10 REASONS TO BE VEGAN: Why people make the change

[Constance]

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[Odons02]

Nice one, Constance!

Animals really are here with us and not for us.

[Constance]

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[O Donna]

Not to diminish the OP and good comments but plants should be given their due as well

Plants are like saying, what am I, chopped liver?

Do Plants Really Feel Pain? What Does Science Say? (https://www.livekindly.co/do-plants-really-feel-pain-what-does-science-say/#:~:text=In%20a%20nutshell%2C%20plants%20are,and%20animals%20to%20feel%20pain.)

Pick your consumption, that's life.

[Constance]

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[ZenBaller]

Not to diminish the OP and good comments but plants should be given their due as well

Plants are like saying, what am I, chopped liver?

Do Plants Really Feel Pain? What Does Science Say? (https://www.livekindly.co/do-plants-really-feel-pain-what-does-science-say/#:~:text=In%20a%20nutshell%2C%20plants%20are,and%20animals%20to%20feel%20pain.)

Pick your consumption, that's life.

With all due respect, mentioning in a pro-vegan thread the classic argument that plants feel pain, when meat and dairy consumption is one of the most significant causes of the destruction of the planet and limitation of human consciousness while a plant-based nutrition would probably solve global starvation and lead to a massive spiritual evolution... is worth some rethinking.

[Bill Ryan]

Not to diminish the OP and good comments but plants should be given their due as well

Plants are like saying, what am I, chopped liver?

Do Plants Really Feel Pain? What Does Science Say? (https://www.livekindly.co/do-plants-really-feel-pain-what-does-science-say/#:~:text=In%20a%20nutshell%2C%20plants%20are,and%20animals%20to%20feel%20pain.)

Pick your consumption, that's life.

With all due respect, mentioning in a pro-vegan thread the classic argument that plants feel pain, when meat and dairy consumption is one of the most significant causes of the destruction of the planet and limitation of human consciousness while a plant-based nutrition would probably solve global starvation and lead to a massive spiritual evolution... is worth some rethinking.Well, I don't think O Donna was pointing that out as an advocate of meat consumption. She was really remarking that we need to be conscious of ALL life on the planet, our relationship to it, and how we abuse it and/or take it for granted.

:flower:

[ZenBaller]

Well, I don't think O Donna was pointing that out as an advocate of meat consumption. She was really remarking that we need to be conscious of ALL life on the planet, our relationship to it, and how we abuse it and/or take it for granted.

:flower:

I agree with that. I'm sure she meant well. I'm not a vegan activist to argue with people who still eat meat. The time comes for everyone when he feels ready. I am vegan but I could see myself hunting deers with a bow in a post apocalyptic scenario :p

The reason I felt that I had to reply is that our egoic mind (mine too of course) is looking to point out flaws even in a absolutely positive post like this, instead of simply supporting. That is something I have to stand up for.

Realistically speaking, we need at least a few centuries for the world to become plant based so we can start thinking about the impact of veganism on plants and what the next level should be.

[Constance]

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[Akasha]

Not to diminish the OP and good comments but plants should be given their due as well

Plants are like saying, what am I, chopped liver?

Do Plants Really Feel Pain? What Does Science Say? (https://www.livekindly.co/do-plants-really-feel-pain-what-does-science-say/#:~:text=In%20a%20nutshell%2C%20plants%20are,and%20animals%20to%20feel%20pain.)

Pick your consumption, that's life.

The "plants feel pain tho' " gets pwnd when one considers the quantity of plants required to produce a pound of meat. Those espousing concern for the well-being of our photosynthesising friends (rather than paying lip service in order to continue their cruel habits) would, by their own logic, be plant-based since roughly 10x less plants would die in the process if said folk were vegan.........and that's without getting into fruit, legumes, root vegetables and nuts.

For those who haven't grown their own spuds, they die off naturally and then you harvest them; the same goes for legumes such as beans and peas, and of course, fruit and nuts just fall off the tree when the time is right so no suffering there either. I could go on......

[O Donna]

Not to diminish the OP and good comments but plants should be given their due as well

Plants are like saying, what am I, chopped liver?

Do Plants Really Feel Pain? What Does Science Say? (https://www.livekindly.co/do-plants-really-feel-pain-what-does-science-say/#:~:text=In%20a%20nutshell%2C%20plants%20are,and%20animals%20to%20feel%20pain.)

Pick your consumption, that's life.

The "plants feel pain tho' " gets pwnd when one considers the quantity of plants required to produce a pound of meat. Those espousing concern for the well-being of our photosynthesising friends (rather than paying lip service in order to continue their cruel habits) would, by their own logic, be plant-based since roughly 10x less plants would die in the process if said folk were vegan.........and that's without getting into fruit, legumes, root vegetables and nuts.

For those who haven't grown their own spuds, they die off naturally and then you harvest them; the same goes for legumes such as beans and peas, and of course, fruit and nuts just fall off the tree when the time is right so no suffering there either. I could go on......

Mirror, mirror

[DeDukshyn]

 
 
I could argue all of those except 7 and 4 in some instances, and maybe 1 in some instances.

Hunted meat, or ethically farmed meat (like my cousins ranch where all animals are revered), does not apply to many of those points.

Meat is nutritious, in fact contains a much broader range of nutrients than any plant.

You can revere that which you hunt and eat.

Financial reasons might be opposite in some parts of the world.



Here's my list for eating vegan ...

-- Environmental impact -- this is huge people. The rain-forests are being burned for cattle production (often to grow soybeans to feed cattle)
-- Animal cruelty -- if you buy your meat from a factory farm, you are paying for animal cruelty. Full stop.

Those two points.



That said, I live in Canada ... **** doesn't grow here eight months out of the year ... nothing.

Proper hunting involves a kill surrendering itself for you sustenance. Yes, the universe works this way. How do you think lions stay out of hell?

Raising food animals is to be done in love and reverence. No it is not always done this way (in fact rarely), unfortunately.

For us in the north , eating fruits and veggies year round mostly means eating GMOS imported from some country exploiting their farmers -- it is what it is.


Another point for eating less meat: the "western diet" eats way too much meat --- once or twice a week is plenty. Get off your addiction. And eat meat you killed and processed yourself, or at the very least, meat you bought from an ethical farm.

If you live in warmer climates - eat more vegetables- you have that luxury - do it!

But as a northern Canadian that doesn't want to consume GMOs and wants to support local ecomomies and not the likes of Monsanto ... options are limited .. the "how" then becomes the important part ...


My two cents ...

[Constance]

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[Ernie Nemeth]

I am interested again in vegan foods. For me it is because I am in yoga training again and devoted students just start to crave better foods. Foods filled with the life force.

My problem is that I have never found a good source for recipes. I know almost nothing about vegan. And so my attempts to get more life force foods is limited to bean salad and fresh herbs. On retreats in the past I have been fed really yummy vegetarian meals. Those are the ones I wish I knew how to make. There was this amazing veggie burger that if I knew how to make I would make it a lot.

I was brought up on meat. Meat at every meal. I was so well conditioned that when I went out on my own sometimes I would go hungry because there was no meat in the house - plenty of food but no meat. For instance, I could not have a slice of bread without some sort of meat involved. Cheese or eggs were no substitute either.

So now, as I advance in my training, my body is craving good foods with no meat. I wonder if we could start a thread for vegetarian and vegan recipes...

[DeDukshyn]

 
 
Meat is nutritious, in fact contains a much broader range of nutrients than any plant.

Tell that to the strongest and biggest herbivores who inhabit this planet and to the millions of species of plants worldwide offering us a plethora of micro and macro nutrients.
...

I don't want to turn this into a debate on your pertinent and important topic - we agree on some points, but just on this point: by saying that animals have nutrients, I was not implying that plants do not. ;) I know some people try to argue that but of course its not true, just like its not true to say that animals don't have nutrients.


Also keep in mind Canada is a big country - BC alone has six entirely separate climate zones. For example the south west coast is a temperate rain-forest and stays fairly green year round; stuff there is pretty easy to grow year round with a basic greenhouse - its a tiny part of BC, but is usually what even more eastern Canadians think of "BC weather", but the vast majority of BC isn't like that. Once you move away from the Pacific ocean, things get a lot colder in the winters (but hotter in the summers).

In the northern interior, one is dealing with a rather large shortage of sunlight during winter months and temps down to -35C are not abnormal - if one has to provide their own light and vast amounts of heat for their garden, Food growing becomes an exercise for those who have vast amounts of cash to pump into it, not necessarily limited technically.

I'm not saying its impossible, just generally impractical for most of the areas in BC on most people's budget, with the exception of the very south and very west portions of the province. I currently have a vegetable greenhouse where I'm at, and it works well for the summer months for many edible vegetables (carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, cabbage, tomatoes, potatoes), the trick is trying to growing enough and having enough freezer space to make it last until next harvest season.

Summer months aren't an issue - it gets hot, its just the long cold dark winters - winter can easily last 6 months where I currently live. I'm just waiting for the pole shift that supposedly will move Canada to a warmer region, lol ;)

[Akasha]

I am interested again in vegan foods. For me it is because I am in yoga training again and devoted students just start to crave better foods. Foods filled with the life force.

My problem is that I have never found a good source for recipes. I know almost nothing about vegan. And so my attempts to get more life force foods is limited to bean salad and fresh herbs. On retreats in the past I have been fed really yummy vegetarian meals. Those are the ones I wish I knew how to make. There was this amazing veggie burger that if I knew how to make I would make it a lot.

I was brought up on meat. Meat at every meal. I was so well conditioned that when I went out on my own sometimes I would go hungry because there was no meat in the house - plenty of food but no meat. For instance, I could not have a slice of bread without some sort of meat involved. Cheese or eggs were no substitute either.

So now, as I advance in my training, my body is craving good foods with no meat. I wonder if we could start a thread for vegetarian and vegan recipes...

Hi Ernie,

Here are what I would consider to be the top vegan food channels on Youtube. They all cover a wide variety of dishes from healthy to comfort/junk.

There are many others too but these should get you started. Jó étvágyat !!!


avantgardevegan (https://www.youtube.com/c/avantgardevegan/featured)


The Happy Pear (https://www.youtube.com/user/happypeargreystones)


The Vegan Corner (https://www.youtube.com/c/thevegancorner/videos)


BOSH.TV (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqmn-vEmYbZ4wqMHt2ndZdQ)

[Ernie Nemeth]

Kosz szep.

[Constance]

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[Paladin14]

Tony Wright has some interesting thoughts/research one considering veganism would definitely like to hear.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0k1x7rBk40

[Constance]

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[DeDukshyn]

This is pretty good ... Daniel Schmachtenberger on "The Ethics Behind Animal Rights & Veganism" -- he intelligently touches on most of the points raised from both sides of the argument from the perspective of a vegan.

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[Constance]

Here is something that helps with the growth and health of fruit and vegetables. :)

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[Patient]

 
 
Meat is nutritious, in fact contains a much broader range of nutrients than any plant.

Tell that to the strongest and biggest herbivores who inhabit this planet and to the millions of species of plants worldwide offering us a plethora of micro and macro nutrients.
...

I don't want to turn this into a debate on your pertinent and important topic - we agree on some points, but just on this point: by saying that animals have nutrients, I was not implying that plants do not. ;) I know some people try to argue that but of course its not true, just like its not true to say that animals don't have nutrients.


Also keep in mind Canada is a big country - BC alone has six entirely separate climate zones. For example the south west coast is a temperate rain-forest and stays fairly green year round; stuff there is pretty easy to grow year round with a basic greenhouse - its a tiny part of BC, but is usually what even more eastern Canadians think of "BC weather", but the vast majority of BC isn't like that. Once you move away from the Pacific ocean, things get a lot colder in the winters (but hotter in the summers).

In the northern interior, one is dealing with a rather large shortage of sunlight during winter months and temps down to -35C are not abnormal - if one has to provide their own light and vast amounts of heat for their garden, Food growing becomes an exercise for those who have vast amounts of cash to pump into it, not necessarily limited technically.

I'm not saying its impossible, just generally impractical for most of the areas in BC on most people's budget, with the exception of the very south and very west portions of the province. I currently have a vegetable greenhouse where I'm at, and it works well for the summer months for many edible vegetables (carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, cabbage, tomatoes, potatoes), the trick is trying to growing enough and having enough freezer space to make it last until next harvest season.

Summer months aren't an issue - it gets hot, its just the long cold dark winters - winter can easily last 6 months where I currently live. I'm just waiting for the pole shift that supposedly will move Canada to a warmer region, lol ;)

Speaking about variety in B.C. , there is even a desert area - although I have never been there.

I miss B.C., the climate, the mountains, and everywhere you look you always see green trees!!!

I know some people that were born there and have never left, never travelled. They have it so good they do not know how good.

I remember one person saying, "what? No mountains in the other provinces?"

No, I said, not like this. :)

Vegen - I am almost completely vegen. It was a slow process. I just followed how my body felt. Of course I love animals, but that was not the main reason. I am healthier and going to live longer. I still have a full head of hair and not many wrinkles and I am almost 60 years old.
I figure I have another 25-30 active years to go!

[Constance]

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[DeDukshyn]

...

Speaking about variety in B.C. , there is even a desert area - although I have never been there.

...

The areas around Wallachin and Ashcroft (near Kamloops) are pretty much desert. I remember going to a track meet in Ashcroft when I was in high school - you had watch out for little cacti growing amongst the grass ... and the occasional rattlesnake. ;)

[palehorse]

I do not know if I can, I like smoked meat more than anything. Sometimes I go for vegan food, I really enjoy it, but the damn smoked meat is something I grew up eating and seeing the folks preparing, it is like a tradition buried deep inside me that I can't get rid. I share the same feelings as Ernie when he said "I was brought up on meat. Meat at every meal. I was so well conditioned that.."

[Patient]

I do not know if I can, I like smoked meat more than anything. Sometimes I go for vegan food, I really enjoy it, but the damn smoked meat is something I grew up eating and seeing the folks preparing, it is like a tradition buried deep inside me that I can't get rid. I share the same feelings as Ernie when he said "I was brought up on meat. Meat at every meal. I was so well conditioned that.."

I was the same...and salmon was the last meat I left behind. At the time it was easy because it had changed and was not the same anymore. Maybe it was farmed? I don't know.

[Constance]

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[Snoweagle]

Number 11

My stroke "taught" me to heal by Veganism. Fruit, veg, nuts and berries. I detailed this in one of my posts.

The high and mighty here at Project Avalon used this to mock me. Go see for yourselves. You being researchers 'n all. roflmao

[prc]

I respect your diet but I eat everything, vegetebles, fruits, meat grains (an omnivorous diet), I was raised this way and I do not plan to change my diet because meat contains vitamins of B complex that you cannot find anywhere in plants. I will not change natural food for pills from Farmaceutical Industry. Another thing that is important for Vegans to Know that a diet rich in Soy Beans for prolonged lenth of time can cause osteoporosis, anemia and malnutrition. This was said by Brazilian Doctor Dr. Lair Ribeiro a famous nutrology here.

And to finish my post, my grandmother, mother of my father died at 105 years old and my grandmother mother of my mother died at 98 years old, both ate meat and everything else. They must have done the right thing because they both lead a long and healthy life.

[Hughe]

I respect your diet but I eat everything, vegetebles, fruits, meat grains (an omnivorous diet), I was raised this way and I do not plan to change my diet because meat contains vitamins of B complex that you cannot find anywhere in plants. I will not change natural food for pills from Farmaceutical Industry. Another thing that is important for Vegans to Know that a diet rich in Soy Beans for prolonged lenth of time can cause osteoporosis, anemia and malnutrition. This was said by Brazilian Doctor Dr. Lair Ribeiro a famous nutrology here.

And to finish my post, my grandmother, mother of my father died at 105 years old and my grandmother mother of my mother died at 98 years old, both ate meat and everything else. They must have done the right thing because they both lead a long and healthy life.
Same here. I eat meat for protein and essential nutrition intake. I don't understand why some people go so extreme. In animal kingdom, all animals eat live food or be eaten alive!

My father died in early 30s. I almost lived for half century. One hundred years ago the average life span was around 30s. To find old human who is 60 years old was rare in the village. So when man or woman had 60th birthday, all the villagers gathered celebrated, held the party for the exceptional elder.

Honestly except natural farming that utilities anything in local environment, organic farming, technological agriculture that handle mono crop damages the ecosystem. Look at the waste land after harvesting wheat or basic crops in the world every year. To grow crops, farmers destroy biosphere.

I became a seasonal farmer. I produces five to seven tons of rice each year on the rice field.

[Constance]

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[Constance]

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[Constance]

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[delfine]

The positive results from going vegan, seems to occur only in the beginning. After some time you begin to encounter all kinds of adverse effects. I recommend watching the video-series " vegans, the epitome of malnourishment" (sorry I can't link) where you'll see loads of emaciated and sickly vegans looking like they are at the brink of death.

[Strat]

Someone should start a Vegan vs Omnivore thread to avoid derailing this one. These forums have danced around this issue but never really dived in (that I'm aware of), I assume because it's very polarizing which leads to tempers inevitably flaring. I've got my 2 cents regarding this topic but I think it would further derail this thread.

[Constance]

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[Hym]

Maybe this will help:

I always tell people that when they change their eating habits and begin searching for a healthier input into their bodies, that it is best to find the tastiest foods and food combinations that are vegan or vegetarian, BEFORE they discontinue eating meat and fish. Besides that, suddenly changing to some vegan-only eating habits may detox your system too quickly.

Why does anyone think that going vegan or veggie is a chore or a sacrifice? That is some imposition from somewhere else and it certainly is not the experience of those of us who have chosen another way to feed our bodies, calm our souls, and gain further control of our health....... all dogma, poetic and SJW environmental constructs aside. After all, Hitler was a vegetarian. It's not as if going veg imparts some great spiritual reward.

It's best to leave that self-righteous crap, out of your journey, not to say that is a knock on anyone here or anywhere. It isn't. This is about you and your choices. All we can do is share some and be true to the heart of the proposition in this thread. Amidst my responses here are the reasons I have, all borne out of experience.

If you choose to deprive yourself and not explore your cravings, many of which can be understood, and even necessary, as your body needing certain nutrients, you will miss the treasure of healthy eating.

I have never traded a good tasting meat or fish dish for some tasteless "health" food. A good point on this is I rarely ate much tofu without adding Braggs amino acids, miso, seaweed garnish and a ton of spices to cooking it, so I rarely ate it. The over promotion of tofu in society was ignorant, to say the least. I do know of a few who were raised on it who have had serious thyroid problems from their parents using it as a base, without serving a much more varied and inclusive diversity of eating options in their lives. If you eat a vegan or vegetarian dish side by side with a carnivores dish, it's not an exterior judgement. It's your experience, with no self-defeating mind games going on. Like Constance says, it will fit you. You won't get any judgement from me.

Unlike some other vegetarians, I enjoyed every bit of well cooked meat and fish I ever had. I say that because my mother would eat raw meat, which convinced me at age seven to cook my own or recook it after she cooked. In contrast, one of my grandmothers would cook a pot roast for 4 days, constantly adding water. I don't know what it was that I ate at the end of her cooking. I think I may have gotten most of the nutrients from the air, while they wasted away those long days.

I can think of a dish, any one in the past, meat or not, to this day and I can smell it. I don't equate the smell of raw meat or fish with anything but my great sense of smell telling me if I'd like it or not. It's expected that since being a vegetarian I haven't liked it for all this time.

In the same vein, if I have to eat meat in some survival situation, I'll say a prayer in thanks to the soul of the animal for the gift. In good turn, if some animal is forced to eat me or starve, or have it's children starve, enjoy, I should be tasty...

If it dies, I'll find someone who eats meat and bring it to them. I do like what the high mountain monks do with their friend's body after death, cutting up the body parts to feed the animals in the area. If you're still there with your body after death, you weren't a very successful monk anyway.

I never purposely tried to find or veggie imitate any meat dish I ate, as I wondered why anyone would do that. The thought of making a fake meat dish is as lame as drinking a near beer....the taste without the spirit. WTF is that all about? I always went for the taste and the energy the food gave me, all the while reading as much as I can, still, about real nutrition and finding tasty foods to combine, to cook, to ENJOY.

I haven't eaten meat or fish in 48 years, but that's me. I haven't been deprived of any great tasting meal since then. Quite the opposite. I now eat a much wider variety of foods than I think I would have eaten if I'd have had some of my basic dietary needs met by eating meat and fish, even with all of the, also, endless dishes that can be made. Part of that is out of necessity and the other part is developing a more inquisitive palate and a necessarily more advanced sense of finding those nutrients that my body craves.

I initially cut out meat because I was so active, working and exercising daily, from the time of my early childhood, but especially working after college. Going without meat I had already felt and factually proved to myself that I recovered quicker and had more energy, more endurance. At the end of that meatless month, a girlfriend's mom made a great, super tasty 3 cheese, 3 meat lasagna dish for us. I was drained for 3 days while my system dealt with removing the excess uric acid the meat put into my system.

The deeper change in recovery from the dinner beyond that physicality, and I didn't eat more than normal, was an insight into my consciousness that was easier to connect with, a new and effortless access I was surprised to have gained. After all it was just a meat dish I had.

It was then that I read a quote from the inspirational poet Kahlil Gibran, who wondered how, after having a deeply profound experience of consciousness, anyone could eat meat. (No matter that he died early of cirrhosis of the liver from his drinking. I'd suggest he'd want us to be inspired by his insights. Just because some addictions are hard to shake, doesn't mean the other gifts we have and develop cannot be enjoyed and shared. I have some good friends like this.)

If you haven't found a comparably energizing and fulfilling dish or foods to do what meat and fish do, our experience is that you haven't looked enough or experimented enough to find the endless dishes that will fulfill the natural and needed cravings you should have all of your life. However, if you love eating meat, I'd suggest that you go without for a while, even go on a short fast, then get back and eat a tasty meat dish you've loved before. It's only up to you and what your body tells you.

The added bonus I've found, as well as have others, and one I can tell you, without being too graphic, is that intimacy is different with a vegetarian than it is with a meat eater.....very different. It just may go from Hmmm? to Yummm!, tho this is just a man talking about women. My avatar should reveal something about my experience, if you just use your imagination.


Now that I think about taste:

I saute mushrooms in a lot of water and drink the juice, later eating the mushrooms in a dish with other ingredients. It is satiating, very nourishing and contains the natural glutamates that provide the nutrients that are felt immediately.

These are not the adulterated, altered glutamates used in cooking that pass the blood brain barrier and cause harm, like monosodium glutamate that was often used in cooking in many restaurants in the past.

[Constance]

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[Ernie Nemeth]

I have been detoxing for over a month now (using yoga techniques I learnt long ago - abdominal lifts + forceful deep breathing in extreme poses) and eating more vegetables and fruit. The problem is, that since I started this regimen my digestive system is not happy at all. My body calls for food that has more life force in it, but my gut is asking if we could just go back to normal food. I've been bloated ever since starting back on veggies and fruit. It is very uncomfortable. I am hoping that it will settle down once the detoxing is finished or at least progresses further along. I just don't know how much longer I can take it...

I've always had a problem digesting raw foods so I finally realized it is best not to eat them. Just days after stopping the raw foods my stomach was fine at last, after so many years of bloating and painful digestion (because I love fruit and salads). But yoga demands healthy food, so I've started back on them and the pain has returned on cue.

[Constance]

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[DeDukshyn]

I have been detoxing for over a month now (using yoga techniques I learnt long ago - abdominal lifts + forceful deep breathing in extreme poses) and eating more vegetables and fruit. The problem is, that since I started this regimen my digestive system is not happy at all. My body calls for food that has more life force in it, but my gut is asking if we could just go back to normal food. I've been bloated ever since starting back on veggies and fruit. It is very uncomfortable. I am hoping that it will settle down once the detoxing is finished or at least progresses further along. I just don't know how much longer I can take it...

I've always had a problem digesting raw foods so I finally realized it is best not to eat them. Just days after stopping the raw foods my stomach was fine at last, after so many years of bloating and painful digestion (because I love fruit and salads). But yoga demands healthy food, so I've started back on them and the pain has returned on cue.

It might be best to start with just small amounts of raw food because your microbiome needs to adjust to new input.

If the body hasn't experienced a plant before, or it hasn't seen that particular plant for a long time, the body won't know what it is looking at.

Detoxing in winter is never ideal. If one is wanting to do a detox, it is best done during the summer months where no socks are required. Our energies are in their most expanded state during the summer months. It is why we are more susceptible to colds and flu's in the autumn, winter and spring months, our energies are naturally contracting and if our bodies are not in a state of balance, it only takes a small pin to pop a balloon. For example, if we overeat at a meal, it can create an emotional imbalance which can then cause an imbalance in the gut. It is the whole gut/brain connection.

If a detox causes side effects, the detox is too strong for the individual. If one is detoxing, one's body should not even be aware that it is detoxing. Ideally, detoxing needs to be done over a 2 year cycle.

Just to add to this, incorrect food combining can also create disturbances in the body.

To add ... the human body is incredibly adaptable - amazingly so if you read up on some of the extreme cases. I'll add to this the concept of what is known as a gene expression shift. This is when you body shifts the expression of certain genes - shuts off some, activates others. Usually this requires somewhat of an extreme situation to induce.

For example, caloric restriction is one. Under caloric restriction, the body will adapt by augmenting over 100 gene expressions to facilitate reduced calories and nutrients. It goes into something we might consider a "self preservation" mode. Age based diseases and other common health issues are greatly reduced under this gene expression and the body begins to function in a state to maximize longevity. Caloric restriction is actually the only potential "fountain of youth" phenomenon that has some scientific backing behind it.

This ties into my earlier post (I think on the other thread) where I talk about the typical "western" (or modern) diet being excessive in overall consumption.

That said, there are other ways to trigger different gene expressions and changes in diet may be one of them. Do note that while undergoing a gene expression change or even simply a hormonal change, the body feels like **** for a while before everything shifts and the adaptation is complete. It should be complete in a couple weeks but may take longer. In the mean time, headaches, sleeplessness or tiredness, lack of energy or excessive nervous system stimulation, and digestive issues are all normal.

I am speaking both from personal experience and reading anecdotal experiences from others.

And all that said, everyone is different and simply gut microflora adaptation takes even longer in many cases. Gut microflora is somewhat linked to diet, but what has established itself, is hard to displace. So in the mean time, digestive upset may occur as the old gut fungi and bacteria have issues with the new diet, but resist relinquishing their hold on the establishment for different bacteria and fungi to take their place. I find garden vegetables with their natural microflora (as in don't wash them too heavily) helps in this regard - but still the process is slow. The stomach is designed to kill microbes - hence all the acid, so few actually get through. It takes time.

[Peace in Oz]

I live on a whole food, plant based diet centred on starches. Dr McDougall taught me how to nourish myself and I am very grateful to him.

-28BFycPA7U

Dr McDougall proposes a simple diet based on starches like potato, sweet potato, rice and veggies, in order to stay chronic disease free.

John McDougall, MD - The Potato is Still a Staple - PART 1
Start at 7.30 minute mark to skip the details about covid.

- Potatoes are underground storage organ, they store the energy for the potato plant;
- Potatoes are the pillars of worldwide nutrition;
- One acre of potatoes will feed 10 people for a year;
- They grow in low lands, high lands, wet areas and dry areas, cold areas and warm areas; grow almost in any place;
- It is an affordable food;
- Originated in the cold, dry Lake Titicaca region of Peru and Bolivia;
- It was a staple crop in the Andes as far as 10-12,000 years ago;
- Potatoes ended famine in Europe wherever they were introduced;
- Potatoes have become unpopular when the meat, dairy and fish industries decided to dominate the market;
- Potatoes are the most productive, require the least water, have the lowest carbon footprint of all the different foods such as wheat, rice or corn;
- Potatoes are sufficient as far as growing children from 8 month to 35 months of age. Children have been raised on potatoes as the sole source of protein and sole source of nutrients, as a formula, because there was nothing else available for these children;
- A man, 25 and a woman, 28 lived on a diet of primarily potatoes for six months; even though they were both physically active, they were described as “in good health on a diet in which the nitrogen (protein) was practically, solely derived from the potato”;
- Andrew Taylor from Australia, “Spud Fit”, lived on potatoes alone, cured his depression, aches and pains and lost 117 pounds;
- In the movie “The Martian (2015)” Matt Daemon went to Mars and what did he grow? He didn’t grow pork chops, he grew potatoes;:thumbsup:

[Constance]

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[Bill Ryan]

Seaspiracy, A highly recommended watch...

A few factoids about our beautiful sea creatures...


We have so much micro-plastic in our oceans that whales are straining this through their filter feeding system (baleen) instead of phytoplankton, filling their bellies up with plastic and dying of starvation.
Dolphins in the Southern waters off Japan are murdered because they are seen as competition for the Japanese fishermen.
10,000 sharks are killed every hour. Half are killed for their shark fins, tossed back into the ocean and left to drown, the other half are what are called by-catch by the fishing industry and they are discarded as waste back into the ocean. 50 million sharks a year are caught by fishing nets. Sharks are the cleaners and the filterers of our oceans, without them, the whole eco-system would collapse.
On the West Coast of France up to 10,000 dolphins are killed every year by by-catch. This has been going on for at least thirty years because the French Government has been very effective at hiding the problem. People don't realise that by eating fish from the ocean, they are contributing to a dolphins death sentence.
Everyone around the world eats fish but what most people don't realise is that the statistics of by-catch is alarming. 40% of sea creatures are thrown back into the ocean, dead before they even hit the water.

I have nothing but admiration for those warriors who are brave enough to stand up for the rights of animals. :bowing:

1Q5CXN7soQg
Seaspiracy | Official Trailer | NetflixYes, many thanks. :heart:

Now in the Avalon Library: :thumbsup:


https://avalonlibrary.net/Seaspiracy_(2021).mp4 (838 Mb)
(https://avalonlibrary.net/Seaspiracy_(2021).mp4)

https://avalonlibrary.net/Seaspiracy_(2021).mp4

[Anka]

Seaspiracy, A highly recommended watch...

A few factoids about our beautiful sea creatures...


We have so much micro-plastic in our oceans that whales are straining this through their filter feeding system (baleen) instead of phytoplankton, filling their bellies up with plastic and dying of starvation.
Dolphins in the Southern waters off Japan are murdered because they are seen as competition for the Japanese fishermen.
10,000 sharks are killed every hour. Half are killed for their shark fins, tossed back into the ocean and left to drown, the other half are what are called by-catch by the fishing industry and they are discarded as waste back into the ocean. 50 million sharks a year are caught by fishing nets. Sharks are the cleaners and the filterers of our oceans, without them, the whole eco-system would collapse.
On the West Coast of France up to 10,000 dolphins are killed every year by by-catch. This has been going on for at least thirty years because the French Government has been very effective at hiding the problem. People don't realise that by eating fish from the ocean, they are contributing to a dolphins death sentence.
Everyone around the world eats fish but what most people don't realise is that the statistics of by-catch is alarming. 40% of sea creatures are thrown back into the ocean, dead before they even hit the water.

I have nothing but admiration for those warriors who are brave enough to stand up for the rights of animals. :bowing:

1Q5CXN7soQg
Seaspiracy | Official Trailer | NetflixYes, many thanks. :heart:

Now in the Avalon Library: :thumbsup:


https://avalonlibrary.net/Seaspiracy_(2021).mp4 (838 Mb)
(https://avalonlibrary.net/Seaspiracy_(2021).mp4)

https://avalonlibrary.net/Seaspiracy_(2021).mp4

I am sorry. I could hardly follow to the point where the pregnant whale appeared (I felt the cuts in the flesh, in my chest) This makes me believe that if people disappeared instead, the animals would make a much healthier planet, in which the Echo-system would be truly balanced, where no one will be able to just kill anything that carries a living consciousness.

[Constance]

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[Constance]

Patagonia asks critical questions such as,

How far do we go to manufacture wildness?



XdNJ0JAwT7I
Artifishal (Full Film) | The Fight to Save Wild Salmon

[Kryztian]

[QUOTE=Constance;1421351]Seaspiracy, A highly recommended watch...

https://avalonlibrary.net/Seaspiracy_(2021).mp4

Thanks for this Bill! Well worth watching.

There were some passages where the fisherman interviewed were speaking Thai - I did not see any captions or see where I could turn them on. I assume the translations were part of the original video. Is there any way to make this show ? This happened at the 1 hours 9 minute mark.

[Akasha]

With particular consideration for reasons 4 and 7 in the O.P., I would like to draw folks' attention to what is currently going on in Equador.



World Bank Urged To Stop Financing Ecuador’s Largest Factory Farm


The World Bank’s commercial lending arm is being urged to stop financing Ecuador’s largest factory farm.

A coalition of NGOs has sent a letter to the board of the International Finance Corporation (IFC) requesting it vote against a $50 million loan for the expansion of Pronaca.

It is also asking the public to get involved in urging the corporation to defund the livestock sector.

Public health concerns
Since 2004, the IFC has provided Pronaca with at least $120 million in loans.

The meat giant has used the financing to expand its operations. Now, it has more than 30 pork and poultry farms in the Ecuadorian province of Santo Domingo de los Tsáchilas.

An investigation conducted by Mongabay, in collaboration with The Guardian and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, found local communities had been negatively impacted by the expansion.

Residents claim waste from the animals eventually ends up in their rivers. This then tainted the water with fecal coliform bacteria, causing skin, gastrointestinal, and respiratory issues.

Other complaints filed include ‘foul odor emanating from the pig farms’ and negative impacts on a buffer forest.

‘Stop funding factory farms’
Merel van der Mark is the head of animal welfare and finance at Sinergia Animal, one of the NGOs spearheading the conversation attempts with IFC.

In a statement sent to PBN, she said: “As a public financial institution, the IFC’s investments must be guided by public interest.

“This is not what is happening, quite the opposite. It’s time for this financial institution to stop funding the expansion of factory farms like it is planning to do with Pronaca.”

In 2010, local communities filed an official complaint against Pronaca over climate concerns. However, the complaint was closed without proper investigation and with no reached agreement.

Despite the lack of environmental permits, the IFC financed Pronaca again in 2013.

“It’s deeply concerning that from its disclosure page about the Pronaca loan… It’s clear that the IFC does not require Pronaca to consult with surrounding communities and obtain their support, let alone their consent for this project,” van der Mark added.

Sinergia Animal and partner organizations Feedback, the Global Forest Coalition, and Friends of the Earth have already sent two letters to the IFC.

They have asked the corporation to commit to divest from the industrial livestock sector. The letters cite evidence ‘that proves the sector fuels the climate crisis; is a major cause of social problems, poor animal welfare, deforestation, environmental degradation, loss of biodiversity, water, and air pollution; and increases the risk of antibiotic resistance and new pandemics’..... full article here (https://plantbasednews.org/culture/ethics/world-bank-urged-to-stop-financing-ecuadors-largest-factory-farm/)

[Constance]

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[Patient]

Just read through the entire thread. What a huge amount of excellent info in just 3 pages!

...and with all of the talk of potatoes. :)

If you have not done this - try this on your barbecue. Chop up a bunch of potatoes, and wrap it all up in tin foil with butter and garlic - oh yeah!

Do something similar with carrots (and a bit of brown sugar for a glaze).

I need to buy a new gas barbecue and when we get it, this will probably be the first thing on the grill!

[onawah]

A debate here from Dr. Mercola's site featuring two experts, one says meat is good, one says plant-based diet is best.
I don't mean to change the topic or derail the thread, but I haven't often seen a debate like this, and Dr. Mercola always has good info to share.
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/04/24/experts-face-off-plant-based-versus-meat-based.aspx?ui=8d3c7e22a03f5300d2e3338a0f080d2da3add85bca35e09236649153e4675f72&sd=20110604&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1ReadMore&cid=20210424&mid=DM866247&rid=1140626614

[Constance]

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[Bill Ryan]

Here's a wonderful interview with Steph Davis, 47 year old world-class superstar rock climber and BASE jumper (meaning, she jumps off very high things, flies around for a while, and then pulls a parachute at the last moment).

Here's a video, which is nothing if not inspiring.

Crazy Beautiful Thing: the title is perfect. Steph Davis, Super-stable, super-smart, and a super-super-nice person. Her dog Cajun goes with her everywhere. I don't know of any high-caliber sportsperson who is more universally loved.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YZWbgV_jIM
And here's just a great photo. :)

https://projectavalon.net/Steph_Davis.jpg

And she's a Vegan. This interview was published here (https://www.vegansociety.com/news/blog/interview-steph-davis-worlds-leading-vegan-climber) on the Vegan Society website.

Top level climber, skydiver and BASE jumper Steph Davis discusses nutrition, compassion and trusting yourself in high-risk environments

29 July, 2016

Few could pursue a life so fearlessly on the edge while being as down to earth as Steph Davis. A world-leading professional climber, skydiver and base-jumper, Steph is the only woman to have climbed a 5.11 grade route without safety equipment, and the first woman to summit the 2685m icy peak of Torre Egger in Argentina.

From her first climb aged 18 which left her feeling ‘lit up’, she continues to push herself to new heights in her athletic performance.

Living in the back of a converted van in Colorado while completing her master’s degree in English, Steph found herself becoming increasingly fascinated by and appreciative of her surroundings. Enjoying the need to adapt to nature, and being respectful of yourself and your environment, Steph sees rock climbing as a ‘metaphor for life’.

Steph began skydiving in 2007 and soon became thrilled by BASE jumping and wingsuit flying as well as free-climbing, which involves no safety equipment. When asked how she keeps calm in such risky situations, she says, “I focus on breathing and clearing my mind, and I trust myself to make the right choices.”

Changing perspectives

Steph made the decision to become vegan in 2003 following a boundless interest in the link between nutrition and athletic performance. “I tried four different eating systems, for a total of a year. At the end I did the Master Cleanse.

After the cleansing fast, I ate what I wanted to eat, and after a few weeks I realised I was eating vegan. So I stayed with it, and was amazed by the results athletically.”

Following a plant-based diet and remaining at the highest level of performance is not something that traditionalist climbers had previously believed possible. “Twelve years ago, people were generally very negative and unsupportive of veganism in general, and especially relative to climbing.

Now it seems like most people know about the health and athletic benefits of veganism. There are a lot of vegan climbers and athletes demonstrating the advantages of eating plant-based.”

Since changing her diet, every aspect of Steph’s life has been positively transformed. “I’ve been vegan for 10 years now, and there’s nothing in my life that hasn’t become better as a result.” She attributes her abilities and powerful connection with her sport and surroundings to this new perspective.

“To perform my sports and to stay alive in high risk environments, I need to be at top level athletic fitness. I also need to be highly attuned to the natural environment, and able to listen to myself and any outside messages. I have found that eating a vegan diet gives me optimum physical and mental awareness.”

Eating to thrive

Steph’s vegan diet is as stripped back and naturalistic as her way of life. “I like simplicity and purity. That is very much in line with my eating style: whole foods, whole grains. Nothing processed, nothing pre-made.”

Despite calling a whole range of locations home (including an octagonal cabin, a tent, and a converted van), Steph’s simplistic style of eating allows her to adapt her food to suit her environment wherever she may be.

“I eat the same everywhere, except when I don't have a refrigerator I don't eat as many salads – that's when I eat more broccoli and more durable vegetables and lentils. The beauty of vegetables and grains is that they don't spoil quickly like animal products do. I use powdered soymilk too when I'm in a more backcountry environment.”

After a day’s training, Steph creates inspired and delicious vegan dishes, many of which can be found in the recipe section of her website. “Right now I'm really into fermentation, so I've been making kombucha tea, and kim chi, a vegetable side dish.

For dinner, I love a big salad with grilled tofu and shredded yellow beetroot and carrots. Or a stir-fry with ginger, garlic, serrano pepper and tofu, or broccoli and ****ake mushrooms with brown rice.”

Compassionate choices

A long-standing campaigner and advocate for animal rights organisations, a profound respect for animals has been a significant part of Steph’s life for as long as she can remember. One fundamental reason Steph remains vegan is her awareness of the need for sustainable, ethical farming practices. “A vegan diet keeps consumer dollars out of the marketplace that supports factory farming, which I believe to be evil.”

Closer to home, Steph has adopted two strays as her beloved companions. “Mao is a little black cat who came in through the dog door one day, announced his name, and has been here for about six years.

Cajun was found starving on the Navajo reservation as a puppy, and she is about four and a half.” Cajun is Steph’s reliable companion on her adventures. “She runs down to the bottom of the cliff when I BASE jump, and meets me at the bottom.”

Best foot forward

Steph teamed up with climbing shoe company Evolv in 2012, working to create a vegan shoe that is suitable for a variety of terrains. “They are releasing a line of all vegan climbing shoes this season to include my shoe, the vegan Addict slipper. They have put a lot of energy into vegan shoes, and have been very supportive!”

Steph Davis is a pioneering vegan athlete from a breath-taking area of extreme sports. The way she emanates such positivity and focus in response to extreme situations is truly inspiring. To find out more about Steph you can follow her adventures on Twitter (https://twitter.com/highsteph?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/stephdavisclimb/) and Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/highsteph/?hl=en) or explore her story and blog further at stephdavis.com (http://www.stephdavis.com).