The face mask discussion

[TomKat]

I do not.

Apparently it breaks down into political parties in the US:

https://www.chron.com/coronavirus/article/Across-nation-masks-are-the-latest-political-15212437.php

It was a beautiful day today, 70 degrees, nice breeze. So waiting in line to get into the store was not so bad. About half the people had masks on. A maskless lady had left her barking dog in her car with the windows well-cracked, so no danger to the dog. A masked man questioned why she didn't leave the dog home and eventually she allowed herself to be bullied into leaving the car running with the a/c on. That behaviour seems to line up with the political divide mentioned in the article above. Republicans are calling the pandemic the dempanic...

[wondering]

Sounds like another attempt at division to me. I don’t consider myself either party. I live outside Detroit, where COVID #’s, fake or not, are high. There are apparently real people dying, as far as I can tell, although not as many as the stats would have us believe. I am 77, and care for my husband who has significant health issues and is 10 years older than I am. I think it is overhyped for sure. What do you think, do I wear one or not?

[DeDukshyn]

I do not, and I tell people not to bother.

The surgical masks are designed to keep you from "speaking moistly" on people. They are designed to keep the user from spitting out germ laden particles onto others. The blue inner material is different from the white outer material for this purpose. The proper usage is to put one on, conduct your immediate business where you want to keep your "moistness" from getting onto the subject, then immediately discarded.

Healthcare workers and sick people should be the only ones wearing them - to prevent the spread of their germs (Healthcare workers are also of greatest risk of having infection but not knowing it - they need the masks for this purpose as well)

The issues with wearing them are these: You get a false sense of security - viruses can just as easily get into your eyes -- so if you are going to wear a mask, might as well wear a blindfold too, else you aren't really doing much.

Wearing a mask all day just collects spit and germs that you are constantly breathing through - this is gross and not hygienic - they are intended for shorter term use.

Wearing a mask makes your face sweat and itch -- this greatly increases your chances of touching your face to adjust it and scratch the itches, and if you also wear gloves, I bet you don't wash your gloves all the time --- they're just collecting dirt and germs that you will touch your face with - gross and unhelpful.

So no, I do not and will not wear masks for logical reasoning of understanding what they do and don't do. My take is they are generally unhelpful and may increase your risk.


I'm not sure who these "scientists" are that say you should be wearing them (as per the linked article) ... almost all healthcare experts and doctors in Canada are recommending against wearing them.

[Constance]

I know that this has been posted elsewhere but this is such an excellent presentation by Dr. Zach Bush, it warrants being cross - posted here.

Zach says it all better than I ever could.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2d2kIJO0K0

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

No. This is just my choice - I do not pretend to speak for everyone and I say let people do what makes them feel comfortable. Unfortunately, the mask serves as a bit of an energetic "muzzle", so be aware of that effect. Also, many people wearing masks are feeling a great deal of fear, which is absolutely contagious!! People without masks tend to be vibrating at a slightly higher frequency, in general.

I can often "see" this virus circulating in the auric field of people in public. It's blue with sort of sparkly bits. Not many people are actually carrying it here in Oregon.If your immune system is strong it does not really attach. My partner had it for two weeks - dry cough, conjunctivitis, fatigue. However, the virus never really "took hold". I was aware several times of the virus entering my nasal passage and throat. My intuitive sense is that it needs to attach to something else in the body's physical field. This could be residual virus bits from vaccinations, or cellular disturbances due to the infamous "co-morbidities", it's not clear. Good thoughts to all - may you experience good health and joy.

[DaveToo]

No I do not wear one.
I never will.
Yes thanks Constance. In that video the doctor says that most masks are made with plastics that release tiny particles into your lungs when you breathe.
Those particles can be potentially more harmful than the virus.

Those who wear or advocate the use of masks by others, think about this.

So far there have allegedly been 176,000 deaths due to Covid-19.
Each year there are between 350,000-650,000 deaths worldwide due to the seasonal flu.

Both diseases are worldwide pandemics.
Yet for some strange reason the seasonal flu is largely ignored, while the sexy Covid-19 gets all the paranoid PTB-controlled press.

You are just as likely to become infected by the seasonal flu as you are by Covid-19.

That being the case, I ask those who wear masks now, do you wear one when you go outside during the flu season or do you see others (50% of the population) in your area wearing masks as a protective measure at that time?

[TargeT]

Sure don't, but I don't go around non-friends either way (and rarely above 10 people total) so I guess I've pretty much always been social distancing.

also, I don't buy into fear porn.

[XelNaga]

I do not wear mask, except when I have to (because of work I do, some companies won't let you inside without a mask). Since start of all this, I've put it on 3 times, and always feel like an idiot for doing so, like this little piece of fabric/plastic/paper can protect you from "super deadly worst of all" virus :facepalm:

[norman]

No.

When I see a mask wearing shopper, I look away in the same way I don't look cops in the eyes.

I haven't analysed why I do it. I just know it's the same response.

[RunningDeer]

Up until the official mandate, I didn’t wear a mask. This morning I wrapped a scarf around my head and face because it’s required while grocery shopping. Next time I’ll use a make-shift mask from a bandana.

I received word that a cousin died last Friday of the Coronavirus. She was in her early 70's and in ill health. She lived in Boston, Massachusetts.

New York, Maryland, Connecticut, and some cities such as Los Angeles, California and Northampton, Massachusetts, Miami, Florida, and Chickasha, Oklahoma are ordering residents to wear masks in places such as grocery stores and pharmacies. (see others below)


DIY No Sew Face Mask Easy and Quick for Anyone (1:38 minutes)
1r2C1zGUHbU


Where are you required to wear a face mask?
More and more states, cities and towns making it a rule.

article (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/16/coronavirus-face-masks-where-are-coverings-required/5144193002/)



“There is no nationwide mandate, although President Donald Trump two weeks ago announced the recommendation by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention  that people at least use a simple cloth face covering when they are in public spaces such as grocery stores and transit stations. “


A sampling of some locales already requiring a face mask:

• Laredo, Texas: The West Texas city issued an emergency mandate last month for anyone over five to wear “some form of covering over their nose and mouth” while in taxis, public transportation or inside a public building. Violators could face a fine up to $1,000.

• Beverly Hills: Locals are under orders to cover their face when outdoors, even just for a walk. “While we continue to ask our community members to remain at home, those who do go outside and the people they encounter will be safer,” Beverly Hills Mayor Lester Friedman said in a statement.

• Miami: Face coverings are required for people going into restaurants, grocery stores, pharmacies and other retail stores. Miami Mayor Francis Suarez said police will enforce the measure but will help educate people before issuing fines, according to The Sun Sentinel. Similar rules are in effect in Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade counties.

• Chickasha, Oklahoma: People within the city limits are required to wear a cloth face mask when making a public outing for essential activities, according to KFOR.

• Riverside County, California: Residents must wear face coverings in public or face a $1.000 fine.

• Northampton, Massachusetts: A new city rule takng effect Wednesday requires all consumers and employees to wear face coverings at all times at any businesses providing essential services within the city when social distancing cannot be maintained.

[meeradas]

Whereever you're getting fined for not wearing one and can't avoid it,
write something on it, like "state-imposed muzzle", or "plandemic gag order", or whatever...
your creativity is limitless and cannot be taken away.

PS: I might as well leave my motorcycle helmet on for shopping, to mitigate the CO2 re-intake...

[TomKat]

PS: I might as well leave my motorcycle helmet on for shopping, to mitigate the CO2 re-intake...

I need a full biohazard suit that looks like a space suit. That would make the sanctimonious mask-wearers feel inferior :-)

[DaveToo]

PS: I might as well leave my motorcycle helmet on for shopping, to mitigate the CO2 re-intake...

I need a full biohazard suit that looks like a space suit. That would make the sanctimonious mask-wearers feel inferior :-)

I have been thinking about doing this for a few weeks now!
I would too.
But the problem is that I don't have one and if I tried to order one it would take months to arrive! :(
The look on strangers' faces would be worth the price of admission alone! :)

[RunningDeer]

PS: I might as well leave my motorcycle helmet on for shopping, to mitigate the CO2 re-intake..
Some other creative chaps. It’s the first 2:30 minutes of the vid. My favorite is the scuba diver.


https://i.imgur.com/grtK50R.jpg

They Walk Among Us!
5QyrSMfZ6cY

[DaveToo]

Since I don't have a hazmat suit, I thought of a good alternative.
I have a halloween mask that I will take with me to the store the next time I go shopping for groceries.
I also have a loop I made of 'Don't Stand So Close To Me' that I will play.
Of course I'll be shooting all of this on my phone. :)

[Hermoor]

I choose not to and can't see that changing any time soon.

I trust my immune system and the natural processes of Mother Nature far more than I'd ever trust the agenda of the parasites.

If coerced by my government and all the turkeys in my community who keep on voting for Christmas, then I'd probably opt for a sack a la Joseph Merrick look. Then I'd get a honking great big marker pen and graffiti it up as meeradas suggested, well played Sir!

[DeDukshyn]

PS: I might as well leave my motorcycle helmet on for shopping, to mitigate the CO2 re-intake...

I need a full biohazard suit that looks like a space suit. That would make the sanctimonious mask-wearers feel inferior :-)

I saw a guy put on a full head to toe auto paint booth suit and mask before going into the produce store the other day ... :facepalm:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1057/2854/products/3986_1024x1024.jpg

I'm all for taking a few precautions but things are getting ridiculous in regards to the fear -- people are just saturated in it. Went to get gas today ... the pumps are 25 feet apart, and they had blocked off every second one because I guess 25 feet is too close? ... why not just close the shop?

[DaveToo]

Speaking about masks...

Here's one that's bound to happen in the future, especially litigious U.S.

The government eventually lifts the quaranatine measures saying it is now safe to go out and resume business.
Young man in his 20's contracts Covid-19 a few weeks later and dies in hospital. Family sues the government for $50 million for claiming it was safe to resume business.

And of course the government defense would be (now that Covid-19 scare is over and big numbers are now not needed) well yes, he was Covid-19 positive, but he died from other complications not from Covid-19.

[Ivanhoe]

Nope.
I have a smoker's cough occasionally and I coughed at Home Depot the other day. Man you shoulda seen the looks I got from a couple of people.
I couldn't help but laugh to myself.
Paranoia strikes deep. LOL

[Bluegreen]

I wear one when I go to the store because I want to be polite

[Terry777]

I don't wear a mask at the local stores in my little community, but I wear one in the large box stores with facial recognition. I was the first person to do so and I could tell how nervous people looked back then. I also have sunglasses with reading lenses, so I always keep my sunglasses on. In the Pacific Northwest it's not uncommon for people to wear N95 masks during forest fire season, and pollen season. I have a bunch of N95s for burning brush piles, mowing, woodworking, etc.

[Sue (Ayt)]

No. Where I live, very few wear masks. It is so laid back, that you would hardly know there was a virus if you didn't have any media. I'm grateful I am where I am.
If I had to travel somewhere, like to a city, I would probably wear one.

[AutumnW]

I had to go to the bank the other day, so wore a surgical mask to protect the teller. First time I have been in an enclosed space in a month. The masks are uncomfortable. My glasses fogged up and so, yeah. I don't see that particular kind as being particularly useful for the wearer. Maybe the opposite. But...it will protect front line employees, if they aren't masked, so its important to use them in certain situations.

[waves]

No.
And when I take a walk and people coming the other way start walking single file or moving away I smile and say with a mock threatening voice...
"If you come near me I'm going to give you a hug!"

[Tam]

Yes, absolutely, and you should, too.


The principle behind normalizing the wearing of masks isn't to keep you from getting sick. It's to help minimize spread by limiting how many droplets of saliva you expel by simply speaking/breathing, droplets which, if infected, could very well transmit the virus to another person, and so on. Are masks fool-proof? Absolutely not. And nobody is saying they are, either. At least, nobody with basic sense. But they do help. And help isn't hurting anyone. Something is better than nothing.


Look at countries where wearing masks during sickness has been a cultural, standard practice for decades. South Korea, Singapore, Japan. Look at how much lower their infection rates per capita are, despite how their population is several times denser than, say, the US or Canada. Normalized wearing of masks has no small role in lower transmission rates in these nations. It's not a matter of politics there, or of trusting the government. It's something you just do, without thinking twice, long before this virus was a thing. It's accepted as a viable way to minimize spread of sickness, as well as basic manners and consideration to those around you.


I'm noticing this one little nugget of misinformation spreading like wildfire; the idea that wearing masks is meant to keep you, the wearer, safe from transmission. Not so. It is well known that the virus is so miniscule that unless you have N-95 or better, it's going to pass right through your homemade number.


The principle behind wearing masks is simply to reduce the odds of an infection person spreading it to others, as less saliva droplets make their way out into the air for an unsuspecting passerby to come into contact with. That's it. Nothing more.


That's what experts say, that's what they're advocating, and the only reason why it wasn't stressed from early on was to prevent mass hoarding of masks that would cause a shortage for those who need them (healthcare workers, etc).


This mask/no mask debate is ridiculous. What do we have to lose by wearing masks? And please, spare us the angsty, melodramatic argument that it normalizes authoritarianism or some such nonsense. That argument holds as much water as God damned colander.


Our great grandparents were drafted in a world war and forced to fight and endure horrible, traumatic evils to keep the world in something of a functional state.


We're being asked to stay inside, entertain ourselves, and wear face masks. It shouldn't be this difficult.


I find it ironic that many people who dismiss this pandemic as a hoax caution us not to buy into fearmongering sensationalism then turn around and spread half-baked fear-porn about how the "lockdown" is three steps away from an Orwellian regime that renders the ghettoes of the Holocaust cute in comparison.


While there's certainly more than meets the eye to this pandemic, and while the PTB will surely not let this opportunity go to waste, it seems the ugly head of partisan politics has somehow snaked its way into what is arguably the least partisan issue out there: a f*cking global pandemic.


Make no mistake, this virus is very real, it's far more virulent and violent than the flu, it takes no prisoners, and if you think the lockdown is bad now, just you wait and see how much worse it will get if people keep on dismissing the virus and carrying on as usual. Nature doesn't give a **** who you voted for, she will mercilessly wipe you off the face of the Earth if she has to.


What do you think will happen when we reopen the economy too soon, and people go back to "normal" life and the infection rate skyrockets? When the healthcare system collapses and mass graves are the last resort that become standard?


If there were ever something to usher in a Brave New Regime, it would be that.


So, please.


Untwist you panties, get those rusted critical thinking gears turning again, and wear a damn mask. It's not like they're used diapers.


This is getting ridiculous.

[waves]

What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.

[Bill Ryan]

What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.

Mod note from Bill:

Man alive, you can be a nasty piece of work sometimes. That vicious, unnecessary post should really be deleted, but I'm leaving it here because I want everyone here to read it.

[Agape]

Fortunately I had whole pack of them in my medical bag as they are now compulsory to wear in public places here and turned out to be valued item.
It’s not an absolute rule but theoretically you can be fined for refusing to wear one.

Personally, I should have opted for wearing it while the traffic went insanely high during last couple of years at certain places like all the Tokyoites do but I did not want to “show off”. My fault though.
I had constant sore throats, nose and breathing problems because of the pollution and dust on roads but gave up on myself in a way, that time.
Paradoxically enough, during the recent curfew while almost all traffic was halted for a month now,
this is the first time after many years I started recovering.


Feeling so grateful to be able to breathe freely again but dislike the masks anyway:)

It just made me to think about the original meaning of hijabs( and whatever those were called) by nomadic tribes living in desert as a protection against subtle sand blowing to their face constantly.
You could probably find how they worked in some old fashioned movies such as Lawrence of Arabia :)

They definitely had more than one practical usage before they were turned to “religious symbol”.

It’s sarcastic how the movement to ban head and face covers aka hijabs was now so fastly replaced by mass and compulsory use of face masks.

There’s a lesson in it anyway and what everyone potentially exposed to viral epidemics should know, if for real, cover your head please 🙏

Your eyes are very small compared to the rest of your head, especially if you have hair( but also if you don’t).
The “hair net” multiplies the space where anything tiny can be caught most easily. If having to go to any public or dusted places ever in my life I always end up washing my hair after coming back.
Of course your hair touch your face and carry all the dust till washed out thoroughly.

So if there’s a danger of contamination, use your caps, hats, scarves and hoodies and wash your hair each time after coming back from outside.

They’re quite fine to be lost and regrow naturally, there’s nothing to be sorry about rather than carrying the dust to your clean homes.


To get contaminated through eyes is actually not that easy( think of venom spitting cobra) if you maintain decent social distances.
Don’t try to prove yourself silly and put your face close to anything.



I’ve seen couple of travellers around recently who “can’t bear the injustice” and instinctively bump to and around people as they always did, with dirty hands and bag packs in sort of teenage revolt.

Feels weird as if some people never received proper social upbringing, such as waiting till other people pass on at the doors or maintaining proper social distance.

There is this overall phenomenon of uncontrolled energy of humans coming to obvious one way or another, it’s just more visible now. Some people seem to need to constantly “have it” with others.
When they can’t it offends them.

One would tell them to go back to their mothers and kindergartens but they’re mostly people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, even older with big bulky bodies who just behave as if they were “little kids”.

I think that face mask is actually short term solution, should be put on in target situations, certainly not to be worn all day.

Silk scarves are actually quite perfect as well and can be washed.



🙏🌸🙏

[Bill Ryan]

This 8 minute video by James Corbett makes the simple point that there's all the difference in the world between someone personally choosing to self-isolate (or wear a mask) — and being legally obliged to do so.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmHRYzF0dyQ

[Ernie Nemeth]

This particular argument is a fundamental one. In the name of the sick and infirm we are to halt our normal lives for the foreseeable future. Yet we don't stop driving cars - the number one killer in the world. We continue to pollute our environment - and that kills many many more but that don't stop us.

In the climate of sensationalism, a single, solitary cloud in the sky causes news stories of perfect storms and storms of the century! Anything is fair game so long as the ratings continue to climb.

What is the difference between forcing me to carry insurance to drive my car, a risk I am willing to take without a monetary investment (especially the inflated prices of an industry protected by law and sanctioned to police themselves and act honorably), and forcing me to wear a mask and stay at home? It is just a sliding scale of injustice and an insult to the right to self-determination. I do not get sick either but I have had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars into the common pot, when of course were it private the cost would be much lower, especially since I never need to avail myself of it.

So to be forced to put our lives on hold, and hold the sick and infirm above our own selfish needs, is just another step on the path to total domination and the capitulation of our god-given rights.

This is the exact same argument for vaccines. Forcing me to take the risk of adverse reactions to a drug that is worse than the disease in order to alleviate the symptoms of the most vulnerable is not only immoral and illogical, it is down-right insane.

[Matt P]

What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.

Mod note from Bill:

Man alive, you can be a nasty piece of work sometimes. That vicious, unnecessary post should really be deleted, but I'm leaving it here because I want everyone here to read it.

I am incredibly disappointed to see this comment Bill. I see PA is becoming infected like the rest of the world now. And, no, not by corona virus. By ignorance. Tam’s rant was so full of propaganda bulls**t I don’t know where to start. Waves was spot on in the response. There is ample evidence to destroy Tam’s two biggest points. One, masks do NOTHING to stop the spread of the virus. It spreads, peaks and declines whether you wear masks or don’t, isolate or don’t, lockdown or don’t, twist or untwist your panties. Two, and this was the biggest of Tam’s PROVEN LIES, this is NOT more virulent than the seasonal flu. This is the LIE that started this lunatic panic and all the data coming in now supports that corona virus is absolutely not more dangerous. The virus is not a hoax but the panic and destruction from it will soon be recognized as a false flag like 9/11 but on a scale never before seen. If you’re not already seeing the data proving this you are simply not paying attention to good sources. I expect better from you Bill.

Matt

[edit: and btw, thanks for leaving waves’ post, otherwise I wouldn’t have seen at least one other person on here understands what is going on]

[Ratszinger]

What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.

Mod note from Bill:

Man alive, you can be a nasty piece of work sometimes. That vicious, unnecessary post should really be deleted, but I'm leaving it here because I want everyone here to read it.

I am incredibly disappointed to see this comment Bill. I see PA is becoming infected like the rest of the world now. And, no, not by corona virus. By ignorance. Tam’s rant was so full of propaganda bulls**t I don’t know where to start. Waves was spot on in the response. There is ample evidence to destroy Tam’s two biggest points. One, masks do NOTHING to stop the spread of the virus. It spreads, peaks and declines whether you wear masks or don’t, isolate or don’t, lockdown or don’t, twist or untwist your panties. Two, and this was the biggest of Tam’s PROVEN LIES, this is NOT more virulent than the seasonal flu. This is the LIE that started this lunatic panic and all the data coming in now supports that corona virus is absolutely not more dangerous. The virus is not a hoax but the panic and destruction from it will soon be recognized as a false flag like 9/11 but on a scale never before seen. If you’re not already seeing the data proving this you are simply not paying attention to good sources. I expect better from you Bill.

Matt

[edit: and btw, thanks for leaving waves’ post, otherwise I wouldn’t have seen at least one other person on here understands what is going on]

Where are you getting your numbers and data from? Fox has the source info from WHO, CDC, ECDC, and NHC and they say total cases USA 823,257 and 44,805 have died which equates to 5.45% death rate! So what to you is a good source? The death toll from this, if we are to believe the numbers presented, has doubled in a week. I don't know where to check but I don't recall hearing about that happening with regular flu.

[Bill Ryan]

What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.

Mod note from Bill:

Man alive, you can be a nasty piece of work sometimes. That vicious, unnecessary post should really be deleted, but I'm leaving it here because I want everyone here to read it.

I am incredibly disappointed to see this comment Bill. I see PA is becoming infected like the rest of the world now. And, no, not by corona virus. By ignorance. Tam’s rant was so full of propaganda bulls**t I don’t know where to start. Waves was spot on in the response. There is ample evidence to destroy Tam’s two biggest points. One, masks do NOTHING to stop the spread of the virus. It spreads, peaks and declines whether you wear masks or don’t, isolate or don’t, lockdown or don’t, twist or untwist your panties. Two, and this was the biggest of Tam’s PROVEN LIES, this is NOT more virulent than the seasonal flu. This is the LIE that started this lunatic panic and all the data coming in now supports that corona virus is absolutely not more dangerous. The virus is not a hoax but the panic and destruction from it will soon be recognized as a false flag like 9/11 but on a scale never before seen. If you’re not already seeing the data proving this you are simply not paying attention to good sources. I expect better from you Bill.

MattOkay, cool down! :P

Masks protect others if one is (or may be) infectious oneself. That's why surgeons and dentists wear them — not to protect themselves, but to protect their patients.

Tam is worried she has the virus (she has many of the symptoms), but like many in the US, she hasn't been tested.

You see, waves could have made her point in any other way. But she chose not to. It was needlessly vicious. (Vicious is exactly the right word to use.)

Read it again and then put yourself in Tam's position. I wonder how she felt when she read that.

The point about obedience to authority can be made (and has rightly been made in many posts on the forum, with which I agree) without launching into an unpleasant personal attack on another member.

Many of waves' posts are very aggressive, and always have been. I can say that straight, because they simply are. I'm not being unfair or exaggerating here. Just read them.
(Ironically, I defended her many times against Paul, who strongly wanted her unsubscribed about a year and a half ago. My disagreement with Paul about that was one of the many straws-on-the-camel's-back reasons to his eventually leaving the forum.)
Here's the issue. We don't need to be like that to debate interesting points. (And the mask issue is interesting, and worth discussing.) This isn't reddit, or 4chan, or a bunch of snarky YouTube comments all in a chain. We should be proud of the way we conduct ourselves here.

I know many members are on edge at the moment — and understandably so — but things are slipping a little on some threads. (There are quite a few threads I don't even read any more, so I genuinely have no idea what other mudfights may have been taking place.)

Back to masks. In the Czech republic, where the citizens decided for themselves to all wear masks, the Covid-19 R0 has been brought down to 0.8 for the last week. As best I know, and although it's early days yet, that's the first country where that's happened.

The real issue here is whether mask-wearing (and "social distancing") is enforced or not. Not what one chooses to do of one's own sovereign free will. That's the point James Corbett was making in the short video I posted above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1352434&viewfull=1#post1352434).

:focus:

[wegge]

Two years ago I read Casanova’s memoirs and how, if they wanted to go through the city without someone noticing them (in their adultery), they’d put on face masks. And I thought, how cool would that be if that became vogue again. So I guess my dream came true in a distorted fashion, yet it’s a possibility to take up a role in this weird act of the human drama. (And have some fun with it)

[Ratszinger]

I do wear a face mask but only when I go out. Contrary to popular belief here they do prevent the spread of disease and are highly effective in reducing the number of feet a sneeze or a cough can go out away from the person doing the sneezing or coughing for example! Masks prevent people accidentally spitting out away from the body and they also prevent one from touching parts of the face, nose and mouth, all areas highly open and prone to being entry points and since it's many times the fingers doing the contaminating and not the breathing yes the masks do prevent the spread of disease! DO NOT let anyone tell you otherwise! That is my two cents!

[Ernie Nemeth]

I know this thread is about masks. I also agree they can help contain the spread, although the virus is hardy and can remain intact in the air and solid surfaces, so the air is already contaminated in common areas regardless. Best to keep the mucus secretions up if you know how.

The virus threatens those we love, I am personally affected too. I would rather err on the side of caution for selfish reasons. But this has gone too far. Do not over-sell me with propaganda. Do not try and convince me that the world suddenly cares about its citizens, especially a mere .01%. This is a power move and we had better decide now which future we wish to usher in with our decisions today.

If we care so much about people let's tackle the big killers and leave the small stuff to sort itself out. Let's just all stay indoors forever - I'm sure the feds can send us all money to order online indefinitely...

[Matt P]

Cool down? We’re in the start of the mother of all false flags, the global economy is being destroyed for a common cold virus that can be beaten with items from your own kitchen, millions are out of work and suffering, our God given freedoms are being eliminated and you want me to be calm?

I’m on my way to work so I have just a couple minutes. I have dozens and dozens of links to share but will just do a couple. The MSM is ignoring all doctors and scientists who agree our response is ridiculous.


Fauci, New England Journal of Medicine, March 26, “Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted”:

“If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)…”

Majority of hospitals are empty and laying off staff.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/bill-sardi/virus-fearmongerers-prevail/

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/

https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2020/04/17/what-the-wuhan-virus-on-the-uss-theodore-roosevelt-tells-us-about-what-we-should-do-next/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAtKnciEVB4&feature=youtu.be

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WGbYHJcMbz8

https://www.brasscheck.com/video/what-an-md-who-is-also-a-senator-says/?omhide=true

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/why-is-who-demanding-sweden-lockdown-because-they-show-the-lockdown-makes-no-difference/

I have dozens more...

Who funds the WHO?
Who funds the CDC?
Is any of MSM reliable for info?

[Agape]

It’s the New Moon day/night today, dear friends. The energy is low everywhere, we all are plum tired of it after a month of quarantine. Here in India you have to “play by the rules” no matter how absurd it feels.
No matter what you think and how much you disagree unless you’re so great to suggest something better as a scientist.
The government has several Nobel laureates on the advisory panel who are independent thinkers, not brainwashed individuals and conspiracy theorists.

Covid 19 is suspected bioweapon and treated accordingly. Any biological war, real or unreal is the worst crime against humanity because the enemy is invisible.
If you can not see it it does not mean it does not exist.

Speaking of “sick and infirm”, it’s all of us Ernie. It’s also the medical staff dying. It’s people on duty getting infected. If by any chance any children die( not so far), the people who now cry scam will start throwing stones at the parliament building.


Resistance IS futile in this case, sorry to say that. It’s watching and waiting game and the LEAST thing to do is pull out the face mask and don’t cough at your fellow citizens.


People as I know them are hard core nuts including leaders of every country and forum who will kill each other for no matter what convictions they once got.

They don’t care about evolution. They don’t believe yet in evolution quite you still don’t “believe” in viruses.


I took 2 minutes to get veggies today morning when the nicest sweetest boy selling them was so upset he started to throw fit type “hurry, don’t waste my time”.
Everybody is upset. Don’t take yourself too seriously (or you die) 🤣

[Sarah Rainsong]

I wear a mask. I interact fine with other people. My freedom is not infringed on by wearing a mask.

Around here, about 75% of people out wear masks of some kind and that number seems to be growing. It has not stopped people from talking or paying each other compliments (or arguing for that matter). In fact, if anything the 6' rule and social distancing has reminded people of basics like holding the door for each other and the need for kindness.

As far as the attitude of they don't do any good or contribute to some power over you, anyone with a lick of sense knows that masks absolutely do help to stop the spread of contagious diseases! You don't even have to be a virologist. It's common sense, right up there with washing your hands. Is it fool proof? No. Does is help. YES

We are in the middle of a pandemic. People. are. dying. Maybe they would've died later rather than sooner. Maybe the numbers are wrong. SO WHAT?! People are still dying from a contagious disease, and you covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do to help.

I'm a little tired of people crying about having to wear a mask. I live in a free society, which does not mean that I get to do whatever I want. It means that I have freedom, but I must also contribute to the health and well-being of others--that's the society part. If you don't want to live in a society, with other people, where people actually work together... then go live on a deserted island! Having to cover your face during a pandemic is nothing to whine about.

If you want to whine about losing freedoms, go find something worth whining about. Wearing a mask is not it.

[Sarah Rainsong]

Another reason to wear a mask: for various reasons both related to and unrelated to COVID19, medical professionals are finding PPEs of all types to be in very short supply.

The medical professionals are as vulnerable as--or more so--than the elderly or immune-compromised. Everyone that can help them, should help them. They are there working, risking their health and their families to support your community. Wearing a mask when out helps to keep people out of the hospital, not just COVID, but for other contagions as well.

Since the medical profession has this shortage of supplies, that alone is enough reason for everyone to be covering their face while out. Lowering the burden on medical providers should be on everyone's must-do list, and at the top of that list is wearing a mask.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I went out just now and bought masks - $15 for 10.

See how it goes? Worn down by peer pressure, not convincing arguments. And here are the fall back positions:
Why not do this small thing? How can it hurt? Look at how it could even help.
If you don't like our dictates you can leave. (funny, they themselves are never the ones leaving...as if it is more theirs than mine)
They did this with the privacy issue as well...What are you doing that you need privacy? A good citizen has nothing to hide. Etc.

I will carry one around to appease the fear-mongers, but I will not wear it unless provoked. I will, however, insist that my wife use one when out, so far I have done all the excursions, because she is at risk with a compromised immune system.

[MalteseKnight]

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him Perhaps this quote should have been intended for the COVID situation in mind. It is in part a distraction. The fact is that as far back as September repo markets where in big problems. The PTB can blame COVID for precipitating certain actions by western governments in order to preserve the day to day financial plumbing of the menetary system. Bill would you be willing to interview Francis Hunt on a live stream ? 0gjsS-pd9cU After all Ecuador is an oil producing country :idea:

[Agape]

I went out just now and bought masks - $15 for 10.

See how it goes? Worn down by peer pressure, not convincing arguments. And here are the fall back positions:
Why not do this small thing? How can it hurt? Look at how it could even help.
If you don't like our dictates you can leave. (funny, they themselves are never the ones leaving...as if it is more theirs than mine)
They did this with the privacy issue as well...What are you doing that you need privacy? A good citizen has nothing to hide. Etc.

I will carry one around to appease the fear-mongers, but I will not wear it unless provoked. I will, however, insist that my wife use one when out, so far I have done all the excursions, because she is at risk with a compromised immune system.


Cheers and thanks . Good idea. They can be practical under many other circumstances than this one.

Examples...visiting ill or immunocompromised friends, hospital wards, friends with babies , cleaning dirty stuff around bins and in gardens,
while having to use chemicals - to prevent breathing those chemicals and so on.


:star:

[mountain_jim]

I went out just now and bought masks - $15 for 10.

N95? I want that deal - last time I searched $10 each was all I was finding.

I admit I gave up looking after awhile.

[Ratszinger]

I went out just now and bought masks - $15 for 10.

N95? I want that deal - last time I searched $10 each was all I was finding.

I admit I gave up looking after awhile.

I have not tried it but one of my oncologists told me that hepa vacuum bags are high filtration and a regular mask could be greatly improved with one stapled over the outside of it providing they did it correctly. I guess those bags only breath well one way but he said it would greatly improve a regular mask to about as close to an N95 as you could get short of having one. Again I haven't tried it but those bags are sure a lot easier to find if one did want to make some of their own masks and staple those to existing ones or hankies or some other homemade mask by cutting them to shape with scissors to fit existing masks. Just a thought.

[Tomkoyote]

Anyone remembers Ben Laden? Vanished like a fart in the wind. What remains and is upgraded year after year is the surveillance system at airports; today it is worse than a few years ago.
Same with masks. Expect to be forced to wear one when traveling in the near future. Fast forward to say 2025 when Mr Corona would have vanished like a fart in thin air, passengers will be required to wear one and submit to a humiliating temperature scan of some sort while also being subjected to another humiliating body search, all of this..... for our own safety!

Expect also this non sense to be implemented in stores, markets, gov buildings, even when just going for a walk, etc...


unless the masses get off their ass and do something.

[Ernie Nemeth]

All the writing is in Chinese so probably it is not an N95 mask. Got it at the local pharmacy, protection against this infection is the inferred usage. It looks like one, but you know China, the land of the knock-off.

[Luke Holiday]

Why? …. I have not seen any proof that there is a virus...

1. No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided.( added 4/22 Packaged genetic material has been labeled as sars cov2 but has not been proven pathogenic)

2. There is no test that has been proven valid or reliable for said virus

3. There has been no covid virus proven to be contagious: ie passing Koch's postulates of contagion which are the gold standard in virology and have not been done on the packaged genetic material being labeled as CV 19.

4. I have presented statistical evidence on this forum for:

a. lockdown vs non-lockdown and the results showed that lockdown countries had no statistical significance in lowering death rates - in fact those countries with no lockdown had a lower mortality rates.

b. I also provided a statistical analysis of worldwide mortality rates looking at each country and found that there has been no increase in worldwide mortality rates since 2017.


5. There is an abundance of evidence supporting that death numbers are being greatly inflated.

6. Have the use of wearing masks ever been proven to prevent spread of contagion?

7. Being like everybody else is boring :)

8 I do not live in Riverside California :)

9. I just don't look good in a mask!

10. I am young and take care of myself to the utmost degree that I am capable of... (If I wasn't doing that....)


Added later: Not trying to be perceived as an expert - just giving my opinion on why I am not wearing the g damn mask :idea::idea:

Dr. Luke Holiday NMD, PT,MOMT

https://londonreal.tv/unmasking-the-lies-around-covid-19-facts-vs-fiction-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic/?utm_source=drip&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-04-29+Dr.+Andrew+Kaufman&utm_content=Dr.+Andrew+Kaufman+-%C2%A0Facts+vs+Fiction+Of+The+Coronavirus+Pandemic

[TargeT]

Well, some people are taking this exactly how I would if I was in the states.....

PrJaZsdjSz4

[Bill Ryan]

No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided.

Well, here's some. The virus has been sequenced 1,204 times since December 2019. (Maybe more by the time you read this!)


https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs

I'll leave it to you to read the research papers. I'm sure you will!

:)

[Luke Holiday]

No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided.

Well, here's some. The virus has been sequenced 1,204 times since December 2019. (Maybe more by the time you read this!)


https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs

I'll leave it to you to read the research papers. I do not feel comfortable will!

:)
So I assume you agree with the rest 2 thru 8? Is it OK to respond if I have a rebuttal.. I am not sure and do not feel comfortable based on what appears to be intended sarcasm? ex. I'm sure you will!

[Bill Ryan]

No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided.

Well, here's some. The virus has been sequenced 1,204 times since December 2019. (Maybe more by the time you read this!)



https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs


I'll leave it to you to read the research papers. I'm sure you will!

:)
Is it OK to respond if I have a rebuttal.. I am not sure based on what appears to be intended sarcasm? ex. I'm sure you will!Yes, I was making the point. You didn't even try to look. I found all that in about two minutes, maybe three. (And I did read the first paper, too.)

You're making flat statements — "No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided" — that sound cool and reasonable, but are actually 100% false and incorrect.

Take more care with your posts. You didn't even write "As best I know, no proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided."

You're trying to sound like an authority, and you're not.

[Luke Holiday]

…so It wasn't sarcasm then? :)

Your rebuttal seems a bit harsh - but - OK fair point - so it is OK to respond to your statement with an explanation which will add clarity?

Do you agree with 2 thru 8?




Luke

[thepainterdoug]

to answer the exact question. I only wear a mask when told i have to, as in stores etc. otherwise no. if its that contagious , you will get it anyway if meant to get it, mask or no mask

d

[AutumnW]

I know this thread is about masks. I also agree they can help contain the spread, although the virus is hardy and can remain intact in the air and solid surfaces, so the air is already contaminated in common areas regardless. Best to keep the mucus secretions up if you know how.

The virus threatens those we love, I am personally affected too. I would rather err on the side of caution for selfish reasons. But this has gone too far. Do not over-sell me with propaganda. Do not try and convince me that the world suddenly cares about its citizens, especially a mere .01%. This is a power move and we had better decide now which future we wish to usher in with our decisions today.

If we care so much about people let's tackle the big killers and leave the small stuff to sort itself out. Let's just all stay indoors forever - I'm sure the feds can send us all money to order online indefinitely...

As a species made up of many nations and people, we absolutely have to balance the danger of infection and fatality against the almost certain fatality of the economy, if we self isolate for too long. I think it has been important to self isolate for a short duration so the medical system has time to catch up with all the necessary preps, and then stagger a return to work with masks on. Those who are at risk can choose to continue to self isolate or not. It's up to them.

It will be interesting to see how the Swedish herd immunity experiment works out. They are triple the fatalities, per capita of Norway, Denmark and Finland but still relatively low. They are expected to reach herd immunity in a few weeks. That might be the model. But if it is, we have to copy their model of healthy lifestyle, low obesity rates too.

[DaveToo]

Yes, absolutely, and you should, too.


The principle behind normalizing the wearing of masks isn't to keep you from getting sick. It's to help minimize spread by limiting how many droplets of saliva you expel by simply speaking/breathing, droplets which, if infected, could very well transmit the virus to another person, and so on. Are masks fool-proof? Absolutely not. And nobody is saying they are, either. At least, nobody with basic sense. But they do help. And help isn't hurting anyone. Something is better than nothing.

... Untwist you panties, get those rusted critical thinking gears turning again, and wear a damn mask. It's not like they're used diapers...


Tam, perhaps you can respond to the question I asked in Post #6?
I am pasting it here:

"Those who wear or advocate the use of masks by others, think about this.

So far there have allegedly been 176,000 deaths due to Covid-19.
Each year there are between 350,000-650,000 deaths worldwide due to the seasonal flu.

Both diseases are worldwide pandemics.
Yet for some strange reason the seasonal flu is largely ignored, while the sexy Covid-19 gets all the paranoid PTB-controlled press.

You are just as likely to become infected by the seasonal flu as you are by Covid-19.

That being the case, I ask those who wear masks now, do you wear one when you go outside during the flu season or do you see others (50% of the population) in your area wearing masks as a protective measure at that time? "

[East Sun]

I don't but I carry a bandana in case I meet people when I walk my dog in the park. It is for their benefit. I don't want to
bother people who are scared. We are in fresh air and keep a reasonable distance apart. If someone says Please wear your mask
I say OK I will for your benefit. Fair enough!

[DaveToo]

I wear a mask. I interact fine with other people. My freedom is not infringed on by wearing a mask.

Around here, about 75% of people out wear masks of some kind and that number seems to be growing. It has not stopped people from talking or paying each other compliments (or arguing for that matter). In fact, if anything the 6' rule and social distancing has reminded people of basics like holding the door for each other and the need for kindness.


Do you have 6' length arms?




We are in the middle of a pandemic. People. are. dying. Maybe they would've died later rather than sooner. Maybe the numbers are wrong. SO WHAT?! People are still dying from a contagious disease, and you covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do to help.


We are in the middle of a pandemic each and every year rainsong!
The pandemic I am talking about is the seasonal flu.
It kills 350,000-650,000 people each year!
Much more than Covid-19 has killed so far.

Do you wear a face mask when you go out for the months that the flu lasts?

[Luke Holiday]

No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided.

Well, here's some. The virus has been sequenced 1,204 times since December 2019. (Maybe more by the time you read this!)



https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs


I'll leave it to you to read the research papers. I'm sure you will!

:)
Is it OK to respond if I have a rebuttal.. I am not sure based on what appears to be intended sarcasm? ex. I'm sure you will!Yes, I was making the point. You didn't even try to look. I found all that in about two minutes, maybe three. (And I did read the first paper, too.)

You're making flat statements — "No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided" — that sound cool and reasonable, but are actually 100% false and incorrect.

Take more care with your posts. You didn't even write "As best I know, no proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided."

You're trying to sound like an authority, and you're not.

Truth be told Bill, I was aware of this study and what the MSM has been stating in this regard.

I am sorry you feel that way Bil, that was not my intention. Just curious, how exactly would you define "expert"? Fauci, Bill gates, the CDC or perhaps the WHO?,

At this point, after reading, listening, posting, researching for most of the last 4 weeks while on lock down - I certainly feel confident debating the issue.

The only reason the statement may sound cool is because it is true. Allow me to explain:

I would like to offer this reply for the sake of discussion and gaining greater clarity on the issue...

This particular study is stating that specific genetic material is being labeled as sars cov 2. ( I was not aware of the name change)

Now in order to prove that the packaged genetic material is in fact something worthwhile: science has to prove that it - is in fact - a contagious pathogen.

Certainly, one would think that would have been done before locking down the whole world.

As I stated in number 3, this has not been done. So, I am arguing that what is being identified in this study can/should only be labeled as packaged genetic material believed to cause the symptom complex called Covid 19 – as yet unproven by “experts”; in other words the pathogen has not been identified.

Interestingly, I would add that this is exactly why the media has been very clever in its vernacular when reporting on anyone of interest dying around the CV 19 moniker. The MSM is stating that the person died after testing positive for CV 19 - not that they have died of CV 19.

I Hope that clears up where I was coming from - on number 1.
(Yes I probably could’ve worded my original comment better - it was just a quick reflexive reply to the thread topic ie..if I was wearing my mask or not - I will be sure to be more careful next time:)

I hope this will be perceived in the spirit of discussion - I hold no ill will – nor do I feel any need to be right or perceived as an expert (there is no fun in that - the fun and growth occurs with disagreement) ?– I am simply here to explore, learn and come to clarity on desired issues. I have found that one of the best ways to do this is through conversation (especially polite, non perjorative disagreement) with others 😊.

Blessings

Luke

[DeDukshyn]

Nope.
I have a smoker's cough occasionally and I coughed at Home Depot the other day. Man you shoulda seen the looks I got from a couple of people.
I couldn't help but laugh to myself.
Paranoia strikes deep. LOL

Allergy season is about to start in Canada (because of our extreme seasons, it hits hard) -- I'm going to be tarred and feathered, I'm pretty sure ... lol.

[Sarah Rainsong]

I wear a mask. I interact fine with other people. My freedom is not infringed on by wearing a mask.

Around here, about 75% of people out wear masks of some kind and that number seems to be growing. It has not stopped people from talking or paying each other compliments (or arguing for that matter). In fact, if anything the 6' rule and social distancing has reminded people of basics like holding the door for each other and the need for kindness.


Do you have 6' length arms?




We are in the middle of a pandemic. People. are. dying. Maybe they would've died later rather than sooner. Maybe the numbers are wrong. SO WHAT?! People are still dying from a contagious disease, and you covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do to help.


We are in the middle of a pandemic each and every year rainsong!
The pandemic I am talking about is the seasonal flu.
It kills 350,000-650,000 people each year!
Much more than Covid-19 has killed so far.

Do you wear a face mask when you go out for the months that the flu lasts?

I feel like you're trying to avoid the issue or guilt-trip or just argue for the sake of arguing. Nothing you have said changes the fact that covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do and it does save lives.

Maybe we should have been doing this a long time ago wrt to the flu! Doesn't change what's happening now. Doesn't change that it helps NOW.

To me, this is a non-issue, so I probably won't engage further. I just cannot get behind the attitude of not only refusing to wear a mask but also encouraging others to not do so. It is a very simple act of compassion that costs very little.

[DaveToo]

I wear a mask. I interact fine with other people. My freedom is not infringed on by wearing a mask.

Around here, about 75% of people out wear masks of some kind and that number seems to be growing. It has not stopped people from talking or paying each other compliments (or arguing for that matter). In fact, if anything the 6' rule and social distancing has reminded people of basics like holding the door for each other and the need for kindness.


Do you have 6' length arms?




We are in the middle of a pandemic. People. are. dying. Maybe they would've died later rather than sooner. Maybe the numbers are wrong. SO WHAT?! People are still dying from a contagious disease, and you covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do to help.


We are in the middle of a pandemic each and every year rainsong!
The pandemic I am talking about is the seasonal flu.
It kills 350,000-650,000 people each year!
Much more than Covid-19 has killed so far.

Do you wear a face mask when you go out for the months that the flu lasts?

I feel like you're trying to avoid the issue or guilt-trip or just argue for the sake of arguing. Nothing you have said changes the fact that covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do and it does save lives.

Maybe we should have been doing this a long time ago wrt to the flu! Doesn't change what's happening now. Doesn't change that it helps NOW.

To me, this is a non-issue, so I probably won't engage further. I just cannot get behind the attitude of not only refusing to wear a mask but also encouraging others to not do so. It is a very simple act of compassion that costs very little.

Let me be clear, because it seems I have been misunderstood.

If another person chooses to wear a face mask, all the power to them!
They have the right to do so.

They shouldn't try to lay a guilt trip on others who don't want to wear one.

A big point I want to make and have been trying to make.
The seasonal flu kills more people than this virus has.
The seasonal flu is a deadly virus. It goes pandemic each year.

Why haven't governments advised people to wear masks at the start of each flu season each year?
Why don't you see people wearing masks, on their own, each flu season?

[DaveToo]

Where are you getting your numbers and data from? Fox has the source info from WHO, CDC, ECDC, and NHC and they say total cases USA 823,257 and 44,805 have died which equates to 5.45% death rate! So what to you is a good source?

Ratsz, officially the WHO and CDHC say that there have been 2.6 Million cases so far, with 184,000 deaths.

The US CDC says that this flu season (2019-2020) in the U.S. alone, some 38 to 54 million people may catch the flu, and 23,000 to 59,000 may die from it.

There is no reason to think that Covid-19 is less contagious than the flu. So tens of millions of Americans have likely been infected by it already.


The death toll from this, if we are to believe the numbers presented, has doubled in a week. I don't know where to check but I don't recall hearing about that happening with regular flu.

The death toll hasn't doubled in a week. These were the total deaths today and last week:
Apr 22 184 K
Apr 15 138 K
Numbers from the WHO and CDHC.

[TomKat]

In the Czech republic, where the citizens decided for themselves to all wear masks, the Covid-19 R0 has been brought down to 0.8 for the last week. As best I know, and although it's early days yet, that's the first country where that's happened.


When did the goal change from "flattening the curve" to "eradicating covid-19?" There are enough people with the virus that we're all going to get it unless we stay on lockdown the rest of our lives. I don't see what was gained by the Czechs having a low infection rate -- for now. They're all going to get it eventually.

[Luke Holiday]

In the Czech republic, where the citizens decided for themselves to all wear masks, the Covid-19 R0 has been brought down to 0.8 for the last week. As best I know, and although it's early days yet, that's the first country where that's happened.


When did the goal change from "flattening the curve" to "eradicating covid-19?" There are enough people with the virus that we're all going to get it unless we stay on lockdown the rest of our lives. I don't see what was gained by the Czechs having a low infection rate -- for now. They're all going to get it eventually.


… one question I have is how do you prove that they "all" them - who did the counting?

[Sue (Ayt)]

The trend of mandating masks, accompanied by the "morally superior" crowd hopping on the peer pressure bandwagon threatens me somehow. And when I think it out, it is because it feels like it could lead to further removal of our freedoms and rights as humans. Like DaveToo mentioned as to the flu, if it is decided that mask-wearing is necessary outside the home in this case, could it not lead to being necessary for every flu? And then colds in general? ALL infectious airborn diseases? Could masks become permanently mandated always? Would "fear of others" be instilled even further than it is already being insidiously drilled into us?
And how about skin/touch transmitted infections? Already, hand-shaking and hugging are being discussed. Could these things become permanently banned? Would permanent isolation in compartments be even better?

Personally, I would miss seeing smiles, and human facial expression if everyone went about forever looking like a bandido! I would miss handshakes and hugs, too.

I have no problem wearing a mask in some situations, and I agree it can be an important and a considerate thing to do, in some situations. I have no trouble discussing it, either. But quite honestly, I can understand why the "you should" term automatically raises hackles.

[DaveToo]

In the Czech republic, where the citizens decided for themselves to all wear masks, the Covid-19 R0 has been brought down to 0.8 for the last week. As best I know, and although it's early days yet, that's the first country where that's happened.


When did the goal change from "flattening the curve" to "eradicating covid-19?" There are enough people with the virus that we're all going to get it unless we stay on lockdown the rest of our lives. I don't see what was gained by the Czechs having a low infection rate -- for now. They're all going to get it eventually.

Yes I made the same point on another site today.

For over a month governments worldwide have all been chanting the same chorus:
"We must flatten the curve! We must flatten the curve!"

Well guess what?
We have flattened the curve in the vast majority of countries worldwide!
Actually we have gone far better than flattening the curve.
Almost perfect bell curves are forming with respect to cases/deaths worldwide.

Now you don't hear them saying "We must flatten the curve!"
Now you hear them saying, we won't win this battle until a vaccine comes along !!!

Huh ??????

[DaveToo]

A followup to my last post.

"New Mexico is likely to insist that people wear masks in public until broad immunity is established through a vaccine -- a solution unlikely to arrive this year."

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-2-died-virus-weeks-072136979.html

[Sue (Ayt)]

A followup to my last post.

"New Mexico is likely to insist that people wear masks in public until broad immunity is established through a vaccine -- a solution unlikely to arrive this year."

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-2-died-virus-weeks-072136979.html

Oh yuk! The level of absurdity never ceases to amaze me. Yet Bizarro world continues...
I am simply constantly gobsmacked these days.
43377

[EFO]

Back to masks. In the Czech republic, where the citizens decided for themselves to all wear masks, the Covid-19 R0 has been brought down to 0.8 for the last week. As best I know, and although it's early days yet, that's the first country where that's happened.

Wearing masks will be mandatory for everyone in Romania starting from 15 May 2020...

As far as I know,those light blue surgical masks are used mostly for dust,pollen,humidity,some aerosols and so on.More reliable masks are coded ffp 2 (filtering more than 95%) and ffp 3 (filtering more than 98%),both with respiratory valve.So...

[greybeard]

Coronavirus: Britons should wear cloth face coverings in public, health experts tell government
Sky News David Mercer, news reporter,Sky News

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-britons-wear-cloth-face-coverings-public-health-153200220.html

Its another attempt to train people into obedience in my opinion
Experts disagree I think the success in Sweden is being ignored and under played.
See this Professors view who is a real expert of International standing


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY

"That was one of the more extraordinary interviews we have done here at UnHerd.

Professor Johan Giesecke, one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists, advisor to the Swedish Government (he hired Anders Tegnell who is currently directing Swedish strategy), the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and an advisor to the director general of the WHO, lays out with typically Swedish bluntness why he thinks:2

- UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based
- The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only
- This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product”
- The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better
- The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact
- The paper was very much too pessimistic
- Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway
- The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown
- The results will eventually be similar for all countries
- Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.
- The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1%
- At least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available

There is an "urgent need" for Britons to wear cloth face coverings in public places to fight the spread of coronavirus, a group of health experts has warned.

In an open letter to the government, more than 20 public health specialists and academics said the measure would be one of the "simplest, cheapest and most positive" ways to protect people from COVID-19.

It comes after Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer backed calls for the government to formally recommend people wear face masks on transport and in workplaces where social distancing is difficult.

London mayor Sadiq Khan had previously said he wants the wearing of face masks on public transport in the capital to be made compulsory.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson's spokesman said the government's scientific advisers are finalising their advice on face masks to give to ministers shortly.

The open letter to the government has been signed by the likes of Andrew Phillips, professor of epidemiology at University College London, Martin McKee, professor of European public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, and Paul Roderick, professor of public health at the University of Southampton.

The experts warn there is "an urgent need to ensure the general population use cloth face coverings in public places", particularly in supermarkets and public transport, "as an additional tool to reduce community transmission" of the virus.

They urge the government to recommend the use of cloth face coverings so that public demand does not "compete with the needs of health and care workers for protective equipment".

"Wearing face coverings (regularly washed with hot soapy water) in public is likely to be one of the simplest, cheapest and most positive measures in protecting people from infection," the letter states.

The experts say they recognise the effectiveness of wearing a face covering is a "contested issue", and that the World Health Organisation does not currently recommend wearing face masks outside of clinical settings in relation to COVID-19.

But they add that several countries have "enforced or strongly recommended" the public wearing of face masks, including mainland China, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, the Czech Republic, Singapore and parts of Germany.

Coronavirus is transmitted by large droplets "which can be prevented by social distancing and hand hygiene and by face covering", the letter says.

Transmission is also possible from smaller droplets shed during normal speech which can remain in the air for several hours so wearing face coverings may reduce this risk, it adds.

"Public face covering will be most effective at stopping spread of the virus when compliance is high," the experts say.

"With appropriate guidance, the public will quickly learn how to properly use face coverings whilst maintaining other control measures."

:: Listen to the Daily podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Spreaker

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps told Sky News last week that wearing masks to avoid spreading COVID-19 might have some advantages.

But he explained the policy was under review by the government's chief science advisers and cautioned that face coverings may even be "disadvantageous" if worn wrongly.

[greybeard]

In the above Video the Swedish Professor points out that it is no worse that the seasonal Flu and gives full reason for that.
We are being hit over the head by Save lives --protect the NHS -- false statistics -- who exactly do you want to believe?
Look at where this is leading us by the nose -- covered or not.
Did you wear a mask for the flu virus of last year?
Did you survive it, even if you caught it?

Wear a mask sound so correct, so logical - so does lockdown which will lead to mass unemployment and resulting suicides--more dying from that than saved by lockdown.
I will not be wearing a mask unless forced to by law.
I was born free, I have every intention of dying free.
Death --whats that?
Is the inevitable to be feared?
Chris

[Luke Holiday]

A followup to my last post.

"New Mexico is likely to insist that people wear masks in public until broad immunity is established through a vaccine -- a solution unlikely to arrive this year."

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-2-died-virus-weeks-072136979.html

I hope that New Mexico residents push back on that ...

[Hym]

It too, this spiritual virulence, wears a mask of deep deceit. It's obvious. Watch the deep connections between the media, entertainment, and the corporate whore-houses of governmental control.

When the super-corrupt W.H.O. was called out for investigation for its part in the many crimes it has committed in contribution to just this one pandemic alone, albeit with a massive dark agenda in tow, there was a benefit concert held by the entertainment industry on all of the major t.v. stations in response. That is an undeniable proof of collusion, let alone blatant misdirection from the facts supporting the proof of criminal, corporate and governmental corruption. It was not only a pathetic play on emotions, it was very poorly recorded music mixed in with some really bad singing.

This particular viral strain, that the CDC calls the SARS-Cov-2 "infection", and that Dr.Judy Mikovitz, a former colleague of Dr. Fauci, says has the added strength of HIV and MERS - under the likely scenario of it being developed at the Level 4 Lab in Wuhan (after illegally receiving it from the u.s. with a $3.7 million grant facilitated by Dr. Fauci), is a particularly virulent, if even short-lived, bio-weapon. It makes sense to bypass contact with it by wearing a mask when in very close gatherings, but the masks worn are unique in other ways....This is all about the incoming restrictions upon almost all human rights to connect with each other, with our own economies/our jobs and especially to live in the innate nature of the prosperity within our lives, far beyond the illusory indoctrinations of scarcity and survivalism.

It also makes sense to be aware of its presence and the fear that surrounds it. It's existence, in total-from decades of governmental developments, all illegal, immoral, unethical and certainly inhumane (not of human origin) while consuming billions of dollars of taxpayer funds, is without purpose unless it contains the virulence of it's effect upon the psyche of the masses. It serves no other purpose for its existence than that of a tool of deception and repression of the innate spiritual power of humanity.

Its history will be defined by the ingenuity of those who remove it from our lives in all of its expressed forms. It certainly is not simply an organism borne from nature, but can be associated in its origin from a fight between the brotherhood of the Jokers and the Batmen who write the narratives sunk deep into the psyche of a public, overcome by the distractions of a superficial abundance and the airborne electrical frequencies of the digital world.


You all have been here before at the edge of discovering your combined power of intentional healing and transformation. You have failed before and the world has collapsed into almost no trace of your existence. Don't neglect the duty, the colorful and engaging, the ultimate satisfaction achieved in changing your environment, from the soul outward.

Those very same masses will or will not give up their human rights to have those paper and plastic saviors, the god-like class of corporate enslaved scientists, governmental regulatory agencies and the emotional blankets called politicians and entertainers, save them in payment of their guilt contract for being so weak and distracted in their lives, instead of speaking up, giving up for others and doing all that is necessary to remove the power that those gods of fear and unnatural comforts have over them. Of all the masks we wear in our lives this one, now, has some meaning and worth when we know how deep the game is played and how to use the tools of research, imagination and ingenuity to counter it in a very positive way.

It, this co-morbid strain defined by the covalence of shared electrons between vastly different, genetically modified pathogenic strains, to me and my senses, does have a sharp electric component. I do note that the 5g stressors could not cause the worst of these symptoms-even as they, like many other components, weaken the entire system on a cellular level.. In varying degrees they affect the VGCC, the voltage gate calcium channel, and contribute to the weakening of the electro-chemical exchange/the active bond, by blocking the ability of cells to transport oxygen in and export CO2 out, creating hypoxia. I've felt it, but not in a common way like I feel energy from within and from without. (It is accurate to call a cell phone cellular as they directly, always, affect the system on a cellular level-that fact I got when they first came out. I assumed that was the origin of the term "cellular")

I do have the sense, as from the beginning, that this is more than it appears and of course, with much less reason to implement tracking individuals who keep their bluetooth active on their phones and certainly no reason to insist upon vaccinating all of the population. I've listened to both national press briefings and state press briefings to finally hear just what I heard today from both. The key phrase used by both is the initial and continued use of the indoctrinating term, "mandatory vaccines". This is the beginning of the end of personal freedoms and the supposed constitutional guarantees of the right to the sovereignty of our persons if we do not initiate our personal and collective imaginings and actions.

I expected the connection from the federal government to this 3rd world state, called new mexico, which is neither New nor Mexican, overgrown with an amoral, scientific elite class and the ultra-racist hispanos, what with most government officials here ranked amongst the highest for their conquistador-borne history of governmental corruption and where most officials remain completely unaware of how out of touch they are to those who live here.

In addition, the major national labs in the state have a presence that includes a much higher duty to service and then swallow the globalist jiz, thru los alamos, sandia and the spider web construct of its horrific inhumanities. Starting with ignorantly presuming that any large part of the extremely well-armed citizens here would ever take a vaccine, when many live here without a history of vaccine exposure, because of the existing protection of our rights to govern our own health and spiritual choices, our life paths, in this state. Yes my care of my own physical well being is, in its primal state, even in its constitutionally protected existence, a religious choice and a human right.

I left California with my son in his infancy knowing that that state would turn into the vaccine-mandatory hell it has become. This state would do well to be reminded of its place in the history of constitutional mandates. Although the state would more accurately be referred to as the low rent home of the lab born parasites of the criminal elite, i.e. Richardson, Epstein and the Zorro pedophile ranch, and the home grown, arrogant hispano racists that challenge the colonial aspirations of any white/pink skinned scum in the states, it also contains a large enough and diverse population of fairly independent humans to easily counter any assault on physical and spiritual rights. As the mask of deceit is uncovered many here will openly refuse all of the above.

It's the self-indulgence of the liberal idiocracy, it's refusal to look at the science within each context, and it's superficial adherence to progressively fascist idealism that the state's elected criminals count on, while simultaneously being blind to the depth of the vibrant humanity that lives here, unbound by either left or right wing ideologies.

Wearing a mask amongst the pay-to-play thieves in La Tierra de Los Ladronas, The Land of The Thieves, is actually an homage to these many truths, now being unmasked and unbound by these most unnatural of conventions spawned by the corporate governance that this state's officials have willingly whored themselves out to.

The scientists i know, they know this all too well. In fact I'd make a headstone in honor, no, in remembrance of all the regret filled scientists who sold themselves, their integrity, their scientific curiosities and their very worthy energies for the production of all the levels of evil they helped to create. "Don't rest in peace when you haven't earned it."

The lawyers here too, as they are the ones who took down the posted signs we should see when entering the state saying "Did you bring your lawyer with you? If not, contact......." Now this was one of the few ads I appreciated the state considering as a public service announcement. Somebody in a mask must have removed them, after removing...after stealing the funding to make them.


It too, this globalist project, all of this presented to us, wears a mask whose removal is a vital exercise in the discovery of our collective worth, our true purpose for being.....human, being here.

Have some fun with it.

Breathe deep the gathering gloom, holding that breath as long as possible to process it and unmask its illusions. Tuck the chin in to prevent dizziness and maximize the flow of oxygen thru the neck.

Let go and remove the air from your lungs , energizing the truths within the longest hold you can take, contracting your inner organs close to the spinal channels, then release to gain your own true perspective. It lives within the autonomic nature of your being, not just your body.

Share, wash your hands of the lies. Repeat.

[araucaria]

Have moved this post which says nothing about face masks to this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110418-Let--s-open-some-gates-and-windows&p=1353628&viewfull=1#post1353628)

[greybeard]

In the supermarket this morning a man over 3 meters away from me said "Keep your distance"
I said "From whom?" pollitly.
He said gestured to the ladies in front of me at least 6 feet away.
I said "Sorry I thought I was" and moved back several feet and so did everyone behind me.

I have a diploma in Psychology and Neuro linguistic programming --NLP.
It seems clear to me that both are being used on the UK public and probably elsewhere.
Repition repition and this is coming from various sources -- all telling the same story -- un named experts on the whole.
In a democracy we should hear all sides of a story but no we are being brain washed.

It is divide and conquer.
If a face mask law is brought in or even suggested, it will be so easy to see who are the obedient good guys and the bad guys.
If I can be reminded of social distance when I thought i was keeping a safe distance you can be sure the "good guys" will be very quick to report those not wearing masks as a public menace.
Keep an open mind and a may or may not be so attitude.
Just a suggestion.
Chris

[Ratszinger]

Here in OK it's hilarious so far! Women I see all the time in town are frequently seen now with their full mask attire and a can of Lysol while they shop and if you violate the social distance rule as far as they are concerned they simply spray you without saying a word! You just get zapped and I watched the one douse a couple others in the store that day going down the isle! What I find particularly offensive is when someone expects someone with their back turned to know they are too close! If you are the one that can see and you are too close then you are the one too close not the one not seeing you behind him! Some people are just focused too much on "I" thinking the entire world has to yield to them though!

[EFO]

We are so close...:rofl:
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/portrait-of-surgeon-wearing-surgical-mask-picture-id904802486?s=612x612
https://images.lpcdn.ca/924x615/201003/19/156082.jpg

[greybeard]

I am reminded that Boris our PM made a fool of Moslem ladies wearing face covering and now!!!!
He has disappeared from public view.
If I was a conspiracy theorist I would be wondering at his lengthy recovery -- leaving others to tell lies for a change.
He was opposed to big brother helping those "less privileged"
Who knows he might retire to be a married man with family, he did the impossible with the aid of NLP sound bites and got the Conservatives voted in again.Job done.
Was he wearing a mask and actually not for a massive public disinformation campaign about the "virus"?
Im afraid face macks almost inevitable if only by a willing public following "suggestions" for their own good of course.

Chris

[Matthew]

The Burka comes with an implicit view that mans lust is a womens responsibility, and cascading in with that comes segregation between men and women. I would wear a mask to fit in, but I'd personally draw the line at segregation between men and women

[Mashika]

The Burka comes with an implicit view that mans lust is a womens responsibility, and cascading in with that comes segregation between men and women. I would wear a mask to fit in, but I'd personally draw the line at segregation between men and women

Don't mean to offend anyone but personally i find Burka extremely terrible, i don't even know where to start explaining it. It's horrible just thinking you have to hide away to be "acceptable" in some unknown terms someone else figured out for you, without even asking you about it

And some of the victims of this oppression believe this is "Freedom" is impossibly far away from any logic.

"I'm free to choose my own hell and how it will be administered from now on"

WTF

[Baby Steps]

The UK has a healthy if low tech mittelstand of companies that are more than capable of ramping up production of all protective equipment items.

Plenty of manufacturers complain that the government is not responding to offers of supply, so it appears there is a bottleneck at the purchasing end, ie Matt Hancock's department (Health Secretary).

Mr Hancock is being presented in the media as increasingly incompetent, but there is more to this, Hancock has involvements in the health and pharma industries including Porton Biotech. Porton Down is the centre of the UK biowarfare cluster.


https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09331560/persons-with-significant-control

He is also linked to PPE production companies allegedly.

When a viral epidemic starts it is simply common sense to curtail travel of all kinds. Arrivals should be quarantined as they used to. this pandemic occurred because flights were not stopped early enough, despite many people suggesting it.

lackof action on this point strikes me as a huge negligence leading to thousands of deaths.

if spurious accusations of racism contributed to state hesitation to lock down flights then that is a serious chunk of karma for those people making such accusations.

[TomKat]

Here in OK it's hilarious so far! Women I see all the time in town are frequently seen now with their full mask attire and a can of Lysol while they shop and if you violate the social distance rule as far as they are concerned they simply spray you without saying a word! You just get zapped and I watched the one douse a couple others in the store that day going down the isle! What I find particularly offensive is when someone expects someone with their back turned to know they are too close! If you are the one that can see and you are too close then you are the one too close not the one not seeing you behind him! Some people are just focused too much on "I" thinking the entire world has to yield to them though!

Looks like you'll need your own spray can to spray them back. That would be a hilarious news clip!

[Merkaba360]

I just had a funny thought.....or is it?

What if they want to create a masked public as part of the occultists coming out into the open, so they are still facially hidden in public. Ya know, those eyes wide shut people. Eventually we can have a bunch of darth vader's walking around without being suspicious looking lol.

Another interesting point is how the masks will work with the facial recognition technology. Heck , we might all want to wear them soon enough. Create a paranoid public setting where everyone goes outside incognito.

They are also gearing up revolutionaries with their masks for when/if this goes to the streets.

I am in an asian country where masks are required outdoors. I was really tempted to buy a halloween mask and walk around with that thing on. lol I wonder how they wouldve liked that :)

[silvanelf]

4. I have presented statistical evidence on this forum for:

a. lockdown vs non-lockdown and the results showed that lockdown countries had no statistical significance in lowering death rates - in fact those countries with no lockdown had a lower mortality rates.

b. I also provided a statistical analysis of worldwide mortality rates looking at each country and found that there has been no increase in worldwide mortality rates since 2017.


5. There is an abundance of evidence supporting that death numbers are being greatly inflated.

You are averaging out the mortality rates by looking at each country as a whole . In other words: your "statistical analysis" is meaningless. You have to consider smaller regions separately; for example here are the statistics about the deaths per month in the city of Bergamo over the last ten years:


As hospitals become overcrowded, patients are being asked to stay at home until they display the most serious symptoms. Many will die in their houses or nursing homes and may not even be counted as Covid-19 cases unless they’re tested post-mortem.

Last week, two researchers from northern Italy made this point forcefully when looking at Nembro, a small town near Bergamo that has been very severely hit by the outbreak. Writing in Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera they found there had been 158 deaths in the town in 2020 so far, as opposed to 35 on average in the previous five years. They noted that Nembro had only counted 31 deaths from Covid-19, which looks like an underestimate.

In other towns nearby, including Bergamo itself, the trend seemed identical. The researchers made the point that the only reliable indicator in the end will be “excess deaths” — namely, how many more people have died in total compared to a “normal” year.

Death per month in Bergamo over the last ten years*

https://www.moonofalabama.org/images10/bergamo-s.jpg

bigger image (https://www.moonofalabama.org/images10/bergamo.jpg)

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/china-did-not-deceive-us-counting-death-during-an-epidemic-is-really-difficult.html

[Michi]

I just ordered one of these ... YES!

[DaveToo]

Here in OK it's hilarious so far! Women I see all the time in town are frequently seen now with their full mask attire and a can of Lysol while they shop and if you violate the social distance rule as far as they are concerned they simply spray you without saying a word! You just get zapped and I watched the one douse a couple others in the store that day going down the isle! What I find particularly offensive is when someone expects someone with their back turned to know they are too close! If you are the one that can see and you are too close then you are the one too close not the one not seeing you behind him! Some people are just focused too much on "I" thinking the entire world has to yield to them though!

I wouldn't characterize that as hilarious.
Wearing or not wearing a mask is a personal choice.
Spraying someone with Lysol is a physical assault.

[Ratszinger]

Here in OK it's hilarious so far! Women I see all the time in town are frequently seen now with their full mask attire and a can of Lysol while they shop and if you violate the social distance rule as far as they are concerned they simply spray you without saying a word! You just get zapped and I watched the one douse a couple others in the store that day going down the isle! What I find particularly offensive is when someone expects someone with their back turned to know they are too close! If you are the one that can see and you are too close then you are the one too close not the one not seeing you behind him! Some people are just focused too much on "I" thinking the entire world has to yield to them though!

I wouldn't characterize that as hilarious.
Wearing or not wearing a mask is a personal choice.
Spraying someone with Lysol is a physical assault.

Right. It's called sarcasm!

[Le Chat]

I just ordered one of these ... YES!

Whoa Nellie!

I would freak out if someone in that get-up was coming toward me....

[Hym]

I would strongly advise those societies to only allow women to carry weapons, then have a mandatory law where only men are required to wear burkas and could only talk in those falsetto voices as close as possible to Monty Python in drag.

The burka is the ultimate in the objectification of women and a moving, living monument to the ignorance of manipulated and weakened men, all flaccid, organ monkeyed chimps and their pimps.

Knowing how manipulated women are from the earliest ages and so easily discarded when judged by some unholy norm, some unnatural model, I see it the saddest and most compelling comment to recognize that many women would gladly be removed of any external social burden and be received as just who they are and who THEY want to be.

The burkas in western society are the masked models that women are pressured into wearing, covered by cosmetics, trending hair styles, trending clothes and the even more repressive trending attitudes, all not heart created expressions of their inner beauties.

Wear all the things you want to or none. Women sure don't need any men telling them what to do, nor especially not other women and some grotesque media sales model or social influencer shaming them into complying with their twisted projections, only to sell something or get some hits off of the media crack button.


And please, don't encourage abusive systems to do a study on the protection that burkas provide in defense from catching a flu.

[Tomkoyote]

There have been a number epidemics and pandemics in the past all over the planet and there has never been even the slightest hint or suggestion that wearing masks would solve the issue even a tiny bit. Why? Because it is a nonsense; it solves nothing. In the past, a nonsense remained a nonsense. In 2020 this nonsense has become 'common sense.'
The brilliant minds who peddled the 50,000 dead here and 300,000 infected there, continue to peddle nonsense in trying to show graphs 'proving' that wearing masks has brought down the number of infected.

Wearing a mask is a sure sign of weak thinking and submission; that's how I see it anyway.

As I posted somewhere on this forum...
>> Enjoy your 60 day free trial of Fascism 2.0; the next version will be faster, more detailed and more powerful. <<

[Sarah Rainsong]

There have been a number epidemics and pandemics in the past all over the planet and there has never been even the slightest hint or suggestion that wearing masks would solve the issue even a tiny bit. Why? Because it is a nonsense; it solves nothing. In the past, a nonsense remained a nonsense. In 2020 this nonsense has become 'common sense.'
The brilliant minds who peddled the 50,000 dead here and 300,000 infected there, continue to peddle nonsense in trying to show graphs 'proving' that wearing masks has brought down the number of infected.

Wearing a mask is a sure sign of weak thinking and submission; that's how I see it anyway.

As I posted somewhere on this forum...
>> Enjoy your 60 day free trial of Fascism 2.0; the next version will be faster, more detailed and more powerful. <<

A quick search shows (https://www.google.com/search?q=mask+wearing+during+spanish+flu&rlz=1CARJNJ_enUS759US759&sxsrf=ALeKk01P8kb-lq0KBvrO3hCH-kxbQon9LA%3A1587662561187&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A4%2F2019%2Ccd_max%3A4%2F2012&tbm=) this to be false. The search parameters for the link are from April 2012 to April 2019, just to eliminate any recent stories trying to manipulate the current subject.

Here's one article from 2017:
Flashback: Spanish Flu Mask (https://www.breakthroughs.com/impacts-innovation/flashback-spanish-flu-mask)

People were asked to wear masks, usually made out of fabric, in public as a first line of defense against contracting and transmitting the disease, and were denied admittance to streetcars, offices, and other public places if mask-less.

That didn't last for that long, so the idea that it's some prelude to some permanent mask-wearing-thing doesn't hold water for me.

Neither do I see any correlation between wearing a mask for medical purposes and fascism of any degree. You may see it as "weak thinking and submission." I see it as helping others. I see it as a positive thing.

[Sarah Rainsong]

I wear a mask. I interact fine with other people. My freedom is not infringed on by wearing a mask.

Around here, about 75% of people out wear masks of some kind and that number seems to be growing. It has not stopped people from talking or paying each other compliments (or arguing for that matter). In fact, if anything the 6' rule and social distancing has reminded people of basics like holding the door for each other and the need for kindness.


Do you have 6' length arms?




We are in the middle of a pandemic. People. are. dying. Maybe they would've died later rather than sooner. Maybe the numbers are wrong. SO WHAT?! People are still dying from a contagious disease, and you covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do to help.


We are in the middle of a pandemic each and every year rainsong!
The pandemic I am talking about is the seasonal flu.
It kills 350,000-650,000 people each year!
Much more than Covid-19 has killed so far.

Do you wear a face mask when you go out for the months that the flu lasts?

I feel like you're trying to avoid the issue or guilt-trip or just argue for the sake of arguing. Nothing you have said changes the fact that covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do and it does save lives.

Maybe we should have been doing this a long time ago wrt to the flu! Doesn't change what's happening now. Doesn't change that it helps NOW.

To me, this is a non-issue, so I probably won't engage further. I just cannot get behind the attitude of not only refusing to wear a mask but also encouraging others to not do so. It is a very simple act of compassion that costs very little.

Let me be clear, because it seems I have been misunderstood.

If another person chooses to wear a face mask, all the power to them!
They have the right to do so.

They shouldn't try to lay a guilt trip on others who don't want to wear one.

Agreed, and it occurred to me that I may have come across as attempting to guilt-trip others. Not my intention! I don't necessarily agree with with a lot of the reasoning that's being given behind not wearing it. But my disagreement isn't an attempt at guilt-tripping, sorry if it came across like that.


A big point I want to make and have been trying to make.
The seasonal flu kills more people than this virus has.
The seasonal flu is a deadly virus. It goes pandemic each year.

Why haven't governments advised people to wear masks at the start of each flu season each year?
Why don't you see people wearing masks, on their own, each flu season?

Masks have been worn during other pandemics. It's not something broadly done in recent in flu-history, but there is precedence. People have been discouraged from taking charge of their health and the health of their communities for quite some time. Not wearing masks is at least in part, a symptom of that.

[greybeard]

Catching the flu --cold-- a virus actually strengthens the immune system.
Protecting people is a double edged sword.
By all means protect the frail and vulnerable but untold harm is being done to the life blood of the economy --the NHS and others need money to function -- where will the money come from with a greatly reduced economy.

Look what happened when the south American tribes met invaders fort he first time -- their immune system had no experience of even the common cold-- they were dying in large numbers -- the invaders hardly affected.
Getting this virus is not necessarily a bad thing, it prepares the immune system for the next one.
No heard immunity, many more will die next time.
Kindness kills.

The immune system is greatly compromised by fear -- thats a medical fact-- there has been so much media hypethat It would not surprise me if this fear generated is responsible for more deaths and the suicide rate will escalate.

What about young couples who thought they had a relatively secure future, a mortgage and a young family.
How many millions unemployed already in the USA alone?
Not a great deal of thought being given to the repercussions of all this.
Im not a David Icke fan but this time Im listening to him.

Chris

[thepainterdoug]

Greybeard, agreed. Look ,its nature, we need to stand up to new viruses with our own immune system. thats what makes us able to thrive and resist sickenesses as new viruses will always be coming out.
you get sick, build immunity and go on. thats how it works.

is a forest fire a good or bad thing? they happen and cleane out the forest for new life.
its us that names these things disasters. yes human disasters. but nature just keeps going. and we need good immune systems to fight a hard enviorment

this being said , im aware and sensitive to others and their fears, so i carry a mask with me and use when appropriate or i have to.

[Tomkoyote]

That didn't last for that long, so the idea that it's some prelude to some permanent mask-wearing-thing doesn't hold water for me.

Really?
One of my client is a travel agency. One of the agents told me this morning that Westjet has just released a statement saying that from now on passengers are required to wear a mask before boarding the plane, once flights resume.

Enjoy your mask.

[Ratszinger]

There have been a number epidemics and pandemics in the past all over the planet and there has never been even the slightest hint or suggestion that wearing masks would solve the issue even a tiny bit. Why? Because it is a nonsense; it solves nothing. In the past, a nonsense remained a nonsense. In 2020 this nonsense has become 'common sense.'
The brilliant minds who peddled the 50,000 dead here and 300,000 infected there, continue to peddle nonsense in trying to show graphs 'proving' that wearing masks has brought down the number of infected.

Wearing a mask is a sure sign of weak thinking and submission; that's how I see it anyway.

As I posted somewhere on this forum...
>> Enjoy your 60 day free trial of Fascism 2.0; the next version will be faster, more detailed and more powerful. <<

My wife and I wore masks our entire careers! Mostly they keep your fingers and hands from getting to your own mouth infecting yourself and they prevent sneezes and coughs from reaching the normal distances of 12 feet or more cutting that by 2/3rds the distance. Most people are stupid when it comes to infection control and they know absolutely nothing about cross contamination as you apparently don't know anything about it coming in here like you have authority on the matter but you don't. We worked in dentistry our entire lives through many flu seasons and I can assure you from personal experience that masks do indeed work to reduce cross contamination this is not nonsense.

The other fallacy that flat pisses me off is people going on and on about people driving their cars wearing a mask! Let me teach you a little bit from my experience. You open that new N95 you just paid upwards of 15 bucks a piece for you want to get max life out of it right? Well, taking that mask on and off is what wears it out not wearing it. From the moment you open that mask you have on average 10 to 30 on and offs with it before one of the bands snaps and it needs replaced. Therefore you keep the dang thing on and you wear it because that makes it last not just a little longer but a whole lot longer!

Most contamination of a work area is done with the hands. It has nothing to do with breathing or coughing or sneezing it has to do with picking your nose unconsciously, wiping your nose, touching your mouth, or your face and quite simply the masks prevent these areas from being unconsciously contaminated.

[TargeT]

How many millions unemployed already in the USA alone?

26 million people (https://apnews.com/e928d091f81f75b9bc8830c7370f41fb)...US unemployment is now the highest since Great Depression in the 1930s... and uhh.. btw, we are starting to destroy food now, just like they did in the great depression. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDCPVJOwkk)...




Not a great deal of thought being given to the repercussions of all this.
Chris

Really? this doesn't seem a little forced? why is there clearly an effort to push fear porn & almost encourage over reaction?

This seems like it could be very planned out & crippling the globe is a very good first step for any "global savior" (AKA NWO)...

seems like, anyway....



Wearing a mask is a sure sign of weak thinking and submission; that's how I see it anyway.


Lazy thinking at least..... I agree


I can assure you from personal experience that masks do indeed work to reduce cross contamination this is not nonsense.



I am not questioning the efficacy of masks (generally it's to protect OTHERS though, not your self... at least in this boring dystopia).

I don't think that was Tom's point either.

[Ratszinger]

How many millions unemployed already in the USA alone?

26 million people (https://apnews.com/e928d091f81f75b9bc8830c7370f41fb)...US unemployment is now the highest since Great Depression in the 1930s...




Not a great deal of thought being given to the repercussions of all this.
Chris

Really? this doesn't seem a little forced? why is there clearly an effort to push fear porn & almost encourage over reaction?

This seems like it could be very planned out & crippling the globe is a very good first step for any "global savior" (AKA NWO)...

seems like, anyway....



Wearing a mask is a sure sign of weak thinking and submission; that's how I see it anyway.


Lazy thinking at least..... I agree


I can assure you from personal experience that masks do indeed work to reduce cross contamination this is not nonsense.



I am not questioning the efficacy of masks (generally it's to protect OTHERS though, not your self... at least in this boring dystopia).

I don't think that was Tom's point either.

I don't know where you got the idea it was to protect others. Its personal protective gear not the other way around. IF they want protection they wear one also. You wear goggles to protect your eyes not everyone else's and you wear a mask to protect your entry points. The fact that the mask can also aid in reducing the distance of sneezes or coughs is just a bonus but not the primary reason or benefit of having it.

In times of plenty a new mask was used for each patient but they have to keep and wear and disinfect the same masks now and some nurses and doctors are expected to work without their own personal protection.

Those nurses quitting over not having a mask are not quitting because they are worried about the patients not having protection. They are quitting because the mask isn't there to protect them and they refused to work in an unsafe environment..

This forum with the too busy server even when trying to edit your own post is very frustrating Bill! You've outgrown your server!

[TargeT]

I can assure you from personal experience that masks do indeed work to reduce cross contamination this is not nonsense.



I am not questioning the efficacy of masks (generally it's to protect OTHERS though, not your self... at least in this boring dystopia).

I don't think that was Tom's point either.

I don't know where you got the idea it was to protect others. Its personal protective gear not the other way around. IF they want protection they wear one also. You wear goggles to protect your eyes not everyone else's and you wear a mask to protect your entry points.


I was a bit obtuse and playing with words when I said "this boring dystopia" I meant the current situation which allows for cloth home-made masks as allowable under official guidance.


That's where I got the idea from.... the CDC/WHO & other organizations I listen to with a huge grain of salt.

[Hym]

I'm used to wearing masks during construction, so the simple masks, and the rare bandanas are available, even pulling the back tie end of my turban over my face during unexpected high wind and debris events. The n95's are commonly used as protection by painters when prepping surfaces and the double filtered masks I've used when roofing and painting with paints, stains, etc. that are high in volatile organic compounds, VOC's. it's funny that the average joe out there now knows some of the lingo we use in construction, maintenance and film set building. PPE's. Personal Protective Equipment.

Considering that I've continuously had a beard for over 36 years, cleaner than most faces I see, I doubt that I'll ever be asked to do the unthinkable and shave it, something that'll never happen. You know, with all of that personal liberty and constitutional stuff about freedom of religion and all, along with the fact that there are so many doctors who have healthy, sanitary facial hair and who treat patients with all manner of disease, with or without various levels of masks.

The areas not covered, the exposed skin on the face and the surfaces of the eyes, are just as susceptible to contamination as are the air passages covered by masks, though the pathways of infection differ.

I do see the attempt at a fascist implementation of a vaccine poisoning agenda that may require a vaccination certificate, or an internal, electronic mark of the beasty boys, to use air and maybe land travel in the possible future, but we'll deal with that if it ever arrives.

Getting an injunction against any mandate to capitulate to a vaccine, even with all of the thousands of studies and hundreds of the best scientists willing to testify to the proofs of the danger of modern vaccination, may be an uphill battle, but it will be one worth the fight. We'll have to get the real constitutional experts, the unattached doctors and the RFK Jr.s to come together to lend us their support.

[DeDukshyn]

... even pulling the back tie end of my turban over my face during unexpected high wind and debris events. .

Off topic but ..

Are you Sikh? (and yes I know not only Sikhs wear turbans) I have always been curious as to why it seems we have no Sikhs on Avalon ...

[DaveToo]

I wouldn't characterize that as hilarious.
Wearing or not wearing a mask is a personal choice.
Spraying someone with Lysol is a physical assault.

Right. It's called sarcasm!


You have a twisted sense of humor.

[meeradas]

Am considering getting this one:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0269/3162/6073/products/217441-2_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1585980025

https://intapted.com/products/plague-doctor-mask-long-nose-bird-beak-steampunk-halloween-costume-props-mask

"Wearing this gorgeous mask will give a stunning and lasting impression of a life time at any events you attend."

PS: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68)

[DeDukshyn]

Wow ... only $30? I need one ... I would totally wear this mask!

PS: thanks for the PS - one of my favourite scenes.

[Hym]

Way off topic here also, but let's call it an unmasking. Not of me, cause I am who I am without the cover of a misguided ego. Here's a little that the mods may choose to move or delete at their request or action. No worries.

Yes. I am a sikh, who being naughty by the nature of being, does not conform to anyone else's definition of being. I do think that there are likely some sikhs on the forum but who, like me, don't have an agenda to sell, as it is antithetical to living that way as seva sikhs, GurSikhs, warriors. It is and isn't incidental to my choices and blessings. There are also likely many sikhs around the world who read these threads.

The difference as a sikh in this world is that I don't adhere to the dictates of the major american sikh organizations, with histories deeply corrupted by their criminal enterprises, their own enhanced weaknesses and their cultish, idol worship of dark yogis. That's a tremendous difference here in the states, especially when considering the simplistic and directly honest basis of the method that lives on personal responsibility and the inclusion of the support of all paths.

It is not possible for fakirs and tugees, in this case spawned from the Ho, Ho, Ho/ Jolly Green Giant (3Ho's-around a street lamp) clan of the wicked witches/super b'ches of the west, to claim any integrity when they steal from thousands of small businesses, collude with government agencies, and promote a fake ass yoga that it's own inventor-in-thief deemed as his job to insure that no students achieve the ultimate goals listed within its name...Kundalini. I accurately call it Kundalini Dampening. The american-presented bastardization of that is nothing of the sort, about the science of the innate presence of the mechanism within, but I must say that he did achieve that goal of non-realization amongst those who couldn't tell the difference between a yogic hustler and a real man.

For those of you who have gleamed some benefit from any of that, and just in case you don't know it already, you are released from the dogma as you have always been able to achieve much more than the stated goals of your "certifications". Make up your own and call it what you want as long as you do it with openness, sincerity, a fearless humility and integrity.

Some wear turbans to consolidate and conceal their prejudice, what a great american sikh and seer friend of mine referred to as "consolidated neurosis". Just as preachers and priests, rabbis, imams and mullahs do, they attempt to hide their true godless nature in plain sight.

Some few wear them to liberate themselves from excessive grounding in the karmic locks of this material world. It is an honoring and care for the gift of the container, the body, which makes it easier to perceive their own value and the value of others beyond the surface structure of their present hold, the many masks of the matrix.


Do the exercises if you prefer and do the mediations at your own insistence and pace, separating any promise of achievements thru mantras "guaranteed" by the salesman, while learning what they mean to you, what their import and connection is to you and to you alone. That MF'er once said he was going to hell and whatever, whenever and wherever that is, he surely earned it. Just remember that the salesman/teacher was a master thief and he chose those around him who mirrored that same callous F*#kery.

The identity of a sikh is all service and not ever dominance, nor the energetic, tonal signature of a fear based presence. Those who are real GurSikhs know me intimately and know who I am, even if we have never met on this grounded plane getting ready to take off.


Self Mod note here:

I sure do get faaaaaar afield on some of my posts. This one is no exception. I've deleted some others with a note explaining my reasoning.

I'm leaving this one up as a public service to those who have gone through what I have and may appreciate a deeper insight, where most all responses, insights and counters are encouraged.

Despite that pseudo-validation of my excesses, I'll get off of my ass and start a new thread if I feel the need to go where this subject takes me. That or find a similar thread where the posts I make fit in.

Back To The Topic!

[AutumnW]

Surgical masks are for the protection of others, for the most part. This doesn't lend itself to voluntary measures, as there will always be some yahoo who doesn't care about anybody but themselves. They will NEVER take precautions to protect me...so ****'em. Make them wear a mask in close quarters.

[AutumnW]

Hym,

I have always thought Sikhs were very cool, good people. Many in British Columbia and well represented at the federal political level. It doesn't seem to be holier than thou.

[DaveToo]

Surgical masks are for the protection of others, for the most part. This doesn't lend itself to voluntary measures, as there will always be some yahoo who doesn't care about anybody but themselves. They will NEVER take precautions to protect me...so ****'em. Make them wear a mask in close quarters.

Could you please expand on that a little?
When someone wears a mask they are protecting others and not the person wearing it? Is that what you are saying?

[Sarah Rainsong]

Catching the flu --cold-- a virus actually strengthens the immune system.
One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.


Protecting people is a double edged sword.
By all means protect the frail and vulnerable but untold harm is being done to the life blood of the economy --the NHS and others need money to function -- where will the money come from with a greatly reduced economy.

But wearing a mask does not affect the economy. It does not stop people from buying/selling/whatever.


Look what happened when the south American tribes met invaders fort he first time -- their immune system had no experience of even the common cold-- they were dying in large numbers -- the invaders hardly affected.
Getting this virus is not necessarily a bad thing, it prepares the immune system for the next one.
No heard immunity, many more will die next time.
Kindness kills.

The immune system is greatly compromised by fear -- thats a medical fact-- there has been so much media hypethat It would not surprise me if this fear generated is responsible for more deaths and the suicide rate will escalate.I don't really quite follow your example. We're the indigenious people being exposed to a novel virus. We're the ones going to be wiped out (theoretically, according to the example).

But I totally agree that the immune system is compromised by fear!


What about young couples who thought they had a relatively secure future, a mortgage and a young family.
How many millions unemployed already in the USA alone?
Not a great deal of thought being given to the repercussions of all this.
Im not a David Icke fan but this time Im listening to him.

Chris
Agreed. There is not enough consideration and support being given to these people!!! But the thread was about masks, so that's what I'm focusing on.




That didn't last for that long, so the idea that it's some prelude to some permanent mask-wearing-thing doesn't hold water for me.

Really?
One of my client is a travel agency. One of the agents told me this morning that Westjet has just released a statement saying that from now on passengers are required to wear a mask before boarding the plane, once flights resume.

Enjoy your mask.

I'm not following this line of reasoning. I don't see that requiring a mask now automatically makes it a permanent thing. With masks specifically, we have precedence to show the opposite.

See, I think part of the disagreement comes from beginning perspectives. I agree that in general, when liberties are handed over to government authorities, they're not given back. But I don't put masks in that category.

Masks are way of opening up liberties where otherwise circumstances might shut them down.


I don't know where you got the idea it was to protect others. Its personal protective gear not the other way around. IF they want protection they wear one also. You wear goggles to protect your eyes not everyone else's and you wear a mask to protect your entry points. The fact that the mask can also aid in reducing the distance of sneezes or coughs is just a bonus but not the primary reason or benefit of having it.

In times of plenty a new mask was used for each patient but they have to keep and wear and disinfect the same masks now and some nurses and doctors are expected to work without their own personal protection.

Those nurses quitting over not having a mask are not quitting because they are worried about the patients not having protection. They are quitting because the mask isn't there to protect them and they refused to work in an unsafe environment..

This forum with the too busy server even when trying to edit your own post is very frustrating Bill! You've outgrown your server!

Yes, PPEs are PERSONAL Protection Equipment. But that doesn't change the fact that masks help stop the spread of contagions. As a mom, I teach my kids to cover their mouths when they cough. That's not for their personal benefit. It's for those around them. That's the common sense part that I'm talking about.

So here's my thing: I've thought about this virus and the response. I've been unhappy about the response from the beginning, so I wondered, "What would I do differently?" One thought I had was that as soon as I SUSPECTED a new, highly contagious (even before symptoms start) respiratory virus had infected a community, mandatory mask wearing would go into effect.

This would slow the spread and allow people to continue to interact in a way that would preserve lives and the economy. It's not to curtail freedom or economic actions. It's to preserve them.

Because what happens when large amounts of people are no longer healthy enough to go to work? Things start to shut down, regardless of government interventions. There simply isn't enough manpower to keep things going.

Now, if you don't believe that the virus is really that contagious or dangerous or that there is even a virus to begin with, you're coming from a totally different perspective. Of course you're going to disagree about the masks, and understandably so!

[Ratszinger]

Catching the flu --cold-- a virus actually strengthens the immune system.
One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.


Protecting people is a double edged sword.
By all means protect the frail and vulnerable but untold harm is being done to the life blood of the economy --the NHS and others need money to function -- where will the money come from with a greatly reduced economy.

But wearing a mask does not affect the economy. It does not stop people from buying/selling/whatever.


Look what happened when the south American tribes met invaders fort he first time -- their immune system had no experience of even the common cold-- they were dying in large numbers -- the invaders hardly affected.
Getting this virus is not necessarily a bad thing, it prepares the immune system for the next one.
No heard immunity, many more will die next time.
Kindness kills.

The immune system is greatly compromised by fear -- thats a medical fact-- there has been so much media hypethat It would not surprise me if this fear generated is responsible for more deaths and the suicide rate will escalate.I don't really quite follow your example. We're the indigenious people being exposed to a novel virus. We're the ones going to be wiped out (theoretically, according to the example).

But I totally agree that the immune system is compromised by fear!


What about young couples who thought they had a relatively secure future, a mortgage and a young family.
How many millions unemployed already in the USA alone?
Not a great deal of thought being given to the repercussions of all this.
Im not a David Icke fan but this time Im listening to him.

Chris
Agreed. There is not enough consideration and support being given to these people!!! But the thread was about masks, so that's what I'm focusing on.




That didn't last for that long, so the idea that it's some prelude to some permanent mask-wearing-thing doesn't hold water for me.

Really?
One of my client is a travel agency. One of the agents told me this morning that Westjet has just released a statement saying that from now on passengers are required to wear a mask before boarding the plane, once flights resume.

Enjoy your mask.

I'm not following this line of reasoning. I don't see that requiring a mask now automatically makes it a permanent thing. With masks specifically, we have precedence to show the opposite.

See, I think part of the disagreement comes from beginning perspectives. I agree that in general, when liberties are handed over to government authorities, they're not given back. But I don't put masks in that category.

Masks are way of opening up liberties where otherwise circumstances might shut them down.


I don't know where you got the idea it was to protect others. Its personal protective gear not the other way around. IF they want protection they wear one also. You wear goggles to protect your eyes not everyone else's and you wear a mask to protect your entry points. The fact that the mask can also aid in reducing the distance of sneezes or coughs is just a bonus but not the primary reason or benefit of having it.

In times of plenty a new mask was used for each patient but they have to keep and wear and disinfect the same masks now and some nurses and doctors are expected to work without their own personal protection.

Those nurses quitting over not having a mask are not quitting because they are worried about the patients not having protection. They are quitting because the mask isn't there to protect them and they refused to work in an unsafe environment..

This forum with the too busy server even when trying to edit your own post is very frustrating Bill! You've outgrown your server!

Yes, PPEs are PERSONAL Protection Equipment. But that doesn't change the fact that masks help stop the spread of contagions. As a mom, I teach my kids to cover their mouths when they cough. That's not for their personal benefit. It's for those around them. That's the common sense part that I'm talking about.

So here's my thing: I've thought about this virus and the response. I've been unhappy about the response from the beginning, so I wondered, "What would I do differently?" One thought I had was that as soon as I SUSPECTED a new, highly contagious (even before symptoms start) respiratory virus had infected a community, mandatory mask wearing would go into effect.

This would slow the spread and allow people to continue to interact in a way that would preserve lives and the economy. It's not to curtail freedom or economic actions. It's to preserve them.

Because what happens when large amounts of people are no longer healthy enough to go to work? Things start to shut down, regardless of government interventions. There simply isn't enough manpower to keep things going.

Now, if you don't believe that the virus is really that contagious or dangerous or that there is even a virus to begin with, you're coming from a totally different perspective. Of course you're going to disagree about the masks, and understandably so!

I don't just disagree with you on the masks I've proven you wrong on your take! A surgical mask is meant to help block large-particle droplets, splashes, sprays, or splatter that may contain germs (viruses and bacteria), keeping it from reaching your mouth and nose as I stated earlier. Surgical masks may also help reduce exposure of your saliva and respiratory secretions to others.

While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, a face mask, by design, does not filter or block very small particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs, sneezes, or certain medical procedures. Combined with a mask a combination of both is the best precaution. I never once stated or suggested that this was not real and again I don't know what you think you read sometimes but it's very real. And again those nurses that quit at NY hospitals did not quit because they were worried about the patients safety by their not having a mask they quit because they felt unsafe without a mask!

[Hym]

Self Modding here. Adjusting the frequency. A little self-correction.

I've deleted my response as it, though it may be interesting to some, is only a far off tangent from the topic.

I just have to initiate a new thread or do some research here in our data base to find an appropriate place to express those experiences.

I've been far afield, off topic, before, but that just didn't fit.

P.S. I do save my drafts and edits from here, as an analysis of how to read my posts more effectively before putting them out.

[DeDukshyn]

Hym,

I have always thought Sikhs were very cool, good people. Many in British Columbia and well represented at the federal political level. It doesn't seem to be holier than thou.

I have great respect for most of the Sikhs I know (and I know a fair few - my boss is one). Sure many of them these days are just going through their religious motions like most "Christians" do, but I also find a lot that I am able to have great philosophical discussions with - we see eye to eye on many levels.

The Sikh religion sometimes seems odd to us westerners but I had a great guy explain all the symbolism behind it all and how Sikhs helped to dismantle the religious wars in India way back in the day, and the methods they used. All cool stuff.

We have a massive temple in my end of the city, and the kitchen is always open to those needing food of any religion or ethnicity ... truly selfless.

anyway ... :focus:

[DeDukshyn]

... trim ...

While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, ... <balh, blah trimm>

Ok you guys - surgical masks are to keep things from coming out of your mouth, dust masks are designed to help keep things like dust, getting in. Neither can stop a virus on a specific sized particle (viruses are way smaller than N95 can protect against), but both will help prevent you from speaking "moistly" (official term as per our Prime minister, lol) on others. Both will provide some protection against breathing in particles of a large enough size, both carry other additional risks.

[DaveToo]

One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.

Since this virus is allegedly new, we can only speculate on what you have said.
Do you have any evidence for what you have said beyond speculation?

Let's add one other point to the discussion.
The vast majority of people who become Covid-19 positive either show no symptoms at all or very mild ones. If as you speculate they do not acquire immunity, but their bodies fight it off successfully, why should a second bout of the virus be any different from the first?

rainsong you will likely be interested in this post in another thread that contradicts your speculation using CDC data:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110505-Covid19-Global-reports-news-and-updates&p=1350287&viewfull=1#post1350287

Please look at the third bullet point:

• the virus that causes Covid-19 is “very vulnerable to antibody neutralization” and has limited ability to mutate, which means it is very unlikely to take masses of lives year after year like the flu and other recurring scourges.

[Sarah Rainsong]

One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.

Since this virus is allegedly new, we can only speculate on what you have said.
Do you have any evidence for what you have said beyond speculation?

Let's add one other point to the discussion.
The vast majority of people who become Covid-19 positive either show no symptoms at all or very mild ones. If as you speculate they do not acquire immunity, but their bodies fight it off successfully, why should a second bout of the virus be any different from the first?

Oh yes, I agree it's speculation. My speculation comes from knowing that there are other biphasic viruses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biphasic_disease) and articles like Explainer: Coronavirus reappears in discharged patients, raising questions in containment fight (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-reinfection-explainer/explainer-coronavirus-reappears-in-discharged-patients-raising-questions-in-containment-fight-idUSKCN20M124) and Doctors warn China coronavirus carriers may show no symptoms of illness (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3047636/doctors-warn-china-coronavirus-carriers-may-show-no-symptoms) and others that I have read over the last few months, but I don't really have the time to go dig them up, so I hope these few links will suffice.

As for your other point, I think using examples might best explain how I'm looking at this. Imagine COVID as an invading army. The BODY is the defending army.


Example #1 - COVID attacks the first line of defense. BODY holds that line and the attack is thwarted without COVID every encroaching on BODY territory.

Example #2 - COVID breaches the first line of defense, but the second line holds. BODY eventually forces COVID back out of their territory. No cities or towns were involved, and no damage occurred during the attack.

Example #3 - COVID breaches the first line of defense and the second. Towns and cities are attacked. Looting and destruction begins to occur. At this point, BODY either is able to fight COVID back out of their territory or eventually COVID wins and BODY is conquered.

Now, in the first and second examples, no damage occurs. There are no symptoms in either case.

Example #1 is what I mean by keeping the virus from ever gaining a foothold.

But in Example #2, the virus does temporarily gain a small foothold.

So successfully fighting off the virus may not be as simple as having no or only minor symptoms. Successfully fighting off the virus means that it never got enough hold to get that far to begin with, it never made it past the first line of defense. But since it can be established in the body well before symptoms start, I don't see how you can use symptoms as a judge for whether or not the virus was kept from ever establishing a foothold.

In other words, if damage by the COVID army is the measure for how far they advanced into BODY's territory, how do you know whether they made it past the first line of defense or the second?

So that's why I don't think that the severity of symptoms is necessarily a good indication of how this virus is going to act in future, which yes, we're only speculating on.

Infected but Feeling Fine: The Unwitting Coronavirus Spreaders (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-transmission.html)

So if COVID is a biphasic disease, then it's more like Example #2 but with a bit more nuance.

Consider this Example #2A - COVID breaches the first line of defense and sends a covert group to damage a dam that is providing power to BODY. The group succeeds and the dam is compromised. But BODY pushes COVID back out of their territory before any cities or towns are attacked. The dam is still compromised. It's just waiting for the right storm to come along and finish the job, demolishing the dam and destroying the power system along with many communities. But since the damage was covert, BODY doesn't know about it.

So the damage to the dam was still done, even though BODY or any other observing kingdom does not see that. That's how I see the second wave being different than the first. The second wave comes as a totally different style of attack.

[DaveToo]

Thanks for taking the time to explain your position.






One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.

Since this virus is allegedly new, we can only speculate on what you have said.
Do you have any evidence for what you have said beyond speculation?

Let's add one other point to the discussion.
The vast majority of people who become Covid-19 positive either show no symptoms at all or very mild ones. If as you speculate they do not acquire immunity, but their bodies fight it off successfully, why should a second bout of the virus be any different from the first?

Oh yes, I agree it's speculation. My speculation comes from knowing that there are other biphasic viruses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biphasic_disease) and articles...

As for your other point, I think using examples might best explain how I'm looking at this. Imagine COVID as an invading army. The BODY is the defending army.

Example #1 - COVID attacks the first line of defense. BODY holds that line and the attack is thwarted without COVID every encroaching on BODY territory.

Example #1 is pretty clear and straight forward.



Example #2 - COVID breaches the first line of defense, but the second line holds. BODY eventually forces COVID back out of their territory. No cities or towns were involved, and no damage occurred during the attack.

When you say "BODY eventually forces COVID out of their territory", to me that sounds like out of the body, no? No harm done at all, even though it breached the first line of defence.



Example #3 - COVID breaches the first line of defense and the second. Towns and cities are attacked. Looting and destruction begins to occur. At this point, BODY either is able to fight COVID back out of their territory or eventually COVID wins and BODY is conquered.

Example #3 says either the body kicks COVID out or it doesn't. But you don't say exactly what happens if it doesn't kick COVID out.
There are several possibilities. Body gets sick and recovers. Body gets sick and dies. Body shows no signs of illness but COVID hangs around inside body.



But in Example #2, the virus does temporarily gain a small foothold.

So successfully fighting off the virus may not be as simple as having no or only minor symptoms. Successfully fighting off the virus means that it never got enough hold to get that far to begin with, it never made it past the first line of defense.

I disagree here. You can successfully fight off the virus at the first line of defence, second or even third! So long as you win in the end, you have successfully fought off the virus.

But since it can be established in the body well before symptoms start, I don't see how you can use symptoms as a judge for whether or not the virus was kept from ever establishing a foothold.
I agree with you on this. It is certainly possible that the virus can hang around for a short or long period of time, undetected.



In other words, if damage by the COVID army is the measure for how far they advanced into BODY's territory, how do you know whether they made it past the first line of defense or the second?

So that's why I don't think that the severity of symptoms is necessarily a good indication of how this virus is going to act in future, which yes, we're only speculating on.

I agree with you on these points.

[TomKat]

Amazing parallels between this new flu and the 1957 one:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-1957-a-new-flu-appeared-in-asia-the-world-watched-and-waited-for-it-to-spread/2020/03/17/9f5205b4-685f-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html

[greybeard]

Its very hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.
There is much talk about this virus being different --then how come experts are talking about herd immunity developing?
Some say no worse that the seasonal flu but different.
Its also implied that seasonal flu did not happen this year but hospitals wont be able to cope when the next virus wave hits at the same time as seasonal flu end of this year.

Think it falls in to do you believe the propaganda that the only thing that will save you is an anti virus injection when this is available. Or do you believe that your body is amazing and for the great majority the immune system will cope fine.
I dont think wearing a mask will stop you getting this virus or spreading it.

I was in hospital for my monthly eye injection last Friday -- I was given a mask to wear which was somewhat uncomfortable and I could not do the eye tests as my glasses kept steaming up due to breath heading upwards on to the glasses and them steaming up.
Regardless of mask the breath was going in and out and finding the easiest route --that is bypassing the mask at least in part.
Thats my practical experience.
Chris

[Valerie Villars]

This is a great thread. I haven't gotten past page two, but man you all had me laughing for a while. I love you all.

I don't wear a mask, but it's only because I have always felt weird about wearing a mask of any kind. I just always felt like we are all wearing masks already and it was dumb to add another layer to an already muddled situation as we have here on Planet Earth.

And I come from a city where everyone wears masks during Mardi Gras. I'd just put my sunglasses on and call it a day.

[Luke Holiday]

4. I have presented statistical evidence on this forum for:

a. lockdown vs non-lockdown and the results showed that lockdown countries had no statistical significance in lowering death rates - in fact those countries with no lockdown had a lower mortality rates.

b. I also provided a statistical analysis of worldwide mortality rates looking at each country and found that there has been no increase in worldwide mortality rates since 2017.


5. There is an abundance of evidence supporting that death numbers are being greatly inflated.

You are averaging out the mortality rates by looking at each country as a whole . In other words: your "statistical analysis" is meaningless. You have to consider smaller regions separately; for example here are the statistics about the deaths per month in the city of Bergamo over the last ten years:


As hospitals become overcrowded, patients are being asked to stay at home until they display the most serious symptoms. Many will die in their houses or nursing homes and may not even be counted as Covid-19 cases unless they’re tested post-mortem.

Last week, two researchers from northern Italy made this point forcefully when looking at Nembro, a small town near Bergamo that has been very severely hit by the outbreak. Writing in Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera they found there had been 158 deaths in the town in 2020 so far, as opposed to 35 on average in the previous five years. They noted that Nembro had only counted 31 deaths from Covid-19, which looks like an underestimate.

In other towns nearby, including Bergamo itself, the trend seemed identical. The researchers made the point that the only reliable indicator in the end will be “excess deaths” — namely, how many more people have died in total compared to a “normal” year.

Death per month in Bergamo over the last ten years*

https://www.moonofalabama.org/images10/bergamo-s.jpg

bigger image (https://www.moonofalabama.org/images10/bergamo.jpg)

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/china-did-not-deceive-us-counting-death-during-an-epidemic-is-really-difficult.html

You are averaging out the mortality rates by looking at each country as a whole . In other words: your "statistical analysis" is meaningless. You have to consider smaller regions separately; for example here are the statistics about the deaths per month in the city of Bergamo over the last ten years:

Not sure why you think this would have any impact on what my analysis was trying to accomplish?

The analysis was done to determine if in fact, a new disease was causing massive loss of life as depicted on MSM on a nightly basis.

If their was truly a significant loss of life then it would it show up as an uptick in mortality rates for the first quarter of 2020. If this disease was in fact an extension of to the seasonl flu then there would be no increase in the worldwide mortality rates. I was particularly interested in the countries of china, US, Italy, and Sweden - each of which clearly showed no increases in mortality rates.


… I would counter argue that your analysis of smaller areas is meaningless to what I was trying to accomplish. I wanted to see the big picture on how each country's mortality rates compared on a yearly basis.

Perhaps looking at smaller regions is something you would like to take on :)


be well

Luke

[Sarah Rainsong]

Thanks, I think we understand each other, and I don't want to derail this thread, but just to clarify a couple things...


Thanks for taking the time to explain your position.






One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.

Since this virus is allegedly new, we can only speculate on what you have said.
Do you have any evidence for what you have said beyond speculation?

Let's add one other point to the discussion.
The vast majority of people who become Covid-19 positive either show no symptoms at all or very mild ones. If as you speculate they do not acquire immunity, but their bodies fight it off successfully, why should a second bout of the virus be any different from the first?

Oh yes, I agree it's speculation. My speculation comes from knowing that there are other biphasic viruses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biphasic_disease) and articles...

As for your other point, I think using examples might best explain how I'm looking at this. Imagine COVID as an invading army. The BODY is the defending army.

Example #1 - COVID attacks the first line of defense. BODY holds that line and the attack is thwarted without COVID every encroaching on BODY territory.

Example #1 is pretty clear and straight forward.



Example #2 - COVID breaches the first line of defense, but the second line holds. BODY eventually forces COVID back out of their territory. No cities or towns were involved, and no damage occurred during the attack.

When you say "BODY eventually forces COVID out of their territory", to me that sounds like out of the body, no? No harm done at all, even though it breached the first line of defence. Yes. No harm done. The virus attacked, the body repelled. In example #1, the immune system was never engaged. The virus never made it through the aura and/or the thermoregulatory and/or integumentary systems--your first lines of defense (not the immune system). In #2, the virus made it far enough to engage the immune system but was defeated before replicating enough to get symptoms going.



Example #3 - COVID breaches the first line of defense and the second. Towns and cities are attacked. Looting and destruction begins to occur. At this point, BODY either is able to fight COVID back out of their territory or eventually COVID wins and BODY is conquered.

Example #3 says either the body kicks COVID out or it doesn't. But you don't say exactly what happens if it doesn't kick COVID out.
There are several possibilities. Body gets sick and recovers. Body gets sick and dies. Body shows no signs of illness but COVID hangs around inside body.
So in this example, the immune system has kicked in full gear, stimulating symptoms, and we have a noticeable fight going on. The fight can ebb and flow and yes, either eventually the body wins and recovers, or it loses and dies.



But in Example #2, the virus does temporarily gain a small foothold.

So successfully fighting off the virus may not be as simple as having no or only minor symptoms. Successfully fighting off the virus means that it never got enough hold to get that far to begin with, it never made it past the first line of defense.

I disagree here. You can successfully fight off the virus at the first line of defence, second or even third! So long as you win in the end, you have successfully fought off the virus. Agreed. My point was more in relation to symptoms. The virus can be present before the symptoms start (before the fight really begins in Example #3). So even without symptoms, the virus can still be present.

But since it can be established in the body well before symptoms start, I don't see how you can use symptoms as a judge for whether or not the virus was kept from ever establishing a foothold.
I agree with you on this. It is certainly possible that the virus can hang around for a short or long period of time, undetected.



In other words, if damage by the COVID army is the measure for how far they advanced into BODY's territory, how do you know whether they made it past the first line of defense or the second?

So that's why I don't think that the severity of symptoms is necessarily a good indication of how this virus is going to act in future, which yes, we're only speculating on.

I agree with you on these points.

At this point, I think I may have just made this less clear. :facepalm::bigsmile:

Basically, I agree with you. As long as the virus is defeated and body wins in the long run, it doesn't matter how many lines of defense the virus passed through. My main point is only that this virus that doesn't always show symptoms, a lack of symptoms does not necessarily mean that the virus was defeated. Too many unknowns at this point for me to be comfortable with that assumption that no symptoms or little symptoms means that the road ahead is all free and clear.

[AutumnW]

This is a great thread. I haven't gotten past page two, but man you all had me laughing for a while. I love you all.

I don't wear a mask, but it's only because I have always felt weird about wearing a mask of any kind. I just always felt like we are all wearing masks already and it was dumb to add another layer to an already muddled situation as we have here on Planet Earth.

And I come from a city where everyone wears masks during Mardi Gras. I'd just put my sunglasses on and call it a day.

Pastor who decried hysteria, dies of Corona Virus after attending Mardi Gras.

A little over a month ago, Pastor Spradlin, who was 66, drove with his wife Jean the 900 miles (1500 km) from their home in Virginia to Louisiana for Mardi Gras.

He viewed the festivities as an opportunity, through music, to save the souls of some of the hundreds of thousands of people that would attend.

Jesus loved him...past tense.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52157824

[AutumnW]

Luke,

Mortality rates have spiked in some locales, many of those areas were late to institute lock down measures, in more densely packed areas with populations that are older.
The objective is to slowly acquire herd immunity, through vaccine or direct exposure. Vaccine may turn out to be preferable, depending on the nature of the virus. If the virus turns out to have devastating post viral consequences, it might be imperative to do everything we can logically do while we wait for a vaccine. That may include masking up to prevent larger particles from reaching other people.

Greybeard,

When you masked up for your eye appointment, you do this more for the benefit of the doctor than for yourself. His mask protects you and yours protects him. Sure there may be some bits floating in the air, but neither you nor the doctor are going to experience massive amounts of virus hitchhiking on particulate matter coming out of your mouth while talking.

[greybeard]

at the risk of being boring --countless professionals are saying this is no worse than seasonal flu--the death rate similar.
Now were people advised to wear facemasks for seasonal flu?
Ilike others have spent hours looking at various videos and am open minded.

This is just two -- there are loads of professionals saying the same
Investigate deeply there is an agenda -- people are being brainwashed to depend on the state.
Wear the mask get the anti virus or you wont be allowed out.
This is serious manipulation.
Those with strong immune systems will not get the virus or a less severe form.
Even the media now talking about heard immunity.
If you have underlying problems then your immune system is weakened and mask or no mask you are prone to get the virus.
Experts not even that sure how it spreads --if its in the air the you would have to stop breathing in and out to avoid it.
As I say all this is maybe so.
Im old enough not to go painting myself in to a corner.
Im happy to wait some time to see if David Icke is right or not.
Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-2C27YLCGE

Ive added a David Icke video below I hope he is wrong but he joins the dots
Ch


https://www.davidicke.com/video/568476/david-icke-bill-gates-elon-musk-soros-frontmen-top-pyramid

[Luke Holiday]

Luke,

Mortality rates have spiked in some locales, many of those areas were late to institute lock down measures, in more densely packed areas with populations that are older.
The objective is to slowly acquire herd immunity, through vaccine or direct exposure. Vaccine may turn out to be preferable, depending on the nature of the virus. If the virus turns out to have devastating post viral consequences, it might be imperative to do everything we can logically do while we wait for a vaccine. That may include masking up to prevent larger particles from reaching other people.

Greybeard,

When you masked up for your eye appointment, you do this more for the benefit of the doctor than for yourself. His mask protects you and yours protects him. Sure there may be some bits floating in the air, but neither you nor the doctor are going to experience massive amounts of virus hitchhiking on particulate matter coming out of your mouth while talking.

… so you're the one who is going to line up that vaccine? - best of luck with that :)

[Ratszinger]

Luke,

Mortality rates have spiked in some locales, many of those areas were late to institute lock down measures, in more densely packed areas with populations that are older.
The objective is to slowly acquire herd immunity, through vaccine or direct exposure. Vaccine may turn out to be preferable, depending on the nature of the virus. If the virus turns out to have devastating post viral consequences, it might be imperative to do everything we can logically do while we wait for a vaccine. That may include masking up to prevent larger particles from reaching other people.

Greybeard,

When you masked up for your eye appointment, you do this more for the benefit of the doctor than for yourself. His mask protects you and yours protects him. Sure there may be some bits floating in the air, but neither you nor the doctor are going to experience massive amounts of virus hitchhiking on particulate matter coming out of your mouth while talking.

… so you're the one who is going to line up that vaccine? - best of luck with that :)

Wife and I worked for the gov. in the dental corp. and were required to get vaccines every flu season! Never had any issues with them at all in 22 years service. I find it interesting that people feel this way about vaccines but don't hesitate to get their dog a rabies vaccine and do so gladly. I also find it quite odd that such conspiracy theories exist around the people giving the shots to the public when they themselves get the very same vaccine so you would think if there was any truth to the vaccines being contaminated with harmful or even fatal poisons that they would never subject themselves or their families to it! I'd say unless you are allergic to eggs you are probably safe with the flu vac. Most have egg in the mixture though and people like my mother for example should avoid it due to that reason but otherwise I have not seen any problems with one. Oh and as for the mercury, well, while true there is some in it the fact remains you take in more mercury from one helping of any ocean seafood than this shot will ever pass on to you.

[DaveToo]

Thanks, I think we understand each other, and I don't want to derail this thread, but just to clarify a couple things...

... Basically, I agree with you. As long as the virus is defeated and body wins in the long run, it doesn't matter how many lines of defense the virus passed through. My main point is only that this virus that doesn't always show symptoms, a lack of symptoms does not necessarily mean that the virus was defeated. Too many unknowns at this point for me to be comfortable with that assumption that no symptoms or little symptoms means that the road ahead is all free and clear.

Thanks rainsong. All is good.
With the clarification we are in agreement. :)

[greybeard]

Luke,

Mortality rates have spiked in some locales, many of those areas were late to institute lock down measures, in more densely packed areas with populations that are older.
The objective is to slowly acquire herd immunity, through vaccine or direct exposure. Vaccine may turn out to be preferable, depending on the nature of the virus. If the virus turns out to have devastating post viral consequences, it might be imperative to do everything we can logically do while we wait for a vaccine. That may include masking up to prevent larger particles from reaching other people.

Greybeard,

When you masked up for your eye appointment, you do this more for the benefit of the doctor than for yourself. His mask protects you and yours protects him. Sure there may be some bits floating in the air, but neither you nor the doctor are going to experience massive amounts of virus hitchhiking on particulate matter coming out of your mouth while talking.

… so you're the one who is going to line up that vaccine? - best of luck with that :)

Wife and I worked for the gov. in the dental corp. and were required to get vaccines every flu season! Never had any issues with them at all in 22 years service. I find it interesting that people feel this way about vaccines but don't hesitate to get their dog a rabies vaccine and do so gladly. I also find it quite odd that such conspiracy theories exist around the people giving the shots to the public when they themselves get the very same vaccine so you would think if there was any truth to the vaccines being contaminated with harmful or even fatal poisons that they would never subject themselves or their families to it! I'd say unless you are allergic to eggs you are probably safe with the flu vac. Most have egg in the mixture though and people like my mother for example should avoid it due to that reason but otherwise I have not seen any problems with one. Oh and as for the mercury, well, while true there is some in it the fact remains you take in more mercury from one helping of any ocean seafood than this shot will ever pass on to you.

I dont have a problem with past vaccines in fact I had one a few month back for shingles however its the emotional blackmail thats behind the upcoming one and who owns the vaccine that bothers me. Bill Gates who is also the main donor to The World Health Organization.
Chris

[AutumnW]

I have healthy skepticism of flu vaccines from personal experience. But I also have an illness that effects my immune system, so am not typical. Would I be the first to take a vaccine when and if it comes out? I don't think so. I would wait and see if it causes cytokine storms, or other adverse reactions in the general population and particularly in susceptible individuals.

I am as deeply suspicious of the pharmacuetical industry and the cdc as anyone on this forum. It doesn't mean they can't or won't come up with a decent vaccine or that they are part of a massive and intentional genocidal conspiracy. If big pharma is part of a conspiracy it is to make as much money as possible...without killing off their customer base.

[DeDukshyn]

... If big pharma is part of a conspiracy it is to make as much money as possible...without killing off their customer base.

... and without curing them. The vaccine will likely be designed or pushed in a way that you'll need one every year - like the "flu' vaccine.

[AutumnW]

... If big pharma is part of a conspiracy it is to make as much money as possible...without killing off their customer base.

... and without curing them. The vaccine will likely be designed or pushed in a way that you'll need one every year - like the "flu' vaccine.

That wouldn't surprise me a bit. They are into managing rather than curing. But if the science literature can be believed, the main reason for a different vaccine every year is mutation and altogether different strains that pop up that require different vaccines.

[DeDukshyn]

... If big pharma is part of a conspiracy it is to make as much money as possible...without killing off their customer base.

... and without curing them. The vaccine will likely be designed or pushed in a way that you'll need one every year - like the "flu' vaccine.

That wouldn't surprise me a bit. They are into managing rather than curing. But if the science literature can be believed, the main reason for a different vaccine every year is mutation and altogether different strains that pop up that require different vaccines.

I get why they do it, it makes some sense, however some studies are showing that once you start taking flu vaccines, you become more susceptible to it overall - and then you need to keep getting them - kinda like how a heroin dealer might look to hook people with their initial free sample.

This might just be the overall immune weakening effect that some vaccines seem to have, but either way, its all good for profit models - of which a pharma company won't proceed unless it looks lucrative to them. They aren't in it to help you, that at best is just a potential side effect, where vaccines and drugs are effective or highly desired.

Anyway, we should try to drag this thread back to topic?

[Sophocles]

I wear a face mask when needed because I believe they work as risk reducers.


For those interested here’s an article from Chris Martenson’s latest video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN_YpFhdii4):


Coronavirus Diagnoses In Staff Drop By Half After Boston Hospital Requires Masks For All

After Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston began requiring that nearly everyone in the hospital wear masks, new coronavirus infections diagnosed in its staffers dropped by half — or more.

Brigham and Women’s epidemiologist Dr. Michael Klompas said the hospital mandated masks for all health care staffers on March 25, and extended the requirement to patients as well on April 6.

"When we first began our universal masking policy, we had 12 to 14 new infections per day among our health care workers," he said. "And then after we instituted employee masking, that number dropped down to around eight."

It dropped still further to about six new infections a day once patients had to wear masks, too.

This is by no means gold-plated evidence, Klompas said, and correlation is not causation, but it does suggest that wearing simple masks may help stem the spread of the virus, whether in a hospital or out in public.

Full article (https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/23/brigham-and-womens-masks-infections)

[pacificator]

Me too I wear a face mask as needed.

[TomKat]

Wife and I worked for the gov. in the dental corp. and were required to get vaccines every flu season! Never had any issues with them at all in 22 years service. I find it interesting that people feel this way about vaccines but don't hesitate to get their dog a rabies vaccine and do so gladly. I also find it quite odd that such conspiracy theories exist around the people giving the shots to the public when they themselves get the very same vaccine so you would think if there was any truth to the vaccines being contaminated with harmful or even fatal poisons that they would never subject themselves or their families to it! I'd say unless you are allergic to eggs you are probably safe with the flu vac. Most have egg in the mixture though and people like my mother for example should avoid it due to that reason but otherwise I have not seen any problems with one. Oh and as for the mercury, well, while true there is some in it the fact remains you take in more mercury from one helping of any ocean seafood than this shot will ever pass on to you.

To vaccinate against a life-threatening disease is prudent. To vaccinate against a lifestyle-threatening disease is foolish. But some people prefer to inject unknown concoctions into their veins than to risk a few days in bed.

While I got the Swine Flu and survived to live a full life, this lady took the Swine Flu vaccine in 1976 and became paralysed.

67LMv17Kaic

As Dirty Harry would say, "You feel lucky, punk?" :-)

[DaveToo]

I think this pronouncement from the 'Mother of All Covid-19 authorities' (WHO) says it all with respect to face masks:

"A medical mask is not required if exhibiting no symptoms, as there is no evidence that wearing a mask - of any type - protects non-sick persons. However, in some cultures, masks may be commonly worn. If masks are to be worn, it is critical to follow best practices on how to wear, remove and dispose of them and on hand hygiene after removal (see Advice on the use of masks)"

[Tigger]

I don’t wear a face mask because I want facial recognition cameras everywhere to spy on me and track my movements. I really believe the government wants to keep me safe and secure because I’m so frightened that there’s evil, pestilence, unleashed dogs, conspiracy theorists, tax collectors, runaway trains and all manner of danger everywhere I look. I know that if I wear a face mask, facial recognition cameras can’t tell if I’m a known troublemaker at sporting events, or a gruesome axe-murderer when queueing up at airport immigration lines trying to flee the country. And surely there are toxic chemicals in those things anyway. :ROFL:

[sarcasm is intentional and purely in jest. Apologies if I’ve offended anyone’s sensibilities]

[Sue (Ayt)]

Pastor who decried hysteria, dies of Corona Virus after attending Mardi Gras.

A little over a month ago, Pastor Spradlin, who was 66, drove with his wife Jean the 900 miles (1500 km) from their home in Virginia to Louisiana for Mardi Gras.

He viewed the festivities as an opportunity, through music, to save the souls of some of the hundreds of thousands of people that would attend.

Jesus loved him...past tense.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52157824

It annoyed me how the MSM ran with this one dissing this man. He sounded like a good and joyful guy. And Mardi Gras occurred early on in the crisis. (It was Feb. 25, when only 53 cases had officially occured in the US.) Stay-at-home orders did not even begin in the US until mid March.

[Patient]

I am not going to tell anyone to not get the vaccine, but perhaps you might want to think about some things...

Bill Gates, one of the main "pushers" of a covid-19 vaccine has stated that he wants to bring down the world's population, and he said that a vaccine would make that happen.

The company that he backed for making vaccines made many people in Africa sterile after they were given a vaccine.

SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome - I didn't know what it was when I was young. But there is strong evidence that relates it to babies dying after being given vaccines. Just recently a baby died right in a doctor's office immediately upon receiving a vaccination. (Not the first time this has happened.)

I have children that were dramatically affected from their vaccines. Then my next were not vaccinated and they are so much more healthier than their older siblings. I wish I had done the research prior to my children being hurt.

Considering that there is evidence that there are treatments that cure people from covid-19, and the TPTB are banning it's use and doing their best to hide it. Similarly with cancer. A personal family friend who worked as a scientist created a cure for cancer and then he was "suicided".

With the ability to research and see all this for yourself, why would a person allow someone like Bill Gates to create a 'potion' and then put your arm out and have it injected into your body?

Would you at least read (and take a bit of time to know the reality of the content behind a scientific term) to find out what is in the vaccine before accepting it into your body?

It is easy to see that this pandemic was rolled out to bring in a vaccine for the entire world. (If it wasn't a planned pandemic, then they sure jumped on an opportunity.)

Take a bit of time for yourself and do a bit of research before allowing others' to control you.

[greybeard]

Dr Rashid Buttar video on face masks has been taken down by u tube.
He was a surgeon and pointed out that face masks are useless for preventing transfer of any virus-- like a fence would be to stop mosquitos the mesh too large.
The reason surgeons wear them is the patient has a open surgery so its to stop saliva etc from falling into the open wound
So to be clear he is stating that any government suggestion to wear a face mask has nothing to do with preventing the spread of a virus, it cant
He also points out that the immune system needs exposure to "germs, viruses" to be strengthened.
Chris

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110880-Initiation-of-face-masks&p=1354490&viewfull=1#post1354490

[lloyds]

Yes, absolutely, and you should, too.


The principle behind normalizing the wearing of masks isn't to keep you from getting sick. It's to help minimize spread by limiting how many droplets of saliva you expel by simply speaking/breathing, droplets which, if infected, could very well transmit the virus to another person, and so on. Are masks fool-proof? Absolutely not. And nobody is saying they are, either. At least, nobody with basic sense. But they do help. And help isn't hurting anyone. Something is better than nothing.


Look at countries where wearing masks during sickness has been a cultural, standard practice for decades. South Korea, Singapore, Japan. Look at how much lower their infection rates per capita are, despite how their population is several times denser than, say, the US or Canada. Normalized wearing of masks has no small role in lower transmission rates in these nations. It's not a matter of politics there, or of trusting the government. It's something you just do, without thinking twice, long before this virus was a thing. It's accepted as a viable way to minimize spread of sickness, as well as basic manners and consideration to those around you.


I'm noticing this one little nugget of misinformation spreading like wildfire; the idea that wearing masks is meant to keep you, the wearer, safe from transmission. Not so. It is well known that the virus is so miniscule that unless you have N-95 or better, it's going to pass right through your homemade number.


The principle behind wearing masks is simply to reduce the odds of an infection person spreading it to others, as less saliva droplets make their way out into the air for an unsuspecting passerby to come into contact with. That's it. Nothing more.


That's what experts say, that's what they're advocating, and the only reason why it wasn't stressed from early on was to prevent mass hoarding of masks that would cause a shortage for those who need them (healthcare workers, etc).


This mask/no mask debate is ridiculous. What do we have to lose by wearing masks? And please, spare us the angsty, melodramatic argument that it normalizes authoritarianism or some such nonsense. That argument holds as much water as God damned colander.


Our great grandparents were drafted in a world war and forced to fight and endure horrible, traumatic evils to keep the world in something of a functional state.


We're being asked to stay inside, entertain ourselves, and wear face masks. It shouldn't be this difficult.


I find it ironic that many people who dismiss this pandemic as a hoax caution us not to buy into fearmongering sensationalism then turn around and spread half-baked fear-porn about how the "lockdown" is three steps away from an Orwellian regime that renders the ghettoes of the Holocaust cute in comparison.


While there's certainly more than meets the eye to this pandemic, and while the PTB will surely not let this opportunity go to waste, it seems the ugly head of partisan politics has somehow snaked its way into what is arguably the least partisan issue out there: a f*cking global pandemic.


Make no mistake, this virus is very real, it's far more virulent and violent than the flu, it takes no prisoners, and if you think the lockdown is bad now, just you wait and see how much worse it will get if people keep on dismissing the virus and carrying on as usual. Nature doesn't give a **** who you voted for, she will mercilessly wipe you off the face of the Earth if she has to.


What do you think will happen when we reopen the economy too soon, and people go back to "normal" life and the infection rate skyrockets? When the healthcare system collapses and mass graves are the last resort that become standard?


If there were ever something to usher in a Brave New Regime, it would be that.


So, please.


Untwist you panties, get those rusted critical thinking gears turning again, and wear a damn mask. It's not like they're used diapers.


This is getting ridiculous.

Could not have said it better myself. :cheers:

[azproductions]

Hell no. It decreases your flow of oxygen, automatically making your body more stressed/more susceptible to getting sick. IMO if you wear a mask you’re sleep AF

I will never ever ever wear a mask

[greybeard]

Why are they so keen to get you wear one?
If you really believe they are trying to save anyones life think again.
Drs who have given their reasons for not wearing one have had their videos deleted.
Why?
Chris

[Patient]

I don't wear a mask. I did the research and add to that some common sense.

My problem is when I go out and see those who have masks and you know that they need to be "woken up", but there isn't much you can do at that moment. (The best is when they have their mask on while they are in their car alone driving.) I wanted to create a paper flyer to take out with me and hand them out to people, but my spouse is worried and she is probably right.

The police are looking for any reason to arrest someone with something to do with the pandemic. There must be some incentive, other than them having to meet quotas in order to keep their job.

I just have to be careful when I go out - as much as I need to be aware of the virus, I have to keep my sarcastic mouth closed. But if the chance for a good conversation does present it myself, I will speak loud enough for others to hear.

[Maia Gabrial]

I only wear it inside a bldg because they made it law in PA. But as soon as I walk out, I rip the damn thing off. I refuse to wear it anywhere else.... Personally, I know they don't give a damn about our health. If they did, they wouldn't impose the masks on us.

Dr. Rashid Buttar has made it clear that doctors and nurses in surgery wear masks NOT TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM CATCHING ANYTHING FROM THE PATIENT. They wear them to protect the patient from accidentally getting spit on them; and even protect them from anything the doctors may have.
So, look at the many duped ppl running around outside thinking that they won't catch anything. I get it. They're scared.
It's foolish to believe everything lamestream reports (if you can call it that). Maybe if ppl would just listen to real doctors and scientists who know what they're talking about, then they can calm down a bit more. Think clearer. Lamestream is all about exaggerating everything.

And don't get me started on Fauci and Bill Gates.... murderous traitors....


I watch the eyes of ppl who have to wear masks for 8 hours or more and they look so sick. Know why? They're being oxygen deprived! I knew from years ago that you can't breathe the same air all the time without it having a negative health effect on you. Even death...

This is from WebMD:


When your body doesn't have enough oxygen, you could get hypoxemia or hypoxia. These are dangerous conditions. Without oxygen, your brain, liver, and other organs can be damaged just minutes after symptoms start.

Hypoxemia (low oxygen in your blood) can cause hypoxia (low oxygen in your tissues) when your blood doesn't carry enough oxygen to your tissues to meet your body's needs. The word hypoxia is sometimes used to describe both problems.
Symptoms

Although they can vary from person to person, the most common hypoxia symptoms are:

Changes in the color of your skin, ranging from blue to cherry red
Confusion
Cough
Fast heart rate
Rapid breathing
Shortness of breath
Slow heart rate
Sweating
Wheezing

If you have symptoms of hypoxia, call 911.



As I see it, ppl will die from lack of oxygen before they ever die of this virus... So, the question begging to get asked is this also part of the nasty depopulation agenda?

[DaveToo]

I didn't need validation, but when I discovered this pronouncement from the 'greatest authoritative' health body in the world (WHO) last week I was surprised to say the least that they had the guts to admit the truth.

I posted it last week, but I think it bears posting again, and even made into a sticky here:

"A medical mask is not required if exhibiting no symptoms, as there is no evidence that wearing a mask - of any type - protects non-sick persons. However, in some cultures, masks may be commonly worn. If masks are to be worn, it is critical to follow best practices on how to wear, remove and dispose of them and on hand hygiene after removal (see Advice on the use of masks)"

Now if only the rest of the world would get the WHO memo. :(

[mountain_jim]

MSM Wants You to Normalize Wearing Masks

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1257668683415146496?s=20

1257668683415146496



1257705518241468418


https://twitter.com/sabreaxe/status/1257705086349905926?s=20

1257705086349905926


https://twitter.com/milove131/status/1257724192574734336?s=20

1257724192574734336

[Maia Gabrial]

I noticed that ppl are starting to turn masks into a fad. Geez! What's wrong with those ppl???

[Rawhide68]

3RVG8qNLdoY

Posted this before in this post but it seem to have vanished.
So here we go again

[Mashika]

Whats a fad?

Just something that suddenly becomes very cool and people all around want to do. It seems weird with the masks thing because if it is a "permanent" thing then it can't be a fad. A fad is mostly like "wearing this shirt through summer because it was a challenge or made popular by some artist or influencer" and then it goes away after a bit

I don't think whoever is pushing this mask thing wants it to be a fad, it would go away after a couple months or such, instead of being a permanent control tool as it seems "they" want it to be

[greybeard]

I noticed that ppl are starting to turn masks into a fad. Geez! What's wrong with those ppl???

I was in local Supermarket this morning two staff wearing glass fronted face masks.
I asked what they thought of the situation--They have totally bought into the media fear propaganda.
I just kept my mouth shut.
Im having a hard enough time convincing my family.
Chris

[witchy1]

No I dont wear a mask. Unless its an N95 it wont give you much protection. (the N95 will give you 95% protection for about 4 hours then you will need to change it)

I hope i do get - C19 wont kill me and it will give me immunity. (just as we got immunity to measles, TB, etc)


Points to remember
It washes off easily - wash your hands for 20 seconds in soap & water or hand sanitizer
Don't shake hands with other people
It survives on porous surfaces for 3 days (72 hours) & non-porous for 6 days. Wipe down surfaces if you are worried.
Other people wearing a mask wont protect you.

If they have it it will be on their clothing and if not wearing an N95 mask will have gaps around the mouth and nose where they can be shedding from so stay 2 meters away from others
W

[greybeard]

Most are immune allready.
The great majority only got minor infection.
This is not about the virus its about taking away freedom.
I know I go on like a dog at a bone but this needs to be signed.
otherwise we are just talking about it.
Anyway its a start.

https://veritasliberabitvos.info/appeal/


Ch

[greybeard]

Here I go again
That appeal has at the top a section where you can change the text into various languages its not just for English speaking people.
I sent it on to the Scottish First Lady Nicola Sturgeon -- perhaps others could send it on to Trump -- Boris -- whoever.
Action is important.
Chris

[Ernie Nemeth]

I do not understand the controversy.

A mask, at best, reduces air flow to the lungs - that is its only effect. This reduction in air flow is the savings in terms of protection because you breath less air. In order to draw air through the mask you must breath heavier...but, the heavy breathing opens up spaces around the mask for the extra air - it does not go through the mask.

The mask is only to reduce droplets of liquid that are constantly expelled with our breathing. That's it!

The mask won't save you, but it might slow the rate of infection. Understand that the mask is to slow the number of patients needing medical assistance all at once. The time for masks is way,way over.

Let's get on with life now. Let the sick get aid. Let the healthy go about thier business, whatever it might be.

Remember: Most of us have already been exposed and nothing happened, we were asymptomatic, (ie. healthy).

[greybeard]

I do not understand the controversy.

A mask, at best, reduces air flow to the lungs - that is its only effect. This reduction in air flow is the savings in terms of protection because you breath less air. In order to draw air through the mask you must breath heavier...but, the heavy breathing opens up spaces around the mask for the extra air - it does not go through the mask.

The mask is only to reduce droplets of liquid that are constantly expelled with our breathing. That's it!

The mask won't save you, but it might slow the rate of infection. Understand that the mask is to slow the number of patients needing medical assistance all at once. The time for masks is way,way over.

Let's get on with life now. Let the sick get aid. Let the healthy go about thier business, whatever it might be.

Remember: Most of us have already been exposed and nothing happened, we were asymptomatic, (ie. healthy).

Its fear Ernie
Your take I totally agree with.
This is the first time ever that healthy people have been locked down with disastrous results -- the economy world wide is in melt down.
People need to ask why the Draconian imposition.
Chris

[Valerie Villars]

I did wear a face mask last week. It was a Guy Fawkes mask and I wore it backward on my head. No one said a word.

[greybeard]

Most are immune allready.
The great majority only got minor infection.
This is not about the virus its about taking away freedom.
I know I go on like a dog at a bone but this needs to be signed.
otherwise we are just talking about it.
Anyway its a start.

https://veritasliberabitvos.info/appeal/


Ch

The number of signatures can be seen here.
Fast growing.
22.415 to this moment.

Chris

https://veritasliberabitvos.info/sign-the-appeal/

[justntime2learn]

I did wear a face mask last week. It was a Guy Fawkes mask and I wore it backward on my head. No one said a word.

That's hilarious!

[bettye198]

I was forced to wear one to get a pedicure or else my girls would have their businesses shut down. The girls in the salon were so hot under the mask, constantly pulling it down to down water because it does dehydrate you, and of course being angry about wearing one while they cut hair and polish nails. So this was my first time. I had it on for one hour and by the time I was driven home, I felt so faint, dizzy and nauseous. I knew it was about me breathing in too much carbon dioxide. Those elastics that wrap around your ears? Pinched and hurt. So that was my experience. The End.

[palehorse]

I am in south of Thailand right now and I will tell you that I am not wearing mask in my daily life, but I was denied entrance at the supermarket, the office of electric bill and a major shopping center (anyway they are closed now). Small shops seems like nobody is using mask and I prefer to buy my groceries with them.
I keep one mask in the gloves compartment of my car just in case like I described above and also I had seen some local "city people" complaining about foreign not using mask, another day one lady gave me that look and it was not the pretty look face!
Anyway I do not go outside that much, in my case I will complain with the local authorities because I am guest in their country and I do not want any sort of problem.
I went to the beach to swim last few days and a police officer said it is not allowed to swim these days, offender may face jail time or a fine of 100.000,00 baht ($3.150,00).
That's the situation here, should I wear or not a mask?
I do use when I have to, no big deal for me to keep myself out of trouble.

[dawnawakeningfreespirit]

100 % believe a mask is more harmful than breathing without restrictions. My common sense tells me we develop stronger immune systems if we
A) Do not submit to fear
B) Breathe out whatever air we have taken in
Obviously in cases of a gas pollution or dense smoke a mask with oxygen would be ideal. I am in the UK & in all honesty it has become like a fashion show, some have little elephants prints made of cloth, others are full blown Darth Vadar type thing with filters .. from a source I have read- Allegedly this virus lives for quarter to half a day on skin (unwashed) 3 Days on plastic & 1 day on metal ...

[dawnawakeningfreespirit]

I forgot my most vital point - do you feel this has something to do with facial recognition? Are they testing it out with the new wave of camera & 5g tech being installed to see if we were masked ie protesters they could still recognise us? .... I did have this thought cross my mind...

[Floating]

I was watching the daily Corona Update this evening. All the reporters, that I saw, were touching their masks repeatedly. A lot of good that does.

In my area, I have noticed about 50% or less are wearing something. I do not. I figure if I distance myself, take my vitamins, and wash my hands often, I should be OK. I also do not talk to strangers in the stores anymore. Smile and nod.

I want to know. For the folks that wear a mask of some kind..... what info do you want to hear before you STOP wearing a mask in public? How do we go back to face-to-face, handshaking normal?? Just wondering.

[Hermoor]

I've not washed my hands a single time more than usual since this Orwellian pantomime started.

So far, so good.

[DaveToo]

I want to know. For the folks that wear a mask of some kind..... what info do you want to hear before you STOP wearing a mask in public? How do we go back to face-to-face, handshaking normal?? Just wondering.

This is a good tie-in to my post.

Has anyone here flown on an aircraft in the last month or two?

From all indications, air travel must be a royal PITA now.
I checked Lufthansa's policies, Air Canada's policies and Pearson Intl. Airport in Toronto.

In addition to the ahem, 'new normal' security measures put in place since 9/11, you now
have to contend with body temperature scans, social distancing, mandatory face masks before and during flights and 14 day quarantines at arriving countries.

As to the question posed above about when will the face mask wearing end, I have a feeling that it will never end.
Welcome to the new, 'new normal'. :handshake:

[palehorse]

from a source I have read- Allegedly this virus lives for quarter to half a day on skin (unwashed) 3 Days on plastic & 1 day on metal ...

Are you talking about Prions?

Why some medication for malaria is producing good results? these medications are used to treat malaria which is a parasite that belong to the genus Plasmodium which has more than a hundred species (broad). Some parasite can multiple freely in the environment and do not need a host living cell for that, also some parasites can be uni cell as other can be multi cells.

There is bad science being spread around, watch out!

[Stac(i)]

I do wear a face mask.
I live with a chronic pain condition that makes the prospect of riding out the particular way this virus impacts your body especially grueling, and my recovery from a seasonal average bug is often lengthy.

I absolutely understand that unless I am wearing a medical grade N95 mask, my K95 mask (with a carbon filter vent, so not medical grade) that I snagged to garden during allergy season is not really enough to protect me like I was accustomed to being protected by a mask while working at the Community Health Center during multiple flu seasons.

But I also recogninze some really interesting research coming out showing that a number of the things I was taught in Medical Assistant school were incorrect.
Wearing a simple mask actually protects those around me from getting as much of that cloud of spittle that occurs if I speak, or laugh, or sigh, or sneeze. (note above allergies) If I were carrying the virus but not yet exhibiting symptoms, or discounted early symptoms as just a flair of my regular overall chronic pain, that mask I chose to wear might help them be exposed to less of my viral load.

The magic comes down to amount of virus you are exposed to plus the amount of time you are exposed to it.

Do I wear a mask when I walk my dog at a time when I don't anticipate seeing other people, or can easily cross the street to maintain distance from someone I pass because we are going to be exposed to a tiny amount, if any, of each others viral load, and only for a brief amount of time. No.

When I went into the natural pet food store to check out the selection they had of a specific food, I did wear a mask. I am masking at work, because while we are distancing within the office , we have (presumably healthy) patients coming in one at a time all day.

I recognize that my mask is protecting those other people, not me. I am absolutely, compassionately, lovingly, humanly, ok with that. I want them to stay healthy. Not enough is known about this virus and treating it for me to not worry about being an unknown carrier.

Every person whose eyes I meet over a mask I hope see the gratitude in my eyes, as they express the same care for me by wearing a mask, even when they are not sure it is necessary, and question its value. They value me and the unknown people around them as much as I value them. That is a powerful demonstration of humanity.

So yes, I am wearing a mask.

[Luke Holiday]

No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided.

Well, here's some. The virus has been sequenced 1,204 times since December 2019. (Maybe more by the time you read this!)



https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs


I'll leave it to you to read the research papers. I'm sure you will!

:)
Is it OK to respond if I have a rebuttal.. I am not sure based on what appears to be intended sarcasm? ex. I'm sure you will!Yes, I was making the point. You didn't even try to look. I found all that in about two minutes, maybe three. (And I did read the first paper, too.)

You're making flat statements — "No proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided" — that sound cool and reasonable, but are actually 100% false and incorrect.

Take more care with your posts. You didn't even write "As best I know, no proof that a virus has been isolated has been provided."

You're trying to sound like an authority, and you're not.

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/24/a-vital-paper-david-crowe-challenges-the-discovery-of-the-covid-19-virus/

..Take more care with your posts...


From Bill: Luke, I moved your earlier post to the "There is no virus" thread.

David Crowe's paper was about testing, not about the existence of the virus. Do read what you post.

Bill, The two are not mutually exclusive they are symbiotic.... Please read the article- you'll see. If not, let me know and I will gladly point out the references :)

[Bill Ryan]

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/24/a-vital-paper-david-crowe-challenges-the-discovery-of-the-covid-19-virus/

..Take more care with your posts...

Luke, I moved your earlier post to the Covid19: There's very little danger: Covid19 may not exist at all (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110508-Covid19-There-s-very-little-danger-Covid19-may-not-exist-at-all.) thread, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110508-Covid19-There-s-very-little-danger-Covid19-may-not-exist-at-all.&p=1356656&viewfull=1#post1356656), as this seems to be your position.

David Crowe's paper was about testing, not about the existence of the virus. Do read what you post!

[Luke Holiday]

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/24/a-vital-paper-david-crowe-challenges-the-discovery-of-the-covid-19-virus/

..Take more care with your posts...

Luke, I moved your earlier post to the Covid19: There's very little danger: Covid19 may not exist at all (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110508-Covid19-There-s-very-little-danger-Covid19-may-not-exist-at-all.) thread, as this seems to be your position.

David Crowe's paper was about testing, not about the existence of the virus. Do read what you post.


Bill

Did you read the article? .... It strongly backs up my stance on CV 19 - that being - unless the virus has been proven pathogenic - it cannot be stated as being identified..

Let me know if you would like me to point out the exact reference from the article which substantiates my position.

Oh and thank you for letting me know where you buried/ I mean put said post :)

Be well

Luke

[Bill Ryan]

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/24/a-vital-paper-david-crowe-challenges-the-discovery-of-the-covid-19-virus/

..Take more care with your posts...

Luke, I moved your earlier post to the Covid19: There's very little danger: Covid19 may not exist at all (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110508-Covid19-There-s-very-little-danger-Covid19-may-not-exist-at-all.) thread, as this seems to be your position.

David Crowe's paper was about testing, not about the existence of the virus. Do read what you post.


Bill

Did you read the article? .... It backs up my stance that unless the virus has been proven pathogenic - it cannot be stated as being identified..

Let me know if you would like me to point out the exact reference from the article which substantiates my positionOf course the virus has been identified. I posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1352592&viewfull=1#post1352592), on 22 April, that it'd been sequenced 1204 times. The link is here.


https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs

I checked again, and it's now been sequenced 5,625 times. Sequencing is quite easy to do now, and very many labs have done this, all sharing their findings.

I'm not going spend time engaging in this discussion any more!

:focus:

[Luke Holiday]

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/24/a-vital-paper-david-crowe-challenges-the-discovery-of-the-covid-19-virus/

..Take more care with your posts...

Luke, I moved your earlier post to the Covid19: There's very little danger: Covid19 may not exist at all (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110508-Covid19-There-s-very-little-danger-Covid19-may-not-exist-at-all.) thread, as this seems to be your position.

David Crowe's paper was about testing, not about the existence of the virus. Do read what you post.


Bill

Did you read the article? .... It backs up my stance that unless the virus has been proven pathogenic - it cannot be stated as being identified..

Let me know if you would like me to point out the exact reference from the article which substantiates my positionOf course the virus has been identified. I posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/Well, here's some. The virus has been sequenced 1,204 times since December 2019. (Maybe more by the time you read this!) https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs), on 22 April, that it'd been sequenced 1204 times. The link is here.


https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs

I checked again, and it's now been sequenced 5,625 times. Sequencing is quite easy to do now, and very many labs have done this, all sharing their findings.

I'm not going spend time engaging in this discussion any more!

Bill

I am disappointed that you are shutting down on a topic that is fundamental in understanding what is really going on. I was under the impression this was a discussion forum?

Now to clearly state my position (as opposed to having my position stated) which has been clarified several times on this forum and is strongly backed up by David's brilliant research article currently highlighted on Jon Rappoport's blog, is the following:

In order to prove the existence of CV 19 or any virus, you have to prove that it is in fact pathogenic - ie virus definitively causes said symptom complex.

What I, and many other degreed healthcare professionals, along with several investigative journalists are saying is:

Incredibly this has not been done and because it has not been done, one cannot claim that the virus has been identified!!!

What has been identified is protein packaged sequenced RNA suspected of causing a symptom complex currently being labeled as CV 19 - [B]nothing else!!!

In other words, in order for the suspected packaged sequenced RNA to be considered worthy of the moniker - CV 19 you have to prove that it is causing the symptom complex you are seeing in medical offices: If not - what you have is nothing (a no - thing)

David/jon and many others have adroitly expressed the unfathomable outrage in the fact this was not done prior to locking down a planet, taking away freedoms/ liberties, implementing egregious policies of social distancing/face mask wearing, severely contracting small business, grossly expanding unemployement, ravaging the stock market/world economy, and proposing mandatory vaccinations. (ie the real agenda)


Now Bill, would you like to have a "Real forum discussion" on this issue or are you going to remain shut down on this topic - convinced that there is nothing more to be gained. By doing so - I will be left to assume that you have no further evidence that would add to a meaningful discussion :).

Blessings

Luke

PS: I am not saying that a virus doesn't exist - Nor am I saying that it does.

I am saying that it has not been proven to exist based on: identifying tests, death rates, lockdown vs nonlockdown statistics, lack of scientific backing regarding wearing of face masks or 6 foot social distancing, and my personal observation of working at a hospital, and conversing with medical professional collegues.

I am also saying that what I have seen in the media regarding CV 19 in terms of patients in hospitals is vastly different from what I have experienced.

I remain open to changing my opinion based on provided evidence...:thumbsup:

[DeDukshyn]

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/24/a-vital-paper-david-crowe-challenges-the-discovery-of-the-covid-19-virus/

..Take more care with your posts...

Luke, I moved your earlier post to the Covid19: There's very little danger: Covid19 may not exist at all (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110508-Covid19-There-s-very-little-danger-Covid19-may-not-exist-at-all.) thread, as this seems to be your position.

David Crowe's paper was about testing, not about the existence of the virus. Do read what you post.


Bill

Did you read the article? .... It backs up my stance that unless the virus has been proven pathogenic - it cannot be stated as being identified..

Let me know if you would like me to point out the exact reference from the article which substantiates my positionOf course the virus has been identified. I posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/Well, here's some. The virus has been sequenced 1,204 times since December 2019. (Maybe more by the time you read this!) https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs), on 22 April, that it'd been sequenced 1204 times. The link is here.


https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs

I checked again, and it's now been sequenced 5,625 times. Sequencing is quite easy to do now, and very many labs have done this, all sharing their findings.

I'm not going spend time engaging in this discussion any more!

Bill

I am disappointed that you are shutting down an on a topic that is fundamental in understanding what is really going on. I was under the impression this was a discussion forum?

Now to clearly state my position which has been clarified several times on this forum and is succinctly backed up by David's research article currently highlighted on Jon Rappoport's blog is the following:

In order to prove the existence of CV 19 or any virus, you have to prove that it is in fact pathogenic - ie virus definitively causes said symptom complex.

What I, and many other degreed healthcare professionals, and investigative journalists are saying is: Incredibly this has not been done and because it has not been done, one cannot claim that the virus has been identified!!!

What has been identified is protein packaged sequenced RNA suspected of causing symptom complex currently being labeled as CV 19 - nothing else!!!

In other words, in order for the suspected packaged sequenced RNA to be given the moniker of CV 19 you have to prove that it is causing the symptom complex you are seeing in medical offices.

David/jon and many others have adroitly expressed the unfathomable outrage in the fact this was not done prior to locking down a planet, taking away freedoms/ liberties, and proposing mandatory vaccinations.


Now Bill, would you like to have a "Real forum discussion" on this issue or are you going to remain shut down on this topic - convinced that there is nothing more to be gained.

Blessings

Luke

I thought this was a thread about wearing masks ... ?

[Luke Holiday]

I thought this was a thread about wearing masks ... ?

Well I don't think it is too off topic - a little indulgent perhaps :)

I look at it as just going into fine detail as to why we should feel very comfortable not wearing a face mask in public :)

[DeDukshyn]

I thought this was a thread about wearing masks ... ?

Well I don't think it is too off topic - a little indulgent perhaps :)

I look at it as just going into fine detail as to why we should feel very comfortable not wearing a face mask in public :)

That's all that was needed then, no more details required, except perhaps on a separate thread. :) I also feel extremely comfortable not wearing one, for reasons I posted on the first page. In fact, it would be hard to convince me it would improve my safety, regardless of my stance on the level of harm or contagiousness level.

[Luke Holiday]

I thought this was a thread about wearing masks ... ?

Well I don't think it is too off topic - a little indulgent perhaps :)

I look at it as just going into fine detail as to why we should feel very comfortable not wearing a face mask in public :)

That's all that was needed then, no more details required, except perhaps on a separate thread. :) I also feel extremely comfortable not wearing one, for reasons I posted on the first page. In fact, it would be hard to convince me it would improve my safety, regardless of my stance on the level of harm or contagiousness level.

… fair point :)… Did you start this thread?

I would argue that: if this is truly a discussion forum then some expected leeway should be provided for those who are pejoratively challenged to be able explain, provide evidence and/or prove statements.


I am glad we agree on the mask issue:cocktail:


Blessings luke

[DeDukshyn]

I thought this was a thread about wearing masks ... ?

Well I don't think it is too off topic - a little indulgent perhaps :)

I look at it as just going into fine detail as to why we should feel very comfortable not wearing a face mask in public :)

That's all that was needed then, no more details required, except perhaps on a separate thread. :) I also feel extremely comfortable not wearing one, for reasons I posted on the first page. In fact, it would be hard to convince me it would improve my safety, regardless of my stance on the level of harm or contagiousness level.

… fair point :)… Did you start this thread?

I would argue that: if this is truly a discussion forum then some expected leeway should be provided for those who are challenged to be able explain, provide evidence and/or prove themselves.


I am glad we agree on the mask issue:cocktail:


Blessings luke

You can clearly see that I did not start this thread, I have however, heard the frustrations by a couple members (not this thread's OP btw) in PM about how hard it is to keep threads on topic, which I understand. I've been just as guilty - its easy. But it is always more than welcome when an interesting topic spawns from within a thread that warrants further discussion, that a new thread starts to carry on that discussion. I think maybe this topic you present has enough value to be a thread of its own. Managing a thread can be a bit of work, something I'm personally terrible at, but important topics are usually worth the effort.

[Patient]

When I went into a grocery store today I had a hard time containing myself when people who were wearing masks were visibly uncomfortable with me as I walked past them while NOT wearing a mask.

Someone had a black mask and I couldn't help myself when I loudly whispered "Ninja mask - cool!"

Sure, a bit immature and maybe disrespectful in some way. But people come on!! :)

If they bought a box of those masks maybe they should read the warning label. I will try to get the photo off of my phone and paste it into this thread, but I am not good with that. And I will admit that considering some of my past work experience, that is pretty embarrassing. :)


The label says; WARNING: This product is an ear loop mask. This product is not a respirator and will not provide any protection against COVID-19, Coronavirus or other viruses or contaminants.
Wearing an ear loop mask does not reduce the risk of contacting any disease or infection. User is solely responsible for the selection of appropriate personnel protection equipment for the setting and application. Change immediately if contaminated.

Although I have said it before, I have to say it again - the best is people wearing a mask while driving alone in their car.

[DaveToo]

I recognize that my mask is protecting those other people, not me.

Let's investigate this statement more closely, because I have seen it stated many times and I am a very curious person.

For the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that:

a) viruses exist
b) they can be transmitted from person to person via coughs, sneezes, breathing tiny droplets in the air etc.

Let's categorize people now:

A. Uninfected person
B. Infected person (asymptomatic)
C. Infected person (symptomatic)


So let's start with scenario 1.
An Infected person (asymptomatic) (B) decides to wear a mask.

As Staci states (and let's assume she is correct for the time being) (B) is not protected, but doesn't want to infect another person.
She is wearing the mask because she feels it offers some degree of protection to people around her.

Now let's have (B) encounter a person (D) not wearing a mask. (B) coughs and (D) breathes in a small amount of (B)'s air droplets. Not a big amount, because (B) is wearing a mask. But let's assume the small amount was still enough to enter (D)'s system and let's further assume they eventually come down with Covid-19.

Viruses are sneaky characters. It takes the tiniest amount of droplet to gain access into a person's system.

So what did (B)'s mask accomplish in this case? Not much at all. It didn't stop (D) from becoming infected.


Now let's move to scenario 2.

Let's examine the vast majority of mask wearer's I encounter in the stores. The one's who run away from me (I don't wear a mask).
It is obvious that they haven't read the mask warnings. They are wearing their masks because they are petrified of catching the virus.
It's painfully obvious, you can see the fear in their eyes and their body language.

They are NOT wearing their masks to protect me!
Now let's assume that one of these people is an Uninfected person (A) and encounters me in a store.
Let's further assume that I am an Infected person (asymptomatic) (B).

I cough shortly before we pass by. According to what Staci has said, (and the WHO as well), if tiny droplets are shed when I coughed, (A) will not be protected.

So why do people who are uninfected wear masks?

The WHO says "there is no evidence that wearing a mask - of any type - protects non-sick persons."

So if wearing a mask won't protect you from getting infected, that means viruses can penetrate masks.
And if viruses can penetrate masks, they can enter the person wearing the mask, or they can exit the person wearing the mask and enter someone else.

So I don't see how Staci can say that "I recognize that my mask is protecting those other people, not me."
The mask is not protecting you, nor other people.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Where I live, I haven't worn a mask yet. Very few masks are worn here. Zero cases of the virus, so that may have something to do with it.
What I am finding rather appalling is that there appears to be a trend of designer masks making a fashion statement now, on Facebook. All kinds of artsy and cutesy masks. YUK!
:facepalm:

[greybeard]

The Majority of Professional point out that wearing a mask apart from doing surgery is pointless and may be harmful.
However, freedom of choice should prevail without criticism from wearers or non wearers.

I know its not quite the same but!!
I have never used an umbrella. I dont mind getting a little wet.
I dont mind others using them but sometimes umbrellas can be a little dangerous to other and down right useless when its windy.
I despair when I am served by staff that are not just using the standard mask but curved glass in front of the face mask.
Im sorry for the fear that propaganda has created to induce the wearing of such a cumbersome gadget.
Chris

Ps leading professionals say that
Inoculation/ anti virus/flu jab is not necessary and in fact counter productive.
The immune system needs to be exposed to these things in order to be strengthened for the next virus that will come naturally.

Only those with weak immune system need protected.
Chris

[Snoweagle]

No I do not wear a face mask.

I consider all those that do idiots.

And I find it bewildering that this discussion has lasted for 183 posts and 10 pages.

All because of the FLU!

Yes it is more virulent or nasty but is survivable for the majority of the population.

I nearly died when I contracted it. It laid me out for 18/19 days. This was in December/January when there was no Corona virus. I lost thousands of pounds and persecuted now by bailiffs and collectors, whom are waiting in the wings for this lock-down to finish. No medical intervention.

Now anybody has a runny nose and they go screaming and crying to their medical care. It's the FLU!

Please also note I am 64yrs young with pre-existing medical condition of COPD. Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. Google it and you will see it is incurable.

If you are under the age of 50 then suck it up people.

[DaveToo]

My last post was rather long-winded and cumbersome to read, so I will try to simplify it.

"I don't wear a mask to protect me, it's to protect others"

Really?

You have a one-way mask?
The mask lets viruses IN that can infect you, but it doesn't let viruses
OUT that can infect other people?

Where can I buy one of those one-way masks?

[Eric J (Viking)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9ti6isM-NY

Prof. Dolores J. Cahill Recommends not to wear a mask.

Viking

[greybeard]

I sometimes wonder if people read or watch evidence posted of professional opinion.
My family dont
Chris

[TravelerJim]

Just a short add to this thread. I went to Denver to see a friend this weekend and spent a few hours in two large parks (Cheesman and Wash Parks). Maybe 10% of the people in each were wearing masks even though you are "required" to do so unless you can stay six feet apart. In fact, there was no major effort to stay six feet, which is also "required". My point is that people are waking up quickly (from my perspective). It was great to see.

[palehorse]

Where I live, I haven't worn a mask yet. Very few masks are worn here. Zero cases of the virus, so that may have something to do with it.
What I am finding rather appalling is that there appears to be a trend of designer masks making a fashion statement now, on Facebook. All kinds of artsy and cutesy masks. YUK!
:facepalm:

what a ton of bulls crap, this entire situation is so messed.
Here the temperature is 36 degree but feels like 44 degree (with almost no wind - literally an oven), do you know how it feels using a mask with this heat?
Me and most people in my area are not using it.

[Anka]

I can't breathe normally either, I honestly get dizzy, I have a fever, my blood pressure rises and it gives me an unpleasant general condition, close to the symptoms that are advertised, I wonder how those with respiratory problems can breathe.

The fact that we have to cover the only part of the body that correlates with our soul, the smile of our heart, proves a lot.

https://familist.ro/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Botnita-pentru-caini-600x428.jpg

Now when I want to buy something in stores, our body temperature is checked (no more than 37.3 degrees), at the entrance to the stores, with a thermometer like a pistol aimed at my forehead, and the sensation is unpleasant enough,
with the "gun" on my forehead and the mask on, which for me seems to warn "stop talking" or "stop breathing"
But it's interesting that now that I want to go buy food,
I will have to successfully pass the gunmen at the entrance...

https://i2.wp.com/andreialbu.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/termometru-coronavirus.jpg?resize=626%2C417&ssl=1
I have the greatest compassion for the families of the deceased (a real compassion) and I wonder what is in the soul of the one who is carried on a hermetically sealed stretcher (separate from the world), but especially in the soul of those who were left to die alone (from cause of danger of infection).

What has pushed us people in this world so much that we are afraid of each other when we walk down the street together?
The planet breathes, let's breathe, just to adapt to the whole environment in which we live.
If I were willing to serve 15 years in prison (current law) because I don't want to wear a mask, then I wouldn't wear it.

[indigopete]

This is a really great commentary on face masks. Goes deep into mesh-guages and what really gets through, or stops virus particles at various distances. Also touches on food and drink consumption while wearing masks.

What I found enriching though was the amazing statistical trends that stand right out when you switch from linear to log plots of infections per million when demographics are removed from the sample. Staring us right in the face.

Worth a watch !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DDXG-dHugc

[palehorse]

I was talking with a friend and together we came to the conclusion that a very simple form of protest would be to everybody in your town or city agreed to not wear a mask and let's see what the "authorities" are going to do.
Flood the stores with no mask, do everything normally without wearing a mask. I saw a few been denied entrance include me, but I saw a Buddhist Monk getting through without wearing a mask.
The question is: What do qualify that Monk as an exception?

Funny times we are living.

[pyrangello]

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/whitney-sweden-model So here's the solution that correlates with the no mask , herd immunity , looks like sweden has the answer. As for the counts here in the states , I was told hospitals get 16,000 dollars to admit someone with covid and 39,000 dollars if they go on a ventilator. And if an ambulance picks you up and your sick its listed as covid automatically. My business has stayed open, I wore a mask for a while but now I feel educated enough , I'm good without it and wash my hands much more . As a side note , do not use antibacterial soap, this is another form of blocking your immune system from working properly. Just use regular bar soap or dish soap and rub a dub dub. Your immune system needs to work daily to be healthy.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The mask has become a uniform, like a hijab or curly cues or gold chains or funny hats or tattoos. It is a statement of belief and a visible sign of conformity and support of an ideology or group. It is to make one visibly part of the in-group. It is a means to reduce the stigma of visible minorities in general.

The mask is the great equalizer.

[Tomkoyote]

The mask has become a uniform, like a hijab or curly cues or gold chains or funny hats or tattoos. It is a statement of belief and a visible sign of conformity and support of an ideology or group. It is to make one visibly part of the in-group. It is a means to reduce the stigma of visible minorities in general.

The mask is the great equalizer.
Great cult mentality.
Mask is a sure sign of a weak mind and total submission.
Stay submitted, I will never.

[Franny]

Hi there everyone, I've been reading this thread with some interest and have a question. Not trying to sow seeds of dissension on the thread, just truly interested. Some people state they will never wear a mask, and I understand why. I'm wondering if mask refusers have faced any of the effects of not wearing one.

Do you live in an area where:


Masks are not required
Masks are suggested but not required
Masks are required to enter a shop to purchase food, purchase gas/petrol for your vehicle or take public transportation if no vehicle, enter emergency medical care facility if, for example, your child who just fell off their bicycle and broke an arm - and so on


In the third case, would you wear a mask, walk in with out one or ask/hire a mask wearing person to take care of these tasks for you?

If you attempted entrance without a mask and were refused or escorted out by Security types, threatened with arrest due to no mask, what would you do? Would you consider taking a different approach?

[greybeard]

Franny it does not currently apply in the UK
But I am for freedom of choice -- if it did apply in UK I would not get into confrontation and if there was someother way of getting what I wanted I would take that.

I am currently getting monthly eye injections in local hospital and a mask is put on me -- im seated 6 ft away from anyone else.
I accept the mask without quibble under these circumstances.
As soon as I get out I take it off.

Chris

[Patient]

Some large stores insist that you wear a mask to shop there, and they give you one at the door.

I will wear it to get the items I need.

But the reality is that it does not prevent a person from a virus. Doctors have said so, and it says so right on the box.

The reason TPTB want people to wear them is to I ject fear into the public.

I will not spend my money to scare people.

[Snoweagle]

Social distancing British style. Compliments of Hale and Pace.

3juaQvrlsZw

[happyuk]

I personally do not wear a mask and I think for the vast majority of the population there is no compelling reason to do so.

At the risk of sounding unpopular I also think much of the mask-wearing I see today is simply virtue signalling.

The virus isn’t going away anytime soon. No virus is. It will just mutate into slightly different forms and keep propagating.

Are you willing to wear a mask forever? If so why didn't you wear a mask for the 2018 flu season?

And if you’re not willing to wear a mask forever, why are you wearing one today?

[Franny]

At the risk of sounding unpopular I also think much of the mask-wearing I see today is simply virtue signalling.


Apparently mask wearing is not required for your area.

In mine it's required, along with 'social distancing' to go into a shop/store to purchase food, go into a bank, Post Office, for medical care and more. If not compliant, people can, and have been, arrested. The penalty is a $5000 fine and /or 1 year in jail.

A few days ago I had to go the Post Office to mail a package. I stood in a line that went outside and around the building for about 50 minutes. There is tape on the ground to indicate 'social distancing', but masking is not required outside so I don't. Must go on as one entered the door, however. Most people keep it on but I'm not so sure about virtue signaling, many are still very afraid of the virus.

It usually takes about 10 to 15 minutes total to complete this at the PO.

In this state the incidence of the virus is relatively low. On this island only 77 have tested positive and very few have actually been sick, they don't mention the numbers. They only say that people are released from home quarantine after 14 days. So if they have been sick, it appears to have been mostly mild. One person was hospitalized for a non-specified short time.


I'm not sure when the state will decide to open up. I read that about 40% say they will be afraid to go out in public places with crowds such as restaurants and shopping malls when things open up again. These folks may well wear a mask for awhile even if not required.

[RunningDeer]

In order to un-hypnotize or un-brain wash a person or nation all you have to do is educate people and show them how it was done. An educated mind is a free mind. When you educate people, they wake up. Snap out of the miasma or fog of lies. And truth is restored. By: Dr Eric Nepute - We Must Name The Enemy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_SxUvO-EJU&t=2169s).
https://i.imgur.com/GVib3Sy.gif Shout out to Ba-ba-Ra for the Dr Eric Nepute vid (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-associated-US-political-analysis&p=1357095&viewfull=1#post1357095).


https://i.imgur.com/F5VZkI8.gif

They'll push and push and push until people finally say, "No more!".
For our children's sake, please let it be sooner rather than later.

What does it look like for children returning to school amid the Covid-19 pandemic?

https://i.imgur.com/3fjSAJb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4ihQZKi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Cvov61H.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DcCDNeL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fs0hS3G.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/r6Nsqhv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oU7taWL.jpg

MDJkUqFIboo

[palehorse]

Some large stores insist that you wear a mask to shop there, and they give you one at the door.

I will wear it to get the items I need.

But the reality is that it does not prevent a person from a virus. Doctors have said so, and it says so right on the box.

The reason TPTB want people to wear them is to I ject fear into the public.

I will not spend my money to scare people.

That is the point, it does not protect, but the folks can't understand that. :HELP!:

[norman]

Send in the Clowns




cFCrs6uR-d8

[palehorse]

Send in the Clowns




cFCrs6uR-d8

:clapping: these people are amazing, i am laughing my ass here. shoot them like duck in a pond!

[onawah]

If anyone would know whether face masks are helpful or harmful, it would be Dr. Judy Mikovits
See: eSgN8ONNKVs
and
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/20/plandemic-documentary.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200520Z1&et_cid=DM540595&et_rid=875979263

[Billy]

To wear a mask or not to wear a mask, that is the question ?
Dr. Shiva gives his opinion. (You can skip the first self promotion 10 mins if you wish)

7LUDjfoUZpA

PS. I am a builder to trade and have been wearing masks for more than 45 yrs on various projects. The masks do not stop particles of dust that you can see, so no way can a mask ever prevent a microorganisms from escaping or entering a useless mask.
My opinion. :bearhug:

[Gwin Ru]

Dr. Rancourt: Masks and Respirators Do Not Work – A Review of Science Relevant to Curbing Covid-19 Transmission (https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/05/dr-rancourt-masks-and-respirators-do-not-work-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-curbing-covid-19-transmission/)

Dr. Dennis Rancourt, PhD

https://www.fort-russ.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FRN-1-150x150.jpg
(https://www.fort-russ.com/author/guestauthor/)By Guest Author (https://www.fort-russ.com/author/guestauthor/)
Last updated May 21, 2020


https://www.fort-russ.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/masks-750x430.jpeg


Dr. Dennis Rancourt – May 20, 2020 – A Ph.D from University of Toronto (1984), and is a former professor of physics.

DOI: 10.13140/RG.2.2.14320.40967/1 (https://www.researchgate.net/deref/http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.13140%2FRG.2.2.14320.40967%2F1)
https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/05/dr-rancourt-masks-and-respirators-do-not-work-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-curbing-covid-19-transmission/


Projects: Science reviews relevant to COVID-19 (https://www.researchgate.net/project/Science-reviews-relevant-to-COVID-19)

Download full report PDF (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/D_Rancourt/publication/340570735_Masks_Don't_Work_A_review_of_science_relevant_to_COVID-19_social_policy/links/5e91f42ea6fdcca7890adc58/Masks-Dont-Work-A-review-of-science-relevant-to-COVID-19-social-policy.pdf)

Abstract
Masks and respirators do not work. There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles. Furthermore, the relevant known physics and biology, which I review, are such that masks and respirators should not work. It would be a paradox if masks and respirators worked, given what we know about viral respiratory diseases: The main transmission path is long-residence-time aerosol particles (< 2.5 μm), which are too fine to be blocked, and the minimum-infective-dose is smaller than one aerosol particle. The present paper about masks illustrates the degree to which governments, the mainstream media, and institutional propagandists can decide to operate in a science vacuum, or select only incomplete science that serves their interests. Such recklessness is also certainly the case with the current global lockdown of over 1 billion people, an unprecedented experiment in medical and political history.

Conclusion Regarding that Masks Do Not Work
No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions.

Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public (more on this below).

Furthermore, if there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit.

Masks and respirators do not work.

Precautionary Principle Turned on Its Head with Masks
In light of the medical research, therefore, it is difficult to understand why public-health authorities are not consistently adamant about this established scientific result, since the distributed psychological, economic and environmental harm from a broad recommendation to wear masks is significant, not to mention the unknown potential harm from concentration and distribution of pathogens on and from used masks. In this case, public authorities would be turning the precautionary principle on its head (see below).

Physics and Biology of Viral Respiratory Disease and of Why Masks Do Not Work
In order to understand why masks cannot possibly work, we must review established knowledge about viral respiratory diseases, the mechanism of seasonal variation of excess deaths from pneumonia and influenza, the aerosol mechanism of infectious disease transmission, the physics and chemistry of aerosols, and the mechanism of the so-called minimum-infective-dose.

In addition to pandemics that can occur anytime, in the temperate latitudes there is an extra burden of respiratory-disease mortality that is seasonal, and that is caused by viruses. For example see the review of influenza by Paules and Subbarao (2017). This has been known for a long time, and the seasonal pattern is exceedingly regular.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS:


"Respirator"
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/12/Surgical_N95.jpeg/220px-Surgical_N95.jpeg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Surgical_N95.jpeg)
A blue, Surgical N95 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N95_mask) healthcare particulate respirator and surgical mask cleared by NIOSH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIOSH) and FDA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDA)

[justntime2learn]

"Wailing ghost guitars send in the clowns
Painted plastic faces stealing mommies
make up"

[RunningDeer]

1263151872812040193

[AutumnW]

The matter of masks is pretty settled, except in the alt right bubble. The countries with the fewest fatalities are those who mandated mask wearing in public places, first.

You can justifiably respond with suspicion to the vaccine, to the cause, etc...but wearing masks, just...no. There is overwhelming evidence that it helps.

And again, surgical masks protect other others from YOU. They only protect the wearer marginally. So do others a favor and mask up. I know it doesn't gel with those so called experts who are speaking from a libertarian perspective.

The alt right is being played like a violin on so many issues and this is just another one.

Seriously. This is getting really silly and really old.

You are entitled to your opinion but not your facts.

[AutumnW]

1263151872812040193

Because a few months ago, not as much was known about the virus???Could it be? There were so many unknowns and agencies are and were under political pressure not to sound alarms until absolutely necessary, partly because of the libertarian propaganda sh** show that we are currently experiencing.

Plus, because of the ebola scare and swine flu scare, that never materialized, they were probably loathe to react too soon. There are all kinds of practical reasons that don't require loops to jump through, nor mental gymnastics to appreciate.

Please distance yourself a bit from this reality tunnel, propaganda vortex. Some of the alt right libertarian info is credible and some is not. You need a little distance to gain perspective and see it more clearly.

I say this with respect and admiration for the tenacity to find the truth that motivates this kind of research. Unfortunately, all of our best intentions can be manipulated.

[Philippe]

The views of Dr. Mikovits against wearing a mask are from 30:40 on. She states that wearing a mask drives the infection of your own dormant virus back into and onto oneself.
Maybe there is more further on in this fascinating interview.



If anyone would know whether face masks are helpful or harmful, it would be Dr. Judy Mikovits
See: eSgN8ONNKVs
and
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/20/plandemic-documentary.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200520Z1&et_cid=DM540595&et_rid=875979263

[AutumnW]

Mikovitz is wrong.

[Luke Holiday]

Mikovitz is wrong.

Dr. Judy M. is extremely qualified to make her statements which are backed by science … What exactly do you believe she is wrong about and why?

[Luke Holiday]

this week I have noticed a dramatic increase in the number people wearing masks in public places like wallmart, grocery shopping - over 50% last 3 days, … but not at the park or gym where virtually no one is wearing...


I was wondering has anyone noticed an increased media campaign regarding the mask and Social distancing?

[TomKat]

Mikovitz is wrong.

Judy is very qualified to make her statements which are backed by science … What exactly do feel she is wrong about and why?

Over 20 years ago it became popular among the so-called liberal (actually fascist) population to settle arguments by saying the other is "just wrong." Having studied propaganda, I never understood the theoretical efficacy of the tactic, but perhaps it works on the average person nowadays.

[DeDukshyn]

this week I have noticed a dramatic increase in the number people wearing masks in public places like wallmart, grocery shopping - over 50% last 3 days, … but not at the park or gym where virtually no one is wearing...


I was wondering has anyone noticed an increased media campaign regarding the mask and Social distancing?

Interestingly, the Canadian government is now recommending that everyone wear masks as of a couple days ago, after initially telling everyone that they shouldn't wear masks because they don't really help, a statement support by doctors and experts at the time. It seems there is some hidden mask campaign underway, that goes against a fair bit of logic.

[AutumnW]

Mikovitz is wrong.

Judy is very qualified to make her statements which are backed by science … What exactly do feel she is wrong about and why?

See above posts. Not going to rehash. Mikovits appears to be correct on some aspects of this virus, but is completely wrong on masks. Again, look to the countries who have fared the best and watch Chris Martenson's videos. Get out of the alt right bubble. Bad enough being stuck at home, you don't want to be stuck in an information echi chamber at the same time.

[palehorse]

@AutumnW please enlighten us, and what the f*** means "alt right bubble" ??? amazing all these new terms we have today.

[greybeard]

Listening to this on link
Masks bad for immune system and much more on the video.

https://londonreal.tv/dr-rashid-buttar-hosts-a-doctors-covid-19-roundtable-1000-voices-strong/

You may have to be a member to access.
Worth the
Chris

[RunningDeer]

Listening to this on link
Masks bad for immune system and much more on the video.

https://londonreal.tv/dr-rashid-buttar-hosts-a-doctors-covid-19-roundtable-1000-voices-strong/

You may have to be a member to access.
Worth the
Chris

https://i.imgur.com/tQube71.gif Thanks, Chris. You only have to add an email address for immediate access. 150-160 doctors on the panel.

100 Voices Strong (https://londonreal.tv/dr-rashid-buttar-hosts-a-doctors-covid-19-roundtable-1000-voices-strong/) - DR. RASHID BUTTAR HOSTS A DOCTOR'S COVID-19 ROUNDTABLE




The Most Controversial Voices In The World
Dr. Rashid Buttar is the osteopathic physician and author best known for his views on Coronavirus and its management.

His first book, “The 9 Steps to Keep the Doctor Away” became a Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Amazon INTERNATIONAL BEST SELLER and has now been translated into multiple languages.

[Philippe]

Mikovitz is wrong.

Judy is very qualified to make her statements which are backed by science … What exactly do feel she is wrong about and why?

See above posts. Not going to rehash. Mikovits appears to be correct on some aspects of this virus, but is completely wrong on masks. Again, look to the countries who have fared the best and watch Chris Martenson's videos. Get out of the alt right bubble. Bad enough being stuck at home, you don't want to be stuck in an information echi chamber at the same time.

I re-listened to the views of Dr. Mikovits against wearing a mask are from 30:40 on. She states that wearing a mask drives the infection of your own dormant virus back into and onto oneself. If I got it right she specifically says this virus itself is not infectious But listening a third time i admit it is difficult for me to follow her reasoning.
One should be very educated in this science to know if that is true or an error.

ADDED: I listened now to the Plandemic documentary. No problem following that reasoning and this woman is a truly amazing and courageous person

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-05-22-plandemic-documentary-with-judy-mikovits-in-portuguese-greek-spanish-danish-french-lithuanian-turkish-italian.html

And it is way to early to say that the countries that enforced mask wearing have the best results. Take Africa, Indonesia, India with no masks and no epidemic. That is significant.

Personally I noticed years ago that taking a crowded metro could get my throat itchy in the flew season ( as soon as I get that symptom I take my grapefruitseeds drips and that stops it fast). I do not know if a mask helps, just like I do not know why I started some years ago putting on a mask while sleeping on the 13 h long distance flights between Paris and Buenos Aires. I did it without knowing much but I heard recently from a businessman who has to drive by car to Italy for lack of flights that he felt much better and no more flew symptoms after flying. So there is something.
But this mask wearing and terror lie of a rebound has been driven now on the general population even with spring in full bloom. It is a total aberration and bad for the immune system. Here two third of persons and poor small children in the shops wear it, a very sad sight. I stopped 2 weeks ago unless it is a shop that enforces it to enter.

The "alt right bubble' is quite pejorative as a term but one should of course always be questioning oneself and not move step by step into a false belief system or have a tunnel vision.

[happyuk]

Mikovitz is wrong.

Judy is very qualified to make her statements which are backed by science … What exactly do feel she is wrong about and why?

See above posts. Not going to rehash. Mikovits appears to be correct on some aspects of this virus, but is completely wrong on masks. Again, look to the countries who have fared the best and watch Chris Martenson's videos. Get out of the alt right bubble. Bad enough being stuck at home, you don't want to be stuck in an information echi chamber at the same time.

Easy tiger. He's asking for explanations not instructions.

[Ernie Nemeth]

If you do sign in, be prepared for a major advertising blitz. At least ten emails perday and three or four pop up banners.

No big deal, as one can unsubscribe.

Do not forget to turn off notifications as well...

[RunningDeer]

If you do sign in, be prepared for a major advertising blitz. At least ten emails perday and three or four pop up banners.

No big deal, as one can unsubscribe.

Do not forget to turn off notifications as well...

Good advice. I’d add this is the second time I’ve signed on over the course of a couple of weeks. Neither time did I experience spam nor a flood of advertising. It may be of how I set my preferences in Safari which is an Apple product.

[greybeard]

Off topic
but over 50K have now signed and I thik its important to do so --- its primarily about liberty.
Robert Francis Kennedy Jr signed.
Its in the list of signatures.

The main reason behind the appeal here
https://veritasliberabitvos.info/appeal/

https://veritasliberabitvos.info/sign-the-appeal/

[Gwin Ru]

As a more detail research to add to post # 208 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1357233&viewfull=1#post1357233):


The Science is Conclusive: Masks and Respirators do NOT Prevent Transmission of Viruses (https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/05/dr-rancourt-masks-and-respirators-do-not-work-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-curbing-covid-19-transmission/)

Dr. Dennis Rancourt, PhD
researchgate.net (https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/05/dr-rancourt-masks-and-respirators-do-not-work-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-curbing-covid-19-transmission/)
Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:47 UTC


SOTT Comment (https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The-Science-is-Conclusive-Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses): The following review of the scientific literature on wearing surgical and other facemasks as a means of preventing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and thus preventing contraction of 'Covid-19' was published a month ago. And absent some miraculous suspension of decades of hard science on the transmission of viruses, it's settled...

https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569433/large/iStock_1202072951_1024x683.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569433/full/iStock_1202072951_1024x683.jpg)


Abstract
Masks and respirators do not work. There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles.

Furthermore, the relevant known physics and biology, which I review, are such that masks and respirators should not work. It would be a paradox if masks and respirators worked, given what we know about viral respiratory diseases: The main transmission path is long-residence-time aerosol particles (< 2.5 μm), which are too fine to be blocked, and the minimum-infective-dose is smaller than one aerosol particle.

The present paper about masks illustrates the degree to which governments, the mainstream media, and institutional propagandists can decide to operate in a science vacuum, or select only incomplete science that serves their interests. Such recklessness is also certainly the case with the current global lockdown of over 1 billion people, an unprecedented experiment in medical and political history.

Review of the Medical Literature
Here are key anchor points to the extensive scientific literature that establishes that wearing surgical masks and respirators (e.g., "N95") does not reduce the risk of contracting a verified illness:

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) "Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial", American Journal of Infection Control (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002), Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 - 419.


N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) "Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review", Epidemiology and Infection (https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic-review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05), 138(4), 449-456. doi:10.1017/S0950268809991658


None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.

bin-Reza et al. (2012) "The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence", Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x) 6(4), 257-267.


"There were 17 eligible studies. [...] None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask ⁄ respirator use and protection against influenza infection."

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis", CMAJ (https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567) Mar 2016, cmaj.150835; DOI: 10.1503/cmaj.150835


"We identified 6 clinical studies ... In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism."

Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) "Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis", Clinical Infectious Diseases (https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747), Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934-1942, https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/cix681


"Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant"; as per Fig. 2c therein:
https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569687/large/Mask_studies.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569687/full/Mask_studies.jpg)
Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942, https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/cix681



Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) "N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial", JAMA (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214). 2019; 322(9): 824-833. doi:10.1001/jama.2019.11645


"Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

Long, Y. et al. (2020) "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis", J Evid Based Med (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381). 2020; 1- 9. https://doi.org/10.1111/jebm.12381


"A total of six RCTs involving 9 171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza." Conclusion regarding masks that do not work
No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions. Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public (more on this below).

Furthermore, if there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit. Masks and respirators do not work.

Precautionary Principle turned on its head with masks
In light of the medical research, therefore, it is difficult to understand why public-health authorities are not consistently adamant about this established scientific result, since the distributed psychological, economic and environmental harm from a broad recommendation to wear masks is significant, not to mention the unknown potential harm from concentration and distribution of pathogens on and from used masks.

In this case, public authorities would be turning the precautionary principle on its head (see below).

Physics and Biology of Viral Respiratory Disease, and why masks do not work
In order to understand why masks cannot possibly work, we must review established knowledge about viral respiratory diseases, the mechanism of seasonal variation of excess deaths from pneumonia and influenza, the aerosol mechanism of infectious disease transmission, the physics and chemistry of aerosols, and the mechanism of the so-called minimum-infective-dose.

In addition to pandemics that can occur anytime, in the temperate latitudes there is an extra burden of respiratory-disease mortality that is seasonal, and which is caused by viruses. For example, see the review of influenza by Paules and Subbarao (2017). This has been known for a long time, and the seasonal pattern is exceedingly regular.


For example, see Figure 1 of Viboud (2010), which has "Weekly time series of the ratio of deaths from pneumonia and influenza to all deaths, based on the 122 cities surveillance in the US (blue line). The red line represents the expected baseline ratio in the absence of influenza activity," here:


https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569688/large/Mortality_rate_chart.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569688/full/Mortality_rate_chart.jpg)

The seasonality of the phenomenon was largely not understood until a decade ago. Until recently, it was debated whether the pattern arose primarily because of seasonal change in virulence of the pathogens, or because of seasonal change in susceptibility of the host (such as from dry air causing tissue irritation, or diminished daylight causing vitamin deficiency or hormonal stress). For example, see Dowell (2001).

In a landmark study, Shaman et al. (2010) showed that the seasonal pattern of extra respiratory-disease mortality can be explained quantitatively on the sole basis of absolute humidity, and its direct controlling impact on transmission of airborne pathogens.

Lowen et al. (2007) demonstrated the phenomenon of humidity-dependent airborne-virus virulence in actual disease transmission between guinea pigs, and discussed potential underlying mechanisms for the measured controlling effect of humidity.

The underlying mechanism is that the pathogen-laden aerosol particles or droplets are neutralized within a half-life that monotonically and significantly decreases with increasing ambient humidity. This is based on the seminal work of Harper (1961). Harper experimentally showed that viral-pathogen-carrying droplets were inactivated within shorter and shorter times, as ambient humidity was increased.

Harper argued that the viruses themselves were made inoperative by the humidity ("viable decay"), however, he admitted that the effect could be from humidity-enhanced physical removal or sedimentation of the droplets ("physical loss"): "Aerosol viabilities reported in this paper are based on the ratio of virus titre to radioactive count in suspension and cloud samples, and can be criticized on the ground that test and tracer materials were not physically identical."

The latter ("physical loss") seems more plausible to me, since humidity would have a universal physical effect of causing particle / droplet growth and sedimentation, and all tested viral pathogens have essentially the same humidity-driven "decay". Furthermore, it is difficult to understand how a virion (of all virus types) in a droplet would be molecularly or structurally attacked or damaged by an increase in ambient humidity. A "virion" is the complete, infective form of a virus outside a host cell, with a core of RNA or DNA and a capsid. The actual mechanism of such humidity-driven intra-droplet "viable decay" of a virion has not been explained or studied.

In any case, the explanation and model of Shaman et al. (2010) is not dependant on the particular mechanism of the humidity-driven decay of virions in aerosol / droplets. Shaman's quantitatively demonstrated model of seasonal regional viral epidemiology is valid for either mechanism (or combination of mechanisms), whether "viable decay" or "physical loss".

The breakthrough achieved by Shaman et al. is not merely some academic point. Rather, it has profound health-policy implications, which have been entirely ignored or overlooked in the current coronavirus pandemic.

In particular, Shaman's work necessarily implies that, rather than being a fixed number (dependent solely on the spatial-temporal structure of social interactions in a completely susceptible population, and on the viral strain), the epidemic's basic reproduction number (R0) is highly or predominantly dependent on ambient absolute humidity.

For a definition of R0, see HealthKnowlege-UK (2020): R0 is "the average number of secondary infections produced by a typical case of an infection in a population where everyone is susceptible." The average R0 for influenza is said to be 1.28 (1.19-1.37); see the comprehensive review by Biggerstaff et al. (2014).

In fact, Shaman et al. showed that R0 must be understood to seasonally vary between humid-summer values of just larger than "1" and dry-winter values typically as large as "4" (for example, see their Table 2). In other words, the seasonal infectious viral respiratory diseases that plague temperate latitudes every year go from being intrinsically mildly contagious to virulently contagious, due simply to the bio-physical mode of transmission controlled by atmospheric humidity, irrespective of any other consideration.

Therefore, all the epidemiological mathematical modelling of the benefits of mediating policies (such as social distancing), which assumes humidity-independent R0 values, has a large likelihood of being of little value, on this basis alone. For studies about modelling and regarding mediation effects on the effective reproduction number, see Coburn (2009) and Tracht (2010).

To put it simply, the "second wave" of an epidemic is not a consequence of human sin regarding mask wearing and hand shaking. Rather, the "second wave" is an inescapable consequence of an air-dryness-driven many-fold increase in disease contagiousness, in a population that has not yet attained immunity.

If my view of the mechanism is correct (i.e., "physical loss"), then Shaman's work further necessarily implies that the dryness-driven high transmissibility (large R0) arises from small aerosol particles fluidly suspended in the air; as opposed to large droplets that are quickly gravitationally removed from the air.

Such small aerosol particles fluidly suspended in air, of biological origin, are of every variety and are everywhere, including down to virion-sizes (Despres, 2012). It is not entirely unlikely that viruses can thereby be physically transported over inter-continental distances (e.g., Hammond, 1989).

More to the point, indoor airborne virus concentrations have been shown to exist (in day-care facilities, health centres, and onboard airplanes) primarily as aerosol particles of diameters smaller than 2.5 μm, such as in the work of Yang et al. (2011):
"Half of the 16 samples were positive, and their total virus concentrations ranged from 5800 to 37 000 genome copies m−3. On average, 64 per cent of the viral genome copies were associated with fine particles smaller than 2.5 µm, which can remain suspended for hours. Modelling of virus concentrations indoors suggested a source strength of 1.6 ± 1.2 × 105 genome copies m−3 air h−1 and a deposition flux onto surfaces of 13 ± 7 genome copies m−2 h−1 by Brownian motion. Over 1 hour, the inhalation dose was estimated to be 30 ± 18 median tissue culture infectious dose (TCID50), adequate to induce infection. These results provide quantitative support for the idea that the aerosol route could be an important mode of influenza transmission." Such small particles (< 2.5 μm) are part of air fluidity, are not subject to gravitational sedimentation, and would not be stopped by long-range inertial impact. This means that the slightest (even momentary) facial misfit of a mask or respirator renders the design filtration norm of the mask or respirator entirely irrelevant. In any case, the filtration material itself of N95 (average pore size ~0.3−0.5 μm) does not block virion penetration, not to mention surgical masks. For example, see Balazy et al. (2006).

Mask stoppage efficiency and host inhalation are only half of the equation, however, because the minimal infective dose (MID) must also be considered. For example, if a large number of pathogen-laden particles must be delivered to the lung within a certain time for the illness to take hold, then partial blocking by any mask or cloth can be enough to make a significant difference.

On the other hand, if the MID is amply surpassed by the virions carried in a single aerosol particle able to evade mask-capture, then the mask is of no practical utility, which is the case.

Yezli and Otter (2011), in their review of the MID, point out relevant features:

most respiratory viruses are as infective in humans as in tissue culture having optimal laboratory susceptibility



it is believed that a single virion can be enough to induce illness in the host



the 50%-probability MID ("TCID50") has variably been found to be in the range 100−1000 virions



there are typically 103−107 virions per aerolized influenza droplet with diameter 1 μm − 10 μm



the 50%-probability MID easily fits into a single (one) aerolized droplet

For further background:

A classic description of dose-response assessment is provided by Haas (1993).



Zwart et al. (2009) provided the first laboratory proof, in a virus-insect system, that the action of a single virion can be sufficient to cause disease.



Baccam et al. (2006) calculated from empirical data that, with influenza A in humans, "we estimate that after a delay of ~6 h, infected cells begin producing influenza virus and continue to do so for ~5 h. The average lifetime of infected cells is ~11 h, and the half-life of free infectious virus is ~3 h. We calculated the basic reproductive number, R0, which indicated that a single infected cell could produce ~22 new productive infections."



Brooke et al. (2013) showed that, contrary to prior modeling assumptions, although not all influenza-A-infected cells in the human body produce infectious progeny (virions), nonetheless, 90% of infected cell are significantly impacted, rather than simply surviving unharmed.

All of this to say that: if anything gets through (and it always does, irrespective of the mask), then you are going to be infected. Masks cannot possibly work. It is not surprising, therefore, that no bias-free study has ever found a benefit from wearing a mask or respirator in this application.

Therefore, the studies that show partial stopping power of masks, or that show that masks can capture many large droplets produced by a sneezing or coughing mask-wearer, in light of the above-described features of the problem, are irrelevant. For example, see such studies as these: Leung (2020), Davies (2013), Lai (2012), and Sande (2008).

Why there can never be an empirical test of a nationwide mask-wearing policy
As mentioned above, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public. There is good reason for this. It would be impossible to obtain unambiguous and bias-free results:

Any benefit from mask-wearing would have to be a small effect, since undetected in controlled experiments, which would be swamped by the larger effects, notably the large effect from changing atmospheric humidity.



Mask compliance and mask adjustment habits would be unknown.



Mask-wearing is associated (correlated) with several other health behaviours; see Wada (2012).



The results would not be transferable, because of differing cultural habits.



Compliance is achieved by fear, and individuals can habituate to fear-based propaganda, and can have disparate basic responses.



Monitoring and compliance measurement are near-impossible, and subject to large errors.



Self-reporting (such as in surveys) is notoriously biased, because individuals have the self-interested belief that their efforts are useful.



Progression of the epidemic is not verified with reliable tests on large population samples, and generally relies on non-representative hospital visits or admissions.



Several different pathogens (viruses and strains of viruses) causing respiratory illness generally act together, in the same population and/or in individuals, and are not resolved, while having different epidemiological characteristics.

Unknown aspects of mask-wearing
Many potential harms may arise from broad public policies to wear masks, and the following unanswered questions arise:

Do used and loaded masks become sources of enhanced transmission, for the wearer and others?



Do masks become collectors and retainers of pathogens that the mask wearer would otherwise avoid when breathing without a mask?



Are large droplets captured by a mask atomized or aerolized into breathable components? Can virions escape an evaporating droplet stuck to a mask fiber?



What are the dangers of bacterial growth on a used and loaded mask?



How do pathogen-laden droplets interact with environmental dust and aerosols captured on the mask?



What are long-term health effects on HCW, such as headaches, arising from impeded breathing?



Are there negative social consequences to a masked society?



Are there negative psychological consequences to wearing a mask, as a fear-based behavioural modification?



What are the environmental consequences of mask manufacturing and disposal?



Do the masks shed fibres or substances that are harmful when inhaled?

Conclusion
By making mask-wearing recommendations and policies for the general public, or by expressly condoning the practice, governments have both ignored the scientific evidence and done the opposite of following the precautionary principle.

In an absence of knowledge, governments should not make policies that have a hypothetical potential to cause harm. The government has an onus barrier before it instigates a broad social-engineering intervention, or allows corporations to exploit fear-based sentiments.

Furthermore, individuals should know that there is no known benefit arising from wearing a mask in a viral respiratory illness epidemic, and that scientific studies have shown that any benefit must be residually small, compared to other and determinative factors.

Otherwise, what is the point of publicly-funded science?

The present paper about masks illustrates the degree to which governments, the mainstream media, and institutional propagandists can decide to operate in a science vacuum, or select only incomplete science that serves their interests. Such recklessness is also certainly the case with the current global lockdown of over 1 billion people, an unprecedented experiment in medical and political history.

Endnotes

Baccam, P. et al. (2006) "Kinetics of Influenza A Virus Infection in Humans", [I]Journal of Virolog (https://jvi.asm.org/content/80/15/7590)y Jul 2006, 80 (15) 7590-7599; DOI: 10.1128/JVI.01623-05



Balazy et al. (2006) "Do N95 respirators provide 95% protection level against airborne viruses, and how adequate are surgical masks?", American Journal of Infection Control (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.488.4644&rep=rep1&type=pdf), Volume 34, Issue 2, March 2006, Pages 51-57. doi:10.1016/j.ajic.2005.08.018



Biggerstaff, M. et al. (2014) "Estimates of the reproduction number for seasonal, pandemic, and zoonotic influenza: a systematic review of the literature", BMC Infect Dis (https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2334-14-480) 14, 480 (2014).



Brooke, C. B. et al. (2013) "Most Influenza A Virions Fail To Express at Least One Essential Viral Protein", Journal of Virology (https://jvi.asm.org/content/87/6/3155) Feb 2013, 87 (6) 3155-3162; DOI: 10.1128/JVI.02284-12



Coburn, B. J. et al. (2009) "Modeling influenza epidemics and pandemics: insights into the future of swine flu (H1N1)", BMC Med (https://doi.org/10.1186/1741-7015-7-30) 7, 30.



Davies, A. et al. (2013) "Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?", Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness, Available on CJO (http://journals.cambridge.org/abstract_S1935789313000438) 2013 doi:10.1017/dmp.2013.43



Despres, V. R. et al. (2012) "Primary biological aerosol particles in the atmosphere: a review", Tellus B: Chemical and Physical Meteorology (https://doi.org/10.3402/tellusb.v64i0.15598), 64:1, 15598, DOI: 10.3402/tellusb.v64i0.15598



Dowell, S. F. (2001) "Seasonal variation in host susceptibility and cycles of certain infectious diseases", Emerg Infect Dis (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631809/). 2001;7(3):369-374. doi:10.3201/eid0703.010301



Hammond, G. W. et al. (1989) "Impact of Atmospheric Dispersion and Transport of Viral Aerosols on the Epidemiology of Influenza", Reviews of Infectious Diseases (https://doi.org/10.1093/clinids/11.3.494), Volume 11, Issue 3, May 1989, Pages 494-497,



Haas, C.N. et al. (1993) "Risk Assessment of Virus in Drinking Water", Risk Analysis (https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1539-6924.1993.tb00013.x), 13: 545-552. doi:10.1111/j.1539-6924.1993.tb00013.x



HealthKnowlege-UK (2020) "Charter 1a - Epidemiology: Epidemic theory (effective & basic reproduction numbers, epidemic thresholds) & techniques for analysis of infectious disease data (construction & use of epidemic curves, generation numbers, exceptional reporting & identification of significant clusters)", HealthKnowledge.org.uk (https://www.healthknowledge.org.uk/public-health-textbook/research-methods/1a-epidemiology/epidemic-theory), accessed on 2020-04-10.



Lai, A. C. K. et al. (2012) "Effectiveness of facemasks to reduce exposure hazards for airborne infections among general populations", J. R. Soc. Interface (http://doi.org/10.1098/rsif.2011.0537). 9938-948



Leung, N.H.L. et al. (2020) "Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks", Nature Medicine (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-020-0843-2) (2020).



Lowen, A. C. et al. (2007) "Influenza Virus Transmission Is Dependent on Relative Humidity and Temperature", PLoS Pathog (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.ppat.0030151) 3(10): e151.



Paules, C. and Subbarao, S. (2017) "Influenza", Lancet (http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(17)30129-0), Seminar| Volume 390, ISSUE 10095, P697-708, August 12, 2017.



Sande, van der, M. et al. (2008) "Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population", PLoS ONE (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0002618) 3(7): e2618. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0002618 Shaman, J. et al. (2010) "Absolute Humidity and the Seasonal Onset of Influenza in the Continental United States", PLoS Biol 8(2): e1000316. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pbio.1000316



Tracht, S. M. et al. (2010) "Mathematical Modeling of the Effectiveness of Facemasks in Reducing the Spread of Novel Influenza A (H1N1)", PLoS ONE (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0009018) 5(2): e9018. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0009018



Viboud C. et al. (2010) "Preliminary Estimates of Mortality and Years of Life Lost Associated with the 2009 A/H1N1 Pandemic in the US and Comparison with Past Influenza Seasons", PLoS Curr (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2843747/). 2010; 2:RRN1153. Published 2010 Mar 20. doi:10.1371/currents.rrn1153



Wada, K. et al. (2012) "Wearing face masks in public during the influenza season may reflect other positive hygiene practices in Japan", BMC Public Health (https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2458-12-1065) 12, 1065 (2012).



Yang, W. et al. (2011) "Concentrations and size distributions of airborne influenza A viruses measured indoors at a health centre, a day-care centre and on aeroplanes", Journal of the Royal Society (https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2010.0686), Interface. 2011 Aug;8(61):1176-1184. DOI: 10.1098/rsif.2010.0686.



Yezli, S., Otter, J.A. (2011) "Minimum Infective Dose of the Major Human Respiratory and Enteric Viruses Transmitted Through Food and the Environment", Food Environ Virol (https://doi.org/10.1007/s12560-011-9056-7) 3, 1-30.



Zwart, M. P. et al. (2009) "An experimental test of the independent action hypothesis in virus-insect pathosystems", Proc. R. Soc. B. (http://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2009.0064) 2762233-2242



About the author
Dr. Dennis Rancourt is Ph.D from University of Toronto (1984), and is a former professor of physics at the University of Ottawa.

[Luke Holiday]

43676[QUOTE=Gwin Ru;1357426]As a more detail research to add to post # 208 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1357233&viewfull=1#post1357233):


The Science is Conclusive: Masks and Respirators do NOT Prevent Transmission of Viruses (https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/05/dr-rancourt-masks-and-respirators-do-not-work-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-curbing-covid-19-transmission/)

Dr. Dennis Rancourt, PhD
researchgate.net (https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/05/dr-rancourt-masks-and-respirators-do-not-work-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-curbing-covid-19-transmission/)
Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:47 UTC


SOTT Comment (https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The-Science-is-Conclusive-Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses): The following review of the scientific literature on wearing surgical and other facemasks as a means of preventing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and thus preventing contraction of 'Covid-19' was published a month ago. And absent some miraculous suspension of decades of hard science on the transmission of viruses, it's settled...

https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569433/large/iStock_1202072951_1024x683.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569433/full/iStock_1202072951_1024x683.jpg)


Abstract
Masks and respirators do not work. There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles.

Furthermore, the relevant known physics and biology, which I review, are such that masks and respirators should not work. It would be a paradox if masks and respirators worked, given what we know about viral respiratory diseases: The main transmission path is long-residence-time aerosol particles (< 2.5 μm), which are too fine to be blocked, and the minimum-infective-dose is smaller than one aerosol particle.

The present paper about masks illustrates the degree to which governments, the mainstream media, and institutional propagandists can decide to operate in a science vacuum, or select only incomplete science that serves their interests. Such recklessness is also certainly the case with the current global lockdown of over 1 billion people, an unprecedented experiment in medical and political history.

Review of the Medical Literature
Here are key anchor points to the extensive scientific literature that establishes that wearing surgical masks and respirators (e.g., "N95") does not reduce the risk of contracting a verified illness:

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) "Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial", American Journal of Infection Control (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002), Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 - 419.


N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) "Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review", Epidemiology and Infection (https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic-review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05), 138(4), 449-456. doi:10.1017/S0950268809991658


None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.

bin-Reza et al. (2012) "The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence", Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x) 6(4), 257-267.


"There were 17 eligible studies. [...] None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask ⁄ respirator use and protection against influenza infection."

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis", CMAJ (https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567) Mar 2016, cmaj.150835; DOI: 10.1503/cmaj.150835


"We identified 6 clinical studies ... In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism."

Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) "Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis", Clinical Infectious Diseases (https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747), Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934-1942, https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/cix681


"Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant"; as per Fig. 2c therein:
https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569687/large/Mask_studies.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569687/full/Mask_studies.jpg)
Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942, https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/cix681



Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) "N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial", JAMA (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214). 2019; 322(9): 824-833. doi:10.1001/jama.2019.11645


"Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

Long, Y. et al. (2020) "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis", J Evid Based Med (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381). 2020; 1- 9. https://doi.org/10.1111/jebm.12381


"A total of six RCTs involving 9 171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza." Conclusion regarding masks that do not work
No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions. Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public (more on this below).

Furthermore, if there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit. Masks and respirators do not work.

Precautionary Principle turned on its head with masks
In light of the medical research, therefore, it is difficult to understand why public-health authorities are not consistently adamant about this established scientific result, since the distributed psychological, economic and environmental harm from a broad recommendation to wear masks is significant, not to mention the unknown potential harm from concentration and distribution of pathogens on and from used masks.

In this case, public authorities would be turning the precautionary principle on its head (see below).

Physics and Biology of Viral Respiratory Disease, and why masks do not work
In order to understand why masks cannot possibly work, we must review established knowledge about viral respiratory diseases, the mechanism of seasonal variation of excess deaths from pneumonia and influenza, the aerosol mechanism of infectious disease transmission, the physics and chemistry of aerosols, and the mechanism of the so-called minimum-infective-dose.

In addition to pandemics that can occur anytime, in the temperate latitudes there is an extra burden of respiratory-disease mortality that is seasonal, and which is caused by viruses. For example, see the review of influenza by Paules and Subbarao (2017). This has been known for a long time, and the seasonal pattern is exceedingly regular.


For example, see Figure 1 of Viboud (2010), which has "Weekly time series of the ratio of deaths from pneumonia and influenza to all deaths, based on the 122 cities surveillance in the US (blue line). The red line represents the expected baseline ratio in the absence of influenza activity," here:


https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569688/large/Mortality_rate_chart.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s28/569688/full/Mortality_rate_chart.jpg)

The seasonality of the phenomenon was largely not understood until a decade ago. Until recently, it was debated whether the pattern arose primarily because of seasonal change in virulence of the pathogens, or because of seasonal change in susceptibility of the host (such as from dry air causing tissue irritation, or diminished daylight causing vitamin deficiency or hormonal stress). For example, see Dowell (2001).

In a landmark study, Shaman et al. (2010) showed that the seasonal pattern of extra respiratory-disease mortality can be explained quantitatively on the sole basis of absolute humidity, and its direct controlling impact on transmission of airborne pathogens.

Lowen et al. (2007) demonstrated the phenomenon of humidity-dependent airborne-virus virulence in actual disease transmission between guinea pigs, and discussed potential underlying mechanisms for the measured controlling effect of humidity.

The underlying mechanism is that the pathogen-laden aerosol particles or droplets are neutralized within a half-life that monotonically and significantly decreases with increasing ambient humidity. This is based on the seminal work of Harper (1961). Harper experimentally showed that viral-pathogen-carrying droplets were inactivated within shorter and shorter times, as ambient humidity was increased.

Harper argued that the viruses themselves were made inoperative by the humidity ("viable decay"), however, he admitted that the effect could be from humidity-enhanced physical removal or sedimentation of the droplets ("physical loss"): "Aerosol viabilities reported in this paper are based on the ratio of virus titre to radioactive count in suspension and cloud samples, and can be criticized on the ground that test and tracer materials were not physically identical."

The latter ("physical loss") seems more plausible to me, since humidity would have a universal physical effect of causing particle / droplet growth and sedimentation, and all tested viral pathogens have essentially the same humidity-driven "decay". Furthermore, it is difficult to understand how a virion (of all virus types) in a droplet would be molecularly or structurally attacked or damaged by an increase in ambient humidity. A "virion" is the complete, infective form of a virus outside a host cell, with a core of RNA or DNA and a capsid. The actual mechanism of such humidity-driven intra-droplet "viable decay" of a virion has not been explained or studied.

In any case, the explanation and model of Shaman et al. (2010) is not dependant on the particular mechanism of the humidity-driven decay of virions in aerosol / droplets. Shaman's quantitatively demonstrated model of seasonal regional viral epidemiology is valid for either mechanism (or combination of mechanisms), whether "viable decay" or "physical loss".

The breakthrough achieved by Shaman et al. is not merely some academic point. Rather, it has profound health-policy implications, which have been entirely ignored or overlooked in the current coronavirus pandemic.

In particular, Shaman's work necessarily implies that, rather than being a fixed number (dependent solely on the spatial-temporal structure of social interactions in a completely susceptible population, and on the viral strain), the epidemic's basic reproduction number (R0) is highly or predominantly dependent on ambient absolute humidity.

For a definition of R0, see HealthKnowlege-UK (2020): R0 is "the average number of secondary infections produced by a typical case of an infection in a population where everyone is susceptible." The average R0 for influenza is said to be 1.28 (1.19-1.37); see the comprehensive review by Biggerstaff et al. (2014).

In fact, Shaman et al. showed that R0 must be understood to seasonally vary between humid-summer values of just larger than "1" and dry-winter values typically as large as "4" (for example, see their Table 2). In other words, the seasonal infectious viral respiratory diseases that plague temperate latitudes every year go from being intrinsically mildly contagious to virulently contagious, due simply to the bio-physical mode of transmission controlled by atmospheric humidity, irrespective of any other consideration.

Therefore, all the epidemiological mathematical modelling of the benefits of mediating policies (such as social distancing), which assumes humidity-independent R0 values, has a large likelihood of being of little value, on this basis alone. For studies about modelling and regarding mediation effects on the effective reproduction number, see Coburn (2009) and Tracht (2010).

To put it simply, the "second wave" of an epidemic is not a consequence of human sin regarding mask wearing and hand shaking. Rather, the "second wave" is an inescapable consequence of an air-dryness-driven many-fold increase in disease contagiousness, in a population that has not yet attained immunity.

If my view of the mechanism is correct (i.e., "physical loss"), then Shaman's work further necessarily implies that the dryness-driven high transmissibility (large R0) arises from small aerosol particles fluidly suspended in the air; as opposed to large droplets that are quickly gravitationally removed from the air.

Such small aerosol particles fluidly suspended in air, of biological origin, are of every variety and are everywhere, including down to virion-sizes (Despres, 2012). It is not entirely unlikely that viruses can thereby be physically transported over inter-continental distances (e.g., Hammond, 1989).

More to the point, indoor airborne virus concentrations have been shown to exist (in day-care facilities, health centres, and onboard airplanes) primarily as aerosol particles of diameters smaller than 2.5 μm, such as in the work of Yang et al. (2011):
"Half of the 16 samples were positive, and their total virus concentrations ranged from 5800 to 37 000 genome copies m−3. On average, 64 per cent of the viral genome copies were associated with fine particles smaller than 2.5 µm, which can remain suspended for hours. Modelling of virus concentrations indoors suggested a source strength of 1.6 ± 1.2 × 105 genome copies m−3 air h−1 and a deposition flux onto surfaces of 13 ± 7 genome copies m−2 h−1 by Brownian motion. Over 1 hour, the inhalation dose was estimated to be 30 ± 18 median tissue culture infectious dose (TCID50), adequate to induce infection. These results provide quantitative support for the idea that the aerosol route could be an important mode of influenza transmission." Such small particles (< 2.5 μm) are part of air fluidity, are not subject to gravitational sedimentation, and would not be stopped by long-range inertial impact. This means that the slightest (even momentary) facial misfit of a mask or respirator renders the design filtration norm of the mask or respirator entirely irrelevant. In any case, the filtration material itself of N95 (average pore size ~0.3−0.5 μm) does not block virion penetration, not to mention surgical masks. For example, see Balazy et al. (2006).

Mask stoppage efficiency and host inhalation are only half of the equation, however, because the minimal infective dose (MID) must also be considered. For example, if a large number of pathogen-laden particles must be delivered to the lung within a certain time for the illness to take hold, then partial blocking by any mask or cloth can be enough to make a significant difference.

On the other hand, if the MID is amply surpassed by the virions carried in a single aerosol particle able to evade mask-capture, then the mask is of no practical utility, which is the case.

Yezli and Otter (2011), in their review of the MID, point out relevant features:

most respiratory viruses are as infective in humans as in tissue culture having optimal laboratory susceptibility



it is believed that a single virion can be enough to induce illness in the host



the 50%-probability MID ("TCID50") has variably been found to be in the range 100−1000 virions



there are typically 103−107 virions per aerolized influenza droplet with diameter 1 μm − 10 μm



the 50%-probability MID easily fits into a single (one) aerolized droplet

For further background:

A classic description of dose-response assessment is provided by Haas (1993).



Zwart et al. (2009) provided the first laboratory proof, in a virus-insect system, that the action of a single virion can be sufficient to cause disease.



Baccam et al. (2006) calculated from empirical data that, with influenza A in humans, "we estimate that after a delay of ~6 h, infected cells begin producing influenza virus and continue to do so for ~5 h. The average lifetime of infected cells is ~11 h, and the half-life of free infectious virus is ~3 h. We calculated the basic reproductive number, R0, which indicated that a single infected cell could produce ~22 new productive infections."



Brooke et al. (2013) showed that, contrary to prior modeling assumptions, although not all influenza-A-infected cells in the human body produce infectious progeny (virions), nonetheless, 90% of infected cell are significantly impacted, rather than simply surviving unharmed.

All of this to say that: if anything gets through (and it always does, irrespective of the mask), then you are going to be infected. Masks cannot possibly work. It is not surprising, therefore, that no bias-free study has ever found a benefit from wearing a mask or respirator in this application.

Therefore, the studies that show partial stopping power of masks, or that show that masks can capture many large droplets produced by a sneezing or coughing mask-wearer, in light of the above-described features of the problem, are irrelevant. For example, see such studies as these: Leung (2020), Davies (2013), Lai (2012), and Sande (2008).

Why there can never be an empirical test of a nationwide mask-wearing policy
As mentioned above, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public. There is good reason for this. It would be impossible to obtain unambiguous and bias-free results:

Any benefit from mask-wearing would have to be a small effect, since undetected in controlled experiments, which would be swamped by the larger effects, notably the large effect from changing atmospheric humidity.



Mask compliance and mask adjustment habits would be unknown.



Mask-wearing is associated (correlated) with several other health behaviours; see Wada (2012).



The results would not be transferable, because of differing cultural habits.



Compliance is achieved by fear, and individuals can habituate to fear-based propaganda, and can have disparate basic responses.



Monitoring and compliance measurement are near-impossible, and subject to large errors.



Self-reporting (such as in surveys) is notoriously biased, because individuals have the self-interested belief that their efforts are useful.



Progression of the epidemic is not verified with reliable tests on large population samples, and generally relies on non-representative hospital visits or admissions.



Several different pathogens (viruses and strains of viruses) causing respiratory illness generally act together, in the same population and/or in individuals, and are not resolved, while having different epidemiological characteristics.

Unknown aspects of mask-wearing
Many potential harms may arise from broad public policies to wear masks, and the following unanswered questions arise:

Do used and loaded masks become sources of enhanced transmission, for the wearer and others?



Do masks become collectors and retainers of pathogens that the mask wearer would otherwise avoid when breathing without a mask?



Are large droplets captured by a mask atomized or aerolized into breathable components? Can virions escape an evaporating droplet stuck to a mask fiber?



What are the dangers of bacterial growth on a used and loaded mask?



How do pathogen-laden droplets interact with environmental dust and aerosols captured on the mask?



What are long-term health effects on HCW, such as headaches, arising from impeded breathing?



Are there negative social consequences to a masked society?



Are there negative psychological consequences to wearing a mask, as a fear-based behavioural modification?



What are the environmental consequences of mask manufacturing and disposal?



Do the masks shed fibres or substances that are harmful when inhaled?

Conclusion
By making mask-wearing recommendations and policies for the general public, or by expressly condoning the practice, governments have both ignored the scientific evidence and done the opposite of following the precautionary principle.

In an absence of knowledge, governments should not make policies that have a hypothetical potential to cause harm. The government has an onus barrier before it instigates a broad social-engineering intervention, or allows corporations to exploit fear-based sentiments.

Furthermore, individuals should know that there is no known benefit arising from wearing a mask in a viral respiratory illness epidemic, and that scientific studies have shown that any benefit must be residually small, compared to other and determinative factors.

Otherwise, what is the point of publicly-funded science?

The present paper about masks illustrates the degree to which governments, the mainstream media, and institutional propagandists can decide to operate in a science vacuum, or select only incomplete science that serves their interests. Such recklessness is also certainly the case with the current global lockdown of over 1 billion people, an unprecedented experiment in medical and political history.

Endnotes

Baccam, P. et al. (2006) "Kinetics of Influenza A Virus Infection in Humans", [I]Journal of Virolog (https://jvi.asm.org/content/80/15/7590)y Jul 2006, 80 (15) 7590-7599; DOI: 10.1128/JVI.01623-05



Balazy et al. (2006) "Do N95 respirators provide 95% protection level against airborne viruses, and how adequate are surgical masks?", American Journal of Infection Control (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.488.4644&rep=rep1&type=pdf), Volume 34, Issue 2, March 2006, Pages 51-57. doi:10.1016/j.ajic.2005.08.018



Biggerstaff, M. et al. (2014) "Estimates of the reproduction number for seasonal, pandemic, and zoonotic influenza: a systematic review of the literature", BMC Infect Dis (https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2334-14-480) 14, 480 (2014).



Brooke, C. B. et al. (2013) "Most Influenza A Virions Fail To Express at Least One Essential Viral Protein", Journal of Virology (https://jvi.asm.org/content/87/6/3155) Feb 2013, 87 (6) 3155-3162; DOI: 10.1128/JVI.02284-12



Coburn, B. J. et al. (2009) "Modeling influenza epidemics and pandemics: insights into the future of swine flu (H1N1)", BMC Med (https://doi.org/10.1186/1741-7015-7-30) 7, 30.



Davies, A. et al. (2013) "Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?", Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness, Available on CJO (http://journals.cambridge.org/abstract_S1935789313000438) 2013 doi:10.1017/dmp.2013.43



Despres, V. R. et al. (2012) "Primary biological aerosol particles in the atmosphere: a review", Tellus B: Chemical and Physical Meteorology (https://doi.org/10.3402/tellusb.v64i0.15598), 64:1, 15598, DOI: 10.3402/tellusb.v64i0.15598



Dowell, S. F. (2001) "Seasonal variation in host susceptibility and cycles of certain infectious diseases", Emerg Infect Dis (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631809/). 2001;7(3):369-374. doi:10.3201/eid0703.010301



Hammond, G. W. et al. (1989) "Impact of Atmospheric Dispersion and Transport of Viral Aerosols on the Epidemiology of Influenza", Reviews of Infectious Diseases (https://doi.org/10.1093/clinids/11.3.494), Volume 11, Issue 3, May 1989, Pages 494-497,



Haas, C.N. et al. (1993) "Risk Assessment of Virus in Drinking Water", Risk Analysis (https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1539-6924.1993.tb00013.x), 13: 545-552. doi:10.1111/j.1539-6924.1993.tb00013.x



HealthKnowlege-UK (2020) "Charter 1a - Epidemiology: Epidemic theory (effective & basic reproduction numbers, epidemic thresholds) & techniques for analysis of infectious disease data (construction & use of epidemic curves, generation numbers, exceptional reporting & identification of significant clusters)", HealthKnowledge.org.uk (https://www.healthknowledge.org.uk/public-health-textbook/research-methods/1a-epidemiology/epidemic-theory), accessed on 2020-04-10.



Lai, A. C. K. et al. (2012) "Effectiveness of facemasks to reduce exposure hazards for airborne infections among general populations", J. R. Soc. Interface (http://doi.org/10.1098/rsif.2011.0537). 9938-948



Leung, N.H.L. et al. (2020) "Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks", Nature Medicine (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-020-0843-2) (2020).



Lowen, A. C. et al. (2007) "Influenza Virus Transmission Is Dependent on Relative Humidity and Temperature", PLoS Pathog (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.ppat.0030151) 3(10): e151.



Paules, C. and Subbarao, S. (2017) "Influenza", Lancet (http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(17)30129-0), Seminar| Volume 390, ISSUE 10095, P697-708, August 12, 2017.



Sande, van der, M. et al. (2008) "Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population", PLoS ONE (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0002618) 3(7): e2618. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0002618 Shaman, J. et al. (2010) "Absolute Humidity and the Seasonal Onset of Influenza in the Continental United States", PLoS Biol 8(2): e1000316. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pbio.1000316



Tracht, S. M. et al. (2010) "Mathematical Modeling of the Effectiveness of Facemasks in Reducing the Spread of Novel Influenza A (H1N1)", PLoS ONE (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0009018) 5(2): e9018. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0009018



Viboud C. et al. (2010) "Preliminary Estimates of Mortality and Years of Life Lost Associated with the 2009 A/H1N1 Pandemic in the US and Comparison with Past Influenza Seasons", PLoS Curr (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2843747/). 2010; 2:RRN1153. Published 2010 Mar 20. doi:10.1371/currents.rrn1153



Wada, K. et al. (2012) "Wearing face masks in public during the influenza season may reflect other positive hygiene practices in Japan", BMC Public Health (https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2458-12-1065) 12, 1065 (2012).



Yang, W. et al. (2011) "Concentrations and size distributions of airborne influenza A viruses measured indoors at a health centre, a day-care centre and on aeroplanes", Journal of the Royal Society (https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2010.0686), Interface. 2011 Aug;8(61):1176-1184. DOI: 10.1098/rsif.2010.0686.



Yezli, S., Otter, J.A. (2011) "Minimum Infective Dose of the Major Human Respiratory and Enteric Viruses Transmitted Through Food and the Environment", Food Environ Virol (https://doi.org/10.1007/s12560-011-9056-7) 3, 1-30.



Zwart, M. P. et al. (2009) "An experimental test of the independent action hypothesis in virus-insect pathosystems", Proc. R. Soc. B. (http://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2009.0064) 2762233-2242
About the author
Dr. Dennis Rancourt is Ph.D from University of Toronto (1984), and is a former professor of physics at the University of Ottawa.[/QUOTE


Thank you for this amazing article which proves what many knew intuitively and scientifically.

In a sane world this would end the debate..

I have made copies to present to my work collegues.. Now can we send this to Fauci, POTUS and all state Governors :)….

Blessings

Luke

Mods I am not sure why the article is not in normal format

[Luke Holiday]

Mikovitz is wrong.

Judy is very qualified to make her statements which are backed by science … What exactly do feel she is wrong about and why?

See above posts. Not going to rehash. Mikovits appears to be correct on some aspects of this virus, but is completely wrong on masks. Again, look to the countries who have fared the best and watch Chris Martenson's videos. Get out of the alt right bubble. Bad enough being stuck at home, you don't want to be stuck in an information echi chamber at the same time.

…. weak....

[Luke Holiday]

Here is another strong article off of David ickes site with several references:

https://www.davidicke.com/article/570785/unmasking-truth-studies-show-dehumanizing-masks-weaken-dont-protect

[RunningDeer]

Here is another strong article off of David ickes site with several references:

https://www.davidicke.com/article/570785/unmasking-truth-studies-show-dehumanizing-masks-weaken-dont-protect


Unmasking the Truth: Studies Show Dehumanizing Masks
Weaken You and Don’t Protect You

MAKIA FREEMAN
May 22, 2020


https://i.imgur.com/TTXVstV.jpg



Dehumanizing masks

…have sadly become a part of the new normal in many states and nations around the world. Many local and state governments are forcing people to wear them, and many businesses are dutifully toeing the official line and refusing entry to customers who don't wear them. Apart from the obvious truth that widespread mask usage has a deliberately dehumanizing effect (in line with the transhumanist synthetic agenda), many scientific studies show that masks serve no useful medical purpose for healthy people. Masks weaken you by causing hypercapnia (increased carbon dioxide) and hypoxia (decreased oxygen). They are designed for surgeons (so they don't accidentally transmit bodily fluids like saliva into a patient they are operating upon) or for sick people (so they don't infect others via large respiratory droplets). Scientifically speaking, they don't stop healthy people from getting infected! Below is the evidence showing this. This will leave you with the inescapable conclusion that these masks are not about protecting health – but rather about control, dehumanization and the destruction of health.

Masks Lead to Under-Oxygenation, a Forerunner to Fatigue, Weakness and Serious Diseases Like Cancer

It is a commonsense scientific fact that wearing a mask blocks your airways and therefore leads to both hypercapnia (an increase in and accumulation of carbon dioxide in the body from breathing in exhaled air) and hypoxia (a lack of oxygen in the tissues). Symptoms of hypercapnia include dizziness, drowsiness, excessive fatigue, headaches, feeling disoriented, flushing of the skin and shortness of breath. Symptoms of hypoxia include anxiety, restlessness, confusion, changes in the color of skin, cough, rapid breathing, shortness of breath and sweating. Not surprisingly, both conditions are similar, since they are both characterized by a lack of oxygen. In addition, hypoxia has been shown to lead to impaired immunity in general, and to be a forerunner to serious diseases such as atherosclerosis, stroke and heart attack. It is also the necessary precondition for the development of cancer (as I covered in my series on natural cancer cures). Dr. Russell Blaylock highlights how wearing a mask is actually putting you at more risk of infection, because you are lowering your overall health, strength and immunity by under-oxygenation:




“It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries ... A more recent study involving 159 healthcare workers aged 21 to 35 years of age found that 81% developed headaches from wearing a face mask. Some had pre-existing headaches that were precipitated by the masks. All felt like the headaches affected their work performance."

...

“The importance of these findings is that a drop in oxygen levels (hypoxia) is associated with an impairment in immunity. Studies have shown that hypoxia can inhibit the type of main immune cells used to fight viral infections called the CD4+ T-lymphocyte. This occurs because the hypoxia increases the level of a compound called hypoxia inducible factor-1 (HIF-1), which inhibits T-lymphocytes and stimulates a powerful immune inhibitor cell called the Tregs. This sets the stage for contracting any infection, including COVID-19 and making the consequences of that infection much graver. In essence, your mask may very well put you at an increased risk of infections and if so, having a much worse outcome.”



Blaylock also emphasizes how wearing masks is dangerous from a health perspective – it encourages the recycling (rather than the expulsion) of viruses and bacteria, some of which can enter the brain with potentially lethal consequences:




“It gets even more frightening. Newer evidence suggests that in some cases the virus can enter the brain. In most instances it enters the brain by way of the olfactory nerves (smell nerves), which connect directly with the area of the brain dealing with recent memory and memory consolidation. By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain.”



Public Health Agency of Canada Admits "Little Evidence" Masks Protect Healthy People

This document from the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) openly admits there is little evidence that, if you are well or healthy, wearing a mask will somehow protect you. This flies in the face of the propaganda going around that "my mask protects you, your mask protects me" since the only point (if you are not someone like a surgeon) is for already sick people to wear them to block the escape of large respiratory droplets. It is standard medical practice that masks are worn by the infected not the uninfected (as in the case when someone has TB), just as it is standard medical practice that quarantine is for the sick or immuno-compromised not the whole infected community. The definition of quarantine is “a state, period, or place of isolation in which people or animals that have arrived from elsewhere or been exposed to infectious or contagious disease are placed” so, ipso facto, the lockdown of an entire society is not quarantine but outright tyranny. Remember, Operation Coronavirus is not about medical common sense or logic; it's about control. The PHAC document states:




“Little evidence exists as to how effectively the wearing of a mask by well individuals will prevent them from becoming infected ... For masks to be effective, individuals must wear them consistently and correctly; these actions can be challenging. Masks must be worn only once, never shared and always changed when soiled or wet. If not used properly, masks may lead to a greater risk of pandemic influenza transmission because of contamination, or they may make the user overconfident and hence neglectful of other personal protective measures, such as hand hygiene, respiratory etiquette and self-isolation when ill – measures that have been deemed important complementary actions to the use of masks for the reduction of disease transmission. Finally, given that masks cannot be used when eating and drinking and may make communication difficult, wearing them for prolonged periods may be impractical and ineffective.”



Harboring Bacteria and Viruses

The masks many people are wearing – homemade from cloth, bandannas, etc. – are a joke if you think they will stop a virus which is measured in nanometers (nanometer = 10-9 meters, or 0.000000001 meters). They won't stop a virus but they will assuredly become a hotbed for microbes to develop due to the warm and humid conditions. This article quotes some Indian doctors:




“He pointed out that masks are a potential source of bacteria and viruses. “The moisture from exhalation inside the mask, when in constant contact with the 37 degrees Celsius warm human body, becomes ideal place for virus and bacteria to thrive,” he said. "This could result in the growth of microbes on masks and aid the spread of airborne diseases like influenza."

“The N95 or N99 mask varieties have been traditionally used in hospitals to prevent tuberculosis and other infections during flu season,” said Dr KK Aggarwal, president of the Indian Medical Association. “They can block particulate matter only if you completely prevent air-leaks, and that is not possible.” ... Aggarwal said such comfort from wearing a mask “is only psychological” and warned against using masks without doctor’s recommendations."



Only psychological indeed. That's what Operation Coronavirus is: a psychological game of perception management.

Masks Make People "Feel" Safer

We are in the middle of a perception war. In perception, often it is emotion not reason which plays a driving role. At the level of the psychopath setting the agenda, the NWO (New World Order) manipulators cleverly exploit this by demanding governments enforce stupid and ineffectual rules like mandatory mask-wearing. At the level of the idiot carrying out the agenda, local and state governmental officials proclaim everyone must wear a mask, so these low-level officials CYA (cover their asses), pacify the population and make it look they are being decisive by taking action. But it's all a sham, because the masks offer nonprotection as this study The surgical mask is a bad fit for risk reduction states:




I propose that the surgical mask is a symbol that protects from the perception of risk by offering nonprotection to the public while causing behaviours that project risk into the future ... In an annex to the Canadian pandemic influenza preparedness plan covering public health measures, the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) does not recommend the use of masks by well individuals in pandemic situations, acknowledging that the mask has not been shown to be effective in such circumstances ... The same annex on public health measures refers to the “false sense of security” that a mask can psychologically provide, but the converse is the real risk posed to a government unable to mollify its population."



Final Thoughts

Mandatory mask-wearing orders are just another way in which NWO conspirators are testing how far they can push people and seeing how much they can get away with. Just like the unscientific social distancing rules (1 meter, 1.5 meters, 2 meters, 6 feet or something else depending upon where you live), masks are symbolic of this entire fake pandemic operation. It's not about reason or logic; it's about fear and conditioning. They are training you to obey, training you to question whether you are following all the rules for every minute of your existence, training people to snitch on each other, training people to accept isolation and training people to fear each other (just as with the manmade climate change hoax).

Now we can't even see people's face when we interact with them! People of the Earth – WAKE UP!

This is mass conditioning. The degree to which healthy people willingly endorse and obey mask-wearing orders is directly proportional to their level of ignorance and fear. No interventions such as masks or vaccines can come close to the importance of living healthfully and developing your inner terrain (and hence your immune system) so that you are less susceptible to disease. It's time to 'unmask' the truth and use this crisis to educate ourselves and others about the true nature of viruses, the immune system, health and disease.

See article for Makia Freeman bio, sources and hyperlinks.

[TomKat]

Robert Morningstar speculates that normalizing face masks could allow Antifa mobs to anonymously interfere with the 2020 US elections. And of course, the Hong Kong protesters would be similarly empowered, should that start up again -- a nice Covid backfire for China :-)

[norman]

https://i.vgy.me/SniWPg.jpg

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

It is telling that masks have become such a strong symbol of compliance and submission. I notice that the type of facial covering (at least here in Oregon) varies from the hard-core, perfectly fitted mask with a filter, to the cavalier bandana waving in the breeze. We have had 147 deaths here, nearly all of them of the elderly in nursing homes. It is especially puzzling to me to watch people walking all alone in the rain, on totally deserted streets, wearing a mask.

[Pigtail Gurl]

I have to put one on in Spain to go shopping. I try not to walk wearing one as got sick from it. ;(

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I was thinking of making one from an old fishnet stocking ;O

[Ratszinger]

Where's my chainsaw!? I found my old hunting mask! Just in time for contagion season!!

[RunningDeer]

Alternatives ...

Bumper Tables
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1262377453273702403

Pac-Man Dine Out Mask
https://twitter.com/NBCDFW/status/1262566379343003652

Social distancing in San Francisco Park

https://i.imgur.com/s85YWIl.jpg

Burger King debuts 'social-distance crowns' in Germany

https://i.imgur.com/Gi5sZbH.jpg

[RunningDeer]

I have to put one on in Spain to go shopping. I try not to walk wearing one as got sick from it. ;(

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I was thinking of making one from an old fishnet stocking ;O

Nice to see you, Pigtail Gurl. Hola Wizard https://i.imgur.com/iWmwe53.gif

I use a DIY bandana to grocery shop. (vid below) A few days ago, I only put it over my mouth so I could breathe better. That's when I noticed a couple of others did the same. One was an employee.

A few weeks back, there were three employees stocking the shelves in the same aisle. They're masks dangled around their necks. When they saw me round the corner, they quickly pulled them up. I pretended not to see them.



DIY No Sew Face Mask Easy and Quick for Anyone (1:38 minutes)
1r2C1zGUHbU

[Bill Ryan]

I posted a month ago (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110697-A-World-Pushing-Back-Against-CV19-Lockdown-The-Protests-The-Revolts-The-Non-Compliance&p=1352482&viewfull=1#post1352482) that in Ecuador, masks are mandatory. So there are no personal decisions to be made, if one wants to enter any store. But today, things went from 'red' to 'yellow', and that was just SO great to see.

90% of the stores were open, and all the malls. The streets were crowded, and the only thing that wasn't quite normal again, despite the ubiquitous masks, was no buses — yet, but there will be soon: one person per double seat. Buses are vitally important for all the people here.

I believe there are some restrictions on some restaurants. And the overnight curfew has been rolled back from starting at 2pm to starting at 9pm. That makes a big difference, all on its own.

But what hit me was this. It was just so heartening to see people working again, selling things again, buying things again.

That's critically important, more so than anything else right now. Against that, discussions about masks are comparatively trivial.

Ecuador dropped the ball in Guayaquil for a couple weeks, with the whole world watching. For a short while, things were truly awful there. But apart from that period of local chaos, things have been orderly, quiet, well-organized, and the government has been hell-bent on re-opening the country in a reasonable way now that hospitals aren't overwhelmed any more. And there have been no shortages of anything at all.

After all, that was the stated purpose of all the lockdowns in every country. Just to flatten the curve.

No-one in Ecuador is talking about a vaccine. Just about getting the fatalities and ICU cases down — real numbers or not. Those stats drive the decisions. At least, here they do.

So America, take note. Get the people back to work. Masks or not, it doesn't matter all that much.

It's starting to look like the US may be one of the last first world countries to fully open up again. If wearing masks helps a return to normality (the original normal, not the "new" one!), that that has to be tolerable. Societies all over the world HAVE to return to regular business, or there'll be the biggest catastrophe in the last 100 years.

There's absolutely NO logical reason that I'm aware of why almost every country can't be doing the same thing right now as Ecuador.
:happy dog:

If they're not, then something else is driving the decisions.

[Ben]

The drive to scare people into wearing masks, is, in my opinion, a furthering of causing us to be scared of each other, and thus preventing empathic evolution.


Christ, they've even got masses of people scared of their own bodies.



FFS!

[AutumnW]

The very best epidemiologists are saying that a vaccine for an rna coronavirus may be impossible. I appreciate those who admit they are speculating, and use a lot a of qualifiers when it comes to this subject. Those who are completely certain, at this point, are nailing down conjecture and making it fact, prematurely.

As there is so much we don't know at this point, it is best to act cautiously and mask up and avoid crowds, if you can. If you HAVE to work because your government is unable to help you out at this time, it's different. Just do your best and mask up with the best mask you can find and try to social distance.

[norman]

Maybe masking up is delaying herd immunity long enough for us to still be scared when the 'vaccine' shows up.


We don't need a vaccine, we need to get on with living, and a health care service that's sharp enough to spot the vulnerable and take proper care of them.

[AutumnW]

Norman,

You started out strong there, by starting your sentence with, 'maybe.' Your next sentence is prematurely certain. If you had started that with "perhaps" or "maybe" who could argue with you? Not me. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You simply aren't entitled to facts that have not been established.

[norman]

Opinion, was the stardard set by yourself. I offered mine.

[AutumnW]

Opinion, was the stardard set by yourself. I offered mine.

Please clarify opinions with qualifiers. 'imo' works. It enhances dialogue back and forth. IMO, qualifying statements soften hard edges and lead to better all around understanding. People are less likely to demonize and develop a fundamentalist mind set.

New paragraphs are best started with qualifying words as well, imho.

[TomKat]

Opinion, was the stardard set by yourself. I offered mine.

Please clarify opinions with qualifiers. 'imo' works. It enhances dialogue back and forth. IMO, qualifying statements soften hard edges and lead to better all around understanding. People are less likely to demonize and develop a fundamentalist mind set.

New paragraphs are best started with qualifying words as well, imho.

We don't need a vaccine.

[Loren]

I wear one to put other people at ease , grocery store... but I don't agree with them or anything else we are suppose to do. If I had the flu I'd stay home and away from elderly and people with respiratory problems like any other virus. By now everyone has it whether it shows up or not . Covic 19 has cured all diseases , everyone that dies is because of it now. https://londonreal.tv/dr-rashid-buttar-hosts-a-doctors-covid-19-roundtable-1000-voices-strong/

[DaveToo]

I wear one to put other people at ease , grocery store... but I don't agree with them or anything else we are suppose to do. If I had the flu I'd stay home and away from elderly and people with respiratory problems like any other virus. By now everyone has it whether it shows up or not . Covic 19 has cured all diseases , everyone that dies is because of it now.

That is brilliant Loren!
Who can deny it?

[AutumnW]

Opinion, was the stardard set by yourself. I offered mine.

Please clarify opinions with qualifiers. 'imo' works. It enhances dialogue back and forth. IMO, qualifying statements soften hard edges and lead to better all around understanding. People are less likely to demonize and develop a fundamentalist mind set.

New paragraphs are best started with qualifying words as well, imho.

We don't need a vaccine.

Maybe you are correct. Whether one is needed or not, it may be impossible to develop one that works.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I wear one to put other people at ease , grocery store... but I don't agree with them or anything else we are suppose to do. If I had the flu I'd stay home and away from elderly and people with respiratory problems like any other virus. By now everyone has it whether it shows up or not . Covic 19 has cured all diseases , everyone that dies is because of it now. https://londonreal.tv/dr-rashid-buttar-hosts-a-doctors-covid-19-roundtable-1000-voices-strong/

Maybe we have all been exposed. How can anyone claim that we have been with complete certainty? To me this is a red flag for someone who is speaking from an ideological base, not a purely scientific one.