld.com his portrait is among my 100 whistleblowers project.

Oh my goodness painterdoug, those are almost ethereal!
(but I couldn't find Corey Goode.... :ROFL: )

[thepainterdoug]

Caliban/ he has a hat on and image is glowing red. click on it name will appear
and yes, the series is of whistleblowers and informers. bill is under that heading for sure


AYT. love the comedy!

[Floating]

Another view... “Is it OK if someone wants to live for years on a bench?”

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50211901?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/cxqvep8kqext/long-reads&link_location=live-reporting-story

About a man and his mother living on a bench. Homeless by choice.
Fascinating read.

[thepainterdoug]

FLOATING/ incredible! thanks for posting

[TomKat]

Guess I should have chosen a better profession, like coffee server or taxi driver/delivery person. At least they always have work...

Of course you could take a job as a delivery person. But that's the conundrum. Take that job and, as far as unemployment insurance goes, that's your new profession.

[Matthew]

...
I ask myself, what is he thinking? what does he do all day? Does he mourn his plight or anything? is he happy, or is he not thinking at all?
...

I live near a larger town called Reading; it's got a large homeless population, and if a city status was awarded on the number of homeless then the town Reading would have been promoted to a city long ago.

The people of Reading are very sympathetic to the homeless, and there's a large Sikh driven movement to offer free food. Sure, this attracts homeless but I'm still fine with it personally because it's not as if people become homeless because of the free Sikh food.

I see the same faces for a while, but typically the homeless people stay for a bit then move on. The scratch marks on their faces are signs of crack use, but I still spare them change even if I am, actually, and not proudly, funding their habits with my loose change, I hope at least some of it goes towards sustenance, etc.

Sometimes (a year ago at a previous job) me and my co-workers could look out the office window, down to the car park below, and on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday some homeless faces I recognised, well - they'd be jacking up in our office car park and then literally passed out in front of cars parked their. Once they pulled a sofa there and we'd see them sleeping on it - that was better than in front of a car. Point is, while I feel I must, in conscience, spare them change, it's not always as simple as giving them money.

And this is why I'm responding to this thread; I ask myself: what is their story? Did they escape abuse? .. because I assume they did. And some look so young, the memories don't sit well.

Some are quiet, unobtrusive beggers but others are full blown hustlers. Especially since some are only in town for a few days - they have nothing to lose - and will tell what turns out to be a tall tail, something like they only need £20 to secure a homeless shelter for the week! - and I know it doesn't work like that. Because their are free homeless shelters but they are strict on drugs and alcohol. I offer a lift but the story falls apart quickly.

What is their real story? Because I bet it's not good. And now they have become a hustling grifter with addictions. No easy answers, no easy action to help. There is no easy action I can do to help.

The best thing I did was give a homeless person a one litre bottle of orange juice in a heatwave. She asked for money, but it was silly hot, and she mentioned thirsty amongst the begging. I had no change just the juice, and because I've been thirsty in my life and can never forget, it was the best joy to see her drink loads from the bottle and get refreshed. A combination of my own baggage, and my act of kindness made this one of the most rewarding experiences in recent memory. Handing out change is tinged with regret (but I hope some goes towards sustenance), but this was pure, untaintable charity for someone who was thirsty - Charity is not always as clean as that.

One guy who begs for change, doesn't even ask but he is a nice guy and gives me a "hello, how are you?" if I have change or not. If I have no spare change I will apologise in the style of talking to another human, rather than an inconvenience, because being ignored constantly is a dehumanising experience. It's great this guy treats me back as a human rather than a hustle or cash-cow.

[thepainterdoug]

YO YO YO

I admit the easiest thing is to give some money. although its a generous act, you can give money and not really give anything of yourself. we can see this in parenting, where perhaps a dad give a son money, to get out of his hair, thus not having to sit down and talk to his son about whats going on in his life.

its not as easy to have a new cup of coffee in your hand and give it to a homeless person. or as you did, a bottle of orange juice. thats giving something of yourself .

I have mixed feeling about the whole topic. all good people want the same for others. but nature teaches us it doest work that way. its a hard cold environment out in the world, everything feeding on everything else, not all can be winners .

and within this reality, i have always felt that capitalism and our free market system, is the best of all bad systems

[Trisher]

I have never been homeless. I have however been taken for a ride from people I knew who were in a desperate situation. It took me a while to understand just why my generosity had led to such very difficult outcomes. I thought I could rescue them and in fact took away their power to get themselves out of a situation. They became too dependent upon me. I thought I knew better than they did how to resolve their issues. The wise give food and seeds to the hungry villagers so that they can move forward and improve their situation through their own efforts. Here in the UK they give homeless people the chance to make some money by letting them sell "The Big Issue" magazine. There is no one answer for all but initial support and then offering self help opportunities will definitely work for some.

Trisher

[Valerie Villars]

I read a story this morning about a woman who gave a homeless man five dollars. She then asked him what his name was. He asked her why she wanted to know and she replied that she was going to pray for him and she preferred to refer to him by name.

The man's shoulders began to shake and tears rolled down his face.

No one, in all the years he had been homeless, had ever cared enough to ask him what his name was. A little humanity and dignity goes a long way.

[thepainterdoug]

so true Val

I often say with a big smile, to people who look lost and forgotten, I see you...

[Mashika]

I have never been homeless. I have however been taken for a ride from people I knew who were in a desperate situation. It took me a while to understand just why my generosity had led to such very difficult outcomes. I thought I could rescue them and in fact took away their power to get themselves out of a situation. They became too dependent upon me. I thought I knew better than they did how to resolve their issues. The wise give food and seeds to the hungry villagers so that they can move forward and improve their situation through their own efforts. Here in the UK they give homeless people the chance to make some money by letting them sell "The Big Issue" magazine. There is no one answer for all but initial support and then offering self help opportunities will definitely work for some.

Trisher

Totally get that, i have also helped friends in that way, and then they kept coming back in a dependant way. I had to set boundaries for them and be very specific, some liked it and thanked me for it, some rejected me right away "You have all you need in life and two cars, why can't i borrow the older one for a couple months! It's not like you will need it" they said

They did not need help, they demanded it from me because i'm in a better situation, but only because i have worked very hard to get here, unlike them. Somehow they feel i owe them support due to me having a better life. So i had one less friend that day

[thepainterdoug]

Mashika / yes, a line must be drawn. there are people that begrudge you for having things. Some may say regarding the homeless, hey you don't know their story why they are homeless , how the have lost everything etc,

well, people don't know my story, how I have what I have by sticking with it, getting up everyday and applying myself , working hard , seeking knowledge and trying to be a good soul etc

the story needs to be heard both ways. no one should judge anyone and the only time i will begrudge those who have, is if they lack manners, compassion generosity and kindness.

[Mike]

Mashika / yes, a line must be drawn. there are people that begrudge you for having things. Some may say regarding the homeless, hey you don't know their story why they are homeless , how the have lost everything etc,

well, people don't know my story, how I have what I have by sticking with it, getting up everyday and applying myself , working hard , seeking knowledge and trying to be a good soul etc

the story needs to be heard both ways. no one should judge anyone and the only time i will begrudge those who have, is if they lack manners, compassion generosity and kindness.


nailed it Doug. and the fact is, anyone that does those things - getting up early, applying oneself, working hard, seeking knowledge - won't he homeless!:) not if they don't want to be. it sounds cliche, but it's cliche in the best of ways because it's all true. it may not be easy, but it's pretty simple.

everyone falls on hard times. that's life. and if that happens, accept any help that is extended your way. take all the help you can get! but while one is accepting that help, there is a moral obligation to be consciously improving oneself and moving towards self-sufficiency. that's how we honor those that are helping us, and it's also how we honor ourselves. to take advantage of the help and make no effort to work on oneself is a great karmic sin against oneself and the helper, in my opinion. it dishonors you, them, and life itself.

I write this because, back home in NY anyway, i saw the same homeless folks day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year. although I'm getting a bit more "conservative" as I get older, I've always been sort of a "bleeding heart lefty"; for years I would give money to these homeless folks. I was an easy touch. I felt for them. And I'd still give to them occasionally as the years went on (Catholic guilt maybe lol) but not nearly as much as I did in the earlier years. And it's all because this sense of being taken advantage of slowly began to erode my compassion and empathy.

The majority of the homeless folks I saw were making no effort to get out of that situation. when you rely on other people for too long, it becomes something like a disease in the sense that you begin to feel entitled to their help. and when it no longer arrives, or when it no longer arrives as often you get bitter and resentful and nihilistic. those are the big clues that you've fallen way off the rails and need to get your **** together. i'm not preaching from the pulpit - ive never been homeless but ive taken advantage of help much longer than i should, so i know the symptoms.

[rgray222]

Mashika   /  yes,  a line must be drawn.  there are people that begrudge you for having things.   Some may say regarding the homeless,  hey you don't know their story why they are homeless , how the have lost everything etc,

I think when someone has lost everything (family ties & worldly possessions) what we are failing to understand is that they somehow lost or never had their mental health. Many people become homeless because of addiction but that in itself is also a mental disease. For those that are not addicted and they find themselves on the street for any prolonged time they (I believe) have lost their ability to cope with the world.

It is extremely difficult to understand mental illness. In the overall scope of health very little research, effort and resources have been put into mental disorders.

Many times we are dealing with someone that sounds normal, looks normal but does not give us a normal response that we are accustomed to. You can not and should not expect a rational response from an irrational person.

One of the most difficult task that we are faced with when we are confronted with someone with mild mental illness is understanding their response to our words are not typical. We need to put this in the front of our minds and process their words differently. If you suspect that someone has a mild form of mental disease because of their circumstances and your response is confusion or even anger then you have not processed all the information you in your possession correctly. This is an extremely hard thing to do, it takes concentration, understanding and awareness. Even when you start understanding this it is particularly hard to do overtime when you have repeated contact with the same person.

I know I have said the same thing a few times here and that is intentional. It is just a very hard thing for "normal" people to understand.

Also, I am not trying to derail this topic and make it about mental illness it is just so misunderstood and it is a major component of homelessness.
R 

[thepainterdoug]

I get that RGRAY 222 . and yes we speak amongst ourselves in all accounts as if we are all mentally well. What does that mean??
I'm not sure ,but perhaps mentally capable as with the masses etc.

again, I look to the hard reality of nature. in the animal world, things are taken care of in a way that we would feel is very hard and cruel. but we give that name, that judgement to it.

Regardless ,we have not constructed a society that cares for others as we ourselves want to be cared for.

[Caliban]

I get that RGRAY 222 . and yes we speak amongst ourselves in all accounts as if we are all mentally well. What does that mean??
I'm not sure ,but perhaps mentally capable as with the masses etc.

again, I look to the hard reality of nature. in the animal world, things are taken care of in a way that we would feel is very hard and cruel. but we give that name, that judgement to it.

Regardless ,we have not constructed a society that cares for others as we ourselves want to be cared for.

That's true, Doug, life in Nature can seem very cruel to us, we call it cruel. But even the animals surprise us with their compassion and fellow-creature-care. See the elephants pushing/pulling one of their kids out of a ditch on the Animals Are Magical thread. (Also, humans digging out a little elephant, same thread). Also cross-species, the cat saving the baby from falling down the stairs. Mind-blowing.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106567-Animals-are-Magical&p=1323024#post1323024

I think some of the homeless may not really want to be here anymore and are just kinda waiting it out. Remember the business world drop-outs boozing it away on the Bowery in the '50s? You don't think men and women from that same world still drop out and give up, disgusted? And should we judge them for that? I sometimes think if I were a physician and diagnosed a patient with some "terminal" illness, I would hope I'd have the heart and cojones to talk to them about death--to frankly ask them "Do you want to live--really want to live?"

Compassion is a mystery unto itself.

[rgray222]

I get that RGRAY 222 . and yes we speak amongst ourselves in all accounts as if we are all mentally well. What does that mean??
I'm not sure ,but perhaps mentally capable as with the masses etc.

again, I look to the hard reality of nature. in the animal world, things are taken care of in a way that we would feel is very hard and cruel. but we give that name, that judgement to it.

Regardless ,we have not constructed a society that cares for others as we ourselves want to be cared for.

Hi Doug
I apologize if you found my post objectionable. It truly was not meant to be offensive in any way whatsoever.

Mental illness and homelessness is a topic near and dear to my heart. I have a sister that has been diagnosed with acute paranoia and schizophrenia. That said she holds down a full-time job, drives goes to church on Sundays and even does some charity work.  No one is quite sure what triggered this behaviour, it was most likely the simultaneous death of our parents and a nasty divorce that she went through at the same time. The trauma of these events presumably triggered PTSD, regardless, in one fell swoop, she found herself homeless, confused and destitute. Without getting into too much detail my brothers and I eventually managed to install her in a nice house so she has a place to call home with no worries about rent or mortgage payments.

I was completely unprepared to deal with her. To this day I a reluctant participant in her life. It is not because I don't love her it is because I do. It is just too difficult to be around someone you care about and feel so helpless. I had to learn how to process her not so typical responses to normal conversation. Many times she would say something that would trigger anger in those on the receiving end. I am still learning and at times not doing a very good job of it.

She believes in her heart that you should share whatever you have with the less fortunate. She does not comprehend why people should have more than they need, this goes for money, cars, clothes, computers, etc. She does live as she sees the world. She has brought homeless people to her house for a meal and a shower. She has put homeless people up for weeks at a time. She frequently will go without so others don't. She does some charity work with the church and donates money when she only has a few dollars in her pocket. When she has donated, given away or simply spent all her money she will make sure that her cat has food before she does. I am not saying my sister or my behaviour towards her is right or wrong. It just is what it is.

I was reluctant to post this information but after giving it some consideration it may help others to understand how and why at least one person became homeless. It may also give a little insight as to why their family members are reluctant participants in their lives. 

My post #43 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109126-A-homeless-drifter-in-my-town&p=1323061&viewfull=1#post1323061) was written as advice to others that may have contact with a homeless person that is suffering. From the outside, all may look well but I assure you there is something going on. Respect, patience and kindness go a long way. Again apologies if my post seemed harsh in any way.

[Innocent Warrior]

I don’t care what caused a person to be homeless, whether it’s through no fault of their own or whether they messed up somehow, whether it’s by choice or not. It’s their life, that’s nobody else’s business.

I also don’t care if they appreciate it or not when I give them something. I once gave 50 dollars to a man who was busking for money. I had watched him days before, he was obviously hungry and had nothing but a guitar. I watched him play his guitar, scrape enough coins together to buy a burger and then he scoffed it down on the cement steps outside of the shop.

He was beaming when I gave him the money when I next saw him and then insisted he play me a song, then he proceeded to play a crappy song that he seemed to make up on the fly and it was about him being gay. In his mind it seemed more likely I wanted something from him than it being given to him out of kindness.

I’ve handed a packet of cigarettes to a woman going through the ashtrays for butts, she didn’t look up, just took them and walked off.

Whatever restores a little dignity, makes their life just a little easier that day, and sends the message that this world isn’t completely heartless, I’ll do, no conditions. It’s just money and stuff, I have enough, and it’s nothing compared to a human heart.

[TomKat]

I’ve handed a packet of cigarettes to a woman going through the ashtrays for butts, she didn’t look up, just took them and walked off.


Some of them seem to be operating at an animal level.

[thepainterdoug]

RGRAY

IM SURPRISED! i didn't find your response offensive at all. I agreed with you. so NO APOLOGY NEEDED!!
I apologize for wording an unclear response if thats what you gleaned from it.

and Innocent Warrior, exactly! Totally agree.