The Underworld

[Mike]

So the underworld, archetypally speaking, is a place of chaos. It's where we find ourselves when we are troubled or unsettled or reeling a bit from some trauma. It's a place of disorder.

We often find ourselves there; it's unavoidable. You may visit a dozen times on a daily basis, dipping your toe in and then resurfacing as you reestablish order and emerge having strengthened yourself from the visit.

Sometimes our visits are longer. It may be that something dramatic has happened in our lives, like the death of a loved one. Or perhaps we have a let a small nuisance fester, and having let it fester it has now become a small tragedy, and then it has morphed into hell. Refusal to look at the underworld squarely with mind, body and soul can send you to hell. Don't let tragedies turn into hell.

Tragedies are unavoidable, and you will find yourself in the underworld during your life no matter what you do or don't do, but having dealt with these tragedies sufficiently you expand your capacity for controversy, and you get stronger. Essentially, you pay for your growth in pain and suffering, and the underworld rewards you with strength and an inner knowing that should you see that situation again, you can deal with it effectively. It's how we grow and evolve. Trips to the underworld often wound us, but having gotten stronger from them our wounds scar over, and those scars represent strength and courage and fortitude.

The underworld is implacable. It cannot be negotiated with. But a whole movement of thought has sprung up in an attempt to do just that. It's called postmodernism.

Postmodernism denies that objective realities exist. It masquerades as a progressive philosophy, but what it really attempts to do is provide a rationalization for people to avoid reality. In other words, avoid any sort of discomfort...or the underworld, basically.

Enter victimhood culture, which is one pretty insidious manifestation of postmodernism. Victimhood culture manifests itself in mainstream culture mostly in matters of race, trans issues, and gender issues. And therein lies its postmodern genius; cloaking itself in lofty self-righteousness makes it hard to address without being labeled a racist, transphobe, or misogynist. It's a clever mother f#cker.

Victimhood culture empowers victims for the sake of being victims. It attempts to keep wounds open for the sake of having wounds to point to as an excuse to avoid reality...as an excuse to avoid the underworld, or anything that might make someone even the least bit unsettled or uncomfortable. Having not faced the underworld, our capacity for controversy withers and shrinks, and we get weaker and weaker and weaker...all under the guise of politically correct "safe spaces".

Weakness multiplies exponentially, and as you continually resist reality and refuse to engage your fears, your ability to maintain even under the least bit of pressure wanes. Your world gets smaller and smaller and smaller as the the list of things that frighten you grows...and one day you find yourself a housebound hermit too terrified to leave your front door.

One very profound thing that was addressed in this video is our younger generations lack of physical activity, due to obsession with technology and so forth. When we are outdoors, on a playground, hiking, running, playing sports...we know right away when we've made a mistake because the consequence is immediate. When we fall and hurt our knee we feel it. When we slip and tumble down a mountain we feel it. When we get tackled we feel it. That's objective reality. It's become easy for our millennials to buy into the doctrine of objective reality being a social construct because A) they're not engaging in reality, they're avoiding it, and B) they're socializing online all the time, and that is actually a social construct.

This video is fantastic. It addresses victimhood culture as it applies in matters of race and gender and lgbtq stuff. Fittingly, it takes place on a college campus, where these issues are most blatant. It's just an excellent discussion and I couldn't recommend it more. It's Dr.Bret Weinstein, his wife Dr. Heather Heying, Dr. Christina Hoff Sommers, with Dr Peter Boghossian acting as moderator.

It might be fun to unpack all this in some detail if enough interest is shown in doing so.
-xUisjHoB_8

[TomKat]

So the underworld, archetypally speaking, is a place of chaos. It's where we find ourselves when we are troubled or unsettled or reeling a bit from some trauma. It's a place of disorder.

Certainly not the shamanic underworld. What underworld are you speaking of?

[Mike]

So the underworld, archetypally speaking, is a place of chaos. It's where we find ourselves when we are troubled or unsettled or reeling a bit from some trauma. It's a place of disorder.

Certainly not the shamanic underworld. What underworld are you speaking of?


the one you just quoted:)

(psst, it's a metaphor)

[enfoldedblue]

My personal experience of the underworld would lead me to describe it differently. For me the key word would not be chaotic...though at times it may present that way. For me the key word is overwhelming fear. Sometimes it may apear barren and quiet..... but overwhelmingly oppressive due to the surrounding heavy dense energy of fear.

I have only 2 times been in what i would describe as the underworld and both times were in periods i would describe as dark nights of the soul . Immersed in this space i struggled to see beyond the lens of fear that completely colored my perception of reality.

In my last experience i found among the darkness a fine golden thread of love. Clutching this thread i was slowly led out if the darkneess as my perspective gradually shifted back from fear to love.

[TomKat]

My personal experience of the underworld would lead me to describe it differently. For me the key word would not be chaotic...though at times it may present that way. For me the key word is overwhelming fear. Sometimes it may apear barren and quiet..... but overwhelmingly oppressive due to the surrounding heavy dense energy of fear.

I have only 2 times been in what i would describe as the underworld and both times were in periods i would describe as dark nights of the soul . Immersed in this space i struggled to see beyond the lens of fear that completely colored my perception of reality.

In my last experience i found among the darkness a fine golden thread of love. Clutching this thread i was slowly led out if the darkneess as my perspective gradually shifted back from fear to love.

My experiences in the Underworld were with shamanic teacher Michael Harner. It was a place of power.

[Baby Steps]

Love this

For me it would the (imaginary) realm of fear, loneliness and separation from higher self that drove me to attempt to reoccupy the womb for so long.

The idea reminds us of the fact that life is an integrated process and concepts of dark and light are of limited value

Imagine a group of kids doing a cross country run. At the front are people who are optimistic and inspiring who encourage them onwards.

At the back are a couple of teachers with sticks who whip the legs of the stragglers. It would be an abstract process to label the inspirers or the teachers as either dark or light. Notice that all are running in the same direction to a known destination !

Denying the role of the teachers or attempting to insulate oneself or run from their lessons is not the path of growth, but increasingly civilisation appears to require protection from life’s realities. Pointless.

[RogeRio]

It was a place of power.

Yes, It is !! .. Without the underworld (archetype), life doesn't work.

from the greco-roman myths, it was represented by Hades (pluto), whose final word is stronger than that of Zeus and Poseidon together.

from a modern city point of view, it was represented by the (underground) Sewer, which if not well treated and channeled, it can cause a city-wide collapse.

from a Soul (matrix qualities), it was represented by Fear (primary & secondary), where the primary fear hides behind the secondary, so as not to be easily detected, nor directly observed.

underworld (archetype) can be seen as chaos because its usually unconscious, but actually, without It the (hard) transformation of things would not happen.

the example of Fenix that is reborn from its own ashes is an archetype that can be studied in this context

[wttah]

Hi guys. (First post.)

The Underworld may not be metaphorical or mythical place

There is a "place" I often go, one might call it the Underworld. One can "project" or "remote view" these places and wander around.

I like this place simply because it is very quiet, silent one might say. A refuge from the psychic chatter "up here".

It is a barren plain surrounded by tall glassy see through mountains dusted sulfur yellow. There is a black lake filled with the fluids of decay and you can make out the remains of people and other Beings.

Looking upwards the sky is black and a grid work of yellow lines cross-crosses the sky. In places the grid work bends down in square box shapes.

These boxes that hang down from the sky contain the hells below churches and temples.

Something terrible happened here long ago. The yellow grid work is not natural. In a way the grid separates the surface world of humanity and this world below. This grid keeps the dead and pollution very close to the surface where people live.

If I were to make an educated guess; I would say the grid has clogged the earth's plumbing and the dead can no longer return to the earth. Looking at the mountains one can see they should glow brightly with the spiritual light of sulfur. That is material sulfur as a Light Bearer in the sense of Rudolf Steiner's lectures on Agriculture (Bio-dynamic Agriculture).

Another educated guess is that someone long ago built the grid for a purpose. But like a lot of engineering projects such as dams and hydro-electric schemes, there are consequences to the natural environment. The church's and temple's spiritual construction might not be the same if this grid was not present.

But that is just the view from below looking up.

[TomKat]

Hi guys. (First post.)

The Underworld may not be metaphorical or mythical place

There is a "place" I often go, one might call it the Underworld. One can "project" or "remote view" these places and wander around.

I like this place simply because it is very quiet, silent one might say. A refuge from the psychic chatter "up here".

It is a barren plain surrounded by tall glassy see through mountains dusted sulfur yellow. There is a black lake filled with the fluids of decay and you can make out the remains of people and other Beings.

Looking upwards the sky is black and a grid work of yellow lines cross-crosses the sky. In places the grid work bends down in square box shapes.

These boxes that hang down from the sky contain the hells below churches and temples.

Something terrible happened here long ago. The yellow grid work is not natural. In a way the grid separates the surface world of humanity and this world below. This grid keeps the dead and pollution very close to the surface where people live.

If I were to make an educated guess; I would say the grid has clogged the earth's plumbing and the dead can no longer return to the earth. Looking at the mountains one can see they should glow brightly with the spiritual light of sulfur. That is material sulfur as a Light Bearer in the sense of Rudolf Steiner's lectures on Agriculture (Bio-dynamic Agriculture).

Another educated guess is that someone long ago built the grid for a purpose. But like a lot of engineering projects such as dams and hydro-electric schemes, there are consequences to the natural environment. The church's and temple's spiritual construction might not be the same if this grid was not present.

But that is just the view from below looking up.

Welcome to Avalon!
The barren plain sounds familiar, maybe something Castaneda described in one of his visions. Or maybe Red Elk.
I'd be interested in anything else you've seen on other levels of existence!

[wttah]

Thanks for the welcome TomKat.

I remember reading Castenada in the seventies, and I've wondered about a link here. Though I didn't get beaten up by giant bugs. "Red Elk" I have never read about. Actually I haven't read a book for nearly twenty years now. Except a 1913 dictionary front to back.

The place is interesting for a few reasons.

* It is navigational three dimensions. The containers of hells hanging in the sky. Those particular hells belong to European churches so a lot of history. Those churches and cathedrals were probably consecrated in ways the church of the time and which we don't understand now Plus it is said that churches were built over sacred sites as a conversion process.

* These are localised hells in the landscape, probably networked with geomantic lines.

* Everything seems to have stopped there, not much works. Though you can follow the water to places where very ancient diseases are. Syphilis and Gonorrhoea being two examples. Those are bacteria, oddly enough you don't find viral disease there, those are all above the grid in the sky.

* The temples of India are also built in accordance to this observation. Patala, the Hindu underworld is above the grid. Both the churches and temples look like they are designed like a person (charkra(?)) buried in the ground up to the waist. Dunno why.

So, just from observation and trying to figure things out, above the grid looks like architecture and therefore artificial. Below the grid looks natural.

That the bacterial diseases are found above and below the grid and viruses above the grid only is interesting.


:) It is an interesting study.

[wttah]

An after thought re my last post. Maybe clarifies.

What I described as an Underworld doesn't really change how the above grid spiritual worlds work. Just that it suggests there are things outside of orthodox spiritual reality. That there is more to the world.

There are layers below. The lowest one I know of is is a place with a milky red atmosphere. The only thing I ever saw there is a lidless stone sarcophagus like the one in the pyramid photos.

The philosophies that have their underworlds are constructed above the yellow grid. Above humanity's realm is a delicate blue grid by the way. Not sure what that one does, but humanity seems restricted to between. Maybe a "sandbox" perhaps.

There is a link to the viral illnesses though. I suspect it has to do with a means of creating collective consciousnesses. Not necessarily a bad thing. Just the old way of engineering consciousness is my guess.

[TomKat]

Thanks for the welcome TomKat.

I remember reading Castenada in the seventies, and I've wondered about a link here. Though I didn't get beaten up by giant bugs. "Red Elk" I have never read about. Actually I haven't read a book for nearly twenty years now. Except a 1913 dictionary front to back.

The place is interesting for a few reasons.

* It is navigational three dimensions. The containers of hells hanging in the sky. Those particular hells belong to European churches so a lot of history. Those churches and cathedrals were probably consecrated in ways the church of the time and which we don't understand now Plus it is said that churches were built over sacred sites as a conversion process.

* These are localised hells in the landscape, probably networked with geomantic lines.

* Everything seems to have stopped there, not much works. Though you can follow the water to places where very ancient diseases are. Syphilis and Gonorrhoea being two examples. Those are bacteria, oddly enough you don't find viral disease there, those are all above the grid in the sky.

* The temples of India are also built in accordance to this observation. Patala, the Hindu underworld is above the grid. Both the churches and temples look like they are designed like a person (charkra(?)) buried in the ground up to the waist. Dunno why.

So, just from observation and trying to figure things out, above the grid looks like architecture and therefore artificial. Below the grid looks natural.

That the bacterial diseases are found above and below the grid and viruses above the grid only is interesting.


:) It is an interesting study.

Very interesting. Reminds me of Monroe's "belief system territories."
I posted this awhile back, mentions the late Red Elk, who you can probably still find on youtube.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104833-Earth-s-Levels-and-the-Hollow-Earth&p=1270807#post1270807

[wttah]

Thanks TomKat, I'll have a look at Red Elk.

I'm familiar with the Monroe work with the afterlife and parallels are there. Enough to wonder if they are working the same ground from the accounts. Though we would probably draw different conclusions in some ways due to different backgrounds.

Though horrifying to most folks, especially at this time, the disease aspect is what interests me in many ways. Mostly because they are ancient Beings and from what I have seen of them, I think they were engineered in ancient times. A pattern that seems to be repeating with modern bioengineering.

The reservoirs below cities where mass graves were dug during epidemics long ago, one can still find the consciousnesses having a detrimental effect on the living above. If those places can be resolved it should make a big difference spiritually to the city folks.

Those reservoirs are above the Underworld one would say, yet my strong suspicion is that the plumbing that clears the earth of miasms is clogged or broken.

A parallel is witha household septic system. If the pipes are clogged foul substances flood under our house. Another parallel is when our auric outflow is sluggish and doesn't expel pathogens and toxins as it should.

It should be able to be fixed at a city level, but one would have to fix the plumbing too. No one wants to go to these places unsurprisingly, so there is very little information available. One must work it out nevertheless.

One thing though, belief does play a big part. American hells below their churches are simple constructs compared to Europe. People who find themselves in those places seem to be stuck because someone told them they were going to hell for their sins (mistakes). Like people who died by drowning at sea, you just have to point at the way out for them to understand how to get out. Trapped by belief.

[RogeRio]

There are layers below. The lowest one I know of is is a place with a milky red atmosphere. The only thing I ever saw there is a lidless stone sarcophagus like the one in the pyramid photos.


I preferred not to criticize your first post because there is consistency in your descriptions, and I also thought was good brought new elements to this discussion.

although I may not be sure, what you described as Underworld, it seems (to me more) like a region of Limbo that even we could call Interdimensional (between layers), or maybe by Low Astral, which relatively still be an Underworld from the astral planes perspective.

the important thing is that you know projections (of consciousness) and can bring us information about what you know, what you saw and experienced there.

Welcome to the forum and into this discussion. It's nice to have you here, with us.:welcome:

PS - Low Astral can be predominantly dark, brown, orange red, even yellow (sulfur). High Astral can be predominantly bright, yellow (fire), green, blue, indigo, violet. The forms (thoughts+feelings) are similar to what we see here in 3D, and there is a very direct relationship between them, as being a counterpart of 3D matter.

[Mike]

The underworld that I'm referring to is a metaphorical reference to something that is very real, but isn't necessarily a place. It's a state of mind.

It's often represented in great literature and art as being a place, because that's how we symbolically explain our deepest emotions and desires and mental states back to ourselves in 3D.

There are, it seems, on the other hand, very real places spiritual seekers and spiritual explorers have discovered that aren't too pleasant. Sometimes it's called "the lower astral". I'm a big fan of Castaneda's books as well, and there were some not so pleasant, very real seeming places described in those books.

So there is the proximal kind of hell that we experience here and there throughout our lives when we are in chaos or emotionally disturbed or mentally unbalanced, and the literal hell that is usually associated with the afterlife or discovered thru some kind of ritual or practice designed to leave the physical body.

I'm talking about the proximal underworld.

"Visits" there can be brutal, but they also offer the wonderful gift of expanding our capacity for controversy. The idea is to face our worst fears forthrightly with courage and strength, and in doing so we get stronger.

For some people a trip to the underworld may just be caused by a routine doctor's appointment. Perhaps it would cause someone great fear and apprehension. But having gone to the doctor, instead of avoiding it, this hypothetical person gathers strength having faced a fear while conquering it.

There is a wide spectrum of things that can send us to the underworld, ranging from the most mundane to the most dramatic.

What I'm observing in today's world is a growing number of people who resist the underworld with all their might. You will find yourself there regardless, but the resistance to anything that might make one unsettled or uncomfortable in even the smallest of ways is all being encouraged and justified by sick notions of politically correct 'safe spaces' and flaky philosophies such as postmodernism. As a result, western civilization is rotting and getting weaker and weaker.

The video in my original post is highly recommended

[TomKat]

The underworld that I'm referring to is a metaphorical reference to something that is very real, but isn't necessarily a place. It's a state of mind.

A state of mind is also a place. While your physical body is alive, you can call it a state of mind. But when you die you end up in your state of mind's corresponding place.

[Mike]

The underworld that I'm referring to is a metaphorical reference to something that is very real, but isn't necessarily a place. It's a state of mind.

A state of mind is also a place. While your physical body is alive, you can call it a state of mind. But when you die you end up in your state of mind's corresponding place.



Ok, fair enough.

Just for clarity then, I'm talking about when we're alive

[RogeRio]

universe is mental, so mind place is everywhere to be everything.

from Kybalion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kybalion), first principle, embodies the idea that "All is Mind." Everything that happens has to be a result of a mental state which precedes it. For anything to exist, thoughts had to form first, which then form physical reality or manifestation. "Your thoughts are seeds, plant positive seeds in your mind garden."

this principle is universally accepted as correct, so alive or not the principle applies

for example:
expanding capacity for controversy causes fragmentation (to Divide and Conquer ?)


face our worst fears forthrightly with courage and strength, and in doing so we get stronger.the thought behind "we get stronger" is "Love Our Enemy", and not controversy, unless one think that Love is a Controverse way, So, in that sense how much expand controversy, how much love (strong) we can get, but even so, this stronger can be Controverse by the nature of the thought-seeded


I'm talking about the proximal underworld.I can be wrong, but seems to me you can be mixing subconscious with unconscious and referring to both as Underworld, so "proximal underworld" could be only the Subconscious (like a subworld)

[wttah]

The underworld that I'm referring to is a metaphorical reference to something that is very real, but isn't necessarily a place. It's a state of mind.

It's often represented in great literature and art as being a place, because that's how we symbolically explain our deepest emotions and desires and mental states back to ourselves in 3D.

There are, it seems, on the other hand, very real places spiritual seekers and spiritual explorers have discovered that aren't too pleasant. Sometimes it's called "the lower astral". I'm a big fan of Castaneda's books as well, and there were some not so pleasant, very real seeming places described in those books.

So there is the proximal kind of hell that we experience here and there throughout our lives when we are in chaos or emotionally disturbed or mentally unbalanced, and the literal hell that is usually associated with the afterlife or discovered thru some kind of ritual or practice designed to leave the physical body.

I'm talking about the proximal underworld.

"Visits" there can be brutal, but they also offer the wonderful gift of expanding our capacity for controversy. The idea is to face our worst fears forthrightly with courage and strength, and in doing so we get stronger.

For some people a trip to the underworld may just be caused by a routine doctor's appointment. Perhaps it would cause someone great fear and apprehension. But having gone to the doctor, instead of avoiding it, this hypothetical person gathers strength having faced a fear while conquering it.

There is a wide spectrum of things that can send us to the underworld, ranging from the most mundane to the most dramatic.

What I'm observing in today's world is a growing number of people who resist the underworld with all their might. You will find yourself there regardless, but the resistance to anything that might make one unsettled or uncomfortable in even the smallest of ways is all being encouraged and justified by sick notions of politically correct 'safe spaces' and flaky philosophies such as postmodernism. As a result, western civilization is rotting and getting weaker and weaker.

The video in my original post is highly recommended

Ahh, I see now.

Well, here's an insight that might be relevant; "optical based feed-back loops".

I'll explain.

A "spirit" once came too close and bumped into me. She got within perhaps twelve or so inches (300mm) to my face. The odd thing was she caused a localized convex distortion in my vision. Like an invisible membrane was pushed inwards towards me. With a puzzled look on her face she withdrew and the distortion disappeared.

I've done a lot of work trying to figure out this "membrane" that surrounds the body.

I understand that there are a lot of "membrane" layers that probably extend a fair distance from the body. This membrane seem to follow the rules of optics, especially mirrors. The inner surface seems to act as a two way mirror partially reflecting thoughts, feelings, memories, and so on back towards the person. Studying trauma in the deceased, their traumatic experience causes deep scaring of the membrane. Strong thoughts and feelings over time also leave their impression, so too education and especially dogma. I think these things, when ingrained, may cause a distortion in the self image that can effect people badly. Positive thought and happiness would have an effect also I would think. The trauma scars are the hardest to deal with.

I am wondering if optical based feed-back might be causative when issues have to be worked out as you describe in your post. I think it possible.

Other Beings also have the membrane, I understand that they can see our inner thoughts and feelings that flow outwards, along with our projected image - the person we pretend to be. They can tell the difference.

Humans I think, are not really aware of how this membrane works; the principals. It was new to me and I would never have known if it were not for that "accident".

"They", on the other hand are very aware and are experts at projecting appearance and controlling what they allow others to see. I once asked the "spirit" that bumped into me to show me her true form. She obliged by changing her appearance randomly a few times. I got the message, so I settle for what I see. Taste is a better way to recognize her.

The idea that Self has layers of two-way mirrors takes a bit of getting used to.

[wttah]

There are layers below. The lowest one I know of is is a place with a milky red atmosphere. The only thing I ever saw there is a lidless stone sarcophagus like the one in the pyramid photos.


I preferred not to criticize your first post because there is consistency in your descriptions, and I also thought was good brought new elements to this discussion.

although I may not be sure, what you described as Underworld, it seems (to me more) like a region of Limbo that even we could call Interdimensional (between layers), or maybe by Low Astral, which relatively still be an Underworld from the astral planes perspective.

the important thing is that you know projections (of consciousness) and can bring us information about what you know, what you saw and experienced there.

Welcome to the forum and into this discussion. It's nice to have you here, with us.:welcome:

PS - Low Astral can be predominantly dark, brown, orange red, even yellow (sulfur). High Astral can be predominantly bright, yellow (fire), green, blue, indigo, violet. The forms (thoughts+feelings) are similar to what we see here in 3D, and there is a very direct relationship between them, as being a counterpart of 3D matter.

'day RogeRio and thanks for the welcome.

Well, what I describe I call "Underworld" simply because it is under where we live. Like the old Greek concept of Tartarus.

Lower astral? I don't think so because there are very few Beings down there that I have seen. It is the silence that is unique. A total absence of other people's thought and feelings. One is pleasantly (for me) very alone. The place is nothing like the description of the Theosophists, Buddhists or Hindu texts.

Though those descriptions of the lower astral can be found above where humans live, especially the Beings. The horrors generally live along side humans and their new and abandoned settlements. Places like the pyramids where flying things that look like black blankets with four razor sharp long claws on each corner fly about in the tunnels underground. They wrap themselves around you and their claws are painless when they embed in your body. Struggling just deepens the claws. Those places are full of traps.

The parts of the world that humans have access to seem to be mainly above the yellow grid and below a corresponding blue grid higher above in the sky. If I try to move through the yellow grid from above I cannot get through. The blue grid higher up is the same except you get the attention of "Those who watch". I get the impression from them that the grids are "barriers" of some sort, and not just barriers for humans alone.

How I get into the "Underworld" is a knack, I don't know how I do it.

[wttah]

I read your post in the other thread and very interesting in that it describes what I see and deal with. Though I don't really understand the "levels". I found the "levels" of Theosophy and western occultism in general no help at all in navigating "out there". Following networks works much better.

How about I jump over to where your post is and maybe I can help fill in some of the gaps for the lower levels where people are told not to go. The lower levels of religion are not really what we are told they are, nor are the "daemons" when you get to know them (mostly).

[RogeRio]

I read your post in the other thread and very interesting in that it describes what I see and deal with. Though I don't really understand the "levels". I found the "levels" of Theosophy and western occultism in general no help at all in navigating "out there". Following networks works much better.

for tech pourposes, I ask you to see this thread -- 40 BIO ENERGETIC EXERCICES (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108653-40-BIO-ENERGETIC-EXERCICES-to-be-aware-and-awake-about-para-psychism.)
for conceptual pourposes, I ask you to see this post -- Soul, Consciousness and Spirit concepts (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108517-Soul-Consciousness-and-Spirit-concepts-useful-for-common-sense&p=1312832&viewfull=1#post1312832)item (20%) - reurbanization

I think both will help you to understand the kind of approach I can do on these subjects. I use a universalist model intended to be not biased by principle. The informations I give are relatively well filtered out of cults and cultural currents, but harnessing any worth wisdom as a legacy.

follow some personal comments about what you posted this thread:



I understand that there are a lot of "membrane" layers that probably extend a fair distance from the body. This membrane seem to follow the rules of optics, especially mirrors. The inner surface seems to act as a two way mirror partially reflecting thoughts, feelings, memories, and so on back towards the person.OK, membrane can be a useful analogy, but think that word is more related to tissues. In a sense of layers it can represent what you mean, but what you really are discribing it's a kind of "bio-energetic field & surface" like an Aura, so it's an aura membrane or an aura surface.

I think actually, both inner and outer surface seems to act as a mirror, because who can see (or feel) these "electro-magnetic fields", can see your thoughts, feelings, memories, state of health, harmony & disarmony and even who you are as individual. It all depends on the degree of knowledge combined with psychic and para-psychic (individual) skills.



I am wondering if optical based feed-back might be causative when issues have to be worked out as you describe in your post. I think it possible.Optical based feedback is always a analogy related to a observer perspective. About abstract realms it refers to third eye (sixth chakra) that means the eye of clairvoyance, which also works like an sonar (psych & para-psych).



Other Beings also have the membrane, I understand that they can see our inner thoughts and feelings that flow outwards, along with our projected imageYes, all beings have an Aura, indeed even a solid rock have an aura, like an extra-physical counter-part. Thoughts and Feelings are (transparent) translucid qualities of Energetic Bodies forms of (soul-conscienciousness) expression.

While the psych-body is still connected to the energetic body, the individual preserves the (last) appearance of physical body, like a form of "Memories", as an example of "personal legacy".



Humans I think, are not really aware of how this membrane works; the principals.not at all, because there are awakes and sensitives with some (clever) discernment about.



The idea that Self has layers of two-way mirrors takes a bit of getting used to.until one can develop a single one approach (set of paradigms) to work with both sides of the coin, everything is more complicated because it requires a great cognitive effort, not taught to people how to deal with this.

I learned to do a technical approach, because I had to study and practice certain phenomena, just like you are doing and sharing here.



Lower astral? I don't think so because there are very few Beings down there that I have seen.May be a interdimensional place, like a desolate area. Don't see others not implies aren't others over there. Pehaps you need to go beyond this area to understand what place is that more better. Other aproach is while you can not see others there, the others also can not see you, or may see you as harmless to them, probably knowing you are projected (because of silver cord) and not belong to that place.

Astral Planes also works like a mirror (As Above, So Bellow), then we certainly found Low and High places (layers) of all kinds.



Those places are full of trapsYes, it's not places for tourism .. :target:



How I get into the "Underworld" is a knack,I think it's similar (analog) to get into the "Heaven" (paradise), but with the polarity reversed, intentionally or not. The most appropriate knowledge I'm aware is obtained by studying consciential projections, that appears to be like a dream or like near death experience, commonly called Out of Body Experience (OBE, or OOBE).

please, see this post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59056-Going-into-light-after-death...-or-not&p=673370&viewfull=1#post673370) some wise recommendations

I'm a bit familiar with things you said. Maybe we can open a thread to discuss items, like "Those who watch" (as guardians), the grids as "barriers" of some sort, or "experts at projecting appearance and controlling what they allow others to see", among others.

[wttah]

The term "bio-electric" works.

The layers are rather biological in that they are like organic tissue in structure. Living also, a lot like skin in how it functions. It breathes, an inflow and outflow that can get congested and poisoned. A protein like structure too built of sulphur, phosphorous and other "substances" that work in biodynamic (agriculture) ways.

Electric in an odd way. Like electric fields that can create(?) the principals of optics. Sorta like a field that can reflect light. Perhaps a future science there that uses electro magnetism to build structure without the particles of physics.I don't bknow how to describe it in conventional terms.

I can see that. So I think we are on the same page. My home-grown way of perception and rationalisation is different though. But that is just me. There is a structure "out there" that I had to back out of when I read your first two links. It is like a university in it's own infinate closed space. A very human centric place. It reminds me of a "city state" in the old Greek sense, though more-so a place of learning for millions of people and primarily concerned with human progress. Reminds me of a western university, the feeling that is of walking into one for the first time.

The internal structure of the "university" is unique and architectural when compared to what is outside of it. Energies work differently in there when compared to outside.

You're right in saying just because I don't perceive other Beings does not necessarily mean they are not there. I haven't explored the other side of the mountains. I have followed the polluted waterways into the caverns. A cursed folk live there. They emerged to give me two human children. A girl and her little brother, the folk said the children wouldn't last long there and could I take them please.

That place is full of putrid decay, anaerobic rather than aerobic one might suggest. But that is, I am sure, caused by the two grids diverting "lights" such as sulphur from working down there.

Nice kids who look like they are from England and lived during the industrial revolution judging by their clothes. They had congenital syphylis, polio and a few other things that probably killed them. Syphylis was designed to collapse the bio-electric membrane by the way.

Maybe we could open a new thread, I feel like I have derailed here in this one. I'll warn you though I'm fairly pragmatic in how I see things :)

[RogeRio]

I don't bknow how to describe it in conventional terms.

Please, Think About that (analogy):

When you learned to Walk, did you already know how to (conventionally) describe what walking is ?

[wttah]

I don't bknow how to describe it in conventional terms.

Please, Think About that (analogy):

When you learned to Walk, did you already know how to (conventionally) describe what walking is ?

That is so, it is new to my experience and I haven't paid it much attention.

However, one might also say that translating things into speach does not do things justice. It would be better to simply "grok" how things work but "groking" is not conductive to the written forum.

I better understand now why I backed out of that city state I described. It thinks in a scientific way that upsets my stomach. How do I say? Women complain when men undress them with their minds. Scientists can be that way too. I would say; Scientists disect others with their minds. Sorta the same thing. A very unpleasant sensation.

I would never go back into that civilisation because of that.

(Edit)

My apologies, I don't mean to be insulting towards anything or anyone. Just that the scariest places "out there" are the western scientific egreggors(?)/spiritual worlds(?).

I'm much more comfortable in the wilds outside of those places.

[TomKat]

How about I jump over to where your post is and maybe I can help fill in some of the gaps for the lower levels where people are told not to go. The lower levels of religion are not really what we are told they are, nor are the "daemons" when you get to know them (mostly).

Please do!

[wttah]

How about I jump over to where your post is and maybe I can help fill in some of the gaps for the lower levels where people are told not to go. The lower levels of religion are not really what we are told they are, nor are the "daemons" when you get to know them (mostly).

Please do!

Okay, will do so tonight : )