Commented On My Sister's FB Page - Whoops

[Mike]

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[pueblo]

https://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/4901840.jpg

[Innocent Warrior]

Correct me if I’m wrong. That sister has done well for herself, successful in some form, she’s mainstream and she fits in. I was guessing that before I got to the part about her comment on sources.

I’m thinking that for many mainstreamers it doesn’t occur to them to question the narrative until they question the source, and that doesn’t happen until life causes them to feel apart from the crowed in some major way.

Necessity is required to force one to think critically for themselves, since we’re conditioned throughout childhood not to. Sure, they tell us we should, while simultaneously drilling it into us that to thrive is to be with the crowd.

I think the issue here, Mike, is trust, without the understanding of the importance of critical thinking. Trusting peers blinds us to the point where absurdities fly under the radar undetected, while causing anyone with opposing views to appear as absurd as they actually are, regardless of content. It’s an insidious process, that’s important.

Then there’s elements like desensitisation etc. at play as well. My son and I were at my sister’s and they had the TV on. We don’t watch TV. There was one of those reality talent shows on. The crowd was just screens with faces of people watching from home, coz COVID. It looked just like that episode of Black Mirror, one of those episodes that was so absurd that when I watched it I thought oh that will never happen. It’s lunacy, in what world would that actually be a thing. But there it was but what really struck me at that moment was the huge difference in our reactions. My sister and her partner were used to it, they’d seen it plenty of times before. They sat there and watched, faces blank and oblivious to the insanity of it, while my son and I, unable to contain our horror, freaked out at how another Black Mirror scene was now real life.

Theres a whole lot of elements at play going into that situation that really bind people like your sister. Icke hit the nail on the head when he pinpointed the problem; acquiescence. It’s not that difficult to understand, it’s just that we underestimate the effectiveness of social engineering.

[Gemma13]

Baffles me too Mike.

My older brother is cool though. He knows I spend a lot of time digging into current affairs so when he spouts off something mainstreamee and I offer another perspective, backed up with evidence, he listens without bias and when he analyses it common sense kicks in and does most of the work.  The comments your sister made and your response are a good example of how that works for us and others in my family; different result of course.

Sadly though it doesn't work for two of my most dearest family members who won't even extend a courtesy to engage and listen, let alone debate.  They've swallowed mainstream hook, line and sinker.  I'm apparently crazy and dangerous for their mental health so they think cancelling me out of their lives is their safest option.

Extracted points from this article sum up how they've been programmed to think.



Scepticism is now routinely portrayed as dangerous, something to be quashed lest we all suffer.  [...]

Of course, today’s sceptics are not accused of obscenity or moral corruption. No, they are accused of ‘denialism’. This is their evil deed, their heresy. By categorising scepticism as denialism, one is attributing malign intent to the exercise of scepticism. The sceptic is therefore not questioning or interrogating an establishment position; rather, he or she is denying the truth of the establishment position. [...]

Today’s deniers are not treated as sinners to be burnt at the stake. Instead they are often treated as mentally diseased individuals, to be locked up away from mainstream debate, while they await treatment. Indeed, this is one of the distinctive features of contemporary anti-sceptical thinking: the psychologisation of the perpetrators of denialism. Sceptics are not simply wrong; they are also ill. 


https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/08/we-need-scepticism-more-than-ever/

I think engaging with people who have rock solid bias that prevents them from even looking at evidence that threatens their narrative is the killer in this global dilemma.  And that's what confounds me the most.

You would think because this movement of people have "off the charts arrogance that their facts are indisputable" they would love to take a peek at the crazies facts just to say, "See, I was right.  You're a lunatic".  But it's looking more and more like hell will freeze over before they do.

[Apulu]

Innocent warrior is right there I think. Judging by your post I'm sure you probably know all this already Mike - hopefully the above and this all will assure you that people have not gone completely insane. They already were insane. And so, probably, are we 🙂

It's basically plain double think isn't it? The ability to hold a fully formed belief in one's head whilst at the same time being confronted with the blatant impossibility of the truth of it. We humans are good at that.

I had a similar kind of experience to yours recently. It has to do with the wearing or not of facemasks.

I'd had a few good political sort of conversations with the boyfriend of someone I live with. We in this household, including him, are on a whatsapp group, and suddenly someone posted a study basically saying 'facemasks work'. There was a new method of measuring aerosols being used in the study and it was all very sciency and official.

I pointed out in a message that just because a mask can be proven to prevent a certain volume of aerosols and disease particles from pentrating it, that does NOT mean, necessarily, that we should use blanket measures on the general populace to force everyone to use them. There's good evidence and studies that show that doing that could actually make the risk of transmission even worse I said.

I brought it up with the poster of the study in person, not wanting to cause a rift from this potentially very devisive exchange. "Show me the studies" he said flatly.

Ok I'll give this a go I thought. I posted a link to a couple of studies illustrating what I was saying. Immediately, the other guy, the one that I'd had some really good political type discussions with, weighed in and said "Check your sources. The dude who started that website is a right wing mental case and he's a eugenicist".

Oh flipping great I thought. Now everyone on the WhatsApp group thinks I'm philosophically in bed with right wing eugenicist mental cases (They probably did not think that. Not most of them.)

Ok, I said, I'm not actually interested in what this the guy is into - I'm just pointing at the studies here, and perhaps the specific argument he's making. I did a quick internet search, found some more scientific, peer reviewed studies, and said here: here's ten more studies to look at concluding similar things.

Same reaction again. "Again, look at your sources. That site is run by political extremists from Belgium who..." blah blah blah.

Again, I said, I'm just pointing to the scientific studies here. Just the studies, not at whoever put the studies on the same page.

No response. I said in person let's just forget it, as I really didn't want any kind of divide forming on this. We have to live together, after all. There hasn't been an issue since.

I was amazed at that. Really smart guy. Completely ignored anything to do with the argument and found a commonly used way to discredit the whole idea. Gemma13 your post above illustrates all of that perfectly

I watched how strongly entrenched in fear this guy's reaction was. Fear of being being socially associated with crazy people (the websites not me hopefully, but kind of me as well). Fear of the virus itself. Fear of many things probably.

And I watched my own fear in the situation. It was quite a hard one to take. I didn't want to be demonised as a dangerous lunatic when I thought I was being more rational than these people were. Hopefully this exchange has made me less like that, because it took some guts to say what I felt I had to say, and then at the point when the situation seemed impossible, I backed off. Hopefully that was the right thing to do.

Hopefully we all benefited.

[BoR]

Correct me if I’m wrong. That sister has done well for herself, successful in some form, she’s mainstream and she fits in. I was guessing that before I got to the part about her comment on sources.

I’m thinking that for many mainstreamers it doesn’t occur to them to question the narrative until they question the source, and that doesn’t happen until life causes them to feel apart from the crowed in some major way.

Necessity is required to force one to think critically for themselves, since we’re conditioned throughout childhood not to. Sure, they tell us we should, while simultaneously drilling it into us that to thrive is to be with the crowd.

I think the issue here, Mike, is trust, without the understanding of the importance of critical thinking. Trusting peers blinds us to the point where absurdities fly under the radar undetected, while causing anyone with opposing views to appear as absurd as they actually are, regardless of content. It’s an insidious process, that’s important.

Then there’s elements like desensitisation etc. at play as well. My son and I were at my sister’s and they had the TV on. We don’t watch TV. There was one of those reality talent shows on. The crowd was just screens with faces of people watching from home, coz COVID. It looked just like that episode of Black Mirror, one of those episodes that was so absurd that when I watched it I thought oh that will never happen. It’s lunacy, in what world would that actually be a thing. But there it was but what really struck me at that moment was the huge difference in our reactions. My sister and her partner were used to it, they’d seen it plenty of times before. They sat there and watched, faces blank and oblivious to the insanity of it, while my son and I, unable to contain our horror, freaked out at how another Black Mirror scene was now real life.

Theres a whole lot of elements at play going into that situation that really bind people like your sister. Icke hit the nail on the head when he pinpointed the problem; acquiescence. It’s not that difficult to understand, it’s just that we underestimate the effectiveness of social engineering.

This analysis is so spot on, I feel like printing it and hanging it on the wall!

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Baffles me too Mike.

My older brother is cool though. He knows I spend a lot of time digging into current affairs so when he spouts off something mainstreamee and I offer another perspective, backed up with evidence, he listens without bias and when he analyses it common sense kicks in and does most of the work.  The comments your sister made and your response are a good example of how that works for us and others in my family; different result of course.

Sadly though it doesn't work for two of my most dearest family members who won't even extend a courtesy to engage and listen, let alone debate.  They've swallowed mainstream hook, line and sinker.  I'm apparently crazy and dangerous for their mental health so they think cancelling me out of their lives is their safest option.

Extracted points from this article sum up how they've been programmed to think.



Scepticism is now routinely portrayed as dangerous, something to be quashed lest we all suffer.  [...]

Of course, today’s sceptics are not accused of obscenity or moral corruption. No, they are accused of ‘denialism’. This is their evil deed, their heresy. By categorising scepticism as denialism, one is attributing malign intent to the exercise of scepticism. The sceptic is therefore not questioning or interrogating an establishment position; rather, he or she is denying the truth of the establishment position. [...]

Today’s deniers are not treated as sinners to be burnt at the stake. Instead they are often treated as mentally diseased individuals, to be locked up away from mainstream debate, while they await treatment. Indeed, this is one of the distinctive features of contemporary anti-sceptical thinking: the psychologisation of the perpetrators of denialism. Sceptics are not simply wrong; they are also ill. 


https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/08/we-need-scepticism-more-than-ever/

I think engaging with people who have rock solid bias that prevents them from even looking at evidence that threatens their narrative is the killer in this global dilemma.  And that's what confounds me the most.

You would think because this movement of people have "off the charts arrogance that their facts are indisputable" they would love to take a peek at the crazies facts just to say, "See, I was right.  You're a lunatic".  But it's looking more and more like hell will freeze over before they do.

That's because deep inside they fear they'll be proven wrong.

[RunningDeer]

I’ve given up offering another POV. I slip from time to time with one of my brothers because he’s slowwwwwly coming around.

June, 2018 my sister and I met for lunch. She asked, “What do you think about that misogynistic, pedophile Trump?” I said it’s clear where you stand. It’s best we don’t talk politics. She got so loud and ugly that the server came over to ask if everything was alright. I paid her, left my sister and hardly touched lunch at the table. That was the last time I saw her. It was the last straw. She had used the same tactics twice before out in public.

My sister is a big TV watcher. Here’s a repost(s) from mountain_jim. The first one says it all as to why people like my sister are indoctrinate and hypnotized.



https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1348438167167393792?s=20

1348438167167393792
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1348488262210498560?s=20

1348488262210498560

https://twitter.com/pnjaban/status/1348072197806428160?s=20

1348072197806428160

[raregem]

I’ve given up offering another POV. I slip from time to time with one of my brothers because he’s slowwwwwly coming around.

June, 2018 my sister and I met for lunch. She asked, “What do you think about that misogynistic, pedophile Trump?” I said it’s clear where you stand. It’s best we don’t talk politics. She got so loud and ugly that the server came over to ask if everything was alright. I paid her, left my sister and hardly touched lunch at the table. That was the last time I saw her. It was the last straw. She had used the same tactics twice before out in public.

My sister is a big TV watcher. Here’s a repost(s) from mountain_jim. The first one says it all as to why people like my sister are indoctrinate and hypnotized.


https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1348438167167393792?s=20

1348438167167393792
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1348488262210498560?s=20

1348488262210498560

I've seen the wrath often and I cannot understand the "my way or the highway" when discussing Trump as a positive to our society and world. This went on in the first round with Clinton and now with Biden who could hardly speak coherently. I truly am dumbfounded. This is America, home of the free (speech) and the brave who gave their lives for us to openly have a difference of opinion. I have taken note these people also watch the news on t.v..I could not get a word in to ask them to look at the pedo possibility and other treasonous crimes. They are loud and all knowing when talking politics. I wondered if violence was next from people I had never known to be violent.

[Chris Gilbert]

I readily understand the frustration Mike. There are countless times over the past couple years that I've had to hold my tongue around friends/relatives outside Avalon. While I do now consider the Trump train a dead end, the Antifa crowd that has drunk the Critical Theory Kool aid is in many respects their mirror reflection, and they really have no right to cast stones when their own riots caused similar damage for months on end.

[SilentFeathers]

Then why are so many people thinking like my sister? I simply can't fathom it. How could anyone not only forgive 6 months of rioting,looting, arson, and murder under the banner of "civil rights", but also aggressively condemn the recent events in DC without feeling like an enormous hypocrite?

Someone please help me understand this

Sorry to hear this is happening with your sister, I have also been through similar situations with life long friends and a few family members. Sadly, I have severed all contact with several people I was close to over the last 3 or 4 years as I do not have the will & patience in dealing with extreme ignorance and hypocrisy.

Now I see this "friction" happening everywhere and have realized there really is no escaping it, I can only try to maintain some sense of distance from these types of people and futile conversations/interactions. I live in a small mountain town that is mostly conservative in population but am even seeing extreme ignorance and hypocrisy rear it's ugly head and cause division here to.

This strange split in reality and division will continue to escalate until it reaches some type of breaking point, which I am pretty certain will be rather catastrophic and damaging to the human family.

Personally I see what we are witnessing with behavior causing extreme division and outrageous belief systems defying reality to be liken to the Salem Witch Hunt, Spanish Inquisition, Hitler's Germany, etc etc etc.....there really is nothing new under the Sun. Humanity has a weird way of repeating history to some degree or another. Our DNA must have something corrupted in it which causes humanity to go through cycles of hatred and slaughter.

[samildamach]

I've been giving this some thought lately Mike as we're all seeing the same thing.
People entrenched in thought patterns, even when ample evidence shows otherwise.Are there several types of brain structure where hypnotism ,suggestion and other kinds of manipulation are more difficult.
Is it spiritual old souls warding of bs.i remember an old english teacher giving a lesson on advertising tricks and thats always stuck with me to question everything that comes through the screen as a manipulation.
My own family are very open my younger brother went to Oxford, taught in Harvard and currently resides at Dundee uni as head of Scottish culture(his grammer is just a little better than mine lol).I was wondering if life experience, friends we keep it just plain disbelief in everything or a questioning mind which brings us to Avalon?

[Brigantia]

It's even worse in the UK where, unless you know where to look, the only news outlets are the MSM who are largely Left-leaning and think that Trump is evil incarnate.

A work colleague who is only a passing acquaintance asked me last Thursday, "What do you think of that idiot Trump?". Quite a revelation of bias there... also not very courteous as we have always had a general rule in this country that it is not polite to discuss religion, money or politics in the pub, or more widely with people that you hardly know.

I managed to sidestep it by not engaging with "Don't know, I haven't been following it much" and got on with my work.

[Jayke]

I knew she was upset. I didn't believe the text for a second. But what I kept getting caught on was the word "sources". Nothing I said required any exotic sources. I just knew that stuff on the strength of being alive. Anyone watching their local news would know that stuff. Common knowledge, right?

Then why are so many people thinking like my sister? I simply can't fathom it. How could anyone not only forgive 6 months of rioting,looting, arson, and murder under the banner of "civil rights", but also aggressively condemn the recent events in DC without feeling like an enormous hypocrite?

Someone please help me understand this

You know, I was so puzzled by that phenomenon I ended up writing a book on the topic.
Subconscious Decoded (https://static.wixstatic.com/ugd/d910e6_fbbf336b0e9d4484baafb10d3d8107ee.pdf)

On page 179 I referred to Ian McGilchrists ‘porcupine and the monkey syllogism test’, which you might find as fascinating as I did:

========



There’s actually a magnificent book by Iain Mcgilchrist called ‘The Master and his Emissary,’ which outlines dozens of fascinating neuroscience studies demonstrating how different areas of the brain can shape and distort a persons personality.

One such study is called ‘the porcupine and the monkey syllogism test.’ This is where subjects had various parts of the brain temporarily inhibited via electroconvulsive therapy, after which they’d be shown a syllogism and had to decide if the statement on the third line was true or false based on the logic and reasoning of the two statements that come before it.

An example of the syllogism used is:

All monkeys climb trees.

The porcupine is a monkey.

Therefore porcupines climb trees.

In their normal state, without any electroconvulsive therapy, the subjects were rational and reasonable in their logic, saying things like “A porcupine is not a monkey, so it isn’t true." Once the right hemisphere is taken offline however and the subjects process the statements exclusively through the logic of the left hemisphere, their answers became much more illogical, declaring that the statement was in fact true with the conversations taking an interesting twist, they said things like:

- “Yes, it’s true.”
 - “But you know the porcupine isn’t a monkey, don’t you?”
 - “Yes, I know, but it’s still true.”
 - “Why?”
 - “Because it’s written here on this piece of paper.”

It happened time and time again, with different subjects and different syllogisms. They asserted it’s true because “it’s there on the paper.”

This study sums up how truth works according to the left hemisphere of the brain. The left frontal lobe finds truth in symbolic representations of reality rather than in reality itself.

It can be difficult to have a reasonable and logical conversation with these people because they’ll always place more value in the false authority of abstract words written on a piece of paper than they do in basic, everyday common sense.
=======

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I'm absolutely 100% in the same boat. My answer, the only answer I've been able to reach is just stop engaging with family, friends, all loved ones on any topics 'conspiratorial' in nature. I've done my best to keep discourse alive with an opposing voice, but it's been a waste of time. Except for one friend they are all, as Mike says, entrenched. Entrenched by whatever that glowing square in the corner of the living room is telling them. If the television news tells them up is down and down is up, then that is true, and any other opinion (i.e. mine) is not simply wrong but dangerous.

I have therefore totally disengaged with them on these matters. The last straw was the election. How wrong you were, they said. Orange man bad, now orange man gone. Hurrrah! Oh and then the vaccine. My parents, in their eighties, have already had it. They were falling over themselves to get it no matter what I said to try and dissuade them. It's wonderful, they said. A miracle. They paid absolutely no heed to my gentle advice - no crazy talk, just words of caution. Read some articles, do some research, wait a while... Waste of time. My mother said she felt it was her civic duty to get it immediately.

If all the thoughts of people are the result of their programming, it becomes crystal clear (to me) that they're not really thinkers any more. They're 'programs'. Why even attempt changing the mind of a program? All you will receive is an automated response.

That doesn't mean free thinkers are necessarily right. We can be right and wrong about many things. But if we're exercising independent thought it doesn't really matter. Without offset, without counterbalance, equilibrium is impossible. Without disagreement, agreement itself means nothing, and therefore truth means nothing. As humans we need the freedom to differ, and the freedom to err, in order to learn. To learn anything! Without that freedom we cease to be human.

tl;dr
The watchword today for seemingly all things is diversity. It's more important than anything else according to that glowing square in the corner of the living room. Isn't it funny then that the only thing diversity doesn't apply to is OPINION!

[RunningDeer]

You know, I was so puzzled by that phenomenon I ended up writing a book on the topic.
Subconscious Decoded (https://static.wixstatic.com/ugd/d910e6_fbbf336b0e9d4484baafb10d3d8107ee.pdf)
Way cool.
http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/smilies/thank-you-pole.gifSteve.

[avid]

It's even worse in the UK where, unless you know where to look, the only news outlets are the MSM who are largely Left-leaning and think that Trump is evil incarnate.

A work colleague who is only a passing acquaintance asked me last Thursday, "What do you think of that idiot Trump?". Quite a revelation of bias there... also not very courteous as we have always had a general rule in this country that it is not polite to discuss religion, money or politics in the pub, or more widely with people that you hardly know.

I managed to sidestep it by not engaging with "Don't know, I haven't been following it much" and got on with my work.

After watching derisive stupid videos of gloating ignorant folk posting anti-trump crap lately, I snapped.
Remonstration by accusing them of lack of proof by research, and being susceptible to being the equivalent of sheep, and being shocked at their lack of individual judgement disappointed me and many others who fought for our freedoms in the last century, who sacrificed for them and are now being trashed by those who do not have our well-being in their cold, communistic hearts... There has been a guilty silence, and have not been unfriended once. 🤞🤞

[Brigantia]

After watching derisive stupid videos of gloating ignorant folk posting anti-trump crap lately, I snapped.
Remonstration by accusing them of lack of proof by research, and being susceptible to being the equivalent of sheep, and being shocked at their lack of individual judgement disappointed me and many others who fought for our freedoms in the last century, who sacrificed for them and are now being trashed by those who do not have our well-being in their cold, communistic hearts... There has been a guilty silence, and have not been unfriended once. 🤞🤞

Good on you!:clapping: :happythumbsup:

That's not really an option for me at work though; I'm only seconded there at the mo, my regular job will probably vanish this spring and I would like to be kept on with what I'm now doing permanently. So, I need to keep cordial relations with my colleagues; maybe if I'm taken on permanently, I'll tell it as it is.

I have worked wonders on my best friend though who was believing everything in the MSM and she has seen the light.

[samildamach]

It's just not easy to not engage with family on what everybody else considers conspiracy.
How are you going to live with yourself for not warning of the dangers in a vacine,the effects on mental health from lock downs?

[Blastolabs]

I too have really lost my temper and snapped a few times in the past couple days while discussing the vaccine and the election.



This is not my normal personality at all.

I do understand that I could be wrong, which would mean there is not a shift towards the light that so many have been feeling. I find it very hard to believe that any of the people behind Trump right now would actually consider helping him steal an election he did not win for example.

Its all kind of overwhelming but I will try to be more calm, yelling at them is not gonna help, although I will admit I've stopped trying to explain to people my belief that there is not enough information to say available to judge the safety of the vaccines.

I guess the indoctrination runs far deeper than I have new?

Or perhaps I have already gone through all the sadness and anger that comes along with realizing sociopaths run the world...

Some one project Avalon wrote "Those who must silence others cannot be innocent." and those words really stuck with me.

I'm not sure who it was but thank you!!!

I'm fairly new here and I must say had I not found this community before all this went into full swing I would feel much more alone in the world.

love you all,

[Jad]

For most people being right is more important than the truth itself. At first I thought it was my duty to try to wake up family and friends. My family didn’t mind as long as I didn’t point out the contradictions in their religious beliefs. My friends think that I consider everything a conspiracy and that I need to show some trust in the system cause it got us to the “peak of human civilization”. Then it hit me: who am I to try to tell people how to think? We are all on our individual journeys and no matter how much love and care we have for family and friends, we simply need to let them be. I know this will sound like a cliché, but changing ourselves internally will help everyone around us way much more than just simply trying to change their minds about something they believe in.

[onawah]

The West Coast US has a completely different mindset than anywhere else I've experienced.
I can't speak to other countries, but I've lived on the East Coast, West Coast and in between, and when I moved from the East Coast to CA. in '72, I experienced a kind of culture shock that completely floored me.
It's almost like there's something in the air or water that puts a spell on people.
It's not only mesmerizing, it's addictive.
Like some kind of mind-numbing mist that wafts its way up the coast from Hollywood, making it harder and harder to distinguish reality from wishful thinking.

I lived there for 20 years and always had a love/hate relationship with the West Coast state of mind, but I felt vastly relieved when I finally left.
It just never felt real to me, though there were times I fervently wished it did, so that I could just finally relax.

My dearest friends there are still locked into it for the most part as far as I can tell, but may be waking up slowly just a little bit.
I don't engage in debates, but I regularly send them articles about the dangers of vaccines, the one subject about which I cannot remain silent (but which they don't respond to).
And I post the most revealing articles I can find on an array of subjects on my Facebook page (though I normally only hear back from those who agree with me, and none of them are living on the West Coast...)

It only seems to cause more division to confront the madness face to face, though perhaps I just lack the necessary skill or patience.
But for my own peace of mind, I can't remain silent either.
I regularly post what rings true to me on FB, which provides me an outlet for those feelings that tell me I have to at least try.
Other venues like Parler might be better, but FB is still where the people are who need to hear alternative views.
No one is completely right or wrong, though quibbling about details hardly helps either.

Keeping some love, compassion and understanding in our hearts may be the best thing we can do in the face of so much division.
And finding whatever constructive things we can do that we enjoy to improve our lives and share that with others who are open to it. :heart::handshake:

Though I don't recommend turning our backs to the controversy either....
That just makes it too easy for creepy things to sneak up from behind.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/964/178/d02.jpg

(Gotta keep your sense of humor... :jester:)

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

For most people being right is more important than the truth itself. At first I thought it was my duty to try to wake up family and friends. My family didn’t mind as long as I didn’t point out the contradictions in their religious beliefs. My friends think that I consider everything a conspiracy and that I need to show some trust in the system cause it got us to the “peak of human civilization”. Then it hit me: who am I to try to tell people how to think? We are all on our individual journeys and no matter how much love and care we have for family and friends, we simply need to let them be. I know this will sound like a cliché, but changing ourselves internally will help everyone around us way much more than just simply trying to change their minds about something they believe in.
This strikes me as an extraordinarily wise post. Thank you

[Olam]

My older sister lives in Seattle, and embraces all the politics there. I find those politics horrifying.

Until recently we've almost never discussed anything political. I've always known her views on things and never saw any point in engaging her on them. Like most people, she's entrenched, and I knew that any attempt on my part to offer a new perspective would be met with heavy resistance and might create unnecessary familial tension.

But after her last post I couldn't help myself. That post went something like this (paraphrase): "I wonder if the same Trump people that condemned the BLM protests will speak out against the events in DC.."

A poster responded to that post with the following: "Violence is violence and I don't like any of it.."

And my sister responded: "you can't compare the two because BLM is a civil rights movement..

Like most people, I have a certain reverence for my older siblings, and assign them characteristics they may not necessarily deserve as a result. I've always viewed my older sister as wise and devastatingly smart; infallible almost. But her comments were so ignorant and astoundingly dumb that I found myself almost paralyzed in my attempt to respond. After all, where would I even begin???

I've had a FB profile for over a decade but have only posted maybe 3 or 4 times. I only use it for the chat option - for overseas friends mainly - and to occasionally check up on old classmates. Posting there is something that my soul rejects with all its might. But I had to make an exception here.

I wrote (paraphrase): BLM is much more than a civil rights movement. It's a defacto political party and, increasingly, a business. And they have also been, at varying times: arsonists, looters, extortionists, and even murderers. That group in DC would have to rampage thru half a dozen cities for the next 6 months for there to be any kind of fair comparison. I don't like what happened in DC but if we're going to compare we have to be fair in our assessments.."

I immediately regretted writing it, on the one hand. If I felt strongly enough about it, maybe I should have just called or texted her? Right? I couldn't quite decide.

Anyway, I texted her and apologized, and wrote what I just wrote in my last paragraph here, and explained that I was going to erase the post. I didn't want to upset her, for starters, but I also didn't want to embarrass her in front of her FB friends. So I erased it.

She texted back a little while later, saying no worries, I wasn't mad etc, but I "think your sources are BS"

I knew she was upset. I didn't believe the text for a second. But what I kept getting caught on was the word "sources". Nothing I said required any exotic sources. I just knew that stuff on the strength of being alive. Anyone watching their local news would know that stuff. Common knowledge, right?

Then why are so many people thinking like my sister? I simply can't fathom it. How could anyone not only forgive 6 months of rioting,looting, arson, and murder under the banner of "civil rights", but also aggressively condemn the recent events in DC without feeling like an enormous hypocrite?

Someone please help me understand this

As I wrote earlier in another thread, I'm living the same with my dad.

Here is what I get from this...

The ability to have some perspective these days is important. This being said, not everyone has those tools at hand.
For example, we all tend to focus on our own problems and it's difficult to put that aside and be fully in someone else's shoes as they say.
Very many humans have it way more difficult than us privileged folks living in modern society, yet we bath fully in our own difficult reality.
There is a war on our consciousness now and it's been there for a long time.
The main tool in this war is fear. A fear that is under the rug but always there.
Every time you walk on that part of the rug, you are subconsciously reminded of it's presence without really knowing what to do about it.
So if I speak for my dad, he has learned to create a comfort zone to deal this fear.
For him, it's about sitting in front of the tv and listening to his favorite newscaster, who inspires confidence in his business suit and the fact that he has been at it for 30 years or more.
When someone like me comes along to shake things up a bit, I am seen as dangerous as I put a crack on the glass bubble.
The lord knows I have been trying to "help" him out of that for many years.
Now I realize that if there is going to be any drastic changes in the way he sees things, it will have to come from him and whatever is the catalyst for that.
I can thank my dad for proving to me that change can only come from inside you, nobody can change someone else.
All I can do, which is extremely difficult these days is to be present in compassion, understanding the reasons personal to my dad why he lives the way he does.
All of us are here to learn from our "mistakes". Even if it's 10 minutes before you die, it will have all been worth it.
Even then, some folks only realize the truth in spirit form once they have left the body,....this too is valid and part of what it is to be human.

Many blessings to you and your sister.

[onawah]

I attended Codependents Anonymous meetings for awhile back in my 30s (my dad was an alcoholic), and the best piece of wisdom I came away with from that was an understanding about the need to be right.
It really rang true for me because as a child, I sometimes felt like I was the only sane one in the bunch, and if I didn't keep my head on straight, the whole family would end up in some kind of disastrous situation.
Apparently that is common among children from dysfunctional families, and it's hard to shake even as an adult because it's so deeply ingrained.
To some extent, we are all traumatized children in this world and that need to be right, and the belief that we are, for some of us may seem to be all there is to cling to to ward off disaster.
While in others, sadly, there may be a need to feel like a victim simply because the reality is they are (perhaps)so undeservedly privileged that phony victimhood is all that keeps them from dealing with the pangs of their guilty conscience.
But that's a whole different discussion.

For most people being right is more important than the truth itself. At first I thought it was my duty to try to wake up family and friends. My family didn’t mind as long as I didn’t point out the contradictions in their religious beliefs. My friends think that I consider everything a conspiracy and that I need to show some trust in the system cause it got us to the “peak of human civilization”. Then it hit me: who am I to try to tell people how to think? We are all on our individual journeys and no matter how much love and care we have for family and friends, we simply need to let them be. I know this will sound like a cliché, but changing ourselves internally will help everyone around us way much more than just simply trying to change their minds about something they believe in.