Victory Day

[Mashika]

Hi, i had written a big opening post about V day but decided to throw it away entirely, because of following reasons:

Today i was reading stuff on the web, and since i have been using mostly American news sites, social media and forums, i got to see something i didn't realized way before. And i just could not help but to throw any good feelings away, at least for today, i see comments such as:

- Yeah Russia did lose a lot of people on ww2, but Stalin killed most of them!
- If it wasn't for the US, the USSR and the world would have lost the war
- Thanks for the atomic bombs we won the world, time to celebrate!
- A picture of the moment Japans surrendered to the US, saying "This is the day we freed the world from facism, blah blah blah!"
- A picture of American soldiers and American tanks and plenty other things and then one single picture of a Russian tank with no comment at all LMFAO!
- Someone saying "we freed the world before, we should do it again with China and Russia"
- Someone posted a picture of the Statue of Liberty and said "Your welcome world"

Well anyone who actually knows history will understand, i guess. And why it's only 'some' countries that have people posting such stupid ignorant things?

I'm very proud of the real history, and as every single year since i can remember and became aware, i will honor my grand father and his friends, who actually died along with million more to actually win the war. This ridiculous reinterpretation of history and the ignorance of some people will not stop me from feeling respect and honor for the real heroes, from whatever country they were born from

If the Americans who fought and wong along side Russia and the UK and everyone else were alive today, they would probably get red faced in anger at the stupidity of current American education about the real history. It makes a diservice to them, because they had honor, and what happened to that? No chivarly at all left in the current US culture and people?

Blyat indeed. I'm out :cocktail:

/rant

[Mashika]

Oh and another thing that i found ridiculous last year was this

On the celebration of auschwitz liberation, i saw posts on imgur and other places, talking about how the US had liberated other concentration camps, and how much pain it caused and such, but no word about auschwitz and who freed that one camp. Instead, on the day that is supposed to give honor and pay respect to the victims of that hell, people posted about how the US had liberated other camps and how much good they were and such.

I don't even know what to say anymore

[Baby Steps]

The easiest way to evaluate who did the heavy lifting to beat Nazi Germany in 1943-1945 is to simply look at how much German effort went in to fight each of the main combatants. Even after D Day approximately 75% of Axis land resources went to the eastern front.

If you throw in the air war, maybe settle for 2/3 against Russia, and 1/3 against the Western allies. Of that 1/3, it was roughly half USA and half Uk(and allies).

The primary reason that the USA got involved in the European theatre was that if they had not, the UK could not have done D Day on its own, and therefore most of Europe would have fallen into Soviet hands.

[Mashika]

The easiest way to evaluate who did the heavy lifting to beat Nazi Germany in 1943-1945 is to simply look at how much German effort went in to fight each of the main combatants. Even after D Day approximately 75% of Axis land resources went to the eastern front.

If you throw in the air war, maybe settle for 2/3 against Russia, and 1/3 against thr Western allies. Of that 1/3, it was roughly half USA and half Uk(and allies).

The primary reason that the USA got involved in the European theatre was that if they had not, the UK could not have done D Day on its own, and therefore most of Europe would have fallen into Soviet hands.

The way i learned history is that mostly the UK/Russia won the war, and the US was just sitting around watching the dead count number grow high, it was only after they were attacked they got into it. And i even know that Mexico faked an attack on one/couple of their oil ships by German subs so they would have an excuse to enter the war and then provide oil and iron+ all other resources the US needed to get into the war, that was fake and some people died to achieve that

But history is so convoluted in America's side it's impossible to talk facts anymore

The USA got involved because of their political and power grabbing issues, mostly as you said, and then they faked it till they believed it all. The US did not care for all the people but their own, same as other countries, they only talked about it after the fact as if they did really care, but it was just a power grab taking advance of the weak moments of the UK/Russia after they were completely spent and wasted winning the war

And NATO is a ridiculous thing, Russia asked to join and was refused, but Germany is around LMFAO! NATO was built to provide a way for the US to gain time if Russia would decide to take over. All countries in NATO are cannon fodder for the US, and that's the truth LOL. That they refuse to see it as it is doesn't matter at all, NATO is just a buffer so Russia/China gets spent going through those countries while the US prepares to win, same as it happened back in WW2 with the US just watching the war go on until they saw who was going to win/lose then they acted finally.

And let's not talk about how "America" is also the name of the entire continent and not just the US, that's something i found so odd, but i already had that argument before and it went into me basically picking up some guy from his pants and landing him face down on the street's trash container..... I'm not that person anymore by the way, i'm cool now :bearhug:

[Baby Steps]

Having said that, it is worth remembering how many resources poured from UK, USA, Canada to the Soviet Union, and we are all grateful.

Speaking as a Western Euopean, I am very grateful that the USA chose to help Europe, life in western europe was generally better than Soviet eastern europe. The USA poured resources into reconstructing and stabilising western europe, this may have been enlightened self interest but still great.

We see german social democracy as a great example for the whole world, and USA & UK played a large part in that.

Could the war have been avoided? In many ways. More active and aggressive containment of Hitler in 1938 might have done it.

Was the Pacific war necessary? No, Japans hand was forced by the oil embargo, and it is likely that the USA had foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbour attack , as they moved their carriers away, and left an array of WW1 old battleships to make a great sacrificial show.

The elite/banking interests cemented control, huge debt accrued in war production, USA technological dominance established, the atom unleashed, The dollar dominant, and a sufficiently scary (soviet) adversary created.

The whole thing worked out well for the elite covert agenda.

[Mashika]

Having said that, it is worth remembering how many resources poured from UK, USA, Canada to the Soviet Union, and we are all grateful.

Speaking as a Western Euopean, I am very grateful that the USA chose to help Europe, life in western europe was generally better than Soviet eastern europe. The USA poured resources into reconstructing and stabilising western europe, this may have been enlightened self interest but still great.

We see german social democracy as a great example for the whole world, and USA & UK played a large part in that.

Could the war have been avoided? In many ways. More active and aggressive containment of Hitler in 1938 might have done it.

Was the Pacific war necessary? No, Japans hand was forced by the oil embargo, and it is likely that the USA had foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbour attack , as they moved their carriers away, and left an array of WW1 old battleships to make a great sacrificial show.

The elite/banking interests cemented control, huge debt accrued in war production, USA technological dominance established, the atom unleashed, The dollar dominant, and a sufficiently scary (soviet) adversary created.

The whole thing worked out well for the elite covert agenda.



Speaking as a Western Euopean, I am very grateful that the USA chose to help Europe, life in western europe was generally better than Soviet eastern europe.

Could have been better if the US had not proved it wanted to be the "enemy" and push everyone against Russia, imagine the gigantic amount of resources and intel required to keep things going forward safetly, what if no one had become "the enemy" so you would not had to spend yourself out and go all freak control in an attempt to keep things alive? The way you say it is just the US version of it

Think about why the US rejected Russia from NATO after the application to be a member was sent, it could have solved tons of issues, but no sir, we need to be enemies, NATO was created as an excuse to run away from you. Let's not ignore that part if history because it was very real. If you have a friend who tells you to f*k off, would you still act normally when you see it around, or what would you do if you see your ex-friend constantly around/outside your house, after he told you he didn't like you at all?



We see german social democracy as a great example for the whole world, and USA & UK played a large part in that.

However that's just all not really true as it is talked about, take US for example, "democracy"? or a Republic, they talk a lot about "democracy" but show very little of it. We could go into why a "democratic" country like Germany goes and supports terrorists in other country to remove the elected government because another country wishes so due to personal interests. Is that a way of democracy? Or pure hipocrisy?

If there wasn't that 'butt hurtting like' thing going on, it could be just like this with the US, but they don't want to!! Why are US people always figthing to be "the best" but not in real life but only through words and just that?

DvhFtOoXmY0

We know now that the bombs were dropped despite the war being already won, and there was no need, it was mass murder with the intent to position themselves as the greatest world power, that's all

If you want to know a couple interesting things, look into where the atomic bomb research material that Mexico gave away went to, look into that if you are interested xi xi, it's in the middle east by the way. And second look into where the arms and bombs that ex-soviet countries had after the split went into, where are the bombs? Have you heard about were they went?

On that video, that's Kalinka and Cielito lindo, i was going to open another thread because i learned something very funny about how the US stopped Mexico from buying Mig jets a few years ago but i think i rather not, it got tiredsome and i don't think anyone cares anymore

Mexico and Russia are very very similar in culture, and in relationship very strong as well, but the US has interfered badly in the past, avoiding things like buying planes and other aspects of the international relationship. I may post about it later on, but today i got so frustrated i decided it was too wasteful for me to spend time on that thing :handshake:

[Baby Steps]

Some Ukranian bombs may have ended up with Iran (i have two sources)

Its so great to get a more Russian perspective!!

The industry of 'enemy manufacture' is a key component of the process of control. It justifies tyranny. Fear used. The real war is the 1% against the 99%.

[Sunny-side-up]

This sort of thing started way, way back with the 'Holy crusades' and King Richard the Lion heart.
He/they freed all the captives and then slaughtered them because he could't look after them while he wen't on with his real reasons for being out there o.0

As a young kid he was an hero, because of false history feed to me at school and Hollywood films.

[Sunny-side-up]

Its also like the American hero 'G Ford' of the motorcar fame, he was given medals for his war time production efforts, while most did not know he was mass supplying the German 'Luftwaffe' with aeroplane engines o.0

[Tintin]

Here's an interesting related article:

Source: https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-embassy-falsely-claims-us-not-soviet-union-liberated-auschwitz/264527/



"The incorrect statement was immediately met with scorn online from those who felt this was another example of Soviet erasure and an insult to the enormous sacrifice the U.S.S.R. made to defeat fascism in Europe. Users replied with pictures of Red Army troops liberating the camp. Those same people would likely be unimpressed at the news that Wikipedia has been removing those same pictures (https://www.stalkerzone.org/wikipedia-started-removing-photos-of-the-liberation-of-auschwitz-by-the-red-army/), a fact discovered by Lithuanian journalist Vladimir Vodo. While the encyclopedia’s administrators argued that they might not technically be in the public domain, erasing images of the Russian liberation of Auschwitz on Holocaust Memorial Day is not an optically wise move.

The Soviet Union is responsible for killing about four of every five Nazis during the conflict and suffered around 95 percent of all Allied Army casualties. The scale of their loss was enormous; the current Russian government estimates the Soviet losses at 26.6 million dead – around sixty-three times the total American sacrifice in both Europe and the Pacific. Even comparatively tiny states like Latvia and Lithuania lost a similar number of people as the entire United States."

And from this article, here (https://www.mintpressnews.com/victory-in-europe-day-these-american-corporations-aided-nazi-germany/267345/) concerning VE Day:



"While many corporations are keen for the day to be over, other groups want the public to remember their particular version of events. The U.K. Foreign Office, for example, released a video where Russia’s role in bringing about the end of the war was barely to be seen. NATO’s Joint Force Commander in Naples, Admiral James Foggo, also described the brave Allied forces engaged in combat in North Africa, Normandy and Italy, but appeared to make a point of not mentioning any of the far larger battles that raged on the Eastern Front, between Soviet and Axis forces. Meanwhile, NATO-linked think tank the Atlantic Council used the occasion to accuse Putin of hijacking V-E Day to push Russian aggression in Eastern Europe.

The Soviet Union comprised 80 percent of German casualties, with the current Russian government estimating their own total losses at 26.6 million people.

In contrast, the U.S. did not enter the European area in any serious numbers until well after the tide had been turned, the Soviets driving Axis forces back hundreds of miles out of Russia and Ukraine by 1944. However, decades of propaganda have got people to forget these inconvenient facts; by 2015, only 11 percent of Americans and 15 percent of Britons answered the U.S.S.R. when asked which country contributed most to the defeat of Hitler."

Outside of the brainwashed and manipulative education systems we've grown up with, and the relentless drumbeat of that propaganda, those of us who have studied more reliable sources to the true history of these events have drawn the conclusion, self evident from those studies, as to who the real victors were, and the prevailing ideology.

[EFO]

It was only about the money and having an escape goat and for these reasons million of people should be sacrificed as always before them and even now in some places around the globe. So,two words:money and sacrifice...how many of us sacrificed something to pay bank loans/credits/leasing?

Every payed bank rate means winning a battle until the final WAR VICTORY.

https://www.phactual.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/coca-cola-nazi.jpg

8 American Companies That Worked with the Nazis During World War II (https://www.phactual.com/8-american-companies-that-worked-with-the-nazis-during-world-war-ii/)

Devil’s Bargain: Germany and Russia Before WWII (https://www.historynet.com/devils-bargain-germany-and-russia-before-wwii.htm)

[Sunny-side-up]

Thanks for your above post EFO
I have known those facts and forgotten many, many more :(

From my lowly, loving common human being point of view, the world is disgusting or rather those relative few running it.
Utterly disgusting sociopaths/psychopaths power hungry greedy bastards.

Unfortunately as long as any of them are in place the world will remain backward and in pain.

(I realise not all sociopaths/psychopaths are to blame, some actually do good in this world)

[Justplain]

The USSR suffered horrendous losses in WW2. I know that almost every Russian family lost most of their adult men in that conflict. The tide turned in that conflict with three major events:

a) the Germans were on the outskirts of Moscow and Stalin was about to move the government east of the Urals, the Stalin got inspired to re-open Russian churches. The German advance was halted.

b) the big tank battles in the Ukraine got bogged down in the mud and the Soviets produced some huge victories, with tens of thousands of prisoners taken.

c) Another major event in the war was the victory by Britain over the luftwaffe.

I believe most of this happened in 1941, the year the USA joined the battle. You see the banksters were holding up congressional approval (people like Prescott Bush who was a Nazi funder) so the rumor has Roosevelt let pearl harbor happen to force public support. Even then, Germany declared war on the usa, not vice versa.

Another thing to remember that without a second front in Europe, would the outcome have been the same?

Also, remember what destroyed most of Germany's and Japan's industrial strength, those flying fortresses, the b-17s and B-29s All surface industry was annihilated making the axis war machine unresourced.

Yes, the Soviets paid a terrible price in that conflict, but the American contribution was essential.

[Mashika]

It was only about the money and having an escape goat and for these reasons million of people should be sacrificed as always before them and even now in some places around the globe. So,two words:money and sacrifice...how many of us sacrificed something to pay bank loans/credits/leasing?

Every payed bank rate means winning a battle until the final WAR VICTORY.

https://www.phactual.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/coca-cola-nazi.jpg

8 American Companies That Worked with the Nazis During World War II (https://www.phactual.com/8-american-companies-that-worked-with-the-nazis-during-world-war-ii/)

Devil’s Bargain: Germany and Russia Before WWII (https://www.historynet.com/devils-bargain-germany-and-russia-before-wwii.htm)

Another thing i've seen a lot mentioned lately is the "non aggression pact" between Russia and Germany right before the war started, but no mention of the context in which it happened. Here's a less biased look at the events, which also includes the real context in which all that stuff happened

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html

[Brigantia]

Let's not forget Stalingrad too, despite massive bombardment the attack was defeated. If I remember correctly, had the attack had succeeded, it would have given the Germans access to the oil fields.

[Mashika]

The USSR suffered horrendous losses in WW2. I know that almost every Russian family lost most of their adult men in that conflict. The tide turned in that conflict with three major events:

a) the Germans were on the outskirts of Moscow and Stalin was about to move the government east of the Urals, the Stalin got inspired to re-open Russian churches. The German advance was halted.

b) the big tank battles in the Ukraine got bogged down in the mud and the Soviets produced some huge victories, with tens of thousands of prisoners taken.

c) Another major event in the war was the victory by Britain over the luftwaffe.

I believe most of this happened in 1941, the year the USA joined the battle. You see the banksters were holding up congressional approval (people like Prescott Bush who was a Nazi funder) so the rumor has Roosevelt let pearl harbor happen to force public support.




Even then, Germany declared war on the usa, not vice versa.

It was Japan, not Germany who attacked Pearl Harbor, and as it has been proven by history, there were certain events that lead to think it was allowed to happen

You can't also ignore the fact that Mexico confiscated an Italian ship, then turned it into a Mexican ship which was conveniently sinked as soon as it was needed for Mexico to join the war, so that there would be an excuse to send all the minerals, oil and other resources the US needed, including tons and tons of people to take care of growing the food while the US laber force was away

https://www.history.com/news/mexico-world-war-ii-surprising-involvement



Then came Japan’s surprise attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, which brought the war to the Western Hemisphere for the first time. Mexico cut diplomatic ties with Japan on December 9, 1941; it broke with Germany and Italy by December 11. In January 1942, at the Conference of Foreign Ministers held in Rio Janeiro, Brazil, Mexico’s delegation argued forcefully that all the nations of the Western Hemisphere must band together in mutual cooperation and defense.

That May, German U-boats sank two Mexican oil tankers in the Gulf of Mexico. Germany refused to apologize or compensate Mexico, and on June 1, 1942, President Manuel Ávila Camacho issued a formal declaration of war against the Axis Powers. U.S. Secretary of State Cordell Hull celebrated Mexico’s entry into the war on the Allied side as “further evidence that the free nations of the world will never submit to the heel of Axis aggression.”


https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-involvement-in-world-war-two-2136644
https://www.britannica.com/place/Mexico/World-War-II-1941-45

All of that is ignored because "America" but is not that easy, let's see the facts for what they are, facts. And the Fact is that the US takes credit for things other countried did, do you know who else fought the war other than UK/Russia/US?, there were plently more but they get no mention on the big picture, even though they should




Yes, the Soviets paid a terrible price in that conflict, but the American contribution was essential.

Not really no, The US depended on a lot of other countries for the resources that ended up being distributed as "American Help", but truly were the contribution of plenty other countries, just channeled through the US. It just happens that the Americans took the lead in distributing that help, under a single banner, but it wasn't "their help" at all, in fact the only reason the US managed to make it through was because of the help of those "never mentioned" countries that were erased from the records later on

The view of history you talk about, is the same one that claims the US made it through the war all on its own, and that their contribution was a major player in winning the war, but is not that simple, as proven above on the Mexico link

What if Mexico had sided with Germany? The US would have been without those resources and even worse. Ask around if anyone knows about this aspect of the war, i can bet mostly no one will have a clue

[Mashika]

I believe these couple articles may explain better than my third hand english, about what i felt and wanted to say


For many Russians, Victory Day isn’t about politics or patriotism
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/488189-russians-victory-day-personal-memory/




Every year, I see these tweets and wonder if these people realize that Russia lost over 25 million lives in World War II, so, yes it’s still kind-of a big deal. I wonder if they know about the Leningrad Blockade, and all of the children who drove the dead out in sleighs past corpses with carved-out buttocks. I wonder if they know how long it took the country to rebuild, and how many generations continued to suffer from it. And I wonder why everything has to be about Putin all of the time, and why they don’t recognize that these are real people who are still dealing with real pain.

Very odd, really, that a Russian-American got to say exactly this, one day after i posted my thread, it looks like i was dumb to think it was just my personal feeling and perception, this has been going on for way longer than i thought



My mother, who is neither an angry nor a political person, once flew into a hurt rage when she read the chapter in my elementary school textbook on World War II, which she said basically summed up the country’s sacrifices as “and Russia helped a bit.”




“I’m not asking people to like Russia or approve of the government,” my friend, Sveta, 32, who lives in St Petersburg, said. “I’m not even asking people to say the Soviet army was great. I just want the enormous sacrifices that our grandparents made to be acknowledged. And maybe it’s all ‘propaganda,’ but every country has ‘propaganda.’ It doesn’t make my grandfather diving under a Nazi tank to save lives any less true.




27 million reasons why we must remember Victory Day & stand up to attempts at rewriting history
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/488205-victory-day-ww2-soviet-history

[Mashika]

Let's not forget Stalingrad too, despite massive bombardment the attack was defeated. If I remember correctly, had the attack had succeeded, it would have given the Germans access to the oil fields.

Not direclty but yes, eventually going in that direction they would have gained access to oil fields. Legally they had been leased to Germany i think, before the war, so it was a think from Germany like "we own those fields" and that's why they did not attack them in any way, they needed them and they actually had invested into them before. That's as much as i can remember reading about it :) But i know the Germans were trying to regain control of those fields, so they avoided destroying them, which eventually helped in turning things around and against the Germans LMAO

[Mashika]

The USSR suffered horrendous losses in WW2. I know that almost every Russian family lost most of their adult men in that conflict. The tide turned in that conflict with three major events:

a) the Germans were on the outskirts of Moscow and Stalin was about to move the government east of the Urals, the Stalin got inspired to re-open Russian churches. The German advance was halted.

b) the big tank battles in the Ukraine got bogged down in the mud and the Soviets produced some huge victories, with tens of thousands of prisoners taken.

c) Another major event in the war was the victory by Britain over the luftwaffe.

I believe most of this happened in 1941, the year the USA joined the battle. You see the banksters were holding up congressional approval (people like Prescott Bush who was a Nazi funder) so the rumor has Roosevelt let pearl harbor happen to force public support. Even then, Germany declared war on the usa, not vice versa.

Another thing to remember that without a second front in Europe, would the outcome have been the same?

Also, remember what destroyed most of Germany's and Japan's industrial strength, those flying fortresses, the b-17s and B-29s All surface industry was annihilated making the axis war machine unresourced.

Yes, the Soviets paid a terrible price in that conflict, but the American contribution was essential.

Here you go, officially just so you guys don't think about some confusion

United States officially REWROTE history this V-day when it IGNORED Soviet Union's role in defeating Nazism
https://www.rt.com/rtmobile/posts/488315/html?
dark_mode=0&font_scale=0.500000&indent_left=5&indent_right=5&indent_top=5&hide=

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=43565&d=1589127334

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1258842411524132865?s=20



That's beautiful, and pure and honest!!!!

[Justplain]

Hi Masha, I and anyone who is honest about the situation, realize that the victory in WW2 was in large part due to the incredible price the soviet people paid. It is totally unfair, and quite frankly incompetent, for someone assessing the outcome of that conflict not to understand this.

And, yes, not allowing Russia to be atleast an associate member of NATO was also incompetent on NATO's part. This world should be disarming in the post cold war era, but instead the same old war mongers have control of public policy in the USA, China and Russia. Time to grow up folks!

Now, in the name of fairness, and ignoring idiots who don't give credit where credit is due, we need to give the USA credit for its contributions in ww2 as well. I know having grown up in a former British colony, that the situation was very bleak for Britain in 1939 ± 40, especially after Dunkirk. The USA kept supplying Britain during those bleak days with essential war products and food. Britain might not have made it without it.

Then, in the Pacific war against Japan, the USA was fundamentally on its own, and fought that war well against a tenacious opponent.

And as I said in a previous post, the US air power is what finished off both Germany and Japan.

Certainly, if Germany had not attacked the Soviets, Britain likely would have fallen. In that scenario, I can't see that peace would have lasted long betweent Germany and the USSR, and what would have been the outcome?

I think the fair assessment here is that the allies all needed each other to win WW2, and thank God they did work together because I doubt civilization would have survived if they hadn't. Look at what a harm the Project Paperclip Nazis have caused.

So, Masha, please try to forgive the embiciles who ignore the true facts of Victory Day. The truth is we needed everybody on board to win that fight, and thankfully we did.

[AutumnW]

Russia suffered the most and defeated the Germans, in the final analysis. If it hadn't been for their incredible strength, tough mindedness and ability to endure what would have psychologically destroyed many other nations, including Britain, Canada, and other allies, we would all be Nazis now.

Allied countries practice revisionist history in a more thorough way than the Russians.

[shaberon]

And NATO is a ridiculous thing, Russia asked to join and was refused

From what I recall, it was not exactly a refusal...everyone just stared at the Russian blankly, and no one was able to speak.

I still think the whole thing is mostly British.

It would not have been, because Queen Victoria was madly in love with the Tsar, but their parents forbid the marriage.

So you get Swiss-British backed Bolsheviks.

Germany did not exist until 1871, and about as soon as it did, Britain realized it was an economic superpower, and everything has been done to clamp it down and prevent partnership with Russia.

According to Aldous Huxley, WWII was already planned in the 1930s, which basically was to get France to stand down and capitulate. Then the Soviet Union was to be destroyed, or, at least, heavily damaged, at which point Germany would get obliterated from the apparently tame French direction. This was arranged privately between Paris, Berlin, London, and New York. Governments do not stand in their way, but obey. Whole thing is more or less a script. Just for the purpose of making Germany as a whole be "part of the system" instead of an independent power.

I do not personally blame the German nation that much or see them as being much different from other countries, and most of the stuff that is said about it is grossly exaggerated. The one thing we can say that is true is that the central bank was kicked out and they made real German money, which is what rebounded them between wars.

All of our criticisms about central banking mostly stem from Ezra Pound, who was an avowed Fascist, at least along these lines. General Patton said "looks like we fought on the wrong side", and he got run over, twice. That is because he was not very impressed by the Soviets and figured out something about business and finance which Germany, at least, purged.

In terms of purging of dissident human beings, Stalin and Mao are about as high as you can get.

In military terms, the German campaign against the Soviets was basically insane, and seems to have little purpose other than what Huxley described. The prevention of the whole war probably would not have been physical containment of the German military, but, rather, not having machinated against the country ever since it was born.

At any rate, yes, most of the "victory" is due to the Soviets, but only the military surrendered. Nazi command never has.

[Mashika]

Hi Masha, I and anyone who is honest about the situation, realize that the victory in WW2 was in large part due to the incredible price the soviet people paid. It is totally unfair, and quite frankly incompetent, for someone assessing the outcome of that conflict not to understand this.

And, yes, not allowing Russia to be atleast an associate member of NATO was also incompetent on NATO's part. This world should be disarming in the post cold war era, but instead the same old war mongers have control of public policy in the USA, China and Russia. Time to grow up folks!

Now, in the name of fairness, and ignoring idiots who don't give credit where credit is due, we need to give the USA credit for its contributions in ww2 as well. I know having grown up in a former British colony, that the situation was very bleak for Britain in 1939 ± 40, especially after Dunkirk. The USA kept supplying Britain during those bleak days with essential war products and food. Britain might not have made it without it.

Then, in the Pacific war against Japan, the USA was fundamentally on its own, and fought that war well against a tenacious opponent.

And as I said in a previous post, the US air power is what finished off both Germany and Japan.

Certainly, if Germany had not attacked the Soviets, Britain likely would have fallen. In that scenario, I can't see that peace would have lasted long betweent Germany and the USSR, and what would have been the outcome?

I think the fair assessment here is that the allies all needed each other to win WW2, and thank God they did work together because I doubt civilization would have survived if they hadn't. Look at what a harm the Project Paperclip Nazis have caused.

So, Masha, please try to forgive the embiciles who ignore the true facts of Victory Day. The truth is we needed everybody on board to win that fight, and thankfully we did.

All nations involved need to be thanked for it, the US may have been a big part of war against Japan but they did not do it alone, that's what bothers me a bit, to claim "they did it on their on" when actually there were tons of countries providing the resources to achieve success. Without minerals, oil and all other resources, there would have been no planes, or boats, or guns enough to win anything at all, it was channeled through the US but the original contribution came from several other countries

To be fair, all those countries should be named and honored as well

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=43571&d=1589155709

[AutumnW]

The U.S. probably ranks first among nations for murdering dissident persons on its own soil, if there is a competition here.

[shaberon]

The U.S. probably ranks first among nations for murdering dissident persons on its own soil, if there is a competition here.

It is perhaps ironic they have attacked half the countries on that liberty victory poster.

I might say it is first if you get what I mean by Soft Kill, which is the slow spooky side of the "bullet in the head" Hard Kill that took place in the east--otherwise I am not sure what it would be?

Dissent is tolerated because it is pretty much stifled by the lack of any political process.

The Japanese surrender has a lot to do with what we might call Anti-Communism, after General MacArthur and MacArthur II, for which, on the ground, they used Tibet and the China KMT relocated to Taiwan to prevaricate and harass the Chinese, while setting up the Golden Triangle and trying to subvert Vietnam. This is the camp of John Birch Society, American Security Council, Alex Jones, etc., thoroughly propagandized, or more specifically, disinformative.

As to whether that happened, or if the military and CIA like each other, they don't. The CIA has the ability to work with the military and use some of their transport. Anyway from personal testimony from someone who served in the military in Laos, they were out wandering in the wilderness and found a hut. So they checked it out and there was one guy who was about seven feet tall and apparently a cannibal since the hut contained a lot of human remains. There was not much else in it except for one table where he was sitting, which was covered with a pile of heroin about two feet thick. The guy got up aggressively and so of course they killed him but, it was outrageous, they had to shoot him about eighteen times before he quit coming forward.

Heroin is not something a wilderness cannibal usually has, so, he was believed to be an exchange point or something like that. Aside from me believing the incident, it is not enough to take anyone to court, so it doesn't help much.

Agitating Japan by a fuel embargo and allowing it to scuttle a fleet which was all slated for repairs or decommission opened the door for some new connections to be made, at the very least. If MacArthur had his way, he wanted to drop multiple atomic bombs all across the border of the Korean peninsula so the whole connection to China would be nothing but destruction and fallout.

Edit: I bothered to look at whatever embarrassing thing my official said, which is closely based in the Anti-Communist ethics.

Pompeo said in a statement on Saturday: “75 years ago the United States and its allies stood together to rid the world of the Nazis and their hate-based ideology. Today, we face a grave threat to regional peace by another criminal system.”

It colluded with French and German betrayers to beat Germany into submission and then gave the Nazis powerful jobs in its own ranks.

The crime that he speaks of is the replacement of a regime installed by a CIA coup.

“We call again on the international community to join us to stop the largest sponsor of Antisemitism.”

Well, if he said Anti-Zionism, it would be true. The racism he implies is false because the actual Israelis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Jews) have been living in Iran ever since they lost their homeland. In fact they have been completely happy and integrated in that general area.

The Zionist diaspora and return he is favoring are Edomites, which, in the ritual sense of the religion, are no longer Jews. Semitic is not really the right word for any of it, but, we have to go down to his level to interpret it.


Pompeo said that the Americans and the Middle East are in a safer situation after the United States withdrew from the nuclear agreement with Iran two years ago.

If this even means anything, I have yet to find out.

[EFO]

24 June 1945 USSR:
Victory Parade (1945) [Subtitled]
(18:21 min.)
"On 24 June 1945, a scant six weeks following the Fall of Berlin and the end of the Great Patriotic War, residents of the USSR’s capital city were treated to the spoils of victory – a massive military parade.

Organized and undertaken on the direct orders of Stalin himself, the 1945 Victory Parade was (and remains) the largest ever held on Moscow’s Red Square. 40,000 soldiers, sailors, and other service personnel accompanied by 1,850 tanks, artillery pieces, and assorted equipment were mobilized for the occasion. (Alas, overcast skies and steady rain prevented a planned flyover by Red Air Force pilots).

The most memorable moment of the two-hour long procession came as Soviet troops bearing the regimental standards of former Nazi units cast them to the ground in front of Lenin’s Mausoleum – while The Leader and his closest Party comrades gazed down from atop the edifice.

The 1945 Victory Parade was, of course, preserved for posterity. The official version, compressed into less than twenty-minutes, but recorded in color (on film stock seized from German studios) was subsequently distributed throughout the country and, in time, the wider world. A version containing English subtitles accompanied by a terrible voice-over has been available for years on YouTube and across the Interwebs."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hITzVSw6t18

12 January 1946 USA:
U.S. WWII Victory Parade - New York - 1946
(14:15 min.)
"The 1946 New York City Victory Parade, held on January 12, 1946 to celebrate the victorious conclusion of the Second World War. The parade was led by 13,000 men of the 82nd Airborne Division under General James M. Gavin, followed by a detachment of Sherman tanks, jeeps, and self-propelled howitzers, and accompanied by a fly-by of glider towing C-47's. A ticker tape parade that was closely covered by the news, it began at Washington Square and marched up Fifth Avenue, and was reported to be four miles long. Present at the parade were New York Governor Thomas E. Dewey, New York City Mayor William O'Dwyer, and former New York City Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia.

Newsreels:
1. "82nd Division in Victory Parade" [RKO-Pathe] (0:00)
2. "New York Salutes Airborne Division Home From Europe" (3:25)
3. "82nd Invades New York: 5th Avenue Victory Parade Thrills City" [Esso] (5:24)

Marches:
1. "On the Square" by Frank A. Panella (1916) (0:00)
2. "U.S. Field Artillery March" by John Philip Sousa (1917) (3:00)
3. "National Emblem" by Edwin Eugene Bagley (1906) (5:44)
4. "Bravura" by Charles E. Duble (1918) (8:43)
5. "American Legion" by Charles Wesley Parker (1920) (11:39)"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojlKy5Lib4g&t=81s

8 June 1946 UK
Victory Parade - London - 1946
(10:04 min.)
"Movietone is proud to present in two massive processions, mechanised and marching, the men and women whose part in victory made this day possible."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwYuewqW--Y&t=269s