This ridiculous forum thread instantly turned me vegan

[waxamillionpehhgasus]

Here's the link
(https://ia802300.us.archive.org/8/items/rofschildv1/IAmARofschildAxeMeAQuestion.html)
The premise is that the forum thread starter is a "Rothschild", in other words a very high-ranking member of the STS hierarchy. No idea who he actually is.

I originally clicked on this thread to see how many people were tricked by a sophisticated LARP, but found this guy spitting some major knowledge at times.

The tone won't be for everyone, but I found it pretty funny. It starts slowly, mostly with insults, but picks up once the good questions start getting asked. Took me two days on and off to read and it was completely worth it.

Right after finishing up, I became vegan. The way he explained it just made it so OBVIOUS, at least to me. I had no reservations whatsoever. It's been about a week and a half and it's going great.

As context, before, my view of vegans were pretty neutral. It sounded interesting, but I didn't think it would work for me because I am a tall male with significant caloric needs, so I had never really tried it. (It does work... you just have to eat a ton of plant fat. Like, often more than you think.)

He also mentioned "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins as an essential book to read. I'm on chapter 5 and it's equally groundbreaking (if not more).


It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.
In a broader sense, it explains, scientifically, the science behind the Infinite Intelligence.
And to be clear I'm only on chapter 5.


The book only added to the obviousness of becoming vegan. The forum thread set me up to really understand and appreciate the implications of the concepts within the book, though.

Here's the link to the forum thread
(https://ia802300.us.archive.org/8/items/rofschildv1/IAmARofschildAxeMeAQuestion.html)
Compelling vegan-related excerpt from forum thread below...

---

You have been very gracious in your presentation of questions and ideas and demonstrated respect by following through on suggestions made by doing further research!

I would like to expand on two points for your consideration.

Most in the west are familiar with the concept of YIN YANG...the interrelationship of seeming opposite forces. I encourage you to become familiar with this TRUTH and look for examples in your experiences. See if it rises to the level of a NATURAL LAW in your reality!

Let us start simply!

"Night" cannot exist without "Day".

"Truth" cannot exist without "Lies"

"Problems" cannot exist without "solutions"

One gives form, creation and life to another.

A straight line cannot exist in nature!

There is no timeline...there is no past and no future. Because there IS no PAST...there cannot be a FUTURE.

Leaving only NOW, or REALITY. Keep this in mind.

Moving on to the concept of food!

You, presumably are an ANIMAL...a mammal.

You were a product of the insemination of egg by sperm. You were a live birth (again presumably) and a nursing mammal! Slow to mature and capable of complex cognitive interactions with your environment. Perhaps 300 million possible iterations of YOU, with one prevailing!

Sentient...capable of feeling pain, of growing and evolving.

What, of the attributes noted, differ from the animals you choose to eat? Say a PIG or COW...slaughtered by the hundreds of millions per year...and slaughtered without observing the laws and rituals of nature!

Most importantly, slaughtered on YOUR BEHALF!

It is well understood that these animals suffer greatly in their lifelong confinement (look up VEAL PRODUCTION for a "taste" of the sacrifice of YOUTH), are injected with all sorts of unnatural poisons and pharma effluents, fed genetically modified "grains" in a filthy environment.

Fear permeates their environment...misery unto DEATH.

Their complete existence is a MISERY from birth to death.

SLAUGHTER.

Where does all that fear and misery accumulate? Where does it go? Would YOU want to live in this existence? Do you APPROVE of these miseries being inflicted by those who act as your AGENT? Do you realize that AGENTS actions are lawfully binding upon the principal? As you BUY meat, you buy and legitimize this "system" of misery.

These mechanisms allow modification of thought perception which lead to such things as the aborting of human babies! Self-inflicted genocide! Astounding!

What will the next big advancement of humanity be?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Laughing out loud!

In the US, mcdonalds serves up billions of these little misery bombs...brightly wrapped and served by a grotesque clown character.

Eat up, Kiddies!

Eating animals is eating one's own. It is not a FOOD SOURCE per se, but cannibalism.

Consider another source of food. Plants.

Along the YIN YANG meridian, plants are opposite/complementary in most respects. Life forms, sure, and many realize now sentient.

However, plants and humans are symbiotic! One respirates Co2 and the other o2. One cannot live without the other!

Plants take non organic elements from the earth and make them digestible for humans. In fact, the only true source of minerals for human consumption come from plants. Elemental sources cannot be metabolized and end up causing sickness and death in humans.

Laughing out loud!

Human faeces is PLANT FERTILIZER! That which is SHAT is life giving food to plants!

Humans and plants have evolved together. There is much WISDOM which plants can impart to humans. One need only EAT!

Laughing out loud!

Let's create a small food chain scenario easily accomplished by MOST first world inhabitants.

You have, or acquire, a small plot of land. The land is fertile or reasonably so...or, worst case, can be rehabilitated with a small amount of knowledge of earthworms .

You plant a variety of green plants and vegetables...the type that humans normally consume. The cost of seeds is very small and through some miracle of life, you discover that the plants which grow also produce seeds...which can be kept for future growings! Food for now and the means of production for later!

You learn that by selecting the type of plants grown, you can make an ideal combination specific to your blood type and nutritional constitution. After some study, you learn that food can, indeed, be your "medicine"...just like that old guy said a few thousand years ago!

Laughing out loud!

After a period of systemic adjustment, you realize that your health has improved and you are bursting with abundant energy. You are never ill! No colds, no flu...no flesh eating bacteria!

The idea that one would need health insurance (socialist or private) becomes an absurdity!

At some point, you realize that the digestive tract you inherited required constant grazing...such as elephants, horses and cows do...and learn of JUICING! Most of the nutritional value can be extracted and made portable along with other benefits. You adopt this regimen after carefully weighing the pros and negatives and find an increase of super-charged energy....along with a small mountain of grindings from the juicing process...from vegetables and plants grown by yourself, with your labor...in your own garden!

You elect to form a relationship with a CHICKEN. Or maybe TWO CHICKENS!

You find that the chickens greedily eat the fibrous grinding remains along with bugs and anything else they can find...and, in exchange, give you a small nutrient bomb of proteins, high quality fats, organic minerals and other good stuff. They, in essence, extract the rest of the nutrition from the vegetables and produce it in a highly assimilatable form...complete amino acid profile, proportioned correctly.

Seeing an opportunity, you add this marvel of human nutrition to your green juicing! Raw!

Because the egg is UNFERTILIZED, there are no karmic issues with its consumption! Because you are providing a safe and healthy environment to the chicken; supplying it with healthy vegetables grown from the sweat of YOUR BROW...your toil...it is a perfectly symbiotic relationship!

Quid pro quo!

Now, the chicken ages and stops laying.

What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO??

Why, you continue to care for the chicken...to feed it and respect it during its "life" as you did while it was producing eggs! RESPECT, YO!

YOU DO NOT EAT THE CHICKEN! It lives out its life according to its NATURE and GENETIC PROGRAMMING. You are living according to the NATURAL LAW OF BOTH!

Why? Because you are living in the NOW! There being no timeline, there is only NOW. The killing of the chicken affects the Eggs...ALL the eggs concurrently. Betray the chicken NOW and poison the eggs NOW.

And you don't want to eat poisoned eggs, do you?

It's really very simple, actually.

So now, by the sweat of your own brow (and admittedly, taking very little actual sweat) you are feeding yourself and have taken responsibility for your own health. You are full of energy and brimming with positive POWER!

You grow your own food, maintain your own health and have no need for the pharma or poisoned ag industry!

At the same time, your need for fiat has been reduced significantly, so the need to toil in some dreary cubicle has been reduced or eliminated! You spend your life in the sunshine, in nature, producing and consuming your own labor.

How can ANY entity tax the fruit of your labors? Sadly, the various bureaucracies are not set up to process CHICKENS!

Laughing out loud!

This is but one very simple action ANYONE can take which changes their lives completely and allows them to take a new path. This earth truly is a biblical GARDEN OF EDEN!

Profoundly simple, and now laid out clearly for all to see!

[Constance]

ddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[Mashika]

Here's the link
(https://ia802300.us.archive.org/8/items/rofschildv1/IAmARofschildAxeMeAQuestion.html)
The premise is that the forum thread starter is a "Rothschild", in other words a very high-ranking member of the STS hierarchy. No idea who he actually is.

I originally clicked on this thread to see how many people were tricked by a sophisticated LARP, but found this guy spitting some major knowledge at times.

The tone won't be for everyone, but I found it pretty funny. It starts slowly, mostly with insults, but picks up once the good questions start getting asked. Took me two days on and off to read and it was completely worth it.

Right after finishing up, I became vegan. The way he explained it just made it so OBVIOUS, at least to me. I had no reservations whatsoever. It's been about a week and a half and it's going great.

As context, before, my view of vegans were pretty neutral. It sounded interesting, but I didn't think it would work for me because I am a tall male with significant caloric needs, so I had never really tried it. (It does work... you just have to eat a ton of plant fat. Like, often more than you think.)

He also mentioned "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins as an essential book to read. I'm on chapter 5 and it's equally groundbreaking (if not more).


It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.
In a broader sense, it explains, scientifically, the science behind the Infinite Intelligence.
And to be clear I'm only on chapter 5.


The book only added to the obviousness of becoming vegan. The forum thread set me up to really understand and appreciate the implications of the concepts within the book, though.

Here's the link to the forum thread
(https://ia802300.us.archive.org/8/items/rofschildv1/IAmARofschildAxeMeAQuestion.html)
Compelling vegan-related excerpt from forum thread below...

---

You have been very gracious in your presentation of questions and ideas and demonstrated respect by following through on suggestions made by doing further research!

I would like to expand on two points for your consideration.

Most in the west are familiar with the concept of YIN YANG...the interrelationship of seeming opposite forces. I encourage you to become familiar with this TRUTH and look for examples in your experiences. See if it rises to the level of a NATURAL LAW in your reality!

Let us start simply!

"Night" cannot exist without "Day".

"Truth" cannot exist without "Lies"

"Problems" cannot exist without "solutions"

One gives form, creation and life to another.

A straight line cannot exist in nature!

There is no timeline...there is no past and no future. Because there IS no PAST...there cannot be a FUTURE.

Leaving only NOW, or REALITY. Keep this in mind.

Moving on to the concept of food!

You, presumably are an ANIMAL...a mammal.

You were a product of the insemination of egg by sperm. You were a live birth (again presumably) and a nursing mammal! Slow to mature and capable of complex cognitive interactions with your environment. Perhaps 300 million possible iterations of YOU, with one prevailing!

Sentient...capable of feeling pain, of growing and evolving.

What, of the attributes noted, differ from the animals you choose to eat? Say a PIG or COW...slaughtered by the hundreds of millions per year...and slaughtered without observing the laws and rituals of nature!

Most importantly, slaughtered on YOUR BEHALF!

It is well understood that these animals suffer greatly in their lifelong confinement (look up VEAL PRODUCTION for a "taste" of the sacrifice of YOUTH), are injected with all sorts of unnatural poisons and pharma effluents, fed genetically modified "grains" in a filthy environment.

Fear permeates their environment...misery unto DEATH.

Their complete existence is a MISERY from birth to death.

SLAUGHTER.

Where does all that fear and misery accumulate? Where does it go? Would YOU want to live in this existence? Do you APPROVE of these miseries being inflicted by those who act as your AGENT? Do you realize that AGENTS actions are lawfully binding upon the principal? As you BUY meat, you buy and legitimize this "system" of misery.

These mechanisms allow modification of thought perception which lead to such things as the aborting of human babies! Self-inflicted genocide! Astounding!

What will the next big advancement of humanity be?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Laughing out loud!

In the US, mcdonalds serves up billions of these little misery bombs...brightly wrapped and served by a grotesque clown character.

Eat up, Kiddies!

Eating animals is eating one's own. It is not a FOOD SOURCE per se, but cannibalism.

Consider another source of food. Plants.

Along the YIN YANG meridian, plants are opposite/complementary in most respects. Life forms, sure, and many realize now sentient.

However, plants and humans are symbiotic! One respirates Co2 and the other o2. One cannot live without the other!

Plants take non organic elements from the earth and make them digestible for humans. In fact, the only true source of minerals for human consumption come from plants. Elemental sources cannot be metabolized and end up causing sickness and death in humans.

Laughing out loud!

Human faeces is PLANT FERTILIZER! That which is SHAT is life giving food to plants!

Humans and plants have evolved together. There is much WISDOM which plants can impart to humans. One need only EAT!

Laughing out loud!

Let's create a small food chain scenario easily accomplished by MOST first world inhabitants.

You have, or acquire, a small plot of land. The land is fertile or reasonably so...or, worst case, can be rehabilitated with a small amount of knowledge of earthworms .

You plant a variety of green plants and vegetables...the type that humans normally consume. The cost of seeds is very small and through some miracle of life, you discover that the plants which grow also produce seeds...which can be kept for future growings! Food for now and the means of production for later!

You learn that by selecting the type of plants grown, you can make an ideal combination specific to your blood type and nutritional constitution. After some study, you learn that food can, indeed, be your "medicine"...just like that old guy said a few thousand years ago!

Laughing out loud!

After a period of systemic adjustment, you realize that your health has improved and you are bursting with abundant energy. You are never ill! No colds, no flu...no flesh eating bacteria!

The idea that one would need health insurance (socialist or private) becomes an absurdity!

At some point, you realize that the digestive tract you inherited required constant grazing...such as elephants, horses and cows do...and learn of JUICING! Most of the nutritional value can be extracted and made portable along with other benefits. You adopt this regimen after carefully weighing the pros and negatives and find an increase of super-charged energy....along with a small mountain of grindings from the juicing process...from vegetables and plants grown by yourself, with your labor...in your own garden!

You elect to form a relationship with a CHICKEN. Or maybe TWO CHICKENS!

You find that the chickens greedily eat the fibrous grinding remains along with bugs and anything else they can find...and, in exchange, give you a small nutrient bomb of proteins, high quality fats, organic minerals and other good stuff. They, in essence, extract the rest of the nutrition from the vegetables and produce it in a highly assimilatable form...complete amino acid profile, proportioned correctly.

Seeing an opportunity, you add this marvel of human nutrition to your green juicing! Raw!

Because the egg is UNFERTILIZED, there are no karmic issues with its consumption! Because you are providing a safe and healthy environment to the chicken; supplying it with healthy vegetables grown from the sweat of YOUR BROW...your toil...it is a perfectly symbiotic relationship!

Quid pro quo!

Now, the chicken ages and stops laying.

What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO??

Why, you continue to care for the chicken...to feed it and respect it during its "life" as you did while it was producing eggs! RESPECT, YO!

YOU DO NOT EAT THE CHICKEN! It lives out its life according to its NATURE and GENETIC PROGRAMMING. You are living according to the NATURAL LAW OF BOTH!

Why? Because you are living in the NOW! There being no timeline, there is only NOW. The killing of the chicken affects the Eggs...ALL the eggs concurrently. Betray the chicken NOW and poison the eggs NOW.

And you don't want to eat poisoned eggs, do you?

It's really very simple, actually.

So now, by the sweat of your own brow (and admittedly, taking very little actual sweat) you are feeding yourself and have taken responsibility for your own health. You are full of energy and brimming with positive POWER!

You grow your own food, maintain your own health and have no need for the pharma or poisoned ag industry!

At the same time, your need for fiat has been reduced significantly, so the need to toil in some dreary cubicle has been reduced or eliminated! You spend your life in the sunshine, in nature, producing and consuming your own labor.

How can ANY entity tax the fruit of your labors? Sadly, the various bureaucracies are not set up to process CHICKENS!

Laughing out loud!

This is but one very simple action ANYONE can take which changes their lives completely and allows them to take a new path. This earth truly is a biblical GARDEN OF EDEN!

Profoundly simple, and now laid out clearly for all to see!

He seems to have a fixation on "GLP", he got some things right, and some very wrong, as expected if you try to play the "this is what people consider a mystery and a hidden truth so it will bring me more people to lead" game

Take this for example:



WE aren't the problem...YOU are.

No one forces you into your routine(s), you CHOOSE.

Just remember one thing above all...wherever you are...whatever you do...

you are here because of your choices and beliefs.

we are just the "gatekeepers".

One other thing...If you knew what it tasted like, you would take the deal as well.


No, you are not, you did not had that choice, that's a blatant lie, it's common to think of if you go with the reincarnation and choosing what other experience you want to live on next life, which is unproven entirely



we are just the "gatekeepers"

No

The correct term is "Kai" as in "keeper of the earth" not "gate keeper', because a gate keeper is just the guy standing at the door opening it for the real important people, he doesn't get to listen or know what happens inside once the real thing walks through that door, he got it wrong there.

He heard about this somewhere but he failed to understand the concept, it got lost in translation...

But don't quote me on that :shielddeflect:



YOU create your own reality...but you are HIGHLY suggestible.

HIGHLY.

Childish in so many ways...and you adults are children who never grew up...to reality...all busy telling each other the "beautiful lie".

Yes, he knows about this very well, totally true :heart: He has open eyes, for sure, unless he got this from someone else, there's always that dangerous situation.

[Mashika]

What relationship do you enjoy with your kids

What do they spend their time doing?

What is there future?

The only way WE go down, is if you WAKE UP...and that isn't EVER going to happen.

Look at the stupid comments on here, and so far not ONE intelligent question!

you can learn because, as a man of honour, I will answer truthfully.

but, alas, as one once stated...

"the truth...the TRUTH...you can't handle the truth..."

laugh out loud


Why so much anger? No one asked him to provide all that information, yet he requested AMA, then once people ask, he gets angry? And he called them immature and kids, big contradiction here "laugh out loud", what's the point?

[Mashika]

Close the door when the winter winds blow cold!

No, he got it wrong here, sounds reasonable but it is not, the real way was something around "touching you back to back so cold goes away", in the actual winter cold, closing the door does very little, as the air freezes inside anyway. He picked this up from something he doesn't understand. When freezing cold, you get naked and embrace other person, so the heat between your bodies is shared and you survive the night

This is important in the way he tried to explain here, but i don't know if he understands what he was expressing, because it seems he got a bad explanation of it and went with it.

"When the wind blows cold, is the last moment you want to close that spiritual, emotional, natural, human door"

[Journeyman]

Here's the link
(https://ia802300.us.archive.org/8/items/rofschildv1/IAmARofschildAxeMeAQuestion.html)
The premise is that the forum thread starter is a "Rothschild", in other words a very high-ranking member of the STS hierarchy. No idea who he actually is.

I originally clicked on this thread to see how many people were tricked by a sophisticated LARP, but found this guy spitting some major knowledge at times.

The tone won't be for everyone, but I found it pretty funny. It starts slowly, mostly with insults, but picks up once the good questions start getting asked. Took me two days on and off to read and it was completely worth it.
I took a quick look, as you say it's a long read so I just took a taster.

I did catch myself reacting to some of his barbs. There's been a couple of supposed 'elites' dispelling patronising wisdom to the serfs, whether LARPS or genuine it's difficult at times not to respond emotionally when someone is basically boasting about their parasitical status. However there's the signs of an interesting conversation taking place amidst the jibes and maybe this was someone's chosen medium to put out their worldview. Or who knows, maybe it's for real. Either way, it looks of interest so thanks for sharing it here. :)

[Mashika]

it's protocol, by the way.

doesn't your computer highlight spelling errors? Do you care how you appear to others?


And yet... he made tons of those same mistakes, even i can tell, with my third hand English

I think you want to take a second, a third, and then a forth look into his words.

But i'm not a Rothschild! So what could i possibly know?

[Anchor]

I am re-reading this and boy it is certainly different the second time.



Well, Reptilian is an emotionally charged word here, and elsewhere. So please forget the reptilian reference for now and consider the following "facts" and "questions"...

Who are the "Children of Israel?" Why was their seed blessed? Why were they told not to inter-marry with other people and to circumcise their sons for identification? Why were they told to preserve their geneology? Where did Adam and Eve's sons go to get their wives, if they were the only "humans" on earth?

Many scientists believe that modern man evolved from ape-like primates. They have much proof to back up their theories, including modern blood analysis and comparative studies between modern man and lower anthripoids, such as the chimpanzee and the Rhesus monkey.

It has been proven that the majority of mankind (85%) has a blood factor common with the rhesus monkey. This is called rhesus positive blood. Usually shortened to Rh positive. This factor is completely independent from the A, B, 0 blood types.

In the study of genetics, we find that we can only inherit what our ancestors had...except in the case of environmental or selective mutation. We can have any of numerous combinations of traits inherited from all of our ancestors. Nothing more and nothing less. Therefore, if man and ape evolved from a common ancestor, their blood would have evolved the same way. Blood factors are transmitted with much more biological precision than any other characteristic. It could be argued from scientific scrutiny that modern man and rhesus monkey have had a common ancestor sometime in the "past". All other earthly primates share this Rh factor. But this leaves out the people who are Rh negative. If all mankind evolved from the same ancestor their blood would be compatible. Where did the Rh negatives come from? If they are not the descendants of prehistoric man, could they be the descendants of planetary travelers?

All animals and other living creatures known to man can breed with any other of their species. Relative size and color makes no difference. Why does infant's haemolytic disease occur in humans if all humans are the same species? Haemolytic disease is the allergic reaction that occurs when an Rh negative mother is carrying a Rh positive child. Her blood builds up antibodies to destroy an ALIEN substance (the same way it would a virus), thereby destroying the infant. Why would a mother's body reject her own offspring? Nowhere else in nature does this occur naturally. This same problem does occur in mules - a cross between a horse and donkey. This fact alone points to the distinct possibility of a cross-breeding between two similar but genetically different species.

Why does "science" (ie, the little peoples science)fail to explain how Rh negative is possible? Those familiar with blood factors, admit that Rh - humans must at minimum, be a mutation (if not descendants) of a different ancestor. If a mutation, what caused the mutation? Why does it continue with the exact characteristics? Why does it so violently reject the Rh factor, if it was within their own ancestry? Who was this ancestor? Difficulties in determining ethnology are largely overcome by the use of blood group data, for they are a single gene characteristic and not affected by the environment.

The Basque people of Spain and France have the highest percentage of Rh negative blood. About 30% have (rr) Rh negative and about 60% carry one (r) negative gene. The average is only 15%-Rh negative, while some groups have very little. The Oriental jewish people of Israel, also have a high percent Rh negative, although most other Oriental people have only about 1% Rh negative. The Samaritans and the Black Cochin jewish also have a high percentage of Rh negative blood, although again the Rh negative blood is rare among most black people.

Could the Basque people be one of these colonies? Or could it have been the original colony on earth? The origin of the Basques is unknown. Their language is unlike any other European language. Some believe that Basque was the original language of the book of Genesis. Some believe it was the original language of the world and possibly of the creator.

Genesis 6:2 "The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and took them wives, all of which they chose." Who were the children of these marriages? Genesis 6:4 "God came into the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, and the same became mighty of old." From the King James Bible dictionary we find: "menchildren - men of Israel, male children of God, not children of man - Ex. 34:23." Ex. 34:7 states "The iniquity of the father will be unto the children unto the fourth generation." It is plain that something is inherited, could it be the blood?

Blood is mentioned more often than any other word in the Bible, except God. These two words you will find on almost every page, blood and God! (The blood of the Gods?) This message has been written for thousands of years. There is a connection between the blood and the Gods.

The American Indians had the tradition of making good friends, "blood brothers", if they thought they were worthy. Could this tradition have been for a reason? Could they have actually been checking to see if they were blood brothers (the same type blood)? The clumping (aggulation) that occurs when Rh positive and Rh negative blood are mixed is visible to the naked eye. Could they have been told, by their ancestors, that their blood was different from that of the rest of mankind except for their brothers and sisters, from other tribes, scattered throughout the earth. Indian tradition declares that their ancestors were of cosmic origin. The Indian totem pole is actually a family genealogy.

Why all this preoccupation with genealogy among different people scattered throughout the earth? No other animal on earth has this preoccupation with ancestry. Where did this tradition come from? People scattered throughout the earth, who have had no-known contact with each other all simultaneously have the urge to chart their family tree? Why? How important could this have been to primitive cave men? Struggling to survive, to chart their genealogy? They had no understanding of modern genetics and inheritance. So why should they preserve their genealogy? Were they told to preserve their heritage, until a future date when they would return and it would be understood? Until a time, like now, when their descendent would be able to understand the message they were leaving.

Although they probably didn't realize the importance of preserving their genealogy, they may have believed that future generations would understand. Are we that future generation? Was there a message left for us to understand? Do we have the courage to look for the answer?

Do we really want to know or would we rather keep our heads buried in the sand? What we don't know will still affect us. You will not see unless you look. Only through knowledge will we find truth.

Rh negative blood has not evolved on earth in the natural course of events.

For many years people have been searching for the wrong thing. Could the true "missing link" actually be man himself? The unknown link between earth and the stars - hybrid man. Is man the missing link between primate and extraterrestrial?

Upon x-raying the tomb of Makare, high priestess of Ammon, it was found that the infant buried with her labeled Prince Moutenihet was actually a female hamadryas baboon. An examination of Makare showed she had given birth shortly before dying.

Dear Bickle! Start to consider the possibility that you, the Rh positive primate that you are...have only just begun your evolutionary journey. Consider that you are evolving as fast as your little helix can regenerate!

The "others" who you so misunderstand have engaged you to our mutual benefit and survival!

[araucaria]

It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.
Someone will have to explain how plants react when they read that you are intent on eating them in even larger quantities than before because you have stopped eating meat.

[Mashika]

It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.
Someone will have to explain how plants react when they read that you are intent on eating them in even larger quantities than before because you have stopped eating meat.

What a conundrum indeed

When i was around 14, a cow got killed for my birthday, i stood there, watching all of it, second by second.

There was this incredible sadness in the air, and then i look at the cow and she was looking a me, her eyes connected directly to mine, and she was in a very odd state, as if she "knew" and she locked eyes with me and did not let go, then the guy came with the gun and basically shot her in the forehead, the cow went down and closed her eyes, and that was it. "for me"

If plants go through that same stuff, then we are way worse indeed.

I guess we are going to have to eat air from now own

[Bubu]

"For many years people have been searching for the wrong thing. Could the true "missing link" actually be man himself? The unknown link between earth and the stars - hybrid man. Is man the missing link between primate and extraterrestrial?"

The missing link mentioned so many times refer to the evolutionary link between primate/ chimpanzee and man. and not the link between primate and extraterrestrial. there is no said evolutionary link because its were the hybridizing between chimpanzee and extraterrestrial happened. So yes man is the link between primates and extraterrestrial but its not missing.

[Bubu]

By the way all men are product of hybridizing Brown, black, white. Think of it as different mixes of many experimentation. THERE IS NO ESPECIAL RACE OR SONS OF GODS. You can put this article on the lies and brainwashing category. Just like the bible and any other. Some truths as bait and then the lies hooks you.

[araucaria]

It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.
Someone will have to explain how plants react when they read that you are intent on eating them in even larger quantities than before because you have stopped eating meat.

What a conundrum indeed

When i was around 14, a cow got killed for my birthday, i stood there, watching all of it, second by second.

There was this incredible sadness in the air, and then i look at the cow and she was looking a me, her eyes connected directly to mine, and she was in a very odd state, as if she "knew" and she locked eyes with me and did not let go, then the guy came with the gun and basically shot her in the forehead, the cow went down and closed her eyes, and that was it. "for me"

If plants go through that same stuff, then we are way worse indeed.

I guess we are going to have to eat air from now own
It is a conundrum, and whatever the answer, it cannot be imperative veganism. There would seem to be some kind of permission involved. Take those shoals of dolphins answering the fishermen’s call. They wouldn’t do that if they did not consent. There has to be something in it for the ‘victim’, some kind of communion sacrament that works both ways: participating in a greater consciousness or something like that. If so, then whatever we are doing wrong with respect to animals we are also doing wrong with respect to plants. Hardcore vegans object to drinking cow’s milk, but they don’t object to their mother’s milk, yet the gift is of the same order, or should be.

[Strat]

While I'm not vegan/vegetarian I can absolutely understand why people choose that lifestyle. That being said, reading this interview is painful. The lexicon used is that of a teen who plays Call of Duty all day or someone in their early 20s who 'knows everything.' It's hard for me to understand why any educated person would give this interview any serious consideration. This is just bonkers. If you want to be vegan, find a vegan who has their head screwed on straight.

[Constance]

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[Mare]

Well said Constance, I couldn't have put it better myself!

[Constance]

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[waxamillionpehhgasus]

Looks like some people skimmed over this crucial part of my first post:


but found this guy spitting some major knowledge [U]at times.

I'm talking about plants. If I was talking about metaphysical concepts or blood types or other stuff, I would have posted in a different section.



It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.
Someone will have to explain how plants react when they read that you are intent on eating them in even larger quantities than before because you have stopped eating meat.

You're failing to realize something big: that by eating meat, you're actually eating a higher number plants than if you were to just eat plants.

You also seem to have not read the excerpt from the thread I posted in the OP, or else you would realize that plants do not necessarily mind being eaten in the first place. If you read the book, you will understand why that is in a more specific sense.

Otherwise, perhaps watch a factory farming video in the background the next time you eat meat. You won't mind, right?

[Bill Ryan]

You're posing lazy questions and making incorrect assumptions due to your lack of knowledge.Hey. :)

This is your second of just two posts following your 'Welcome to Avalon' reply, which we appreciated. You might be surprised what many members here do know. :P

Cool it. A good piece of advice may be to make friends first, and then have animated, passionate discussions with your friends.

But — make friends first. :flower:

:focus:

[Strat]

You also seem to have not read the excerpt from the thread I posted in the OP, or else you would realize that plants do not necessarily mind being eaten in the first place. If you read the book, you will understand why that is in a more specific sense.


I don't mean to hold your feet to the fire I'm just curious about your beliefs: does this apply to only certain plants? Like some plants mind whereas others don't? Or is it across the board that plants don't mind being eaten?

No disrespect, but it's relatively well known that plants have natural defences against critters.

[Hym]

You're posing lazy questions and making incorrect assumptions due to your lack of knowledge.Hey. :)

This is your second of just two posts following your 'Welcome to Avalon' reply, which we appreciated. You might be surprised what many members here do know. :P

Cool it. A good piece of advice may be to make friends first, and then have animated, passionate discussions with your friends.

But — make friends first. :flower:

:focus:

I agree with Bill's take on chilling with the aggression.
It does little to no good in advancing a discussion by attacking,
and it takes some more thought and ingenuity to prompt someone else to see things differently.

That's up to you, inspiring new perspectives and initiating interesting discussions, more than those who respond to this thought provoking thread you've started.

Back To The Topic

[DeDukshyn]

... A good piece of advice may be to make friends first, and then have animated, passionate discussions with your friends.
But — make friends first. :flower:
...


Best advice ever. This should be added to the "welcome" thread for new members. Its much easier, and more effective to have a thoughtful debate with people you've gained some respect from and for.

I learned from this guy once - it was a business learning that applies to everything - he was a new manager and told the CEO that he wouldn't be doing anything for a month but observing and taking notes - no decisions. The CEO obliged. If people asked him to solve problems and make decisions he just responded that he wanted things to continue status quo, and to please solve the problems as they would have before he got there ... my observation of this was some of the best management training I ever had.

It goes a long way to just get to know people first.

[Sue (Ayt)]

I don't mean to hold your feet to the fire I'm just curious about your beliefs: does this apply to only certain plants? Like some plants mind whereas others don't? Or is it across the board that plants don't mind being eaten?

No disrespect, but it's relatively well known that plants have natural defences against critters.

That book made quite an impression on me years ago when I read it. I don't remember it all - just bits and pieces, but as I recall, plants desire to be eaten by beings of higher consciousness as it contributes to their own collective evolvement. (or something like that!)

[iota]

so, two things ...

one, i've always felt "connected" to plants and "aware" of the sentience in a very different, nevertheless, REAL way ...

i don't have a green thumb or anything, mostly 'm not very "physically" oriented, meaning i'm a terrible friend to notice your new haircut or outfit or whatever is going on physically with you, BUT i KNOW if you're ok or not from your "hello" and if you're in trouble, i'm probably going to be the one to call you out of the blue

so ...

BUT along those lines, when i first realized i was "picking" up the energies of people around me? i KNEW i'd be in BIG trouble if i didn't figure out a way to release them, and plants were always the way, especially trees ... but from the VERY first time, it seemed only right to ASK first if it was ok to do that?

and from the very first time i asked? i got that "warm" feeling (physically warm) that is very, very, similar to the feeling i identified with the Holy Spirit or Source, when i connected there ... almost indistinguishable

so i talk to my trees when i'm "present" enough to notice them, and they usually respond back with that warm physical feeling i'm describing ... its all very comforting really.

TWO, is this thread ONLY about discussing plants and their sentience and being vegan? or can we discuss other points in the thread?

i'm reading it, and i got a HUGE insight right off the bat that is turning my world perspective on its heel

but don't want to bring up if its going to be off topic
:flower:

PS really want to thank you for posting this and the link ... a few years ago, i had done an in depth study of the Hidden Hand ... 1 and 2. saved and studied both and had heard of this Roffschild (his spelling) Thread but it was gone from that forum and not part of my collection. ... so nice find! and thanks!

[Sirus]

Humans are supposed to eat animals from both a biological and metaphysical pov. Of course, the way animals (and other foodstuffs) are treated today - without respect and gratitude is out of alignment with our better nature.

[Michael Moewes]

You elect to form a relationship with a CHICKEN. Or maybe TWO CHICKENS!

You find that the chickens greedily eat the fibrous grinding remains along with bugs and anything else they can find...and, in exchange, give you a small nutrient bomb of proteins, high quality fats, organic minerals and other good stuff. They, in essence, extract the rest of the nutrition from the vegetables and produce it in a highly assimilatable form...complete amino acid profile, proportioned correctly.

Seeing an opportunity, you add this marvel of human nutrition to your green juicing! Raw!

Because the egg is UNFERTILIZED, there are no karmic issues with its consumption! Because you are providing a safe and healthy environment to the chicken; supplying it with healthy vegetables grown from the sweat of YOUR BROW...your toil...it is a perfectly symbiotic relationship!Now, here is the exact point where you turned form Vegan to vegetarin.
A vegan, by explanation, is a human who doesn't consume any kind of animal derived products. E.g. leather, sheepwool e.t.c.
I don't point my self a Vegan because I still use some produce coming from animals.
But no cow dairy at all.
I became a Vegetarian right after becoming a Buddhist. it's just logical. do no harm.

[Michael Moewes]

Humans are supposed to eat animals from both a biological and metaphysical pov. Of course, the way animals (and other foodstuffs) are treated today - without respect and gratitude is out of alignment with our better nature.

B.S. in it's purest form

[DeDukshyn]

Humans are supposed to eat animals from both a biological and metaphysical pov. Of course, the way animals (and other foodstuffs) are treated today - without respect and gratitude is out of alignment with our better nature.

Well humans are omnivorous - our physical systems from our teeth to our digestive tract to our vitamin and essential mineral requirements are suited to an omnivorous diet. That said, we do also understand nutrition to a point, and most of us have enough a variety of food available, that a plant only diet is well within the realm of suitable, as long as one applies some understanding, knowledge and science to it to avoid any deficiencies. So, I'd say that "humans are supposed to eat animals" is a fair bit of a stretch (to put it a bit more politely than Michael just did above ;)), but rather, "designed to accommodate eating animals" might be a better way to put it.

I have found that most arguments against eating meat come down to the current horrific factory farming practices we have allowed to flourish to make meat eating a commonplace thing. When I was a child, we were poor, and lived in a very rural area of northern interior of BC where you get one short growing season for vegetables and sub zero temperatures for 5 months of the year.

My father hunted so we could afford to eat during the winter. He was taught by the native hunters to "never attempt a kill unless you are confident you can do it with one shot, or the meat will be filled with fear". The animals lived a full and natural life then died quickly - better than I can say those wild and free animals slowly starving to death or just slowly getting too old to care for themselves until they are eaten alive by a cougar or what have you.

My cousins had a ranch and raised cattle and chickens. The animals were free range (proper free range - hundreds of acres, wooded and field areas to roam in as they pleased), were loved and well cared for their whole lives. So to solidly equate eating animals with torture and suffering of animals clearly isn't always the case at all.

Perhaps many have never considered that there are alternatives to supporting the horrific factory farming practices while retaining the ability to eat some meat. I believe we should all take more of a stance against such practices - yes it will drive up meat prices, but so be it - the western diet on average consumes way more meat than is needed for optimal nutrition. The quantity eaten in the western diet is actually quite wasteful.

[Constance]

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[Constance]

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[DeDukshyn]

Put this together with the work of Tony Wright. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFaTk2-mFGI&ab_channel=AlternativeView)..

To be clear, I am not saying that we evolved from apes. I'm just pointing out the physiological similarities.

Things that make you go hmmmmm....



46075

Sorry Constance, but apes are omnivores - those are the teeth of an omnivore ... Jane Goodall (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall) is considered to be the world's foremost expert on chimpanzees ...

"One of the earliest and most significant discoveries made by Jane Goodall was that chimpanzees hunt for and eat meat. Prior to this, chimpanzees were believed to be vegetarians." - https://janegoodall.ca/our-stories/10-things-chimpanzees-eat/

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5870195ca558b100f3782c699bec4f60-c


Even cute little bunny rabbits have been caught on video eating meat, and I'd wager their teeth are rather those of a vegetarian, as that is obviously their primary diet.

I also saw a video of a deer eating a bird the other day ...

EDIT: found it ...

sQOQdBLHrLk

[Constance]

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[Sirus]

Humans are supposed to eat animals from both a biological and metaphysical pov. Of course, the way animals (and other foodstuffs) are treated today - without respect and gratitude is out of alignment with our better nature.

Well humans are omnivorous - our physical systems from our teeth to our digestive tract to our vitamin and essential mineral requirements are suited to an omnivorous diet. That said, we do also understand nutrition to a point, and most of us have enough a variety of food available, that a plant only diet is well within the realm of suitable, as long as one applies some understanding, knowledge and science to it to avoid any deficiencies. So, I'd say that "humans are supposed to eat animals" is a fair bit of a stretch (to put it a bit more politely than Michael just did above ;)), but rather, "designed to accommodate eating animals" might be a better way to put it.

I have found that most arguments against eating meat come down to the current horrific factory farming practices we have allowed to flourish to make meat eating a commonplace thing. When I was a child, we were poor, and lived in a very rural area of northern interior of BC where you get one short growing season for vegetables and sub zero temperatures for 5 months of the year.

My father hunted so we could afford to eat during the winter. He was taught by the native hunters to "never attempt a kill unless you are confident you can do it with one shot, or the meat will be filled with fear". The animals lived a full and natural life then died quickly - better than I can say those wild and free animals slowly starving to death or just slowly getting too old to care for themselves until they are eaten alive by a cougar or what have you.

My cousins had a ranch and raised cattle and chickens. The animals were free range (proper free range - hundreds of acres, wooded and field areas to roam in as they pleased), were loved and well cared for their whole lives. So to solidly equate eating animals with torture and suffering of animals clearly isn't always the case at all.

Perhaps many have never considered that there are alternatives to supporting the horrific factory farming practices while retaining the ability to eat some meat. I believe we should all take more of a stance against such practices - yes it will drive up meat prices, but so be it - the western diet on average consumes way more meat than is needed for optimal nutrition. The quantity eaten in the western diet is actually quite wasteful.

Humans are supposed to eat meat.
If they did not, their DNA would change and they would evolve into other beings.
Vegans require supplements and Omnivores do not - all things being equal, of course.

I totally agree with you regarding farming practices. Animals are best hunted in the wild.

[Constance]

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[DeDukshyn]

Put this together with the work of Tony Wright. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFaTk2-mFGI&ab_channel=AlternativeView)..

To be clear, I am not saying that we evolved from apes. I'm just pointing out the physiological similarities.

Things that make you go hmmmmm....



46075

Sorry Constance, but apes are omnivores - those are the teeth of an omnivore ... Jane Goodall (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall) is considered to be the world's foremost expert on chimpanzees ...

"One of the earliest and most significant discoveries made by Jane Goodall was that chimpanzees hunt for and eat meat. Prior to this, chimpanzees were believed to be vegetarians." - https://janegoodall.ca/our-stories/10-things-chimpanzees-eat/



Thanks for that but the reason I made mention of "apes" was because I didn't want there to be any confusion that we are on the same evolutionary pathway as animals.

I was only using the word "ape" in its most general term because there is a collective belief that our evolution has arisen from the ape and I want to distinguish us from apes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape).

Change the word from "apes" to primates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_primates_by_population) and then to be exact, "frugivores" of the primate family.

Jane Goodall may be an expert in her field but her expertise is with just one species, Chimpanzees (https://chimpsnw.org/2013/07/chimpanzee-teeth/) - they are just one branch in the species of primates. Yes, the picture in the chart does not accurately represent frugivores. It is misleading. Perhaps a picture of the Spider monkey's teeth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_monkey) would have been a more pure representation (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.1330680407).

From a metaphysical viewpoint, animals are just us in another form. To eat an animal is like eating one of our own fingers on our hand. To be spiritual is to honour the spirit-in-u-all.

As Michael Moewes said, Do no harm. You cannot honour another being if you kill and eat it.


To be fair, all apes are omnivores. Gorillas are considered the "most vegetarian" of the apes, and their diet is very high in insects but they also do hunt and eat monkeys occasionally. Spider monkey would have been better for your chart, but some keen people might still point out that our closest genetic relatives are apes, not monkeys. As an aside, I don't really think that claiming that the "higher" the species is on an evolutionary path the "less meat they eat" holds any water - whales, dolphins and apes are probably our closest relatives in terms of intelligence, and they're all either carnivores or omnivores.

From a metaphysical viewpoint plants are also us just in another form. I guess to eat plants might be akin to eating our own hair? ;)

Ultimately, from some understanding I have gleaned from some ancient texts and like to humour from time to time, for true humans (which isn't us or any of the "human-like" creations that we have direct archeological evidence for) eating is a pleasure of the physical realms, and not necessary for survival. However, that only could be possible if we have the ability to get energy directly from our Source, which would give us a "god-like" status, but I do believe a "human being" in the truest sense is this, and may have been this at one time -- we tend to have called them "gods". The "being" in human being doesn't properly describe us in our current state ... perhaps "human surviving" would be a more apt term? ;)

That said, moving to eating less overall, and moving to eat plants does seem to be an appropriate evolutionary path for us at this point.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




Humans are supposed to eat meat.
If they did not, their DNA would change and they would evolve into other beings.
...

I don't really share this view; we are always evolving whether we like it or not ... there's a bit more on my view in my post above to Constance.

[Constance]

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[DeDukshyn]

I don't really think that claiming that the "higher" the species is on an evolutionary path the "less meat they eat" holds any water - whales, dolphins and apes are probably our closest relatives in terms of intelligence, and they're all either carnivores or omnivores.

Just for clarity's sake, I was never professing that the higher the animals are on an evolutionary path, the less meat it would eat. I consider animals to be on a different evolutionary path to ourselves.
The chart was purely for a physiological comparison to show how similar a frugivore's physiology is with ours, ...

I get that, but our physiology is more similar to omnivores, as I pointed out.





The animals that you alluded to as being of "intelligence", which of the 9 intelligences (https://blog.adioma.com/9-types-of-intelligence-infographic/) are you referring to?

My point was higher intelligence, or evolution as we observe, has nothing to do with diet.






From a metaphysical viewpoint plants are also us just in another form. I guess to eat plants might be akin to eating our own hair? ;)

Ha ha! Touché. The reality is that plants want to merge with us if our energies are pure so that they can experience and express themselves through us whereas animals will run for their lives if they know that our intent is to kill them.
I cannot say that plants don't want us to eat them ... as I haven't been able to have any detailed enough conversations with them to specifically ask that, but I do know that most plants have both survival and defense mechanisms that they employ to try to keep themselves alive as long as possible.




Ultimately, from some understanding I have gleaned from some ancient texts and like to humour from time to time, for true humans (which isn't us or any of the "human-like" creations that we have direct archeological evidence for) eating is a pleasure of the physical realms, and not necessary for survival. However, that only could be possible if we have the ability to get energy directly from our Source, which would give us a "god-like" status, but I do believe a "human being" in the truest sense is this, and may have been this at one time -- we tend to have called them "gods". The "being" in human being doesn't properly describe us in our current state ... perhaps "human surviving" would be a more apt term? ;)



Yes. I can understand why you would say this. It appears that the majority of the worlds people are in a state of survival. However, we are already everything we are meant to be, we just need it drawn out of us; nurtured and nourished with nature, soul, food. We are universal, supernatural, multidimensional, cosmic, eternal and infinite spiritual beings.

Our potential has not been stripped from our DNA ;) And I agree, realization of this is a tool to set us back on the correct evolutionary path. Short of some extraordinary "event", it'll be a little while before we as a whole species get everything in balance - but of course that is no excuse to not start right now at a personal level. <insert link to Contance's empowerment thread here>

...

[Strat]

Things that make you go hmmmmm....


I've seen this before but I don't buy it. Only recently have humans had the ability to choose a diet accordingly. Every indigenous culture on the planet would eat what they could get their hands on. The most physically fit people on the planet (as far as I'm aware) are the Masai. I don't necessarily attribute this to their high meat diet, it probably has a lot to do with genetics. Personally, I just couldn't look a native in the eye and tell them they are going against nature.

Like you said previously, this could go back and forth forever. I could 'text wall' a reply but I think you're a cool person and we have more in common than not. These debates can bring out nasty behaviour and I won't go down that road. Also, you wouldn't have to twist my arm to try vegan dishes! I eat it all, I love food! I have a vegetarian friend and it's great because I get introduced to new foods and I have a chance to expand my pallet. Her and I get along great, I grow the food and she has fun new ways to eat it. I'm no slouch myself, I could live off of tabbouleh for the rest of my life and be happy as a clam. I'm drooling like Homer Simpson just thinking about it. Smear some hummus on it too and my god man...

Maybe I'm brainwashed, maybe you drank the cool aide. At the end of the day, I'm not sure it's a debate worthy of having. In this world we have bigger fish to fry...err onions to caramelize. hyuck hyuck dumb joke I couldn't resist. :bearhug: If any of you vegan Avalonians are in my area I will be happy to put together a vegan picnic for you. I don't judge. I'd like to have a vegan critique my skills anyway. The only question is do you want it in the woods with the critters or on the sandy beach with the sound of the waves.

[Constance]

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[Strat]

I look forward to sharing a vegan meal with you one day Strat, woods or the beach. :bowing:

Absolutely! I have the food grown naturally, straight from the Florida sun and birthed by mother Gaia, no pesticides or herbicides. I'm a dick on the internet but I dare say I'm charming in real life. Much love my friend. :heart:

[Constance]

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[Sue (Ayt)]

The Secret Life of Plants really is an eye-opening book, well worth reading.
And here is a free download:
The Secret Life Of Plants (https://archive.org/details/TheSecretLifeOfPlants_201811/mode/2up)

[Constance]

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[Innocent Warrior]

I don’t think it’s a debate worth having either, for a different reason than Strat’s. (no doubt a lot of vegans would consider it a debate worth having and I’m sure many of those who research the totalitarians’ agendas would be compelled to challenge vegans just as passionately, if not more). This debate would require extensive research to avoid it being a pointless exercise in cherry picking on both sides.

A good example is the graphic of the mouths, that’s done the rounds over and over again. It’s interesting at a glance but one of those mouths is not like the others - we’re highly domesticated. The comparison has virtually no value at all, other than to point out our mouth is similar to other omnivores with hands, which is also of very little value. Teeth can tell us a lot though...

uVKVEWX5i6U

I wonder how many experts and how many disciplines it would take to settle this debate? Would a single in-depth and thorough report from one discipline do it? Or many from various disciplines? I don’t know but I don’t think either side of the debate does itself any justice while in convince mode.

[Agape]

Just a small note though I’m so happy you enjoy the discussion on veganism and help to address those lasting but critical problems about how to feed humanity
and by all the statistical logic and experience known to me, there may be countless readers against few contributors to the topic because there isn’t any “one diet fitting all”,
there isn’t any “one solution fitting all” so far and every human being is born with different kind of predisposition in their genes allowing them to feed themselves on certain proteins, whether plant or animal based but not on “everything”,
think of generations of human ancestors trying to do their best to adapt here for millions of years who have literally tried it all ..

mono diets like wheat, corn or barley ( examples) that turned to “staples” through cultural ( and agricultural) cultivation for thousands of years, fruit and herb based diets of the tropics and subtropics,
even nut based diets, not to mention milk and diary based diets

so at one hand it leads to aka “scientific conclusion” that human being is a kind of omnivore but realize how selective you are about your diet - so considering yourself selective, specialized type of eater may be one of the better qualified answers
rather than “common consensus”
and claims on which diet suits you the best.

Before I get to conundrum of my little post here that is “better don’t open the link in the original post” - and I don’t mean it as such,
of course please check it by yourself anyway but it isn’t about veganism after all,
it’s another “the Rothschild” impostor claiming to be above the “human equation” and there had been countless instances of such impostors on the net and its forums since it came to existence,

and I do find it not only tiring but offensive to every educated audience.


Back to the notorious human feeding problem: it really is difficult to advice on without knowing individual condition of the individual,
so sorry to repeat this kind of cliche but most “public posters” tend to overlook the “elephant in the room”, that is bigger half of humanity who strive on various, countless specialized diets ( forms of nutrition) because none of us are “true omnivores” as such, our enzymatic production and metabolism are unique from individual to individual, there is not even “shared familiarity” in diets among close family members ( parents to children or siblings ) ,
prevalence of various food allergies is very high in today’s human cultures with the observable quotient of overfeeding => food allergies increase that’s ultimately traceable in generation or two, regardless your ethnicity and so forth,

so as a bottom line: no, most human beings can not “eat everything” not even by default and many are hurting themselves with endless trials and errors and amounts and types of food recommended by “someone else” before they become somewhat experienced and aware of what does their organism need, in particular.


I do not wish to hurt anyone so shooting through the empty space here but seeing there’s interesting debate going on here, I’ve eventually opened the link in the OP post, seen it’s an old but repeated scam ( including discussion about superior bloodlines) but even glimpse of the “style” of the discussion on the archive page,
vulgar, looking as if permitting questions from uneducated audience who can’t spell but addressing fairly advanced and complicated topics,
all with manifested sting of “inherent superiority”.

You have to pardon me if I think that the discussion ( as per OP link) would not pass here and the “highly excited” style of the original poster himself indicate that it may be the same person trying to convey “bigger message to humanity” by posing as hidden VIP with “best bloodline” which itself is gross and more delusional idea than all the rest.

I believe that Bill Ryan and this forum has been cross tested on these topics repeatedly and long enough though obviously, some people ( and ideas on how to run the world ) do not give up, ever though I believe Bill and his team had done the best to keep up with some of the latest research in various science fields ( nearly impossible :) ),
most of my friends in various fields of expertise are struggling with the same so do I but it’s definitely more interesting than going through these dishonorable loops about Sir Rothschild ( do you really care about him personally).


💐

[DeDukshyn]

I don’t think it’s a debate worth having either...

Debates are often fun and a learning experience, they help to ensure the full spectrum of a topic is made available for consideration etc.

What I think isn't worth doing is trying to convince someone that they're wrong for having made the choices they have made in life; which direction the convincing is going in matters not. It's ridiculous to try to tell a vegan that they should eat meat, and I think its equally ridiculous to tell someone who eats a balanced omnivorous diet that they are "wrong" for having chosen or have been raised to eat that way.

What is probably worth doing is laying out considerations for the reasoning behind each, so that people can make their choices after viewing factual information across the board. A meat eater that is completely unaware of the cruelty of factory farming and the environmental destruction, should be made aware and should have to make the choice to eat factory farmed meat knowing they are contributing to some major problems.

Do factory style meat farms cause a lifetime of suffering for animals? ... yes, this is not debatable. Do vegans run a risk of have deficiencies in B vitamins if they aren't careful with their diet? Yes ... this is not debatable. Do animals experience more death if they have been killed for food? No - everything dies once - no life can be saved, and if left to nature many animals are eaten alive. Is our environment being destroyed due to factory farming practices to feed the "wealthy" westerners? Absolutely true, and this is a very serious issue. Are our bodies (in general) designed (or "evolved", depending on your take) to eat both plants and animals or one or the other, yes they are and function quite well on either as long as balanced nutrients are maintained.

These are some important points for consideration, and should be considered by all - its not a topic that should be debated emotionally, but rather one that should be considered carefully on an individual and personal level with as much information as we can expose ourselves to. A bit like spirituality. I'm not interested in converting atheists, or religious people to my spiritual beliefs, but I always welcome new considerations from them to ponder (except those door to door types), and I am glad to share my insights in the area if any interest is sensed. Likewise I have no interest in telling any vegan that they are incorrect for the choice they made, and I certainly am not telling people they need to eat meat - that would be absurd. Taking a "holier than thou" stance on the topic either way, is the fallacy of the discussion.

From the big points, one can then personally drill into the finer, more subtle and debatable points (spiritual and moral/ethical considerations, etc.), and just make their choice, but it behooves everyone to understand well, the bigger, less debatable points, before they should feel comfortable in their choices.

[Mike]

Aajonus Vonderplanitz, the man mostly responsible for the raw meat/dairy movement, actually began his health journey as a strict fruitarian. Eating nothing but fruit, he was able to cure all his cancers and his dyslexia. It's a remarkably healing diet in that way. Anyone who has seen Constance - who looks 20 years younger than her actual age - knows that this approach can be very effective in healing disease and slowing the aging process.

But when Vonderplanitz began living in the wild, he grew weaker and weaker on that fruit diet, and eventually all his cancers returned (He eventually healed himself again with his raw meat/dairy approach). Just off the top of my head I know of 3 other vegans who were forced to eat meat and fish when they returned to the wild. They simply could not face the harsh elements and maintain energy without the aid of animal foods.

And that's why the American natives ate meat. Because they lived outside. It's really that simple. Nature is wonderful and nurturing and beautiful, but it's also indifferent and harsh and unforgiving. Surviving out there is not easy. Death is quick in the hunt; suffering is a lifetime in disease. It's an easy choice to make when living in the wild.

So what does all that mean? I'm not exactly sure. In a "civilized" society it appears many people can at least do ok on a vegan diet. But does that mean they should adopt one? I dunno. From what I've observed and experienced, there are several groups of people: people that do well on a meat and dairy diet; people that do well on a vegan/vegetartian/fruit diet; people that do well on some combination of the 2; and people who are born with such a rugged constitution that it hardly matters what they eat - they thrive regardless. And then there are people at the extremes who must eat only meat to remain healthy and disease free, or people who must eat exclusively veggies or fruits to remain functional. All these people are presented with unique challenges in various ways when it comes to diet. It's certainly not a one size fits all thing; when it comes to diet, that's the one thing I'm certain of.

I do eat meat and some dairy. In my experience, lightness does not necessarily come from eating light foods, but from eating the *right* foods to make my body strong, even if they're meats. I think spirituality is dependent on awareness, but what you are aware of is partly dependent on your ability to produce energy. When you are tired it is more difficult to hear the subtle voice of a higher power. So common sense dictates that one eats the foods that gives them the most energy.

And finally, I don't think veggie eaters are more loving necessarily, just different in how they express the anger that we all feel to some degree. Meat eaters tend to be more overt, more open in displaying hostility - and perhaps more volatile - while vegans/vegetarians express those emotions more covertly, more secretly and more passive-aggressively, but with just as much force. It is a different style of being, not a higher consciousness imo

[Hym]

I posted this a couple of days ago on the thread "10 REASONS TO BE VEGAN"
Both of these threads are interrelated in that I didn't stop eating meat from a preconceived notion of morality.....Though in thinking about it and knowing those things I just haven't done in years from being a vegetarian, I can see how I have avoided the issue because I've never felt the need to preach....just share....

Link to Post #38

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113883-10-REASONS-TO-BE-VEGAN-Why-people-make-the-change&p=1409558#post1409558

[Agape]

I have turned ethical vegetarian as teenager, can’t explain reasons other than aware and compassionate but I’ve passed through years of spiritual development back then that was entirely of my own provenance,
never followed any trends.

I would be happy to sustain myself from “thin air” or am, if it’s doable but it sometimes is doable or not 😀
It really depends on how well you feel, I feel, state of physio-dynamic balance. We seem to have lots more reserves stored in our systems than we are aware of or happy to “kick” at each particular time.


No matter what biological products do we consume here they link us to the ecosystem and different parts of the ecosystem, its pathways , logic of sustenance and procreation, building the walls of cells , borders and defences,
we become part of biological war, regardless.

There is live consciousness in every creature, true . A wild berry or herb shares completely different “power” than the one grown in the garden no matter how good is the fruit. It’s times more powerful when you are hungry.

So is a tiny piece of fish.

It’s definitely always about the “right food” that can work with our own energy reserves.


I’ve learned one thing with humans and that from childhood, long learning curve I’d say, that is don’t fall on your sword, don’t fall for “mercy” when it comes to food, make no compromise.
Only look for what each person can and want to eat, don’t adopt people’s habits
or eat because it’s socially convenient.

Eat when you are hungry at least for couple of hours
and not more than you need at that time.

Don’t eat out of habit.

Food is not habitual requirement.

Now I should go and get some ice cream 😆


Strat, I’ve likewise seen many neurotic even angry vegetarians in this life and it’s not worth the sighting though they’re generally harmless people.
I’ve experienced people on “meat only” diets who could not control themselves at all.

I’ve seen how even the most disciplined minds lose their best habits for a moment in time.

This world is not easy place to be and people come to terms with in it in many ways.




❤️💫

[amor]

Years ago, Prince Charles was ridiculed for reporting that he spoke to his plants and got better production from them. Also, if he really is related through Queen Victoria to the Rothschild's he is likely to be the person spoken of above.

[Constance]

ddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[Mike]

Aajonus Vonderplanitz, the man mostly responsible for the raw meat/dairy movement, actually began his health journey as a strict fruitarian. Eating nothing but fruit, he was able to cure all his cancers and his dyslexia. It's a remarkably healing diet in that way. Anyone who has seen Constance - who looks 20 years younger than her actual age - knows that this approach can be very effective in healing disease and slowing the aging process.

But when Vonderplanitz began living in the wild, he grew weaker and weaker on that fruit diet, and eventually all his cancers returned (He eventually healed himself again with his raw meat/dairy approach). Just off the top of my head I know of 3 other vegans who were forced to eat meat and fish when they returned to the wild. They simply could not face the harsh elements and maintain energy without the aid of animal foods.

And that's why the American natives ate meat. Because they lived outside. It's really that simple. Nature is wonderful and nurturing and beautiful, but it's also indifferent and harsh and unforgiving. Surviving out there is not easy. Death is quick in the hunt; suffering is a lifetime in disease. It's an easy choice to make when living in the wild.

So what does all that mean? I'm not exactly sure. In a "civilized" society it appears many people can at least do ok on a vegan diet. But does that mean they should adopt one? I dunno. From what I've observed and experienced, there are several groups of people: people that do well on a meat and dairy diet; people that do well on a vegan/vegetartian/fruit diet; people that do well on some combination of the 2; and people who are born with such a rugged constitution that it hardly matters what they eat - they thrive regardless. And then there are people at the extremes who must eat only meat to remain healthy and disease free, or people who must eat exclusively veggies or fruits to remain functional. All these people are presented with unique challenges in various ways when it comes to diet. It's certainly not a one size fits all thing; when it comes to diet, that's the one thing I'm certain of.

I do eat meat and some dairy. In my experience, lightness does not necessarily come from eating light foods, but from eating the *right* foods to make my body strong, even if they're meats. I think spirituality is dependent on awareness, but what you are aware of is partly dependent on your ability to produce energy. When you are tired it is more difficult to hear the subtle voice of a higher power. So common sense dictates that one eats the foods that gives them the most energy.

And finally, I don't think veggie eaters are more loving necessarily, just different in how they express the anger that we all feel to some degree. Meat eaters tend to be more overt, more open in displaying hostility - and perhaps more volatile - while vegans/vegetarians express those emotions more covertly, more secretly and more passive-aggressively, but with just as much force. It is a different style of being, not a higher consciousness imo


I've seen/experienced both sides display overt and covert hostility, passive-aggressiveness and anger. But what I do see overwhelmingly in the vegan community is the desire for peace.

I've attended a few rallies and educational sessions with other vegans. The love and support many vegans share for the animals, and with each other is really beautiful to witness. People set aside their differences to unite in the one cause. Peace. Peace for the animals, peace for themselves. Peace for the planet.


I wholeheartedly agree with you where you say I think spirituality is dependent on awareness.

What nourishes and sustains the body? Gosh, where does one start when there are the 12 facets of our being to consider? Each contains 144 pieces of information in the what, when, why, how, who, where, whilst, which, whether - with/without. It is humbling when I realise what I don't know. I maybe only know 10% of everything that I want to know.

Over the many years that I've been vegetarian (and in the last decade vegan), I don't think I've really ever seen personally or professionally, a productive debate around this subject.

Unless someone has the time and energy to present both sides and in a way that all factors are presented (how many billions of pieces of information?) and in a way that people can easily digest the information, at best - we can only be marginally effective. I'm only aware of this because I have attempted to piece it all together (not here of course) and it wasn't effortless. I'd much prefer to spend time doing what I love to do and fulfil my highest potential that way.

If l look realistically at where humanity is at, how many in the population are at peace or can maintain that peace?

The only thing I have to ask myself ultimately about my wholistic lifestyle (which encompasses a vegan diet) is, does this bring me peace and can I maintain that peace?


When I was 19 or so, I would accompany my older brother to these music festivals where his band would perform. They were popular locally so there was usually quite a crowd. These events were usually outdoors, in the evening, under the stars, with fires burning, dancing, drink, weed, incense, so forth. If it were the 60's, you might call the attendees "hippies". But it was a cool scene, at least superficially, suggesting freedom and bliss and love and unity and so on. There were tables with what seemed like endless vegan dishes. And no one asked for a dime! Free food, free drink, free love. Then why did it make me so uneasy?

To begin with, everyone looked emaciated. The guys were all uber thin, drowning in their tshirts and beards, with easy, tired smiles etched into their gaunt faces. Most of their shirts were decorated with peace symbols, and just in case you missed it all you had to do was look at their hands, which were perpetually locked in the peace sign formation. The whole place was shrouded in this weird, burnt-out tranquility. When I looked around I didn't really see it all as advertised, I mostly just saw weakness.

It wasn't so much that those people were interested in peace, it's just that they were totally incapable of fighting:) And that's an important distinction to make. Had the place been overrun by angry toddlers, the hippies wouldn't have stood a chance! And the whole scene was a wonderful smokescreen (no pun intended) to conceal this weakness and instead present it as a virtue. I couldn't really articulate that to myself back then, but I certainly picked up on it. And it always made me uneasy.

What they all had in common was their vegan diet. It's true that they were also weed smokers and drinkers, but so were my friends and they were all pretty robust lol.

It's unfair of me to compare those events and people with the vegans you know and spend time with, but that's what it immediately reminded me of. I guess I'm trying to just describe my experiences to hopefully make my position more understandable.

All my early health guru heroes were vegans and herbalists. Dr Schulze. Gary Null. Dr Christopher, etc. All I had to do was cleanse my body of the poisons I'd put in there, and replace them with healthy, plant based nutrients they told me. So simple, so easy. It made perfect sense to me, and I was completely convinced it would work. I knew. Then why didn't it work for me? Oh I know, I would say to myself, I did x wrong, or y, or z. I would try again, only this time be even more dedicated to the details. And then it would fail me again. I did this countless times.

Meanwhile I would wolf down a burger or a steak in between these attempts, ignoring how good they made me feel while planning my next herbal cleanse and vegetarian plan. Finally I had to admit that the meat made me feel much healthier and energetic. But it took me years to accept that!! I so desperately wanted to be a vegan. And sometimes I still do. More for the animals than me.

And over the years I would periodically revisit the diet. I would go to my local healthfood store and talk with some of the vegan workers there, looking for guidance. And they all looked like the people at the music festivals all those years ago. The guys were gaunt and weak, usually with those enormous , plate-sized tribal things in their ear lobes, and the women were sloppy and fat and heavily tattoo'd ( clearly doing the twinkie version of the vegan diet). And so I began to associate the diet with a certain type of person, fairly or unfairly, and I drifted even further from it.

I feel best when I eat meat *and* veggies. And fruits. I will happily testify to the remarkable boost I get from my fruit smoothies, but if I just do fruit or veggies exclusively, I wilt. I wish it wasn't so. A vegan diet appeals to me in every way but has failed me time and again in practice. Ive just accepted finally that this is who I am, ya know?

[Agape]

Years ago, Prince Charles was ridiculed for reporting that he spoke to his plants and got better production from them. Also, if he really is related through Queen Victoria to the Rothschild's he is likely to be the person spoken of above.

I think it’s the “monster” of internet age- really, this technical age of humanity that’s about hundred or two years old - blowing things around in uneven manner, sometimes.
Natural habits and characters disappearing literally under our finger tips. In old times perhaps, we would tell a friend or DO something else about it
but this time we give our piece of energy to the bigger whole
that is trapped in a machine.

That said, I know very few growers, nature lovers , pet and animal lovers who do not talk to their plants, animals , including insects and fish as if they could understand and experiment with this natural law of intelligence and attraction and whether we are able to understand each other, inter species, I think it’s very big and important question and no doubts every living being down to the pesky virus carries certain form of consciousness or intelligence and frequency it operates, in its own timeline and so forth but
for me personally, every living being carry unique message in them and it’s upon us whether we are able to read it or not ...





🕊

[Constance]

ddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[araucaria]

Looks like some people skimmed over this crucial part of my first post:


but found this guy spitting some major knowledge [U]at times.

I'm talking about plants. If I was talking about metaphysical concepts or blood types or other stuff, I would have posted in a different section.



It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.Someone will have to explain how plants react when they read that you are intent on eating them in even larger quantities than before because you have stopped eating meat.

You're failing to realize something big: that by eating meat, you're actually eating a higher number plants than if you were to just eat plants.

You also seem to have not read the excerpt from the thread I posted in the OP, or else you would realize that plants do not necessarily mind being eaten in the first place. If you read the book, you will understand why that is in a more specific sense.

Otherwise, perhaps watch a factory farming video in the background the next time you eat meat. You won't mind, right?
Hey waxamillionpehhgasus, come down off your high horse :) I have no answers (Mashika brought up the word ‘conundrum’). No one has all the answers; I am simply raising questions: you can just answer them, or not. Please don’t go telling me before posting to read a whole book you quoted. If I read it, it would surely not answer all my questions. I am going simply to outline a few thoughts that occur to me here and now – just like you have done.

However, there is some convoluted logic here. So one objection to eating meat is that it is to eat more plants. Plants, you say, don’t necessarily mind being eaten – I had understood that, thank you –but then presumably not by animals either. So that would not be an objection to eating meat – because the plants will have sorted out that issue with the animals. Or do they perhaps object to being eaten by domesticated animals? Would they then also object to being grown by humans? How then do we develop a positive relationship between consumer and consumed, when even an oak is usually planted and tended by humans? It seems it can be done, but exactly why is not so clear.

I’m afraid the factory farming video idea is an inadequate response. In my other post (maybe you didn’t read it: that’s OK), I said ‘whatever we are doing wrong with respect to animals we are also doing wrong with respect to plants’. I did not for a moment suggest factory farming was doing it right. My point was that the same thing can happen with our relation to plants, and therefore ultimately eating plants is not the answer: if they ‘don’t necessarily mind being eaten’, then they don’t necessarily accept it either. The ultimate answer in one line of thinking is artificial food made from minerals – until, that is, minerals start to object too. I expect the transhumanist computer chip will have to come with a charger so that we can feed off the mains electricity supply; that is one direction where this seems to be heading.

The other direction is plugging better into nature. Some things are more ‘natural’ than others and therefore to be preferred. But there is a problem with that too. I’ll reply to one point made by Constance. It would seem I missed out one link in the human-dolphin chain: the dolphins are conspiring with humans to catch other fish. So, whatever is wrong with humans is also wrong with those nice dolphins. They are as smart as they come, but they live off fish: try telling a school of dolphins to go vegan! The entire food chain idea needs a radical overhaul. But then the entire Earth system needs overhauling. If we avoid being killed and eaten, we still end up dying and being eaten by willing agents of mother Earth. This is seen as a positive process, but an unavoidable one. Avoiding cow’s milk is not going to change that. People are willing to accelerate the process by dying for country, religion or some other principle – or rather, have other people do that. Ultimately in this case, the sentient Earth is sick and possibly dying, and the diseased cells are the ones supposed to be curing her.

Mentioning a Rothschild simply suggests that humans are not at the top of the food chain: some other entity is feeding off humanity and turning them into sheep. Veganism may be a part of this: we are uncomfortable with being at the top, so we move down a notch to become herbivores. There are a number of practical problems with that, one being what happens to the cattle and pigs. Do we exterminate them all or do we let them go wild? Wild means many more boars and bulls than now, leading to uncontrollable stocks and higher reproduction rates among animals used to feeding off our farmland.

Already, wild boar are causing problems in large cities like Barcelona. They don’t do too much damage on concrete and tarmac. But only last week I saw the mess they can make of a rainsoaked meadow. If they visited a vegan’s vegetable plot, then they would devour the lot and the farmer would have to start over again. Unfortunately, in many parts of the world, that means next year, so what does he eat over the winter? Traditionally, the answer has always been meat. Hunter-gatherers gathered in the summer and autumn and could fall back on hunting in the spring and winter. If you are going to act like sheep, then you need to make absolutely sure you make hay while the sun shines, meaning that you are going to have to compete with the livestock (on a ‘four legs good’ basis?) and find an alternative to eating it.

If you are also contending with an elite intent on culling the middle man, then you find yourself on the side of the beasts, whether as a friend or a prey, but you have done nothing to overcome the food chain mechanism. On the contrary, you have only made your own position worse. This is a planetary issue way beyond our pay grade. Feeding off love and light is a story the elite might like to tell people, but there is a piece missing in that puzzle. That is what a planet does in relation to its sun, but we are mere cells of its organism. But as such, we may not be all serving the same function, which means the following: any blanket solution to our perceived problems is not going to work. Blanket solutions, as we are seeing now more than ever, are a major part of the problem. If we break away from the hierarchical civilization that is killing us, then life may get a whole lot more precarious before it gets better. Veganism is one solution for some people, we don’t want it becoming one more -ism imposing some kind of religious dogma.

[Constance]

ddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[palehorse]

Hello,

I will hardly pick a side on this one, because both sides can be good, as someone wrote above, living in harsh conditions in the mountains for instance can trigger the necessity of a better diet based on protein, specially if a person is very active. It is all about the environment as well.

Here is one example of local diet, I once met a monk at the temple right in one of the borders with Camboja, a small temple in the country side where the local community is based on agriculture only, their Sangha has a total of 7 people, 6 monks and 1 helper, the only way for them to survive is to beg for food in the local community and also what people donate direct in the temple, and they do every morning as a tradition in the Buddhism, they have no other options, these monks eat mostly vegetables and fungi in curries with rice and herbs, porridge and fruits, but they also eat meat in curries as well in this area, since the community is basically composed by farmers and everybody work from sun to sun.. monks also work hard all day to keep the temple neat, give sermons and serve the community, chanting two times per day, meditate, study, etc etc .. monks's life (the serious ones of course) is a full day activity starting at 3:30 AM and finishing later at 11:30 PM or even later than that.. most of them barely sleep well and they have 1 super per day, the rest of the day is just liquids like Water, Tea, Milk, Coffee, Juices, etc..

I always wondered how they find the energy to deal with all that stuffs eating and sleeping too little, and using their physical strength to the limit.. the monk said to me they meditate and contemplate all day long, every day, cleaning the mind and becoming light weight literally, it is unbelievable how much unnecessary stuffs we can have in our minds and this stuffs can drain us out of energy pretty quickly.

(here where I live it is vegetarian food served in all temples I had visited, if anyone spend a few days in a retreat like I did, then one will have almost the same experience as eating, sleeping and living like a monk, the same rules apply to everyone, vegetarian or not one will see the power of food in their bodies, most of us I would say, we eat more than we need).

I respect all lifestyles and I believe a good diet renders a better life, after all we are what we eat, but it is highly dependent on the environment we live on, imagine all those folks living all year round in the harsh cold, animal fat must be their primarily source of energy along with meat, one would barely eat veggies...

I could be all wrong on that, but it seems logic not only for me, but also for the common knowledge applied in each of these areas.

Personally I could eat mushrooms in case meat isn't available anymore, it is a great source of proteins, they have vitamin B12 and Iron which is found in meats, also could eat beans (all sort of beans) or lentils, all full of Iron in order to replace meat, for me it is not a big deal, what is a big deal is smoked ribs, I actually love smoked meat, the original one home made not the one sold in supermarkets with chemicals to mimic the smoke flavor.

Have a good day everyone. :)

[DeDukshyn]

Hello,

I will hardly pick a side on this one, because both sides can be good, as someone wrote above, living in harsh conditions in the mountains for instance can trigger the necessity of a better diet based on protein, specially if a person is very active. It is all about the environment as well.

Here is one example of local diet, I once met a monk at the temple right in one of the borders with Camboja, a small temple in the country side where the local community is based on agriculture only, their Sangha has a total of 7 people, 6 monks and 1 helper, the only way for them to survive is to beg for food in the local community and also what people donate direct in the temple, and they do every morning as a tradition in the Buddhism, they have no other options, these monks eat mostly vegetables and fungi in curries with rice and herbs, porridge and fruits, but they also eat meat in curries as well in this area, since the community is basically composed by farmers and everybody work from sun to sun.. monks also work hard all day to keep the temple neat, give sermons and serve the community, chanting two times per day, meditate, study, etc etc .. monks's life (the serious ones of course) is a full day activity starting at 3:30 AM and finishing later at 11:30 PM or even later than that.. most of them barely sleep well and they have 1 super per day, the rest of the day is just liquids like Water, Tea, Milk, Coffee, Juices, etc..

I always wondered how they find the energy to deal with all that stuffs eating and sleeping too little, and using their physical strength to the limit.. the monk said to me they meditate and contemplate all day long, every day, cleaning the mind and becoming light weight literally, it is unbelievable how much unnecessary stuffs we can have in our minds and this stuffs can drain us out of energy pretty quickly.

(here where I live it is vegetarian food served in all temples I had visited, if anyone spend a few days in a retreat like I did, then one will have almost the same experience as eating, sleeping and living like a monk, the same rules apply to everyone, vegetarian or not one will see the power of food in their bodies, most of us I would say, we eat more than we need).

I respect all lifestyles and I believe a good diet renders a better life, after all we are what we eat, but it is highly dependent on the environment we live on, imagine all those folks living all year round in the harsh cold, animal fat must be their primarily source of energy along with meat, one would barely eat veggies...

I could be all wrong on that, but it seems logic not only for me, but also for the common knowledge applied in each of these areas.

Personally I could eat mushrooms in case meat isn't available anymore, it is a great source of proteins, they have vitamin B12 and Iron which is found in meats, also could eat beans (all sort of beans) or lentils, all full of Iron in order to replace meat, for me it is not a big deal, what is a big deal is smoked ribs, I actually love smoked meat, the original one home made not the one sold in supermarkets with chemicals to mimic the smoke flavor.

Have a good day everyone. :)

Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer. Even rabbits have been caught on video eating from dead animal carcasses in the winter months in northern climates where there's literally not much vegetation for them to eat at all. But if you have the choice, then well, you have the choice.

[palehorse]

Hello,

I will hardly pick a side on this one, because both sides can be good, as someone wrote above, living in harsh conditions in the mountains for instance can trigger the necessity of a better diet based on protein, specially if a person is very active. It is all about the environment as well.

Here is one example of local diet, I once met a monk at the temple right in one of the borders with Camboja, a small temple in the country side where the local community is based on agriculture only, their Sangha has a total of 7 people, 6 monks and 1 helper, the only way for them to survive is to beg for food in the local community and also what people donate direct in the temple, and they do every morning as a tradition in the Buddhism, they have no other options, these monks eat mostly vegetables and fungi in curries with rice and herbs, porridge and fruits, but they also eat meat in curries as well in this area, since the community is basically composed by farmers and everybody work from sun to sun.. monks also work hard all day to keep the temple neat, give sermons and serve the community, chanting two times per day, meditate, study, etc etc .. monks's life (the serious ones of course) is a full day activity starting at 3:30 AM and finishing later at 11:30 PM or even later than that.. most of them barely sleep well and they have 1 super per day, the rest of the day is just liquids like Water, Tea, Milk, Coffee, Juices, etc..

I always wondered how they find the energy to deal with all that stuffs eating and sleeping too little, and using their physical strength to the limit.. the monk said to me they meditate and contemplate all day long, every day, cleaning the mind and becoming light weight literally, it is unbelievable how much unnecessary stuffs we can have in our minds and this stuffs can drain us out of energy pretty quickly.

(here where I live it is vegetarian food served in all temples I had visited, if anyone spend a few days in a retreat like I did, then one will have almost the same experience as eating, sleeping and living like a monk, the same rules apply to everyone, vegetarian or not one will see the power of food in their bodies, most of us I would say, we eat more than we need).

I respect all lifestyles and I believe a good diet renders a better life, after all we are what we eat, but it is highly dependent on the environment we live on, imagine all those folks living all year round in the harsh cold, animal fat must be their primarily source of energy along with meat, one would barely eat veggies...

I could be all wrong on that, but it seems logic not only for me, but also for the common knowledge applied in each of these areas.

Personally I could eat mushrooms in case meat isn't available anymore, it is a great source of proteins, they have vitamin B12 and Iron which is found in meats, also could eat beans (all sort of beans) or lentils, all full of Iron in order to replace meat, for me it is not a big deal, what is a big deal is smoked ribs, I actually love smoked meat, the original one home made not the one sold in supermarkets with chemicals to mimic the smoke flavor.

Have a good day everyone. :)

Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer. Even rabbits have been caught on video eating from dead animal carcasses in the winter months in northern climates where there's literally not much vegetation for them to eat at all. But if you have the choice, then well, you have the choice.

I do not fully agree with this statement "Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer." as you said IF there is choice then you have the choice, it would be total laziness to not explore the choices, but in many cases there is no such choices, people will eat what is available and what grows in their areas and what their money can pay for or what else they barter. It is just the way of life for those people living under that circumstances.

[Mashika]

Hello,

I will hardly pick a side on this one, because both sides can be good, as someone wrote above, living in harsh conditions in the mountains for instance can trigger the necessity of a better diet based on protein, specially if a person is very active. It is all about the environment as well.

Here is one example of local diet, I once met a monk at the temple right in one of the borders with Camboja, a small temple in the country side where the local community is based on agriculture only, their Sangha has a total of 7 people, 6 monks and 1 helper, the only way for them to survive is to beg for food in the local community and also what people donate direct in the temple, and they do every morning as a tradition in the Buddhism, they have no other options, these monks eat mostly vegetables and fungi in curries with rice and herbs, porridge and fruits, but they also eat meat in curries as well in this area, since the community is basically composed by farmers and everybody work from sun to sun.. monks also work hard all day to keep the temple neat, give sermons and serve the community, chanting two times per day, meditate, study, etc etc .. monks's life (the serious ones of course) is a full day activity starting at 3:30 AM and finishing later at 11:30 PM or even later than that.. most of them barely sleep well and they have 1 super per day, the rest of the day is just liquids like Water, Tea, Milk, Coffee, Juices, etc..

I always wondered how they find the energy to deal with all that stuffs eating and sleeping too little, and using their physical strength to the limit.. the monk said to me they meditate and contemplate all day long, every day, cleaning the mind and becoming light weight literally, it is unbelievable how much unnecessary stuffs we can have in our minds and this stuffs can drain us out of energy pretty quickly.

(here where I live it is vegetarian food served in all temples I had visited, if anyone spend a few days in a retreat like I did, then one will have almost the same experience as eating, sleeping and living like a monk, the same rules apply to everyone, vegetarian or not one will see the power of food in their bodies, most of us I would say, we eat more than we need).

I respect all lifestyles and I believe a good diet renders a better life, after all we are what we eat, but it is highly dependent on the environment we live on, imagine all those folks living all year round in the harsh cold, animal fat must be their primarily source of energy along with meat, one would barely eat veggies...

I could be all wrong on that, but it seems logic not only for me, but also for the common knowledge applied in each of these areas.

Personally I could eat mushrooms in case meat isn't available anymore, it is a great source of proteins, they have vitamin B12 and Iron which is found in meats, also could eat beans (all sort of beans) or lentils, all full of Iron in order to replace meat, for me it is not a big deal, what is a big deal is smoked ribs, I actually love smoked meat, the original one home made not the one sold in supermarkets with chemicals to mimic the smoke flavor.

Have a good day everyone. :)

Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer. Even rabbits have been caught on video eating from dead animal carcasses in the winter months in northern climates where there's literally not much vegetation for them to eat at all. But if you have the choice, then well, you have the choice.

I do not fully agree with this statement "Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer." as you said IF there is choice then you have the choice, it would be total laziness to not explore the choices, but in many cases there is no such choices, people will eat what is available and what grows in their areas and what their money can pay for or what else they barter. It is just the way of life for those people living under that circumstances.

I thought what he meant with "IF" as in "Either you eat what is around, or you die", that's the choice?

[palehorse]

Hello,

I will hardly pick a side on this one, because both sides can be good, as someone wrote above, living in harsh conditions in the mountains for instance can trigger the necessity of a better diet based on protein, specially if a person is very active. It is all about the environment as well.

Here is one example of local diet, I once met a monk at the temple right in one of the borders with Camboja, a small temple in the country side where the local community is based on agriculture only, their Sangha has a total of 7 people, 6 monks and 1 helper, the only way for them to survive is to beg for food in the local community and also what people donate direct in the temple, and they do every morning as a tradition in the Buddhism, they have no other options, these monks eat mostly vegetables and fungi in curries with rice and herbs, porridge and fruits, but they also eat meat in curries as well in this area, since the community is basically composed by farmers and everybody work from sun to sun.. monks also work hard all day to keep the temple neat, give sermons and serve the community, chanting two times per day, meditate, study, etc etc .. monks's life (the serious ones of course) is a full day activity starting at 3:30 AM and finishing later at 11:30 PM or even later than that.. most of them barely sleep well and they have 1 super per day, the rest of the day is just liquids like Water, Tea, Milk, Coffee, Juices, etc..

I always wondered how they find the energy to deal with all that stuffs eating and sleeping too little, and using their physical strength to the limit.. the monk said to me they meditate and contemplate all day long, every day, cleaning the mind and becoming light weight literally, it is unbelievable how much unnecessary stuffs we can have in our minds and this stuffs can drain us out of energy pretty quickly.

(here where I live it is vegetarian food served in all temples I had visited, if anyone spend a few days in a retreat like I did, then one will have almost the same experience as eating, sleeping and living like a monk, the same rules apply to everyone, vegetarian or not one will see the power of food in their bodies, most of us I would say, we eat more than we need).

I respect all lifestyles and I believe a good diet renders a better life, after all we are what we eat, but it is highly dependent on the environment we live on, imagine all those folks living all year round in the harsh cold, animal fat must be their primarily source of energy along with meat, one would barely eat veggies...

I could be all wrong on that, but it seems logic not only for me, but also for the common knowledge applied in each of these areas.

Personally I could eat mushrooms in case meat isn't available anymore, it is a great source of proteins, they have vitamin B12 and Iron which is found in meats, also could eat beans (all sort of beans) or lentils, all full of Iron in order to replace meat, for me it is not a big deal, what is a big deal is smoked ribs, I actually love smoked meat, the original one home made not the one sold in supermarkets with chemicals to mimic the smoke flavor.

Have a good day everyone. :)

Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer. Even rabbits have been caught on video eating from dead animal carcasses in the winter months in northern climates where there's literally not much vegetation for them to eat at all. But if you have the choice, then well, you have the choice.

I do not fully agree with this statement "Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer." as you said IF there is choice then you have the choice, it would be total laziness to not explore the choices, but in many cases there is no such choices, people will eat what is available and what grows in their areas and what their money can pay for or what else they barter. It is just the way of life for those people living under that circumstances.

I thought what he meant with "IF" as in "Either you eat what is around, or you die", that's the choice?

Yes, that was my huge misunderstanding interpreting the word "no-brainer" my #HUMAN_ERROR# bug sorry and thanks for pointed that out. :blushing:

[Mashika]

Hello,

I will hardly pick a side on this one, because both sides can be good, as someone wrote above, living in harsh conditions in the mountains for instance can trigger the necessity of a better diet based on protein, specially if a person is very active. It is all about the environment as well.

Here is one example of local diet, I once met a monk at the temple right in one of the borders with Camboja, a small temple in the country side where the local community is based on agriculture only, their Sangha has a total of 7 people, 6 monks and 1 helper, the only way for them to survive is to beg for food in the local community and also what people donate direct in the temple, and they do every morning as a tradition in the Buddhism, they have no other options, these monks eat mostly vegetables and fungi in curries with rice and herbs, porridge and fruits, but they also eat meat in curries as well in this area, since the community is basically composed by farmers and everybody work from sun to sun.. monks also work hard all day to keep the temple neat, give sermons and serve the community, chanting two times per day, meditate, study, etc etc .. monks's life (the serious ones of course) is a full day activity starting at 3:30 AM and finishing later at 11:30 PM or even later than that.. most of them barely sleep well and they have 1 super per day, the rest of the day is just liquids like Water, Tea, Milk, Coffee, Juices, etc..

I always wondered how they find the energy to deal with all that stuffs eating and sleeping too little, and using their physical strength to the limit.. the monk said to me they meditate and contemplate all day long, every day, cleaning the mind and becoming light weight literally, it is unbelievable how much unnecessary stuffs we can have in our minds and this stuffs can drain us out of energy pretty quickly.

(here where I live it is vegetarian food served in all temples I had visited, if anyone spend a few days in a retreat like I did, then one will have almost the same experience as eating, sleeping and living like a monk, the same rules apply to everyone, vegetarian or not one will see the power of food in their bodies, most of us I would say, we eat more than we need).

I respect all lifestyles and I believe a good diet renders a better life, after all we are what we eat, but it is highly dependent on the environment we live on, imagine all those folks living all year round in the harsh cold, animal fat must be their primarily source of energy along with meat, one would barely eat veggies...

I could be all wrong on that, but it seems logic not only for me, but also for the common knowledge applied in each of these areas.

Personally I could eat mushrooms in case meat isn't available anymore, it is a great source of proteins, they have vitamin B12 and Iron which is found in meats, also could eat beans (all sort of beans) or lentils, all full of Iron in order to replace meat, for me it is not a big deal, what is a big deal is smoked ribs, I actually love smoked meat, the original one home made not the one sold in supermarkets with chemicals to mimic the smoke flavor.

Have a good day everyone. :)

Hi, i understand, for example this is my breakfast every morning, just got it out and waiting for it to cool a bit. It got soggy because i went back to bed and forgot it overnight when it was soaking

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=46088&d=1613046810

As put correctly, by one of my teachers as i was growing up.. "when you dont have an empty void in your soul, a cup of rice is all you need to feed you all day"

In a joking way lol, but you only need to eat twice a day really, and not at night.. "so they said"

I only eat vegetables, chicken and rice with eggs, tuna and mexican beans in the traditional way. and then more rice because if i did not have my rice and eggs in the morning, i would die lol

And eggs.. i poached them badly lol, i cant stand the other style, half raw...

[Mashika]

Natural food, even if it gets messed up a bit because of not preparing it well the night before, it's still great for your body. i guess we have different diets, but as long as people feel well and happy, whats wrong with that?

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=46089&d=1613047918

I only get japanese rice every month. Then i have to meassure it to last for a full month. The one found here has too much cianyde and is not 'sticky', so i spend a lot on importing the real kind. I think people should stopbuying expensive tvs and buy real food instead. What good is a giant tv if can barely breath?

[palehorse]

Natural food, even if it gets messed up a bit because of not preparing it well the night before, it's still great for your body. i guess we have different diets, but as long as people feel well and happy, whats wrong with that?

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=46089&d=1613047918

I only get japanese rice every month. Then i have to meassure it to last for a full month. The one found here has too much cianyde and is not 'sticky', so i spend a lot on importing the real kind. I think people should stopbuying expensive tvs and buy real food instead. What good is a giant tv if can barely breath?

It looks great to me, I do like Japanese rice but we usually go with the Thai rice, we usually cook with slices of ****ake to give a little extra flavor :D
The Japanese is very taste, I like to eat with soya sauce, just a few drops on top. :thumbsup:

the word [s h i t]ake was censored lol

[Akasha]

When I was 19 or so, I would accompany my older brother to these music festivals where his band would perform. They were popular locally so there was usually quite a crowd. These events were usually outdoors, in the evening, under the stars, with fires burning, dancing, drink, weed, incense, so forth. If it were the 60's, you might call the attendees "hippies". But it was a cool scene, at least superficially, suggesting freedom and bliss and love and unity and so on. There were tables with what seemed like endless vegan dishes. And no one asked for a dime! Free food, free drink, free love. Then why did it make me so uneasy?

To begin with, everyone looked emaciated. The guys were all uber thin, drowning in their tshirts and beards, with easy, tired smiles etched into their gaunt faces. Most of their shirts were decorated with peace symbols, and just in case you missed it all you had to do was look at their hands, which were perpetually locked in the peace sign formation. The whole place was shrouded in this weird, burnt-out tranquility. When I looked around I didn't really see it all as advertised, I mostly just saw weakness.

It wasn't so much that those people were interested in peace, it's just that they were totally incapable of fighting:) And that's an important distinction to make. Had the place been overrun by angry toddlers, the hippies wouldn't have stood a chance! And the whole scene was a wonderful smokescreen (no pun intended) to conceal this weakness and instead present it as a virtue. I couldn't really articulate that to myself back then, but I certainly picked up on it. And it always made me uneasy.

What they all had in common was their vegan diet. It's true that they were also weed smokers and drinkers, but so were my friends and they were all pretty robust lol.

It's unfair of me to compare those events and people with the vegans you know and spend time with, but that's what it immediately reminded me of. I guess I'm trying to just describe my experiences to hopefully make my position more understandable.

All my early health guru heroes were vegans and herbalists. Dr Schulze. Gary Null. Dr Christopher, etc. All I had to do was cleanse my body of the poisons I'd put in there, and replace them with healthy, plant based nutrients they told me. So simple, so easy. It made perfect sense to me, and I was completely convinced it would work. I knew. Then why didn't it work for me? Oh I know, I would say to myself, I did x wrong, or y, or z. I would try again, only this time be even more dedicated to the details. And then it would fail me again. I did this countless times.

Meanwhile I would wolf down a burger or a steak in between these attempts, ignoring how good they made me feel while planning my next herbal cleanse and vegetarian plan. Finally I had to admit that the meat made me feel much healthier and energetic. But it took me years to accept that!! I so desperately wanted to be a vegan. And sometimes I still do. More for the animals than me.

And over the years I would periodically revisit the diet. I would go to my local healthfood store and talk with some of the vegan workers there, looking for guidance. And they all looked like the people at the music festivals all those years ago. The guys were gaunt and weak, usually with those enormous , plate-sized tribal things in their ear lobes, and the women were sloppy and fat and heavily tattoo'd ( clearly doing the twinkie version of the vegan diet). And so I began to associate the diet with a certain type of person, fairly or unfairly, and I drifted even further from it.

I feel best when I eat meat *and* veggies. And fruits. I will happily testify to the remarkable boost I get from my fruit smoothies, but if I just do fruit or veggies exclusively, I wilt. I wish it wasn't so. A vegan diet appeals to me in every way but has failed me time and again in practice. Ive just accepted finally that this is who I am, ya know?



You're 43, I'm 49. I went vegan when I was 40, so not much younger, and I never looked back. The idea that it'll always be this way for you is not necessarily set in stone.......unless you make it so. You may still discover new recipes and ingredients which support your lifestyle more effectively, bringing veganism back into the realm of viability.

BTW, random quick tip for the benefit of those (and possibly you) who are unaware: sprouting legumes before cooking puts them into an expansive rather protective state thus making them far more digestible by our gut. I recommend testing this by making a hummus with some tinned chick peas and then with some sprouted and cooked chick peas. My gut is noticeably happier with the latter.

Regarding weak vegan men, I don't fit that stereotype, packing quite a punch for my age and size. I think that stereotype is diminishing as more men adopt the lifestyle. In the earlier days, I suspect it was more restricted to the hippy-type male but as it is becoming mainstream, we are starting to see many well-built, plant-based men.

Regarding skinny vegan men, I wish lol.

[DeDukshyn]

Hello,

I will hardly pick a side on this one, because both sides can be good, as someone wrote above, living in harsh conditions in the mountains for instance can trigger the necessity of a better diet based on protein, specially if a person is very active. It is all about the environment as well.

Here is one example of local diet, I once met a monk at the temple right in one of the borders with Camboja, a small temple in the country side where the local community is based on agriculture only, their Sangha has a total of 7 people, 6 monks and 1 helper, the only way for them to survive is to beg for food in the local community and also what people donate direct in the temple, and they do every morning as a tradition in the Buddhism, they have no other options, these monks eat mostly vegetables and fungi in curries with rice and herbs, porridge and fruits, but they also eat meat in curries as well in this area, since the community is basically composed by farmers and everybody work from sun to sun.. monks also work hard all day to keep the temple neat, give sermons and serve the community, chanting two times per day, meditate, study, etc etc .. monks's life (the serious ones of course) is a full day activity starting at 3:30 AM and finishing later at 11:30 PM or even later than that.. most of them barely sleep well and they have 1 super per day, the rest of the day is just liquids like Water, Tea, Milk, Coffee, Juices, etc..

I always wondered how they find the energy to deal with all that stuffs eating and sleeping too little, and using their physical strength to the limit.. the monk said to me they meditate and contemplate all day long, every day, cleaning the mind and becoming light weight literally, it is unbelievable how much unnecessary stuffs we can have in our minds and this stuffs can drain us out of energy pretty quickly.

(here where I live it is vegetarian food served in all temples I had visited, if anyone spend a few days in a retreat like I did, then one will have almost the same experience as eating, sleeping and living like a monk, the same rules apply to everyone, vegetarian or not one will see the power of food in their bodies, most of us I would say, we eat more than we need).

I respect all lifestyles and I believe a good diet renders a better life, after all we are what we eat, but it is highly dependent on the environment we live on, imagine all those folks living all year round in the harsh cold, animal fat must be their primarily source of energy along with meat, one would barely eat veggies...

I could be all wrong on that, but it seems logic not only for me, but also for the common knowledge applied in each of these areas.

Personally I could eat mushrooms in case meat isn't available anymore, it is a great source of proteins, they have vitamin B12 and Iron which is found in meats, also could eat beans (all sort of beans) or lentils, all full of Iron in order to replace meat, for me it is not a big deal, what is a big deal is smoked ribs, I actually love smoked meat, the original one home made not the one sold in supermarkets with chemicals to mimic the smoke flavor.

Have a good day everyone. :)

Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer. Even rabbits have been caught on video eating from dead animal carcasses in the winter months in northern climates where there's literally not much vegetation for them to eat at all. But if you have the choice, then well, you have the choice.

I do not fully agree with this statement "Eating what you have available to eat is a bit of a no brainer." as you said IF there is choice then you have the choice, it would be total laziness to not explore the choices, but in many cases there is no such choices, people will eat what is available and what grows in their areas and what their money can pay for or what else they barter. It is just the way of life for those people living under that circumstances.

Well if you don't have enough plant matter to eat, and you will starve to death if you don't eat meat .. .I suppose you could just starve to death. I would think most people's will to live would be stronger than that though.

And the second part - when there is a choice, there is a choice ... not sure what there is to disagree with ... would you rather stave to death than eat meat? :confused:

EDIT: I see Mashika already pointed that out to you. No response needed. :)

[Strat]

I always wondered how they find the energy to deal with all that stuffs eating and sleeping too little, and using their physical strength to the limit.. the monk said to me they meditate and contemplate all day long, every day, cleaning the mind and becoming light weight literally, it is unbelievable how much unnecessary stuffs we can have in our minds and this stuffs can drain us out of energy pretty quickly.


I heard in a buddhist talk/sermon/whatever that the mind uses 20% of the bodies resources so when it is quiet and not racing back and forth then it frees up a lot of energy. Maybe bs, I dunno, but I thought I'd share.

EDIT: Regarding vegans/vegetarians and their physical size/weight, it's not hard to find a fat vegan. Mike Tyson went vegetarian for a long time until his recent exhibition. He said something to the effect of, "being a vegetarian can make you fat as f***." My vegetarian friend put on a lot of weight but she altered the diet (still veg) and lost it. Now she's freakish skinny but just sayin.

The protruded belly from native cultures lacking meat is evidently because of this lack of protein. Don't quote me on that, I didn't research it, but I don't find it hard to believe.

I'm sure you can be a healthy vegetarian/vegan but you just gotta do it right. It's not accessible to third world countries.

[DeDukshyn]

...

As put correctly, by one of my teachers as i was growing up.. "when you dont have an empty void in your soul, a cup of rice is all you need to feed you all day"

In a joking way lol, but you only need to eat twice a day really, and not at night.. "so they said"
...


It seems to me that a major problem with the "western" diet isn't just eating more meat than is required for adequate nutrient intake, but also eating more than is required in general.

A human body needs certain levels of water and essential nutrients to function, and if it can't get enough of those, often the body's response is craving to eat more in general to address the inadequacies.

I only eat about 1000-1500 calories a day on average, but I drink plenty of water (sometimes), and take quality vitamin and mineral supplements. I now reside with my mother and she keeps harping on me "you better eat more or you're going to waste away!" I'm 180 lbs (82kg) and I have been eating this amount for years and years, and I'm not losing weight. My ideal weight for my frame is probably about 165lbs - so I'm still packing extra, lol.

That said, I'm not overly active, but most doctors and dieticians in this country would say I am eating way too little and would also be concerned for me. We have just normalized eating large amounts of food. As long as you are getting your nutrients, minerals and water (water is a big factor), the amount of food needed for normal function is lower than most people would ever believe.

[East Sun]

With the western diet, as I see it , the biggest negative is the additives, chemicals and
dyes and preservatives that are damaging to our physical bodies.

This is well known but ignored by the conditioned public.
We are and have been screwed.

But worse things are bombarding us daily at this time. If you don't see it clearly now
you need to pay attention.

Avalon people know but are not clear on exactly what we are up against. WE know that
it is momentous beyond our comprehension.

We will face it regardless of what it entails because we have to, to survive.

Not all will survive of course but it is WHAT IT IS,


Sorry for going off topic.

[Constance]

ddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[Constance]

ddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[waxamillionpehhgasus]

Here's the link
(https://ia802300.us.archive.org/8/items/rofschildv1/IAmARofschildAxeMeAQuestion.html)
The premise is that the forum thread starter is a "Rothschild", in other words a very high-ranking member of the STS hierarchy. No idea who he actually is.

I originally clicked on this thread to see how many people were tricked by a sophisticated LARP, but found this guy spitting some major knowledge at times.

The tone won't be for everyone, but I found it pretty funny. It starts slowly, mostly with insults, but picks up once the good questions start getting asked. Took me two days on and off to read and it was completely worth it.

Right after finishing up, I became vegan. The way he explained it just made it so OBVIOUS, at least to me. I had no reservations whatsoever. It's been about a week and a half and it's going great.

As context, before, my view of vegans were pretty neutral. It sounded interesting, but I didn't think it would work for me because I am a tall male with significant caloric needs, so I had never really tried it. (It does work... you just have to eat a ton of plant fat. Like, often more than you think.)

He also mentioned "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins as an essential book to read. I'm on chapter 5 and it's equally groundbreaking (if not more).


It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.
In a broader sense, it explains, scientifically, the science behind the Infinite Intelligence.
And to be clear I'm only on chapter 5.


The book only added to the obviousness of becoming vegan. The forum thread set me up to really understand and appreciate the implications of the concepts within the book, though.

Here's the link to the forum thread
(https://ia802300.us.archive.org/8/items/rofschildv1/IAmARofschildAxeMeAQuestion.html)
Compelling vegan-related excerpt from forum thread below...

---

You have been very gracious in your presentation of questions and ideas and demonstrated respect by following through on suggestions made by doing further research!

I would like to expand on two points for your consideration.

Most in the west are familiar with the concept of YIN YANG...the interrelationship of seeming opposite forces. I encourage you to become familiar with this TRUTH and look for examples in your experiences. See if it rises to the level of a NATURAL LAW in your reality!

Let us start simply!

"Night" cannot exist without "Day".

"Truth" cannot exist without "Lies"

"Problems" cannot exist without "solutions"

One gives form, creation and life to another.

A straight line cannot exist in nature!

There is no timeline...there is no past and no future. Because there IS no PAST...there cannot be a FUTURE.

Leaving only NOW, or REALITY. Keep this in mind.

Moving on to the concept of food!

You, presumably are an ANIMAL...a mammal.

You were a product of the insemination of egg by sperm. You were a live birth (again presumably) and a nursing mammal! Slow to mature and capable of complex cognitive interactions with your environment. Perhaps 300 million possible iterations of YOU, with one prevailing!

Sentient...capable of feeling pain, of growing and evolving.

What, of the attributes noted, differ from the animals you choose to eat? Say a PIG or COW...slaughtered by the hundreds of millions per year...and slaughtered without observing the laws and rituals of nature!

Most importantly, slaughtered on YOUR BEHALF!

It is well understood that these animals suffer greatly in their lifelong confinement (look up VEAL PRODUCTION for a "taste" of the sacrifice of YOUTH), are injected with all sorts of unnatural poisons and pharma effluents, fed genetically modified "grains" in a filthy environment.

Fear permeates their environment...misery unto DEATH.

Their complete existence is a MISERY from birth to death.

SLAUGHTER.

Where does all that fear and misery accumulate? Where does it go? Would YOU want to live in this existence? Do you APPROVE of these miseries being inflicted by those who act as your AGENT? Do you realize that AGENTS actions are lawfully binding upon the principal? As you BUY meat, you buy and legitimize this "system" of misery.

These mechanisms allow modification of thought perception which lead to such things as the aborting of human babies! Self-inflicted genocide! Astounding!

What will the next big advancement of humanity be?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Laughing out loud!

In the US, mcdonalds serves up billions of these little misery bombs...brightly wrapped and served by a grotesque clown character.

Eat up, Kiddies!

Eating animals is eating one's own. It is not a FOOD SOURCE per se, but cannibalism.

Consider another source of food. Plants.

Along the YIN YANG meridian, plants are opposite/complementary in most respects. Life forms, sure, and many realize now sentient.

However, plants and humans are symbiotic! One respirates Co2 and the other o2. One cannot live without the other!

Plants take non organic elements from the earth and make them digestible for humans. In fact, the only true source of minerals for human consumption come from plants. Elemental sources cannot be metabolized and end up causing sickness and death in humans.

Laughing out loud!

Human faeces is PLANT FERTILIZER! That which is SHAT is life giving food to plants!

Humans and plants have evolved together. There is much WISDOM which plants can impart to humans. One need only EAT!

Laughing out loud!

Let's create a small food chain scenario easily accomplished by MOST first world inhabitants.

You have, or acquire, a small plot of land. The land is fertile or reasonably so...or, worst case, can be rehabilitated with a small amount of knowledge of earthworms .

You plant a variety of green plants and vegetables...the type that humans normally consume. The cost of seeds is very small and through some miracle of life, you discover that the plants which grow also produce seeds...which can be kept for future growings! Food for now and the means of production for later!

You learn that by selecting the type of plants grown, you can make an ideal combination specific to your blood type and nutritional constitution. After some study, you learn that food can, indeed, be your "medicine"...just like that old guy said a few thousand years ago!

Laughing out loud!

After a period of systemic adjustment, you realize that your health has improved and you are bursting with abundant energy. You are never ill! No colds, no flu...no flesh eating bacteria!

The idea that one would need health insurance (socialist or private) becomes an absurdity!

At some point, you realize that the digestive tract you inherited required constant grazing...such as elephants, horses and cows do...and learn of JUICING! Most of the nutritional value can be extracted and made portable along with other benefits. You adopt this regimen after carefully weighing the pros and negatives and find an increase of super-charged energy....along with a small mountain of grindings from the juicing process...from vegetables and plants grown by yourself, with your labor...in your own garden!

You elect to form a relationship with a CHICKEN. Or maybe TWO CHICKENS!

You find that the chickens greedily eat the fibrous grinding remains along with bugs and anything else they can find...and, in exchange, give you a small nutrient bomb of proteins, high quality fats, organic minerals and other good stuff. They, in essence, extract the rest of the nutrition from the vegetables and produce it in a highly assimilatable form...complete amino acid profile, proportioned correctly.

Seeing an opportunity, you add this marvel of human nutrition to your green juicing! Raw!

Because the egg is UNFERTILIZED, there are no karmic issues with its consumption! Because you are providing a safe and healthy environment to the chicken; supplying it with healthy vegetables grown from the sweat of YOUR BROW...your toil...it is a perfectly symbiotic relationship!

Quid pro quo!

Now, the chicken ages and stops laying.

What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO??

Why, you continue to care for the chicken...to feed it and respect it during its "life" as you did while it was producing eggs! RESPECT, YO!

YOU DO NOT EAT THE CHICKEN! It lives out its life according to its NATURE and GENETIC PROGRAMMING. You are living according to the NATURAL LAW OF BOTH!

Why? Because you are living in the NOW! There being no timeline, there is only NOW. The killing of the chicken affects the Eggs...ALL the eggs concurrently. Betray the chicken NOW and poison the eggs NOW.

And you don't want to eat poisoned eggs, do you?

It's really very simple, actually.

So now, by the sweat of your own brow (and admittedly, taking very little actual sweat) you are feeding yourself and have taken responsibility for your own health. You are full of energy and brimming with positive POWER!

You grow your own food, maintain your own health and have no need for the pharma or poisoned ag industry!

At the same time, your need for fiat has been reduced significantly, so the need to toil in some dreary cubicle has been reduced or eliminated! You spend your life in the sunshine, in nature, producing and consuming your own labor.

How can ANY entity tax the fruit of your labors? Sadly, the various bureaucracies are not set up to process CHICKENS!

Laughing out loud!

This is but one very simple action ANYONE can take which changes their lives completely and allows them to take a new path. This earth truly is a biblical GARDEN OF EDEN!

Profoundly simple, and now laid out clearly for all to see!



It explains, scientifically, what happens when you talk to plants, send them love, etc.
It explains, scientifically, how plants can telepathically read your mind.
Someone will have to explain how plants react when they read that you are intent on eating them in even larger quantities than before because you have stopped eating meat.



You're posing lazy questions and making incorrect assumptions due to your lack of knowledge.Hey. :)

This is your second of just two posts following your 'Welcome to Avalon' reply, which we appreciated. You might be surprised what many members here do know. :P

Cool it. A good piece of advice may be to make friends first, and then have animated, passionate discussions with your friends.

But — make friends first. :flower:

:focus:

Yeah, I was unnecessarily brash. I have a decent handle on my moxie but sometimes it is a little much - I've gradually learned that people usually just don't compete in the same manner that I do. Took a quick break from Avalon as I knew immediately that I had let my emotions get the better of me. Back now... awesome forum you have here. Lurked for a while before signing up. Love the oldschool vBulletin. Cool to see this thread gained traction - maybe someone went vegan because of me? In case anyone is wondering, it's been going great - though you do need to eat a lot of beans and a lot of plant fat (read: coconut oil) if you hope to feel satiated and strong. I'm in the best shape of my life.

[AutumnW]

We are starting to see many well built plant based men

For sure. No more weeping willows for me. Just sturdy oaks!

[Constance]

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