Would God really send people to hell....

[mindbend8r]

I have schizophrenia and that's what the voices tell me. But there are spiritual sources that say there is no hell God sends people to. But then again there are other sources that say a hell exists and people go to it when they die sometimes. Like I don't know if the Vedas can be trusted as a valid spiritual source but the Vedas say there are 7 different hell worlds that people can go to when they die, and also the bible says people can go.

But I'd like to believe that it's not true God wouldn't do that that there is nothing someone can do in life to warrant an eternity of pure horror and suffering for eternity. I know psychics and I've read Dolores cannon material that say when we die we go back to God and are forgiven and if you do terrible things in life that you still have pay for what you did but hell doesn't exist. But how much can they really be believed as trusted material on the subject.

What if God really is a vengeful God and has no mercy on the bad people and tosses them like trash to the pits of hell. Why couldn't there be a God like that. I've seen different near death experiences and while most have people going to heaven there are about 30 % who said they went to hell. Are near death experiences probably the best source material on heaven and hell.

I d like people's different opinions on the subject. Feel free to comment I'm curious what people think on the matter. Thank you

[Rawhide68]

Have you ever tryed to bore down to find out who you are, who you really are ?

Most people are schizophrenic without beeing aware of it.
"God" is not vengeful.

I wish you love and peace !

[Eagle Eye]

Paradise and Hell are already as part of creation, we cannot percieve it well because there are two extreme sides of creation and we are far from them. You are judging the creation without fully understanding it. Do you know the extreme side of evil and the enteties that are part of it? Do you know that there is an army of men and other enteties against all laws of peace and order. They think they can win against God, but God let them in their illusion until a specified time. There is one greatest enemy for mankind, spoken in many scriptures and messengers, but mankind is mostly blind to it because the war is subtle and invisible. That greatest enemy has an army with him, consciously obeying him or unconsciously. Everything was created by God for a purpose, even the most evil of creation. We have to be careful in our path,to be aware of God and to try to understand the creation, also the laws and rules that leads to peace, order and balance.

[Peter UK]

I've seen different near death experiences and while most have people going to heaven there are about 30 % who said they went to hell. Are near death experiences probably the best source material on heaven and hell.


I think the notion of self-created worlds or states of being is a far more appropriate description and would not exonerate us so easily or allow us to project blame elsewhere. They can still be referenced as heaven and hells but in reality that changes nothing.

It's the kind of paradigm that the Buddhists would recognise as well as other traditions.

[TomKat]

I have schizophrenia and that's what the voices tell me. But there are spiritual sources that say there is no hell God sends people to. But then again there are other sources that say a hell exists and people go to it when they die sometimes. Like I don't know if the Vedas can be trusted as a valid spiritual source but the Vedas say there are 7 different hell worlds that people can go to when they die, and also the bible says people can go.

But I'd like to believe that it's not true God wouldn't do that that there is nothing someone can do in life to warrant an eternity of pure horror and suffering for eternity. I know psychics and I've read Dolores cannon material that say when we die we go back to God and are forgiven and if you do terrible things in life that you still have pay for what you did but hell doesn't exist. But how much can they really be believed as trusted material on the subject.

What if God really is a vengeful God and has no mercy on the bad people and tosses them like trash to the pits of hell. Why couldn't there be a God like that. I've seen different near death experiences and while most have people going to heaven there are about 30 % who said they went to hell. Are near death experiences probably the best source material on heaven and hell.

I d like people's different opinions on the subject. Feel free to comment I'm curious what people think on the matter. Thank you

Life force tends to fragment in this life, and parts might be in a hell of some kind. It's a matter of self-gathering and dissolving the barriers between soul fragments, to become fully present here in the body. It's done by repetitive inner perception and feel.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

No, the God of my understanding would not create a hell and send people there.
But we may be powerful enough to create one.

The God of my understanding is a God of pure love. It wants me to be happy and feel good but allows us to choose differently.

[Pam]

I have schizophrenia and that's what the voices tell me. But there are spiritual sources that say there is no hell God sends people to. But then again there are other sources that say a hell exists and people go to it when they die sometimes. Like I don't know if the Vedas can be trusted as a valid spiritual source but the Vedas say there are 7 different hell worlds that people can go to when they die, and also the bible says people can go.

But I'd like to believe that it's not true God wouldn't do that that there is nothing someone can do in life to warrant an eternity of pure horror and suffering for eternity. I know psychics and I've read Dolores cannon material that say when we die we go back to God and are forgiven and if you do terrible things in life that you still have pay for what you did but hell doesn't exist. But how much can they really be believed as trusted material on the subject.

What if God really is a vengeful God and has no mercy on the bad people and tosses them like trash to the pits of hell. Why couldn't there be a God like that. I've seen different near death experiences and while most have people going to heaven there are about 30 % who said they went to hell. Are near death experiences probably the best source material on heaven and hell.

I d like people's different opinions on the subject. Feel free to comment I'm curious what people think on the matter. Thank you

I have spent my life contemplating questions like the one you ask. Here is my conclusion. I am on this planet at this time and I'm in the body that I have. I have spent so much time trying to mentally go to some other place, places like "enlightenment", places where my consciousness would be different and easier to deal with. One by one I have laid them all aside. This place, right here, right now is what I have to deal with, like it or not. Sometimes that is so much easier than trying to get to all those other places.Sometimes it's harder.

My favorite book is still the Bhagavad Gita and I recognize the beauty and wisdom of it. I know others have become enlightened, but it ain't going to happen to this schmuck at this time. The spiritual gift I was given was to finally see myself pretty clearly and what an eye opener..all the defenses, all the rigidness, all the righteous indignation.. that was my hell and it was right here in this life time and in this body..sorry if I don't make a bit of sense.

[Peter UK]

I have spent my life contemplating questions like the one you ask. Here is my conclusion. I am on this planet at this time and I'm in the body that I have. I have spent so much time trying to mentally go to some other place, places like "enlightenment", places where my consciousness would be different and easier to deal with. One by one I have laid them all aside. This place, right here, right now is what I have to deal with, like it or not. Sometimes that is so much easier than trying to get to all those other places.Sometimes it's harder.

My favorite book is still the Bhagavad Gita and I recognize the beauty and wisdom of it. I know others have become enlightened, but it ain't going to happen to this schmuck at this time. The spiritual gift I was given was to finally see myself pretty clearly and what an eye opener..all the defenses, all the rigidness, all the righteous indignation.. that was my hell and it was right here in this life time and in this body..sorry if I don't make a bit of sense.

Hi Pam,

Lovely post, absolutely no reason why it wouldn't make sense. :flower:

Could you elaborate on why you love the Bhagavad Gita, it's an amazing work.

[aoibhghaire]

I concur with Iceberg and Ron Mauer Sr

However, my opinions may be controversial and uncomfortable for some.

We are souls having a physical experience that isn’t provided for in the realm where we came from.

This experience is important for our growth, because that opportunity doesn’t take place in the other realm. We have the free will of creating either our hell or heaven here on Earth. These are the illusions we can create leaving us with an embedded perception that becomes the belief. Either illusion can migrate to after physical death. In other words we can create the hell or the heaven after we leave this physical state. The good news is there isn't a fixed destiny for either state. This is the importance while you are here now to go through experiences on Earth to wake up. Its a process of education on this physical realm.

We are therefore provided for a dichotomy of dark and light here on Earth on numerous occasions. This means providing the simultaneous experience of pure love and exquisite beauty coupled with violence, hatred and destruction. This truly is a unique set-up. There are teams, multiple beings, human and those not from this world, whose sole purpose is to work together to provide this dichotomy to the souls who come to Earth. If that wasn't the case why are we here. You will learn nothing if you have come here as a perfect physical being.

These are the opportunities we create; however, free will dictates whether a soul chooses to use these gifts or not.
What each soul is presented is an interference (appearance) by design. Awakened individuals find it extremely disconcerting that beings would ‘interfere’ with the free flow of life. Quite the contrary; there have been ever so many times that this ‘interference’ is allowed by the whole purpose of its design.
The roles of these teams of beings whose mission is to create the illusion of bi-polar division; the light being no more important than the darkness. Servants of humanity who would as frequently antagonize or stir the pot, as create the miraculous moments, are all over the planet, guaranteeing that an incarnate soul can have the opportunity to live what they have come here for.

It is human nature to wish for world peace, to pray for unity, to hope for the world to live as One. That’s not the purpose of this planet and what it has to offer. It is also the reason that religions come and go, ‘Saviors’ are created, Holy texts are enshrined and humans are always looking forward to a time when there might be Peace on Earth. What they fail to realize is that there has never been total Peace nor will there ever be. Just as the species has never managed to annihilate itself, because ’Others’ won’t allow it, this schoolhouse for hearty souls promises the experience of duality. Duality or separation from the Source of All That Is, is the mythology that spirits come here to engage in. The opportunities for expansion and the rush of temporarily believing that it’s even possible to detach from perfection, that’s what it’s all about.

External fantasies is just a quick fix for a short time, an entrapment due to lack of discernment of Sleepers. More awakened people are on the increase; this realisation through morphogenices within the Noosphere (thinking layer of Earth) is bringing this ever increasing level of awareness on to this planet. I’m optimistic this may gradually supersede the present state on this planet of its Sleeping audience, as this process works within the sleepers subconscious mind and gradually filters through to the conscious mind, this is a real process that works and is part of our evolution of humanity.

There is an amalgamation of many sources in metaphysics. Here is a very brief summation. This was back in the twentieth century for teachings in those days. For example, Steiner and ‘The Tibetan’ back 100 years ago had discussed this process of duality for the soul when incarnating on the Earth. Steiner discusses the pre incarnation period, selecting the Earth as unique for an accelerated soul growth. The Vedic teachings of thousands of years ago taught at Indian universities similar material. Also Phyllis V. Schlemmer whom worked with Dr Andrija Puharich and Sir John Whitmore (see references) that the Earth was a special focus for the Council of Nine. The development of esoteric teachings has grown a lot since those days.

The Only Planet of Choice by Phyllis V. Schlemmer
The Nine: Briefing from Deep Space by Stuart Holroyd
The Master Djwhal Khul (also known as the Tibetan)
Other sources like H.P. Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Rudolf Steiner, George Gurdjieff

[Ernie Nemeth]

God is not a being, like you or I think we are.

God is not keeping an eye out for little mindbender's next infraction, tallying it up in the 'good book'. No. God muses and we are the result. We are required elements in God's plan. Indispensable parts of a plan we cannot know. That should already give us pause. For we do not feel indispensable at all. This means that our image of self, our self-image, is incorrect. So any conclusions drawn in this state of self-delusion cannot be true, real, or in any way pertinent to the discussion.

God is preoccupied. The divine musings go on. We merely play our indispensable parts.

Unaware of our true importance we draw parallels that do not exist. There is no heaven or hell, there is only the musings of god, which we are a part of, not apart from.

[greybeard]

Would "God" send himself to hell?
Cant remember the exact quote from Genesis but I think it goes along the lines of God became all that is without diminishing Himself.
There nowhere that God is not, in thats sense there is no separation
Omni potent, omni present.
Even scientists will say that its like a spiders web from the big bang.
Everything is of the same Divine energy -- just varying degrees of it.
Chris

[Rawhide68]

dichotomy = sharing, division, partition, dichotomy, fission, parting

amalgamation = merger, fusion, amalgamation, consolidation, unification, tie-up blandning

concur= summon, cite, chime in, assent, go along

amalgamation = mixture, blend, mix, admixture, interfusion, amalgamation

[Pam]

the light being no more important than the darkness aoibhghaire thank you for that most grounding post. One of the most imbalancing actions I have created in this experience was giving more emphasis to the "light" portion of the experience. I have looked away at the dark part, at least in myself for a very long time. The best thing that ever happened to me is seeing this and just delving into it. Just sitting with it and allowing all of the energy involved in it just to flow through. Just watching my actions and seeing the reality of motivations. Seeing why it is all here.

The reason I love the Bhagavad Gita so is that it speaks to motives, what are the motives behind what we do? Most people would rather die than go there but if we dare to do it, it will be seen for what it is, a paper tiger, Oz behind the screen. The only power it has is when it is suppressed and ignored. I am amazed at how much energy it takes to keep it suppressed. But dag nabbit, I did it for years.

[Rawhide68]

Dear aoibhghaire

you type "..and Sir John Whitmore (see references)"
Where do i find references ?

[DeDukshyn]

Considering the entire Christian religion is pretty much based around the concept that you will go to "Hell" if you don't say the magic words, or whatever, it should be of interesting note then, that there is almost no mention of hell in the scriptures at all, the way the religion has conceptualized it.

Fear is the absolute best control mechanism that humans can use to control other humans with. This is how the overemphasis of avoiding being sent to "hell" has developed within the religion. The religion seeks to control people's beliefs, and there is no better way to do that then by implanting a fear based control mechanism. This mechanism was created by the religion, not by any scriptures.

"Hell" is a state, where the ego has rampant control of the mind. The ego is a defense mechanism for the body and is highly reductive by nature, and it applies a reaction in place of thinking. This works well for protecting the body, but the ego is also in our minds (somehow - its not really supposed to be there). In our minds it follows the same mechanism.

It tries to replace your thoughts with reactional commands, out of things it perceives as threat. We are taught, through our various cultures, of all sorts of unseen "threat"s -- the concept of having to avoid a "hell" is programmed into us, and the ego, creating an automated reaction from that perceived threat, will keep reminding us that "we will go to hell" if we don't behave a certain way ... but ultimately, no one can be "perfect" so that program is always there reacting to our actions, and reminding us of this perceived "threat"

Don't believe it.

I have, for some time now, suspected that those labelled as "schizophrenic", have a condition where the ego's programs rise above the dividing line between subconscious and conscious thought, and are perceived as voices, as they form linguistically structured thought. Everyone has "voices" in their head, but in most people the vast majority of the ego's automated programs stay below that dividing line and don't often surface linguistically.

In schizophrenics, the issues arise when, for whatever reason, many of these fear based autonomous programs cross that line and express themselves as linguistic thought; in most people this doesn't occur, or just occasionally here and there. This most often appears as though "someone" (due to the autonomy of the ego's programs), outside them self, speaking to them in their mind, because they didn't guide the linguistic thought - rather it just "popped up".

[Caliban]

mindbend8r,

Turn away from those voices and tell yourself that heaven is available right now.

Hells are what we create ourselves and can get free of them anyway. That's what the Vedas are saying and the Buddhist texts as well. The Source of Love has no interest in sending Him/Herself to any kind of damnation. We're here to remember who we are.

Go within and know you are loved. And let that knowing vanish away those other voices. Those illusions will not withstand.

[aoibhghaire]

Hi Rawhide68,

The reference to the book. The only planet of choice : essential briefings from deep space / transceiver Phyllis V. Schlemmer ; foreword by Sir John Whitmore.

http://www.theonlyplanetofchoice.com/

You can read the book for free here:

http://bibliotecapleyades.lege.net/sociopolitica/onlyplanet_choise/opclist.htm

Hope that helps

aoibhghaire

[Pam]

blank, delete me

I could never blank or delete your Rawhide, you are much to wise for that....:happy dog:

[Rawhide68]

Appreciate your well defined answer,
Ill get back to you if I have further questions.

Thank you aoibhghaire

[Mari]

The Only Planet of Choice by Phyllis V. Schlemmer
The Nine: Briefing from Deep Space by Stuart Holroyd
The Master Djwhal Khul (also known as the Tibetan)
Other sources like H.P. Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Rudolf Steiner, George Gurdjieff[


Iv'e read the first two books - gives a brilliant (imo) understanding of the reality we find ourselves in

[AutumnW]

Only heed messages that are uplifting. Whatever is communicating with you is trying to tear you down. If there is any Hell, it is what they themselves are creating for you right now.

No matter how earnest and compelling the voices are, no matter how much they seem to 'know' you, ignore them. That's part of their game. They will tell you nine objectively true things that only YOU know, to hook you into believing they have the goods on everything, particularly YOU. The tenth thing they tell you will be a whopper of a lie designed to demoralize you and rob you of energy.

The new class of anti psychotics can help you defeat them by providing a chemical block or barrier that somehow disables them or blocks them from gaining entry to you. The voices will try to convince you not to take any medications. They will threaten, scare and intimidate you about that issue. Ignore them!

[Justplain]

Most of us really can't see the full picture of how the cycle of life and after life really works. After regarding the literature, and utilizing personal experience, you have to formulate your own assessment of what happens after death. I do believe our spirits are caught in a torturous process, one in some ways, that is hell in itself. I believe our spirit/soul recycles thru incarnations that may or not be voluntary. I do think soul harvesting occurs by entities that benefit from it. I don't think that the soul harvesting goes on forever, but from accounts, it can last for tens of thousands of years. Perhaps this is part of the overall soul development process? Is that part of the 'both good and evil' being equally necessary in this plane? Perhaps.

What I do wish for is to develop the ability to have a real choice of what is next for my spirit after this life. I would like to be conscious when I pass over, so I can make a conscious choice where to go next. If I am able to choose with my heart, only a place of peace and happiness would suffice. I believe that is the lesson to be learned here, that love and peace is the only way worth the bother.

And then, there's an infinite multiverse to explore.

[Tyy1907]

These voices are trying to push your buttons so they can sap more out of you as they're likely spirit attachments (that most people have)that try to ramp up negative emotions so they can "get their fix".

This talks of the fear of death, from getwisdom.com:

"Death is merely a transition. There is no death for human because you are an extension of a soul that is a form of consciousness that persists. It takes on many forms and has a variety of potential expressions, all undergoing at once. The human being you feel is you is but a small extension of your soul which is a vast consciousness, and an entity in its own right. It is in another dimension but it links to you and informs you with its composition and a set of potentials that govern who you are from time to time, moment to moment, with an array of choices that come your way. And how you respond will be reflecting the soul composition that is the uniqueness that it represents. Each immortal being has a soul composite that is unique to them.

This was Creator’s plan not to have a series of clones, virtually identical and therefore predictable and also somewhat limited in variety of expression. The plan was to have the maximum possible array of soul compositions to create variety and richness and a quite wide landscape of possibility. So when you leave here with physical death of the body you return to a higher state of being as a wider soul extension. This you call light being, but it is still a part of the soul being expressed and coalescing, and a functioning unit that has a role to play and has many, many options available to come and go and express itself, and to interact with many other soul extensions in like fashion. Death is a kind of liberation and if you knew entirely the implications of this, which do extend beyond your understanding and imaginings, you would view each death with great, great celebration.

The course of things is truly inverted, the birth is a stepping down. Coming to earth plane is a tremendous challenge of great difficulty and entails much suffering in almost every case. That is because of the nature of the ongoing tug of war, not the way it was designed to be in its ideal manifestation. So birth is a setback, death is a liberation, and we say this not to encourage its hastening. You have useful things to do here and important things to do. You did come with a plan and an agenda and have obligations to your soul itself to see to these, and to not short circuit this learning and growth process. All of the adversity, all of the suffering serves you enormously in ways you do not yet understand, but are part of the expansion. You cannot be an expanded being and not understand the opposites that go along with everything in creation. The entire universe is created to be a balanced system. Every new undertaking causes some imbalance. It can move in a positive way or in a negative way but always must be compensated for, and with that, will have consequences.

So everything you do affects everything else and this will go on forever. So you need never fear death. There is no death for you. You are immortal. You cannot be killed. You cannot be suppressed. You cannot be eliminated in any sense, in any way. Your human body is fragile, your soul is not. So you are at risk of losing your human expression. But you are always the extension of Creator and Creator’s consciousness, that will always be so. And we can promise you that we treasure you. All are loved without exception and all are understood in a much deeper way than you can, seeing but a snapshot about yourself and its long heritage, let alone those around you, where they come from, and who they truly are and what their potential holds."

[greybeard]

I would sugest that anyone with voices in the head read "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle.
The voices were driving him to suicide when he got an insight that changed his life, now "The peace that passes all understanding." is there for him and can be for everyone.
It made a big change in my life -- best book, ever millions sold.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKpmXhGVMxI

[enigma3]

Pam - you never know when Grace will come calling. Whether you're 6 or 86, should Grace come to you and you awaken you will know immediately that hell is a figament of the imagination. An imagination that is not infused with an awakened consciousness.
The awakened state is our natural state. In that state we realize there is no "I". Just continuous creation in the now. Merrily we flow along.

[DeDukshyn]

... anyone with voices in the head read ... Also known as, everyone. :)

[Tyy1907]

... anyone with voices in the head read ... Also known as, everyone. :)

Just in varying degrees

[DeDukshyn]

... anyone with voices in the head read ... Also known as, everyone. :)

Just in varying degrees

Exactly. I challenge anyone who disagrees to go five full minutes without a single thought that is expressed as a voice in your head. :)

[East Sun]

(moderators) Please erase.

[Mari]

I would sugest that anyone with voices in the head read "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle.
The voices were driving him to suicide when he got an insight that changed his life, now "The peace that passes all understanding." is there for him and can be for everyone.
It made a big change in my life -- best book, ever millions sold.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKpmXhGVMxI

This man, among others, keeps me sane. The follow-up to the Power Of Now, 'A new Earth' is quite relevant to the times we're going through.

[ShotAcrosstheBow]

I have schizophrenia and that's what the voices tell me. But there are spiritual sources that say there is no hell God sends people to. But then again there are other sources that say a hell exists and people go to it when they die sometimes. Like I don't know if the Vedas can be trusted as a valid spiritual source but the Vedas say there are 7 different hell worlds that people can go to when they die, and also the bible says people can go.

But I'd like to believe that it's not true God wouldn't do that that there is nothing someone can do in life to warrant an eternity of pure horror and suffering for eternity. I know psychics and I've read Dolores cannon material that say when we die we go back to God and are forgiven and if you do terrible things in life that you still have pay for what you did but hell doesn't exist. But how much can they really be believed as trusted material on the subject.

What if God really is a vengeful God and has no mercy on the bad people and tosses them like trash to the pits of hell. Why couldn't there be a God like that. I've seen different near death experiences and while most have people going to heaven there are about 30 % who said they went to hell. Are near death experiences probably the best source material on heaven and hell.

I d like people's different opinions on the subject. Feel free to comment I'm curious what people think on the matter. Thank you

God doesn’t send people to hell, people send themselves to hell,
Hell is real, but only the evil go there,

Hell is stacked, in layers, the very worst at the bottom, the least offending near the top,
If you go to any layer below the top layer your soul will stay there till destroyed,

If you are on the top layer, you may get a second chance,
Sometimes an angel will fly in and pull out souls they think can be saved, you will go back to Earth,
but if you turn to evil again you will never get another chance, if you return to hell you die,

Nobody lives forever in hell, they die slowly, turn in to vegetables and then cease to exist,

In heaven, most stay awhile then come back to Earth (reincarnate)

[Sarah Rainsong]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

[ShotAcrosstheBow]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

[DeDukshyn]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

Explain why rainsong needs find out the "easy" way and not the "hard" way? What is the detriment, if I were to believe that your words are not intended to present fear. Are you then presuming rainsong is a pedophile or a cannibal, and that is why she wouldn't want to find out the hard way? Interesting presumption and choice of wording.

[ShotAcrosstheBow]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

Explain why rainsong needs find out the "easy" way and not the "hard" way? What is the detriment, if I were to believe that your words are not intended to present fear. Are you then presuming rainsong is a pedophile or a cannibal, and that is why she wouldn't want to find out the hard way? Interesting presumption and choice of wording.

That’s an incredible clumsy way of trying to pervert what I said, kind of insidious how you tried to make your attack look like you are defending someone from me, you’ve done this before right?, so what’s your agenda here?

What I said is self explanatory within the post,

I did not attack anyone, (why would I do that? what’s my motivation? I have no reason to)

It’s blatantly not a misreading of what I wrote,

So, if rainsong feels offended, I will apologise for the miscommunication,

But not to you

[Sarah Rainsong]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

I was trying to keep my answer short and sweet. My answer was not intended to answer whether or not there was a hell, but "Would God really send people to hell." Hence, my answer was and remains, "NO. God does not send people to Hell."

It does seem that maybe mindbend8r was questioning whether hell existed, but I read the important questions as: Was God vengeful? Did He send people to Hell? To which, I gave my answer.

Hell means many things to many different people, including the concept of multiple layers or degrees of hell. Likewise, "God" means different things to different people. Because of that, I find that these kinds of discussions can get too broad or deep if jumped in all at once. I'd rather answer more slowly and let the questioner work through one piece at a time.

Now for the most part, I don't disagree with you, but I reject your last paragraph completely. I don't know what I'm supposed to be finding out, but my experience is that whenever people say "I’m not trying to," they're doing exactly whatever they're "not trying" to do. It's like when people say, "I'm not trying to offend you," but then they go on and offend you.

The whole concept of "you don't want to find out the hard way" implies a what-if-I'm right-and-you're-wrong mindset. As in: what if I'm right and there is a God who will send you to Hell, and you're wrong that there is no god [or fill in the blank]. That is fear-based manipulation, and that is what I reject.

[greybeard]

There is no judgmental God.
Your mind-- your belief system- your energetic vibration takes you where ever you are bound.
Jesus said "In my fathers house are many mansions" (levels)
The answer is dedicating oneself to spiritual practise -- it does not seem to matter which "path" its down to your intention.
Raising your spiritual vibration is the answer.
That may sound a little "New age" but its ancient knowledge -- everything has a unique vibration.
Chris

[DeDukshyn]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

Explain why rainsong needs find out the "easy" way and not the "hard" way? What is the detriment, if I were to believe that your words are not intended to present fear. Are you then presuming rainsong is a pedophile or a cannibal, and that is why she wouldn't want to find out the hard way? Interesting presumption and choice of wording.

That’s an incredible clumsy way of trying to pervert what I said, kind of insidious how you tried to make your attack look like you are defending someone from me, you’ve done this before right?, so what’s your agenda here?

What I said is self explanatory within the post,

I did not attack anyone, (why would I do that? what’s my motivation? I have no reason to)

It’s blatantly not a misreading of what I wrote,

So, if rainsong feels offended, I will apologise for the miscommunication,

But not to you

I didn't accuse you of attacking anyone. Just seeing how you'd respond. Thank you for that. It was your words that were clumsy, and bordering on dramatic, I pointed that out and I asked for a clarification, that is all. But I do have a way of getting people to expose themselves more clearly.

Apology wasn't requested, I certainly need none, as I don't get offended easily. You still failed to clarify your words, if you are saying I have misunderstood; please feel free to do that.

[ShotAcrosstheBow]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

I was trying to keep my answer short and sweet. My answer was not intended to answer whether or not there was a hell, but "Would God really send people to hell." Hence, my answer was and remains, "NO. God does not send people to Hell."

It does seem that maybe mindbend8r was questioning whether hell existed, but I read the important questions as: Was God vengeful? Did He send people to Hell? To which, I gave my answer.

Hell means many things to many different people, including the concept of multiple layers or degrees of hell. Likewise, "God" means different things to different people. Because of that, I find that these kinds of discussions can get too broad or deep if jumped in all at once. I'd rather answer more slowly and let the questioner work through one piece at a time.

Now for the most part, I don't disagree with you, but I reject your last paragraph completely. I don't know what I'm supposed to be finding out, but my experience is that whenever people say "I’m not trying to," they're doing exactly whatever they're "not trying" to do. It's like when people say, "I'm not trying to offend you," but then they go on and offend you.

The whole concept of "you don't want to find out the hard way" implies a what-if-I'm right-and-you're-wrong mindset. As in: what if I'm right and there is a God who will send you to Hell, and you're wrong that there is no god [or fill in the blank]. That is fear-based manipulation, and that is what I reject.

Did I say God sends people to hell?
You need read without bias, and consider (or at least suspend your judgement until proven otherwise) that I’m telling the truth when I said “I’m not trying to”
I can only try to tell you the truth, how you perceive it is up to you, I’m not responsible for that, nor trying to “manipulate” that like some may have in your past,

I can’t go jumping through hoops everytime someone sees something not there,

If your claim had any claim of validity I would be happy to apologise, but your complaint has nothing to do with what I’ve stated, it’s bias opinion,

I’m not interesting in manipulating anyone here, (I have nothing to gain, I may be gone from this site tomorrow, neither do I have the desire nor inclination) I was trying to help, people who think they have nothing to loose, often give that away, if that stops one evil person from hurting an innocent, or stops someone going to hell, then job done, it’s not a threat, it’s a fact, it’s real, I don’t know what your opinions are based on, and likewise you don’t know mine, I can only say what I know, if I had any doubt I would suspend my opinion,

[ShotAcrosstheBow]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

Explain why rainsong needs find out the "easy" way and not the "hard" way? What is the detriment, if I were to believe that your words are not intended to present fear. Are you then presuming rainsong is a pedophile or a cannibal, and that is why she wouldn't want to find out the hard way? Interesting presumption and choice of wording.

That’s an incredible clumsy way of trying to pervert what I said, kind of insidious how you tried to make your attack look like you are defending someone from me, you’ve done this before right?, so what’s your agenda here?

What I said is self explanatory within the post,

I did not attack anyone, (why would I do that? what’s my motivation? I have no reason to)

It’s blatantly not a misreading of what I wrote,

So, if rainsong feels offended, I will apologise for the miscommunication,

But not to you

I didn't accuse you of attacking anyone. Just seeing how you'd respond. Thank you for that. It was your words that were clumsy, and bordering on dramatic, I pointed that out and I asked for a clarification, that is all. But I do have a way of getting people to expose themselves more clearly.

Apology wasn't requested, I certainly need none, as I don't get offended easily. You still failed to clarify your words, if you are saying I have misunderstood; please feel free to do that.

No, anyone with wisdom can see what you are trying to do,

[DeDukshyn]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

Explain why rainsong needs find out the "easy" way and not the "hard" way? What is the detriment, if I were to believe that your words are not intended to present fear. Are you then presuming rainsong is a pedophile or a cannibal, and that is why she wouldn't want to find out the hard way? Interesting presumption and choice of wording.

That’s an incredible clumsy way of trying to pervert what I said, kind of insidious how you tried to make your attack look like you are defending someone from me, you’ve done this before right?, so what’s your agenda here?

What I said is self explanatory within the post,

I did not attack anyone, (why would I do that? what’s my motivation? I have no reason to)

It’s blatantly not a misreading of what I wrote,

So, if rainsong feels offended, I will apologise for the miscommunication,

But not to you

I didn't accuse you of attacking anyone. Just seeing how you'd respond. Thank you for that. It was your words that were clumsy, and bordering on dramatic, I pointed that out and I asked for a clarification, that is all. But I do have a way of getting people to expose themselves more clearly.

Apology wasn't requested, I certainly need none, as I don't get offended easily. You still failed to clarify your words, if you are saying I have misunderstood; please feel free to do that.

No, anyone with wisdom can see what you are trying to do,

And what was that exactly? You can click the triangle with the exclamation point and report my post if you believe I was being nefarious.

Perhaps I don't have the same level of wisdom as you do, maybe that's why I can't see it?

[ShotAcrosstheBow]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

Explain why rainsong needs find out the "easy" way and not the "hard" way? What is the detriment, if I were to believe that your words are not intended to present fear. Are you then presuming rainsong is a pedophile or a cannibal, and that is why she wouldn't want to find out the hard way? Interesting presumption and choice of wording.

That’s an incredible clumsy way of trying to pervert what I said, kind of insidious how you tried to make your attack look like you are defending someone from me, you’ve done this before right?, so what’s your agenda here?

What I said is self explanatory within the post,

I did not attack anyone, (why would I do that? what’s my motivation? I have no reason to)

It’s blatantly not a misreading of what I wrote,

So, if rainsong feels offended, I will apologise for the miscommunication,

But not to you

I didn't accuse you of attacking anyone. Just seeing how you'd respond. Thank you for that. It was your words that were clumsy, and bordering on dramatic, I pointed that out and I asked for a clarification, that is all. But I do have a way of getting people to expose themselves more clearly.

Apology wasn't requested, I certainly need none, as I don't get offended easily. You still failed to clarify your words, if you are saying I have misunderstood; please feel free to do that.

No, anyone with wisdom can see what you are trying to do,

And what was that exactly? You can click the triangle with the exclamation point and report my post if you believe I was being nefarious.

Perhaps I don't have the same level of wisdom as you do, maybe that's why I can't see it?

1) I’m not that petty
2) I don’t play your games

[DeDukshyn]

1) I’m not that petty
2) I don’t play your games

The only thing I did was make you eat some of your own pompous words, and you got all hot and triggered. Nothing else happened. lol.

I am going to report this post and ask mods to clean up this mess.

[ShotAcrosstheBow]

1) I’m not that petty
2) I don’t play your games

The only thing I did was make you eat some of your own pompous words, and you got all hot and triggered. Nothing else happened. lol.

I am going to report this post and ask mods to clean up this mess.

Wrong again, but I can see you hoped for that outcome, then you call in the mods, right?

[Bill Ryan]

No. God does not send people to hell.

If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.

I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

But there is a hell, God doesn’t send anyone there, but it’s real,

You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, it’s an evil use of free will,
In the same way you destroy yourselves,

Ironically psychopaths don’t have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but it’s fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and that’s it, nothing))

I’m not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
But you don’t want to find out the hard way either,

Sure, I'm a mod, and I'll intervene. That (above) is all bullsh*t. :) I know about these things, too.

I do seriously consider that you may be mentally unwell. I don't mean that unkindly, or as any kind of putdown or insult. But some people are. It's not their fault.

The greatest act of courage possible is to look in the mirror and realize that one might have a serious mental problem.

If you've had a history of this, and at some level you want to let go of your charade (which is what this is), then I can promise you: you'll find caring support here. You really will. This is a good place, with good people.

[DeDukshyn]

1) I’m not that petty
2) I don’t play your games

The only thing I did was make you eat some of your own pompous words, and you got all hot and triggered. Nothing else happened. lol.

I am going to report this post and ask mods to clean up this mess.

Wrong again, but I can see you hoped for that outcome, then you call in the mods, right?

I reported my post and asked for consideration of some post deletion. But of course you wouldn't believe that. Bill obviously had his reasons for leaving it as it was, which I understand.

--------------------

I would like to apologize to the OP, for my part in inadvertently getting this thread derailed.

:focus:





From Bill: a note of explanation. (Though I'm open to persuasion!) It's self-evident to me that the thread is actually rather silly — in the sense that of course, Hell does not exist, certainly in the Old Testament sense. (Metaphorically and subjectively, however, it can exist in many other forms.)

So I felt it was reasonable to leave the posts intact as a record of the dialog and disagreement. See my very serious response to ShotAcrosstheBow in post #45 here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110370-Would-God-really-send-people-to-hell....&p=1347995&viewfull=1#post1347995).

[Delight]

I do not think it is logical to think that the hell of the Southern Baptist or the Catholic Church is true. Once I heard that MAYBE the concept of a fire-y pit of never ending hell might be helpful. It stops one, if one is contemplating evil deeds (when one believes in certain punishment). Morality is trying to keep people form doing "bad" things. Maybe the fear of hell might restrain a person from an immoral act? It does not even have to true to work.

Note here that there is an assumption people cannot be trusted to be "good" without the stick threatened. There are NO DOUBT many who believe themselves to agents of some higher authority who feel fine lying about the afterlife. They might feel they are working for "god" and MAYBE not even really believe the dogmas that look useful?

But it is disingenuous as Not one can say for sure what "happens" after dying.

However lots of inexplicable occurrences in the category of "NDE" or life after death and then returned TEND to discount hell. Some people do feel some remorse or realize their errors. They feel LOVE. Many change forever to be enjoying life and never fearing death.

Is there consequence for our wrongs"? I actually entertain sometimes that I am already IN purgatory and in this state, I am sincerely faced with the fruits of my misspent energy.

Love-lessness we create and will be IN must ask to be redeemed (and be willing to transform in the interest of love). This redemption process is more what I expect a reasonable UNIVERSAL MIND would design for ITSELF. I recommend this movie as it DOES start in what one might believe is "hell" but is just immersion in the deep ugly "place" of not feeling the connection of love.

TSUBNytFx9M

[Tyy1907]

Karl Mollison of getwisdom.com channels Creator and poses viewer questions. Bold assertion I know. All I can say is it resonates with me for the most part.

"In previous channeling sessions, it was stated that we have it backwards—we should celebrate death and be mournful about birth. With that in mind, how can we prepare ourselves upon death to recognize and meet the light callers to avoid becoming an earthbound spirit?"


"The very best way to prepare for death is to prepare for a divine future. If you hold expectations of returning to the heavenly light, if your heart is untroubled about this, if the belief is strong that there is a loving divine being who cares about each and every person and wishes them to return to a state of greater closeness, this will do much to prepare everyone for their eventual passing. No one escapes this step. All lose their lives eventually through aging. Everyone needs to consider what will happen next.

This is the great tragedy of the secular movement—the abandonment of religion. People do not like its rules, fear its judgments, and are suspicious of the true intentions of the clergy who defend such harsh principles, through their own spiritual knowing that it is not in alignment, and they do themselves a disservice by discarding the whole notion of the divine entirely. That is truly abandoning your lifeline. Therefore, it is quite ironic that the very inner wisdom and insight of many who are spiritual encourages them to turn away from that very spiritual focus which has the only true meaning—the alignment with the Creator, the force of love, and the life force energy it brings to each and every living thing. This is simply reality. To deny reality by deciding there is no God, leaves you all alone. We will continue to support such people with life-force energy because we know they may have a change of heart, and our agreement with them is to let them have their experience.

This is the journey that you are all on at the moment—having your time, making your choices, and learning as you go, or unlearning, as the case may be. This is a test of each and every person to see how they choose to navigate their path. Will they leave divine alignment and be lost in a state of disconnection? Will they align themselves with a dark force and cause further damage, both to themselves and perhaps many, many others through encouraging others to break away in a similar fashion? There are many active voices seducing non-believers to feel a kind of pride and a self-righteousness about their intelligence in turning away from what they come to believe as folklore, and then spread these ideas to many others. They are, in fact, working for the annihilation of humanity when they do this. They do so unwittingly, but it nonetheless has its effects.

Everyone has a responsibility to conduct their lives according to divine principles. To be in this quandary is what we mean about the misfortune of birth—that you come into such a world having been dragged so very low that it is hanging by a slender thread which is supported solely by those true believers among you who do pray and reach out to Creator with a desire for human betterment. It is those few who keep things going. That is the only reason the world still exists in its present form with humanity on board.

The entirety of the human race can be annihilated very, very quickly. This, in fact, has happened before from actions of extraterrestrials. Those same extraterrestrial beings are on your planet today—and their descendants. They are waiting to see how things go in the near term to make final decisions about your fate. Not only do most people not know this but also they would not believe it if you told them. This is not a prescription for a turnaround in alliances and dedication of energy through a mass movement to turn things around for the better. You are coming from behind here in many, many ways. This is not to say that it is hopeless; it is dire.

When people are born into the world, they come down from the light knowing all of this. They have chosen to come into a battle of a sort. This is not what we are proposing—to go to war, have casualties and use weapons. That is not what we seek to have happen. We only seek an awakening to divine truth and an embracing of the divine. Humans come down with a spiritual connection, and if they are corrupted by those around them and suppressed, they will lose that connection. It will fade within them along with their remaining intuitive reach. Through propaganda and manipulation, both cultural and technological, they will be the walking wounded who are almost like robots, living lives of ignorance, disconnection, and insensitivity. They are lost to the cause for the time being, at least. Leaving here with death of the physical body is like a combat soldier completing his tour of duty, who then leaves the horrendous scenes of battle, returns home to normal life and the pleasures of the civilian existence, has a reunion with loved ones, and has so many pleasures that were not available in the field. That is the contrast. It is actually an indescribably great one between living as a physical human, which most people prize to some degree or to a large extent, and going back to the light.

We are using this question to point out that the contrast between realms is vast indeed, and coming into earth plane is rough duty. It is very much going into a battle that is underway. It is a covert test of wills and a struggle of ideologies which is being assisted on a continual basis by the divine realm. But we will not do it alone; we require humans to step up and take action. That is the choice that they have been given, and every human coming into life knows this—but then forgets. This is putting everyone at a disadvantage, to be sure. So this is not an easy task. Life has many challenges and many pitfalls. Few have ideal circumstances where they are loved, cherished, raised in a healthy way, and given a chance to learn important truths and not be drawn into the misguided teachings of the culture. This makes the rewards seem very, very meager at best.

What we would say to you is that the splendors of the divine realm can be experienced in the physical as well. This does not happen currently, because you are not light beings. You are being constrained from being light beings by the suppression of the interlopers who are here. This is what you are fighting for and why you do come down. But it is a sacrifice in many, many respects. However, it is a fight worth winning, as the future will be enhanced dramatically for the better if you are successful."

[Angels1981]

Hell is an absence of love. You have to ignore the voices they will turn you against you. You are nothing but perfect love. You are not going to hell. I hear voices and I've been through the hell. You got to remember Jesus Christ went into hell and rose again. Peace xxx

[Eagle Eye]

There has been a manipulation of history and we all know it, but something was too obvious to manipulate. So I will make a short summary.

Did Adam and Eve existed (If not who was the first human ?)
Did the messengers who have spoken the word of God existed? Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad they were all messengers speaking about same message but in different ways to be understood by many nations.
So why we have divided religions, is because every fraction wanted a different belief to gain power for their benefit.
The true identity of Jesus as a messenger of God was manipulated at council of Nicaea, convoked by emperor Constantine to change most of the facts to meet their own pagan beliefs (sun worshippers) and they pictured him as a god or son of god. That was both of them false because he was human, a choosen one and God gave him the power to do some miracles and he was not crucified ("maybe" Simon of Cyrene is the key of this dilemma)
Also Muhammad was the messenger of God and he has spoken the word of God (the Quran). If I say islam most will think that I am reffering to the arabic culture but that is not it. Arabs made the manipulation to fill the Quran with other texts that are called hadiths (non confirmed texts) just to spread their culture around the globe. Islam means peace, you can say it in all language you want, because the only religion that God has sent to humanity, is the religion of peace and it is for the entire world.
There is no black stone in Quran, there are no symbols in scriptures (not the cross, not the half moon), there are messages for people of that time and for those generation to come after.
Many things have changed and also our perception but the roots of belief are the same. If we are unaware of the word of God than I think we are not on the right path. From what I know about those scriptures, is that if you are a sincere believer and do what is right than we won't even hear the sound of hell but the truth is that hell exists and will be for humans and other creatures that have broken all the laws of God.

It looks like contradiction in this saying but there is not: God is the most merciful, but also He is severe in punishment. He doesn't do wrong to anyone, but it is they who wrong themselves.

[syrwong]

Fear and pain are the illusions of this body you have. When you have no nobody, fear and pain lose their meaning. So does hell. No hell therefore. BTW, no heaven for the same reason.

[Wind]

Hell is a state of mind...

[Uncle Mikey]

I have researched the subject of Hell for many years now and have concluded that Hell is a Parable for the process of Reincarnation.

The Church has hidden this fact for thousands of years now.

I'm a Fundamental Christian BTW.

[Mashika]

I have researched the subject of Hell for many years now and have concluded that Hell is a Parable for the process of Reincarnation.

The Church has hidden this fact for thousands of years now.

I'm a Fundamental Christian BTW.

Starting from the fact that all is based on a book someone/several people wrote throughout several centuries and some of them hated and refuted each other, and that mostly nothing they wrote can be verified, i would say that "Hell is a Parable for the process of Reincarnation" is a very compromised statement, it assumes whatever was written on the Bible is completely real

I tend to believe in other better spiritual experiences than the ones that tell you "if you don't act the way i told you to, you will suffer immense pain for eternity, or at least until you are forgiven..." That sounds a lot like human manipulation of the weak, or like parents abusing their kids through fear/pain and not like anything remotely close to real spirituality or a true God.

If a God would put "his" people through that suffering because they made mistakes, while also those people being made in "his own image", then that God is a very stupid one LOL

Also genders are a human thing, not a spiritual thing, there's no relation between being born a man or a woman and your spiritual growth and pureness. That's just another dumb thing whoever wrote the Bible didn't think in advance, God is always referenced as "he" LMAO

If you see the word "God" and you immediately think of a man or feel the authority of a father like person, you have been brainwashed badly LOL. I'm sorry but it's true

[Mashika]

It looks like contradiction in this saying but there is not: God is the most merciful, but also He is severe in punishment. He doesn't do wrong to anyone, but it is they who wrong themselves.

That may seem only "true" for the people that live inside the "religious bubble", everyone else see it for what it is, pure nonesense

Because, who told you that about God? That he acts like that and that's how he would react at all? It's a dumb assumption made by humans, in reality, no one knows if that's how God really is. This all came from the same source as any other dumb thing that has caused thousands of years of suffering for human kind, the need to impose a personality on God that always fits the views of the people in control or power of the "lower" crowds

[Mashika]

It looks like contradiction in this saying but there is not: God is the most merciful, but also He is severe in punishment. He doesn't do wrong to anyone, but it is they who wrong themselves.

That may seem only "true" for the people that live inside the "religious bubble", everyone else see it for what it is, pure nonesense

Because, who told you that about God? That he acts like that and that's how he would react at all? It's a dumb assumption made by humans, in reality, no one knows if that's how God really is. This all came from the same source as any other dumb thing that has caused thousands of years of suffering for human kind, the need to impose a personality on God that always fits the views of the people in control or power of the "lower" crowds

It's the same thing it has always been, pure manipulation of people's minds through fear and power figures that tell you what to think and do, or else.

[Tracie (Bodhicee)]

I have schizophrenia and that's what the voices tell me. But there are spiritual sources that say there is no hell God sends people to. But then again there are other sources that say a hell exists and people go to it when they die sometimes. Like I don't know if the Vedas can be trusted as a valid spiritual source but the Vedas say there are 7 different hell worlds that people can go to when they die, and also the bible says people can go.

But I'd like to believe that it's not true God wouldn't do that that there is nothing someone can do in life to warrant an eternity of pure horror and suffering for eternity. I know psychics and I've read Dolores cannon material that say when we die we go back to God and are forgiven and if you do terrible things in life that you still have pay for what you did but hell doesn't exist. But how much can they really be believed as trusted material on the subject.

What if God really is a vengeful God and has no mercy on the bad people and tosses them like trash to the pits of hell. Why couldn't there be a God like that. I've seen different near death experiences and while most have people going to heaven there are about 30 % who said they went to hell. Are near death experiences probably the best source material on heaven and hell.

I d like people's different opinions on the subject. Feel free to comment I'm curious what people think on the matter. Thank you

Life force tends to fragment in this life, and parts might be in a hell of some kind. It's a matter of self-gathering and dissolving the barriers between soul fragments, to become fully present here in the body. It's done by repetitive inner perception and feel.
TomKat, this is profound and deeply hope giving. Thanks. I feel the truth of what you've written.

[Ernie Nemeth]

If there is a hell, then god is a being, to whom space and time provide a limit and a boundary.

If God is all there is then there cannot be a hell, unless you believe god can be conflicted, which again reflects the primary belief that god is a being.

If God really is omnipresent and omnipotent then there are only absolute qualities attributable to God. Hate, retribution, rehabilitation, and fear are petty concerns of small beings and are not included in the composite reality of the Creator because they originate in the incomplete nature of mankind and are therefore not part of reality, only that of the realm of perception, which precedes true 'sight'.

[Eagle Eye]

It looks like contradiction in this saying but there is not: God is the most merciful, but also He is severe in punishment. He doesn't do wrong to anyone, but it is they who wrong themselves.

That may seem only "true" for the people that live inside the "religious bubble", everyone else see it for what it is, pure nonesense

Because, who told you that about God? That he acts like that and that's how he would react at all? It's a dumb assumption made by humans, in reality, no one knows if that's how God really is. This all came from the same source as any other dumb thing that has caused thousands of years of suffering for human kind, the need to impose a personality on God that always fits the views of the people in control or power of the "lower" crowds

It's the same thing it has always been, pure manipulation of people's minds through fear and power figures that tell you what to think and do, or else.


What we call today religion, it is a gathering of many pieces together to end up getting confused. It is belief in one God, origin of mankind, description of many events, holy scriptures (word of God).
Now we get to the confusing part: many kind of rituals created by humans, fragmentations of scriptures to divide in many groups, to aim for power and control, strange objects of worship (when God has commanded to not make any image in the shape of anything), deception through mixing truth with lies, misusing of the word "God", for different agendas or personal interests.

So this is what we call religion today, but you can't deny the history. Adam and Eve (the origin of mankind), also: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, they all existed and had a great role for mankind.

[greybeard]

Im afraid you can deny history.
Its a fact that the human race has faced near extinction quite a few times.
There are images on the pyramids depicting advanced flying machines.
There are ancient maps that could only have been made with knowledge of the whole world at that time
The Mayan calendar that has not been surpassed today for accuracy through their knowledge of the movement of stars/planets.
The building of the pyramids throughout the world, the movement of massive stones that could not be done today even with the most sophisticated machinery.
There is a load of evidence of advanced human races that existed before the ice ages and global disasters due to asteroid strikes
and super volcanic eruptions.
Records of flying machines in ancient India.
There were virgin births before Jesus recorded
So much record of ancient times that can not be disputed.

The Bible is not a full proof record of human history.
The New Testament re wrote God -- a loving One the Old Testament a paranoid judgmental entity.
Non duality is not a religion but through the experience of the enlightened points to a Divine energy that exists in everything --Omni present
It is not possible for that energy to separated from self --orit would not be omni present.
Jesus said "Of my self I do nothing it is the father within and The Father and I are one"
Could anything be more clear than that?
How could you be sent to hell?

With love Chris

[Ernie Nemeth]

Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, they all existed and had a great role for mankind.

Except of course they had different names and come from a time far earlier than suggested by the bible...except Mohammed, the modern prophet, and some say the last. The bible is an abridged and compiled version of much earlier works of wisdom...except for the new testament and its first and mostly second hand accounts of Jesus of Nazareth.

Notice the exceptions are the most recent additions to the west's wisdom traditions.

[Mashika]

It looks like contradiction in this saying but there is not: God is the most merciful, but also He is severe in punishment. He doesn't do wrong to anyone, but it is they who wrong themselves.

That may seem only "true" for the people that live inside the "religious bubble", everyone else see it for what it is, pure nonesense

Because, who told you that about God? That he acts like that and that's how he would react at all? It's a dumb assumption made by humans, in reality, no one knows if that's how God really is. This all came from the same source as any other dumb thing that has caused thousands of years of suffering for human kind, the need to impose a personality on God that always fits the views of the people in control or power of the "lower" crowds

It's the same thing it has always been, pure manipulation of people's minds through fear and power figures that tell you what to think and do, or else.


What we call today religion, it is a gathering of many pieces together to end up getting confused. It is belief in one God, origin of mankind, description of many events, holy scriptures (word of God).
Now we get to the confusing part: many kind of rituals created by humans, fragmentations of scriptures to divide in many groups, to aim for power and control, strange objects of worship (when God has commanded to not make any image in the shape of anything), deception through mixing truth with lies, misusing of the word "God", for different agendas or personal interests.

So this is what we call religion today, but you can't deny the history. Adam and Eve (the origin of mankind), also: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, they all existed and had a great role for mankind.

You are very certain about Adam and Eve, but you are using the same book that tells you about it as proof the book says the truth...

Dont you see a problem?

Adam and Eve were the first two, then had a couple kids. One went around and had his own kids, with who he did that?

What you call "history" is simply a version of things that were written on that book "by humans"

Using the book to prove the book is saying the truth doesnt make any sense...

Also it is said Enoch, son of Cain (who had a child even tough there was no one on earth but him and his parents) had 77 children, isn't that odd?

And yes i know about Awan, it seems ridiculous because it looks like someone patching the story so it makes sense

Anyway do you like incest? because is the bible is absolute truth we are all born out of it and continue to "sin" day by day we have a partner in life, or kids :) Dont need to whack me in the head OK. got my fair share of that before LOL

[Eagle Eye]

There is a misunderstanding that God is only for mankind, He is God of everything that has been created (including aliens too). Earth was appointed to humans to inherit, that's why we don't see any other intelligent being in the open.

And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" God said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." (2 :30)

[greybeard]

literally "Only God is"
Non duality is "One without a second"
There is no place were God is not.
There can not be a hell without God being present --thefore there is no hell
If it can be accepted that God is omni present then the rest is just a story made up by mind.
Investigate, investigate and as pointed out you cant confirm the authenticity of the Bible statements using the Bible.

Ch

[Merkaba360]

literally "Only God is"
Non duality is "One without a second"
There is no place were God is not.
There can not be a hell without God being present --thefore there is no hell
If it can be accepted that God is omni present then the rest is just a story made up by mind.
Investigate, investigate and as pointed out you cant confirm the authenticity of the Bible statements using the Bible.

Ch

that's great and all, for those not in the illusion. A few years ago I had food poisoning and that was pretty much hell for 8 hours even though i know it is an illusion, how and why is the illusion so powerful. And i can think of much worse and longer tormenting experiences. I think the point is that Hell is associated with extreme ignorance and delusion - our current state or worse. So, that is the other side of the argument.

I just wish somebody could tell me why. Why does intense suffering need to exist in the universe. Do you want to hear the good news or the bad news first - regarding the universe. Is liberation all roses or do we become aware of "the bad news" as well. The flaw or problem of the universe. Like we can't have this thrilling or ecstatic experiences without its opposite, or is that just an appearance/trap. Does the guy who just freed himself from 30 years of "hell" feel as good or better than a liberated/enlightened being?

-------------------------------------------

With regards to the Adam and Eve. Yea we didnt come from two people and the incest of their siblings. We descended in frequency, like a fluid dream slowing down and solidifying. Evolution is true from one point of view and false from another. I actually saw a reality solidify right in front of me. THe room i was in became background. IT was exactly like windows on our computer, but in 3D. I could shift my attention between the two realities. So, that reality didn't take billions of years to form matter lol. My chakras were super active especially my feet. I could then feel that gravity comes from the legs region. Feet and i think root chakra. When the reality started to form it was like i felt a big force swirling in and it started to take form and become more than a force/gravity. Colors came in at some point. I guess it literally was built from the ground up. lol I do deny his-story.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I am intrigued by your last statement: I guess it literally was built from the ground up. Based upon what little we know, which is not much and mostly wrong, it is impossible for two realities to super-impose. It even violates Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. But the way you describe it being built in front of your eyes from the ground up suggests you did the conjuring!



If the reality we experience is intrinsic then it is external and suffering is real. If reality is a shared experience based on the perception of an external source by multiple observers then it is probably a secondary effect and most likely internal, thereby suffering becomes a misconception.

We are not asked to understand this, in our present state we are incapable of it.

'I fear that I will die, yet I know there is no death, only new adventures', might be one way of considering it. But when it is personal, it is all but impossible to maintain such an encompassing over-view. When it's personal, the world shrinks to a very small pin-prick of a bubble...

In other words what world you are in that suffering is manifest depends on situational perspective.

[greybeard]

By coincidence, I think some answers are here Merkaba360 on the link.
Much humour expressing spirituality as opposed to religion.
Perhaps the difference is serving the Divine as opposed to expecting the Divine to give us what we want
You can rise above painful experiences without being --enlightened.
Chris

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-and-related-matters.&p=1354416&viewfull=1#post1354416

[Merkaba360]

I am intrigued by your last statement: I guess it literally was built from the ground up. Based upon what little we know, which is not much and mostly wrong, it is impossible for two realities to super-impose. It even violates Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. But the way you describe it being built in front of your eyes from the ground up suggests you did the conjuring!



If the reality we experience is intrinsic then it is external and suffering is real. If reality is a shared experience based on the perception of an external source by multiple observers then it is probably a secondary effect and most likely internal, thereby suffering becomes a misconception.

We are not asked to understand this, in our present state we are incapable of it.

'I fear that I will die, yet I know there is no death, only new adventures', might be one way of considering it. But when it is personal, it is all but impossible to maintain such an encompassing over-view. When it's personal, the world shrinks to a very small pin-prick of a bubble...

In other words what world you are in that suffering is manifest depends on situational perspective.

Although, I've done some cool things on my own, I must admit I had some help from dear Lady Salvia for that experience. lol Although certain interpretations from those kind of experiences can be illusory -the energy intensity, the ability to see that normal perception is the illusion, the heightened senses and awareness means it isnt some hallucination. I mean, that plant is so powerful, it can do literally anything, and things beyond bizarre. It used to show me some new angle everytime. I think it was doing that to push me and help me get a better understanding.

So, yea they can be superimposed to some degree. It did seem that i couldn't be totally immersed in either "world" while i was viewing the two. I guess the one you focus on comes to the forefront and once you fully immerse your attention into it then perhaps the other one then completely vanishes.

Yea, i guess there are things to learn while the blinders and limits are on. And when we grow enough and practice enough , we can remove some of them and become more capable of those understandings.

[Mashika]

literally "Only God is"
Non duality is "One without a second"
There is no place were God is not.
There can not be a hell without God being present --thefore there is no hell
If it can be accepted that God is omni present then the rest is just a story made up by mind.
Investigate, investigate and as pointed out you cant confirm the authenticity of the Bible statements using the Bible.

Ch

that's great and all, for those not in the illusion. A few years ago I had food poisoning and that was pretty much hell for 8 hours even though i know it is an illusion, how and why is the illusion so powerful. And i can think of much worse and longer tormenting experiences. I think the point is that Hell is associated with extreme ignorance and delusion - our current state or worse. So, that is the other side of the argument.

I just wish somebody could tell me why. Why does intense suffering need to exist in the universe. Do you want to hear the good news or the bad news first - regarding the universe. Is liberation all roses or do we become aware of "the bad news" as well. The flaw or problem of the universe. Like we can't have this thrilling or ecstatic experiences without its opposite, or is that just an appearance/trap. Does the guy who just freed himself from 30 years of "hell" feel as good or better than a liberated/enlightened being?

-------------------------------------------

With regards to the Adam and Eve. Yea we didnt come from two people and the incest of their siblings. We descended in frequency, like a fluid dream slowing down and solidifying. Evolution is true from one point of view and false from another. I actually saw a reality solidify right in front of me. THe room i was in became background. IT was exactly like windows on our computer, but in 3D. I could shift my attention between the two realities. So, that reality didn't take billions of years to form matter lol. My chakras were super active especially my feet. I could then feel that gravity comes from the legs region. Feet and i think root chakra. When the reality started to form it was like i felt a big force swirling in and it started to take form and become more than a force/gravity. Colors came in at some point. I guess it literally was built from the ground up. lol I do deny his-story.

Just a small comment, frequencies have little to do with object or energy density in the way new-age people use it. I wish whoever made the wrong choice of using "Frequencies" to describe something in that new-age way would have invented their own word for the concept, instead of changing the meaning of a word that is meant to count something that happens in intervals, like 60 beats per second, or 120 beats per second.

Frequency count is slower/faster and never high/down or light/heavy, liquid/solid. I dislike very much how the word has been misused so much that it turned into a "we raise to a higher frequency level", that means zero and it sounds ridiculous if you think about what the word Frequency really means

/rant

[Tyy1907]

Through reading countless nde's and other research it's not God that sends anyone anywhere. It's the individual who decides for the most part. Someone in a divine alignment and or who's energy state is high enough will see the light callers, who can appear as many beings.

An untimely death or a passing when someone is in a low state - they may not have the wherewithal to see the light callers and can end up in the lower astral aka purgatory and be an earthbound spirit. There they're subject to dark spirit harassment that can be relentless. Until a prayer is launched to have them rescued and brought HOME. We know where that is.

Spirit rescue for the recently passed used to be customary in Catholicism I think it is

[Sunny-side-up]

The way I sort of understand it is, we send our self there if at all.

[GMB1961]

On a lighter note....now in James Chapter 4 verse 17 states that if anyone knows the good they ought to do and don’t do it, it is a sin for them...my question is: if god isn’t feeding and saving the starving, witnessing all manor of crimes against humanity such as for example...ww1, ww2, ALL WARS THROUGH TIME for that fact where human life if wasted and lost does he know the good he ought to do? Because if he doesn’t then he isn’t all knowing and can’t be god .
If he knows what he ought to do and doesn’t do it, then he/ she isn’t benevolent and is a sinner so he/she can’t be god...so, is there a god?"

To deep a question or does it make you wonder...just a bit. ?

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

God doesn't do, or not do, God simply is. There is an invaluable resource that exactly describes the meanings and forces that govern our reality, which come from the horse's mouth itself - our own higher selves. If there was a pair of books that everyone on earth should read, it would probably be Dr. Michael Newton's Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls. They answer very satisfactorily almost every question you've ever had on God, the soul, life after death, life before life, and everything in between. A great way to spend this lockdown!

43531

[TomKat]

George W. Bush, when asked which historical figure he drew inspiration from, answered "Jesus Christ." Then he went on to lead his nation into fascist tyranny and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's all you need to know about the bible.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Swedenborg has a lot to say about hell. Here is an excerpt from Apocalypse Revealed:

There are two heavens into which the entire heaven is divided, the celestial kingdom and the spiritual kingdom. The celestial kingdom consists of those who are in love to the Lord and thence in wisdom.; and the spiritual kingdom consists of those who are in love towards the neighbor, and thence in intelligence; and as love towards the neighbor is at this day called ‘charity’ and ‘intelligence’, ‘faith’, the latter kingdom consists of those who are in charity, and thence in faith. Now, because heaven is distinguished into two kingdoms, hell also is distinguished into two kingdoms that are opposite to them; into the diabolical kingdom and into the satanic kingdom. The diabolic kingdom consists of those who are in the love of dominion from love of self and thence in foolishness; for this love is opposite to celestial love, and its foolishness is opposite to celestial wisdom; but the satanic kingdom consists of those who are in the love of dominion from the pride of their own intelligence, and thence in insanity; for this love is oppsite to spiritual love, and its insanity is opposite to spiritual intelligence. By foolishness and insanity are meant foolishness and insanity in things celestial spiritual. Similar things are to be understood of the church on earth as are said of heaven for they make one.


Swedenborg then goes on to relate these aspects of heaven and hell to matters concerning the apocalypse.

[Iyakum]

From my own life experience. There is no hell. What we call hell does not exist. If there is a hell, it is here on earth. It is our laws that make people pay for doing evil.

We can read, hear or see it almost every day. In the newspaper, on the radio or on TV. As an an example. The greatest terrorist of all time at his time. Carlos Ramirez. After years of searching, he was finally caught and put in prison in Paris.
Isn't that the perfect example that everyone who commits evil is caught at some point. He comes to court and receives his sentence.

It has nothing to do with God. One could of course quote from the Bible, but as has already been written, the Bible was not the first book / work to write such words.

I agree with Mashika. Adam and Eve were certainly not the first people. That is impossible, it would be pure incest. It would not be possible because at some point the blood groups would no longer fit and humanity would become extinct. But this is a topic that everyone who thinks logically knows that it is not true.

[Eagle Eye]

Same old debate through ages, but in different form. In these modern times I have seen many that claim that God doesn't exist, or heaven and hell doesn't exist, are the first applauded, books are mainly promoted, nobel prices, movie awards. It's one main proof, who controls this world.
God exists and has decreed for mankind free will and an ultimate test: to be aware of Him, to be grateful of what He has created, to ask forgiveness for our sins (because in this duality, no one is pure) and to worship only Him while unseen. That is the first and most important thing in this life. Living in this duality is almost a torture, if you are on the right path and are aware of the evil forces. Once you "see" there is no turning back, you keep walking the difficult path and fight until the last breath.
Heaven and Hell exists but we have little knowledge about them. There are different situations in our lives that simulates the experience of both states, but we can't fully comprehend them.

[OopsWrongPlanet?]

Depends which God you are referring to.....

x

M

[Did You See Them]

Yin yang.
All must be experienced and will be.
We are all mere fractals of the divine, of the one god, a shard of the ONE essence life itself. There is only ONE life force.

Good,bad - Up,down - Black, white - Alive,dead.

The one God new all but wanted/needed to experience ALL without knowing.
God Cleaved itself into a myriad of individual piece's like a shattered diamond. Individual yet once part of a whole.
God was "lonely" !
Heaven and Hell are but constraints we impose on our understanding of his nature.
God needs to Eat whilst understanding what it's like to be Eaten.

Yin Yang

[KristenMary]

I've been pondering this one myself. I asked myself, "If all is from Source/The All, then how is anything evil, e.g. would Goddess worship be evil and therefore punishable by sending one to hell?" I don't think so. I don't believe that any particular spiritual system's texts are the full truth but have some truth, they are, after all, written by men. Men/women have filters/biases, etc and therefore the same message will be construed differently by each individual, though we may find common ground. I don't know if there is heaven or hell but I suspect they are nothing like we think. Perhaps hell has infernal beings residing in it and they are quite at home there. In any case, I don't see why, if we don't believe an exact system of belief and don't live absolutely by the letter of the words of said system that we would be sent to hell, just for believing differently or having a different approach.