Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

[shaberon]

I found another thing I couldn't remember.

Ladakh gives royal support to a few Kagyu institutions, but, Gelug is more numerous and popular. Therefor it should not be a big surprise if Koothoomi traveled from Ladakh to Tibet, or was in the company of Gelugs--this circuit has been traveled for centuries; Alchi is the oldest continuously-operating Buddhist institution.

At Alchi, there is a famous Six Arm Green Tara; some want to call it Dhanada, although it does not match her.

It was not there, but, at Likhir Monastery, Cultural Heritage of Ladakh (https://books.google.com/books?id=p2obhkp0B90C&lpg=PA133&ots=CUcnAtinqd&dq=sadanga%20tara&pg=PA133#v=onepage&q=sadanga%20tara&f=false) recorded a unique Tara set, made of statues brought from the Indian plain that are said to be the same size, shape, and color. What they use starts almost exactly like the Tibetan Deities book that uses Rinjung Lhantab which we get so many of the standardized color prints from. Their Twenty-one Taras are:

1. White Tara of Atisha
2. White Tara of Bari
3. White Tara of Nyan
4. White Tara of Vanaratna
5. White Sarasvati
6. Sadanga Tara of Nyan
7. Kadam Lha jo nam gi drolma
8. Green Tara of Sakya Sri
9. Green Tara Syama
10. Sakya Red Tara
11. Dhanada
12. Yellow Tara, grol ser mo, tso khor sum
13. Pavicatmike Tara
14. Pratisara
15. Marici
16. White Tara of Sakya Sri
17. Varada Tara
18. Khadira
19. San's Kusunita Tara
20. Dukha sadhana Tara
21. Sukha Sadhana Tara

Well, why would you use four almost identical ones at the start? I am not sure.

They do however have two of Nyan's Taras. Sadanga is Six Limb Yoga; this Tara is a basic Green Tara who adds a dharani, and draws Venerable Tara from Potalaka. So it perhaps is similar to "Mahattari plus someone" in a single sadhana. She does not teach Six Limb Yoga, but, implies it would be used to do this, just like Sapta Vidha Anuttara Puja means you learn it from something else.

It is a mix of older Indian Taras such as Dhanada with Tibetan ones who perhaps are just names slapped on Indian statues.

It does not even pretend that Atisha or Suryagupta gave "The Twenty-one Taras" and it resembles nothing.

So again, I simply ask a few things like, if a verse says she has Amitabha in her hair, why would this not be Day--Night Tara, the only one who does? The one Green Tara who actually is in Lotus Family?

If the first is usually Pravira, who is not in Sadganamala, but a large red form resembling Pitheshvari, who sets most of the important tantric definitions, why not have Pitheshvari first?

Obviously it is ok to use obscure ones like Dhanada and Khadira.

There is a Nyingma set which, like at Likhir, does not really have a name, and comes closer to the way we see it from the view of Indian Taras, but I am not sure I can find it again.

As I see them, there is not enough difference in Amoghasiddhi Green Taras to split Khadira from Varada from Dhanada, or to split up almost the same White Tara. If they are close, then they are kind of the same verse, like Sarasvati and Cunda can be alternates in the same spot. But then Usnisa Vijaya and Parasol are usually considered different, and separated.

For a verse that vaguely refers to a form, such as Humkara, then we have an important deity Amaravajra who displays it. So the song can just as well do its own Dharmachakra teaching moment by helping to map the whole system, rather than being its own disjointed affair.

Now if you have some luck with Amoghasiddhi Green Tara, then, the initiatic Suryagupta system would work, because it is a mandala practice that leads to Reversed Green Tara. Aside from that, Tara's is the most reliable Pure Land, filled with yoginis doing Tara's song in Sanskrit along with expert musical lines. That is to say, Tara's Acacia Grove or Forest of Turquoise Leaves is the fastest attainment in terms of either ego dissolution or entering the Akanistha.

That is why in the rings of goddess symbolism, there are multiple Lamps, and why it is notable to have a standard set of Offerings, and a second set of Five ending with food.

Seven Limb practice may be in conjunction with seven visible offerings. The eighth is music or sound, which does not have an item or offering bowl, since it would be produced by a person. And so in inner Yoga, this process is repeated with another lamp which brings heat to the Skullcups for boiling Nectar.

If this continues, which is Suksma Yoga, then, if the second set of five offerings are like Five Dissolutions, then if we think of Turquoise Lamp as a stable coalescence of Khadyota or "Fireflies", then we are finally set at the Food Offering--Sky Element cusp, which in Vajrayogini terms, is like the end of Dakini Jala, and here it will only become the teachings relevant to the Three Subtle Minds and the Three Voids.

What this is saying is there is Dhuma or Smoke, something perhaps wavy or vibrant, which in Yogacara terms refers to Prana, and then Marici. Here it means "mirage" but it is Water into Fire, and then Fire into Air is sparks, comets, meteors, or "Fireflies", and these experiences typically cause a being to believe that its body is burning, or other hallucinations, and so terror and pain follow. This is what we attempt to overcome by cleansing the Bardo consciousness and so forth. And then you can still get the cold, creepy death feeling if there is not Bliss.

If you "lose solidity" then you are in Dhuma, repealing the Earth Element. This maybe is not too hard to start working with. The ensuing parts are another story that is very difficult to navigate. Victory Banner is Ratnolka--Dhvajagrakeyura--Meteor Face, which is an invulnerable Armor that Indra got from Buddha, which is an equal need to Parasol, as top level items before the tantric Sun and Moon. It is something like if this protection gets these fireflies to quit harassing you, then you are taking Sitabani and Cool Forest and Turquoise Lamp to try and settle into a purified, peaceful, lucid condition. You have to manifest this in what will become Empty Sky or Bare Space until the White Moon arises, first Void.

That is why I think for instance being able to show a samaya bond as done by Mahattari Tara is significant towards what she can actually do.

Many of those Green Taras are just mantricly identical, they do not quite have personal names that they are invoked by. Mostly, they are called Arya Tara, same as used for example in Khasarpana's retinue. This name is also used for Sragdhara, Bhattarika, and Mahacina, who are not identical. It is, however, on Vasyadhikara and Durgottarini, and "is" Dhanada, who "does" Dhanada Krama. Contrariwise, Arya Khadira is Tara; some of these are plain Tara. Mahasri could be described as a name that replaces Arya; she has absorbed Dhanada's mantra and overwritten her title. Durgottarini is a green Mahayogeshvari like Janguli, is a bit more of a dharani, with Ten Directions which are Dhruvam or balanced/aligned. Dhanada has Ten Syllable Nyasa and mandala retinue of Four Family Taras, Four Offerings, and Four Activities. Dhanada looks like the main teaching of Tara/Arya Tara, with Durgottarini adding the finishing touch of the poles or vertical axis. However it also looks like Vasya is significant--if not directly as part of the Krama, then as a shared power to Vajra Tara and Kurukulla.

It is a common word, but there are only a few "specific" Kramas in Sadhanamala: Sadaksari, Maya Jala, Mahacina, Sodasodbhava of Sita Tara, Tara Japa Vidhi of Bhattarika, Svadisthana Krama Marici, Paramartha Krama Prajnaparamita, Hevajra Krama Kurukulla, are the ones that suggest themselves as particular "subjects" like Dhanada Krama.

Mahasri then looks like the "next level" from Dhanada--all her relations combined with perhaps Mahasri Sutra and Mahalakshmi. If this "happens", we would probably say, yes, this is spiritual, not a rote performance. And we see there is a Green Mahalakshmi on a Lion, and, when she becomes an Amoghasiddhi goddess as the first of his Dharanis, she manifests as Ila Devi. Vasumati is the final Northern goddess in the small retinue of Golden Vasudhara 213, as well as the first Dharani, in this Ila Devi form which is identical for all in that sadhana.

Gold Vasudhara x Green Mahalakshmi is something like what is taking place there as a "parallel" for the minor amount of things directly about Mahasri.

[Old Student]

I am not sure? How much is in the Turiya or Fourth State? Is "not ordinary" or "not me" psychological, the non-formation of regular thought and perception?

There are something like three minds of form, and a reversed three subtle minds of the voids.

Okay, I'm not sure how my experiences are fitting in with a lot of these things, I'm pretty much reading through and seeing what feels right, because I have no other way to do it. I am sure about what it feels like in some of the "not me" situations.

In the dissolve, it is so strongly 'there is no me' as to be no self and a destruction -- a melting or dissolve -- of form itself, complete enough that the first dozen or more times it happened I blanked during it because my mind could not handle it. It always, even if only part of me is dissolving (which can happen), begins with a decision point in which I have to consciously give up my existence with no guarantee of it returning.

When I am disembodied, I'm a whole scene or location of things none of which can be called me, so I am rotting mud and a stream with some dead tree branches and there's no me.

The time that Ekajati took me into outer space and erased all my boundaries I was similarly disembodied but there was nothing in the scene, so there's no me and nothing at all corporeal.

When I've managed to be the breeze I'm the breeze. It isn't corporeal, it doesn't think it just feels cool and presses on things and moves or something like that.

Last night I had a very complicated series of events including both a dissolve (later) and apparently setting off the carbon monoxide alarm for two cycles of four beeps.

The answer to what I think is part of your question is no, there is no thought during it. In most of these situations, there is no 'point of consciousness' from which to do so. I read some things about turiya and maybe. It certainly isn't waking thought, dream thought, or deep sleep. Formless applies to the state of mind most of these do not have a context that is devoid of everything.


Vikata or Kusuma were early names for Amoghasiddhi, Mahattari appears important for her mudra of Blossoming Blue Lotus, Khadira and Mahasri both have Akanistha forms which are based in Greenery. Most other Pure Lands are made of jewels.

It is something like they "are not" the Lotus, they are the Activity that expands it.

Since things like this started happening, I've become a whole lot more appreciative of this kind of explanation.

I'm going to quote from my notes from last night, I hope this will be understandable.
Here goes, the dissolve is near the end:


[...]As is usual with this electric kind of bliss, the need for some sort of motion built rapidly, but the events in my body were too encompassing and powerful for my physical body to do much but make ultra-fast motions that moved in some direction or other whenever they were run over by the traveling ends of a spark. Nevertheless, I was building a sort of “move at all costs” “pressure” within my entire body. Mandarava identified as the explosion of this need to move and held. My arms went to several positions and held while she was holding, each one a form of “exultation” or a sort of “joy of victory”. She directed me to, “get things working”, and then gave a push or a press at my chest, which I took to be a reminder of the question there that I had worked on the night before. I tried to bring my attention and listening to bear there, instead I initiated a sequence that was some kind of “backwards Phowa”. A huge bundle of electricity condensed to a purple and powder blue streaked bliss liquid just above my heart, very deep in, and it pushed downward into my abdomen. At my abdomen it heated and became mostly reddish and green and brown and consolidated itself into a narrower stream concentrated deep inside along my centerline and then pushed down into my pelvis. When it hit the bottom my body began shaping itself into the pregnant bandha pose from the bottom up, and motions went out and up my sides, and I finished in pregnant bandha, all full of electricity, black and green as per usual recently and arcing over and glowing with the orangy red sparks.
When this upward movement got to my nipples they erupted in another round of rapid contractions and lightning, once again filling me up. Kurukulla was pushing at the jewel and the sides of my neck felt like transparent leather flapping in the wind. My body went into a protracted lotus-jewel, with an open argument, as there had been once before, between the plane over my palate and the jewel at my throat. I went in and out of lotus jewel, the time spent not in it were spent in Samantabhadri’s dance and everything just a formless mass of arcing sparks. The question had reappeared, it was back in my chest, it looked this time like a very hot fire with a lot of writhing worms – that branched as they had the night before – at the center back of my chest at my heart. My arms and legs flexed into her dance and then went to lotus-jewel and then flexed into her dance, and then sort of gave up on form and started to just shake and dance and move about, because by this time I was nearly totally consumed in sparks and fire. There was another surge upwards into my neck, the jewel lit up and stayed in my listening consciousness, which even though it doesn’t actually have a shape, felt like the jewel was attached to the front underside of it however that might happen, in the same relative position as my throat to my palate. Each surge now went through the jewel and surfaced as another explosion of fluids in my mouth, and they pressed backwards and upwards against the plane and I burst into the top periodically on each wave until I just burst there and was also in there.
I was pressed into the question again and into Samantabhadri’s dance and then into the pushing at the back of my mouth and all the saliva and the arcing. My body was moving continuously, limbs would writhe and then shake and then try to find a position to be in but were only comfortable trying to find it because they were moving. I dissolved, with the question sort of directly in front of me. I regained form and thought briefly I must be the breeze because I was not corporeal. I looked down and was surprised to see I was visible. I had about a second or so to appreciate that I was the tan dancer in shivshakti form and then popped out of it and the dissolve ended. I writhed a few more minutes with sparks, and sent a few feelers out from my side about the breeze, and then realized I would stay as long as I was willing in this condition of being a mass of arcing sparks, and I got up. Sitting up with sparks going on was an interesting feeling.


As you can see, I made it to the tan dancer, but so briefly that I had time only to realize I was there and then pulled back again.

[Old Student]

1. White Tara of Atisha
2. White Tara of Bari
3. White Tara of Nyan
4. White Tara of Vanaratna
[...]
Well, why would you use four almost identical ones at the start? I am not sure.

I looked these "of"s up and it seems like they are four different people who had visions of her. So perhaps somewhere in reading these four's writings the people in Ladakh decided they had seen different things or something. Of course there's also the explanation that they didn't have knowledge of 21 Taras and knew the number should be 21 so they made stuff up.


If you "lose solidity" then you are in Dhuma, repealing the Earth Element.

The truly smoky parts are not many -- the tunnel that goes towards death had smoke in it, the outer space place is ringed with clouds that have the color of smoke. But there's a lot that has no solidity.

In one of your lists is a Jambhavendrasya, who has a dharani. My attempts to try to figure this one out come to maybe somebody who embodies the thunderbolt of Indra? Anything else about her anywhere?

[shaberon]

I looked these "of"s up and it seems like they are four different people who had visions of her. So perhaps somewhere in reading these four's writings the people in Ladakh decided they had seen different things or something. Of course there's also the explanation that they didn't have knowledge of 21 Taras and knew the number should be 21 so they made stuff up.


In one of your lists is a Jambhavendrasya, who has a dharani. My attempts to try to figure this one out come to maybe somebody who embodies the thunderbolt of Indra? Anything else about her anywhere?

Atisha is the founder of Kadam, influential to Gelug.

Bari is a major transmission in Sakya.

Nyan was a contemporary of Bari, who gave his own sadhanas of the Taras, Mahakala, and Red Lion Face Vajrayogini called Ziro Bhusana. If Nyan's Taras are grouped with Varada, Khadira, and Dhanada, then perhaps using Sadhanamala Taras to raise Ziro Bhusana is not so terribly awkward.

The dharani you mentioned refers to a male, Bhagavate Jambhara (Citron). It is almost Jambhala or Vaisravana, but the name in the dharani is Manibhadra:

Māṇibhadra (माणिभद्र) refers to [one of the] eight Yakṣa kings, commonly depicted in Buddhist Iconography, and mentioned in the 11th-century Niṣpannayogāvalī of Mahāpaṇḍita Abhayākara.—The Yakṣas are a semi-mythical class of beings who are supposed to preside over treasures and shower wealth on mankind when propitiated. They are all collectively described in the dharmadhātuvāgīśvara-maṇḍala in one brief sentence:—“The Yakṣa kings [viz., Māṇibhadra] hold in their hands the bījapūra (citron) and the nakula (mongoose) in the right and left hands respectively”.—Māṇibhadra is yellow in colour.

The name at the end of the dharani looks garbled. There are mistakes. For example, the index says "Vaorocani" but this Vairocani one is actually a song:

|| 115 || om namo bhagavatyai āryya śrīvūjavairocanī devyau || davītvameva girijā karmmalā tvameva ṣadamāvatī tvaṁ mamāsitārāṇī devamātā prajñā samūhaḥ balāmṛta pūrṇṇa virajā sahajā svabhāvāḥ | vakratrayāṁta parivārttiyaḥ viśvamātā vidayanprabhāvasvara jñānagamyāḥ tubhyaṁna vajavairocanaṇī devīsvamāyadayadā vichitaṁ siddhidītubhyaṁ namostumamasāva vuṣā girānaḥ || iti śrīvairocaṇī devīstava strotraṁ samāptaṁ

She is Purna (Full) of Viraj and Sahaja, followed by Viswamata and Prabhasvara, which fits.



It sounds to me like you have some amount of non-apperception, formlessness, and bliss. I simply do not understand the physical stuff. I have been mulling over the Push Hands against inner tension, but, anything I do etherealizes me, is more like paralysis. It dissipates all the Vrittis, or Samsara, or Karmic Wind, is very still and slow.

There is such a thing as a waking physical bliss, but, it seems to me, in Sahaja, or the rise of Purified Mercury, it is an experience of altered or Bardo consciousness. The body is forgotten and the mind is not a mind as we usually mean, but, awareness of the Bardo state. That is where you can catch yourself swooning, or blanking, etc., and have to find the way through, towards the Prabhasvara, or i. e. Bardo of the Moment of Death is something we are going to stretch out, slow down, and control. I think that is how you get through the voids of it--"take a closer look".

All of the deities of mind, body, and so on, are the method that supports it. If you can do this Yoga then you can do the Transference leaving your body and entering the Jnana Sattva or Full Enlightenment aspect of a deity.

[shaberon]

Dharmadhtu Vagisvara Manjughosha mandala is really superb for arranging Dharanis with the Bodhisattva Bhumis. It simultaneously inhales almost anything from the astrological system, to groups like the Yaksha kings, and yet has the strangest Gatekeepers who are quite academic.

Dharani Samgraha (http://www.dsbcproject.org/canon-text/content/820/2949) is a Nepalese basket of hundreds of dharanis, which have multiple systems and uses, and so the Manjushri style is by no means exhaustive, although it is unique and highly instructional.

In Buddhism, we have found several Taras who are types of Lakshmi, and that when they arise as the Twelve Dharani goddesses, the first is Vasumati (Vasudhara) Mahalakshmi, to which we have a parallel Mahasri Sutra.

Here is how cryptic and fiendish the whole thing is.

Lakshmi Tantra (https://ia800904.us.archive.org/29/items/LakshmiTantraAPancharatraTextSanjuktaGupta/Lakshmi-Tantra-a-Pancharatra-Text-Sanjukta-Gupta.pdf) was composed around the 9th-12th century. Like Samputa, it is a synthesis of older material, re-worked to highlight the salient points. It is, of course, unique for positioning Devi as the reality to whom the male god is merely an adjunct, while giving her a type of Hindu Catuskoti--"I am Brahman and not-Brahman". It also deals with Union. Tara is easy to find, along with others such as Vistara and Sragdhara which are seed syllables; Mahasri is a mudra; so it shares common names with Sadhanamala.

The tantra is also directly and almost purely occult; it skips Kriya, has little to do with Charya, and does not deal much with architecture, funerals, and other public topics found in many of these.

One of the basic occult ideas is Three Gunas, as taught in Dnyaneshvari, whereas Lakshmi explains the whole twisted evolution of form and describes her transcendent Non-dual Divine Gunas. It is very subtle and profound.

The Dream of Ravan (https://universaltheosophy.com/theosophy/th-works/introduction-to-the-dream-of-ravan/) was written as a series of cliffhangers, which ends with a large amount of quotes from Dnyaneshvari. Many of these became the Voice of the Silence, accepted as a Mahayana Buddhist work by the Panchen Lama, D. T. Suzuki, and others. This appears to be how a Vairagya Paramita got included.

There is a cult of pilgrims called Varkari in the Bombay area. Dnyaneshvari in Sanskrit and English (https://sanskritdocuments.org/marathi/) is the spine of the esoteric program around there for centuries. It is at least in part a Bhagavad Gita commentary; and we see that RGV is a Gita transfer into Buddhism.

This is the same neighborhood Kolhapur is in, and the temple of Amba Bai or Mahalakshmi.

Also, the Kubjika Tantra describes the center of Orissa, the Sri Mandira in Puri, the abode of Mahalakshmi: mahalakshmimaya pitha uddiyanamtah param. In the tantra, Mahalakshmi (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/mahalakshmi) presides at Kolagiri (Kolhapur)--and this is the same as in Vajradaka Tantra, with the alternate name Jvala Mukhi. A comparison (https://books.google.com/books?id=iggRAwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA194&ots=Or3AUQNk6N&dq=kollagiri%20vajradaka&pg=PA194#v=onepage&q=kollagiri%20vajradaka&f=false) shows Vajradaka uses a lot of exclusively Hindu terminology like this. A Vajradaka study (https://www.academia.edu/36426356/A_Critical_Study_of_the_Vajra%E1%B8%8D%C4%81kamah%C4%81tantrar%C4%81ja_II_Sacred_Districts_and_Pract ices_Concerned_) elaborates this, and says Vajradaka begins from Dakini Jala. Or in Tantra vol. IV (https://kupdf.net/download/encyclopaedia-of-tantra-vol-iv_58e6b35cdc0d60da54da9827_pdf), also has divinity as defined in tantra.

So from either a Vaisnava or Shaivite (Kubjika) background, she leaps to eminence, characterized by the Namo Stu'te song posted a while back. Both of these are interlaced to Buddhism, and are perhaps necessary to explain it. It may still be possible that Buddhism absorbed the exoteric names, put them into tantric practice, and backfed it into Hinduism, to some extent.

Mahalakshmi is over Eight Lakshmis, such as Dhana[da], Vara[da], and Dhanya (grain, or Ila Devi). She is said to possibly appear with 1,000 arms, but may be worshipped in eighteen arm form.

Here is a Puja talk (https://www.amruta.org/1984/02/03/shri-mahalakshmi-puja-kolhapur-1984/) on Mahalakshmi that was given at Kolhapur by her Guru. It is a type of Sahaja Yoga; there is the rising of kundalini, Laya Yoga, and so on. So the temple on its home page looks completely exoteric, but, the inner tradition still goes on.

I have not seen much in Buddhist tantra that unfurls any famous male deities like Krishna or Shiva. It is all Lakshmi. At least in one view of Kubjika, Mahalakshmi occupies the Sun Mandala of Khecari Chakra on or above above the head, which is what the commentary also seems to say about Mahattari. Similar to Nath, this is like an "exchange" area which must be energetically penetrated to reach the goddess of supreme form, or Purnagiri Pitha or Para Sunya, much like the cusp of void, through "the voids", into Great Void.

It could perhaps be said that in manifestation, she is like Vasudhara and holds the Yaksha kingdom, but, with Ekajati and Vajrapanjara Tantra, it also lands on her being utterly un-manifest, much as she says in Lakshmi Tantra.

[Old Student]

Nyan was a contemporary of Bari, who gave his own sadhanas of the Taras, Mahakala, and Red Lion Face Vajrayogini called Ziro Bhusana. If Nyan's Taras are grouped with Varada, Khadira, and Dhanada, then perhaps using Sadhanamala Taras to raise Ziro Bhusana is not so terribly awkward.
When I had looked them up they were all explicitly (except Atisha, who would have been bringing teachings from abroad) stated to have had visions of Tara. Nyan maybe wrote his up as sadhanas, might the others as well? That would account for thinking the 21 included 4 separate White Taras.


The dharani you mentioned refers to a male, Bhagavate Jambhara (Citron). It is almost Jambhala or Vaisravana, but the name in the dharani is Manibhadra:
Thanks. I did find this guy, I had thought since it had an "endra" maybe it was more related to Jambhari but it doesn't really fit together, it would be Jambharindra instead.


It sounds to me like you have some amount of non-apperception, formlessness, and bliss. I simply do not understand the physical stuff. I have been mulling over the Push Hands against inner tension, but, anything I do etherealizes me, is more like paralysis. It dissipates all the Vrittis, or Samsara, or Karmic Wind, is very still and slow.

Non-apperception meaning seeing things without self or relation to self? I haven't heard this term before.

The pushing hands, if it is the way I was using it isn't heavy or even pressing against something it's following something by "listening" to it and sort of "encouraging" it along. I did shaking as more of a therapeutic thing before this kind of shaking I'm doing now started, working my way into a joint or sore muscle and letting it move until the pain unraveled, which causes it to shake. At this level, the shaking happens by the body being just a little bit in tension with itself. If you hold your arm and hand out in front of your face with the hand relaxed and about maybe 2 feet in front of your face, and just hold it there and try to notice everything down to the smallest little twitch or shake of the fingers, you can get a feeling for not telling it what to do but encouraging it when it does something. That's pretty much push hands -- if it were an opponent, you would feel for what they were doing, not try to stop it but kind of encourage it to go a little further than they expected to go -- which makes them topple over.

If you are trying to get shaking going to go further than that, it has to be combined with bliss generated from something about the strength of a large orgasm, like using Tummo or similar practices to generate the energy that powers the shaking. After a while it just starts by itself upon waking, but in the beginning you have to cultivate that bliss part because that's what powers everything. Also after a while, the bliss can be generated at other places in the body, most easily near the solar plexus or just below the clavicular notch. If that bliss generation is part of the equation then the pushing hands feeling is the feeling of sitting at the fulcrum of the bliss and moving in initially very tiny ways and very tiny muscles to keep it at the fulcrum and gradually pulling it inward.

[Old Student]

The tantra is also directly and almost purely occult; it skips Kriya, has little to do with Charya, and does not deal much with architecture, funerals, and other public topics found in many of these.

One of the basic occult ideas is Three Gunas, as taught in Dnyaneshvari, whereas Lakshmi explains the whole twisted evolution of form and describes her transcendent Non-dual Divine Gunas. It is very subtle and profound.

I will listen to the Puja talk. I'm not sure I understand these three as something non-dual and divine.

I think that it may very well be the fact that the female (Shakti) is the energy or primordial wisdom, and not solely that my clear body is female that makes for all of the Dakinis and deities that occur in my shaking mostly being female (there have been some male visions but none of the teaching deities is male).

[shaberon]

I'm not sure I understand these three as something non-dual and divine.

I think that it may very well be the fact that the female (Shakti) is the energy or primordial wisdom, and not solely that my clear body is female that makes for all of the Dakinis and deities that occur in my shaking mostly being female (there have been some male visions but none of the teaching deities is male).

I am not sure I understand the Divine Gunas either. I am working on it. The main idea is close to what in English we call "planes", which are represented in the Puranas by Wars in Heaven.

Lakshmi says there is only Darkness when Vishnu sleeps; he experiences a subconscious desire for sound, and she tickles his feet to wake him up, which begins the process of manifestation from homogeneous Root Matter. And then they start in a very subtle divine plane--when this is doubled or reflected, projected to a lower plane, Lakshmi commands the deities to wife swap--reality "twists". And then to eventually make the physical plane, it is buried/covered.

Yes, Shakti is the main perception, the main agent, dominant in most ways, and although I do not really experience dakinis, the same principle says that meditative goddesses are a great guide, and so this is what I have been reading, without asking the males any questions. However Manjushri and Vajrapani barge their way in by being highly explanatory. I can, by comparison, ignore Hayagriva and try to learn what Horse Head rite is about--the Aswins, or, Aswin Shakti. Or, it may be evident that the back story of any deity is what I am after. It never did me much good to hear that Amoghasiddhi is Green which represents Jealousy and is associated with Air. Too static. When we learn him as something like the Drum Guru of Tara from another universe, his older names like Vikata and Paramasva, and what it means for the sense of touch to be associated with Air, but, tantricly redirected elsewhere, once we get an idea of what he is about and what he is doing, then the image has a quality.

Just as we do not exactly worship pictures, and saying something like Om Amoghasiddhaye Kham Svaha would just be mummery, once you make the mental associations, it can really come to life.

Someone once said Amoghasiddhi is Amogha (Not Ignorant) about Siddhi (occult powers). He knows it all. And, he knows you. You might not be aware of this, but, if you get near where he is, you will start to remember.

Newer and better translations from Sanskrit have given "English" Buddhism a few stock phrases, such as Discursive Thought, replacing "Monkey Mind". Another one:

Apperception is thus a general term for all mental processes in which a presentation is brought into connection with an already existent and systematized mental conception, and thereby is classified, explained or, in a word, understood; e.g. a new scientific phenomenon is explained in the light of phenomena already analysed and classified. The whole intelligent life of man is, consciously or unconsciously, a process of apperception, in as much as every act of attention involves the appercipient process.

Example
A rich child and a poor child walking together come across the same ten dollar bill on the sidewalk. The rich child says it is not very much money and the poor child says it is a lot of money. The difference lies in how they apperceive the same event – the lens of past experience through which they see and value (or devalue) the money.

The Gods Dwelling in the Winds have Non-Apperception. This, according to psychology, is a state that a normal human being is never in, they think you are sick or broken if you quit doing it. As far as I can tell, by medical diagnosis, the mental or non-mental states on the Path are utterly insane. But, it actually is sane, it is like having control over some strange power that usually would result in a grievous psychotic or demented experience.

Non-dual Gunas mean that they are made of a couple, made of male and female deities. Another thing to be aware of is the brother of Vishnu. They reincarnate together, and there are many intrigues in this saga, such as the Curse of Vishnu, which come from the Puranas, and it continues in the national Epics with Rama (Ramayana) and Krishna (Mahabharata). So to really talk about Vishnu takes volumes of thousands of pages, but, we can glean Lakshmi if we rake through a handful of teachings and sadhanas.

These notes may need to be re-worked. I am not sure if any of the Guru's talks will be all that informative; this is skimming from the book. I don't fully get it yet, but, can get some fuzzy inkling of different levels of existence and the moving and merging of different entities. Lakshmi Tantra says:

Her rest state is Absolute Brahman and her first differentiation is four-fold Aum, called transcendental existence and knowledge, first deviation from tamasic inertia. This is to say the Three-in-One, a u m + silence.

Samkarsana "contraction" fills the void (Iccha).

Pradyumna then causes greater activity (Jnana).

When the momentum of activity then causes her to be swayed by will, she is Kriya Shakti.

First deviation is seen as unmanifest, or Sarva Sunya. Mostly the same as Kanya or Kumara or Agnishvattas, and lacking body which is of the Barhishads or Lunar Pitris. This is Great Void which is called different things in different systems, but, the Shaivite term is Para Sunya, which is an equivalent name for Shentong philosophy.

The names are even twisted; Mahavidya does not produce Vidya.

Mahalakshmi in Pralaya is Tamas or Mahamaya. Rajas is Mahasri. Sattva is Mahavidya. They mentally produce three pairs of male-female when active:

Mahalakshmi with Pradyumna makes her pair Brahma and Rajas Mahasri/Padma/Lakshmi, which is pregnant with the Egg, Hiryanagarbha, or egg of the cosmos.

Mahamaya's pair has Ishvara/Rudra/Samkara and Tamas Trayi/Sarasvati/Vidya.

Mahavidya's pair is Hrisikesa/Vasudeva and Sattva Gauri/Sati/Chandi.




She then orders Gauri to marry Rudra, Trayi to marry Brahma, and Padma to marry Vasudeva. Later commands Samkarsana and Gauri to break the Egg open. This makes Avyakta, the unmanifest, into Water. Pradhana of the Egg, which is of the nature of void, becomes Water (cosmic plane of Varuna, the Great Deep). It is this phase which we would recognize as the expected couples, Shiva--Sati, Brahma--Sarasvati, Vishnu--Lakshmi, of the normal Three Gunas or Tri-Shakti.

And the Divine Pairs are switched around. As you see, Lakshmi orders them to twist into different sets outside of Pralaya. We are not in a Pralaya so we are in Water, not Passive Mulaprakriti. It is the Formlessness or Kumaris of an active phase of the One Life. Even as Formless Water, it is the same Pradhana as void, and we realize them to be non-different. Pradhana is Mulaprakriti, which, in its active condition, is Water, Chaos, Great Void. It occupies a Prajna Space which is without relation to the space occupied by bodies or forms as we know them. Space related to the senses is twisted, inverted, and negativized from it.

When it moves towards Form:

In this Water, Vishnu--Hrisikesa sleeps accompanied by Padma and Vidya. Padma becomes Rajas, Maya is Tamas, Vidya is Sattva. Svaha gives Six Agni Seeds to Ganga. These are the ones from the Pleiadian trick. And from that point, Time and Form develop, i. e. cosmos and lower planes and the material Water element.

Lakshmi's prime power is Pradyumna: "Pre-eminently mighty one", "The Illuminator"; first son of Krishna, Kama-Eros. Also Manas. Kama and Manas. Love. Bhaga. As Bala-Rama's son, Sanat Kumara. With this Vyūha, the duality of Spirit (Puruṣa) and Matter (Prakṛti) makes its appearance, by means of the aiśvarya guṇa. It is not the first power from Deep Sleep, but the first she uses when active.

Linguistically, Pradyumna is also the only name in Sanskrit with all the 3 letters joined.

Now what was an aisvarya guna. Well, it could be the list of Sadguna (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/shadguna) that the male deity has, a string of attributes, but Lakshmi renders them into pairs:

Vijnana--bala (Samkarsana), Aisvarya--virya (Pradyumna), and Shakti--tejas (Aniruddha; kriya). Deep sleep, dream, and waking.

Vasudeva, characterized by the six gunas, is sometimes called the first Vyuha (separation or array). From Vasudeva emanates three more vyuha: Sankarshana (Deep Sleep) in whom jnana and bala alone get manifested. From Sankarshana comes Pradyumna (Dream) to whom belong aishvarya and virya. From Pradyumna emanates Aniruddha (Waking) to whom shakti and tejas appertain.

Jnana is called vijnanaghana of Brahman or his svarupa; omniscience. Tejas is nirmanakaya and jyoti. Aisvarya is freedom and lordliness. Bala is several aspects of our preparatory path (mindfulness, sraddha, virya, samadhi, prajna), directly realized and developed at the eighth bodhisattva level, fully realized in ten ways by a Samyak Sambuddha.

Aniruddha rules all souls, seated in the secret heart lotus (Kshetra).



Avatars are sent by the Vyuha, but are not the transcendental Sadguna Brahman, because they are Vishnu.

She gives her own aliases: Mahalakshmi is the highest (mahat). Mahasri is the ultimate resort of the noble (mahat). She is Candi, Bhadra, Kali, Mahamaya, Mohini, Durga, and Bhagavati. She has slurped up some names of Shiva's wife, but, in this tale, Mahalakshmi is the One Reality, and Shiva's wife is a division or partial projection of her, the fates of Sati take place after the Mind-born generation of Brahma within the planetary creation, so they are after the Wars in Heaven and other pre-cosmic events staged by Mahalakshmi.

I can't yet explain how the Gunas are all that different in the world systems, but, it definitely is a subject. On the most superficial level, this is all the next thing to saying Buddhist Tara is Mahalakshmi, and therefor why she can be Candi and Durga, which would never match any standard correspondences. It is remarkably close to the same. If we know Vajradaka employs Kolagiri Mahalakshmi, which means Kolhapur Mahalakshmi, which is replicated at a Yoga level by her heading the Dharani goddesses, we would be hard pressed to say it is irrelevant to Buddhist tantra. This one will tell us something about the relation of Sound to Touch, which is obviously in Buddhism when we look at the movement of Sparsha Vajra, but it is difficult to extrapolate what it is trying to say.

It seems to me the thing should be called Mahalakshmi Tantra. It is around 180 pages of descriptive information, and then at least 200 pages of sadhanas. And of course the Yogachara view means that the verbal technical information is really just a background for Yoga practice. Even if I did not use this system--such as its mantras and deity forms--its inner meaning should be quite applicable for Tara practice. And this is why Buddhist Tara does not really cover creation and so forth, because it is done here, so it definitely is a supplement. Or, it takes this to explain why we have almost any Taras. Several of the ones from Sadhanamala that just seem "miscellaneous" are rooted here.

An exception would be Nagarjuna's Khadira Tara. And it is almost impossible to know the authorship of most sadhanas or how they came to be. Sakya sadhanas are mostly from Bari and Sakya Sri, as transmitters, nothing says they wrote the stuff. Most tantras claim Jnana Dakini or Vajradhara as the actual author, who imparted it to some earthly individual. So we should think of most of these as direct initiations from the deity, rather than a human trial-and-error process that experimentally worked out. From what I can tell, Nagarjuna and Nyan are the main contributors of their own personal revelations into sadhana form of Yoga deities useful to the Path.

It has been said that Nyan was always accompanied by Tara. And so when we look at his version of Vajrayogini, she is above Guhyajnana and the Four Dakinis. This is virtually the same description of Mahattari from Kubjika tantra. But a slightly different approach. Rather than using it explicitly as the crown chakra, it has to do with Lotus Family, and the attachment of fivefold form to the sixth principle of mind, and therefor what is a Dharmadhatu Vajra. It, the Mental Object, can either be turned outward, whereby the five are sensory, or, if turned inward and form is cut off, you are left with Feeling, Perception, Samsara, Mind, Akasha, and two stages of cessation. By definition, it seems to say this is the inner Dharmadhatu Vajra. And so if we ground this in a Lotus Family way, with mantra and the intent of Sambhogakaya and Samapatti--Gauris, this is the grounding for the higher stage when it does mean crown chakra and entrance of void. It is like saying the Four Dakinis are alternately Four Chakras, or the inner ring of Jnana Chakra--a mobile pattern.

I cannot say Nyan's Vajrayogini is the only way to do it, but I can say it follows the teaching closely, in a rare method which requires less of the male-based memorization or rote performance, because it relies on experiential Yoga goddesses, mainly Sarasvati and Tara.

[Old Student]

Apperception is thus a general term for all mental processes in which a presentation is brought into connection with an already existent and systematized mental conception, and thereby is classified, explained or, in a word, understood...
Yes, I am aware of this definition. It is what makes everything fit into a 3.5lb brain. The general lack of apperception over an event would normally cause something close to PTSD or something.

If one makes the duality perception-apperception, then the implication is that perception is the taking in of information without the apperceptive piece.

What I take away from this is perhaps what people mean using this duality is that there is a perception of something without prejudice from prior experience, or a perception completely free from application of such. And what would come of a non-dual version which is neither perception nor not perception nor apperception nor not apperception is that in order for that to be an unordered experience completely, there would have to be some kind of order innate to the perceived world.

So when I perceive "not me" as I said, there are various ways and some of them perhaps have no apperception but have perception and some of them perhaps don't have either, but there is also a state of perceiving, and perhaps also apperceiving, but with no "I" and even no possibility of "I".

This is why I say I don't understand it. I write three paragraphs in which I mix writing about what one feels with the logic native to the words and end up with nothing. But "not me" or "formless" are not that confused, they just aren't ordinary or sometimes easy to do, they are very clear in their perception and were the first time they are encountered which means they need no apperception to recognize them. Now if it can be argued that they are absorbed into consciousness without the use of percepts, then perhaps they are non-dual perception-apperception. But again, so many words for something that is so "such", because analytical words are normally used for logic.


It seems to me the thing should be called Mahalakshmi Tantra. It is around 180 pages of descriptive information, and then at least 200 pages of sadhanas. And of course the Yogachara view means that the verbal technical information is really just a background for Yoga practice. Even if I did not use this system--such as its mantras and deity forms--its inner meaning should be quite applicable for Tara practice. And this is why Buddhist Tara does not really cover creation and so forth, because it is done here, so it definitely is a supplement. Or, it takes this to explain why we have almost any Taras. Several of the ones from Sadhanamala that just seem "miscellaneous" are rooted here.

The whole creation myth you outlined (thank you) makes a lot of things more clear. I noted you said there was an intertwining and a switching of names. In Daoism (you probably know this), there is a whole literature around the ba gua (八卦 - literally eight symbols, eight trigrams). They have elemental characteristics, air, water, earth, fire, metal and then thunder, mountain, lake and wind. There are all sorts of things these need to be cultivated and combined and so forth and so on in Nei dan (内丹 literally, inner cinnabar --> inner pill, inner elixir) which is "Daoist alchemy". But there are two sets of ba gua oriented to different places on the compass or in the body, one for pre- and one for post-, which people take to be pre-born and post-born.

I thought of this when you talked about how as the creation myth is creating, the forms shift and switch and intertwine.

There is one piece that I am intensely interested in right now, and why I had asked you about jambharendrasya. Marici is the light, spec. the first light, so she is in some respects the essence (although not I guess the shakti) of Surya, who is the sun, and this acknowledges the difference between the two. Indra's vajra is the thunderbolt, Indrani/Vajri/Mahendri, etc. is his shakti, but who is the essence of the bolt itself?

I quoted you from my notes, you can see from that that there is a new form of bliss which has started, I also mentioned it before that I think, which is all electricity and sparks and such. It has become very "equal" with the liquid bliss, and even, like the liquid, has differentiating colors and places forming.

But lightning in Indian Buddhist/Hindu thought is always the output of the vajra, although vajra in modern common usage does mean lightning, not the weapon. There seems like there should be a female, shakti-ish, non-form deity of its power, that is not an astra, but what emanates from one.

I spent much of last night as a "world", my "ground" was liquid, was bliss, was my torso, and my "sky" was my ribcage, which had faded to almost invisible and become a dark sky crackling and thundering everywhere with lightning. There is something having to do with branching, sometimes writhing, wires or tubes at my heart, so I did appreciate the point of view, since I was inside my chest looking out, but some part of the puzzle is that lightning "pre-essence", if she, energy/shakti is she, we agree, has a name.

[shaberon]

What I take away from this is perhaps what people mean using this duality is that there is a perception of something without prejudice from prior experience, or a perception completely free from application of such. And what would come of a non-dual version which is neither perception nor not perception nor apperception nor not apperception is that in order for that to be an unordered experience completely, there would have to be some kind of order innate to the perceived world.


It is difficult to express, but yes, we could say we are attempting to use a Purified Perception--a purified Samjna Skandha. From the Puranas, there is the Spiritual Samjna and the Shadow Samjna, and this is perhaps the first major esoteric "thing".

Concurrently, we would say everything follows Law, or Dharma, whatever is perceived is still part of a Dhatu or Realm, and so it is ordered and we should be neither too intrigued nor too repelled by whatever may arise. Again when we say Space, this is bare space without any object, however, such space is full of Life with full potential to create an entire cosmos mentally. That is closer to the meaning of Akash. It pulsates or vibrates unconsciously until producing Unstruck Sound and so on.

These two things are what I would abide in when the normal brain goes "whoosh", Samjna and the Akash.

Varuni is the process of personally transforming such Akash into Nectar. White Akashadhatvishvari Tara or Maitri Dakini are the Akash of the head when the broken boxes and cobwebs are swept away and it gets ready to respond to the Heart.

Buddha does not think. If we ask him a question, we get an automatic answer, like an echo, which was pre-set to respond to us personally in complete detail. That is why he is Tathagata. Wherever we are going, he was already there. He does not apperceive, does not take any information from us and process it against a library.





There is one piece that I am intensely interested in right now, and why I had asked you about jambharendrasya. Marici is the light, spec. the first light, so she is in some respects the essence (although not I guess the shakti) of Surya, who is the sun, and this acknowledges the difference between the two. Indra's vajra is the thunderbolt, Indrani/Vajri/Mahendri, etc. is his shakti, but who is the essence of the bolt itself?

I quoted you from my notes, you can see from that that there is a new form of bliss which has started, I also mentioned it before that I think, which is all electricity and sparks and such. It has become very "equal" with the liquid bliss, and even, like the liquid, has differentiating colors and places forming.

But lightning in Indian Buddhist/Hindu thought is always the output of the vajra, although vajra in modern common usage does mean lightning, not the weapon. There seems like there should be a female, shakti-ish, non-form deity of its power, that is not an astra, but what emanates from one.


That is a good question.

The inner Marici is radiated by us.

As essence of the thunderbolt, I could say for sure Agni, but, then we are in a bind, if Agni is male, how is it a Shakti?

Shakti itself means a weapon--a spear. It may not be remiss to simply call lightning, Shakti, who as a whole could be called Mahalakshmi.

Marici is not the wife or Shakti of Surya, but again more like a daughter. Just as when we look around physically, we would have to report that all forms are just a transformation of solar energy, we are also saying that consciousness is a ray of the sun, what we call our mind is just a transformation of "this" kind of solar energy. Then if we accept this is totally full of love, healing, and wisdom, we would be after the most purified grade, or maybe this just means uncontaminated by earthly garbage. Either way, man does not partake directly in the Absolute, but only via the thread of the most sublime samadhi, using or making us at one with the best kind of energy.

Correspondingly, the "crucified" Surya with his head gouged out, represents that a hidden drop of energy lives in man's head, and that melting the White Bodhicitta is the First Joy. It may be in the form of Shiva's Moon Sword, but what is the lunar form if not a reflection of the sun?

Garuda or Thunderbird could perhaps be considered electric. Since we have found the Hindus did not call it lightning, per se, they called it Ocean Fire...and in terms of consciousness, we are noumenally doing something like conjuring a lightning bolt from Varuna which is the Vast Deep, Chaos, Tiamat, and so on, formless, equivalent to the Buddhic Plane.

I will sniff around the Marici material or wherever we might find something else that suggests lightning or electricity. Kalaratri is for instance depicted with Lightning Jewelry, but I cannot remember what she called it in Sanskrit. I can practically promise something is there in Hindu alchemy. The Buddhist Vajra is mainly taught in Five Prongs as Rainbow Light, the Winds--Families. But they come in a single to a Nine Prong form, which perhaps is one to Nine Families.


Some of this ties together with the names of obscure Taras. Vasyadhikara Tara means she has authority in the office of Vasya, subjugation. Vasikara is "enchantress" but also from the old yoga books, it is a degree of Vairagya: "Vairagya means dispassion for worldly and heavenly objects. A person who is satisfied with the worldly objects craves for Swarga- heavenly pleasures. A person who knows this world as an appearance do not crave for money, power and sex and do not acquire worldly objects except the bare necessities. This is called Vairagya. It comes after discrimination." Firstly one refrains from obstacles, then sees objects as appearances and hindrances while still having subtle attachments, in the third stage one burns off the subtle attachments, and the last or Vasikara stage is the knowledge path resulting from freedom and elimination of citta vrittis. Vairagya has also been called Samjna, so Vasikara Samjna means the same as this, which would be Purified Perception.

We have talked about formlessness and the potential use of a system of Nine. Tiphupa was a teacher of Rechung and gave the Kagyu lineage the "nine-fold cycle of the formless Dakinis". Siddharajni's only biography is in that of Rechung. Tiphupa composed a song to her. He calls her Vajravarahi, Vajrayogini, and Pandaravasini and says she met Vajradhara, Chakrasamvara, Avalokiteshvara, Hayagriva, all the dakinis of the sacred sites, and Simhamukha. She has a skullcup and knife. She is also shown with dorje, bell, and third eye. She transmitted the Padmanarta--Guhyajnana meditation, wherein the Four Arm form is the beginning and Two Arm is secret practice. She calls the fact that anger is baseless, Hayagriva, and that desire has no root, Guhyajnana.

I am not sure what that ninefold cycle is, but, concerning the Nepalese Buddhist Nine Amnaya (https://books.google.com/books?id=qXBq0DO8m4AC&lpg=PA95&ots=E8FUNrjFRx&dq=vajraraja%20vajradharma%20vajrakarma&pg=PA94#v=onepage&q=vajraraja%20vajradharma%20vajrakarma&f=false) or Families:

These are from Dharma Samgraha as given by Pandit Amritananda to Brian Hodgson. It must not be the same as the published Dharma Samgraha, which was compiled by a Japanese student of Max Muller. It follows a customary system of Six, and for Seven, just has the Heroic or Historical Buddhas--and then makes these nine by adding Sakyamuni Buddha and Dipamkara.

The lists are intended to designate mandalas, which is why the numbers look out of order. The first one of the series of nine is Nine Misrita (mixed) Prajna and Buddha Families, centered on Vairocana with Vajradhatvishvari, with the usual ring of Akshobya and the others, then Locana and the rest. This would standardly be called a nine deity configuration, since the central couple is counted as a single entity. Nothing unusual here unless you wonder if this Vajradhatvishvari is Marici. But usually we would still see this as Five Families, who are not all in Union, thereby making nine deities.

Then it gives Nine Dhyani Buddha Families, extending the five usual ones with Vajrasattva, Vajraraja, Vajradharma, and Vajrakarma. This matches Nine Dhyani Prajna Families, meaning Vajradhatvishvari and the regular ones, then Vajrasattvatmika, Ratnavajrini, Dharmavajrini, and Karmavajrini.

This is followed by two lists of the Sangha which are Bodhisattvas.

Then there are Nine Sutras, which are the Root of Puja Krama.

Then there is a Sangha of nine female Bodhisattvas, which are unique here: Bhrikuti, Maitrayani, Pushpa Tara, Sita Tara, Ekajati, Vagisvari, Dhupa Tara, Dipa Tara, and Gandha Tara.

Then there are Nine Devi Prajna Families, which means standard dharani goddesses plus Vajra Vidarini and Ganapati Hrdaya.

Then comes the Misrita (mixed) Nine Dharma Families, which are the same six Prajnas, plus Vasudhara, Pratyangira, and Guhyeshvari. And so what makes this unique is being called Dharma, as if meaning Dharmadhatu. We have Dharani and Sutra and Family classifications from any number of sources, but I am not aware of anything like this, except for the Bodhisattva Path itself as being stages in the opening of Dharmadhatu, and the vernacular of Dharmadhatu Vajra and Dharmadhatu Ishvari.

The whole thing is an explanation of Sri Ekamnaya--Navamnaya--Devatah, meaning One to Nine Families of Devatah, meaning they are reliable in the use of their mantras. "One" is called Upaya, Adi-Buddha, and Mahavairocana, whose female correspondence is Prajna and Prajnaparamita. "Two" is Upaya--Prajna and Prajna--Upaya, which is a bit like saying Father and Mother tantra, meaning there is emphasis on one side or the other.

So the Nine Dharmas are intended as some kind of ultimate truth which has acquainted itself with all the Dhyanis, the Sutras, and Dharanis. The Dharanis and Dharmas lack a corresponding male set.

If we look at what the Dhyani Families are being described as, we would obtain:

Vajrasattva with Vajrasattvatmika

Vajraraja with Ratnavajrini

Vajradharma with Dharmavajrini

Vajrakarma with Karmavajrini

It looks innocuous enough, but is a bit problematic. Firstly, the male names would not indicate Buddhas, they are Bodhisattvas in STTS and Vajradhatu mandala and so forth. Vajrakarma is simply a multi-colored Bodhisattva in Karma Family, and Vajradharma is a Bodhisattva in Lotus Family, which was originally called Dharma Family, which more clearly could be called
Dharma Speech Family.

We could have gotten this nice rendition of Vajrakarma if we had been on time with $316k:

https://www.christies.com/img/LotImages/2013/NYR/2013_NYR_02687_0329_000(a_thangka_of_amoghasiddhi_central_tibet_late_13th_early_14th_century).jpg








There is, however, a red form of Vajradhara, which is supposed to be called Vira Vajradharma. It is perhaps his single emanation as a Celestial Bodhisattva. In this guise, he uses a Drum and Skullcup. Here he is with Naro in the process of conjuring Naro Dakini:

https://images2.bonhams.com/image?src=Images/live/2018-02/06/24686885-11-1.jpg&width=640&height=480&autosizefit=1









His Blue Dharmakaya form does not, itself, teach, but emanates the Red for this purpose:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/535px/9/0/1/90137.jpg







Under the lotus and draping in front of the elephant throne is a decorative fabric adorned with the monogram of the Kalachakra mantra, the 'Ten Powerful Syllables,' gold lettered, written in Ranjana script and framed in a leaf pattern. This is likely one of the earliest appearances of the Kalachakra monogram in a Tibetan scroll painting.

Slightly above the two central figures is a Tibetan lama with the hands in the vajra embracing gesture, wearing monastic robes, and red pandita hat. There is no inscription or any attributes in the hands, or above the shoulders, but he is likely to be Ngorchen Kunga Zangpo the founder of the Ngor sub-school of the Sakya Tradition. To the left is Heruka Vajrabhairava, buffalo headed, blue in colour, with one face and two hands holding a curved knife and skullcup - without a consort - standing atop a blue buffalo. On the right side is Rakta Yamari, red in colour, one face and two hands, with a consort, standing atop a red buffalo.

Between the Lama, Vajrabhairava and Rakta Yamari are three small figures. These three figures are called the 'Marmo Kor Sum' - the Cycle of Three Red Deities - Naro, Maitri, and Indra Dakinis.

It has Margapala Hevajra and Luipa Chakrasamvara. Another unique image rarely seen in paintings is the depiction of the two Pamtingpa brothers, included in the Chakrasamvara lineage, seated together on one throne and in one register window of the composition. It almost looks like a mistake of the artist or a double exposure of a camera. The identity of the Pamtings or Pharpings is obscure, it is possible they were only Dharma brothers; they resided in Nepal and held Vajrayogini lineages that Atisha never had. Nepal has those Three Red Dakinis, plus something we would have to call Mahacina Tara, Guhyajnana Dakini, and Guhyeshvari, who likes Manjushri.

At the lower left are three red deities known as the 'Mar Chen Kor Sum' - the Three Great Red Deities - Takkiraja, Kurukulla and Maharakta Ganapati. Now in the art and academic world they often skip the "Middle Three Reds" being Tarodbhava Kurukulla, Bharati, and Tinuma Vajrayogini. Tinuma is mantricly similar to Nyan's Ziro Bhusana, both are a kind of Red Vajrayogini, and so it should be pretty clear why saying a practice of Guhyajnana Dakini and Ziro Bhusana is an "energetic parallel" of both the Small and Middle Three Reds, it is an outer Yoga equivalent to them, meshes right into their system.

This thangka is considered unique.

The trouble with Vajraraja (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/vajraraja) is it may mean Manjushri or Amoghasiddhi. Vajraraja--Amoghasiddhi is for instance found on a unusual "Hand" practice of Armor Deities (https://books.google.com/books?id=vDE6AwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA219&ots=RB2JdNYyBg&dq=vajraraja&pg=PA219#v=onepage&q=vajraraja&f=false), where Elizabeth English repeats the mistake that Paramasva is Hayagriva, he is not, but can apparently be called Vajraraja.

STTS (https://eprints.soas.ac.uk/28567/1/10672726.pdf) p. 48 indicates all four of these names are the most important Bodhisattva Mahasattvas, just before its rendition of Abhisambodhis.

Vajraraja makes an unusual appearance in Beale's Catena of Scriptures from the Chinese (https://books.google.com/books?id=fAsyO--ItB4C&lpg=PA367&dq=vajraraja&pg=PA367#v=onepage&q=vajraraja&f=false).

It looks to me like the Nine Buddha Families involve the Mahasattvas from STTS, which implies that Vajraraja is Jewel Family, or, i. e. is attached to Ratnavajrini, which will be difficult, since in the STTS the Karma and Jewel Families seem to be combined as one.

Vajradhara never does much of anything, and the Dharma Samgraha scheme is centered on Mahavairocana, which suggests it is based on STTS and Vajradhatu mandala, which is an exoteric, public affair in Nepal, just like the lists of Sutras and Devis or Dharanis. It is only by looking at the Nine Dharmas that anything really stands out. I am not quite sure yet what the difference between a Prajna and a Dharma is supposed to be, especially since most of them are the same. In representations and practice, Prajnas are simple and do not do much, whereas the Dharmas can be associated with anything up to 1,000 Arm forms and are infused with the entire tantric system, although they do not require Union. Or, the ones of them who are extensions to the main Six Prajnas are like that.

Vajradhara's consort is sometimes just called Bhagavani, meaning she holds six transcendent virtues, which could be said to be him. If his name possibly means Lightning Holder, that could be said to be her.

The original Six Elements is Vasudeva, who is held by Vasudhara, who is considered the Seventh Dharma.

Vajrasattvatmika means she is made or composed of Vajrasattva. So if I understand Buddhist tantra, the first five are primordial and inherent to anyone, whereas Vajrasattva is Bodhi Mind. So it is like saying I have to develop a Shakti of Bodhi Mind to even knock at the door of Vasudhara. I would say that is kind of a big deal since it has Forest Maidens, Varahi, Shamballah, and Yakshas, which are Life Winds in the Cemeteries and beyond to realms of Apsaras and Gandharvas. It is something other than Dakinis.

The employment of Vasudhara followed by the two last Dharmas makes perfect sense to me, even if I cannot quite make out how the Dhyani Families work. If they are Mahasattvas, you could consider them in the state of Vajradhara, about to become Vajradhatu Buddhas or something like that. The aspect of that system where it uses Sixteen male Bodhisattvas is difficult to me, even though it is ordinary knowledge from Nepal to Japan. I am familiar with what could be called the system of Tara dovetailing into Vajrayogini teaching Dakini Jala, which is a Six Family Wheel and thereby an energetic parallel to Vajradhatu. I personally never blinked as soon as HPB said there were Seven Buddha Families owing to Vajrasattva and Vajradhara. It is that simple to me, although showing it in the Canon requires overlooking STTS and Vajradhatu and most of what you would actually find. Almost every curious detail we look into comes down to a single example, or a concentrated thread through time.

I suppose as a culmination we would say System of Seven is demonstrated by Vajradaka Tantra, which, itself, blossoms into the 1,000 deity Heruka in Dakarnava.

Either kind of Family Wheel can show the root key which at once is to dissolve all voids thoroughly into Prabhasvara, and then to Emerge in Maha form in Full Sambhogakaya. That is what Buddha did, so, that is where Buddhist Yoga goes, which is a certain method of Nirguna and Sadguna Brahman. Part of the debate or dispute is that, in our school, we would say Nirguna or that which resides in Nirakara meditation is real, and it is achievable--easily so for those on the Eighth Bhumi, but, with effort, by others as well. Other schools also called Yogacara will tend to say that mind can only be Sakara, with an image, Citta Matra or Vijnapti Matra, changeable from moment to moment, or satisfy themselves with Bhakti of Sadguna Brahman.

Part of Emergence is called Perfect Image. And so in tantric evolution, at first there is Jnanadakini; then there is Buddhadakini, which means more of a "class", having four arms; and eventually Buddhakapala is with Citrasena--"she who paints". However that point is thoroughly reversed and nearly impossible to describe since it is the perception of Occult Color.

Vajradhara with Nairatma, Luipa, and Kanha:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/7/4/0/74039.jpg







Edit:

Sadhanamala's off-the-cuff response to Lightning is that:

Panca Raksa have a lightning cloud.

Usnisa Vijaya has:

sadvidyudvajrasampātapralāyāmbhodaniḥsvanāḥ /


Six Vidyut (Lightning) Vajra (Lightning?) and some kind of pralaya.



The big Ekajati is Vidyujjvala (Lightning bolt) Karali (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/karali), who is likely intended as the second Hora (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/hora#tibetan-buddhism) or Hour Goddess in Vajradaka. Midnight is Krsna, which makes sense, Midnight Blue, like an Indranila, or certain Lotuses, or the Dharmakaya. Karali could also be a tongue of Agni, or, a pisachi or raksasi with Maha Mayuri, but the second hour makes her equivalent to "First deviation" as in Lakshmi Tantra.

I knew this was her name but do not know of anything electric internal to her description. There could be blends or synonyms or something. Vidyut, at least, is not found with Marici.

[Old Student]

Concurrently, we would say everything follows Law, or Dharma, whatever is perceived is still part of a Dhatu or Realm, and so it is ordered and we should be neither too intrigued nor too repelled by whatever may arise. Again when we say Space, this is bare space without any object, however, such space is full of Life with full potential to create an entire cosmos mentally. That is closer to the meaning of Akash. It pulsates or vibrates unconsciously until producing Unstruck Sound and so on.

This morning I was breeze for some minutes (probably about ten). For some reason, I made special note of where I was in this discussion and came out with -- nothing. Not perception, not not perception, not apperception, not thought, not not thinking. Just nothing. As a breeze that didn't seem at all odd, or special or anything. I didn't even breathe apparently for some of the time.


I will sniff around the Marici material or wherever we might find something else that suggests lightning or electricity. Kalaratri is for instance depicted with Lightning Jewelry, but I cannot remember what she called it in Sanskrit. I can practically promise something is there in Hindu alchemy. The Buddhist Vajra is mainly taught in Five Prongs as Rainbow Light, the Winds--Families. But they come in a single to a Nine Prong form, which perhaps is one to Nine Families.

Thanks for putting all this together!

I did some poking around with some of the terms, things starting in vidyut seem promising, but they all seem to have to do with very specific instances. vidyuddaman विद्युद्दामन् seems to have garland or mass of lightning as one of its meanings, but I didn't find it attributed to someone.

I looked for Kalaratri, there seems to be confusion over whether she's wearing one of those aprons made of lightning or whether it's coming out of her eyes.

[added] I think I found it:


कालरात्रिम् करालिंका दिव्याम् विद्युतमाला विभूषिताम्॥
Kalaratrim Karalimka Divyam Vidyutamala Vibhu****am

[of] Kalaratri lolling mouth celestial chain of lightning adorned

or something like that.

[shaberon]

When I looked at the thing, I figured it was time to crack it open. This is what I call "tha shizzmatizz". That is because the art and the sadhana encapsulate practically everything. Without having pursued any other aspect of lightning, this is what it says.

A great deal of the obscure Taras are part of Ngor monastery. This is a specialized Sakya tradition. Himalayan Art has made details from some kind of Ngor thangka; I haven't been able to determine which one yet. These include Namasangiti Manjushri, along with a few Sadhanamala Taras such as Four Arm Sita and a couple of Jangulis. It also has Mahacina Krama Tara:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/9/7/59743.jpg








And the lightning we are discussing, Vidyujjvala Karali Ekajati:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/9/7/59726.jpg











The Bhutanese Drukpa version based on Sadhanamala for some reason includes single instances of Cunda and Janguli:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/8/9/1/89181.jpg







The topmost deity is Vajradhatvishvari Marici, flanked by two Oddiyana Maricis. Then the website identifies the yellow one on the left as Pichu Marici, which would mean Picuva--she has no boar face, but, as we have seen, the blue face should be the main one, and the artist has dodged this issue. They did however manage to find someone being transported in an unusual manner.

In Tibet and environs, what is called Sadhanamala is usually just a partial copy, as in the Ocean (https://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=1116) that thangka was designed from. You would have to know the subject to understand things like "White Vajra Tara" is Nagarjuna's Vajra Tara, similar to Mrtyuvacana. Although it is only semi-helpful, it does represent many of the same practices.

Ekajati herself lacks evolutionary forms. She has a White Form, and ones similar to Mahacina, and then you get this, which is usually called something bland like Twenty-four Armed Ekajati, but its name is something more like Lightning in the first deviation from pralaya.

I have never worked on this as it is basically Master's sadhana. It is not that long, but not bite-sized either. It is similar to Mahattari using multiple samadhis in order to reach the major form. I cannot read most of the Sanskrit, but, I will break it up where I recognize the terms of a Yoga nature. When I talk about using Varuni, Guhyajnana, and Ziro Bhusana Vajrayogini as a sadhana, one can tell that that is almost exactly what this is. Ours might use Gopali and Bharati as correspondences to the first two samadhis, and Guhyajnana in place of Ekajati, changing some identities while basically being the same pattern.


123.

nama ekajaṭāyai /

ataḥ paraṃ pravkṣyāmi yathākalpopadeśataḥ /
tārām ekajaṭāmnāyāṃ natvā tasyāḥ prasādhanam //


Ekajati is a personal name, but it is actually Tara in Ekajati Amnaya (Family or lineage) who is being given Prasad or devotional offering.

There is protection, then something like Ghana Smasana Cat (four) varadau (boons given):

oṃ huṃ vajrāṅge mama rakṣa rakṣa phaṭ svāhā ityanenātmarakṣāṃ
kṛtvā prathamaṃ tāvad yogī mukhaśaucādikaṃ kṛtvā
kvacid vijane ghanaśmaśānacatvārādau sakalajagadabhyuddharaṇotsāhavatsalaḥ
paramasukhābhyāsīnaḥ svahṛdi raktapadmopari
candramaṇḍale kṛṣṇahuṃkāraṃ saraśmikaṃ dhyāyāt / tasya raśminā'
'kāśe gurubuddhabodhisattvān dṛṣṭvā pūjayet / pāpadeśanā-
puṇyānumodanātriśaraṇagamanabodhicittotpādādikaṃ kṛtvā
ātmabhāvaniryātanāmārgāśrayaṇaṃ cāśayaviśuddhirahaṅkāra-
mamakāraparityāgaśveti maitrīkaruṇāmuditopekṣāṃ ca bhāvayet /

Paramasukha in one's heart begets a Red Lotus, Moon Disk, and Blue Hum of a thousand rays, which seems to get attention of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, ending with the Four Brahmavihara there.

Then you do it in a way that sounds like one of the schools, Citta Matra, although if not a proper name, it could be telling you to do the ritual in the mind only.

tataś ca -
cittamātraṃ tu vai tiṣṭhet bodhisambhārabhāvanaiḥ /
pratibhāsamātraṃ jñānaṃ oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako
'haṃ svaparaṃ vibhāvya śūnyaṃ prākpraṇidhim anusmaret / repheṇa
sūryaṃ purato vibhāvya tasmin ravau huṃbhavaviśvavajraṃ viśvavajrāntargataṃ
sūryamaṇḍalaṃ sūryamaṇḍalasyopari candramaṇḍale
sphuradratnapradīpam iva huṃkāraṃ niścalaṃ dhyāyāt / tatas tasmād
vinisṛtya nīlapītaraktahaitanānāvarṇaraśminikarai romavivaravinirgatai
raktapaṃkārajaṃ raktakamalaṃ raktatanu vairocanādiparamāṇumayaiḥ
pūrvādidikṣu caṃkramaṇena yamāntakādaystatrānīya
saṃpūjya tattvapūjādibhiḥ triśaraṇagamanādikaṃ
dhyāyāt tānyeva praveśayet iti buddhopasaṃhāro nāma
samādhiḥ /

That is an intricate development of letters and lotuses, which are the first samadhi, Buddhopasamharo, which has stemmed from something related to Vairocana and even Yamantaka.

The second samadhi, Samayasattvopakaro, comes from Karuna and Avalokya, which make forms or rupena of Vairocana Tathagata:

tataḥ karuṇāmroḍitahṛdayo yathākramaṃ narakaniryak-
pretamanuṣyāsuradevatām avalokya tadvinirgatnānāraśmibhiḥ
saṃspṛśya vairocanāditathāgatarūpeṇa niṣpādya tatraiva praveśayed
iti samayasattvopakāro nāma samādhiḥ /


It is possible that Vairocanadi means "Vairocana and others", which seems to have been the meaning with Locanadi, and so this may be about Five Buddhas.

More letters and sun disks raise the mandala elements Canopy, Fence, and so on, up to the Ekaraja or sole authority of the Dharmodaya:

tataḥ ākāśadeśe raktapaṃkārajaṃ raktakamalaṃ viśvadalaṃ
keśarānvitaṃ tanmadhye raktaraṃkārapariṇataṃ sūryamaṇḍalaṃ tasyopari
kṛṣṇahuṃkārajaṃ sūryam, sūryasthahuṃkārodbhavaṃ karālavajraṃ
yavapramāṇaṃ vajramayaṃ raśmivikīrṇaṃ sakalamārasainya-
vināśayamānaṃ vicintayet / tato bhāmirūrdhvagatābhir vajrapañjaraṃ
pārśvagatābhir vajraprākaraṃ vajravitānamadhogatābhir
vajramayīṃ bhūmiṃ vidadhyāt / tanmadhye śaradindudhavalāṃ antaḥ-
śūṣirāmūrdhvasthitatrikoṇāṃ ekārajāṃ dharmodayāṃ bhāvayet /



Then you cast Inverted Stupa, all they way through Sum--Mount Sumeru, which reaches the Tri-samadhi or Kaya Vak Citta:

tadgaganakuharāntargataṃ yaṃkārapariṇataṃ dhanvākāraṃ kṛṣṇābhaṃ
vāyumaṇḍalaṃ dhvajāṅkitam, tadupari raṃkārajaṃ pītaṃ trikoṇarephāṅkitaṃ
agnimaṇḍalaṃ tasyopari vaṃkārapariṇataṃ śvetavarṇaṃ
cakrākāraṃ āpomaṇḍalaṃ ghaṭhāṅkitam, tadupari laṃkārajaṃ
śyāmavarṇaṃ caturasraṃ pṛthvīmaṇḍalaṃ viśvavajrāṅkitam, tatropari
suṃkārapariṇataṃ mahāsumeruparvatarājaṃ catūrasnamayaṃ aīṭa-
śṛṅgopaśobhitam, tasyopari jhaṭiti raktakamalaṃ viśvadalaṃ
yāvad icchāvistaraṃ tatkiñjalke raviśaśisaṃpuṭayor madhye
huṃkāraṃ huṃkāreṇātmānaṃ vibhāvayet kāyavākcittātmakaṃ
kṛṣṇahuṃkāram / punaḥ kṛṣṇahuṃkārapariṇataṃ viśvavajraṃ viśvavajrapariṇāmajaṃ
kūṭāgāram -
caturasraṃ caturdvāram aṣṭastambhopaśobhitam /
hārārdhahārasaṃyuktaṃ vajrasūtrair alaṅkṛtam //
tasmin maṇḍalacakarāntargataṃ raviśaśisaṃpuṭayor madhye
dharmodaye gaganakuharāntargataṃ kṛṣṇahuṃkāraṃ dhyāyāt /


The main other deity who recites Inverted Stupa is Varahi 225, followed by the one using Armor Deities. And so for the most part, in Yoga we are using Varuni as the extensive teacher for what is in those Varahis and also used here, which corresponds to Generation Stage up to Pranayama--Muttering. Varuni is an emanation of Vajradhara, and here, a Yellow Hum raises White Maha Vajradhara:


tata ākāreṇa sūryamaṇḍalaṃ bhāvayet tadupari pītahuṃkārapariṇataṃ
mahāvajradharaṃ sitavarṇaṃ dhyāyād ekavaktraṃ dvibhujaṃ
trinetraṃ vajraghaṇṭādharaṃ dhyānastham ātmānaṃ tasya hṛdaye kṛṣṇahuṃkāraṃ
nānāraśmīn niścārya daśadiganantaparyantāvasthitān
tathāgatān buddhabodhisattvavidyādetatyaḥ krodhādīn
sañcodya punar āgatya tasminn eva sūrye praviśantaṃ cintayet /
tam eva mahāvajradharaṃ tān eva tathāgatādīn ekalolībhūtaṃ
praviśantaṃ paśyet / jvaladbhāsurākārāś ca yojanasahasravyāpinaṃ
tadupari kṛṣṇahuṃkāraṃ nānāraśmisaṃyutaṃ
tato huṃkārād raśmiṃ niścarantaṃ paśyet / punas tatraiva praveśya
tadevākṣaraṃ vikarālakṛṣṇaṃ mahāvajraṃ śvetakapālasthaṃ nānā-
raśmivisphurantaṃ dhyāyāt / buddhabodhisattvakrodhavidyādevatyo-
gaganatalatilakabimbam iva sūryāvasthitāścintayet /

Only then do we get to the Twelve Face deity--Vajra Bimba--who is a Vajraraudri I believe, or with one of the advanced tantric deities, and so the separation/border/promotion from prior deities and not even in the Gauris is "this" Ekajati:

tair buddhādibhiḥ sattvān paripācya punar āgatya vajrabimbaṃ praviśantaṃ
paśyet / tad eva vajrabimbaṃ dvādaśamukhāṃ mahākṛṣṇavarṇāṃ caturviṃśatibhujāṃ
caturmārasamākrāntāṃ śvetakapālopari pratyālīḍhapadāṃ
mahāpralayāgnisamaprabhāṃ vivṛtāsyāṃ hāhākārāṃ
lalajjihvāṃ saroṣāṃ vikṛtakoṭibhīmabhṛkuṭītaṭodbhrūnetra-
caladvartulāṃ bhayasyāpi bhayaṅkarīṃ kapālamālā śirasi
bhūṣitāṃ vyāḍair alaṅkṛtāṃ ṣaḍmudropetāṃ prathamamukhaṃ mahākṛṣṇaṃ
tathā dakṣiṇamukhapañcakaṃ sitapītaharitaraktadhūmravarṇaṃ ca
vāmamukhapañcakaṃ raktasitapītaharitasitaraktaṃ ca ūrdhvamukhaṃ
dhūmraṃ vikṛtaṃ kruddhaṃ sarvamukhāni daṃṣṭrākarālavadanāni
trinetrāṇi jvalitordhvapiṅgalakeśāni, saroṣāṃ kharvalambodarīṃ
pīnonnatapayodharāṃ vyāghracarmanivasanāṃ dakṣiṇadvādaśabhujeṣu
khaḍga-vajra-cakra-raktacchaṭā-aṅkuśa-śara-śakti-mudgara-
musala-kartri-ḍamaru-akṣamālikāṃ ca vāmadvādaśabhujeṣu dhanuḥ-
pāśa-tarjanī-patākā-gadā-triśūla-caṣaka-utpala-ghaṇṭā-
paraśu-brahmaśiraḥ-kapālaṃ ca -
suprahṛṣṭāṃ śavārūḍhāṃ nāgāṣṭakavibhūṣitām /
navayauvanasampannāṃ hāhāḍḍahāsabhāsurām /
piṅgograikajaṭāṃ dhyāyāt maulāvakṣobhyabhūṣitām //

There is Muttering, a Four Elements or Mahabhut mandala, Jnana chakra, something that appears to be crystal, and samaya chakra:

oṃ āḥ huṃ kāyavākcittādhiṣṭhānaṃ kuryāt / oṃ
hrīṃ trīṃ huṃ vāyuvaruṇamahendrāgnimaṇḍaleṣu bījaṃ yathopadeśataḥ
evambhūto bhagavatyātmako mantrī punar gaganakuhare
jñānacakram ākṛṣyāgrataḥ sphuṭīkṛtyāvalīya svasamayacakre
praveśayet / praveśya ekīkṛtya devatāhaṅkāramudvahamānaḥ
svakāyavinirgataraśmisamūhaṃ tathāgatabodhisattvavidyādevatīkrodhādibhiḥ
pañcāmṛtaparipūtṇakalaśajalair abhiṣicyamānaṃ
vividhapūjāviśeṣaiḥ saṃpūjayet ātmānaṃ bhāvayet /

This is her pattern for Nyasa:

uṣṇīṣe huṃ lalāṭe oṃ kaṇṭhe āḥ hṛdi hrīṃ nābhau trīṃ nābhitale
huṃ guhye trāṃ pādayoḥ aṃ aḥ phaṭ svāhā ity aṅganyāsaḥ /

evaṃ samayī bhūtvā 'nena vidhinā yānyeva mantrākṣarāṇyuccāryante
tāni devatīmukhānnirgatāni saraśmikāni svamukhaṃ
praveśya kuliśamārgeṇa niścārya devīpadmapraviṣṭāni punar
devīmukhāt svamukham anena krameṇāvicchinnaṃ mantram āvartayet /
evam ākhedaparyantaṃ parijapya tataḥ svahṛdaye raśmipuñjākāraṃ
krameṇa dīpaśikheva yāvad anupalabdhikaṃ kuryāt / yathoktāṃ
utpalamudrāṃ baddhvā śirasi lalāṭakaṇṭhanābhinābhitalaguhyapādadvayeṣu
vinyasya mantraṃ japed animittayogena / tatrāyaṃ
mantraḥ - oṃ hrīṃ trīṃ huṃ phaṭ mūlamantraḥ, oṃ hrīṃ trīṃ huṃ
huṃ phaṭ svāhā hṛdayamantraḥ, oṃ hrīṃ trīṃ huṃ upahṛdayamantraḥ /


evaṃ vicintya dṛḍhīkṛtyātmānaṃ bhāvayet / athavā
paṭagatāṃ bhagavatīṃ bhāvayet / pūrvasevālakṣaṃ japet /
daśāṃśena homaṃ kuryāt / śrīphalapuṣpaṃ patraṃ vā śvetārkapuṣpaṃ
śvetakaravīrapuṣpaṃ vā gavyaghṛtena homaṃ kuryāt / yathāvidhinā
paṭaṃ likhāpayitvā pūjādhyānajāpaṃ kuryāt / pañcānantaryakāriṇo
'pi koṭijāpena sidhyati /

Then there is a process that installs Vajra Anala (Nayasa, achieved or attached), which is the proper name of Indra's Flaming Thunderbolt, and Two arm Red Vajrayogini:

sarvabhāvaniḥsvabhāvaṃ kṛtvā jhaṭiti hṛdi kamalaṃ kamalopari raviśaśimadhye
raktahuṃkāraṃ sūkṣmarūpaṃ vālāgrasahasrabhāgaṃ bindurūpaṃ huṃkārānvitaṃ
vajranalanāsāyāṃ dhyāyāt / huṃkārodbhavāṃ vajrayoginīṃ
raktavarṇāṃ dvibhujaikamukhāṃ trinetrāṃ nagnāṃ muktakeśāṃ
lalitakrodhāṃ ṣaṇmudropetāṃ dharmodayāntargatāṃ śavākrāntāṃ
adhaūrdhvapādasthitāṃ kartrikapāladharāṃ saroṣāṃ bhāvayed aharniśam /

// vidyujjvālākarālīnāmaikajaṭāsādhanaṃ samāptam //


That is a bit bizarre, it just cuts off when you have Vajrayogini with Kartri and Skullcup. There did not seem to be anything for Blaze in the original mandala (usually Vajra Jvala). I think there was a Jvalanala aspect of Shiva; Anala per se is an epithet of Agni, and:

Anala (अनल) is the name of a Kṣetrapāla (field-protector) and together with Ambikā Devī they preside over Virajā: one of the twenty-four sacred districts mentioned in the 9th century Vajraḍākatantra (chapter 18). Their weapon is the mudrā and paṭṭiśa and their abode is the āmra-tree. A similar system appears in the tradition of Hindu Tantrims, i.e., in the Kubjikāmatatantra (chapter 22), which belongs to the Śākta sect or Śaivism.

The Vajrayogini is an Urdhva Pada, i. e. raised foot, which is Maitri Dakini or Akasha Dhatvishvari. So far, that is the closest answer to what lightning brings or who its inner nature is, or how it is applied in practice.

This significant finding is concealed from the thangka which might trouble us if Vajradhatvishvari has the right arms or Picuva has the right faces. It simply reinforces the idea that various sadhanas work together, instead of showing the particulars of this one.




Ekajati is undeniably similar to Mahacina and Nairatma. The whole thing seems to be Mahacina Krama or Ekajati Amnaya, although I am not sure if anything says these are flatly equivalent. Still, in terms of Vajra Panjara Tantra, we can find some undescribed Vajravali relationships that I think have at least two Nairatmas related to Vajra Tara, who is an Outer Activity of the Panjara.

Nairatma with Vajra Tara lower right:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/3/0/5/30519.jpg






"Unidentified Deity"--same thing:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/8/9/58945.jpg

[shaberon]

Kalaratrim Karalimka Divyam Vidyutamala Vibhusitam

[of] Kalaratri lolling mouth celestial chain of lightning adorned

or something like that.

That explains why the previous post is also called Laughing Ekajati--if karali is not interpreted as a proper name, it could describe the mouth. Or even if it is a proper name, it would still associate Kalaratri with Ekajati.

Yes I think lightning is Kalaratri's eyes as well as her jewelry.

That is interesting that "Breeze" would still the breath. Yoga is like that. You focus on breathing until some day there is nothing.

The Hindu deities seem to say:

Krim (https://www.vedanet.com/mantra-yoga-primal-sound/) is Kali as Kriya Shakti or Vaidyut Shakti.

"Kali holds the vidyut shakti, the lightning or electrical force of consciousness that is the supreme power. All the Goddesses and the entire universe manifests from her indomitable will. Kali’s seed mantra is “kreem,” which is the kriya shakti or power of transformation behind the vast movement of life.

Kali is not the Goddess of death and destruction as some see her but, on the contrary, represents the complete victory of the Divine over all death and destruction. Her warrior Goddess form removes all the illusions of the mind and reveals the undying presence of our inmost Self that is one with all."

Or, Cinnamasta (https://www.sivasakti.com/tantra/dasa-maha-vidya/chinnamasta-5/) is Vidyut Shakti. Ramakrishna (https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2020/3/31/Chhinnamasta-The-consciousness-beyond-the-mind.html) says Kali is it generally, and Cinnamasta is the lightning of insight. Cinnamasta as Vidyut Shakti is Vajra Vairocani (https://amritananda-natha-saraswati.blogspot.com/2016/04/chinnamasta_15.html) (being considered the Shakti of Indra).

According to Shiva (https://books.google.com/books?id=w5SMCgAAQBAJ&lpg=PT178&ots=rMkA1K6Lyb&dq=vidyut%20shakti%20devi&pg=PT178#v=onepage&q=vidyut%20shakti%20devi&f=false), Serpents are Vidyut Shakti.

In Devi terms, one could almost say Ekajati, Kalaratri, Kali, or Cinnamasta "holds" the lightning which "is" Vairocani as an illuminating flash similar to Marici.

Vairocani is a type of Vajrayogini, so, the way Laughing Ekajati expresses it, catches both sides of whether it belongs to a dark goddess or a shiny one. Ekajati produces a red one, which is not Vairocani's color, whereas Varuni produces Vairocani. If either one of these is a Vajrayogini, either could be interpreted as Lightning Yogini. There is leeway towards this since Vajra rarely means anyone is in Vajra Family, it usually means they hold Vajra as their main item.

Since the Vajra is Rainbow Light, and, also, Lightning or electricity, if both manifest in one's subtle body and seem to be related, perhaps it is working as intended.

Vairocani is a "daughter" like Samjna, Savitri, and Marici.

Whatever Indra's weapon is, Tvastr gave it to him:

Tvastr, the Shaper, represents the craftsmanship through which weapons
are produced ( Atharva Veda 12.S.SS). The Shaper is therefore an essential
aspect of security and progress. As a divinized power he is the craftsman who
made the thunderbolt and the chalice of soma. Representing an art that originally
belonged to pre-Aryan India, he appears as an antigod, an asura, but he is also
one of the ancestors of the human race. He keeps in his house the ambrosia
(soma) that the warrior Might (Indra) comes to drink. Might, to take away
his cows, killed the Shaper's son Triple-Head (TriSiras), whose form was the
universe (visvarupa). Angered, the Shaper forbade Might to enter his house
but Might was able to take away forcibly the beverage of immortality.

The Shaper carries an iron ax. He forges the thunderbolts of Indra. He
is a beautiful, skillful worker, and also the bestower of long life and prosperity.
He imparts generative power. He shapes husband and wife for each other. He
develops the seminal germ in the womb, and fashions all forms, human and
animal. He has produced and nourished a great variety of creatures ( Satapatha
Brahmaria). The Shaper created the lord-of-the-great (Brahmapaspati) and
the lord-of-fire (Agni), along with Heaven, Earth, the Waters, and the Cracks-
of-the-Ritual-Fire (Bhrgus). He is associated with the celestial craftsmen, the
Rbhus, and is represented as sometimes envying and sometimes admiring their
skill.

The Shaper has a daughter. Cloud (Saranyu), whom he married to Tribal-
Law (Vivasvat). Their offspring were the gods of agriculture, the ASvins.
(Pg Veda 10.17.1-2.)

According to Brakmanda Parana (s. 1.86-87) he has three sons,
Triple-Head (TriSiras), World-Shape (ViSva-rupa), and World-Builder
(ViSva-karman), the former two by Fame (YaSodhara) and the last by Daugh-
ter-of-Brightness (Vairocani). Triple Head and World Shape are sometimes
considered one person. In the Puranas the Shaper is identified with the world's-
builder or architect (ViSva-karman) and sometimes also with the lord-of-
progeny (Prajapati).

So we note Visvakarman's place, he may be his own father, and is the one who turns Surya on the lathe.

[Old Student]

The Bhutanese Drukpa version based on Sadhanamala for some reason includes single instances of Cunda and Janguli:

This one is amazing.


Ekajati is undeniably similar to Mahacina and Nairatma. The whole thing seems to be Mahacina Krama or Ekajati Amnaya, although I am not sure if anything says these are flatly equivalent. Still, in terms of Vajra Panjara Tantra, we can find some undescribed Vajravali relationships that I think have at least two Nairatmas related to Vajra Tara, who is an Outer Activity of the Panjara.

If this were true, it would certainly explain why Ekajati and Nairatmya have been indistinct with me.


And the lightning we are discussing, Vidyujjvala Karali Ekajati:

So things that argue for this version of lightning -- it's lightning against a blue-black body. It's Ekajati, who with me seems to enable or move flows. It's aligned somehow with Nairatmya, which is both corresponding to something I had felt ("destroyer of souls"), and corresponds to the vast emptiness that happens when the world as me starts up.

Things that argue against: Not enough lightning. I've looked at these thangkas, I've gone through my memories of Hollywood CGI and other depictions, artistic on Pinterest etc., and the sheer quantity of lightning seems to be missing. I think maybe this might be because of it not looking like lightning if there's too much?

[Old Student]

Krim is Kali as Kriya Shakti or Vaidyut Shakti.

"Kali holds the vidyut shakti, the lightning or electrical force of consciousness that is the supreme power. All the Goddesses and the entire universe manifests from her indomitable will. Kali’s seed mantra is “kreem,” which is the kriya shakti or power of transformation behind the vast movement of life.

Kali is not the Goddess of death and destruction as some see her but, on the contrary, represents the complete victory of the Divine over all death and destruction. Her warrior Goddess form removes all the illusions of the mind and reveals the undying presence of our inmost Self that is one with all."

Or, Cinnamasta is Vidyut Shakti. Ramakrishna says Kali is it generally, and Cinnamasta is the lightning of insight. Cinnamasta as Vidyut Shakti is Vajra Vairocani (being considered the Shakti of Indra).

According to Shiva, Serpents are Vidyut Shakti.

Thanks for putting all this together this way. Truth be told, I had already read and discarded some of your links for a very silly reason: I was discarding things that were written by Westerners who were extolling "vidyut shakti", and discarded where I should have read. The thing is, "vidyut shakti" in common parlance is "electrical power" like, say, what you get from the electric company. So I thought maybe some people had their wires crossed (no pun intended).

But reading through them, there is a lot that sounds very on point in the discussion of the Krim bija mantra, especially at the end when the author warns about the power of adding Hum to it, and relation to Chhinnamasta's bija being Hum.

The descriptions in these terms (both your Chhinnamasta link and your Ramkrishna and Vajra Vairocani links) begin to come closer to my experiences than the thangkas have seemed to. In particular, the notion of a progression from Kali to Chhinnamasta to Vajra Vairocani (Terror to super terror to the lightning itself), makes a progression about insight and about the lightning from starting over a dark body to more works well with what has been happening.


Since the Vajra is Rainbow Light, and, also, Lightning or electricity, if both manifest in one's subtle body and seem to be related, perhaps it is working as intended.

Vairocani is a "daughter" like Samjna, Savitri, and Marici.

Okay, so something that is perhaps wielded by a totally dark being but becomes something full of rainbows and covered in lightning by forgetting about a head (or maybe severing it) to produce something like an instant brightening really fits well with something from last night.

This is from my last night's notes, the context is that the "We" at the beginning of the first paragraph is me outside looking in (I am also inside looking down), plus the Dakinis already assembled, after "discussing" my inability apparently to do what comes next, which I did not know they'd been trying to do. The liquid is bliss amassing in my lower abdomen the lightning is arcing through my ribcage which is transparent, my (clear) body is at this point dark "almost black" like a night sky:


We were looking at the liquid and the lightning. They grabbed my centerline – they grabbed me – and threw me into the liquid and sparks – they threw me into me. They threw silent, breeze, no breathing, listening me, but also centerline, pillar of all souls, rainbows, clouds, dreams, earth, streams me, into world of lightning streaked sky and hot orange sparks cauldron of rainbow bliss mountains, ice choked streams, jewel at throat me. Just took a hand and grabbed me and threw me into me. My whole body went into what I’ve before called the superhero pose [the position superheroes make when they come to a stop in the air] – arms halfway out and down and back, chest forward, legs straight, and in this case my whole upper torso up off the bed – so that is the positioning, the rest of it is that I was completely filled with, or maybe made of, rainbow bliss liquid/mist inside – any temporary spaces caused by swirling were deep blue-black – and the sparks from my chest had completely covered all of me, so that I looked from a separated point of view, which I could see as well, still, like I was completely shining and shimmering as if completely made of lightning. The rest of sensations-wise, there was a humming/buzzing/twanging that was sparks sputtering and some kind of low musical note, and my entire body was engulfed in a sensation of bliss that I haven’t experienced before, sort of a full-body orgasm on steroids, that was continuous. The last detail which is both baffling and crazy is that this state started, this pose and this feeling and being completely rainbow and lightning, at approximately 3:30am. I had one shift in position, and that was to release the superhero pose in favor of a Vitruvian Man pose at 4:15am. The continuous lightning covered rainbow total bliss state ended at 5:20am. So, well, I was a lightning-covered rainbow mist/liquid being with no thoughts except for bliss for almost two hours, the first hour of which was with most of my torso raised off the bed and perfectly straight and my arms pushed back and my chest pushed out.


I do have to mention that I do not know how often they had tried to do this before, since I believe but am not sure, that it might have been nights when I was obviously doing many of the shaking movements they had taught while I slept, which I had always interpreted as being a passive very long exercise session before.

I did not have any shaking prior that had to do with my head or anything there, in that sense Chhinnamasta is a good metaphor, but at least once when I was seeing from outside, I did see a head on my shoulders, rainbow covered in sparks like the rest of me.

[shaberon]

So things that argue for this version of lightning -- it's lightning against a blue-black body. It's Ekajati, who with me seems to enable or move flows. It's aligned somehow with Nairatmya, which is both corresponding to something I had felt ("destroyer of souls"), and corresponds to the vast emptiness that happens when the world as me starts up.

Things that argue against: Not enough lightning. I've looked at these thangkas, I've gone through my memories of Hollywood CGI and other depictions, artistic on Pinterest etc., and the sheer quantity of lightning seems to be missing. I think maybe this might be because of it not looking like lightning if there's too much?


No, there is not much of a sadhana so far that depicts efflorescence of lightning.

Many of them speak of fire or a burst of Rasmi or Rays.

Some of this is a bit murky owing to the possible meanings of Vajra versus the fairly specific meaning of Vidyut, and whether Water or Ocean Fire is accurate for electricity. The way that I am sure it is talked about in a spiritual sense is Agni.

Indra is called vajrahasta , but never vidyut - hasta. He is not a storm god (Marut). Whatever is going on with Tvastr concerns the Heaven of Thirty-three or second plane in Kama Loka, which is the last threshhold that has anything to do with the physical world.

So on one side, there is a point that Vajra is not Vidyut (https://jayarava.blogspot.com/2020/01/diamonds-thunderbolts-and-impossibility.html).

On the other side, the phrase, Vajra Vidyut (https://books.google.com/books?id=PIeBCwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA93&ots=El_qbH3EjY&dq=vajra%20vidyut&pg=PA93#v=onepage&q=vajra%20vidyut&f=false) is a kundalini technique.

The Rigveda often says that Agni arises from water or dwells in the waters. He may have originally been the same as Apam Napat, who is also sometimes described as fire arising from water which in a natural explanation may have referred to flames from natural gas or oil seepages surfacing through water, or as the seven rays or bands of light of a rainbow.

Agni's origin in Aerial Waters (https://www.academia.edu/8070932/Agni_the_vedic_god) is a prominent theme in Rg Veda.

Agni is not really different from the descent or generations of Agni, and his first son is electricity, whose name is Pavaka, although this is a plane above terrestrial lightning.

In the Vedic (https://www.vedanet.com/suffering-and-awakening/) view:

Suffering can connect us to a special purifying form of Agni or the yogic fire, the Agni Pavaka of the vedas.

The practice maintains Three Fires which are used for various oblations and sacrifices, so, if we do an Inner Homa, it would make use of this. Nityagni says:

"For all general-purpose homas, sadhaka must invoke “Pavaka agni” into a square homa kunda.

Purascharana homa – A homa performed to bring “Chaitanya” (Shakti) to the presiding mantra deity within ones consciousness.

A Sadhaka/upasaka performs purascharana process for attaining the mantra siddhi of a desired deity. In kaliyuga, one must perform multiple Purascharanas (atleast 4 times) to receive the siddhi of mantra. After Siddhi, the mantra-deity (created by the energy of sadhana) becomes an individual god for Sadhaka."

Agni is the beginning of Rg Veda, he arises in water, and Pavaka, which simply means "The Purifier", is held in high esteem. To mark this, Nairatma 228 uses "Pavaka" for the name of Agni's corner, which is the only instance of it in Sadhanamala.

Nath (http://indiafacts.org/nath-siddhacharyas-sabar-tantra/) awaken kundalini at the navel and say pavaki is a nadi.

Sarasvati (https://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/saraswati/) is also called pavaka--the one who purifies and brings rainfall.

At the creation of that Maha Devi who slew Mahish Asura, "Pavaka created all her three eyes, both the ‘Sandhyas’ gave away ‘bhrukutis’ (mid-portion of eye brows).

Krishna refers to himseld as "Among the Vasus, I am Pavaka (Agni or Anala)".

Pavaka is so important or so close to Agni, they are just about considered the same in a spiritual sense.



Agni's wife is Svaha which comes from Su Ah, with visarga so it is chanted aha, su aha or bliss and syllable of making it reside. Here is a bit on Svaha (https://books.google.com/books?id=zrk0AwAAQBAJ&lpg=PT1197&ots=n__DM37WQp&dq=pavaka%20shakti&pg=PT1197#v=onepage&q=pavaka%20shakti&f=false) and alternate names for the three sons. If Agni has something in terms of a Shakti, we already use her all the time. And again she looks like an arc of electricity, not from the physical plane, but from another world through the physical one.

According to Wiki from Devi Mahatmya,

"Svaha is also found in the hymns of the Vedic literature, in the sense of "welcome, praise to you". This salutation is a remembrance of Agni, as an aspect of that which is "the source of all beings". As a goddess and wife of Agni, Svaha represents this Shakti."

The source is electro-magnetic, the "true face of the sun" or corona, which itself is not really the source but the reflection from the Central Sun.

In the descent of Agni, the actual Ocean Fire is Vadava or Horse's Mouth in the ocean floor, which is considered a volcanic force which will help annihilate the planet at the end of time for our race. And so it could be symbolic for the end of metaphysical Time as discussed in Yoga by shifting perception from time to non-time. There are a few places where we find sadhanas refer to the fire at pralaya. You could perhaps say Nairatma hits the ego with it. Overall, it has a few expressions, Koothoomi says that Hercules will shift so the Central Sun gives us a direct shot of its power; and this reflects off Ananta, who supports the world, and he starts spewing venom everywhere, and the calamity goes on to oceans erupting and so forth.

The bond, Samaya, also has the meaning of time, as well as dignity, or Lajja. This suggests Lajja Gauri, who would be the first Gauri or as referred to in the Lakshmi Tantra, is one of the permanent Shaktis.Gauri Mahamaya produces Abhimati; i. e. Abhiman Agni is self-existent in Mahamaya, as the vibration in the egg, when Vishnu is sleeping. Abhiman is the origin of Vaisvanara, i. e. Agni ignites and expands Divine Consciousness.

Gauri seems to become involved when we have Jnanagni, which is already defined as a substratum for tantric success.

Lajja means modesty and shame simultaneously, it is a term we use for Samaya, because it is a delicate bond which we face shame if we abrade it. Lajja Gauri is normally shown naked in a squatting position, but does not appear pregnant. Instead, she has no head, with a lotus covering the stump.

This has been said that because of a ruse, Parvati was making love to someone else, who turned back into Shiva, and she was so shocked and embarrassed her head fell off.

Kriya Shakti is Action, and ultimately the power to manifest thought-forms. Kriya Shakti is alternately Gauri or Kali, depending on the classification, and lightning is within this domain. I am unable to come up with anything more specific than someone willing to equate Vairocani with the Vidyut Shakti of Cinnamasta.

Your experience could perhaps also mean the Marut Ganas, or i. e. the Air and storm kingdom in the subtle body. If so I think that is actually considered the highest kingdom in Yaksha realm.

It is a bit strange that...despite having Pavaka in essentially the most exalted position since the beginning of written history, there are few details about electricity.

[shaberon]

The Cinnamasta version we keep finding from David Frawley is the lineage of Ganapati Muni, who was an associate of Ramana Maharishi. They say Vairocani is Indrani. I am not sure where they got this. Indrani (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/indrani) is an office that may be held by Saci or someone else.

When we traced her in the Puranas, I do not recall her being Indrani.

The original definition of Vairocani was a form of Durga displayed at Tapas::

Although we do not find mention of goddess
Durga in the Rg Veda, Her name occurred for
the first time as Ambika in the Taittiriya
Aranyaka as the consort of Rudra. She has been
mentioned as Durga Vairocani, Katyayani and
Kanyakumari in the same work also.

It is hard to say how Vairocani and/or lightning became attached to Indra. The Ekajati sadhana I believe is absolved of Indra, and we are forced to figure out what is a Vajra Anala on our own.

However, in looking around, we may find other names for lightning, such as Damini. It has scores (https://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?mode=3&tran_input=lightning&script=hk&anz=100&direct=au) of synonyms, most of which are unrecognizable to me, except perhaps Airavata. The male version is Indra's elephant; Airavati (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/airavati) is a yogini, "aira" potentially meaning water, so, "Born of water", which has a possible interpretation as lightning. This is also because it is understood as due to friction (https://books.google.com/books?id=v-WdjS-YkJ8C&lpg=PA92&ots=Ns8AAU_syt&dq=airavati%20lightning&pg=PA92#v=onepage&q=airavati%20lightning&f=false) from the sun. In Telugu (http://telugudictionary.telugupedia.com/telugu_english.php?id=3356), airavati would be taken as Indra's bolt.

A less-favorable synonym is Acirabhasa "momentary light", which would differentiate it from the nervous current of a human being.



Also, Elizabeth English says in the Cemeteries, the Clouds in the cardinal directions are lightning clouds; the alternate directions have rain.


Kundalini Yoga mentions lightning in the Bindu--although after that, the stories change as to whether it is a simple experience, or various degrees of further growth:

Once piercing all six cakras (this is known as the sat-cakra-bheda), the Kundalini energy reaches the sahasrara, her ultimate destination. It is said that on the center of the sahasrara lotus shines the full moon, within which rests a triangle of lightning containing the most secret bindu. All gods worship this hidden bindu and it is said to be the basis of moksa (Thakur 160-61). Some yogis maintain, however, that after reaching the sahasrara, the energy returns to the muladhara (Fic 34). Some also say that Kundalini needs to pierce only three cakras, the muladhara, anahata, and ajna, to reach the sahasrara (Kapoor et al 1074). There are many different descriptions of the events that take place once Kundalini reaches the sahasrara. Some describe it as a very simple experience, whereby the yogi reaches a full understanding of the self, then returns to his or her normal life and repeats the procedure often to maintain control of the energy (Fic 36). Others describe a much more complex occurrence starting with the yogi perceiving the “inner sounds” – sounds that start like a roaring ocean, becoming progressively quieter until they are like a bee, and finally the nada, or “unmanifested” sound (Kapoor et al 1074). Often, the yogi is said to see a taraka; that is, a small, intensely bright light resting between and in front of the eyebrows (Bharati 265).

Although Buddhism does not use those methods, the Bindu, Nada, and Taraka must be close to the same.

There is one mention of Vairocani as consort of Heruka on p. 150 (https://selfdefinition.org/tantra/Dasgupta-An-Introduction-to-Tantric-Buddhism.pdf). in Tantric Buddhism.


Agni may be electricity, the fire of digestion, and various impelling energies which may illuminate the mind, which is the Rider on the Winds.

The importance of the Maruts is that Prana is Life Wind, which is Air, Vayu and the Maruts.

HPB was able to at least get us to the intricate way in which Indra formed the Maruts, which is considered the basis of the septenary scale. You at least get some sense of the arc of descent, and the re-appearance of Rudra, which should cause tantra to start making sense, the subjugation of Rudra--Maheshvara being central to it:


"In the Rig and other Vedas, the Maruts are represented as the storm gods and the friends and allies of Indra; they are the “Sons of heaven and of earth.” This led to an allegory that makes them the children of Siva, the great patron of the Yogis, “the Maha-Yogi, the great ascetic, in whom is centred the highest perfection of austere penance and abstract meditation, by which the most unlimited powers are obtained, marvels and miracles are worked, the highest spiritual knowledge is acquired, and union with the great spirit of the universe is eventually gained.” In the Rig Veda the name Siva is unknown, but the god is called Rudra, which is a word used for Agni, the fire god, the Maruts being called therein his sons. In the Ramayana and the Puranas, their mother, Diti — the sister, or complement of, and a form of Aditi — anxious to obtain a son who would destroy Indra, is told by Kasyapa the Sage, that “if, with thoughts wholly pious and person entirely pure, she carrys the babe in her womb for a hundred years” she will get such a son. But Indra foils her in the design. With his thunderbolt he divides the embryo in her womb into seven portions, and then divides every such portion into seven pieces again, which become the swift-moving deities, the Maruts.* These deities are only another aspect, or a development of the Kumaras, who are Rudras in their patronymic, like many others.†

Diti, being Aditi, unless the contrary is proven to us, Aditi, we say, or Akasa in her highest form, is the Egyptian seven-fold heaven. Every true Occultist will understand what this means. Diti, we repeat, is the sixth

Footnote(s) ———————————————
* In the Ramayana it is Bala-Rama, Krishna’s elder brother, who does it.

† With regard to the origin of Rudra, it is stated in several Puranas that his (spiritual) progeny, created in him by Brahma, was not confined to either the seven Kumaras or the eleven Rudras, etc., but “comprehends infinite numbers of beings in person and equipments like their (virgin) father. Alarmed at their fierceness, numbers, and immortality, Brahma desires his son Rudra to form creatures of a different and mortal nature.” Rudra refusing to create, desists, etc., hence Rudra is the first rebel. (Linga, Vayu, Matsya, and other Puranas.)




Vol. 2, Page 614 THE SECRET DOCTRINE.
principle of metaphysical nature, the Buddhi of Akasa. Diti, the mother of the Maruts, is one of her terrestrial forms, made to represent, at one and the same time, the divine Soul in the ascetic, and the divine aspirations of mystic Humanity toward deliverance from the webs of Maya, and final bliss in consequence. Indra, now degraded, because of the Kali Yuga, when such aspirations are no more general but have become abnormal through a general spread of Ahamkara (the feeling of Egotism, Self, or I-am-ness) and ignorance — was, in the beginning, one of the greatest gods of the Hindu Pantheon, as the Rig Veda shows. Sura-dhipa, “the chief of the gods,” has fallen down from Jishnu, “the leader of the celestial host,” — the Hindu St. Michael — to an opponent of asceticism, the enemy of every holy aspiration. He is shown married to Aindri (Indrani), the personification of Aindri-yaka, the evolution of the element of senses, whom he married “because of her voluptuous attractions”; after which he began sending celestial female demons to excite the passions of holy men, Yogis, and “to beguile them from the potent penances which he dreaded.” Therefore, Indra, now characterized as “the god of the firmament, the personified atmosphere” — is in reality the cosmic principle Mahat, and the fifth human — Manas in its dual aspect: as connected with Buddhi; and as allowing himself to be dragged down by his Kama-principle (the body of passions and desires). This is demonstrated by Brahma telling the conquered god that his frequent defeats were due to Karma, and were a punishment for his licentiousness, and the seduction of various nymphs. It is in this latter character that he seeks, to save himself from destruction, to destroy the coming “babe” destined to conquer him: — the babe, of course, allegorizing the divine and steady will of the Yogi — determined to resist all such temptations, and thus destroy the passions within his earthly personality. Indra succeeds again, because flesh conquers spirit — (Diti is shown frustrated in the Dvapara Yug, during that period when the Fourth Race was flourishing). He divides the “Embryo” (of new divine adeptship, begotten once more by the Ascetics of the Aryan Fifth Race), into seven portions — a reference not alone to the seven sub-races of the new Root-Race, in each of which there will be a “Manu,”* but also to the seven degrees of adeptship — and then each

Footnote(s) ———————————————
* Notwithstanding the terrible, and evidently purposed, confusion of Manus, Rishis, and their progeny in the Puranas, one thing is made clear: there have been and there will be seven Rishis in every Root-Race (called also Manvantara in the sacred books) as there are fourteen Manus in every Round, the “presiding gods, the Rishis and Sons of the Manus” being identical. (See Book III. ch. 1 of Vishnu Purana.) “Six” Manvantaras are given, the Seventh being our own in the Vishnu Purana. The Vayu Purana furnishes the nomenclature of the Sons of the fourteen Manus in every Manvantara, and the Sons of the seven Sages or Rishis. The latter are the progeny [[Footnote continued on next page]]




Vol. 2, Page 615 THE DOOM OF CONTINUAL REBIRTH.
portion into seven pieces — alluding to the Manu-Rishis of each Root-Race, and even sub-race."

She says the former Maruts are liberated yogis, i. e. Nirmanakaya or Vairajas.

"...And he also knows that the Maruts are Rudras, among whom also the family of Twashtri, a synonym of Visvakarman — the great patron of the Initiates — is included. This gives us an ample knowledge of their true nature.

Again, number seven is closely connected with the occult significance of the Pleiades, those seven daughters of Atlas, “the six present, the




Vol. 2, Page 619 THE CYCLE OF THE NAROS.
seventh hidden.” In India they are connected with their nursling, the war god, Karttikeya. It is the Pleiades (in Sanskrit, Krittika) who gave the god their name, for Karttikeya is the planet Mars, astronomically. As a god he is the son of Rudra, born without the intervention of a woman. He is a Kumara, a “virgin youth” again, generated in the fire from the Seed of Siva — the holy spirit — hence called Agni-bhu. The late Dr. Kenealy believed that, in India, Karttikeya is the secret symbol of the cycle of Naros, composed of 600, 666, and 777 years, according to whether it is solar or lunar, divine or mortal, years that are counted; and the six visible, or the seven actual sisters, the Pleiades, are needed for the completion of this most secret and mysterious of all the astronomical and religious symbols. Therefore, when made to commemorate one particular event, Karttikeya appeared, of old, as a Kumara, an ascetic, with six heads — one for each century of the Naros. When the symbolism was needed for another event, then, in conjunction with the seven sidereal sisters, Karttikeya is seen accompanied by Kaumara (or Sena) his female aspect. He is then riding on a peacock — the bird of Wisdom and Occult Knowledge, and the Hindu Phoenix, whose Greek relation with the 600 years of Naros is well-known. A six-rayed star (double triangle) a Swastica, a six and occasionally seven-pointed crown is on his brow; the peacock’s tail represents the sidereal heavens; and the twelve signs of the Zodiac are hidden on his body; for which he is also called Dwadasa Kara,” (“the twelve-handed”), and Dwadasaksha, “twelve-eyed.” It is as Sakti-dhara, however, the “Spear-holder,” and the conqueror of Taraka, “Taraka-jit,” that he is shown most famous."

[Old Student]

So on one side, there is a point that Vajra is not Vidyut.

On the other side, the phrase, Vajra Vidyut is a kundalini technique.

I was aware that Vajra is not Vidyut. Vajra in its earliest is an ancient Persian term for precisely the weapon held by all the deities, the pronged short handled weapon, pronged on both ends. It became associated with thunderbolts because that was the weapon that was mythologized to deliver thunderbolts by Indra, the way the hammer is for Thor and the spear is for Zeus.

However, if the vidyut is what issues from the vajra and the vajra is rainbow-colored as you had mentioned, it is very similar to the pairs (I had called them micro-pairs in my notes) in my shaking which were the points of generation of (usually) bliss or energy of some kind, like the cloud-dew drop bonded to the spark as the instance of creation of the fire that was in my lower abdomen, which was the first pair I noticed and then went on to find others.


Kriya Shakti is Action, and ultimately the power to manifest thought-forms. Kriya Shakti is alternately Gauri or Kali, depending on the classification, and lightning is within this domain. I am unable to come up with anything more specific than someone willing to equate Vairocani with the Vidyut Shakti of Cinnamasta.

I did find one other instance of a lightning, it's pretty tenuous, but you had mentioned something of it before, having to do with a kīla or phurba. I tried to find possible connections with specific Dakinis and lightning and one comes up: Yeshe Tsogyal defeating the Bon priests calls up the aid of the Translators, one of whom is Landro Konchok Jungnen who makes lightning bolts come out of his fingers. He had earlier been tasked by Padmasambhava with learning the Hayagriva and Black Secret Hayagriva sadhanas as his training. So I found that the phurba is the main artifact held by the latter and is thought of as having the ability to produce lightning, to the point that physical phurbas were often kept in "houses" that were placed where they would be exposed to lightning bolts.

Not sure it's that meaningful but it was interesting.

[Old Student]

Diti, the mother of the Maruts, is one of her terrestrial forms, made to represent, at one and the same time, the divine Soul in the ascetic, and the divine aspirations of mystic Humanity toward deliverance from the webs of Maya, and final bliss in consequence. Indra, now degraded, because of the Kali Yuga...

I know that this kind of lowering of expectations in the Kali Yug are pervasive, and some thread of them came from the generation of the Kalachakra with the beginning of the destruction of a prior Buddhist world, but I can't help thinking they mix in some preservation of the priestly class in some systems. The Keeney's had some theories that this happens when people need to preserve place in the face of challenge from more "innate" spirituality aligned with shamanism and related things.


He is shown married to Aindri (Indrani), the personification of Aindri-yaka, the evolution of the element of senses, whom he married “because of her voluptuous attractions”; after which he began sending celestial female demons to excite the passions of holy men, Yogis, and “to beguile them from the potent penances which he dreaded.”

This is the other theme, that "exciting passions" distracts holy men. Tantra in its entirety might dispute that.

My biggest problem with some of the things about Vajra Vairocani, about Chhinnamasta and others is that they seem focused on the Ajna chakra, which in my own case (the experience I copied in above from the night before last), was significantly missing from the mix. It may be I find this piece later, I don't know. I did find the place where the Dakinis grabbed my centerline this morning. I had almost no shaking last night except for that this one place was "lit up". I tried to extend some kind of nervous control to it, it is extremely difficult, but the two times I "touched" it for less than a second a piece, it extended me into the same posture as the night before. It is deep abdominal. The place that gets "flicked" to feel some connection to the breeze is closer to ajna chakra. But I distiinctly remember that the breeze was part of the me that was thrown in after being grabbed, not part of what it was thrown into. So maybe it's a thing to come.

But is it possible they're just wrong? The Krim and Hum stuff felt completely accurate. The Ajna thing I'm not sure.

[shaberon]

I would say the Ajna-dominant systems are exoteric.

In the theory of Seven Cities of India, Kashi is the ajna, city of learning, associated with Shiva. People still pack in by the thousands to die there. Subba Row--or rather, an anonymous letter to him--suggested that Kashi is really the Heart, and that death at Kashi was symbolic for the eerie calm when the personality is slain and prajna is established.

The ajna, overall, seems more like a pass/fail gate, than something that is extensively cultivated, in Buddhist Yoga anyway. It is real and there are certain truths to it, but, we are using Vairocani differently, as done by Varuni, for Vajrayogini and Chakrasamvara.

It may be possible that karali as the lolling tongue gesture is lightning. Agni is Sapta Jihve or has seven tongues, possibly with Rudra (https://books.google.com/books?id=dZ_5AQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA190&ots=BSOdjYoP2R&dq=karali%20tongue%20lightning&pg=PA190#v=onepage&q=karali%20tongue%20lightning&f=false) as the fire or lightning which the seven tongues are of.

The tongues are named for instance in Mundaka Upanishad (part of Atharva Veda):

Kali (black), Karali (terrific), Manogava (swift as thought), Sulohita (very red), Sudhumravarna (purple/smoke), Sphulingini (sparkling), and the brilliant Visvarupi (having all forms), all these playing about are called the seven tongues (of fire).

The tongues also have purposes like Vasikaran (https://shaktanand.blogspot.com/2017/05/tongues-of-agni.html) and names like Gagana in a system that is almost impenetrable.

[Śuklayajurveda. 17.79]

The Purāṇas have also named these seven tongues of Agni. That tongue of Agni which monitors time is called Kālī (Kali); the one to cause doomsday-like tumult is called Karālī (Karali); the one with the yogic quality of laghimā (laghima; ‘lightness’) is called Manojavā (Manojava); the one to satisfy desires of all creatures is Sulohitā (Sulohita); the one to burn away all the diseases of the world is Sadhumravarṇā (Sadhumravarna); the one to cause the birth of each body and soul is called Sphuliṅgiṇī (Sfulingini); and the one to look after everyone’s welfare is named Viśvā (Vishwa).

Mārkaṇḍeyapurāṇa(99.52-59)

They are part of Purna Ahuti (https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111201091850AABZ8Wg) which most Hindus do not understand, But someone at least replies it is in the head, which, for the Inner Homa, yes.

Of the published names, it is claimed Kali and Karali (https://books.google.com/books?id=vQNnnr0KxGUC&lpg=PA192&ots=3fazVhaOi-&dq=karali%20tongue%20lightning&pg=PA193#v=onepage&q=karali%20tongue%20lightning&f=false) as Durga, evolved from Agni. This gets closer to Buddhist Vairocani.

How you get a tongue of black fire, is, oh, we just saw Picuva Marici do it.

As for the tongue, it is at least related, in a folklorish way, to lightning; Karali literally is a fiery tongue that may be related to lightning or Rudra. And so in the related group with Kalaratri, perhaps their tongues display lightning. In some cases, earrings are said to. These are often "swaying" or Calat, and Cala could be a minor synonym of lightning.

The Vajra item certainly is a compound entity, with a bindu for the junction of two lobes of rainbow light, and, they sometimes emit lightning. It, perhaps, has become imbued with such lightning, since the whole thing has no inherent existence. Kilaya is the same way, just more severe, it is definitely a relevant subject, but, in terms of practice, it is beyond Hayagriva and Yamantaka.

Buddhist Yoga is based in Digestive Fire, and this heat is centered and raised, but then you get a magnetic cooling which instead of heating and frying the brain, turns it into something more like the solar corona. That is what I think the Panca Raksa are saying by moving Sitabani out of Fire and into Air, dissipation of excess heat and display of magnetic force field.

If I try to look at Ekajati's thunderbolt:

sarvabhāvaniḥsvabhāvaṃ kṛtvā jhaṭiti hṛdi kamalaṃ kamalopari raviśaśimadhye
raktahuṃkāraṃ sūkṣmarūpaṃ vālāgrasahasrabhāgaṃ bindurūpaṃ huṃkārānvitaṃ
vajranalanāsāyāṃ dhyāyāt

Kamala is the lotus used; a Red Hum takes the subtle form of thousands of beautifully fine hairs, the bindu Hum is attached as a cause to the thunderbolt or causes it to be finished (sayam). So, I am not sure this is any kind of vajra, or mace, or additional deity, it almost seems more like she strikes a meteorological thunderbolt, which makes the final Vajrayogini.

I could be wrong, but, it sounds more like an action than an item.

Her personal appearance includes:

daṃṣṭrākarālavadanāni

Fangs Karala Vada (mouth)

So she shares the tongue gesture, and as to whether it is part of Agni or it should have its own lightning, I cannot be sure. It is her laughing, or, those things, but it is at least there. However, it is actually rather common, on several deities where it would never occur to us to be electric. It may be different in Ekajati's spawn sequence:

sūryasthahuṃkārodbhavaṃ karālavajraṃ
yavapramāṇaṃ vajramayaṃ raśmivikīrṇaṃ sakalamārasainya-
vināśayamānaṃ vicintayet /

That seems to say, on a sun disk, from Hum is born an item or symbol, Karala Vajra. I cannot reduce that one to a facial expression of any kind. Right now it can only be described as "something".

For Ekajati, my memory was a bit off. It was Sannivarman (https://books.google.com/books?id=DbxE8zOuRbUC&lpg=PA290&ots=oCO3AGgizv&dq=trim%20bija%20ekajati&pg=PA290#v=onepage&q=trim%20bija%20ekajati&f=false) who prayed to Ekajati for protection in order to reach the hill where Arya Tara preaches to the nagas at the base, and Bhrkuti preaches to Yakshas on the slopes.

Mitra Yogin, one of the main transmitters of Seven Syllable deity, relies on Ekajati. In the Tibetan Canon:

14.4.1 Branches of the Doctrine taught by Mitrayogin {R1034-1035}

Mitra's prowess having been firmly established, Gö Lotsawa turns to the more mundane detailing and outlining. The rest of this super-section is an intensive enumeration and schematization of Mitra's teachings. Very briefly:

The branches of the Doctrine taught {R1034} by Mitra were:

the Cycles of the Ordinary Doctrines preached as branches of science,
the Cycle of different practices taught as method of inner meditation,
the Cycles of the Special Doctrine preached as an introduction to hidden initiation.

14.4.1.1 the Cycle of different practices taught as method of inner meditation {R1035}

14.4.2.1 the Sādhana of his tutelary deity the Great Merciful One (Mahākaruṇika)

14.4.2.1.1 twenty mula sādhanas (rtsa ba'i sgrul thabs)

14.4.2.1.2 twenty sādhanas of realization (dngos grub sgrub pa)

14.4.2 Special Cycle and Hidden Blessing (R1039)}

The initiation of bde chen ral gchig (Mahāsukha Ekajati) and the precepts of Avalokiteśvara in 25 Ślokas formed part of the Special Cycle, expounding the Introduction to the Hidden Blessing.

[shaberon]

This electrical topic is fascinating to me, as I have never really raised the issue. The standing question has been more about the sum total of all the fires of Agni, to which electricity is only a sub-set.

We cannot really dispute it should be the main such set, since electric forces regulate everything. Also, we might tend to say, a fetus ceases to be a lump of its mother when an electric pulse starts its heartbeat, and for most intents and purposes, this really is the being and its whole life.

It is a manifestation of invisible voltage, or invisible magnetism, and the Mahatmas were very clear that plasma is the fourth state of matter and followed Dr. Crookes closely. We still do not know the fifth, which is probably Akasha, if correctly understood.

Electricity is under or within Pavaka, possibly in certain combinations. Agni Homa is based in three main fires; Pavaka's square kunda is to the east, the direction you face, the sides being four elements, etc.; when you face this way, then Dakshinagni, or Right Hand Agni, is the fire to the south, considered a shield, and destructive towards hindrances, and so this setup is the real meaning of Right Hand Path.

The alternates or sub-species appear to be Karali and Airavati, whereas is is possible that "Sparks" or Sphulingini makes the overall electric circuit of the body, but as soon as we look, we are confronted by how much of this has to do with Water or friction. In terrestrial manifestation, it is generally said that Noumenal Shaktis, or, the mental roots of physical electricity, are "witnessed later" by heat, light, and moisture, i. e. the components that cause such friction and voltage.

Yoga pretty obviously harnesses bio-electricity, in a way we would say is not inherent to man in an animalized condition, but how similar is this to the "instantaneous" flashes of lightning, which are arguably Minerva-like, such as Marici?

I am still not sure how Sanskrit may describe "continuous current", which would have been far less obvious to ancient peoples than lightning. If power companies grab the phrase "vidyut shakti" for what they do, I am not sure that helps us figure it out.

The "hanging tongue" feature also expresses Srngara or eroticism, but on wrathful deities similar to Kalaratri and Mahacina Tara, it perhaps is closer to electricity. If in some examples, perhaps a hand, vajra, or Ekajati herself, mean instantaneous lightning, then it seems there are other examples which intend a continuous crackling.

The tongue, Karali, is "terrific" as in "terrible", similar to Ugra Tara, who is mantricly identical to Ekajati. Trim (https://www.yogi.press/home/mantra-yoga) is generally considered an evolution of Srim --> Strim --> Trim, it has the similar peaceful basis, but is at once transcendent, and of a fierier nature for setting its conditions, considered Courageous or Fearless. Since "terrible" is Karali's meaning with Agni, for the time being, it may as well be disregarded as to why it is on different kinds of deities.

Cala or calat can refer to any motion or vibration, such as a swarm of bees. Exoterically, Buddhist deities have large, drooping ears, with weighted earrings, showing their intent to listen to beings in the misery of samsara. For some reason, earrings, or kundala, are an item that is a bit more open to being related to electricity.

Calat Kundala is specifically on Vajra Tara several times, in her case, kanaka, golden. Pratisara also has it as the center of the weird Pancha Raksa 206. The word kundala or "coiled" is the same root word for kundalini, so, although this does mean "heavy, swaying earrings, listening to you", it also means a vibrating coiled (potential) force, somehow related to Sound.

It is also on Mars--Subhramanya (https://books.google.com/books?id=-jbBkExkTXUC&lpg=PA31&dq=%22calat%20kundala%22&pg=PA31#v=onepage&q=%22calat%20kundala%22&f=false)--in his Bhujangam (https://sriadishankarastutis.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/SRISUBRAMANYABHUJANGAM-1.pdf).

Lightning motif has also been absorbed by Radha. For her, one must say that as Sahaja became a known, popular tradition, it was backfed to the generally-unused Radha around the 16th century. Red-Yellow Radha (http://nimaipandit.ning.com/profiles/blogs/shri-radharasasudhanidhi-by) and the Gopis refer to lightning five times in different contexts. Krishna (https://sanskritdocuments.org/sites/giirvaani/giirvaani/skka/skka_ch_2.htm), related to Mukunda, peacocks, and Indranila, has yellow garments of lightning.

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto Eight (http://files.krishna.com/en/pdf/e-books/Srimad-Bhagavatam_Canto_08.pdf), in referring to the Supreme Godhead as Ajita, uses lightning earrings, and then among the Apsaras, "Sri Rama" has a lightning appearance, being considered a feminized name there. So this sort of interpretation can at least be found applicable to the Puranas, implying it has been there in the background before the popularization of Radha--Krishna.

Garga Samhita (https://pdfslide.net/documents/garga-samhita-563278f32d287.html) refers to lightning over sixty times with obscure terms like Kulishad. It may be worth sifting, since Garga is one of the most instructive astrologers.


An Amma (http://www.balakendra.org/index.php/en/18-mantras?start=16) page refers to non-lightning and formless fire:

Dharam vipapam paramesma bhutam

yad pundarikam puramadhya sagastham

tatrapi dahram gaganam visokam

tasmin ya dantastatu pasidavyam

Located in the center of the city of the body is the subtle lotus of the heart, pure and untainted, which is the abode of the supreme. Meditate on the supreme being residing in that inner expanse, which is subtle and free from sorrow.

Yo vedadau svara proktah vedante ca pratistitaha

tasya prakriti linasya yah parahssa mahesvaraha

The which is described as the primal sound (om) in the beginning of the vedas, has been fully established as the supreme truth at the end of the Vedas ( the Upanishads) . The one who realizes that Supreme Principle is beyond the pale of those totally immersed in physical realities. Indeed, He is none other than the supreme Lord !

Na tatra suryo bhati na candra tarakam

nema vidyuto bhanti kutoyam agnihi

tameva bhantam anubhati sarvam

tasya bhasa sarvam idam vibhati

There the sun does not shine, nor do the moon and the stars. These streaks of lightning do not shine there either, (so) what to speak of this fire? That, shining, makes all others shine. By virtue of its luminosity, all these (manifestations) are illuminated.

Here again we find Taraka as a "shiny orb", which the sun and moon are not, in this state. How did this suddenly flip from Primordial Sound to some kind of primordial fire or light, called Agni? This kind of thing is what Lakshmi Tantra deals with.

It seems to me that we should hang most of the mystery on Vairocani, who is like the narrow waist of the hourglass. Prior to her is Varuni and all the esoteric Yoga. Past her is Heruka, Varahi, and Cinnamasta. She is Tapas or light made from inner heat, but, when guided to the center and up, she arguably would be required to assume an electro-magnetic character with plasma or lightning, since the head is supposed to become like this, i. e. a halo. "Fire" is the easily-visible aspect to which something finer and more subtle, "corona", it the real basis. She must be, to some extent, similar to the Hindu depiction, except less of the Ajna, and more navel or core.

I tried to pursue Ekajati's emanation Nakhi, "Vajra Claws", who is transmitted together with Parasol and Marici (https://treasuryofwisdom.rigpa.org/new-2015-daily-sadhana-practice-book). The only thing I noticed is they overlook Taranatha's description that she is Sky Blue and make her dark. She is used in Nepal (https://samyeinstitute.org/event/vajra-claw-dorje-dermo-puja-at-vajra-varahi-monastery/), likely as a recent import. She is also in Sikkhim (https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Dorje_Dermo), but not in the Tibetan Canon. It is a Protector practice, and instead, the major electrical phenomenon is that Ekajati appears to use lightning on a red plasma ball to manifest Vajrayogini. What, exactly, a Karala Vajra having Rasmi or Rays may be, is still vague.

Where she stands or dances is suffused by the fire at the end of time, Maha Pralaya Agni, followed by something which suggests Hah syllable as making a type of Jihva, tongue, with a lala characteristic, which sounds related to Lalita or playful:

pratyālīḍhapadāṃ mahāpralayāgnisamaprabhāṃ vivṛtāsyāṃ hāhākārāṃ lalajjihvāṃ

Lalajjihva (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/lalajjihva) specifically means the tongue gesture, and so, it seems to be only a laughing hah syllable removed from annihilation.


She also uses bhrkuti as a common word which I at least interpret as vibration in the ajna, followed by her eyes:

netra-caladvartulāṃ

"Vatrula" might usually mean "round eyes", but this seems to say she is glancing in circles, or rolling her eyes or something.

[Old Student]

It may be possible that karali as the lolling tongue gesture is lightning. Agni is Sapta Jihve or has seven tongues, possibly with Rudra as the fire or lightning which the seven tongues are of.

I think I had the lolling tongue a little off. The precise words I had found were "distorted mouth" and since I was looking up a version of Kali (Kaliratri) I made an assumption. The more precise definition of "karalim" is "gaping mouth, showing fangs," apparently.


sarvabhāvaniḥsvabhāvaṃ kṛtvā jhaṭiti hṛdi kamalaṃ kamalopari raviśaśimadhye
raktahuṃkāraṃ sūkṣmarūpaṃ vālāgrasahasrabhāgaṃ bindurūpaṃ huṃkārānvitaṃ
vajranalanāsāyāṃ dhyāyāt

Kamala is the lotus used; a Red Hum takes the subtle form of thousands of beautifully fine hairs, the bindu Hum is attached as a cause to the thunderbolt or causes it to be finished (sayam). So, I am not sure this is any kind of vajra, or mace, or additional deity, it almost seems more like she strikes a meteorological thunderbolt, which makes the final Vajrayogini.

I could be wrong, but, it sounds more like an action than an item.

Unless it's "asayam", which would be to hold the vajraanala in the gut, also meaning to hold there to germinate.
Does sound like an action.


sūryasthahuṃkārodbhavaṃ karālavajraṃ
yavapramāṇaṃ vajramayaṃ raśmivikīrṇaṃ sakalamārasainya-
vināśayamānaṃ vicintayet /

That seems to say, on a sun disk, from Hum is born an item or symbol, Karala Vajra. I cannot reduce that one to a facial expression of any kind.

It's a long ah. My dictionary gives as primary meaning for "karāla", "to cleave asunder".

I started figuring out that it couldn't be "lolling" as in Kali's tongue when I saw all these other things you found. I have it on good (shakti native speaker) authority that Kali is biting her tongue, it isn't lolling. In the part of the world where she is worshipped heavily, they consider that a sign of embarrassment or regret -- spec. she is embarrassed for all the death she has caused after Shiva brings her back to her senses.


Subba Row--or rather, an anonymous letter to him--suggested that Kashi is really the Heart, and that death at Kashi was symbolic for the eerie calm when the personality is slain and prajna is established.

This is more a possibility for me.

[Old Student]

Garga Samhita refers to lightning over sixty times with obscure terms like Kulishad. It may be worth sifting, since Garga is one of the most instructive astrologers.

"[Indra's] weapon vajra was also known as Hradini, Kulisha, Bhidura, Pavi, Shatakodi, Shwata, Shamba, Bhambhogi, Ashati." (from an article, oddly enough about superheros).


It seems to me that we should hang most of the mystery on Vairocani, who is like the narrow waist of the hourglass. Prior to her is Varuni and all the esoteric Yoga. Past her is Heruka, Varahi, and Cinnamasta. She is Tapas or light made from inner heat, but, when guided to the center and up, she arguably would be required to assume an electro-magnetic character with plasma or lightning, since the head is supposed to become like this, i. e. a halo. "Fire" is the easily-visible aspect to which something finer and more subtle, "corona", it the real basis. She must be, to some extent, similar to the Hindu depiction, except less of the Ajna, and more navel or core.

Agreed. Heat always seems to come from the abdomen someplace, lightning from the top. I won't dispute that, when I shake in my scalp I see planes of lightning cutting through my head. But the lightning that covered all of me was from my chest, and was arrived at with energy (maybe heat/inner heat/bliss) from lower down.

The four states of matter give rise to others when there are fundamental changes at either the bottom of the scale (very cold) or the top (very hot). Stuff doesn't act like individual particles anymore (at the bottom) or acts like the particles have been crushed together (at the top). A drop of superfluid helium acts like the whole drop is a single particle. It has tsunamis on a microscope slide in a laboratory. At the other end are black holes.

[shaberon]

Yes, karali could tend to be more "distorted mouth" especially with the Fangs that are present on wrathfuls, but not on Srnagar deities, whereas lalajjihve is pretty specifically the tongue.

If it is a "biting" thing due to a shamed Lajja or Samaya, that is a little different, or in Buddhism such a condition has a handful of specific deities to deal with it.

For electricity, there is some ancient awareness of something besides lightning.

In Myths and Gods of India (https://archive.org/stream/TheMythsAndGodsOfIndiaTheClassicWorkOnHinduPolytheism/The+Myths+and+Gods+of+India+The+Classic+Work+on+Hindu+Polytheism_djvu.txt), Tadit sakti is a synonym for Vidyut sakti, to mean "all pervasive". Also:

"The vulva, the arrow, and the number 5 are considered equivalent
symbols. The word arrow is a symbolic expression for the number 5. It is used
for the god of lust, Kama, because of his five arrows (the five senses), for Shiva
because of his five faces, and for the Lady of the Mountain because of the five
principles of the elements. Although static electricity ( vidyut-punja ) pervades
all the elements, it dwells more particularly in water and in mountain ranges.
Since Parvati is the five elements (i.e., is like a mountain range), the phallus
of light enters her. When the mass of static energy falls into her womb, that is,
into earth or water, it becomes stabilized. Otherwise it reduces everything to
ashes. Thus arises the myth of the Lady of the Mountain becoming a vulva to
catch hold of the phallus of fire that was burning the world." This is also the
meaning of the dry tree embraced by the leafless creeper ( aparna ); the leafless
creeper is an equivalent of the vulva that is Parvati, while the Changeless Being
is the dry tree or phallus.

Uma (https://templesinindiainfo.com/uma-trishati-namavali-list-of-300-names-english/) also has the name Vidyudvajreshvari.


From Buddhism, I am not sure if we have an answer to address Ganapati Muni's composition from 1922 that combined Indrani and Vairocani and lightning. I am not really trying to refute it, I am trying to place Vairocani in the light she was seen in the medieval era, stemming from the ancient Durga Suktam referring to Ambika, sister or spouse of Rudra, invoked as Vairocani, Durga, Katyayani, and Kanyakumari.

And then if we parse out the identity of Vairocani, it requires the most esoteric concepts. First of all, if Indra himself was not exactly a Marut, he made the Marutas or Marut Gana into a sevenfold pattern. When healed or made whole, the re-assembled maruts or pranic jiva is Hanuman. This I almost think simply follows Rta or natural law. Itself is not really the Yoga teaching which is about Agni and others.

We know that Tvastr is perhaps the most relevant of ancient deities and is central to the Indra Heaven. We also find Mars reckoned in a high order, what his weapon is, and how his brother Ganesh is related. Samjna, "Perception", is the key here, i. e. Samjna Skandha, reflected in the presence of an alternate sister Chhaya Samjna, whom the original Samjna uses for a substitute. Vairocani is an ancestor of Samjna. Then we will find double Virajas, and the nature of Moon which is higher than Chandra--Soma, being the Full Moon Sacrifice, Monad, Atma-Buddhi-Manas, or Amrita.

Those are the main concepts, although the Puranas themselves are inscrutable or contradict one another, and you can only figure out Vairocani like a jigsaw puzzle.


In the Puranas, the name Vairocani is also used for the wife of Tvastr, in which case she is Daughter-of-Brightness, mother of Viswakarman.

In Vishnu Purana, Samjna complained to her father Viśvakarman, that life with Sūrya was impossible on account of his excessive heat, and so Viśvakarman ground Sūrya on his drilling machine and reduced his heat. But, only (1/8) of the heat (effulgence) could be so reduced, and it was with that fraction of effulgence that Viṣṇu’s disc (cakra), Śiva’s triśūla (trident), Kubera’s puṣpakavimāna and Subrahmaṇya’s weapon called Śakti were made.

Surya finds out Samjna's trick due to the curse on Yama; he pursues her in horse form into Uttarakuru, and from this, the Aswins, or immortality, are born. This is the most famous mare in Hinduism, having to do with horses becoming vehicles of further deities.

So Vairocani is the mother aspect which would say Tvastr + Vairocani = Viswakarman (Brahmanda and Vayu Puranas), and possibly in the sense that Viswakarman is Tvastr on a more terrestrial plane; Myths and Gods of India says they are identified, or, the Shaper, Tvastr, primarily identifies with Viswakarman, and to a lesser extent, with his other progeny.

Tvastr is Samjna's father in Matsya and Brahmanda Puranas and in Mahabharata. It is Vishwakarman in Vishnu and most other Puranas. Samjna is always the consort of Surya, unless it is Vivasvata (Bhagavata Purana), which is about the same meaning; and she standardly throws in her substitute who manages to have her own children with Surya, such as Shani--Saturn and the future manu. The next Manu is in a cycle where Amitabhas are a principal deity class of the universe. This is emanated from the current Buddha cycle where Amitabha is the overall main guru or teaching Buddha of the time; and so once he is mastered or absorbed, he is then a basic building block in the future.


Chhaya is also simply called Prithvi Samjna, i. e., earthly or mundane perception. Her sister, as Saranyu or Swift Cloud Samjna is shown as Vairocani's daughter. From there, we see that Vairocani's father is Prahrada, Sound of Happiness, an Asura chief also called Kayadhava in Taittirīya-brāhmaṇa, which is like a common key for Hindu tantra, a commentary on Krsna Yajurveda. Vairocani in Brahmanda Purana is the sister of male Vairocana (brother of Sumbha and Nisumbha, father of Bali), and mother of a male Viraja (who is possibly the father of female Viraja and also of the Vairājas—pitṛs living by yoga).

Or, Viraja is son of Pūrṇamāsa and Sarasvatī; his wife was Gaurī; son Sudhāmā, Lokapala of the East. Bhagavata Purana intends to use Viraja twice, as a son of Tvastr whose wife is Visuci, and as a son of Purnamasa (which is actually first). There is also Parvasa — a son of Purnamasa and Sarasvati; the lord of all ganas.

Purnamasa is son of male Marīci and Sambhṛtī (or Sambhūtī in Vāyu-purāṇa, or Kala); whose wife is Sarasvatī. As a standard word in male form, Purnamasa means full moon sacrifice, and in feminine means day or night time of the full moon. Purniman's daughter Devakulya is the Celestial Ganges.




A slightly different scheme indicates Vairocani's parentage:


Dharma + Prabhata (Dawn, or to make or become light) = Vasu Prabhasa

Prabhasa + Yogasiddha Varastri (Jupiter's sister) = Vishwakarman

Prahlada + (Drarbi, Dhriti, or [elder] Varuni) = Vairocani

Vishwakarman + Vairocani = Samjna (Brahmanda Purana, III.59)

In Brahmanda Purana, Viswakarman and Tvastr are the same.

It mentions one Varuna wife as Stuta (elsewhere, Sura or Carsani), mother of Surasundari, or so i. e. Varuni, mother of Varuni.


Prahlada is very famous but, Hindus are highly confused about his possible wife and I suppose miss the daughter altogether. The alternate names of him may be Prahrada or Kayadhava. It can only be answered indirectly by asking who the male Vairocani's parents are.

It is difficult to extricate, but, broadly speaking, Vairocani is the Shakti of Tvastr or Viswakarman, and they are the parents of Samjna, who is the Shakti of Surya and mother of the Aswins.

Figuring her our completely makes one a Samjna Samjnin which is in Satya Loka or the highest plane.

In Buddhism, Samjna is Perception Skandha, sixfold, with respect to perception of the objects of the five senses plus the ideas perceived by the mind. Samjna for instance perceives the difference between blue and orange, but reactive feelings or mental thoughts about them come from other skandhas. Samjna simply takes sensory inputs or objects (Sparsha Vajra, etc.), or details, into the mind, and is Amitabha or Lotus Family.

[shaberon]

The four states of matter give rise to others when there are fundamental changes at either the bottom of the scale (very cold) or the top (very hot). Stuff doesn't act like individual particles anymore (at the bottom) or acts like the particles have been crushed together (at the top). A drop of superfluid helium acts like the whole drop is a single particle. It has tsunamis on a microscope slide in a laboratory. At the other end are black holes.

I am not sure the occult states of matter are going to equate to what science comes up with.

It is hard for me to accept that a Bose-Einstein Condensate is a state of matter. It is, but a very artificial one, in which case all atoms act like a single atom, and has been found to slow down light to 37 mph. It is like Ledbeater's psychic visions on atoms, placed into a sort of unnatural state.

The fifth state is probably more closely related to the nebulae.

The Masters said if Crookes had "tried again", he may have gotten closer to the fifth state, but, if he started to figure out the sixth, they would have taken him and bound him to secrecy.

We have a lot of occult information, but, the main reason the "real" numbers of cycles and so forth are not given out--and the reason Indra's weapon is difficult--is that ultimately, we are also talking about a weapon, with the ability to vaporize humans out of existence at any distance. It is generally reserved for karmic tasks, such as the "destruction of Atlantis", and the possibility of it getting out due to some curious yogi is pretty well nixed.

Another clue from occult color is that by placing Violet at the bottom of the scale, to mean the physical plane, it means that the lowest aspect is only the highest physical vibration, produced by the brain during its most refined intellection, which again is something living from the sun, generally disposed of by man.

The large difference between occultism and science is that occultism deals with consciousness, and only has a human being for its "measuring instrument". Materialism would work as a valid philosophy if, according to what Koothoomi said about Baron Holbach, "thought is a form of matter". There was at least a nascent 18th century European atheist philosophy which sought to tie in physical science to a corresponding physicalized consciousness--but instead, we got a school that says something like physical things are real, and consciousness is a co-incidental by-product of electro-chemical reactions. And so we have a "split", whereas mind and body are on the same spectrum in yoga traditions.

The laws of matter, as its own subject, are more like Deva Yoga and Rta, which is not really what Gnosis is about.

When speaking of a fifth state above plasma, it corresponds to the fifth plane, Akash or Plane of Manas. This can face outwardly and make any forms, so, i. e. with mastery of Kriya Shakti, one could materialize objects. Turned inward, it would enter formless states that could be called Subtle Mind and Very Subtle mind, which are like practical physical correspondences to the planes of Buddhi and Atma. We have said almost nothing about the Buddhic Plane since it is the domain of Varuna and the eventual Occult Marriage after Ganesh holds "various" shaktis, his true heart brides or Ganapati Hrdaya are Siddhi and Buddhi. The siddhis consist of worldly ones--veiled in symbolic garb, where you could generally equate "rapid travel" with astral projection and so forth, and then the transcendent siddhis are Generation and Completion Stages.

That is why there is no direct discussion of Varuna, but there is of Varuni and a few Makara riders going out, and so we are involved with making a seal to them. This begins around the Indra Heaven, ascends through Kama Loka, and then the subtle teachings about the voids are the plane of Akash. It is not much besides the Para Sunya that could be associated to the Buddhic plane and hence a sixth state of matter. And of this, we can say but little, directly, and instead try to develop a reliable practice of entry and emergence.

I would say the tantras are the practical path using the Sambohogakaya and Dharmakaya, which are presented differently, but actually do attach to a system of planes of matter. It takes the "human principle" of fivefold form and unites it to something bigger, but, overall, it mainly deals with the fourth and fifth planes, in the cosmic or material sense, which is why it is called a Noumenal Path, and is not the same as Kundalini Yoga which has the tendency to place it all just like rungs of a ladder. That may be closer to how form or material was projected, but we are reversing this.

[Old Student]

In Myths and Gods of India, Tadit sakti is a synonym for Vidyut sakti, to mean "all pervasive".

तड़ित रोधक tadit rodhak is a lightning arrester. Since taditpati is a cloud, I think you have hit on the version of thinking of lightning that is made from clouds.


Thus arises the myth of the Lady of the Mountain becoming a vulva to
catch hold of the phallus of fire that was burning the world.

This sounds sort of volcanic, a mountain catching and holding a fire that would burn the world.


Uma also has the name Vidyudvajreshvari.

This is certainly interesting. Uma doesn't sound any less about Buddhism than Lakshmi or Sarasvati.


It is difficult to extricate, but, broadly speaking, Vairocani is the Shakti of Tvastr or Viswakarman, and they are the parents of Samjna, who is the Shakti of Surya and mother of the Aswins.

Figuring her our completely makes one a Samjna Samjnin which is in Satya Loka or the highest plane.

In Buddhism, Samjna is Perception Skandha, sixfold, with respect to perception of the objects of the five senses plus the ideas perceived by the mind. Samjna for instance perceives the difference between blue and orange, but reactive feelings or mental thoughts about them come from other skandhas. Samjna simply takes sensory inputs or objects (Sparsha Vajra, etc.), or details, into the mind, and is Amitabha or Lotus Family.

I don't think I totally understand the distinction you are making here, is Samjna pre- or encompassing- of the senses?

I am beginning to feel like the system of chakras and sushumna nadi is a bit like a Russian doll. I am now going through yet another version of my centerline and points of energy along it. This one related to how to put the head back on the lightning being if you will, since I'm led to believe this is to link up the jewel (Kurukulla and about interpenetration) with the body filled with rainbow liquid and covered in lightning. I was told this morning that I essentially need to "work out" that I am not in good enough shape for the next step. So I guess I will be doing a lot of body building for the subtle body or something.

[shaberon]

In Myths and Gods of India, Tadit sakti is a synonym for Vidyut sakti, to mean "all pervasive".

तड़ित रोधक tadit rodhak is a lightning arrester. Since taditpati is a cloud, I think you have hit on the version of thinking of lightning that is made from clouds.


Perhaps so. When moisture can be considered as a type of dispersed cloud, such lightning could be everywhere. I think we are missing something deep in alchemy or maybe a massive shakti list.

Uma is just another name of Sati, etc., Shiva's wife. Some have suggested the trinity A (gni) U (ma) M (aruts). Uma is generally a Haimavati or mountain dweller, and what is really strange to me is that not only is Janguli called Mahayogeshvari and Haimavati, i. e. an acolyte of Uma, the brief "Sutra" specifically describes Buddha finding her on a northern mountain, where nobody cares about snakes.

It is said this is why her practice was never popular in Tibet, nobody cares about snakes.

But she is more about curing metaphysical Water Poison and being equal to the Naga Kingdom or able to wield it consciously.

Yes I think all the Vedic and Puranic deities would tend to accept Buddha Dharma, and the way Buddha's message is adverse to orthodox Hinduism is a couple of things. He believes in the Vedas and says the Rishis are real Rishis and so forth, but, the Karma Khanda parts are unnecessary--the elaborate rules and compelled ritualistic behavior. And then the teaching of meditation is like a breaking of the lock which the Brahman caste tends to keep on yoga and secret doctrines.

The Upanishads are not even Brahmanical, but came from the Warrior Kings.



I don't think I totally understand the distinction you are making here, is Samjna pre- or encompassing- of the senses?



I am not sure yet either. Firstly, one important thing is her parentage.

The Puranas have such colossal genealogies, it is a bit like taking Victoria Falls on a surfboard. One of the main, concrete links of the Puranas into Buddhism is Kasyapa from the Historical Buddhas. And he can be called Tortoise with "the world on his back". Esoterically, Kasyapa is the bodies of all the kingdoms of nature, is the "bed of life" from planetary formation through evolution. But then, it turns out, he has a brother, Purniman or Purnamasa. Well, generally speaking, the associate of all the lower kingdoms is man's spiritual monad. And then we find in a 1906 Puranic study by an Indian who was trying to associate it with the English Theosophical terminology, he says that is the meaning, that Purnamasa is what has been called the spiritual triad and other names.

So this phase is a description of the formation of what might be called Primordial Man of the Heavens, or Purush, or Manu, composed of mind-born generations of Brahma and multiple elements.

And in terms of the Path, it seems one of the most significant deities is Tvastr, and especially if we get into what is vajra and what is lightning. It is in the "Indra Heaven" but, what exactly is that and why is Tvastr important there are further questions--his primacy is unchallenged.

I cannot wrangle very much with whether Tvastr and Viswakarman are identical, although tvastr has the generic meaning of "to peel, to make thin", which is his significant action upon the sun. He is important not just for the ability to make weapons or any items, he is the keeper of Soma. Younger Varuni is the act of Soma-drinking, which is where the Noumenal Vairocani occurs.

Vairocani's brother Vairocani is the sire of Bali.

The main Puranic origin of her is in the Vayu, and subsequently the Brahmanda, which is a recenscion of the Vayu:

Tvaṣṭā (त्वष्टा).—One of the four sons of Śukra;1 married Yaśodharā—Vairocinī, daughter of [Asura] Virocana; father of Triśira, Viśvarūpa and Viśvakarma;2 Prahrādī, another wife; Samjñā, a daughter of his, was given in marriage to the Sun God;3 an Āditya in the month of Kārttika having 8000 rays; with the Śiśira Sun;4 reduced the Sun's tejas;5 made Viṣṇu's discus;6 fell down on the earth for having drunk the Soma of Śacipati.

Tvastr is Vedic:

Tvashta, also called Bhaumana is the divine carpenter. He is the father of Saranyu (the wife of Vivasvant) and the grand-father of the primeval twins Yama and Yami. The Rig Veda calls him the 'artificer' of the Gods. He does not have a whole hymn dedicated to him in the Rig Veda, but is mentioned in conjunction with other deities in [R.V.1.13], [R.V.2.1] etc. He is said to be the most skillful of workmen, having fashioned the bolt of Indra and a drinking-cup for the Gods. He is the guardian of Soma (Amrit), which is called the food of Tvashta. Indra drinks Soma at Tvashta's house.

Tvashta is also thought to be the same as Vishwakarma. (who is the divine architect, and who has a daughter who married the sun god Surya)

Indra is not there. Saranyu is "Swift Cloud" Samjna. Her sister is her daughter. And so it is a lesser--the terrestrial or Prithvi or shadow or Chhaya Sajmna that is effectively now Surya's shakti, and the mother of Saturn, not really the physical orb, but, so to speak, of Saturn's mental projection onto our physical orb. She is essentially stuck to the visible sun until man figures out that the visible sensible world is a trick, just like her. That is why Saturn is so malefic and a dreadful sledgehammer of twenty-nine year karmic return. The real time cycle or Samvatsara is two Saturn cycles or five Jupiter cycles. Jupiter at twelve years is usually seen as the largest time unit man can grasp consciously.

In the story, of course, Chhaya Samjna givers herself away because she is a bit dumb, and Tvastr is not.

The parallel in Buddhism is to say Samjna is a Skandha, wherein we are tricked by the permanent illusion of the senses. It has mental throughput including apperception and the means necessary to identify "chair is a chair". The riddance of this skandha is a wisdom called Pratyavekshana Jnana, which, itself, has the worst translations and muddiest meaning of almost anything in Buddhism.

Why would you do that to Amitabha who is the regent of our whole human experience right now??

I do not know how old the term Discriminating Wisdom is, but, it does not really fit.

However, the fact that the unwieldy Chhaya Sajmna can be replaced by Saranyu Sajmna, means a transition to divine perception.

We are only considered capable of aiming our perception at a few things:

sense objects and ordinary intellect within the senses

formless sense objects that do not arise from a physical stimulus, and subtle mind (Feeling, Will or Iccha, and the sixth and seventh minds)

space and cessation



Samjna appears one time in Sri Mahalakshmi (https://www.tpty.in/2020/08/lakshmi-goddess-prayers-for-wealth-purity-of-soul-profit-success-happiness.html) 1008 Names:

TIKSNAPRAVRTTIH SATKIRTIH NISEVYA’GHAVINASINI
SAMJNA NIHSAMSAYA PURVA VANAMALA VASUNDHARA


Samjna is part of Vaikari Vak (https://books.google.com/books?id=eY_2DQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA834&ots=O-Mly9yqCg&dq=samjna%20samjnin&pg=PA834#v=onepage&q=samjna%20samjnin&f=false), manifested speech, the "namer", with samjnin being "the named". Since this is all on the subject of Vairocani, then it is equivocable to say her associate Varnani can be interpreted as "the colored", but, also, "the lettered". Again, the middle consciousness can be collectively called "Name", Nama Skandha, feeling, perception--samjna, will or iccha, and mind per se or Manas or the soul. Namer and named, or grasper and grasped, are various ways of saying subject and object.

In grammar (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cd83/cdbeb898fdebc8fd154aaa4548151832b393.pdf), sajmna has the power to "convey anything"--Pratyayana Sakti--to the samjnin.

Samjna (https://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/66543/11/11_chapter%202.pdf) is from the same root "jna", to know, and with sam- it really means to know thoroughly or to know everything.

That does not describe mundane terrestrial perception with a heap of apperception.

Aveksana generally just means looking at or paying attention to, but also:

Avekṣaṇa (अवेक्षण) refers to the “use of appropriate words or terms and avoidance of improper words or terms” and represents one of the six kinds of prakīrṇa (miscellaneous causes): one of the three “constituents of poetry” (kāvyāṅga) designated by Ācārya Vāmana in his Kāvyālaṅkārasūtravṛtti (also see the Kāvyaprakāśa).

Samjna Samjnin therefor must be a type of non-duality, focused in Vaikhara Vak, and something about knowing how to make the most appropriate words out of the letters. That is not ordinary terrestrial perception, it is spiritual communication.

If it is non-dual, there is no one else to speak to.

Nor is it "me" talking to some other part of "me".

It is just a flow of some kind of power which has the ability to shed earthly maya.

Almost everything I say is just a flow of mystical sound. For instance, sometimes I call our animals the foulest names known to man, but, because I am sending it with the "power", or tone of voice, with love and life, they are happy.

Humans are usually the opposite of that, They require a snappy, linear reply that fits the "boxes" of the words they just said. They usually get irritated if you want to process something for only a few seconds. What is this, a walking heart attack?

Human beings go to mental and emotional pieces immediately from a few words.

But sometimes when I mystify them, they are able to respond about as well as a dog or a goat.

Anything I say is just some kind of spell, like I am casting an illusion, I can't imagine it would be otherwise for even a second.

It seems to me that if the Sun, Surya, really did manage to shed some heat and reveal his true face or corona, Samjna would be happy or i. e. divine perception would be glad to pervade the nirmanakaya realm. When something works right, it is trampled or transcended, and so above her is Vairocani effectively becoming the "Namer" in a state of divine consciousness.

The use of Varuni would be equivalent to piercing the veils of Samjna. Both have Vairocani above/beyond. Vairocani defines herself as the effulgence of Tapas, which could thereby be considered the "eraser" of Chhaya.


As far as the "Signs" you are experiencing, those are very powerful, and at the same time, appropriate that they are self-delimiting. The Yoga is not going to fully work, without the corrective details intended by these dakinis. Speaking as one who has figured out how to "thread the Brahmarandra" by Cessation alone, I think it is important to "bring more" to the experience, especially along the lines of six transcendent virtues. If it is not spiritual enough, then bliss of the body becomes a distraction, if not the end. It should be a stepping stone or platform, to which are attached the rays of the absolute, which does not automatically happen. That is why I study this stuff, it is like trying to pack a thousand books into a few seconds of what might even be called paranormal, the translation of millions of words into a bead of energy.

[Old Student]

Samjna is part of Vaikari Vak, manifested speech, the "namer", with samjnin being "the named". Since this is all on the subject of Vairocani, then it is equivocable to say her associate Varnani can be interpreted as "the colored", but, also, "the lettered". Again, the middle consciousness can be collectively called "Name", Nama Skandha, feeling, perception--samjna, will or iccha, and mind per se or Manas or the soul. Namer and named, or grasper and grasped, are various ways of saying subject and object.

In grammar, sajmna has the power to "convey anything"--Pratyayana Sakti--to the samjnin.

Samjna is from the same root "jna", to know, and with sam- it really means to know thoroughly or to know everything.

Interesting that this was all figured out by introspection. The human brain actually has a process not very far from this (including your reference explaining Vaikari Vak) for going from the conception of a thought to the actual spoken sound. There are different brain parts for doing the various pieces. E.g. Gabby Giffords can write a great speech still, the same way she did before, and can presumably compose it in her brain so that she will hear the words spoken the way most people do in their mind when they are going over something they intend to say. But the bullet went through her Broca speech area, so she can't make that translate into actual speech, so it doesn't go from samjna internal vak to vaikari vak because the vaikari'izing part is missing.

Agree that this is meant to become non-dual, the samjna and the samjnin merging.

W/respect to Vairocani, then, there is the amassed lightning energy and the bolt.


As far as the "Signs" you are experiencing, those are very powerful, and at the same time, appropriate that they are self-delimiting. The Yoga is not going to fully work, without the corrective details intended by these dakinis. Speaking as one who has figured out how to "thread the Brahmarandra" by Cessation alone, I think it is important to "bring more" to the experience, especially along the lines of six transcendent virtues. If it is not spiritual enough, then bliss of the body becomes a distraction, if not the end. It should be a stepping stone or platform, to which are attached the rays of the absolute, which does not automatically happen. That is why I study this stuff, it is like trying to pack a thousand books into a few seconds of what might even be called paranormal, the translation of millions of words into a bead of energy.


Yes, "if it is not spiritual enough then bliss of the body becomes a distraction, not an end." This bliss I describe all started with the clear body, and then with a sort of lesser Kundalini awakening event. The clear body was perhaps the culmination of 43 years of meditation, so it wasn't without discipline. The lesser Kundalini awakening event was just what people say, it made certain changes to my life, among them a major change in the perception of bliss.

I have been shaking now for going on a year and a half, every night, sometimes as brief as a half-hour or forty minutes, but usually on order hours. The only time I call the shots and not the Dakinis, are basically during tests, when I am doing what I have been taught and being evaluated. There are certain times when the requirements for bliss-energy are so high that I seem to be expending all of my effort to attain it. During such times I often feel almost like an embarrassment because it seems like I'm involved in chasing gratification of the senses. But it is not.

For instance, last night required the build up of an enormous amount of bliss, and that sense, that at times it felt embarrassing, was certainly there. But it was not chasing gratification, the enormous amount of bliss fell short on all but one account for what it was for, barring that all that was necessary to show me what the immediate goal was, which I guess is certainly possible. I think it was to show me the goal and to show me I was short of what was needed. I lack strength in my arms, apparently, and I need to rewire the nerves at the root of my tongue.

It's ironic, or more hopefully, prescient that the discussion in your post turned to the spoken word as a means to understand Vairocani. From it, I can sort of understand very well about one thing, why lightning and the pre-spoken word are related. Since the last night whose notes I posted -- about the rainbow liquid inside of lightning skin body -- I've had the necessary triggers or tweaks to recreate the entire thing happily buzzing away in the background 24/7.

But it doesn't have a head from the inside. The first step to the head from the inside is to extend to my neck/throat, and apparently that means becoming able to trigger/tweak buzz or whatever the jewel at my throat -- the one which is filled with all those infinities of interpenetration that the Hua-yen people write about. The path to doing that is through my tongue, I built up everything to light the base of my tongue on fire. It didn't light because I don't have everything -- I need strength in my arms, I need voluntary control over the stump part of the tongue that attaches to the throat, below the part that flaps and moves. It has been lit -- it buzzes constantly now -- but that is all I am able to do yet.

Will that change me like all the other things? Probably. Will it strengthen the paramitas? Also probably. The bliss is very much the same feeling, only by this time more intense and sustained and variegated into different types, as an orgasm. And if I was trying to teach someone how to create it, I would definitely use probably all the same sexual references that the tantrayoginis do. But drawing bliss up through the body to cause the self to dissolve is a very different business than gratifying oneself with sex -- even if the Dakinis allowed that kind of diversion, which so far they have not.

[shaberon]

It's ironic, or more hopefully, prescient that the discussion in your post turned to the spoken word as a means to understand Vairocani. From it, I can sort of understand very well about one thing, why lightning and the pre-spoken word are related. Since the last night whose notes I posted -- about the rainbow liquid inside of lightning skin body -- I've had the necessary triggers or tweaks to recreate the entire thing happily buzzing away in the background 24/7.


I would say the preceding post in general is probably a good way to get people to understand you.

Also, by "clear", if I recall correctly, sometimes it means transparent like an x-ray picture, but is more often a pale greenish yellow?

According to those terms, I would say yes, it is commensurate to what I have experienced in a slightly different manner.

I tend to think of those aspects as "spectrums", which by comparison there is a rainbow spectrum which is a little different.

So for example at times, I have been able to watch any distant white light, streetlight, car headlight, etc., make a rainbow spectrum. But I have rarely if ever experienced it in a "close", let alone internal, manner. One time I was walking up the sidewalk near my house. There was a Dalmatian dog sitting partway up the hill. And then I started dreamwalking or I forgot my mind or something and suddenly the dog was at the center of a luminous realm, emanating great rainbow light that blew lightbulbs away.

It is very interesting that you agree the teaching of Vak both has some kind of objective neurolinguistic evidence, along with what we would call Atma Vidya or personal experience that it abides at some kind of fulcrum at the equipoise of lightning and rainbow.

Vak is Fourfold Om which I would present as the basis of Four Activities as done in the tantras. If not literally so, at least as a kind of psychological rhythm shared between them. And then Guhyagarbha Tantra presents Four Gatekeepers as the solar plexus. This is what I suggest or what I interpret as the best basis for Candali Yoga.

Vak or Vach is undeniably one of the holiest topics. Actually, the very good photo set and deity description at Maitreya or Jampa Gompa in Upper Mustang was done by Brown University alongside an attempt to study the use of mantra with EKGs and stuff like that. I do not know what they found, I was more interested in what was in the Gompa.

Vach Ishvari mantra:

4bvb3p7W-fE








Most people do not experience bliss or a clear body, so, a considerable portion of what I write is not necessarily germane to what Old Student is doing, it is more like the outer language and symbols and the means of transmuting it internally. This is not so much a pick-and-choose-your-favorites routine, it actually is the teaching of a lineage from Anandagarbha through Buston (who is the main compiler of the Kanjur-Tanjur or Tibetan Canon). It is Yoga Tantra, and heavily focuses on Generation Stage, utilizing just as much of the "lower tantras" as required, before working in basically the same set of Yoga Tantras, some of which are considered powerful enough to be Non-Dual like Kalachakra. The classification of tantra in layers (https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/nastika-notes-2/) is arbitrary and somewhat unnecessary in the view of Yoga or inner meaning, That description is given by someone who calls us Nastikas, i. e. is probably against Buddhism as being unorthodox, but the information is very accurate.

Dakini Jala is the starting method used by Samvarodaya Tantra, which is that Chakrasamvara that includes Vairocani. There are several synonyms for "esoteric doctrine" or "ear-whispered transmission" and the like. Dakini Jala is explained by Vajrayogini in a Rahasya, meaning Secret Doctrine--of which there are only around three in all of Buddhism. There is not a single one in Sadhanamala. Amnaya does have a similar meaning, but is a bit more common, appearing five times. Avalokiteshvara has it, Picuva Marici has a tantra amnaya, Pratisara is one, Ekajati is one, but the closest to an actual title is 208:

āmnāyāntareṇa vajraśṛṅkhalāsādhanam

A slightly more outer synonym is Krama or instructions or method. And so for instance the single sadhana that begins "Arya Tara" is Dhanada Krama; similarly, Mahacina is not by itself a personal name, although it could be short for Mahacina Krama Tara Bhattarika.

It would be normal in India, if one was interested in the Mahavidya Ugra Tara, they would tell you Kali is the background. You might not train extensively on Kali, or roll around in broken bottles in a charnel ground, I am not sure, but there would be some form of Kali initiation. Then if you were really doing Tara it would turn out to be a seven layer Yantra, with the layers each having some group of deities or elements or something resembling what goes into Buddhist mandalas. Instead of all that, we have lifted the syllable off this chick and stashed it in a similar dark blue place where Ugra Tara is not used as the title or proper name of something.

Occasionally we find other things about how modern Indians view their own lore. Someone for example says The Vidyarajni form of Tara "is popular in Mahacina" (https://purnanandalahari.org/purnanandalahari-p2d3/) as Mayuri. Does he mean a place, such as Tibet, that it does not? Does it mean "in Mahacina Krama"? Probably not. You could say Mayuri is part of Pratisara Amnaya. But I don't think we would argue that Mayuri is probably a standard exoteric Dharani.

Durga Kumari Puja (https://books.google.com/books?id=1Hw8DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA161&ots=ZplFp_gDgh&dq=mahacina%20krama&pg=PA161#v=onepage&q=mahacina%20krama&f=false) is replicated by Kubjika Tantra and Mahacina Krama (which uses girls up to sixteen).

Ekajati is said by some to be the most powerful deity.

For a stotra (https://animeshnagarblog.wordpress.com/tag/mahachina-krama/) posted in Devanagari, it says:

On eve of mahAnavamI I’m posting a Buddhist stotra dedicated to the goddess of nepAla ‘bhagavatI guhyeshwarI’ who is none other then the guhyakAlI worshipped with mAhAchinakrama in nepAlamandala. The stotra is extracted from a Buddhist purAna text ‘ svayambhU purAna ‘.

Well, you can't dispute that for authenticity. We can find it in Sanskrit. And so if this Mahacina Krama goes through to Guhyeshvari--Guhyakali, there is nothing left to give. One could ask how Mahacina Krama Tara Bhattarika pertains to Ekajati Amnaya Tara. The first thing that comes to mind is that the title Bhattarika applies to Sragdhara Tara and others which mix in Lotus Family and Mahakarunika. It would be accurate to say the Mahakarunika Dharani of Avalokiteshvara is "remixed" several times into goddess dharanis. And then we find Ekajati having strange adventures related to, and even placing her in, Lotus Family, starting with Amoghapasha. Eventually she does this thing with a Red Hum syllable, which, if anything, sounds plausibly like a plasma ball or corona by being called "fine hairs" instead of "brilliant rays", I guess there is a lightning strike, and you get Red Vajrayogini Maitri Dakini.

A version of Usnisa Vijaya Dharani uses the term Ekajati Pratibaddha (https://fdocuments.us/document/the-usnisa-vijaya-dharani-sutra-more-complete-version.html) as what looks like the state of Vajradhara or an advanced Bodhisattva ready to arise as a Buddha. Pratibaddha is the same type of phrase as in Mantra Baddha or Mantra Bound, similar to Bandha, linked, joined to, fastened, etc., the power of Shrnkala or Chain.

Even though they are similar, she is never Guru's Consort that I am aware of. We found Vajradhara beside/emanating Nairatma, who is not his consort. He is something like the perpetual indirect teacher.

Ultimately, Vajradhara would be a name for oneself, and this corresponding Ekajati describes what this Vajradhara is experiencing or what kind of phenomenon or dhatu is present. And so, the Fullness of this would cause the Cosmic Marici to dawn, when a new Buddha appears.

Time, Death, and the Aswins are called the overall reality in life. Saranyu Samjna is the mother of Death and the Aswins (and Vaivasvata Manu).

Gudrun Buhnemann on Mahacina Krama (https://www.academia.edu/11836474/The_Goddess_Mah%C4%81c%C4%ABnakrama_T%C4%81r%C4%81_Ugra_T%C4%81r%C4%81_in_Buddhist_and_Hindu_Tantris m), I am not sure if we have used yet, her article on Varuni was outstanding.

[Old Student]

I would say the preceding post in general is probably a good way to get people to understand you.
Good to know, I thought after I did it I had been entirely too 'wrathful'.


Also, by "clear", if I recall correctly, sometimes it means transparent like an x-ray picture, but is more often a pale greenish yellow?
'Usually', which I have to qualify because I haven't seen it that way recently, pale green and clear. Just green for the most part, but with dichroic red in places (green to look at, red to look through), with blue iridescence and glowing yellowish, with sometimes black wrapped in purple up the spine.

Recently though, green and black and metallic in some versions, and very dark, but not inky, more extremely dark blue (kind of like a night sky) is how the clear body that has the lightning going through it looks, the rainbow liquid part is rainbow liquid.


So for example at times, I have been able to watch any distant white light, streetlight, car headlight, etc., make a rainbow spectrum. But I have rarely if ever experienced it in a "close", let alone internal, manner. One time I was walking up the sidewalk near my house. There was a Dalmatian dog sitting partway up the hill. And then I started dreamwalking or I forgot my mind or something and suddenly the dog was at the center of a luminous realm, emanating great rainbow light that blew lightbulbs away.

This sounds amazing. Most of the lights I see are emanating from me or shining down on me.


It is very interesting that you agree the teaching of Vak both has some kind of objective neurolinguistic evidence, along with what we would call Atma Vidya or personal experience that it abides at some kind of fulcrum at the equipoise of lightning and rainbow.

I have a tendency to think of things that way, I did decades of trying to understand how brains actually process things. I am likely to have things all seeming like fulcra right now because it's difficult to think about these things and not to be focused on the root of my tongue. But the analogies or links are pretty easy to draw, the wonder is that scientists had to trace how the signals went from place to place to come up with this breakdown, and the yogis and yoginis did it introspectively and came to many of the same conclusions. It gives it a special ring of truth.


And then we find Ekajati having strange adventures related to, and even placing her in, Lotus Family, starting with Amoghapasha. Eventually she does this thing with a Red Hum syllable, which, if anything, sounds plausibly like a plasma ball or corona by being called "fine hairs" instead of "brilliant rays", I guess there is a lightning strike, and you get Red Vajrayogini Maitri Dakini.

This is interesting. I don't ever see her as red, always black or close to it emanating things that are usually blue.

"Vajrayogini Maitri Dakini" is like Vajrayogini Friendly Dakini, is it not? I have to figure that one out.

[shaberon]

This is interesting. I don't ever see her as red, always black or close to it emanating things that are usually blue.

"Vajrayogini Maitri Dakini" is like Vajrayogini Friendly Dakini, is it not? I have to figure that one out.

Ok. So "clear" is kind of any color, translucent or transparent?

There is definitely a Krodha Kali, Troma Nagmo (Sanskrit: Krishna Krodhini. English: the Fierce Black One), considered Tara and Varahi. Lineage from India: Vajradhara, Jnana Dakini, Virupa, Brahmin Aryadeva, Pha Dampa Sanggye (11th century), etc.

She is the one generally applied to the Chod rite.

As to whether that is exactly "black", well, not necessarily. Many deities described as "krsna" are often painted black. I am not sure why. The sadhanas can express black if they need to. This "Black" Vajrayogini is simple, can be the center of Five Dakinis, or on her own.

Maitri is an important lineage transmitter, who I get confused with Mitra, but they are different guys. It appears there are at least a couple kinds of "energetic increase" that a dakini can display. Naro's dakini will drink from her skullcup. Maitri's dakini has a foot high in the air, representing flight, or Akasha Dhatvishvari. It is possible that she may even get her second foot going, in which case she may appear a bit like Sukhasiddhi:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/7/8/57826.jpg







The one beyond that is Buddhadakini, who has sex with Mahamaya by lifting both feet off the ground.

There is some confusion of color and the right name, but, Troma is ostensibly in Vajra Family, and cannot help but be some extrapolation of Mahacina Krama Tara. Or, at least, something done by Virupa, in which case I would try to start from the original. I do not believe it is even in Sadhanamala. It, and the Taranatha transmissions, have multiple Naro Dakinis and Maitri Dakinis, which will walk us towards Cinnamasta.

Cinnamasta is supported by Vairocani, who was difficult to trace, and by the even more obscure Varnani. Either text isolates Varnani one time in a single sadhana--wherein she is even above Buddhadakini, because she is Sarva Buddha Dakini. Sadhanamala 225 is:

śrī oḍiyānavajrapīṭhavinirgataūrdhvapādavajra-
vārāhīsādhanaṃ samāptam

This is the Red Varahi who casts Inverted Stupa, and the phrase Urdhva Pada is "raised foot", which means Maitri Dakini. So we might contend that Vairocani is something fostered by Tapas, whereas Varnani is perhaps a bit higher, has no Hindu equivalent that I know of right off hand, and takes Generation Stage for granted. It may be taking Varahi for granted, and probably is asking for success in Mahamaya Tantra, thereby making Sarva Buddha Dakini a "blossoming" of Buddha Dakini. The Buddha Dakini is in Tathagata or Vairocana Family, and so the Chakrasamvara couple itself, even though counted a a "single deity", is usually a Tathagata Family female with a Vajra Family male.

Since this is in the same book, she cannot be much different from the one Ekajati summons. In both cases, there is a copy of Inverted Stupa, which is rare. Hari Hari Vahana also has it, Maya Jala Kurukulla has half of it, and it is Vajra Tara who appears to have it as well as an upright stupa.

Actually, Maitri Dakini as RG 31 does use Vairocani as well, and it skips the Inverted Stupa, so it is not quite the same. Interestingly, his Black Varahi uses Guhyajnana's Ha Ri Ni Sa syllables, and her retinue as a whole is Vajra Dakini. Taranatha's Dakini or Varahi sadhanas are somewhat of a tumult of Cinnamasta and Vajra Dakini, it is not very clear, the Indian source seems superior to me. Again, not saying these are wrong or do not work, but I think you really need the full preparation.

It is something like the "first league" of dakinis are the ones taught by Naro, Maitri, and Indrabhuti, and then the sequence in Chakrasamvara-related tantra is:

Jnana Dakini with Yogambara

Buddha Dakini with Mahamaya

Sarva Buddha Dakini--uncertain, other than a component of Cinnamasta

Buddhism generally overlooks the ajna center, and defines Cinnamasta as Tri-kaya Vajrayogini. That just means a Vajrayogini sadhana cultivated to the point where the meditator assumes her Body, Speech, and Mind, until the activated Cinnamasta eventually blows one's "self" away.

So the three red dakinis are famous, but, in Nepal, the fourth is alternately Red Guhyajnana Dakini--Blue Mahacina Tara; those are almost the same form at the same temple, wherein the Blue is restricted or concealed, and, according to them, is the basis for the penultimate Guhyeshvari. I know of nothing more esoteric. She is considered the top tier beyond the regular Prajnas, along with Vasudhara and Parasol. Vasudhara has major Hindu roots; Parasol is the major Usnisa daity, which is purely Buddhist, but she absorbs the Hindu Pratyangira, who is a Teevra Devata like Cinnamasta--extremely fierce, sharp, and dangerous to the practitioner or is said to outright kill devotees who toy around with it.

One of the main clues I find for dakinis is that they will do whatever you are serious about. Since the ordinary person is consumed by mortal, ignorant things, dakinis have no love for this and can cause all manner of harm. They will cheat or trick you if you have any mental holes that allow it. But, if you like what they actually do, unveiling ever-more-subtle layers of energy in the subtle body and increasing devotion to Dharma, then you never deviate, because if you do, they will.

One of the main Mahacina Tara origin legends is Vasistha going to find Buddha drinking, having sex, etc., and then he appeared as Narayan with the Mahashaktis. Studies on the Tantras (https://estudantedavedanta.net/Ramakrishna-Mission-Studies-on-the-Tantras.pdf) tries to "translate" this into something more palatable to orthodox Hindus:

To take the case of the vamacara (which means the ‘left’—viparlta
—and not the ‘left-handed’ path) again: In this the sadhaka
(aspirant) has to make use of a certain kind of ritual (technically
called the pancatattva) which, whilst leading admittedly to some
abuse in unsuitable cases and conditions, has made, in the judgement of those who do not understand and discriminate, the
whole cult of the Tantra suspect. Those who understand nothing
of the ‘return current’ or ‘reversing process’, involved in the
theory and practice of the so-called ‘left’ path, naturally fail to
perceive that there may be any points of contact between this
and the theory and practice of the Advaita Vedanta. Apart from
the face that a full-blooded counterpart of the essentials of the
pancatattva worship, in their ‘gross’, ‘proxy’, and ‘esoteric’ forms,
can be traced down to all the Vedic strata, and also apart from
the probability of a modified shape being given to, and a special
emphasis being laid on, the ancient, immemorial Vedic worship,
by influences coming from outside the limits of India proper
(e.g. Tibet or Mahacina), it ought to be recognized by all thinking
people that the pancatattva worship, in its principle and in its
tendency, is a legitimate form of the Advaita worship.



In Search of Bhagavati Tara (https://wayofdharma.com/2018/11/13/in-search-of-bhagavati-tara-part-1/) gives an account of Vasistha, and says that Mahacina Krama Tara was first, and that Ugra Tara was developed from her. Also:

In the setting of a smashāna – to those deeply involved in sādhana, the whole world may appear like one – Tārā is represented by the light emanating from a funeral pyre that acts as a guide in an otherwise lonely, fearsome and awe-inspiring atmosphere. Additionally, the snakes on her body are said to represent her control over the realm of pitr-s.

Both Mahacina sadhanas indicate laughter (loud and terrible) by Hasa.

Wrath is inevitable. It may be an individual matter to the degree of karma. I must be cursed. I am forced to live in a kill or be killed mentality. Not my choice. I am usually the most peaceful and patient person you could find, but, as I age, it just keeps getting worse. I am not a Bodhisattva, and wind up getting filled with rage according to things that would infuriate anyone. To be in Vajra Family would mean that anger is your normal reaction to anything, which certainly is not the case with me, I did have inner obstacles like that, but basic Green Tara helped me with such things a long time ago. Because I lack worldly power/am not equal to others, this probably places me in Karma Family...if I was equal in any kind of normal way, these things would not happen.

There is a tremendous gulf between the meditations and sadhanas I would like to do, versus my actual existence, which is lower than an animal, perhaps lower than an object.

Padmasambhava killed someone unnecessarily, although it was not out of rage, it was so he would be banished. I am perhaps a bit edgy about Vajrabhairava, since Rwa Lotsawa slew about a dozen rival teachers; eventually, Rwa and Nyan slew each other. That perhaps sounds strange if we have seen the Buddhist monk self-immolating over the Vietnam War. But there is no shortage of violence if we think of Shaolin; Bodhidharma was an expert at war, bringing the Indian Kalaripayattu fighting style which he blended with some old books found there, which were Chuan Fa "Fist Law" or something similar. They mainly had to protect themselves against armed bandits. But in Mahabharata or the story of Parasu Rama, there is such a large amount of death, truly staggering.

There is no use being intimidated by wrath, and usually, as a force, it is called "Anger, Remover of Obstacles". I suppose it is a matter of channeling it to appropriate targets, rather than stewing in it.

Ekajati Pratibaddha actually means "bound to one more birth" as for example Maitreya (http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/collections/journals/bot/pdf/bot_1982_02_04.pdf). However it still does mean highest stage of Bodhisattva-hood (http://shinranworks.com/glossary/). It is in the apparently one-sentence Amitabha Sutra (http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/DBLM/olcourse/sanskrit/amitabha/122.htm). Although the word has many meanings, in Buddhism, and overall, it mainly means Birth (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/jati#buddhism), and the notion "clotted hair" is an extremely minor usage, about like nutmeg. If you rake all possible meanings, it could be argued that Ekajati means One Reduction of Fractions to a Common Denominator. That might almost make sense, but, then you could say she is One Jasmine.

I always thought she was closer to Pali Eka Gatta "one pointedness" which is why sometimes shown with One Braid and so forth, however, this seems to be a trivial aspect of her compared to Vidyujjvalakarali Ekajati.

Sri Aurobindo is perhaps not too bad in a short piece on Dawn and Night (http://savitri.in/blogs/light-of-supreme/68-the-sisters-night-and-dawn-usha-and-nisha), which looks like a reasonable Vedic and English primer similar to Buddhist Marici and Ekajati. It speaks in terms of material creation, where again, tantra is Nirvritti or the reverse of this.

We might tend to think too heavily in terms of "material creation", whereas the real meaning is mental formation of shapes in root matter, and so Pravritti and Nirvritti are more like mental activities than creation in the usual sense, the outgoing and ingoing breath, structure and dissolution.

He also mentions Ocean-Dwelling Fire (http://www.collectedworksofsriaurobindo.com/index.php/readbook/24-Gopavana-Atreya-Vol-11-hymns-to-the-mystic-fire-volume-11) three times on p. 371 of Hymns to Mystic Fire. I am not quite sure how he means it, but, at least he has some view of Watery Fire perhaps as related to electricity.

HPB's Blue Lotus referred to Varuni as "originally heat" and then wine; although she also mentions "two Lakshmis", she does not appear to have the idea of Varuni as the daughter of Varuna's shakti Varuni. She does say that Lakshmi visits Varuni in Pushkara Lake. This name can mean a son of Varuna, or blue lotus, and also:

That the flower was early used for personal adornment is shown by an epithet of the Aśvins, ‘lotus-crowned’ (puṣkara-sraj).

Again, each type of lotus such as Kamala indicates a different color and slightly different meaning, blue commony beaing called Utpala. Blue Lotus (https://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/nightmar/night-4.htm) is a good short summary, she mentions Amrita, and it is just more Puranic than it makes the tantric Buddhist connections. Pushkar is often described in the scriptures as the only Brahma temple in the world, owing to the curse of Savitri, but also as the "King of the sacred places of the Hindus". So far, Mahattari is the only one specifically attributed a fiery blue lotus.

The "historical increase" of Varuni sounds to me like what the alchemists called Watery Fire, which was the quintessence of the Twelve Zodiacal, Seven Planetary, and Four Form Elements. Isaac Newton said this was variously called Isis, Juno, or Ceres, and personally referred to it as quintessence of chaos element, i. e. Mundus. He said it was represented by antimony or Magnesia Gebri. Magnesia is not a particular element, but all of them. "It is fiery, aery, earthy, watery. It is heat and dryness, humidity and cold. It is watery fire and fiery water. It is a corporeal spirit and a spiritual body. It is the condensed spirit of the world."

This, from below, links earth with heaven, as the heavenly quintessence links from above. He noted that the symbol for antimony was based on the orb held by Kings, symbol of a redeemed earth, a sphere surmounted by a cross. Only antimony is "the lawful son of the sun and the true sun of nature".

The Orb of Kings is the Earth Glyph, which fits to the Venus Glyph or Mirror or Ankh, which preserves the teaching that the "heavenly union" acquired by watery fire or antimony binds man to the formless kingdom, the Agnishvattas, which is Venus. Or, perhaps it is more accurate to say the Orb is Antimony, which is the Earth Glyph which has raised the cross above:

https://64.media.tumblr.com/44abca922bde3dbef1cc233383e642c5/1949b63373b25785-26/s640x960/89df63ea613db8d87a0552de3069b9e87328b918.jpg






For the color black, some Buddhist sadhanas speak of collyrium, which is eye make-up, or medicine, it can be a few different things, but the Egyptians seem to have used the black kind a lot. Another phrase is "black like newly-split antimony", which would occur if its vapor was rapidly cooled.

I am pretty sure the alchemical watery fire or antimony, being a type of refined compound, is the western parallel to what we are saying about the "base" of an inverted stupa joining the base of the deity's stupa. If Venus merges with the Orb, you get:

O
+
O

It is like having sacrificed everything to Agni, the material plane has been offered to the Agnishvattas, or Venus, or Lakshmi.

Buddhist Mantras in the form of Mandala Deities (https://www.waseda.jp/inst/wias/assets/uploads/2019/03/RB011_031-102.pdf) translates four chapters from Abhidanottara Tantra, the ones that detail the Four Chakrasamvara Mandalas. One is Armor Deities/Six Yoginis, then Seven Syllable mantra with Vajradaka, then the long Heruka mantra referring to Dakini Jala, and then Vairocani mantra.

It is centered on Varahi who in one instance arises from the letter Sri; it also has a version centered on Manjuvajra, which I did not know existed. The main difference with Samvarodaya Tantra is by using Vaiorcani within Armor Deities instead of Varahi; and again, this is sequential, since Vairocani produces Varahi. That is the main difference. Abhidanottara or Laghuna Samvara was probably composed first, however, the Samvarodaya is very "linky" by explaining Varuni as the source of Vairocani. This forces us to view the deities as tangible phases, moreso than a piece of praise to memorize. Chakrasamvara texts are designed to be inoperable; you have to fill in the blanks. That is why Varuni + Armor Deities is about the highest thing I would recommend as an outer Yoga devotee; the texts assert that this is what is used to become a Chakravartin, or i. e. master the Six Family Wheel as in Dakini Jala, which is really the oldest or original Chakrasamvara text, even though not called such by name. The reverse is true, Chakrasamvara hails Dakini Jala.

That is why I would say when yoga symbols and concepts become inner realities, Dakini Jala and Varuni are the most useful guides.

One can also find the yogini Vadava, Mare, the name of Mare's Mouth Ocean Fire, and although I am unsure if this is supposed to translate the thing into the human body, it may.

Samvarodaya's male-first Armor Deities also hosts Samvari, whom one might think means something like a female Chakrasamvara, however, at the end of a list of Shakti Pithas (http://saarcculture.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/HCT_Annexure-1.docx), she is found as an equivalent of Vimala, probably in Bengal.

The Varuni (https://www.academia.edu/31602621/Churned_from_the_Milk_Ocean_Invoked_into_a_Skull_Cup_The_Goddess_V%C4%81ru%E1%B9%87%C4%AB_in_Nepal) article is very recent and much better than the Mahacina one, and has the pieces that connect Varuni into Samvarodaya Tantra. She "is" the Inverted Stupa of anyone--or Sky element mixed into the sacred water/milk/soma--but for instance Varahi 225-226 very succinctly point to Inverted Stupa plus Armor Deities. There is not much way around it as being "the" method that begins all higher tantras.

Seven Syllable deity appears to continue using the "six yoginis" or Wrathful Prajnas, renamed and shuffled, to represent the Path more than Protection, however it is mainly a way to learn the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment, since the sadhana requires Varahi to enter Union. This mantra is equal to Reversed White Heruka, who is with White Vairocani, which is much simpler than Vajradaka, and is probably the "transition" where it is self-arisen, no longer a visualization with effort.

Samvarodaya chapters (https://pdfslide.us/documents/shinichi-tsuda-the-samvarodaya-tantra-selected-chapterspdf.html) or Arthur Avalon's (https://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Tantric-Texts-Series-07-Shri-Chakrasambhara-Buddhist-Tantra-Arthur-Avalon-1919.pdf) Chakrasamvara article or text (https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.92407/2015.92407.Tantrik-Texts-Vol7_djvu.txt).

[Old Student]

Ok. So "clear" is kind of any color, translucent or transparent?

Not really. Light green is the "natural" color. But that color gets things added to it in response to different kinds of bliss -- in different places, as the blue is an iridescent sheen on the surface, the yellow is a glow, the red is streaks.

The green and black metallic is a specific thing having to do with a particular generation, it is opaque. The yellow with red tinge is only pelvic and has a very specific thing, during which I don't have much body, I have instead deserts and bones and such.

The recent very dark night sky blue color is nearly opaque but isn't black like the black in the green and black. It is I think because my ribcage is more like the sky when it is crackling lightning than it is a body at times.


This is the Red Varahi who casts Inverted Stupa, and the phrase Urdhva Pada is "raised foot", which means Maitri Dakini. So we might contend that Vairocani is something fostered by Tapas, whereas Varnani is perhaps a bit higher, has no Hindu equivalent that I know of right off hand, and takes Generation Stage for granted.

I edited to put this in, I had intended to say it but forgot. Does the "raised foot" really indicate a hierarchy? Vajrayogini is seen in multiple stances, one is raised foot but not all.
The other thing is that at least for part of the internet sourcing, Varnani is synonymous with Varuni?


One of the main clues I find for dakinis is that they will do whatever you are serious about. Since the ordinary person is consumed by mortal, ignorant things, dakinis have no love for this and can cause all manner of harm. They will cheat or trick you if you have any mental holes that allow it. But, if you like what they actually do, unveiling ever-more-subtle layers of energy in the subtle body and increasing devotion to Dharma, then you never deviate, because if you do, they will.

Interesting. There are things I do or don't do I suppose based on the fact that I have to live up to my part of the bargain. What I feel like I get out of it is to continue to learn and train. So I guess that fits this description.

The article by Buhnemann about Mahacina Krama Tara both says she is the earliest and speculates that perhaps she comes from Bon. There is a belief that Mahacina is the Sutlej valley -- which would make it Tholing, the ancient capital of Guge. That fits with what I had read before that Cina is Ngari or Guge, and Mahacina adds Ladakh. The area also goes back for Bon, because it is not far from the ancient capital of Shang Shung, Khyunglung, Khyung meaning the horned eagle of the Shang Shung.

[shaberon]

Not really. Light green is the "natural" color. But that color gets things added to it in response to different kinds of bliss -- in different places, as the blue is an iridescent sheen on the surface, the yellow is a glow, the red is streaks.



Allright. It may not exactly match what I meant by "spectra", but it is close. In the fields of color, for example, everything could become conditioned by a relatively crude green--orange axis, or, a finer pink-yellow one. The "external rainbow" I saw is far below what I expect you mean by rainbow bliss--in fact it is not really any different than diffraction:

https://psychonautwiki.org/w/xthumb.php,qf=Diffraction.jpg,awidth=449.pagespeed.ic.VxeFLMLVAS.webp




Which perhaps is just a result of dilation. One of the few "subtle muscles" I have ever been able to control is dilation.

The lightish-green hue however is pervasive, something like a "base", on which other kinds of light begin. I think it is bio-luminescence, since even a rock is considered alive. But then if one "ascends" the scale, the rock lacks the "higher correspondence" of a human being, its Golden Egg. "Bioluminescence" is not completely the scientific kind, but close. Maybe it is infra-red. I do not know an esoteric term for this light yet. It does not match most aura pictures. More pale than solid or fiery. It is part of the physical plane, whereas the egg is not. I would like to find the right word and picture, but, overall, I would have to say that yes, the yellowish-green is "natural", or inherent, something like a paint base into which...other appearances can be mixed, which may be many and variegated...until, "above" that, is a stage that is simpler, but much more saturated, that perhaps could be called opaque color.

In the Signs associated with Dissolution, it has been debated whether the first is Marici--Mirage or Dhuma--Smoke, but, after these, the pattern is pretty specific. In actual use, I think the ordinary person would have tremendous difficulty with Khadyota--Fireflies, while it is probably possible to experience the first one or two of these and just file it as "weird".

A mirage can shimmer, and smoke naturally roils, and whichever one it is, is related to this kind of motion:

https://psychonautwiki.org/w/thumb.php?f=White_Wolf_Drinking_Water_by_Anonymous.gif&width=454





Smoke matches the "get there" sadhana which places Amoghasiddhi--Smoke deities at the top end, and so, if you did that "with effort", then, it would make sense that smoke continues as the first "without effort" or self-arising Sign, being similar to this wolf. Mirage, on the other hand, could perhaps apply to the yellowish-green glow, in which case, it is probably fair to say, well, you might be able to detect this first, without the motion. Fireflies is not an appropriate term for either one of these, but more like them mixing and bursting.

Part of what we are doing is like a "set of brakes" to closely examine the stages. It is like if one is able to do the Four Joys, it is not a "plummet", it means the bodhicitta rests in each chakra for a period of time. So when we slow down to get a good look at smoke or mirage, if we have the right internal energy, eventually it would open to the next stage; if not, it will cease.

Dissolution does not mean seeing a physical aura or an astral or Kama Rupa form. I can see all that in ordinary waking consciousness. Seeing the ordinary forms is a Laukika Siddhi (mundane) similar to astral projection or Mayavi Rupa or Illusory Body. Melting the assembly of Tathagatas is not ordinary waking consciousness.

It is not quite clear how much tantric inspiration may be Bon, or perhaps Tengri would be a more widespread similar term, but there is something to say that would not be Tibetan, probably originating around Turkestan and Lake Baikal. That seems to be the meaning of Uttara Kuru, Great North Country, which must have been important for Yogacara, since Yajnawalkya is said to have gone there.

What also seems to come out from Buhnemann's articles is that--in terms of detailed tantric sadhanas--Buddhist Mahacina Tara is likely the origin of Hindu Ugra Tara, like Varuni is probably the origin of Hindu Ananda Bhairavi. That means something like Buddhism did not invent the deities, or powers of nature, which were already recognized by Hindu or Tengri people, but refined and elaborated the practice. In the most blatant terms this does involve blood sacrifice and left-hand symbolism and converting it to Dharma, which is certainly extended by many more esoteric things. In Buddhism, we find some amount of "discovered" deities such as Usnisa, but a large part of it is "converted" Hinduism. After all, one could not suddenly reproduce a geography full of Pithas, the same ones have to be used or shared between traditions.

So far, with a little review, it is easy to establish certain basic deities with fundamentals, such as Four Arm Sita Tara does Blue Lotus Mudra, Mahattari Tara holds a Flaming Blue Lotus, and Mahacina Krama Arya Tara is Vajra Kartri or Chopper. Many of the authors fail to really ask the questions about practice and inner meaning. I would say each of those is not a theory, incidence, or archaeological legacy, those are all very direct and deep into the heart of spirituality. As art forms, most people can easily say, well, Mahacina is like a blue version of Guhyajnana Dakini, but they are vastly different, one is like Hrim and the chopper cutter of ego, the other is like Hrih and dakinis.

How, exactly, Ekajati may have been known in the "previous milieu" is near impossible to determine, since again here it appears the name has a specific meaning in Buddhism that could not possibly have this meaning in any other tradition, since it means to hold this shakti is the state of Vajradhara, and one will become a Buddha in the next lifetime. Because this means something other than a Mukti or person liberated into nirvana by other means, it is not possible for Ekajati to be exactly the same, by this name or by a synonym, anywhere else.

In her large sadhana, Tara of Ekajati Amnaya is really called Vajra Bimba. Although this (male) name applies to Vajrapani in STTS, as female, she is this, and also found in certain limited retinues. The meaning of "Bimba" can be an original orb, such as the sun or moon; a reflection or image of it; and we have also found in Buddhist texts it means the "icon circle", i. e. mandala.

The main tantric bliss in common-speak is called Sahaja, however, in Buddhism, this is supposed to be a pretty specific thing related to the Four Chakras. But, we do have a minor jumble of technical terms for the Four Joys, as well as the fact that for Buddha and in Kalachakra there are Sixteen, based from Sixteen kinds of voidness.

So far, we have not counted the ascent of Inner Heat as being part of this. It may certainly be pleasant, but, should not really be counted as the First Joy until it penetrates the ring of Dhyanis and Prajnas and melts the bodhicitta of the head. I am not sure if these older sources are fumbling with the systems, or, if the following is clarifying. The partial Samvarodaya translation is a thesis from 1974 which also refers to Dasgupta (https://selfdefinition.org/tantra/Dasgupta-An-Introduction-to-Tantric-Buddhism.pdf) who made an early Buddhist tantric book in the English language there.

So it is slightly unclear to me; there is a correspondence between the Moon and the vowels, which can be taught at a Kriya level, meaning formal or exoteric repetition as a learning device. But then the same thing holds true in the tantric experience or the Lokottara Siddhis, Generation and Completion Stages. And so in the following, we find the unusual term "Utpanna", whereas we are more accustomed to Nispanna for Completion:

Verse 21 refers to digits of the moon (kala). Dasgupta, without showing his source, makes a very useful suggestion concerning kala ; he mentions the relation between the four kinds of anandas and sixteen kalas as follows : Of the sixteen digits of the moon, the first five represent nanda, up to the tenth is Paramananda, up to the fifteenth is Viramananda and the sixteenth represents Sahajananda. This is exactly applicable here ; the yogini is the sixteenth digit of the moon means that mahasukha-kaya is equivalent to sahajananda. The same situation is mentioned in verse 23 ; her nature is sahajananda means that the nature or essence (svabhava) of mahasukha-kaya is sahajananda. In the abode of truth , mahasukha-kaya is in the form of pleasure. Mahasukha-kaya is the support of buddhas and bodhisattvas, the holder of diamond. She is formed of the four (kinds of) joy in the form of (both) cause and result means that mahasukha-kaya which is itself sahajananda includes all four anandas; the word mahasukha- kaya means mahasukha itself, that is a kind of buddha-kaya. Mahasukha-kaya is the expression of the aspect of supreme joy of the ultimate reality and comparable to the aspect of ananda of Brahman. The first line of verse 22 alludes to Avadhuti; mahasukha-kaya Dasgupta, op. cit. p. 176.2 Dasgupta incoherently reconstructs this passage as follows:

Inside is the Yogini of sixteen kalas or digits of the moon. op. cit., p. 148.68 is figuratively expressed as Avadhuti. The expression in the conventional truth, she is like a kunda-flower may suggest the same idea; kunda-fiower alludes to bodhicitta (see 8-31). From these discussions, we find that this image of the human body, the theory of the four cakras, offers a well-organized methodology of utpanna-krama, the ascending process which leads to the ultimate reality. In other words, it provides theoretical proof that it is possible to attain enlightenment through the medium of the human body. The relationship between the ultimate reality and the individual existence. In the problems we have already discussed, those of utpatti- krama and utpanna-krama have already been included. In the discussion of the ultimate reality, we have already alluded to the theoretical side of the utpatti-krama. It is the emanation of the phenomenal world from jnana {sarvajnajnana) as the dharmakaya of the buddha, or expressed differently, it is the self-evolution (parinama) of the fundamental consciousness (alaya- vijnana) ; these are mentioned in chapter 4. The practical aspect of the utpatti-krama is the ritual of imagining (chapter 13) or constructing (chapter 17) or taking part in (chapter 8) the mandala. Utpanna-krama actually designates the various practices conducted for the attainment of the ultimate reality.


I am not sure what he means by "ascending process". If you have rising heat, and then the descent of bodhicitta, you might start looking for a whole bunch of ways to classify it. He misses the important practical point. If one is able to manmifest Four Joys, then, the fourth means the white bodhicitta has entered the fiery navel, which turns it to Cool Mercury or Rasa. This is the point which is supposed to be called Sahaja, and then the additional progression of Joys are all Sahaja. And so in other words, if you mean the ascent of Mercury, yes, this is Sahaja, but there is not much of a way that it could correspond to a sixteenth division as Dasgupta says. And since we can list the sources, such as Naro uses "Ananda" terminology, then it seems Dasgupta may have stretched it out. He says Ananda and others are each five joys, so they are making large blocks of stages, instead of being individual. This may be provisionally accurate, if you mean the five senses for example, but I think he may have taken a Kriya or Yoga explanation and attached it to Completion Stage.

The continuity of the idea is perhaps the whole set of Sixteen applies to the highest stage that "you" can do, whereas for Buddha it is sixteen fully individual stages.

As practice, we are probably better assisted by the Four Dakinis Ha Ri Ni Sa or Lama, Khandaroha, Rupini, and Dakini. These seem somewhat malleable and can be Four Chakras, or the crown center, or four petals at the core of the heart, which is going to remain and just become more subtle and more powerful through all the tantras. The Gauris are Asta Vijnana or Eight Consciousnesses, the Tramen are their Objects, I suppose on a mind-only plane, compared to something like Sight Object, which could be physical or transitional.

The nearness of the Dakinis is that if you have Avalokiteshvara, then Guhyajnana Dakini is really his heart, and she has the dakinis. When considering Nyasa in terms of Pithas of the body, dakinis are nerves or nadis. The Nyasa is a placement or covering, whereby it is typical to array a mantra's syllables onto one's body, which is normally exterior. The Armor Deities are the crucial advancement of this. They have a male-first set, which again is on the surface, and then a female-first set, which is for the chakras, with Amoghasiddhi and Candi taking care of the rest of the branch nerves or "whole surface". Because these are wrathful, it pertains to the reflexive brain consciousness, cooking vrttis off of oneself. After this is the Nyasa that represents the tantric centers and psychic nerves, usually twenty-four.

Armor Deities are Six Families equivalent to Dakini Jala. It is correct that they have a full sadhana centered on Vajravarahi, and then, she is replicated as the beginning of her own set of Armor Deities. And so this is how all of the Chakrasamvara series works, except for Samvarodaya, which replaces her with Vairocani. And so if Varuni is capable of manifesting them with Varahi, then she must be capable of doing it with Vairocani. The tantra states that Varuni contains Vairocani, and the teaching continues that this produces Varahi, whereas Varuni appears to absorb into Khandaroha. In Nepal, Vajradhara is able to emanate Varuni with Armor Deities. Varuni is not repeated among them, so it is showing six distinct elements. If we think in Samvarodaya terms, the first one is not Varahi but Vairocani, otherwise it is the same:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/3/3/1/3314475.jpg


At the places of my body on moon mandala cushions are:

at navel, red OM VAM, Bandhuka Orange Vajravairocani; at heart, blue HAM YOM, Yamini; at throat, white HRIM MOM, Mohani; at forehead, yellow HREM HRIM, Sachalani; at crown, green HUM HUM, Samtrasani; and at all my limbs, grey PHAT PHAT, Chandika.

The spoken Armor mantra uses two syllables, but the visualized Armor is just the deity's seed syllable (the second) on a moon cushion. Many sadhanas overlook male armor deities and then males completely. They are cast counter-clockwise starting with the red one on the lower right. Therefor the artist has done something strange compared to any version by not using a smoky color.

So for example the crown is protected by Trasani of Wrathful Jewel Family. Armor Deities appear to use their own names for wrathful prajnas; in this case, Vairocani is with Vajrasattva, which would fuse her to Vajra Gharvi/Vajrasattvatmika/Vajra Ghanta. Marici is Vajrasattva Ishvari. Therefor, Vairocani is the method or path of enlightenment in Gnosis Family, i.e. is the transmutation of the practitioner's mind and inner principles, and Marici is the Full Enlightenment this draws from. Yamini is in Vajra Family, which is the Heruki or Heruka Samnivesa of Dakini Jala. And again, because we are trying to formulate Six Families into a mystical seventh, in Dakini Jala, the Vajrasattva Family Wrathfuls may also be represented by Vajradhara with Samvari (Vimala--Katyayani). And so it is like he does not exist, and is only barely theoretically real until Vajrasattva is something like a fuel one runs on. Such a Vajrasattva is Mudita or the First Bhumi, and Vimala is after that, and yet she is Kumari and Bala Kumari, Sixteen or Sodashi and Nine or Nava Yauvana.

Many of Varuni's things are similar to those of other deities, but even with Eighteen Arms, she has one face. A shield is unusual. One of her hands has been called Bindu Mudra, dipping and flicking nectar at you, or counting, time, or rhythm. She usually emerges from a fish or is on one. If seated, her knees are elevated and bound by a cloth.

Although she fosters Khandaroha, she is Mam-arisen because she is Mamaki (Guhyeshvari). Because Guhyeshvari has a universal 1,000 Arm form, this constitutes her Eighteen Arm worshippable form. So it is fully legitimate to pin the whole Dakini Jala on this. Since that is a Secret Doctrine of Vajrayogini, then it is feasible to see Vajrayogini as Ziro Bhusana, which by definition includes Guhyajnana and the Four Dakinis. It may seem like a lot of deities but it is fairly robust according to the teaching. We can compare it to a Guhyeshvari and Varuni manuscript and come very close to the same thing.

It is even more if following the Apri Hymns by inviting Sarasvati, Ila, and Bhu, one's own Yidam, and Agni, but this is the intent of the whole Samputa tradition of Abhayakaragupta and the Vajravali corpus of sadhanas. Also, the Ila and Bhu earth deity type of Vasudhara bond is the other important precursor to Varahi, and Bhu still being considered a Witness to Final Enlightenment along with Aparajita.

Varuni is the flow of Amrita from the first successful drop up to unlimited.

That is why she is the one taste or method and all of the tantric sadhanas are based through her, are being adorned onto this explanatory thangka.

It uses the Inverted Stupa, which is given in the same format by Thunderbolt Ekajati and the Varahi before Armor Deities.

That is why it is mainly this that is the detailed Yoga focus in Generation Stage, especially in its first parts, Bindu-Nada, Crescent, and Triangle. This Agni Triangle is the Navel, the Nirmana Chakra or important origin point of dakinis and collected inner fire, which is represented in the sadhana frequently by a red torma triangle with one or more skullcups. The detailed explanation says that one is Varuni's Soma, and two are the tantric meats and nectars. The uncommon explanation may use a fourth skullcup for the blended version, and that this becomes glowing orange and is our heat we seek to thread into the Avadhut.

If the cups are properly purified, then yes, they should remain as pots of rainbow liquid. They are pretty small but you can find four of them in many of the Yoganirutara mandalas. The heating of the mixture to make it rise can be handled by powerful deities such as Ghasmari, and there is frequently a Rasa or Taste goddess involved in a ritual, who of all people may be Vetali. Although this is internal, it is still a sacred ceremony like a Eucharist or something. And so when working properly, it does cultivate Four Joys, up to the point of establishing Mercury, which has to be purified in a different way, which I did not know. So if you don't purify this, maybe it is something like placing psychic heavy metals into your system, perhaps that is what happened to me.

So what happens if you do not harness rainbow liquid into the quadrants, I am not sure. The sadhanas are trying to organize and harmonize, which seems to be one of the main points in Four Dakinis mantra, these are natural forces which could be anything from too loud to too quiet. Guhyajnana is like a hostess and conductor, if you are serious about getting her to do it. Come what may, she is still the heart of Karuna--Compassion, the relief of misery wherever found.

Varuni and nectar can also be seen as a precursor to Bharati, which is that aspect of Vasudhara that has Mahasukha with Jambhala. That is the majority of the "weaving", along with Ganapati and Vira Vajradharma.

Vairocani can be yellow or white in other sadhanas; here, she has a rare or unique color.

Bandhuka or Goji-ka:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jMrOk71fu2o/VfxHV685sWI/AAAAAAAANY8/5BCN8m_8NaY/s1600/flor-impia-Pentapetes-phoenicea.jpg





Varuni with knees bound:

http://jinajik.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Varuni_20170404.jpg

[Old Student]

...what I expect you mean by rainbow bliss...
This is the right brightness and mixing. (https://garden.spoonflower.com/c/9337833/r/s/d-m-53/lPVBgpN-IWM96HBWxJU29hoGWmdYjA1bLt4/Electric_Liquid_Rainbow_Psychedelic_Pswirls.jpg) But it doesn't capture how it moves, which is more like this. (https://d3jbhadj57dczt.cloudfront.net/preview-757831-3scCntImkS-high.mp4)
That's a thing, a liquid, that fills me up. The colors on clear body are sort of like if you picture yourself as being light green, and when you have a strong surging feeling it changes your color like a mood ring.

The diffraction rainbows are more like the rainbow drop that Mandarava shows sometimes. She does it to remind me that everything beautiful to look at is made of colors and colors are made of mist which blows away to nothing in an instant.


The lightish-green hue however is pervasive, something like a "base", on which other kinds of light begin. I think it is bio-luminescence, since even a rock is considered alive.

Bioluminescence is actually a great analogy, I'm glad you thought of it. Okay, so think of a jellyfish under ultraviolet light. It's clear, you can see through it, but it has a color and glows.


In the Signs associated with Dissolution, it has been debated whether the first is Marici--Mirage or Dhuma--Smoke, but, after these, the pattern is pretty specific. In actual use, I think the ordinary person would have tremendous difficulty with Khadyota--Fireflies, while it is probably possible to experience the first one or two of these and just file it as "weird".

Great pic of the wolf.
The fireflies isn't actually more complicated, if you thought of someone being down to a few "corners" or edges of glowing light, think of the glow as a set of points, and then think of them flying away in different directions. The hardest part of the dissolve (from my shaking), which I'm not sure is the same as this dissolution, is the feeling of giving up or letting go or whatever it is. Once I can get through that, if I remain cognizant, which is an if, everything about it is too spectacular to worry about what one isn't anymore.


If the cups are properly purified, then yes, they should remain as pots of rainbow liquid. They are pretty small but you can find four of them in many of the Yoganirutara mandalas. The heating of the mixture to make it rise can be handled by powerful deities such as Ghasmari, and there is frequently a Rasa or Taste goddess involved in a ritual, who of all people may be Vetali. Although this is internal, it is still a sacred ceremony like a Eucharist or something. And so when working properly, it does cultivate Four Joys, up to the point of establishing Mercury, which has to be purified in a different way, which I did not know. So if you don't purify this, maybe it is something like placing psychic heavy metals into your system, perhaps that is what happened to me.

I have to think about this. It seems to be saying that beyond putting the right things at the Nirmana Chakra, there is a purifying thing that has to be done to make them into the rainbow liquid? In my shaking, I had told you before, and quoted from my notes, there is a cauldron a vessel of creation from which the rainbow liquid is generated. There are liquid blisses (not sure if that's the right plural) that are created, but the liquid expands and fills from a cauldron - lake - ocean (as it gets bigger) that fills, but I do not perceive it as created, it seems very essential and primordial.

I am currently wrestling with two new identities -- a two-armed female deity who is "seated" in badda-konasana and pulls on something or holds something, it seems like pulling on thread, and another two-armed in tandava dancing position who either has right hand in shuni mudra and left holding something or the shuni mudra may be it is holding something as well.

If the thread pulling is threading that would predispose towards Marici, but I can't be sure, it feels more like pulling and straightening a thread like that was unraveled from something. The other one I've only seen once so I am scant on details.

[Old Student]

If the thread pulling is threading that would predispose towards Marici, but I can't be sure, it feels more like pulling and straightening a thread like that was unraveled from something.
What about Kalasiddhi? She spins and weaves and was enjoined by Yeshe Tsogyal that without joining bliss and emptiness, it is senseless. And Kala can mean tongue.

[shaberon]

I have to think about this. It seems to be saying that beyond putting the right things at the Nirmana Chakra, there is a purifying thing that has to be done to make them into the rainbow liquid? In my shaking, I had told you before, and quoted from my notes, there is a cauldron a vessel of creation from which the rainbow liquid is generated. There are liquid blisses (not sure if that's the right plural) that are created, but the liquid expands and fills from a cauldron - lake - ocean (as it gets bigger) that fills, but I do not perceive it as created, it seems very essential and primordial.



Here I would say the cauldron itself is Bharati and its contents are Varuni. If you have a self-arisen Kurukulla, it would be commensurate you have a self-arisen Bharati. It sounds a lot to me you are at an energetic equivalent of the higher stages of what we are calling Inverted Stupa.

To be more clear about the liquid, in the first sense, we are talking about meats and nectars, as one's skandhas. The "meats" are to be visualized as skin suits without bones which are stuffed with a ground meat paste of that being., And these are rotated or swirled and mixed which is for the first Nectar. Yes, it is thought of as purifying or non-dualizing the skandhas, which is one and the same act as watching the substances melt in the cups. This is how a person should generate it "with effort". If it is spontaneously present, then you must have the inner meaning of the abandonment of the "accumulations" or skandhas.

As a Vajrayogini sadhana, I am just talking about Inverted Stupa and the use of Varuni to interface with a Yoga deity. And so then we are talking about purifying the mixture and making it get Orange hot. And so here, I think, is the point in the structured sadhana where notions of visualizations are clearly tied to an unusual and somewhat definable physical condition. That means the progression of the sadhana assumes an "if--then" format. If this phase fairly closely corresponds to Tapas, then it means you are not doing it until you feel some kind of warmth, and you don't extend or add anything else until the Orange glow is palpably real. At that point there is no way you are blindly following some written formula, it forces you to experience it for yourself.

Then if we think of it as only being somewhat after that phase that the full mandala could be what it is supposed to be, Chakrasamvara has for his inner retinue the Four Heart Dakinis at the cardinal points, and:

Upon each of the four inter-cardinal petals of this Wheel of Great Bliss appears a golden vase with a white skull-cup resting on its top, with each skull containing various 'nectars' that symbolize the 'four-fold offering' to the sense-goddesses of sight, smell, taste and touch.

Those "are" more or less a continuation of cups as we are discussing them for Generation Stage, except it has its own instructions. Different traditions may use only one cup for everything, and we are just saying that three cups of the Agni Triangle blended to a fourth is the same amount as in Chakrasamvara. We have an extra cup, compared to most, who do not think of the addition of Varuni.

Now if we did manage to get our Orange concoction heated and we were successful in the Pranayama, eventually we would melt the White Ham, or Moon, or Shiva's Trident, in fact it occurred to me that it could perhaps be melted by the touch of Ziro Bhusana's Trident to one's own, there are a handful of related symbols used for the white seed, and I guess we would have to say the one used in a particular tantra is correct for that tantra.

And if we can get that far and stabilize it, I would say the rest of it is in a way less challenging. If you can get it going, then, you probably can increase from the First Joy to Four Joys without that much difficulty. If successful with Four, you would obtain the Mercury. And it is this which is said to be actually dangerous. You have to purge the taste, smell, and "energy" or karma from it, which renders it into the true Nectar called Medicine, Immortality, and Wisdom. And so if the prior stages were largely about Bliss, at this point we have something supported by it.

That one is the magical agent, or initiation, or enabler of Transference. It is this we might try to surpass the Brahmarandra and enter Sunya above the head. I personally do not have a more sacred concept or any other direction other than it is this that makes of one a Bodhisattva and alert to Buddha's Teaching.

Padmasambhava consorts such as Kalasiddhi are Nirmanakaya of Vajravarahi. When that happens I stop, or, by contrast to Tara--who is a Yoga deity that I have a samaya to--if something starts to be about the actual, real Varahi--I just kneel and shut up.

The thread question is interesting and I am not sure if anyone ever questioned Marici's thread. Marici is a Tara, so, I feel somewhat justified in speculating that her Needle, Suci, is the same as Agni of that name, Solar Fire. The only thing that comes to mind that is similar is that Touch Offering Goddess usually carries a piece of silk.

The thing about Fireflies, in terms of the Dissolutions of Death, to dissolve something here means that you totally lose a piece of reality because a sense is gone. And so your mind or what's left of your body will probably start feeling very wrong, and there are a few descriptions of what that may be like here, but a rough standard is:

I am on fire.

That is for an ordinary, unprepared being, and so if you are well prepared, it will be nothing, it will not affect you.

Or, as you mentioned, "if I remain cognizant". The two main keys for it to be Buddhism is that lucidity is maintained, and it does so without Hindrances. And for example, if I was lucid and I thought it was interesting and how tremendous it was that I am not ordinary and understand Fireflies to be harmless, I might like them, I might form an Attachment. It would look a lot like spiritual progress, but, it would just be a new way of revealing how I sin against Pandara. And then for example we have a situation where I have to prove to the Fireflies I am not going to sin against them in seven ways, not even against Vajradhara, and I cannot even wake up in the morning without doing that, how can I possibly handle it against an abstract tantric Sign?

That is what I mean about the difficulty in getting the protections and wisdoms from the sadhanas, it would not even be Buddhist just to say I experienced Fireflies in some way, let alone did I fail to clean the Mercury.

And so, a long time ago, if it seemed important to say "there is such a thing as Ratnasambhava", I can now say that was almost utterly meaningless until now, where I can just go Vajra Surya, even if I do not comprehend it all, it actually does have its own energy with some degree of meaning, some degree of difference from other categories, and a type of feeling. That is what makes it begin to be useful.

[Old Student]

A lot to think about, thanks.


Padmasambhava consorts such as Kalasiddhi are Nirmanakaya of Vajravarahi. When that happens I stop, or, by contrast to Tara--who is a Yoga deity that I have a samaya to--if something starts to be about the actual, real Varahi--I just kneel and shut up.

The thread question is interesting and I am not sure if anyone ever questioned Marici's thread. Marici is a Tara, so, I feel somewhat justified in speculating that her Needle, Suci, is the same as Agni of that name, Solar Fire. The only thing that comes to mind that is similar is that Touch Offering Goddess usually carries a piece of silk.

It was a thought. She (the one who identifies to me) is yellow in color. Kala normally means black, but here is supposed to mean either fluids or essences or something, and Kalasiddhi is supposedly related to Ratnasambhava. What seemed relevant was that what she weaves is male and female -- emptiness and bliss.

Marici is also yellow. I had just gone looking for threads, you are right, no one talks about Marici's thread, just the needle. Kalasiddhi spins thread during the day and weaves by night, but no talk of her pulling threads out of the weave or straightening them.

What the new one does is make me "summons". This is a new thing over the last few days, it seems to be the way in which the energy obstacle between the bliss I am capable of generating if every single part of me is doing nothing but working to generate bliss, and what is needed. When I summons, my arms and hands surge and bliss and electricity together begin to flow in slightly cupped palms and then I push it with my hands, it goes into me and makes things of really big energy happen -- last night it was opening the jewel. This has happened spontaneously in "travels" around my body during other shakings, I think I have told you before that inside of it (it's at my throat and is Kurukulla's baby) is interpenetration -- infinities and vast choirs and grottos and vistas and so forth. So last night the summons was surged directly into the root of my tongue, all sorts of stuff sprang into action in my mouth and above and below, I had to be told by the Dakinis to swallow at one point just short of probably choking on the gush of saliva. I then went to a pose, hands out palms forward feet downward, feeling like the standing depiction of a thousand armed being, every bit shaking and completely in dissolve, when the jewel was a combination of the interpenetration infinite space, and a wheel with very light but discernible spokes like the wheel of law.

The previous thing that was headless was also throatless, this was adding the throat.

So that's what she does, is push that summons thing. I spent the whole night repeatedly going into that sort-of-thousand-armed state, and sleeping or being various things in the interludes. When I felt like I was in my physical body, I either felt like I was merging with the breeze or everything around me felt wet (and was not physically wet at all).


Or, as you mentioned, "if I remain cognizant". The two main keys for it to be Buddhism is that lucidity is maintained, and it does so without Hindrances.

I agree, but the normal thing is to start out lucid and maintain it while trying to enter a state, and for shaking I have to start with entering the state and try to preserve that entering while striving for lucidity. It's like two processes to arrive at "doing not doing" (為無為, wei wuwei), one which starts with doing and tries to move to doing not doing and the other that starts with not doing and tries to work back to doing not doing.


If successful with Four, you would obtain the Mercury. And it is this which is said to be actually dangerous. You have to purge the taste, smell, and "energy" or karma from it, which renders it into the true Nectar called Medicine, Immortality, and Wisdom.
[...]
...it would not even be Buddhist just to say I experienced Fireflies in some way, let alone did I fail to clean the Mercury.

Interesting, this notion of Mercury. The Daoists have an expression, Cinnabar Field (丹田 dantian), which means tons of different things, from pill of elixir of immortality to Elysian Fields to the place where energy is generated for doing internal boxing. In it, one is supposed to set up a cauldron and cook an elixir out of cinnabar -- which is mercury ore. I worked on that while working on related things Buddhist (mostly Tummo) before I had started shaking. It's kind of the Neidan (which literally means "inner cinnabar" but is usually "inner elixir" and is usually translated "alchemy") version of cooking the 'short Ah' syllable before sending it up the sushumna to melt the Hum at the heart for blazing and dripping.

[shaberon]

That is powerful.

I am not familiar with every bit of lore in Buddhism, especially a lot of the revealed bits from Nyingma. So Kalasiddhi is unfamiliar to me. It makes sense that in a Five Varahi pattern, one of them must be Jewel Family. The closest correspondence I can make is that Padmasambhava is in Lotus Family, and it was his associate Vimalamitra who was seen as an equally-powerful transmitter of similar tantra centered on Jewel Family, as is the Guyhagarbha--Book of the Dead, same idea.

I do not know of other "thread" deity correspondences besides the track of "Picu" deities is based in cotton and weaving, and the historical Bhrkuti used a loom, which is still preserved. The deity Bhrkuti can be yellow but does not usually appear as a dakini or display sewing implements. And so in all these cases, what can be said is they are all "obscured", the concept of Jewel Family tantra is basically unpublished, and the Indian idea of Bhrkuti seems to have little in common with the Tibetan version which features her angry scowl. She is peaceful, an agent of Lotus Family, and seems to be a bit more important than I originally gave her credit for. Usually, yellow is a "likely" appearance of Jewel Family, but none of that is a 100% rule, since there is a Yellow Bhrkuti, or a Yellow Janguli in Vajra Family. These are probably cross-currents, like if we take a major occult definition to be "Earth Element is Yellow", we would eventually get to "Earth of Water" and the other sub-divisions which may change it.

Yellow Vairocani "is" Varahi, except there is no pig feature, I think this is the last preliminary or thing we seek to "self-arise", before the ability to do a real, full mandala, or effective Chakrasamvara rite. This full or upgraded Yellow is an ingredient for Orange, which is obscure, but mostly part of Long Life and Nectar practice.

I am not sure that Kagyu strictly follows the pattern of Sakya's Three Reds, but it is close. And so, for whatever reason, Red Vajrayogini is the most well-known or considered the main form of her. And then in most depictions, we will find that the "energetic increases", i. e. the drinking Naro Dakini and the flying Maitri dakini, are at the top. Vajrayogini however fails to make a Five Family Pattern most of the time--she has a Yellow Vairocani, Green Pranava, and Blue Krodha Kali, but White is suppressed off most of the images:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/6/1/0/61090.jpg








Maybe it is because Vairocani can be White or Yellow, but the White form has no existence apart from Union with White Heruka. Yellow Vairocani Vajrayogini has a basic form:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/2/40273.jpg




which is not noticeable except for her color. The other form is a unique Kurma Padi (Tortoise Pose) who has begun to drink:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/2/40275.jpg




Taranatha 36 subtitles her as Lady of the Wheeld, Khorlo dBang Phyugma, and says she is Hrih-arisen. Tibetan Deities 85 says Vam and adds a Dharmodaya at her navel marked with Vam. Neither one says she is drinking. The trampled Bhairava is supposed to be black. There is a Kurmacakra (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kurmacakra) which is a mandala used to determine if a place is auspicious, and a Kurmanadi (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kurmanadi) at the heart, but I am not sure about this standing position which is not Kurmasana.

It may also refer to Kurma avatar, which is prior to Vamana, prior to Varaha, or even Kasyapa as "Tortoise".

Those are the only ways I know of that Vairocani exists, until she is folded into Varahi and Cinnamasta.

I would tend to guess Tortoise stance is like what we call the Crescent.

It is part of why, so far, Yellow is the most important occult color. Again, it has taken over the earth plane or element as the Nirmana Chakra, which makes no sense materially, only Noumenally. Then Yellow, or, luminous gold, becomes the most important color on Buddha, or Sita, or Lakshmi, and attaches to the mysterious existence of Mercury, also as the One Initiator, Dragon Tree, Nagarjuna, Avadhut, and so on.

It is not an earthly yellow, since the root derivation of color is "to conceal", and the occult colors are like a right-angle view of ordinary colors which opens or unveils them, which seems to me usually begins with an all-around pale yellowish-greenish glow, which is not quite this exalted display of Yellow--fiery gold, but is a sign or basis in approaching it.

"Feels wet" sounds a bit like Earth dissolving into Water, and so it is likely you are being "held" at this point until you muster every tiny little atomic aspect of it. Again, this does not mean you will not glimpse peaks or highlights of additional stages, but, as a whole, "you will not pass" until the first one is perfectly plain.

You will probably be better off than me, it is like I was given the keys to a dragster, but have difficulty in bringing an ordinary car to the racetrack.

The Cinnabar is probably a type of corollary code showing that Mercury is bound inside something, and is to be extracted and purified. So I think it is very close. It is the most subtle physiological thing that I will swear under oath is real, it is not like inner heat nor melted white bodhicitta, and is the bridge to the voids beyond the head. All of the scriptures on full enlightenment explain it as the control and infinitizing of this. That is why I say there is a better way to do it than the mostly self-arisen way as I have experienced.

In Buddhism, the pots of sacrificial offerings are a fundamental mainstay. They are not the Swastika which is on the forehead, but, when Dakini is divested of most of her other symbolism, the pots remain:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/1/0/0/1008.jpg








That type of swirling energy is also the bindu at the center of a Wheel of Law (as on the flag of Sikkim) or a Vajra. It is, of course, similar to the Korean or Taiji or unfolding of eight combinations as shown in that system.

So if we do Inverted Stupa, we get a Yellow Square at the top, which eventually merges into the same which is the base of a deity's stupa. This, I think, is almost exactly what the European alchemy is saying when the cross over the orb of kings merges with the cross pendant from the Venus ankh or mirror. So it is almost a universal criteria of man's spirituality or divinity.

It is Rasa, which is also Taste and Tongue, so if a deity's tongue is activated by extending or flicking, it may cast lightning, but it also has to do with this. The mental Rasa is of course a huge barrier of attachment, we are usually like puppies who cannot restrain our tastes, craving the next one. And since this actually turns out to be a main characteristic of Vetali, who is a Corpse, then it is like you have to become totally dead to something in order to enjoy the emergence of its opposite.

I am not sure of a better word than "summons" for the hands-electricity turning to erase subtle obstacles. I would like to find one, since, technically, summons is Akarsaya or Hook, used to bring a deity from Void. Noose is to keep it or them assembled and interested. And it sounds to me that you have achieved both of these in some self-arisen way. It is even beyond what we might call "Marici clearing Inner Obstacles", since those are mostly comprehensible bundles of mental and emotional afflictions, and you are only working against something subtle, almost as if against the karmic seeds or winds. That is like even if I mentally forget my taste for something good, like orange juice, the habit pattern of me drinking it still sits there in the subconscious. And so that is like a seed, which will make winds move in my branch nerves, which would pull me away from being able to remain in void. It isn't even anything bad, it is just a subtle type of duality, which is the sin against Vajradhara.

Perhaps that is more like the Cemetery meditations, which are mainly to prevent wind from slipping into the branches or out the doors. And so there, for instance, you have a given cemetery related to Taste, and would "burn it out" in that environment. In tantric terms, it would reveal or strengthen a Gauri, and in practical terms, would be an operation related to a given Naga, Yaksha, and Cloud. These are barriers to the Tree, which is the Avadhut, as related to the obstruction or assistance provided in this particular sphere. Once you satisfy that Yaksha, there is nothing left here.

Six of these are the Six Vijnana expressed by the Six Yoginis (Armor Deities), the Seventh is that of Vajradhara, and the last of all eight or Asta Vijnana is that of the Alaya, or, we might say, "Future State". Many schools state the eighth is a part of you or belongs to you, whereas at least some of the older Indian Yogacara states that this is not part of man's individual organism, it is not "in you" the way the Gauris are the senses themselves. You cannot affect the Alaya. You only change the way you handle it, via the Three Natures, which in simple terms, one changes the Parikalpita or Imaginary by non-dualiztion, so there is no mentality which is different from or not accurate to nature or reality, and that the Paratantra or other-dependent nature is no longer subject to the Nidanas or cause of rebirth or links of dependent arising. Then the Paramartha or Parinispanna is open, becomes lucid, and so forth--then even the Third or Black Void is unable to interfere with one's perception of Prabhasvara or the Absolute Object in the Cosmic or Maha Sunya or Para Sunya.

There is definitely Rainbow Light involved, which is of Sambhogakaya nature. Orange elixir is mainly for Generation, and cool Mercury is mainly for Completion. And so Rainbow Body must be a bit like the mass amount of splooshing colors you are getting, but more organized. It sounds pretty close, just looking for the master strokes, finishing touches. Some of the Nyingma do consider this the most important practice, I suppose in the sense of more achievable for more people, but in Shentong, I think we are saying it is an important basis for the Jewel of the Doctrine, which is like a swirling bliss bindu at the center of Catuskoti, which would mean four kinds of emptiness, or sixteen if you squared it.

[shaberon]

Well in the subject of fabric, it turns out there is something else which I was not exactly aware of. It took me a while to figure out that two different words might be used for Fence, and that Panjara is called Canopy, and so there is something else which is in between, which we will see now.

Actually it is the literal answer to the question of cloth and lightning according to Manjushri.

Arthur Avalon's presentation of Chakrasamvara has somehow managed to split Khandaroha into the Axis deities, and, it will make clear that there is a persistent mandala asset called sometimes a Canopy which is really a Curtain with Fringes:


Then from the Bija Mantra Hum which lies in the heart
emanate ten female Devatas (Dakin1) who are the keepers
of the doors. There are eight of them in the eight
points of the compass and Khanda and Roha are above
(zenith) and below (nadir). They are on the east, south,
west, north, and then south-east, south-west, north-east,
and north-west. Then repeat a syllable (Pada) of the
Mantra of the four-faced Devata and as each Pada is
repeated make a snapping noise with the finger and
thumb of the left hand. By these means let him think
that he has expelled all mischievous Spirits. Then on a


(I) Rigs-kyi-bu. Sanskrit Kula putra. (2) Of the Mandala.

flood of light issuing from the "Hum" in the heart
proceed by stages to make the Vajra-bhumi (ground) ;
next the wall, ceiling, ceiling curtain with fringes, and
net-work of arrows 1 and outside all a fence of divine
flames. He should commence this work from within and
proceed outward in their order.

Then form the fingers of the left hand into the
threatening Mudra 2 and point it at the ten directions,
making the snapping noise abovementioned, repeating
solemnly the following Mantras thrice :

(Foundation) Orn medini-vajra bhava vajra-bandhana hum hum phat.

3 (Wall) Om Vajra-prakara Hum Vam Hun.

4 (Ceiling) Orn Vajra-panjara Hum Yam Hum.

5 (Cloth) Orn Vajra vitana Hum Kham Hum.&


(Network) Orn Vajra-sharajaIa Tram Sham Tram.

7 (Firefence) Orn Vajra-jvalanalarka Hum Ram Hum



So there is a type of cloth curtain called Vitana. Prakara or Fence is sometimes called Rekhe (https://prathistha.blogspot.com/2008/01/) which in Agni Homa is also a "colored line" such as Yellow Bhu Devi and so on.

Then we can find a reference to her pseudonym:

Vitāna (वितान) means “curtain” which is the symbol of Vitānadharā, another name for Paṭadhāriṇī: one of the four “Door Goddesses”, as commonly depicted in Buddhist Iconography, and mentioned in the 11th-century Niṣpannayogāvalī of Mahāpaṇḍita Abhayākara.—Her Colour is blue; her Symbol is the curtain; she has two arms.—The fourth and the last goddess in the series of four deities of the door is called by the name of Paṭadhāriṇī [...] A statuette of this goddess occurs in China under the title of Vitānadharā where vitāna means a curtain.


Much like the Parasol in an artistic mandala is a tantric asset in a real one, this additional Curtain also has a background in a layer of deities after Musicians, but before Tramen and the Four Dakinis and Paramitas. I have seen these and not understood them because they are not Gatekeepers, and I am not sure how Door is being used in some sense different than the mandala gates. It is going to be followed by Light, which culminates in something we found a few days ago to indicate "All-pervasive electricity".


FOUR DOOR GODDESSES


The door is an important item in household furniture, because of its power of giving protection against thieves and animals and unpleasant intruders. The door planks, the lock, the key, and the curtain, all the four are important

articles, and thus these are all deified in Vajrayana. They are given human form, colour, faces, arms and symbols. They are found described in the Pancadaka Mandala of the Nispannayogavall. Collectively they are described as nude,

dancing in Pratyalidha, with fearful appearance, and awe-inspiring ornaments. They are described below in the same order in which they are treated in the Mandala. They hold their special symbols appropriate to their names,



1. TALIKA



Colour White Arms Two

Symbol Lock

The first in the list of door goddesses, is Talika. Her form is des- cribed as follows :

"Talika sita talikahasta" NSP, p. 77

"Talika is white in colour and holds in her two hands the Talika or the Lock."

A statuette of this most obscure but interesting deity is found in the Chinese collection. In this collection her name is somewhat differ- ently stated as Dvaratalakadhara '. Fig. 211 illustrates her statuette in China.



2. KUNCI



Colour Yellow Arms Two

Symbol Keys

The second goddess in this series is called Kunci from the keys that she holds. Her form is described as under :

"Kunci pita kuncikahasta", NSP, p. 77

"Kunci is yellow in colour and holds the Keys in her two hands/'

A statuette of this goddess occurs in the Chinese collection under the title Kuncikadhara. She is of the same description as above L '.



3. KAPATA



Colour Red Arms Two

Symbol Planks

The third deity in the series of the four door goddesses is called Kapata. Her form is described as follows :

'Kapata rakta kapatadhara". NSP, p. 77
'Kapata is of red colour and holds in her two hands the Door Planks. 1 '
A statuette of this goddess is found in the Chinese collection under the title of Dvaradhara. The two are identical ] . Fig, 212 illustrates her statuette found at Peiping.



4. PATADHARINl



Colour Blue Arms Two

Symbol Curtain

The fourth and the last goddess in the series of four deities of the door is called by the name of Patadharini. Her form is described in the Pancadaka Mandala as under :

"Patadharini krsna karabhyarh kandapatam vibhrati."


"Patadharini is blue in colour. She holds in her two hands the curtain (Kandapata) .

A statuette of this goddess occurs in China under the title of Vitanadhara where Vitana means a curtain. The two are identical J .



X. FOUR LIGHT GODDESSES

There are four goddesses of Light in the Vajrayana pantheon. They are named as Suryahasta, Dlpa, Ratnolka and Taditkara and described in the Pancadaka Mandala of the Nispannayogavall. Collectively, they are conceived as nude, and as

violent in appearance with garland of skulls and severed heads. They dance on a corpse in the Pratyalidha attitude and hold their special marks of recognition in their hands. They are described below in the order in which they appear in

the Pancadaka Mandala.



1. SURYAHASTA


Colour White Arms Two

Symbol Sun

Suryahasta is the first deity in the series of four goddesses of Light and her form is described in the following words :

"Suryahasta sita suryamandaladhara". NSP, p. 76

Suryahasta is of white colour and she holds in her hands the disc of the Sun".

One statuette of the goddess is found in the Chinese collection under the tide of Suryadhara. The two are identical l .



2. DIPA



Colour Blue Arms Two

Symbol Light stick

The second Light deity is called Dipa. Her form is described as under: "Dipa nila dipayastidhara."' NSP, p. 76

"Dipa is blue in colour and holds in her hands the light stick". A statuette of this goddess occurs in the Chinese collection. 2 . This Chinese statuette is illustrated in Fig. 213,



3. RATNOLKA



Colour Yellow Arms two

Symbol Jewel

The third in the series of four goddesses of Light is called Ratnolka. She is described as under :

"Ratnolka pita ratnadhara". NSP, p* 76

"Ratnolka is yellow in colour and holds the jewel in her hands*'.

She is represented in the Chinese collection under the name of Ulkadhara. This statuette is illustrated in Fig. 214-



4. TADITKARA



Colour Green Arms Two

Symbol Lightening

The fourth and the last in the series of four goddesses of Light is called Taditkara (Lightening Bearer). Her form is described in the following words :

'Taditkara harita vidyullatadhara". __

'Taditkara is green in colour and holds in her hands the creeper- like lightening.

A statuette of this goddess occurs in the Chinese collection under the title of Vidyuddhara. The image answers the description in all details The two are therefore identical ! .



Pata is a cloth, veil, etc., which is Kandapata or outer covering of a tent as kanda, stem, and pata, cloth covering. It is a bit unusual that the Pata held by Patadharini is re-iterated as Kandapata. In Buddhism and Saktism, Kanda is mostly equivalent to Khanda, which is a growth stem, or:

Kanda (कन्द, “bulb”) is explained in terms of kuṇḍalinīyoga by Lakṣmaṇadeśika in his 11th-century Śaradātilaka.—The body is described, starting from the “bulb” (kanda), the place in which the subtle channels (nāḍī) originate, located between anus and penis (28–9). The three principal channels are iḍā (left), piṅgalā (right) and suṣumṇā (in the centre of the spine and the head). Inside the suṣumṇā is citrā, a channel connecting to the place on the top of the skull called the brahmarandhra (30–4).

Note: The kanda (“bulbous root”, especially of a lotus), more specifically known as the kandayoni elsewhere, is a structure named after its shape, above which the kuṇḍalinī rests and from which the nāḍīs emerge.

Which is why Khandaroha has to do with Generation Stage, i. e. the growth of this budding part.

As far as this Door is concerned, its final component is not even the Door, itself, but the Curtain over it. Then, for some reason, you get Light, as in the Sun, which somehow evolves to Lata or hand-held lightning similar to a creeper plant such as Kusmanda or a vine. This is to the tune of a standard Dharani, Ratnolka, who appears to be Fox Face or Meteor Face or Dhvajagrakeyura in a simple form. Obviously, you can be Green and in Ratna Family, color is not always a "uniform".

Tadit Kara implies "the hand/maker/doer" of Tadit, less like "dhara" or "hasta", bearing or holding, where again she is reiterated as holding Vidyullata.


Edit: with a little review, I am mistaken, I thought these were part of DDV Manjughosha, but, it is from Pancha Daka, which is part of Hevajra. This is a fairly simple scheme where each Dhyani has a unique type of court, similar to Dakini Jala. Parts of these are recognizable, some are not, if we were not told "Door Goddesses" we would have no clue, but it usually looks like a first set that is characteristic to that Family, with a second set that is transferrable or universal:

Vajra Daka: Eight Gauris

Buddha Daka: Sadamsa, Pasini, Vagura, Ankusi, with Four Offering Goddesses, Puspa, Dipa, Dhupa, Gandha

Ratna Daka: Four Light Goddesses, Suryahasta, Dipa, Ratnolka, and Taditkara with Four Dance Goddesses, Lasya, Mala, Gita, Nrtya

Padma Daka: Padma, Dharmodaya, Sphota, Svalesa, with Four Musicians, Vamsa, Vina, Mukunda, Muruja

Viswa Daka: Four Door Goddesses, Talika, Kunci, Kapata, Patadharini, with Four Prajnas, Locana, Makaki, Pandara, Tara


Again, similar methodology, Vajradaka defaults to the center, but any of them may be the lord of the rite. And so even if I do not know specifically what Ratna Daka is doing in Hevajra Tantra, he must be of a similar nature as used elsewhere, which corresponds to the Sun and Light, shown here with a goddess holding the sun, a second Dipa or Lamp who is not part of the Offerings, and one who holds lightning.

Although hers is understood as something like ball lightning, the root is tad (to strike) iti (into the ground). She is said to be allowed the name Vidyuddhara, which has a rare male Hindu correspondence in the story of Nahusa (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/compilation/puranic-encyclopaedia/d/doc241783.html), along with Asoka Sundari, which almost seems like a synonym of Marici. In the story, they are simply a Kinnara and a magic-born daughter, not major characters.

Even if one tried to reverse the interpretation by saying, tadit must mean a strike, this would be clearly eradicated by having said her lightning is attached to her hands like a creeper vine.

In the Pancha Daka retinues, if we see Buddha Family is characterized by Ankusi and Padma by Sphota, it suggests the "Light" ring is characterized by Pasi--Noose and the "Door" ring by Ghanta--Bell, although not ostensibly named or displayed. Without a major commentary, it is hard to be sure, but this would be consistent with the pattern.

It is no surprise to find Ratna filed with Light, but, it is weird to find Viswa or Karma Family marked by a Door, and one whose final touch is the Curtains at that.

Tibetan Deities has many good details, but it is atrocious for not providing retinues. Pancha Daka 465 says the Vajra Daka is equal to Hevajra, and that, in the Ngor version, it may use the older names such as Vajra Surya and Paramasva, and that Mamaki is the principal's consort, which relegates Ratna's to Ratna Tara. Six Monarchs 482, which corresponds to Dakini Jala, is less informative, not giving any Ratna retinue other than saying the thing arises from Aditya--Sun. So we still lack the "individual" retinues for most of these, and can neither confirm nor deny the presence of lightning without them.

NSP 25 is Six Monarchs, centered on Vajrasattva--Jnana Daka, whose consort is variously Jnana Dakini, Dharmadhatu Ishvari, Vajradhatvishvari, or Vajravarahi. His court is the Four Dakinis followed by Khandakapala, Mahakankala, Vikata, and Damstrin as Gatekeepers. The rest of it is a specific version where each Daka has as his Gatekeepers the couples who are the Twenty-four Pithas of Chakrasamvara. Tibetan Deities at least clearly says that Six Monarchs is "malleable", anyone can take the center, they can use simpler or more complex forms, and it is really the mantra which is consistent which is Dakini Jala Sambara. So the original or full Dakini Jala format would use a larger Vajrasattva mandala, such as Samputa, and then Vajra Daka would have as his special ring the Gauris or Vajraraudris, so these are the primary formats of Peaceful and Wrathful. Besides these two, I do not think we have a source for the special retinues of the other four families, aside from knowing the principals as the older Sanskrit names Paramasva, etc.

Uma appears by name in NSP's Bhutadamara mandala.

The Door and Light goddesses did not belong to Manjushri. Sometimes Mañjuśrī is accompanied only by Yamāri, sometimes only by his Śakti or female counterpart, sometimes by Sudhanakumāra and Yamāri and sometimes again by the four divinities, Jālinīprabha (also called Sūryaprabha), Candraprabha, Keśinī and Upakeśinī. Though the last four are required to be present with Arapacana, they are nevertheless found in others also. There are five messengers of Manjusri: 1. Kesini 2. Upakesini 3. Citra 4. Vasumati 5. Akarsani

I was a bit confused, since he does have forms of Light, but Kesini (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kesini) at its simplest begins as "woman with a beautiful braid of hair", and who that may be, begins in the league of Tilottama, and continues as someone who Asura Vairocana failed to marry.

In tracing Vairocani, I am also a bit blurry if she is the sister of "this" Vairocana, or the sister of his son, male Vairocani. I think it would just amount to a different generation in her line of descent without otherwise changing much. The major Puranas are difficult enough to say whether the very famous Tvastr "is" Viswakarman. We can be reasonably confident there is a significance of "Samjna, daughter of Samjna", "Varuni, daughter of Varuni", and Marici, similar to Savitri, a daughter nature to the sun itself. The name Vairocani already implies "daughter of brightness", in such a way that is not Surya's offspring.

The seventh Namasangiti mandala is outright lacking in any type of Dakini or Gauri presentation, and, simplified, it appears to have a different sort of identity.

DDV Manjughosha has for his close ring, the Usnisas, with Dhyanis, Prajnas, and Gatekeepers, his second ring is the 4 x 12 system of Bhumis, Paramitas, etc., whose Gatekeepers are the Pratisamvits (Dharma, Artha, Nirukti, Pratibhana) with Dancers.

The third circle is Bodhisattvas, Wrathfuls, and Offerings.

Fourth is Hindu direction deities.

Outside of that is a large congregation of Hindu deities, Shaktis, Planets, Balabhadras, Serpents, Asuras, Yakshas with Hariti, and the Lunar Mansions or Naksatras.

So Manjughosha is arguably similar to Sarvadurgati, it is a massive Hindu portal, simply placing them subordinate to the Buddhist Usnisas, and a few of the more common Buddhist features, his only unique aspect really being the Paramita system, which is gated by forces that are almost purely academic, who refer to learning and analyzing subjects.

Lacking dakinis, etc., he would not appear very tantric or talking about the subtle body. However, asterisms such as the Lunar Mansions are the Dharmakaya itself. And so if he starts by emitting Usnisa deities, then he perhaps is also a ninth Usnisa at the center of a sequence involving Parasol:

1. Mahosn!sa
2. Sitatapatra Usnisa
3. TejoraSi Usnlsa
4. VijayosnIsa
5. Vikirana Usrisa
6. Udgata Usnisa
7. Mahodgata Usnisa
8. Ojas Usnisa

Manjushri can interface with Parasol who is part of the Adi Prajna; his female half is Sarasvati who becomes Vetali; and he is directly initiated by Guhyeshvari, the overarching Adi Prajna, into Chakrasamvara or Vajrayogini tantra.

The absent aspect of Adi Prajna is Vasudhara, which is why in Nepal it is said that Manjushri and Vasudhara are the outer deities of the secretive tantric initiatory lineages.

Having said Mahosnisa (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/the-brahmanda-purana/d/doc362837.html), this becomes entangled with Underworld deities, as half of the Puranic evolution resides in the Talas, along with forms of lightning and the ultimate power of Sesa, which is Infinite Time.

We take it to be related to Wrathful Deities, and that one aspect of Varuni is Sesa Shakti. Compared to the Worlds, or Lokas, the Talas appear to be a mirrored reflection, similarly to how brain consciousness is a bad reflection of luminous bodhi mind or bodhicitta of the heart.

The relationship to this Underworld has one angle as Avalokiteshvara--Karuna preventing souls from falling under its influence, but, secondly, this is not really by denying or destroying its "sphere of existence", but something more like gaining command of it by purifying it. Then one can arise in Tala two or five or wherever, remain unaffected, and start finding the right Dharma Speech which will assist others who were not so protected.

Manjushri may functionally be a ninth usnisa, as in Sarvadurgati, apparently it also gives eight:

1. Vajronlsa East
2. Ratnosnisia South
3. Padmosnisa West
4. Visvosnlsa North
5. Tejosnisa Agni
6. Dhvajosnisa Nairta
7. Tiksnosnisa Vayu
8. Chhatrosnisa Isana

which is called Navosinisa, nine, implying the central (Buddha in this case) is an Usnisa.

This second set is male, with "Chhatra" meaning Parasol. In usage, female Parasol and Vijaya are some of the most important deities, a couple other females recorded as dharanis, and otherwise they are relatively unknown, compared to what we can say about the crown itself.

Uṣṇīṣa (उष्णीष, “crown”) refers to the “cranial protuberance”, from which the Buddha emitted numerous rays when he smiled with his whole body after contemplating the entire universe, according to the 2nd century Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra (chapter XIV).—Accordingly, having himself arranged the lion-seat, the Bhagavat sat down cross-legged; holding his body upright and fixing his attention, he entered into the samādhirājasamādhi. Then, having tranquilly come out of this samādhi and having contemplated the entire universe with his divine eye (divyacakṣus), the Bhagavat smiled with his whole body. Wheels with a thousand spokes imprinted on the soles of his feet (pādatala) shoot out six hundred prabhedakoṭi of rays. In the same way, beams of six hundred prabhedakoṭi of rays are emitted from his uṣṇīṣa.

After emission, the rays (raśmi) might return to the uṣṇīṣa (cranial protuberance), according to Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra (chapter XIV). According to the Avadānaśataka and Divyāvadāna, it is a custom that, at the moment when the Buddha Bhagavats show their smile, blue, yellow, red and white rays flash out of the Bhagavat’s mouth, some of which go up and some of which go down. Those that go down penetrate into the hells (naraka); those that go up penetrate to the gods from the Cāturmahārājikas up to the Akaniṣṭas. Having travelled through the trisāhasramahāsāhasralokadhātu, the rays return to the Bhagavat from behind. According as to whether the Buddha wishes to show such-and-such a thing, the rays return to him by a different part of the body.

The returning of the rays into the uṣṇīṣa of the Buddha predicts the anuttara-samyaksaṃbodhi of the Buddhas.

[Old Student]

...which is not noticeable except for her color.

(Yellow Vairocani Vajrayogini) it is also noticeable because she oddly isn't standing on anyone.


"Feels wet" sounds a bit like Earth dissolving into Water, and so it is likely you are being "held" at this point until you muster every tiny little atomic aspect of it. Again, this does not mean you will not glimpse peaks or highlights of additional stages, but, as a whole, "you will not pass" until the first one is perfectly plain.

I had a far less spectacular encounter with this last night. A summoning thing again but very less powerful, still, when it was over there was the same wetness, this time on my face. As with the "wet bedclothes" the night before that weren't actually wet, there was nothing wet on my face at all, not even my eyes watering.


That type of swirling energy is also the bindu at the center of a Wheel of Law (as on the flag of Sikkim) or a Vajra. It is, of course, similar to the Korean or Taiji or unfolding of eight combinations as shown in that system.

The wheel that emanated in my shaking looked more like Ashoka's wheel of law, the one on the Indian flag (which has I think 32 spokes).


I am not sure of a better word than "summons" for the hands-electricity turning to erase subtle obstacles. I would like to find one, since, technically, summons is Akarsaya or Hook, used to bring a deity from Void. Noose is to keep it or them assembled and interested.

That one was a term they used, not me, except they used it in verb form, telling me to "summon". I didn't know how to create a plural of it, it' like a command word, if I just use it the way they did, then if I did it four times I would do "four summons".


There is definitely Rainbow Light involved, which is of Sambhogakaya nature. Orange elixir is mainly for Generation, and cool Mercury is mainly for Completion. And so Rainbow Body must be a bit like the mass amount of splooshing colors you are getting, but more organized. It sounds pretty close, just looking for the master strokes, finishing touches. Some of the Nyingma do consider this the most important practice, I suppose in the sense of more achievable for more people, but in Shentong, I think we are saying it is an important basis for the Jewel of the Doctrine, which is like a swirling bliss bindu at the center of Catuskoti, which would mean four kinds of emptiness, or sixteen if you squared it.

I could understand more organized, mine seems to need the surround of lightning (not usually considered the most organized of things) to have form.

[Old Student]

'Taditkara is green in colour and holds in her hands the creeper- like lightening.
This is the way the lightning appears in my hands when I summon, except my hands are not green for this, more purple (which as you I think have noted before is the absence of green).


"Patadharini is blue in colour. She holds in her two hands the curtain (Kandapata) .

I had been all through weaving and spinning, hadn't thought of curtains. I did think of webs. There is an example of interpenetration given on the Nichiren sites supposedly from Tiantai Buddhism and to there maybe from Hua Yen, of pulling a single cord in Indras net makes the whole net move. When I read it I wondered if they were cords. Sometimes they seem more like spaghetti or like worms. She's definitely pulling them from something and smoothing them before dropping them in her lap.

Edited:
Just wanted to slip this in, I looked up words that sound identical to 'summon' in a few languages, here is what I got:
saman Sanskrit equal, simultaneous
saman Bengali equal, all in one to
sa man Chinese shaman

[shaberon]

...which is not noticeable except for her color.

(Yellow Vairocani Vajrayogini) it is also noticeable because she oddly isn't standing on anyone.

Perhaps. I have tried to figure it out. Tibetan Deities translates all of the inscriptions on those plates. That one is Vairocani, and the green one before her was Varnani.

Now first I will say it is the Book of Nagaraja.

There is an opening sequence of Taras, and many sages or Mahasiddhas, and it culminates on Nagaraja being revered by Manjushri, Avalokiteshvara, Maitreya, and Varana Niskambin. Then it kicks into Guhyasamaja and shows all the tantric deities such as these. In fact it starts with Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra.

There is a similar solo Yellow showing a Wheel that is Cinnamasta.

After Manjuvajra, it soon moves to Armor Deities using Dakini Jala names, or, what it calls Armor Vajrasattva, Armor Vairocana, Armor Black Heruka, Armor Padmanarttesvara, Armor Vajrasurya, and Armor Paramasva. White Vajrasattva has six arms, the rest of them are four armed drummers. These are followed by Varahi, Yamini, etc., the more well-known Armor goddesses, more four armed drummers.

One can start on the Nagaraja plate (https://www.himalayanart.org/items/40017) and click next item and it will soon be apparent.

The book is considered printed after 1810 and so far no one has pointed out that the inscriptions use Dakini Jala names and that Paramasva is assuredly not Hayagriva.

I already knew how Nagaraja works through Manjuvajra and what the Armor is, in relation to the fact it is nested with Seven Syllable deity and its relations. I did not know that was how these illustrations ran. Makes perfect sense to me.

However it means the pictures do not one-to-one match the sadhanas, and so although there is a picture of Vairocani as a retinue member, the only sadhana specifically limited to her appears to be Kurmapadi.

In the league of Tilottama happens to be another Apsara named Vidyutparna (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/vidyutparna), but of her, nothing much is said. It cross-references to Vidyudvarna.

In the sadhanas, if we portray Bharati as basically the Grail, here is why. She starts as Sukha Bharati and has interesting frolics with Jambhala. But she is in transit to becoming Maha Sukha Bharati, and entering the top tier of the Sakya Three Great Reds. She does so as:

increaser of bliss (bde ba rgyas byed ma, sukhavardhana)

entering Union with Takkiraja, who is the Krodha or Wrathful from the Agni corner.

In the vajrahūṃkāra-maṇḍala his name is Vajrayakṣa. In the dharmadhātuvagīśvara-maṇḍala he is Vajrajvālānalārka.


Takkiraja is of the nature of Kama Raja. And his sadhana is almost the beginning (fifth) in Rinjung Gyatsa. It has the first long-ish dharani, which, near the end, says "puja agni". This plus extracting him from Agni corner are probably not a mistake.

When Red, he is an Amitabha deity, and the practice is equivalent to Sukhavati. This is the next easiest Akanistha to enter after Tara's Forest of Turquoise Leaves.

Saman (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/saman) is a foundation of Lotus Family and would even indicate Sama Veda. Equilibrium through mantra, something like that, it sounds a lot like Dharma Speech.

I had not thought of Curtains either, I thought some of those things were misprints or something. Bhattacharya is weird because he suddenly slips in two groups which are really explanatory of Hevajra Tantra. I am not sure why it overlooks Vajrasattva and uses its Pancha Daka format. I see nothing awkward in naming him Jnana Daka along with the others. It was a little awkward when the Curtains came out of the Curtains, they for some reason appeared to me, called Vitana usually, although her held item at least is called Kandapata.

The Curtains stand out from the background because they are in the Amoghasiddhi position in the Amoghasiddhi court.

Lightning is in the Amoghasiddhi position of the Ratna court.

Even if we do not know what all of them are, each of those is some kind of a cycle to the relevant wind or wisdom, Curtains being the final.

It could be that this Pancha Daka is the system to make that mandala asset which I suppose is not talked about much. If I have made a point to say, Sukla Tara is the same as Fence, and all of these things are not just pictures but stages, and there is no other explanation of Vitana, maybe so.

[Old Student]

In the sadhanas, if we portray Bharati as basically the Grail, here is why. She starts as Sukha Bharati and has interesting frolics with Jambhala. But she is in transit to becoming Maha Sukha Bharati, and entering the top tier of the Sakya Three Great Reds. She does so as:

increaser of bliss (bde ba rgyas byed ma, sukhavardhana)

entering Union with Takkiraja, who is the Krodha or Wrathful from the Agni corner.

In the vajrahūṃkāra-maṇḍala his name is Vajrayakṣa. In the dharmadhātuvagīśvara-maṇḍala he is Vajrajvālānalārka.

These names, some of them, seem familiar. There were a bunch of "lower caste gods" i.e. yakshas, marut, etc. (including dakinis and sakinis) who were converted to Buddhism at one point, literally, as it Buddha held conversions for them etc. They all got names starting with Vajra. Maybe I'm remembering badly.


Saman is a foundation of Lotus Family and would even indicate Sama Veda. Equilibrium through mantra, something like that, it sounds a lot like Dharma Speech.

Equality of tones in mantras would mean the metering of the long and short vowels, I think.


The Curtains stand out from the background because they are in the Amoghasiddhi position in the Amoghasiddhi court.

Lightning is in the Amoghasiddhi position of the Ratna court.

Even if we do not know what all of them are, each of those is some kind of a cycle to the relevant wind or wisdom, Curtains being the final


I have to think about this. Curtains don't necessarily mean the sheer voiles we have now. On a similar note, I can find no description or even a word for the cords which connect the jewels in Indra's net. Which is strange, I think.

[shaberon]

I have to think about this. Curtains don't necessarily mean the sheer voiles we have now. On a similar note, I can find no description or even a word for the cords which connect the jewels in Indra's net. Which is strange, I think.

No, they are sometimes called a Canopy, it is more like a decorative ceiling curtain with fringes. It is confusing since Canopy is a synonym for Tent and other terms used to express the invincible dome. But yes, most of the converted deities gain Vajra names, and Yaksha is among the most significant. The "cords" may be the Net itself? I am not sure.

A good image may be hard to find, since a mandala cannot really draw the Pavilion over itself, there would be nothing else to see. So these kind of Curtains are probably like a grace attribute to the overall "ceiling".

A main idea behind the "giant eggshell" of a mandala is simply a border to keep out the nasties, and, if any are stuck inside, you peg them down with a Kila. But the protection is mainly done by the Vajra Fence and Pavilion; no one really thinks of the Ground as preventing invaders from below, which would also make sense, but the decorative curtain sounds much more like a Victory item like Parasol and Banner.

I don't know. I don't like to make mistakes or say the wrong thing, but, since the artistic patterns hold some things in common which are not that hard once you see them, then one could easily note the curtains as being the "Final Accomplishment" in Pancha Daka--which even if this seems like a reversion to a basic format instead of going to seven or a hundred Buddhas--if it accompanies Hevajra Tantra, it is not really even teaching Generation Stage. It is Five Buddhas or perhaps Rupa Skandha from the view of mastery. Therefor I would take it as a bit of a challenging subject, hardly mentioned in most of the preliminary teachings.

Because I am trying to deal with something like "the reality of symbols", my knowledge base is severed from rites like Opening the Eyes, which is probably one of the major missing parts to Entering the Mandala. It is actually possible to be given aspects of Completion Stage even if one is doing the most basic Kriya Tantras. Instead, I am looking more at how to bond with or gain a samaya to Yoga deities of various families, and beginning to put together the sub-systems as expressed by the main components of mandalas, which appears to be the intent of Dhanada Krama. In this sense, dhanada is not "wealth giving", even remotely, unless understood as knowledge and then the nidhi or self-secret knowledge hidden in the Yaksha kingdom.

Vairocani has little independent existence aside from almost immediately and repetitively being taken as a part of Varahi and Cinnamasta. The second-most individual presentation of her is when she is white in Reversed Union with White Heruka. This, again, is like a major fulcrum, since it means a self-arisen White Heruka. And so, this is pretty close to her original or Orange heat manifestation having become Cool Mercury with its attributes sanitized, which is intended to access the purified white forms of other deities.

Vajradhara is sometimes described as in Union with Vajrayogini, but not with Varahi.

White Vajrayogini hardly has any independent recognition. According to Wiki, she is called Prajnaloka or Light of Prajna.

Bhattacharya says of one Sadhanamala contributor:

15. Kokadatta (No. 218).

In the Tibetan Tangyur he stands as the author of
the following works:

1. Sukla Vajravarahl Sadhana.

2. Sri VajrayoginI manasagopya-homavidhi.

3. Sri Vajrayoginyabhipretahomavidhi.

4. Vajravarahiprajnalokakrtyastotra .


He is styled as Acarya or Mahacarya and was also
known as Konkanapada.

In the Sadhanamala he stands as the author of one
single Sadhana which is devoted to the worship of
Vajravarahl who is designated as Prajnaloka. It is
rather an elaborate Sadhana where instructions are
given for reciting Mantras while sitting on a corpse. The
Mantra of Prajnaloka according to him is so powerful
that the * careless repetition of the same only two lakh
times enabled him to compose the Sadhana even though
he never made any efforts to learn the Sastras.’ This
Sadhana is included in the MS. B which shows that the
author cannot be later than 1100 A.D.

This name, Prajnaloka, shows up in Sadhanamala Varahi 218 which is large-ish and complicated.

Taranatha transmits Venerable White Varahi Clarifying Intelligence 40, which is Dorje Naljorma Sherab Salme, who arises from Hrih but is crowned with Akshobya. Tibetan Deities copies this as Sukla Varahi Prajnaloka Krtva, and follows it with 99 which is the same "in the Ancient traditions" which means she gains Armor syllables.

She uses a Red Vajra with three pennants, tramples Mara ("depriver of breath") and drinks his blood. She also has a Dharmodaya at the navel. Taranatha gives her the title Jetsun and both texts add the title Phags dKar, which may mean Varahi. However, she has no pig feature to be found.

None of the mantras call her Vairocani (or anything); it does use the sixteen vowels and produces nectar from the tongue.

I am not sure if this author has simply been loose in distinguishing Vajrayogini from Varahi. The former is something like "includes the escapade" of the latter. Varahi is described as having an inherent existence, i. e. is a Matrika, part of the environment, whereas Vajrayogini is only Noumenal or mind-born through practice. That is why we do not feature outer rites for Varahi's blessing or whatever. She is not used that way, it is like she is only to be "handled" by Gnosis.

As a Sherab, this one cannot be much different from Prajna Vardhani, which is the Picu deities Sarasvati, Prajnaparamita, Marici.

Is this safe, is this the same as Vairocani who joins Heruka, well, nothing exactly says so, unless you pierce those layers of meaning and reverse-engineer the distributed package. If this is an Akshobya deity, then she is closer to an extension of Prajnaparamita. Well, she is the Light of Prajna, which is a very Buddhist way of emulating Puranic Vairocani as Jvalantim Tapasi or the blaze of Tapas. That is her "conversion", not just converted but also cooled.

Prajnaloka (https://www.translating-karmapas.org/all-works/) is also used by H. H. 3rd Karmapa, who we take to be a pinnacle of Shentong and perhaps one of the most definitive teachers period.

[Old Student]

No, they are sometimes called a Canopy, it is more like a decorative ceiling curtain with fringes. It is confusing since Canopy is a synonym for Tent and other terms used to express the invincible dome. But yes, most of the converted deities gain Vajra names, and Yaksha is among the most significant. The "cords" may be the Net itself? I am not sure.

A good image may be hard to find, since a mandala cannot really draw the Pavilion over itself, there would be nothing else to see. So these kind of Curtains are probably like a grace attribute to the overall "ceiling".

A main idea behind the "giant eggshell" of a mandala is simply a border to keep out the nasties, and, if any are stuck inside, you peg them down with a Kila.

So a canopy or ceiling is like the description of Indra's net from Cooke, as well. I tried to do some digging on the cords, it's very hard to figure out when people are citing something and when they are amplifying it, and on what grounds. So far I have come up with, from different sources, that the cords are:

1) lightning
2) noumena and phenomena (warp and woof) with colors from the three gunas
3) space and time, time being the vertical axis (or axes, since Cooke's translation clearly says high dimension)
4) threads of light spanning space and time

It's hard to track down without running into the thousands of current uses for the metaphor (I have a book by a mathematician, David Mumford, called, "Indra's Pearls", e.g.). There is even an entry on the Math Stack Exchange about the cardinality of Indra's net.

The version about the noumena and phenomena is from Samkya and is old, so is the notion that time is vertical and perpendicular to the net.

The idea that it is made of lightning in some fashion stems, I think, either from modern western stuff or it stems from the fact that Indra supposedly spun the whole thing up in an instant to fight someone, and may have used it to protect someone else.

The threads are elsewhere described as infinitely fine, and there are allusions to spiderwebs.


She uses a Red Vajra with three pennants, tramples Mara ("depriver of breath") and drinks his blood. She also has a Dharmodaya at the navel.

Interesting that Mara here is "depriver of breath". I spent the night "deprived of breath" watching visions of things decaying. I thought something was wrong because I went so long without moving (which doesn't usually happen with shaking), but it was part of it, it turned out, and turned out that all that destruction produced yet another kind of bliss.

You have Prajnaloka as loka meaning "light" which gives the light of wisdom. She is also apparently thought of as the freedom of wisdom?

[shaberon]

You have Prajnaloka as loka meaning "light" which gives the light of wisdom. She is also apparently thought of as the freedom of wisdom?

I am not sure.

We kind of have to charter the territory.

That was new to me, like a new entry.

Tibetan weaving mandalas are both the five colors in space, and also their blends and motion. All of the metaphors are somewhat appropriate, although I would still say that the basic idea is different grades of mind which experience different degrees of light and matter. Indra resides in Kama Loka, and his heaven, the second, is the border of association with the physical plane. Tvastr sits there and makes whatever is needed. Above Indra is various states of mental purgation. Below is life and death in the usual sense.

I am reluctant to independently speak much about Vajravarahi since at that point I feel as if dealing with a Nirmanakaya or Tulku, like with Simhamukha. Now when we speak of general deities and definitions, these are ever-present states of being, and so when we can identify Dharmadhatu, then we are at a point where it can begin to manifest as Prajnaparamita or Guhyajnana Dakini or Vajrayogini, since this is a way, so to speak, of bonding to her as a universal power without tampering with the lineages. Kurukulla is arguably definable as born from Tara combined with the exuding of nectar; Usnisa deities spring from the head of Buddha, Lightning Ekajati is born from his sweat. If we know what Kurukulla is, then his sweat is like sixteen of those Sixteens.

Varahi's name is tied in a difficult way to dakinis and yoginis, and so I am trying to sort out what is Vajrayogini without pig, and is it fair to describe the white and yellow ones as Vairocani. This almost seems to be the case up to Cinnamasta.

Vajrayogini is famous as the Three Reds of Sakya, being Naro, Maitri, and Indra's Dakinis. Among them, it has always seemed to me that Indrabhuti has a type of primacy, and that may become apparent at a glance and these frames make a little more sense to us. In the following, the published frames are the same as the sadhana sequence in both texts of Rinjung Gyatsa.


Two-headed Vajrayogini of Chel or Chal tradition, followed by Naro and Maitri dakinis:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/0/40026.jpg





These are all like Cinnamasta or are assoctiated with Triple mantra.

Indra Dakini followed by Arthasiddhi and Cinnamasta:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/0/40027.jpg



Here, the 1983 texts tells us she is the same as Chal--that is, two faced--but Orange. In that case, this Indra Dakini is a type of Varahi.









Varnani and Vairocani followed by Indra Dakini:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/0/40028.jpg




Here, Indradakini is a sneaky subtitle after Varahi Destroying the Opponent. But her name in the description is Vajrayogini. She drinks Nectar rather than Blood, although she is extremely fierce. She is the dual Varnani and Vairocani, Vajrayogini is her Heart Mantra, and Vajra Dakini is her Near Heart Mantra. Her foot reaches into the Brahma Realm and tramples Brahma and Sakra (Indra). So this particular version is highly explanatory towards the whole scheme, and it calls for attention since it is really a type of Indra Dakini. It is a development but still a step shy of Triple mantra.

Kurmapadi (Vairocani), Shridhara's Varahi, and Naro Dakini:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/0/40029.jpg



So there is an aspect of full pig head Varahi which is also Cinnamasta by having the associates. The blue Varnani is also called Nyan Dragma "Famous Lady", although Nyan also clearly means ear-whispered transmission.


Reversed Vajrayogini (Vairocani), followed by Krodha Kali (Vajradakini) and her first retinue member:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/0/40030.jpg





The last retinue member followed by Prajnaloka or White Varahi Increasing Prajna, and the same from the Ancient Texts:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/0/40033.jpg






Sadhanamala contains the same as some of those, although it appears to have other instances of Vairocani being the sole mantra applied to a deity.

Vairocani--Varahi 217 tells us sahajananda svabhavam, her self-nature is Sahaja Ananda or the Fourth Joy, and clearly invokes Vitana. Vairocani--Varahi 227 is a Cemetery goddess in Vairocana Family. Neither one seem to refer to any pig feature, or, their own color.

It also has something to say about White Varahi. But as we can see, overall she has a modular structure, in one place she does Inverted Stupa, then Armor, and at a point where you have Sahaja Ananda, it is the upper components such as Curtains.

[Old Student]

Tibetan weaving mandalas are both the five colors in space, and also their blends and motion. All of the metaphors are somewhat appropriate, although I would still say that the basic idea is different grades of mind which experience different degrees of light and matter. Indra resides in Kama Loka, and his heaven, the second, is the border of association with the physical plane. Tvastr sits there and makes whatever is needed. Above Indra is various states of mental purgation. Below is life and death in the usual sense.

Good to know, so I get the feeling I do not have to choose which of the possible threads for the net are true, just take all of them as being different ways of describing it. The blends make sense with the idea that the colors somehow also come from the qualities (gunas).


Here, Indradakini is a sneaky subtitle after Varahi Destroying the Opponent. But her name in the description is Vajrayogini. She drinks Nectar rather than Blood, although she is extremely fierce. She is the dual Varnani and Vairocani, Vajrayogini is her Heart Mantra, and Vajra Dakini is her Near Heart Mantra. Her foot reaches into the Brahma Realm and tramples Brahma and Sakra (Indra).

I was under the impression that Vajrayogini always drank Nectar, I thought the entrails in her Kapala produced nectar which she drank (can't remember where I had read that).


Vairocani--Varahi 217 tells us sahajananda svabhavam, her self-nature is Sahaja Ananda or the Fourth Joy, and clearly invokes Vitana. Vairocani--Varahi 227 is a Cemetery goddess in Vairocana Family. Neither one seem to refer to any pig feature, or, their own color.

Two things: The first sentence has a good "feel" to it, I have to think about it. The last, I looked around at what the pigs represent when they are not representing desire/greed, it seems that they are complex. There is something about her cry representing compassion as opposed to the horse cry (male, is this Hayagriva?) representing wisdom. These are reversed with the female as compassion and the male as wisdom. Is she ever just "sow necked"?

[shaberon]

I was under the impression that Vajrayogini always drank Nectar, I thought the entrails in her Kapala produced nectar which she drank (can't remember where I had read that).


Two things: The first sentence has a good "feel" to it, I have to think about it. The last, I looked around at what the pigs represent when they are not representing desire/greed, it seems that they are complex. There is something about her cry representing compassion as opposed to the horse cry (male, is this Hayagriva?) representing wisdom. These are reversed with the female as compassion and the male as wisdom. Is she ever just "sow necked"?

It is tricky, those are good questions.

The answer seems to usually be "not in all cases because it changes". That is the caveat I use with almost all deities, having become immediately frustrated by the writing style that "x is y". It might be like that in Hindu tantra. In Buddhism, there are so many changes to color, family, and location, a good example being Sitabani, well-known as fiery and red, but then we find a major explanatory mandala using tantric motifs where she turns green and perhaps represents her name, Cool Forest. These are not cartoon artists trying to figure out how to keep you interested in our show, it is an attempt to portray a mental and physiological change that can scarcely be explained to an ordinary "bundle of senses" any more than calculus to a kindergartner.

Vajrayogini's bowl is almost always Blood, which at the most basic is the pressing of wisdom out of worldly experience.

In certain ways it may become nectar. The term nectar is used in a few different ways; it is the liquid substances which are the dhyanis or prajnas as urine and other "impure" substances, which are mixed and purified. But then it also means an internal liquid-like warm bliss. And finally it means what we might call Medicine. This is why it seems to me very useful to craft Generation Stage sadhanas which are timed with the evolution of Nectar, or, is a type of Nectar approval process, based in Varuni and Vairocani.

So when we see a Vase, such as with Amitayus, this usually does mean nectar in the sense of elixir of immortality. And sometimes this may appear in unusual hands, such as those of Vetali or Vajrayogini.

As a bowl, it is almost always Blood, which in a few cases is something more specific like "blood of the Four Maras". Occasionally it is nectar as with White Vetali or Indra Dakini.

And so Indra Dakini is noteworthy since her well-known side is much the same as Naro Dakini, except she adds a pig face, a Ghona. However the semi-hidden truth is that she also has a white form which is intermediate/explanatory. It may easily be confused for a White Maitri Dakini. But this one explains her heart and near heart mantras, which is complementary to Chakrasamvara, i. e. the Four Dakinis are his heart mantra and so on. Complex deities usually have at least four mantras, the Seed, Heart, Near Heart, and Essence. She has the possibly unique description that her lower foot smashes the Seven Talas or Underworlds, while her raised foot has entirely penetrated form and tramples Brahma and Indra.

And so when we look at those color plates, we find ten or so "Vajrayoginis or Vajravarahis", and then in Sadhanamala, there are also about ten, but these are not necessarily identical, or in evident order. Neither one is exhaustive, since Guhyasamaja Sadhanamala is a book of forty-six of these Varahis up to her large Twelve Arm form. I am not sure if it is translated, but Elizabeth English used it for her Vajrayogini book. So we can access a large amount of the descriptions, but, I think there is an issue with what Pabonkha has provided in making Cinnamasta like a direct handout sadhana.

Varahi 218 is or tells you to do Prajnaloka Sadhana.

217 is the only reference to Sahajananda in the entire book.

It does not mention Kurmapadi at all.

So if we look at the structure, 217 is rather precisely both an advanced tantric development, along with the final mandala assets. The colophon says Advaya Vajra, which is a pseudonym for Maitri, and so if we look for what he says about Sahajananda, then it should apply here. It is perhaps accurate to say Maitri teaches not just raised foot, but, both feet up, which could only be considered flight or levitation. This is what makes Sukhasiddhi different from Hindu Lajja Gauri, and Mahamaya with Buddhadakini different from standing intercourse positions.

It has a sexualized aspect in almost every way conceivable, however, the female with her legs up is still a symbol of the downwards triangle, itself mainly being the Gunas.

Color is a compound of Gunas. When we retain so much Puranic material, the thing about them is they all contain a Creation Myth, which varies from story to story, but always shares some basics, and is always about the shaping of formless root matter into manifestation. Tantra does not care about celebrating that and worshipping it, really, it is like throwing it away. We use Nirvritti which is like Pralaya. No, we do not literally kill ourselves or destroy the world, but, mentally, it is like that. We extinguish the senses and the creation and abide in something formless. And it is after that when the beginning of the Puranas is applicable, i. e., represents the practitioner's mind arising from cessation back into manifestation. Ultimately in Buddhist sadhanas, this is Emerging as Maha Sambhoga Kaya and complete Nirmana Kaya.

So then the Gunas are the Tri-Shakti and why it is described as splitting into more shaktis and being able to move and mix.

The Divine Gunas are Higher Yoni Triangle, since this manifested one is Mani Pur at the core of one's body.

In his Dohas or tantric songs, Maitri uses some almost exclusively Vaisnava phrases, related to Kunkuma, which seems to heavily register with the only Buddhist dharani thought of as an inquiry by Vishnu, Narayan, which is answered by Mahamaya Vijaya Vahini or War Chariot goddess who is revered by Vajradhara.

I cannot recall why "neck" is the meaning for Tamdrin--Hayagriva, it is different from face or head when that is the intent. Since it says "neck", that is really the method of attachment, and why this apparently Buddhist deity is actually a minor incarnation of Vishnu used in the Horse Head rite of Immortality involving the Aswins and how Tvastr is like a custodian of nectar.

There are definitely branches from the syllable Hr becoming Hri. All of these have a default "soft a", so Hr is the same as Hra. The seed syllables in mantras are almost always chanted, Hayagriva is wrathful and it becomes Hrih. However as in Shakta, Hrim is the basic Maya syllable, is the main Mirror syllable when we think of a goddess holding a mirror.

Prajna--Upaya or Prajna--Karuna are usually considered male--female couples, but it is correct that "within" a single devi or her retinue, a female can also handle the Method role of Upaya or Karuna. And they can probably reverse it on a male. And so what the syllables and roles "are" is more of a question of "when" or in which sadhana. We see that Hrim is also handled by Vajra Family in Mahacina Krama, there is some flow via Ekajati to Lotus Family, and eventually there are Red Hum syllables and Red Vajras up to things like Takkiraja and Vira Vajradharma.

So far, I am unable to trace Kurmapadi as a stance or in older sources, however there is somewhat of a close parallel in 227, if I use Varuni to beget Vairocani then she had better be able to make it across the Cemeteries without fading. And so even though it is the last sadhana in her series, it actually probably should be prior to the first ones which are the unwieldy hypostatic blends.

I take Pigs as Vajra Ignorance, the subtle form of Ignorance, which is the first sin. They say if we were not ignorant, no other sins would ensue. Because we are, we are susceptible to things that often have more emotional content, which at the most basic level, are Attachment and Aversion. Those are like the roots of the whole Raga--Lotus and Dvesa--Vajra Families. If these are expanded, once can do slightly more complex sins, such as Greed or Jealousy.

The pig animal itself is extremely destructive and eats anything.

If these become Tramen in the Talas, one is helpless, so to speak. It will be the only Mental Object which one will be forced to witness objectively. A nightmarish dream which could be instantly dispelled, except one lacks the mental ability to do so, is in a swoon or daze under this monstrosity of one's own making.

Comparatively, Red Lion Face Vajrayogini is not Simhamukha, and the Lion is both Peaceful Durga and the vehicle of Lion's Roar Samadhi which is used by all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. That is why it seems to me that if we do not hold a Varahi lineage, it is safer to think of the Lion, which is a revelation by Nyan.

Marici is far more complex about pigs. She does, of course, have pig-free forms, but at some point, Varahi is an inevitable graft to her.

Varahi can operate in any family, but is mainly a Vairocana deity. This itself is unusual, since she is gated behind Vasudhara, and is really an earth goddess, or, subterranean in the Talas. She is like the total motion of Hum syllable which we say "is" solar but, manifests individually in the heart, in a way that is mentally linked and reflective through the Talas, underworlds, and core of the earth. It will move from there on the Garuda into the sunlight which melts the pig or Ignorance through the entire path of Vajra Ignorance, which is like a lack of Amoghasiddhi, in other words it is Mogha Siddhi or Ignorance of Occult Power.

[Old Student]

So if we look at the structure, 217 is rather precisely both an advanced tantric development, along with the final mandala assets. The colophon says Advaya Vajra, which is a pseudonym for Maitri, and so if we look for what he says about Sahajananda, then it should apply here. It is perhaps accurate to say Maitri teaches not just raised foot, but, both feet up, which could only be considered flight or levitation. This is what makes Sukhasiddhi different from Hindu Lajja Gauri, and Mahamaya with Buddhadakini different from standing intercourse positions.

It has a sexualized aspect in almost every way conceivable, however, the female with her legs up is still a symbol of the downwards triangle, itself mainly being the Gunas.

So, I'm mostly very reticent about applying directly things from my shaking to symbolism in other things - spec. thangkas and sadhanamalas. It's about that reverse thing I told you about where I seem to be always starting at the end and going in the opposite direction from the Vajrayana or Yoga accepted practices. But this time it seems relevant enough to just throw it out there.

Kurmapadi is the turtle stance that you have Vairocani in above, and orange. I have pretty much all of these poses, which you have been meticulously delineating between Dakinis and deities, as parts of the kriya I shake into when one or the other of the Dakinis identify (or sometimes I say 'manifest', it all depends on whether they seem to have already been there or not). Many of them are mixed up from what you've been finding, and again that's okay for me, they need not be precise matches, for the reasons you just gave. So I do have the kriya of Sukhasiddhi's legs up position, and the various flying poses, and the warrior stance that Vajrayogini is in sometimes, and the tandava stance that the Dakinis are frequently dancing in, and some others (including a Burmese sitting stance which may be because my legs can't do vajrasana).

The Kurmapadi stance is not, for me, identified with a specific Dakini, it is identified with producing what are probably the two drops, but to me, I had labeled them as 'onions' because of their shapes. Specifically, the stance is associated with the red one, which forms at the bottom, and appears, connected with my clear body, as a crowning birth. I have also seen the stance, both in Western and in Eastern depictions, as childbirth.


Color is a compound of Gunas.
[...]
So then the Gunas are the Tri-Shakti and why it is described as splitting into more shaktis and being able to move and mix.

The Divine Gunas are Higher Yoni Triangle, since this manifested one is Mani Pur at the core of one's body.

Adding this to the description of the net or of the fabric of a weave, things begin to make more sense.


I cannot recall why "neck" is the meaning for Tamdrin--Hayagriva, it is different from face or head when that is the intent. Since it says "neck", that is really the method of attachment, and why this apparently Buddhist deity is actually a minor incarnation of Vishnu used in the Horse Head rite of Immortality involving the Aswins and how Tvastr is like a custodian of nectar.

I was pretty sure, but may be wrong, that the neck part was related to the cry, which is why I asked if the pig deities are ever pig necked instead of pig headed or faced. Because of her cry being specifically paralleled to his cry in something I had looked up. Her cry is also supposed to be a demonstration of emptiness (sunyata emptiness).

Anyway, it's sometimes important to me because of the way my neck shakes, independently of head and body, during my shaking. It feels leathery when it is shaking, like a hide, and the shaking turns it transparent. Which brings me to something else: My neck and throat have become enormously central and complex recently (I told you about the huge vision at my throat), and focus for channeling energy seems to be to the root of my tongue, which buzzes, sparks, etc. when that happens. Yesterday and today there has been some kind of musculature or nerves or something activated there, it's one of those places to "flick" now, like the one deep in my mid-lower abdomen and some others.

But here is the thing. It wants to sing. As in it specifically has something that I'm supposed to add breath and sound to and it is going to do something, like move or shake or something. The Dakinis are treating it like a mantra. For my part, I tried some hums and breaths over it and didn't figure it out. It has something to do with all the other goings on at my throat and is very linked to the summoning, if I summon, it starts to move and flick and buzz.

It is some kind of culminating event on the horizon. The whole thing is very odd but fits in with going kind of backwards. Vajrayana/Mantrayana puts the mantras first before anything else happens, the Keeneys in their descriptions of shamanic "cooking" put the music and therefore the song at the very beginning. And yet, here I am. My shaking has so far had sounds and music inside and of course I can hear the Dakinis, etc. but now there is this thing that will be not silent from the outside and will come from this place way too far back on my tongue.

[shaberon]

So, I'm mostly very reticent about applying directly things from my shaking to symbolism in other things - spec. thangkas and sadhanamalas. It's about that reverse thing I told you about where I seem to be always starting at the end and going in the opposite direction from the Vajrayana or Yoga accepted practices. But this time it seems relevant enough to just throw it out there.


I think I understand you here.

Yes, to some extent, you have blown by all the preliminaries and landed in some type of dakini field that the average practitioner will never reach. It is rare, but possible, to have the merit to attain a higher spiritual state very quickly, especially compared to someone who has to climb the ladder rungs. When I was young and first experienced occult energy, there was a period of maybe about six months of creeping, minor buildup, until it erupted with the force of an avalanche. At that point, I increasingly lived in a condition not of this world for years until deciding to stop it. At that time, I had to retro-actively seek information that described what was happening.

I have hardly ever or never perceived those types of phenomenal details, unless it is rolled back a bit to where a whole chunk of desert becomes the male entity. You have at least ten non-dual pairs like that. I could probably say I sense one big one, but it is not a chakra at all, more like a Destroyer vs. Helper of the total being.

I could perhaps say that instead of energetic dakinis, I have perceived meditative Dhyanis, which to me at the time was more like a Native American totem pole. Although this could perhaps be similar to Eleven Face Avalokiteshvara if his body was a section of pole, without all the arms.

Vajrasattva or any deities I have used have no form, my visualization ability is not much better than fuzzy balls of light, which is typical for many people.

They are however some kind of spiritual presence regulated by sound, they are really regulated by the entire environment or perceptual field, but most strongly by sound.

Enlightenment is made of none other than these perceptual fields, mainly via the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment, which is what makes Vajradaka an important explanation. It could be said these are the same goddesses as in Armor Deities, which is an important early addition to Varahi or Vajrayogini according to any of the sources. They are operating in a different role, which is unable to be described as a female-only stratum, but must have Smrti as the male seed. Much of this is for the purposes of Samadhi, which at least in part is defined as visualization. It is part of Seven Syllable deity, which is something quite similar to the proper channeling of intense mantric backpressure and strange lights.

Just by discipline, yoga can physiologically be close to the same for anyone. And so in my experience, I found that the fairly broadly-defined Laya Yoga is correct, and with respect to the body, can do the same subtle or Suksma Yoga as in Buddhism. Here, however, it is more detailed. And so if they give a Vairocani--Varahi who specifically means Sahajananda or the Fourth Joy, then, from the Laya Yoga view, I am simply able to affirm there is such a thing by having experienced it, and then as a Buddhist devotee, I am now trying to galvanize the additional details being conveyed by the sadhana.

Here is perhaps a way of understanding Buddhist tantra as other than orthodox Hinduism. The normal orthodox rite uses a Conch bearing holy water characterized by Varuna. So then there is a sense that it is holy, baptismal, and a panacea or the spiritual path itself. In the Buddhist sadhanas, Varuna is almost entirely shut out, seeming to have only a minor form as a directional guardian. Instead, it is no longer really his wife, but her daughter, Varuni, who is consciously invoked into the water, which adds the element Kha or Sky to the Apas or water, and it becomes the equivalent of Soma or a lunar beverage or intoxicant. Varuni is related to Samjna and Vairocani, particularly as a process. Eventually in the powerful forms of Lakshmi we will find her followed by a Makara Rider, meaning controls the operation of the mysterious fluid. So it is like a gingerbread crumb trail of details about or stemming from Varuni, which underlie the practice, which in the end is as if becoming Varuna or gaining his Shakti. Varuna is the Indra of the Formless World.

Samjna is the name of Lotus Family's Skandha, and we also find that Lotus is the primary "giver of mantra" and related to the Throat Center and a new distribution of prana, which is the inner meaning of Generation Stage. This is mostly the Third Yoga, Pranayama, which relies on Vajra Muttering or the centering and balancing of Om Ah Hum, which can perhaps give the Fourth Yoga, Dharani or Retention, not losing the winds, which is very close to the Cemetery description of having closed all the doors.

Anything from epic poetry to song is useful to the same Lotus Family or Dharma Speech. Starting from their root syllables such as Hrih, which doesn't have to be wrathful, unless in the case of Hayagriva. Part of Varuni is in emanating the tantric Khandaroha of Lotus Family.

The closest thing to a "neck" sadhana that comes to mind is Nilakantha. That is a relatively standard take on Shiva in some way drinking poison, which turned his neck or throat blue. But that one did not suggest what you are talking about. When one talks about the endless extensions of Universe Lotus then it is called Chiliocosm, which is like the first eight hundred pages of Avatamsaka Sutra. But you have something like a massive power surge to the throat which is capable of displaying Indra's Net or Maya Jala which then itself is capable of finding the extensions.

Manjushri can do this and Namasangiti describes him as Mantra King having the Six Families.

It is virtually the same subject as in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, but a bit more precise.

Manjushri is Vagisvari and is not in Lotus Family, he is like the male half of Sarasvati, who participates in Nilakantha and turns Blue herself, which is considered a Saumya or mild form of fierce blue deities such as Ugra Tara. If we simplified the Seven Namasangiti "mandalas", and unfolded them as stages of mantric intensity, it would be something like:

Vajrasattva
Sword
Lion
Death
Dharmadhatu or Garbha Dhatu
Vajradhatu
Vagisvari Manjughosha

It matches a "system of planes", from what I can tell, Fourth = Death = Kama Loka.

The fifth or Akasha or Garbha Dhatu is usually described as the female womb into which the sixth male or Vajra is placed, and the combination of these is the real Dharmadhatu or final seventh aspect.

Semantically, it may be said that the fifth is the Dharmadhatu anyway, and the path or Bodhisattva stages is equivalent to how it is progressively revealed.

And then, Manjughosha is practically unique for introducing a Dharani system based on the Bodhisattva Bhumis.

That might be a good interpretation--Kurmapadi as a birth stance for the Red Drop. It seems to me the "Vairocanis" are not at all simultaneous, they span from the beginning of Tapas up to Sahajananda, which is the whole Yoga Path, which is practically the whole Path minus a few finishing touches.

As much has been said about Lotus Family and the meanings and energies of mantra, when Sound itself becomes centered, then you are in Akshobya tantra. Vairocana is there at first or is like the sire of Indra's Net and moves for summoning the Dharmadhatu Tower. And then Akshobya is Vajra Family which is Citta Cakra which is the Heart. So I think the "other side" of the magnetic door of the throat is both an esoterically-useful crown center, as well as the Heart as the true seat of consciousness. When the throat finally does its thing, you should have this kind of conduit. Then it is like the heart slowly unfolds forever.

You may be close to the point of seeing how plain light or Akash is given shapes and colors by the mind, which is the Shaper, or, an additional meaning of Vairocana.

[Old Student]

At that time, I had to retro-actively seek information that described what was happening.

This is it, I am consigned to write down what happened, but frequently lack the proper vocabulary. And things keep moving, there are no repeats once I've understood something, they move on, which often leaves me hanging on for dear life because I barely understood it and they think filling in all the details is something I can do on my own time.


Samjna is the name of Lotus Family's Skandha, and we also find that Lotus is the primary "giver of mantra" and related to the Throat Center and a new distribution of prana, which is the inner meaning of Generation Stage. This is mostly the Third Yoga, Pranayama, which relies on Vajra Muttering or the centering and balancing of Om Ah Hum, which can perhaps give the Fourth Yoga, Dharani or Retention, not losing the winds, which is very close to the Cemetery description of having closed all the doors.

Originally, I can remember that only my head seemed to be complex, in that there were a lot of things going on there. My throat started as just a river and a jewel. Then there was Samantabhadri and her consort there in union. And for quite a while that was it. Then this thing started where my neck shakes separately and frequently turns clear and transparent. Since then there has been a lot going on there, especially recently with there being access to the plane above my palate by flows of saliva in my mouth and upper throat. Then there has been now the addition of an energy(bliss) center at the root of my tongue, and movements there, and muscles at the base of my throat, and the neck shaking has grown more complex, especially as there has seemingly been this project to bring the rainbows and lightning up from below, and the breeze down from above.

The shaking, which really does make my neck "outsides" (which seem to include a layer or two of musculature) shake independently of my torso except for the small ring where they meet the top of my bone structure (clavicle, etc.) and at the top right at the flesh which goes to my lower jaw and to my skull. It always feels like the outside of my neck which is shaking, it always feels like someone shaking the hide of an animal. If I am inside of my throat when it happens (my point of view and feeling of being there) my neck turns transparent and I can look out of it like being against the windows in a skyscraper, except that the walls aren't uniform thickness and are curved so maybe like being against the windows in a skyscraper built by Antonio Gaudi. The jewel when I see things from that point of view is mounted on the front window, if you will, but it requires a lot to be able to see into/through it.

Last night my neck shook (for some extended periods all by itself) for hours. Because of that, I had the perception of the leathery outside shaking but also of the spine itself in the inside, dancing. As I am writing this, if I put my attention at the root of my tongue, I can see the way it was, and it keeps coming up that the outside was in a conjoining dance with the inside, the leathery animal hide outside and the dancing spine inside as its consort.

All of this is somehow part of learning to use my neck/throat properly, which does include the jewel, which I could not access last night despite the efforts of several people (myself and some Dakinis).


But that one did not suggest what you are talking about. When one talks about the endless extensions of Universe Lotus then it is called Chiliocosm, which is like the first eight hundred pages of Avatamsaka Sutra. But you have something like a massive power surge to the throat which is capable of displaying Indra's Net or Maya Jala which then itself is capable of finding the extensions.

Everything keeps seeming to push me towards this text, the Avatamsaka Sutra, yesterday I found and downloaded a print of Thomas Cleary's translation and also a copy of the Chinese text from which he translated it (I don't know how he is on stuff that comes from Sanskrit or Tibetan originally, but he is a "poetic" translator when he does Chinese, so I wanted the source for reference).



Manjushri is Vagisvari and is not in Lotus Family, he is like the male half of Sarasvati, who participates in Nilakantha and turns Blue herself, which is considered a Saumya or mild form of fierce blue deities such as Ugra Tara.

Sarasvati --> Nilakantha --> Ugra Tara --> Mahacina Krama --> Ekajati and Nairatmya?

[shaberon]

Here is the representation of how Varuni fits in the formula.


Circle of Bliss 73 (https://books.google.com/books?id=l3KmWbcq5foC&lpg=PA274&ots=LztSr0BO3O&dq=varuni%20khandaroha&pg=PA274#v=onepage&q=varuni%20khandaroha&f=false) is a review of a Nepali manuscript of Sixty-four forms of Chakrasamvara, which includes the statement that Varuni is Khandaroha. Simultaneously, in Samvarodaya, she is Mamaki. Among others, Mamaki is also Guhyeshvari, the chief universal or 1,000 Arm Adi Prajna, who is a bit different from most deities because she holds white males and green females doing anjali:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=41420&d=1566243530




Varuni contains Vairocani, and Varuni is, herself, Khandaroha and Mamaki. Vairocani is the root of Varahi and Cinnamasta. And so the additional Samvarodaya explanation would presumably over-write Vairocani over the following Varahi--temporarily perhaps, but at least at first. Khandaroha is both the Red Western Dakini, and she functions as an All-Purpose mantra (sarvakarmika) for Chakrasamvara, purifying the flask, and the environment.

The hypostatic view of Varuni compared to the Yoginis is:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=41421&d=1566243564





Directly below Guhyeshvari is Eighteen Arm Varuni; Varuni is Sky Element and Unending Ocean; her role is to prepare the practitioner with "tools" for visualization and Yogic meditation, and for the efficacy and power of mantra. She is flanked by White Sanchasani (who is normally yellow) and Blue Yamini from the Armor Deities.

Below Varuni is Varahi flanked by Four Arm Khadga Yogini (Guhyajnana Dakini) and Naro Dakini (Vidyadhari).

Below them are three Vidyadharis Phampi or Pharping Vajrayogini and Maitri Akasha Dakini, and they do not explain this central figure, who may be recognized as Sukhasiddhi, showing us the downward triangle, and perhaps the Seventh Dharma or Transference.

Below these would be Eight Matrikas, or, it interlaces into the more standard scheme of cosmology and sacred sites.

The icon is somewhat clear for distinguishment that yoginis that are able to share name or mantra with Varahi do not have to have a pig feature.

It possibly hints that Armor comes from Varuni to Varahi.

I am not quite sure how one could be Khandaroha and Mamaki. Mamaki--Guhyeshvari already has an Eighteen Arm form called Khaganana or Bird Face. It is Saffron Orange, which perhaps is an alchemy applied to Khandaroha, something like Orange Amitayus. Mamaki is also said to be Pratisara. So the whole Mamaki is rather convoluted.

Varuni is not, she is a large form which is considered the basis of the other tantric developments.

She does, at least for these purposes, have her own mantra, and does not do much besides handle the "Alcohol Pot" and enchant the liquid.

It perhaps is interesting that one of the words for Water, Jala, is the same as for Net. It may be by association, water = fishing = a net, although there is another suggestion that when used this way in the Vedas, it is derived from Jata, a braid...which we found for Ekajati just as soon means Jata, or birth.

If Varuni continues through the tantras as Khandaroha, this name is doubled as one of the Four Dakinis, and as a Sthuleshvari in a lower center. She is the main banishing deity or All-purpose for Chakrasamvara, and even gets some attention on her own.

Commemorative Essays from the Royal Asiatic Society, 1917, for some reason, singles out Khandaroha In a Nepalese Dakarnava:

The fifth chapter of this book treats of the worship of
Khandaroha ; but what is most interesting is her mandala or
mystic circle This consist of five concentric circles, the
whole forming an expanded lotus, with compartments mark-
ed out for petals. Each petal has a letter in it. The letter
is the initial letter of the name of one of the companion de-
tities (avarana-devata) of Kandaroha whose Mulamantra is
at the pericarp or karnika. The eight petals just round the
pericarp form the heart of the Mantra, those following the
heart form the neck Those round the neck form the
naval and those round the naval the head. The number
of petals in concentric circles are altogether 8 + 16+64 +
32 = 120. So Khandaroha is accompanied by 120 deities.
Of these 60 belong to the outer world and 60 to the inner
world the Macrocosm and the Microcosm. The sixty
spirits representing the outer world are deities presiding
over different countries, districts and cities of India and
the surrounding countries, not in any definite order, as will
appear from the accompanying extracts containing these
names. There is an exact agreement between these names
and their initial letters in the petals

The interest of this mandala lies in the fact that the
52nd name is Mumbani and the 52nd initial letter is Mu in
the naval, showing that there was a shrine to Devi Mum-
bani in the island of Bombay This shrine can be no
other than the present shrine of Mumba-devi on the Mala-
bar Hills, So Dakarnava in its fifth chapter speaks of
the island city of Bombay and its eponymous shrine and
deity.

The 1917 collection translates the first three chapters separately since they are in a dialect utterly unknown to the world. The fifth chapter celebrates Khandaroha, whose mantra has thirty-seven letters. Sixty-four first initials form the navel or body mandala, eight initials form the heart, thirty-two form the throat, sixteen the head. This is also the first known appearance of "Mumbai" in Sanskrit literature.

The Dakarnava is most complex, using close to a thousand deities. As we see, this simple banishing deity is herself as intricate as Chakrasamvara, becoming something almost the same.

[shaberon]

Sarasvati --> Nilakantha --> Ugra Tara --> Mahacina Krama --> Ekajati and Nairatmya?

Yes, as subjects, I believe these Blues are related.

With Manjushri, he "meets" Blue Sarasvati in his Tiksna or "Sharp" form, which is that kind of sharp tongue that can end disputes quickly.

The others are much more wrathful and or "ugly", although they have the interesting bits about using Hrim syllable, there is Laughter, and some business with Lotus Family and the addition of red items. But I would say there is a flow from the common Hindu parts, which changes into the specifically Buddhist parts such as Nairatma. Same basis, different practice.

I am not surprised the dakinis are a bit sympathy-less, expecting you to take a single lesson and hold onto it perfectly, forever.

Avatamsaka is terribly difficult, at least to me. I was able to figure out that Heavenly King Upholder of the Nations is Dhrtarashtra, and so many of those are likely translations that lose the Sanskrit original. It is so vast that I can say little other than there is such a thing.

Most of that experience sounds quite difficult. I am not in the least familiar with the base-of-the-tongue as such a focal point. But I suppose the throat center or Vishuddhi or Sambhoga Chakra must have its main part, as well as the Khecari point which is above the throat. The main chakra would seem to have more to do with mantra, the upper part related to Bliss and the Akash.

I have not really ever done "chakra work". For whatever reason, I found when they were uncluttered, they were ready to reverse the life-winds which moved to the Void. It became perhaps too easy. I am susceptible to "you can experience bliss and voidness, so the path is done". Not the case according to Buddhism. If they are less important for "leaving" the body, it is critical to Emerge in Reverse Order, the only way we can make a full or Maha Sambhoga Kaya. So there is something I eventually need to slow down and perceive the details.

[Old Student]

Here is the representation of how Varuni fits in the formula.


Circle of Bliss 73 is a review of a Nepali manuscript of Sixty-four forms of Chakrasamvara, which includes the statement that Varuni is Khandaroha. Simultaneously, in Samvarodaya, she is Mamaki. Among others, Mamaki is also Guhyeshvari, the chief universal or 1,000 Arm Adi Prajna, who is a bit different from most deities because she holds white males and green females doing anjali:

Absolutely stunning pix, this one and the next.


Directly below Guhyeshvari is Eighteen Arm Varuni; Varuni is Sky Element and Unending Ocean; her role is to prepare the practitioner with "tools" for visualization and Yogic meditation, and for the efficacy and power of mantra. She is flanked by White Sanchasani (who is normally yellow) and Blue Yamini from the Armor Deities.

Below Varuni is Varahi flanked by Four Arm Khadga Yogini (Guhyajnana Dakini) and Naro Dakini (Vidyadhari).

Do you see the foot positions of the eighteen armed Varuni and then the Varahi below her? Back when I was struggling to describe the position of the foot of the white one in my gut, this is the difference I was talking about. Varuni is in tandava position, Varahi has her foot pointed more downward.

So I went back and looked up Varuni again, and ended up reading about the Samudra Mantham. I thought I had read this before when you wrote something else, I don't know why some things didn't sink in at the time but maybe it's because some events that made them stand out hadn't happened yet or something. They are churning an ocean of milk. I saw an "ocean of milk" in the plane above my palate, I don't know whether I quoted that note here or not. Which has relevance to the present, I will explain either in this reply or to the other note you wrote.

Remember how I said I had heard that the skull bowls had entrails that got transformed to nectar? Varuni is the one who transforms them to nectar. That's probably what her mantra is about. She has that ability because she came out of the nectar after it was churned.


It perhaps is interesting that one of the words for Water, Jala, is the same as for Net.
It is very interesting. Last night the new one identified, and was doing her usual pulling on threads or spaghetti or whatever. It sometimes looks like making pasta sometimes like pulling a skein of threads. When it looks like threads, the threads have colors, all subdued, like organic dyes, and they are attached to something above, which had looked like a net. Last night it definitely looked continuous, and she moved me to a new viewpoint (sitting on the root of my tongue). It was the plane from above my palate. So all this coming at once with the ocean of milk stuff seems quite meaningful. More about what happened last night on the other reply.

[Old Student]

But I would say there is a flow from the common Hindu parts, which changes into the specifically Buddhist parts such as Nairatma. Same basis, different practice.

Sarisvati herself, though, goes into Buddhism dually, once very early because she is the river in what was then "North India", in Afghanistan or Central Asia, and once through the usual channels from Hinduism. Both she and Shiva were quite prominent in early Vajrayana of the northern variety (up above the Tibetan plateau), as was Manjushri.


I am not surprised the dakinis are a bit sympathy-less, expecting you to take a single lesson and hold onto it perfectly, forever.
Of course. But it still smarts when one is reminded so perfunctorily.


Avatamsaka is terribly difficult, at least to me. I was able to figure out that Heavenly King Upholder of the Nations is Dhrtarashtra, and so many of those are likely translations that lose the Sanskrit original. It is so vast that I can say little other than there is such a thing.

But a Sanskrit original does not exist for all of it. The Chinese text is from Khotan originally, so the hardest part will be the transliterations of any mantras, which won't be current pronunciations. From reading Cleary before, I find that being able to see what he translated when he decides to substitute is helpful. Of course, it may be so long I get tired of trying to do that.


Most of that experience sounds quite difficult. I am not in the least familiar with the base-of-the-tongue as such a focal point. But I suppose the throat center or Vishuddhi or Sambhoga Chakra must have its main part, as well as the Khecari point which is above the throat. The main chakra would seem to have more to do with mantra, the upper part related to Bliss and the Akash.

I'm not really sure which part is the chakra in my shakings, but since a wheel came out of the jewel, that is my bet. The rest, like you said, has stuff bound up in things like the jivha bandha, the khechari point and other things.

There are also all of the things that go on there that are outlined by the Daoists in things like the Neijing Tu:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/18/ae/0b18ae071664c21f45635babe7fc2ec5.jpg

In the Neijing Tu, the throat and what corresponds to the jivha bandha and khechari point is the little bridge there next to the monk who has his hands up. That's the tongue, and a cycle needs to be completed where qi has traveled up the spine from near the dantian (where the four taiji symbols are) comes down and has to be swallowed quickly. The bridge also has implications as the magpie bridge and other things.

Suffice it to say that keeping the tip of the tongue on the roof of the mouth is an absolute, to construct the magpie bridge, and I have been doing so in all of my meditation and also all of my sleeping and all of my shaking for years.

The thing I noticed, for me, I'm not sure I could give advice to others, is that the pushing the tongue at the khechari spot to make the fluids travel upwards to activate the ajna chakra -- it works much better for me if I leave the tip of my tongue where it was, and push the root of my tongue up at the khechari spot. In my shaking, this is what causes the saliva to jet backwards and upwards in my mouth and gives me access to the plane above my palate, the one I said above was sometimes an infinite pool of milk.

So last night all the parts of my throat got used in a (failed) attempt to get me to do something: to see out of the plane and see out of the jewel simultaneously. The new one moved my point of view to sitting on top of the root of my tongue looking outward forward. She had been pulling to somehow (which I didn't understand) join that plane with the jewel and get me to see through both. Instrumental to that was the energy accumulated at the root of my tongue, pushed up there by the rest of me through summoning, together with a new type of bliss that has been forming that is at every cell and feels fiery, which is a new discovery to me because once a long while back I had been to the doctor for it because I thought it was a health issue, now I find out it's a shaking energy, a bliss.

Anyway, nothing to report on what I saw, because I couldn't do it. I kept "decaying" -- which is me mixing with the breeze which is from the plane, and couldn't figure out how to combine that with the jewel-view, which takes so much bliss to even see.

So yes, Varuni holds Vairocani, the Dakini coming out of the milk holds the completely covered with lightning vines one. I guess this might make perfect sense to me at some point.

[shaberon]

We have a type of illustrated guide to some of the major Varahi transmissions, which, extracted from Tibetan Deities, largely concurs with the depiction that the rite of Nagaraja includes Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra, which soon hurls into Vajrayogini, to the extent of using names from Dakini Jala. Vajra Yogini speaks the Secret Doctrine of Dakini Jala, even if major websites have difficulty making this simple attachment, from not reading the inscriptions.

Historically, Guhyasamaja is "Esoteric Community" and something like the first comprehensive tantra of Generation and Completion, which "technique", so to speak,Lokottara, is then applied pretty specifically to Vajrayogini, which historically means amongst female adepts, and into Cinnamasta as well as her consorting roles to Chakrasamvara, Hevajra, or Vajradhara.

But then there is an un-illustrated guide which is not the same as the Tibetan basket.


Although Rinjung Gyatsa and Sadhanamala both have about ten kinds of Vajravarahi, they are nowhere close to the same thing.

RG is clear about the famous ones, Indra--Naro--Maitri dakinis, and that they are immediately whipped into the triple blend that is Cinnamasta. It may be approximately backwards, giving the head loss first and the Samaya at the end. So this is pretty close to Pabonkha and/or most of the accessible sadhanas called Vajrayogini.

Sadhanamala is older, and, we cannot prove how much of it may have been composed ca. year 500, but it was completed around the 1100s, around the time Naro and some of the other transmissions had only begun.

In scanning it for boars, half of them are Marici and her attendants, there is no way to go very far with Marici without the pigs. Her Horse Chariot is approximately the breaking point. She inhales Varahi so to speak, can fill the cosmos with millions of them, can pave all evil into Vajra Bhumi or Golden Ground. In terms of who can do something noteworthy, it is definitely Marici.

Most of the Maricis are counted as having a left red pig face. The larger ones counted as having an upwards pig face have it in blue. 145 has two of them, a left red one, and a right that is saindhavacchāyaṃ. 146 has a left blue one.

For some reason, artists become illiterate when trying to deal with Picuva Marici, just like with Mantranusarini in the wild Pancha Raksa 206. Picu is important to the extent cotton or weaving is--which seems to be very--and Picu Mata means Kubjika Tantra, whereas in Buddhism, Picu is Prajna Vardhani, which is Sarasvati, Vajra Sarasvati, Prajnaparamita, and Marici.

Marici never has a Ghona, it is always a whole face, but not her main one. In fact, it is rare to ever find any full frontal pig face, which is only Arthasiddhi, Sridhara's Cinnamasta, or a Boar Face Tramen or Gatekeeper. For the most part, it is rare for Varahi to show more than a small Ghona, and what we see in Sadhanamala is that there is hardly any pig to her, and that there are hints at Cinnamasta without digging in to her Triple mantra. It usually does not even give her a color. And so even though it uses Varahi's name, the forms are mostly all Vajrayogini or human face.

We do not have a convenient set of Rinjung Lhantab color frames to match it. It perhaps is like the Rinjung Gyatsa, it gives a complex Chakrasamvara aspect at the beginning, and runs on to basic things, so it could just be backwards. To make a few quick ideas about what these Varahis are, we get:

Vairocani--Varahi 217 is a type of Maitri Dakini which has Ali Kali, Inverted Stupa, the top parts of mandala components, Four Dakinis, Jnana Cakra and Maya Cakra Jala as part of Four Activities, Armor, Tri-kaya, stands on Bhairava and Kalaratri in Pratyalidha, and is defined as Sahajananda.


218 distributes the twenty-four devis such as Khandaroha and Khaganana to the three chakras. This one is related to Hrih, Akshobya, Pracanda (Cinnamasta), Jvala Mudra, Asta Loka related to Samaya Samvara, Siddhe Sati mantra japa, Gandhamantrena, and Prajnaloka's sadhana. Lacks a colophon or personal mantra.


219 does half of Inverted Stupa to the Triangle, which has Eight Samaya syllables, pertaining to Vajradhara and Amrita Rupa. It refers to Three Tattvas and her Karota or skullcup; this one is likely red. Usually, they match the color of the final element of the spawn sequence.


220 is two sentences, a form without color, which is nabhidese.


221 begins with the unusual invocation: bhavagavyai āryyavajravārāhyai. Right after that, she is Bhagavati Guhyeshvari. Her Vidyadharas are pisaci, rakshasha, kinnara, and bhuta, who are jalajasthalajāni, in some type of Net, followed shortly by Indra Jala. She gains Stambhana--stoppage or Paralysis--and has a long dharani calling her Bhagavati Vajravarahi Arya Aparajita. The practice is called Jvalamukhi Sadhana Prayoga.


222 is a short Mahamaya addition to the previous.


223 is a short Cemetery Mahamaya which perhaps discusses the eight syllables.


224 is a red four arm version with a Ghona, having several mantras based in Hrih, and is a Vajrayogini.


225 is Oddiyana Vajra Pitha Varahi, a red two arm form that is Varnani, which does Inverted Stupa and has the Four Dakinis.


226 is the Cemetery Vairocana goddess who casts Armor, makes Samaya to Vajradakini, defines Vairocani as her heart and Varnani as her near-heart.


227 seems to be the same one, but just uses Vairocani mantra. Both of these are a Samksipta or "summary".


If you run it backwards, you get Vairocani, Varnani, Pig, Mahamaya, Aparajita--Guhyeshvari, and then tantric descriptions or Chakrasamvara and Sahajananda. That may be a little closer to the "order" she goes in. There is also more attention to her as Jvalamukhi, which would seemingly contradict Pig Face.

Aside from the fact these are all called Varahi, it would be the piece-by-piece building of the same type of thing we are using Varuni for, particularly the Inverted Stupa and the Armor. And then since one stream of arising is Varuni --> Vairocani --> Varahi, there is no contradiction. We are dealing with the same principles or methods used in sadhanas, moved off where possible to either an outer Yoga deity, or, to definitive ones--such as the Gauris are parts of consciousness when affected by Generation Stage--no one can really own that. No one else could possibly own your own bodily Elements or your mind. However the deities which are Yidams and/or Nirmanakayas are a little different. Jnanadakini--Simhamukha and Vajravarahi are like this. That is why we would be virtually forced to employ Guhyajnana Dakini--who is part of Avalokiteshvara, and more or less the definition of a self-arisen fifth dakini. Because Ziro Bhusana is defined as "over" these five classes, then, if you are able to bond with the five, she is lurking in the background somewhere.

I am not sure if we can find all forty-six sadhanas of Guhyasamaja Sadhanamala which is all Varahi. It is the source of her Twelve-Arm form which has a massive, complex mandala. With this group here, I get a much more specific sense of Vajrayogini and some of the things that constitute her Secret Doctrine. That, itself, contains little if anything new if you have studied the practices, it will refer to Six Limb Yoga, Abhisambodhi, and Five of the Eight Dissolutions of Death. Therefor, the only superior practices are those which go through the Three Voids and Great Void. This is everything Equal to the End of the Sky as Vajrasattva says.

[shaberon]

So yes, Varuni holds Vairocani, the Dakini coming out of the milk holds the completely covered with lightning vines one. I guess this might make perfect sense to me at some point.

I sometimes blow by the basics, but, in Buddhist tantra, the Puranic lessons most immediately relevant to practice are Ocean of Milk and the subjugation of Maheshvara by Vajrapani and Ghasmari, converting the Hindu entities.

The Wars in Heaven, Tvastr--Horse Head--Aswins, Pleiades, and Ganges are also important, but maybe more difficult and less of a pressing issue.

From the Milk issue about fourteen various entities, depending on the Purana consulted, but generally include the Kaustabha Gem, Lakshmi, and Varuni. This is a "smaller" Lakshmi, and, we would have reason to add, a daughter Varuni, rather than Varuna's wife.

Then Varuni--Khandaroha may be considered the Soma, the Nectar, and the transmutation of impure substances. She is purely non-Hindu since her main flask is really Alcohol, at least figuratively. If you have a physical one, it might be tea, but if you use a mental one, it could be considered wine, hallucinogenic moon juice, milk and honey, or holy water, anything that has an "altering" effect.

Bharati is the container, the cup or skull itself, becoming Sukha Bharati and then Maha Sukha Bharati, since her role is Sukha Vardhani, "increasing", which is like a red parallel of Prajna Vardhani. Of course, the Sakya Three Reds are not the only way to do Completion, not even in Sakya itself, but are a coherent pattern unique to them. It is almost like saying "a Completion Stage in Lotus Family". Bharati is a form of Vasudhara. The Three Reds pattern does not remark anything about Vasudhara, but Namasangiti does, in fact it pegs a highly syncretic occult form of her as the special intro for the sequence of Paramitas. As much as she begins the sequence of Dharanis corresponding to Paramitas, hardly any of them can compare to the Vasudhara dharanis there must be.

That is correct that Sanskrit editions are not found for both Tibetan and Chinese material that says it is a translation. In some cases, we get trouble when there are attempts to back-translate. In others, we get the only surviving copy of a thing. One of my favorites was from C. A. Muses around 1961; it is supposed to be a Tson Kha Pa manuscript; if so, he comes across as a crypto-Nyingma or Rime' or nowhere near exclusive to his own school. What is curious is why is it a pattern of Seven Initiations. This one is from Sichuan, where it is fairly accurate to say there is an ancient, direct pilgrimage link to Tibet, compared to most of the rest of China, which could be more described as fire-and-forget. Most Buddhist countries get a few scholars or pilgrims once in a while, and mostly develop their own systems. Compared to the Tulku hierarchy of Tibet, it can only really be said that Mongolia is a direct product, having its own Chutuktu or Tulku, and Buryatia being an offshoot of this. Comparatively, Ladakh has never considered the Dalai Lama as a direct authority, even though they mainly stay in communion with his school.

The Daoist diagram looks like a spine.

I take it Dantian = Tanden (?) which we called "center of gravity". It looks like a Pancha Jina on fire, which makes sense to me, even if I just think of a center as Four Gatekeepers around a filament whose nature is the A syllable.

There is a good chance that the slightly-swung-outwards foot of Varahi says something that a fully-retracted foot does not. It is along the lines that an identifying feature of some of these similar deities is whether the trampled Bhairava is face up or down. Under scrutiny, almost every single detail has some kind of meaning. The grid of yoginis seems to cover her main foot patterns; even Guhyajnana looks a bit like the reverse stance that Charchika does.

I do not know the nuances, other than Parnasabari stance is a lower prana blockage, Indra Dakini really has feet in all fourteen Lokas and Talas, and that Tandava is not supposed to ever be done by girls. Some of these devis have been breaking that rule for centuries. If only they knew what I know, I am sure they would refrain. Hah!

Ocean of Milk you are seeing perhaps is Akash of the Head?

Otherwise, I have been unsure, why, as born from milk, Varuni would carry the Akash element into the ritual liquid. Why should she? It has already been formed from Akash. I guess it is like adding more of the "unformed" kind, which would build energy to fly out of a Dharmodaya or Reality Source. That would be like taking one's blank, raw brain energy and carefully shaping it into something useful.

Vairocani is "found" amidst the Soma-drinking. Just because we are able to isolate a Green Taditkara who specifically has creeper-like lightning, it is only "so" in that Pancha Daka or Hevajra practice. Possibly others can handle it similarly, maybe a minor Ekajati. It is hard to tell them no, if they are going to dance Tandava, they can probably either cast lightning bolts, or hold ball lightning or plasma.

Very intriguing about actually perceiving inner electricity along with milk. It sounds like something I would not be able to balance or pierce in a matter of only a few days.

I am not sure about fire in every cell, unless one is doing the expansive Tummo and melting the snow. Mine was simply always able to withdraw. One day in the cafeteria I had Inner Heat but some of it slipped out, and then it did feel like part of me was about to combust. The next person could easily sense the high temperature streaming off the area, and said that part of my back was as red as a beet. That is one of the few instances I can recall where something didn't work right, and also was proven to be completely physical. I didn't melt much of anything, although I remember it taking a long time to stop.

[shaberon]

I found some grammar clarifications

There are "Kalpoktam" deities and pujas, from Nava Durga, to Sani--Saturn, to Kurukulla and Marici. I did not think it was a compound, since Kalpa famously means "Age or time period", but that is an extrapolation. The basis of it refers to order, and the science of medicine is kalpa upanishad or kalpopanishad. Similarly, kalpa may mean order as in ceremonial rules for rituals and sacrifices and hymns. And then "Ukta" means "has been said"; combining them is Kalpokta, something like the ceremony has been described.

Another "has been said" is Bhasita, as in the quizzical Vajrayogini Bhasitam of Vadiraj Manjushri (sword, tiksna, or sharp). This possibly is a bit like saying he meets or is going to meet Sarasvati or Blue Sarasvati.

At the beginning and throughout Sadhanamala is the phrase Samaya Samvara. It is not about the deity Chakrasamvara, it is a basic Buddhist tenet similar to Vrata or Vow. The Samvara actually is the Vow or set of vows, and the Samaya is the conduct that represents and upholds it. There is nothing really in the meanings of samvara that pertains to bliss.


Frequently in Buddhism the heart center is called Citta Cakra, having eight main spokes which are the main nerves to the organism.

The Dakarnava Tantra is slightly different--it renames the center like the famous gesture, Dharma Cakra, and uses a unique naming scheme for the main branches:

(1) Prayagi (2) Devikoti (3) Ujjayini (4) Mahalaksmi (5) Jvalamukhi (6) Siddhasimbhali (7) Mahili (8) Kaumaripauriki

Dakarnava has many chakras, it can perhaps be found to stem from the other tantras, but is considerably more difficult.

We found both Kurma Padi and Jvala Mukhi to be associated with, or perhaps better descriptions in some cases, of Vajravarahi. Jvalamukhi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawalamukhi) is the Tongue Pitha, and in general can be a volcano or eternal flame. She is a Shakta (http://www.shivashakti.com/jvala.htm) practice who unites Waxing and Waning Moon, in a piece that refers to lightning competing with the effulgence of a pale red gem. Her original site is in Himachal Pradesh, but there are others (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jwala_Ji).


In Kubjika Tantra, the Khecari chakra is defined as the one at or above the head, and is made of or uses multiple mandalas, Surya being first, and Jvalamukhi is in that.

The Vajradaka Tantra is generally close to Kubjika, however:

Jvālāmukhī (ज्वालामुखी) or Mahālakṣmī is the name of a Goddess (Devī) presiding over Kollagiri: one of the twenty-four sacred districts mentioned in the 9th century Vajraḍākatantra (chapter 18). Her weapon is the khaḍga. Furthermore, Jvālāmukhī is accompanied by the Kṣetrapāla (field-protector) named Mahāvrata [Agnimukha] and their abode is the nimba-tree [or the top of the mountain].

Mysteriously:

Vajrajvālāmukhī (वज्रज्वालामुखी) refers to the Ḍākinī of the north-eastern corner situated in the Kāyacakra, according to the 10th century Ḍākārṇava chapter 15. Accordingly, the kāyacakra refers to one of the four divisions of the nirmāṇa-puṭa (‘emanation layer’), situated in the Herukamaṇḍala.


Kurma Nadi as related to the heart center is related to Patanjali's system. Here, we find that Six Limb Yoga is like a mirrored reversal of his scheme. What we are doing is, of course, based on the same thing, but refined and changed.

According to Kṛṣṇavallabhācārya’s Kiraṇa on Patañjali’s Yogasūtras 3.7-8, “The tortoise-nerve (kūrmanāḍī) is said to be the same as the Nāḍīcakra in the heart.”

Kūrmanāḍī (कूर्मनाडी).—Whem saṃyama (the simultaneous workings of dhāraṇa, dhyāna and samādhi) is directed on the Kūrmanāḍī (canal of the tortoise), it ensures the immobilisation (sthairya) of thought.

The ten nāḍīs where the yogī in meditation retains the five prāṇas form the nāḍicakra.

At the bottom of the nābhi (nābhīkanda) innumerable nāḍīs or nerves originate or sprout up. 72,000 such nāḍīs exist at the centre of the nābhi (navel). The whole body is filled with these nāḍīs spread out in parallel and horizontal positions, and they exist in the form of circles entwined with one another. Ten nāḍīs are prominent amongst them, i.e. Iḍā, Piṅgalā, Suṣumnā, Gāndhārī, Hastijihvā, Pṛthā, Yaśā, Alambuṣā, Kuhā and Śaṅkhinī. Any defect or harm caused to any one of these ten nāḍīs may lead even to death.

The rest of the description re-iterates Kurma (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/compilation/puranic-encyclopaedia/d/doc241780.html) as a life-wind that causes "bulging of the eyes".

[Old Student]

Marici never has a Ghona, it is always a whole face, but not her main one. In fact, it is rare to ever find any full frontal pig face, which is only Arthasiddhi, Sridhara's Cinnamasta, or a Boar Face Tramen or Gatekeeper. For the most part, it is rare for Varahi to show more than a small Ghona, and what we see in Sadhanamala is that there is hardly any pig to her, and that there are hints at Cinnamasta without digging in to her Triple mantra. It usually does not even give her a color. And so even though it uses Varahi's name, the forms are mostly all Vajrayogini or human face.

There's definitely something missing here, something I'm unable to comprehend. The not frontal head on Marici is a Boar? Varahi is a "Wild Sow", not a boar. So there has to be some difference. Also, my Shakti source (I mentioned before, I have someone who was brought up Shakti who sometimes comments on things about this stuff) insists, that always always always, the depictions, especially the extra heads and arms, are about powers or acquired attributes.

So there has to be more to "pig" whether "pig" or "wild sow" or "boar" than just desire/ignorance. Or it is a power that paradoxically one acquires by somehow harnessing desire/ignorance. Or in the case of the pigs drawing Marici's chariot, maybe returning a favor or expressing gratitude or something. It has to mean something.


Vairocani--Varahi 217 is a type of Maitri Dakini which has Ali Kali, Inverted Stupa, the top parts of mandala components, Four Dakinis,
Jnana Cakra and Maya Cakra Jala as part of Four Activities, Armor, Tri-kaya, stands on Bhairava and Kalaratri in Pratyalidha, and is defined as Sahajananda.

What is Maya Cakra Jala?


...who are jalajasthalajāni, in some type of Net, followed shortly by Indra Jala.

This is maybe meant to be some kind of symbol or play on words? Ostensibly jalalasthalajani should mean, "those borne of water and living on dry land." But like you say, there must be some kind of Net here.


Aside from the fact these are all called Varahi, it would be the piece-by-piece building of the same type of thing we are using Varuni for, particularly the Inverted Stupa and the Armor. And then since one stream of arising is Varuni --> Vairocani --> Varahi, there is no contradiction.
[...]
That is why we would be virtually forced to employ Guhyajnana Dakini--who is part of Avalokiteshvara, and more or less the definition of a self-arisen fifth dakini. Because Ziro Bhusana is defined as "over" these five classes, then, if you are able to bond with the five, she is lurking in the background somewhere.
[...]
I get a much more specific sense of Vajrayogini and some of the things that constitute her Secret Doctrine.

Interesting. As a Hindu deity, Varahi is a fifth -- the fifth of the Matrikas.

[Old Student]

I have read through this one, and have comments, but I am supposed to go to Urgent Care, and so I'm writing this in case I can't get anything written today after I do (they may decide to cover my eyes, in which case I'll have to wait to respond).

Back again, if they do anything it will be Monday.

[Old Student]

I sometimes blow by the basics, but, in Buddhist tantra, the Puranic lessons most immediately relevant to practice are Ocean of Milk and the subjugation of Maheshvara by Vajrapani and Ghasmari, converting the Hindu entities.

My 'ocean of milk' doesn't have a mountain with a snake wrapped around it and a turtle under it churning it by a tug of war, but it is infinite, and usually thin.


Then Varuni--Khandaroha may be considered the Soma, the Nectar, and the transmutation of impure substances. She is purely non-Hindu since her main flask is really Alcohol, at least figuratively. If you have a physical one, it might be tea, but if you use a mental one, it could be considered wine, hallucinogenic moon juice, milk and honey, or holy water, anything that has an "altering" effect.

This all seems very old, the Soma thing pre-dates Vedic times, there were remains excavated in the north that were buried with ganja plants covering them, and the creation myth of Khotan is about an earth breast that suckles an abandoned child-king.


One of my favorites was from C. A. Muses around 1961; it is supposed to be a Tson Kha Pa manuscript; if so, he comes across as a crypto-Nyingma or Rime' or nowhere near exclusive to his own school. What is curious is why is it a pattern of Seven Initiations. This one is from Sichuan, where it is fairly accurate to say there is an ancient, direct pilgrimage link to Tibet, compared to most of the rest of China, which could be more described as fire-and-forget.

Tsongkha pa means the 'pa' from Tsongkha. Sometimes translated as "Onion Valley" because in local dialects and even in modern Chinese (Mandarin), tsong means 'onion'. It's a southeast direction valley off the main Silk route through the Eastern Taklamakan, past Qinghai Lake (Koko Nur), that was often independent and just as often run by gangs. It was a major way around the Tangut Empire for a while for people going to China, it was also a way into Tibet and sometimes part of Amdo. So if your copy is from Sichuan, it might actually be pretty ancient.


The Daoist diagram looks like a spine.

I take it Dantian = Tanden (?) which we called "center of gravity". It looks like a Pancha Jina on fire, which makes sense to me, even if I just think of a center as Four Gatekeepers around a filament whose nature is the A syllable.

Right on both counts. The diagram is a Daoist alchemical diagram of the human body, and that thing on the right is the spine. The ocean at the bottom is "essence" (sexual essence), it's being pumped up to be heated at the dantian (like the A syllable), and then it should circulate in what is called the "microcosmic orbit". It's a thing to be memorized like the Tibetans memorize thangkas. It's also celestial, the weaver girl and the jade boy (the one playing with the dipper at the heart) are separated by the celestial river (Milky Way), and need to have the magpie bridge (at the mouth) form to see each other.


There is a good chance that the slightly-swung-outwards foot of Varahi says something that a fully-retracted foot does not. It is along the lines that an identifying feature of some of these similar deities is whether the trampled Bhairava is face up or down. Under scrutiny, almost every single detail has some kind of meaning. The grid of yoginis seems to cover her main foot patterns; even Guhyajnana looks a bit like the reverse stance that Charchika does.

I noticed that, I saved the grid so I can see if I can find out what they all mean at some point. Not sure they can actually be accused of doing tandava, that's what I called it. Although in my notes it's tandava-lasya, which I think the latter is their dance?


Ocean of Milk you are seeing perhaps is Akash of the Head?
How would I identify this?


Very intriguing about actually perceiving inner electricity along with milk. It sounds like something I would not be able to balance or pierce in a matter of only a few days.

To be fair, the electricity has not mixed with the milk yet.

I was primed up again to see through both places last night. When the big moment came I literally saw nothing -- only the usual backs of my eyelids. I have obviously some ways to go. Mixing milk and lightning isn't really that odd, I think. They are both creative juices of a sort.


I am not sure about fire in every cell, unless one is doing the expansive Tummo and melting the snow. Mine was simply always able to withdraw. One day in the cafeteria I had Inner Heat but some of it slipped out, and then it did feel like part of me was about to combust. The next person could easily sense the high temperature streaming off the area, and said that part of my back was as red as a beet. That is one of the few instances I can recall where something didn't work right, and also was proven to be completely physical. I didn't melt much of anything, although I remember it taking a long time to stop.



Wow, that sounds really cool (if possibly uncomfortable at the time). This is that kind of heat, but at the very tiny level, and the shaking involved is very tiny as well, since it is at around 300 vibrations per minute. The bliss that it creates is also sort of cellular, it soaks into things like fluid moving in a sponge, instead of flowing like a channel.

[Old Student]

At the beginning and throughout Sadhanamala is the phrase Samaya Samvara. It is not about the deity Chakrasamvara, it is a basic Buddhist tenet similar to Vrata or Vow. The Samvara actually is the Vow or set of vows, and the Samaya is the conduct that represents and upholds it. There is nothing really in the meanings of samvara that pertains to bliss.

No, not directly, but samvara means closure or union, and that is where the "bliss" notion comes in, or in this case where a vow would come in.


At the bottom of the nābhi (nābhīkanda) innumerable nāḍīs or nerves originate or sprout up. 72,000 such nāḍīs exist at the centre of the nābhi (navel). The whole body is filled with these nāḍīs spread out in parallel and horizontal positions, and they exist in the form of circles entwined with one another. Ten nāḍīs are prominent amongst them, i.e. Iḍā, Piṅgalā, Suṣumnā, Gāndhārī, Hastijihvā, Pṛthā, Yaśā, Alambuṣā, Kuhā and Śaṅkhinī. Any defect or harm caused to any one of these ten nāḍīs may lead even to death.

I had been wondering if the "cellular level" bliss had anything to do with the 72,000 channels, but they don't feel like flows through channels, they feel like cells, or like hollows in a sponge.

[shaberon]

Yes, practically any change to a deity is an additional meaning, a further attribute, a deeper and more profound level. That is why I say there are "patterns" underlying the many sadhanas. For the most part, that is what I am studying. That is because they do not usually follow a linear format. Some of it may be backwards. Sometimes, the "important thing" is in the middle. Eventually, there is fusion, like in Kalachakra, Viswamata is a fusion of Prajnaparamita and Vajradhatvishvari. This is nearly identical to what we are saying about Marici, who inevitably--and plainly visually--acquires Vajravarahi, just not by name.

Marici frequently uses expressions such as:

vāmaṃ vārāhaṃ raktaṃ

(left boar red)

but she also uses the synonym Sukara (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/sukara) for animals and faces, which has the additional meanings of hell, or a swine-like woman.

The color is frequently incorrectly painted "natural" on her pig feature, which is a full face, but not the front one. She has it in this unusual Chinese double Marici. Her upper form holds a sun with the character for "sun". The "actual" sun in the middle is marked with "three-legged crow in the guise of a golden rooster". The lower one is probably a Kalpoktam, the most commonly-found large form, with one boar (or sow) face:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/2/2/0/220.jpg





Marici is also a Sanmukhi or Six Faces, a trait that is usually only shared with Mars--Karttikeya--Manjushri. This 1400s Sakya mural is one of the only things to follow the description properly and make her upper pig face blue:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/2/5/42582.jpg




Sometimes I guess they are just loose with the gender, it may sound male in reference to "face", whether sow or boar, the same animal is intended. If I was to even think about it, I would start with the simple Bhu Devi whose mount is a Boar (the Earth) and subsequently that Marici's minor form simply rides a boar rather than chariot. Then I would go through Vishnu's Varaha avatar and that Varahi is his shakti, not his mother--who is one of the Mahavidyas. These avatars are a fractal which represents the formation of the planet (Varaha lifting the crust from the water) and formation of a human being (pig stage of fetal development).

Desire or Kama is the riddle of Kama Dhatvishvari, and this mystery of Mars and heat that turns white things red is a question of mortal Kama contrasted to Divine Desire.

Varahi is usually "fifth" which is also for the Nagas.

Varaha's consort is Bhu, and Mars is tricky because:

His origins vary with different mythological texts; in some, he is the son of Bhumi, the Earth Goddess and Vishnu, born when he raised her from the depths of water in Varaha avatar. In other myths, he is born from Shiva's sweat or blood drop.

And we have also found him as being produced by six mayavic Agni seeds due to the Pleiades.

Bhu is Varahi in the Hindu sense, concurrently with Vasudhara, Prithvi, Dharti, and other names, her children being Narakasura, Sita, and Mars, in some way.

In the tantric sense, Matsya Varahi or Fat Varahi holding a Fish is probably the closest to the Buddhist Varahi. The Hindu one definitely has one full pig face. Her Fish likely re-appears as the one or two Varuni may be on. She also is allowed the consort ‎Shiva as Unmatta Bhairava, which would be the lowest part of the Nepalese Varahi "grid" if all the other stuff was attached.

Vajrapani explains her as "trapped in hell" and being released, which is why I think there is some chance that, unassisted, a person who starts tinkering with Varahi may be in for a bit of an unpleasant surprise.

Just about everything we discuss is a duality of opposites, such as Anger and its opposite Akshobya or Undisturbable. Or the Pisaca is a disease as well as its cure. And I think Varahi is like this, but total soul--total mind versus their ruin. Marici can operate for a while without such an experience, but, if one developed her, the incoming pig power is limitless.

It is a bit weird that the Shakta take on Jvalamukhi uses Varuni as the first of the sixteen throat flames, when Varuni by any nomenclature is liquid.

Mukhi is usually "face" in most descriptions of forms, but, in this instance, it is closer to its basic meaning, "mouth", since it is the flame of Sati's tongue.

The Jvalamukhi Varahis are the only jvalamukhis in the book. She is Bhava:

Bhava (“becoming”).—States of being that develop first in the mind and can then be experienced as internal worlds and/or as worlds on an external level. There are three levels of becoming: on the sensual level (Kama), the level of form (Rupa or fine material), and the level of formlessness (Arupa).

and Gavya:

Milk.

There is little, if any, other Gavya in the book, although Lightning Ekajati has:

gavyaghṛtena homaṃ

Jvalamukhi's sadhana is a Prayoga, which is an important form of Virya, which is constantly re-iterated in the Paramitas, the Jewels of Enlightenment, etc., and its meaning is found therein:

2) Vīrya (वीर्य, “energy”) or Trivīrya refers to the “three kinds of energy” as defined in the Dharma-saṃgraha (section 109):

saṃnāha-vīrya (energy as armour),
prayoga-vīrya (energy as practice),
pariniṣṭhā-vīrya (energy as accomplishment).

It is energy-as-practice which becomes Milk in the mind and subsequently in all the world systems.

Sometimes related to the Milky Way, no, I would not expect anyone to necessarily glimpse a replay of the Churning of the Ocean, just the stuff itself. If there is some diffuse, milky-way-like substance, this must be pretty close to the Akash or what it says Varuni brings into mundane liquid. In yoga when you quell the many mechanisms of the brain, then it becomes an infusion of this energy which is solar in origin or is Marici or an aspect of her, Akasha Dhatvishvari or the akash in the head.

This particular Varahi could hardly be more about the Tongue and some Milk, in a way that nothing else is, and for whatever reason, she is packing Indra Jala in her kit. She is the only Guhyesvari in the book.

Bhattacharya maintains that Arya Vajravarahi (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/aryavajravarahi) means her four armed form, so, this one and the Mahamayas are likely identical to the one described in the following sadhana 224. The material is implausibly brief, except for the length of the dharani, if you can memorize that, you are Manjushri.

It is not often you find a four arm Varahi or Vajrayogini, and it is only one time this is in conjunction with the characteristics we have been able to identify, including fire, the tongue, and milk. This may not be meaningful unless you are in the precarious position of knowing fully well there is some kind of mental and nervous link between the internal heat and electrical pressure and the milk or akash.

The "dance" is called tandava, even on some goddesses, although there are other expressions, such as "standing ardhaparyanka" compared to the sitting one of Tara. Sanskrit is interesting, because in some cases, ten synonyms mean the same thing, and then sometimes, a small deviation of the foot is meant to be noticed. Lasya is a term for dance, as is Nrtya, like in Padmanartesvara. If we think in Dakini Jala terms, Wrathful Amitabha is Padmanartesvara, Lotus Lord of the Dance--or even just Nartesvara.

I misread Maya Cakra Jala thinking it was a spin from Maya Jala, but that phrase is really about Samaya Cakra. Samaya Samvara is especially relevant to Entering the Mandala when one is supposed to do the vows of the Families.

[shaberon]

Elizabeth English says Vajravarahi as hog face arises from the retinue in Krishna Yamari tantra (Charchika, Varahi, Sarasvati, Gauri), since the commentator reveals:

ghonam iti sukaramukhim

(a ghona is a hog's face)

So GSS Vajraghona 18 is the same as Sadhanamala 224.

These are Arthasiddhi, who matches the correct items:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/7/9/0/79088.jpg





https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/2/40270.jpg





The fact that a word meaning "nose/snout/beak" has to be interpreted as "whole face" is taken up in her Vajrayogini (https://books.google.com/books?id=vDE6AwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA66&ots=RCVBbI5tBj&dq=vajraghona&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q=vajraghona&f=false) book on the subject of whether a word is a qualifier/adjective or an epithet/name. Much like Bhrkuti can be found several times as a facial expression by anyone, even here, along with karalavadana and lalajjihve.

Sadhanamala 224 is in Alidha, which is an archer stance, the one with a reversed leg. It does not say she is on a corpse or Bhairava. Non-Buddhists have remarked that our Varahi is Maya. This one arises from Hrih and says Hrim, so, she is at least fairly close to the Maya syllable.

If Krishna Yamari is much of a guide--which we think it is, since here is where we also find the one retinue of Janguli--then perhaps we should question the literal interpretation of ghona as a snout or small face, particularly coming out of her ear. We cannot dispose of it immediately, but, Sadhanamala is conversant with Krishna Yamari by referring to it at least one time, and, this is the only Ghona in the book, or, actually, Vajraghona. It may mean "nose", since it is in a sequence with her mouth and tongue, but if so, would it not just say ghona?

If Arya Vajravarahi means a copy of her four arm form, this is probably it. That would suggest there is no reason for any two arm Varahi to have any pig anything, at least from these sources.

In the Vajrayogini's contents (https://www.namsebangdzo.com/Vajrayogini-Her-Visualizations-Rituals-and-Form-p/11566.htm), there are Red and White Vajraghonas. Or, the whole text (http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Vajrayogini_Her_Visualzation,_Rituals_and_Forms) is available, and we could pick through it. This is similar to Sadhanamala, completed around the 1200s, including her six arm form from Krishna Yamari, and, her twelve-arm form from this 1300s Kagyu mandala:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/8/8/5/88562.jpg




That one should go with the major Umapatti sadhana and the intense retinue we can get the details for.

What can be gleaned, I am not sure, I got a lot out of finding how Jvalamukhi fits.

[Old Student]

The lower Marici in the first image is in nearly the position that the new one is in -- the legs are almost in baddha konasana, the central hands look very much like if you freeze framed the new one when she is pulling on threads/spaghetti.
Interesting about the three-legged rooster in a sun -- a symbol of Japan, maybe? Japan is famously 日本, "sun root" or "land of the rising sun". The symbol of the monarchy there is the rooster, who tricked the sun into coming out of a cave.

The little I was able to dig into Sukara suggests a specific meaning for the pig, as a state of hell (as you did mention) characterized by being reborn in the animal realm -- this word is used for that and not the others -- and suggests that, at least in Buddhism, this has something to do with being lifted out of the hell of animal existence by -- conversion to Buddhism/enlightenment/maybe light itself?


gavyaghṛtena homaṃ
something about the brick of milk in the ritual fire?

Jvalamukhi's sadhana is a Prayoga, which is an important form of Virya, which is constantly re-iterated in the Paramitas, the Jewels of Enlightenment, etc., and its meaning is found therein:


2) Vīrya (वीर्य, “energy”) or Trivīrya refers to the “three kinds of energy” as defined in the Dharma-saṃgraha (section 109):

saṃnāha-vīrya (energy as armour),
prayoga-vīrya (energy as practice),
pariniṣṭhā-vīrya (energy as accomplishment).

It is energy-as-practice which becomes Milk in the mind and subsequently in all the world systems.

I found this (https://www.learnreligions.com/virya-paramita-perfection-of-energy-449709) related to a longer explanation of these Trivirya. If I understand correctly, the first virya is to develop armor -- the ability to withstand adversity and criticism, the second, the energy-as-practice, is the ability to take what one has learned beyond what has been taught. And the third is to develop bodhicitta to benefit all beings. The second is milk?


Sometimes related to the Milky Way, no, I would not expect anyone to necessarily glimpse a replay of the Churning of the Ocean, just the stuff itself. If there is some diffuse, milky-way-like substance, this must be pretty close to the Akash or what it says Varuni brings into mundane liquid. In yoga when you quell the many mechanisms of the brain, then it becomes an infusion of this energy which is solar in origin or is Marici or an aspect of her, Akasha Dhatvishvari or the akash in the head.

This particular Varahi could hardly be more about the Tongue and some Milk, in a way that nothing else is, and for whatever reason, she is packing Indra Jala in her kit. She is the only Guhyesvari in the book.

This is comforting. The new one is pulling down on something making spaghetti like pieces or pulling on threads, which displace the plane (that would be the bottom of the layer of milk) in a way as to connect it to the jeweled net. That kind of means that the milk is resting on a huge net made of fine colored threads.

The whole thing is connected up inside, but I can't really perceive it yet. There are shakings full of that fire vibrating in the cells and neck and throat movements and buzzing at my tongue, but I "sleep" through them somehow, because they are beyond me to perceive and stay cognizant. Last night, I was awake and aware but through a film of "dream" that was sort of protecting me from something that is somehow beyond my ability to see in its full form. Through the dream film (which makes it less brilliant and sort of blurry and down to a normal number of dimensions), it looks like the thing I described to you before the wheel and the infinite interpenetration and the "me" standing like a thousand armed being, but repeated five times in five different colors. It would be more dimensions if the film wasn't there, I think the film is there because I think I can't somehow make my whatever, mind or something, do the dimensions and colors and especially the breeze-like flowing out into the thing yet -- not enough energy/balance.


It is not often you find a four arm Varahi or Vajrayogini, and it is only one time this is in conjunction with the characteristics we have been able to identify, including fire, the tongue, and milk. This may not be meaningful unless you are in the precarious position of knowing fully well there is some kind of mental and nervous link between the internal heat and electrical pressure and the milk or akash.

That's a very close match indeed. I'm not sure how to pay more attention than I am paying but it would behoove me to make sure I have all the detail about arms and things I can muster.

[Old Student]

It may mean "nose", since it is in a sequence with her mouth and tongue, but if so, would it not just say ghona?
Not sure I understand, "ghona" means nose or beak, doesn't it?

The characters at the bottom of the first picture, 金剛亥母 the first two are the standard word (jingang, literally gold hard), are the standard for "vajra" the last means "mother", the third means literally the 12th period of something (it is the last of the 12 Earthly Branches, used to tell time, along with the 12 Celestial Stems). It isn't a transliteration, so I wonder why Varahi has this name?


In the Vajrayogini's contents, there are Red and White Vajraghonas. Or, the whole text is available, and we could pick through it. This is similar to Sadhanamala, completed around the 1200s, including her six arm form from Krishna Yamari, and, her twelve-arm form from this 1300s Kagyu mandala:

The text looks interesting, what is the theory of combining winds and drops?

[shaberon]

If I understand correctly, the first virya is to develop armor -- the ability to withstand adversity and criticism, the second, the energy-as-practice, is the ability to take what one has learned beyond what has been taught. And the third is to develop bodhicitta to benefit all beings. The second is milk?


It is Milk in this one particular sadhana. Calling it Prayoga is like calling something Krama, any deity could do it, this is the Prayoga of a specific example which is not a normal practice--no japa and no vrata--it obtains siddhis directly from the devi. That almost certainly is the intent of Arthasiddhi which is most likely the same form, which is closer to the colored version in the ones shown previously. Varahis 220-224 appear to me to be "one circuit" since the first or Jvalamukhi carries the meaning of the last or Pig Face, which is not a contradiction, since the first title is really about a tongue. Comparatively, Jvalamukhi is not used as an invocation, name, or appear internally to the sadhana. It is more like characterizing the Prayoga as Jvalamukhi, whereas the deity herself is Bhavagavyai Arya Vajravarahyai in the invocative form.

I am not sure why Ekajati also has gavya.

Almost all sadhanas have one or multiple instances of "bhava" in some way, but, this is probably the only one where it is an invocation, and, more specifically, Bhavagavyai. You just blur by it because you think they have messed up "Bhagavatyai" but then if you give it some credence, we see what it means. It could be a misprint or I could be wrong, since the usual term for Milk is Ksira, but it has some air of intentionality.

Armor does have that unflinching aspect, a form of Upeksa, but it is also metaphysical and protects the chakras from the inherent sins of the Families or from external agents.

If you pursue the full Armor practice, you can be allowed to actually visualize the deities at their locations, but in the basic form, it is just their syllables. And so for those of us who can hardly visualize the tip of our own nose, we will not even be able to do this, but we probably can sort out the colors. I cannot even remember what Om Ah Hum really looks like, but I can remember the colors. And I can remember the sound of the syllables. Therefor I can make Armor work, and ever more so if I am able to learn the characters like Paramasva and Tara and so forth. For example, those are usually green when peaceful, but are purple or smoky-colored for Armor where they have "entire surface", or, "minor chakras and branch nerves" as wrathfuls.

It sounded like an Oracle to me. Jvalamukhi almost deceptively is not talking about "face", it is talking about Sati's Fiery Tongue in Himachal Pradesh. Maybe it is the same as Seven Agni Tongues. It is the gestation of some starry milkish stuff from the mind which begins to pervade all realms. At the same time, it is the use of full Pig Face Varahi.

Ghona literally is nose, but, it does not say, "she has a pig's snout", it just says vajraghona in the overall description of her face. If it said something like Ekamukham, trinetram, varahaghonam, then it would look like "pig's snout", but since it reads a little differently, and we have the comment from Krishna Yamari, then it probably does mean pig face as a whole.

Varahi's original "conversion" name was Vajramukhi, not Varahamukhi, making one wonder how you can have a vajra face, or, if perhaps that was the tongue like Jvalamukhi.

If Marici has all those piggies, it does suggest that her more expansive forms have really absorbed Arthasiddhi, has done Jvalamukhi Prayoga.






The new one is pulling down on something making spaghetti like pieces or pulling on threads, which displace the plane (that would be the bottom of the layer of milk) in a way as to connect it to the jeweled net. That kind of means that the milk is resting on a huge net made of fine colored threads.


That makes complete sense to me.

I believe the ideal is that the Hidden Chambers of the Heart must become awakened and luminous, so, when the connection goes through, the head or upper region is going to "listen" and respond to this, and some day if everything all matches up, then you are able to do the Transference which is able to move the heart bindu or citta out of the body through the crown, which as a deity practice would be similar with Jnana Dakini or Pitheshvari Tara. The alternatives are you are going to possess a living body, you are going to possess a dead body, or you are going to die. That is why I would learn the deity's way.

Either way is like a seventh dharma beyond the normal six of Completion Stage which is not exactly going to transfer the bindu because it is mainly going to invest the energy into the Usnisa and Sunya.

What goes on in the intervening time could perhaps be rather strange and unearthly.

I would guess that when she is able to weave five kinds of strands together, it will melt the Tathagatas, Vairocana, etc., and burn the Prajnas, Locana, etc., and the White Hum or Ham will then fall. This is sort of the result of leaving the brain and body an utter blank. It...could be a little weird.


Elizabeth English's Vajrayogini is mostly a review of the Twelve Arm Varahi. It is not helpful about Turtle Pose except to call it "Falling Turtle". While it is probably quite good for the details of that complex mandala, I am not sure she understands her subject:

The epithet "Vajravairocanl" probably arose because in the Cakrasamvara mandala Vajravarahi is assigned to the buddha family of Vairocana. I have found no clear directions as to the origins of the third epithet, vajravarnani.


I would say no, Dhyani Buddha Vairocana is not the same as Puranic Asura Vairocana, who is the brother or father of Vairocani, of the type who is markedly described in Durga Suktam. The Samvarodaya helps us by explaining she is within the body of Varuni. This is really specific because it is the "root of all the tantras", meaning as physiological changes.

Varnani is very obscure, but, we are able to find one article that is individually about her.

She asks a lot of the right questions, but did not manage to connect those. If not helpful about "turtle", she does say:

In conclusion, our survey of the Vajrayogini tradition in this chapter has revealed the general unity of the cult: Its mantras are relatively stable, and most forms of the goddess receive the generic labeling "Vajrayogini." However, it has also indicated the existence of separate currents within the tradition, based on its historical roots and the influence of separate teachers. The two main streams in the tradition center on the goddesses Vajravarahi and Vajrayogini, and it is perhaps unsurprising that some forms in the Guhyasamayasadhanamala have been seen to draw on both these traditions. Thus, the raised-foot-pose goddesses manifest as a form of white Vajrayogini and as a form of red Vajravarahi; the same is true of Vilasini, who in one manifestation is related to Vajravarahi and in another to the Vidyadhari Vajrayogini; and both traditions are found to merge in the practice of the turtle-stance Vajrayogini.


It is hard to say what "both" are and how they "merge". She probably means the sadhana was recorded at a later date. We are just saying Vairocani is a definitive arc in a disciple's energetic development.

Where the translators are better than me is in the narration and general language. The GSS Kurmapadi is not exactly the same as in Rinjung Gyatsa. It is noteworthy because it is not a self-generation, it is front-facing like a Yoga deity.

It is unusual because you use an image of any form of Vajrayogini. You do it naked on a hilltop at midnight and visualize her arising from a Hexagram. You gaze upwards and make Bali Offerings. Eventually you mantra her, mirror her pose and embrace her and want her to be your wife. As one persists in the practice, she will "empower" you. This is the word the translators chose; if correct, that would also have a specific meaning in ritualism.

Well, Embrace is only the third level of tantra. Unless something says Union, I can always argue it is an embrace. You can do that naked.

Intuitively, it is not that weird to ask her to be your wife if you are female, since it is about Occult Marriage, Manas to Buddhi.

There is a toned-down version of this form, or, her white form is in Union with Heruka, in other words it is Heruka Yoga, the sought-for energetic state to make the Seven Syllable mantra work properly. Around that point, Vairocani emits other Vajrayoginis or Varahis or Cinnamasta. So it is all in, through, or via her. Looking at Sadhanamala, she "frames" the whole Varahi section, alpha and omega. At first she is Maitri's Varahi replete with a full mandala and so forth, and then at the end she is brief and simple, and neither one give her color or say anything about turtles. The basic one is not turtle, but:

pratyālīḍhena satāṇḍavāṃ

Warrior pose with tandava. Maitri's seems to be flat-footed.

The closest to "color" is "fire at the end of time", such as pralaya anala sannibham. I am not sure if that is a specific color, like Puranic Vairocani just glows with agni jvalantim. Well, it actually looks like Maitri's Varahi is Dadima Kusuma Prakhyam: Pomegranate Flower (visibly, clearly).

https://www.floraqueen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/shutterstock_424961713.jpg



It is occasionally orange, rarely pink, and may have a white edge.





When we look at the activities of winds and drops, the central authority may be Vajra Rosary. I am not yet sure what Vahrahi may have said.

[Old Student]

You just blur by it because you think they have messed up "Bhagavatyai" but then if you give it some credence, we see what it means. It could be a misprint or I could be wrong, since the usual term for Milk is Ksira, but it has some air of intentionality.

Gavya has a more specific meaning as being cow's milk as opposed to any other kind?


That makes complete sense to me.

I believe the ideal is that the Hidden Chambers of the Heart must become awakened and luminous, so, when the connection goes through, the head or upper region is going to "listen" and respond to this, and some day if everything all matches up, then you are able to do the Transference which is able to move the heart bindu or citta out of the body through the crown, which as a deity practice would be similar with Jnana Dakini or Pitheshvari Tara. The alternatives are you are going to possess a living body, you are going to possess a dead body, or you are going to die. That is why I would learn the deity's way.

Either way is like a seventh dharma beyond the normal six of Completion Stage which is not exactly going to transfer the bindu because it is mainly going to invest the energy into the Usnisa and Sunya.

What goes on in the intervening time could perhaps be rather strange and unearthly.

I would guess that when she is able to weave five kinds of strands together, it will melt the Tathagatas, Vairocana, etc., and burn the Prajnas, Locana, etc., and the White Hum or Ham will then fall. This is sort of the result of leaving the brain and body an utter blank. It...could be a little weird.

It's possible that the heart will be the last to happen, I have not much detail at my heart, and have more at other places. As for moving out through the head, that's already been shown as a goal, although like you said, it could take a number of forms, including dying.

Last night I did have the pieces connected, but with a "shield" in place -- grey in one eye and black in the other. The grey was for my okay eye, I'm apparently not ready, or it is not a good order, to see the joining yet. The black was specifically to protect the eye with the injury from harm, I could feel it bathing that eye in fluids copiously while things were happening.

So I "saw" the connected version with a "being" sense instead of a visual one, the same sense that feels of being a breeze. The ocean of milk is "layered", or fivefold, I've seen it sequenced in time or space, I've seen it as layers, and I've "being"'d it as five orthogonal oceans of milk. They are paired with five "interpenetration infinities" -- five complete infinite interpenetration worlds which are the jewel interior. I've told you before about seeing into the jewel, this is like there was a five-fold jewel that matched the five-fold ocean of milk. They are the five colors in color, even though I've only "being"'d them and not seen them because of the protection grey. They feel like one might if one meditated on the thangkas of the five wisdom buddhas in their five worlds, and then "arose" as the whole mandala somehow without a need for directions because there were enough dimensions for all of it to be one thing.

Just the awesomeness of that much infinity is why I can understand that I'm not ready to see it, in one "distraction" I did dance at the nexus of it as the tan dancer/rainbow dancer shivshakti thing.

I'm not sure how big it is, the birds were singing at the bird feeder outside the window and it seemed like it was inside of my body. That may seem like a strange thing if it was infinite to wonder how far out from my body it goes, but as a geometer I'm very comfortable with infinities in finite spaces.

I think, but don't know, that the next transition if I ever finish this one is to add my head. I can easily process what you said about the threads eventually having to go to my heart, they point that way when she pulls them. But I may have a long way to go, if ever, before I get there. The "being" feeling feels like seeping away through my skin into the room or into whatever is being "sensed" and although it isn't unpleasant -- it actually feels good, even while it feels like I'm decaying and ceasing to exist -- it is so incredibly weird feeling that it almost automatically starts up all sorts of chatter in my mind and that destroys it. So each increment of progress is a lot more stillness in my listening and it gets very quickly to my current limits of my abilities.

[shaberon]

Gavya has a more specific meaning as being cow's milk as opposed to any other kind?



Hard to be sure. I have tried to scan the piece as to any indication how or why milk is involved, and, so far, it is a riddle.

Some of the rest of your reply is why I cannot say much about Citta Chakra or Bull's Hoof or Heart Chakra. We are saying it is the right way to experience Dharma Kaya. Mainly it is the seat of Vajra Family. That is how Vajradhara is a hypostasis from Vajra Family, he is the full explanation, of "this". And so we have a lot to say about navigating around, and towards this thing, in terms of the subtle body, but at some point, it is inexpressible.

Syllables on the Eyes is one way of doing the last step before Entering the Mandala. The eye syllables are mundane terrestrial vision, or, Chhaya Samjna, and vajra ignorance, and then they are removed like a blindfold.

And so not a whole lot is said about Citta Cakra, somewhat reverently I think, but the Four Dakinis will help us there. It is Vajra Family, and so a great deal of the tantras are Akshobya centered, which usually means that Vairocana has been displaced to the East into the Earth Element. And so it would be likely in this view that Vairocani is in his family. The tantras mainly use a Vajra Family male with a Vairocana female, in union, which is counted as "one central deity". In the cases where this is Vajravarahi, then Vairocana Family would make sense because occupying Earth Element.


I was mistaken and jvalamukhi does come up in her dharani; some of it is fairly normal, and it characterizes her form:

prāṇān kiṅkiṇi kiṅkiṇi khekhiṇi khekhiṇi
dhuna dhuna vajrahaste śoṣaya śoṣaya khaṭvāṅgakapālaśāriṇi

[she holds a vajra, staff, and skull, and perhaps is similar to Kakini or Khakini; this however would tend to describe two arms, since she holds the staff inside her elbow]

mahāpiśitamāṃsāsani manuṣyāntraprāvṛte sārdranaraśiro-
mālāgrathitadhāriṇi sumbhanisumbhe hana hana prāṇān

[here, Sumbha Nisumbha is one word, which has a Puranic meaning, and is used in Chakrasamvara tantra]

sarvvapāpasattvānāṃ sarvvapaśūnāṃ māṃsacchedani krodhamūrtte
daṃṣṭrākarālini mahāmudre śrīherukadevasya agramahiṣi

[she is wrathful and has Mahamudra with Heruka]

sahasraśire sahasrabahvae śatasahasrānane jvalitatejase
jvālāmukhi piṅgalalocane vajraśarīre vajrāsane

[vajra sarira would mean subtle body]

So there is tremendous fieriness, then jvalamukhi right before Fierce Eyes, Subtle Body, and what would suggest Vajra Asana or meditative pose. It does not really answer the question if this is a tongue, a face, or a pig face.

That part ends, but it gets back around to:

siṃharūpe khaḥ gajarūpe gaḥ trailokyodare mahāsamudra-
mekhale grasa grasa phaṭ vīrādvaite

There is eventually a lion related to Kha, and an Elephant related to Gah, which sounds like Ganesh. Mekhala is standardly a "girdle", hers, somehow, is Mahasamudra or Great Ocean. That is the only thing like itself in the book. Pancha Raksa 206 has the clearest use of milk as dadhi ksira or curds and milk.

Whether the "gavya" clue is perhaps relevant to "this" oceanic girdle is not mentioned. But since it does call her Paramasiddha Mahavidya Ishvari then it means it is a mahavidya, or a goddess wisdom or prajna wrapped up in the sound of it.

It is not clear whether this really is the Arthasiddhi form of 224. It does say it is related to the Mahamaya Jvalamukhi Prayoga and Cemetery Mahamaya Varahis.


If the white milk is diaphonously layered, that makes sense, i. e. initially responding to Sound or to what may appear to be silent sound.

Yes, when the weird feeling builds resistant chatter, that is one of the things we are trying to navigate, and/or what is meant by blending mantra and wind in the central channel. That is what is mean by Vishodani or purifying the principles so that dualized reaction does not take place. That mostly means the Cemeteries.

It is difficult not to react to the barrage of weird phenomena that may arise, but, it reaches a height where it is like all of those switches are polarized, and something else happens.

[shaberon]

I was looking for a pattern of the forty-six Vajravarahis of the Guyhasamajasadhanamala (GSS).

It is not terribly difficult, there are only a few kinds.



In full assemblies, Vajravarahi is distinguished from Matrika Varahi. But Vajravarahi is Vajrayogini, or is "a" vajrayogini. Nothing about hog's face or a secondary ghona has been revealed; Ms. English found "in an early yogini text" that Pramoha is Boar Face, and that Marici 141 is a simple Akosakanta, however:

bhagavatīṃ pītavarṇāṃ dvibhujāṃ ekamukhāṃ vairocanopaśobhita-
śirobhāgāṃ ratnamukuṭinīṃ devīpyamānāṃ kanakavarṇāṃ
śūkararūpāṃ

She is related to Vairocana in some complex way, but is crowned by Ratna--and then after being golden-colored, her form or body is that of a sukara or hog.

We do, of course, have the record where Pramoha functions as a Gauri, and we get that Marici has a much more explicit display of pig features, and that the name Vajravarahi does not necessarily require one.

The biggest form appears to be the main subject of her book. The Twelve arm Vajravarahi uses her Thirty-seven point mandala, but adds four Prajnas, who are the central figures of the four sub-lotuses, which array the twenty-four Pitha yoginis. The central lotus contains the Four Dakinis in theriocephalic form:

Dakini (on the eastern petal) has a lion's face, Lama (north) the face of a hog, Khandaroha (west), that of an elephant, and RupinI (south), that of a horse.

This mandala seems to use Completion Stage in a fairly full form.


Vermillion--sindura powder, bandhuka, and China rose are attempts to express similar hues of bright red.

She mentions two Six arm forms extracted from Abhidanottara Tantra:

"Red Vajravarahl" of the Raktavajravarahlsadhana (GSS6) Reverses Chakrasamvara and has a unique retinue and is erotic.

Thirteenfold Vajradakini Vajravarahi (Trayodasatmikavajradakinivajra- varahisadhana GSS16) is the thirteen syllables of the Heart Mantra, i. e. she is Vairocani, surrounded by another unique retinue, The names of these dakinis reflect their mantric origins, thus the syllable om gives rise to Pranavavajradakini (pranava = om), the syllable vam, to Vadavavajradakini, the syllable jam to Jramitavajradakini, and so on.

Two White Vajravarahis are the only Akshobya types, White Vajraghona and Aryasukhavajravarahisadhana GSS38, which she says Sadhanamala 218 is a fuller explanation with only a few minor changes--GSS38 still has Vairocani's mantra.

Most of the rest of the sadhanas are two and four arm versions which are or are very close to the ones in Sadhanamala, and eventually Cinnamasta, for whom she prefers the name Trikaya Vajrayogini.

The main other aspect presented is Vilasini. When we look into this, it is specific things about Dharmadhatu Vajra, the centering of Ratna Family, and what appears should properly be called Padma Jalini or Lotus Net.

And so although the primary Vajravarahi is frequently in Vairocana Family, she does have Vajra and Ratna emanations, shown for example in one of the Vajravali four mandala sets. She may have all families, but, these three are more important. Lotus Family has Guhyajnana who is also related to Vilasini, which must be tied closely, since Guhyajnana also has the Four Dakinis. I am not sure how to hint at an Amoghasiddhi Vajravarahi, since the symbolism seems to indicate that once you start to "get" him, there is Vajrashrnkala who will Chain you to Hevajra Tantra; she becomes an additional consort to the central male along with Vajravarahi.



And so even though there are links and comparisons to NSP and Sadhanamala, it does not shake the view that a major basis of the way it works is that the immanent deity Vairocani refers to the development of Tapas. This would mean about the same thing in any Yoga school, and then this is like scrubbing any other way of doing it, and defining Vairocani as that pivot. If there is no pivotal fiery force, there is no Vairocani, which is why it is useless to attempt her as an invocation. When she is there, you handle her. That is when she is useful as a basic sadhana, and then has a few ways of expanding into a mandala, entering union, or, appearing as a possibly unique type of bride.

Sadhanamala 225 is Varnani, who, perhaps, most directly, is Inverted Stupa goddess, since that is how she begins. She is a simple two arm red form with the Four Dakinis; and this is about all she does.

I am highly convinced that it is not that useful to us to have a massive Cinnamasta or Chod rite available to us and attempt to copy it. Instead, I think if we look at who and why the two Cinnamasta attendants come to be, that is very useful. At the most basic, they still pertain to the general Yoga nerves Ida and Pingala when placed in Tapas, but then harnesses them in a rather specific way, by looking at the things that are exclusively called Vairocani (a few) or Varnani (one).

[Old Student]

Hard to be sure. I have tried to scan the piece as to any indication how or why milk is involved, and, so far, it is a riddle.

If one wanted to, bhavagavyai could credibly be translated as, "born of a cow", but it doesn't make sense if she has a pig face, so it maybe isn't.


If the white milk is diaphonously layered, that makes sense, i. e. initially responding to Sound or to what may appear to be silent sound.

Yes, when the weird feeling builds resistant chatter, that is one of the things we are trying to navigate, and/or what is meant by blending mantra and wind in the central channel. That is what is mean by Vishodani or purifying the principles so that dualized reaction does not take place. That mostly means the Cemeteries.

It is difficult not to react to the barrage of weird phenomena that may arise, but, it reaches a height where it is like all of those switches are polarized, and something else happens.

The milk is not close to where the sounds are (sometimes) produced, the milk is above my palate, the sounds are in an opening that starts with the back of my pharynx in my mouth and literally can still be felt below my clavicle. There seems to be one sound for each place between those, rising in pitch as one moves up from my chest. I had long ago done some experimenting with the binaural beats videos on YouTube, there is a progression of notes from very low to moderately high that cause a buzzing in the various chakras when one listens to them, the low corresponding to the muladhara. They are the same notes, only far less fancy and less probably pleasing to the ear.

I am apparently spending hours per night working on my neck and throat, some of it after having been arranged and then made to sleep. It is in part how my eye got injured, it was straining somehow and stressed the retina. The work there is all about doing things with my neck, when combined with other things (techniques, actually) for my body. Short of really being able to fully see the big thing in all its splendor, it seems possible to do things, explore.

[shaberon]

The milk is not close to where the sounds are (sometimes) produced

So I think it is more responsive to Unstruck Sound--Anahata, which regulates the Heart.

This means the sound is "not produced" by anything, it is self-arisen or swayambhu.

Here is a blend of insanity and how there is such a thing. For a few years, myself and another regularly slept together, and we discovered a set of nocturnal noises mixed with racy, pounding hearts. Some of the stuff we heard was actual things, like a newer kind of helicopter that doesn't really "chop", but "fans", and there was sound from just air pressure itself before the "whoosh" of the thing. Another was a train. There were no tracks for twenty miles, so, we could not figure that one out. Then there was a "refrigerator", except I could not find it. Sounded like it was in every room evenly. I looked outside. It was anywhere, everywhere, and nowhere.

Now, the previous mechanical and/or biological defect noises have ceased, and, the refrigerator is definitely in the ceiling, except it is more musical, like a celestrum or something. I consider it a form of Primordial Sound that never really leaves me, at least when things are quiet. Unlike the previous ones, it is calming and abiding.

A "cow" would usually be Kamadhenu or Gomata, which I suppose is another important Puranic legend, and conveyed in Buddhist sadhanas of Ila or Gopali Vasudhara. It makes most of the contributions to a Homa: ghee for the lamps, milk/curds/yogurt for Vasudhara, and something called Five Products of the Cow which are multiple Gomata I believe.

Milk in the higher or more etherealized sense is Varuni, whereas Curds, which would usually be something you literally make and use, are like the maturation of milk-born subtle consciousness, and they can be thought of this way visually or symbolicly if you do not really have them.

If bhavagavyai was "born of milk", it would make sense as coming in or through Varuni or Vasudhara or both. I think it will still make sense as "appearance of milk in the mind, which starts to pervade all realms". They are kind of the same thing, one more intentional and specific, the other broad and generic, or Buddhist deities and mantras take control of the same latent power that could be sensed by anyone.


Dhyani Buddha Vairocana is not Asura Vairocana because he is more like Brahma, so, moving him to the Earth Element is close to saying the earth plane is ruled by full awareness of its operational substratum, which is also the throat nexus or jewel, at least at first.

Because his Family is Ignorance and Pramoha is The Deluder, this very early name for pig face is clear.

Concerning Varnani, she is not a pig face, but is a Raised Foot, however she is not called Maitri Dakini. I may have been confused, that one raised foor is an "extreme dance", whereas Maitri's manages to pick up her second foot, which is Flight. There may be that difference; I have been calling them the same thing. Obviously, we already found a white one which is an Indra Dakini, with only one raised foot. Varnani does have the characteristic:

kalpavahnimahātejāṃ sravantīṃ rudhirapriyām //

(expression for fire at the end of an eon)--flowing like a river--(Blood or Mars) (beloved or betrothed)

Her relation to Oddiyana Vajra Pitha is Vinirgata, something like "hails from, or one whose family is from".

Like Picuva Marici, none of the academics have been able to figure out Varnani, she has been related to colors, letters, or a twist on Varunani, but in actuality she is one brief lesson which is capable of porting the whole Oddiyana family--and then you find the exact same thing used with Lightning Ekajati who reciprocally spawns a similar Red Vajrayogini.

She manifests the entire Inverted Stupa up to Mt. Sumeru, but does not have a mandala, other than Four Dakinis retinue. I would say that she must be the detailed, step-by-step explanation and experience of what this is about, since it is mostly shucked, glossed, or taken for granted in most other sadhanas, If you get a big Cinnamasta ritual, it will do this at least once, which is why none of it is any good without matching the Yoga process to the components.

If you already have forms of inner bliss, Kurukulla, etc., then you must be at least halfway up the scale of it. I suppose it begins with an interest in Samadhi, and moves through Varuni into Vairocani, until something like White Vairocani signifies that it is Complete and you may adjoin the Stupa of a deity and/or the Completion Stage will work.

My guess is the Arthasiddhi or Jvalamukhi is a bit more powerful, and I am not sure what else to add, she may well be the intersection of a Fire Tongue with the Ocean of Milk, which is probably more startling and vivid than things I have experienced. If Vairocani emits a Pig Face Varahi, she would be it.

[Old Student]

Now, the previous mechanical and/or biological defect noises have ceased, and, the refrigerator is definitely in the ceiling, except it is more musical, like a celestrum or something. I consider it a form of Primordial Sound that never really leaves me, at least when things are quiet. Unlike the previous ones, it is calming and abiding.

Okay, so there is a humming-fast shaking that I described to you that appears as bliss at the cellular level, and would be like that hum. The reason I know it is at about 7 Hz or so is because I had clocked it meticulously because I thought initially it was pathological. The sounds in my throat are actually vocalized -- and as I said are from deep in my chest to my mouth and vary because of that depth. I would suppose, though I don't actually know, that the low ones are some form of "throat-singing". If I were able to reproduce the muscular actions that make them when I wasn't shaking, I'm sure they would be recordable and might even sound like when monks throat-sing mantras.

I have tons of things I can only do when shaking -- the eye injury was from straining muscles I have only marginal control over usually, at least in the pattern used. A lot of times it is the latter -- intercostals and subcostals are usually used in a coordinated pattern for breathing. During shaking, I make other patterns with them. So technically they're voluntary, but the pattern itself is not something that is usually voluntary. I can make some of the throat-singing noises not shaking, but the deepest one, which is literally down just above my heart physically, only happens shaking.



Dhyani Buddha Vairocana is not Asura Vairocana because he is more like Brahma, so, moving him to the Earth Element is close to saying the earth plane is ruled by full awareness of its operational substratum, which is also the throat nexus or jewel, at least at first.

As to Dhyani Buddha Vairocana, I have read, but do not remember the details, that moving from sect to sect in Tibetan Buddhism the two buddhas, Vairocana (as Mahavairocana) and Samantabhadra are interchanged as the primordial one. Is this true? Reason for saying is that Samantabhadri and consort are at my throat. If it's a naming thing, then some of what you've written is a lot easier to paste into place in that part of my anatomy.


kalpavahnimahātejāṃ sravantīṃ rudhirapriyām //

(expression for fire at the end of an eon)--flowing like a river--(Blood or Mars) (beloved or betrothed)


Lover of blood, blood drinker, or even cannibal can sometimes just mean a group of people (Tibetans and Yenisei Kyrgyz come to mind) who practice sky burial.


If you already have forms of inner bliss, Kurukulla, etc., then you must be at least halfway up the scale of it. I suppose it begins with an interest in Samadhi, and moves through Varuni into Vairocani, until something like White Vairocani signifies that it is Complete and you may adjoin the Stupa of a deity and/or the Completion Stage will work.

My guess is the Arthasiddhi or Jvalamukhi is a bit more powerful, and I am not sure what else to add, she may well be the intersection of a Fire Tongue with the Ocean of Milk, which is probably more startling and vivid than things I have experienced. If Vairocani emits a Pig Face Varahi, she would be it.

Interesting. Jvalamukhi is apparently also used either for volcano or "erupting". Which kind of describes Chhinnamasta's neck, as well. The root of my tongue during recent shakings is definitely full of energy, it has not reached that level of intensity yet, though.

[shaberon]

As to Dhyani Buddha Vairocana, I have read, but do not remember the details, that moving from sect to sect in Tibetan Buddhism the two buddhas, Vairocana (as Mahavairocana) and Samantabhadra are interchanged as the primordial one. Is this true? Reason for saying is that Samantabhadri and consort are at my throat. If it's a naming thing, then some of what you've written is a lot easier to paste into place in that part of my anatomy.




There seem to be two strands of interpretation, one of which seems to say that Samantabhadra is in Vajrasattva Family. But there is another that equates him to Vairocana Family, which is what I believe bears out in Hodgson's original Nepalese schemata that went up to nine families. In parallel that would equate Samantabhadri to Akasa Dhatvishvari or of same family.


Apparently, aside from missing a couple of helpful points, Vajrayogini text does explain that her practice order should be:

In the first stage, Vairocani ten and thirteen syllable version

In the second stage, Varnani with retinue:

Dakini (east) is blue-black, Lama (north) is green, Khandaroha (west) is red, and Rupini (south) is yellow. The iconography of the arms is shown in the delightful red dakini from Khara Khoto (plate 2).

(Bhaga, Mahasukha Chakra, or Jnana Chakra)

§11 The four goddesses are presided over by the buddha Ratnasambhava, bearing him as the seal in their crown. Between them, on the intermedi- ate petals, are four skull bowls that contain semen (bodhicittam). In simi- lar texts, other impure substances are mentioned inside the skull bowls, such as menstrual blood, or the five nectars and five lamps (see below), all of which are transformed into an elixir like quicksilver. The bowls them- selves are pure white ("like a conch, jasmine, or moon") and may be visu- alized balancing elegantly on top of ornamental vases.

Then eight wrathful animal-headed deities of Amoghasiddhi Family are added in the second half of that stage.

The final part is Thirty-seven point with the Pithas.

She simply lacked the resource to say there is an individual Varnani and what it means, or where Vairocani came from. But because she understands all the language, she is able to state that it really says this format which heretofor had simply been suggested by the structure of the ritual itself.

So if we look at Varnani fairly, she has the full Inverted Stupa and a retinue who is able to display "quicksilver", this symbolizes the whole Suksma Yoga. A whole stage is dedicated to her in five-fold form.

What we have said is that Guhyajnana Dakini is a parallel equivalent to this five-fold, and that Ziro Bhusana is that Vajrayogini who is "over" the whole five, she is not Amoghasiddhi spawning a ring of Tramen, she is not designated to bundle all the additional material. She, perhaps, releases endless dakinis like Marici releases endless boar faces.

That turns out to be interesting that it does make a defined "box" of building the components much as we have described. I I...feel I do not really know Vajravarahi or hold her lineage, I can say I understand Vairocani and Varnani in complete and perfect detail. Well, that was perhaps a bit grandiose, but they really are a fact in nature which is Noumenal. The additional touches, such as Offerings and Armor, I am simply learning.

I hope that makes sense, why it is a certain type of "boundary" area. There is no such thing as Vajrayogini for the ordinary human being. There is, potentially, such a thing as Vairocani. Then by the time you add Varnani there is almost everything we can talk about in Yoga.

[Old Student]

Very interesting. And she is called Varnani interchangeably with Varuni? Varnani more than the other name seems like she is primordially 'color'.


There seem to be two strands of interpretation, one of which seems to say that Samantabhadra is in Vajrasattva Family. But there is another that equates him to Vairocana Family, which is what I believe bears out in Hodgson's original Nepalese schemata that went up to nine families. In parallel that would equate Samantabhadri to Akasa Dhatvishvari or of same family.

Meaning Akasadhatu ishvari - queen of the realm of space? This works very well for me.


She, perhaps, releases endless dakinis like Marici releases endless boar faces.

That turns out to be interesting that it does make a defined "box" of building the components much as we have described. I I...feel I do not really know Vajravarahi or hold her lineage, I can say I understand Vairocani and Varnani in complete and perfect detail. Well, that was perhaps a bit grandiose, but they really are a fact in nature which is Noumenal. The additional touches, such as Offerings and Armor, I am simply learning.

I hope that makes sense, why it is a certain type of "boundary" area. There is no such thing as Vajrayogini for the ordinary human being. There is, potentially, such a thing as Vairocani. Then by the time you add Varnani there is almost everything we can talk about in Yoga.

Yes, it makes sense. As for no Vajrayogini for the ordinary human being I can assert that I hardly ever see her in my shaking. I saw her once in the very beginning, as everybody was "introducing" themselves, and a couple of other times, usually suddenly, and then gone again. Unlike the others, I do not feel like she was engaged in the trainings.

[shaberon]

Trying to squeeze more from the Vajrayogini notes and appendices.

It is stated there are only six Vajravarahi texts in the Tibetan canon, two of these being Cinnamasta. So it is considerably less of a guide than these "peripheral" sources.

On the primacy of Dakini Jala:

A brief summary of this tantra, or a version of it, appears in a Chinese text trans- lated by Amoghavajra, sometime between 746 c.e. and 774 c.e.

So, again, it is "the" Chakrasamvara, or, main origin of all of these rites.

She does a pretty good job at matching up various practices from here and there, she just has not quite cemented the basic meanings of Vairocani and Varnani, or for that matter, Mahamaya, who is a sex-changed Lakshmi, or about Jvalamukhi, who is famous. She has mostly good information, which, if tied a little tighter to how these are yogic states rather than arbitrary praises, could possibly liberate a world system.

In Sadhanamala, 217 is a highly-developed Maitri Dakini--Vairocani. She does not review 217 or 227 much, but, includes the statement:

The main sources in the Sadhanamala are: SM217 Vajravarahisadhana^GSSy, cf. GSS31.

Ms. English looks more at how its next group is a "bloc":

GSS38 Aryasuklavajravarahisadhana (Sadhana of Noble White Vajravarahi)

After a namaskara verse, the text describes the preliminary worship and emptiness meditations, a series of awakenings from a white, five-pointed vajra produced from hrih, and the self-generation of white, two-armed Vajravarahi in alidha stance. The awakenings, yogic recitation of a mantramala, and rites are those associated with the (white?) Vajraghona manifestation described in GSS5, the Abhisamayamanjari (GSS5 Sed pp. 150-51, K35n-35vi). A much fuller sadhana centering on this white form of Vajravarahi and her associated rites, is found in the Prajnalokasadhana by Konkadatta (SM218), with some overlapping text, especially in the rit- ual portions. The brief reference to the rite of subordination (preceded by a rite of tasting nectar) with which GSS38 ends is also found in the Abhisamayamanjari (GSS K35VI-6), and this is described much more fully in SM219, probably ending with the final line listed as SM220. The GSS texts in fact demonstrate that SM218-SM220 are continuous text; the colophons in the SM (perhaps editorial?) are misleading, and the opening lines in SM219 referring to the generation of the goddess in the sequence ' given previously" (p. 432: purvoktakramena nispannam bhagavatim) refers to the previous sadhana, SM218.


All of the Sadhanamala works appear in almost identical or similar form in the Guhyasamayasadhanamala. The one exception is the longest Vajravarahi Sadhana in the Sadhanamala (SM218, with SM219 and SM220), although this is still represented in the Guhyasamayasadhanamala in two sep- arate, but much shorter, versions (in GSS5 and GSS38).

SM218-220: SM218 Prajnalokasadhana by Koiikadatta with SM219 vasyavidhi given as "Vajravarahisadhana" and SM220 "vajravarahyai vas'yavidhih" (final line of preceding vasyavidhi with colophon)«GSS5 (K34V5-35V6, Sed p. 149) and GSS38 (see appendix entry to GSS38).



She also thinks that Jvalamukhi and Mahamaya are a "bloc":

SM221-223: Printed as three texts (though probably redacted from a single source) focusing on the (male) deity Mahamaya, but with the Vajravarahi root mantra. SM221 (colophon in one ms. only: jvalamukhisadhanaprayogah) opens with verses extolling the deity, followed by the Vajravarahi root mantra, identical (with a few variants) to GSS11 §32 and related texts. SM222 (colophon in one ms. only: mahamayajvalamukhivajravarahiprayogasadhanam) refers to the previous Vajravarahi root mantra, with instructions for its recita- tion and rites for siddhi. SM223 mahamayadevyah smasanam is a short para- graph giving an account of cremation grounds a little different from that in Vajravarahi materials.



In the missing portion of Sadhanamala, 232-238 are more Vajrayogini articles.

GSS has more practices with more details than may be in Sadhanamala, for example:

GSS40 opens with commentary upon the namaskara verse (GSSi: namah srivajrayoginyai sunyatakarunatmane. . .), which it interprets as an internal yogic meditation with drops based on the four consecrations in the Heva- jra system.

GSS42 Vajrayoginipranamaikavimsika (Stotra) (Twenty-One Praise Verses for Saluting Vajrayogini)^ A twenty-one-verse stotra (verses are numbered in the text) praising Vajrayogini: her embodiment of the four blisses, her compassion, her tran- scendent wisdom (in Yogacara terms), and her ability to manifest with many different forms, including as the supreme goddess in other religious systems (Sakti, Candi, "Vedavati," Kubjika, VaisnavatI, etc., according to the different religious systems).


GSS45 Indrajitkramavajrayoginisadhan (Vajrayoginl Sadhana with the Method for Conquering Indra) This is very similar to GSSiy (see above) and prescribes the generation of a white, raised-foot-pose form of Vajrayoginl.


Maitri did not personally compose his famous rituals:

According to the material on Maitri Khecari (in dPalldan sa skyapa'i lugs naro mkha' spyod ma'i skor vol. 6, p. 203), he received it from one Dar ma Yon ten, a disciple of Sum pa Lo tsa wa.

Marici is one of the few to do this, but, there is a similar large Varahi becoming a Sanmukhi:

This chapter of the Abhidhanottaratantra also prescribes an optional six-faced, twelve-armed form, with a hog's (varaha-) face on top.


White and/or Hogfaced Varahis are sometimes in Vajra Family:

Vajravarahi also appears in the Aksobhya family in the long sadhana by Kumaracandra, while Vairocana (the usual seal for Vajravarahi in our texts) pre- sides over Vajracarcika (Ratnavalipanjika'm KYT p. 127). Another white form of Vajravarahi is described in the sadhana as the consort to a manifestation of Krsnayamari called Dvesayamari/Vajrasattva {ibid: p. 124). She is like her con- sort, namely, white with three faces and six arms.


She recognizes what we might call the seventh practical principle:

The defiled mind (klistamanas) is the seventh category in the Yogacara's analy- sis of mind, by virtue of which one clings to the storehouse consciousness (alayah) as the self.

More broadly perhaps, it is duality, or Atma Drsti, or any view of a self distinguished from other selves.


We found that Mahacina Krama Tara has the trait of arising from a Kartri or Chopper; likewise, perhaps the symbol or name for Vajravarahi is that she often arises from a Vajra, although sometimes also a Kartri.

One version of Thirteen syllable Vairocani says:

A four-armed form of Vajrayogini in warrior stance is found in a single sadhana in the Guhyasamayasddhanamdld in a section dealing with inter- nalized practices: the Vajrayogini Sadhana in the Tradition ofIndrabhuti y by Vijayavajra {Indrabhutikramena Vajrayoginisddhana GSS35) . This sadhana takes the self-generation onto a more intensely internal level, as the yogin imagines the elements of the visualization within his yogic body.

Following the emptiness meditations, the yogin first generates the cos- mos, starting from a white letter a (GSS35 Kii8vi: sukla akarat) that is said* to have the nature of Causal Vajradhara. Then, from a green hum, he pro- duces a five-pointed double vajra, as the five limbs of his body (head, arms, and legs). In the center of that he sees a red inverted triangular syllable e (V) transforming into a blood-colored origin of existents (here masculine: dharmodayah) marked with vajras at its points, which he understands to be his torso. Within the dharmodaya is an eight-petaled lotus wreathed in fire, which represents his nine bodily orifices, while the four-petaled pericarp has the nature of four channels within the body. Vajrayogini is then gener- ated upon a ferociously bright sun disk, as the transformation of a white chopper that represents the central channel, Avadhuti. Vajrayogini herself is a vibrant, light red ("yellow- red, like blooming saffron").

So in that instance, white is the Avadhut. But if we say Vairocani is the first-arising and is often Yellow, it is this color which moves forward as the form of the final, central Vajrayogini and the Avadhut:

In the central portion of this [dharmodaya- triangle] is the syllable hrim, which is described as yellow in color, (v. 3) [Trikayavajrayogini] arises from it and is [also] yellow. She is by nature (svayam) situated in the avadhuti, but in lalana (Varnani) she is very dark, and in rasana (Vairocani) she has a white [color].


That is a continuous system based in the contemplation of the three main nerves, which are considered to be tied, blocked, and otherwise mangled at the Four Chakras. Vairocani somehow transfers her main color to the central goddess, and perhaps may remain yellow, but may often be white, when her role in the composite is activated. Then it is like you are walking around married to Yellow Vairocani, which goes through a transformative role in a rite that eventually removes her/your head.

The Three Nerves are the target of Vajra Muttering, particularly by the Three Syllables or Om Ah Hum. It is not that relevant to a beginning meditator. It is relevant if one gets some pieces of the Inverted Stupa working. At that point, Ziro Bhusana is particularly interesting. The subtle hints in the sadhanas equate the three to the Three Worlds, Kama, Rupa, and Arupa. Ziro Bhusana arguably mutters through all of these. She has a tentacle piercing every being's heart from which she drinks their life-blood and purifies the worlds. Others do it by their vajra or other weapon, but she is very explicit and graphic compared to anything else.

Overall, this Yoga system highly focuses on balancing three channels through four centers, before activating the Drops or Gauris.

[shaberon]

Very interesting. And she is called Varnani interchangeably with Varuni? Varnani more than the other name seems like she is primordially 'color'.


Meaning Akasadhatu ishvari - queen of the realm of space? This works very well for me.



I believe that name change is an erroneous convenience, or guesswork.

Varnani probably does lean closer to "color", how it is applied to layers or shapes, and has been confused with alterations of Varuni in attempts to figure out who or what she is.

The Samantabhadri you described previously seemed to fit the view of her in Vairocana Family, related to the Queen of (Bright) Space, Akasha Dhatvishvari. Vairocana "terms" all still emphasize solar or white light, i. e. Vairocani is closer to undifferentiated energy, something like "she who colors and shapes" to the Varnani who "is colored and shaped".

[shaberon]

In terms of the most basic Vairocanis, there is a pre-marital Kurmapadi, and Sadhanamala 227.

The one solo Varnani appears to be SM 225.

Between them is a "snap-fit" design, which adds Armor, and samaya to Vajradakini, in SM226, while combining Vairocani and Varnani.

This will make even more sense, if it is stated that Vairocani is the first stage and we can define it as intensity of Tapas, then what is a second stage and who is Varnani? Some stranger? Maybe, but she is part of the flow.

Ms. English refers to the same set of colored deity prints that on the art site is called Rinjung Lhantab, which same set is also used in the Tibetan Deities book, which she calls Lokesh Chandra (LC). And in going through the sequence, what we saw called Varnani was green. This is because:

"Vajravarnani" (rDo rje rab sngags ma) is seen as green, and painted in the I[cons] W[orthwhile to] S[ee] with a skull staff not given in the text or woodblock prints (IWS/T 82, LC 592, in which she is called "Vajrapranava").

IWS is more like the closest thing to the book's own title, since it combines three sadhana oceans.

So then if Varnani is Pranava, this makes sense, because she will arise from the major manifestation of Vairocani, which appears to be a full mandala expression of what goes into the "combined" SM 226. This is obscure, since we have to ask it about its mantric identity to be aware it is a Vairocani. It works because it is a reflex, i. e. an automated reaction, to the mantra, or particularly to its extended version. This is a copy of her material, which is a Completion Stage mandala, as if to say, the basic Vairocanis grow in one direction, which is this. It would be difficult to re-install the original Sanskrit, since she just gives portions sliced into footnotes, from which it can be seen this one is also red like pomegranate flower or Dadima Kusuma.



The other six-armed manifestation appears in the Sadhana of the Thirteenfold Vajradakini Vajravarahi

(Trayodasatmikavajradakinivajra- varahisadhana GSS16)

Here it seems that the armor goddess has developed into a "terrible leader, thirteenfold in nature." Following the preparations for the sadhana, Vajradakini Vajravarahi is self-generated from vam through the series of awakenings; she is self- visualized in a form that is both kapalika in character, and passionate.

She is seen adorned with all six mudras, a headdress, and a garland of wet skulls, blazing like the fire at the end of the eon, and trampling underfoot Bhairava and Kalaratri (named here Sambhu and Camunda). Her erotic nature is evident in her red color, her slim waist and firm breasts, and her fanged face, which is only "slightly snarling" (isaddamstrakaralinim). Her attributes are those of the armor goddess, except that she has only one face and substitutes a vajra (the usual attribute of warrior-stance Vajravarahi) for the chopper, and an ax for Brahma's head. The source for this sadhana is once again the Abhidhdnottaratantra.

Vajradakini Vajravarahi is said to be "thirteenfold" in nature because she is a reflex of the thirteen-syllabled heart mantra. The yogin first visualizes her as the syllable vam. He then emanates a thirteenfold mandala from the thirteen syllables of Vajravarahi's mantra: om va-jra-vai-ro-ca-nl-ye hum hum phat sva-ba. Having created the mandala in this way, he begins to generate the iconographic form of Vajravarahi through the five awaken- ings, with a vajra empowered by the syllable vam at her heart. Rays issue from this vam, and through them the surrounding syllables of the mandala are "urged" or "impelled" (K77 v.6: samcodita-) to transform into the dakinis of the mandala retinue. The names of these dakinis reflect their mantric origins, thus the syllable om gives rise to Pranavajradakini (pranava = om), the syllable vam, to Vadavavajradakini, the syllable jam to Jramitavajradakini, and so on (see fig. 9). The stages of this fairly complex sadhana, and the subsequent rituals, are summarized in the appendix.

The mandala retinue is described in some detail (GSS16 K78n-79r2). It begins first of all with the four dakinis who are installed counterclockwise on the petals of the central lotus. They are visualized with one face, four arms, three eyes, and wearing all the tantric ornaments. They stand upon corpses in the dancing ardhaparyanka pose, naked with loose hair, their bodies sensuous, "with full breasts, celestial forms, captivating, their faces [only] a little furrowed, [and] amorous with [their] sidelong glances." In their right hands, they hold a vajra and damaru, in their left, a staff and a bowl filled with blood. On the intermediate petals are ornamental vases topped with a skull bowl, which are filled with the nectars, including semen (bodhicittam), first menstrual blood (svayambhukusumam), urine (vajram- bu), and human feces (mahabhaisajam).

At the outer gates are eight more dakinis. In the cardinal directions (installed counterclockwise) four dakinis are visualized dancing upon a "lotus moon" (padmacandre) and declaring their transcendence of male deities of other religions by trampling the corpses of Indra, Yaksa (Kubera), Jala (Varuna), and Yama respectively. They hold the same attributes as the dakinis of the inner mandala, only substituting different implements for the damaru, such as a hook (in the east) or a noose (in the north); the text for the other attributes is corrupt (K78VI-2) . They wear the five mudras and are also three-eyed, slim-waisted, and adorned with garlands of heads. Their hair stands upright (urdhvakesa-) and they are described in erotic terms, as "naked, with huge vaginas, overcome with lust." At the corners of the outer mandala (installed clockwise) are four wrathful dakinis, also upon lotus moons and trampling corpses in the dancing pose. They are described in similar terms, both as kapalika deities and as goddesses with sensuous and erotic forms. All the vajra-dakinls of the mandala are said to have their hearts filled with innate bliss (sahajananda-).

Fig. 9. Mandala of Vajradakini Vajravarahi




Central pericarp

1. Six-armed Vajradakini Vajravarahi



Cardinal petals

2. Pranavavajradakini (white)

3. Vadavavajradakini (green)

4. Jramitavajradakini (yellow)

5. VairanivajradakinI (blue)



Outer mandala (gates)

6. Rosanivajradakini (blue)

7. Capalavajradakini (green)

8. Nlharlvajradakini (red)

9. YemalavajradakinI (yellow)


Outer mandala (corners)

10. Humkarivajradakini (white)

11. Humnadivajradakini (blue)

12. Phatanivajradakini (yellow)

13. SvakarivajradakinI (red)


[Varnani was red, then we said she is green, and is in here white. What is going on? She reverted into syllable Om. This is nothing new. But it is only so when Vajradakini is being arrayed.

Vajradakini is a "class" of dakinis, related to the crown center and Iccha--Samsara Skandha. At this point, they appear to be adding Sahajananda to their qualities.

Like the Usnisas are a "class" of deity, there you go, Fan of Knives--it is not a dakini in Vajra Family, and it is not a generic descriptor of Vajrayogini anything, Vajradakini is a specific Samaya made under Vairocani.


In her own summary of this sadhana, it is found that in GSS, sometimes Vajravarahi has an abode between two mountains, Manobhanga and Cittavisrama, in a place with abundant red flowers. Marici also does something like this, and when we looked into Asoka Grove, it goes back to Sita.]


The text opens with seven verses praising Vajravarahl and stating that the sadhana was taught by the lord in the Laksabhidhanatantra, on Mount Manobhanga/Cittavisrama. The visualization is of a six-armed warrior- stance Vajravarahl and her generation from the thirteen syllables of the Vajravarahl/Vajrayogini heart mantra. The sequence of the prescriptions in the text is as follows: preliminaries (« GSS3/GSS31) ending with a bodhi- sattva vow, armoring, circle of protection, temple palace (mahavimana) surrounded by cremation grounds (with a short description of the crema- tion grounds drawing on SUT), visualization of the thirteen-syllabled mantra as the thirteenfold mandala, the generation through awakenings of Vajravarahl in iconographic form surrounded by Vajradakinl goddesses produced from syllables, the worship of the goddesses with imaginary offer- ings, entry of knowledge deities, armoring, praise, and bodhisattva vow, sevenfold worship with the recitation of flower-offering mantras followed by another bodhisattva vow, emptiness mantras with nonabiding, the rep- etition of the installation of the circle of protection and the subsequent visualization of Vajravarahl produced suddenly with the mandala retinue placed on points on the body, worship, the tasting of nectar, external ball offerings, another bodhisattva vow, concluding verses possibly by Advayavajra, and dedication of merit.

This sadhana combines several important themes. In its preparatory stages, it describes the cremation grounds in detail, as well as prescribing the visualization of a palace (vimanah/m). The erotic overtones of the sadhana may be associated with the fact that the sadhana was supposedly taught by the Buddha in the location of Mount Manobhanga and the pavil- ion, Cittavis'rama, a place associated with erotic manifestations of Vajra- yogini. The structure of the sadhana is also unusual. The mandala is first produced through an externalization of the thirteen syllables of the deity's mantra. This is then intensified by its transformation from mantric to iconographic form. The emanation of the iconographic mandala is then repeated in a completion-stage practice, by self-generating it "all at once" (jhatiti), thus indicating the sadhaka's complete integration of the external forms within himself. Finally, the mantra syllables of which the dakini god- desses are representations are placed upon his body in a short body mandala, thus internalizing the mandala back into the body of the yogin. Every step in this process includes an armoring, and the sadhana therefore includes far more armor sections than is normal. This may be related to the fact that its central form of six-armed Vajradakinl- Vajravarahl seems to have emerged from the form of the armor goddess.


That practice is thought to combine Saraha and Maitri's styles. And so if we look at where "Vajravarahi mountains" originate, then she is correct that they do not have to be physical locations, but may be "adjectival":

Another sadhana describes how Saraha had been granted a sadhana by Lokesvara (the bodhisattva Avalokitesvara) that was guaranteed to bring about a vision of Vajrayogini within six months. After this time, however, Saraha had still had no vision, and despite redou- bling his efforts and practicing assiduously for twelve years, he failed to see her "even in a dream." He became disheartened and was about to lose faith in the buddhas and give up completely when the goddess finally appeared to him amid the mountainous peaks:

Then, in a flash, there was suddenly a direct vision of the god- dess adorned with color, arms, and so on to be described below.
[She appeared] between (madhye) the surpassingly captivating, most lovely mountains [called] Manobhanga (Destruction of the [Defiled] Mind) and Cittavisrama (Heart's Repose Resting-place of the Mind) ; [these] had five peaks of different colors, and were adorned with gardens in which nagakesara flowers were bloom- ing in colorful pools.

or: [She appeared] in the midst of the surpassingly captivating, most lovely mountains where the mind comes to rest because of the destruc- tion of the defiled mind.

It is not clear from this portion of text whether the yogin is to visualize a pair of mountains named Manobhanga and Cittavisrama, or whether the description is to be understood adjectivally as the mountain(s) "where the mind comes to rest (cittavisrama) because of the destruction of the [defiled] mind (manobhanga)!"


Manobhanga is also mentioned in the sadhana of Vajradakini Vajravarahi (GSS16), which claims the legendary authority of the Laksabhidhanatantra: "On Mount Manobhanga, which is the most essential [place] on earth, on
this peak [or: within this dwelling] (tasmin kute), in a pavilion (-mandape) that is the sole resting place of the mind (cittavisrdma-) for the great- minded, [is] the terrible... leader Vajravarahl." Although the verse does not mention the second mountain, Cittavis'rama, it suggests that on the mountain peak (kutam) there is also a pavilion (mandapahlm) that is the "resting place of the mind" (cittavisrdma-). A similar kind of beautiful dwelling is also the abode of Vidyadharl VajrayoginI (GSS21), who is to be seen "entering a jewel dwelling (kuta-) (i.e., hut) made of masses of [red flowers] — Mandarava, As'oka, and Red Coral." In all these texts, there is a slight ambiguity as to whether kuta means a "peak" (kutam) or a "dwelling" (kiltah) — a problem that a second scribe attempts to clarify in GSS21 by inserting the gloss, "hut" (grham). The same verdant mountain- ous setting, with its fragrant, flower-strewn abode, is also found in the Guhyavajravilasinisadhana. This sadhana describes how the yogic partners are to meet in a beautiful glade or garden that is full of jewels and red flow- ers and resonant of love (below with n. 179).


Do they have five huts, are they on Wu Tai Shan or Kanchenjunga, I am not sure, but if I take them as adjectives, then we see what eluded Saraha for twelve years. From him comes Arrow Dakini, Pitheshvari Tara, and what we might call Mahasiddha movement or increasing public knowledge and therefor more successful practitioners of such methids.

[Old Student]

SM221-223: Printed as three texts (though probably redacted from a single source) focusing on the (male) deity Mahamaya, but with the Vajravarahi root mantra. SM221 (colophon in one ms. only: jvalamukhisadhanaprayogah) opens with verses extolling the deity, followed by the Vajravarahi root mantra, identical (with a few variants) to GSS11 §32 and related texts. SM222 (colophon in one ms. only: mahamayajvalamukhivajravarahiprayogasadhanam) refers to the previous Vajravarahi root mantra, with instructions for its recita- tion and rites for siddhi. SM223 mahamayadevyah smasanam is a short para- graph giving an account of cremation grounds a little different from that in Vajravarahi materials.

Mahamaya changes gender depending on the emanation, isn't it? He is male or she is female depending on what he/she is doing and how he/she is arrayed (in terms of arms and weapons).


That is a continuous system based in the contemplation of the three main nerves, which are considered to be tied, blocked, and otherwise mangled at the Four Chakras. Vairocani somehow transfers her main color to the central goddess, and perhaps may remain yellow, but may often be white, when her role in the composite is activated. Then it is like you are walking around married to Yellow Vairocani, which goes through a transformative role in a rite that eventually removes her/your head.

That this is a way of rearranging and clearing and activating the channels makes a lot of sense. I do wonder, why from the chopper in particular? The chopper is in other translations and depictions characterized as a flaying knife, which asserts a connection with the charnel grounds. Is that assumed here as well?


The Three Nerves are the target of Vajra Muttering, particularly by the Three Syllables or Om Ah Hum. It is not that relevant to a beginning meditator. It is relevant if one gets some pieces of the Inverted Stupa working. At that point, Ziro Bhusana is particularly interesting. The subtle hints in the sadhanas equate the three to the Three Worlds, Kama, Rupa, and Arupa. Ziro Bhusana arguably mutters through all of these. She has a tentacle piercing every being's heart from which she drinks their life-blood and purifies the worlds. Others do it by their vajra or other weapon, but she is very explicit and graphic compared to anything else.

More on three worlds below. Question: Ziro Bhusana is embodied, but her name means both ornaments made from skulls and a head ornament (like a ritual helmet). Does she arise from the head ornament the way others arise from choppers or vajras above? If taken to mean the quality of her ornaments, are they thought of as being made from skulls or made from pieces of a kapala? If the latter, are the connections kapala normally has, to blood, liquids, nectar still part of the symbolism of the creation of her ornaments?

[Old Student]

I believe that name change is an erroneous convenience, or guesswork.

Varnani probably does lean closer to "color", how it is applied to layers or shapes, and has been confused with alterations of Varuni in attempts to figure out who or what she is.

The Samantabhadri you described previously seemed to fit the view of her in Vairocana Family, related to the Queen of (Bright) Space, Akasha Dhatvishvari. Vairocana "terms" all still emphasize solar or white light, i. e. Vairocani is closer to undifferentiated energy, something like "she who colors and shapes" to the Varnani who "is colored and shaped".

This makes sense. Last night, I apparently spent the whole night working on the cellular or corpuscular level bliss that feels like it is in every cell. It was fiery as usual, but it was dark blue in color. I was led through a process of creating an overwhelming amount of it and using it like the dissolving and decaying -- the term given this time was "decompose" into those cells. This was pushed up into the space in my throat -- the one where all the activity and Samantabhadri and consort and everything are -- and then to begin decomposing. Actually, they entrained the chattering part of my mind to repeat, "dissolve, decay, decompose", and worked me on doing all of them. They associated the dissolve with the jewel at my throat, which is interpenetration, the plane (where the milk is), and the area above, which is inhabited by the tan dancer/rainbow dancer shivshakti, which during all this became kind of a bright thing in a negative space, almost like a dancing shaped crack in the darkness.

At the end of all of that, which I can put up the notes for if you want, Mandarava called the three (dissolve, decay, decompose) "three jewels". Which I took to be a reference to the usual three jewels. They are respectively, wet, dust and windy, and fiery, but all are about ceasing and coming apart.

[Old Student]

om va-jra-vai-ro-ca-nl-ye hum hum phat sva-ba.

This is also (or closely related to) a mantra for Chhinnamasta?


Another sadhana describes how Saraha had been granted a sadhana by Lokesvara (the bodhisattva Avalokitesvara) that was guaranteed to bring about a vision of Vajrayogini within six months. After this time, however, Saraha had still had no vision, and despite redou- bling his efforts and practicing assiduously for twelve years, he failed to see her "even in a dream." He became disheartened and was about to lose faith in the buddhas and give up completely when the goddess finally appeared to him amid the mountainous peaks:

Then, in a flash, there was suddenly a direct vision of the god- dess adorned with color, ...

I have heard this story before from I think a different place. It is possible it's the same story repeated in multiple texts or that this is a common motif? I think the story is also told with Maitripa?


Do they have five huts, are they on Wu Tai Shan or Kanchenjunga, I am not sure, but if I take them as adjectives, then we see what eluded Saraha for twelve years.

1 The Five Great Mountains

1.1 Nature conservation
1.2 East Great Mountain: Tài Shān
1.3 West Great Mountain: Huà Shān
1.4 South Great Mountain: Héng Shān (Hunan)
1.5 North Great Mountain: Héng Shān (Shanxi)
1.6 Center Great Mountain: Sōng Shān

2 The Four Sacred Mountains of Buddhism

2.1 Wǔtái Shān
2.2 Éméi Shān
2.3 Jǐuhuá Shān
2.4 Pǔtuó Shān

3 The Four Sacred Mountains of Taoism

3.1 Wǔdāng Shān
3.2 Lónghŭ Shān
3.3 Qíyún Shān
3.4 Qīngchéng Shān

But I think it more likely that the five maybe have to do with the visualization? That they correspond to the emanating deities?

BTW, the form which I learned, and the standing I practice comes from Huashan. It is known for a Daoist sage who specialized in sleep/dream magic.

[shaberon]

First of all, I made an error, seeing that the sadhanas were attributed to Sahara I thought she was misspelling Saraha, but, it is "bad internet copy" for Sabara.

Shamsher Manuscript (https://books.google.com/books?id=t6z3DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA158&ots=SGRFJnjH7n&dq=manobhanga&pg=PA158#v=onepage&q=manobhanga&f=false) or Life of Advaya/Maitri (http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-BH/bh117517.htm), Tucci/Taranatha (https://archive.org/stream/tucci1930animadversionesindicae/TUCCI%20%281930%29%20Animadversiones%20Indicae_djvu.txt), all refer to Manobhanga and Sabara or lord of the forest dwellers, which makes sense because he is also part of the Vilasini practices.

Manasa Manobhanga (https://dokumen.tips/documents/mahalakshmi-slogam-english.html) is at the end of a long Mahalakshmi piece.

Something from the Puranas (http://www.mahapurana.com/temple-history/shri-kshetra-srikalahasti-the-miracles-of-sri-kalahastheeswara/) says, Long ago, in Kashmir, there lived a king, Yamadhwaja, who had Srinagara as his capital city on the slopes of Mt. Manobhanga. It is not necessarily in Kashmir, since Srinagara is Manipura, and it would be on the slopes of such a mountain since:

The way its meaning is relevant is in the basic terms Mind Breaker, which, here, compared to the Six Family Wheel, has gone beyond it, this is aimed specifically at the seventh principle or Klista Manas.





Mahamaya changes gender depending on the emanation, isn't it? He is male or she is female depending on what he/she is doing and how he/she is arrayed (in terms of arms and weapons).

Well, Mahamaya is also a kind of title and a kind of illusion magic which is the Yoga of Mahalakshmi. I believe it does have the understanding of this background, however, in the specific Mahamaya sadhanas in union with Buddhadakini, "she" is in male form.



I do wonder, why from the chopper in particular? The chopper is in other translations and depictions characterized as a flaying knife, which asserts a connection with the charnel grounds. Is that assumed here as well?

Ziro Bhusana is embodied, but her name means both ornaments made from skulls and a head ornament (like a ritual helmet). Does she arise from the head ornament the way others arise from choppers or vajras above? If taken to mean the quality of her ornaments, are they thought of as being made from skulls or made from pieces of a kapala? If the latter, are the connections kapala normally has, to blood, liquids, nectar still part of the symbolism of the creation of her ornaments?

Ziro Bhusana simply arises from Om at one's heart having emitted rays which extend through the universe performing the two benefits; the chopper is her primary item.

The skull garlands may be designated as "fresh or wet heads", or as skulls. Generally, fresh heads refers to attacking hindrances; skulls are void. This one is described as having bone ornaments and skulls. Her more noticeable feature is an elaborate pedestal which is supported by the Five Dakinis. One of her hands has the standard blood-filled kapala, from which she drinks; otherwise, the bones are just from fire and cemeteries.

It is my personal thought that if following how sadhanas unfold, "nectar tasting" is part of a process that is semi-mixed with Bali Offerings and requires weird processes of heating and pouring and various bowls--that I would use Ziro Bhusana for nectar taste, like a judge. Am I doing this right? And this is because, even in the sense of a Yoga or front-facing sadhana, you do not just have to do nothing. If you are making the right connections, you are able to interact with a deity, and that is what I would want to ask her. Is this going well in the way it is intended? That way, maybe I won't toxify myself with magic pollution. Her sadhana, itself, is just about the Tri-dhatu tentacles and the massing of clouds of dakinis.

The way that she Mutters is that she iterates Four Dakinis mantra in three different orders. At that point, I am able to argue that the purification of the three worlds is aligning with purification or balancing of the Three Channels, because the Four Dakinis are the main core of all the tantras. Nothing else does this that I am aware of. It is weird and unexplained, that is how I interpret it, and not to the extent that the fourteenth syllable is on the thirty-second nadi or anything like that. Just an aligned outer-to-inner triple balancing.

In the Varahi sadhanas, eight charnel grounds as represented by eight Amoghasiddhi goddesses are the "forbidden" orifices which are sealed, the central being the ninth or permissable crown aperture. A chopper which perhaps mainly cuts ego is instrumental in preventing wind from flowing out the doors, No Ego and Bliss being the main "quietening" agents. The seal can be ruptured by either a physical or mental impulse; "leaking" out the the body therefor being associated with the mind or Asta Vijnana and its work in the cemeteries.


Cinnamasta is a Triple Mantra which includes Vairocani and Varnani and may be called Triple Om Mantra. And so I am so to speak dealing with her Feet rather than her whole self. The first foot arguably is her, or, is the kernel which contains all the rest

The "mountains", each being five peaks in five colors, are Defiled Mind Breaker and Mind's Heart Repose. That tells me something about getting to Citta Cakra. I am not doing much with it without having used No Ego and Bliss to silence the ravings of the Subtle Mind, corresponding to a seventh Kaya, a seventh Dhyani, Vajradhara, and so on. That is why this seventh thing is only a hypostasis because not an inherent part of the human constitution.

That is an interesting take on the Three Jewels, as if such in the Cemeteries. It sounds like it may have a Sanskrit correspondence. I am not sure but I will keep my eyes open.

[shaberon]

Offhand, I do not see much in Sadhanamala that would reflect three simple commands, dissolve, decay, decompose.

Those could have long lists of synonyms, based on Vyava, Nrtti, or Ksaya, and so of course many sadhanas will discuss something Aksaya or that does not decay.

In the example of Ksaya, there is hardly any use of it at all, except perhaps the best example is Usnisa Vijaya 211. This is also good because she is a familiar, exoteric deity who bears out the pattern of Heart Mantra and Near Heart Mantra, and this as a functional scheme is really only used with a few of them:

Arya Tara Bhattarika 115 has a series of unusual types

Lightning Ekajati clearly uses Heart and Near Heart.

Twelve Arm Marici 140 has a few kinds of them and Vajradakini Samaya.

Dhvajagrakeyura 210

Vairocani 226

You occasionally see a Heart Mantra employed in some way, but those are about the only places it starts a "Russian doll" procedure.

Usnisa 211 is with Lokesvara, Vajrapani, and Mahabala. She does a Nyasa or body placement of six syllables. Towards the end, her mantras say:

oṃ bhruṃ svāhā - hṛdayamantraḥ /oṃ
amṛtāyur dade svāhā - upahṛdayāmantraḥ / oṃ amite
amitodbhave amitacakrānte amitāgātre amitagāmini
amitāyur dade gaganakīrttikari sarvvakleśakṣayaṃkarīye
svāhā - iti mālāmantraḥ /

Her Heart and Near Heart are exoteric, and it is especially an "animal feeding" set, I use it all the time. As for her Mala, we find Sarva Klesa Ksayam Kariye, invoking her as "dissovling or decaying" all obscurations/hindrances (klesa).

Usnisa is a Tara who will come to you quickly and easily, compared to the others. This one is not just a good didactic or learning device, I would say she is crucial, essential.

I will keep looking for some phrase that represents, arguably, three stages of removal/decay, etc., it seems perhaps familiar, but this is what jumped out in thinking of likely words for it.

[Old Student]

The skull garlands may be designated as "fresh or wet heads", or as skulls. Generally, fresh heads refers to attacking hindrances; skulls are void. This one is described as having bone ornaments and skulls. Her more noticeable feature is an elaborate pedestal which is supported by the Five Dakinis. One of her hands has the standard blood-filled kapala, from which she drinks; otherwise, the bones are just from fire and cemeteries.

I got the feeling you meant her ornaments -- as in 5 ornaments -- were made of skulls. Part of the reason for my comment is that her name means "head ornament", and is the name given to crowns and helmets.


A chopper which perhaps mainly cuts ego is instrumental in preventing wind from flowing out the doors, No Ego and Bliss being the main "quietening" agents. The seal can be ruptured by either a physical or mental impulse; "leaking" out the the body therefor being associated with the mind or Asta Vijnana and its work in the cemeteries.
What is the wind that No Ego and Bliss prevent from flowing? Is this the "winds and channels" wind?


That is an interesting take on the Three Jewels, as if such in the Cemeteries. It sounds like it may have a Sanskrit correspondence. I am not sure but I will keep my eyes open.

Or it has something to do with the Bardo -- water, smoke, fireflies

[Old Student]

Offhand, I do not see much in Sadhanamala that would reflect three simple commands, dissolve, decay, decompose.

Those could have long lists of synonyms, based on Vyava, Nrtti, or Ksaya, and so of course many sadhanas will discuss something Aksaya or that does not decay.

Right after she said that, I had thoughts and feelings about it, which are perhaps relevant. The first I had was to link up the three jewels of the refuge with these three, if done in order, it would be:
dissolve - jewel - Buddha - throat
decay - plane - Dharma - palate
decompose - cells/dancer - Sangha - head

The first one makes the most sense, the dissolve is of the processes most intimately related with the jewel, and the jewel does show the interpenetration in part by showing grottos of buddhas and bodhisattvas.

The second is the plane and that is about being the breeze and extending outward beyond my body - don't get it

The third is connected to cells, so maybe as a congregation of cells a sangha, but also the dancer which I don't get.

Then the next thing that occurred to me was not to make that kind of match up at all and just think that they were the three jewels because they want me to take refuge in them. This one actually does make sense in a way.

The analogy I mentioned, with stages of dissolution in the Bardo works only to a point and then what to do with the candle flame, but that might be okay since I'm not at my crown yet, but then why call them the three jewels if there are more of them to come?


I will keep looking for some phrase that represents, arguably, three stages of removal/decay, etc., it seems perhaps familiar, but this is what jumped out in thinking of likely words for it.

I had been thinking that, as I had in my list above, but I'm not sure they are "stages", since I'm not sure they build on each other, they sort of "go" different places. I might have hoped to have more after last night, but it took me all night to get used to the set up, which was the same as the night before, so I didn't succeed in getting anywhere.

[shaberon]

dissolve - jewel - Buddha - throat
decay - plane - Dharma - palate
decompose - cells/dancer - Sangha - head



Well, I think you can do that. It does not come from the Abhidharma in any way that I can think of, but, you have a meaningful triangle that would like a way to express itself.

Usually in the teachings, you wind up finding something is "provisional", or is like an intro, and then something is added or changed.

And yes, the sangha per se can be explained as meaning "all lives" which for an individual is cellular, and as soon as I start thinking in those terms, I think the gut flora are the motor of the body as well as the immune system, and this is of course the "first" Agni.

The sangha in this sense would be like the following Greek symbol:

=

it means

Zoe

Ecclesia

which again refers to the One Life and the Many Lives and the fact that this symbol can be globally recognized as "equal" is exactly this. And then, in a religious sense, there in fact was an impulse to establish Ecclesia, or Assemblies, which was usurped to make a Circe or Church which is a building and institution which has no scriptural authority.

So you have a peculiarly throat-centered way of becoming familiar with what sounds to me to at least bear some congruency to Smoke, Mirage, and Fireflies, something like a Far Approach to the First Void. All of this is definitely stages, and if you mean something simultaneous, it is more like Tri-dhatu or Triloka. And in a lot of the slightly advanced sadhanas, they do begin to teach this Triloka in an emphatic way, it may be said to be affected by a deity's Vajra or other item, but it becomes an important subject. Various Vajrayoginis are using it, and Ziro Bhusana simply happens to be ingesting the heart blood of the sangha or entire population of all three worlds. She is an ironic purifying vampire, which is along the lines of Vetali popping up as the jazz queen in the Age of Aquarius bearing nectar.

Ziro Bhusana's published mantra calls her Dukhaye which I am not sure is really a word, and have tried to suggest they may have jotted down the Tibetan phrase dum skyes ma which means Generation Stage. If anything, the first way would just call her Suffering. Her heart rays hook everyone's life channels, and by drinking their heart blood she is sucking the life channels into her mouth, her straws are everyone themselves. In doing so, obscurations are purified, birth and death are cut off from the root.

I was not aware her name is a "phrase". In Tibetan, she is given the title Jetsunma. The ornamentation of her head as it appears to me is it being a Lion, which is the only case I know of where this is not Simhamukha (Wrathful Jnana Dakini). They have a similar role, or, must be connected to the Sixth element. I perhaps live with Dharmadhatu Vajra, especially understood as Mental Object not coming from the senses. The opposite pole of this is Gnosis, which is the indriya, power, or sense capable of perceiving or transcending this object. The Ishvari, Yidam, or Prajna of this Family is Ultimate Enlightenment as obtainable in this realm. So for example, when Marici is called Vajrasattva Ishvari, that is what it means. The related Sense and Sense Object are Bodhisattvas. The Mental Object Dharmadhatu Vajra is significant towards understanding Vilasini and how when it is central it can become Grey Jewel Family Padma Jalini. It is a somewhat generic name. Mental Object could be characterized by any kind of experience.

Exactly how Dharmadhatu Ishvari at first is the five-fold mind, and then the term Dharmadhatu properly occupies the sixth position, is perhaps only the beginning of the fact that what we call Bodhisattva Path is the complete purification of the Dharmadhatu. Then it is the Seventh Kaya which gets the name Dharmadhatu Kaya.

Five is the number of Nagas and plane of Akash, and it is correct at first the five-fold bundle is related to Vairocana and Indra, and this Vairocana is Brahma which is Shan pa or Entrance to Nirvana. It is legitimate to adapt Samantabhadri to this entourage, which would appear to exclude her from the other lineages which are using her somewhat differently, more on the Sixth principle. Here, she is more like Akasha Dhatu Ishvari, and so if there is some kind of extraction from Indra's Net and some kind of akashic milk, it seems to fit. She may be the Bodhisattva of it. When we use this system, it is Sense of Sight, but it is also Form-as-a-Whole, which is the ganglion or whatever in the palate. Anyone who can see would say they see a whole form. So this has a dual meaning where it is also a type of tantric discovery.


Depending on how you mean "candle flame", if one follows a sadhana such as Cittamani Tara, then you will actually dissolve her Tam syllable piece by piece, and the last thing to go away is Bindu-Nada, so you get that flamelike swoosh, to a point, to nothing. I am not supposed to tell you to do that one but the fact is Death and we would try to give this to anyone who was about to die who would listen to us. Why wait around.

And so all my Refuge would be with Amoghasiddhi Tara whom could also reasonably be called Peaceful Candi.

I think this is this most important part, because I am going to die before I am going to arise as a Complete Manifest Buddha by knowing all the rites of all the Families. I am going to get much, much better at this before I will have anything to do with the real Ekajati or One More Birth.

I suppose in some sense I am doing pure Death Yoga or Mrtyuvacana.

A dissolving syllable is a yogic exercise, whereas the Bardo version is more like states of being that happen to everyone, but the subject is the same.

Maybe it could also be said I simply have a working knowledge of the chakra above the head.

I do not really have this towards the Khecari center, or have elaborate visionary details of any chakras. From studying the Buddhist system, it is very clear they intend a much slower, sustained visit in each of the Joys, than it was possible for me to do without that being explained to me. I ran through the motions and took unconsecrated nectar.

I know that it works magnetically and that if pursued, it will go exactly as the tantras state, with hot nectar and cold mercury and the latter is what enters Higher Yoni Triangle.

It is definitely death unavoidably, and is only Bliss to the extent so generated, and so over a period of years I was able to find death could become coated with bliss.

I do not have a good understanding of the life winds on an individual basis. But we are told this is what Buddha Families actually are.

Vayu or Wind is the Maruts, with the potential harmonized and withdrawn state being called Hanuman. One will notice how little is ever said or done with this. It is just the life-force in the nerves. It is always there, or, you are no longer alive. As it functions throughout the day, it accumulates in the organs, which causes a "heaviness" feeling and one is tired, and the sleep cycle is intended to purge this. In meditation we are cautioned about it arising as Karmic Wind, which is like a subconscious impulse, habit pattern. If this happens, the mind will begin activity; the reverse is also true.

Everything is about this Wind, which is the beginning of Yoga.

Wind Mandala arises from Yam, from void, or from Bindu-Nada which is the top ornament of a normal stupa. What the Inverted Stupa is saying is that its symbol, the Crescent, is the legs, i. e. in a lotus or vajraparyanka or similar yogic pose. It has at least two features; one, it is also the shape and force of a Bow. And so, at the most basic level, we are quelling and reversing ordinary habits like walking around and going to the bathroom. When this life-force starts moving towards the center of the body, there are Victory Banners on the horns of the Crescent which begin to flutter. This is the Wind which is then being aimed into the Agni Kunda or Trikona, which is where we symbolicly place three or four skullcups and begin to heat them.

It is at that point that prana is really thought of as entering and interacting with the throat center. However this is not represented on the Inverted Stupa. The upper parts of it are taking you to Citta Chakra and Mahasukha or Jnana Chakra.

That is why this teaching is going to pan out into a presumably long phase of throat activity characterized by Lotus Family, Bliss, and Sambhogakaya. This likely consists of getting the Winds to abide in the Three Channels until they are able to enter the Avadhut only.

That is not to say you will not physiologically experience melting the white bodhicitta or mixing it with the red and possibly see the Voids.

It is said when you taste Mirror Wisdom, since it contains those higher than itself, you may peer very deep without exactly being "confined" to the state of Mirror Wisdom only.

It is something like throwing extreme power into pure harmony.

It is like being able to run your car engine at 9,000 rpms, and it doesn't burst, because you have a magical cooling system which makes it silent.

Also, importantly, the Winds are not a Buddhist invention by any means. It is the same in Ayurveda or Pythagoras. What we have is a certain system or school of it. For instance, the five-fold pattern which is similar to any of these, is linked to a Hexagram; this union of Garbhadhatu and Vajradhatu consists of the seventh mystical element, and Vajrayogini steps forward to speak to your Klista Manas. This is often what is considered to hold "continuity of consciousness", since both the mind-in-the-senses and the Witness or mental mind can both be interrupted.

The Heart is the Knower of All States.

So i. e. Klista Manas or Very Subtle Mind is seated in the Heart, which contains the Indestructible Drop. It is just made of Wind and Mind.

As an organism, I feel this as my center of power, but one can only say a few things about it metaphysically. As the center, I am trying to grant it Upeksa, which is Vajradakini or the most powerful Jewel of Enlightenment, which being a Jewel means it is the mandatory way for the Yidam or Ishvari's Wisdom to penetrate into the candidate. The Heart is not a bodily orifice. It is not concerned with the Cemeteries--but the crown aperture is, which is also Vajradakini.

That is without even attempting any kind of samaya to her personally. She fairly specifically is those operative powers. If I already know what I am doing, then someday it will be easier to uncover her as a divine form.

That is why the progression, Vairocani, Varnani, Vajradakini is utterly clear to me. I did not really know it worked like that until recently studying it. I knew there was something missing from the Pabonkha type literature, and it seems to me the coil of the practices in close conjunction with the inner meaning is sublime.

Amrita is the name the Mahatmas wished to give the "monad"; the amrita is Varuni who is the source of Vairocani.

By simply invoking Vairocani, we are emanating a roster of Vajradakinis, beginning with Pranava Vajradakini, who is Varnani, and as soon as we are there, Vairocani--Tapas meets Varnani--Inverted Stupa.

However, if I am not invoking her, I am able to find that Guhyajnana Dakini is defined as functioning without empowerments, and that Ziro Bhusana Vajrayogini is above Guhyajnana. I could for example substitute Vairocani's entire character with Durga Suktam. Then I can say Vajrayogini is the teacher of the Secret Doctrine of Dakini Jala, which means it combines almost every facet we have in the tantras, except it appears to stop at the fifth, Akash or Sky, of the Eight Dissolutions. Then I can go into the Dakini Jala and realize its goddess of the Sixth Family is ambiguous. If it wants to be Ziro Bhusana, it will, since she arguably corresponds, any of this caliber are based in Dharmadhatu Vajra.

At the same time it is said that Vasudhara is a preliminary to Vajravarahi, and I can see how Ila, Bhu, and Bharati are directly employed. Eventually, it all leads to Agni, in a Buddhist version who has a samaya being. Correspondingly, there was no way I would say a Vairocani mantra without doing a samaya and so forth with Ila and the others.

Part of the message in that is Yaksha as something different from Dakini, having many kinds, importantly Gandharvas and Maruts.

[Old Student]

Sorry for so late, we had a power outage.


Well, I think you can do that. It does not come from the Abhidharma in any way that I can think of, but, you have a meaningful triangle that would like a way to express itself.

Usually in the teachings, you wind up finding something is "provisional", or is like an intro, and then something is added or changed.

Yes there have been things "discussed" and updated.


So you have a peculiarly throat-centered way of becoming familiar with what sounds to me to at least bear some congruency to Smoke, Mirage, and Fireflies, something like a Far Approach to the First Void. All of this is definitely stages, and if you mean something simultaneous, it is more like Tri-dhatu or Triloka.

It is both, but that may be because I struggle with trying to do so many things at one time. The ordering is what you have there in getting things off the ground, it almost seems backwards or simultaneous when trying to perceive what is expected to be perceived. I have to do throat, palate, head in getting it working, in comprehending it, to the extent that I can thus far, the throat (interpenetration) is the hardest and last.


It is legitimate to adapt Samantabhadri to this entourage, which would appear to exclude her from the other lineages which are using her somewhat differently, more on the Sixth principle. Here, she is more like Akasha Dhatu Ishvari, and so if there is some kind of extraction from Indra's Net and some kind of akashic milk, it seems to fit. She may be the Bodhisattva of it. When we use this system, it is Sense of Sight, but it is also Form-as-a-Whole, which is the ganglion or whatever in the palate. Anyone who can see would say they see a whole form. So this has a dual meaning where it is also a type of tantric discovery.

Some information: The night before last, I wasted the whole night not figuring out what to do until morning. I went into tonight determined not to let that happen again. I was woken and positioned and "slept" for a while and then I woke and did things as they came without worrying about what was and wasn't familiar. I got the three places at least open a crack and held it for a while. There were times when I was practically chanting about taking refuge in dissolve, decay, and decompose, I was eventually told it wasn't for that -- wasn't to make a ritual of. When the three happened, I understood that:

Dissolve is a coming apart that results in me being anybody
Decay is a coming apart that results in me being anywhere
Decompose is a coming apart that results in me being anything

This is because the particular loss of self involved is
Dissolve - no one
Decay - no where
Decompose - no thing

When things cracked open a little -- I didn't get to see visions I could tell were there, I held in it, with a lot of help, and after some time realized that all of this was happening from the throat up while my body had gone into that rainbow liquid covered with sparks thing below.

There was one other thing, at one point the jewel was a sun disc, the plane was the upturned crescent, and the dancer was the nadi-flame. And in the build up, I summoned twice, and both times the middle of me split away from the edges (the summoning is in the arms for the beginning) and did the Phowa sequence, the one I associate with the Phowa and the drops and so forth.

[shaberon]

The odd use of Samantabhadri was an interpretation, based in the Nepalese source which calls female Samantabhadra by the term Sita Tara.

This pattern seems fairly close to what the reviewers of some of the medieval Nepali manuscripts surmised:

"Prajnaparamita becomes Vajradhatvishvari by appropriating Marici and radiating light".



So if we copy from Hodgson, it is clear that what is initially centered on Prajnaparamita then becomes so on Vajradhatvishvari. And this is good for a mnemonic, except we would reason at first it would be Dharmadhatvishvari, which increases and transmutes into things deserving of more specific names, wherein Vajradhatvishvari pertains to the upper life sustaining wind and the Vajra Kaya, which is a very advanced, extremely subtle ability which requires harnessing a power such as Amaravajra.

His expanding groups of Families go one, two, three, five:

1. Prajnaparamita

2. Prajna--Upaya (and the reverse)

3. Three Jewels (iterated three ways like Ziro Bhusana's mantra)


Pancha Jina scheme:

Vairocana--Vajradhatvishvari, Akshobya--Locana, Ratnasambhava--Mamaki, Amitabha--Pandara, Amoghasiddhi--Tara

their Bodhisattvas:

Samantabhadra--Sita Tara, Vajrapani--Ugra Tara, Ratnapani--Ratna Tara, Padmapani--Bhrkuti Tara, Viswapani--Viswa Tara

Sixth is Vajrasattva--Vajrasattvatmika with Ghanta (Bell) bodhisattvas.

It makes Nine Buddha Families by collecting all ten Buddhas and Prajnas and making Vairocana--Vajradhatvishvari one central deity, followed by eight singluars.

These have bodhisattvas as Samantabhadra followed by eight "-pani" types.

But then there is a change, to a Misrita or "mixed" category, which is centered on Avalokiteshvara, and uses scriptural bodhisattvas:

Avalokiteshvara, Maitreya, Gaganaganja, Samantabhadra, Vajrapani, Manjughosha, Sarva Varana Vishkambhin, Ksitigarbha, Khagarbha.

The corresponding females are:

Bhrkuti Tara, Maitrayani, Pushpa Tara, Sita Tara, Ekajati, Vagisvari, Dhupa Tara, Dipa Tara, Gandha Tara

Those are followed by the nine Dharanis, and, then the one known instance where something talks about Dharma Amnaya or lineage of reality, which is Vajradhatvishvari and the Prajnas followed by Vasudhara, Pratyangira, and Guhyeshvari.

So what it is calling Sita Tara there would be understood as Samantabhadri, and in one sense she is the Bodhisattva of Vajradhatvishvari, but even when they circulate the mandala to be centered on Lotus Family, she still comes up as the correspondence to Samantabhadra. Here, she pretty specifically is the Bodhisattva of Vairocana Family, which is not really the same as the chiefly Nyingma lineages where the couple are the Dhyanis of the Sixth Family.

It would be legitimate to use either one, but, if Samantabhadri seems meaningful as the center of five-fold power, then it is this one, which is a type of Sita Tara and Akasha Dhatvishvari. But it is not "Sita Tara" as a proper name, which means she has four arms. It is just a White Tara and a White Dakini of Vairocana Family--which would generically be called Buddha Dakini, which again is not the same as the proper name Buddhadakini who is Mahamaya's red consort. However, most of those red consorts are a Vajravarahi from Vairocana Family.

Ms. English is correct that you have to evaluate whether a name or word is being used generically or specifically. Again, especially Bhrkuti, as an adjective it always means scowling, but, as a personality, she is not.






And then if we say Vajrasattva is explanatory at first, towards most tantra, like in Khasama or Equal to the End of the Sky and into Samputa Tantra, then we find Guru is explanatory towards this most subtle portion, or the use or explanation of Vajradhatvishvari, if she is just a "mnemonic placeholder" in the above, she really means the critical life wind.

What we call Vajra Rosary is based on a published Columbia thesis (https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/download/fedora_content/download/ac:164410/content/Kittay_columbia_0054D_10303.pdf). It will download from there. One summary says:

The Vajra Rosary Tantra (Śrī Vajramālā Vyākhyā Tantra) is one of the most significant and detailed tantras attributed to the Buddha, in his emanation as Vajradhara. It instructs a practitioner how to overcome the 108 energies and their related instinctual conceptions that circulate in the subtle body and mind and drive continued rebirth in cyclic existence, in order to attain the freedom of enlightenment. One of the explanatory tantras of the Buddhist Esoteric Community (Guhyasamāja) Tantra, its unexcelled yoga tantric system is among the most advanced systems described in Tibetan Buddhist literature. It mainly focuses on the final stage of Buddhist tantric practice, the perfection stage by means of which a person is said actually to become a buddha.

There is no more authoritative endorsement than that of the great Tibetan renaissance scholar, Lama Tsong Khapa, who strongly recommended the Vajra Rosary Tantra as follows: “Nāgārjuna, in condensing the perfection stage into the five stages, follows this tantra; he also follows it regarding the creation stage three samadhis, four yogas, thirty-two deities, and so forth. . . . It explains the many stages of creation and dissolution of the body in terms of the channel structure, wind energy movement, and enlightenment-spirit substance as a factor in the decisive ascertainment of the internal and external life-energy controls for bringing forth the four voids and the magic body, depending on . . . the hidden discipline of desire and of the vajra recitation . . . and the limitless ways for the dawning of realization. . . . It seems that such excellent elucidation is rarely seen.”

This is similar to the thing from Nepal. The main life wind is counted separately, and Vajradhatvishvari is found as Space Element and Sense of Touch. This is in common with Guhyasamaja. The Prajnas, particularly, are intended to move. So Locana will be in a different family and so is Mamaki.

The energy-winds are explained by Alamka to consist of the ten better-known
root and branch energy-winds, nine of which (minus the life energy energy-wind) are
found in each of the six chakras, making fifty-four, moving both in the day and night,
resulting in one-hundred eight. Adding the life energy energy-wind would make “more
than one-hundred eight.” The Vajra Rosary, however, gives these energy-winds rather
colloquial names, describing how the energy-winds grasp objects, beginning with
“Sending and Grasping, One Hundred Million, Intoxicating, Stupid, Cooling, Itching,
Mucus, Axe,” and so forth. Since we only have the Tibetan for these names of energy winds, the task of comparison is made difficult. Back-translating into Sanskrit, however,
yields some insight. For example, Alamka comments that “The ‘One-Hundred Million
[Tib. dung phyur] [Energy-wind]’ is supported by the Extreme Power Channel.

‘Realized by A and RA,’ [it is called] One Hundred Million; the two winds are the
Evacuative Wind.” This seems rather strange unless one realizes that “realized by A
and RA” could be rendered in Sanskrit as arbuda (/bud being an alternate root for /budh
and /bund, meaning known or realized), and that arbuda is also Sanskrit for “One Hundred Million.”768 There are other instances of this phenomenon, illustrated in the
notes to the translation. 769

As explained in more detail in the CMP, meditation on the energy-winds is the
preparatory stage of the first of Nagarjuna’s five stages, vajra repetition. In accordance
with the well-known notion that the subtle body energy-winds are the mounts of the
subtle-mind conceptualities, chapter three concludes with the naming of the one hundred
eight conceptualities.

768 Jayabhadra, writing in the ninth century, discussing the etymology of rahasyam, “secret,” notes that “Ra
is said to mean ‘penis,’ and the syllable ha, ‘vulva’.”

769 I am pursuing further research on the names of the energy-winds in an attempt to identify whether they
are so called in other systems. The energy-winds’ colloquial rather than technical names, with the
incorporation of various puns and so forth suggests a mnemonic device, which may make sense if this
tradition was primarily oral.



Chapter forty-five summarizes in part the body mandala of the Secret Community
Noble tradition, but only places relatively few of the thirty-two deities at particular parts
of the body. The five aggregates are the five Buddhas: form is the “Conqueror of
Conquerors,” JINAJIK (Vairocana); consciousness the “Vajra Holder” VAJRADRIK
(Aksobhya); feeling the “Jewel Holder,” RATNADRIK (Ratnasambhava); perception
“Crossing Over from Cyclic Existence,” AROLA1KA (Amitabha); and compositional
factors the “Wisdom Holder,” PRAJÑADRIK (Amoghasiddhi). The elements are:

earth as “Ignorance Ecstasy,” MOHARATI (Locana); water as “Hatred Ecstasy,”
DVESARATI (Mamaki); fire as “Passion Ecstasy,” RAGARATI; wind as “Vajra
Ecstasy,” VAJRARATI; and space as Vajradhatuisvari.


The five sense goddesses are:

form as Rupavajri; sound Sabdavajri; scent Gandhavajri; taste Rasavajri; and touch as
Sparsavajri, Vajradhatuisvari. The sense media are the bodhisattvas: eyes are
Ksitigharba; ears Vajrapani; nose Akashagharba; tongue Lokesvara; body
Avaranaviskambini; mind Samantabhadra; and the channels as Meitreya. Supreme
wisdom is Mañjusri, and “the entities of the body” are the ten Terrifics.


The tantra itself begins on p. 413 to 700-something, is based on the Lhasa rescension, and is like an Arya lineage of Akshobyavajra. It is a bit different from our Yoga preliminaries because it is only a Completion Stage. It deals with six chakras by adding the ajna, and its main subject is in opening and using Citta or Heart Chakra via the life winds and subtle body. Its association of Winds to Buddhas is:


Energy-Wind Buddha Color Element Aggregate Wisdom

Life-Energy Aksobhya Black Water Consciousness Dharma Sphere

Evacuative Ratnasambhava Yellow Space Sensation Equalizing

Ascending Amitabha Red Fire Motivation Discriminative

Equalizing Karmavajradhara Green Wind Perception Accomplishing

Pervading Vairocana White Earth Matter Mirror-like

So again, this is something that I am not sure I would use much of, directly, but it is something rolling in the background while working up to it. In this classification, Akshobya has taken Dharmadhatu Wisdom from Vairocana by attaching it to the Life Energy Wind. Which will return us to the fact that this is more like the Book of Winds, is the place where they are directly and thoroughly handled.

[shaberon]

Dissolve - no one
Decay - no where
Decompose - no thing


There was one other thing, at one point the jewel was a sun disc, the plane was the upturned crescent, and the dancer was the nadi-flame. And in the build up, I summoned twice, and both times the middle of me split away from the edges (the summoning is in the arms for the beginning) and did the Phowa sequence, the one I associate with the Phowa and the drops and so forth.

In thinking of the first, it suggested the three natures or natureless-nesses of Yogacara, but I am not sure. The intent of the first sounds the same, No Ego or Nairatma, but of the others I am not sure. For example, it does not seem that there is usually much difficulty about thinking one's self to be a thing or some kind of foreign object. So it sounds more like a mental ability to selflessly experience various objects, than the transmutation of a sin or impurity.

But then if you have the sun--crescent--nada, that is amazing, that would be a Nimitta or Sign in any school, very major. Hum syllable in some schools of Nyingma is based on exactly this. That has nothing to do with the Crescent of Inverted Stupa, it is closer to the upright one.

Vajra Rosary deals with "sixteen emptinesses" which is beyond my understanding. The first main reference to the Winds in chapter sixteen is very difficult, but, after iterating their behavior, it sum totals it with an interesting mix of death and bliss focused in the throat center:

Having been obscured,
From that, even consciousness, Becomes insensate,
And you faint.
It obscures part
Of the sense bases.
It is the wisdom of purity,
Supreme of supreme.
From that, the life energy
[Energy wind] dissolves
Becoming equal
To consciousness. //22//
Supreme reality
Is thus explained.
The dissolving and arising
Of the life-energy [energy-wind]
And exact understanding
Arises through the process
Of the lineage guru. //23//
I will also explain
The reason
For attaining
The vajra body,
Achieving
The deathless state.
One who achieves
The supreme body
Of immortality
Is the support
Of good qualities. //24//
Because of that,
Owing to the short lifespan
Of living beings,
They unable to accomplish
The immortal state.
Thus, with utmost effort,
You should achieve longevity. //25//
O Lord Savior!
Supreme Wisdom!
Transcendent Reality Yoga!
He bowed to Vajrasattva, asking:
How do you dissolve well
Into the lineage
Of the two immortalities? //26//
Then the Vajra Lord said:
The state that achieves
All actions,
The great deathless yoga,
Ascertains perfect reality. //27//
For the short-lived beings
There is no way
To achieve attainment.
Therefore the good yogis
[Hold] longevity to be a virtue.
For that, first the intelligent one
[Versed in] supreme yoga
Should accomplish
The inner nature. //28//
Touching the tongue
To the middle of the palate,
Repeat the thatness word.1902
Having assumed the
Spiritual hero posture,
You should recollect
Perfect yoga.1903 //29//
You should move the breath
To the tip of the nose,1904
And should clearly
Shut the mouth.
The moon arrives
At the place of the palate,1905
And melts by the yoga
Of mantra.

1902 Robert Thurman says this is to be done silently. Personal Communication 4-20-06.

1903 The Commentary states that "perfect yoga" refers to sems kyi ‘jug pa ‘gog pa’i rnam pa’o, a kind of
shutting down of the engagement of the mind. 121A. This stanza is also quoted in Alamka 31B in
discussing the attainment of "paralyzing an army."

1904 I.e. the conventional nose. Commentary 121A. As for the method, Alamka states: dbugs ni mi ‘byung
zhes bya ba ni ‘od zer gyi thig le bsgom pa’i bdag nyid can no// "The breath not arising" means having the
nature of meditating the drop of clear light. Commentary 121A.

1905 Alamka explains: "'The moon arriving at the place of the palate' means enlightenment spirit in the
aspect of a moon. 'One should melt' means by applying the uvula.1905 If someone asks how, it is stated as
the 'yoga of mantra,' the meaning which is 'connected' 'by the unbroken mantra.' [The enlightenment
spirit] is melted by means of the uvula. 'By wind yoga' means by applying the falling of the downward
voiding wind. 'Drinks' means that one should experience nectar." 121A. "What is particularly surprising
about this passage is the characterization [in the Ta#tir#yopanishad's Shiks!valli] of the uvula as Indra's
womb. Indra is of course the great Soma drinker from the Vedas. Throughout the Yogic and Tantric
literature we find that the uvula is described as the site where the nectar of immortality (amrta, also a
common epithet of Soma) drips down, after the kundalini or enlightenment spirit has risen up to the crown
of the head.” Hartze1l 1997, 582.

The chief of yoga
Should always drink
By the yoga
Of the melting
Of energy-wind. //30//
At the end of the middle
Of the night,
The yogi recites mantra
In one session without stopping,
Making the vajra body. //31//
To summon the life-energy
Of the practitioner,
Always repeat
Without losing the limbs
The third of the second group,
Including the vowel. //32//
Also, you should always
Use the substance,
Producing the stage
Of the five realities.
When you complete
The recitation,
There are never
Any stains arising
On the body. //33//
As for the vessel
Made of five metals,
You holding it
Until sunrise,
Pouring constantly into it
The blood
Of a young woman
And enlightenment spirit.
The supreme substance
Is called the seven nectars. //34//

So again, this is focused on all the winds, opening the heart, and relying on the main central wind. The "many winds" are the basis of conceptuality, but the prime wind is non-conceptual. So it is something like a rosary of 108 pranic transmutations followed by "one state".

[Old Student]

It explains the many stages of creation and dissolution of the body in terms of the channel structure, wind energy movement, and enlightenment-spirit substance as a factor in the decisive ascertainment of the internal and external life-energy controls for bringing forth the four voids and the magic body, depending on . . . the hidden discipline of desire and of the vajra recitation . . . and the limitless ways for the dawning of realization. . . . It seems that such excellent elucidation is rarely seen.”

I get the feeling that the winds are not, or not exclusively, in the channels. I had made this error in thinking because of the three channels in the middle, but the "winds" seem to be more pervasive than just the channels, or the channels are more pervasive than I'm thinking of them.


earth as “Ignorance Ecstasy,” MOHARATI (Locana); water as “Hatred Ecstasy,”
DVESARATI (Mamaki); fire as “Passion Ecstasy,” RAGARATI; wind as “Vajra
Ecstasy,” VAJRARATI; and space as Vajradhatuisvari.

Do RAGARATI and VAJRARATI also have correspondences? For some reason I searched the document and did not come up with anything, except for a surprising number of words which have "rati" in them.


In this classification, Akshobya has taken Dharmadhatu Wisdom from Vairocana by attaching it to the Life Energy Wind. Which will return us to the fact that this is more like the Book of Winds, is the place where they are directly and thoroughly handled.

This looks promising.

[Old Student]

In thinking of the first, it suggested the three natures or natureless-nesses of Yogacara, but I am not sure. The intent of the first sounds the same, No Ego or Nairatma, but of the others I am not sure. For example, it does not seem that there is usually much difficulty about thinking one's self to be a thing or some kind of foreign object. So it sounds more like a mental ability to selflessly experience various objects, than the transmutation of a sin or impurity.

The differences are easier to understand in the dissolve, decay, decompose format. Otherwise being anything seems like it includes being anyone, and other anomalies. In dissolve, I do become things that are inanimate - scenes and so forth, but I am them as somewhere on the anyone--no one dimension or something. That's different than being a kind of a mirage-like thing like the dancer. Even empty space is "really there" compared to a mirage which might or might not be, the droplets and sun are there for the rainbow, but it only exists as a rainbow because of an observer.

As for anywhere--nowhere, these actually move or maybe seep me out into the world, so it's again different.


But then if you have the sun--crescent--nada, that is amazing, that would be a Nimitta or Sign in any school, very major. Hum syllable in some schools of Nyingma is based on exactly this. That has nothing to do with the Crescent of Inverted Stupa, it is closer to the upright one.

I've seen the symbol before, and even seen it in faces of, like, Durga statues and such, I didn't understand when it was happening that it was big significance. It had the same quality as the time the lotus unfolded in my head, which I had also related to you. I need to pay more attention to these things, I guess.


Having been obscured,...
[...]
Touching the tongue
To the middle of the palate,
Repeat the thatness word.1902
Having assumed the
Spiritual hero posture,
You should recollect
Perfect yoga.1903 //29//
You should move the breath
To the tip of the nose,1904
And should clearly
Shut the mouth.
The moon arrives
At the place of the palate,1905
And melts by the yoga
Of mantra.

Wow.
Is it okay to consider the Dakinis to be guru deities? They are the ones instructing me.

[shaberon]

Do RAGARATI and VAJRARATI also have correspondences? For some reason I searched the document and did not come up with anything, except for a surprising number of words which have "rati" in them.


Yes, those are just generic names for Pandara and Tara. In this sense, it is taking the sin of the family and intensifying it to "Rati" which is sexual intercourse. So for example Dvesa Rati loves to be angry all the time, won't stop. In this same way, it is acceptable to call the Heart, Hatred. In this way, I boldly face its most direct failure, and admit how very little of its true power I must have.


So when Guhyasamaja is centered on Akshobya, it means the six arm blue deity is the heart, or is like the expanded form of the tiny blue drop; they are of the same nature.

And so this type of blue male is essentially the "guy" who continues through all the tantras, who manifests as Smrti in the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment, Vajradaka.

We said that Vajradakini is not necessarily in Vajra Family, and that she is more like a "class" which unrolls from Vairocani and Varnani, but as an individual she for instance mainly handles the crown center. And then, as if penetrating a subterfuge, it turns out she really does have an outer form, which is Parasol.

Hinduism basically eschews six armed deities as if it were too revelatory of Sadguna Brahman, however there are very many in Buddhism, and particularly so because they are like an occult development such as Akshobyavajra portrays in Guhyasamaja.

From what we can tell in the evolution of female deities, six is some kind of a stumbling block where there is a momentary loss of identity. Most remarkably, Parasol loses her Parasol item.

At that point, we can examine how close White Grahamatrika is to her, but there is not a six arm Blue Mahacina and either not or a very rare Ekajati.

But we do find that Parasol co-opts or gains command of Pratyangira. This is unusual, since many Buddhist deities are converts and upgrades from Hiduism, except for the Usnisa class. And so how these two became intertwined, I am not sure. Pratyangira is Narasimhi or Lion Face, usually having four arms, perhaps is a type of ardhanarishvar since the face is described as male. She is a fusion of Siva, Vishnu, and Adi-Shakti or Tri-Shakti. She is not common, since her main role is to demolish black magic, but her mantra is Ham Ksham which I at least found useful to the ajna in thinking of its petals to mainly be two "wings", and the male deities uses a Kinnara and a Two Headed Bird to form her.

Nevertheless, Pratyangira does have one Buddhist form, which is a Hum-arisen Vajra Family Six Arm Blue Tara with a normal human face. This is a short article probably from the missing back half of Sadhanamala; Bhattacharya tells us:

Mahapratyahgira is blue in colour, six-armed, and one-faced. She shows in her three right hands the sword, the goad, and the Varada mudra, and in her three left hands she holds the Tarjani with the noose against the chest, the red lotus
and the trident ; she originates from the syllable "Hum", bears the image of Aksobhya on her crown, is decked in all sorts of ornaments, and is young and beautiful.

He then finds that in Nepal. Thousand Arm Parasol is considered to be the same thing.

https://www.wisdomlib.org/uploads/files/fig144-Pratyangira.jpg





https://www.wisdomlib.org/uploads/files/fig145-Pratyangira.jpg





In her origin legend, as "shakti" of Visnu Narasimha, it is a bit weird, since she was created to pacify him by being stronger. This is before Varaha; on a grand scale, the combats refer to the turbulent heating and cooling of the planet and the mostly watery surface after the Cracking of the Egg.

You won't find any kind of ordinary Radha soap opera love story there, nothing that the average person can relate to.


The Vajra Rosary appears to me to attach to the overhead of most of the material I discuss. It sort of "flew by" the phase of raising the energy into the head, and talks about its melted flow downwards. It does so with an extension of Vase Breathing. The most general description of Vase says that we raise the Downward Wind and lower the Upward Wind until they "handshake" in the Nirmana Chakra, which is the sought-for unity that sucks in the winds to the central. Then when the Bodhicitta Nectar is poised to drip from the uvula, the "handshake" is moved to that region and the Downward Wind guides it on through, which will make it coat the Heart and then eventually mix into the Red Bodhicitta.

I am not sure if I have ever experienced that many "channels" or if it is not more accurate to say there could be a sensation more like the chambers of a sponge or something.

But when the teachings say "filament", this is pretty accurate for the Avadhut.

Some of what I become sensitive to is Oxygen and some of it is Electricity. Oxygen is more like Ayus or Agni and Aerial Flame. Electricity is more like Ocean Fire and Vaidyut. We say that there are a whole bunch of Winds which very little is ever said about. We lack such a thing as a Vayu tantra for the most part. Varuna is "submerged" and can only be described as a process of offspring Varuni. Agni is the much more developed Element since it is Fire Philosophy which says the fires are the illuminated mind which rides the Winds, still mostly like in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.

In Buddhist Tri-samadhi, the main channels are handled as Body, Speech, and Mind; physiologically, we know it is more intricate than this. The system appears to emphasize Three Channels, Four Chakras, and Inverted Stupa until you are fluent in it, not the philosophy, but the practice. Here, we should also bear in mind there is even a "pause" region, largely based in the Throat and what could be summarized as the gathering of the lower, to the proper way of melting the White Bodhicitta and making it flow.

At that point is when they would give systems for five or six physical chakras, and the massively detailed systems such as Dakarnava and Vajra Rosary or Kalachakra. That is why I can only say so much about Citta Chakra since it is intensely personal and spiritual and is handled more by the Completion systems.

One could perhaps say Vajrayogini arises to handle one's Klista Manas or Very Subtle Mind, and Vajradhara will encapsulate Vajradhatvishvari or Life Supporting Wind, and we have boiled it down to little but mind and wind, and those two become consorts.

[shaberon]

Is it okay to consider the Dakinis to be guru deities? They are the ones instructing me.

Do you have any kind of lineage guru?

Yidam and Dakini are like roles which can be interchangeably occupied.

I would guess it might be important to ascertain one as their chief, like Ekajati or Guhyajnana Dakini.

Look over what has been given and it is like a universal way that all can harness Vajradakini, she is really not much of a mystery, just interesting and perhaps a little weird.

Or if I am comfortable with Avalokiteshvara, Guhyajnana is already there.

Depends a bit on which Family is closest.

[Old Student]

The Vajra Rosary appears to me to attach to the overhead of most of the material I discuss. It sort of "flew by" the phase of raising the energy into the head, and talks about its melted flow downwards. It does so with an extension of Vase Breathing. The most general description of Vase says that we raise the Downward Wind and lower the Upward Wind until they "handshake" in the Nirmana Chakra, which is the sought-for unity that sucks in the winds to the central. Then when the Bodhicitta Nectar is poised to drip from the uvula, the "handshake" is moved to that region and the Downward Wind guides it on through, which will make it coat the Heart and then eventually mix into the Red Bodhicitta.

Likewise. When I tried vase breathing, it was far easier to make everything move up and to move it to places and much more difficult to make things "blaze and drip".


Here, we should also bear in mind there is even a "pause" region, largely based in the Throat and what could be summarized as the gathering of the lower, to the proper way of melting the White Bodhicitta and making it flow.

This may be something. I do not know what is intended next, I do know that they are ready to move on, I minimally did the thing with the dissolve, decay, decompose, and the rest of flushing that out appears to be up to me.

[Old Student]

Do you have any kind of lineage guru?

I have my Liuhebafa teacher, the practice has been a constant for decades, and I spent one year or so doing Soto Zen under a master, still in touch with that school. No initiations into Tibetan or any other Vajrayana from human teachers, I did not intend to be doing this, it all started up from my shaking.


I would guess it might be important to ascertain one as their chief, like Ekajati or Guhyajnana Dakini.

This varies greatly depending on subject matter. For the recent things at my throat, the prominent ones have been Ekajati, Kurukulla, Cunda, the new one, Samantabhadri. Mandarava is around for any management tasks so maybe her, Samantabhadri can kind of envelope the others into her. The new one has been dominant in the stuff most recently.

Last night they came at things from a completely different angle, still cognizant of the three things at my throat, but they dug back into stuff they had been doing with me months ago and started sort of integrating it or mixing it with this newer stuff. They had me dissolve into the scene that produces the pillar in its thick form. In that form, if I go inside I can access lucid dreaming from there. They had me do this in a weird form that interpenetrated shaking and dreaming in a kind of nesting thing and then presented that as a facet of the jewel (at my throat) with the jewel integrating with the plane and the dancer as I have related to you has been the goal recently.

It was very sort of spectacular and blissful, but it was extraordinarily difficult to keep track of everything, and I wasn't producing it, I was being taught it. If they are going to pull all the past things into the current "three jewels", it will probably take some time. The Phowa stuff has been recently showing up, so maybe this already started a while ago, and I'm noticing it because of how exotic it was to be a nested sequence of dreams and shakings.

[shaberon]

Well, that's the thing. Many of us in the west are not in any kind of position to have a Vajrayana Guru. From what I have found, there are only recently starting to be some, there are Sakya in Seattle who transmit the same Vajra Tara as in Sadhanamala, there are Jonang in Atlanta, Drikung in North Virginia, Gelug in Michigan, things that are like actual outposts, compared to the Dharma Centers or meditation halls like we have for Karma Kagyu, those are everywhere, but the person in charge probably is not quite like a Vajracharya.

So I and a lot of people honestly don't actually have a Guru and probably never will.

There are two systems that I know of which say it is ok to do Guru Yoga with a transcendental guru. The first is Shiva as Sri Daksinamurti in the Shakta system of Adi Shankara. The other one is Vajradhara in Kagyu.

Comparatively, Gelug does most of its Guru Yoga as Lama Chopa which is based on Vajra Rosary, and will add on Tson Khapa and Avalokiteshvara and their own lineage, and expect there to be a human in the final spot.

I personally was unable to succeed with H. H. Dalai Lama--Lama Chopa or the Padmasambhava style of Nyingma sects. So I stick to the Kagyu version and for the Refuge Tree I make it really small since I am only somewhat familiar with Naro and Tilo and some of the first Karmapas. The main thing that I get from it is that Vajradhara is my Guru. And what do I get from him...nothing.

Vajradhara is too transcendent to do anything but teach Bodhisattvas on the Celestial Plane.

That is why the other teachings and tantras arise, and it is like he is behind them all.

The Shangpa Five Deity scheme requires you to use a Guru, Yidam, Dakini, Wrathful, and Protector.

And so Dakini in this sense is Activity; they may be perceivably present and energetic, but eventually, they are only satisfied by successful action. That is what is intended to be harnessed/learned.

The Yidam or Ista Devata is Ultimate Enlightenment. It is this which we are trying to aim our subtle mental states at. And it would be correct to say, for instance, Jnana Dakini is a Yidam. So it is entirely possible for dakinis to serve in this role.

It would be correspondingly unusual to see one in a Guru Role; Shangpa might use Niguma, and so forth, or Mandarava, etc., or Achi who composed herself into a sadhana.

Out of the things mentioned, any of us could attempt to gain the graces of Cunda, but it is very unusual that a person would have a clear connection to Ekajati and Kurukulla, which are also Yidams; Ekajati is also Wrathful, and she is also a Protector, of certain tantras, only.

When I was younger first getting started with this, I was successful with Tara, but not with Vajrayogini. That is because the first comes quickly, and the second, may take some consideration. Because I am comfortable with Tara, it is not difficult for me to osmose towards other forms of Tara as a Yidam.

One can more or less attain the Suksma Yoga cycle itself without any of those. It is like in Nath and Laya Yoga. And so the Vajrayogini is really asking for something more. I believe it has a lot to do with making those seed syllables and so forth come alive with inner meaning. As a formula, it is inert. It does deserve all the groundwork.

Suksma Yoga itself is not the Completion Stage, other than it is intended to be done together.

[shaberon]

Without having a given guru or pantheon applied to us, it is also feasible to view Vajrayogini as the Queen of Dakinis.

I am having a hard time retrieving the symbol which clearly shows the sun base for Bindu-Nada, however, as we can tell, this glyph is not just a concept, but an attempt to portray a metaphysical reality.

Buddhist Candali Yoga is definitely not kundalini, which makes it rather more difficult to find appropriate diagrams. It must, perforce, have mostly the same basis in nature, but has a different goal and different methods.

Similarly to the important teaching of Four-fold Om, Vajra Rosary deals with Om as A U M. The syllable Hum is actually Ha plus A U M. That is how Hum is "universal Om" individualized in a Jiva or individual being.

Both syllables contain A, that is, the primordial base sound from which all other combinations derive, which is like the Guru in Prajnaparamita Sutra, and a champion in several tantras. Shangpa goes directly to this. I am amazed by the relative simplicity of this school, it is a type of Kagyu oriented towards female leadership, but without the connection, I am leery of trying to use it. But their explanations are tremendous.

Kukai (http://www.visiblemantra.gonebeyond.net/hum.html) describes Hum on Invariant, Ultimate, and Synthetic meanings. Parts of that are grounded in the basics, but the combinations of Ultimate Meaning are so profuse, they can hardly be enumerated; commentaries which try to do so are as large as his original text.

Many of the older Bindu-Nada diagrams lack a sun base, and generally summarize the Ajna, which Buddhism does not seem to elaborate very much, but uses it as a pass/fail gate when trying to focus Wind there at this particular stage.

So in all Yoga, the Bindu-Nada or Tigle is the same thing. The related practices and visualizations differ between traditions, but, even a basic idea from an Ayurveda blog indicates the Ajna "gating", prior to use of the crown center:

"Most people believe that after Ajna chakra, the next is Sahasrara. It is true, but Bindu comes first, before Sahasrara. Not actually a chakra, but an important point, so I will share its importance with you...Bindu is represented by the crescent moon and a white drop, which is the nectar flowing towards Vishuddhi chakra...Bindu is also the centre of concentration for psychic sounds, Nada, which manifest at this point during practices like brahmari pranayama and shanmukhi mudra, both arising the awareness of Nada.

Symbolized by the full moon as the drop of nectar, and the crescent moon which is associated with the phases of the moon. Bindu has no specific practices for awakening. Once Vishuddhi becomes active it will have a consequential influence on bindu."


That is a bit like what we might call the "real", or inner, Waxing Moon. Yes, you might get a little taste from "day one", but it is intended to increase to an unstoppable discharge. And that is a very fair way of putting it; there is not a "specific" practice which is required, and the power of the chakra itself is what influences the Bindu. That summarizes all Yoga.

The lower sun disc may well be Heat or Manipur, waiting to "drink" the nectar. Heat, so to speak, makes it and takes it.

This is originally based on Vairaja Pranava (https://www.classicyoga.co.in/2018/03/nada-bindu-upanishad/), the son of Viraj Purusha, wherein the brief Bindu Nada Upanishad (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/nada-bindu-upanishad-of-rigveda/d/doc217069.html) is part of the Rg Veda.

So this philosophy, or, more importantly, the realization of this energetic structure is the basis of all Yoga. How similar Vairaja Pranava may be to Pranava Vajradakini (Varnani) would be a matter of simple comparison.

Practically all schools Hindu or Buddhist place Bindu-Nada's function as almost the same, however, in Buddhist tantra, it is certain that once you "have it working for six months" until the white drop is full, and the Downward Wind moves the drop into the Heat, then you get another, very different, Suksma Yoga cycle.

So there are Eight Joys which represent this, but there are really a total of sixteen, and most of the teachings only speak of Four. For simplicity, if we bracket the "main middle part" to its onset, we would see three kinds of experiences:

Rising Heat (Tapas). This is what the Inverted Stupa is doing. It may feel nice. It can be ecstatic. It basically is going to intensify energy around this throat and ajna gating system until it clears the crown and melts the white seed. This is always "the beginning", but, as a teaching or phase, it covers everyone who can't do it yet, up to where you can do it easily and directly in a matter of moments.

Ananda. Naro uses versions of this term for all of the first Four Joys, which could be described as starting with the utter dissipation of aggregates and complete melting of the entire seed, which begins to flow downwards. It is so intense, in some schools, it is taken as "The End"--but like the previous, it is the phase from being able to do it all, to extreme proficiency.

Sahaja. This is what you get when the white finally enters the red, and all subsequent Joys are aspects of Sahaja. It is a drastic change from the previous. There is no such thing as an aggregate, no type of struggle, and although Bliss may be present, it is no longer the defining characteristic. Most of the teachings say it has the nature of mercury rising in a thermometer; I cannot think of any other way to put it. This is the energy that will connect to Higher Yoni Triangle and interface with the Voids, and so again if I say Shentong philosophy is the same as the Indian Para Sunya, this means the fourth, infinite, or cosmic void, which is the seat of Prabhasvara or the Ultimate Object of Meditation, Paramartha, Ultimate Meaning, Clear Light, original destination of Phowa, and so forth.

I cannot say specifically physically exactly what may be happening to the pituitary gland, optic nerve, since those just do whatever they do automatically, and our Yoga teaching is Noumenal which means driven by and related to consciousness, which is kind of like saying when I am tired I yawn, without being sure what diaphragmatic compression or attunement of blood oxygen results...the body does that mostly on its own, and, if I have to, I train in how to yawn more effectively by trial and error.

If someone like me is trying to be careful about raising too much Ekajati or Vajravarahi or any of the dreadnoughts that might be too much for us to handle, we can still walk the Path. Tara may be composed from the elemental shakti syllables:

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/A%20-%20Tibetan%20Buddhism/Subjects/Tantra/Practices-%20(Sadhanas%20and%20commentaries)/Tara/The%20Green%20Tara%20I-IV/IV/BUDDHA_files/seedsyllables.jpg



And she may be dissipated by a retreat into Bindu-Nada. Cittamani Tara actually does Prabhasvara, although she appears to skip the "Sky" stage in so doing:

1. Field of Merit and universal environment sinks into Tara: mirage vision.

2. Tara absorbs into TAM: smoke vision.

3. A-chung into TA: vision of sparks.

4. TA-body into head: dim flame vision. [Lamp]

5. TA head into crescent: white vision. [White Moon Void]

6. Crescent into dot: red vision. [Red Moon Void]

7. Dot into flame (nada): dark vision [Black Void]

8. Flame disappears: clear light vision. [Universal Void]

Then do the meditation of the three kayas.


In other words, if I start with Mahattari Tara and her Flaming Blue Lotus, it will evolve into something similar to this. That is how "Green Tara" after done removing fears is like the easiest and most direct way to Pure Land and the full yoga cycle.

To do this, she may employ any number of auxillaries, acolytes, and Quintessences. As long as it follows the teaching as closely and seriously as possible, she is fine with this. She will take us at any outer, inept, incompetent level, and translate it to inner meaning and Atma Vidya or self-realized experience.


The relevant Hindu Mahavidya to throat transformation is Crane Face:

Bagalamukhi is the most magical of the Maha Vidyas, the primary giver of Siddhi over Matangi; among her other meanings, she is "Complete Stoppage" in the same sense as Kalachakra uses it. She slays enemies, which, esoterically, is the ego; and brings cessation of the thousands of subtle winds, the samadhis of increasing time and power in paralysis (Stambhana). She revolves on issues of speech and deceit; hypnotic. Some consider her the leader of the army of Shaktis. Her chakra is the soft palate or Indra Yoni where all the senses are conjoined. When sound becomes manifest as light, Tara becomes Bagala. When the brilliant light of speech comes forth, then Tara gains the effulgence of Bagala and causes all things to become still. Bagala is thus the stunning radiance that comes forth from the Divine Word and puts the human or egoistic word to rest. Intoxication; amazement. With Matangi (her twin), she specifically confers vak siddhi. This goddess spans from marana, killing by will, to the most profound samadhi.

[Old Student]

And so Dakini in this sense is Activity; they may be perceivably present and energetic, but eventually, they are only satisfied by successful action. That is what is intended to be harnessed/learned.

I wonder if successful action is what happens when I learn something in my shaking, possibly.


The Yidam or Ista Devata is Ultimate Enlightenment. It is this which we are trying to aim our subtle mental states at. And it would be correct to say, for instance, Jnana Dakini is a Yidam. So it is entirely possible for dakinis to serve in this role.

This kind of sort of divine embodiment type of thing happens only rarely during my shaking -- Once with a figure meditating at my heart who was complex, once the time I related to you about the jewel opening up into the interpenetration combined with the dharmachakra. Maybe a couple of other times, but not that kind of embodiment, usually.


It would be correspondingly unusual to see one in a Guru Role; Shangpa might use Niguma, and so forth, or Mandarava, etc., or Achi who composed herself into a sadhana.

This is one of the things I have thought about a lot. Mandarava is there most times, there are those who resemble other Padmasambhava consorts, Yeshe Tsogyal, we discussed Kalasiddhi.


Out of the things mentioned, any of us could attempt to gain the graces of Cunda, but it is very unusual that a person would have a clear connection to Ekajati and Kurukulla, which are also Yidams; Ekajati is also Wrathful, and she is also a Protector, of certain tantras, only.

I know these people are this way, but they are frequently not for me, although if I ever take it for granted that they'll be somehow nice, I get the full thing with the fangs and wrath and such.

[Old Student]

Many of the older Bindu-Nada diagrams lack a sun base, and generally summarize the Ajna, which Buddhism does not seem to elaborate very much, but uses it as a pass/fail gate when trying to focus Wind there at this particular stage.

I had found it (the sun, with moon above and nadi flame above that) in the face of a goddess depiction related to Durgapuja, but when I went back to find it again (after I described it to you) I could only find her with a "sun" and moon and then a third eye instead of the flame, and -- Now -- I don't seem to be able to find it at all.


"Most people believe that after Ajna chakra, the next is Sahasrara. It is true, but Bindu comes first, before Sahasrara. Not actually a chakra, but an important point, so I will share its importance with you...Bindu is represented by the crescent moon and a white drop, which is the nectar flowing towards Vishuddhi chakra...Bindu is also the centre of concentration for psychic sounds, Nada, which manifest at this point during practices like brahmari pranayama and shanmukhi mudra, both arising the awareness of Nada."

This part I am aware of, a relationship between crescent moon and white drop and the Vishuddi chakra, this has been in my shaking only from below. It was milk, or I thought it was, now that there is all this talk about nectar and there are things that look right except for nectar instead of milk, I begin to pause -- is milk ever nectar if coming from the right source?

Below slightly out of order for a reason.


I cannot say specifically physically exactly what may be happening to the pituitary gland, optic nerve, since those just do whatever they do automatically, and our Yoga teaching is Noumenal which means driven by and related to consciousness, which is kind of like saying when I am tired I yawn, without being sure what diaphragmatic compression or attunement of blood oxygen results...the body does that mostly on its own, and, if I have to, I train in how to yawn more effectively by trial and error.

But what if you could? I mentioned last week I had an eye injury. I looked so deeply in some strange direction at a phenomenon in my shaking, in my throat/neck that I strained my retina. Literally. It nearly ripped. I don't control those muscles. My intercostals and subcostals have their usual purpose which is like your yawn, they help with deep breathing. And then they have a second purpose now, they can move in patterns to generate a bliss that can make me come apart and be not a thing, or an empty place, but a glint of light seen from a particular angle, an illusion. They move in concert normally, so this is like feeding them a different motion in concert. I don't have to know how it works, that's true, but I did have to learn to make them work differently from their usual purpose.


Sahaja. This is what you get when the white finally enters the red, and all subsequent Joys are aspects of Sahaja. It is a drastic change from the previous. There is no such thing as an aggregate, no type of struggle, and although Bliss may be present, it is no longer the defining characteristic. Most of the teachings say it has the nature of mercury rising in a thermometer; I cannot think of any other way to put it. This is the energy that will connect to Higher Yoni Triangle and interface with the Voids, and so again if I say Shentong philosophy is the same as the Indian Para Sunya, this means the fourth, infinite, or cosmic void, which is the seat of Prabhasvara or the Ultimate Object of Meditation, Paramartha, Ultimate Meaning, Clear Light, original destination of Phowa, and so forth.

The reason for the above about the intercostals was that last night I was bliss-numbed everywhere but my chest -- that is that the bliss was being created elsewhere but they deliberately made it so I couldn't feel it to eliminate distractions. I concentrated on this chest action, actually one which refines more and more until it is controlling the muscles in the areolae only, and after about an hour of this, they set up a thing where that energy lanced inward and towards the center, and blanked everything but a very dark version of my clear body. This tweaked something in my chest which started the cellular shaking -- the cell level bliss, but more importantly the decompose. They had me decompose over and over again and try to hold, and approached the three way thing (dissolve, decay, decompose) from that direction. I had two of them holding after more time, but they had to let up on all the blanking so I could get the dissolve to work. From that direction of approach, I repeatedly was quite literally a mirage. I wasn't a something, I wasn't not a something, I was a fleeting thing that was something only in the eye of the beholder by a trick of light. I've been having some trouble with that tweak/switch being to easy to get to after all that practice all day, going all mirage in a meeting would not have been a great thing to do. Then I saw that bolded sentence above. It is technically a series of reactions to a complex non-standard pattern of muscle movements on the one hand, but it obviously isn't. So that's why I asked, what if you did know precisely how your yawn should be done because somebody helped you train your yawn muscles and bring then out of autonomia.

[shaberon]

I wonder if successful action is what happens when I learn something in my shaking, possibly.

Mandarava is there most times, there are those who resemble other Padmasambhava consorts, Yeshe Tsogyal, we discussed Kalasiddhi.



Yes, I think when you "get" these lessons, you may have one level of Outer, Inner, and Secret Meaning of Successful Action. As to whether due to the fact that there are muscles involved, is it Outer or Inner, I am not sure if I can say.

When we think of the Sangha, in the strictest sense it is the Historical Buddhas, and secondly, the Tulkus or incarnating or Manushi Bodhisattvas. It is like the esoteric of the Esoteric Community. Mandarava is part of that. And so it is not out of the question that one may have a past life as a friend of Mandarava, or a disciple in some lineage of hers. It is generally held to be the case that any type of self-arisen yogin has a karmic history with one of the Amnayas. What would it be like to be a friend of Mastyendra Nath, for example, and accomplish Yoga according to Nath tenets and then wonder why you are being sent to Kathmandu for the same thing with some more profound explanation.

Realistically, some of us must have a Klista Manas which is already a continuum to something like this.

It would be obnoxious for someone to come out of the woodwork and say "I was Milarepa" or something like that, but, it is fairly accurate to presume millions of incarnations are taken as impoverished nobodies, who, if anything, would have stood a better chance to be accepted in Vajrayana than in many other systems.

If I conceive of a tantric university system which stretched from Taxila to Borobodur, Java, for around seven hundred years, that is probably thousands if not millions more of potential nobodies that it reached and touched in some way.

If you add in the whole Mahayana then multiply that figure by who knows how much.

I admire what I know of Mandarava and see her as in a progression from Arrow Dakini, but, otherwise, have nothing near the closeness of her self-manifestation.

The closest I can come to a historical figure who seems to have a heavy hand in connecting the things I find meaningful, it would be Nagarjuna, but this becomes redundant since he actually is one of the main sources according to all our schools. So that is still not quite personal or direct. Guhyasamaja lineage is thought of as Vajradhara to Vajrapani to Nagarjuna. Following my own train of thought, this would be like saying I wrote it. I didn't, and I can't remember much of it at great length, but it is still a bit like I am sitting in a room doing it with those people. And then if I have Tara in mind as a Yidam, Nagarjuna started some of the most important ones of those. So I'm not leaving any time soon. Moreover, I see how Nagaraja will become involved, and this strongly helps push Janguli as the most intense form of enlightenment I am likely to be able to perceive any time soon. She does not have Completion Stage, but, she can become thoroughly loaded and saturated with most of the symbolism starting around Sarvadurgati Parishodana, and has Tri-kaya in her Six Arm Gold Matangi 117 version. Because it says this, which is unusual, she combines the Trinity symbolism with that of the more blatant Serpent Hood, at which point, as far as I am concerned, she has the whole Kalachakra Monogram, the Kabbalah, and the vast majority of Buddha Families symbolism that I can come up with, she engorges it. She is not Usnisa, she does not have or do some things, but she is a "round up" of a great many subjects, she crosses water or cures Water Poison from Ignorance, holds a Poison Flower and gives a Poison Kiss, attacking the Hindrances.

Nagaraja is Completion Stage or plans to use your triangular, stupa-like sun--crescent--bindu.

From what I recall, Mandarava is the most common thing from the shaking write-ups that sounds like someone who usually is a Guru. We have her sadhanas. If it was me, I would ask her is she the one or does she have anything to do with pointing me in the right direction. She cannot avoid being part of the Sangha and telling the truth. We have to avoid defiling it with obscurations.


If you are able to distinguish a Divine entity from these various "teaching" yoginis--who may be associated with the twenty-eight outer yoginis--and the Divine relates to the heart, this is good, it is close to the Akshobyavajra or other synonyms which are effective for the same thing. So it is a little different, less direct and frequent than things which are perhaps more physiological in nature.




I know these people are this way, but they are frequently not for me, although if I ever take it for granted that they'll be somehow nice, I get the full thing with the fangs and wrath and such.


It maybe is a sin in Jewel Family, it is assuming Equality as in "I am equal so you will respect me", and the answer is "Worldling, you are no equal to us". You have to prove equality, seriously, in order for it to be real and not imaginary. When you can show it, they will relent.

If you are the least bit intimated by the fangs and such, you proceed to sin in Karma Family, and when you realize them as empty phantoms, you are able to perform Wrathful tantra of Vajra Family.

Although I am not sure how they are applying the Three Jewels in a destructive manner, it is correct that beyond this throat to head bridging thing, the Three Jewels definitely have a tantric re-appearance other than refuge objects.

From the preceding Tara summary, we can see the real Tri-samadhi meditation is supposed to be done from a very sublime state.

That happens after we have done the business about expanding a Quintessence and pinning it to a Six Family Wheel--it is like a re-compression of this stuff into the Three Jewels or Trinity or Tri-kaya--now from or within Void.

This would pertain to Mahalakshmi's Non-dual Divine Gunas, and to the second sun or second fire, Agni as Unmanifest Three-in-One.

So the Tri-samadhi may be taught ritualistically, based around Sarvadurgati Parishodana, and it takes this outer-to-inner revelation to eventually do the "real" one on a plane like Tara is talking about.

The Nepalese Nine Families appears to add Mani, Dharma, and Karma--a second round after Jewel was originally Ratna, which is any gem or metal, Mani is a pearl or Naga Pearl. This particular thing being the subject of Manipadme; throat center.


Elizabeth English saw that Vajrayogini gives one sadhana of Vadiraj Manjushri, and has no clue why. I do. That is because it includes Pratisara as Manidhari, as she is in the baffling Pancha Raksa 206 which artists refuse to paint correctly.

Pratisara is considered to be particularly beneficial for the laity, i. e. non-monks. There is a male Sutra bodhisattva who has a similar name, but, Pratisara is Manidhari, and I am convinced that she has one of the most straightforward ways to conjure a standard fivefold assembly and then rake it with a transfer of reality to something closer to what the Vajra Mala is talking about.

Pratisara is among the first suggestions to attempt as a semi-Deity Yoga or Yidam, as an addition to Guru Yoga, when you would greet Guru, request the teaching, and banish him. You can do Purity mantra, arise a Moon Disk from emptiness with her syllable Pram and the syllable will start spinning and she emerges. Merge her lights just as you do the Guru's and give her Heart Mantra an auspicious number of times. This means her Three Places which means we use only three chakras, Om Ah Hum, as you see it is a "vertical" light system in all the standard Guru Meditations, long before there are Four Chakras and the three syllables become more of a "horizontal balance" in the three channels. So then when we find that someone like Charchika specifically makes a Jnana Chakra, we are able to position her as a transitional goddess, whose name means "Muttering", which is the new role of the syllables in balancing the channels, which is more relevant when the fourth chakra is "made". I would say she is unique in converting the Three Places of all basic visualizations to the tantric system of fire, wind, and mantra.

It says to start with Pratisara that simply, and she can get a little more profound. She is one of the few if not only one to use Gold Throat Light. In her simple white form, she is similar to Mrtyuvacana, but in the rare squatting pose which implies she is ready to jump across the universe. She is not all that difficult, until you look at 206 and reason it could be effective or relevant until one is powerful enough to raise and harness a fourteen arm Mantranusarini. That must mean...I don't know, but I am sure she plays in the league of millions of mantras.

Marici, Pratisara, and Grahamatrika are very powerful in Tathagata Family and can function as Bodhisattvas if not Prajnas. The first two are at least capable of also arising in Jewel Family. These would be close equivalents to Samantabhadri as a type of Sita Tara at the center of the throat jewel. The crude definition of her as this form does not really have any practices.

As an energetic dakini, White Buddha Dakini as used in the Five Dakinis mantra we posted a while back, or, White Akasha Dhatvishvari are also close. But again, Pratisara in her Sambhogakaya pants may also serve as the white center of a Quintessence:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/7/3/2/73293.jpg







The main "White Taras" in Sadhanamala do not portray Quintessence, they are Mrtyuvacana, Four Arm Sita, Six Arm Sukla, and White Janguli, who has a different kind of Three Places using her navel instead of heart.

Vajra Tara 110 has the only Akasha Dhatu, which makes a Jnana Mandala. This is after her Kaya Vajra and Citta Vajra, which is after Ten Paramitas and a Six Family Nyasa that lands Nairatma in her heart. Manjuvajra 83 is the only other place that seems to use this terminology and Three Vajras. Again, she is a gigantically occult deity, probably more difficult than Marici. But obviously she attaches to Hevajra Tantra as well as to the type of "Kaya Vajra" given below.

You move across this ocean of Akash into Voids, trying to remain lucid and accomplish the Three Jewels in that state.

There are two ways to resolve the Trinity, the first being given as Jewel merges with Lotus and Karma merges with Tathagatha. Those Five Families may be reduced to the Trinity by Ratnasambhava (Jewel) merges into Amitabha (Lotus) -- another meaning of the jewel in the lotus mantra. Amoghasiddhi (Karma) merges into Vairocana (Sun), who has the Chakra or Tathagatha (Buddha) Family, him, i. e. action merges with wisdom. So Vairocana, Amitabha, and Akshobya remain as the Trinity. Here, nothing else was used to merge with Akshobya, so it is only dealing with Five Families, related to the exoteric format, Om Manipadme Hum. But this mantra, itself, should be disclosing Six Families.

The same Trinity may also be resolved by switching those merges. This is in closer accord to vajra explanations. We want to be able to condense Six Families, and, one point of view for Namasangiti, suggests Vajrasattva "takes over" Karma Family (of Mantra and Vidya), and Amoghasiddhi enters a new Family and Wisdom--Mahamudra.

Three Vajras:

The Jewel Family may merge into the Tathagatha Family to form the Thunderbolt of Body, Kaya Vajra, and the Karma Family may merge into the Lotus Family to form the Thunderbolt of Speech, Vag Vajra.

The mind is Mahamudra Bodhicittavajra, or Akshobya plus vajra elements. Then, Mahamudra Amoghasiddhi merges into Akshobya; Vajra Family is Thunderbolt of Mind, Citta Vajra.

That could still work if you wish to identify Vajrasattva as his own or Jnana Family and Mahamudra. The main thing that distinguishes this from the common version is Jewel in Body. If Vajrasattva was Karma Family, that would closely match Lotus as Dharma Speech which is being done here. But Vajrasattva can be legitimately considered Mahamudra; so you can think of it either way and the end product is still the same. It has Karma in Lotus for Speech, Jewel in Tathagata for Body, and Akshobya is still Mind, and/or what with you may make of Mahamudra.

So this alternative Tri-kaya is not Jewel in Lotus or Om Mani-Padme Hum. It is Jewel in Tathagata--Sun--Form. Thunderbolt of Body.

Pratisara "is" Mamaki, but, she is mainly in Jewel and Tathagata Families, i. e. already carries the correspondence to Kaya Vajra.

We tend to lean towards Vajrasattva as the impulse or Cause, the beginning of Six Families, with the intent of attaching a transcendental Seventh. Most systems place him at the end as the Sixth. I personally use him as almost a CPU. The teachings say it is ok to generate a Yoga deity as Pride of the Deity. This means I think of a small lotus seat with Vajrasattva on top of my head. I can't really see it, but, I can feel it. And so this works in conjunction with an above-the-crown chakra.

The first consort in Guhyasamaja is Sparsha Vajra, which has two meanings, Touch, or, any contact between a sense and an object. To the extent it refers to Touch, it perhaps saying one is likely to physically feel the Yoga process before enhancing it with any other senses. That, perhaps, is the way this is "kind of the same" as Nath and similar practices, i. e., from that background, it seems I can certainly argue that I know what the Suksma Yoga stages feel like, and not much else.




The normal term for a "prong" of a Vajra is Suci, which name also means Agni as Solar Fire, it is also Needle as used by Marici, and when she absorbs Vajradhatvishvari, I would not hesitate to say "mercury rising" is also quite needle-like. Pranayama or making the winds enter the central is called Threading a Needle, Dharana or Retention is called preventing it from slipping out. Khasarpana 26 has moved Tara and replaced her with Vajradhatvishvari--what this may mean with respect to the fact that he is the first "sky goer" among male deities, I am not sure, but it does sound something like changing Air--Entire Surface--Touch to Air--Vital Wind.

In most of the higher tantras, we find Om--Vairocana has been pushed to the Earth plane, and Hum has moved to the center. This appears to reinforce the idea of universal solar power passing through us Noumenally and then via the core of the earth, reverberated as aftermath or objective planes or Talas, (usually) the Underworld, the manifest Hum.

So there is an ongoing occult interaction of sun-->person-->earth, which can be unveiled through Sound and Hum, and then a non-existent sun to person interaction, which can only be started, i. e. Marici or Vairocana or any solar relation to the highest samadhi. Vairocana or sun/light/vision (Sight Form) gets kicked into matter, or the earth element (Gross or Coarse Form), and Marici is clearly returning or pulling and filtering stuff from it, while more or less taking it over and paving it gold.

It is by doing an Unexcelled Void Meditation that afterwards, Vairocana is supposed to arise as Maha Sambhoga Kaya back through all the Families and such. That is why he has stages of Empty Niche Consort and then he moves and there is rotation of yoginis, and you do Tri-samadhi to a Yidam instead of a Dhyani Buddha.

[shaberon]

is milk ever nectar if coming from the right source?



It is a bit bewildering, as I collected any metaphor for Varuni without distinction.

I would say there is a difference between undifferentiated Akash and Nectar, and it is a little confusing, since Varuni imports Akash into ordinary liquid in order to make Nectar.

Akash itself is dual, has a higher and lower, parent and offspring. What we are likely to first "see" is physical akash or the fifth state of matter, or you could call it a sub-plane. With Dharma practice, it is possible to enter/penetrate the Akashic plane itself, i. e. the Voids. This is "body-less" as in it has no "body of light", it is utterly formless, one's existence is like breath. The Buddha Fields, Pure Lands, Akanistha, etc., are like the highest forms produced out of it, in the highest sub-plane of Kama Loka.

When I think of "milk" as in "milky way", or think of a diffused essence, I get akash, or Brahma Jyoti, divine effulgence. But as a product of a cow, or as Milk and Honey, then we are back to Nectar. Even that is a bit ambiguous, since nectar could be a bowl of impure substances, it could be their transformation, it could be the warm flow through the Vishuddha, or the ultimate synthetic product of Mercury. The main tenet is that Varuni "makes" Nectar by adding Sky-Element--Akash to ordinary liquid, and this is herself, so she "is" the Nectar once made.

The only way I can begin to comprehend Varuni and the movements or Family changes of Vajradhatvishvari is as a flow.

It only does us so much good to posit "there is an Akash", since ordinary beings will live and die in it without ever becoming aware, nothing is being collected, processed, or enjoyed, there is no flow, beyond it being a sub-stratum or aspect of Brahma linking the subconscious to the objective, which it can do perpetually behind its illusory parade of shapes and colors. The illusion will be believed, nothing of value is realized.

So when we talk about meditations generated from void, we are emulating and harnessing the tendency of void or Akash to produce forms, and the vast majority of these "spawn sequences" are "stacks", similar to the sun--crescent--bindu, but each of them is like a different flavor. That generator at the core of the head/palate is like the sun, and with certain meditations it is like I am creating and populating Jupiter, with others Venus, and so forth.

Jewel Family is the same way, it is hard to make a static picture, it too is a flow. The Prajna in this Family could be Mamaki, Locana, or Vajradhatvishvari. It specifically has one tantra, Vajramrita, which still mostly remains behind the curtains, unpublished. However, it has a slew of sadhanas, mainly as Vasudhara and Vajra Tara, and then apparently Vilasini--Padma Jalini.

Varuni is a Jewel who arises from the Ocean of Milk, and then her manifestation seems more closely related to Lotus Family and she continues in the tantras as Khandaroha, which means permanently.

Varuni may use the background "milky way" milk to make Milk and Honey as one's nectar. Entirely possible. She has to use the "background milk" to make something, whatever it is, or rather it would be among the traditional associations to a special beverage, Wine or Soma. In the Nepalese ritual, it is always called Thapi or Alcohol, and the actual substance is tea. Even there, it is stages or phases, since that is an external beverage, there is also a mental or visualized one, and then the "actualized" one inside one's body/aura.

A person could obviously take the external ritual beverage all their life without realizing the benefits of the tantric one.

When you have the ability to gather Akash and make a working end-product of any kind, you have soared over most of this.

You are already able to manifest Kurukulla appropriately, who, from what I can tell, is mostly about penetrating the throat/revitalizing the head with akash/increasing the emitted nectar from a drop and small drops to a cascade back through the throat. This may be possible without Tara--which is a specifically Buddhist way of attaining Kurukulla--but it is not possible without Varuni, even if not known by name or appearance.

Furthermore, that level of intensity is not possible without Varuni having conveyed Vairocani into activity.

So I think you have the majority of inner realization which would stitch right into either of our main higher tantric branches of Chakrasamvara or Hevajra, or actually both; lacking a good three month retreat to train in something like this, then they can largely be characterized as Marici and Ekajati. This is evident by the very simple kinds of Tara, such as Nagarjuna's Khadiravani, accompanied by those two, and then they are also closely paralelled by Vairocani and Varnani as well.

I am not sure what to say about heightened awareness in "blind" muscles to such fine detail.

I believe it is the case that, on an individual basis, when you have someone with an eye injury, part of their spiritual progress is going to work differently than for others, the same thing being true emotionally, there are different kinds of psychic injuries.

And so if we are not Bodhisattvas but only have some partial realization and are eager to find some reason to convince us we are on a Bhumi of any kind, I do ask myself those sorts of questions about why inner or esoteric development may seem so different and yet be part of the same package. That is why the passage from Vajra Rosary struck me, since it made a "handshake" between an aspect related to Death and the Vajra Kaya with an aspect that emphasized the throat and flowing nectar. Those were the only two things, no other aspect was mentioned as being relevant to that conjunction.

Seems obvious to me that is very much like our two stories. I am willing to confirm there is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Throat, but, mostly as just a feeling, without any details. I know it as a sensation as part of a series of sensations that lead to what I could only describe as Gnosis of Death and Vajra Kaya. I acquired this in a very direct way that is like Hamsa or Breath Yoga, to the point where the time or preparation necessary to melt the white bodhicitta was one breath. I know that I could quash the sadhanas and just "go there". But now I see that as inadequate, there are reasons to build foundations and slow it down, in fact this has just been presented as approximately half of the teaching which is intended to join what I already know. Very similar to the reason why I couldn't get much from a large Vajrayogini ritual.

That is why I will do a long, slow process involving samayas with various Vasudharas and things like that. If I live long enough, eventually it may open those other vistas which I have mostly read about.

The problem I personally have which is related to tension from an injury is more or less versus the entire right half of me.

If you believe in foot reflexology, it is probably something like that.

I was training in martial arts when I was about thirteen which was a long time ago, and the sensei I had at the time was explaining a new self-defense weapon called a kubotan, which is just a segment of a stick, that was intended to attach discretely to a key ring. The segment is just slightly wider than a fist, so just a small portion protrudes. He said you would use it to jab someone in the pressure points. To demonstrate its effectiveness, he, of course, pegged me, and the point involved was the one in the instep, the joint just past the ankle.

He did not hit it very hard, but it hurt like hell and turned my leg off.

The whole nerve has never worked right since then. I can feel the whole path, which has lost most of the life wind going to a few toes, resulting in a permanent tension all the way through the leg, and then I can feel it twist into the body, tearing at the right side of the solar plexus, and right shoulder and arm. Fortunately the discomfort ends there, but, it seems to exaggerate some cluster of related psychic difficulties.

I spent a lot of time watching how humans accumulate tension in the jaw, for example, you find yourself going around with your jaw clenched and learn how to stop it. I have negated almost all of this, except for the armpits, a little bit. The thing from the foot injury is a lot stronger and does not care about my "relax" messages.

Overall, I probably do have an above-average body awareness, but still pretty far from micro management of things most people don't know we have.

That changes when you get to the subject of the Avadhut. I am positive that it does not just feel nice and have the capability to emit bliss from the head into the body, but that this continues to operate in a cycle where it will again change natures and then ascend to something not of this world.

[Old Student]

And so it is not out of the question that one may have a past life as a friend of Mandarava, or a disciple in some lineage of hers. It is generally held to be the case that any type of self-arisen yogin has a karmic history with one of the Amnayas. What would it be like to be a friend of Mastyendra Nath, for example, and accomplish Yoga according to Nath tenets and then wonder why you are being sent to Kathmandu for the same thing with some more profound explanation.

This is an interesting explanation. The question might be whether the combination of ones pasts and the combinations of the futures of a Mandarava or a Nath flowed close to each other in the present, like you say, there are lots of descendants and lots of ancestors. Mandarava and Yeshe Tsogyal have emanations later as Niguma and Sukhasiddhi, some versions of things make those two related not as closely but related.


If I conceive of a tantric university system which stretched from Taxila to Borobodur, Java, for around seven hundred years, that is probably thousands if not millions more of potential nobodies that it reached and touched in some way.

There is a heavy "bias" in my shakings to events in or people who passed through or learned from people in Khotan. They were major translators for the whole Buddhist world for centuries so that leaves things pretty wide open, but the greater Khotan area also includes the Tsongkha, and also includes North Eastern Tibet, and Mahabahar (Balkh/Bactria).


From what I recall, Mandarava is the most common thing from the shaking write-ups that sounds like someone who usually is a Guru. We have her sadhanas. If it was me, I would ask her is she the one or does she have anything to do with pointing me in the right direction. She cannot avoid being part of the Sangha and telling the truth. We have to avoid defiling it with obscurations.

These kinds of things are hard to ask, but I could try. If so, she's like a general contractor, she puts others in charge of training for things that are theirs and not her specialty.


It says to start with Pratisara that simply, and she can get a little more profound. She is one of the few if not only one to use Gold Throat Light. In her simple white form, she is similar to Mrtyuvacana, but in the rare squatting pose which implies she is ready to jump across the universe.

This I have to give some thought to. Her principal arms are a sword and a dharmachakra, right? I've seen this only once, someone who showed up just before the new one who pulls the threads, and hasn't been around since. She was not in her squating stance but was standing, the squatting stance I have seen separately, but as a prelude to being put into a flying pose to practice something in my sleep (which happens fairly often on long hard lessons).


The Jewel Family may merge into the Tathagatha Family to form the Thunderbolt of Body, Kaya Vajra, and the Karma Family may merge into the Lotus Family to form the Thunderbolt of Speech, Vag Vajra.

The mind is Mahamudra Bodhicittavajra, or Akshobya plus vajra elements. Then, Mahamudra Amoghasiddhi merges into Akshobya; Vajra Family is Thunderbolt of Mind, Citta Vajra.



These are interesting threes, especially this one. Mahamudra is from the tantras about the mind or from the highest accomplishment of Karmamudra practice? I am never quite sure because it sometimes seems like both.

[Old Student]

When I think of "milk" as in "milky way", or think of a diffused essence, I get akash, or Brahma Jyoti, divine effulgence. But as a product of a cow, or as Milk and Honey, then we are back to Nectar. Even that is a bit ambiguous, since nectar could be a bowl of impure substances, it could be their transformation, it could be the warm flow through the Vishuddha, or the ultimate synthetic product of Mercury. The main tenet is that Varuni "makes" Nectar by adding Sky-Element--Akash to ordinary liquid, and this is herself, so she "is" the Nectar once made.

So in some sense a joining of liquids with space to create and be Nectar? This sounds very much like the juxtaposition that bliss and emptiness have during shaking -- bliss, even when it's fiery or empty, is still very much liquid, and is often things like milk or other fluids, emptiness is always kind of empty and huge (that doesn't sound very specific, but it feels like it goes on and on).


You are already able to manifest Kurukulla appropriately, who, from what I can tell, is mostly about penetrating the throat/revitalizing the head with akash/increasing the emitted nectar from a drop and small drops to a cascade back through the throat. This may be possible without Tara--which is a specifically Buddhist way of attaining Kurukulla--but it is not possible without Varuni, even if not known by name or appearance.

In the (very) recent decompose shakings, she sets up my clear body to be able to decompose. The decompose is from a switch-like place that is, I guess the best way to say it is co-located at my heart, since while it's happening my heart center is part of the darkness but it's in the same place. It's her jewel at my throat which is the net. But the current way of doing things makes that come out last instead of first.


I am not sure what to say about heightened awareness in "blind" muscles to such fine detail.

It's like they come out of the box being a pre-programmed synthesizer that only plays one tune, and the Dakinis can show how to make the thing play other things or in some cases improvise. Those other tunes are like having other beings able to use the same musculature to do things an instinctual human doesn't do.


I believe it is the case that, on an individual basis, when you have someone with an eye injury, part of their spiritual progress is going to work differently than for others, the same thing being true emotionally, there are different kinds of psychic injuries.

[...]

Seems obvious to me that is very much like our two stories. I am willing to confirm there is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Throat, but, mostly as just a feeling, without any details. I know it as a sensation as part of a series of sensations that lead to what I could only describe as Gnosis of Death and Vajra Kaya. I acquired this in a very direct way that is like Hamsa or Breath Yoga, to the point where the time or preparation necessary to melt the white bodhicitta was one breath. I know that I could quash the sadhanas and just "go there". But now I see that as inadequate, there are reasons to build foundations and slow it down, in fact this has just been presented as approximately half of the teaching which is intended to join what I already know. Very similar to the reason why I couldn't get much from a large Vajrayogini ritual.

That's really impressive, I have these 'tweak/switches' that can do something like that which might be able to do something like that so quickly, but I don't have total control or access to them, to work them up when I don't takes sometimes hours of shaking.

On the injury, my eye is healing, but the docs say it will be a while, it does not affect my shaking but does make it harder to read without strain right now because that eye doesn't currently see sharp blacks.


He did not hit it very hard, but it hurt like hell and turned my leg off.

The whole nerve has never worked right since then. I can feel the whole path, which has lost most of the life wind going to a few toes, resulting in a permanent tension all the way through the leg, and then I can feel it twist into the body, tearing at the right side of the solar plexus, and right shoulder and arm. Fortunately the discomfort ends there, but, it seems to exaggerate some cluster of related psychic difficulties.

I actually have both kinds of injuries, and the shaking can be therapeutic and cure some things and other things it doesn't do anything for. I can shake-cure pretty much any migraine or other kind of headache now, I get them but I can "unravel" them in minutes. I have some nerve pathologies, they are not affected by shaking one way or the other, they are permanent.

But I did have a permanent injury and pain to a rotator cuff, and made that one completely go away. I don't know what the difference is. But on that one, the nerve would pinch, and now it doesn't, which is quite different than having a permanently injured nerve fix or replace itself.

Does it have an effect on spiritual direction? I don't know.

[shaberon]

These are interesting threes, especially this one. Mahamudra is from the tantras about the mind or from the highest accomplishment of Karmamudra practice? I am never quite sure because it sometimes seems like both.

Yes, there are Four Seals.

Four mudras (Skt. catumudrā; Wyl. phyag rgya bzhi) — in the yoga tantra and inner tantras, there are four types of mudra which 'seal' the enlightened body, speech, mind and activity of the deity. The four mudras are:

the great mudra (Skt. mahāmudrā; Wyl. phyag rgya chen po)
the dharma mudra (Skt. dharmamudrā; Wyl. chos kyi phyag rgya)
the samaya mudra (Skt. samayamudrā; Wyl. dam tshig gi phyag rgya)
the activity mudra (Skt. karmamudrā; Wyl. las kyi phyag rgya)

Or alternatively:

the dharma mudra (Skt. dharmamudrā; Wyl. chos kyi phyag rgya)
the great mudra (Skt. mahāmudrā; Wyl. phyag rgya chen po)
the primordial wisdom mudra (Skt. jñanamudrā; Wyl. ye shes phyag rgya)
the activity mudra (Skt. karmamudrā; Wyl. las kyi phyag rgya)

Depending on the context, the four mudras or gestures (phyag rgya bzhi) are to unite with the four syllables dza, hum, bam, and ho, which stand for the four actions of summoning (’gug), binding (bching), fettering (sdom), and pleasing (mnyes) or intoxicating (myos)

[Hook, Noose, Chain, Bell]

Those are basically the Four Activities, the last, Bell, being the Seal of Seals--meaning for instance you do a cycle of Activity which becomes Karma Mudra, at another time you do it resulting in Samaya Mudra, and so on, up to Mahamudra. Each time, the bell rings out the unstruck sound of the wisdom of emptiness sought in the rite, cementing it into the mind.

Mahamudra is like a combined intensity with a lot of dwelling in a wordless or thoughtless condition. It is the spine of Kagyu and all the famous teachers like Maitri and the others. I think of myself much more as a Mahamudra devotee than as a member of a sect; I have not interacted with the human Sangha in about twenty years.

Mahamudra is the ultimate philosophy, and Karma Mudra is the first step in the series, which is the most sexual. It is the onset of bliss. And so at this point, sexual enjoyment could be described as "recommended", but not really required. This type of yoga chiefly comes from Sabara who only had partial realization when he transmitted it, and so it is considered relevant for the first one to possibly three stages. Mahamudra is defined as requiring functional genitals. At some point, that same passion has to be re-aimed at Dharma itself. The drive still has to be there.

The neatest classification for the Sixth Family so far is that it can be named Jnana, its sin is Sakkaya Ditthi or belief in a self or ego in anything having to do with any Skandhas, and violates the Third Noble Truth by saying the Path is not important or the Path does not apply to me. By distilling this skandha of skandhas, one awakens Mahamudra Wisdom. This is the Family whose symbol is the Bell, whose Prajna is Vajrasattvatmika (composed of Vajrasattva), Vajra Gharvi (Divine Ego), or Vajra Ghanta (Bell), with the Bodhisattva Ghanta Pani.

Dakinis are supposed to grant you these seals and do the initiations, it is the female or goddess who is "all of this", the experience itself.

The terms or phrases are of course taught ritualistically in the lower tantras along with hand gestures, but it is desirable to get at the Mahamudra philosophy. I think for the most part, it is allright to use Vajrasattva as the "starting point", or first, but there could feasibly a thing like a regular Five Family ritual which results in a "bigger" Vajrasattva last.

The upright triangle in the head which will be used by Nagaraja is the male or upright triangle of the Hexagram--Jnana. This is interlaced to the Three Gunas of the downward female triangle.

Sadhanamala only deals with the large Pratisara, whose main item is a Sword, and an Axe or Noose. In 206, however, she may be in Tathagata Family, because she is crowned by a Caitya and her main item is Chakra. It seems to have skipped her left arms entirely, but we can tell her main item has changed here.

The simple white one is Sakya Pandita lineage, with Sword and a White Chakra, the normal Three Places, and is mantricly identical to Manidhari. But everything she carries is a weapon on either form. Is she wearing a pearl necklace? Not evidently. Sadhanamala Pratisara is a Lalita Ksepa or "throws her limbs with abandon" like Trailkoya Ksepa Hevajra. It is not all that unusual, being also done by a few Lokeshvaras, Manjushris, Taras, and Janguli.

Tibetan Deities 216 says the simple white one is from Panjara Tantra, is crowned by Vairocana, and emanates countless Manjughoshas. I can't find much about her having any kind of particular jewels, other than her large yellow solo form is crowned by Ratna. I would think Fruit Picker Vasudhara (Cintamani Tara) would fit the name, by plucking and offering wish-fulfilling gem fruits from the Wish Fulfilling Tree, there are others where it would be appropriate, but Pratisara is Manidhari regardless of form.





Seeing it again, this is why I question some of the mantras, which are perhaps written down from a spoken source. For Guhyajnana, Rinjung Gyatsa has Bhuma Bhaye (Earth Fear), Tibetan Deities has Dhuma Gaye (Smoke House), neither one of which seems to fit. For Ziro Bhusana, we can compare:

Om Dukha Yenama (which is obviously erroneous)

Om Dukhaye Nama

I am still wondering if these were Tibetan dum skyes, or dum skyes ma, and they tried to transliterate into Sanskrit.

Yes, I might take that as a good metaphor for Guru, a general contractor. Even if it was some guy down the street that I actually know, he would have to be viewed as fully enlightened, and, by extension, able to contract his enlightening power through any Yidam. I think that principle is about the same, whether applied to Vajradhara, Mandarava, or a living person.

I do not know much about Khotan, but it is believed the only surviving evidence of Gandhari language is with Arapacana Manjushri. I am sure the Khotanese region at least up to Moggao was for a time quite functional in Dharma practice. I don't really speculate on past lives, it is one of those things that at some point will simply be seen.

I have gotten close to that direction, I have gone into the subconscious and touched things that happened to my parents when they were kids that made them angry or upset, or, rather, these things were "presented" to me. It was alongside of a weird dual natal memory, part of which was being an embryo, and the other part being like a person flying around the neighborhood looking for a suitable rebirth. I have gone that far back in a manner that seemed less delusional, more accurate, than various daydreams usually are.

I have been told a few things, by other people, which were a bit creepy and seemed less reliable, if I see something similar, I might just be looking at their idea, instead of the actual scene. So I don't really trust any of the stuff about other lives.

But if you are able to understand esoteric philosophy, or, perform Yoga in an unusually advanced manner, some kind of prior contact is practically certain.

The Three Vajras are interesting and not quite the same as the Three Jewels or the Three Families of Kriya. If it was a simple as "There is a Trinity, Amen", we would just say that and be done with it. But it is more like there is an alchemical laboratory, from which, a Trinity is created, Noumenally. I am not yet sure what it means for Jewel Family to merge into Tathagata Family, since it is difficult to ascertain what Jewel Family is. I suppose one can see Vairocana--Locana going out into the Earth sphere, and this must relate to Nirmana Chakra and I suppose the Nirmanakaya is the closest thing to a "Kaya Vajra" or a divine or Buddha body, these Vajras being synonymous to Tri-kaya.

Varuni is the addition of Akash, Sunya or Void, or Prajna, into a liquid.

In tantric terms, applying Method, or the Father, is what causes sambhogakaya yoginis to produce Bliss.

At first, Method is Upaya, means, or skill in action, and eventually it is Karuna, which is the same thing, driven by realization of the Universe Lotus of Compassion.

Bliss is therfor a product, which, itself, becomes an asset and aid, towards Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi.

I have not heard of something that would enumerate sixteen blisses like there are sixteen kinds of voidness.

The Cup is called Bliss. Sukha Bharati, Sukha Vardhani, and Mahasukha Bharati. Is this a flow from Bliss to a functional Mahasukha Chakra? Probably so. If I discard tantric subjects until they force their appearance, if I ignore Union for as long as possible, it is over. Vasudhara plays a lust game with Jambhala and they run around getting naked and go at it. They act out rather graphically the whole change from Embrace to Union. I can't stop them. Bharati is like this.

Exactly why it is the Cup that portrays this increase, rather than the liquid, I am not sure. It probably says in Vajra Rosary.

In my experience, a side benefit to whatever I am doing is like the aura is a force field. I do not get headaches, I do not get bored, I do not have body aches, I am highly resistant to diseases, I have taken one whole, actual, sick day in working for over thirty years. Most of the things people complain about have no effect on me mentally or physically. I have been very, very fortunate that the injuries I have had were never all that serious, and many things that have happened in cars missed disaster by inches. I have only figured out in the past couple of years there is such a thing as a Protector practice, and it seems to me like something is already there and all I can do is name it White Mahasri.

It is also the case that, when I was born, I tried to learn to speak, but the vocabulary that I was looking for was that of the Mahayana cosmos. I certainly believe in Dharma beings, such as Protectors, or the esoteric Sangha, from that time, or, I have no way to really describe any period of time when this did not seem to be reality. It took me a long time to learn that there was such a thing as Ignorance that believes in the illusory samsara.

If you have figured out a repeatable way to "unravel" a headache, that is probably close to what I am talking about, except perhaps I unravel all the time, and it never starts. That's one of the things I tell myself--I don't have time to get sick. I don't have time to be in a wreck today. This has always seemed effective on the things it specifically relates to, or Protects. It won't really affect anything else. I have tons of time for all kinds of stupid goof-off sins, but, they at least fall within the realm of safety.

The celestrum is moving around in the ceiling, it is on the left about 75% of the time, sometimes on the right, but for a while yesterday it was overhead. That is probably how it should go. I don't know how it got there. It is not a muscle, that I know of, or any type of habit I could change. As far as I can tell, it is a transmutation of those various garbage sounds that were mildly disturbing for a few years--none of those have happened again, and this one is fairly incessant. The only way I could have possibly affected it was mind-only, except I never thought about it.

Similarly, if I am not sensitive to dakinis and most other things like that, I perhaps am a bit close to Gandharvas. I cannot visualize any better than an average person, but I can spontaneously hear music--as instruments, not singing--it can flow naturally, or be shaped. But this is of the mind, different from the manifest sound, which is as plain as anything physical, except nothing is there.

In Sadhanamala, "simple" Sita Tara could be either of two which both have Varada and Utpala. Both have a version of an Eight-Spoked Heart Wheel with eight syllables of her mantra (not including Svaha):

Nagarjuna's Vajra Tara:

svahṛdi sitam aṣṭāracakraṃ vicintya
araṃ prati aṣṭau akṣarān vibhāvya madhye svāhākāraṃ dattvā
japet, manasā vācayen mantraṃ oṃ tāre tuttāre ture svāhā

Mrtyuvacana Sitara:

dhyātvā' 'ryatārāṃ hṛdaye tasyāścakraṃ sitadyuti /
aṣṭakoṣṭakam aṣṭābhirakṣaraiḥ paripūritam //

The first has Vajra Feet, the second almost does but she is Abaddha Vajra Paryanka. This is tricky, because abaddha would usually be "unbound", but, in this case, it is probably a past participle for using a Baddha or knees cloth like Varuni. Only instance of it in the book.

[shaberon]

I made another technical error.

In Namasangiti, Mahamudra is not a Wisdom, it is a Family. Amoghasiddhi does appear to enter this family, however, it is attached to the fifth, or Dharmadhatu Wisdom, and the form of Arapacana Manjushri.

The sixth is Vairocana; the Vajradhatu mandala expands into the Maha Vajradhatu mandala; Namasangiti becomes Prajnajnanamurti, which is recognized as Name Initiation. I am not sure if it has a specific name for the Wisdom; it is about arising in Maha Sambhoga Kaya after having dissolved the voids. These initiations are styled after Buddha; of the Name Initiation:

Bestowed on him by Buddhas of the Ten Directions who revealed the steps of the fourth Abhisambodhi. He dissolved the three voids, and the Prabhasa (brilliance) of the Absolute Object came into direct view. He emerged in an Illusory Body, or Diamond Body, was given the name Bodhisattva Vajradhatu and the mantra Vajratmako 'Ham (I consist of Vajra).


Buddha was not really a Buddha until the Tathagatas appeared, snapped their fingers at him, and said, Gautama, your austerities are inadequate for the purpose.

The Mahamudra is not that difficult to contact. In Guru Yoga, we do the individual lights of Guru's Three Places, and then, all three radiate simultaneously, I receive the fourth empowerment, enabling me to realize Mahamudra and the Svabhavika Kaya, which is the unity of the Three Kayas.

So Guru Yoga is a minor look at four empowerments or seals, given as Vase, Secret, Wisdom, and fourth or Mahamudra in one version I use. Vase is the name for the first empowerment or initiation in pretty much any system, and when successful, it should be "sealed", so the list of seals does go with empowerments. There are slight variations, but, any of them conveys this four-fold rhythm, which is in conjunction with the Four Activities, which are the Gatekeepers in all the tantras.

The Three Places cannot be too tantric since it ignores the navel, and asks Nirmanakaya to arise from Om of the head. Well, really, if you do it right, it doesn't say "I have Nirmanakaya", or, "Give me Nirmanakaya", it just gives me the opportunity to learn and realize it. At this basic level, it is more like asking Guru for his guidance, and in the tantras it becomes more complex and involves yoginis.

Whether Namasangiti should be allowed to re-build Amoghasiddhi is challenging, but, this style would let him remain as the fifth Dhyani, in a position that Vairocana is said to "vacate" until arising as Maha Vairocana. In Guhyasamaja, Amoghasiddhi had to offer up his Touch Goddess or Sparsha Vajra first, and this drastic change to something as basic as a Sense is already somewhat challenging.

Smrti Jnanakirti, one of the oldest commentators ca. 900s says that in the relevant Namasangiti chapter, Yoni links it to Tathagata Garbha, which allows the meaning to transfer off of Vairocana.

The Namasangiti itself is said to be part of Guhyagarbha Mayajala Tantra, and is said to "contain" Kalachakra.

It is a bit obscure, but, that delves right at the issue of what happened to our five-fold form unit when it is said to undergo a metamorphosis attaching it to a six-fold unit more strongly related to mind. All of the tantric systems seem to agree that Vairocana abandons his default role and goes on a sabbatical or something until there is an ability to arise as Maha Vairocana, which requires dissolving the voids. Since this cannot fail to operate via Gnosis, then, he keeps his Family, but operates more according to the sixth principle.

Correspondingly, the progress from Three Places to Four Chakras takes White Om--Head--Nirmanakaya--Body, and pushes it to the navel and turns it yellow. At first, our "fourth" unit is only seen as a combination of the three, and when this starts to manifest as Svabhavika Kaya, it is like an "activated" Vajrasattva, who is no longer just purifying, but operates gnosticly or noumenally.

So Guru Yoga is already a bit of a "gate", as one should be in the basic format of Three Places until the Mahamudra really takes hold. Of course, there are many deities who have the basic Three Places, and so that is why ones like Prajnaparamita and Pratisara can be "thrown forward" a little bit into early practice. That is why the fundamental progression of Deity Yoga related to Inverted Stupa makes sense to me as Bindu-Nada with Prajnaparamita, Crescent using Pratisara, and then Triangle using Guhyajnana Dakini, Vajrayogini, and definitive tantric principles such as Charchika and Ghasmari.

This is a large, scripturally-based parallel of something like non-duality explained directly by dakinis, it is in the principle of Mahamudra which will compress previous lessons "below the threshhold" and expand what comes next. I never really have to change Guru's Three Places, and it will be someone else who shows Four and then more.

[Old Student]

shaberon, I will answer your posts, I have my notes in front of me now, so I will post this separately, from my notes from shaking last night. It comes at a point almost four hours into a four hour shaking, the first three hours of which were preparatory. Two remarks: I don't usually get to ask questions, and, they don't usually answer them unless they are about the execution of exactly what is happening at hand. So this is unusual.


Mandarava identified and held. I was still in two thirds disintegrated, I was locked in her pose and streaming through myself with streaks of bliss moving up and down my clear body. She held far longer than the other two had, my body fully accommodated remaining in her pose and she worked the area where the threads had been pulled and stood on the upper of the two horns filled with bliss. She seemed to be cutting something or digging at something.
I had had a question for her, we seemed to be going to work together for quite a while, so I asked her if she was my guru. She laughed – an amused laugh not a joyous one, although they are somewhat the same – and yanked at the place she was working. The dissolve, embodied in the form of an enormous glob of the “milk” from the plane, the consistency of yogurt or more accurately the consistency of the “cream-top” on certain organic milk products, tore loose, very thick, and slopped down on the root of my tongue and quickly surged down into the jewel. The reason I say it was the dissolve is because it embodied the dissolve and it landed on me and I dissolved, and remained “coated” with dissolve, and in the dissolve while she spoke. It was white, it was sweet like cream and I was completely covered with it and completely dissolved into it. She began to whirl me around, and said, “I make Dakinis. If I’m your guru I must be making a Dakini. Did you want to be a Dakini? Here, we’ll make you a Dakini.” And I whirled into complete whiteness of the cream or a completely blazing white light space, and twirled and danced and became a silver skinned dakini in the sense that I looked completely like a dakini statue made of bright polished silver and dancing and was that statue. I heard more laughter. Then she said, “Well if you’re a Dakini, you work for me. Be at work at 7am tomorrow, sharp.” And laughed some more and then released me.
Which I took to mean, “Odd question,” and the obvious, “You? A Dakini?”, and also, “Yes and no, but don’t put things in that box.” The last was from the feeling that accompanied this, and from the “proof” that she could make me a dakini, I had a female clear body which would work. And the final thing was a, “be careful what you wish for.”

[Old Student]

Mahamudra is the ultimate philosophy, and Karma Mudra is the first step in the series, which is the most sexual. It is the onset of bliss. And so at this point, sexual enjoyment could be described as "recommended", but not really required. This type of yoga chiefly comes from Sabara who only had partial realization when he transmitted it, and so it is considered relevant for the first one to possibly three stages. Mahamudra is defined as requiring functional genitals. At some point, that same passion has to be re-aimed at Dharma itself. The drive still has to be there.

This (and the rest of the explanation) clears things up for me considerably, thank you. Reading through this, I can pretty easily say that this para describes the bliss that I first started with. I did not know what to call it originally, and had for a while called it OLB (for "orgasm-like bliss"). Once it kind of became the currency of the realm with shaking -- that the shaking would sort of "fail" if it had none -- I began to shorthand it as bliss. Once I started reading more, the term bliss seemed more and more the right term to use, I began to use it if and when I had to use some term with the Dakinis, they did not have a problem with it (although they are very malleable if something is better understood using a different word for things).

But over the now years, it has differentiated and so I am stuck with kind of a personal vocabulary of bliss resembling the fabled Inuit thirty words for snow. But at root, no matter whether some bliss of mine is fiery like Tummo or cold and liquid, or grainy and cellular or whatever, at root it is bliss as strong and somehow as "life-creating" as "ordinary" sexual orgasm. I put up some of my notes today, they use the term for streaks going up my body. They are different colors, and they feel different in the different colors, and they come from different places, and at the time they are occurring there is fiery cellular bliss in the background. But each streak, maybe each point of each streak, feels underlying it like its own, extremely intense orgasm.

I can understand that there need to be "functioning genitals". I also know that I can have one of those under my fingernail, in the corner of my eyelid, or at my carina, just as easily at this point, but that one big difference is that they are all "in service" to the shaking with the Dakinis, and not just a feel good source of kicks.


Sadhanamala Pratisara is a Lalita Ksepa or "throws her limbs with abandon"...

I have a solid picture of this in my mind, it's good to have a word for it.


I have not heard of something that would enumerate sixteen blisses like there are sixteen kinds of voidness.
[...]
Exactly why it is the Cup that portrays this increase, rather than the liquid, I am not sure. It probably says in Vajra Rosary.
On the other hand, there must be some way that the sixteen kinds of voidness feel different.

I do not know either, obviously, why it would be the cup, but for me for something like that, the cauldron, it would be because the liquid was the phenomenon and the cauldron would be that which perceives.


The first has Vajra Feet, the second almost does but she is Abaddha Vajra Paryanka. This is tricky, because abaddha would usually be "unbound", but, in this case, it is probably a past participle for using a Baddha or knees cloth like Varuni. Only instance of it in the book.

The digging I did came up with an 'abaddha parnmuka' which the translator called, "clothed in greenery". Vajraparyanka is a mudra, it's Bhumiparsa. So nothing much to indicate either way.

[Old Student]

Smrti Jnanakirti, one of the oldest commentators ca. 900s says that in the relevant Namasangiti chapter, Yoni links it to Tathagata Garbha, which allows the meaning to transfer off of Vairocana.

The Namasangiti itself is said to be part of Guhyagarbha Mayajala Tantra, and is said to "contain" Kalachakra.

This is interesting, I would not have thought all these things were related from the readings I did, so I obviously haven't begun read enough to touch these interrelations.


Correspondingly, the progress from Three Places to Four Chakras takes White Om--Head--Nirmanakaya--Body, and pushes it to the navel and turns it yellow. At first, our "fourth" unit is only seen as a combination of the three, and when this starts to manifest as Svabhavika Kaya, it is like an "activated" Vajrasattva, who is no longer just purifying, but operates gnosticly or noumenally.

So Guru Yoga is already a bit of a "gate", as one should be in the basic format of Three Places until the Mahamudra really takes hold. Of course, there are many deities who have the basic Three Places, and so that is why ones like Prajnaparamita and Pratisara can be "thrown forward" a little bit into early practice. That is why the fundamental progression of Deity Yoga related to Inverted Stupa makes sense to me as Bindu-Nada with Prajnaparamita, Crescent using Pratisara, and then Triangle using Guhyajnana Dakini, Vajrayogini, and definitive tantric principles such as Charchika and Ghasmari.

Is all of this in the Namasangiti? There is at least a small piece of something that resembles Vajrasattva in the notes I put up today. Lama Yeshe has a preliminary purification with Vajrasattva and consort, in which milk comes forth from them and streams down through the body like yogurt and washes one clean of impurities and defilements (and leaves as bugs and vermin, I recall). In that, he/she sit on a pedestal on a dharmodaya that is from the ears to the "third eye" point. Only the yogurt streaming down and the placement of where they stream from match what happened in my notes, but it was still notable.

[shaberon]

Very well.

No, Guru Yoga per se is not from Namasangiti.

Here is a rough comparison:

Guhyasamaja = "Esoteric Community"

Namasangiti = "Chanting the Names Together"

Namasangiti as we know it is 160 verses that are memorized and chanted together in Nepal publicly every day.

The only way to understand it is that it is made of tiny seeds that "expand", it is a lattice of algorithms which expand throughout the Tantras. In this way, it is even said to contain all of Buddha's teachings, all 84,000 Dharmas. I do not really know it. Most of the teaching is always in the Commentaries. Without these, a lot of it would be indecipherable.


The main middle part of Namasangiti is known to be six, and allowed by Smrti and Bu-ston the compiler of the Tibetan canon, to be seven, forms of Manjushri, in a sort of increasing complexity. The first is Manjuvajra which is "Manjushri in the aspect of Vajrasattva" which causes him to turn Saffron in color, having a few independent sadhanas, generating a large Yoga mandala which uses Twenty-six arm Cunda, and also serving as an alternative center for Guhyasamaja. The main or probably 80% majority of Guhyasamaja lineages use Akshobyavajra; a minority use Manjuvajra, which minority is also the same that emphasizes Yoga Tantra, such as Jnanapada, Anandagarbha, Nyan Lotsawa, and Bu-ston taught as much more important than the Kriya and Charya tantras (which were only necessary in order for Yoga to start working and making sense), and more relevant than the higher tantras to most aspirants, i. e., a similar view that just giving Guhyasamaja Empowerment to somebody has little to do with whether they can actually do it. There is also an Atisha lineage which uses Lokeshvaravajra. In other words there is a way to do Guhyasamaja from any of the Three Families of Om Ah Hum, Tathagata, Lotus, or Vajra. And so you already have a whole stack of tantras, which are represented in Namasangiti by a few paragraphs, which are then summarized in a Name, which is part of the Name Mantra. Like Twenty-one Taras, the thing is like throwing a match in a box of skyrockets, and everything starts amplifying everything else.

I have not even begun to look at what Manjushri does with the Three Places and/or other chakras, but, as we see, he can serve as Vajrasattva, and, in Nepal certainly, he is Adi Buddha or Vajradhara, which is fine, since Vajradhara is a state or condition, not an individual. Although Sarasvati is his consort, he is intimately related to Prajnaparamita, which sounds sketchy, until we do the backwork and see how close Sarasvati and Prajnaparamita really are. Then when we go through and Prajnaparamita is a Tara, we get a closed loop. Her keg of gunpowder meets his box of skyrockets.


Yogurt is the material of Vasudhara. There is so much, there are four pots of it. Apparently it will be of little use to explain how this is presented as an outer symbol that has an inner meaning. You have just told us what it really is. You must have Cowherd Vasudhara and the Gomata. This is a Nidhi. At that point I would almost think you could do the whole Agni Homa. Let me put it this way. In the Buddhist view, you are able to freely employ the Hindu version, since all those mantras came from Manjushri. The only real difference is adding Buddhist Guru Yoga and Deity Yoga, and I guess you could say Varuni. Orthodox Hinduism begins usually by requesting Varuna to bless the holy water, whereas we would request Varuni to inhabit the alcohol.

That stuff is the sacred of the sacred. It is the power of the Nebulae to make Universes.

Cowherd or Gopali is related to either Ila, Bhu, or both. This is not a random pattern, but, we have looked at all the Veda Families or Gotra, and their beliefs and practices are all different, except for a common element called an Apri Hymn. On that, there are again eight or ten kinds, which, in the most complete versions, always call the Three Goddesses, Ila, Bhu, and Sarasvati. This is South Indian where they are invited to sit on mats and the Wish Fulfilling Tree is actually a Coconut, and so the Nepalese environment may be a little different, but it also calls the Three. Some Buddhist sadhanas truncate this to one and Request Permission of Earth Devi before any rite. But there is some reason for two yellow ones. The next Vasudhara samaya is Red Hook Manohara. And we do have at least something that shows these Vasudharas working together, some of which I believe is from the Seventh Panchen, who put together the Icons Worthwhile to See or Rinjung Lhantab or subject of the Tibetan Deities book and all the colored frames. This Manohara will turn out to be something like, are you attractive enough to pull in Jambhala?

Ila is more like Cintamani Fruit-picker and Gopali, whereas Bhu is more like Bharati, their etymology tending towards "vast", in the sense that land goes on and on. Bharati is like a Red Bhu or world soaked in pleasure.

I was not aware of a sadhana that refers to yogurt where most would generally say nectar pouring down.

The question is, who is Vajrasattva's consort?

It is Dharmadhatu Ishvari, or, the Queen of Dakini Jala's Six Family Wheels.

That is her generic and universal definition, and anything else is a modification for some specific practice, it could be Jnana Dakini, Vajravarahi, or something more plebian such as Vajra Ghanta. There could be six or eight or so alternatives, as long as it is one held to be a superior in the sixth family, it works in Dakini Jala, that is his consort. In the Samvarodaya view, in the navel, it is Vairocani.

Although it is typically held to be the case that a deity could change form at will, this is hardly ever reflected in sadhanas, except Vajracharchika says she changes form according to purpose, and, Dakini Jala as a whole says it changes and adapts, at least in the sense of two, four, or six arm forms.

Manjuvajra can do whatever Vajrasattva does. So if there is a simple Vajrasattva who does yogurt, this is well worth looking at.


Paryanka is a common term for a pose which is sometimes an Asana. These can be difficult, such as Ardha Paryanka, is it Tara's normal seated posture, or is it a dance with one leg swooped up, and if so, is that Tandava? It may have synonyms, but, it seems to me to be pretty standard for the feet, and hands are given separately, which the common thing for Tara gets crunched into one word, Varadotpaladharinim. That classifies the hands of Mrtyuvacana and White Vajra Tara, and many others, however those seem to be the "first" white Taras and they are virtually identical, especially with the Mantra Wheel. If you take that, you already have the Eight Channels from the Heart to the Body. That suggests its own importance.

Summing up various feelings of Bliss as "life-creating" is pretty close to Divine Desire--is it this which turns the real Pandara really Red? Or is it so pure she is really White?

I love the Mandarava episode. That is pretty close to the role of Ziro Bhusana, which itself is one of the few places something specifically says it raises clouds of Dakinis. Khandaroha makes clouds of Khandarohis, Marici makes clouds of Sow Faces, White Pratisara makes clouds of Manjughoshas, and many sadhanas speak of all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and Eight Non-human creatures without number, but she can't make Bodhisattvas and she didn't say anything about Sow Faces, and she is acting like Vajrayogini.

Although she did say "if", she has followed this with "you work for me", and, you do, and so this now sounds like a tangible type of Guru. A bit indirect, but I notice that here, she was not terse, dismissive, and relatively unhelpful, instead you get yogurt and a silver color. Why are sadhanas practically silent about silver? I do not even know the word for it.

The sixteen are summarized by the Sixteen Vowels that go on the White Moon of the First Void, the days of the waxing moon. One is considered a cipher and does not have a yogini. But this is where one can build a "model" Abhisambodhi. I can say the tantric White Moon is as real, or, rather, more real than anything else, but I am just a beginner as to the whys and hows of the Sixteen.

There is no reason Bharati cannot be a Cauldron. I like to use the Western term, Grail, which is a bit of a joke, since it is not a mystery and we have a pretty good idea what we are talking about. Cup, container, or whatever of the main active liquid.

On a personal level, I have thought the cresecent-and-dot-or-flame, or Bindu-Nada, bears an uncanny resemblance to an astronomical crescent moon in Conjunction with Venus. I am not sure if that is a part of any teaching, but, there may be something to it.

Mandarava certainly responded to the "execution at hand", that is as about as five-fold form gets stapled to the Hexagram of mind as it could be. If it was me, I would not abandon her for a single day for the rest of my life, and then I would go to her Pure Land.

Because it is not me, it is entirely likely that she might never appear for the rest of us, or if she did, she might spit on me. I have already squelched out in attempting to acquire Guru Rinpoche, I understand almost anything he has said, but could not get a connection. I am not sure if I will ever find an embodiment of Vajradhara, living or historical, as a more specific Guru. I do not know Mandarava at all, but, I am willing to say I am on her side, which means I will defend her outposts to the death. If I am not there, physically, then I mentally destroy whatever may try to disturb whatever she is doing. She is utterly free to reject me as a disciple, and I really have no choice as to whether I give her a defensive wall--it is automatic, like if someone stuffed your child in a van.

We live during a time when Nalanda University has taken rebirth, having been a victim of some kind of jihad. That is why my maternal protective instincts kicked in really hard. If you tell Mandarava that Nalanda is there, perhaps she will say "You fool, I put it there". I have no way of knowing. But we are all working together.

Mahamudra is the main subject in my lineage or Kagyu, is the main subject of Guru Yoga, it is in my Pranidhana, it is my lifestyle or identity. There are probably reams of books by someone and millions of internet stuffs, there perhaps is a Niguma or Mandarava quote, but, we have a basic stamp for it.

Tilopa gave a traditional Mahamudra catechism to Naropa, from whom the line proceeded. Here is Tilopa's catechism.

Thus have I heard:

Homage to the Eighty Four Mahasiddhas!
Homage to Mahamudra!
Homage to the Vajra Dakini!

Mahamudra cannot be taught. But most intelligent Naropa,
Since you have undergone rigorous austerity,
With forbearance in suffering and with devotion to your Guru,
Blessed One, take this secret instruction to heart.

Is space anywhere supported? Upon what does it rest?
Like space, Mahamudra is dependent upon nothing;
Relax and settle in the continuum of unalloyed purity,
And, your bonds loosening, release is certain.

Gazing intently into the empty sky, vision ceases;
Likewise, when mind gazes into mind itself,
The train of discursive and conceptual thought ends
And supreme enlightenment is gained.

Like the morning mist that dissolves into thin air,
Going nowhere but ceasing to be,
Waves of conceptualization, all the mind's creation, dissolve,
When you behold your mind's true nature.

Pure space has neither colour nor shape
And it cannot be stained either black or white;
So also, mind's essence is beyond both colour and shape
And it cannot be sullied by black or white deeds.

The darkness of a thousand aeons is powerless
To dim the crystal clarity of the sun's heart;
And likewise, aeons of samsara have no power
To veil the clear light of the mind's essence.

Although space has been designated "empty",
In reality it is inexpressible;
Although the nature of mind is called "clear light",
Its every ascription is baseless verbal fiction.

The mind's original nature is like space;
It pervades and embraces all things under the sun.
Be still and stay relaxed in genuine ease,
Be quiet and let sound reverberate as an echo,
Keep your mind silent and watch the ending of all worlds.

The body is essentially empty like the stem of a reed,
And the mind, like pure space, utterly transcends
the world of thought:
Relax into your intrinsic nature with neither abandon nor control -
Mind with no objective is Mahamudra -
And, with practice perfected, supreme enlightenment is gained.

The clear light of Mahamudra cannot be revealed
By the canonical scriptures or metaphysical treatises
Of the Mantravada, the Paramitas or the Tripitaka;
The clear light is veiled by concepts and ideals.

By harbouring rigid precepts the true samaya is impaired,
But with cessation of mental activity all fixed notions subside;
When the swell of the ocean is at one with its peaceful depths,
When mind never strays from indeterminate, non-conceptual truth,
The unbroken samaya is a lamp lit in spiritual darkness.

Free of intellectual conceits, disavowing dogmatic principles,
The truth of every school and scripture is revealed.
Absorbed in Mahamudra, you are free from the prison of samsara;
Poised in Mahamudra, guilt and negativity are consumed;
And as master of Mahamudra you are the light of the Doctrine.

The fool in his ignorance, disdaining Mahamudra,
Knows nothing but struggle in the flood of samsara.
Have compassion for those who suffer constant anxiety!
Sick of unrelenting pain and desiring release, adhere to a master,
For when his blessing touches your heart, the mind is liberated.

KYE HO! Listen with joy!
Investment in samsara is futile; it is the cause of every anxiety.
Since worldly involvement is pointless, seek the heart of reality!

In the transcending of mind's dualities is Supreme vision;
In a still and silent mind is Supreme Meditation;
In spontaneity is Supreme Activity;
And when all hopes and fears have died, the Goal is reached.

Beyond all mental images the mind is naturally clear:
Follow no path to follow the path of the Buddhas;
Employ no technique to gain supreme enlightenment.

KYE MA! Listen with sympathy!
With insight into your sorry worldly predicament,
Realising that nothing can last, that all is as dreamlike illusion,
Meaningless illusion provoking frustration and boredom,
Turn around and abandon your mundane pursuits.

Cut away involvement with your homeland and friends
And meditate alone in a forest or mountain retreat;
Exist there in a state of non-meditation
And attaining no-attainment, you attain Mahamudra.

A tree spreads its branches and puts forth leaves,
But when its root is cut its foliage withers;
So too, when the root of the mind is severed,
The branches of the tree of samsara die

A single lamp dispels the darkness of a thousand aeons;
Likewise, a single flash of the mind's clear light
Erases aeons of karmic conditioning and spiritual blindness.

KYE HO! Listen with joy!
The truth beyond mind cannot be grasped by any faculty of mind;
The meaning of non-action cannot be understood in compulsive activity;
To realise the meaning of non-action and beyond mind,
Cut the mind at its root and rest in naked awareness.

Allow the muddy waters of mental activity to clear;
Refrain from both positive and negative projection -
leave appearances alone:
The phenomenal world, without addition or subtraction, is Mahamudra.

The unborn omnipresent base dissolves your impulsions and delusions:
Do not be conceited or calculating but rest in the unborn essence
And let all conceptions of yourself and the universe melt away.

The highest vision opens every gate;
The highest meditation plumbs the infinite depths;
The highest activity is ungoverned yet decisive;
And the highest goal is ordinary being devoid of hope and fear.

At first your karma is like a river falling through a gorge;
In mid-course it flows like a gently meandering River Ganga;
And finally, as a river becomes one with the ocean,
It ends in consummation like the meeting of mother and son.

If the mind is dull and you are unable to practice these instructions,
Retaining essential breath and expelling the sap of awareness,
Practising fixed gazes - methods of focussing the mind,
Discipline yourself until the state of total awareness abides.

When serving a karmamudra, the pure awareness
of bliss and emptiness will arise:
Composed in a blessed union of insight and means,
Slowly send down, retain and draw back up the bodhichitta,
And conducting it to the source, saturate the entire body.
But only if lust and attachment are absent will that awareness arise.

Then gaining long-life and eternal youth, waxing like the moon,
Radiant and clear, with the strength of a lion,
You will quickly gain mundane power and supreme enlightenment.

May this pith instruction in Mahamudra
Remain in the hearts of fortunate beings.



That is pretty close to Ratna or Jewel of the Doctrine, which is the center of the Catuskoti. Perhaps this is the significance of Mahamudra Amoghasiddhi related to Dharmadhatu Wisdom, the fifth, or the center between four elements. He says send down and draw up the bodhicitta, which is the same as saying Tapas or Rising Heat is not yet Suksma Yoga, which begins with the melting of bodhicitta, and follows the directions stated.

On a scriptural basis, Ratna is this center, and so Ratna Gotra Vibhaga is the family or lineage of it, the RGV which expresses Seven Vajra Mysteries, is in part a copy of the Bhagavad Gita, and remains in communion with Ekayana or Refuge of One as for instance spoken by Queen Srimala Devi.

Is this the Ratna that a yellow Dhyani Buddha is "sambhava" or born from? I think so. He has the nickname Ratnaketu, a flame tuft over the crown, and in Dakini Jala, he is Vajra Surya, and if there is a secret sun, it can readily be found in Sarvadurgati Parishodana as yab-yum nectar deities.

Ratna is the Aggregate of Feelings, which are not the same as Moods. Feelings of course have an orchestra of variety, but, for tantric purposes, they are defined as good/bad/indifferent to the sensory inputs. If one burns the Dhyanis, this goes away, you do not have that reaction to any input, and if you keep going, there won't be any input anyway.

Until you get through it, there is some chance you might burn Ratna and then Amitabha will Cheshire Cat and refuse to leave, meaning you are still Attached to something, and if you can't break it, Ratna will re-form and you will slide back out into ordinary consciousness.

When you can fry them all in a single skillet, then, in a short period of time, you can probably figure out how to do this fairly quickly.

The catechism states "beyond all mental images", which is Nirakara, which makes this philosophy other-than Cittamatra Yogacara and other-than Sadguna Brahman, which seem to say there are always images and changing states, or something like that.

That is why the cosmic plane has nothing to do with any body of light; this is the meaning of Makara Rider.

This is an old catechism, meaning it would be given to someone who hasn't gotten it yet and is being groomed. Things such as Naro Dakini appear to be the outcome.

[shaberon]

We may have already done part of Vajra Rosary.

It is like Dakini Jala, using the Six Yogas or Sadanga Yoga in combination with Nagarjuna's Five Stages as two parallel explanations or methods. However, his first stage or Speech Isolation or Vajra Muttering is considered Completion Stage, or, these two systems individually--or both together if you can manage--are Completion Stage.

Although Abhisambodhi itself has five stages. it is only one of the Five Stages:

Basic Time.............................................Time of the Path
1. Inhalation and Exhalation............Diamond Muttering [Vajra Repetition] --Speech Isolation
2. Dissolution of the elements........Purification of the Mind [Mind Isolation] -- Citta Chakra
3. Clear Light of Death..................Personal Blessing [Illusory Body] --Svadisthana
4. Intermediate State body ..Revelation-Enlightenment [Manifest Enlightenment] -- Abhisambodhi
5. Birth.......................................Pair-united [Integration] -- Yughanadda

You see the fractal. The Abhisambodhis are the same five stages, "compressed" into a meditation session, which gives birth to Phala Vajradhara or Fruit or Perfect Image. Basic Time is talking about ordinary nature, i. e. physical death and rebirth, and so in Abhisambodhi or Direct Revelation, something psychological dies and a Perfect Image arises. Perhaps that is Vajra Bimba.


The note for dripping nectar out of the uvula says:

It goes without saying that this is a very advanced practice, because, among other reasons, the
Evacuative energy-wind cannot flow to the throat without the heart knot being significantly loosened,
which happens in the stages of speech and mind isolation.

In other words, you will not get the correct "handshake" to pull white bodhicitta lower down the avadhut without progress in cleaning the heart, and this part is apparently the "hidden topic" or explicit teaching in this book. Without going through a pedantic analysis, I can already tell you that this is more or less a male-spoken version of Dakini Jala. Or, it is a male-spoken version of the Rahasya, which explains the inner meaning of the sadhanas and mandalas of Dakini Jala Tantra.

And so if you can feel such a "handshake" as about to happen, then, by definition, you are also close to or starting to use Citta Chakra.

Anyone is welcome to throw a bucket of monkey wrenches at it, and I still bet seventy-three thousand dimes that these two books will be around 75% identical, with each having a special emphasis tucked in it. The Vajra Mala is perhaps a "rahasya" of Guyhasamaja, a male-based Father tantra, since the two are intimately linked and the only place that some of these subjects are mentioned.


[T]he sixth chapter explains the keys for
the life-energy-control vajra recitation to open up the knot of the heart
channels, and the twenty-second chapter section which collects the definitive
meaning mantras of the three syllables explains how the unraveling of the
heart-channel-knot is the supreme unraveling of a channel-knot of all the
wheels [of channels].


So far I have not found much that deals with a chalice of five metals as mentioned previously. There is a whole heap of references to vessels and substances, but nothing that appears to exalt Bharati or explain the Cup itself.

Chapter ten concerns itself with the many levels of the Tantric commitment of
“eating,” which is interpreted in terms of each of the five stages. There are many levels
of meaning here. “Eating” refers to the inner offering of the creation stage, as well as
that of the student ingesting enlightenment spirit during the second, “secret,” initiation,
where the student eats from the “lotus vessel.” In the perfection stage, the yogi “eats” the
conceptual energy-winds, Alamka explains, referring to the state of vajra-repetition
whose aim is speech isolation. He then “perfectly unites with the three [types of]
consorts,” which Alamka explains refers to both the three kinds of consorts and the
three luminances, leading to the yogi eating “in the vessel explained as the Great
Seal,” which Alamka explains refers to clear light and mind isolation, reversing the
one-hundred six instinctual natures. The commitment continues with the yogi
performing the commitments of self-consecration and the illusory body, and the last two
of the five stages, manifest enlightenment and integration, as well as commitments of
both the Mahayoga and Yogini Tantras.

There, Mahamudra is closely tied to Citta Chakra.

The closest thing to Bharati is almost at the end, in Chapter Sixty, which itself associates Completion Stage to Agni Homa:

The mere sound
Abiding in the center
Of the navel,
Is the secret lotus
Of outer mere sound.
For that, by the fire
Fanned by the wind
Of your own continuum, //3//
There is the perfect union
Of the two organs.
When brilliant radiance blazes,
The secret lotus
Fills up with butter,
Therefore this is called
The vessel. //4//

Evidently, "butter", or "yogurt", has dripped all the way down into the navel, which becomes known as "the vessel" or, equivalently, Bharati. This moment of entry is Sahaja. To me, this would seem to define Bharati as none of the preliminary cups, and only from Sahaja forward. Flexibly, since there is such a thing as a solo Bharati, she perhaps makes sense as an invocation that can be started from a more basic vessel, and you get Vasudhara playing with Jambhala, until Bharati enters Union, which would appear to say this Sahaja. This, again, arguably increases, you may be able to descend and not make a fitting batch of Mercury, or it will sit there without rising; once it does rise, its effects can only infinitely expand, so Bharati, Sukha Bharati, Sukha Vardhani, and Mahasukha Bharati seem appropriate for this.

I would say the dakini and yogini literature gives a lot more fertile ground for rumination, however, we have just described Increasing Bliss, which is not just something she wants to do, but happens as a result of the Father or Method--which is largely the same doctrine, being mindful of the nature of the winds and development of the heart.

Since the heart is the seat of manas, and the male deity is the mind which has a goddess as consort/experience/power, this seems fairly consistent.

Also, if I think mostly about Bharati, I can dodge the whole Sow Face issue. Her tier includes Kurukulla and Vajrayogini, and it seems to be up to Vajrayogini as to when Sow Face arises. Bharati is a Vasudhara who obviously derives from the minor Vasudharas, which is regarded as the preliminary to Varahi anyway.

[Old Student]

That stuff is the sacred of the sacred. It is the power of the Nebulae to make Universes.

I do have to say it felt and tasted more like clotted cream -- sweet.


Although she did say "if", she has followed this with "you work for me", and, you do, and so this now sounds like a tangible type of Guru. A bit indirect, but I notice that here, she was not terse, dismissive, and relatively unhelpful, instead you get yogurt and a silver color. Why are sadhanas practically silent about silver? I do not even know the word for it.

The silver had been poured and was liquid initially, as I twirled to a stop it solidified and became more like a statue, like one of the statues you might see on Himalayan Art.

I was back in the silver form briefly last night, it is fluid enough to move, actually, which I couldn't do the night before because I froze up like a statue. It has the currently uncomfortable feeling of drifting quickly through people.


On a personal level, I have thought the cresecent-and-dot-or-flame, or Bindu-Nada, bears an uncanny resemblance to an astronomical crescent moon in Conjunction with Venus. I am not sure if that is a part of any teaching, but, there may be something to it.

Or maybe with Mars? The moon conjoined with Mars last night.


Mandarava certainly responded to the "execution at hand", that is as about as five-fold form gets stapled to the Hexagram of mind as it could be. If it was me, I would not abandon her for a single day for the rest of my life, and then I would go to her Pure Land.

Because it is not me, it is entirely likely that she might never appear for the rest of us, or if she did, she might spit on me.


She actually seems to subscribe to the (introduction to, I'm still in the introduction) version of Dharma in the Avatamsaka Sutra -- that the teaching is whatever will move the student forward, and need not be the same ever again. And that she "drifts" through people and if they notice her, she begins moving them to the Dharma.

Tilopa's catechism is a sutra? It begins with "Thus have I heard." It is quite different from Niguma's treatise, Niguma being supposed to have been Naropa's sister. Hers is all about illusion.

[Old Student]

So far I have not found much that deals with a chalice of five metals as mentioned previously. There is a whole heap of references to vessels and substances, but nothing that appears to exalt Bharati or explain the Cup itself.
If the cup were to be whatever holds the liquid, then maybe the cup itself is whatever it is when the liquid is there. I'm just saying this because the cauldron was actually articulated as a "cauldron" when it appeared, "cauldron" being part of its name (in my shakings) but there were times it was the size of an indoor pool or Turkish bath, and times it was like a pond, or a lake or very vast.


Evidently, "butter", or "yogurt", has dripped all the way down into the navel, which becomes known as "the vessel" or, equivalently, Bharati. This moment of entry is Sahaja. To me, this would seem to define Bharati as none of the preliminary cups, and only from Sahaja forward. Flexibly, since there is such a thing as a solo Bharati, she perhaps makes sense as an invocation that can be started from a more basic vessel, and you get Vasudhara playing with Jambhala, until Bharati enters Union, which would appear to say this Sahaja. This, again, arguably increases, you may be able to descend and not make a fitting batch of Mercury, or it will sit there without rising; once it does rise, its effects can only infinitely expand, so Bharati, Sukha Bharati, Sukha Vardhani, and Mahasukha Bharati seem appropriate for this.


This and the verses above it make bliss sort of like dissolve was. That was the first time dissolve had ever been corporal (if you think of clotted cream/yogurt as corporal as opposed to like a crack in reality type of thing). But it has been true all along that dissolve is a lot more liquidy than decay or decompose. It feels liquid to be swallowed up by.

[shaberon]

Tilopa's catechism is a sutra? It begins with "Thus have I heard." It is quite different from Niguma's treatise, Niguma being supposed to have been Naropa's sister. Hers is all about illusion.

Not sure, but I don't believe so.

"Ekasmin maya srotam" and the forty syllables are really Tantra, it will run with Thirty-seven point Enlightenment in Guhyasamaja, or it is done a little differently in Vajra Rosary, I have found it an unwieldy dreadnought; if one was a native speaker, this paragraph might not be very hard. But what is true is that a great deal of tantras begin with the same line, but then, there are specific exceptions. For example, Guyhagarbha begins:

"At this time, the words say..."

as if the reader were the one teaching it to themself.

The colloquial "Thus have I heard" is like a soft proselytism, we don't go round forcing anyone to confess to Vajrasattva or anything like that, it is less lofty and overbearing than the tone of some other philosophies. That is the Sutra level explanation. Try to tell a dakini to quit being so overbearing, and a different meaning comes through.

I think there is great value in preserving the Yoginis' literature and sadhanas, where else besides Buddhism do we find many women able to craft long standing spiritual practices?

But they are shadowed, like for example Siddharajni has some things in the canon, but all of her pronouns have been masculinized. Niguma was not exactly in broad daylight. If one is not Shangpa, closeness to the Yoginis seems to diminish rapidly.

Mars has been all over the moon lately. The idea first came to me in the dawn twilight when I was studying Bindu-Nada and I could see the Venus conjunction through the window without having to move. Both of those are White because Venus or Sukra is explicitly semen. I have not observed Mars go into that exact situation, but I can't say that it can't.

Evidently, the name for Silver is Rajata, which I don't remember being used for anything. It is possible that terms for white could also mean silver, but this does not put me in a position to say Sita Tara "is" silver because it "could" mean that.

Almost any word could have ten synonyms, or, it could have ten different meanings. If we are careful, one can usually find guides and volunteers to help narrow it down. I cannot promise my analysis is error-free, sometimes I make mistakes, but at the same time, we are able to find instances where Tibetan records are incorrect or misleading.

Here is who we are considering as the "Grail", likely masked as the "vessel" of Ch. 60 v. 4.

The difficulty in figuring out Bharati is that in theatrics and in many places like Siva Purana she is defined as Sarasvati, Speech, and Eloquence. This is an example where medieval Hindus have changed something ancient, which our Buddhist rite has preserved. If we look at the few other ways that she is remembered as something other than Sarasvati, at first we get:

1) Bharatī (भरती):—[from bharata > bhara] f. Name of a daughter of Agni Bharata, [Mahābhārata]

But, if we push on a little further:

6) Name of a deity (in, [Ṛg-veda] often invoked among the Āprī deities and [especially] together with Ilā and Sarasvatī [according to] to [Nirukta, by Yāska viii, 13] a daughter of Āditya; later identified with Sarasvatī, the goddess of speech).

So, she is in the same place or equivalent to Bhu Devi, which, for some reason, was unnecessarily changed. Some of the Apri Hymns might just say Ila and Sarasvati. But some of the Gotras preserve Ila, Bhu, and Sarasvati, and so Bharati is or is at least an aspect of Bhu Devi.

In the Brahmanda P., one of the few places that speaks of the existence of Vairocani, we get:

1a) Bhāratī (भारती).—Is Bhāratavarṣa.*

* Brahmāṇḍa-purāṇa II. 14. 72.

1b) (Vāṇī and Sarasvatī); wife of Prajāpati; served Lalitā with cāmara; gave the flywhisk to Gangā and entered the face of Brahmā.*

* Brahmāṇḍa-purāṇa IV. 39. 70-71; Matsya-purāṇa 4. 8.

Bharatavarsa is simply earth, and/or India, and Bharati may be classed as a land off the south face of Meru. It is possible that 1b is a separate individual who is more related to Sarasvati, which led to the forgetting of 1a.

The general origin of her name is thought to be similar to bhrta, or to an anagram of Bhava Raga Tala (musical).

The Sanskrit language is similar to a word-share between various Indian languages, and in this case, perhaps it means the things from both regions simultaneously:

Pali usage is bears--supports--maintains--feeds.

Marathi suggests f (bharaṇēṃ) The flux of the ocean, the tidal flow. Opp. to ōhaṭa or sukatī. 2 Completing, filling, loading. 3 Completed, filled, or loaded state (of ships, carts, beasts, vessels): also complement or completed state (of a number or a quantity).

Sakya's Bharati is clearly not Sarasvati because she is Vasudhara. Bharati is the name specifically used in the Ngor lineage for
Rinjung Gyatsa's Red Vasudhara 115, which is before Vajrayogini and after Golden Drop Kurukulla. If you knew nothing of her, you would just say, oh, it is Vasudhara mixed with some kind of Vajrayogini because she has corn and a skull of blood, slightly wrathful with yellow hair blazing upwards, which is strictly a tantric state. If I ignored sadhanas except those that were thrust at me by the evident progression, she may have the first electric hair. Tibetan Deities adds a Goat's Blood Triangular Dharmodaya and that her strange mantra is used with twenty-one red flower offerings.

These are three extremely brief pieces 114-116 which are Sakya's Three Reds, and so when we see this Golden Drop Kurukulla is Nyan's and so is Ziro Bhusana Vajrayogini, who has "encapsulated" the Sakya standard Tinuma by being written next, and even these two are mantricly related to Four Dakinis mantra, I think we are pretty safe in saying this is all at par with each other in terms of energy level and inner meaning. These deities pre-suppose the manifestation, I will just say, of Dakini, which in the canon is the most famous three dakinis from Naro, Maitri, and Indra (which in the land of Nepal is found to be four). The first two stages of the special Sakya tantras could easily be called Dakini and then Vajrayogini.

Nyan's Kurukulla is so simple it is very profound. All you need is any Green Tara and her normal mantra, meaning the Khadira-alikes that have Ardha Paryanka and Varadaotpaladharinim. Nyan's Green Tara is Six Limb Tara which is frequently mistaken for six arms, but, it is Sadanga, it means Six Limb Yoga. It perhaps would also be feasible to employ Day--Night Tara since this is probably the only Green Tara that really is in Lotus Family.

In front of Tara arises a Hrih syllable, which transforms into normal dancer Kurukulla.

She is similar to, but different from, Avalokiteshvara, which suggests they are different samadhis. Red Avalokiteshvara has in his heart Guhyajnana Dakini, who is capable of being his consort, or of arising with the Four Dakinis.

Kurukulla instead has Concentration Hero, which means another herself is at her heart, at whose heart is a Hrih.

Golden Drop Kurukulla has the function of Control.

Keep this in mind with the hint that Guhyajnana is somewhat characterized as "governing" "harmonizing" or "arranging" the otherwise possibly raucous, aberrant, or even dangerous dakinis.

Kurukulla is going to whip out two of the Four Activities that are not in order:

Kuru Kulle

Pravesaya Hum

Vasham Kuru Hoh

Ask the Vajra Rosary about that one and see what you get.

She is just doing Noose and Bell like any Gatekeeper, but, she is Kurukulla, and, she is not necessarily guarding a doorway, she is indicating a specific kind of samadhi which may not have forced its appearance yet. If you try it on Guhyajnana Dakini, you get back Avalokiteshvara. In actuality there probably are several deities that do this, but, the Sakya Dharmas are structured in a precise way, if one is willing to accept "this" Kurukulla as meaning a strong activation of nectar to the throat. I think she is most simply a Buddhist definition of this phase of Yoga, who is also capable of a fairly profuse elaboration.

Now on this one, Tibetan Deities is a completely different sadhana based on Akarsaya Jah or Hook and it is called Hri Suvarna Lakshmi Bindu.

It starts with a red triangular Dharmodaya and red flowers, and there is also a flask. It starts pretty much the same as Nyan's version with a different mantra, and then, in the flask is generated another Green Tara with a very unusual eight member retinue:

White Purnabhadra with a jewel-marked flask
Yellow Ganapati with a jewel and a gold amulet box
Red Vaisravana with a jewel and a tree
Black Jambhala with a jewel and a mongoose
Green Subjugating Tara with a jewel and an utpala
Red Kurukulla with an utpala and a gem-marked hook
Yellow Vasudhara with a jewel and rosary
Sitatapatra with a jewel and a jewel-marked lotus

You offer Torma with a dual Tara and Kurukulla mantra.

Concerning the Hook mantra used at the beginning, it is possible to insert "name of person being summoned".

Its main mantra is from Arapacana and says, "The syllable A is a door to the insight that all dharmas are un-produced from the very beginning".

Exactly where gold comes into play or what is going on with this flask is not explained.

1) Pūrṇabhadra (पूर्णभद्र) and Dattā refers to one of the eight Yakṣa and Śakti pair occupying the double lotus in the sādhana of Jambhala (yab-yum form), as described in the Sādhanamālā. —Accordingly, when represented in Yab-Yum, he sits on the moon under which there is a double lotus of eight petals. [...] The eight petals of the lotus seat are occupied by the eight Yakṣas [viz., Pūrṇabhadra], who are identical in all respects with the principal figure. Each Yakṣa is accompanied by a Śakti [viz., Dattā] with whom he remains in Yab-Yum in the same way as Jambhala remains with Vasudhārā [...]. The Yakṣiṇīs are identical in form with Vasudhārā, who is yellow in complexion, carries the ears of corn and shows the Varada-mudrā in her two hands.]

2) Pūrṇabhadra (पूर्णभद्र) refers to eight Yakṣa kings, commonly depicted in Buddhist Iconography, and mentioned in the 11th-century Niṣpannayogāvalī of Mahāpaṇḍita Abhayākara.—The Yakṣas are a semi-mythical class of beings who are supposed to preside over treasures and shower wealth on mankind when propitiated. They are all collectively described in the dharmadhātuvāgīśvara-maṇḍala in one brief sentence:—“The Yakṣa kings [viz., Pūrṇabhadra] hold in their hands the bījapūra (citron) and the nakula (mongoose) in the right and left hands respectively”.—Pūrṇabhadra is blue in colour.

Tara--Kurukulla makes a Jambhala--Vasudhara Yaksa city?

Something like that is the gold and what is going on with this flask.


What is unusual about the third and final tier of Sakya Dharmas is that Kurukulla is still there, then there is a pretty standard consort couple of Takkiraja and Bharati, and then there is Ganapati and the "implied" Ganapati Hrdaya, but when we look at the Homa, it seems like Ganesh collects all the Shaktis and has the Occult Marriage to Siddhi and Buddhi in the sense that he is sacrificed into the sun. It is something like he does the Yoga Maya which is actually the teaching for Devas which a human cannot actually do, such as enter the actual sun. Ganesh does something like a time-out which seems to be a gambit for the Aswins.

The additional Sakya Dharmas vary from school to school, but, a common one is Shabala Garuda, and, they also have perhaps the only known instance of Amaravajra. I think this is largely because Ngor retains some of the weird White Taras from Sadhanamala.

They say a similar thing, that Kurukulla leads to or is of Hevajra Tantra, and most of their other stuff relates to Chakrasamvara, like we could say of Ekajati and Marici.

This is interesting, and Kurukulla still has no Chain or Bandhaya Vam. Since she is consistently related to the Hevajra no matter which way we shake her, Chain or Shrnkala is a special consort Hevajra uses for one of his mandalas. There is something very weird in that Lotus or Red power does not seem to possess its own Activity.

We understand the Inverted Stupa a little better since it should be plain that the majority of the Triangle is aimed into the throat, which really does undergo a Kurukulla process for an indeterminate length of time and only then is the Citta Chakra seen as functioning, which is the *next* stage in the Stupa.

In a strict sense, this already appears to break into what is defined as Completion Stage, but there are several reasons why I would say it is not.

Yes, it is starting to use the Four Joys and so forth, which is the Yoga of Completion Stage, but it has to the the Completion of some Yidam whether Chakrasamvara or whatever.

After the white bodhicitta stimulates the heart chakra, it lands in the "vessel" of Nirmana Chakra, represented as the upper Yellow Earth Square. Ideally, this Square should be Sahaja, and we should be able to do self-arisen White Heruka and a full mandala and touch the base of a Deity's Stupa, and the missing spiritual practices which operate Completion Stage. This may be non-intuitive since the symbol is going "up" and the body process is going "back down where it was", but from the point of view of timing, it corresponds.

It is possible to physiologically advance beyond the sadhana capability, and, the teaching has told me this Mercury has to be cleansed or it will be toxic. Because I know exactly what it is and that I did not do this, I believe it may need a marker like a warning. If you are able to get there, you should perhaps stop, unless you have a handle on this. Sort of like "be careful what you wish for".

If you can get to the real Citta Chakra, then, you perhaps should, unless some kind of obvious problem shows up. This is already into the territory where you could roast your brain or bang up your nerves, or find yourself helpless against Wrathful deities, but once the Citta hits home, you are able to contact the Dharma Kaya.

[Old Student]

The colloquial "Thus have I heard" is like a soft proselytism...

It is supposed to indicate that what follows is teaching from Buddha. That's why it begins sutras.


Mars has been all over the moon lately.
They were officially in conjunction on October 2nd.


It is possible to physiologically advance beyond the sadhana capability, and, the teaching has told me this Mercury has to be cleansed or it will be toxic. Because I know exactly what it is and that I did not do this, I believe it may need a marker like a warning. If you are able to get there, you should perhaps stop, unless you have a handle on this. Sort of like "be careful what you wish for".

There are some things happening in the shaking right now that are like this. They are at points where the training has kind of walked up to them and then backed down. One knows one is going to get there, but there are steps in between.


If you can get to the real Citta Chakra, then, you perhaps should, unless some kind of obvious problem shows up. This is already into the territory where you could roast your brain or bang up your nerves, or find yourself helpless against Wrathful deities, but once the Citta hits home, you are able to contact the Dharma Kaya.

I am currently spending time in an empty place. There is an exercise, which is being known as "flitting". It involves sliding through the consciousness of someone else very rapidly, to sort of make them turn their head. It has the best of intentions, and one can see that when some perfected being like the Dakinis do it, that that would work. One gets a whole less confident one oneself, however.

[shaberon]

Yes, the Sutra opening does mean "according to Buddha", and to us must represent oral disciplic transmission, otherwise we are back in the argument of how do you prove the Third Turning of the Wheel of Dharma has anything to do with the Pali basket?

Tantra is the same, it never really contradicts the Sutras, but intensifies them, mostly "according to Vajradhara", which is simply how Buddha does this.

In Vajra Rosary, Vajradhara is understood as Guru, and the ways he does this, is that he asks questions which are answered by Mahasukha Vajrasattva.

And so when I ran across Nyan's Kurukulla, it suddenly came together. At the most basic, she is emphasizing Hum and Hoh, which...are the subject of Chapter Six.

This is very telling, since it specifically dismisses Generation Stage, and it is only dealing with Mahamudra, and says "we do not even mention the karma, samaya, and dharma mudras".

It is a bit strange to me, since it places Om Ah Hum after this, but it pretty clearly summarizes that all of your outer Yoga and preliminaries truncate into Hum Hoh at the stage of loosening the heart knot and seeking for the nectar to drip into it.


Sadhanamala elaborates Kurukulla, from which we can take away some key points, such as her having a white form that represents this gathering of nectar, and that she is not so much a love goddess unless her love object is the Cemeteries, and she remains kind of virginal or Sixteen or Power of Kumari, which is its own ingredient in a Homa.

Rinjung Gyatsa is simlper and just has Nyan's Kurukulla and one more. And so we know Guhyajnana arises from Hrih and has the Four Dakinis...and then it turns out that Secret Realization Kurukulla arises from Hrih and has the Four Dakinis as well as their mantra, so she is an extremely close relative to Guhyajnana.

She is a bit more intricate--the dakinis get their mantra wheel and Three Places. Quite unusually, she is crowned by a presumably small but entirely complete Hayagriva, who in turn is crowned by a Horse Head, in front of which is "my guru".

Even more intricately, her heart becomes this entire assembly.

Again she is in the spot of and would presumably have the role of Buddha Dakini/Tathagata Family, but really only has evidence of Lotus Family, which seems to mean they are "doubled" since Lotus or Padma Dakini or Khandaroha is in the retinue, and there is no Buddha Dakini at all.

Walking up to/backing down from an energetic state or door, barrier, etc., is cyclic action, some day you go back with more clarity and power. That sounds appropriate. "Fitting" is interesting, and here, Confidence is really what in Buddhism is called Faith (Sraddha).

Next if we pull a bit from Chapter Six and see if it works with Hum Hoh Kurukulla, we may have something. It would be beneficial to me. I can only say retrospectively that well, my heart center must have been open and clean enough for Bodhicitta to pass, somewhat rapidly, without grounding in what Vajra Rosary and Kurukulla are saying, so it does remain as a barrier to be surmounted.

Nothing says to do this, except Mahasukha Vajrasattva is a snarky character who did not think anyone would understand him, and he hid his teaching in all the tantras. So he clearly discusses it in Vajra Rosary, and, even if we scan the entire Dharma, we will hardly find anything else that will focus on Hum Hoh.

It remains the case that Om Ah Hum is an outer preliminary, but I guess it is somewhat defrayed at this stage until arising in a higher power the way he intends it. Because I do not know exactly what he is talking about, but, it has interrupted us as something significant towards Completion Stage and appears to be portrayed by an appropriate Kurukulla, it is worth a try.

[Old Student]

Sadhanamala elaborates Kurukulla, from which we can take away some key points, such as her having a white form that represents this gathering of nectar, and that she is not so much a love goddess unless her love object is the Cemeteries, and she remains kind of virginal or Sixteen or Power of Kumari, which is its own ingredient in a Homa.

Rinjung Gyatsa is simlper and just has Nyan's Kurukulla and one more. And so we know Guhyajnana arises from Hrih and has the Four Dakinis...and then it turns out that Secret Realization Kurukulla arises from Hrih and has the Four Dakinis as well as their mantra, so she is an extremely close relative to Guhyajnana.

I thought the love goddess part was a lure to bring you in range of her hook and noose, and her arrow tip which is called the beginning of wisdom. Not surprised about the cemeteries. But I did look up Guhyajnana, in her four armed version, she is holding the khatanga in one hand, and has her skull cup and flaying knife at the center the way others have a bell and vajra (not crossed but at the center like a mudra). All of which is unusual.

Kurukulla is also about magic and illusion, that is what she fits more in my shaking.


Walking up to/backing down from an energetic state or door, barrier, etc., is cyclic action, some day you go back with more clarity and power. That sounds appropriate. "Fitting" is interesting, and here, Confidence is really what in Buddhism is called Faith (Sraddha).

I have had two more nights with the flitting. I can barely get started on it. It is related to being spun into that silver dakini after having asked a question. Drifting quickly through someone else's consciousness is a kind of invitation, one of maybe many times in their lives when if they just happened to notice it their lives would change.

Beyond that, and the frustration of being unable to get much of a start on this exercise, I don't know anything. It is something that requires the outcome of getting the three together -- dissolve, decay, decompose -- and I'm still in need of hours of work to do that, even though I seem to be starting quite a few nights ready to do the third one when I begin shaking.

The faith part of it is, for this thing, all about feeling okay about touching other people's lives, even if it is just an almost glimpse or shudder. If I become uncomfortable while they are putting me through it, I get all made of ashes-like and start pointing and grimacing.

[shaberon]

Yes, I am not seeking to limit the Kurukulla, those other points are also valid. As for the syllable, it is an adjustment to Hrim, which is the Maya syllable in Yoga generally. Both are just extensions to Hri, which is the heart. Varahi is also clearly said to capture and carry forward Maya.

Sabara was given a sadhana from Avalokiteshvara, which--as seems to be the case with many exercises--he should have practiced for six months, and took twelve years.

Vajra Rosary constantly re-iterates the need for personal instructions from the Yogini and the Guru. Perhaps those can be the same entity, at least temporarily.

What he is saying is not that difficult, until you get to what is he saying about it.

The first thing that occurs to me is that it is saying Vajradhatvishvari of the tantras is *not* the default upper life wind you have from taking birth. Here, she is defined as the first stage of Guhyasamaja, which is where Sparsha or Touch has entered the center Element of Space. This is reflected in its absence from the Maha Bhuts. Whatever else it may mean, it does mean the Sense of Touch has departed from its default operation in Air--Entire Surface, has left Amoghasiddhi, represented by Smoke and Ash.

Part of what it says is "overcoming" the upper wind, i. e. its tendency to branch and generate concepts and so forth. Ultimately, it looks like the reason for saying Nine Families is because these two central winds achieve Non-dual Union, and then you would have a tantricly-activated Vajradhatvishvari, or the only no-conceptual wind. At this stage, this has already "sparked", but remains incomplete compared to what Vajrasattva is saying.

And so at this stage, Hum and Hoh are called the Sound and the Drop and they are the upper wind (Vajra Family) and the lower wind. In its own scheme, it says Evacuative Wind--Ratna Family--Space, which is already a bit unusual, since Nadir at least in the sense of lower chakras is Amoghasiddhi in most tantras. Here, it sounds equivalent to saying Vajradhatvishvari is in Ratna Family. This corresponds to Vilasini and Padma Jalini tantras, which are Karma Mudra, like it has been stretched out through all iterations of these Mudras, has run its course.

Part of the rationale is that originally or by being born, Evacuative Wind is "H without any other letter" or Ha, and you eventually wind up with Primordial A plus Ham which is the normal human mind/body or Aham or "I". Exactly why Ratna has the syllable both in Amoghasiddhi's normal pronunciation and presumed wind, I am not sure. Here, he says Hoh and attempts to raise the lower wind up to the heart.

The two syllables are explained at the end of the chapter, and, to figure it out, I had to go backwards. As to this being given before the "standard" Om Ah Hum, "This also caught Tsong kha pa’s attention, and he discusses the fact that the Vajra Rosary contains two methods, concluding they are both effective methods for combining the Life-energy and Evacuative
energy-winds in the heart center. Tsong kha pa 2010, 315-17."

The instructions are to sit in Lotus Posture for six months and Mutter Hum Hoh, until the heart is utterly relaxed in Mahamudra:

Thus the name
Of the two syllables
Is the wonderful sign
Of mantra.
In order to abandon
All grasping,
They take the name
Of sound and drop.
Differentiating
The two winds,
You cause the opening
Of the knot of ignorance. //44//
One who repeats for six months
The cause of the
Supreme Great Seal,
The two supremely
Peaceful syllables,
The object of those desiring
Personal instructions,
Will achieve the brilliant state
Of the sound of the drop,
Causing him accomplish
The desired goal. //45//



Through opening of the drop,
You will achieve
Great bliss and supreme yoga
In six months.
There is no doubt of this. //50//
This foremost is the stream
Of the channel,1781
Abiding as the stainless Avadhuti,
The great wisdom reality
Of energy-wind
The cause of Vajrasattva. //51//

1781: causing the winds to enter the avadhut

It refers to "brilliant state of the sound of the drop", which must describe progress against the main knot, which is ignorance, which would have to begun to be understood as Vajra Ignorance preventing the Vajra Kaya or deathless state, which is intended to be conjoined to Great Bliss in this tantra.


Pill, sword, rising corpse,
King, eye medicine, alchemy,
Paralyzing an army,
Standing stationary
And [walking] through walls,
The supreme state
Of wisdom holding, //52//

Disappearing, seeing treasure,
Transforming as you desire,
Seeing forms, alchemy,
Conquering poison,
Entering into fire, //53//
The state of the five clairvoyances,
And the five wisdoms,
Will be achieved.
In this way,
The state of enlightenment
Is instantaneous. //54/

This must mean something different about the Winds, in other words, to start the Inverted Stupa, I mainly centered Heat along with perhaps just some Wind from the legs which flew into all Three Channels, and it gets the white drop melting, nevertheless, I experience conceptual winds and dispersion, compared to everything having basically been quelled and entering the Avadhut, only (Non-elaboration).

It has told us that it is beyond outer Yoga and is the cusp of Completion Stage, and perhaps is working with a "secret" drop instead of the original drop in the head:

Not by analysis of the chakras,
And, similarly, not by the
Ecstasies and so forth,
But by the reality
Of Mantra
Will you achieve
The clear state
Of the Great Seal. //28//
The Emptiness Wisdom Vajra,1763
The reality of non-dual bliss,
And the opening
Of the secret drop,
Are the great bliss
That accomplishes yoga. //29//
Opening the eggshell
Of ignorance,
Destroying the mountain
Of [the egoistic] view
Of the transitory collection,1764

1763 Skt. sunyata jñana vajra

1764: According to the Avadana Sataka Sutra, Hundred Stories Sutra, each aggregate
has four wrong views, destroyed by vajra wisdom, so twenty wrong views are overcome by the stream
winner. Every chapter has "destroying the mountain of the egoistic view." Yam srutvashrimatya
devakanyaya vimsatisikharasamdudgatam satkayadrstisailam jñanavajrena bhittva srotapayyiphalam
praptam. “Having heard thus, the glorious divine daughter destroyed the high twenty peaks of the mountain
of the view of transitory collection with the thunderbolt of wisdom, manifesting the streamwinner result.”
Page 139. Story # 55. See also Candrak'rti, Introduction to the Middle Way, Ch. 6 v.144, p. 387 ("The
body is not the self nor does self have a body; the self is not based on the body or body on self. Know that
these four relations apply to all skandhas; so these are considered the twenty views of self").



And accomplishing
The Great Seal
Are declared to be
The supreme performance. //30//
Through the definitive practice
Of the reality of mantra,
You will definitively realize
The clarity of
Lineage and [its] components
From the kindness
Of the yogini
And the personal instructions
Of the guru. //31//


Here it says you have already done Generation Stage and are looking at a new drop:

In order to conquer cyclic existence,
You strive in meditation
To open the drop
In the brilliant state,
Not knowing other ignorant things.1758 //24//
When you open that
Central knot,
Powers arise
[And] the yogi attains yoga.
Having attained
The five wisdoms, //25//
You attain
The five clairvoyances

1758 Alamka explains: "Not knowing other ignorant things" [refers to] the meditator on the thatness of
mantra, [and] has the meaning "by the logic previously explained." "Not knowing other ignorant things"
[means] by the completion stage yogi. “Other ignorant things" is the intrinsic existence of innate or
composed things, that do not exist, because in the creation stage meditation they have [already] been
abandoned. If it is not thus, if someone asks what the other ignorant things are, in response to that he says
"the central knot," [referring to] the five channels in the space in the center of the heart, within the five
channels. "Knot" [means] the tying up that is naturally made. That very thing is expressed as "ignorant"
because, by the force of that, one doesn't know the nature of energy-wind and mind. 55B. Although it
seems somewhat awkward given his attainment of the clairvoyances etc. as a result of this practice that this
yogi does not “know” something, the yogi not “knowing” these “other ignorant things makes sense given
his non-conceptual state when the heart knot is opened.

You have drawn Sparsha into the middle, and overwhelmed the upper wind to a point, where you are stuck without ordinary Touch, but consciousness projects four Maha Bhuts anyway:

Making the thoughts
Move around
From all of the
Various openings,
The upper ones go downwards.
Having overcome the
Life-energy energy-wind,
All these enter the tip
Of the vajra,
And face downwards. //19//
[But] it doesn't go downwards:
The wheel of the knot
Of ignorance
Mixes with the instincts
Of the energy-wind
Of the chariot of consciousness,
[Becoming] the four consciousnesses
Of eye, ear, and, similarly,
Nose and tongue. //20//
Arising from the four points,
Having mixed with
Instinctive consciousness,
Consciousness together with the
Sense powers
Develops the objective realm. //21//

You can't get enough power to, in, and through the heart knot, and so you become extra aware of the branching:


When it is dominated by that [constriction],
The [winds] move in five ways:1748
Life-energy, Evacuative,
Upward, Pervading and Equalizing, 1749
Up from the five tips1750 //10//
Perfectly relying on the
Five channels.1751
Inflated, Developed, Crazy,
Drinking and Friend --
You should know these as the
Five channels. //11//
The great energy-wind
Called "Life-energy"
Pervades brilliantly
Beneath the [Wisdom] Vajra,
Above [it], and
In the center of the
Life Wheel,
Also going to
The expanse of space
In the center
Of the [Wisdom] Vajra. //12//


1748 Per Robert Thurman, when enlightenment spirit flows, it goes all over the place; it is hard to get in the
central channel. Personal Communication 4-22-08.

1749 For a description of these "root" winds, see K. Gyatso, 2002, 26-7.

1750 Per Lozang Jamspal, the tips of the energy-winds are like chu sna, water nose, the leading edge of a
flow of water. If you see this in the mountains, it's a good omen. So the energy-winds just go in those five
channels. Personal Communication 1-30-06.

1751 As for "five channels," Lati Rinboche writes:

Initially, five channels of the heart form simultaneously - the central, right and left
channels as well as the Triple Circle of the east [front] and the Desirous One of the south
[right].
"The channel-wheel at the heart is composed of the central, right and left channels,
around which are eight petals or spokes - four at the cardinal directions and four at the
intermediate directions."
After that, three channels form simultaneously - the Free of Knots channel that abides
with [and behind] the central channel, the Household One of the west [back], and the
Fiery One of the north [left]. These are called the eight channels that initially form at the
heart [not to be confused with the eight channel-petals of the heart].

There is where I have to ask the difference between initially-forming channels and channel petals.

Having triumphed
By meeting up with the navel knot,
It moves in five ways,
In the five points at the tips --
Crescent Moon,
Mole [on the body],
Serving, Dewlap and Liver --
These are the names
Of the five channels. //13//
From the five channels,
The wind-energies that move [are]:
Naga, Kurma [Tortoise],
Kakalasa [Lizard],
Devadatta and Dhanujit.
In that way, together with that tip,
Because it goes to the
Lower part of the body, //14//


It was a little confusing, because it has re-used the term "drop" after originally using it for the drop "at the hair tuft", which you have already opened, in order to look at opening the heart knot. The subject clearly began that the upper drop has been opened in the head, and Vajradhara is concerned that beings might not be able to operate their hearts:

Again, Vajradhara asked
The Great Bliss Lord: //4//
"Lord of migrating beings,
Please show [how] one
Who knows the supreme yoga
Possessing wisdom of the
Opening of the drop
Unties the knot by practice. //5//
[Then], this migrant
Of the three realms
[Would] swiftly attain
Supreme spiritual accomplishment."
The request having been made
In these words,
The Vajra One said
To the Vajra Lord: //6//
This supreme secret
Is not clearly stated
Anywhere.
Also, as for the
Opening of the drop,
Listen and I'll explain it. //7//
The Wisdom Vajra always
Resides in the space
In the lotus bud
Of the heart.
Flanking [it] above
And below
Abide the Life
-energy
Energy
-wind
And the great
Evacuative energy
-wind. //8//
As for that [bud], it is
Constricted by three knots
In the center,
Difficult to open.

I am able to absorb his point by reviewing it mostly backwards. This is just a translation from Tibetan sources, and, it would be helpful if "drop" had a better nomenclature, such as Vasanta Tilaka versus White Bodhicitta, and so forth. I am not really aware of Evacuative Wind being called "drop".

As to how relevant, timely, and apropos Nyan's Kurukulla is to this, is hard to say. For one thing, if the teaching is hidden anywhere, it should work where it can be found. Secondly, especially for those of us who do not have a self-arisen Kurukulla, she may be emanated by a very simple Tara. Also, as far as I can tell, Kurukulla is germane to the same type of Yoga phase, which I can at least agree is a real thing.

Her close parallel version has a bottle of Yakshas culminating in...Parasol. Well, we were wondering how Parasol became embroiled with Aparajita and Ratna Family. And so right there it is like you have grabbed a telescope aimed at Ultimate Enlightenment. It has two of the three Adi Prajnas, Vasudhara and Parasol.

Parasol is also Maha Pratyangira, who is in Vajra Family but is not wrathful, and would seem more like a heart deity than crown.

Obviously, the writers of these materials would not have expected anyone to make reasonable sense out of Mandarava twirling them around like a set of bowling pins, or anyone figuring out Mercury and Vajra Kaya without knowing the words for it. As a Tara devotee, I can say it is commensurately correct that Tara opens *all* of the knots, and so if this suggests that Tara-born Kurukulla does it around the heart, or possibly Pratyangira does, it merits consideration. If the related Kurukulla with a Flask has a bunch of Yakshas up to Parasol who is also Vajradakini, then Upeksa of the heart center as I mentioned previously seems to enter the picture here.

Kurukulla already has a tremendous capacity right there, and that is without even scratching the surface of the weird stuff she does.

Tinuma Vajrayogini has the simple feature at her navel a moon disc with Hrih and Four Dakinis mantra. That is the one that is the specific Sakya lineage from the liturgy.

Guhyajnana is perhaps a bit stealthy, she is red at the front door like the others but different, well-known as part of Avalokiteshvara, and, incognito, she is also blue or Mahacina Krama Tara.

The thing to Zhiro Bhusana Vajrayogini is that she is displayed like royalty, on an elaborate seat supported by five Dakinis, which is like an entire Guhyajnana or Kurukulla retinue.

[Old Student]

The first thing that occurs to me is that it is saying Vajradhatvishvari of the tantras is *not* the default upper life wind you have from taking birth. Here, she is defined as the first stage of Guhyasamaja, which is where Sparsha or Touch has entered the center Element of Space. This is reflected in its absence from the Maha Bhuts. Whatever else it may mean, it does mean the Sense of Touch has departed from its default operation in Air--Entire Surface, has left Amoghasiddhi, represented by Smoke and Ash.

The Touch entering the Element of Space is very much like my seeping out when I become the breeze, the smoke and ash resonates because right now it is what happens when I fail at flitting.


I am able to absorb his point by reviewing it mostly backwards. This is just a translation from Tibetan sources, and, it would be helpful if "drop" had a better nomenclature, such as Vasanta Tilaka versus White Bodhicitta, and so forth. I am not really aware of Evacuative Wind being called "drop".


Having trouble with this term, I see it in the Vajra Rosary, and also in Thurman. Correct me if I'm wrong but they correspond to (five winds),
Life = Vital
Ascending = Respiratory
Pervading = Muscular-motor
Fire-like = Digestive
Descending-cleansing = Evacuative

If so, the Evacuative Wind makes perfect sense as the lower drop.


Obviously, the writers of these materials would not have expected anyone to make reasonable sense out of Mandarava twirling them around like a set of bowling pins, or anyone figuring out Mercury and Vajra Kaya without knowing the words for it. As a Tara devotee, I can say it is commensurately correct that Tara opens *all* of the knots, and so if this suggests that Tara-born Kurukulla does it around the heart, or possibly Pratyangira does, it merits consideration. If the related Kurukulla with a Flask has a bunch of Yakshas up to Parasol who is also Vajradakini, then Upeksa of the heart center as I mentioned previously seems to enter the picture here.

I had to have my breathing corrected by no less than three Dakinis last night because I suddenly exploded with bliss from all sides, and couldn't figure out how to breathe to keep up with it. It caused two shakings to go on at the same time, this one, which was foreground, in which I could perfectly understand your quote from Robert Thurman about bliss going all over the place, and the other one, which was again focused on trying to do the flitting exercise. This one was very strange, there was no downward flow at all to correct because it was in completely clear body, and I couldn't figure out how to move my limbs even though nothing was restraining them. And there was a new Dakini that kept identifying, or so I thought, and then realized it wasn't an identification it was me in that dakini body, who was supposed to be flitting but was repeatedly failing and turning to ash and fingerpointing.

[shaberon]

I am barely sure of the technicalities of this system.

The general impression from Ayurveda is that there is an upwards set of five winds, and a downward set of five winds.

But here it appears crunched into a main set of five winds that has upper and lower together.

Allright, well, at least they are the main operatives during the stage of Pranayama. Evacuative wind is definitely lower, I am not sure if I would use the term "drop", particularly since the intent of operating the wind is to pull the white seed into the red seed, which is the drop in Nirmana Chakra. But that is what the text says, and I am not sure if "drop" constantly comes from "tigle", and when something is so translated, I would have to reverse-engineer how they came up with "enlightenment spirit", and if it is "sunyata jnana vajra", then we have something, whether it is square one for Vajra Tara, or as it is in maybe half of all sadhanas. Here, it came to "brilliant state of the sound and the drop".

We will try to woolgather the intent of this basic set at least. Here is the reaction of the well-versed authorities to the complexity of the rest of the subject:

Many texts name the ten main energy-winds. When I asked Denma Lochö Rinpoche about the names of
the energy-winds beyond the ten main ones, he wished me good luck and told me to follow the text.
Personal Communication. One theory, expressed by Alamka, is that the 108 energy-winds are the ten
primary and secondary energy-winds minus the Pervasive energy-wind which arises only at death, making
nine, times the six major chakras, making fifty-four, times two for the day and the night, making one hundred eight. Alamka 44B. Tsong kha pa 2010, 225-27. Tsong kha pa, analyzing this issue, concludes:
“Whatever the case, though it seems to be the meaning of that Tantra that the hundred and eight wind energies are not non-comprised of the ten wind-energies, as it also seems difficult to posit the pattern of
circulation of each of nine wind-energies in order in each of six wheels, we must still investigate this
question.” Id., 227.

This tantra is not an elaborate mandala pattern like most--it is like a push in the right direction towards a kaleidoscope of shifting Quintessences:


The Tantra does not explicitly identify which elemental mandalas and colors are identified with which
energy-wind. Alamka identifies the Amitabha fire element with the Ascending energy-wind and the
Amoghasiddi wind element with the Equalizing energy-wind, 168B, but makes not specific link to the
others. In his detailed discussion of this practice in the BIL, Tsong kha pa outlines the correspondences
with the other energy-winds indicated above, and gives greater detail on the practice, which involves
meditating the primary Buddha energy-wind with the other goddess-elemental elements, so, e.g., the red
Amitabha Ascending energy-wind emanating from the left nostril is meditated with the four elemental
energy-winds of Pandaravasini, Tara, Locana, and Mamaki in that order, which, influenced by the fire
mandala, appear as red, reddish green, reddish white and reddish yellow, respectively. See Tsong kha pa
2010 at 234.

That sort of thing looks immediately off-balanced like Guhyajnana, since Lotus Family is in the center and then there is Pandara, and nothing for Vajra Family in this case. If you follow the logic, there is no way Vajra can appear, except in their own mandala.

After enumerating Twenty-four Pithas, it says:

In that way,
You should know
One who has
The purity of the places
And the extreme purity
Of the ten stages
As the lord
Of dissolving and enjoying.
By the particular stages
Of engaging and so forth,
[You become] Vajrasattva. //51//


The "commitment body" is called the practitioner's body, and from then on, his identity is Vajrasattva or the one experiencing Gnosis of the various experiences. One who becomes Vajrasattva as meant by Vajra Rosary is also Vajrabhairava, Chakrasamvara, Kalachakra, Manjushri, etc.

The main winds seem pretty close to the English terms you suggested:


Now, further, I will explain
The supreme characteristics
Of the energy-winds.

The Life-energy energy-wind
Abides in the heart,
Born from the particular clan
Of Akshobhya. //52//

The Evacuative energy-wind
That abides in the crotch
Is born from the aspect
Of Ratnasambhava
.
The Ascending energy-wind
Abides at the end
Of the throat,
The nature of Amitabha. //53//

The Fire and Equalizing
Abide at the navel,
The nature
Of Amoghasiddhi.

The Pervading
Abides in all the limbs,
Blessed by Vairocana. //54//

This continuity
Of life-energy and effort
From the continuity
Of the sense doors
Moves at all times,
Explained as "life-energy." //55//

Life-energy, wind, excrement
And, similarly,
Semen and so forth--
The yogi should always know
These downward carrying ones
As the evacuative wind. //56//

Laughing, eating, licking,
Drinking everything, sucking
And whatever
Is always equalized
Is expressed
As "equalizing." //57//

Going upwards and gathering,
Eating and tasting and so forth,
Joined together with wisdom,
You should know as
Upward moving actions. //58//

Pervading and holding
And, similarly, going
And returning and so forth,
Because of pervading
All the joints,
It is explained as "pervading." //59//

So that is conversant with Vairocana being pushed to the East into Earth Element--Physical Form--Pervading Wind.

"Eating" is a terribly esoteric subject here, and another of its major themes is Time. So it is possible Equalizing wind eats normally, and Upward wind eats occultly, since it is joined with wisdom.

It has taken the Triangle we use to generate Inner Heat and moved it into an Amitabha position:

The three-channeled,
Three-cornered Fire Wheel
Is explained as being
Below the throat.
There are three [channels]:
Stainless, clear and fierce. //8//


The channels are defined as Yoginis, and then Guhyajnana or Kurukulla, the Five Dakinis, is the same as the Skandhas or Buddhas:

Thus, you should know
From the guru's speech,
The true stages
Of the channels.
The aggregates and so forth
Will not arise
Without ascertaining
The stages of the channels.
Without the aggregates,
The yogi cannot achieve
Great wisdom. //25//
The body with the nature
Of the five aggregates
Is well known
As the five dakinis.
That very thing,
Through the five elements,
Abides as the five wisdoms.
Therefore, with all effort,
You should know
The channel wheels. //26//

Vajra is a unit which when radiant may be called Sun:

Similarly, the aggregates
Are like a tree,
Having grown by the water
Of the channels.
Increasing, they bestow
The perfect fruit
Of Omniscience.
You should meditate on
The nature of the channels
Through the actualities
Of the forms
Of deities. //28//
Of the two,
There are two touches.1939
If the vajra is present,
At that time
The fire truly blazes.
Then, in the middle
Of the wheel of fire,
The lotuses called wheels1940
Will open stage by stage.1941 //29//
As for this,
From the falling of that
Great bliss of enlightenment spirit
From the channels,
You perfectly achieve
The essence of emanation,
Having condensed [it]
Into a single entity. //30//
It flows down
The sun and moon.
Also, in the center
Of the royal mandala,
You abide in the form
Of a scale.1942
Known also as one cause,
Those two [have]
Two kinds of effects. //31//
[From] the right,
The form of a sun
And [from] the left

1939 Or, per Alamka, “By the two banners of touch coming together.” 129B.

1940 Alamka has mig, “eye.” 129B.

1941 Alamka explains: "Now in order to express the procedure of producing the channels, as the components of that, by the warmth of fire pressuring, the enlightenment spirit emerges and there is a
meeting of the two victory banners of texture, and here texture means lotus. Because of that very thing
being very touchable, it has the nature of a victory banner. 'Present' [lhag] [ancient sense of the word]
[means] having the power of that which is to be protected and accomplished. . . . The center of the navel is
the Emanation Wheel and the two fire wheels abide above, achieving the form of blazing. 'The middle of
the Fire Wheel is the Fire Wheel that abides below the Enjoyment Wheel [in the chest below the
Enjoyment Wheel.] Lotuses having an eye means by the form of blazing because pervaded by heat. 129B.

1942 Alamka explains: "“The vaginal chakra” [means that] the two channels abide like a balancing scale
when you are connected with the yogini in the center of the lotus chakra. When both are brought together,
you abide in the mode of a jewel sack.” 130A.


The form of moon.
When the right sun arises,
The blood becomes bliss. //32//
When the left moon
Is clear,
Bliss is [white],
Like a kunda flower.
The fire that enters
Those two
Abides perfectly
As the seven branches. //33//
At the time
Of the hundred paths,1944
When the previous
Energy wind consciousness
Becomes mistaken,
You abide equably
In the space
Of the father,
And at that time,
You fall under the power
Of lust. //34//
The Secret Place is
The channel possessing
The mark of the moon.
When fire and sun arise,
Driven by extreme lust,
You desire supreme passion.
The faces of
Vajra and lotus
Are mixed together,
[And] the tip of the father
Enters. //35//
At that time,
A seed arises.
From the seed
Arises a living being.
Therefore, you arise perfectly.


1944 I.e. after death.


From the channels.
The wonderful fruit is born. //36//
That very thing
Is also enlightenment spirit.
You hold [it],
Gathering the life-energy.
By attaining wisdom yoga
There is supreme wisdom
And supreme reality,
Great wonderful supreme bliss,
Unexcelled supreme bliss. //37//

It did not tell us what the perfectly-abiding fire of seven branches is, but it appears to be happening when bodhicitta flows down into the two main branch nerves causing Red and White Blisses.





Dividing wheel into wheel,
Following the definitive
Personal instructions
Of the Mahayoga Tantras, //10//
You should know
From the mouth of the guru,
By differentiating each channel,
The characteristics
Of the stage of deity,
The supreme reality
Of consort yoga. //11//
Adding those together,
Completely relying
On one another,
Again they become
Seventy-two.
From the thirty-two channels
Of the place
Of the channel Wheel
Of Great Bliss,
You arise, moreover,
As Chakrasamvara.//12/

From there, you emanate mandala deities, merge back into the Five Families, and then into the Three Vajras. Then there is the dissolving of voids and:

In the perfect state
Of clear light,
There is the characteristic
Of emanating
And withdrawing. //19//
Liberated from consciousness,
Reality sphere, ultimate,
Great bliss, object, subject,
It is stainless
Enlightenment spirit, //20//
The great peace
Of Vajrasattva,
Wonderful non-dual wisdom,
The bliss of
The fourth empowerment
And the supreme state
Of the four ecstasies. //21//

So, from the state of a Trinity is how one goes into the voids themselves.

From here it generally goes into more familiar territory about the Four Joys and so forth, and defines Vajradhara as the seed of non-conceptual mind which is responsible for all the winds. In other words he is like Klista Manas without the Klista--some have tried to call this Alaya Vijnana, others, Vimala. The non-conceptual mind can only really be clear when it is solely mounted on the non-conceptual wind.



Vajra Rosary is mainly explaining Guhyasamaja into Chakrasamvara.


The chakra goddesses given are three faced, six arm forms.

"Arising and disappearing" deals with a secret sun or apparently Marici-alikes in the heart.

It does go on to a thousand deity ocean similar to Dakarnava.

It explains why Vajrasattva--Vajradhara Guru Yoga worked for me. It also seems to "stand on" Paramadya Tantra and be highly complimentary to Equal to Sky or Khasama Tantra. That suggests it may be younger than Samputa Tantra, which is a latter-day synthesis of Vajrasattva.

The main thing that stands out to me is not the complexity, it is the technique of Hum Hoh Muttering, linked to the onset of Citta Chakra. That is something unique and specific. A lot of the rest of it seems to be a close parallel or the same as other sources, such as when it iterates the Bodhisattvas of the body and so forth. Its Chakra goddesses and naming schemes in the more intricate parts are perhaps its own. Some of it has Sanskrit guesses.

This is no beginner's manual, it will not work without Mahasukha Vajrasattva, and its mastery is Complete Buddhahood.

[Agape]

I wonder if you may find any pleasure in this Sanskrit Channel.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLXRj4HIdJA

I happened to replay the Aditya Hrdaya Stotram ( Sun Deity Heart Sutra) 3 times in my personal solar observatory two days ago, at noon time , it turned to be very powerful experience.
It was granted to King Rama by Agastya Muni so that he could defeat Ravana.
We have received very high UV rays at the moment even though it’s October.

It’s totally a “killer” at the moment , gives instant heat stroke.

But a great purifier of everything so people just opened their houses and take everything to the Sun.


Here, similarly a Hymn to Aton ( sung in ancient Egyptian )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oWPXU15K4g


There is strong link and correlation between Old Egyptian and Hindu cultures ,
one that was suppressed by historians and religious philosophers
for centuries in favor of “Aryan ( today’s Persian, Iranian)” cultural exodus
and influence in India however both of them share similar roots
and pathways.

The “Egyptian link” to India and its influence on everything from astronomy, astrology, sciences , iconography of deities, parts of mythology and most importantly the oldest of Vedic hymns has been re-examined only recently by some notable Indian scholars and pandits.

ATON in my opinion relates both to ATMA of Sanskrit and ATMOS - the ATHOM of Greeks.

The correlations are countless if you have an eye for them.


I always think that Old Egyptian culture was very rich in its inside knowledge AND rituals and we have inherited much of it.
Even some of today’s Tibetan temple rituals remind me of Egyptian temple worship and rituals.

Together with our love for coffee, masks and body pasting ..


🙏

[Old Student]

But here it appears crunched into a main set of five winds that has upper and lower together.

Allright, well, at least they are the main operatives during the stage of Pranayama. Evacuative wind is definitely lower, I am not sure if I would use the term "drop", particularly since the intent of operating the wind is to pull the white seed into the red seed, which is the drop in Nirmana Chakra. But that is what the text says, and I am not sure if "drop" constantly comes from "tigle", and when something is so translated, I would have to reverse-engineer how they came up with "enlightenment spirit", and if it is "sunyata jnana vajra", then we have something, whether it is square one for Vajra Tara, or as it is in maybe half of all sadhanas. Here, it came to "brilliant state of the sound and the drop".

This time I think some translator comparisons and some of one of my previous delves into history looking for interconnections to Khotan will help.

The translator comparisons are what I did with the winds in my last post -- on the left are the terms as someone has translated them from Tibetan, and that is the most popular translation, evidenced by the fact that it pretty much corresponds to the Wikipedia entry for "Lung - Winds". On the right is Robert Thurman's delineation of the same five winds. The wind that is popularly called "descending" or "descending-cleansing", whose domain is downward expressing bodily fluids/excretions, is the one he calls "Evacuating", probably for exactly that reason. The Vajra Rosary guy has used Thurman's terminology, so he also calls it the evacuating or evacuative wind. The reason I said it made sense to mingle it with the lower drop is because it includes semen and menstrual blood.

As for the sort of many-faceted view of "drops", there is this: The patterns of burial/charnel/cremation that were very much in flux in the Buddhist World during the sort of golden age of all the universities, which you've alluded to several times. In the Tibetan plateau, and as well to the north among the Yenisei Kyrgyz who's empire followed the Uyghur Empire at almost exactly the time the Tibetan Empire broke down, they practiced sky burial. You can figure out who practiced it by referencing when other cultures label them "cannibals", having misinterpreted them cutting and packing the bodies to transport them to the charnel grounds. At the charnel grounds, people considered saints or some kind of sattvas were cremated and then the followers would sift through the ashes looking for "drops", which some contemporaries described as rice grain sized things that had been turned into pearl-like gems by the fire, that it was believed only happened when the essence of a great buddha-mind had been cremated. These are also known as "drops".

So "drops" can be hard jewels as well as anything else, and if they are, they are very powerful relics, the kind stored in a newly built stupa or something. But you get the idea as to them shining and being hard to open and all that.



This continuity
Of life-energy and effort
[...]
So that is conversant with Vairocana being pushed to the East into Earth Element--Physical Form--Pervading Wind.

"Eating" is a terribly esoteric subject here, and another of its major themes is Time. So it is possible Equalizing wind eats normally, and Upward wind eats occultly, since it is joined with wisdom.

It has taken the Triangle we use to generate Inner Heat and moved it into an Amitabha position:

The three-channeled,
Three-cornered Fire Wheel
Is explained as being
Below the throat.
There are three [channels]:
Stainless, clear and fierce. //8//

Absolutely fascinating. So Kelsang Gyatso describes the winds as being like the forward edge of a wave, the bullnose and toothed structure of a wave. The flows of blisses inside of me when I do my shaking are either these winds directly or they are very similar in description to that, and to the verses in this rosary themselves. Maybe I've been using the wrong term for them.

When I visualized Vajrasattva, a long time ago when I was trying to do the exercises in Lama Yeshe's book to learn something about Tummo, I did as he said, and visualized a white bodhisattva with a white consort, etc. But if taken to the very literal, "Vajrasattva" means lightning being. This rosary says, quoting you above,


In that way,
You should know
One who has
The purity of the places
And the extreme purity
Of the ten stages
As the lord
Of dissolving and enjoying.
By the particular stages
Of engaging and so forth,
[You become] Vajrasattva.

Do you become Vajrasattva -- the white deity in the mandalas etc., or do you become a lightning being? I did at several points become rainbow liquid (or maybe now I should say winds?) covered with lightning.

This text is translated into Tibetan "in the last part of the first millennium." So it is pre-reform, pre-Atisha Dipankar, and during the Buddhist World period.


The center of the navel is
the Emanation Wheel and the two fire wheels abide above, achieving the form of blazing. 'The middle of
the Fire Wheel is the Fire Wheel that abides below the Enjoyment Wheel [in the chest below the
Enjoyment Wheel.] Lotuses having an eye means by the form of blazing because pervaded by heat. 129B.

1942 Alamka explains: "“The vaginal chakra” [means that] the two channels abide like a balancing scale
when you are connected with the yogini in the center of the lotus chakra. When both are brought together,
you abide in the mode of a jewel sack.” 130A.

So there is a wheel below the throat at the top of the chest. I keep having this, and I hadn't found it anywhere, thanks.
1942 is eerily similar to something that has happened in my shakings repeatedly, though I'm guessing that in the rosary, this is a physical act of karmamudra here, not a juxtaposition of physical and clear bodies presaging turning into a desert.



The form of moon.
When the right sun arises,
The blood becomes bliss. //32//
When the left moon
Is clear,
Bliss is [white],
Like a kunda flower.
The fire that enters
Those two
Abides perfectly
As the seven branches. //33//
At the time
Of the hundred paths,1944
When the previous
Energy wind consciousness
Becomes mistaken,
You abide equably
In the space
Of the father,
And at that time,
You fall under the power
Of lust. //34//
The Secret Place is
The channel possessing
The mark of the moon.
When fire and sun arise,
Driven by extreme lust,
You desire supreme passion.
The faces of
Vajra and lotus
Are mixed together,
[And] the tip of the father
Enters. //35//
At that time,
A seed arises.
From the seed
Arises a living being.
Therefore, you arise perfectly.


1944 I.e. after death.

So no wonder it was so deathly cold.

I bumbled my way through a flitting last night. You never know just how much baggage you are carrying until it all comes spilling out in a period of confusion. So I have a laundry list of stuff to "purify", the best I can say for it is that it isn't actually scary -- just extremely confusing.

[Old Student]

The “Egyptian link” to India and its influence on everything from astronomy, astrology, sciences , iconography of deities, parts of mythology and most importantly the oldest of Vedic hymns has been re-examined only recently by some notable Indian scholars and pandits.

Possibly, since the inventors of seagoing ships were the Harappans, and the Indian world did trade off the coast of Yemen, Egypt, and possibly Zanj quite early.

Ankhnaten, though, is 80 years or so before the Trojan War. His story and the turmoil that resulted in his family ending the dynasty due to his changing the state religion and moving the capital to Thebes, is the subject of the Greek myth of Oedipus. He would be at about the end of the Vedic period, in corresponding Indian terms (the Vedic period is 1500-1200 B.C.E. and Ankhnaten is 1351-1334 B.C.E.)

Those are both beautiful chants, Agape. Thanks.

[shaberon]

I have always wanted to do the "Air Burial".

If you can sense what the tantra means by a Water Nose, I don't see how it could be anything other than quite close to its intended meaning.

Because lightning is an accepted term for Vajra, one could not say there is no Lightning Being.

In the same way, one could perhaps say that Vajrayana is not just the Lightning "Fast" Path, but just a Lightning Path.

I believe this is so because he is a hypostatis of Vajradhara, and the hidden driver is not so much Electric but Magnetic, something like the solar corona. We are, to some extent, looking at how electro-magnetic forces respond to consciousness. Jiva could be described as a momentary lightning flash of the One Life.

Permittivity of Free Space is a weird principle which necessitates that if the planet did not act like an infinite capacitor and pulse lightning at around 1000 Hz, all of our energy would bleed out into space.

Vajradhara must pulse Vajrasattvas, or, Dharma dies in that world and its denizens devour each other.


The tantra does explain "Rati" deities by saying this deity exists wherever Ecstasy of that Family is present. Someone who has Ecstasy for Vairocana is Locana.

It seems to me, Karmamudra has a dual meaning, one being yes it is a sex rite, and two it is still an inner meaning which is simply hyper enhanced by sex.

“The vaginal chakra” [means that] the two channels abide like a balancing scale when you are connected with the yogini in the center of the lotus chakra.

Swing Recitation; a fulcrum. Yes I think that one speaks to what apparently would be a common experience of yogic sex. Then you would probably know what he is talking about as to how this feels. The second part seems to indicate a further refinement of that, and entering the Avadhut:

When both are brought together, you abide in the mode of a jewel sack.”

Now I, what? I do? I am not sure quite how this is supposed to feel.

It is something like the Vajra Sun is a penis emitting light rays into the lotus, until the Citta Chakra is functional and a Sun is there.



Vajra Rosary appears consistent with our same definition for Mental Object. As Bodhisattvas of the Sixth Sense Object, it says:

Summoning Dharmadhatuvajra,
You make offerings
To Mañjuvajra. //13//

The word "summon" is defined to mean binding by power of the winds.

The Three Channels are Sun, Moon, and Fire, so the Seven Branch Fire which enters the Sun and Moon is most likely attached to, includes, or is the Avadhut. Perhaps this is the Seven Tongues of Agni or Jvalamukhi. Maybe it is the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment.

It still conveys the mystique of reticence about Seven, aside from having mentioned Seven Substances. However it does represent this in a sort of Elemental aspect:

Thus having taught the division of the aggregates through seven types of
meaning, in order to teach the division of the elements, summarizing the branch of that,
“The four of Locana and so forth,” [meaning] the nature of the four consorts. “Are
considered as the three realms” [means] conceptualized through the nature of the four
elements of earth and so forth.

We would have reason to suggest the lower realms are withdrawn and what is experienced is the Formless Realm, but, itself, composed of three planes, which are the Three Formless Agnishvattas over the Four Barhisads of Form or dense elements of the Puranas, Triangle over Square.

In expressing the purity of the senses, the Commentary reaches the Sixth and says:

Thus having taught the purity of the tactile sense faculty, in order to discuss the
purity of the mental sense faculty, he says “Enjoying particular mental experiences,”
[meaning] having relied on a particular mental experience, the characteristic of the sense
medium of [mental] phenomena,2498 the nature of the seven substances, and, having relied
on the object possessor,2499 that which is the conception of the characteristic of various
conceptualities is the nature of conceptuality. [“]Differentiating that[”] [means] as
distinct. As for that, “completely” [means] entirely, by meditating on the form of
emptiness, he is the meditator. As for “Is stated as the “mental consciousness,” if
someone asks [why] it is known to the worldly as “Mañjushri,” it is because you know
the intrinsic naturelessness of that.

2498 Skt. dharmayatana, ayatana being translated here as “medium.” As Thurman notes: The word
ayatana is usually translated as “base,” but the Skt., Tib. and Ch. all indicate ‘something through which the
senses function’ rather than a basis from which the function; hence ‘medium’ is suggested. Thurman 1995,
155.

2499 I.e. the subject, here the mind.




In the Abhisambodhi pattern, you get Sun, Moon, and then a third phase ruled by Amitabha (Infinite Light), the Interval, Twilight, Mtshams, or Bardo period; Tsong kha pa discusses mtshams, “interval” or “twilight” in some detail, and explains the Five Stages’ discussion of the term in the context of this stage of manifest enlightenment in his The Ultimate Personal
Instruction: Explanation of the Stage of Manifest Enlightenment, Man ngag gi mthar thug mngon par
byang chub pa’i rim pa’i bshad pa rjes mdzad pa bzhugs so.

Lotus Family's command is:

“(AROLIK,” [“])[A] [means] everything; [“]RO[“] [means] from cyclic existence; [and]
“LIK” [means] going, thus AROLIK. [This is] the interpretive meaning. “A RA O”
going into clear light by means of the three wisdoms, thus AROLIK. [This is] the
definitive meaning.

This is similar to the Fourth Yoga or Dharana because:


The next chapter, fifty-two, concerns itself with “Explaining the Vowels and
Consonants in Detail,” but here the Tantra is not talking about grammar. Rather, the
vowels are luminance and the consonants radiance, “produced from the state of clear
light.”1093 “From the secret joining of these two,1094 great bliss which is produced in the
center is ‘the commitment of the alphabet.” While the Tantra provides no further
details on this practice, Tsong kha pa notes that “you will achieve the clear light of
retention…with the yoga of the subtle vowels and consonants abiding in the navel
channel….”


1093 Id., v. 2. See also Tsong kha pa 2010, 293-94 (summarizing the Root Text of the Concise Five Stages,
attributed to Naropa, to the same effect).

1094 I.e. the joining of luminance and radiance. Because this chapter is preceded by the chapter on the night
and the day, i.e. luminance and radiance, and followed by the chapter on the “interval” just preceding
enlightenment, one wonders if the “joining” of luminance and radiance, manifested by the joining of the
drop of white enlightenment spirit from the crown and the red female hormonal substance from below, is a
reference to luminance-imminence, nyer thob, saadhyalokopalabdha., usually characterized by utter
darkness, a reference absent here.


Having described the “night and day” in chapter fifty-one as luminance and
radiance, respectively, in chapter fifty-three the Tantra turns to the “interval,” mtshams.
The context here is the very final stages of the enlightenment process, particularly the
fourth of the five stages, abhisambodhi, manifest enlightenment. The interval is the very instant, so subtle as to be “inconceivable,” before manifest enlightenment. It is “free from light and non-light,” i.e. it is visible and
invisible, apparent and non-apparent. It arises from the wisdom vajra,1100 “the supremely
peaceful place at the peak of the knot, like the core of a pea.” While the interval is not
the end, it is this instant – the interval -- which “purifies cyclic existence,”.


1100 Id. The wisdom vajra is “in the lotus bud of the heart, flanked by the Life-energy energy-wind above
and the Evacuative energy-wind below.” VR 15A, ch. 6, v. 8.

There is a Night Lord because:

17. The night is the part of luminance; the spreading of the sun rays is luminance-radiance;
and luminance-imminence is engaged repeatedly through your own instinctual natures. What
is neither night nor day nor the interval is free of the instinctual natures. It is explained by the
guru the moment of enlightenment, the object of the yogi.
18. The end of the interval goes beyond the entire mass of imperishable darkness and, here,
the instant before the sun rises is explained as the stainless, perfect end. The supreme master
teaches outer enlightenment to the disciple, dispelling the darkness [vinihatatimiro as
contrasted with rab rib bral bas, “impartially.”] In an instant, he will achieve the unpolluted
inner bliss of a Buddha’s enlightenment.
(My translation).


See also Thurman 1995, 257. In his The Ultimate Personal Instruction: Explanation of the Stage of
Manifest Enlightenment, man ngag gi mthar thug mngon par byang chub pa’i rim pa’i bshad pa rjes mdzad
pa bzhugs so, Tsong kha pa, explaining this passage from the PK, says: “By ’The night is the part of
luminance; the spreading of the sun rays is luminance-radiance; and luminance-imminence is engaged
repeatedly through your own instinctual natures’ [and] by ‘What is neither night nor day nor the interval is
free of the instinctual natures,’ [Nagarjuna means that] it is the joining of the four emptinesses and the
dawn.” 7B (my translation). The role of the instinctual natures [rang bzhin, pra$kti] in the stages beyond
mind isolation is a topic requiring further research. Denma Löcho Rinpoche explained to me that the
instinctual natures are eliminated at the end of mind isolation and that the reverse nyer thob that follows
final mind isolation does not have the "fainting" that follows dissolution of the seven ignorance instincts, so
that there would be no “interval” or "gap" there. Personal Communication 10/7/08. Professor Thurman
strongly disagrees with my translation of verse 17, and would translate it: “Twilight is luminant imminence,
and gradually one’s instinctual natures become nonexistent.”
In the BIL, Tsong kha pa puts it, “[T]he process of birth and death is caused by wind-energy, and the arisal
of the four voids is during the period between the dissolving and arising of the energy mobilizing the
natural instincts. Thus, the natural instincts are derived from the increased movement of the three
luminances, and thus it is said that the three luminances are the root of the natural instincts of all beings.”
Tsong kha pa 2010, 256.

Given the language of PK, chapter 4, verse 17, it appears that the instinctual natures are still, somehow,
active, even their “last traces” as Prof. Thurman says. If that is the case, how are they active? I wonder
whether, at this final stage, the instincts have been purged of their “negative” aspects and operate as pure
energy, fueling the transformation to Buddhahood, much in the way that the entire subtle body is
transformed into energy/deity, which then operates in Buddhahood, where a Buddha uses anything and
everything in the service of enlightened activities. Or, perhaps, following Tsong kha pa’s statement in the
BIL above, the instincts exist during luminance etc., but are not “mobilized.”

We find "joining of the four emptinesses and Dawn". Here it is like sticking Marici into the center of Catuskoti.

[shaberon]

It seems to me that Vajra Rosary is the elucidation of Father Tantra generally. It is mostly descriptive of Vajrasattva. It is not really a Yogini tantra and so it is a lot harder to read from the view of goddesses, and so it is more like a one-pointed compliment to all the Tara and Dakini sadhanas.

I would argue this is similar to saying that even if you are keenly able to follow the goddess experience/initiation teachings, at some point it does require an unavoidable male deity as represented by Seven Syllable deity.

In this book, Yoga is more consistently described as the presence of Vajra, whether this means male member as any kind, physical, subtle, or supreme. I think if we just look at a regular dharma practice vajra, it is a safe comparison to say it is a central seed with loops of upper and lower wind, which utilizes and radiates through eight heart petals, and overall this makes the Ten Directions. The main difference about this seed is that it is not the mentally-dormant biological one, it is that yogic stage which is drifting beyond the throat nectar, loosening the heart knot, and "handshaking" the upper and lower winds there, sort of like Vase Breathing Round Two.

Although it is difficult to interpret what it says about goddesses, their function is mandatory. It will not give us an equivalent of Kurukulla or Guhyajnana sadhanas. A relevant chapter is plainly titled about Four Goddesses and Four Chakras, however it says little but apply the method and you get the strands of six arm forms, and so it just names all the sixty-four Nirmana Chakra goddesses and describes their form.

By dividing the families
Into Action and Vajra,
Lotus and Wheel
And so forth,
By differentiation
Of the four stages,
Through the processes
Of the channels [on which]
They perfectly sit.2035 //2//



One would expect the "four goddesses" are leaders or the center of the retinue, and so if we look at the simple one, we get:


These deities perfectly sit
In the center
Of the eight channels
Of the Reality2067 chakra.

You should know [them] as:

Vajra Sphere,2068Lady Guru,2069
Vajra Consort, 2070 Great Power,2071 //16//
Vajra Dancer,2072 Vajra Face,2073
Vajra Dharma,2074 Good Vajra,2075
And Vajra Music.2076

They have the character
Of nine
In the Reality chakra. //17//
[With a] form of three faces
And six hands,
They sit well
In the Bodhisattva posture.

2067 The heart chakra

2068 Skt. vajradhatu [?]. 2069 Skt. guruji [?]. 2070 Skt. vajramudra [?]. 2071 Skt. mah!bali [?]. 2072 Skt. vajralasya [?]. 2073 Skt. vajr!nana [?]. 2074 Skt. vajradharmi [?]. 2075 Skt. vajrabhadri [?]. 2076 Skt. vajrav!dita [?].

They are blue with Vajra and Sword as their main items. Here, it appears to name a central deity first, Vajra Sphere, followed by the eight petals. There is admittedly no Sanskrit original for these deities, and, we happen to be familiar with most of these originals, instead of knowing how to translate from Tibetan. Because of this, we expect Music to usually be in an intermediate or final position, and then we get everything about Gandharvas and so forth. If Vajra Face is correct, this is almost literally Vajra Mukhi, which is Vajravarahi's original conversion name. Great Power may be subsumed by Kumari.

As for the whole lot of them:


The vow of body,
Speech and mind
Is the supreme vow.
The thatness of the goddesses
Is supreme.
They always remain sleepy2093
In the body. //35//
Served the enjoyments
Of the five desires,
They are perfectly delighted
By the offerings,
Intoxicated by the bliss
Of the [joining of ]
Vajra and lotus,
The supreme state
Of Vajrasattva.
Having delighted,
Again they refresh.
They will accomplish the activities Of peace and so forth;
Of this there is
No doubt. //36//
Concentration, yoga,
And so forth,
Practice and mantra,
Activities of shape
And so forth
Are not necessary.
Just a tidbit born
From the teachings
Of the guru is supreme.
Because of this
You should please the guru
With effort and attainments. //37//

From the realization of the Mahayoga Tantra Glorious Vajra Rosary, the twenty-seventh
chapter analyzing the stages of the four goddesses of the four chakras.


2093 Per Alamka, indistinct within the channels. 180B.


After manifesting all the petals of the four chakras, the next chapter is Marici-like, although rather abstruse:

Chapter Twenty-Eight

Arising and Disappearing

Then, moreover,
The characteristics
Of arising and disappearing
Will be explained.
The channels are
Supreme yoga,
The source
Of all attainments. //1//
By turning the mind
From objects in front,
You won’t go there.2094
Existing within
The previous instincts,
The sense powers appear
At that time. //2//
Because of that,
They wake up.
They remain respectively
In the channels.
Having awakened
By that awakening,
The goddess herself [arises]
From the chakra. //3//
That is described
As the process of arising.
I will also explain disappearing.
Objects also lack substantiality.2096
When you mentally engage,
They abide elsewhere. //4//
If the instincts are not awakened,

2094 All of the recensions of Alamka noted in the Sde dge critical edition have der ni ‘gro, “go there”
instead of the Lhasa (and Stok Palace’s) VR’s der mi ‘gro, “don’t go there,” but they also have la instead of
the VR’s las, so the meaning is similar. 2095 For the variant reading from the beginning of this chapter to here, see also Ala*ka 25B.

2096 Following Alamka’s dngos po med, “lack substantiality.” 181B.


The channels will not arise
And, for that reason,
The awakening
Of the gods
Will not happen. //5//
Actual bliss is in the center
Of the heart.
The clear light
Of the Buddha sun [is achieved]
Through the form
Of grasped and grasping.
As for that, relying
On the twelve light rays,2097 //6//
Increasing Light, Light Ray,
Radiant, Clear, Shining,
And Blazing Light,
And the eye [sense power]
And so forth,
You grasp the outer form
And so forth. //7//
Illuminating Darkness,
Light, Shining,
Clear Beauty, Clear Light,
And Clear Sun
Are types of outer form
And so forth.
These six are asserted below. //8//
Whatever goddesses arise,
They arise as the wisdom sun.
Furthermore, when
They disappear,
They supremely disappear. //9//
This is the supreme reality
Of yoga,
With the character
Of arising and disappearing.
Following the secret vajra,
You should know [it]
From the lineage guru. //10//

2097 I.e. the goddesses.


There are six Grasper goddesses and six Grasped goddesses.

This is the same split of Vairocani and Varnani.

Somehow, the heart vajra relies on these as twelve rays. There is nothing else about them, at least not here. The heart nose "holds its own characteristic", Svalaksana.

The next chapter pertains to producing Ecstasy always in a four times four pattern by Vajrasattva.

We have just found Nagarjuna's intent is Dawn in the center of "that".

This brief chapter may be all the Rosary has to say about such a Dawn.

However it has a shifty way of ascribing it to the last instant of darkness before dawn, i. e. as part of Abhisambodhi:

Luminance serves as part
of the night/ The day is radiance.
Dawn is imminence./ Thus, the characteristics of luminance and so forth
Are not night, and are not dawn or day,/ [But] cause the abandoning/
Of the conceptual energy-winds. //4//
It is instant enlightenment,/ [Its] character is called momentary.
[from verse 5].


The epitome of all attainments is the supreme wisdom of all Buddhas. This is
described in terms of the fourth empowerment, which follows the three signs of
luminance, radiance and imminence, at which time the intelligent yogi sees reality.
The three luminances cause the five clairvoyances and, in that sense, are all like the day.
However, on another hermeneutic level, the three luminances correspond to parts of the
day: luminance as part of the night; radiance as the day; and imminence as the dawn; but
on yet another level of meaning, the ultimate meaning, have nothing to do with the times
of day; but cause the abandoning of the conceptual energy-winds. The abandoning of
these energy-winds is “instant enlightenment” (skad cig mngon byang chub), “one instant
of emptiness,” beyond conceptuality, the “supreme instant.” The yogi attains bodily
stability by holding enlightenment spirit at the tip of the vajra, applies it to energy-wind,
and then, using the mantra HUM HOH, brings the enlightenment spirit upwards.
“Integration” (zung du ‘jug pa), the fifth and final of the five stages, makes
possible the attainment of the Vajra Seal, and is attained by merging the creation and
perfection stages, rejecting the duality of samsara and nirvana, or mixing conventional

and ultimate reality. Before that, there is the first stage, vajra repetition, where
“knowing the characteristics of energy-wind, you cut the winds of conceptuality.” Then
there is the second stage, referred to here as “perception of mind” (sems la dmigs pa).
Then the third stage, self-consecration (bdag la byin brlab), where the eight attainments
are accomplished, is followed by the fourth stage, where one knows the division of the
luminances, “manifest enlightenment” (mngon par byang chub). Then, there is the final
stage of integration, where “you gather all attainments.” This, the Tantra says, “You will
accomplish in this very life without any doubt,” by “entering into non-conceptuality
through the concentration of integration in the great attainment of the Great Seal.”

[Old Student]

“The vaginal chakra” [means that] the two channels abide like a balancing scale when you are connected with the yogini in the center of the lotus chakra.

Swing Recitation; a fulcrum. Yes I think that one speaks to what apparently would be a common experience of yogic sex. Then you would probably know what he is talking about as to how this feels. The second part seems to indicate a further refinement of that, and entering the Avadhut:

When both are brought together, you abide in the mode of a jewel sack.”

Now I, what? I do? I am not sure quite how this is supposed to feel.

It is something like the Vajra Sun is a penis emitting light rays into the lotus, until the Citta Chakra is functional and a Sun is there.

This is going to be a little complicated. There is something in my shaking which I refer to in my notes as, "Dao sheng yi," as in 道生一, "The Dao begets the One," from chapter 42 of Laozi, Daode Jing. The full paragraph there, "The Dao begets One, the One begets Two, the Two beget Three, the Three beget the Ten Thousand Things," is actually the thing in my shaking, and it occurs to me in Chinese (Dao sheng yi, Yi sheng er, Er sheng san, San sheng Wan Wu.).

So what it refers to, those words come up pretty loudly when the following happens, which is a fairly confusing mix of clear body (female) and physical body (male):

Dao sheng yi: There is a movement of bliss downward near the surface, it happens as the clear body turns from its usual color to dark green and black and metallic looking. It isn't a downward flow (pre-ejaculation) and does not need to be redirected, it is a kind of male organ only quasi-physical (does not need to be in sync with the physical one, is not part of the clear body). It is one -- one strip, if you will of bliss in the center. So -- Dao sheng yi.

Yi sheng er: The strip splits, and there are two stripes of bliss which open outward. These are female organ (labia) and in the same quasi- relationship to clear body as the first was to physical. They are more intense than the one, they move outward and sort of come to rest deep inside the sort of femoral artery femoral nerve area at the bottom and up slightly into the abdomen at the top. There are two, so Yi sheng er.

Er sheng san: These two move together and press, and this does start to feel like clear body and is still very female and then they open again and the one is between them. Everything is quite distinct, the two labia and the center penis are all felt at once, it is very much like as if they are conjoined, except for that they are pointing wrongly for that. The bliss is yet again as intense, and at this point the concept of physical and clear bodies is very tenuous.

San sheng wan wu: The feelings of bliss move up into my pyramidalis muscles and clench. These are two tiny muscles between the pubic bone and the bottom of the abdominal rectus, and not everybody has them, apparently, they were muscles/nerve endings that were woken up by precisely this shaking sequence. When that happens, they hold and the floor of my abdomen and pelvic area (the back, I would guess, I've never been clear) opens up, or the top melts away or something, and the bottom part of me opens out to the desert. Although I frequently get involved in goings on there, if without any other thing I end up conscious of my body at all, and of not being a desert, then it will be my clear body, in the initially extremely scary state I call being "completely in my clear body" because I have zero muscle memory at that point of my physical body, and (this is the scary part) therefore no toe hold that shows an obvious way back to being "me". So the last part is -- San sheng wan wu -- the three become the ten thousand things.

So with that kind of odd digression in hand, when I read those lines, I was like, "Oh, that's understandable, Dao sheng yi." And that's why I said, but it's probably a reference to karmamudra, because I've never heard of anyone else having the experience I just related, which, if one sticks to the straight and narrow arrow of the usual path, can be seen as an elaborately experienced kind of shedding one more layer of self, I guess.


Vajra Rosary appears consistent with our same definition for Mental Object. As Bodhisattvas of the Sixth Sense Object, it says:

Summoning Dharmadhatuvajra,
You make offerings
To Mañjuvajra. //13//

The word "summon" is defined to mean binding by power of the winds.

Wow. That's quite a find, it even includes a form of lightning again!


The night is the part of luminance; the spreading of the sun rays is luminance-radiance;
and luminance-imminence is engaged repeatedly through your own instinctual natures. What
is neither night nor day nor the interval is free of the instinctual natures. It is explained by the
guru the moment of enlightenment, the object of the yogi.
[...]
Twilight is luminant imminence,
and gradually one’s instinctual natures become nonexistent.

This seems like an argument over whether the non-thing defined as the absence of two other things has anything in it.


Denma Löcho Rinpoche explained to me that the
instinctual natures are eliminated at the end of mind isolation and that the reverse nyer thob that follows
final mind isolation does not have the "fainting" that follows dissolution of the seven ignorance instincts, so
that there would be no “interval” or "gap" there. Personal Communication 10/7/08

Without explicitly equating the two, this shows kind of if I want to find out what other people call the dissolve, I should look for this word "fainting" instead of blanking out.

I do need to tell you that the Dakinis referred to what I've been calling "flitting, during one of the discussions of it, as "skillful means". I took it as a clear reference to the paramita listed as that in the Avatamsaka Sutra, and that reference was intended because they are aware I am working my way through it (p.64, i.e. not very far, so far). I looked it up and it's a translation of upaya when its not a synonym for compassion.

[shaberon]

Without explicitly equating the two, this shows kind of if I want to find out what other people call the dissolve, I should look for this word "fainting" instead of blanking out.

I do need to tell you that the Dakinis referred to what I've been calling "flitting, during one of the discussions of it, as "skillful means". I took it as a clear reference to the paramita listed as that in the Avatamsaka Sutra, and that reference was intended because they are aware I am working my way through it (p.64, i.e. not very far, so far). I looked it up and it's a translation of upaya when its not a synonym for compassion.

We just brought over our Fitting Mannequin.

Agreed, the fitting that you are talking about is an Upaya, it cannot possibly be a Karuna yet because what Mandarava is doing to you is a Karuna. It is compassionate, complete, and completely effective.

Compassionate well-wishes would be defined in Buddhism as mental illness. If we cannot do what we are trying to do, then we cannot really deliver the compassion, and so we are just picking up a skill and build it up to Successful Accomplishment or Bell. Once you have some kind of ability, then if you see a need you are supposed to render service selflessly, like a field medic.

Upaya Paramita is above Prajna Paramita. This prajna is mainly like a refined cycle of all the previous paramitas, and so the skillful means presumes that all works right. Prajna-Upaya is the basic non-dual Vajrasattva or Androgyne.

Upāya (उपाय) also refers to the “manifold means” as defined in the Dharma-saṃgraha (section 111):

sarva-sattvāvabodhaka (that which understands all beings),
sattvārthābhāvaka (that which develops the welfare of beings),
kṣipra-sukhābhisambodhi (that which awakens quickly and pleasantly).


Upāya (उपाय, “means”) refers to the “process of various experiences through which the Sādhaka has to pass before the deity is realised and visualised”.—The Guhyasamāja (chapter 18) calls this process Upāya (means) which is recognised as of four kinds.

The four upāyas are:—

Sevā (worship),
Upasādhana,
Sādhana,
Mahāsādhana.

Sevā (worship) is again sub-divided into two, namely, Sāmānya (ordinary) and Uttama (excellent). Of these two, the Sāmānya-sevā consists of four Vajras: first, the conception of Śūnyatā; second, its transformation into the germ-syllable; third, its evolution in the form of a deity, and the fourth, the external representation of the deity.




Yes I think the Daoist "start counting" motor is basically the same thing as discussed in Vajra Rosary, or, in the Rosary, it is re-defined and updated as it is found in different chakras. The Three Noses are the Secret Nose, i. e. the tip of the penis or vagina, the Reality Nose (heart), and the literal facial nose, considering the Ajna as a type of Wind Chakra.

It is similar in that it is based in the same fractal or hologram.

I have not really experienced the body thing literally in that way. In my transgressions, they have included self-generating as a certain kind of red woman, which I guess seemed more like a total replacement than a mingling. I may not have been very good at it, since I had never done anything like it, and they say you are not supposed to embody the deity without the empowerment. You can do the Samanya Seva as mentioned above. By "deity" means a Yidam, since there is no possible way to get rid of the Tathagatas and Yoginis and so forth that are one's body/mind/aura.

The closest thing to it is Vajrasattva who possesses the Unwasted Vajra and the Mahasukha.

Vajra Sun and Lotus is the main symbol of sexual union in Vajra Rosary. I cannot say it exactly says "and this is Vajra Surya from Sarvadurgati Parishodana and/or Ratnasambhava" but it is hard to shake the similarity, especially if Ratna is the lower wind. It is puzzling, because it seems to shift Amoghasiddhi "into" the Nirmana Chakra. Most other advanced tantras place him in the root.

Although in one chapter it does use the term "drop" for the Downward wind having been lifted up, it does distinguish a "stationary drop":

The character of vajra birth
Dwells in the center
Of the navel lotus. //4//
It is explained as
A stationary drop,
Known as the state
Of commitment,
And it is filled up
With the supreme nectar.
It has all forms,
But is formless;
It is well known
As vajra. //5//
It has the nature
Of the five wisdoms:
Mirror; equality, individuating,
All-accomplishing
And pure Reality Sphere. //6//
Known as the actuality of those,
The vajra is one’s own
Supreme experience
It dwells in the great space,
Peaceful impermanent,
And unaddicted,
The basis of Vajrasattva.
You should know [this]
From the lineage guru. //7//

By "unaddicted", it is liberating Klista Manas which it usually calls Addicted Mind.



Fainting is mentioned a couple times:

In chapter thirty nine, the Tantra teaches that the abode of the Life-energy energy-wind is, contrary to what may be thought in the world, in the secret anus, the energy center between the perineum and the tip of the penis, or, as Alamka notes, the womb or womb channel. The energy of this center is inherently non-conceptual, and is the original energy in the production of living beings, generating consciousness in process leading to birth, “fainting” in the move from clear light to the other empties, then to the production of the elements, aggregates, sense media, instinctual natures and so forth.




Chapter Fifty-Seven

The Character of the Goddess

Then spoke the Vajra Lord:
Those who realize
The bliss of yoga
Through the nature
Of dividing the channels,
The supreme character
Of the goddess,
Should always play
With the body,
Explained as its deities. //1//
The body that dances
Wholly ecstatic
With constant all-bliss
Is completely pervaded
By all-bliss,
Expressed as the [male] deities. //2//
The arising of
The instants of
Ecstasy, Supreme Ecstasy,
Transcendent and Innate,
And amusement,
Intense flirting,
Fainting and waking: 2322
These are explained
As goddesses. //3//
When manifesting externally,
She becomes as
The perfect union,
Rousing the channels
Of the body,
Thus explained
As the yogini. //4//

2322 Orgasm and revival?




From trying to find patterns and clues in Vajra Rosary, this is mostly pretty close to Chakrasamvara, such as an exposition of Mantras for the Ten Wrathful Ones, and so we can sift out Amrita Kundalin All-purpose Banishing mantra, it is written in Sanskribetan, but the mantras are probably all fairly standard, including a broken-up Sumbha Ni Sumbha. You can see things in it like Basu Dhari which you might not be able to search normally or comprehend unless it is tidied up to Vasudhara.

It assumes you will be able to do what we call Vajra Kilaya.

Its symbol for the sixth sense:

And the mental consciousness
As the deer (ena or black deer, "Indian antelope")

They give sartula as "Tiger", but, Katyayani is Shardulavara Vahana which means she rides a Lion.



Fifty-four is probably the largest chapter, giving twenty rituals of the Generation Stage mandala.

The majority of the whole thing is small chapters like "Arising and Disappearing" or the one above.


There were only a few more areas that stood out as expressing something uncommon:

Forty-seven expresses the Moods as tantric channels.

Inner Essence Fire Offering again is equal to Agni Homa.

Three Jewels has its own chapter.

Iron into Gold is the state where one can get a consort, and this is said in the final chapter which is a bit large but focuses final attainment. Probably already quoted from it.

So this does have several interesting things to say, however, the main thing that still screams out at me is the complete welding of the death subject and Vajra Kaya to Bliss experienced from the uvula by combining Khecari Mudra with Manasa Japa.

In my personal imbalances, I went into mysticism mostly with a sensitive awareness in death, and I guess it was noticeably later like a year or so before it caught on that bliss could have something to do with it, or that there even was such a thing. From that point, I was probably functioning just for the bliss itself and abandoning any other insights and so forth.

By "death", I am not so much meaning the moment of death, but the state of death or i. e. "wandering the bardo" or Kama Loka, Deathlessness or Vajra Kaya being a completely lucid change from the ordinary deluded experience. I suppose when you append the Bliss aspect properly, you experience Sukhavati in the Akanistha. If you can perfect the Upaya of this, you are a Tulku. The Rosary is perhaps the Book of Mahasukha Vajra Kaya.

I think it is worth extracting the Moods and a few other bits.

[Old Student]

We just brought over our Fitting Mannequin.
Grin. Flitting -- like the flitting of a butterfly's wings. Flit through is sort of go sliding through someone's consciousness or world with no more effect -- but to use a modern metaphor, no less effect -- than one beat of a butterfly's wings.


Agreed, the fitting that you are talking about is an Upaya, it cannot possibly be a Karuna yet because what Mandarava is doing to you is a Karuna. It is compassionate, complete, and completely effective.

Yes. It's my Upaya, it's their Karuna. I know this because I was very torn up about the whole thing initially, and still find it somewhat discomforting emotionally even after understanding it intellectually. In general, a lot of people plain won't notice, they are ready to notice but they don't yet. Some people will, what they perceive will depend strictly on them, something that gives them pause, a strange glint of light, a shudder, a shadow, an odd thought, whatever. Some people will turn right into it and see it, and may engage. They will engage them through me, however they perceive them, they don't engage me, as you say, I'm plain not that karuna, they are. I'm only there because I'm learning flitting, or skillful means.


I have not really experienced the body thing literally in that way. In my transgressions, they have included self-generating as a certain kind of red woman, which I guess seemed more like a total replacement than a mingling.

Yes, that's the usual, even if it's body part by body part, is to be only one thing at a time. The thing I described is a technique, if you will, to become completely clear body, which is, like I say, to "self-generate" and have no body memory of having been anything else.

I
may not have been very good at it, since I had never done anything like it, and they say you are not supposed to embody the deity without the empowerment.

I worried endlessly about that, it's one of the reasons I started the thread. I was alternating between, "I did not have a choice, don't worry about it," and, "oh, no, what do I do about this empowerment thing." I guess I've sort of ended up in the first camp, in no small part because I looked at some stuff for empowerment locally, and got a distinct pull and impression that my shaking might not be understood there, and the thing would be self-defeating.

But as you saw from my question about gurus, it bothers me enough that I want to know what my status is vis-a-vis gurus and so forth. I guess I've cleared it up modulo that now I have to spend some time doing volunteer work as a dakini flitting through people to bring them to the Dharma. Someday I won't mind that, and it will be because I've actually figured out how to be competent at it. (sigh!)


Although in one chapter it does use the term "drop" for the Downward wind having been lifted up, it does distinguish a "stationary drop":
So if I interpret the passage about the stationary drop with vajra meaning lightning, it comes very close to describing what I called the "micro-pair" of "droplet and fire" at my dantian (roughly navel just below it actually). It was the first of such pairs that I "discovered", all of them were exercises in "going within", to the extent that I had to concentrate my listening in the shaking in that place and keep going within what I found, over and over, to try to get to the essence of what was in that place. The essence of a combination of fire and clouds was a single cloud droplet with lightning coming off of it, that droplet's contribution to the big lightning strike of the whole cloud.

Not to ramble too much but these pairs were eventually at my crown, in two places in my head, in my throat, between my throat and heart, at my heart, at my solar plexus, at my dantian, and near my perineum. They ended up being part of, and discovered by, my "external Phowa", (my name) the perception of the Phowa sequence of shakings from the outside (me looking at myself from the outside). All of them had something to do with an instant of creation.


In chapter thirty nine, the Tantra teaches that the abode of the Life-energy energy-wind is, contrary to what may be thought in the world, in the secret anus, the energy center between the perineum and the tip of the penis, or, as Alamka notes, the womb or womb channel. The energy of this center is inherently non-conceptual, and is the original energy in the production of living beings, generating consciousness in process leading to birth, “fainting” in the move from clear light to the other empties, then to the production of the elements, aggregates, sense media, instinctual natures and so forth.

Okay. I guess no matter how anyone describes a generative center like that, it will come out this way. So "fainting" is when moving through states when you get to the empty part, and then all the stuff rebuilds as somebody else on the other side. This does seem like a description of the dissolve, whether or not it is intended to be.


By "death", I am not so much meaning the moment of death, but the state of death or i. e. "wandering the bardo" or Kama Loka, Deathlessness or Vajra Kaya being a completely lucid change from the ordinary deluded experience. I suppose when you append the Bliss aspect properly, you experience Sukhavati in the Akanistha. If you can perfect the Upaya of this, you are a Tulku. The Rosary is perhaps the Book of Mahasukha Vajra Kaya.

I can appreciate the bliss aspect of death, but I recoil from how cold it is. I think you are right, if one can perfect the Upaya one might be a Tulku, or some such. That seems like a huge thing.

[shaberon]

Here are a few of those other selections.


In the Forty Syllables Evam Maya Srutam, etc., towards the end in Vijahara, it says that moods are based around sex:

HA/ Getting turned on
And getting to orgasm,
Being in the nine moods Of the theater, The thought of mantra And consort:
Are the conduct Of Vajrasattva. //40//

The forty syllables in tantra describes the lord dwelling in the vaginas of the vajra women, and when he does so, it is not Karma Mudra, it is the Great Seal, Mahamudra.

Vajradhara can emit his own consort, who does not seem to have a personal name:

Then, the Lord, stirred up by his own consort, and, giving up the Great Seal yoga,
from his own body, speech and mind, stated OM AH HUM, the essence of the family of
the Vajra Queen. //30//

Nothing has said she has a particular family, or that the three syllables are the root mantra of anything. So this is a little unusual. It is a bit like saying her existence derives from Muttering.

The Queen herself is paramount to what was called the Interval. This is more like an instant, and I should not have described it as a "long" interval like an entire period or phase. The Interval ruled by her purifies everything:

It is explained
As supremely purifying
The experiencing
Of Vajradhara’s queen,
The interval [between lives]
Of all living beings
Abandoning Transcendent Ecstasy
And so forth. //4//

The Vajra Rosary is slightly inconsistent. In some of its questions, it seems to drift off-topic. Or, having mentioned Nine Moods (which adds Peace), it reverts to the older format of eight:

Chapter Forty-Seven

The Explanation of the Divisions of the Moods

The yogi who knows
The divisions of the
Characteristics of the moods
Will become a knower
Of the great yogas,
A great wisdom one. //1//
He yawns
From all [these] yogas,
Trembling, dusty,
Hair standing on end, floating,2202
Changing colors, tears melting,
Dissolving, and courageous:
These are the eight moods.2203 //2//
When the channel of
Partial Inflation2204
Is inflated,
It produces trembling.2205
Similarly, when the channel of
Expanding Water2206
Is roused,
It is the producer
Of passion. //3//
Similarly, the channel of
Destruction by Expansion
Causes the standing
Of body hairs
Of the abdomen.2207
Similarly, the hollow
Of the na sa ra
2208 channel
The burning of the abdomen,2209
Produces floating. //4//
If you develop
The Great Tortoise Channel,
It causes the changing of colors.
If you develop
The Great Head Channel,
It causes fainting and pain. //5//

2203 These are put somewhat differently in Alamka’s discussion of the forty-fifth question put by Vajrapani
in the first chapter of the Commentary:
"The division of the tastes and" [means], in the time of engaging in the Great Seal, "the eight
moods" of trembling, passion, hairs standing on end, breaking into song, shaking, changing the
method, breaking down in tears and goodness. It becomes similar to "What are the divisions of
the erotic mood?" The question on the subject of that is the forty-fifth.
Alamka 28A.

2204 The Ascending energy-wind. Alamka 118B.

2205 See also Alamka 28A for variant reading of this chapter to here.

2206 The Equalizing energy-wind. Alamka 118B.

2207 Reading lang or ldang, “rise,” for lngar, “as five” to be consistent with spu langs, two verses above.

2208 Rasana? Skt. nasa, “nose”? Nasara is not in Lokesh Chandra or Monier Williams.

2209 Khong stong: Hollow body? Interior? Internal? Abdominal?


If you open
The Great 'Ur 'Ur Channel,2210
It produces the standing on end
Of the body hairs.
If you develop
The Great Ecstasy Channel,
It causes tears to drip
[In] the cavity. //6//
If you open
The Great Intoxication Channel,
It causes the dissolving
Of the Life Energy energy-wind.
You will experience
Trance, no-mind [and] great bliss.
Then you lose awareness.
Knowing [these]
As the moods
Of erotic and so forth,
Awakens the process
As explained above. //7//
Whoever develops
By invoking the Mantra
JA HUM BAM HOH
[And,] similarly,
A LA LA LA LA HO,
Will know by the division
Of individual moods.
Thus, it is the lineage
Of the division of that. //8//

2210 This channel makes the sound “rrrrrr.” Personal Communication with Prof. Lozang Jamspal.

The Ajna or Wind Chakra is said to cause fainting, burning, and pain.



Chapter Sixty

The Inner Essence Fire Offering

Then moreover listen
And I will explain.
The inner nature is
The supreme fire offering.
The elements moving within
Will be dissolved
In whatever way. //1//
A fire of the seed
Of instinctual consciousness,
The kindling
Of the five aggregates,
And great yogic wisdom
Always will make
A wonderful fire offering. //2//
The mere sound
Abiding in the center
Of the navel,
Is the secret lotus
Of outer mere sound.
For that, by the fire
Fanned by the wind
Of your own continuum, //3//
There is the perfect union
Of the two organs.
When brilliant radiance blazes,
The secret lotus
Fills up with butter,
Therefore this is called
The vessel. //4//
HAM is called the "small ladle;"
The vajra is expressed
As the large ladle;
The vagina is explained
As the hearth;
And the five senses
The substances
To be burnt. //5//
The aggregates become
The sacrificial firewood;
The butter is explained
As enlightenment spirit.
From the new moon
To the full moon,
For as long as you
Are doing [it],
Invite [them] to come.
The stove is spoken of
As the mere drop;
The large ladle moves. //6//
You should always satisfy
Buddha Moharati
And so forth,
Rupavajra and so forth,
The Bodhisattvas
And the ten Wrathful Kings --
With the fire offering. //7//
Whatever is given
To Vajrasattva,
That is also expressed
As the large offering ladle.
With the mantra perfectly endowed
With HUM PHAT,
You should make the offering,
Pouring into the fire
According to ritual. //8//
When the places of the body
Are delighted by that, [that is]
The unexcelled divine commitment.
Having thus bestowed
As attainments
Whatever desires
You have in mind,
This fire sacrifice
Is called supreme. //9//

It does not give an intricate twenty-step Homa, but it does say something about getting "butter" to enter the secret lotus in the center of the navel which has "outer mere sound", which happens in the vessel or perhaps Bharati.


The Three Jewels chapter only has a few verses before the rest of it describes a guru:

Chapter Sixty-Five

Developing the Words of the Buddha, Holy Reality, Sangha and So Forth

Then spoke the Vajra Lord:

Gathering all the characteristics
Of Buddha, the Holy Reality,
And Sangha,
The guru, teacher,
And master,
Vajradhara and the disciple, //1//
You become
The stainless mind: Buddha.
You speak perfectly
As the Dharma.
You make [your] body
"The Sangha,"
The place of the host
Of bodhisattvas. //2//

Buddha is explained
As the syllable HUM,
Speech is expressed
As the syllable AH,
[Having] the nature
Of emanating everywhere. //3//
Buddha becomes
The Avadhut,
Reality is expressed
As the Lalana,
The sangha is expressed
As the Rasana --
The characteristics
Of these three. //4//
The formless realm
Becomes Buddha,
The form realm Reality,
And, similarly,
The desire realm the Sangha.
Thus are the supreme characteristics
Of the three realms. //5//
None other than
Your own life
Becomes the essence
In the three realms.
Illusory are the
Three realms of wind.
You see [them]
Like dreaming a dream. //6//
Alone you will quickly see
That the nature
Of the three realms
Is like that.
Having been blessed
Just like that,
You will quickly
Achieve attainments. //7//
Buddha is the
Complete Enjoyment Body,
The Holy Reality
Is the Truth Body,
The Sangha becomes
As the Emanation Body. //8//
Luminance is the form of Buddha,
The Dharma is imminence,
The Sangha becomes radiance.
Those are the characteristics
Of the three luminances. //9//

So they have gathered the Three Channels, the Three Realms, and Three Voids.

The Instant as related to the Three Jewels is perhaps the ultimate needle-like point of the text, as it is re-iterated in the first section of the final chapter. The Instant pertains to perfecting the stage of Abhisambodhi, and the last stage is called Integration, which we also know as Yughanadda or Pair United.

In its own words, the Epitome of All Attainments may be distilled as:

Entering into non-conceptuality,
By the concentration of integration
In the great accomplishment
Of the Great Seal,
There is no doubt
In this attainment. //18//

It reads a little thin; being difficult to track in Sanskrit at least. What it means by "non-conceptual" can only rely on one certain wind and a purified Klista Manas. You take this and do Integration or a Union beyond Abhisambodhi which is Accomplishment or Amoghasiddhi or Mahamudra in its entirety.

That is also a bit of why the whole book perhaps goes backwards. The large final chapter will list some Pithas and Winds as we have already covered, along with, so to speak, its final notes about how things lace up to its concatenation as described in verse eighteen. And so if you can come halfway close to what this chapter says, most of the rest of the book is like its feet or supports, which are a great deal of standard things, and a few of its own expressions, most saliently Hum Hoh and the congruence of Vajra Kaya to Maha Sukha.

[shaberon]

The Upeksa has done something for my aura, but it has not helped my eyesight much. There was an i in the expression which is flit.


I was alternating between, "I did not have a choice, don't worry about it," and, "oh, no, what do I do about this empowerment thing." I guess I've sort of ended up in the first camp, in no small part because I looked at some stuff for empowerment locally, and got a distinct pull and impression that my shaking might not be understood there, and the thing would be self-defeating.

But as you saw from my question about gurus, it bothers me enough that I want to know what my status is vis-a-vis gurus and so forth. I guess I've cleared it up modulo that now I have to spend some time doing volunteer work as a dakini flitting through people to bring them to the Dharma. Someday I won't mind that, and it will be because I've actually figured out how to be competent at it. (sigh!)


Whatever is self-arisen can only be recognized and harnessed.

But for example, I do not have a self-arisen Vajrasattva. Even taking a whole manual such as Vajra Rosary and the whole philosophy makes sense because I have invoked and applied my faculties to Vajrasattva for a long time. Nevertheless he is an almost entirely mental presence which has never appeared "to" me, let alone "on", "in", or "as" me, in any way. I have never tried to really do anything other than fuzzy ball of light and warmth over the head, compared to the Vajrayogini was probably the first thing that said "you are her" that I had seen.

Remati wears a Net with Nine Gems on her back.

Even if I do not personally know Mandarava, there is nothing that says I cannot tribute her with praise. You can praise anything. I can put remarks about or by her in my sadhana, but, I probably would not casually pick up her personal mantra or presume to stick her in my lineage tree in any way.

Comparatively, for the Sangha in general, it would be Guhyajnana Dakini that would be described as what or whom you might contact or who could arise.




So if I interpret the passage about the stationary drop with vajra meaning lightning, it comes very close to describing what I called the "micro-pair" of "droplet and fire" at my dantian (roughly navel just below it actually). It was the first of such pairs that I "discovered", all of them were exercises in "going within", to the extent that I had to concentrate my listening in the shaking in that place and keep going within what I found, over and over, to try to get to the essence of what was in that place. The essence of a combination of fire and clouds was a single cloud droplet with lightning coming off of it, that droplet's contribution to the big lightning strike of the whole cloud.

Not to ramble too much but these pairs were eventually at my crown, in two places in my head, in my throat, between my throat and heart, at my heart, at my solar plexus, at my dantian, and near my perineum. They ended up being part of, and discovered by, my "external Phowa", (my name) the perception of the Phowa sequence of shakings from the outside (me looking at myself from the outside). All of them had something to do with an instant of creation.

Well, that is interesting that for some reason it has proceeded from the navel like in Buddhism rather than the root as in most other Yoga.

I do not think I have experienced a single thing like it.

Chakras are things I have only felt in my normal body.

I have seen auras which have nothing to do with any system of wheels or eyes of fire.

Lightning Deity was probably the most intense experience I have ever had, but that is not the same thing.

And so this intricate tour of the interior dynamos continues to sound like something that most people are not going to stand a chance to perceive. But when you find yourself finding it, then yes, it still sounds pretty close to what we would do intentionally by Yoga practice.



I can appreciate the bliss aspect of death, but I recoil from how cold it is. I think you are right, if one can perfect the Upaya one might be a Tulku, or some such. That seems like a huge thing.

Then you may understand why some people are utterly terrified of me.

And that is why I think there is huge importance in using Sarvadurgati Parishodana as a "stamp" for practice, because it is also pointing to Vajrapani and the overcoming of Kama Loka, and we are in a situation something like Death versus the Citta Chakra.

By that Purgatory, eventually there is a purified Kama Dhatu Ishvari or the dark Lakshmi--Ekajati also related to Nidra or Sleep Yoga. This is like Varnani or an entire branch nerve.

You could perhaps say if you can dissolve and not pick anything back up from the Kama Loka, you are an Arhat.



Non-conceptuality is Thatness or Suchness and Mahamudra and is the main theme of Vajra Rosary:

The term “non-conceptual” (nirvikalpa, rnam par mi rtog , rnam rtog med pa) is
used thirty-three times in the Vajra Rosary. Non-conceptuality is deployed as a synonym for emptiness and it is used to describe the fourth ecstasy, innate ecstasy occurring when the enlightenment spirit dissolves in the navel chakra and “is born in the Great Bliss Wheel [crown chakra].” When one engages in sexual yogic practices, it is done not in a state of ordinary sexual conceptual fantasy and the like, but in a “non-conceptual state,” the yogi having consumed all of the conceptual energy-winds. Chapter sixty-two, concerning the ganacakra, states that through the sexual ritual of wisdom and method, the guru is teaching through non-conceptuality, leading you to achieve the supreme attainment. The text describes as “true yoga” the part of the practice of vajra repetition where the yogi counts the one hundred eight conceptual energy-winds in the “supreme practice of non-conceptuality.” When the enlightenment spirit overflows from the crown chakra, it goes to the wind chakra between the eyebrows where it is held there by the yogi in a state of “non-conceptuality.” When the “great non-conceptual energy-wind” flows through the central channel, overcoming the conceptual energy-winds: “Non-conceptual bliss/ Will be achieved/ Through the reality/ Of mantra.” The achieving of the state of non-conceptuality is crucial: “Whoever always achieves/ Nonconceptuality/ Effects all actions/ And becomes an expert.”

It means Nirvikalpa, which has been our view so far.

[Old Student]

Similarly, the channel of
Destruction by Expansion
Causes the standing
Of body hairs
Of the abdomen.2207

This seems unusual. Do you know what is meant here? It's either a statement that all hairs on the body stand up, even those on the abdomen, or it's about doing something with the abdomen muscularly?


The formless realm
Becomes Buddha,
The form realm Reality,
And, similarly,
The desire realm the Sangha.
Thus are the supreme characteristics
Of the three realms. //5//
None other than
Your own life
Becomes the essence
In the three realms.
Illusory are the
Three realms of wind.
You see [them]
Like dreaming a dream. //6//
Alone you will quickly see
That the nature
Of the three realms
Is like that.
Having been blessed
Just like that,
You will quickly
Achieve attainments. //7//
Buddha is the
Complete Enjoyment Body,
The Holy Reality
Is the Truth Body,
The Sangha becomes
As the Emanation Body. //8//
Luminance is the form of Buddha,
The Dharma is imminence,
The Sangha becomes radiance.

So there are as you say three realms, three channels, and three voids. Voids, of these three terms would be the best way to describe the three jewels as delineated by the Dakinis -- dissolve, decay, decompose, because they are three ways of ceasing to be self.

[Old Student]

Well, that is interesting that for some reason it has proceeded from the navel like in Buddhism rather than the root as in most other Yoga.

I do not think I have experienced a single thing like it.

I don't think it's the same as something from the root. This (what I had described) was because I had gone within what was there trying to find the place where these things joined. The full size of the droplet were clouds on the side of a mountain, and they among other things became flocks of murmurating birds (all of which were reflected in my breathing patterns). I could not get the fire from below to join with these, in order to get things to connect up and allow bliss to rise through my body. I went inward until I found these pairs.


And so this intricate tour of the interior dynamos continues to sound like something that most people are not going to stand a chance to perceive. But when you find yourself finding it, then yes, it still sounds pretty close to what we would do intentionally by Yoga practice.


It does, which is why it is relatable at all. I am supposed to write these down in notes, which I do. If everything was totally idiosyncratic, I would not be able to look things up, talk to people, and try to understand what was happening.


Then you may understand why some people are utterly terrified of me.

And that is why I think there is huge importance in using Sarvadurgati Parishodana as a "stamp" for practice, because it is also pointing to Vajrapani and the overcoming of Kama Loka, and we are in a situation something like Death versus the Citta Chakra.

By that Purgatory, eventually there is a purified Kama Dhatu Ishvari or the dark Lakshmi--Ekajati also related to Nidra or Sleep Yoga. This is like Varnani or an entire branch nerve.

You could perhaps say if you can dissolve and not pick anything back up from the Kama Loka, you are an Arhat.


I'm not sure I understand. I do not "back out" of a dissolve, coming back is kind of a "relaxing" out.


Non-conceptuality is deployed as a synonym for emptiness and it is used to describe the fourth ecstasy, innate ecstasy occurring when the enlightenment spirit dissolves in the navel chakra and “is born in the Great Bliss Wheel [crown chakra].” When one engages in sexual yogic practices, it is done not in a state of ordinary sexual conceptual fantasy and the like, but in a “non-conceptual state,” the yogi having consumed all of the conceptual energy-winds.

I spent upwards of an hour trying to find other definitions of nirvikalpa to try to understand what is meant by "non-conceptual" here. I assume the translator chose the word carefully, conceptual means having to do with concepts (which are a cognitive phenomenon) but it also has to do with conceiving, which is an ultimate outcome of ordinary sexual acts, and also would mean the blazing of a yab-yum sexual act?

So I am confused as to what this means. Bliss, as I have been using it, is sexual energy, but it transformed and isn't that during shaking, it feels like that but it is those things that you keep saying nobody else would perceive. The whole thing runs on bliss, if bliss isn't there, it's a useless waste of time. But nothing about it is an ordinary sexual act.

[shaberon]

We found a tough nut to crack that in the end, stresses the gears of the Venerable Tson kha pa, and so it is a bit bewildering, but is fundamental.


With some contemplation, it seems to me that Vajra Rosary is simply what I call Guru Yoga.

From doing this format, it is a great deal like what was "me" has been kicked out and replaced by Vajrasattva as described. Even without any special appearances, it is true on a psychological basis. It is more like an inner meaning than some other person taking me over. Or could be called inner state or condition.

For most other purposes, Guru is behind the scenes of what other deities display.


I was impressed to see the meaning of Moods, which readily matches Picuva Marici. There perhaps are not nine if the center or peace is just withdrawn.

Vajra Rosary boils down to Three-natures-or-naturelessnesses, the conundrum of Yogacara, which is like wrapping up the Three Jewels into Three Voids which are also potentially Gnostic Lights.

It was said they are crossed by No Ego, Suchness, and Ultimate Meaning. And so part of the response is that the first is Nairatma. Now we are in a position to say the Second Void is the target of Vajra Rosary by describing Suchness as Nirvikalpa.

In Sadhanamala, Nirvikalpa is mentioned by Halahala and extensively treated by the massive Vajra Tara 110.

With Paramartha, it just is Ultimate Meaning, or actually viewing the Absolute Object or Prabhasvara. Everything else is just to get you focused on it. So there is not another tantra or book or explanation for this.

Vajra Tara is related to Nairatma, and personally has the sadhana which arguably melts through the Second Void.

She does a process related to or having the intent of Paramartha, and then says:

idam ucyate lokottaraṃ śūnyatājñānaṃ niṣprapañcaṃ
nirvikalpam / tatas tanmantreṇādhitiṣṭhet oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako
'ham / saiva bhagavatī prajñāpāramitā
saiva paramā rakṣā /

It is Void Gnosis and Nirvikalpa. And so I am just a disciple trying to see how she works, but in a sadhana I will use the basic White Vajra Tara who does this mantra, which again is the intense process of stamping out the "self" of the skandhas and replacing it with voidness. If I do this now, it remains useful later.

She purifies Laukika Jnana, casts a mandala, and describes how she is going to cast Inverted Stupa:

tanmadhye ākāśamahābhūtasvabhāvaṃ dharmodayākhyaṃ
mahāvajradharasvabhāvaṃ śaracchaśadharadhavalamadhaḥ sūkṣmaṃ
upari viśālaṃ triloṇaṃ antargaganasvarūpaṃ tanmadhye viśvadala-
kamalakarṇikāvasthitavipulaviśvavajraṃ tadvedikāyāṃ catvāri
mahābhūtāni caturmaṇḍalākārāṇi caturdevīsvabhāvāni
uparyupari paśyet /

In the Akasa and Mahabuts she has a Dharmodaya of the nature of Maha Vajradhara, some type of Intermediate Sky or Antargagana, and the body of the Four Vedas are Four Mahabhuts of the nature of Four Devis.

She casts Inverted Stupa, which purifies Lokottara Jnana and emanates something of Vairocana in nature, which endures a few fourfold cycles until:

sūryaṃ dvayor malā mahāsukhaṃ paramānandam /
ādarśajñānavāṃścandraḥ sa tāvān saptasaptikaḥ /


A sun-like rosary of great bliss and Paramananda, having to do with Mirror Wisdom and a Sevenfold division. When he occupies the Earth Element, Vairocana is said to hold Mirror Wisdom.

Which eventually results in the appearance of Vajra Tara's major golden form, in Red Light which is Jnanagni, and is:

caturbuddhamahāmukuṭīṃ vajrasūryābhiṣekajām /
navayauvanalāvaṇyāṃ calatkanakakuṇḍalām //
viśvapadmasamāsīnāṃ raktaprabhāvibhūṣitām /

She populates the mandala and does pages of things with deities and designates them for Heruka.

Vajra Tara has the only Vajra Surya that shows up in Sadhanamala, and apparently the only place where Nirvikalpa is joined to it.

That appears to be another subject of Vajra Rosary, it has specific meanings for Vajra Sun, which if anything must be intensified here, since Vajra Tara is in Ratna or Vajrasurya Family.

It sounds a bit like the meaning of Kaya Vajra or that Jewel Family merges into Tathagata Family. Vairocana has been produced here and faces a devi who is or who gives Abhiseka or Initiation of Vajra Surya.

That is why she comes across as such a dreadnought, probably the most powerful thing it looks like the Sadhanamala Taras are crafting.

[Old Student]

From doing this format, it is a great deal like what was "me" has been kicked out and replaced by Vajrasattva as described. Even without any special appearances, it is true on a psychological basis. It is more like an inner meaning than some other person taking me over. Or could be called inner state or condition.

This sounds amazing.


Vajra Rosary boils down to Three-natures-or-naturelessnesses, the conundrum of Yogacara, which is like wrapping up the Three Jewels into Three Voids which are also potentially Gnostic Lights.

It was said they are crossed by No Ego, Suchness, and Ultimate Meaning. And so part of the response is that the first is Nairatma. Now we are in a position to say the Second Void is the target of Vajra Rosary by describing Suchness as Nirvikalpa.

I did finish checking about Nirvikalpa, vikalpa means "conceptual" as opposed to "actual". Three jewels into three Voids makes sense, Gnostic Lights is something I'm not acquainted with.



śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako

Emptiness knowledge vajra are the innate nature of atma? This seems to be being put in juxtaposition with nirvikalpa?


That appears to be another subject of Vajra Rosary, it has specific meanings for Vajra Sun, which if anything must be intensified here, since Vajra Tara is in Ratna or Vajrasurya Family.

It sounds a bit like the meaning of Kaya Vajra or that Jewel Family merges into Tathagata Family. Vairocana has been produced here and faces a devi who is or who gives Abhiseka or Initiation of Vajra Surya.

This will seem a little off-topic but the sun with moon with nadi-flame, I had found something that looked like it on the faces of statues being prepared for Durgapuja. In those, the correspondence was that the sun was corresponded to the oversized bindi's on some statues, the moon is there clearly, and the nadi-flame is only there with abstraction because most of the time it is an eye. I had this flame coalesce with such an eye last night, and the spitting electric flaming version of it spat out such eyes that landed on me in multiple places. So I have a flame that is sometimes an eye to try to figure out.

[shaberon]

I am not sure about the "abdominal hairs" channel.

I have almost no awareness of anything in the subtle body other than what is described as Suksma Yoga. I learned it mostly instinctively, on a scale of near-approaches and finding a non-duality or transcendence. It started with Bees in the Springtime, and, by around this time of year, it was complete or by then "it" had taught me what would correspond to Eight Joys of Buddhist Candali Yoga. Except this physiological fact is not really the property of Buddhism, it is Nirvikalpa.

Through time and practical experience, this was operable at will in terms of what you might call ascending power levels of bliss.

Eventually I found I could loosen the white seed and hit a Kurukulla-like saturation in the space of one breath.

This can be halted or banished easily. Or, it can go to "the vessel" or Bharati, or back to your first bindu in the lightning-droplet pair example. That change of state is like the subtle of the subtle. And it is the subsequent ascension of this which is capable of entering the Para Sunya, which is like a common name for Shentong Buddhism as well as Shiva tantra for the same thing.

If you do that, you will probably feel a blast of death one way or another, which is what I mean by Kama Loka, and sometimes, other people can sense that you are...incredibly death-like...which can be disturbing.

But through that way is the state being discussed.

And so Nirvikalpa could simply be described as "non-dual", but, since it has a rather esoterified appearance in philosophy, it means the one coming from a state utilizing energy-wind and bliss as described in Vajra Rosary.


Nirvikalpa is viewed as happening fully only in the final three bodhisattva degrees, which perhaps makes it understandable to ignore or deny it in some of the preliminary teachings, but since we are able to assess the whole Path, then yes, it should be distinctly featured. Nirvikalpa or Nirakara seems to be what makes a distinct, obscure Yogacara school that equates to Adwaita. This ego-less, neti neti "nothingness", empty of everything other than itself, is ultimate reality according to these doctrines.

In terms of a ninth dhyana, this is cessation (Nirodha-Samapatti), which may appear unconscious or cataleptic.

NMAA develops the gnoses in an unusual order: Mirror, Equality, Discriminating, Dharmadhatu, Praxis (Amoghasiddhi). This last is different because it emerges from Nirvikalpa Jnana or radiant non-dual, non-discursive state achieved from the previous gnoses. In other words, this is Vilasavajra's commentary on Namasangiti, Nama Mantra Artha Avalokini, which places Amoghasiddhi beyond Dharmadhatu Wisdom. Textually we also equated this Praxis to "Mahamudra Wisdom".


So Nirvikalpa is really a general yoga term:

One well-known Mahatma was Ramalinga, who was so luminous he could not be photographed. HPB believed he was a Mahatma with an accurate prophecy: "His prophecy about the Universal brotherhood in India to be established by the wise from Russia and America and the far North India is quite correct. In 1873, 1 got a command to go from Russia to Paris; in the June of the same year to the United States. I went to New York. It was during this time that the Mahatma was telling what would happen in the future."

She spoke with someone who witnessed his last day: "This body
will not be available for burial or for burning. I am in Stiddka Nirvikalpa
Samadhi (Supreme state of Bliss-Consciousness). For a while I will wander
as a Siddha. I will work not only in India, but in the western countries too.
I will return at last with a divine body! Now close and lock all the doors and
windows; completely close and seal them. But if the curious open this,
there shall be only emptiness!”

In any case, it is well-known that such yogis may vacate their bodies indefinitely. In Yoga, Nirvikalpa can last twenty-one days, and if so, then it could go on for months or indefinitely.

Buddha trained in the Dhyanas, and Nirvikalpa is Dhyanas five to eight. Even in a Hindu description, we find:

"Holding on to the supreme state is Samadhi. When it is with effort due to mental disturbances, it is Samprajnata [or Savikalpa]. When these disturbances are absent, it is Nirvikalpa. Remaining permanently in the primal state without effort is Sahaja.

It [Nirvikalpa] is a state where you are no longer the mind or the identity. You are no longer what you have been perceiving your whole life. That is why it can be shocking to some individuals. For how long can this state lasts depends on the experience of the individual. As each individual is an expression of the whole and the whole is expressing itself through him or her or it. It can last for minutes or hours or days or months where the individual lose consciousness as he knows it and remains subtly in the subconscious or the unconscious state. The desire to come back or not from that state is linked to the life experience of that individual. If he is here to maybe manifest something into the world. Or if he just wanted to reach that state and leave the conscious world.

However it is not the ultimate state of realization and it is not how it appears to be ‘of great significance’. It is like any other spiritual experience. It can be an awakening experience to some individuals who weren’t aware of that state.

While losing contact of the world in this dreamlike state of benediction and bliss. When coming back from this state the world seems differently. But as you come to meditate more in this world. Your life is no longer yours. You are now just an expression of divine...The state of self love, realization, enlightenment, oneness, divinity, whichever you call it it doesn’t matter. What matters is that you are in such a state there is no tomorrow nor yesterday nor today. There is only infinity within you. No fear no doubt no hesitation. Your whole expression as a creation is a spontaneous manifestation.

This [Sahaja] Samadhi could probably be placed between Nirvikalpa and Dharmamegha Samadhis. It is where the inner silence is maintained along with normal daily activities. It is being able to maintain the experience of Nirvakalpa Samadhi at all times. Here you radiate Divine Illumination, the Divine is perfectly manifesting through you at every second. You are filled with Divine Grace. It can, perhaps, be likened to the Unity Consciousness of the Shankara Tradition."


Dharmamegha is Jivanmukta.


In Shiva tantra, the first two Bhairavas given are relevant to the emergence of Parvati as Kurukulla. If Prajna could be loosely described as the most refined wisdom and intelligence, it is not too far off from Bhairava as the Knower of it. Vijnanabhairava or philosophy of Abhinavagupta says that worship is not the offering of gross items, flowers, incense, etc., but that it is Nirvikalpa Mahavyomni, interpreted as:

setting one's heart on Vijnana, the highest ether of consciousness above thought constructs; dissolution of self into the supreme consciousness known as Bhairava.

Those are just a few notes I had about it, but, more precisely, we find Nirvikalpa (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/a-history-of-indian-philosophy-volume-2/d/doc209863.html) discussed with the Three Natures as explained by Vasubandhu and Sthiramati. And so it has no duality, there is no subject-object, which is expressed in "Graha" terms, similar to Planet or "Seizer" except in this case, the terminology means Grasper and Grasped. It is this exact phrase which is in the Vajra Tara sadhana describing the same thing. So that sadhana attaches the complete Yogacara philosophy to practice matching the tantric definition.

It would be called Suspended Animation if done for any noticeable length of time.

If you do a sadhana normally, you would come back out of it in a while.

[shaberon]

Emptiness knowledge vajra are the innate nature of atma? This seems to be being put in juxtaposition with nirvikalpa?



It is sticky since Buddhists are trained to vehemently deny "atma"--except it appears in the majority of sadhanas.

It is usually something like "I/myself", so "my" real nature is emptiness knowledge, not a predictable human ego.

That is like a "level two" mantra, after the Purity mantra which is like an "eraser" to perceive voidness, this one is more like identity with voidness. So I think it is like a "training prelude" to Nirvikalpa, and continues to be used as the meaning hits home. In the Vajra Tara sadhana, the mantra is related to "adhistithe" which is a consecration for/of/about Nirvikalpa.

By "Gnostic Lights", I just mean the Three Luminances, meaning they are not just colors, but gnostic perception of reality. More commonly, they are called Light, Spread of Light, and Culmination of Light. The Vasubandhu--Sthiramati texts say this is real and we use it, compared to "vikalpa" with respect to Samvritti or mundane consciousness is a mental construct which is not "actual", not based in void gnosis and use of the winds. And so a great deal of the Path is killing Imaginary mentation that the human uses all the time, since theirs is based in Ego. The three luminances are like snuffing Imagination and breaking Dependent Arising to simply reveal/perceive/know the third or Paramartha.

That is why Vajrasattva's consort is Vajra Gharvi (Divine Ego) or Vajrasattvatmika (herself composed of Vajrasattva).

Vajrasattva's first tantric degree is as non-dual Prajna--Upaya in conjunction with Four Activities. If you are learning some Upaya based as close as you can in Prajna, it is this. That is like adjoining two of the Paramitas, which are defined as built of the previous. Again the intent here may be called Svabhavika Kaya, considered a merging of the Tri-kaya into a single unit. Either way, you get a small taste of something, which expands to "everything", and returns back to a point-like thread of the Central Channel.

The Eye should mean "this is open, working", and then becomes a suitable symbol for a chakra. Buddhism insists it is governed by the Heart.

Used appropriately, Vajrasattva and Vajra Tara definitely remove human ego and install Void Gnosis just as the mantras indicate. I had used Green Tara and didn't quite get White Tara, so, when I researched her and determined the simplest, oldest kinds were Mrtyuvacana and Vajra Tara, I asked her if this was the right meaning and if it was ok to do it this way, and, so far, the sense is she is flattered that someone would open a "time capsule" like this. I have not thought of it as whether she is in Buddha Family in a Quintessence, because these are about Sunyata Jnana and Explaining Death. That is why Vajra Tara is very pivotal, is like an occult pedestal, a transformative region which grows and always remains to unfold the rest, and shows most of it herself in her personal name in Gold Vajra Tara 110. When we see it includes a near-copy of Sthiramati's Yogacara, and also take him as a main transmission of Ratna Gotra Vibhaga or Seven Vajra Mysteries, the full intricacy of the teachings are here, and still based in Refuge of One, so she is completely compatible. Offhandedly, I have not seen another single source that has this degree of fusion.

[Old Student]

Some of this posting is difficult, in that it seems in conflict with itself. Loss of self does not necessarily mean suspension of life maintaining functions, but it does somehow mean loss of this world view.


I have almost no awareness of anything in the subtle body other than what is described as Suksma Yoga. I learned it mostly instinctively, on a scale of near-approaches and finding a non-duality or transcendence. It started with Bees in the Springtime, and, by around this time of year, it was complete or by then "it" had taught me what would correspond to Eight Joys of Buddhist Candali Yoga. Except this physiological fact is not really the property of Buddhism, it is Nirvikalpa.

Through time and practical experience, this was operable at will in terms of what you might call ascending power levels of bliss.

Eventually I found I could loosen the white seed and hit a Kurukulla-like saturation in the space of one breath.

To me, being able to end the self but not being able to end being in this body is why this is so wrapped up in death and death-like states. The body can continue to function easily without self if self is not essential to the body when it does.



Nirvikalpa is viewed as happening fully only in the final three bodhisattva degrees, which perhaps makes it understandable to ignore or deny it in some of the preliminary teachings, but since we are able to assess the whole Path, then yes, it should be distinctly featured. Nirvikalpa or Nirakara seems to be what makes a distinct, obscure Yogacara school that equates to Adwaita. This ego-less, neti neti "nothingness", empty of everything other than itself, is ultimate reality according to these doctrines.

In terms of a ninth dhyana, this is cessation (Nirodha-Samapatti), which may appear unconscious or cataleptic.

Which explains why when I do the wrong thing, my breath dies away. Or when I do the right thing, but not necessarily that I am doing it the right way. I read through both the pancajnana entries in several -pedias and through your link to the Wisdom Library that down the page discussed Nirvikalpa.

I have told you before that I have some vocational and some avocational study in my background of neural processes. Much which happens between perception and cognition is due to development, or inheritance, of pre-conceived things. If one begins eliminating these links, in the very same way I had told you about changing the patterns of muscular activation in large numbers of small muscles during shaking, then the reality that is perceived, or that is possible, changes. If one completely reduces to nothing those preconceptions, and holds there, then reality is capable of infinite possibilities and also of the perception of the infiniteness of those possibilities. That much can be read out of the cellular tissues themselves and how they work. And delving below those, as well as delving into the infinite number of possibilities for those, easily produces all of this philosophy about the non-reality of a dual world view and much of the rest, in addition to producing we don't know what else.

One way to do that would be to shut everything off and then return it to what would be a new stasis. But that would certainly not be the only way.


It would be called Suspended Animation if done for any noticeable length of time.

I am familiar with this state (not for weeks long periods or anything). It does not seem like the only way to do these five Gnoses, and it is something that can cause great difficulties for something that can be done elsewise.

[Old Student]

By "Gnostic Lights", I just mean the Three Luminances, meaning they are not just colors, but gnostic perception of reality. More commonly, they are called Light, Spread of Light, and Culmination of Light. The Vasubandhu--Sthiramati texts say this is real and we use it, compared to "vikalpa" with respect to Samvritti or mundane consciousness is a mental construct which is not "actual", not based in void gnosis and use of the winds. And so a great deal of the Path is killing Imaginary mentation that the human uses all the time, since theirs is based in Ego. The three luminances are like snuffing Imagination and breaking Dependent Arising to simply reveal/perceive/know the third or Paramartha.

In the neural theory of vision, there is a tendency by some (usually computational) neuroscientists to model things as a feed forward network going from the eyes into and through the visual cortex then on to higher brain function. This is actually incorrect, and when you tell them that, they say it is a simplifying assumption, and usually say it doesn't matter.

But it does. The feedback circuit does stuff up to and including that it paints your visual imagined things on your visual cortex in the same places they would be if you saw them with your eyeballs, and you re-perceive them from there. In addition, vision at various stages is sent out to multiple places, and can directly communicate with your motor system without getting to your higher cortices, a phenomenon known as "blindsight". Someone with such a situation can, for instance, not be able to see anything but tell the doctor that, "Oh, you got a haircut." The other part can be trained such that blind people can learn to draw from their imaginations.

The purpose of it is to make sense of -- read interpret and create a world view of -- the surrounding reality. But it also limits what can be seen, and limits what can be imagined.

Shutting off those links would make you perceive unfiltered - but also unrecognized - the world around you. Rewiring those links would allow you to organize the world in another reality.

If you know this kind of science, and you read what Vasubandhu and Sthiramati say -- albeit in the interpretation in the link you gave -- then it is not difficult to see that the goals of these practices are similar to the goals of the rest of Yoga -- to expand control over the automatic within oneself and to bend the results to appreciate (I won't use perceive) reality.

When I do my shaking, I change those controls, just like others may do using Yoga or using other practices like Neidan (which after all, given the definition of Yoga I just used, would just be Yoga by a different name). But it's more like wrenching the piano away from Mozart and convincing oneself that it can be used to play Jazz. In the end, this also proves that the piano is not a Mozart reality device.


The Eye should mean "this is open, working", and then becomes a suitable symbol for a chakra. Buddhism insists it is governed by the Heart.

This is good. The symbol has not recurred (but it's only been one day). Before it opens or becomes a flame, it is a flower and a vulva, and the eye at the end retains the characteristics of all of the precursors. It is a rich symbol, I am glad it means something is coming to life and opening.

[shaberon]

Some of this posting is difficult, in that it seems in conflict with itself. Loss of self does not necessarily mean suspension of life maintaining functions, but it does somehow mean loss of this world view.



This probably is correct on both counts, we are dealing with a body-less Nirvana which one does not want to leave, and a command that we release this state and move out to help others. And so it is out-of-body but it is also in-body to the extent that it can be. Most of us cannot stay in Nirvikalpa if a leaf blows in the wind.

It could perhaps be said that the more the Transcendent State is trained, the more the body can be operated without selfhood of it.

Nirvikalpa refers to the Absolute:


nirvikalpa (निर्विकल्प).—a (S) Of unchanging purpose; being "without variableness or shadow of turning"--the Deity. 2 Not admitting of difference or otherness (betwixt one's own spirit and the divine essence).

Knowledge, not depending upon or derived from the senses.

And when Absolute in the sense of Nirguna Brahman is ported into Buddhism, it is adorned with the marks of Manifest Complete Buddha, which exists in an ordinary body.

But there is also a sense we are getting at the state equal to Deep Sleep.

Between ordinary consciousness, and the non-ness of Deep Sleep, it is possible to function fully consciously, in a non-physical body. This is possible to the extent that Buddha reached Enlightenment exactly this way, non-physically, in a Manomaya Kaya or Mayavi Rupa or Illusory Body in the Akanistha or Pure Lands.

Relative to the normal person, Akanistha is beyond their own thoughtforms or kamarupas, clouds of obscurity.

While he was in the Akanistha, he still, mentally, dissolved the voids.

If I am not Buddha, then I helplessly revolve on a chain of death and reincarnation, and so part of what we are doing here is Explaining Death which, so to speak, builds a type of mental body that is not subject to the ordinary affairs of death, Vajra Kaya.

The body is not what will be challenged after death by Kama Loka with the potential to enter the Pure Lands.

The body is just a temporary dwelling for something that did not come from this world.

That which is not of this world is definitely trying to "take" it, but, the shocks of birth and death seal it behind a powerful Maya.

And so if I say Citta Chakra then I am speaking to something which witnesses all these births and deaths and retains their awareness and that of all the bardo and possible ghost-hood and so forth.

The Vasubandhu article is from Trimsika or Thirty Verses which I think we already posted. This is the Yogacara pertinent to Avatamsaka and Lankavatara Sutras.

Nirodha Samapatti (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/nirodha-samapatti) is perhaps the most technically correct term for the suspended state.

There is a Samjna (https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/25917/what-is-sanna-samapatti-and-nirodha-samapatti) or Phala (https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/3184/what-is-the-different-between-nirodha-samapatti-and-phala-samapatti) Samapatti where a person retains a special awareness called Lokottara Citta. The Dhyanas are Pali, it does not originate in Vajrayana. And so the sadhanas accelerate our way into it.

Here is an esoteric view of Nirodha (http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Nirodha-Samapatti) explaining it from the inside and as to the longer the attainment, the longer the effect. Nowadays it is mostly relegated as a myth.

Nirvikalpa could mean an utterly non-dual mind in an ordinarily-awake physical body, if one was Buddha. Otherwise, it is the higher Dhyanas, which include suspended states, one with awareness which would be like crossing the realms of death, and another without, which is closer to Deep Sleep.

I am not personally able to say much about taking initiations on another plane, but I can say there is such a thing as Nirodha Samapatti, and this just means I am aware of it in a non-Buddhist manner. Maybe it is like having been taught by the Vairajas. I am not sure. I have experienced it from a few minutes up to about an hour up to probably not more than three hours.

Vajra Tara on her first line is:

sarvasampattivardhanīm

Just as there is a Prajna Vardhani and a Sukha Vardhani, she is a Sampatti Vardhani. Sampatti categorically begins as the tantric Gauris and migrates to the kind being discussed.

[shaberon]

The Formless realm is a weird subject.

The body-less lattice of everything connected to everything has no separate spaces, it has one unlimited space.

The highest plane is more of a zero-dimensional Point, "perceived everywhere, found nowhere".

It is the "unobserved" central point of the mandala, with the bounding circle as the spiritual reflection back to it.

There is a Sanskrit word for "Point of Origin and Return" which perhaps makes a lot of sense interpreted into Buddhism. The Point is called Prabhavapayaya.

It is an archaic term from a Purana Samhita or multi-puranic explanation.

Prabhavapyaya (https://prajnaquest.fr/blog/the-one-form-of-existence-prabhavapyaya-in-the-original-pura%E1%B9%87a-sa%E1%B9%83hita/) is called in The Secret Doctrine the "One Form of Existence", and questions the translation "Form", leaning towards plane or place.

Prabhava (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/prabhava) has many similarities to Prabha, "Royal Light" and so forth, but also, is the first year in a sixty-year Samvatsara cycle, and also "generative cause".

Apyaya (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/apyaya) is absorption, dissolution into oneself.


HPB says Svabhavat is the secondary stage of Prabhavapyaya (https://theosophy.wiki/en/Prabhavapyaya). As a substance, Svabhavat is like a mental prakriti, and as a practice, it is Svabhavikakaya or tantric or gnostic Vajrasattva.

It seems likely that in Buddhism it is the same tattvas or planes or worlds or realities as in some other Yogas, with a certain Noumenal application. Vajrasattva is the "next thing to" the Point, not in the sense of how subtle matter was differentiated at the dawn of time, but as collated in one's mindstream.


Death is probably a heavy and disturbing presence until the conquering of Kama Loka, which, I am pretty sure, is portrayed by Vajrapani in Sarvadurgati Parishodana, but is more like a "state" of Trailokya Vijaya, which could be attained via Acala, Vajrabhairava, or certain other deities.

The fourth chapter in Varamrita Tantra is Homa Vidhi which says, for Santika, Paustika (Nourishing) rites and so on:

The maṇḍalācārya (i.e. the homācārya, the master who celebrates the homa liturgy) should first identify himself with Vajrasattva; adorned with all embellishments and in the ālīḍha posture, he should then perform the Victory of the Three Worlds (trailokyavijaya) (i.e. he should identify himself with the Krodharāja deity) and eventually cleanse the ground (bhūmisaṃśodhana): the practitioner should drive away the obstacles (vighnotsāraṇa), pay homage to the Guru, and attract the Deity of the Earth (pṛthivīdevatā).

So for example, it is saying Wrathful King accomplishes Trailokyavijaya. That is why the wrathfuls inhere to any powerful mandala. It is defeating those powers, transcending those planes and/or their limitations.

[Old Student]

Nirvikalpa refers to the Absolute:


nirvikalpa (निर्विकल्प).—a (S) Of unchanging purpose; being "without variableness or shadow of turning"--the Deity. 2 Not admitting of difference or otherness (betwixt one's own spirit and the divine essence).

Knowledge, not depending upon or derived from the senses.

Or perhaps, to combine these two,
knowledge unchanged by the senses.


But there is also a sense we are getting at the state equal to Deep Sleep.

Between ordinary consciousness, and the non-ness of Deep Sleep, it is possible to function fully consciously, in a non-physical body. This is possible to the extent that Buddha reached Enlightenment exactly this way, non-physically, in a Manomaya Kaya or Mayavi Rupa or Illusory Body in the Akanistha or Pure Lands.

I spent upwards of an hour last night in what I have begun referring to as humming shaking: My whole body hums at just below hearing range (probably about 7-10Hz), it is the state that comes from the "decompose" part of the three jewels. My breathing drops off repeatedly in this state, and it does not feel like a problem like when I get meditation sickness.

But it's also a state of waiting, if there is a conjoining of states, dissolve, decay coming in, and I am waiting at the fulcrum in this humming shaking state, then sometimes things happen. Last night, there was a grey cloud or curtain down over this so it was just a state of waiting, and there was a flitting. That was during one of the periods of great movement that happened during this waiting state. The movement within the state of waiting moving stillness happened with a great clarity -- as if everything was bathed in moonlight, is the way it ended up in my notes.


If I am not Buddha, then I helplessly revolve on a chain of death and reincarnation, and so part of what we are doing here is Explaining Death which, so to speak, builds a type of mental body that is not subject to the ordinary affairs of death, Vajra Kaya.


If I am not Buddha, then there is not nirvikalpa, because there is a boundary between what you are and what you are not.


Nirvikalpa could mean an utterly non-dual mind in an ordinarily-awake physical body, if one was Buddha. Otherwise, it is the higher Dhyanas, which include suspended states, one with awareness which would be like crossing the realms of death, and another without, which is closer to Deep Sleep.

Nothing in shaking is completely still. The humming shaking is humming, but I'm sure it looks still. The shakings where I am put to sleep to practice and then woken up again look still but they are not still. The drop to nothing of my breathing looks still but it is not still. So I would guess I don't have this suspended state, because since I have been shaking, my deep sleep may or may not be still.

I am still awed by the spitting of all the eyes from my tongue the other night. This is not a response to finding the fulcrum and moving through the jewels that could have happened earlier, I would not have had the deepening separation between sense information and what I could see. I guess this is what I also see as a suspension of the senses, even though it is visually, and other experientially quite rich to the breaking point.

[Ernie Nemeth]

No idea if this fits, and is no doubt quite naive, but it is hard to find an avenue of response on this thread, although it is at times very interesting.

At moments of greatest profundity I have found that I begin shaking, trembling. It is as though my body resonates with the sentiment. Yet if it is left unchecked, the quaking often becomes almost violent. The immediate inclination is to desecrate or denigrate the experience a smidgen in order to regain control.

Yet it is this very control mechanism that has been lifted momentarily for the profound to have occurred in the first place.

It is a conundrum.

[Old Student]

At moments of greatest profundity I have found that I begin shaking, trembling. It is as though my body resonates with the sentiment. Yet if it is left unchecked, the quaking often becomes almost violent. The immediate inclination is to desecrate or denigrate the experience a smidgen in order to regain control.

I can only speak from my own experience. When I first started shaking regularly, I had this same sentiment, that if it got too violent, I would injure myself. In my experience, there is only one injury I had in a year and seven months of shaking for sometimes hours a day. That was that I stared so hard at something I strained the inside of my eye. I never had any injuries to muscles or bones or ligaments or tendons, though. I do take the precaution of doing my shaking on a bed (I have started shaking in the shower or standing otherwise, but I don't let that go unrestrained because of balance).

[shaberon]

The verbal conundrum about voidness, or the subtlety of nirvikalpa or whether one is or isn't Buddha since there is a Buddha Garbha in all beings, is another instance to be placed in the center of Catuskoti.

If I had been asked about it in the condition I was in, there would have been no one to comprehend the question. Or if there was someone, there was no such thing as words to them.

The following paragraph is where Vajra Tara appears to merge Grasper and Grasped into voidness and Paramartha, and what is a little stranger is that this is taking place in a Citta Sarira which would have the literal meaning of Mental Body:

tasmāc cittaśarīrāḥ sarvadharmāḥ teṣāṃ
grāhyagrāhakaśūnyatā paramārtha ity evam ekāntena niścitya
bhrāntisamāropitaṃ bhrānticihnaṃ sarvadharmāṇām ākāram apahāya
teṣāṃ prakṛtim eva kevalām advayavijñaptilakṣaṇām
śuddhasphaṭikasaṅkāśāṃ śaradamalamadhyāhnagaganopamāmanantāṃ
paśyet / idam ucyate lokottaraṃ śūnyatājñānaṃ niṣprapañcaṃ
nirvikalpam

The words from the stem "bhrant-" would have a common meaning of wanderings as doubts and errors. Secondly, though, it could mean the rolling of a wheel, or revolutions. It is placed with Cihna, which is the usual term for "Family or Personal Symbol". It would appear to make sense if Ignorance Family has the Wheel as their symbol, but I cannot see how that fits here.


The second sentence says "nisprapanca", which would generally mean "not subject to division", however it is also the negation of Prapanca (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/prapanca).

Mandukya Upanishad:

Prapañca (प्रपञ्च, “phenomenal world”).—From the standpoint of Truth, prapañca or the phenomenal world or even the idea of perceiving them does not exist as separate from Brahman. Therefore no birth or death can be predicated of what exists ultimately.

Also, recalling that Raca is what Guhyajnana appears to do to Dakinis, and Racana is perhaps a nickname or play on Vairocani:

Prapañca (प्रपञ्च) refers to the “universe”, according to the Śivapurāṇa 2.2.26. Accordingly as Śiva said to Nanda, after the latter cursed Dakṣa (and others):—“[...] Who is this? Who are you? Who are these? In reality I am all. Consider everything in this light. In vain did you curse the Brahmins. Extracting the fundamental basis of the construction of the universe (prapañca-racana) through the knowledge of reality, be enlightened and self-assured, O intelligent one. Be free from anger and other emotions”.


The Greek root words for Ecstasy mean out of body. It does not necessarily mean a projection, because withdrawal also takes one out of body.

Laya as in Laya Yoga is also Zero or Dissolution.

No, it cannot possibly be the same thing as shaking. That is...I don't know, a very personal instruction I guess. If anything, my body is trained the opposite way, for example to fight multiple people and walk away calm and supple as a rag. Or music with exact timing. However, it is inspirational in the sense that...I may have done a lot of Laya Yoga into a non-Buddhist Nirodha...it is helpful about adding the missing Buddhist parts, something like bliss in various families, which I think will help me do it again with better preparation.

Compared to standard Adwaita terminology, the teaching does Nirguna and Sadguna meditations, and Sadguna is mainly vested in the Heart. On that, I don't have the same expertise, I don't have the Six Dharmas or anything like that, and so for instance hearing of Mandarava is an indication of Nirmanakaya, testimony of Indra's Net is almost revelation of Sambhogakaya, and so on.

[Agape]

No idea if this fits, and is no doubt quite naive, but it is hard to find an avenue of response on this thread, although it is at times very interesting.

At moments of greatest profundity I have found that I begin shaking, trembling. It is as though my body resonates with the sentiment. Yet if it is left unchecked, the quaking often becomes almost violent. The immediate inclination is to desecrate or denigrate the experience a smidgen in order to regain control.

Yet it is this very control mechanism that has been lifted momentarily for the profound to have occurred in the first place.

It is a conundrum.


It happens with me as well as you suggested “in profound moments” I seem to get a “vibration”. It can be all kinds of things I suppose -from palpitations to tachycardia- but it’s not uncontrollable.
For the better part it may be transformative process but I could do it better when I was young kid - the conflicting “vibe” from the environment would go through me and get reprocessed while I could not utter a word in those moments.

Later I found out I can either stop it on button or induce it at will but it does not last too long.

Even though, after those more recent events in Uruguay I caught serious vibration (like palpitation) all the time, the ways they used against me produced good lasting shock. And since I had to fly almost 24 hours from there to Finland to another “cool shock” and got out 3 months later to hands of another unknown friend in the UK,
I figured out how to lock it and hold it within me until I’ve got personal freedom ..

Thinking I’ll be able to “let go” , I’m not. I proved to be holding this down, for all the last year and this year. That said, I think I’m getting better at it now :)

[Old Student]

The body-less lattice of everything connected to everything has no separate spaces, it has one unlimited space.

The highest plane is more of a zero-dimensional Point, "perceived everywhere, found nowhere".

It is the "unobserved" central point of the mandala, with the bounding circle as the spiritual reflection back to it.

I did not know that about the unobserved central point in a mandala, but I did know about the interconnectedness, this is the experience when I can see into the jewel at my throat.


It seems likely that in Buddhism it is the same tattvas or planes or worlds or realities as in some other Yogas, with a certain Noumenal application. Vajrasattva is the "next thing to" the Point, not in the sense of how subtle matter was differentiated at the dawn of time, but as collated in one's mindstream.

Except for the blowing out. Buddhism was (and is regarded in India, largely) an anti-Brahminical movement in some respects, but there was also in Siddhartha's experience a rejection of some yogic methods, principally asceticism and strong denial of the body, and there was a path then, and later a path again in Vajrayana, for accomplishing the blowing out in this lifetime, not far far into the future.


Death is probably a heavy and disturbing presence until the conquering of Kama Loka, which, I am pretty sure, is portrayed by Vajrapani in Sarvadurgati Parishodana, but is more like a "state" of Trailokya Vijaya, which could be attained via Acala, Vajrabhairava, or certain other deities.

The way you have described of conquering Kama Loka does not seem to be the way outlined by the Dakinis as they have instructed me, which doesn't validate either over the other, but they are distinctly different. They have outlined something more like an exit along the path of death after consolidating my "self" in a completely rainbow body -- again, not to say this is the same rainbow body as Tibetan siddhis like, for instance, Mandarava, but one nevertheless.

That said, I do not really know what happens to me when I am in the completely "three jewels" state, but I do record, and that shows that even though the perception is of not breathing at all at points, the actual is a kind of bated breath that is below perception but nevertheless measurable, with long pauses. But sometimes it doesn't happen that way at all. I was in said state for quite a while last night, and was fully embodying my own disintegration for something like an hour and a half, without any active thought.

[Old Student]

The Greek root words for Ecstasy mean out of body. It does not necessarily mean a projection, because withdrawal also takes one out of body.

Laya as in Laya Yoga is also Zero or Dissolution.

No, it cannot possibly be the same thing as shaking. That is...I don't know, a very personal instruction I guess. If anything, my body is trained the opposite way, for example to fight multiple people and walk away calm and supple as a rag. Or music with exact timing. However, it is inspirational in the sense that...I may have done a lot of Laya Yoga into a non-Buddhist Nirodha...it is helpful about adding the missing Buddhist parts, something like bliss in various families, which I think will help me do it again with better preparation.

It's actually closer to "out of standing" meaning out of equilibrium.

So two things on this. Buddhist Nirodha is the cessation of suffering. I'm not understanding the idea that Buddhism is just prior Yoga with a Buddhist overlay. Both for the historical reason that a lot of Yoga actually came from Buddhism and had its Buddhist parts altered more than they were removed, and for the reason that there are fundamental differences, even acknowledging the very large overlap between Vajrayana and Shakti.

I'm not denying that such states of suspension exist, I'm questioning whether they are a necessity on the path.


I don't have the Six Dharmas or anything like that, and so for instance hearing of Mandarava is an indication of Nirmanakaya, testimony of Indra's Net is almost revelation of Sambhogakaya, and so on.

It actually seems to be somewhat of a path by way of vast visions that require and complete a destruction of self in order to embody/apprehend them.[COLOR="red"][COLOR="red"]

[shaberon]

Buddhist Nirodha is the cessation of suffering. I'm not understanding the idea that Buddhism is just prior Yoga with a Buddhist overlay.


I looked at this again recently in terms of an Orthodox Priest who was distinguishing Christianity from Buddhism.

In his view, the goal of Buddhism is cessation of suffering, in kind of a feed-the-world mentality.

He said his goal was a State of Grace and a type of Everlasting Life without Sorrow.

I find that Cessation of Suffering is the goal in the same way as it being Refuge of One. This must then be the same as Buddhahood, which was originally translated as Enlightenment, but even in the Sutras it is called Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi.

That could be described as including grace and life without sorrow. Once we start to define "suffering", we quickly get to 84,000 dharma teachings. It is like the One Law that includes whatever it needs. Following it as explained makes a Complete Manifest Buddha.

The principal historical rivalry between Brahmanism and Buddhism is there largely because Adi Shankara did not hear of the Nirakara or Para Sunya philosophy in Buddhism. And then on the other hand, Buddhist commentors did not obtain Adi Shankara's personal system, either. But they are about the same. For example there is Byoma Kusuma who is from the Rana dynastic family in Nepal, born and raised in the Hindu Yoga as done there, and, became a Buddhist convert since he saw it denied Atma. And then on further pursuit, when he found Para Sunya or now mostly called Shentong, he was shocked that he found the same thing he thought he converted out of. I tried to ask him about it personally but never got an answer.

It is probably true that Buddhism is disinterested in Brahmanism as a type of caste which buries the Yoga system deep within, and is more Puranical or like a tradition that is open to anyone who is interested and wants to try.

Tibetans quickly point out that the main difference in their practice is Bliss, but, I can find Ananda Bhairava or Lalita or Kamakhya Devi and cannot deny they are blissful. So the difference is probably less in the "fact" of bliss, than the "how", and the what are you doing with it.

There was the full system of Sita and King Janaka in Buddha's time, and so Gautama, personally, would not have had anything else as a comparison basis. Because he validates the Vedic Sages and recommends doing an Inner Homa, he is saying something about placing oneself in the state or condition of a Sage, like we say state of Vajradhara. Exactly how close or not the two systems are, could be seen in comparing Brihadaranyaka Upanishad to Vajra Rosary. We have already found a virtual plagiarism of Bhagavad Gita tucked into Ratna Gotra Vibhaga.

The main difference to me is the refusal to remain in quiescent Nirvana and to manifest successful compassionate action.

I could try to take the Nepalese view that there was Dipamkara Buddha and the Historical Buddhas, and that Manjushri is like a lord of civilization who perhaps was behind Hindu Yoga anyway. What is easier for me as a Tara devotee is that, oh, she comes with an unbroken continuity of consciousness from another universe. That is the point of Paramartha. The meditation may resemble destruction because it penetrates that part of the Dharma Realm which withstands the destruction of a world-system. We could say at that time, there are those beings who are in a Deathless condition and have the Paramartha, and those who do not who will simply be eliminated.

On a realistic time frame, we have hundreds of thousands, millions of years, something like that.

And so we are in the territory that is the difference in Buddhist schools, mostly about the Alaya and/or the Three Natures, and the very highest Dhyanas and final stages of the Bodhisattva Path. There are minor differences in philosophy and what is trained.

That is why I think it behooves us to stick around Prajna Paramita or perhaps Upaya Paramita, which is like a working bundle of the vast majority of the teachings. Also that the only real technique suggested for outer Yoga practice is Soft Vase breathing. When we get into more advanced, specialized things, certain techniques may benefit some and not others. Traditionally, this is where the guru's personal instruction is desired.


However, it remains the case if someone is able to peer into the Mirror Wisdom, you can get to the Dharmadhatu, the source of all phenomena, Nirvana or Samsara. Once you sort of break loose from the earthly bonds, it is possible to go a little deeper than expected.

In Tibet the returner from a suspended state is called a Delog, usually only one or two of which is recorded per century. In the 1930s a sixteen year old girl did this against the wishes of her authorities. She went to Forest of Turquoise Leaves where Twenty-one Praises of Tara is sung in Sanskrit and it lasted about five days.

A lot of what I have experienced is really not for the faint of heart. Dangerous in many ways. Karmicly I may be a little more tied to ghost or demon hunting than the average person is comfortable with. Currently a lot of things have been detrimental to me and I am lucky to feel good at all. So Obstacle Clearing is very meaningful to me.

I am fortunate to be able to testify that there is Bliss of any kind, and I could easily regenerate it, but even so, I would be pretty far from rainbow liquid and so forth. And it looks like a main part of the Vajra Tara sadhana eventuates in transmuting the Dhyani Buddhas into Pancha Amrita or five-fold nectar. Even though I cannot interpret most of the narrative, the substance of it weighs heavily towards the most subtle or sublime aspects of Yogacara run through both a Formless and then perhaps what you could call a Deified Form experience.

I cannot quite tell anyone to try to become a Delog or any type of physical or Hatha technique. These things are to be aware of and consider how they may fit to one's own existence.

I find it very telling that the Vajra Rosary combines what I am more familiar with as Deathlessness to the practice of Bliss which is expanded into families and realms and so forth.

[Old Student]

I do hope this comment comes out where I tried to put it, as a response to Agape. I have tried to post it several times now and it did something else, appending to other of my comments. If it does so this time I will just leave it.

Do you mean that the shaking you feel is at your heart -- causing palpitations and tachycardia?

[Old Student]

The principal historical rivalry between Brahmanism and Buddhism is there largely because Adi Shankara did not hear of the Nirakara or Para Sunya philosophy in Buddhism.

Buddhism was an anti-brahminical movement from its inception. I had told you I began reading the Avatamsaka Sutra (Thomas Cleary ed.), I'm on page 110, and so far they are delineating the "enlightening beings" gathered at Buddha's enlightenment. Among them are all the demon level supernaturals. They had been converted because they would have lived lives in hell in the brahminical world, the Vedic world, but were saved from this suffering by all of the methods they memorialize in that chapter. The parable value of such stories to the masses to convert people away from the brahminical system with its castes is pretty clear.

Avatamsaka Sutra was compiled, if not some of it also written, in Khotan in the period from 200-400 C.E. Adi Shankara is 700 C.E. It already discusses three vehicles.


The meditation may resemble destruction because it penetrates that part of the Dharma Realm which withstands the destruction of a world-system. We could say at that time, there are those beings who are in a Deathless condition and have the Paramartha, and those who do not who will simply be eliminated.

I do not think this follows as an only conclusion in Buddhist thought. I was specifically instructed by my Zen master not to seek this state.


That is why I think it behooves us to stick around Prajna Paramita or perhaps Upaya Paramita, which is like a working bundle of the vast majority of the teachings. Also that the only real technique suggested for outer Yoga practice is Soft Vase breathing. When we get into more advanced, specialized things, certain techniques may benefit some and not others. Traditionally, this is where the guru's personal instruction is desired.


Hence my question about the Dakinis. Shaking is very old, it is perhaps the oldest of techniques. But it does turn out to be a place where the ego can be shed, and the worlds that result from that are so far endless.

[shaberon]

Buddhism was an anti-brahminical movement from its inception.

Perhaps. What does Buddha say that would indicate so?

As far as caste and everything about institutions, yes, probably contra, but as far as the inner meaning of yoga, not as much. For example, he rejected Karma Kanda or intricately-ritualized daily behavior, but then Kalachakra is a pretty big daily routine. However it is not the rules for all householders. So that message was telling the majority of Hindus that the things they spend most of their time with, are unnecessary. I can imagine that being liberating to some, insulting to others.

The Kriya tantras are designed to handcuff any Brahmanical converts who come in with the "Tirtha" mentality, which is the Buddhist way of scoffing at such Vedic ritualism as believing that jumping in the Ganges will save you. If you think that way, then, the lowest level of tantra will have meaning for you and you can have a full life doing it and the inner meaning will never be imparted.

Samdhi Nirmocana is probably the oldest recognizable Yogacara text from ca. 150.




I do not think this follows as an only conclusion in Buddhist thought. I was specifically instructed by my Zen master not to seek this state.


Yes most Zen and Chan as far as I am aware are Sakara Vada or Cittamatra Yogacara which would typically either deny Nirakara exists or teach against it. It generally only will be allowed in some Sakya, Jonang, or Kagyu, mainly in the influence of Dolpopa.

I am sure that is provisionally true, it is not necessarily advisable for everyone to try it. Since I know it exists, I would go so far as to say it is important to do something else, first. Something like it would be best to stabilize an outer Yoga practice, with Ngondro or Preliminaries and some basic modifications.

It is hard to explain. I was watching Bees and began to get either a Shimmering Mirage or Roiling Smoke as a First Sign, along with the pale yellowish generic life aura of everything. The learning curve was actually pretty flat for several months, and then, in a short period of time, it went through the rest of the Signs or all of Dissolutions like Death guided by Tara, except I didn't have any Tara, just the disintegration of a bindu and a non- or would-be syllable and therefor no real subsequent arising of a Hand Symbol, more like skeletal fingers. Like a poor, flimsy way of doing a Suksma Cycle. It took probably a year or so to feel how Bliss was involved and by that point, I was probably in the Laya Yoga camp, with still little of anything from Buddhism. I had to check it out for a long time before I was willing to take Refuge in it. Then I still had to flail around with different kinds of Guru Yoga until the plain Vajradhara kind "clicked" and I learned more about the Kagyu system from books than in the meditation hall. They never gave me any kind of catechism, I went through everything, found the affinity, and eventually went back a few more times. Esoterically, however, they give you Prajnaparamita, which means you may become a devotee.

I can still remember a bottle of cleaner I hallucinated on my first visit.


Here is an extremely complicated Vasubandhu (https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book/abhidharmako%C5%9Ba/d/doc115541.html) document from Abhidharmakosa, a fairly early (5th century) Yogacara cornerstone. For this article to make sense to any kind of audience, they must at least have a concept of why there would be six kinds of Arhats and so forth. And so on this page, we see Nirodha used in a basic way in the Four Noble Truths, and, further along, it returns in:

The Anāgāmin who has acquired extinction is considered a Kāyasākṣin.

An Anangamin is not yet even an Arhat, and yet he has some aspect of Nirodha that makes him a Kaya (Buddha Body) Saksin (Witness).

It could perhaps be said that Nirodha is a matter of degree, like Nirvana. If Vairocana is Brahma or Shanpa or the Entrance to Nirvana, and we know this is actually a metaphysical crux at the core of one's skull which can increase its power, then like many other things, Nirodha comes at a Conceptual level before it is Actual:

When he [the Yogin] enters into Nirvāṇa, he suppresses the five aggregates of attachment (pañcopādānaskandha) that will be continued no longer: that is the notion of cessation (nirodhasaṃjñā)”.

According to Ten Concepts of Prajnaparamita prior to Ten Knowledges (Jnana). However it is not "this statement" that is the concept--the experience Nirvana and the suppression of the Skandhas is itself the concept of Nirodha. Once you find out how to use this gate of Nirvana, it is not a static picture, the Actual Knowledge will grow on the Concept.

Vasubandhu's Abhidharmakosa page refers to Kama Dhatu many times, until, at the end, there is a Nirodha Dhatu. So, at least, in this one spot, Nirodha runs from the End of Suffering to Sphere of Annihilation. Suffering is largely synonymous with Kama Dhatu.



Adi Shankara was in Kanchi, South India, somewhat closely contemporaneous to Haribhadra, who may have the first recension that distinguishes Nirakara Vijnana Vada as a viewpoint, which, in its own terms, may also be called Para Sunya, which instead would closely associate it with the Shiva view of the same. Adi Shankara died when he was only thirty-two, and, never encountered these particular representatives from North India, such as Haribhadra or anyone similar.

Buddhism simply allows multiple viewpoints, and plenty of the lifelong practitioners like to acquire empowerments from several gurus and schools.

There definitely is a "psychic radar" that can alert you when other advanced beings are present and one of the few who ever set mine off was a Nyingma Dzogchen master. Well he was speaking in a Kagyu assembly. He is not even part of our school and I am pretty sure we may have a few philosophical differences and I bet he focused almost entirely on Illusory Body because he had been in a cave for most of the last twenty years. He replied positively to me wanting his opinion on Kama Loka, being the same thing relevant to Death or Dreams, and he said yes it was so, and that any boundaries or limitations in it were only those placed by one's own mind.

I can't put any extra words in his mouth, but, I got the sense he was speaking from something he had personally observed.

Shentong purports to be a Middle Way between Prasangika and Cittamatra.

Prasangika is the main philosophy of H. H. Dalai Lama's school which says that ultimately, nothing can be ascribed to emptiness other than it is empty of any nature, whereas Shentong says it has its own Nature which is Absolute and therefor unlike anything else.

Cittamatra tends to say that the mind has an image and undergoes changes from moment to moment, whereas Shentong would tend to say that this is an "other" nature that the Absolute does not have. This is where it is pretty close to the doctrine of Parabrahm or Nirguna Brahman of the Adwaitees.

I am personally more of a Shentong proponent, and am trying to show its historical continuity to the Sanskrit originals, particularly since its reasonable chance to thrive was somewhat suppressed by the Gelug order.

As a personality, I would say that anyone who enjoys Samadhi of any kind is doing well. In a generic sense, I think it should be like a free handout in the first grade. I believe it would improve mind, health, and social order. The rest of the details and training are like an accelerant for the avid.

With the Dakinis, it appears they have a very cyclical aspect. There is a reason to speak of Five Dakinis, associated with the five-fold bundle of form, but then there is reason to speak of Four Dakinis who are the inner petals to various central deities.

The Four are also said to correspond to the highest four Bodhisattva Bhumis or Paramitas. So to even look at Upaya Paramita is like asking to stand permanently on the Ground associated with the first Dakini, who is easy to remember, because her name is always just Dakini.

In my view, because I understand Parasol and Vairocani at least a little bit, Vajradakini proudly steps forward as an operative power. She is Upeksha, which is in the Four Brahma Vihara which are copied from Brahmanism and present in practically all Buddhist Sadhanas, and ultimately she is the Seventh Jewel of Enlightenment, beyond Samadhi, itself, which must make Upeksha something more metaphysical and more Buddhist than in most other Yoga. All of Vairocani's retinue, from Pranava Varnani on out, are all Vajradakinis. Then Vajradakini is the samaya for the major Varahi or Cinnamasta deities.

Parasol even does us the favor in her Six Arm form of losing the Parasol from her white form. She then has a blue manifestation as Maha Pratyangira in Vajra Family. Immediately this suggests a female variety of the six-arm blue male deity of the heart in Father Tantra.

Without anything more than a general picture of Parasol and the specific manifestations of Vajradakini at the crown and elsewhere, that whole slice of existence starts to work. I do not have to invoke or think much about the dakini on an individual basis, it is like she is packed into one of Parasol's items.

[Agape]

I do hope this comment comes out where I tried to put it, as a response to Agape. I have tried to post it several times now and it did something else, appending to other of my comments. If it does so this time I will just leave it.

Do you mean that the shaking you feel is at your heart -- causing palpitations and tachycardia?

It always starts “at heart” as long as I remember about it. It’s not something that I’d experience too often but I’m quite familiar with it because it occurs at times I get some kind of shock ( or threat). A serious one, that goes beyond my processing abilities of that moment.
It does not have to be about me at all, may be a news of ailing friend.

I’ve always had subtle experiences, back to when I was a child and learned to work with them on my own before I ever got to proper meditation practice.

Someone may not understand what’s my “real take” on anything because I’m a kind of information and energy processor ( right from childhood), so no matter what’s going on outside, I am there to withstand it and sort it out.
My mum would say she took me on her lap when she felt uncomfortable and the energy would get processed and calmed.

I’m in power off-stand from within at most times because I know too much now ( years and years of research, study , comparing to my own information and so forth) and some of it may take years to process.

In the meantime - I think I’ve been too much on the emotional - empathetic side of things for many years now due to other people’s life illnesses and situation requiring my full time and attention and while I’ve did the best I could do for them,
tthey have seriously mistreated - and kind of misappropriated - me at the end of the story. Edging human trafficking. The next person would probably use me as household cleaner, in the UK.

It all went down very fast considering and I could not do anything against or start crying even. The consequences would be even more dramatic.

I’m one person who can’t handle big human emotions for very long time - unless watching movie :)
Naturally, I’m sort of too shy probably even conservative. Humour saves my everyday but I’ve always too serious on inside. So when things go down I stop talking on spot.
I don’t like talking about how I feel if something bad happens.

Yesterday, when I wrote this down I felt some peace of heart soon after.


I’ve even asked my heart, in jest “and why are you doing this really” and the answer, half in jest too was “I’m trying to wake you up to what’s going on outside since you carry as if you’re not noticing”.

Fair enough. It’s not that I’m not wake enough or “not noticing”, I think it’s the opposite. I’m taking in too much. My memory too is like of elephants.
I can tell you what the scene and the road were like, 20 years later.
That’s how I sometimes end up in one bag with some kind of “victims” 😅
It’s when I take another take on what’s already happened long ago because I understand the algorithm yet better ..


I do understand your “shaking practice” is quite enjoyable for you and you learn to control your heart muscle better.
But : not sure it’s very “healthy” in long run as it could cause rhythm distortions and palpitations in long run. Be careful not to catch bad flu.



🙏

[Agape]

The principal historical rivalry between Brahmanism and Buddhism is there largely because Adi Shankara did not hear of the Nirakara or Para Sunya philosophy in Buddhism.

Buddhism was an anti-brahminical movement from its inception. I had told you I began reading the Avatamsaka Sutra (Thomas Cleary ed.), I'm on page 110, and so far they are delineating the "enlightening beings" gathered at Buddha's enlightenment. Among them are all the demon level supernaturals. They had been converted because they would have lived lives in hell in the brahminical world, the Vedic world, but were saved from this suffering by all of the methods they memorialize in that chapter. The parable value of such stories to the masses to convert people away from the brahminical system with its castes is pretty clear.

Avatamsaka Sutra was compiled, if not some of it also written, in Khotan in the period from 200-400 C.E. Adi Shankara is 700 C.E. It already discusses three vehicles.


The meditation may resemble destruction because it penetrates that part of the Dharma Realm which withstands the destruction of a world-system. We could say at that time, there are those beings who are in a Deathless condition and have the Paramartha, and those who do not who will simply be eliminated.

I do not think this follows as an only conclusion in Buddhist thought. I was specifically instructed by my Zen master not to seek this state.


That is why I think it behooves us to stick around Prajna Paramita or perhaps Upaya Paramita, which is like a working bundle of the vast majority of the teachings. Also that the only real technique suggested for outer Yoga practice is Soft Vase breathing. When we get into more advanced, specialized things, certain techniques may benefit some and not others. Traditionally, this is where the guru's personal instruction is desired.


Hence my question about the Dakinis. Shaking is very old, it is perhaps the oldest of techniques. But it does turn out to be a place where the ego can be shed, and the worlds that result from that are so far endless.


I have problems with post editing, too difficult to do efficiently on the small phone screen.


It’s a good and practical question. In today’s India the situation between Hindu and Buddhist pandits is in centuries old stalemate.

Enlightened philosophers and scholars who happened to study both will always agree on One-ness of meaning and are aware of co-emergence of both, of course but there are not many truly enlightened ones on the Planet at any times ( it always surprises me) though I tend to believe that so many would get “there” and beyond the philosophical argument if they produced little more diligent effort.

Perhaps their enlightenments can be called “conditioned enlightenments” but as long as they see and propagate their own system as one only, superior to others, they’re both un-well educated, in my opinion and can’t be called enlightened on pretext of belief in particular racial or ethnic group.


So in today’s modern, educated and secular India, most people still observe the distinction between “Buddhists” and “Hindus” as if they were too distant philosophies and categories of teachings.
In reality both visit each other’s temples and teachers, follow practice and worship that has precisely the same meaning on inside yet they would shy away from attending “someone’s else’s ceremonies”. Some people, anyway :)

More often this has to do with language and the extra effort we have to put to studying Sanskrit , Pali or Tibetan.

Tibetan Buddhism is a world of its own with vast linguistic heritage that stands apart from Vedic sutras and Sanskrit based sadhanas.

Very few Buddhist monks bothered themselves with studying Vedas and where the “philosophical argument” started.


I think, it’s a similar situation to people who never read Bible or Koran but “heard what’s written” from someone else, in disjointed quotes.


Unless one reads the “full book”, capturing the meaning albeit on multiple levels is impossible.


I’m sure you are right: in Buddha’s times Buddhism itself had to start as kind of socio-political movement, thus it separated itself from unwanted or excessive practices and social elements of its times.

If people back then understood the message they could have well returned to the live they lived - and their practice- with better perspective.

I think the same has happened both in Nepal and later Tibet and northern parts of India while the two trends eventually reached consonance.

84 Indian Mahasiddhas and many famous yogis studied with both Hindu and Buddhist teachers.

In reality, I’ve met people “like that” but they are extremely hard to find nowadays.



But back to the core, I believe that pure “Brahmanism” ( for whatever the term is worth ) that is Hindu Dharma - also called Sanatana Dharma ( the “eternal law”) is always pure principles and should never be attacked, from inside.

In the commentary to Stainless Light , I found a passage written by Manjuyasas I believe ( I wanted to copy the page but didn’t so maybe later)
where he sort of “confirms” some of my worries about the topic.

He states ( in very blunt words) that when the Kalachakra and the rest of other-worldly ( anuttara) teachings and practices will be taught to all castes without distinction under the umbrella of Buddhist teachings,
their meaning and purity of practice will decline and both impure students and teachers will end up in hell.
He describes well what happens with shudra disciples ( who were not previously purified by study of philosophy or ritual cleanliness) once they receive higher initiations, they embrace their meaning “as it stands” without refined discernment and discrimination and commit countless misjudgements based on the presumption of understanding alone.
He goes on and on detailing exactly what happens and it’s quite to the point.


The tear between Hindu and Buddhist philosophies should have never happened - firstly, it’s unreal since traditional Hinduism considers Buddha Shakyamuni an Avatar of Mahavishnu and secondly,
it produces more confusion and ne-science than virtue.

If both repeat the meaning of “yog” is Unity ( Ekata) the Unity should be the sole objective. The rest of religions are exactly about the same thing.

“Law of One” means the same thing.

It’s slightly more profound than “Mahashunya” for sure but any emptiness is not bigger or better than one of our great cosmic voids.


🍵

[shaberon]

The tear between Hindu and Buddhist philosophies should have never happened - firstly, it’s unreal since traditional Hinduism considers Buddha Shakyamuni an Avatar of Mahavishnu and secondly,
it produces more confusion and ne-science than virtue.


On this, we should perhaps say "some" Hindu sects claim Buddha as an avatar.

This is sometimes viewed as "fence-mending propaganda" since the whole point of Buddha is that he is not an avatar, and the spot should be granted to Mohini or Jagganatha.

Vishnu Avatars only speaks of the ten "major" incarnations, which are the pattern of planetary formation as well as fetal development. It ignores Hayagriva, who resurges in Buddhism as something very important, unlike Krishna. Overall, Vishnu--Narayan has one act known to us, where he is granted Magic War Chariot Victory Goddess or Mahamaya Vijayavahini. Otherwise, he is converted into Akshobya.

The oldest strands of Buddhism may have been fairly un-educated, but, they were not all monks, there has always been householder community. But by the development of Nalanda University, it was filled with thousands of books, mostly the Hindu classics. The universities could also take thousands of students at a time, unlike most Viharas.

Nepalis are often Buddhists and Hindus at the same time.

What makes you one or the other? I am a Buddhist because I believe in Refuge Vow. I may not be a Hindu, not because of disagreeing with something, but they probably require some kind of baptism ritual or other affair I have not had. I am not a Christian because I disagree with the teaching that one is judged for eternity based on one earthly incarnation. I could try to argue that some of the Christian Gnostics supported reincarnation, but, since there was such a major movement to define and stamp out Heresy, at that point, I think they removed whatever may have gotten me to agree with it. As far as I know, the only real Gnostic communities these days are closed societies, I cannot just join them.

I am not good at Tibetan, but, in Vajra Rosary, they are dealing with the action of Lung in order to unite with Yeshe.

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is at least this same subject.

It can be shown that Sadanga or Six Limb Yoga is not the same as Patanjali's Eight Limb Yoga. In some cases, we can find specific differences like this.

There is a quite old text which I believe is called Tattva Samgraha, which is around 400 pages of Buddhist refutation of every Hindu philosophy. After a certain point, I did not get much value from it.



Paramartha quite confidently is a or the goal. See how it is conjoined with Sat, "Real Existence" of the trinity Sat--Chit--Ananda, or Truth or Satya Loka (highest of the world systems):

Satya (सत्य) or Dvisatya refers to the “two truths” as defined in the Dharma-saṃgraha (section 95):

saṃvṛti-satya (conventional truth),
paramārtha-satya (ultimate truth).


paramārtha (परमार्थ).—m (S) The highest and most excellent object or end of man, viz. the attainment and enjoyment of the Divine nature. Pr. prapañcālā dhana paramārthālā vairāgya For the present life, riches; but for the fruition of God, spirituality. 1 John i. 7. 2 Truth, pure truth: as opp. to all manner of error and illusion.

1) the highest or most sublime truth, true spiritual knowledge, knowledge about Brahman or the Supreme Spirit; इदं हि तत्त्वं परमार्थभाजाम् (idaṃ hi tattvaṃ paramārthabhājām) Mv.7.2.

It is often translated as Absolute Object in the tantras.

In the following, we can probably find that Prasangika is a very literal interpretation, whereas Shentong might say the "elimination of prejudices" would allow the conversation to change slightly.

Prajnaparamita says:

1) The absolute (paramārtha) is the true nature of dharmas (dharmānāṃ bhūtalakṣaṇam or dharmatā) because it is indestructible and inalterable. This true nature of dharmas itself is empty (śūnya). Why? Because there is no grasping (upādāna) or attachment (abhiniveśa) [in regard to it]. If the true nature of dharmas existed, one would be able to take it and become attached to it, but as it does not really exist, one does not take it and one does not become attached to it. If one does take it and becomes attached to it, that is a mistake.

2) Furthermore, the dharma supreme among all dharmas (paramadharma) is called nirvāṇa. Thus it is said in the Abhidharma:[2] “What are the dharmas surpassed by others (sottara)? These are: a) all conditioned dharmas (saṃskṛtadharma); b) space (ākāśa); c) cessation not due to knowledge (apratisaṃkhyānirodha). – What is the unsurpassed (anuttara) dharma? It is cessation due to knowledge (pratisaṃkhyānirodha).”[3] But cessation due to knowledge is nirvāṇa.

II. Emptiness of nirvāṇa
[288c] In nirvāṇa, there is no nature of nirvāṇa (nirvāṇalakṣaṇa), and the emptiness of nirvāṇa is the emptiness of the absolute (paramārthaśūnyatā).

Question. – If nirvāṇa is empty and without nature, why do the saints enter into the three Vehicles (yāna) and enter into nirvāṇa? Furthermore, it is said that “all the teachings of the Buddha lead to nirvāṇa” (nirvānaparyavasānāḥ sarve buddhadharmāḥ)[4] like waves all enter into the sea.

Answer. – There ‘is’ (asti) a nirvāṇa:[5] it is the supreme jewel (paramaratna), the dharma without superior (anuttaradharma),[6] and it is of two kinds: i) nirvāṇa with residue of conditioning (sopadhiśeṣanirvāṇa); ii) nirvāṇa without residue of conditioning (nirupadhiśeṣanirvāṇa). The nirvāṇa with residue of conditioning is the cutting off of all the passions, thirst, etc. (sarveṣāṃ tṛṣṇādikleśānāṃ prahāṇam); the nirvāṇa without residue of conditioning is the exhaustion of the five aggregates assumed by the saint (āryopāttānāṃ pañcaskandhānāṃ kusayaḥ) during the present life and the fact that they will not be taken up anew. Therefore it is impossible to say that there is no nirvāṇa.

But hearing the name of nirvāṇa pronounced, beings produce wrong views (mithyādṛṣṭi), become attached (abhiniviśante) to the sound (ghoṣa) of nirvāṇa and provoke futile discussions (prapañca) on its existence (bhāva) or its non-existence (abhāva). It is in order to destroy these prejudices (abhiniveśa) that the emptiness of nirvāṇa (nirvāṇaśūnyatā) is taught here.

If people are attached to existence (bhāva), they are attached to saṃsāra; if they are attached to non-existence (abhāva), they are attached to nirvāṇa. [For myself], I destroy the nirvāṇa, the one that is desired (abhiniviṣṭa) by worldly people (pṛthagjana); I do not destroy nirvāṇa, the one that is grasped (upalabdha) by the saints (ārya). Why? Because the saints do not grasp any characteristic (na nimittam udgṛhṇanati) in any dharma.

Furthermore, the passions, thirst, etc. (tṛṣṇādikleśa) are metaphorically called (prajñapyante) ‘bonds’ (bandhana). If the path (mārga) is cultivated, these bonds are untied and the deliverance (vimukti) called nirvāṇa is obtained: apart from that there is no dharma that is ‘nirvāṇa’.[7]

Imagine a man bound in chains who, once he is freed, engages in vain chatter, saying: “Here are the chains, here are the feet, what then is deliverance?” This man is foolish to look for a dharma ‘deliverance’ outside the feet and chains. Beings do the same thing when they seek a dharma ‘deliverance’ elsewhere than the chains of the five aggregates (skandha).

Finally, dharmas are not separate from the absolute (paramārtha) and the absolute is not separate from the true nature (bhūtalakṣaṇa) of dharmas. The result is that the emptiness of the true nature of dharmas is the ‘emptiness of the absolute’. These are the various names used to designate the emptiness of the absolute.


So there is a Conceptual level where skandhas are temporarily stopped, and an Actual level where they are completely gone. In Vajra Rosary terms, this would be much like the Non-conceptual mind mounted on the Non-conceptual wind, temporarily or utterly. If what I experienced amounts to a "temporary concept", it is Samjna Nirodha. From here, I would tend to say "emptiness of the Absolute" is something other than the removal of prejudiced notions about it. Similarly, it looks like Buddha never denied Atma, he denied all ideas about it or beliefs in it. So I think you have to not merely lack notions, you have to significantly change the energy-winds to even begin to perceive what is being indicated by something that sounds redundant like "emptiness of nirvana".

This is also where Buddhism does not seem to fit the teaching of seven planes, which defines Satya as seventh. In other words, its "inherent existence" is denied. It is only intercepted as a result of the practical Noumenal Path. From reading the practices, they require one to stand on the highest, purest part of Kama Loka, and from there, you can more or less begin crossing the Mental Plane or Akash, mostly by quelling the mind's activities. At that point, you are not going to other planets or anything like that, you are becoming fused to qualities. If I try to bug the system about what or where Satya Loka is, then it will just kick me back to the Prajnaparamita article. It will force me to find out.

The Prajnaparamita deity is Paramartha Krama.

The closest male with these Yogacara terms is Khasarpana. Manjuvajra is the only one to mention Vajra Kaya:

tvaṃ vajrakāya bahusattvapriyāṅkacakra
buddhārthabodhiparamārthahitanudarśī /

Even if I do not know exactly what he is saying, it comes pretty close to Paramartha there. And so Paramartha is supposed to be the Third Nature-or-naturelessness, and it is not really a whole new tantra or sutra or system, other than we would probably have to say it crosses the Third Void into the Cosmic or Para Sunya, a place or plane in an absolute condition of Prabhasvara or "Clear Light", therefor the teachings are mostly about getting you there and back.

[Old Student]

Perhaps. What does Buddha say that would indicate so?

As far as caste and everything about institutions, yes, probably contra, but as far as the inner meaning of yoga, not as much.

Bingo. As far as caste and everything about institutions. This is precisely what defines an anti-brahminical movement, be it Buddhism, Jainism, tantra, or any other. The point is that they recruited locally by promising an end to the notion that one would have to wait until a proper birth in the brahmin caste to seek an end to suffering -- an end to suffering was possible by following the eightfold path.

Meanwhile, if you look at what might be called the first period of expansion of the Buddhist World, the rule of Ashoka with his pillars and emissaries, even including eventually the questioning of Menander, the Greek satrap (did you know that "satrap" comes from "kshatriya"), the emphasis was on superior medical skills. That is what is promoted in the advertisements cut in stone at the bottom of the pillars of Ashoka. That superior medical knowledge came from living in the charnel grounds -- an automatic anatomy lesson with the meditations there. And probably the three channels and the knots between them -- the description matches a dissection of and revealing of the sympathetic nervous system and their ganglia with the spine.

Heruka started historically as a demon, he rose eventually to bodhisattva by converting to Buddhism -- something impossible for someone born to such a low birth as a demon, not even human, in the brahminical system.


Yes most Zen and Chan as far as I am aware are Sakara Vada or Cittamatra Yogacara which would typically either deny Nirakara exists or teach against it. It generally only will be allowed in some Sakya, Jonang, or Kagyu, mainly in the influence of Dolpopa.

I am sure that is provisionally true, it is not necessarily advisable for everyone to try it. Since I know it exists, I would go so far as to say it is important to do something else, first. Something like it would be best to stabilize an outer Yoga practice, with Ngondro or Preliminaries and some basic modifications.

He didn't teach against it because it was doctrine. It may well be, I do not know of such doctrine. And you are probably correct "it is not necessarily advisable for everyone to try it." He taught that what I was doing would always lead to a stopping, and that there was another way. Whether stopping is just right for someone else, I'm not arguing. That fits well with, for instance the Avatamsaka Sutra, which ticks off literally thousands of ways that beings of thousands of types reach liberation.

That it is a necessary step and only some people have been born to be able to do that in this lifetime, that's distinctly the braminical doctrine of "wait until you are high-born enough" that Buddha did not teach.


If Vairocana is Brahma or Shanpa or the Entrance to Nirvana, and we know this is actually a metaphysical crux at the core of one's skull which can increase its power, then like many other things, Nirodha comes at a Conceptual level before it is Actual:

When he [the Yogin] enters into Nirvāṇa, he suppresses the five aggregates of attachment (pañcopādānaskandha) that will be continued no longer: that is the notion of cessation (nirodhasaṃjñā)”.

According to Ten Concepts of Prajnaparamita prior to Ten Knowledges (Jnana). However it is not "this statement" that is the concept--the experience Nirvana and the suppression of the Skandhas is itself the concept of Nirodha. Once you find out how to use this gate of Nirvana, it is not a static picture, the Actual Knowledge will grow on the Concept.

This is what I had been talking about before. Suppression of the senses does not mean that reality is silent. That silence isn't reality, it precedes it. Reality is apprehending the world with the senses suppressed.

I have a very different path than you, I do my core meditation and the bliss you are alluding to during my shaking. In some sense, it is more primitive and primal than shikantaza, or than standing, or than mantrayana or mandalayana. It was around long before sitting meditation, it was never reliable because only some people had it happen to them, which somehow doesn't seem to have changed, so better methods -- more reliable methods -- were developed. But it still works for those for whom it works. When the senses are suppressed, when the chains limiting the size of reality come off, reality blazes with the full infinity it really has.


With the Dakinis, it appears they have a very cyclical aspect. There is a reason to speak of Five Dakinis, associated with the five-fold bundle of form, but then there is reason to speak of Four Dakinis who are the inner petals to various central deities.

The Four are also said to correspond to the highest four Bodhisattva Bhumis or Paramitas. So to even look at Upaya Paramita is like asking to stand permanently on the Ground associated with the first Dakini, who is easy to remember, because her name is always just Dakini.

It was the Dakinis who called it, "Skillful Means," and me who translated it into upaya. I am not sure what it means to "look at Upaya Paramita," my only practice of it is to go flitting through someone's consciousness, and was told this can, but does not have to, cause them to stop, interrupts their normal course, and can produce change. I would think it would indeed take a lot more to order this up, to know what needed to be done, and to whom to do it. I would also add that even this is completely not trivial. It came after a long course of training, it produced a very hellish churning of emotions and blocks and the like, and I can barely do it. Last night, this tee'd up again, and then I did not perceive anything happening. I have no idea whether it happened or not, to give an idea as to how elusive this is.

[Old Student]

I do understand your “shaking practice” is quite enjoyable for you and you learn to control your heart muscle better.
But : not sure it’s very “healthy” in long run as it could cause rhythm distortions and palpitations in long run. Be careful not to catch bad flu.
I'm not sure that I have such a choice or that it is entirely enjoyment. It does not start at my heart at all, which is why I asked. Since I have been doing shaking I am in better muscular and otherwise physical shape, it is quite strenuous.

The closest thing I can think of within my experience to your palpitations is my breathing problem. It is caused by malfunctioning of probably one or the other vagus nerves. I learned from the Dakinis in my shaking two techniques for stopping the problem, both of which I can only sometimes accomplish (when there isn't a problem they are easy, when there is, they are essentially digging into that nerve so they are hard). The first is to shake further and further into my chest until I can "grab" my esophagus and trachea and shake them. The second is by taking a drop of pre-bliss to my heart, separating it, and letting the bliss part descend and the nausea part ascend, in other words, inducing nausea. This is not the same as inducing vomiting, this is inducing the widespread feeling of nausea.

But that malfunction is not caused by shaking, it happens from time to time -- right now maybe once a month or so.

[Old Student]

In reality both visit each other’s temples and teachers, follow practice and worship that has precisely the same meaning on inside yet they would shy away from attending “someone’s else’s ceremonies”. Some people, anyway.

Sounds like when I was living in China and if you asked people, "Are you Confucian, Buddhist, or Daoist," the answer was usually, "Yes."

Yes, that is true, in fact, it's sort of true whenever one moves away from Judeo-Christian-Muslim with the concept of one true god. And has been for a long time. Kanishka the Great used to print coins that were Buddhist, Zoroastrian, and Olympian, so it has been that way for a long time. In earlier Buddhism, in "proto-Vajrayana" Central Asia which is kind of called that by modern scholars because of prejudice over who is and is not cultured enough to start something, people chose among the three vehicles based on personal predilection and guru advice. Believe it or not, the original thing which produced an actual outbreak of controversy between Hinayana and Mahayana was a dispute over serendipitous meat (meat from an animal that was killed but not by a person). The Hinayana did not believe it could be eaten. Which means once upon a time Mahayana did.


He states ( in very blunt words) that when the Kalachakra and the rest of other-worldly ( anuttara) teachings and practices will be taught to all castes without distinction under the umbrella of Buddhist teachings,
their meaning and purity of practice will decline and both impure students and teachers will end up in hell.

Kalachakra and Vimalaphrabha (I assume this is what you mean by the Stainless Light commentary) were written/adopted during the collapse of the Buddhist World. Yusuf Qadir Khan successfully conquered Khotan and slaughtered all the Buddhists they could find there, including following and poisoning the son of the Guge king for the Tibetans having joined the fight against them. They wrote hagiographies extolling the level of violence afterwards. Mahmud of Ghazni sacked temples, and toppled the Great Stupa of Kanishka at (modern day) Peshawar. The two divided up the region and Maha Bahar (Balkh/Bactria) was sacked as well. The Chole, who were Hindu but not enlightened as to being one with Buddhists, sacked Srivijaya's capital Palimbang, and the Sena conquered the Palas in the East, and forced Buddhists in Orissa and Bengal to become "cryptobuddhists".

The two tantras, especially the Vimalaprabha, reflect this. So did subsequent behavior, Tibet going out to find new foundation documents for their Buddhism in Vikramsila and Nalanda, the Pagan emperor Anawrutha going to Sri Lanka for his new versions. Everybody felt Buddhism had left the path and this collapse was the consequence. So a period when people were loathe to let their truths be told to the wrong ears. Most especially the "Mleccha", who at the time meant the Muslim invaders, and still sort of does.

I know Indians who are "noble born" and had thread ceremonies. If pressed, many of them even know the varnas and jatis of their ancestors back some ways and where they migrated from. I daresay no European is really such, if the strict rules of the 11th century be applied.

[Agape]

I do understand your “shaking practice” is quite enjoyable for you and you learn to control your heart muscle better.
But : not sure it’s very “healthy” in long run as it could cause rhythm distortions and palpitations in long run. Be careful not to catch bad flu.
I'm not sure that I have such a choice or that it is entirely enjoyment. It does not start at my heart at all, which is why I asked. Since I have been doing shaking I am in better muscular and otherwise physical shape, it is quite strenuous.

The closest thing I can think of within my experience to your palpitations is my breathing problem. It is caused by malfunctioning of probably one or the other vagus nerves. I learned from the Dakinis in my shaking two techniques for stopping the problem, both of which I can only sometimes accomplish (when there isn't a problem they are easy, when there is, they are essentially digging into that nerve so they are hard). The first is to shake further and further into my chest until I can "grab" my esophagus and trachea and shake them. The second is by taking a drop of pre-bliss to my heart, separating it, and letting the bliss part descend and the nausea part ascend, in other words, inducing nausea. This is not the same as inducing vomiting, this is inducing the widespread feeling of nausea.

But that malfunction is not caused by shaking, it happens from time to time -- right now maybe once a month or so.



Guess what: if I ever start shaking ( tremor like vibration) I do not call it “palpitation” either. However, when the “impulse” to this starts at heart,
I’ve observed “palpitation” occurs naturally ( without medical cause or reason).

The effect- if it lasts longer than an hour for example- but in extreme cases it can last many days together is a mild “trance state”. My consciousness passes to frequency state where I operate differently, on day to day bases.
Since it’s not quite enjoyable for me either- unless it would be very well attuned, I make an effort to relax and stop it as soon as possible, if possible.

The thing with it is that it can’t be stopped mechanically or from outside, certainly not by drugs or someone giving me “an attitude” or even hug :
those interventions make things genuinely crap.

There may be exceptions to the rule but if they exist, the situation itself ceases.

Reason: we all vibrate in different parts of energy spectrum.
It’s not something “modern science” understands or defines, quite yet.

Likewise, I can (energetically) help someone who are accessible within the spectrum where I operate but there many people outside of my spectrum also, hence the difficulty.


On the other hand, vibration ( shaking) can be picked from another person or source outside very easily.
There were cases of people who started to shake or dance together passing to altered state of consciousness for months together. No one could ever define “where it came from” really.

If/since you are as physically strong as you describe and pick up that the transformative part of the process, there is something else happening for you than most people experience in long run that will eventually lead to higher state of consciousness.


With respect to names and terms given to forms and their absence through thousands of years of human history, every experience is unique and the “final state” is free of human conditioned mind.
It’s a state far beyond what any human teacher and words can deliver ( unless they would be as learned and eloquent as Shaberon 🌟 )
it does not have any “human mind” left.

That state happens spontaneously( or in some cases by “cutting off” the last rope of attachment) after the energies associated with grasping for particular phenomena -in this human realm- names and forms- are exhausted.
It may take long to any practitioner, no matter how they practice and once they start experiencing “cessation” of the outgoing energy and formations before we arrive “there”.

In that state of matters, wisdom takes over “practice” and life may look as ordinary to onlookers as their own because there’s nothing “longer in it” to work out.
From human beings perspective the “outcome” is as peaceful as can be.

There is always a small chance that the “end” will be disrupted by chance, accidents or someone’s foolishness but whether it is so, matters only to Life itself perhaps.

Even if we have repeated the process thousand times, conditions of this particular time and world we were born into can’t be exactly changed or prevented.


Most of my time now a days I so look forwards to the Space free of human mind, words and arguments 🙏🌟🙏

I can’t change my age or appearance or the way I come through massively but since we are in India people are still spiritually more sensitive in general than they would be in the West.

Balancing my existence carefully between this world and the next, in the empty space in between true meaning emerges clearly.

Till there are dogs and humans around there will be doubting and pushing minds.


🦕

[shaberon]

He didn't teach against it because it was doctrine. It may well be, I do not know of such doctrine. And you are probably correct "it is not necessarily advisable for everyone to try it." He taught that what I was doing would always lead to a stopping, and that there was another way. Whether stopping is just right for someone else, I'm not arguing. That fits well with, for instance the Avatamsaka Sutra, which ticks off literally thousands of ways that beings of thousands of types reach liberation.

My question would be if there is a "known condition" that is to be avoided, what do I do about the regular occurrence of Deep Sleep?

The meditative Voids are the same thing that is said to happen to everyone as Sleep, except instead of going as a helpless, drifting sleeper, you develop lucidity and control.

That there is a dark or black aspect, and a, to us, non-consciousness, is really just a part of normal everyday life. Everyone knows what it is, just not consciously in their brain. The Heart does.

The Wiki article on Dhyana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism) is a pile of collisions, there are debates whether Dhyana is less valuable than Vispasaya--Insight, or that it appears contradictory to tantra in general by avoiding the body at a relatively early point.

It eventually gets to:

Investigation of self

On this point, it is thought that the uses of the elements in early Buddhist literature have in general very little connection to Brahmanical thought; in most places they occur in teachings where they form the objects of a detailed contemplation of the human being. The aim of these contemplations seems to have been to bring about the correct understanding that the various perceived aspects of a human being, when taken together, nevertheless do not comprise a "self." Moreover, the self is conceptualized in terms similar to both "nothingness" and "neither perception nor non-perception" at different places in early Upanishadic literature. The latter corresponds to Yajnavalkya’s definition of the self in his famous dialogue with Maitreyi in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad and to the definition given in the post-Buddhist Mandukya Upanishad. This is mentioned as a claim of non-Buddhist ascetics and Brahmins in the Pañcattaya Sutta (Majjhima Nikaya 102.2). In the same dialogue in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, Yajnavalkya draws the conclusion that the self that is neither perceptive nor non-perceptive is a state of consciousness without object. The early Buddhist evidence suggests much the same thing for the eighth absorption or jhāna, the state of "neither perception nor non-perception". It is a state without an object of awareness, that is not devoid of awareness. The ninth jhāna that is sometimes said to be beyond this state, the "cessation of perception and sensation", is devoid not only of objectivity, but of subjectivity as well.

So the most comprehensive picture includes a Ninth Dhyana which is suspiciously close to Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.

Dhyana is Dzyan which is Chan or Zen, it is Concentration or Dhi which is Samadhi and Samapatti.

Insight or Vispasaya is emphasized mostly in the southern or Theravada sects. I do not know enough about them to explain the difference for them.

Their counter-point would run something like, well, perhaps I did temporarily experience what probably amounted to the Eighth Dhyana, but, the main benefit was an interruption to the Hindrances. They were not permanently removed, and they would argue I did not grow much in wisdom or compassionate action. Because I did not really start it in a Buddhist manner, there is something to this, but once we can find the RGV appends the Womb of Compassion to Voidness, then there is every reason to see them as working partners.

By even trying to "look" at Upaya Paramita, I do not think I have the right Buddha Eye to even try, because my plate is already full trying to comprehend Prajna Paramita as the refined, perfected hostess of all the previous stages. I am sure that Upaya would be Sanskrit for Skillful Means, but, I cannot really say if the Dakini means it in terms of this Paramita. In the strictly tantric sense, it would mean male seed or role, or Father tantra as a category. From there you can get the sub-category of a female form performing the usually-male role.

Since it sounds pretty specific, at least now, to the ability to flit, is it possible to fling gobs of nectar on beings like Vetali does?

That is "kind of" what I am doing with Usnisa mantra while feeding animals, but it is mostly just a thoughtform since I lack any such reservoir in this state.

I do not personally have a Path that is anything other than what is in the scriptures. I have a practice that is based from standard Ngondro, and a few "portable" or "anytime" mantras such as Usnisa. In the context of its own milieu, this is very plain Jane.




Suppression of the senses does not mean that reality is silent. That silence isn't reality, it precedes it. Reality is apprehending the world with the senses suppressed.

Nirvana suppresses the Aggregates, only one of which has senses. It means it suppresses Feeling and Perception as well as Formation/Conception/Ideation, and Consciousness--Vijnana. That is what it means to burn the Tathagatas.

I am not that familiar with Avatamsaka Sutra, but, the last chapter, Entry to the Realm of Reality, has Buddha manifest an infinitely-interpenetrating retinue in Jetvana Grove, but Shariputra and the other disciples are unable to see it. He does it in Lion's Roar Samadhi whose nature is Karuna.

"Why didn't the disciples see any of this?

Because of lack of corresponding roots of goodness. For they had not accumulated the roots of goodness conducive to vision of the transfiguration of all buddhas, and they had not had the purifications of the arrays of qualities of all buddha-lands in the ten
directions described to them, and they had not had the various wonders of all
buddhas described to them by the buddhas, and they had not established
beings in supreme perfect enlightenment while they were involved in the
world, and they had not instilled in others' minds the determination for
enlightenment, and they were not capable of perpetuating the lineage of
buddhas, and they were not engaged in the salvation of all beings, and they
had not exhorted enlightening beings to practice transcendent ways, and
while they were involved in the world they had not focused their minds on
the stage of knowledge superior to all worldlings, and they had not developed the foundations of goodness conducive to omniscience, and they had not perfected the transmundane roots of goodness of buddhas, and they had
not realized the miraculous superknowledge to purify all buddha-lands, and
they did not know the source of the great vow of enlightening beings,
which is the good root of concentration on unique world-transcending
enlightenment that represents the range of vision of enlightening beings,
and they were not born of the magical essence emanating from the power of
the enlightened, and because hearers and individual illuminates do not share
in the knowledge of enlightening beings' control over holding various perceptions as in dreams, the growth of the current of joy of enlightening beings, and the manifestations of the range of the eye of knowledge of the
universally good enlightening being."

Their problems sound mostly like failures at Karuna.

It doesn't say anything like they mis-interpreted the Eighth Dhyana, or lost control of the Wind of Vairocana in the Ajna center on Tuesday evening. But that text is so comprehensive and vault-like, it may, in fact, mean that some missing aspect of Vairocana Wind is "not capable of perpetuating the lineage of Buddhas". That would be the relationship of Sutra to Tantra. This thing could have thousands of facets about winds or chakras, and I have no idea what they are. I do know that the "end" or Gandhavyuha Sutra is tantricly re-iterated as Amoghapasha with Sudhana Kumara and others.

The advanced disciples who were not yet Buddhas but were part of the retinue are described as:

There were also five hundred hearers with great spiritual powers, all of
them perfectly aware of the essence of true reason and the principles of
truth. They had arrived at direct witness of the limit of reality, had penetrated the nature of phenomena, had gotten out of the ocean of existence and into the realm of space of those who have arrived at suchness, had
stopped their propensities and habits and were beyond regression, dwelled in
the abode of nonattachment and nonobstruction, were in a state as tranquil
as space , had cut off all doubt in Buddha, and had entered the path intent on
the ocean of buddha-knowledge.

They may not quite be in Paramartha, but they are in the "Space of Those who have arrived at Suchness" or in the Second Void, or, according to Vajra Rosary, a type of Nirvikalpa. They have stopped their Skandhas (propensities and habits) permanently (beyond regression).

Sat or Satya is one of the main terms for highest reality; in Sadhanamala, Janguli is a Satya Vacanena (Explaining Satya), and Parnasabari absorbs this aspect of her. She and Medicine Buddha are all about herbal and tantric healing, I would guess the teaching owes as much to Ayurveda as to "the Vedas", it is something I think is super-important and there are people who would be much better candidates for it than me.

Someone who has a knack for healing, or sustained visions, has something that I may never have in this lifetime. That is ok. I have strengths that are more psychological in nature which others do not. Different temperaments are just different Families, which are somewhat played out by the variance in schools or philosophies, and that some Yidams are more effective than others.

One should cultivate whatever talent is naturally strong, and when the teaching gets to "the use of all Families equally", and we see how different and difficult this probably is, that is why I say it is really hard to "get" Prajna Paramita as such a well-working combination, or it would be hard to balance a Six Family Wheel.

[Old Student]

Guess what: if I ever start shaking ( tremor like vibration) I do not call it “palpitation” either. However, when the “impulse” to this starts at heart,
I’ve observed “palpitation” occurs naturally ( without medical cause or reason).

Thanks for clarifying. My shaking never starts at my heart, it does sometimes go there, sometimes in great detail, but it digs in to there, it does not emanate outward from there.



If/since you are as physically strong as you describe and pick up that the transformative part of the process, there is something else happening for you than most people experience in long run that will eventually lead to higher state of consciousness.

It may already be the long run. Sometime around now (within the next month) is the two year anniversary of my original clear body experience, and I have been shaking now for a year and a half.


With respect to names and terms given to forms and their absence through thousands of years of human history, every experience is unique and the “final state” is free of human conditioned mind.
It’s a state far beyond what any human teacher and words can deliver ( unless they would be as learned and eloquent as Shaberon 🌟 )
it does not have any “human mind” left.

Then I am lucky my teachers are not human.

Thanks, Agape.

[Old Student]

My question would be if there is a "known condition" that is to be avoided, what do I do about the regular occurrence of Deep Sleep?

The condition we were dealing with is that I was concentrating on a point. I have mentioned to you that I have fairly highly developed ability to visualize, from my math background, and from the same background a fairly highly developed ability to focus during concentration. The two develop together, I once stared so hard while trying to successfully visualize one particular four dimensional object to do a homework assignment, my contacts (which I don't wear anymore) dried out on my eyes because I wasn't blinking at all. I had been told to concentrate on dantian for standing, I carried that into sitting zen. I stopped everything and developed (recurring to this day) problems with "central apnea", where the breathing process just shuts down normal breathing. It can occur briefly in the deep sleep patterns of people who don't have a problem with it, sometimes, but it isn't a desirable condition at all, and causes Cheyne-Stokes breathing even during activity.

The solution is not to concentrate on a point and stop everything, and the zen master pointed to achieving cessation without stopping everything, specifically, meditating instead on breathing or something similar.


The meditative Voids are the same thing that is said to happen to everyone as Sleep, except instead of going as a helpless, drifting sleeper, you develop lucidity and control.

I think I've mentioned before, there is a way during shaking to enter into and to leave a lucid dreaming state. In the visual symbolism of my shaking, this means going inside of a pillar (which arises from my centerline, and from a dissolve which is tabulated in my notes as "brown-skinned earth", in which I dissolve into a woman with brown skin lying on the earth and then rot into the earth. The pillar is usually turned in this view, and arises from dantian or from my navel, it's sufficiently big (as in above, I can walk into it), that it's hard to tell.


The ninth jhāna that is sometimes said to be beyond this state, the "cessation of perception and sensation", is devoid not only of objectivity, but of subjectivity as well.

This seems an oddly written sentence, since it maybe ought to be, "devoid not only of subjectivity, but of objectivity as well."


So the most comprehensive picture includes a Ninth Dhyana which is suspiciously close to Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.

Dhyana is Dzyan which is Chan or Zen, it is Concentration or Dhi which is Samadhi and Samapatti.

Insight or Vispasaya is emphasized mostly in the southern or Theravada sects. I do not know enough about them to explain the difference for them.

I am not familiar with the Upanishad, I am familiar with the rest. It is not substantially different than Daoism in its internal variety, and (for Chan/Zen) is historically linked. But it is not entirely deep sleep similar, it is also precisely the application of the perfect brushstroke in a Zen painting. Which also perfectly embodies interpenetration.

The verse that I had quoted to you before, in Daoist Neidan, they reverse that order to arrive at the Dao. So the ten thousand things become three, which are the jing (semen/bliss), qi (breath/prana), and shen(spirit). These are combined to produce the yang qi and yin qi (symbolized by the Taiji, known in the West as the "yin-yang symbol"). The two then become one, the primordial yang qi (symbolized by an empty circle), and then it returns to the Dao. It is a return to the state before somethingness and nothingness, which create form and essence (which is stated in the first verse of the Daodejing).



It doesn't say anything like they mis-interpreted the Eighth Dhyana, or lost control of the Wind of Vairocana in the Ajna center on Tuesday evening. But that text is so comprehensive and vault-like, it may, in fact, mean that some missing aspect of Vairocana Wind is "not capable of perpetuating the lineage of Buddhas". That would be the relationship of Sutra to Tantra. This thing could have thousands of facets about winds or chakras, and I have no idea what they are. I do know that the "end" or Gandhavyuha Sutra is tantricly re-iterated as Amoghapasha with Sudhana Kumara and others.

Avatamsaka is on its way to being tantra. It has been moving there as scholars take a shot here and a shot there at it, but they don't want to go further than "proto-tantra" right now. They will get there, their problems with that classification amount to some problems with politics, and some problems with not being there yet in the evolution out of believing that all of Buddhism fit into Theravada and Mahayana, and in believing in some strict "evolutions" that are still plaguing all historians in the West.


By even trying to "look" at Upaya Paramita, I do not think I have the right Buddha Eye to even try, because my plate is already full trying to comprehend Prajna Paramita as the refined, perfected hostess of all the previous stages. I am sure that Upaya would be Sanskrit for Skillful Means, but, I cannot really say if the Dakini means it in terms of this Paramita. In the strictly tantric sense, it would mean male seed or role, or Father tantra as a category. From there you can get the sub-category of a female form performing the usually-male role.

Since it sounds pretty specific, at least now, to the ability to flit, is it possible to fling gobs of nectar on beings like Vetali does?

It is the same skillful means as in the scriptures. It is teaching on quite a few fronts -- at least to me. I quailed at it when first presented with it. The idea of interfering in someone's life with seemingly no rhyme or reason doesn't sit well, perhaps not with anyone. But it isn't "me" who's interfering, and it isn't interfering, it is a flow of Skillful Means through the universe, and this particular flow is embodied by "me" and flowing through the someone, and all of the flow of such Skillful Means is to bring sentient beings closer to the Dharma. That is nearly identical with the description of Skillful Means in Thomas Cleary's intro to the sutra, and he definitely means Upaya Paramita.


Someone who has a knack for healing, or sustained visions, has something that I may never have in this lifetime. That is ok.

Likewise for me and stopping my breath or practicing things that would do that.

[shaberon]

It may already be the long run. Sometime around now (within the next month) is the two year anniversary of my original clear body experience, and I have been shaking now for a year and a half.


With respect to names and terms given to forms and their absence through thousands of years of human history, every experience is unique and the “final state” is free of human conditioned mind.
It’s a state far beyond what any human teacher and words can deliver ( unless they would be as learned and eloquent as Shaberon 🌟 )
it does not have any “human mind” left.


I would say that is a bit of a "long run".

We are not exactly talking about an experiment picked up by a young person and an attempt with questionable results. This is after decades of standard meditation followed by a spontaneous self-arising which is stable.

I hesitate to say "final state", I think what we can get is more like a "necessary condition" as in something that is "the one root of all these tantras". It "is" a final state if we perhaps call it Samadhi, but those samadhis are infinitely increasing. Or if we think in bodily terms, it "is" the Avadhut, except this keeps getting more and more subtle.

The following paragraph sounded to me like a fairly accurate tantric translation:

"That state happens spontaneously( or in some cases by “cutting off” the last rope of attachment) after the energies associated with grasping for particular phenomena -in this human realm- names and forms- are exhausted.
It may take long to any practitioner, no matter how they practice and once they start experiencing “cessation” of the outgoing energy and formations before we arrive “there”.

In that state of matters, wisdom takes over “practice” and life may look as ordinary to onlookers as their own because there’s nothing “longer in it” to work out."

It is accurate because it says Grasping at Name and Form, which are the same as the Skandhas, Name or Nama meaning all the skandhas that are mental, and Form meaning Rupa Skandha, which "isn't" the senses, so much as it is a "mental container" using them. And so yes, you get "variable length of time" for a practitioner to totally stop Grasping.

There may be different interpretations of "practice", like how Kagyu Ngondro might be different from that of Nyingma, however the way I at least mean it is also in conjunction with states of mind and alterations to the subtle body. So for example you might do the same Ngondro, but then one person might practice Removal of Fear, another something more related to Dream Yoga, another simply watches the drift of the thought process, and so on.

Speaking of the end of the human mind, or a non-human condition, is I suppose agreeably close to the cessation of skandhas, although the teaching of two additional skandhas makes it resemble Asta Vijnana or Eight Consciousnesses a bit more, since both add a sixth or Mental Mind and seventh or Very Subtle Mind, which each have their own manner of Grasping.

The point about Buddha not being an avatar, and not being a deva, is that he was human and had the skandhas, and so he is speaking much more to the experience of removing them, is considered more reliable than a heavenly denizen who can tell you "there is" a transcendent state, without knowing much about how to deal with you as a human, as Shariputra and the others were unable to.

Vasubandhu says only an Arhat experiences the ninth or Nirodha Samapatti or Cessation without Awareness. Would this not be about the same as Deep Sleep?

The way I have experienced Nirodha is without any mental activity by temporarily suppressing the skandhas. There was still awareness, but, without any duality.

The reason to Emerge in Reverse Order is to be able to move this state or condition into ordinary waking consciousness. That is perhaps more difficult than entering it. Buddha has no mind, or no human mind, or does not think, because he manifested Maha Sambhoga Kaya, all skandhas were permanently gone, and he is unwavering.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Further to the shaking aspect of profundity:

In those moments, and there have been many over the years, dozens, I have not been concerned about my health at all. Even though my heart must surely have been racing and my blood pressure soaring that was so far removed from the pertinence of the experience as to have been unremarkable.

What I did think was, how can I get closer to it and merge with this presence, immediately followed by, this could end me - and all the while in total bliss.

Looking back and adding logical analysis, presuming for the moment that such a thing has any human logic to it at all, it seemed like a flashing and flickering between what I think I am and what I really AM. Yet the one excludes the other. And so I have described this as a sort of metaphysical quantum tunneling, where the point of attention dissolves in one aspect and reconstitutes in another - crossing time and space without a temporal or spatial interval.

And this non-interval is the closest we can come to our essence without total dissolution.

When we become aware of this frequency we naturally seek to resonate with it, it is true. Yet we are already in resonance because that is what bestows our reality. What actually happens is that we seek harmonic balance. We slide up the scale of harmonics as our point of attention narrows. But we cannot lock onto the higher harmonic without surrender.

The surrendering is the dissolution of self. Because the little self cannot hold a point of attention outside its purview by design, it must give up its self image, but to give up its self image is to no longer be the self. Then a paradox occurs, if it is no longer the self but is still aware then what was it before?

See how this paradox naturally turns the point of attention - to the self remembered - and how this mechanism returns the self to itself? Thus the flickering between realms and the corresponding shaking of the body...back and forth between the real and the imagined.

Truth, it could be said, shakes the lie right out of us - and scares and confuses us enough to pine for the known and the comfortable 'little me' again.

[Agape]

Old Student : “Then I’m lucky my teachers are not human”.

What a beautiful truthful statement Old Student. I can compliment.

My original teachers aren’t human either. Yet they taught me so much about everything.

But they set me on long journey back then to look for human teachers who could confirm the teachings, the knowledge, science of consciousness.
That’s some 30 years ago anyway ..and I was quite lucky to find them and studied with good few occasionally. They were and still are the most precious part of my memories of this realm.

But I always return and shift back to the original state and am happy to do my practice alone. This very human life is also a practice anyway,
with real goddesses walking around, dakas and dakinis , divinities clad in rags
some of whom are trying to step to the human world like us and share a message.



I walk along the line, the fence as if. As if it was for real. Or is it. One day we all return home.



This will most certainly make you laugh because it would not happen to you but after some cleaning of the house yesterday ( number 365) and another yoga stretch
I finally figured out that both my shoulder joints are slightly dislodged and were so
last year also and it hurts. Something to do with previous events and having to pull suitcases around heavier than I were.
I think I’m going to start fixing it


Om Ah Hum


😂

[Agape]

Shaberon: I may well choose my own terminology or skip my own terminology altogether describing the Path
since the Path and the State are/were firstly described by seers

before they were ever recorded or commented on by scholars.

And each such description of the states beyond human perception and worlds out there is unique because we aren’t exact photocopies of each other or original Adibuddha.

Whether you use many words or few, quote as many terms you wish, we speak of things and realms that are essentially beyond describable.

And we always find many new terms, in modern language, see the whole “new age movement”.
You may argue about the meaning of “new age” or that it isn’t legitimate term and prevent yourself from direct perception.
There is always an “old age” and “new age” at all times anyway and then there’s the “old-new temple” in town that was rebuilt about 100 times since it started.


So the mystery can’t be that very different or is it. And yes..it’s long way to go ..it seems before we fully mature from this human experience.
It’s when we are almost at the door we understand the most 😅


And then, “return to the original self” turns out to be very simple.

I’ve just been there many times and back.


And I’m completely free and foolish person otherwise but I’ve met young ones who made it too.

Speaking of the Profound.


In common respect , its meaning should not be offended. If an angry Buddhist attacks the profound with a stick and beats me up to ball - and this is on my record book of 2018 - I still don’t give up on the Profound.
Because the angry Buddhist won’t ever help me back on my feet
but the Profound does.



🙏👒

[Old Student]

I hesitate to say "final state", I think what we can get is more like a "necessary condition" as in something that is "the one root of all these tantras". It "is" a final state if we perhaps call it Samadhi, but those samadhis are infinitely increasing. Or if we think in bodily terms, it "is" the Avadhut, except this keeps getting more and more subtle.

There are multiple ways to interpret the "root of all these tantras".

I have a growing theory that the Avatamsaka Sutra was composed as sutra/tantra on one level for those who inhabited the vihara there, and the Book of Zambasta was composed maybe by the same ones as the day to day householder ritual texts. They were intended probably to be comprehensive for the time, and complement the one other text of such completeness at the time, the Prajnaparamita.

In terms of the other, I am moving towards quiet in the start of my shaking but not towards complete cessation. I am increasingly being made to start the shaking from a state of what I was calling humming shaking, I've described it before. I do notice since yesterday and this morning it was present at times when I was doing other things, that it is invisible, which is very weird, since sometimes it is so strong it sounds like rumbling low thunder. If I was asked to describe how it felt instead of how it sounds, it sounds like I am listening to each and every blood cell move through each and every blood vessel, so I will need to find out what is supposed to happen with the channels, or maybe this is them.


Would this not be about the same as Deep Sleep?

Deep sleep is not particularly deep on the consciousness scale. There is something one has to memorize for emergency medicine called the Glascow Coma Scale (GCS). Which has fully awake and oriented at 15 and unconscious at 3. Deep sleep would be not very far off of 15 since the person would arouse by shaking and be able to be lucid and talk and focus their eyes. By contrast, down near 3 is very lacking in control at all.

[Old Student]

The surrendering is the dissolution of self. Because the little self cannot hold a point of attention outside its purview by design, it must give up its self image, but to give up its self image is to no longer be the self. Then a paradox occurs, if it is no longer the self but is still aware then what was it before?

This is exactly my experience, there is a dissolution of self, and the thing that happens immediately before it is a feeling of surrendering. My experience differs a little from yours in that I shift form instead of shifting place as it seems you do, given your experience of tunneling. (the physicist in me doesn't want to call that quantum tunneling since that is what is done by electrons in your cellphone's memory, where I think you are trying to talk about something more like travel similar to sci-fi through a "wormhole").

[Old Student]

What a beautiful truthful statement Old Student. I can compliment.

My original teachers aren’t human either. Yet they taught me so much about everything.

But they set me on long journey back then to look for human teachers who could confirm the teachings, the knowledge, science of consciousness.
That’s some 30 years ago anyway ..and I was quite lucky to find them and studied with good few occasionally. They were and still are the most precious part of my memories of this realm.

But I always return and shift back to the original state and am happy to do my practice alone. This very human life is also a practice anyway,
with real goddesses walking around, dakas and dakinis , divinities clad in rags
some of whom are trying to step to the human world like us and share a message.

I wonder if that is a very human thing, to want to confirm from a human what one as been taught by one who isn't.

Reading biographies of the old masters, one gets the feeling they did it the other way around, no?

[Agape]

What a beautiful truthful statement Old Student. I can compliment.

My original teachers aren’t human either. Yet they taught me so much about everything.

But they set me on long journey back then to look for human teachers who could confirm the teachings, the knowledge, science of consciousness.
That’s some 30 years ago anyway ..and I was quite lucky to find them and studied with good few occasionally. They were and still are the most precious part of my memories of this realm.

But I always return and shift back to the original state and am happy to do my practice alone. This very human life is also a practice anyway,
with real goddesses walking around, dakas and dakinis , divinities clad in rags
some of whom are trying to step to the human world like us and share a message.

I wonder if that is a very human thing, to want to confirm from a human what one as been taught by one who isn't.

Reading biographies of the old masters, one gets the feeling they did it the other way around, no?


Yes it’s entirely human because no matter who we are we are brought up as human beings here.
And unless I could have successfully quit the human experience when I figured out I will never “fit in” exactly and while most other people tried to convince me that we all are here for reason
I’ve better tried to show that I’m worth the trouble and can philosophically conform, somewhere anyway.

I think, your sarcasm is also, entirely human there.



None of this defines me ( or anyone for that purpose). Old Masters had different path than most of us can embrace these days.

I try to stay with my wisdom when posting on public forum, which this is. There are countless agencies out there trying to collect private information on individuals and I’m not in favor of stripping myself or others naked in public or documenting my experiences on FB.

There’s nothing that Bill Ryan does not know about me already 😅

Even I don’t know of anyone who walked the same path I did though there are many ways other people walked and sometimes we happen to talk to each other.

Not sure what /or who are you mocking here based on the presumption of inherent ignorance ?



Meant in jest 🥳

[shaberon]

Whether you use many words or few, quote as many terms you wish, we speak of things and realms that are essentially beyond describable.

And we always find many new terms, in modern language, see the whole “new age movement”.
You may argue about the meaning of “new age” or that it isn’t legitimate term and prevent yourself from direct perception.


Yes, that is what the Mahamudra catechism says, it is a state beyond words.

Daringly, there are a few descriptions.

I am not fond of New Age. I could probably reasonably claim to have attempted to invest myself into the views and practices of a wide variety of things from the closest Christian church to Ekankar, and probably have spent more of my time sequestered in a once-important branch of New Age than in any type of Asiatic facility.

What would be the direct perception that breaks if I point out the differences in things?

I am guilty of working from a document that is a legendary survivor of genocide. It is not a "fragment" like attempting to practice Druidic or Celtic paganism, or reconstruct the Mysteries, or for instance the guy I tried to ask how or why he had converted Durga into Innana. Is there a Book of Innana out there along with an unbroken chain of succession? Not really. What I am looking at is, and does, you can pick some of it up in Seattle.

Having said that, I should probably follow it by saying my existence as an organic being has nothing to do with Dharma talk, and a gazillion times more to do with interfacing with human auras with something like an externalized version of Old Student's micro-fine muscle control. The slightest movement at every second is a form of, I wouldn't say language, but communication nevertheless.

At the same time it is also internal, in the sense of Vajradakini and the power of the heart and how it is like a smooth ghee flame instead of a resistive electrical bulb. There is something like a basal field emitted by the heart which operates at a relatively wide radius with any other hearts nearby. That is something like the prime communication, and if the aura and nerves are filled with junk, that is interference. The opposite of that is a black magician. All they have to do is stand there and peoples' throats tighten or their stomachs sink and the rest of the aura deteriorates from there. It is best not to get too close to them, let alone touch them.

Does that make sense? It doesn't matter what anyone says to me, I am going to weave the same Mahamudra on them regardless.

In very rare cases, there is nothing to send, like to the Dzogchen master. Or we met Pema Chodron, there was nothing new for me to push at her, either. Their auras were already beyond my ability to affect. Those are some of the few people I ever really thought I was in the same room with.

[shaberon]

Deep sleep is not particularly deep on the consciousness scale. There is something one has to memorize for emergency medicine called the Glascow Coma Scale (GCS). Which has fully awake and oriented at 15 and unconscious at 3. Deep sleep would be not very far off of 15 since the person would arouse by shaking and be able to be lucid and talk and focus their eyes. By contrast, down near 3 is very lacking in control at all.


Ah, well, when we get down to Coma level, that is something else. How "off" and "unwakeable" the body is. But for most personal experience, we would tend to say, I might be asleep and dreaming, or, I might be asleep and just out of it. So, for practical purposes, that is something pretty much anyone can identify with, dreamless sleep.

And this is just using the traditional definition of Fourfold Om as in Mandukya Upanishad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandukya_Upanishad):

In verses 3 to 6, the Mandukya Upanishad enumerates four states of consciousness: wakeful, dream, deep sleep and the state of ekatma (being one with Self, the oneness of Self).[4] These four are A + U + M + "without an element" respectively.

The fourth state is sometimes called Turiya. And again, this is pretty close to the Four Activities.

According to Nath,

Raja yoga, samadhi, unmani, manonmani, amaratva, laya, tatva, sunya, asunya, parama pada,
amanaska, advaita, niralamba, niranjana, jivanmukti, sahaja and turiya denote the same state of being.


And so the point is that Deep Sleep is similar to the Third Void, and the most mystical condition happens beyond that threshhold, in either the Raja Yoga or Buddhist portrayal.

The Voids occur naturally along with the sleep process; accessing them in meditation is perhaps like putting the body to sleep without affecting the consciousness.

In that case, waking up should be at least a bit like Emerging in Reverse Order. It is like descending through planes.

And so I talk about sinning against Vajradhara as soon as I wake up, and sinning against the others before long, more or less because I am usually awakened by physical things and thrust into material concerns.

My preference would be to feel a gossamer-like awareness that is not in the body, slowly enters it, pushes light through, and gradually manifests in a mandala-like manner.

One of the few things HPB told people to practice was to pronounce Om when they wake up.

Then if you slowly think about Sambhogakaya and Akanistha, and about the Families even if just using one name or syllable for each, you descend a plane. Then if you think about Nirmanakaya and the Ten Directions and Protection, you descend another plane. Then you would enter the body.

In my experience, when I was able to wake up like that, it characterized the whole day, carried momentum. If not, it is like telling Guru to buzz off, and reverting to an animal.

There are, of course, millions of ways you could get up quietly and tranquilly, but because it actually is Emergence, if you tie it together with the inner meaning of the sadhana like that, both strengthen each other.


Avatamsaka is definitely pivotal for the worlds-within-worlds picture. I am pretty sure it is built on the same Yogacara principles as Lankavatara and Lotus Sutras and is a trip through the Dharmadhatu and Kama Loka. Anyone who would sit around and read it must have thousands of consciously-aware sub-units in their aura.

It comes round in the Mahatma Letters. For years, I was confused about one term which looks, in the handwriting, like sahalo-khadalu which sounded Mesopotamian or something, but if you scrutinize it, you come out with Saha Loka Dhatu which would be specifically meaningful here, and usually translated as Chiliocosm.

At one point he mentions the Sutra, although I am not sure if it is correct since the name may have been from the Lankavatara. He was justifying the seven-fold scale:

And thus are misinterpreted and mistranslated nearly all our Sutras; yet even under that confused jumble of doctrines and words, for one who knows even superficially the true doctrine, there is firm ground to stand upon. Thus, for instance in enumerating the seven lokas of the "Kama-Loka" the Avatamsaka Sutra, gives as the seventh, the "Territory of Doubt." I will ask you to remember the name as we will have to speak of it hereafter. Every such "world" within the Sphere of Effects has a Tathagata, or "Dhyan Chohan" -- to protect and watch over, not to interfere with it."

Even if that name is used, it does not apply to the standard scheme of the lokas.


Since one of the character traits of Vajra Rosary is a tantric application of the Moods, I took another look at Picuva Marici, and it would appear her "strange" name is possibly just clipped out of the following word:

picuvāleśasaṃlekhād yat puṇyaṃ samupārjitam /

Samlekha would have the meaning of austerity or abstinence in Prajnaparamita Sutra, but I cannot figure out the middle part.

My guess is still that it is based on the presence of "Picu", which would be familiar to anyone who has seen Prajnavardhani mantra. That is because this Marici has no mantra whatsoever, but appears to be telling you to use that one:

stambhayan kāyavākcittam āmantrya picuvāṃ japet /


What that does is Paralyze (Stambha) Body, Voice, and Mind.

The word or name is a puzzle to scholars, artists do not paint her blue face forwards, Picu is abundant with meaning if it refers to Prajnavardhani, and the faces are more than looks if they are in accordance with Vajra Rosary.

Stambhaya is relatively common in mantras, but this is the only place it is used this way.

[Old Student]

I think, your sarcasm is also, entirely human there.

There was none. I was thinking about what you said, and thought how I do that. I have plenty of confirmation from the Dakinis, and yet I go to humans, to ask, "Have you ever heard of this?"


Not sure what /or who are you mocking here based on the presumption of inherent ignorance ?

No one. The presumption of inherent ignorance is universal, we all are told, time and again that we have Buddha nature, but none of us believes we will ever get there, even after being told there's no where we need to get.


None of this defines me ( or anyone for that purpose). Old Masters had different path than most of us can embrace these days.

Why is that? I'm not saying this facetiously or sarcastically. Why does everyone in this age believe we can never be or understand what was understood a thousand years ago? Did we fall off some genetic cliff? The passage of the age, in Vimalaprabha is a documentable thing in archaeological and written history, it is what I referred to as the destruction of the Buddhist World 1003 to 1225 or so, and then a rerun in the 1400's. What is it we think we cannot do?


I try to stay with my wisdom when posting on public forum, which this is. There are countless agencies out there trying to collect private information on individuals and I’m not in favor of stripping myself or others naked in public or documenting my experiences on FB.

I do not have that option, although I am not nor have I ever been on FB.

[Old Student]

And so the point is that Deep Sleep is similar to the Third Void, and the most mystical condition happens beyond that threshhold, in either the Raja Yoga or Buddhist portrayal.

The Voids occur naturally along with the sleep process; accessing them in meditation is perhaps like putting the body to sleep without affecting the consciousness.

In that case, waking up should be at least a bit like Emerging in Reverse Order. It is like descending through planes.

And so I talk about sinning against Vajradhara as soon as I wake up, and sinning against the others before long, more or less because I am usually awakened by physical things and thrust into material concerns.

My preference would be to feel a gossamer-like awareness that is not in the body, slowly enters it, pushes light through, and gradually manifests in a mandala-like manner.

This I can more closely understand. I originally did shaking from my standing, or from just sitting in a chair. That was when I was doing "therapeutic" shaking, meaning that I did it to fix or repair injuries and aches and pains. I learned that it was more effective if I entered the shaking state from sleep (waking into it) and started doing it at night. It was shortly after that that the Dakinis arrived.

What makes it easier to do that way is that there is some kind of link between my body and mind that seems different than when I am sitting awake.


Thus, for instance in enumerating the seven lokas of the "Kama-Loka" the Avatamsaka Sutra, gives as the seventh, the "Territory of Doubt." I will ask you to remember the name as we will have to speak of it hereafter. Every such "world" within the Sphere of Effects has a Tathagata, or "Dhyan Chohan" -- to protect and watch over, not to interfere with it."

This is the same Kama-Loka as before?

[shaberon]

This is the same Kama-Loka as before?

Yes.

I honestly believe too much talk about higher planes and tenth or twelfth dimensions is misleading, because, for just about anyone who is not an Arhat, Kama Loka is probably the most metaphysically-poignant subject.

In many classifications it is described as having six planes, however, in Buddhism, it has a seventh, which is the Akanistha or Pure Lands.

Becoming fused to the seventh plane is equivalent in terms of practice to developing the Sambhoga Kaya.

This consists of the Sister class of deities, which are "subterranean", having a dual meaning. In one sense, it is none other than demons in the descending bowels of the hot hells interior to the earth. At the same time, "subterranean" also means "under the surface of the body", so i. e. the Chakras, Channels, and Sacred Sites and their yoginis.

When the Father applies Method properly, the Sisters produce Bliss.

Also the Yaksha kindgom applies here. It is either effectively a demon, or one's life force and wisdom, simply depending on who is in control.

Hence all the "conversion" mythology. It is fine if something was a demon. When we have the story of Vajrapani and Ghasmari conquering Maheshvara and so forth, it is irrelevant to us that they did it, they don't need any help. What is relevant is that in the mind and aura we imitate whatever it is that they did.

The gates of Kama Loka are the same way. The Four Kings are not Wisdom Beings, they are Oath-bound Wrathful Ghosts, and they are still dangerous.

The second plane is Indra Heaven or Heaven of the Thirty-three, also the residence of Viswakarman. This is the last plane that has anything to do with the physical world.

And so if you pass that point, living or dead, and you have Karmic Wind, then it will sweep you into the objective reflection or the underworld called Talas. It would be similar to a dream where you are not in control and are being pushed around. You will magnetize either towards the bottom, which is like a slow roast, or, if you are incredibly sinful, you will, in a sense, rise to the Akanistha and get kicked into its evil twin, which is so hot that it instantly vaporizes you, like the planet's molten core. So to speak, the "evil higher" is actually lower, and there is only so far it can go. If you deserve punishment, it works a little differently, the hot hells are for the typical person who was not that powerful in evil causes or evil institutions.

It is similar to what the Book of the Dead says, the main difference being that is a symbolic meditation, and so for example death is not literally a forty-nine day journey for everybody. The subjective time passed could seem anywhere from an instant to eternity. The actual time elapsed is often over a thousand years before reincarnating.

Without a body, what could we possibly be Grasping at...some kind of kama rupa...which is not even stable, so it cannot be Absolute, so we lose every time.

The Element or Realm consisting of kama rupas may simply be called Kama Dhatu, which is frequently referred to as Suffering.

Kama Dhatu Ishvari is Lakshmi, mainly in her dark aspect, which means it would relate to Deep Sleep and Nidra or Urmila.

Varnani must thereby be an acolyte of hers.

Sita is Urmila's sister, and nothing may say they are the two branch nerves or Vairocani and Varnani, but there is at least a little similarity. Nepalese Buddhism has no trouble accepting Sita as a Vasudhara.

And so when I look at the disciples in Avatamsaka Sutra, then there must be a difference between them and the Hearers who are able to watch Buddha's magical manifestation, and there could be all sorts of details, but the main factor appears to be Karuna. And this is Avalokiteshvara.

He proved you could get people out of hell, but not stop them from going there.

I personally feel a challenge or mission similar to that. If you can get even one person to change their mind about going to hell, then, you did a Karuna in this life.

That sounds semi-easy but of course, the truth is not in any of the words, it is in their mind and aura, which they are probably ignorant and helpless in regard to. That is the Anatta doctrine. In the Pali it says "beings are not Nath", are helpless especially about matters of rebirth, whereas Buddha is Nath or is helpful, not because he is going to fix anything for you, but to give you the right encouragement and guidance so you do it yourself.

As for the metaphysical difference between a spiritual path and a physiologically-similar path which is not necessarily spiritual, here, HPB is using the term Tantrika not...in its tantric sense, but a bit more in the general public low opinion of it, but she is really pointing out why there is a debased tantra, or, why a system of five elements that occultly begins in the Muladhara is not at all the same thing as the system that adds spiritual principles:

The science of the five breaths––the moist, the fiery, the airy, etc., etc.––has a twofold significance and two applications. By the Tântrikas it is accepted literally, as relating to the regulation of the vital, lung breath, but by the ancient Râja-Yogis as referring to the mental or “will” breath, which alone leads to the highest clairvoyant powers, to the function of the Third Eye and the acquisition of the true Râja-Yoga occult powers. The difference between the two is enormous. The former, as shown, use the five lower Tattvas; the latter begin by using the three higher alone––for mental and will development––and the rest only when they have completely mastered the three; hence, they use only one (Âkâsa Tattva) out of the Tântric five. As well said in the above stated work, “Tattvas are the modifications of Svara.” Now, the Svara is the root of all sound, the substratum of the Pythagorean music of the spheres, Svara being that which is beyond spirit, in the modern acceptation of the word––the spirit of the spirit, or as very properly translated, the “current of the life wave,” the emanation of the One Life. The Great Breath spoken of in Volume I of The Secret Doctrine is ÂTMAN, the etymology of which is “eternal motion.” Now, while the ascetic-chela of our school follows carefully, for his mental development, the process of the evolution of the Universe, that is, proceeds from universals to particulars, the Hatha-Yogi reverses the conditions and begins by sitting for the suppression of his (vital) breath. And if, as Hindu philosophy teaches, at the beginning of cosmic evolution, “Svara threw itself into the form of Âkâsa,” and thence successively into the forms of Vâyu (air), Agni (fire), Âpas (water), and Prithivî (solid matter),* then it stands to reason that we have to begin by the higher supersensuous Tattvas. The Râja-Yogi does not descend on the planes of substance beyond Sûkshma (subtle matter); while the Hatha-Yogi develops and uses his powers only on the material plane. A good proof of this is found in the fact that the Tântrika locates the three “Nâdis,” (Sushumna, Idâ, and Pingala) in the medulla oblongata, the central line of which he calls Sushumna, and the right and left divisions, Pingala and Idâ––and also the heart, to the divisions of which he applies the same names. The Trans-Himâlayan school, of the ancient Indian Râja-Yogis, with which the modern Yogis of India have little to do, locates Sushumna, the chief seat of these three Nâdis, in the central tube of the spinal cord, and Idâ and Pingala on its left and right sides. Sushumna is the Brahmadanda. It is that tube (of the two along the spinal cord) of the use of which physiology knows no more than it does of the spleen and the pineal gland. Idâ and Pingala are simply the sharp and flat of that Fa (of human nature), the keynote and the middle key in the scale of the septenary harmony of the principles––which, when struck in a proper way, awakens the sentries on both sides, the spiritual Manas and the physical Kâma, and subdues the lower through the higher. But this effect has to be produced by exercise of will-power, not through the scientific or trained suppression of the breath. Take a transverse section of the spinal cord, and you will find that the shaded parts show sections across the tube, the one side of which tube transmits the volitional orders, and the other a life current of Jîva––not of Prâna, sent down to animate the lower extremities of man––during what is called Samâdhi and like states.

He who has studied both systems, the Hatha and Râja-Yoga, finds an enormous difference between the two: one is purely psycho-physiological, the other purely psycho-spiritual. The Tântrists do not seem to go higher than the six visible and known plexuses, with each of which they connect the Tattvas; and the great stress they lay on the chief of these, the Mûladhâra Chakra (the sacral plexus), shows the material and selfish bent of their efforts towards the acquisition of powers. Their five Breaths and five Tattvas are chiefly concerned with the prostatic, epigastric, cardiac, and laryngeal plexuses. Almost ignoring the Agneya, they are positively ignorant of the synthesizing pharyngeal plexus. But with the followers of the old school it is different. We begin with the mastery of that organ which is situated at the base of the brain, in the pharynx, and called by Western anatomists the Pituitary Body. In the series of the objective cranial organs, corresponding to the subjective Tattvic principles, it stands to the “Third Eye” (Pineal Gland) as Manas stands to Buddhi; the arousing and awakening of the Third Eye must be performed by that vascular organ, that insignificant little body, of which, once again, physiology knows nothing at all. The one is the Energizer of WILL, the other that of Clairvoyant Perception.

She then uses the symbol of a Pentagram inscribed in a Hexagram, or the *use* of five-fold form *by* the spiritually-attuned Manas. She is not that great of a Buddhist explainer, but actually is pretty good in showing mostly equivalent things in Puranic terms. With the Three Natures she is good.

Varuni is the original driver of the tantric process, she is an infusion of Akash. It, however, does not "start" in the Ajna, unless you ignore the beginning of it until, for instance, in Vajra Rosary, it reaches that point. You could perhaps argue that someone in Generation Stage has not "started". The way HPB uses the term "Chela" certainly seems to apply to someone who not only is in Completion Stage but is competent in at least some of the Six Dharmas.

The main difference I think between Kama and Bliss is the factor of Grasping. If you relax the Grasping and start acting out of Karuna, you will have fewer problems in Kama Loka or "that which is Grasped".


In the case of things that are physically therapeutic, it is all news and information to me. Like H. H. Dalai Lama says, he has never been depressed, and that makes him sad since he does not think he really understands what happens to someone who is depressed. I understand psychological problems quite well, and, I have no real recognition of physical discomfort, since my body will naturally push itself into a very good feeling. It is like I am ignorant about why this might not happen for everyone automatically.

And so if you "opened" something based around the hypnagogic or cusp-of-falling-asleep, that makes sense...once you got the hang of it, then it perhaps "mobilized" to work at other times or for reasons other than discomfort?

[shaberon]

I hesitate to say "final state", I think what we can get is more like a "necessary condition" as in something that is "the one root of all these tantras". It "is" a final state if we perhaps call it Samadhi, but those samadhis are infinitely increasing. Or if we think in bodily terms, it "is" the Avadhut, except this keeps getting more and more subtle.

There are multiple ways to interpret the "root of all these tantras".


Here I misspoke slightly. It should have been "root of all these sadhanas". I was getting at what Mipham said:

"The prayer in seven lines is root of all these sadhanas.

Within the Ground, these lines denote
The seven kinds of consciousness;

Upon the Path, they represent
The seven branches of enlightenment;

And when the Fruit is won, they are perfected
As the seven sacred riches of the ultimate."


He had in mind a common daily Nyingma verse, but, it is also the case that Guru Yoga includes a Seven Limb Prayer, which could also be seven visible offerings, less the "invisible sound or music" offering. It is usually based in confession and asking the Buddhas to appear and remain in the realm of sentient beings.

Mipham is part of Rime' which means it is non-sectarian, so the Pith of what it is saying applies to all sadhanas.

"Ground" is body-and-mind-as-they-are, and so by saying seven consciousnesses, it is like the Asta Vijnana except saying the eighth is either not in man, or it represents a future state, and so this has for the apex, the Klista Manas or Addicted Mind, which as we see, is specifically focused, purified, and revealed by Vajradhara and Vajrayogini. And so any type of Seven Limb Offering may be understood on a verse-by-verse basis as the Ayatanas plus Klista Manas, or the Fives Senses, plus sixth sense of mind, plus a hidden sense of subtle mind.

By "Path", he does not just mean the stages or degrees of the Path, but, just as the senses and minds are simultaneously present and continuous, the Seven Jewels are simultaneously present and continuous. Here, we might say the same for Seven Paramitas, even if Mipham does not explicitly state this, the meaning is intended to be adjunct.

The Path or Seven Jewels are not Enlightenment, they are what makes it possible. Their deified form is from Seven Syllable Vajradaka:

Smrti is Sri Heruka, Dharma Pravicaya is Heruki, Virya is Vajrabhairavi, Priti is Ghoracandi, Prasrabdhi is Vajrabhaskari (Light Maker), Samadhi is Vajraraudri, Upeksa is Vajradakini.

These are not the Six Yogas, but it does include Smrti and Samadhi, which are part of them, or really, the culmination of them. So all the adjunct and parallel meanings are, of course, required, to make these powers work.


As Fruit, the motivation is to make Complete Manifest Buddha. This means to perform Samadhi at par with the Tathagatas which means equal to All Buddhas. It manifests the Absolute:

enlightened body
enlightened speech
enlightened mind
enlightened qualities
enlightened activity
dharmadhatu
primordial wisdom (Jnana or Yeshe)

Those seven are the normal order of the Families, however, they are essentially the same as the Seven Vajra Mysteries from RGV.

If the Body-less practice, or Sky, or Void, is well-known prior to Buddhism, then it is not much different from the Sutra level of Sunyata. There has to be this type of sunyata established to proceed. Prajna is wisdom of emptiness. Vajrasattva is Prajna-Upaya, so, if there is no prajna, he is still in a basic purifying mode and hasn't really started to tick. If we pick up the Ngondro, it generally begins with Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra and Vajrasattva. And so the sunyata rinses the mind and produces a change in being that is considered essential. This came out in written form at least as early as ca. year 75 and for most purposes was the most advanced teaching for centuries.

The Final Turning of the Wheel of Dharma is Womb of Compassion, Garbhadhatu, or Tathagatagarbha. This states that Buddha Nature is inherently potential in all beings. And this is chiefly compiled into Ratna Gotra Vibhaga, or RGV, ca. 300-400, also called Uttaratantra.

Ratnamati was said to be a major proponent of this doctrine ca. 500, and became a teacher to Nagarjuna, another well-known proponent being Sthiramati.

This is represented in the brief Lion's Roar Sutra of Queen Srimala Devi (http://buddhasutra.com/files/lions_roar_0f_queen_srimala_sutra.htm) whose first chapter is Removing Doubt, and the same continues in the guise of Lion's Roar Samadhi and can be seen in Avatamsaka and Lankavatara Sutras, or on Simhanada deities.

It is like Mipham gave Three Jewels utilizing the system of Seven, or has shown the main way that Seven works for non-Buddhas as Grounds, Path, and Fruit. That is how I am able to see it as the core of all of the doctrines and explanations, like a "container". It does not seem to contradict Vajra Rosary, but resembles it. In practice, of course, the Sixth or Vajrasattva is the main "developmental unit", which is why Dakini Jala or a Six Family Wheel is the main technique, and we usually look at the seventh as almost unreachable, which is why the Seven Syllable deity is that of Completion Stage. That is a bit like HPB saying a Chela will activate his sixth and seventh tattvas before you get into the comprehensive mandalas like Kalachakra, Manjughosha, or Dakarnava. In that case, she makes sense with respect to Buddhism.

Aeon (https://aeon.co/essays/the-logic-of-buddhist-philosophy-goes-beyond-simple-truth) published an essay which does a decent job at comparing Catuskoti to western math and logic and comes to the conclusion that Buddhism has found a way to talk about the Ineffable.

[Old Student]

This consists of the Sister class of deities, which are "subterranean", having a dual meaning. In one sense, it is none other than demons in the descending bowels of the hot hells interior to the earth. At the same time, "subterranean" also means "under the surface of the body", so i. e. the Chakras, Channels, and Sacred Sites and their yoginis.

In the flitting, and I haven't figure this out or been told anything about it, I am the silver skinned dakini if it happens immediately, if it delays for some reason, I become ashes and fierce. Don't really know what that all means but I do see how they can be a Sister class.


And so when I look at the disciples in Avatamsaka Sutra, then there must be a difference between them and the Hearers who are able to watch Buddha's magical manifestation, and there could be all sorts of details, but the main factor appears to be Karuna. And this is Avalokiteshvara.

Which has a complex relationship to Upaya Paramita? There has to be a reason why both are called compassion. And are distinguished yet again from something like Dana Paramita.


We begin with the mastery of that organ which is situated at the base of the brain, in the pharynx, and called by Western anatomists the Pituitary Body. In the series of the objective cranial organs, corresponding to the subjective Tattvic principles, it stands to the “Third Eye” (Pineal Gland) as Manas stands to Buddhi; the arousing and awakening of the Third Eye must be performed by that vascular organ, that insignificant little body, of which, once again, physiology knows nothing at all. The one is the Energizer of WILL, the other that of Clairvoyant Perception.

I think nowadays, we do know what those other branches against the spine do, and we do know what the pituitary gland does. Nevertheless, there is no stopping them from doing other things than what has been teased out by closed loop neuroscience.


The main difference I think between Kama and Bliss is the factor of Grasping. If you relax the Grasping and start acting out of Karuna, you will have fewer problems in Kama Loka or "that which is Grasped".

I am a little lost on Kama versus Bliss in my shaking, unless Kama would be when the bliss was not acting like energy, like in a downward flow that needs to be redirected. On the other hand, I'm also a little at a loss on the whole skillful means thing that is going on, and how it is supposed to play out.


In the case of things that are physically therapeutic, it is all news and information to me. Like H. H. Dalai Lama says, he has never been depressed, and that makes him sad since he does not think he really understands what happens to someone who is depressed. I understand psychological problems quite well, and, I have no real recognition of physical discomfort, since my body will naturally push itself into a very good feeling. It is like I am ignorant about why this might not happen for everyone automatically.

Some of it is rudimentary -- this shoulder is aching from, say, pulling out weeds that were too much force and should have been attacked with a trowel, or fingers that are kind of cramped from too much practicing piano, and that is just sort of burrowing into the joint or muscle with, I guess, will, and moving things around and shaking them until the cramp or strain is gone away. Others, injury or, say migraines, are more complicated. A migraine is actually a neurological event that becomes a pain event, so I'm not really sure what the physical mechanism is there, but it requires a shaking in which I make my head come apart and more, so not all physical in its perception (It works well to peel my scalp away from my skull and shake them in different directions and along different planes until I find the center of the migraine and sort of dissolve it).


And so if you "opened" something based around the hypnagogic or cusp-of-falling-asleep, that makes sense...once you got the hang of it, then it perhaps "mobilized" to work at other times or for reasons other than discomfort?

It would not be at all hard, but there are reasons why it is easier and better to do at night on waking from sleep. What the hypnagogic (or to be totally accurate, hypnopompic because it is waking) state provides is an easy place where I have listening (in the Taiji sense) but have no constructed goals -- If I did this during the day from waking, I would either have goals, or would have to meditate to not have them, and that latter would take some time. Time is the big thing, some of these shakings last for hours. It doesn't bother me if they happen at night since they are easily just as good as sleep for regenerating. So it saves quite a bit of time.

But yes, I could do it from waking and not be doing discomfort management. I do, actually, sometimes during my standing, or sometimes in the shower. The latter is tricky because I could lose my footing, especially if any of the kriya happened.

[shaberon]

And so when I look at the disciples in Avatamsaka Sutra, then there must be a difference between them and the Hearers who are able to watch Buddha's magical manifestation, and there could be all sorts of details, but the main factor appears to be Karuna. And this is Avalokiteshvara.

Which has a complex relationship to Upaya Paramita? There has to be a reason why both are called compassion. And are distinguished yet again from something like Dana Paramita.


I am not sure it is all that complex, it simply seems to be progressed, so on the one hand, there is Inner Bliss arising, and, on the other, sentient beings are being benefitted by one's presence. The prophecy for Queen Srimala's Buddhahood in 20,000 eons says:

Any sentient being born in that Buddha land will surpass the Paranirmitavasavartin deities in pleasure; glory of shape and color; splendor in the sense objects of form, sound, odor, smell, tangibles; and ecstasy of that sentient being in all enjoyments.

It is referring to the sixth plane of Kama Loka. If you surpass them, you have seen through their tricks and increased into the Akanistha. The state of sin in the sixth plane is receiving Objects of Desire Offered by Others. You don't have to bother to want whatever you want, since it is being given to you.

So although she was an instant Buddhist genius, in terms of doctrine and ability, the Karuna and roots of goodness necessary from there to Buddhahood take a very long time.

Upaya is a Paramita, which may have certain characteristics of its own, but it also has meaning as the scale of practice overall.


Upāya (उपाय, “means”) refers to the “process of various experiences through which the Sādhaka has to pass before the deity is realised and visualised”.—The Guhyasamāja (chapter 18) calls this process Upāya (means) which is recognised as of four kinds.

The four upāyas are:—

Sevā (worship),
Upasādhana,
Sādhana,
Mahāsādhana.

Sevā (worship) is again sub-divided into two, namely, Sāmānya (ordinary) and Uttama (excellent). Of these two, the Sāmānya-sevā consists of four Vajras: first, the conception of Śūnyatā; second, its transformation into the germ-syllable; third, its evolution in the form of a deity, and the fourth, the external representation of the deity.

In the Uttamasevā (excellent worship), Yoga with its six limbs should be employed. These six limbs are:

Pratyāhāra,
Dhyāna,
Prāṇāyāma,
Dhāraṇā,
Anusmṛti,
Samādhi.

Shiva tantra also has a similar Sadanga Yoga, but the order is shuffled. This one here as far as I know is identical in all sadhanas.

So the basic Seva is like the Kriya-Chara process where we can iterate an extremely specific process of how Buddhism defines Divinity. Higher Seva is intended to progress into Sadhana or spiritual practice which has degrees that are something like Near Approach, Realization, Actualization. This is its own "genre", which is not to say you can't weave at a loom, or fletch arrows, or pound sesame seeds while doing Mahamudra. It is specific to itself, for instance the way mandalas work.

The Six Limbs could almost be said to be three pairs.

My personality has always included in its daily routine, a type of cleansing of the senses. I have to shut everything off and relax. This is not "quite" ostensible spiritual practice, but it is the basic approach of the first "pair" which is like a "level" of practice.

Pratyahara is an ancient term for subjugation of the mind and senses. It means Control of Food, and is a withdrawal from sense-objects, and esoterically is like the Puranic description:

1a) Pratyāhāra (प्रत्याहार).—The stage of the dissolution or withdrawal of creation on the commencement of pralaya at the end of Kali; then the primordial spirit (avyakta) swallows that which is manifest (vyakta) waters swallow the gandha quality of the earth thus plunging the earth in waters; then the rasa quality of the waters gets merged in fire which spreads in all directions; the rūpa quality of fire is in turn eaten away by wind; this permeates all the ten directions, both above and below; the sparśa quality of wind is swallowed by ākāśā; the śabda (sound) quality of which is overwhelmed by bhūta and other gross elements; the great souls absorb these (mahā); seven Prakṛtis one covering the other.

And so it covers the spectrum from quiet time to, oh, say, universal annihilation--meditation is perhaps stronger than the first, and weaker than the second, but we could say Yoga begins around sense withdrawal and the deprivation of discursive mind.


In one sense, a Dhyana is a verse spoken during a Puja that describes a deity's form.

Dhyana is also a Paramita--the fifth, right before Prajna; it is "the Dhyanas" as from the Pali Canon; and in Guhyasamaja, Dhyāna (meditation) is explained as the conception of the five desired objects through the five Dhyāni Buddhas, namely, Vairocana, Ratnasambhava, Amitābha, Amoghasiddhi and Akṣobhya.

This Dhyāna is again subdivided into five kinds:

Vitarka (cogitation),
Vicāra (thinking),
Priti (pleasure),
Sukha (happiness),
Ekāgratā (concentration).

And so here you already have something that means meditation, that is suspiciously synonymous to samadhi. It includes the pre- or non-tantric "Concentrations". It adds what is eventually called Bliss.

So on its own, Pratyahara and Dhyana already constitute what could be called "a meditation session". Concentration could be towards any object, a tattva symbol such as a Kasina disk, or a Dharma subject, etc.

The next part however is different because it is Yoga and it is intended to manipulate the subtle body, starting with Pranayama, and then, Dharana is mostly the stability or non-decay of the condition induced by Pranayama.

At this point, is there such a thing as a Yoga deity, yes. Guru Yoga is like that. This is where the "system of Taras" or Sadhanamala deities shines.

This would be the phase heavily emphasized by Jnanapada, Anadagarbha, Bu-ston, Yogi Chen, and for example Traktung Rinpoche's Generation Phase (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5512bbfce4b09ee138551125/t/551465e7e4b040381076aae0/1427400167670/Generation+Phase+Transcription+Booklet.pdf) at over three hundred pages. They feel that a person with reasonable aptitude can "get" Kriya--Charya without too much trouble, and here, where it starts heating up a little bit, you need a lot more work, rather than the most difficult or presumably Completion Stage material.


Sadhana, or Deity or Ista Devata or Yidam Yoga, consists of:


Source: archive.org: The Indian Buddhist Iconography

1) Sādhana (साधन) refers to psychic exercises in the form of visualization and intense meditation.—One of the chief topics dealt with in Vajrayāna is the deity. These deities are a product of psychic exercises of the most subtle character, and are visualized by the worshipper in the course of intense meditation. These psychic exercises are called the Sādhanas. [...] The Tantrics who were the advocates of psychic culture, by persistent efforts through mental exercises, used to obtain super-normal powers which were known as Siddhis. Those who gained such Siddhis were called Siddhas, and the process through which they obtained Siddha is called Sādhana.

The Sādhana or the process prescribed for attaining the different Siddhis forms the bulk of the Tantric literature of both the Buddhists and the Hindus. [...] The Buddhists had a special literature called the Sādhanas and they were always written in Sanskrit by many of the well known Tantric authors and the Mahāsiddhas. This literature is now almost lost in original Sanskrit, but fortunately for us some collections of Sādhanas are still extant. These collections were given the names of Sādhanamālā and Sādhanasamuccaya. [...] The Sādhana in all cases is prescribed for the realisation of some God or Goddess according to a fixed procedure laid therein.

2) Sādhana (साधन) refers to the third of the four upāyas (“means”) through which the Sādhaka has to pass before the deity is realised and visualised according to the Guhyasamāja chapter 18.

Source: Shambala Publications: Tibetan Buddhism

Sādhana Skt.; derived from sādh, “to arrive at the goal” and meaning roughly “means to completion or perfection.” In Vajrayāna Buddhism, a term for a particular type of liturgi­cal text and the meditation practices presented in it. Sādhana texts describe in a detailed fash­ion deities to be experienced as spiritual reali­ties and the entire process from graphic visual­ization of them to dissolving them into formless meditation. Performing this type of religious practice, which is central to Tibetan Buddhism, requires empowerment and consecration by the master for practice connected with the particular deity involved. Part of this is trans­mission of the mantra associated with the deity.

Source: academia.edu: A Collection of Tantric Ritual Texts

Sādhana (साधन) is a genre of Tantric literature describing the stages of the yogic practices of various Tantric deities to be visualized and invoked to perform the divine actions.

General definition (in Buddhism)

Source: McGill University: He dances, she shakes: The possessed mood of nonduality in Buddhist tantric sex

A sādhana literally translates as a “means of attainment” and is the way that tantric practitioners can become their chosen deities (istadevata). Sādhanas provide step-by-step guidelines to imagine oneself as a buddha, inside and out, at both a visual and aesthetic level. Instructions are given in both prose and poetic form, and the poems are often attributed to highly realized authors and establish the ritual and aesthetic mood through reiterating the goals of practice.

So all that also "is" Upaya, of the kind which begets Samadhi, which itself is an evolute of Dhyana, which is close to saying that development of Dhyana Paramita begets Prajna Paramita.

In simple terms, one could perhaps say the Dhyana is Sutra level, and Pranayama is Tapas which is Tantra level, so the indicated class of Samadhi of Six Limb Yoga must be employing tantric development.

[Old Student]

It is referring to the sixth plane of Kama Loka. If you surpass them, you have seen through their tricks and increased into the Akanistha. The state of sin in the sixth plane is receiving Objects of Desire Offered by Others. You don't have to bother to want whatever you want, since it is being given to you.

I spent nearly three nights at "the fulcrum", the fattened intersection of spaces of dissolve, decay, and decompose, the three jewels, which maybe apropos as Objects of Desire Offered by Others. The night before last, I spent hours there, and became quite -- not sure which word to choose -- either "proficient" or "comfortable" or "stagnant" waiting at no being for hours on end, with certain parts of this triumvirate accessible all day long and rumblings of others constantly working in the background. At the end of the night before last, I was roundly chewed out for that sense of accomplishment, and for the ritual attachment it was bringing.

So last night, the sum total of the infinities there was relegated to its domain, and I was, by means of an extremely strenuous physical position and a lot of pushing and working from them, lit on "fire" from the base of the inside of my skull to the crown and then the crown consumed and straight/wavy lines -- hairs apparently -- filled that space to upwards above my head, shooting upwards. Afterward, it seemed logical to "understand" finally why so many are described as having hair that stands straight upward.

I'm mentioning this because it seems so interesting a coincidence that you are mentioning a trap by objects of desire given by others. Although I'm not sure a three-fold infinity is what they meant by such an object.


The Sādhana or the process prescribed for attaining the different Siddhis forms the bulk of the Tantric literature of both the Buddhists and the Hindus. [...] The Buddhists had a special literature called the Sādhanas and they were always written in Sanskrit by many of the well known Tantric authors and the Mahāsiddhas. This literature is now almost lost in original Sanskrit, but fortunately for us some collections of Sādhanas are still extant. These collections were given the names of Sādhanamālā and Sādhanasamuccaya. [...] The Sādhana in all cases is prescribed for the realisation of some God or Goddess according to a fixed procedure laid therein.

I think Alexandra David-Neel describes this as having to earn a living.


A sādhana literally translates as a “means of attainment” and is the way that tantric practitioners can become their chosen deities (istadevata). Sādhanas provide step-by-step guidelines to imagine oneself as a buddha, inside and out, at both a visual and aesthetic level. Instructions are given in both prose and poetic form, and the poems are often attributed to highly realized authors and establish the ritual and aesthetic mood through reiterating the goals of practice.

So all that also "is" Upaya, of the kind which begets Samadhi, which itself is an evolute of Dhyana, which is close to saying that development of Dhyana Paramita begets Prajna Paramita.

This is another place where the shaking is backwards from the meditation.

[shaberon]

So last night, the sum total of the infinities there was relegated to its domain, and I was, by means of an extremely strenuous physical position and a lot of pushing and working from them, lit on "fire" from the base of the inside of my skull to the crown and then the crown consumed and straight/wavy lines -- hairs apparently -- filled that space to upwards above my head, shooting upwards. Afterward, it seemed logical to "understand" finally why so many are described as having hair that stands straight upward.

I'm mentioning this because it seems so interesting a coincidence that you are mentioning a trap by objects of desire given by others. Although I'm not sure a three-fold infinity is what they meant by such an object.



Haha, no, that is not what they meant.

They meant I don't have to even think about liking apples since a steady stream of devotees bring me apples. It is lazy beyond lazy. In the fifth sub-plane, you have to think of the apple, and it appears. So these upper planes are like the ultimate in temptation.

I have to shed the appetite for apples, they are not needed in the subtle body, it is an attachment to an earthly experience.

The reverse of this is in the sadhanas as Offerings, i. e., we give away the best things we can come up with, to someone who does not need it.

By doing the Offerings, eventually the senses such as Taste are quelled, and I won't sit around in the subtle body getting hungry. Usually a person has to train in this a lot, and I guess it could only be called "significant progress" that would reveal any type of Jewel or Triple Jewel in the core of the head/throat which is a lot more powerful and interesting than mundane consciousness.

A desire to see or have this is not like an earthly desire, it is like calling Kurukulla "the one everyone wants", or that all beings' wishes are really Wishes for Enlightenment, and so on. It is really some kind of divine desire, that lacks Grasping, and lacks the collation of thoughtforms driven by Samsara Skandha.

Yes, shaking is a bit backwards from sadhana, although the Signs still sound accurate. This one is often called Flameswept Hair, or Ratna Ketu. If I followed the progression, most Vajrayoginis or Varahis do not have it, but Bharati does.

According to her, Big Hair should become accompanied by The Vessel, or i. e. descent of nectar back to the navel or dantian around where this whole thing started.

That of course sounds opposite to fire bursting through one's crown aperture.

This upwards energy can form the Vajra Danda, which is simply an extension of the Avadhut, and it can accumulate colorful mists and so forth.

When that thing is stable and able to connect with Higher Yoni Triangle, and the Vessel is full of Mercury, then, boom, you have attained Sahaja, which can reach the Para Sunya beyond the Triangle. Many schools lump sahaja in with samadhi and make everything about the same, but, in Buddhism, Sahaja has this extremely specific meaning.

It is all an advancement of non-dual Vajrasattva.

Vajrasattva progresses from Prajna--Upaya to Prajna--Karuna. Even from a Zen blog (https://www.zenrivertemple.org/tenkeidharmablog/2018/10/16/activating-karuna/), we can get close to the right idea:

Ideally speaking, Karuna is the natural expression of Prajna. In deep samadhi one can realize that there is no separation between self and other, and that this whole world is one single organic and vividly alive body. That enlightening insight (Prajna) comes with a total identification with all the different parts of this body – however unlikely some might seem to be! – and a great urge to take good care them (Karuna). We start to feel more responsible for everyone’s well-being.

It also expresses a few things as working like "manuals of Karuna", such as the Paramitas.This is always the case, plus, they have tantric interpretations, there is the whole Mahakarunika cycle, and Lotus Family seems particularly crucial for Speech Isolation, energy of the throat, and so forth, significant to the whole Pranayama and Sambhogakaya process.

For identification with unlikely parts of the body, the Tantras do have a complex Nyasa or system of placement of the Pithas, but, few of them are identical. One thing that gets my attention is the "repetition" of Khandaroha, since she is a Dakini of the Central Lotus, but, she is also always repeated around the lower centers and sometimes thought of as "the Bulb".

In the body, the lower Pithas (or those related to Evacuative Wind) are usually named for Pretapuri, "City of the Dead", said by Naro to be at the India--Nepal border; another being Himalaya; and Grhadeva.

Vajra Rosary is the most basic here and does not involve yoginis; it just says:

You know the Himalaya
As the crotch,
The sign [male or female organ]
As Grihadeva,
The rectum
As Pretapuri


With Varahi, Pretapurī is to be contemplated as situated in the reproductive organs, ruled by Cakravega and Mahabala.

Vajradaka Tantra associates Pretapuri with Patalavasini, "a woman living underground".

In the Abhidhānottarottaratantra there is the Ḍāka deity named Vajraḍāka standing in the center of the districts named Pretapurī (Pretādhivāsinī), Gṛhadevatā, Saurāṣṭra and Suvarṇadvīpa.

In Dakarnava, Pretapuri is one of the sixty-four channels in the Nirmana Chakra.

With Varahi, Himalaya is also in the genitals, but ruled by Khaganana and Virupaksha.

Himalaya is part of the Vak Chakra, associated with the Ḍākinī named Bhūcarī (‘a woman going on the ground’), according to the 9th-centruy Vajraḍākatantra.

According to the Vajraḍākavivṛti, the districts Himagiri (Himālaya), Kāñcī, Devīkoṭa and Rāmeśvara are associated with the family deity of Saṃcālinī; while in the Abhidhānottarottaratantra there is the Ḍāka deity named Padmaḍāka standing in the center of the districts named Kaliṅga, Kāñcī, Lampāka and Himālaya (Himagiri).

Both Varahi and Vajradaka seem to place minor Khandaroha in Grhadeva; the latter pairs her with Ratnavajra.

Our tantras have failed to say what the subtle body "is"; instead, they have similar systems of "what it does". The Six Yogas are always the same, but, the Pithas are not.

Most of them indicate two types of sexual chakras, one at the root, the other at the tip of the organ. The area is mainly associated with Patala Vasini or Bhucari, hence, subterranean and Sister class.

It would be correct to say this center is totally ignored at first, and, everything I have traced so far to the arising of Bharati has nothing to do with it.

Somewhere along the line, you do get Yoga deities who have a syllable at their Secret Place. So there is at least something that intervenes before a large twenty-four point Nyasa.

[Old Student]

Haha, no, that is not what they meant.

They meant I don't have to even think about liking apples since a steady stream of devotees bring me apples. It is lazy beyond lazy. In the fifth sub-plane, you have to think of the apple, and it appears. So these upper planes are like the ultimate in temptation.

I have to shed the appetite for apples, they are not needed in the subtle body, it is an attachment to an earthly experience.

This is indeed not the same thing, but the pull of proceeding no further and "resting on my accomplishments" because the scene before me was infinite was quite seductive, and I was chastised for spending an entire night there and "drifting towards routine".


Yes, shaking is a bit backwards from sadhana, although the Signs still sound accurate. This one is often called Flameswept Hair, or Ratna Ketu. If I followed the progression, most Vajrayoginis or Varahis do not have it, but Bharati does.

According to her, Big Hair should become accompanied by The Vessel, or i. e. descent of nectar back to the navel or dantian around where this whole thing started.

That of course sounds opposite to fire bursting through one's crown aperture.

This upwards energy can form the Vajra Danda, which is simply an extension of the Avadhut, and it can accumulate colorful mists and so forth.

All of this sounds accurate for what is happening, but the mists last night were like colorful mist-curtains and when they suddenly pulled back because I turned away from the fulcrum to protect my eyes, my whole body "dizzied" with a strong pulse of foreboding that pretty much shook me to the core. It was the same kind of dizziness/wind/pulse/foreboding as the death time but without the cold.


When that thing is stable and able to connect with...

not, I guess, yet.


Vajrasattva progresses from Prajna--Upaya to Prajna--Karuna. Even from a Zen blog, we can get close to the right idea:

Ideally speaking, Karuna is the natural expression of Prajna. In deep samadhi one can realize that there is no separation between self and other, and that this whole world is one single organic and vividly alive body. That enlightening insight (Prajna) comes with a total identification with all the different parts of this body – however unlikely some might seem to be! – and a great urge to take good care them (Karuna). We start to feel more responsible for everyone’s well-being.

I read the Zen blog, it is much closer to the Karuna --> Caritas type of Karuna/compassion. It is possible that what happened last night was in anticipation from having to do something of that form which was not going to be easy today. One of those "I'm going to have to make you suffer a little today so you won't suffer a lot later" days.


For identification with unlikely parts of the body, the Tantras do have a complex Nyasa or system of placement of the Pithas, but, few of them are identical. One thing that gets my attention is the "repetition" of Khandaroha, since she is a Dakini of the Central Lotus, but, she is also always repeated around the lower centers and sometimes thought of as "the Bulb".

In the body, the lower Pithas (or those related to Evacuative Wind) are usually named for Pretapuri, "City of the Dead", said by Naro to be at the India--Nepal border; another being Himalaya; and Grhadeva.

Vajra Rosary is the most basic here and does not involve yoginis; it just says:

You know the Himalaya
As the crotch,
The sign [male or female organ]
As Grihadeva,
The rectum
As Pretapuri


With Varahi, Pretapurī is to be contemplated as situated in the reproductive organs, ruled by Cakravega and Mahabala.

This is where things really feel backwards between shaking and these texts: This stuff was more of the 101 part of shaking, it is a late and completion stage in these texts. But some of the other things are things developed off of this in shaking.

[shaberon]

A couple more thoughts came up, somewhat repetitive, and partly because we cannot search for a post but only a thread.

It is rather intriguing that a Dakini would press "upaya" as a means of "flitting" through another being's consciousness or aura.

Many of us have probably thought about such things, like why doesn't Mandarava "flit" me, or why doesn't anyone do it, or how could I tell if they did.

At times in the past, I have thought someone did something like this, and all I can say is that it has usually seemed like an Ayurvedic adept possibly Hindu, or else a Medicine Buddha or Parnasabari follower. I don't know.

I do know that one of the few things Vajrasattva ever told me was that the Bagalamukhi weapon I used is about the same thing as a Kilaya.

The difference is that a Kilaya pegs something in place; so it functions like a prison.

The weapon I used was incredibly effective, but lacked any form of restraint.

Therefor I am in a time which has become highly defensive. I would be a poor target for flitting, because, if I sense something unbidden, I am likely to attack it, and if this goes through an edged weapon, it could be very damaging.

Until this is resolved, I am stuck between the options of an eventual worse conflict with what I call Suicide Demon, or, the transmutation of the host so they are no longer receptive.

On the other hand, I can definitely be "approached", i. e. if someone uses the signs or mantras I am familiar with, then of course I am going to relax and be reasonable.

And so if "Upaya--Flitting" is something I would have to call Personal Instruction, if we look at its more general application as Upaya Paramita, this, at least, gives a sense about what might be the difference between trying to get any recognition whatsoever from a being mired in samsara or mundane consciousness, versus someone who is a little more sensitive who might even retaliate unless you supply the "password".

It simultaneously speaks to me, in a slightly different way, about how to get someone to voluntarily re-organize their mind in order to banish a demon of this caliber. To me, it is simple, since the Dharma does that, but, I cannot just press it on anyone. They have to decide for themselves that there is, at least, a better alternative than living in an avalanche of psychic garbage, and they have to ask for it in some way, and then I can respond with either the Dharma itself, or, at least, its close approximation cloaked in everyday experiences.

If we have something to give, someone has to ask/invite/Hook us.



When we look at something like a "simultaneous fusion of systems", we have a way, for example, to ascribe the Paramitas to a Six Family Wheel.

In order to figure it out, you can, of course, start with a single element, can think of Three Families, or five, but it is perhaps desirable to manifest a basis of six to eight things at once.

We have already written it up for a system of Seven in a way that matches the traditional Paramitas up to Upaya:


Discipline.......Ground....................Paramit a...........Dharani

Citta.............Pramudita (Vajrasattva)...Dana........Ratnolka
Pariskara........Vimala (Vairocana)......Sila...........Usnisavijaya
Karma...........Prabhakari (Ratna)..........Ksanti.........Marici
Upapatthi.......Arcismati (Amitabha).......Virya.........Parnasabari
Rddhi............Sudurjaya (Akshobya).....Dhyana........Janguli
Adimukti..........Abhi-mukhi (Amoghasiddhi)..Prajna...Ananta-mukhi
Pranidhana...................Durangama............ .Upaya.............Cunda


Since we are incorporating Namasangiti, you could also add its unique "introductory" Paramita to obtain eight elements. The Sarvadurgati grouping seemed to make Pranidhana Paramita seventh, and so we adjusted that way--here, it is the Discipline associated with Upaya Paramita.

In most presentations, Prajna Paramita would be the highest given, which corresponds to the last of the normal Families. After this, Acala is a "divider", before the highest Paramitas are represented by Dakinis beginning with Lama. This makes them fumble out of order, whereas it is probably agreeable that Rupini would be last, that usually makes Dakini first.

We discussed Pranidhana, and here, it is a Discipline (inner), which at the next stage, becomes a Paramita (expressed). If called a Paramita, then, this must be Upaya as seen by others. Pranidhana Natha are the Agnishwattas, Formlessness, teaching of Venus--Human Guru. In Buddhism, Pranidhana also pertains to Vow (similar to Samvara). Vow is supposed to become represented by behavior (Samaya). Upholding Vow by manifesting it, therefor is also quite close to a "Discipline" of Pranidhana evolving to a "Perfection", a display of it.



In Avatamsaka Sutra, Upaya Paramita is the capacity to select and apply suitable teachings, practices, or methods in order to help others on the path to enlightenment, according to place, time, and individual circumstance, desha-kala-patra,

It, of course, also has to have an inner basis.

mudra & mantra are related to the paramita of skillful means (Skt. upāya kauśala pāramitā)

The tantric physiological stage is:

7. Meditative stabilization is the means for retaining the drops while engaged with the three mudrās, namely, the action mudrā, primordial wisdom mudrā, and the empty form mahā- mudrā.

[karma mudra, jnana mudra, mahamudra]

Namasangiti's goddesses who correspond with Upaya Paramita are:

The Discipline or Mastery is Pranidhana. The Ground or Bhumi is called Durangama, "Far Going". The dharani used is Cunda.

The goddesses in all Four Families have as their forms:

Upaya Paramita is green like the Priyangu flower and holds in her left hand the Vajra on a yellow lotus. Pranidhana Vasita is yellow in colour and holds in her left hand the blue lotus. Durangama is green like the sky and holds in her left hand the Visvavajra (double thunderbolt) on a Visvapadma (double conventional lotus). Cunda is white in colour and holds the rosary from which a Kamandalu [water pitcher] is suspended.

Here Cunda has been emanated in Amoghasiddhi Family and is using her rare Initiaion form with the Sacred Flask. And so if this is Yoga then it is likely intended to accomplish this first since her next Amoghasiddhi emanation is wrathful in union with Mahabala. Cunda Dharani Masters Pranidhana "Unceasing Devotion". In general application, the mantra is held to remove karmic seeds. Pranidhana also pertains to the Sacrifice Offering of Karmic Fruit or, i. e., fruit of one's actions are also burned by Agni to the deity, and this type of renunciation of the result of work is considered essential, usually, for that type of Red Aura on Cunda and Vajra Tara, letting go of everything I did is essential for the stability of Bodhisattva degree Wisdom.

Cunda's mantra is so simple and never grows, that it makes sense to show it as a small inner seed of Pranidhana, which seems to be happening here.

The teaching of Karuna is that it simultaneously develops Jnanagni or non-attachment.

When we look at groups of Paramitas, or higher levels of them, these are also related to the Three Natures:

Penetration of the Dharmadhatu is with the three subtle minds: first of which (incomparable) opened by the first Five Bhumis, second (unfathomable) by the Seventh, and the third (inconceivable) is in the irreversible bhumis eight and up.

Incomparable mind: First, joyful through giving (Pramudhita from dana); Second, purity through morality (Vimala from sila), Third, luminous through forbearance (Prabhakari from ksanti), Fourth, radiant through striving (Arcismati from virya), Fifth is mediation tthrough meditation (Sudurjaya from dhyana). Unfathomable mind: Sxth is Facing through insight (Abhimukhi through prajna), Seventh is Far-going through great means (Durangama through upaya-kausalya). Inconceivable mind: Eighth is Motionless through strength (Acala from bala), Ninth is good-minded through aspiration (Sudhamati from pranidhana), Tenth is cloud of doctrine through wisdom (Dharma-megha from jnana).



The very basic iterations of Vajrasattva winds up with a final goddess who is akin to the fifth and sixth planes of Kama Loka and Objects of Desire:

Yoga includes Atma Tattva and Deva Tattva from Kriya-Charya, followed by Mandala [Thirty-seven points of its own unique nature]. Together, Atma and Deva Tattvas make Tattva Devata, the first or reality god. The Six Gods of Kriya-Charya are intended as the Abhisambodhis plus Manifest Buddha. This is akin to increasing Vajrasattva from Purification to Prajna-Upaya.

In Yoga, Paramadya Tantra increases Vajrasattva from Prajna-Upaya to Mahasukha-Unwasted Vajra, or Bliss. This is due to mantra, the throat is Sambhoga chakra. Paramadya's goddesses are Four Activities in a Vajrasattva theme, having Ragavajra or Passion to please Vajrasattva's mind so he will not swerve from the thought of Enlightenment, Joyful Utterance Vajra Kili Kila arouses a pledge to remain attached to mahasukha-unwasted vajra, Vajrasmrti is unshattered by the poisons, Vajra Kameshvari, Queen of Desires, Objects Manifested by Vajrasattva. is Gnosis. This makes the hand symbol, five pronged vajra of Vajradhara.

And so if he incorporates Bliss, he must be operating more with Karuna, which happens to be more explained by Avalokiteshvara.

[shaberon]

the mists last night were like colorful mist-curtains and when they suddenly pulled back because I turned away from the fulcrum to protect my eyes, my whole body "dizzied" with a strong pulse of foreboding that pretty much shook me to the core. It was the same kind of dizziness/wind/pulse/foreboding as the death time but without the cold.


When that thing is stable and able to connect with...

not, I guess, yet.



So in the example where we allow Kurukulla the role of developing nectar, like a "loop" of the ascending or inbound forces through the Jewel with Indra Jala, reflecting as nectar which is able to ooze down through the throat...she has a beginning, she never really ends but participates in an ongoing alchemy. But primarily she has to do with the throat and head loop.

Then you have an "advanced" loop which is a little bigger, which in the example of the fiery nature uplifting the crown, it is in Jewel or Ratna Family, this is Vajradakini. As the Maha Sukha Chakra, it is the Four Dakinis. It is also the Usnisa class of deities such as Parasol. It is on a "bigger loop" which goes past the throat, descends past the heart, into the core. The Evacuative or Ratna Wind has reached up to the heart to meet it, and drawn it the rest of the way down. The combination of Ratna Family to the Buddha Family Usnisas sounds a lot like Kaya Vajra, that Jewel Family merges into Buddha Family.

In this kind of energy level, perhaps the difference is that if you follow the fiery uprising, you will wind up projected out of your body. I have never tried to follow it that way. That may happen if you do not disrupt the Skandhas. They are working something like a hot air balloon, and you are supposed to deflate them. When active, they operate on any and all planes.

Again, for me, yes, studying the Vajrayana sadhana structure starts a bit backwards. In simple terms, it was not a particularly nice dakini-guided non-dualization of the lower spheres, it was more like a similar Personal Instruction from Death. In my experience of Dissolutions, meaning Ego Death or direct destruction of the Skandhas into the Bardo or Voids, there is such a thing as Tathagatas, or Dhyani Buddhas, in a pale, faces-in-the-clouds kind of way. It seemed more like they were "just there", like monuments or something. I was intrigued by how Buddhism described them as Wisdoms. I did not understand that part.

Because most everything else in the world refers to Muladhara chakra as important for starting Yoga, I had already done things this way long before hearing of otherwise.

At the point when I found Inverted Stupa is when it "clicked", or I could see how Buddhism was using its own particular language that flowed into the experience of Four or more Joys, except it sounded like a huge upgrade to my bare-bones maneuvers in figuring out how, the mainly physiological aspect of it, works. Because I know it does, I am able to personally ascertain that if the inner meaning of "this" Vajradakini is followed through to this "Vessel" Bharati, then you do get something utterly different, which is what Buddhists call Sahaja. That is the one that can ascend and get the Voids to dissolve.

In the sadhana timing, you should be in your deity's Muttering. You have cast a Meru Mandala and so forth and you are Muttering your way into this condition, and the Sahaja is going to rise and try to touch the base of their Divine Stupa. And when it becomes necessary to arise as something, you are going to go Germ Syllable and Hand Symbol and so forth.

Being that the advanced scriptures tell me that the entire thing gets doubled into a cycle of Sixteen Joys is beyond my ability to express, but I hope to pursue it, someday.

If you miss, you might wind up in the realm of the Vidyadharas or Apsaras, but you could more easily wind up with Ghosts or something. The Cemetery Yoga Asta Vijnana is there to seal all those doors.

I understand a Horizontal plane I would call Horizon as situated basically through the ears and center of skull or head, approximately. And so if this is the Ground or Bhumi, it is displaying a type of Fixed Cross on its quadrants, with East being forwards, South is to the right, and so on.

If you have this quadration and can conceive of it conically triangulated into the crown aperture, you have the four petals or dakinis.

"The chakras" are in the head, with the ones of the body being reflections or emanations of it.

These head centers in a Sattvic condition suffused with Akash are able to enter a type of secret conversation with the corresponding caves in the heart.

That is why we are supposed to boil off the psychological Aggregates in the head, and descend.

It is a bit like one develops the Great Coronal Dome or Crown Protuberance and it is set on pause for a while, and the descent of bodhichitta is like drawing a bow. I think once you plant the conditions for that Fourth Joy or Sahaja, most of your complexity, balancing, and alignment issues are resolved, and it can pretty easily launch and flow beyond the body like an arrow.

I would say the Vajradakini-to-Bharati thing is probably large, possibly difficult, taking an indeterminate amount of time, whereas Sahaja is almost automatic, like a coccoon, and could be self-fulfilling in a matter of moments after it starts. At worst, we might say it is lacking in energy to go all the way.

[Old Student]

Many of us have probably thought about such things, like why doesn't Mandarava "flit" me, or why doesn't anyone do it, or how could I tell if they did.

At times in the past, I have thought someone did something like this, and all I can say is that it has usually seemed like an Ayurvedic adept possibly Hindu, or else a Medicine Buddha or Parnasabari follower. I don't know.

I do know that one of the few things Vajrasattva ever told me was that the Bagalamukhi weapon I used is about the same thing as a Kilaya.

The difference is that a Kilaya pegs something in place; so it functions like a prison.

The weapon I used was incredibly effective, but lacked any form of restraint.

Therefor I am in a time which has become highly defensive. I would be a poor target for flitting, because, if I sense something unbidden, I am likely to attack it, and if this goes through an edged weapon, it could be very damaging.

Until this is resolved, I am stuck between the options of an eventual worse conflict with what I call Suicide Demon, or, the transmutation of the host so they are no longer receptive.

On the other hand, I can definitely be "approached", i. e. if someone uses the signs or mantras I am familiar with, then of course I am going to relax and be reasonable.

I actually sometimes read through your posts and "sleep" on them and read again, I did that with this one. I'm going to offer some possibly disorganized responses to this:

The first is that when this topic came up in my shaking, I do remember writing in my notes (and here, I think) that I quailed at the thought. The idea of just kind of flitting into and out of someone else's consciousness is kind of repugnant, it seems to violate privacy and all sorts of things. So it turns out that idea is very far from what happens. It is literally a glancing pass through, which causes no or some reaction to a "what just happened" or "that's weird" or "how interesting" feeling, and takes the form of maybe a glint of a reflection that catches the attention or an odd thought or even a shudder or nothing at all. One person seemed to be staring right at me when it happened though, I have no idea how that went, maybe they're clairsentient or something. Again, no idea what it was for them, maybe they even saw Mandarava or something.

Second thought: Why would you draw weapons on a butterfly? It seems like a very odd idea. It's a butterfly, like the one in Indonesia that flaps its wings and a hurricane forms in the Gulf of Mexico. It took me hours, literally, to find a term for it, I came up with "flitting". They (Mandarava spec.) called it skillful means. Why would you imprison it? Imprison what? A reflection in a window you happened to see?

Third thought: If the term, "flitting" is an issue I suppose I could change it, but it took me as I say, hours to try to find a word. I went through "sliding" "shifting" "sifting" "tweaking" and tons of others. I chose flitting because it was about the right amount of contact, imagine if you were to feel a single beat of a butterfly's wings against your skin or just the wind from its beat. Tiny. present but sort of defying description on how minimal.

Fourth thought: You wish it would happen to you? Probably it happens all the time.


...this, at least, gives a sense about what might be the difference between trying to get any recognition whatsoever from a being mired in samsara or mundane consciousness, versus someone who is a little more sensitive who might even retaliate unless you supply the "password".

And how would you retaliate? You would flit them back? As I understand it, someone a little more sensitive sees it as the skillful means that it is and maybe rides it to their own advantage in seeking the path. It has no self in it at all so I'm not sure if there's a "who" to retaliate against.


To me, it is simple, since the Dharma does that, but, I cannot just press it on anyone. They have to decide for themselves that there is, at least, a better alternative than living in an avalanche of psychic garbage, and they have to ask for it in some way,...

Mostly likely correct. Depending on what ask means and what press means. Someone who ignores a serendipitous structure of light on whatever they are looking at has not asked and is not pressed.


If we have something to give, someone has to ask/invite/Hook us.

If I hang up a flyer on a kiosk, I have given something. If no one chooses to read it, they have not asked. There are huge flows of billions of positrons through your body 24/7, nothing you can do will stop them from invading "your" space. The idea that a flow should remain outside of someone is attached to a sense of solidity. You do not, and never have, controlled the flow of the world past your eyes, or who previously breathed the molecules in the air you take in in a breath.


If called a Paramita, then, this must be Upaya as seen by others. Pranidhana Natha are the Agnishwattas, Formlessness, teaching of Venus--Human Guru. In Buddhism, Pranidhana also pertains to Vow (similar to Samvara). Vow is supposed to become represented by behavior (Samaya). Upholding Vow by manifesting it, therefor is also quite close to a "Discipline" of Pranidhana evolving to a "Perfection", a display of it.

This makes perfect sense if the vow in question is the bodhisattva's vow to shepherd sentient beings to enlightenment.


Pranidhana also pertains to the Sacrifice Offering of Karmic Fruit or, i. e., fruit of one's actions are also burned by Agni to the deity, and this type of renunciation of the result of work is considered essential, usually, for that type of Red Aura on Cunda and Vajra Tara, letting go of everything I did is essential for the stability of Bodhisattva degree Wisdom.

Is this Red Aura like a glow or like an aureole? Sorry for interrupting but I'm having a lot of color glowings lately and they seem significant.

[Old Student]

Because most everything else in the world refers to Muladhara chakra as important for starting Yoga, I had already done things this way long before hearing of otherwise.

At the point when I found Inverted Stupa is when it "clicked", or I could see how Buddhism was using its own particular language that flowed into the experience of Four or more Joys, except it sounded like a huge upgrade to my bare-bones maneuvers in figuring out how, the mainly physiological aspect of it, works. Because I know it does, I am able to personally ascertain that if the inner meaning of "this" Vajradakini is followed through to this "Vessel" Bharati, then you do get something utterly different, which is what Buddhists call Sahaja. That is the one that can ascend and get the Voids to dissolve.

I can understand how finding out how everything doesn't have to start at Muladhara feels. I was grounded there for the very first few shakings, but then other centers developed and other things, and pretty soon being grounded in a particular place was a convenience for the type of bliss being generated, and not much else.


Again, for me, yes, studying the Vajrayana sadhana structure starts a bit backwards. In simple terms, it was not a particularly nice dakini-guided non-dualization of the lower spheres, it was more like a similar Personal Instruction from Death. In my experience of Dissolutions, meaning Ego Death or direct destruction of the Skandhas into the Bardo or Voids, there is such a thing as Tathagatas, or Dhyani Buddhas, in a pale, faces-in-the-clouds kind of way. It seemed more like they were "just there", like monuments or something. I was intrigued by how Buddhism described them as Wisdoms. I did not understand that part.

In the same way that there seem to be kinds of bliss in my shakings, there are kinds of "Ego Death". All of them have a sort of decision at the beginning, there is a volition that has to be made towards not being there. Some are not inherently unpleasant. Some of them are quite blissful. And then there are a couple that are pure unadulterated terror.


At worst, we might say it is lacking in energy to go all the way.

This is perhaps as essential a thing in shaking as mindfulness or quiet would be in sitting meditation. There is either the energy, or one must generate the energy, or there is a failure for lack of energy.

[shaberon]

And how would you retaliate? You would flit them back? As I understand it, someone a little more sensitive sees it as the skillful means that it is and maybe rides it to their own advantage in seeking the path. It has no self in it at all so I'm not sure if there's a "who" to retaliate against.



I will have to spend some more time in getting to all of this, but, I don't want make it seem like I am generally hostile. I am in some kind of trial which challenges Upeksha, which is why I am glad to find this principle from the beginning Brahma Vihara to the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment. It is scathing.

The karma that is going in is rather ferocious, it is something that has already taken lives.

I try to reason that I am not really a Bodhisattva, but, it is said, we are not given any tests we cannot pass.

So the point is I am extra edgy, do not always see clearly, and have plenty of disturbing emotions karmically-delivered. It is a bit like walking through a bad neighborhood where you have already been mugged a few times.

And so I would want people to be able to understand that, as relatively "bad" as that condition is, if I am able to repair it properly, that is a Karuna. All the blindness and anguish will become converted into some new kind of power.

On a personal basis, I have sapped the type of subconscious upwelling of these things, so it would not be a problem to restore my own aura. At that point it would become more like a Nirmanakaya and generally attractive to Dharma beings.

Being that there are weapons and then there are weapons, I will say that by choice I looked at the Red Flower Arrow, dithered with it conceptually a few times, and within the past few days it appeared and moved in a self-arisen manner which felt appropriate to the mind and aura. My preference is to get through it that way.

In the meantime I am honestly trying to admit to being damaged and to show that a major part of this stuff is to "fix broken people".

[Old Student]

Being that there are weapons and then there are weapons, I will say that by choice I looked at the Red Flower Arrow, dithered with it conceptually a few times, and within the past few days it appeared and moved in a self-arisen manner which felt appropriate to the mind and aura. My preference is to get through it that way.

If this is Kurukulla's red utpala flower arrow, it's point is called the beginning of wisdom. In my shaking, she usually calls attention to her lower two arms (hook and noose), and her breasts. She controls the jewel at my throat because she controls magic, and the other name for the net is Mayajala. Since the jewel is the place through which interpenetration is seen, it is also probably the beginning of wisdom.


In the meantime I am honestly trying to admit to being damaged and to show that a major part of this stuff is to "fix broken people".
So perhaps it's

{wisdom, creation, skillful means} <-- prajna <-- upaya <-- karuna --> caritas --> { love, humanity, charity}

[shaberon]

You do not, and never have, controlled the flow of the world past your eyes, or who previously breathed the molecules in the air you take in in a breath.


If called a Paramita, then, this must be Upaya as seen by others. Pranidhana Natha are the Agnishwattas, Formlessness, teaching of Venus--Human Guru. In Buddhism, Pranidhana also pertains to Vow (similar to Samvara). Vow is supposed to become represented by behavior (Samaya). Upholding Vow by manifesting it, therefor is also quite close to a "Discipline" of Pranidhana evolving to a "Perfection", a display of it.

This makes perfect sense if the vow in question is the bodhisattva's vow to shepherd sentient beings to enlightenment.

Yes, mainly so. That is what I am noticing. Karuna has a lot to do with Dharma Speech.

If you collate a handful of things so you have any basis on which to speak of Prajnaparamita, how would you do it? There are specific recommendations like "give the Dharma in their own language."

I stop on a dime there, because, even if many of us are English speakers, we still use different language.

Allright. So let's imagine that some of them would even have an averse reaction and quit talking if I said anything about Buddhist Dharma specifically.

So we have to choose our words, which is like a conceptual level of how the Bodhisattva does it that, if he needs to speak Chinese, he just does so, and whatever he says, will work. He just knows.

I'm not that good. I mostly respond to people in a way that seems will keep their attention. It is like learning how to speak Goat. You are watching how they move and listening how they think, and then you follow along. In that sense, I am "reading" any person, to make this kind of idea about them.

That is a lot different from the Sangha where we want to hear the Dharma, and so forth. And so I am not yet at the point where like Queen Srimala Devi I make many Buddhist institutions and "press" Buddha Dharma specifically by announcing it and gathering disciples.

We have little to no, but potentially some, control over the flow we find ourselves in. In the way I was using "Hook", it means that I do not introduce myself to someone and subsequently require all their darkest secrets and then explain to them how Buddhism has helped me more than similar things. With a big enough "bubble" or a long enough time frame, something like that happens anyway, with people who Hook me by opening themselves. So all I really meant was I parse out the way I deal with people according to how we may understand each other, and plenty of types I am able to convey a form of goodness through utterly mundane things. This can still be part of Mahamudra, even if it is not a mantra or doctrine or anything like that.




Pranidhana also pertains to the Sacrifice Offering of Karmic Fruit or, i. e., fruit of one's actions are also burned by Agni to the deity, and this type of renunciation of the result of work is considered essential, usually, for that type of Red Aura on Cunda and Vajra Tara, letting go of everything I did is essential for the stability of Bodhisattva degree Wisdom.

Is this Red Aura like a glow or like an aureole? Sorry for interrupting but I'm having a lot of color glowings lately and they seem significant.

Yes, this one, Jnanagni, is the round red aureole on Cunda and Vajra Tara. Win or lose, labor is sacrificed through Agni--Fire without attachment.

Kalaratri also has one and it could be seen as a sign of Sambhogakaya.

Jnanagni must be part of Pranidhana, which is the inner discipline or practice to be expressed and displayed as Upaya Paramita. This relates to man's Formless existence (Agnishwattas) which is governed by Venus--Lakshmi. That is how Agni Homa and Lakshmi Tantra appear to congrue.

Desha Kala Patra sounds like the Sutra basis of how I was trying to explain speaking to different sentient beings differently; if this is part of the "capacity" of Upaya Paramita, this sounds like it must pertain to the corresponding inner discipline, Pranidhana. It probably does, if Karuna also has to show up, and part of Karuna is this knowledgeable communication.

So if I figure out how to assemble the first "bundle" up to Prajna Paramita, then, if I look one step further at Upaya, it is not giving me that much new, it is telling me to put it in practice in terms of Accomplishment and skillful Dharma Speech, it is like taking a semi-leadership seniority position. Traditionally, this would seem to resemble taking on a Vajracharya role, and then you are going to have to advise students on these subjects.

If Speech broadly includes any type of communication, then I would not see why Flitting should not be as incorporated as the animalistic things I do, or rather I should say Animal Magnetism.

If I personally sensed something and it was more "butterfly" than "vampire", I would, of course, be fine with that. Maybe it does happen a lot and we just don't know. I have very little proficiency with anything like that. In about a semester, I became pretty decent at Dream Yoga, since I was in a suitable place for it. I was able to master the technique of flying in lotus posture. I could mechanically control my trajectory, but, mentally, I had no idea where I was going. I think I may have gotten somewhere, I just don't understand who it was or what happened.

That was at the same time I learned Guru Yoga and tried it in different ways.

More recently I have had need of weapons, which, to me, seems Ganesh-like, collecting any Shaktis. Bagalamukhi--Mace was in the early part of last year. I thought I was through, but, the catch was, new wormhole. The other end of that is "here" which so far is Flower Arrow. That one was more samadhi-esque and had at least a partial visualization. There was no Kurukulla, in fact there was no Bow and no use of the arms drawing it. That is because it simply moved from heart to heart under its own power.

I can say for sure it was at least modestly effective for ten minutes. I have the feeling I'm still not through. Maybe using a lot of those is the thing to do. I personally prefer it to the other thing.

I think everything pertaining to the Voids can be described as energy levels. They are faster than before, something like:

Varuni = source = indefinite

Vairocani = Tapas ~ 6 months?

Kurukulla = Throat and Head ~ 6 months?

Vajradakini = Crown ~ 6 months?

This could eliminate one Tathagata, or three, or all of them and fizzle, or start a cascade that could go anywhere.

Bharati = Sukha Vardhani = Sahaja = all at once?

It might be One Sahaja, it might be Four, it may skirt the voids or unpeel them, in which case they have a spring-like resistance as an individual. If you are able to sit stable in them, then Light is usually described as Expansions and Contractions. From the point of "this" Vajradakini, there is momentum and ability, things may seem accelerated, vagueness of the teachings may clarify.

So on a physiological basis, there is some kind of pressure which has to operate certain governors, if it has the oomph to pass them. It is always a non-dualizing tendency, which is hard to tell at first since it is like a crystal with so many facets, but as it is reduced to lower denominators, its nature becomes more obvious.

When there is something fiery at the head then we think of a corresponding metaphysical cooling such as Sitabani and what she seems to be doing in the weird Pancha Raksha 206. It is like you are metaphysically going to keep some of the Light and pass off the Heat. It is like you are writing a formula that says it takes X heat to melt the white bodhicitta. Like gun barrels and engines, you're trying not to warp the equipment.

That may vary by personal need from small to large. You might be naturally "adjusted", or, it could be a huge barrier. I fortunately have never impacted my brain with the type of fireball that slipped out in my back that time. Although it felt internally like it was about to combust, to the outside, it only seemed like scalding hot water ca. 120 degrees.

[Old Student]

Yes, this one, Jnanagni, is the round red aureole on Cunda and Vajra Tara. Win or lose, labor is sacrificed through Agni--Fire without attachment.

Kalaratri also has one and it could be seen as a sign of Sambhogakaya.

Ah, different then. The problem or phenomenon I was having was more of glowing.


If Speech broadly includes any type of communication, then I would not see why Flitting should not be as incorporated as the animalistic things I do, or rather I should say Animal Magnetism.


My understanding of animal magnetism was that it was a version of hypnosis?


If I personally sensed something and it was more "butterfly" than "vampire", I would, of course, be fine with that. Maybe it does happen a lot and we just don't know. I have very little proficiency with anything like that.

In post-1900s (i.e. recent) linguistics, there is the concept of a Sprachbund (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprachbund) which is like a marketplace of languages, where lots are spoken and therefore they seed each other with words, and later on can be mistaken for common origins, which in linguistics are done like evolution in trees.

If this concept is taken over to the whole of what is absorbed into the common memory, it creates a web rather than a chain of common memory over generations. If one adds in differing proclivities for how memories are framed, there is an even richer web created.

The reason for mentioning this is the shear wealth of experiences that could be produced by the same action performed on different beings. But no action will happen to a being without it being something "they are ready for." Why are they ready for it? Who knows.


So on a physiological basis, there is some kind of pressure which has to operate certain governors, if it has the oomph to pass them. It is always a non-dualizing tendency, which is hard to tell at first since it is like a crystal with so many facets, but as it is reduced to lower denominators, its nature becomes more obvious.

This kind of thing happens over and over in shaking -- there is not enough oomph, so go away and come back when you have it. There is too much oomph, so you blank out and spend your time trying to stay conscious.

[shaberon]

So perhaps it's

{wisdom, creation, skillful means} <-- prajna <-- upaya <-- karuna --> caritas --> { love, humanity, charity}


Well, I think that is a pretty good way of looking at it, like a center between extremes, Prajna and Caritas are both going to cancel extremes.

The remark I would make is that it is Sutra based and, depending on situation, there is a good chance someone would become familiar with either Prajnaparamita or Avalokiteshvara first. The latter is a national institution, so to speak, in Nepal and Tibet, versus I am not sure how widespread Prajnaparamita actually is, aside from Kagyu Ngondro. I just mean the Heart Sutra, and/or its mantra. Either one of those *is* the heart of Prajnaparamita, and if you are doing it according to instruction, then it is mantra transmission.

Love or Metta is the first Brahma Vihara, and, it seems to have no particular deity, since it is considered a part of any deity.

Part of the Karuna is saying you definitely need to have this love for yourself, you want to be infused with this good quality, else how do you have any to share?

So in simple terms it is saying that, of course, you should feel as good as possible. Then if you follow the Karuna, this will eventually become tantric Bliss. If anyone succeeds, even a little bit, it helps others.


In the full-blown Tibetan rituals, there are Arrows made for any purpose with the appropriate color and symbols. The one I have in mind is the Sugar Arrow, derived from India. It may simply have to do with the senses and Kama:

"In the institutes of Manu the Loka palas are represented as standing in close relation to the ruling king, who is composed of particles of these his tutelary deities. The retinue of Indra consists chiefly of the Gandharvas, a class of genii, considered in the epics as the celestial musicians; and their wives, the Apsaras, lovely nymphs, who are frequently employed by the gods to make the pious devotee desist from carrying his austere practices to an extent that might render him dangerous to their power. ..The interesting office of the god of love is held by Kamadeva, also called Ananga, the bodyless, because, as the myth relates, having once tried by the power of his mischievous arrow to make Siva fall in love with Parvati, whilst he was engaged in devotional practices, the urchin was reduced to ashes by a glance of the angry god."

Mahasri's father is Naga Raja Taksasa from the beginning of the Mahabarata. He also has a son named Ashwasena which is also the name of Kamadeva's Five Arrows. He shares one tiny little village with Dhanvantari, the god of medicine. Long ago his presence was widespread. No one has directly stated that Taksasa shelters Amoghasiddhi, but he is Tara's father generally as Taksasa is of this specific form, so I don't think you would be wrong placing all three together.

Maya Jala of Krsnacharya is Kurukulla's Six Arm form where she rides Taksaka and carries the water pitcher for initiation.



In case we need to know about the teaching of Karma Mudra, it is also related to arrows:

In Vilasini's texts, the teacher is Sabara or male forest dweller. He learned this from Karuna around the mountains Manovibhaga and Cittavisrama (cf. Vajrayogini). Virupa's form is the initial Vajravilasini who may have a consort, then Sabara's second kind always does. The first may be two-handed holding a kulisha and a lotus, or two handed with a skullcup and vajra. She is red in color like that of dawn and has three eyes, two of which are half-closed expressing the supreme bliss of the shringara rasa. Her mantra uses vagbhava, maya, and manmatha seed syllables. She comes with Ten Vilasinis who are also used with the second form.

As Guhya Vajravilasini, or Mahsri Nagara Vilasini, she is Red or Yellow, and is shown elevated on her partner Padmanarta's penis (i. e. penetration). In this form she has a chopper and noose. Her mantra is em hlim rim rum blim, similar to Saivist arrow syllables. Her pendulum is that the syllables start on the sex of the female consort (vidya), enter the male via his penis, exit through his nostril, enter the vidya via her nostril, and again pass into her sex. Rambha and Tilottama, that used to tempt the sages, now become controlled powers, who also confer blessing on the rite. Here is Vilasini Upasana explaining her seed syllables and showing a "doubling" of Pancha Jina to ten. The ten are outer attendants, and the close one is highly erotic VidyadharI. She has 3 heads and carries a skullcup from which she drinks wine and a staff. She is brilliant red in color and clothed in only a garland of nagakesha flowers and bears long thick flowing untied tresses, with her youthful body excited with erotic pleasure. Her mantra is similar to that of Chinnamasta. These Vilasinis are not reversed.


There is in some sense also a Karmeshvari:

"Vajra Prajnaparamita" or the text goddess of the whole Kagye' cycle is called Guhyajnana, Kungamo, Lekyi Wangmo, Karma Indranila, Karmeshvari. The primordial transmission is Vajradhara to Vajrasattva, Heruka, Vajradharma, dakini Karmeshvari. Tantra of the Sun of the Brilliant Expanse was taught by the female buddha Samantabhadri to the dakinis of the five families. After she taught this, the dakini Karmeshvari retained its hundred and forty chapters, wrote it down with golden ink on lapis parchment and placed it within a crystal casket. This tantra was kept in the dakini mandala in the mystical charnel ground Blazing Fire Mountain, within the uppermost part of a jeweled stupa with one hundred and eight tiers standing at the roof of a pagoda made of five precious metals. And here it remained until the lineage was passed to Hayagriva and Vajra Varahi, and from them to the Vidyadharas.



Mandarava is most frequently portrayed with an Arrow.

Mandarava is usually considered a Sambhogakaya of Pandara. Is Mandarava really Siddharajni? One source, a Thai art store (https://www.thai-buddhas.com/blog/mandarava/), records a Tibetan name of hers as Machik Drubpai Gyalmo, which means Siddharajni. It also mentions Chime Soktik which is the standard Long Life practice attributed to her, and used in the advanced form of Lama Chopa which is Gelug Guru Yoga.

If she really is Siddharajni I would feel a little closer.

As I have said, I am not close to any of them as individuals. In Kagyu there is a somewhat secret lady who is the only person I can think of who composed herself into a sadhana. The reason for this she says is:

"I am more tenacious than other girls".

Achi Chokyi Drolma is also called Dharma Tara Dakini, and positions herself in all roles:

https://64.media.tumblr.com/22df514216df0bf0abff90bd40b30bee/tumblr_n7d6f5sO421rmpim5o1_500.jpg


In the center is the Achi visualized for Guru Yoga, to the upper left Achi as Yidam, to the upper right is Achi as the Dakini summons long life, to the lower left is the Achi who summons prosperity, and the lower right is the Achi as Protector.

That seems bizarre and highly obscure, except I was able to find a picture of her present at a recent wedding in Maryland.

I don't know if Achi is Siddharajni.

Animal Magnetism could be considered hypnosis, just not the subliminal herd mentality auto-suggestions like on tv. More like Franz Mesmer, except I am not a doctor. Same kind of thing on a more psychological basis. Like a non-psychologist. Dancelike at times for sure. For some reason they confide in me. I can't really explain that part. Unless that it is hard to find someone any good at it.

So I'm not swindling industrial secrets and have no interest in the like; but have been successful on more than one occasion for beneficial catharsis in others. Far more by using mundane speech with just a heart-centered mind.

It was asked of me recently if I am a White Supremacist because my interests seem to be Aryan in character.

Working against a deficit here.

I just have to say something like these Aryan texts have helped me dispel almost everything that I hear almost everyone else complaining about?

I cannot read half of this thirteenth-century document, but I understand how to make a lot of it work as if I had written it?

Perhaps I outright declare myself a vassal of H. H. the Black Hat.

It is tricky to represent myself considering no such questions have ever been asked. The one tattoo I do have is a type of Buddhist triskelion, but, whatever anyone may ever make of it, is probably very little.

Sugar Arrow was "kind of" the popular romantic kind but, moreso, a type of heart resonance in a harmonious field with the life force. It has a Red Flower whose gentle blossoming is also palpable. And I suppose Formless. The Mace was...erm...unmistakably there. This one was Only Mental.

Since you are familiar with what it is like to gauge psycho-pneumatic pressure, then, I would think you would be able to do what for example Naro is talking about. To me I guess he may be the most significant figure in the Lineage Tree, in describing the Joys as Buddhism seeks to shape it. Center Between Extremes will mean more and more the further one goes. It is the only kind of Yoga I personally know.

It would have been great if the information we have today had been around when I was young. By the time I worked up a halfway decent understanding, I forced myself to stop the tantric processes. Too powerful. If such a Vajradakini were to happen to me now, I might have to sit around and beg for gruel.

[Old Student]

The remark I would make is that it is Sutra based and, depending on situation, there is a good chance someone would become familiar with either Prajnaparamita or Avalokiteshvara first. The latter is a national institution, so to speak, in Nepal and Tibet, versus I am not sure how widespread Prajnaparamita actually is, aside from Kagyu Ngondro. I just mean the Heart Sutra, and/or its mantra. Either one of those *is* the heart of Prajnaparamita, and if you are doing it according to instruction, then it is mantra transmission.

The Heart Sutra is really short. We had to chant it when I was sitting Zen (in English except for the last line). The Prajnaparamita in its entirety if it really had 100,000 verses is no longer extant. There are 20,000 verse and of course 8,000 verse copies in several languages, and then there is the Heart Sutra.


Maya Jala of Krsnacharya is Kurukulla's Six Arm form where she rides Taksaka and carries the water pitcher for initiation.

This I haven't heard of, I need to look into this.


Mandarava is usually considered a Sambhogakaya of Pandara. Is Mandarava really Siddharajni? One source, a Thai art store, records a Tibetan name of hers as Machik Drubpai Gyalmo, which means Siddharajni. It also mentions Chime Soktik which is the standard Long Life practice attributed to her, and used in the advanced form of Lama Chopa which is Gelug Guru Yoga.

That she is Machik Drubpai Gyalmo is I think an established fact (it's also on Wikipedia, for instance). I don't know anything about Siddharajni, except she comes up in lists of Yoginis. Mandarava is often equated/taken as incarnation of Pandaravasini. She is usually flying to me, either about to take flight, or flying. She accepted her rainbow body and flew out of the fire when she was immolated, the story goes.


It was asked of me recently if I am a White Supremacist because my interests seem to be Aryan in character.
Hitler originated this idea, along with appropriating and defiling the swastika.

In actuality, "Aryan" means someone from the Iranian Plateau, either a modern day Iranian, or in history any or all of the Iranians from Eastern Persia/Western Central Asia, including the Saka (Scythians) at times.

[shaberon]

Yes, that is the same Heart Sutra, ours actually does have a few lines after the mantra.

That is "Dharma in our own language" since a mantra cannot be translated. Then in retrograde motion I have listened to the Sanskrit version several times, and it does start getting a little easier to understand.

When conjoined with Kagyu Guru Yoga, then, you have an easy impetus to work in a Prajnaparamita Deity along with Dhih, her Picu mantra, and Om Ah Hum. She is over Guru in many of our Refuge Trees, and so it is like she is remembered always even if not featured or speaking.

Kagyu or not, the Sutra and mantra remains a type of empowerment seeking those who are truly interested in the philosophy and its practice and samadhi. And so you have this bond and it is driving you into itself. Then I can gather a Horde of Taras and signs of Prajnaparamita will keep coming back, until it is revealed that the highest tantras such as Kalachakra or Guhyeshvari are really using a fusion or hypostasis of Prajnaparamita.

There is something that grabs me about Achi, whom I believe is part of Drikung which is Bhutanese, which has a facility around D. C. or Maryland now. I spent time challenging and questioning what the teaching means about a Protector, since there are so many kinds. And what I came to on a personal basis is White Maha Sri. And so Achi what are you doing?

Then we spent some time with the fine-tuning and historical questions about the color Blue, and came to the point where Turquoise is an exceptionally potent occult kind, which is on an axis with Orange, which implies Amrita--Nectar. Achi what are you doing in your Vasudhara form??

Her two worldly forms have just absorbed and displayed everything I have spent the past few years criticizing the Tibetan version's technical difficulties compared to Sanskrit.

Above them is her Sambhogakaya form, and then she is a Yidam in Dharmakaya, and also Vajra Kaya in a form not terribly different from Mrtyuvacana--Vajra Tara. Her personal deity is Vajrasattva--Vajra Gharvi.

I have nothing to do with any lineage of hers, but it is like she has single-handedly grasped everything I was saying.

The resolution is not that great, but, by magnifying it, one can tell her Yidam bears an Eight-spoked Wheel on her chest, Long Life carries blue nectar, the central form is holding a book, her arrow has pure white ribbons, and peaceful protector can use the same nightmare mount as the other Maha Sris can; a bond with one being helpful for the others.

If you get how pressure works, Achi is going to be forced to explain to me if this is seeing her pattern the right way.

Achi, I am going to chase you around the world system until we get this sorted.



The tradition says that, along with Guhyajnana being the eminent esoteric deity, she has a white personal teacher form, Siddharajni. And so we lean towards these as the "wild-caught" version of Dakini and Yogini energy; a manifest or immanent kind. In the manner of how I would not suggest anyone just pick up and do a Jnana Dakini or Cinnamasta exercise. If you start on the basics and the system seems to activate, then Guhyajnana and Siddharajni are universal definitions, like saying there is a Bodhisattva of the Nose or a Buddha of Greed.


Kurukulla 181 is a moderately large piece with an unusual Kurukulla whose syllable is Ksah; she has Curtains, and a White Dharmodaya. She is attributed to Acharya Sri Krishna, who calls it:

śrīmanmāyājālamahāyogatantrāt ṣoḍaśasāhasrikādākṛṣṭakurukullāsādhanaṃ samāptam

Srimad, or sriman, implies Increase of Sri, it is a Maha Yoga Tantra, with Sixteen Thousand of I am not sure what the next part says.

It has a lot of details with its own Nyasa and multiple arisings of things out of disks and so forth and some specific application to Eyes--Netra.

I cannot understand a lot of it, but, by way of familiarity, I am able to find many of the operative details which will give us a better idea of what the deity does, than, for example, the way Bhattacharya did it by ignoring mantras almost completely.

It has quite a few things which stand out. At the beginning:

abhinavavanalakṣmīhārisarvvāṅgaśobhām /

Abhinava [possibly a famous teacher] Vana Lakshmi Hari Sarva Anga Sobham

Anga = "Limbs", whether Six Limb Yoga, limbs of the body, branches of her amnaya, I am not sure. Hang on, Kurukulla, what are you doing with Hari--Vishnu??

kurukullāṃ kāmasarpāpahantrīm //

Kama Sarpa says something about snakes, of whom, she procures Ananta's Family. This one does not seem to mention Taksaka. In some cases I have found notes that cannot be tied to source scriptures. I would have to look around where it says anything about this form having a mount.

She has customized something called Marici Jala as the Dhatu of all the Lokas:

marīci-jālai daśadiksthithān sarvvalokadhātūn avabhāsya śrīkuru-
kullārūpeṇāvasthāpya punar āgatya tasminn eva bīje praviṣṭān
marīcijālān vibhāvayet /

She comes out of Eight Varsakara (Rainclouds?), has Big Hair, and then her form has Six Arms and Vajra Feet:

pañcakapālaśiro-dharāṃ tārkṣyāsanāṃ vajraparyyaṅkaniṣaṇṇāṃ śuklaprabhāmaṇḍalānvitāṃ
ṣadbhujāṃ savyāvasavyaprathamakarābhyāṃ trailokyavijayamudrā-
dharāṃ dvitīyavāmadakṣiṇakarābhyām abhayasitakundakalikā-
dharāṃ pariśiṣṭabhujadvayenākṣasūtrakamaṇḍaludharāṃ saśṛṅgārarasaṃ
bibhratīṃ kanakavalayapūritabāhulatikāṃ navayauvanagarvitāṃ
sitavstraparidhānāṃ śuklakañcukottarīyāṃ sarvvābharaṇabhūṣitāṃ
pañcatathāgatamukuṭāṃ

If correct, this means she is formed by raining in the Eight Cemeteries, which means Bodhicitta has begun moving in them. I cannot really say that is what it says, but that is what it sounds like, which makes sense to me.

So her central special feature is Trilokyavijaya Mudra, which I believe is a certain understanding of Humkara Mudra. She has the unusual combination of Sringara and Bibhrata (Disgust). She is in white clothes and also White Bodices; Kancuka being a Shiva term for the underwear of Shakti or i. e., her operation in subtle veils of maya. She is crowned by Five Buddhas. She is in white light. Nothing seems to specifically say if she is red or white. She is against fear (Abhaya) with a White Kunda Kalika involved with a pair of hands, and then a Non-dual (Advaya) Aksa Sutra Rosary, and finally her Pitcher.

Her rite is a Bhakti which makes Infinite Karuna in the Trikaya:

pūjayitvā paramakāruṇiko yogī bhaktinamraḥ kāyavāk-
cittena vandayed iti vandanā,

She makes use of Citta Vajra. The teachings say that Bhakti alone is not very useful unless conjoined with this.

She Hooks Amitabha and Guhya Tara:

ākṛṣyāmitābhanātham ānīya guhyetarābhiḥ pūjābhiḥ
taṃ sampūjya cābhiṣekaṃ yācayet

She subjects the Five Nectars to Om Ah Hum, which affects the Three Worlds or Tri Tattva:

pañcāmṛtaṃ bakṣyaṃ śodhayitvā matritaṃ oṃ āḥ huṃ iti tryakṣareṇa /
tritattvais tadadhiṣṭhānam, adhiṣṭhānāt mantrasiddhir iti /

She refers to the Pithas at Pullira, Malaya, and Jalandhara, and is going to use the Amrita--Nectar on the Dhatu of Skandhas and Ayatanas:

svahṛdi ādisvaraṃ dhyātvā kapālatrayopari padmabhāṇḍaṃ
tanmadhye pañcabījāni tato bījān niḥsṛtya pullīramalayaṃ
gatvā punar jālandharaṃ yāvat tato jālandharagatān tathā-
gatān bodhayet / tān sarvānekībhūtān drutaṃ candramaṇḍala-
rūpaṃ paśyed amṛtam, ghaṇṭikārandhramārgeṇa sravad amṛtaṃ skandha-
dhātvāyatanāni prīṇayet /


She then casts Inverted Stupa.

I am not sure if her form changes; it is said again she has white clothes:

bhagavatīmūrttim avalambya śuklavastraṃ

At this point her Water Pitcher of Initiation is into the Net:

kamaṇḍalu-jalābhiṣecanaṃ

The end of her is in some way a meditation on colors:

śuklaṃ dhyānaṃ lalāṭe bindurūpaṃ nirvviṣīkaroti / pītaṃ
dhyānaṃ stambhanaṃ karoti / raktaṃ dhyānaṃ nāgarūpaṃ viṣastobhaṃ
kurute / raktaṃ dhyānaṃ viṣasaṃkrāmaṇaṃ kurute / haritaṃ dhyānaṃ
pratyujjīvanaṃ kurute / iti dhyānaviśeṣaḥ kathitaḥ /


That is without asking anything to the more accessible sources.

In this case it is a bit like a shared Hindu deity taking on the forbidden Six Arm form. The one they have that actually does this is Dattatreya, because he is an emanation of the Trinity, like Pratyangira.

The fact that Kurukulla is doing Humkara and pointing at Citta Chakra is telling.

She does not exactly seem to have a Family, except she is reliable for Karuna, and, she evokes Amitabha, who is a Nath, or, utterly helpful, especially in matters pertaining to rebirth. Whether or not she is red, she is like Pandara Vasini, "Robed in White".

That last part is really weird and I have no idea why there is a play on karoti and kurute.

Kurukulla 179 appears to have the same phrase with Marici Jala, although on the second iteration it is perturbed to Marici Jvala. Otherwise I do not think I ever noticed or heard of this.

[Old Student]

Then I can gather a Horde of Taras and signs of Prajnaparamita will keep coming back, until it is revealed that the highest tantras such as Kalachakra or Guhyeshvari are really using a fusion or hypostasis of Prajnaparamita.

In strictly historical terms, in Odisha and Bengal (Pala Kingdom really), there was a progression from Prajnaparamita to Cunda that followed the same arc as that from Shakyamuni to Akshobhya and is interpreted as a shift from Mahayana to Tantra. Not sure that progression works in other geographical locations but it might.


She has customized something called Marici Jala as the Dhatu of all the Lokas

Several sources say maricijala is a water mirage (the watery part of a mirage in the desert).

http://www.buddhas-online.com/mudras2/M20.gif
(Trailokyavijaya mudra)

This is interesting that she is clothed and coming out of rain and is like a mirage in the desert.

[shaberon]

In strictly historical terms, in Odisha and Bengal (Pala Kingdom really), there was a progression from Prajnaparamita to Cunda that followed the same arc as that from Shakyamuni to Akshobhya and is interpreted as a shift from Mahayana to Tantra. Not sure that progression works in other geographical locations but it might.


The impression I get from most of the Oriental systems is that they are based in Garbhadhatu and Vajradhatu, or, expanding Five Families to Six, mainly emphasizing the male aspect.

We are, so to speak, simply outlining a Seventh and emphasizing Maha Vajradhatu and the female aspect.

Cunda was the Yidam of one of the first major Pala kings and also a personal Protector of his by providing a magic Club, while he is also considered to have an interest in Vajrayana. And so, it mainly is the explanation of Prajnaparamita Sutra, at a Tantra level. Around that time, you do get a build-up of monasteries and universities, some of which could handle thousands of members. Most were not that big, but, there were a lot of them, and so, there must have been increasing public awareness of at least some of this. I think there was also a huge underground, since so many of the Mahasiddhas were trained by obscure, unknown, "nobodies", there must have been many more no-ones who were quite advanced; the Dharma Wheels were turned according to the time in which there was an audience to understand them; and so if Vasubandhu is writing to some crowd who can appreciate the fine points of the distinction of Arhats, it is likely that many of them were never enrolled in an institution.

Jala can literally be "water" and marici "mirage" and so, if anything, this is also a plausible meaning for one of the first Dissolutions, first or second, depending on how you want to compare it to Smoke--Dhumavati. If I did it intentionally in the framework of a sadhana, I would put Smoke first, since it is the color of Samadhi as expressed by Candi, and also that Dhumavati is a name for Lakshmi--Kamadhatvishvari.

I cannot yet say if this is how it is being used, here, but at least we see it is being used.

I certainly missed a couple details in the first analysis of Six Arm Kurukulla.

Kurukulla 181 seems to contradict the other notes by using a form of Upari, "above or upon".

The combining form -opari is common in Sadhanamala, for example:

candramandalopari

"upon a moon disk".

Or, as a pronoun, tasyopari, "upon which", referring to something just mentioned. Because there is a lot of use of "spawn stack", there are frequently multiple "-opari"s in any given sadhana.

However it is used as a Mount very sagaciously. There is one instance of:

mayuropari

and it is also used with Lion or Simha for Mahasri and the Simhanadas of Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara.

This Kurukulla is the only Garudopari.

In fact it comes right after Naga Family, which does include Taksaka, not as a Mount:

anantādikulikāntān nāgān nyaset sarvveṣu sthāneṣu -
akṣarāṇāṃ purā nyāsaṃ svarāṇāṃ ca viśeṣataḥ /
tatpaścād anantakulikau keśavandhanasthitau //
hemābhastakṣakaḥ karṇabhūṣākṛtodyamaḥ śiraḥ /
maṇibandhe mahāpadmastaptacāmīkaraprabhah //
yajñopavītakriyayā sthitaḥ karkkoṭakaḥ sitaḥ /
vāsukirmekhalāyāṃ tu raktapadmāmaladyutiḥ //
kundabandhūkasaṅkāśau padmaśaṅkhau ca pādayoḥ /
īdṛśaurābharaṇair ugrair bhūṣito mantravit sadā //
kurukullārūpasaṃśitaḥ garuḍopari samāsīnaḥ sādhayet
sacarācaraṃ evam anenānukrameṇa /

He is like gold or has gold light, is the Earrings.

Examined carefully, the Nagas given are Ananta, Taksaka, Maha Padma, Karkkotaka, Vasuki, and perhaps Padma.

The Nagas are the method for:

alātacakrarūpeṇa mantrarūpeṇa sādhakaḥ /

Firebrand or glowing coal chakra? Mantra is the form of its spiritual practice.

This is for her initiation, or her Kamandalu Jala Abhiseka as mentioned previously, it is these Nagas as a Nyasa, after which there is a Purna Kumbha, which appears to use Twenty-one (syllables or praises?). Then the strange ending with the colors.

It perhaps means that Kurukulla adorns herself with the Nagas and then gets on a Garuda, since her form was described at the beginning, and this is the end. Because she said something about Vishnu, this would not be too surprising.

179 is like a prelude to this, copying multiple blocks of passages, but uses her Four Arm form in Rakta Vastra or red clothes.

Alice Getty simply said that Kurukulla "may" have six or eight arms, but claims to have seen her on Rahu. She also says that Vajravarahi is simply a form of Marici, and it is this, who is Samding Dorje Phamo.

Most Tibetan lineages retain four to six basic Kurukullas, whereas Sadhanamala contains:

- [171] Tarobhava Kurukulla (Kalpoktam)
- [172] Tarobhava Kurukulla Sadhanam (Muktakena)
- [173] Kurukulla Shadbhuja (six hands)
- [174] Ashtabhuja Kurukulla (Indrabhuti, eight hands)
- [175] Bhramariyoga Kurukulla Sadhanam
- [176] Kurukulla Upadesha
- [177] Kurukulla Sadhanam
- [178] Arya Shrimati Kurukulla Sadhanam
- [179] Uddiyana Vinirgata Kurukulla
- [180] Shrulka Kurukulla Sadhanam
- [181] Kurukulla Sadhanam, Acharya Shri Krishna Padanam Mayajala Mahayoga Tantra
- [182] Kurukulla Shadbhuja Bhattarika Sadhanam
- [183] Kurukulla, Sahaja Vilasya Hevajra Tantra
- [184] Samskipta Kurukulla
- [185] Sita Kurukulla
- [186] Hevajra Krama Kurukulla
- [187] Kurukulla Sadhanam Karunachalashya Hevajra Tantra
- [188] Kurukulla Sadhanam
- [189] Karmaprasar Prayog
- [190] Kurukulla Balividhi

So there are at least a couple other examples of Six Arm Kurukulla, 173 and 182, if not more. Those two are also doing Trailokyavijaya Mudra, and they are Red.

She looks pretty potent to me.

Here we find about a dozen articles on this goddess which are not even recognized to exist by any extant practice. Now I think that because they are stable as evidenced by these practices, and that before these practices, there was no such thing in the world, the fact that there is no such thing now, is not really a barrier.

I was perhaps mixed-up and that Trailokyavijyaya Mudra is the same as Bhutadamaru Mudra, which is used by Vajrapani and Kurukulla. Humkara is with palms inwards. I should know better because I made these the challenge issues for Taras five and six.

Because Kurukulla can be found somewhat wrathful, I wrapped her in as Six, Trailokyavijaya, Maroon Terrorizer, subdues spirits.

The verse (http://warnemyr.com/indotibetan/21taras/6.html) does not say she is dark red. And Kurukulla shows Trailokyavijaya (Bhutadamara) mudra on her Mayajala and Eight Arm forms. She is crucial to Sakya and considered secret and esoteric in Kagyu. Her attendants include Vajragandhari (consort of Yaksha general Candavajrapani) and Red Gauri. Hindus see her as Tara--Sundari--Matangi (the latter two being Aum and Om). She is similar to Siddhi sambhava, i. e. gives powers. Nyingma's red interpretation for this verse is compared to Vajravidarana, so, is not far from Red Vasudhara, called Vajravidarani. This one is also a Nepalese Dharani.

The verse does not even mention Trailokyavijaya, which is just an idea from one of the traditions. The Tara in question here is simply admired by Hindu beings. Tibetans have imputed a meaning that is like Bhutadamara. Kurukulla is admired by everyone, and if not, she can do that. It does not need to be Vidarani, who is Vasudhara, as I thought Vasudhara should be at Nine (http://warnemyr.com/indotibetan/21taras/9.html) because it uses a type of Prithvi Mudra, although it is called Triple Gem Mudra. Arguably something else could go here, since Vasudhara does not necessarily do it this way. This verse clearly says it is about the mudra.




Humkara Mudra is like holding a Dorje and Bell, except nothing is there. It is the normal way Yab-Yum males are posed, and it is also the special gesture of Amaravajra. Male Humkara deity who opens Three Families of Vajravarahi is the same as Vajravali lineage held by Dolpopa and shared with the original Bodong-pa rare school used by Tibet's highest female tulku, Samding Dorje Phagmo.

Tara Five (http://warnemyr.com/indotibetan/21taras/5.html) makes things incredibly nefarious for Tibetan commentors to explain the Seven Worlds. It is just as nefarious with the unknown word "Tuttare", that has no meaning. Here, it is in conjunction with Humkara and a phrase about walking through all space since the beginning.

The commentors tend to interpret this as is she is saying the "syllables" tuttare hum.

I am simply open to a possibility that the "meaning" of tuttare is to have filled time and space with Humkara since the beginning, and, so, a Tara having this gesture, such as Amaravajra, could be considered here. That is, of course, not necessarily the meaning, because there isn't one. It is just a way of comparing the song to the forms of Tara that we can show were in use when it was composed, rather than the later variations by Atisha and others. There is still Sragdhara, and Vistara, and a few others that have not been scoped out.

No dictionary, and none of the traditions can really give a meaning to "tuttare", whereas we can give a meaning of Humkara other than as the syllable.

Amaravajra is also Maha Pratyangira.

Although it says,

The principal identifiable physical feature of Humkara is the main pair of arms crossed at the heart in a variant on the vajra embracing gesture with the palms turned outward and the index fingers straight and upward pointing. Alternately, a similar gesture can also be found on the top of the head rather than in front of the heart. When above the head the hands can be holding a vajra and bell. Sometimes this is referred to in texts as the 'vajra humkara gesture.'

This is Humkara:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/9/7/59707.jpg





Amaravajra:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/535px/1/0/0/100184.jpg





and this is Bhutadamara Vajrapani:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/2/5/42590.jpg






he is at the level of the Second Kama Loka or Heaven of the Thirty-three and hauls in all of the Hindu deities in Sarvadurgati Parishodana; and, in Vajravali, he is related to Marici-in-Stupa.

And so "this" Kurukulla is arguably the only one who presents an "alternative Bhutadamara". Not that her picture is available, or anyone knows much to speak of her, but as far as I know, she is unique for this. So I think that is a good reason for her as Tara Six if there is any hint that she may have tamed some of those spooks. And, if she continues it on her Eight Arm form, she perhaps does more with it than he does.

These mudras are almost in parallel, you get Humkara--Three Families of Varahi (and Amaravajra), and Bhutadamara--Marici (and Sakya Simha and Vajradhatu). The gestures are both Vajrapani in Sarvadurgati Parishodana. Or, they are both Tara as Amaravajra and Kurukulla.

[Old Student]

Cunda was the Yidam of one of the first major Pala kings and also a personal Protector of his by providing a magic Club, while he is also considered to have an interest in Vajrayana. And so, it mainly is the explanation of Prajnaparamita Sutra, at a Tantra level.

This explains it then. I (with much help from you) had identified one of the Dakinis, the white six-armed one originally in my deep abdomen, with Cunda. There was one night that during something she was doing she talked about "reverting to Prajnaparamita" in order to carry it out.

The current "new one" has both pushed towards and indicated a high preference for being called Ushas. I can't find anything "post-Vedic" about Ushas, or Buddhist for that matter, except that Marici is sometimes identified as her wrathful aspect. So this has some bearing on my interest in that interpretation of maricijala --


Jala can literally be "water" and marici "mirage" and so, if anything, this is also a plausible meaning for one of the first Dissolutions, first or second, depending on how you want to compare it to Smoke--Dhumavati. If I did it intentionally in the framework of a sadhana, I would put Smoke first, since it is the color of Samadhi as expressed by Candi, and also that Dhumavati is a name for Lakshmi--Kamadhatvishvari.

I cannot yet say if this is how it is being used, here, but at least we see it is being used.

So with what I said about Ushas in mind, if you will bear with me, I did some deeper diving into that passage (and since I don't know grammar very much and have nowhere near the experience you have with this, this will be a bit like watching someone read tea leaves).

The first part reads:

marīci-jālai daśadiksthithān sarvvalokadhātūn avabhāsya

Both maricijala and diksthithi are states demarcated by some practitioners of kundalini yoga (the old kind, not the "Sikh" kind). maricijala has two meanings in that context, both having to do with the watery mirages in the desert:

The first is that mistaking the body for Atman is considered a maricijala -- a mirage, and ignorant.

The second is more interesting, it is a state, a "state of yoga" into which a practitioner can enter by activating simultaneously all of the chakras, he/she becomes in a state of being a mirage where the 5 senses realize their illusions. Because of this meaning, beings can create, arise, or whatever from this mirage "feeling".

Diksthithi translates as bearing in the mathematical sense of a bearing -- a direction, but dasasdiksthithi is not the usual expression at all for "the ten directions". It also has a yoga meaning as a gaze or a vision, and is a 10th state two states below samadhi.

So the whole line appears to maybe be about a state of mirage from the 10th state of vision or gazing, which illuminates all of the world-systems, and this is when Kurukulla emerges (in the next line), and gives her bija initiation which makes the maricijala clear or understood.

Or (or maybe simultaneously, which is how a Chinese text would be read), she emerges out of the mirage and illuminates the ten visions, and establishes a seed, of the morning wind of the maricijala -- the watery mirage.

I have this thing, which I have mentioned before, the tan dancer/rainbow dancer, which is like a shivshakti -- in that the whole body of it is filled by the two, what is not tan dancer -- mirage, is rainbow dancer -- evanescent colors out of dew. It's in the top of my head, I have become it on occasion recently when managing to do the dissolve, decay, decompose thing. I also have this newly identified Ushas, who spins the threads of the net, and who both collaborates with and shares the jewel at my throat (this is very recent, last three nights) with Kurukulla. This collaboration gets to the point of sort of melding and "mixing hands" -- doing things where some of the hands are Kurukulla and some are Ushas and they all seem to come from the same place.

Last night they produced another plane, infinite and bound by red netting like the one at my palate, but much lighter and different, instead of the thick sweet cream or yogurt, it was made of light, and dipping a finger into it and letting it drip produced sound like either a pure tone or laughter.

There isn't supposed to be some connection between Kurukulla and Ushas, and the dancer is also involved. So this was why I latched onto the thing about the mirage, and did the "tea leaves" translation of vibhavayet as "morning wind". Also, Ushas has appeared floating in front of me at my throat jewel (where pretty much anything can appear), bathed in golden light, holding a staff of some kind, laughing. She was clothed -- which gave me a start when you mentioned the thing about kancuka.


This is for her initiation, or her Kamandalu Jala Abhiseka as mentioned previously, it is these Nagas as a Nyasa, after which there is a Purna Kumbha, which appears to use Twenty-one (syllables or praises?). Then the strange ending with the colors.

It perhaps means that Kurukulla adorns herself with the Nagas and then gets on a Garuda, since her form was described at the beginning, and this is the end. Because she said something about Vishnu, this would not be too surprising.


Also interesting.


The verse does not say she is dark red. And Kurukulla shows Trailokyavijaya (Bhutadamara) mudra on her Mayajala and Eight Arm forms. She is crucial to Sakya and considered secret and esoteric in Kagyu. Her attendants include Vajragandhari (consort of Yaksha general Candavajrapani) and Red Gauri. Hindus see her as Tara--Sundari--Matangi (the latter two being Aum and Om). She is similar to Siddhi sambhava, i. e. gives powers. Nyingma's red interpretation for this verse is compared to Vajravidarana, so, is not far from Red Vasudhara, called Vajravidarani. This one is also a Nepalese Dharani.

She seems very complex. Maybe it isn't that odd that she would pair with Ushas for something, and she is connected to more of what I see during shaking than just stuff at my throat or on my chest.

[shaberon]

The current "new one" has both pushed towards and indicated a high preference for being called Ushas. I can't find anything "post-Vedic" about Ushas, or Buddhist for that matter, except that Marici is sometimes identified as her wrathful aspect. So this has some bearing on my interest in that interpretation of maricijala --


First of all, very good, it is best we "delve" into Sanskrit on an academic and comparative basis--this being essentially the Gatekeepers of Dharmadhatu Vagisvara mandala, analysis and so forth. I am only "familiar" with it by way of repetition, have zero formal training or anything of the sort.

Ushas is, perhaps, a bit more "daybreak" than "last moment of darkness". She does, however, have a replete post-Vedic existence--she is known as Eos and Aurora. Savitri is the name which more specifically means "potential contained in darkness", however, it is perhaps arguable that Ushas is really Savitri, otherwise she would simply be the shakti of Surya. Savitri on the other hand is also connected to Indra and Tvastr.

Neither Ushas or Savitri is in Sadhanamala at all.

However, Ushas is also used in the Aranyaka metaphor of changing the literal Horse Sacrifice into a symbolic one:

"As a further development of the Brāhmaṇas however we get the Āraṇyakas or forest treatises. These works were probably composed for old men who had retired into the forest and were thus unable to perform elaborate sacrifices requiring a multitude of accessories and articles which could not be procured in forests. In these, meditations on certain symbols were supposed to be of great merit, and they gradually began to supplant the sacrifices as being of a superior order. It is here that we find that amongst a certain section of intelligent people the ritualistic ideas began to give way, and philosophic speculations about the nature of truth became gradually substituted in their place. To take an illustration from the beginning of the Bṛhadāranyaka we find that instead of the actual performance of the horse sacrifice (aśvamedha) there are directions for meditating upon the dawn (Uṣas) as the head of the horse, the sun as the eye of the horse, the air as its life, and so on. This is indeed a distinct advancement of the claims of speculation or meditation over the actual performance of the complicated ceremonials of sacrifice."

From "A History of Indian Philosophy" which is not set in one teaching, but for example has a major article involving Sita as Mahalakshmi (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/a-history-of-indian-philosophy-volume-3/d/doc209941.html).

In most of these schools, Phenomena are a Mirage. That is still the philosophy of Yogacara or Vijnana Vada, which the same book uses Lankavatara Sutra (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/a-history-of-indian-philosophy-volume-1/d/doc209754.html) in a manner that would appear to refute Shentong. Doesn't matter; it still has Paramartha, and yes we still agree it is comprehended only from a Nairatma view.

"All sense knowledge can be stopped only when the diverse unmanifested instincts of imagination are stopped (abhūta-parikalpa-vāsanā-vaicitra-nirodha). All our phenomenal knowledge is without any essence or truth (nihsvabhāva) and is but a creation of māyā, a mirage or a dream."

Jnana is the one real knowledge from which the other forms of knowledge derive, still pretty much the same as the Panacaratra or Mahalakshmi article, which is still written in a Vaisnava format anyway.

So I suppose if you control the Parikalpa--Vasana, you no longer imagine things about things, but are seeing how the process of Mirage works as a flow. That is probably quite highly important and relevant to what we would usually describe as First Void. Most religions as I understand them are enmeshed in this Pravritti, "forward into form", revel in the fact that some kind of Creator has "made stuff for us", whereas in philosophy, this is merely an incident and somewhat of a delusive agent, which is why Nirvritti or mental reversal of the process is of interest. "The Void" will spew stuff out of itself constantly, unless we can apply a set of brakes, and/or reposition it as a Dharmodaya, in which case we control what it makes.

Hindus seem to depict Ushas in a simple form, I am sure they would likely cringe if someone said she has Six Arms. They never use this with rare exceptions such as Dattatreya, because he is a fusion of the Trinity, like Pratyangira--who still usually only has four.

Perhaps you will get a type of tour on how Ushas gets six arms, and/or how our re-interpretation of her as Marici may fit.

I was also wondering when you describe Mandarava for example as flying, does this mean the raised leg or both raised legs pose, or does she move by other means?

It is possible in one of her retinues, Kurukulla may haul in the dawn or sun in some manner, but her main connections appear to be "born from Tara" and prequel to Hevajra Tantra. She does not pop up in a multitude of ways like Marici and Ekajati. So far, her six arm forms seem to be solo. She does have more independence than most other deities. It looks in the sadhanas like she has a trend of anchoring Karuna to Citta and that Emptiness Mantra is a huge conveyor of that.

In one area, she has the biggest cluster of "citta" in the book, is the only one that really deals with Trailokyavijaya, and her Svadisthana 183 describes Emptiness Mantra as:

tato dharmmapuḍgalayor grāhyagrāhakasvabhāvayor abhāva-
svabhāvām advayavijñaptilakṣaṇāṃ śūnyatāṃ vibhāvya tanmantreṇādhi-
tiṣṭhet - oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako 'ham iti /

That uses the two kinds of Nairatma, Dharma (selflessness of things) and Pudgala (selflessness of persons), and the expression for Grasper and Grasped.

Her simplest thing is Bali Offering 190, which can be an external ritual, or, it can be done internally:

gaṃ raṃ vaṃ yaṃ paṃ śaṃ caṃ ḍaṃ kurukulle sarvvaduṣṭān nāśaya
nāśaya kīlaya kīlaya bhañjaya bhañjaya marddaya marddaya dhvaṃsaya
dhvaṃsaya apasāraya apasāraya śāntiṃ me kuru puṣṭiṃ me kuru
abhimataṃ me kuru sarvvasattvān vaśyaṃ me kuru hrīḥ svāhā /
oṃ hrīṃ śrīṃ huṃ hoṃ haṃ hāḥ /

// kurukullālā balividhiḥ //

I would guess she does not really exist until you have some of the throat energy, but, she must go considerably beyond that, affecting the mind deeply. Her mandalas are almost frightening in their subtlety--at one point, she "doubles" Aparajita.


marīci-jālai daśadiksthithān sarvvalokadhātūn avabhāsya

I would take as Marici Jala pervades the ten directions in all worlds and dhatus with light (bhasya) coming from her/it.

"Ava" prefix usually means "from, away, off of, down from", but it has more meanings when joined to verbs such as Lokita: determination, diffusion/pervasion, support, purification, commanding, or knowledge, so I am pretty sure Ava Lokita Isvara is still not "Lord looking down from on high", since the "from" meaning applies mainly to nouns.

In that Diksthitha may have a more specific meaning in one of the schools, I did not know that. I think they are all teaching progressions of Samadhi. Some use different techniques because they have different goals, different methods of union and what is united to what. Regardless, it should all come in around 60-80% similarity to Buddhist Yoga, until a few of them can only be said to have "slight differences".

One brief article explains Savitri as the Bindu (https://sites.google.com/site/sadhanaguidance/concepts-1/significance-of-the-trimurti), and then explains why Brahma is not really worshipped, and equates Brahma with Marici, "details of the worlds". It is a "state" where one should see "the Lord": This is the ViShNu aspect of the trimUrti. It corresponds to sthiti in the triad of sRShTi, sthiti and pralaya. It then rips Vaisnavas who deny Shiva; and, paradoxically, Sita Upanishad refers to her as consort of Shiva.

Exactly how they tied Marici to Brahma, I am not sure; I did not know her name was used at all, outside of Buddhism. It would be meaningful if Marici was "only" the sun's ability to animate form, but I think our understanding of Marici, or Savitri or Usas, is above and beyond Surya or the visible sun of form. So we are still almost saying the same thing, just with a difficult game of musical chairs for the names. Any time you see an argument like this, there will be another that says it doesn't matter because it is all Vishnu.

Ushas is certainly the main Vedic goddess, and, in just about all Asian cultures, is accepted as synonymous to Marici, although it is near impossible to chronicle the transition.

[shaberon]

These were a couple other things I noticed.

In Sadhanamala, there are only a few instances of Cittamatra to be found. This is not necessarily "Mind-only" philosophy which Shentong would refute, it is a synonym for Vijnana Vada or Yogacara, meaning Yoga Practice. Chronologically, Shentong would be said to descend from Madhyamika Yogacara and Nirakara Vijnana Vada.

Uddiyana 179 says:

tad anu saṃsārasāgarapatita-
sattvadhātūddharaṇarūpaṃ bodhicittaṃ bibhartti / tataś caturbrahmavihāraṃ
bhāvayet / tad anu śūnyatābhāvanā / tatra cittamātram adhi-
tiṣṭhed anena mantreṇa, - oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako-
'ham / iti cittādhiṣṭhānam /

So she is saying Emptiness Mantra is Mind Isolation, which is the Consecration in her Cittamatra or Yoga Practice. There was Body Isolation of Buddha Family, then Speech Isolation mainly in Lotus Family and the Throat, and so now she is talking about the next phase, when Citta Chakra is involved with nectar penetrating it. Maybe that is the trick to Inverted Stupa. It is not a physical glyph, it is a Noumenal one. Citta Chakra is not what would physically look next, i. e. Heat from the Triangle rising in the body, it is a different state entirely, bodhicitta flowing from the Bindu, or, Head Bindu, etc., back downards to the heart.

Allright, well, Kurukulla is suspiciously close to the Hum Hoh of Vajra Rosary here. I believe that is what the real Citta Chakra is. It is not simply having a good feeling of positive energy there. Yes that is part of it. But the subtle one of Yoga is something else entirely.

Tarodbhava 171 has the heaviest repetition of "citta" in the book. She is:

kurukullaparvate

and she is evicting the five Skandhas with Five Offering Goddesses and Five Dance Goddesses:

puṣpadhūpatathādīpagandhanaivedyasañcayaiḥ /
lāsyamālyanṛtyagītavādyapūjādibhis tathā //

Refuge in the Three Jewels:

ratnatrayaṃ me śaraṇaṃ sarvaṃ pratidiśāmy agham /
anumode jagatpuṇyaṃ buddhabodhau dadhe manaḥ /
iti mantraṃ tridhā vācyaṃ tataḥ kṣantavyam ity api //
tatreyaṃ gāthā -
yat kṛtaṃ duṣkṛtaṃ kiñcit mayā mūḍhadhiyā punaḥ /
kṣantavyaṃ tat tvayā devi yatas trātā'si dehinām //

Cittas of the Four Brahmavihara:

cittaṃ maitrī vihāre [ca] niveṣṭavyam punas tadā /
karuṇācittam utpādyaṃ pramodicittam āvahet //
paścād upekṣate sarvaṃ cittamātravyavasthayā /

Citta of Void:

cittaṃ śūnyaṃ tataḥ kuryāt prakṛtākārahānaye //
śūnyatāvāhinā dagdhā pañcaskandhāḥ punar bhavāḥ /
[paṭhitvā] oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako 'ham //
muhūrtaṃ śūnyatāyogaṃ kuryāt cittasya viśramam /
pratijñāṃ prāktanīṃ smṛtvā bījamātraṃ punaḥ smaret //
pratāritā mayā sattvā ekāntaparinirvṛtāḥ /
kathaṃ tān uddhariṣyāmi agādhād bhavasāgarāt //
iti sattvakṛpāviṣṭo niśceṣṭāṃ śūnyatāṃ tyajet /
dharmadhātumayaṃ cittam utpādayati cetasā //

Ending with a Dharmadhatu Maya Citta.


Although I cannot really ascertain the origin of "Marici" as a Buddhist name of Savitri, they are close enough in meaning and, I think, to say that Ushas, at worst, is simply an older name wherein perhaps the Brahman caste hid the idea she was also the potential in darkness.

We can say that "under" Surya, there are two Samjnas, and that his sheared-off rays are likely the brilliance of Tapas as intended by Vairocani who happens to be mixed-up in the ancestry.

We would say there are Two Fires, a Seven Ray manifestation characterized by Marici, and a transcendental Three-in-One characterized by Agni.

Savitri's Vyahriti or Words of Fire are the names of the planes in chanting form. "Bhur" = Bhu, and so on, except the last works differently:

Om Bhur, Om Bhuvar, Om Svahar, Om Mahar, Om Janar, Om Tapar, Om Satyam

Mahar = Maha Loka = Mahabharata = Kama Loka.

Above this is Jana = Manasic or Akashic plane, Tapa which I believe is Tapas is the Buddhic plane, and Satya is the Atmic Plane, which means Prime Motion, Great Breath which does not cease even in Pralaya.

So I have not differentiated the Hindu versions from our Marici, and, it is the sneakiest boomerang return possible, to employ Puranic Vairocani.

I cannot really say Ushas "is" Marici, I just cannot distinguish them. If I honored Marici in the fullest way I know, it would evolve into an Agni Homa. One could perhaps argue that the real, self-arisen Marici requires Bhutadamara, or, its equivalent, Trailokyavijaya Mudra. It would probably take her samaya being, and this equivalent force.

It would not be a different "source" than Ushas, it would be different mantras and so on.

I am not sure why Marici would be part of Brahma; but Vairocana is Brahma, who "is not worshipped". He appears to be at first, then moves into the Earth plane, and other things happen, until he arises as Maha Vajradhatu, which means full Sambhogakaya. Marici is mainly related to Vairocana.

Vairocana has sort of stuffed the visible sun into the physical body. There is a bit more to it, but, this is the "Entrance to Nirvana", sort of like Sambhogakaya is the Exit.

[Old Student]

Hindus seem to depict Ushas in a simple form, I am sure they would likely cringe if someone said she has Six Arms. They never use this with rare exceptions such as Dattatreya, because he is a fusion of the Trinity, like Pratyangira--who still usually only has four.

Perhaps you will get a type of tour on how Ushas gets six arms, and/or how our re-interpretation of her as Marici may fit.

She has had two pretty much the whole time. It was the one eventually identified as Cunda who had the six arms. The thing that is very incompatible of her is that until she did the whole thing with Kurukulla and appeared in front of me, she had always been in Vajrayana holding and pulling thread with a face that had the Buddha's "noble silence" smile. I know this very well because when she held and did not move (just held the thread still) she would push my face into that face. She still does that.


I was also wondering when you describe Mandarava for example as flying, does this mean the raised leg or both raised legs pose, or does she move by other means?

Both, I had been identifying the one raised leg as her pose and the other leg raised behind as her "full" pose in my notes. I am sure there is a reason why she uses one or the other, but I have not discerned it yet.


To take an illustration from the beginning of the Bṛhadāranyaka we find that instead of the actual performance of the horse sacrifice (aśvamedha) there are directions for meditating upon the dawn (Uṣas) as the head of the horse, the sun as the eye of the horse, the air as its life, and so on.

The two of them worked on my neck and throat before she did the appearance in front of me. The neck part is very much "leathery" and has horse connections, so much so that I went on a long side thing looking for connections to Hayagriva.

I'm not surprised that Kurukulla and Ushas have no connection in the literature. The connection in my neck is that they both have some claims over the jewel at my throat which is part of the net. Ushas spins the threads that go between the jewels. Kurukulla seems more directly connected to the jewel.


I would guess she does not really exist until you have some of the throat energy, but, she must go considerably beyond that, affecting the mind deeply. Her mandalas are almost frightening in their subtlety--at one point, she "doubles" Aparajita.

She usually marshals my whole body, often with a movement that I described in my notes as a cross between the Wave Hands Like Clouds from Taijiquan and the entry into the crane position in Changquan. Big circular sweeps ending in a drawn bow. Once she pushes from within her position the throat at the jewel pushes out and glows.


I would take as Marici Jala pervades the ten directions in all worlds and dhatus with light (bhasya) coming from her/it.

"Ava" prefix usually means "from, away, off of, down from", but it has more meanings when joined to verbs such as Lokita: determination, diffusion/pervasion, support, purification, commanding, or knowledge, so I am pretty sure Ava Lokita Isvara is still not "Lord looking down from on high", since the "from" meaning applies mainly to nouns.

My dictionary takes the whole construct as "to be illumined" in the infinitive like that. I did not know quite what to make of it.


In that Diksthitha may have a more specific meaning in one of the schools, I did not know that. I think they are all teaching progressions of Samadhi. Some use different techniques because they have different goals, different methods of union and what is united to what. Regardless, it should all come in around 60-80% similarity to Buddhist Yoga, until a few of them can only be said to have "slight differences".

I can only add one thing to this, coming from asking someone with some Sanskrit background and native in some modern Indian languages -- they say Diksthitha is the Sanskrit word from which the modern words "to see" are derived, e.g. dekna in modern Hindi.


One brief article explains Savitri as the Bindu,...

I wonder why I saw them upside down from this, the bindu below the chandra.

This is out of order, but about her being the dawn and not the time before -- she rises in the dark of night and puts on her clothes (which are somehow related to the net of color she throws out before riding out as the dawn).

[Old Student]

kurukullaparvate

Kurukulla born of the mountains?


Although I cannot really ascertain the origin of "Marici" as a Buddhist name of Savitri, they are close enough in meaning and, I think, to say that Ushas, at worst, is simply an older name wherein perhaps the Brahman caste hid the idea she was also the potential in darkness.

I had read that she "works with Savitri" as if it is something she uses in her work to create the dawn. I have also read that she weaves the dawn.


I cannot really say Ushas "is" Marici, I just cannot distinguish them. If I honored Marici in the fullest way I know, it would evolve into an Agni Homa. One could perhaps argue that the real, self-arisen Marici requires Bhutadamara, or, its equivalent, Trailokyavijaya Mudra. It would probably take her samaya being, and this equivalent force.

There's some reason why she preferred that name, and it is possibly related to throwing off a being made of sandstone (which looked like a cubist interpretation of The Thing from Fantastic Four) which was restraining either her or my ability to see her.

[shaberon]

The neck part is very much "leathery" and has horse connections, so much so that I went on a long side thing looking for connections to Hayagriva.

In Hayagriva I believe we have hidden the Aswins.

Horse Sacrifice is one thing that used to be literal that was changed somewhere around Yajnawalkya's time--but by Horse Head Rite this means the secret of getting the Nectar of Immortality from Tvastr who is or who chiefly operates as Viswakarman in the Second Kama Loka or Heaven of Thirty-three.

That one seems obviously important in an occult sense, but, how are you going to get there?

First there are Four Kings watching the material world, and, what does one do about Kubera?

Is he not a bit related to Sri Venkateswara who receives lakhs of donations every day resulting in a governmental inquiry as to when his debt could possibly be paid?

I believe that by having him Oath-bound it means the Buddhist Yoga will work on him and there is not that much to it.

Hayagriva is firstly very loud and secondly is probably a Teevra Devata or akin to Kilaya. Probably Rajas of Rajas. Not one that has a friendly daily chant like Manjushri. I really just...I watch it when saying anything about him. If I was making a list of things that I would suggest people not just pick up the books and personally attempt, Hayagriva would be part of that.

It is a very outright Wrathful Lotus presence which seems a bit mind-boggling compared to what we usually think of as Karuna.




I'm not surprised that Kurukulla and Ushas have no connection in the literature. The connection in my neck is that they both have some claims over the jewel at my throat which is part of the net. Ushas spins the threads that go between the jewels. Kurukulla seems more directly connected to the jewel.

Sounds reasonable. The solar and/or Vairocani aspect "may" be thought of as vertical rays like sun rays, penetrating Varnani the woof or layers the rays permeate. Perhaps even better, you can internalize that, one is supposed to have some kind of inner light.



Parvate appears as an individual word with Janguli, as well as conjoined to Kurukulla.

As a noun, this appears to say, "Kurukulla resides on Kurukulla Mountain":

kurukullaparvatasthitakurukullāṃ

her other phrase was:

sahādidhātukaṃ śodhya kurukullaparvate gatām //

Saha and other Dhatus are Purified by Her Completely

Or, as Koothoomi actually wrote, Saha Loka Dhatu:

Also called the Saha World. It refers to the land on Earth. Saha interprets as bearing and enduring. Saha Land is contrary to Pure Land. It is a place of good and evil. A universe where all are subjected to transmigration and in which a Buddha transforms.

I am not sure whether she is Kurukulla Mountain Daughter, or Kurukulla Parvati. Because Janguli has Parvati as well as Mahayogeshvari, it is another title of Shiva's wife, I cannot say much other than she was portrayed as a Yogini or Nirmanakaya, and maybe she became fully realized within Parvati. Like others "became" Jnana Dakini or Varahi. Tulkus are not Avatars. They have a beginning, and when they reincarnate, there is always a new struggle of that person realizing the Bodhi mind that is strongly connected to them. In rare cases very young children can do it. In other cases, it is not even certain the personality ever really connects deep enough to their Klista Manas or continuity-of-consciousness to really represent the Bodhisattva at all.

Those deities are stable with Akanistha as their lowest emanation. Anything else is their ability to reflect into the world by successful disciples.

Kurukulla is doing Body Isolation, and yes circular motion torquing into a drawn bow makes sense. Like a vortex or drill. It sounds like you are talking about one big one, which would "gear down" something like 10,000 to one to affect mostly one point.

It is like you have One, and then you have an Assembly, of these torquing motors.

I do not use a big one very often, but they are in my palms and soles most of the time.

I would not be able to "aim" it as precisely as what Kurukulla is doing here. It is like finding something in a distant telescope, and stacking magnifying lenses until you get it big enough.




This is out of order, but about her being the dawn and not the time before -- she rises in the dark of night and puts on her clothes (which are somehow related to the net of color she throws out before riding out as the dawn).

That is interesting because it sounds like an "Unstruck Color" similar to Unstruck Sound.

If Marici "works with" someone, then it sounds like she is the Noumenal aspect of Shakti power. She may have to, since nothing has ever said she comes lower than Akanistha. She has samaya beings, but, I am not sure they really express solar power as such.

The closest I can come is if I press the inquiry that Suci--Needle is the same name of Suci--Agni Solar Fire.

I would still ask about the Needle as the Avadhut as well.

But you are perceiving it as Ushas perhaps related to Cunda.

It sounds perfectly clear. We want to give her...dark quiet side...a type of continuity through her Three Times, i. e. Dawn, Noon, and Evening. I believe this is called Maturity, She has to have Protection and so forth and her colors will Ripen. Three Face Vasudhara is doing the same thing. If Vajravarahi "is a form of" Marici, and, she is also an aspect of Bhu--Vasudhara, and yellow, red, and orange faces can help us keep this together, the relation seems pretty evident.

This is while still saying that the syllable Hum is the universal solar Om radiance transmitted through a manifested individual and reflected from the Underworld.



Manjushri--Prajnaparamita had a puzzling term, Dhihsthitha.

I wonder if the recent word also meanig "to see", etc., is perhaps the compound Diksa (wisdomlib.org/definition/diksa) Sthita? Place or residence of initiation. That was kind of the sense I got from Dhihsthitha.

Mandarava is usually not, but "is allowed to be shown" in raised-foot pose according to the Himalayan Art site.

In our heritage there are hardly any "two feet up" besides Maitri Dakini. This one seems more highly adjoined to the, I suppose you could say, progressive elements of Vajrayogini, closer to Cinnamasta. Also Maitri used a focused basket of sadhanas using a form of Seven Syllable deity as well as Vajramrita.

I would expect Mandarava not to have any difficulty with the equivalent realization of Maitri Dakini even if someone were to argue the sadhana was not composed until two centuries after her. I do not see that as a barrier.

[Old Student]

Hayagriva is firstly very loud and secondly is probably a Teevra Devata or akin to Kilaya. Probably Rajas of Rajas. Not one that has a friendly daily chant like Manjushri. I really just...I watch it when saying anything about him. If I was making a list of things that I would suggest people not just pick up the books and personally attempt, Hayagriva would be part of that.

I had kind of given up on him being a part of things, the leathery thing does feel like a horse shaking its mane, but it serves an entirely different purpose which is to make the skin and muscles of my neck turn clear like glass.


I am not sure whether she is Kurukulla Mountain Daughter, or Kurukulla Parvati.

Either works for me, I just had not thought she had a connection to mountains.


Kurukulla is doing Body Isolation, and yes circular motion torquing into a drawn bow makes sense. Like a vortex or drill. It sounds like you are talking about one big one, which would "gear down" something like 10,000 to one to affect mostly one point.

It is like you have One, and then you have an Assembly, of these torquing motors.

Earlier in life I did practice the crane pose a lot, and the Wave Hands Like Clouds is something I do whenever, sort of. So there isn't a big problem with accuracy for me, they are part of muscle memory. Or maybe this move is the underlying memory that they are part of, it would be hard to tell.


That is interesting because it sounds like an "Unstruck Color" similar to Unstruck Sound.

If Marici "works with" someone, then it sounds like she is the Noumenal aspect of Shakti power. She may have to, since nothing has ever said she comes lower than Akanistha. She has samaya beings, but, I am not sure they really express solar power as such.

The closest I can come is if I press the inquiry that Suci--Needle is the same name of Suci--Agni Solar Fire.

I would still ask about the Needle as the Avadhut as well.

But you are perceiving it as Ushas perhaps related to Cunda.

It sounds perfectly clear. We want to give her...dark quiet side...a type of continuity through her Three Times, i. e. Dawn, Noon, and Evening. I believe this is called Maturity, She has to have Protection and so forth and her colors will Ripen. Three Face Vasudhara is doing the same thing. If Vajravarahi "is a form of" Marici, and, she is also an aspect of Bhu--Vasudhara, and yellow, red, and orange faces can help us keep this together, the relation seems pretty evident.

The maturity thing is definitely right -- she mourns previous dawns, and originally was only spoken of in plural, and apparently she thinks wistfully of those among men who watched each dawn now that they (the men) are dead and gone.

I found this site (https://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/rigveda/usha_1.asp) which has a complete set of translations of all the hymns to Ushas in the Rig Veda.

She doesn't have a dark part, when she first takes to the sky, she walks hand in hand with her sister, Ratri (night), and that is how the dark and light combine. The first rays of light come from her breasts, like milk from cows.

The pic at the site is a little odd, it is Hayagriva and Ushas, and has something to do with Hayagriva freeing Brahman, I am unfamiliar with the myth referenced.


This is while still saying that the syllable Hum is the universal solar Om radiance transmitted through a manifested individual and reflected from the Underworld.

Sigh. The Underworld. I just spent some hours last night burning on a funeral pyre. Here are the relevant notes, the idea that I was "burning and dripping" occurred to me at points, I spent slightly more than an hour afterwards with my skin burning so bad that it felt like each individual hair on my torso was a point of scratching and pain.


I was now myself and inside myself, and I was in a space that was long and possibly cylindrical like a corridor or a tunnel and this shape around me was heating me and burning me. At this point my vision and my sense of self – both becoming problematic because there was nothing “body” about the shapes I was apparently incorporated – split and were both entirely separate and simultaneously “superimposed” and part of the same scene. One vision and incorporation was of something like red and brown burning wood, except that the red did not appear to be glow, and I tried repeatedly to see if it was glow, but in shapes longer than wide breaking the way wood breaks with sharp edges and splinters, and then recombining into other wood and breaking and moving and turning again and again like a large space of short thick wood beams with red in them where they should be glowing because they very much were burning – as in hot to the touch – but the color of the glow was off and didn’t make sense. As they churned and splintered and burned, my body, mostly if not entirely my clear body but with some connections back so not completely, was moving and thrusting and shoving – arms and legs now flailing but still in the same thrust into the lute repeatedly but unable to be observed because I was this burning wood and the movements of the wood fit perfectly with the movements of my clear body.
The other vision of myself, superimposed and also very strong and clear, was as a sort of grimy distillate in a bowl that was invisible, the bowl shape being the “boundary” between the two visions. The liquid was clear with a black layer that floated inside the clear oily liquid like a charred colloidal layer. As the wood visioned burned, more of the distillate would drip from it into this bowl shape but the two were not arranged in the two visions as one dripping into the other, rather they were superimposed and distinct visions. In the brown world of the red and brown wood, I was burning quite suredly but also thrusting in the cast iron vision of my clear body in the lute, in the invisible bowl world of the oily distillate someone, who was also me but was a manifestation or embodiment of one or more Dakinis, was swirling the oily drippings looking for a pearl or a bead or some other indication that I had been a saint – in other words, this was a funeral pyre and we were in a charnel grounds looking for relics of my existence as I burned away to nothing. This continued, both all-consuming bliss feeling and blistering feelings of burning and dripping away to nothing, for quite some time and then there was somebody (all the somebodies were at once Dakinis and me, my “boundaries” weren’t there for most of the funeral) with a huge, long pair of chopsticks dipping into the bowl of hot oil and char and pulling out “pieces” and setting them to “drain” in front of me like bacon. These “pieces” were each one of the police outline drawing bodies of – again -- me, all of them came out dark and dripping and all of them drained and dried to the outline bodies completely covered, cocooned with maybe these drawing shapes being the cocoons, with whitish, bluish, and purplish sparks and lightning.
After this went on for some time, I focused in on one of the sparky cocoons and then my crown point pulled my neck very straight and pulled the jewel at my throat in and upwards under and I “internalized” the sparky cocoon as the same color sparks descending through my ribcage from a source in my throat and head near but under and above the root of my tongue, descending in garland like streams to form a tent shape going into a cylinder of sparks down along my centerline through my ribcage to the bottom of it and dripping into a large body of water that was my abdomen at this point.


The Dakinis were sifting through the greasy remains to look for relics (the jewels or drops) and as far as I know, didn't find any.

[shaberon]

I had kind of given up on him being a part of things, the leathery thing does feel like a horse shaking its mane, but it serves an entirely different purpose which is to make the skin and muscles of my neck turn clear like glass.

I would not expect he has much to do with the neck per se--more like Cinnamasta.

Hayagriva is special to Sera Monastery.

He appears in the upper echelon of many retinues, such as, at least one version of Book of the Dead says for the Heart, which has its own set of Gatekeepers--Males and Females in Union--these are Achala-Ankusha, Yamantaka-Pasha, Hayagriva-Shrinkhala, and Amritakundali-Ghanta. These are doing the Four Activities, Hook, Noose, Chain, and Bell.



In Mahavairocana Abhisambodhi Tantra, Buddha says we should do the Fierce Rites on the 8th or 14th day of the New Moon with Saturn or Mars in the Lunar Mansions Hasta, Citra, Asvini, Uttara-phalguni, Punar-vasu, Svati.

One becomes Vajrasattva, takes possession of the rite with Acala, and becomes Vairocana. Then crafts the mandala, placing Ha, which becomes Trilokyavijaya.

Yama becomes his spear, replacing Akasha-garbha. Other elements transmute into the Axe, Aparajita; Amogha-pasha, Ekajati, Hayagriva as Noose, Axe, Mace replacing Tara, Candra-tilaka is the Vajra, Yama + Kalaratri replace the Pure Abode, Nirtti is the Sword.

One then becomes Vajrapani, makes offerings, and then becomes Maha Vairocana. A Wind mandala with Hum is placed at the hearth. Hum becomes Agni whose body image is Acala. Offer to Agni and invoke: Om Agnaye Jati Trat Hum Phat. After ritual procedures establishing Agni, one brings back the tutelary deity and purifies with bodhichitta. Wrathful fires of Agni are thus available to one's ordinary Yi-dam Lha on an everyday basis instead of just the special occasions.

He specifically says Kalaratri replaces the Pure Lands that would be used in a Peaceful rite.

That is why I keep calling her Sambhogakaya Sister. She obviously does not represent it in terms we normally think. She is like an equivalent energy on a dark and wrathful basis.

As to what has been called Body Isolation and the rest:

In Mahayoga, the five transcendent sadhanas are Manjushri Yamantaka (enlightened form), Padma Hayagriva (enlightened speech), Visuddha (enlightened mind), Vajramrta Mahottara (enlightened qualities), and Vajrakllaya (enlightened activity).

Vajrapani can emit Hayagriva and Garuda.

Hayagriva's consort is usually thought of as Vajravarahi or perhaps Vetali.

In trying to sort the "jumble of legend":

Konchog Bang is a Tibetan name of an Indian king ca. 9th-10th century, influenced by Vimala Guru and Guhyajnana Dakini (White with a drum). This Dakini is also Hayagriva's consort, and appears with Jinasagara Avalokiteshvara, wherein sometimes Guru Rinpoche is replaced by an Indian tantrika named Siddhirajni (Machig Drupa'i Gyalmo), a Niguma-like figure, Red with a drum. Both Dakini and Guru may be Red or White. Hers is not even a name, but a title, "Sole Mother Queen of the Siddhas", which was given to Mandarava. She was a teacher of Rechung, the founder of Shangpa.

Tiphupa was another teacher of Rechung and gave the Kagyu lineage the "nine-fold cycle of the formless Dakinis". Siddharajni's only biography is in that of Rechung. Tiphupa composed a song to her. He calls her Vajravarahi, Vajrayogini, and Pandaravasini and says she met Vajradhara, Chakrasamvara, Avalokiteshvara, Hayagriva, all the dakinis of the sacred sites, and Simhamukha. She has a skullcup and knife. She is also shown with dorje, bell, and third eye. She transmitted the Padmanarta--Guhyajnana meditation, wherein the Four Arm form is the beginning and Two Arm is secret practice. She calls the fact that anger is baseless, Hayagriva, and that desire has no root, Ghuyajnana.

It just does not look chronologically that Mandarava was in the same era as Rechung. It does seem to be accepted that Niguma was a Mandarava incarnation. Perhaps that is who they are talking about. Siddharajni is both of them and others.

Ocean Victor Avalokiteshvara personally contains Hayagriva and Guhyajnana.

It is explained fairly well in Lord of the Dance about the Mani Rimdu festival. Jinasagara Avalokiteshvara is Lord of the Dance, he contains Hayagriva, who contains Contemplation Hero. Around them are Four Dakas, and the gates have four female Tramenma or animal-headed deities--the Four Activities. Six Syllable Avalokiteshvara as a Karmapa Yidam introduced by Rechung, is lord of the dance of compassion or incarnation, and has nothing inherently to do with a dance festival. In Nepal, he is Padmanartesvara. He tosses a syllable of his mantra into each of the six realms, preventing rebirth there. In this sadhana, Guhyajnana is Avalokiteshvara's consort. Hayagriva has an unnamed light red one with two hands holding knife and skull.

Nagarjuna's Khadira Tara lineage went to First Karmapa Dusum Khyenpa. His sadhana set was Tara, Hayagriva, Vajravarahi, Chakrasamvara and Hevajra. The transmission lineage for all except the last one are still extant in the Kamtsang tradition. This tantra has always held a special place in the Kamtsang Kagyu tradition; it was transmitted from Nagarjuna, through one of his four principal disciples, Nagabodhi, in an unbroken transmission until it became part of the Kamtsang lineage of realisation at the time of Karmapa Wangchuk Dorje.

Vajravarahi is Tara who became Vajravarahi when Chenrezig became Tamdrin, "Horse neck" (Hayagriva), to defeat Matrankaru, and they succeeded with their horse and pig voices without violence. She is Sera Kandro and Indra Dakini. All brides are "potential Vajravarahi", i. e. potential unlocking of the powers of the male. This story was originally reported by Sarat Chandra Das (https://www.amazon.com.au/Journey-Lhasa-Central-Tibet-Chandra/dp/1150648279). It has to do with Mahakala and Samding Dorje Phagmo.

That actually says Avalokiteshvara's consort Tara (Pandara) becomes Vajravarahi. So there must be one Varahi in Lotus Family. The main two Lotus Wrathfuls are Hayagriva and Vajravarahi Cintamani.


As for the Hindu original, he defeated two Rakshashas who had stolen the Vedas from Brahma, very short and simple event prior to times of incarnation. Brahma himself was saved by doing Tapas.

Matangi's Thousand Names is the only one of its kind which does not repeat anything; it is a dialogue between Hayagriva and Agastya in Brahmanda Purana. All others were collected by Vyasa, this is the only one delivered by Vach Devis.

There is not much to Hindu Hayagriva unless we think in terms of Horse Head rite. It is not about him, but, as to the symbol, it probably is.





She doesn't have a dark part, when she first takes to the sky, she walks hand in hand with her sister, Ratri (night), and that is how the dark and light combine. The first rays of light come from her breasts, like milk from cows.


I cannot think of anything that shows her darkly except Picuva Marici's main face.

I suppose it is just a metaphysical definition that her potential exists during times of darkness or un-manifestation, just as there is still night when the sun is shining on us.

Dharmadhatu is the Source of All Phenomena--Nirvana and Samsara.

In Shentong we weave between all those extremes.

I have never seen any type of dawn deity other than illumination of light. Meaning Astral Light and then that intended by Gnosis. I have certainly experienced light not produced by physical means.

The report does sound the least bit like Vajradakini getting through to Bharati as the last part:

"...my crown point pulled my neck very straight and pulled the jewel at my throat in and upwards under and I “internalized” the sparky cocoon as the same color sparks descending through my ribcage from a source in my throat and head near but under and above the root of my tongue, descending in garland like streams to form a tent shape going into a cylinder of sparks down along my centerline through my ribcage to the bottom of it and dripping into a large body of water that was my abdomen at this point."

Water is not quite the substance sought by the sadhana, but at least it sounds like a cool liquid. More drips should probably change it.

[shaberon]

Rechung was in the 1100s, so could not conceivably been a disciple of Mandarava.

The Formless Dakini teachings of his are insisted by critics to properly be named Bodyless Dakini, and that it is mainly a metaphor for the Dharmakaya. Classically, Bodyless would be Videha and also refer to Kama Deva/Ananga.

Rechung is part of the Whispered Lineage which in Tibetan is Nyan Gyud, or otherwise Karna Tantra, as seen in a Vajrasattva (http://www.budcon.com/bn/index.php/Vajrasattva_tantra_by_Vladimir_Montlevich) article, stating that Vajrasattva tantra was established prior to Guhyasamaja, and that it "is" Nyingma tantra, or, he really is the primary Yidam in Guhyagarbha or Vajrasattva Maya Jala.

There are two published streams on the subject:

Secret Dakini of Naro (https://www.academia.edu/40437668/Extremely_Secret_Dakini_of_Naropa) is the Pabonkha version.

Bodyless Dakini (http://www.pktc.org/pktc/books/BodylessDakini.htm) is the Drukpa version.

The Drukpa version is passed through the somewhat famous story of Tilo (https://www.dailyom.com/cgi-bin/display/librarydisplay.cgi?lid=840), and Marpa (https://www.lotusspeech.ca/lineages/rechung-kagyu-lineage/), in a complicated way with Tiphu.

A description of the Bodyless (http://chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Bodyless_Dakini_Dharma) version specifies the wisdom dakinis are not involved with samsaric delusion, and:

The Thorough Explanation commentary in this book mentions a number of them as it carefully identifies the Bodyless Dakini. The names of these various forms of Vajrayogini might not be well-know to non-Tibetan readers but they are all well-known within Tibetan tradition. There is another form of Vajrayogini who is mentioned frequently in this book. She has a small sow's head on her head. "Sow" in Sanskrit is "varahi" so this form of Vajrayogini is called "Vajravarahi". Pigs are symbols of ignorance and the sow's head of Vajravarahi is a symbol of vajra ignorance. In this case, the sow does not represent that the ignorance of samsara per se has been overcome but represents the vajra ignorance of reality. Vajravarahi is regarded as the inner aspect of the more general Vajrayogini, an aspect which is more closely connected with both sambhoga and dharmakayas. The Bodyless Dakini is similar to Vajravarahi in this respect but not the same. Vajravarahi is part of the general iconography of Vajrayogini where the Bodyless Dakini is a specific form of Vajrayogini used for practice. Vajravarahi is often used as a personification of the female aspect of reality and in this book she is mostly used in that sense. For example, Tilopa received many teachings from ultimate space in both male and female aspects. He received the Chakrasamvara teachings from Chakrasamvara as the male embodiment of the ultimate space and the vajradakini teachings from Vajravarahi as the female embodiment of that space. In this book, Vajravarahi mostly refers to that kind of embodiment functioning as a teacher.

Pabonkha's version is a Gelug overhaul of the Thirteen Golden Dharmas of Sakya with Naro Dakini, Kurukulla, Bharati, etc.

Here is a segment of Five Dakinis Offering in Vajradhara Guru Yoga (https://khentrulrinpoche.com/practice/materials/dzokden-guru-puja/6/) which adds mandala components; Videha is one of the terms use in describing the surroundings of Mt. Meru. So, mnemonically at the very least, this term is already tied in. I believe it is ok to start thinking about the "parts" as shown here. A full mandala is built and then populated. I think it is fine if we are just asking Guru to help us figure out the bulwark.

There is very little that is directly said about a Dharmakaya Vajrayogini, or the Citta Chakra.

Vajrayogini Commentary (https://fpmt.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2012/12/VajrayoginiPomaia.pdf) by H. E. Serkong Rinpoche is quite good and describes it this way:



When the body of the BAM dissolves to the top line of the letter, imagine that you
experience the mirage-like vision that happens at the time of death. When the line
dissolves to the moon, imagine that you are having the smoke-like vision, and think that
the mirage-like appearance has ceased and the spark-like experience will come next.
When the moon dissolves to the dot, feel that you are experiencing the spark-like vision,
and think that previously there was the smoke vision and subsequently there will be the
butter lamp vision. When the dot dissolves into the nada, imagine experiencing the butter
lamp vision and think that previously there was the spark vision and afterwards there will
be the white vision. If we were actually dying, at this point we would no longer be
breathing. The squiggle has three curves. When the bottom of the squiggle dissolves up
to the first curve, there is the white vision. When the squiggle dissolves from the first to
the second curve, there is the red vision. When it dissolves up to the third curve, there is
the black vision. When the tiny tip which is left at the black vision finally disappears,
there is the clear light experience.

Again, think:

1. It is the clear light with no appearance. Everything is bare and void.

2. This is not ordinary bareness or voidness, but it is voidness of true existence. The
aggregates and the I do not exist as one or many; therefore, the I is void of
existing from its own side. This absence of appearance is the voidness of true
existence.

3. The consciousness which experiences this is the consciousness of great bliss.

4. This consciousness of great bliss and the voidness which is its object are
inseparable, like water mixed in water. In this consciousness of great bliss, which
is inseparable from its object, voidness, set the dignity of the Dharmakaya. This
is taking death as the pathway to the Dharmakaya.

After experiencing the clear light of death, the energy wind becomes grosser and you
immediately achieve the bardo. If you are going to be reborn as a human being, the bardo
body achieved under the power of delusion and karma is the same shape and form as the
human body you will have. What purifies this or eliminates experiencing the bardo under
the force of delusion and karma are the pathways of the complete stage of the impure and
pure illusory body. What will ripen into the ability to attain this on the complete stage are
the practices on the generation stage which are similar to the actual bardo. The way the
bardo is attained is that the subtlest consciousness acts as the simultaneously occurring
condition for the attainment of the bardo and the finest energy wind which is the vehicle
of the finest consciousness is the material cause for the attainment of the bardo.

To take death as the pathway to the Dharmakaya, in the generation stage you dissolve
everything into the clear light. This is artificial, by intellect or names, because it is
imagined by visualization. Within the sphere of the clear light of voidness, one should
wish to benefit other sentient beings and so one develops the wish to arise as the
sambhogakaya. Rather than going from death to bardo, you want to go to the
sambhogakaya. The finest consciousness which has the understanding of the
inseparability of voidness and bliss is the simultaneously occurring cause and the material
cause from which the sambhogakaya is actualized (instead of actualizing the bardo body)
is the finest energy wind which is inseparable from the finest consciousness. In the
generation stage, one imagines arising from the clear light as a red BAM which rises and
is positioned vertically in air. On this red BAM set the dignity “I am the sambhogakaya.”

He has about fifty pages in this explanation, which is fairly direct, explaining how this meditation is death-like in practice, and also applies at the time of death.

So the Sow is really ignorance about this. It is not about ordinary life at all.

Perhaps it is becoming obvious why I hold her in reticent esteem.

[Old Student]

This Dakini is also Hayagriva's consort, and appears with Jinasagara Avalokiteshvara, wherein sometimes Guru Rinpoche is replaced by an Indian tantrika named Siddhirajni (Machig Drupa'i Gyalmo), a Niguma-like figure, Red with a drum. Both Dakini and Guru may be Red or White. Hers is not even a name, but a title, "Sole Mother Queen of the Siddhas", which was given to Mandarava. She was a teacher of Rechung, the founder of Shangpa.

Machig Drupa'i Gyalmo is Mandarava's title, Padmasambhava uses it in some texts. Red doesn't sound like Niguma who is almost unerringly brown -- thought to have been browned by living in the charnel grounds. Interesting if that is who Siddharajni refers to. She is supposed to appear, embody, incarnate or otherwise teach when people with an affinity for siddhis need to be drawn to the Dharma.


It just does not look chronologically that Mandarava was in the same era as Rechung. It does seem to be accepted that Niguma was a Mandarava incarnation. Perhaps that is who they are talking about. Siddharajni is both of them and others.


Mandarava was 7th century. Niguma, it's possible but she would have been very old, she is Naro's sister. Agreed she is a Mandarava incarnation.


Vajravarahi is Tara who became Vajravarahi when Chenrezig became Tamdrin, "Horse neck" (Hayagriva), to defeat Matrankaru, and they succeeded with their horse and pig voices without violence.

This is why I kind of gave up on Hayagriva, my neck never does this -- the only voice I have emitted is that of an eagle, not a horse. It is silent, but birds in the yard appear to be able to hear it somehow.


Water is not quite the substance sought by the sadhana, but at least it sounds like a cool liquid. More drips should probably change it.

Those were paragraphs out of the notes, not the whole notes, sorry to give a wrong impression. What happens after that is that this dripping/sparking allows enough of a human body (my clear body in this case) to form that the Dakinis can identify (as in the para, they are already there, they are going through the greasy remains of me), I remain on fire for quite a while after. They are: Kurukulla -- when she pressed me downward into her form in detail, I am already "red" from burning and I just completely press into her, fangs and all. Ekajati goes next and she changes the flow, the pool of water pushing it upward and setting it on fire again. Followed by Ushas, who starts a sequence of "handoffs", she hands me off to Cunda, who hands me off to Samantabhadri, these smooth things so that the downward flow, still all lightning and sparks, becomes like hot wax gushing over from a candle. I spend the next hour burning up in my physical body to the point where my skin on fire makes all the hairs on my torso painful as they scratch against it -- really physically hot, all over but mostly my torso and neck. I have by that time learned to start the downward spark flow, this is my only defense against the burning. After the hour, the downward flow has become more sapphire and gold in color, it is coming from Samantabhadri, it is not water it is bliss, and she finally ends the burning in sapphire and gold bliss dripping down from her dance (coitus) at my throat.

The burning was excruciating. I even got up once to see if that would stop it, but I had to "re-enter" and finish things up with her to end it.

[Old Student]

Rechung is part of the Whispered Lineage which in Tibetan is Nyan Gyud, or otherwise Karna Tantra, as seen in a Vajrasattva article, stating that Vajrasattva tantra was established prior to Guhyasamaja, and that it "is" Nyingma tantra, or, he really is the primary Yidam in Guhyagarbha or Vajrasattva Maya Jala.

There are two published streams on the subject:

Secret Dakini of Naro is the Pabonkha version.

Bodyless Dakini is the Drukpa version.

The Drukpa version is passed through the somewhat famous story of Tilo, and Marpa, in a complicated way with Tiphu.

A description of the Bodyless version specifies the wisdom dakinis are not involved with samsaric delusion, and:

Thanks for these resources, all good.


When the line
dissolves to the moon, imagine that you are having the smoke-like vision, and think that
the mirage-like appearance has ceased and the spark-like experience will come next.
When the moon dissolves to the dot, feel that you are experiencing the spark-like vision,
and think that previously there was the smoke vision and subsequently there will be the
butter lamp vision.

This is eerie in the order of appearance of things and the ending of the burning.


The finest consciousness which has the understanding of the
inseparability of voidness and bliss is the simultaneously occurring cause and the material
cause from which the sambhogakaya is actualized (instead of actualizing the bardo body)
is the finest energy wind which is inseparable from the finest consciousness. In the
generation stage, one imagines arising from the clear light as a red BAM which rises and
is positioned vertically in air. On this red BAM set the dignity “I am the sambhogakaya.”

Again, this is very eerie. I will try to get time to read the whole thing.

[shaberon]

Again, this is very eerie.

Yes, but what is today?

That sublime part of the Dharma that is exquisite is even more precious if you look outside its circle of protection, nothing but insanity and death lurks out there.

Death, per se, as in the event or the karma or what happens and why, is more like the Maras. We do intend to mentally overwhelm the ignorant and destructive forces which lead to diseases and horrible fates.

It sounds to me like you may be overloaded with Tummo or Heat. That is a lot. I never really experienced anything I would call physically excruciating like that. I really just got too much power of Bliss and I knew that if I kept going, there would be no way I could lead anything close to a normal life.

I tried that, and am not too impressed with the results. Yoga is better.

I am unsure about Hayagriva but he is Wrathful Avalokiteshvara. Therefor he cannot be disengaged. He is relevant to Speech Isolation, and I have not accomplished that.

From the Bodhisattvas of the Three Families, I feel a bit more guided by and resonant to Vajrapani. I am not sure if this is because he is the Protector of Shaolin Temple. I accept the legend of Shaolin and Bodhidharma, there are scores of martial arts lineages which have continuity to it. And this is what I am heavily trained in, compared to meditation, which is more like a nodding acquaintance. Martial arts is one of the best things that shuts off the verbal part of my brain, and I think geometrically.

I have a bit of bias towards Majushri's meaning or "Gentle Voice", I am a pretty firm believer this is how daily life ought to be guided, and, I usually find the opposite, which I am not sure there is a word for, I usually call it "walking heart attack". It seems to me that psychologically, many people believe in the "linear" constructs of their words, and, for example, anything that deviates from an instant and very literal response is not acceptable. They have projected "I" into the Truly Established Existence of what they claim to be their meaning.

Except there is no such thing, that is complete Parikalpa, purely imaginary and not revealing of reality. Manjushri, on the other hand, is not deluded, is a reliable guide.

I wish I knew better expressions for what I am trying to say. I have always used the term "linear" because it makes sense to me, but, I am not sure if that conveys enough. There are Kleshas and Poisons involved and all that kind of stuff, but, if we just use a Buddhist term like Harmful Speech, then it sounds like it does not apply to some things that may be presented as "polite", which is even worse.



Siddharajni is a type of Tulku who was Mandarava usually white, and Niguma usually brown. However both are associated with Drum and Arrow. From how it appears to me, Drum is like a special upgrade item that the first tier of dakinis do not use.

Sukhasiddhi is a similar Tulku who was Yeshe Tsogyal and I think Machig Labdron.

Bhrikuti is simply considered Green or Syama Tara, she is like the start of Tibetan Buddhism from Nepal in the 600s, and arrived with statues of Akshobya and Maitreya as well as her own Sandalwood Tara. Although she may sound less tantrified or siddha-granting, we may think about why her loom is preserved somewhat secretly or at least on a restricted second floor.

It is a bit weird that she is not considered to be Bhrikuti Tara, who only turns green when heading Amogapasha's retinue. Maybe that is the one intended. Green Tara is not enough of a name to go on. Most of them are Amoghasiddhi Taras, except Day/Night Tara is in Lotus Family; and Bhrikuti's Chinese counterpart is considered White Tara.

Laksminkara practically "is" Cinnamasta, I am not sure if many others qualify.


Niguma's practice is truncated and advanced:

Three Action Meditations: Guru Yoga, Deity Yoga, and Illusory Body.

Then Flowers, or two dakinis, Red and White Celestial Women (Khechari).

The Fruit is Deathlessness and Non-Entry (of either samsara or permanently still nirvana).

Guru Yoga itself has four degrees:

Outer Guru Yoga (Vajradhara)
Inner Guru Yoga (Vidyadharas)
Secret Guru Yoga (Peaceful Avalokiteshvara)
Most Secret Guru Yoga (Quintessence)

Lady of Illusion (http://promienie.net/images/dharma/books/harding_niguma-lady-of-illusion.pdf) is probably the main resource on Niguma, who, in the opening invocation, is named distinctly from Sukhasiddhi. Inner Heat is the first of the Six Doctrines; after that, you go on the Path of Seeing. The Seven Jewels of Enlightenment become the first Bhumi at this time. That is why it makes sense to "time" Vajradaka sadhana to this point, since it deifies the Seven Jewels. That is how I understand it.

Niguma is, in my estimation, a lot more direct than the Kriya to Chara to Yoga format. She is the Shangpa lineage.

I understand her but again I do not really have a link to her.

Achi was around the 1100s and this is just calling her "Lady", her name being Chokyi Drolma which means Dharma Tara, which she was not called because she was Tibetan. She is mainly in Bhutanese Kagyu, her grandson is the founder of Drikung, although she is also at Sera. This is her from the 1300s:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/3/6/2/36277.jpg




She is usually quickly identifiable by a drum and being on a blue horse, on which she rode into the sky to Akanistha. So this is likely her on an 1800s Nyingma:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/7/3/4/73475.jpg




They do not say anything about it, but, it is based on Amitayus and Takkiraja--Manohara.

I feel perhaps a bit closer to her since it is Drikung Thangkas we found which are designed on Sadhanamala and uses the Big Ekajati with Marici Vajradhatvishvari and others. This was her protecting a relatively recent wedding:

https://kirbymoore.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/wedding-my-house-brinton-013.jpg





She is considered a Vajrayogini who can manifest all five classes of dakinis as evident in a one-page preview (https://www.scribd.com/doc/181783871/Achi-Chokyi-Drolma-pdf) which includes Four Dakinis mantra and says she is white. In a full version (https://kupdf.net/download/achi-sadhana-drikung_58b08b396454a79c04b1e935_pdf) she is also wrathful red, and, she understands at least some Sanskrit and they do call her Dharma Tara.

https://gardrolma.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/GDC_Daily_Virtual_Achi_Practice_-_Google_Docs.jpg




She also at least once is considered an Akshobya emanation.

I...have not seen another individual with these capabilities. It is incomprehensible. She made herself into everything. How do you do this?

[Old Student]

t sounds to me like you may be overloaded with Tummo or Heat. That is a lot. I never really experienced anything I would call physically excruciating like that. I really just got too much power of Bliss and I knew that if I kept going, there would be no way I could lead anything close to a normal life.

I tried that, and am not too impressed with the results. Yoga is better.

I did think of that. This is the second time recently that there has been some kind of expulsion or rooting out of something, the first being when the blocky sandstone being was expulsed and Ushas appeared in front of me with the staff. Last night was apparently a test, which I sort of flunked and then passed one element of. The whole thing with the burning and such cleared out the inside of me and there is a kind of matching up of certain kinds of bliss with the whole practice of the nadis, especially the sushumna. There is a thing that I can do to activate a kind of glowing warmth at dantian, which I'm supposed to do more with, but have only barely gotten it to do more than just glow.


From the Bodhisattvas of the Three Families, I feel a bit more guided by and resonant to Vajrapani. I am not sure if this is because he is the Protector of Shaolin Temple. I accept the legend of Shaolin and Bodhidharma, there are scores of martial arts lineages which have continuity to it. And this is what I am heavily trained in, compared to meditation, which is more like a nodding acquaintance. Martial arts is one of the best things that shuts off the verbal part of my brain, and I think geometrically.

Not to mention that Bodhidharma is the founder of Zen/Chan. The tradition my training was from is Mt. Hua, Chen Liyi, who practiced sleeping meditation, and was supposed to have created Liuhebafa. It's got more Daoism in it, but also Buddhism. It has a lot of what is translated as "microcosmic orbit", something that has been new aged and scattered all over the map by among others Mantak Chia.

I spent quite a few years trying to nail down what this was and wasn't, including working on Tummo, because the standing meditation I do is actually called "wind circle standing". There are supposed to be three cycles of orbit, a fire cycle, a water cycle, and then there is a wind cycle about which almost nothing gets written and as a result there are skiddyeight million different theories as to what it is. I do have a whole set of pdfs, diagrams and other things on those. The above warm thing at dantian solves that long running mystery for me, at least at the personal level.

Anyway, your statement answers why a Sanskrit studying yoga tantra person would know what the circle into the crane pose is.


I wish I knew better expressions for what I am trying to say. I have always used the term "linear" because it makes sense to me, but, I am not sure if that conveys enough. There are Kleshas and Poisons involved and all that kind of stuff, but, if we just use a Buddhist term like Harmful Speech, then it sounds like it does not apply to some things that may be presented as "polite", which is even worse.

I'm not sure there is a better way to say such things. I just got finished with Book five of the Avatamsaka, about the flower bank worlds. The chapter is a recitation of worlds, probably well over a thousand of them (I counted 1300, but I need to check my figures), and they are all produced from the sound of the pronouncement of a vow. Clearly not supposed to be "linear", and they do use the words pure speech and harmful speech.


Lady of Illusion is probably the main resource on Niguma, who, in the opening invocation, is named distinctly from Sukhasiddhi. Inner Heat is the first of the Six Doctrines; after that, you go on the Path of Seeing. The Seven Jewels of Enlightenment become the first Bhumi at this time. That is why it makes sense to "time" Vajradaka sadhana to this point, since it deifies the Seven Jewels. That is how I understand it.

Niguma's doctrine is that everything is illusion, including the insight that everything is illusion. Some versions of the legends put Sukhasiddhi as her student, although they have nearly impossibly distant time frames.

Of interest is that Khyungpo Naljor, the man who goes to learn from these two and eventually establish Shangpa Kagyu. His name is sometimes given as meaning the Naljor from Khyungpo, which is a town in Amdo. But better derivations give him as being Khyung clan from Southeastern Tibet. His name says he was a Bon-po master who's "familiar" was a Khyung which is usually translated as Garuda, but is actually a horned eagle -- which paleontologists and anthropologists are divided over whether this is a mixture of the golden eagle and great horned owl which live near there (the former Zhang Zhung, capital Khyungling) or there may have been an extinct species of eagle that had horns.


They do not say anything about it, but, it is based on Amitayus and Takkiraja--Manohara.

What is in Amitayus' consort (Pandaravasini)'s hand? It looks like a vase and also a heart with an arrow through it.

[shaberon]

What is in Amitayus' consort (Pandaravasini)'s hand? It looks like a vase and also a heart with an arrow through it.

It is an Amrita Vase and it looks to me like she is just holding the arrow in a way I cannot see the arrowhead. The telling parts would be the black feathers and orange ribbon. The symbols guide would tell us how that is different from Achi's pure white, or other ones of mixed colors. There are so many kinds, I cannot remember the differences after the main teaching about the Arrow in relation to the Avadhut.

I have just received a Ganesh.

And may be able to get things re-arranged to where I can do a basic practice.

I have had a series of dreadful events and calamities, and, I found by migrating to another location outdoors in some of the nice moonlight that was out, I am able to take Fury and transform it into Prajnaparamita in a matter of moments with a simple Ngondro based in Refuge Vow and Hundred Syllable mantra and a few other basic things. At that point, it manifests Vajradakini when understood as the crown--not fiery and blazing, but, existing something like a highway interchange, completely palpable mentally and physically.

So that could be expressed as a power level. It is not Guru Yoga. If I go that far, that means it will be at least powerful enough to the point where the tiny green light on a keyboard feels like an infinite spear. It takes extremely Sattvic and certain conditions, similar to Lakshmi.

At this Ngondro level, the moonlight easily phases into a smoke or Marici-like condition. There were two radiances which I could not attribute to a physical source such as an after-image of bright planets.

This is Upeska if you think of your three worst peeves in life, all going off at the same time, I don't mean finicky irritations, let's say serious things that would understandably be irritable to anyone. And that can easily be shown to be unnecessary. Like quit standing on my toes and so on. Until you are ready to start throwing the china. Then the mantra has the power to kill that and install a very stable...different or unusual feeling in the head coupled with an overall electrical change...very quickly.

It is like I am trying to re-package a Wendigo into a Flower Arrow, but, it can't be a cheap cover-up, it has to be a sealed alchemical ingredient.

It feels a lot like Parnasabari or Broom, sweeping out filth to replace it with something wholesome.

The axis of her as a Pisaci keeps coming more clear. It is like converting the strongest kind of ghost vampire into the most powerful healer. Ganesh says, if she is this shakti, let's collect her and use her too. So he was clearly understandable and worked immediately.

And so there is a spell of hers or Janguli's that is spoken by the first of the Heavenly Kings in Lotus Sutra. And this is the first plane of Kama Loka and the spell is from its first denizen Dhritarastra. And these guys are supposed to be the angriest beings in existence. With the oracles, they can throw swords into walls or even tie them in knots by telekinesis. The secret power of Buddhism is that they are controlled, they are unable to enter the world and cause mayhem. That says nothing to the fact that they are extremely angry and violent. At best they can calm down and talk sense, they are not wisdom beings.

These days are the "season of the dead", that is who they are, in a way that is kind of stuck.

When I take Janguli and Parnasabari's powers and use them and they actually work, then, to turn around and do a bit of mantric praise to even a poor visualization has a tremendous effect at ego blitzing and emotional catharsis. It is like already being shackled to the goddesses at a very deep level and finding out about it later.

It is the same thing as sensing Vajradakini as a force in the head and understanding this as an aspect of Parasol and then the mantra directly amplifies it. And it is still Upeksa.



The direction I was pushed in, by sifting through the "new to me" sadhanas now available at their sources, was, for some reason, Green Janguli, who only has one single sadhana, and for some reason, this is the one selected to accompany the Big Ekajati with all the Maricis and Cunda, and, I think, one of the things that looks like Ekajati may actually be Humkara. So this detail is from one of the main things that the Drikung use to represent Sadhanamala. They have one that is focused on Green Tara and one on Kurukulla, but, Ekajati is the main one that says something about the links between different goddesses in Sadhanamala as a whole. Janguli has two other forms, and is also the acolyte of Parnasabari in Krishna Yamari tantra and has her only retinue there in her yellow form with Vajrashrnkala and others. I did not know any of this when I first studied her and saw the sadhana, but then here is Green Janguli from the Big Ekajati piece:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/9/7/59708.jpg






Independently:

http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Janguli001-772x1024.jpg







Unless more familiar with certain dakinis, this would perhaps be the first Trident one would meditate on, itself already a symbol of transforming the Three Poisons and the Three Worlds.

The sadhana is quite brief and is not particularly repetitive of common elements, it is quite unique.

Green Janguli 121 is a Hrdaya Kalpa.or explanation of her heart; only one of its kind.

Janguli is a Kumari, she is the only goddess being Trikaya (117), and on her green form, is Vajrakaya and Mahayogeshvari, which is Durga and Parvati, "the daughter of the king of the mountains of Himawat and the heavenly virgin Menaki, she is the mother of the elephant-like god Ganesha, whom she created from her sweat."

She uses the Serpent Hood Mudra which is the same as Sarvadurgati Parisghodana in its Naga rite, with seven repetitions of her Dharani, which is a Mahavidya. She herself is not in that pose, but appears to be instructing the disciple to do so. The rite in Sarvadurgati is based on Vajradhara, so, to me, it would be a form of Guru Yoga. Vajradhara and Janguli are related on this one specific subject. Her own pose is with one of the few usages of a Peacock Plume.

The Dharani itself is mentioned in the Neplese Dharani Samgraha after Gauri and Gandhari, i. e., two of the others from the Pisachi mantra.

It seems to me that is a way to form a specific identity to each naga king/poison/cemetery/paramita, at least for seven of them, which would represent principles of consciousness, leaving the eighth as the sort of unknown or future aspect or "the Alaya" as blank, invisible, or the seven as a whole. From what I can tell, this symbol is peerless, the Naga Hood. And so this practice is a way to upgrade it from a shallow mnemonic image or concept into something with a much fuller personality which means it will work much more powerfully.

After that it ends with something about the unusual syllable Huh.

"Huh" would seem to have no particular use, however, the Aryan Kriyakalagunottara uses it in Nilakantha's Meghamala Vidya or Garland of Clouds, whose purpose is to free one from all poisons. If bitten, it then invokes "Lady whose form is nectar" to determine which caste of serpent caused the wound, and responds with various seed-syllables. This is from a study of Garuda Tantras.

It is a linguistic seed, in that huh plus ah, becoming ha, makes the sound of laughter (Tathagata Family). Same root as Hah or Hoh. If it appears anywhere other than Garland of Clouds, I am not sure. Sarpa occurs once in Rig Veda where Ahi is usually found.

She is also related to Hrih and therefor tangential to the mainly Lotus deities who employ it.

Janguli is also involved with the explanatory hypostasis from the rare manuscript.

MSD4 has Prajnaparamita's retinue at first as Green Janguli with snake, Green Mayuri with plume, then adds Durgottarini, Khadira, and Vajra Tara. Then, it is a higher-ranking scheme with Krsna Yamari, etc., that has Eight Arm Vajra Tara, and puts Eight Arm Marici and Two Arm Sita in place of Janguli and Mayuri. This shows Sita as a potential consort to Vajrasattva, and already showed Durgottarini and Khadira with Krsna Yamari and Vignantaka. The un-coupled Hevajra and Samvara would be suggested with Eight Arm Marici and Vajra Tara. Prajnaparamita would mate with Enlightenment. This male enlightenment deity is "ambiguous", "possibly Manjuvajra", but is given the name Maravijaya. This is a Yellow Six Arm form in a "shrine", with a sword, bow and arrow, flower, with the principal arms crossed in front of the chest. So Six Arm Vajrasattva-Manjuvajra is thought to be the one under this one, who would merge with Two Arm Sita. This is about all that can be said for a damaged manuscript that uses Ratnagiri Taras.

Receptacle of the Sacred also explained MSD3 as Prajnaparamita becoming Vajradhatvishvari by appropriating Six Arm Arch Marici and radiating light. This Arch form is rare and not among most known sadhanas. The authors believe this to be the Esoteric form of Prajnaparamita, i. e. generated by Prabhasvara. Quoting Sarvarahasyatantra, they say the goddess residing in the heart, causing the yoga of the yogin, the Mother of All Buddhas, is called Vajradhatvishvari (Queen of the Diamond Realm).

Bhutadamara Vajrapani also appears to have both yellow and green Janguli in his register.

The Yamari is based on:

Krishna Yamari, 13 Deity (Janguli--Parnasabari, Vajrabhairava, Vetali, Acala, Trailokyavijaya)

It is weird, it is like she called to me and we find that by definition, she is in a relatively high position with specific connections, and shows her own growth pattern by the yellow form obviously being a step up from the green, which, itself, is a bundle of all of the basics, especially since it focuses more heavily on Seven than almost anything. She is Kurukulla-esque in that her yellow form gains a Bow and both are mountain girls. Their functions are different and we do not see Janguli personally carried forward that deep into the higher tantras, but, we could estimate that it is Noose power as shown by Janguli and Aparajita which descends into the Nadir or Bhucari goddes or Sumbha of the Underworld. She, paradoxically, shows the nature of Samsara, whereas Vajradakini is also the Samsara Skandha per se. It is something like Vajradakini at the Zenith has potential Noumenal control over the lower manifested Samsara, whereas Bhucari--Sumbha simply is the embodiment/experience of it.

This also makes sense in that one is cleaning the aura by cleaning the magnetic flux lines so that pure influence pushes from the north and enters the south. Otherwise the south typically just pulls in environmental muck and the lines are deviated.

So this is like saying Sadaksari Mahavidya exoterically gives all Six Families and their correspondences; it is not a big change, but is a little more action-oriented, adds the seventh, and incorporates tantric energy. That is why it sounds great for a type of transitional Yoga into the Pranayama stage. She is not quite a "definitive/inherent" entity like Guhyajnana or Pandara are just subtle parts of the human being, she is more like a power that has to be attracted and handled properly. It is not just useful in teaching seven elements in a way to interiorize it, because she can do all the necessary transformations of each of the poisons. If she can transform the sixth poison, and, one cannot quite tell what this even is, then it takes some understudy to get her flowing. Whatever is done in the name of Mayuri will increase Janguli's feather, and so on. She is perhaps more interesting since she can tackle them in at least three ways, by snakebite, flower, or kiss.

Again like Russian dolls or windows within windows, considering the Guru Yoga is a little bit more strenuous effort inside the Ngondro, deity sadhana is an even more sensitive and stronger moment within that. It is not even worth trying to rush it and would probably need a full hour.

Davidson's Krsna Yamari translation says:

So now, I will pronounce the ritual meditation on the Noble JaNguli. By
merely visualizing her, one could cross over water.

Visualize her with three faces, and six arms. She is yellow, and forms
from the seed mantra Phuh. She holds a snake in her hands and is of enormous form. She loves to ride on her peacock vehicle. To the east, paint Mayuri, with Bhrkuti to the south. To her west is Parnasabari, and VajrasrNkhala to the north.

Peacock feathers, a gourd, a branch and a chain—visualize these (for the other goddesses) and their colors: yellow, red, dark, and blue. The intelligent one will visualize them thus, and recite the mantra:

om phuh jah


Place (visualize) Mudgara, etc., at the doors (in the cardinal directions) and Puspa, etc., in the intermediate directions. Then, by the Noble JaNguli yoga, you can always cross over water.

She removes poison; water poison comes from Tamas. Jnanagni is what obliterates these substances from the aura. So Janguli is a precursor or inspiration for Jnanagni. In referring to Janguli, it is possible that as early as 1917, an English speaker has figured out the "Tara series" is intended to emanate "He of Seven Syllables".

A study from Cambridge associates Parnasabari with Sitala, "She who cools" (breaks fever or Jvara), the wrathful form of Katyayani, who sometimes carries a cluster of medicinal Neem; on Wiki, she is at least found in Buddhism as an attendant to Parnasabari. She is the cause and cure of diseases and ghouls.

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/1/8/4/18420.jpg

[Old Student]

It is an Amrita Vase and it looks to me like she is just holding the arrow in a way I cannot see the arrowhead.

You are right, I was interpreting it all as one hand, it's two hands, one with vase, one with arrow.


I have had a series of dreadful events and calamities, and, I found by migrating to another location outdoors in some of the nice moonlight that was out, I am able to take Fury and transform it into Prajnaparamita in a matter of moments with a simple Ngondro based in Refuge Vow and Hundred Syllable mantra and a few other basic things. At that point, it manifests Vajradakini when understood as the crown--not fiery and blazing, but, existing something like a highway interchange, completely palpable mentally and physically.


Does this have anything to do with your question, "What is today?" I didn't even think of what day it was until after I had replied.


This is Upeska if you think of your three worst peeves in life, all going off at the same time, I don't mean finicky irritations, let's say serious things that would understandably be irritable to anyone. And that can easily be shown to be unnecessary. Like quit standing on my toes and so on. Until you are ready to start throwing the china. Then the mantra has the power to kill that and install a very stable...different or unusual feeling in the head coupled with an overall electrical change...very quickly.

I learned and had to practice a "quiet order" the night before last, that was quiet the mind including the body. I think it might do the same thing. It was given as an order, so it ended up in my notes and in my practice as the "quiet order".


These days are the "season of the dead", that is who they are, in a way that is kind of stuck.

This sounds like the answer to my above question is, "Yes."


Janguli is a Kumari, she is the only goddess being Trikaya (117), and on her green form, is Vajrakaya and Mahayogeshvari, which is Durga and Parvati, "the daughter of the king of the mountains of Himawat and the heavenly virgin Menaki, she is the mother of the elephant-like god Ganesha, whom she created from her sweat."

So mothers can be virgins with some regularity? The second of the two thangkas calls her (in Chinese on bottom left), the "Virgin Janguli" (literally the child-woman Janguli).





It is weird, it is like she called to me and we find that by definition, she is in a relatively high position with specific connections, and shows her own growth pattern by the yellow form obviously being a step up from the green, which, itself, is a bundle of all of the basics, especially since it focuses more heavily on Seven than almost anything. She is Kurukulla-esque in that her yellow form gains a Bow and both are mountain girls. Their functions are different and we do not see Janguli personally carried forward that deep into the higher tantras, but, we could estimate that it is Noose power as shown by Janguli and Aparajita which descends into the Nadir or Bhucari goddes or Sumbha of the Underworld. She, paradoxically, shows the nature of Samsara, whereas Vajradakini is also the Samsara Skandha per se. It is something like Vajradakini at the Zenith has potential Noumenal control over the lower manifested Samsara, whereas Bhucari--Sumbha simply is the embodiment/experience of it.

If she called to you, I would follow that, it might have a path in it that carries her forward. I am curious, she is never red in color? I am specifically looking at the bottom panel where she has the body of a snake herself instead of just being entwined with snakes.

[shaberon]

So mothers can be virgins with some regularity? The second of the two thangkas calls her (in Chinese on bottom left), the "Virgin Janguli" (literally the child-woman Janguli).

Yes, you are onto it there.

Janguli is not called mother of anything that I am aware of, but, her mother is simultaneously a cosmic virgin. This is like a twin paradox of Devi Candi and Candika, or of the sun, or the Greater and Lesser Akash--Mental Plane vs. physical ether or Astral Light.


If she called to you, I would follow that, it might have a path in it that carries her forward. I am curious, she is never red in color? I am specifically looking at the bottom panel where she has the body of a snake herself instead of just being entwined with snakes.

No, and no.

The Chinese one is accurate, and the lower image is just an image that was not said to be Janguli but showed the Naga Hood on what I took to be a practitioner.

Janguli is a Vajra Family Akshobya goddess who appears in white, green, and yellow.

She "is" Manasa Devi but *is not* the kind that ever becomes even part naga, whereas Manasa reveals the Naga Kanya or winged naga.

Janguli is indirect and sounds meaningful to me via Vajrapani, Nagarjuna, and Nagaraja, and then even Amoghasiddhi even though he is nor her sire, he inherits her hood, which the previous two also have. This seems really specific and when I kick it in the tires, I get Vajradhara in Sarvadurgati Parishodana doing almost exactly the same thing as Janguli.

Naga (http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Naga'_Worship_in_India_and_South_East_Asia_by_by_Krishnaraj) or Ahi Budhnya is considered the invisible or dark Agni, i. e. similar to the darkness before dawn or male version of it, and the Naga Mucalinda sheltered Buddha for a week during Enlightenment. Naga Kanya (http://serpentsanctum.com/naga-kanya/#:~:text=Naga%20Kanya%20is%20most%20often,conch%20shell%20in%20her%20hands.&text=In%20the%20Buddhist%20traditions%2C%20Naga,goddess%20and%20protector%20of%20Dharma.) is widespread, but, does not seem to have a personal name in Buddhism and may just be a class of Dharma Protector. Her item is usually Conch.

One gilded statue (https://mandalas.life/get/hrsh-5295-tibetan-statue-of-naga-kanya-full-fire-gold-plated-antique-finishing) suggests:

"Naga Kanya means in Sanskrit the virgin, the maiden of the Nagas. This picture refers to a beautiful buddhist tale narrated in the XIIth chapter of the Lotus Sutra where a Naga princess, daughter of the Ocean (Sagara) comes to bodhicitta at the tender age of eight.

Before an incredulous assembly of bodhisattvas (because she was so young, and a woman), the Nagini offers then to the Buddha a jewel, said to be worth thousands of worlds. When the Bodhisattvas tell her that the Buddha accepted her jewel immediately, she told them to watch her become a buddha even more rapidly.

The common interpretation of this myth is that her jewel was in truth her very own life, worth indeed thousands of worlds, and the gift of which was the ultimate price, whether it be spontaneous or the work of an entire life."

Buddha under Torana Arch and Naga Kanyas:

https://i0.wp.com/www.dharmasculpture.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/naga2.jpg?fit=200%2C300



https://i0.wp.com/www.dharmasculpture.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/naga3.jpg?w=200





Lankavatara Sutra (https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book/the-la%E1%B9%85k%C4%81vat%C4%81ra-s%C5%ABtra/d/doc82479.html) has the odd phrase "Nagakanyas including Sakra and Brahma".

There are mantras "associated" with her including the phrase Shankhini Vayumukhi (https://www.quora.com/How-is-Naga-Kanya-worshipped-prayed-to-meditated-on-What-is-her-mantra-What-would-be-suitable-offerings-to-her), "Conch holder, Wind Face or Mouth".

One of her mantras is: "Om Naga Kanya Sarva Siddhi Hum", do not offer her meat or alcohol. The mantra roughly translates as: "Om Naga Kanya bestow the attainments Hum."

So Naga Kanya is "known of", but, not Janguli or any type of named Yidam I am aware of.

The Upeksa regimen is of such a caliber that, I am not a puker, and I vomited for the first time in about fifteen years, and I believe it was the first emotional vomit I ever experienced.

In the Four Brahmavihara, it sounds contradictory, "Indifference" does not match Love, but, it does not mean "indifference to the person", it means indifference like Jnanagni or non-attachment to results. The person you offer Karuna to might turn on you viciously, or they could get run over by a truck. Jnanagni fire dissolves the "glue" of Water Poison, much like Janguli is "Crossing over Water", it has to do with the Element, not a physical levitation or water-walking. Perhaps, but, that is not initially the point, it is symbolic of all water and naga diseases.

Usually water is Vedana Skandha, and that is like Vajra Family tampering with Jewel Family.

[shaberon]

Somehow I just re-posted the same thing, so, going to put something else here.

A Kriya Yoga (https://www.do-meditation.com/primordial-sound-meditation.html) list of centers and sounds makes one wonder what HPB was saying about the medulla vs. the ajna:

Different cerebra-spinal centers or chakras emit different vibrations. For example, the coccygeal (mooladhara) chakra at the base of the spine emits a humming sound. The sacral centre or the swadhishthana chakra has a flute-like sound. Lumber centre (manipura chakra) sounds like a harp and the dorsal centre (anahata chakra) has a bell-like sound.

Cervical (vishuddha chakra) sounds like rushing water and the medulla oblongata (ajna chakra) is the symphony of all sounds together.

She did say the bodily chakras exist in the brain, which makes sense for something like Manipur, but, this list is implying that the ajna is the front face of the back brain, rather than the optic nerve area.

Many diagrams represent the central channel as bent and going out the nose, and that is the ajna. That cannot be ultimately correct, since the central is straight and goes out the crown. I suppose it is provisionally true while working on breathing and to get through or beyond the ajna.

I do not know how to categorize the sound I have started experiencing for a couple of years. I did notice that the moonlight meditation moved it into the center, whereas it is usually off to the side. It perhaps is more like a reed instrument like a bassoon or something, or possibly "humming" as used to describe the Muladhara. It is a little odd to say the base chakra emits a sound which seems to be coming from the attic, so, I am just not really sure what it is.

The Janguli-esque chakra chart is from a large private collection which is mostly Gelug, part Bon, and a bit of everything. Although Janguli is not red, here is a Taklung Kagyu Krisna Yamari, who is usually accompanied by Vetali, who appears to be red in the lower right. So far so good, but, with expansion, it looks like she has a Naga Hood:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/1/8/3/18390.jpg




They also have an Ngor Dharmadhatu Vagisvara Manjughosha, the highest Namasangiti mandala, which has 219 entities--almost all of them are standard Hindu and Buddhist firgures. The unique ones are the Four Pratisamvit Gatekeepers, and the four arrays of goddesses for the Paramitas and Bhumis and so forth:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/1/8/3/18341.jpg





Although it is a Yoga-class mandala, it is accepted as Non-dual Anuttara Yoga, just like Vajra Tara. That is unusual, since non-dual practices are almost always based in Union. What it means is that either one of those is as reliable as something like Kalachakra for advanced practice.

Manjushri is basically the mouthpiece of Vairocana.

Vajra Tara is a bit like Kurukulla, both being underpinnings of Hevajra Tantra. Vajra Tara installs the Zenith and Nadir and utilizes Nairatma as her sixth principle. She seems to lack development of her forms--changes from a White Heruka into her Eight Arm Yellow form, and, this second one iterates tons of practices.

[Old Student]

The Chinese one is accurate, and the lower image is just an image that was not said to be Janguli but showed the Naga Hood on what I took to be a practitioner.

Okay, I had thought the bottom one was also some rendition of Janguli. The reason for asking is that there is a "sometimes personified" bliss that aggregates in my upper chest and then at some point will move upwards to "power" my throat and head. When it "personifies" it looks like a multi-armed red goddess with the lower body of a snake or sometimes her whole body seems almost like a scorpion.


This picture refers to a beautiful buddhist tale narrated in the XIIth chapter of the Lotus Sutra...

It is a beautiful tale. It also illuminates a bit what is meant by the "worlds" in the sutras, if a thousand worlds is a sum total of a life.


There are mantras "associated" with her including the phrase Shankhini Vayumukhi, "Conch holder, Wind Face or Mouth".
There is this one. (https://nikhil-siddhashram.blogspot.com/2017/05/asht-nagini-tantra-sadhana.html)


The Upeksa regimen is of such a caliber that, I am not a puker, and I vomited for the first time in about fifteen years, and I believe it was the first emotional vomit I ever experienced.

I have never experienced something like this. The only emotional vomiting I ever did was because of "vicarious traumatization" -- hearing a story so horrible that no one should ever have to hear it, let alone tell it.

[Old Student]

Different cerebra-spinal centers or chakras emit different vibrations. For example, the coccygeal (mooladhara) chakra at the base of the spine emits a humming sound. The sacral centre or the swadhishthana chakra has a flute-like sound. Lumber centre (manipura chakra) sounds like a harp and the dorsal centre (anahata chakra) has a bell-like sound.

Cervical (vishuddha chakra) sounds like rushing water and the medulla oblongata (ajna chakra) is the symphony of all sounds together.

She did say the bodily chakras exist in the brain, which makes sense for something like Manipur, but, this list is implying that the ajna is the front face of the back brain, rather than the optic nerve area.

Many diagrams represent the central channel as bent and going out the nose, and that is the ajna. That cannot be ultimately correct, since the central is straight and goes out the crown. I suppose it is provisionally true while working on breathing and to get through or beyond the ajna.

I do not know how to categorize the sound I have started experiencing for a couple of years. I did notice that the moonlight meditation moved it into the center, whereas it is usually off to the side. It perhaps is more like a reed instrument like a bassoon or something, or possibly "humming" as used to describe the Muladhara. It is a little odd to say the base chakra emits a sound which seems to be coming from the attic, so, I am just not really sure what it is.

Lots of thoughts on this. I did some experimentation back during my experiment time before the shaking became the direction in which I was headed, with "binaural beats". I still "enjoy" them sometimes while I'm working on other things. For me, using these beats, Muladhara needs a low note, low enough that I don't always find recordings that work. Something the frequencies of a bassoon would, for me, stimulate something higher, my heart or throat maybe.

I have what is, in my notes, called a "humming shaking", which is very fast (for shaking) to the point of being a low hum. It's very low, but during the day there are times when a beat frequency note from something is low enough that is matches that tone and my body will start generating bliss like that for humming shaking. It's the shaking that produces the cellular shaking and decompose of the three that I told you about (dissolve, decay, decompose). But it's way lower than a bassoon, more like hearing a hummingbird up close.

Off center for me usually resolves into a movement or a change of scenery (if it's during a vision).


Although Janguli is not red, here is a Taklung Kagyu Krisna Yamari, who is usually accompanied by Vetali, who appears to be red in the lower right. So far so good, but, with expansion, it looks like she has a Naga Hood:

Doesn't look very close, but I have never seen the one in my chest in great detail.

[shaberon]

It also illuminates a bit what is meant by the "worlds" in the sutras, if a thousand worlds is a sum total of a life.


Yes. It is perhaps modeled after the solar systems and galaxies, but, according to Wiki's Buddhist Cosmology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology), a world is a Noumenal event produced by the beings themselves:

The picture of the world presented in Buddhist cosmological descriptions cannot be taken as a literal description of the shape of the universe. It is inconsistent, and cannot be made consistent, with astronomical data that were already known in ancient India. However, it is not intended to be a description of how ordinary humans perceive their world;[8] rather, it is the universe as seen through the divyacakṣus दिव्यचक्षुः (Pāli: dibbacakkhu दिब्बचक्खु), the "divine eye" by which a Buddha or an arhat who has cultivated this faculty can perceive all of the other worlds and the beings arising (being born) and passing away (dying) within them, and can tell from what state they have been reborn and into what state they will be reborn.

In the vertical cosmology, the universe exists of many worlds (lokāḥ; Devanagari: लोकाः) – one might say "planes/realms" – stacked one upon the next in layers. Each world corresponds to a mental state or a state of being". A world is not, however, a location so much as it is the beings which compose it; it is sustained by their karma and if the beings in a world all die or disappear, the world disappears too. Likewise, a world comes into existence when the first being is born into it. The physical separation is not so important as the difference in mental state; humans and animals, though they partially share the same physical environments, still belong to different worlds because their minds perceive and react to those environments differently.

The vertical cosmology is divided into thirty-one planes of existence and the planes into three realms, or dhātus, each corresponding to a different type of mentality. These three realms (Tridhātu) are the Ārūpyadhātu (4 Realms), the Rūpadhātu (16 Realms), and the Kāmadhātu (15 Realms). In some instances all of the beings born in the Ārūpyadhātu and the Rūpadhātu are informally classified as "gods" or "deities" (devāḥ), along with the gods of the Kāmadhātu, notwithstanding the fact that the deities of the Kāmadhātu differ more from those of the Ārūpyadhātu than they do from humans. It is to be understood that deva is an imprecise term referring to any being living in a longer-lived and generally more blissful state than humans. Most of them are not "gods" in the common sense of the term, having little or no concern with the human world and rarely if ever interacting with it; only the lowest deities of the Kāmadhātu correspond to the gods described in many polytheistic religions.

The term "brahmā; Devanagari: ब्रह्मा" is used both as a name and as a generic term for one of the higher devas. In its broadest sense, it can refer to any of the inhabitants of the Ārūpyadhātu and the Rūpadhātu. In more restricted senses, it can refer to an inhabitant of one of the eleven lower worlds of the Rūpadhātu, or in its narrowest sense, to the three lowest worlds of the Rūpadhātu (Plane of Brahma's retinue) A large number of devas use the name "Brahmā", e.g. Brahmā Sahampati ब्रह्मा सहम्पत्ति, Brahmā Sanatkumāra ब्रह्मा सनत्कुमारः, Baka Brahmā बकब्रह्मा, etc. It is not always clear which world they belong to, although it must always be one of the worlds of the Rūpadhātu.

Beings in Kama Loka below the rank of Anangamin are said to be suffering there (under Mara). So, were you to witness it as a novice such as a Stream-enterer, you will suffer there. So this is pretty close to saying Anangamin is the victory state of Vajrabhairava or similar Trilokyavijaya practices. Until then it may be a battleground.

All of those planes correspond to the Dhyanas.

Obviously, Deva is not necessarily even a very nice term, whereas Devata is either an enlightened being, or, at the very least, something that does what its mantra says.

The Eight Naginis mantra is interesting because they do not have their own names, they are just the "mukhi" of their male counterpart, and so you get ones like Ananta Mukhi, which is the same name as the Buddhist Dharani "Endless Gate". There, the same word for "mouth" also means "door or gate". The series has been closely copied by a syncretic (https://www.mahajrya.org/files/English/Naga_Devi_EN.pdf) Buddhist society that also includes Phuh--Padmavati, but also goes on to Sankhini Vayumukhi.

Ananta is Sesha whose embodied radiance is Varuni. She is the light in the Talas or Underworlds, which increase by orders of darkness and density, as if they are anti or negative light. He claimed her when she was churned from the ocean of milk.

One site even lists Bharati (https://chiraan.com/2010/11/23/amsha-amshi-avatara-aavesha/comment-page-1/) avatars such as Draupadi, and says:

SAUPARNI ,VARUNI , PARVATI avatara

Sauparni is wife of Garuda no avatara . [Garuda does not have avatars]
Varuni is wife of SESHA
REVATI is varuni avatara with SRIDEVI avesha
Peya is also varuni with shanti avesha
Parvati avatara is Sati Shailaja Girija .

Revati and Varuni are also related to Balarama. There is a Gaudiya (https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/who-are-lord-balaramas-two-wives.198683/) view which is slightly different than others as usual. Urmila is Revati and Varuni combined. So this is very intricate.

Balarama is what we know as Hercules, i. e. Hari Kula or Vishnu's Family. This is the location of the Central Spiritual Sun according to Koothoomi. When it is revealed, Sesha will spew dark venom all over the planet and we will be no more.

Anyone who could diagram the web of relationships based on what Balarama even is, is virtually an adept.

Revati (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revati_(nakshatra)) is the Ram's Horn or First Point of Aries, so, marks the beginning of that type of time cycle, whereas Varuni, or at least her husband, has to do with the end of one. Revati (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revati) is the incarnation of Naga Lakshmi after Urmila.

"Because she was from an earlier yuga, Revati was far taller and larger than her husband-to-be, but Balarama, tapped his plough (his characteristic weapon) on her head or shoulder and she shrunk to the normal height of people in Balarama's age."

That Plough is really his "Hercules symbol" and winds up in the hands of one of the Gauris in Dakini Jala. Their sons were killed, but, their daughter marries Arjuna's son, and Arjuna's wife was a Naga Kanya.

That is the relationship of Garudas and Nagas. Finite Time Cycles (Garudas) cutting up Infinite Time (Nagas). Obviously those are "natural enemies", yet basically immune to each other.

Ananta was also the first Kirat king, followed by Vasuki and others.

Boundless Gate--Nirhara--Anantamukhi is Dana or First Paramita, Generosity, according to Tson Khapa:


As to living beings who dispute with others,
It is tightfistedness that is the root cause.
So renounce that which you crave.
After you give up craving, the formula will work.

In Namasangiti, it "is not" a Paramita, but, is the Dharani that corresponds to Prajnaparamita, which is kind of a "loop back to beginning" anyway. The Dharani is:

(Arya ananta mukha sadhaka nama dharani)

Tadhyata ane akhe ma-khe mukhe samanta-mukhe su me satya rame saudhi yukti nir-ukte nir-ukti. Prabhe hire hiri kalpe kalpasi sale. Saravati hire hire hire hire hire hire hiri hirile maha-hi hire cande javane cara carani acale ma-cale anante ananta-gati arani nir-mani nir-vapani nir-vartane nir-dante. Dharma-dhare nir-hare nir-hare vimale sila vi-sodhane prakrti-dipane bhava vi-bhavane a-sange a-sanga vihare dame. Vimale vimala-prabhe sam-karsani. Dhire dhi dhire maha-dhi dhire yase yasovati. Cale a-cale ma-cale sama-cale drdha sam-dhi su-sthire. A-sange a-sanga vihare a-sanga nir-hare. Nihara vimale nihara sodhane drdhasu me. Sthira sthame sthamavati. Maha-prabhe samanta-prabhe vipula-prabhe vipula-rasmi samanta-mukhe sarvatranugati anacchedye. Dharani dharma ni-dhana gotre samanta-prabhe. Sarva tathagata adhisthanadhistithe svaha.

This is very rare and obscure; I cannot recall where I found it. Obviously in the medieval era it was well-known, and so, it is hard to imagine that they would be unaware it means Ananta Shakti as it is even used this way by Ganesh. It is probably in a Japanese study of a 1916 (https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=31045) book wherein it is also Amida Dharani Sutra and the spelling used appears to be "mukha". It has a Jnanagarbha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B1%C4%81nagarbha) commentary, and so this thing was all over Nalanda.

The best, or, in fact, only authority on it would be Jnanagarbha, and we would have to dig to find whatever he said. Right now it is hard to say if this means the serpent Ananta in any way. Evidently it is related to Sukhavati Pure Land in the Japanese records. If we could get those, they also have all of the seed syllables for Dakini Jala. But these are deep in academic reprints that typically cost a substantial price.

I would lean towards disposing of the "mukhi" or goddess implication, except the dharani obviously uses Sarasvati and Vimala, so, she isn't leaving, even if it is supposed to be a male-based thing for monks.

I don't know? Generic name Endless Door from ignoring a common correspondence? Or Varuni herself by way of adding connections that are not there?

The same collection with the almost-Janguli woman also has this:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/1/8/4/18432.jpg





which is Nine Nagas, which is similar to the syncretic site's version. The piece has no date, origin, or anything.

As far as an "uncoiled" naga or Nag Kanya, those certainly exist:

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/upload/editor/images/image3-23.jpeg




The most concrete things so far are Green Janguli and Sarvadurgati Parishodana, which has the Skorupski translation, or, Sanskrit original (http://www.dsbcproject.org/canon-text/content/730/2858), which gives:

anantaṃ
takṣakaṃ caiva karkoṭaṃ kulikaṃ tathā||

vāsukiṃ śaṃkhapālaṃ
ca padmaṃ vai vāruṇaṃ tathā||


When you use that list, you get Varuna whose shakti is obviously Varuni, except that one is Mother Varuni, and the one we use is Varuni, Daughter of Varuni, who I guess loops back to the beginning as Ananta Shakti. Hold on, what do you mean, the first one has the daughter of the last one?

That converts me to Shentong just by even seeing it.

"Phana" is the word for "Hood", whose definition links to:

https://www.wisdomlib.org/uploads/photos/nagakanya-detail-of-head.jpg



This bronze sculpture shows an image of Nagakanya (detail of head), from the 20th century A.D.—This image of Nagakanya is seated on Makara, under the canopy of a nine-hooded serpent (naga-phana) with her right hand holding a conch.

It is Hindu from Nepal.

This subject is full of circles, zeros, and infinity symbols, it just wraps all around and through itself.

[Old Student]

However, it is not intended to be a description of how ordinary humans perceive their world;[8] rather, it is the universe as seen through the divyacakṣus दिव्यचक्षुः (Pāli: dibbacakkhu दिब्बचक्खु), the "divine eye" by which a Buddha or an arhat who has cultivated this faculty can perceive all of the other worlds and the beings arising (being born) and passing away (dying) within them, and can tell from what state they have been reborn and into what state they will be reborn.

There is a "them" in this statement that is anomalous -- "...can perceive...within them,...". I think given the context (Wiki) it is probably "within the other worlds", but if it were not, and were "a Buddha or arhat" being referenced, then it is a statement of why I had singled that quote out as clarifying what was meant by Buddhist worlds.

In the (seemingly endless) sutra I'm reading, Avatamsaka, entire systems of worlds are within the body of a Buddha, to the extreme in places that there are infinite worlds within each of his pores.

I singled it out because of a more aware feeling of embodying worlds upon worlds that is now part of some of the experiences in my shaking. I don't often have awareness of it "from the outside observer" point of view but on those occasions that I do, the inside of me appears vast, and contained in the Buddha or with boundaries like a huge meditating Buddha. The opposite feeling has only shown up in the past 3 nights, and that is a "pressing" of my clear body against the skin of my physical body so that they are coincident up to an infinitessimal layer of liquid (almost all liquids in my shaking are composed of bliss) between them, which is some kind of power "stance" -- it isn't a pose but it executes poses, and is sometimes clothed as a shaman. The two "visions" of body are ends of a spectrum, but ultimately the shaman body perception acts in a world that is inside of the Buddha body perception and the Buddha body perception is located in one of the layers between the skins of the shaman perception -- which doesn't make much sense but it is how it seems. I am being worked both on establishing internal "objects" which are all "Buddhist" and "power poses" which are all "shaman". All of these "workings" end with a requirement that I produce -- rather than just listen while they produce -- the pillar, which in this version is a silvery line along my centerline with two "fineals" at the ends which are what we would normally call 'drops' but in my notes are 'onions' -- red at my perineum, white at my crown. And the "manager" for this operation is Sukhasiddhi rather than Mandarava.


(Arya ananta mukha sadhaka nama dharani)

It seems to have "riffs" of other mantras embedded in it.


I would lean towards disposing of the "mukhi" or goddess implication, except the dharani obviously uses Sarasvati and Vimala, so, she isn't leaving, even if it is supposed to be a male-based thing for monks.

With respect to Nagakanya, that she is Vayumukhi and holds a conch seems to say she is the wind through the conch that produces the sound, and maybe that the sound calls her?


When you use that list, you get Varuna whose shakti is obviously Varuni, except that one is Mother Varuni, and the one we use is Varuni, Daughter of Varuni, who I guess loops back to the beginning as Ananta Shakti. Hold on, what do you mean, the first one has the daughter of the last one?

So then does Shakti become Revati when looped back to the beginning? This seems to be a vision of a kalpa as a creation of shakti, which is an interesting way of seeing time.

[shaberon]

In the (seemingly endless) sutra I'm reading, Avatamsaka, entire systems of worlds are within the body of a Buddha, to the extreme in places that there are infinite worlds within each of his pores.

Yes, that is the primary source for the "infinitesimal" descriptions along the lines of "more numerous than sand grains of the Ganges" and so forth. There is, for example, an Amitayus, in each of whose pores is a Hayagriva with an un-named consort resembling him. There are many "applications" of what Avatamsaka has presented as "complete worlds". I suppose it is the same thing on a different scale.



All of these "workings" end with a requirement that I produce -- rather than just listen while they produce -- the pillar, which in this version is a silvery line along my centerline with two "fineals" at the ends which are what we would normally call 'drops' but in my notes are 'onions' -- red at my perineum, white at my crown. And the "manager" for this operation is Sukhasiddhi rather than Mandarava.

Yours are self-arisen, whereas, for most of us, we would have to concentrate to get any image. I have never seen a Drop. I have felt them. I know at least something of what they can do, in the way that you could actually ride a bicycle with your eyes closed.

What they do is something that can be seen, i. e. such as revealing the Void.

This silvery line is perhaps the most important part, being thin and easy to crimp. Heat and getting it to rise to the head are not necessarily that difficult, but, this one may take some finesse.


(Arya ananta mukha sadhaka nama dharani)

It seems to have "riffs" of other mantras embedded in it.

Yes, many of them share parts. There are bunches that start like Mahakarunika, there are groups that have Kha Kha Khahi, there are ones that take Janguli's Illie Milie, and probably very few of them really start from scratch.

The weird thing about Green Janguli is that she has no spawn sequence. Most of hers are pretty simple like just using a Jah, or, actually a Jam syllable, but this one is just there. It says this is the explanation of her Heart Practice, gives the mantra, says do ten thousand repetitions and something about that, and then there are no syllables or disks or any of the usual apparatus, just:

prathamaṃ tāvan mantrī ātmānam īdṛśaṃ cintayet kumāryākāraṃ haritavarṇaṃ

The title Mahayogeshvari is given to Durga and Parvati and since it is also on Durgottarini Tara, it is evident as meaning Durga there, and since Janguli is virtually called Parvati, then it can easily mean likewise for her. She is also called Haimavati and Kasmira, and everything is doubly odd since her name means Jungle Girl.

It has been said that neither Janguli nor Cinnamasta ever gained popularity in Tibet.

I like them. Janguli is a Dharani that we can use and we at least are able to praise her. Cinnamasta is a different state of being altogether.



With respect to Nagakanya, that she is Vayumukhi and holds a conch seems to say she is the wind through the conch that produces the sound, and maybe that the sound calls her?

Wind, as Prana, most likely, the Conch is usually considered an intricate part of the brain, the Pineal or something, which gets touched by kundalini to produce samadhi. I was a bit puzzled by "Vayumukhi", which, in context, would suggest Shakti of Vayu, which would be difficult since he isn't a Naga. Sankhini is one of the "kinds of women" in Chakrasamvara literature, and, as a Dakini, continues through Vajradaka Tantra into the Big Heruka or Dakarnava.

Here is an intense Kurukulla (https://kaulapedia.com/en/kurukulla/) page which explains Vayumukhi as "gods dwelling at the speed of wind". Otherwise it has almost no existence. It is among 1000 Names of Maharajni (https://templesinindiainfo.com/1000-names-of-sri-maharajni-sahasranama-stotram-lyrics-in-english/) who appears to be Raja Rajeshwari, whom I believe is Matangi, and if Buddhism does not show Janguli as Naga or Nag Kanya, she has erred in the direction of absorbing Matangi.

Mahattari Tara is a different "kind of woman"...I was puzzled when I saw "Lady of the Bedchamber" but it is actually one of many of the kinds of Stri (Women) of a Royal Harem which is actually number thirteen and translated as Matron (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/stri#natyashastra). The Mahattarika definition for some reason refers to Kadambari (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kadambari), a special kind of wine relished by Balarama, made from water accumulated in a Kadamba tree, with honey.

Tara, Tari, or Tarika consistently has the meaning of a boat or "ferry-woman", and so how this is meaningful to the Matron of a Harem, I am not sure, I understand the one from the sadhanas better. Janguli is the type of Yidam which can probably give me personally the most comprehensive wisdom I can absorb, however, it is a Tara proceeding from Mahattari that I would seek as a guide to the Akanistha, a main form of Refuge, through Death itself.



So then does Shakti become Revati when looped back to the beginning? This seems to be a vision of a kalpa as a creation of shakti, which is an interesting way of seeing time.

I guess Revati is really the last/27th lunar mansion mostly in Pisces but does mark the beginning of Aries as well. The beginning is opposite Spica. That is how the sidereal system keeps time.

Ananta Shakti is Daughter Varuni who "would be" Ananta Mukhi if the same naming scheme applied.

If Varuna is the last Naga, then Mother Varuni is the last shakti and would be Varuna Mukhi.

That is what I meant by "loop", it is Varuni looping if one follows that particular Naga pattern. It wouldn't even matter what her synonyms are--Ananta has the daughter and Varuna the mother by definition.

It is about as weird as Ekajati in Vajra Panjara Tantra, offspring becoming their own parents.


Varuni is apparently related to Revati in that:

Urmila = Naga Lakshmi = Varuni and Revati combined

Revati = Naga Lakshmi next incarnation with Balarama

The whole basis of Indian metaphysics is there, since it is giving the two main generations, i. e. Urmila is from the time of Rama and Lakshman, while Revati is from the time of Krishna and Balarama; these two generations being the two main/most popular/most informative Vishnu incarnations, associated with the two main national epics, Ramayana and Mahabharata.

Since we were told Bharati is Draupadi in Mahabharata, the "common wife" of the Pandus, according to HPB, this means the human personality as the "common wife" of the senses. Perhaps it is slightly higher than just Rupa Skandha, since it takes more skandhas to create a personality. Maybe it is Vijnana Skandha.


As a Lunar Mansion, Revati takes up thirteen degrees, but, as an asterism, is at the end of this or around Zeta Piscium, on the cusp, auspicious for beginnings:

Śrī Kṛṣṇa started on his journey at the auspicious moment of Maitra on the star Revatī in the month of Kārttika.

Revati is present in the Dharmadhatu Vagisvara mandala, is white; all of the Lunar Mansions are in it. This mandala is the Dharmakaya or is the "ceiling" to the Kalachakra "floor" which Buddha displayed together at Amaravati.

DDV won't tell us anything more. If I ask Sadhanamala, there is only one possible response, which is in the weird Pancha Raksa 206 after giving Pratisara's items and faces and that she has many jewels, she is:

mahābala%kramā raudraveśā vaṭavṛkṣopa-
śobhitā saptamātrādidevatāsantrāsanakarī revatyādigrahāṇāṃ
santrāsitamanāḥ vāsukyādyaṣṭanāgasantrāsanakarī vāta-
pittaśleṣmādisaṃśodhanakarī raudratamo 'ndhakārameghasphuṭanakarī
sarvvāpamṛtyunivāraṇakarī /

This is before casting her retinue. Without being able to fully read it, one can still pick out:

Mahabala Krama sounds like a way of adjoining wrathful deities, the Nadir, or Underworld, or Bali Offerings.

Raudravesa means Possessed by Raudra.

Seven Mothers and other Devatas Santrasanakari (protection syllable Tra as in Samtrasani and Mantra?)

Revati Adi Grahan (Revati the first planet?)

similar to the next line:

Vasuki Adi Asta Naga Santrasanakari (Vasuki the head or chief of eight nagas?)

Vata-Pitta sounds like Ayurvedic Humor.

It is not like Pratisara is singing the alphabet of moon signs, she refers only to Revati in a way that may mean first, but, in the context of the next line, would almost make sense as Headmistress of Planets.

Adi is a complicated term. If Adi Buddha was first, it made little difference to us, until a Buddha manifested, which means a human being awakened to the full samadhi of Adi Buddha. This offspring is its own parent? Something like that.

Why would a Tathagata or Previously Established Buddha be inside what I would call my own personal Purified Jealousy?

What we call the passages of time is simply a way for us to organize the apparent motion of transitional states of consciousness.

Because they are under duality or Maya, none of those transitional states are real.

Now if there is such a thing as an Event Horizon, what this means mathematically is that all of time would be compressed, all of eternity would reside there in a single instant. That, so to speak, is physical perception at light speed. Everything would appear simultaneous.

If such a thing were physically real, the energy would of course vaporize any kind of being, "you" could not go there. But if such a thing were mentally real, you could do it.

It is as if when consciousness becomes more refined, it perceives smaller and smaller instants, and at the same time, capable of picturing a larger and larger "now" or "moment" or continuity of consciousness. Instead of being able to recall the previous five hours of the day in ten minute parcels, you remember five hundred years broken down into attoseconds.

In my experience, this sensation is in step with the changes in appearance to Light.

[shaberon]

Although Janguli is "not popular" in Tibet, she is significant to Krisna Yamari Tantra, as well as directly to Tara.

From my experience, I am a bit bewildered by some of the actual presentations of "Buddhism for the West", such as Vajrayogini--Cinnamasta and Kalachakra. It seems a bit like going commercial, like an advertisement. However, "Tara for the West" was probably a much better thing, even I could use her successfully. That is in her common basic mode of Removing Fears, and/or quelling mental and emotional disturbances. Rather basic. Important, but, then, when asking about who she is or why she might have twenty-one forms, it got very confusing.

However the "main basic" Green Tara is still very occultly advanced, even just starting with her and her common mantra. And so if I know that "this" is an effective power which I have already accomplished, why would she not carry me into the next stage?


One small paragraph in Sadhanamala is equal to a major practice which continues to this day. Outside of Nepal, we have found Mahattari Tara with the title "Varendra Vana Iccha", and, as a potent figure in Kubjika Tantra, although we would have to find another copy of Sat Sahasra Samhita to back this up. Otherwise, she is non-existent, unknown, but is a type of Anuttara or Unsurpassed puja in Nepal. We have found the information, but not examined it much.

This practice is intended to take place within Guru Yoga, and before Tara is summoned, you do Outer and Inner worship (bahyadhyatmyapuja), a Seven Limb practice, and establish Sunyata. Even Shiva's Guru Yoga (https://www.siddhayoga.org/practice/puja/exposition-guru-puja) explains Outer and Inner as Offerings and Manasa Japa, with the feeling of Bhava, which is what makes it real, instead of a routine. Shakta Yoni Puja (https://hridaya-yoga.com/yoni-puja/) based in the couple Mahamaya and Sadashiva is similar, and also shows an interesting group of Five Liquids starting from Yogurt--Earth Element and so on. At any rate, this Puja does not teach these preliminaries, you would have to implement your own before Tara is generated.

Sri Arya Tara having Vajra Feet and a Flaming Blue Lotus, by herself, is Mahattari Tara.

She is only there for a moment, and then is re-cast with a retinue.

The second or likely Varada Tara uses Green or Syama Janguli which is the same color as herself--although this sounds darker than Harita or "green like priyangu fruit" as she is when alone. By the descriptions of the goddesses as "on the sides", then Mayuri is closer to Marici, and Janguli is closer to Ekajati.

One does Adhisthana Consecrations and a bodily protection or Nyasa.

Most of the Nyasa placements use Hum, but, there is:

om vajrayaksa hum. sire thiye. om aryatara hrim. kathusa thiye.

Further along is something similar to Pramardani, then Time and Death, and Dhanada Tara:

om marasainyapramardanaya hum. nugale thiye. om hum kalamrtyuprasamanaya hum. javagu pull thiye. om hum dhanadayai hum. khavagu puli thiye. om vasudharayai hum. jadhu thiye.


This does not go away, it makes a mandala, into which Akanistha Tara is Hooked:

akanisthabhuvanasthittm sriaryataram mandale akarsanena bhavayet.


It says to worship the Tathagatas and forty Taras without explaining what this means, it is just a strand of mantras, such as:

om aryatarayai vajradhatumandale svaha. [she is not normally associated with the male-based Vajradhatu Mandala like this]

om dharmadhatave namah svaha.

aryavairocanaya svaha. om aksobhyaya svaha. om ratnasambhavaya svaha. om amitabhaya svaha. om amoghasiddhaye svaha.

aryatarayai svaha.

puspatarayai svaha. dhupatarayai svaha. dipatarayai svaha. gandhatarayai svaha. rasatarayai svaha. [Five Offerings]


prasannatarayai svaha. suklatarayai svaha. dhanadatarayai svaha. [three explanatory Sadhanamala deities and second Dhanada]

locanatarayai svaha. mamakitarayai svaha. pandaratarayai svaha. tarayai svaha. [Four Elements or Prajnas]

bhrkutitarayai svaha. saptalocanitarayai svaha. [the second being an addition by Atisha]

svetatarayai svaha. nilatarayai svaha. pitatarayai svaha. raktatarayai svaha. syamatarayai svaha. [Five Colors]

siddhilocanitarayai svaha. vajratarayai svaha. ekajatitarayai svaha. yogatarayai svaha. bhuvanatarayai svaha. candratarayai
svaha. suryatarayai svaha. mangalatarayai svaha.

hasyatarayai svaha. lasyatarayai svaha. rasarangatarayai svaha. mahamangalatarayai svaha. sumangalatarayai svaha. sampurnaghatatarayai svaha. dviparajatarayai svaha. basantatarayai svaha.

dharmatarayai svaha. punyatarayai svaha. sriaryatarayai svaha. vajratarayai svaha. [there is a synonym of Achi --Dharma Tara--and finally a second instance of Vajra Tara]

om vajrapuspam praticcha svaha. [more flowers, not a name]


Towards the end, there is Dance, Song, the Tathagatas, and two more named Taras:

aryataramahadevimahattaritarayai namo namah/
prasannataradevim Sri to to tare namastu to//

Mahadevi happens to be the title for the Queen of the Harem, it is as if the Matron has become Queen by enduring this rite, followed by the second appearance of Prasanna, who is the quite powerful Amrita Locana.

The end is innocuous enough:

naivedya. mata. yedharma.
thana makutapuja yaye. iti sriaryatara samadhi samaptam.

But this Puja is the Crown Ceremony or Acharya Abhiseka (https://dharmapunya2019.org/symposium/abstracts.html).

We would have to do it symbolicly, perhaps study the Diadem Initiation or how it is a seal to the Families. Because the rite has created an Akanistha or Sambhogakaya environment, then this part could perhaps be used for Dharmakaya.

[Old Student]

Yours are self-arisen, whereas, for most of us, we would have to concentrate to get any image. I have never seen a Drop. I have felt them. I know at least something of what they can do, in the way that you could actually ride a bicycle with your eyes closed.

What they do is something that can be seen, i. e. such as revealing the Void.

This silvery line is perhaps the most important part, being thin and easy to crimp. Heat and getting it to rise to the head are not necessarily that difficult, but, this one may take some finesse.

In the current exercises, I have to do the "quiet order" to make these things visible, and I have been let know that I am responsible for getting that done, and that they want it done during all of the power pose lessons, no exceptions -- the "quiet order" is a thing where they want me to quiet my "chatterer" but the quiet they taught and want me to impose is over my entire body from the inside -- kind of a meditational silence rather than a push hands silence. It took an eon in shaking time (a couple of weeks) to be able to keep moving while I was doing this -- several days just to not stop breathing.

The most difficult part is the top one since I'm not yet very adept at "focusing" at my crown (they just moved to instructing on there with that vision I told you about with the hair on fire thing).

The silver line is the "thin" version of the pillar. It is the pillar "of all souls" since it is filled with faces of people, seemingly a huge crowd of them. The "thick" version looks kind of like a very huge Greek pillar (Doric), it is grounded in my navel area after a dissolve into "brown skinned earth" and the appearance at its base of a bucolic scene worthy of some of the 19th century painters. I won't try to describe how it can be coming out of my waist and also a pillar between my perineum and crown. But moving upwards, there are clouds around it in the middle (my heart area and just above) with lightning in them, and at the top is a rainbow in which things can be seen in the droplets. That's the version that I can "walk into" (just kind of walk through the surface of it) and do lucid dreaming inside.

This is the thin version. I'm not sure why they want it always lit up when I am working on their power poses, but they make various versions of the two drops, sometimes they are the two moons, sometimes the onions/drops. Always one is creation in this life and the other is a place that leads to, I guess, the Bardo on the inside, and a set of nature scenes illustrating the transition of decaying things to germinating ones on the outside.


The title Mahayogeshvari is given to Durga and Parvati and since it is also on Durgottarini Tara, it is evident as meaning Durga there, and since Janguli is virtually called Parvati, then it can easily mean likewise for her. She is also called Haimavati and Kasmira, and everything is doubly odd since her name means Jungle Girl.

Always Durga! I've heard that for some people in Eastern India, she is what they mean when they say "Devi" and she is also what they mean when they say "Shakti".


Wind, as Prana, most likely, the Conch is usually considered an intricate part of the brain, the Pineal or something, which gets touched by kundalini to produce samadhi. I was a bit puzzled by "Vayumukhi", which, in context, would suggest Shakti of Vayu, which would be difficult since he isn't a Naga. Sankhini is one of the "kinds of women" in Chakrasamvara literature, and, as a Dakini, continues through Vajradaka Tantra into the Big Heruka or Dakarnava.

Probably the hippocampus and surrounds. Westerners thought it looked like a seahorse. But conch works, too.


Here is an intense Kurukulla page which explains Vayumukhi as "gods dwelling at the speed of wind".

Interesting page, this (Nath) version of Kurukulla has a trident with Kankan naga around it and a flower, but during the explanations, the author refers to her "hook". Also interesting the discussion about Moha and Viraha.


Ananta Shakti is Daughter Varuni who "would be" Ananta Mukhi if the same naming scheme applied.

If Varuna is the last Naga, then Mother Varuni is the last shakti and would be Varuna Mukhi.

That is what I meant by "loop", it is Varuni looping if one follows that particular Naga pattern. It wouldn't even matter what her synonyms are--Ananta has the daughter and Varuna the mother by definition.



Two things come to mind, Ananta and Varuna are both forms of the infinite (infinite partitions of time, the ocean), and that in the West there is also a snake related to time, the Worm Ourobouros (hope I spelled that right).


What we call the passages of time is simply a way for us to organize the apparent motion of transitional states of consciousness.

Interesting. In physics, it's a strange dimension altered by the speed of light.


Now if there is such a thing as an Event Horizon, what this means mathematically is that all of time would be compressed, all of eternity would reside there in a single instant. That, so to speak, is physical perception at light speed. Everything would appear simultaneous.

If such a thing were physically real, the energy would of course vaporize any kind of being, "you" could not go there. But if such a thing were mentally real, you could do it.

The event horizon might have a "memory" of all things that passed through it with the advent of extensive theories of quantum entanglement. There's a new (2012) theory that multiple entanglements happen and a bunch of other stuff at the event horizon which looks like a "curtain of fire". That's to account for that memory bleeding off with a memory of something else instead. Somebody took a picture of a black hole last year:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/S_GVbuddri8/maxresdefault.jpg

[shaberon]

Two things come to mind, Ananta and Varuna are both forms of the infinite (infinite partitions of time, the ocean), and that in the West there is also a snake related to time, the Worm Ourobouros (hope I spelled that right).

Yes.

In Chaldea it was called Tiamat, elsewhere Typhon, Chaos, and so forth.

Varuni is also Makara Rider I believe, When we look at this form, it is like the rider from the unknown, in those terms.

When we have looked at all the tantric subjects and all the things we say about Indra, those are all things we don't say about Varuna, and yet the mundane medicinal Indivara is unidentified but possibly is Indravāruṇī (Citrullus colocynthis).

As a Dharani, Janguli is white and has two arms and her personal item is a poisonous flower bud according to Bhattacharya, but, he gave from his NSP the term Puspamanjari (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/pushpamanjarika), which is Indivara as Blue Lotus. The word for poison is inscrutable.

Mahattari Tara is sanālendīvaradharāṃ or Indivara sa (with) anala (fire), and her Indivara is always called a Blue Lotus. I am still unaware of anyone harping on the fact it is not nilotpala like any other Tara has.

Her association to Varendra means North Bengal.

Varuna is in what would be called in the Puranic Theosophical terms the Buddhic Plane. In other words "above the Voids" of the Manasic or Akashic Plane, and, indeed, is the Ocean which Tara for instance ferries one to.

So we just don't talk about it hardly at all. That is why the Buddhist system of seven does not really match these planes, because it is talking about operative principles in Manas. What we are doing is joining Manas to Buddhi, which is the Occult Wedding of Ganesh to Siddhi and Dhatri (Ganapati Hrdaya).

Makara Rider goes there and that is why we find her with Sri Devi Laksmi whom we have found is Kama Loka as a whole, or, rather, its Element and Prajna or Ishvari, which is Suffering to anyone below the rank of Anangamin.

We personally require Varuna's offspring Varuni in order to do it.

We are relying on volumes of tantra called "Jala".

What is this to the Inverted Stupa...the White Circle of Citta Chakra, Varuna Mandala.

Frequently, Sri as Palden Lhamo is shown with multiple attendants including Wrathful Sarasvati, but what is doubly bizarre about Makara Rider is that she is leading Sri's mule. Sri in this style (Kamadhatvishvari), has four arms. Only Makaravaktra is shown, the two kinds of Sarasvati have vanished:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/9/2/3/9235.jpg




The creature is considered an Elephant Crocodile. And so if you get the gist of what these names and roles are saying, this particular statue is extraordinarily profound.

That Chamunda-esque thing is the Shakti I am positive about, which makes it seem like others that work like a Mace or a Broom or something are just lying around to be taken.

That is why it is like Sitayana or Book of Lakshmi from the first Namasangiti Dharani to this. That is why Mahasri Tara is the object of Mahattari's exercise, is the one called from Akanistha. Attainment along these lines produces Golden Light.

Part of the meaning of the eyes on Sri's mule is they see the future. Here, Makaravaktra as part Kila leads Sri as Nagi Remati:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/535px/4/0/5/40589.jpg




I can't really say anything about the actual Varuna. I can say all of these practices lead there.

[Old Student]

Mahattari Tara is sanālendīvaradharāṃ or Indivara sa (with) anala (fire), and her Indivara is always called a Blue Lotus. I am still unaware of anyone harping on the fact it is not nilotpala like any other Tara has.

This sounds distinctly like it is not supposed to be all blue, but rather with fire (possibly more colors). Nilotpala is a light to dark indigo blue flower.


Varuna is in what would be called in the Puranic Theosophical terms the Buddhic Plane. In other words "above the Voids" of the Manasic or Akashic Plane, and, indeed, is the Ocean which Tara for instance ferries one to.

This is an interesting twist. Tara ferries on to there how?


Frequently, Sri as Palden Lhamo is shown with multiple attendants including Wrathful Sarasvati, but what is doubly bizarre about Makara Rider is that she is leading Sri's mule. Sri in this style (Kamadhatvishvari), has four arms. Only Makaravaktra is shown, the two kinds of Sarasvati have vanished:

I looked at the Sri Devi (Dudsol) page for Himalayan Arts, they say she should have either a trident or a mongoose in her upper left hand, this one has what looks like an ax.


That Chamunda-esque thing is the Shakti I am positive about, which makes it seem like others that work like a Mace or a Broom or something are just lying around to be taken.

The top picture (sculpture) doesn't seem as conforming as the thangka below.

[shaberon]

I mis-spoke again horribly.

I am trying to internalize everything I learn, and, when it comes out crooked, I have to figure it out. I overlooked his first wife.

Ganesh is extremely important, as in the Three Reds of Sakya, he is in the top tier beyond Bharati. If Bharati is an indication of almost everything we can express about Yoga practice, what is left?

Ganesh appears to have much to do with automatic/involuntary/natural law processes. He is why Jupiter is a mini-sun and is not really the Guru of people, but a necessary adjunct.

Ganesh has much to do with Hayagriva, immortality, and the Aswins.

He may have various individual practices in Buddhism, but, historically, Ganesh and the Gandharvas were Wrathfuls, who were subdued by Avalokiteshvara or Tara near Mathura. And then this "angry elephant" shows up riding a Mouse.

His emphasis even on a Dharani basis is Ganapati Hrdaya, but, he is really having two wives.

The first wife is Buddhi, which is Matangi, Ucchista Candali.

The other wife is Siddhi, which is Gauri or Lajja Gauri, Siddhidhatri, Annapurna.

Ganesh with both wives is called Lakshmi Ganesh.


Because Matangi is enfolded into Buddhist Janguli, then, it should be up for consideration that perhaps Janguli is Buddhi and is Ganesh's first major destination. Gauri has more to do with upholding the Vow and producing Accomplishment. Like Varuna, I cannot say much about the real Annapurna, other than being the timeless goddess of Kashi--Benares, and being the main goal of an Inner Homa. If Kurukulla is like a saturation of one's head, Annapurna is like a billion billion of these filling Infinite Space. In her aspect as Gauri, it has to do with Vermillion Mark, Robed in White, and so forth, which Buddha calls "the first Gauri", not to be confused with "the Gauris" which are Generation Stage.

Matangi comes from the same background as Parnasabari:

Sabari was a yogini in the Ramayana who honored Ram and directed him to Hanuman. Her preceptor was Matangi. Satsahasra Samhita places five goddesses under Green Mahattari: Matangi, Pulindi, Sabari, Campaka, Kubjika: five Jnanas in the continuous stream of Kula and Akula (Shakti and Bhairava), corresponding to senses.

That makes sense. Hanuman found Sita. Hanuman is the "organized, harmonious" Vayu, Maruts, or Prana; Sabari is dressed in Neem leaves and is medicine, so, would definitely "direct" someone to psychic health. Saying that Hanuman found Sita is almost exactly the same thing as saying Buddha's Wisdom is only found by harnessing the Life Winds. It is not mental in the ordinary Sarasvati sense of being a philosophy or regular learning, it is tantric Sarasvati, which is Matangi and Janguli.


Ganesh is employed in Agni Homa, which combines everything, such as the Fire of Wisdom. Jnanagni resides at Arunchala, the fire lingam, the largest one, which is almost directly opposite Macchu Pichu. When Ahamkara (Ego) is burned in Jnanagni, the person becomes Nandi. Sacred form of Taurus, Shiva's Bull who is led by Shaila Putri. It was the Bull's Eye or Pleiades that stole Agni's seeds and became Maya in the first place.

Ganesh is like Jivanmukta or the liberated blend of divine light and primordial sound: Generally, Jivanmukhta (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/jivanmukta) means liberated while in the body, instead of Videhamukhta, liberated at death. However its very first definition is Nirvikalpa Samadhi.


Even as Hindu yoga, it is supposed to produce radiance from Tapas:

Everything that is seen and experienced through senses and mind is called the known. jyoti light. While performing nadisuddhi the yogi meditates on vayu bija, accompanied with light, i. e. Vital Air, at the time of inhaling with the candranada (left nostril) and on the avani tattva and light accompanied with the repetition of vahni bija, at the time of inhaling with the surya nadi (right nostril). jyoti--2nd sign: jyotirdhyana—one of the three forms of dhyana, the other two being sthula (body or hatha) and suksma. This jyotir dhyana brings success in yoga and leads to self-realization.

Tejodhyana (Fire by Friction dhyana) is said to be a hundred times superior to sthuladhyana. In this dhyana while the yogi is meditating, he sees a light and fixes his mind on that. The light which the yogi sees is an inner light and not a light outside which he can perceive. This light is neither, strictly speaking, an image nor a perception. It is an image only in so far as it is independent of retinal stimulation, but it lacks the characteristics of an image; viz., flicker and flow, unsteadiness and independence of spatial relations. It is steady like a perception but much more vivid than an ordinary perceived light and it is localized, ordinarily in the yogi’s head.

A yogi who is successful in bhramari kumbhaka hears certain inner sounds which blend with the light that he sees; and the yogi’s mind is fixed on this blend (Celestial Solar Ganesh). Thus the sound, the light and the knowing mind become one jyoti. Lustre of purusa. Bhuh, bhuvah and svah refer to the jyoti in the sun which has the form of agnihotra in the orb of purusa.

jyotirinavukha, ray of light. Rays of light are seen by the person who tries to fix his mind on the space in front of him. Yogis are advised to meditate on the big ray of light seen in the front part of the root of the upper palate.

Such a person may see jvala for two days before dying.



Tejas or Fire by Friction appears similar to Sarasvati and Nirmanakaya and an established mantra field. The other two Agnis of the Three-in-One relate to Lashmi--the ostensible one is Maha Maya, which is what she is, and what she teaches, is the magic for humans, and the other is the Dark or Deep Sleep or Nidra or Urmila, which is related to Kavacha or Armor.

Yoga Maya is that of Tamas or Darkness Guna, generally governed by Parvati and Sesha. When Balarama married Revati, Yogmaya had to conceal this event. Lakshmana is also considered avatar of Sesha.

There is no big explanation or practice of Yoga Maya, it is for Devas, and this is reflected by taking Jupiter or Deva Guru not too literally, but acquiring his power of Kavya or Poetry, which is in everything, potentially.


During creation, garuḍa emanates as the abhimāni (presiding deity) of citta, śeṣa of cetana, and rudra of ahaṅkāra. Similarly, umā emanates as the abhimāninī of buddhi, and vāruṇī and sauparṇī [garuda consort] as that of manas-tattva.

If it says Uma is Buddhi, and Uma is Parvati, and Parvati is Janguli, and Matangi is Buddhi and Matangi is Janguli, the worst we can do is wonder why tropical jungle goddesses have appeared in the mountains. If it says Varuni is Manas Tattva, she is the Akashic plane, meaning her "Kha--Sky Element" that is invoked into the Soma is not a physical one period, it is the Noumenal one with energy of the Voids.


Ganesh is the antararupa (inner form) of Brihaspati. Ganesha is the lord of beginnings and represents the angirasa (messenger), between the lower pashava (animate) and the manava (kingdom) for linking them with the celestials. Ganesha himself also helps us to connect all languages together from their primal level of manas or the mind or mati (thought).

Angirasa is also a proper name for the sage of Jupiter who summoned Pratyangira. Here, we are dealing with the first cosmic event:

The Guru rivalry at First War in Heaven was Sukra studying under Angirasa, who favored his own son Brihaspati (Angiras; Indra also favored him). Sukra, who has better skills, then went to Sage Gautama and obtained Mrita Sanjivani mantra (can raise the dead). Bhrigu is the husband of Kavya Mata and curses Vishnu and uses the mantra on her. Then Tara left Jupiter for the Moon, i. e. descent into form.

Indra favors the Jupiter line, and does not like Sukra or the low-born Aswins. So, again, we are not really listening to the default Indra, we are just setting him up into place as the humble reflection of Varuna.


A little further along during manifestation, Vishnu's minor avatar was going to kill Hayagriva, who could only be killed by another Hayagriva. Vishnu was decapitated by his own bow string, and given a white horse head to do the job. So, it is not just for looks, it was a utilitarian, real, functional head, like with Dadhyan and Horse Head rite. This has to do with Pravargya, preparatory to Soma. It makes milk preparations such as Ghee and Yogurt, and consecrates milk/water with Solar Fire and Vital Air, and then is poured into a Horse's Head. Dadhyan is invoked first, followed by Ushas, the Aswins, and Agni.

This is related to the Riddle Hymn (https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv01164.htm) of Rg Veda 1.164, which, itself, is worth about forty pages in this paper (http://www.academicroom.com/article/ritual-pragmatics-vedic-hymn%3A-%22riddle-hymn%22-and-pravargya-ritual).

Mipham's Wind Horse invocation has a stanza for Hayagriva followed by one for Ganesh.

All of this concatenates. Once it is rendered in a Buddhist Manner, Agni Homa contains part and parcel the entire Vajrayana along with selective or refined knowledge and practice related to Lakshmi and the Epics, Puranas, etc.

Once you add what Mipham calls "the root of all these sadhanas", i. e. the principle of Seven, everything becomes fully attached.

[shaberon]

This sounds distinctly like it is not supposed to be all blue, but rather with fire (possibly more colors). Nilotpala is a light to dark indigo blue flower.

For this one, it was only a 13th-century Ayurveda book which offered six synonyms for different kinds of plants. In Pali or Sanskrit, the main sense of it is Blue Lotus. As such, it appears individually in Sadhanamala several times, and several more in compounds such as:

nīlendīvaradhāriṇam

Right before Mahattari is Khadira, who is:

tāṃbījapariṇatendīvaraṃ

So her seed syllable Tam becomes Indivara.

Mahacina Krama Tara has:

khaḍgendīvarakartrikarpitabhujā

Sukla Kurukulla 180:

hrīḥkārabījajanitendīvaraṃ

Her seed syllable Hrih becomes an Indivara.

The one with Mahattari is the only one where it is combined with fire. In that sense, there is some wiggle room, although I could argue that hydrogen flame is blue and it is the hottest part of a normal fire. It could easily be yellow or orange. There are not normally such things as red flames. But this is magical fire. Perhaps it is so strong the lotus cannot actually be seen? Maybe it is white, pink, or purple? When combined into the phrases meaning "fire at the end of the world", it could even be black.

Just like arrows, different names of lotuses may mean different colors, such as Kamala. A Fiery Lotus would be a normal symbol for a chakra.


This is an interesting twist. Tara ferries on to there how?

Well, if we say, specifically, to "the Buddhic plane?" Or "to Buddhi?" In the old days it would not have hit very hard; sometimes, buddhi is almost dismissed as part of intellect, or, as the slightly more exalted intuition, or just a Kosha or sheath of the aura. However, when asked what he was, at Enlightenment, Gautama Siddartha said "I am Awake", that is, Buddha. He had fully expanded (like a naga hood) the same thing which we may have awakened, but only partially expanded.

Previous Yogas enabled one to attain Nirvana, but, his is the school which helps impart it to others.

So it would be like saying, how does Tara awaken and expand me?

A general concept is that the light of Vajrasattva is purifying, whereas the light of Tara fills one with Buddha Qualities.

Om Tare Tuttare Ture Svaha

Tare is the invocative form of Tara, and, Ture is "swiftly". She is fast, she will come to you. She is very eminent. If I was to go around suggesting...you shouldn't just try to pick up and use Dudsolma, or Mahakala, or Jnana Dakini, or anything like that, the opposite would be true of Tara. If you are not even Buddhist you can ask her.

Repairing blockages in the Avadhut is what she does, her twenty-one forms are twenty-one aspects of Dharmakaya found by loosening the knots.

Decades ago, the "for the west" trend presented her to us as the solace for mental and emotional problems. If you are a troubled person, she can straighten you out. I am living proof of this. I have troubles these days which are karma, i. e., something happens, whereas the others were self-arisen problems. Like at any moment, or, at all moments, your mind collapses into something insane or very disturbing. I mean, I understand all those things that...H. H. Dalai Lama does not--he said so.

Nothing else helped me.

Further along, even with the ability to line up tons of tantric information to show the staggering implications of Vidyujjvalikarali Ekajati and Marici Vajradhatvishvari, I would still say oh, that's Tara.

She is the shakti of Amoghasiddhi, and he is the Master of Occultism.

I am not really talking about Manjushri, I am gathering and relaying information about him. I am talking about Tara.

If the Prajnas are Taras such as Pandara Tara or Mamaki Tara, then, there is nothing to be gained which isn't Tara. Having the Prajnas means you have the kind of shaktis Buddha has. If Prajna is Wisdom of Emptiness, then, it is a way to navigate the Voids, which, done successfully, is entrance to the Buddhic plane. Marriage to Matangi also implies this, and, if Matangi is Janguli, that is another Tara.

Janguli really has nothing in terms of recorded music, but, Manasa does. This one is long and repetitive, it is a fair bit like a sadhana. It makes her root mantra sound a little weird to me, but, the pace is pretty good for the verses, which are her Maha Mantra:

Q9hFXzT1wwA



Namah Siddhi-swarupayai Varadayai Namo Namah
Namah Kasyapa-kanyayai Sankararyai Namo Namah

Balanam Rakshankartyai Naga Devyai Namo Nama
Namah Astrika-matre Te Jaratkarvyai Namo Namah

Tapas-vinyai Cha Yoginyai Naga-svasre Namo Namah
Sadhvyai Tapasya-rupayai Shambu-shishye Cha Te Namah

Om Hrim Shrim Klim Aim Manasa Devyai Svaha


Manasa is actually worshipped as a Cactus in many places, but is with the Snake in Bengal. Bhattacharya contends that Manasa and Visahari are given the epithet Janguli in Hindu tantric texts.



I looked at the Sri Devi (Dudsol) page for Himalayan Arts, they say she should have either a trident or a mongoose in her upper left hand, this one has what looks like an ax.

There are many, many forms of Sri, such as Dudsol Wangchukma, or Mahasri Tara, or her White form, or a Golden one so far only found in Mongolia. Even in that wrathful Dudsolma class, there are probably five, ten, maybe even twenty variations with Remati and Palden Lhamo.

Unfortunately a lot of those are very specific, like it may be a protector of a certain Kagyu lineage or of some Gelug monastery. But she becomes universalized when recognized as Kama Dhatu Ishvari. I may not have a lineage or any connection to a monastery, but no one can kick me out of Kama Loka. If I do well, I may be able to temporarily transcend it, but again, this is like the main crux for most people, it is Suffering which is the main theme of Buddhism.

The Wangchukma figurine is Chinese. There are only a few examples that show Makaravaktra or a Makara Rider. And so the point here is to get an idea what that is about. Otherwise you won't find it.

Dudsolma is partly talking about darkness that exists in Kama Loka, but, also, the Black Void and/or Deep Sleep. I cannot dwell there, because I cannot anything, because I am not. I think part of her meaning is to gather enough momentum so you kind of snap through it--now let's say an earthly observer sees you in that trance for an hour--but you just walk in and walk out cleanly with no apparent gap.

It is possible to be conscious of black nothingness, but, it is not possible to be conscious of what is defined as a non-conscious state. However, it is the, to us, non-conscious, which is actually real, since we are not. In only a few short years, I will be blown to smithereens, there is no way that I can personally claim to be Absolute. No matter how dispersed or destroyed I may become, It, or That, will not be changed or affected in any way.

The lower image of Nagi Remati is not a thangka, all of those yellow-framed ones are from Rinjung Lhantab or Icons Worthwhile to See, which is the stuff written out in the Tibetan Deities book. So those pictures are 90%+ accurate to what the sadhanas say.

When calling her Wangchukma it means Initiation Goddess, similar to Jnana Dakini.




Here is Grahamatrika with Marici in an unusually close location, and, I am not sure if below her is a second Marici with a Swan Chariot or if that is supposed to be Bhu or something else:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/8/1/58144.jpg






Here is a block print that is not quite exact. It is supposed to be Sky Blue Parnasabari:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/4/0/4/40410.jpg




But this version is closer:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/8/1/6/81669.jpg





She is supposed to be crowned by Amoghasiddhi.

Parnasabari "is" an Akshobya goddess, but, she is also a Duti or Messenger of Tathagata Family in Kriya tantra, which perhaps is born out by her actually having very weird emanations in all families. None of her colors are "correct".

In this one, she has a scarf of leaves and a tiger-skin skirt, is on a sun disk with a solar back. She arises from blue Pam and her heart is a sun disk with blue Pam. She does not have a banner, it is supposed to be a camara or fly-whisk. Her main item is a deva or heavenly tree with fruit which pacifies diseases; her other forms just use a branch or bush. Her other items (axe and noose) are more aggressive and she is amorous and wrathful. She has jewel, bone, and snake ornaments.

The tree is a unique item for Parnasabari. Some other deities have trees which are of a known kind; but this one is not named.

This is the one I am thinking of adapting as a Wrathful deity; the tree seems to be to be the inner equivalent of her customary Broom. Her other stuff is simply to hack, bind, and eliminate, but she is part amorous and has one peaceful item, being a fairly magical one. She is still Pisaci in both her All-purpose or Sarvakarmika mantra and her Heart or Essence mantra. 220 in Tibetan Deities or 127 in Rinjung Gyatsa. The Heart mantra in both books gives the spelling Hri Hah, so, it is a quick or clipped equivalent of "Hrih", followed by a more resonant or echoing Hah than the Ha of Hundred Syllable mantra.

The Akshobya version appears to be her Tri-kaya or Three Places Muttering version, which specifies her "hair jewel" is a white snake brahmin cord. Her hair styles and body change from family to family. Her Peaceful variety is a Green Ratna form on a Peacock with a corresponding plume, whereas her Black Vairocana form stands over a kanka bird or crane in an unusual manner.

Recently Parnasabari has become a bundled transmission with Achi Chokyi Drolma. I believe some other schools are trying to promote her for obvious reasons. The Hindu ritual of her involves something almost the same as Refuge Vow, which is a bit unusual for them.

Everyone needs a Broom, and, if you are suited for healing, her multiple aspects are used to heal a person's whole chakra field.

These Parnasabaris are given right before Grahamatrika, who suggestibly carries the same motif forward into a more subtle or cosmic scene.

[Old Student]

In her aspect as Gauri, it has to do with Vermillion Mark, Robed in White, and so forth, which Buddha calls "the first Gauri", not to be confused with "the Gauris" which are Generation Stage.

Any idea what the etymology of this is? The vermillion mark is a sign of being married, a white sari is a mark of being a widow. Strange that they are together.


Generally, Jivanmukhta means liberated while in the body, instead of Videhamukhta, liberated at death. However its very first definition is Nirvikalpa Samadhi.


When I went to look this up, one of the things I found was Patanjali and a theory of four samadhis. Is that also the source for what you are describing with the meditation on light?


During creation, garuḍa emanates as the abhimāni (presiding deity) of citta, śeṣa of cetana, and rudra of ahaṅkāra. Similarly, umā emanates as the abhimāninī of buddhi, and vāruṇī and sauparṇī [garuda consort] as that of manas-tattva.

If it says Uma is Buddhi, and Uma is Parvati, and Parvati is Janguli, and Matangi is Buddhi and Matangi is Janguli, the worst we can do is wonder why tropical jungle goddesses have appeared in the mountains. If it says Varuni is Manas Tattva, she is the Akashic plane, meaning her "Kha--Sky Element" that is invoked into the Soma is not a physical one period, it is the Noumenal one with energy of the Voids.


This seems to be a creation out of the mind. Which seems like it is related to the notion of a Buddhist world.

[shaberon]

In her aspect as Gauri, it has to do with Vermillion Mark, Robed in White, and so forth, which Buddha calls "the first Gauri", not to be confused with "the Gauris" which are Generation Stage.

Any idea what the etymology of this is? The vermillion mark is a sign of being married, a white sari is a mark of being a widow. Strange that they are together.

Well, there is a lot of background to a lot of Gauris. "This aspect" referred to Annapurna (Viswamata), and she is usually dressed in red, and I am conflating a bunch of things by saying white, which is the common meaning of gauri.


Lajja Gauri is Aditi Adi Shakti often shown with her legs splayed. The Durga form however is Maha Gauri, "Great White". One time Shiva turned Parvati black. She did a lot of penance and bathing and shucked off her black skin, which became another person. Cleansed Parvati was then Maha Gauri. Since then, she can swap skins with the other person and become Kali. She is a very young--eight years--girl dressed in white who rides the white Nandi bull. Maha Gauri (Ganesh's mother) is Annapurna the eighth Durga. Siddhidhatri (Ganesh's wife) is the ninth Durga.

Gauri is part of the trinity (Kriya Shakti). In Pralaya, the trinity has a certain state, but, as Om sounds:

She [Mahalakshmi] then orders Gauri to marry Rudra, Trayi to marry Brahma, and Padma to marry Vasudeva. Later commands Samkarsana and Gauri to break the Egg open. This makes avyakta, the unmanifest, into Water. Pradhana of the Egg, which is of the nature of void, becomes Water.

Varuni, the elder of two wives of Varuṇa, who is the presiding deity of the invisible world and represents the inner reality of things. She is also known as Gauri (Udyoga Parva, Chapter 117, Verse 9).

That level is so primal, nothing exists, until in this case it makes Water, or, more likely, Watery Fire, or the Buddhic plane itself. That would be like waking up without a body or without even a mind as we know it. This is already one change from inertia--the partner swapping--which begins more sets of shifts that institute Maya in denser and denser manifestations.



Mahendra is one of the main Agnis or fires Buddha recommends, and, we also say there is such a thing as Indra Jala:

Mahendrajala may be very strong black magic. Or, Lord of heavens - Indra, after performing a severe penance gets a vision of Mahakali in form of Maya. The goddess beats and humiliates him but in the meanwhile during the lashings, she reveals a peculiar tantra ritual combined with mantras to enable Indra get full control over heaven and hell. It is said that the mantra will be forgotten by Indra if he uses it for vested interest and against nature. Indra does misuse it, forgets the mantra and loses a decisive war with Ravana's son Meghnath, who is later known as Indra'jit. So as of today no one knows what exactly is the ritual and mantra in Mahendrajaal, but supposed to be the most powerful tantra in history, using which one can enslave gods and demons alike. Indra enslaves Agni and Varuna, the presiding deities of the Elements, who conduct with natural laws. He therefore forgets the mantra forever. Also note that Indra is not a person, but a status given to the presiding Lord of heavens. There were many of them and the greatest one among Indras, had the knowledge of the rare tantra (jaalam), therefore the ritual came to be known as Maha-Indrajaal.

Mahendra is Great Indra, one of the holy mountains, place of Apsaras, represented by a cremation ground called Attattahasa, in Vajravarahi's cycle where you make her a dwelling place inside the cemeteries. It is related to Ghana or thick clouds, citta vajra monuments, and the serpent Mahapadma, protected by Ishana. A place with a swayambhu linga presided by Mahavrata (Great Observance), also kapalavrata, skull observance or lokatitavrata beyond the world: full assimilation to Bhairava. Performance of the vow, Maha Vrata, leads one to Gauri.

So she has much to do with the Vow that would be useful in any marriage, terrestrial or occult.


The Annapurna of the Agni Homa mainly consists of:

Visarjana or sending forth the devas. Formal dismissal. Fifthly seed may be esoterically offered to a woman. Gauri Ganesha. That's how it works. We make a Great Oath to Gauri, and, traditionally the next day is for Ganesh's sending-away.

If done, that kind of seed is supposed to be offered in a ritual way, Lata Sadhana, that aspect of the Path called Vira Chara.

Maha Vrata. It is believed that Goddess Gauri comes to her parents’ house just like any other married daughter would come to her parents’ house and next day, her son Lord Ganesha, comes to take Her back to Kailasa.

Akshina Gauri is Turmeric and Vermillion, and Jala Gauri is Water.

From Surinam, here is her song:

tikau mai gauri ganesa re tikau dharati maiya maga
tikau mai gauri ganesa re tikau dhyuhare baba matha
tikau mai gauri ganesa re tikau kaliya maiya matha
tikau mai gauri ganesa re tikau satahu bahini matha
tikau mai gauri ganesa re tikau yahi re pani matha tuhara re

I mark Gauri and Ganesa with the tika, O Mother Earth, I mark the parting of your hair with the tika

I mark Gauri and Ganesa with the tika, dhih baba I mark the parting of your hair with the tika

I mark Gauri and Ganesa with the tika, Mother Kali I mark the parting of your hair with the tika

I mark Gauri and Ganesa with the tika, Seven Sisters I mark the parting of your hair with the tika

I mark Gauri and Ganesa with the tika, This Water, I mark the parting of your hair with the tika

Tika is the vermillion mark.


The Nepali royal virgin or Raj Kumari annually renews the king's right to rule. At Kanya Puja, the priest or purohita makes an oath to Gauri that after worshipping Ganesh and other deities, he will worship the living kumari. He reads the oath hymn sankalpa sukta and performs an elaborate service. The kumari is described like most temple effigies which have a gold mask and red robes. She is considered to embody svatantra shakti, which is independent or free from kleshas. It is also described as chetana, spanda or vibrational, hridaya, para, and jaganmata. The true nature of it is purno ham vimarsha (fullness of its own perfection), whereas ham vimarsha was the original vibration that triggered manifestation.

Gauri oath is also done by brides before going to the altar. Shiva sankalpa suktam is one of the very few of the karmakanda or ritualized portions of the vedas which is considered an upanishad or explanatory of the inner teaching. Gauri also has a tale of Dhaval, who decapitated himself for her, then also his brother in law did, and they were fixed with their heads switched.

Gauripatta or Yonipatta is Gauri's Plate or a pedestal for Shivaling.

I am not sure, but, Svatantra Shakti sounds a lot like Paratantra which is the Other-Dependent Nature, or, the second void, to be dispelled by Thatness or Suchness. Paratantra is the chain of dependent arisings, the twelve nidanas, Tanha, Asava, Grasping, etc. When we quit projecting False Imagination (Parikalpita) into the Other-Dependent (Paratantra), we are a Buddha or are in Paramartha. That is the basic Yogacara attitude.

In Hevajra, Vajra corresponds to Rupa Skandha, Gauri is the feeling aggregate, Vajrayogini to the perception aggregate, Vajradakini to the conception aggregate, Nairatmyayogini to the consciousness aggregate. When she is called Yogini or Dakini, this is emblematic of her power of flight, which is the undoing of subtle knots that improves the flow of energy.

Hevajra states that Gauri is Form, Chauri is Sound, Vetali is Smell, Ghasmari is Taste, Bhucari is Touch, Khechari is Space. Those are to be purified continuously and completely. It is the same in Nairatmya mandala (Hevajra's consort), but also, in terms of Skandhas, Vajra is Rupa--Form, Gauri is Vedana--Feeling, Vajrayogini is Samjna--Perception, Vajradakini is Samskara--Conception, Nairatmya is Vijnana--Consciousness.

Lajja Gauri is Aditi in Shaktism. She appears on a Buddha mural at Aurangabad, although she has a head.

"The Gauris" begin with Gauri.


Gauri is strongly interlaced with Kila or Phurba. There is a mysterious six-armed deity holding Sun and Moon on certain kilas. Considered to be Surya-Chandra Gauri, very close to a consort named Marajit. Sometimes she has two hands with Mt. Meru and the Four Continents. This is fairly specific to Vajrakilaya practice, where she is considered a Wrathful Protector. Originally she is White, this is old:

https://www.himalayanart.org/pages/images/90907-gauri.jpg



Gauri and Marajit: wrathful, blue-black in colour, with one face and two hands. The right holds aloft a lance and banner and the left a garland of bones. Attired in flowing garments he rides atop a black horse surrounded by a cloud of dark billowing smoke:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/6/1/2/61226.jpg





Headed by Vajrasattva and two lineage holders, Vajrakila with Five "Herukas" [Nyingma term for wrathfuls], Gauri and Marajit at the bottom:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/9/0/9/90907.jpg



His consort is Black or Light Blue Diptachakra: the Flaming Wheel. She is a base-of-the-spine goddess; adding the root center is usually related to Amoghasiddhi and the Extremely Wrathful Vajra Kilaya.

Gauri Tara is a retinue member for Kurukulla.

Gauri is almost inexhaustible, and is tricky, since it has meaning from the core of the universe to Generation Stage. Sometimes it may mean "orange". I am unable to come up with a more sacred attainment than Annapurna since it has the dual meaning of saturating oneself with "occult food" while also having the same goal offered to and filling the world, even if it means you have to give a lot of mundane food before anyone even notices another kind is available.

Our Yoga starts with Prathyahara: Control of Food. Ahara (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/ahara#buddhism) in Buddhism has a couple of classifications. Pali:

material food (kabalinkārāhāra),
(sensorial and mental) impression (phassa),
mental volition (mano-sañcetanā),
consciousness (viññāna).

Dharma Samgraha:

dhyānāhāra (nutriment of absorption),
kavalīkārāhāra (nutriment of food),
pratyāhāra (nutriment from withdrawal),
sparśāhāra (nutriment of contact),
sañcetanikāhāra (nutriment of intention).

The point of the Agni Homa could perhaps be described as the attempt to make the most powerful Annapurna possible.

They use blast furnaces which have been determined to be almost the same temperature as the sun's surface, over 3,000 degrees, to purify substances.

Gauri and Ganesh have regional differences in their story and practice. Gauri Ganapati Puja (https://zeenews.india.com/culture/jyeshtha-gauri-puja-2020-date-time-and-significance-of-gauri-ganpati-mahalaxmi-puja-during-ganesh-chaturthi-festival-2305233.html) is also called Mahalakshmi Puja.

Evidently, Mahalakshmi pushed Gauri into a certain form of existence, which involved sending Ganesh into the world to gain Union with Buddhi (Matangi) and Siddhidhatri who is like a female Amoghasiddhi, knowing and having all possible powers. And so if Ganesh is in Buddhism, then, he is male, which refers to the mind of the meditator. So to me the language is clearly simple, it is an instruction, and the goddesses describe or are the experience.

Dudsol Wangchukma for instance has the same Tibetan name as the twenty-four Yoginis of the body, Wangchukma, who initiate one via the Four Activities; the name is like Sanskrit Abhiseka. And so her Makara Rider is a close prodigal female equivalent of Ganesh. Meanwhile, Gauri at least in this instance is really a Virgin (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-relationship-between-Lord-Ganesha-and-Gauri), and the meaning of Ganesh and his Hindu tantra is indeed psychologically transformative similarly to how we would use him, he is the source of Ucchista--Scraps and smoky color in their view.

I, personally, do not think I can contend with him on that Gauri level any time soon, but, Matangi is another story, she is the Elephant, she has Varuni eyes--is drunk, Matta Matangi, passionate, and so forth. Nevertheless, she will respond to a very gentle root mantra:

Oz4Vkeef2UI




om hrīṁ klīṁ huṁ mātaṅgyai phat svāhā



Generally, Jivanmukhta means liberated while in the body, instead of Videhamukhta, liberated at death. However its very first definition is Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

When I went to look this up, one of the things I found was Patanjali and a theory of four samadhis. Is that also the source for what you are describing with the meditation on light?


It may be, Jivanmukta is a very ancient term most closely relates to the Vairajas. These are similar to the Buddhist Nirmanakaya in the sense of Historical Buddhas. It is like a Hindu heavenly choir of liberated souls, who act as transmitters of divine light and sound. I cannot remember much of the Patanjali stuff; once I figured out how our Yoga systems are contradictory, I had to choose one or the other, and it winds up kind of blocking him out.




Here is an excellent one-page look at the difference between the person in meditation and the Buddha in all the worlds by looking at Kaya Chakra (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kayacakra#tibetan-buddhism).

In Vajradaka Tantra as a whole, it is the domain of Patala Vasini, and it works with the Tri-Kaya and a Chakrasamvara style of twenty-four Pithas.

And so if one has the Four Dakinis, and opens a Mahasukha or Jnana Chakra, it is this one.

I have tried to describe our most sublime perceptions of Sahaja as merely the outer edge of the Big Heruka in Dakarnava Tantra.

And so if you look at the components of his Kaya Chakra, it begins with the six planes of Kama Loka. There is then a type of Brahma Kaya, followed by a bunch of stuff I am not familiar with, followed at twenty-three by Akanistha and the Four Formless Dhyanas. These lowest, basic deities of his are all of a Tri-kaya nature, they are body-word-mind-color (mixture of white, red, and black).

That is quite close to saying that he is Celestial and that Akanistha is his lowest emanation; those other parts of Kama Loka should be considered "just there" and not having any of the ill effects. Therefor, this tantra would be appropriate for those who are like an Anangamin or are able to perform a Yamari "Defeating Death" type of practice.

In other words, almost all of the other tantras have to do with transcending Kama Loka, and, it is "here" that represents stability with what lies beyond or is cosmic. I do not think it is a "dimension" if it is a means to occupy all space with no distinction as to parts or separate selves. There is nowhere to move and nothing to measure. "Motion" in this state is more like vibration or breath.

[shaberon]

Gauri is tremendous, and, in a certain understanding, Janguli is a close offshoot of hers.

That is because Janguli is Matangi, who is something like the non-Buddhist answer about Smoke and Ucchista deities, and we know that this smoke frequently pertains to Wrathful Amoghasiddhi, and if Gauri is so important to Kila, this resounds.

So far it is Hindu sources that seem to state that Manasa is Janguli, which Buddhism shows by capturing the snake hood on her famous forms; Manasa and others may be part snake; according to HPB, Nagas or Nag Kanyas refer to initiates. In the Buddhist texts, Janguli is called Matangi, which suggests less to do with snakes--and her minor form is like this and does not show the hood:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/9/7/59727.jpg




I do not know if Hinduism would accept that Manasa "is" Matangi, and, to the extent Matangi is a tantric Sarasvati, then I am not sure why Buddhism has a separate line for Vajra Sarasvati, and that, although Janguli resembles her and carries the lute, by name she is more related to Parvati--Gauri. But in the Pisaci mantra, Gauri and Matangi are distinct; the corresponding Sarasvati is Vetali.

Vetali is a malevolent corpse like a ghoul, whereas Pisaci is the most harmful type of being, the Devil, a body-less vampire which is worse since it cannot be destroyed by physical means. In both cases, one takes something that defaults to horrendous evil, and converts it.

Matangi is also worshipped as Ellama and this is connected to the myth of Parasurama placing the head of Renuka on a recluse woman. Renuka was the daughter of Renu. She was married to sage Jamadagni and their son was Parasurama.

She potentially has five or six (https://srigaruda.com/matangi/) forms, but two main ones. She is Blue (http://www.mahavidya.ca/2012/06/18/the-goddess-matangi/) in Kubjika Upanishad. She has extraordinarily versatile roles from accepting un-vowed, impure, and menstruating devotees, to being the one who arranges and secures the benefits of a household. Parnasabari is used to clean it; Matangi--Janguli helps fill in the "home" part.

She is unusual because low-caste and potentially able to enter union, which is just not really done in Orthodox Hinduism.

Matangi is considered Guru Tattva or Parampara. She is mainly revered in Mahavidya practice. Mantangi as a Mahavidya (https://www.divyachetna.com/mahavidya-mata-matangi.php) is ranked among the most powerful; for instance, at Guhawati, Ugra Tara is not part of the trinity--it is Tripura Sundari, Matangi, and Kamala. The general Mahavidya information says:

Mother Matangi has two forms – the Rajarajeshwari form and the Ucchishta Chandali form. Her Rajarajeswari form is her more soft, benign form where she is depicted holding the veena. In her Ucchishta Chandali form she is ugra (fierce) and this is a destructive form of Mother. The Ucchista Chandal form of Mother Matangi is associated with the Chandal (outcaste) form of Lord Shiva. Lord Ganesh takes on many different forms and he is present wherever his parents Lord Shiva and Mother Parvati are, to protect them. The Ucchishta Matangi form of Mother is also associated with the Ucchishta Ganapati form of Lord Ganesh. Mother Matangi takes on the Ucchishta Chandali form when her devotees and in danger.

Mother Matangi worship gives relief in marriage related problems. She is worshipped when there is delay in marriage or problems in marriage. She is also worshipped by childless couples to get children. When Mother Matangi is pleased Kuber (God of wealth) comes into our lives and we lack nothing. [she has just constrained the final and perhaps extraordinarily difficult member of the Four Kings]

She has parrots [karma] around her and is adorned with the crescent moon. She is shown with one foot resting on a lotus and the other one is lifted onto the throne upon which she sits. One foot on the lotus shows her control on the terrestrial world in tranquility and serenity, and the other foot on to her throne shows her sovereignty over the celestial domains. The stem of the veena held in her hands symbolizes the sushumna (the subtle energy channel that traverses along the spinal cord) and the strings by the energy channels emanating from the sushumna. In the hands of Matangi, the sadhaka becomes the veena.

Her clothes and all of Her ornaments are red. Around Her neck is a garland of kadamba flowers. She is sixteen years old and has very full breasts and a very slim waist. She holds a skull on Her left side and a bloodied chopping blade on Her right, And She plays a jewel-encrusted veena. Her hair is long and wild, and the disc of the moon adorns Her forehead. She perspires slightly around Her face, which makes Her all the more beautiful and bright. Below Her navel are three horizontal folds of skin and a thin vertical line of fine hair.

Tara's pose, reversed:

https://www.divyachetna.com/images/static/matangi.jpg








Mother Matangi reduces all the effects coming under the domain of Mother Dhoomavati – poverty, quarrels, misery, punishment, debts, attacks from evil spirits etc.

Dhumavati does not really help you fix that. She can help you endure it and still ask for something nice. If you can not toss her a grain or a coin or something, you should be handcuffed to Kriya--Chara tantra.

108 Names (https://templesinindiainfo.com/108-names-mantra-of-goddess-matangi-in-english-tantric-saraswati/) are unwieldy to deal with and frequently repetitive--hers are a bit more unique, and begins with her name as used by Janguli, Matta Matangi:

1) Om Mahamattamatanginyai Namah
30) Om Mahakaushikyai Namah
41) Om Makarapriyayai Namah
45) Om Lasyalilalayangyai Namah
72) Om Kadambapriyayai Namah
100) Om Mahasheshayagyopavitapriyayai Namah
106) Om Japadhyanasantushtasangyayai Namah




She has an Active form and an Om form. The Active Ucchishta-Matangini is seated on a corpse and wears red garments, red jewellery and a garland of gunja seeds. The goddess is described as a young, sixteen-year-old maiden with fully developed breasts. She carries a skull and a sword in her two hands, and is offered leftovers. She has a Blue form with noose, a sword, a goad, and a club. Emerald Raja Matangi accompanied by parrots plays the veena, or may have four arms with the same equipment as Sodashi (Tripura Sundari).

At the worst she is waste, residue, pollution, outcasts. In some of her stories she is a Candala or outcast. She is Madhyamaka or middle moment of the translation of ideas to speech. She is prana of the Throat center added to that of the Heart moving to Ajna. She is the secondary Siddhi Vidya.

She is also related to Ganesh and is uniquely referred to as having Elephant Power. She is an erotically dominant elephant woman whose name means "She whose limbs are intoxicated with passion”. Because her limbs tremble with passion, this represents the dark or laya mulaprakriti invested with the thrilling energy of the egg or Kushmanda.

The consensus on her is based on Nada (http://www.hvk.org/2005/0205/46.html) and the emergence of thought into word and its effect on the subtle body.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5b-O2yTp5_Y/WKHEE6C3rnI/AAAAAAAAB78/AlVe9dKiJ-kFrRpcFH6RFT9t3Hvq2tT-wCLcB/s1600/matangi.jpg





https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dz4FPeHTUdE/maxresdefault.jpg






https://ramanan50.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/images6.jpg




Ganesh marries two wives, Buddhi and Siddhi, and then holds the triple fire Jnana, Iccha, and Kriya.

The irony is perhaps wasted unless you see a trunk, which comes from between the throat and ajna, shown as using kundalini in a manner indicating Bliss, the Sambhogakaya, with an Elephant lady who shares his name, Scraps, who comes in with Varuni already flowing, and who herself is the energy from throat to Ajna.

Ganesh is an important deity even to Atisha. He is a main figure in Agni Homa. And so if we cannot do the full thing, while we are learning what it is about, it seems reliable that Janguli can handle most of the roles seen as important to his "first wife" in his Ucchista form. His specific sadhanas may do things a little differently, but, at least, in a preparatory mantra-building stage, Janguli or Matangi sounds appropriate.

[Old Student]

The one with Mahattari is the only one where it is combined with fire. In that sense, there is some wiggle room, although I could argue that hydrogen flame is blue and it is the hottest part of a normal fire. It could easily be yellow or orange. There are not normally such things as red flames. But this is magical fire. Perhaps it is so strong the lotus cannot actually be seen? Maybe it is white, pink, or purple? When combined into the phrases meaning "fire at the end of the world", it could even be black.

My own experience with what could be called magical fire during shaking is that it doesn't need to be perceived as the same color all of the time, that it can be both blue and red, for instance. But if I was trying to make a picture of it for someone, in order that they saw it as fire, I would color it fire colors.


If the Prajnas are Taras such as Pandara Tara or Mamaki Tara, then, there is nothing to be gained which isn't Tara. Having the Prajnas means you have the kind of shaktis Buddha has. If Prajna is Wisdom of Emptiness, then, it is a way to navigate the Voids, which, done successfully, is entrance to the Buddhic plane. Marriage to Matangi also implies this, and, if Matangi is Janguli, that is another Tara.

Janguli really has nothing in terms of recorded music, but, Manasa does.

Is the connection here between Matangi and Manasa Janguli? I didn't follow this switch between paragraphs. Matangi is like Sarasvati only tantra, Manasa is the mother of the Nagas? Are they both forms of Janguli in Bengal?


It is possible to be conscious of black nothingness, but, it is not possible to be conscious of what is defined as a non-conscious state. However, it is the, to us, non-conscious, which is actually real, since we are not. In only a few short years, I will be blown to smithereens, there is no way that I can personally claim to be Absolute. No matter how dispersed or destroyed I may become, It, or That, will not be changed or affected in any way.

Are you sure this is what is intended by blowing out? The state seems much more alive in the texts.


Everyone needs a Broom, and, if you are suited for healing, her multiple aspects are used to heal a person's whole chakra field.

These Parnasabaris are given right before Grahamatrika, who suggestibly carries the same motif forward into a more subtle or cosmic scene.

How does one tell one is suited for healing?

Grahamatrika as planetary or as grasping?

[Old Student]

Hevajra states that Gauri is Form, Chauri is Sound, Vetali is Smell, Ghasmari is Taste, Bhucari is Touch, Khechari is Space. Those are to be purified continuously and completely. It is the same in Nairatmya mandala (Hevajra's consort), but also, in terms of Skandhas, Vajra is Rupa--Form, Gauri is Vedana--Feeling, Vajrayogini is Samjna--Perception, Vajradakini is Samskara--Conception, Nairatmya is Vijnana--Consciousness.

Lajja Gauri is Aditi in Shaktism. She appears on a Buddha mural at Aurangabad, although she has a head.

"The Gauris" begin with Gauri.


Gauri is strongly interlaced with Kila or Phurba. There is a mysterious six-armed deity holding Sun and Moon on certain kilas. Considered to be Surya-Chandra Gauri, very close to a consort named Marajit.

Gauri then is related to Annapurna in the sense of being related to food? The kilas I thought were to end ignorance and were derived from tent posts, not from knives.




I, personally, do not think I can contend with him on that Gauri level any time soon, but, Matangi is another story, she is the Elephant, she has Varuni eyes--is drunk, Matta Matangi, passionate, and so forth. Nevertheless, she will respond to a very gentle root mantra:

This is still the same Matangi as in the previous post? She is then in Buddhist tantra rather than Mahavidya tantra someone who leads one to the truth by leading them through the illusion? The passionate drunkenness sounds similar to one of the mayas of Kurukulla.

[shaberon]

Is the connection here between Matangi and Manasa Janguli? I didn't follow this switch between paragraphs. Matangi is like Sarasvati only tantra, Manasa is the mother of the Nagas? Are they both forms of Janguli in Bengal?

Yes, I am pretty sure Manasa--Janguli is Bengali or from around Calcutta. That one is Naga Mother.

I am not aware of a Hindu source that would combine Matangi and Manasa. In Sadhanamala, Matangi appears twice, once as a name for Janguli, and also in the Pisaci Mantra which was given by Heavenly King Dhritarashtra in Lotus Sutra.


Are you sure this is what is intended by blowing out? The state seems much more alive in the texts.

On that, what I meant was death and that I do not believe that "I" will be the part that continues, it will only be the Most Subtle or Klista Manas. In other words there will be a struggle in Kama Loka which one may faint for most of, and the Manas will find its way to Devachan or Avichi to endure its fate, and at some point this will be over and a big eraser will come through.

Whatever was me will not be seen or heard from again. Something new will be made from the Most Subtle Mind riding on the Non-Conceptual Wind.

That is what I expect. The various rites or meditations stabilize the time of dying and the transition and remain helpful as Armor or Bindus and so forth, so that, roughly speaking, Samsara and Karma will be quelled as much as possible, and Lucidity can be maintained without Hindrances.

This is like saying I definitely believe in continuity of consciousness and certainly not of personality.

I hope that makes sense. The elements of personality can be magnetized back to the earth sphere and used for apparitions with the memory and character of the person, but, these are shells, no one is there. It is like another type of corpse to be discarded like the physical one.



How does one tell one is suited for healing?

Grahamatrika as planetary or as grasping?

I am not sure. I personally feel "semi-" towards it. I may be more like Grahamatrika, psychological and karmic. In this terminology, Grahas or Planets are able to "Seize" one with peculiar afflictions or diseases that are not just physical, more like fate.

As well as "pisaci" terminology, Janguli and Parnasabari share Satya. It is not mentioned much in Sadhanamala, and nowhere else like with them. Janguli has the largest cluster of Satya in the book:

sarvaṃ tat tathā avitathā nānyathābhūtaṃ satyatathyam / tathā
yathāvadaviparītaṃ aviparyastaṃ buddhasatyam anusmara dharmasatyam
anusmara saṅghasatyam anusmara satyavādināṃ satyam anusmara /
anena satyena satyavacanena idaṃ viṣaṃ aviṣaṃ bhavatu, dātāraṃ
gacchatu, daṣṭāraṃ gacchatu, agniṃ gacchatu, kuḍyaṃ gacchatu, jalaṃ
gacchatu, stambhaṃ gacchatu, śāntiṃ gacchatu, svastyayanaṃ gacchatu,
bhūmyāṃ nipatatu, viṣaṃ svāhā /

Although it may be part of the Sutra saying "and this is true", Satya is Truth as in the truest kind of existence--Satya Loka is the highest or seventh loka, and the Ultimate Truth of Buddhist Yogacara is Paramartha Satya. And we see that she is Satya Vacanena, which is a similar phrase to Mrtyu Vacana or Explaining Death--so Janguli perhaps is Explaining Satya.

Another attribute of hers is from Prajnaparamita Sutra:

Satyavāda (सत्यवाद):—Truthful speech (satyavāda) is the root of all good (kuśala), the cause and condition of rebirth among the gods; it is believed and accepted by all people. He who puts it into practice does not pretend generosity (dāna), morality (śīla) or wisdom; merely by cultivating truthful speech, he wins immense merit (puṇya). Truthful speech is “acting as one says”.

Parnasabari also uses Satya Vacanena, but, it may be in reference to Janguli, since it is followed by a weird form of Jah syllable:

tad anena satyena satyavacanena satyavākyena jjaḥ jjaḥ jjaḥ jjaḥ
ebhiḥ paṇḍitādhiṣṭhitair mantrapadair mama sarvasattvānāṃ ca rakṣāṃ
kuru, paritrāṇaṃ kuru, parigrahaṃ kuru, paripālanaṃ kuru, śāntiṃ
kuru, svasstyayanaṃ kuru, daṇḍaparihāraṃ kuru, śastraparihāraṃ
kuru, yāvad viṣadūṣaṇaṃkuru, agniparihāraṃ kuru, udaka-
parihāraṃ kuru, kākhorddacchedanaṃ kuru, sīmābandhaṃ kuru, dharaṇī-
bandhaṃ kuru



In Buddhism, Ganesh is almost always called Ganapati. Neither one of these is in Sadhanamala. It may be in the missing back part, but, he is not in the front, not even as a retinue member. However he is in the Tibetan basket.

The large Maha Rakta Ganapati of Sakya is considered a wealth deity form of Avalokiteshvara, the kind that has taken the head of the original Ganesh.

The context of Ganesh in Agni Homa is a bit different from his Buddhist sadhanas. In the top tier of the Three Reds, he is a solo deity, Kurukulla is solo, and the couple is Takki--Bharati. Takki is almost as Agni without using the name Agni as it can be. The idea of Agni Ganesh will boomerang in a moment.

Taranatha's Rinjung Gyatsa begins with Tara, Sarasvati, Tara with a Dharani, Kurukulla crowned by Amitabha, and then Takkiraja with Sukha Vardhani Bharati, who use a dharani based on the consonants, as if it were implying the Second Void or Red Moon.

Well, it is as if he is forking over the highest part of the Sakya canon right on the first few pages.

Next is Blue Demon Subduer Ganapati who uses the typically corrupted Sumbha Nisumbha mantra, and then minor Red Wealth Ganapati.

A unique Bhutadamara Vajrapani frequently accompanies Ganapati.

The two main lineages are Atisha's, and Gayadhara who transmitted to the Sakya school.

Strangely, if we look at a Sakya version, the presiding Dhyani is Ratnasambhava. Bhutadamara Vajrapani appears, along with Vaisravana, male Aparajita, Vasudhara and Jambhala, and a special group of three Pisaci Sisters called Yugu Chesum (https://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=1411):

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/8/9/9/89906.jpg






If he handles them, is he not effective for the whole pisaci class, such as Parnasabari, Hariti, Sitala, Matangi, Gandhari, Gauri, and so on?

Ganapati is Lord of Hosts, i. e. Gana Chakra, which seems to be another fairly plain meaning. One is supposed to accumulate wealth in order to host Gana Chakras. That has physical or inner meaning since wealth is the same Nidhis of the Yakshas or esoteric treasure.

Like Jambhala, he is frequently phallic:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/3/1/53170.jpg





https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/5/3/1/53161.jpg






His consort is "a monkey" who has a story that is really hard to find. I believe it does flips in the Cemeteries.

However, in a Nepalese view, we should check out his hat, and what kind of throne it is:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/8/9/0/89046.jpg



He is shown as an inner guide of pisacis, as well as able to gain a serpent hood.

That is like simultaneous command of Matangi and Manasa.

Buddha was mainly raised in a Ganesh temple.

Ganesh is Buddhipriya.

Ganesh is lord of hosts, however, the primary association is Ganesh and the Gandharvas. These are among the highest kind of Yakshas. In Vidyadhara terminology, the unknown kingdoms to be experienced are classed as Dakini, Yaksha, Gandharva. And so we might describe Vasudhara as the gate of the Yaksha Underworld and Shambhallah simultaneously, and yet, whatever is going on with Ganesh and especially Matangi, is strewn further within this.

Tirumal is the site of Sapta Giri: a seven-peaked hill representing the seven heads of Adi Sesha. Venkatadri is thought to be Mt. Meru as brought to Earth by Garuda. Also called Venkata, this particular peak is the site of Venkateswara: Vishnu in his wealthiest form. Also called Govindha or Srinavas.

He has a moderately long story involving Bhrigu, where he marries the daughter Padmavati of the King of the Akasha forever and Lakshmi just lives in his heart. From this marriage he went in debt to Kubera and has never gotten out and there is a legal petition currently about how much he's got and how long it will take. His Mongoose spits Gems, and it looks like too much is never enough.

To us, the debt is about the Treasure Tower Dharmadhatu.

Ganesha is the removal of obstacles threefold - material, spiritual and mental. He is also related to the dhanapati (lord of wealth), Kubera, of whom, along with several other hosts (ganas), he rules (as overlord of Kubera). His marriages maximize Matangi who is the Mantrini or celestial mantric mistress. He grants atmajnana.

He is invoked first a result of him being connected to the Guru of the devas, Brihaspati as the Celestial Guru to be invoked for blessings before all others and for humans, represents this connection as noted between the animate and divine kingdoms. As the inner and celestial Guru, he should always be sought first, before looking for a worldly Guru.

So Ganesh is pretty close to a Hindu Vajrasattva.

The original Krodha Vinayakas [Anger, Remover of Obstacles] were Gandharvas.

In Buddhism, Dhritarashtra is also considered a King of Gandharvas, and, was married to Gandhari.

Gandharvas exist in Mahar Loka which is Kama Loka.

He is really comprehensive, in a way that portraying him as a luck charm does not do justice to.

[Old Student]

I'm falling a bit behind and will strive to catch up tonight, I have this one and the next one you wrote to comment on. There has been a huge shift last night in my shaking. There was a completely formless bliss, I was taught to activate it somewhat at will, it emanated from my crown (or better phrased, the tweak or switch I needed to listen/push was at my crown), and I was sent to pretty much impart it to someone who seemed to be meditating and waiting for it somehow. But some of these things in this post of yours are too close to some of that experience and I need to comment on how that is the case, even though I did prepare by reading thoroughly and looking stuff up as usual.


She has parrots [karma] around her and is adorned with the crescent moon. She is shown with one foot resting on a lotus and the other one is lifted onto the throne upon which she sits. One foot on the lotus shows her control on the terrestrial world in tranquility and serenity, and the other foot on to her throne shows her sovereignty over the celestial domains. The stem of the veena held in her hands symbolizes the sushumna (the subtle energy channel that traverses along the spinal cord) and the strings by the energy channels emanating from the sushumna. In the hands of Matangi, the sadhaka becomes the veena.

Her clothes and all of Her ornaments are red. Around Her neck is a garland of kadamba flowers. She is sixteen years old and has very full breasts and a very slim waist. She holds a skull on Her left side and a bloodied chopping blade on Her right, And She plays a jewel-encrusted veena. Her hair is long and wild, and the disc of the moon adorns Her forehead. She perspires slightly around Her face, which makes Her all the more beautiful and bright. Below Her navel are three horizontal folds of skin and a thin vertical line of fine hair.

Tara's pose, reversed:

I think I may have quoted from my notes and you would have seen me talk about doing the lute or thrusting into the lute or bending into the lute. If I quoted enough it would have been "Sarasvati's lute" in the notes, as that was the shape and it was very explicit in form and sort of in origin although I never envisioned Sarasvati. Suffice it to say it's a position, and since the past few days, since I think Friday or Saturday, these have been treated as and called "power poses". Up until last night, the lute was the most powerful of them, and overwhelmingly blissful in a very sexual way. The power pose training and all the stuff leading up to last night I do know I have mentioned has been managed by Sukhasiddhi. One part is entirely my job to do and that is to make sure the pillar is strong and extant, and to pull my spine and centerline straight and make sure both ends and the pillar are at least visible if not shining.

All of which is to say that I know exactly what that means about the strings forming the nadi and the sadhaka becoming her veena. I stopped the quote on the phrase, "Tara's pose, reversed," Does tara have the knife and skull in the reverse hands?


She has an Active form and an Om form. The Active Ucchishta-Matangini is seated on a corpse and wears red garments, red jewellery and a garland of gunja seeds. The goddess is described as a young, sixteen-year-old maiden with fully developed breasts. She carries a skull and a sword in her two hands, and is offered leftovers. She has a Blue form with noose, a sword, a goad, and a club. Emerald Raja Matangi accompanied by parrots plays the veena, or may have four arms with the same equipment as Sodashi (Tripura Sundari).

I had a place in my notes for last night where I was about to put down holding a sword and noose, and then thought that was silly it was a hook and noose so I wrote the latter. It was the former. It was this. I had only two hands, though so no goad and club. This was when I was being "readied" to go do the "imparting" of the formless bliss to someone else.


At the worst she is waste, residue, pollution, outcasts. In some of her stories she is a Candala or outcast. She is Madhyamaka or middle moment of the translation of ideas to speech. She is prana of the Throat center added to that of the Heart moving to Ajna. She is the secondary Siddhi Vidya.

She is also related to Ganesh and is uniquely referred to as having Elephant Power. She is an erotically dominant elephant woman whose name means "She whose limbs are intoxicated with passion”. Because her limbs tremble with passion, this represents the dark or laya mulaprakriti invested with the thrilling energy of the egg or Kushmanda.

Matangi can have the popular definition of "a Chandali woman", meaning chandala, meaning disheveled, but disheveled from living in the graveyard, an attribute of a female tantra practitioner in parts of greater Bengal who live in the charnel grounds and cover themselves with ashes and are "priestesses" of dark tantra. The Chandala class aren't just outcasts they are those who work in the charnel grounds.


The consensus on her is based on Nada and the emergence of thought into word and its effect on the subtle body.

I read as much of the link as I had time to, and will go back to it. This is the second reference to the origin of sound impacting my shaking in as many days. The first was from your link about Kurukulla, which described her as one of three aspects of Kulla, whom it described as being the originating shakti of the universe and Kurukulla's bowstring as having made the svara varna the original vowel, and the reverberations of the string forming the closing nasal to create the original sound of Om which created the universe.

The formless void bliss last night had a primordial sound, also formless, and the sound was linked to a seeping of liquid over my lips and an O shape in my mouth which had been part of what happened.

When the formless things were over, I lay quiet for a minute and my body was doing the decompose cellular shaking which is in my notes sometimes humming shaking because it is so fast as to be near the audible range and in fact low notes around me -- beat frequencies from humming motors, low frequencies from thunder and so forth cause it to start, unlike all the other shaking things, this one starts by itself.

I feel like I know this one quite well down to the red clothes and each string on the lute. She is the Matangi, the Mahavidya of Sarasvati, and her path intersects a lot of the shamanic parts of my shaking somehow.

[Old Student]

Yes, I am pretty sure Manasa--Janguli is Bengali or from around Calcutta. That one is Naga Mother.

I asked the local Bengali native speaker. "Janguli" means jungle, and is in fact where the English word for jungle comes from. They were not very surprised that she cured snakes, that's the kind of goddess you need in the jungle was the thought.


On that, what I meant was death and that I do not believe that "I" will be the part that continues, it will only be the Most Subtle or Klista Manas. In other words there will be a struggle in Kama Loka which one may faint for most of, and the Manas will find its way to Devachan or Avichi to endure its fate, and at some point this will be over and a big eraser will come through.

Whatever was me will not be seen or heard from again. Something new will be made from the Most Subtle Mind riding on the Non-Conceptual Wind.

That is what I expect. The various rites or meditations stabilize the time of dying and the transition and remain helpful as Armor or Bindus and so forth, so that, roughly speaking, Samsara and Karma will be quelled as much as possible, and Lucidity can be maintained without Hindrances.

This is like saying I definitely believe in continuity of consciousness and certainly not of personality.

I hope that makes sense. The elements of personality can be magnetized back to the earth sphere and used for apparitions with the memory and character of the person, but, these are shells, no one is there. It is like another type of corpse to be discarded like the physical one.

Yes, all that makes sense, thank you for writing it out, I understand your references to these things much better now. I'm not sure what I expect. I spent two hours getting decked out as a full-on brilliant green dakini with a sword and a noose and sent to impart total formlessness-bliss to someone like that last night. The formless bliss is very complete, it resembles either Lama Yeshe's description of visualizing Dharmakaya or his description of visualizing simultaneously born bliss.

It is easily a state of non-conceptuality and has no self in it. You could do very much worse than a state in which your self did not continue but the Non-Conceptual Wind and the Most Subtle Mind are playing.

My somewhat prejudiced reluctance to get very far into Ganapati/Ganesh, it has nothing to do with my studies or my practice or my shaking practice, I live like 0.7 miles from a Ganesh Mandir and the purpose there of worshipping him is solely about accumulating worldly riches so it's kind of seedy the way it is degenerated in my community.

But I do have to take a look with an open mind, some of the things in my shaking are so close to some of those you say surround him. Reading your expose on Matangi after last night's shaking was eerie.

I'm still trying to understand the water flowing from my lips. It was undoubtedly saliva in the physical world but it did not feel that viscous, not even as viscous as water, more like the way alcohol spreads on a surface. It was all over my lips several times over the past few nights, and it always presaged my mouth forming that O. The O led on previous nights to digging around trying to free or fix something above the plane over my palate and below the dancer, but last night it opened into the "sound" the way my body opened into the emptiness and the shaking bliss opened into the pervasive bliss of the formless bliss state. Sorry to keep going on about it but it was a huge experience, not like most of the visions, even the awesome ones.

[shaberon]

That is how it works.

You tap the Dharma and a bit of Mirror Wisdom and it rushes forth deeper than you realize and the Bodhisattvas have already delivered a much vaster message than we can keep up with.

Since I have been doing this I have usually felt as if Vajrapani, Master of Secrets was doing the explaining, and he does not mind doing so through his own Vajrapani forms, or whatever will work for the listener.

Although I do not get this kind of presence from Hayagriva, if we can figure out he is a Wrathful Avalokiteshvara, then, so is Ganesh. In that moment, I personally feel that now I could access Avalokiteshvara much more palpably, who was liberated by meditating on the Sound, Ganesh is the Sound.

He is not really revealed in one place. He is like Makara Rider. You have to get a composite of a lot of lore, knowledge, and/or experience for them to emanate.

Yes on the "mainstream" side, I am not that close, but, could get to a Venkateswara temple, the one with the governmental inquiry into the perpetual dowry. What we are saying about Kubera, Ganesh, Wealth, and so on, is only the Raja Yoga or Esoteric meaning. This is much more clear to me if I pick up Buddhist teachings on Vasudhara than probably if I was born in India itself.

Once you have any self-knowledge of Jambhala's Lemons or Vasudhara's Yogurt, then it being described as secret treasure will make perfect sense.

If you go to Japan and follow their Ratnasambhava Equality teaching, it will tell you to steal from the rich and give to the poor, and, this may help understand some "outlaw" or "secret society" behavior.

Yes, the teaching is hidden in plain sight in the word "jungle" and, the whole timekeeping system. Candali is outright Untouchable, which is why this name is usually the leader of other low caste women.

Matangi and Ganesh share a special Ucchista or Scraps relationship. It lies in clues that are scattered in various places. When one sifts the symbols for the inner meaning, it will fall into place.


Buddhipriya (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/buddhipriya) is one of the most important epithets of Ganesh; he is also called Buddha.

Buddhi (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/buddhi) itself does not have any specifically Buddhist definition.

Even among Hindus, it is still unclear what comprises the Ahamkara (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Mann-Chitt-and-Buddhi), what are the different functions of Cit, Citta, Manas, Buddhi.

I would tend to say Manas has a dual role, it can look down into Kama Manas and activate the Skandhas, or, it can merge into Bodhi Citta and look up into Buddhi and the Prajnas.



There is a slightly different "mantric trinity" of Mahavidyas than the one at Guhawati. The instructional form for the Four-fold Om or Word or Speech is Tripura, Tara, and Matangi. The deities are simultaneously a cosmic, mental, or formless equivalent of the physical:

According to the ancient writers on Phonetics, sound or word (वाक् (vāk)) which is constituted of air (वायु (vāyu)) originates at the Mulaadhaaracakra where it is called परा (parā). It then springs up and it is called पश्यन्ती (paśyantī) in the second stage. Thence it comes up and is called मध्यमा (madhyamā) in the third stage; rising up from the third stage when the air strikes against the vocal chords in the glottis and comes in contact with the different parts of the mouth, it becomes articulate and is heard in the form of different sounds. when it is called वैखरी (vaikharī);


According to Shivashakti (https://www.sivasakti.com/tantra/dasa-maha-vidya/matangi/):

Thanks to this resonance between Matangi and Ganesha, the Great Goddess is worshipped as the consort of Ganesha (at a certain level).

Generally speaking, the two consorts of Ganesha are Buddhi (the sparkling intelligence) and Siddhi (the success and effective fulfillment of wishes through paranormal powers).

Tara refers to the Superior Divine Logos (Pashyanti), that implicitly contains everything, Matangi represents the Inferior Divine Logos (Vaikhari), the so called “uttered word”.

This is the lowest level of differentiation of the Divine Logos, the level of the effective utterance of words.

From this point of view (of the expression of the Divine Logos) and compared to Tara and Matangi, Tripura Bhairavi represents the Great Cosmic Wisdom of the transcendent and un-manifested Divine Logos (Paravak).

Therefore, Matangi represents the intermediary, medium level (Madhyama) of the Divine Logos as well. This level governs the ideas that eventually become the words we utter, that is, the process of thinking itself.

At Her highest level, Matangi is Para-Vaikhari, the Supreme Logos that manifests through the means of effective (audible) speech. [I am not sure if they explain "highest level", but it probably means something like after interacting with Ganesh]

Mata (https://srividyasadhana.com/sri-rajamatangi-is-goddess-of-manifestation/) in Matangi is Buddhi. Ganesh is Para, she is Vaikhari.

Ganesh has two wives since Vaikhari--Matangi is necessary before Para Vach or Gauri--Siddhi. It is like Entering the Samadhi of Sound and then progressing in it infinitely.

Siddhidhatri means any/all siddhis which requires any/all shaktis, which is why Ganesh is not like most other deities who only get one shakti. In the Buddhist view, it would mainly be Generation and Completion Stages and the Six Dharmas of Naro, or Seven of Niguma. Plus it would always emphasize the Prajna quality.



Ganapati Homa (https://www.ayurveda-institut-muenchen.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Ganapati-Homa.pdf) is self-promoting and gives reasons why anyone can do Homa and use Vedic mantras. It explains that Guru transmission of a mantra is good, it is like a father opening a bank account for his son with a large starting balance. On your own, you are starting with a zero balance. You can do it, citing Dnyaneshwar as an example, Those are very good details such as mantra explanation and it is a close parallel to any Homa. It is Hindu because it asks Varuna to bless the water, versus Varuni to bless the Soma. It agrees that the underlying principle is to make the personality a vacuum which is inhabited by the deity.

If anybody can do that, I can do that, since it sits very well with what we have already studied. Similarly to using any Vedic mantras, we can use any Sutra mantras and Dharanis. With most of the outer deities, you can also open a "zero balance account", and so I do not have to be able to do a full Chakrasamvara Tri-samadhi Puja. I can muster my feeble attempts through Tara's Saptavidhanuttara or anything else that fits appropriately. The Homa for Ganapati still says to tribute your Ista Devata, so, it is supposed to be in conjunction with something else to begin with. He is supposed to be part of any Homa as an Obstacle Remover, like Amritakundalin or Khandaroha.

Kila is always a Peg or Spike. Where it looks like or is called a dagger, it is confusion or a mistake.

Matangi (https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/11052/who-is-goddess-shyamala) can be involved in a Homa, or stand alone:

Through her grace, vaśīkaraṇa of the Trailokya i.e. Kāya, Vāk and Citta (which are already made strong and free from obstacles through the upāsanā of Mahāgaṇapati) can become possible. Thus then becomes possible the ākarṣaṇa of Manas, Prāṇa and Mantra so as to unite them within the field of pristine awareness, leading to mantra siddhi. Mantra siddhi of Mahārājñī is hence difficult without the grace of Mantriṇī who verily is the essence of Vāk and hence of every mantra. She is thus described as creating innumerable Sarasvatī-s with her mere side glance.

For Tripura Sundari, Matangi serves as Prime Minister (i. e. her voice in the world), whereas Varahi is more like a General (marshall of yoginis). Tri Pura or Three Cities, Manipura and the lower chakras, or the Three Worlds, Bhur, Bhuvar, Svar, Tri Loka, Tri Dhatu, etc.

That description of course suggests Protector Mantranusarini, who comes alive in the weird Pancha Raksa 206 in a way that is almost covered up.

For some reason, the Hindu Matangi explanation refers to the Three Vajras as in Buddhist sadhanas along with the same vocabulary we use to say almost exactly the same thing.

Janguli is a Tri-Kaya, I think she is the only one who bears this designation in the book.

So if I am stalking Janguli like a wild animal, and when I hear Matangi I smell her, then, Ganesh is just going to do whatever he does, like a barnacle, I could not scrape him off.

By "Tara pose" I mean with one foot hanging off the seat, it is usually the other foot. Sometimes this is called Seated Ardhaparyanka.

Janguli is a Tara. Because Tara is reliable to me, I know she can basically just wave her Varada hand, and everything that is compressed in these centuries if not millenia of works will be conveyed. Ganesh is going to "swell" Janguli with the vast bulk of everything I can conceive of yogic knowledge or practice for the foreseeable future. Elephants in the Jungle.

One can go in reverse, so to speak, and do any type of Matangi practice, and then, this will simply compress into the name Matangi as part of Janguli's major form. In other words I would not use Yellow Janguli for a long time. To all appearances, the green one emphasizes her Manasa aspect, and the White one emphasizes Matangi. You do that for a long time until the Six Arm version is able to manifest.

The centrality of Bhutadamara Vajrapani is well expressed by the dead person in the lower right in a setting that is Rime' before there was Rime':

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/6/4/64.jpg




The top is Buddha between a Historical Buddha and Maitreya the Future Buddha, there is Manjushri and representatives from all the schools, Tson Kha Pa, Sakya Pandita, Padmasambhava in the lower aura between a Karmapa and a Drikungpa, and then Jambhala is there.

It is perfectly valid to use a death effigy such as this, or, one's cremation in a Homa. The donor is some unknown person who seemed to believe Vajrapani was a likely helping hand in the Kama Loka.

That is what I did, I started using a death effigy, and the "stir of kundalini" I had been experiencing to a shallow Smoke or Marici stage took a parabolic swing into another world.

Even one of those Hindu sources mentions that Nectar generated in sadhana is two kinds, Poisonous and Pure, and you are supposed to skim the dross. Buddhism has its particular way to do so, but, this appears to be more of an established physiological fact that some arbitrary ritual add-on. It is not the raw nectar but the Cool Mercury which is supposed to be purified. I know there is such a thing, and I know I did not do that.

Why Ganesh is allied to Bhutadamara Vajrapani is "unexplained" according to the website, but, it seems pretty transparent to me.

He is an Avalokiteshvara in the top tier of the Three Reds as is Kurukulla and what might be called Bodhisattva of Fire in Union with Vasudhara Vajrayogini.

The Sakya school appears to strongly suggest this as Completion Stage for most disciples, although they also accept a handful of others, such as Amaravajra.

Considering that my experience was not based from these scriptures, I would still have to say that the signs of Crown Center stability, a thin silver Sushumna, and a Quiet Order are very close to the conditions of the Fourth Joy or Sahaja that will create the Mercury. And it will involve Citta Chakra or the Hum Ho of Vajra Rosary Tantra, which appears to be quite similar to Kurukulla's abilities. When the Nectar reaches here and it opens a bit, you raise the Downward Wind to intercept the liquid and pull it down into the Vessel. One might think, well, it's Yoga, you just meditate on the Heart. Sort of, but not like that. It has inner petals. And so the Suksma Yoga will have us establish the capillary column of Mercury raised beyond the Brahmarandra and it is only around that point that the Inner Chamber and Heart Bindu or Indestructible Drop becomes useful--which is the Square of Inverted Stupa. At that point you are really ready to touch the Heart of the Ista Devata.


I wish I had known how to purify the stuff and how to do that.

My body already knows how to do it physiologically, no one can teach me that, but from the experience, I would say what I have found from studying Buddhism at greater length is of tremendous value.

At the time being, a conscious ability to broadcast formlessness is remarkable, even I would probably not be so loutish as to mistake it for a preta and try to harm it with salt or some spontaneous weapon out of my mind.

I have secured the area for the shrine and been given a Ganesh, so, I am doubly unable to get rid of him.

Gandharvas are a weird circle around Ganesh and the First Keeper of Kama Loka.

The associations of Matangi and Gandhari are here.

It is extremely gruesome, or, pristinely beautiful, according to what one brings to the table. Much like a Mirror. That is why it is interesting that in Dakini Jala, some of the Gauris are like actresses or Moods. The dominance in Tibetan art of Palden Lhamo seems disproportionate to me. There are of course wrathful Lakshmis and Gauris, but, there is a huge point in the concept of Pisaci which means the worst disaster transformed into the greatest success.

I believe it is in Shurungama Sutra where Matangi tempts Ananda, Buddha chides them for being addicted to eons of instinctual habits together, and Matangi is the easier one to relent and convert to Dharma. I suppose she will sensitively respond to whichever of her nine forms is asked for.

She can be drunk, and it may even be the Kadamba wine that Balarama likes.

And when we say Maitreya, it means a future age maybe four hundred thousand years from now, which will be the cycle of Amoghasiddhi. Maitreya's guru will be Parasu Rama, whose wife is Dharani the spell goddess, who is manifested by Amoghasiddhi as the Namasangiti Dharanis, starting with Vasumati Mahalakshmi.

Maitreya is much like the "eighth consciousness" or "future condition". He is not really a major figure of sadhana practice and is not thought of as very interactive with the world. Ganesh would come first, for instance. There is no call for and possibly not even any reference to Maitreya when looking at those Taras and Vajrayoginis that explain the whole Deity Yoga.

Since Ganesh has a Heart Bride, and, Avalokiteshvara has a Heart Bride--Guhyajnana Dakini--the suggestion is obvious. Realizing the nature of Matangi has direct bearing towards the power or existence of Guhyajnana. That means Janguli, who is not called a dakini, has some influence towards that dakini which, at a minimum, holds the power to arrange/organize/compose dakinis, who may otherwise be rude if not vicious.

And so most of the stuff about the Sound is Four-fold Om, but, then it is the Bija of anything. If I am going to summon a deity based in Hum, Hrih, or whatever, that seed syllable goes through the same stages of utterance. So for instance if I want the Yellow Jupiter syllable Brim from Cintamani Vasudhara, then I bring her in and I am going to say Brim with awareness of the stages combined with the feeling of Bhavana and the intent or meaning of the sound. Once you do that, you gain a kind of vertical ability to obtain a more complex Vasudhara, or, a lateral ability to pass the syllable or combine it into something else.

I will certainly look how to incorporate Matangi, it is easy to pick up syllables like Aim and Klim that have no further use in Buddhism. One option is that Kama is KAmala MAtangi as per the Guhawati trinity.

Gayatri:

Om Shukrapriyayai Vidmahe Shrikameshvaryai Dhimahi Tannah Shyama Prachodayat॥

Shukrapriya is a pomengrante, or, on fruit:

Names like 'Shyamala' and 'Shukrapriya' are also used for purple as they look like parrots.

Maha mantra:

Ucchista Chandalini Sri Matangeswari

Sarvagyanavashamakari Swaha



Sumukhi mantra:

om ucchiṣṭacāṇḍalini sumuki devi mahāpiśācini hrīṁ ṭhaḥ ṭhaḥ ṭhaḥ

Perhaps the Buddhist tabulation of her as a Pisaci is not unfounded and relates mainly to her Ucchista form.

[shaberon]

It has been said that if Matangi seems to call to you, she is ready to come to you.

I will tie that in to my Janguli plans, but, I still have only a crude idea of this significant aspect.


It is customary to invoke Ganesh (http://paratan.com/mahavidya_mantras.html) before Mahavidya practice, to clean the cobwebs out of your subtle body.

When looking at Matangi, we will find her Seed Syllable is Aim, and if we want to know what this is, then it takes us back to Sarasvati. Nothing different about these seeds, considered the Sound syllable.

Well, we do not quite have Aim in Buddhism. We do have a Red Vajra Sarasvati related to Hrih and the Cotton, Picu, or Prajnavardhani mantra, which is shared with Prajnaparamita, and used in the Namasangiti Dharanis.

Mam Bija is understandably found with Manjushri, Maitreya (Maim), and Marici. It is also Mamaki, and therefor Varuni, who is never Vam or the Water syllable itself. However, Vajra Sarasvati 164 mentions:

bibhratīṃ bījamaṃkāraṃ girām iva samuccayam //



162 is a Mahamaya Sarasvati with:

sanālasitasarojadharāṃ

Sa Anala Sita Saroja [Lotus]

and then a bit further along, a white Mom syllable has something to do with Avitchi:

tataḥ svanābhipradeśe candramaṇḍale
sitamoṃkāraṃ dhyātvā tato niścarantīm aśeṣa-
vāṅmayamālām avicchinnapravāhāṃ cintayan mantram āvartayet /

So I am not sure why she has weird, unrelated syllables thrust into her sadhanas. They are almost always something evident, and what she is doing with forms of Ma makes no sense offhandedly.

Then if we really crunch it, a fairly regular view of Sanskrit syllable schemes will return something akin to the famous Evam or E Vam of Buddhist Sutra and Tantra.

In an assortment of letters broken down by planets, Sarasvati has E or Ai (https://www.hindu-blog.com/2019/10/matangi-mantra-sadhana.html) as equivalents. Its use produces Jala Bija--which is Va or Vam for Vari, which is Water or Amrita.

Aim is the "next thing to" Aum or Om. Om is not really a letter, but Ai or Aim is. And then if we ignore the "chanting" M, Ai or E at least is used in Buddhism quite extensively. When combined with M, something like Aim is pronounced like "I'm", and I do not know the grammar well enough to tell when it is more like E or "long a". The E, the short a in "apple", and the more familiar Ah are all fundamental. Generally, they all seem conducive to one sound producing all sounds, one guru or yidam producing whatever is needed, like a visible form of Om.


The letters description then for whatever reason breaks down Matangi mantra by syllables, and:

mā : Mother bīja

taṁ : gives the power to attract, people will come to you, accomplisher of things capable of achieving all perfections (sarva siddhi) in combination with Saraswatī bīja.

yai/ya : Vāyu bīja, peace giver, prostration

ai : Saraswatī bīja, giver of vidyā (knowledge) and siddhi (perfection), origin of Jala bīja (from here the water starts flowing-creation, creative energy), ends enmity

ya + ai = yai : Vidyā and siddhi for the purpose of peace

mātaṅgyai: Attracting the Mother for knowledge and peace (Mataṅga means elephant, the person becomes as powerful as an elephant).

I am not sure why they overlook the "g" that is in her name, but if we look into it, the first thing that will come rushing out is Ganesh.

Suddenly she has an incredibly magic name:

Ma [Mata] Tam [Tara] Gi [Ganesh?] Ya [Vayu] Ai [Sarasvati]

The "g" could perhaps merely be a nasalization of the preceding consonant, and thereby indistinct. From here, we are pretty safe at least in considering "Ma" as meaningful to her, especially if it is half of Kama at Kamarupa--Guhawati.

Or, if she is the Sound Ai or E, then we can use her as a vowel and look at how this may relate to the Buddhist E Vam. Normal Sarasvati cannot do that part, because it is tantric, so if anything, it would have to be Matangi--who has also lately been usually called Mantrini, which means the M is still good.




Her practice revolves around the Third (https://www.hindu-blog.com/2019/10/matangi-mantra-sadhana.html) day of the moon, red, and northeast.

She is also called Sosika (http://www.shivashakti.com/sosika.htm) in Gandharva Tantra. However there is some notion that Sosika is really Buddhist (https://devi-1.blogspot.com/2017/04/29-apr-2017-matangi-devitantric.html), and that the Matangi--Ananda story, being among the oldest in Buddhism, was a cover for Matangi to develop in tantric Buddhism and later be returned to the Mahavidyas. Her mother in the story is Mahavidya Dhari.

She is also Jyestha (https://www.manblunder.com/articlesview/variations-of-matangi-mantra) which is a type of Alakshmi.

She is still rather obscure, here is a long quote of Ganesh and Matangi (https://www.facebook.com/424910937646895/posts/the-9th-mahavidya-matangi-is-never-given-the-same-honour-like-other-mahavidyas-s/1433343073470338/) which explains a few of their murtis:

"Ganapati is associated with Matangi very deeply. So I had to clarify their differences before going to the story of Mohiniswar Ucchista Ganapati -the Ganapati of Matangi.

Once upon a time, their was a great demon ,Vidyavana , who was very proud of his vedic knowledge and lifestyle. In his reigns, Brahmins were allowed to do their vedic sadhana and all the vedic rituals were done properly. But this vedic centric activities made the life of Sudras, Chandalas and all non vedic people hard to spend. They were tormented and suffered. Even the gods of heaven suffered due to this. Because, Vidyavana spread only Brahmavad, where Nirgun Brahma will be worshiped and other deities will be rejected. As the gods were used to drink wine and eating meat, Vidyavana proclaimed them Smleccha ( heretic) and stop the wine offerings to Indra and other gods. This made all gods suffer. So they prayed to Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva took Avatara as Rishi Matanga and did great sadhana of goddess Neela Saraswati. Pleased with him, the goddess born as his daughter from the yajnakunda of rishi Matanga. As Matanga's daughter she came to be known as Matangi.

As Matangi blossomed her first flower, Rishi Matanga wanted to tie her knot with a perfect gentleman. But none of the vedic brahmin wanted to marry Matangi, nor the vedic influenced any Kshatriyas as she was dark in colour( black colour was associated with non vedic people). Matangi did sadhna of Lord Ganapati to have a husband. Rishi Matanga gave her intiation in 32 letter mahamantra of Ucchista Ganapati. Both the father and daughter did sadhna of this form of lord. Pleased with them, Lord Ucchista Ganapati appeared from the yajnakunda of Matangasrama. He was completely naked, red in colour, he had a head of an Elephant. This peculiar form impressed Matangi. She proposed to marry him. Lord Ganapati agreed to marry her. And they were married at the month of Chaitra in sukla sasthi.

All gods then pleaded to lord Ganapati to kill demon Vidyavana as they came to know, only this half human half elephant form of Almighty can kill Vidyavana( Vidyavana was granted by lord Brahma that he will be killed only by that human , who has a head of animal , who will act like an animal but he will be a brahma-gyani. As for Vidyavana one who spend his life like an animal can not have wisdom of redemption ).

Lord Ganapati promised them that he will do the job. Lord Ganapati then spread the non vedic path of Hinduissm which came to be known as Vamachara (actually Vamachara is vast. Ucchista Ganapati only spread its one part which is known as Ucchistacharam). This path was easy, and very unique. All the vedic rishis left their vedic ways to practice this left path. Lord Ganapati taught them this path, while he was in union with his spouse Matangi. When Vidyavana came to know this way of sadhana,he became furious. He wanted to destroy this path. He came before Ucchista Ganapati, and saw an Elephant headed naked man, was having sex with his wife, who was dark in colour. All the disciple of him, were in same state with their spouses. They were eating meat and fish. They were drunk but still they were chanting Vedic mantras without any wrong pronunciations. Vidyavana was shocked and asked Lord Ganapati to have a debate. So that vidyavan can defeat him. The condition was whoever will lose in battle, will be killed by the winner. Lord Ganapati agreed. And still in union with his spouse he started the war of the words with Vidyavana. This debate continued for 6 days. In the 7th day of krishna chaturdasi of Vaisakha month, Vidyavana was defeated in debate. Lord Ganapati proofed his vedic philosophy wrong, as he said: why can be anything wrong or right, sin or virtue, purity or impurity, high or low... if everything is brahma 'सर्वं खल्विदं व्रह्मासि' . How can you divide anything in this world as divine or non divine if everything is nothing but Brahma itself. It is Maya, my beloved Maya who has blinded you with this dualism. So that you can not understand what true Brahma is!...'

Lord Ganapati described him the Ucchista Suktam of Atharva veda. And taught him the great Yoga of Ucchistachara. As vidyavana was defeated in the debate, he was immediately killed by lord Ganapati by his Ankusha.
All the living and non living creatures praised him. All the gods and demons praised him. He then proclaimed, in the dark age of Kaliyuga , 'only my path can give salvation. Vedic path will be impossible to follow in that age, also will be fruitless. In Satyayuga Veda to be followed, in Treta Smriti to be followed, in Dvapara Purana should be followed but in Kaliyuga वाममार्गैक केवलम् . '

After this, lord dissappeared with his spouse Matangi. From that day on, Lord Ucchista Ganapati of 32 letter mantra came to be associated with Matangi. Though this Matangi form, who is Ganapati's wife is none but Ucchista Chandalini.

There is another Matangi, who defeated lord Shiva in debate by her beautiful song of vedic wisdom, later she got married to Lord Shiva. This form of Matangi is known as Laghu Shyama. For her Ananda Ganapati is to be worshiped.

Raja Shyama is the minister of Sri Lalita. For her Trailokyamohana Ganapati is to be worshiped.

Before going to battle against Ayodanasura, Bhubaneswari did great sadhana of Ganapati. As he granted her obstacle free victory, Bhubaneswari gave her two mind born daughters- Sumukhi( with whom lord came to be known as Sumukha) and Mohini ( with whom lord came to be known as Mohiniswar ) to lord Ganapati as Arghya.

It is also said that Moda Ganapati was worshiped by Matangi ( Shiva patni), before going to battle against demon Kilakasura."


It looks to me that Buddhism has harnessed the main two male prodigals, Mars is Manjushri and Ganesh is Avalokiteshvara. They are in a certain sense, "brothers", and the lore suggests that Red Avalokiteshvara emanated all the Hindu deities, Manjushri gave their mantras, and Vajrapani converted them to Buddhism.

Sarasvati is female Manjushri, and, although it looks like she may continue and grow into Matangi and become the consort of Ganesh--Avalokiteshvara, he is not yet done, he just needs her to get to his ultimate destination--although it looks like he needs some Manasa as well, since he may gain her hood. There must be some kind of background to it, as here is a modern instance from Thailand:

https://onarto.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Yun-Khanesha-Under-Naga-Hood-90-x-100-50.jpg





I would not have a problem if Mam was Matangi--Sound until it became Marici--Light, which actually makes a ton of sense compared to, for example, Avalokiteshvara means meditating on the Sound until the Light is seen. Matangi is much more immanent, whereas Marici, at least in her more powerful forms, requires a hypostasis. Nothing says in texts these are related, except for the whole idea that Primordial Sound is supposed to reveal light of a non-earthly nature. Nothing really explains how Janguli is involved. But when you contemplate the symbolism, compared with the fact that there is "nothing else like this", it is entirely feasible.

Matangi is Priya of the Suka, "parrot", not Sukra--Venus, and also of the Kadamba.

Her Ucchista form has its own Gayatri:

Om Maatngyae Ch Vidhmhe Uchchhisht Chaandaalyae Ch Dhimhi Tanho Devi Prachodyat

The old link went dead, here is another to Mangala Rupini, which is among the most musically immaculate of these songs. It is related to Matangi in thinking of her as part of Kamakshi or Meenakshi Madhurai. By the refrain, it is a bit more of a Gauri song, but, she does a Buddhist Karuna, which is Dukha Nivarana or removing suffering.


V6a0ODT9Mdk


Dhukka Nivarana Ashtakam
****************************
Mangala roopini madhiyani soolini manmadha paaniyale,
Sangadam neengida saduthiyil vandhidum shankari soundariye,
Kangana paaniyan kanimugam kanda nal karpaga kaminiye,
Jeya jeya shankari gowri kripakari dhukka nivarani kamakshi.

Kaanuru malarena kadhiroli kaatti kaathida vandhiduvaal,
Thaanuru thavaoli thaaroli madhioli thaangiye veesiduvaal,
Maanuru vizhizhaal maadhavar mozhizhaal maalaigal soodiduvaal,
Jeya jeya shankari gowri kripakari dhukka nivarani kamakshi.

Shankari soundari chaturmukan potrida sabayinil vandhavale,
Pongari maavinil ponn adi vaithu porindhida vandhavale,
Yenkulam thazhaithida ezhil vadivudane ezhunthanal durgayale,
Jeya jeya shankari gowri kripakari dhukka nivarani kamakshi.

Dhanadhana dhann dhana thaviloli muzhangida thanmani nee varuvaay,
Gangana gan gana kadhiroli veesida kannmani nee varuvaay,
Banbana bam bana parai oli koovida pannmani nee varuvaay,
Jeya jeya shankari gowri kripakari dhukka nivarani kamakshi.

Panchami bhairavi parvatha puthri panchanal paaniyale,
Konjidum kumaranai gunamigu vezhanai koduththanal kumariyale,
Sangadam theerthida samaradhu seythanal shakthi enum maaye,
Jeya jeya shankari gowri kripakari dhukka nivarani kamakshi.

Enniyapadi nee arulida varuvaay en kula deviyale,
Panniya seyalin palan adhu nalamaay palgida aruliduvaay,
Kannoli adhanaal karunayai kaatti kavalaigal theerpavale,
Jeya jeya shankari gowri kripakari dhukka nivarani kamakshi.

Idar tharum thollai inimel illai endru nee solliduvaay,
Sudar tharum amudhe sruthigal koori sugam adhu thandhiduvaay,
Padar tharum irulil paridhiyaay vandhu pazhavinay ottiduvaay,
Jeya jeya shankari gowri kripakari dhukka nivarani kamakshi.

Jeya jeya bala chamundeshwari jeya jeya sridevi,
Jeya jeya durga sriparameshwari jeya jeya sridevi,
Jeya jeya jayanthi mangalakaali jeya jeya sridevi,
Jeya jeya shankari gowri kripakari dhukka nivarani kamakshi.


Matangi is certainly not mentioned by name, but, that actually never matters, because: she is the creation of this or any music. At the end, you see Chamunda and Mangala Kali, which is probably Bhadrakali, all of them being Sri.

Sri is like the tenth Mahavidya, Kamala, who I'm not sure does much but display golden light, and so Matangi is perhaps the most active agent of these shaktis.

Sumukhi as an epithet of Matangi refers to a Laukikya Apsara or Gandharva Daughter in the Vayu and Brahmanda Puranas; and then she is the mother of the serpent Asvasena (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/ashvasena) (son of Taksaka) who has a convuluted adventure in the Mahabharata, although in his final act, he meets Krishna. He is a Kama Naga Arrow, or, more generally, Kama's Five Arrows.


Blue Bhutadamara Ganapati is completely disingenuous because this is where the typically mispelled mantra is a variant of the Sumbha Nisumbha (https://books.google.com/books?id=AdtYxZoG228C&lpg=PA182&ots=A-MrE3netk&dq=sumbha%20nisumbha%20hum&pg=PA182#v=onepage&q=sumbha%20nisumbha%20hum&f=false) theme used in Chakrasamvara, which, as soon as you look into it, you have to deal with a victory of Durga and the stories of incarnations of Hindu entities. And eventually, Sumbha is the main male deity at the Nadir.

This is parallel to Serpent Noose which seems to develop in goddess hands through Aparajita and perhaps Janguli until it becomes the identifying feature of the Nadir goddess.

In some of the descriptions, Matangi is physically the lower energy rising to the throat, and, in others, the mental circulation of energy between throat and ajna.

Janguli somewhat replicates this in her white form; 106 is after Sukla Tara, and 122 is the end of her batch after Mahasri Tara. They are virtually identical, except the second one does a little more.

The difference is in the spelling of a phrase, the first having a gurudesvara, the second, garudesvaratvam. She is related to the lord of gurus, or of garudas, depending. The two other appearances of Garudesvara make it seem the likely choice.

Both of them have an unusual Three Places, which is Ah Hrih Hum. And it winds up being her Throat syllable Hrih which becomes the magnet or Hook or Akarsya of her Jnana Sattva and the Tathagatas.

If she has some weird lateral correspondence to Lotus Family Hrih goddesses, they are returning the favor by energizing her throat, which would be particularly handy if she is to remain a mistress of mantra and song. Since she is also called a Mahavidya, we can be fairly certain the wisdom of her is at least partially found within sounds emanated on her behalf.

[Old Student]

That is how it works.

You tap the Dharma and a bit of Mirror Wisdom and it rushes forth deeper than you realize and the Bodhisattvas have already delivered a much vaster message than we can keep up with.

I haven't reproduced anything, but I did tweak the same switch in my crown today, it was profoundly calming.



Yes, the teaching is hidden in plain sight in the word "jungle" and, the whole timekeeping system. Candali is outright Untouchable, which is why this name is usually the leader of other low caste women.

I get the feeling it also, along with Matangi used as an adjective, describes the women in the charnel grounds/jungle described in Kali's Odiyya, as well, they are "out caste" by choice and calling.


According to the ancient writers on Phonetics, sound or word (वाक् (vāk)) which is constituted of air (वायु (vāyu)) originates at the Mulaadhaaracakra where it is called परा (parā). It then springs up and it is called पश्यन्ती (paśyantī) in the second stage. Thence it comes up and is called मध्यमा (madhyamā) in the third stage; rising up from the third stage when the air strikes against the vocal chords in the glottis and comes in contact with the different parts of the mouth, it becomes articulate and is heard in the form of different sounds. when it is called वैखरी (vaikharī);


According to Shivashakti:

Thanks to this resonance between Matangi and Ganesha, the Great Goddess is worshipped as the consort of Ganesha (at a certain level).

Generally speaking, the two consorts of Ganesha are Buddhi (the sparkling intelligence) and Siddhi (the success and effective fulfillment of wishes through paranormal powers).

Tara refers to the Superior Divine Logos (Pashyanti), that implicitly contains everything, Matangi represents the Inferior Divine Logos (Vaikhari), the so called “uttered word”.

So this might include the deep humming coming from the spine and the muladhara that resonates with so many things and in particular Om? It really does feel like it pervades everything, which is what they say about this syllable.


By "Tara pose" I mean with one foot hanging off the seat, it is usually the other foot. Sometimes this is called Seated Ardhaparyanka.

So just the feet.


Considering that my experience was not based from these scriptures, I would still have to say that the signs of Crown Center stability, a thin silver Sushumna, and a Quiet Order are very close to the conditions of the Fourth Joy or Sahaja that will create the Mercury. And it will involve Citta Chakra or the Hum Ho of Vajra Rosary Tantra, which appears to be quite similar to Kurukulla's abilities. When the Nectar reaches here and it opens a bit, you raise the Downward Wind to intercept the liquid and pull it down into the Vessel. One might think, well, it's Yoga, you just meditate on the Heart. Sort of, but not like that. It has inner petals. And so the Suksma Yoga will have us establish the capillary column of Mercury raised beyond the Brahmarandra and it is only around that point that the Inner Chamber and Heart Bindu or Indestructible Drop becomes useful--which is the Square of Inverted Stupa. At that point you are really ready to touch the Heart of the Ista Devata.

So this plus the part before seems to make sense. Perhaps the liquid is from the nectar the split at the throat? I had it again last night even though I did not repeat the experience related to you before. I'm not understanding, and perhaps am not yet meant to, why it is so light and seems so lacking in viscosity compared to usual saliva.


At the time being, a conscious ability to broadcast formlessness is remarkable, even I would probably not be so loutish as to mistake it for a preta and try to harm it with salt or some spontaneous weapon out of my mind.

Whoever it was seemed to experience it (however) and also seemed to have been waiting for it/meditating to achieve it. It was the first flitting that made me truly happy afterwards like I'd understood more of it than just a glint.


She can be drunk, and it may even be the Kadamba wine that Balarama likes.

This again seems familiar.

Edited ---

I nearly forgot. Bhutadamara Vajrapani is standing on a white figure with four arms. I have never seen one of the figures they stand on have more arms before?

[shaberon]

Bhutadamara Vajrapani tramples male Aparajita.

Yes, if you get a humming from the root or bulb, that is valid.


Ucchista Ganapati (https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/33760/about-ucchistaganapathi-and-why-its-regarded-as-highest-ganesha-form) is hard to appreciate until seeing he says not to bathe after eating. Normally, eating makes you ritually impure and you have to bathe, and I, for one, have never paid any attention to that with regard to yoga practice, so it is already a bit of an Ucchista method for me. One of his personal mantras is:

Om hreem gang hasti-pishaachi likhe svaha

and even in this tantra, they do not really have union, it says Hasti or in his hand is a Pisaci:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4q24Il6_twM/WB33wRGdHCI/AAAAAAAABac/DjRad2VtoiIHPfJjjsK_Xua-pgMTzannQCLcB/s640/Uchishta%2Bwith%2BNila-Laraswati.jpg


which is as close as it gets. In Buddhist tantra, this would still be called an Embrace. There is some debate that the consort is Neel Sarasvati (https://amritananda-natha-saraswati.blogspot.com/2016/11/uchishta-ganapathy.html).

In Buddhism, Sarasvati is Vetali, whereas Matangi is Pisaci.

The Ganesh consort may be dark, or red.

I plugged Sarasvati into a wormhole, and, Ganesh has just come out the other side.

They may look like icons, but, something is going on here.

What is doubly curious is that Matangi is asserted as installing the benefits to a household, which is the right timing, since the need of Parnasabari has been passed. She is never completely gone, but, the main first part of things that needed to be cleaned and organized is done.

Even more powerfully, Matangi is granted the third day, and Manasa and the Nagas get the fifth. So the two aspects of Janguli are very close. Ganesh for his own rite seems to be directed to the waning fortnight. As perhaps the original type of Krodha or Wrathful deity as currently used, then, it could be conceivable to use Ganesh around the fifteenth, and another one later on.

I am not yet quite sure how to welcome Ganesh into my aura. Really it should be the other name, Ganapati.

Mata (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/mata) legitimately has piles of synonyms about knowing or forming an opinion, which is parallel to the arising of thought or manas to make speech. Extrapolated, it also means Mother Tara. The end of the name is Ya Ai, and it would be this Ai that really means Matangi. So if we take her nasalized "-ng" to be a sort of non-letter diacritical mark, it breaks down to Mother Tara Vayu Matangi. If we do away with expected parts, we are left with Vayu.

According to Red Zambala:

After the terror of the night appears the reassuring sunlight. The demons are defeated; Mātaṅgī, the Elephant power, establishes the rule of peace, of calm, of prosperity. The day is, however, a dream, a mirage that appears in the eternal night. As a form of night, Mātaṅgī is therefore the Night-of-Delusion (Moha-Rātri).

No derivation is forthcoming that says why it means "elephant", which has other synonyms, but that is its only definition other than goddess terms. The main Elephant Woman used in Buddhism is "Hastini", so, you see the potential play in the Ganesh mantra.

The Buddhist sadhanas direct me to Pisaci Matangi and Matta Matangi, which does not really mean that Rajeshwari or others are invalid. It does mean it complements Ucchista Ganesh, which, at the very least, is suited for someone who does not know all the ritual cleanliness rules, and shares Buddha's opinion that strict adherence to them is unnecessary.

I have the feeling that the Matangi aspect of Janguli is ready to manifest like a volcano, and that the Manasa aspect may be hard, like Dhanada Krama Tara is said to be hard. That is fine.

[Old Student]

Aim is the "next thing to" Aum or Om. Om is not really a letter, but Ai or Aim is. And then if we ignore the "chanting" M, Ai or E at least is used in Buddhism quite extensively. When combined with M, something like Aim is pronounced like "I'm", and I do not know the grammar well enough to tell when it is more like E or "long a". The E, the short a in "apple", and the more familiar Ah are all fundamental. Generally, they all seem conducive to one sound producing all sounds, one guru or yidam producing whatever is needed, like a visible form of Om.

It's written "ऐं", so the m is probably similar to Om (although according to my Sanskrit book it is supposed to be a chandrabindu not an anusvara technically, since Ai is a vowel) when drawn out, but the vowel sound is the same as the French river "Seine", and the anusvara is normally nasalized and not pronounced with the lips.


The letters description then for whatever reason breaks down Matangi mantra by syllables, and:

mā : Mother bīja

taṁ : gives the power to attract, people will come to you, accomplisher of things capable of achieving all perfections (sarva siddhi) in combination with Saraswatī bīja.

yai/ya : Vāyu bīja, peace giver, prostration

ai : Saraswatī bīja, giver of vidyā (knowledge) and siddhi (perfection), origin of Jala bīja (from here the water starts flowing-creation, creative energy), ends enmity

ya + ai = yai : Vidyā and siddhi for the purpose of peace

mātaṅgyai: Attracting the Mother for knowledge and peace (Mataṅga means elephant, the person becomes as powerful as an elephant).

I am not sure why they overlook the "g" that is in her name, but if we look into it, the first thing that will come rushing out is Ganesh.

Suddenly she has an incredibly magic name:

Ma [Mata] Tam [Tara] Gi [Ganesh?] Ya [Vayu] Ai [Sarasvati]

The "g" could perhaps merely be a nasalization of the preceding consonant, and thereby indistinct. From here, we are pretty safe at least in considering "Ma" as meaningful to her, especially if it is half of Kama at Kamarupa--Guhawati.

This is a very cool breakdown, thanks, it makes the name come to life.


In some of the descriptions, Matangi is physically the lower energy rising to the throat, and, in others, the mental circulation of energy between throat and ajna.

Rising to the throat from where? From the chest maybe?

[Old Student]

In Buddhist tantra, this would still be called an Embrace. There is some debate that the consort is Neel Sarasvati.

Matangi's portrayal is as a Blue Sarasvati sort of, isn't it? You showed one on the other post. So does the reference mean Matangi?

From the reference:

Uchishta Ganapathy is called great, because he does not reject anything as puja.
No, because Uchishta means begging. Beggars can't be choosers, maybe.


No derivation is forthcoming that says why it means "elephant"

In the Buddhist tale, they reference "Matanga" as meaning "elephant hunter."


The Buddhist sadhanas direct me to Pisaci Matangi and Matta Matangi, which does not really mean that Rajeshwari or others are invalid. It does mean it complements Ucchista Ganesh, which, at the very least, is suited for someone who does not know all the ritual cleanliness rules, and shares Buddha's opinion that strict adherence to them is unnecessary.

All of this has reminded me of Machig Labdron's Chod.

With respect to the thing I speculated about the terms "Chandali woman" and "matangi" as a "disheveled Chandali woman" adjective. There was a "discussion", lesson is perhaps a better word, of this in my shaking last night. There was a new power pose that was somehow the "charnel aspect" of things personified, which got mostly explained in a way that was like, "Everyone has their "charnel aspect"". They then put me in the shaman thing -- where I am standing in the mountains and my clear body is "expanded" so there is only a thin layer between its skin and my physical skin. I was then pressed to observe myself from the clear body. When I didn't do this correctly (didn't interpret correctly so that there was again space between and my clear body and physical body were separately dressed), they pressed the thin layer until it disappeared and my "me" said very clearly, "Oh, now I am dressed in human skin." -- my charnel aspect, I assume.

[shaberon]

In the physical aspect of speech, Para is described as beginning in the Muladhara, and rising through the other centers until it becomes Vaikhari or manifest speech in the head. This was the basic description of Matangi. In a more advanced mode of Unstruck Sound, she was described as the interplay mainly from throat to ajna.

I would say they are all provisional stages, since Four-fold Om can apply to other syllables, or have different "pathways" when related to consciousness, which is the basic principle of Four Activities, and/or the Four Dakinis who continue through all the tantras.

It appears correct that Buddhism would not start it at the root, but, at the core, dantian, or solar plexus. In other words, it would tend to skip the physical auto-start, and immediately begin a Noumenal process with the intention of gathering heat.

There is a Blue Matangi, and yes, the term has something to do with elephants, but it is not plain, for example if I look at Gaja it would tell me "elephant" and show ways it could become "elephant hunter" or "elephant person" and so on. Hastini is the Buddhist term, which applies to Lama.

Lama is "Paramour" according to Snellgrove, related to lamate for playfulness, whereas he observes Khandaroha is Dum skyes ma (http://www.richardlawrencejosephson.com/files/Snellgrove_2002.pdf), "Arising from fragments", which is Generation Stage, which is why I suggest the weird "Dhuma Kaye" found in the Guyhajnana and Ziro Bhusana mantras is *probably* Dum skyes.

Hastini (https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.532369/2015.532369.buddhist-tantras_djvu.txt) and the others occupy Sahaja, Kshetra, and Dharani levels, i. e. secret, inner, and outer, the three wheels of time.

Tara did not actually...directly interface with Ganesh. It is episode eleven in the Golden Rosary (http://chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/The_Golden_Rosary_of_Tara,_by_Lama_Taranatha) at Mathura, Protecting from the Fear of Harm Inflicted by Messengers of Indra, who are understood as the Gandharvas. In this case they are Vinayakas, mischievous spirits, that the mere suggestion of Tara easily calmed.

It only makes sense if knowing Ganesh is also the Gandharva class and also known for misbehavior.

A Matangi song (http://www.guruvayur4u.com/html/manikyaveena.htm) mentions Mahendra and Manasa in the first few lines, and says Matangi is tantric Sarasvati. Manasa is the common term for "mentally", i. e. "manasa japa" is to mentally recite a mantra.

Durga in her Thousand Names (https://templesinindiainfo.com/1000-names-of-sri-durga-sahasranama-stotram-3-lyrics-in-english/) includes:

matangi rasika matta malini malyadharini ।
mohini mudita krsna muktida modaharsita ॥ 51 ॥


devi daksayani daksadamani darunaprabha ।
mari marakari mrsta mantrini mantravigraha ॥ 55 ॥



Another Matangi (https://www.karnatik.com/c19626.shtml) song says:

mAnavati mAm pAhi mandahAsa vadani sundarAngi rAja mAtangi

anupallavi

gAna rUpiNi gauri kAtyAyani kadamba vana vAsini

The same type of forest is in a Syamala Stuti. (http://www.sangeetasudha.org/bhaktisudha/B8.html)

Kadamba Vana Vasini (https://www.indiadivine.org/content/topic/1016077-immortal-kadamba-tree/) is a title shared between Matangi and others, which actually refers to Garuda, which, during its struggle, let fall a drop of nectar onto the Kadamba tree.

Ganesh Armor (https://www.kamakoti.org/kamakoti/articles/STOTRA_KAVACHA.pdf) is the first section in a major book produced by Kamakoti, and here, we see he is Lambodara or "pot-bellied", which is the same term as used in Buddhist sadhanas for all of the Yaksha types that I just call Fat. It is really more of a pregnant look which refers to the gestation of inner heat and/or the pregnancy of knowable things or of successful attainment.

Ucchista's Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uchchhishta_Ganapati) page goes as far as to call "the consort" Vighneshvari. He may be blue or red, with four, or, the almost-forbidden six arms. He is trying to have intercourse, he is doing mantra but since he has a trunk, he is also doing something to the goddess, which makes her emit orgasmic cries.


Their identities are murky, however, in Buddhism, almost anything may be used in a mantra of:

Om Ah [name or initial] Hum Svaha

and so the Red Ganapati from the first few pages of Rinjung Gyatsa is actually the Twelve Arm form as in the Sakya Golden Dharmas, and he uses:

Om Ah Gah Hum Svaha

So it is a major Completion Stage deity which one can almost Hook simply by a semi-educated guess because the same method is used in basics all the way through Kalachakra. The teaching strongly suggests that almost anything can be anchored this way.

Ganapati's primary Buddhist roles are this, and the blue Bhutadamara form which uses the Sumbha Nisumbha mantra, which returns us to the origin of wrathful practice and the Vinayakas and so on. Even his mount, Musti, a mouse or rat, is actually a Gandharva undergoing penance for being a bit too proud.

The Atisha version of Radish or Sweets Ganapati refers to some of the other forms (he is said to have five with a shakti) where his "treat" is part of his flirting to attract the goddess into intercourse.

So Ganesh or Ganapati is something like an important subject, who eventually gets compressed into a function and is not really the ultimate destination of the rite. If we study Homa, it is something like he gets bottled with the solar energy and rolls the dice for the Aswins, and is not ever shown to personally benefit by for example living out the destinies of his marriages.

It is possible he is blended or transfers into Amritakundalin, the more general Buddhist Obstacle Remover.

In one of these descriptions, Pukkasi is Outcaste and Candali is called Half-caste. In the Pisaci mantra, they are all distinct from Matangi.

I personally think Matangi would give a bit more mileage, Ganapati being the necessary conditions to perceive her, and then Matangi being the thing experienced. It seems to come with enough reason to at least let Ganapati get his feet on the ground in terms of being an active presence. He does not seem intended to replace an Ista Devata; he does seem important towards handling wrathful activity at the Gandharva level.

[Old Student]

It appears correct that Buddhism would not start it at the root, but, at the core, dantian, or solar plexus. In other words, it would tend to skip the physical auto-start, and immediately begin a Noumenal process with the intention of gathering heat.

I have had several "mixings" between my shaking and my standing meditation recently -- maybe more accurately, I have had the standing meditation access things that were previously accessible only from shaking. One of them seems related here, where the heat that forms at dantian is actually forming beneath this and pushing up and becoming the heat at dantian. So I have sort of direct experience with this idea. The short A feels different this way but it gets just as hot and goes up the same way.


There is a Blue Matangi, and yes, the term has something to do with elephants, but it is not plain, for example if I look at Gaja it would tell me "elephant" and show ways it could become "elephant hunter" or "elephant person" and so on. Hastini is the Buddhist term, which applies to Lama.

matanga is listed if I put in elephant to the dictionary, hastin is also elephant (long a), closer to the modern hati, and as you say, gaja.


In one of these descriptions, Pukkasi is Outcaste and Candali is called Half-caste. In the Pisaci mantra, they are all distinct from Matangi.

All I can get for Pukkasi is that it means indigo. Oddly, if you try to look up the "undescribed" word from Tara's mantra, tuttare, you will get that tuttha also means indigo. I know indigo is a really big thing in the subcontinent, so lots of words that come out indigo isn't that surprising. Like all the shades of blue as well.

[shaberon]

All I can get for Pukkasi is that it means indigo. Oddly, if you try to look up the "undescribed" word from Tara's mantra, tuttare, you will get that tuttha also means indigo. I know indigo is a really big thing in the subcontinent, so lots of words that come out indigo isn't that surprising. Like all the shades of blue as well.

Ok, yes, that is another way to think about it, sometimes you have to revert an "i" ending back to masculine to see something like "elephant".

I only saw Pukkasi as "indigo" for quite a while but, it turns out she inhabits a charnel ground in Nepal and is either at par with or is Hariti or Sitala. The name is very rare in the sadhanas, but is in Lotus Sutra.

The syncretic (https://www.mahajrya.org/files/English/Lotus_Dharanis_EN.pdf) site expounds this dharani in a way that seems to me inadequate, but uses the version:

agane gane gauri gandhari chandali matangi janguly vrusani agashti

another version:

Agane gane gauri gandhari candali matangi [pukkashi] samkule vrusali sisi [svaha].

Either one carries the meaning of causing King Dhritarashtra and the Gandharvas to protect a student of Lotus Sutra.

As you can see, it would raise an immediate question if Janguli is Pukkasi, but, she is already Matangi, and, it does say Matangi Pukkasi in the Pisaci mantra in sadhanas. Then is Pukkasi Manasa to settle the score? I don't....think so...are these Gandharva Pisacis? What is that?

There is a version where Virudhaka speaks it. So, the identities are a bit fuzzy, but the classes of beings involved are pretty much the same.

I have not noticed anywhere this even comes up as a subject.

It should not be too abstruse, after all, it is used similarly by Parnasabari, who is already a major exoteric deity, who is being heavily promoted these days. But I do not think they say anything about this so far.

Pukkasi is in the last of the half-Sadhanamala in the retinue for Nairatma 228 in her ring of Gauris. So this Pisaci class must be Gauris. Nairatma is a later-composed sadhana that uses the more standard ring that ends on Dombi. This is where Dakini Jala is much different and more like Moods such as Nectar Vetali. Whereas the "Book of the Dead" style is even more violent than the Nairatma--Hevajra ones. I think we have accumulated four or five versions of this class of retinue or ring.

The subtle ring of Vajraraudris is related to this, but only appears in the Samputa style.

They are a bit like saying the Vidyadharas or their Realm is a special emanation of throat energy, so, whereas the ordinary person is said to face the Hundred Peaceful and Wrathful Deities of the Bardo, the successful mantrin will get something like 108 because the Vidyadharas arise as Sages.

I am not exactly sure what this road of Gandharvas-->Pisacis-->Gauris may be saying, except the Gauris are the inner senses achieved from Yoga, in the Wrathful aspect such as animal-headed Tramen (i. e. Promoha, etc.).

Gandharva is an inherent energy which may be well disorganized, and Pisaci is, from what I can tell, an axis or fulcrum between extremes of destruction and preservation, mostly due to self-generated causes.

It is generally translated as the Devil, while it is the Rakshasas such as Ekajati and Sri that are called more as Demons and are not quite as powerful or dangerous as Pisaci, the most nefarious of all.

Because that class is tied to the Four Kings, who, in human terms, rank as the most nefarious, that part is easy to see.

Now a strange thing we saw was Maha Rakta Ganapati under Ratnasambhava.

This may make sense, if, according to Circle of Bliss:

Vighnantaka, Vighnåntaka. “Slayer of Obstacles.” One of the Ten Great Wrathful Ones
(Dasha Mahakrodha); also known as Amritakundalin; an epithet of Ganesha

and, it is correct that like Khandaroha, Amritakundalin is the main male Obstacle Remover in almost all of the Chakrasamvara rites, but, in his own name, he is part of the mostly missing or unpublished sole Jewel Family tantra, the Vajramrita.

Midway down part five of Rinchen Terdzo (http://chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Rinchen_Terdz%C3%B6_(5)), for example, it teaches this Amritakundalin function prior to a batch of initiations prior to Agni.

It would be hard to dispute that lurking throughout the majority of the advanced Tibetan rites is a form of Agni Homa that begins with Ganesh.

In Vajramrita Tantra, the main deities all have their Utpatti Krama or Generation Stage, and produce a host of Wisdoms, which we are not given the original term for. The Krama of Amritakundalin gives for example:

The text continues with the list of the eight Wisdoms (and their description):

Amṛtā,
Amṛtavajrā,
Amṛtā,
Amṛtalocanā,
Aprameyā,
Surūpā,
Vāruṇā,
Sukhasādhanī.

The last verses explain the extraction of the mantra “oṃ amṛtakuṇḍali mā maṃ svāhā”.

I do not know if they explain it as extracted from Matangi, it is more likely from Mrtyu or Death which Amrita is the negation of.

He is one of those that is not an extreme interpretation of krsna, since he is black like the newly-split antimony. He tramples the Great Obstacles.

And if I am not mistaken, this is a case where the final "a" on most of the names is feminized and they are devis, which would mean Amrta Locana = Prasanna Tara and Varuna = Varuni.

When he is compared to antimony, it immediately called to mind HPB's Blue Lotus about Varuni, where "originally heat" and then wine sounds to me like what the alchemists called Watery Fire, which was the quintessence of the Twelve Zodiacal, Seven Planetary, and Four Form Elements. Isaac Newton said this was variously called Isis, Juno, or Ceres, and personally referred to it as quintessence of chaos element, i. e. Mundus. He said it was represented by antimony or Magnesia Gebri. Magnesia is not a particular element, but all of them. "It is fiery, aery, earthy, watery. It is heat and dryness, humidity and cold. It is watery fire and fiery water. It is a corporeal spirit and a spiritual body. It is the condensed spirit of the world."

This, from below, links earth with heaven, as the heavenly quintessence links from above. He noted that the symbol for antimony was based on the orb held by Kings, symbol of a redeemed earth, a sphere surmounted by a cross. Only antimony is "the lawful son of the sun and the true sun of nature".

In the Three Families of Kriya, Vajra Family Mother is called Vajra Jitana (Curtains) and the Wrathful deity is Amritakundalin.

Humkara parallels him in Varamrita Tantra.

In one version of the Gatekeepers of the Heart, we get:

Achala-Ankusha, Yamantaka-Pasha, Hayagriva-Shrinkhala, and Amritakundali-Ghanta.

Followed by:

Ksa appears, showing all the former arise from the disposition of Samantabhadra. At the end of the Peaceful Deities, Ksa is Samantabhadra who then is followed by the Sages, Vidyadharas, or Nirmanakaya, in other words the secret assembly of the Throat produced by vajra methods which is non-operational in the ordinary person,


Sages appear, with the syllable of Amritakundalin. After Ksa, the Sages represent the descending Six Realms, so this is I for Sakra—deva realm, then a similar I is Vemacitra, U is Sakyamuni, a different U is Sthirasimha, E is Jvalamukha, and then Ai is Yama in hell. These syllables release karuna [Avalokiteshvara] or compassion, gateway to the voice of Brahma [Vach Devi].

Finally Heruka and the syllable Om appear, which is the basis for the Wrathful Deities. The final gatekeeper is O for wrathful Amritakundalin. This destroys conceptual elaborations of body, speech, and mind. Then Aum, destruction of all, releases the Wrathful Deities. Au is the syllable through which the incandescence of the Peaceful Deities manifests as the wrathfuls. It is therefor the destruction of subject—object. Made into chantable form, Aum, it becomes Heruka, endowed with the five pristine cognitions. The wrathfuls' nature is taming, training, disciplining arrogant beings. They are frequently referred to as “ground”. These as well as the sages are spontaneously self-existent in all world systems.

The wrathfuls are the direct radiation from the peaceful deities of the heart into the head center.

The cloud mass of letters actually abides primordially as the essential nature of Buddha body and pristine cognition, without conjunction or disjunction.

Amritakundalin is not remotely obscure in Buddhism, he is on this ancient 1100s Kagyu Gaganaraja Avalokiteshvara (Namkha Gyalpo), at his feet with Hayagriva:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/1/0/1/101329.jpg





He is 491 in Tibetan deities, which says that he is crowned with the Vajramrita Tantra, and that he is trampling Ganapati. "With consort" see 214, which is a Guhyasamaja version where he is called Vignantaka and his consort is not named but she tramples Ganapati. 336 is a four arm red Ganapati that will come to you (Go Lotsawa's equivalent is white). It does not have the first Blue Ganapati as in Rinjung Gyatsa, but the Green Tara and her dharani are Nyan's Six Limb Tara, i. e. Sadanga Yoga, who is an Amoghasiddhi goddess. She invites Venerable Tara from Potala. In my view, Green and White Tara continue to appear near some of the most advanced mandalas, since white is the primordial color and green is the most compound or most manifest, and that type of reversal that melts ordinary color into occult color dissolves green into blue, yellow, and white. Some Chakrasamvara practitioners have reported a "green--white flash" which breaks open a dakini dance or shift in many colors in a revolving wheel.

There is evidently also a Vajra Maha Amrita Kundalin Buddhia Usnisa Sutra.

There is a similar Vighnantaka All-purpose mantra used for example by Vasudhara or Dharmadhatu Vagisvara Manjughosha.

Several of the mantras have a destructive tone towards Ganapati. I tend to rake "trampling" as meaning "transcended", it would be difficult to take it as meaning destroy all Ganapati when he is revered by name on the other page. Again it sounds like a bit of an axis whether he *is* obstacles or removes them.

The fourth day after the new moon is observed as Vinayaki Chaturthi – the day dedicated to Lord Ganesha in his feminine aspect. She is said to be the least-represented and possibly only orally transmitted. She attaches to all the related names (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinayaki) according to Wiki, and there is debate as to whether this is one or more entities that all happen to have elephant's heads. She is often pot-bellied or Lambodara, standing on a donkey:

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b7b8c44e7494002028d8939/1585377829640-OQXUCBFH8VXE7R4XDKGU/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kJvH5GWP1lgyeN_gDD4EEI97gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLf rh8O1z5QPOohDIaIeljMHgDF5CVlOqpeNLcJ80NK65_fV7S1UVNJR-mHQBK01Pf7rqwIMm_LIzjdc9PifbMe_VBvMJ5uBtPE4gjuCSpiAC-LPEp6Lg/IMG_1230.jpg?format=1000w



Although they have some artificats, and scant evidence and next to nothing of a practice on her, they are willing to admit there is a Buddhist Ganapati Hrdaya (https://vedicgoddess.weebly.com/goddess-vidya-blog/vinakyaki-or-ganeshani-devi-by-yogi-ananda-saraswathi) dharani goddess who is the daughter of Isana and is the siddhi of Vinayaka.

That would be my inclination, the Ganapati Hrdaya will take whatever we put into it. Perhaps that should be Matangi. Nothing specifically says that it is, except for the information's own definitions when compared together, and the absence of competing ideas.

In many systems, Smoky Ganesh is the future end of Kali Yug like Kalki or Kalachakra, however:

Vakratunda, "the Lord with the curved trunk". He is represented seated on a lion. He came to struggle against the devil Matsara, who is the symbol of jealousy.

Ekadanta, "the Lord who has only one tusk". exterminated Mada, the demon of drunkeness.

Mahodara, "the Lord who has a big belly", gives battle to Moha, the demon of illusion.

Gajânana, "the Lord with an elephant face", put Lobha, the demon of greed, to death .

Lambodara, "the Lord with a protuberant belly", masters Krodha, the demon of anger.

Vikata, "the misshapen", subdued Kama, the demon of desire

Ekadanta, Mahodara, Gajanana, Lambodara and Vikata are represented mounted on a rat.

Under the form of Vighnaraja, "the Lord King of obstacles", lying on Shasha, the Snake of Eternity, Ganesh destroyed Mama, the demon of ego.

Finally, the last Ganesh incarnation is Dhumravarna, "the Lord with a tawny color", riding a mouse, who got victory over Ahamkara, the demon of self-infatuation.

Smoke is the transition from Form to Formless. Lambodara (https://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/ganesh-names) is liberation by sound of a drum, same as in Buddhism with Tara and Amoghasiddhi, who are the ones that tend to produce smoky colors.

There is a tradition of pairing different Ganapatis with Mahavidyas (https://animeshnagarblog.wordpress.com/2014/08/27/dhumra-ganapati-ganapati-of-dhumavati-lore/). It is also said that Smoky Ganesh is the only one who can withstand Dhumavati's (https://sanathanadharmasblog.tumblr.com/post/176579416270/when-rishi-dadhichi-died-by-serving-gods-to) onslaught.

He is almost too versatile. I am pretty sure that if the right conditions are set with Matangi, then, any Ganapati that is needed will be glad to appear. I suppose he deserves his own kind of samaya. It sounds a lot like he clears the area, and she sets up the good new stuff. Ganapati Hrdaya does not really have an individual name that I know of, it is like the Hindu "definition".

In it, he is Rudra Vacana, and appears to use several of his forms:

om gaṁgaṇapataye svāhā || om gaṇādhipataye svahā || om gaṇeśvarāya svāhā || om gaṇapati pūjināya svāhā || om āmodāya svāhā || om pramodāyetvāya svāhā || om he lambāya svāhā || om ṛdidāya svāhā || om siddhīdāyasvāhā || om piṅgarākṣāya svāhā || om dhrumokṣāya svāhā om ekadantāya svāhā ||

He seems to have a Ksa syllable in a Kumbha related to his associates:

kṣakumbhāṇurākṣasāḥ || gandharvvāḥ kinnarābhutāḥ piśācā vinghakārakāḥ |

Ksa and Mam seem to increase the Three Jewels:

kṣamaṁkarī jayīkāntī triratna guṇavarddhaṇī ||

It is rather large and I cannot get anything from most of it. At least, with his forms, we can sense it intends Lambodara, and the Rddhi and Siddhi would generally represent the two kinds of consort. Since she is so slippery, the best I can come up with is that she is "usually" Matangi--Buddhi, whereas Siddhi would be some hard-to-attain ultimate condition.

I am not aware if any sadhana uses anything close to a wedding ceremony, which is an allusion on my part to the fact it is supposed to be an occult marriage of the practitioner. The closest thing I have seen to that is Kurmapadi Vairocani. You are supposed to mimic her naked on a hilltop and court her.



I have a note from a Gerd Mavissen paper which says he found a Needle Marici whose thread comes from a curtain that is unraveling. To him it appears that Marici replaced the older Aparajita.

[Old Student]

Ok, yes, that is another way to think about it, sometimes you have to revert an "i" ending back to masculine to see something like "elephant".

I only saw Pukkasi as "indigo" for quite a while but, it turns out she inhabits a charnel ground in Nepal and is either at par with or is Hariti or Sitala. The name is very rare in the sadhanas, but is in Lotus Sutra.

I couldn't get that with my dictionary, which is neither here nor there, but on some more searches, one definition, which is probably more of a specific usage, for the phrase, "chandala pukkasa" is a dwarf or hunchback who works in charnel grounds and is specifically symbolic of a life of pain and suffering to which a person, a brahmin specifically, may be reborn for indulging in greed and arrogance.


agane gane gauri gandhari chandali matangi janguly vrusani agashti

another version:

Agane gane gauri gandhari candali matangi [pukkashi] samkule vrusali sisi [svaha].

Either one carries the meaning of causing King Dhritarashtra and the Gandharvas to protect a student of Lotus Sutra.

Odd that they have the same meaning, one seems to reference the scrotum and powers therein, the other menstrual blood or the metal lead. Perhaps they weren't meant to substitute for each other but maybe be a couplet?



[...]
It is generally translated as the Devil, while it is the Rakshasas such as Ekajati and Sri that are called more as Demons and are not quite as powerful or dangerous as Pisaci, the most nefarious of all.

Because that class is tied to the Four Kings, who, in human terms, rank as the most nefarious, that part is easy to see.

Question: In the Avatamsaka Sutra, they describe one stage of becoming a Buddha as passing through the place or land or ground of the "Four Demons". Thomas Cleary translates everything (even calling bodhisattvas 'enlightening beings' a literal translation) so I have no idea what he's talking about here, or what gender the demons are at this point. Any possible relation?


The last verses explain the extraction of the mantra “oṃ amṛtakuṇḍali mā maṃ svāhā”.

I do not know if they explain it as extracted from Matangi, it is more likely from Mrtyu or Death which Amrita is the negation of.

He is one of those that is not an extreme interpretation of krsna, since he is black like the newly-split antimony. He tramples the Great Obstacles.

And if I am not mistaken, this is a case where the final "a" on most of the names is feminized and they are devis, which would mean Amrta Locana = Prasanna Tara and Varuna = Varuni.

When he is compared to antimony, it immediately called to mind HPB's Blue Lotus about Varuni, where "originally heat" and then wine sounds to me like what the alchemists called Watery Fire, which was the quintessence of the Twelve Zodiacal, Seven Planetary, and Four Form Elements. Isaac Newton said this was variously called Isis, Juno, or Ceres, and personally referred to it as quintessence of chaos element, i. e. Mundus. He said it was represented by antimony or Magnesia Gebri. Magnesia is not a particular element, but all of them. "It is fiery, aery, earthy, watery. It is heat and dryness, humidity and cold. It is watery fire and fiery water. It is a corporeal spirit and a spiritual body. It is the condensed spirit of the world."

This, from below, links earth with heaven, as the heavenly quintessence links from above. He noted that the symbol for antimony was based on the orb held by Kings, symbol of a redeemed earth, a sphere surmounted by a cross. Only antimony is "the lawful son of the sun and the true sun of nature".


Several thoughts on this:

1) You mention feminizing of the names, and lower down describe a ritual on the 4th day of the new moon to a female Ganesh. Is it possible that mantra to Amritakundalin/Amrita-Kundali is also feminized? It says "amrita kundali maa", which sure sounds like it.
2) This is very interesting all the attention given to antimony, presumably because it is a metal and it is black, both in East and West. Or maybe because reversed, antimony <--> antinomy it becomes the ultimate paradox. The classic example of the antinomy is, "Epimenides the Cretan said, 'All Cretans are liars.'" In math, it's written, "A = {X|X∉X}", a notation ascribed to Bertrand Russell (his version of the antinomy is called Russell's Paradox and involves a barber). I'm mentioning this because of Newton's equation with a planet that is the ultimate chaos.
3) Watery fire and fiery water. If one deliberately misreads Vajrapani's name, one can think it means lightning-water. Given the depth to which everyone in mantrayana/vajrayana goes with sounds and words, I'm sure that escaped no one.


I have a note from a Gerd Mavissen paper which says he found a Needle Marici whose thread comes from a curtain that is unraveling. To him it appears that Marici replaced the older Aparajita.

This is interesting. I wonder what curtain it is?

The funerary tenor of my shaking instruction is continuing, the power pose that represents it is an insect (I called it a cicada in the notes, but that could be not correct) that is in its center a flayed corpse that is in its center a "cauldron of birth" which itself is shaped like a vulva. Obviously I am deep inside myself when this occurs, actually usually "fractured" in that I am in multiple views of myself, but it doesn't have a self, its power is the "charnel part" of whoever called it up, including if I did. The liquid previously at my lips has been encountered once in this charnel stuff, as the liquid in a kapala that I was drinking from at one point. So maybe it isn't 'nectar', unless my concept of nectar is not correct.

[shaberon]

one definition, which is probably more of a specific usage, for the phrase, "chandala pukkasa" is a dwarf or hunchback who works in charnel grounds and is specifically symbolic of a life of pain and suffering to which a person, a brahmin specifically, may be reborn for indulging in greed and arrogance.

Interesting. There is specifically one Hunchback goddess, which is Kubjika. Formerly secret and very fascinating.

From what I recall, the individual Pukkasi is strictly local to Nepal. So she may perhaps only be meaningful in that region, whereas Janguli can claim modestly more reknown.


Perhaps they weren't meant to substitute for each other but maybe be a couplet?

Maybe, but, the more I look at this, I think a lot of it is scribal/location/tradition. For instance, the Ganapati Hrdaya Sutra given to Kublai Khan (https://buddhaweekly.com/buddhist-ganesha-popular-ganapatis-many-forms-include-enlightened-emanation-avalokiteshvara-worldly-protector-bodhisattva-wrathful-tantric-deity-many/) is miniscule and lists far fewer murtis of Ganapati than the Nepalese archive. The view at that site, Hindu or Buddhist, seems to be there are so many Ganapatis you can't go wrong. I'm guessing there are two or more scribal traditions of Lotus Sutra. One can find this kind of discrepancy in very many works. Most of the newer papers by Mavissen or Gudrun Buhnemann, etc., are "composites" usually based on a preferred version with various supplements. They do tons of "Em." or emendation or what they think is a spelling or grammar correction.

But even the magazine article that covers many Ganeshas falls flat on mentioning Amritakundalin.

Cleary and other English-biased translations tend to make "sifting" considerably more difficult. Four Demons could alternately be the Four Kings, or the Four Maras. It doesn't seem to mean anything as it stands. Four Dakinis does, Three Pisacis does, but if I wrenched at that strictly interpretively, I would get Four Rakshasas, which isn't anything I am aware of.



You mention feminizing of the names, and lower down describe a ritual on the 4th day of the new moon to a female Ganesh. Is it possible that mantra to Amritakundalin/Amrita-Kundali is also feminized? It says "amrita kundali maa", which sure sounds like it.


I wish we could get the Vajramrita. "Ma Mam" is perhaps a weird way of doubling a seed-syllable. When they talk about mantra extraction, it is usually in a code that says things like "and the fourth of the fifteenth", and so it probably followed something very bland like this. However my guess is that Maa is almost exclusively Hindu, and, by utterly wiping or de-Hinduizing Ganesh's name, nothing like that would come through. We see spellings like Viswa Mata and Graha Matrika, and I am just not familiar with those things being "abbreviated".

If he is used in Guhyasamaja, his tantric practice is far older than Mudgala Purana. However, the oral traditions that became this purana are of untold antiquity.

Seeing that is the fourth, so far it appears day three = Matangi, day four = "Ganapati Shakti", day five = Manasa. Ganapati and at least Matangi are very open, forgiving of mistakes; devis share the sensuality of Ganapati, but he is the only one described as comfortable with Insults. I don't think it suggests to do that in the sadhana, but, when he removes an obstacle, I guess he does not flinch no matter what is said.

I have just learned that I have to move Ganesh, his back goes towards the outside of the house, preferably in the east or northeast, and not beside or through the wall of a washroom.

Smoky Ganesh, and his Two Wives mode, does seem to give the better part of his story, although they do not directly appear in Buddhism.

Lakshmi Ganapati is a standard form:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Lakshmi_gaNapati.JPG



He is Gauravarnah, "white or fair", although it could still be orange, we can see that all the red, blue, etc. Ganapatis are drawn white on the Thirty-two forms Wiki page. It is based on Mudgala Purana, a late composite work, and the second after Ganapati Purana to be based on the deity and being the main tenets of the Ganapatya sect. An article on the Mudgala (https://ganeshaexperience.wordpress.com/tag/mudgala-purana/) states that Ganesha is Gana Isha, pretty close to the same as Gana Pati. But even he has variations (https://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/paintings/lakshmi-ganapati-HL63/), the consorts may have white lotuses, or:

https://cdn.exoticindia.com/hindu/hl63.jpg





His personal items should include a water vessel (https://www.lotussculpture.com/blog/tag/lakshmi-ganapati/).

White four arm Radish and Sweets Ganesh, and the large Maha Rakta Ganapati, are in the back half of Sadhanamala.

For the white Ganapati form, in the Mandala of Dharmadhatuvagisvara his description is as follows :

Musake Ganapatih sitah karivaktrah sarpayajnopaviti caturbhujah savyabhyam trisulaladdukau vamabhyam parasumulake dadhanah.

"Ganapati rides on a Mouse and is white in colour. He has an elephant face and a snake forms his sacred thread. He is four-armed. In the two right hands he carries the' Trisula and the Ladduka (sweet balls), and in the two left the Parasu (axe) and the Mulaka (radish).

In the Bhutadamara Mandala, he is given four hands carrying the Mulaka and the Parasu in the two right, and the Trisula and the Kapala in the two left."

This is not very surprising since both of these mandalas import flocks of Hindu deities, but, it means he at least is involved. However, Slapping Aparajita has as one of her epithets, "She who tramples on Ganesh".



Gaṇapatihṛdayā is described in the Dharmakośasaṃgraha of Amritananda as follows:

“Gaṇapatihṛdayā is one-faced, two-armed, exhibits in her two hands the varada and abhaya poses, and shows the dancing attitude”.

https://www.wisdomlib.org/uploads/files/fig229-Ganapatihridaya.jpg



"Dance" on these deities is usually Nrrtya. Since this goddess is a Dharani, chances are that means the simple mode is only one form of her. Vinayaki is simple like this. This name is relatively rare but is in the Practice of Mahavidya chapter of Skanda Purana (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/the-skanda-purana/d/doc366049.html) so look closely since here is the Mars look at Ganapati Hrdaya:

O Brahmāṇī, O Māheśvarī, O Vārāhī, O Vināyakī, O Aindrī, O Āgneyī, O Cāmuṇḍā, O Vāruṇī

It is a fairly large pile of invocations, but, that appears somewhat on the unique side. It has something to do about Halahala Shiva and the Vinayaki is from epithets of his counterpart:

O Umā, O Dhruvā (‘fixed one’), O Arundhatī, O Sāvitrī, O Gāyatrī, O Jātavedasī, O Mānastokā

It elusively said Vairocani (Jatavedasi). Uma is Pole Star--Arundhati (Tara)--Secret Sun--Visible Sun, and so on.

O Gaurī, O Gāndhārī, O Mātaṅgī
O Kirātī, O Mātaṅgī,

What is that doing there??





Nothing seems to tell us who Ganapati Hrdaya is, but it is hard not to conclude an elephant-faced Matangi.


Sumukhi (https://www.indiadivine.org/content/topic/1015751-sumukhi-devi/) is a red-robed and red-paste-coated Matangi who relates at least a little bit to blood.

Yet it is also said that Sumukhi (https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2005/04/07/the-secret-of-sumukhi/) is the consort of Mars and that she is Mayuri.

She has an unusual Yantra:

https://images1.novica.net/pictures/15/p195401_2a_400.jpg


Dr. Sneh Gangal practices the millenary and spiritual art of painting a yantra in honor of Sumukhi. Worshipped for worldly pleasure, Sumukhi is one of the forms in which the Hindu goddess Kali may present herself. "To attract women and destroy enemies, one should recite her mantra on this yantra," explains Dr. Gangal, who paints the yantra with natural stone colors on ivory paper.

That may be at face value over at the Mandir, but esoterically we would say "women" are dakinis and the other classes.

Sumukhi possibly considers errors (https://spontaneouslykaula.blogspot.com/2017/08/sumukhi-devi.html) as a type of Ucchista offering. She is accepted as tantric Ganesha (https://sreenivasaraos.com/tag/matangi-and-kamala/).

18th cent. Kalighat:

http://www.indianminiaturepaintings.co.uk/Kalighat_Matangi_31110_500h.jpg



The consort of Lord Ucchiṣṭa Gaṇapati is Hastipiśāci alias Ucchiṣṭa Caṇḍālinī, also called as Sumukhi, the pleasing one--from a post on the topic that without Sumukhi Armor (https://www.manblunder.com/articlesview/sumukhi-athava-matangi-kavacam), her mantra does nothing. What kind of Indian speaking anybody would "make up" a name like Hastipisaci? It was a description of Ganapati's hand, but that is a personal name? Are they trying to say Hastini Pisaci?

The Impure substances may be called nectar, the urine and dog meat and so forth. I do not think blood is; it is simply the wisdom of transcendental knowledge as obtained from mundane experience. Both the Peacock and Serpent hold the power to transmute poison into nectar.

The main teaching of nectar is almost certainly with Amritakundalin in the Vajramrita Tantra. It is the Jewel Family tantra, which means Ganapati must be in cahoots with Vajra Surya, although Amritakundalin, and I think all of the deities are really in Akshobya--Vajra Family, and this tantra as a whole is protected by Ekajati. If I had a closer feeling to her I would ask her. I can tell she is there but not especially personal to me at this point.

Ma--Mam Amritakundalin is not too far from Mam--Varuni, who seems to be in his retinue. I guess it is really spelled Varunaa there? I don't see why it would be male Varuna; I don't see him written with the accent mark.

Ganapati dharanis will present the pattern Ga Gana, which could make one word, Gagana, Sky, similarly to how Varuni is never Vam--Vari--Water, because she adds Sky Element.

[Old Student]

From the text at the link for "tantric Ganesha":


52.2. The central message of this myth is to set free the Tantric devotee from the strangling obsession with ‘purity’ which can be dangerous and destructive. Ucchishta Matangini as the embodiment of all that is impure and polluted is the goddess who helps in coming to terms with, and transcends the apparent dualities in the existence. She, in her own manner, emphasizes the importance of inner purity over external cleanliness. Matangi is therefore a great teacher; and powerful and liberating goddess.


54.1. But, basically, Matangi as Mahavidya severs attachment to the limited understanding of the world in terms of ‘pure’ or ‘impure’. She challenges the normally accepted concepts and values in an established social order. She brings into question the very notions of beauty, goodness, honour, respect, decency, cleanliness and physical comfort etc. She instils in the heart of the Sadhaka the faith that all existence is pervaded by the goddess and there is nothing that is outside the goddess; She pervades all; and within her there are no distinctions of ‘pure’ or ‘impure’. She guides the Sadhaka to transcend the artificial – manmade’ demarcations of beauty-ugliness, cleanliness – polluted or pure -profane etc. Her message forms the very core of the Tantra ideology.

This is what I was trying to say about the fact that all these related names -- ucchista, chandali, matangi, etc. are attributes or deities, yes, but they are also part of a description of the very real (to this day) women who relinquish society to practice tantra in the charnel grounds or jungle or impure places. They create a profound shakti tradition by moving themselves beyond the constraints of society, so they are personified in the deities by deities that grant siddhis for doing the same. That's why I thought at least some of it looks like Machig Labdron's Chod.

[shaberon]

This is what I was trying to say about the fact that all these related names -- ucchista, chandali, matangi, etc. are attributes or deities, yes, but they are also part of a description of the very real (to this day) women who relinquish society to practice tantra in the charnel grounds or jungle or impure places. They create a profound shakti tradition by moving themselves beyond the constraints of society, so they are personified in the deities by deities that grant siddhis for doing the same. That's why I thought at least some of it looks like Machig Labdron's Chod.

Yes, these are among the "women" Ganapati should attract.

The power that a usually male Guru is supposed to transmit to his disciple is often called Shaktipat. That is what is within the Parampara or Chain of Transmissions. This, and, certainly hordes of female practitioners are very real, and this is why I think the Seven Cities of India is a major thing.

It is saying that India has the seven chakras, however, the question was raised to Subba Row about taking the practice Death at Kashi literally. And so if like the Horse Head rite, it is symbolic and inner, then that is because it is talking about Prajna of the Heart, and so Kashi is not really the Ajna, it is the Heart. When I took a crack at this, I came up with Mathura as the solar plexus. That was how I found out that Tara's name on a sign there is what subdued the mischievous Gandharva. This story was perhaps the origin of the phrase Ganesvara Vinayaka.

And so when you put together that vital body, with the Shakti Pithas, charnel grounds, rivers, and so on, combined with the fact that the culture is based on pilgrimage, then it is simultaneously true that most of those sacred spots have one or two people who are positioned there somewhat permanently, whereas there are many more who wander, of a highly spiritually realized nature. It is like a guardianship set in place. You have probably seen stories of lone monks inhabiting ruins.

Skanda Purana instead of Hayagriva uses the name Hayasira, i. e., Horse Head.

I am not seeing Sumukhi's picture come up so it is worth looking at the Kalighat collection (http://www.indianminiaturepaintings.co.uk/Kalighat_collection_31110.html?LMCL=s_GRX9&LMCL=UmkLCe) where she is listed as Matangi. This is a classy set beautiful with Annapurna and even Manasa and a Savitri who resembles the comment about dawn wishing her dead followers were alive.

When we look at the real occult Ganesh, according to HPB, in Egypt, he is Thoth (Sirius) and Anubis (Sirius)--Ring-pass-not.


Marut Gana is pretty close to The Secret Doctrine, from a relatively recent paper that goes on to Mahamrtyunjaya Mantra (https://issuu.com/goenka.parul/docs/marut-gana.):

“All objects are interrelated to the indestructible Indra[the lord of Vidhyuta (electro- magneto dynamics)] in the form of Surya / sun. All Pranies/beings of all the Lokas themselves with him (Surya in Antariksh because He as Vishwakarma created every thing while standing MARUTS IN MANDALA 1: --- PRIMORDIAL GALAXIES AND RIVERS OF PLASMA AT CREATION AHI, SHUSHNA AND PANI."

Ahi = Naga.

Marutganas are Rudras who become attendants or servants to Indra.

So the female Vajraraudris are likely this.

Rudra Krama and Mahabala Krama are methods of Ganapati.

Valmiki was a Kirat, the Adi Kavya or Primordial Poet, and the
Marut Ganas (https://sanskritdocuments.org/sites/valmikiramayan/baala/sarga47/bala_47_prose.htm) in Valmiki Ramayana go this way:

According to mythology there are seven ethereal places in cosmos on which the galaxies and planets are dependent. According to Vishnu Puraana: aavaha pravahava caiva samvahaH ca udvaH ca tathaa | vihaa aakhyaH praivaahaH paraavaha iti kramaat || gaganaH sparshanaH vaayu anilaH ca tathaa aparaH | praaNaH praaNeshvaraH jiiva iti ete sapta maarutaaH || They are: aavaha the air called by this name will be pervading in clouds, thunderbolts, rain, meteors; pravaha air in solar orbit; samhava in lunar orbit; udvaha in galaxies; vivaha in planetary spheres; parivaha in the Seven-Sages sphere; varaavaha in north polar regions. These are otherwise called by names gagana, sparshana, vaayu, anila, praaNa, praaNeshvara, jiiva. Each of the Marut god has a batch of seven Marut-s, thus they are forty-nine entities, in total.

" 'Oh, son Indra, let these seven become the presiding deities of Cosmic Airy Divisions and let my sons move in heaven with heavenly forms... One from the seven may move in Brahma's abode, like that another in the heaven of Indra, and even the third one, let him become a greatly celebrated one and be reputed as Divine Wind, and he may circulate in entire Universe...Oh, Chief of Gods, Indra, indeed, let four of my sons truly permeate in four directions in time, let safety betide you, verily at your command...


It pretty clearly makes a Triangle and a Square.

Marutganas are Vinayaka (https://books.google.com/books?id=fdEkDwAAQBAJ&lpg=PT143&ots=aEqn5niWjt&dq=marutgana%20ganapati&pg=PT143#v=onepage&q=marutgana%20ganapati&f=false), who are related to Ganapati, who is Brahmanaspati, Bhrihaspati--Jupiter, and Vachaspati.

Jupiter is the Poet, which is why this is consistent with the development of shakti of Kavya.

From an Adwaita (https://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2011-March/026652.html) post:

brahmaNAM pati iti brahmaNaspatiH is the vyutpatti. Here, brahma is veda / vAk. brahmaNaspati is the pati (Lord) of veda vAngmaya in the form of chandas. And thus He is also called “kavInAM kaviH”. In brahmaNaspati sUkta, He is extolled as “jyEShTharAjaH”. The term “Brihaspati” is also used for brahmaNaspati because “brihati pati iti brihaspati” and brihati also means vAk. In Indra Sukta, Indra is also extolled as “jyEShTharAjaH”.

Now, agni manifest itself in 3 folds in prithi (bhUh); antarikSha (bhuvaH) and akAsa (suvaH). The Agni in Antariksha is vydutAgni. This is presided by Indra who holds vajra (thunderbolt) in His hands. This aindrAgni tattva (Indra+Agni swarupa) controls marut & vAyu tattvas. These 2 give rise “marut gaNAs” & “vishvEdevatas”. As “gaNa” means cluster, “marut-gaNAs” are “Cluster of Devatas” who are controlled by Indra. Since, Indra presides over “marut-gaNAs”, He is called “gaNa-pati” in other words “marut-gaNa-pati”.

This Indra combining with vAyu tattvas in the antarikSha, splits itself into 11 tattvas and spreads itself in 11 directions (10 directions + 1 at the centre). They become 11 rudrAs (ekAdasa rudrAs).

Now, Agama envisages such an Indra tattva which is non-different from brahmaNaspati to be having of the form of gaja-mukha. The beauty of the tantra lies in “encrypting” the code from “gaja” to “jaga”. If we are to take gaja & jaga to be of similar by jumbling the words, then it is “jaga-mukha”. It’s meaning is that whose face is of Jagat ie., He is Jagat-swarupa. Now, we know that entire Jagat is the by-product of the form of nAda (primordial sound) which is the gross manifestation of parA nAda. The parA nAda originating in mUlAdhAra chakra assumes pashyanti; pashyanti nAda assumes the form of madhyamA; madhyama assumes the form of vaikhari. This vaikhari nAda assumes the form of mAtrika varna mAla with 16 vowels & 34 consonants which is nothing but Creation.

Agama defines this cluster of nAda avasthAs ie., parA, pashyanti, madhyama, vaikhari to be the gaNAs. The tattva that controls these 4 nAda avasthAs at mUlAdhAra chakra is obviously called the “gaNa-pati”. Now, the entire veda sAstra be it, saMhita, brahmaNa or AraNyaka bhAga, it is nothing but cluster of mAtrika varNa mAla or vaikhari nAda. And hence, He is called brahmaNaspati / vAkpati / brihaspati / gaNa-pati...

Among the twin principle of Indra-Agni tattva, Agama recognizes Indra to be Ganapati Tattva and Agni to be Subramanya [Mars] Tattva. That is why, Subramanya is also called “agni-bhUH”. His vAhana is peacock which is called “shikhI” (shikhivAhaM shaDAnanaM..”). Another name for Agni is “shikhi”. Since, Subramanya presides over Agni tattva, He is visualized as alighted over the peacock.


I think it is mostly correct except one might say Indra is Ganapati from "his plane downwards". There is a spiritual or Noumenal Ganapati at least in Buddhism and his Lakshmi Ganesh form which transcends Kama Loka. It was the foetus in Diti's womb being sliced seven times seven times, which is equivalent to Akasha or the plane above Kama Loka. And so they actually are Rudras, although Indra is able to employ them for good or ill.

They are Air or Wind Elementals not as gas but as vital air.

Now we have also said Jupiter is not really even the Human Guru according to Tara and Lakshmi, she is.

Even he is transitional and perhaps is offered to the sun.

He is, however, the most sensitive and ethereal part related to life forces, which again is highly related to the sun. That is what this system is saying. The Mind is a Rider of one's own life force which is solar in origin.

The Akashic plane is that of Manas, which is supposed to marry the plane above itself, Buddhi.

We say that Manas is seated in the Heart, and its kernel will move on to another body after death.

If you looked at Indra in Antariksha which is the second plane, you would question the assertion about Kama Loka. What happens is this.

That version only names the first three worlds of seven from Savitri Gayatri.

The secret to expanding it to seven worlds is that the middle world remains the middle world, and the other two become upper and lower trinities, like a candelabra pattern.

This is the same pattern which underlies the formula in setting the pagan days of the week which are still in use world-wide, and, for what Buddhist tantra specifies about Dissolving the Voids into Primal Light and Emerging in Reverse Order:

((( ! )))

And then from our seven-fold view we would say Indra is in the middle plane which is Kama Loka, which itself is usually attached to the lower three which makes the Square of Fourfold Form.

It is the same when looking at the Buddhist Trailokya, which says Rupa, Arupa, and Kama. The Rupa is the lower trinity, Kama is really the middle or Mirror plane, and then there are three Arupa realms. Because Buddhism is really a practice, it is talking about the transmutation of Skandhas, and so the Arupa has to do with Voids in the Mental or Akashic plane, as a practice or experience. Then perhaps if you are able to view the Prabhasvara or Absolute Object it may mean the Buddhic plane.

This is a first marriage which is to Matangi.

I would say the courtship is maybe not that hard, but, the full deal is astronomical.

My guess is it would span the Reversible Stages of the Path, i. e., the first Seven Bhumis.

To me, that is easy, because I can append Seven Bhumis on Janguli, and Janguli is Matangi. Because of this, it means Sumukhi and Vinayaki as well. Diverse operating environment.

Being that Ganapati is also a pre-eminent tantric Smoke deity, which has to do with Amoghasiddhi, Air, and Tara, this also works very easily. In Sadanga Yoga it is the Sixth Stage that of Samadhi. It is almost precisely the ability to attain Vajraraudris that would convert this into the real practical seven-fold system of Seven Syllable deity.

That is why in my opinion I would never pick up the available material on this and try to use it.

The Matangi and other resources available without it could take the remainder of a lifetime.

If done properly I am certain the door is open at Forest of Turquoise Leaves. It is like having a lifetime plan with something to do afterwards. I hope this makes the purpose of Mahattari Saptanuttara evident. Success in that rite obtains Sri or Lakshmi in a Green Tara appearance. She is Venus or the Human Guru who is even more important than Ganapati.

She is Vasumati Mahalakshmi, who unveils the entire Dharmadhatu Vagishvara mandala, because she and her series of Dharanis are the only unique thing in it. Almost everything else is a stock character, ingredients of the Dharmadhatu and Cosmos. It is like she is the commander of everything. Tantric Lakshmi or Kamala is bathed by Elephants such as Ganapati might provide.

I moved the Ganesh icon and I have never thought about using a male deity much, but, if he serves as a type of Avalokiteshvara, then I would be able to find a more personal connection to something I have mainly had to treat as a "holy name". And so in Kagyu we are saying it all the time and so I have the Bhava that would make it work. And then if he is the main, original root of Ten Wrathful Ones, it has a potential application anywhere.

To me, it has a very "can work with" feel, unlike an Ista Devata such as Janguli who can hold all the wisdom I can conceive of seeing these days, like "can never get enough of". What I would be doing is using Matangi in lieu of Janguli's six arm form. Or, more likely, a few Matangis along with Green Janguli. It seems like White Janguli may be designed as a Matangi Completion Stage.

Where one source maintains Red Matangi is Mayuri, it has seemed to me that Buddhism makes the case that Maha Mayuri of our dharani is not a type of default name-copied shakti of Mars but is more like Kumari which fans his heat. Mars is "potential or actual inner heat", as symbolized by charcoal--man in his grosser nature--or by glowing coal. This is what we think is related to Pandara or a white-robed one who becomes red by degrees of approach to her consort and the axis of Divine Desire versus ordinary desire.

Janguli is one of the few holders of a Peacock Plume which is as if to say she has a little Mayuri in her anyway.

The next-closest thing than Ganapati to the Marutgana is Garuda. That is why it is among the most beneficial creatures, it can do this and get a drop of Amrita.

If a person has mental problems or is insane, that is the Marutgana all screwed up driving it like a machine, what is left of the mind is tossed turbulently through a clash of winds. It can cause several kinds of illness which in Tibetan is called Lung which means wind disease of the heart which leads to total insanity or even death, so, the Lung Ta or Windhorse Ceremony is knocking this back into shape. If you look at all those prayer flags and then look at this Marutgana is a way to understand the compassionate wisdom which is protected in these lands.

Are Air Elementals dangerous? Yes, very! Worst ones!

But on the other hand, like the Pisaci, they could become the best ones. How would you ever come to know Bliss in your subtle body without taming some of them? Is not any kind of tantra some elaborated synthesis of them?

I could grab a pair of scissors and cut out my eyes, puncture my ear drums, cut off my tongue, and so forth, and that is not going to affect the Marutgana very much. One tiny little air bubble in the brain does. So will cadmium in your ulcers and other hazardous substances. A whole bunch of things will, and, we are training to prevent that. Ganapati is removing obstacles to the proper performance of this host.

[shaberon]

It is probably impossible to be exhaustively definitive of Ganapati, but, it is easy to be strongly suggestive of his most important characteristics that are informative towards Buddhist metaphysics and sadhanas.

According to Karnataka's Rich Heritage, Ganapati won his two wives by defeating his brother Skanda in a race. It was apparently a race around all the worlds, and Ganapati simply circumambulated his parents and declared it to be equal.

Ok, one might not dispute that Ganapati is first/fastest, since he is first in almost any sadhana that is not even about him. He also has a fat form, which says:

Aum Lambodaraya Namah This mantra means that all the celestial bodies are within an individual. Aum represents the sound of creation and the entire universe is comprised inside it.

Aside from largeness, he also is part of Brihaspati--Jupiter; Pratyangira is from the Jupiter line--and although Manjushri "is" Mars, he is Jupiter as well.

We have observed that in classifications of anything more than six Families, the symbolism gets a little murky. The history of Matrikas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrikas#Yoginis) is consistent up to six; the seventh is often Chamunda--Charchika or Chandi, the eighth may be Pratyangira or Mahalakshmi, and the ninth is Vinayaki. When Vinayaki is added, Narasimhi--Pratyangira is removed. So they are perhaps close to the same if both are Jupiter emanations.

There is only one classification of nine Matrikas, which is Devi Mahatmya. But Nepal also has a type of Buddhist nine families.

Since the Buddha Families are the Winds, as deities they are like the Noumenal aspect of Marutganas. That is why these are almost the same subject.

Nepal's Nine Buddha Families includes Pratyangira, but not Vinayaki. In Buddhism, Pratyangira is a special form of Parasol; so is Aparajita. There is probably nothing that will ever say Pratyangira "is" Vinayaki, since they have different backgrounds and different heads. But they are both a part of Jupiter shakti, and then if both are a form of Parasol, they are not the ultimate one.

Jupiter is Rta, which is natural law, which is not Dharma, which is personal and social law.

That is why I think it would be insane to suggest we are "destroying" Jupiter by perhaps merely knocking him off a too-tall soapbox. If anything, we are destroying his exoteric--ritualized--institutional dominance, like saying a Tirtha is limited to the most outer ritualistic forms of tantra without being able to really "get it".


It is perhaps rather strange that Manjushri functions as two planets originally represented by occult prodigal brothers, but, it appears to follow the same pattern as just described.


A brief Namasangiti (https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/nastika-notes-manjushri-and-the-nama-samgiti/) article that chronicles Manjushri's "Hindu absorptions" says that originally he was like a Gandharva Manjughosha, and his second role was then Brihaspati as a tenth-stage Bodhisattva. Thirdly, in Manjushri Mulakalpa, he absorbs Mars to perform Buddha deeds in the world, and finally in Namasangiti he functions as Adi Buddha.

From an unspecified commentary, it mentions that Pratyangira will protect reciters of Namasangiti:

sarva-vighna-vinAyaka-mArAri-mahApratya~NgirA-mahAparAjitA sa-rAtriM-divaM pratikShaNaM sarveryApatheShu rakShAvaraNa-guptiM kariShyanti |


In a brief Manjushri Name Song (http://www.dsbcproject.org/canon-text/content/160/853), his Rsi or Sage nature is related to Vinayaka, then as Soma he is related to Brihaspati, and then as Naga Raja Ananta, he is the general of the ranks of Mars:

ṛṣistvaṃ puṇyaḥ śreṣṭhaśca jyeṣṭho jātismarastathā |

vināyako vinetā ca jinaputro jinātmajaḥ || 9 ||

bhānuḥ sahasraraśmimastvaṃ somastvaṃ ca bṛhaspatiḥ |

dhanado varuṇaścaiva tvaṃ viṣṇustvaṃ maheśvaraḥ || 10 ||

ananto nāgarājastvaṃ skandaḥ senāpatistathā |

vemacitrāsurendrastvaṃ bhaumaḥ śukro budhastathā || 11 ||


Even if I can't fully read it, there are two distinct lines for Soma--Jupiter, and Ananta--Mars.

It seems that Jupiter is "almost but not quite" the door of full enlightenment, whereas Mars is, probably, above this, which would then make sense seeing as Ananta is not really usually...I mean outside of tantra, I don't think they care for him...but when we think of him as something infinite with Varuni for his shakti, and this is influential to Mars or inner heat, then this at least seems consistent with saying Mars is a much more occult planet than Jupiter. Varuni "is" the Soma that may have been used in the previous Jupiter line, but, of course, this begins from a drop or taste and is supposed to increase to something like a lord of infinite timeless armies, which is more evident in the next line.


In a much larger Advaya Paramartha Namasangiti (http://www.dsbcproject.org/canon-text/content/110/803):

gaṇamukhyo gaṇācāryo gaṇeśo gaṇapatirvaśī|

mahānubhāvo dhaureyo'nanyaneyo mahānayaḥ||49||


This one has 162 verses emphasizing Maya Jala. Shortly before this verse is a rather strange Nairatmyasimhanimadi, which sounds like some kind of Lion Nairatma. I am not sure if this scripture "is" Namasangiti or if it is something like a line-by-line commentary that explains the non-duality of it. It carries the theme like the confusing "Kulakula" of Kubjika Tantra, which is really Kula Akula, in guises such as Lokaloka:

lokalokottarakulaṃ lokālokakulaṃ mahat|

mahāmudrākulaṃ cāgryaṃ mahoṣṇīṣakulaṃ mahat||24|


In fact the whole thing begins with Vajradhara as the family of conquering the three worlds:

atha vajradharaḥ śrīmān durdāntadamakaḥ paraḥ|

trilokavijayī vīro guhyarāṭ kuliśeśvaraḥ||1||


I am out of time, but, a few lines about Manjushri does seem to gather and arrange a few volumes' worth of Puranic and tantric material.

[Old Student]

And so when you put together that vital body, with the Shakti Pithas, charnel grounds, rivers, and so on, combined with the fact that the culture is based on pilgrimage, then it is simultaneously true that most of those sacred spots have one or two people who are positioned there somewhat permanently, whereas there are many more who wander, of a highly spiritually realized nature. It is like a guardianship set in place. You have probably seen stories of lone monks inhabiting ruins.

Which is true, at least from the point of view of my shaking, on the inside, as well.


It is the same when looking at the Buddhist Trailokya, which says Rupa, Arupa, and Kama. The Rupa is the lower trinity, Kama is really the middle or Mirror plane, and then there are three Arupa realms. Because Buddhism is really a practice, it is talking about the transmutation of Skandhas, and so the Arupa has to do with Voids in the Mental or Akashic plane, as a practice or experience. Then perhaps if you are able to view the Prabhasvara or Absolute Object it may mean the Buddhic plane.

Ronald Davidson (I will quote him on the next response) characterized the Triloka as the underworld of Mahadeva, the surface world of Vishnu, and the world high above this one of Brahma. He sees something anti-brahminical in titles and characterizations of being the conqueror of the three worlds Triloka.


If a person has mental problems or is insane, that is the Marutgana all screwed up driving it like a machine, what is left of the mind is tossed turbulently through a clash of winds. It can cause several kinds of illness which in Tibetan is called Lung which means wind disease of the heart which leads to total insanity or even death, so, the Lung Ta or Windhorse Ceremony is knocking this back into shape. If you look at all those prayer flags and then look at this Marutgana is a way to understand the compassionate wisdom which is protected in these lands.


One source I was looking in said that this is what Ganesh actually does, is he is the leader of the Gana (i.e. Gana pati).

[Old Student]

In a much larger Advaya Paramartha Namasangiti:

gaṇamukhyo gaṇācāryo gaṇeśo gaṇapatirvaśī|

mahānubhāvo dhaureyo'nanyaneyo mahānayaḥ||49||

I found a translation of this by Ronald Davidson here (https://www.scribd.com/document/115503181/Litany-of-the-Names-of-Manjusri). It's Scribd so your mileage may vary on being able to read it, for some reason they didn't preview it to me and I was able to read the whole thing.


In fact the whole thing begins with Vajradhara as the family of conquering the three worlds:

atha vajradharaḥ śrīmān durdāntadamakaḥ paraḥ|

trilokavijayī vīro guhyarāṭ kuliśeśvaraḥ||1||



According to Davidson, while this is unusual, he thinks that here Manjushri is being portrayed as having Vajradhara as an emanation.


Now the glorious Vajradhara, superb in taming those difficult to tame, being victorious over the triple world, a hero, an esoteric ruler, a lord with his weapon.
Is how Ronald Davidson translated this.

The big problem is translating the last two words: guhyarat kulisheshvarah, which as you can see he translates as "an esoteric ruler, a lord with his weapon."

Anthony Tribe, Tantric Buddhist Practice of India
“It is likely that J contains the reading of **, which progressively corrupted to guhyaiva and guhyaiva. The reading of *** guhya, could perhaps give some sense (as corrupt locative, rule over though (root) raj usually takes the genitive in this sense), but then va supported by Tib would have to be supplied. Also *** is easier to explain as a contraction than ** as an expansion. Tib’s gsang ba pa implies a reading of guhyaka: it translates as, a particle taken by the verb rgyal ba, it is hard to interpret ti as supporting any particular reading in the Sanskrit, though it could be taken as indicating the Ablative. In terms of sense guhyair va rajata iti guhyarat is plausible: “Alternatively “guhyarat” may be analysed as “one who reigns because fo the [five] secrets” To take raj in the sense of to shine or to be illustrious is also possible: “Alternatively “guhyarat” may be analyzed as “one who is radiant because of the secrets”. Neither the immediate nor the broader context, however, suggests that this is how it should be taken."

I take it that numerous people through the ages have wondered about the "rat" ending for guhyarat, and there is also one interpretation that kuliseshvarh is lord of lightning. I did find one transliteration of this which ended in an "i" which I think is probably wrong but would mean "queen of lightning" instead. Taken as a separate word, and in conjunction with guhya, rat could mean a woman's vagina, or it could mean a secret place (or, I guess, both).

Sorry for being late with these, I had a lot of cooking to do last night.

[shaberon]

Interesting.

Viras or Heroes are the esoteric counterparts of the dakinis, etc., so it is not simply "heroic" since the concept originates in Hero's March or Shurungama Samadhi and goes on from there.

"Guhyarat" looked weird but this version is Nepali Sanskrit, such as "Vajradharah" is not how it is usually spelled.

Kula Sesha Ishvara?

Naga appears to be the seventh family in one of the few places it is possibly named.

Or, Kulisesvarah looked to me like related to multiple Kulas.

Kulisa (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kulisha) is possibly Indra's Thunderbolt.

Kuliseshvari (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kulisheshvari) is one of Mahakala's special retinue of seven goddesses where he tramples the corpse of Vajrabhairava.

I would guess it refers to "Vajra" although perhaps emphasizing some particular aspect, such as Indra Tattva.

It struck me that Agni Tattva is designated as the superior to it, and this is related to Mars. By using Occult Color, inverting the spectrum placed Red at the apex thus making Mars the highest or most occult planet. If the previous Indra Tattva is perhaps more Jupiterian, this would be consistent with Ganesh as a not-quite-final destination, superceded by Agni.


It occured to me that Gah! is an onomatapeia for Frustrated.

I believe Marutgana is something that in most beings goes relatively un-noticed, unless it becomes malevolent, or is cultivated by Yoga.

But I haven't even spoken to Ganesh or Ganapati but I didn't have to because whatever it is, is already working. It may evoke Ucchista Candali yogini into someone more or less without their knowledge. Something like we have entered the Elephant caste. I say this partially due to its beneficience with the Sound and also in this case, light, meaning auric light, which, seems to me, simultaneously, able to emit a Phana or serpent hood.

So it is like bringing Ganapati and Matangi at the same time on two people. It came from the Flower Arrow.

Matangi has a few mantras that do not use Aim and one is her Sumuki mantra which ends with an unusual "Thah". It is from the same "Tha" syllable as Tatha, Tathata, Tathagata, or Hatha. As a Bija or seed syllable, Thah (http://www.shivashakti.com/mantra.htm) is a Vahni Jaya which means it is an alternate fire offering than Svaha. Also, Tham Thah is for Candika. This is the same syllable information as in a perhaps easier-to-see table (http://rootshunt.com/beejformantras.htm).

om ucchiṣṭacāṇḍalini sumuki devi mahāpiśācini hrīṁ ṭhaḥ ṭhaḥ ṭhaḥ


I saw it would do nothing without the Armor a few days ago, but, I am not sure, I got something from just thinking about it.

Ganapati is Hastipisaci, so it is reciprocal, he would appreciate a Pisaci Matangi such as this one. She cannot fail at being Vinayaki or Ganapati Hrdaya at times, and part of Janguli. The entire sadhana (https://www.manblunder.com/articlesview/srisumukhidevimantrajapa) with Nyasa and Mudras for Sumukhi Matangi is described.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Kalighat_Matangi.jpg





Sosika (http://www.shivashakti.com/sosika.htm) of Garuda Purana refutes the need of Nyasa and uses five forms of Matangi.

In that ucchista (https://srigaruda.com/matangi/) in simple terms refers to "having touched the lips", it refers to the disciple becoming able to speak words of higher power.

"Mātangi is often depicted with a parrot. In this form the parrot represents the student who is trying to mimic and copy the words of the guru, which are spoken by Mātangi.

Her words are that of the highest truth and she bestows the gift of unfailing speech and truthfulness to the sadhaka. She does this specifically in the forms of Mātangi, Karṇa-matangi and Ucchiṣṭa chandali, but generally this applies to every aspect of her form. This may be necessary in some contexts to take others out of untruth and lead people towards a greater ideal, and due to this she is associated with vaśikaraṇa or the ability to attract, persuade and control the minds of others. She takes on this role in her forms as Sumukhi-matangi, Raja-matangi and Vaishya-matangi. Especially Raja-matangi finds a particularly exhaustive depiction in the merutantra which finds traits of all forms of Matangi within her."



Yes, if untrained, the Gana may become a swarm of locusts, I can understand why it should be destined to marry Buddhi as a result of skill.

I can see why the Vajraraudris are probably "this" or probably are the Marutgana.

The Ears (Karna) of an Elephant must be involved with this.

This is bizarre but it may work.

[Old Student]

Interesting.

Viras or Heroes are the esoteric counterparts of the dakinis, etc., so it is not simply "heroic" since the concept originates in Hero's March or Shurungama Samadhi and goes on from there.

"Guhyarat" looked weird but this version is Nepali Sanskrit, such as "Vajradharah" is not how it is usually spelled.

Kula Sesha Ishvara?

Naga appears to be the seventh family in one of the few places it is possibly named.

Or, Kulisesvarah looked to me like related to multiple Kulas.

Kulisa is possibly Indra's Thunderbolt.

Kuliseshvari is one of Mahakala's special retinue of seven goddesses where he tramples the corpse of Vajrabhairava.

I would guess it refers to "Vajra" although perhaps emphasizing some particular aspect, such as Indra Tattva.

I dug up some more things:

A guy named Charles Dickerson did notes on a translation, he has:


Translation

Chapter I

And whatever action one performs, [if it is done] for the sake of the benefit of living beings, motivated by the Buddha's teaching, one will obtain much merit. King of secrets {guhya^rat} means king of those five secrets.36 Alternatively 'guhyarat' may be analysed as 'one who reigns because of the [five] secrets' {guhya^rat}. 37 He, [that is, Vajradhara,] is [also described as] the lord of the thunderbolt, namely, [the lord of] the vajra {kulisa^iSvarah}. With each [epithet so far discussed] should be construed the verb [of the sentence of the first six verses of the Namasamgiti which is structured as follows]: 'Vajradhara, the Fortunate One, [...] standing in front [of £akyamuni], joined his palms in respectful salutation and said the following', [what he said] being stated later [in verses 7-15]. [With eyes like an opened white lotus, with a face like a fullblown lotus, throwing the best of vajras upwards with his hand again and again ... (2)] [In the word] 'vibuddhafpundarikaksah]', 'pundarika' means 'white lotus' (sVetapadmam), 'vibuddha' means 'opened' (vikasitam), [and] 'aksi' means 'eye' (caksuh). He, [that is, Vajradhara,] is described as one with eyes (aksini > locane) that are like an opened white lotus: this is the [grammatical] analysis {vibuddha:pundarikam} {vibuddhapundarikaiaksah}. He is also described as one with a face (ananam > mukham) like a full-

36Wayman (1973, 37-8) cites a verse from the $ri-Paramadya Tantra that refers to five secrets: "The great weapon of the great lord who has the supreme success (siddhi) that is great, is said to be the five-pronged thunderbolt which is the great reality of the five secrets." Anandagarbha identifies these in his commentary, the Sriparamadyatlka. Wayman lists these: "(1) the bodhicitta, (2) understanding it, (3) its realisation, (4) its non-abandonment, and (5) the knowledge characterised by attainment." 37The term guhyarat is first glossed as meaning that Vajradhara is king, that is master of, the five secrets. The second gloss contrasts with this, saying he is king (over something else) as a result of the five secrets, ie. they are what give him his power. In this case -rat is being analysed etymologically, from the root Jraj, 'to reign'.

So the impetus to translate it as if it were a misspelling for "guhyaraj+ending" comes from this. I would mention that something you yourself put up on Serpent, Black Sun, HPB & St. Germain gives a better clue: From the namasangiti for Vasudhara, you have (and one other source says the lines are very old),


Arya Sri Vasudharaya Namastottarasata
Nama Srivasudharayai
(homage to the glorious vasudhara)
[…]
brahmani vedamata ca guhyarat guhyavasini
sarasvati visalaksi caturbrahmaviharini

belonging to the Brahman caste, the mother of the Veda scriptures, the goddess of speech, large-eyed, practicing the four sublime states,...

As you can see, the translation you quoted there completely elides over translating the phrase, "guhyarat guhyavasini" which there occurs as an epithet for Sri Vasudhara. One other source gives the term "guhyara" as "secret wisdom". Making the "t" an ending which I guess makes it ablative, by for or from, this phrase is "from secret wisdom clothed in secrecy." And it makes it a reference to Vasudhara.

Viro guhyarat kuliseshvarah could then be the lightning lord, hero of (as you say daka consort of) guhyarat, possibly Vasudhara. This all "doesn't work out" for Manjushri, but Davidson was saying that many of the references in the namasangiti do not, and he believes them to be descriptive rather than specifically literal -- he says normally Manjushri isn't given the status of being Vajradhara for instance. He mentions elsewhere where it references Vajravala and doesn't mean the deity of that name, but rather describes Manjushri as being a being of lightning. On the surface, this interpretation might be construed as saying that Manjushri --> Vajradhara consort with Vasudhara etc.

At any rate, there appear to be more instances of guhyarat without so much consternation, when being a "wisdom" is not an issue.


Sosika of Garuda Purana refutes the need of Nyasa and uses five forms of Matangi.

Nice, and also ties her in to Lalita and to Tripura-Sundari. Nicely done!


Her words are that of the highest truth and she bestows the gift of unfailing speech and truthfulness to the sadhaka. She does this specifically in the forms of Mātangi, Karṇa-matangi and Ucchiṣṭa chandali, but generally this applies to every aspect of her form. This may be necessary in some contexts to take others out of untruth and lead people towards a greater ideal, and due to this she is associated with vaśikaraṇa or the ability to attract, persuade and control the minds of others. She takes on this role in her forms as Sumukhi-matangi, Raja-matangi and Vaishya-matangi. Especially Raja-matangi finds a particularly exhaustive depiction in the merutantra which finds traits of all forms of Matangi within her."

Large parts of this are almost identical to some descriptions of Kurukulla's powers.

I had another thought which does not have to be remotely right, because there is a huge time separating the two: Ushas is the dawn. She spins by day and weaves by night to throw her colored cloth over the sky to make the dawn colors, walks with her sister Ratri through the early dawn when there is color and darkness. Then she expresses the first light from her breasts.

Nearly a thousand years later, the first light of dawn is Marichi. In some sense, she becomes almost Ushas' daughter, expressed from her breast.

And you had the article from Megissen who said she unravels something to threads. I wonder if she unravels the cloak that Ushas spreads to create the dawn?

[shaberon]

Most of the Vasudhara stuff is Nepali, and, I think it all comes through the same hands, which is a group in Nepal in conjunction with New Nalanda University. It all uses approximately the same linguistics. Other Nepalese sources drift into oddball spellings like Vajjadayya.

I had not noticed her epithet was skipped. Guhya Vasini = Dwells in Secrets, that is a complete name on its own.

I might think Guhyarat = Guhyaraj, since, Vadiraj Manjushri is often spelled Vadirat, in the Nepali conventions.

And so yes, I suppose it is a twist on Vasudhara, if you knew her as a wealth or harvest goddess then suddenly dharanis show up describing her as something esoteric, which could be a surprise.

Same for Manjushri; different exegetical traditions portray him either identical to, or different from, Adi Buddha. I am not sure. I can accept that Swayambhu is Adi Buddha and that it is difficult to anybody to penetrate its inmost layers. Vajradhara is the way that it teaches tantra.

Wayman's Vajra explanation is about the same as that for Paramadya Vajrasattva and his four goddesses. Holding the Vajra is certainly something that may be described early, but is the stage of a Tenth-level Bodhisattva.


I have seen a comment that suggests the Shavara hill people are really the Svara musical notes.

These raucous Ucchista deities related to Sound also seem to indicate hearing.

Considering Elephant Ears, I am not sure why Kundali or Kundalin is not given as "having earrings".

Frequently, Kundali or Kundalin (https://english-tibetan-dictionary.tumblr.com/post/59661869288/kundali) is recorded in Tibetan as "Coil". Tibetan Deities says "Circle". Either is correct, and also:

1) Kuṇḍalī (कुण्डली):—Another name for Amṛtā (Tinospora cordifolia), a species of medicinal plant and used in the treatment of fever (jvara), as described in the Jvaracikitsā (or “the treatment of fever”) which is part of the 7th-century Mādhavacikitsā, a Sanskrit classical work on Āyurveda.

Earrings, per se, are the jewelry of Amitabha. And so this has to do with binding and closing the "ears door" so that prana does not leave that way. The Amritakundalin deity has them, but, not in any special way, just as part of the standard set. The only unusual things about him is that one of his items is a Pestle and he tramples Ganesh, likely by way of destroying him, but the copy is too fuzzy for me to see what the original phrase was. His Guhyasamaja version is "green or black", wears the Naga Kings as jewelry, and has an unusual Six Places--five in the head, and his belly. This does the awkward thing of placing Gam syllable on his tongue, which sounds like Ganapati, but these really match Six Bodhisattvas. It is the Jnanapada version, i. e., same teacher as with Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra.

The mantra is probably Jivitanta (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/jivitanta) [end of life] Karaya [cause].

So that is rather ferocious towards original Ganapati. But I think it does have meaning towards destroying the default/uncontrolled Hosts, and/or eliminating some of the Brahmanical portrayals of the deity. Amritakundalin is simply swiping another name of Ganapati's, Vighnantaka. This name is common in NSP, at the end of the regular group Yamantaka, Prajnataka, Padmataka, Vighnantaka, so it is a normally Amoghasiddhi deity in the retinue, which is shown as Vajra Family in his personal practices.

Pukkasi shows up in Yogambara--Jnanadakini 14 in NSP. In her directional group is Ganesvara. Pukkasi is also standard among the Gauris in this book. The NSP includes Samputa, which is the only tantra where Vajraraudris are found; at first, they look like they might be a re-iteration of Gauris, but then the last two are Shabdavajra and Prithvivajra, Sound Object and Earth Element, and so it is just sticking in two arbitrary things that normally don't go together. Except there should be some kind of a scheme, some reason for that. The Vajraraudris have Vajradakini in Jewel Family in the Agni direction, so yes, that appears similar to Jnanadakini using Vajradakini as her Flaming Crown. Vajradakini is the first deity with solo Jnanadakini 6--but the third for Nairatma. She is first for Yogambara--Jnanadakini, in Tathagata Family, mounted on an Elephant in Lalita posture. That would render her white, and so, probably rather Indra-esque here.

Vajrasaumya is the northern deity of the Vajraraudris; and Saumya is the first deity for Vajramrita 7.

3) Saumyā (सौम्या) is also the name of a Yakṣiṇī mentioned as attending the teachings in the 6th century Mañjuśrīmūlakalpa.

Vajrasaumya appears to be the Moon in Sarvadurgati Parishodana; Vajravinayaka is present; the sun is Vajrakundali with Vajramrita. The second name is plainly intended as Shakti of the Sun. The shakti of male Vajramrita is not named, but has the unusual seed syllable Ghri ("to sprinkle", generally). In Humkara 11, Amritakundalin is renamed Vajrakundali.

That may be why I thought Ganesh goes to the sun. He is or is an ingredient of Amritakundalin, who is "renamed" Vajrakundali, a name whose only other existence is the male half of the sun in Sarvadurgati. This type of change arguably revolves around Humkara or Trailokyavijaya. Humkara is another deity in Vajramrita Tantra. Himalayan Art says they are Amrita Humkara, Amrita Krodha and Amrita Kundalin (Amritakundali), as described in the Abhidhana Tantra; Vajra Humkara, Vajra Heruka, and Amritakundalin are the names in Tibetan Deities or IWS. Obviously if there is a "soft shift" from Amrita to Vajra in their names, then, Amritakundalin is equivalent to Vajrakundali.

Vajramrita mandala has Gananayaka as its final gatekeeper.

These moves are sneaky but should always suggest some type of change. Citrasena as a retinue member is in Vajra Family, but, as a consort, it is Maha Vairocana. Jnanadakini as a consort can be "either" Akshobya or Vairocana Family.

[Old Student]

I had not noticed her epithet was skipped. Guhya Vasini = Dwells in Secrets, that is a complete name on its own.

I might think Guhyarat = Guhyaraj, since, Vadiraj Manjushri is often spelled Vadirat, in the Nepali conventions.

And so yes, I suppose it is a twist on Vasudhara, if you knew her as a wealth or harvest goddess then suddenly dharanis show up describing her as something esoteric, which could be a surprise.

Same for Manjushri; different exegetical traditions portray him either identical to, or different from, Adi Buddha. I am not sure. I can accept that Swayambhu is Adi Buddha and that it is difficult to anybody to penetrate its inmost layers. Vajradhara is the way that it teaches tantra.

Wayman's Vajra explanation is about the same as that for Paramadya Vajrasattva and his four goddesses. Holding the Vajra is certainly something that may be described early, but is the stage of a Tenth-level Bodhisattva.

Among others, Niguma is said to have been able to receive teachings directly from Vajradhara, which seems to mean she could arise as Vajradhara, as could Sukhasiddhi.


Vajrasaumya appears to be the Moon in Sarvadurgati Parishodana; Vajravinayaka is present; the sun is Vajrakundali with Vajramrita. The second name is plainly intended as Shakti of the Sun. The shakti of male Vajramrita is not named, but has the unusual seed syllable Ghri ("to sprinkle", generally). In Humkara 11, Amritakundalin is renamed Vajrakundali.

That may be why I thought Ganesh goes to the sun. He is or is an ingredient of Amritakundalin, who is "renamed" Vajrakundali, a name whose only other existence is the male half of the sun in Sarvadurgati. This type of change arguably revolves around Humkara or Trailokyavijaya. Humkara is another deity in Vajramrita Tantra. Himalayan Art says they are Amrita Humkara, Amrita Krodha and Amrita Kundalin (Amritakundali), as described in the Abhidhana Tantra; Vajra Humkara, Vajra Heruka, and Amritakundalin are the names in Tibetan Deities or IWS. Obviously if there is a "soft shift" from Amrita to Vajra in their names, then, Amritakundalin is equivalent to Vajrakundali.

Two thoughts: First, "Shakti of the sun"? This seems like something that would have a lot of history, given that there is a lot from an early time about the sun, and he stays prominent throughout.

Second, does the "soft shift" from Amrita to Vajra seem at all related to the shift at some point to add "Vajra" to various names when bringing the deities into the Vajrayana pantheon?

[shaberon]

Among others, Niguma is said to have been able to receive teachings directly from Vajradhara, which seems to mean she could arise as Vajradhara, as could Sukhasiddhi.


Yes, they would.

They would also likely say Jnanadakini.

Any of them have a Tri-kaya which probably involves Wrathful Simhamukha, whereas Samding Dorje Phagmo is Vajravarahi.

The latter is what I would describe as the most powerful intact Tulku.

With the Jnanadakinis, I am not sure how they are said to remain in manifestation. So, I have to switch it around, and say, it perhaps is in any yogini.

To arise as Vajradhara would equivalently mean she has become Guru.

She has a Dharmakaya, and if you really see it, that means you only see things involved with it. Vajradhara is the teaching form of the Dharmakaya itself.





Two thoughts: First, "Shakti of the sun"? This seems like something that would have a lot of history, given that there is a lot from an early time about the sun, and he stays prominent throughout.

Second, does the "soft shift" from Amrita to Vajra seem at all related to the shift at some point to add "Vajra" to various names when bringing the deities into the Vajrayana pantheon?

Maybe, The Art site is not saying whether the "Vajra" style of names is from Bari Gyatsa or what transmission. So I am not sure what may have changed that. Humkara 11 in NSP is a mandala which specifically re-names the Ten Wrathful Ones. And for example, Prajnataka becomes Analarka, so, it is not a simple "Vajra" prefix like Vajrasekhara does.

That is why Humkara seems like a Chrysalis for these wrathfuls. You could say that without Trailokyavijaya, one has an older/more generic set, and, with Trailokyavijaya, i. e. state of an Anangamin, then you get the new names. In that case it might make sense that you were in commune with the esoteric sun deity.

Well, in Buddhism, that is Vajra Surya which is the older name of Ratnasambhava from Dakini Jala.

Sun--Surya as described in Sarvadurgati Parishodana is certainly some kind of secret sun which appears to have an encoded Ganesh as the male seed, and, Vajramrita as shakti. In Karmamudra, Vajrasurya has much to do with the male member, and, in Vilasini Tantra, it uses a Jewel Family Dharmadhatu Ishvari.

However, Vajramrita does not come up as a yogini in Dakarnava or anywhere. It is the name of a male deity for whom we do not have the full scripture, but, the little that is available says:

Chapter 7 starts with a praise of Vajrāmṛta sung by Māmakī, who is still involved in the love play with him, while joining her hollowed palms in reverence. This song contains a description of Vajrāmṛta, who is defined as a hero encircled by other heroes, who is joined by the group of Mudrās; he emits a sound similar to that of kokilas and bees, he is goodlooking, and he experiences the pleasure of love; he is omniscient and friendly towards all beings; his body hair is bristled; and he makes love to the 24 Great Wisdoms (Tārā, Vitārā, etc.) in all three spheres of existence.

The praise ends with two Apabhraṃśa stanzas, which read: “You, dark like a petal of a blue waterlily, are the Tathāgata, the Vajra-holder. Oh Pleasure of Sexual Delight, love me! By means of that you accomplish [your] duty in the three worlds. You are empty, pure, the supreme stage, the unchanging Vajra, beginningless. The living being—either moving or unmoving—who meditates on you, how can he be born again in the saṃsāra?”.


Well then I know that Mamaki will help me get through it and I am comfortable with that since I am thinking of Mam--Mamaki as her progenitor, Varuni.

This tantra is considered "advanced visualization", which if I remember rightly, has the dakinis come from the edge onto the petals.

It doesn't quite say that Mamaki is female Vajramrita. It has the unusual "Ghri", which, in its general meaning , is very close to Varuni, since she has a mystery mudra, part of which is considered to be flicking nectar on the devotee.

It seems to me this tantra is a "shift" from Varuni to Mamaki, since Mamaki has other rites. She personally is something like an Offering from Jewel Family into Vajra Family as a "revolving consort". This Vajramrita or Jewel Family Tantra has most, if not all, Vajra Family deities. One of them is Humkara, who personally focuses one rite, which perhaps is what is meant by Mahabala Krama.

Since Vajra Family has a lot more Completion Stage practice, it seems to be seeking a Mahabala Krama or i. e. control of the Ten Wrathful Ones, along with this type of Elephantine Fountain of Youth or Amrita as harnessed by Vajramrita.

In perusing the scriptures, it does say something to the effect of Ganapati being slain and stuffed into the sun, if these names are related. It must be. It is in the Sarvadurgati.

I am not sure it says this in Agni Homa or anything about his marriages.

The Sarvadurgati refers to a male Vajramrita twice in sections about Vajra Abhiseka:

samayābhirakṣāt
siddhiḥ siddhaṃ vajrāmṛtodakam||

However it does mention Vajramrita once, with its only references to Vajrakundali [Ganapati]:

vajrakuṇḍalī
krodhaś ca rathārūḍho dakṣiṇakareṇa sapadmena

vajradharo
vāmena sapadmenādityamaṇḍaladharo raktavarṇaḥ|

vajrāmṛtā
vajrakuṇḍalikrodhavad eva|

vajraprabhakrodhaḥ
sitavarṇo haṃsārūḍho dakṣiṇakareṇa vajradhārī

vāmena
padmacandradharaḥ|

It seems to say Vajra Prabha (Light) enters a White Swan Chariot.

The only particularly evident use of Surya is at the heart of Bhrkuti and Wrathful Bhrkuti.

It uses a white and dark Ganapati, and he also appears in a series of Mudraganas, which seem to apply to the Sangha and are also given by Vidyarajas, Krodhas, Duta, and Matrikas.

Amrita comes up a few ways:

amṛtakalaśaṃ
saṃdhārya mukuṭaṃ ratnapāṇinā||



or shortly after Trilokyavijaya:

oṃ ratne
ratna ityādimantreṇa kṣalayet sarvagandhataḥ|

oṃ
amoghāvaraṇetyādimantreṇa kṣalayet kṣīragāvitaḥ|

oṃ amṛte
amṛta ityādimantreṇa kṣālayet madyam uttamam|

In both it is amicably close to Ratna.

There is a Vajrayus and Vajrayur, i. e., Ayus, Life, which sounds consistent with Namasangiti in providing an "introductory" Paramita called Ratna whoe Discipline or Mastery is Ayus; after this one is:

varadaś ca| amṛtam kṣarantam|



Right before a kalasa initiation, it says to use Amritakundali mantra:

kulatrayeṣu
sāmānyaḥ krodho hy amṛtakuṇḍaliḥ||

sarvavighnavināśāya
guhyakādhipabhāṣitaḥ||

sarvakarmikamantreṇa
mūrdhny ālabhya tato japet||

So it by no means indicates how a couple called Vajrakundali and Vajramrita become the Sun. We could try the translation again. From this excerpt, I would maintain that Ganapati remains the leader of some fundamental bandwith of existence, but, perhaps forfeits his personality and power to the Buddhist version called Amritakundalin who somewhat secretly functions as Surya or Vajrakundalin.

The ancient version of Shakti of the Sun is Samjna and Samjna, which is Perception, the skandha of Amitabha.

It seems apparent to me that there is an understanding that higher Samjna is electro-magnetic and more like the corona. In Buddhist terms this is like revealing the related Prajna or Pandara. It could also be considered the marriage of Ganesh to Buddhi.

That is like Jupiter not being the final word but like a mini-sun whose Rta aligns and harmonizes us with Solar Fire.

Whether this explains why the major Sakya Ganapati is under Ratnasambhava, I am not sure.

I would still have a hard time detailing Jewel Family or saying who is in it. The thing is so much like a process, strongly related to Vajra Family, and a little bit to Lotus. It has to do with changing the nature of the sun from a force of heat to the force of life wind which becomes Amrita in our bodies.

Marici at least a couple times is in Jewel Family, although its primary administrator is Vasudhara, and its "unrecognized" major practice is Vajra Tara. It heavily deals with Yakshas, which are earthy--subterranean, but, ultimately, are considered liberation of the life winds in the Cemeteries. So again they are a kind of scale of changing perceptions or power sources.

Ganapati and Gandharvas are among the highest type of Yaksha, and so are closer to the state of door-sealed liberation.

To me, it makes sense as a flow, and usually the element of Ratna Family is Water. I am not sure if it makes much sense as a static picture, I am not sure I could describe the default status of a worldly being's Jewel Family. It manifests as Greed. Since I do not hang out with greedy types, I am not very aware of this imbalance. I guess it is like trying to get the Amrita from everything except what it actually is.

Garuda has some, and, he may have been related to various birds historically; but in astrology, he is Aquila the Eagle. Firstly, Aquarius the Water (Nectar) Bearer is usually a veil for this sign as it is reckoned among the Four Living Creatures which I take as the symbol of the Fixed Cross. And then I would put our Garuda against whatever the disciples of "Aquila" have come up with and I think he would be more reliable. I do not personally have the affinity to it but I am confident in its ability.

The Shang-sung however is a Kinnara which plays cymbals all the time while mating for pleasure in the air. So it is virtually a Gandharva. The Gandharvas are music. Are the Sabaris?

When we have Music Offering Goddesses, are those not various types of Primordial Sound?

A Drum is not really a note. The Drum is the most powerful instrument which is why it is seen with Mandarava and other accomplished yoginis and across retinues of powerful Buddhadakinis.

Sabaris are said to lead one to the slopes of Mt. Meru by their magic flutes or jangling bell jewelry.

In terms of Entering the Mandala, forests on the feet of Meru are like a peaceful equivalent of burning out the last debris in the Cemeteries.

When I look at a Buddhist Sabari and am returned a handful of Pisacis including Gandhari, a chief of Gandharvas, and Matangi, the Sound, I start to lose the ability to dispute whether Svara "notes" is just a flimsy slip of Sabara; the meaning begins to accrue whether it was a stupid pun or not.

It is just getting started but I am pretty sure about this Elephant Clan thing and that it may help me to affect another person which will be a form of Vashikarana operating through Animal Magnetism which enforces a state of Mahamudra.

I am going to need some of what Ganapati does. In Guhyasamaja terms, I can easily get Sparsha Vajra, and then there is a rotation where Dharmadhatu Vajra replaces her. This is where I have difficulty, This is where I need the Ganapati to make is a Sound-oriented Dharmadhatu Vajra. And so the instance of Shabda Vajra in the Vajraraudris makes sense, right before Prithvi Vajra or Grounds of Manifestation. If I am operating with Ganapati's Host or Marutgana, then, the Vajraraudris are probably a corresponding equivalent, and so that Shabda, makes sense to me, at this time, in that way.

I am trying to get Ganapati to cram her into Upaya or Skillful Means, so, i. e., I am doing some type of Father Tantra. Successful results would Increase Bliss which is also at stake here.

Matangi has to do with Divine Sound being repeatable by an incarnate being.

It looks like the moon is about to go dark so, being aware of her cycle, it is worth an attempt to get closer on day three.

Ganapatihrdaya is any Tuesday; there is little awareness of her as a goddess, except for something apparently named Camut (https://vdocuments.site/a-dharani-for-each-day-the-saptavara-tradition-of-the-newar-buddhists.html) based on a Vajravarman commentary on Sarvadurgati, which perhaps is related to a blue female Ganapatihrdaya found around a Trailokyavijaya mandala in Ladakh.

It is something hidden from or by artists, like Picuva Marici and Pancha Raksa 206.

The Ganapatihrdaya I have in mind seems to be hovering around Sarvadurgati and Trailokyavijaya. That appears to match her only form.

[shaberon]

In thinking of how to welcome Ganesh, I am not sure I can muster up the whole Homa as described. Possibly some day, but, not exactly like that. It has largely the same "skeleton" as ours, and for instance shows Food Offering twice, two rounds of offerings ending on Nirajan or making bright/making hot. What is interesting about this is not all those details, but, how Ganapati becomes an individual in a ceremony for him. And that part is rather small.

Ganapati Homa (https://www.ayurveda-institut-muenchen.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Ganapati-Homa.pdf) on p. 17 has what seems to be a Nyasa for Maha Ganapati Pranapratisthapana [to set up an idol] mantra. That perhaps is normal for invoking life force into an idol. It has Gam for the heart syllable, so, Ganapati Hrdaya in this sense is Gam. Prana Patistha is a standard ceremony whose highlight is Opening the Eye (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prana_Pratishtha)--though some say it is unorthodox.

The next part, invocation of him into the fire, uses strands of syllables which I think mostly are in Buddhism; there is a form of Soham Hamsa, then Mahaganapati prana iha pranah, and it ends on:

Om Sri Mahaganapati Pranasaktyai Namah

The mantras do not copy correctly so I did not do that. But that appears to be the main identifying feature right there. It is a bit strange that it does not say he has or is holding a shakti like "Hastipisaci" says; it is as if he is directly given an obviously feminine name.

Pranasaktyai is a rare invocation in 1008 Names of Yogeshwari (https://templesinindiainfo.com/1000-names-of-sri-yogeshwari-sahasranamavali-stotram-lyrics-in-english/) or of Lakshmi (https://templesinindiainfo.com/1000-names-of-sri-lakshmi-sahasranamavali-stotram-lyrics-in-english/). Generally, Pranashakti (https://www.himalayaninstitute.org/wisdom-library/prana-shakti-heart-tantra/) is breath power in complement to Kundalinishakti or intelligence power; that article accepts Marut as a synonym for prana; it says we often "fail to notice" pranashakti although we "are" it.

Ordinary beings may fail regularly, but, once you become attuned to it, you try not to forget it.

And so it does not seem disagreeable to state Marutgana = Prana = Energy Winds.

The Homa eventually refers to Seven tongues of Agni on p. 24. It does not explain any of these mantras, mostly just says to read them. Overall, it uses the sequence Ganapati, Ista Devata, and Agni, so it is still mostly equivalent to a Nepalese Buddhist Homa.

Here is a different phrase where Rupini (https://www.parayoga.com/parayoga-invocation/) means "she who is identical to Ganesa". It is from a Parayoga Invocation:

gaṇeśa graha nakṣatra
yoginī rāśi rūpiṇīm
devīṁ mantra mayīṁ naumi
mātṛkāṁ pīṭha rūpiṇīm

Also, Gana (https://www.worldhindunews.com/all-about-shri-ganapati-the-deity-worship-and-festivals/) may be taken to mean "finest particle of caitanya [consciousness]", and Pranashakti is one of his particular talents, in another view which represents him as common to all sects. In Shakta, he is seen as married, or even honored as his female equivalent. His very name augments prana; also, he converts human language or Sound into divine language or Light. Similar principle to the Vairajas and "sound which is seen".

Breath Yoga or Soham Hamsa, etc., is very universal and certainly a part of how I got my beginning. So from just these few pieces, it certainly appears that harnessing the Marutgana = Prana is necessary before gaining the spiritual intelligence or Buddhi suggested by Kundalinishakti.

Buddhism entirely scrubs the term Kundalini, and replaces it with Candali, and when I do that, it is going to give me back Matangi who is supposed to be the Buddhi or his first celebrated wife.

This basic Pranashakti is so...basic...based almost entirely in soft breathing, I am not sure what to call it. It is not even what we call Pranayama, in fact, it is more like Pratyahara or the very first stage of Yoga. So although it is a shakti it is just about beginner's level of taking a Dharani seriously, in other words, if you were to just use Ganapati Hrdaya Dharani and associate the main meanings and concentrate on soft breathing, you would have this. Not quite as big a milestone as calling something a "wife", especially given the definition that only by augmenting the Winds do we even get to the place where Buddha's Wisdom may begun to be heard.

That is like saying his second wife Siddhi is Siddhidhatri, meaning an assembly of all shaktis. It never really says he has fourteen wives or anything like that. It usually says he has "a shakti" while at most, loosely defining her as a female equivalent. But there is a blue one at Ladakh apparently corresponding to either the trial or accomplishment of Trailokyavijaya.

There is almost nothing shared amongst Hindu sects except for Ganapati and an Apri Hymn, and, we are able to use the fullest form of Apri, plus maintain the original explanation of Bharati without getting her mixed up with Sarasvati. Bharati is arguably somewhat Jupiterian and hence reliant on the Ganesh ability; and if he is similar to Father tantra which emphasizes Method or Upaya, it is this which causes yoginis to generate and increase bliss, which is the real role of Bharati who is destined for a much more fiery character than Ganapati. Ganapati is shown as a parallel energetic stage to her, as is Kurukulla.

Fire is ultimately illumination of the mind, which itself is "mounted on" the Winds. It is not the Vital Force we are trying to enlighten, it is the mind, which is why a Ganapati Homa still renders him a precursor to Agni.

Does that mean the Seven by Seven Maruts correspond to the Seven Tongues and/or Forty-nine Fires, well, one would think so.

Is this similar to Vajra Rosary which makes the Winds into Six Families experienced in Nine Moods and doubled to 108, even though it makes an unrelated number?

I think it would work, bearing in mind the Seventh Marut or Tongue is Unmanifest and that the only way we can add a Seventh Family is like a hypostasis of six with a concealed trinity. Again this is like teaching Two Fires, Visible and Invisible, or the radiant orb and the corona.

It looks like the moon just passed the Ganapati day, so, I guess that gives about a month of warming up before thinking of it as something specific. The next New Moon is Dec. 14th with an eclipse; what the lunar calendar calls "new moon" is day one after this.