Actress Ellen Page Is Now Actor Elliot Page

[Mike]

Ellen Page has announced that she is now Elliot Page, and "his" new pronouns are "he/him" and "they/them".

Hang on, because this gets confusing...

Ellen Page married a woman years ago, and is still married to that woman. Back then and up till the present, Ellen was a proud lesbian.

But now that Ellen is now Elliot, and identifying as male, and is married to a woman, wouldn't that make Elliot a straight male?

Well, pump your breaks viewers, because Elliot is also identifying as queer. So, Elliot Page, formerly the lesbian actress known as Ellen Page, currently married to a lesbian, is now identifying as a gay man? Her lesbian wife must be just as confused as she is...

But wait, am I getting all this right? Well, apparently not. One paragraph in the article I've linked to says the following:
"...Page uses both he/him and they/them pronouns, and describes himself as trans and non-binary, meaning that his gender identity is neither man nor woman..."

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f5/4e/b8/f54eb8a70d58c1c8dbce0a8f739292cb.jpg


c955VGozAos

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/elliot-page-transgender-ellen-page-juno-umbrella-academy-1234843023/

[thepainterdoug]

whatever, sex is overated anyway.

the painter doris

[Patient]

Yeah, just scroll up and down from here and look at all of the pics of the faces.

[Mike]

whatever, sex is overated anyway.

the painter doris


:clapping::bigsmile:

[DeDukshyn]

 

I don't give two craps what gender, species, colour, or lack therof one wants to consider them-self. Your role playing makes no difference to me, just don't give me crap or look down on me, or judge me for using the 'wrong' pronoun without telling me specifically what that should be, because that would indicate that regardless of gender, you're the ass, not me.

[Mike]

 

I don't give two craps what gender, species, colour, or lack therof one wants to consider them-self. Your role playing makes no difference to me, just don't give me crap or look down on me, or judge me for using the 'wrong' pronoun without telling me specifically what that should be, because that would indicate that regardless of gender, you're the ass, not me.


Mike this is precisely how I feel about it.

Actually I have enormous sympathy with people struggling with their sexuality and identity. And I think it's wonderful when they discover whatever they feel is their authentic self. What's troubling is that this current movement feels very inorganic to me, and it's being thrust upon us in place of objective reality, all in the name of "compassion". The more dubious elements of it feel sick and deranged to me...like the universe is playing a cruel joke on us or something.

There's kind of a collective gaslighting of what I guess we'd call normative people here. And it's the kids I'm most worried for

[TargeT]

intersectionality is meaningless and a distraction.

I don't give a ... piece of wood what you are.. I care what you do (and as a libertarian, do what ever you want! as long as you don't infringe on me or others, as always).

[DeDukshyn]

 

I don't give two craps what gender, species, colour, or lack therof one wants to consider them-self. Your role playing makes no difference to me, just don't give me crap or look down on me, or judge me for using the 'wrong' pronoun without telling me specifically what that should be, because that would indicate that regardless of gender, you're the ass, not me.


Mike this is precisely how I feel about it.

Actually I have enormous sympathy with people struggling with their sexuality and identity. And I think it's wonderful when they discover whatever they feel is their authentic self. What's troubling is that this current movement feels very inorganic to me, and it's being thrust upon us in place of objective reality, all in the name of "compassion". The more dubious elements of it feel sick and deranged to me...like the universe is playing a cruel joke on us or something.

There's kind of a collective gaslighting of what I guess we'd call normative people here. And it's the kids I'm most worried for

I can easily say that judging others for their personal preferences of gender, clothing, specific styles of living, sexuality, etc. is 100% not cool. It sucks. It's stupid. But what is almost as bad as that, or maybe worse, is imagining that everyone is judging you for said personal preferences, and then judging them for that which you have imagined. I am seeing way too much of this lately.

It's like pulling the race card when no racism occurred.

That all said, I have more than one good friend that has preferences that differ from my own, and I love them as they are and who they are, and how they wish to express themselves. But at least one of them is a bit caught up in what I mention above, which is the uncomfortable part for me -- they could be so much happier if they could judge less -- as we all should.

I didn't mean to sound like an ass in my previous post but my brevity may have made it come across that way a little.

[Mike]

no you didn't come off like an ass at all.

as far as Page goes, i have a million and 1 questions, because nothing about her announcement makes any sense to me. the first one might be: if she's non binary and not identifying as man or woman, what's the point of switching to male pronouns???

why do i care, some might be thinking. i care because i see this as a symptom of a much larger problem, and i care because if our most traditionally held truths are being changed, it's going to affect all of us

[Ewan]

...because Elliot is also identifying as queer. So, Elliot Page, <snip> is now identifying as a gay man?



Don't know much about this area but I think those terms mean different things these days. My source for that piece of information is Dave Chappelle, when telling a joke about the LGBT's he introduced a 5th category, the Queer.

(( Just checked Urban Dictionary - queer: Originally pejorative for gay, now being reclaimed by some gay men, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered persons as a self-affirming umbrella term. Caution: still extremely offensive when used as an epithet. ))

99% sure the rest of the world couldn't give an owl pellet, but for some reason mainstream media thinks we need to know, hmm, make that 95% - Twitter just came to mind.

[Ewan]

I didn't mean to sound like an ass in my previous post but my brevity may have made it come across that way a little.

Far as I'm concerned it was the star post of the thread.

Could just picture you jettisoning a stream of tobacco juice at an old yellow dog as you mounted your horse and rode off into the night ala Josey Wales. 'Cept it was too many words for Clint really, a little more brevity if you really want to nail the part. ;)

[DeDukshyn]

no you didn't come off like an ass at all.

as far as Page goes, i have a million and 1 questions, because nothing about her announcement makes any sense to me. the first one might be: if she's non binary and not identifying as man or woman, what's the point of switching to male pronouns???

why do i care, some might be thinking. i care because i see this as a symptom of a much larger problem, and i care because if our most traditionally held truths are being changed, it's going to affect all of us


As far as I'm concerned all these labels we're supposed to be accepting, using, identifying with, or not identifying with, or whatever, are all incredibly stupid. Just be whatever frickin' name you want to call yourself, and go with that. Everything else is no one else's damn business and you don't need to make it anyone else's damn business. It will be someone's business when it needs to be. The end.

Maybe I'm just looking too far forward, but I do believe the "accept me for my preference!" honeymoon has already run its course and now its just forced nonsense where everyone wants a label or two to wear as a badge of honour ... its not a badge of honour - you are normal like everyone else is normal.

EDIT: ^^ Ewan, lol! :)

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[cursichella1]

From the Babylon Bee

Elliot Page Retroactively Awarded 17 Oscars For Amazingly Convincing Portrayals Of Women

December 3rd, 2020

HOLLYWOOD, CA—At a lavish press conference today, actor Elliot Page received 17 Oscar awards for his previous work portraying women in a variety of films, even though Page himself is a man, which is something we definitely believe, as you can tell by our use of words like “his” and “himself.”

“We are proud to recognize Elliot’s amazing work in portraying women so very realistically -- most people didn't even know he was a man,” said Brett Long, Director of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Subcommittee on Preemptive Apologies and Narrative Alignment.

Though it was difficult to hear Page from behind his armload of Oscar statuettes, it is believed that he said something like, “As a man who is very manly and enjoys manly things, I couldn’t be more proud of my work, and I look forward to working on more manly portrayals of waifish, wide-eyed ingenues.”

Long later told reporters that his subcommittee will be having many more similar ceremonies in the near future. “We’re looking at Hattie McDaniel right now, and we’re either going to give her six more Oscars for being a cultural trailblazer or cancel her completely for perpetuating racial stereotypes. What do you guys think?”

Link to BABYLON BEE article (https://babylonbee.com/news/elliot-page-awarded-17-retroactive-oscars-for-amazingly-convincing-portrayals-of-women/?utm_content=bufferee8f1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) (Satire)

[Journeyman]

 

I don't give two craps what gender, species, colour, or lack therof one wants to consider them-self. Your role playing makes no difference to me, just don't give me crap or look down on me, or judge me for using the 'wrong' pronoun without telling me specifically what that should be, because that would indicate that regardless of gender, you're the ass, not me.


Mike this is precisely how I feel about it.

Actually I have enormous sympathy with people struggling with their sexuality and identity. And I think it's wonderful when they discover whatever they feel is their authentic self. What's troubling is that this current movement feels very inorganic to me, and it's being thrust upon us in place of objective reality, all in the name of "compassion". The more dubious elements of it feel sick and deranged to me...like the universe is playing a cruel joke on us or something.

There's kind of a collective gaslighting of what I guess we'd call normative people here. And it's the kids I'm most worried for

Years ago I'd have said 'relax', it's just one person working out their own issues. The most infernal aspect is that on an individual level, no empathic human being wants another to suffer needlessly. It doesn't 'cost' anything to be supportive surely and I have no interest in what other people wear or call themselves, let alone wish to control it. So my liberal perspective is to send warm wishes and support, respect whatever request is being made and forget about it.

Except I no longer believe that this is just one more expression of an individual's confused journey to self fulfilment. I think many actors jobs don't stop when their movie wraps, I think they're working 24/7 and the most important role they play is themselves. There's massive levels of deception at work and a pattern beneath the surface which maps to the goals of the mystery religions that never really went away. The same underlying elite goals that underpin the Harry Styles photoshoot are at work in this carefully constructed narrative.

Again, I think this is far more important than we've hitherto realised. It's one of the fundamental goals of the elite as they seek to transform society into their idea of perfection, to ensure their new order prevails in the new age. The goal ultimately isn't Ellen or Elliott. it's the non binary elimination of the masculine and the feminine replaced with the androgynous ideal.

[Patient]

Yes Journeyman, a very good point.

I don't even know how to refer to this community anymore. There is constantly a new identity being created. One thing to take notice of, is that there are obviously major things missing from people's lives as so many feel the need to be seen as being strongly identified belonging to one of these groups. They all seem to want to be waving a flag of their own. And of course, if you raise a flag to say you are straight and are just as you were when you were born then you will be attacked.

I have kids - I know what kids are going through. Some kids are troubled due to the fact that they do not want to change to be something else. They are worried that they will not be accepted for who they are originally. The goal of whoever is in charge of messing with the people has really taken a bite out of people and you have to pay attention to those around you who may need a bit of help.

What really gets me upset is when you see parents changing their children's sex at 4 and 5 years old because they saw their son or daughter playing with a tool or some cloth.

In my line of work, there was a person fired from their job because of their own confusion around the use of pronouns. When you are working with a group of people and there are so many people with different identities and some who are changing themselves from week to week, how are you suppose to keep up with it all?

General words in our vocabulary are changing so fast sometimes in their meaning that you are quickly jumped on for saying the wrong thing. You have to be very careful when you want to compliment someone. Perhaps that is why some people are enjoying being forced to wear masks these days because they are allowed to hide in plain site and not have to try to participate in communicating.

[thepainterdoug]

Its all so overblown. all this identity stuff. get a grip. I am a traditional hetero, (boring hugh?)
I don't get what I want, don't have a girlfriend, a mate , I live alone with my cactus ,get little to no attention or verification regarding my sexuality from anyone anywhere at any time. Im White and in my 60ies and now have become invisible. I LOVE IT!

if your not having sex to procreate, then your having it for pleasure which distills down to orgasm. And if you have sex without "finishing " it may not be that pleasurable.
But either way, ALL is easily solved with getting oneself off, and if you dont now how to do that well then you are your own ultimate victim .

Hugging and loving can be done with your mate, a friend or your pet.

NO one is stopping anyone from being anything unless you are infringing on others or breaking a law.

all this is in my opinion is drinking the bored hollywood cool aid that is steering this country into further division and violence.
its soooo cool to be misunderstood.

should we be at real war, under attack, have to bare arms, fight for our survival, our sexuality world be straightened out 1 2 3

[Bassplayer1]

Does anyone else feel the confusion in their brains when they see this type of grammar and image displayed together?




Page uses both he/him and they/them pronouns, and describes himself as transgender and non-binary, meaning that his gender identity is neither man nor woman.

Nick Adams, GLAAD’s Director of Transgender Media, said “Elliot Page has given us fantastic characters on-screen, and has been an outspoken advocate for all LGBTQ people. He will now be an inspiration to countless trans and non-binary people. All transgender people deserve the chance to be ourselves and to be accepted for who we are. We celebrate the remarkable Elliot Page today.

45344

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/elliot-page-transgender-ellen-page-juno-umbrella-academy-1234843023/


It's evident to me that the way that this article (like many others of its ilk) has been written and designed has been to deliberately create confusion and stress in the hearts and minds of people. Keep people in a state of stress and confusion and you have people right where you want them to be.

Corporate media deal exclusively in the false self - the self that only celebrates and identifies with the ego. Media continuously have us awash in a sea of celebrities and other influential figures who have developed no true sense of self - and it is the young people who are more vulnerable to this.

When spirituality comes first, everything flows from there but if a child is brought into this world and only all the false realities are entertained, things very quickly become seriously out of balance.

It's the parents-to-be I'm most concerned about. I know two young parents who have been influenced by the whole social justice movement (they are not gay or transgender) to the point where they decided to call their newborn a name that could be male or female (there's nothing wrong with that inherently) but they also do not refer to their newborn as a boy (which is what he is), they refer to their newborn as an it and they dress the newborn in colours other than pink or blue. Once again, there is nothing inherently wrong with not dressing a child stereotypically but it is the whole spirit in which they are motivated to do this.

It is the intent to have their child grow up as a gender neutral. No one is allowed to refer to him as a boy. What are going to be the implications for his masculinity long term?

I have friends who were delighted by this move. They think that this is a politically correct way to refer to a child. I was horrified. What is going to happen to that childs brain as he is growing up? How much more complicated and stressful is it all going to be?
What's going to happen when it is time for education? What happens if he wants to compete in athletic sports? How is he going to perceive himself when his hormones start to change and he starts to develop as a sexual being? What's going to happen when he eventually wants to date someone?

I can see the changes being made in schools/universities and corporations as they dance to the tune of the whole politically correct transgender movement but what direction is this ultimately all headed in and what does this mean for the future of the human race?

I'm the first to want everyone to be happy and safe to be whoever and whatever they want. I'm happy to jump in and defend those being given a hard time over it, but that's where the buck stops.

Parents calling their beautiful baby boy 'It' is a form of child abuse. Sorry to be harsh but its my opinion.

The world has adoption agencies with long waiting lists of fantastic potential parents that will likely NEVER be allowed to be a parent and deemed as unfit because one parent might like 3 glasses of wine instead of 2 with their meal on a Saturday night, or another parent many years ago when they were young may have a had a brush with the law for something trivial like a bit of shop lifting. Whereas a couple that are 'ex lesbians, now men that still like wearing dresses but call them queer' would probably be deemed as wonderful and ideal 'candidates'. I'm not saying they wouldn't be but not at the expense/exclusion of others.

Reminds me of David Icke talking about Richard Day in the late sixties and his lecture at one of the London Universities - about the planned sexualization of children - getting everyone obsessed with this, and consumerism and mindless celebrity crap.

A spiritual world is one that's hard to control. A world obsessed with sex and identity is a piece of cake to control. And though I may laugh and joke about the insanity, it's horrifying and chilling. Because right before our eyes we are witnessing the deliberate rapid decline and elimination of the spiritual. And it's not enough or should I say helpful having a handful of celebrity 'gurus' peddling consumer sponsored 'Instagram spirituality' which is nothing more than narcissistic indulgence that eventually leads one to the Identity stuff in many cases anyway!

I really do see this as a huge battle for the Spirit - particularly for the newborns and children coming into this weird world. We certainly don't need a vaccine that is rumoured (correctly or incorrectly) to switch off the desire to connect with God/the Divine/Source etc when you've got an endless supply of celebrity 'influencers' promoting attention seeking freedom and individuality via their genitals and fashion statements.

[Patient]

This is a rabbit hole all in itself and going deeper and deeper.

When you say "they", in my world from my perspective you are referring to a group of people or someone you don't know.

"It" is not a person, it is a thing, an ornament, an object.

This is clearly designed to take away identity - not enhance it. Like so many things these days it seems upside-down.


One day we will wake up and everything will be floating away into the sky as gravity joins in to be "neutral".

[avid]

Don’t be daft, reality is how we were born, and kudos to all of our pairings to find each other, but to negate reality is to cast aspersions on the real folk, our neighbours/friends/support networks etc.

[Patient]

Don’t be daft, reality is how we were born, and kudos to all of our pairings to find each other, but to negate reality is to cast aspersions on the real folk, our neighbours/friends/support networks etc.

Humour is meant to be silly. Or has that suddenly changed as well? Yes, I did attack the integrity of how silly our society is becoming. It is being split into many pieces, thus losing its integrity in many ways.

And I am quite integrated amongst "real folk" and know them well.

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Sue (Ayt)]

Calling people "it", in my opinion is chilling, as viewing people as objects is known as a classic trait of sociopaths and psychopaths.

That appears to be what they are attempting to shape all humanity to become - perhaps in the attempt to recreate humanity in their own (psychopathic) image?

[Praxis]

 

I don't give two craps what gender, species, colour, or lack therof one wants to consider them-self. Your role playing makes no difference to me, just don't give me crap or look down on me, or judge me for using the 'wrong' pronoun without telling me specifically what that should be, because that would indicate that regardless of gender, you're the ass, not me.


Mike this is precisely how I feel about it.

Actually I have enormous sympathy with people struggling with their sexuality and identity. And I think it's wonderful when they discover whatever they feel is their authentic self. What's troubling is that this current movement feels very inorganic to me, and it's being thrust upon us in place of objective reality, all in the name of "compassion". The more dubious elements of it feel sick and deranged to me...like the universe is playing a cruel joke on us or something.

There's kind of a collective gaslighting of what I guess we'd call normative people here. And it's the kids I'm most worried for

Clearly you do care, or else you would not have made the thread.

I wonder what kind of reaction this kind of post is going to create on this site? Maybe that is the point of thread. You dont actually care about the post, you like the drama that will inevitably surround this thread because it is exactly the type of thread to get people to respond to it.

When you say "I have sympathy(in general)" But then spend the next hundred words saying why you dont have for this particular movement because it feels "inorganic" you do not come across as good faith.

You really want to be the joker and it shows.

[Mike]

 

I don't give two craps what gender, species, colour, or lack therof one wants to consider them-self. Your role playing makes no difference to me, just don't give me crap or look down on me, or judge me for using the 'wrong' pronoun without telling me specifically what that should be, because that would indicate that regardless of gender, you're the ass, not me.


Mike this is precisely how I feel about it.

Actually I have enormous sympathy with people struggling with their sexuality and identity. And I think it's wonderful when they discover whatever they feel is their authentic self. What's troubling is that this current movement feels very inorganic to me, and it's being thrust upon us in place of objective reality, all in the name of "compassion". The more dubious elements of it feel sick and deranged to me...like the universe is playing a cruel joke on us or something.

There's kind of a collective gaslighting of what I guess we'd call normative people here. And it's the kids I'm most worried for

Clearly you do care, or else you would not have made the thread.

I wonder what kind of reaction this kind of post is going to create on this site? Maybe that is the point of thread. You dont actually care about the post, you like the drama that will inevitably surround this thread because it is exactly the type of thread to get people to respond to it.

When you say "I have sympathy(in general)" But then spend the next hundred words saying why you dont have for this particular movement because it feels "inorganic" you do not come across as good faith.

You really want to be the joker and it shows.



I have sympathy for individuals. I do not have sympathy for the movement.

The movement, which is largely about power (masquerading as compassion) - and which consists of many disingenuous actors - makes it much much more difficult for the people who are genuinely struggling with their sexuality and identity to adjust. The trans community (if there is such a thing) is being co-opted and corrupted for sinister purposes. So is the black community, or any community really that has "inclusivity, equity, and diversity" as it's mantra.

Now go on and watch the telly like a good boy.

[Patient]

Another example of how our language is being used to mess with people; My son told me about a certain type of video game streaming sessions. A well known video game streamer will play a game for the first time without having any prior knowledge about the game.

His comments and feedback are his very first impressions of the game - they call this "A blind play through". They have just banned this saying that it is offensive to blind people.

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Mike]

Matt Walsh from the Daily Wire breaks all this down beautifully:

8MbCeK-gR24

[Bill Ryan]

An interesting discussion about this between Keri Smith (the 'walkaway' Social Justice Warrior, with a thread about her journey here: Former Social Justice Warrior Explains Why Social Justice Is All About Power And Control (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111381-Former-Social-Justice-Warrior-Explains-Why-Social-Justice-Is-All-About-Power-And-Control)) and Carter Laren of Unsafe Space.

Part of the YouTube text reads:
...they observe the memory hole into which the obsequious media has thrown the name "Ellen Page," replacing it with the woke actress' new moniker, Elliot Page. Who starred in the movie "Juno" as a pregnant teenage girl? A guy named, "Elliot," don't you remember?
The section, which is entertaining, intelligent, perceptive and thought-provoking, runs from 10:50—28:45. One of the extremely good points made by Keri is that there's a difference between "hate speech" (dictating what one cannot say) and "compelled speech" (dictating what one MUST say). She suggests this is a whole new step now being taken. And I'd agree.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3rL38Y5q34

[iota]

to take a line from the video ... '

he said :

"i don't go along with your mandatory take on the world"

> mandatory hmmm

someone else imposing THEIR will upon him
doesn't seem very nice ...

and he made a recommendation:

"that you speak the truth whenever it is readily available"

that is a GREAT recommendation ... period

"you are under no obligation moral or otherwise ... or to teach that to your children"

i left the middle part out because it can be ANY blank

the problem is not what 'they' are presenting to 'us'
the problem IS that WE take their presentation
and then FEEL morally obligated to suppress the authenticity of our being

to be completely subjugated, docile and complicit in agreement
with no voice of our own, no room for disagreement, no tolerance for expression of opinions

but that is not on 'them'

they can only present the situation

it is not a problem ... it is an opportunity .... to remain empowered in spite of the:

insistence
demand
command

of another that we

"DO AS WE'RE TOLD"

those that obey
should not be confused about the title of those they 'obey'

it is > "MASTER"

because a rose
by any other name
is STILL a rose

irrespective of HOW it identifies ... :flower:

[Bill Ryan]

Here are just a few of the anomalies. (Or whatever the best term may be!)


Elloit/Ellen is married to a woman, Emma Portner. Does that mean that Elliot is now straight?
Emma is or was a lesbian. Is she straight now? Or maybe bi? Or maybe just confused?
Elliot/Ellen's latest film, Robodog, (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3501062/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1) is in post-production. She plays a character called 'Izzy'. Is Izzy now a man as well?
She says she's "transgender". But as best I understand, she's not had any surgical procedures. (Do correct me if I'm wrong.) It may be assumed she's still capable of bearing children, one of the definitions — presumably! — of a woman. So what is a "man"? And what is a "woman"? (Of course, this simple question has been posed many times by skeptical and quizzical commentators, and rightly, too)

[igniop]

Hello All,

So I've been a member of this forum for many years but rarely (or maybe never?) wrote or posted anything here. was mostly on the reading side of this all.

Now, as a gay person I think its time to write something and I never stop being surprised at the things I keep reading throughout the years which are coming from our "community" of "truth seekers"(?) (for lack of better terms). from reading about gays not being the "correct" spiritual way to trans people not even existing. I'm always so surprised when this is coming from people who basically I always assume to be the most open minded and loving people on this planet(and beyond). and I gotta ask - aren't we all here to express our free will as long as we don't hurt anyone or infringe on their free will?

one, two, three or ten genders - does it really matter? the universe loves variety.

so many people are still so scared of breaking the old paradigm of a strictly defined only male or only female. wheres our souls and source might be genderless or multi gender anyway and the universe and other planets might have so many genders or none!
(and what about the indigenous north American cultures "third gender"?)

some people here said they don't care at all and yet I already see two videos posted here in which they keep referring to him as a "her" and thus cancelling who he might truly believe that he is.
If a friend or family member decide to change their name would you keep calling them by their old name even if you know this might hurt them deeply? even if this might show total lack of acceptance of their choice and a total cancellation of who they feel they are?

I know this subject is very annoying but the reason why trans people are so sensitive to pronouns amongst other things is just because they are so so far from being accepted. when people cant seem to accept who they are.
and if people in a place like this forum cant accept them imagine what goes on in the outside world.

why is a gender change so scary? and why is it so wrong and scary letting our children choose and letting them know that they have a full freedom of choice and full love and support as to whatever they decide to be or what they discover that they might be.


and to answer some of bill's questions as I know quite a few trans people from first hand:



Here are just a few of the anomalies. (Or whatever the best term may be!)


Elloit/Ellen is married to a woman, Emma Portner. Does that mean that Elliot is now straight?


Emma is or was a lesbian. Is she straight now? Or maybe bi? Or maybe just confused?


Elliot/Ellen's latest film, Robodog, (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3501062/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1) is in post-production. She plays a character called 'Izzy'. Is Izzy now a man as well?

She says she's "transgender". But as best I understand, she's not had any surgical procedures. (Do correct me if I'm wrong.) It may be assumed she's still capable of bearing children, one of the definitions — presumably! — of a woman. So what is a "man"? And what is a "woman"? (Of course, this simple question has been posed many times by skeptical and quizzical commentators, and rightly, too)


- being trans is not about sexual orientation - one can be both trans and straight, bi or gay or even pansexual.

- She might be bi, she might be pansexual. A very good friend of mine has a trans boyfriend (which means he was a girl and now he is a boy).
She once said the following thing: " I don't care about his body. don't care whether he is a boy or a girl. I care about his soul" (I think this sentence should sum up an (my) answer for this whole discussion)

- If Elliot is an actor - the character is whatever the character is supposed to be and thats why its called acting. have there been no woman played by man and vice versa?


- the whole point is that trans is not about your genitals. not about surgery, and not about the body. it is about what you feel from the inside. most trans people say they felt like a different gender since they were children. its actually called gender dysphoria. the reason that older people only come out now is because they might have been afraid to admit it or to accept it because our society treats them so bad. and even now. see - this thread!

[onawah]

I've shared this before, but perhaps it will be useful in this thread.
Years ago when I lived in CA. I used to attend classes, workshops and psychic fairs at a couple of the branches of the Berkeley Psychic Institute in the Bay Area.
(They had branches in other states as well, but they all bore the name of BPI, as that was the founding chapter.)
All of the teachers there and many of the students were psychic, and the general goals were to teach and learn and perform as psychics in a safe and sane manner and environment.
One of the workshops I attended there that was most instructive was about gender identify.
Looking back on it, the information that was shared then just seems like very obvious common sense to me now.
But at the time, since I had not really thought about it much, it seemed revelatory.

The main premise (which I had no problem accepting, since I already knew a bit about reincarnation) was that souls incarnating on Earth for a time, as part of their learning experience here, must commit to experiencing life as both a male and a female.
(Not sure why that is--some kind of contract that human beings as a whole have with Gaia, perhaps...)

Problems tend to arise when a soul becomes too attached to attributes of one gender or the other and so comes to favor incarnating as that gender.
Which would happen most often when a soul allowed itself to incarnate as one gender repeatedly, instead of taking turns as one for a time, and then the other.
In essence, every soul is both male and female, though it may be that souls will have a personal preference, and that's OK.
But that does not excuse any soul from the requirement of incarnating as the less favored gender; however uncomfortable that may be, it is both necessary and required.

All the behaviors we see are presumably as a result of that challenging requirement, and would probably be much better accepted simply if the root cause were understood.
I think a lot of the controversy now surrounding gender issues will dissipate once it is generally accepted that souls in essence are not one of or the other gender, but both.
And that reincarnation is not just a theory, but an actuality.
Therefore, earthlings have generally all experienced or will experience lifetimes as both male and female.
We still have a way to go before that happens, apparently...
But hacking off genitals, etc. will likely just prolong the agony for those who cannot accept, and are in resistance.

[Mike]

Thanks igniop for posting here!:handshake:

I can only speak for myself obviously, but I'm sure I speak for most members here when I say that I don't think there's anything spiritually wrong with being gay. And I'm nearly also certain that everyone here recognizes a trans person's right to exist.

What I'm personally unwilling to do is rewrite the language and ignore science and common sense to accommodate people's subjective realities. For me truth comes first, then compassion.

If a trans person changes their name, no problem. I will happily address them by their new name. If they change their "gender", and start making demands as to how they are addressed, things get a little slippery for me. Addressing someone by a new name and addressing someone by a new gender are entirely different things. One requires basic respect from me - which I'm happy to offer - but the other requires I turn my reality upside down to acknowledge things that are often fundamentally untrue.

I think it absolutely does matter how many genders there are. The universe does love variety, but we all have to be playing some version of the same game for the universe to remain coherent, otherwise we get nothing but chaos. Man/woman is one of our most fundamental truths; to take that and distort it to such a degree where some are even suggesting there are 50 plus genders is insanity...the type of insanity that could topple western civilization as we know it. But that would actually require an entirely different thread. Some immediately obvious issues involve trans people in sports, and trans people in bathrooms...but there are infinitely more.

I'm calling Elliot Page "her" because she's a female, not because I wish to purposefully disrespect. I understand she would be disrespected by that regardless of my intentions, and I'm afraid that's how it has to be. She can think whatever she pleases, and as an adult American, she is free to do so. But I am also free to disagree. Elliot Page has a vagina, female DNA and chromosomes, can give birth, and a whole host of other things that make her, undeniably, female.

You are likely thinking that trans is not about genitals, like you suggested above. But I would have to ask then: why do some trans people get "gender reassignment" surgery? Why do we have respected university professors now saying there is no such thing as biological sex? Why do trans people insist on using the bathrooms of people who have different genitals than them? Or playing sports with people with different genitals? It is, unfortunately, very much about genitals. You can't play fast and loose with ideas of sex and gender and not have it be about genitals, at least to some degree. It's just impossible

What's happened with trans is, it's so confusing and contradictory that no one can understand it; and those same people that don't understand it are asked to aggressively embrace and respect it, lest they be called "transphobes" and get tossed into the cancel bin.

[Bill Ryan]

why is it so wrong and scary letting our children choose and letting them know that they have a full freedom of choice and full love and support as to whatever they decide to be or what they discover that they might be.Caveat: most current members won't know you, or know you very well, and so none of this is personal. We have to assume by default that you're a pleasant, well-meaning person. Most Avalon members are!

But many might also feel it's rather alarming that you have that view and are eager to promote it. You're perfectly free to do so here, but I doubt you'll get much agreement. :)

My own view: it's not only wrong and scary, but also profoundly irresponsible.

Here's the question. I'd really like you to think about this.

A child choosing their own gender... aged 14? 12? 10? 8? 6? 4? Before they're judged mature enough to vote, legally have sex with an adult or drive a car, join the military, or maybe even leave kindergarten? Please let us know where you'd draw the line, and why.

It'd also be interesting to invite views from members here who are committed parents of real children, and (presumably) care deeply about their welfare.

One of the definitions of a child is that they're not an adult yet. They can't do life on their own very effectively. They don't have the experience to make irreversible decisions. (Many adults don't, either!)

But then I assume you're not a parent. If you were, is it possible your views might be a little different?

[iota]

Hello All,



i need to preface this with all due respect or something of the sort, because i promise you that it really is

ok ... so here's the thing

in the premise "live and let live"?
there is NO room to FORCE ANYONE to do ANYTHING or THINK anyway.

not because you're gay.
not because someone else is straight

this idea that ANYONE has THE RIGHT to MAKE anyone ~ anything? ...

that is NOT "discriminatory" it is Control/Domination FORCE
heck, by now i do not even grant my parents that right any more
so i can assure you

the ONLY person who will be determining what is an acceptable thought in MY brain?
WILL be ME
that is not up for discussion
and not asking permission

and i would truly hope that holds true for YOU
and for EVERYONE reading this
if not, the problem in "identity" goes way beyond "gender" issues ....

by a certain age, you have to get CLEAR on WHO you ARE
but it CANNOT be dependent on the agreement of others

you are FREE to change your mind
you are NOT free to ENFORCE that on another

i'm really sorry if this sounds harsh in any way
i would actually encourage you to take on this way of BEING
what others do or fail to do will be completely inconsequential if you do

and then you (or others) won't feel compelled
to FORCE others into agreement with you
play it anyway you like?
that is what is going on

that is what i'm responding to

:flower:


so many people are still so scared of breaking the old paradigm of a strictly defined only male or only female. wheres our souls and source might be genderless or multi gender anyway and the universe and other planets might have so many genders or none!
(and what about the indigenous north American cultures "third gender"?)

igniop, this holds true on ANY number of subjects, people ARE scared ...
that's just a fact of life ... and guess what?
They have a RIGHT to be. you are too or you would not be "concerned" about the issue or what people think

right now, on the political front?
i just raised the issue and asked why can't people just speak the truth?
the TRUTH igniop
is a SCARY issue for MILLIONS right now ...

if you thought fear was isolated to the issue that concerns you ...
let me assure you that fear has NO boundaries in its invasion
as to "why"? the reasons are as varied as the individuals who feel that feeling

just as you are asking to be allowed to feel AS you do?
gonna have to give the same to them ok?
its not ok to decide for ANYONE what they can or are allowed to "fear" or not


so many people are still so scared of breaking the old paradigm of a strictly defined only male or only female. wheres our souls and source might be genderless or multi gender anyway and the universe and other planets might have so many genders or none!
(and what about the indigenous north American cultures "third gender"?)

'
i don't think our souls "might" be .. i think they ARE
but that is just MY belief
an ancient book of scriptures does specifically say:

"Spirit is neither male nor female"
so there's agreement at least somewhere

but the spirit is not the issue at hand
the physical body is

if you were born with a penis
you or a cat or a dog
you were born a male

if with the other body part
you are a female

just speaking strictly facts

NOT FEELINGS
NOT 'identification'

the cool thing about facts is that they are facts

the thing about "feelings and identification" is that they are subjective and open to interpretation

feelings and identification lie in the personal arena and
NO ONE has the RIGHT to tell another
what they SHOULD or SHOULD not "feel"

so this is what that looks like:

annie gets to feel she is a boy
and that is NO ONE 's business BUT annie's

but annie does NOT get to tell anyone else HOW THEY MUST feel either?

respect ONLY works when it is mutual


some people here said they don't care at all and yet I already see two videos posted here in which they keep referring to him as a "her" and thus cancelling who he might truly believe that he is.

what? ... is the belief that fragile?

NO ONE is "given the power" TO cancel anyone's
they can ONLY cancel what THEY think
what is really going on here is a DEMAND for agreement

and if their BELIEF is SO fragile as to be wholly dependent on the agreement of others?

a.) must NOT be that strong

b.) there are other issues now

for one, this is planet earth, there are 7 billion of us here,
EACH one of us is SUPPOSED to have a VERY UNIQUE and INDIVIDUAL view point

ONE of the concepts i have directly TAUGHT for the last 20 years in the area of personal empowerment is:

NO ONE is born to be ANYONE's "Acceptable Version" of
[/B]
not mommy's
spouse's/ partner's
friend's
tearcher's
boss's
etc

you were born to be YOUR acceptable version of YOU
NO ONE else's
and you came here (earth) SPECIFICALLY to "get that"

you should think as YOU feel is correct for you
and allow for the fact that others
WITHOUT asking your permission or whether it is ok or not?

will too

see .. this is issue is NOT about acceptance
it is about
DEMAND
FORCE/CONTROL

saying: "because i'm special, i get to impose what i WANT on others"

this has nothing to do with "gender identification"
this has to do with bending others to your will
DEMANDING COMPLIANCE

for the record ... gay people count not just over 50% of my close personal friendships but of my two best friends? the one i've known since i was 17 IS gay

now how do i empower my gay friends?

there is absolutely NO WAY i allow them to "identify" as victim

we focus NOT ON FORCING others to .... anything

we focus on ourselves
being and remaining empowered
in spite of
irrespective of
the choices or actions of anyone else

my friends don't get to go around relinquishing their power in front of me
and then blame someone else for the choices THEY are making

i learned a very long time ago that i have absolutely NO power over the external
the only power i have is within

if i focus on FORCING others (the external)
invariably, i will lose
what power do i have over the choices that others make?

none

on the other hand if i focus on myself? (within)
how i respond
the significance (if any) that i will give to someone else's actions or words?
what power do i have there?

i have ALL the power

so that is where i support my friends remain empowered

i would not be helping them very much if i agreed with them that they were a victim
instead i help them see that they are NOT and put them back in touch with their inherent power

remember:
only YOU get to choose HOW you will feel

NO ONE else can make that choice for you
:flower:

and people in general could probably temper reactions to align with the way they would like to be treated ... as long it doesn't compromise who they are? wouldn't hurt at all ~ but karma HAS been known to sting on occasion
:heart:

[Patient]

why is it so wrong and scary letting our children choose and letting them know that they have a full freedom of choice and full love and support as to whatever they decide to be or what they discover that they might be.Caveat: most current members won't know you, or know you very well, and so none of this is personal. We have to assume by default that you're a pleasant, well-meaning person. Most Avalon members are!

But many might also feel it's rather alarming that you have that view and are eager to promote it. You're perfectly free to do so here, but I doubt you'll get much agreement. :)

My own view: it's not only wrong and scary, but also profoundly irresponsible.

Here's the question. I'd really like you to think about this.

A child choosing their own gender... aged 14? 12? 10? 8? 6? 4? Before they're judged mature enough to vote, legally have sex with an adult or drive a car, join the military, or maybe even leave kindergarten? Please let us know where you'd draw the line, and why.

It'd also be interesting to invite views from members here who are committed parents of real children, and (presumably) care deeply about their welfare.

One of the definitions of a child is that they're not an adult yet. They can't do life on their own very effectively. They don't have the experience to make irreversible decisions. (Many adults don't, either!)

But then I assume you're not a parent. If you were, is it possible your views might be a little different?

I would like to add a small thing here....(I am not asking for replies, only thought) try to remember back to when you were a little kid - how old were you when you could honestly understand the complete biological difference between the sexes.

[onawah]

To put this all in a more realistic perspective, I highly recommend listening to Dark Journalist's latest discussion with Catherine Austin Fitts at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo3lG1o4df4
...where starting at 34:22, D.J. talks about the pervasiveness of mind control, which has evolved to the extent now that there is an idea that civil rights constitutes the right of an 8 year old to choose his own gender.
To put that in a category of importance comparable to the real problems currently facing the world is patently ridiculous and proves what Fitts repeatedly posits, which is that most people are simply unable to comprehend the extent of the threat we are actually facing from the technocracy's agenda to take over the world and eliminate all personal freedom.
If you aren't familiar with D.J and C.A.F's work, that will probably not really be put in perspective for you unless you listen to the first 34 minutes first.
But for those who are familiar, it really needs no further explanation.
Something about "straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel" comes to mind...
(If you are not familiar with that adage, see: https://www.theproblemsite.com/ask/2016/01/straining-at-a-gnat-swallowing-a-camel )

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[onawah]

I'd say that might mean that you have some lifetimes as a male yet to come, Constance, if you remain on Earth.
But I think that if your soul was completely feminine, I doubt that you would have much insight into male thinking or behavior, and I don't really think that is the case...
Although of course, souls come here for Earth experiencing from many realms, so our original blueprints may not match at all.
Though the ground rules for engagement here may be unavoidable if we stay long enough.
I have found the Michael Teachings to be quite helpful in understanding what those rules might be.
https://www.michaelteachings.com/
I appreciate your insights as a parent--freedom does not come without some necessary structure.





Onawah, fascinating to hear you speak about your thoughts on souls and gender. I had the opportunity to see my soul 19 years ago and it wasn't androgenous or in any part masculine. It was completely feminine...

[Gemma13]

Gender identity is lunacy created by academics wanting to be immortalized because they coined a "NEW term/idea" - no different to a scientist wanting to find and name a never before seen butterfly or comet.  No different to the egotist who coined white fragility.  And let's not forget the barbaric psychologist and researcher, John Money, who coined gender identity and gender role.

Lunacy is extreme folly and eccentricity and it has successfully infiltrated and gained control of cultural spaces by demanding that everyone salute, praise and worship the folly or you will be humiliated, branded, and cast aside.

Gender identity politics are exploiting individuals who differ from the status quo (minorities) in sexual orientation and/or mannerisms and behaviours, to the point where people and groups are now addicted to the power bestowed upon them when they lay claim to being a marginalized victim.  One clear example is competition for the next letter in the alphabet along with numerous other illogical demands.

We have come a long way in fixing wrongful persecution of people preferring intimacy with a same sex partner and this activism should rightly continue.  The only add-ons required were for the world to now accept men dressing like women and behaving effeminately because that is their preference, and women dressing like men and behaving masculinely because that is their preference.

It would have been an easy transition to achieve on the back of the LGB success by just adding T to describe the above preferences because it casts a broad net of inclusivity; and biological anomalies and subsequent choices would have also benefited from keeping the activism mandate simple.

Biological males and females should have stayed in those biological lanes lobbying for behavioural and fashion rights and freedoms within the military, sporting industry, etc.  Society would have accepted and progressed far quicker because I do believe that deep down the majority don't actually give a damn about who you want to sleep with, what you want to wear, or whether you want to behave like Barbie or Ken.

But no, eccentric egotists had to take the activism into lunacy causing confusion, division and regression; and transgenders had to demand power and attention by wanting the right to jump over into opposite biological gender arenas.  This is an assault and psychological abuse of biological genders because egocentric whims are being used for political, manipulative, and financial reward.

Where are the "experts" helping people deal with mental health disorders arising from  psychological confusion and anxiety; fear of being humiliated and marginalized in social and work environments because of the confusion and anxiety; loss of loved ones hooked into gender identity cult behaviour; etc.

Oh, that's right, they're too busy basking in their moment of glory on the world stage and haven't noticed the phenomenal collateral damage they have created in the process.

[iota]

ok ... so i don't think its up to anyone to determine what is "right" for anyone else but themself ...

my issue is not with the "gender identification"
or sexual orientation

it is really presumptive and intrusive to involve one's self in the affairs of
what an adult does with another consenting adult in the privacy of their own bedroom

and i don't think anyone should have been asking for the approval of anyone else in the first place in these areas

truly NONE Of their business ...

the issue i have

is the INFRINGEMENT of someone's will upon another

anyone ...

for any reason ...

i also actively disassemble all claims that

"someone else is responsible for my feelings"
OR
"it is YOUR job to make me happy"

both are viruses
contaminating the sovereignty of each other

my conversation is more along the lines of:

"what the heck is wrong with you trying to FORCE everybody to "approve of you"?
what they like or dislike should barely register more than a blip in your awareness

and you can't go running to your sand box and crying every time somebody doesn't "Like you"

didn't you go through childhood?
NOBODY likes everybody

there are 7 billion people out there
and ALL of them like different things

at some point that just HAS to STOP being such a SURPRISE
much less a problem

something we ALL just have to "deal" with
it's just Life

learning to deal with this effectively is part of every human being's challenge"

and though the words may not be "gentle" and "sweet"?
it sure does put the power squarely back in THEIR hands where it belongs

[Bill Ryan]

the issue i have
is the INFRINGEMENT of someone's will upon another
Yes, this is the issue. Anyone can do anything they like with anyone else (with their consent!), in bed or anywhere else. :)

That's a private matter and isn't anyone else's concern. You don't even have to talk about it, let alone launch polemics and "social justice" campaigns.

But keep your hands (and ideas, and suggestions, and sexual influence) off the children. To do otherwise is a form of child abuse.

@igniop (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?9344-igniop), I hope you're not a teacher. Based on what you wrote (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113142-Actress-Ellen-Page-Is-Now-Actor-Elliot-Page&p=1394963&viewfull=1#post1394963), you're not safe to be one, or to have anything to do with children.

And I also hope you'll have the courage to reply to the various reactions to your post. To do otherwise is hit-and-run cowardice.

I rarely speak so strongly about almost anything here. I'm well-known for my patience and tolerance. But this kind of lunacy (and that's what it is) is dangerous and destructive.

This isn't "hate speech". I'm assuming you're a very pleasant, well-meaning person. If we had coffee together, I might like you a lot. But maybe you're not a person who's reached the point of thinking clearly about any of this at all.

[Agape]

I’ve got to understand through small number of friends really something about trans-gender experiences in the process of spiritual evolution. Something extraordinary that did not always give me sense but my understanding is adding, in those matters.

Caveat: it does not happen to everybody, on long path of self-understanding but to some people it does. Unless they are guided and kind of self isolated at that point, the way meditators of past did they get the full impact of this opening and transformation of their minds, sometimes bodies to another “selves”, in fact their virtual counterparts.

It’s rarely a smooth process -unless it happens under cognitive wisdom control- it’s mostly a “mess”. Some run into exotic or bad sexual innuendos in that period,
others start getting absurd feelings about their bodies,
the way they look to others and so forth.

Step away for a bit and realize something, as little children we all are basically “gender fluid” and we are capable of functioning as such any time in our life if necessary. Professionalism is gender fluid to be clean rather than stirred to particular side to draw attention to “who you are”, “how you look” and “whom you are missing” ,
on the other side of the mirror.

If doctor keep discriminating against your gender on surgery table you may end up screwed.

Many highly evolved humans are “gender fluid” on inside and depending on their levels of functioning simply maintain one gender image that is native to our birth.

Those who can’t control the energy at some point or do not understand real value of the transformation equals zero, may spend their lifetime in endless chatter who is more YIN and who is more YANG.

At the end of the day, the transformation collapses to zero, regardless 😅


So think how much suffering this costs, these “public stunts” and martyrdom on behalf of something so illusory and whether you feel like a boy today or a girl.


So much pain for nothing at all



🙏

[Agape]

On behalf of young children, there is no “one model that fits all”, no psychology cookbook that explains all about “your child”. Everyone is unique and grow up differently.

One fault that parents seem to repeat is “modeling” their kids to certain image or trying to which imposes subtle pressure on the individual whether they seem to cope with it or not, more likely they will seek freedom from that model and rebel against it for the rest of their lifetime.

Parents forcing kids the “right toys” have then to tolerate hysterical fits and tyranny in relationships and children will look upon them forever as “cruel creatures”.

In reality most young ones play with both trains, dolls and cards, without prejudice.

Many boys keep dolls and Teddy’s to teenage but out of their peers and parents view,

Some parents keep throwing kids toys out prematurely causing life long traumas.

Other parents keep dressing kids to impossible costumes and colors you hate at that time.

Most are “surprised” and disrespectful when children’s likes and habits change as if you were meant to stay the same for lifetime :)

There is nothing wrong with most children and how fast or slow do they grow up but the society should be certainly more caring and supportive to children and teenagers, respect individuality and give hand in the transformation process.

If we can’t do that they always end up in the street, in hands of predators and suffer the most.

It’s good to be compassionate and professional about it, not “emotional”. Our grown up emotions can be too strong, too overwhelming, too loaded.

It’s better not to be too emotional about facts
and let them know of dangers, seriously.

I know of parents who do not do that actually either because they’re uneducated or mentally disabled or out of character,
and it leads to many trials and life disasters ever after.



🦢

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

But keep your hands (and ideas, and suggestions, and sexual influence) off the children. To do otherwise is a form of child abuse.

This is the crux of the issue. It ALL about the children.

Gender dysphoria is quite real, and a quite natural (although rare) condition. And its source/cause is spiritual, exactly as Onawah posted. That's all there is to it.

What is completely unnatural is the shifting social and cultural paradigm, the one that plugs, pushes, advertises, publicizes, propagandizes, and markets gender politics. It seems to me what they're trying to do is force public perception – and its moral compass – to be dictated to by the powers that be, rather taking cues from the inner spiritual self (the conscience).


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JxdvOLdG_34/maxresdefault.jpg


The entire goal is to condition people to accept what they didn't accept before. If you brand something unacceptable as acceptable for long enough, and to as wide an audience as possible, they will slowly desensitize and quietly acquiesce. Think for example sex and violence on television: If you aired Game of Thrones to primetime audiences in 1970, or even 1990 for that matter, would they accept it? Not in a million years. But if you condition them gradually over 50 years...

Add social media to the mix, and strict social penalties (being cancelled) for refusing to accept, the masses acquiesce even more quickly than television.

The Overton Window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) has shifted radically over the last 50 years. The target today is children. It's not just their bodies they're sexualizing (or in very dark circles about the harnessing 'energies' - think ritual abuse), this is primarily about programming the minds of the young. This is all about the generations to come and the future 'they' are trying to create.

In twenty or thirty years today's kids will be the adults of this world. Its workers, its thinkers, its teachers. And they'll be having children of their own. If today's cultural engineering succeeds (and continues to succeed), where will their Overton Window be? Think of that world. What values will they be upholding...

Will pedophilia – as an example – be normal by then? Will adult/child marriages be accepted, supported, even exalted? I believe there are those who want to make it so.

Consider, that in the period of just a few years we have arrived in a place [or been shifted to a place] where having a mildly conservative opinion is considered, by some, to being virtually Hitler. This is how it works.

Just as our social and cultural present has shifted (in large part artificially, purposefully) from the social and cultural past, so will the future shift (further) away from our present.

tl;dr
Gender identity is one of the tools they exploit to shift the Overton Window.

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[igniop]

the issue i have
is the INFRINGEMENT of someone's will upon another
Yes, this is the issue. Anyone can do anything they like with anyone else (with their consent!), in bed or anywhere else. :)

That's a private matter and isn't anyone else's concern. You don't even have to talk about it, let alone launch polemics and "social justice" campaigns.

But keep your hands (and ideas, and suggestions, and sexual influence) off the children. To do otherwise is a form of child abuse.

@igniop (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?9344-igniop), I hope you're not a teacher. Based on what you wrote (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113142-Actress-Ellen-Page-Is-Now-Actor-Elliot-Page&p=1394963&viewfull=1#post1394963), you're not safe to be one, or to have anything to do with children.

And I also hope you'll have the courage to reply to the various reactions to your post. To do otherwise is hit-and-run cowardice.

I rarely speak so strongly about almost anything here. I'm well-known for my patience and tolerance. But this kind of lunacy (and that's what it is) is dangerous and destructive.

This isn't "hate speech". I'm assuming you're a very pleasant, well-meaning person. If we had coffee together, I might like you a lot. But maybe you're not a person who's reached the point of thinking clearly about any of this at all.



To be honest I kind of regret even posting what I did. not because I don't agree with what I said but because now I actually have to reply :blushing:

But I guess I'll have to eat this soup with everyone else now :ROFL:

and no I'm not a teacher, I don't have children and I don't work with children.

I only think that if your child comes to you one day and tells you that they feel like another gender that it should not be such a big issue. if a boy feels like they are genuinely a girl for example why not just let your child be who they wants to be and love them the same. it might be just a phase and it might not.

a person that feel like they are in the wrong body should not be an issue at any age as long as they get support and not hate. it should not be such a big scary thing.

of course I'm not talking about parents forcing their children to be something that they are not and shoving ideas down their throats (that is completely wrong!) I'm talking only about supporting and accepting our children if they choose to be something which might not be the norm.
I'm not talking about throwing ideas at children just listening to their hearts if they come forwards with such ideas!

I think we can all agree that any form of sexual abuse or influence is wrong!!
but we are not talking about sex. we are talking about other things (at least in my opinion) like gender identity, and I still fail to see what is so wrong with a boy deciding he is a girl or the other way around. thats all.(and twe should be accepting them as such. they cause us no harm).

one last thing since I haven't made myself clear maybe. I totally and honestly agree there is a big push for separation, division etc coming from the elites that are trying top push us down their timelines as was also mentioned before. unfortunately trans people are definitely being used as a part of this attempt(as well as black people). but I honestly think that we all need to find a balance while still accepting that whilte they are being used those people still totally exist and we need to somehow respect to them and show them love as well.

we need to find unity within our world not more separation. somehow. I really hope we will.

[iota]

all of the responses have been filled with remarkable insight

i tend to look for where there is an attempt to "muddy the waters"

in all of this, i just want to make sure that igniop is very CLEAR that most of the conversation (and backlash) is directed at an issue and NOT at him personally

he was just the messenger

it just happened to be a message that is not well received

nevertheless, the backlash remains FOR the message ~ NOT him

and i wouldn't want him to interpret ANY of the messages personally ....

to be CLEAR ... there are TWO issues being discussed here

1.) is the issue of gender identity, and the increasing alarm in the role that is playing in the lives of children

when it comes to children? society WILL and SHOULD have VERY strong opinions and a sense of responsibility towards their protection

so ... Igniop

please be CLEAR ... THAT is what you are reading here

you have a particular perspective that thinks all is ok on that front and therefore ok for the children too

most here do NOT

but in stating that, it is NOT the "issue" that is being "attacked"

the issue that is being attacked IS > ideologies imposed on the children

we go back to the SAME issue of INFRINGEMENT

in other words, these issues? when it comes to adults? yea ... sure .... whatever rocks your boat

but when you introduce children? WHAT you are hearing and SHOULD hear is a protest and concern about ANYONE "INDOCTRINATING" ~ teaching, programming, whatever word you want to use as depicting strong influence

on children

we care

and NO ONE has more influence than a parent ... most adults participating in this discussion? if they cared to examine some of their long held beliefs, perspectives, aversions should not be too surprised that even if they are "different" than that of their parents? it was SOURCED there

i know a great mom, and she is a great mom specifically because she had such a lousy one. who knows if without THAT influence? she wouldn't just have been a "normal" mom ... you see?

AND the thing about children? is that especially through age 6 or 7? you CAN pretty much "program" anything into them. Its a well known fact that the Catholic church has long asserted:

"give us a child til the age of 7 and we will have him for life"

but a child is DEVELOPING and part of childhood is TRYING things out
discovering what they like
AND
changing their minds

we've all known studious children, who then went full blown nerds, who got tired of that and went punk or "dark" and now are in Wall Street or a reverend somewhere

but they had the FREEDOM to change and explore

if you have SURGERY that's gonna take a bit more to "change" later ...

i don't know about you, but i was a totally different person at 10 than i was at 5, and then again at 13 than at 16 and by 18 i was sure i was "all done" and "all grown up" and boy was that funny at 23! and 27 to 33!!

but if my parents had "j;umped" on the first declaration of what i have "decided" today that i am?

and rushed to tell all their friends

and put me in front of a camera?

OMG

how the heck do i change my mind tomorrow?

and honestly, was gonna change my mind in an hour!

now some know ... ok ... no prob

no one needs to rush them to explore otherwise
no one needs to rush to cement them in place

how about we just let them be?

the MAIN issue that most have
and you should too
and i DEFINITELY do

is this:

someone somewhere decided to declare they were "out"

and didn't notice that a majority did NOT care
and some DID have an uproar but they're just like that
they can go into uproar when daylight savings time first happens and throws their whole schedule
they do that about a LOT of stuff ...

is it not possible to just ignore them?

and THAT is the crux of the issue


the people of this movement made it IMPOSSIBLE to ignore them

'they didn't just say: "i identify male/female"

and allow the rest of us to glance up and say:

"yea, cool ... whatever man" and go back to what we were doing

nooooooooooo ... it was "i identify male/female and by GOD you bloody well had BETTER approve of me"

they made THEIR issue?

OUR PROBLEM

VERY UNCOOL

and you'd best believe there WILL be a backlash

but it could have been about coloring the drinking water pukey green and

FORCING everyone to say: THAT IS AWESOME!" ~ OR ELSE!

its the implied threat
the lack of choice

a human being MUST be "free" to be happy!!

period

so my issue isn't FOR 'gender identity'
and my issue isn't AGAINST "gender identity'


my issue IS that IT IS NOT MY ISSUE

as fascinating as it is for those involved
can they please understand it holds slightly less fascination for those NOT involved
and even if they can't

can they understand the resentment in making THEIR feelings OUR problem?

don't take it personally
and DO NOT make it about THAT issue

this hold true in marriages and relationships

i tell divorced and remarried parents all the time

"DO NOT make your new husband's choice to be "happy" or not? your children's problem!"

they are adults and it isn't your child's responsibility to MAKE sure your new hubby is happy ok?

let's just talk straight about that

so you see?

choose what you want .... for YOU

but the minute you start IMPOSING on others?
don't be surprised they have a problem
and don't cry discrimination

they would have the SAME problem if you imposed LOUD Music on them at 2 am

NO ONE wants to be IMPOSED upon

not even you i'd imagine ....

:flower:

[iota]

the issue i have
is the INFRINGEMENT of someone's will upon another
Yes, this is the issue. Anyone can do anything they like with anyone else (with their consent!), in bed or anywhere else. :)

That's a private matter and isn't anyone else's concern. You don't even have to talk about it, let alone launch polemics and "social justice" campaigns.

But keep your hands (and ideas, and suggestions, and sexual influence) off the children. To do otherwise is a form of child abuse.

@igniop (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?9344-igniop), I hope you're not a teacher. Based on what you wrote (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113142-Actress-Ellen-Page-Is-Now-Actor-Elliot-Page&p=1394963&viewfull=1#post1394963), you're not safe to be one, or to have anything to do with children.

And I also hope you'll have the courage to reply to the various reactions to your post. To do otherwise is hit-and-run cowardice.

I rarely speak so strongly about almost anything here. I'm well-known for my patience and tolerance. But this kind of lunacy (and that's what it is) is dangerous and destructive.

This isn't "hate speech". I'm assuming you're a very pleasant, well-meaning person. If we had coffee together, I might like you a lot. But maybe you're not a person who's reached the point of thinking clearly about any of this at all.



To be honest I kind of regret even posting what I did. not because I don't agree with what I said but because now I actually have to reply :blushing:

But I guess I'll have to eat this soup with everyone else now :ROFL:

and no I'm not a teacher, I don't have children and I don't work with children.

I only think that if your child comes to you one day and tells you that they feel like another gender that it should not be such a big issue. if a boy feels like they are genuinely a girl for example why not just let your child be who they wants to be and love them the same. it might be just a phase and it might not.

a person that feel like they are in the wrong body should not be an issue at any age as long as they get support and not hate. it should not be such a big scary thing.

of course I'm not talking about parents forcing their children to be something that they are not and shoving ideas down their throats (that is completely wrong!) I'm talking only about supporting and accepting our children if they choose to be something which might not be the norm.
I'm not talking about throwing ideas at children just listening to their hearts if they come forwards with such ideas!

I think we can all agree that any form of sexual abuse or influence is wrong!!

but we are not talking about sex. we are talking about other things (at least in my opinion) like gender identity, and I still fail to see what is so wrong with a boy deciding he is a girl or the other way around. thats all.(and twe should be accepting them as such. they cause us no harm).

one last thing since I haven't made myself clear maybe. I totally and honestly agree there is a big push for separation, division etc coming from the elites that are trying top push us down their timelines as was also mentioned before. unfortunately trans people are definitely being used as a part of this attempt(as well as black people). but I honestly think that we all need to find a balance while still accepting that whilte they are being used those people still totally exist and we need to somehow respect to them and show them love as well.

we need to find unity within our world not more separation. somehow. I really hope we will.Igniop, so sorry, seems we were both posting at the same time ...

yes .. agree with you very much ... just different words is all ...



I'm not talking about throwing ideas at children just listening to their hearts if they come forwards with such ideas!

so LOOVE this!! :heart::heart::heart:



and I still fail to see what is so wrong with a boy deciding he is a girl or the other way around. thats all.(and twe should be accepting them as such. they cause us no harm).

NOTHING wrong and a parent would do psychological harm to give their child the idea that anything about them is NOT acceptable

just wanting to say that in that acceptance? let there be room for change, instead of locking them into an identity that they might have moved away from later

after all, plenty of "straight" children ended up gay adults, right?


totally and honestly agree there is a big push for separation, division etc coming from the elites that are trying top push us down their timelines as was also mentioned before. unfortunately trans people are definitely being used as a part of this attempt(as well as black people).

BINGO .. and i think even the ones that are not "woke" sense that somehow they are being manipulated into larger schemes than the way it is being presented .. and there is some of the resentment without even knowing where it came from and why?


I kind of regret even posting what I did. not because I don't agree with what I said but because now I actually have to reply :blushing:

but i LOVED your reply!! was so thoughtful and insightful!! please reply or post more!! ... you did good here!!

allowed expression on all fronts and even if disagreement is discovered? it is always good to connect with one's beliefs

i really do hope we will hear more from you and thank you!

:flower: :heart: :flower:

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[palehorse]

Maybe Ellen Page has always been a hermaphrodite and was shy to assume that, now s/he is both finally. lol
I really don't care about sexual orientation of anyone, do as you please and respect others in order to be respected.

[sunwings]

A close friend of mine had two boys and unluckily got a third boy! She has been a nursery teacher for 15 years and is used to children's weird traits. The boy when he was around two said he was not a boy because he was a girl. She let him dress up as a girl for fun but with two older brothers playing with guns and cars all day, it was not a neutral home environment. However, the boy never stopped fighting his parents, he would not let them cut his hair, he refused to wear boys clothes and hated when people called him a boy in the street.

Age four he is now officially a Girl! I can confidently say the parents did not push it on her. Buying girls clothes is not cheap. I have spent time with her and she does have a feminine energy. She plays very well with my daughter.

Is still do not think it is right, but I am willing to watch this space and see first hand what happens in this case.

[Mike]

A close friend of mine had two boys and unluckily got a third boy! She has been a nursery teacher for 15 years and is used to children's weird traits. The boy when he was around two said he was not a boy because he was a girl. She let him dress up as a girl for fun but with two older brothers playing with guns and cars all day, it was not a neutral home environment. However, the boy never stopped fighting his parents, he would not let them cut his hair, he refused to wear boys clothes and hated when people called him a boy in the street.

Age four he is now officially a boy! I can confidently say the parents did not push it on him. Buying girls clothes is not cheap. I have spent time with him and he does have a feminine energy. She plays very well with my daughter.

Is still do not think it is right, but I am willing to watch this space and see first hand what happens in this case.


Hi Sunwings, I think all that is perfectly ok. Maybe the boy is trans. That's cool. But then again, maybe he's gay. Or, just maybe, he's straight and it'll become more evident as the years pass.

That's just the thing, isn't it? We shouldn't be rushing to make dramatic and unconventional assumptions about a child's sexuality...because he or she is...well...only a child. My 2 cents.

If I had a son, I would encourage him to do male activities. Rough and tumble play, for example, is documented as being not only a healthy but vital part of a young boy's upbringing.

He would wear traditionally male clothes as well. This hypothetical household would not be a democracy LOL. He would wear male clothes and do traditionally male things, not because female things are inherently bad but because as a male he should be acting like one. I abhor this notion that parents should somehow remain neutral and sort of hope for the best. That has the potential to be hugely damaging to a young boy or girl.

However, if this hypothetical son of mine stubbornly insisted on playing with dolls and wearing girl's clothing, and this feminine predilection continued into his early and mid-teen years, then that would be a different story. I would back off and give him the freedom to explore that. And I wouldn't have the slightest issue with it. It's perfectly ok to be trans or gay or whatever, just like it's perfectly ok to be straight...so long as that discovery is organic and not being put upon someone by anything agenda driven

[TomKat]

Page's IMDB bio: note the pronoun usage. I think it's fitting that it refers to itself as "they" because there's probably more than one soul claiming that body.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0680983/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

Born February 21, 1987 in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Birth Name Ellen Grace Philpotts-Page
Nicknames The Tiny Canadian
Height 5' 1" (1.55 m)
Mini Bio (1)

Elliot Page was born in Halifax, Nova Scotia to Martha Philpotts, a teacher, and Dennis Page, a graphic designer. Page wanted to start acting at an early age and attended the Neptune Theater School. They began their career at the age of 10 on the award-winning television series Pit Pony (1999), for which they received a Gemini nomination and a Young Artist Awards nomination. Later, Page appeared in Marion Bridge (2002), which won the award for Best Canadian First Feature at the Toronto International Film Festival. They won a Gemini Award for their role of Lilith in the first season of ReGenesis (2004), a one-hour drama for TMN/Movie Central, and for the cable feature, Mrs. Ashboro's Cat (2004), for Best Performance in a Children's or Youth Program or Series. In addition, Page appeared in the cult hit TV series Trailer Park Boys (2001).

As the lead in David Slade's Hard Candy (2005), which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival, Page garnered much praise for their tour de force performance as a 14-year-old who meets a 30-year-old photographer on the Internet and then looks to expose him as pedophile. Films that followed included the title role of Bruce McDonald's The Tracey Fragments (2007); An American Crime (2007), also starring Catherine Keener; and the third installation of the X-Men franchise, X-Men: The Last Stand (2006), where Page played Kitty Pryde.

With their breakout role in Jason Reitman's hit comedy Juno (2007), about an offbeat teenager who finds themselves unexpectedly pregnant, Page received Academy Award, BAFTA, Golden Globe and SAG Best Actress nominations, and won the Independent Spirit Award for their performance. They followed up that turn with the lead in Drew Barrymore's directorial debut, the roller-derby comedy-drama Whip It (2009), Christopher Nolan's psychological thriller Inception (2010), the independent film Peacock (2010), and the dark comedy Super (2010), opposite Rainn Wilson and Liv Tyler.

Page co-starred alongside Jesse Eisenberg, Alison Pill, Alec Baldwin, and Greta Gerwig in the Woody Allen ensemble comedy To Rome With Love (2012), and appeared in the thriller The East (2013), a story centered on a contract worker tasked with infiltrating an anarchist group, only to find themselves falling for its leader.

- IMDb Mini Biography By: Janet Petch

[amor]

Hey, Doris! The very best kept secret: Sex between mature, loving, caring people who know what they are doing and are "on the same wavelength," is a rocket ship to love; and is seldom achieved on short acquaintance.