Benzodiazepines - how to withdraw successfully using alternative therapies

[Constance]

Hi there everyone :flower:

In light of Jordan Petersons recent catastrophic experiences with benzodiazepine shared here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109903-Jordan-Peterson-Update) and much of the well meaning but ill advice he received from Psychiatrists and medical practitioners, I wanted to start a thread to help those who are wanting to withdraw naturally from these accursed drugs.

Benzodiazepines are still a widely prescribed drug throughout the world but the affects from long term use can be dire and can include long term dependency, suicidal tendencies, neurological damage, seizures and even death.

It seems that withdrawing from this drug can be also highly dangerous due to blowback symptoms.

Apart from the usual advice given about weaning, I was wondering what you folks, (the resourceful Avalonians that you are) may have uncovered regarding any specific natural and alternative therapies to assist with withdrawal?

I did find some useful information here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42492-Anyone-else-here-withdrawing-from-Benzodiazepines&p=449510&highlight=benzodiazepines#post449510)

Thank you

:heart:

[Patient]

Always, the best way would be with the help of a physician. They would obviously prescribe and monitor your dosage and would lower your usage over time.

But it seems that as you are asking for "alternative" ways, I am guessing we are looking for a method without a physician.

Advice here is very problematic because there are too many unknowns and even "if" a doctor was providing the advice, I expect that they would urge a person to use a doctor.

The main reason is knowledge of course - but knowledge of the person trying to get off of the drug is very important.

Does this person need the help that the drug is giving them? Can/should they be without it?

Will they just replace it with something else?

I suppose if after all these boxes are checked or ignored and someone needs to try on their own, I suppose the best advice might be "honesty".

The person trying to get off the drug needs to be honest with themselves and with someone who is beside them helping them along the way.

Cut back on the dosage/usage slowly - going cold Turkey could cause problems.

But again - the best advice is needed from a doctor - and be honest with the doctor and yourself.

[AutumnW]

Jordan Peterson developed a very rare reaction to withdrawal from the drug. His dosage--5mgs a day, is the lowest dose a doctor will prescribe to produce the subtlest sedative effect. To put it into proper context, you will catch more of a buzz from 1/4 of an over the counter antihistamine pill. Benzos are safe and effective in the right hands, at low doses.

I was put on 20 mg's a day when I was in my teens and came off them slowly without any problem, in my early twenties -- after a brief and Hellish time, where I was suddenly pulled off of them, all at once, in a hospital.

There is no herbal remedy to assist in coming down off of them, as far as I know.

[Patient]

And if you cut down your dosage at a proper rate, then there shouldn't be any withdrawal symptoms.

[Agape]

But do you know his current state of symptoms ?

Any natural treatment, through qualified practitioner will start addressing his situation from “now”.

There are chemical antidotes and antagonists to benzodiazepines that could have helped him in short time, possibly if he went to the right hospital and doctor and stated his case.

Treatment for benzodiazepine depedance and tolerance (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flumazenil)

Chemically, single codeine tablet( not longer than 3 days) also acts as natural antidote and removes “trance state”, sickness, headache associated with prolonged diazepam use.

I’d recommend strongly not to start using another psychoactive drug, even natural one.

🙏

[wegge]

I´d throw in fasting for faster detox and breathwork to manage your different emotions that might come up. Better all done with practitioners and a MD as supervisor. Just a thought of mine, but cutting edge fasting and breathwork practitioners mentioned that their modalities work wonder with for example Heroin withdrawal. I´ve seen some friends go through that withdrawal, it´s definitely no joke.

[AutumnW]

And if you cut down your dosage at a proper rate, then there shouldn't be any withdrawal symptoms.

Zero side effects with slow withdrawal...true. The problem Jordan Peterson had was he developed akathesia from the drug, so felt he had to go off of it quickly, which caused other problems and didn't seem to have an effect on the akathesia.

So, his is a very strange case and though this drug is worse than heroin to kick cold turkey, his approximation of its danger at very low doses is certainly not universal.

The video of his interview with his daughter shows he has been neurologically impacted to a great extent and I suspect he may even be suffering from early onset dementia, lewy body dementia or some other organic disease. It's pretty horrifying to see what he has been reduced to. But good for him for doing the interview!

[Mike]

And if you cut down your dosage at a proper rate, then there shouldn't be any withdrawal symptoms.

Zero side effects with slow withdrawal...true. The problem Jordan Peterson had was he developed akathesia from the drug, so felt he had to go off of it quickly, which caused other problems and didn't seem to have an effect on the akathesia.

So, his is a very strange case and though this drug is worse than heroin to kick cold turkey, his approximation of its danger at very low doses is certainly not universal.

The video of his interview with his daughter shows he has been neurologically impacted to a great extent and I suspect he may even be suffering from early onset dementia, lewy body dementia or some other organic disease. It's pretty horrifying to see what he has been reduced to. But good for him for doing the interview!



I disagree, I dont think he's been reduced..I think he's been further empowered. He'll ultimately be even stronger and better than before.

He's endured even more hell and come out the other end in one piece. He may be a little thin and weak at the moment, and he may be experiencing some unpleasant symptoms, but I basically saw the same man I've always seen in that interview.

He's just added one more dimension of hell to his resume. He'll process it, he'll write about it, he'll talk about it, and those that listen will become stronger right along with him. That's the alchemy of the hero's journey.

[Constance]

I´d throw in fasting for faster detox and breathwork to manage your different emotions that might come up. Better all done with practitioners and a MD as supervisor. Just a thought of mine, but cutting edge fasting and breathwork practitioners mentioned that their modalities work wonder with for example Heroin withdrawal. I´ve seen some friends go through that withdrawal, it´s definitely no joke.

Thanks for that Wegge. I appreciate your contribution.:heart:

[Constance]

I agree wholeheartedly. :heart:





I disagree, I dont think he's been reduced..I think he's been further empowered. He'll ultimately be even stronger and better than before.

He's endured even more hell and come out the other end in one piece. He may be a little thin and weak at the moment, and he may be experiencing some unpleasant symptoms, but I basically saw the same man I've always seen in that interview.

He's just added one more dimension of hell to his resume. He'll process it, he'll write about it, he'll talk about it, and those that listen will become stronger right along with him. That's the alchemy of the hero's journey.



Folks, the reason I started this thread was with the intent of people being able to share what research they have discovered regarding withdrawing from Benzodiazepines using alternative natural therapies.

Everywhere I look on the internet, there are a bazillion medical practitioners and psychiatrists offering advice on how to withdraw and so what I'd really appreciate is if people put their energies towards sharing what they do know about alternatives to what medical practitioners/psychiatrists are offering.

From what I've seen through personal dialogue in local and wider communities, internet blogs and forums and beyond is that people are continuing to suffer on a massive scale despite medical practitioners/psychiatrists best efforts.

The human body contains 60 chemical elements, but we don't know what all of them do and to add to this, there is something like a billion chemical reactions taking place in the body every second. When we add a drug like benzodiazepine into the mix, do we well and truly understand how it might affect an individual on all levels of their being?

I feel that we need to treat people wholistically and individually with a true understanding of what it takes to heal and thus why I'm open to those individuals/groups/organisations who have the capacity to offer just that.

[AutumnW]

Constance,

I think the gist of the responses you received, for the most part indicated that time, not thyme, is the best answer to the problem of withdrawal from benzos. Rather than thank one individual for responding, it would seem to be more fair to thank everyone who took the time to answer, even if they couldn't answer more specifically.:heart:

[AutumnW]

And if you cut down your dosage at a proper rate, then there shouldn't be any withdrawal symptoms.

Zero side effects with slow withdrawal...true. The problem Jordan Peterson had was he developed akathesia from the drug, so felt he had to go off of it quickly, which caused other problems and didn't seem to have an effect on the akathesia.

So, his is a very strange case and though this drug is worse than heroin to kick cold turkey, his approximation of its danger at very low doses is certainly not universal.

The video of his interview with his daughter shows he has been neurologically impacted to a great extent and I suspect he may even be suffering from early onset dementia, lewy body dementia or some other organic disease. It's pretty horrifying to see what he has been reduced to. But good for him for doing the interview!



I disagree, I dont think he's been reduced..I think he's been further empowered. He'll ultimately be even stronger and better than before.

He's endured even more hell and come out the other end in one piece. He may be a little thin and weak at the moment, and he may be experiencing some unpleasant symptoms, but I basically saw the same man I've always seen in that interview.

He's just added one more dimension of hell to his resume. He'll process it, he'll write about it, he'll talk about it, and those that listen will become stronger right along with him. That's the alchemy of the hero's journey.

Agreed. Poor choice of words. Reduced sounds like a moral judgement or like he's a mere husk of a human now. I found the interview horrifying in terms of his pain and suffering and just the pure creepy feelings he had to live with. I hope that he is through it, that it doesn't come back. Unfortunately the hero's ultimate journey for all of us ends in death.

[AutumnW]

I remember something about Peterson eating nothing but meat for awhile there. Don't know if the timing is synchronized or not, but, I did find this from a book on Behavioral Neurology which explains symptoms seen in a subset of Parkinson's patients, when I googled akathisia and protein.

As it turns out, the treatment for patients with akathisia which is seen in Parkinson's sometimes....is to reduce protein and take their medication (L-dopa?) on a regular basis.

I wonder if what he had or has is a form of Parkinson's, because the trajectory of his illness and symptoms don't seem to match much else. There are all kinds of movement disorders but only akathisia has the specific signature sensations he describes. There is something called myoclonic jerking in other diseases but this one is seen in Parkinsons. Hopefully, he is the only person on the planet that got this from benzos, and it isn't PD.

Maybe he had or has the beginnings of Parkinsons and eating the pure protein diet brought on symptoms.

Scroll down 2/3 of the way.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=gd_hBwAAQBAJ&pg=PT217&lpg=PT217&dq=too+much+protein+symptoms+akathisia&source=bl&ots=yOOBjJ9Lo4&sig=ACfU3U0PM5xQ-7NNlBFAHJeEyI3CMrWe-w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikjfr4pK3qAhXaIDQIHdpuC7MQ6AEwDnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=too%20much%20protein%20symptoms%20akathisia&f=false

[Constance]

Constance,

I think the gist of the responses you received, for the most part indicated that time, not thyme, is the best answer to the problem of withdrawal from benzos. Rather than thank one individual for responding, it would seem to be more fair to thank everyone who took the time to answer, even if they couldn't answer more specifically.:heart:

Agreed. And this is where I was missing the point. Thank you everyone for your contributions :heart:

[Delight]

I thought about the akasthesia Parkinson's causes. A member here started a thread about taurine. It is really a great thread and it did touch on help with Parkinson's.

Taurine for Macular Degeneration, Enlarged Heart (Heart Failure), Gallstones? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101645-Taurine-for-Macular-Degeneration-Enlarged-Heart--Heart-Failure--Gallstones)

I read this article.
APRIL 5, 2018
BY FRANK C. CHURCH
Neuroprotection with Taurine in a Parkinson’s Model System (https://journeywithparkinsons.com/2018/04/05/neuroprotection-with-taurine-in-a-parkinsons-model-system/)


Taurine supplementation is included in an article which is a naturopathic approach

The top 6 nutrients you need to help you get off benzodiazapine
By Dr. Nicole Cain ND, MA
Apr 20, 2017
(https://drnicolecain.com/blog/the-top-6-nutrients-you-need-to-help-you-get-off-of-your-benzodiazapine/)

Purpose:

This formulation contains nutrients that support the body’s natural production of GABA.
Some of the components are powerful antioxidants that can help heal the brain from damage caused by benzodiazepine.
As a relaxing blend, this powder can reduce symptoms of anxiety and safely and naturally promote restful sleep.
Instructions:

Mix the following into small cup of water:

Taurine
Inositol
L-Theanine
Glycine
Phosphatidyl Serine
Sig: Typically I have patients drink this powder in water before bed but it may also be used for daytime symptoms.

To enhance this formula, I often add Magnesium L-Threonate 400 mg. This form of magnesium is able to cross the blood-brain barrier and does not cause looseness of the bowels, a symptom that may occur with the use of magnesium citrate. Magnesium is the useful information of GABA, it feeds the neurotransmitter production pathways and is generally relaxing, reduces anxiety, and improves sleep.