Attention, Patriots!

[Dennis Leahy]

(Apologies in advance to the rest of the world, this is primarily Ameri-centric. However, with the vast geopolitical influence of the USA, the whole world is affected.)

"Patriot"

What is it? Do you define yourself as a patriot? Then you must know what exactly it is that you are patriotic toward, I would hope.

The word "patriot" is used a lot in some circles as sort of a call to a group, and I would assume the group, "patriots" knows what defines them as a group. What is it? What are those defining traits/attributes/characteristics/beliefs? And what traits/attributes/characteristics/beliefs are critical to be in the "patriot" group? For example, could someone be a patriot if they feel mildly patriotic toward the amended US Constitution, but not toward any facet of the US government including the military/intelligence, nor any US political parties, nor the national anthem? What's the minimum to call oneself a patriot?

Have you actually stopped to think about what exactly you mean when you say "patriot?"

Are you patriotic toward your country?

Are you patriotic toward your country no matter what your country does?

Are you patriotic toward the government of your country?

Are you patriotic toward the government of your country when the "other" political party controls the White House and/or Congress?

Are you patriotic toward the government of your country even after two groups form corporate political parties and those two corporate political parties control every seat of high office by controlling the entire election system?

Are you patriotic to the government of your country when you recognize that a significant percentage of elected and appointed high-office individuals have dual citizenship, primarily including Israel?

Are you patriotic toward the military of your country?

Are you patriotic toward the military of your country when they kill millions of innocent civilians?

Are you patriotic toward the military of your country when they act as global muscle for corporations, under the euphemism "protecting American interests abroad?"

Are you patriotic toward "Patriot" missiles?

Are you patriotic toward the Military Industrial Complex of your country?

Are you patriotic towards the Intelligence/Surveillance Complex of your country?

Are you patriotic toward the Constitution of your country?
If yes, which Constitution? The first one, or the one after all the amendments?

Are you patriotic towards the flag of your country?

Are you patriotic towards the "national anthem", the "bombs bursting in air" song?

Are you patriotic towards the principle of "American exceptionalism?"

Are you patriotic towards the Patriot Act?

Are you patriotic towards the unelected, powerful, rich, movers and shakers and policy makers behind the curtain (the "Shadow Government" - let's assume they are US citizens) that heavily influence or create foreign and domestic policy?

Are you patriotic toward the government of your country following the agenda set into policy by the Shadow Government?

Are you patriotic towards US soldiers restricting the movements of and arresting civilians that do not follow their strict orders...in Iraq?

Are you patriotic towards US soldiers restricting the movements of and arresting civilians that do not follow their strict orders...in the USA?

If you define yourself as being a "patriot", what exactly does it mean to you? (And, have you examined the list above to see if your patriotism is boundless or has conditions?)

I'm not posting this to piss off those who say they are patriots - I'm trying to find out what it is at the core value level that makes you feel your patriotism, and what the boundaries of your patriotism are.

Especially for a better understanding of the foreign policy of the USA for the past 75 years, and how much that policy has remained intact through all of the various presidents/administrations and congressional bodies that codified American foreign policy and the US military that carried out that policy, you may want to watch (at least the first 2 parts of) the documentary The Power Principle (http://metanoia-films.org/the-power-principle/) ("Probably the best documentary ever made about American foreign policy".- Information Clearing House.)

[Tomkoyote]

I stopped being patriotic many many moons ago. I am patriot to no country, absolutely none. I have 3 citizenships and the passports that I hold have no more value to me than a ticket to a movie theater, i.e. a license to enter; Not more.
I'll start being patriotic to a country when it's government genuinely works in my interest and the interest of its citizens. I will never be patriotic to a country whose gov is a political prostitute to its masters.
There is not a single gov on the planet that I know of, that works in and for the interest of its citizens - none of them gives a s**t about their slave citizens.

[Mike]

Great thread.

I'm not sure how to answer it all exactly. All I know is that I'm on guard against sounding too negative about things.

I think it's a miracle when I wake up every day and there isn't rioting in the streets. I've felt that way for a long long time, well before this corona thing

People cooperate, in general, and assist each other against the great suffering of life. We've been doing it for a long time now. The doctor, the dentist, the plumber, the electrician, the garbageman..they are all there when we need them. It's amazing. And, in general, they are all decent people with a sincere desire to help. It's a blessing and a miracle

If you want to see family on the other side of the country or the world, you hop on this wonderful machine called an airplane, and you fly over enormous distances in a pretty short period of time and you're there. It's another enormous miracle.

We have running water. Wow. If that's all we had, and nothing else, that alone would be a reason to wake up in the morning with a profound sense of gratitude

But we also have plumbing, another enormous miracle, and electricity, and air conditioning, and heat, and refrigerators, and washers and dryers, and dish washers....all profound miracles. We have cable tv, the internet, and all various forms of brilliant art to fill the gaps in between our wonderful technologies.

Though largely imperfect, we have religions and spiritual systems and techniques in place that allow us to feel unity with and express gratitude for the creator that made all this possible

Human beings have worked and toiled for hundreds and thousands of years so we can have the lives we enjoy today. As crazy as it all seems at the moment, it's never been easier.

I live in the US, and if I feel a sense of patriotism it's because of everything I listed above. The patriotism I feel is mostly an enormous sense of gratitude for all the sacrifices and innovations that I'm benefiting from and enjoying...and the infrastructure in place that makes it all possible. It's a profound miracle.

[Denise/Dizi]

What does being a "Patriot" mean to me? I don't follow the standard definition, yet I do consider myself to be a " Patriot... " For lack of a better word...

It means many things.. I am from America, born and raised.. Like everyone else, I was born into a system of debt slavery without my knowledge, with my birth filed in a registry, claiming I am now in debt for the spending of my fellow country members... World members as well, as all seem to have their own means of doing this to their populations. I am not "Patriotic" towards just America but for the freedoms of the human race in general, no matter where you were born or live..

Being a "Patriot" in my eyes, means not supporting the corporations, and their use of the populations to seek power and control over others, but to secure the freedoms that we fought for over the years, against such things. Each patriot in each country, in their own way, from the tyranny that their governments and religions have placed upon them..

And it is not only suggested in the constitution, but recommended.. Because they knew when making that document, it didn't cover the general population, (unless they were convinced it did)... only those that are bound to it by signature.. I never signed it, did you?

Patriotism, to me, means freedom from the "Crown", freedom from "Corporations" , etc. To be able to live among the rest of the population, without some "yahoo" with some fancy piece of paper or badge, suggesting that somehow they have any rights to do anything to me, that "someone else", with that same "fake authority" bestowed upon them, also wrongfully lol. Anyone telling us what we can and cannot do, where we can and cannot go. It is a position within a corporation.. They have convinced you, the members of society that they have the right to imprison you if you do not do as you are told..

I am a Patriot AGAINST the fake "freedoms" they are trying to convince us we still have... Why do you think they hate (And fear) "Unions" so much? because the USA is nothing more than the largest corrupt UNION of all time. And you bet they pay attention when another "Union" is formed.. This is why you saw so many "Union" members being eliminated in the 70's, "Don't wake the masses" if too many unions became the forefront of news, people would wonder how they got away with so much without prosecution in another "Union". That union doesn't control the other, therefore they had to take them out the only way they could.. Pitting unions against each other. And it worked.. Some didn't bother to form unions properly, as they lacked the education to know they needed to, and those were arrested under the ole' mighty "US of A" union.

They say we have the right to travel freely within this country, but try to drive the streets without a current sicker and see how quickly you get harassed or cited as punishment for not following the rule of this "Free Country"... Try to pay someone, or prove who you are, without their "Systems standards" and see how far that gets you. Even to get a job they're required to get you to file legal documentation suggesting that you can even work for them, as they themselves are a part of the system. Every employer who files a W2 for a new employee is part of CORP USA.. Whether knowingly or not...

Try to fly without approved documents established by the government.. (Which requires you register as someone supporting their cause, and throwing you right back into the "system")..

I recently had to go get a new drivers license just to send a registered check to my mortgage company.. They wanted me in the system again before I claimed ownership of my property, and for good reason, it then becomes part of the assets of the government corporation, until I detach it from said system, and they don't make it easy either! You, just the temporary title holder... No joke, look this stuff up! You are not the proper owner of your own vehicle, the DMV just registers who is holding the property for the "corporation.." You hold the title of the vehicles, they hold title over YOU..

Untangling such things requires a full law degree. And to get one you must, at the end, take an oath to uphold the corrupt "System" over anything..

The more I learn, the more sad I become for those that have no clue what they're living in.

You have to play their game to do anything.. Why? Because, as a knowing participant in their system, I am not a land owner, just a branch of their corporation that is claiming temporarily a piece of land under their jurisdiction. You bet once I die my children will have to deal with an "Estate".. Because in their legal system, they have to then prove that they are the new rightful "owners" or "Deed holders", or the government will take that property as their own, and they do it all the time... And if you claim it, they will tax you to hold onto it, nice right?

Am I trying to figure out how to exit that system, within legal means as a patriot who wants true freedom? You bet your butt I am!

So I ask those who are patriotic, what does patriotism mean to you?

How far does my "Patriotism" go? Well I prefer not to say... But lets just say.. I believe that the military has had enough as well, and hopefully will begin to "buck" the system itself.. People are waking up, orders are being ignored..

Let's see what happens... But being a patriot doesn't necessarily mean we believe in the Bill of Rights, or even the Constitution, as I signed neither, nor did I personally accept anyone, handing me a "Bill", suggesting that somehow I now owe them any allegiance...

Or billing me for penalties of actions that I never committed.. Suggesting I am allowed only a few rights under this "Bill".. No one has the right to tell another what rights their entitled to, then squeeze them by way of subversion, into a tighter box with threats of fines, or imprisonment, or even death if they don't "Play Along".. It's all an illusion, agreed upon by citizens as we like to gt along and show we can be "Civilized.. " It is anything but "civil", what is happening in America and everywhere else... And we believe this is a good thing.. It's not.

And as a "Patriot", I feel it is my job to make people aware of such things.. Even if they feel hopeless to change them, being aware of such things is a step in the right direction.. Before we forget, and remain imprisoned for all time in this society. (Teach your children quietly comes to mind here)... It has to stop. We aren't choosing our elected officials, they're being presented to us, and it is very planned.. Only those top executives of the Corporation of the USA get to make those choices, and they squeeze out anyone who may "Wake the sheep"..

Times are changing though...

Am I a "Patriot" ..?? Yes, but not in the sense that you believe a Patriot to be. I believe in freedom for all..

It's not just about one Constitution, or one Corporation... It is slavery in general.. And those that believe that someone else, above them in the food chain, truly believes they have the right to tell you, that you are free to somehow impede another for ANY REASON, whether it be financially, physically, emotionally, by promoting fear over the masses... religiously, the list goes on... (up to, and including your own personal freedom... and sometimes your life...)

We all own this world and we should be able to live here freely.. So long as we live peacefully..

Hopefully optimistic perhaps.. But that is how I see things.. And I will continue to try to remove myself, and as many others as I can from this "system". It may mean we must take private planes, private boats, and such to places we want to go.. But you know what? I bet many are sick of this stuff. Perhaps we should start a corporation of our own, called the Freedom Corporation.. Write our expenses off as Corporate Expenses, Meetings, Traveling, etc..

But we would only be doing what the elite have been doing all along. And that would not truly make anyone free, just compliant.

The trick to being "free" in any country, is to know your enemy and their weaknesses. We are imprisoned by paperwork. Paperwork and the double talk, using "language" to confuse us. They won't teach you the mechanics of your own imprisonment.. It's up to us to learn such things..

Those "Trust fund" kids going to college to become the leaders of the future? Are going to school using funds set aside to them, based upon the future earnings of you.. The tax payer, and number filed with Social Security. They take the money, and trade it on the stock market. Betting that you will become more valuable in the future.. Which is why they call it "Futures"... And they decide who gets those degrees... Most can't afford that education.. And they are learning how to keep that system going.. Whether they realize it or not, but most do by the time they graduate.. They have to...

There is so much to learn, and even more to untangle yourself from such things.. I can't even begin to cover it here... The web is so huge at this point...

Yes I am a patriot... To freedom for all...

[EFO]

In my conception,being a patriot means to take care of each patch of land and each drop of water and every leaf of tree and any thread of grass and every living being on Earth.

Al the rest:religion,borders,armies,countries,banks,corporations and so on is bullsheet.:)

If the borders wouldn't existed,know I don't even know about Avalon enjoying my worldwide travel on land and water.

[Orph]

First amendment to Dennis's list: Are you patriotic to the New England Patriots? ----- Hell no.
(Sorry. Couldn't resist).

Anyway, I don't consider myself to be a patriot of anything no matter how that word is defined. I am "alive and aware" here in this 3d environment. I owe no allegiance to any man-made concept of, ..... well, ..... any man-made concepts at all. My only allegiance is to Source.

Yes, we live in a world where we have countries, religions, cultures, boundaries, etc.. And as such we have to live within certain parameters. I'm thankful for the things I have, but that doesn't mean I owe my allegiance to anything.

[ZenBaller]

I'm going to be that Greek to say that the word patriot comes from the Greek word πάτριος (patrios) which is derived by the word πατέρας (pateras), meaning father. It basically means something that belonged to our fathers and it is widely used for land.

The word comes from an obsolete patriarch status quo of older societies and it's still used with nationalistic tendencies.

At the moment, I am very happy to admit that humanity, through all its difficulties and pain, has come to a point in history where we can leave our nationality as a secondary feature for practical purposes only, and identify as a planetary collective.

We have come a long way as a species and grown from cellular consciousness to mammalian, familial, tribal, cultural, national and we're finally arriving to planetary and on to galactic as the next step for future generations.

So for all of us who are still trying to find truth in national identifications, I would recommend to take it a step higher. It's time.

[Forest Denizen]

Great thread, Dennis! :sun:

I have never regarded myself as a patriot in the classical sense. Denise/Dizi, your post above was, as always, deeply thoughtful and much appreciated.
And, Mike, I agree completely, we are VERY fortunate in so many ways.

I think I have always felt an unfathomably deep allegiance to and responsibility for Mother Earth.. Gaia. And I mean that in a deeply spiritual and heartfelt sense. Really, I feel such love and limitless compassion for this wonderful living jewel of a world.

She is such a profound gift that I am constantly conscious of. My deepest allegiance and affinity are toward Earth and, as Orph expressed, Source.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

I am a patriot to Source energy, alignment, best I can understand it.

My goal is to feel good by aligning with Source energy. I want clear 2 way communication with Source and Inner Being. I have a long way to go.

I want freedom, well being, joy, love, truth and harmony for all who want. I want it all.

My wish is that humans become so clever, so smart, so intuitive that humans can no longer be manipulated.

42859

[East Sun]

Denise/Dizi,

I really admire your intelligence and knowledge.

I have only heard one person in decades on the internet demonstrate a profound
knowledge of the political process and I can't remember his name but you probably
know of him.

He was given a hard time by the "powers" of that time. They don't want anyone
to be anywhere as knowledgeable as they are.

Most live their lives not knowing how they are being manipulated and die as innocents
never knowing the facts.

Is it better that they don't know?

I'm too old now to fight any battles of that proportion.
Living life as it was was enough.
Thank you! Denise/Dizi

[AutumnW]

Great thread.

I'm not sure how to answer it all exactly. All I know is that I'm on guard against sounding too negative about things.

I think it's a miracle when I wake up every day and there isn't rioting in the streets. I've felt that way for a long long time, well before this corona thing

People cooperate, in general, and assist each other against the great suffering of life. We've been doing it for a long time now. The doctor, the dentist, the plumber, the electrician, the garbageman..they are all there when we need them. It's amazing. And, in general, they are all decent people with a sincere desire to help. It's a blessing and a miracle

If you want to see family on the other side of the country or the world, you hop on this wonderful machine called an airplane, and you fly over enormous distances in a pretty short period of time and you're there. It's another enormous miracle.

We have running water. Wow. If that's all we had, and nothing else, that alone would be a reason to wake up in the morning with a profound sense of gratitude

But we also have plumbing, another enormous miracle, and electricity, and air conditioning, and heat, and refrigerators, and washers and dryers, and dish washers....all profound miracles. We have cable tv, the internet, and all various forms of brilliant art to fill the gaps in between our wonderful technologies.

Though largely imperfect, we have religions and spiritual systems and techniques in place that allow us to feel unity with and express gratitude for the creator that made all this possible

Human beings have worked and toiled for hundreds and thousands of years so we can have the lives we enjoy today. As crazy as it all seems at the moment, it's never been easier.

I live in the US, and if I feel a sense of patriotism it's because of everything I listed above. The patriotism I feel is mostly an enormous sense of gratitude for all the sacrifices and innovations that I'm benefiting from and enjoying...and the infrastructure in place that makes it all possible. It's a profound miracle.

Mike, You have to stop being so paranoid and bitter for your own sake. :dog:

[onawah]

Yeah, Mike. How the hell :rant: do you expect us to continue posting all the terrifying and depressing news about how the unsuspecting public is constantly being victimized if you keep on cheering us up and making us laugh and feel GRATITUDE, for God's sake! :mmph:
Get SERIOUS, man! :frusty:
YOU'RE MAKING OUR JOB HERE WAY TOO HARD!! :ballchain:



Great thread.

I'm not sure how to answer it all exactly. All I know is that I'm on guard against sounding too negative about things

Mike, You have to stop being so paranoid and bitter for your own sake. :dog:

I am a patriot of Gaia, of whom we all are a part, whether we know it or not.
https://gaia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/gaia-our-mission-1500x430.jpg

[onawah]

What about the Des Moines virus?
(Jon Rappaport, one of my favorite journalists, is a patriot too. Here's his little story about a patriot named Hero.)
What about the Des Moines virus?
3/24/20
by Jon Rappaport
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/24/what-about-the-des-moines-virus/

"Learning to love Big Brother, economic destruction, and the virus...
I'm waiting for a new kind of hero to emerge from the pack. This'll be a man who walks into a hospital and says, "I confess. I think I have the virus. I've been coughing. I have a slight fever. I didn't want to tell my neighbors. That was wrong. I'm guilty. I need help."

That's how it starts. But then a reporter gets a tip and writes a piece on Hero and it takes off. During the next week, while Hero is in isolation, he becomes famous. He's a true American, he's a true World Citizen.

This is how a new hero behaves. He self-confesses. That's the key. Then millions of people will love him. It's all love. Hero loves the State and his doctor, who gave him an antiviral that almost killed him, he loves the mayor of his city, who locked down a million citizens and threw thousands out of work, he loves the CDC, he loves social distancing, he loves the virus, because the virus taught him how to humble himself.

But what no one knows is, Hero is a bit eccentric. He tends to speak his mind. At least he used to, before he learned humility. It seems he's left all that behind...well, he had, until one day, when he was being interviewed, live, on global television, and his sensitive interviewer, a talking head framed with lots and lots of gray curls, in a moment of pensive sensitive silence, asked him what he was thinking. "Hero, what is it?"

And Hero said, "You know, Marmaduke, these viruses can come out of rainforests and travel to the West and infect us, because we've never developed immunity to them, and it's very dangerous. Well, why aren't tribes of natives in the rainforest decimated, because, think about it, people from the West travel there with viruses the natives have never been exposed to before."

"Excuse me?" Marmaduke says.

Hero keeps going. "We hear about epidemics starting in Africa and China and Mexico, but what about, say, Brooklyn? Isn't there a Brooklyn virus? I've thought about this a lot. I think it has to do with what people would be afraid of. Do you see? In the West, many people have a fear of Africa and China and Mexico. So if we tell them an epidemic of a virus started there, it makes sense to them. But if we said the DES MOINES VIRUS or the SCARSDALE VIRUS or the COLORADO SPRINGS VIRUS...it's hard to---"

Marmaduke: "Hero, I'm not sure---"

"No, really. You have to scare people. Otherwise, they won't follow orders. I mean, how can you get the whole country to go on lockdown and lose their jobs and close their businesses and stay six feet away from their friends, unless they're scared? The virus makes them scared. Or should I say, the IDEA of the virus. You have to have a good idea. Isn't that what made this country great? Great ideas? Being scared caused me to confess, and then I could love Big Brother and you and everybody. If the virus came from DES MOINES, I'd still be lying and pretending I wasn't INFECTED."

Marmaduke: "Hero, you're a true hero. We want to know about your journey, your experiences, your confession, how you prostrated yourself before---"

"But this IS my experience. I lost my job because of the lockdown. My boss had to shut down his company. He tried to commit suicide. That's pretty serious, wouldn't you say? When people stay home and their lives change radically, they need a reason. China is a good reason. Des Moines wouldn't be a good reason."

Marmaduke: "Hero, you're not making sense. Maybe the virus has affected your brain."

"I'm sure it has. But in a good way. Now, when I see empty streets, I feel uplifted. Citizens are obeying orders. I like that. I like to see people falling in line. People are dangerous, you know. You can never quite predict what they're going to do, even if you have wall to wall surveillance, which is what we have now. We need it. We need to love it. We need to convince the people the surveillance is necessary. That's where the virus comes in. You see, we're all buck privates in the army, and the World Health Organization is the Pentagon. This is the way the world needs to be organized. You know, I'm on welfare now. I thought I had a job doing a commercial for a toilet paper company, but they said I was overqualified. I was a hero. I was too good for the job."

Marmaduke's producer talks in Marmaduke's ear piece: "GET THIS FUNNY BUNNY OFF THE AIR. CUT IT SHORT. HE'S NUTS. YOU WANT TO FIND YOURSELF OUT IN THE STREET WITHOUT A JOB, YOU ASS? IF I LOSE MY JOB OVER THIS I'M GOING TO KILL YOU."

Hero was a hero no more. He faded from view.

The new hero was a skinny hatchet-faced blonde from the Hollywood Hills, who had cut herself while confessing to a medical team that she had hid her sniffle from her family. She bled, but the emergency crew saved her life. She's now the odds-on favorite to win a seat in the US Senate from California. Her campaign slogan is: MAKE PEOPLE PAY AND PAY AND PAY.

She's a beloved figure."
:nod:

[T Smith]

I'm going to make my response here really simple. Party, flag, and country are irrelevant to the question.

So why do I consider myself a patriot? Because I'd rather drown in my own mucus than to submit to Bill Gate's slave tag.

My apologies if that is too Patrick Henry for y'all... I'm tired and weary and on edge these days (perhaps not thinking rationally) and fear we all have profound soul searching in store in the very near future regarding the very question you're asking.

I for one am dangerously close to my line in the sand...

[AutumnW]

Yeah, Mike. How the hell :rant: do you expect us to continue posting all the terrifying and depressing news about how the unsuspecting public is constantly being victimized if you keep on cheering us up and making us laugh and feel GRATITUDE, for God's sake! :mmph:
Get SERIOUS, man! :frusty:
YOU'RE MAKING OUR JOB HERE WAY TOO HARD!! :ballchain:



Great thread.

I'm not sure how to answer it all exactly. All I know is that I'm on guard against sounding too negative about things

Mike, You have to stop being so paranoid and bitter for your own sake. :dog:

I am a patriot of Gaia, of whom we all are a part, whether we know it or not.
https://gaia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/gaia-our-mission-1500x430.jpg

Yeah... Take a hike, Mike. No wait...Take a cruise, Mike! LOL. Sorry Dennis. Back to main topic.

[Sunny-side-up]

Hi all, i'm not an American but I am a Human Earthling.
I hold my allegiance to anyone you is caring of their brother, sister, neighbour etc.

We have all been observing, taking note, learning and opening our eye's, we are knowing people.

Here in the UK south London in lock-down, well I hope:
The virus it's self will go soon and not cause more pain.
I hope this virus is not man (Demon) made.
I hope civilisation, city's, shops and businesses will recover back to near norm.
But I think it won't, they will be much nearer to a New World Order now.
Just a virus has shown to many that we, no matter how awake, can be controlled and taken out at a click of a finger 0.o
No matter how bold and knowing we might be.

[Karen (Geophyz)]

I consider myself a patriot to Mother Earth. I think it is my job to take care of her and pass the knowledge of caring for her along to others. My father and his family came from far away to America. My father was a tiny baby and my grandparents wanted him and his siblings to have a better life. They worked very hard when they got to America to learn the language and the ways of Americans. My father fought for this country, his country. He always said "whatever chair you are in during your life, you should sit up straight and proud and own it, be proud of it, defend your right to be in it." So I guess I am a patriot because I am proud to be here, in my chair, owning it.

[thepainterdoug]

I have yet to read all the responses, only the post. I'm sure I won't get a prize for my view, but I do consider myself a patriot . A patriot to the ideals of this country , the country I was born in.
The country formed by freeing itself from tyranny and oppression . And in that fight, the ideals of this free country were formed.

But I know the creature man, I know his ways and what he will do in any circumstance given time. So as the deck hands call for mutiny !! and the Captain and his generals are cast off the ship, then its the mutineers, the freedom fighters turn to take over , and to delegate who does what, who's shovels **** and swabs the deck and who gets to eat the best , drink the wine and run the show. Might makes right, and in short time, its time for mutiny all over again

When you defeat the authority, you become the authority "as Jim Morrison once said. So you better be ready with answers as to who will run things when it falls. Because it aint gonna be free love and daisies .

My wife Debbie, who passed on some 20 years ago always told me she didn't believe in women liberation. She believed, if you haven't built the skills as an individual, knowing the hand you were dealt in life , then you have disadvantaged yourself. No one owes you anything. You need to play the game for it , no different than we see in nature.

So I look to nature. It's not even . Nothing is fair or even. There are the big and powerful and the small and weak. But the small use speed and cunning, and though the mighty lion get the best of the kill, all others feed of it down to the microbes.

Im a patriot to the ideals and dreams of this Country. Because in my opinion, its the best of all Bad systems. Nothing is good in this 3 d density called earth for the simple reason that nothing is permanent and all needs to be fought for and eventually lost. Its a hard world period .

So I have assessed who I am and what I can do and be with my skills and intelligence .And I have been free to pursue these things in this Country USA that I live. I don't mind the corporations, let them be what they are like the big lion. I will find a way to work around them or benefit from them. If I make a widget, then those many who work at the corporations can buy my widget.
For without the need to own everything, I can enjoy everything free, a rainbow, a sunset etc.

There is a lot wrong here. but I have never let a President change the way I live life. Have I been lucky?? you bet. But I have made allot of my own luck by learning skills that had real value, auto mechanics, carpentry, rebuilding pianos, playing music and making art. I learned them when others were becoming corporate big wigs .

Im not a blind patriot to this Country , its leaders or its present moment in time . Just its ideals . And in my opinion, that why so many want in.

[Caliban]

Dennis

Amazing post. And Denise's response was quite a volley back. Impressive.

I just think so many of us, particularly in the U.S., are so disillusioned with our governments that it's very hard for us to even define anymore what patriotism is and how we feel about "love for our country."

It used to be that patriotism was established in people as they grew up by noticing the connections their families had with their neighbors. Who knows their neighbors anymore? Who looks out for their neighbors anymore? See this video I posted where she addresses this as part of what we're going through now: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109753-The-Wuhan-Coronavirus-Covid-19-the-Honey-Badger-virus&p=1343268&viewfull=1#post1343268 Go to 17:30

If we're not connected to people in our VERY community, like the five blocks surrounding us, how can we expect to have a greater feeling for our country as a whole? Here on Avalon you see people on this thread saying things like "I'm a patriot of the world as a whole," and yeah, sure--you're here on Avalon and you've been spiritually evolving and educating yourself. I would like to know though, how well they know their neighbors and do they look out for each other?

When you see workers being constantly sold down the river by local gov'ts profiting from the presence of these mega corporations you tend to get a little bitter about being patriotic. Amazon, Wal Mart, you name them. They treat workers almost like slaves. Are there any apprenticeship programs anymore? I haven't seen evidence of them in years. No, it's easier to hire day laborers whom you can underpay and avoid insurance costs, etc. I mention that because that's how you used to cement the feeling of community, hence patriotism--by offering ways for young people to learn a trade and build a career. And does Silicon Valley have training programs for young people? Or do they push for the visas to bring in low paid workers?

In the age of "globalization" people are drifting further and further apart. I would guess that most of us on here express our most expansive visions more so here, on Avalon, than in real life, with face to face people. That's all I got for now.

[Strat]

Good thread and something that's been in the back of my mind for a while. At the end of the day the question is relative to the individual so I try not to think about it too much. It's a label, apply it to me or don't, the world keeps spinning and my well being is unaffected.

In interest of answering the question: I consider myself patriotic. I read US history often and I love the people in my community. I love Florida the land and it's rich history.

[DeDukshyn]

I am starting to view things more like the natives.

I feel like I belong to this land ... not the country. I'm not seeing borders that solidly anymore, except as distinctive cells in a giant control mechanism.

[Mike]

Dennis I've thought more about your thread since I originally answered, and I want to try to answer the specific questions you've asked in your OP. They're excellent questions and deserve a more specific response.

- Am I patriotic towards my country? I have to say yes, but it has its limits. I struggled with this question - it's so simple sounding but so layered: I was struggling with the exact definition of patriotism and country, and struggling to then attempt to render something coherent from all that cognitive mess.

When I watch the World Cup, for example, I am fervently rooting on the United States. That's perhaps a little superficial, but it's a point of reference that's allowed me to at least ground my thoughts in something clear and basic.

However, even as I was writing that, I had to admit to myself that I feel much more loyal towards my hometown teams in Syracuse. I can't help but root for them. It's in my blood. I recall, as a boy, crying uncontrollably when they lost the national championship to Indiana in 1987. That's my home, it always will be, and the connection between it and my mind and my soul will never be broken.

That all sounds a bit silly maybe - sports teams. Even now I'm wondering what Syracuse basketball represents to me, and what U.S soccer represents to me. I don't really give a sh!t about the university itself, per se, and the university doesn't give a sh!t about me either...only insomuch as it applies to ticket sales perhaps, i.e. how many I've bought over the years. I grow fond of specific players but that's all very transient of course; they move on and are replaced by other players quite frequently.

See, I'm already having difficulty explaining what it is I feel loyal towards exactly when it comes to Syracuse hoops and US soccer. It's all fuzzy and vague. And as I elaborate upwards towards something infinitely more complex, like our country and everything that entails, my cognitive dissonance only grows

I can say that I'm loyal to Syracuse because I was born there. That seems a good place to start. I also feel a natural affinity towards the north, perhaps for the same reason. I was also born in the U.S., so I feel similarly loyal in that respect, but less so because I was never personally involved in roughly 99% of it. Of course I was also born on earth too, in the larger context, but as much as I appreciate her I don't feel the same sense of loyalty because of a lack of rivalrous relationships. And I think this is where we really get into the crux of the matter..

Things like loyalty and patriotism require rivalrous relationships to exist. There's us and there's them. Much of it is motivated by fear. A thought that may emerge from this type of dynamic is this: our country may have it's faults, but it's better than country X,Y, and Z.. and we have to stay ahead of country X, Y, and Z in every way so that our values and way of life continue to exist and thrive. Thousands of brave soldiers died to protect our values and way of life, and it's our duty to make sure they did not die in vain.

That's a slippery approach. Intellectually it can be picked apart, but it also has some undeniable truth to it. Regardless of how or why all the various wars were started, and regardless of how corrupt they are, real flesh and blood people - people brave and courageous and principled beyond belief! - went and fought them with full confidence that their effort was for the greater good of their country. That deserves the highest respect. It deserves the highest honor. So when considering patriotism, the efforts of those remarkable men and women need to be removed and categorized separately from the often times corrupt government that sends them off to fight for nefarious ends.

I am not patriotic towards my military unilaterally, but I do respect the f#ck out of our soldiers.

Nor am I patriotic towards my government unilaterally, but I do respect some of our government officials...though the list is getting smaller and smaller.

The military industrial complex, the corporations running the political parties behind the scenes, the shadow government, the flag, american exceptionalism, etc...they're all like cancerous growths on a loved one who has many faults but is nonetheless solid in spirit. When considering patriotism one has to not make the mistake of conflating the growths with the loved one.

And what exactly is the "loved one" in this clumsy analogy? For me it's a little abstract maybe, but it's the spirit of what america was supposed to be. It's roots are in the constitution of course. The original document that is..which has become more disregarded and irrelevant as time has gone on. So, much of my patriotism is rooted in hope. It's like being in a loving but challenging relationship with someone you once knew as wonderful and lovely, but has lost their way..and you're clinging to the hope that they one day might reclaim their former glory. At what point do we accept that their current incarnation is who they will likely be forever and give up on the hope that they might return to their former selves? People have a hard time answering the patriotism question because of that, and also because they don't quite know which parts of the current incarnation are actually the once principled individual and which were forced upon it

Many will lump it all together mindlessly and with no regret at all, because due to the nature of rivalrous relationships between the countries on earth, they've decided that those are all sacrifices they're willing to make in order to stay on the top of the heap..or to at least maintain the illusion of staying on top of the heap.

The underlying issue is spiritual bankruptcy I think. If we were to remove ourselves from fear collectively and grow spiritually, our sense of patriotism would grow outwardly - at least hypothetically - to include other countries, the earth, the solar system, other galaxies, the universe, and everything else this existence has to offer.

[AutumnW]

I am starting to view things more like the natives.

I feel like I belong to this land ... not the country. I'm not seeing borders that solidly anymore, except as distinctive cells in a giant control mechanism.

i feel the same way...a loyalty to the land and perhaps my locale, as Mike states below, but "love of country," has such negative connotations to me, I can't get behind it. When Canadians get too carried away with patriotic moral superiority, it can be cringey. Look how we treated and still treat Native peoples? Not cool. I am patriotic to our health care system though!

[DeDukshyn]

.... I am patriotic to our health care system though!

As ****ty as it is sometimes, I do concur. I am happy to see my tax dollars going to help anyone who needs it in this situation.