The 45 Goals of Communism

[Bill Ryan]

This deserves its own thread. Here are The 45 Goals of Communism. From this book, written by an FBI agent tasked to infiltrate the American Communist Party in the 1950s.


W. Cleon Skousen - The Naked Communist
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/W.%20Cleon%20Skousen%20-%20The%20Naked%20Communist.pdf

Read through the list and see for yourself which have largely succeeded, or are succeeding, so far. It's pretty scary.



U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
Do away with all loyalty oaths.
Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. – Democrat Party captured.
Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
Gain control of all student newspapers.
Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use “united force” to solve economic, political or social problems.
Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self- government.
Internationalize the Panama Canal.
Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

[EFO]

This deserves its own thread. Here are The 45 Goals of Communism. From this book, written by an FBI agent tasked to infiltrate the American Communist Party in the 1950s.


W. Cleon Skousen - The Naked Communist
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/W.%20Cleon%20Skousen%20-%20The%20Naked%20Communist.pdf

Read through the list and see for yourself which have largely succeeded, or are succeeding, so far. It's pretty scary.



U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
Do away with all loyalty oaths.
Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. – Democrat Party captured.
Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
Gain control of all student newspapers.
Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use “united force” to solve economic, political or social problems.
Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self- government.
Internationalize the Panama Canal.
Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.


Expecting the "wave"...

[silvanelf]

This deserves its own thread. Here are The 45 Goals of Communism. From this book, written by an FBI agent tasked to infiltrate the American Communist Party in the 1950s.


W. Cleon Skousen - The Naked Communist
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/W.%20Cleon%20Skousen%20-%20The%20Naked%20Communist.pdf

Read through the list and see for yourself which have largely succeeded, or are succeeding, so far. It's pretty scary.


Bill, you are promoting the Red Scare -- I think that you don't know what you are doing here.

[Bill Ryan]

This deserves its own thread. Here are The 45 Goals of Communism. From this book, written by an FBI agent tasked to infiltrate the American Communist Party in the 1950s.



W. Cleon Skousen - The Naked Communist
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/W.%20Cleon%20Skousen%20-%20The%20Naked%20Communist.pdf


Read through the list and see for yourself which have largely succeeded, or are succeeding, so far. It's pretty scary.


Bill, you are promoting the Red Scare -- I think that you don't know what you are doing here.Well — just read through the 45 goals, one by one. Then, of course, you can decide for yourself.

[silvanelf]

Bill, you are promoting the Red Scare -- I think that you don't know what you are doing here.

Well — just read through the 45 goals, one by one. Then, of course, you can decide for yourself.

I've read through the "45 goals" before I posted my comment. I found the list utterly ridiculous, that's the reason why I called it "promoting the Red Scare."


... and see for yourself which have largely succeeded, or are succeeding,

That's a manipulative statement and you should know it. In other words, you are using a "loaded question" -- you failed to question the cause of these political and social changes. Many of them have nothing to do with any alleged "communist infiltration."

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Sorry silvanelf I don't get it. Are you saying the things on this list aren't happening, or are you saying that even if they are happening it isn't necessarily a bad thing?

[edina]

I've considered this list from time to time over the years, I didn't have a copy of the book, thanks Bill for sharing it.

I think one way to consider the information is to step back from the labels and to consider the actions as part of a larger plan being implemented under the label of communism. (Or any other label, for that matter.)

It fits in with the progressive, gradual implementation of Fabian Society (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20421-Background-of-George-Orwell--Eric-Arthur-Blair-&p=1364719&viewfull=1#post1364719) ideas, and I think it goes further back.
George Orwell's classics, Animal Farm (http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/George%20Orwell%20-%20Animal%20Farm%20and%20related%20readings.pdf), and 1984 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20421-Background-of-George-Orwell--Eric-Arthur-Blair-), and Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Aldous%20Huxley%20-%20Brave%20New%20World.pdf) are fictionalized accounts of what a world would look like when these goals have been implemented.

I have a couple of books by W Cleon Skousen about the US Constitution. I've been thinking about rereading them lately and of putting some time aside to deepen my understanding of the US Constitution and the system of "separation of powers".

I remember being surprised about how long the people who founded this system thought about, talked about, and developed the ideas implemented, it was about 25 years before it was set down in ink, well before the Declaration of Independence. They had all come out of the period of the bloody wars between monarchs. They took a long historical view of government systems and noted the pattern of a sort of pendulum swing between anarchy and tyranny and sought to find a way to bring that pendulum to a balanced point. They also incorporated ideas from the Iroquois Federation's form of government into the mix.

I came across an idea a few years ago of how the Pope created Islam as a way to counter the Protestant Revolution, which undercut the Pope's (Vatican's) power over the people.

With that idea in mind, I've been wondering of a potential relationship of the how Marx was tasked to come up with ideas and a potential system of government to counter the republican form with it's system of separation of powers that happened here in the US. This took power away from the more tyrannical leaning elements. I'm still weighing in on this idea and haven't decided what I fully think on the matter. I'm wondering if this goes further back than Marx.

Skousen wrote the book, The Naked Communist, back in 1958. And that was during a time that the pathway to implementing these goals was through Soviet Communism. Since then, Russia has rejected that model. He was speaking to the people of that time. It's helpful to keep that context in mind, I think.

That said, these 45 Goals seem to have continued to be incrementally and progressively implemented over time. And that list looks to be nearly completed. (Not just here in the US, but globally, as well.)

It's curious to me, too, that many of the goals have nothing to do with the ideals of communism that is often sold to the public, but rather set the conditions for a totalitarian technocratic form of government. (Or as another person we know described as "technological fiefdom". Thinking of how the Agenda 21/30/40 goals align with these goals re: move people to cities, and shift from nation states back to, cities, ... mega-cities.)

I think this may be why so many of these forms of government destroy the history of people when they takeover. Without that context people cannot see the gradual process that led to eventual outcome.

(Note added: I also want to add that this could be another touchy topic, and thank you for the courage to raise it.)

[Praxis]

What year is it?

If one thinks that we are living in the communist dominated world, then I have a bridge to sell them.

I think it is illuminating to understand the basis of the United States Intelligence Community

Page 50 of the Church Committee Report Book 1.
"By the mid-1950s covert action operations were no longer an ad hoc
response to specific threats. They had become an institutional part of
the "protracted conflict" with the Soviet Union and Communism. In
September 1954, a Top Secret report on CIA covert activities, prepared
in connection with the second Hoover Commission, was submitted to
President Eisenhower. The introduction to that report is enlightening
for what it said about how covert operations were viewed at that time,
as well as the rationale for them.
As long as it remains national policy, another important
requirement is an aggressive covert psychological, political
and paramilitary organization more effective, more unique,
and if necessary, more ruthless than that employed by the
enemy. No one should be permitted to stand in the way of the
prompt, efficient, and secure accomplishment of this mission.
It is now clear that we are facing an implacable enemy
whose avowed objective is world domination by whatever
means and at whatever cost. There are no rules in such a game.
Hitherto acceptable norms of human conduct do not apply.
If the U.S. is to survive, longstanding American concepts of
"fair play" must be reconsidered. We must develop effective
espionage and counterespionage services and must learn to
subvert, sabotage, and destroy our enemies by more clever,
more sophisticated, and more effective methods than those
used against us. It may become necessary that the American
people be made acquainted with, understand and support this
fundamentally repugnant philosophy."


We are living in the Red Scare Addled brain of CIA officers like Allen Dulles.
Consider Bill, you are pushing the exact same agenda as John Foster and Allen Dulles.

Anytime I find myself having the same opinion as Allen Dulles, I stop and seriously consider what I am doing.

Talking about communism now is like talking about witches After the Salem witch trials were long in the past.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Yes. I second the promotion of the Red Scare, as it was put to us here.

No communist China social credit scores for us, thanks.

[Mike]

kJKJM36lMTE


This has been posted on the forum several times already, but certainly belongs in this thread imo. It's about the slow and insidious infiltration of Soviet era ideology into the US.

Nearly everything he says is going to happen, happens. It's astounding

[T Smith]

Bill, you are promoting the Red Scare -- I think that you don't know what you are doing here.


What year is it?

We are living in the Red Scare Addled brain of CIA officers like Allen Dulles.
Consider Bill, you are pushing the exact same agenda as John Foster and Allen Dulles.
Talking about communism now is like talking about witches After the Salem witch trials were long in the past.

Most who embrace the left are no longer "scared" of the Red Scare; the propaganda of today is 100% opposite of what Dulles and CIA propagated in the 50s... as many politicians (and intelligence objectives) in the US openly promote (https://www.macleans.ca/politics/the-rise-of-the-radical-left-in-americas-democratic-party/) a communist-like revolution.

These sentiments were alive and well in the 50s but mostly underground, as people in media and politics were afraid to air their beliefs for fear of the backlash and reprisal you mention. But the tide has changed (https://www.rollcall.com/2019/07/26/pelosis-problem-with-socialism-is-bigger-than-a-4-person-squad/). The USA of today looks nothing like the USA in the 50s….

[happyuk]

Bill, you are promoting the Red Scare -- I think that you don't know what you are doing here.

Well — just read through the 45 goals, one by one. Then, of course, you can decide for yourself.

I've read through the "45 goals" before I posted my comment. I found the list utterly ridiculous, that's the reason why I called it "promoting the Red Scare."


... and see for yourself which have largely succeeded, or are succeeding,

That's a manipulative statement and you should know it. In other words, you are using a "loaded question" -- you failed to question the cause of these political and social changes. Many of them have nothing to do with any alleged "communist infiltration."

Well do you care to explain the specific reasons why you merely think this is promoting a supposed red scare rather than answer along the lines of 'because I said so.'

That's a serious statement by the way. I would genuinely like to hear your counter-arguments. Just one example would suffice.

As a starter for ten, we could take the promotion of repulsive and vicious artwork as just one of the means of demoralizing a population. I could list plenty of such examples where this has happened in the UK alone. Take the statue of a bisected pregnant woman on a Devon beach as just one example:

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/five-years-verity-how-damien-597690

This does nothing to uplift and inspire citizens, it serves only to crush them psychologically. These statues, which require a significant sum of public money to erect are not built for fun. There is an agenda behind them.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Personally I have little good to say about communism, even an ideal version of communism, as a model of governance, past or present. It isn't compatible with my way of life, the way of life I want to live. And that's my choice.

That said, I have my doubts about an actual communist take-over. As Edina said, there are other agencies involved here, other powers, operating under the guise of communism.

There is no doubt in my mind that insidious forces do exist, and have long existed in the shadowy background, which have been working to undermine western democracy, social cohesion, personal freedoms, spiritual truth, etc - working against them in every conceivable way as insinuated by those 45 bullet points. The goal, basically, is the dissolution of the sovereign individual and the creation of a one world government, a one world religion, a one world currency, a one world language, and so forth. However I suspect the nature of this conspiracy is less aligned with political communism as we understand it, and more with some sort of dark, secret society agenda, one deeply satanic in essence.

[silvanelf]

Sorry silvanelf I don't get it. Are you saying the things on this list aren't happening, or are you saying that even if they are happening it isn't necessarily a bad thing?

Neither of them. I'm saying that many of them are happening, but on different grounds.

The numbers 4., 5. and 6. from the list above:

Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

Financial institutions like IMF, World Bank or USAID are used by the US to manipulate and plunder the economies of other countries.

If anyone believes that any foreign aid to Russia or China is due to a "communist infiltration" of the US, then this person is very gullible.


From the 1980s onward, one of the major aims of American foreign policy has been to make the world safer for US investment bankers. That might seem like an exaggeration until you look at the priorities of American economic policy as well as the actions of US-dominated international institutions like the World Bank and the IMF. The World Bank, though its International Finance Corporations, pushed emerging economies to set up capital markets. The posture was that more open markets were always better.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/05/americas-use-finance-foreign-policy-tool-backfired.html

[silvanelf]

I came across an idea a few years ago of how the Pope created Islam as a way to counter the Protestant Revolution, which undercut the Pope's (Vatican's) power over the people.

The Protestant Reformation began in 1517. On the other hand Islam originated in 622.

You have a discrepancy by about 900 years.

[edina]

I came across an idea a few years ago of how the Pope created Islam as a way to counter the Protestant Revolution, which undercut the Pope's (Vatican's) power over the people.

The Protestant Reformation began in 1517. On the other hand Islam originated in 622.

You have a discrepancy by about 900 years.

Thank you silvanelf, it was in keeping with the idea itself of how one aspect of what is happening in the world often plays into other aspects of what is happening in the world that drives events in ways we don't often expect that I meant to express.

I have been considering the potential relationship of the development of Marxism as a counter to the development of the idea of "a sovereign public" and "separation of powers" in republicanism, in the context of larger and longer global contests that preceded both.

You can tell I'm still in process of formulating my thinking about this, because I'm not succinct in how I'm expressing it. I'm still researching and mulling over the ideas.

Technically, my statement over-simplified the idea, and made the concept as expressed inaccurate. I read it years ago and it's been percolating in my mind since then. I went back to the original place where I read the idea and it was in context of a longer history, dating back to the Phoenicians.

Another example would be some of the ideas expressed in Greg Hallet's books (http://avalonlibrary.net/?search=hallet) where Tavistock played a hidden but significant role in the rise of Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, WW1, WW2. In considering Hallet's ideas, I wondered if others, such as Mao, Pol Pot, even Xi Xinping had also been to London and perhaps influenced by Tavistock in ways similar to Hitler, and Stalin, as described by Hallet.

Another example would come from a reading of the 100 Year Marathon (https://thehundredyearmarathon.com/), where over time it became apparent that China felt humiliated by the West in the Boxer Rebellion. This evidently influences their thinking in current foreign policy. The Chinese have a long memory, and have even reached centuries back into their own traditions to determine their strategy for relations with the US.

It seems to me that there is this longer, broader range of events that often drive current events and influence actions in ways that we may not always understand. I'm willing to look outside the box a bit, and give this longer range view consideration.

I'm not certain that this slow progressively gradual implementation of the 45 goals that Bill posted is really about nations, or even about ideologies.

I went looking for the original place I read the idea (https://philosophyofmetrics.com/the-war-between-the-worlds-land-owners/), the author, JC Collins, takes a very long view of these events.


The Crown is not the British Empire. The British Royal Family are used by the Crown, much like other nations and people are used. It is my conclusion that the Crown is the reconstituted Phoenician Empire and its system of laws and city state governance structure. The Crown owns the vast majority of the world’s surface land and the people who dwell upon that land. All must be a part of the Beast system in order to participate in commerce and the purchase of goods.

Sounds familiar, right?

There is also building evidence that the Catholic Church was used to create the religion of Islam. It is probable that Islam was the tool used by the Crown (Phoenicians) to control the whole of the Middle East and its Arab peoples. Even the Seafaring People, who the Phoenicians used to invade and wage war against its enemies, evolved into the Jewish people of the modern world. The Hebrews, who absorbed much of the Babylonian religion, wandered without a homeland and were incorporated into the Phoenician forces as the mysteries Seafaring People of the Mediterranean.

Both the United Nations and the Catholic Church have called for there to be a new international monetary system, and the call for a world government is getting louder. The Pope is even working towards merging all religions into one and is openly promoting the tenets of Islam and worldwide liberalism and multiculturalism.

I think we may see action on that last line quite soon. I'm less concerned about religions and more about how religion is used to control people, and how it is often used to obscure our spiritual nature or place it under a religious control.

JC Collins goes on to discuss the Protestant Reformation in relationship to the Crown control system.


The Protestant Reformation was an attempt by the forces of right-mindedness to counter the Crown and its growing institutions in the world. The Crown went to work on a counter-reformation and began a centuries long campaign against Russia and those who supported right-minded action based on integrity and honour. This war continues today, and until the Russian land mass is successfully conquered there will always be a beachhead from which the battles can be fought.

All of the religions of the world suppress spiritual evolution. The Eastern religions still maintain some semblance of spiritual purpose, but the importing of these religions into the Western world is slowly corrupting them.

He offers a bit more data supporting his thesis about the relationship of the Protestant Revolution as a counter to the Crown control through the Catholic Church in this post (https://philosophyofmetrics.com/bloody-mary-and-the-catholic-church/).

To me, it's just another set of parameters to consider when looking at current events.

I feel humanity has a choice to make.

I do think now, not later, is the time to give this serious thought.

This is what I think Bill's OP is about. I didn't read him as promoting anything, as he has been accused of by several people. Rather that Bill presented something written 60+ years ago as goals to be accomplished which has become quite evident today, as having been accomplished, or near accomplishment. And to what end?

That in itself warrants serious consideration.

I, for one, would not want to see the nuclear family destroyed. I'm quite concerned about the normalization of porn leading to the normalization of pedophilia. I don't agree with the implementation of those goals in our culture. I have serious concerns about our schools, academia and media.

[Mike]

Communism/Marxism/Socialism is here in the states, and that's the important thing to note. I suppose on one level it doesn't necessarily matter where it came from. Whether it's arrived by way of the Soviet Union is secondary. I started a kind of woo-woo'ish thread suggesting it had a Satanic origin. Who knows?

It's here. And that's the point. Some likely won't believe that until it's way too late. I continue to marvel at their cluenessness.

It's making a hard, aggressive push. I would love to poo-pah it and pretend it had no chance of concretizing. I would love nothing more than to have that atitutde. But in the face of the unrelenting facts, it's impossible. It's bloody mainstream now, like T.Smith said. I don't know how anyone could possibly miss it!:)

[Baby Steps]

The brief interludes in history when society is not controlled by corrupt autocratic bullies are rare, the west is just losing one of these interludes. It has been going for just long enough for the public to become complacent and forget that democracy is vulnerable and needs vigilance and occasionally may have to be fought for.

The people who wrote the us constitution were trying to build in as many protections and checks and balances as they could, but corporate power is by-passing this. The aims of corporate power and the authoritarians who have infiltrated the left are congruent.

[Satori]

The brief interludes in history when society is not controlled by corrupt autocratic bullies are rare, the west is just losing one of these interludes. It has been going for just long enough for the public to become complacent and forget that democracy is vulnerable and needs vigilance and occasionally may have to be fought for.

The people who wrote the us constitution were trying to build in as many protections and checks and balances as they could, but corporate power is by-passing this. The aims of corporate power and the authoritarians who have infiltrated the left are congruent.

I would only make one change to this post if I had written it. I would replace the word “democracy” with “sovereignty.”

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

It appears to me that the methods of Communism/Marxism are being used to facilitate the destruction of the capitalistic economic organization. Small business and the middle class is being effectively demolished in America. It does not mean we are headed for communism, because the "true believers" will be removed when they have served their purpose. Meanwhile, Progressive Agenda presents an expedient way to clear out many of the "old" ways of thinking. It was effective in Russia and China. Once maximum chaos has been achieved, the new Global Technocracy will step forward to restore a New World Order. Meet the new boss.... same as the old boss.

[rgray222]

Communism has always tried to remove patriotism and religion form society. The United States was founded on the principle of individual rights and private property. Communism opposes both of those concepts, sacrificing individualism and independence for the group. This is exactly why the protesters in Portland were burning bibles and American flags for the last few weeks almost every night. Here is a fact check (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/portland-protesters-burn-bibles/) on the subject. Race protests are being used to disguise a larger agenda which is now becoming clear to "some" Americans and people around the world.

The Communist Party USA states in the first sentence of their website that: "The Road to Socialism USA is the Program of the Communist Party USA." You can check it out on their site at https://cpusa.org/party_info/party-program/

Here is an article (https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/de-blasio-checkpoints-10k-fines-for-travelers-to-break-quarantine/) that talks about Mayor DeBlasio instituting checkpoints all around New York City and enacting $10,000 fines for people coming in from states with high COVID rates. If you can't see the Communist undertones in this action then you never will. Keep in mind that Mayor DeBlasio was so enamored with Communism that he honeymooned in Cuba. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-de-blasio-forced-to-defend-his-honeymoon-to-cuba-on-the-view

Universities have become a fertile training ground for young Communists. Here is a Bloomberg article from 2012 that lays is out pretty succinctly. - Harvard-Trained Communists (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-11-08/harvard-trained-communists-vie-for-influence-as-party-gathers) This is probably the biggest threat to the free world and many are just beginning to wake up to what is actually happening.

I have a great deal of reluctance to speak badly about Black Lives Matter. The vast majority of people around the world want to see and end to racism so saying anything negative about BLM seems counterintuitive. That said there is no other way to say it, Black Lives Matter holds to a strict Marxist/Communist ideology - https://www.socialistalternative.org/marxism-fight-black-freedom/black-lives-matter-marxism/

Anyone that thinks removing history, statutes, or defunding the police has anything to do with race has not even begun to connect the dots that lead directly to Socialism which then fastracks to Communism. For Communism to work the United States must fail.

The 2020 election will probably be the most meaningful election in most of our lifetimes. I will go out on a limb and make a prediction. The results will be an absolute mess because of vote by mail and alleged foreign interference. The results will be contested by whoever loses and it will take much time and possibly a court decision to declare a winner. The results will determine if Socialism and Communism move forward or go on hold for another time. Even after the results have clearly been decided I would anticipate a great deal of civil unrest.

[Agape]

It’s one of those “far right” or is it “far left” type of documents containing extreme ideological programming and bullet points that could be compared today to extremism of Islamic radicals or some pervert religious cult.

Normal people do not think that way in any country I know of but I’m not sure about North Korea. Maybe they really hope in something this dark.

Not sortable philosophically even if you go back to Cain and Abel.

From reality perspective there’s never been any “communism” in human history except for small communes. China itself is an Empire and always been an empire trying to capitalize global market.
The same can be said about Russia and the rest.

Ideal communism if it existed would not be able to “fight capitalism” because the only way anyone can “fight a capitalist” would be either to serve them selflessly or take over their capital.
All world governments of today are historical descendants of past kingdoms and other similar power structures of human history, with ruling hierarchy, territorial claims and defense system among else,
who cares they each call their policies by different names ?

What do you call Mr Putin by definition or designation ?😀 Rhetorically that is, it does not trouble my mind but are those people Emperors, Oligarchs, KGB agents working with FBI ( we are in 2020 ), posterity patriarchs of communism or Orthodox Church coverts, demigods for some people , even angels and bodhisattvas of compassion ?

No one can sort this out because “communism” is not valid philosophical doctrine.
Moreover, the moment “communists” want to take over “capitalists” and capitalize on other people’s profits, know how and lives are deceptive capitalists.

The whole idea was probably invented to take over other people en mass and without fight the first place by offering them “equal shares” ( on future earth).

Not different from ideas behind many religious cults.

Since the takeover obviously did not go so well and most people refused “equal shares” the next step was using a force and threat.
Then the whole deception of “communism” broke down by its own weapons.


The topic seems to disregard the rest of demographic problems we are facing and variability of social dynamics.
Some problems are almost non-existent in countries and territories containing few humans who can freely capitalize on natural resources vs densely inhabited populations of today’s world and people living tucked in box like housing using communal services everyday. Every such an anthill whether in the US, China or India eventually requires development of infrastructures and macro management.

If that’s not “capitalist enough”, the wise king would probably advice people to disperse, return to the resources in countryside, decentralize governance and build their own local management accordingly.


If people still insist on living by millions in organized hubs, there’s demand for macro management synchronized with micro management and everyone there have to subsidize on personal space, that means property and resources
before they “earn enough” to be able to leave the system.


Todays “communal services” aren’t necessarily form of approval to some nonsensical faith rather than response to fastly evolving demographics.

Do I believe in “living like that”? No. I can’t breathe in it so I’ve opted out early in my life while I could.


Bottom line, if you “believe in humans” to be the highest intelligence operating in the Universe, you’re probably ...lost apostle of Roman Catholicism converted to Darwinian scientist fighting for the truth of no God with the rest of your brethren who refused to give in so easily.
The world is full of lost souls of some kind and people fighting some ancient clans.


But that’s a joke

🧐

[T Smith]

Communism has always tried to remove patriotism and religion form society. The United States was founded on the principle of individual rights and private property. Communism opposes both of those concepts, sacrificing individualism and independence for the group. This is exactly why the protesters in Portland were burning bibles and American flags for the last few weeks almost every night. Here is a fact check (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/portland-protesters-burn-bibles/) on the subject. Race protests are being used to disguise a larger agenda which is now becoming clear to "some" Americans and people around the world.

The Communist Party USA states in the first sentence of their website that: "The Road to Socialism USA is the Program of the Communist Party USA." You can check it out on their site at https://cpusa.org/party_info/party-program/

Here is an article (https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/de-blasio-checkpoints-10k-fines-for-travelers-to-break-quarantine/) that talks about Mayor DeBlasio instituting checkpoints all around New York City and enacting $10,000 fines for people coming in from states with high COVID rates. If you can't see the Communist undertones in this action then you never will. Keep in mind that Mayor DeBlasio was so enamored with Communism that he honeymooned in Cuba. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-de-blasio-forced-to-defend-his-honeymoon-to-cuba-on-the-view

Universities have become a fertile training ground for young Communists. Here is a Bloomberg article from 2012 that lays is out pretty succinctly. - Harvard-Trained Communists (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-11-08/harvard-trained-communists-vie-for-influence-as-party-gathers) This is probably the biggest threat to the free world and many are just beginning to wake up to what is actually happening.

I have a great deal of reluctance to speak badly about Black Lives Matter. The vast majority of people around the world want to see and end to racism so saying anything negative about BLM seems counterintuitive. That said there is no other way to say it, Black Lives Matter holds to a strict Marxist/Communist ideology - https://www.socialistalternative.org/marxism-fight-black-freedom/black-lives-matter-marxism/

Anyone that thinks removing history, statutes, or defunding the police has anything to do with race has not even begun to connect the dots that lead directly to Socialism which then fastracks to Communism. For Communism to work the United States must fail.

The 2020 election will probably be the most meaningful election in most of our lifetimes. I will go out on a limb and make a prediction. The results will be an absolute mess because of vote by mail and alleged foreign interference. The results will be contested by whoever loses and it will take much time and possibly a court decision to declare a winner. The results will determine if Socialism and Communism move forward or go on hold for another time. Even after the results have clearly been decided I would anticipate a great deal of civil unrest.

Bumping this post. Every single word of it is spot on target.

[Moz]

To me it seems a rather basic title for a place/thread were we can discuss the world takeover that has been going on for the last 200 or 300 years.
It seems more like a CNN headline than anything else.
I also believe that Bill is not clear here.

[Agape]

Post Scriptum: Bill , why you don’t say straight away “my project needs more donations”?
Payed membership ?

I am sorry if that’s off topic but I’ve seen this good number of times in my life and people turning lights off because funds are missing.

Further apologies for not being able to contribute financially here as myself in situation that quite frail from any of your perspectives.

Sure you can’t care less about individual whereabouts or advise people in other parts of the world to return to somewhere that did not exist the first place :)


But if it’s “all about money” as usually, the larger community will take care of you since you took care of them.


We all are through difficult times now, how difficult is upon everyone’s considerations but hope that people can understand and hit the forum donation button.


I hope I’m dead soonly if that cheers you up



🐘

[spade]

Communism/Marxism/Socialism is here in the states, and that's the important thing to note. I suppose on one level it doesn't necessarily matter where it came from. Whether it's arrived by way of the Soviet Union is secondary. I started a kind of woo-woo'ish thread suggesting it had a Satanic origin. Who knows?

It's here. And that's the point. Some likely won't believe that until it's way too late. I continue to marvel at their cluenessness.

It's making a hard, aggressive push. I would love to poo-pah it and pretend it had no chance of concretizing. I would love nothing more than to have that atitutde. But in the face of the unrelenting facts, it's impossible. It's bloody mainstream now, like T.Smith said. I don't know how anyone could possibly miss it!:)

origins...
http://whale.to/c/marx_and_satan.html

[Bill Ryan]

To me it seems a rather basic title for a place/thread were we can discuss the world takeover that has been going on for the last 200 or 300 years.
It seems more like a CNN headline than anything else.
I also believe that Bill is not clear here.Well, that's okay! :)

(But I have to say, I'm actually quite surprised there's not a great deal of agreement about the clarity on display here.)


Post Scriptum: Bill , why you don’t say straight away “my project needs more donations”?
Payed membership ?

What the heck has that got to do with this thread...?! You've been here for 10 years. You should know me by now.


I don't do that, and
That's never, ever, ever, why I post, share or do anything.

:focus:

[edina]

Communism/Marxism/Socialism is here in the states, and that's the important thing to note. I suppose on one level it doesn't necessarily matter where it came from. Whether it's arrived by way of the Soviet Union is secondary. I started a kind of woo-woo'ish thread suggesting it had a Satanic origin. Who knows?

It's here. And that's the point. Some likely won't believe that until it's way too late. I continue to marvel at their cluenessness.

It's making a hard, aggressive push. I would love to poo-pah it and pretend it had no chance of concretizing. I would love nothing more than to have that atitutde. But in the face of the unrelenting facts, it's impossible. It's bloody mainstream now, like T.Smith said. I don't know how anyone could possibly miss it!:)

origins...
http://whale.to/c/marx_and_satan.html

From the site spade linked above:


'Marx's chief aim was the destruction of religion. The good of the workers was only a pretense....Communism is collective demon- possession".---Richard Wurmbrand

In thinking about this, maybe it was to replace religion, as a way to control the masses, while destroying spiritual freedom?

Marx was asked to write the about this philosophy, he was financially supported while writing, and he is also related to the Rothschild family, if Miles Mathis is correct (http://mileswmathis.com/marx.pdf). Miles supports his claims with links to genealogical sites.


[A reader wrote in to send me to Wikitree (http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Cohen-2391), which is less scrubbed than Geni regarding Marx. Geni scrubs Marx's genealogy before we can make a link to the Rothschilds, but Wikitree doesn't. Wikitree makes it easy to see that Karl Marx's grandmother Nanette Barent-Cohen was the first cousin of Henriette Barent-Cohen, who married Nathan Mayer Rothschild. Wow. This indicates it wasn't just the Phillips and Pressburgs bankrolling the Communism project, it was the even deeper pockets of Rothschild.]

We also have curious links through Marx's wife Jenny: Spending summer and autumn 1836 in Trier, Marx became more serious about his studies and his life. He became engaged to Jenny von Westphalen, an educated baroness of the Prussian ruling class who had known Marx since childhood. Having broken off her engagement with a young aristocrat to be with Marx, their relationship was socially controversial due to the differences between their ethnic and class origins, but Marx befriended her father, a liberal aristocrat, Ludwig von Westphalen, and later dedicated his doctoral thesis to him.

No one ever asks how Marx managed to meet and wed an educated baroness of the Prussian ruling class.

I question the premise of Marxism. It's odd to me that it was created/supported by the very elite that are supposedly to be to replaced in the socialist system.

Yesterday, I copied the 45 goal list (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111690-The-45-Goals-of-Communism&p=1370708&viewfull=1#post1370708) into a document and made notes on each one.

Goal 32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
From my notes: First thoughts

Centralized control is in my opinion a big reason why the concept of socialism consistently fails. Centralized control becomes centralized power. The very issue that most people think they are revolting against is abuse of power by the few over the many. This is one reason why I think the ideology is a ruse, bait to entrap people into a totalitarian system.

The "balance of powers" addresses the issue and concern of centralized power and the abuses that ensue.

When I consider the idea of socialism/communism I often ask myself, what are the skillsets and knowledge base that the "people" need to have in order to pull it off?

The goal of centralized control and power needs to be thrown out the window and into the trash heap!

The ruse into technocracy is that since humans can't do it, then we ought to let algorithms do it. But then, who writes the algorithms?

A curious side note: W Cleon Skousen wrote another book in the 70's entitled, "The Naked Capitalist" :)


Based on the book Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley, which claimed that top Western merchant bankers, industrialists and related institutions were behind the rise of communism and fascism around the world.

I've downloaded both Skousen books and have them in my queue to read.

[edina]

When I consider the idea of socialism/communism I often ask myself, what are the skillsets and knowledge base that the "people" need to have in order to pull it off?


Another thought occurs to me.

The American Constitution, in the way that seems intended to work, laid out a form of self-government that allows enough centralized power to function as a cohesive whole, as nation, while still keeping the base of power local and in the hands of the people.

As we move into space, how would this concept work on a planetary level?
An interplanetary level?
And with other potential civilizations?

The present form of United Nations doesn't work because it doesn't hold itself accountable to the people, at local levels.

And there is still the consideration of what skill-sets and knowledge base do people need to self-govern as a free (sovereign) civilization among interstellar civilizations?

[Mashika]

Communism has always tried to remove patriotism and religion form society. The United States was founded on the principle of individual rights and private property. Communism opposes both of those concepts, sacrificing individualism and independence for the group. This is exactly why the protesters in Portland were burning bibles and American flags for the last few weeks almost every night. Here is a fact check (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/portland-protesters-burn-bibles/) on the subject. Race protests are being used to disguise a larger agenda which is now becoming clear to "some" Americans and people around the world.

The Communist Party USA states in the first sentence of their website that: "The Road to Socialism USA is the Program of the Communist Party USA." You can check it out on their site at https://cpusa.org/party_info/party-program/

Here is an article (https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/de-blasio-checkpoints-10k-fines-for-travelers-to-break-quarantine/) that talks about Mayor DeBlasio instituting checkpoints all around New York City and enacting $10,000 fines for people coming in from states with high COVID rates. If you can't see the Communist undertones in this action then you never will. Keep in mind that Mayor DeBlasio was so enamored with Communism that he honeymooned in Cuba. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-de-blasio-forced-to-defend-his-honeymoon-to-cuba-on-the-view

Universities have become a fertile training ground for young Communists. Here is a Bloomberg article from 2012 that lays is out pretty succinctly. - Harvard-Trained Communists (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-11-08/harvard-trained-communists-vie-for-influence-as-party-gathers) This is probably the biggest threat to the free world and many are just beginning to wake up to what is actually happening.

I have a great deal of reluctance to speak badly about Black Lives Matter. The vast majority of people around the world want to see and end to racism so saying anything negative about BLM seems counterintuitive. That said there is no other way to say it, Black Lives Matter holds to a strict Marxist/Communist ideology - https://www.socialistalternative.org/marxism-fight-black-freedom/black-lives-matter-marxism/

Anyone that thinks removing history, statutes, or defunding the police has anything to do with race has not even begun to connect the dots that lead directly to Socialism which then fastracks to Communism. For Communism to work the United States must fail.

The 2020 election will probably be the most meaningful election in most of our lifetimes. I will go out on a limb and make a prediction. The results will be an absolute mess because of vote by mail and alleged foreign interference. The results will be contested by whoever loses and it will take much time and possibly a court decision to declare a winner. The results will determine if Socialism and Communism move forward or go on hold for another time. Even after the results have clearly been decided I would anticipate a great deal of civil unrest.

There is a lot of misconceptions about what "communism" really means, which leads to very funny views,

For example, most people think the USSR was a single country, and that it represents communism, and not a Union of States, or "United States", just as many other countries still are today, including the United States of America, or the United States of Mexico, or the United States of Brazil

If an order came from the Kremlin, is no different than if an order comes from the White House today (like Trump signing an executive order) but of course "one is evil the other is not" :P



The United States was founded on the principle of individual rights and private property. Communism opposes both of those concepts

Should look at China, are people unable to have private property?

The USA has for a long time implemented socialist programs, welfare and medical health and others i believe. It had always that aspect going on, the UK also has a health care program that works in similar ways



Universities have become a fertile training ground for young Communists

This happens from within, it happens even on already Communists countries like on the USSR in the 40's and later on, except on there it was a different flavor of Communism and even negating all the existing practices of the government at that time, which lead to students getting killed or repressed, not much different than in the US, it's all just a game of words and "it's good unless it's against us"



Communism has always tried to remove patriotism and religion form society

Not quite, some people attempted in the USSR to do the remove religion thing and failed, but patriotism? Even Trump wanted so bad to copy the yearly VD celebration from Russia, it takes a lot of patriotism to continue doing that after so many years. Perhaps you meant Nationalism? But even then the US has already been doing nationalism for decades and has plans to continue for many more

In a way, or in several actually, the US is just so similar to the USSR, a union of states, each with their own laws but still obeying the master in Russia, or Washington

Each state having their own government, the White House threatening governors who don't follow the global plan, or what the president wants to happen

When the soviets took control over the USSR, they took care of basically erasing from history the other parties, just like in the US there are Democrats and Republicans, and they both want to make the other disappear, over the span of years of course so it doesn't look bad. Just like Lenin and Stalin did with the Mensheviks to allow the Bolsheviks full control of the union :P

It's all the same stuff, just all muddied by erasing facts or simply rewriting them to fit the current trends

[norman]

If you find this communism topic anything like as fascinating as I do, have a look at this older 'Communism' thread that Gemma13 started a few weeks ago, too.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111437-Communism&p=1365327&viewfull=1#post1365327

[rgray222]

I don't disagree with what you have said but I am not sure of the point you are trying to make. I see that you are from Russia so I feel you could bring a different and interesting perspective to the conversation. My feeling is that in theory socialism and communism sound great but in reality, it never works out well because it is administered by humans and we are all flawed. Capitalism sounds great in theory but once again humans get in the way of it fulfilling its full potential with greed, mismanagement and government regulations. There never has been a "pure" communist, capitalist, or socialist country, it is something that people holding those ideologies strive for but will never attain. A bit like playing a musical instrument, you will never achieve your best until you take your last breath in this life.

If you support communism I would love to hear why and how you think it would benefit mankind. I look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks
R



Communism has always tried to remove patriotism and religion form society. The United States was founded on the principle of individual rights and private property. Communism opposes both of those concepts, sacrificing individualism and independence for the group. This is exactly why the protesters in Portland were burning bibles and American flags for the last few weeks almost every night. Here is a fact check (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/portland-protesters-burn-bibles/) on the subject. Race protests are being used to disguise a larger agenda which is now becoming clear to "some" Americans and people around the world.

The Communist Party USA states in the first sentence of their website that: "The Road to Socialism USA is the Program of the Communist Party USA." You can check it out on their site at https://cpusa.org/party_info/party-program/

Here is an article (https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/de-blasio-checkpoints-10k-fines-for-travelers-to-break-quarantine/) that talks about Mayor DeBlasio instituting checkpoints all around New York City and enacting $10,000 fines for people coming in from states with high COVID rates. If you can't see the Communist undertones in this action then you never will. Keep in mind that Mayor DeBlasio was so enamored with Communism that he honeymooned in Cuba. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-de-blasio-forced-to-defend-his-honeymoon-to-cuba-on-the-view

Universities have become a fertile training ground for young Communists. Here is a Bloomberg article from 2012 that lays is out pretty succinctly. - Harvard-Trained Communists (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-11-08/harvard-trained-communists-vie-for-influence-as-party-gathers) This is probably the biggest threat to the free world and many are just beginning to wake up to what is actually happening.

I have a great deal of reluctance to speak badly about Black Lives Matter. The vast majority of people around the world want to see and end to racism so saying anything negative about BLM seems counterintuitive. That said there is no other way to say it, Black Lives Matter holds to a strict Marxist/Communist ideology - https://www.socialistalternative.org/marxism-fight-black-freedom/black-lives-matter-marxism/

Anyone that thinks removing history, statutes, or defunding the police has anything to do with race has not even begun to connect the dots that lead directly to Socialism which then fastracks to Communism. For Communism to work the United States must fail.

The 2020 election will probably be the most meaningful election in most of our lifetimes. I will go out on a limb and make a prediction. The results will be an absolute mess because of vote by mail and alleged foreign interference. The results will be contested by whoever loses and it will take much time and possibly a court decision to declare a winner. The results will determine if Socialism and Communism move forward or go on hold for another time. Even after the results have clearly been decided I would anticipate a great deal of civil unrest.

There is a lot of misconceptions about what "communism" really means, which leads to very funny views,

For example, most people think the USSR was a single country, and that it represents communism, and not a Union of States, or "United States", just as many other countries still are today, including the United States of America, or the United States of Mexico, or the United States of Brazil

If an order came from the Kremlin, is no different than if an order comes from the White House today (like Trump signing an executive order) but of course "one is evil the other is not" :P



The United States was founded on the principle of individual rights and private property. Communism opposes both of those concepts

Should look at China, are people unable to have private property?

The USA has for a long time implemented socialist programs, welfare and medical health and others i believe. It had always that aspect going on, the UK also has a health care program that works in similar ways



Universities have become a fertile training ground for young Communists

This happens from within, it happens even on already Communists countries like on the USSR in the 40's and later on, except on there it was a different flavor of Communism and even negating all the existing practices of the government at that time, which lead to students getting killed or repressed, not much different than in the US, it's all just a game of words and "it's good unless it's against us"



Communism has always tried to remove patriotism and religion form society

Not quite, some people attempted in the USSR to do that, but patriotism? Even Trump wanted so bad to copy the yearly VD celebration from Russia, it takes a lot of patriotism to continue doing that after so many years. Perhaps you meant Nationalism? But even then the US has already been doing nationalism for decades and has plans to continue for many more

[Moz]

[QUOTE=Moz;1370868]To me it seems a rather basic title for a place/thread were we can discuss the world takeover that has been going on for the last 200 or 300 years.
It seems more like a CNN headline than anything else.
I also believe that Bill is not clear here.Well, that's okay! :)

(But I have to say, I'm actually quite surprised there's not a great deal of agreement about the clarity on display here.)

Bill, I guesd no one at Avalon believes that things just happen.
My point was that using communism/dictatorships/fascism/religion in the title narrows the subject, when I belive that the issue has been used for so long.
Using only one specific name fuels a certain worldview that I am certain is not your intention.
In my country the dictatorship of Pinochet introduced the same rollout as China and now the democratic governments are rolling out the traceability and 5G etc.
That was my point.

[Mashika]

I don't disagree with what you have said but I am not sure of the point you are trying to make. I see that you are from Russia so I feel you could bring a different and interesting perspective to the conversation. My feeling is that in theory socialism and communism sound great but in reality, it never works out well because it is administered by humans and we are all flawed. Capitalism sounds great in theory but once again humans get in the way of it fulfilling its full potential with greed, mismanagement and government regulations. There never has been a "pure" communist, capitalist, or socialist country, it is something that people holding those ideologies strive for but will never attain. A bit like playing a musical instrument, you will never achieve your best until you take your last breath in this life.

If you support communism I would love to hear why and how you think it would benefit mankind. I look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks
R



Communism has always tried to remove patriotism and religion form society. The United States was founded on the principle of individual rights and private property. Communism opposes both of those concepts, sacrificing individualism and independence for the group. This is exactly why the protesters in Portland were burning bibles and American flags for the last few weeks almost every night. Here is a fact check (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/portland-protesters-burn-bibles/) on the subject. Race protests are being used to disguise a larger agenda which is now becoming clear to "some" Americans and people around the world.

The Communist Party USA states in the first sentence of their website that: "The Road to Socialism USA is the Program of the Communist Party USA." You can check it out on their site at https://cpusa.org/party_info/party-program/

Here is an article (https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/de-blasio-checkpoints-10k-fines-for-travelers-to-break-quarantine/) that talks about Mayor DeBlasio instituting checkpoints all around New York City and enacting $10,000 fines for people coming in from states with high COVID rates. If you can't see the Communist undertones in this action then you never will. Keep in mind that Mayor DeBlasio was so enamored with Communism that he honeymooned in Cuba. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-de-blasio-forced-to-defend-his-honeymoon-to-cuba-on-the-view

Universities have become a fertile training ground for young Communists. Here is a Bloomberg article from 2012 that lays is out pretty succinctly. - Harvard-Trained Communists (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-11-08/harvard-trained-communists-vie-for-influence-as-party-gathers) This is probably the biggest threat to the free world and many are just beginning to wake up to what is actually happening.

I have a great deal of reluctance to speak badly about Black Lives Matter. The vast majority of people around the world want to see and end to racism so saying anything negative about BLM seems counterintuitive. That said there is no other way to say it, Black Lives Matter holds to a strict Marxist/Communist ideology - https://www.socialistalternative.org/marxism-fight-black-freedom/black-lives-matter-marxism/

Anyone that thinks removing history, statutes, or defunding the police has anything to do with race has not even begun to connect the dots that lead directly to Socialism which then fastracks to Communism. For Communism to work the United States must fail.

The 2020 election will probably be the most meaningful election in most of our lifetimes. I will go out on a limb and make a prediction. The results will be an absolute mess because of vote by mail and alleged foreign interference. The results will be contested by whoever loses and it will take much time and possibly a court decision to declare a winner. The results will determine if Socialism and Communism move forward or go on hold for another time. Even after the results have clearly been decided I would anticipate a great deal of civil unrest.

There is a lot of misconceptions about what "communism" really means, which leads to very funny views,

For example, most people think the USSR was a single country, and that it represents communism, and not a Union of States, or "United States", just as many other countries still are today, including the United States of America, or the United States of Mexico, or the United States of Brazil

If an order came from the Kremlin, is no different than if an order comes from the White House today (like Trump signing an executive order) but of course "one is evil the other is not" :P



The United States was founded on the principle of individual rights and private property. Communism opposes both of those concepts

Should look at China, are people unable to have private property?

The USA has for a long time implemented socialist programs, welfare and medical health and others i believe. It had always that aspect going on, the UK also has a health care program that works in similar ways



Universities have become a fertile training ground for young Communists

This happens from within, it happens even on already Communists countries like on the USSR in the 40's and later on, except on there it was a different flavor of Communism and even negating all the existing practices of the government at that time, which lead to students getting killed or repressed, not much different than in the US, it's all just a game of words and "it's good unless it's against us"



Communism has always tried to remove patriotism and religion form society

Not quite, some people attempted in the USSR to do that, but patriotism? Even Trump wanted so bad to copy the yearly VD celebration from Russia, it takes a lot of patriotism to continue doing that after so many years. Perhaps you meant Nationalism? But even then the US has already been doing nationalism for decades and has plans to continue for many more

Hi,

No i don't support communism, i never experienced in the way that most people believe it exists, or existed. When i have gone to China, it doesn't feel "communist" at all, people have lots of tech, their own houses and cars and TVs and everything is pretty much the same or even more tech advanced than in the US or other western countries. So it's confusing to see some views such as "there's no private property"

In the case of the US, i find it very troublesome that if you go to other countries such as Syria/Iran or Afghanistan, you see most US citizens there act as if they own their land or have more rights than the native citizens, which is puzzling because the capitalism only applies for Americans, even when on foreign lands, but why? Syria, or Iran, for example, are not communist countries at all, but still rights are removed left and right, it has nothing to do with capitalism vs communism. Just as the US feels free to take the oil fields and sell/give away other people's property to the terrorists as long as they align to the US interests. "individual rights" is a completely different game depending on who's rights are going to be stepped on

My point is, that all these things like individual rights, religion, capitalism, are just a play of words because if it were true, we would not see sanctions that kills tens of thousands of people just because of political reasons. We would also not see entire companies being threatened with sanctions because they have better tech, or full countries being sanctioned because they buy from other countries not in the list of friends. That's not capitalism, that's basically taken from Stalin's playbook. You are either with us, or you are the enemy and will die



If you support communism I would love to hear why and how you think it would benefit mankind. I look forward to hearing from you.

I find it hard to figure out how capitalism really works, when all the points made about communism basically apply to capitalism as well. Like letting thousands die in the name of war so that a country can be reformed to fit the views of western society, or leaving it to rot once it's not worth the effort any more, as in Libya?

So, human interests and a lot of words thrown around, narratives and such to excuse behaviors, but at the very very core, it's the same thing, human/politic interests/corruption and nothing much more from the leaders of any country


If we go through the list of points posted on the thread OP, i can find you examples of every single point, but not related to communism and instead tied to capitalism ways, in current world events.

Both are the same, just need to look at them from far away to see it

[Agape]

To me it seems a rather basic title for a place/thread were we can discuss the world takeover that has been going on for the last 200 or 300 years.
It seems more like a CNN headline than anything else.
I also believe that Bill is not clear here.Well, that's okay! :)

(But I have to say, I'm actually quite surprised there's not a great deal of agreement about the clarity on display here.)


Post Scriptum: Bill , why you don’t say straight away “my project needs more donations”?
Payed membership ?

What the heck has that got to do with this thread...?! You've been here for 10 years. You should know me by now.


I don't do that, and
That's never, ever, ever, why I post, share or do anything.

:focus:



Sorry Bill but the topic always felt so darky to me that I was immediately and deeply concerned about yours and ours( here) well-being.
Sorry but this was not a sarcasm.

I don’t want to sound extravagandish but anything to do with human politics and war mongering and those memories stretch back to my childhood,
makes me instantly sick.

If I try to think about it deeper now, I can only agree with Moz who mentions the period of dictatorship in Chile,
it does not matter who “they are”.

And it was nowhere “too tight” where I grew up but I would not cope with it personally, anyway. I’ve experienced everything inside rather than outside, I would not participate even conventionally.
My “us” could not be found with any of those people. Then I left to India when I was 19, hoping to meditate till the rest of my life in some Himalayan cave.
I knew nothing about India that time but my philosophical search and soul guides guided me and I never felt lost here. Ended up in school again because I was then young and eager to learn and everything was so much brighter and easier in this part of the world and people were wise and kind.

I wished to stay forever but there was still mum and I was too young to hold any sort of resentment in me, neither then or now, so I went back and fro at least 16 times,
in 27 years .

The “system” is getting through and on every world country in last two decades partially because of digitalization of media and other useful technologies,
personally I feel threatened by the invasion of cars and motorcycles the most no matter how much I try to avoid them.


I’ve seen the “invasion” as it happened all over the world and last year up here in Himalayas completely destroying the peaceful human habitat . I know it has happened everywhere else too.
The last time I took bus was more than a year ago, closed in windowless tin called Volvo Delux :) , only 12 hours to Dharamsala from Delhi.

We are in lockdown since March of course so most of the traffic was halted for timebeing and it’s coming back slowly now, with requirements for every traveller interstate and international to take Covid antibodies test, submit their contact list and voluntarily spend two weeks in quarantine.


I know that’s horrid but what happened last year and what I’ve seen here even was much worse. The very opposite of what is now, people bumped to each other in the street and stores everywhere, shamelessly. Cars threatening pedestrians. Constant flux of people on all roads for 16 to 18 hours a day. People coming so close to thousands of other people exchanging everything the morals and manners and meaning of anything looked lost to itself.

Out of the box, I hope and we hope ..and pray 🙏 some change for better is possible ..


...🦙

[ExomatrixTV]

If something is planned, does not mean it:


has to be done by them but VIA anyone having similar goals.
is fully accomplished (but partially).
is feasible but it shows their mind-set (or it is posed to be like that).
has to happen within 10 years ... maybe they have truly a long term agenda.
has to be "the Russians" or "the Chinese" or anyone else but just a template for all future variations & offsprings of it.
was done by THEM but part of a Globalists Technocrats Agenda beta-testing all kinds of tyrannical forms of "governance" doomed to fail then offering Machiavellian "Ordo Ab Chao, Global Governance" 'Agenda2030 solutions'.

Seems like everybody gets played one way or the other.

cheers,
John

[Moz]

If something is planned does not mean it:


has to be done by them but VIA anyone having similar goals.
is fully accomplished (but partially).
is feasible but it shows their mind-set (or it is posed to be like that).
has to happen within 10 years ... maybe they have truly a long term agenda.
has to be "the Russians" or "the Chinese" or anyone else but just a template for all future variations & offsprings of it.
was done by THEM but part of a Globalists Technocrats Agendabeta-testing all kinds of tyrannical forms of "governance" doomed to fail then offering Machiavellian "Ordo Ab Chao, Global Governance" 'Agenda2030 solutions'.

Seems like everybody gets played one way or the other.

cheers,
John

I would only add to your quote (that is just spot on) I really seems that the word communism makes people jump and point out all the evil/control etc and some even putting communism against religion as if they are opposites.

One big human hug to you all.

[7alon]

I agree with Bill, I believe a lot of it has happened (I thought this was obvious). I also believe a lot of it is also being combated at the same time. This also stems from my belief that socialism and communism are basically the same thing, and a lot of socialist rubbish is being pushed on the people, as well as communism. They were designed for the same purpose (cabal insurgency and weakening of capitalism, the family unit, destruction of both freedom and unity etc). Look at what the chinese arm of the cabal is doing.. They, along with many Iranian puppets, have installed themselves into positions of power within many countries in the west. Australia, Canada, UK, New Zealand, and the US have a huge insurgency problem right now.

I swear some people have been living under a rock, I would normally prove my point, but I think it isn't necessary in this case. Look what is happening with Covid, for example. The CCP along with it's installed puppets and allies pushed the narrative that people in China were dropping dead spontaneously in the streets EVEN WITH masks.

They have everybody running scared from a virus that can easily be treated and doesn't even kill most people. Look around at how many people are allowing businesses to shut down, allowing illegal enforcement of mandatory mask wearing, allowing people who stand up to it to be arrested and even jailed.. need I continue? These are just small examples.

We the people should be concerned and stand up.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

One day all our systems of government will become obsolete. That goes for religion too. One day we'll reach a threshold of awareness and shift-up spiritually.

When that happens, we will obtain (rediscover) telepathy. Telepathy trumps language, so it will eliminate language barriers, and eliminate any possibility of misunderstanding. One day we will know/feel/see the energies and vibrations of all living things. Deception will become impossible. Corruption will become impossible. We won't need the old systems to govern and control us. They will fall away like old skin. We will live in harmony with each other, in freedom and in joy.

:heart:

[Ernie Nemeth]

Regardless of the type of 'ism', the one common factor of any system man has so far attempted has been the absolute need for low wage earners. Without a massive base of poor people the economic systems of the world would simply not work.

Even in the best situations, the poor constitute at least 20% of the population, closer to 30% if one considers those with no credit as well. And the middle class barely earns triple the minimum wage - a paltry sum.

Open the doors of the largest economies to the world and now the indigenous poor have to compete with all the world's poorest. This causes downward pressure on all wages, pressing the poor and the middle class into a smaller and smaller share of the world's wealth.

It matters not at all the 'ism' involved. The secret to success in this world lies in the exploitation of the poorest people.

Until the world gets over its obsession with scarcity and the paradigm of economic parasitism, another 'ism', nothing will change and the rich will get richer at all of our expense.

[Moz]

I somehow feel that we are all agreeing in some way or another. Just to get it out I also believe that aware humans are the solution to these parasitic times.

My initial point was that the title used here was more propagan-distic than something to create awareness.

[Bill Ryan]

My initial point was that the title used here was more propagandistic than something to create awareness.The list (and therefore the thread title, merely a concise, accurate description) was taken directly from p.259 (p.283 of the PDF) of W. Cleon Skousen's 1958 book The Naked Communist. Here it is:

http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/W.%20Cleon%20Skousen%20-%20The%20Naked%20Communist.pdf

And here's the extracted 4-page section. I simply copied the goals. No hyperbole here. :)


http://projectavalon.net/The_45_Goals_of_Communism_(W._Cleon_Skousen).pdf

http://projectavalon.net/The_45_Goals_of_Communism_(W._Cleon_Skousen).pdf

[edina]

I want to add that this list was read into Congress in 1963.
Here's a link to that Congressional Record (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CRECB-1963-pt22/pdf/GPO-CRECB-1963-pt22-1.pdf), it shows up on pages 34 and 35.

In trying to find the Congressional Record I discovered that W Cleon Skousen wrote a second volume to the Naked Communist (https://www.amazon.com/Naked-Communist-Exposing-Communism-Restoring/dp/1545402159/ref=as_li_ss_tl?keywords=the+naked+communist&qid=1570388626&sr=8-3&linkCode=sl1&tag=hiddendominio-20&linkId=703cabf2caf65e8afd29cf3b7bfc569c). (Along with the Naked Capitalist, this is considered a trilogy on the topic.)


Now updated for 2017, this edition includes a chapter on the forty-five Communist Goals, detailing how forty-four of those goals have been achieved in the U.S. already, as well as a chapter on the making of The Naked Communist, shedding light on how this book has sold almost two million copies.

As relevant now as it was sixty years ago, Skousen’s groundbreaking work provides a renewed understanding of one of the greatest threats facing America today.

I spent some time this morning trying to find a free pdf version of the second volume and couldn't fine one.
If anyone else finds it, I would be interested in being able to download it.

[Bill Ryan]

I want to add that this list was read into Congress in 1963.
Here's a link to that Congressional Record (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CRECB-1963-pt22/pdf/GPO-CRECB-1963-pt22-1.pdf), it shows up on pages 34 and 35.

In trying to find the Congressional Record I discovered that W Cleon Skousen wrote a second volume to the Naked Communist (https://www.amazon.com/Naked-Communist-Exposing-Communism-Restoring/dp/1545402159/ref=as_li_ss_tl?keywords=the+naked+communist&qid=1570388626&sr=8-3&linkCode=sl1&tag=hiddendominio-20&linkId=703cabf2caf65e8afd29cf3b7bfc569c).


Now updated for 2017, this edition includes a chapter on the forty-five Communist Goals, detailing how forty-four of those goals have been achieved in the U.S. already, as well as a chapter on the making of The Naked Communist, shedding light on how this book has sold almost two million copies.

As relevant now as it was sixty years ago, Skousen’s groundbreaking work provides a renewed understanding of one of the greatest threats facing America today.

I spent some time this morning trying to find a free pdf version of the second volume and couldn't fine one.
If anyone else finds it, I would be interested in being able to download it.Here ya go: :thumbsup:


W. Cleon Skousen - The Naked Capitalist
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/W.%20Cleon%20Skousen%20-%20The%20Naked%20Capitalist.pdf

[edina]

I want to add that this list was read into Congress in 1963.
Here's a link to that Congressional Record (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CRECB-1963-pt22/pdf/GPO-CRECB-1963-pt22-1.pdf), it shows up on pages 34 and 35.

In trying to find the Congressional Record I discovered that W Cleon Skousen wrote a second volume to the Naked Communist (https://www.amazon.com/Naked-Communist-Exposing-Communism-Restoring/dp/1545402159/ref=as_li_ss_tl?keywords=the+naked+communist&qid=1570388626&sr=8-3&linkCode=sl1&tag=hiddendominio-20&linkId=703cabf2caf65e8afd29cf3b7bfc569c).


Now updated for 2017, this edition includes a chapter on the forty-five Communist Goals, detailing how forty-four of those goals have been achieved in the U.S. already, as well as a chapter on the making of The Naked Communist, shedding light on how this book has sold almost two million copies.

As relevant now as it was sixty years ago, Skousen’s groundbreaking work provides a renewed understanding of one of the greatest threats facing America today.

I spent some time this morning trying to find a free pdf version of the second volume and couldn't fine one.
If anyone else finds it, I would be interested in being able to download it.Here ya go: :thumbsup:


W. Cleon Skousen - The Naked Capitalist
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/W.%20Cleon%20Skousen%20-%20The%20Naked%20Capitalist.pdf


Super, thank you, it's good to know that's now in the Avalon library, too. :sun:
I'm looking for Volume 2 (https://www.amazon.com/Naked-Communist-Exposing-Communism-Restoring/dp/1545402159/ref=as_li_ss_tl?keywords=the+naked+communist&qid=1570388626&sr=8-3&linkCode=sl1&tag=hiddendominio-20&linkId=703cabf2caf65e8afd29cf3b7bfc569c) of the Naked Communist.

I'd like to see how Skousen detailed that they were already accomplished.
When I made notes on the list, I could tell I had some gaps in my knowledge.
The second volume would probably make it easier to start filling in some of those gaps.
It could maybe save me some time, and/or point me in some productive directions.

(PS: I haven't read the first volume, so if it those details show up in the Volume 1 then that's cool, that will work for me.)

[Moz]

My initial point was that the title used here was more propagandistic than something to create awareness.The list (and therefore the thread title, merely a concise, accurate description) was taken directly from p.259 (p.283 of the PDF) of W. Cleon Skousen's 1958 book The Naked Communist. Here it is:

http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/W.%20Cleon%20Skousen%20-%20The%20Naked%20Communist.pdf

And here's the extracted 4-page section. I simply copied the goals. No hyperbole here. :)


http://projectavalon.net/The_45_Goals_of_Communism_(W._Cleon_Skousen).pdf

http://projectavalon.net/The_45_Goals_of_Communism_(W._Cleon_Skousen).pdf

Bill, the issue of being factual was never the point of my opinion. You can be as factual as possible citing a FBI agent from the postwar 1950, or from the CIA or anyother US agency. One might even agree with such an opinion or not in todays world.
Somehow it still feels strange today.

[Bill Ryan]

Somehow it still feels strange today.Yes, of course. Just substitute "Extremist Socialism" for "Communism", and it all starts to fit a lot better. Some of this is playing out right now.

[Moz]

Somehow it still feels strange today.Yes, of course. Just substitute "Extremist Socialism" for "Communism", and it all starts to fit a lot better. Some of this is playing out right now.

Absolutely. Buy my concern was that some people online are in fact propagating the current events with some communist agenda, and I do believe that this is a mistake, a scam to mislead the public in general, and it is working to some degree, specially in the US.
Anyway thats my point regarding the title.

[Constance]

Somehow it still feels strange today.Yes, of course. Just substitute "Extremist Socialism" for "Communism", and it all starts to fit a lot better. Some of this is playing out right now.

Absolutely. Buy my concern was that some people online are in fact propagating the current events with some communist agenda, and I do believe that this is a mistake, a scam to mislead the public in general, and it is working to some degree, specially in the US.
Anyway thats my point regarding the title.

The title is a warning about what is coming if we don't take action now. It's a harsh reality here for our people in Victoria, Australia.

The premier of Victoria visited China 30 times in the last few years. He has signed an agreement with the Chinese called the Belt and Road Initiative with the CCP (China Communist Party). However, he won't reveal to the rest of Australia what this agreement constitutes and how very convenient given that the Parliament of Australia is out for an indefinite period. The premier has cart blanche to do whatever he wants now because it has all been presented under the guise of a lockdown for our health and safety.

Victoria is currently spending a crazy amount of money on infrastructure but essentially, Victoria is bankrupt. The people of Australia are now asking where that money is coming from, given that Australia as a whole is in debt to the tune of almost 500 billion.

I've shared what is currently happening in our state on the Here and now, What's happening thread. We are under curfew from 8pm to 5am; we cannot visit each other in homes, our homes can be taken from us for use by the state under the guise of a state of Emergency enacted with only 4 hours notice to 5 million Victorians; we can be held prisoners in our own homes indefinitely if we test positive for COVID, we need to have permit papers to travel to work; if we are not going to work, we can only travel in a 5km radius for whatever we need and only one person per family is allowed to do this; if we get caught outside of that 5km radius we can be arrested and held and detained indefinitely; we have roadblocks everywhere and the international and domestic airport are closed to travel because we are not allowed to leave the state or the country; the list goes on and on.

[Moz]

Somehow it still feels strange today.Yes, of course. Just substitute "Extremist Socialism" for "Communism", and it all starts to fit a lot better. Some of this is playing out right now.

Absolutely. Buy my concern was that some people online are in fact propagating the current events with some communist agenda, and I do believe that this is a mistake, a scam to mislead the public in general, and it is working to some degree, specially in the US.
Anyway thats my point regarding the title.

The title is a warning about what is coming if we don't take action now. It's a harsh reality here for our people in Victoria, Australia.

The premier of Victoria visited China 30 times in the last few years. He has signed an agreement with the Chinese called the Belt and Road Initiative with the CCP (China Communist Party). However, he won't reveal to the rest of Australia what this agreement constitutes and how very convenient given that the Parliament of Australia is out for an indefinite period. The premier has cart blanche to do whatever he wants now because it has all been presented under the guise of a lockdown for our health and safety.

Victoria is currently spending a crazy amount of money on infrastructure but essentially, Victoria is bankrupt. The people of Australia are now asking where that money is coming from, given that Australia as a whole is in debt to the tune of almost 500 billion.

I've shared what is currently happening in our state on the Here and now, What's happening thread. We are under curfew from 8pm to 5am; we cannot visit each other in homes, our homes can be taken from us for use by the state under the guise of a state of Emergency enacted with only 4 hours notice to 5 million Victorians; we can be held prisoners in our own homes indefinitely if we test positive for COVID, we need to have permit papers to travel to work; if we are not going to work, we can only travel in a 5km radius for whatever we need and only one person per family is allowed to do this; if we get caught outside of that 5km radius we can be arrested and held and detained indefinitely; we have roadblocks everywhere and the international and domestic airport are closed to travel because we are not allowed to leave the state or the country; the list goes on and on.

Dear Constance,
I am sorry to hear whats going on in your country... Something similar is going on in mine.
My question is how did this happen, did the Chinese start making products for the rest of the world by themselves, how did they manage to export them to Chile or Australia or the US... Didn't we know... Who Made this shift possible for the last 30 years?
I don't believe it was communist-China. It was some other factual power. Narrowing it down to communism is probably not very accurate.
Thus a title like for example "Another move by TPTB- Communism" is in my view a better explanation.

[Constance]

Somehow it still feels strange today.Yes, of course. Just substitute "Extremist Socialism" for "Communism", and it all starts to fit a lot better. Some of this is playing out right now.

Absolutely. Buy my concern was that some people online are in fact propagating the current events with some communist agenda, and I do believe that this is a mistake, a scam to mislead the public in general, and it is working to some degree, specially in the US.
Anyway thats my point regarding the title.

The title is a warning about what is coming if we don't take action now. It's a harsh reality here for our people in Victoria, Australia.

The premier of Victoria visited China 30 times in the last few years. He has signed an agreement with the Chinese called the Belt and Road Initiative with the CCP (China Communist Party). However, he won't reveal to the rest of Australia what this agreement constitutes and how very convenient given that the Parliament of Australia is out for an indefinite period. The premier has cart blanche to do whatever he wants now because it has all been presented under the guise of a lockdown for our health and safety.

Victoria is currently spending a crazy amount of money on infrastructure but essentially, Victoria is bankrupt. The people of Australia are now asking where that money is coming from, given that Australia as a whole is in debt to the tune of almost 500 billion.

I've shared what is currently happening in our state on the Here and now, What's happening thread. We are under curfew from 8pm to 5am; we cannot visit each other in homes, our homes can be taken from us for use by the state under the guise of a state of Emergency enacted with only 4 hours notice to 5 million Victorians; we can be held prisoners in our own homes indefinitely if we test positive for COVID, we need to have permit papers to travel to work; if we are not going to work, we can only travel in a 5km radius for whatever we need and only one person per family is allowed to do this; if we get caught outside of that 5km radius we can be arrested and held and detained indefinitely; we have roadblocks everywhere and the international and domestic airport are closed to travel because we are not allowed to leave the state or the country; the list goes on and on.

Dear Constance,
I am sorry to hear whats going on in your country... Something similar is going on in mine.
My question is how did this happen, did the Chinese start making products for the rest of the world by themselves, how did they manage to export them to Chile or Australia or the US... Didn't we know... Who Made this shift possible for the last 30 years?
I don't believe it was communist-China. It was some other factual power. Narrowing it down to communism is probably not very accurate.
Thus a title like for example "Another move by TPTB- Communism" is in my view a better explanation.

It's not just a matter of narrowing it down to communism. Of course it is not just communism. However, that is not the point of the title. I'm not going to speak for anyone else here but my interpretation is that the title is designed to draw attention to how it is all a slippery slope when we give our power over to anyone, whoever it may be. I'm all for sovereignty. It is the only thing I stand for. My only contract is with god.


Edited to add: And whilst people are getting hung up over titles, TPTB continue like a freight train to bear down on us and the sun is setting on our freedoms.

[NX.P]

I wonder to what extent "Tailgunner Joe" maybe wasn't forced to give up his contacts and then became demonized by the same information he was made to provide.

[Moz]

Totally agree with you Constance
A warm hug from here to you and tanks for the update about AUS.

[Bill Ryan]

Here's G. Edward Griffin on exactly this. (a 3 minute extract from a recent Infowars interview)


http://projectavalon.net/G_Edward_Griffin_on_Communism_in_the_US.mp3 (1.7 Mb)

[Bill Ryan]

Here's G. Edward Griffin on exactly this. (a 3 minute extract from a recent Infowars interview)


http://projectavalon.net/G_Edward_Griffin_on_Communism_in_the_US.mp3 (1.7 Mb)



Better than that — here's G. Edward Griffin, on record in 1969 laying out exactly what's happening now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clyuNQbmuXk

[Satori]

Here's G. Edward Griffin on exactly this. (a 3 minute extract from a recent Infowars interview)


http://projectavalon.net/G_Edward_Griffin_on_Communism_in_the_US.mp3 (1.7 Mb)



Better than that — here's G. Edward Griffin, on record in 1969 laying out exactly what's happening now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clyuNQbmuXk

For my money there is no better public speaker and communicator than G. Edward Griffin. (He's still alive and well but not making many, if any, public appearances anymore.) And what makes him even better is that he is not given to hyperbole and spinning stories. He knows that the truth of the matter is crazy or startling enough. He has no need or desire to embellish on "The Reality Zone" for any reason.

The above video is one of his many great presentations.

[happyuk]

I have owned Skousen's 'The Naked Capitalist' and 'The Naked Communist' for some years now. It's fair to say that (along with two or three other important books I've read in my lifetime), these books changed my life.

Here's a video of Skousen talking about how the Founding Fathers where literally light years ahead of their time in truly understanding and foreseeing human nature when formulating the American system of government:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuIABehux-w

What I found particularly thought-provoking in the books was Skousen's defence of Senator Joe McCarthy, who when you actually sit down and study who he was is not the demon he so often portrayed as, but rather a tough, honest and sincere ex-marine, who saw more clearly and expounded more eloquently than anyone else that America was being set upon by a socialist conspiracy.

[edina]

Here's G. Edward Griffin on exactly this. (a 3 minute extract from a recent Infowars interview)


http://projectavalon.net/G_Edward_Griffin_on_Communism_in_the_US.mp3 (1.7 Mb)



Better than that — here's G. Edward Griffin, on record in 1969 laying out exactly what's happening now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clyuNQbmuXk

At the beginning of this clip, he mentions Manning Johnson.

For anyone interested you can see Manning's own words about his experience at this website (http://www.manningjohnson.org/).

It is similar for Thomas Sowell (https://b-ok.cc/s/thomas%20sowell/?e=1). Thomas Sowell was a Marxist, a leader, and from his personal experiences he reevaluated Marxism and changed his mind.

[edina]

I have owned Skousen's 'The Naked Capitalist' and 'The Naked Communist' for some years now. It's fair to say that (along with two or three other important books I've read in my lifetime), these books changed my life.

Here's a video of Skousen talking about how the Founding Fathers where literally light years ahead of their time in truly understanding and foreseeing human nature when formulating the American system of government:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuIABehux-w

What I found particularly thought-provoking in the books was Skousen's defence of Senator Joe McCarthy, who when you actually sit down and study who he was is not the demon he so often portrayed as, but rather a tough, honest and sincere ex-marine, who saw more clearly and expounded more eloquently than anyone else that America was being set upon by a socialist conspiracy.



I have a couple of books by W Cleon Skousen about the US Constitution. I've been thinking about rereading them lately and of putting some time aside to deepen my understanding of the US Constitution and the system of "separation of powers".

I remember being surprised about how long the people who founded this system thought about, talked about, and developed the ideas implemented, it was about 25 years before it was set down in ink, well before the Declaration of Independence. They had all come out of the period of the bloody wars between monarchs. They took a long historical view of government systems and noted the pattern of a sort of pendulum swing between anarchy and tyranny and sought to find a way to bring that pendulum to a balanced point. They also incorporated ideas from the Iroquois Federation's form of government into the mix.


The two books I mentioned above are The Making of America, and The 5000 Year Leap. I have these books in hard copy form in my library.

Of the two, I felt I learned more from The Making of America. The 5000 Year Leap seemed to be a condensed version of the first.

I remember feeling inspired and enlightened about the the US Constitution after I read these books.

And in considering how humanity may evolve into a global civilization, I've been thinking of the "principles" mentioned in the video.

I couldn't find a pdf of The Making of America. But could and did find a pdf of The 5000 Year Leap. (https://b-ok.cc/book/1679030/d7e4ba?dsource=recommend)

[Satori]

I recommend also re-reading (or reading) The Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation, the US Constitution and the Federalist Papers. The latter will help one understand the Constitution and the Articles, including the differences between the two. And the Declaration of Independence will help one understand the reason for the Articles, which then morphed into the Constitution.

[norman]

I have owned Skousen's 'The Naked Capitalist' and 'The Naked Communist' for some years now. It's fair to say that (along with two or three other important books I've read in my lifetime), these books changed my life.

Here's a video of Skousen talking about how the Founding Fathers where literally light years ahead of their time in truly understanding and foreseeing human nature when formulating the American system of government:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuIABehux-w

What I found particularly thought-provoking in the books was Skousen's defence of Senator Joe McCarthy, who when you actually sit down and study who he was is not the demon he so often portrayed as, but rather a tough, honest and sincere ex-marine, who saw more clearly and expounded more eloquently than anyone else that America was being set upon by a socialist conspiracy.



Joseph Farrell has recently published a book that sheds a fresher light on McCarthey too.

My heart sank when in this short video both Skousen and the presenter made that so nearly complete assumption that the fall of the USSR was the end of Communism.

In 1992, I surely would have made the same assumption, but 28 years later, it's a very different picture that occupies my head. The global elite planners ARE the "communists", though they have hidden their nature and ultimate intent perfectly inside that trojan horse the 'corporation', which always had traction throughout the history of American freedom-loving, right under everyone's noses. What a brilliant deception.

I'm not an expert on the constitution but as far as I know the founding fathers didn't see that one coming.

[atman]

More from G. Edward Griffin, in an interview/discussion recorded just a few days ago, in which he adresses, among other things, the renewed interest in his 1969 presentation in which he talked about the book Color, Communism and Common Sense (but the whole interview is worth watching):


FULL INTERVIEW: G. Edward Griffin Talks Viral Videos, Health, Future Of America & Yuri Bezmenov!
kza1rOTFrBY


Reformatted closed-captions of the first 6 1/2 minutes of the video:

INTERVIEWER: I'm here with G. Edward Griffin. I appreciate you joining me. Thank you so much for being here.

G. EDWARD GRIFFIN: My pleasure.

INTERVIEWER: I wanted to ask you first off about the viral video that's been going off on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, where you're talking about — I actually bought it and I think I got about 100 people to buy it too because of you — Color, Communism and Common Sense, by Manning Johnson. So, can you tell me about that video, why you recorded it and just in general ?



(Excerpt from the 1969 video) As early as 1928, the Communists declared that the racial differences among our people constituted the weakest and most vulnerable point in our social fabric by constantly probing and straining at this one spot.

They calculated that eventually the cloth could be torn apart and that Americans could be divided, weakened and perhaps even set against each other in open combat.

We mustn't get ourselves into thinking that the Communists have placed their agitators only into the black communities. They're working both sides of the street. They want hatred violence and bloodshed between the races and they don't care how they get it or whom they use, even children if necessary.

Here is a book that I think ought to be in every home library. It's entitled Color, Communism and Common Sense, by Manning Johnson. He joined the party as a young man because he honestly believed that the Communists were trying to improve the conditions of his people. He was a dedicated Communist and eventually he rose to one of the highest ranks.

But after many years he discovered that instead they were merely planning to use his people in a bloody revolution to destroy America. And when he woke up to this, he dropped out of the party and devoted the rest of his life trying to alert his fellow citizens of all races to the true nature of the Communist party, as he knew it to be from the inside. Manning...

G. EDWARD GRIFFIN: I hope these lawnmowers that just showed up outside my door aren't going to wreck this, but yeah it's been many years since I thought about the the pamphlet Color, Communism and Common Sense, uh by Manning Johnson. Manning Johnson was quite a guy. He's a, he's a Black fellow, an idealistic fellow, that got sort of wrapped up in the Communist party and then broke away from it when he found out what was really going on.

And you know that takes a lot of courage when you join a group like that, where they demand — really demand — obedience and loyalty, as kind of like the mafia. It's not so easy to get in, but it's even harder to get out, I'm told.

So anyway uh yeah that takes me way back to the uh, the 60s and the 70s when I became first uh informed and aware of some of the things that were really happening beneath the surface. You know, you can look at the news, look at your television, read your newspapers and you can see the surface of the news, so and so said this, so and so did that, and then somebody will explain it to you. This is why they did that and isn't this good or bad and you sort of look at the facts and-and you believe all of the facts because they're in the newspaper or they're on television, so they have to be true, right? Well, not necessarily.

Anyway so yeah that takes me back and I had forgotten about those two videos I did, almost called Anarchy USA, and uh and the other one was The Communist Revolution in America. And uh, I'd forgotten about them. I mean that was ancient history, it was 1960...8 or 60... yeah 1968 I guess, and somebody called me on the phone and said: "You know, well we saw your, your uh presentation on that, on YouTube. Did you know it's going viral?"

And uh, ha I actually said: What presentation is that? And when they described it to me, I thought oh my gosh, that old thing! Well I'm glad to see that somebody had bought an old VHS copy of it apparently, back in the day, and they had transferred it to digital and put it on YouTube and there it was.

I went and looked at it, I thought my gosh, I didn't, I hardly didn't recognize myself. I was very young of course, I'm sitting there in my living room, in this house, and had my suit on, a little narrow tie and some sideburns like I had to have in those days — as you know, very serious about my topic, I had done a lot of research on it. And anyway I'm sort of filling in the holes or trying to think about what I can say about it except that yes, I had done a lot of research on it and I was in the process in those days of learning everything. So everything was new, everything was dramatic, everything was important.

And I remember every time I would discover something like the Communist strategy for revolution, not just being a violent revolution but how they use in civilized societies, they use the parliament, they use violence to frighten people into accepting laws that bring Communism to being through legal processes. And the whole, for the whole purpose of the violence was not to destroy the government by violence, but simply to scare the people and the politicians into voting themselves into Communism.

I thought well I never heard that before and here I am reading these communist manuals and listening to their speeches and reading their books, and then Manny Johnson's book came along and I read that.

So I guess what I'm just trying to tell you is that I'm delighted that all of that, that sequence that led to my early awakening back in the day is all of a sudden this, the wave has come back and it's crashing on the beach again.

And I was even surprised myself at how, how timely everything is. I mean everything that I had said in those old presentations is still true, except you might say it's on steroids today.

[Bill Ryan]

More from G. Edward Griffin, in an interview/discussion recorded just a few days ago, in which he adresses, among other things, the renewed interest in his 1969 presentation in which he talked about the book Color, Communism and Common Sense (but the whole interview is worth watching):

FULL INTERVIEW: G. Edward Griffin Talks Viral Videos, Health, Future Of America & Yuri Bezmenov!kza1rOTFrBY

Here's the book: :thumbsup:


Manning Johnson - Color, Communism and Common Sense
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Manning%20Johnson%20-%20Color%2C%20Communism%20and%20Common%20Sense.pdf (http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Manning%20Johnson%20-%20Color%2C%20Communism%20and%20Common%20Sense.pdf)

[Constance]

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