What's wrong with me? I've shunned all fear porn about the killer virus

[DaveToo]

Am I crazy?
Am I suicidal?

Since the very beginning of the pandemic I have shunned all TV and MSM fear porn about the killer virus.

I have three university degrees, so someone can't claim I am uneducated.

Why do I have no fear when I am out and about in the public?
Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?
Why do I ignore markers on the floor for social distancing and directions to follow in store aisles?
Why do I not cower and keep a distance as others approach me when I walk?

What's wrong with me?
Does anyone know?

[AutumnW]

Probably neither. You are simply doing a threat assessment based on what you are seeing and experiencing in your immediate environment.

[Bill Ryan]

Am I crazy?
Am I suicidal?

Since the very beginning of the pandemic I have shunned all TV and MSM fear porn about the killer virus.

I have three university degrees, so someone can't claim I am uneducated.

Why do I have no fear when I am out and about in the public?
Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?
Why do I ignore markers on the floor for social distancing and directions to follow in store aisles?
Why do I not cower and keep a distance as others approach me when I walk?

What's wrong with me?
Does anyone know?You're a contrarian (I suspect). Reverse psychology might work better on you! :)

[DaveToo]

Am I crazy?
Am I suicidal?

Since the very beginning of the pandemic I have shunned all TV and MSM fear porn about the killer virus.

I have three university degrees, so someone can't claim I am uneducated.

Why do I have no fear when I am out and about in the public?
Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?
Why do I ignore markers on the floor for social distancing and directions to follow in store aisles?
Why do I not cower and keep a distance as others approach me when I walk?

What's wrong with me?
Does anyone know?You're a contrarian (I suspect). Reverse psychology might work better on you! :)

I wouldn't say I am a contrarian in all matters. I'd rather say I am a non-conformist.
Nah, reverse psychology wouldn't work on me as I would be able to see right through it. :)

[greybeard]

Am I crazy?
Am I suicidal?

Since the very beginning of the pandemic I have shunned all TV and MSM fear porn about the killer virus.

I have three university degrees, so someone can't claim I am uneducated.

Why do I have no fear when I am out and about in the public?
Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?
Why do I ignore markers on the floor for social distancing and directions to follow in store aisles?
Why do I not cower and keep a distance as others approach me when I walk?

What's wrong with me?
Does anyone know?

Well apart from the degrees we could be twins --
I left school without even an o level (o probably means ordinary)
I did the Mensa test and got 143 -- so thats just borderline for joining.

Mind you in my book common sense with a bit of intellectual reasoning is a good thing.
Wish there was more people like you Dave Too.
Chris

[DaveToo]

Probably neither. You are simply doing a threat assessment based on what you are seeing and experiencing in your immediate environment.

But how would you explain my non-hesitancy to fly on a plane now, if it weren't for the damn face mask/temperature check hassles?
Take away all that b.s. and I would jump on an airplane next week.

How do you explain that?
Surely an airplane would be the ultimate threat now?

[Matthew]

I'm suddenly guessing at possible oxytocin deficiency. Men are especially vulnerable as I understand it

[greybeard]

I love flying too. -- take off and landing exile rating.
There seem to be an automatic safety function though --Im not going to stand on the edge of a high place.
Im not for confrontation either --seems pointless.

Chris

[pueblo]

I'm suddenly guessing at possible oxytocin deficiency. Men are especially vulnerable as I understand it

Wouldn't that mean increased cortisol levels? Doesn't sound like OP is stressed/anxious, quite the opposite.

Oxytocin is nicknamed the 'trust hormone', depletion leading to a lack of trust of others/society etc etc. If anything OP is producing too much Oxytocin!

[TomKat]

Maybe this pandemic will go down in history as the invisible pandemic. I don't know of anybody who got covid. Seems if it were real it would be more visible, eh?

[Matthew]

I'm suddenly guessing at possible oxytocin deficiency. Men are especially vulnerable as I understand it

Wouldn't that mean increased cortisol levels? Doesn't sound like OP is stressed/anxious, quite the opposite.

Oxytocin is nicknamed the 'trust hormone', depletion leading to a lack of trust of others/society etc etc. If anything OP is producing too much Oxytocin!

Oh I see, well, thanks for pointing that correction out. I made a jump from trust to lack of :D

[Bill Ryan]

Maybe this pandemic will go down in history as the invisible pandemic. I don't know of anybody who got covid. Seems if it were real it would be more visible, eh?A number of Avalon members reported having had it (or were as sure as they could be that they had, or had it in their close family or friends). That includes Hervé, Elainie, Tam, thepainterdoug, norman, Sarah Rainsong, Frank V, Lilybee8, sunwings, WhiteFeather, Ayt, Delight, Patient, graciousb, TargeT, Gracy May, and I think a few others.


Avalon members who may have Covid-19 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110260-Avalon-members-who-may-have-Covid-19)

And — start in at 4:20 in Chris Martenson's most recent video, below. A recorded video interview follows, with the woman's husband.

This is probably exceptional (we hope!), but it's very real.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhyEBIpaIaM

[Sue (Ayt)]

I think nothing is wrong with you. You just walk in faith knowing you are safe!
:flower:

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 50

Between birth and death,
Three in ten are following life,
Three in ten are following death,
And men just passing from birth to death also number three in ten.
Why is this so?
Because they live their lives on the gross level.

He who knows how to live can walk abroad
Without fear of rhinoceros or tiger.
He will not be wounded in battle.
For in him rhinoceroses can find no place to thrust their horn,
Tigers can find no place to use their claws,
And weapons no place to pierce.
Why is this so? Because he has no place for death to enter.

[greybeard]

The thing is there no definitive test for the virus as yet.
I you have had the flu jab or the common cold -- you will test positive.
Thats a fact.

So who is to say exactly what they suffered from --and some died from?

See here,
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-coronavirus-act-2020/

Letter to PM Demanding Proof of Existence of 'Covid-19'!

The push-back movement against Government tyranny continues!

Now our friends at StandUpX - Science Committee have written to the PM demanding proof of the existence of so-called 'covid-19'. This is to be by way of peer reviewed evidence of isolation and purification of the 'virus'. This is also to be produced with peer reviewed proof that all of the Koch Postulates have been applied to the 'virus'.

As this so-called 'covid-19' 'virus' is now controlling and dominating our lives, it is only reasonable to be given proof of it and if this proof is not given their ludicrous measures of control and vaccination plans should STOP NOW!

The Government have been given to the 22nd of July to provide proof, of course they will not be able to as 'covid-19' does not exist, but it will be interesting to see what they say in their reply. See the letter here:

https://www.kevinpcorbett.com/coronahysteria/viral-challenge-to-boris-johnson.html

As you can see the signatories of the letter are Dr Kevin Corbett, Piers Corbyn, David Crowe, Dr Andrew Kaufman, Dr David Rasnick and Professor Roger Watson. Many more health professionals also wanted to sign the letter but were sadly unable to for fear of the implications to their careers of going against the Government narrative. Dr Kevin Corbett has written some excellent papers on all of this insanity, see:

https://www.kevinpcorbett.com/coronahysteria/index.html

Thank you to Simon Dolan and his team for all their hard work for us, please keep going. We need to fight this Government of Occupation over their lies and fraud at every opportunity!

[AutumnW]

Probably neither. You are simply doing a threat assessment based on what you are seeing and experiencing in your immediate environment.

But how would you explain my non-hesitancy to fly on a plane now, if it weren't for the damn face mask/temperature check hassles?
Take away all that b.s. and I would jump on an airplane next week.

How do you explain that?
Surely an airplane would be the ultimate threat now?

If you aren't seeing people sick and dying, in person, the overarching framework you are using is one derived from your day to day personal experience, imho. That includes frying in a prane. Oh, woops, I am writing with an accent.:HELP!:

[AutumnW]

I'm suddenly guessing at possible oxytocin deficiency. Men are especially vulnerable as I understand it

Wouldn't that mean increased cortisol levels? Doesn't sound like OP is stressed/anxious, quite the opposite.

Oxytocin is nicknamed the 'trust hormone', depletion leading to a lack of trust of others/society etc etc. If anything OP is producing too much Oxytocin!

Oh I see, well, thanks for pointing that correction out. I made a jump from trust to lack of :D

A lack of oxytocin is more correlated with anti-social personality, or reduced ability to bond or completely impaired bonding ability. Fear and high cortisol levels, probably more related to people who have a fear of losing others, losing close bonds.

Those who don't mask up strike me as being anti-social, in this respect. It is to PROTECT other people as we have to assume we are all asymptomatic, at this point anyway.:waving:

So, Dave, has anybody ever accused you of being anti-social?

[DaveToo]

Probably neither. You are simply doing a threat assessment based on what you are seeing and experiencing in your immediate environment.

But how would you explain my non-hesitancy to fly on a plane now, if it weren't for the damn face mask/temperature check hassles?
Take away all that b.s. and I would jump on an airplane next week.

How do you explain that?
Surely an airplane would be the ultimate threat now?

If you aren't seeing people sick and dying, in person, the overarching framework you are using is one derived from your day to day personal experience, imho. That includes frying in a prane. Oh, woops, I am writing with an accent.:HELP!:

If you were to come up with a truly reasonable explanation I might agree with you.
The majority of the fearful populace have not seen the 'sick and dying'.
But they are fearful and I am not.

¤=[Post Update]=¤





I'm suddenly guessing at possible oxytocin deficiency. Men are especially vulnerable as I understand it

Wouldn't that mean increased cortisol levels? Doesn't sound like OP is stressed/anxious, quite the opposite.

Oxytocin is nicknamed the 'trust hormone', depletion leading to a lack of trust of others/society etc etc. If anything OP is producing too much Oxytocin!

Oh I see, well, thanks for pointing that correction out. I made a jump from trust to lack of :D

A lack of oxytocin is more correlated with anti-social personality, or reduced ability to bond or completely impaired bonding ability. Fear and high cortisol levels, probably more related to people who have a fear of losing others, losing close bonds.

Those who don't mask up strike me as being anti-social, in this respect. It is to PROTECT other people as we have to assume we are all asymptomatic, at this point anyway.:waving:

So, Dave, has anybody ever accused you of being anti-social?

Not that I'm aware of. :)

[DaveToo]

So, Dave, has anybody ever accused you of being anti-social?


The biggest problem I see with the world today is most people being anti-social.

I think we should be more pro-social!

We need more socializing not social distancing!

Maybe there is something wrong with me?

[Metaphor]

Nothing is wrong with you DaveToo, absolutely nothing. This is how its like being normal in a world gone mad. I experience the same as you.

[thepainterdoug]

Dave too. you are too sane

[Delight]

Maybe this pandemic will go down in history as the invisible pandemic. I don't know of anybody who got covid. Seems if it were real it would be more visible, eh?A number of Avalon members reported having had it (or were as sure as they could be that they had, or had it in their close family or friends). That includes Hervé, Elainie, Tam, thepainterdoug, norman, Sarah Rainsong, Frank V, Lilybee8, sunwings, WhiteFeather, Ayt, Delight, Patient, graciousb, TargeT, Gracy May, and I think a few others.


Avalon members who may have Covid-19 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110260-Avalon-members-who-may-have-Covid-19)

And — start in at 4:20 in Chris Martenson's most recent video, below. A recorded video interview follows, with the woman's husband.

This is probably exceptional (we hope!), but it's very real.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhyEBIpaIaM

I am not sure I had the "virus" and I am going to avoid testing. I stopped listening to all of the reports (Martenson included).

This year a new form of psyop has come to my attention: "Alice in Wonderland" torture. We are driven mad when we as cogitating human beings encounter an avalanche of conflicting, nonsensical, contradicting info and demands.

This has to be one of the most deviously dangerous mental tortures ever deployed...

[greybeard]

So, Dave, has anybody ever accused you of being anti-social?


The biggest problem I see with the world today is most people being anti-social.

I think we should be more pro-social!

We need more socializing not social distancing!

Maybe there is something wrong with me?

Agree Dave.
Nothing wrong with you
The seeming difference may be the lack of fear of dying.
Most fear stems from that.
If you remove that main fear then --catching a virus --dying or not catching it and dying of something else is not a concern -- an acceptance of the inevitable -- we all die sometime.

Lets face the facts -- the media has hyped this beyond belief -- the majority of death were of people over the age of 75 or with a life threatening illness, an underlying cause --died with the virus that has no valid test for.
Most had very mild symptoms-- lasted about 14 days
So the world has gone into lockdown over a fairly normal seasonal event.

People unfortunately believe the non stop media fear propaganda.
Belief is very powerful.
The Aborigines believed if the bone was pointed at them they would die - not true but they did die.
How many have become ill out of fear?
Chris

[pueblo]

Agree with Greybeard's post above 100%....once you remove the fear of death there is 'something wrong with you' in the eyes of the world.

[Feritciva]

i just gave a seminar to a class of 21 people last week. yes we were in a hotel seminar room & no, none of us had any mask. some of my health profesional colleagues called this as "ignorance" , i just said "please keep your cult-beliefs away from me, thanks".

in one point i asked how many in this class know a person who had covid, relatives, friends, neighbours etc? One person raised his hand, his neighboor had covid diagnosis. then i asked ok, how many of you lost a relative, friend or someone from the family to cancer? All 22 of us - myself included - raised hands.

so if rejecting & questioning this cultish cognitive dissonance, this hypocrisy, this insincerity that took over all the world in less than 3 months is being wrong - then i am happy to be labeled as "wrong".

[greybeard]

I have posted on the thread regarding Autism several times
The number of male children getting this in the USA alone is epidemic proportion -- I see no media recognition of the severity of this.
I wont quote the figures for this as they come from videos therefore I cant find a print out.

This is for UK
Key Facts

One in 59 children in the UK

https://uk.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=ddc&hsimp=yhs-linuxmint&type=__alt__ddc_linuxmint_com&p=current+figires+for+autism

So all the media focus is on the virus --- Why?
Slowly its coming round to talk about the effects of lockdown on health and job loss.
Those without fear are fairly rare.
Chris

[Ewan]

In a mad world the sane are bound to question their sanity.

[Chris Gilbert]

Maybe this pandemic will go down in history as the invisible pandemic. I don't know of anybody who got covid. Seems if it were real it would be more visible, eh?A number of Avalon members reported having had it (or were as sure as they could be that they had, or had it in their close family or friends). That includes Hervé, Elainie, Tam, thepainterdoug, norman, Sarah Rainsong, Frank V, Lilybee8, sunwings, WhiteFeather, Ayt, Delight, Patient, graciousb, TargeT, Gracy May, and I think a few others.


Also along with those who have had it, some like me have interacted with covid patients up close. At my hospital job in Michigan, back during the months of April-May when we had the highest number of patients listed as being confirmed cases, I actually had to help several security guards stack bodies on top of each other in the hospital morgue. It was OVERFLOWING. It's been the first time I've had to do that in nearly two decades. I looked up our records to see if there was a net increase in deaths at the hospital, or if the funeral homes just weren't picking up bodies due to the lockdown. I found that the number of bodies taken to the morgue on a given month was around 30-50, while in April/May it was 100+.

There's certainly areas where the mainstream narrative can be criticized, and I do believe this crisis is being seized on as a means to enact covert elite plans. However, the viewpoint that gets bandied about on here and elsewhere that the virus is fake or not a big deal is just plain nonsense in my experience. I also find the anti-mask reaction to being required to wear a mask in a store for 20 minutes rather silly (I have to wear them for 8-16 hours straight at work, and I have yet to die from CO2 poisoning).

[Bill Ryan]

However, the viewpoint that gets bandied about on here and elsewhere that the virus is fake or not a big deal is just plain nonsense in my experience.Yes, it is.

[Satori]

However, the viewpoint that gets bandied about on here and elsewhere that the virus is fake or not a big deal is just plain nonsense in my experience.Yes, it is.

I’m not in the camp that thinks SARS Covid 2 is fake, but in my opinion the so-called disease Covid 19 is “not a big deal” and many fake claims are being made about it.

Masks are not effective or necessary outside a medical setting, such as a hospital. My 90 year old mother has not contracted Covid 19 disease and she does not wear a mask, nor do we wear one around her. In my opinion, at least in the state of New Mexico, masks are a political tool, not a health-based and medically necessary measure.

The current governor of New Mexico spent 3 or 4 terms in Congress before she was sent back here a few years ago to run for governor. Thus, she knew the likes of people like Pelosi while in Congress. I have no doubt whatsoever that she has been assured a position in the Democrat administration if the anti-constitutional, criminal rats can wrestle, steal or take the Whitehouse from the Republican Party and get Trump out.

We are being forced in New Mexico by draconian, illegal and anti-constitutional executive orders and administrative regulations to wear masks. I’d say about half the people do. I do not, except when I have no choice in my profession. So far I’ve only had to do that once, for a short time. I have to set aside my personal convictions in favor of my clients’ interests. But, I believe our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham is acting from political motivations, not health care motivations. I do not stand alone in this conviction. (If you visit NM you must now quarantine yourself for 14 days. Welcome to NM.)

If things really were as they would have us believe, there would be bodies everywhere and we’d all be bringing out our dead.

[greybeard]

However, the viewpoint that gets bandied about on here and elsewhere that the virus is fake or not a big deal is just plain nonsense in my experience.Yes, it is.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/dr-anthony-fauci-says-hasnt-145943235.html

"Asked in a Monday interview with "Fox and Friends" about Trump's claim that 99% of coronavirus cases were "harmless," White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said, "When you start to look at the stats and all the numbers that we have, the amount of testing that we have, the vast majority of people are safe from this."

"Outside of comorbidities" such as diabetes or hypertension, he added, the "risks are extremely low and the president’s right with that, and the facts and the statistics back us up there."

A large proportion of the American population has comorbidities that put them at a higher risk for severe coronavirus cases. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says more than 100 million Americans live with diabetes or prediabetes, and nearly half of Americans have high blood pressure. The prevalence of such conditions is higher in racial minority groups, which have been disproportionately affected by the coronavirus."


In this video the Dr states that he has been taken to task (reported to authorities) that this is no worse that the seasonal flu and has given comparison to previous years deaths, perhaps more info in other videos by him.
The number of Drs who have had u tube videos deleted because they said similar gives a big clue.

The Flu is not of no consequence large numbers of people die from it, particularly those with health issues.
Chris

Please disregard the last parts of this video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiecPHpBTcI

[TomKat]

However, the viewpoint that gets bandied about on here and elsewhere that the virus is fake or not a big deal is just plain nonsense in my experience.Yes, it is.

Even if you're right, it's certainly not a pandemic. I know of nobody who died from it. Nobody I know knows of anybody who died from it. Where are the bodies except on TV?

[Bill Ryan]

However, the viewpoint that gets bandied about on here and elsewhere that the virus is fake or not a big deal is just plain nonsense in my experience.Yes, it is.

Even if you're right, it's certainly not a pandemic. I know of nobody who died from it. Nobody I know knows of anybody who died from it. Where are the bodies except on TV?More of a problem may be the increasing evidence that a significant number of those who contract it (and are recorded as "recovered") then have lasting damage.

[thepainterdoug]

As everyone, I have been thru every thought on feeling this thing C19. But it just doesn't sit right with me. My intuition tells me its a con, with the cover of some truth, to carry the necessary fear.
If we started testing for how many 4 leaf clovers there are in a field per square yard, we may all realize there are thousands more than we thought.

But in my world , I don't know anyone directly that has died from this. Don't know a friend or any of their familes and surrounding world . It's always a friend of a friend etc . And with that, we dont really know what it was.

And my biggest observation is, with the MSMedia always seeking any story of people of notoriety, , how come i have not heard one celebrity, sports figure, writer, dancer, musician composer, politician , journalist , person of interest that has died of this directly . Not car accident, yearly influenza, infection in the hospital with C19. Just C 19

And of course, they have pooled all of this under the one C 19 heading. i have an agency friend who told me this years influenza is a tough one. so the usual 100 thou and more will die from it. That leaves yearly pnemonia and C 19 to make up the rest. Run the numbers, it just doesn't work . To shut the world down?? "March in step", now that makes sense.

[TomKat]

However, the viewpoint that gets bandied about on here and elsewhere that the virus is fake or not a big deal is just plain nonsense in my experience.Yes, it is.

Even if you're right, it's certainly not a pandemic. I know of nobody who died from it. Nobody I know knows of anybody who died from it. Where are the bodies except on TV?More of a problem may be the increasing evidence that a significant number of those who contract it (and are recorded as "recovered") then have lasting damage.

You know this first-hand or from media reports?
Maybe it's all a big drill. If they can shut down the world with a fake pandemic, they can send the world to war against a fake alien invasion. Now we know what that will look like, don't we? A few choice effects on video from the military, morgues ELSEWHERE filling up, stories of people who didn't believe it but wish they had listened...

[TomKat]

As everyone, I have been thru every thought on feeling this thing C19. But it just doesn't sit right with me. My intuition tells me its a con, with the cover of some truth, to carry the necessary fear.
If we started testing for how many 4 leaf clovers there are in a field per square yard, we may all realize there are thousands more than we thought.

But in my world , I don't know anyone directly that has died from this. Don't know a friend or any of their familes and surrounding world . It's always a friend of a friend etc . And with that, we dont really know what it was.

And my biggest observation is, with the MSMedia always seeking any story of people of notoriety, , how come i have not heard one celebrity, sports figure, writer, dancer, musician composer, politician , journalist , person of interest that has died of this directly . Not car accident, yearly influenza, infection in the hospital with C19. Just C 19

And of course, they have pooled all of this under the one C 19 heading. i have an agency friend who told me this years influenza is a tough one. so the usual 100 thou and more will die from it. That leaves yearly pnemonia and C 19 to make up the rest. Run the numbers, it just doesn't work . To shut the world down?? "March in step", now that makes sense.

It's just a drill. It's all happening elsewhere and we can't travel to check it out for ourselves without a 2-week quarantine. But you can go to your local hospital and see if the emergency room is full. And if it's not, ignore the reports from elsewhere, because it's not part of your reality.

[greybeard]

I cant remember date or find the link but it was officially decided in UK it is not a pandemic --itno longer fulfils the requirements for that statement
There are after effects of seasonal flu.
There would seem to be a case for the involvement of 5G, It would seem that the death rate is higher in areas where 5G is established.
Think David Ike said as much.

There is no valid test for this virus, so how can it be claimed that there are lasting after effects -- when identification of the root cause can not specifically be attributed to Corona?

The flu or whatever it is ---the cure is worse than the disease-- people self harming committing suicide.
Millions jobless and how can you afford a mortgage taken out in good faith.
Oh yes Covad is very serious but not because of the illness but because of the Draconian measures taken by world Governments -- all dancing to the same tune -- apart from a few --who took minor measures and have their economy intact. No measurable difference in mortality rate.

So many genuine information u tube videos taken down WHY?

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

However, the viewpoint that gets bandied about on here and elsewhere that the virus is fake or not a big deal is just plain nonsense in my experience.Yes, it is.

Even if you're right, it's certainly not a pandemic. I know of nobody who died from it. Nobody I know knows of anybody who died from it. Where are the bodies except on TV?More of a problem may be the increasing evidence that a significant number of those who contract it (and are recorded as "recovered") then have lasting damage.

You know this first-hand or from media reports?
Neither. (I pay no attention to the mainstream media.)

I follow Chris Martenson closely. His video channel is here (https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos). I've watched every one of his 150 videos since the third week of January. When it comes to the science, and the statistics, and all the various reports from reliable medical sources, I'd take his research over that of everyone else combined.

Martenson is highly critical of the media, the WHO, the Fed, and the HCQ studies that have been designed to fail. He's also personally certain the virus has been engineered (and he explains why, in great detail). He's one of the brightest people on YouTube.

But it's a real virus, and can be serious for some people — not necessarily just for those with comorbidities. There's a lot that's still not known. Some people really do have lasting serious effects, and it's not yet fully understood why, at all.

But I'm not going to argue any points here. No Covid fights... it's not worth it. :) I'm just personally clear about this thing, which I'm comfortable about. I don't have the time or the energy to dig up all the references. I strongly suspect that almost all regular Covid posters on Avalon have already made up their minds. We're in the territory of belief systems now.

HOWEVER — it's being used as a control and manipulation vehicle, 100% for sure. I stated that months ago, and drew attention to the 2010 Rockefeller Foundation document back in February. All that's a totally different discussion from the reality and function of the virus itself.

[greybeard]

The Geneva-based WHO declared the 2009 H1N1 swine flu outbreak a pandemic, which turned out to be mild, leading to some criticism after pharmaceutical companies rushed development of vaccines and drugs.

WHO declared the novel coronavirus that emerged in Wuhan, China, in December a public health emergency of International concern, known as a PHEIC, on Jan. 30. The designation, which remains in place, was aimed at helping countries with weaker health systems shore up their defences, especially in Africa.

Im inclined to believe established experts like the Irish professor who's name I cant remember.

What WHO says seems to change moment by moment depending on the spokes' person.
So Its not a pandemic -- by their definition.

Ferguson who's words was taken -- possibly started the fear mongering if greatly inflated expectation.
He was responsible for similar response to the Swine flu.
Millions of animal slaughtered farmers ruined, for no good reason -- yet here we are again down to his failed modelling.

Chris

[greybeard]

As Covid-19 persists around the world, death is not the only outcome to fear
Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz
The Guardian

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-persists-around-world-173021764.html

There are a lot of unknowns about Covid-19. This makes sense, because despite six months of the most amazing scientific effort of our lifetimes, the coronavirus is a novel disease which means that we are constantly finding out new things about it. Even now, the debate about the most likely method of spread of the disease rages on, in part because the idea of masks has in many places become somehow a political decision rather than a scientific one.

Sometimes 2020 feels like living in the Bad Place (but with less frozen yoghurt).

But the worry about unknowns doesn’t end at whether you should be sporting pandemic chic. One claim that has been flying around the airwaves, as we move from the early stages of Covid-19 to the endless ennui of an ongoing outbreak, is the idea that, since only a small proportion of people die from the disease, the rest of us should stop worrying about it and carry on. The idea is pervasive, and has been repeated worldwide – since only 1% of people are going to be killed by the coronavirus, the 99% of us who aren’t going to die will be totally fine.

Related: The second wave: 'Thinking this would end was a useful crutch – now it's been kicked from under us' | Josephine Tovey

This is, unfortunately, completely off the mark.

Firstly, let’s look at the facts. A colleague and I have looked into the infection-fatality rate of Covid-19, using data from dozens of studies, and our conclusion is that about 0.7% of people who catch the disease will die. So broadly speaking, saying that only 1% of people who get the disease will die isn’t entirely wrong.

But there’s a problem. Dying isn’t the only issue that a disease can cause. Measles kills about 0.2% of people who catch it, but it leaves some people deaf, others with brain damage, and may cause permanent immune system damage to boot. Polio, the disease that causes terrifying paralysis, is entirely asymptomatic in upwards of 70% of people who catch it.

Similarly, the impact of Covid-19 can’t be boiled down to a single number. For some, it causes death. For others, it causes lengthy ICU stays, which are themselves dangerous. Long-term mechanical ventilation, while hailed as the saviour of humanity early in this crisis, is associated with a host of serious health problems such as bacterial infections, ulcers and more. Even for those not admitted to ICU, there are worrying trends emerging indicating the potential for long-term organ damage such as kidney injury, or severe psychiatric issues.

Related: Why we might not get a coronavirus vaccine

Worse still, there are increasingly reports that these impacts are not wholly confined to people with severe infections. Some patients with mild symptoms are saying that they have had symptoms for weeks or months, a far cry from our usual ideas of “mild” disease. There is some evidence that symptoms like fatigue, which can be very long-lasting, are hitting people who barely had any issue earlier on in their affliction.

All in all, it’s not a pretty picture. Death may be the most easily identifiable outcome of coronavirus infection, but it’s certainly not the only one.

Which brings us back to that 99% figure. As the threat of a second wave looms, people are beginning to get tired of the ongoing government action. “Wouldn’t it be easier”, they say “to just let the disease roll through the population? It’s only going to kill 1% anyway”.

Perhaps, although it’s worth noting that in Australia and the UK a death rate of 1% would imply hundreds of thousands of deaths before the virus burned itself out. Moreover, those who are hospitalised – a significant proportion of Covid-19 patients – will certainly suffer. And even those with more mild disease may not be exempt from long-term harm. While government restrictions are starting to feel onerous, the fact is that we simply do not know enough about this disease to be sure that even the lowest risk is acceptable. We’ve got a handle on short-term, acute issues – the things that we see in a hospital – but we’re still only just discovering what the long-term issues that this disease causes might be.

Unfortunately, the damage that Covid-19 causes is almost certainly not confined entirely to the death rate. We may not know for some time exactly what else it causes, but even now we have enough evidence to know that there are other problems out there. Letting everyone get infected is a strategy that, even ignoring the enormous death toll, could leave us much worse off as a society.

I wish I could end with an uplifting message, but really all there’s left to say is simple: we’re in this for the long haul. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it seems like that’s what 2020 is about for epidemiologists.


"Just to show that I look at all sides of the picture"

However, this fits with the ongoing fear narrative.

Chris

[greybeard]

For me it is very simple.
Whatever this virus
Is lockdown justified?
Thats it.
Chris

[Delight]

HOWEVER — it's being used as a control and manipulation vehicle, 100% for sure.

kbz75QjJl-U

[DaveToo]

And of course, they have pooled all of this under the one C 19 heading. i have an agency friend who told me this years influenza is a tough one. so the usual 100 thou and more will die from it. That leaves yearly pnemonia and C 19 to make up the rest. Run the numbers, it just doesn't work . To shut the world down?? "March in step", now that makes sense.




Neither. (I pay no attention to the mainstream media.)

I follow Chris Martenson closely. His video channel is here (https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos). I've watched every one of his 150 videos since the third week of January. When it comes to the science, and the statistics, and all the various reports from reliable medical sources, I'd take his research over that of everyone else combined.

It's never wise to put all your eggs in one basket. :)



But it's a real virus, and can be serious for some people — not necessarily just for those with comorbidities. .


Because so many 'Covid' deaths have been comorbidities, they have impinged on many other death statistics.
The simple way to take care of that problem is to look at total deaths.

I have done that for the U.S. I have looked at the total deaths in the U.S. for the past five years.

If Covid was really a big deal in the U.S., really a killer virus, you would expect it to have wiped out a huge chunk of the population.
This year we are seeing only a 5.5% increase in the number of deaths in the U.S. !!!

That is truly remarkable. Millions haven't died. There aren't 10 or 20 times as many deaths this year compared to previous years.
There aren't even twice as many deaths this year. There aren't even 50% more deaths than previous years.
Nor even 25% or 10% more deaths this year than previous years!

TB and pneumonia on the other hand, both pandemic infectious diseases that occur each and every year, kill far more people than Covid has. But they aren't NEW diseases so they aren't sexy, media attention-grabbing, fear inducing pandemics.

There are big agendas at play here. Make no mistake about it. And always remember that the MSM are simply the mouthpieces of those with the agendas.

[greybeard]

There is some thing wrong with you if you believe this fear porn
And there is a push for the need to take the next flu shot.
Chris

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-warning-italy-effects-covid-19-could-worse-023000887.html

Coronavirus warning from Italy: Effects of COVID-19 could be worse than first thought
Stuart Ramsay, chief correspondent
Sky News

The long-term effects of COVID-19, even on people who suffered a mild infection, could be far worse than was originally anticipated, according to researchers and doctors in northern Italy.

Psychosis, insomnia, kidney disease, spinal infections, strokes, chronic tiredness and mobility issues are being identified in former coronavirus patients in Lombardy, the worst-affected region in the country.

The doctors warn that some victims may never recover from the illness and that all age groups are vulnerable.

The virus is a systemic infection that affects all the organs of the body, not, as was previously thought, just a respiratory disease, they say.

Some people may find that their ability to properly work, to concentrate, and even to take part in physical activities will be severely impaired.

The physicians warn that people who do not consider themselves in a vulnerable group and aren't concerned at contracting the disease could be putting themselves in danger of life-changing illnesses if they ignore the rules to keep safe.

They stress that the need for social distancing, hand washing, and masks is as important now as it ever was.

The warnings come amid growing concerns in northern Italy that a second wave of the virus could be imminent. Doctors in two of the main hospitals in the region have reported a handful of new cases of severely ill people with respiratory problems.

Dr Roberto Cosentini, head of emergencies at Papa Giovanni XXIII Hospital in Bergamo, oversaw the response to the virus that swept through this alpine province claiming the lives of at least 6,000 people.

He gave Sky News unprecedented access to the hospital's emergency rooms in March when the first shocking effects of the virus were broadcast around the world, changing perceptions of the scale of the problem.

Now he is leading efforts to again send a warning across the globe that COVID-19 is a lethal killer that affects the whole body, and is not going away.

"At first, initially, we thought it was a bad flu, then we thought it was a bad flu with a very bad pneumonia, it was the phase when you came here, but subsequently we discovered that it is a systemic illness with vessel damage in the whole body with renal involvement, cerebral involvement," he told me in the now silent COVID-19 emergency room that was overwhelmed a few months ago.

"So we are seeing other acute manifestations of renal failure that require dialysis; or stroke, and then acute myocardial infarction, so a lot of complications or other manifestations of the virus.

"And also now we see a significant proportion of the population with chronic damage from the virus."

One of the few positives emerging from the pandemic that caused havoc to the health service here was the creation of a unique environment where doctors and experts in different fields found themselves working together for months, effectively learning new skills. That co-operation is helping the understanding of the virus.

Dr Emanuela Catenacci is a neurosurgeon at Cremona Hospital and when we first met her in March she had been co-opted to work on the intensive care wards during the worst of the outbreak.

She is back on neurology, but crucially, whereas in the past she would have treated patients completely independent of other departments, now she can see the link. That link is COVID-19, and it's a multi-organ killer.

"In our hospital now we have a practice with immunologists, who are checking these patients, especially the most severe, those with the most severe illnesses, and they are checking not only lungs, but all the systemic manifestations of COVID pathology," she told me.

"The virus is a systemic infection, some of our apparatus organs have the biggest manifestation, such as lungs as we know, but also brain, skin, and sometimes we have vasculitis, so it's not [just] high respiratory or low respiratory infection, it's not finished [at] that," she said.

The Italian doctors' findings in their patients mirror a recent study carried out at University College London.

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Researchers identified serious neurological complications arising from COVID-19 including delirium, brain inflammation, stroke and nerve damage in 43 people aged 16 to 85.

Some of the patients had experienced no severe breathing problems at all, with the neurological disorder being the first and only sign that they had coronavirus.

An intensive testing and follow up analysis of all survivors has been launched in Bergamo. Teams of doctors examine those who have recovered on a constant basis, trying to track the changing properties of the virus.

Filippo Alcaini, 65, is one of the survivors being tested.

He was intubated in February after becoming severely ill, but recovered. He has been COVID-19-free for four months but he still has problems breathing and has periods of severe exhaustion. He accepts his ongoing condition, but sends a clear warning to people to take care not to catch the virus under any circumstances.

"To those who don't respect the rules, I wish they could have a week of what I felt, a week of feeling as bad as I have been," he told me.

"Perhaps then they understand that they cannot underestimate the many warnings and mandatory rules we have been given."

The doctors carrying out the follow-up and testing programme say they simply do not know enough about the virus to predict what is going to happen next.

"It's something very different, that changes the body of the patient," Dr Gianluca Imeri explained to me.

"We've also seen forms of asthma develop after coronavirus infections. We for sure know the damage of coronavirus is caused by inflammation, and asthma and other respiratory diseases are inflammatory diseases, and there are also some inflammatory diseases in our body that can be developed and triggered by coronavirus.

"Simple coronavirus pneumonia is something that patients will recover completely from, from a radiological point of view, but probably the biggest change is inflammation. I mean, we have seen inflammation in all of their bodies, vascular systems, and respiratory systems, so we think we have to tackle inflammation in these patients even when they recover from the acute phase of the disease."

So little is known of the virus that any long-term planning is guess work.

Doctors believe that even the youngest and mildest infected are at risk of their lives being changed forever, and it could take years to become apparent. Whole workforces could become less productive as a consequence.

The advice from Italy is simple: Don't get infected.

[XelNaga]

Am I crazy?
Am I suicidal?

Since the very beginning of the pandemic I have shunned all TV and MSM fear porn about the killer virus.

I have three university degrees, so someone can't claim I am uneducated.

Why do I have no fear when I am out and about in the public?
Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?
Why do I ignore markers on the floor for social distancing and directions to follow in store aisles?
Why do I not cower and keep a distance as others approach me when I walk?

What's wrong with me?
Does anyone know?

There is nothing wrong with you my friend. I would say that everything is more than alright with you.

You see through all the lies, manipulations and b.s. This whole thing is just a scam.

I'm the same like you in this regard, don't wear a mask, not avoiding people and damn sure have no fear to shake hands with someone.

Without any intention of being insulting to anyone, I would say that those people who are afraid and who wear masks are the crazy and suicidal ones.

[TomKat]

I follow Chris Martenson closely. His video channel is here (https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos). I've watched every one of his 150 videos since the third week of January. When it comes to the science, and the statistics, and all the various reports from reliable medical sources, I'd take his research over that of everyone else combined.

Martenson is highly critical of the media, the WHO, the Fed, and the HCQ studies that have been designed to fail. He's also personally certain the virus has been engineered (and he explains why, in great detail). He's one of the brightest people on YouTube.


I checked out Martenson's youtube channel, and he's relying on the mainstream media for his information.

I suspect there is a covid virus, but it's not airborne and doesn't spread easily. Nobody has done, or will do, a study, but I suspect almost all the PCR positives are from people who have had flu shots.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that people who are publicly sceptical about covid, like Boris Johnson, are given the real covid virus, if they can be gotten to. With over 12k different intelligence agencies in the US alone, it's possible some have agents in the field promoting covid panic in this way.

[Bill Ryan]

I follow Chris Martenson closely. His video channel is here (https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos). I've watched every one of his 150 videos since the third week of January. When it comes to the science, and the statistics, and all the various reports from reliable medical sources, I'd take his research over that of everyone else combined.

Martenson is highly critical of the media, the WHO, the Fed, and the HCQ studies that have been designed to fail. He's also personally certain the virus has been engineered (and he explains why, in great detail). He's one of the brightest people on YouTube.


I checked out Martenson's youtube channel, and he's relying on the mainstream media for his information.
No, he's not. He cites scientific papers frequently. His videos are a digest of the most significant reports, including many that are easy for most to miss. And he's highly skeptical of the mainstream media's role in distorting or falsifying information.

[wondering]

Chris, I am sorry to see this posted here, even to say it is fear porn. Why take up so much space for fear porn. I am appalled by it. Diane

[greybeard]

Chris, I am sorry to see this posted here, even to say it is fear porn. Why take up so much space for fear porn. I am appalled by it. Diane

Ok I wont do it again Dianne.
I suppose I posted it in part because Bill implied we have a belief system here.
Im open minded -- I guess we have to see the other side of the story to fully realise what we are up against.
Apologies Chris

[Delight]

Chris, I am sorry to see this posted here, even to say it is fear porn. Why take up so much space for fear porn. I am appalled by it. Diane

Ok I wont do it again Dianne.
I suppose I posted it in part because Bill implied we have a belief system here.
Im open minded -- I guess we have to see the other side of the story to fully realise what we are up against.
Apologies Chris

So far, I have not met anyone who has anyone who has died or even HAD covid and yet we are told that even those with mild cases are having horrible consequences and this report is from Italy which is an epicenter of forced vaccination.

BECAUSE so many are using "social responsibility" to excuse forced masks, mandatory vaccination and even incarceration, in the LIGHT of no personal experience, I would say:

"There is some thing wrong with you if you believe this" WITHOUT extraordinary proof.

Whom do YOU know who is representative of being affected by this extraordinary disease? What in the daily life YOU SEE demands loss of "life as we have lived" IN GENERAL to suit a projected (but not happening) degree of loss of life in particular? Should we all be BELIEVING this is true when we have seen no evidence that what is said is so???

The answer is "Yes we should believe and fear for others abstract danger to be "socially responsible". I think there IS something wrong when people think critiques are wrong. Does _____ have your interests in mind when she shames you for daring to doubt?

[Bill Ryan]

I suppose I posted it in part because Bill implied we have a belief system here.
Nope, not quite. :) This is what I wrote:
We're in the territory of belief systems now.

What that meant — and I should have been more precise — is that some (but not all) members appear to have a belief system about all this, which they feel the need to defend, or persuade others to adopt, by endlessly posting articles or videos that support their viewpoint.

Some of them (including yourself, Chris), post FAR more than almost anyone else. (I rarely post about this now myself.)

And as I shared here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1365198&viewfull=1#post1365198), the issues involved are complex, because there are two major factors at play here:


Facts, or research-based evidence, about the virus. (Yes, it's a real thing. I've lost count of how many times I've explained that since January.)
Ideological, value-based opinions about the various regulations, controls, recommendations, and mandates — and this is a totally different thing. And yes, that's all very important. I don't dismiss any of that in the least.

The problems start when people start posting bad science to support their opinions about the agendas at play (and of course, those are real, too), and important issues about personal freedoms.

So it's all a combo of individual free choice, assessment of and response to personal risk, and social responsibility to others. That's not an easy circle to square. None of those line up neatly.

It's entirely possible to have


A nasty virus on the loose, AND
Real issues about individual rights and social responsibilities.

In my opinion, there's been VERY little intelligent, nuanced discussion bearing in mind ALL these non-aligning factors. Most people currently posting have a values-based position.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Bill.

I have run up against this myself and conceded that there is most likely some kind of virus or something. It does seem to affect some people far more than most others. It may not be as related to age and co-morbidity as we thought at first.

So where is it? And how many are affected? Is it more deadly than the seasonal flu? Why are our hospitals empty? Why? Why? Why?

Even if there is a pandemic, why are we waiting for a vaccine? It is so hardly infectious and barely lethal that it makes more sense to go for herd immunity quickly. Isolate the at risk groups but the rest go about business as usual. To wait for a vaccine makes no sense to me, especially if the authorities have no clear understanding of this bug in the first place. Don't need to understand it, is that it, just splice some stuff together to target a particular spike on a particular virus and hope for the best?

It is the fear that I would address, and the panic. The media sensationalizes any little thing, but without any investigative reporting, what is the value in that?

With the above in mind what should the focus then be?

[greybeard]

I tend to post expert fact rather than my own opinion Dr Rashid for example.
I dont have a fixed opinion as the dust is still falling.

I would rather that David Icke is wrong and its just a conspiracy theory but I have the suspicion that he is right.

All the Drs videos that have been pulled from u tube lends strength to what is being said by these Drs.
Which is that the mortality rate is no worse than season flu -- its different but every year the flu is different.

However its just possible that this winter will see an "advanced" version which will be more deadly--- they want to keep us on the hook.

Their swan song is "Get the inoculation" -- be it flu jab or vaccine and all will be well.
They are also saying that the vaccine might not be long lasting and will have to be repeated.

Yes I post a lot on this subject and perhaps I have too much time in my hands but the information is evolving -- its not ground hog day as far as what I post. We are at war--a spiritual war - and this is my way not acquiescing.
What I post tends to give hope and reduce fear at least that is my intention.

Chris

Ps some of these people who post their videos are aware that their life is at stake --as is their livelihood out of respect for them I listen to their expert knowledge.
They are invariably at the coal face --seeing patients -- in the deep end --they have first hand information, experience.
We are getting hit night and day with coronavirus media information -- I turn on local wireless to hear music and within moments its Corona in my face.
In order to counter this propaganda I listen to spiritual talks, meditate and post relevant videos

[Bill Ryan]

Bill.

I have run up against this myself and conceded that there is most likely some kind of virus or something. It does seem to affect some people far more than most others. It may not be as related to age and co-morbidity as we thought at first.

So where is it? And how many are affected? Is it more deadly than the seasonal flu? Why are our hospitals empty? Why? Why? Why?

Even if there is a pandemic, why are we waiting for a vaccine? It is so hardly infectious and barely lethal that it makes more sense to go for herd immunity quickly. Isolate the at risk groups but the rest go about business as usual. To wait for a vaccine makes no sense to me, especially if the authorities have no clear understanding of this bug in the first place. Don't need to understand it, is that it, just splice some stuff together to target a particular spike on a particular virus and hope for the best?

It is the fear that I would address, and the panic. The media sensationalizes any little thing, but without any investigative reporting, what is the value in that?

With the above in mind what should the focus then be?Many thanks, Ernie — just a few points here in response.

It's all confusing — still. That's why (I suspect) many people feel they have to adopt a limited but fairly rigid position. It's hard work being blown around by (and having to reconcile) so much differing information!

There's a lot that's not yet understood:


Why children hardly seem to be affected.
Why some young-ish people, healthy as jumping beans, get hit really hard.
Why some people can get it twice. (This is now confirmed.)
Why there can be persisting neurological issues. The mechanisms are unknown. (Lung damage, too, and other lasting serious issues, but those are better understood.)
Why some people develop antibodies while others don't, and why those antibodies don't seem to [necessarily] prevent a recurrence of the virus.

There's a lot of downright dishonesty:


The faking of numbers and falsifying of death certificates.
HCQ studies that have been outright designed to fail.
The media campaign against HCQ. (Which all the real evidence suggests is safe, cheap and effective.)
The TOTAL SILENCE from any medical authorities, anywhere, of anything whatsoever to do with the ability of each person to strengthen and support their own immune system. (This is such an enormous red flag it's hard to describe its size. :) )

What I think we know:


It originated outside of China. (It's now been confirmed in Barcelona in March 2019, long before Wuhan.)
It's engineered. 100% for sure. Personally, I very strongly suspect it was released as a weapon, even if not initially designed as such, and China has been framed.
Whether opportunistic or planned, its advent is DEFINITELY being used to further a host of global control agendas.
There's now a more serious strain on the loose, called D614G.
It's not a respiratory disease, it's a blood-clotting disease.
The results of antibody tests are conflicting and confusing. But the significance of these so far seems to suggest that no vaccine may actually work. (It might be like the common cold, changing all the time: so no resistance, or vaccine, may be possible.)
The WHO is either incompetent, criminally complicit, or both.
Some ICUs really do seem to be near-empty. But certainly not all. The wife of a friend of mine here is a nurse, and reports that the ICU is at full capacity where she works. She can be trusted.
Fauci and Gates cannot be trusted (at all).

What I additionally strongly suspect:


The conflict, lack of preparedness, disorganization, and sheer chaos in the US from January onwards has been deliberately engineered to add more pressure to the failing social system there, and to attack Trump indirectly. It's all too neat. (At least!)

What I'm worried about:


Something else very major will happen, or become visible, before November.

[Gwin Ru]

Here is another one that's truly chilling: Antibodies dwindle down (https://www.bitchute.com/video/zU4jR4nkrSy3/) to none after a few months... which means that vaccines are useless (their main purported job being that they help generate antibodies) and as useless are the passports or immunity certificates, etc. and, furthermore, it leaves little hope for groups - small or large - to ever achieve any kind of herd immunity unless constantly re-triggered into asymptomatic infections:


Scientists Discover That The One Big Assumption That Everyone Has Been Making About COVID-19 May Be Dead Wrong (https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/scientists-discover-that-the-one-big-assumption-that-everyone-has-been-making-about-covid-19-may-be-dead-wrong/)

IWB (https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/author/maizipeng/) July 13, 2020 (https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/scientists-discover-that-the-one-big-assumption-that-everyone-has-been-making-about-covid-19-may-be-dead-wrong/)
by Michael Snyder (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/scientists-discover-that-the-one-big-assumption-that-everyone-has-been-making-about-covid-19-may-be-dead-wrong)


http://endoftheamericandream.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Coronavirus-COVID-19-Pixabay-600x400.jpg


Over the past several months, there has been a tremendous amount of debate about almost every aspect of the COVID-19 pandemic. People have been eager to debate about the severity of the virus, they have been eager to debate about the wisdom of the lockdowns, and they have been eager to debate about the effectiveness of wearing masks. But the one thing that everyone could pretty much agree on is that eventually this pandemic would end. Virtually all of us assumed that one way or another eventually most of the population would develop COVID-19 antibodies and that once we got to that point the pandemic would fizzle out. Unfortunately, it appears that was not a safe assumption to make.

Yes, those that have had COVID-19 do develop antibodies.

But two new scientific studies have discovered that those antibodies start to fade very, very quickly.

For example, a study that was recently conducted in China found that more than 90 percent of COVID-19 patients experience steep declines in COVID-19 antibodies “within 2 to 3 months” (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/06/chinese-study-antibodies-covid-19-patients-fade-quickly)…
A new study (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0965-6) from China showed that antibodies faded quickly in both asymptomatic and symptomatic COVID-19 patients during convalescence, raising questions about whether the illness leads to any lasting immunity to the virus afterward.

The study, which focused on 37 asymptomatic and 37 symptomatic patients, showed that more than 90% of both groups showed steep declines in levels of SARS-COV-2–specific immunoglobulin G (IgG) antibodies within 2 to 3 months after onset of infection, according to a report published yesterday in Nature Medicine. Further, 40% of the asymptomatic group tested negative for IgG antibodies 8 weeks after they were released from isolation.
And a very large study that was just conducted in Spain found that some patients that had initially successfully developed antibodies “no longer had antibodies weeks later” (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244087867.html)…
A large study from Spain showed that antibodies can disappear weeks after people have tested positive, causing some to question how possible it will be to attain herd immunity.

A study published in medical journal Lancet (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31483-5/fulltext) showed 14% of people who tested positive for antibodies no longer had antibodies weeks later.
Needless to say, this is absolutely devastating news, and it has very serious implications for vaccine development (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-antibodies-last-just-months-2020-7)…
Such findings have implications for vaccine development, since the efficacy of a vaccine hinges on the idea that a dose of weakened or dead virus can prompt your body to generate antibodies that protect you from future infection. If those antibodies are fleeting, a vaccine’s protection would be fleeting too.

Short-lived antibodies also diminish hopes of achieving widespread or permanent herd immunity.
If antibodies can fade in some patients within weeks, and if just about everyone loses them after a few months, that would render any vaccine almost completely useless.

And if these findings are confirmed, we can pretty much forget about ever achieving “herd immunity”.

Instead, we are potentially facing a future in which COVID-19 will be with us permanently, and people will need to understand that there is a possibility that they will be able to get infected repeatedly.

Sadly, there is evidence that this is already starting to happen for some patients. In a recent article for Vox (https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321653/getting-covid-19-twice-reinfection-antibody-herd-immunity), a doctor in Washington D.C. named D. Clay Ackerly shared that one of his patients got infected with COVID-19 again three months after being infected the first time…
“Wait. I can catch Covid twice?” my 50-year-old patient asked in disbelief. It was the beginning of July, and he had just tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19 (https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19), for a second time — three months after a previous infection.
And in that same article (https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321653/getting-covid-19-twice-reinfection-antibody-herd-immunity), Dr. Ackerly explained that other doctors are starting to see similar cases….
Recent reports (https://dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/monmouth/news/central-jersey-doctor-reports-patients-reinfected-with-coronavirus/790555/) and conversations with physician colleagues suggest my patient is not alone. Two patients in New Jersey, for instance, appear to have contracted Covid-19 a second time almost two months after fully recovering from their first infection. Daniel Griffin, a physician and researcher at Columbia in New York, recently described a case of presumed reinfection on the This Week in Virology podcast (https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/).
If you stop and really think about what all of this means, it will chill you to the core.
It means that COVID-19 is never going away.

And every time you get it, the more severe it is likely to be. Each time it will do even more permanent damage to your system until it finally finishes you off.

I seriously wish that what I was telling you was not true. I do not want to have to worry about a potentially deadly virus every time I leave my house.

But sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that everything is going to be okay somehow is not going to do us any good.

In fact, denial can kill you.

A 37-year-old Ohio man named Richard Rose originally thought that all of the fuss about COVID-19 was just “hype”, and he angrily insisted that he would never buy a mask. The following is what he posted on Facebook on April 28th (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8515535/Ohio-man-37-dies-coronavirus-claiming-pandemic-just-hype-Facebook-post.html)…
‘Let make this clear,’ he wrote, in a post that was shared 10,000 times.

‘I’m not buying a ******* mask. I’ve made it this far by not buying into that damn hype.’
Sadly, he eventually got infected, and COVID-19 killed him on July 3rd (https://www.insider.com/ohio-man-veteran-died-coronavirus-mask-facebook-posts-2020-7)…
Richard Rose, a 37-year-old man from Port Clinton, Ohio, recently died from coronavirus after slamming “hype” about the pandemic on Facebook.

Rose’s family told Cleveland CBS affiliate 19 News the US Army veteran died at home on July 3 (https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/07/10/year-old-port-clinton-war-vet-dies-covid-complications-fourth-july/), just three days after testing positive for COVID-19.
He was a healthy 37-year-old man.

If the virus can take him down, it could potentially take just about anyone down.

So please take this pandemic seriously.

Over the past week, we have seen daily numbers soar to levels that we have never seen before, and some experts believe that the numbers will continue to go higher as we approach the end of the year.

And as I just discussed above, if those that have had the virus quickly lose immunity, there will be nothing to stop this virus from sweeping across the globe year after year.

Needless to say, a lot more scientific studies need to be conducted, and hopefully those additional studies will show that the studies that were done in China and Spain were completely wrong.

But at this point the outlook for fighting this virus is exceedingly bleak, and scientists assure us that it is just a matter of time before a pandemic that is even worse comes along.

[Bill Ryan]

Antibodies dwindle down to none after a few months... which means that vaccines are useless (their main purported job being that they help generate antibodies) and as useless are the passports or immunity certificates, etc. and, furthermore, it leaves little hope for groups - small or large - to ever achieve any kind of herd immunity unless constantly re-triggered into asymptomatic infections:

Scientists Discover That The One Big Assumption That Everyone Has Been Making About COVID-19 May Be Dead Wrong (https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/scientists-discover-that-the-one-big-assumption-that-everyone-has-been-making-about-covid-19-may-be-dead-wrong/)Gwin, thank you.... not good news, but I'd NOT read that, and it fully supports several of the assertions I made in my multi-point personal post just above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111468-What-s-wrong-with-me&p=1366434&viewfull=1#post1366434).

[Bill Ryan]

If those that have had the virus quickly lose immunity, there will be nothing to stop this virus from sweeping across the globe year after year.Actually, that's not technically accurate. Some may celebrate this note below, while others may be dismayed.

That's because if the R0 can be held <1, then it'll eventually die out by being unable to spread efficiently to others. But that (of course) requires a lot of well-organized NPIs (non-pharmaceutical interventions), a summary acronym for all the ways of stopping it from being spread from one person to others.

And that's where the conflicts of personal interest — for lack of a better term! — lie.

[Satori]

Antibodies dwindle down to none after a few months... which means that vaccines are useless (their main purported job being that they help generate antibodies) and as useless are the passports or immunity certificates, etc. and, furthermore, it leaves little hope for groups - small or large - to ever achieve any kind of herd immunity unless constantly re-triggered into asymptomatic infections:

Scientists Discover That The One Big Assumption That Everyone Has Been Making About COVID-19 May Be Dead Wrong (https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/scientists-discover-that-the-one-big-assumption-that-everyone-has-been-making-about-covid-19-may-be-dead-wrong/)Gwin, thank you.... not good news, but I'd NOT read that, and it fully supports several of the assertions I made in my multi-point personal post just above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111468-What-s-wrong-with-me&p=1366434&viewfull=1#post1366434).

To my way of thinking, if what is contained in this article proves to be accurate, then social distancing, masks, etc... are a colossal waste of time and effort, providing only a relatively brief respite from the inevitable death of most of us.

The measures foisted upon us supposedly designed to prevent exposure to “covid 19 disease” are but a false sense of security at best.

So, go out and live each day as if it was your last. It may just be. If you believe the pitch in the article.

[Constance]

Back to the question of the children.

Why are our children so little affected by what is happening?

What is it about a childs immune system that is different to an adults?

Why should there be any difference?

What is it that we don't yet know or understand about nature?

I ask these questions purely for contemplation and they are rhetorical in their nature.

[TomKat]

It's engineered. 100% for sure. Personally, I very strongly suspect it was released as a weapon, even if not initially designed as such, and China has been framed.


Last night's Coast radio had Dr. Eric Haseltine, formerly of the CIA. Discussing covid, "his information indicates that the COVID-19 virus is "not manmade" because the research indicates that it has "none of the hallmarks of a bioweapon," such as the way it mutates and its structure."

When he failed to mention gain-of-function research, I turned him off. They can say there's no genetic evidence it was made in a lab, but that isn't how it's done!

[Catsquotl]

Am I crazy?

Does anyone know?


Stark raving mad.
:clapping:

[greybeard]

Back to the question of the children.

Why are our children so little affected by what is happening?

What is it about a childs immune system that is different to an adults?

Why should there be any difference?

What is it that we don't yet know or understand about nature?

I ask these questions purely for contemplation and they are rhetorical in their nature.

Could it be that their immune system is in better order due to less vaccines/flu shots than adults?
Chris

[Constance]

Back to the question of the children.

Why are our children so little affected by what is happening?

What is it about a childs immune system that is different to an adults?

Why should there be any difference?

What is it that we don't yet know or understand about nature?

I ask these questions purely for contemplation and they are rhetorical in their nature.

Could it be that their immune system is in better order due to less vaccines/flu shots than adults?
Chris

What part didn't you get about the questions being rhetorical Chris? :bigsmile:

However, that is a very good question. :flower: Initially, I wanted to take a stab at answering your question but your question just seemed to bring up more questions.

Questions such as:

What kind of overall health are children around the world experiencing at this present time?

Are childrens immune systems currently in better shape than adults?

Are childrens immune systems vastly different from adults? And if so, why?

How could we possibly establish how many vaccines each adult individual has received to date who has been affected by COVID vs how many vaccines children have received who have been unaffected by COVID? Is it even statistically possible?

[greybeard]

God Save Donald Trump & our Children (The Great Awakening)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKqX-HN6IIw

[Mashika]

Am I crazy?
Am I suicidal?

Since the very beginning of the pandemic I have shunned all TV and MSM fear porn about the killer virus.

You should have done that since ever, not just because of the "virus" :)



I have three university degrees, so someone can't claim I am uneducated.

Xmmm, really that doesn't means much, some people can buy degrees and some people have them but are not good at all on their area, it's just a paper :P

I think the part where those papers start showing real education is when the person holding the title does something significant, because there are "engineers without title and there are titles without engineer"

I'm sorry i could not resist :P



Why do I have no fear when I am out and about in the public?

Because you know what you know :D



Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?

Because you are looking up for yourself, and other people looking out for themselves, but there's no intersection between your needs and their needs



Why do I ignore markers on the floor for social distancing and directions to follow in store aisles?

I also like to feel i rebel against stuff like that, it makes me feel punk and free



Why do I not cower and keep a distance as others approach me when I walk?

1lyu1KKwC74



What's wrong with me?
Does anyone know?
Nothing much, just normal person, nothing to think much about really, your choices are yours, as much as other people have their own

Everything can be seen and taken from different points of views, it doesn't mean much in the end, just people living their lives making their own choices. Right?

[greybeard]

“No one has died from the coronavirus” Important revelations shared by Dr Stoian Alexov, President of the Bulgarian Pathology Association

https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/02/no-one-has-died-from-the-coronavirus-president-of-the-bulgarian-pathology-association/

high-profile European pathologist is reporting that he and his colleagues across Europe have not found any evidence of any deaths from the novel coronavirus on that continent.

Dr. Stoian Alexov called the World Health Organization (WHO) a “criminal medical organization” for creating worldwide fear and chaos without providing objectively verifiable proof of a pandemic.

Another stunning revelation from Bulgarian Pathology Association (BPA) president Dr. Alexov is that he believes it’s currently “impossible” to create a vaccine against the virus.

He also revealed that European pathologists haven’t identified any antibodies that are specific for SARS-CoV-2.

These stunning statements raise major questions, including about officials’ and scientists’ claims regarding the many vaccines they’re rushing into clinical trials around the world.

They also raise doubt about the veracity of claims of discovery of anti-novel-coronavirus antibodies (which are beginning to be used to treat patients).

Novel-coronavirus-specific antibodies are supposedly the basis for the expensive serology test kits being used in many countries (some of which have been found to be unacceptably inaccurate).

And they’re purportedly key to the immunity certificates coveted by Bill Gates that are about to go into widespread use — in the form of the COVI-PASS — in 15 countries including the UK, US, and Canada.

Dr. Alexov made his jaw-dropping observations in a video interview summarizing the consensus of participants in a May 8, 2020, European Society of Pathology (ESP) webinar on COVID-19.

The May 13 video interview of Dr. Alexov was conducted by Dr. Stoycho Katsarov, chair of the Center for Protection of Citizens’ Rights in Sofia and a former Bulgarian deputy minister of health. The video is on the BPA’s website, which also highlights some of Dr. Alexov’s main points.

We asked a native Bulgarian speaker with a science background to orally translate the video interview into English. We then transcribed her translation. The video is here and our English transcript is here.

Among the major bombshells Dr. Alexov dropped is that the leaders of the May 8 ESP webinar said no novel-coronavirus-specific antibodies have been found.

The body forms antibodies specific to pathogens it encounters. These specific antibodies are known as monoclonal antibodies and are a key tool in pathology. This is done via immunohistochemistry, which involves tagging antibodies with colours and then coating the biopsy- or autopsy-tissue slides with them. After giving the antibodies time to bind to the pathogens they’re specific for, the pathologists can look at the slides under a microscope and see the specific places where the coloured antibodies — and therefore the pathogens they’re bound to – are located.

Therefore, in the absence of monoclonal antibodies to the novel coronavirus, pathologists cannot verify whether SARS-CoV-2 is present in the body, or whether the diseases and deaths attributed to it indeed were caused by the virus rather than by something else.

It would be easy to dismiss Dr. Alexov as just another crank ‘conspiracy theorist.’ After all many people believe they’re everywhere these days, spreading dangerous misinformation about COVID-19 and other issues.

In addition, little of what Dr. Alexov alleges was the consensus from the May 8 webinar is in the publicly viewable parts of the proceedings.

But keep in mind that whistleblowers often stand alone because the vast majority of people are afraid to speak out publicly.

Also, Dr. Alexov has an unimpugnable record and reputation. He’s been a physician for 30 years. He’s president of the BPA, a member of the ESP’s Advisory Board and head of the histopathology department at the Oncology Hospital in the Bulgarian capital of Sofia.

On top of that, there’s other support for what Dr. Alexov is saying.

For example, the director of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at the University Medical Center Hamburg-Eppendorf in Germany said in media interviews that there’s a striking dearth of solid evidence for COVID-19’s lethality.

“COVID-19 is a fatal disease only in exceptional cases, but in most cases it is a predominantly harmless viral infection,” Dr. Klaus Püschel told a German paper in April. Adding in another interview:

In quite a few cases, we have also found that the current corona infection has nothing whatsoever to do with the fatal outcome because other causes of death are present, for example, a brain hemorrhage or a heart attack […] [COVID-19 is] not particularly dangerous viral disease […] All speculation about individual deaths that have not been expertly examined only fuel anxiety.”

Also, one of us (Rosemary) and another journalist, Amory Devereux, documented in a June 9 Off-Guardian article that the novel coronavirus has not fulfilled Koch’s postulates.

These postulates are scientific steps used to prove whether a virus exists and has a one-to-one relationship with a specific disease. We showed that to date no one has proven SARS-CoV-2 causes a discrete illness matching the characteristics of all the people who ostensibly died from COVID-19. Nor has the virus has been isolated, reproduced and then shown to cause this discrete illness.

In addition, in a June 27 Off-Guardian article two more journalists, Torsten Engelbrecht and Konstantin Demeter, added to the evidence that “the existence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA is based on faith, not fact.”

The pair also confirmed “there is no scientific proof that those RNA sequences [deemed to match that of the novel coronavirus] are the causative agent of what is called COVID-19.”

Dr. Alexov stated in the May 13 interview that:

the main conclusion [of those of us who participated in the May 8 webinar] was that the autopsies that were conducted in Germany, Italy, Spain, France and Sweden do not show that the virus is deadly.”

He added that:

What all of the pathologists said is that there’s no one who has died from the coronavirus. I will repeat that: no one has died from the coronavirus.”

Dr. Alexov also observed there is no proof from autopsies that anyone deemed to have been infected with the novel coronavirus died only from an inflammatory reaction sparked by the virus (presenting as interstitial pneumonia) rather than from other potentially fatal diseases.

Another revelation of his is that:

“We need to see exactly how the law will deal with immunization and that vaccine that we’re all talking about, because I’m certain it’s [currently] not possible to create a vaccine against COVID. I’m not sure what exactly Bill Gates is doing with his laboratories – is it really a vaccine he’s producing, or something else?”

As pointed to above, the inability to identify monoclonal antibodies for the virus suggests there is no basis for the vaccines, serological testing and immunity certificates being rolled out around the globe at unprecedented speed and cost. In fact, there is no solid evidence the virus exists.

Dr. Alexov made still more important points. For example, he noted that, in contrast to the seasonal influenza, SARS-CoV-2 hasn’t been proven to kill youth:

[With the flu] we can find one virus which can cause a young person to die with no other illness present […] In other words, the coronavirus infection is an infection that does not lead to death. And the flu can lead to death.”

(There have been reports of severe maladies such as Kawasaki-like disease and stroke in young people who were deemed to have a novel-coronavirus infection. However, the majority of published papers on these cases are very short and include only one or only a small handful of patients. Moreover, commenters on the papers note it’s impossible to determine the role of the virus because the papers’ authors did not control sufficiently, if at all, for confounding factors. It’s most likely that children’s deaths attributed to COVID-19 in fact are from multiple organ failure resulting from the combination of the drug cocktail and ventilation that these children are subjected to.)

Dr. Alexov therefore asserted that:

the WHO is creating worldwide chaos, with no real facts behind what they’re saying.”

Among the myriad ways the WHO is creating that chaos is by prohibiting almost all autopsies of people deemed to have died from COVID-19. As a result, reported Dr. Alexov, by May 13 only three such autopsies had been conducted in Bulgaria.

Also, the WHO is dictating that everyone said to be infected with the novel coronavirus who subsequently dies must have their deaths attributed to COVID-19.

“That’s quite stressful for us, and for me in particular, because we have protocols and procedures which we need to use,” he told Dr. Katsarov. “…And another pathologist 100 years from now is going to say, ‘Hey, those pathologists didn’t know what they were doing [when they said the cause of death was COVID-19]!’ So we need to be really strict with our diagnoses, because they could be proven [or disproven], and they could be checked again later.”

He disclosed that pathologists in several countries in Europe, as well as in China, Australia and Canada are strongly resisting the pressure on them to attribute deaths to COVID-19 alone:

I’m really sad that we need to follow the [WHO’s] instructions without even thinking about them. But in Germany, France, Italy and England they’re starting to think that we shouldn’t follow the WHO so strictly, and [instead] when we’re writing the cause of death we should have some pathology [results to back that up] and we should follow the protocol. [That’s because] when we say something we need to be able to prove it.”

(He added that autopsies could have helped confirm or disprove the theory that many of the people deemed to have died of COVID-19 in Italy had previously received the H1N1 flu vaccine. Because, as he noted, the vaccine suppresses adults’ immune systems and therefore may have been a significant contributor to their deaths by making them much more susceptible to infection.)

Drs. Alexov and Katsarov agreed that yet another aspect of the WHO-caused chaos and its fatal consequences is many people are likely to die soon from diseases such as cancer because the lockdowns, combined with the emptying of hospitals (ostensibly to make room for COVID-19 patients), halted all but the most pressing procedures and treatments.

They also observed these diseases are being exacerbated by the fear and chaos surrounding COVID-19.

We know that stress significantly suppresses the immune system, so I can really claim 200% that all the chronic diseases will be more severe and more acute per se. Specifically in situ carcinoma – over 50% of these are going to become more invasive […] So I will say that this epidemic isn’t so much an epidemic of the virus, it’s an epidemic of giving people a lot of fear and stress.”

In addition, posited Dr. Alexov, as another direct and dire result of the pandemic panic many people are losing faith in physicians.

Because in my opinion the coronavirus isn’t that dangerous, and how are people going to have trust in me doing cancer pathology, much of which is related to viruses as well? But nobody is talking about that.”

We emailed Dr. Alexov several questions, including asking why he believes it’s impossible to create a vaccine against COVID-19.

He didn’t answer the questions directly. Dr. Alexov instead responded:

We also emailed five of Dr. Alexov’s colleagues in the ESP asking them to confirm Dr. Alexov’s revelations. We followed up by telephone with two of them. None responded.

Why didn’t Dr. Alexov or his five colleagues answer our questions?

We doubt it’s due to lack of English proficiency.

It’s more likely because of the pressure on pathologists to follow the WHO’s directives and not speak out publicly. (And, on top of that, pathology departments depend on governments for their funding.)

Nonetheless, pathologists like Drs. Alexov and Püschel appear to be willing to step out and say that no one has died from a novel-coronavirus infection.

Perhaps that’s because pathologists’ records and reputations are based on hard physical evidence rather than on subjective interpretation of tests, signs and symptoms. And there is no hard physical evidence that COVID-19 is deadly.

[Open Minded Dude]

Am I crazy?
Why do I have no fear when I am out and about in the public?
Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?
Why do I ignore markers on the floor for social distancing and directions to follow in store aisles?
Why do I not cower and keep a distance as others approach me when I walk?

I think many if not most here fit that behavioural profile. Welcome to the club. You are a true Avalonian.
:clapping::happythumbsup:

[shaberon]

I tend to agree one of the most direct routes to mental health is to Kill Your TV.

By extension, that includes the majority of the internet used as a copy/paste of "opinions we are supposed to choose".

Weapon or not, yes, evidence of the virus is found in Spain many months before the Chinese were intelligent enough to isolate and identify it.

If no big deal was made, hardly anyone would care, it would just be treated.

If it was a wave of Plague, Ebola, etc., we would see it coming and then yes, a strong reaction might be necessary, for instance at the point when people finally demand the government do something. Not the government having a stockbrokers' party and telling the people what to do.

This is very upside-down, and, I think, part of the main point is to beat the media and government down to a trivial role, they are not reliable sources of anything--more like a way to make monkeys jump around.

[DaveToo]

I noticed yesterday that someone (I assume a moderator) changed the title of this thread that I started. I wasn’t consulted or notified about it.

My title was simply: "What's wrong with me?"

It was changed to: "What's wrong with me? I've shunned all fear porn about the virus"


When I noticed the change yesterday, I edited the title in my original post to include "killer" because that is what I stated inside my initial post and the word is important to me.

So my edited title read: "What's wrong with me? I've shunned all fear porn about the killer virus".

Looking at posts after I made the edit, I noticed the following:

If someone replied to my initial post: “killer” is included in the title
If someone replied to the thread, but didn’t quote anyone: “killer” is not included in the title
If someone replied to the thread and quoted someone who did not reply to my initial post: “killer” is not included in the title.
And I assume that if someone replies to the thread and quotes someone who did reply to my initial post, “killer” will be included in the title.

My request to moderators, could you please change the official title of the thread so that it reads:

"What's wrong with me? I've shunned all fear porn about the killer virus" ?

Thanks.

[greybeard]

The Screw is Tightening

nternational best-selling author, Dr Vernon Coleman MB ChB DSc FRSA, explains how and why we are all still being deliberately terrified by our governments, analyses the coronavirus which he first exposed in February 2020, and challenges the UK's Chief Medical Officer to a debate about vaccination.
For more unbiased information about other important issues, please visit http://www.vernoncoleman.com
The transcripts of the videos that YouTube banned are also on the website (click on the 'Health' button and see top of page).
Thank you for all your support and encouragement.
Please feel free to share this video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vTM1NU6NZU

[greybeard]

Posted by viking Bombshell Disclosure from a Consultant at a Major Hospital.

http://tapnewswire.com/2020/07/bombshell-disclosure-from-a-consultant-at-a-major-hospital/


I am a consultant at a major, regional hospital in Surrey. By major you can take that to indicate that we have an A&E department. I had agreed to give an interview to an anti lockdown activist in which I would have revealed my identity. I have since changed my mind and only feel able to give an anonymous statement.

I have changed my mind simply because that all staff, no matter what grade, at all hospitals have been warned that if they give any media interviews at all or make any statements to either the Main Stream Press or smaller, independent press /social media we may, immediately be suspended without pay. I have a family, dependents and I simply cant do it to them. I therefore can not reveal my identity at this time but wish to state as follows:

In my opinion, and that of many of my colleagues, there has been no Covid Pandemic, certainly not in the Surrey region and I have heard from other colleagues this picture is the same throughout the country. Our hospital would normally expect to see around 350,000 out patients a year. Around 95,000 patients are admitted to hospital in a normal year and we would expect to see around a similar figure, perhaps 100,000 patients pass through our A&E department. In the months from March to June (inclusive) we would normally expect to see 100,000 out patients, around 30,000 patients admitted to hospital and perhaps 30,000 pass through A&E. This year (and these figures are almost impossible to get hold of) we are over 95% down on all those numbers. In effect, the hospital has been pretty much empty for that entire period.

At the start, staff that questioned this were told that we were being used as ‘redundant’ capacity, kept back for the ‘deluge’ we were told would come. It never did come, and when staff began to question this, comments like, ‘for the greater good’ and to ‘protect the NHS’ came down from above. Now it’s just along the lines of, ‘Shut up or you don’t get paid’. The few Covid cases that we have had get repeatedly tested, and every single test counted as a new case. Meaning the figures reported back to ONS / PHE (Office for National Statistics & Public Health England) were almost exponentially inflated. It could be that Covid cases reported by hospitals are between 5 to 10x higher than the real number of cases. There has been no pandemic and this goes a long way to explain why figures for the UK are so much higher than anywhere else in Europe.

The trust has been running empty ambulances during lockdown and is still doing it now. By this I mean ambulances are driving around, with their emergency alert systems active (sirens & / or lights) with no job to go to. This I believe has been to give the impression to the public that there is more demand for ambulances than there actually is. Staff only wear face coverings/ masks & social distance when public facing, as soon as they are out of public view, the masks come off and social distancing is not observed. Indeed jokes are made about the measures, and I have heard staff express amazement that despite warnings on packets and at point of sales, telling people masks are totally ineffective and dangerous , the public still buy them, because a politician has told them too.

We have cancelled the vast majority of operations and of these ALL elective surgery has been cancelled. That’s surgery that has been pre planned / waiting list. Non elective Surgery, this tends to be emergency surgery or that which is deemed urgent has been severely curtailed. The outcome of this is simple. People are at best being denied basic medical care and at worst, being left to die, in some cases, in much distress and pain.

Regarding death certification. All staff that are responsible for this have been encouraged where possible to put Covid-19 complications as reason for death, even though the patient may have been asymptomatic and also not even tested for covid. I feel this simply amounts to fraudulently completed death certificates and has been responsible to grossly inflating the number of Covid deaths. The fact is that regardless of what you actually die of in hospital, it is likely that Covid-19 will feature on your death certificate. I have included with my statement the detailed published guidance from Government on Death Certification which shows how Covid-19, as a factor is encouraged to at least feature on a death certificate. Remember Covid-19 itself can not kill. What kills is complications from the virus, typically pneumonia like symptoms. These complications are in reality incredibly rare but have featured and a large amount of death certificates issued in recent months. As long as Covid-19 appears on a death certificate, that death is counted as Covid-19 in the figures released by the ONS and PHE. I genuinely believe that many death certificates, especially amongst the older 65+ demographic have been fraudulently completed so as to be counted as Covid-19 deaths when in reality Covid-19 complications did not cause the death.

There have been Thursday nights when I stood, alone in my office and cried as I heard people cheering and clapping outside. It sickens me to see all the ‘Thank You NHS’ signs up everywhere and the stolen rainbow that for me now says one word and word only; Fear.
There are many good people in the NHS and whilst I do not plead forgiveness for myself, I do plead for them. Most are on low pay, they joined for the right reasons and I did and have been bullied and threatened that if they don’t ‘stay on message’ they don’t eat. I know that if a way could be found to assure staff within the NHS of safety against reprisals, there would be a tsunami of whistleblowers which I have no doubt would help end this complete and brutal insanity. I am finding it increasingly hard to live with what I have been involved in and I am sorry this has happened.

To end, I would simply say this. Politicians haven’t changed, the country has just made a fatal mistake and started trusting them without question.

[Arcturian108]

My only hunch about why the children are not getting infected is that compared to senior citizens, very few children would have gotten the yearly flu shot. I wonder what percentage of those who are dying of Covid-19 also were recipients of flu shots the past two years?

[DaveToo]

My only hunch about why the children are not getting infected is that compared to senior citizens, very few children would have gotten the yearly flu shot. I wonder what percentage of those who are dying of Covid-19 also were recipients of flu shots the past two years?

Good theory.
Do you foresee any Gates-funded research lab carrying out an unbiased study about this?

[holcaul]

What I'm worried about:


Something else very major will happen, or become visible, before November.


Bill, please expand on that as much as you can?!

[DaveToo]

Oh no.
This study confirms there is something wrong with me! :(

https://www.fastcompany.com/90527258/people-who-social-distance-may-be-more-intelligent-study-says

"“We propose that this [failure to social distance] may be associated with the limitation in one’s mental capacity to simultaneously retain multiple pieces of information in working memory,”

[Bill Ryan]

What I'm worried about:


Something else very major will happen, or become visible, before November.

Bill, please expand on that as much as you can?!Well, I can't! But I'm still worried about the possibility. A lot of people are intuiting the same kind of concern.

[Bill Ryan]

It's all confusing — still. That's why (I suspect) many people feel they have to adopt a limited but fairly rigid position. It's hard work being blown around by (and having to reconcile) so much differing information!

There's a lot that's not yet understood:


Why children hardly seem to be affected.
Why some young-ish people, healthy as jumping beans, get hit really hard.
Why some people can get it twice. (This is now confirmed.)
Why there can be persisting neurological issues. The mechanisms are unknown. (Lung damage, too, and other lasting serious issues, but those are better understood.)
Why some people develop antibodies while others don't, and why those antibodies don't seem to [necessarily] prevent a recurrence of the virus.

There's a lot of downright dishonesty:


The faking of numbers and falsifying of death certificates.
HCQ studies that have been outright designed to fail.
The media campaign against HCQ. (Which all the real evidence suggests is safe, cheap and effective.)
The TOTAL SILENCE from any medical authorities, anywhere, of anything whatsoever to do with the ability of each person to strengthen and support their own immune system. (This is such an enormous red flag it's hard to describe its size. :) )

What I think we know:


It originated outside of China. (It's now been confirmed in Barcelona in March 2019, long before Wuhan.)
It's engineered. 100% for sure. Personally, I very strongly suspect it was released as a weapon, even if not initially designed as such, and China has been framed.
Whether opportunistic or planned, its advent is DEFINITELY being used to further a host of global control agendas.
There's now a more serious strain on the loose, called D614G.
It's not a respiratory disease, it's a blood-clotting disease.
The results of antibody tests are conflicting and confusing. But the significance of these so far seems to suggest that no vaccine may actually work. (It might be like the common cold, changing all the time: so no resistance, or vaccine, may be possible.)
The WHO is either incompetent, criminally complicit, or both.
Some ICUs really do seem to be near-empty. But certainly not all. The wife of a friend of mine here is a nurse, and reports that the ICU is at full capacity where she works. She can be trusted.
Fauci and Gates cannot be trusted (at all).

What I additionally strongly suspect:


The conflict, lack of preparedness, disorganization, and sheer chaos in the US from January onwards has been deliberately engineered to add more pressure to the failing social system there, and to attack Trump indirectly. It's all too neat. (At least!)

What I'm worried about:


Something else very major will happen, or become visible, before November.



This video from Chris Martenson yesterday exactly confirms my concerns above, with a bunch of references. (And those very well shared by Gwin Ru, in his post that followed (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111468-What-s-wrong-with-me-I-ve-shunned-all-fear-porn-about-the-killer-virus&p=1366457&viewfull=1#post1366457).)

The detailed technical section from 22:34—32:04 is all about Invermectin. (It works. :thumbsup: ) So skip over that if you like. That's not why I'm posting this here.

And nor is this anything about whether or not one should wear masks (etc etc etc etc). As I posted earlier on this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111468-What-s-wrong-with-me-I-ve-shunned-all-fear-porn-about-the-killer-virus&p=1366424&highlight=social#post1366424), there's a direct non-aligned conflict between


Science
Misrepresentation/falsification of the statistics
Personal health decisions
Social responsibility.

This video is merely about what are increasingly looking to be the facts about this thing — if you happen to get it, or someone gets it whom you know and care about.

THEN (having understood the info in the video), make your personal decisions.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDpuouYUFc

[greybeard]

YouTube CENSORED: DOCTORS IN BLACK / PlanDemic

Dr Judy sure knows what she is talking about
She says the virus was not naturally occurring.
Short videos placed in the main one to confirm her story and views.
Chris



https://www.bitchute.com/video/zU4jR4nkrSy3/

[Gwin Ru]

What I'm worried about:


Something else very major will happen, or become visible, before November.

Bill, please expand on that as much as you can?!Well, I can't! But I'm still worried about the possibility. A lot of people are intuiting the same kind of concern.
Even Jim Stone is getting bad news from trusted insider:
Insider info: Pandemic mayhem in October (http://82.221.129.208/.vh7.html)

I just finished talking to a high ranking member of a major conservative organization that has already locked down millions of people in quarantine due to the organization having knowledge of a new virus that will be released within a time frame that slates October as a month of major mayhem.

This organization has many elite within it's ranks yet is conservative. They have already provided comfortable quarantine to millions of people.

Some of their people are still out and about in public, but they have protected their most valuable people with forced quarantine because they don't know when the new virus will be released and there will be two groups, those that are already quarantined and those that are not quarantined but provide support. It is a very interesting arrangement, they are obviously taking this seriously.

Many readers of this site have probably seen the recent video clip of Bill Gates stating "This virus did not get taken seriously, but the next one will". It came off as a threat. I believe that was a real threat, and now that this organization has taken this action, it really appears we indeed have something to worry about.

It was the conservatives that first saw through the B.S. and if this organization is not subverted it has to mean that the elite within its ranks got real insider info and there really is something new on the way to worry about. I'd say there is a 30 percent chance of subversion and a 70 percent chance this is all legit.

Anyone with a lick of sense knows the doctors are murdering people and false registering deaths, as well as faking test results to get the stats up to actionable levels, but too many people are aware of this now and it is highly probable that the elite have therefore decided to do it for real this time.

So it only makes sense to:
1. If you own a business, be prepared to shut it down, now is not the time to expand and put it at risk with additional debt. If it is going under already, don't wipe yourself out trying to keep it afloat.

2. If you consumed your Corona supplies and can build them back up, you had better get that done SOON because the clock is ticking, this time we have a solid warning.
There is obviously a chance this is all a hoax and nothing real ever will be released, but Bill Gates actually did threaten this and this particular organization would be the last one I'd ever expect to fall for a hoax.

Subversion is possible, but not likely.
________________________________________


Related:


Here is What's coming (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=1366678&viewfull=1#post1366678)



FEMA EMPLOYEE WARNS OF FINAL DEPOPULATION MOVE LATER THIS YEAR - CELESTE SOLUM (VIDEO) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111213-The-planned-takedown-of-America-now--June-2020--in-full-swing.&p=1363771&viewfull=1#post1363771)



Breaking News: Dr. Evil Returns with Neuroweapons (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111213-The-planned-takedown-of-America-now--June-2020--in-full-swing.&p=1363790&viewfull=1#post1363790)

[greybeard]

The UK news is full of subtle and not so subtle warning about next wave being worse -- and of course all about coming vaccines including flu one.
In the video above YouTube CENSORED: DOCTORS IN BLACK / PlanDemic Dr. Judy Mikovits
Goes into great detail about the millions allready killed by vaccines -- a whole generation lost in Africa I think she said.

Also millions will die if they accept this coming vaccine.

USA soldiers have to take every vaccine that comes along and then there have been severe reactions when the virus actually comes along.
I cant remember the exact term but it a well known reaction.
The video well worth watching -- professionally put together -- rather than the usual u tube talk.
Chris

[AutumnW]

Back to the question of the children.

Why are our children so little affected by what is happening?

What is it about a childs immune system that is different to an adults?

Why should there be any difference?

What is it that we don't yet know or understand about nature?

I ask these questions purely for contemplation and they are rhetorical in their nature.

Could it be that their immune system is in better order due to less vaccines/flu shots than adults?
Chris

From the Atlantic Monthly:

Babies are born, for example, with a complete repertoire of immune cells called T cells. Every T cell has a unique receptor, and taken together, the pool of millions of T cells can recognize virtually any hypothetical pathogen. As the child begins encountering pathogens, though, their immune system winnows this diverse repertoire. It keeps the T cells involved in fighting off pathogens as a pre-stocked arsenal of “memory T cells,” should those pathogens appear again, but it begins losing the others.

This is why adults are able to mount a rapid immune response to previously encountered pathogens, but also why they might have trouble fighting a new one. Diseases such as rubella and chicken pox are also, for various reasons, more severe in adults than in children.

The pattern with seasonal flu is different, Farber says, but that may be because immunity against previous strains of the flu offer some crossover protection in adults.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/covid-19-kids/611728/

[Satori]

Oh no.
This study confirms there is something wrong with me! :(

https://www.fastcompany.com/90527258/people-who-social-distance-may-be-more-intelligent-study-says

"“We propose that this [failure to social distance] may be associated with the limitation in one’s mental capacity to simultaneously retain multiple pieces of information in working memory,”

This "study" is a crock of you-know-what.

I suggest the opposite of what is claimed here would be closer to the mark. This is more guilting and shaming on a level intended to literally insult one's intelligence if you do not go along with the program. "See, there's something wrong you on an intellectual level." Who wants to be seen and labeled that way?

If you want to be seen as intelligent, better put on a mask and also make sure you stay at least 6 feet from everyone. To be seen as really intelligent, wear the mask outside, in your car and don't forget the rubber gloves.

They are trying hard to turn neighbor against neighbor, friend against friend, family against family, co-worker against co-worker, and so on....

Whether one is friend or foe is now easily determined. Heretofore under normal life-conditions, one always knew there are people out there who disagreed with us and who in might even pose a threat in some way--real or imagined. In conventional war, for instance, the "enemy" could be identified by the uniform they wore, whether they were shooting at you or not. This is not necessary anymore. No guess work required.

Today you can identify the 'enemy" by whether a person is wearing a mask or not. How convenient.

We can all feel much safer now. Except when the people with the masks come around. Or, when the people without the masks come around. Or,...

[TomKat]

My only hunch about why the children are not getting infected is that compared to senior citizens, very few children would have gotten the yearly flu shot. I wonder what percentage of those who are dying of Covid-19 also were recipients of flu shots the past two years?

They really push the annual flu shot in nursing homes.

[Constance]

Back to the question of the children.

Why are our children so little affected by what is happening?

What is it about a childs immune system that is different to an adults?

Why should there be any difference?

What is it that we don't yet know or understand about nature?

I ask these questions purely for contemplation and they are rhetorical in their nature.

Could it be that their immune system is in better order due to less vaccines/flu shots than adults?
Chris

From the Atlantic Monthly:

Babies are born, for example, with a complete repertoire of immune cells called T cells. Every T cell has a unique receptor, and taken together, the pool of millions of T cells can recognize virtually any hypothetical pathogen. As the child begins encountering pathogens, though, their immune system winnows this diverse repertoire. It keeps the T cells involved in fighting off pathogens as a pre-stocked arsenal of “memory T cells,” should those pathogens appear again, but it begins losing the others.

This is why adults are able to mount a rapid immune response to previously encountered pathogens, but also why they might have trouble fighting a new one. Diseases such as rubella and chicken pox are also, for various reasons, more severe in adults than in children.

The pattern with seasonal flu is different, Farber says, but that may be because immunity against previous strains of the flu offer some crossover protection in adults.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/covid-19-kids/611728/

That is how it is understood currently. But what if the reasons given are not the entire reason or even the correct reasons? What if science is still limited in its understandings of why children have been largely immune?

Once again, I am not directing these questions at anyone in particular, these are just rhetorical questions...

And I'll tell you why I have all of these questions around the children...

It wasn't until around 2017 that science actually discovered that we have a lymph system in the brain. It is called the glymphatic system.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-researchers-uncover-drain-pipes-our-brains

And I recall another discovery of a part of the knee that wasn't actually known about until recently simply because we didn't have the sophisticated instruments that we now have in which to discover these things and/or, it was the process by which we have mapped the human body. (the energetic field is a whole other subject that quite possibly ties in here)

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-24826323

What else don't we currently know or understand about how the human body works?

[Mike Gorman]

Am I crazy?
Am I suicidal?

Since the very beginning of the pandemic I have shunned all TV and MSM fear porn about the killer virus.

I have three university degrees, so someone can't claim I am uneducated.

Why do I have no fear when I am out and about in the public?
Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?
Why do I ignore markers on the floor for social distancing and directions to follow in store aisles?
Why do I not cower and keep a distance as others approach me when I walk?

What's wrong with me?
Does anyone know?

I can confirm that there is nothing wrong with you, apart from a well developed critical thinking skill set.
This event, the way it has been managed screams 'hoax', the danger was over stated in that classic official manner, it was coordinated with the media.
The resultant outcomes, the phony statistics, the exaggerated numbers, the draconian restrictions, the lockdown, the closure of the western economy are totally UNPRECEDENTED
Never in the history of this society has a pandemic, an epidemic called for the complete shutdown of businesses, the obvious inconsistencies: Barbers/pubs/clubs/have to close, but shopping at a supermarket
and BLM protests are OK?
You are responding like an intelligent, analytical person, you are ignoring the panic and the emotive propaganda.
The death rate of the western world has not altered, there is no upswing in mortality rates, organic Flu seasons have greater casualty rates.
Wearing a mask has been shown to be ineffective in lowering infection rates, viruses can be spread in a variety of ways-including large distances, through eyeballs, touch-masks are bull****.
I had a similar response to you.
Many epidemiologists support the way we have responded: Dr. Sucharit Bhakti is a good example, here is an early video from April from him: msOqQCp45-0
This chap is not an isolated voice, the series called 'Uncommon Knowledge' from America: k7v2F3usNVA

You are not alone in your response, we are not responding to the fear porn because we recognise it to be a falsehood, and we organically reject it!
Well done, stay strong, we will get through this and we shall win this cultural fight, these are unprecedented times, but we have the means to deal with them.

[Mashika]

If you don't mind, i like to point something very obvious, please allow for explaining

The mask thing seems to be the entire mayor problem somehow, i have seen way more people angry about it than having to stay home for a few months

I can see why people question this one particular virus has been treated so special that it destroys lives all around the planet and why other previos viruses did not, even if those were worse

However the mask thing seems ridiculous to me

People complain about the mask, and they won't use it because it's against their rights or makes them feel "sheep" and that they will follow the rules and become compliant of a lie or directions of a government that will eventually increase those restrictions until they have full control over everyone's lives, total sheep here we go!

Yet if you don't use the mask you still pay your rent, go pay taxes, go get your driver license, have your SSN or whatever is called on your country. You are basically labeled with a number, it's just not printed on your arm but it's still there! So, a mask is causing trouble because you refuse to be a sheep by government request..

But.. you will still go and do all other things they require of you, because those are good social norms and good for you and everyone else and you are a great citizen of a country that has rules that limit you in lots of ways and demand you to comply so you are considered a "good citizen" and not a pariah?

Am I missing something here? I don't get it at all, isn't the exact same thing with the mask? What makes it a rebellious act as opposed to not paying your taxes, not obeying a cop when they tell you to stop or picking a fight with them and beat them up? Or refusing paying your rent or any other thing that goes against social norms?

Why single out the mask thing? There are way too many other things and restrictions placed on you, way more important than a dumb mask, yet that's a sign of rebellion and being free somehow?

I read the thread about building your own small house out there in the country side, and restrictions about gathering rain water and such. And how lack of electricity from a government line got some kids taken away from their parents because they relied on pure sun energy plus collecting rain water, and we are thinking/considering why a mask is a problem of freedom somehow?

I don't get it at all

[ClearWater]

Why single out the mask thing? There are way too many other things and restrictions placed on you, way more important than a dumb mask, yet that's a sign of rebellion and being free somehow?

You make a good point. It's easy to overlook things that we're accustomed to. Obviously the answer to your question could be different for each person. Part of it to me IS realizing that there are so many things I do that are impinging upon my freedom and don't make much sense, and that a stand needs to be made somewhere, even if it's over something much less important/impactful than some of the other things you mention. It's like the saying "the straw that broke the camels back". When you add in the confusion around why we're supposed to be wearing masks and whether or not they're actually effective, it becomes something that's pretty easy to question, and so it becomes a line in the sand for a lot of people.

[DaveToo]

Hey Sasha, good of you to be thinking about this important topic!

It is very important, and not trivial in any way.

The facemasks can quickly and easily be separated from all of the other examples you gave where we as citizens are compliant to governments around the world going about our daily business.

You mentioned rent, taxes and licenses etc. Of course most people dislike these financial and bureaucratic impositions. But we tolerate them because we can see some overall benefit from them.



So, a mask is causing trouble because you refuse to be a sheep by government request...

Facemask wearing is a multi-faceted and complex issue, especially in the context of COVID-19.


First there's the health issue.


The rationale for mandating facemasks to be worn in public spaces is that they will help slow the spread of the COVID virus.
But where is the proof that facemasks are effective in this regard?

The best source to go to for official pronouncements about health issues is the World Health Organization (WHO).
They are the most authoritative health organization in the world.

On February 29, 2020 as the pandemic was starting, the WHO issued a public statement about facemasks on their website saying:

"A medical mask is not required if exhibiting no symptoms, as there is no evidence that wearing a mask – of any type – protects non-sick persons. However, in some cultures, masks may be commonly worn."

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak


A month later the pandemic peaked in many countries around the world, yet there was no change in policy from the WHO regarding facemasks.

On Mar 31, 2020 the WHO re-iterated its statement about facemasks:
"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

And as recently as Jun 5, 2020 the WHO published an update to their previous statements:

"At present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID-19 and in healthy people in the community) on the effectiveness of
universal masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19."

In their Jun 5, 2020 publication the WHO lists a total of five potential benefits to wearing facemasks and eleven potential harms or disadvantages
to wearing them.

Among the benefits listed:
- making people feel they can play a role in contributing to stopping spread of the virus;
- reminding people to be compliant with other measures (e.g., hand hygiene, not touching nose and mouth).
- Moreover, the production of non-medical masks may offer a source of income for those able to manufacture
masks within their communities. Fabric masks can also be a form of cultural expression, encouraging public acceptance of protection measures in general.

The WHO admitted that wearing facemasks would make people feel they were playing a role in stopping the spread of the virus!
That is incredible.
That is a very important distinction from making people actually play a role in contributing to stopping spread of the virus;
That one word, 'FEEL', destroys their entire propaganda on this matter.


Among the potential harms/disadvantages listed:

- potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands
- potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;
- potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours;
- difficulty with communicating clearly;
- a false sense of security,
- disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

If those potential harms listed by the WHO weren't enough, there are more:

If you wear a face mask you are:

- restricting your oxygen intake
- increasing the amount of carbon dioxide you're breathing back
- susceptible to an increased amount of bacteria that accumulates from what you’re breathing
- increasing your cortisol levels that suppresses your immune system
- increasing your susceptibility to other pathogens such as: bacteria, spirochetes, microplasma, yeast, fungi, parasites
- stressing your body out
- making your body weaker
- making yourself hypoxic


So the question that needs to be asked is, "Why are most of the governments of the world mandating the use of facemasks now, despite the WHO and other doctors declaring they not only yield no potential health benefit but can actually harm your health?

It doesn't take much imagination to come up with several reasons:

Facemasks
- are meant to condition the populace into a state of compliance
- lead to a state of perpetual fear
- are a form of asphyxiation
- are meant to muzzle the populace, figuratively and literally, to prevent natural discourse.
- are a form of psychological intimidation
- are a form of social barrier, to prevent exchanges of ideas and camaraderie
- cover facial expression, preventing people from detecting emotions of others.
- are dehumanizing
- are degrading
- are demeaning
- condition people into a form of submission
- are a form of psychological humiliation
- create psychological insecurities
- make people self-conscious
- lead to alienation in society
- will lower the populations' immunity and leave them vulnerable to a second wave of the pandemic



Acquiescing to wearing a facemask is a slippery slope.
It is akin to the acquiescence referred to in the prose of the famous German pastor Martin Niemöller:

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[Mashika]

Hey Sasha, good of you to be thinking about this important topic!

It is very important, and not trivial in any way.

The facemasks can quickly and easily be separated from all of the other examples you gave where we as citizens are compliant to governments around the world going about our daily business.

You mentioned rent, taxes and licenses etc. Of course most people dislike these financial and bureaucratic impositions. But we tolerate them because we can see some overall benefit from them.



So, a mask is causing trouble because you refuse to be a sheep by government request...

Facemask wearing is a multi-faceted and complex issue, especially in the context of COVID-19.


First there's the health issue.


The rationale for mandating facemasks to be worn in public spaces is that they will help slow the spread of the COVID virus.
But where is the proof that facemasks are effective in this regard?

The best source to go to for official pronouncements about health issues is the World Health Organization (WHO).
They are the most authoritative health organization in the world.

On February 29, 2020 as the pandemic was starting, the WHO issued a public statement about facemasks on their website saying:

"A medical mask is not required if exhibiting no symptoms, as there is no evidence that wearing a mask – of any type – protects non-sick persons. However, in some cultures, masks may be commonly worn."

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak


A month later the pandemic peaked in many countries around the world, yet there was no change in policy from the WHO regarding facemasks.

On Mar 31, 2020 the WHO re-iterated its statement about facemasks:
"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

And as recently as Jun 5, 2020 the WHO published an update to their previous statements:

"At present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID-19 and in healthy people in the community) on the effectiveness of
universal masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19."

In their Jun 5, 2020 publication the WHO lists a total of five potential benefits to wearing facemasks and eleven potential harms or disadvantages
to wearing them.

Among the benefits listed:
- making people feel they can play a role in contributing to stopping spread of the virus;
- reminding people to be compliant with other measures (e.g., hand hygiene, not touching nose and mouth).
- Moreover, the production of non-medical masks may offer a source of income for those able to manufacture
masks within their communities. Fabric masks can also be a form of cultural expression, encouraging public acceptance of protection measures in general.

The WHO admitted that wearing facemasks would make people feel they were playing a role in stopping the spread of the virus!
That is incredible.
That is a very important distinction from making people actually play a role in contributing to stopping spread of the virus;
That one word, 'FEEL', destroys their entire propaganda on this matter.


Among the potential harms/disadvantages listed:

- potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands
- potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;
- potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours;
- difficulty with communicating clearly;
- a false sense of security,
- disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

If those potential harms listed by the WHO weren't enough, there are more:

If you wear a face mask you are:

- restricting your oxygen intake
- increasing the amount of carbon dioxide you're breathing back
- susceptible to an increased amount of bacteria that accumulates from what you’re breathing
- increasing your cortisol levels that suppresses your immune system
- increasing your susceptibility to other pathogens such as: bacteria, spirochetes, microplasma, yeast, fungi, parasites
- stressing your body out
- making your body weaker
- making yourself hypoxic


So the question that needs to be asked is, "Why are most of the governments of the world mandating the use of facemasks now, despite the WHO and other doctors declaring they not only yield no potential health benefit but can actually harm your health?

It doesn't take much imagination to come up with several reasons:

Facemasks
- are meant to condition the populace into a state of compliance
- lead to a state of perpetual fear
- are a form of asphyxiation
- are meant to muzzle the populace, figuratively and literally, to prevent natural discourse.
- are a form of psychological intimidation
- are a form of social barrier, to prevent exchanges of ideas and camaraderie
- cover facial expression, preventing people from detecting emotions of others.
- are dehumanizing
- are degrading
- are demeaning
- condition people into a form of submission
- are a form of psychological humiliation
- create psychological insecurities
- make people self-conscious
- lead to alienation in society
- will lower the populations' immunity and leave them vulnerable to a second wave of the pandemic



Acquiescing to wearing a facemask is a slippery slope.
It is akin to the acquiescence referred to in the prose of the famous German pastor Martin Niemöller:

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

That quote at the end applies to a lot of things, but it has zero effect on my views. Because you don't understand a lot about me. For instance, if that thing were to happen, i would very very very likely be one on the side of "they" LOL

The understanding of how things happen in the world is extremely different from person to person, we have different experiences in life, i have seen things you will never seen, i hope, and you have seen things i will probably never see

But there are aspects in life where you should attempt to change your mind and really try to see things form the other side, such as this..

You read Mr Bill's post about the mask here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1367015&viewfull=1#post1367015

But as ClearWater pointed out here, your point was addressed on the video, you talked about something that indicates you did not watch the video?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1367021&viewfull=1#post1367021

That kind of invalidates your views, since you have allowed yourself to not have all the facts or information, and relied only on the partial information you had up to that point. Would have been better if you had disproved the points made on the video, but you dismissed in the wrong way and kept going on your own point of view. What about the video? You replied to me right now with partial facts, just as you did on that other thread


You said this



It doesn't take much imagination to come up with several reasons:

But science is not about imagination, it's about facts. Imagination can allow you to write a story about interstellar travel, doesn't mean that stuff exists (yet) it's just possibly based on real science but not real yet, it's just imagination working

You are playing into a situation where you figure out all possible dangers or limitations or conspiracies around a mask (possible)

How does that match facts proved by tests? I mean real tests in labs, if you don't trust the ones made by someone else you could make your own

How have you verified what you believe? Have you tested and got results that prove you right?

Let's say you have a gun, and a needle, and you firmly believe you can shoot a bullet through the needle's head

So you place the needle somewhere and shoot and miss

Then you say one of two things:

1. I missed but that doesn't prove the bullet can't go through the head, i need to get better at shooting and record the video so i can prove it really went through
2. I did not miss, it went through, it's just that you didn't see it because of how fast it was

One is a scientific method the one is not, so why chose the one that allows to keep going without real, factual evidence of something?

[DaveToo]

But there are aspects in life where you should attempt to change your mind and really try to see things form the other side, such as this..

You read Mr Bill's post about the mask here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1367015&viewfull=1#post1367015

But as ClearWater pointed out here, your point was addressed on the video, you talked about something that indicates you did not watch the video?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1367021&viewfull=1#post1367021

That kind of invalidates your views, since you have allowed yourself to not have all the facts or information, and relied only on the partial information you had up to that point. Would have been better if you had disproved the points made on the video, but you dismissed in the wrong way and kept going on your own point of view. What about the video? You replied to me right now with partial facts, just as you did on that other thread


I have an open mind to science. I have a science background in fact.
As I told Bill in another thread, for every video he recommends I view, I can recommend another that he view.
That won't help us.

He recommended I watch a video in another thread, which I did. I asked him a question about it, but he never responded to my question.
That's unfortunate. I let it go.




You said this



It doesn't take much imagination to come up with several reasons:

But science is not about imagination, it's about facts. Imagination can allow you to write a story about interstellar travel, doesn't mean that stuff exists (yet) it's just possibly based on real science but not real yet, it's just imagination working

You are playing into a situation where you figure out all possible dangers or limitations or conspiracies around a mask (possible)

How does that match facts proved by tests? I mean real tests in labs, if you don't trust the ones made by someone else you could make your own

How have you verified what you believe? Have you tested and got results that prove you right?

You will need to get more specific Sasha about what you are saying. Imagination BTW plays a vital role in science!

And BTW, with my science background I am very familiar with what goes on in labs, with tests.
I've performed many myself.

[Mashika]

But there are aspects in life where you should attempt to change your mind and really try to see things form the other side, such as this..

You read Mr Bill's post about the mask here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1367015&viewfull=1#post1367015

But as ClearWater pointed out here, your point was addressed on the video, you talked about something that indicates you did not watch the video?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110761-Do-you-wear-a-face-mask&p=1367021&viewfull=1#post1367021

That kind of invalidates your views, since you have allowed yourself to not have all the facts or information, and relied only on the partial information you had up to that point. Would have been better if you had disproved the points made on the video, but you dismissed in the wrong way and kept going on your own point of view. What about the video? You replied to me right now with partial facts, just as you did on that other thread


I have an open mind to science. I have a science background in fact.
As I told Bill in another thread, for every video he recommends I view, I can recommend another that he view.
That won't help us.

He recommended I watch a video in another thread, which I did. I asked him a question about it, but he never responded to my question.
That's unfortunate. I let it go.




You said this



It doesn't take much imagination to come up with several reasons:

But science is not about imagination, it's about facts. Imagination can allow you to write a story about interstellar travel, doesn't mean that stuff exists (yet) it's just possibly based on real science but not real yet, it's just imagination working

You are playing into a situation where you figure out all possible dangers or limitations or conspiracies around a mask (possible)

How does that match facts proved by tests? I mean real tests in labs, if you don't trust the ones made by someone else you could make your own

How have you verified what you believe? Have you tested and got results that prove you right?

You will need to get more specific Sasha about what you are saying. Imagination BTW plays a vital role in science!

And BTW, with my science background I am very familiar with what goes on in labs, with tests.
I've performed many myself.

Have you read my signature here?

"If life situation unclear, keep pressing your hand grip"

That's something i got from my bootcamp times on the Russian army, way before i even was able to join and way before i got ill and was rejected because i would have died if i had joined, because of the training

It means something very basic, but our instructor, requested us to get one of of this

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=43907&d=1594970583

You know how is that used? Is not to save your life, of course, it's a mistery for most everyone in the world, because they were not part of my team so for everyone else it's a tool to workout, for me it has a completely different purpose :)

So, i would like to request you to think about why i think that if your life situation is unclear, you must keep pressing the hand grip. It's pure imagination from your side, it could mean anything really, because you can interpret it in any possible way your brain or previous experience tells you so

But please post here what you think that means, all posibilities, and then i will tell you what the reasoning behind it was/is. It will make a lot of sense once i explain it

Once we figure that out, we can continue talking about the mask. It's all about perception and how you use tools and what you have around, by the way

[Tintin]

My only hunch about why the children are not getting infected is that compared to senior citizens, very few children would have gotten the yearly flu shot. I wonder what percentage of those who are dying of Covid-19 also were recipients of flu shots the past two years?

That's got some legs, for sure :thumbsup:

Okay, I have two hunches but whether they are provable or not I couldn't be certain.

Firstly: the function of the thymus gland (https://www.endocrineweb.com/endocrinology/overview-thymus) and here's an excerpt:


Before birth and throughout childhood, the thymus is instrumental in the production and maturation of T-lymphocytes or T cells, a specific type of white blood cell that protects the body from certain threats, including viruses and infections. The thymus produces and secretes thymosin, a hormone necessary for T cell development and production.

The thymus is special in that, unlike most organs, it is at its largest in children. Once you reach puberty, the thymus starts to slowly shrink and become replaced by fat. By age 75, the thymus is little more than fatty tissue. Fortunately, the thymus produces all of your T cells by the time you reach puberty.

Secondly: (salivary SigA (https://salimetrics.com/analyte/salivary-secretory-immunoglobulin-a/)) which first came to my attention a couple of years ago or so from a very interesting discussion that Jeffrey Mishlove had with Jeanne Achterberg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Achterberg). Apparently children, and especially so the very young, are able to stimulate this in the healing process and SigA seems to aid in curing, or providing some sort of immunity to respiratory illness. It's really quite fascinating.

TMyi4QOr6qU

What we of course seem to be closer to understanding now is that Covid-19 isn't a virus that is causing solely pneumonic complications as it seems to be compromising blood cells, but, could the two above hunches help to explain why children seem to be relatively immune to Covid-19?

They may be worth considering.

_____________

Library note: this interview along with a great many others is available here (http://avalonlibrary.net/?dir=Jeffrey_Mishlove/Thinking_Allowed_programme_interviews_%28Various%29), for anyone interested

[XelNaga]

Oh no.
This study confirms there is something wrong with me! :(

https://www.fastcompany.com/90527258/people-who-social-distance-may-be-more-intelligent-study-says

"“We propose that this [failure to social distance] may be associated with the limitation in one’s mental capacity to simultaneously retain multiple pieces of information in working memory,”

That study indeed confirms something about people like you, me, and many others: we are not sheep :Party:

[Gwin Ru]

Here is another one that's truly chilling: Antibodies dwindle down (https://www.bitchute.com/video/zU4jR4nkrSy3/) to none after a few months... [...]
From more recent studies and analyses, it seems there is hope to corner that bug and get its name, rank and matricule No, not from antibodies but from T-cells:

Covid-19 & SARS immunity discovered in recovered patients - also in over 50% of subjects who were never infected (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-scientists-uncover-sars-cov-specific-cell-immunity.html)

Duke-NUS Medical School
Medical Xpress (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-scientists-uncover-sars-cov-specific-cell-immunity.html)
Thu, 16 Jul 2020 12:00 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s28/576456/large/cell.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s28/576456/full/cell.jpg)
© CC0 Public Domain


The T cells, along with antibodies, are an integral part of the human immune response against viral infections due to their ability to directly target and kill infected cells. A Singapore study has uncovered the presence of virus-specific T cell immunity in people who recovered from COVID-19 and SARS, as well as some healthy study subjects who had never been infected by either virus.

The study by scientists from Duke-NUS Medical School, in close collaboration with the National University of Singapore's (NUS) Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, (YLLSM), Singapore General Hospital (SGH) and National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID) was published in Nature. The findings suggest infection and exposure to coronaviruses induces long-lasting memory T cells, which could help in the management of the current pandemic and in vaccine development against COVID-19.

The team tested subjects who recovered from COVID-19 and found the presence of SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells in all of them, which suggests that T cells play an important role in this infection. Importantly, the team showed that patients who recovered from SARS 17 years ago after the 2003 outbreak, still possess virus-specific memory T cells and displayed cross-immunity to SARS-CoV-2.
"Our team also tested uninfected healthy individuals and found SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells in more than 50 percent of them. This could be due to cross-reactive immunity obtained from exposure to other coronaviruses, such as those causing the common cold, or presently unknown animal coronaviruses. It is important to understand if this could explain why some individuals are able to better control the infection," said Professor Antonio Bertoletti, from Duke-NUS' Emerging Infectious Diseases (EID) programme, who is the corresponding author of this study.
Associate Professor Tan Yee Joo from the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at NUS Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine and Joint Senior Principal Investigator, Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology, A*STAR added,
"We have also initiated follow-up studies on the COVID-19 recovered patients, to determine if their immunity as shown in their T cells persists over an extended period of time. This is very important for vaccine development (https://medicalxpress.com/tags/vaccine+development/) and to answer the question about reinfection."

"While there have been many studies about SARS-CoV-2, there is still a lot we don't understand about the virus yet. What we do know is that T cells play an important role in the immune response against viral infections (https://medicalxpress.com/tags/viral+infections/) and should be assessed for their role in combating SARS-CoV-2, which has affected many people worldwide. Hopefully, our discovery will bring us a step closer to creating an effective vaccine," said Associate Professor Jenny Low, Senior Consultant, Department of Infectious Diseases, SGH, and Duke-NUS' EID programme.

"NCID was heartened by the tremendous support we received from many previous SARS patients for this study. Their contributions, 17 years after they were originally infected, helped us understand mechanisms for lasting immunity to SARS-like viruses, and their implications for developing better vaccines against COVID-19 and related viruses," said Dr Mark Chen I-Cheng, Head of the NCID Research Office.
The team will be conducting a larger study of exposed, uninfected subjects to examine whether T cells can protect against COVID-19 infection or alter the course of infection. They will also be exploring the potential therapeutic use of SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells (https://medicalxpress.com/tags/cells/).
More information: Nina Le Bert et al. SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell immunity in cases of COVID-19 and SARS, and uninfected controls, Nature (2020). DOI: 10.1038/s41586-020-2550-z (http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/s41586-020-2550-z) Journal information: Nature (https://medicalxpress.com/journals/nature/) Related:

Everything You Think You Know About Coronavirus... (https://www.sott.net/article/436327-Everything-You-Think-You-Know-About-Coronavirus#)



Compelling Evidence That SARS-CoV-2 Was Man-Made (https://www.sott.net/previews/tipe/317396-Title?new_art=true#current_icon)



And, from Stockholm:

CwQpg62Kflg


•Jul 10, 2020

https://yt3.ggpht.com/a/AATXAJx1sFpQqfSeHbBxSSSoWxfnTBwNPaLInfzhluZe=s48-c-k-c0xffffffff-no-rj-mo (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMxiv15iK_MFayY_3fU9loQ) UnHerd (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMxiv15iK_MFayY_3fU9loQ)

Freddie Sayers talks to Swedish doctor Soo Aleman about Covid-19.

We hear a lot about Sweden’s experience of Covid-19, with the New York Times declaring this week that that country is now “the world’s cautionary tale.”

But what’s it really like on the ground?

Dr Soo Aleman has been both on the front lines of the Covid-19 epidemic as a senior physician at Stockholm’s leading Karolinska hospital, and on the research side, as Assistant Professor at the Karolinska Institute and one of a group that last week published new data around T-cell immunity.

We talked to her about the findings of that study, and how it matches what she is seeing in her hospital.

Link to the Karolinska Institute T Cell study: https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-... (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.ki.se%2Fimmunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown&v=CwQpg62Kflg&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbnVjN2xZQXdyanl5UzRnbUhTb09ndDcyYzBBUXxBQ3Jtc0trMzcxSkJ1N0N5VHJJQ0hhUVFFU0Zob2lY MGVJMl92TnlKbUhYbEhBTm9RZWR2SkhZVjFGZjVoS1dkV21YV294cnZtcEtIUGRjVjVNNEN3dnJENXh5Q3k0RDdRd2ZOd2pPY0JU aGp1c1FfTDNfVENXTQ%3D%3D&event=video_description)

Key quotes:
“Intensive care units are getting empty, the wards are getting empty, we are really seeing a decrease — and that despite that people are really loosening up. The beaches are crowded, social distancing is not kept very well ... but still the numbers are really decreasing. That means that something else is happening – we are actually getting closer to herd immunity. I can’t really see another reason.”

“I can’t say if the Swedish approach was right or wrong – I think we can say that in one or two years when we are looking back. You have to look at the mortality over the whole period.”

“I don’t think that we have more new cases, I think we are just detecting more cases”

“We found that if you have a mild case you can be negative for antibodies afterwards … in those almost all of them had strong T-cell activity. This study says that there are cases that you can have a strong T-cell response even though you have not had antibodies, meaning that you have encountered the virus and built up immunity.”

[Bill Ryan]

Here is another one that's truly chilling: Antibodies dwindle down (https://www.bitchute.com/video/zU4jR4nkrSy3/) to none after a few months... [...]
From more recent studies and analyses, it seems there is hope to corner that bug and get its name, rank and matricule No, not from antibodies but from T-cells:Yep, this is new research, and might be very important.

Super-simple summary: T-cells are part of a different immune mechanism, and the cells have long, long memories...even over decades. They'll attack and take out anything that's similar (not identical) to a pathogen they've seen before.

So someone's reaction to SARS-CoV-2 may at least partially depend on their medical history. (But do note: this doesn't appear to explain how come children seem to be quite unaffected.)

Here's Chris Martenson's presentation about this, from last night. It's not easy to follow (because it's very technical), but few could explain it all better than he does. I wasn't even going to post this, but was greatly encouraged by Gwin Ru's post above. :highfive:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2q_QcAZG8

[AutumnW]

Back to the question of the children.

Why are our children so little affected by what is happening?

What is it about a childs immune system that is different to an adults?

Why should there be any difference?

What is it that we don't yet know or understand about nature?

I ask these questions purely for contemplation and they are rhetorical in their nature.

Could it be that their immune system is in better order due to less vaccines/flu shots than adults?
Chris

From the Atlantic Monthly:

Babies are born, for example, with a complete repertoire of immune cells called T cells. Every T cell has a unique receptor, and taken together, the pool of millions of T cells can recognize virtually any hypothetical pathogen. As the child begins encountering pathogens, though, their immune system winnows this diverse repertoire. It keeps the T cells involved in fighting off pathogens as a pre-stocked arsenal of “memory T cells,” should those pathogens appear again, but it begins losing the others.

This is why adults are able to mount a rapid immune response to previously encountered pathogens, but also why they might have trouble fighting a new one. Diseases such as rubella and chicken pox are also, for various reasons, more severe in adults than in children.

The pattern with seasonal flu is different, Farber says, but that may be because immunity against previous strains of the flu offer some crossover protection in adults.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/covid-19-kids/611728/

That is how it is understood currently. But what if the reasons given are not the entire reason or even the correct reasons? What if science is still limited in its understandings of why children have been largely immune?

Once again, I am not directing these questions at anyone in particular, these are just rhetorical questions...

And I'll tell you why I have all of these questions around the children...

It wasn't until around 2017 that science actually discovered that we have a lymph system in the brain. It is called the glymphatic system.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-researchers-uncover-drain-pipes-our-brains

And I recall another discovery of a part of the knee that wasn't actually known about until recently simply because we didn't have the sophisticated instruments that we now have in which to discover these things and/or, it was the process by which we have mapped the human body. (the energetic field is a whole other subject that quite possibly ties in here)

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-24826323

What else don't we currently know or understand about how the human body works?

Science is the best tool we have for categorizing, measuring and quantifying. It is also subject to change, whereas opinions are stubborn, particularly if they are rooted in wish fulfillment, fantasy. Even more so if they are the result of paranoid thinking.

Science is weakest when it comes to anything that can't be duplicated in a lab, like UFO phenomenon, etc...

It seems to me though that TCell research conclusions, at this juncture, (though possibly not complete) are reliable. More may be discovered in the future, but the chance that those discoveries will completely contradict, what is currently understood, is fairly low.

[TomKat]

I follow Chris Martenson closely. His video channel is here (https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos). I've watched every one of his 150 videos since the third week of January. When it comes to the science, and the statistics, and all the various reports from reliable medical sources, I'd take his research over that of everyone else combined.

Martenson is highly critical of the media, the WHO, the Fed, and the HCQ studies that have been designed to fail. He's also personally certain the virus has been engineered (and he explains why, in great detail). He's one of the brightest people on YouTube.


I checked out Martenson's youtube channel, and he's relying on the mainstream media for his information.
No, he's not. He cites scientific papers frequently. His videos are a digest of the most significant reports, including many that are easy for most to miss. And he's highly skeptical of the mainstream media's role in distorting or falsifying information.

Has Chris Martenson admitted there is no pandemic? If not, then how critical a thinker is he?

[Mike Gorman]

My only hunch about why the children are not getting infected is that compared to senior citizens, very few children would have gotten the yearly flu shot. I wonder what percentage of those who are dying of Covid-19 also were recipients of flu shots the past two years?

They really push the annual flu shot in nursing homes.

Another example of the duality in play: We are the benevolent custodians of the infirm, aged and vulnerable, therefore whatever we do is for their own benefit-we don't want our elderly/sick people to be made even more infirm! This is the chilling rationalisation which underpins the official narratives, the Flu shot is known to be ineffective, and extremely limited; how can you make a vaccine for a virus which changes so rapidly, that mutates in such a short span of time! This is without even mentioning the pollutants and toxins which are found in vaccines these days. 'Mass euthanasia' is not an appealing label, but this is what it is.

[DaveToo]

Have you read my signature here?

"If life situation unclear, keep pressing your hand grip"


... So, i would like to request you to think about why i think that if your life situation is unclear, you must keep pressing the hand grip. It's pure imagination from your side, it could mean anything really, because you can interpret it in any possible way your brain or previous experience tells you so

But please post here what you think that means, all posibilities, and then i will tell you what the reasoning behind it was/is. It will make a lot of sense once i explain it

Once we figure that out, we can continue talking about the mask. It's all about perception and how you use tools and what you have around, by the way

I look forward to hearing about the reasons you press the hand grip Sasha. :)

I actually have one at home but mine is cheaper than yours, it's made out of plastic with a metal spring.

I like to use it occasionally, but not when my life is unclear.
I use it for therapeutical reasons.

I had tennis elbow years ago and from time to time my elbow acts up and becomes injured again.
So I feel I can gradually get it back into shape by doing some hand grip squeezes.
But I must do it slowly with few repetitions to start. As my elbow begins to heal I can increase the
repetitions.

I never thought about using the hand grip for psychological reasons.
I have no idea at all why the hand grip can be used for other reasons.

So I'm intrigued to learn about what you have in mind when you use yours. :)

[Constance]

Science is the best tool we have for categorizing, measuring and quantifying. It is also subject to change, whereas opinions are stubborn, particularly if they are rooted in wish fulfillment, fantasy. Even more so if they are the result of paranoid thinking.

Science is weakest when it comes to anything that can't be duplicated in a lab, like UFO phenomenon, etc...

It seems to me though that TCell research conclusions, at this juncture, (though possibly not complete) are reliable. More may be discovered in the future, but the chance that those discoveries will completely contradict, what is currently understood, is fairly low.

From my perspective, there is the opportunity to consider the whole being - the whole spectrum. If we would like to be truly effective at understanding what is really going on, we might want to consider all twelve aspects that influence our overall state of being. Here they are. :flower:


Spiritual
Physical
Chemical
Biological
Mental/emotional
Dietary/nutritional
Biochemical
Neurological
Bioenergetic
Sociological
Environmental
Material

In this video, you can see the Dodecangle (https://youtu.be/TtP6ThjjPhw?list=PLIECLSm9q5pi3HPtmiHfQAQ_atmo--7se&t=683) representing the holographic and fractal aspects of our being. Each aspect affects every other aspect of our being. It shows every single influence in a persons life.

The number of arrows pointing at each aspect is 132. Scientists are at best currently addressing three of the aspects of the dodecangle in relation to our being. That equates to 30 out of 132 arrows. If we consider that as a percentage of the whole, scientists are only 4.54% effective at understanding the whole picture.

In addition to this, we need to consider that confirmation biases could potentially have a role to play in how scientists around the world are making their findings. No one is immune to confirmation bias.

I've shared something regarding why and how this might be possible in the How you make decisions thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110875-How-you-really-make-decisions&p=1354368&viewfull=1#post1354368).

There is a Confirmation Bias Experiment beginning at 30:30 minutes and concluding at 39:45. that might be of interest to people. :flower:

[Bill Ryan]

I follow Chris Martenson closely. His video channel is here (https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos). I've watched every one of his 150 videos since the third week of January. When it comes to the science, and the statistics, and all the various reports from reliable medical sources, I'd take his research over that of everyone else combined.

Martenson is highly critical of the media, the WHO, the Fed, and the HCQ studies that have been designed to fail. He's also personally certain the virus has been engineered (and he explains why, in great detail). He's one of the brightest people on YouTube.


I checked out Martenson's youtube channel, and he's relying on the mainstream media for his information.
No, he's not. He cites scientific papers frequently. His videos are a digest of the most significant reports, including many that are easy for most to miss. And he's highly skeptical of the mainstream media's role in distorting or falsifying information.

Has Chris Martenson admitted there is no pandemic? If not, then how critical a thinker is he?Jeez, Tom. Watch his videos before you criticize.

[Valerie Villars]

Tintin, something within me "clicks" regarding T cells playing a crucial role in fighting viruses. Being linked to metabolism, it would make sense that children, with their normally higher metabolism, would not be as susceptible to the Covid Virus.

It would also explain why the morbidly obese, elderly and diabetic would be especially susceptible; their metabolism is slower.

[TomKat]

I follow Chris Martenson closely. His video channel is here (https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos). I've watched every one of his 150 videos since the third week of January. When it comes to the science, and the statistics, and all the various reports from reliable medical sources, I'd take his research over that of everyone else combined.

Martenson is highly critical of the media, the WHO, the Fed, and the HCQ studies that have been designed to fail. He's also personally certain the virus has been engineered (and he explains why, in great detail). He's one of the brightest people on YouTube.


I checked out Martenson's youtube channel, and he's relying on the mainstream media for his information.
No, he's not. He cites scientific papers frequently. His videos are a digest of the most significant reports, including many that are easy for most to miss. And he's highly skeptical of the mainstream media's role in distorting or falsifying information.

Has Chris Martenson admitted there is no pandemic? If not, then how critical a thinker is he?Jeez, Tom. Watch his videos before you criticize.

I tend to be suspicious of pandemic discussion that hasn't been banned from youtube. But I'm heartened to hear he has at least been defunded. You're right, he is an independent thinker, especially on the economy. Here's his latest:

la2ByRNi9HY

[Mashika]

Have you read my signature here?

"If life situation unclear, keep pressing your hand grip"


... So, i would like to request you to think about why i think that if your life situation is unclear, you must keep pressing the hand grip. It's pure imagination from your side, it could mean anything really, because you can interpret it in any possible way your brain or previous experience tells you so

But please post here what you think that means, all posibilities, and then i will tell you what the reasoning behind it was/is. It will make a lot of sense once i explain it

Once we figure that out, we can continue talking about the mask. It's all about perception and how you use tools and what you have around, by the way

I look forward to hearing about the reasons you press the hand grip Sasha. :)

I actually have one at home but mine is cheaper than yours, it's made out of plastic with a metal spring.

I like to use it occasionally, but not when my life is unclear.
I use it for therapeutical reasons.

I had tennis elbow years ago and from time to time my elbow acts up and becomes injured again.
So I feel I can gradually get it back into shape by doing some hand grip squeezes.
But I must do it slowly with few repetitions to start. As my elbow begins to heal I can increase the
repetitions.

I never thought about using the hand grip for psychological reasons.
I have no idea at all why the hand grip can be used for other reasons.

So I'm intrigued to learn about what you have in mind when you use yours. :)

The hand grip, i think there's a lot of stuff going on there, but here's the basics of it, while in training or on real combat situation when things get very difficult. Hope i don't forget any points but here are the ones i have very clear in my mind right now

1. You never must forget or leave it behind
2. Unless you are shooting at someone and while in full control of yourself while in a terrible situation, keep pressing, like following your heartbeat
3. If you notice you are not able to follow your hear beat, something's wrong with you. You may have been hit or harmed but you don't feel it because of the shock or adrenaline
4. Always make sure other people who depend on you, your subordinates, can see you are good pressing it correctly and not getting weak, because they depend on you, and if you seem weak or go completely unable to press it, they know something's very bad
5. Pressing it and allow people to see you are good, ensures everyone can still trust you and feel strong. There's a lot of bad things happening when your leader goes down, like lose of confidence, confusion, mistakes and then people die
6. If someone is going down, like losing their mind, scared, trembling or such, lend them the hand grip and stay as much as possible with them and ask them to focus on it. It works great, if you press it along with them and forget what's going on out there, it focus the mind up to some point, so they don't completely break

That's mostly it, it's a great tool, that you pick up and use for things is was not meant to be used, but can change a lot of things out there in the wild, while your lives may be in extreme danger

It is meant to be used in a way that gives strength, leads and shows how you are strong and cool, and they can trust you, it's all about leadership and all working towards a same goal, unified and strong, like an army or team should be

Now about the mask, the way the North America and western countries are handling it, it's complete opposite of that hand grip custom

They refuse to show if they can deal with the mask, they don't want to! No leadership, no strange, it's like i'm afraid to show i felt for it if turns out it wasn't real. Or self entitlement, or selfishness. Just like if i would say "how dumb why would i waste my time pressing this hand grip for others? Maybe i can get shot because of focusing on that and losing sight of the enemy"

No people under someone who refuses to wear a mask will know what to do if that 'non-mask' leader person dies with covid because they got infected. And honestly that's a hilarious situation, but i understand the sadness other may feel. It's everyone choices what leads them to it, like getting scared and looking up trying to see if the enemy is closer to you and then getting shot in the head, but if it could be avoided, then why not?

So, in the North America and other western countries, the enemy is basically the same citizens, because they have divided themselves. The strong ones (or at least they believe they are) look down on the weakest ones, and do nothing for them, there's no union, there's no team, no common strength or goal, even they wish the other die and make fun of them when it happens.

A union of states that is complete out of union, basically, no respect no support no love but just division

The mask is the hand grip, no one knows how to use it anymore. They forgot what it meant to be all work towards a common goal, which is what made countries like the US great very long ago, now everyone seems to be infected but not by covid, more like by "i do what i want for me and no one else"

When i go to the streets, i do carry a mask, but i don't have it on my face unless i meet someone or have to go into a store, then once i'm out i take it away, so it's just like a small amount of time, but it shows i am not afraid of anything because all those risks you pointed out. I can live through them risk on my own health to protect other people, i can lead if needed, and they can see i'm not afraid of a sacrifice myself, and that i can be strong.

Then they do the same because it empowers them to join and fight all along, no matter what, even if you die on the way, if it helps someone else, then who cares

That's not happening anymore in your country, or the US or most any American country, as far as i can see

I though about not writing this at all, but i guess i had to. Please understand i don't mean to offend or criticize badly, i just think/write like this

Lastly, just one more comment to point out something i learned from my grand father. "There's a difference between rebellion and selfishness, if you are caring for someone and you are told to hit the ground and you do the opposite, your person in care may die, because you thought about your rebellion act instead of the other person's life"

I'm not sure if that makes much sense, but it just means, "if you mess up, someone else will die because of you"

So:



Why do I see no need to wear a face mask?

Because you are looking up for yourself, and other people looking out for themselves, but there's no intersection between your needs and their needs

[Bill Ryan]

Because you are looking up for yourself, and other people looking out for themselves, but there's no intersection between your needs and their needsThat's extremely well put.

:highfive:

[greybeard]

Peter Hitchens: Excessive coronavirus fear has completely changed the country
Columnist Peter Hitchens has criticised the government for instilling “excessive fear” over coronavirus among the public, saying it will deter people from wanting to work.



Speaking with talkRADIO’s Mike Graham, he said: “They deliberately stirred up excessive fear at the beginning, which has completely changed the nature of the country.

“What we had before was a country that was used to the disciplines of work, used to the disciplines of commuting…that link has now been broken.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6bmHmZfw1U

[DaveToo]

It's hard to believe, but seven months into this plandemic and the MSM are still
pulling out all the stops on the fear porn agenda.

Check out the wall-to-wall Covid coverage at this Canadian news site:

Canada-Covid-Fear-Porn-Jul-21
https://i.postimg.cc/jnwdnLp2/Canada-Covid-Fear-Porn-Jul-21.jpg (https://postimg.cc/jnwdnLp2)

The key strategy recommended at Event 201 for a successful pandemic was "Flood the Zone".
And the MSM took that recommendation and ran with it!

My educated guess is that all of 2020 will be a wipe-out.
24/7 fear porn until at least Christmas.

[DaveToo]

Hi Sasha,

There is a lot of interesting stuff in your 'hand grip' post!

I just wanted to let you and others know that I have things I'd like to say about your last post in the 'Beirut' thread.

I can't reply to it however as I have been banned from the thread because of what I wrote in it.

It is unfortunate, but it's something beyond my control.