Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

[Mike]

...and they are both black men, which I don't think is insignificant. Huge kudos to both Marcellus Wiley and Jason Whitlock for standing up to this madness. And loads of credit to Tucker Carlson for continuing to do the great work.

Wiley, an ESPN sportscaster, uses BLM's own words on their website to demonstrate their goal of destroying the traditional family unit. And Whitlock calls them out directly as being the Marxist political party they really are

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jason-whitlock-slams-professional-sports-014047240.html

[Justjane]

...and they are both black men, which I don't think is insignificant. Huge kudos to both Marcellus Wiley and Jason Whitlock for standing up to this madness. And loads of credit to Tucker Carlson for continuing to do the great work.

Wiley, an ESPN sportscaster, uses BLM's own words on their website to demonstrate their goal of destroying the traditional family unit. And Whitlock calls them out directly as being the Marxist political party they really are

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jason-whitlock-slams-professional-sports-014047240.html

Wow Mike, you’re just really doubling down with this aren’t you? Why does this issue affect your sensibilities so much? I’m super confused.

Would be nice if we could take a moment to actually check and confirm sources, then we might find something like the below, rather than cherry picking this guy did.

“We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”

You can read if for yourself here: https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe (https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/)






Mod note from Bill:
The https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe (https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/) page has since been removed (which is interesting!), but it can still be found on archive.org here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200706171311/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe

[Mike]

...and they are both black men, which I don't think is insignificant. Huge kudos to both Marcellus Wiley and Jason Whitlock for standing up to this madness. And loads of credit to Tucker Carlson for continuing to do the great work.

Wiley, an ESPN sportscaster, uses BLM's own words on their website to demonstrate their goal of destroying the traditional family unit. And Whitlock calls them out directly as being the Marxist political party they really are

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jason-whitlock-slams-professional-sports-014047240.html

Wow Mike, you’re just really doubling down with this aren’t you? Why does this issue affect your sensibilities so much? I’m super confused.

Would be nice if we could take a moment to actually check and confirm sources, then we might find something like the below, rather than cherry picking this guy did.

“We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”

You can read if for yourself here: https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/


that just confirms everything i just said in my opening post.

BLM is a marxist/communist hybrid political organization bent on taking down western civilization and rebuilding it in their image.

it's all based on group identity and group guilt and group resentment. not only are they pitting black against white, they are also pitting male against female. it's divisive and militant. what "patriarchal practice" are they talking about?

you have to read between the lines just a little Jane. even a radical group like BLM has to play the game a little






Mod note from Bill:
The https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe (https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/) page has since been removed (which is interesting!), but it can still be found on archive.org here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200706171311/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe

[DeDukshyn]

BLM as a concept? :thumbsup:

BLM as an organization? :thumbsdown:

lMqnbxs7Pf4

... this isn't going to help anything ... Making white people to kneel in front of black people an apologize for being white is frankly disgusting and its not going to help anything at all. I think MLK jr would have a few things to say about BLM.

Imagine if white people went around forcing black or native people to kneel in front of them and apologize for their skin colour ... Imagine if you saw that how it would make you feel? But its ok if you just switch the roles? Horrific.

[happyuk]

...and they are both black men, which I don't think is insignificant. Huge kudos to both Marcellus Wiley and Jason Whitlock for standing up to this madness. And loads of credit to Tucker Carlson for continuing to do the great work.

Wiley, an ESPN sportscaster, uses BLM's own words on their website to demonstrate their goal of destroying the traditional family unit. And Whitlock calls them out directly as being the Marxist political party they really are

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jason-whitlock-slams-professional-sports-014047240.html

This video is kind of off-thread, but still very relevant to the point you make about the ultimate goal of destroying the traditional family unit, and which is very much explored in this presentation.

It's called "Countering The Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys (1987)" by Dr. Jawanza Kunjufu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qgw0r29GYw

In this video he explores:


When the conspiracy started
Who is against black boys
Why is there a conspiracy against them
What exactly is the conspiracy.
The relationship between black mothers and their sons
The relationship between teachers and black male students
Case studies
Rites of passage - when do black boys know when they have become men?


The video is nearly an hour long and I wish I could pick out the most relevant bits but I can't, simply because it's packed with solid arguments and information from start to finish.

"It's not a conspiracy to destroy black men, it's conspiracy to destroy black boys. If you destroy as boy, he'll never become a man". Such a painful to hear truth.

[Justjane]

...and they are both black men, which I don't think is insignificant. Huge kudos to both Marcellus Wiley and Jason Whitlock for standing up to this madness. And loads of credit to Tucker Carlson for continuing to do the great work.

Wiley, an ESPN sportscaster, uses BLM's own words on their website to demonstrate their goal of destroying the traditional family unit. And Whitlock calls them out directly as being the Marxist political party they really are

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jason-whitlock-slams-professional-sports-014047240.html

Wow Mike, you’re just really doubling down with this aren’t you? Why does this issue affect your sensibilities so much? I’m super confused.

Would be nice if we could take a moment to actually check and confirm sources, then we might find something like the below, rather than cherry picking this guy did.

“We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”

You can read if for yourself here: https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/


that just confirms everything i just said in my opening post.

BLM is a marxist/communist hybrid political organization bent on taking down western civilization and rebuilding it in their image.

it's all based on group identity and group guilt and group resentment. not only are they pitting black against white, they are also pitting male against female. it's divisive and militant. what "patriarchal practice" are they talking about?

you have to read between the lines just a little Jane. even a radical group like BLM has to play the game a little

Well, given that they tell you exactly what patriarchal practice they’re referring to, I’m confused by your question. They literally write that they’re dismantle the patriarchal practice which requires mothers to work ‘double shifts’ as in work plus mother. Copious amounts of research show us that mothers carry the load of parenting and homemaking even when they work full time so unsure why you have a problem with this.

The nuclear family has actually only existed since the 1950s, prior to that, the majority of humans lived in familial groups with multiple generations living under one roof, including sideways generations. Many societies still live this way. Again, copious amounts of research have demonstrated the negative effect the nuclear family has on people but especially mothers and children who lack the necessary support to raise their families and instead feel isolated and alone. We are seeing a rise in post natal depression and it’s subsequent consequences.

Also, would like to add regarding the whole single parent thing. A meta study was conducted a few years ago which analysed the effect of single parenting on children’s outcomes and it found that when all the other factors were removed such as poverty, mental illness, drug abuse or criminality of the parents, the outcomes of children were exactly the same.

Mike, I won’t be responding to any of your comments again. It’s becoming increasingly clear that you have a very biased political and personal agenda against any minority group and there is just no point engaging with you. You aren’t honest. You don’t take the time to research or reflect on either the content of your posts or your comments regarding them. And you seem deliberately combative and obtuse. I just don’t have the time or the wherewithal to engage with people like this anymore. I’ve decided to focus my time on actually making the world a better place. Good luck on your journey 🤗






Mod note from Bill:
The https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe (https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/) page has since been removed (which is interesting!), but it can still be found on archive.org here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200706171311/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe

[Mike]

...and they are both black men, which I don't think is insignificant. Huge kudos to both Marcellus Wiley and Jason Whitlock for standing up to this madness. And loads of credit to Tucker Carlson for continuing to do the great work.

Wiley, an ESPN sportscaster, uses BLM's own words on their website to demonstrate their goal of destroying the traditional family unit. And Whitlock calls them out directly as being the Marxist political party they really are

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jason-whitlock-slams-professional-sports-014047240.html

Wow Mike, you’re just really doubling down with this aren’t you? Why does this issue affect your sensibilities so much? I’m super confused.

Would be nice if we could take a moment to actually check and confirm sources, then we might find something like the below, rather than cherry picking this guy did.

“We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”

You can read if for yourself here: https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/


that just confirms everything i just said in my opening post.

BLM is a marxist/communist hybrid political organization bent on taking down western civilization and rebuilding it in their image.

it's all based on group identity and group guilt and group resentment. not only are they pitting black against white, they are also pitting male against female. it's divisive and militant. what "patriarchal practice" are they talking about?

you have to read between the lines just a little Jane. even a radical group like BLM has to play the game a little

Well, given that they tell you exactly what patriarchal practice they’re referring to, I’m confused by your question. They literally write that they’re dismantle the patriarchal practice which requires mothers to work ‘double shifts’ as in work plus mother. Copious amounts of research show us that mothers carry the load of parenting and homemaking even when they work full time so unsure why you have a problem with this.

The nuclear family has actually only existed since the 1950s, prior to that, the majority of humans lived in familial groups with multiple generations living under one roof, including sideways generations. Many societies still live this way. Again, copious amounts of research have demonstrated the negative effect the nuclear family has on people but especially mothers and children who lack the necessary support to raise their families and instead feel isolated and alone. We are seeing a rise in post natal depression and it’s subsequent consequences.

Also, would like to add regarding the whole single parent thing. A meta study was conducted a few years ago which analysed the effect of single parenting on children’s outcomes and it found that when all the other factors were removed such as poverty, mental illness, drug abuse or criminality of the parents, the outcomes of children were exactly the same.

Mike, I won’t be responding to any of your comments again. It’s becoming increasingly clear that you have a very biased political and personal agenda against any minority group and there is just no point engaging with you. You aren’t honest. You don’t take the time to research or reflect on either the content of your posts or your comments regarding them. And you seem deliberately combative and obtuse. I just don’t have the time or the wherewithal to engage with people like this anymore. I’ve decided to focus my time on actually making the world a better place. Good luck on your journey 🤗

thank you for taking the time to tell me you will no longer be taking the time to respond to me. very kind of you. i just told my black girlfriend what you said about my personal vendetta against minorities and we both had a good laugh about that. no, i don't have a black girlfriend, but i enjoyed writing that. whoops, was that racist? well good luck on your journey too. i've no doubt that you and your safe space will make a real difference out there.





Mod note from Bill:
The https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe (https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/) page has since been removed (which is interesting!), but it can still be found on archive.org here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200706171311/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe

[DeDukshyn]

...

Well, given that they tell you exactly what patriarchal practice they’re referring to, I’m confused by your question. They literally write that they’re dismantle the patriarchal practice which requires mothers to work ‘double shifts’ as in work plus mother. Copious amounts of research show us that mothers carry the load of parenting and homemaking even when they work full time so unsure why you have a problem with this.



Uh oh ... Men need to be the breadwinners now and women shouldn't be allowed to work jobs if they have kids? I'm pretty sure we just finally addressed that issue, now let's reverse it again?

If women are having issues with their husbands/fathers helping out then that can be solved but that's not a race issue, its a domestic one that we all face.

BLM as an organization is funded mainly by controlling wealthy interests and a bunch of bandwagoners that do it for marketing purposes. Its yet just another hijacked cause, being used to manipulate the interests of the wealthy ... nothing new.

My 2 cents.

[Justjane]

...

Well, given that they tell you exactly what patriarchal practice they’re referring to, I’m confused by your question. They literally write that they’re dismantle the patriarchal practice which requires mothers to work ‘double shifts’ as in work plus mother. Copious amounts of research show us that mothers carry the load of parenting and homemaking even when they work full time so unsure why you have a problem with this.



Uh oh ... Men need to be the breadwinners now and women shouldn't be allowed to work jobs if they have kids? I'm pretty sure we just finally addressed that issue, now let's reverse it again?

If women are having issues with their husbands/fathers helping out then that can be solved but that's not a race issue, its a domestic one that we all face.

BLM as an organization is funded mainly by controlling wealthy interests and a bunch of bandwagoners that do it for marketing purposes. Its yet just another hijacked cause, being used to manipulate the interests of the wealthy ... nothing new.

My 2 cents.

Again, it doesn’t say that, that’s just your overlay, which again, is disingenuous. What is with this group? Creating a fairer society is everyone’s business, why shouldn’t BLM include it in their remit as it applies to their people and their cause?

The deliberate intent to misunderstand or misquote their agenda by people here is frustrating and counterproductive. The only manipulation I see here is from this group and other pundits like you.

[Justjane]

...and they are both black men, which I don't think is insignificant. Huge kudos to both Marcellus Wiley and Jason Whitlock for standing up to this madness. And loads of credit to Tucker Carlson for continuing to do the great work.

Wiley, an ESPN sportscaster, uses BLM's own words on their website to demonstrate their goal of destroying the traditional family unit. And Whitlock calls them out directly as being the Marxist political party they really are

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jason-whitlock-slams-professional-sports-014047240.html

Wow Mike, you’re just really doubling down with this aren’t you? Why does this issue affect your sensibilities so much? I’m super confused.

Would be nice if we could take a moment to actually check and confirm sources, then we might find something like the below, rather than cherry picking this guy did.

“We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”

You can read if for yourself here: https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/


that just confirms everything i just said in my opening post.

BLM is a marxist/communist hybrid political organization bent on taking down western civilization and rebuilding it in their image.

it's all based on group identity and group guilt and group resentment. not only are they pitting black against white, they are also pitting male against female. it's divisive and militant. what "patriarchal practice" are they talking about?

you have to read between the lines just a little Jane. even a radical group like BLM has to play the game a little

Well, given that they tell you exactly what patriarchal practice they’re referring to, I’m confused by your question. They literally write that they’re dismantle the patriarchal practice which requires mothers to work ‘double shifts’ as in work plus mother. Copious amounts of research show us that mothers carry the load of parenting and homemaking even when they work full time so unsure why you have a problem with this.

The nuclear family has actually only existed since the 1950s, prior to that, the majority of humans lived in familial groups with multiple generations living under one roof, including sideways generations. Many societies still live this way. Again, copious amounts of research have demonstrated the negative effect the nuclear family has on people but especially mothers and children who lack the necessary support to raise their families and instead feel isolated and alone. We are seeing a rise in post natal depression and it’s subsequent consequences.

Also, would like to add regarding the whole single parent thing. A meta study was conducted a few years ago which analysed the effect of single parenting on children’s outcomes and it found that when all the other factors were removed such as poverty, mental illness, drug abuse or criminality of the parents, the outcomes of children were exactly the same.

Mike, I won’t be responding to any of your comments again. It’s becoming increasingly clear that you have a very biased political and personal agenda against any minority group and there is just no point engaging with you. You aren’t honest. You don’t take the time to research or reflect on either the content of your posts or your comments regarding them. And you seem deliberately combative and obtuse. I just don’t have the time or the wherewithal to engage with people like this anymore. I’ve decided to focus my time on actually making the world a better place. Good luck on your journey 🤗



thank you for taking the time to tell me you will no longer be taking the time to respond to me. very kind of you. i just told my black girlfriend what you said about my personal vendetta against minorities and we both had a good laugh about that. no, i don't have a black girlfriend, but i enjoyed writing that. whoops, was that racist? well good luck on your journey too. i've no doubt that you and your safe space will make a real difference out there.

I was being polite. This isn’t social media. You’re not faceless, you’re an active and productive member of this group but your positions are problematic. It’s not about needing safe spaces, don’t give a **** what you say or do, I just have a life and my time here eats into it so I need to be selective about who and what I engage with. You’re not going to change so why waste my time on lost causes.






Mod note from Bill:
The https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe (https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/) page has since been removed (which is interesting!), but it can still be found on archive.org here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200706171311/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe

[Mike]

You've just wasted more of your precious time on a lost cause. I thought you were gonna go make the world a better place.

You weren't being polite. You just wanted to take a shot at me without having to take responsibility for it. Talk about disingenuous. I don't know you at all. I've never had any exchanges with you. Your announcement was pure ceremony. Of course you could have just not returned to the thread. I wouldn't have even noticed. And then you would have had some extra time to dedicate to all those important things you're pretending to be engaged in outside the forum. And I would have had more time to be a racist bigot.

I have no biases against minorities. That's absurd. I support black lives. I do not support Black Lives Matter. If you've been paying even a little bit of attention to their activities, you'd know why.

[Bill Ryan]

I support black lives. I do not support Black Lives Matter.Exactly, and Amen to that. blm and BLM have totally different ideologies and agendas.

The following is not intended to be critical or dismissive of anyone reading this... it's just a true subjective statement for me. It's sometimes really quite hard for me to understand how smart, aware people can't tell the difference. That often truly bewilders me.... it seems so obvious.

[Billy]

A poem for everyone :bearhug:

y0csBNi5e0M


See this new thread that Bill created for full correct transcript of poem.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111430-The-Right-to-Hate----a-poem-by-Gary-Voss

[Ernie Nemeth]

I think, JustJane, that you are right. You have been fixed in your views for some time now. It is quite understandable. And not much anyone says will change that right now. Many of us came here with rigid stances as well, brought about by having felt isolated and alone for so long. And you are right.

Soon, however, if you stick it out, you will soften, and you will question your own views. Only then can learning begin anew.

I hope you hang around, your views are fresh and unique. They will alter our views as well.

Thanks for being you.

[Mike]

I think, JustJane, that you are right. You have been fixed in your views for some time now. It is quite understandable. And not much anyone says will change that right now. Many of us came here with rigid stances as well, brought about by having felt isolated and alone for so long. And you are right.

Soon, however, if you stick it out, you will soften, and you will question your own views. Only then can learning begin anew.

I hope you hang around, your views are fresh and unique. They will alter our views as well.

Thanks for being you.



Well said Ernie. And Jane, if you're willing to come back to the thread I'm willing to try this again in a civil way. Perhaps I am combative, and maybe even obtuse sometimes! But sheesh, that felt just a little bit harsh...especially with the dishonest comment thrown in!:) I probably could learn some more about BLM thru their website. I've done a lot of skimming but probably not enough real reading. So, yeah, fair enough.

[DeDukshyn]

It is not an organization's responsibility nor ability to fix the world's problems. We have several of those that have been "trying" to do that for thousands of years - non of them make the world a better place. Organizations are so prone to corruption by outside interests through the acts of funding and philanthropy. Its everywhere in plain sight to see.

So who's responsibility is it? It is all of ours and requires all our participation. If not, it is easy to sit back as a non participant and say "I wonder if BLM (the organization) has fixed the world yet?", or worse feel like they don't need to participate at all because "its the problem of the BLM organzation, not my problem to solve."

Joining a club, giving them money and practicing their rituals in the guise of fixing the world is what religions have been doing for a long time. It doesn't work. It doesn't do anything but give you the illusion it does - ad infinitum. People in their church have absolutely no idea of the corruption that has plagued their religion and would likely deny it if you told them. The group think offers protection to the corruptors.

I am speaking generally and broadly about how such organizations are most always hijacked by more private interest groups. Its risky and potentially dangerous. BLM is no different in my eyes. When I look at their guidance I see them only trying to encourage ways to promote outrage culture, find ways to make money for donations (of course), etc - instead of focusing on love and reconciliation, and small acts of kindness that go a long way - you know, the stuff we actually need.


Its up to each of us individually to influence the change, not some private clubs that have instructions for white people on how to act, etc.

This is why I do not support BLM the organization, or pretty much any organization - I didn't really learn the full truth about the cancer societies, until my father got cancer, then it became obvious that they were a front.

I of course, as indicate early in this thread support the black lives matter initiative and concept.

2 cents.

[Samson]

Blm is occupy last tuesday. A whole fkn bunch of ppl get aware, lets change ...nothing happens.


A lot of the ppl in the black lives matter mouvement have not read a single book.

Thats the Work in progress

[Samson]

I see and Hear that in the streets where i live. The blacks act superior. Arjen Robben is gonne play soccer again... Let us cheer ...and ignore.
Illiterated ppl are ready and well fed. Up.

[AutumnW]

You've just wasted more of your precious time on a lost cause. I thought you were gonna go make the world a better place.

You weren't being polite. You just wanted to take a shot at me without having to take responsibility for it. Talk about disingenuous. I don't know you at all. I've never had any exchanges with you. Your announcement was pure ceremony. Of course you could have just not returned to the thread. I wouldn't have even noticed. And then you would have had some extra time to dedicate to all those important things you're pretending to be engaged in outside the forum. And I would have had more time to be a racist bigot.

I have no biases against minorities. That's absurd. I support black lives. I do not support Black Lives Matter. If you've been paying even a little bit of attention to their activities, you'd know why.

No doubt, BLM has been infiltrated. Those with power agendas have found a parade and are marching in front of it. That is easy to believe and is kind of the norm. Look at what happened to the original, Ron Paul, anti-war tea party. It was co-opted by John McCain and Sarah Palin. Likely, not too successfully, but there was an attempt to take a movement that was about peace and essentially turn it into a party for war mongers.

You will never have to worry about a minority successfully being able to overwhelm the majority who have government power, into systematically kneeling. That is part of the current theatre being played out. But like any other production, eventually the lights turn on and people file out.

Rest easy.

[Bill Ryan]

A lot of the ppl in the black lives matter mouvement have not read a single book.

Mod note from Bill:

No, you can't say that, and you don't know that.

:focus:

[mountain_jim]

https://twitter.com/SaraCarterDC/status/1280960598663143435?s=20

1280960598663143435



“And you know, Sarah, here’s what’s interesting,” Jones said. “And, I say that because there’s so many different groups from Antifa to others being funded by George Soros and these left-wing groups who really want to get rid of religion, too. But they have infiltrated Black Lives Matter...

[Justjane]

...and they are both black men, which I don't think is insignificant. Huge kudos to both Marcellus Wiley and Jason Whitlock for standing up to this madness. And loads of credit to Tucker Carlson for continuing to do the great work.

Wiley, an ESPN sportscaster, uses BLM's own words on their website to demonstrate their goal of destroying the traditional family unit. And Whitlock calls them out directly as being the Marxist political party they really are

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jason-whitlock-slams-professional-sports-014047240.html

This video is kind of off-thread, but still very relevant to the point you make about the ultimate goal of destroying the traditional family unit, and which is very much explored in this presentation.

It's called "Countering The Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys (1987)" by Dr. Jawanza Kunjufu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qgw0r29GYw

In this video he explores:


When the conspiracy started
Who is against black boys
Why is there a conspiracy against them
What exactly is the conspiracy.
The relationship between black mothers and their sons
The relationship between teachers and black male students
Case studies
Rites of passage - when do black boys know when they have become men?


The video is nearly an hour long and I wish I could pick out the most relevant bits but I can't, simply because it's packed with solid arguments and information from start to finish.

"It's not a conspiracy to destroy black men, it's conspiracy to destroy black boys. If you destroy as boy, he'll never become a man". Such a painful to hear truth.

If only this was required viewing. Brilliant doc, thanks for posting...

[Justjane]

I think, JustJane, that you are right. You have been fixed in your views for some time now. It is quite understandable. And not much anyone says will change that right now. Many of us came here with rigid stances as well, brought about by having felt isolated and alone for so long. And you are right.

Soon, however, if you stick it out, you will soften, and you will question your own views. Only then can learning begin anew.

I hope you hang around, your views are fresh and unique. They will alter our views as well.

Thanks for being you.

Being new here Ernie doesn’t make me new to the world. It doesn’t even make me new to the truther experience. I went through my awakening over 20 years ago, very confident with who I am and how I see the world but I do appreciate you reaching out to make me feel welcome. Just don’t expect me to change. It’s not why I’m here, sorry.

[Justjane]

It is not an organization's responsibility nor ability to fix the world's problems. We have several of those that have been "trying" to do that for thousands of years - non of them make the world a better place. Organizations are so prone to corruption by outside interests through the acts of funding and philanthropy. Its everywhere in plain sight to see.

So who's responsibility is it? It is all of ours and requires all our participation. If not, it is easy to sit back as a non participant and say "I wonder if BLM (the organization) has fixed the world yet?", or worse feel like they don't need to participate at all because "its the problem of the BLM organzation, not my problem to solve."

Joining a club, giving them money and practicing their rituals in the guise of fixing the world is what religions have been doing for a long time. It doesn't work. It doesn't do anything but give you the illusion it does - ad infinitum. People in their church have absolutely no idea of the corruption that has plagued their religion and would likely deny it if you told them. The group think offers protection to the corruptors.

I am speaking generally and broadly about how such organizations are most always hijacked by more private interest groups. Its risky and potentially dangerous. BLM is no different in my eyes. When I look at their guidance I see them only trying to encourage ways to promote outrage culture, find ways to make money for donations (of course), etc - instead of focusing on love and reconciliation, and small acts of kindness that go a long way - you know, the stuff we actually need.


Its up to each of us individually to influence the change, not some private clubs that have instructions for white people on how to act, etc.

This is why I do not support BLM the organization, or pretty much any organization - I didn't really learn the full truth about the cancer societies, until my father got cancer, then it became obvious that they were a front.

I of course, as indicate early in this thread support the black lives matter initiative and concept.

2 cents.

Actually, this isn’t true at all. Social organisations are not the same as churches, and they do lead to real world changes. The feminist and labour movements of old brought enormous change to our lives and communities.

Of course their open to corruption, no ones arguing they’re not, but at this point, they are achieving some important ends. You may not agree with them but those achievements are being made regardless.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I support black lives. I do not support Black Lives Matter.Exactly, and Amen to that. blm and BLM have totally different ideologies and agendas.

The following is not intended to be critical or dismissive of anyone reading this... it's just a true subjective statement for me. It's sometimes really quite hard for me to understand how smart, aware people can't tell the difference. That often truly bewilders me.... it seems so obvious.

So we support black lives matter until they start to organise?

Noted.

[Bill Ryan]

So we support black lives matter until they start to organise?

Noted.Wow, are you [sometimes!] pointed and sarcastic. :heart:

No, that's not what that meant.

[DeDukshyn]

...

Actually, this isn’t true at all. Social organisations are not the same as churches, and they do lead to real world changes. The feminist and labour movements of old brought enormous change to our lives and communities.

.

Except that labour and feminine movements are movements ... not organizations. (and I'd say the jury is still out on who really promoted the feminists movements and who gained the most from the way it was implemented - to my main point)

blm as a movement driven by the public? :thumbsup:

BLM as an organization? :thumbsdown:

[Justjane]

...

Actually, this isn’t true at all. Social organisations are not the same as churches, and they do lead to real world changes. The feminist and labour movements of old brought enormous change to our lives and communities.

.

Except that labour and feminine movements are movements ... not organizations. (and I'd say the jury is still out on who really promoted the feminists movements and who gained the most from the way it was implemented - to my main point)

blm as a movement driven by the public? :thumbsup:

BLM as an organization? :thumbsdown:

All movements are driven by organisations. Without organisations driving them, movements lose momentum. The feminist, labour and civil rights movements all had organisations supporting them and pushing them forward.

What you all seem to be objecting to is who is funding these organisations and what you think their agenda is. If it’s not clear, I’m in full support of a Marxist, communist agenda, and I fully recognise that systems sometimes need to be destroyed to be rebuilt and sometimes that can lead to violence especially when people try all other means and have not been heard. I also think it’s about time the US experienced just a small taste of what it is they’ve dished out to the rest of the world.

I objected so strongly to what Mike posted here because I was also following the systemic racism thread and I found many of his responses there problematic and indicative of deeper, underlying issues but I’m happy for Mike to correct me. I just don’t want to be continually drawn into the same issues.

Black Americans have a tough time in the US. There are systemic issues that support that. They’ve tried various means to address this issue most of which have been unsuccessful. Black Lives Matter as a movement or an organisation provides them a platform to collectivise and be heard. That that cause could be infiltrated by people with nefarious agendas or become corrupted is a part of life, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a right to exist, to be supported or to try to address the issues they are concerned with.

I think some of us need to grow up and recognise that nothing is going to unfold perfectly or in accordance with our wishes or how we would do things or think they should be done. Sometimes we need to recognise that trade offs need to happen and hope that the good which can be achieved can outweigh the bad.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



So we support black lives matter until they start to organise?

Noted.Wow, are you [sometimes!] pointed and sarcastic. :heart:

No, that's not what that meant.

Nah, I’m just Australian. We call it what it is 😂 but super glad to hear it. Hope I’ve articulated myself better in my other post!

[Bill Ryan]

If it’s not clear, I’m in full support of a Marxist, communist agenda, and I fully recognise that systems sometimes need to be destroyed to be rebuilt and sometimes that can lead to violence especially when people try all other means and have not been heard. I also think it’s about time the US experienced just a small taste of what it is they’ve dished out to the rest of the world.

:bump:

I think this clarification of Jane's position (a very helpful one, too, so thank you) might be very useful for all members to fully understand.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I wouldn't expect you to change. I suspect you will grow, however. And you will, I've no doubt.

You came here. No one forced you to. You will mellow, and you will grow, because that is why you are here. God bless you.

You are needed. But I digress. You are not quite there yet.

[Justjane]

If it’s not clear, I’m in full support of a Marxist, communist agenda, and I fully recognise that systems sometimes need to be destroyed to be rebuilt and sometimes that can lead to violence especially when people try all other means and have not been heard. I also think it’s about time the US experienced just a small taste of what it is they’ve dished out to the rest of the world.

:bump:

I think this clarification of Jane's position (a very helpful one, too, so thank you) might be very useful for all members to fully understand.

Sure, because now it means you can disregard what I say now that I’ve outed myself which means there’s probably little point to me continuing a dialogue here.

[Justjane]

I wouldn't expect you to change. I suspect you will grow, however. And you will, I've no doubt.

You came here. No one forced you to. You will mellow, and you will grow, because that is why you are here. God bless you.

You are needed. But I digress. You are not quite there yet.

Ernie, I’m sorry but that is some seriously condescending, arrogant **** right there. Disagreeing with you doesn’t mean I have something to learn or need to grow or mean I’m ‘not quite there yet’. I know why I’m here and what it was I needed to learn and do and it wasn’t to pontificate about the nefarious agendas of the ruling classes. I get it, they have them, I’m wanting to move beyond those conversations to affecting actual change. Doesn’t seem like anyone here is actually interested in that.

[Ernie Nemeth]

No!

Because we recognize the truth of what you say but also see a higher purpose you have yet to experience - or understand.

[Constance]

I’m wanting to move beyond those conversations to affecting actual change. Doesn’t seem like anyone here is actually interested in that.

I am Jane. Have you seen my latest thread? :flower:

[Gemma13]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

[onawah]

I am wondering why Jane has shared so little about herself in her Avalon profile.
Nothing as to her (assuming Jane is female--am I using the politically correct terms here?) gender, country of origin, age, etc.
If, as it seems, she is intent on enlisting some of us in activism, I think it would be appropriate to share with us a little bit more about herself, her background, if she is a member of any other groups, etc.

[DeDukshyn]

If it’s not clear, I’m in full support of a Marxist, communist agenda, and I fully recognise that systems sometimes need to be destroyed to be rebuilt and sometimes that can lead to violence especially when people try all other means and have not been heard. I also think it’s about time the US experienced just a small taste of what it is they’ve dished out to the rest of the world.

:bump:

I think this clarification of Jane's position (a very helpful one, too, so thank you) might be very useful for all members to fully understand.

I agree but its not dismissive, if that's the assertion. Still fully valid for discussion.

[Justjane]

No!

Because we recognize the truth of what you say but also see a higher purpose you have yet to experience - or understand.

And what would that be Ernie?

[Justjane]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Hi Gemma,

Communism speaks for itself and I don’t have the time or the wherewithal to write an essay which is what would be required to give due justice to this topic but I will do my best to encapsulate my position.

Communism is one of the only economic models which actually takes into the consideration the needs of its people and seeks to achieve equity for all. The old adage, ‘from each according to his ability, to each according to his need’, represents the fundamental tenet of the model.

It is also one of the only economic model that doesn’t have materiality and perpetual and unsustainable economic growth as one of its core functions. It uses technocratic principles to determine the needs of a society and distribute resources accordingly.

Unfortunately, communism requires a level of maturity and compassion which most people do not possess in order to function optimally in our society which is a shame.

[Justjane]

I am wondering why Jane has shared so little about herself in her Avalon profile.
Nothing as to her (assuming Jane is female--am I using the politically correct terms here?) gender, country of origin, age, etc.
If, as it seems, she is intent on enlisting some of us in activism, I think it would be appropriate to share with us a little bit more about herself, her background, if she is a member of any other groups, etc.

Apart from your flag, neither have you. Unsure why this is important.

[Praxis]

This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.

[Cognitive Dissident]

Hi Jane, I can't resist the urge to wade into this thread and offer my perspective as a long-time Avalon member who doesn't take himself or anything else very seriously (apart from raising global consciousness, astrology and the whole UFO thing hehehe).

First off, for many if not all the forum members, this is a judgement free-zone - it really does not matter to us if you are a communist or whatever-ist. We are all on a learning journey during each incarnation on earth, and having a strongly held belief system is often part of that learning journey. To add my perspective (maybe this is where Ernie is coming from, although I wouldn't try and speak for him), after you have been on the rollercoaster ride for a while (as Bill Hicks would put it - www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzQuE1pR1w - well worth 2 minutes of everyone's time) there comes an understanding that belief systems are not, in a certain sense, actually real. It's just a ride...

Second (again my perspective), communism is a materialist (meaning non-spiritual) 19th century ideology very similar to Darwinism. It has no applicability in the 21st century and all previous attempts to implement it have failed disastrously. I hope that you are not going to say that it has never really been tried, hehehe.

Avalon is all about a diversity of perspectives. Not about being right or wrong, but about learning from each other. There are very many wise members (not referring to myself hahaha).

[onawah]

Actually I have revealed something more than my flag, under "About Me" on my profile page, and a lot more in many posts over the years.
To other long time members of this forum it's probably clear why it's important that we become somewhat familiar with each other.
A certain amount of anonymity can be desirable for personal protection, but most of us who have been on Avalon for a long time have allowed ourselves to be vulnerable enough to reveal more about ourselves to each other than we could possibly fit on our profile page.
But for people who don't stay long, who aren't really here to become a part of a community there is often an element of secrecy and defensiveness from the start.
Periodically we get shills and trolls and immature mischief makers, ax grinders, etc. as well as people who inevitably reveal themselves to be clearly unbalanced and/or with an agenda that is very incompatible with Avalon's stated goals.
You've been here for almost a year now and posted 61 times.
To me, that's still a newcomer, so I would like to know about why you came to Avalon, if you are willing to bear your soul a little.



I am wondering why Jane has shared so little about herself in her Avalon profile.
Nothing as to her (assuming Jane is female--am I using the politically correct terms here?) gender, country of origin, age, etc.
If, as it seems, she is intent on enlisting some of us in activism, I think it would be appropriate to share with us a little bit more about herself, her background, if she is a member of any other groups, etc.

Apart from your flag, neither have you. Unsure why this is important.

[Mike]

This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.



Praxis, what are we going to do with you? You're just not quite smart enough to realize how dumb you sound. I don't know how you got out of your room, but if you follow the voices of those nice people in the white lab coats they'll guide you right back to your bed. Take the medicine. It's good.

I'm not a fan of censorship. But I regard any post or thread supporting communism and/or marxism as being on par with a post or thread supporting the flat earth. How to handle that? I don't know. Maybe a sub-forum for people who refuse to google stuff and read about it for at least 30 seconds

Jane, you are clearly articulate and intelligent. And you seem kind. I want to agree with Cognitive Dissonant here and welcome your views unreservedly, but I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or serious at this point. Communism? Marxism? How can you possibly make that argument with a straight face? I can't believe I'm saying this, but perhaps you should start a thread on all that. It may drive me crazy but you'll be making Praxis a very happy man

[Justjane]

Hi Jane, I can't resist the urge to wade into this thread and offer my perspective as a long-time Avalon member who doesn't take himself or anything else very seriously (apart from raising global consciousness, astrology and the whole UFO thing hehehe).

First off, for many if not all the forum members, this is a judgement free-zone - it really does not matter to us if you are a communist or whatever-ist. We are all on a learning journey during each incarnation on earth, and having a strongly held belief system is often part of that learning journey. To add my perspective (maybe this is where Ernie is coming from, although I wouldn't try and speak for him), after you have been on the rollercoaster ride for a while (as Bill Hicks would put it - www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzQuE1pR1w - well worth 2 minutes of everyone's time) there comes an understanding that belief systems are not, in a certain sense, actually real. It's just a ride...

Second (again my perspective), communism is a materialist (meaning non-spiritual) 19th century ideology very similar to Darwinism. It has no applicability in the 21st century and all previous attempts to implement it have failed disastrously. I hope that you are not going to say that it has never really been tried, hehehe.

Avalon is all about a diversity of perspectives. Not about being right or wrong, but about learning from each other. There are very many wise members (not referring to myself hahaha).

Communism isn’t a belief system, it’s an economic model, all economic models are ‘not real’. Communism hasn’t ever been applied. And even if it were, it can’t be applied in a globalised system where the majority of the world follows a completely different economic model. I used materialist in the context of being concerned with material possessions. Communism is applicable at any time but requires a level of spiritual awakening that would not be possible at this time so I take your point there.

And sure, the world isn’t real but we sure as **** have to live here so we might as well do something with our time while we’re here.

[Justjane]

This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.



Praxis, what are we going to do with you? You're just not quite smart enough to realize how dumb you sound. I don't know how you got out of your room, but if you follow the voices of those nice people in the white lab coats they'll guide you right back to your bed. Take the medicine. It's good.

...

Jane, you are clearly articulate and intelligent. And you seem kind.

You're clearly not. Mike, for everything that you think you know about the US, the establishment, the elite, whatever, WHY WHY WHY, have they sought to make such a demon out of communism??? Is it really just coincidence that that’s the one thing you just magically happen to agree with the controllers on 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[Justjane]

This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.

Ohmigosh I know 🤦🏻‍♀️ It’s embarrassing. The control one man has over the minds of so many and it all started with one little paper in one little city. My grandparents used to know him. My cousin was friends with his son Lachlan. And now he holds the US in the palm of his hand. And none of them can see who he is or what he does or even what he wants....

This is going to be fun 🙌

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Actually I have revealed something more than my flag, under "About Me" on my profile page, and a lot more in many posts over the years.
To other long time members of this forum it's probably clear why it's important that we become somewhat familiar with each other.
A certain amount of anonymity can be desirable for personal protection, but most of us who have been on Avalon for a long time have allowed ourselves to be vulnerable enough to reveal more about ourselves to each other than we could possibly fit on our profile page.
But for people who don't stay long, who aren't really here to become a part of a community there is often an element of secrecy and defensiveness from the start.
Periodically we get shills and trolls and immature mischief makers, ax grinders, etc. as well as people who inevitably reveal themselves to be clearly unbalanced and/or with an agenda that is very incompatible with Avalon's stated goals.
You've been here for almost a year now and posted 61 times.
To me, that's still a newcomer, so I would like to know about why you came to Avalon, if you are willing to bear your soul a little.



I am wondering why Jane has shared so little about herself in her Avalon profile.
Nothing as to her (assuming Jane is female--am I using the politically correct terms here?) gender, country of origin, age, etc.
If, as it seems, she is intent on enlisting some of us in activism, I think it would be appropriate to share with us a little bit more about herself, her background, if she is a member of any other groups, etc.

Apart from your flag, neither have you. Unsure why this is important.

I was hoping to see some of this: To encourage and support positive, constructive, and high quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience.

Yet to find it though....

[Mike]

This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.



Praxis, what are we going to do with you? You're just not quite smart enough to realize how dumb you sound. I don't know how you got out of your room, but if you follow the voices of those nice people in the white lab coats they'll guide you right back to your bed. Take the medicine. It's good.

...

Jane, you are clearly articulate and intelligent. And you seem kind.

You're clearly not. Mike, for everything that you think you know about the US, the establishment, the elite, whatever, WHY WHY WHY, have they sought to make such a demon out of communism??? Is it really just coincidence that that’s the one thing you just magically happen to agree with the controllers on 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️



There's no magic to it. Just a certain level of sanity you seem to be lacking.

WHY WHY WHY won't you just google it? Here's some key words: "Stalin". "Mao"

[Justjane]

This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.



Praxis, what are we going to do with you? You're just not quite smart enough to realize how dumb you sound. I don't know how you got out of your room, but if you follow the voices of those nice people in the white lab coats they'll guide you right back to your bed. Take the medicine. It's good.

...

Jane, you are clearly articulate and intelligent. And you seem kind.

You're clearly not. Mike, for everything that you think you know about the US, the establishment, the elite, whatever, WHY WHY WHY, have they sought to make such a demon out of communism??? Is it really just coincidence that that’s the one thing you just magically happen to agree with the controllers on 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️



There's no magic to it. Just a certain level of sanity you seem to be lacking.

WHY WHY WHY won't you just google it? Here's some key words: "Stalin". "Mao"

Yep, cos that’s all it is 🙄🙄🙄

[Mike]

Communism isn't a belief system? Wow. If that's your baseline understanding then I'm not sure much can be done for you, particularly when all of history and virtually everything going on in the world today suggests otherwise. Oh, but that's not real communism, I forgot. Every sociopath says that! If only you were the one running things, then it would work wonderfully, right? Of course.

Communism has been the religion of every country it has ever been applied in. More accurately, a cult. It is a fervently held belief system. And now it's doing the same in the US, all under the guise of social justice.

This has been covered here about 5,000,000 times already in the last few months. If you want to explain how JustJane communism would be any different than every other form of communism that has ever existed and exists today, I'm all ears! It just amuses me that you can hold this belief and still call me the arrogant one!:) But please, go on. The floor is all yours

[Gemma13]

I've started a COMMUNISM THREAD here so discussions can continue there so as not to derail this thread. :)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111437-Communism&p=1365327&viewfull=1#post1365327

[Bill Ryan]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

[Bill Ryan]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)And given that this thread was originally about sportscasters: :)

When I was a kid, the West Indian cricket team were kings. They had some of the best, most gifted, and most spectacular players the world has ever seen.

And very wonderful men, too. Great men. Not a bad apple, of any kind, in any single one of them, ever. In the cricketing world, they're universally respected and revered. A whole bunch of heroes. I've never stopped supporting them as a team. I support the West Indies to this day. (And I'm English. :) )

White Supremacy? Give me a f*cking break. The greatest West Indian cricketer of them all (though there are many who might vie for the title), was 'King' Viv Richards. He'd just laugh. He knew he was the best. And then showed everyone.

He never once wore a protective helmet, even when a [very!] hard ball was aimed at his head at nearly 100 mph. He just lackadaisically chewed gum all the time while he systematically dismantled the opposition. His lazy, confident swagger when he walked to the wicket (i.e. his turn to bat) would literally strike fear in the other team.

And this is the cricketing world. Export all these multiracial folks to another planet, and there'd never be a problem. These guys, many of whom are close personal friends across the nations, all get along just great (and so do the women cricketers, too, a slightly smaller community).

Afghanistan
Australia
Bangladesh
England
India
Ireland
New Zealand
Pakistan
South Africa
Sri Lanka
West Indies
Zimbabwe

:focus:

[Praxis]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

[samildamach]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

I personally have you in my very very small ignore list.
I have found in the past some of your personal attacks on people abhorrent. Unfortunately for me if somebody quotes you it comes up.

[Mypos]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

[Mike]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?


You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.

[DeDukshyn]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?


You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.

I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.

[DeDukshyn]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

[Mypos]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?


You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.

And again you throw some more insults at him? Why would you do this? Are you on this forum to pick fights?

[Mypos]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.

[Mike]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?


You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.

I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.



Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why it's disastrous and unproductive.

The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.

[DeDukshyn]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?


You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.

I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.



Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why they're disastrous and unproductive.

The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.

I get all that ...

I just haven't seen you respond so emotionally to something in a while, if ever. Emotional reactions tend to try to replace good clear discussion with logic and proper dialogue. :)

[Mike]

Hi Mike, you're right, I suppose I have been more emotional lately. Which is kind of ironic, because some members have accused me of not being emotional enough!:) And maybe they have a point. Maybe I am overintellectualizing somewhat when it comes to the suffering of minorities. I acknowledge that.

I fear that western civilization is being destroyed. Right in front of our eyes. There's just no more time for niceties. It's happening right now. If I seem short on patience, or more animated than usual, that's why. Believe me, i'd prefer to be talking about something else!:handshake:

[Matthew]

...

I think it is, and has been for a while. Generations with less history and more SJW in schools and universities getting older. Knock out education for a generation, and you have an ingredient for cultural marxism; ...it seems to be the common thread. Who profits is anyone's guess and I very humbly suggest everyone does.

This from last year (it might be posted elsewhere on the forum) - Zuby, Escaping the SJW Cult | Real Talk with Zuby #048 - Keri Smith (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSyVQkJE_SU) (youtube link). Interesting bit at the 44:00 mark.

But they are shooting themselves in the foot, like with the Fortnite trick on the 4th July (https://youtu.be/4REJu3Wflac) (youtube link), when they bait and switched a game for education, to teach you hip hop is good music, I;m not kidding. I think hip hop is good music, I'm not even learning anything. Other educational content pushed in the 'game' is woke-bias.

Have you seen what has happened to comics? There's a new Marvel super-hero called snowflake. I;m not kidding, this is a real thing. Here she is with her friend safespace

Snowflake? Safespace? Beautifully illustrated but not funny. No, it is funny. Also, not funny. Woke cultural-marxism lol cry lol

https://www.pride.com/sites/www.pride.com/files/snowflake_safespace.jpg

[silvanelf]

I'm not a fan of censorship. But I regard any post or thread supporting communism and/or marxism as being on par with a post or thread supporting the flat earth. How to handle that? I don't know. Maybe a sub-forum for people who refuse to google stuff and read about it for at least 30 seconds


Here is the Encyclopedia Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/) ("The world standard in knowledge since 1768") about "Communism". You should read about it for at least 30 seconds -- you seem to ignore any arguments outside of your far-right-wing bubble.


Communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories) and the natural resources of a society. Communism is thus a form of socialism—a higher and more advanced form, according to its advocates. Exactly how communism differs from socialism has long been a matter of debate, but the distinction rests largely on the communists’ adherence to the revolutionary socialism of Karl Marx.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism

[Bill Ryan]

you seem to ignore any arguments outside of your far-right-wing bubble.
Mod note from Bill:

Please. :flower:

This doesn't help. Referring to anyone as being in a "far-right-wing bubble" is almost as bad (and generalized, and inaccurate) as calling someone a "racist", a "white supremacist", a "snowflake" (which Justjane called me once (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111318-Lord-Jamar-doesn-t-support-BLM&p=1363299&highlight=snowflake#post1363299) — Wow!) or a "commie bastard". (That's Australian. :) )

:focus:

[Justjane]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

Apparently it’s a-ok to call people dumb and sociopaths but we draw the line at white supremacist.

[Tintin]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

Apparently it’s a-ok to call people dumb and sociopaths but we draw the line at white supremacist.

Jane: do you have children?

[Mike]

I'm not a fan of censorship. But I regard any post or thread supporting communism and/or marxism as being on par with a post or thread supporting the flat earth. How to handle that? I don't know. Maybe a sub-forum for people who refuse to google stuff and read about it for at least 30 seconds


Here is the Encyclopedia Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/) ("The world standard in knowledge since 1768") about "Communism". You should read about it for at least 30 seconds -- you seem to ignore any arguments outside of your far-right-wing bubble.


Communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories) and the natural resources of a society. Communism is thus a form of socialism—a higher and more advanced form, according to its advocates. Exactly how communism differs from socialism has long been a matter of debate, but the distinction rests largely on the communists’ adherence to the revolutionary socialism of Karl Marx.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism



read it. didn't take 30 seconds, but i digress.

didn't learn anything new there. it's just reinforced my belief that communism is a horrible idea. what is it about this brief description that you find to be so enlightening?

[Mike]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

Apparently it’s a-ok to call people dumb and sociopaths but we draw the line at white supremacist.



the difference is that i don't go around arbitrarily insulting people. but if i am insulted, like i have been by praxis many times, and by you, i will defend myself. his accusations are groundless, and so are yours..and in the spirit of politeness, lets just say unintelligent.

[Justjane]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?


You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.

I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.



Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why it's disastrous and unproductive.

The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.

I’m responding to this comment for the benefit of others because you’ve raise two very very important issues that need to be addressed.

The problem with our world is precisely what and how we value both things and people. This value is constructed not inherent. We value celebrity over scholarship. Profit over community contribution. And so on. Capitalism ensures that the worst of us, narcissists, sociopaths, are more likely to become successful and affluent whilst the best of us are simply left to make do, teachers, nurses, social workers.

Hierarchies in the west are not built on competence. And even if they were that doesn’t make them right. Why should I get more by virtue of my birth?

Am surprised that I would have to make either of these arguments in this group.

[Tintin]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?


You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.

I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.



Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why it's disastrous and unproductive.

The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.

I’m responding to this comment for the benefit of others because you’ve raise two very very important issues that need to be addressed.

The problem with our world is precisely what and how we value both things and people. This value is constructed not inherent. We value celebrity over scholarship. Profit over community contribution. And so on. Capitalism ensures that the worst of us, narcissists, sociopaths, are more likely to become successful and affluent whilst the best of us are simply left to make do, teachers, nurses, social workers.

Hierarchies in the west are not built on competence. And even if they were that doesn’t make them right. Why should I get more by virtue of my birth?

Am surprised that I would have to make either of these arguments in this group.

You're riddled with contradictions here Jane. Reread what you've posted.

And I did ask a little further up-chat: do you have children?

[Justjane]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.

Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

RBE needs a resurgence.

[Mike]

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.Mod note from Bill:

Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum. :)

So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?


You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.

I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.



Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why it's disastrous and unproductive.

The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.

I’m responding to this comment for the benefit of others because you’ve raise two very very important issues that need to be addressed.

The problem with our world is precisely what and how we value both things and people. This value is constructed not inherent. We value celebrity over scholarship. Profit over community contribution. And so on. Capitalism ensures that the worst of us, narcissists, sociopaths, are more likely to become successful and affluent whilst the best of us are simply left to make do, teachers, nurses, social workers.

Hierarchies in the west are not built on competence. And even if they were that doesn’t make them right. Why should I get more by virtue of my birth?

Am surprised that I would have to make either of these arguments in this group.



hey, fair enough. cool. i don't agree with any of this and i can explain why a bit later when i have more time, but if we just stick to the issues here, like this post does, i think we can have a productive chat:thumbsup:

[Tintin]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.

Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

RBE needs a resurgence.

Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.

[AutumnW]

Fwiw,

On the issue of competence and hierarchies in Western society...I want to propose a middle ground here. The people most likely to succeed are those who have some generational wealth behind them (not always necessary, but it gives them a bit of an edge) who are highly competent and who are also ruthless and pitiless.

Take Jeff Bezos, for example....Now, you could say he's highly competent. Sure. Has society truly benefited from Amazon? Looked at one way, sheer convenience, yeah...Looked at another way...monopolization of retail and expanding across sectors illegal business practices (I can elaborate but won't here).

Not to mention the malinvestment of so many investors piling into this stock and a few others, which starves a real community of needed capital. He pays as little as he can get away with to his employees and works around providing health care by using temp workers. Workers who may have had a shot at starting their own little retail operations could not get past the Amazon barrier. Amazon has a sweet heart deal with delivery services and they don't pay taxes in Canada, though they ship their product here.

In nature this would be seen as parasitism disguised as mutualism, or a mutualism evolving into pure parasitism.

Bezos represents the very essence of success and you can say he is the most competent but you can also say, he is the most sociopathic, as well. Does society over all benefit when we reward people like him way too much? At a certain point, you can't say, "Well, he worked hard for it. He deserves it." No he doesn't, and no,
we don't deserve his pathology.

[Justjane]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.

Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

RBE needs a resurgence.

Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.

Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.

[Tintin]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.

Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

RBE needs a resurgence.

Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.

Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.

I'll respond to your question when you have answered mine. As I said, it's the relevant in the room.

[Justjane]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.

Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

RBE needs a resurgence.

Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.

Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.

I'll respond to your question when you have answered mine. As I said, it's the relevant in the room.

Good luck with that. Don’t go in for blackmail.

[Tintin]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.

Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

RBE needs a resurgence.

Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.

Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.

I'll respond to your question when you have answered mine. As I said, it's the relevant in the room.

Good luck with that. Don’t go in for blackmail.

Interesting response. Don't go in for obfuscation....and dishonesty....

[silvanelf]

Jane: do you have children?

Sorry, but in my own experience in real life situations -- for example at my work place -- I've noticed the following:


Whenever someone comes up out of the blue with a personal question like "do you have children?",
then it's the initiation of a sneak attack.

[Justjane]

Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.

I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.

Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.

Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

RBE needs a resurgence.

Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.

Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.

I'll respond to your question when you have answered mine. As I said, it's the relevant in the room.

Good luck with that. Don’t go in for blackmail.

Interesting response. Don't go in for obfuscation....and dishonesty....

Except that’s what you’re doing so 💁🏻‍♀️

You’re asking personal questions about me without explaining why as though that can identify something about me and your making statements without explanation and refusing to answer questions about it.

I can’t converse like this.

[onawah]

A very brilliant man, the late Dr. Christopher Hills
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hills)
...wrote a lot about the various "isms", how they work and don't work, and what could be done to bring about better order in the world for everyone, particularly in his books The Golden Egg and Nuclear Evolution.
( http://hillsfoundation.org/ )
But the thing that's really stuck in my mind over the years was his belief that no system will work well until we are able to identify psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists, and prevent them from doing harm.
Recently on the forum ( in a video in the thread about mind control I think) something was mentioned briefly about clinical trials that are being done to identify psychopaths, by showing them images of people being horrifically abused.
The subjects are hooked up to some kind of device that records when they are feeling pleasure, which would be true of psychopaths.
Shades of "A Clockwork Orange"
https://dazedimg-dazedgroup.netdna-ssl.com/900/azure/dazed-prod/1130/5/1135340.jpg
...and horrific enough to think about in itself, but at least some progress is being made in the identification process, hopefully.
Psychopaths especially of those three categories are said to be exceedingly clever at hiding who they really are, in mimicking emotions, displaying fake empathy (they have no real empathy), etc.
Sociopaths and narcissists are empathy-deficient, though in varying degrees, and not as ruthless, but still capable of inflicting great harm.
It would be great if, once identified, such people could be treated or at least prevented from doing damage until some way to effectively treat them could be found.
(I think identifying them could be done in a clinical setting, but actually healing them would probably have to involve a more spiritual approach, like exorcism since some form of possession by demonic entities would no doubt be at least part of the problem.)
But until that happens, it's difficult for me to imagine any of the present "isms" working in a truly constructive way.
What we have in the US now is more corporatocracy (shades of Blade Runner)
https://icdn2.digitaltrends.com/image/digitaltrends/blade-runner-predictions-feat-3.jpg
...than anything, which perhaps is the final, fatal end stage of capitalism.
The practice of US imperialism (championed as "safeguarding democracy) has no doubt been responsible for as many deaths as any communist state (particularly if you include the genocide of Native Americans); it's just much better at hiding what it's doing and painting a nicer face on it.
There's no doubt that Americans enjoy many freedoms and a standard of living far better than most of the world, but it's been in large part due to exploitation.
I think most Americans would like that to stop, but since the madmen still have control, it's very difficult to change the course.

[Tintin]

The question I asked is relevant from the point of view of how one might structure a lived environment for any dependents, unable to form a concrete opinion yet, based upon your own very strident comments around Marxism and how that might apply to that social milleu. That was the thrust behind the questioning

How do you apply your fervent views, assuming you do, in the lived sense? Bear in mind that it is future generations who have to live with the consequences of how you bring them up.

What was immediately surprising to me was how uncomfortable you were in answering something so straightforward, or not answering something so straightforward.

[Mike]

Fwiw,

On the issue of competence and hierarchies in Western society...I want to propose a middle ground here. The people most likely to succeed are those who have some generational wealth behind them (not always necessary, but it gives them a bit of an edge) who are highly competent and who are also ruthless and pitiless.

Take Jeff Bezos, for example....Now, you could say he's highly competent. Sure. Has society truly benefited from Amazon? Looked at one way, sheer convenience, yeah...Looked at another way...monopolization of retail and expanding across sectors illegal business practices (I can elaborate but won't here).

Not to mention the malinvestment of so many investors piling into this stock and a few others, which starves a real community of needed capital. He pays as little as he can get away with to his employees and works around providing health care by using temp workers. Workers who may have had a shot at starting their own little retail operations could not get past the Amazon barrier. Amazon has a sweet heart deal with delivery services and they don't pay taxes in Canada, though they ship their product here.

In nature this would be seen as parasitism disguised as mutualism, or a mutualism evolving into pure parasitism.

Bezos represents the very essence of success and you can say he is the most competent but you can also say, he is the most sociopathic, as well. Does society over all benefit when we reward people like him way too much? At a certain point, you can't say, "Well, he worked hard for it. He deserves it." No he doesn't, and no,
we don't deserve his pathology.


I hear you Jess.

The risk with capitalism is always going to be these huge gaps in wealth. It's a real problem!

I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything about it, I'm just saying I dont think we quite know what to do about it without making everything worse.

Communism may prevent those huge gaps, but what you get in return, imo, is not worth it. The potential dangers you avoid with capitalism are not worth what might be gained with communism, is the way I see it.

As an aside, Bezos eerily reminds of me Steven Greer a little, both formerly skinny wimpy dudes who packed on a ton of muscle and changed their lives dramatically. He and Greer both look like different people now. Bill has an interesting theory about Greer, actually. And that is this: the guy we now know as Greer is actually not the guy we used to know as Greer. That might make a cool thread actually

[Justjane]

The question I asked is relevant from the point of view of how one might structure a lived environment for any dependents, unable to form a concrete opinion yet, based upon your own very strident comments around Marxism and how that might apply to that social milleu. That was the thrust behind the questioning

How do you apply your fervent views, assuming you do, in the lived sense? Bear in mind that it is future generations who have to live with the consequences of how you bring them up.

What was immediately surprising to me was how uncomfortable you were in answering something so straightforward, or not answering something so straightforward.

Then why not just ask the question? What does my having or not having children have to do with it? My reticence in answering has to do with how you framed and repeated the question several times. It was creepy.

I’m still not sure I understand your question.

[AutumnW]

I hear you too, Mike and Jane too. We have to come up with something that is somehow able to include all of us while incorporating the best of many different economic models.

And yes about Greer and Bezos. Looks like they took one long look in the mirror and went full gorilla at some point. And it's kind of a metaphor. Do you want a well muscled company that is competetive without being ruthless? Do you want to pay your employees a living wage and--maybe even offer them first dibs on stock when the company goes public? Or do you want to roid up, get all aggressive, lose empathy and throw people out of work and your employees around, like samsonite luggage?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5sEIWlQO7A

[Mike]

in the conversation with God books a proposal is made by God(?) that involves a hybrid system that allows for people to make ungodly sums of money while still supporting the lower and middle class. and i think it involved a ceiling on the amount of money one could make annually; and anything above that would be recycled to the bottom. something like that.

when i read that, it really appealed to me. and it felt good! and i posted about it not too long ago. and i think Christian came along and explained how it just wouldn't work, which was disappointing. damn you Christian:)

re universal income: i have mixed feelings about it. but before i explain them, i'll admit right now that if it were about to be implemented here i'd be quite happy about it!

i think humans are built to work against something. some sort of struggle. i'm not a masochist, but i do think meaning can be found in struggle and overcoming. i think that's how we grow, both physically and spiritually. but then there's what appears to me to be needless suffering, which stifles growth of any kind and is quite destructive. and the trick - regardless of what system we're discussing - in my opinion, is in finding a way to reduce needless suffering without also removing meaning from people's lives.

some of our best art and literature was created by people who were suffering and just needed to scream a little. i think art needs that kick. but again, too much suffering kills art. so some sort of balance needs to be struck, but i'm having a hard time articulating it.

i need some fear to get my butt in gear. it really helps me. but if i'm overwhelmed by it, it paralyzes me. i don't like to be too comfortable. i get soft and lazy. if i was given a salary that i didn't earn, i think that would be the end of me.. in any kind of creative sense anyway. but i wouldn't decline it either:)

[Justjane]

I hear you too, Mike and Jane too. We have to come up with something that is somehow able to include all of us while incorporating the best of many different economic models.

And yes about Greer and Bezos. Looks like they took one long look in the mirror and went full gorilla at some point. And it's kind of a metaphor. Do you want a well muscled company that is competetive without being ruthless? Do you want to pay your employees a living wage and--maybe even offer them first dibs on stock when the company goes public? Or do you want to roid up, get all aggressive, lose empathy and throw people out of work and your employees around, like samsonite luggage?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5sEIWlQO7A

Honestly, I think we just tend to unnecessarily over complicate things. At its core, communism means that we all own the means of production and we all benefit from them equally. No one should have any ideological problem with that unless theyre a narcissist or a sociopath.

We’ve allowed the ruling classes to rape the planet and our labour to serve their own ends. We have the illusion of freedom but we’re trapped in a system which keeps us slaves to debt, where difference leads to bigotry and which prioritises division. Everything you think is a construct, manipulated by the controllers, designed to give you the illusion of free will while you buy their products, consume their entertainment and adhere to their cultural framework.

Capitalism is a lie. You don’t need competition to foster either innovation or creativity. Humans are naturally innovative and creative. It is our nature.

Most people do want to work and contribute. Smart people choose lower paying work all the time. Look at doctors versus stockbrokers.

Communism means that we can choose work which aligns with our interests and our strengths. We don’t have to chase the dollar, we can choose meaning. And there is a place for everybody according to their skills, experience and ability.

Will there still be **** jobs? Sure. And who’ll want to do them? Funnily enough, plenty of people if the conditions are right. Monotonous work conducted in short bursts is perfect for artists and creatives as they don’t get dragged into the inconveniences of other work like having to care about what their doing or playing office politics or whatever and it’s perhaps a nice trade off for them to live their dream. It would also help to keep egos in check and act as a leveller. You wanna be a rock star? Fine, go clean the toilets first.

Could go on, but you get the idea.

[Justjane]

in the conversation with God books a proposal is made by God(?) that involves a hybrid system that allows for people to make ungodly sums of money while still supporting the lower and middle class. and i think it involved a ceiling on the amount of money one could make annually; and anything above that would be recycled to the bottom. something like that.

when i read that, it really appealed to me. and it felt good! and i posted about it not too long ago. and i think Christian came along and explained how it just wouldn't work, which was disappointing. damn you Christian:)

re universal income: i have mixed feelings about it. but before i explain them, i'll admit right now that if it were about to be implemented here i'd be quite happy about it!

i think humans are built to work against something. some sort of struggle. i'm not a masochist, but i do think meaning can be found in struggle and overcoming. i think that's how we grow, both physically and spiritually. but then there's what appears to me to be needless suffering, which stifles growth of any kind and is quite destructive. and the trick - regardless of what system we're discussing - in my opinion, is in finding a way to reduce needless suffering without also removing meaning from people's lives.

some of our best art and literature was created by people who were suffering and just needed to scream a little. i think art needs that kick. but again, too much suffering kills art. so some sort of balance needs to be struck, but i'm having a hard time articulating it.

i need some fear to get my butt in gear. it really helps me. but if i'm overwhelmed by it, it paralyzes me. i don't like to be too comfortable. i get soft and lazy. if i was given a salary that i didn't earn, i think that would be the end of me.. in any kind of creative sense anyway. but i wouldn't decline it either:)

I’m currently receiving an income I didn’t technically earn. I’m on maternity leave. But during that time I’ve started 2 businesses, started a spiritual blog on Instagram, and am about to set up a YouTube channel.

The Universe will give us exactly the challenges we need to grow and mature. We don’t need society kicking us in the face too (unless it’s ordained by the universe then 💁🏻‍♀️).

[Mike]

i do agree with some of that Jane, but to make a long story short: i'll take the capitalist lie over the communist one. but hey, that's just me.

i think communism can work in smaller units but becomes unproductive for larger populations.

i think the reason that it hasn't worked is precisely because we do need competition. i think it's built into our biology.

if we were highly spiritually advanced, like you once suggested, it just may work. i would agree with that actually. i think we can find some common ground there.

but the reality is, i actually think the most productive system has to account for all our foibles and weaknesses, and not attempt to work around them. i know that likely sounds backwards. it's ironic that way, in that capitalism doesn't look too good on paper but actually works (to some degree anyway), and communism looks good on paper but doesn't really work when implemented.

but, in the abstract anyway, in a utopian world where we were all sufficiently spiritually advanced, it would make much more sense

[Mike]

in the conversation with God books a proposal is made by God(?) that involves a hybrid system that allows for people to make ungodly sums of money while still supporting the lower and middle class. and i think it involved a ceiling on the amount of money one could make annually; and anything above that would be recycled to the bottom. something like that.

when i read that, it really appealed to me. and it felt good! and i posted about it not too long ago. and i think Christian came along and explained how it just wouldn't work, which was disappointing. damn you Christian:)

re universal income: i have mixed feelings about it. but before i explain them, i'll admit right now that if it were about to be implemented here i'd be quite happy about it!

i think humans are built to work against something. some sort of struggle. i'm not a masochist, but i do think meaning can be found in struggle and overcoming. i think that's how we grow, both physically and spiritually. but then there's what appears to me to be needless suffering, which stifles growth of any kind and is quite destructive. and the trick - regardless of what system we're discussing - in my opinion, is in finding a way to reduce needless suffering without also removing meaning from people's lives.

some of our best art and literature was created by people who were suffering and just needed to scream a little. i think art needs that kick. but again, too much suffering kills art. so some sort of balance needs to be struck, but i'm having a hard time articulating it.

i need some fear to get my butt in gear. it really helps me. but if i'm overwhelmed by it, it paralyzes me. i don't like to be too comfortable. i get soft and lazy. if i was given a salary that i didn't earn, i think that would be the end of me.. in any kind of creative sense anyway. but i wouldn't decline it either:)

I’m currently receiving an income I didn’t technically earn. I’m on maternity leave. But during that time I’ve started 2 businesses, started a spiritual blog on Instagram, and am about to set up a YouTube channel.

The Universe will give us exactly the challenges we need to grow and mature. We don’t need society kicking us in the face too (unless it’s ordained by the universe then 💁🏻‍♀️).


i think that's awesome. and congratulations on your new baby and your new initiatives!

but i think you're unique in that way. i don't know. i can only speak for myself, and what I've observed around me in my 43 years, ya know?

[Justjane]

i do agree with some of that Jane, but to make a long story short: i'll take the capitalist lie over the communist one. but hey, that's just me.

i think communism can work in smaller units but becomes unproductive for larger populations.

i think the reason that it hasn't worked is precisely because we do need competition. i think it's built into our biology.

if we were highly spiritually advanced, like you once suggested, it just may work. i would agree with that actually. i think we can find some common ground there.

but the reality is, i actually think the most productive system has to account for all our foibles and weaknesses, and not attempt to work around them. i know that likely sounds backwards. it's ironic that way, in that capitalism doesn't look too good on paper but actually works (to some degree anyway), and communism looks good on paper but doesn't really work when implemented.

but, in the abstract anyway, in a utopian world where we were all sufficiently spiritually advanced, it would make much more sense

Capitalism doesn’t actually work over 99% of the worlds population. And that’s a problem and it’s something that is forgotten in all of these US and Western centric conversations.

The poorest people in Australia are a million times better off than the majority of the rest of the world. I managed a homelessness service for a number of years and the majority of our clients had cool clothes and smart phones. Of course there are some people here who have fallen through due to mental illness and addiction but they’re a rarity.

[Justjane]

in the conversation with God books a proposal is made by God(?) that involves a hybrid system that allows for people to make ungodly sums of money while still supporting the lower and middle class. and i think it involved a ceiling on the amount of money one could make annually; and anything above that would be recycled to the bottom. something like that.

when i read that, it really appealed to me. and it felt good! and i posted about it not too long ago. and i think Christian came along and explained how it just wouldn't work, which was disappointing. damn you Christian:)

re universal income: i have mixed feelings about it. but before i explain them, i'll admit right now that if it were about to be implemented here i'd be quite happy about it!

i think humans are built to work against something. some sort of struggle. i'm not a masochist, but i do think meaning can be found in struggle and overcoming. i think that's how we grow, both physically and spiritually. but then there's what appears to me to be needless suffering, which stifles growth of any kind and is quite destructive. and the trick - regardless of what system we're discussing - in my opinion, is in finding a way to reduce needless suffering without also removing meaning from people's lives.

some of our best art and literature was created by people who were suffering and just needed to scream a little. i think art needs that kick. but again, too much suffering kills art. so some sort of balance needs to be struck, but i'm having a hard time articulating it.

i need some fear to get my butt in gear. it really helps me. but if i'm overwhelmed by it, it paralyzes me. i don't like to be too comfortable. i get soft and lazy. if i was given a salary that i didn't earn, i think that would be the end of me.. in any kind of creative sense anyway. but i wouldn't decline it either:)

I’m currently receiving an income I didn’t technically earn. I’m on maternity leave. But during that time I’ve started 2 businesses, started a spiritual blog on Instagram, and am about to set up a YouTube channel.

The Universe will give us exactly the challenges we need to grow and mature. We don’t need society kicking us in the face too (unless it’s ordained by the universe then 💁🏻‍♀️).


i think that's awesome. and congratulations on your new baby and your new initiatives!

but i think you're unique in that way. i don't know. i can only speak for myself, and what I've observed around me in my 43 years, ya know?

He’s not new, I’m taking an extended leave, but thank you!

And I’m not unique. Sure, some of us could become potheads living in our mothers basement but aren’t we doing that anyway?

Most humans recognise the value in contribution.

I’m a hippie dippie lala obvs and I have older boys too who are now adults. I wasn’t a free range parent but wasn’t a typical parent either. I wasn’t concerned with the usual teenage rites of passage preferring to talk things through with my boys. I was more concerned with how they treated people, what they thought, who they might grow up to be, rather than whether or not they said **** or got drunk at a teen party.

Funnily enough, they still rebelled of a sort. I can still remember my then 17 year old yelling at me one day for making him so different and then came back a few hours later with short hair! I’m like kid, if that’s all you’re going to do, that’s the least of my problems.....

[Constance]

I've been watching all of this unfold from the sidelines and I just wanted to drop in and say that if we cannot agree upon something, why do we not just set all that aside and work on something that we can agree upon? :heart: I don't want to do your jigsaw puzzles for you but I do want to ask this question of everyone reading this.

Why do we get bogged down in semantics/systems/ideas such as communism or capitalism when the universe is constantly evolving, the past no longer exists and the future is one of possibilities?

Why not create a new model and a system outside anything that has been discussed before? Why not call it a new name? Could we look at having a new new world? Why not create a new model and a system, and a way of being that honours all beings and co-create a world that we all want to see?

Everyone here agrees that we don't like the way that the world is currently heading and that there are things that we do want for ourselves and each other which still can be discussed.
Truly, if we want heartfelt answers to the biggest issues of our lifetime, it is time to get creative. :heart:

APDiFRqkAok

[Mike]

in the conversation with God books a proposal is made by God(?) that involves a hybrid system that allows for people to make ungodly sums of money while still supporting the lower and middle class. and i think it involved a ceiling on the amount of money one could make annually; and anything above that would be recycled to the bottom. something like that.

when i read that, it really appealed to me. and it felt good! and i posted about it not too long ago. and i think Christian came along and explained how it just wouldn't work, which was disappointing. damn you Christian:)

re universal income: i have mixed feelings about it. but before i explain them, i'll admit right now that if it were about to be implemented here i'd be quite happy about it!

i think humans are built to work against something. some sort of struggle. i'm not a masochist, but i do think meaning can be found in struggle and overcoming. i think that's how we grow, both physically and spiritually. but then there's what appears to me to be needless suffering, which stifles growth of any kind and is quite destructive. and the trick - regardless of what system we're discussing - in my opinion, is in finding a way to reduce needless suffering without also removing meaning from people's lives.

some of our best art and literature was created by people who were suffering and just needed to scream a little. i think art needs that kick. but again, too much suffering kills art. so some sort of balance needs to be struck, but i'm having a hard time articulating it.

i need some fear to get my butt in gear. it really helps me. but if i'm overwhelmed by it, it paralyzes me. i don't like to be too comfortable. i get soft and lazy. if i was given a salary that i didn't earn, i think that would be the end of me.. in any kind of creative sense anyway. but i wouldn't decline it either:)

I’m currently receiving an income I didn’t technically earn. I’m on maternity leave. But during that time I’ve started 2 businesses, started a spiritual blog on Instagram, and am about to set up a YouTube channel.

The Universe will give us exactly the challenges we need to grow and mature. We don’t need society kicking us in the face too (unless it’s ordained by the universe then 💁🏻‍♀️).


i think that's awesome. and congratulations on your new baby and your new initiatives!

but i think you're unique in that way. i don't know. i can only speak for myself, and what I've observed around me in my 43 years, ya know?

He’s not new, I’m taking an extended leave, but thank you!

And I’m not unique. Sure, some of us could become potheads living in our mothers basement but aren’t we doing that anyway?

Most humans recognise the value in contribution.

I’m a hippie dippie lala obvs and I have older boys too who are now adults. I wasn’t a free range parent but wasn’t a typical parent either. I wasn’t concerned with the usual teenage rites of passage preferring to talk things through with my boys. I was more concerned with how they treated people, what they thought, who they might grow up to be, rather than whether or not they said **** or got drunk at a teen party.

Funnily enough, they still rebelled of a sort. I can still remember my then 17 year old yelling at me one day for making him so different and then came back a few hours later with short hair! I’m like kid, if that’s all you’re going to do, that’s the least of my problems.....



your post reminded me of so many things growing up. it's all kind of unrelated but it's where my mind went for some reason..

my Dad, who has always been hard of hearing due to his rock n roll youth, would make some of the funniest blunders:

me: hey Dad, can I go over to Jeremy's?
Dad: Who? Steve?

but if i were to whisper a cuss word under my breath from 20 yards away he'd hear it with ultrasonic clarity and become instantly enraged:)

and speaking of hair: when I was a kid, maybe 7 or 8, I wanted my hair to look like michael j fox's, particularly the way he wore it in the show "family ties". it was a weird obsession! my mother would spend all this time on trying to get it right, but i was never satisfied. she always gave me what i'd recognize now as sort of a comb-over look lol, but i wasn't sophisticated enough at the time to verbalize that. so i'd walk out the door brooding, giving her the evil eye...me and my comb-over. and she felt so badly about it. what a little sh!t i was.

[Constance]

I apologise for butting in there. I can see you two are now sorting things out in your own organic way. Mea culpa. Please feel free to ignore my prior post. :heart: mumbles about getting back to minding her own business....

[Justjane]

I apologise for butting in there. I can see you two are now sorting things out in your own organic way. Mea culpa. Please feel free to ignore my prior post. :heart: mumbles about getting back to minding her own business....

Haha, no problem Constance! Totally get your intent and totally agree. People get locked into the isms and their interpretation of what they mean.

That’s why so many of these conversations are redundant. We can sit here all day bashing out the merits of and complexities and problems with either capitalism or communism. For every point someone else will have a rebuttal. It’s what keeps us from paralysed from moving forward. It’s what I was trying to articulate in the thread. I’m tired of wasting my time trying to convert people.

Let’s try to find where we do agree, what we can build upon and for me, that starts with sorting out our values and what we want to the world to look like ultimately. Then we can determine a path to get there.

¤=[Post Update]=¤






in the conversation with God books a proposal is made by God(?) that involves a hybrid system that allows for people to make ungodly sums of money while still supporting the lower and middle class. and i think it involved a ceiling on the amount of money one could make annually; and anything above that would be recycled to the bottom. something like that.

when i read that, it really appealed to me. and it felt good! and i posted about it not too long ago. and i think Christian came along and explained how it just wouldn't work, which was disappointing. damn you Christian:)

re universal income: i have mixed feelings about it. but before i explain them, i'll admit right now that if it were about to be implemented here i'd be quite happy about it!

i think humans are built to work against something. some sort of struggle. i'm not a masochist, but i do think meaning can be found in struggle and overcoming. i think that's how we grow, both physically and spiritually. but then there's what appears to me to be needless suffering, which stifles growth of any kind and is quite destructive. and the trick - regardless of what system we're discussing - in my opinion, is in finding a way to reduce needless suffering without also removing meaning from people's lives.

some of our best art and literature was created by people who were suffering and just needed to scream a little. i think art needs that kick. but again, too much suffering kills art. so some sort of balance needs to be struck, but i'm having a hard time articulating it.

i need some fear to get my butt in gear. it really helps me. but if i'm overwhelmed by it, it paralyzes me. i don't like to be too comfortable. i get soft and lazy. if i was given a salary that i didn't earn, i think that would be the end of me.. in any kind of creative sense anyway. but i wouldn't decline it either:)

I’m currently receiving an income I didn’t technically earn. I’m on maternity leave. But during that time I’ve started 2 businesses, started a spiritual blog on Instagram, and am about to set up a YouTube channel.

The Universe will give us exactly the challenges we need to grow and mature. We don’t need society kicking us in the face too (unless it’s ordained by the universe then 💁🏻‍♀️).


i think that's awesome. and congratulations on your new baby and your new initiatives!

but i think you're unique in that way. i don't know. i can only speak for myself, and what I've observed around me in my 43 years, ya know?

He’s not new, I’m taking an extended leave, but thank you!

And I’m not unique. Sure, some of us could become potheads living in our mothers basement but aren’t we doing that anyway?

Most humans recognise the value in contribution.

I’m a hippie dippie lala obvs and I have older boys too who are now adults. I wasn’t a free range parent but wasn’t a typical parent either. I wasn’t concerned with the usual teenage rites of passage preferring to talk things through with my boys. I was more concerned with how they treated people, what they thought, who they might grow up to be, rather than whether or not they said **** or got drunk at a teen party.

Funnily enough, they still rebelled of a sort. I can still remember my then 17 year old yelling at me one day for making him so different and then came back a few hours later with short hair! I’m like kid, if that’s all you’re going to do, that’s the least of my problems.....



your post reminded me of so many things growing up. it's all kind of unrelated but it's where my mind went for some reason..

my Dad, who has always been hard of hearing due to his rock n roll youth, would make some of the funniest blunders:

me: hey Dad, can I go over to Jeremy's?
Dad: Who? Steve?

but if i were to whisper a cuss word under my breath from 20 yards away he'd hear it with ultrasonic clarity and become instantly enraged:)

and speaking of hair: when I was a kid, maybe 7 or 8, I wanted my hair to look like michael j fox's, particularly the way he wore it in the show "family ties". it was a weird obsession! my mother would spend all this time on trying to get it right, but i was never satisfied. she always gave me what i'd recognize now as sort of a comb-over look lol, but i wasn't sophisticated enough at the time to verbalize that. so i'd walk out the door brooding, giving her the evil eye...me and my comb-over. and she felt so badly about it. what a little sh!t i was.

Haha, my dad was exactly the same!

And yes, it’s a dark day when we have to reckon with our childhood selves. No matter how much work I do on myself I still sometimes speak with my mothers voice.

[Matthew]

Keri and Carter from Unsafe Space interview Konstantin Kisin in their series Deprogrammed. Keri is a self-confessed as she puts it 'ex-SJW'. She says (for her) it was a belief system and an ideology.

Keri is saying her channel is becoming more popular, she thinks because the level of SJW (Keri's words) has gotten more intense.

Possibly vaguely on-topic. I'm not sure. Anyway, here it is

xhDRNx-9LRY