Communism (and China)

[Gemma13]

Starting this thread to continue dialogue that sprang up on Page 2 of this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111418-Mainstream-Sportscasters-Waking-Up&p=1364852&viewfull=1#post1364852

Justjane expressed she is a supporter of marxism/communism (economics) and has responded to questions about the tenets of communism she favours and why, or rather, how this would make our society better.

[Gemma13]

Transferring relevant posts from the other thread.




...

Actually, this isn’t true at all. Social organisations are not the same as churches, and they do lead to real world changes. The feminist and labour movements of old brought enormous change to our lives and communities.

.

Except that labour and feminine movements are movements ... not organizations. (and I'd say the jury is still out on who really promoted the feminists movements and who gained the most from the way it was implemented - to my main point)

blm as a movement driven by the public? :thumbsup:

BLM as an organization? :thumbsdown:

All movements are driven by organisations. Without organisations driving them, movements lose momentum. The feminist, labour and civil rights movements all had organisations supporting them and pushing them forward.

What you all seem to be objecting to is who is funding these organisations and what you think their agenda is. If it’s not clear, I’m in full support of a Marxist, communist agenda, and I fully recognise that systems sometimes need to be destroyed to be rebuilt and sometimes that can lead to violence especially when people try all other means and have not been heard. I also think it’s about time the US experienced just a small taste of what it is they’ve dished out to the rest of the world.

I objected so strongly to what Mike posted here because I was also following the systemic racism thread and I found many of his responses there problematic and indicative of deeper, underlying issues but I’m happy for Mike to correct me. I just don’t want to be continually drawn into the same issues.

Black Americans have a tough time in the US. There are systemic issues that support that. They’ve tried various means to address this issue most of which have been unsuccessful. Black Lives Matter as a movement or an organisation provides them a platform to collectivise and be heard. That that cause could be infiltrated by people with nefarious agendas or become corrupted is a part of life, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a right to exist, to be supported or to try to address the issues they are concerned with.

I think some of us need to grow up and recognise that nothing is going to unfold perfectly or in accordance with our wishes or how we would do things or think they should be done. Sometimes we need to recognise that trade offs need to happen and hope that the good which can be achieved can outweigh the bad.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



So we support black lives matter until they start to organise?

Noted.Wow, are you [sometimes!] pointed and sarcastic. :heart:

No, that's not what that meant.

Nah, I’m just Australian. We call it what it is 😂 but super glad to hear it. Hope I’ve articulated myself better in my other post!


Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.



Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.

Hi Gemma,

Communism speaks for itself and I don’t have the time or the wherewithal to write an essay which is what would be required to give due justice to this topic but I will do my best to encapsulate my position.

Communism is one of the only economic models which actually takes into the consideration the needs of its people and seeks to achieve equity for all. The old adage, ‘from each according to his ability, to each according to his need’, represents the fundamental tenet of the model.

It is also one of the only economic model that doesn’t have materiality and perpetual and unsustainable economic growth as one of its core functions. It uses technocratic principles to determine the needs of a society and distribute resources accordingly.

Unfortunately, communism requires a level of maturity and compassion which most people do not possess in order to function optimally in our society which is a shame.


Hi Jane, I can't resist the urge to wade into this thread and offer my perspective as a long-time Avalon member who doesn't take himself or anything else very seriously (apart from raising global consciousness, astrology and the whole UFO thing hehehe).

First off, for many if not all the forum members, this is a judgement free-zone - it really does not matter to us if you are a communist or whatever-ist. We are all on a learning journey during each incarnation on earth, and having a strongly held belief system is often part of that learning journey. To add my perspective (maybe this is where Ernie is coming from, although I wouldn't try and speak for him), after you have been on the rollercoaster ride for a while (as Bill Hicks would put it - www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzQuE1pR1w - well worth 2 minutes of everyone's time) there comes an understanding that belief systems are not, in a certain sense, actually real. It's just a ride...

Second (again my perspective), communism is a materialist (meaning non-spiritual) 19th century ideology very similar to Darwinism. It has no applicability in the 21st century and all previous attempts to implement it have failed disastrously. I hope that you are not going to say that it has never really been tried, hehehe.

Avalon is all about a diversity of perspectives. Not about being right or wrong, but about learning from each other. There are very many wise members (not referring to myself hahaha).



This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.



Praxis, what are we going to do with you? You're just not quite smart enough to realize how dumb you sound. I don't know how you got out of your room, but if you follow the voices of those nice people in the white lab coats they'll guide you right back to your bed. Take the medicine. It's good.

I'm not a fan of censorship. But I regard any post or thread supporting communism and/or marxism as being on par with a post or thread supporting the flat earth. How to handle that? I don't know. Maybe a sub-forum for people who refuse to google stuff and read about it for at least 30 seconds

Jane, you are clearly articulate and intelligent. And you seem kind. I want to agree with Cognitive Dissonant here and welcome your views unreservedly, but I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or serious at this point. Communism? Marxism? How can you possibly make that argument with a straight face? I can't believe I'm saying this, but perhaps you should start a thread on all that. It may drive me crazy but you'll be making Praxis a very happy man



Hi Jane, I can't resist the urge to wade into this thread and offer my perspective as a long-time Avalon member who doesn't take himself or anything else very seriously (apart from raising global consciousness, astrology and the whole UFO thing hehehe).

First off, for many if not all the forum members, this is a judgement free-zone - it really does not matter to us if you are a communist or whatever-ist. We are all on a learning journey during each incarnation on earth, and having a strongly held belief system is often part of that learning journey. To add my perspective (maybe this is where Ernie is coming from, although I wouldn't try and speak for him), after you have been on the rollercoaster ride for a while (as Bill Hicks would put it - www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzQuE1pR1w - well worth 2 minutes of everyone's time) there comes an understanding that belief systems are not, in a certain sense, actually real. It's just a ride...

Second (again my perspective), communism is a materialist (meaning non-spiritual) 19th century ideology very similar to Darwinism. It has no applicability in the 21st century and all previous attempts to implement it have failed disastrously. I hope that you are not going to say that it has never really been tried, hehehe.

Avalon is all about a diversity of perspectives. Not about being right or wrong, but about learning from each other. There are very many wise members (not referring to myself hahaha).

Communism isn’t a belief system, it’s an economic model, all economic models are ‘not real’. Communism hasn’t ever been applied. And even if it were, it can’t be applied in a globalised system where the majority of the world follows a completely different economic model. I used materialist in the context of being concerned with material possessions. Communism is applicable at any time but requires a level of spiritual awakening that would not be possible at this time so I take your point there.

And sure, the world isn’t real but we sure as **** have to live here so we might as well do something with our time while we’re here.




This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.



Praxis, what are we going to do with you? You're just not quite smart enough to realize how dumb you sound. I don't know how you got out of your room, but if you follow the voices of those nice people in the white lab coats they'll guide you right back to your bed. Take the medicine. It's good.

...

Jane, you are clearly articulate and intelligent. And you seem kind.

You're clearly not. Mike, for everything that you think you know about the US, the establishment, the elite, whatever, WHY WHY WHY, have they sought to make such a demon out of communism??? Is it really just coincidence that that’s the one thing you just magically happen to agree with the controllers on 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️





This Forum is a parody of itself now.

You all claim to be these woke people yet as I just watch from the sideline, you are all just as much driven by the MSM as the so called sheep.

People here actually take Rupert Murdoch Propaganda agency seriously here and it blows my mind. Tucker carlson was actually given a shout out for being a good source if you can believe that.

You all just take the MSM topics and regurgitate it here. Dont you all think it is interesting that the main topic threads are driven by the same headlines in the MSM?

If you are talking about the same topics as them, then they have won even if you dont watch or engage them. The mere fact that the topic is dictated and you accept it is super telling.

JustJane. I applaud you standing out and speaking your beliefs in the face of the things you get here.

A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.



Praxis, what are we going to do with you? You're just not quite smart enough to realize how dumb you sound. I don't know how you got out of your room, but if you follow the voices of those nice people in the white lab coats they'll guide you right back to your bed. Take the medicine. It's good.

...

Jane, you are clearly articulate and intelligent. And you seem kind.

You're clearly not. Mike, for everything that you think you know about the US, the establishment, the elite, whatever, WHY WHY WHY, have they sought to make such a demon out of communism??? Is it really just coincidence that that’s the one thing you just magically happen to agree with the controllers on 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️



There's no magic to it. Just a certain level of sanity you seem to be lacking.

WHY WHY WHY won't you just google it? Here's some key words: "Stalin". "Mao"


Communism isn't a belief system? Wow. If that's your baseline understanding then I'm not sure much can be done for you, particularly when all of history and virtually everything going on in the world today suggests otherwise. Oh, but that's not real communism, I forgot. Every sociopath says that! If only you were the one running things, then it would work wonderfully, right? Of course.

Communism has been the religion of every country it has ever been applied in. More accurately, a cult. It is a fervently held belief system. And now it's doing the same in the US, all under the guise of social justice.

This has been covered here about 5,000,000 times already in the last few months. If you want to explain how JustJane communism would be any different than every other form of communism that has ever existed and exists today, I'm all ears! It just amuses me that you can hold this belief and still call me the arrogant one!:) But please, go on. The floor is all yours

[Justjane]

Thanks Gemma, but I’m not giving any more energy to this. It’s up to people to do their own research, the chips will fall where they will, seems most here have decided their position anyway.

[Bill Ryan]

seems most here have decided their position anyway.Jane, one thing that stands out in many of your posts is the passive (and sometimes active!) aggression. You're unlikely ever to find another platform of open debate where you'll encounter so many genuinely informed and intelligent people who are willing to listen to you and engage.

Beware of tarring everyone with one simplistic brush. You're in danger of alienating the very people you seem to want to talk with. Does that really make a lot of sense?

[norman]

Leaving ideology right out of it, communism is monolithic capitalism. Debt based central banking is monolithic capitalism.


Are they in a winner/loser conflict, or are they on the brink of a long planned full merger ?

[TomKat]

In big government, whether termed communistic or fascistic, bureaus are all-important. Distribution of benefits is a matter of WHO YOU KNOW. For instance, if there were a pandemic shutting down small businesses, and the government decided to dole out money to those business, the bureaus would make sure that all the money went to those with connections. Sound familiar? :-)

There's no solution but small government, anti-monopoly laws and limits on inheritance.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up



No!

Because we recognize the truth of what you say but also see a higher purpose you have yet to experience - or understand.

And what would that be Ernie?

This:

Thanks Gemma, but I’m not giving any more energy to this. It’s up to people to do their own research, the chips will fall where they will, seems most here have decided their position anyway. Do you see?
Who actually has decided what?

[Ernie Nemeth]

In a scarcity paradigm, communism is a seemingly necessary response to sharing the little we have.

In fact, we are not poor, but beggared. Institutionally beggared.

Although our monetary system is to blame, it is truly a story of available energy per capita.

As Wade maintains, all other topics merely hack at the branches.

The fact that there are right now advanced sequestered technologies held in secret is not widely known. This is where the focus should be. It would take so little to unveil an entirely new series of devices and machines that would revolutionize our world if only we could unite. To force disclosure requires well informed citizens not easily swayed by the divisive nature of the current narrative.

If and when these technologies are brought to the average person all talk of 'ism's will become a moot point. Everyone will be free like never before. Free to determine their own future. Free to hold their own opinion. Free to experience anything imaginable anywhere in the universe!

No more movements designed to divide and no more organizations that seek to persuade but not to enlighten in their endless attempt to promote their agenda.

[Matthew]

I just checked here (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/) (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/), and Project Avalon forum is accessible from mainland China. You can even view this forum from Inner Mongolia.

Twitter is blocked, Parler is not blocked. YouTube is blocked. www.infowars.com is not blocked, nor is davidicke.com blocked.

Most of the websites I care about are not blocked by Communist China, but some are. Not as bad as I was expecting but it's still too much censorship for me to consider communism 'working'. I'm with the people Hong Kong on this one

[Cognitive Dissident]

seems most here have decided their position anyway.Jane, one thing that stands out in many of your posts is the passive (and sometimes active!) aggression. You're unlikely ever to find another platform of open debate where you'll encounter so many genuinely informed and intelligent people who are willing to listen to you and engage.

Beware of tarring everyone with one simplistic brush. You're in danger of alienating the very people you seem to want to talk with. Does that really make a lot of sense?

No worries Bill, she hasn't alienated me, I was born alienated hehehe.

As Jane replied to my earlier post, I can respond to that:

"Communism isn’t a belief system, it’s an economic model, all economic models are ‘not real’. Communism hasn’t ever been applied. And even if it were, it can’t be applied in a globalised system where the majority of the world follows a completely different economic model. I used materialist in the context of being concerned with material possessions. Communism is applicable at any time but requires a level of spiritual awakening that would not be possible at this time so I take your point there.

And sure, the world isn’t real but we sure as **** have to live here so we might as well do something with our time while we’re here."

Economic model/belief system: same thing - it's a way of understanding the world. But as Marx said, the point is not to interpret the world, but to change it. We understand each other well enough so far.

Materialist - I specifically said "non-spiritual" so that you would see I wasn't referring to material possessions. You understand that Marxism doesn't believe in the soul, spiritual energy, reincarnation, god - not even astrology! As Marx said, religion is the opium of the people, which may well have been correct when he wrote it (now it is more like consumerism which is the opium of the people) but by rejecting all spirituality he is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Marxist understanding of human nature is woefully incomplete. Do you agree with that?

About communism as a political system, are you aware that those few people in the modern world who profess to believe in communism all say that it hasn't been tried? In my original post I specifically said - I hope you weren't going to say that - and then you said that! Are you trying to troll us, or have you just no idea of the context? (BTW: still not upset or alienated).

Communism, in the sense of the political system developed by Marx and first implemented by Lenin, has been tried many times, and every time has ended in failure (possible exception: Cuba, but even that has quite a few issues - I'm not an expert here, just trying to be fair minded). And communism has always existing alongside/in conflict with a global capitalist system. Would you prefer that the global economic system put itself "on hold" to allow some country to try to implement "real communism"? I don't even - I can't even...

Communism has the appeal of purity, of something to wholeheartedly believe in. Fine, but that is a psychological comfort blanket. It is not reality. Welcome to Avalon - this is reality, but nobody has a monopoly on the truth.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Communism won't make anything better. It probably works quite smoothly on paper as an idealistic, egalitarian, utopian concept, but it does not work. The jury's in, the verdict out, case closed. It doesn't work. Because it ends up going hand-in-hand, EVERY SINGLE TIME it's been attempted, with Totalitarianism. And uncountable deaths. Those were the findings, those were the conclusions, and that was the end of the debate. So what are we even talking about here?

Communism has proven itself very very very very very comprehensively the most disastrous (and murderous) political/economic model to ever emerge from the bowels of human thought. The death count alone shows that. Even in the mildest sense you have a complete loss of personal freedom, which I personally hold to be sacrosanct. Communism destroys freedom of individuality and freedom of speech by its very definition, and freedom of ownership, freedom of enterprise, and freedom of movement. The list goes on. We were all well-schooled in the mechanics (and horrors) of communism back in the day. My friends and peers learned all about it, because my teachers taught it. Is it taught no longer? Back in the 70s and 80s if one was to proclaim they were a communist, it would be like today saying one was a Nazi. I'm being dead serious. Because what communism IS was once well-understood. Obviously it isn't any longer.

The only people who EVER speak in favour of communism clearly know nothing about the history - they have never lived in or have experienced the regime for themselves. One has to ask, has the 20th century been forgotten? Is history being erased by schools and colleges? Nothing would surprise me now. Every government of this type ends either in bankruptcy, revolution, or genocide. That's the bottom line. Is that conveniently absent from the present day curriculum? Many young people of course weren't even alive in the 20th century, so if they didn't live it and now aren't being taught about it, they just won't know. They may think they know, but I would say they've been fooled by propaganda, by bullsh!t. But they won't know the reality.

A history lesson.

TsUE1k98frQ

I already hear claims of "that wasn't real communism". Well that is certainly bollocks.

HXBjVau1w7Y

This is also an excellent talk and has many relevant points.

-ix4MQpz6BA

[Mike]

Star Mariner, I'd like to give you a hug:)

Great post there. Kids really aren't being taught about things like Stalinist Russia and Maoist China. They see something like communism and it looks superficially sensible and compassionate on paper, but they've not a clue what happens when it's applied in the real world. And part of the reason is because this communist/marxism has been married with a postmodernism that disputes the very idea of anything being objectively real to begin with. It's a philosophy that disputes logic, and common sense, and by doing so is free to make as less sense as possible while weaponizing the emotions of mostly young, naive people who are genuinely appalled with suffering in the world and desperately want to help but aren't sophisticated enough yet to know they're being exploited.

And it doesn't help when they get to university and these idiot Marxist professors are shoving this crap down their throats.

Anyway, thanks for your refreshing sanity and beautifully written post.

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:
This is Communism from the perspective of a Korean man that moved from (before north and south Korea separated to Russia) He was from the North and moved to Russia.
When Stalin decided anyone who wasn't worthy of being Russian he was put on a train in the middle of the night with hundreds of others and 4 days later the doors opened and they were thrown off the train. I asked him where were you and he told me: We had NO IDEA where we were!
I asked him what they ate and he told me grass because there was NO food.
Now to jump ahead to 2002. This man was 91 years old and lived in Uzbekistan as a Korean Soviet..
I asked him through a translator ( my wife ) do you like democracy? He told me he Hated it!
As he continued he told me under communism everyone was equal. Same apartment. Same food. Same clothes. Same car. Same everything. Everyone was the same in this sense. What you believed was the same. Etc. Etc.
No theft etc because you would just get more of the same.

When democracy came in and everyone was supposedlyl free I would walk down the street and the gangs which we didn't have under communism would want money and if I had say 10 dollars they would beat me up! Take my 10 bucks and throw me in the dumpster.
Which one would you like Communism or democracy?
After all that had happened to this man in Communism he told me he would still pick Communism.

[DeDukshyn]

Daniel Schmachtenberger always has a way to elegantly break down and explain things for maximum understanding .... Here he is on the "left vs right" debate, which can be extrapolated to understanding the capitalism vs communism debate.

He explains the problems with both styles of thinking ...

Well worth the 10 minutes:
tNO_3JFLVUc

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Which one would you like Communism or democracy?


Millions and millions of corpses would say democracy.

[Wind]

Capitalism has failed us, that much is sure. Communism didn't work either even though it was never fully implemented as intended.

We are still living in scarcity model which only benefits the few at the expense of everyone else. We would need something far better (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity_economy).

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[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Put it this way. Democracy means that as a sovereign individual you have the freedom and opportunity to become more than you are, in fact anything you want to be. What's more, you have the power to not only choose the style of the regime and the personnel in that regime, but the power to change it by electoral process. Communism means you are a drone, a slave, with no freedom or opportunity to forge your own destiny, to become anything more than a drone or a slave. You lack any say or any power whatsoever to change or affect the regime, or even criticize it. I can think of no system more anti-human than this.

The faults and failings in the west are less the faults and failings of our democratic model than profligacy and immorality that naturally manifests in any human enterprise. No one wants gangs roaming the streets that chancy mentioned, but that is a testament of corruption in the system, not the system itself. Democracy isn't perfect, no way, because human beings are involved and human beings aren't perfect. But as a model, as a principle, democracy allows for human individuality, human growth, and human potential. Communism smothers it. Communism deletes it.

[araucaria]

This is a topic that I have discussed repeatedly on this forum over the years. I am gratified to see Daniel Schmachtenberger added to the discussion. He says many things more eloquently than I ever could, and in the oral medium preferred by many. We need more on this:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109031-Humanity-s-Phase-Shift-Daniel-Schmachtenberger&p=1331295&viewfull=1#post1331295

I am also gratified to see Terence McKenna quoted, whom I recently discussed here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111172-Were-the-Mayans-correct-after-all&p=1361806&viewfull=1#post1361806

In addition, there is a recent Right-Left dichotomy thread, to which I contributed here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111305-The-Right-Left-dichotomy-false-simplistic-manipulative.&p=1362858&viewfull=1#post1362858

[norman]

Communism means you are a drone, a slave, with no freedom or opportunity to forge your own destiny, to become anything more than a drone or a slave. You lack any say or any power whatsoever to change or affect the regime, or even criticize it. I can think of no system more anti-human than this.




I guess then, if they are smart, they won't call it communism when they complete their fully automated technocracy that converts 'democratic' control by the most brainwashed mass to control by the most effectively brainwashing algorithm running checkbox choices as a substitute for identity politically suicided sovereign individual beings.

They might even get away with calling it a corporate mission statement once the corporate social score system has removed all trace of decent.

It's completely nuts, to think of communism and corporate capitalism as opposites. They are exactly the same thing painted up in different livery. Early experimental communism lacked the complete and overt hookup to directly targeted lines of credit extended down from the 'upper floor' of the fake money banking sorcery. They've come a long way now though. It's all in place. They must have been absolutely gutted when Orange Man said "enough is enough". Especially when it fully sunk in that their useful idiots really were idiots.

[Kamikaze]

delete it all.

[AutumnW]

I just checked here (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/) (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/), and Project Avalon forum is accessible from mainland China. You can even view this forum from Inner Mongolia.

Twitter is blocked, Parler is not blocked. YouTube is blocked. www.infowars.com is not blocked, nor is davidicke.com blocked.

Most of the websites I care about are not blocked by Communist China, but some are. Not as bad as I was expecting but it's still too much censorship for me to consider communism 'working'. I'm with the people Hong Kong on this one

Yoyoyo,,

I think Jane is advancing Communism as an economic model, not authoritarianism or totalitarianism. There IS a difference. The Canadian government is currently looking at a universal basic income, as an ongoing response following from the pandemic. It will not allow for any more than a subsistence level of survival and those who want to enjoy a higher standard of living will have to find work...if they can. That's the issue...if they can. With technology and automation eating jobs, and now over 50% of service industry jobs gone (never to return) we have to, as a country, find a humane way to deal with the problems we are facing.

A person can rightly claim that work is absolutely necessary as it gives our lives meaning and structure. Others can rightfully claim that underpaying jobs in the service industry, (the only expanding part of the economy in the last decade), subtract meaning and tie many up in cycles of despair.

I see it as a complex but solvable problem, where those with a basic income will be free to do volunteer work and pursue their dreams, outside of the current economic model.

So, China...no. Russia...no. Higher taxes on the wealthy...yes. It is inevitable unless they want to live in a society where they themselves suffer in other ways due to desperation of the masses.

[Matthew]

I just checked here (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/) (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/), and Project Avalon forum is accessible from mainland China. You can even view this forum from Inner Mongolia.

Twitter is blocked, Parler is not blocked. YouTube is blocked. www.infowars.com is not blocked, nor is davidicke.com blocked.

Most of the websites I care about are not blocked by Communist China, but some are. Not as bad as I was expecting but it's still too much censorship for me to consider communism 'working'. I'm with the people Hong Kong on this one

Yoyoyo,,

I think Jane is advancing Communism as an economic model, not authoritarianism or totalitarianism. There IS a difference. ...

I see. I think of one as a welfare state, and the other as communism. Words are good like that

[Baby Steps]

there is an opportunity on this thread for some thoughtful people to express what they think about this very powerful model- communism. why waste that? is it more important to silence people who think differently or try to empathise with their views as a learning experience.

As memories of previous communisms fade in the minds of the young, isnt it extra important to get how people are thinking about this - now? Why? because it will be part of tomorrow.

Tempted to let fly in a rhetorical pro communist rant just to bring some balance

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The system AutumnW describes sounds very similar to what was tried in the UK in the 70s. Huge unemployment, welfare dependence, a total union stranglehold on industry, and social decay. Taxing the wealthy only led to the inevitable brain drain, too. The UK is still paying for that to this day. In short, it was a complete disaster. I remember it, and lived through it. And it was precisely this 'socialist experiment' in Britain that led to the Margaret Thatcher years, beginning with her landslide victory in 1979. The least terrible result you can hope for, and it WILL happen, is a massive right-wing backlash at the end of it. Believe me.

What is so often touted as bright, new political ideas are not that at all. They're old ideas. They've been tried and tested before, and they failed before.

I am pretty tired of hearing about the constant left wing/right wing meta-narrative to be honest, because neither side holds the grand, unifying solution for humanity, even when applied with absolute moral precision.

I don't know how humanity will survive this century, much less progress beyond it. A massive global consciousness 'shift' is the only possibility I can see that has any chance of working. Political shifts, especially radical ones, always end in disaster. 'Radical' is the most terrifying word in the English language. If anyone understands one single thing about 20th century history, they should absolutely know that.

I think our best chance is to somehow abandon geopolitics and global economics entirely, entirely, and return to purer, more 'natural' living, existing at a smaller scale. A way focused more on cooperation and community. And I don't mean we should all become agrarians and luddites, but adopt a simpler, certainly more spiritual life. How we even begin to achieve that, especially with dark Orwellian forces standing in our way, I have no idea at all.

[AutumnW]

Star Mariner,

I hear what you are saying. We had the same dynamics in Canada, in the seventies but...nobody starved.

We no longer have unions and they won't be coming back unless robots get together and strike.

In Canada a brain drain is unlikely. The wealthy, should they decide to escape, have to worry about where to escape to, at this point. Countries that opt for status quo as people literally begin to starve, en masse, will not be safe to live in for the wealthy. Kidnappings skyrocket. Crime of all kinds... so no. That won't happen.

A Communitarian model, based around simpler living in rural yeoman communities, much like the shire in Lord of the Rings, is SO appealing. And part of the work needed there would simply be some very easy agricultural reform (at least here in Canada) where intentional communities based on this model are not regulated out of existence, or not allowed, in the first place.

We'll get there yet. Old systems have to be overhauled and they will be, because they HAVE to be.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




I just checked here (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/) (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/), and Project Avalon forum is accessible from mainland China. You can even view this forum from Inner Mongolia.

Twitter is blocked, Parler is not blocked. YouTube is blocked. www.infowars.com is not blocked, nor is davidicke.com blocked.

Most of the websites I care about are not blocked by Communist China, but some are. Not as bad as I was expecting but it's still too much censorship for me to consider communism 'working'. I'm with the people Hong Kong on this one

Yoyoyo,,

I think Jane is advancing Communism as an economic model, not authoritarianism or totalitarianism. There IS a difference. ...

I see. I think of one as a welfare state, and the other as communism. Words are good like that

Wordism. Just can't escape it!:clapping:

[Matthew]

Communism and a free market with a welfare state are totally different things. It's not useful to confuse them to be the same, when the two things have their own distinct problems in each's wake

[Justjane]

seems most here have decided their position anyway.Jane, one thing that stands out in many of your posts is the passive (and sometimes active!) aggression. You're unlikely ever to find another platform of open debate where you'll encounter so many genuinely informed and intelligent people who are willing to listen to you and engage.

Beware of tarring everyone with one simplistic brush. You're in danger of alienating the very people you seem to want to talk with. Does that really make a lot of sense?

Wow, you have members who call other members dumb or sociopaths and that’s fine and dandy but you call out this 🤦🏻‍♀️

This isn’t passive aggression, it’s an observation based on the thousands of conversations I’ve read here, and which has been proven correct through this thread.

I’m not here to convert the masses or educate anyone or preach the word. People need to arrive at their own conclusions. I’ll put forward the odd argument or challenge faulty thinking here and there but I don’t have time, and I don’t think anyone would, to painstakingly address every idea from every person who comments here.

I’m currently on break. Commenting yesterday took up the majority of my day.

I’m here to find like minded people, I’m not wasting any more of my time on convincing people individually. I’ve been doing that for 30 years and it has gone exactly nowhere.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up



No!

Because we recognize the truth of what you say but also see a higher purpose you have yet to experience - or understand.

And what would that be Ernie?

This:

Thanks Gemma, but I’m not giving any more energy to this. It’s up to people to do their own research, the chips will fall where they will, seems most here have decided their position anyway. Do you see?
Who actually has decided what?

Those that commented thousands of times against communism.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Communism won't make anything better. It probably works quite smoothly on paper as an idealistic, egalitarian, utopian concept, but it does not work. The jury's in, the verdict out, case closed. It doesn't work. Because it ends up going hand-in-hand, EVERY SINGLE TIME it's been attempted, with Totalitarianism. And uncountable deaths. Those were the findings, those were the conclusions, and that was the end of the debate. So what are we even talking about here?

Communism has proven itself very very very very very comprehensively the most disastrous (and murderous) political/economic model to ever emerge from the bowels of human thought. The death count alone shows that. Even in the mildest sense you have a complete loss of personal freedom, which I personally hold to be sacrosanct. Communism destroys freedom of individuality and freedom of speech by its very definition, and freedom of ownership, freedom of enterprise, and freedom of movement. The list goes on. We were all well-schooled in the mechanics (and horrors) of communism back in the day. My friends and peers learned all about it, because my teachers taught it. Is it taught no longer? Back in the 70s and 80s if one was to proclaim they were a communist, it would be like today saying one was a Nazi. I'm being dead serious. Because what communism IS was once well-understood. Obviously it isn't any longer.

The only people who EVER speak in favour of communism clearly know nothing about the history - they have never lived in or have experienced the regime for themselves. One has to ask, has the 20th century been forgotten? Is history being erased by schools and colleges? Nothing would surprise me now. Every government of this type ends either in bankruptcy, revolution, or genocide. That's the bottom line. Is that conveniently absent from the present day curriculum? Many young people of course weren't even alive in the 20th century, so if they didn't live it and now aren't being taught about it, they just won't know. They may think they know, but I would say they've been fooled by propaganda, by bullsh!t. But they won't know the reality.

A history lesson.

TsUE1k98frQ

I already hear claims of "that wasn't real communism". Well that is certainly bollocks.

HXBjVau1w7Y

This is also an excellent talk and has many relevant points.

-ix4MQpz6BA

I think you’re confusing communism with totalitarianism.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Thanks Gemma, but I’m not giving any more energy to this. It’s up to people to do their own research, the chips will fall where they will, seems most here have decided their position anyway.

As the thread was all about you... well...

Agent provocateur. Infiltration, Discord, Phycological games. I'll leave it at that. Well done.

And yet I didn’t start it, so 💁🏻‍♀️ This conversation started as a personal statement on my behalf so that people could understand where I was coming from and why. It divulged into something else that was not my intention and not something I needed to pursue. But thanks for the judgment.

[Justjane]

The system AutumnW describes sounds very similar to what was tried in the UK in the 70s. Huge unemployment, welfare dependence, a total union stranglehold on industry, and social decay. Taxing the wealthy only led to the inevitable brain drain, too. The UK is still paying for that to this day. In short, it was a complete disaster. I remember it, and lived through it. And it was precisely this 'socialist experiment' in Britain that led to the Margaret Thatcher years, beginning with her landslide victory in 1979. The least terrible result you can hope for, and it WILL happen, is a massive right-wing backlash at the end of it. Believe me.

What is so often touted as bright, new political ideas are not that at all. They're old ideas. They've been tried and tested before, and they failed before.

I am pretty tired of hearing about the constant left wing/right wing meta-narrative to be honest, because neither side holds the grand, unifying solution for humanity, even when applied with absolute moral precision.

I don't know how humanity will survive this century, much less progress beyond it. A massive global consciousness 'shift' is the only possibility I can see that has any chance of working. Political shifts, especially radical ones, always end in disaster. 'Radical' is the most terrifying word in the English language. If anyone understands one single thing about 20th century history, they should absolutely know that.

I think our best chance is to somehow abandon geopolitics and global economics entirely, entirely, and return to purer, more 'natural' living, existing at a smaller scale. A way focused more on cooperation and community. And I don't mean we should all become agrarians and luddites, but adopt a simpler, certainly more spiritual life. How we even begin to achieve that, especially with dark Orwellian forces standing in our way, I have no idea at all.

This didn’t happen in Australia either. And I’m not sure it even happened in the UK. Australia during this period implemented free healthcare, free university education, free legal aid, instituted a liveable social support system and thrived.

[Justjane]

I just checked here (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/) (https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/), and Project Avalon forum is accessible from mainland China. You can even view this forum from Inner Mongolia.

Twitter is blocked, Parler is not blocked. YouTube is blocked. www.infowars.com is not blocked, nor is davidicke.com blocked.

Most of the websites I care about are not blocked by Communist China, but some are. Not as bad as I was expecting but it's still too much censorship for me to consider communism 'working'. I'm with the people Hong Kong on this one

Yoyoyo,,

I think Jane is advancing Communism as an economic model, not authoritarianism or totalitarianism. There IS a difference. The Canadian government is currently looking at a universal basic income, as an ongoing response following from the pandemic. It will not allow for any more than a subsistence level of survival and those who want to enjoy a higher standard of living will have to find work...if they can. That's the issue...if they can. With technology and automation eating jobs, and now over 50% of service industry jobs gone (never to return) we have to, as a country, find a humane way to deal with the problems we are facing.

A person can rightly claim that work is absolutely necessary as it gives our lives meaning and structure. Others can rightfully claim that underpaying jobs in the service industry, (the only expanding part of the economy in the last decade), subtract meaning and tie many up in cycles of despair.

I see it as a complex but solvable problem, where those with a basic income will be free to do volunteer work and pursue their dreams, outside of the current economic model.

So, China...no. Russia...no. Higher taxes on the wealthy...yes. It is inevitable unless they want to live in a society where they themselves suffer in other ways due to desperation of the masses.

Twenty or so years from now the world will be a very very different place. Any career that can be automated will and the majority of them are situated within male dominated sectors, from mining, to factory work, to delivery, to finance. The only jobs that will survive are those that involve working with and managing people, the majority of which will be caring professions.

The very idea of work is going to be tipped on its head. We need to get out front of this before the controllers determine it for us.

Should be a fun time.

[norman]

Australia during this period implemented free healthcare, free university education, free legal aid, instituted a liveable social support system and thrived.





Did the IMF lend the country money for that ?

[AutumnW]

Norman, The IMF generally charges horrific interest rates or extracts promises of privatization of national resources as payment. You note that Jane said the country thrived. Once the IMF has its hooks into a country, they don't thrive.

[Kamikaze]

delete it all.

[Justjane]

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Thanks Gemma, but I’m not giving any more energy to this. It’s up to people to do their own research, the chips will fall where they will, seems most here have decided their position anyway.

As the thread was all about you... well...

Agent provocateur. Infiltration, Discord, Phycological games. I'll leave it at that. Well done.

And yet I didn’t start it, so 💁🏻‍♀️ This conversation started as a personal statement on my behalf so that people could understand where I was coming from and why. It divulged into something else that was not my intention and not something I needed to pursue. But thanks for the judgment.

I'm too familiar with your ideals living around it. It's not what you want to portray it as.
It's a dead system, something needing to be left behind, we don't need it implemented over and over again to see it fail over and over again.
Welcome to reality, ideals in the bin if I may please.
You fail to account for human nature. Or Nature at large at all with the view you want it to be.
I've seen it before and promoted before, I can't believe the "textbook" examples you deliver at every moment. If I may put the party line play book to the side, unless it's too far indoctrinated already?

It's like reading the party head talking seeing you post here. Promotional talk in it's entirety.
Incompetence creeps out from your peers. It gets sad to see people fail so often and so badly.
Ideals do not match reality, so stop peddling fantasy.

Credentials don't mean much if it's just a stamp on a paper. Education that lowers it's level of entry for a pass is a disaster. So when everyone walks around with their "Education" lambasting all others for their "ignorance" when what you know is false, dumb, even fabricated. Machined to match your ideals. You want to stand above others, that paper is your "gospel" allowing you to judge others.

Don't take it personal but this left view I've seen before, and it's the same as always. The sooner it's discarded the better for peoples lives it will be.
The most vile and abhorrent people I have known are in your peerage. The quality is abysmal, not people I want around me in any matter of life.

I don't like the right side you so are vehemently against, I've seen how they are. They are mostly imbeciles and dumb people from my personal interactions but they don't go about attacking people for their faults or seek problems where there aren't any.
The kind that have promoted the things you say in life have been evil in comparison, seeing faults and mayhem where there wasn't any. All for personal gratification.
I have nothing good to say of the Left side. I've seen it lived it and interacted with it every day of my life. Lets move on and put this system of yours into the dustbin of History where it belonged a century ago already. It's past it's time. We don't need another iteration.

That’s funny, because if you’d read my missives you would discover that I said it was human nature that would preclude communism from ever working, that until the world experienced a mass spiritual awakening, the entire movement would be dead.

But okay.

[Kamikaze]

delete it all.

[onawah]

A form of communism or perhaps better described as tribalism appears to have worked long ago when there were matrilineal cultures, and has worked in more modern indigenous tribes to some extent, I think.
The pioneering work of Marija Gimbutus is credited for discovering much about the inner workings of such societies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marija_Gimbutas
"Joseph Campbell and Ashley Montagu[20][21] each compared the importance of Marija Gimbutas's output to the historical importance of the Rosetta Stone in deciphering Egyptian hieroglyphs. Campbell provided a foreword to a new edition of Gimbutas's The Language of the Goddess (1989) before he died, and often said how profoundly he regretted that her research on the Neolithic cultures of Europe had not been available when he was writing The Masks of God. The ecofeminist Charlene Spretnak argued in 2011 that a "backlash" against Gimbutas's work had been orchestrated, starting in the last years of her life and following her death.[22]"

(AND SO OF COURSE...>:)
"Reception
Mainstream archaeology dismissed Gimbutas's later works.[23] Anthropologist Bernard Wailes (1934–2012) of the University of Pennsylvania commented to The New York Times that most of Gimbutas's peers[24] believe her to be "immensely knowledgeable but not very good in critical analysis. ... She amasses all the data and then leaps from it to conclusions without any intervening argument." He said that most archaeologists consider her to be an eccentric.[21]"

The conditions of such a truly communist culture would probably have had to depend upon it being isolated and self-sustaining, with no need for warfare.
The most important, agreed-upon focus would have had to be mutual cooperation in seeing that everyone's basic needs were met.
In those matrilineal cultures, land was said to have passed down from women to their female descendants.
Though in a truly communist or tribal society, the land would be considered to belong to everyone.
Since women generally are more cooperative, more nurturing and less competitive then men, it was probably easier to keep the peace when women had equal say in governance.
I would say this hasn't really been achieved as yet in more modern times, though no doubt some indigenous peoples have come close.
Though there is a movement now toward self-governing, sustainable intentional communities in which some of these ideals are being put in practice.
See: https://www.ic.org/start/
Just some observations.

[Justjane]

That’s funny, because if you’d read my missives you would discover that I said it was human nature that would preclude communism from ever working, that until the world experienced a mass spiritual awakening, the entire movement would be dead.

But okay.
Playing around huh. So why promote it? You already acknowledge it's fiction. Or you trying to change human nature? That the grand plan I'm missing? Like trying to break a law of nature.
Seems it not possible to have anything come out from you like others of your kind. Deflection, games and others. It's tiring going around in circles when trying to involve your kind.

Manipulation is a nature you love to invoke. <-that evil :heart:
I'll say no more, already said to much, never good to read stuff from you folks in a ill mood.

Dude,

Just stop. You weren’t in the original conversation. As I said, I offered information about myself to describe my position. I was then attacked for having such a position and the conversation devolved. I said then that I had no interest in discussing it further. I said here I didn’t have any interest in discussing it further and then you attacked me.

I’m done with this. Move along boy.

[AutumnW]

That’s funny, because if you’d read my missives you would discover that I said it was human nature that would preclude communism from ever working, that until the world experienced a mass spiritual awakening, the entire movement would be dead.

But okay.
Playing around huh. So why promote it? You already acknowledge it's fiction. Or you trying to change human nature? That the grand plan I'm missing? Like trying to break a law of nature.
Seems it not possible to have anything come out from you like others of your kind. Deflection, games and others. It's tiring going around in circles when trying to involve your kind.

Manipulation is a nature you love to invoke. <-that evil :heart:
I'll say no more, already said to much, never good to read stuff from you folks in a ill mood.

This is odd. What do you mean by "her kind" and also, what is your experience with Communism, you are in Sweden? Tell us more about that, so we understand why you have strong feelings about this.

[Gemma13]

There's been some extremely valuable contributions here and I think that's important for our awareness due to the up and coming generations being fed, or not fed, historical data that informs, influences and shapes their ideologies about where they are going to lead us.

Because whether we (older generations) like it or not our families future is in their hands.  And as has already been mentioned, I do believe this century is pivotal and critical for the human race on so many levels.

Can we all try hard to keep discussing the points made by members without the add-on personal slings because one doesn't agree with another.:happythumbsup:

[Justjane]

There's been some extremely valuable contributions here and I think that's important for our awareness due to the up and coming generations being fed, or not fed, historical data that informs, influences and shapes their ideologies about where they are going to lead us.

Because whether we (older generations) like it or not our families future is in their hands.  And as has already been mentioned, I do believe this century is pivotal and critical for the human race on so many levels.

Can we all try hard to keep discussing the points made by members without the add-on personal slings because one doesn't agree with another.:happythumbsup:

Can you explain what you mean by younger and older generations?

[shaberon]

Put it this way. Democracy means that as a sovereign individual you have the freedom and opportunity to become more than you are, in fact anything you want to be. What's more, you have the power to not only choose the style of the regime and the personnel in that regime, but the power to change it by electoral process.

Democracy means you are not a sovereign, you are a subject citizen. The facade of voting is the main method of Totalitarian Democracy. This is what most of us live in. Extreme example: Palestinians subjugated by Israel have the right to vote. Modest example: no representatives represent me, thanks for the choices.

Almost every country that was behind the Iron Curtain, and then gifted with Democracy, now, thirty years later, shows that a majority reject Democracy. That means more than 50%, and in Bulgaria, up to 86% want it to go away.

It is damn hard to get rid of.

Again, if we are going to say central banking is the spine of all these terrible governments, I only know of one actual successful legal retaliation to it, the American Revolution. In the cases of the few un-banked countries such as N. Korea, they were never under the shadow of the Bank of England, so whatever they have does not represent a revolt, but some surviving vestige of their own making.

Since our national anthem refers to the war of 1812, which was a British assault specifically about trying to get ahold of the then-national bank, it would be kind of nice if people would carry this meaning with it. What is the freaking fourth of July. But since then, we surrendered via the Democratic process, and so we are left as subjects to something totalitarian in nature which will sweep us out of our houses any time.

[Kamikaze]

delete it all.

[Kamikaze]

delete it all

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I think you’re confusing communism with totalitarianism.[COLOR="red"]


Well not really, the two go hand-in-hand, that's the problem. The reason for that is: humans. The wider the bureaucracy (which communism requires to function) the more powerful the state becomes, and the more powerful the state the steeper the tilt towards totalitarianism. That's exactly what history has shown, time and again. I'm not critiquing the political, social, or the economic 'theory' of communism, merely the trend it follows to final conclusion, which is implosion - into bankruptcy, insurgency and revolution, or at the far end of the scale genocide.

I think this is a very difficult discussion. Whatever merits there are "on paper" in the communist system, and there are some, they do not translate in reality. They just don't. The history proves it. Democracy doesn't work all that much better either, it too is different on paper than in reality, because of the exact same common denominators - invariably being elitism, the lust for power and the struggle for control. Our western democracies are waist deep in corruption, evil and greed. It's just a more behind the curtain type of totalitarianism. You may say then that capitalism is the problem. It isn't. It's still, and always, corruption, evil and greed in the system.

It was definitely not what the ancient Greeks had in mind when they formulated the first democracy, which they called "δημοκρατία", or demos-kratos meaning people-rule. For the first time it wrested power from the clutches of a despot, a king, and handed it to the people. I still believe it is the best model there is, having the most checks and balances to prevent abuse. Of course the 'elites' toil endlessly to navigate their way around those checks and balances and to stay hidden in the shadows -- but at least they keep to those shadows. We in the west have the very best of it compared to the rest of the world, perhaps the best in all human history, with the exception of ancient days when we lived in harmony alongside nature. In our modern, technologically sophisticated world, and with 7billion+ of us to look after, democracy - people-rule - is the best chance we have, if only the corrupt, the greedy, and the evil could be removed completely from the equation.

[norman]

If it fully arrives and takes over, I don't think the new corporate communism will go bankrupt like the early test models did by design ( kinda like a terminator gene to stop it getting out of control before the whole plan was ready for it ).

[Catsquotl]

Maybe we should give anarchy a try.
Seems more apt to live on earth. Most if not all animal species thrive wither and die in mother Earth's example.

Maybe there's something there..

[Bill Ryan]

Maybe we should give anarchy a try.
Right. Someone should try to organize that.

:)

[Gracy]

Maybe we should give anarchy a try.
Right. Someone should try to organize that.

:)

Ha Ha :lol:

[Catsquotl]

Well a few posts ago it was argued that any system is basically flawed. And for the most socialist i.e. communisme a totalitarian regime was mandatory. So we are settling for 2nd best. A weak simily of the democratic ideology corrupted by humans.
Which as was argued is the end of every existing ideology which comes to "power". So some cataclysmic event and the anarchy for a few 100 years with the survivors of the aftermath...

Who knows.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I agree about the anarchy thing. But I mean self-sovereignty, self-informed and self-motivated. For that to occur we need a few tools released from the magical treasure trove of goodies under wraps in black op projects even the presidents don't know about...

[Catsquotl]

Here's the ideology on paper.
A tad dated perhaps

AlexanderBerkman-ABCofAnarchism.pdf (https://libcom.org/files/AlexanderBerkman-ABCofAnarchism.pdf)

Alexander Berkman's ABC of Anarchism. 1929

[onawah]

Childhood's End
With the current chaos and lawlessness in cities, I am reminded of Arthur C. Clarke's masterpiece futuristic scifi novel, Childhood's End.
If you haven't read it, at the end of the story the children of the world are so disconnected from the rest of the populace that they gather together in a trance-like existence as one mind, used to do the bidding of the all-powerful Overmind which controls them.
Finally a huge column of flame appears and in Earth’s final moments in the year 2125, the planet evaporates, leaving no trace that it had ever existed.

I am reminded of that story because people, especially young people now, seem to have increasingly less appreciation of history and consequently little understanding of how the world really works.
They are so entranced and hardwired into their cell phones that they seem like they would be very easy prey to the takeover of AI.
In Childhood's End the "Final Solution" that the young arrive at for Earth is simply to vaporize it completely.

We can only wonder how many other worlds which, when they reach the point of being technologically able to destroy themselves or to create a Golden Age, end in destruction.
In Clarke's novel, it's the open arrival of an advanced ET race, The Overlords, that brings about a temporarily more ordered society on Earth, but in the end even the Overlords are helpless to stop them when the children of Earth become one with "The Overmind", something which the Overlords have been unable to do themselves.

If the Annunaki, as Sitchin and others have suggested, have been the Overlords of Earth (and perhaps still are to some degree, through their puppets here), and they are ruled by the Reptilians who are in turn ruled by AI, we can draw some parallels from the story to our own reality.
From what I have gathered, it's the Reptilians wish to genetically engineer a hybrid race that they can incarnate into that will provide them with the best traits of both races in order to jumpstart their own evolution, but the objective of AI seems to be simply to destroy organic life.
Which brings me to the question: is the Multi-Verse evolving, or simply revolving through endless cycles of creation and destruction?
Childhood's End brings that question into focus in a unique and very troubling way that is evocative of developments we are seeing in the world today.

How that relates to communism imho is that communism historically seems to discourage individuality and encourage conformity and people walking in lockstep, ie "hive mind"..
There will always be those who choose otherwise, and often they are the most creative and innovate minds which should be encouraged, not squelched.

[Justjane]

How that relates to communism imho is that communism historically seems to discourage individuality and encourage conformity and people walking in lockstep, ie "hive mind"..
There will always be those who choose otherwise, and often they are the most creative and innovate minds which should be encouraged, not squelched.

This isn’t true at all though. This is just what popular culture tells us. Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?

The timing of the application of communism last century meant most people were forced into factory work. The monotony of factory work actually lead to increased creativity.

[Constance]

Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

[Justjane]

Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Interesting. My ex partner is Lithuanian which was part of the USSR. He has a very different impression. I imagine that people have an entire range of experiences under various types of rule. My point is, we shouldn’t be generalising or taking our cues from popular culture.

[Catsquotl]

AkvPDx2qNjM

[Matthew]

We need to get rid of all the isms. They always seem to lead to violence

wzmujQ1yb1k

[spade]

Someone wise once told me this :

"The only time communism ever works is in the context of a nuclear family". - and he was right! I think it was designed that way.

All the children get a standardized allowance, and everything is a shared resource within the nuclear family. Beyond the family it is a little more difficult.

The furthest applications of communism also works for the military or in the context of a school where most of the students are of the same financial background in society.

Anything beyond these contexts of institutionalized implementation is a disaster waiting to happen. To apply it to whole nations is tyranny. China is horrific (all the wealth in concentrated into the CCP). Any talk against the CCP is directly flagged by AI as dissent on your phone and lowers your social credit score. Millions are unable to travel nowadays due to their social credit score. No doubt millions were culled under the context of coronavirus without having covid. too many thrown alive into the cremation chambers. Communism in full swinging action right before your eyes.

[Gracy]

No doubt millions were culled under the context of coronavirus without having covid. too many thrown alive into the cremation chambers. Communism in full swinging action right before your eyes.

It almost seems like a competition these days as to who is the world's biggest boogeyman, Russia or China.

This is a new one I've not heard before, that the "Chicoms" have been systematically disposing of unwanteds by throwing them alive into cremation chambers. Kinda reminds me of the lead up to the first Iraq war, the story of Saddam's troops supposedly throwing incubated babies on the floor, which was later shown to be totally untrue, but did it's intended job at the time by enraging the American public.

Do we have any evidence that this was going on in China? I've got a feeling it's more along the lines of the Russiagaters still unverified claims that Trump is a "Putin Puppet".

[Catsquotl]

]

It almost seems like a competition these days as to who is the world's biggest boogeyman, Russia or China.



I would happily add America to that list. Maybe a little less grotesk in terms of cremating living human beings, but the end result is pretty much the same.

[spade]

Hi gracy may - https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3881683
“Chinese woman describes Wuhan virus patients being burned alive
Video shows Chinese woman describe Wuhan coronavirus patients being stuffed into body bags and burned alive”

[AutumnW]

Maybe we should give anarchy a try.
Right. Someone should try to organize that.

:)

Damn, that's funny. It reminds me of the Association of Non-aligned Nations. Seriously. It's a thing!

[AutumnW]

Hi gracy may - https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3881683
“Chinese woman describes Wuhan virus patients being burned alive
Video shows Chinese woman describe Wuhan coronavirus patients being stuffed into body bags and burned alive”

I'm calling B.S. on this and a heads up on not using Taiwan as a source of information for what should be obvious reasons.

[AutumnW]

Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Interesting. My ex partner is Lithuanian which was part of the USSR. He has a very different impression. I imagine that people have an entire range of experiences under various types of rule. My point is, we shouldn’t be generalising or taking our cues from popular culture.

A good friend of mine grew up in Hungary. She says Communism was dull, but everybody had a job, a roof over their heads and many had a summer place out in the country.

¤=[Post Update]=¤





Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Sounds like an American prison.

[Matthew]

Hi gracy may - https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3881683
“Chinese woman describes Wuhan virus patients being burned alive
Video shows Chinese woman describe Wuhan coronavirus patients being stuffed into body bags and burned alive”

I'm calling B.S. on this and a heads up on not using Taiwan as a source of information for what should be obvious reasons.

It does sound too horrible to be true. It is hard to tell without independent journalism in China, and I could easily call a similar heads up about China's human rights record

:boink:

[AutumnW]

Yoyoyo,

I don't think, as Westerners we can know what their human rights record really is. Likely not great. But who are we comparing to. The human rights record of the U.S. is probably the worst in the world, both domestically and foreign affairs.

[Matthew]

Somehow we get counter-establishment news, and any murderous streak from our local governments.. well, in my case David Icke lived to publish books, so I'm not saying there's no problem but inde journalism, or whistleblowing is snuffed out in China more quickly by any account I can find

[Justjane]

Someone wise once told me this :

"The only time communism ever works is in the context of a nuclear family". - and he was right! I think it was designed that way.

All the children get a standardized allowance, and everything is a shared resource within the nuclear family. Beyond the family it is a little more difficult.

The furthest applications of communism also works for the military or in the context of a school where most of the students are of the same financial background in society.

Anything beyond these contexts of institutionalized implementation is a disaster waiting to happen. To apply it to whole nations is tyranny. China is horrific (all the wealth in concentrated into the CCP). Any talk against the CCP is directly flagged by AI as dissent on your phone and lowers your social credit score. Millions are unable to travel nowadays due to their social credit score. No doubt millions were culled under the context of coronavirus without having covid. too many thrown alive into the cremation chambers. Communism in full swinging action right before your eyes.

Any model can divulge into tyranny. What you’re describing is totalitarianism not communism.

And you know that China isn’t communist right? It has a stratified society. That should be the first giveaway....

¤=[Post Update]=¤







That’s funny, because if you’d read my missives you would discover that I said it was human nature that would preclude communism from ever working, that until the world experienced a mass spiritual awakening, the entire movement would be dead.

But okay.
Playing around huh. So why promote it? You already acknowledge it's fiction. Or you trying to change human nature? That the grand plan I'm missing? Like trying to break a law of nature.
Seems it not possible to have anything come out from you like others of your kind. Deflection, games and others. It's tiring going around in circles when trying to involve your kind.

Manipulation is a nature you love to invoke. <-that evil :heart:
I'll say no more, already said to much, never good to read stuff from you folks in a ill mood.

This is odd. What do you mean by "her kind" and also, what is your experience with Communism, you are in Sweden? Tell us more about that, so we understand why you have strong feelings about this.

Basically her posts reflected 100%, a mirror what the Head & Leader of the "LEFT" communists in this country talk about in their representation and political talk.

~snip~ [got a long winding post but deleted it]

They are not pleasant people to deal with in person.

You are scared to "SILENCE" because life is more convenient that way.
Don't make a hassle, period.

If you have them at a workplace you don't want to work alongside them. They will leave all the work for others to do and fix. They stall and waste time, getting nothing done while talking all nice about "ideals".
You have to do the work of 2x people with them involved.

My personal experience? I used to have to do this persons work and mine way to often when he up and went home because of some small sniffle or issue. And when he was present? Still had to do 1.5X work to get things done in time every day.

If a higher person in the echelons of these kind found wind of the political associations of the workforce I was in my last workplace there would be blood on the streets. Literally every person that went and did some time there would be in prison if they asked the Leader of the LEFT here. But that would be about a whole town of people, it's fun when the other half are their beloved immigrants and they take the locals side on the issues in general.

These "Nazis" work next back to back with the lefts beloved topic, immigrants in everyday life and cause no trouble but maybe not talking too much with each other. The issue? They are lazy and want them to talk their native language, they don't want to bother doing otherwise. Those who speak well are treated like their own.
You would be in amazement that the immigrants and the "right" have more in common in general than they have with the left around here.

Oh. So you had an experience with a person. We must all be the same then.

[Justjane]

I think you’re confusing communism with totalitarianism.[COLOR="red"]


Well not really, the two go hand-in-hand, that's the problem. The reason for that is: humans. The wider the bureaucracy (which communism requires to function) the more powerful the state becomes, and the more powerful the state the steeper the tilt towards totalitarianism. That's exactly what history has shown, time and again. I'm not critiquing the political, social, or the economic 'theory' of communism, merely the trend it follows to final conclusion, which is implosion - into bankruptcy, insurgency and revolution, or at the far end of the scale genocide.

I think this is a very difficult discussion. Whatever merits there are "on paper" in the communist system, and there are some, they do not translate in reality. They just don't. The history proves it. Democracy doesn't work all that much better either, it too is different on paper than in reality, because of the exact same common denominators - invariably being elitism, the lust for power and the struggle for control. Our western democracies are waist deep in corruption, evil and greed. It's just a more behind the curtain type of totalitarianism. You may say then that capitalism is the problem. It isn't. It's still, and always, corruption, evil and greed in the system.

It was definitely not what the ancient Greeks had in mind when they formulated the first democracy, which they called "δημοκρατία", or demos-kratos meaning people-rule. For the first time it wrested power from the clutches of a despot, a king, and handed it to the people. I still believe it is the best model there is, having the most checks and balances to prevent abuse. Of course the 'elites' toil endlessly to navigate their way around those checks and balances and to stay hidden in the shadows -- but at least they keep to those shadows. We in the west have the very best of it compared to the rest of the world, perhaps the best in all human history, with the exception of ancient days when we lived in harmony alongside nature. In our modern, technologically sophisticated world, and with 7billion+ of us to look after, democracy - people-rule - is the best chance we have, if only the corrupt, the greedy, and the evil could be removed completely from the equation.

They don’t go hand in hand. Totalitarian dictators have used communism to further their own ends. Totalitarian dictators generally use anything they can to further their own ends. Since communism seeks to support the people the most it’s not really a surprise that it has been used against said people.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


AkvPDx2qNjM

Love Noam Chomsky and love this vid. What he’s describing is anarcho communism.

[Constance]

Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Interesting. My ex partner is Lithuanian which was part of the USSR. He has a very different impression. I imagine that people have an entire range of experiences under various types of rule. My point is, we shouldn’t be generalising or taking our cues from popular culture.

A good friend of mine grew up in Hungary. She says Communism was dull, but everybody had a job, a roof over their heads and many had a summer place out in the country.

¤=[Post Update]=¤





Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Sounds like an American prison.

I can't comment on that because the only person I know from the USA who has done time (he was convicted of marijuana trafficking and possession) I lost contact with.

But no, it was Vietnam. In Australia, they were called, the "Boat people".

In 1989 when I visited Czechoslovakia, communism was just in the throws of being dismantled. These were my impressions and personal experiences whilst there.

Upon my first arriving by train into Prague, it was eerie standing on the platform. It wasn't like any other train platform that I had visited, not the usual hub bub my travelling eyes and ears were used to. It was hushed and quiet, even though it was busy. The atmosphere felt heavy and depressed. I felt like I had suddenly stepped into the twilight zone.

As soon as we had started to walk towards the exit, myself and others were surrounded by the local Czechs. All held up crudely written signs in english inviting us to stay with them. There was one woman in particular that caught my attention. She was a tiny slip of a woman. She was so eager to have us stay and pulled at my sleeve gently, her english non-existent. But we understood each other. She looked so ill and tired and worn out. My heart went out to her.

The person I was travelling with agreed with me that we should stay with her, and so we followed her. At one point, we were walking down one of the Old Town streets. Again I was struck by how busy it was on both sides of the street but how quiet it was! When we finally got to the womans house at the edge of the city, she warmly invited us in.

Her apartment was tiny and sparsely furnished. The furniture also looked tired and worn out. She was living in abject poverty. She showed us to our bedroom and we placed our things in there.
I soon realised that this was the only bedroom in the house and when she showed us the kitchen, there was a tiny cot in the corner of that tiny kitchen. That tiny cot was to be her bed whilst we stayed there.
I was resolved not to take her bedroom from her and I signalled to her that we would sleep in the kitchen on the floor (we were equipped for that) but she was having none of it. We both felt terribly guilty about sleeping in her bedroom but what to do? She needed the money...

When my friend and I went out the next day on a food expedition, we were struck by the odd juxtaposition of the Old Town Prague in all its ancient beauty and the newer communist-built blocks of buildings alongside.

The Old Town buildings had been spared of any war time bombings. They were beautifully handcrafted, slightly worse for wear, but solidly built. The newer buildings on the outside perimeter of the Old Town were a sharp contrast; ugly, grey and uniform. There were rows upon rows of the same buildings stretching as far as the eyes could see.

We entered a few stores looking for food. I was surprised to see how little was available in the way of fresh produce. Not much in there for a vegetarian! There were cabbages and potatoes and that was it.

There was not a supermarket in sight. Instead, you would walk into a store where rows of cans of food were displayed in a long glass cabinet behind the serving counter and you had to line up and point to what cans you wanted. It all felt completely surreal. The walls and floors were void of any kind of decorations and the atmosphere was very depressing.

[Hughe]

If I can live free in Nature like a wild bird, I do not support the corrupted system involuntarily.

One individual is weak against the group. All political system invented by humans require group decision. Once unlimited power is concentrated to the group of people, corruption of the society, class division, chaos, injustice, and labor / resource exploitation as form of slavery emerges. I had witnessed that less than few hundred military gangs ruled the country of fifty million people over four decades.

If every member of the society becomes a superhuman, communism can be formed.

[Catsquotl]

Love Noam Chomsky and love this vid. What he’s describing is anarcho communism.

Anarcho syndycalism really.. Which is different from communism.
Alexander Berkman's book describes it in more detail..

I have contemplated to put the book in Constance's empowerment thread. It has shaped the way I think and feel about politics and what could be possible tremendously.
I guess the word Anarchy is still wildly misunderstood.

With Love

[Baby Steps]

So I asked my friend to describe his early life experience of Communism in Eastern Europe, he stayed with us after defecting just before the wall came down.

What he is describing is late stage communism in a relatively prosperous country where the state functioned fairly well..


So you could grow up, get married, have children, etc, but sooner or later as your career progressed you would be expected to make sincere public declarations to the Communist party, including loyalty to the Soviet Union, and ideological compliance. If you did not do this, your career would not progress. So success and living standards depended on being seen to toe the line. Additional advantages were gained through your own connections within the Party.

It was all about who you knew, what favours you rendered, etc.

If you declared your loyalties, but there was any suspicion that you did not really mean it, things would go badly for you, so really, if you were pretending, it was important to make a very good performance.

If you joked or criticised the party or the state, you would go to prison for a minimum of 6 months, and afterwards, you would be unable to return to your profession, you would have to take menial work, and it would severely affect your family & their prospects.

Surveillance and fear was dominant. In those days it was less tech based, although we were listened to and watched. There was a network of informers, and people often found that comments were reported to the state, even if people had been very careful to protect themselves. Behaviour and compliance was included in your file, not just police file, but also the personnel file that moved with you in your employment. Therefore the CP used the employer to police and coerce its staff in terms of ideology, behaviour etc.

These societies had an ecosystem of Artists and writers however these people's careers and platforms were only allowed as long as they toed the party line.

The whole state functioned on this intimidation & control, including bribery for everything.(in various forms)

The Soviet Union dictated to Eastern Europe on industrial strategy and economic planning. Eastern European countries that wished to make more & better things were prevented from doing so if those products would affect Soviet production.

If course there were good things such as totally free Health care, dentistry & Education.

[Kamikaze]

delete.... "impolite"

[Gemma13]

For reference in this thread.






...

The media is supporting division and sensationalism, not BLM, BLM was just the movement that happened to gain momentum at the time. Most of the protests are peaceful. Most aspects of the movement are benign. But that doesn’t sell news stories so 💁🏻‍♀️
...

Early supporters of BLM seemed like beautiful peaceful people, but the movement itself... I personally can't believe they just dropped Marxist training in at the last minute. Somehow I bet they had this lined up, ready to pull in innocent, well meaning people. I don't invest the same good faith into BLM the organisation as you do

What’s the Marxist training you’re referring to?

Susan Rosenberg and several of the other BLM organizers came from the Weather Underground of the 1960’s - 70’s. Rosenberg’s Domestic Terrorism conviction was pardoned by Bill Clinton on his last day in office. She went about organizing for one of the various Soros Front outfits, Thousand Talents, which supervises BLM’s operations and fundraising. She and several others in the leadership claim to be “Trained Marxists”.

Not that that actually applies to what we are talking about in this thread, which is jumping timelines. In the larger scheme of things, BLM is utterly unimportant. They always were just a Rich Man’s Trick. Same with Antifa, which has become something of a bugaboo in Right Wing Circles.

It will take our friends on both the Left and Right some time to get that. Of course, anyone passingly familiar with the manipulation of the American media after the successful Putsch against JFK already knows this.

THANK YOU! Loaded post connecting very significant dots giving the birds eye view above BLM.

No matter the intentions we should never sell out to violent terrorists to get the job done.

SUSAN ROSENBURG -  Activist who believes violence and terror is a means to an end.

.  Joined the May 19th Communist Organization, which worked in support of the Black Liberation Army and its offshoots (including assistance in armored truck robberies), the Weather Underground and other revolutionary organizations.

.  Rosenberg was sentenced to 58 years' imprisonment on the weapons and explosives charges.

. Inarcerated in 1984 for domestic terror in U.S.

.  Sentence commuted by Clinton 2001.

.  2020 - Currently Vice Chair of THOUSAND CURRENTS.

THOUSAND CURRENTS - https://thousandcurrents.org/what-we-do/

Organization overseeing grassroots movements e.g. Black Lives Matter, Climate Justice, etc.


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/05/03/us-history-first-women-terrorist-group-191037
Extracts:

The group was also the first American terrorist group entirely organized and led by women. Women picked the targets, made the bombs and implanted the devices. It was a new sisterhood of the bomb and the gun. “We lived in a country that loved violence,” one member said. “We had to meet it on its own terms.”

The Weather Underground Organization—among the most notorious U.S. terrorist formations of the 1970s—has been the subject of documentaries, memoirs and countless academic studies. But May 19th is long forgotten. This is remarkable given the group’s string of violent and spectacular operations from 1979 to 1985: armed robberies that led to the murder of police officers and security guards, audacious prison breakouts and a bombing campaign that in addition to the U.S. Capitol targeted government buildings in Washington and New York.

..........

Three central figures in May 19th illustrate this generational political trajectory: Judy Clark, Marilyn Buck and Susan Rosenberg. Clark was a classic “red diaper” baby, the daughter of high-level Communist Party, USA, functionaries in New York. 

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

They don’t go hand in hand. Totalitarian dictators have used communism to further their own ends.

"Totalitarians used communism to further their ends", yet they don't go hand in hand? They go hand in hand, because totalitarians use communism to further their own ends... Basically, it provides the perfect soil for totalitarianism to flourish, which is why communism doesn't and will never work. Your contradictory statement illustrates the reality exactly – and proves my original point.




Love Noam Chomsky and love this vid. What he’s describing is anarcho communism.

Anarcho syndycalism really..


Anarcho syndicalist commune.. classic!

FSbl16vTovU

[spade]

And you know that China isn’t communist right? It has a stratified society. That should be the first giveaway....[COLOR="red"]



You have got to get your head out of the sand... China NOT communist? I'm afraid they have perfected communism. You see truly successful communists understand the value of creating the illusion of "choice" (false freedom) and manipulating humans to achieve their complete and ultimate agendas. The failed states like the the USSR, Nicaragua, (Cuba?), NK, didn't know the value of that, they didn't have Sun Tsu, Confucius and Saul Alinsky's manifesto mixed into the philosophy and couldn't reconcile the economic disasters waiting to happen with just Marxist doctrine alone.

[silvanelf]

And you know that China isn’t communist right? It has a stratified society. That should be the first giveaway....[COLOR="red"]



You have got to get your head out of the sand... China NOT communist? I'm afraid they have perfected communism. You see truly successful communists understand the value of creating the illusion of "choice" (false freedom) and manipulating humans to achieve their complete and ultimate agendas.

It's obvious that your are using your own definition of the word "communism." Here is the usual definition of the word "communism" according to the Encyclopedia Britannica:


Communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories) and the natural resources of a society.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism[/QUOTE]

In this way, China has a socialist-capitalist economy.




... the illusion of "choice" (false freedom) and manipulating humans to achieve their complete and ultimate agendas
This sounds like a description of the U.S. elections, the "choice" between Reps and Dems.

[Justjane]

They don’t go hand in hand. Totalitarian dictators have used communism to further their own ends.

"Totalitarians used communism to further their ends", yet they don't go hand in hand? They go hand in hand, because totalitarians use communism to further their own ends... Basically, it provides the perfect soil for totalitarianism to flourish, which is why communism doesn't and will never work. Your contradictory statement illustrates the reality exactly – and proves my original point.




Love Noam Chomsky and love this vid. What he’s describing is anarcho communism.

Anarcho syndycalism really..


Anarcho syndicalist commune.. classic!

FSbl16vTovU

Dictators have used all kinds of political models to further their owns ends. Look at the Middle East and Africa. Communism is but one.

¤=[Post Update]=¤






And you know that China isn’t communist right? It has a stratified society. That should be the first giveaway....[COLOR="red"]



You have got to get your head out of the sand... China NOT communist? I'm afraid they have perfected communism. You see truly successful communists understand the value of creating the illusion of "choice" (false freedom) and manipulating humans to achieve their complete and ultimate agendas.

It's obvious that your are using your own definition of the word "communism." Here is the usual definition of the word "communism" according to the Encyclopedia Britannica:


Communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories) and the natural resources of a society.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism

In this way, China has a socialist-capitalist economy.




... the illusion of "choice" (false freedom) and manipulating humans to achieve their complete and ultimate agendas
This sounds like a description of the U.S. elections, the "choice" between Reps and Dems.[/QUOTE]

Spade likes making up his own definitions for things. It’s the only way he can justify his viewpoint of the world.

[Constance]

Perhaps it is both..

Is China a Capitalist or Communist Country?

...So, after the enormous economic and social changes he unleashed can we best describe China as a Communist country with a veneer of market economics or is it a capitalist country with a nominally Communist government? Perhaps it is both: ‘state capitalism’ with a framework of Communist party rule...

For more of this article, read here (https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/politics-of-economics/0/steps/30823)

[TomKat]

In 1989 when I visited Czechoslovakia, communism was just in the throws of being dismantled. These were my impressions and personal experiences whilst there.

Upon my first arriving by train into Prague, it was eerie standing on the platform. It wasn't like any other train platform that I had visited, not the usual hub bub my travelling eyes and ears were used to. It was hushed and quiet, even though it was busy. The atmosphere felt heavy and depressed. I felt like I had suddenly stepped into the twilight zone.

As soon as we had started to walk towards the exit, myself and others were surrounded by the local Czechs. All held up crudely written signs in english inviting us to stay with them. There was one woman in particular that caught my attention. She was a tiny slip of a woman. She was so eager to have us stay and pulled at my sleeve gently, her english non-existent. But we understood each other. She looked so ill and tired and worn out. My heart went out to her.

The person I was travelling with agreed with me that we should stay with her, and so we followed her. At one point, we were walking down one of the Old Town streets. Again I was struck by how busy it was on both sides of the street but how quiet it was! When we finally got to the womans house at the edge of the city, she warmly invited us in.

Her apartment was tiny and sparsely furnished. The furniture also looked tired and worn out. She was living in abject poverty. She showed us to our bedroom and we placed our things in there.
I soon realised that this was the only bedroom in the house and when she showed us the kitchen, there was a tiny cot in the corner of that tiny kitchen. That tiny cot was to be her bed whilst we stayed there.
I was resolved not to take her bedroom from her and I signalled to her that we would sleep in the kitchen on the floor (we were equipped for that) but she was having none of it. We both felt terribly guilty about sleeping in her bedroom but what to do? She needed the money...

When my friend and I went out the next day on a food expedition, we were struck by the odd juxtaposition of the Old Town Prague in all its ancient beauty and the newer communist-built blocks of buildings alongside.

The Old Town buildings had been spared of any war time bombings. They were beautifully handcrafted, slightly worse for wear, but solidly built. The newer buildings on the outside perimeter of the Old Town were a sharp contrast; ugly, grey and uniform. There were rows upon rows of the same buildings stretching as far as the eyes could see.

We entered a few stores looking for food. I was surprised to see how little was available in the way of fresh produce. Not much in there for a vegetarian! There were cabbages and potatoes and that was it.

There was not a supermarket in sight. Instead, you would walk into a store where rows of cans of food were displayed in a long glass cabinet behind the serving counter and you had to line up and point to what cans you wanted. It all felt completely surreal. The walls and floors were void of any kind of decorations and the atmosphere was very depressing.

Miserable but equal...

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Dictators have used all kinds of political models to further their owns ends. Look at the Middle East and Africa. Communism is but one.[COLOR="red"]


How does one go about creating a communist society that doesn't become a dictatorship?

[Constance]

In 1989 when I visited Czechoslovakia, communism was just in the throws of being dismantled. These were my impressions and personal experiences whilst there.

Upon my first arriving by train into Prague, it was eerie standing on the platform. It wasn't like any other train platform that I had visited, not the usual hub bub my travelling eyes and ears were used to. It was hushed and quiet, even though it was busy. The atmosphere felt heavy and depressed. I felt like I had suddenly stepped into the twilight zone.

As soon as we had started to walk towards the exit, myself and others were surrounded by the local Czechs. All held up crudely written signs in english inviting us to stay with them. There was one woman in particular that caught my attention. She was a tiny slip of a woman. She was so eager to have us stay and pulled at my sleeve gently, her english non-existent. But we understood each other. She looked so ill and tired and worn out. My heart went out to her.

The person I was travelling with agreed with me that we should stay with her, and so we followed her. At one point, we were walking down one of the Old Town streets. Again I was struck by how busy it was on both sides of the street but how quiet it was! When we finally got to the womans house at the edge of the city, she warmly invited us in.

Her apartment was tiny and sparsely furnished. The furniture also looked tired and worn out. She was living in abject poverty. She showed us to our bedroom and we placed our things in there.
I soon realised that this was the only bedroom in the house and when she showed us the kitchen, there was a tiny cot in the corner of that tiny kitchen. That tiny cot was to be her bed whilst we stayed there.
I was resolved not to take her bedroom from her and I signalled to her that we would sleep in the kitchen on the floor (we were equipped for that) but she was having none of it. We both felt terribly guilty about sleeping in her bedroom but what to do? She needed the money...

When my friend and I went out the next day on a food expedition, we were struck by the odd juxtaposition of the Old Town Prague in all its ancient beauty and the newer communist-built blocks of buildings alongside.

The Old Town buildings had been spared of any war time bombings. They were beautifully handcrafted, slightly worse for wear, but solidly built. The newer buildings on the outside perimeter of the Old Town were a sharp contrast; ugly, grey and uniform. There were rows upon rows of the same buildings stretching as far as the eyes could see.

We entered a few stores looking for food. I was surprised to see how little was available in the way of fresh produce. Not much in there for a vegetarian! There were cabbages and potatoes and that was it.

There was not a supermarket in sight. Instead, you would walk into a store where rows of cans of food were displayed in a long glass cabinet behind the serving counter and you had to line up and point to what cans you wanted. It all felt completely surreal. The walls and floors were void of any kind of decorations and the atmosphere was very depressing.

Miserable but equal...

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Dictators have used all kinds of political models to further their owns ends. Look at the Middle East and Africa. Communism is but one.[COLOR="red"]


How does one go about creating a communist society that doesn't become a dictatorship?

I'm going to offer a snippet from another place that I posted in with my thoughts.

What I said was...if we cannot agree upon something, why do we not just set all that aside and work on something that we can agree upon? :heart: I don't want to do your jigsaw puzzles for you but I do want to ask this question of everyone reading this.

Why do we get bogged down in semantics/systems/ideas such as communism or capitalism when the universe is constantly evolving, the past no longer exists and the future is one of possibilities?

Why not create a new model and a system outside anything that has been discussed before? Why not call it a new name? Could we look at having a new new world? Why not create a new model and a system, and a way of being that honours all beings and co-create a world that we all want to see?

Everyone here agrees that we don't like the way that the world is currently heading and that there are things that we do want for ourselves and each other which still can be discussed.
Truly, if we want heartfelt answers to the biggest issues of our lifetime, it is time to get creative. :heart:

APDiFRqkAok

[spade]

Jane, i’m just going to ignore your abrasive insults, and address your naive question...
How does one go about creating a communist society that doesnt become a dictatorship?

You can’t because human nature has perpetually shown that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Your very dismissive of others presence in the forum has already shown this to be the case with your insistence of trying to persuade others that communism is the way. I believe there are others who would be less patient with this rhetoric. I would not want people like you to lead any movement, let alone communism of all things.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Why not create a new model and a system outside anything that has been discussed before?

Exactly. Why would communism suddenly work now when it never has before?

43885

Benjamin Franklin also spoke wisely when he said:

43886


Why not call it a new name?

As long as it doesn't have an 'ism'. How about 'natural-living'? I think we could come up with an infinite number of ideas for what that would entail. Its simplest definition for me would be a return to living in harmony with nature, in harmony with ourselves, and in harmony with spirit.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Why can't work be play? And why can there be no work as such? Just endless play and endless joy. Why can't we just create for the sake of creation itself? Why can't we celebrate every day the great gift of life and revel in our natural state as experiencers of bliss?

'Ism's restrict the scope of life lived.

[spade]

One of the best 3mins of your time, you will ever hear in your lifetime...

8p2QfjaSIUo

[Ernie Nemeth]

Just by the speed of Mr. Peterson's words it is evident that this is not coming from his processing centers but from his personal bias and prejudice. It may be that he has said these words, and long ago cogitated their value, so many times that he can now merely express these thoughts by rote. I don't know.

Essentially, to be fair, once all the higher level convolutions are removed:

communism = community

And that equates to the very opposite of globalism. As soon as centralization of that community-based philosophy is enacted it is no longer communism but totalitarianism.

So, in fact, communism, as it is purely defined, has never been tried before and so has no historical precedent.
JustJane, if I remember correctly, also made this point by claiming that in order for communism to work the whole word has to embrace it. (that is why it goes hand in hand with Islam, the so-called universal religion, and why it is so heavily guarded against in the west)

[spade]

communist china at work...

https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1282721168693301255

[spade]

communism = community



communism ≠ community

communism = forced values upon individual rights on a nationwide scale, as dictated by dictators, of which individuals cannot opt out from. If they do, it would be death or imprisonment.

community = shared values of a group of individuals often appointing leaders to lead the group, and of which individuals are free to opt out from at any given moment.

See the difference? Both have some form of central power.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Their roots are the same for a reason.

Just because a certain group of intelligentsia decided to commandeer the definition does not make it so. The moderated definitions do not make them the de facto meaning of the word which merely uses the tools of grammar and language to denote an institution, the institution of communism, which so far has not succeeded in its implementation.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Just by the speed of Mr. Peterson's words it is evident that this is not coming from his processing centers but from his personal bias and prejudice. It may be that he has said these words, and long ago cogitated their value, so many times that he can now merely express these thoughts by rote. I don't know.


Hey Ernie. If we know anything of Jordan Peterson, we know he processes at a speed well beyond the statistical norm. Basically, he knows this material. He knows it inside out and upside down, it's been his field of study and analysis for more than 30 years.

Here's a more measured response.

YXgZAdaMtS8



So, in fact, communism, as it is purely defined, has never been tried before and so has no historical precedent.

That's a bit like saying the tenets of Christianity, or Islam, or Judaism, as they are purely defined in scripture, have never been tried before, and so "true Religion" has no historical precedent.

We have all the historical precedent we will ever need for the abject failures of communism (and religion for that matter). What communism means in theory, how it looks on paper (same for religion), is completely irrelevant where human power structures are concerned and are involved. Mankind, in its current development, still exists in a paradigm of conflict and polarity. An equity system will therefore always, always, piss-off a percentage of those who want more than the rest. In order to keep equity 'equitable' and maintain control of it, you have to end up enforcing it. And bang, there goes any semblance of liberty, and the spiral begins. We've seen it once, twice, thrice, fifteen times, resulting in millions of deaths and absolute devastation.

I'm all for community-ism if that's to be its name. I called for something like that myself in an earlier post. It may indeed be the only solution - one day. It would have to be cooperative, with people living in individual autonomous pockets of community, all working as one but also together. Unfortunately, because pride, greed, sloth et al, still exist in the human psyche, it won't and cannot work today. Owing to moral and spiritual impotence in the human character, there will always be a call for "rules" and "regulations" and oversight - a big, fat bureaucracy in other words, to keep everything afloat and everyone inline. And that's where totalitarianism emerges. It is 100% unavoidable.

Basically, humanity is still too primitive to live without such measures and controls. It hasn't yet advanced to a degree where individuals can responsibly self-regulate, which is absolutely a prerequisite for an equity system (without centralization), to ever function.

You cannot inflict a doctrine of equality on a population that doesn't even recognise that same spark of divinity in each other, and expect it to stick organically. You can only make it stick with force, and to exert force you need to establish a power base. Which results in just another pyramid of institutionalized hierarchical corruption, same as every other system.

One of the key problems with communism (as noted throughout the 20th century) was that it lacked essential legal and statutory controls to ensure accountability. Democracy comes with these written on the tin in big bold letters - yes, how these 'work' is often laughable, but at least such crucial guarantees are allowed to exist.

[Baby Steps]

communism is dangerous because it attempts to offer a solution to a problem that other isms do not try to.

We are facing rampant corruption , oligarchy and concentration of wealth and power at the very top. The elite are in a powerful position to enable them to continue to augment their privileged position via:

- insider financial dealings
- privileged education
- connections , cooperation amongst themselves etc
- ownership conferring the ability to extract profits while keeping the masses in poverty
- the power to manipulate politics and government to their own advantage
-if you have wealth its much easier to make more than start from the bottom
- etc.

non communists lament this but do not offer a solution. Libertarians seem to be oblivious. It seems for conservatives that the only way that a society can function is if a small elite group control most of the assets, imagining something better is, to them, delusion.

If you see this, you might start wondering if these powers are so entrenched, corrupt and socially damaging, that the only remedy is to attack them, take the assets, and change the law to legitimise that revolution. That way leads to death and suffering, but that way , or that analysis is fed and strengthened by the elite's bad behaviour.

We CAN formulate something better, but one can forgive the people who conclude that there is only one, radical, solution.

[norman]

Oh come on. There's only one solution for crookery, and that's honesty, not an ism.

[Matthew]

Oh come on. There's only one solution for crookery, and that's honesty, not an ism.

Anti-ism-ism. Or Dis-anti-ism-ism

edit: (loved what you said btw)
https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107645377_2668117810113871_5854375471959778604_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQkqKnAGdnMCxRf1I2xkNhwe_b-J4ngz--LIPTSlYfjd5t1ObtWCP3FKh1qZrt0fLbk&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=7b4c956bf541da18283b85102c1be1d8&oe=5F308E65

[Constance]

Why not create a new model and a system outside anything that has been discussed before?

Exactly. Why would communism suddenly work now when it never has before?

43885

Benjamin Franklin also spoke wisely when he said:

43886


Why not call it a new name?

As long as it doesn't have an 'ism'. How about 'natural-living'? I think we could come up with an infinite number of ideas for what that would entail. Its simplest definition for me would be a return to living in harmony with nature, in harmony with ourselves, and in harmony with spirit.

Your speaking to my heart here Star. :heart: I couldn't have said it better myself. I wholeheartedly agree with you on all those points. Keep up the great work! :dance: "Natural living". Magnificent! I'm sending you big air hugs. I think we could come up with an infinite number of ideas as to what that would look like as well if we put our heads together. :heart: Bravo Star, Bravo :clapping::clapping::clapping:

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Why can't work be play? And why can there be no work as such? Just endless play and endless joy. Why can't we just create for the sake of creation itself? Why can't we celebrate every day the great gift of life and revel in our natural state as experiencers of bliss?

'Ism's restrict the scope of life lived.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep up the great work Ernie :heart:

Have you seen that doco called, never leave the playground? I'm going to see if I can find it and share it on my empowerment portal thread. Big air hugs to you Ernie :bearhug:

[TomKat]

communism = community

Is "community organizer" code for a communist? seems to have been in Obama's case

[TomKat]

We CAN formulate something better, but one can forgive the people who conclude that there is only one, radical, solution.

Maybe the first step is recognizing that Communism and Fascism are just the PR for Totalitarianism. Sell Communism to the powerless and Fascism to the powerful. Two sides of the same road.

[Ernie Nemeth]

If I sound like I support communism or any other 'ism', that is false.

What I do see and hear is that there is most certainly a false narrative involving the notion of communism, while the word communism, like so many other words and phrases, have been subverted. The most difficult manipulation to be aware of is the one that sneaks in below awareness, through the emotional pathway and proves itself with its supposed obviousness but is little more than rhetoric so as not to wake the autonomous strawman of ignorance we have all to one extent or another become.

And it does not even matter since all these 'ism's were invented with the same purpose in mind, to confuse by cognitive dissonance and thereby control through the legal assumption of the masses in the right of 'authority' to rule.

There is only one way forward, and that is to insist on our own right to sovereignty. We must refuse control and question anyone's right to rule.

There is only one way forward and that is to stop the division in all its forms. Words can unify, and words can divide. It is all in how they are used. If words are used in a free and open society, words edify and lead to positive change. If words are used by authority against those they oppress (because authority always oppresses in order to remain in authority), words become weapons to divide and conquer. Change, although still inevitable, then leads only to more oppression.

There is only one way forward and that is together.

One world.

One Love.

[Satori]

Here is a link to a lecture given by G. Edward Griffin on April 3, 1969. There is for my money no better lecturer alive today than he was, and is--even at his advanced age.

The title is More Deadly Than War. He discusses the revolutionary process of Socialism on its march to Communism. What he described in 1969 and prior thereto is even more pertinent and compelling today. The totalitarian playbook of the communists has not changed. Time has passed, new actors have stepped on the stage, but the program has not changed. And that is bad for freedom-loving people everywhere.

After providing many historically accurate and convincing details, the ultimate point he makes in 1969 is that the enemies are within the gates and time is short. In 1969 he says that "We are past the point of painless solutions." 51 years have passed since he gave this lecture. How painful will it be now? And for who?

He describes the issues and suggests solutions.

One hour and 14 minutes. Please do watch and understand.

https://dogsareloyal1s.com/video/More_Deadly_Than_War.mp4

https://dogsareloyal1s.com/video/More_Deadly_Than_War.mp4

[rgray222]

Here is a link to a lecture given by G. Edward Griffin on April 3, 1969. There is for my money no better lecturer alive today than he was, and is--even at his advanced age.

The title is More Deadly Than War. He discusses the revolutionary process of Socialism on its march to Communism. What he described in 1969 and prior thereto is even more pertinent and compelling today. The totalitarian playbook of the communists has not changed. Time has passed, new actors have stepped on the stage, but the program has not changed. And that is bad for freedom-loving people everywhere.

After providing many historically accurate and convincing details, the ultimate point he makes in 1969 is that the enemies are within the gates and time is short. In 1969 he says that "We are past the point of painless solutions." 51 years have passed since he gave this lecture. How painful will it be now? And for who?

He describes the issues and suggests solutions.

One hour and 14 minutes. Please do watch and understand.

https://dogsareloyal1s.com/video/More_Deadly_Than_War.mp4

https://dogsareloyal1s.com/video/More_Deadly_Than_War.mp4

Wow, this talk could have been written yesterday, especially the race issues he talks about. Only watched about 15 minutes will watch the rest this evening.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Here is a link to a lecture given by G. Edward Griffin on April 3, 1969. There is for my money no better lecturer alive today than he was, and is--even at his advanced age.

The title is More Deadly Than War. He discusses the revolutionary process of Socialism on its march to Communism. What he described in 1969 and prior thereto is even more pertinent and compelling today. The totalitarian playbook of the communists has not changed. Time has passed, new actors have stepped on the stage, but the program has not changed. And that is bad for freedom-loving people everywhere.

After providing many historically accurate and convincing details, the ultimate point he makes in 1969 is that the enemies are within the gates and time is short. In 1969 he says that "We are past the point of painless solutions." 51 years have passed since he gave this lecture. How painful will it be now? And for who?

He describes the issues and suggests solutions.

One hour and 14 minutes. Please do watch and understand.

https://dogsareloyal1s.com/video/More_Deadly_Than_War.mp4

https://dogsareloyal1s.com/video/More_Deadly_Than_War.mp4


You were right, that video should be watched by everyone. It is very informative.

But even Mr Marshall makes clear that the systems in place we call communist are not that at all, since communism cannot be implemented unless the whole world is involved and all its people.

He makes clear that these states are socialist, not communist.

Still, the video is a very important watch, especially for Americans.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Why do we get bogged down in semantics/systems/ideas such as communism or capitalism when the universe is constantly evolving, the past no longer exists and the future is one of possibilities?

Why not create a new model and a system outside anything that has been discussed before? Why not call it a new name? Could we look at having a new new world? Why not create a new model and a system, and a way of being that honours all beings and co-create a world that we all want to see?

Everyone here agrees that we don't like the way that the world is currently heading and that there are things that we do want for ourselves and each other which still can be discussed.
Truly, if we want heartfelt answers to the biggest issues of our lifetime, it is time to get creative.


I fully and wholeheartedly agree, Constance.

What I am attempting is to be bring back definitions to a common ground so we can have conversations where we are all on the same page. We cannot discuss if and until we are speaking of the same thing. Some definitions have been completely blocked of meaning by groups who have tried to own a topic, by defining words in an entirely new way, almost as if on purpose to make discussion impossible - only division and antipathy. Black's Law dictionary comes to mind, with its entirely different interpretations of common words like 'is' for example.

The other thing is that none of this is an accident. I always remember the story of the tower of babel. How did they suddenly confuse their language so no one understood their neighbors? Maybe they didn't speak different tongues but suffered division by a subversive force that commandeered language and turned it into a weapon. It seems much more likely, and it would have seemed as though various factions were speaking different languages...just like it seems today. We use the same words but they have different meanings depending on the individual, this makes communication very difficult.

When I look you in the eye, words are still important but your intent is written all over you. I can stay on track by intuition and union with spirit.

When we converse over the internet we have only our words. They must be remain precise and free of dilution by opinion and sentiment, unless by unanimous consent.

Otherwise our utterances are merely unintelligible grunting.

[Jayke]

Here is a link to a lecture given by G. Edward Griffin on April 3, 1969. There is for my money no better lecturer alive today than he was, and is--even at his advanced age.

The title is More Deadly Than War. He discusses the revolutionary process of Socialism on its march to Communism. What he described in 1969 and prior thereto is even more pertinent and compelling today. The totalitarian playbook of the communists has not changed. Time has passed, new actors have stepped on the stage, but the program has not changed. And that is bad for freedom-loving people everywhere.

After providing many historically accurate and convincing details, the ultimate point he makes in 1969 is that the enemies are within the gates and time is short. In 1969 he says that "We are past the point of painless solutions." 51 years have passed since he gave this lecture. How painful will it be now? And for who?

He describes the issues and suggests solutions.

One hour and 14 minutes. Please do watch and understand.

https://dogsareloyal1s.com/video/More_Deadly_Than_War.mp4

https://dogsareloyal1s.com/video/More_Deadly_Than_War.mp4


You were right, that video should be watched by everyone. It is very informative.

But even Mr Marshall makes clear that the systems in place we call communist are not that at all, since communism cannot be implemented unless the whole world is involved and all its people.

He makes clear that these states are socialist, not communist.

Still, the video is a very important watch, especially for Americans.

Not quite accurate. I watched it last night. He makes clear that it’s a communist tactic to label the actions, behaviours and agendas of their communist allies as ‘socialist’ as a way to hide their communist behaviours under the more benign guise of socialism. Socialism as the Trojan horse that makes communism appear palatable to the middle classes. Behind the socialist facade however, he’s warning that it’s very much the communists who are running the show and pulling the strings.

“The revolutionary process of socialism on its march to communism” as Satori already described it.

To make the distinctions clearer

Communism = the end goal.
Socialism = the Trojan horse that pushes the communist agenda forward.
Communists = those implementing the highly destructive and subversive plan of global enslavement.

A very poignant warning, detailing some of the broader social engineering tactics that we’ve all witnessed erode the fabric of society since the time of it’s filming in 1969.

[spade]

COMMUNISM = WEAR A MASK

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/fatal-haliburton-shooting-siu-1.5650761

Police taped off the parking lot of this Valu-Mart grocery store in Minden, Ont., Shortly after 8 a.m. Wednesday, police were called after a man allegedly refused to wear a mask and allegedly assaulted a store employee. (CBC)

Ontario's police watchdog is investigating after officers fatally shot a 73-year-old man in Haliburton County on Wednesday morning.

The man had refused to wear a mask and allegedly assaulted a grocery store employee before driving away, Ontario Provincial Police say.

Police were called to a Valu-Mart in Minden, Ont., just after 8 a.m., OPP Sgt. Jason Folz said.

Officers tried to stop the suspect's car, but they refrained "in the interest of public safety" before doing a follow-up investigation, Folz said.

Ontario's Special Investigations Unit (SIU) said the man drove away, and an officer saw the car and started following it for a short while. Based on the licence plate, officers made their way to a home on Indian Point Road, the SIU said.
2 officers fire guns, says SIU

Outside the home there was an "interaction," and two police officers fired their guns, the SIU said.

Folz said that after shots were fired, "additional resources" were brought to the area near Eagle Lake, by the village of Haliburton, about 215 kilometres northeast of Toronto.

The man was shot and taken to hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 11:47 a.m., the SIU said.

Folz said the victim was from the Eagle Lake area.

In a news release issued Thursday morning, the SIU said investigators had recovered a pistol and a semi-automatic rifle from the scene. The firearms of two police officers were also taken into evidence, the agency said.

Investigators are continuing to search the scene Thursday, the SIU said, and also making attempts to locate the man's next of kin.

A post-mortem examination is set to be conducted Friday morning. Four OPP officers have been designated witnesses to the shooting, and arrangements for interviews are underway, the SIU said.
Tianna Frances, a worker at the Valu-Mart in Minden, says: 'If we didn't have to force him and ... tell him that he couldn't come into the store, nothing would have happened really. He would have got his groceries and went along with his day.' (CBC)

People at the grocery store had concerns about the way the man was driving in the parking lot and on the highway, Folz said.

Tianna Frances, a worker at the Valu-Mart in Minden, said she arrived for her shift at the grocery store shortly after the police were called.

"When I got here everyone was talking about it," Frances said. "My coworkers were a little bit shaken up, yes."

Frances was told that the man didn't want to wear a mask and she and other employees had to explain politely to other customers that an incident had happened earlier when they asked why the police were there.

"I guess he just got angry and didn't want to. We couldn't really deal with that ourselves because it's really against the rules. So we had to call the police and everything," Frances said.
OPP Sgt. Jason Folz could not confirm if the victim had a weapon.

Frances said workers shouldn't have to enforce the mandatory mask policy issued by the Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit. The policy, "Use of Non-Medical Masks in Commercial Establishments," took effect on 12:01 am on Monday.

It's causing chaos, she said.

"If we didn't have to force him and ... tell him that he couldn't come into the store, nothing would have happened, really. He would have got his groceries and went along with his day."

Andrew Monkhouse says companies need to plan for difficult customers with clear policies and training for employees to help reduce tension. 5:26

Lynda Easton, manager of the Valu-Mart in Minden, began to cry when asked about the incident on Wednesday.

"I want to congratulate my staff for how they handled the situation. It was very challenging today. They are the heroes. I don't want to get emotional. They deserve the credit. That's all I want to say," Easton said.

The SIU said four investigators and two forensic investigators have been assigned to the case.

The unit is asking anyone with information to contact the lead investigator at 1-800-787-8529. The SIU is also urging people with any video evidence to upload it through the SIU website.

Earlier on Wednesday, Ontario Provincial Police said they were investigating a "serious criminal matter" near Haliburton.
A sign in the store explains the mandatory face mask policy. (CBC)

On Twitter, the OPP had asked people to stay away from Indian Point Road near Eagle Lake but said there was no concern for public safety.

An OPP official confirmed they had asked people to stay inside while looking for a male suspect in the Indian Point Road area.

The SIU probes incidents involving the police that have resulted in serious injury, death or allegations of sexual assault.

[Constance]

Over 20 years ago, I used to live in one of the inner suburbs of Melbourne. The suburb is called Box Hill. Box Hill city was always considered to be one of the larger-sized middle class suburbs of Melbourne and of medium density in population.

Melbourne has always considered to be a very multicultural city and I am very grateful for that. However, I went to visit Box Hill about 6 months ago and I was surprised. I could have been in any modern asian city! The landscape of the city of Box Hill had altered so dramatically with new tramways and infrastructure and brand new high rises everywhere that I almost didn't recognise it!
All the shops signs were written in Chinese. Of the shops I visited, none of the staff spoke english. It was now a very highly affluent city filled with Chinese people living and working there. I didn't see any other cultures frequenting the stores or the streets, or coming out of homes.
There has always been a trend in Melbourne for immigrants to settle in certain pockets but these are usually in the outer suburbs where it is more affordable to live, more sprawling and the population is still very mixed in its culture.



This blew my mind. I'm now starting to find things like this every where I look. The signs have been there for a long time.


‘It’s a police station honouring a police state’: Outrage as Melbourne cop shop raises Chinese Communist flag (https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/its-a-police-station-honouring-a-police-state-outrage-as-melbourne-cop-shop-raises-chinese-communist-flag/news-story/7d59fc8558a59eec0693c26fb9dbf31c?fbclid=IwAR0JdpYsXvunAmHhwp5Ec_yzDtoXvp6VP9ubOdOAbNZF_r2pmYV2o1BSHx g#.mbrqt)




Victoria Police have been accused of “honouring a police state” by flying the flag of the Chinese Communist regime on its 70th birthday.

Box Hill station in the city’s east raised the flag on October 1 in honour of the National Day of the People’s Republic of China and to mark the beginning of the Whitehorse Chinese New Year Festival.

As many as 45 million people died in four years under Mao Zedong’s Great Leap Forward, making him the greatest mass murderer in world history. The Box Hill event was attended by the mayor, state and federal ministers and local business representatives.

“The flag-raising ceremony honours the local police station’s strong relationship with the local Chinese community, retailers and local business stakeholders,” a Victoria Police spokeswoman said in a statement.

“Box Hill Police Station acknowledges the significance of this flag to a particular portion of the community without seeking to cause prejudice or offence to others. Box Hill police work closely with their local community and the raising of the flag, for one day, represents the commitment Box Hill police has in acknowledging what is an important day for many in their local area.”

She added, “Victoria Police acknowledges the concerns about the use of the flag by some people within the community, and the station will continue to assess the appropriateness of raising any flag at the police station.”

Box Hill resident Keith Wilkins told local newspaper the Whitehorse Leader “people are feeling quite uncomfortable” about the flag flying over the police station. “I’m not sure that’s appropriate,” he told the paper.

3AW radio host Neil Mitchell slammed the move on Wednesday, saying it was “a bad look”. “It’s a police station honouring a police state,” he said.

The flag-raising ceremony came as Hong Kong police shot an 18-year-old student in the chest at close range in a disturbing escalation of months of street violence between authorities and pro-democracy protesters opposed to China’s growing political influence.

Last month, Foreign Minister Marise Payne described drone footage showing hundreds of blindfolded and shackled men being transferred to camps in China’s largely Uighur Muslim northwest Xinjiang region as “deeply disturbing”.

City of Whitehorse councillor Blair Barker told 3AW he found the flag-raising “problematic”. “We’re a very diverse community out here, people with Taiwanese heritage, Uighurs, Tibetans, they’ve all got very legitimate concerns about the Communist government flag flying over a police station,” he said.

“My concern is that we’re seen to be promoting a regime that doesn’t support the democratic values and principles such as the rule of law, and people might associate our police service with the way the police services in that regime conduct themselves.”

Cr Barker said a lot of people “have probably been pretty concerned about seeing the way the Beijing-backed police in Hong Kong have been pretty brutal with democracy protesters over there”.

“I’d encourage (police) to be a bit more judicious about the sort of flags they try to fly,” he said. “I’m sure it was a symbolic gesture to show that, yes, it’s a very multicultural place and we welcome all people. Chinese people are beautiful like all people, but it’s people’s concern with that foreign regime that matters.”

Cr Barker said the same issue came up last year when the Chinese flag was flown over Box Hill Town Hall. He pushed for a ban on flying flags of other nations unless approved by a council vote, but the motion was voted down.

Box Hill has one of the highest concentrations of Chinese-born residents anywhere in the country at 27.6 per cent, as of the 2016 census.

Malaysia was the third most common country of birth after Australia and China on 4.8 per cent, followed by India on 4.2 per cent, Hong Kong on 3 per cent and South Korea on 1.7 per cent.

Last year, Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews was heavily criticised for breaking with the Federal Government to do a deal directly with the Chinese regime, signing the state up for President Xi Jinping’s controversial Belt and Road Initiative.

frank.chung@news.com.au

[Mashika]

This is completely out of topic, but i just want to say that the beautiful way you described it made me try to turn to the next page, so i could see what happened next... But there was no book or page to turn :/









Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Interesting. My ex partner is Lithuanian which was part of the USSR. He has a very different impression. I imagine that people have an entire range of experiences under various types of rule. My point is, we shouldn’t be generalising or taking our cues from popular culture.

A good friend of mine grew up in Hungary. She says Communism was dull, but everybody had a job, a roof over their heads and many had a summer place out in the country.

¤=[Post Update]=¤





Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Sounds like an American prison.

I can't comment on that because the only person I know from the USA who has done time (he was convicted of marijuana trafficking and possession) I lost contact with.

But no, it was Vietnam. In Australia, they were called, the "Boat people".

In 1989 when I visited Czechoslovakia, communism was just in the throws of being dismantled. These were my impressions and personal experiences whilst there.

Upon my first arriving by train into Prague, it was eerie standing on the platform. It wasn't like any other train platform that I had visited, not the usual hub bub my travelling eyes and ears were used to. It was hushed and quiet, even though it was busy. The atmosphere felt heavy and depressed. I felt like I had suddenly stepped into the twilight zone.

As soon as we had started to walk towards the exit, myself and others were surrounded by the local Czechs. All held up crudely written signs in english inviting us to stay with them. There was one woman in particular that caught my attention. She was a tiny slip of a woman. She was so eager to have us stay and pulled at my sleeve gently, her english non-existent. But we understood each other. She looked so ill and tired and worn out. My heart went out to her.

The person I was travelling with agreed with me that we should stay with her, and so we followed her. At one point, we were walking down one of the Old Town streets. Again I was struck by how busy it was on both sides of the street but how quiet it was! When we finally got to the womans house at the edge of the city, she warmly invited us in.

Her apartment was tiny and sparsely furnished. The furniture also looked tired and worn out. She was living in abject poverty. She showed us to our bedroom and we placed our things in there.
I soon realised that this was the only bedroom in the house and when she showed us the kitchen, there was a tiny cot in the corner of that tiny kitchen. That tiny cot was to be her bed whilst we stayed there.
I was resolved not to take her bedroom from her and I signalled to her that we would sleep in the kitchen on the floor (we were equipped for that) but she was having none of it. We both felt terribly guilty about sleeping in her bedroom but what to do? She needed the money...

When my friend and I went out the next day on a food expedition, we were struck by the odd juxtaposition of the Old Town Prague in all its ancient beauty and the newer communist-built blocks of buildings alongside.

The Old Town buildings had been spared of any war time bombings. They were beautifully handcrafted, slightly worse for wear, but solidly built. The newer buildings on the outside perimeter of the Old Town were a sharp contrast; ugly, grey and uniform. There were rows upon rows of the same buildings stretching as far as the eyes could see.

We entered a few stores looking for food. I was surprised to see how little was available in the way of fresh produce. Not much in there for a vegetarian! There were cabbages and potatoes and that was it.

There was not a supermarket in sight. Instead, you would walk into a store where rows of cans of food were displayed in a long glass cabinet behind the serving counter and you had to line up and point to what cans you wanted. It all felt completely surreal. The walls and floors were void of any kind of decorations and the atmosphere was very depressing.

[Constance]

This is completely out of topic, but i just want to say that the beautiful way you described it made me try to turn to the next page, so i could see what happened next... But there was no book or page to turn :/




Why Sasha Alisa. Thank you :flower: Here is a little more, something a bit brighter. :flower:

There was one day when my friend and I were walking down the road that leads to the Charles Bridge. It was a cold, crisp day but the sky was blue and we were keen to explore the town. As we were approaching the bridge that spans the Vltava river, I felt as if I had stepped into a magnificent watercolour painting. I was overcome by the sheer beauty of what surrounded me.
On a whim, my friend hoisted me up upon his shoulders so that I could see all the better. I was ecstatic! I felt like a young child again. And as I viewed the scenery, perched up high, I found myself lost in the moment, in a state of forgetfulness and reverie. It was one of the best moments of my life. :flower:

[Agape]

Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Interesting. My ex partner is Lithuanian which was part of the USSR. He has a very different impression. I imagine that people have an entire range of experiences under various types of rule. My point is, we shouldn’t be generalising or taking our cues from popular culture.

A good friend of mine grew up in Hungary. She says Communism was dull, but everybody had a job, a roof over their heads and many had a summer place out in the country.

¤=[Post Update]=¤





Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?



Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.

Sounds like an American prison.

I can't comment on that because the only person I know from the USA who has done time (he was convicted of marijuana trafficking and possession) I lost contact with.

But no, it was Vietnam. In Australia, they were called, the "Boat people".

In 1989 when I visited Czechoslovakia, communism was just in the throws of being dismantled. These were my impressions and personal experiences whilst there.

Upon my first arriving by train into Prague, it was eerie standing on the platform. It wasn't like any other train platform that I had visited, not the usual hub bub my travelling eyes and ears were used to. It was hushed and quiet, even though it was busy. The atmosphere felt heavy and depressed. I felt like I had suddenly stepped into the twilight zone.

As soon as we had started to walk towards the exit, myself and others were surrounded by the local Czechs. All held up crudely written signs in english inviting us to stay with them. There was one woman in particular that caught my attention. She was a tiny slip of a woman. She was so eager to have us stay and pulled at my sleeve gently, her english non-existent. But we understood each other. She looked so ill and tired and worn out. My heart went out to her.

The person I was travelling with agreed with me that we should stay with her, and so we followed her. At one point, we were walking down one of the Old Town streets. Again I was struck by how busy it was on both sides of the street but how quiet it was! When we finally got to the womans house at the edge of the city, she warmly invited us in.

Her apartment was tiny and sparsely furnished. The furniture also looked tired and worn out. She was living in abject poverty. She showed us to our bedroom and we placed our things in there.
I soon realised that this was the only bedroom in the house and when she showed us the kitchen, there was a tiny cot in the corner of that tiny kitchen. That tiny cot was to be her bed whilst we stayed there.
I was resolved not to take her bedroom from her and I signalled to her that we would sleep in the kitchen on the floor (we were equipped for that) but she was having none of it. We both felt terribly guilty about sleeping in her bedroom but what to do? She needed the money...

When my friend and I went out the next day on a food expedition, we were struck by the odd juxtaposition of the Old Town Prague in all its ancient beauty and the newer communist-built blocks of buildings alongside.

The Old Town buildings had been spared of any war time bombings. They were beautifully handcrafted, slightly worse for wear, but solidly built. The newer buildings on the outside perimeter of the Old Town were a sharp contrast; ugly, grey and uniform. There were rows upon rows of the same buildings stretching as far as the eyes could see.

We entered a few stores looking for food. I was surprised to see how little was available in the way of fresh produce. Not much in there for a vegetarian! There were cabbages and potatoes and that was it.

There was not a supermarket in sight. Instead, you would walk into a store where rows of cans of food were displayed in a long glass cabinet behind the serving counter and you had to line up and point to what cans you wanted. It all felt completely surreal. The walls and floors were void of any kind of decorations and the atmosphere was very depressing.


Hi Constance 🌸🌸🌸

I felt similar there in Prague growing up as teenager before 1989( I was 16 back then).
Prague is beautiful and magical and has lots of hidden mysteries and quiet spiritual corners even while the connection was disrupted in recent decades due to constant influx of tourists from all around the globe though Chinese tourists seem to be in majority.

1989 was difficult year in particular since the Velvet Revolution was on plan for years and atmosphere turned intense once the motion was implored, by students of my age and older, artists and intellectuals and whoever cared to join in.

I had my deeper inner views and spiritual search and was actually taken sick before it all started to move so I suffered quietly out of the school and away from the crowds.

It could have happened in 1969 already but the Russians fearing it would break their pact invaded us instead and imposed harder sanctions and tougher controls on the government so even while as a kid I grew up in “safe heaven” I was aware of the darkness. So I’ve also always sought for the Light.

There wasn’t that much “poverty” as was shown to you during that brief visit. The people who offered to take you in were not allowed to do that, by laws running back then. Most probably the woman who took you in and the rest of them too were “social cases”, they exist now too of course.

Unless they were straight “planted agents” but that’s a joke.

Most people lived in abundance in so called Czech Republic compared to Eastern Germany, Poland, Romania or Russia.

There was notorious absence of certain products in certain times of the year, before Christmas for example when people queued to get exotic and dry fruits, for example.

Yes supermarkets were smaller than today but they were all stuffed and there were more small stores around the street than you’ve noticed. Yes they used to close on weekends to discharm of visitors :)
The situation around the Old Town Square was paradoxical, quite as you describe it,
the only supermarket around did not have much.
It’s quite possible that people bought out food stuff in 1989 in fear of greater crisis but actually, usually ..the availability was like the one in your average Canadian or French small town, to compare it to somewhere else.

Germans from both East and West would come for weekends to drink bear and eat themselves to death because it was so cheap.
Food was much cheaper than nowadays of course but nowadays there is also no difference in availability.

There were not many very rich people like in the US but there wasn’t scarcity either.


Every country has “social case” class of people, hiding under various disguises. Even now there’s probably good few thousand “just vagabonds” of all origins living in Prague as homeless,
people who lost it at some point of their life and carrier or run away from somewhere else, hopeless alcoholics who ask for money only to buy another bottle.
Of course they’re not “in norm” but there’s certainly far fewer of them than say, in San Francisco .


Things then moved on so fast that it’s difficult to imagine for many people because everyone still held to the heritage of their grandparents generations,
the arts, philosophies, crafts and skills, plots of land , castles in the countryside :)

But it happened too fast before the older generation could make any good sense of it , the big economic bargain and challenge took over the speed followed by new generation of students who all speak English and are on their computers for 20 hours a day, the business took over the rooftops so to say,
the new dream of old freedom emerged only to be immediately challenged.

Future is in the hands of young people of today ..

what cheers me up on sight is when I see some of the old, depressed generation of our parents and grandparents enjoy their lives nowadays,
dressed up well as they once used to, carry themselves with dignity and browse on their tablets between shoppings.

The market is overwhelmed by products these days and seniors always have poor pensions, around the globe you know so they always complain a bit but practically, they aren’t in any worse situation than any other senior in Europe.


-😌-

[Constance]

This video is well worth a watch. What this soul is sharing is now unfolding worldwide, in real time. This is why we need to stop what we are doing and redirect all our energies to the ultimate answer. Please see my Draw your sword, it's time to get real thread for inspiration.

I cannot confirm this, but apparently, someone hacked into WHO and lifted this article.
Whether this document is real or not, it rings true to me.

#5 is of particular interest. You will understand why I find this so relevant once you have watched the video.

44077


10163882064195142/

[ralfy]

Communism is a nineteenth-century political theory that stems from earlier views of society and borrows elements from much of human history. It was reaction to abusive behavior of capitalists towards laborers, including children, and later imperialist policies of various countries. In terms of ideological control, it also attacked families, public education, and religion as these were used as extensions of capitalist power.

It's not so much the opposite of capitalism, which is an economic system that involves using surplus earnings to increase production, but a reaction to one aspect of the latter, which is control of the means of production by a few.

In time, various countries incorporated principles from communism, including state regulation and public corporations, leading to mixed economies. Capitalists also needed the state to legitimize private property, to ensure the use of fiat currencies, and so on.

But the point raised by the latter Marx, that everything ultimately has an economic base, has come true, which is why the global economy itself is essentially controlled by only a few corporations:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354-500-revealed-the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world/

and why many governments essentially work for the rich and not for the people. If they ever work for the latter, they do so only to appease them, but it's the rich who are prioritized, as one never bites the hand that feeds him.

This is explicitly shown in the U.S., which is the dominant capitalist economy in the world. Wall Street controls its economy (from media to food production and processing to arms production) and funds the government, both political parties, the defense industry and the military (what Eisenhower called "the military industrial complex"), businesses, and consumers. In return, the government has throughout several administrations promoted Reaganomics, which calls for deregulation (to allow the rich to engage in financial speculation) plus the use of foreign policies plus the government to influence, coerce, destabilize, and attack other countries to ensure access to cheap labor and natural resources (such as oil) plus to protect the petrodollar. All of the costs are passed on to the public. Even bailouts given the rich (usually interest-free and with no obligation to pay) are passed on to the same.

In many ways, what Marx said has taken place: "The executive of the modern state is nothing but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie." The public is not aware of that as it fights for one political party over another (both funded by the rich in campaigns and from which they gain through lobbying and other means) while engaging in mass entertainment (served by the rich) and being exposed to numerous ads and marketing for goods and services (involving businesses that are ultimately funded by the rich).

Finally, what makes matters worse is that the same economic base might not last given a combination of limits to growth plus significant ecological damage.

[Gemma13]

More push back.

https://epochshop.com/collections/frontpage/products/new-how-the-specter-of-communism-is-ruling-our-world-3-books-shipping-after-july-1

COMPLETE WITH VOLUMES 1, 2, AND 3 OF "HOW THE SPECTER OF COMMUNISM IS RULING OUR WORLD"

Communism is neither a trend of thought, nor a doctrine, nor a failed attempt at a new way of ordering human affairs. Instead, it should be understood as a devil — an evil specter forged by hate, degeneracy, and other elemental forces in the universe.

THOUGH THE COMMUNIST REGIMES of Eastern Europe have disintegrated, the specter of communism has not disappeared. On the contrary, this evil specter is already ruling our world, and humanity must not harbor a mistaken sense of optimism. Communist China has replaced the Soviet Union as the primary threat to the free world, building up its strength in a bid for global hegemony. Europe embraces socialism, and Africa and Latin America are enveloped in communist influence. Even the United States — the leader of the free world — has fallen prey to communism and its variants. This is the startling reality humankind faces.

HOW THE SPECTER OF COMMUNISM IS RULING OUR WORLD is a must-read for every freedom-loving individual. The book reveals the ways in which the communist specter has burrowed into the minds of today’s people. It charts communism’s global advance and explains how this specter has embedded itself in nearly every facet of today’s society — from education to the judicial system — and the path humanity must take to escape its grip.

Table of Contents

Introduction
1. Communism: A Devil Bent on the Destruction of Humanity
2. The Devil’s Ways and Means
3. Communism: The Devil’s Ideology
4. A Metaphysical Understanding of the Devil
5. The Devil’s Many Faces
6. Socialism: The Preliminary Stage of Communism
7. Romantic Notions About Communism
8. The Destruction of Culture and Morality
9. Returning to the Divine and Tradition

Chapter One: The Specter’s Strategies for Destroying Humanity
1. The Corruption of Human Thought
2. The Subversion of Traditional Culture
3. Communism in the East and the West
4. The Breakdown of Society
5. The Divide-and-Conquer Strategy
6. Deception and Defense

Chapter Two: Communism’s European Beginnings
1. Karl Marx’s Satanic Works
2. Marxism’s Historical Context
3. The French Revolution
4. Communism’s Debut in Paris
5. First Europe, Then the World

Chapter Three: Tyranny in the East
1. The Rise of Totalitarian Communism
2. The Brutality of Communist Rule
3. A Century of Killing

Chapter Four: Exporting Revolution
1. Exporting Revolution to Asia
2. Exporting Revolution to Latin America and Africa
3. Socialism in Eastern Europe
4. Communism After the Cold War

Chapter Five, Part I: Infiltrating the West
1. Communism via Violence and Nonviolence
2. War of Espionage and Disinformation
3. From the New Deal to Progressivism
4. The Cultural Revolution of the West
5. The Anti-War and Civil Rights Movements

Chapter Five, Part II: Infiltrating the West
6. The American Marxist
7. The Long March Through the Institutions
8. Political Correctness
9. Socialism Across Europe
10. Falling for the Devil’s Tricks

Chapter Six: The Revolt Against God
1. In the East: A Violent Revolt Against God
2. In the West: Infiltrating and Weakening the Church
3. Communism’s Twisted Theology
4. Religious Chaos

Chapter Seven, Part I: The Destruction of the Family
1. Communism’s Aim to Abolish the Traditional Family
2. Communism’s Promotion of Promiscuity
3. Early Attempts at Sexual Liberation Under Communism
4. How Communism Destroys Families in the West

Chapter Seven, Part II: The Destruction of the Family
4. How Communism Destroys Families in the West (continued)
5. How the Chinese Communist Party Destroys Families
6. The Consequences of Communism’s Assault on the Family

Chapter Eight, Part I: How Communism Sows Chaos in Politics
1. Communism: The Politics of Humanity’s Destruction
2. Bringing Government Under Leftist Control
3. Hatred and Struggle: The Invariable Course of Communist Politics

Chapter Eight, Part II: How Communism Sows Chaos in Politics
4. Politics Through Violence and Lies
5. The Road to Totalitarianism
6. Communism’s Threat to Basic Values

Chapter Nine, Part I: The Communist Economic Trap
1. State Ownership and Planned Economies: Systems of Slavery
2. Western Countries: Practicing Communism by Another Name

Chapter Nine, Part II: The Communist Economic Trap
3. The Dystopian Socialism of the Chinese Communist Party
4. The Ravages of Socialism in the Developing World
5. Marx’s Theory of Exploitation: An Inversion of Good and Evil
6. Hatred and Jealousy: The Origin of Absolute Egalitarianism
7. Communist ‘Ideals’: Tempting Man Toward His Own Destruction
8. Morality, Prosperity, and Peace

Chapter Ten: Corrupting the Legal System
1. Law and Faith
2. Law Under Communist Tyrannies
3. How Communism Warps the Law in the West
4. Restoring the Spirit of the Law

Chapter Eleven: Desecrating the Arts
1. Art: A Gift From the Divine
2. Art’s Immense Influence on Humanity
3. Communism’s Sabotage and Abuse of Art
4. Reviving True Art

Chapter Twelve, Part I: Sabotaging Education
1. Communist Elements in Primary and Secondary Education

Chapter Twelve, Part II: Sabotaging Education
2. Communism in Western Universities
3. How Communism Destroyed Education in China
4. Returning to Traditional Education

Chapter Thirteen: The Media — The Specter’s Mouthpiece
1. Mass Indoctrination in Communist Countries
2. Communist Infiltration of Western Media and Hollywood
3. Left-Wing Bias Among Media Professionals
4. The Media Takeover by Liberalism and Progressivism
5. The Film Industry: Vanguard Against Tradition
6. Television: Corruption in Every Household
7. The Media: A Key Battleground in a Total War
8. Restoring the Integrity of the ‘Fourth Branch’

Chapter Fourteen: Popular Culture – A Decadent Indulgence
1. Communist Party Culture
2. Communism’s Subversion of Western Mass Culture
3. Pop Culture and Social Chaos
4. Recovering the Moral Foundations of Human Culture

Chapter Fifteen: The Communist Roots of Terrorism
1. Terrorism and Communist Revolution
2. How Communist Regimes Export Terror
3. The Communist Origins of Islamic Extremism
4. The Chinese Communist Party’s Support of Terrorism
5. The Convergence of Terrorism and the West’s Radical Left
6. Ending the Fundamental Cause of Terrorism

Chapter Sixteen, Part I: The Communism Behind Environmentalism
1. Communism and the Environmental Movement
2. Climate Change

Chapter Sixteen, Part II: The Communism Behind Environmentalism
2. Climate Change (continued)
3. Communist Environmentalism
4. Finding a True Solution to the Environmental Crisis

Chapter Seventeen: Globalization and Communism
1. Globalism and Communism
2. Economic Globalization
3. Political Globalization
4. Cultural Globalization: A Means of Corrupting Humanity
5. Upholding National Heritage and Universal Values

Chapter Eighteen, Part I: The Chinese Communist Party’s Global Ambitions
1. The Chinese Communist Party’s Ambition to Dominate the World
2. Communist China’s Strategies for World Domination

Chapter Eighteen, Part II: The Chinese Communist Party’s Global Ambitions
3. Unrestricted Warfare With Chinese Communist Characteristics
4. The Communist ‘China Model’
5. Lessons Learned and the Way Out

Conclusion: How the Specter of Communism Is Ruling Our World

[edina]

The book, How The Specter of Communism is Ruling Our World, can be read online here (https://www.thespecterofcommunism.com/en/). (Up to Chapter Nine)

https://www.thespecterofcommunism.com

And audiobook links can be found here (https://www.thespecterofcommunism.com/en/audiobook/).

https://www.thespecterofcommunism.com/en/audiobook/ (Up to Chapter 16)

It looks like it's been translated in other languages, too.

[norman]

And audiobook links can be found here (https://www.thespecterofcommunism.com/en/audiobook/).

https://www.thespecterofcommunism.com/en/audiobook/ (Up to Chapter 16)




Chapter 14 is missing from that list. I found the same series on podbay but with the first few chapters missing. It includes 14 and has a couple more later ones and 2 updated versions of earlier chapters. I can't find part 1 of chapter 18 at either location though.

https://podbay.fm/p/how-the-specter-of-communism-is-ruling-our-world


I've put the series in my favorites list so I should get notifications if more files are added.

(I'm very impressed with podbay, by the way, it's the tool I've been looking for for years. Not perfect but very much my kind of concept and what I would have created myself if I was a coder geek)

[edina]

Thanks norm, I was just looking for Episode 14. :sun:

[anandacate]

I just finished listening to this video (from The unknown soldier (https://www.youtube.com/c/Theunknownsoldier/videos) 7-17-20) this morning, saw this thread on communism, and thought maybe it would be a good fit.

Jordan speaks slow enough that one could listen to the video at 2x normal speed and still understand his lecture.

Particularly notable was how the “deep state,” Illuminati, et al., have used the symbolism of sun worship, ancient symbols representing communism ideology, and phrases like, “Dawn of a New Day,” to “trick” us to believe some “leader” was going to be “the one” for the planet, and for us.

Jordan Maxwell-Order out of chaos
0hJS-87VVQU

[East Sun]

He repeats over and over again to the point where we scream, were not deaf, enough already.
Do you not have anything to say besides that.

We heard it before>>>>>

[Gemma13]

He repeats over and over again to the point where we scream, were not deaf, enough already.
Do you not have anything to say besides that.

We heard it before>>>>>

Seriously?? The forum is a reading venue for the public as much as it is for members.  I think it is a tad rude to expect members to know the preferences of members and then tailor their posts to please them.

[Gemma13]

Cross posting.

It is about destroying the legacy of manhood.

I'd say there are multiple attacks, undermining masculinity is just one of them; destroying the "Family unit" and "individuality" (https://fee.org/articles/5-things-marx-wanted-to-abolish-besides-private-property/) are TWO of the 10 planks of communism.


A lot of what I see today seems to be at least strangely parallel if not seemingly direct continuation of this fight between our Republic and the concept of Communism (in one of its forms).

[Agape]

I think I know something that is ahead of time and difficult to say but I seem to agree with Cyrus A Parsa that communism was initiated by the “grey alliance” through 20th century, perhaps we don’t understand fully how it all fits together yet.

If “communism” had a typical picture to it, it’s covered in grey vapour, I swear. The men in grey suits and workers in blue uniforms, dusty roads, mines and dams and workers barracks and smoking factories. The bad smell of boots and cigarettes and rough chatter of people who were taught to read and write and sent to work.
Colonies. They seem to exist in every country all around the world.
They’ve evolved their own intel following Hollywood blockbusters.

Some have evolved to culture centres and large meeting halls replacing temples for that purpose.
There’s no “philosophy allowed”. Everything needs to be quite simple.

They’re formidable places, full of dust and smog blowing to your face but “they” don’t mind.

Actually, I have considered the option now that they aren’t completely malevolent but trying to work alongside with the ones “we” don’t take care of too much.
They pick the poor dears with amnesia who wouldn’t make it otherwise. They pick even uneven characters and alcoholics and give them a life option.

It’s a tough mission altogether with little progress made :)

Perhaps ours (and theirs) only option is evolution leap and we will jump out of it all at once. Perhaps it’s like Kim Jong Un who finally learns to cry
and the last of his uniformed subjects can wipe their tears off.

Once the evolution leap happens they can go home and we can grow up.


Perhaps “we”( as in humanity) will discover ourselves again, our love for culture, nature and arts namely
and stop loving crude oil, money and machines the most instead.

Perhaps beautiful tastes will remain beautiful and no one will need so much chemicals in their foods.

Perhaps many people will stop feeling so lowly about themselves and each other and drowning in the dust of civilisation and its depression

lift their heads from the ground and look at the Stars again.


I’m not saying it will change much or that there aren’t other advanced civilisations to talk to, vice versa.
But it seems to me that “we both” are co-suffering here for a reason
and only miracle will help.

( well since Mr Grey does not understand humour let’s suggest it’s not as pessimistic out of the grey mist).


The confrontation and competition between “us and them” in itself is unhealthy.

The grounds they’ve created are artificial, not natural.

But I completely believe we can do better without it. Let’s presume they too feel awful about us and want to go home ...

🛸

We are so different but I can empathise

🙄

[Gemma13]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/navarro-if-re-elected-trump-would-continue-tough-china-policy_3559230.html?utm_source=newsnoe&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2020-10-30-4


Navarro Says ‘Arc of Toughness’ on China to Continue Under a Second Trump Administration

Oct 30, 2020

President Donald Trump, if re-elected, will continue to take tough actions to counter threats posed by the Chinese Communist Party, White House trade adviser Peter Navarro said.

No president has ever stood up to the Chinese regime like Trump, Navarro said, citing a range of measures such as U.S. tariffs on Chinese goods, sanctions on Chinese tech giant Huawei, as well as sanctions to penalize Beijing’s erosion of freedoms in Hong Kong and military aggression in the South China Sea.

“In a second term, you can certainly expect that the arc of toughness on China will continue,” he said in an interview with The Epoch Times’ “American Thought Leaders.”

“This is a president that has taken a very firm line in the sand with China, and will continue to do  so.”

His comments come days before the presidential election. Both Trump and Democratic Party candidate Joe Biden have made getting tough on China a campaign platform.

Navarro said that his one “regret” during the campaign was that “we were unable to punch through the mainstream media to raise awareness among the American people t hat this virus did indeed come from the Chinese Communist Party, and they’re killing Americans.”

“There should be more outrage than there is. This issue should be more relevant at the ballot box,” he added.

The Trump administration has repeatedly criticized the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) for its coverup of the initial outbreak in Wuhan city, causing the global spread of COVID-19.

Since early this year, the administration has confronted the CCP on a range of issues, including espionage, malign influence in the United States, security threats posed by Chinese technology, human rights abuses in Xinjiang and Hong Kong, and its intimidation of Taiwan.

Navarro said the administration has been working on stemming the flow of American capital to the CCP, particularly its military. In May, the administration blocked investments by Thrift Savings Plan (TSP)—the main pension fund for federal government employees, including U.S. military personnel—into Chinese equities.

Before this move, the TSP was set to invest in an index run by MSCI that includes China-based stocks of companies affiliated with the Chinese military or involved in the mass surveillance of Chinese citizens. For instance, the index includes Hong Kong-listed AviChina Industry & Technology, the listing company for Chinese state-owned defense company Aviation Industry Corp. of China (AVIC). The firm and its subsidiaries develop aircraft and weapons systems for the Chinese military.

“An American pension fund that allows its dollars to go into AVIC, which is China’s Boeing equivalent, t hat makes all the missiles that sink American aircraft carriers—I mean, that’s just flat out crazy,” Navarro said. “Particularly if they’re pensions of former military officials. That kind of stuff’s got to stop.”

In response to a question about Wall Street’s continuing ramp-up of investments in China, Navarro described Wall Street as “writ large a sociopath.”

“They have no morals or patriotism. It’s all about the money.”

[Gemma13]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/peter-navarro-hollywood-and-nba-useful-idiots-for-chinese-communist-party_3559258.html?ref=brief_News&utm_source=morningbrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mb

Exclusive: Peter Navarro — Hollywood and NBA ‘Useful Idiots’ for Chinese Communist Party

BY JACK PHILLIPS AND JAN JEKIELEK
October 30, 2020

Trump administration adviser and economist Peter Navarro on Friday stated that NBA athletes and Hollywood celebrities are “useful idiots” of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), suggesting the Democrats are unwittingly playing into the hands of the Chinese regime.

Navarro, while saying that he will “never ever watch an NBA game again,” told The Epoch Times’ “American Thought Leaders” that athletes are reticent to speak out about the Chinese regime because they are beholden to its interests.

“They shut up and dribble when they’re over in China,” he said but added that there are “sweatshops in China” that “make sneakers for their stars” and “sell [them] back to American kids.”

His comments came as the NBA season wrapped up several weeks ago, with the Los Angeles Lakers winning another championship. However, ratings for the NBA Finals hit record lows, and polls have suggested that NBA players’ pro-Black Lives Matter and left-leaning political rhetoric is partially to blame.

Navarro argued that NBA players “really turn an unconscionable blind eye to the abuses in Xinjiang Province,” rights abuses in Hong Kong, and “concentration camps” as well as the “abuses of the Falun Gong with the organ harvesting” of living people. He’s referring to the traditional Chinese meditation practice that has been subject to CCP persecution since 1999.

“These NBA players, not only do they ignore that, but then they have the temerity to get on their soapbox and sound self-righteous about what they see as a repressive America,” he said, referring to the Black Lives Matter protests.

But “the bigger problem,” Navarro argued, “is they feed this narrative that somehow China’s authoritarian government and socialist-communist economic system is superior to ours.”

NBA and Lakers superstar LeBron James came under fire last year for criticizing Houston Rockets GM Daryl Morey after he supported anti-CCP protests in Hong Kong. James described Morey as “misinformed” and “not educated,” drawing intense backlash.

Hollywood is also capitulating to the CCP, Navarro said in the interview, noting that there has been a push for studios to remove content to make it palatable for Chinese audiences and regime censors.

A report from PEN America, a nonprofit that promotes free speech, found that the makers of blockbuster films like “Iron Man 3,” “World War Z,” and “Top Gun: Maverick” are pandering to the CCP but cutting out dialogue and characters that aren’t pro-China.

“Filmmakers cannot reduce their work to the lowest common denominator of only content that is deemed acceptable by one of the world’s most censorious regimes,” the PEN report stated. “Hollywood’s approach … is setting a standard for the rest of the world.” In one example, Paramount Studio executives demanded dialogue about a virus in “World War Z” originating in China be omitted from the film due to the regime’s sensitivity to the coronavirus that emerged in Wuhan last year.

The NBA has not responded to a request for comment.

[Gemma13]

Mods could the title of this thread be changed to: COMMUNISM (AND CHINA)
Thanks :)

[Mashika]

Hi Gemma13,

I believe there is a great misunderstanding on what's going on these days on China, Russia and related countries/regions

As it really stands right now, people on west have continued to believe that "communism" is a thing, and a danger for years and years to come. However, that's not even the case anymore, but please allow me to explain a bit

On Russia, China and other "communist" countries, there is a movement growing, specifically in young people, which is named something like "uber-modernity"

This is kind of communism, or socialistic beliefs, but not quite, it has dropped all they considered caused the last iteration to fail, specifically why the USSR died under its own weight

There are several, multinational groups forming youth armies and reaching into students to teach this new approach to their world view, one that drops all the mistakes from the past, conforms a new view and philosophy around the old principles, while avoiding introducing the mistakes from the past and so on

You can look more into that if you go search for stuff like the "Essence of Time" cult, among several others "youth armies" around those places

*By the way i don't subscribe or belong to any, i just know about them

What i see is this, most people in the west keep looking into communism as a danger, while most eastern young (8 to 28 or so) keep looking into how the communist view is obsolete and retarded, and push for a new view which the west is not even aware of

By the time the west realizes that they were not looking at the right place, it will be too late, because most young people in the east believe the old communist views are done for, and they have their own views, which are not even acknowledged on the west, by own choice, or lack of. There is a complete view which is out of sync with reality

While in the east most people learn about real hard history and prepare for a hard future (see the Russian youth army, or the Nashi), in the US at least more kids the same age can not even write their own language, much less understand implications of wars or politics and so

While in the East a Nashi or youth army kid can disassemble a rifle and reassemble in 30 seconds, in the US kids can only watch Tiktok all day and talk half English written sentences and play with guns on games, while the eastern kids play with real guns and go take advanced classes of history, math and science

Current US army stands around 1+ million soldiers, just alone, in Russia, the youth army is closing in on that number. This means, kids from 8 years to 17 are in the numbers of 800 thousand, all well prepared, all with high education, all ready for combat, and same in China and other eastern countries

And example of this approach to life is something like this

Western kid: 1+1 = 2
Asian kid: 1 is followed by 1.1, then 1.2, then 1.3... and so on, until you reach 2

Discernment among all things, clear understanding of the world is a must, not just to pass an exam, or have a high level view. This applies to every single aspect of life, since it's considered a good practice and commitment to excellence

But this is inheritance of the elders on the west, there's no one else to blame, just to be clear on that and to be just, no one else caused it

I believe, western countries are not even aware of what's really going on in the world. Communism, for the new people on the east, is ridiculously obsolete. Yet look at news channels and papers on western countries, it's funny, they still go by the old standards that matter nothing at all anymore. Once the new generation comes into power in both sides, one will be prepared, the other one will try to apply obsolete knowledge to people that don't even care anymore. That's what "being left behind" looks like in the end

The only reason why western countries believe China is "communist" is because they can't understand what's happening and attempt to apply obsolete views into a country they can't understand at all, and that's why they continue to fall behind year after year. It is obvious if you look from the outside, but lamentably not so for people on the inside

ETA:

I guess what i'm really trying to say is this

IF you would try to apply the current western understanding of communism to your own countries, it would be a total disaster, because even people on China and Russia, just threw it out to garbage bin

In Russia, the Soviets are still around, claiming power and their money back, yet they kept saying back then, that those things did not matter :) In the end it did matter i guess

The new concepts are completely unknown in western world, and i believe that's why people think those can be applied freely, if possible, however that's not and probably will never be the case "heaven forbid" lol. Repeating the same mistakes of the past is not a good thing to do

Even after tons of decades, there's still a giant confusion about the difference between communism and socialism

[Sue (Ayt)]

In many ways, what Marx said has taken place: "The executive of the modern state is nothing but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie." The public is not aware of that as it fights for one political party over another (both funded by the rich in campaigns and from which they gain through lobbying and other means) while engaging in mass entertainment (served by the rich) and being exposed to numerous ads and marketing for goods and services (involving businesses that are ultimately funded by the rich).

Finally, what makes matters worse is that the same economic base might not last given a combination of limits to growth plus significant ecological damage.

We certainly are being dished up massive entertainment now. It is like watching a Jason Bourne or Tom Clancy show.
(stock up on the popcorn)
:popcorn:

[Gemma13]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-addressing-threat-securities-investments-finance-communist-chinese-military-companies/

EXECUTIVE ORDERS

Executive Order on Addressing the Threat from Securities Investments that Finance Communist Chinese Military Companies

 FOREIGN POLICY

 Issued on: November 12, 2020

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that the People’s Republic of China (PRC) is increasingly exploiting United States capital to resource and to enable the development and modernization of its military, intelligence, and other security apparatuses, which continues to allow the PRC to directly threaten the United States homeland and United States forces overseas, including by developing and deploying weapons of mass destruction, advanced conventional weapons, and malicious cyber-enabled actions against the United States and its people.

Key to the development of the PRC’s military, intelligence, and other security apparatuses is the country’s large, ostensibly private economy.  Through the national strategy of Military-Civil Fusion, the PRC increases the size of the country’s military-industrial complex by compelling civilian Chinese companies to support its military and intelligence activities.  Those companies, though remaining ostensibly private and civilian, directly support the PRC’s military, intelligence, and security apparatuses and aid in their development and modernization.

At the same time, those companies raise capital by selling securities to United States investors that trade on public exchanges both here and abroad, lobbying United States index providers and funds to include these securities in market offerings, and engaging in other acts to ensure access to United States capital.  In that way, the PRC exploits United States investors to finance the development and modernization of its military.

I therefore further find that the PRC’s military-industrial complex, by directly supporting the efforts of the PRC’s military, intelligence, and other security apparatuses, constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat, which has its source in substantial part outside the United States, to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States.  To protect the United States homeland and the American people, I hereby declare a national emergency with respect to this threat.

Accordingly, I hereby order:

Section 1.  (a)  The following actions are prohibited:

(i)   beginning 9:30 a.m. eastern standard time on January 11, 2021, any transaction in publicly traded securities, or any securities that are derivative of, or are designed to provide investment exposure to such securities, of any Communist Chinese military company as defined in section 4(a)(i) of this order, by any United States person; and

(ii)  beginning 9:30 a.m. eastern standard time on the date that is 60 days after a person is determined to be a Communist Chinese military company pursuant to section (4)(a)(ii) or (iii) of this order, any transaction in publicly traded securities, or any securities that are derivative of, or are designed to provide investment exposure to such securities, of that person, by any United States person.

(b)  Notwithstanding subsection (a)(i) of this section, purchases for value or sales made on or before 11:59 p.m. eastern standard time on November 11, 2021, solely to divest, in whole or in part, from securities that any United States person held as of 9:30 a.m. eastern standard time on January 11, 2021, in a Communist Chinese military company as defined in section 4(a)(i) of this order, are permitted.

(c)  Notwithstanding subsection (a)(ii) of this section, for a person determined to be a Communist Chinese military company pursuant to section 4(a)(ii) or (iii) of this order, purchases for value or sales made on or before 365 days from the date of such determination, solely to divest, in whole or in part, from securities that any United States person held in such person, as of the date 60 days from the date of such determination, are permitted.

(d)  The prohibitions in subsection (a) of this section apply except to the extent provided by statutes, or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted before the date of this order.

Sec. 2.  (a)  Any transaction by a United States person or within the United States that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, causes a violation of, or attempts to violate the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.

(b)  Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.

Sec. 3.  (a)  The Secretary of the Treasury, after consultation with the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the Director of National Intelligence, and the heads of other executive departments and agencies (agencies) as deemed appropriate by the Secretary of the Treasury, is hereby authorized to take such actions, including the promulgation of rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to the President by IEEPA, to carry out the purposes of this order.  The Secretary of the Treasury may, consistent with applicable law, redelegate any of these functions within the Department of the Treasury.  All agencies shall take all appropriate measures within their authority to carry out the provisions of this order.

(b)  Rules and regulations issued pursuant to this order may, among other things, establish procedures to license transactions otherwise prohibited pursuant to this order.  But prior to issuing any license under this order, the Secretary of the Treasury shall consult with the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, and the Director of National Intelligence.

Sec. 4.  Definitions.  For purposes of this order:

(a)  the term “Communist Chinese military company” means

(i)    any person that the Secretary of Defense has listed as a Communist Chinese military company operating directly or indirectly in the United States or in any of its territories or possessions pursuant to section 1237 of Public Law 105-261, as amended by section 1233 of Public Law 106-398 and section 1222 of Public Law 108-375, as of the date of this order, and as set forth in the Annex to this order, until such time as the Secretary of Defense removes such person from such list;

(ii)   any person that the Secretary of Defense, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury, determines is a Communist Chinese military company operating directly or indirectly in the United States or in any of its territories or possessions and therefore lists as such pursuant to section 1237 of Public Law 105-261, as amended by section 1233 of Public Law 106-398 and section 1222 of Public Law 108‑375, until such time as the Secretary of Defense removes such person from such list; or

(iii)  any person that the Secretary of the Treasury publicly lists as meeting the criteria in section 1237(b)(4)(B) of Public Law 105-261, or publicly lists as a subsidiary of a person already determined to be a Communist Chinese military company, until the Secretary of the Treasury determines that such person no longer meets that criteria and removes such person from such list.

(b)  the term “entity” means a government or instrumentality of such government, partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization;

(c)  the term “person” means an individual or entity;

(d)  the terms “security” and “securities” include the definition of “security” in section 3(a)(10) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, Public Law 73-291, as codified as amended at 15 U.S.C. 78c(a)(10), except that currency or any note, draft, bill of exchange, or banker’s acceptance which has a maturity at the time of issuance of not exceeding 9 months, exclusive of days of grace, or any renewal thereof the maturity of which is likewise limited, shall be a security for purposes of this order.

(e)  the term “transaction” means the purchase for value of any publicly traded security; and

(f)  the term “United States person” means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.

Sec. 5.  The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and, as appropriate, the Secretary of Defense, is hereby authorized to submit the recurring and final reports to the Congress on the national emergency declared in this order, consistent with section 401(c) of the NEA (50 U.S.C. 1641(c)) and section 204(c) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1703(c)).

Sec. 6.  General Provisions.  (a)  Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i)   the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii)  the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b)  This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c)  This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

DONALD J. TRUMP

THE WHITE HOUSE,
November 12, 2020.  

[Gemma13]

Basic logic informs that China needs more land.  China has 1 BILLION more people than the United States and they both occupy roughly the same area of land.  Australia is also roughly the same size with a mere 25 million people - making Australia very attractive real estate.

No country can share real estate with China when they are a brutal communist dictatorship - so they have to occupy by force.  And that is exactly what they are doing.  They just haven't marched out their military, yet, because they have been very busy, and successful, at infiltrating the U.S. and Australia by stealth.

The next four years is going to be tricky now that our U.S. ally and protector is governed by a China and Communist sympathizer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBEYOZzoThA

[Gemma13]

Yep, the hypocrisy is staggering!

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/25/china-is-weaponising-wokeness/?utm_source=The+week+on+spiked&utm_campaign=73d8d2a478-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2021_03_26_07_17&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7e9712ba33-73d8d2a478-95203089

China is weaponising wokeness

The CCP – oppressor of the Uyghurs – has accused the US of ‘systemic racism’.

PADDY HANNAM 25 March 2021

It’s 2021 and the Chinese regime has started lecturing the US on racism and injustice. Yes, that’s the same Chinese regime that has put a million Uyghur Muslims in re-education camps.

Beijing has released a new report on supposed human-rights violations in the US. It opens with a quote from George Floyd – ‘I can’t breathe!’ – and goes on to state that ‘racism exists in a comprehensive, systematic and continuous manner’ in the US. According to the Chinese government, ethnic minorities in America have been ‘devastated by racial discrimination’.

This may sound like the kind of thing you’d hear from your average social-justice warrior – but it has become a familiar refrain in Beijing. China recently used this line to attack Five Eyes – the intelligence alliance comprising the US, the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. That font of honest truth, the Chinese state paper Global Times, accused alliance members of forming ‘a US-centred, racist, and mafia-styled community’. It decried this as a ‘racist axis aimed at stifling the development rights of 1.4 billion Chinese’, due to its efforts to contain China.

The CCP-run Global Times used similar language last month when declaring that ‘white supremacy’ lies behind the West’s supposed failure ‘to accept that China has done a better job’ of dealing with Covid:

‘When they see the different results of China’s and [the] West’s Covid-19 fights, their psychology of racism [is] further instigated… After the Covid-19 outbreak, the US-led Western countries have become more and more like a racist gang. They have been boasting about their so-called human rights and equality, but they have not made any progress over the past century, and have even shown an obvious retrogression.’

China accused the US of systemic racism at a UN human-rights session last year, too. Beijing was joined in this by representatives of other nations, such as Russia, Venezuela and Iran. Another CCP mouthpiece, China Daily, lapped it up, quoting Shu Zing, a scholar at Chongqing’s University of Political Science and Law: ‘The whole world has been hit by two “viruses” – the Covid virus [which] originated in nature, and the global racist virus, [which] originated in the US.’

The hypocrisy is staggering. But as Josh Glancy has put it in The Sunday Times, ‘social justice’ types have shone a light on America’s ‘woke spot’. Identity politics, he argues, ‘is so steeped in self-abasement that it might actually prove a useful tool’ for China’s attempt to surpass the US.

So many of our institutions buy into woke politics and are willing to spread the narrative of white, Western evil. Almost every corporation, politician and arm of the state has given credence to woke assumptions, especially around race. The idea that Western societies are riven with white supremacy is now accepted uncritically by many Western elites.

China’s woke-washing tactics are not entirely new, of course. During the Cold War, for example, China and the Soviet Union attacked the US over its disastrous record on race. In the era of the civil-rights struggle and the battle against segregation, these attacks had a lot more merit. Many Western radicals became devout Maoists, including many anti-racists and black radicals. Civil-rights activist Robert F Williams famously moved to China at the behest of Chairman Mao.

Today, few Western radicals take inspiration from the CCP, and none of any note follow Xi Jinping. But what has really changed since the Cold War days is the explosion of the West’s culture war. Back in the 20th century, even when there actually was widespread institutional racism in the US, America’s leaders did not take the knee to activists accusing them of racism. Now, however, a malaise has set in.

When China accuses the US of systemic racism, Joe Biden and Co can can’t deny the core accusation, as it is one they make themselves.

Given the current trade tensions, we should expect China to try to paint the West in a bad light. It is unusual, then, for the West to give it such an open goal. Donald Trump was surely right when he said that China ‘laughs’ at the US culture war: ‘When China looks at woke, they see the biggest problem we have is Dr Seuss… in the meantime, they’re building factories.’

But as Beijing laughs at our petty squabbles, it is also attempting to destroy the Uyghur people in Xinjiang. It has herded a million Uyghurs into camps, where it is brutalising them and attempting to rid them of their culture. The reports coming out of the camps are truly grim: rape, torture and much else besides. An entire ethnic group has been dehumanised.

China may accuse the West of systemic racism all it wants. But we only have to look at what is going on over there to see the real meaning of the term – and to realise how lucky we are.

[Rain Forest]

Communism is a scary topic. At least it sounds so scary....
Different group of people from different culture background have been fed with different defination of "communism".
To discuss about Communism , people need have the same defination, understanding of communism. Otherwise, A talks about A's Communism ,B talks about B's communis.......But they are not talking about the same thing.

Some people say: Communism means people share wives, one person's wife become every man's wife.

Some people say: Communism means our private properties will no longer belong to us. We will lose all our properties...It will be taken away by the government.

Some people say: Communism menas we don't need work, there is endless resources.... and people take whatever they need.....

.......

like Democracy......Different people have different understanding ,explaination about it.

This is also the limitations of human. That is why we are so easily to be misled and controlled by the small group of "deep state". That is why there is less and less people when it is closer to the top of the pyramid of any society.

Very smart people occupies the top , they create all kinds of concepts ....... to confuse people, to mislead people, to divide people , to rule people.......and to keep themselves on the top of pyramid for as long as possible.

If common people are so smart,so easy to arrive at agreement on anything, it would be difficult to rule them.....Human society structure would be totally different form, instead of being always pyramid------ common people are always cattle at the bottom of the pyramid.

Let's put the confusing concepts aside(democracy/communism), what kind of society is ideal?

1 free( if it is not free, at least it is cheap ) or affordable medical service for majority or all of the people of a society .(if not all of them, at least most of them.)
2 free( if it is not free, at least it is cheap ) or affordable accomadition for majority or all of the people of a society .(if not all of them, at least most of them.)
3 free( if it is not free, at least it is cheap ) or affordable education for majority or all of the people of a society .(if not all of them, at least most of them.)

The above mentioned 3 things are the basic needs of a human. A good society should free people from the stress ,pressure of struggling to get these basic needs of existing as a human.

I don't care if it is called democracy or communism ，white terror or dictatorship ,only if the people's basic needs are guaranteed well ,people don't need struggle for any of them.

On the contrary, if common people have to work hard ,often several jobs .... struggling to pay all kinds of bills , for instance , 1 when they get sick, they dare not go to hospital because of the abnormally highly expensive medical bills ..... they try to avoid going to hospital and deal with health problems by themselves .... to avoid getting broke by the medical bills. 2 they have to pay highly expensive tuition fees or pay student loan (not mention to all kinds of other bills and mortgage) in their 50's, 60's..... or many people don't have the luxury to go to university because of the expensive tuition fees.... ,as a result , they have to stay at the bottom of the society with their kids and grandchildren....generation after generation..... Their way of moving up in a society is blocked by the problem of money.......

Such a group of people usually living in a capitalist country, are afraid of communism.....feel scary at the thought of or hearing communism...... enjoy the freedom of speech...,enjoy their time talking about communism....

The fact is : the society which guaranteed the 3 basic needs of people in it did exist, But the deep state which controls some countries were not content with the teritorry under their control, they want to expand it to the last corner of the world .They want
to control every country's resources.......They have been trying to take every society like that down, they have been using the media as a soft weapon... fordecades,non-stop,just help to demonize those societies which gurantee their people as decent as possible life ,to overthrow the "evil‘ governments one after another（ in their eyes, of course ,because this kind of govenrment and country are in their way of controlling the whole world) until they get rid of all of them.... until one day on this planet nobody knows there ever existed on this planet such a society structure which guranteed the common people ,the majority people's 3 basic needs without making them work as cattle...or donkeys.... which served the majorty people at the bottom of the pyramid,instead of only the small group of people ont the top of the pyramid...

What's wrong with us?? Who turned us into donkeys??

[Rain Forest]

ktzQ7OSe4vkI have been to several countries and I have traveled all over the US. Other than my time in the military I have lived in several places in Texas. In all of those places none ever truly felt like home, or a place I could truly call home, even the place I was born. I have never been to a place that I could truly say this is where I could spend the rest of my life and be happy until I went to China! This may seem strange to some but while I was there in China, everywhere I traveled I truly felt at peace and happy. I have never felt like that before. The day I left China was a very sad day for me because I worried that I would never be able to return. There is a saying that, “ home is where the heart is”. I believe that is true because my heart is in China.

[Rain Forest]

p7kJCqk1qXwHow is the life under covid-19 in China now ??

Shawn J. :


I am Tujia, one of the ethnic minority groups in China. My Mom is Miao and my dad is Tujia. My grandpa used to live in one of the poorest villages in Guizhou China, and he was the first generations to leave that village for city. I was born in a city in China and now I have been living in England for 5 years so far. Every time when I mentioned I am an ethnic minority Chinese they always asked me '"have you been to the concentration camps" "have your parents been forced to work" or "have you ever been tortured by CCP". I get really tired of answering this kind of questions, and I always tried to change their perception about China, but all ended up with "you have been brainwashed." So now I am trying to avoid any topics related to China. This is so sad.

[Rain Forest]

67pU0Ybovnc

How they pick their cotton in Xinjiang in real life??
Thank you for visiting xinjiang and showing what's happening instead of telling what's happening.

[Rain Forest]

eMWxIrEHGlgInterview with a Living Buddha Spiritual Leader at Tashi Lhunpo Monastery in Tibet.

[Rain Forest]

xdw1Nc6MJRg

American/Canadian Propaganda - a Xinjiang "Genocide" Panel

[Rain Forest]

JdCiGsV9myA

Western Corporate Imperialism in CHINA

[Rain Forest]

No more lies about China.


w2pvHG8e830

[Rain Forest]

No more lies about China. When people spread rumours from mainstream media,they are helping to provoke a war,the 3rd world war...


We hate the CCP but love Chinese people is bullsh*t

hW3N7Jj-_T4

some comments :


akira akira

"I live in the US and I've been hearing so much negative things and hatred about China that I got sick and tired and bought a plane ticket there to see it for myself. Stayed there for a month and found out everything told was complete BS. I even criticized the CCP government and nothing happened. It's all BS about being arrested, human rights abuse, etc...total BS. To my biggest surprise was I found so many American expats living there, and they all say american media is nothing else but BS and bad education. And regarding the policy about having one child, that only applies if you are living in central areas of big main cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, etc. where population is highly congested. If you live in the suburbs or smaller cities you can have as many kids as you want. You are also allowed to protest against the government as long as it's a non violent peaceful demonstration. Seen one when I was there and was inside the crowd with the protesters. Western media is nothing else but complete bullsh*t!"


"We don't hate Chinese people, we just want to destroy their country and way of life"

"Very true Fernando. CPC has become integrated part of China and China modern history. Hating CPC is hating Chinese, no doubt about that."

’History shows how much the West loves the Chinese and why stop with China.The nations that have had colonies have a record of treating their subjects with brutal authority ,and this only stopped when they were driving out .'

"The US regime also said the same thing with Venezuela, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afganistan, many countries in south america and list goes on and on. This only means that tthey want to destroy these countries."

"What do you mean I'd have to communicate with the Chinese people if I want change in their government, they should just do what I think!"

”You cannot love the son when you hate his father - African Proverb“

[Constance]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Rain Forest]

Most people on this planet are living in a zoo society and this includes the people of China. Most people wouldn't know what sovereignty looks like in the same way that animals who have been kept in captivity for generations in zoo's have no idea what their natural state is. It's time to leave zoo society and head out into the wilderness.

That is very true. That is also why i am guided here by a mysterious supernatural force:clapping:
Althoug in different zoos, the conditions and gamevrules vary a lot. Sometimes the difference is confusing,easy to cause disagreement. For example, many of the animals in zoo A feel superior to the animals in other zoos, and like to find fault with other animals in other zoos ,lauch one war after another.....

[Rain Forest]

something interesting. 120 years？

Oo8XCXc4mn4

“Is anyone else turning to Australia to get the real news? I love how they tell us what our so called media covers up. I love these guys.”

“Watching from Canada 🇨🇦 because our media here will never say the truth about anything."

“It’s a sad day for the US when we have to turn to a foreign press agency to hear the truth about our incompetent and corrupt political officials"

[Constance]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[ralfy]

Communism refers to the removal of private ownership of all means of production, and is very difficult to maintain. It's not against capitalism, though, which is why there's state capitalism.

Socialism is preferred because it leads to a mixed economy, but it's defined by a wide range of regulations. That also makes all economies by default socialist.

Capitalism refers to the process by which surplus revenues are reinvested to expand business operations, and thus production. It can involve Communism (i.e., state capitalism) and mixed economies (combinations of private and public enterprises, with various regulations, such as legal systems to legitimize private property and fiat currencies).

Free markets refer to societies in the past which didn't have those regulations. In which case, several objects were used as money and agreed upon by various parties, ownership determined through occupation and force, etc.

Free market capitalism, then, isn't exactly defined by a free market but more like a freer market, i.e., decreased regulation. That's because legal qualifications like what's mentioned above plus others, like charterships and limited liability, take place for more efficiency.

Given that, I think what China initially followed was Communism espoused by the Soviets, i.e., international Communism. But after that, it followed Maoism, or nationalist Communism. After four major failures and two reform programs, it managed to uplift the lives of over 800 million people, after which by the late 1980s, it began to promote export-oriented centralized economics but still through a one-party system. Other Asian countries have similar variations even though they're not Communist, such as Japan (which except for a few years has been run by one party) and Singapore.

Given that, one can argue that what China, and even Vietnam, has been doing is a variation of the so-called "East Asian Miracle," or state-sponsored capitalism, which was started by Japan and eventually accomplished by others, including South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, HK, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, and India.

In some ways, the same mercantilist policy can be seen in many other countries that are part of BRICS and forty emerging markets. It's not a new idea, as it started in Europe around three centuries ago, was promoted by both Britain and the U.S., and at least for Asia, is based on policies from nineteenth-century Prussia.

The most recent U.S. leader who promoted something close to that was Trump.

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

I am new to this forum, Project Avalon; I've not read the remarks in this thread.
I lived under Communism in China for 13 years, 11 in Nanjing, near Shanghai, and two years in Tibet, which was my 2nd time to Tibet. I've been to Tibet both prior and subsequent to the events of 2008. While in Nanjing I met the then Foreign Minister, Li Zhaoxing, and have spoken with a number of other ranking military (Nanjing has a large military command presence) and CCParty members. I had dinner with the top Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) leadership in Lhasa, and on another occasion in Lhasa I had dinner with Xi Jinping, now China Pres., in Tibet, the only American ever to do so. In 1995 I met H.H. The Dalai Lama in Atlanta.
For some of my thoughts on these things, including also the U.S. today, feel free to see my site:
https://twoyearsintibet.com
I also note a few personal experiences during my years there. There are also a number of photos, many of which were taken at significant personal risk.
I make no money from twoyearsintibet; there's nothing for sale nor any advertising. Thank you.

[Constance]

lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[Sue (Ayt)]

I read your web site journal from your application, TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing, and I read it all in one sitting, as I was so very intrigued by your experiences.
Your straight shooting, unbiased reporting was totally fascinating and informative to me. And your photos were simply amazing.
I learned a lot!
A sincere "thank you" for sharing it all with us here at PA.

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

Sue (Ayt),
Thank you very much for your very kind words. I had some unique experiences, and thoughts/impressions related to these experiences, that I wanted to express. I wanted to do it in a polite, civilized, decent manner trying not to be 'confrontational', addressing topics that many folks have strongly held views about, but I also wanted to be honestly forthright with my thoughts.
'You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar' as is said.
I've had reactions elsewhere, mostly from CCP 'trolls' trying not to present themselves as CCP 'trolls' who posted quite virulently hateful, emotionally charged remarks toward me personally....I apparently touched a sensitive nerve, which in some respects is what I wanted to do, but as politely and sensibly as I could manage.
There are bad people and bad ideologies in this world that must be exposed....and questions that must be asked.
I'm very worried about how things are in my country, USA, with such polarized divisiveness in how we are treating each other. While I had strongly held things to say, I didn't want to contribute to all this awful antagonism and ill-will so many folks feel for each other these days.
Thank you again for your kind words.
David

[Eva2]

Thank you for sharing your story which I read in one go - so interesting!

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

Jill,
Thank you very much for your kind thoughts, and your time to have read what I wrote.
David

[onawah]

Thanks David and welcome to Avalon. I think you will fit right in, and you've already made a great contribution.
I'm very curious about the 3 Gorges Dam in China, because if it fails anytime soon, it would be a huge calamity, and not just for China.
But it's very difficult finding any accurate news about it.
Do you have any current inside sources?
Thanks.

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

Onawah,
Thanks for your kind words. I am an irregular visitor, so please pardon any perceived delays in my response to any inquiry from yourself or anyone else.
It's difficult to get accurate information about goings-on in China, particularly information about 'big' things like the dam, or anything political. I don't like to make generalizations, but generally Chinese folks don't 'participate' politically...they never really have as they've always been subject to rule by an emperor, khan, warlord, or now the CCP, none of which allowed for/encouraged the participation of the general populace in political matters, as opposed to Western representative/Constitutional republics where it's the people's duty to hold their gov'ts accountable. (The U.S. isn't a democracy, which is essentially 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what to have for lunch....the sheep says 'I'll vote for a salad", and the wolves say "OK, you have a salad, a big one!, and then we'll vote on what we'll have for lunch! And how about some tasty chicken on that big salad too to make you nice and fat?, it's very fresh" to which the sheep replies, "Say, that reminds me, I haven't seen my friend Clucky the chicken today, I wonder where he is..." ha, ha!)
The 3 Gorges Dam is a damn dam, (and I'm from Tennessee, home of the TVA that, unlike that ridiculous 3 Gorges Dam, actually harnessed/controlled a complete river system with high dams on the Tennessee River tributaries for flood control and low dams with locks on the Tennessee River itself to allow for navigation), 3 Gorges Dam is a boondoggle disaster (the Chang Jiang/Yangtze still floods) that made a bunch of money for the Li Peng family. Li was in charge during the '89 Tiananmen demonstrations/ordered the crackdown. If it were to 'fail' in some way, cities immediately downstream would be severely flooded(many millions of people in these immediately downstream cities alone) with cities further down its flood plain also being affected but less so the further away they are. It would be an awful disaster for these folks along the Chang Jiang (Yangtze) flood basin; but for the rest of China, the effect would be more economic, rather than actual direct flooding, with a severe impact on food production as a lot of farmland, which is in the Chang Jiang basin, would be flooded. Depending on the nature/severity of a 'failure', the people would naturally be quite upset with the CCP as well. I've seen some satellite photos on the internet of the 3 Gorges Dam now 'bent' in places....I certainly wouldn't want to be immediately down-river from it.

I do maintain contacts in China......

On another matter, the Wuhan Virus, the 'official' story is that it came from a fresh market to which I say nonsense. I would go to these markets, which exist in every neighborhood in every city and town in China and have so for many thousands of years just like they exist today, easily once a week for the nearly 13 years I was in China regularly buying my vegetables, eggs and meat at these markets having never gotten sick once, never. I most probably have also, UNKNOWINGLY!, eaten dog meat as well. I know for a fact it's been served to me which I politely declined; it looked like dark, stringy pulled pork. So I know these markets, and I know the CCP. While I of course know nothing for certain about the virus, my assessment based on my knowledge of both the fresh markets and the CCP is that it's most certainly from the Wuhan virology lab, enhanced with gain-of-function properties. This is pretty much all I'll venture to say about the virus; anything else would be complete speculation.
The fact is, I don't know, about either the virus or the effect of a 3 Gorges Dam 'failure'. All I can offer is only some slightly educated speculation.
OK, that's all for now...busy, many things to do....
Thank you...

[Gemma13]

Much appreciate your personal contributions David.

According to some, these arrests over organ harvesting are CCP SPIN to show the world that they are the good guys.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/jailing-of-4-doctors-for-illegal-organ-extraction-in-china-casts-spotlight-on-forced-organ-harvesting_3791016.html?utm_source=newsnoe&utm_medium=email2&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-26-1&mktids=110e802f14bdac7503d4ee6bf582cd6d&est=%5BEMAIL_SECURE_LINK%5D

Do you have any anecdotals on how Chinese citizens feel about the organ harvesting dilemma and/or treatment of Falun Gong practitioners?

[Bill Ryan]

I'm joining the chorus of members here who are delighted you're here with us to share your many fascinating stories.

Do by all means copy as much as you like from https://twoyearsintibet.com and also post it here (or on a standalone thread if more appropriate: the mods team can easily move anything around).

My own question, if I may: can you comment on the Chinese Social Credit system?

We recently had a number of posts from an expat Chinese woman (username Rain Forest (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?47799-Rain-Forest), now resident in Canada) to the effect that all that was an exaggerated untruth, hyped by the western anti-CCP propaganda machine. (My paraphrase.) I'd be confident you could supply us with a balanced, first-hand account.

[ByTheNorthernSea]

Hi David, forgive my possibly naive question, but we hear so much speculation that the CCP is actively implementing a long-term plan to eventually dominate & control the world, did you ever hear anything first-hand to back this up?

Fantastic BTW to have you here & to listen your experiences & views on what is a fascinating but still very much closed off (at least to us here in the West) country such as China.

[Agape]

I came across this interesting question and answer being posted on Quora,

If the Chinese system is so effective why does it only work in China and not in other developing nations ? (https://www.quora.com/If-the-Chinese-system-is-so-effective-why-does-it-only-work-in-China-and-isnt-being-adopted-by-other-developing-nations/answer/Zhao-Dashuai)

Understand Quora is another forum-like platform where anybody can post questions and anyone can reply but people with doctoral degrees compete for the best answers , in some cases.
There is lots of interesting material but is politically controlled in subtle ways just like the rest of your media and strategically pro Chinese.

Even then, the first answer to the question of “Chinese social credit system” traces its origins somewhere back to the Qing dynasty and further, teachings of Confucius ( likewise Buddha and Lao’tzu ) who all taught by principle that person should be judged by his merit not by his birth.



Check also for painting of Confucius


( 🙏 )

[LJY]

I'm joining the chorus of members here who are delighted you're here with us to share your many fascinating stories.

Do by all means copy as much as you like from https://twoyearsintibet.com and also post it here (or on a standalone thread if more appropriate: the mods team can easily move anything around).

My own question, if I may: can you comment on the Chinese Social Credit system?

We recently had a number of posts from an expat Chinese woman (username Rain Forest (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?47799-Rain-Forest), now resident in Canada) to the effect that all that was an exaggerated untruth, hyped by the western anti-CCP propaganda machine. (My paraphrase.) I'd be confident you could supply us with a balanced, first-hand account.

I couldn't help laughing when I saw her post. Don't get me wrong, I was not laughing at her post, just for those kinds of comments and ways of thinking was so familiar to me. It even made me feel at home, haha. Her post reflected a very very typical way of how Chinese people seeing what is happening now in China and in the world. Bill, I have to say that she indeed represents what lots of Chinese people, old or young, are thinking and believing at the moment.

I haven't been back to China for years, so I can't say what I am saying is the complete real situation now in China, but from the perceptions of my families and friends in China and some Chinese social media comments, I feel that people in China completely haven't realised how dangerous this social credit system can be.

I didn't do any research on this issue before, but passively heard some discussions about this in Chinese half official media. It has been controversial, but people very likely wouldn't really resist the rolling out once the central/local governments determined to implement the credit system

It seems that this social credit system is mainly rolled out in country side, some relatively remote and unwealthy villages, at the current stage, and with a few big cities on trial (I'm not sure of this, but from the news I heard, I feel like this way). People in unwealthy small villages are easier to control and more obedient.

I think I probably kind of am able to understand why some expat Chinese would support things happening in China (surely there were paid trolls) even though the reason why they chose to leave China was related to disatisfactions towards Chinese society or things happened in China. Being an easterner in the west is never easy, sometimes people get lost and struggle with who they are. Although there would always be other ways of finding who we are, sometimes it would seem to be only two ways -- to try to forget who I am and get lost or to remember firmly that I am a Chinese. It is really not easy to remember or understand clearly all the time that you are your soul.
When expat Chinese try to protect ourselves from the cultural shock (some people may believe that cultural shock is the first few years thing, actually it can be a lifelong thing), we can forget why we left China, we can love China, our motherland, with "unconditional love", no matter what is happening there. And people can also forget the difference between China, the land and people, and Chinese governments. This cultural and psychological difficulties can be taken advantage of politically.

[LJY]

Falun Gong practitioners probably have a bad name as bad as KKK in US, or Natzi in Germany, if I can make that metaphor. Even if I am a bit exaggerated, you could imagine how Chinese people see Falun Gong and its practitioners. They see them as bad ( if not evil) secret cult. And I myself held the same idea for years, even after I came overseas and saw flyers on the street saying that CCP harvesting organs from innocent Falun Gong practitioners, I just didn't believe it, until years later, I saw an extraordinarily dead body exhibition, I shockingly believed it was all true.

However, to most of people in China, I don't see a way, in a near future, that could let the Chinese public know what was really going on to Falun Gong in those years.

By the way, I still don't have a good impression to Falun Gong though. I doubt they've been working for US democratics or Chinese Jiang Zemin political power group.

Sorry, David. I responded two questions which were for you:shielddeflect:. I just felt that I have something to say on those questions. Eager to hear your thoughts:bigsmile:

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

Oh!, thank you all for your interest and remarks! I'm quite humbled/honored, especially in light of the reactions on a couple other different web site articles' comment sections of some of the CCP high school/college kids who think their English is good enough to pass themselves off as non-Chinese from elsewhere, often the U.S. Another giveaway is a bit more subtle, but if you've spent enough time in China, it is noticeable, and that is (again I'm generalizing as in my previous post...) how they react to/deal with/instigate 'confrontation'. One of the first things I learned when I first got to China, 2/05, from some old-hand expatriates was never to confront/show anger/emotion when faced with some problem, that it would only make things worse as not only would the problem remain but because I would've 'confronted' someone about some problem/trouble I felt they were giving me, then the issue of 'losing face' also arises. Yes, sure there are often situations when Chinese are openly angry/emotional with each other, but to do it like we do in the West...we think nothing of being open, blunt and direct with each other in just about any situation, but the Chinese are far more 'circuitous' about things. So, I think we in the West are more nuanced and in control when 'confronting', especially when it's of a lower level...we can, in my mind, control the level/intensity of 'confrontation' better, because it's part of our social behavior. Chinese in social situations do just about everything they can to avoid 'confronting', to 'save face'; for us 'confrontation' is just another standard/normal part of how our society operates, so, in my mind, we're more used to it. So, in these comment sections' remarks I can see, to me, odd levels of confrontational intensity in these 'CCP trolls' language/tone, such as a very first comment might be extremely virulent and personally hateful (one even, clearly trying to goad me, talked about my Dad (a WWII paratrooper I describe in my site) being "a trained killer"....ouch!, very insulting! not nice at all! even though technically he was right, soldiers ARE 'trained killers', but my Dad was a trained Nazi-killer) turning the confrontational intensity all the way up to 10 right out of the gate when we Westerners, generally, might be at a 3 or 4.

Anyway, thus far, you folks, those that have taken the trouble to comment, are being quite nice to me, thank you very much.
I'll respond as I can to everyone, but in a couple days please...I'm busy and I want to thoroughly address everyone as best I can (you all were kind enough to have commented/asked about some things & without being hateful/nasty, thank you again!, so it's only decent/polite for me to respond in kind) so I need a bit of time please....I'll respond back here in a couple days....right now I'm in fact running out of time to finish this message!
So, I'll end this post now with something, all I have time for at the moment, so sorry! an old China hand told me when I first arrived there which stuck in my mind all these years since.
He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "You've been in China for 3 weeks and you feel you could write a book about it, 3 months in China and you could write an article about it, 3 years in China and you have nothing to say." (But after my own 13 years, now I've got all kinds of things to say, so I kind of blew that notion out of the water, ha!) Anyway, it took a long time for me to get my head wrapped around his remark....my distillation is this: in China if it can possibly exist within the realm of human experience, it exists there, so what is there to say?
OK, out of time, must go now. I'll respond back soon.
Thank you very much....

[Andre]

This part of the old timer's description sounds like they all preferred to be clones - same food, clothes, cars, everything. Same thoughts too I imagine. Sounds like hell to me.


I asked him through a translator ( my wife ) do you like democracy? He told me he Hated it! As he continued he told me under communism everyone was equal. Same apartment. Same food. Same clothes. Same car. Same everything. Everyone was the same in this sense. What you believed was the same. Etc. Etc. No theft etc because you would just get more of the same. After all that had happened to this man in Communism he told me he would still pick Communism.

[TomKat]

Hi Gemma13,

I believe there is a great misunderstanding on what's going on these days on China, Russia and related countries/regions

As it really stands right now, people on west have continued to believe that "communism" is a thing, and a danger for years and years to come. However, that's not even the case anymore, but please allow me to explain a bit

On Russia, China and other "communist" countries, there is a movement growing, specifically in young people, which is named something like "uber-modernity"

This is kind of communism, or socialistic beliefs, but not quite, it has dropped all they considered caused the last iteration to fail, specifically why the USSR died under its own weight

There are several, multinational groups forming youth armies and reaching into students to teach this new approach to their world view, one that drops all the mistakes from the past, conforms a new view and philosophy around the old principles, while avoiding introducing the mistakes from the past and so on

You can look more into that if you go search for stuff like the "Essence of Time" cult, among several others "youth armies" around those places

*By the way i don't subscribe or belong to any, i just know about them

What i see is this, most people in the west keep looking into communism as a danger, while most eastern young (8 to 28 or so) keep looking into how the communist view is obsolete and retarded, and push for a new view which the west is not even aware of

By the time the west realizes that they were not looking at the right place, it will be too late, because most young people in the east believe the old communist views are done for, and they have their own views, which are not even acknowledged on the west, by own choice, or lack of. There is a complete view which is out of sync with reality

While in the east most people learn about real hard history and prepare for a hard future (see the Russian youth army, or the Nashi), in the US at least more kids the same age can not even write their own language, much less understand implications of wars or politics and so

While in the East a Nashi or youth army kid can disassemble a rifle and reassemble in 30 seconds, in the US kids can only watch Tiktok all day and talk half English written sentences and play with guns on games, while the eastern kids play with real guns and go take advanced classes of history, math and science

Current US army stands around 1+ million soldiers, just alone, in Russia, the youth army is closing in on that number. This means, kids from 8 years to 17 are in the numbers of 800 thousand, all well prepared, all with high education, all ready for combat, and same in China and other eastern countries

And example of this approach to life is something like this

Western kid: 1+1 = 2
Asian kid: 1 is followed by 1.1, then 1.2, then 1.3... and so on, until you reach 2

Discernment among all things, clear understanding of the world is a must, not just to pass an exam, or have a high level view. This applies to every single aspect of life, since it's considered a good practice and commitment to excellence

But this is inheritance of the elders on the west, there's no one else to blame, just to be clear on that and to be just, no one else caused it

I believe, western countries are not even aware of what's really going on in the world. Communism, for the new people on the east, is ridiculously obsolete. Yet look at news channels and papers on western countries, it's funny, they still go by the old standards that matter nothing at all anymore. Once the new generation comes into power in both sides, one will be prepared, the other one will try to apply obsolete knowledge to people that don't even care anymore. That's what "being left behind" looks like in the end

The only reason why western countries believe China is "communist" is because they can't understand what's happening and attempt to apply obsolete views into a country they can't understand at all, and that's why they continue to fall behind year after year. It is obvious if you look from the outside, but lamentably not so for people on the inside

ETA:

I guess what i'm really trying to say is this

IF you would try to apply the current western understanding of communism to your own countries, it would be a total disaster, because even people on China and Russia, just threw it out to garbage bin

In Russia, the Soviets are still around, claiming power and their money back, yet they kept saying back then, that those things did not matter :) In the end it did matter i guess

The new concepts are completely unknown in western world, and i believe that's why people think those can be applied freely, if possible, however that's not and probably will never be the case "heaven forbid" lol. Repeating the same mistakes of the past is not a good thing to do

Even after tons of decades, there's still a giant confusion about the difference between communism and socialism

Youth armies? Sounds like Communism died and Fascism was born, both in China and Russia. But isn't that always the case? State-owned businesses always fail without subsidies and Fascism is just more practical. Communism has always been turn-key Fascism.

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

OK, here are a few comments, for whatever they might be worth.....

________________________________________________
"According to some, these arrests over organ harvesting are CCP SPIN to show the world that they are the good guys.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_br...SECURE_LINK%5D
Do you have any anecdotals on how Chinese citizens feel about the organ harvesting dilemma and/or treatment of Falun Gong practitioners?"

A number of my remarks here are generalizations, there are of course be exceptions. Generally, ordinary Chinese ‘go along to get along’, speaking out/expressing one’s own individual mind about…, especially about political or ‘sensitive’ social matters is generally viewed as ‘rocking the boat’/causing trouble. Confucian ‘harmony’ in society is highly valued in China, something the CCP takes advantage of greatly to insure their grip on power. The CCP does everything it can to legitimize itself (remember Communism is a foreign ideology from a, very un-Han Chinese European Jew), such as whenever the Party presents itself to the People in Tiananmen Square they never position themselves in front of the edifice of Chinese Communist State power, the Great Hall of the People, but rather always up on the dais of Tiananmen Gate itself with the Forbidden City behind them, the traditional seat of Imperial Chinese power, to link the CCP with traditional Imperial China. Tiananmen Square is laid out with the Great Hall of the People and the China National Museum on opposing sides with Mao’s mausoleum and Tiananmen Gate leading into the Forbidden City on the other opposing sides. These sorts of things, political and socially ‘sensitive’, ordinary Chinese speak little of, openly, so as not to ‘rock the boat’/attract the Party’s attention to themselves. Also, many ordinary Chinese don’t know about things like the organ harvesting, it’s certainly not covered in any ‘news’ broadcasts, and is in fact ‘kept under wraps. Falun Gong is essentially dead in China, no one would dare to practice it openly in public as had been done so in the past, especially in large groups. If practiced at all, it is done in secret in the privacy of one’s home. And the Party has brainwashed much of the population into believing Falun Gong/Falun Dafa is an unbeneficial 'cult' practice that encourages ‘disharmony’.

“…CCP spin to show the world that they are the good guys.” Well, yes, I suppose to a degree this is the case, but China/the CCP doesn’t really give a damn what the world thinks of them. They see themselves as the ‘representatives’ of a culture/society that has existed continuously through many great ups and downs for many thousands of years who answers to no one, certainly not anyone from the upstart ‘new kids on the block’ West with its active, direct participation of the people in their own governance, seen as an anomalous aberration by the CCP in the course of human history that will, in time, naturally fail of its own accord. The CCP sees something like, for instance, a Brooklyn bartender (crack-pot Socialist AOC) getting directly from a bartender, via election by the, to me, apparently foolish voters in her district, to a seat in Congress, as ridiculous. Such a thing would never happen in Communist China. To rise to a position of power one would have to join the Party, taking the oath of loyalty/allegiance, and over time, via demonstrated local governing competence and more so showing ideological orthodoxy and obedience, slowly rising through the ranks to higher positions of power. There is also, however, the traditional Chinese societal element of ‘guanxi’ (loosely and not really accurately translated as ‘relationships’) that plays a part along with outright Old World corruption as well.
___________________________________________

"I'm joining the chorus of members here who are delighted you're here with us to share your many fascinating stories.
Do by all means copy as much as you like from https://twoyearsintibet.com and also post it here (or on a standalone thread if more appropriate: the mods team can easily move anything around)."

Thank you very much, Mr. Ryan. I may very well do that......
___________________________________________________

"My own question, if I may: can you comment on the Chinese Social Credit system?
We recently had a number of posts from an expat Chinese woman (username Rain Forest, now resident in Canada) to the effect that all that was an exaggerated untruth, hyped by the western anti-CCP propaganda machine. (My paraphrase.) I'd be confident you could supply us with a balanced, first-hand account."

I'm not sure how "balanced" I am, but.....I left China in 2018; this social credit system wasn’t really up and running/fully in place then.
I’ve had a few communications with contacts since then about it. Under the CCP there’s always been an unofficial sort of ‘scoring system’, but primarily for political/socially ‘sensitive’ things. This new social credit score system, now more official/codified, is now including non-political behavior such as economic, e.g. if one were to get a loan from a bank and not pay it off properly, then you’re scored negatively, or for more ‘ordinary’ less socially ‘sensitive’ conduct that is seen as ‘inharmonious’, such as someone who is a ‘problem’ drinker, often getting drunk, causing fights publicly, causing commotion at home bothering the neighbors who then complain to the neighborhood/building CCP cadres….these sorts of things are now part of the scoring system, which the people don’t like…..it’s a gradual tightening of the screws of control on the people that in the past was pretty much only in the political/socially ‘sensitive’ arena, now it involves more ‘ordinary’ aspects of daily life, so the Chinese generally don’t like it, but there’s nothing they can really do about it, so they ‘go along to get along.
_____________________________________________________

"Hi David, forgive my possibly naive question, but we hear so much speculation that the CCP is actively implementing a long-term plan to eventually dominate & control the world, did you ever hear anything first-hand to back this up?
Fantastic BTW to have you here & to listen your experiences & views on what is a fascinating but still very much closed off (at least to us here in the West) country such as China."

Thank you, Yes I've heard such from a few Party members, but not so much as something that requires active instigating to achieve, Communists/Socialists see their way as a ‘natural’ progression of human/social development, that the West’s way of active, direct participation of the People in their own governance, and general Freedom on the part of the populace, is an anomalous aberration historically that will over time fail of its own accord, but they also do actively work to ‘nudge’ their ideology along/speed up what they see as its ‘natural’ progression.
________________________________________________________________

"I came across this interesting question and answer being posted on Quora,
If the Chinese system is so effective why does it only work in China and not in other developing nations ?
Understand Quora is another forum-like platform where anybody can post questions and anyone can reply but people with doctoral degrees compete for the best answers , in some cases.
There is lots of interesting material but is politically controlled in subtle ways just like the rest of your media and strategically pro Chinese.
Even then, the first answer to the question of “Chinese social credit system” traces its origins somewhere back to the Qing dynasty and further, teachings of Confucius ( likewise Buddha and Lao’tzu ) who all taught by principle that person should be judged by his merit not by his birth.
Check also for painting of Confucius"

What is meant in the question by “Chinese system”, the CCP with its ‘Chinese characteristics’ or traditional Chinese Confucianism? And “so effective” how, in what “effective” manner? For instance, when the Party/gov’t decides to build some new subway system, it just goes out and does it, quite effectively, but also by possibly razing entire neighborhoods, etc. paying now displaced home and business owners far less than what their homes/businesses are worth, so in this sense a totalitarian/Communist/State gov’t is in such respects, “effective”. In the West, our gov’ts with so much public participation can be quite messy and seemingly chaotic in making decisions about things like if/how/when/where to put in a new subway line for instance. When I first arrived in China, (Nanjing) in Feb 2005, a few months later the city’s first brand new subway line opened, very modern, sleek and efficient. Over the years many more lines were built including, along with a separate vehicle, car/truck, tunnel as well, one tunneled under the very broad Yangtze River to a suburb…..with just the decision of the CCP to do it, no public meetings for instance where local residents could bitch/complain/offer input about how this infrastructure plan would be implemented through their neighborhoods. I came back to the US, Atlanta, and saw how one of Atlanta’s MARTA subway lines from years ago still only went to the beginning suburb area, (Doraville station), when the growth of the city seemingly warranted expansion of the subway line further into suburban Gwinnett County, but it had never occurred apparently due to an inability to come to a consensus by local gov’ts and citizenry if it should occur and how, etc.
So, in a sense, Communist totalitarianism is in some respects more “effective”…..but personally I’ll take messy, chaotic Freedom any day.

I’m not very clear about what you’re getting at/mean with this, very sorry: “Even then, the first answer to the question of “Chinese social credit system” traces its origins somewhere back to the Qing dynasty and further, teachings of Confucius ( likewise Buddha and Lao’tzu ) who all taught by principle that person should be judged by his merit not by his birth.”
_____________________________________________________________________

"We recently had a number of posts from an expat Chinese woman (username Rain Forest, now resident in Canada) to the effect that all that was an exaggerated untruth, hyped by the western anti-CCP propaganda machine. (My paraphrase.) I'd be confident you could supply us with a balanced, first-hand account.
I couldn't help laughing when I saw her post. Don't get me wrong, I was not laughing at her post, just for those kinds of comments and ways of thinking was so familiar to me. It even made me feel at home, haha. Her post reflected a very very typical way of how Chinese people seeing what is happening now in China and in the world. Bill, I have to say that she indeed represents what lots of Chinese people, old or young, are thinking and believing at the moment.
I haven't been back to China for years, so I can't say what I am saying is the complete real situation now in China, but from the perceptions of my families and friends in China and some Chinese social media comments, I feel that people in China completely haven't realised how dangerous this social credit system can be.
I didn't do any research on this issue before, but passively heard some discussions about this in Chinese half official media. It has been controversial, but people very likely wouldn't really resist the rolling out once the central/local governments determined to implement the credit system
It seems that this social credit system is mainly rolled out in country side, some relatively remote and unwealthy villages, at the current stage, and with a few big cities on trial (I'm not sure of this, but from the news I heard, I feel like this way). People in unwealthy small villages are easier to control and more obedient.
I think I probably kind of am able to understand why some expat Chinese would support things happening in China (surely there were paid trolls) even though the reason why they chose to leave China was related to disatisfactions towards Chinese society or things happened in China. Being an easterner in the west is never easy, sometimes people get lost and struggle with who they are. Although there would always be other ways of finding who we are, sometimes it would seem to be only two ways -- to try to forget who I am and get lost or to remember firmly that I am a Chinese. It is really not easy to remember or understand clearly all the time that you are your soul.
When expat Chinese try to protect ourselves from the cultural shock (some people may believe that cultural shock is the first few years thing, actually it can be a lifelong thing), we can forget why we left China, we can love China, our motherland, with "unconditional love", no matter what is happening there. And people can also forget the difference between China, the land and people, and Chinese governments. This cultural and psychological difficulties can be taken advantage of politically.
Falun Gong practitioners probably have a bad name as bad as KKK in US, or Natzi in Germany, if I can make that metaphor. Even if I am a bit exaggerated, you could imagine how Chinese people see Falun Gong and its practitioners. They see them as bad ( if not evil) secret cult. And I myself held the same idea for years, even after I came overseas and saw flyers on the street saying that CCP harvesting organs from innocent Falun Gong practitioners, I just didn't believe it, until years later, I saw an extraordinarily dead body exhibition, I shockingly believed it was all true.
However, to most of people in China, I don't see a way, in a near future, that could let the Chinese public know what was really going on to Falun Gong in those years.
By the way, I still don't have a good impression to Falun Gong though. I doubt they've been working for US democratics or Chinese Jiang Zemin political power group.
Sorry, David. I responded two questions which were for you . I just felt that I have something to say on those questions. Eager to hear your thoughts"

I understand, thank you very much, there are some good points here. I certainly understand about the 'culture shock', both for Chinese in the West and Westerners in China. For an ordinary American Tennessee man like myself, China is in many respects a real 'trip', sometimes literally.....(luggage packing tip for any visit to China: Leave the LSD or any other psychedelics at home, not necessary!) As to Falun Gong, my impression is that it's simply a positive practice to improve one's bodily health and spiritual well-being, a good thing generally, but the CCP saw it as a threat to their 'authority', so they of course demonized it.
_____________________________________________________________

"This part of the old timer's description sounds like they all preferred to be clones - same food, clothes, cars, everything. Same thoughts too I imagine. Sounds like hell to me.
Posted by chancy (here)
I asked him through a translator ( my wife ) do you like democracy? He told me he Hated it! As he continued he told me under communism everyone was equal. Same apartment. Same food. Same clothes. Same car. Same everything. Everyone was the same in this sense. What you believed was the same. Etc. Etc. No theft etc because you would just get more of the same. After all that had happened to this man in Communism he told me he would still pick Communism."

I can understand this; he’s used to and comfortable with the ‘order’ and ‘safety’ of Communism; Freedom is messy, chaotic, and risky……you enjoy the fruits of your own success and suffer the pain of your own failures. Communism/Socialism is for ‘children’ who aren’t grown-up enough yet to accept/handle the risk that is Freedom, that the State/gov’t should ‘take care’ of me.
______________________________________________________

" Posted by Mashika (here)
Hi Gemma13,
I believe there is a great misunderstanding on what's going on these days on China, Russia and related countries/regions
As it really stands right now, people on west have continued to believe that "communism" is a thing, and a danger for years and years to come. However, that's not even the case anymore, but please allow me to explain a bit
On Russia, China and other "communist" countries, there is a movement growing, specifically in young people, which is named something like "uber-modernity"
This is kind of communism, or socialistic beliefs, but not quite, it has dropped all they considered caused the last iteration to fail, specifically why the USSR died under its own weight
There are several, multinational groups forming youth armies and reaching into students to teach this new approach to their world view, one that drops all the mistakes from the past, conforms a new view and philosophy around the old principles, while avoiding introducing the mistakes from the past and so on
You can look more into that if you go search for stuff like the "Essence of Time" cult, among several others "youth armies" around those places
*By the way i don't subscribe or belong to any, i just know about them
What i see is this, most people in the west keep looking into communism as a danger, while most eastern young (8 to 28 or so) keep looking into how the communist view is obsolete and retarded, and push for a new view which the west is not even aware of
By the time the west realizes that they were not looking at the right place, it will be too late, because most young people in the east believe the old communist views are done for, and they have their own views, which are not even acknowledged on the west, by own choice, or lack of. There is a complete view which is out of sync with reality
While in the east most people learn about real hard history and prepare for a hard future (see the Russian youth army, or the Nashi), in the US at least more kids the same age can not even write their own language, much less understand implications of wars or politics and so
While in the East a Nashi or youth army kid can disassemble a rifle and reassemble in 30 seconds, in the US kids can only watch Tiktok all day and talk half English written sentences and play with guns on games, while the eastern kids play with real guns and go take advanced classes of history, math and science
Current US army stands around 1+ million soldiers, just alone, in Russia, the youth army is closing in on that number. This means, kids from 8 years to 17 are in the numbers of 800 thousand, all well prepared, all with high education, all ready for combat, and same in China and other eastern countries
And example of this approach to life is something like this
Western kid: 1+1 = 2
Asian kid: 1 is followed by 1.1, then 1.2, then 1.3... and so on, until you reach 2
Discernment among all things, clear understanding of the world is a must, not just to pass an exam, or have a high level view. This applies to every single aspect of life, since it's considered a good practice and commitment to excellence
But this is inheritance of the elders on the west, there's no one else to blame, just to be clear on that and to be just, no one else caused it
I believe, western countries are not even aware of what's really going on in the world. Communism, for the new people on the east, is ridiculously obsolete. Yet look at news channels and papers on western countries, it's funny, they still go by the old standards that matter nothing at all anymore. Once the new generation comes into power in both sides, one will be prepared, the other one will try to apply obsolete knowledge to people that don't even care anymore. That's what "being left behind" looks like in the end
The only reason why western countries believe China is "communist" is because they can't understand what's happening and attempt to apply obsolete views into a country they can't understand at all, and that's why they continue to fall behind year after year. It is obvious if you look from the outside, but lamentably not so for people on the inside
ETA:
I guess what i'm really trying to say is this
IF you would try to apply the current western understanding of communism to your own countries, it would be a total disaster, because even people on China and Russia, just threw it out to garbage bin
In Russia, the Soviets are still around, claiming power and their money back, yet they kept saying back then, that those things did not matter In the end it did matter i guess
The new concepts are completely unknown in western world, and i believe that's why people think those can be applied freely, if possible, however that's not and probably will never be the case "heaven forbid" lol. Repeating the same mistakes of the past is not a good thing to do
Even after tons of decades, there's still a giant confusion about the difference between communism and socialism
Youth armies? Sounds like Communism died and Fascism was born, both in China and Russia. But isn't that always the case? State-owned businesses always fail without subsidies and Fascism is just more practical. Communism has always been turn-key Fascism."

Thanks for your remarks; I’m afraid I’m not altogether clear on them, very sorry, but I think I get the general gist of what you’re getting at,….I think.
Officially, China is and considers itself to be ‘Communist’; it’s all in the language of gov’t/State pronouncements, there are portraits of Mao, and often Marx, Engels, Lenin & Stalin (as depicted in my site) displayed not only in gov’t buildings, but often businesses as well. In Mao’s mausoleum where his body is on display, he is not covered in the Chinese flag, with its four small stars representing the 1)farmer, 2)worker(as in a factory), 3)intellectual(teachers, writers, etc.) and 4)soldier, & single large star representing the Communist Party, but rather Mao is draped in the hammer and sickle flag of the Communist Soviet Union. Yet, and especially so since its increasing openness, China’s young people are more and more enamored with Western culture and freedom. Chinese young people are very much trying to find their own place, individually, in the greater world at large, to express themselves as individuals, such as in their choice of clothing, hair styles, etc. In my site I quote a CCP official's remark to me, “Foreigners are poison”. He was absolutely right….China’s youth is slowly being ‘infected’ by Western ideas of individuality and individual freedom, but this isn’t to say Chinese youth are also less patriotic and supportive of their country, and gov’t, they are, generally, very patriotic, proud (rightfully so) of their many thousands of years of culture, traditions, achievements, but they’re also very ‘into’ outside influences and ideas. For instance, Chinese, and especially in Nanjing, absolutely hate the Japanese for what was done to them in WWII (Rape of Nanking, Unit 731, etc), but they, especially Chinese young people, are very much ‘into’ Japanese culture, such as anime. They love Western movies, sports, and music. Lhasa, Tibet actually has a few rock and roll bands!!!, including this all-girl rock band (that I had taken a bit of video of that I fear I’ve since accidentally deleted!), young high school-ish age with their electric guitars, bass, drums all playing as hard as they could, just like American kids in a garage band…it was really something!!!!!! So, while China is in some respects increasingly ‘Westernizing’(in some respects), we stupid Westerners are becoming more Socialistic/Communistic, not realizing how fortunate we are to have the Freedom that we do.

But I knew all the talk, from these globalists SOBs, about how when China was 'opened up', got all our Western investment, manufacturing relocation, became pat of the WTO, etc, that China would become more 'liberalized', freer, Westernized, that it was basically BS, and the globalists knew it was BS (globalists want the world to be more Socialist/Communist like China to allow them for more control/power over us, as in their disgusting 'Great Reset'..."you'll own nothing and you'll be happy" in the spirit of Socialist abolition of private property, etc.). China is China....

I would see on WeChat, the now ubiquitous phone social media/messaging thing in China ads for jobs for foreigners placed by Chinese saying things like "foreigner wanted for XXXX job, no blacks wanted, white people only", or "no ugly people wanted", things like this, and newly arrived American college kids full of their piss & vinegar 'social justice warrior' selves getting all 'triggered' about how racist China is, etc. and that it "must be stopped!", to which I thought, 'Good luck with that you naive kids'......You don't change China; China changes you.

I had to look up this quote used to describe China I’d been familiar with for a long time, something to the effect that China is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. Turns out it was from Churchill commenting about the Soviet Union & WWII, but has been applied to China in years since. In many respects I agree, China is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

Ok, that's it. Thanks again very much for your interest folks.

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

There was a college age Chinese guy I met in Nanjing who, like many Chinese young people these days, was really into 'foreign' things, Western culture....he dressed in a bit more individual, daring way with blue jeans & a leather jacket like a James Dean rebel type, smoked, and had longish hair that was slicked over like a '50s greaser tough guy, even had a tattoo, and he acted the part too.
So, he's telling me how he thinks America is so "cool" because we're "free to do what we want", etc.... and I ask what kind of music he liked, thinking he'd answer with some hard rock/heavy metal 'bad boy' rock n' rollers....he says...

"Sarah Brightman"

East is east and West is west and never the twain shall meet....in some ways so very true!, in other ways...?????

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

Hopefully my upload works....here's an example of a foreign influence 'poisoning' China.....in Lhasa no less.
Warning, extremely graphic!

(Actually, this sort of thing is common in China, mostly so in cities, but not so much in the West, Tibet/Xizang, Xinjiang, Qinghai, Gansu)

[LJY]

Wow, thanks a lot for your sharing, David! :flower::happythumbsup:

I agree with you on all the reality you said about China, and what you saw was really profound. but I probably have some different perceptions regarding the reading of the reality in China. I don't think it'd be very necessary to discuss my different opinion in details. I just wanted to sigh that this really is a divided world.
I don't have the answer, I don't know anything. But I know when Chinese people feel proud of China's thousands years continued history which is oldest continued civilization existing nowadays. I know they don't understand. When the young men in China are patriotic, feeling they got to guard China again whatever, I know they don't understand.
Same, when western people are proud of their freedom compared with situations in China, I sometimes wanted to ask "really? Western people are really having more freedom of thinking and freedom of acting than Chinese people?" My own answer is "maybe, but not much."

Freedom of speech is overdefended, IMO. Surely freedom of speech is the cornerstone for freedom of thinking. But today, there are more and more freedom of speaking nonsense. I really don't think it's much better than China's not allowing people to say anything. It's better, but not much.

Communism has been discussed so much by people. I believe many people advocating communism don't really understand what commism really is. How could people know? Communism is a lie, is never a real thing, is a cover up for the globlists' real goal. Communism supporters support it for the expectations that they could have a more fair and organized society. They obviously are not supporting totalitarian and being made into a robotic working slave. They simply fall into the future described by those pro-communism globalists. Same, to those who believe communism supporters are insane, how could they make sure that they are not falling into any lies which describe them a bright future?

As long as the east and the west both hold the idea of me better than you in whatever aspects, political system, economic system, or cultural and history, etc. that'd be an endless resources for the division of the world.

A psychic youtuber I once watched said that all the wars, natual disasters, basically all bad things happening in the world is nothing more than a three dimensional reflection of the unbalanced thoughts or energy or something in human collective consciousness. I didn't understand that before, but now I have a better understanding of what that means.

I myself is confused now, and always. I'm finding a balance between not being judgemental and having my own firm stand.

Thank you very much, David. I'm not sure if I sounded emotional somewhere in the post. If I did, I didn't mean it. I indeed felt a bit emotional when I saw some parts of your views and Andre's comments about Chinese liking to be clones stuff. I definitely know those don't mean anything malicious, they are your points of view, but I would definitely haved trolled you if I saw this one year ago. Hahaha :p while now, after struggling so long time with who I am, I decided to see myself as an earth human, nothing more. That helps a lot.

[Agape]

I feel there is a time when every human society and long surviving culture or say, whole genomic clusters of people start searching for their roots and their spiritual selves.

European cultures got themselves short hair cuts and tried to cut off their religious tail at about the same time they did it in China.

For most of the 20th century and through two world wars, religious and spiritual trends were meticulously silenced to the edge of their extinction,
while eugenic experiments aimed at producing line of new better humans ,
China has imposed strict one child policy in thoughtful attempt to control population growth.

The war for human genes has been set. The war for production of official clones and human robots long after they’ve experimented with in dark military labs.

“Who else did it”.


And so forth.

But just as I’ve said at the beginning I believe there is a time for every civilisation to remember themselves more, define themselves in better terms,
with expanding knowledge field consciousness also expands.

The young new generation of kids today are times faster and times wiser than some of their grandparents were. They can “sort you out” in half minute.

They are serious though, they don’t want to hear any lies about history or themselves and they are starting to search again for cultural and spiritual values their parents lost.

Generations move evolution of consciousness by steps, may be big leaps at some point.

I would never underestimate China has lots to discover about themselves and their role for this world as one of the oldest surviving civilisations on the planet.

Now if they do not find the matching Wisdom before we hit another threshold of humanitarian calamity globally speaking,
we are all in big pickle I guess.


And then I consider about 33 other different options ..


🙏

[Antagenet]

I am new to this forum, Project Avalon; I've not read the remarks in this thread.
I lived under Communism in China for 13 years, 11 in Nanjing, near Shanghai, and two years in Tibet, which was my 2nd time to Tibet. I've been to Tibet both prior and subsequent to the events of 2008. While in Nanjing I met the then Foreign Minister, Li Zhaoxing, and have spoken with a number of other ranking military (Nanjing has a large military command presence) and CCParty members. I had dinner with the top Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) leadership in Lhasa, and on another occasion in Lhasa I had dinner with Xi Jinping, now China Pres., in Tibet, the only American ever to do so. In 1995 I met H.H. The Dalai Lama in Atlanta.
For some of my thoughts on these things, including also the U.S. today, feel free to see my site:
https://twoyearsintibet.com
I also note a few personal experiences during my years there. There are also a number of photos, many of which were taken at significant personal risk.
I make no money from twoyearsintibet; there's nothing for sale nor any advertising. Thank you.

I really loved reading your website. I quote you here.

"Globalist Communism/Socialism is an evil force as it is a Godless system where adults are treated as children. The hallmark of adulthood, both individually and for a society, is the maturity to dutifully and civilly handle natural, intrinsic freedom such that an individual or society can take care of and be directly responsible for him/itself as able, and via compassion care for those unable as well. Mature adults and societies are responsible and compassionate; immature ones are not. Freedom is walking the tightrope of life without a net, taking responsibility and accepting the consequences thereof. Relinquishing our responsibility to government, an employer, business, institution or any ‘authority’ deprives us of our adulthood, our humanity, turning us into child-things. There is neither freedom, nor maturity, nor civilization under Communism/Socialism; Big Brother ‘cares’ for you and your ‘group’, at your expense…forever. "

Thank you for this well written and expert depiction. I will send send this paragraph to all my well meaning but uninformed and functionally stupid USA liberal friends who are ready to bow down to big government.
God Bless You.

[Bill Ryan]

Hopefully my upload works....here's an example of a foreign influence 'poisoning' China.....in Lhasa no less.
Warning, extremely graphic!

https://projectavalon.net/foreign_poison.jpg

(Actually, this sort of thing is common in China, mostly so in cities, but not so much in the West, Tibet/Xizang, Xinjiang, Qinghai, Gansu)Could you say more about what this image is depicting? (I'm wondering if you tried to upload a video as an attachment, which won't work... but if so, it you send it to me at bill@projectavalon.net I can happily embed it for you.)

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

Antagenet, LJY, & Agape,

Thank you very much for your kind words. In Buddhism (I am not formally Buddhist, but I find it interesting and very useful in my Path) there is the question, "What is a thing's essential nature?"
Or more simply, "What is it?" Along with 1)"What is a thing's essential nature?", 2)"Say/write what you mean, and mean what you say/write.", are the two things I try to keep in mind when I write....trying to distill something down to its fundamental nature...."What IS it?". So, my paragraph you/Antagenet quoted about Communism/Socialism is what I came up with after pondering about it for some time.
Thank you again for your kind words, your and anyone else's kind words mean a great deal. In the past when I was younger, I didn't give a 2nd thought to such gestures of well-meant kindness...but now, at 61, having seen things in Life good and bad, I realize that were it not for decent, kind people being decent and kind, our world, which is already full of great suffering, would truly be Hell on Earth.
Thank you, and everyone else....I try to, though at times it is extremely difficult and challenging, always remember that I, you, and everyone else is Loved by that which we call 'God'. Hell is the absence of 'God', distance from 'God', from that whence we came. It's said the best view of Heaven is from Hell.....I'm starting to ramble, sorry...
Anyway, thank you again!

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

Mr. Ryan,
Thank you for the embed offer! The image is what I tried to upload, which apparently worked. You asked, "Could you say more about what this image is depicting?" It's in Potala Sq across the street from the Potala Palace; there was some kind of an event, I don't recall exactly what, but it was some secular thing organized by the local Lhasa (CCP of course) gov't, wholly unrelated to the band. It wasn't some music festival or anything like that I mean. I'm not sure these kids/guys were even actually playing any real songs or anything I would describe as 'music'. All I recall hearing was 'guitar, bass and drum sounds', it seemed like they were there just for show almost. I wasn't there for the entirety....maybe they actually played something after I left, so that's pretty much all there is to this shot. If anyone is by chance so utterly bored, ha!, that they might be interested in my musical life in China, part-time side work gigs and personal hobby, see: https://www.bandmix.com/david-pahle/
Thanks!

[onawah]

Chinese Leader Xi Jinping Lays out Plan to Control the Global Internet: Leaked Documents
https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/chinese-leader-xi-jinping-lays-out-plan-to-control-the-global-internet-leaked-documents_3791944.html (https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/chinese-leader-xi-jinping-lays-out-plan-to-control-the-global-internet-leaked-documents_3791944.html?utm_source=newsnoe&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-05-02-3&mktids=a48244275690ab229999289f3e008a22&est=%2F33FyVw1Ugw1DJElcKqZ6WUFtjZ1wyr2IXbctjjVwzDqieRVyuJD%2Bqn1gyU%3D)

Posted here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80790-Internet-Censorship-So-it-began...&p=1426098&viewfull=1#post1426098

According to the Michael Teachings ( https://www.michaelteachings.com/ )...which is channeled material (of which I am very wary these days, but still find this into to be extremely credible)
...each nation in the world has an average Soul Age.
Which doesn't necessary have anything to do with how old that culture is, as cultures go through cycles.
China may have been predominantly an Old Soul culture at one time, but it is now "Late Young to Early Mature". (See: https://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_ages_countries.html )
For characteristics of each Soul Age see: https://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_age_index.html
Not to say that the history of a culture does not still affect the present, but there are other factors to consider.




Generations move evolution of consciousness by steps, may be big leaps at some point.

I would never underestimate China has lots to discover about themselves and their role for this world as one of the oldest surviving civilisations on the planet.

Now if they do not find the matching Wisdom before we hit another threshold of humanitarian calamity globally speaking,
we are all in big pickle I guess.


And then I consider about 33 other different options ..


🙏

[TwoYearsTibet,11inNanjing]

LJY,
Thank you. You are Chinese living in Australia? If Chinese, from where in China?
You wrote, "I indeed felt a bit emotional when I saw some parts of your views...". Something I wrote in my site, or here, about China and/or Chinese people you didn't care for? If you wish, please feel free to cite it and I'll try to address it. I didn't mean/intend to speak ill-will toward China/Chinese, but I did honestly and bluntly express my thoughts about some things....

I have no 'problem' with China, or any other country. I have problems with particular leaders/gov'ts/ideologies.
China and Chinese people, though in so many ways very different than my land and people (which is good, I think of people like ice cream-it would be boring if there were only one flavor), are wonderful and interesting.
I wrote, "Legitimizing and keeping power, existent only by virtue of having run Chiang’s Nationalists off the mainland a mere five minutes ago on the scale of China’s antiquity..." & "China has been Confucian since deep into its ancient past while Communist for only the past ‘five minutes’".
COMMUNIST China is only a very, VERY tiny, small piece/aspect of China. China is ANCIENT, (an idea 99.99999% of Americans can 'understand' intellectually/definition-wise, but not really 'comprehend'/truly 'know'.)

LJY also writes "Freedom of speech is overdefended, IMO. Surely freedom of speech is the cornerstone for freedom of thinking. But today, there are more and more freedom of speaking nonsense. I really don't think it's much better than China's not allowing people to say anything. It's better, but not much."
Our freedom of speech is very special, extremely precious, (and vulnerable as ought to be easily seen in today's U.S.). Officially/formally codified as a right for the People, the common man/woman,...it was 'revolutionary'. It was/is about not only the freedom to criticize one's leaders, and each other, but on a more fundamental level, the codified right into law that one has the freedom to openly say 'whatever is on their mind' (except for things like yelling "Fire!!!!" in a crowded, darkened movie theater when there is no fire) regardless if what one is thinking is 'true' or not, or even makes any sense whatsoever. I have the freedom to walk down the street just uttering random words if I choose that are complete 'nonsense' (no, it wouldn't be very sensible/wise to do such things, but we Americans do have the right to do so). I can walk down the street with a sign that says "2+2=4" on one side and "2+2=a table lamp" on the other.
Notwithstanding those Americans who advocate censoring/stifling/controlling what they view as 'hate' speech, we Americans have every right to 'offend' or be 'offended', conversely no American has any right not to be 'offended'.
If one cannot freely, and feel free, to openly express the ideas in their mind, whatever these ideas may be, then the ideas may as well not even exist in the first place. What's the point of an idea if it can't be disclosed/known and then examined for its validity, etc? Freedom is speech is more precious than can be said....
I'm sure you've seen the sorts of, quite disparaging to put it lightly!, posters, etc. people in the West have shown of various leaders (e.g. Trump!) in street protests, that, at least in the U.S. they are perfectly free to do. How long could I walk around Tian-an-men Square with a big poster of Winnie the Pooh with a Xi Jinping face? It would be funny, for about 5 seconds I think....(ha), like when Falun Gong practitioners would display signs....

Anyway, thanks so much for your thoughts LJY.

[Agape]

Another square one situation, after 62 years of Tibetan suppression and exile,
perhaps the square grows exponentially larger ?

China issues white paper on peaceful liberation of Tibet and achievements (https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-05-21/China-issues-white-paper-on-Tibet-s-peaceful-liberation-achievements-10rd7iPryqk/index.html)


70 years of colonisation: Tibetans are now minority in their own land (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/echoes-from-the-himalayas/70-years-of-colonization-of-tibet-by-china-tibetans-are-a-minority-on-their-own-land/)


Penpa Tseting, newly elected president of Central Tibetan Administration: Will restart “Tibet Advocacy Group” with Tibetans living across the globe to feed our cause (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.news18.com/amp/news/india/will-start-tibet-advocacy-group-with-tibetans-living-across-globe-to-feed-our-cause-new-prez-of-cta-3757430.html)



There is even no valid diplomatic dialogue between the two parties that is Chinese government and Tibetan government in exile.


This only reflects our global situation in total.


Acting against the force, the spirit of people, Mother Nature, whatever names you give, whatever lands you have taken eventually misfires , if not now then against all of us in future.

Imagine this impossible controversy boils down to only two remaining people in course of time and everyone else has perished for the cause of someone’s hate,

and the two cross their swords , for the last time

it’s said that the One wins who have mercy.


😢

[ralfy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yURIS7S9zg

[ExomatrixTV]

China Preparing To Attack US? Former Mao Red Guard Member Warns Americans, "It's Happening Here:

Xy8xfOfCK_w

[onawah]

China preparing to attack America THIS YEAR with bioweapons, CYBER warfare and SABOTAGE
June 4th, 2021
62610 views
Health Ranger Report
(I have no idea if what Adams reports about the CCP's activities in the report is accurate, but no reason to doubt it either, and if this is really the bombshell he says it is, then we should be paying attention.)
https://www.brighteon.com/f8aacdc0-0...f-5d2a010ed167
Posted here with embedded video: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111213-The-planned-takedown-of-America-now--June-2020--in-full-swing.&p=1432830&viewfull=1#post1432830

[Gracy]

China Preparing To Attack US? Former Mao Red Guard Member Warns Americans, "It's Happening Here:

Xy8xfOfCK_w

China is not preparing to attack the US, and the US is in no danger of turning into China. We just went through 4 paranoid years of nothing but "Russia Russia Russia!", only to dive head long into "China China China!" on the flip side.

The sky wasn't falling then and it's not falling now. Time will prove this out, we all just need to chill a bit it's gonna be okay. :flower:

[ExomatrixTV]

China Preparing To Attack US? Former Mao Red Guard Member Warns Americans, "It's Happening Here:


Xy8xfOfCK_w

China is not preparing to attack the US, and the US is in no danger of turning into China. We just went through 4 paranoid years of nothing but "Russia Russia Russia!", only to dive head long into "China China China!" on the flip side.

The sky wasn't falling then and it's not falling now. Time will prove this out, we all just need to chill a bit it's gonna be okay. :flower:


Agree to disagree... most was already explained in the Multiple Different China Forum Threads on Project Avalon .... new Intel & new insights is only growing:


Communism (and China) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111437-Communism--and-China-&highlight=China)
China's military training in Canada (this is MAJOR) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113261-China-s-military-training-in-Canada--this-is-MAJOR-&highlight=China)
China's TERRIFYING Social Credit System (it's already here) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105172-China-s-TERRIFYING-Social-Credit-System--it-s-already-here-&highlight=China)
Is Trudeau Handing Control of Vancouver International Airport Over to Communist China? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114612-Is-Trudeau-Handing-Control-of-Vancouver-International-Airport-Over-to-Communist-China&highlight=China)
China (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104285-China&highlight=China)
China Censors PewDiePie (101 Million Subscribers) For Criticizing Communist Regime (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108973-China-Censors-PewDiePie--101-Million-Subscribers--For-Criticizing-Communist-Regime&highlight=China)
U.S. National Emergency Declared Over China Threat (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109267-Why-is-China-on-the-move-in-the-South-Pacific&highlight=China)
Why is China on the move in the South Pacific? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109267-Why-is-China-on-the-move-in-the-South-Pacific&highlight=China)

China Expands Weather Modification by 2 Million Square Miles (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113213-China-Expands-Weather-Modification-by-2-Million-Square-Miles&highlight=China)
Three Gorges Dam in China--another disaster in the making?? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24829-Three-Gorges-Dam-in-China-another-disaster-in-the-making&highlight=China)

China Donated $1 Billion To Harvard - Covert Cash! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112409-China-Donated-1-Billion-To-Harvard-Covert-Cash-&highlight=China)
You WON'T BELIEVE what Dennis Rodman said about China (& Hong Kong) | Tucker EXPLODES (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109321-You-WON-T-BELIEVE-what-Dennis-Rodman-said-about-China---Hong-Kong--Tucker-EXPLODES-Laughing-&highlight=China)
Inside China's Surveillance State (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111888-Inside-China-s-Surveillance-State&highlight=China)
Exclusive: Leaked Docs Expose China’s Secret Internet Troll Ops Amid CCP Virus Pandemic! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110642-Exclusive-Leaked-Docs-Expose-China--s-Secret-Internet-Troll-Ops-Amid-CCP-Virus-Pandemic-&highlight=China)
Gold Industry Shaken as 83 Tons of Fake Gold Bars Used to Secure $2 Billion Loans in China (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111373-Gold-Industry-Shaken-as-83-Tons-of-Fake-Gold-Bars-Used-to-Secure-2-Billion-Loans-in-China&highlight=China)
China Spying in US (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109257-China-Spying-in-US&highlight=China)
Blackwater founder chases $1 Trillion deal with China (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106037-Blackwater-founder-chases-1-Trillion-deal-with-China&highlight=China)
Apparently China just can't resist embedding spyware (It's worse - lots worse. See Post #32) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104514-Apparently-China-just-can-t-resist-embedding-spyware--It-s-worse-lots-worse.-See-Post-32-&highlight=China)
China has Clinton's 33,000 missing emails (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104046-China-has-Clinton-s-33-000-missing-emails&highlight=China)
US warns staff in China: Beware of unusual sounds (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102824-US-warns-staff-in-China-Beware-of-unusual-sounds&highlight=China)
The China Hustle (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102305-The-China-Hustle&highlight=China)
Dr Amy Bishop | Cloning...//..Inside China's animal cloning factory (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67611-Dr-Amy-Bishop-Cloning...-..Inside-China-s-animal-cloning-factory&highlight=China)
The problem with North Korea is China (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99331-The-problem-with-North-Korea-is-China&highlight=China)
Spyware installed by (?) sends Android's text, msgs to China (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94569-Spyware-installed-by-----sends-Android-s-text-msgs-to-China&highlight=China)

[iota]

China is not preparing to attack the US, and the US is in no danger of turning into China. We just went through 4 paranoid years of nothing but "Russia Russia Russia!", only to dive head long into "China China China!" on the flip side.

The sky wasn't falling then and it's not falling now. Time will prove this out, we all just need to chill a bit it's gonna be okay. :flower:



really? where else have i heard this message repeatedly?

the classic, over used:



https://www.studentnewsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/sorry-folks-nothing-to-see-here-move-along-820x461.jpg


and mocking, condescension directive that is basically ineffective now

at least amongst intelligent adults

who WILL disregard "stand down" message

and WILL evaluate ALL evidence and formulate their own conclusions

even if the implication is that (we're just silly wabbits)
:facepalm:

MY Conclusion is:


they are not GOING to wage war upon us

THEY HAVE


economically, affecting us both directly and indirectly

propaganda ~ outright ownership and control of significant percentage of the media

"BUYING" politicians ~ in every town, every city, every state ... the discerning observer will note a CHINESE "handler" dutifully, faithfully and CONSISTENTLY standing behind them ...

in case anyone might think this a coincidence or without signifcance? i would refer them to the CHINESE SPY LAW

COMPELLING ALL people of CHINESE descent TO spy

they have purchased HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of acres of FARMLAND

and didn't the "deadly" virus come from there?

preparation FOR "war" has been extensive and limitless permeating EVERY facet of our society and culture, they have "won" considerable battles ALREADY

the VERY LAST thing we need is to "look the other way" at what has ALREADY taken place and the possible ramifications in the future these imply

if needed? i can provide page upon page of references to ANY of the points mentioned above ... as well as add to this list quite extensively

[Delight]

I wish that my concern was assuaged. All the anomalies including mind control that is moving us as a community to literally destroy one another makes me think that a BIG PLAN has been deployed and I would like to be convinced that a take over of western civilization and depopulation while maintaining property is NOT the means. Who looks like a possible agent?





China is not preparing to attack the US, and the US is in no danger of turning into China. We just went through 4 paranoid years of nothing but "Russia Russia Russia!", only to dive head long into "China China China!" on the flip side.

The sky wasn't falling then and it's not falling now. Time will prove this out, we all just need to chill a bit it's gonna be okay. :flower:

the classic, over used:


https://www.studentnewsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/sorry-folks-nothing-to-see-here-move-along-820x461.jpg

and basically ineffective directive amongst discerning adults
who WILL disregard that and WILL evaluate ALL evidence and formulate their own conclusions

even if the implication is that (we're just siwy wabbits)


Posted on June 12, 2021
Invasion America? (https://jrnyquist.blog/2021/06/12/invasion-america/#more-6388)

To achieve victory in a future war, it will not be sufficient to have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them very accurately on target; it will also be necessary that the ground forces be able to move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes. Only when this problem is solved will it be possible to speak of the effective exploitation of nuclear strikes by tanks and infantry in conclusively defeating the enemy, or of carrying out extensive maneuvers and decisive advances in depth.

SOVIET MILITARY STRATEGY, [P. 343]
In 1990 I spoke with a Mexican gun runner. We met at the house of a someone we both knew. The Mexican placed a loaded gun on the table and spoke expansively about his “love” of mankind, his Cuban drinking buddies in Mexico, and the future destruction of the United States. There was an unmistakable Marxist element in the gunrunner’s far-left worldview. It was clear from our conversation that he hated America and he loved communist Cuba.

My interest in the rising cross-border criminal class from Mexico stemmed from a then recently-published book by Joseph D. Douglass, Jr., titled Red Cocaine: The Drugging of America and the West. This book describes “long-term Russian and Chinese intelligence operations aimed at achieving the demoralization and ultimate control of the West….” After preparing for several years, the Soviet special services entered the world of drug trafficking in 1960. They called it “Operation Friendship of Nations.” Soviet dictator Nikita S. Khrushchev got the idea from Chairman Mao Zedong of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), who had instructed his subordinates to “begin cultivating opium on a grand scale” in 1928. According to Douglass, “Mao’s strategy was simple; use drugs to soften a target area. Then after a captured region had been secured, outlaw the use of all narcotics and impose strict controls to ensure that the poppies remained exclusively an instrument of the state for use against its enemies.” [P. 11]

In the 1950s, after Stalin’s death, the Soviet Union modernized its strategy. This involved several steps: (1) They founded Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow to train communists from Third World countries; (2) They began training terrorists from various “national liberation movements”; (3) They set up networks for international drug and narcotics trafficking; (4) they infiltrated crime syndicates throughout the world and set up their own syndicates; (5) they prepared sabotage networks throughout the world, which were to be in place by 1972. [P. 17-18]

The strategy respecting these five points was explained by Douglass as follows: “Narcotics, terrorism and organized crime were coordinated and used together in a complementary fashion. Drugs were used to destroy society. Terrorism was used to destabilize the targeted country and to prepare the revolutionary environment. Organized crime was used to control the elite. All three strands were long-range strategic operations and all three had been incorporated into Soviet Bloc planning by 1956.” [P. 19]

The creation of criminal cartels and the infiltration of international organized crime were key elements of “Operation Friendship of Nations.” As Douglass noted, “The main reason for infiltrating organized crime was the Soviet belief that high-quality information – information on political corruption, money and business, international relations, drug-trafficking, and counter-intelligence – was to be found in organized crime. The Soviets reasoned that if they could successfully infiltrate organized crime, they would acquire unusually promising scope for controlling many politicians and would have access to the best information on drugs, money, weapons and corruption of many kinds.” [P. 18]

How successful was the Soviet and Chinese strategy in subverting the United States? Undoubtedly they compromised America’s banks. They bought many politicians. They corrupted bureaucrats, police officials and intelligence officers. But that is nothing compared to the success they had in Mexico.

CHINESE AND CUBANS IN MEXICO
In 2003 a Las Vegas journalist named Scott Gulbransen published a book titled The Silent Invasion. It was about Chinese and Cuban infiltration of northern Mexico and the U.S. southern border. Through the good offices of a Tijuana pimp named Reynaldo, Gulbransen obtained an interview with the leader of a communist group called La Conquidistas.

Keeping his head down, Gulbransen was driven to a secret location. When he was allowed to look out the window again, he saw a sign depicting an armed man pointing to an image of the state of California. On the sign it read, “Viva Mexico, Viva Baja California.” When he arrived at the meeting place, he was searched. Men with automatic weapons and red scarves were guarding the location. Gulbransen was directed to a trailer at the back of the property. He was told to address el jefe [the boss] as “señor,” and not to ask too many questions. On entering the trailer, he was overcome by the smell of cat piss. Behind a massive maple desk sat a large man in a camouflage jump suit, wearing cheap sunglasses and smoking a cigarette. The following conversation took place:

EL JEFE: So you are the reporter?

GULBRANSEN: No, sir. I am writing a book on the U.S.-Mexican border.

EL JEFE: This I know. And what do you plan to say about the border and the people of Mexico

GULBRANSEN: I plan to discuss the problems of your people and some of the strange things going on down here.

EL JEFE: What strange things my friend?

GULBRANSEN: Well, there’s been incidents with our border patrol who claim they’ve been fired on by Mexican soldiers and soldiers that appear to be Chinese.

EL JEFE: Very well. But I must tell you, you are traveling down a dangerous road. Besides, no matter what you find, no one will believe it.

El jefe then told Gulbransen, “We are the true Mexican people tired of the economic oppression handed down by the United States. We want our freedom and we want our northern provinces of Tejas, Nuevo Mexico, Arizona and Alta California.”

Question: Why did this maniac with cheap sunglasses think he could wrest four states away from the world’s premier military power? El Jefe’s answer was: “We have friends throughout the world.” Was this a reference to China and Cuba? El Jefe laughed and ended the interview. As Gulbransen departed, el Jefe said: “You tell the fat Americans about the real Mexico. You tell them their day to pay is coming fast. Coming very fast.”

This encounter made Gulbransen more curious than ever. So, he began an extensive investigation. What did he find? He stumbled on testimony from multiple sources indicating that Chinese ships were delivering arms, ammunition, uniforms and men into Baja California through the port of Ensenada. In addition, border agents told him the Chinese were smuggling uniforms and ammunition into the United States.

Then there was the story of Tijuana policeman Jesus de la Rosa. Because de la Rosa was honest and did not take bribes or inform on his corrupt colleagues, he came to be trusted by his superiors. One night de la Rosa’s captain asked him to drive to a desert location south of Mexicali to meet with a Cuban. There he was given a package of money with a shopping list which included ammunition, beer, rice, cement mix, and Tijuana police uniforms. The Cuban asked that de la Rosa deliver these items. It would be an ongoing job. After making several supply runs to this desert location, de la Rosa asked the Cuban what was going on. The Cuban trusted him and showed him around a secret “army encampment.” The first soldier he met spoke a European language, had blond hair and an enormous scar across his forehead. There were ten black tents with a satellite dish connected to one of them. De la Rosa had been in the Mexican Army and realized this camp was not Mexican. The camp had Chinese, North Korean and Cuban commandos in it. Jesus de la Rosa told Gulbransen, “I don’t care if people think I am crazy, but I think the U.S. is going to be attacked. Chinese, Koreans, Cubans – they all hate the U.S. What I can’t understand is what Mexico has to do with it and how the U.S. can’t see it.”

Months after giving this testimony, de la Rosa was murdered. Gulbransen explained, “Several other sources, sources not named in this book … have also come on hard times. Several lost their jobs suddenly, others became ill with unusual ailments. Still others were harassed and even physically threatened due to their involvement.” [P. 208]

I corresponded with Gulbransen in June of 2003. He was having a hard time since the publication of the book. He said, “I’ve been followed, bumped (with a car) and these cars have also ‘cased’ my house. They’re always the same car – Ford Taurus sedans. Different colors but always the same [model]. When they bump me, it’s usually from behind at a stop light. I get out to exchange insurance, and they take off. Once, the driver (always white males 25-35) told me I am lucky I didn’t get killed and then sped off. I’ve reported them to local police and the tags are always ‘retired.’ The casing of my house I’ve also reported and each time the police never do a thing. I’ve also been followed on foot when I am in New York and also several times shopping with my family. Always [it is] the same ‘looking’ white male who follows me, enough to make it known. Almost like they want me to know and be scared … which I am not. I also have been approached by attractive women … who flirt (I am married with two kids) and say cryptic things like ‘You look like you’re a safe person….’ Or ‘Be careful not to get hurt….’ These all come out of thin air and have no context.”

Was Gulbransen being paranoid? I am inclined to think not. As Nietzsche once wrote, “if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” About a decade ago (give or take) I called Gulbransen to see how he was doing. He sounded good. He was glad his Mexican adventure was behind him. He had decided to never touch the subject again. Can you blame him?

WHY NUKES ARE NOT ENOUGH
The quote from Soviet Military Strategy, with which I began this essay, is something that most U.S. military experts have missed. As Chinese generals were trained in Marxist-Leninist schools and shared the same philosophy as Soviet generals, there is a common strategic mindset at work in China and Russia. These people do not think like American generals. “To achieve victory in a future war,” their guiding text says, “it will not be sufficient to have nuclear weapons … [but] it will also be necessary that the ground forces be able to move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes. Only when this problem is solved will it be possible to speak of the effective exploitation of nuclear strikes by tanks and infantry in conclusively defeating the enemy, or of carrying out extensive maneuvers and decisive advances in depth.”

Think of it this way: bombs cannot take over a country. Only soldiers can do that. The real question is: How would you get Chinese soldiers into the United States in the opening days of a war? There are at least three scenarios: (1) you could move military personnel by ship to prepared enclaves in Mexico on the eve of war; (2) you could move military personnel by ship toward American ports; (3) you could fly troops to specially prepared airfields.

Today, Chinese ships are docking up and down the West Coast and in Mexico. We never think of those ships in terms of military sealift capacity. But, in truth, they can move troops and supplies into North America just as easily as they can move consumer goods. What Scott Gulbransen saw in Ensenada almost twenty years ago was nothing compared to the massive off-loading that goes on every day in Southern California or San Francisco. What might they off-load into our ports if war is about to break out? Do we have troops guarding our ports now?

GRU defector Stanislav Lunev told me that Russian and Chinese plans for invading America were based on Germany’s 1940 invasion of Norway. The Germans infiltrated Norway with “tourists.” They had hidden storage facilities with uniforms and weapons. The Germans also put military personnel into merchant ships (instead of the usual merchandise). They sailed right past the British navy. Why? Because they did not look like military ships carrying troops. Imagine, if you will, the access which China enjoys to our port facilities. Imagine, as well, Chinese access to airstrips that might be used to airlift troops deep into American territory. (And yes, there are such airstrips!)

BIRDS OF A FEATHER PREPARE TOGETHER
The Chinese communists, of course, are now talking about war with the United States. Consider the Newsweek headline which reads, “China State Media Says Country Must Prepare for Nuclear War With U.S. After Biden Asks for COVID Probe.” Consider another disturbing Newsweek headline from 10 June: “China Increasing Military Capability at ‘Serious and Sustained Rate,’ Top U.S. General Says.” According to this story, Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, “warned on Thursday that China’s military is rapidly expanding its capabilities, saying that the U.S. must take steps to ensure it maintains a competitive advantage moving forward.” But China is not America’s only worry. On 26 May General Milley made an even more noteworthy comment. He warned that “fraying” relations with China and Russia required an urgent improvement in ties to prevent a “great power war.”

This is strange advice coming from our leading general. For the last thirty years we have been working to improve ties with Russia and China. And where has this gotten us? We have given the Russians and Chinese every break. They take advantage of us at every turn. They steal and they lie. They break treaties. They commit aggression against their neighbors. (Russia against Ukraine, China against Hong Kong.) We have sent them credits, technology, and more. And what do we get for our pains? America now finds that Russia and China are arrayed against us. General Milley says we must use diplomacy to get ourselves out of this mess. But diplomacy is what got us in it; that is, when Kissinger and Nixon “played the China card” all those years ago. And now General Milley wants President Biden to “play the Russia card” – as if Russia and China were cards that we might play with ease. No! Russia and China are players, not cards; and they have played us.

I am sorry, General Milley, but avoiding a great power conflict is not up to us. We stupidly failed to maintain the balance of power. We wrongly believed that Russia and China were enemies that could never join forces. Our “brilliant” statesmen and our Pentagon strategists made no preparation for this eventuality. Furthermore, we had decades of warnings about this very thing – from Russian defectors! In 1984 KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn warned that the Sino-Soviet split was a deception; that after the “collapse” of the Soviet Union Moscow and Beijing would cleverly shift the balance of power against America and suddenly combine their strength into what he called “one clenched fist.” In 1998 GRU defector Stanislav Lunev warned that Russia and China had developed a war plan against North America. There would be an invasion, he said, in which Russia took Alaska and parts of Canada while China took the lower 48 states. “Fraying’ relations is not the cause of our woes, General Milley; rather, the cause is our own strategic incapacity and readiness to fall into every trap our enemies set for us.

America’s policymakers have failed. They failed to understand their enemy’s strategy. They even failed to properly identify their enemy. Let me explain it in very simple terms: China is part of the “socialist camp.” Russia is part of the “socialist camp.” Cuba and North Korea are part of the “socialist camp.” Their long-range policy is designed to defeat the United States. It is a comprehensive policy, involving all areas of science, government and business. They were never going to give freedom to their people. They were never going to put away their enmity for us. And yet, our elites wanted to believe the Cold War was over. They wanted to believe in the so-called “collapse of communism.” But it was all nonsense. Just look around you. Look at Venezuela, or Cuba, or Africa, or Mexico! (Or even Canada!)

Our pundits and our professors told us that communism was a failed economic system. Such was our conceit; but I tell you: There has never been a communist economic system. The Soviet Union and Red China never had such a system. The communist bloc always practiced a form of state capitalism that restricted consumption (in the same sense that a plantation restricts the consumption of its slaves). Communism is not really about economics. It is about world revolution and the acquisition of absolute power.

Whatever forays into Mexico the Chinese and their allies have made in the past, you can bet there are more Chinese in Baja today than ever. You can also bet that China is stockpiling weapons and uniforms right here, inside the United States. Black Lives Matter, step aside. The real liberators are coming.

Moscow and Beijing have always known that America will never become a truly “socialist” country. After all, why would they want a socialist America? The United States itself must be leveled to the ground, said Stalin in the 1930s, when “the present capitalist encirclement [of the USSR] is replaced by a socialist encirclement [of capitalism] ….” A Marxist takeover of America is only meant to soften the country up, to make it ready for destruction.

But destruction is not the final goal. As Sokolovsky’s text explained, ground forces will be necessary if the ground is to be conquered. Troops and tanks are needed to “move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes.” In the paragraph quoted from Sokolovsky’s Soviet Military Strategy at the beginning of this article, the final sentence reads: “If required, the vehicles [used to transport troops] should be transportable by air along with the troops.”

What would you say if a Chinese general acquired a 200-square-mile area in Texas to build a fake wind farm? What would you say if that same Chinese general was building a 10,000-foot runway on that same property? Watch this video and see if I am mistaken:

Posted on June 12, 2021
Invasion America?
To achieve victory in a future war, it will not be sufficient to have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them very accurately on target; it will also be necessary that the ground forces be able to move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes. Only when this problem is solved will it be possible to speak of the effective exploitation of nuclear strikes by tanks and infantry in conclusively defeating the enemy, or of carrying out extensive maneuvers and decisive advances in depth.

SOVIET MILITARY STRATEGY, [P. 343]
In 1990 I spoke with a Mexican gun runner. We met at the house of a someone we both knew. The Mexican placed a loaded gun on the table and spoke expansively about his “love” of mankind, his Cuban drinking buddies in Mexico, and the future destruction of the United States. There was an unmistakable Marxist element in the gunrunner’s far-left worldview. It was clear from our conversation that he hated America and he loved communist Cuba.

My interest in the rising cross-border criminal class from Mexico stemmed from a then recently-published book by Joseph D. Douglass, Jr., titled Red Cocaine: The Drugging of America and the West. This book describes “long-term Russian and Chinese intelligence operations aimed at achieving the demoralization and ultimate control of the West….” After preparing for several years, the Soviet special services entered the world of drug trafficking in 1960. They called it “Operation Friendship of Nations.” Soviet dictator Nikita S. Khrushchev got the idea from Chairman Mao Zedong of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), who had instructed his subordinates to “begin cultivating opium on a grand scale” in 1928. According to Douglass, “Mao’s strategy was simple; use drugs to soften a target area. Then after a captured region had been secured, outlaw the use of all narcotics and impose strict controls to ensure that the poppies remained exclusively an instrument of the state for use against its enemies.” [P. 11]

In the 1950s, after Stalin’s death, the Soviet Union modernized its strategy. This involved several steps: (1) They founded Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow to train communists from Third World countries; (2) They began training terrorists from various “national liberation movements”; (3) They set up networks for international drug and narcotics trafficking; (4) they infiltrated crime syndicates throughout the world and set up their own syndicates; (5) they prepared sabotage networks throughout the world, which were to be in place by 1972. [P. 17-18]

The strategy respecting these five points was explained by Douglass as follows: “Narcotics, terrorism and organized crime were coordinated and used together in a complementary fashion. Drugs were used to destroy society. Terrorism was used to destabilize the targeted country and to prepare the revolutionary environment. Organized crime was used to control the elite. All three strands were long-range strategic operations and all three had been incorporated into Soviet Bloc planning by 1956.” [P. 19]

The creation of criminal cartels and the infiltration of international organized crime were key elements of “Operation Friendship of Nations.” As Douglass noted, “The main reason for infiltrating organized crime was the Soviet belief that high-quality information – information on political corruption, money and business, international relations, drug-trafficking, and counter-intelligence – was to be found in organized crime. The Soviets reasoned that if they could successfully infiltrate organized crime, they would acquire unusually promising scope for controlling many politicians and would have access to the best information on drugs, money, weapons and corruption of many kinds.” [P. 18]

How successful was the Soviet and Chinese strategy in subverting the United States? Undoubtedly they compromised America’s banks. They bought many politicians. They corrupted bureaucrats, police officials and intelligence officers. But that is nothing compared to the success they had in Mexico.

CHINESE AND CUBANS IN MEXICO
In 2003 a Las Vegas journalist named Scott Gulbransen published a book titled The Silent Invasion. It was about Chinese and Cuban infiltration of northern Mexico and the U.S. southern border. Through the good offices of a Tijuana pimp named Reynaldo, Gulbransen obtained an interview with the leader of a communist group called La Conquidistas.

Keeping his head down, Gulbransen was driven to a secret location. When he was allowed to look out the window again, he saw a sign depicting an armed man pointing to an image of the state of California. On the sign it read, “Viva Mexico, Viva Baja California.” When he arrived at the meeting place, he was searched. Men with automatic weapons and red scarves were guarding the location. Gulbransen was directed to a trailer at the back of the property. He was told to address el jefe [the boss] as “señor,” and not to ask too many questions. On entering the trailer, he was overcome by the smell of cat piss. Behind a massive maple desk sat a large man in a camouflage jump suit, wearing cheap sunglasses and smoking a cigarette. The following conversation took place:

EL JEFE: So you are the reporter?

GULBRANSEN: No, sir. I am writing a book on the U.S.-Mexican border.

EL JEFE: This I know. And what do you plan to say about the border and the people of Mexico

GULBRANSEN: I plan to discuss the problems of your people and some of the strange things going on down here.

EL JEFE: What strange things my friend?

GULBRANSEN: Well, there’s been incidents with our border patrol who claim they’ve been fired on by Mexican soldiers and soldiers that appear to be Chinese.

EL JEFE: Very well. But I must tell you, you are traveling down a dangerous road. Besides, no matter what you find, no one will believe it.

El jefe then told Gulbransen, “We are the true Mexican people tired of the economic oppression handed down by the United States. We want our freedom and we want our northern provinces of Tejas, Nuevo Mexico, Arizona and Alta California.”

Question: Why did this maniac with cheap sunglasses think he could wrest four states away from the world’s premier military power? El Jefe’s answer was: “We have friends throughout the world.” Was this a reference to China and Cuba? El Jefe laughed and ended the interview. As Gulbransen departed, el Jefe said: “You tell the fat Americans about the real Mexico. You tell them their day to pay is coming fast. Coming very fast.”

This encounter made Gulbransen more curious than ever. So, he began an extensive investigation. What did he find? He stumbled on testimony from multiple sources indicating that Chinese ships were delivering arms, ammunition, uniforms and men into Baja California through the port of Ensenada. In addition, border agents told him the Chinese were smuggling uniforms and ammunition into the United States.

Then there was the story of Tijuana policeman Jesus de la Rosa. Because de la Rosa was honest and did not take bribes or inform on his corrupt colleagues, he came to be trusted by his superiors. One night de la Rosa’s captain asked him to drive to a desert location south of Mexicali to meet with a Cuban. There he was given a package of money with a shopping list which included ammunition, beer, rice, cement mix, and Tijuana police uniforms. The Cuban asked that de la Rosa deliver these items. It would be an ongoing job. After making several supply runs to this desert location, de la Rosa asked the Cuban what was going on. The Cuban trusted him and showed him around a secret “army encampment.” The first soldier he met spoke a European language, had blond hair and an enormous scar across his forehead. There were ten black tents with a satellite dish connected to one of them. De la Rosa had been in the Mexican Army and realized this camp was not Mexican. The camp had Chinese, North Korean and Cuban commandos in it. Jesus de la Rosa told Gulbransen, “I don’t care if people think I am crazy, but I think the U.S. is going to be attacked. Chinese, Koreans, Cubans – they all hate the U.S. What I can’t understand is what Mexico has to do with it and how the U.S. can’t see it.”

Months after giving this testimony, de la Rosa was murdered. Gulbransen explained, “Several other sources, sources not named in this book … have also come on hard times. Several lost their jobs suddenly, others became ill with unusual ailments. Still others were harassed and even physically threatened due to their involvement.” [P. 208]

I corresponded with Gulbransen in June of 2003. He was having a hard time since the publication of the book. He said, “I’ve been followed, bumped (with a car) and these cars have also ‘cased’ my house. They’re always the same car – Ford Taurus sedans. Different colors but always the same [model]. When they bump me, it’s usually from behind at a stop light. I get out to exchange insurance, and they take off. Once, the driver (always white males 25-35) told me I am lucky I didn’t get killed and then sped off. I’ve reported them to local police and the tags are always ‘retired.’ The casing of my house I’ve also reported and each time the police never do a thing. I’ve also been followed on foot when I am in New York and also several times shopping with my family. Always [it is] the same ‘looking’ white male who follows me, enough to make it known. Almost like they want me to know and be scared … which I am not. I also have been approached by attractive women … who flirt (I am married with two kids) and say cryptic things like ‘You look like you’re a safe person….’ Or ‘Be careful not to get hurt….’ These all come out of thin air and have no context.”

Was Gulbransen being paranoid? I am inclined to think not. As Nietzsche once wrote, “if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” About a decade ago (give or take) I called Gulbransen to see how he was doing. He sounded good. He was glad his Mexican adventure was behind him. He had decided to never touch the subject again. Can you blame him?

WHY NUKES ARE NOT ENOUGH
The quote from Soviet Military Strategy, with which I began this essay, is something that most U.S. military experts have missed. As Chinese generals were trained in Marxist-Leninist schools and shared the same philosophy as Soviet generals, there is a common strategic mindset at work in China and Russia. These people do not think like American generals. “To achieve victory in a future war,” their guiding text says, “it will not be sufficient to have nuclear weapons … [but] it will also be necessary that the ground forces be able to move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes. Only when this problem is solved will it be possible to speak of the effective exploitation of nuclear strikes by tanks and infantry in conclusively defeating the enemy, or of carrying out extensive maneuvers and decisive advances in depth.”

Think of it this way: bombs cannot take over a country. Only soldiers can do that. The real question is: How would you get Chinese soldiers into the United States in the opening days of a war? There are at least three scenarios: (1) you could move military personnel by ship to prepared enclaves in Mexico on the eve of war; (2) you could move military personnel by ship toward American ports; (3) you could fly troops to specially prepared airfields.

Today, Chinese ships are docking up and down the West Coast and in Mexico. We never think of those ships in terms of military sealift capacity. But, in truth, they can move troops and supplies into North America just as easily as they can move consumer goods. What Scott Gulbransen saw in Ensenada almost twenty years ago was nothing compared to the massive off-loading that goes on every day in Southern California or San Francisco. What might they off-load into our ports if war is about to break out? Do we have troops guarding our ports now?

GRU defector Stanislav Lunev told me that Russian and Chinese plans for invading America were based on Germany’s 1940 invasion of Norway. The Germans infiltrated Norway with “tourists.” They had hidden storage facilities with uniforms and weapons. The Germans also put military personnel into merchant ships (instead of the usual merchandise). They sailed right past the British navy. Why? Because they did not look like military ships carrying troops. Imagine, if you will, the access which China enjoys to our port facilities. Imagine, as well, Chinese access to airstrips that might be used to airlift troops deep into American territory. (And yes, there are such airstrips!)

BIRDS OF A FEATHER PREPARE TOGETHER
The Chinese communists, of course, are now talking about war with the United States. Consider the Newsweek headline which reads, “China State Media Says Country Must Prepare for Nuclear War With U.S. After Biden Asks for COVID Probe.” Consider another disturbing Newsweek headline from 10 June: “China Increasing Military Capability at ‘Serious and Sustained Rate,’ Top U.S. General Says.” According to this story, Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, “warned on Thursday that China’s military is rapidly expanding its capabilities, saying that the U.S. must take steps to ensure it maintains a competitive advantage moving forward.” But China is not America’s only worry. On 26 May General Milley made an even more noteworthy comment. He warned that “fraying” relations with China and Russia required an urgent improvement in ties to prevent a “great power war.”

This is strange advice coming from our leading general. For the last thirty years we have been working to improve ties with Russia and China. And where has this gotten us? We have given the Russians and Chinese every break. They take advantage of us at every turn. They steal and they lie. They break treaties. They commit aggression against their neighbors. (Russia against Ukraine, China against Hong Kong.) We have sent them credits, technology, and more. And what do we get for our pains? America now finds that Russia and China are arrayed against us. General Milley says we must use diplomacy to get ourselves out of this mess. But diplomacy is what got us in it; that is, when Kissinger and Nixon “played the China card” all those years ago. And now General Milley wants President Biden to “play the Russia card” – as if Russia and China were cards that we might play with ease. No! Russia and China are players, not cards; and they have played us.

I am sorry, General Milley, but avoiding a great power conflict is not up to us. We stupidly failed to maintain the balance of power. We wrongly believed that Russia and China were enemies that could never join forces. Our “brilliant” statesmen and our Pentagon strategists made no preparation for this eventuality. Furthermore, we had decades of warnings about this very thing – from Russian defectors! In 1984 KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn warned that the Sino-Soviet split was a deception; that after the “collapse” of the Soviet Union Moscow and Beijing would cleverly shift the balance of power against America and suddenly combine their strength into what he called “one clenched fist.” In 1998 GRU defector Stanislav Lunev warned that Russia and China had developed a war plan against North America. There would be an invasion, he said, in which Russia took Alaska and parts of Canada while China took the lower 48 states. “Fraying’ relations is not the cause of our woes, General Milley; rather, the cause is our own strategic incapacity and readiness to fall into every trap our enemies set for us.

America’s policymakers have failed. They failed to understand their enemy’s strategy. They even failed to properly identify their enemy. Let me explain it in very simple terms: China is part of the “socialist camp.” Russia is part of the “socialist camp.” Cuba and North Korea are part of the “socialist camp.” Their long-range policy is designed to defeat the United States. It is a comprehensive policy, involving all areas of science, government and business. They were never going to give freedom to their people. They were never going to put away their enmity for us. And yet, our elites wanted to believe the Cold War was over. They wanted to believe in the so-called “collapse of communism.” But it was all nonsense. Just look around you. Look at Venezuela, or Cuba, or Africa, or Mexico! (Or even Canada!)

Our pundits and our professors told us that communism was a failed economic system. Such was our conceit; but I tell you: There has never been a communist economic system. The Soviet Union and Red China never had such a system. The communist bloc always practiced a form of state capitalism that restricted consumption (in the same sense that a plantation restricts the consumption of its slaves). Communism is not really about economics. It is about world revolution and the acquisition of absolute power.

Whatever forays into Mexico the Chinese and their allies have made in the past, you can bet there are more Chinese in Baja today than ever. You can also bet that China is stockpiling weapons and uniforms right here, inside the United States. Black Lives Matter, step aside. The real liberators are coming.

Moscow and Beijing have always known that America will never become a truly “socialist” country. After all, why would they want a socialist America? The United States itself must be leveled to the ground, said Stalin in the 1930s, when “the present capitalist encirclement [of the USSR] is replaced by a socialist encirclement [of capitalism] ….” A Marxist takeover of America is only meant to soften the country up, to make it ready for destruction.

But destruction is not the final goal. As Sokolovsky’s text explained, ground forces will be necessary if the ground is to be conquered. Troops and tanks are needed to “move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes.” In the paragraph quoted from Sokolovsky’s Soviet Military Strategy at the beginning of this article, the final sentence reads: “If required, the vehicles [used to transport troops] should be transportable by air along with the troops.”

What would you say if a Chinese general acquired a 200-square-mile area in Texas to build a fake wind farm? What would you say if that same Chinese general was building a 10,000-foot runway on that same property? Watch this video and see if I am mistaken:

Kyle Bass: Communist China Controls 200 Sq Miles in Texas Next to Major Air Force Base
May 27, 2021

[youtube]HPChSpLdELU

Mike Adams 6/11/2021 interviews JR Nyquist

JR Nyquist interview: China planning to launch attack on America "in a matter of months" (https://www.brighteon.com/56efa647-c0a5-44fa-9808-c17199225c4a)

https://www.brighteon.com/56efa647-c0a5-44fa-9808-c17199225c4a

56efa647-c0a5-44fa-9808-c17199225c4a

[Gracy]

Mike Adams 6/11/2021 interviews JR Nyquist

JR Nyquist interview: China planning to launch attack on America "in a matter of months" (https://www.brighteon.com/56efa647-c0a5-44fa-9808-c17199225c4a)

I was pleased a time stamp was placed on the China invasion while listening to that interview yesterday, any time between now and October IIRC. So we shall see. I can certainly see the can being kicked down the road when it fails to happen, but, it's always nice to note the markers along the way in these instances, similar to the mass arrest event that was ever imminent for a number of years, before it finally faded off into the sunset.

Sure China wants to be Numeral Uno on the world stage, but they're doing it economically as in investing in other countries and the Silk Road Initiative for example, not militarily or with strong arm tactics that the US employs.

A hot world war is not part of their business model so far as I have seen. But again, we shall see time will tell. :nod:

[onawah]

Massive Protests Erupt in Mainland China
540,304 views•Jun 11, 2021
48K
1.3K
laowhy86
626K subscribers

"A sudden law change about university degrees sets off something the Chinese government did not expect. Why don't Chinese people rise up? They do! Only to be met with the most brutal of punishments."
ioqg_OLbHoA

[Delight]

A hot world war is not part of their business model so far as I have seen. But again, we shall see time will tell. :nod:

I compressed the reply. I agree that there has been a huge weird series of claims which never happened and I have lost all sense of trust in every claim. I really pray that you are correct.

However, I think I see a mad mad mad rush to force a spike into the hearts of every person from 12 to death (so far but expect youngers), and given the serious squelching of the means to object and given the VERY credible questions of WHY, I am paranoid OR.....?

The mind wanders into the weeds. I guess my mind has wandered into some high grass. What are we to DO if this is TRUE.

Again, my prayer is for some Divine intervention to block what LOOKS and SMELLS like an unimaginable EVIL. Who benefits? I cannot find the source and all I see is the suspicious evidence that China is the means.

Again, I surely like your confidence. But what if you are wrong?

adding this from 2020


Coronavirus, China and World War III
Health Ranger Report, Published: Tuesday, March 17, 2020
https://www.brighteon.com/1966c35c-71...

WU0X6qy9QSY

[onawah]

Personally, regardless of the Mike Adams report, there's not much I would put past the CCP, including WW3. They certainly don't have an aversion to using strong arm tactics, or killing, including their own people. See: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111437-Communism--and-China-&p=1433897&viewfull=1#post1433897



Mike Adams 6/11/2021 interviews JR Nyquist

JR Nyquist interview: China planning to launch attack on America "in a matter of months"[/URL]

Sure China wants to be Numeral Uno on the world stage, but they're doing it economically as in investing in other countries and the Silk Road Initiative for example, not militarily or with strong arm tactics that the US employs.

A hot world war is not part of their business model so far as I have seen. But again, we shall see time will tell. :nod:

[iota]

I was pleased a time stamp was placed on the China invasion while listening to that interview yesterday, any time between now and October IIRC. So we shall see. I can certainly see the can being kicked down the road when it fails to happen,



PLEASED? about WHAT?

that someone who is authentically attempting to formulate a hypothesis out of FACTS we are piecing together could be mistaken?

that he put out a date so that if it doesn't pan out pleases you?

when the issue deals with an AGGRESOR who as a matter of course perpetuate crimes against humanity?

a country whose actions demonstrate CLEAR COMMITTED GOALS of DOMINATION making them the ENEMY of ALL who espouse FREEDOM ?

THAT will PLEASE you?

and a rather important question is: > WHY is that?

you are a moderator of a Conspiracy Forum

HERE? we present Information and FACTS in order to formulate a coherent picture and "connect the dots" ~

attempting to arrive at INFORMED and EDUCATED conclusions

THIS IS what we do here

it is supposed to be "safe" to do that here

i will not be PLEASED at his failure OR the failure of ANYONE ...

nor does someone deriving pleasure at his expense PLEASE me now ...

i'm grateful, instead for ALL facts presented

these allow us to see the different pieces of the puzzle, despite discouragement to attempt to do so

IF he is wrong about the timeline?

it only means he's not a HIGH level spy or the date or even strategy "changed"

it will in NO way INVALIDATE ANY of the FACTS presented here

which in NO way should be "categorically" disregarded by ANYONE

furthermore, whether military force is, in fact, utilized or not?

America has ALREADY been under siege of CHINESE Control for a very long time



Sure China wants to be Numeral Uno on the world stage, but they're doing it economically as in investing in other countries and the Silk Road Initiative for example, not militarily or with strong arm tactics that the US employs.

A hot world war is not part of their business model so far as I have seen.


and let's look at this "innocent" country who ONLY wants to be "numero UNO"

they used MILITARY force upon their OWN citizens, those of the most benign and peaceful predisposition, and massacred large number of them in Tibet

see this article titled here (https://www.thetibetpost.com/en/outlook/opinions-and-columns/4533-genocide-in-the-20th-century-massacres-in-tibet-1966-76):


"Genocide in the 20th Century: Massacres in Tibet: 1966-76"

there is ZERO restraint or hesitancy in the use of their military force to achieve their ends

and the loss of human life and dignity is something their laws promote and have little regard for .. in the question of military force?


https://www.19fortyfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Type-15-Tank.jpg
China's Type 15 Light Tank

they currently have their sight on Taiwan

see article with the headline here
(https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/05/is-china-preparing-troops-for-an-invasion-of-taiwan/)


SMART BOMBS: MILITARY, DEFENSE, NATIONAL SECURITY AND MORE
is China Preparing Troops For An Invasion Of Taiwan?


the one thing they are is METHODICAL, time has passed since we were warned and aware of the fact that:

China's military power may surpass the US's faster than you think,
thanks to 6 shrewd strategies



https://i.insider.com/5d604d4eadbcf86fdd0f58a2?width=1300&format=jpeg



just some of the points covered in the article were:


China's military is well on its way to besting the US's technologic edge, due to rapid economic and military development.
By stealing already-extant weapons technology, China is developing advanced weapons at a rapid pace. It's also figuring out how to disrupt the US's battlefield systems, working on long-range weapons, and leading the way on artificial intelligence.
China is also developing highly secretive weapons which might include, "directed energy weapons, advanced space weapons, electromagnetic railguns, high-powered microwave weapons, or even more exotic arms," according to former Deputy Secretary of Defense Robert O. Work.


and went on to note:

"China's military power is quickly becoming the greatest threat to US military primacy. From posturing in the South China Sea to damaging hacking campaigns, the Chinese government is investing more time and resources into its military strategy, and it shows."

read full article here (https://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-military-power-surpass-the-us-faster-than-you-think-2019-8?op=1)

AND .. for someone who is praising China's choices over those of our country:



not militarily or with strong arm tactics that the US employs.

A hot world war is not part of their business model so far as I have seen.

the fact is that they recently DID threaten just that, SPECIFICALLY threatening Australia WITH the use of military force here (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1440215/china-too-weak-australia-pla-military-drill-taiwan-tension-ont)


https://www.armytimes.com/resizer/sjw80IfuQZ8d0TN9YJ3F4MsZ23s=/1200x0/filters:quality(100)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/mco/X63ZS4NDGVEWDMXZ5I7XQYN7UQ.jpg



China warns 'too weak' Australia to stay out of Taiwan or be one of 'first to be hit'

the facts speak for themselves of their intentions. the timing is known ONLY to the one's making the decisions, OBVIOUSLY

however, as TRUTH seekers continue to gather information and facts and we SHARE these? it may well be possible to formulate an educated hypothesis as to both timing AND "nature" of "war" waged upon America

THAT is what we strive to do here in this particular category of forum. i think it is an INDISPENSIBLE service to humanity

there is so much more, but i will close now with the
2020 China Military Power Report


https://media.defense.gov/2020/Sep/01/2002488689/-1/-1/1/2020-DOD-CHINA-MILITARY-POWER-REPORT-FINAL.PDF

:shielddeflect:

[Mashika]

I find it very clear, really. China is playing a modern version of fog of war, it should be obvious but i think most people have not realized or don't understand the strategy completely

The army buildup is the "intent" part, make the enemy think they have to spend and focus on building their own armies because "war is coming"

Meanwhile, they will diseminate a lot of info about the capabilities so the enemy feel they are going to be left behind, which pushes them to spend even more money creating new arms and raising to the top as fast as possible, leaving other parts of the country behind (people may start suffering in quality of life because of this)

The buildup of the army serves as a deterrence, giving China more time to implement their actual real plan, to bankrupt the US and steal all the international business from them

It's so obvious...

There's no need for war, they are just going to keep building up the army, pretending and missinforming people about an incoming war, or "build uncertainty" in the enemy's mind.

Then, once the US goes bankrupt and can't keep up, and loses all business with other countries (because they focused so much on war they started spending less on product manufacturing etc) people will do exactly the same they always do, break the government and start again, from a lower position of power because there will be no money left to move those giagantic plane carriers far from the US coasts

Once that happens, China will have two things, full control of international business with former US allies, and an extremely advanced army to ensure they will keep themselves on top

This is classic military game strategy, but somehow, people are being blinded, or blinding themselves to this strategy... ???

The "incoming war" is just the "intent" part of the fog of war game :)

The constant moving dates are the "uncertainty" part that fogs the judgment of the nemy

The cyberattacks are meant to cause doubt and ambiguity, causing the US to double spend on fighting to invisible enemies at two fronts, speeding up the plan

That's all there is to it, really




Mike Adams 6/11/2021 interviews JR Nyquist

JR Nyquist interview: China planning to launch attack on America "in a matter of months" (https://www.brighteon.com/56efa647-c0a5-44fa-9808-c17199225c4a)

I was pleased a time stamp was placed on the China invasion while listening to that interview yesterday, any time between now and October IIRC. So we shall see. I can certainly see the can being kicked down the road when it fails to happen, but, it's always nice to note the markers along the way in these instances, similar to the mass arrest event that was ever imminent for a number of years, before it finally faded off into the sunset.

Sure China wants to be Numeral Uno on the world stage, but they're doing it economically as in investing in other countries and the Silk Road Initiative for example, not militarily or with strong arm tactics that the US employs.

A hot world war is not part of their business model so far as I have seen. But again, we shall see time will tell. :nod:

[onawah]

That makes a horrible kind of sense, Mashika.
What makes it simpler or more complicated, depending on how you look at it, is that its obvious that there is more than one power wanting to take the US down and out of the hands of the people, and not just the US.
China may not be completely in league with the NWO, but their goals seem to be much the same.

I find it very clear, really. China is playing a modern version of fog of war, it should be obvious but i think most people have not realized or don't understand the strategy completely

The army buildup is the "intent" part, make the enemy think they have to spend and focus on building their own armies because "war is coming"

Meanwhile, they will diseminate a lot of info about the capabilities so the enemy feel they are going to be left behind, which pushes them to spend even more money creating new arms and raising to the top as fast as possible, leaving other parts of the country behind (people may start suffering in quality of life because of this)

The buildup of the army serves as a deterrence, giving China more time to implement their actual real plan, to bankrupt the US and steal all the international business from them

It's so obvious...

There's no need for war, they are just going to keep building up the army, pretending and missinforming people about an incoming war, or "build uncertainty" in the enemy's mind.

Then, once the US goes bankrupt and can't keep up, and loses all business with other countries (because they focused so much on war they started spending less on product manufacturing etc) people will do exactly the same they always do, break the government and start again, from a lower position of power because there will be no money left to move those giagantic plane carriers far from the US coasts

Once that happens, China will have two things, full control of international business with former US allies, and an extremely advanced army to ensure they will keep themselves on top

This is classic military game strategy, but somehow, people are being blinded, or blinding themselves to this strategy... ???

The "incoming war" is just the "intent" part of the fog of war game :)

The constant moving dates are the "uncertainty" part that fogs the judgment of the nemy

The cyberattacks are meant to cause doubt and ambiguity, causing the US to double spend on fighting to invisible enemies at two fronts, speeding up the plan

That's all there is to it, really

[Mashika]

Part of the issue, as i see it after spending time looking at what has happened in the past 20 or so years, is that the US is past the stage where they get all paranoid and start watching their own shadow

See for example the problem few days/week? ago, where there was a leak about the US spying on their own EU allies, like Germany? So it's bad that Germany just finished that deal with the Russian pipeline, and at the same time, finds that the US is spying on them, and then the US suddenly backtracks on the sanctions they had for the pipeline, but Germany had said already way back, that sanctions or not, the Russian gas would reach Germany. See how that happens?

So now the US is on a bind there, allow "the enemy" to reach your ally and do business, while you can't offer anything better, and you have been found to mistrust your ally. This can only lead to more distrust overtime, like "are they planning more business with Russia, or China, or someone else and we are not part of the plan?" and they have to find out somehow, and then it leads to even more distrust and the path is clear from there

Simply put, they are starting to mistrust their own allies, and this is part of the game, they are going to lose allies and business because of it, it's hard to come back from that if it keeps going like this. Also, as more allies chose to do business with "the enemy" the situation will get worse, and this may happen because once other countries say "See what the US did with Germany? We can't do business like that"

So the US will find less allies overtime, therefore they feel threatened and have to build up the army even more, because these countries are going with the enemy and that's a threat

See that's how it's happening, i'm not claiming to be an expert in military strategy but i think i know a bit my stuff :)

And, honestly, this could not be happening without someone within the US helping it happen, but i don't want to start sounding bad here, or crazy



That makes a horrible kind of sense. Mashika.
What makes it simpler or more complicated, depending on how you look at it, is that its obvious that there are more than one power wanting to take the US down and out of the hands of the people, and not just the US.
China may not be completely in league with the NWO, but their goals seem to be much the same.

I find it very clear, really. China is playing a modern version of fog of war, it should be obvious but i think most people have not realized or don't understand the strategy completely

The army buildup is the "intent" part, make the enemy think they have to spend and focus on building their own armies because "war is coming"

Meanwhile, they will diseminate a lot of info about the capabilities so the enemy feel they are going to be left behind, which pushes them to spend even more money creating new arms and raising to the top as fast as possible, leaving other parts of the country behind (people may start suffering in quality of life because of this)

The buildup of the army serves as a deterrence, giving China more time to implement their actual real plan, to bankrupt the US and steal all the international business from them

It's so obvious...

There's no need for war, they are just going to keep building up the army, pretending and missinforming people about an incoming war, or "build uncertainty" in the enemy's mind.

Then, once the US goes bankrupt and can't keep up, and loses all business with other countries (because they focused so much on war they started spending less on product manufacturing etc) people will do exactly the same they always do, break the government and start again, from a lower position of power because there will be no money left to move those giagantic plane carriers far from the US coasts

Once that happens, China will have two things, full control of international business with former US allies, and an extremely advanced army to ensure they will keep themselves on top

This is classic military game strategy, but somehow, people are being blinded, or blinding themselves to this strategy... ???

The "incoming war" is just the "intent" part of the fog of war game :)

The constant moving dates are the "uncertainty" part that fogs the judgment of the nemy

The cyberattacks are meant to cause doubt and ambiguity, causing the US to double spend on fighting to invisible enemies at two fronts, speeding up the plan

That's all there is to it, really

[Bill Ryan]

adding this from 2020


Coronavirus, China and World War III
Health Ranger Report, Published: Tuesday, March 17, 2020
https://www.brighteon.com/1966c35c-71...WU0X6qy9QSY:bump: :bump: :bump:

Wow, many thanks for that gem. I'd been unaware of the video.

And OMG, that was March 2020. Before the US election was stolen and Biden was "installed".

I really do think that China has pretty much already overrun the US. (Canada also, for sure, and maybe even Europe.) If that's true, then it makes horrible strategic sense that a different kind of attack might suddenly happen before not too long.

I don't know if "before not too long" means this year. But it might certainly mean within the next 5 years, and maybe much sooner.

Thinking from the viewpoint of an enemy, if Nyquist is correct about the pathological mindset of the enemy's generals, then the coup de grâce — a knockout blow — may well be what will follow, capitalizing on just how weak and compromised the US is right now. (And weak and compromised it is.)

[iota]

Personally, regardless of the Mike Adams report, there's not much I would put past the CCP, including WW3. They certainly don't have an aversion to using strong arm tactics, or killing, including their own people. See: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111437-Communism--and-China-&p=1433897&viewfull=1#post1433897


you are not the only one speculating that this is a possibility resulting in actual strategies being employed:


https://wwwassets.rand.org/content/rand/blog/2015/09/chinas-military-modernization-eric-heginbotham-and/jcr:content/par/blogpost.aspectcrop.868x455.cm.jpg/x1495291296277.jpg



WW3 fears as US military moves ahead with secretive plans to 'encircle' China with troops


the Express Co Uk reports:


"JOE BIDEN is moving ahead with a "terrifying" plan to encircle China by planting US troops on islands around the mainland country, amid growing fears of military conflict.

There are mounting concerns that war could break out between the US and China. Former UK MP George Galloway warned that an accidental military conflict could erupt as the US floods the region with its soldiers. This comes amid a high-level Pentagon plan to send US troops to the Pacific to be in “close quarters” with China.

The US is set to spend more than $5 billion dollars alone on "the Pacific defense initiative" in 2022 as they counter the threat of China.

RT's Rick Sanchez said: "We are learning that top military officials are indicating to Congress that what they really need to do is move US military forces - actual troops - to the islands around the South China Sea, to be in 'close quarters' with China."

Some US experts have raised fears that this move will put Americans in danger with China capable of "striking hard and fast in its own neighborhood" if pushed.

The US already has over 70,000 troops in Japan and South Korea, and there are also plans to station more troops in Australia.

China has responded to the plans by criticizing Washington’s “Cold War and zero-sum mentality”.

Wang Wenbin, the Chinese Foreign Affairs Ministry spokesman, said: "Playing the China card has become an excuse for the US to increase its military expenditure and build up its military strength."

Mr Galloway noted: "The idea of encircling the country with the biggest population in the world, with the biggest army in the world, and the second-biggest economy in the world strikes me as madness.

"Encircle it for what? To blockade it? Does anyone think China will allow itself to be blockaded?"

"The idea that the US soldiers will be planted on islands around China is pregnant with so many terrifying possibilities as to chill the blood.

"It feels like the run-up to the First World War. Everyone has tooled up for war, so they might as well have a war!"

On Wednesday, the US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin issued an internal directive to "laser focus" US military "efforts to address China as the nation's number one pacing challenge."

read full article here:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1448923/US-China-military-tensions-Beijing-Washington-DC-troops-Joe-Biden-latest-news-vn

here is:


An Interactive Look at the U.S.-China Military Scorecard

"Over the past two decades, China's People's Liberation Army has transformed itself from a large but antiquated force into a capable, modern military. Although China continues to lag the United States in terms of aggregate military hardware and operational skills, it has improved its relative capabilities in many critical areas. To advance the public debate, RAND used open, unclassified sources to compile The U.S.-China Military Scorecard: Forces, Geography, and the Evolving Balance of Power. This comprehensive report examines U.S. and Chinese military capabilities in ten operational areas, and presents a "scorecard" for each.

Each scorecard assesses the relative advantage or disadvantage of U.S. and Chinese forces in diverse types of conflict, at varying distances from the Chinese mainland, at different points in time from 1996 to 2017. Advantage means that one side is able to achieve its primary objectives in an operationally relevant time period while the other side would have trouble in doing so. The chart below collects the scorecards for each evaluated operational area."


https://www.rand.org/paf/projects/us-china-scorecard.html

[onawah]

Nothing crazy in that view that someone within the US is helping it happen.
It's glaringly obvious in just this one example, that the Biden Admin is keeping the US/Mexico border open to all, and spending millions of taxpayer's money per day just to house and feed illegal immigrants and criminals of all sorts that come in every day, as well as unaccompanied children.


And, honestly, this could not be happening without someone within the US helping it happen, but i don't want to start sounding bad here, or crazy

[Eva2]

https://capforcanada.com/u-s-lawmakers-pass-bill-investigating-trudeau-government-china-relations/?fbclid=IwAR2jNTxExsuPMoNHJOgDn7NuI37exfSELSycXYvY1r-heg6Lo7p_62c3vEY
'U.S. Lawmakers Pass Bill Investigating Trudeau Government-China Relations

A bill that recently passed the U.S. Senate with strong two-party support would force the Biden administration to lay out plans for working with allies on China-related issues.

“The White House will have 90 days to publish a strategy explaining where it agrees and disagrees with Canada on China issues.”

As reported by CBC News, an expansive section of the bill is focused on Canada. The Canada portion of the bill is called the U.S. Innovation and Competition Act. Included within is a clause that would force the administration to produce a report on Canada within 90 days.

The bill focuses on a plethora of timely issues related to the Trudeau government’s relationship with China. Trade, cyber-security, Huawei, 5G networks, mineral resources, defence, Arctic, global institutions, organized crime, and the spread of authoritarian government.

“It’s going to set a foundation for years to come about how the U.S. thinks about working with Canada vis à vis strategy.”

Cultural Action Party hereby volunteer to read between the lines. In this regard, one must be mindful of the fact that the Canadian government provide well over a billion dollars per year to the CBC News corporation.

As a result, media bias and obfuscation play a significant role. What is obvious is CBC’s lack of emphasis upon U.S. lawmaker’s suspicion toward PM Justin Trudeau and the Chinese government.

While CBC do not indulge, students of Canadian politics would be wise to consider that the U.S. Government lack trust in the Canada-China relationship. Who can blame them? If media propaganda did not exist, it is like 98% of Canadians wouldn’t trust China either.

Then again, perhaps we don’t. A poll commissioned by the Angus Reid Institute in May, 2020, delivers tangible evidence:

“Just 14 per cent of adults in this country now say they have a positive opinion of China.” An inversion informs us that 86% of Canadians polled have a negative opinion of China.

Degree to which Justin Trudeau has integrated the will of the majority into Liberal-China political relations? Zero percent. How perfectly Trudeau’s disinterest in democracy aligns with governance within the behemoth nation of the Far East.

Is Canada in a situation where the Liberal’s dedication to China is so entrenched that the government of the U.S.A. has to intervene in order for change to occur?

Long term readers of CAP material know how we feel about this. In our opinion, the Liberal Party-China connection is one of the least understood phenomenons in Canadian history. As expressed ad nauseum, this process began with ex-Liberal PM Pierre Trudeau. As media refuse to confess, the relationship went through the stratosphere after Justin Trudeau captured his Canadian crown in 2015.

For the past 50 years, establishment media in Canada have played their part in keeping the entire process on the low-down. Is the United States about to intervene to root out the relationship for all the world to see?

Without such an endeavour, Justin Trudeau’s pseudo-communist conversion of Canada is sure to continue unencumbered.

— Brad Salzberg, CAP Founder ( Est. 2016)'

[onawah]

It seems like a very silly thing to do in view of all very sophisticated weapons every developed nation has now, except that it creates a lot of fear and division, which is certainly foremost among NWO goals.


Personally, regardless of the Mike Adams report, there's not much I would put past the CCP, including WW3. They certainly don't have an aversion to using strong arm tactics, or killing, including their own people. See: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111437-Communism--and-China-&p=1433897&viewfull=1#post1433897


you are not the only one speculating that this is a possibility resulting in actual strategies being employed:


https://wwwassets.rand.org/content/rand/blog/2015/09/chinas-military-modernization-eric-heginbotham-and/jcr:content/par/blogpost.aspectcrop.868x455.cm.jpg/x1495291296277.jpg



WW3 fears as US military moves ahead with secretive plans to 'encircle' China with troops


the Express Co Uk reports:


"JOE BIDEN is moving ahead with a "terrifying" plan to encircle China by planting US troops on islands around the mainland country, amid growing fears of military conflict.

There are mounting concerns that war could break out between the US and China. Former UK MP George Galloway warned that an accidental military conflict could erupt as the US floods the region with its soldiers. This comes amid a high-level Pentagon plan to send US troops to the Pacific to be in “close quarters” with China.

The US is set to spend more than $5 billion dollars alone on "the Pacific defense initiative" in 2022 as they counter the threat of China.

RT's Rick Sanchez said: "We are learning that top military officials are indicating to Congress that what they really need to do is move US military forces - actual troops - to the islands around the South China Sea, to be in 'close quarters' with China."

Some US experts have raised fears that this move will put Americans in danger with China capable of "striking hard and fast in its own neighborhood" if pushed.

The US already has over 70,000 troops in Japan and South Korea, and there are also plans to station more troops in Australia.

China has responded to the plans by criticizing Washington’s “Cold War and zero-sum mentality”.

Wang Wenbin, the Chinese Foreign Affairs Ministry spokesman, said: "Playing the China card has become an excuse for the US to increase its military expenditure and build up its military strength."

Mr Galloway noted: "The idea of encircling the country with the biggest population in the world, with the biggest army in the world, and the second-biggest economy in the world strikes me as madness.

"Encircle it for what? To blockade it? Does anyone think China will allow itself to be blockaded?"

"The idea that the US soldiers will be planted on islands around China is pregnant with so many terrifying possibilities as to chill the blood.

"It feels like the run-up to the First World War. Everyone has tooled up for war, so they might as well have a war!"

On Wednesday, the US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin issued an internal directive to "laser focus" US military "efforts to address China as the nation's number one pacing challenge."

read full article here:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1448923/US-China-military-tensions-Beijing-Washington-DC-troops-Joe-Biden-latest-news-vn

here is:


An Interactive Look at the U.S.-China Military Scorecard

"Over the past two decades, China's People's Liberation Army has transformed itself from a large but antiquated force into a capable, modern military. Although China continues to lag the United States in terms of aggregate military hardware and operational skills, it has improved its relative capabilities in many critical areas. To advance the public debate, RAND used open, unclassified sources to compile The U.S.-China Military Scorecard: Forces, Geography, and the Evolving Balance of Power. This comprehensive report examines U.S. and Chinese military capabilities in ten operational areas, and presents a "scorecard" for each.

Each scorecard assesses the relative advantage or disadvantage of U.S. and Chinese forces in diverse types of conflict, at varying distances from the Chinese mainland, at different points in time from 1996 to 2017. Advantage means that one side is able to achieve its primary objectives in an operationally relevant time period while the other side would have trouble in doing so. The chart below collects the scorecards for each evaluated operational area."


https://www.rand.org/paf/projects/us-china-scorecard.html

[Bill Ryan]

It seems like a very silly thing to do in view of all very sophisticated weapons every developed nation has nowWell, maybe not if he's following orders from China to provoke a conflict that China has already been preparing for for quite a while — and plans to win.

[Mashika]

It seems like a very silly thing to do in view of all very sophisticated weapons every developed nation has now, except that it creates a lot of fear and division, which is certainly foremost among NWO goals.

Just the same really, more spending on military build up, that will do nothing much in the end, old tactics from the cold war that don't apply anymore, as i think i mentioned on another thread a day or two ago

On that video last posted, i found interesting this part where he says "they are abnormal, and we are normal" or something on those lines. Yeah, for sure, that's impressive insight

Now i kind of regret commenting or even looking at this thread :)

Life will go on, but things will change for sure. They can try to win using an outdated worldview and obsolete framework, then maybe China will "let them eat cake" later on

[Mashika]

Next week, after the meeting with Putin and Biden, people in the US should pay attention to what Biden is going to say, on his solo conference with the press, since he can't say much if they were to have a joint conference both Putin and Biden

Next is:

Canada:
- Maybe we also want to do a "Canada First" strategy?
- Why is the US trying to tell us what to do, if we have a bigger chance to get more out of our deal with China than with the US?
- I don't like that the US is trying to control Canada, no one else is forcing us to do that
- etc

Part of the plan of course

Time will tell, but i don't think i can add much here, it's clear that the outdated world view is still what drives the way the US works against "their enemies", and as can be seen on Jill post above, nothing has changed and it just goes that way "mistrust your ally" and try to control it

So yeah

ETA: I did not think i would feel offended by being called "abnormal" and such, as that guy on the video clearly says with so much hate his mouth twists a bit. But that's life i guess, unfortunately for me it hits very close to home, and i have some respect for me still

So excusing myself out of this now, thanks for listening

Spasibo

[iota]

my only question is:

why is Joe turning on his "masters" who paid a pretty penny to "buy" his office?

a now deleted video from Dec 8, 2020 showed:

"Footage from a meeting of Communist Chinese party members late last month shows party elites are eager to open up financial markets to Joe Biden, after the Trump administration defied their influence.

In video from the meeting held late last month in Shanghai, professor Di Dongsheng explains China has traditionally been able to control the US via Wall Street and by manipulating “America’s core inner circle of power and influence.”


https://twitter.com/KyleKashuv/status/1336347865170522113

here is AN EXTREMELY important video outlining the INTRICATE ties between both the Democratic Party, Joe Biden AND CCP. It also provides documentation and disclosure that CHINA FUNDS BLM



https://www.roxytube.com/upload/videos/2021/06/7iXq4jaevZjdxf2bbupf_06_3d8c6aff5ef4e55ad71aa3517bdf88bb_video.mp4



ALL of this came out for a limited time back in December of 2020 when they suffered the embarrassment of the first ever "Leak" covered in this thread:



the FIRST EVER LEAK of a COMMUNIST PARTY DATABASE (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113284-Major-Leak-exposes-2-Million-Members-of-the-Chinese-Communist-Party-First-EVER&p=1396304&viewfull=1#post1396304)


"12/13/2020|7min ago

A major leak containing a register with the details of nearly two million CCP members has occurred –

<snip>

“What's amazing about this database is not just that it exposes people who are members of the communist party, and who are now living and working all over the world, from Australia to the US to the UK,” Ms Markson said.

“But it's amazing because it lifts the lid on how the party operates under President and Chairman Xi Jinping”.

Ms Markson said theleak demonstrates party branches are embedded in some of the world’s biggest companies and even inside government agencies.


“Communist party branches have been set up inside western companies, allowing the infiltration of those companies by CCP members - who, if called on, are answerable directly to the communist party, to the Chairman, the president himself,” she said."


OZLY-h3kGJM


Loyal members of the Chinese Communist Party are working in British consulates, universities and for some of the UK's leading companies, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

An extraordinary leaked database of 1.95 million registered party members reveals how Beijing's malign influence now stretches into almost every corner of British life, including defence firms, banks and pharmaceutical giants.

Most alarmingly, some of its members – who swear a solemn oath to 'guard Party secrets, be loyal to the Party, work hard, fight for communism throughout my life...and never betray the Party' – are understood to have secured jobs in British consulates."

full post here:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113284-Major-Leak-exposes-2-Million-Members-of-the-Chinese-Communist-Party-First-EVER&p=1396363&viewfull=1#post1396363


for decades now, the CCP sends 400,000 students EACH year to study in the United States

so very positive that involved are Feinstein's Chinese Driver as Pelosi's long time handler, i mean assistant, Governor Roy Cooper's right hand guy in feature i did here:


http://cdn.newsbusters.org/styles/mobile_thumb_700x400_/s3/images/the_story_with_martha_maccallum_-_07_07_43_pm.jpg?itok=lzv8hRD-

according to the New York post:

"In 2018, Politico reported at the time, a well-placed staffer in Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s California office was recruited by the Chinese government to report back about US politics.

Feinstein (D-Calif.) employed the Chinese spy for nearly two decades as her chauffeur, a gofer in her office and a liaison to the Asian American community, the San Francisco Chronicle reported at the time.

The paper reported that the man even attended Chinese consulate functions for the California senator."

article here:
https://nypost.com/2020/07/28/chinese-consulates-in-nyc-san-francisco-identified-as-spy-hubs/


https://nationalfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/christmaspartync.png


North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper's intimate ties to China are well known, his "handler" John Wei advised the Governor to extract blood from all 50,000 RNC attendees – and then the entire state

see post here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113284-Major-Leak-exposes-2-Million-Members-of-the-Chinese-Communist-Party-First-EVER&p=1396363&viewfull=1#post1396363)

i did extensive research on the threat when they passed their "Intel Law" in 2017 that made it MANDATORY for people of CHINESE descent to SPY .. severe repercussions ensue for failure to do this as well as extensive rewards received according to the quality of the "intel"

this is real
the "war" is real
and it HAS been in effect for a very long time now


AWARENESS is paramount
then ACTION
to regain our FREEDOM while there is still time

[holcaul]

adding this from 2020


Coronavirus, China and World War III
Health Ranger Report, Published: Tuesday, March 17, 2020
https://www.brighteon.com/1966c35c-71...WU0X6qy9QSY:bump: :bump: :bump:

Wow, many thanks for that gem. I'd been unaware of the video.

And OMG, that was March 2020. Before the US election was stolen and Biden was "installed".

I really do think that China has pretty much already overrun the US. (Canada also, for sure, and maybe even Europe.) If that's true, then it makes horrible strategic sense that a different kind of attack might suddenly happen before not too long.

I don't know if "before not too long" means this year. But it might certainly mean within the next 5 years, and maybe much sooner.

Thinking from the viewpoint of an enemy, if Nyquist is correct about the pathological mindset of the enemy's generals, then the coup de grâce — a knockout blow — may well be what will follow, capitalizing on just how weak and compromised the US is right now. (And weak and compromised it is.)

Although Nyquist’s view is well researched... but only to a certain degree. it is very narrow minded.

It seems to me that he doesn’t take in to account many other forces in play. Such as mystery schools, secret societies, alien civilizations visiting earth and the most powerful families (the European Royal families as well as Rockefellers etc).

Oh and deep state goes much deeper than “John Brennan spoke favourably about the CCP”.

PS
As John Warner IV said... “A devastating World war is bad for business”

[Delight]

Xi Van Fleet describes the similarity between Mao's cultural revolution and NOW... even to the use of "wokeness" as a term. Is this imposition of cultural Chinese style cultural marxism proof that China is behind the BLM and etc. movement?

WZwli4WdZmI

[Bill Ryan]

Although Nyquist’s view is well researched... but only to a certain degree. it is very narrow minded.

I suspect he's compensating (or some might say, overcompensating) because no-one else seems to be concerned about the same serious potential issues as he's focused on. And he's stated he's frustrated that many of the defectors he's spent a lot of time interviewing and reading, no-one else is taking very seriously either. He suspects that may be a grave mistake, and I can understand why.

I was very impressed with his knowledge of history, going back to Roman times — another thing that many other pundits ignore or are just unaware of. A conversation between him and Richard Dolan would be fascinating.

[Bill Ryan]

J.R Nyquist has a new article, published yesterday.

https://jrnyquist.blog/2021/06/12/invasion-america

Invasion America?

To achieve victory in a future war, it will not be sufficient to have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them very accurately on target; it will also be necessary that the ground forces be able to move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes. Only when this problem is solved will it be possible to speak of the effective exploitation of nuclear strikes by tanks and infantry in conclusively defeating the enemy, or of carrying out extensive maneuvers and decisive advances in depth.
Soviet Military Strategy, [p. 343]In 1990 I spoke with a Mexican gun runner. We met at the house of a someone we both knew. The Mexican placed a loaded gun on the table and spoke expansively about his “love” of mankind, his Cuban drinking buddies in Mexico, and the future destruction of the United States.

There was an unmistakable Marxist element in the gunrunner’s far-left worldview. It was clear from our conversation that he hated America and he loved communist Cuba.

My interest in the rising cross-border criminal class from Mexico stemmed from a then recently-published book by Joseph D. Douglass, Jr., titled Red Cocaine: The Drugging of America and the West (https://www.portalconservador.com/livros/Joseph-Douglass-Red-Cocaine-The-Drugging-of-America-and-the-West.pdf). This book describes “long-term Russian and Chinese intelligence operations aimed at achieving the demoralization and ultimate control of the West….” After preparing for several years, the Soviet special services entered the world of drug trafficking in 1960. They called it “Operation Friendship of Nations.”

Soviet dictator Nikita S. Khrushchev got the idea from Chairman Mao Zedong of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), who had instructed his subordinates to “begin cultivating opium on a grand scale” in 1928. According to Douglass, “Mao’s strategy was simple; use drugs to soften a target area. Then after a captured region had been secured, outlaw the use of all narcotics and impose strict controls to ensure that the poppies remained exclusively an instrument of the state for use against its enemies.” [P. 11]

In the 1950s, after Stalin’s death, the Soviet Union modernized its strategy. This involved several steps:

They founded Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow to train communists from Third World countries;
They began training terrorists from various “national liberation movements”;
They set up networks for international drug and narcotics trafficking;
they infiltrated crime syndicates throughout the world and set up their own syndicates;
they prepared sabotage networks throughout the world, which were to be in place by 1972. [P. 17-18]

The strategy respecting these five points was explained by Douglass as follows: “Narcotics, terrorism and organized crime were coordinated and used together in a complementary fashion. Drugs were used to destroy society. Terrorism was used to destabilize the targeted country and to prepare the revolutionary environment. Organized crime was used to control the elite. All three strands were long-range strategic operations and all three had been incorporated into Soviet Bloc planning by 1956.” [P. 19]

The creation of criminal cartels and the infiltration of international organized crime were key elements of “Operation Friendship of Nations.” As Douglass noted, “The main reason for infiltrating organized crime was the Soviet belief that high-quality information – information on political corruption, money and business, international relations, drug-trafficking, and counter-intelligence – was to be found in organized crime.

The Soviets reasoned that if they could successfully infiltrate organized crime, they would acquire unusually promising scope for controlling many politicians and would have access to the best information on drugs, money, weapons and corruption of many kinds.” [P. 18]

How successful was the Soviet and Chinese strategy in subverting the United States? Undoubtedly they compromised America’s banks. They bought many politicians. They corrupted bureaucrats, police officials and intelligence officers. But that is nothing compared to the success they had in Mexico.

Chinese and Cubans in Mexico

In 2003 a Las Vegas journalist named Scott Gulbransen published a book titled The Silent Invasion (https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Invasion-Scott-Gulbransen/dp/097085983X/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=The+Silent+Invasion+Scott+Gulbransen&qid=1623269204&sr=8-1). It was about Chinese and Cuban infiltration of northern Mexico and the U.S. southern border. Through the good offices of a Tijuana pimp named Reynaldo, Gulbransen obtained an interview with the leader of a communist group called La Conquidistas.

Keeping his head down, Gulbransen was driven to a secret location. When he was allowed to look out the window again, he saw a sign depicting an armed man pointing to an image of the state of California. On the sign it read, “Viva Mexico, Viva Baja California.” When he arrived at the meeting place, he was searched.

Men with automatic weapons and red scarves were guarding the location. Gulbransen was directed to a trailer at the back of the property. He was told to address el jefe [the boss] as “señor,” and not to ask too many questions. On entering the trailer, he was overcome by the smell of cat piss. Behind a massive maple desk sat a large man in a camouflage jump suit, wearing cheap sunglasses and smoking a cigarette. The following conversation took place:
EL JEFE: So you are the reporter?
GULBRANSEN: No, sir. I am writing a book on the U.S.-Mexican border.
EL JEFE: This I know. And what do you plan to say about the border and the people of Mexico?
GULBRANSEN: I plan to discuss the problems of your people and some of the strange things going on down here.
EL JEFE: What strange things, my friend?
GULBRANSEN: Well, there’s been incidents with our border patrol who claim they’ve been fired on by Mexican soldiers and soldiers that appear to be Chinese.
EL JEFE: Very well. But I must tell you, you are traveling down a dangerous road. Besides, no matter what you find, no one will believe it.
El jefe then told Gulbransen, “We are the true Mexican people tired of the economic oppression handed down by the United States. We want our freedom and we want our northern provinces of Tejas, Nuevo Mexico, Arizona and Alta California.”

Question: Why did this maniac with cheap sunglasses think he could wrest four states away from the world’s premier military power? El Jefe’s answer was: “We have friends throughout the world.” Was this a reference to China and Cuba?

El Jefe laughed and ended the interview. As Gulbransen departed, el Jefe said: “You tell the fat Americans about the real Mexico. You tell them their day to pay is coming fast. Coming very fast.”

This encounter made Gulbransen more curious than ever. So, he began an extensive investigation. What did he find? He stumbled on testimony from multiple sources indicating that Chinese ships were delivering arms, ammunition, uniforms and men into Baja California through the port of Ensenada. In addition, border agents told him the Chinese were smuggling uniforms and ammunition into the United States.

Then there was the story of Tijuana policeman Jesus de la Rosa. Because de la Rosa was honest and did not take bribes or inform on his corrupt colleagues, he came to be trusted by his superiors. One night de la Rosa’s captain asked him to drive to a desert location south of Mexicali to meet with a Cuban. There he was given a package of money with a shopping list which included ammunition, beer, rice, cement mix, and Tijuana police uniforms.

The Cuban asked that de la Rosa deliver these items. It would be an ongoing job. After making several supply runs to this desert location, de la Rosa asked the Cuban what was going on. The Cuban trusted him and showed him around a secret “army encampment.” The first soldier he met spoke a European language, had blond hair and an enormous scar across his forehead. There were ten black tents with a satellite dish connected to one of them.

De la Rosa had been in the Mexican Army and realized this camp was not Mexican. The camp had Chinese, North Korean and Cuban commandos in it. Jesus de la Rosa told Gulbransen, “I don’t care if people think I am crazy, but I think the U.S. is going to be attacked. Chinese, Koreans, Cubans – they all hate the U.S. What I can’t understand is what Mexico has to do with it and how the U.S. can’t see it.”

Months after giving this testimony, de la Rosa was murdered. Gulbransen explained, “Several other sources, sources not named in this book … have also come on hard times. Several lost their jobs suddenly, others became ill with unusual ailments. Still others were harassed and even physically threatened due to their involvement.” [P. 208]

I corresponded with Gulbransen in June of 2003. He was having a hard time since the publication of the book.

He said, “I’ve been followed, bumped (with a car) and these cars have also ‘cased’ my house. They’re always the same car – Ford Taurus sedans. Different colors but always the same [model]. When they bump me, it’s usually from behind at a stop light. I get out to exchange insurance, and they take off. Once, the driver (always white males 25-35) told me I am lucky I didn’t get killed and then sped off. I’ve reported them to local police and the tags are always ‘retired.’ The casing of my house I’ve also reported and each time the police never do a thing. I’ve also been followed on foot when I am in New York and also several times shopping with my family. Always the same ‘looking’ white male who follows me, enough to make it known. Almost like they want me to know and be scared … which I am not. I also have been approached by attractive women … who flirt (I am married with two kids) and say cryptic things like ‘You look like you’re a safe person….’ Or ‘Be careful not to get hurt….’ These all come out of thin air and have no context.”

Was Gulbransen being paranoid? I am inclined to think not. As Nietzsche once wrote, “if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” About a decade ago (give or take) I called Gulbransen to see how he was doing. He sounded good. He was glad his Mexican adventure was behind him. He had decided to never touch the subject again. Can you blame him?

Why nukes are not enough

The quote from Soviet Military Strategy, with which I began this essay, is something that most U.S. military experts have missed. As Chinese generals were trained in Marxist-Leninist schools and shared the same philosophy as Soviet generals, there is a common strategic mindset at work in China and Russia. These people do not think like American generals.

“To achieve victory in a future war,” their guiding text says, “it will not be sufficient to have nuclear weapons … it will also be necessary that the ground forces be able to move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes. Only when this problem is solved will it be possible to speak of the effective exploitation of nuclear strikes by tanks and infantry in conclusively defeating the enemy, or of carrying out extensive maneuvers and decisive advances in depth.”

Think of it this way: bombs cannot take over a country. Only soldiers can do that. The real question is: How would you get Chinese soldiers into the United States in the opening days of a war? There are at least three scenarios:


you could move military personnel by ship to prepared enclaves in Mexico on the eve of war;
you could move military personnel by ship toward [I]American ports;
you could fly troops to specially prepared airfields.

Today, Chinese ships are docking up and down the West Coast and in Mexico. We never think of those ships in terms of military sealift capacity. But, in truth, they can move troops and supplies into North America just as easily as they can move consumer goods.

What Scott Gulbransen saw in Ensenada almost twenty years ago was nothing compared to the massive off-loading that goes on every day in Southern California or San Francisco Bay. What might they off-load into our ports if war is about to break out? Do we have troops guarding our ports now?

GRU defector Stanislav Lunev told me that Russian and Chinese plans for invading America were based on Germany’s 1940 invasion of Norway. The Germans infiltrated Norway with “tourists.” They had hidden storage facilities with uniforms and weapons. The Germans also put military personnel into merchant ships (instead of the usual merchandise). They sailed right past the British navy.

Why? Because they did not look like military ships carrying troops. Imagine, if you will, the access which China enjoys to our port facilities. Imagine, as well, Chinese access to airstrips that might be used to airlift troops deep into American territory. (And yes, there are such airstrips!)

[B]Birds of a feather prepare together

The Chinese communists, of course, are now talking about war with the United States. Consider the Newsweek (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-state-media-says-country-must-prepare-for-nuclear-war-with-us-after-biden-asks-for-covid-probe/ar-AAKBDdb) headline which reads, “China State Media Says Country Must Prepare for Nuclear War With U.S. After Biden Asks for COVID Probe.” Consider another disturbing Newsweek headline from 10 June: “China Increasing Military Capability at ‘Serious and Sustained Rate,’ Top U.S. General Says.” (https://www.newsweek.com/china-increasing-military-capability-serious-sustained-rate-top-us-general-says-1599478)

According to this story, Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, “warned on Thursday that China’s military is rapidly expanding its capabilities, saying that the U.S. must take steps to ensure it maintains a competitive advantage moving forward.” But China is not America’s only worry. On 26 May General Milley made an even more noteworthy comment (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-peace-with-china-russia-fraying-joint-chiefs-chairman-says). He warned that “fraying” relations with China and Russia required an urgent improvement in ties to prevent a “great power war.”

This is strange advice coming from our leading general. For the last thirty years we have been working to improve ties with Russia and China. And where has this gotten us? We have given the Russians and Chinese every break. They take advantage of us at every turn. They steal and they lie. They break treaties. They commit aggression against their neighbors. (Russia against Ukraine, China against Hong Kong.) We have sent them credits, technology, and more.

And what do we get for our pains? America now finds that Russia and China are arrayed against us. General Milley says we must use diplomacy to get ourselves out of this mess. But diplomacy is what got us in it; that is, when Kissinger and Nixon “played the China card” all those years ago. And now General Milley wants President Biden to “play the Russia card” – as if Russia and China were cards that we might play with ease. No! Russia and China are players, not cards; and they have played us.

I am sorry, General Milley, but avoiding a great power conflict is not up to us. We stupidly failed to maintain the balance of power. We wrongly believed that Russia and China were enemies that could never join forces. Our “brilliant” statesmen and our Pentagon strategists made no preparation for this eventuality. Furthermore, we had decades of warnings about this very thing – from Russian defectors!

In 1984 KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn warned that the Sino-Soviet split was a deception; that after the “collapse” of the Soviet Union Moscow and Beijing would cleverly shift the balance of power against America and suddenly combine their strength into what he called “one clenched fist.”

In 1998 GRU defector Stanislav Lunev warned that Russia and China had developed a war plan against North America. There would be an invasion, he said, in which Russia took Alaska and parts of Canada while China took the lower 48 states. “Fraying’ relations is not the cause of our woes, General Milley; rather, the cause is our own strategic incapacity and readiness to fall into every trap our enemies set for us.

America’s policymakers have failed. They failed to understand their enemy’s strategy. They even failed to properly identify their enemy. Let me explain it in very simple terms: China is part of the “socialist camp.” Russia is part of the “socialist camp.” Cuba and North Korea are part of the “socialist camp.” Their long-range policy is designed to defeat the United States. It is a comprehensive policy, involving all areas of science, government and business.

They were never going to give freedom to their people. They were never going to put away their enmity for us. And yet, our elites wanted to believe the Cold War was over. They wanted to believe in the so-called “collapse of communism.” But it was all nonsense. Just look around you. Look at Venezuela, or Cuba, or Africa, or Mexico! (Or even Canada!)

Our pundits and our professors told us that communism was a failed economic system. Such was our conceit; but I tell you: There has never been a communist economic system. The Soviet Union and Red China never had such a system. The communist bloc always practiced a form of state capitalism that restricted consumption (in the same sense that a plantation restricts the consumption of its slaves). Communism is not really about economics. It is about world revolution and the acquisition of absolute power.

Whatever forays into Mexico the Chinese and their allies have made in the past, you can bet there are more Chinese in Baja today than ever. You can also bet that China is stockpiling weapons and uniforms right here, inside the United States. Black Lives Matter, step aside. The real liberators are coming.

Moscow and Beijing have always known that America will never become a truly “socialist” country. After all, why would they want a socialist America? The United States itself must be leveled to the ground, said Stalin in the 1930s, when “the present capitalist encirclement [of the USSR] is replaced by a socialist encirclement [of capitalism] ….” A Marxist takeover of America is only meant to soften the country up, to make it ready for destruction.

But destruction is not the final goal. As Sokolovsky’s text explained, ground forces will be necessary if the ground is to be conquered. Troops and tanks are needed to “move rapidly into regions which have been subjected to nuclear strikes.” In the paragraph quoted from Sokolovsky’s Soviet Military Strategy at the beginning of this article, the final sentence reads: “If required, the vehicles [used to transport troops] should be transportable by air along with the troops.”

What would you say if a Chinese general acquired a 200-square-mile area in Texas to build a fake wind farm? What would you say if that same Chinese general was building a 10,000-foot runway on that same property? Watch this video and see if I am mistaken:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPChSpLdELU

[Bill Ryan]

The comments to the new Nyquist article posted immediately above are well worth reading. (More are coming in every hour)

Here are just two:


I am Canadian-born, living in Ontario. The feeling of imminent, irreversible catastrophe for this country is everywhere, particularly in those who deny it. The sense of impending doom is like a huge ripple through the air.



Judi McLeod of Canada Free Press (she is based in Toronto) has expressed a similar sentiment in an article yesterday:
https://canadafreepress.com/article/covid-19-opening-the-door-to-communism-in-north-america (https://canadafreepress.com/article/covid-19-opening-the-door-to-communism-in-north-america)

[Sirus]

Very interesting, and I've had similar thoughts about the possibility of Russia and China making these kinds of moves. However, China really would get demolished, due to the European powers, Australia, and the UK and commonwealth (Europe has a very large army).
China would be fighting a war on many fronts. They would need a massive one-two punch and the resources to keep an occupation going. I just don't see it.

Having said that, can we really trust the EU and Nato??

[iota]

It seems like a very silly thing to do in view of all very sophisticated weapons every developed nation has nowWell, maybe not if he's following orders from China to provoke a conflict that China has already been preparing for for quite a while — and plans to win.

They are NOW putting our cadets in Solitary Confinement if they refuse the jab

as NO more than cattle or slaves with NO sovereignty over their bodies

a MILITARY force thus infected? WOULD/COULD guarantee victory

i feel it is imperative that the fury everyone expressed at their being put in a garage overnight NOW be expressed in action over this action that WILL change their DNA and alter their bodies PERMANENTLY .. forever

our CHILDREN NEED US

we CANNOT let them down

read article and post here: (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113363-BREAKING-NEWS-Continuously-Updated&p=1434192&viewfull=1#post1434192)

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113363-BREAKING-NEWS-Continuously-Updated&p=1434192&viewfull=1#post1434192

[onawah]

The way in which the CCP pushes for "Oneness" reminds me of ET "hive mind" civilizations, where individuals are barely indistinguishable from each other.
Perhaps that is the final step before a race becomes completely "transhumanized", as if conformity and the loss of individuality were virtues.
(What a terrible, feeble substitute for real Oneness! )
At which point they may be sterile and have to be cloned just to continue existing.
(If that can be called existing.)
No wonder some of the Greys have gone to the trouble of time-traveling back to this time to prevent this kind of thing happening here, if those stories are true (which I don't doubt).

[Mashika]

Not only China does that, i have read in the US a lot about "we all are the same", "i'm color blind, i don't see race" and things like the cancel culture where if someone thinks different they are "defective" and must be erased

In the end is the same thing, but using a more adequate format for the audience

Specifically i think the "i don't see race" is a way to make everyone deny the reality and accept the richness of everyone having great historical customs and origins, and instead replacing them slowly for a "one single human kind" that represents no one in particular and just represents the "human race", in a way that all must think the same or they get cancelled and lose everything in life

It's the same social credit system implemented by China, just under more acceptable terms for westerners

Make a small mistake, it can count against your social credit. Make a big one, your entire career is over, good luck finding a new job when everyone knows your sin and you are a meme on Reddit

Just the same



The way in which the CCP pushes for "Oneness" reminds me of ET "hive mind" civilizations, where individuals are barely indistinguishable from each other.
Perhaps that is the final step before a race becomes completely "transhumanized", as if conformity and the loss of individuality were virtues.
(What a terrible, feeble substitute for real Oneness! )
At which point they may be sterile and have to be cloned just to continue existing.
(If that can be called existing.)
No wonder some of the Greys have gone to the trouble of time-traveling back to this time to prevent this kind of thing happening here, if those stories are true (which I don't doubt).

[onawah]

Yes, but what is even more sinister perhaps is that many whistleblowers are claiming that the "cancel culture" movement in the US is actually being funded by China and by globalists like George Soros.

[Mashika]

Yes, but what is even more sinister perhaps is that many whistleblowers are claiming that the "cancel culture" movement is actually being funded by China and by globalists like George Soros.

I don't doubt it at all

I don't know why, by i always felt a rejection to China, not to the people themselves, i have good friends there, but somehow, just reading or listening to anything coming from their government, causes an immediate reaction of rejection.

I've met some people who were working government on China, and they all act like they want to ask you things in ways as to get more from you than you want to give out, or try to push you to make a mistake 100% of the time

It's just foul in ways i don't know how to describe, and it's bothersome badly, really

[Bill Ryan]

Here's Mike Adams' new situation update for today. He said at the very start he was frazzled, and he sounded like it. It's all about China attacking North America. He says the info he's recently learned goes "beyond Nyquist". I've just started to listen.

https://www.brighteon.com/1f675cc1-8587-4ba8-9a7b-9d4d63bd761f

1f675cc1-8587-4ba8-9a7b-9d4d63bd761f

[Eva2]

I posted this video in Breaking News thread but this is probably a better place for this:
I can't remember who posted this video (I think late January) but after reading justntime2learn post, this video came to mind immediately.

' Posted by justntime2learn (here)
China Sends Record 28 Fighter Jets Toward Taiwan

Quote 15 Jun 2021
Associated Press | By Huizhong Wu
TAIPEI, Taiwan — China flew a record 28 fighter jets toward the self-ruled island of Taiwan on Tuesday, the island's defense ministry said, the largest such display of force since Beijing began sending planes on a near daily basis last year.

Taiwan's air force deployed its combat air patrol forces in response and monitored the situation in the southwestern part of the island's air defense identification zone with its air defense systems, the Ministry of National Defense said.
Link: https://www.military.com/daily-news/...rd-taiwan.html' Unquote

Lots of fire and brimstone in this video (particularly towards the end) but the latter part of the speech references the General’s comment about Taiwan - something to effect that we will attack Taiwan and people will think its about Taiwan but it won’t be about Taiwan, it will be about North America and this will herald the first attack on America.
https://www.trunews.com/stream/china-general-pla-must-kill-all-americans-with-biological-weapons

[Gekko]

The way in which the CCP pushes for "Oneness" reminds me of ET "hive mind" civilizations, where individuals are barely indistinguishable from each other.
Perhaps that is the final step before a race becomes completely "transhumanized", as if conformity and the loss of individuality were virtues.
(What a terrible, feeble substitute for real Oneness! )
At which point they may be sterile and have to be cloned just to continue existing.
(If that can be called existing.)
No wonder some of the Greys have gone to the trouble of time-traveling back to this time to prevent this kind of thing happening here, if those stories are true (which I don't doubt).

The question is, how do you tell the difference between false unity and the real deal? (Also, I think "unity" is a better word than "oneness", because while in the end we are indeed all one, it leaves no room for individual freedom).

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Yes, but what is even more sinister perhaps is that many whistleblowers are claiming that the "cancel culture" movement is actually being funded by China and by globalists like George Soros.

I don't doubt it at all

I don't know why, by i always felt a rejection to China, not to the people themselves, i have good friends there, but somehow, just reading or listening to anything coming from their government, causes an immediate reaction of rejection.

I've met some people who were working government on China, and they all act like they want to ask you things in ways as to get more from you than you want to give out, or try to push you to make a mistake 100% of the time

It's just foul in ways i don't know how to describe, and it's bothersome badly, really

A lot of my college friends are "Tankies". I never bought their propaganda, although I am broadly anti-capitalist.

[Mashika]

The way in which the CCP pushes for "Oneness" reminds me of ET "hive mind" civilizations, where individuals are barely indistinguishable from each other.
Perhaps that is the final step before a race becomes completely "transhumanized", as if conformity and the loss of individuality were virtues.
(What a terrible, feeble substitute for real Oneness! )
At which point they may be sterile and have to be cloned just to continue existing.
(If that can be called existing.)
No wonder some of the Greys have gone to the trouble of time-traveling back to this time to prevent this kind of thing happening here, if those stories are true (which I don't doubt).

The question is, how do you tell the difference between false unity and the real deal? (Also, I think "unity" is a better word than "oneness", because while in the end we are indeed all one, it leaves no room for individual freedom).

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Yes, but what is even more sinister perhaps is that many whistleblowers are claiming that the "cancel culture" movement is actually being funded by China and by globalists like George Soros.

I don't doubt it at all

I don't know why, by i always felt a rejection to China, not to the people themselves, i have good friends there, but somehow, just reading or listening to anything coming from their government, causes an immediate reaction of rejection.

I've met some people who were working government on China, and they all act like they want to ask you things in ways as to get more from you than you want to give out, or try to push you to make a mistake 100% of the time

It's just foul in ways i don't know how to describe, and it's bothersome badly, really

A lot of my college friends are "Tankies". I never bought their propaganda, although I am broadly anti-capitalist.

I would not follow either, i don't know why they would feel that's a normal thing or acceptable at all these days, we all should know better now

[Savannah]

https://www.brighteon.com/4fd82b43-7722-4fd5-91d6-7970fa9eea36

Jeffrey Prather interview: Deep dive into USA, China and Russia military capabilities and vulnerabilities.

4fd82b43-7722-4fd5-91d6-7970fa9eea36

[Bill Ryan]

More from J.R Nyquist, published yesterday:

https://jrnyquist.blog/2021/06/19/interview-with-nevin-red-dawn-in-retrospect/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAZo3MbsLOA
Extract from the interview, the referenced fine detail in which I found absorbing and compelling:
We’ve got a biological war going on. The Chinese are telling their people to get ready for nuclear war. The Russians are getting ready…. These are all pre-war signs. The Russians are getting rid of the dollars in their sovereign funds; and then you have these mass assassinations, these drone attacks in Mexico…. This is very important for them, for pre-positioning small units of Spetsnaz troops.

[Agape]

The way in which the CCP pushes for "Oneness" reminds me of ET "hive mind" civilizations, where individuals are barely indistinguishable from each other.
Perhaps that is the final step before a race becomes completely "transhumanized", as if conformity and the loss of individuality were virtues.
(What a terrible, feeble substitute for real Oneness! )
At which point they may be sterile and have to be cloned just to continue existing.
(If that can be called existing.)
No wonder some of the Greys have gone to the trouble of time-traveling back to this time to prevent this kind of thing happening here, if those stories are true (which I don't doubt).



I’ve followed this train of thought discretely for many years, without saying and could it be that communist regimes are the “greys experiment”.

The weirdest example of which is probably North Korea.

The idea of “unity” in these regimes seems to be reserved for party members and their supporters, obviously, it does not always apply to humanity in total :
or why would there still be two Koreas till now with people speaking one language, having common relatives and ancestors yet so strongly divided by systematic brainwashing on both sides they can’t help each other,
on small peninsula, and so forth.

Notice that the uniform greys society still depend on “leader”.

Any of those communist regimes claim to be democratic in nature - people should be able to run their countries in accordance with people’s needs - however, the exact opposite is true. People are usually powerless against decisions of one ( or group of) rather obscure individuals on the top who is venerated as godlike figure,

the same was true with famous personality cults and founders of communism in former SU and the rest of countries who ever followed the idea.


So that’s a clear message that the regime won’t run “by people’s power” as prophesized but requires huge amount of talent in human manipulation.


And in many ways it isn’t different in extreme from religious cults maintaining similar idea of “simplicity is all that is needed” , with people dressed in any kinds of uniforms ( yes the beautiful grey robes of zen monks keep reminding me of it together with the orchestral manner and discipline they maintain themselves ,
could it be they’re the “successful part of the experiment” but how many people of today would be actually able to live like that , say for the rest of their lifetime ?).

That’s it about humans. Each human being is unique and creatively different from others.

The psychology of no-self and selfless service to society has its light and dark side like everything on this planet.

How many people other than few “radicals” understand how vulnerable human soul is and how easily people lose it,
in today’s technocratic era many consider their future as co-emergent with future AI while their individual selves seem empty of meaning to them,
they function as “intelligence” that is being voluntarily digitalized,
they’re “empty of philosophical content” and their soul calls are on mute.


Cults whether they’re political, religious or other generally do not support individual evolution. Their agenda is about turning everyone the same, by form and content.

In case of genuine religions, that effort has very little to do with their true founders, whether we speak of Buddha, Jesus or Mohammad and the way they taught,
individual students according to individual dispositions.

The ways people practiced their meditation ( in this context and for example) has never been uniform either or a matter of “group exercise”.

These days people turn everything to a “program” and turn themselves to the program so once that happens I think, it makes them forget about inner effort other than an effort to resonate with the program.
Forget about doubts and questions :)


🙏

[onawah]

If AI and Archons (or discarnate entities, demons, or whatever we wish to call them) are intimately connected as some have asserted, then that tendency toward uniformity is similar to the "Borg"-like necessity to "assimilate", which is also a way of making everything and everyone conform to one standard.

Whether it's AI or demonic forces which form and control the Greys and/or the Communist ideal, both are destructive to Spirit as we know it, and appear to share the same basic goal, which is to nullify any kind of originality or creativity.
That, in essence, is anti-Life, and though destructive, is still powerful.

There is evidence that different nations on Earth are being influenced by different ET races, and the character of Communism in Asia certainly seems to suggest that whatever ET race or races focusing there are "Borg"-like, and it would seem likely that the push for Communism to take over the world could be that same urge to "assimilate".

Some of the other nations which are characterized by greater freedom for their citizenry are reportedly also being influenced, but by other kinds of ET races, and so the conflicts between nations and individuals vs government may be a reflection of the same conflicts that are ongoing elsewhere in the galaxy.

It seems odd to me that the kinds of ET civilizations that would be in opposition to the kind that fosters such radical conformity are so much less in evidence at this point in time on Earth.

I would think it would be to their advantage to prevent the planet being overtaken by such a negative agenda, even if it meant interfering in some way in our internal affairs, if that at least served to create a better balance.

It's been the subject of discussion for a long time, but as we see things becoming more and more unbalanced, it seems likely it is destined to become a focal point again, and if so, hopefully we will have more information forthcoming this time around that will shed more light on what so far has remained very obscure.




The way in which the CCP pushes for "Oneness" reminds me of ET "hive mind" civilizations, where individuals are barely indistinguishable from each other.
Perhaps that is the final step before a race becomes completely "transhumanized", as if conformity and the loss of individuality were virtues.
(What a terrible, feeble substitute for real Oneness! )
At which point they may be sterile and have to be cloned just to continue existing.
(If that can be called existing.)
No wonder some of the Greys have gone to the trouble of time-traveling back to this time to prevent this kind of thing happening here, if those stories are true (which I don't doubt).



I’ve followed this train of thought discretely for many years, without saying and could it be that communist regimes are the “greys experiment”.

The weirdest example of which is probably North Korea.

The idea of “unity” in these regimes seems to be reserved for party members and their supporters, obviously, it does not always apply to humanity in total :
or why would there still be two Koreas till now with people speaking one language, having common relatives and ancestors yet so strongly divided by systematic brainwashing on both sides they can’t help each other,
on small peninsula, and so forth.

Notice that the uniform greys society still depend on “leader”.

Any of those communist regimes claim to be democratic in nature - people should be able to run their countries in accordance with people’s needs - however, the exact opposite is true. People are usually powerless against decisions of one ( or group of) rather obscure individuals on the top who is venerated as godlike figure,

the same was true with famous personality cults and founders of communism in former SU and the rest of countries who ever followed the idea.


So that’s a clear message that the regime won’t run “by people’s power” as prophesized but requires huge amount of talent in human manipulation.


And in many ways it isn’t different in extreme from religious cults maintaining similar idea of “simplicity is all that is needed” , with people dressed in any kinds of uniforms ( yes the beautiful grey robes of zen monks keep reminding me of it together with the orchestral manner and discipline they maintain themselves ,
could it be they’re the “successful part of the experiment” but how many people of today would be actually able to live like that , say for the rest of their lifetime ?).

That’s it about humans. Each human being is unique and creatively different from others.

The psychology of no-self and selfless service to society has its light and dark side like everything on this planet.

How many people other than few “radicals” understand how vulnerable human soul is and how easily people lose it,
in today’s technocratic era many consider their future as co-emergent with future AI while their individual selves seem empty of meaning to them,
they function as “intelligence” that is being voluntarily digitalized,
they’re “empty of philosophical content” and their soul calls are on mute.


Cults whether they’re political, religious or other generally do not support individual evolution. Their agenda is about turning everyone the same, by form and content.

In case of genuine religions, that effort has very little to do with their true founders, whether we speak of Buddha, Jesus or Mohammad and the way they taught,
individual students according to individual dispositions.

The ways people practiced their meditation ( in this context and for example) has never been uniform either or a matter of “group exercise”.

These days people turn everything to a “program” and turn themselves to the program so once that happens I think, it makes them forget about inner effort other than an effort to resonate with the program.
Forget about doubts and questions :)


🙏

[Eva2]

This is Scarlett Yan - she made a report last year and I think she disappeared but seems to be back. Maybe, in the end, it will be the Chinese who will be the heros and bring down this agenda.

https://www.facebook.com/faith143/videos/10222451726473702

[Savannah]

The way in which the CCP pushes for "Oneness" reminds me of ET "hive mind" civilizations, where individuals are barely indistinguishable from each other.
Perhaps that is the final step before a race becomes completely "transhumanized", as if conformity and the loss of individuality were virtues.
(What a terrible, feeble substitute for real Oneness! )
At which point they may be sterile and have to be cloned just to continue existing.
(If that can be called existing.)
No wonder some of the Greys have gone to the trouble of time-traveling back to this time to prevent this kind of thing happening here, if those stories are true (which I don't doubt).



I’ve followed this train of thought discretely for many years, without saying and could it be that communist regimes are the “greys experiment”.

The weirdest example of which is probably North Korea.

The idea of “unity” in these regimes seems to be reserved for party members and their supporters, obviously, it does not always apply to humanity in total :
or why would there still be two Koreas till now with people speaking one language, having common relatives and ancestors yet so strongly divided by systematic brainwashing on both sides they can’t help each other,
on small peninsula, and so forth.

Notice that the uniform greys society still depend on “leader”.

Any of those communist regimes claim to be democratic in nature - people should be able to run their countries in accordance with people’s needs - however, the exact opposite is true. People are usually powerless against decisions of one ( or group of) rather obscure individuals on the top who is venerated as godlike figure,

the same was true with famous personality cults and founders of communism in former SU and the rest of countries who ever followed the idea.


So that’s a clear message that the regime won’t run “by people’s power” as prophesized but requires huge amount of talent in human manipulation.


And in many ways it isn’t different in extreme from religious cults maintaining similar idea of “simplicity is all that is needed” , with people dressed in any kinds of uniforms ( yes the beautiful grey robes of zen monks keep reminding me of it together with the orchestral manner and discipline they maintain themselves ,
could it be they’re the “successful part of the experiment” but how many people of today would be actually able to live like that , say for the rest of their lifetime ?).

That’s it about humans. Each human being is unique and creatively different from others.

The psychology of no-self and selfless service to society has its light and dark side like everything on this planet.

How many people other than few “radicals” understand how vulnerable human soul is and how easily people lose it,
in today’s technocratic era many consider their future as co-emergent with future AI while their individual selves seem empty of meaning to them,
they function as “intelligence” that is being voluntarily digitalized,
they’re “empty of philosophical content” and their soul calls are on mute.


Cults whether they’re political, religious or other generally do not support individual evolution. Their agenda is about turning everyone the same, by form and content.

In case of genuine religions, that effort has very little to do with their true founders, whether we speak of Buddha, Jesus or Mohammad and the way they taught,
individual students according to individual dispositions.

The ways people practiced their meditation ( in this context and for example) has never been uniform either or a matter of “group exercise”.

These days people turn everything to a “program” and turn themselves to the program so once that happens I think, it makes them forget about inner effort other than an effort to resonate with the program.
Forget about doubts and questions :)


🙏

I'm so glad you brought this up. It's not my intention to derail the tread but it seems the powers that be, negative aliens and their human pawns, utilize the changes they know are coming and use it to their advantage. Is it possible they know as we increase in energy and dimension we move into more collective interactions and eventually group soul collectives. Thus they take advantage of our desire for that unity and distort it into totalitarian control. All socialist, communist parties started out helping the oppressed. The Grays live in a AI hive mind collective. According to Gigi Young, they are failed humans from a previous time line, who went down the AI path and did not ascend organically. They want us to be held back in 3D as their energetic food source because they lost their connection to source energy. They want us living in communism, that is really totalitarianism, enforced by AI and other biological manipulations. What some are now calling the Woke, may be just be people opening who want unity and but are naive and that positive desire is being hijacked and turned negative.

[Bill Ryan]

A very long and VERY interesting new article from J.R Nyquist, published yesterday. Way too long to copy it all here, but recommended:


https://jrnyquist.blog/2021/07/09/political-insanity-a-diagnosis

Political Insanity: A Diagnosis

Many Americans, especially politicians, suffer from a form of insanity. They continue to turn a blind eye to the military preparations of Russia and China. These preparations should be front and center, but they are not. The attentive citizen glimpses the danger out of the corner of one eye, now and again. A series of “little” warnings trickle in from abroad. For example: “Japanese official warns U.S. of potential surprise attack on Hawaii – from Russia and China.” (https://news.yahoo.com/japanese-official-warns-us-potential-200100225.html)

More alarming than this, a source in Ukraine (which I will not name) says that Russia’s military has secretly agreed on a price for Mexican cartels to smuggle Russian Spetsnaz commandos across the U.S.-Mexican border. This, of course, is consistent with the following Russian war preparations: “Russian jets practice bombing enemy ships days after threatening to sink HMS Defender amid NATO war games” (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15480537/fears-as-russian-jets-practice-bombing-near-nato-drills/) and “Putin approves new National Security Strategy preparing Russian economy for war (http://uawire.org/putin-approves-new-national-security-strategy-preparing-russian-economy-for-war).”

Going back to May 8, we read the headline: “China was preparing for a Third World War with biological weapons – including coronavirus – SIX years ago, according to dossier produced by the People’s Liberation Army in 2015 and uncovered by the U.S. State Department.” (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9556415/China-preparing-WW3-biological-weapons-six-years-investigators-say.html) In early May, according to information acquired from a Hong Kong businessman with contacts in Beijing, the Chinese Communist leadership has been expecting war with the United States within “months” – not years.

As if to confirm this information, China is planning for mass conscriptions (https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2021/07/07/china-Chinese-conscription-draft-regulation-wartime/1131625663551/) and for the return of demobilized veterans to active duty. As if to blame the behind-hand United States for all these Russian and Chinese war preparations, Russian news sources are attempting to blame America: See, especially, “US Actively Prepares for War with Russia” | New Eastern Outlook (journal-neo.org) (https://journal-neo.org/2021/05/31/us-actively-prepares-for-war-with-russia/).

For those who have been paying close attention, none of this is news. China and Russia were making small telltale war preparations twenty-two years ago. Almost nobody noticed. A thoughtful observer might have understood (back then) the intent behind China’s longstanding stockpiling of gold, or Russia’s extensive underground Urals construction program during the 1990s, or China’s growing interest in places like Panama, the Strait of Malacca and the Cape of Good Hope.

Strategy is not a difficult subject if you are willing to dispense with liberal illusions (i.e., belief in the “end of history”) or conservative illusions (“Reagan won the Cold War”). Early indications of Russia’s long-planned military buildup were seen in the testing of new prototype weapons during the Second Chechen War. But who bothered to notice?

(...the article continues (https://jrnyquist.blog/2021/07/09/political-insanity-a-diagnosis))

[Mashika]

A very long and VERY interesting new article from J.R Nyquist, published yesterday. Way too long to copy it all here, but recommended:


https://jrnyquist.blog/2021/07/09/political-insanity-a-diagnosis

Political Insanity: A Diagnosis

Many Americans, especially politicians, suffer from a form of insanity. They continue to turn a blind eye to the military preparations of Russia and China. These preparations should be front and center, but they are not. The attentive citizen glimpses the danger out of the corner of one eye, now and again. A series of “little” warnings trickle in from abroad. For example: “Japanese official warns U.S. of potential surprise attack on Hawaii – from Russia and China.” (https://news.yahoo.com/japanese-official-warns-us-potential-200100225.html)

More alarming than this, a source in Ukraine (which I will not name) says that Russia’s military has secretly agreed on a price for Mexican cartels to smuggle Russian Spetsnaz commandos across the U.S.-Mexican border. This, of course, is consistent with the following Russian war preparations: “Russian jets practice bombing enemy ships days after threatening to sink HMS Defender amid NATO war games” (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15480537/fears-as-russian-jets-practice-bombing-near-nato-drills/) and “Putin approves new National Security Strategy preparing Russian economy for war (http://uawire.org/putin-approves-new-national-security-strategy-preparing-russian-economy-for-war).”

Going back to May 8, we read the headline: “China was preparing for a Third World War with biological weapons – including coronavirus – SIX years ago, according to dossier produced by the People’s Liberation Army in 2015 and uncovered by the U.S. State Department.” (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9556415/China-preparing-WW3-biological-weapons-six-years-investigators-say.html) In early May, according to information acquired from a Hong Kong businessman with contacts in Beijing, the Chinese Communist leadership has been expecting war with the United States within “months” – not years.

As if to confirm this information, China is planning for mass conscriptions (https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2021/07/07/china-Chinese-conscription-draft-regulation-wartime/1131625663551/) and for the return of demobilized veterans to active duty. As if to blame the behind-hand United States for all these Russian and Chinese war preparations, Russian news sources are attempting to blame America: See, especially, “US Actively Prepares for War with Russia” | New Eastern Outlook (journal-neo.org) (https://journal-neo.org/2021/05/31/us-actively-prepares-for-war-with-russia/).

For those who have been paying close attention, none of this is news. China and Russia were making small telltale war preparations twenty-two years ago. Almost nobody noticed. A thoughtful observer might have understood (back then) the intent behind China’s longstanding stockpiling of gold, or Russia’s extensive underground Urals construction program during the 1990s, or China’s growing interest in places like Panama, the Strait of Malacca and the Cape of Good Hope.

Strategy is not a difficult subject if you are willing to dispense with liberal illusions (i.e., belief in the “end of history”) or conservative illusions (“Reagan won the Cold War”). Early indications of Russia’s long-planned military buildup were seen in the testing of new prototype weapons during the Second Chechen War. But who bothered to notice?

(...the article continues (https://jrnyquist.blog/2021/07/09/political-insanity-a-diagnosis))


I'm truly out of words. The country that has destroyed 180+ countries in the last 70 or so years, saying that other countries that have not done that, are dangerous and planning wars that never happen, while they still continue to destroy and bring war every place they can, like a rabid animal in total blood lust

"Assumptions.. are the mother of all f*ck ups", But we don't need to assume evilness from the US government, they took good care to make it public official policy decades ago. And to blame everything on everyone else, like a child

We also don't need to say "history will prove it", because it has already done it. Unlike these claims based on nothing but a "unknown source"

They using an "Ukrainian" source? I did nazi that coming

[onawah]

Has Nyquist said anything about China possibly being the target of DEWs or weather engineering (weaponization) from the US?
If the 3 Gorges Dam goes, which doesn't seem unlikely, it's going to put a halt to a lot of the CCP's plans, to say the least...
It would affect the rest of the world as well since so much manufacturing of products which are distributed worldwide is done in the regions which will be hit the hardest.


A very long and VERY interesting new article from J.R Nyquist, published yesterday. Way too long to copy it all here, but recommended:

[Mashika]

I wish there was more criteria exercised by people who write that

- "Let's talk about a potential, but undefined and possibly never coming war"
+ Wait not, let's talk about the actual millions and millions dying through US and NATO occupations all around the world, that's actually happening right now as we speak!
- Nah, that's boring, who cares, i want to talk about a potential war because that won't get me cancelled and people like it the most! We don't want to hear about our own wars, it brings money home!

[Andre]

IMO, Russia has now been brought in from the cold, as evidenced by this well researched thread here https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114565-WEF-planning-cyber-attack-on-financial-system&goto=newpost that reveals Russia is one of the leaders in organising the WEF's latest war game (cyber polgyon). Russia is also completely onboard with the WEF and it's COVID scamdemic. Putin is now towing the line while China believes it's time they ruled the world and that the USA's time has ended. AT the same time, China was deeply involved in launching the scamdemic. Remember who modelled the first lockdown? And remember all the phoney deaths on the street from covid? So, we've got Russia and China in economic partnership through BRICS and distancing themselves from the West in thar regard, yet both Russia and China are towing the line with regards the WEF's great reset. It's hard to get your head around which alliance is which these days.

[Bill Ryan]

Has Nyquist said anything about China possibly being the target of DEWs or weather engineering (weaponization) from the US?
If the 3 Gorges Dam goes, which doesn't seem unlikely, it's going to put a halt to a lot of the CCP's plans, to say the least...
It would affect the rest of the world as well since so much manufacturing of products which are distributed worldwide is done in the regions which will be hit the hardest.

No, he's never mentioned that. One could view it the other way, though — that if there were weather wars targeted at China's crops (and the potential failure of the dam), that might motivate China far more to do something drastic, like invade another large country.

[onawah]

Exactly! :nod:


Has Nyquist said anything about China possibly being the target of DEWs or weather engineering (weaponization) from the US?
If the 3 Gorges Dam goes, which doesn't seem unlikely, it's going to put a halt to a lot of the CCP's plans, to say the least...
It would affect the rest of the world as well since so much manufacturing of products which are distributed worldwide is done in the regions which will be hit the hardest.

No, he's never mentioned that. One could view it the other way, though — that if there were weather wars targeted at China's crops (and the potential failure of the dam), that might motivate China far more to do something drastic, like invade another large country.

[onawah]

The World's Biggest Dam: Could it Start a War Between China & India - TLDR News
218,038 views
Jul 17, 2021
6.4K
293
TLDR News Global
170K subscribers

KCINfs_Q7OA

(This looks like another construction disaster in the making from the ever-ambitious CCP.)

[onawah]

Lying flat - China's Silent Revolution
408,779 viewsJun 26, 2021
27K
serpentza
847K subscribers

"The Chinese government is Terrified of this silent Apathetic Revolution"
uWl7njLlXLU

[Agape]

Lying flat - China's Silent Revolution
408,779 viewsJun 26, 2021
27K
serpentza
847K subscribers

"The Chinese government is Terrified of this silent Apathetic Revolution"
uWl7njLlXLU

Very funny but in extreme situations possibly the only way to go 😅

It’s how my mother “defeated the communists”, opting herself out of service. The Wu Way that can prevent disasters .

The way of finding Tao in Maggi noodles.


Do they teach Mandarin in sleep ?


🌸

[Agape]

Tibet promotes organ donation, two hospitals get access to national platform (https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1229932.shtml)

That’s among else of course but very few people with the education level available in rural areas of Chinese Tibet ( long after their education was modernized, secularized and improved) know what precisely does it all mean and imply.

If you read the article carefully you will find for yourself, China is again banking on the Buddhist Tibet as cheap organ harvesting bank since organ donations go along “loving kindness and compassion”, traditional Buddhist values.
Could be well Muslim or Christian of course, more naive are those prospective donors the better.

So to be wrong again , so “obsolete” in human terms I am that I reject the pig hybridization program of sewing people together.
Of course there are others like me but most today’s Tibetans look upon the modernity as god , even here in Dharamsala.
If the Mayo Clinic pooed on it, it’s definitely god :)



🕊

[norman]

I unashamedly quote myself, twice . . . .


Leaving ideology right out of it, communism is monolithic capitalism. Debt based central banking is monolithic capitalism.

Are they in a winner/loser conflict, or are they on the brink of a long planned full merger ?

Laurence Fink
https://theceopublication.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/BN-GS026_wolfe_FR_20150129150657.jpg

BlackRock is owned By Vanguard. Vanguard is opaque so our highest visible puppet is Laurence Douglas Fink, CEO of BlackRock. It's pretty similar to Stalin being the highest visible puppet, in his time.

[from Wikipedia - In the context of the theory of Leninist revolutionary struggle, vanguardism involves a strategy whereby the most class-conscious and politically "advanced" sections of the proletariat or working class, described as the revolutionary vanguard, form organizations in order to draw larger sections of the working class towards revolutionary politics and serve as manifestations of proletarian political power opposed to the bourgeois ]




. . . . if they are smart, they won't call it communism when they complete their fully automated technocracy that converts 'democratic' control by the most brainwashed mass to control by the most effectively brainwashing algorithm running checkbox choices as a substitute for identity politically suicided sovereign individual beings.

They might even get away with calling it a corporate mission statement once the corporate social score system has removed all trace of decent.

It's completely nuts, to think of communism and corporate capitalism as opposites. They are exactly the same thing painted up in different livery. Early experimental communism lacked the complete and overt hookup to directly targeted lines of credit extended down from the 'upper floor' of the fake money banking sorcery. They've come a long way now though. It's all in place. They must have been absolutely gutted when Orange Man said "enough is enough". Especially when it fully sunk in that their useful idiots really were idiots.