Materialistic Science, Scientific Materialism... and Truth

[onawah]

Follow the Science...or Follow the Money?

I wanted to start this thread with the following interview with Dr. Kaufman, which I hope will help to set the tone for a good, civilized, non-volatile discussion (if that is possible :nod:).
Also, hopefully, start a compilation of some of the best articles, videos, etc. which may help to wean people off of dependency on the mainstream narrative.
And to help open more minds to trying some critical thinking outside the box and connecting the dots on their own.


I became very concerned recently with the way things are shaping up these days on the forum.
...After the last big meltdown over Q, when Paul the last Administrator left-- due in large part to his inflexible political bias, as far as I could tell-- a lot of the Mod team quit, and pretty much the whole forum was in disarray.

(Also at that time, former Avalonian Bob, who was a leader of the pro-5G faction on Avalon, executed a lot of moves that seemed to prove fairly conclusively that he was a sociopath or possibly a psychopath, and maybe even some kind of shill, which certainly added to the confusion. )

What has me concerned NOW are opinions expressed and disparaging remarks made by Avalon's new Administrator, Frank V. (formerly Aragorn) on a recent thread:
In particular:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375804&viewfull=1#post1375804

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375851&viewfull=1#post1375851

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375926&viewfull=1#post1375926

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1376035&viewfull=1#post1376035


I have been a member of Avalon since the beginning, and I always felt that Avalon was a forum designed to look outside the box, where it is safe and also encouraged to dissent and to challenge the mainstream narratives.

And if the goal of Avalon is to provide a meeting place for science and spirituality, then I think the science expressed here is going to have to divest itself of it's usual arrogance and not assume it has the last word, or that it will ever outdo Mother Nature in her wisdom, hard as it may try.

Some of the wisest human beings of all time were not stuck-in-the-head intellectuals, but were very intuitive and heart-centered; whereas "accepted" science has often been proven wrong, the perennial wisdom of our greatest spiritual leaders endures, however it may be clouded over by human ignorance.

Two of my own foremost personal concerns are the huge discrepancies between the mainstream narrative and the alternative research concerning vaccines and 5G, not just because I have bad bad experiences with both, but because I find the alternative research so convincing, which, imho, demonstrates them both to be deadly and part of a larger, very dark agenda.

An agenda which includes the current Covid crisis, and the part it is apparently playing in bringing about a NWO worldwide system of technocracy in which the public's every move will be monitored and to a large extent, controlled through digital currency, 5G, mandatory vaccines, down to the very alteration of our DNA.

Whether or not we may think this will all actually happen or not is not the point--the point is that we need to be aware of it, and take whatever steps we can from there to prevent it.

I hope that Avalon will continue to be a platform where this can be done.
Frank V. may be a scientist, but I don't think one has to be a scientist or have a genius IQ to sense that there is something very "off" about what the "accepted" science is trying to feed us.

Intuitives operating from the third eye are often far ahead of intellectuals in discerning the truth, and much more able to quickly connect the dots, not through incremental thinking, but through clairvoyance, which is a superior kind of gift, much as that may baffle those who are limited to 3rd chakra perception.

So I don't think science, which is so often wrong, and has led us down the paths to disaster again and again should have the last word on anything.

That leads us straight into the trap of technocracy, a path on which we have already come too far.

Here is that interview with Dr Kaufman. It's long, but worth watching to the end, imho, and deals very calmly and positively with such serious subject matter. :flower: :sun:

Dr. Andrew Kaufman: COVID Reveals Pathology of Scientific Materialism & Need to (re)THINK Health
19,422 views•Jun 22, 2020
MobilityMastery
19.1K subscribers

"This is a special video for me and Mobility Mastery: my first interview! And I feel so honored that my first guest is Dr. Andrew Kaufman.

Dr. Kaufman is a physician (medical doctor) who specializes in mental and emotional health as a trained psychiatrist. Dr. Kaufman spent time at MIT studying molecular biology before pursuing his doctorate. He has worked with cancer patients, AIDS patients and spent time in pediatrics before pursuing forensic psychiatry as his specialty.

As a physician who specializes in mental and emotional health, and someone who is clearly intelligent and open-minded, Dr. Kaufman is the perfect person to help us learn about our underlying health crises during this time in 2020.

We dive into mental and emotional health, what our response to covid suggests about our underlying psychology and programmed behaviors, as well the broader view of modern medicine and science generally in today’s world.

Dr. Kaufman shares his insight from the inside of medicine, where he got a front row seat to the suffering and reliance on pharmaceutical drugs to “treat” patients who are rarely expected to recover, let alone find lasting healing (or be “cured”).

While I’m not one to shy away from controversial topics (or so-called conspiracy theories), since Dr. Kaufman has already made the rounds repeating the same evidence and story about the PCR test, the uselessness of masks and other clinical topics related specifically to covid-19, I chose to go broader and deeper in order to try and make sense of the paradigm we’re in.

What level of thinking has created all this pain we see in the world, whether physical, mental, emotional, social? Why did we declare war on cancer (and now covid-19), only to rely ever more heavily on drugs that don’t work and why aren’t we willing to see the evidence that these drugs aren’t working?

During our time together, Dr. Kaufman shares a story about cancer that helped to wake him up from what he calls the “brainwashing” he experienced in medical school. Since then he’s been exploring natural healing, and wishes to help people heal mind and body by natural laws and nature’s intelligence, rather than through pharmaceutical drugs as he was taught.

This man is a true hero (to me). He was fired from his job for speaking out about the PCR tests and the fallacy of wearing masks. He is risking his personal reputation for a greater cause: to help people who are ready to reclaim their bodily sovereignty and be the sole authority over their health. This takes courage and responsibility for ALL of us, and he is certainly walking his talk as a leader in this way.

At the end of this video Dr. Kaufman shares a moving story that fits so well with my mission here at Mobility Mastery: to be an advocate for all pain - mental, emotional, physical - because it is through our pain that we wake up, and if we’re willing to feel the pain and get curious about it (rather than reactive and resist feeling it), we can earn superpowers that last a lifetime.

I hope you enjoy this as much as I did, and please share your thoughts below.
Learn more about Dr. Kaufman here: https://www.andrewkaufmanmd.com/

Dr. Kaufman’s YouTube channel 👉 https://bit.ly/2NdKOOH

PCR test issues, and are viruses the same as exosomes? 👉 https://bit.ly/3dgqPtz

Va((ines vs Reality: 👉 https://bit.ly/3hLyH9D

The Doctor Who Doesn’t Believe in Covid-19 👉 https://bit.ly/3fCCTXs

Unmasking the Lies Around Covid-19 (Brian Rose/London Real interview) 👉 https://bit.ly/3hOvLcy "

8JPrYNOJ0Ys

[Gracy]

What has me concerned NOW are opinions expressed and disparaging remarks made by Avalon's new Administrator, Frank V. (formerly Aragorn) on a recent thread:

Hi Natalie.

Regardless of the the way you may feel that Frank wrongly presented himself, and his opinions, why do you somehow think he has no right to do so as a member of this forum? Is it just because his name is in red?

There's an awful lot of strong and boisterous opinions being thrown around this forum these days, including yours, why are his so much different?

I'm genuinely curious.

[onawah]

Hi Gracy,
Please show where I stated that Frank has no right to present his opinions.
It was the way in which he presented his opinions in that thread that I object to, as being superior because he is a scientist, and KNOWS (therefore presumably cannot be questioned--as if scientific knowledge is the only kind that matters, when in fact it is often wrong, which can lead to disastrous consequences.).
Because of his disparaging remarks about dissenters on Avalon, because of the assumptions he made about said dissenters (implying they are reactionary, without credibility, too lazy to do real research, gullible etc.).
In part because he is in a position of power as the Administrator ( however he may dispute that, I think the value of his technical skills as Admin afford him a somewhat privileged status--evinced by how long it finally was before Paul, the previous Admin's political bias --and how it was affecting the Q controversy --was finally called into serious question during the last meltdown on Avalon.
Because 3 Avalonians were banned from the thread Frank started (ostensibly because they were derailing the thread, but I think in large part because they disagreed with Frank).
In part I think that was because they and other dissenters re the mainstream narratives about such issues as the safety of 5G and vaccines -- have demonstrated more than adequately on various threads that there is more than sufficient proof from expert scientists and other credible sources that Frank's opinions can most certainly be contested, and convincingly so.
And because if he intends to present himself as an expert, then I think he should have the courtesy to present his credentials, however low his opinion of Avalon dissenters may be.
He may have done so in the past, but I for one have never seen them, and I am sure others have not as well.



What has me concerned NOW are opinions expressed and disparaging remarks made by Avalon's new Administrator, Frank V. (formerly Aragorn) on a recent thread:

Hi Natalie.

Regardless of the the way you may feel that Frank wrongly presented himself, and his opinions, why do you somehow think he has no right to do so as a member of this forum? Is it just because his name is in red?

There's an awful lot of strong and boisterous opinions being thrown around this forum these days, including yours, why are his so much different?

I'm genuinely curious.

[Gracy]

Hi Gracy,
Please show where I stated that Frank has no right to present his opinions.
It was the way in which he presented his opinions in that thread that I object to, as being superior because he is a scientist, and KNOWS (therefore presumably cannot be questioned--as if scientific knowledge is the only kind that matters, when in fact it is often wrong, which can lead to disastrous consequences.).

Sometimes Natalie, I'm not a fan of how Frank presents himself either. But so f##king what! Guess what, we all don't always see eye to eye in the mod room either.

And do you think for one minute that us mods, including Frank, are always fans of how certain members here present themselves ever so arrogantly, over and over and over again, like broken records?

Yet we don't start brand new threads about it, when there are plentiful others on the same subject to do it on, in this case including the one you are so dang upset about.

Is it possible you're just pissed because he walked away from that conversation?

Anyway, please carry on. The floor is yours.

[onawah]

I didn't have a problem with him walking away from the conversation at all.
In fact, I was relieved. I already felt there was enough to deal with.
I haven't seen any other threads focusing on concerns with Frank's agreeing with the mainstream narratives or his way of expressing his opinions, and wanted to start a thread where others who have the same concern can converse.
We have been doing so in PMs, but it's easier if we have a thread where we can connect as a group.
Why is it that you are so upset about this in particular?

[Mike]

I was just telling a close friend that I've always felt very strongly about the dangers of 5G and vaccines, but if I was challenged on my beliefs I wouldn't be able to coherently explain them. Not too well anyway. Because my actual knowledge is quite limited.

I think there's quite a few of us like that in the alt. community. In general we know a little about a lot; our intellectual ocean is wide but not terribly deep. We listen/watch plenty of videos - and videos are great! - but we're at work or puttering around the house and maybe not totally engaged. And in general we're not fact checking every last detail being uttered by the interviewee. Who has the time anyway? I'm describing myself here, and assuming - rightly or wrongly - that many of you guys are like me.

So, in other words, I have strong feelings and intuitions based on the little I do know about certain things, but I wouldn't last 5 seconds in an intellectual debate on some of it. I even have direct experience of the weakening effects of WIFI - it's plagued me for years! - but I couldn't argue my points scientifically, or even begin to change the mind of someone who has combed the literature and found nothing to suggest any harmful effects.

So I pick and choose my battles. Or I don't battle at all. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. But if the goal is to convince others, I know I have to do better than tell my personal story or quote videos; I need facts, science, citations, studies, so forth. And fair enough.

But that's not always as straightforward as it sounds; I'll concede that. It costs an enormous amount of money to do scientific studies - at least ones that will be universally recognized anyway - and the drug companies aren't exactly lining up to do expensive, potentially damaging studies to their brand. And even if they do, how can they be trusted? They can't be, and neither can the FDA, who are clearly and demonstrably in bed with them. So who can we trust? These days, information is so corrupted that it's difficult if not impossible to tell in some instances.

The problem is, we simply don't know enough. And we don't all have the time to research it all. It doesn't mean we throw our hands up in the air and declare it all hopeless. We do the best we possibly can with the information we have. And that information, for the most part, should be scientifically based. But, due to the corruption of information, due to conflicts of interests, due to moral and ethical and financial corruption etc etc, we know that even that information will never be completely accurate...

...And that's where the intuition comes in. In this life, you have to just trust people sometimes. You can't go to medical school maybe, you can't do these studies on your own, you don't have access to a lab...so you have to trust the people that do. This isn't blind faith. I'm simply saying that after collecting as much info as time and energy allows on something, there will still be some blank spaces. And intuition usually fills that void. It tells you what info to seek out and who to listen to, among other things. And for each person it may be different, because we all have different challenges that may require different solutions.

So science and intuition aren't necessarily at cross purposes. Science and so called "conspiracy" aren't always at cross purposes either. The mainstream media and the alt media aren't always at cross purposes. They can often work together, alchemically, to provide us with something resembling truth. I say "resembling" truth, because we may not always know for sure when it comes to things like 5g and vaccines, but we can get pretty close to sure maybe, if we're diligent and reasonable; and I say "resembling truth" because in some instances my truth might be your conspiracy, and vice versa. I gave the example earlier of how I'm weakened by WIFI; well some people just refuse to believe that. And that's ok, because this is largely an individual journey, and we all discover things in our own time and in our own ways. And we tend to discover the specific things we need to discover for our own personal journeys; that's how the universe seems to operate, from my perspective anyway.

[Delight]

I was just telling a close friend that I've always felt very strongly about the dangers of 5G and vaccines, but if I was challenged on my beliefs I wouldn't be able to coherently explain them. Not too well anyway. Because my actual knowledge is quite limited.

...........................
I pick and choose my battles. Or I don't battle at all. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. But if the goal is to convince others, I know I have to do better than tell my personal story or quote videos; I need facts, science, citations, studies, so forth. And fair enough.

This week I have been feeling quite disheartened. I like you have felt strongly about what is "good" for me. I encounter so many people in my daily life who are (even apart for the present covid issues) feeling ill, lacking meaningful work, feeling outrage about political issues, feeling LOST.

The people I have "looked up to" have demonstrated to me that "Mind is the builder" (Edgar Cayce). Mind Has been equated to "Love", "Source", "Infinity", "All Possibility".

One of the most meaningful lessons I incorporated was in the form of the Kybalion (http://www.kybalion.org/kybalion.php?chapter=II). It was written in English in 1908 and purported to be a passed down teaching from Hermes Trismegistus. It was maybe made up? I don't know? It seems bedrock to me. The material world is an expression of principles.

THE PRINCIPLE OF MENTALISM.
THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE.
THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION.
THE PRINCIPLE OF POLARITY.
THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM.
THE PRINCIPLE OF CAUSE AND EFFECT.
THE PRINCIPLE OF GENDER.

As above so below, as within so without.

I studied from a teacher who demonstrated a stepwise progression from the bottom to top. Each principle is less "material" and more free. Mentalism or consciousness trumps all and can be seen to over rule the rest.

How this relates to Scientific Materialism? One sees the many many ways in which consciousness is determinately left out of the equation of the physical/material sciences. For instance, in the Scientific Materialism view of "health sciences" the understanding of the placebo/nocebo effect is not REALLY acknowledged. Definitely it is not employed or valued by "Modern Medicine". OR perhaps it is understood and used against us.

For instance, I have a friend with SEVERE scoliosis. She feels convinced that there is nothing she can do about her situation. It is literally killing her and yet she is too fragile to have surgery. However in the many testimonials for Joe Dispenza who does understand the placebo effect, IF she accessed her own consciousness, she could literally reshape her spine. It would take effort, practice, but willingness to believe she could IS the first step.

I am certainly ir-religious but I appreciate that in the Bible, there is directive to use consciousness for healing. The faith of prayer, knowing one has received the outcome IS using consciousness. This is just one example but vastly important to our mundane LIFE.

The thing about Truth (and why I value truth and love it and think about it and want to push for it) IS that when something is TRUE, IT IS TRUE no matter what we claim. But this is not evident IMO when we focus just on examples. Paraphrase "Whether you think you Can or Cannot, you are right". IMO what we are seeing now in the INSANE splits of opinion and experience now is like the extreme of shatter where people are observing the fruit of their own minds in real time.


An understanding of this great hermetic Principle of Mentalism enables the individual to readily grasp the laws of the Mental Universe, and to apply the same to his well-being and advancement. The Hermetic Student is enabled to apply intelligently the great Mental Laws, instead of using them in a haphazard manner. With the Master-Key in his possession, the student may unlock the many doors of the mental and psychic temple of knowledge, and enter the same freely and intelligently. This Principle explains the true nature of "Energy," "Power," and "Matter," and why and how all these are subordinate to the Mastery of Mind. One of the old Hermetic Masters wrote, long ages ago: "He who grasps the truth of the Mental Nature of the Universe is well advanced on The Path to Mastery." And these words are as true to-day as at the time they were first written. Without this Master-Key, Mastery is impossible, and the student knocks in vain at the many doors of The Temple.

I have been thinking a lot about David Ickes over weaning message that we live in an illusory reality. Our awareness is paramount.

9VW6ldq2zsI

[Peter UK]

I was just telling a close friend that I've always felt very strongly about the dangers of 5G and vaccines, but if I was challenged on my beliefs I wouldn't be able to coherently explain them. Not too well anyway. Because my actual knowledge is quite limited.

...........................
I pick and choose my battles. Or I don't battle at all. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. But if the goal is to convince others, I know I have to do better than tell my personal story or quote videos; I need facts, science, citations, studies, so forth. And fair enough.

This week I have been feeling quite disheartened. I like you have felt strongly about what is "good" for me. I encounter so many people in my daily life who are (even apart for the present covid issues) feeling ill, lacking meaningful work, feeling outrage about political issues, feeling LOST.

If you're feeling disheartened then it may be you're feeling disempowered, those cicumstances and events must have a purpose. Could they not be the ideal to understand the presence of your own vibration at this moment?

[greybeard]

I think that respectful discussion of 5G is essential --the rate it is being brought into being in UK without meaningful debate in Parliament is worrying.
Same with vaccines.
Having been banned in Avalon for the firs time after many years posting.
I find this worrying.

In the main I was responding to points brought up on that thread -- no intention or ability to derail it.

My point on tests also now validated by the German Dr team The tests are not fit for purpose.
To be banned from a thread without warning is not spiritual.

It was politely pointed out that I repeat post --yes true but that is to combat the propaganda repeated incessantly.
In a war am I only allowed to fire my gun once?

Make no mistake this is a spiritual war, the misery and hardship --depression ill health --suicide caused is evil and intended.

This forum should be welcoming open debate within its rules, it always has, not quite sure it does on some subjects now.
Chris

[Agape]

But then, there are many different types of scientists, Natalie :)

Some may be intuitive people ( example Aragorn ), some super-intuitive ( Nicola Tesla), some simply meticulous people collecting data living mostly in anonymity and after getting through the pains of dissertation work some do not come with any original idea at all. Some are experts in one narrow field and others work on the Big Picture views.
Guess you and Frank are just different kinds of scientists. Also the “point of observation” actually matters.

Starting from simple questions such “how do you live, what kind of PC do you use, what’s your technical knowledge and ability in that area, does WiFi in the room disturb you - there’s usually cable and mobile internet option depending where you live of course, have you observed any clinical effects in proximity to 5G or 5G tower yourself , what kind of internet speed would you prefer ? and so forth ),
the way people report about this and their experience with technology may wary.

Frank there was simply trying to explain that 5G is not a “new technology” per se, it is just another , slightly higher bandwidth range to use completely on par with 3G and 4G.
There’s 6G and 7G in development in Finland and some other countries far ahead now, as well.

Just to let you know that the 5G band of frequencies is already in use by many militaries in the world for their fast satellite communications and data transmissions for which reason alone , public use of the band is so far being restricted.

It all “would not have to be so” if not for producing devices with limited bandwidth, similarly to radios that will have to be mostly replaced after the next option is adopted by it all will take a decade or two.


The problem with extreme views and methods is always manifold.


You would not even guess how many people with interest in alternative sciences and spirituality start training themselves in various “psychic arts” after attending some of these groups and forums and instead of becoming life’s true scientists they better practice “remote viewing”( the other people) and “remote influencing” ( or similar kind of old-new magic) thinking they’re involved in some big intergalactic game that involves -of course :)- various favorite political figures, media personalite and even scientists I guess).
It’s a new type of social madness whose beginnings could be probably traced to early years of internet and what some of us only heard about-
social reality games with names like “second Life” and “Dragons and Dungeons”.


Anyway. We may be witness to whole new supercomputer times coming, digital wars and finally even the birth of Neo who will be faster than the fastest computer in the world.

Imagine this and when trains were built and introduced as public transport some people cheered and others feared they’re dangerous and will damage the landscape.


Sounds a bit anecdotal nowadays :)


I’m sure and if the direction is correct the aim is to make technologies as seamless, harmless and user friendly as possible.

Quite like ET technologies, I’d say.

But will the “earth horders” and barbarian fighters with big guns destroy the way ahead , ahead , ahead ..



The end of transmission 🐳

[Agape]

P.S.: It would not even surprise me if there was complicated military psy-ops behind the hardcore anti-5G movement trying to clandestinely disinform public on how 5G is dangerous because it is actively in use by most militaries and super-militaries in the world, replacing -upgrading the frequency in full scale will take years to come and anything to do with military is considered matter of priority, national security etc.

and they are in “war” with internet providers and big company CEOs over the rights and legacy and access to certain technical levels at all times.

So in my opinion, they may be delaying the release of 5G as long as possible , at least and till they can upgrade.


The internet in itself became so dominant feature in certain stratas of modern society these days that some people do live in trance and full dependency on it and in itself this is very dangerous and yourself you’ve posted documentaries about this phenomenon , anyway.


🙏🦢🌟

[greybeard]

I am not anti anything --even evil has its place in duality.
Gives choice.
Where I have a challenge is professionals reputation being downgrade because they posted on U Tube and Avalon members being lumped into anti vax and other labels possibly because they have posted Vaxxed movie and other informative pieces.
To lampoon Dr Andrew Wakefield who has done sterling work to educate the public --he is not antivax by the way, shows lack of knowledge on the subject.
Possibly Robert F Kennedy Jnr would also be disregarded.

In one thread quite a lot of arrogance was shown and disrespect for some members views.

Avalon to my mind needs to show a united body against the tyranny that is going on, while still having respect for opposing views.
Im for science -- it has shown the tests and the masks not fit for pupose.
Thats probably why so many Dr's, Scientists, professionals had their videos taken down on u tub and reputations wrecked by fact checkers.
Chris

[Bill Ryan]

I think that respectful discussion of 5G is essentialYes. We support that.

We created a whole section (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?187-5G) on 5G (I did that myself), which right now contains 9 threads on which anyone concerned about 5G-related issues (of any kind whatsoever) can post as often as they like.

I wrote on 4 April this year:


We've added a new section under Conspiracy Research (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?37-Conspiracy-Research), called 5G (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?187-5G). We'll move the various existing 5G-related threads there, with a permanent redirect. :thumbsup:

With that dedicated resource available, what's not okay is to spam other threads with 5G-related polemic when the thread creator has tried to present information of their own that lies in a different field.

What happened on Frank's thread A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19, and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged) was that several people immediately derailed the entire thing by injecting more 5G opinions.

That wasn't what the thread was about. Those who are concerned about 5G (and often rightly so, for many reasons) have a whole public subforum of their own.

The new science Frank posted was good. It may not be easy for some to understand, but that's no reason to spam the thread with uninformed opinions without even trying to think about it.

Chris Martenson immediately devoted a whole video about a possible Bradykinin storm, which might tell us all something. I posted that (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375961&viewfull=1#post1375961) on the thread. How many critics of Frank's opinions have actually watched that? (That's a rhetorical question.)

Frank was personally very frustrated (he shared his disappointment privately with the mods first) — but (@onawah) so are you. We do need some allowance and understanding here.

The forum encourages and supports discussion on almost anything. Be appreciative of that, and use the platform that you absolutely do have. But we will occasionally block members from some threads who abuse their privilege, which is pretty considerable for every single person reading this.

[greybeard]

Bill this just one part that Frank posted

"Again, with all due respect, but the denialist reactions I am seeing here at Project Avalon are based upon nothing but paranoid knee-jerk rejections of anything that even remotely reeks of the word "mainstream" ─ unless it comes from Fox News, apparently ─ as well as so-called "expert opinions" from YouTube talking heads with an agenda who can very easily influence those who never studied any sciences, and a huge amount of cognitive bias, supported by anecdotal evidence because a few mistakes have been made here and there in testing and/or counting infected people. And once again, had the US government ─ and to a lesser extent the British government ─ not been so incompetent, then those anecdotal mistakes would perhaps never even have been made."

I'm a scientist, Chris. I don't do knee-jerks and I don't listen to opinionated talking heads. I know what I know because I've studied it, and I understand it. "

Frank sounds so much like a fact checker here -- downgrading what members say --not just me as knee jerk.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375804&viewfull=1#post1375804
5G mention by onawah here is a valid question to my mind
"I wonder how many of those symptoms are also caused by (or made worse by) 5G."
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375843&viewfull=1#post1375843

The test were reliable-- not so.
Frank said
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375847&viewfull=1#post1375847
"That was only true in North America, and specifically so in the USA, because the US CDC had mixed up the test kits with test kits for the flu.
In the rest of the world however, the tests were reliable."

I could go on but the there seems to be an essence of support for the narrative of the Elite.
Frank is entitled to any view he holds --however its not what he said but the superior arrogant way in which it was conveyed.
Some of it not true
Some perhaps libellous re Wakefield.
Quite a few members were upset, believe me.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

Bill this just one part that Frank posted

"Again, with all due respect, but the denialist reactions I am seeing here at Project Avalon are based upon nothing but paranoid knee-jerk rejections of anything that even remotely reeks of the word "mainstream" ─ unless it comes from Fox News, apparently ─ as well as so-called "expert opinions" from YouTube talking heads with an agenda who can very easily influence those who never studied any sciences, and a huge amount of cognitive bias, supported by anecdotal evidence because a few mistakes have been made here and there in testing and/or counting infected people. And once again, had the US government ─ and to a lesser extent the British government ─ not been so incompetent, then those anecdotal mistakes would perhaps never even have been made.

I'm a scientist, Chris. I don't do knee-jerks and I don't listen to opinionated talking heads. I know what I know because I've studied it, and I understand it. "

Frank sounds so much like a fact checker here -- downgrading what members say --not just me as knee jerk.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375804&viewfull=1#post1375804
5G mention by onawah here is a valid question to my mind
I wonder how many of those symptoms are also caused by (or made worse by) 5G.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375843&viewfull=1#post1375843

The test were reliable-- not so.
Frank said
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375847&viewfull=1#post1375847
That was only true in North America, and specifically so in the USA, because the US CDC had mixed up the test kits with test kits for the flu.

In the rest of the world however, the tests were reliable.

I could go on but the there seems to be an essence of support for the narrative of the Elite.
Frank is entitled to any view he holds --however its not what he said but the superior arrogant way in which it was conveyed.
Some of it not true
Some actually libellous re Wakefield.
Quite a few members were upset, believe me.

Chris
ChrisJeez, Chris.

Watch Chris Martenson's video (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375961&viewfull=1#post1375961) and then come back and post again when you understand more. If you don't understand it (which is forgivable) — but really want to — watch it another time through.

If you don't want to understand it, then don't post about it.

That's pretty ****ing simple. (I typed in those asterisks manually to make the point. :) )

This topic is important, because it actually might explain the operation of the entire virus.

OF COURSE, 5G will weaken the immune system. 4G and 3G do, too. We should all turn off our domestic Wi-Fi when sleeping, for instance. There are already posts about that, years ago. But that's not what this was about.

Frank was legitimately frustrated. He had Covid himself. It's real.

He has some underlying health issues. So do many humans. If you do, I hope you never get this thing.

But for a self-proclaimed spiritual person, Chris, have some ******ed empathy.

(I typed in those asterisks, too.)

And I'll say this again. Don't post about something if you don't understand it — unless you want to understand it and are asking a question. That's always, always, fine. You may really not fully appreciate what opportunities there are here on Avalon to better understand just about anything at all.

Chris, you understand very little science. That's not a hanging offense, at all. But maybe just devote yourself to things you DO understand.

And knowing what you do and don't understand is a strength. It might be that there are some Avalon members who don't fully possess that.

[greybeard]

to add
"Andrew Wakefield, the hero of the anti-vaxx movement, is a proven fraud, who was found guilty of not only having falsified his research at the benefit of a law firm involved in a high-profile lawsuit against a pharmaceutical company ─ and for the record, I'm not exactly a fan of the pharmaceutical industry ─ but also of having grossly violated all ethics by injecting a number of unwitting teenagers at a party without their explicit consent, and of having treated his official patients unprofessionally and with total disregard for their wellbeing. And all of those things are documented. You don't have to believe me. Just consult with the British register for why Andrew Wakefield was barred from ever practising medicine again."

Wakefield may be the hero of the anti vax people but he himself is on record as stating he is not anti vax --if its safe effective properly tested he is for it.
Wakefield was pilloried because he found inconvenient truth.
What he has stated in VAXXED movie is true or he would have been subject to a massive libel suite --same goes for what Robert F Kennedy Jnr is saying -- and Judy Mikovitz.
The cabal is in fear.
My and others knee jerk reactions took hours -- days -- months of studying what recognized Dr's experts posted on u tube
When I have been mistaken I have apologised.
Chris

[greybeard]

Bill please point to what I have said that is inaccurate.
I cross reference and the overwhelming evidence is Covid no worse than seasonal flu the tests no fit for purpose -- the tests there fore weaponised to keep lockdown continuing Masks ineffective and dangerous in some cases.

Im happy to be corrected.
My compassion is for those suffering from Covid19 im not a disbeliever and those who suffer the consequences of lock down --etc
My signature shows where i come from -- its not an esccape from liability for what I post.
Chris

[greybeard]

Im not contesting the value of Franks opening post nor the value of the subject.
I am all for progress in science and computers -- not sure about AI though as it could be miss used.
My comments about AI were misplaced, for that I apologize.

My concern is not Franks opinions.
It was the way he expressed, thats all.
Im sure if we were face to face we would get on.
I am aware that the condition he suffers from can make interaction with other difficult--for that I have compassion.
So I apologize for any upset I caused -- but stand by the rest.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

Bill please point to what I have said that is inaccurate.
I cross reference and the overwhelming evidence is Covid no worse than seasonal flu the tests no fit for purpose -- the tests there fore weaponised to keep lockdown continuing Masks ineffective and dangerous in some cases.

Im happy to be corrected.
My compassion is for those suffering from Covid19 im not a disbeliever and those who suffer the consequences of lock down --etc
My signature shows where i come from -- its not an esccape from liability for what I post.
ChrisI don't know if you're correct about Andrew Wakefield or not. I apply to myself exactly what I stressed above: if I don't know enough about something, or maybe I just don't understand it well, I don't post about it.

You'll see that in everything I do. I don't think I've ever posted about Wakefield, ever. And, to illustrate my own point in a different field, I've never offered an opinion about chemtrails. (I don't know what they are.) Or gardening. Or cooking. Or art. Or out-of-the-body-experiences, because I've never had one. Or baseball. :)

I'm pretty intellectually honest that way. And if ever I offer an opinion, which is just an opinion and might well be wrong, I make sure I state the caveat.

But there's other stuff I absolutely DO know about, so I usually stick to my strengths, and I absolutely know what those are.

[Frank V]

My concern is not Franks opinions.
It was the way he expressed, thats all.
Im sure if we were face to face we would get on.
I am aware that the condition he suffers from can make interaction with other difficult--for that I have compassion.

Do you have any idea at all how insulting those words are? :shocked:

What's next ─ are you also going to claim that "my condition" affects my judgment, or perhaps my sanity? Because it's only a small step from what you wrote to the innuendo that I might be intellectually or cognitively impaired, Chris.

[indigopete]

I'm afraid Frank V's expressions in this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1376510#post1376510) come across more like a religious zealot than a "scientist" to me. Science does not work in the way he asserts. It requires to interact with the natural world, not dictate it.

In particular, contrary to many of his allusions in that thread such as on the subject of 5G and vaccines, the scientific method does not work in reverse. It's a one way process that goes from hypothesis to proof. That means that, while it's quite good at demonstrating that "phenomenon X" has "effect Y" on "phenomenon Z", it's almost useless at demonstrating that it holistically doesn't since you're required to hypothesise what "effect Y" would be at the outset - (commonly known as "guessing").

I can take 500 people, give them all 20 cigarettes a day to smoke for 2 weeks in double-blind controlled tests, check them all for lung cancer a month later and proudly declare that "science has 'proven' smoking doesn't cause lung cancer" because I did everything scientifically and wrote it up in a peer reviewed journal.

It would still be wrong and the masses of people that suspected so, along with those that were skeptical of asbestos safety, toxic food additives, the earth being flat instead of round, vaccine safety and the idea that an invisible fluid called "phlogiston" was responsible for heat transfer...would still all be right.

Religion works in a hierarchical structure where a "deity" representative who's more in touch with God than you are brokers the communications and tells you "how things are". Science does not work like this which is why you don't need a degree in dentistry to demand that he look again at your tooth if you still have toothache a week later after an appointment. It is a mutual process of discovery.

People don't get on planes because aerodynamicists wave complex equations at them. They get on them because they see others doing so and not falling out of the sky. Thereby deploying the "scientific method" to their own ends despite not being institutionally anointed "scientists". The scientific method is open to everyone and SHOULD be practiced by everyone, not least as due diligence to prevent institutionalised science (a very different thing) from being corrupted as it so often is.

Lets just take 2 examples - 5G and climate "warming". The frequency range from roughly 2 GHz to 100 GHz which contains the microwave spectrum is KNOWN to be dangerous to humans. That is because as the wavelength reduces it is increasingly absorbed by whatever is "in the way" instead of passing straight through it. This property is put to use for example with microwave ovens. The entire basis for declaring this frequency band "safe" is the level of intensity alone. (i.e. it's simply turned down till it "shouldn't" affect us). However there are many problems with this approach: one is that sticking a few hundred mice in front of a 5G repeater for a year or two and checking if any of them are dead at the end of it is not remotely the same thing as detecting, say, cognitive difficulties in a 7 year old child amongst hundreds of millions who are brought up in an environment bathed in low-level microwave electromagnetic radiation. If anyone tells you otherwise they don't understand the scientific method, regardless of how institutionally "rubber stamped" they may be.

Another problem is the inverse-square law. Electromagnetic propagation intensity is far from linear. If there's enough power for you to watch a Harry Potter movie on a 30'' Hi-def screen in your home over a 5G signal coming from the street, then there's about 10,000 times that intensity at a hundredth of the distance from the repeater (which is where you'll be when you're out shopping).

Scientific institutions SHOULD acknowledge that but they largely don't because they're guided by the priorities of their paymasters at LEAST as much as dispassionate interpretation of scientific observations. The peer review process is only as good as its consumers (us) make it. It can be anything from a valuable validation tool to a monumental group-think fail.

The "climate" propaganda is a good example of how it's ended up as the latter. It isn't very difficult to categorically demonstrate that CO2 is not a significant factor in climate temperature. This is because emissivity is a gas property which, while it may allow to the gas to heat up quicker, is not a factor in its temperature at radiative equilibrium which is required by Kirchoff's law and conservation of energy in the absence of an ever-increasing supply of solar heat. This is far more "settled science" than the "greenhouse" fairytale which, if true, would have cooked us to ta crisp eons ago along with many other planets.

We are at a time in human history when "science" has never been in greater need of being cross-examined, questioned and having its assertions challenged where its consumers (us !) find they do not square. In that regard, people asserting "I am a scientist, I understand where you do not" over concerning issues should be attributed a similar level of trust as insurance salesmen IMO.

[greybeard]

My concern is not Franks opinions.
It was the way he expressed, thats all.
Im sure if we were face to face we would get on.
I am aware that the condition he suffers from can make interaction with other difficult--for that I have compassion.

Do you have any idea at all how insulting those words are? :shocked:

What's next ─ are you also going to claim that "my condition" affects my judgment, or perhaps my sanity? Because it's only a small step from what you wrote to the innuendo that I might be intellectually or cognitively impaired, Chris.

Frank now you really are misunderstanding me.
Bill said I should show compassion I have.
Your intellect and understanding, sanity not in question.
I accept what I said open to misunderstanding -- again I apologize -- not my intent.
I am sorry you felt insulted.
Chris
Ps I said if we were face to face Im sure we would get on--I stand by that--comunication mainly non-verbal --in the smile --etc

[ExomatrixTV]

Key is, to focus on your own energy, staying in self-honesty NOT being "blasted away" just because some one has "opinions" based upon so called "titles" or status ("authority") as they are just excuses to stay myopic & having wilful blinders on (tunnel-vision).

One-dimensional reasoning. Projecting their OBVIOUS short-comings on others. Plus often falsely assuming that "you must be duped" as they are suppose to be free from any form of mass manipulations (mass conditioning serving a specific mainstream agenda).

I never try to focus on 1 person ... everything I do is to have my own ground to deal with bullies of all types being an inspiration to 1000s ... I see everything as symbolic.

Some ACT a certain way that is like a template people carry with them all their life until they die. That template (mind-set) LOVES to put others in boxes using labels and such to AVOID real honest exchange of new insights & new ideas. They assume you can only have a real debate if you have the "correct" label, status, frame-work. Thus they keep their (false) assumptions UNCHALLENGED. It is all Psychology.

When you see through their mind-games & self-deluding tactics you can only pity them. All is symbolic. Just show patience and keep your ground by having EQUAL right to be heard ... not because of 1 person but all who consider to broaden their own horizon of possibilities. This quality can be practiced KNOWING you are communicating with so much more than just 1 or 2 programmed status quo parrots.

cheers.
John Kuhles September 7, 2020

[ExomatrixTV]

Main (often ignored, or overlooked) insight between 3G, 4G & 5G = with 3G & 4G Cell Towers you have a choice to move/live elsewhere AWAY form the Cancer Cluster Zones... With 5G (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100537-Stop-5G-before-it-s-irreversible-) (y)our children and their children will be FORCED to be in it 24/7 (much closer proximity) so do your pets, birds, bees, plants, trees and last but not least: yourself.

[OmeyocaN777]

What about that folks?
That seems to be the missing link between 5G and vaccines.

Scientists Fit 1,000,000 Walking Nanobots Into Hypodermic Needle That Function Wireless, Latest

BP5A6LJli9k

[NX.P]

Jules renard said "It doesn't pay to say too much when you are mad enough to choke. For the word that stings the deepest is the word that is never spoke, Let the other fellow wrangle till the storm has blown away, then he'll do a heap of thinking about the things you didn't say."

[ExomatrixTV]

Do you know WHY most (if not all) authoritarians do not like to be challenged? ... Because they assume their "word" is (good) enough ... And anyone not (blindly) accepting their "word" will be seen as an "attack" of their status. From their "logic/perspectives" anyone doubting or challenging or questioning their closely guarded narrative is seen (interpreted) as an "accusation" being a "liar". That is why they OVERREACT by doing things they accuse others of doing ;)

"Mental Defense Reflex Mechanism"

I have this happen so many times in countless controversial topics/heated discussions ... I get immune to it ... It does not bother me anymore.

cheers,
John

[Harmony]

It seems to me that separate from all the possible power plays around Sars-2 virus, we don't know everything about this virus and how it may affect alot of people long term. No matter what else is possibly happenning, real people are getting sick and suffering, and from what Chris Martenson reported and the latest study Frank V posted, we are looking at complex imbalances to numerous body functions. Any new finds on how and why this is happening can only help.

[greybeard]

It seems to me that separate from all the possible power plays around Sars-2 virus, we don't know everything about this virus and how it may affect alot of people long term. No matter what else is possibly happenning, real people are getting sick and suffering, and from what Chris Martenson reported and the latest study Frank V posted, we are looking at complex imbalances to numerous body functions. Any new finds on how and why this is happening can only help.

Yes agreed
Flu also has long term effects, the symptoms are identical in most cases.

This video is relatively new science and throws a different light on the cause of virus.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Im7jsW9_Y

[Bill Ryan]

Should we move this thread into the 5G section (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?187-5G)? :P (Seems that we should!)

[Harmony]

It seems to me that separate from all the possible power plays around Sars-2 virus, we don't know everything about this virus and how it may affect alot of people long term. No matter what else is possibly happenning, real people are getting sick and suffering, and from what Chris Martenson reported and the latest study Frank V posted, we are looking at complex imbalances to numerous body functions. Any new finds on how and why this is happening can only help.

Yes agreed
Flu also has long term effects, the symptoms are identical in most cases.

This video is relatively new science and throws a different light on the cause of virus.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Im7jsW9_Y

I'm grateful for alot of things you post Chris. It's good you have your opinion. It's not a competition and it's ok for other's to have an opinion formed on their experiences.
What other's have to say could also be important. Anyone might not have all the dots to connect. It's possible there are unknowns to this virus, and might not be anything like an ordinary flu.

I'm getting the impression there are people frustrated hearing "it's like an ordinary flu" or "only old immune compromised people get it" etc. That doesn't seem to be the case and people with health issues are no less important. I'm not saying you mean that either, your a good man. It might be important for anyone to leave room for any new information coming forward that could be very important.

[Delight]

Should we move this thread into the 5G section (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?187-5G)? :P (Seems that we should!)

I do not think so.....Scientific Materialism is much larger a subject than any particular technology. Censorship of challenges to various orthodoxies is a huge threat to civilization. As John stated, the global technocratic machine seeks to inundate us with unavoidable chemicals (ex. Glyphosate), frequencies like 5G, and lifestyles dependent on smart devices. The political ownership by the Corporatocracy, because of funding, means laws are made (and mandates) that cannot be challenged by "the 99%" who are affected. Also Science that is grounded in the larger picture of what human nature (and Nature) NEEDS must include the intangible variables like meaning of life and question WHY we would want to agree to suggested "improvements".

The extreme suppression of dissent has been aided by a global information superhighway which now runs through all our institutions. Only certain "vehicles" allowed there. Checkpoints and Gatekeepers easily manage what is allowed to be true as there is no alternative. It is the new book burning.

Supposedly science is objective but we have seen IT IS NOT! It is a cult (the cult of Scientific Materialism). If science is not REAL science and instead a rubber stamp approval of what the "Priests of the Cult" seek to install (therefore make the TRUTH to justify it), we have what we see happening NOW in the Military/Medical Industrial Vice hold.

I think we are being quarantined in Hotel California because of Scientific Materialism. There are promises of salvation if you just wait there. You can have a really good time with lots of gadgets there. You can believe you are free. You can believe you are living well. "You can check in anytime you want but YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE."

Back in the old days when censorship was just beginning to be "in our face":


‘TED’ Sparks Paradigm War
4/19/2013 (http://www.christiandequincey.com/?p=2050)Internet video site TED has removed presentations by biologist Rupert Sheldrake and historian Graham Hancock because—according to TED—their ideas are “pseudoscience.”

What does this mean?

Well, simply, it means that one of the leading Internet sites for sharing intellectual ideas has shut out views that challenge deep-rooted dogmas of modern science—a decidedly unscientific act. It means the folks at TED buy into mainstream scientific materialism as the last word on what is “real” or “ideas worth spreading.”

So, what happened?

The TED organizers have decided not to allow any TED or TEDx Talk that questions scientific dogma about the nature of mind or consciousness. The standard scientific story is that “obviously” mind is produced by the brain, and that all aspects of consciousness can be reduced to electrochemical events between neurons. Anyone who dares to suggest otherwise is obviously “woo-woo,” a “fraud,” a “pseudoscientist.”

Of course, nothing of the sort is “obvious” at all. No-one—no scientist, no philosopher, no self-appointed guardian of media “truth”—can even begin to explain how purely physical brain events could ever “squirt out” subjective experiences. In different ways, Sheldrake’s and Hancock’s talks explored the idea and presented evidence that consciousness exists beyond the brain. The technical term for this is “nonlocal consciousness.”

In the “Century of the Brain,” apparently the only acceptable way to talk about consciousness or mind is in the language of cognitive science or neuroscience. The mere whiff of any alternative needs to be suppressed.

WHAT IS ‘TED’ AFRAID OF?

I’ve been tracking the TED “paradigm wars” with growing interest. And I would like to support the chorus of voices challenging TED and the dominant materialist paradigm.

As a philosopher, it is frustrating to have to keep defending non-reductionist studies of consciousness. But it seems that no matter what anyone says (or how we say it) dogmatists such as the administrators at TED and mainstream materialist scientists and philosophers (Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett are prime examples) will not open up or change their minds. They simply refuse to even discuss alternative possibilities. Like many of us, they have so much vested in their positions—careers, academic reputations, funding, mortgages to pay, etc. . .). It takes courage (or a major shock to the system) for people to change their fundamental beliefs.

This is less a scientific than a metaphysical issue. As long as science clings to methods rooted in sensory empiricism (the idea that only what can be detected and measured by the senses counts as “real”), we will never have a science of consciousness. Neither neuroscience nor cognitive science study consciousness per se. As I and others have pointed out, studying the neural correlates of consciousness is not at all the same as studying consciousness.

Part of the problem is that few scientists today are sufficiently familiar with either the history or philosophy of science, and therefore lack the perspective needed to question their fundamental metaphysical assumptions.

“Paradigm wars” are, essentially, “metaphysical wars”—conflicts between fundamental assumptions about the nature of reality. Most people (including most scientists) are not even clear about what their own basic metaphysical assumptions are; and few seem equipped to question their metaphysical beliefs, even if aware of them.

[Delight]

Bill removed a post based on "noise".


We are at a time in human history when "science" has never been in greater need of being cross-examined, questioned and having its assertions challenged where its consumers (us !) find they do not square. In that regard, people asserting "I am a scientist, I understand where you do not" over concerning issues should be attributed a similar level of trust as insurance salesmen IMO.

This was a very helpful post and dispassionate and hits the nail IMO.

Why are we beating a "drum" and making noise? Is it possible because we really CARE?

Jo Rogan interviewed a vaccine advocate/scientist last year Peter Hotez. This scientist when asked "What is in vaccines" replied "saline and some antigen". OF COURSE hearing that, a person trusting SCIENCE would say... that sounds like a wonderfully simple and helpful thing... what's all the fuss with thoseLuddite Types who would stop people form vaccinating?

If there were no people "beating drums" about the LOONNNGGG list of other ingredients, complacent consumers never find out... MOST vaccine skeptics are former proponents whose lives were turned into nightmares by vaccination.

I know that it is inconvenient to the paymasters to have loud drums beating. They are outlawing them. I never thought that this forum was "like that". Now Bill openly admits he prefers we stop making noise. I have been actually thinking maybe I would quit making noise. Maybe it is now past the expiration date for contributions that try to make some UNcommon sense.

[greybeard]

There is quite a lot of complimentary posts on the thread.
Crash and burn thread --definately not.
Any posts are appreciated by me.

Mine can be misinterpreted.

I have never denied that people are greatly affected by this virus.
Where there is doubt, my doubt, is to what it is.
There is no test that can differentiate between the Virus and Flu which is very deadly, it kills millions.
If I am incorrect please correct.

On the whole what I post is experts on video. Dr.s Professors, immunologists.
Not my opinion -- though I do have one

Im not in denial that something deadly is in our midst.

I would love to be wrong in everything I have posted and to find that all of the Governments of the world are continuing to take measures to save us from the most deadly virus since the Spanish Flu.

Yes I bang a drum -- focused with little change since this started -- why - because I have grandchildren who will be affected in a multitude of ways for years to come. I dont claim to be right.
Thanks to Paula.
Chris

[Chris Gilbert]

With that dedicated resource available, what's not okay is to spam other threads with 5G-related polemic when the thread creator has tried to present information of their own that lies in a different field.

What happened on Frank's thread A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19, and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged) was that several people immediately derailed the entire thing by injecting more 5G opinions.



Lately whenever I click on the new posts list, a vast chunk of it is discussions on Covid, 5G and Qanon. For that reason, I would say it's pretty silly that people cry "censorship!" when being restricted in posting conspiracist reactions in a single thread that somewhat differs from the several dozen others where such reactions can be endlessly explored. It's similar to how people reacted when a small change was made to the main Qanon thread showing up on public view.

In terms of scientific materialism, I agree that it is responsible for many of the current ills of the world, and we should be careful not to treat current research findings as a final authority. On the flip side, it also goes along with what Wade has often pointed out in his free energy thread, namely, that conspiracist knee-jerk reactions are mostly a waste of time and energy, and that scientific literacy is quite low. You can't overcome the flaws of something without first understanding how it works.

[greybeard]

I tend to post for guests -- repetition is good-- the cabal know that.
Members have every right to comment on any of my posts --I dont claim that Ive got it right.

Its a bit like one President when asked to prove his competence with questions and could not answer one.
He said "I dont know the answer to that but I know some one who does"

Im attempting to bring some humour to this thread smiling -- I dont mind being silly.
Chris

[Delight]

Yes I bang a drum -- focused with little change since this started -- why - because I have grandchildren who will be affected in a multitude of ways for years to come. I dont claim to be right.
Thanks to Paula.
Chris

You care Chris. You have a love for those who will come later.
"The great work is about the future of humanity".

jIPKfgZyw3k

[onawah]

Please don't do that. The issues I raised in the opening post have to do with much more than just 5G.
I think that would be relegating it to a space where it would get much less attention than all those issues deserve, and though 5G is certainly an important one, it's by no means the only important one.

Should we move this thread into the 5G section (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?187-5G)? :P (Seems that we should!)

[Sue (Ayt)]

I happen to have both extremes among my loved ones. My son being on the "science can do no wrong" side, being a NYC "mover and shaker" (haha) while my husband leans to the "if it's woo woo, it's the truth" side. Both get down on me regularly for being what they call "wishy-washy" and not committing fully to either. I just don't live in a black/white paradigm, and never did for some reason, although I can totally place myself in their shoes and feel their frustrations. But I do have trouble with their inability to shake their kaleidoscopes even a little bit!

Personally, I simply like to explore and understand and to glean ever more knowledge from the latest bits of info from both sides. If they pique my interest, I generally dive much deeper into the origination of the info bit, and try this new info on for size. (kind of like I do with beliefs). I very much think in the realm of "what if?"

With Frank V's thread in question, I was instantly drawn to wanting to understand what this newest info was, and looked forward to the discussion. I had already run across this topic elsewhere. I admit to being disappointed when yes, it was (in my eyes) preempted by the same old topics that we have already explored here on PA, so I more or less skimmed those posts hoping to get back on topic. I do hope to never stop learning and exploring, and PA has been the best and highest quality of forum sharing that I have encountered to date.
so.....
44254

[araucaria]

Please don't do that. The issues I raised in the opening post have to do with much more than just 5G.
I think that would be relegating it to a space where it would get much less attention than all those issues deserve, and though 5G is certainly an important one, it's by no means the only important one.

Should we move this thread into the 5G section (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?187-5G)? :P (Seems that we should!)
Seconded. I am busy writing a post that has absolutely nothing to do with 5G, about which I know next to nothing, but which might belong here.


This is hugely relevant to the entire Avalon enterprise. If some of the forum's most gifted minds cannot work together, then Houston we definitely have a problem.

[Jayke]

At the end of this video Dr. Kaufman shares a moving story that fits so well with my mission her at Mobility Mastery: to be an advocate for all pain - mental, emotional, physical - because it is through our pain that we wake up, and if we’re willing to feel the pain and get curious about it (rather than reactive and resist feeling it), we can earn superpowers that last a lifetime.

I hope you enjoy this as much as I did, and please share your thoughts below.
Learn more about Dr. Kaufman here: https://www.andrewkaufmanmd.com/

Dr. Kaufman’s YouTube channel 👉 https://bit.ly/2NdKOOH

PCR test issues, and are viruses the same as exosomes? 👉 https://bit.ly/3dgqPtz

Va((ines vs Reality: 👉 https://bit.ly/3hLyH9D

The Doctor Who Doesn’t Believe in Covid-19 👉 https://bit.ly/3fCCTXs

Unmasking the Lies Around Covid-19 (Brian Rose/London Real interview) 👉 https://bit.ly/3hOvLcy "

8JPrYNOJ0Ys
Great interview. First time I’ve heard of Kaufman but I like his objective honesty in scientific pursuits. For me, a true scientist or physicist is someone like Roger Penrose, even though he’s almost 90 years old—and has been deeply involved in the physics community for longer than many of us have been alive—he still keeps ‘the beginners mindset’; always probing, always questioning, always understanding that no matter how much you’ve discovered, you’ve only just scratched the surface and there’s infinitely more to learn. A true scientist has the humility to say ‘we just don’t know yet’.

hXgqik6HXc0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In terms of 5G, I defer to the experts. No one knows more about wireless communication than Eric Dollard, and he thinks the whole 5G project is insane. Not only in terms of microwaving the earth with unnecessary radiation, but he’s also concerned about the micro-wave harmonics that so many 5G towers will produce as multiple signals start bouncing around off each other. He predicted a rise in electricity transformers and pylons starting to spontaneously combust as interference waves create more dielectric discharges.

UF5EDV6T7es
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

COVID19, my views are a little unconventional as they’re grounded more in the Dollard, Tesla, Wilhelm Reich paradigm of how physics operates. Not watched Chris Martenson but have just watched this other guy Bill shared:


In turn, Martenson himself recommends this video explanation, saying that there's no way he himself could present it any better. (High praise, considering Martenson's skill and ability at interpreting complex ideas as simply as possible.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDbRfur36sE
I’d say scientific materialism is good for identifying mechanisms and cataloguing symptoms, but it often falls short in understanding causes.

I only know 1 person locally in the past 6 months who’s been officially diagnosed with it (who became an official COVID statistic), even though no tests were done to verify if he genuinely had it. He was wiped out for a full 6 weeks. I asked him to describe the symptoms and he said he didn’t have any major chest issues, just normal flu like symptoms, but what differentiated it from flu for him was the psychological component. He said he was having brutal and nauseating hallucinations. From his description it sounded more like an archetypal experience (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walking-Shadows-Archetype-Psyche-Muswell/dp/1908995092), probably brought on by the strong Pluto, Jupiter, Saturn conjunction several months ago, around the time he fell ill.

I had my own COVID scare just over a week ago. Sudden intense burning nostrils, incessant sneezing, complete nasal congestion and excessive mucus production for days combined with a breathless dry cough and neuralgia in the hands and feet. My girlfriend was worried I’d caught it and wanted to go to the hospital. Whereas I just looked at the transits in my natal chart and noticed Mars in Aries conjuncting my natal Mercury.

After consulting the medical astrology (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Medical-Astrology-Action-Transits-Health/dp/1883376750/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2W22TFHBGC2MU&dchild=1&keywords=judith+hill+medical+astrology&qid=1599503216&s=books&sprefix=Judith+Hill+%2Cstripbooks%2C272&sr=1-3) book, well what do you know, Mars conjunct Mercury causes congested nose, dry coughs, sneezing and nerve pain.

Astrology is an ancient physics of dielectric fields, and I personally find it explains the whole coronavirus outbreak much more elegantly than the virus model. It explains why only a small minority of people catch it or show symptoms, why symptoms can present differently in different people. How people can catch it when they’re not in a 5G or WiFi areas etc.

Can dielectric fields—either naturally produced (as in astrology) or artificially produced (as in 5G or wireless networks)—alter your PH levels enough to cause phenotopic polymorphism of healthy cells into virus cells? Seems there’s already been some research on the topic (https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01673-z), its one area of science that rarely gets discussed outside its specialised circles, yet it could be significant in terms of the bigger picture of what’s really going on.

[ExomatrixTV]

What if ANY common virus is more dangerous when people are radiated with 5G (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100537-Stop-5G-before-it-s-irreversible-) Cell Towers placed near bed-rooms & children schools 24/7

This I stated long before C0VID Hysteria began!


And what if they (puppet masters aka technocrats (http://Technocracy.News)) knew this in advance?

I also wonder if some people can not handle (emotionally, mentally, psychologically) the concept that Beamforming (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhkcnjXHKeA) 5G Technology might and CAN be weaponized!


Crowd Control
(http://stop5g-resistance.whynotnews.eu/5g-accountability/dutch-state-secretary-admits-5g-will-be-used-for-crowd-control/)

[Bill Ryan]

Should we move this thread into the 5G section (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?187-5G)? :P (Seems that we should!)Please don't do that. The issues I raised in the opening post have to do with much more than just 5G.
I think that would be relegating it to a space where it would get much less attention than all those issues deserve, and though 5G is certainly an important one, it's by no means the only important one.


Are you quite sure?? :)

My question to you was to make the point that you may have missed, but John below has just kindly emphasized for us all.

I totally know this thread doesn't belong in the 5G section. That was my whole point.

In fact, the thread title topic, as a pure topic, is extremely valuable and interesting. I'd like to talk about those issues. (And as anyone who knows me understands, I'm no materialist.) But the thread really has been trashed almost beyond recovery — not by you.

Do you also see the problems the mods have here??


What if ANY common virus is more dangerous when people are radiated with 5G (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100537-Stop-5G-before-it-s-irreversible-) Cell Towers placed near bed-rooms & children schools 24/7

This I stated this long before C0VID Hysteria began!


And what if they (puppet masters aka technocrats (http://Technocracy.News)) knew this in advance?

I also wonder if some people can not handle (emotionally, mentally, psychologically) the concept that Beamforming (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhkcnjXHKeA) 5G Technology might be weaponized!


Crowd Control
(http://stop5g-resistance.whynotnews.eu/5g-accountability/dutch-state-secretary-admits-5g-will-be-used-for-crowd-control/)

[onawah]

I don't have a problem with it. 5G is definitely a big component of the issues raised, but if we break up the thread, it will lose focus even more, imho.

[onawah]

Bill, you and Frank seem to share a belief that many of us who are questioning the more mainstream theories about the origins and nature of this virus (if that's what it is) are all in denial about people actually getting ill and displaying similar symptoms.
And that if we don't agree with and/or understand all the scientific jargon that the more mainstream scientists are providing, it's because we don't want to or are just too ignorant.
(And you felt so strongly about that, you put it in huge, red letters in your post I am replying to here.)
I don't think that is the case, and speaking for myself alone, it's definitely not the case.

I think you agree that looking at the more alternatively oriented science which has a lot of valid questions about those mainstream theories is quite a sensible thing to do.
But you also seem to be suggesting that maybe we're doing that because we just don't understand the "real" mainstream science.
When actually the "real" science might just be missing a whole lot of research that draws just as valid conclusions, if not more so, as has been the case so many times in the past, when the "accepted" or "settled" science finally proves to be anything but.
Couldn't it be that some of those thinkers outside the box are actually way ahead of the game?

If you want to compare the credentials and reputations of these different kinds of researchers, we could probably keep on doing that ad infinitum.
It's certainly been going on for quite some time now on various threads, and there is no lack of good examples.

And I wouldn't even be on Avalon if that were not permitted, but the problem that is now bothering me and many others, I think, is that you and Frank, who in the power structure of Avalon (if it can be called that) are top dogd.
Whether you agree with this or not, it does appear that way to many of the rest of us, and that you use that power at times to try to quash those of us who do not agree with your perspective(s).
Even to the extent of making disparaging remarks, claiming that you understand better than we do, that your sources are the best ones, and using big red letters to make your points and (gasp!) using curse words that are partially blanked out in order to show how emphatically you want to make your point.
Do you really not see how that can be construed as rather bullying tactics?

Perhaps you didn't notice, but Greybeard stated that he actually is also a scientist. Frank says that he is a scientist, some of the other members here also appear to be scientists such as Indigo Pete (as evinced here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-versus-Truth&p=1376511&viewfull=1#post1376511 )
...and which I don't have to be a scientist to agree with.

But even if we took a poll, or got everyone to display their credentials, or lined up and compared the professional reputations of all the different researchers, mainstream or not, what difference would it make?
Imho probably not much, and wouldn't encourage more respect for those of us who you think just don't have the ability to understand the things that you think are most valid.
And it wouldn't take into account the very eloquent posts such as Delight's here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-versus-Truth&p=1376561&viewfull=1#post1376561 and here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-versus-Truth&p=1376569&viewfull=1#post1376569
...which just go straight to the heart, though not bypassing the brain at all.
(Or the no doubt equally eloquent one I anticipate upcoming from Araucaria, or the highly original one like this one from Jayke: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-versus-Truth&p=1376601&viewfull=1#post1376601)
It's really all about perspective, and we all have our own unique perspectives that, if Avalon is really a community, can't be valued on a measuring scale.

Which brings to the forefront perhaps the biggest elephant in the room at this point, which isn't 5G or vaccines or even scientific materialism, but why it is that on the thread that Frank started, "A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19, and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged" ... the effects of his disparaging and condescending remarks have not really been addressed, nor the precipitous banning of 3 members from that thread so dismissively.
Or your evasion of those issues, as though it were all justifiable and standard practice and excusable because the thread was being threatened with derailment.

I have seen much more serious attempts at derailing threads go on for pages before anyone was banned, especially without being given warning.
And the kind of belittling of members that Frank has engaged in is fairly unprecedented, I think.

Apparently the info in the opening post of that thread was very precious to you and Frank for some reason, or perhaps you have both been very frustrated about the prodigious amount of information from sources more alternatively oriented that has been posted now ongoing for quite some time, and on so many different threads.
Is it considered by the Admin that there should be a balance of "accepted" science as opposed to "alternatively oriented" science?
Is that part of what Frank's definition of "community" on Avalon is?
Is it yours?
Thanks for your attention to these matters.



Bill this just one part that Frank posted

"Again, with all due respect, but the denialist reactions I am seeing here at Project Avalon are based upon nothing but paranoid knee-jerk rejections of anything that even remotely reeks of the word "mainstream" ─ unless it comes from Fox News, apparently ─ as well as so-called "expert opinions" from YouTube talking heads with an agenda who can very easily influence those who never studied any sciences, and a huge amount of cognitive bias, supported by anecdotal evidence because a few mistakes have been made here and there in testing and/or counting infected people. And once again, had the US government ─ and to a lesser extent the British government ─ not been so incompetent, then those anecdotal mistakes would perhaps never even have been made.

I'm a scientist, Chris. I don't do knee-jerks and I don't listen to opinionated talking heads. I know what I know because I've studied it, and I understand it. "

Frank sounds so much like a fact checker here -- downgrading what members say --not just me as knee jerk.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375804&viewfull=1#post1375804
5G mention by onawah here is a valid question to my mind
I wonder how many of those symptoms are also caused by (or made worse by) 5G.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375843&viewfull=1#post1375843

The test were reliable-- not so.
Frank said
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375847&viewfull=1#post1375847
That was only true in North America, and specifically so in the USA, because the US CDC had mixed up the test kits with test kits for the flu.

In the rest of the world however, the tests were reliable.

I could go on but the there seems to be an essence of support for the narrative of the Elite.
Frank is entitled to any view he holds --however its not what he said but the superior arrogant way in which it was conveyed.
Some of it not true
Some actually libellous re Wakefield.
Quite a few members were upset, believe me.

Chris
ChrisJeez, Chris.

Watch Chris Martenson's video (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1375961&viewfull=1#post1375961) and then come back and post again when you understand more. If you don't understand it (which is forgivable) — but really want to — watch it another time through.

If you don't want to understand it, then don't post about it.

That's pretty ****ing simple. (I typed in those asterisks manually to make the point. :) )

This topic is important, because it actually might explain the operation of the entire virus.

OF COURSE, 5G will weaken the immune system. 4G and 3G do, too. We should all turn off our domestic Wi-Fi when sleeping, for instance. There are already posts about that, years ago. But that's not what this was about.

Frank was legitimately frustrated. He had Covid himself. It's real.

He has some underlying health issues. So do many humans. If you do, I hope you never get this thing.

But for a self-proclaimed spiritual person, Chris, have some ******ed empathy.

(I typed in those asterisks, too.)

And I'll say this again. Don't post about something if you don't understand it — unless you want to understand it and are asking a question. That's always, always, fine. You may really not fully appreciate what opportunities there are here on Avalon to better understand just about anything at all.

Chris, you understand very little science. That's not a hanging offense, at all. But maybe just devote yourself to things you DO understand.

And knowing what you do and don't understand is a strength. It might be that there are some Avalon members who don't fully possess that.

[RunningDeer]

Lately whenever I click on the new posts list, a vast chunk of it is discussions on Covid, 5G and Qanon.
For clarification purposes, Qanon has not shown up in the “new posts list” (on the main front, right side (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forum.php)) for over a year. Administration tweaked them July, 2019. If you use the ‘new post’ @ the top, right of the page, you’d only see the main “Q” thread only once when someone posts. As of this post, it’s the 13th one down. (see below)

There are other pro&con “Q” threads (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?180-The-Q-Material-pros-and-cons) that are in “members only” section. They don’t show up on the main front page. As you can see only 4 of the 13 thread have posts in months of August and September.

Bill has instructed members to keep to those threads when talking about anything “Q”. Please note, those that frequent the “Q” threads have honored Bill’s request 95%-99% of the time.

My heart sinks when I come across posts that poke at members that frequent those threads. If others took the time to see, they'd discover they are intelligent, kind and supportive. It's one of the threads that I don't need to hold my breath when I hit the "post/reply" button.


http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/News/Q-13-down.jpg

:offtopic:

[greybeard]

A look at my visitors messages will give an understanding of the little I know of Science.
Its enough though.
Chris

[Delight]

Anyway. We may be witness to whole new supercomputer times coming, digital wars and finally even the birth of Neo who will be faster than the fastest computer in the world.

Imagine this and when trains were built and introduced as public transport some people cheered and others feared they’re dangerous and will damage the landscape.

Sounds a bit anecdotal nowadays

It is true IMO that resistance to change is on a spectrum. One definition of Conservative has to do with the attempt to hold on to the traditional (Conserve it). One interesting aspect to me is the way dress can be just absurdly traditional (Like nuns habits and the Amish dress). Then there are those who wear what they wore in high school. OR, there might be the example of WHY ties and suits, as they are, REMAIN perennially appropriate for "business attire"?

But some things ARE worth "saving" and HOW doe we know without questioning what is what? Science won't be able to show us what to value IMO if it is narrowly defined.

I am aware that I would fall in with the Luddites back in the day about machines. They DID threaten a whole way of life. Actually EVERY advance has destroyed SOMEthing. I will again quote Yorgos Sklavounos...

"From what, For what, To what" should be consciously addressed in every decision. Deep introspection and slow and careful is IMO a way to understand that change and "new" is not better necessarily. Neither is traditional necessarily. There is a REASON to change OR NOT and IMO that is the SPIRIT. "What is the spirit of the law"?

I am really glad I was 20 in the 70's. I would love to support a world where someday, someone will say the same about being 20 in the 2070's or is it my business after all to impose what I love?

I dislike clear cutting forests, oil spills, denatured food, poisons, slavery and would like to STOP them. I like computers and movies and books and gardens and animals (like knowing chickens intimately) and having a big space around my house and traveling freely. I'd like to preserve these experiences. This is my personal truth.

IMO we are collectively (in modern times now) best described as Termite People (Wizard of the Upper Amazon, by F. Bruce Lamb). We constantly dismantle and tear up and bring down willy nilly for the purpose of monetary growth. This is the thing... money is part of a cultish practice and science is also part of the cult (its liturgy) and the priests and the choir and the congregation all have their place to perpetuate the cult.

IMO Castanada may have made up the source of Don Juan but the concepts are RIGHT. There is a parasite that embeds itself in our consciousness and we become its servant. After being enslaved, one can move up a hierarchy in the slave system. Those who are a bit immune to the "virus" (yes that), the very few who can see through the SYSTEM are liberated.

I have my own personal religion and have noted others who have similar religion. IMO the religion is conservative. It is about maintaining our spirit. It is peaceful. We try to avoid confrontation but may have to rebel even if we die bodily.

Change that is just stirring things around so someone can make some cash is what IMO has destroyed all real progress. I am immune to the system. I seek what is evolving and AFTER consideration and before the tear down. And hopefully intact to live another day. Amen.

[Constance]

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[onawah]

There is a rather grim, but in some ways certainly very realistic astrological forecast that I just posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91348-Ang-Stoic-Astrological-Reports&p=1376665&viewfull=1#post1376665
...and it certainly touches on a lot of the issues that are probably troubling us all.
Here's a sample:

***************

"If you are of the kind who likes to keeps things under control, then you are likely pulled (or coerced) towards the extreme of passing harsh judgments and executing plans whose consequences could hold diabolical consequences to any future expectations. Extreme moves often result in equally extreme counter-movements.

For instance, few people are comfortable with accepting that there’s now really no hope of ever returning to some preconceived or historically-defined sense of social order. None of the political systems of the 20th century (democracy, socialism, communism, fascism, etc.) seem to be working today. The ‘old normal’ is now patently falling away, and to try to argue that we can replace it easily with a ‘new normal’ is also patently naive, or at least ignorant of the myriad of variables that are messing with our currently crumbling systems.

We all have our opinions on what must be done, but these often fall apart under any serious scrutiny or debate. Managing earthy resources is one thing, but to the opinionated freaks, psychic gurus and techno-geniuses out there, those who hold old-school power appear to be completely unscrupulous, authoritarian and insane. Which invites an equally as crazy opposing reaction. In between the two extremes of light and darkness lies the solution.

Unless you are somehow ‘centered’ and balanced in all of this, meaning that your interests are not too heavily invested in one or two specific outcomes for the ‘foreseeable future’, it might feel as though you’re irreconcilably torn between your delusional nostalgia for yesterday and some fancy dream (or dystopian nightmare) for what tomorrow may hold.

One thing is certain: Nothing is certain. Which leads all current expectation toward an unfortunate state of disappointment and despair."

*******
Sometimes it helps to look at the all the worst and just admit, "Yup, that is all certainly so"... and then just get on with your life.
I still take a lot of comfort from George Green's trilogy of books, Handbook for the New Paradigm, Becoming, and Embracing the Rainbow, which can still be read for free on line here:
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/newparadigm/newparadigm.htm

They predict a time of great chaos and confusion, a battle of the light and dark, but in which, in the end, all comes together and makes for a new reality that actually works very well.
It's hard to imagine at this juncture, but not totally impossible.
I just have to keep reminding myself of it.
I used to stay fixated on that hopeful portrait of the future, but lately I've been finding as much peace through facing the more fearful issues square in the face, or perhaps its becoming a blending of the two, which is probably more realistic.

[RunningDeer]

8JPrYNOJ0Ys
Natalie, I finished listening to Dr. Kaufman and subscribed to his YouTube channel. Bright guy. Articulate. A willingness to update his knowledge base, and inform the public even if it means loss of income, life and/or his medical degrees.

One of the many things I liked about him was how help Elisha Celeste navigate out of some awkward moments during the interview. Unlike the Alex Jones' of the world, he was patient and gave the young woman the opportunity to ask questions and helped clarify when needed.

♡

[Franny]

Scrolling thru' twitter feed I saw a post by Gigi Young which reminded me of this thread. Twitter isn't so bad if I restrict it to a few people like Gigi, Dr Zev Zelenko, Del Bigtree, CA Fitts, Dark Journalist, nature, animals and a few others.

Up pops this post:


Gigi Young
We have been speaking to each other as though we are all in the same sphere of consciousness, we are not. What we are seeing is not a rivalry in ideas, or even politics, but rather completely different levels of consciousness trying to establish social homeostasis.


We are in a time of enormous flux and have no idea where we will find ourselves and our planet in a month let alone a year. Let us seek to understand and connect with Life and each other and occupy a more expanded consciousness and a brighter place.

And the Four Agreements, especially, perhaps, the second one, altho' all can be applicable to our lives:


The 4 Agreements

🌠 Be Impeccable With Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

🌊 Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

🐹 Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

👩🏽‍🌾 Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.”
― Don Miguel Ruiz

And Don Juan:


Self-importance is man's greatest enemy. What weakens him is
feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of his fellow men.
Self-importance requires that one spend most of one's life offended
by something or someone.

Ya, this one can be like a bulldog to pry out, it just hangs on. When feeling offended, irritated or impatient with someone it often comes to mind :o

All the best to y'all :heart:

[onawah]

I'm finding Dr. Kaufman to be so inspiring, and and I'm very glad he's getting some of the attention he deserves.
The more passionate ones like Dr. Rashid Buttar and Del Bigtree are great too if you need to be stirred up, but if you are overwhelmed by all the info and need to calm down and be in a peaceful yet mindful space, Dr. Kaufman is just the ticket.
Thanks for watching that and recommending it, Paula.
For those who aren't familiar with Dr. Andrew Wakefield's work, there is a good article here:
https://vaxxedthemovie.com/who-is-dr-andrew-wakefield/
...and an interesting talk he gave in 2018 here: gn8xiiZwdDE





Natalie, I finished listening to Dr. Kaufman and subscribed to his YouTube channel. Bright guy. Articulate. A willingness to update his knowledge base, and inform the public even if it means loss of income, life and/or his medical degrees.

One of the many things I liked about him was how help Elisha Celeste navigate out of some awkward moments during the interview. Unlike the Alex Jones' of the world, he was patient and gave the young woman the opportunity to ask questions and helped clarify when needed.

♡

[greybeard]

For me spirituality is the answer.
This forum is about spirituality and science
YET one long standing thread in the spiritual section recently hit a million guest visits.
The thread get well over a thousand visits every week.
Not even noticed or remarked upon by management.

An interesting book is Power vs Force by the late Dr David Hawkins --its filled with spirituality and quantum science.
High spiritual energy prevents evil wining.
We are in very difficult times and I have compassion for those inspit of recent medical science who beieve the following.

There is a super virus out to get us all (worse thing since)
Immunization of 7 billion is the answer and that has to happen in order to return to normality.

Masks are safe and prevents the spread of the virus

The Draconian measure are an inspired attempt by the world governments to control the virus and should be welcomed.

Governments have no agenda other than to protect the population

All vaccines are safe and necessary

Bill Gates is a good guy.

The tests for the virus are valid in spite of health professionals at the highest level saying they are not fit for purpose.

That locking down a whole city because ten have tested positive is the right thing to do (Aberdeen Scotland)

Contact tracing necessary.

The immune system is not capable of handling a new disease Health professionals say otherwise --thats what its there for.

Its ok for Governments to invest our money ordering enough vaccines to inoculate every person man woman and child.

Im ok with people not investigating WHO or NWO none elected Government of technocrats or Global reset

Im ok with people having these beliefs as they know nothing of NLP Neurolinguistic programming.
This is carried out repetitively by the media. Memes --sound bites.

The one way to control people is fear.

I could go on but up to people to check their own beliefs

"Its easier to con people than convince them they have been conned"

I pray every day that this evil that is affecting so many people is removed from planet earth (a living being)
That normality is a world filled with love, harmony, compassion.

Chris

[silvanelf]

There is no test that can differentiate between the Virus and Flu which is very deadly, it kills millions.
If I am incorrect please correct.

Others have told you already that your claim is nonsense -- nevertheless you are repeating this claim like a broken record. Why?

[greybeard]

Its not my claim not my opinion.
The inventor of the PCR test said not to be used for diagnosis.
The tests are being weaponized to keep lockdown going.
Im "tired" of posting professionals reports and what Robert F Kennedy junior has repeatedly said
Here again.

(PART 1) THE CV19 TEST IS A SCAM, Doctors, Professors, R F Kennedy Claim Worldwide
Doctors, professors, lawyers EXPOSING THE LIE

https://www.awakeningchannel.com/post/part-1-the-cv19-test-is-a-scam-doctors-professors-r-f-kennedy-claim-worldwide?postId=5f5383e826374800170cd4ef

Now if you want to challenge these Professionals fair enough but dont shoot the messenger.

And

"As 'covid-19' has never been isolated and proven to be a virus or disease, it cannot be tested for. Instead of 'covid-19' being tested for, what is actually being tested for is genetic material and a RNA sequence based upon lung fluid extracted from Chinese patients. This genetic material is found in everyone and at higher levels in very ill people suffering from any illness.

Further, the test that is being used is called the RT-PCR test and the inventor said it should NEVER be used for diagnostics. This is because it is not a 'gold-standard' test that would give 100% accuracy. In fact, there is a false positive rate of 80% for this test. This means that the test is meaningless as it is just testing for genetic material and not coronavirus and even that is only a real positive for one in five people. Other tests being used are as bad or even worse. Further, using these tests anyone can test either positive or negative depending upon how many cycles the specimen is amplified by and as such the tests can be easily rigged."


Now that is pasted from a legal team --they are not stupid they check their facts.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to repost scientific proven fact

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-coronavirus-act-2020/

[indigopete]

Whatever the scientific wrights and wrongs, the whole practise of banging up healthy people, testing healthy people and calling them "cases", weaponising them statistically to create sensationalised headlines that make no distinction between a fit person going about their business normally and someone needing intensive care/ventilator support...sure feels fairly "scammy" and people are becoming increasingly disillusioned with medical scientific institutions (as distinct from "science" itself). This is apparent in the comment columns of the Daily telegraph :-)

https://i.imgur.com/tma2v0t.png (https://www.rt.com/op-ed/499816-positive-covid-virus-contagious/)

Also...

The 1% blunder: How a simple but fatal math mistake by US Covid-19 experts caused the world to panic and order lockdowns. (https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500000-covid19-math-mistake-panic)

Plus Bill Gates is completely freaking out. He needs the entire world population to take the vaccine regardless of how effective it is, the waiving of liability, the side effects etc. Remember that DNA is the next great world computing platform and it's important to get your monopoly started early. The guy is not a happy bunny and WE are the problem. We think we have a choice...

https://i.imgur.com/pNCKNGF.png (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE518ans5dM)

[greybeard]

We are at war--that does not seem to register with some people.
Our parents fought and died to preserve freedom of speech freedom of all kinds yet overnight the Cabal has brought about draconian restrictions.
Yet people seem to think this ok due to the mass of propaganda.
Dr's and other professional speaking out have their u tube videos deleted and reputations falsely trashed by fact checkers.
Is it any wonder I repeatedly post not my opinion but scientific facts from those who have spent their whole lives looking after the health of us.
Chris

[indigopete]

Many "scientists" these days are not actually scientists at all. They are politicians with a "scientist" label attached - i.e. officially endorsed scam merchants. They parade the "peer review" process and published papers around to authenticate their toxic opinions while giving scant regard to the scientific method itself.

For example, I've read countless medical papers on all sorts of topics since I did my bit of (home, self funded, not institutionally rubber-stamped) research on flu vaccine adjuvant coverage vs Covid deaths a few weeks back. Most of these papers were written by Glaxo Smithklyne employees and funded by Glazo Smithklyne. They are basically promotional in nature rather than scientific because they all start with lines such as "vaccines are extremely safe" and have demonstrated x years of safe use" etc, which is not really something you'd put in a scientific paper unless you felt you had to do a bit of marketing first to mitigate any "wrongthink" prior to the reader reading your report. It sure isn't how I was trained to write up an engineering lab report anyway.

They also are self-conflicting in that they try to prove both a positive and a negative at once. That vaccines DO have a beneficial effect and DON'T have any significant adverse affects. I'm afraid that is almost an impossible feat as the latter has to apply the scientific method in reverse (by proposing the adverse effect as a hypothesis without knowing what it is pre-emptively) and they should acknowledge this but don't. Deployment amongst the population is the true test so we are the guinea pigs.

What people also need to consider is the psychological aspect of people who populate scientific institutions. Academics are generally not "truth seeker" type folks. They are people looking for an existing, safe intellectual framework to attach themselves to. Where there is a predictable promotional path and where compliance and hard work are rewarded rather than controversy. They're generally more worried about their pensions than the "truth".

This is ok to a certain extent because we need institutions as a holding pen to caretaker and deploy the progress of human research and experience. But at the same time, by institutionalising knowledge you also create a great big honey pot for co-opting by malevolent, psychopathic control-freak tyrant type forces.

In my opinion we are at the point now where B.S. meters are going off the scale - not necessarily with the core scientific institutions but at least with the pseudo-scientific, NGO ones such as the WHO and IPCC. Right now I feel safer and more protected by the regular joe with a questioning mind and a logical train of thought than I do with most institutionally-programmed academics. Just my opinion of course and somewhat of a generalisation. But as long as "science" carries any weight with the public it will be a politicised animal :waving:

[silvanelf]

In fact, the thread title topic, as a pure topic, is extremely valuable and interesting. I'd like to talk about those issues. (And as anyone who knows me understands, I'm no materialist.) But the thread really has been trashed almost beyond recovery — not by you.

Do you also see the problems the mods have here??

It's simple -- you have to restate the thread title topic, as a pure topic.

Even the original post of this thread was confusing to me -- the thread title is about "Scientific Materialism" while the OP is about Kaufman's pet theory. We should separate these two different topics.

[ExomatrixTV]

"Scientific Materialism" ... an Enhanced Method of Control ... a (corrupted) Reductionistical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductionism) Tool in the hands of (Psycho)-Technocrats (http://Technocracy.News)


Also a perfect excuse to force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism) almost anything on a society as a whole!
Creepy Social Engineering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(security)) partly with more and more help/assistance from (Quantum) A.I. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102409-A.I.-is-Progressing-Faster-Than-You-Think-)
What is the dark side of ANY form of Authoritarianism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism) in "Science"? (most do not want to go there, afraid to be labelled "conspiracy nut").
Often UNCHALLENGED False: "The End Justifies the Means" assumption or strong belief of a morally wrong actions are sometimes (assumed) necessary to achieve (assumed) morally right outcomes; actions can only be considered morally right or wrong by virtue of the morality of the outcome. Using & convincing GOOD people to do bad things for (a.o.) Agenda 2030 "The Great Reset".
I highly recommend this Project Avalon Forum Thread: Technocracy's Coup d'Etat Has Arrived! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110841-Technocracy-s-Coup-d-Etat-Has-Arrived-)
Add millions of (conformist) people having Stockholm Syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome), Bystander Effect (https://esrc.ukri.org/about-us/50-years-of-esrc/50-achievements/the-bystander-effect/) & Confirmation Bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) combined and ALL above makes more sense HOW they get away with it.


cheers,
John Kuhles - September 8, 2020

ps. vast majority who are part of mainstream deliberately do NOT want to consider nor fully grasp anything what I just shared ... as it stands in the way of their own ("safe space bubble") careers. They rather use labels like: "fringe conspiracy sites" & "crazy crackpot theories" etc. ... thinking they "won" the debate that way ... Which only proves my case how they do it ... It is all PsyWars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare)!

[greybeard]

Agree John.

The Tests are making a fortune for manufactures --guese who has the patents.
This is materialism

Now on a personal note.
A friend of mine had the nasal swab test -- negative result.
HOWEVER since then has had headaches nose bleeds fatigue.
None of that before.

Someone posted some time back about the dangers of nasal swab tests.
The membrane very thin in the nasal passage near the brain.
Now if Spittal is enough for DNA tests -- why the nasal swab test?

Now lets say the medical people I have posted are wrong and the tests are valid -- this still does not validate Lockdown.
Tests up positive results up no mention that the death rate has fallen dramatically.
Now this is in line with the opening post as far as I can see.
Chris

[greybeard]

Weaponisation in operation
Bolton pubs and restaurants told to shut by 10pm as Covid lockdown restrictions are reintroduced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLtwYMObHFk


Hospitality venues are now restricted to takeaway-only in Bolton as part of new measures aimed at curbing the spread of coronavirus in the town, Health Secretary Matt Hancock has announced.

Mr Hancock confirmed that there would be a requirement for all venues in Bolton to close by 10pm, and that additional care home and hospital visit restrictions would be introduced.

The Health Secretary also warned that social distancing must be “the first line of defence” in the fight against coronavirus, and expressed his concern about the recent spike in cases, driven largely by young people.

“This virus thrives on complacency,” Mr Hancock told the House of Commons. “We must all redouble our efforts so we can get this virus on the back foot.”

Get the latest headlines: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/

Telegraph.co.uk and YouTube.com/TelegraphTV are websites of The Telegraph, the UK's best-selling quality daily newspaper providing news and analysis on UK and world events, business, sport, lifestyle and culture.

[greybeard]

Dr. Andrew Kaufman: COVID Reveals Pathology of Scientific Materialism & Need to (re)THINK Health


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JPrYNOJ0Ys

I reposted this video because of the footnotes --some of which I highlighted.
Another medical expert saying the same thing.
Chris


Dr. Kaufman is a physician (medical doctor) who specializes in mental and emotional health as a trained psychiatrist. Dr. Kaufman spent time at MIT studying molecular biology before pursuing his doctorate. He has worked cancer patients, AIDS patients and spent time in pediatrics before pursuing forensic psychiatry as his specialty.

As a physician who specializes in mental and emotional health, and someone who is clearly intelligent and open-minded, Dr. Kaufman is the perfect person to help us learn about our underlying health crises during this time in 2020.

We dive into mental and emotional health, what our response to covid suggests about our underlying psychology and programmed behaviors, as well the broader view of modern medicine and science generally in today’s world.

Dr. Kaufman shares his insight from the inside of medicine, where he got a front row seat to the suffering and reliance on pharmaceutical drugs to “treat” patients who are rarely expected to recover, let alone find lasting healing (or be “cured”).

While I’m not one to shy away from controversial topics (or so-called conspiracy theories), since Dr. Kaufman has already made the rounds repeating the same evidence and story about the PCR test, the uselessness of masks and other clinical topics related specifically to covid-19, I chose to go broader and deeper in order to try and make sense of the paradigm we’re in.

What level of thinking has created all this pain we see in the world, whether physical, mental, emotional, social? Why did we declare war on cancer (and now covid-19), only to rely ever more heavily on drugs that don’t work and why aren’t we willing to see the evidence that these drugs aren’t working?

During our time together, Dr. Kaufman shares a story about cancer that helped to wake him up from what he calls the “brainwashing” he experienced in medical school. Since then he’s been exploring natural healing, and wishes to help people heal mind and body by natural laws and nature’s intelligence, rather than through pharmaceutical drugs as he was taught.

This man is a true hero (to me). He was fired from his job for speaking out about the PCR tests and the fallacy of wearing masks. He is risking his personal reputation for a greater cause: to help people who are ready to reclaim their bodily sovereignty and be the sole authority over their health. This takes courage and responsibility for ALL of us, and he is certainly walking his talk as a leader in this way.

At the end of this video Dr. Kaufman shares a moving story that fits so well with my mission her at Mobility Mastery: to be an advocate for all pain - mental, emotional, physical - because it is through our pain that we wake up, and if we’re willing to feel the pain and get curious about it (rather than reactive and resist feeling it), we can earn superpowers that last a lifetime.

COVID TEST PROCEDURES | Dr Andrew Kaufman Explains - MUST WATCH!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TWLuo-8H98

[onawah]

Why not keep your remarks more civil?
Is it really Greybeard that you have the problem with, or the fact that many credible expert sources keep on providing evidence showing that the mainstream narrative is not only nonsense, but very dangerously wrong, and that Greybeard and others here insist on providing that information repeatedly and in such abundance?
If you are not happy with the way this thread is going, why not go and start your own?
The OP is about a lot of things, and I don't see why you feel the need to limit it to just one thing.
It's also largely about why this forum which is supposed to be where spirituality and science meet doesn't seem to be accomplishing that goal when it comes to mistaking scientific materialism with science that actually serves our spiritual needs.
The latter being co-operating and working with Nature instead of destroying it, and preserving our human right and need to be healthy, sovereign beings.
The growing movement toward censorship of dissenting voices seems to be manifesting itself on this forum as well, especially when the dissent is aimed at scientific materialism.
Similar tactics are being used as we see mainstream shills using--intimidation, insults, condescension, avoidance of the core issues being raised, etc.
Avalon should be better than that.
I sympathize with those who simply cannot face reality. I had a huge crisis of faith when I first started jumping down rabbit holes just after 911.
But coming out of denial is necessary if we are to have any kind of future worth living on this planet, and it has to begin somewhere; the issue of scientific materialism is as good a place to start as any.




There is no test that can differentiate between the Virus and Flu which is very deadly, it kills millions.
If I am incorrect please correct.

Others have told you already that your claim is nonsense -- nevertheless you are repeating this claim like a broken record. Why?

[Ernie Nemeth]

If any think that some of us have stopped posting here to mean that we have agreed with the defense of the China Virus testing is very much wrong.

I support Greybeard and others that to accept this test and the virus at face value is very much misleading.

I don't have the tenacity that others here have. To say the truth over and over against the strong sentiment of the supporters.


But arguing at the level of the ruse is tantamount to hacking at the branches. The lie is so big, so pervasive, that it is hard to imagine it can be so comprehensive. But it is and this virus is just another kind of smoke. Like in seven kinds of smoke.

Who can believe that there is such a resistance against the good, that the good can no longer see the bad. And yet it is so.

But as the nefarious groups mount their end-of-the-world gambit, the propaganda arm of their agenda has moved out of the shadows. Those who still remember the good, are entranced by the evil out in the open. The crazy inverted world-wide narrative that has captured our minds long ago, long before any of us were even born, can now easily be seen contrasted against the silent good. The insane arguments of those affiliated with the evil thugs, whether consciously or not, are blatant lies accepted as truth.

As the violence and the rhetoric reaches its crescendo the screaming, whining, belligerent voices of the lost float around looking for openings in weak minds to invade. While authority loses its credibility, the rabble sounds the death knell of their adopted death cult. Burn it down!, they yell, trying desperately to drown out the voices of reason - voices of the people, neither authoritative nor speculative, that still remember the good.

Our entire body of knowledge has been subverted, high jacked: our history; our science; our philosophy; our arts; our future.

It is our fault because we accepted what was convenient, expedient. We knew better, we know better, those that still remember the good.

So go ahead, hack at branches, and cause division where there is none.

As for the various topics discussing the naked king, must we argue about each piece of fictional clothing?

[Ernie Nemeth]

Maybe, just maybe, we can see better now why Wade says we must sing in the choir - because we must stand in solidarity. Without singing from the same hymnal, we are easily picked off one by one by our own biases and prejudices.

[silvanelf]

According to this article, scientists have analyzed 2,492 genome sequences of SARS-CoV-2 strains up to 30 March 2020.

On the other hand Greybeard wrote that according to some medical experts no test can differentiate between the covid-19 virus and the flu.

Something is wrong here. If the scientists can't differentiate between the covid-19 virus and the flu, then they can't analyze the genome sequence of covid-19. Either thousands of scientists are lying and Andrew Kaufman and others are right -- or all these scientists are right and Kaufman and others have no clue what they are talking about. Take your pick.

Emphasis mine:


Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2), a novel evolutionary divergent RNA virus, is responsible for the present devastating COVID-19 pandemic. To explore the genomic signatures, we comprehensively analyzed 2,492 complete and/or near-complete genome sequences of SARS-CoV-2 strains reported from across the globe to the GISAID database up to 30 March 2020.


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-70812-6


There is no test that can differentiate between the Virus and Flu which is very deadly, it kills millions.
If I am incorrect please correct.

[araucaria]

I was rather dismayed to see the conduct of Frank V’s thread drowning out its subject, despite the quality of the participants. An intellectual arms race is definitely not the way to go, and is certainly not as intelligent as it sounds – which is precisely why the participants end up wanting to break off the discussion. As often happens, there is a purely epistemological issue behind this that calls for careful examination, but which is inevitably off-topic on any given content-based thread. I trust it is on-topic here. (Note: the following comments have been several days in the making and some may seem out of date.)

The question is where one gets the authority to speak from (one’s credentials), and to what extent that enables one to speak with authority (the value to others of any given pronouncement). The basis of this inquiry being, always, how the individual relates to, and shares with the collective, thereby overcoming the paradox of more individualism leading to more altruism.

The UK has been seeing a travesty of this process at the highest level. ‘I was educated at the best school (Eton) and university (Oxford). So just put me in charge, as I am best placed to understand and act upon the best scientific advice.’ So said David Cameron, and so said Boris Johnson. This is the traditional English politics, with the Tories as the ‘natural party of government’, having the best education money can buy. This system is now collapsing as being totally inadequate to the task facing us all. The best education money can buy is no longer good enough, if only because it needs to be applied to the best minds, not the wealthiest. Money cannot buy the best education for two main reasons: a) because when wealth is the problem, it cannot provide the solution; and b) because the best minds are ultimately those that self-educate, i.e. take formal education as a mere, very probably flawed, starting-point. In other words, they adopt from the outset a critical stance and an approach to learning as an ongoing process rather than a thing carved in stone. They see it as a toolbox to which they can add new tools.

While self-education has huge advantages, it also has its problems. One of the advantages is broadening your horizons. An ordinary person may think they can see at best for twenty miles from a hilltop if the weather is fine. They forget that they can see the Sun at nearly a hundred million miles away, and even stars tens of light-years away. A grounding in astronomy will open up that perspective, and a grounding in anything else will do likewise in other ways. Another advantage of self-education is that you learn to make cross-connections, taking creative paths different from and sometimes contradicting conventional superhighways of thought.

One of the disadvantages is the downside of the above: trailblazing is by nature a hazardous enterprise; however, things become easier and surer the more they are practised. This is Rupert Sheldrake’s morphic resonance: the first few monkeys find things hard then gradually easier; after a hundred have got the hang of it, a thing becomes second nature, instinctive. But then morphic resonance itself resonates as more build on the original discovery. The monkey who discovered the wheel had no idea how far it would roll as others learnt both the specific discovery and the actual art of discovery.

This is seen in everyday experience: a musician learns to sight-read, i.e. play a piece for the first time using expertise picked up playing other things. But for a concert performance – i.e. one worth sharing with many others – they will have practised a possibly much more difficult piece a hundred times over and more. Or take a small hospital where anything but the commonest surgical procedures are somewhat rare. They become (more difficult and) more risky than with a busy surgeon at a busy hospital. To do something well, you need to do it a lot, which usually means professionally. I would add that to do something novel well, you need to break new ground from something that you have been doing a lot. This is only common sense: radical changes are more unpredictable both their in occurrences and their effects than subtle shifts. The trouble with subtle shifts being that they can be too close to maintaining the status quo.

In other words, the maverick thinker has his place in the overall scheme of things in keeping things moving, but is not best placed to actually lead the way. Why? Because much of their cross-disciplinary culture is lacking something or other. In one way, it may be too much book knowledge, without the many hours of theory-driven practice I described above. Or else it may be too much experiential-driven knowledge. Frank V’s autism is a good example of how the people most knowledgeable of a rarish condition after specialists of that condition – and ahead of other medical specialists and general practitioners – are the sufferers themselves. But that doesn’t make them doctors. They are surveying the relationship between the general (their given disease) and the particular (their personal ailment) from the standpoint of the latter, whereas a physician is adopting the opposite standpoint in an attempt to work together. This might even lead the specialist to discover that the patient’s ailment does not in fact match their specialist disease, and they will then refer them to a colleague… Unless it is something totally novel.

Totally novel would mean an individual being entirely unique, with no connection to the rest of the community with regard to their illness. If medicine works at all, it is only to the extent that we are a part of one community. Outside that community, the rules no longer apply. If someone is green or yellow, you might want to check his liver; but if he’s an alien, he might not have a liver and might not be ill either. If you get an influx of aliens needing treatment, then you would need to devise protocols for several groups, the way we have for human blood groups. But even autism is not totally novel, or totally autistic: one is placed somewhere along a spectrum.

On the other hand, a so-called ‘novel’ virus like Covid 19 is new in a different sense, i.e. not seen before among the community of viruses, as opposed to the community of humans. But it is one of a kind, a mutation, therefore not totally novel. This notion of community is crucial, to my thinking at least. I don’t know enough about autism to have anything specific of value to say on the subject without the risk of offending someone. I shall stick to the definition in my old (1984) Longman Dictionary:

1 absorption in self-centred mental activity (eg daydreams, fantasies, delusions, and hallucinations), esp when accompanied by marked withdrawal from reality 2 …
Interestingly ‘autism’ falls between ‘authorship’ and ‘auto-‘, as if the language itself were expressing in alphabetical order how morphic resonance operates between the one and the many, suggesting that ‘self-centred mental activity’ is central to the creative process. And of course ‘auto(matic)’ encapsulates this process of moving from 1 Self operating to something self-operating – internal combustion leading to external reality.

To this extent, Definition 1 above is correct in avoiding the negative aspect of a disorder. The solitude of the autist is merely due to their position as an outlier on a spectrum. In other words, the autistic spectrum is at one end of the human spectrum: let’s call it the communication skills spectrum. Autists are at the lower end of this spectrum, but if they can find the right situation and audience as Frank has done, they are perfectly able to share their daydreams etc., which may be of immense value to the rest of humanity in getting things moving. I am thinking this spectrum forms a bell curve, with the vast majority of ‘normal’, i.e. statistically average, people bunched in the middle. At the top end, you have the highly competent elite of communication skills, the oligarchs who control the media and benefit from every type of mind control. As the main beneficiaries, they are happiest with the status quo, and when the bell curve moves away, they get nostalgic about the status quo ante. Hence there is a political overlay to this spectrum, extending from the radical progressist to the diehard reactionary, any conflict arising from attempts to shift the median point. Notice how far-leftists typically splinter into tiny groups: ‘workers of the world unite’ remains wishful thinking. Meanwhile, the ‘self-made’ oligarchs are rather good at sticking together and looking after each other’s interests. Counter-intuitive, I know, but the American dream of the self-made man rising to the top is a very useful delusion.

Avoiding politics, we may alternatively see the individual-collective relationship in terms of the herd, but we have to take the analogy all the way. A herd is nomadic, with a few leaders, the main herd and a few stragglers: a bell curve. The main motor driving the herd forward is hunger: new pastures to graze. The disturbing factor is predation; sometimes it will have to move on when it has only just arrived in some green grass. The predators will know which end of the herd to approach: the more vulnerable end, which will also be the most aware of possible danger. That awareness will be detectable as fear and restlessness, simultaneously stirring the herd to move away and… attracting the predator. So these stragglers are putting themselves in the firing-line and are the ones who will feed the lions. Viewed from the top end, they may be seen as a valuable part of the herd, in which case the leaders will be attentive to their distress and stampede away as quickly as possible to save them. Or they may be seen as expendable weaklings, in which case others will take their place, and the herd will be gradually depleted. This might happen if the enjoyment of fresh grass makes the leaders deaf to the distress signals coming from the rear. I might add that hunger is probably another distress signal coming from the rear, since the stragglers are likely undernourished, and stragglers for being undernourished. So they would keep the herd moving even when there are no predators about. They may also have dreams of becoming domestic cattle…


What is happening here is decentralized activity, a form of democracy whereby the parts interact together as an effective whole. Communication works from the bottom up; executive decisions, based on listening, work from the top down. The herd is restless at the back, creating the need for space by movement at the front. This is like saying your desire to go running comes from itchy legs, which your brain listens to but sometimes overrides. It is like paralysis in reverse, with the legs overriding a paralyzed brain. Either way, we are talking about a breakdown in communications, with top and bottom both fighting for survival. Remember Bush the elder saying, ‘if people find out what we’ve been doing, they’ll string us up off a lamppost’. That is why the elite are afraid of creativity. It turns the whole spectrum round, and they will become the stragglers liable to fall by the wayside.

More in another post.
…/…

[greybeard]

(PART 2) THE CV19 TEST IS A SCAM
According to WHO protocols, CV19 TEST has to analyze and detect human DNA

You pay your penny to take your choice.

Regardless forgetting the actual science the cure lockdown is worse than the disease
That is what really concerns me and of course I am not in denial that people have had some horrendous experiences,
Science is in labs, the suffering is in the population.
The tests are being used to justify lockdown the death rate is now minimal


https://www.awakeningchannel.com/post/part-2-the-cv19-test-is-a-scam?postId=5f57c236e09a4f0017e46b12

[Delight]

If any think that some of us have stopped posting here to mean that we have agreed with the defense of the China Virus testing is very much wrong.

I support Greybeard and others that to accept this test and the virus at face value is very much misleading.

I don't have the tenacity that others here have. To say the truth over and over against the strong sentiment of the supporters.


But arguing at the level of the ruse is tantamount to hacking at the branches. The lie is so big, so pervasive, that it is hard to imagine it can be so comprehensive. But it is and this virus is just another kind of smoke. Like in seven kinds of smoke.

Who can believe that there is such a resistance against the good, that the good can no longer see the bad. And yet it is so.

But as the nefarious groups mount their end-of-the-world gambit, the propaganda arm of their agenda has moved out of the shadows. Those who still remember the good, are entranced by the evil out in the open. The crazy inverted world-wide narrative that has captured our minds long ago, long before any of us were even born, can now easily be seen contrasted against the silent good. The insane arguments of those affiliated with the evil thugs, whether consciously or not, are blatant lies accepted as truth.

As the violence and the rhetoric reaches its crescendo the screaming, whining, belligerent voices of the lost float around looking for openings in weak minds to invade. While authority loses its credibility, the rabble sounds the death knell of their adopted death cult. Burn it down!, they yell, trying desperately to drown out the voices of reason - voices of the people, neither authoritative nor speculative, that still remember the good.

Our entire body of knowledge has been subverted, high jacked: our history; our science; our philosophy; our arts; our future.

It is our fault because we accepted what was convenient, expedient. We knew better, we know better, those that still remember the good.

So go ahead, hack at branches, and cause division where there is none.

As for the various topics discussing the naked king, must we argue about each piece of fictional clothing?

Ernie,
You are a poet. You are empathic. You are intelligent with a flow from heart to "mind". You know through the heart and check through the mind: Is what I am "observing" congruent. That is the path to knowing from the center. You are willing to rouse yourself to change what you do in accordance with your knowing. You check again and again. Course correct. You speak less than you listen. YOU LOVE what you touch with your material hands and emanate your energy willingly as a healing to those around around you. You are LIVING intact with your beingness.

I wrote this earlier this week when in despair.


(I thought) in some intangible way, being connected to PA was like having a pathway to share my FAITH (as in feeling from the End, gratitude that this HAS HAPPENED). WE are Happy and Free. I do feel LOVE will win the day. I feel fear however.

There a looming EVIL is seemingly walking tall on empty streets as all the people have been shut away with the GOOD. Yes, that is MY fear.

I really really really need to change my (tiny micro) world by changing my vision. This is how we change the WHOLE IMO, one world at a time.

My understanding at this time is that we have to take into consideration the Observer effect on all "results" of material reality. There is always a bias based on that realm IN US that is relegated to The Spiritual but could also be called the imaginal. That has been assigned to the POET and called unreal... however as Jon rappaport always talks about, the imagination is REAL.


about imagination May
3
by Jon Rappoport
by Jon Rappoport

Imagination is as natural and real as breathing. People who don’t know this or forget it come up against a brick wall.

Some of them then go to booze and drugs, some to violence, some to despair, some to the straitjacket of a severely repetitive mechanical life, some to the dull, dull ground of passivity.

Life is not a machine. Humans are not machines, although they often play one day after day.

Humans are creative.

They can step on that, try to grind it into dust, make up a thousand excuses, but the fact remains.

Societies and civilizations are never creative, after a certain point in their development. They opt for standard shapes and standard patterns of thought and standard organizations.

This devolution isn’t just the “the strong controlling the weak.”

It’s a subconscious impulse that spreads like a disease. Throughout history, you see it manifest in many forms.

These days, we have the massive Surveillance State. It’s an expression of “the standard human who must think and act in certain ways.”

Imagination puts the lie to all this.

Imagination goes anywhere you want it to, and in the process, you discover ideas and realms and dimensions and power that would otherwise have remained invisible to the end of time.

This is the natural state of affairs.

Everything else is programming.

Programming comes in two forms: what is done to the individual, and what he does to himself.

Every spiritual system and spiritual teaching, down through history, has initially or eventually discarded imagination and thrown it on the junk-heap.

It’s long past the time to reverse that trend.

The creative power of the individual, which is the key to his future, his happiness, his freedom, flows from his imagination.

The FACT is that much of what the Poetic imagineer in us accesses is symbolic, mythic, metanormal, metaphysic. This process reaches out and imagines a hypothesis (and it could be about a falling apple OR even the afterlife....)

There is IMO a war being waged which is maybe the perennial fight we have read about about through myth and legend. The sons of light and sons of dark. I see this as sons of LIFE and sons of Death (not the small life and death but the ARCHETYPICAL ENTROPY force overcoming and achieving NEGATION).

As Rappaport states, any SYSTEM whether it describes itself as "spiritual" or "scientific", when it throws out imagination, it throws out creativity. Creativity is LIFE. I call it the GOOD. The end of creativity is the winding down, the ENTROPY


the degradation of the matter and energy in the universe to an ultimate state of inert uniformity
Entropy is the general trend of the universe toward death and disorder.
— James R. Newman

I have to continuously reiterate the truth to myself as I keep feeling the FEAR that Death whispers... you have no effect on the world. It is beyond your control. It is dying around you. You are not the "creator".

BUT maybe this is a simulation? (many threads ask this question). And in a simulation, we are playing a game. It is lawful but we learn and get more elegant. We practice various skills. We learn form the consequences of CHOICE.

Let me take this "model" and use it. I WILL CHOOSE to be creator, to OBSERVE LIFE unfolding, not death denying.

YES!! the LEAP is to BEING responsible for OBSERVING LIFE and being CREATIVE. This is IMO the warring duality. It is inner conflict, not outer. We are all engaged and will never get it wrong. The shadow, evil, all of this LOOKS LARGE as the LIGHT GROWS in Intensity.

I have to post this to remind myself. The UNIverse is Conspiring in My favor. WE planned it this way.

[Bill Ryan]

According to this article, scientists have analyzed 2,492 genome sequences of SARS-CoV-2 strains up to 30 March 2020.Update: the number of sequences done (https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sars-cov-2/) is now 51,998. (Probably >52,000 by the time you've finished reading this post!)

The lab techniques to isolate the virus for gene sequencing are different from fast-track, thousands-in-a day, drive-thru clinical testing. (And yes, that testing is (a) misused, (b) misreported, and (c) a very blunt instrument.)

My advice to [some] members reading this:

Focus on government and international agendas. Not the science of what the virus is — because many posting, despite their good intentions, still don't understand this all very well.

Those well-meaning folks are often just mixing everything up into a giant stirred-up stew that's


frequently inaccurate or not fully accurate (and sometimes just plain wrong)
confusing to many reading this stuff. (I've been told this by visitors.)

And making one-sentence statements that "it's just like the flu" helps no-one. (Certainly not those who have the thing.) People were saying this in January!

If people reading this don't fully understand what the heck a virus is after 8 months of discussion and an enormous amount of simplified, well-illustrated, publicly available information, the odds may be against suddenly having an 'Aha' moment and understanding it all now.

My own frustration is that I've done my very best to explain things, taking great care with my posts for accumulated hours and hours and hours, and the reaction is [sometimes] that I'm just some kind of orthodox-science, limited-intellect, closed-minded authority figure.

If that's what you think I am, after all this time, then please leave now. I mean it. Get the hell outta here. You've not learned a thing about myself or Avalon.

Whether you think the virus is real or not, it's how the authorities are handling it all that matters. Nothing else.

Get real, get focused, and get your priorities right.

:focus: (whatever that is!)

[greybeard]

It might be helpful to listen to all of the video.
In a statement I made that there is no test that can tell the difference between the flu and the virus there is an acceptance that there is flu and virus -

David Icke is no fool and asks good questions on the video.

I have not minimized the virus or flu.
I have not minimized the effects of lockdown.

There one enemy here and this has been continually addressed.
This is not about my opinion which like everyone else can be flawed and yes experts can be wrong.
However, the tests are being weaponised and one way to stop this is to show the tests are not fit for purpose -- The gold standard is important (isolating the virus) .
Its made clear towards the end of the video the tests are not valid

Not my words

A test will show up positive in a person who is perfectly health.
Then lockdown happens, justified not by illness but by a faulty result.
Simple
I follow David Icke and he has it right to my mind, as the video shows.
Chris

[Delight]

Focus on government and international agendas. Not the science of what the virus is — because many posting, despite their good intentions, still don't understand this all very well.

With sincerity I ask.....

Given that you see (our) attempt to discredit the platform on which draconian shutdowns were based is mixed up and confused,What do you recommend be focused on? What and how to focus on our response to government and international agendas?
Maybe you have spelled it out?

The thing about trying to say no REAL difference community wide between flu vs covid....
That is probably because WE have been so confused by the incongruous evidence
hospitals empty
ETC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Maybe the incessant focus on the validity of PCR testing etc. is the attempt to find a way to stop the COUNT?
That is so we won't be driven by case count
That is so the gov won't destroy our small business/livlihood? based on "covid" cases.

This is all so IMPRECISE.

I would like your advice again please.

[araucaria]

…/…
I’ve been reading Jon Rappoport’s The Matrix Revealed volume I, interviews with Jack True (my thanks to Wegge for this). Jack True was a hypnotherapist who used minimal or even zero hypnosis to... wake people up by enabling them to activate their Imagination (creativity); make everyone an artist of their reality. One person at a time. There is many a True statement in this material (pun intended), but I feel there is a slight problem of emphasis: he naturally focusses on the individual focussing on him/herself, so much so that his method could almost be called ‘How to become an autist’. While there is some mention of how this may fit in with the human collective, the piece of creative writing in my previous post is intended to start filling this gap. This is necessary, because as it stands, True’s idea of Truth amounts to little more than, quote, a ‘coagulated slow-moving tiresome unified story’. His therapy consists in getting each person, quote, ‘to tell his own invented no-holds-barred story in 126589435603 dimensions’. However, some of his patients actually reject the results of their lengthy and successful treatment, and fall back into their old ways. While their reasons and motives are shall we say unenlightened, they do show grounding in the collective. One True statement that I do take issue with is his ‘grounding is overrated’. I beg to differ: prompting unlimited no-holds-barred stories comes perilously close to a recipe for creating an epidemic of autism in the pathological sense, which is to defeat the stated purpose of the whole enterprise, through anarchy.

I also find this individual approach in Michael Newton’s work on past lives. Each of his patients comes here with a certain number of problems to work out, with little or no care for the overall evolution or wellbeing of the planet or the human race. However, unlike Jack True’s ‘Matrix’ to which one must awaken in order to transcend it, Newton’s work highlights the Earth as a school or training ground for souls of different ages and abilities. From this standpoint, a number of aspects that True wants us to climb out of make a lot of sense – one being the sense of boredom at endlessly repeating the same old same old.

In the Earth-as-training-ground model, what you have is souls practising skills, which is a repetitive and ultimately boring process. It comes perilously close to Einstein’s definition of madness: doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result. Learning drills prove the method in this madness, for the result does improve imperceptibly. Where I live, each year at about this time, we have dozens of young swallows endlessly circling overhead. They are honing their flying skills but also doing endurance training. They may have fun learning not to make mistakes by making them in safe conditions – non-lethal danger. For all I know, they may get bored with the repetition as they become more proficient. But come the migration to Africa, they will be glad to have put in the extra miles in order to negotiate the Mediterranean and perhaps the Sahara on the other side. The stragglers falling into the sea or sand may be ones that have not done the spadework. There will also be some experienced trainers among those birds, but from down here one cannot tell which is which. Likewise, transposing to the earth experience, we cannot tell if any particular individual is a beginner or a teacher.

Drawing a tentative conclusion: while Jack True’s model is in conflict with Michael Newton’s, the reverse is not the case. Individual students reaching for their personal limits, all very different, is no longer anarchical but quite orderly in a learning situation. But there will always be teachers in the mix, not always identifiable as such. Teachers too make mistakes and learn things. Or they may be doing something wrong in order to show what is being done wrong. Or they may be acting the villain of the highest order, as a punching-ball to be fought against. As Jack True likes to say, it all comes out in the wash. Alternatively, some of the more gifted students might be mistaken for teachers. Then comes a time of graduation: the school will not be destroyed, but the blackboards will be wiped for a fresh influx of students.

What this all means for the Avalon forum is that we also probably have teachers and students, although which is which, and when, is usually moot. They do all kinds of strange things, that’s for sure. But there is a collective discipline lending structure to the whole enterprise; a collective discipline that may well get undermined by students about to graduate or leave. Let me close with one final True statement that is doubtless not false: ‘Confusion is part of the process.’

[greybeard]

I strongly suggest that the whole video is listened to.
It goes on to talk about the effects of wearing masks -- the adverse effect on children.
This is serious.
Bearing in mind the Dr is also a psychologist.
He is giving good suggestions a lot more in the video than just the tests.
Chris

[Gracy]

Maybe, just maybe, we can see better now why Wade says we must sing in the choir - because we must stand in solidarity. Without singing from the same hymnal, we are easily picked off one by one by our own biases and prejudices.

Exercise great care in choosing the right choir then Ernie.

If I find myself in a Walking Dead zombie apocalypse scenario, I know I need to get with a group to survive. But I'm not just going to choose any group, and it sure is heck won't be the one that's loudest, and trying to pressure me in.

No way Jose, I'm going with a group that's playing it smart. The loud groups may indeed be good people, but loud just winds up getting people killed, and that's not what I'm looking for.

[onawah]

EXPOSING MODERNA; THE STAR OF PLANDEMIC: INDOCTORNATION REVEALS THE TRUTH
(This should definitely not be lost in the shuffle! Clear example of Scientific Materialism at it's sickest and most blatant, undeniably incriminating Fauci and Gates.)
Dr. David E. Martin
536,800 views •
September 7, 2020
https://freedomplatform.tv/david-e-martin-exposing-moderna-the-star-of-plandemic-indoctrination-reveals-the-truth/

"Guest on the Plandemic: Indoctornation documentary
Until recently best known as the founder of M·CAM®, the international leader in innovation finance, trade, and intangible asset finance, David E. Martin is a modern day renaissance man, whose roles have included Professor, Lecturer, Chairman and CEO.

From the halls of parliament to HBO comedy and documentary films such as the internationally acclaimed and multi-awarded Patent Wars and Future Dreaming, Dr. Martin takes on some of the world’s most complex economic and social themes using solutions that he’s successfully deployed in his work with over 160 countries.

He recently appeared in Mikki Willis’ documentary, Plandemic: Indoctornation where he revealed the truth behind the vaccine agenda and how following the money had led him to a number of conclusions about what is really going on during the Coronavirus crisis.

With Plandemic: Indoctornation being viewed over 5.7 million times on the Digital Freedom Platform alone, David has become an important voice as part of informed discourse around Coronavirus and our response as a society, with his recent research continuing to focus on vaccines, patents and the role of companies such as Moderna.

David’s other work includes financial engineering and investment, public speaking and writing, he has also served as an advisor to numerous Central Banks, global economic forums, the World Bank and International Finance Corporation and national governments around the world.

He has been instrumental in rebuilding lives and livelihoods in post-conflict, post-colonial, and environmentally devastated regions of the world. He is the architect for the world’s first public equity quantitative market index based on human innovation.

Dr. Martin has publications in law, medicine, engineering, finance, and education. He maintains active research in the fields of linguistic genomics, fractal financial-risk modelling, and cellular membrane ionic signaling. In a televised speech in 2006, David correctly forecast the U.S. housing financial crisis and identified it as a catalyst for the 2008 Global Financial Crisis.

His investment funds, banking businesses and global trade network return extraordinary results by measuring all the field effects of every endeavour. He is also the author of the novel Coup D’Twelve: The Enterprise that Bought the Presidency – now optioned for theatrical release.

Described as a futurist, fulcrum ninja, economist and global business executive, David disarms the most ardent pessimists, showing that with a flexible perspective, we can tackle any perceived problem and achieve extraordinary outcomes."

wdqwD5pshX2P/

EXPOSING MODERNA; THE STAR OF PLANDEMIC: INDOCTORNATION REVEALS THE TRUTH (https://www.bitchute.com/video/wdqwD5pshX2P/)

(In the face of such blatant perfidy, it seems to me that the issue of how accurate the Covid test is pales in comparison, and clearly shows how and why public trust in the "accepted authorities" has eroded, whether that distrust is arrived at by instinct, intuition, or mental acuity, or whatever. Can we agree on that at least? )

[Delight]

Human 2.0 in light of Scientific Materialism.....(perceiving man as biological machine)

I suspect that IF a large number of people are eliminated from the planet, it would not bother people who are committed to engineering the new human 2.0?



Does science undermine human rights? No, But Materialism Might. (https://blog.drwile.com/does-science-undermine-human-rights-no-but-materialism-might/)Professor & Associate Dean of Social Sciences at the University of California, San Diego. He wrote an article for New Scientist in which he summarizes his original research, published in an Oxford University Press book entitled, What is a Human? What the Answers Mean for Human Rights. In this research, he surveyed 3,500 adults in the United States, asking their opinions on humans and human rights.

He started by asking them how much they agreed with three different definitions for human beings:

I. The Biological Definition: Humans are defined (and differentiated from the animals) by their DNA.

II. The Philosophical Definition: Humans are defined by specific traits, like self-awareness and rationality.

III. The Theological Definition: Humans are created beings that have been given the image of God.

Here is how he describes the questions that followed:

I also asked them how much they agreed with four statements about humans: that they are like machines; special compared with animals; unique; and all of equal value. These questions were designed to assess whether any of the three competing definitions are associated with ideas that could have a negative effect on how we treat one another.

I finished with a series of direct questions about human rights: whether we should risk soldiers to stop a genocide in a foreign country; be allowed to buy kidneys from poor people; have terminally ill people die by suicide to save money; take blood from prisoners without their consent; or torture terror suspects to potentially save lives.

His results were quite surprising to me, but not to those who promote the Argument From Morality.


He found that only 25% of the public agreed with what he called the “biological” definition of a human being. That’s good news, since I think it is the worst possible definition of a human being. Scientifically, it is quite clear that we are much, much more than our DNA. Nevertheless, I would think that anyone who is a materialist (a person who thinks that life on earth, and human beings in particular, are just the result of natural processes) would have to agree with that definition. Such a person might also agree with the philosophical definition, but in the end, he or she would have to agree that at best, the traits that define human beings in the philosophical definition are solely the product of the human being’s DNA and environment. Ultimately, then, they are back to the biological definition for human beings.

The bad news is that for those 25%, their views on human rights are more likely to be immoral. The more the respondents agreed with the biological definition of life, the more likely they were to think of people as machines, the less likely they were to see humans as unique, and the less likely they were to agree that all people are of equal worth! As the italics indicate, I find that last statement to be the most shocking. Even from a purely materialist point of view, one should be able to see that all people are of equal worth. After all, to the materialist, we are all products of the same evolutionary process and have essentially the same DNA. Thus, from a logical point of view, we should all be of equal worth, even to the materialist. Dr. Evans’s research seems to indicate that isn’t true.

When it comes to human rights, the results are even more shocking. The more the respondents agreed with the biological definition of life, the less likely they were to say that we should risk soldiers to stop genocide. They were also more likely to say that we should be able to buy kidneys from poor people, have terminally ill people commit suicide to save money, and take blood from prisoners against their will. As Dr. Evans concludes:

People who agree with the biological definition of a human are also more likely to hold views inconsistent with human rights.

Now, of course, Dr. Evans indicates that his study is not the last word on the topic, and that’s clearly true. Also, he makes the important point that his study was about what people think, not what they actually do. It’s possible that when it comes to the actions they take, people’s view on the definition of a human being doesn’t play nearly as important a role. Nevertheless, his results are striking.

https://static.scientificamerican.com/sciam/assets/Image/mindinpicturesmay2016.jpg

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kurzweilai.net%2Fimages%2Fvitamoreprimo02.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

"Man Computer Symbiosis" approaching.

Listening to people talk about their passion for Human 2.0, I hear that they are passionately committed, excited and feel THIS is where we want to head. There may not be a place for those who lag behind?


November 1st, 2017 Human AI Collaboration: A Dynamic Frontier Conference; Amy Kruse, Chief Scientific Officer, Platypus Institute looks at...

1. The Centaur vision blends the analytical powers of the human brain with those of a computer to create a novel, super-powered system.
2. The most exciting uses of artificial intelligence technology will not be performing “black box” analytics, but rather bringing to life J.C.R. Licklider’s dream of “Human Computer Symbiosis.”
3. We understand the architecture, key components and data flows needed to actually build a Centaur.
4. The centaur approach will have an impact on many domains and exciting application areas.

vDQMB5m0S6A


We are becoming the first generation of living beings in billions of years that knows its genetic code and can change it and with it the fate of the planet. Is humanity – and life on earth – at a turning point? Are we walking towards the Garden of Eden or turning our backs forever to it?

i4RcFdM0yPA

[onawah]

Vaccine Patent Warned of "Deliberate Coronavirus Release" 9 Month's Before COVID-19
20,554 views•Sep 7, 2020
Ben Swann
153K subscribers

"Newly unearthed documents from Moderna Pharmaceuticals Covid patent application include a claim of concern about a "deliberate release of SARS coronavirus" 9 months before the official emergence of Covid-19. In addition, it turns out that Moderna may not have the legal right to even release its vaccine in the next few weeks because the company appears to be infringing on an exisiting patent for the core technology. Is this why Moderna's executives are selling their stock?"
msykwjpwG6Q

And here:
Pandemic Skeptics...Proven Right!
21,413 views•Streamed live 7 hours ago
RonPaulLibertyReport
245K subscribers

"Was the whole coronavirus panic set off by a faulty understanding of the difference between infection fatality rate and case fatality rate? One doctor in the UK makes a strong case that the mania was set off by a math mistake. Also today, more mainstream outlets concluding that lockdowns were a terrible mistake. SF government gyms remain open while commercial gyms driven out of business. Baseball madness, as Nationals general manager ejected from game...for no mask in his own private booth in an empty stadium!"
5JqH0Y_jcT4

(It will take longer for it to sink in for most people that the "mistake" was most likely deliberate, evinced by all the secret previous planning.)

[onawah]

MSOM SPECIAL REPORT SR5: Exposure - The Electromagnetic Human Test - James Grundvig
1,940 views•Sep 7, 2020
Making Sense Of The Madness
(Also posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100537-Stop-5G-before-it-s-irreversible-&p=1376941&viewfull=1#post1376941 )
Transcript here: https://johnmichaelchambers.com/5g-exposure-the-electromagnetic-human-test/
QPzGKClDvtQ

[Ernie Nemeth]

Bill:
My own frustration is that I've done my very best to explain things, taking great care with my posts for accumulated hours and hours and hours, and the reaction is [sometimes] that I'm just some kind of orthodox-science, limited-intellect, closed-minded authority figure.

I hear you. I know where my allegiance lies. If it seems otherwise, I am sorry.

I always root for the underdog, and here it seems I have done it again. But if the words are read carefully I agreed with not accepting the epidemic at face value.

The fact of whether there is or is not an actual virus does not mitigate the very real fear the public has, or the confusion on how to respond to it. And because so much disinformation has mixed with the facts, it is not even clear that every response was and is still being implemented in various countries. From no lock down and no face masks to stage four dictatorial house arrest and Gestapo-type check points, everything has been tried.

As far as can be confirmed, no specific response has had better results than any other, except that it is fact that the collateral damage from severe draconian responses has caused the most harm. Some of that damage can be reversed, some is permanent.

It is also true that many are rethinking their lifestyles, and many are re-prioritizing what they consider important. It is unclear yet what consequences that will have. Indicators seem to point to major readjustments with a possibility of a profound impact on society going forward. Time will tell.



Gracy May:
e: Scientific Materialism versus Truth
Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Maybe, just maybe, we can see better now why Wade says we must sing in the choir - because we must stand in solidarity. Without singing from the same hymnal, we are easily picked off one by one by our own biases and prejudices.


Exercise great care in choosing the right choir then Ernie.

If I find myself in a Walking Dead zombie apocalypse scenario, I know I need to get with a group to survive. But I'm not just going to choose any group, and it sure is heck won't be the one that's loudest, and trying to pressure me in.

No way Jose, I'm going with a group that's playing it smart. The loud groups may indeed be good people, but loud just winds up getting people killed, and that's not what I'm looking for.


I truly hope you never find yourself in a zombie apocalypse - but we have been given lots of training by Hollywood in that regard, haven't we?

The chorus of the song that choir sings is the reality of dirt cheap unlimited energy that will catapult humanity into an entirely novel epoch of abundance and fulfillment. The verses speak of that future and attempt to clarify the need for unity in order to bring that reality to fruition.
Some of the fine details are contentious to some but the meat of the matter is evident.


Not sure why scientific materialism has to conflict with truth. It is merely another perspective, worthy of every consideration, so long as the bias of that perspective is kept clearly in mind. Every perspective has its blind spots and no one has a monopoly on truth.

[greybeard]

I agree that not enough attention is given to what may well be the reason behind all this media fear mongering.
Its good to look at Global Reset, New World Order and what may be going into vaccines.

The thought that there is a plot to reduce the human population and to interfere with the DNA -- insert chips via injection is so over the top to not be believed by most.
That does not make it untrue.

I support most of what David Icke says I do not support the website in which the video I recently posted appears.
Its policy--statements, takes away from another wise excellent video.

New information put out by Onawah is very important.
Her research second to none.

I have long felt that the law --- legality - will be the main way to defeat the cabal.
This is why I have reposted legal challenges which I have donated to.
There is little mention of these legal challenges in the UK media.

The media continues to fear monger as does the Government.


Gatherings of more than six people at home to be banned again in England amid fears of second coronavirus wave

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/gatherings-more-six-people-home-211232676.html


Chris

[Jayke]

Some fallacies of physics.

Scientific materialism really kickstarted with Einstein’s dismissal of the aether theory.

Wilhelm Reich didn’t sound too impressed with Einstein in his book ‘The Function of the Orgasm’. I’d always been put off reading this book because after the sexual revolution of the 60’s and today’s hedonistic society, well who doesn’t know about about orgasms? Turns out this book is way more than just his theories on sexual energy, it’s an autobiography of his entire intellectual career from his work as a psychoanalyst under Freud, to why he broke away from the psychoanalytical crowd and began his own career researching different topics.

He was working as a psychoanalyst when Einstein’s theories were being promoted, of which he found Einstein’s theory of lifeless rocks floating around in space to sound a lot like the “return to the womb fantasies” his psychosis patients had been describing.

There was an experiment that was conducted around that time. The Michelson-Morley experiment, which was set up to prove or disprove the ancient aether theory of physics. Einstein said of the experiment that if aether drift proved accurate his theory of relativity would “collapse like a house of cards”.

James DeMeo has a great book detailing the controversy and shows how the harbingers of materialism falsified and ignored the results in order to keep their materialistic worldview intact.

============

http://www.orgonelab.org/cart/xdemeo.htm





THE DYNAMIC ETHER OF COSMIC SPACE:
CORRECTING A MAJOR ERROR IN MODERN SCIENCE,
by James DeMeo, PhD
Over 400 pages with 100+ photos and illustrations, references, index and two appendices.

The Cosmic Ether Changes Everything!

The historical ether-drift experiments of Michelson-Morley, Dayton Miller and others yielded positive results for an ether wind and light-speed variations of 5 to 18 kilometers per second. Academic bias and erasure has misrepresented these facts for over 120 years, to the point that few dare question today. Scientist James DeMeo reviews the original documents and archives, exposing the facts which demolish nearly all of the post-ether astrophysical theories, including Einstein's relativity, the "big bang", "black holes" and quantum magic. Cosmic ether exists and moves in a creative gravitational spiral vortex, as the long-sought prime mover and life-energy. A must-read item for the professional scientist, educated layperson and student, in ordinary language with minimal maths.

Part I, Cosmic Ether as Theory and Experimentally Confirmed Fact, includes 8 different chapters which firstly introduces the concept of ether, then details the late 18th and 19th Century experimenters who made its detection by increasingly sophisticated instruments. The interferometer experiments of Dayton Miller are introduced, exposing facts by direct quotations from their publications in mainstream science journals, of multiple positive detections of the ether. In most every case, from the early to the more recent ether-drift experiments, the cosmic axis of Earth's motion in space, in right ascension and declination were in close agreement with the Sun's motion through the galaxy, towards the star Vega. These experiments provide evidence violating a major starting assumption for Einstein's theory of relativity, showing that light speed is variable, depending upon direction in the cosmos.

Part II, The Empire Strikes Back: Erasure, Mystification and Falsification of History, covers the rise of Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, and how he and his supporters managed to obscure and ignore the positive outcomes of the various ether-drift experiments. It also details the unethical "hatchet-job" against Dayton Miller's ether research, years after his death, by Einstein sycophant Robert Shankland, whose paper is still cited today as "definitive proof against Miller's ether-drift findings". That, it most certainly was not! Einstein's originally friendly, but later dismissive treatment of Miller is detailed, including his statements in private letters wherein he expressed deep concern that, if Miller's work was correct, then his theory of relativity would "collapse like a house of cards".

Part III, Into New Territory: Additional Evidence for a Material, Motional and Dynamic Ether, Dr. DeMeo overview findings from different disciplines, for a biologically-active and water-reactive cosmic life-energy. These findings are very agreeable to those of the ether-drift scientists, who postulated a material entrained ether. Direct evidence for the cosmic ether and ether-wind, by other names, are shown to have cosmic motions nearly identical to the older ether-drift findings: the interstellar wind, dark matter wind, cosmic ray wind, neutrino wind, and so forth. Seventeen different cosmological factors with nearly identical cosmic azimuth directions are identified in this study, integrating the older ether-drift findings with modern astronomy! The serious implications for modern astrophysical theory are detailed, even while empirical astronomy and space science engineering remain unchallenged. All the post-ether astrophysical theories are shown to be mired in mysticism and unproven assumptions.

The Dynamic Ether of Cosmic Space provides over 100 photos and graphical illustrations, with full references, an index, glossary and two Appendices. It is developed for the educated layperson and student, but most scientific professionals will find it eye-opening and refreshing.

A dynamic cosmic energy in space changes everything, indeed!
============

Out of the theory of relativity comes the world of quantum. Eric Dollard describes Quantum Mechanics as a “khazarian circle jerk” but that doesn’t stop the industry and the billions of dollars of funding that’s been injected into it.

There’s an electrical engineer who proposes a debunking of the ‘double split experiment’. The wave/particle paradox that the world of quantum builds its foundations on. His evidence shows the paradox can be explained, not by light being both a particle and a wave, but simply by the limitations of the measuring equipment that records the results, which gives the illusion of their being both a particle and a wave.

NJjO2J7HTF8If so much of our modern understanding of science is built on false premises, does some of this confusion spill over into the world of viruses. Wilhelm Reich did some interesting work in his Book ‘The Cancer Biopathy (https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374510145)’, which proposed a new theory of how disease enters and multiplies within the body. It’s no wonder his books were burned and censored after he was jailed and died in prison for his sins of questioning medical orthodoxy. But his research does prove there’s more to the phenomenon of disease than the majority of scientists that conduct today’s studies are aware of today.

[greybeard]

"If so much of our modern understanding of science is built on false premises, does some of this confusion spill over into the world of viruses. Wilhelm Reich did some interesting work in his Book ‘The Cancer Biopathy’, which proposed a new theory of how disease enters and multiplies within the body. It’s no wonder his books were burned and censored after he was jailed and died in prison for his sins of questioning medical orthodoxy. But his research does prove there’s more to the phenomenon of disease than the majority of scientists that conduct today’s studies are aware of today. "

Thanks for this Jake, not throwing the baby out with the bath water, we are indebted to science for so much.
However, I think The Exome Theory is well worth investigating, any new theory will perhaps be rubbished by the establishment.
Eventually it will be proved valid or otherwise.
Professor Dolores Cahill said that the body is full of viruses waiting for something to trigger them.
Dont know if she was alluding to Exome theory or not.
All a mystery to me as yet but I am curious about this theory.
Chris

[Jayke]

"If so much of our modern understanding of science is built on false premises, does some of this confusion spill over into the world of viruses. Wilhelm Reich did some interesting work in his Book ‘The Cancer Biopathy’, which proposed a new theory of how disease enters and multiplies within the body. It’s no wonder his books were burned and censored after he was jailed and died in prison for his sins of questioning medical orthodoxy. But his research does prove there’s more to the phenomenon of disease than the majority of scientists that conduct today’s studies are aware of today. "

Thanks for this Jake, not throwing the baby out with the bath water, we are indebted to science for so much.
However, I think The Exome Theory is well worth investigating, any new theory will perhaps be rubbished by the establishment.
Eventually it will be proved valid or otherwise.
Professor Dolores Cahill said that the body is full of viruses waiting for something to trigger them.
Dont know if she was alluding to Exome theory or not.
All a mystery to me as yet but I am curious about this theory.
Chris

Just to clarify, I didn't suggest to throw the exome theory out altogether. It's more the notions of whether we 'catch' a virus from others, or like Delores cahill says, are pre-existing cells activated through internal and external environmental conditions.

[onawah]

The sciences never having been my strong suit, I wasn't aware of that earlier origin of the term "scientific materialism".
When I entitled this thread, I was thinking more along the lines of how I've been seeing the term used more recently, describing how profit has become the goal of so much science today, rather than arriving at truth, or improving the lot of humankind.
I didn't realize Reich shared the same tragic fate as Tesla and so many other martyrs to Truth.
May this crucible we are suffering through now lead to a new era where science becomes truly humanitarian rather than a tool and plaything for the greedy and power-hungry...
As we are reminded of those heroes, we can at least send them all a silent message of gratitude for all that they sacrificed.
My hope is that the more those of us who can see the forest for the trees expose the lies, the less self-sacrifice will be the price for revealing the truth.
Thanks for your considered contributions!

Some fallacies of physics.

Scientific materialism really kickstarted with Einstein’s dismissal of the aether theory.

[araucaria]

Scientific materialism may break down in the micro world of quantum physics, and there may have been a wrong turning taken in early 20th-century science. But it works well enough on the macro level of everyday reality, in a court of law, for example, where corroborating evidence rightly takes precedence over intimate convictions. Forensic science is important in many ways known and yet unknown. One being Bayesian statistics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_statistics) applied to tax fraud: the numbers added up, but they were demonstrably made-up numbers. See this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83133-The-Corey-Goode-affair-various-updates-from-David-Wilcock&p=985830&viewfull=1#post985830).

There are three areas where (deliberate) error, stealth and deception are strategic tools: warfare, crime, and government. In war, resistance fighters can make these things ethically justified when defending against an aggressor. Criminals use these devices to dodge responsibility by hiding their crime or making it look accidental. And governments have all sorts of layers of secrecy to paper over the gap between their promises and their action.

Government and crime. This is an area that calls for full spectrum treatment. Whenever stealth is used, the forensic approach will be necessary. However, we have reached the point where in-your-face truth is being served up. Only the other day, the British government brazenly admitted in Parliament that it intended to break international law. This crime is not only in the mainstream newspapers, it is there in the official video (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/sep/08/new-brexit-bill-does-break-international-law-says-northern-ireland-secretary-video) parliamentary record.
You don’t need to be a scientist to witness this in flagrante delicto. Here scientific materialist inquiry makes way for simple truth for the whole world to see and hear from the horse’s mouth. Something else we get to see: every week Boris Johnson stands squirming in parliament facing the opposition as if he were in the dock under cross-examination by the former director of public prosecutions Keir Starmer. See this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111172-Were-the-Mayans-correct-after-all&p=1367816&viewfull=1#post1367816). In such cases, there is no distinction required between criminality and incompetence because you are dealing at best with criminal incompetence/negligence, which is incompetence with some degree of probable intent. The criminal element came to the surface the other day – only with a reversal of roles, with Johnson accusing Starmer of being a former terrorist (IRA) sympathizer.

Here is a recent fairly trivial example. The other day, tennis champion Novak Djokovic was thrown out of the US Open for hitting a ball in anger that struck a line judge, after losing a couple of important games. Had it not hit anyone (in an empty stadium), he would have got off with a warning, but the punishment is automatic because it is always a dangerous thing to do. One of the challenges of this sport is learning to let off steam in ways that don’t hurt people, i.e. deal with internal issues with no external violence. Whatever the source or nature of the Covid virus, the elite are behaving exactly in the same fashion; they are losing their grip on the power game, and taking it out on people. They are totally out of line long before they begin murdering virus sufferers. The next question being, is that what they are doing?

Note, the above is not a blanket statement. Pandemic precautions being what they are, i.e. things a fascist dictatorship might impose, a benevolent government (I believe they do exist) needs to make sure it is understood as acting in one’s best interests. Measures from lengthy hospitalization down to quarantining and face masks are not automatically equitable with stealing our freedoms, provided the threat is real.

Government and warfare. Stealth is a weapon of war. In 1944, Eisenhower took every step to feint a landing across the Straits of Dover before landing in Normandy. What we are talking about here is the next level up: war by stealth. This is nothing new: the CIA has been conducting clandestine wars around the world for seventy years. Economics and political unrest have been the usual weapons, but even a pandemic is nothing new.

I remember Macron saying at the beginning of the pandemic, ‘We are at war’. This begins to make some sense when we consider that a virus is another weapon of war, and would be an ideal one for a war by stealth. See this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111901-Vaccine-ingredients&p=1375520&viewfull=1#post1375520).
We have a good idea of the conflicting forces, but we are not always sure who or what is one which side. As I describe in the above linked post, the Covid virus is ambiguous. Is it a harmless virus with sometimes devastating effects, or a killer virus that is mostly pretty harmless. If it were human, it would be a secret agent, possibly a double agent.

This is a grey area along a spectrum having scientific materialism at one end and absolute truth at the other. Absolute truth I take to be the totality of reality; relative truth an individual perception of that reality. What humanity needs is somewhere in between: a global truth that parcels together 8 billion individual perceptions, in other words a workable minimum of peace. This spectrum includes a parameter we call causality. At the causal end, you have scientific materialism, with particles of matter behaving causally. Of course, there comes a point when the tiniest particles turn out to behave acausally/unpredictably and science freaks out. At the acausal end, you have absolute truth, where everything is at the same time; I quoted Jack True: confusion is part of the process. The huge grey area in the middle I call concomitance (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110418-Let--s-open-some-gates-and-windows&p=1353226&viewfull=1#post1353226).



Things happen because everything happens. Causality is just our way of stringing them together and trying to make sense of the world. There may be an acausal link within a given particle/thing/individual. The virus as described above could go through both slits in the double-slit experiment. Likewise, Donald Trump might have two souls, making him a double agent, although on a different level than working for Russia. ‘Making America great again’ is a two-edged slogan. When was America last great? A very long time ago, some would say.

I have a great deal of work to do on this subject of concomitance, but even within the domain of causality, a hidden cause or operative can always override an overt one. If you want to harm Putin, for instance, you could do worse that poison his main opponent and blame Putin. But then again, Putin could be using this as his excuse: he didn’t do it but the job was done. But then again… This is what happens when deception takes over.

Here is an interesting thought from today’s Le Monde newspaper (https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2020/08/26/covid-19-pourquoi-la-hausse-des-cas-ne-permet-pas-encore-de-conclure-a-une-deuxieme-vague_6050010_4355770.html). (In French)
In France, in late August, positive cases had soared to their April peak (and now are way above), and yet there are hardly any deaths (3% of the maximum rate) or even hospitalizations (4%). The article concludes by explaining how five times more tests producing the same number of positives suggests that back then there must have been not 7,000 cases but 100,000 – demonstrating both that back then the virus was fifteen times less lethal than supposed, and that the current numbers are still lower than in April, although up on June/July. Donald Trump says the same thing and is laughed at by all and sundry. Why? Perhaps because all and sundry are seeing his ‘other soul’ being dumb as usual. It would suit his smarter side to keep out of sight.

[greybeard]

araucaria
I love your examples, very relevant.
Chris

[onawah]

It seems clear that even among reputable scientists, the whole subject of viruses --whether they exist as defined, how they function, their origins, etc. is still controversial.
For any individual, whether they are familiarized with the science or not, as Mike stated in a recent post (see that following), what you think about it often will just boil down to who you TRUST.
Bill, you obviously trust Dr. Martenson while I and others here on Avalon trust other reputable sources who don't always agree with his analyses.
I don't think that's necessarily because we are too simple minded or unfocused to understand what's going on, or because our priorities aren't in the right order, or we are too lazy to apply ourselves sufficiently to the task.

It's all definitely very confusing, made all the more so by the fact that often the most profound testimonies come from experts like Dr. Andrew Wakefield, Dr, Andrew Kaufman, Dr. Judy Mikovits, whose credentials and reputations were generally held to be in high standing up until the time that they took the incredible risk of blowing the whistle, and then their reputations were smeared, their careers were ruined, their very lives were threatened.
(Although in the long run, it has made their word all the more worthy of trust, imho, much more so than those sources who still are supported and paid and basically controlled by TPTB. )
And all the more reason why the onus of so much confusion should not fall on the shoulders of questioners and dissenters, as confusion and obfuscation is obviously one of the goals of TPTB.
Because the more distracted we are, the easier it is for them to continue with their NWO agenda, step by step, and masking and testing (no matter how ineffective or inaccurate) are obviously important steps in that agenda.

I'm sure that's obvious to you as well, Bill, so I don't understand why those two aspects of the plandemic have become such a bone of contention here on Avalon.
In the matter of masking, I personally trust the judgement and ethics of RF Kennedy Jr.;though he is not a scientist, he knows and works with many scientists personally and he and his team are devoted researchers.
See:

RFKennedy Jr. in "Vaccines Revealed" brand new 2 part interview, Part 1 showing free online now
I watched it and here are some of my notes:
ON MASKS: Children's Health Defense (RFKJr's team) did a research project and they found that of the 80 studies on Pub Med, almost all said masks don't work. They work for bacterial infections, but viruses are too small and they pass right through masks.
They are unhealthy because bacteria grows on them and they prevent the flow of oxygen.

(The controversy around the efficacy/accuracy of the Covid testing rages on, but I won't go into that here; I think Greybeard has covered that very well elsewhere on this thread and elsewhere.)

Bill, even though I don't always agree with your opinions, I don't think that you are "some kind of orthodox-science, limited-intellect, closed-minded authority figure" or I never would have remained here so long or also put in all the "great care and accumulated hours and hours" that I have.
(I speak for others as well, I'm sure, but speaking just for me, it's to the point now where now my eyesight is suffering and I am developing symptoms of carpel tunnel syndrome and frozen shoulder in my right arm because of so much time spent on my computer.)
But that shouldn't mean that we always have to align with your opinions or your idea about what Avalon is, Bill ( or anyone's on the staff), or otherwise be subjected to lecturing, ridicule, belittlement condescension, banning, etc.
That's certainly much less the case here than on other forums, and I understand that, but it still happens here.
Bill:
If that's what you think I am, after all this time, then please leave now. I mean it. Get the hell outta here. You've not learned a thing about myself or Avalon.

If I'm wrong, then please feel free to unsubscribe me. :sad: You might actually be doing me a favor...! :nod:
But I don't think there is any way that you can reasonably expect to dictate what someone else's idea of Avalon should be.
And speaking for myself, no offense intended, but I didn't come to Avalon to learn about you or anyone else here (though that has certainly been part of the process) but to learn about what is going on in the world that isn't being covered by the mainstream media, and to compare notes and share information that helps in that process.

Bill:
:focus: (whatever that is!)

As to any questions regarding the intended topic of this thread, I was hoping the subtitle, which is "Follow the Science...or Follow the Money?" would make that more clear.
Apologies if I failed in that.
(We all bring our failings as well as our strengths to the forum--the lesson perhaps is in developing tolerance...)
I did not fully understand initially that the term "scientific materialism" applied so much to theories in physics and that has probably caused some confusion.
The way in which I have been hearing that term applied lately (and the way in which I intended it to be applied here) has had to do with the unprincipled manner in which science has been hijacked by those in the corporatocracy with the means to do so, in order to serve materialistic goals (and genocidal NWO goals) and firstly and primarily -- to earn profits in furtherance of those goals.
Rather than in service to Life, and working in harmony with Nature.
Instead, continually and arrogantly trying to improve on Nature or simply to corrupt it.
And in so doing, to further corrupt and obfuscate the truth by censoring those who dissent and point out the fallacy in those misguided goals.
So my goal is to gain more clarity as to which sources of information are which, and, inasmuch as there is confusion and division here on Avalon as to which is which, to help resolve that schism, and to identify where we may have been misled and misled to censor others who are attempting to lay bare the lies.
I hope any confusion as to the intent and purpose of this thread has been cleared up now. :flower:


I was just telling a close friend that I've always felt very strongly about the dangers of 5G and vaccines, but if I was challenged on my beliefs I wouldn't be able to coherently explain them. Not too well anyway. Because my actual knowledge is quite limited.

I think there's quite a few of us like that in the alt. community. In general we know a little about a lot; our intellectual ocean is wide but not terribly deep. We listen/watch plenty of videos - and videos are great! - but we're at work or puttering around the house and maybe not totally engaged. And in general we're not fact checking every last detail being uttered by the interviewee. Who has the time anyway? I'm describing myself here, and assuming - rightly or wrongly - that many of you guys are like me.

So, in other words, I have strong feelings and intuitions based on the little I do know about certain things, but I wouldn't last 5 seconds in an intellectual debate on some of it. I even have direct experience of the weakening effects of WIFI - it's plagued me for years! - but I couldn't argue my points scientifically, or even begin to change the mind of someone who has combed the literature and found nothing to suggest any harmful effects.

So I pick and choose my battles. Or I don't battle at all. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. But if the goal is to convince others, I know I have to do better than tell my personal story or quote videos; I need facts, science, citations, studies, so forth. And fair enough.

But that's not always as straightforward as it sounds; I'll concede that. It costs an enormous amount of money to do scientific studies - at least ones that will be universally recognized anyway - and the drug companies aren't exactly lining up to do expensive, potentially damaging studies to their brand. And even if they do, how can they be trusted? They can't be, and neither can the FDA, who are clearly and demonstrably in bed with them. So who can we trust? These days, information is so corrupted that it's difficult if not impossible to tell in some instances.

The problem is, we simply don't know enough. And we don't all have the time to research it all. It doesn't mean we throw our hands up in the air and declare it all hopeless. We do the best we possibly can with the information we have. And that information, for the most part, should be scientifically based. But, due to the corruption of information, due to conflicts of interests, due to moral and ethical and financial corruption etc etc, we know that even that information will never be completely accurate...

...And that's where the intuition comes in. In this life, you have to just trust people sometimes. You can't go to medical school maybe, you can't do these studies on your own, you don't have access to a lab...so you have to trust the people that do. This isn't blind faith. I'm simply saying that after collecting as much info as time and energy allows on something, there will still be some blank spaces. And intuition usually fills that void. It tells you what info to seek out and who to listen to, among other things. And for each person it may be different, because we all have different challenges that may require different solutions.

So science and intuition aren't necessarily at cross purposes. Science and so called "conspiracy" aren't always at cross purposes either. The mainstream media and the alt media aren't always at cross purposes. They can often work together, alchemically, to provide us with something resembling truth. I say "resembling" truth, because we may not always know for sure when it comes to things like 5g and vaccines, but we can get pretty close to sure maybe, if we're diligent and reasonable; and I say "resembling truth" because in some instances my truth might be your conspiracy, and vice versa. I gave the example earlier of how I'm weakened by WIFI; well some people just refuse to believe that. And that's ok, because this is largely an individual journey, and we all discover things in our own time and in our own ways. And we tend to discover the specific things we need to discover for our own personal journeys; that's how the universe seems to operate, from my perspective anyway.



According to this article, scientists have analyzed 2,492 genome sequences of SARS-CoV-2 strains up to 30 March 2020.Update: the number of sequences done (https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sars-cov-2/) is now 51,998. (Probably >52,000 by the time you've finished reading this post!)

The lab techniques to isolate the virus for gene sequencing are different from fast-track, thousands-in-a day, drive-thru clinical testing. (And yes, that testing is (a) misused, (b) misreported, and (c) a very blunt instrument.)

My advice to [some] members reading this:

Focus on government and international agendas. Not the science of what the virus is — because many posting, despite their good intentions, still don't understand this all very well.

Those well-meaning folks are often just mixing everything up into a giant stirred-up stew that's


frequently inaccurate or not fully accurate (and sometimes just plain wrong)
confusing to many reading this stuff. (I've been told this by visitors.)

And making one-sentence statements that "it's just like the flu" helps no-one. (Certainly not those who have the thing.) People were saying this in January!

If people reading this don't fully understand what the heck a virus is after 8 months of discussion and an enormous amount of simplified, well-illustrated, publicly available information, the odds may be against suddenly having an 'Aha' moment and understanding it all now.

My own frustration is that I've done my very best to explain things, taking great care with my posts for accumulated hours and hours and hours, and the reaction is [sometimes] that I'm just some kind of orthodox-science, limited-intellect, closed-minded authority figure.

If that's what you think I am, after all this time, then please leave now. I mean it. Get the hell outta here. You've not learned a thing about myself or Avalon.

Whether you think the virus is real or not, it's how the authorities are handling it all that matters. Nothing else.

Get real, get focused, and get your priorities right.

:focus: (whatever that is!)

[Bill Ryan]

It seems clear that even among reputable scientists, the whole subject of viruses --whether they exist as defined, how they function, their origins, etc. is still controversial.
For any individual, whether they are familiarized with the science or not, as Mike stated in a recent post (see that following), what you think about it often will just boil down to who you TRUST.
Bill, you obviously trust Dr. Martenson while I and others here on Avalon trust other reputable sources who don't always agree with his analyses.
I don't think that's necessarily because we are too simple minded or unfocused to understand what's going on, or because our priorities aren't in the right order, or we are too lazy to apply ourselves sufficiently to the task.

It's all definitely very confusing, made all the more so by the fact that often the most profound testimonies come from experts like Dr. Andrew Wakefield, Dr, Andrew Kaufman, Dr. Judy Mikovits, whose credentials and reputations were generally held to be in high standing up until the time that they took the incredible risk of blowing the whistle, and then their reputations were smeared, their careers were ruined, their very lives were threatened.
(Although in the long run, it has made their word all the more worthy of trust, imho, much more so than those sources who still are supported and paid and basically controlled by TPTB. )
And all the more reason why the onus of so much confusion should not fall on the shoulders of questioners and dissenters, as confusion and obfuscation is obviously one of the goals of TPTB.
Because the more distracted we are, the easier it is for them to continue with their NWO agenda, step by step, and masking and testing (no matter how ineffective or inaccurate) are obviously important steps in that agenda.

I'm sure that's obvious to you as well, Bill, so I don't understand why those two aspects of the plandemic have become such a bone of contention here on Avalon.
In the matter of masking, I personally trust the judgement and ethics of RF Kennedy Jr.;though he is not a scientist, he knows and works with many scientists personally and he and his team are devoted researchers.
See:

RFKennedy Jr. in "Vaccines Revealed" brand new 2 part interview, Part 1 showing free online now
I watched it and here are some of my notes:
ON MASKS: Children's Health Defense (RFKJr's team) did a research project and they found that of the 80 studies on Pub Med, almost all said masks don't work. They work for bacterial infections, but viruses are too small and they pass right through masks.
They are unhealthy because bacteria grows on them and they prevent the flow of oxygen.

(The controversy around the efficacy/accuracy of the Covid testing rages on, but I won't go into that here; I think Greybeard has covered that very well elsewhere on this thread and elsewhere.)

Bill, even though I don't always agree with your opinions, I don't think that you are "some kind of orthodox-science, limited-intellect, closed-minded authority figure" or I never would have remained here so long or also put in all the "great care and accumulated hours and hours" that I have.
(I speak for others as well, I'm sure, but speaking just for me, it's to the point now where now my eyesight is suffering and I am developing symptoms of carpel tunnel syndrome and frozen shoulder in my right arm because of so much time spent on my computer.)
But that shouldn't mean that we always have to align with your opinions or your idea about what Avalon is, Bill ( or anyone's on the staff), or otherwise be subjected to lecturing, ridicule, belittlement condescension, banning, etc.
That's certainly much less the case here than on other forums, and I understand that, but it still happens here.
Bill:
If that's what you think I am, after all this time, then please leave now. I mean it. Get the hell outta here. You've not learned a thing about myself or Avalon.

If I'm wrong, then please feel free to unsubscribe me. :sad: You might actually be doing me a favor...! :nod:
But I don't think there is any way that you can reasonably expect to dictate what someone else's idea of Avalon should be.
And speaking for myself, no offense intended, but I didn't come to Avalon to learn about you or anyone else here (though that has certainly been part of the process) but to learn about what is going on in the world that isn't being covered by the mainstream media, and to compare notes and share information that helps in that process.

Bill:
:focus: (whatever that is!)

As to any questions regarding the intended topic of this thread, I was hoping the subtitle, which is "Follow the Science...or Follow the Money?" would make that more clear.
Apologies if I failed in that.
(We all bring our failings as well as our strengths to the forum--the lesson perhaps is in developing tolerance...)
I did not fully understand initially that the term "scientific materialism" applied so much to theories in physics and that has probably caused some confusion.
The way in which I have been hearing that term applied lately (and the way in which I intended it to be applied here) has had to do with the unprincipled manner in which science has been hijacked by those in the corporatocracy with the means to do so, in order to serve materialistic goals (and genocidal NWO goals) and firstly and primarily -- to earn profits in furtherance of those goals.
Rather than in service to Life, and working in harmony with Nature.
Instead, continually and arrogantly trying to improve on Nature or simply to corrupt it.
And in so doing, to further corrupt and obfuscate the truth by censoring those who dissent and point out the fallacy in those misguided goals.
So my goal is to gain more clarity as to which sources of information are which, and, inasmuch as there is confusion and division here on Avalon as to which is which, to help resolve that schism, and to identify where we may have been misled and misled to censor others who are attempting to lay bare the lies.
I hope any confusion as to the intent and purpose of this thread has been cleared up now. :flower:


I was just telling a close friend that I've always felt very strongly about the dangers of 5G and vaccines, but if I was challenged on my beliefs I wouldn't be able to coherently explain them. Not too well anyway. Because my actual knowledge is quite limited.

I think there's quite a few of us like that in the alt. community. In general we know a little about a lot; our intellectual ocean is wide but not terribly deep. We listen/watch plenty of videos - and videos are great! - but we're at work or puttering around the house and maybe not totally engaged. And in general we're not fact checking every last detail being uttered by the interviewee. Who has the time anyway? I'm describing myself here, and assuming - rightly or wrongly - that many of you guys are like me.

So, in other words, I have strong feelings and intuitions based on the little I do know about certain things, but I wouldn't last 5 seconds in an intellectual debate on some of it. I even have direct experience of the weakening effects of WIFI - it's plagued me for years! - but I couldn't argue my points scientifically, or even begin to change the mind of someone who has combed the literature and found nothing to suggest any harmful effects.

So I pick and choose my battles. Or I don't battle at all. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. But if the goal is to convince others, I know I have to do better than tell my personal story or quote videos; I need facts, science, citations, studies, so forth. And fair enough.

But that's not always as straightforward as it sounds; I'll concede that. It costs an enormous amount of money to do scientific studies - at least ones that will be universally recognized anyway - and the drug companies aren't exactly lining up to do expensive, potentially damaging studies to their brand. And even if they do, how can they be trusted? They can't be, and neither can the FDA, who are clearly and demonstrably in bed with them. So who can we trust? These days, information is so corrupted that it's difficult if not impossible to tell in some instances.

The problem is, we simply don't know enough. And we don't all have the time to research it all. It doesn't mean we throw our hands up in the air and declare it all hopeless. We do the best we possibly can with the information we have. And that information, for the most part, should be scientifically based. But, due to the corruption of information, due to conflicts of interests, due to moral and ethical and financial corruption etc etc, we know that even that information will never be completely accurate...

...And that's where the intuition comes in. In this life, you have to just trust people sometimes. You can't go to medical school maybe, you can't do these studies on your own, you don't have access to a lab...so you have to trust the people that do. This isn't blind faith. I'm simply saying that after collecting as much info as time and energy allows on something, there will still be some blank spaces. And intuition usually fills that void. It tells you what info to seek out and who to listen to, among other things. And for each person it may be different, because we all have different challenges that may require different solutions.

So science and intuition aren't necessarily at cross purposes. Science and so called "conspiracy" aren't always at cross purposes either. The mainstream media and the alt media aren't always at cross purposes. They can often work together, alchemically, to provide us with something resembling truth. I say "resembling" truth, because we may not always know for sure when it comes to things like 5g and vaccines, but we can get pretty close to sure maybe, if we're diligent and reasonable; and I say "resembling truth" because in some instances my truth might be your conspiracy, and vice versa. I gave the example earlier of how I'm weakened by WIFI; well some people just refuse to believe that. And that's ok, because this is largely an individual journey, and we all discover things in our own time and in our own ways. And we tend to discover the specific things we need to discover for our own personal journeys; that's how the universe seems to operate, from my perspective anyway.



According to this article, scientists have analyzed 2,492 genome sequences of SARS-CoV-2 strains up to 30 March 2020.Update: the number of sequences done (https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sars-cov-2/) is now 51,998. (Probably >52,000 by the time you've finished reading this post!)

The lab techniques to isolate the virus for gene sequencing are different from fast-track, thousands-in-a day, drive-thru clinical testing. (And yes, that testing is (a) misused, (b) misreported, and (c) a very blunt instrument.)

My advice to [some] members reading this:

Focus on government and international agendas. Not the science of what the virus is — because many posting, despite their good intentions, still don't understand this all very well.

Those well-meaning folks are often just mixing everything up into a giant stirred-up stew that's



frequently inaccurate or not fully accurate (and sometimes just plain wrong)
confusing to many reading this stuff. (I've been told this by visitors.)


And making one-sentence statements that "it's just like the flu" helps no-one. (Certainly not those who have the thing.) People were saying this in January!

If people reading this don't fully understand what the heck a virus is after 8 months of discussion and an enormous amount of simplified, well-illustrated, publicly available information, the odds may be against suddenly having an 'Aha' moment and understanding it all now.

My own frustration is that I've done my very best to explain things, taking great care with my posts for accumulated hours and hours and hours, and the reaction is [sometimes] that I'm just some kind of orthodox-science, limited-intellect, closed-minded authority figure.

If that's what you think I am, after all this time, then please leave now. I mean it. Get the hell outta here. You've not learned a thing about myself or Avalon.

Whether you think the virus is real or not, it's how the authorities are handling it all that matters. Nothing else.

Get real, get focused, and get your priorities right.

:focus: (whatever that is!)

~~~

Natalie, I don't "trust" researchers that I read or listen to — in any subject. I do whatever work I have to to understand what they're saying, follow their logic or hypotheses, and then decide for myself whether their presentations are likely to be flawed or reliable.

I do that with virology, ufology, astrophysics, cryptozoology, and quite a few other subjects I have knowledge of and/or are fairly well qualified to take a good close look at — including whether or not a missile took out Beirut harbor on 4 August. :)

Others, through no fault of their own, aren't in a position to do that. So they rely on "trust" instead.

Anyone is entitled to do that, and humans rely on interpersonal judgment and trust a very great deal: when choosing a romantic partner, or maybe considering a job offer, the purchase of a house or used car, or even when bartering in a market.

People do that often using subtle cues, like tone of voice, facial expression, eye movement, and all aspects of presentation of just about anything at all. Even the music accompanying YouTube videos.

We have to understand that most presentations are tying to "sell" something. For instance, an idea: many videos use persuasion in all its subtle aspects, and their goal is to persuade the viewer or listener to accept their ideas or worldview. And many people "buy" (or not!), just as if they were responding to a car salesman.

But that's not science. That's something much more likely to let you down sometime unless you're VERY VERY good at it.

You mentioned Chris Martenson, and he's one of the very few who does NOT do this. He presents research papers that anyone can read. He interprets others' ideas in a very user-friendly and easily-understandable way. He's not trying to persuade you of anything. The only axe he grinds is trying to get to some useful truth.

Most others have an agenda that they're selling. Caveat emptor.

That applies in the alternative media every bit as much as it does in the mainstream.
You've said many times (and kudos for your honesty :flower: ) that you're no scientist. But that leaves you relying a great deal on trust. All I can say about that is that you gotta have that trustworthiness-evaluation skill down to a very high level to be consistently correct.And it works the other way round. Others DIStrust, for the same basic human-nature reasons — because they don't fully understand.

So trust, or distrust, is all they can fall back on. That's closer to my original point.There are many people on Avalon who are arguing points based on trust, or distrust.

But I'm actually trying to talk about truth — which was in the title of your thread.
When it comes to truth, Natalie, you're really just guessing, and hoping that you're right. (And you may be! But I'm describing the process here.) And my process is different.

I try to explain things so that people will understand, but then they don't trust me either — and we get nowhere at all. I might as well not try.Do you understand what I'm saying here? :)

[onawah]

Yes, I understand Bill, but I think that intuition and clairvoyance get very short shrift when it comes to comparisons and discussions about science.
And that is why I think science and spirituality don't always meet all that well on Avalon.
Shamans, psychics, and dare I say it, some INFJs (of which I am one) can arrive at truth without doing all that incremental work that science demands.
Developing the third eye (Intuition) allows us to see reality more directly than the third chakra (Intellect) without always knowing all the "facts", and to connect the dots by what appears to intellectuals to be taking impermissible "short cuts".
The developed crown chakra (Imagination) allows us to imagine what might be, without knowing precisely how to get there; seeing what the future might bring, and thereby that from the past which might be proven in the future to be false.
Both demand a lot of focus too, though of a very different sort, and certainly a lot of work on personal evolution.
Most people are operating from the first 3 levels, and so the higher levels are not as well understood or accepted.
Highly developed intuition and imagination are by no means the result of intellectual laziness, though they may appear to be more effortless.
In this age of materialism, people operating from the higher chakras don't get a lot of credit and often won't risk the ridicule they are subjected to if they make any claims to such abilities or share what they know to be true.
When I speak of the process of finding who to trust, it's not just guesswork or trust in chosen authorities I'm referring to, it's also the use of those higher faculties in choosing who to believe, as well as gut instinct, which is also not without value.
And I don't make any claim to having those abilities more developed than anyone else--but I will say that in many cases, there is an equal if not greater general lack of understanding about how and why there are ways of arriving at legitimate conclusions that can be just as, if not more valid than the intellectual process, which is what mainstream science is so very dependent on.
The late Dr. Christopher Hills
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hills
wrote extensively on that subject, and he was very far ahead of his time.
He described himself as operating primarily from intuition but he was obviously also very much an intellectual, so I think he must have had an ability to evaluate both realms quite accurately, judging from the prodigious amount of writing he did.

[greybeard]

I lke to cross reference hence posting experts with a whole lifetime in their field --experts who have been peer reviewed like Professor Dolores Cahill-- whose reputation has been smeared.
To many similar cases to mention here.

This post has numerous cross references
Is his research to be doubted?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111445-Jon-Rappoport-on-the-Covid-Hoax&p=1377275&viewfull=1#post1377275

COVID diagnostic test: worst test ever devised?
by Jon Rappoport
September 10, 2020
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020...-ever-devised/

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111445-Jon-Rappoport-on-the-Covid-Hoax&p=1377275&viewfull=1#post1377275

[greybeard]

Do we trust David Icke ridiculed for years but one of the best researchers there is?
Dont acquiesce, one of the best pieces of advice
Chris


https://brandnewtube.com/watch/virus-test-revelations_6ZyPiQImyIF4Pdv.html

[araucaria]

Pursuing the ideal of ‘double agents’ such as viruses and presidents, the concept may also be applied to materialism, as being both an idea and a thing. Materialism is to be found on both sides of the ideological argument, in the form of Marxism in the East, in the form of the accumulation of wealth in the American dream. World conflict is derived from the fact that, as a concept, materialism is self-contradictory in that, as a thing, it has two expressions, namely communism and capitalism. Capitalists, those notorious idealists, are inveterate materialists. And communists, those notorious materialists, are notably idealistic.
Hence, you see two forms of materialism: historical materialism (it’s the economy, stupid!), and dialectical materialism, which are both somewhat oxymoronic, as I shall explain. Scientific materialism is another oxymoron or ‘double agent’.
Since dialectical materialism asserts the power of dialectics (thesis v antithesis > synthesis), then dialectics apply to the materialism concept itself. See this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?109031-Humanity-s-Phase-Shift-Daniel-Schmachtenberger&p=1331295&viewfull=1#post1331295). The antithesis of materialism being idealism, then this means that some idealistic element is injected into the process to take it to a higher level. The same happens with historical materialism, where the idealistic element is of course money. What was originally all about things and their exchange (barter) has turned into little more than an idea (numbers on a screen), materialistic wealth being the very real things that this funny money can buy. Scientific materialism is antidialectical materialism as practised by science, and comes unstuck when it discovers experimentally that not everything is matter as we know it. In other words, dialectics also apply to such antidialectical materialism, and you end up with some form of idealistic science.

Another way of seeing this is to say that we abandon universals for the world of particulars. I know, this is to place the emphasis somewhat on the material: for an idea as to why and how this might be, see this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111554-C.S.-Lewis-The-Space-Trilogy&p=1367817&viewfull=1#post1367817), dealing with ‘scientific nihilism’. The universe is everything that is, or rather it is everything that is plus everything that is not, i.e. a synthesis of all things and all ideas, a synthesis of materialism and idealism. Such a universe by definition cannot be one of countless multiverses: it is all those multiverses taken collectively. So when scientists veer off in the opposite directions of cosmology and subparticle physics, they have totally drifted away from any kind of materialism towards pure idealism. Counter-intuitive, maybe, but see this post by Mike Gorman (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5348-Ascension-Dolores-Cannon-and-5D-Splitting-into-two-Earths&p=1373454&viewfull=1#post1373454).

The tentative working conclusion then has to be that, like the open-ended Richter scale, we are talking about an open-ended scale where universality is an abstract concept tending towards taking concrete form without ever getting there. Infinity seen as a process rather than a thing, where everything is infinitely tiny and infinitely huge at any level. On the Richter scale of destruction, somewhere around 15 (?) indicates an exploding planet. There will be values further down the line corresponding to an exploding solar system, an exploding galaxy and so on. On the other hand, this universal scale is one of exploding creation. The notion of Imagination explored by Jon Rappoport with Jack True covers the operation of endlessly creating reality, i.e. being ungrounded. For me the purpose of being ungrounded is… to be grounded in a better place for a better world. Since we are all in this together, our ambitious personal creativity will naturally be tempered by everyone else’s, leading unreasonably, perhaps, to disappointment. We should not be disappointed but keep going, because the synthesis of idealism and materialism is process, and confusion is part of the process. As many people have been discovering during lockdown, love in the abstract is all well and good, but being in the physical plane, we need the physical expressions of a kiss, a hug, a caress, a loving word. Let’s keep it simple :)

[greybeard]

My field of expertise was psychology (Hypnotherapy NLP Psychotherapy)
Hence I am well aware of agenda, motivation,conditioning -- perceived pay value.
Aware of my own too, so restrict to the best of my ability.
I see repetition, memes, subtle devaluation of posts.
Not the slightest bothered as people are entitled to express in anyway they choose.
In the media this is very evident to a retired profe ssional like me.
But not so to Joe average --they see it as truth not propaganda.

Funnily enough some of the best psychological advice is to be found in spiritual text.
"You are never angry for the reason you think you are" ACIM

It takes experience to look beyond the presenting anger and see what lies there, yet I dont make assumptions,
Its up to people to investigate what they present to the world-- very few do.
Most make the same mistakes over and over without seeing a pattern.

The third eye has to do with pattern recognition.
Intuition not to be dismissed lightly.

So I hope now the focus goes on what is happening now in the world rather than science.
Where is all this leading to, what can we do about it?
Dont acquiesce.
For UK people

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442/

Chris

[Philippe]

Repeatedly we are being presented with case stories of persons with these new symptoms that are being labelled as a novel virus covid19. It is told to be extremely contagious, for some even severe and deadly. But analyzing statistics it are rather exceptions who become that seriously ill from nothing else than the virus
Naturopaths have their holistic approach of disease : “ the terrain is everything , the microbe is nothing”.
I think that is right ( in sofar that one knows how to keep his terrain in good shape) but something important is missing : a holistic view of the population of the planet as a group.
This group is trying hard , like in the Avalon forum, to find truth and as a result a better life and future. The group is trying to move into a higher spiritual state. But what if this process has been booby-trapped ? As in mythical tales were the soul has to cross a chasm with deadly danger?
The group is like a body and some of its members are like cells who get extremely ill or even die.
It is important to realize as a group that it is in such process.
I am no New-ager and do not know if Gaia is one being, but there is the knowledge of spiritual inter-connectedness . Like the skin is one organ, but an ulcer or rash appears only in some places.

What I have been missing in the reports of Avalon members who got the covid disease is a description of their daily lifestyle over the last years or longer. This to establish how their ‘terrain” may have been weakened.
It was not revealed for Avalon’s Hervé , probably because it’s health privacy and as a security measure. But I just don’t believe that a bio-weapon virus makes it to a small remote village.
From William Sanford we got more information but it’s still not enough to find answers why he specifically got this disease out of nowhere and not his family.
The same for Frank V. We only know that he functions with full trust in computer science to analyze a virus where this science is used to keep the planet in a state of dependency and slavery.

We have not sufficiently thought how these strange symptoms of a respiratory disease may have been triggered from the distant past.
Some call this an archetypal influence. I appreciate that member Jayke makes a reference to that. It is certainly a good concept to understand what may be there. This whole covid virus story just does not make sense And that is proven by several members who resist the scientific explanations and the focus on a virus.
The story starts to make more sense if one sees the struggle of the group as a whole and by looking at the virus as a symptom of underlying spiritual entrapment and hazard.


I considered the following definitions:

Archetype in Psychoanalysis:
(in Jungian theory) a primitive mental image inherited from the earliest human ancestors, and supposed to be present in the collective unconscious.

Holistic Medicine: What It Is, Treatments, Philosophy, and More
www.webmd.com ›
Holistic medicine practitioners believe that the whole person is made up of interdependent parts and if one part is not working properly, all the other parts will be affected. In this way, if people have imbalances (physical, emotional, or spiritual) in their lives, it can negatively affect their overall health.Mar 18, 2020

Notes:
- I could not study all posts on this thread and the controversy.
- Do I have subjective reality about what I wrote. On a personal level yes, but we are still in the group process in my opinion

[greybeard]

The media highlights anything that spreads fear of the virus to the degree that people in UK are driving miles to be tested-- such is the belief in validity of the virus, hence my repetitive posts contrary to this being a valid accurate reliable test.

You will not get the media highlighting the no of suicides, nor the number of people having adverse effects to wearing masks.
My Ex a nurse of quite a few years and disgustingly healthy passed out at work through wearing a mask.
She and other nurses comparing notes -- she is not alone in this.
She not the kind of person to go on protests but the one in Edinburgh attracted her.
A bus load from Inverness went.

The media (u tube etc) does not delete posts advocating masks but deletes those of science on u tube stating, it is not healthy to wear one and the adverse effect on the Kids.
So Im inclined to believe those who have reputations trashed and U tube presentations deleted --just too many professionals going against the official narrative that the virus is the most deadly thing since -- you put a name to it.

Members are entitled to support wearing masks and that the test is ok, if that is their choice.
Im posting information for guests -- not trying to influence members.
Members are welcome to criticize my posts there in lies the value of a balanced forum
Guests can make up their own minds too.
Chris

[Gracy]

hence my repetitive posts contrary to this being a valid accurate reliable test.

My emphasis.


Members are entitled to support wearing masks and that the test is ok, if that is their choice. Im posting information for guests -- not trying to influence members.
Members are welcome to criticize my posts there in lies the value of a balanced forum
Guests can make up their own minds too.

Chris.

Stepping far enough back from this issue to see the forum as a guest may view it, there is something else you need to consider. The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the oil, often times the listener hears it to such great extent, that the sound begins to be ignored, and slowly fades on off into the backdrop of daily consciousness.

I did some quick basic math, and of the 98 posts thus far in this thread, 27 are yours. Someone scrolling through this thread will see that smiling face of yours 28% of the time. You're even light years ahead of two others adament in these issues, with onowah's current post count here at 15 (15%), and delight at 9 (9%).

Adding together the drumbeat of all three equals a whopping 52% of all posts on this thread, with you leading the charge!

Chris (and others), often times less is more. Don't think for one second that everyone in the general vicinity, from passing guest to members posting daily, don't know precisely how you feel about certain matters, and why.

They've got it.

Essentially what you're doing at this point by pounding that drum even more incessantly, is the exact opposite of what you're hoping for. Any more, rather than people curious to see your next opinion, they're just thinking to themselves "oh there he is again", and moving on to something else.

You have a background in psychology? This is Psychology 101.

[greybeard]

Perhaps a look at the number of posts advocating the use of masks and saying the tests are valid might give balance.
Most times my posts are in response to these, they are not in isolation.
Also look at the number of times per day the Government Memes come upon TV Papers Radio.

Funnily enough Eckhart Tolle and other spiritual teachers have been saying identical things for many years.
Thousands a week visit this thread to hear the same old.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-and-related-matters.&p=1377288&viewfull=1#post1377288

Of course you are correct in what you say Gracy May
People can check my posts or not as the case might be -- freedom of choice.
They do evolve with latest info on the subject from reputable sources.
Its not just repeat of my opinion, which as said may be flawed.
People have come to believe the propaganda of the official narrative, through being exposed to repetition
Chris

Ps We are at war --its not about proving anything --its about winning this battle against evil. Thats what beating a drum is about.

[greybeard]

Is COVID-19 virus an Exosome? Ken Witwer+Jan Lötvall - the extracellular vesicle angle


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY4pJaGJgkA

For this video Jan Lötvall has invited Ken Witwer to discuss the overlap between extracellular vesicles (EV) and virus. Specifically we discuss the way by which enveloped viruses use the host membranes to produce virions (the virus particle).
DISCLAIMER: Nothing said in this vlog-podcast should be considered to be final scientific facts, as we primarily introduce hypotheses and thoughts about the topic, even though these are educated. We also have a discussion how EVs could be involved in the disease, and how EVs from different sources could be utilized as therapeutics. Importantly, all of these comments are speculations, and do not convey any recommendation. All therapies to be tested in COVID-19 should undergo proper processes and approvals before being tested in patients.


I must say I find this interesting --Im learning -- I have no opinion
Chris

[onawah]

If I may just step in here briefly to add my 2 cents, I think you both have a point.
IMHO, Gracy, Greybeard's posts generally don't lack in quality in the sources of information he sites, which I appreciate a lot because they are usually very credible and often ones that I've missed.
But I can appreciate how the number of posts the Mods have to monitor just adds to the work load. for which you are not compensated!

The quantity of your posts, Chris, can be overwhelming, not just to the Mods, but to members and guests as well, I think, particularly when they just consist of a few comments, followed soon after by another one with just a few comments, and so on.
It's like you are using Avalon to record your stream of consciousness, which isn't really what it's intended for, unless you have a thread of your own intended specifically for that purpose, such as Wind and Wade Frazier have done.
It does get a bit much as well, when you repeat the same remarks over and over again, such as "just my opinion, which may be flawed" etc..
It gets to be kind of like overhearing someone talking to themselves or arguing with someone who's not even really there.
May I make a suggestion?
That you hold off for awhile before commenting on any particular thread/subject until you have gathered a number of thoughts, articles or videos to share, etc., and then make a compilation, where possible, so that your posts are longer and denser, with relevant info, but not so frequent, repetitive, and sort of rambling in the thinking-out-load mode?
I think that would save the Mods a lot of trouble, and would make your posts more attractive to the average reader, whether member or guest.
Offered in the spirit of constructive criticism, and appreciation for the efforts of both!
Thanks!


hence my repetitive posts contrary to this being a valid accurate reliable test.

My emphasis.


Members are entitled to support wearing masks and that the test is ok, if that is their choice. Im posting information for guests -- not trying to influence members.
Members are welcome to criticize my posts there in lies the value of a balanced forum
Guests can make up their own minds too.

Chris.

Stepping far enough back from this issue to see the forum as a guest may view it, there is something else you need to consider. The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the oil, often times the listener hears it to such great extent, that the sound begins to be ignored, and slowly fades on off into the backdrop of daily consciousness.

I did some quick basic math, and of the 98 posts thus far in this thread, 27 are yours. Someone scrolling through this thread will see that smiling face of yours 28% of the time. You're even light years ahead of two others adament in these issues, with onowah's current post count here at 15 (15%), and delight at 9 (9%).

Adding together the drumbeat of all three equals a whopping 52% of all posts on this thread, with you leading the charge!

Chris (and others), often times less is more. Don't think for one second that everyone in the general vicinity, from passing guest to members posting daily, don't know precisely how you feel about certain matters, and why.

They've got it.

Essentially what you're doing at this point by pounding that drum even more incessantly, is the exact opposite of what you're hoping for. Any more, rather than people curious to see your next opinion, they're just thinking to themselves "oh there he is again", and moving on to something else.

You have a background in psychology? This is Psychology 101.


Perhaps a look at the number of posts advocating the use of masks and saying the tests are valid might give balance.
Most times my posts are in response to these, they are not in isolation.
Also look at the number of times per day the Government Memes come upon TV Papers Radio.

Funnily enough Eckhart Tolle and other spiritual teachers have been saying identical things for many years.
Thousands a week visit this thread to hear the same old.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-and-related-matters.&p=1377288&viewfull=1#post1377288

Of course you are correct in what you say Gracy May
People can check my posts or not as the case might be -- freedom of choice.
They do evolve with latest info on the subject from reputable sources.
Its not just repeat of my opinion, which as said may be flawed.
People have come to believe the propaganda of the official narrative, through being exposed to repetition
Chris

Ps We are at war --its not about proving anything --its about winning this battle against evil. Thats what beating a drum is about.

[greybeard]

Accepted what you say onawah I get carried away -- a bit over enthusiastic perhaps.
I mean well -- smiling.
Chris





Mod note from Bill:

Chris, I've put you On Sabbatical for 3 days (72 hours). That's not a punishment, or else it'd be termed a "temporary suspension". It's a tough-love support for you to get focused on what's really important, how and why you contribute to a discussion, and what you do and don't contribute to Avalon's quality.

onawah's post to you was better stated than the mods have so far been able to, and was 100% spot on. We appreciate that. Something has to change here. More is not necessarily better.

And thinking aloud all the time, saying that you don't really know stuff, doesn't help a soul — except that maybe you feel a little better after expressing yourself.

This is not your personal blog or journal: it's a communal round-table discussion which in some areas has become way out of healthy, valuable balance. If you can't moderate yourself wisely and sensitively, the mods will do this for you.

:focus:

[Bluegreen]

There is a contingent of posters who see this site as their own "personal blog" between themselves and Bill, which is fine

To be fair, I see this site as every member's "personal blog"

:)

[Delight]

The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the oil, often times the listener hears it to such great extent, that the sound begins to be ignored, and slowly fades on off into the backdrop of daily consciousness....delight at 9 (9%)

I am taking a sabbatical too, not officially leaving but will not add to the quantities of info. Keeping the forum streamlined is bound to benefit for brevity. Mods are not paid. I have always thought that the mod room was probably a club. Just to be clear, I don't understand the need to impose this kind of move (on Greybeard or anyone) but I did learn from Dan Andrews that 8-5 curfews make it easier for the police.

True, I feel a bit snarky as the world outside and that includes this court yard is looking a little unfriendly.

It is true that at this point, information may be too little too late?

[Bill Ryan]

There is a contingent of posters who see this site as their own "personal blog" between themselves and Bill, which is fine

To be fair, I see this site as every member's "personal blog"

:)There are blogs and blogs!

Yours discusses politics, Hollywood, sports, music, St Thomas, the military, ETs, Illuminati programming — and quite a lot else, including all aspects of human nature.

That's admirably eclectic! And everything you post you give a great deal of thought to before you do (it's almost always interesting), and you also always give a great deal of room to everyone else.

If you were sitting round a large table, or in a discussion group like the Laughlin meetup last year, you'd do a lot of listening and then when you said something, everyone would stop, interested in what you had to offer. You'd not be dominating any of the conversation, because you never do that either in the real world or in the virtual one.

[Tintin]

The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the oil, often times the listener hears it to such great extent, that the sound begins to be ignored, and slowly fades on off into the backdrop of daily consciousness....delight at 9 (9%)

I am taking a sabbatical too, not officially leaving but will not add to the quantities of info. Keeping the forum streamlined is bound to benefit for brevity. Mods are not paid. I have always thought that the mod room was probably a club. Just to be clear, I don't understand the need to impose this kind of move (on Greybeard or anyone) but I did learn from Dan Andrews that 8-5 curfews make it easier for the police.

True, I feel a bit snarky as the world outside and that includes this court yard is looking a little unfriendly.

It is true that at this point, information may be too little too late?

Hey :flower: Your contributions here are hugely valued, always. You need to know this.

We'll always respect anyone who feels they need to take a breather. Boy, these are very challenging times and quite draining, for all, including moderators, who are also human :)
Please don't go anywhere away from us too soon. If you do, and we'll respect that, do it only for your own self. That you've identified for yourself that you need to do that for your you.

You have our love, always :flower:

[norman]

A changed subject so my post is redundant. Please delete this post.

[araucaria]

Thank you norman. As someone who laid a few Norman bricks the other day, let me add a few thoughts of a bricklayer :)

I am neither a scientist nor the opposite of a scientist. I have a grounding in a rigorous approach to ‘arts’ subjects of which the foundation is language. In other words, I do not seek resonance with this or that video (I don’t watch too many of those). I seek resonance/consistency with myself, what I write, which is why many of my links are to my own material. This is not so much a scientific as an encyclopaedic approach, and yet it all comes back to this one individual. On the other hand, if instead of trying to publish a book or post a personal blog I persist as an anonymous poster on a largish forum over which I have no influence, this suggests that I have nothing to buy and, more importantly, nothing to sell – beyond the content of my posts. Each of them costs some considerable effort, since when I begin writing I have no idea what I am going to say: the effort and the process actually produce the end result. To that extent, what I do matches my perception of how the universe works; which is not to say that whatever I write is in any way ‘valid’ beyond my personal perception. But it does relativize the importance both of greybeard’s ‘drum beat’ posts and Bill Ryan's multiple Chris Martenson posts. If my work agrees or disagrees with theirs, that is corroboration, not collaboration – always supposing the distinction still has any value.

You see, looming large in my personal perception are my nearest and dearest, who are as wary of conspiracy theory as the rest of the population; they are my grounding. The latest suggestion that I relocate I reject for the same reason as last time, even though Baron C0rv0’s prediction of a big splash in the Atlantic would again cook my goose:

But take Wnlight’s predictions last year. They even claimed to a degree of objectivity, through dowsing. I live in a place where people should have been panicking, not to say drowning, but I naturally chose to ignore those dire predictions. If I had told my family we needed to move south immediately, they would [have] taken me to have my head examined, and rightly so as it turned out. The dowsing was capturing something, but only a potential thing, maybe some collective fear. An effective forum should not be relaying and amplifying this kind of negative non-information. This sort of thing has been going on for years and it only aggravates the main problem facing humanity, namely the growing nihilism in some quarters due to fear caused by eons of catastrophic trauma plus the steady drip of everyday trauma. In a sense, the fewer people know about some things the better, and if you are aware, better keep it to yourself. Secrecy is not always criminal. Generally speaking (but not always), fear is talkative: it is the opposite to, say, “Just do it”.http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1348239&viewfull=1#post1348239



But we DO have a precedent for cataclysm. It's happened before.
[…]
We're all good people here.

:flower:
This last statement is not entirely correct, or at least has not always been so. It would have to include (just one example) Corey Goode, who has an ongoing thread here explaining in excruciating detail how he is a Good person in name only. Or it would have to include (just another example) a certain moderator ignominiously banned not very long ago. In fact, it may be that the perception ‘We're all good people here’ is the illusion that is the ‘precedent for cataclysm’. The idea that ‘It's happened before’ almost contains the idea that ‘It will happen again’. That is one thing that I WILL combat, and I am not talking about the microcosm of a forum.

With all due respect, there is indeed a strange parallel between the relocation agenda and the forum owner’s ‘piss off’ message to long-established members. On both counts, I will not budge, and if this turns out to be my last post, so be it.

[onawah]

Greybeard and I are continuing to have some interesting email conversations while he is on involuntary sabbatical.
He just emailed this to me from David Icke:
"Its Coming! Are You Prepared For This?" David Icke
8,000 views•Premiered 3 hours ago

L_SFlujTLqY

Which was very good timing because I have been meditating a bit lately on the human levels of consciousness, the chakras and the corresponding colors, as they were taught to me by a couple of different teachers, the first and foremost being the late Dr. Christopher Hills, who wrote a lot of books all about that sort of thing, one entitled "Nuclear Evolution". See: https://www.amazon.com/Nuclear-Evolution-Discovery-Rainbow-Body/dp/0916438090

In the video, David Icke speaks of the level of consciousness of the heart (the 4th chakra, for which the color is green).
Green connects us with Nature, and David makes the association of acting in accordance with what is NATURAL , as acting from CONSCIENCE, without fear.
When we act from that level we are acting instinctively from what our connection with Nature tells us is true and right and natural.
(I think people often refer to that as "gut instinct" though of course, the gut is closer to the third chakra, which is about intellect. Perhaps we need to coin a new term like "heart instinct").

The first time I was required to put on a mask so that I could go into a store to buy groceries, my heart was speaking for my whole organism, and was screaming "This is NOT RIGHT"!
Not just morally wrong, but wrong because it was unnatural, because it wasn't good for me, not just for my physical being, not for my entire being.
OF course, I had already formed an opinion about it before that, but that was coming in part from my intellect. This other response to masking was much more than that.

The next chakra up is the throat (the color blue), and that is the level of devotion.
Devotion gives us more of the energetic wherewithal to speak out for and to adhere to what we feel to be right.

(Herd instinct, which is the second chakra (the color orange) keeps people doing what they are told, taking what they think is the safe path.
The level of sensation, the root chakra, (the color red) prompts us to do what feels good sensually.

According to Dr. Hills, most of the people of Earth are acting primarily from those two centers.)

But I imagine that most of these people were not prompted by herd instinct or because it felt good sensually to come together (not to mention convenient!) to peacefully protest the lockdown, the masking, the testing, the whole plandemic...but were being prompted by their conscience and their devotion to the truth:

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119203840_10158914072536096_2450390461995627507_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=gAR8b9NAvNkAX-Eccan&_nc_oc=AQmXj_BzY0C-X29XLBYSujIZgfw1NgYtK-mAjDpvuQJMLBnuvCoG4D7H6oTcF8b3Njbl4wKJ4_85ieP7Dx9lHpBi&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=0df9b40740e18af575fe51cd62d27e7b&oe=5F81E8B5

I pray to God and Goddess that more will take heart from that example, and find the courage to speak out against what they know to be unnatural and wrong.
We may yet be fewer in number, but not lesser in power or worthiness to be heard.
Then we may see a real turning point in this massive herding toward annihilation that the elite would have us succumb to with their genocidal plans.

[onawah]

Great data compilation on Covid here:
Stanford University Nobel Prize Winner Biophysicist Michael Levitt says the pandemic is over, though according to the mainstream media, the "casedemic" continues. As much data from him and many other experts as anyone could wish in this video.I give the first part of this video an A+, despite all the religious beliefs shared at the end, but easy to skip through.
https://www.facebook.com/veritasmedi...4536836892730/

Also posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110507-Covid19-Don-t-trust-the-statistics--or-the-science-re-the-tests-the-cause-of-the-sickness-&p=1377844&viewfull=1#post1377844

[Chester]

If people are interested in extremely in depth, sound analysis of the full impact and full reality of the COVID-19 saga, look no further than...

The Ethical Skeptic -

https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic

His website -

https://theethicalskeptic.com/

and spend the 30 minutes listening to a recent interview -

https://omny.fm/shows/the-todd-herman-show/independent-data-analyst-ethical-skeptic-joins-the

Then come back and try and make the argument that the deaths of despair have been justified.

Note: The credentials of The Ethical Skeptic are impeccable both with regards to knowing what he is talking about but with regards to something very hard to find these days - actual ethics.

[onawah]

HOMELAND SECURITY TO BIOSECURITY-Corbett Report
9/13/20
https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/covid-911-from-homeland-security-to-biosecurity/
Reviewed by Alexandra Bruce:

"About a month ago, YouTube stopped notifying me of when my subscriptions post new videos, so I’m kind of flying blind. I would have posted James Corbett’s latest tour-de-force sooner, had I been notified.

Here are some highlights from the transcript, which can be read in full here:https://www.corbettreport.com/covid911/

…

Those paying attention will have already noted the parallels between the “War on Terror” declared after 9/11 and the “War on the Invisible Enemy” that has been declared on COVID-19…

That so many of the people who were there at the birth of the war on terror are currently acting as midwives to the biosecurity state should come as no surprise. After all, the biosecurity paradigm is not a replacement for the terror paradigm; it is its fulfillment…

…we find insight on this turn of events from [Italian philosopher] Giorgio Agamben, who has noted that viral epidemics are

“above all a political concept, which is preparing to become the new terrain of world politics—or non-politics. It is possible, however, that the epidemic that we are living through will be the actualization of the global civil war that, according to the most attentive political theorists, has taken the place of traditional world wars. All nations and all peoples are now in an enduring war with themselves, because the invisible and elusive enemy with which they are struggling is within us.”

Governments are banning gatherings and events. Instituting new screening procedures. Quarantining healthy, functioning people against their will. Tracking and surveilling every individual. Controlling their movements. Monitoring their transactions. Make no mistake: the “War on Terror” is not over. It has just greatly expanded.

The proponents of 9/11 truth have warned for 19 years that the “War on Terror” was always a war on the public. Long pushed to the margins of the political debate, that viewpoint has been vindicated as the “terrorist” label is replaced by the “asymptomatic carrier” label and all the machinery of the police state is wielded against everyone who opposes the biosecurity takeover.

Given that those once derided as “conspiracy theorists” have turned out to be the most prescient political observers of all, perhaps it is time to learn the real lessons from 9/11 that mainstream discourse has always excluded:

That 9/11 and the “War on Terror” was not a war at all, but a power grab;
That the “temporary” measures brought in to deal with an alleged “emergency” will never be relinquished;
And, most importantly, that unless everyone who cares about this—the most blatant power grab in history—rises up, refuses to cower in fear of the invisible enemy, and reclaims their inalienable rights to freedom of movement, freedom of association and freedom of assembly, then those freedoms will be gone for good.
This is the message of 9/11 truth: that the world was tricked into giving up their rights in the name of an endless parade of bogeymen. In reality, it was the very politicians and officials claiming to protect us from these bogeymen—the ones donning the mantle of “homeland security”—who were the greatest threat to the public. And now they are claiming we are the bogeymen, “asymptomatic carriers” of an invisible enemy,” walking and talking weapons of mass destruction who must be caged in fear forever lest the virus kills us all.

This is a lie, and it exposes what the fearmongers are themselves afraid of: free humanity. Gathering. Talking. Working. Playing. Living.

It is no small irony that this year’s 9/11 memorials have been disrupted by the COVID scare. The torch has well and truly passed, and the annual injunctions to “Never Forget” have been replaced by a litany of “Always Remembers.” Remember to wear your mask. Remember to stay 6 feet apart. Remember to avoid large groups. Remember to stay home.

After 19 years, perhaps it is time to admit that 9/11 truth failed to expose the “War on Terror” lie in time to derail the homeland security agenda. But we are entering a new era, and we have a new chance to wake from this nightmare.

Knowing this, the only question is: Will we reject the “War on the Invisible Enemy” before it’s too late?

Whatever our choice, we better make it quickly. A Great Reset is coming."

opAyJt94Kmo
Or if youtube censors it, try Bitchute at: https://www.bitchute.com/video/opAyJt94Kmo/

[Ernie Nemeth]

While materialists look to label and define the culprit, thereby making it real, the truthers want to expose the root of the entire agenda, thereby making the virus inconsequential.

Because this epidemic is quite selective in who gets infected, the bulk of humanity has had no experience with the illness itself and have only experienced the repercussions of the drastic response. Because they are labelled 'carriers' and a risk to those around them they become the victims of an invisible enemy that will never affect them directly. And since we are talking about at least 85% of the world's population, we are talking about a vast majority of experiences.

Then we have those who, because they themselves are compromised or by the luck of the draw this virus has affected someone they know, the experience is direct and the threat very real.

So the health authorities begin the massive cost of labeling, defining, curtailing, controlling, and compiling a new viral agent and its particulars. But we are not allowed to have a life again until a vaccine. And this was how it was presented from the beginning, that the new normal would have to include an interim period where we all wait for a vaccine. How was that arrived at before the true extent of its virulence had yet been determined?

So there is the mass of humanity indirectly affected by this pathogen, and a minority with some or another direct experience. And we have a policy that came out of an international body fully formed before the epidemic even hit.

As the true numbers come out we are getting quite a different picture of the dangers posed by this virus but the scare-mongering tactics that began early on has remained the official narrative. Because of it, as Corbett reports, we have the continuation of the security state but now on steroids.

While the battle against the truth continues, materially we are supposedly all a little bit safer and definitely a little less free. And our repertoire of labels has grown by one...making us feel like we have mastered this scourge.

Scientific materialism is a story. It can be true or it can be false. But scientific materialism is not against the truth, it merely makes a very early assumption that it has remained loyal to since the inception of science, which states:
The universe is grainy. Or the more secular: All things real must be material. And secretly: There is no need for a god.

That's it. If that is not true then scientific materialism is not truth.

[Delight]

Scientific materialism is a story. It can be true or it can be false. But scientific materialism is not against the truth, it merely makes a very early assumption that it has remained loyal to since the inception of science, which states:
The universe is grainy. Or the more secular: All things real must be material. And secretly: There is no need for a god.

That's it. If that is not true then scientific materialism is not truth.

One of the first uses of the mind is to ask "WHY?" I was talking to a friend last night who lost a loved one last week to possible medical malpractice. Certainly there were errors all along the path leading to a death at 44. She is wondering WHY did this death happen?

She is also trying to find some solace that life is not over for her friend which leads her to call on her taught conception of GOD from her religious upbringing. This religion taught that we are not to question GOD. This POV holds that we are not able to understand and have to accept "God's Will".

I recall from history that once the "Church" held everyone in a strangle hold and the pendulum swung to "Science" as a way to seek truth over religious fundamentalism.

Lately science is also showing the same front of Authoritarian management. Think of how many scientists with great credentials are being maligned by other scientists when not holding a united front of "THIS is why..."

I think the right to ask WHY is a DIVINE RIGHT of sovereign beings and the exploration a true science of our birthright as thinking/feeling beings.

Think of ALL the paradigm wars that disallow alternative POV and IMO the underlying war is to establish who is boss over us all. We are to BOW to that authority. Religious worship and scientific DEFERENCE to authority are all about "There is a boss, some Divine Masculine KING at the pinnacle of power and YOU are not He". We just see a pendulum swing as to whom we should have as the controlers of OUR MINDS.

I read this today in an old forum Science and Spirituality. It is from a poster David Kay. I think it had food for thought.


Rationalism and materialism seem associated. When we experience something that may or may not be supernatural, we call the materialist explanation the rational explanation.



Rationalism received an upsurge in the Enlightenment, which tried to reduce the influence of religion. They demanded the separation of the Church and the State. It seems that rationalism is materialistic.



Looking at it in the historical context, it seems a little more complicated. Christianity is a religion that raises more questions than it answers. Why the Divine Incarnation? The explanation for the crucifixion is that it absolved us from the sin of Adam, but how can we be absolved by an action which we did not accomplish ourselves? Why are we guilty of the sin of Adam when we did not commit it ourselves? Why did the absolving not take place immediately after the sin was committed?



Christianity is not really satisfying to an enquiring mind, so this would cause inquisitive people to look to the study of material properties for knowledge, but there's more to it than this. Christianity was hostile to enquiring minds. There were Inquisitions to prevent it, and they acted with great cruelty. We like to think that England was a more liberal country, but a bookseller was fined for selling a copy of Thomas Pain's book The Age Of Reason. There was not freedom of thought in England.



Intelligent people must have pondered over the questions raised by Christianity. Thomas A Kempis, in The Imitation Of Christ, says that we should not speculate about matters relating to God, because he knew of cases where this led to doubts. People must have felt angry that they could not discuss doubts openly.

It was better to study the properties of matter because that was safe. Even theoretical science could be dangerous, as Galileo found out. It was safest to stick to mechanics. Nobody was ever hauled before an Inquisition for inventing a machine. The reason why rationalism was anti-religion was because religion was antirational. It must have seemed to a lot of people that the rational approach to religion was to kick the whole thing over. Materialism is the revenge of rationalism against religion. It acted in self defence.



There is the question of the supernatural in religion. How does the supernatural happen?



All patriarchal religion falters on the inability to imagine Creation as a masculine thing. Even the rationalistic religion of Hermetism had difficulty with this, and decided that the Father is beyond all conceptualisation. Logically, if this is true, then spiritual development is impossible by any method, because it implies that there is no quality in us which reflects the spirit. It requires a denial of the principle of Divine Ideas being reflected into the world, which means that it is impossible to see the world as an outer manifestation of the Divine. The world and the spirit must therefore have nothing to do with each other. It led to the belief in what is called the Clockmaker God, that is a God Who created the world, wound it up, and left it to run like a clock. In this perspective, there can be no manifestation of the supernatural in the world, and no way that ritual and ceremony can work. This made it possible for Atheists to discredit Christianity by pointing to its supernatural element. It is why the Protestants abolished the Mass, and declared the principle of transubstantiation, by which the bread is transformed into the body of Christ, to be mumbo jumbo. The hostility to ritual has led to a lot of people believing that marriage is wrong. "Why this ritual?" I am asked.



Some Christians have gone so far as to declare priests an evil, and there are some modern sects which don't have priests.



We are left with a religion that makes it necessary to believe many things without any reason for supposing them to be true. This makes it necessary for people to have an irrational mind to practice religion without doubt. So, when the materialists claim to have a monopoly on reason, the religious leaders do not dispute it. They urge it, because they want to discredit reason. Having reached this state, we find that the material sciences have given us explanations for things that religion did not. We come to the conclusion that science is the basis of understanding, and the basis of civilisation, ousting religion from the position of making this claim.



And now comes Evolution. We know that the fossil record proves that Genesis is not true, but does that prove that all Creation explanations are not true? The problem is that Christianity had a monopoly on religion. If you were religious, you were Christian. If you were not Christian, you were not religious. Christianity discredited Pagan religions by making people think they were more primitive. They persuaded people that the Pagans believed the statues of the gods to be the gods. Anybody familiar with Classical religion will know this is not true, but many people believed it. Ironically, this put Christianity into an evolutionist perspective, and so gains credit for Evolutionism. It enabled Frazer, in The Golden Bough, to argue that civilisation is an evolutionary progress from magical thinking, to religious thinking, ending in scientific thinking, implying that materialism is the truth. Christianity fell victim to its own propaganda.



The problem that Christianity has it that it cannot create an explanation of Creation by explaining that all organisms are manifestations of Divine Ideas falling into matter, and that the simpler organisms fell first to give an impression of evolution. This is consistent with the fossil record, but is not acceptable because of lack of understanding of Divine Ideas, and because Christians don't want a rival explanation to Genesis. The Christians have adapted to Evolutionism by declaring that the Bible is not literal truth, which leaves the question of Creation unresolved, and adds credence to materialism. Evolution is unquestioned, making the origin of life explained by materialism.



In the modern world, the material sciences are the only thing that encourages enquiring minds, except for a few who read philosophy, and a few who study the occult. We think that scientists are the most intelligent people, but do not expect clerics to be more than reasonably intelligent. We look to science for the answers. Most people do not believe that meditation can lead to a higher understanding. There has been a decline in the regard for science of late, and this is accompanied by a decline in the regard for the intellect. We see that science harms the ecology and threatens the survival of life, and conclude that intellect harms the ecology. We see science and intellect as the same thing. People cannot find satisfaction for enquiring minds in religion. We are moving into the Age of Aquarius, when people will value knowledge above all. Religion must provide that if it is to survive. That requires that religion be based on the principle of Divine Ideas, which requires acceptance for the feminine nature of religion. Most people find that unacceptable. Better the end of the world.

David Kay

[greybeard]

Where I am coming from

Context is all important.

My situation.
I have five Grand Children all affected by coronavirus regulations and more.
The oldest age 25 has to wear a mask to work..
Girls 22 and 19 have had their education put on hold till now and its wear masks in corridors and no more than six people together out with school/University, two meters apart of course.

The two youngest, just over one year old and the other just started primary school.

Their Mum, Erin, my daughter in law, is a beautiful clever woman, from New York born and bred .
She met my son at University in Dundee.
Indoctrinated into a vaccine culture she has had almost seventy shots, my son three.
Guess who will be first in line to get these kids, my flesh and blood too. Vaccinated.

Grandparents are not listened to these days.

Now here is a major point.

My ex wife Ita, a nurse, has not been allowed to visit the Grand children since March.

Why!!! because Erin fully believes that the virus is dangerous for all ages in spite of evidence that kids dont get it.
Ita being a nurse is sure to be carrier of the virus, in Erin.s eyes

Ita is gutted as you might expect.

All my family are self employed and in danger of loosing these separate businesses that took years to build. They employ people – those jobs at risk.

Any concerned Father -Grandparent would bang a drum surely?

For myself Im nor concerned -- it will come right.
However, the pain and suffering is very real for many.

I have five children and was self employed virtually all my life.
My experience of life in this field is first hand.
I feel for those who are self employed.

At one point in time I was elected as “The Chairman of the Highland Branch of The Federation of Self Employed “ also “Chairman of The Highland Association of Registered Care Homes.”
The members elected me as they knew I would fight for their rights and I did till our Care Home went to the wall.
I know what it is when you have a mortgage and children to support and no occupation.
This is going to happen to a lot of people.

The UK Government keeps reimposing lockdown on cases, tested by ----
not on the mortality rate.
This is why I have repeatedly posted about the tests, this is the one mechanism that they use to justify all their actions.

For me this is not an intellectual discussion as to whether I posted too much or not –

This post it is real personal experience shared
I could say a lot more but out of respect for opposing views–will say no more

Chris

[greybeard]

Science should reflect reality.
Sometimes it discovers something unknown --but it was a reality before discovery.
Nothing unreal exists.
I have reposted this video as it opened my eyes to many untruths and also how Wikipedia trashes scientists reputation who come out with facts contra to materialistic "theories"
Removing their valid qualifications.
Same happened with those asking for further investigation into the possible link between vaccines and Autism
Dr Wakefield for just one.

Well worth watching to the end.
Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocP6JSyicY0

[Old Student]

Reading through the quote from David Kay, it presents a kind of duality, between religion and scientific "rationalism" which holds to the material world. I'm not sure the landscape and the choices are not more complex. And reveal a "divine feminine" in the world of scientific thought as well.

Mathematics is called the "Queen of the Sciences". It is called that by some (mostly mathematicians) because they believe it to be a pinnacle. But the original meaning is that it is wedded to the sciences but is not science itself. It has no reason to be encumbered by either physics or matter, but is necessary for the understanding of and furthering of physics. Physics deals with the material world only. Mathematics does not.

[araucaria]

Greybeard, most of the below was written before your return. Welcome back. Over the weekend, my wife emptied a bookshelf on the landing, instructing me to deal with it. As if I could deal with a hundred books without looking inside :) One was a study on GK Chesterton, who was the closest equivalent a century ago to a popular blogger today, and to whom I have made reference in the past. Here, for you, Chris, is a quote from that book that will readily serve as an epigraph to the rest of this post:

In Manalive, Chesterton’s view of mental illness and its treatment has developed from the premisses suggested in ‘Orthodoxy’. Community can only be restored by strengthening the family to the point where it is independent of the state. Mystery can only be restored by the drastic tactics of Innocent Smith, the sane man turned outlaw. John Coates, Chesterton and the Edwardian Cultural Crisis, Hull University Press, 1984, p. 227) ‘So what happens when everyone turns into a conspiracy theorist?’
Good question; there is no easy answer, which is why these are perilous times.

Let’s get the positive stuff out of the way. Yes, we seem to have passed from the whistleblower stage to the universal conspiracy theorist stage. Why? Probably because all the work at homes have been doing a little more online research than they would have done in the office. This will pan out as many with a job to do actually performing their task a bit better. Police will investigate beyond the usual suspects, the courts will prosecute some who seemed beyond their reach. And the one parliamentarian in the UK required to launch impeachment proceedings against Johnson may be found. He has a huge majority, but the standard procedure for a huge majority is a backbench revolt, where the junior members form an opposition of their own. Since the opposition leader is a former chief prosecutor, the prospects for such an action are rather good, since any half-decent judge is looking for SUBSTANCE. If this sort of thing began happening all over the place, then it could become very interesting. I am talking about people doing the job there are paid to do, only with a little less despair, and a little more hope. An incoming tide floating all our boats at once. The role of the general public in this will be to provide the backing of public opinion and perhaps also demonstrations in the street.

This is the future I wish for and expect: nothing spectacular at all, but somewhere down the line it will be noted that a revolution has taken place. But to get there, there are a number of considerations to be taken into account and thought through which are germane to the discussion on this thread. They relate to the opposition, which is not about to vanish overnight. If we are talking about the general public all becoming conspiracy theorists, then most of them will not have done their homework or the spiritual work done by the likes of Avalonians or whoever. This may be conceived as a brake; however, I would suggest that it is just the reverse.

I have been hinting for some time that conspiracy theorizing is bad for you – or if you prefer, not very scientific or logical. In various ways. Let me explain further.

Occam’s razor – a scientific concept – suggests that we avoid introducing more entities than are strictly necessary. If we apply this to language, and accept that the vast majority of speakers are not scientists, with one word for one thing or concept, then it follows that our language has far too many words describing the same things. Accordingly, it might be interesting and valuable to pare things down as far as we dare, and take it from there. No doubt some concepts that seemed miles apart will coalesce, not like poetic rhymes or metaphors, but as strict lexical synonyms.

If we pare things right back, we have earthbound humanity in a physical environment, and with a growing mental/non-physical capacity. Nothing else is required, no alien worlds or alien people: nothing else is required In other words, we have a daytime reality, and nighttime dreams, which are somehow unreal. Hence two types of people: for one type grounded in reality, dreams are good or bad, but are kept apart. For the other type, dreams are good and spill over into reality. The dreamer becomes a sleepwalker acting out their dreams. Only for the others, these sweet dreams are nightmares. And that includes the alien worlds and alien people; and rightly so, because they are invariably engaged in warfare, local, global, interplanetary, interstellar warfare. While these others are simply living their quiet lives, looking after their family, their farm, whatever. Now if you scale things back right up, what do you find? The elite, and the conspiracy theorists, are together spouting all this dream stuff that has no grounding in reality.

I have been quoting the hypnotherapist Jack True, who encouraged people, as one way of using their imagination, to create multiple dreams in the waking state in order to create their reality. He was doing this mostly with ordinary good people, but the fact is that the elite, on the other side of the big divide, having been doing this all along. My point is that if this is the type of enlightenment being promoted by the alternative media, then we have two possibly novel ideas to contend with. One is that the ones are merely catching up with the others, in which case they seem to be creating the conflict that they don’t want. Jack True’s ’matrix’ is constructed in exactly the same way as he proposes to escape from it. In other words, his method of giving a free rein to ‘Imagination’ has already been hijacked by the other side.

The other idea is that we now have billions of dreamers, and just a few long-term experts. Given human evolution over millennia, the wildest dreams of the experts are now our worst nightmares, and yet they are being sleepwalked into our current reality. The problem then becomes, how do we wake up, and revert to purely daytime encounters with hard reality, away from all the dreaming?

I suggested we had too many lexical items, making for some unlikely synonyms. Dreaming, nightmares, fascism, nihilism, AI, we are making all kinds of distinctions that are not leading to greater clarity but on the contrary are muddying the water. One example of where this process leads is the idea of ‘strategic relocation’ on this forum. We are all attached to some part of the planet through birth and perhaps other defining moments in life: we are where we are for good reasons. One synonym for ‘strategic relocation’ might be ‘head for the hills’, another ‘western migration’. You get into the impossible tangle whereby for example xenophobic johnsonism leads to Brexit because of foreign immigration, and the answer is to… apply for an EU passport and emigrate.

What we are seeing, as I have hinted at many times before, is that conspiracy theory is actually enabling the cabal to create its nightmare world. In other words, it is itself that part of the nightmare that is leaking out into reality; call it perhaps lucid dreaming, but so far it has not changed anything much. On the contrary, it has been magnifying and empowering the diabolical death wish in every conceivable direction, in space and time. The entire Cosmos is at war and has been so for eons. Every civilization on earth has now been brought into the picture, not just those that have left traces, but others before them that have not such as Atlantis or Lemuria. Another word for the nightmare is madness, and uncovering all this stuff is part of the madness. The road to sanity is through people who have been awake all along and trying to keep the sleepwalkers out of (self-)harm’s way. These are the only ‘aliens’ required, who are not aliens at all, being fully human except for the madness.

The way forward, then, is to minimize everything as much as possible. What we actually know of the Cosmos, beyond our wild imaginings is very little: a few photons through a telescope and reams of complex mathematics to turn it into something huge. If this works like PCR, then that sounds about right. Here is a more trivial example. When the English in the 19th century codified the game of soccer, for some years the Old Etonians were the best team. They were ‘world-beaters’, except that the world in question was no bigger than little England. Now imagine the likes of Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Cameron taking on Real Madrid or Liverpool, and you will get the idea as to how far humanity has progressed in a very short time. Or, looking through the other end of the telescope, just how primitive it was still when some of our grandparents were alive.

The idea then is that the huge monster of the nightmare is a figment of the imagination, to be brought down to actual size in the light of day. In the novel Perelandra (see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111554-C.S.-Lewis-The-Space-Trilogy&p=1370528&viewfull=1#post1370528)). C.S. Lewis goes back to the earliest Adam-and-Eve conditions, when his hero discovers that all he has to do to eliminate the ‘all-powerful’ Satan from Venus is to engage in hand-to-hand combat with, and kill, a middle-aged academic like himself; something small enough to be doable and yet hugely significant. It is a man-sized target and, like many modern sportsmen facing defeat, he is able to do a little more than he thought possible – that is all that is required. We are looking for champions, not GOATs (greatest of all time), just winners.

A stitch in time saves nine. We have reached the point where nine stitches may be necessary, but at least we can save the garment. We are not fighting some Cosmic Devil, we are simply at the next stage in our evolution where honest people will have an opportunity to assert themselves in small, natural ways as I described above. Some people in high places need to go to jail. They have taken incompetence to new heights by recording their own misdeeds for purposes of bribery with the side-effect of building up a conclusive case for their conviction. The same goes for government ministers brazenly admitting to parliament that they want to tear up an international agreement they signed for themselves only last year. We have a justice and law enforcement system in place to deal with them. To state that ‘everyone turns into a conspiracy theorist’ is simply one way of saying that the zeitgeist is favourable to that actually occurring, meaning that those with real power are now in a position to wield it effectively.

You see that no Hegelian Dialectics are needed. Why? Because the antithesis being ‘nothing’, the synthesis is merely a reiteration of the thesis.
The ‘bottom line’, or should I say, world view, that may be drawn from the above is that, yes we are living in a matrix, the way a trainee pilot is living in a matrix in a flight simulator. That way, when he discovers a glitch in his performance or in the hardware, no lives are lost, no irretrievable damage is done. But that is simply from a personnel training viewpoint. Taking this further, you have the situation of Human Species x.0: some technicians will be trained to see what, if anything, can go wrong. From the standpoint of the ordinary human, this would resemble the devil incarnate. And yet, from the viewpoint of a developer of a viable species, there is strictly no evil intended or involved, and no one out to eat us!

Below the ‘bottom line’, then, what do we have? We have a safety net, which is the exact opposite of original sin. We can do no wrong, beyond what has already been documented over eons. What we can do is reveal unexpected potential leading to Human Species x.1. To do that, we need to relax, meaning for starters, release the hand brake :)

The above, as always, is posted somewhat as stream of consciousness; i.e. before logical appraisal sets in to disturb the thought. My apologies for loss of clarity.

[greybeard]

Quote In Manalive, Chesterton’s view of mental illness and its treatment has developed from the premisses suggested in ‘Orthodoxy’. Community can only be restored by strengthening the family to the point where it is independent of the state. Mystery can only be restored by the drastic tactics of Innocent Smith, the sane man turned outlaw. John Coates, Chesterton and the Edwardian Cultural Crisis, Hull University Press, 1984, p. 227)

Thanks for this araucaria

Family so important
At the beginning of this virus situation my Ex Ita thought I was a conspiracy theorist and smiled at me.
At that time the local hospital was virtually empty to make way for Virus cases -- there were very few.

She is a bank nurse and got no shifts for months, no patients no essential operations.
No income.
Then the hospital got busy with non covad cases.
Ita had to wear a mask -- super fit --she collapsed reduced oxygen intake.
She compared notes with other nurse -- not just in Inverness.
Same story. You wont see this in the media.

Then she watched the Professor Dolores Cahill video of her talk in Ireland.
Ita is from Dublin.
I did not give her the video --a nursing friend suggested it.

I found way back the last person to try to convince a woman is her husband especially an Ex.

She was totally convinced of the validity of what Professor Cahill was saying that she booked to go to the demonstration in Edinburgh which was rather larger than the press made out.

The Cabal would try to divide and conquer especially in families and friends labelling some as conspiracy theorists.

Thankfully my family is sound.

Chris

[onawah]

VERY Good News!!
Covid update: The grand Ohio legal case for our time, against kings on their thrones
by Jon Rappoport
9/15/20
—You can hate the law until it’s not there anymore—
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/09/15/grand-ohio-covid-legal-case-against-kings-on-their-thrones/

"The news is coming fast, the implications are titanic.

On Monday, I wrote about Thomas Renz, the Ohio lawyer who is taking on a case for a set of plaintiffs, against Ohio Governor Mike DeWine and the state of Ohio.

The charge: DeWine has created massive damage through lockdowns and other “containment measures” designed to stop the spread of the purported coronavirus.

Against DeWine, attorney Renz has mounted a legal case to defeat both Constitutional violations AND gross scientific fraud.

(Attorney press release posted here; Attorney plaintiff document filed with court posted here: https://renzlaw.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/case-complaint-final-1.pdf)

Update: A crucial part of this case is the DISCOVERY process. Attorney Renz and his colleagues would have the opportunity to sit down with key players in the COVID operation and grill them, in great detail, on matters of fact and science.

Imagine Fauci, Birx, Redfield in the room having to answer very probing questions UNDER OATH.

And the discovery proceedings would be made public, as they happen. Renz would be filing periodic reports with the court.

Another factor. The Ohio court, as part of its verdict, could grant PERMANENT INJUNCTIVE RELIEF. This means it could order the governor of Ohio to cancel the State of Emergency—thereby ending all orders and “containment measures” connected with the Emergency. No lockdowns, no mandatory masks, no mandatory distancing.

Yes, I’m aware that nothing is a slam-dunk in the judicial system. Fingers crossed. But this is a chance, an opportunity, a ray of light, a practical and real possibility.

Further, attorney Renz’s case is a model and a template for other lawyers, in other states and countries, who want to file similar cases.

When a government declares an Emergency, it must explain and justify it on the facts, not on lies and deceptions. Otherwise…

The Constitution no longer exists.

The Law no longer exists.

In their place, there is a reversion to a time of arbitrary edicts, handed down from kings and their wise ones who must not be doubted or challenged.

On what rational basis has Governor Mike DeWine taken away the freedom of citizens? Where is his evidence? What is the quality of that evidence, beyond the mere claim that “experts are always right”?

In his law suit against Governor DeWine, attorney Renz takes up big questions:

What are the REAL COVID case and death numbers?

How much flim-flam has been deployed to cook those numbers?

What is the underhanded definition of a COVID case?

Why is the PCR test useless?

Can a strip of RNA stand in for a virus that isn’t defined?

Is this a pandemic or is it just “another flu season?”

These are just a few of the many questions attorney Renz raises in his lengthy Ohio court filing. He has shocking answers. They do not depend on the news or the assumed primacy of the Coronavirus Task Force or a sitting president or a presidential candidate or a political party or governors. The answers don’t depend on what Governor DeWine thinks or what he has been told.

You could compare this case to a proceeding in which the evidence of a law-enforcement lab is challenged purely on the merits of its findings. The name of the lab doesn’t matter. The government agency which houses the lab doesn’t matter. The so-called reputation of the lab doesn’t matter. What matters is a searchlight centering on fact and truth.

The serious nature of the Ohio proceeding is magnified, because at stake is the freedom of many, many citizens. Their liberty, as enshrined in basic Law, is on the line.

We’re at a crossroads. This case and what happens to it are of vital importance.

Attorney Renz is asking for a jury trial. Citizens would be empaneled to listen to a profound and detailed UNCOVERING of evidentiary fraud, on a truly massive scale. And then this jury would hear how the fraud is leveraging the lockdowns and the destruction of businesses and lives, and the removal of freedom.

This case puts its arms around the immediate future of the country, the Constitution, the basic concept of Law, the difference between a jury and a King, and whatever still remains of 1776.

This case dives into the difference between claims of science, and science, and who controls the distinction.

Winning this one would expose a scientific fraud so solid, so dense, the whole world would see an iron curtain of a century’s duration exploding in front of their eyes.

Victory requires one imperative: follow the Law.

CODA…BREAKING… More good news: federal judge declares Pennsylvania governor’s COVID restrictions unconstitutional.

Bricks are falling out of the walls of the American imprisonment—

CBS News, Pittsburgh: “U.S. District Judge William Stickman IV, an appointee of President Donald Trump, sided with the plaintiffs. Stickman wrote in his ruling that the [Pennsylvania] Wolf administration’s pandemic policies have been overreaching, arbitrary and violated citizens’ constitutional rights…”

FOX News: “The ruling found that [Pennsylvania Governor] Wolf’s restrictions that required people to stay at home, placed size limits on gatherings and ordered ‘non-life-sustaining’ businesses to shut down were unconstitutional.”

In this case, the judge made his ruling strictly on Constitutional grounds. His conclusion is worth reading:

“…even in an emergency, the authority of the government is not unfettered. The liberties protected by the Constitution are not fair-weather freedoms — in place when times are good but able to be cast aside in times of trouble. There is no question that this Country has faced, and will face, emergencies of every sort. But the solution to a national crisis can never be permitted to supersede the commitment to individual liberty that stands as the foundation of the American experiment. The Constitution cannot accept the concept of a ‘new normal’ where the basic liberties of the people can be subordinated to open-ended emergency mitigation measures. Rather, the Constitution sets certain lines that may not be crossed, even in an emergency. Action taken by Defendants [Governor Wolf] crossed those lines. It is the duty of the Court to declare those actions unconstitutional. Thus, consistent with the reasons set forth above, the Court will enter judgement in favor of Plaintiffs.”

United States District Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania, US District Judge William S Stickman IV, County of Butler et al v. [Governor] Thomas W Wolf et al.

NO emergency is so great that it supersedes individual liberty and freedom.

Even if the science underlying the official response to COVID were true (which it decidedly is NOT), it wouldn’t justify tearing away Constitutional and natural freedoms.

The resistance to tyranny is alive.

A million peaceful protestors in Berlin; 460,000 bikers riding into Sturgis, South Dakota, where Governor Kristi Noem has never locked down; numerous other protests the mainstream press refuses to cover; the new groundbreaking Ohio lawsuit filing I’ve been covering; untold millions of people who know what a sham and a crime the whole COVID operation really is…

Lights are coming on and the wind has changed direction."

Also posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111445-Jon-Rappoport-on-the-Covid-Hoax&p=1378266&viewfull=1#post1378266

[greybeard]

Launch of SpectatorTV - Andrew Neil on The Week in 60 Minutes | The Spectator
Anrew Neil is a top reporter in UK

The test fully explained by a Top professor.

It is becoming clear that science got it wrong regarding test vs reality.
The number of cases going up, hospitalisation falling, death rate virtually nil.
The video explains fully why this is happening.
This program is important as this is main stream news reporting.
Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WdzMVekUBU

[Bill Ryan]

Mod questions from Bill:

Why is this thread called Scientific Materialism versus Truth? Why is it in the Alternative Science (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?151-Alternative-Science) section?

Why are members posting Covid news here when there are already over 50 Covid threads? (Go count them.)

Judging by the intriguing promise of the title, this thread could showcase a really interesting discussion on the philosophy and history of science and the scientific method, and the meaning of "truth".

But it's not about any of that at all. This is yet another bulletin board about Covid, as if we needed any more. (At first it seemed to be about 5G, but then that changed.)

What should the thread title be amended to? What section should it be in? Or which thread(s) should it be merged with?

[greybeard]

Please shift my last post to a more suitable thread Bill.
That many threads over there Im not sure where it fits
Best wishes
Chris

[araucaria]

With respect, I don’t think this thread calls for more moderation because the main issue seems to be that it strays into non-consensual areas not in line with the forum’s, for want of a better phrase, ‘editorial stance’. The problem is that the scientists are on the mod team and moderating, rather than discussing substantive issues. Science is notably about lone voices disagreeing, and Rupert Sheldrake is the embodiment of that principle, being also an eminent scientist. Since his video was posted only yesterday and is bang on topic, I don’t think generally speaking that we have strayed too far (but then, I’m not a mod). I also think it is impossible in 2020 to avoid the covid19 issue altogether with regard to just about anything, but particularly with respect to scientific practices, which are at the forefront of much debating going on. So while I agree that a more theoretical discussion would be extremely worthwhile, I don’t think there is all that much that needs to be changed on this thread.

[greybeard]

Regarding the most recent of my posts
The Week in 60 minutes.
The professor gives a very fair analysis of the situation and to my satisfaction explains spikes and flattening the curve,
He explains that he is for the tests for what they were designed to do and points out that these test can not prove the person is ill, nor infectious.
The diagnosis is at fault not the test.
People are making a fortune out of lying to the public--using false information.
Billionaires fortunes have gone up substantially since March -- I wonder why?
So loosely Science materialism has caused this extreme situation.
There is no regard for the truth which has been posted by quite a few on this thread.

Chris

[Agape]

Loosely thought ...

I think it’s because there are 3 main (strong and weak) forces operating in the Universe, One is the Law of Attraction, Three is the Law of Repulsion and Two is the Law of Mathematics.

These forces have multiple names and pathways, of course.

While purest in the abstract, the Law of mathematics, dharma and scientific materialism are steadfast and possible to verify with some effort

the Law of Attraction : Love, Life and its innate intelligence are faster. We detect before we even acknowledge the existence of alien to us phenomena,
we feel and reflect or deflect biologically faster than we process mentally.

We live faster than we read :)

Do any of these phenomena we are attracted to or in fight with represent truth ?

Does any abstract Law really represent truth ?

Do these forces I’m talking about represent truth ?


Indeed does Universe present us with options to engage or disengage with any particular phenomenon or seek freedom from it or seek affinity with it ?


Can truth be contained in someone’s hypothesis or narrative even if it contained all human libraries ?


In all languages ever spoken ..


Then why are people, fundamentally speaking still searching for new expressions everyday ?

Does it not prove the supremacy of life over “deus ex machina” ?



🙏

[Ernie Nemeth]

Yup.
All I know for sure right now is that I am very unsure of most things at the moment.

This thread could be inserted in the cognitive dissonance thread without even derailing it as a good example of that very thing.

Every one of us is guilty of it. It is unavoidable. No matter how careful we are in maintaining an objective stance, our own bias will creep in and overwhelm us, making it seem to ourselves that we are the level-headed one. It is the nature we have been programmed with or it is human nature, or maybe even mammalian nature. I don't know. Maybe we are incapable of ever being purely objective because of the fundamental subjective nature of our lives.

But the discussion only sometimes gets around to scientific materialism vs. truth. Except as that relates to any particular subjective viewpoint, and using the title of the thread as a point in favor of it, regardless which side of the debate the viewpoint favors.

Scientists argue from a position of authority, meaning holding the establishment point of view, whatever that might be defined as, and it has been defined in every which way. And the truthers argue that materialism cannot be truth, refuting the authority of the establishment.

Note the difference, establishment means the accepted viewpoint. The accepted viewpoint cannot be argued because it is accepted. Until it is not. Then it becomes self-evident to everyone.

So what we are perhaps witnessing here, is the cognitive dissonance preceding a reordering of established dogma. Or not.

One side will give way because it must. But for right now there is impasse, where both sides might believe the other side is not being rational. Both sides have irrefutable proof, and are convinced it is without bias. Until the facts are in we cannot be sure...

I wonder how sure it is appropriate to be right now about anything?

[onawah]

As I've explained before here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-versus-Truth&p=1377114&viewfull=1#post1377114
...(perhaps you didn't see it, Bill) I used the term "scientific materialism" not knowing that it referred to a more philosophical aspect about science itself.
I meant it in the way I have seen it used more recently, such as in the Dr. Kaufman video which was included in post #1 of this thread.
5G has been included in the discussion because there is plenty of good evidence (Exomatrix has provided a wealth of it!) showing that 5G can exacerbate symptoms that are being attributed to Covid, so that is well within the parameters of the discussion as outlined in the OP.
That is, in referring to "fake science" which obfuscates the truth, twists the facts or simply lies, and is being used to further agendas whose real goal is simply profit--thus the term "materialism".
See: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/materialism
updated: Definition:" the philosophical theory that regards matter and its motions as constituting the universe, and all phenomena, including those of mind, as due to material agencies."
Also:
"preoccupation with or emphasis on material objects, comforts, and considerations, with a disinterest in or rejection of spiritual, intellectual, or cultural values."(--thus leaving out the higher faculties of intuition, imagination, conscience. )

So actually, the term as it is defined both ways dovetail quite nicely and fit very well into this discussion, imho.

(updated: Also, the focus should be on when lies are being told by omission--that is, when things like 5G or vaccines are claimed to be safe and the science proving it to be "settled" when there have been no legitimate studies at all that have actually proven that. Especially when the studies that have supposedly proven safety have been shown to be inaccurate, the facts skewed, or facts omitted or obfuscated.)

I put the OP under Alternative Science because it seems that that is how some of the real science is now being viewed by the mainstream, as opposed to science that is often being presented by the mainstream media as being the "accepted" and uncontested science (and is NOT!!)
Perhaps not the best choices on my part, but I'm not concerned about how the thread has evolved, which may be a bit confusing to some, but is one of the more interesting and important threads on Avalon, imho.

I don't think we are taking up too much space or being rude or violating any hard Avalon rules, are we?
We are certainly presenting credible evidence from sources who have proven their worth.

One reason, as a few of us have stated before, for this ongoing discussion is that there seems to be a tendency lately for you and/or Frank to use your clout as the Admin. to target posts that don't agree with your particular views on masking, Covid testing, and/or certain issues having to do with vaccines.
And I think that has been of particular concern to certain members who have been posting about those issues here and elsewhere on the forum.
And the troubling way that that ties in with the censoring of credible information in the mainstream media of anything having to do with masking, Covid testing, and the dangers of vaccines.
I think you can understand why this is a concern to us yet so far as I know, it has not really been addressed by you as yet.
I've even wondered if you are being pressured by someone from "the other side".
Because Avalon is supposed to be a forum where we can air such views, even if they don't agree with the Admin.
Please forgive my bluntness, but it seems that you may actually be more concerned with that than with the broad and rather rambling scope of this thread.

For anyone who is interested, there is more here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111942-A-Supercomputer-Analyzed-Covid-19-and-an-Interesting-New-Theory-Has-Emerged&p=1378044&viewfull=1#post1378044
...that is relevant to this discussion.


Mod questions from Bill:

Why is this thread called Scientific Materialism versus Truth? Why is it in the Alternative Science (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?151-Alternative-Science) section?

Why are members posting Covid news here when there are already over 50 Covid threads? (Go count them.)

Judging by the intriguing promise of the title, this thread could showcase a really interesting discussion on the philosophy and history of science and the scientific method, and the meaning of "truth".

But it's not about any of that at all. This is yet another bulletin board about Covid, as if we needed any more. (At first it seemed to be about 5G, but then that changed.)

What should the thread title be amended to? What section should it be in? Or which thread(s) should it be merged with?

[greybeard]

It does seem that the agenda of the cabal -- test -- mask is being supported to a certain degree on this forum.
Perhaps unconsciously.

Bill you called the test a blunt instrument --well blunt instruments kill and it continues to be used very effectively in the UK.

Fact, the death rates UK are almost nil the, Government is testing more and more therefore the number of cases increases and the number of cases is used by the Boris to predict further lockdown and threatened closure of schools.
The public are of course blamed for a spike in positives -- the number of people hospitalised falls to almost zero.

The video I posted most recently is very clear and that is expert opinion.

A positive case does not indicate that the person has anything that is transferable or is in anyway ill.
Yet as said it is used to justify more draconian measures --killing people, yes lockdown does that, and ruining the econemy.
Bankrupting people --so who will pay for their mortgage --we are talking about homeless, not enough homes for rent.
Of course NWO and Reset will save the world!!!

The number of suicides is probably escalating I cant find a full rate
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/male-suicides-at-highest-rate-in-20-years/
I think we need to fully support David Icke
Do not acquiesce, no masks, no testing.

Chris

[Sue (Ayt)]

I don't fully trust "science".
Scientific Materialism, well, materialism--->money system---> Power, ultimately. It is becoming more and more obvious to most of us in this 3-D creation.

Nor do I fully trust media, nor politics, nor education, nor economics, nor finance, nor religion, nor the medical system, nor new-age literature, nor textbooks, nor... well, anything in this 3-D reflection?
I really don't need more much more evidence of the inconsistencies. Guess I am more interested at this point in the agenda behind the blatant and apparent propaganda that is being insidiously installed into all our psyches.

I wonder if anyone who comes here to PA is not already fairly convinced of the manipulation going on. (like Chris said at some point, a lot of his postings are speaking to the still-blind believers in the propaganda being put out there, in most ALL disciplines.) Many of us have been involved in the wake-up call for years! The good news, as I see it, is that it is actually working! YAY. We are seeing the evidence right now, although it sure is tumultuous as we are having our anchors pulled up faster than ever.

BUT - I do also love to examine as many aspects of all of these disciplines in my feeble attempt to get an ever bigger overview. I think of it as "zooming in" and "zooming out". I have no problem zooming in to the minutia, as I know there are people of great intelligence and curiosity who are drawn to every field, and their discoveries can be valuable gems. The facets of human intelligence are so unique and far-flung, that I try to take care not to negate any exciting tid-bit that a mind might dredge up.

[silvanelf]

Judging by the intriguing promise of the title, this thread could showcase a really interesting discussion on the philosophy and history of science and the scientific method, and the meaning of "truth".

But it's not about any of that at all. This is yet another bulletin board about Covid, as if we needed any more. (At first it seemed to be about 5G, but then that changed.)

What should the thread title be amended to? What section should it be in? Or which thread(s) should it be merged with?

I think you are misreading the title -- because I made the same mistake.

The title says it all: Scientific Materialism versus Truth (aka Alternative Science). In this way the title suggested that Scientific Materialism is wrong -- so who cares about the philosophy and history of mainstream science? The wording directed the debate away from this questions and encouraged others to post comments about Alternative Science.

:P
What should the thread title be amended to? What section should it be in? Or which thread(s) should it be merged with?

A more appropriate title may be something like


"Alternative Science regarding covid-19"
or


"Just Another Thread about Alternative Science" :P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've found just 3 posts about the philosophy and history of science and the scientific method, especially about the dominant role of Scientific Materialism:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-versus-Truth&p=1377993&viewfull=1#post1377993
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-versus-Truth&p=1378132&viewfull=1#post1378132
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-versus-Truth&p=1378145&viewfull=1#post1378145

You may create a new thread like "Science is based on Materialism -- but why?" or something like this. But it's possible that such a thread will flooded with "alternative viewpoints" in the same way as Frank's thread about the Bradykinin Hypothesis was derailed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Reading through the quote from David Kay, it presents a kind of duality, between religion and scientific "rationalism" which holds to the material world. I'm not sure the landscape and the choices are not more complex.

The landscape of philosophy and history of science is much more complex, for sure. But where to begin? And how many people on this forum are interested in a more detailed reflection?

For example, it makes sense to replace the duality between religion and scientific "rationalism" by three different fields:

religion -- especially Christianity, because we are talking about the development of science since medieval times in the Western World
science based on rational thinking and empirical "facts"
metaphysics, a branch of philosophy which is based on rational thinking, but it has no support in empirical facts


Some major topics which belong to the field of metaphysics:

questions about space and time
the relation between the mental and the physical
free will
ethics
aesthetics

[greybeard]

Yes silvanelf, agreed.
My posts were inline with the opening video.
Chris

[araucaria]

Our friend Carmody is a scientist, who for reasons of his own doesn't post much these days. However, I can bring him to this thread via a post (responding to something I wrote) that was originally public until my thread was removed to the members only section, which is why I am quoting it in extenso. It covers the subject of language in general and scientific language in particular.


The bottom line is that there are no closed systems. This holds for language too. Basically, what I am saying is to warn against taking language as a closed system that somehow equates with, is equivalent to, the world as a closed system that it can represent on a one-on-one basis, and the self as a closed system that it can likewise express. Not so: language is an open system that is so far from exhausting the open systems that are the world and the self. It is process all the way, near total incompleteness. "It is estimated that the there are between 10^78 to 10^82 atoms in the known, observable universe. In layman's terms, that works out to between ten quadrillion vigintillion and one-hundred thousand quadrillion vigintillion atoms."

"The Second Edition of the 20-volume Oxford English Dictionary contains full entries for 171,476 words in current use, and 47,156 obsolete words. To this may be added around 9,500 derivative words included as subentries."

Since the 'base' or number of words in the english language is approximately 80,000 words, give or take a few, and the arrangement patterns have additional modifications to meaning....when one does the rough calculation, one finds that the potential number of words and meanings in a sentence, in the English language alone.... more than likely exceeds the number of atoms in the universe.

Does language contain potential in expression, or is it mere complexity - lacking in accuracy? Do more words offer a more perfected shaping in expression, and do fewer words equal a form of comfortable mirror-like ambiguity? Do writing rules break potential, or bring it into shape? Is it about the translation and the transfer?


Is technical language a marching and trained army in a phalanx of aimed and directed intent; is it a coordinated reduction into a box? This is a requirement for handling ideas and the transfer of information. But not always.

Is a novel an open expression of the universe's potential?

What lies in between?

A human?

Give a man a fish and he can feed his family. Once.

Teach a man to fish and he can feed a family forever thereafter. Or even....feed a world. Or help a world feed itself.

What lies in the confines of the internal interpretation and taking on of prose? Control (the box) ...or...infinity?

Oddly enough, this can take us to the meaning of 3d linear unidirectional time-space, and..Karl Popper (https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/popper/). To paraphrase Popper, to being an overlay of his musing and intents on science...over onto this subject of prose...the more refined and defined a point or subject in expression in it's communication and associated literature, the more likely it is to be disprovable, or contain potentials in attacking it. The edifice in definition provides it's own mark in time, of a coming decay.

In some thinking we find a universal self, that is in a far more perfected communication with other and in self. It being the astral, the spiritual. Etc.

We gain insight into it, it's stories and considerations cross into our awareness and such data says these things about communication within those given realms. Does such a level of communication and sharing eventually cause reduction into a ..nothing?

It is possible to have life define itself as 'differential'. That life is information, and information is differential in base character and nature. The idea that intelligence is built of these things. That the universe is alive.

Does this mean that our given granulated existences, here, in this place... are necessary, for life itself (across multiverses)...to exist?

With such in mind, we return to the potential meanings..in and of -prose.

I am constantly off topic, almost unerringly so. But I do like to try to teach the man to fish.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?98164-Not-so-fast-a-guide-to-better-posting&p=1161804&viewfull=1#post1161804

[Jayke]

metaphysics, a branch of philosophy which is based on rational thinking, but it has no support in empirical facts

Some major topics which belong to the field of metaphysics:

questions about space and time
the relation between the mental and the physical
free will
ethics
aesthetics


With the exception of maybe free will, the other items on the list are measurable with empirical facts, so they’d just be classed under ‘physics’ rather than metaphysics.

Space is measurable i.e. volume.
Time i.e. Versor algebra (music)
Relation between mental and physical i.e. neuroscience.
Ethics i.e. character analysis, a subset of neuroscience.
Aesthetics i.e. geometry and proportion (classical art).

You can discuss these things philosophically of course but they all have a basic set of physically measurable principles behind them. I’d find it curiously unscientific to suggest otherwise.

==========

Anyway, to add to my previous posts in this thread, James DeMeo has a couple more presentations available from the 2020 ‘Energy, Science and Technology‘ conference, which were released earlier today.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~


https://emediapress.com/shop/cosmic-ether-exists/





Cosmic Ether Exists: Correcting A Major Error In Modern Science (Part 1) covers a wide-range of very important scientific facts and should be required study for anyone majoring in any branch of the natural sciences.

9KlgHcDG-2o
In the last 20 years of dedicated research and experiments in the energy sciences, there is one reference that I have given out probably more than all others combined and that is a link to a website on Dr. James DeMeo’s Orgone Lab’s page with references to Dayton Miller. It’s that important!

It is often claimed that the famed Michelson-Morley experiment with an interferometer proved that the ether doesn’t exist, but nothing could be further from the truth and Dayton Miller’s are some of the most pronounced and important, especially for their time.

If you don’t know what an interferometer is, it is a device that splits a beam of light into two paths. As the entire assembly is rotated, the idea is that if the beams come to meet at the destination at the same time, there is no ether. If there is a time difference when the two beams meet, then this shows that there is something speeding up or slowing down one of the light paths and this suggests that there is an ether in or of space.

Not only have positive results been revealed a century ago, dozens of other scientists all the way into recent times have verified it as well, which is the subject of Dr. DeMeo’s new, upcoming book The Dynamic Ether of Cosmic Space.
https://i1.wp.com/emediapress.com/jamesdemeo/orgone/images/demeobook.png?w=980&ssl=1
Why is this important and why should you care about whether or not the ether exists? For one thing, the very foundation of conventional physics regarding space and time completely fall apart, which means we need another perspective. But it also means that there is possibly a potential energy source that can be tapped right out of thin air and this could possibly lead the way to clean, sustainable and unlimited energy production.

For years, the establishment has clung to and pushed the Einsteinian world-view, which is a variation of relativity without the ether. However, with deeper analysis, the effects of relativity are only made possible because of the very ether that Einstein denied. Einstein’s paradigm was put on shaky ground primarily by the work of Dayton Miller and he even admitted it multiple times.


“I believe that I have really found the relationship between gravitation and electricity, assuming that the Miller experiments are based on a fundamental error. Otherwise, the whole relativity theory collapses like a house of cards.“
— Albert Einstein, in a letter to Robert Millikan, June 1921 (in Clark 1971, p.328)
As you can guess, the importance of Dr. DeMeo’s presentation cannot be stressed enough because not only was Miller’s experiment NOT based on a fundamental error, indisputably, many scientists since him have also arrived experimentally at the same conclusions and these verifications continue to this day. In other words, Einstein’s theory of relativity collapsed like a house of cards many years ago and the evidence is both insurmountable and irrefutable. You will see other admissions by Einstein in this presentation that further reinforces his lack of confidence in his ether-less model of time and space – and those admissions are literally in his own words.

Besides the interferometer and other experiments that show the existence of the ether, you will learn how the Sun, Earth and the rest of our Solar System moves through the Universe and it is quite different than how this is commonly portrayed. This is very important to understand because it influences how how the Earth interacts with the ether that it is moving through. It is not a symmetrical spiral moving through space as some popular online videos and memes would have you believe, there is an eccentricity to it not only in its motion but in its velocity!

If you only get the above concepts out of this presentation, it is still worth its weight in gold. However, there are a lot more scientifically, verified facts contained in the 90 minute video and by the time you’re done watching it the first time, you’ll never see Einstein’s claimed “curved space” model in the same light again. In fact, you’ll never look at anything in the Universe the same way again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[onawah]

I wouldn't object to that, though again, my intention was to focus as much on "fake science" used to create profit and the unethical censorship that results, as well as science directly related to Covid and the whole conspiracy that the Plandemic is part of.
If the creators of the more pure, theosophical discussion of science would like to have their posts moved to another thread, I wouldn't object to that either.


A more appropriate title may be something like


"Alternative Science regarding covid-19"

[silvanelf]

I wouldn't object to that, though again, my intention was to focus as much on "fake science" used to create profit and the unethical censorship that results, as well as science directly related to Covid and the whole conspiracy that the Plandemic is part of.
If the creators of the more pure, theosophical discussion of science would like to have their posts moved to another thread, I wouldn't object to that either.


A more appropriate title may be something like


"Alternative Science regarding covid-19"

My proposal was just an idea. The reference to covid-19 may be too specific, because others may want to debate the "fake science" used to create profit in other contexts as well. For example:

GMO (Genetically modified organisms)
vaccines
the "Cancer Industry"
...


https://cancercaremalaysia.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/6-researchers-are-like-pros.jpg

[onawah]

Agreed, as I consider vaccines to be part of the Covid issue, because it's quite obvious that part of the lockstep of the lockdown is to vaccinate as many people as possible with an untested, unsafe vaccine which will further destroy public health and also further the NWO depopulation agenda.
But there's more to it than Covid--also about the growing censorship including censorship on Avalon and how science is subverted for the sake of profits and to cover up actual crimes.


A more appropriate title may be something like


"Alternative Science regarding covid-19"

[greybeard]

Fear degrades the immune system and creates "fight or flight" this bypasses the front cortex so rational thought is well nigh impossible.
The immune system has protected the human race since time begins it is an expert at tackling new disease -- all diseases.
The tests pick up on the debris left after the immune system has successfully dealt with the virus.
This gives a positive result to fragments of the disease which are not capable of doing anything.
The test was never designed for diagnosis the inventor was clear on this.

The cabal knows all this and push fear, tests and time being get the flu vaccine till the covid vaccine is ready.

Even if there is nothing but financial gain in the vaccine manufacturers agenda, it is a very dangerous time for the future of the human race.
Chris

[onawah]

And heaven help the poor children! Such traumas they are facing now.

it is a very dangerous time for the future of the human race.
Chris

[onawah]

EcoHealth Alliance Gets Big Bucks for Risky Virus Research
Analysis by Alexis Baden-Mayer
September 17, 2020
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/09/17/gain-of-function-research.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1ReadMore&cid=20200917Z1&mid=DM654198&rid=966607074

(Good example of bad science )

"STORY AT-A-GLANCE
Gain-of-function research to alter coronaviruses for the infection of humans goes back to 1999 or earlier, years before the first novel coronavirus outbreak
Peter Daszak, President of EcoHealth Alliance, is a top scientific collaborator, grant writer and spokesperson for virus hunters and gain-of-function/dual-use researchers, in labs both military and civilian
On behalf of the U.S. government, often the military, Daszak scours the globe for animal pathogens and brings them back to the lab to be catalogued, investigated and manipulated
To learn that the closest known relative to SARS-CoV-2 has been in the care of the gain-of-function researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) for seven years does nothing to allay suspicions that the virus infected humans only after being tinkered with in a lab
The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases announced a five-year, $82-million investment in a new global network of Centers for Research in Emerging Infectious Diseases, including gain-of-function experiments to “determine what genetic or other changes make [animal] pathogens capable of infecting humans”
Peter Daszak, President of EcoHealth Alliance, is a top scientific collaborator, grant writer and spokesperson for virus hunters and gain-of-function/dual-use researchers, in labs both military and civilian.

Daszak works with dozens of high-containment laboratories around the world that collect pathogens and use genetic engineering and synthetic biology to make them more infectious, contagious, lethal or drug-resistant. These include labs controlled by the U.S. Department of Defense, in countries in the former Soviet Union, the Middle East, South East Asia and Africa.

Many of these labs are staffed by former biological weapons scientists. (See Arms Watch's reports.1) Before the Biological Weapons Convention was ratified, this research was called what it is: biological weapons research. Now, it's euphemistically called gain-of-function or dual-use research.

Gain-of-function research to alter coronaviruses for the infection of humans2 goes back to 1999 or earlier,3 years before the first novel coronavirus outbreak. On behalf of the U.S. government, often the military, Daszak scours the globe for animal pathogens and brings them back to the lab to be catalogued, investigated and manipulated.

Daszak and others justify their research this way: If/When an outbreak of a new virus occurs, they can compare it to the ones in their labs, and maybe glean how the novel virus emerged. A recent Wired magazine article4 quoting Daszak described how a virus collected in 2012 was found to be a 96% match to SARS-CoV-2 in 2020:

"The search for the source of SARS – which killed more than 770 people two decades ago – has given us a headstart for the current hunt.

Wearing hazmat suits and equipped with mist nets, a team from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, together with the ecologist and president of EcoHealth Alliance Peter Daszak, ventured into limestone caves to collect faeces and blood samples from thousands of roosting bats before testing them for novel coronaviruses in the lab.

'At the time, we were looking for SARS-related viruses, and this one was 20 percent different,' says Daszak. 'We thought it's interesting, but not high-risk. So we didn't do anything about it and put it in the freezer.'

The group has found around 500 bat-borne viruses in China over the last 16 years, but only flagged those that most resembled SARS to the authorities – a lack of funding meant they couldn't further investigate the virus strain now known to be 96 percent genetically similar to the virus that causes Covid-19."

Interesting though that story is, it fails to explain how SARS-CoV-2 evolved. Some scientists say it would take 50 years5 for RaTG13 to turn into SARS-CoV-2. Others propose theories6 on how the virus might have evolved so quickly, yet still suspect that it escaped from the Wuhan lab.

Certainly, to learn that the closest known relative to SARS-CoV-2 has been in the care of the gain-of-function researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) for seven years does nothing to allay suspicions that the virus infected humans only after being tinkered with in a lab.7

Still, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases is going all-in on virus hunting. The institute just announced a five-year, $82-million8 investment in a new global network of Centers for Research in Emerging Infectious Diseases, including gain-of-function experiments to "determine what genetic or other changes make [animal] pathogens capable of infecting humans."

Daszak's EcoHealth Alliance will receive $7.5 million9 from this grant. This is on top of $100.9 million10 that EcoHealth Alliance has received in government grants and contracts since 2003. (What was that Daszak said about how "a lack of funding meant they couldn't further investigate the virus strain now known to be 96-percent genetically similar to the virus that causes Covid-19"11)?

Critics12 of virus hunting say scientists like Daszak could make a greater contribution to human health by going after the viruses that commonly infect humans, not the ones that never have. According to a 2018 Smithsonian Magazine report:13

"Not everyone thinks that discovering viruses and their hotspots is the best way to prevent pandemics. Dr. Robert B. Tesh, a virologist at the University of Texas Medical Branch, says we don't understand enough about zoonotic viruses to create predictive models. 'A lot of the stuff they produce is hype. … It's more PR than science.'"

Daszak's research might be more hype14 and public relations than science, but the Department of Homeland Security's National Biosurveillance Integration Center (NBIC) has chosen to rely on it. NBIC gave Daszak's EcoHealth Alliance a $2.2-million15 contract (2016-2019) to create a "Ground Truth Network"16 of "subject matter experts" who could provide "contextual information pertaining to biological events."

The context17 Daszak invariably provides is a compelling one. Destruction of forests and other encroachments on wildlife habitats, especially the hunting of wild animals and the sale of live animals in wet markets, is forcing humans and animals into uncomfortable proximity. This is bad for vulnerable and endangered species, as well as for humans who are at increasing risk for contracting novel zoonotic diseases.

Who isn't shocked and appalled to learn that people eat bats, or that marvelously strange and adorable animals you've never heard of ― pangolins, civet cats ― have had their habitats destroyed and are now being sold for meat at live animal markets? Daszak's framing of the issue ― what has come to be known as the One Health approach ― has been heartily embraced by the U.S. military.

But what if the stories being spun by Daszak and his fellow government-supported subject matter experts aren't supported by the evidence? Let's look at EcoHealth Alliance's story about Ebola and bushmeat.

Click here to read more
False Narrative, Tragic Outcomes
From 2011 to 2014, Ecohealth Alliance had a $164,480 purchase order contract from the Centers for Disease Control in Pittsburgh for "Bushmeat." No more information than that is available on that contract (HHSD2002011M41641P18), but the money likely funded a paper Daszak and his colleagues published in 2012.

The 2012 paper,19 "Zoonotic Viruses Associated with Illegally Imported Wildlife Products," was used in August 2014, at the height of the West African Ebola pandemic, as the basis for a Newsweek article titled, "Smuggled Bushmeat Is Ebola's Back Door to America."20

The article, which quoted an EcoHealth Alliance spokesperson, spread a false (not to mention racist and xenophobic) narrative, one that subsequently would be thoroughly debunked,21 that bushmeat smuggled to the U.S. from Africa could transmit Ebola to Americans.

In January 2015, a meeting of the UK Bushmeat Working Group convened. The group countered Daszak's misinformation with the facts, in an article titled, "Ebola and Bushmeat: Myth and Reality."22 The article stated:

"As the Ebola virus can remain viable in untreated carcasses for up to 3-4 days, there is a risk of transporting it to bushmeat markets (although there is no evidence of this to date).

However, the risk of transmitting Ebola in bushmeat overseas to Europe or the USA is extremely low, given the total travel time and the fact that these carcasses are usually smoked (which probably inactivates the virus). The risk of spread to new areas lies with the movement of infected people, not infected meat."

Tragically, the misinformation about bushmeat as a primary cause of Ebola transmission had already been communicated to West Africans in the midst of the crisis, through international health organizations, including Daszak's funder,23 the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Daszak's misinformation campaign overshadowed the truth — that the only way Ebola was actually being transmitted during the pandemic was via contact with the bodily fluids of people sick with Ebola, or with their corpses.

Perpetuating Mythical Theories
The SARS pandemic is another instance where Daszak's theories didn't pan out. It is commonly accepted that the SARS pandemic began in 2002,24 when humans caught a bat virus from civet cats at a wet market in Guangdong, China. But Daszak and his collaborators admit they have no evidence to explain how the virus leapt from bats to civets to humans.

SARS-CoV was found in civets at the Guangdong wet market, but civets aren't the natural reservoir of this virus. Bats are. Only the civets at the market — and no farm-raised or wild civets — carried the virus. None of the animal traders handling the civets at the market had SARS.

When Daszak and his collaborators at the WIV25 searched the cave in Yunnan for strains of coronavirus similar to human versions, no single bat actually had SARS. Genetic pieces of the various strains would have to be recombined to make up the human version. Adding to the confusion, Yunnan is about 1,000 kilometers from Guangdong.

So, how did viruses from bats in Yunnan combine to become deadly to humans, and then travel to civets and people in Guangdong, without causing any illnesses along the way during this 1,000 kilometer trip? No one knows. Just like no one knows how SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, leapt from bats to pangolins to humans.

(The most recent study, "Broad host range of SARS-CoV-2 predicted by comparative and structural analysis of ACE2 in vertebrates"26 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences,27 showed that the SARS-CoV-2, which infects human cells through binding of the viral Spike protein to ACE2, has a "very high" binding affinity to ACE2 in "Old World" monkeys apes, and humans.

But in bats, the binding affinity is "low" and in pangolins it is "very low." The authors also noted that "neither experimental infection nor in vitro infection with SARS-CoV-2 has been reported for pangolins.")

Daszak continues to tell his bat-origin story,28 but the science doesn't back it up. That ― along with the fact that dozens of labs conduct "gain-of-function"29 research on bat coronaviruses and there are troubling safety issues30 at these labs ― is why the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is investigating the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab.

Inquiring Minds at the NIH Want to Know
On July 8, the NIH sent a letter31 to Daszak asking EcoHealth Alliance to arrange for an inspection of the WIV by an outside team that would examine the facility's lab and records "with specific attention to addressing the question of whether WIV staff had SARS-CoV-2 in their possession prior to December 2019."

The WIV and the Wuhan University School of Public Health are listed as subcontractors for EcoHealth Alliance under a $3.7-million NIH grant32 titled, "Understanding the Risk of Bat Coronavirus Emergence."

The two institutions also worked as collaborators under another $2.6-million grant,33 "Risk of Viral Emergence from Bats," and under EcoHealth Alliance's largest single source of funding, a $44.2 million sub-grant34 from the University of California at Davis for the PREDICT project (2015-2020).

It's the $44.2-million PREDICT grant that EcoHealth Alliance used to fund35 the gain-of-function experiment by WIV scientist Zhengli Shi and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill's Ralph Baric.36

Shi and Baric used genetic engineering and synthetic biology to create a "new bat SARS-like virus ... that can jump directly from its bat hosts to humans." Daszak described the work being done by Shi and Baric in a 2019 interview:37

"You can manipulate them [coronaviruses] in the lab pretty easily. Spike protein drives a lot of what happens with the coronavirus, zoonotic risk. So, you can get the sequence, you can build the protein, and we work with Ralph Baric at UNC to do this. Insert it into a backbone of another virus, and do some work in the lab."

The work, "A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence,"38 published in Nature in 2015 during the NIH's moratorium39 on gain-of-function research, was grandfathered in because it was initiated before the moratorium (officially called the U.S. Government Deliberative Process Research Funding Pause on Selected Gain-of-Function Research Involving Influenza, MERS and SARS Viruses), and because the request by Shi and Baric to continue their research during the moratorium was approved by the NIH.

As a condition of publication, Nature, like most scientific journals, requires40 authors to submit new DNA and RNA sequences to GenBank, the U.S. National Center for Biotechnology Information Database. Yet the new SARS-like virus Shi and Baric created wasn't deposited41 in GenBank until May 2020.

Why Stop With Wuhan?
NIH is right to require that the WIV's lab and records be opened to outside inspectors. But why is the government focusing on just one of EcoHealth Alliance's projects, when the organization has received $100.9 million42 in grants, primarily from the Department of Defense, to sample, store and study bat coronaviruses at labs around the world?

Coronaviruses, both those that have been collected from animals and those that have been created through genetic engineering and synthetic biology, at all of these labs should be compared with SARS-CoV-2.

Daszak's collaborators working under contracts with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) aren't allowed to conduct gain-of-function research unless specifically approved to do so by the Potential Pandemic Pathogen Care and Oversight (P3CO) committee. This committee was set up as a condition for lifting43 the 2014-2017 moratorium on gain-of-function research.

The P3CO committee operates in secret. Not even a membership list has been released. The only information provided to the public is that Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response Robert Kadlec44 appointed HHS Senior Science Advisor Christian Hassell45 as its chair.

It's time to open the records of the PC3O committee's deliberations and decisions to examine all gain-of-function research on coronaviruses. And every lab manipulating these viruses should have their coronaviruses compared to SARS-CoV-2.

The Pentagon's Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) for its Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (now called the Biological Threat Reduction Program) isn't supposed to fund gain-of-function (what they call "dual-use"46) research at all.

It's time to determine whether this prohibition on "dual-use" funding has been adhered to, especially in light of the investments the Pentagon is making across the globe in the construction of new laboratories for the "consolidation and securing of pathogens." DTRA's mission was to dismantle the biological weapons programs of hostile or destabilized countries.

Instead it is being used to develop new biological weapons programs in dozens of countries around the world.

Even if these programs are purely defensive, they proliferate, around the globe, pathogens with pandemic potential, even though it's been difficult to keep these dangerous germs under control here in the U.S. (See "The Global Proliferation of High-Containment Biological Laboratories: Understanding the Phenomenon and Its Implications,"47 and the Government Accountability Office's reports, "Biological Select Agents and Toxins: Actions Needed to Improve Management of DOD's Biosafety and Biosecurity Program,"48 and "High-containment Laboratories: Comprehensive and Up-to-Date Policies and Stronger Oversight Mechanisms Needed to Improve Safety"49).

EcoHealth's Tentacles Reach Far and Wide
EcoHealth Alliance is very much involved in the Pentagon's proliferation of high-containment biological laboratories. It is conducting DTRA-funded work in the following countries, which are all participants in the Pentagon's Biological Threat Reduction Program.50

•Tanzania — In Tanzania, a country that is considered only "partly free,"51 which has a history of foreign medical experimentation52 and which didn't ratify the Biological Weapons Convention53 until 2019, EcoHealth Alliance has a $5-million Pentagon contract,54 "Crimean-Congo Hemorrhagic Fever: Reducing an Emerging Health Threat in Tanzania."

Crimean-Congo Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF)55 is a tick-borne disease, originally only infecting animals, that was discovered by Ottis and Calista Causey while working for the Rockefeller Foundation in Nigeria. There was only ever one case56 of CCHF in Tanzania, and that was in 1986.

Gain-of-function research57 on CCHF is being conducted at the U.S. Department of Agriculture's National Bio and Agro-Defense Facility (NBAF) to determine the "mechanisms of CCHF transmission including development of CCHF tick and animal infection methods and CCHF tick-animal transmission models." (The National Bio and Agro Defense Facility will take over the mission of the Plum Island Animal Disease Center and become the lead facility for Foreign Animal Disease research.)

The National Bio and Agro Defense Facility Biosafety Level 4 (BSL4) Zoonotic and Emerging Infectious Disease team's CCHF Virus Surveillance Project58 is investigating "the interface between tick vectors, livestock and pastoralist and resource-poor farming communities in Tanzania" as well as the disease's "molecular pathogenesis."

Tanzania is the origin of chikungunya,59 a mosquito-borne virus that the U.S. has long cultivated60 as a potential biological weapon. according to a patent61 held by the University of Texas for a "chimeric" chikungunya virus created through genetic engineering and synthetic biology:

"The 39 documented laboratory infections reported by HHS in 1981 strongly suggest that Chikungunya virus is infectious via aerosol route. Chikungunya virus was being weaponized by the U.S. Army army when the offensive program was terminated."

Tanzania is one62 of the countries where bat coronaviruses were collected for the PREDICT63 project. Tanzania has one Biosafety Level 3 (BSL3) laboratory, the privately owned Ifakara Health Institute,64 which is partnering with PREDICT65 to launch "concurrent surveillance of wildlife and people in at-risk areas for viral spillover and spread."

•South Africa — In South Africa, which had a notorious apartheid-era biological weapons program,66 EcoHealth Alliance has a $5-million Pentagon contract67 (2019-2024), "Reducing the Threat of Rift Valley Fever Through Ecology, Epidemiology and Socio-economics." This is on top of a $4.9-million grant68 (2014-2019), "Understanding Rift Valley Fever in the Republic of South Africa."

The last human outbreak69 of Rift Valley Fever in South Africa occurred in 2010, when the government reported 237 confirmed cases, including 26 deaths from nine provinces. But there were also a few cases70 in 2018 among farmworkers who slaughtered infected animals during an outbreak in livestock. The fever can spread from animals to humans if they come into contact with the blood and other body fluids of an infected animal.

The U.S. military has conducted offensive biological weapons research71 on Rift Valley Fever. South Africa's biological weapons program72 included the weaponization of Rift Valley Fever virus obtained from the U.S. government.

Known as Project Coast, South Africa's biological weapons program murdered anti-apartheid activists with narcotics and poisons, and attempted a genocide of the black majority by spreading AIDS73 and by developing pathogens and vaccines74 that would selectively attack black people with illness, death and infertility.

Dr. Wouter Basson,75 the project's top scientist, told Pretoria High Court in South Africa that the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency threatened him with death, presumably to prevent him from revealing the deep connections between Project Coast and the U.S., which had forced President F. W. de Klerk to shut down the project and destroy its records.

Basson named the U.S. Centers for Disease Control as his source of eight shipments76 of Ebola, Marburg and Rift Valley viruses, but claimed that he had obtained the viruses by posing as a medical researcher and hiding his affiliation with the South African Defense Forces.

Surveys of bats in South Africa found no evidence77 of bats being natural carriers of Rift Valley Fever virus, but experiments have shown that bats can be infected78 with it in a laboratory setting.

A bat coronavirus collected79 in South Africa in 2011 was thought to be the closest known relative of the MERS-CoV virus that emerged in Saudi Arabia in 2012, until a 100-percent match for MERS-CoV was detected by Daszak and his colleagues in viral RNA fragments from an Egyptian tomb bat80 found near the home of one of the first MERS victims in Saudi Arabia.

•Liberia — In Liberia, which didn't ratify the Biological Weapons Convention until 2016,81 EcoHealth Alliance has a $4.91-million82 Pentagon contract,83 "Reducing the Threat from High-risk Pathogens Causing Febrile Illness in Liberia." Febrile illnesses include Ebola, which has been the subject of some of the most controversial dual-use research.84

While the U.S. has a sordid history of biological weapons experimentation on its own people — with conscientious objectors,85 military "volunteers,"86 and the general public87 as frequent subjects — there were some biological weapons tests88 the Department of Defense considered too unethical to perform within the continental U.S. Those tests were conducted in other countries, including Liberia.89

Likewise, mirroring medical experimentation90 on African Americans, there is a history of colonial medical experimentation in Liberia going back to 1926 when the Firestone91 tire company financed surveys of local diseases they feared could curtail the profitability of their rubber plantations.

More recently, a failed Pentagon-funded Ebola drug trial92 caused many Liberians to suspect that the subsequent Ebola outbreak was the fault of Tekmira, the pharmaceutical company that created TKM-100802. Doubt surrounded the official story, promoted93 by Daszak, that the West African Ebola outbreak happened because bats flew in with the Ebola Zaire virus from 2,500 miles away.

In January 2014, the Phase I trial94 for TKM-100802 was launched, but put on clinical hold by the U.S. Food & Drug Administration due to high cytokine release in participants. In a dose-escalation, healthy volunteer study, one (of two) participants dosed at the highest level of 0·5 mg/kg experienced cytokine release syndrome.95

Cytokine release syndrome96 is a pro-inflammatory reaction that occurs when activated lymphocytes and/or myeloid cells release soluble immune mediators following administration of certain therapeutic agents, especially monoclonal antibodies. Onset can be rapid (within hours of administration) and can be life-threatening.

Ultimately, TKM-100802 proved useless97 for Ebola patients, but the Pentagon's $140-million98 investment, and the boost99 Tekmira's stock experienced on speculation that Ebola would soon spawn the next $1-billion drug,100 made many investors rich.

Suspicions were raised because the TKM-100802 Phase I trial on healthy volunteers began in January 2014, before101 the first cases of the Ebola outbreak in March 2014.

Later, the World Health Organization's Pierre Formenty traced the first case102 back to late December 2013, in Meliandou, Guinea. There, 50 meters from the home of patient zero, another researcher, Fabian Leendertz,103 found DNA fragments that matched the Angolan free-tailed bat, a species known to survive experimental infections with Ebola.

Then, Daszak's EcoHealth team found viral RNA fragments104 of Ebola Zaire in a greater long-fingered bat, captured in 2016 in Liberia's Sanniquellie-Mahn District, which borders Guinea. There was a 1982 article105 in Annals of Virology in which a trio of Germans reported finding Ebola antibodies in 26 of 433 Liberians (6%). Bats aren't the only place to look for Ebola.

There's a BSL-4 lab that was handling Zaire Ebola before the pandemic in Kenema, Sierra Leone. This is where international law attorney Francis Boyle,106 a drafter of the U.S. Biological Weapons and Anti-Terrorism Act passed into law in 1981, believes the pandemic originated.

There's also Liberia's Monkey Island. As the Washington Post reported,107 that's where 66 chimpanzees have been since 2004, when they were abandoned by the American scientists at the Liberian labs of the New York Blood Center. From 1974 to 2004, the New York Blood Center captured wild chimps, engaged them in medical experimentation and then released them back into the jungle in a project known as Vilab II108 (Virology Lab II), which maintained a colony of 200 chimps.

Vilab II was built from the remnants of the Liberian Institute of Tropical Medicine. Built by Firestone in 1946, the Liberian Institute of Tropical Medicine had once employed 60 scientists, but by 1974, medical doctor Earl Reber109 was there alone with eight chimps. The roots of the Liberian Institute of Tropical Medicine go back to the research begun in 1926 by Harvard Department of Tropical Medicine chief Richard Pearson Strong.

Virus hunters like Daszak should have a keen interest in a population of chimpanzees that, for nearly 100 years, has been caught, injected with viruses and then released back into the wild, especially considering the work of the researchers who handled the chimps.

The New York Blood Center is at the center of a theory110 on the origin of HIV/AIDS, that it came from a contaminated Hepatitis B vaccine the center distributed to gay men from 1978-1981. The New York Blood Center also tested111 its vaccine on Liberians.

Richard Pearson Strong112 is infamous for killing 13 men when he infected a group of 24 inmates of Manila's Bilibid Prison with plague through a contaminated cholera vaccine. That was prior to his work113 in Liberia, which is only now being explored, and also involved experiments with humans as well as chimpanzees.

•Georgia — EcoHealth Alliance has a $6.5-million Pentagon grant114 for "Understanding the Risk of Bat-borne Zoonotic Disease Emergence In Western Asia" (2017-2022).

Arms Watch115 reports that this grant involves genetic studies on coronaviruses in 5,000 bats collected in Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Turkey and Jordan. The studies were conducted at the Lugar Center, a $161-million Pentagon-funded biolaboratory in Georgia's capital, Tbilisi. Russia claims116 the Georgia lab is the site of a U.S. biological weapons program.

According to USASpending.gov,117 EcoHealth Alliance has received $2.88 million in grants for work in Georgia. The Lugar Center is one of the labs that hosts EcoHealth Alliance's Western Asia Bat Research Network.118

•Malaysia — In Malaysia, which is only now in the process of creating a legislative framework119 for enforcing the Biological Weapons Convention, EcoHealth Alliance had a $1.6-million Pentagon grant120 (2017-2019) for "Serological Biosurveillance for Spillover of Henipaviruses and Filoviruses at Agricultural and Hunting Human Animal Interfaces in Peninsular Malaysia."

There are no known cases of filovirus infections in humans in Malaysia. But Malaysia is the origin of the Nipah virus,121 first recognized in 1999, during an outbreak among farmers and farmworkers in factory farms and slaughterhouses producing pork.

The virus spread to Singapore. In all, there were 265 cases of acute encephalitis with 105 deaths, and the billion-dollar pig-farming industry nearly collapsed. No new outbreaks have been reported in Malaysia since 1999.

Nipah virus, a zoonotic pathogen for which no treatments exist, is the inspiration for the film "Contagion."122 The virus can only be experimented on in BSL-4 laboratories. The National Bio and Agro-Defence Facility in Kansas will be the first biocontainment facility123 in the U.S. where research on Nipah and Ebola (a filovirus) can be conducted on livestock.

In 2019, Nipah Malaysia was among the deadly virus strains shipped124 from Canada's National Microbiology Lab to the WIV. Henipaviruses,125 in the paramyxovirus family, were the first emerging diseases linked to bats.

In June 2012, in the same Chinese cave126 (actually an old copper mine where workers doing cleanup had become sick and died) in which Daszak's WIV colleagues found SARS-CoV-2's most closely related coronavirus, another frequent collaborator of Daszak's, Zhiqiang Wu of the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, found a new henipavirus-like pathogen in a rat, naming it the "Mojiang paramyxovirus,"127 after the county in Yunnan province where it was found.

Malaysia was the planned site of a BSL-4 laboratory run by the pharmaceutical company Emergent Biosolutions128 for the production of a halal version of the BioThrax vaccine. But that project failed.129

In addition to the Pentagon funding, Dazsak obtained $1.7 million in grants130 (2002-2005) from NIH's Fogarty International Center for "Anthropogenic Change & Emerging Zoonotic Paramyxoviruses." In 2012-2014, Daszak had a $569,700 grant from the National Fish and Wildlife Service for "Development of a Great Ape Health Unit in Sabah, Malaysia."

Daszak has a new National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases grant,131 "Understanding Risk of Zoonotic Virus Emergence in EID Hotspots of Southeast Asia," for $1.5 million (2020). The grant is for an "Emerging Infectious Diseases - South East Asia Research Collaboration Hub (EID-SEARCH)" that "brings leaders in emerging disease research from the U.S., Thailand, Singapore and the three major Malaysian administrative regions together to build an early warning system to safeguard against pandemic disease threats. This team will identify novel viruses from Southeast Asian wildlife [and] characterize their capacity to infect and cause illness in people …"

Other Pentagon Contracts

EcoHealth Alliance had a $1-million Pentagon contract132 (2017-2019) for an Inbound Bio-event Information System (IBIS), "a web-based application and early warning system for global infectious disease bio-events that threaten the U.S. via international transportation networks."

EcoHealth Alliance also had another $4.5-million Pentagon contract (HDTRA115C0041133) for 2015-2017. No other information is available on this contract other than that it is for "Applied Research/Exploratory Development" in the "Physical, Engineering, and Life Sciences (except Biotechnology)."

•Department of Homeland Security Contracts — EcoHealth Alliance has a $566,300 contract (2019-2021) with the Department of Homeland Security for the Rapid Evaluation of Pathogens to Prevent Epidemics in Livestock (REPEL) project134 "to apply biological-based, pathogen agnostic medical countermeasure vaccine and diagnostic platforms to develop foreign animal and emerging zoonotic livestock disease vaccines."

•Department of Health and Human Services Funding — Daszak obtained a $300,000-grant135 in 2012 from NIH's Fogarty International Center for research on "Comparative Spillover Dynamics of Avian Influenza In Endemic Countries." While most of the research listed in the "results" section of the grant are flu-related, it also includes the WIV's paper,136 "Isolation and Characterization of a Bat SARS-like Coronavirus that Uses the ACE2 Receptor."137

Daszak was given $3.7 million in grants138 (2002-2012) from NIH's Fogarty International Center for "The Ecology, Emergence And Pandemic Potential of Nipah Virus in Bangladesh."

The grants Daszak used to support the work of the WIV were a $3.7-million grant139 (2014-2020) "Understanding the Risk of Bat Coronavirus Emergence," and a $2.6-million grant140 (2008-2012) "Risk of Viral Emergence From Bats," each from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

•U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) Funding

In Thailand, EcoHealth Alliance has a $647,200-grant141 for "One Health Workforce - Next Generation" (2019-2020).

Alexis Baden-Mayer is political director for the Organic Consumers Association (OCA). www.organicconsumers.org To keep up with OCA's news and alerts, sign up here: https://advocacy.organicconsumers.org/page/8003/subscribe/1
"
8 pages (!!) of references here: https://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/References/gain-of-function-research-ref.pdf

[greybeard]

I had the greatest respect for Professors -- now I suspect that all they profess is not true.
Chris

[onawah]

Very interesting astrological report from Ang Stoic this week which pertains to some issues that have been central to this discussion.
I've posted the whole report here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91348-Ang-Stoic-Astrological-Reports&p=1378561#post1378561

But have quoted a bit from it as follows:

"We are feeling enormous pressure to remove obstacles and distractions from our lives, focus our attention on more efficient methods and means by which to improve our personal path. However, we are also challenged by the evolutionary needs and soul desires of the collective as a square for this lunation to the Lunar Nodes reveals a severe misalignment between our individual ego and common humanity's quest for truth. Is truth something that is objectively definable or, in the post-modernist sense, subject to each individual's perceived interpretation? This question rattles us as a sentient species. The imbalance created here at this point in history merely tests how much our individual aims, as indicated by the Virgo Supermoon, are currently out-of-sync with what the universe is wanting from us. This creates an enormous disconnection and divisiveness between us."

( And here is a little addendum to this past week's astro report from Ang, which is retrospect, is spot-on for me, at least...):

https://angstoic.com/2020/09/sun-opposition-neptune/
https://angstoic.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/119059760_3004409042996572_6581310822406482109_n.jpg

"Be mindful that the world is subtly shifting into turbocharged hypercriticism.

While tangible in the short run, heightened discrimination, belligerent pedantry, threatening-by-numbers, medical bullying, death-alarmism and all-round do-gooder freakouts contribute to an atmosphere of micro-tyranny and intimidation.

Ultimately, this shuts down creativity, destroys momentum, ceases productivity and, although not visible, causes long term psychological damage. If you’re the sensitive, artistic or ‘spiritual’ kind or just really insecure, be discerning where you plonk yourself."

[onawah]

Title of thread
I posted this: "I noticed that the title to a thread that I started has been changed.
(I thought the thread starter was supposed to be consulted before that happens, but maybe I was wrong.)
The new title is Scientific Materialism vs. Truth (re Covid-19). The last part (re Covid-19) was just tacked on yesterday, I think.
I really didn't intend for the thread to be limited to Scientific Materialism vs. Truth just as it relates to Covid-19.
Could we change it back again to the way it was?
Thanks."
here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111446-About-Forum-Standards.--A-friendly-thread--&p=1378554&viewfull=1#post1378554

(I see it was changed back quickly. Any feedback, suggestions re a better title welcome. )

[Delight]

Natalie (and all),
I think the point of how many (all) of our experiences at the moment are twisted up in the covid plandemic is important and seems to deny all logic (mine anyway). When something so deviously destructive is so neatly packaged, that demands questions and WE HAVE THEM.

How did one "grouping" of ideas based on one approach modeling of a worst case scenario, one POV of the steps to take become gospel?
Why are all differing views being officially squelched by those governmental bodies (including the "scientific bureaucracies and effectivly what are communication public utilities MSM, Google/facebook/twitter ETC.)
What is the motivation of a simulataneous global rescinding of common sense (being that when the worst case is seen to be WRONG, then the emergency is scaled back).
WHO made themselves the boss (including W.H.O) of our personal "health" and When DID this seeming "Conspire piracy" of our basic rights begin?

The Title of the thread works on many levels, if one is asking about the Truth of a situation which has obliterated Prosperity, divided Community, undermined Trust and seems to have landed us in Crazy Town and Country. BUT also, it works because IMO scientific Materialism denotes a clockwork reality which is denied (God is in parenthesis because I cannot say God without knowing how little I know of God) as the organizing principle... an intelligence behind matter means there is (God). This has been orchestrated by a Spirit that IMO hates a Creator larger than oneself. I think "the threat to the system of control" is because there is a Communicative Intelligence (God) we can access as Consciousness (yes, I admit that is my belief based on my experience) and be uncontrollable.

If (God) exists despite ideas about "Who?What?How?Why? When?Where? IS Creator", that Truth cannot really be erased. Best to create an alternate so Science which is open ended becomes Scientism and is made GOD. Scientism created a belief, in OUR MINDS, in it's power and declared Science MUST NOT BE CHALLENGED by us ordinary men and women. That creation of a Science is Religion which is to be worshipped, means inconvenient Truth is Heresy and Heretics are to be shunned. I am paraphrasing many who think this is the case, so I am in a huge company of others.

I already questioned like many why Science and (God) should not be coherent? Intelligent design is OBVIOUS in nature. I know that once upon a time, RELIGION became a BOSS of us and was/is horrifically evilishly controling. Now Scientism becomes that control and gatekeeper. Our personal ability to discern the difference between Truth and the Bureaucratic party line is also OBVIOUSLY anathema to the agenda. I am happy about one thing. The worse it gets, the more people cannot just ignore the horror. I saw this today about intelligent Design.


MindMatters: Opening One's Mind to the Implications of Intelligent Design
Corey Schink, Harrison Koehli, Elan Martin
Sott.net
Thu, 17 Sep 2020 00:00 UTC (https://www.sott.net/article/441526-MindMatters-Opening-Ones-Mind-to-the-Implications-of-Intelligent-Design)
https://www.sott.net/image/s29/583352/large/idimpl1.jpg
One of the most profoundly enlightening and potentially life-changing areas of study one can pursue today is that of intelligent design: the idea that life, in so many of its forms, is so complex - and on so many levels - that it couldn't possibly have come into being without the information injected into it by some form of 'higher intelligence'. While one cannot say with absolute certainty what that 'higher intelligence' may actually be, or whence it comes (or how it 'designs'), the conclusion that human beings - and much of physical reality itself - is no mere series of accidents is now quite clear. Anyone paying attention to the data, science and logic of ID research can plainly see it.

All of this understanding, however, begs for more questions. For instance: If the 'information system' hypothesis of reality is correct, then what does that say about the nature of the mind and its relationship to information? If information is 'non-material' in the sense that we understand physical reality, what does that suggest about the state of reality itself? And does the dogmatic, materialistic, neo-Darwinist worldview effectively block one's mind from assimilating real knowledge of the world and expanding on our understanding of consciousness itself, and of ourselves, as carriers of information? The implications for these lines of inquiry are as staggering as they are endless. And considering how limiting and damaging the 'accidental worldview' - and all of its offshoots are - perhaps it's time that humanity at large now comes to know what's truly at stake.

8hxCpKc8DQg

[greybeard]

Hypnosis is about making an illusion come real, or seem real
This can be used for good or otherwise.
By implication, it enlists the subconscious which can not tell the difference between truth and falsehood --if you dont believe this read the late Dr David Hawkins book "Power vs Force"

So what is happening just now is mass hypnosis.
Do the right thing --wear a mask-- get the test --oh wait a minute we have run out of tests -- this creates demand.
When you are tested you are taking a step to normality. You can go to work.
It will be necessary for you to be tested regularly -- establishing a routine.Join the que with mask on.
Be responsible get vaccinated --its the only way that you can go to --you name it.
Of course you will need the new app -- I mean passport to freedom.
If it shows green then you are safe to mix, of course maintaining the two-meter distance still wearing a mask of course.

Top scientists not named in UK are strongly suggesting a two week total lockdown in October --least inconvenience as the schools have a break then.
What small buisness can survive this stop go. Open close.
80% 0f the population UK employed in small businesses.

Online firm expanding

The moment you turn on local radio in UK your are assaulted with "Get tested, save a life, control the virus" or similar sound bites,
These are adverts paid for by you.

Got the NHS letter get the flu jab now -- the best reason for coming out of the house -- honestly thats what the letter said.

Hypnosis NLP relies on repetition -- what we have now is pure propaganda propelled by fear.
The lie propagated to create fear is that this virus is novel -- its exceedingly dangerous, it has after affects, every cold flue etc can have all of this put on it.
The current virus has similar mortality to seasonal flu.

So the whole economy of the world is trashed --why why why?
Well the saviour is coming --Global reset, Vaccine, One world unelected Government.
AND people will welcome all of this as they are in a trance state manufactured by what I have said here.

The antidote follow the suggestions of David Icke.
Listen to him repeatedly --even if you dont believe all he says.
Dont acquiesce etc.

Hypnosis is a science that is proven to work -- it is very effective.

Chris

[silvanelf]

metaphysics, a branch of philosophy which is based on rational thinking, but it has no support in empirical facts

Some major topics which belong to the field of metaphysics:

questions about space and time
the relation between the mental and the physical
free will
ethics
aesthetics


With the exception of maybe free will, the other items on the list are measurable with empirical facts, so they’d just be classed under ‘physics’ rather than metaphysics.

Space is measurable i.e. volume.
Time i.e. Versor algebra (music)
Relation between mental and physical i.e. neuroscience.
Ethics i.e. character analysis, a subset of neuroscience.
Aesthetics i.e. geometry and proportion (classical art).

You can discuss these things philosophically of course but they all have a basic set of physically measurable principles behind them. I’d find it curiously unscientific to suggest otherwise.

Your reflections on these topics look pretty shallow to me. Here are just two of these topics:


Questions about Space and Time

I used the wording "questions about space and time" for a reason -- here are some remarks taken from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/metaphysics/#SpaTim):


One can ask whether space is (a) a real thing—a substance—a thing that exists independently of its inhabitants, or (b) a mere system of relations among those inhabitants. And one can ask the same question about time.

[...]

There is also the question of temporal passage—the question whether the apparent “movement” of time (or the apparent movement of ourselves and the objects of our experience through or in time) is a real feature of the world or some sort of illusion. In one way of thinking about time, there is a privileged temporal direction marking the difference between the past, present, and future.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/metaphysics/#SpaTim


Ethics



Ethics i.e. character analysis, a subset of neuroscience.

You are using a strange interpretation of the word ethics. Here is the usual meaning of "Ethics", it has nothing to do with "character analysis":


Ethics (or Moral Philosophy) is concerned with questions of how people ought to act, and the search for a definition of right conduct (identified as the one causing the greatest good) and the good life (in the sense of a life worth living or a life that is satisfying or happy).

https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_ethics.html

[Jayke]

Your reflections on these topics look pretty shallow to me. Here are just two of these topics:


Questions about Space and Time

I used the wording "questions about space and time" for a reason -- here are some remarks taken from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/metaphysics/#SpaTim):


One can ask whether space is (a) a real thing—a substance—a thing that exists independently of its inhabitants, or (b) a mere system of relations among those inhabitants. And one can ask the same question about time.

[...]

There is also the question of temporal passage—the question whether the apparent “movement” of time (or the apparent movement of ourselves and the objects of our experience through or in time) is a real feature of the world or some sort of illusion. In one way of thinking about time, there is a privileged temporal direction marking the difference between the past, present, and future.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/metaphysics/#SpaTim


Ethics



Ethics i.e. character analysis, a subset of neuroscience.

You are using a strange interpretation of the word ethics. Here is the usual meaning of "Ethics", it has nothing to do with "character analysis":


Ethics (or Moral Philosophy) is concerned with questions of how people ought to act, and the search for a definition of right conduct (identified as the one causing the greatest good) and the good life (in the sense of a life worth living or a life that is satisfying or happy).

https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_ethics.html

What madness is this??

:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Ummm, hate to burst your bubble SilvanElf, but if you knew anything about the neuroscience of character analysis, you’d see it has everything to do with ‘right conduct’, ‘the good life’, ‘happiness’ etc. Seriously read Wilhelm Reichs books on ‘The Function of the Orgasm (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Function-Orgasm-Condor-Books/dp/0285649701/ref=pd_lpo_14_t_0/262-9938154-0488800?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0285649701&pd_rd_r=befbb9f9-0718-47f4-8c26-653dd10fe6db&pd_rd_w=IPa4C&pd_rd_wg=NgtYj&pf_rd_p=7b8e3b03-1439-4489-abd4-4a138cf4eca6&pf_rd_r=188T8JDFXB7EVTWVPX75&psc=1&refRID=188T8JDFXB7EVTWVPX75)’ and ‘Character Analysis (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Character-Analysis-Wilhelm-Reich/dp/0374509808)’ before advertising your ignorance any further. It’s definitely not I who has a shallow understanding of these concepts, I can assure you that. These things are perfectly empirically measurable. A lack of insight and investigation into a science doesn’t automatically demote it to metaphysics status. That’s as shallow as me saying spaceshuttles fly on witchcraft because I haven’t studied ‘combustible chemistry’. :facepalm:

How about instead of looking in an ‘encyclopaedia of philosophy’, you look in the ‘journals of science’, since this is a discussion about science and not philosophy. Time and Space are perfectly measurable dimensions in scientific circles, even if you can find them discussed from a philosophical perspective.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Metaphysics means 'beyond science' so I wouldn't call it a demotion.

The title, framed as it is, is a negative discussion, since if the truth is the side of opposition then materialism must already be untrue. Cased closed.

So the discussion is about agreeing with the op or not.

And, ethics, is merely the modification of a moral stance to suit a lifestyle or questionable choice. Ethics is the excuse for immoral behavior, whether justified or not. The way the word might be dissected in a scholarly setting is moot.

Both space and time are reference frames, where one proves the other. Time especially, is considered, from a physics standpoint, to be arbitrary. Space has the same difficulty, since Einstein removed the ether. You can't isolate a piece of time or space for study.

Things in the same realm as space and time:
electron, photon, magnetism, strong and weak force, consciousness, god

[onawah]

This was not my intention:
The title, framed as it is, is a negative discussion, since if the truth is the side of opposition then materialism must already be untrue. Cased closed.
So the discussion is about agreeing with the op or not.

You have to remember that in the OP, I was using the term "scientific materialism" as it applies to the use of science and/or "junk science" for profit or for the furtherance of questionable goals rather than legitimate and ethical goals.
Therefore, I wanted to look at the battle between scientific materialism and science that is truly in positive service to life, including the gray areas. of which there are many.
Straying too far into "pure science", scientific theory, philosophy, etc. is what has given Bill reason to think the thread needs to be split, and he may be right.
Although the discussion about how spirituality can get left out of scientific materialism as defined both ways, is still on topic, and created an interesting expansion.


See: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/materialism
Definition:" the philosophical theory that regards matter and its motions as constituting the universe, and all phenomena, including those of mind, as due to material agencies."
Also:
"preoccupation with or emphasis on material objects, comforts, and considerations, with a disinterest in or rejection of spiritual, intellectual, or cultural values."(--thus leaving out the higher faculties of intuition, imagination, conscience. )

So actually, the term as it is defined both ways dovetail quite nicely and fit very well into this discussion, imho.

Also, the focus should be on when lies are being told by omission--that is, when things like 5G or vaccines are claimed to be safe and the science proving it to be "settled" when there have been no legitimate studies at all that have actually proven that. Especially when the studies that have supposedly proven safety have been shown to be inaccurate, the facts skewed, or facts omitted or obfuscated.)

The above was posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-vs.-Truth&p=1378337&viewfull=1#post1378337




The title, framed as it is, is a negative discussion, since if the truth is the side of opposition then materialism must already be untrue. Cased closed.

So the discussion is about agreeing with the op or not.

[onawah]

Requesting that Jayke and Silvanelf take their debate to a different thread, starting around here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111979-Scientific-Materialism-vs.-Truth&p=1378852&viewfull=1#post1378852
...as they have strayed too far off topic.
This thread was not intended to be focused solely on pure science, science theory, etc. Thanks.

update: I was thinking about an alternative title for this thread and came up with "Junk Science, Censorship, Lies and NWO Agendas"
But given how much of the discussion has already been about scientific materialism, I think changing the title at this point would just cause more confusion, especially to new readers.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Okay, Onawah, I get it. I remember what spun off this thread, now.

The problem seems to be in the interpretation of the data collected in general. The data is immediately tagged with the current bias, and no alternative can be discussed because if it is all it does is cause noise in an otherwise clear signal. The working model cannot accommodate anti-synthetical arguments. Its purpose is to synthesize data, to absorb it into the whole.

In a purely mechanistic universe the rules are different, the laws act differently, than they do in an electrical universe. The reason has to do with the electron itself, and for that matter the photon as well, and the definitions of space and time, and Einstein`s Theories, and the counter intuitive quantum constraints on logic itself. The mechanistic world view is the old view, the view of the 18th and 19th centuries. The 20th century has been about the changing of the old guard, but they will not go quietly into the dark night. Instead they rage against the fury of the truth and ravage her in the name of their egos. This will change.

The mechanistic world view is a bias, a cult, that has changed the world and now the world believes in its promise. It is a cult because we go through 17 years of institutionalized instruction, intended to rewire the brains of the young, albeit with good intent. But all institutions indoctrinate, as part of the natural survival mechanism of the institution, whose survival is paramount, obviously. An institution cannot be wrong in its mandate, or else its reason for existence will be threatened - along with the livelihoods of the many who depend on the institution for survival. There is strong resistance to change, even small ones. Foundational change is impossible...until it isn`t, and becomes obvious to all.

That day is drawing near thanks to people like you who keep battering against the fortifications. Like the walls of Jericho, they will give way under the relentless assault.

Free Energy and free the Truth!

[onawah]

Free Energy in itself would free the Truth! Thanks Ernie--good points, and putting it all in perspective!




Free Energy and free the Truth!

[onawah]

I just noticed that this thread was moved from the "Alternative Science" sub-forum under "General Discussion" to the sub-forum "Covid-19 (the coronavirus)".
As I've explained several times, from the very first post and after, it was not my intention to focus the discussion on Covid-19.
So I am requesting that the Mods please move it back to Alternative Science. It was a difficult choice to make, but I think it was the right one.
Thanks!

[onawah]

(Or maybe "Materialistic Science, Scientific Materialism... and Truth" would better cover all the bases.)

Speaking of Materialistic Science, check out:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106821-The-US-Vaccine-issue-is-more-than-just-about-the-Shots-it-is-about-totalitarian-tiptoe&p=1378837&viewfull=1#post1378837

About The Fifth International Public Conference on Vaccination: “Protecting Health & Autonomy in the 21st Century,” sponsored by NVIC, which will be held online October 16 to 18, 2020


And check out the list of talks, among which are the following great examples of how Materialistic Science is running amuck in our world today (and this is just in the realm of vaccines!):

Jacob Puliyel, M.D. — Redefining Vaccine Reactions to Erase Evidence of Harm

Alan Kassel — Consensus Science Is Not Science Because Science Is Never Settled

Meryl Nass, M.D. — From Anthrax to COVID-19: What You Need to Know About One Company Making a Coronavirus Vaccine

Theresa Deisher, Ph.D. — Ethical Vaccines and The Use of Human Fetal Cells to Make Vaccines

Michael Farris, J.D. — Why Homeschooling Is Under Attack and What You Can Do About It

Rabbi Michoel Green — Ethical Questions on Mandatory Vaccination: Respecting Life and Guarding Your Soul

Bishop Joseph Strickland — Rejecting the Culture of Death to Embrace the Sanctity of Life

Eric Metaxas — The Role of Freedom of Conscience for Martin Luther and the Protestant Religion

Stephanie Christner, D.O. — The Shrinking Medical Vaccine Exemption Handcuffing Doctors and Increasing Vaccine Risks

Alvin Moss, M.D. — Why and How Vaccine Mandates Violate the Ethical and Legal Right to Informed Consent

Larry Palevsky, M.D. — The Physician's Duty to First Do No Harm

Bob Sears, M.D. — When Public Policy Invalidates Professional Judgment: A Pediatrician's Experience

David Brownstein, M.D. — Since When Did It Become a Crime to Support the Immune System?

Marco Cáceres — Tyranny of the Experts: Who's Fact Checking the Fact Checkers?

State Sen. Heidi Sampson — Under the Influence: The Vaccine Mandate Lobby Influencing State Legislatures

Sheila Ealey — When Mothers are Silenced, Children Suffer

Andrew Kaufman, M.D. — Psychological Warfare in the COVID-19 Era

Vera Sharav — Doctors Guilty of Medical Atrocities: From Auschwitz to Tuskegee, Willowbrook and Beyond

The article continues on as follows:
"There was a very bad vaccine bill [that] passed in Virginia, one of the worst that has ever been passed. That is a bill that would codify into law the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices’ (ACIP) recommendations without public hearings, without input really to the legislators, without a vote by the legislator.

Whenever the ACIP makes a recommendation that children should use a certain vaccine, in Virginia it will automatically be put onto the state mandated list [of vaccines] for children to attend school.

The Board of Health will do a review, but the Board of Health is politically appointed. So, basically, what Virginia did is they cut the people out of the process. No longer will there be a vote. So, all the advocacy work that we're encouraging, that's how they're going to try to cut it off.

I predict they're going to try to go state by state with this legislation they passed in Virginia and make every state that way, cutting the people out of the legislative process, which is a direct threat to democracy.”

COVID-19 Vaccine Mandates Are Expected
Fisher is convinced any COVID-19 vaccine, which makes it through licensing approval by the FDA and is eventually recommended by the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, will eventually be mandated by state governments for all children. Clearly, the COVID-19 pandemic is unquestionably one of the greatest threats to freedom and liberty we’ve ever faced in modern history.

The way that they will do that is [through] social sanctions. They will try to get businesses to make it a requirement that you have to have a COVID-19 vaccine in order to work in an office. They will make it mandatory for anyone entering a public space. That's what their goal is. Whether they achieve that or not is up to us. It's up to the people ...

What they have done is unprecedented. This has never occurred in the history of the world and what is so remarkable is that, when you take a step back and look at it, you see that it is highly orchestrated.

How in the world did all the governments, including the U.S. government, decide to shut down their societies — causing widespread, catastrophic, global economic ruin, unemployment at unprecedented levels, small businesses being destroyed?
They [small businesses] will never come back, or it's going to take a long time to come back. Mental health issues and suicides are up, anxiety and depression rates are up, child abuse and spousal abuse rates are up. Hotlines are not able to manage all of the callers because people are in a state of shock and they're suffering — for what?

Yes, you can die and you can be injured by this COVID-19 infection, just like any other infectious disease. But the fear and anxiety that has been created, the pathological fear of being near anybody, ‘Don't touch anybody. Don't be near anybody.’ You would think it was Ebola and people were literally bleeding out in the streets.

This is like influenza or other respiratory infections. But look at Sweden’s per million death rate. They did not lock down. Their chief epidemiologist said, ‘We need to allow controlled herd immunity to take effect. This is an infection. It's going to go through the population. You cannot stop it. You have to manage it, but let's get herd immunity.’2

They [in Sweden] have a lower per million death rate than the United States where we tried to lock everything down. So, the science is not all in and, yet, they're rushing to bring these vaccines out using messenger RNA and DNA technology that has never been licensed for humans. There are all these calls to mandate, to make sure that every man, woman, child takes this vaccine.

This is a coronavirus, it's in the family of coronaviruses that cause the common cold. There are studies showing that it looks as if you can have a mild case of COVID-19 and still get T-cell memory helper cells that are resisting the COVID-19 infection … They also know that you can have a mild case, and it looks as if you can get immunity without even having high antibody levels.3 To me, this is a game changer.

They are having clinical trials and the standard, the measurement they're using to measure proof of immunity, is antibody titers, when the truth is — for this virus — you can have T-cell immunity and no antibodies, but still be immune!4

The other issue is, we could have herd immunity already in the U.S. A lot of asymptomatic people won't be counted as being COVID-19, so you could have herd immunity in this country already, or getting close to it, but they simply aren't measuring for it.”


It couldn't be more clear that this is Materialistic Science at its worst, threatening the health and lives of an entire generation of children, and coming soon to adults as well, if they get their way.
This is not the time to mute our voices.

[onawah]

This may seem off-topic, but it moved me so much, and is such a wonderful example of where science (and all of us!) need to be going, instead of trying to dominate, engineer, alter, improve upon, and/or simply eliminate the natural world, we should be learning to hold it more in reverence, respect, and understanding and FEELING our oneness with it.
Thanks to rgray222 who first posted it here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106567-Animals-are-Magical&p=1379126&viewfull=1#post1379126

3s0LTDhqe5A

[onawah]

The Gordian Knot
Something which I think belongs here too, posted first by Helvetic at :
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=1379385&viewfull=1#post1379385
The Gordian Knot
39,204 views• 9/22/20
Truthstream Media

CmS_SkinfxI

[Agape]

I’ve noticed something very interesting today through my contemplations. It’s kindly humorous as well as to the topic.

We are always complaining about changing stories and information being forever incomplete. But a pick a story from your life you are perfectly familiar with, a person or event to decipher and observe the story studiously everyday for as long time you need to take.
Every time you place your mind on that story, truth, Dharma, teaching, theory or hypothesis it becomes slightly different story,
not only that it becomes more complicated and longer story with characters more protruding and data giving new shocking sense,
with some of it out of time so much you know it’s solutions will be only found in faraway future.

Thus: information is not a “set” but a a flow, a stream that expands on both ends transforming itself to new ornamental data sets,
like embroided patterns on the canvas of cosmic data stream.


In short ..

every pundit has a theory (but also quirks).



🙏🍵🙏

[onawah]

I think we have the title right now and the placement is back to the original. Hopefully the discussion itself will continue on unabated. :nod:

[One]

The Lancet changes editorial policy after hydroxychloroquine Covid study retraction (The Guardian)

One of the world’s leading medical journals, the Lancet, has reformed its editorial policies following a shocking case of apparent research misconduct involving the study of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

[onawah]

This should be getting more attention

The Lancet changes editorial policy after hydroxychloroquine Covid study retraction
New policy comes after serious quality control questions were raised about the data relied on by a study in the medical journal
Melissa Davey
@MelissaLDavey
Tue 22 Sep 2020 00.08 EDT

"One of the world’s leading medical journals, the Lancet, has reformed its editorial policies following a shocking case of apparent research misconduct involving the study of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19.

In May, the Lancet published a peer-reviewed study about the controversial drug hydroxychloroquine, which concluded Covid-19 patients who received the drug were dying at higher rates and experiencing more heart-related complications than other virus patients.

The large observational study analysed data purported to be from nearly 15,000 patients with Covid-19 who received the drug alone or in combination with antibiotics, comparing this data with 81,000 controls who did not receive the drug.

Questions raised over hydroxychloroquine study which caused WHO to halt trials for Covid-19
This data was recorded by hospitals around the world in a database by a US data analytics company known as “Surgisphere”, the Lancet paper said. The findings prompted the World Health Organization to halt its clinical trials of the drug, given the paper’s findings that it was linked with deaths and complications.

But days after the paper was published, Guardian Australia revealed issues with the Australian data in the study. Figures on the number of Covid-19 deaths and patients in hospital cited by the authors did not match up with official government and health department data. Senior clinicians involved in Covid-19 research told Guardian Australia they had never heard of the Surgisphere database.

Researchers from other countries identified similar issues with the data from their hospitals, and a further Guardian Australia investigation revealed doubts over whether the database used by the study authors even existed. Sapan Desai was a co-author of the paper and founder of the Surgisphere database. Following the revelations, information about Surgisphere was deleted from the internet.

It was also revealed that none of the co-authors of the paper had seen the Surgisphere data for themselves, and they said that Desai did not give them access to it even after questions about the paper were raised by Guardian Australia and the research community. The paper’s co-authors, which included a highly respected vascular surgeon, supported the retraction of the paper and distanced themselves from the data.

While the latest available data shows hydroxychloroquine does not reduce deaths among severely unwell patients in hospital with Covid-19, or reduce illness in those with moderate disease, the higher death rates among those given the drug outlined in the Surgisphere study have never been replicated.The publication of the Surgisphere study by the Lancet meant well-controlled studies to definitely determine the drug’s efficacy in preventing or treating the virus were stopped prematurely. Given the drug has been highly politicised by figures such as US president Donald Trump, who has made numerous false claims about its usefulness against Covid-19, rigorous studies into the drug remain important.World Health Organization studies into hydroxychloroquine resumed following Guardian Australia’s Surgisphere investigation, and the Lancet retracted the Surgipshere paper and vowed to review its publication policy. Such rapid retractions are rare, and followed pressure from the international research community who questioned how the study passed quality control processes.

The new policy, published three months after the study was retracted, requires that more than one author on a paper must directly access and verify the data reported in the manuscript.

“For research articles that are the result of an academic and commercial partnership, one of the authors named as having accessed and verified data must be from the academic team,” the policy states. “In addition, all authors will be asked to sign the author statements form to confirm they had full access to the data reported in their article, and accept responsibility for submitting the article for publication.”

One of the questions raised by the publication of the Surgisphere paper was how the paper passed the peer-review process.The Lancet has updated its peer-review policy, stating: “Editors will ensure that at least one peer reviewer is knowledgable about the details of the dataset being reported and can understand and comment on its strengths and limitations in relation to the research question being addressed.”For studies that use very large datasets, such as the Surgisphere dataset, editors will ensure that in addition to statistical peer review, a review from an expert in data science is obtained.

“Finally, we will explicitly ask reviewers if they have concerns about research integrity or publication ethics regarding the manuscript they are reviewing,” the new policy states.

The new policy is effective immediately."

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction[/QUOTE]

(Let's hope they are sincere.)

[One]

Science is now just another wing of politics (spiked)

When science so readily attaches itself to politics, policies and candidates, it loses all claim to objectivity.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/24/science-is-now-just-another-wing-of-politics/

"The idea that policies can be ‘fact-based’ or ‘science-based’ is itself an ideological claim, no matter how hard we wish for it to be otherwise. Scientists making such claims try to pass themselves off as honest brokers. But they fail to ask scientific questions that might cause them to see ‘heat-related deaths’ as an economic problem, rather than a meteorological problem. The idea that a global bureaucracy established to enforce a ban on combustion will do more for poor people than making them wealthier is a demonstration of the cynical contempt that today’s champions of ‘science’ hold for ordinary people. They think that poverty is a function of weather. Trump might appeal to voters who know and can see for themselves that it is not."

[onawah]

Review of The Gordian Knot from Alexandra Bruce
https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/the-gordian-knot/
9/24/20

"Problem. Reaction. Solution.

I had an interesting insight the other day: the pandemic security theater to which we're being subjected; the authoritarian lockdowns, the mask mandates, the closed businesses that have bankrupted millions of people - all of this is designed with the purpose of discrediting the whole idea of representative government.

If the people you elect and the government to which you pay taxes will so insouciantly bankrupt you and heckle you about wearing masks, your eventual reaction will be to "burn it down," as BLM and Antifa are wont to do. It looks like all of us, on every side are being manipulated toward this outcome.

The "solution" is a purely AI-driven technocratic order, where everyone and everything is tokenized and put on the Internet of Things, with as many human decision-makers as possible removed from the equation. An important function of this network would be to disable the ability of dissenters to financially transact, effectively canceling them, as described by Aaron Russo, from a conversation he had with Nicholas Rockefeller in the late 1990s.

Still, one might understand the appeal of a faceless but efficient, automated government, if we could be spared having to countenance the Nancy Pelosis, the Adam Schiffs and the Ilhan Omars of the world perverting the law; the Gavin Newsoms and the Gretchen Whitmers keeping us indefinitely unemployed and the Bill DeBlasios and the Jenny Durkans inciting felons by dismantling the police.

LOCK STEP

We know that COVID-19 is a highly-scripted Globalist exercise, because Mike Pompeo accidentally admitted as much last March and also because it's evident that governments and media around the world are all following the same script promoted by Internationalist entities, like the UN, the World Economic Forum and the Rockefeller Foundation.

In May 2010, the Rockefeller Foundation published "Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development", in which they proposed various scenarios that would put enormous stress on society in order to gauge the response and therefore, to anticipate future trends in technology and development.

The first scenario, entitled, "Lock Step", describes a world of total government control during a pandemic that would allow national leaders to flex their authority and impose airtight rules and restrictions that would remain after the pandemic faded.

Reading what was written ten years ago is like reading the script of what happened in 2020:

"At first, the notion of a more controlled world gained wide acceptance and approval. Citizens willingly gave up some of their sovereignty — and their privacy — to more paternalistic states in exchange for greater safety and stability. Citizens were more tolerant, and even eager, for top-down direction and oversight, and national leaders had more latitude to impose order in the ways they saw fit. In developed countries, this heightened oversight took many forms: biometric IDs for all citizens, for example, and tighter regulation of key industries whose stability was deemed vital to national interests."

GOVERNMENT OVERTHROW?

Toward the end of the Lock Step scenario, something plays out, which may be the actual intended outcome of this whole exercise:

"Protestors in Nigeria brought down the government, fed up with the entrenched cronyism and corruption. Even those who liked the greater stability and predictability of this world began to grow uncomfortable and constrained by so many tight rules and by the strictness of national boundaries."

This film is the latest by TruthStream Media, with many musings on all of the above and everything that's been happening with the Flu d'État."

The Gordian Knot
Something which I think belongs here too, posted first by Helvetic at :
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=1379385&viewfull=1#post1379385
The Gordian Knot
39,204 views• 9/22/20
Truthstream Media

CmS_SkinfxI

[onawah]

This is True, This is True, This is TRUTH
First posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=1379395&viewfull=1#post1379395

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=44527&d=1600760394

[onawah]

Even a cursory glance at the archive will impress you!
The Vaccine Hoax is Over. Documents from UK reveal 30 Years of Cover-up
(This is from 2013. There hasn't been a lack of data exposing the ruse, the problem really seems to be the inability or willingness of the public at large to comprehend how badly they've been duped. )
https://archive.fo/A4pKe

[Jayke]

An entry in H.L Cornell’s ‘Encyclopaedia of Medical Astrology (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3241967-encyclopedia-of-medical-astrology)’, written in 1933:

Page 15 under entry for ‘Air’




Atmosphere - the air is ruled by Uranus and Mercury. The Ether is ruled by Uranus. The condition of the air has much to do with health and disease, and the atmosphere is much acted upon by the planetary influences each day, and so much that the weather can be predicted a year ahead by making a study of the planetary aspects and influences that will be forming, as is done by the Hicks Almanac People, of St. Louis, Mo. The air may be corrupted and vitiated by the planetary vibrations and aspects, causing disease, epidemics, famine, pestilence, fevers, and under certain planetary influences an epidemic may spread over the World, or parts of the World ruled by the signs of the Zodiac involved in the planetary configurations for the time. This is the reason why Cholera, a disease native to India, will spread to other shores in certain years.

The germs of certain contagious diseases are developed by atmospheric conditions spontaneously in different countries, and not spread by the transmigration of germs, as commonly supposed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reminds me of this talk by the Russian FSB on ‘conceptual power’. The elite keep the true science for themselves, so they can feed us false narratives they use for profit and control.

kuf9d3sci-w

[onawah]

The Fall of the Spirits of Darkness By Rudolf Steiner
Rudolf Steiner, Theosophist and creator of Anthroposophy contributed some very astute and interesting insights into the way that humankind evolves intellectually and spiritually.
I'm listening (and re-listening) now to a reading of his work "The Fall of the Spirits of Darkness" which offers an understanding not commonly considered of the development of Spiritual Materialism and much more.
It requires focused attention and will (in my case) lead to listening to the rest of the series as well.

The Fall of the Spirits of Darkness By Rudolf Steiner
4,490 views• Feb 14, 2019

Rudolf Steiner Archive
The Fall of the Spirits of Darkness (CW 177), a cycle of 14 lectures by Rudolf Steiner. Given in Dornach from the 29 of September to the 28 of October, 1917. Translated by Anna Meuss FIL, MTA. Brought to you with the permission of Rudolf Steiner Press of London

Lecture 1: The Drivings Forces behind Europe's War
Lecture 2: Humanity's Struggle for Morality
Lecture 3: The Search for a Perfect World
Lecture 4: The Elemental Spirits of Birth and Death
Lecture 5: Changes in Humanity's Spiritual Make-Up
Lecture 6: The New Spirituality
Lecture 7: Working From Spiritual Reality
Lecture 8: Abstraction and Reality
Lecture 9: The Battle between Michael and the Dragon
Lecture 10: The Influence of the Backward Angels
Lecture 11: Recognizing the Inner Human Being
Lecture 12: The Spirits of Light and the Spirits of Darkness
Lecture 13: The Fallen Spirits's Influence in the World
Lecture 14: Into the Future

part 2 - 0:32:15
part 3 - 1:07:10
part 4 - 1:50:04
part 5 - 2:25:11
part 6 - 3:04:30
part 7 - 3:43:05
part 8 - 4:29:09
part 9 - 5:12:12
part 10 - 5:45:05
part 11 - 6:24:26
part 12 - 7:01:38
part 13 - 7:36:15
part 14 - 8:16:35
-ZZprY9iWxM

( Dark Journalist https://www.youtube.com/user/darkjournalist
includes such work (of what he calls the "Mystery Schools" ) in some of his video series, one of the reasons I find his work so interesting.)

[Constance]

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[onawah]

Most welcome, Constance... not to mention Steiner's prophecy about the Covid vaccine, which is what launched me into this remarkable Steiner research in the first place.
See: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102135-Dark-Journalist-Joseph-Farrell-UFO-X-Factor-Black-Budget-Secret-Space-Network-16-March-2018&p=1379853&viewfull=1#post1379853




Thanks for this Onawah. Muchly appreciate the share:heart: I find it really interesting that what Steiner had to say in the first five minutes is exactly where we find ourselves now.