The making of the new world religion

[Mecklenburger]

I estimate that this thread can be completed in ten postings. I think that any less would be counter-productive. I will attempt to post every day. It would be useful if I could answer any points made by readers after completion.

CHAPTER ONE

In Plutarch's "The Mysteries of Isis and Osiris" at Chapter IX this paragraph appears: "In the Temple erected at Sais (ancient regional capital, western Egypt) to Athena who, according to some is Isis herself, above the portal is inscribed in stone "I am all that has been, is and ever shall be, and no mortal has lifted my veil." Athena was a virgin goddess and like Mary, born of a virgin.

An apparition of the Virgin has appeared on more than 500 occasions in the years since 1251. It has always been assumed that she was the ghostly or angelic form of Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ although She never declared it categorically.

The turning point came at Lourdes in the foothills of the French Pyrenees on 25 March 1858. In response to a request by the visionary Bernadette Soubirous that She identify Herself, the apparition stated, "I am the Immaculate Conception." This has been twisted and turned by the Church of Rome to mean many things except the obvious. However, it is self-evidently not a name but an action and means: "I am fertilization of the ovum without sperm". This seems to say that She is self-fertilized.

That the Immaculate Conception of 1858 is Isis returning appears confirmed by Plutarch in Chapter LXII of his book: "Isis also called Athena which means, 'She Who originated from Herself'", i.e. She self-fertilized.

The mediaeval belief makes its enormous meaning clear in the surviving statuettes of the kind called "Vierge Ouvrante". These represent the Virgin as a wooden statue, the front of her body opening like a pair of doors to reveal the Trinity inside her: Father, Son and Holy Ghost, so that they appear to have originated from Her substance.

The first occasion when the Virgin in apparition appears to have abrogated her role as Mary, Mother of Jesus, occurred at Banneux, Belgium, a farming village ten kilometres south-east of Liege, between 15 January and 2 March 1933 when in eight apparitions to 12-year old Mariette Beco She identified Herself as "The Queen of All Peoples" and told the child, "Believe in Me and I shall believe in you."

This was the second great turning point in the founding of the New World Religion.

[Nasu]

[B] Athena was a virgin goddess and like Mary, born of a virgin.

Just a small footnote. I'm sure it was a simple mistake but according to the myth, Athena was not born of a virgin like Mary, she WAS a virgin in her life-time apparently, but was conceived by her mother Metis and father Zeus. Therefore Athena cannot be "She Who originated from Herself", as she originated from Zeus and so was not,"self-fertilized." According to the myth that is.

To be clear, I have no idea if Athena represented a historical figure or not. That being said an abbreviated version of the myth goes something like this: Zeus seduced the goddess Metis and had sex with her. Fearing that she would produce children wiser than him as had been foretold, he tricked her into letting him swallow her. After eating Metis Zeus married five more times each one a dud, until he married his final wife Hera. One day Zeus got a bad headache and asked Prometheus to chop his head open with an axe, as you do for a nasty headache. From the open wound sprang Athena, fully armed and fully grown and fully ready to go!

Not wanting to deride your post AT ALL. Looking forward to the rest of your postings....x.... N

[ExomatrixTV]

To me all (organized) religions boils down to Sold & Pushed "Perception Worship" needing followers not asking too hard critical questions!


Any assumed Prime Creator whatever name you want to give it ... that "needs" human worship is by default a paradox/oxymoron!

x9sqkahSziU

cheers,
John

[Gracy]

Just a couple of quick things for clarification here:


Athena was a virgin goddess and like Mary, born of a virgin.

This is the first I've heard of these two being born of a virgin. Virgins themselves? Yes, sure, but born of? That's a new one, or have I misinterpreted something here?


That the Immaculate Conception of 1858 is Isis returning appears confirmed by Plutarch in Chapter LXII of his book: "Isis also called Athena which means, 'She Who originated from Herself'", i.e. She self-fertilized.

The mediaeval belief makes its enormous meaning clear in the surviving statuettes of the kind called "Vierge Ouvrante". These represent the Virgin as a wooden statue, the front of her body opening like a pair of doors to reveal the Trinity inside her: Father, Son and Holy Ghost, so that they appear to have originated from Her substance.

On this one, I'm simply unclear if this is referring to the role as Mary, or Athena? Athena never gave birth but Mary did.

And so far as I know the idea of a "holy ghost" in the trinity, was purely a Christian take off from what was previously "father, son, and mother".

[pabranno]

That is a very interesting concept Gracie May. I’ve never thought on that possible connection between the Holy Soirit and Mother. Food for thought...

[Mecklenburger]

Dear Gracy May
Thank you for your comments.

The Church of Rome, not understanding what was meant by "Immaculate Conception" used the name to support its idea as expressed in "Ineffabilis Deus" of Pope Pius IX in 1854 that Mary was conceived without sin and her conception was therefore immaculate. As I said above, they twisted it this way and that to fit their ideas. If you have a Miraculous Medal, you will see inscribed around the border, "Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us sinners..." confirming that the belief is current.

How was Athena conceived?

There are a number of "vierge ouvrante". In the one I mentioned, the doors open to reveal the Father ("Allvater"), the Crucified Son ("Allkrist") and the dove of the Holy Ghost hovering over both of them. This dove might have been the Allmutter in some traditions, but neither the Teutonic Knights nor the German Templars mention Her.

[Mecklenburger]

Nasu
Thank you for your observation. Have to rush, will return to what you say tomorrow.

[Mecklenburger]

Gracy May and Nasu

Regarding the controversial births of Isis and Athena, said by some to be one and the same, the earliest knowledge we have of them appears to be the Egyptian builders of the temple at Sais who chiselled Athena above the portals as saying: "I am ALL that has been, is and will be..." Therefore neither can have had a parent. The myths and legends were posterior.

[Mecklenburger]

CHAPTER TWO

Twenty per cent of the 500 apparitions of the Virgin since the year 1251 have been made at one location, a total of 105. Between 1 November 1937 and 4 November 1940 the Virgin appeared in the churchyard of a Catholic village with a population of 2,000 in Hitler's Germany.

The venue was at Heede on the Ems river, close to the North Sea and Dutch border, and the Virgin appeared to four girls aged between 11 and 13 years: Anna Schulte, Margaret and Greta Ganseforth and Susanna Bruns. The Virgin was seen on 5 November 1937 standing on a white cloud with a luminous halo 30 to 40 cms from her body and surrounding her. Her age seemed to be about nineteen. "She wore a richly worked golden crown, a long white dress fitted at the waist by a cord, and a non-transparent white veil fell on each side of her with folds hiding her hair."

After a few days a Luftwaffe police detachment took the four girls into custody and conveyed them to a mental institution at Göttingen where they underwent psychiatric investigation for one month before being discharged unharmed, the Nazi authorities being satisfied that there had been no political incitement in the statements made by the Virgin.

On 5 April 1939 Margaret said, "I saw the Mother of God directly in front of me standing two feet away and asked how She wished to be invoked. She replied, "As Queen of the Cosmos and Queen of the Poor Souls in Purgatory".

In May 1939 She appeared thirteen times(!) On 19 October 1940, She gave the four girls a "secret" intended for the Pope. "Do not say anything to anybody other than to the Holy Pope of Rome". The message was placed in a sealed envelope and carried by Bishop Berning to Pope Pius XII. The last apparition occurred on the morning of 3 November 1940 when each girl received a "secret" and a farewell "until we meet in Heaven."

There are four interesting points to note about these series of apparitions.
1. Apart from the few sightings in the churchyard at Heede, the Church cannot be drawn into a discussion on where the other sightings or visits were made.
2. The apparition confirmed the existence of Purgatory over which She is Queen.
3. The series of apparitions would have been known to Hitler through his Luftwaffe adjutant Nicolaus von Below. The adjutant does not mention them in his memoirs and nor has any historian of the Hitler period even hinted at them.
4. The remoteness of the location. Why was Heede chosen? What purpose was served by these apparitions which were proven not to be political in nature and nor can they have been aimed at a devout Catholic village community?

(Source: Notes on the Heede occurrence are taken from the book "Spurensuche Maria Kevelaer" in the chapters 'Heede - Marienwallfahrt im Emsland - Blattus Martini'. See also various Heede websites.)

[Gracy]

And so far as I know the idea of a "holy ghost" in the trinity, was purely a Christian take off from what was previously "father, son, and mother".


There are a number of "vierge ouvrante". In the one I mentioned, the doors open to reveal the Father ("Allvater"), the Crucified Son ("Allkrist") and the dove of the Holy Ghost hovering over both of them. This dove might have been the Allmutter in some traditions, but neither the Teutonic Knights nor the German Templars mention Her.

Gotcha. I was thinking of preceding trinities still featuring the feminine, as in Osiris, Isis, and Horus for example. The feminine aspect of God/Goddess quality was conveniently lost from the equation along the way, in lieu of this weird, mysterious holy ghost I was taught about in bible school that never quite made sense.

[ExomatrixTV]

I watched this in the mid 1990s (±25 years ago) on a VHS tape (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS):

3LTmw9BMzWo
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71%2BfwKvY3pL._SL1100_.jpg

"The Naked Truth (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goLpfrjxDa8)" Documentary that got summarized by many what I call: "sub-documentaries" like: Zeitgeist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist_(film_series)) & Astrotheology (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAl0snG2ACA) saying the same but without the real necessary depths but got much more views without giving credit to this master documentary.

cheers,
John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
March 2nd, 2021



"The Naked Truth" ("TNT") series consists of a one-hour and a two-hour video that delve into the origins of religion, providing some of the important information found in The Christ Conspiracy (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_38.htm) and Suns of God - Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled (http://www.amazon.com/Suns-God-Krishna-Buddha-Unveiled/dp/1931882312/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241574534&sr=8-1).

Why is there no contemporary evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed?

This unique series is excellent for turning on friends and family to this explosive info. It is also a superb teaching tool for schools and churches, done in a very professional manner with distinguished spokespeople. The series is not a dry, scholarly chronicle, but incorporates relevant and fascinating facts into an accessible and comprehensible format for everyone of all ages and educational backgrounds.

Find out the secrets behind Christianity!

Why are the religious symbols of ancient Egypt almost identical to those of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions?

Learn how orthodox religious institutions have suppressed these truths to consolidate their power over the masses!

The one-hour version of The Naked Truth is ideal for people on the move, while the long version provides two riveting hours of revelation comparing the ancient texts of the Hindus, Sumerians, Persians and Egyptians with the holy books of later religions, in order to expose:


Uncanny similarities like those between the Virgin births (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_32.htm) of Krishna, Mithra, Osiris/Horus and Jesus...
Underlying astrological symbolism such as the two fishes of Christianity, representing the Age of Pisces...
How sun worship of the pagans was transformed into "Son" worship (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_57.htm#Sun of God) of today's Christians...
The history of the suppression of thought that has led to "holy wars," the Inquisition (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/vatican_holyinquisition.htm) and other reprehensible acts by the so-called righteous!

The Naked Truth examines centuries-old texts from different cultures that contain the exact same phrases - yet these cultures supposedly never interacted!
Were ancient pre-Christian texts plagiarized by conspiratorial religious zealots?

We all know it's easier to watch a video than to read a book, and only with a video can we share the experience with friends and family! Many people have had life-changing experiences while watching these videos--they are that powerful in freeing the soul of humanity from erroneous and enslaving ideologies.



http://whynotnews.eu/pix/screensnapshot-nakedtruth-docu.png


screen-snapshot source (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goLpfrjxDa8)



I had the privilege to interview Jordan Maxwell (https://www.jordanmaxwell.com/) for 3½ hours live unscripted for my "Untold Mysteries Radio Show" in 2006 (15 years ago).

related:


Matrix of Power - PDF (https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Jordan%20Maxwell%20-%20Matrix%20of%20Power%20-%20How%20the%20World%20has%20Been%20Controlled%20by%20Powerful%20People%20without%20Your%20Knowledge .pdf)

cheers,
John

[9ideon]

"Father, Son, and Mother".

Father Son(s) and Mother.

Nail on head I guess. Female deity done away with when the pre-flood story became a story of Gods, religion and so on (* Hebrew faith used to have Female Deity as well, but all was replaced by the Yahweh figure, aka Marduk)). I for one think they still live and are flesh and blood beings (not the Creator Source) which are basically called the builder race (I call 'm shavers).

[Journeyman]

This is a fascinating thread. @Mecklenburger I note your point about questions being best left for the end, so please view this post as a placeholder so that I can note some things which occur to me, hopefully for later discussion once you've had a chance to put the whole thing out there. :)

The question of the divine feminine is I think one of central importance to understanding the occult objectives of those pulling strings behind the scenes. I wonder if there's been a confidence trick played on the mass of humanity, a diversion to obscure the feminine divine, or if the real deception is still to come with the unveiling of a new religion?

There's a couple of things which I think should be considered. Firstly, the issue @Gracy_May alludes to above, where does the 'Father, Mother, Son, triptych go to and to what extent is the Holy Ghost a replacement for the Mother?

Here I think the Shekinah concept may be of import. This is sometimes represented as the feminine aspect of the masculine God, this may be a Kabbalist precept. I've seen someone argue that the true occultic significance of the ritual of 9/11 was the celebration or marking of the return of the Shekinah spirit for the New Age. If so, then there's a link to be made with the Virgin Mary appearances, the clear progression in Ancient Rome from the Magna Mater worship to the glorification of Mary and perhaps we are seeing the same divine feminine being, the self declared 'immaculate conception' being remade and reborn time after time with only the name changing.

I've shared this blog a couple of times. I don't agree with all the author writes, indeed it's borderline misogyny in parts, but there's some very interesting research, images and references to the figures of Cybele, Ceres, Ishtar and more:

http://iainsblogging.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-lady-of-rings.html

I found it, care of this super Alex Robinson blog courtesy of @Brigantia which is perhaps very relevant in this discussion:

https://toolonginthisplace.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/bloodlined-herstory-not-for-the-faint-hearted/



Alex also has interesting points about Unity, surely one of the key concepts of the One World Order that the One World Trade Centre and the Oculus at NYC are signalling will be key aspects of this new religion:

https://toolonginthisplace.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/dismembering-unity-part-i/

which via the Monas sigil leads into the other, related concept, the so called divine androgyne and the rejection of dualism and the masculine/feminine in favour of an alchemic unification of opposites, the words written on Baphomet's arm 'Solve et Coagula'. If the immaculate conception is that which gives birth to itself, that incorporates both masculine and feminine in one, then if we look to the androgyne lightbearer in the harbour of NYC, do we see there the true feminine of this New World Order Religion? An androgyne that's repeatedly shown itself in successive religons (https://truthxchange.com/2000/09/androgyny-the-pagan-sexual-ideal/#comments) back to Sumer and the Galli.

[Mecklenburger]

Journeyman

I preferred not to have the discussion until I had completed the entire posting since I am hoping to learn many things myself from what I set out here.
I am in agreement with your proposal in the fourth paragraph. There is an important revelation regarding ISHTAR in due course. In fact she is instrumental.
There is an underlying numerological system based on dates and names which I will come to during the week and this leaves in no doubt that a Great Plan stands behind the history. No human mind could have devised it in its complexity. Regarding the 9/11 ritual I have a line AB 112 years in length and I know what A is, but so far have not understood its significance to B. There is a link without doubt. Interesting! The Untersberg mountain from its days as a Templar commandery contains very much evidence.

[Journeyman]

Journeyman

I preferred not to have the discussion until I had completed the entire posting since I am hoping to learn many things myself from what I set out here.
I am in agreement with your proposal in the fourth paragraph. There is an important revelation regarding ISHTAR in due course. In fact she is instrumental.
There is an underlying numerological system based on dates and names which I will come to during the week and this leaves in no doubt that a Great Plan stands behind the history. No human mind could have devised it in its complexity. Regarding the 9/11 ritual I have a line AB 112 years in length and I know what A is, but so far have not understood its significance to B. There is a link without doubt. Interesting! The Untersberg mountain from its days as a Templar commandery contains very much evidence.

Ok, I will be looking forward to the next posts in the series and will refrain from asking questions until the end!

Meanwhile you have given me some interesting things to consider re the Untersberg mountain, which I'd not heard of before.

[Mecklenburger]

By all means ask away. I am glad to know of the interest.

[Mecklenburger]

CHAPTER THREE

Pope Pius XI and his Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli in the late 1930's were determined that at a time when the Church of Rome was being persecuted by Communist and Socialist regimes extending from the Soviet Union to Mexico and later Spain, no accommodation could be reached with them. On the other hand the Church was open to collaborate with totalitarian movements and regimes of the Right regarded nowadays as Fascist.

At Fatima, Portugal in 1917, the Virgin predicted that a second great war was coming which "would be worse than this one (i.e. the ongoing First World War) as a direct consequence of what was happening in Russia. In a subsequent apparition at Tuy, Spain in 1929, the Virgin predicted "the immense damage that Russia was doing humanity by having abandoned the Christian faith to embrace Communist totalitarianism."

The purpose of the second great war was the overthrow of the Bolshevik regime in Russia. The candidate for this immense task was going to be the future Nazi Germany under Hitler. Staggering under the burden of a lost war and opening too many Fronts, the Germans were soon beset by insuperable problems as the Higher Powers had probably foreseen might be the case. It is interesting to note that the last apparition of the Virgin at Heede occurred only six weeks after the Battle of Britain guaranteed Hitler a war on two Fronts in which the immense industrial production of the United States was soon bound to become involved.

The eldest of the three shepherd children at Fatima to whom the objective was imparted in 1917 received instructions later from the Virgin that she (Sister Lucia) was not to commit to paper the watery Third Secret until 1940, which she did that January. The incumbent Pope in 1960 was then to declare the watery secret to the world in 1960 but refrained from doing so in case people put two and two together and got four.

In the 1981 edition of the Catholic journal Stimme des Glaubens, the following verbatim extract appears from the meeting between Pope John-Paul II and a select group of German clergy at Fulda in November 1980:

Q. "Holy Father, why is the Third Secret of Fatima, due to be released in 1960, still being withheld?"

A. "Due to the gravity of what it predicts, my predecessors have preferred not to publish it. However, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this much: the oceans will flood entire sections of the Earth: that from one moment to another millions will perish. Therefore there is no longer any point in wanting to publish this secret message."

Here was a Pope with the gift of understatement. He knew that what was predicted was a natural event so calamitous that nearly all humanity will be wiped out by it. What was required for the future was the construction of unsinkable submarines able to navigate thousands of sea miles without refuelling. Their task would be to collect up those survivors who had sworn unfeignedly the Pledge of Loyalty to Our Lady of All Peoples as their Saviour during their lifetimes.

Heede, where the Virgin made over a hundred appearances during the years 1937 to 1940, lies near the North Sea coast and is no more than a hunded or so miles from the U-boat base at Bremerhaven and the main naval base at Wilhelmshaven.

Higher Forces do not become involved in wars on Earth but there is nothing to prevent them designing weapons for a war which had not yet come into being. A training boat commander with the flotilla commanded by Karl Dönitz was Oberleutnant Heinz Schäffer. In his book "U-977" (Chapter 14, latest Greenhill Books edition) Schäffer wrote, "...I do not understand the reason why it was not until 1943, and not much earlier, that U-boat Command decided on such a basic measure as assembling all the technical experts for the purpose of designing a new type of U-boat..."

What they came up with was "a quantum leap in submarine design and development", the Type XXI. It reached the battlefield too late to affect the course of the war (and took no active part in it at all) but had it appeared two years earlier it would have caused the Allies major problems in the Battle of the Atlantic.

The Type XXI U-boat had a large number of batteries located in the lower pressure hull giving the electric motors substantially greater efficiency than before. The boat was a true submarine, and on the surface could navigate 11,000 sea miles without refuelling. All that was needed now was some way to make it unsinkable.

[9ideon]

By all means ask away. I am glad to know of the interest.

I am intrigued. Please make a topic.

[Mecklenburger]

German scentists in Argentina succeeded in creating the unsinkable U-boat by 1960. Perhaps how this was done technically is not of the greatest interest and so if anybody wishes to know the details they have only to ask. Chapter Four will deal with the mysteries of the Untersberg and the demi-goddess Isais.

[Journeyman]

German scentists in Argentina succeeded in creating the unsinkable U-boat by 1960. Perhaps how this was done technically is not of the greatest interest and so if anybody wishes to know the details they have only to ask. Chapter Four will deal with the mysteries of the Untersberg and the demi-goddess Isais.

I've been reading about Untersberg from a link I found after your last post which led in turn to the Isais Offenbarung. This is a fascinating thread and I am very interested to find out what comes next. One suggestion, if you can include a link to the subsquent chapters in your first post, it will make it easier for people to follow your entire argument. It may also be worth once the ten posts are completed reposting them in a separate thread, or perhaps a Mod could merge them into that first post if length restrictions allow?

[Mecklenburger]

Yes of course I would be happy for the consolidation of the material into a single posting if a moderator can be found to handle it. I am posting Chapter Four now. The remaining trail is:

Chapter 5 and 6 a potted version of the Isais Revelation, I think it will need two of my chapters to cover it.
Chapter 7 and 8 the apparition of the Goddess Ishtar, the Templar conversation with her in 1236, I might fit this into one chapter.
Chapters 9, 10 and 11. The Numerology, and the War of Words between Our Lady of All Peoples and the Church of Rome, 1945-1985, this has quite a bit of correspondence.

[Mecklenburger]

CHAPTER FOUR
The Religious Doctrine of Marcion

Marcion (b. c.110 AD) was the son of a bishop of Sinope. The family were shipowners and wealthy. He was a reformer of Christianity and organized a parish of his own churches extending from Persia to North Africa, Italy, Asia Minor and Greece. He was considered a heretic by the majority of Christian denominations but the Marcionite sect proved much more popular than theirs in the four centuries of its existence.

Marcion rejected the Hebrew Bible in its totality and referred to the Hebrew God as Satan, reproaching the Jews for having made the devil himself into their God Almighty. Traces of this can be found at John 8:44, "you belong to your father, the devil." It is also said that he knew this apostle John. The Jews never called their God "Father" but "El Shaddai" - Sheitan, i.e. the fallen angel. This is how he is referred to constantly in the Untersberg texts.

The corpus of Marcionite sacred literature relates that Jesus, the "Allchrist", was sent into the world by the true God, Allvater, to show humanity the path of escape. Marcion wanted no reference to the Jews or their God in his canon and thus besides omitting the Old Testament he retained no more than a reduced version of Luke and some of the Letters of Paul. None of the writings of Marcion are known to have survived, but he travelled widely and some may have come into the private possession of the Untersberg Templars and not been released.

The Isais Revelation - Introduction

In the year 1222, the Templar Komturat covered approximately the area of modern Bavaria and eastern Austria with Vienna as its capital. The Komturei of the Bavarian section of the knight Hubertus Koch was not accepted as belonging to the main Templar Order.

In 1222 Hubertus Koch was returning from the Middle East with a small company. According to the surviving fragments of his notes, the demi-goddess Isais appeared to him during a quasi-diplomatic visit to Hasan ibn Sannah at the fortress Amalaut in the Iranian mountains. This would confirm Koch's close connection to the Templar Order even if they did not recognize his section as part of it.

Returning from Amalaut to Akkon, he came across an extensive field of ruins which he took to be the remains of the former Assyrian capital Nineveh. Awaking at dawn he saw by him the graceful "maiden-like figure of a girl" whose copper-coloured hair was "fluttering like a banner in a breeze" although the day was windless. She instructed him to go to the "mountain of the old God Wotan" at the Untersberg, which straddles the Austrian-Bavarian border near Salzburg, and await her next apparition. Koch came from Linz and so knew the mountain. He took the quickest route home via Alexandria, ship to Pisa and then horseback to the Bavarian Alps, and upon arrival built his first Komturei command house at the foot of the Untersberg (today Ettenberg). A second building was erected much higher up and it is assumed that the temple to Isais was set up between this building and the myriad caves and passages.

In the early summer of 1226, Isais made her first appearance, her hair changing colour constantly during the course of the day. From then until 1238 she appeared on numerous occasions to pass the Isais Revelation, news of Ishtar, the Holy Grail and much else including a description of the celestial regions. The Church drew a veil of silence over the matter but it was known to the Templars at Jerusalem.

The original complete version of the Isais Revelation - 134 verses perhaps amounting ot 7,000 words - was put together in the year 1238 on the instructions of Graf Weitenegg at the Templar HQ in Vienna. The first complete version was translated into the modern German of the time in 1862 and the texts published between 1985 and 1995 based on this translation are largely correct although the sketches are dubious.

[Mecklenburger]

CHAPTER FIVE

The Isais discourse provides a view into the celestial regions.The material is some 8,000 words in length. Isias may correspond to the Assyrian prophetess "Isai" who in Old Assyria appeared in apparitions as a special consultant to Tiglath Pheleser I and in New Assyria had the same role to King Sargon II Kingon.

At the Untersberg in the autumn of 1226 she gave the Templar knights three gifts: the looking glass of Ishtar/Freya/Venus; the finely-worked head of Wodin's spear, both of which had to be kept ready for use,("Wodin sleeps at the foot of this mountain deeply hidden in the rock awaiting the time of his revival in word and deed")( verse 71 - another name for the mountain is 'Wodinsberg'(verse 58.) and the eight-sided black-purple stone or crystal ILUA, the most important and valuable of her gifts which had always to be kept wrapped in a hank of her hair and lodged within the Untersberg mountain, may be the Holy Grail itself(verses 57 and 58). It was forbidden to set down the purpose of these three items in writing, their significance would be revealed later(verse 81). From then on Hubertus Koch's cadre of Templar knights were known in relevant circles but not officially as "The Lords of the Black Stone" (DHvSS) and formed a secret scientific section.

Underlying the Isais Revelation is the Marcionite heresy which denied that the Hebrew God of the Old Testament, always referred to in the Revelations as "Shaddai", was the same God as presented in continuation in the New Testament. Verses 98 and 99 make this clear; "The living messenger of the Allvater (the Father of Jesus Christ in the New Testament) was crucified by the Powers of Darkness. For it had been Allvater himself who was present as the Allchrist...".

Isais is more maiden than woman. She can display aggression while a few verses show the erotic component of her nature. The suggestion made by modern German commentators is that Isais is a "demi-goddess". She herself states that she comes from the celestial realms as "a daughter of Kuthgracht" (verse 31), this being the realm of the Daemons. These entities are not "demons" in the sense of the English word, but are "independent of the gods" and the most active enemies of the regions of darkness. Isais had been selected by the Allvater for her mission (verses 77 and 94), incidentally Isis had once also been a Daemon (Plutarch, The Mysteries of Isis, Ch.XXVII) and achieved the rank of Goddess by her virtue. The role of Isais was to achieve the goals set for her in the ongoing war between Heaven and the Powers of Darkness, understanding that darkness prevails on Earth and was even then, nearly eight hundred years ago, worsening: and she was to stop at nothing in order to bring about the Aeon of Light.

The irrevocable promise of eternal life is made to those who attain the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the realm of the Allvater, the original homeland of all beings (verse 21). He is never seen and communicates through runes(verses 83, 85). Mankind is mortal, but ultimately immortal(verse 3). The death on Earth is a beginning. At death people "good and bad" come to Purgatory over which Isais rules. Once released, each being chooses a route he or she wishes to follow as the path to Heaven (verses 30, 31). Those who worship Satan go directly to the appropriate realm. There is no mention of reincarnation in the Isais Revelation but a few of the early very tangled and misty verses might indicate that it occurs to some degree.

The stay in Purgatory may be just a few days or perhaps centuries. Our Lady of All Peoples, and the Virgin Mary before Her, requested the Church in vain to be granted the status of Co-Redemptrix so that they could use the prayers they would receive to release some of the enormous accumulation of souls imprisoned and languishing in Purgatory. It is interesting to note that in 1251 AD, only thirteen years after the Isais Revelation was passed to the Templars, that "Our Lady of Mount Carmel" visited the Carmelite Order of Simon Stock at Aylesford, England, offering to descend into Purgatory within one week of their death to redeem those of her devotees "irrespective of race or religion" whom she found wearing the brown scapular having followed a few basic rules.

A website on the Virgin Sophia gives a clue as to how we are to understand what comes next. "How does the philosopher love the Virgin? Sexually? There is considerable innuendo based on sexuality but here is the key - not physical sex. The Virgin of Wisdom must be loved in a way that is sexual but not in the way we understand. Consider what sexuality does. It unites the opposites in a symbiotic relationship, thus forming a higher synthesis."

All this is foreign (and possibly abhorrent) to Christians. But here in her Revelations we have Isais requesting her devotees to make an image of herself in wood, iron or stone (verse 60). Whoever kisses the mouth, neck and hair of this image will receive the kiss of the spirit of Isais in return. She will know those who are her true devotees. "I shall be with you and with those of your stock, each hour, each day and each year until our purpose is completed. Then Ishtar will receive the same devotion, though some of the brave of Valhalla may remain at my side, because in Purgatory the battle will not yet have ended. To those who eschew peace and tranquillity, I shall be not as a sister but bride and spouse instead" (verse 65).

There are numerous celestial worlds to where humans and animals may wander. At the centre of Purgatory is the glorious fortress realm of Valhalla where dwell the warrior gods with their wives(verse 15), some of whom are presumably the Valkyries of Nordic legend: both Ishtar and Isais have right of hospitality there. Also within Purgatory is Hell so-called, a creation of Shaddai, the Prince of Darkness who wages incessant war in his effort to take over Heaven and the Earth itself (verses, 16, 28, 35). Thus the warning against miscegenation(verse 60).

In the next chapter I am presenting the verbatim conversation held by Ishtar at Carthage in 1236 with two Templar knights from the Untersberg. To be clear, Isais explains that those beings whom we are pleased to call gods and goddesses are actually angels(verse 37). The highest Archangel is Ishtar (verse 125). "She lives in the realm of God from where she is sent forth as a radiant messenger with knowledge and advice. She is the protector of all people who fight for truth"(verse 44). Because the time in 1238 AD "had not yet come for Ishtar to take over her role"(verse 121), this writer is inclined to think that during the period from then until very recent times she was acting in the guise of the Virgin Mary.

[Mecklenburger]

CHAPTER SIX
Ishtar: The Templar Revelations

These confidential Templar Revelations date from the years 1236 (Carthage) and 1238 (Berlin, then still known as Tempelhof). The first of them, also known as the "Roderich Report" was written in German, the second in French.
The true names of the two Templars involved, the Knights "Roderich" and "Emmerant" are known, but the Portal has not published them out of concern for their descendants to avoid incidents such as occurred in earlier times.
The phrase "Templar Revelations" includes writings which became the common knowledge of the Order, whereas these more comprehensive revelations were secret to the Templar section of the Bavarian Komturei which the main Order did not recognize, (Die Herren vom Schwarzen Stein).

The Roderich Report
Sections 1 and 2 (of 4)

In 1235 the Untersberg Templar knights Roderich and Emmerant travelled to the area of what had once been Carthage (now modern Tunis) believing that the missing documents of Marcion might be discovered there. Carthage had been a centre of early Christianity. The Archdiocese of Carthage was established there in the 2nd century. They were drawn to the caves on a hillside running down to the sea and entered one. Within it they were astonished and afeared to be met by:

---"She (the apparition of Ishtar) was a figure of light and gold, and the finest green-shimmer, in the apparent form of a tall female. Her body was transparent, of supple slenderness. She appeared to be a wondrous being half-woman and half-maiden, undoubtedly not of this world. Her gleam gradually receded and her body became more distinct. Now we saw that she was wearing a long dress of small golden leaves; her face was narrow and pale and totally breathtaking. Her eyes, hair and fingernails shone amber, a gold circlet held back the masses of her hair which fell behind her to the ground. On her forehead was a golden crescent moon with points like horns, at its centre a golden sun. Her unusually large eyes stared at us, her lips seemed to glow. She was the most beautiful picture that a human being ever saw, but transparent and not of humankind.

"We were taken aback and fearful, though not of her. As her form continued to consolidate and lose its transparency, became almost capable of touch, we could feel her bodily warmth emanating from her. She took two steps towards us, hair swinging all around her body, smiling, her eyes full of friendliness. The whole grotto, which had probably once been a temple, was totally illuminated by her.

"We were lost for words and neither of us spoke. We knew that she was no devil being, we sensed her goodness. Finally when her body had become clear to see she spoke to us in a voice mild and bright, "I summoned you here without your knowing, and you came straight to it even though you do not know this place. Here, tonight and in the days to come, you will see and observe what once was of value."(Chapter 2, verses 1-6).

"Now that her words had broken the spell, I spoke up and asked for her identity. She responded at once, "I am Isai, Ishtar. The people who knew me here at this place called me Asherah. The people of the North who were your ancestors called me Idun. In that way each populace named me in the manner of their language." We stared at her and she smiled.(verses 7-12).

"Then Emmerant said that we were loyal followers of our Lord Jesus Christ and would never worship another deity no matter how beautiful she might be. Ishtar gave him a look askance like women do and seemed to find this declaration of my brother knight amusing. I felt a small shudder trickle through my soul when she replied, "I have heard your prayers to him, to my Divine Brother. But he is in his Kingdom and thus in himself. I, the Divine Sister on the other hand, am here once more, for a short while. For Jahn (i.e. Yahveh, Jehovah, Satan) will eventually only be defeated by female power"(verses 13-19).

"Ishtar now approached us much more closely and the tremendous sensation of power and strength that she exuded is beyond all possibility of description. She drew from her waistband a blue feather and held it in her right hand. Suddenly it turned into a dagger. Ishtar said to us, "Just as a soft feather transforms itself into a dagger in an instant, the Goddess of Love will become a Goddess of War when the moment comes to destroy Satan."(verses 20-25).

(Sections 3 and 4 of the Roderich Report and a synopsis of the fragmentary remnants of the report in French follow in Chapter Seven.)

[Mecklenburger]

CHAPTER SEVEN
Ishtar: Sections 3 and 4

"Ishtar turned the dagger in her delicate hand and it became once again the small blue feather. After returning it to the amber-gold belt, she said, "You and yours are the greatest seekers of truth amongst the people of this world. Therefore you shall find truth. First you must discover an old stone not far from here which bears the sign of my divinity and with it the sign of the hand in greeting. Beneath that stone you will find what you came here for. And you will also find the bequest of my Divine Brother which truly differs very greatly from that which you have been led to understand in many things. The Gospel according to Christ."(verses 1-7 of 7).

"She now sat on a stone stump surrounded by the waves of her auburn hair, and where it touched the ground the stones lit up and illuminated the grotto. She gestured with her hand that we should join her to hear what else she had to say. "That which you must know and remember above everything is this: In the past the Godhead placed under me the people of Babylon. They were of excellent stock and far wiser than all others of those times about how the Kingdom of Truth was to be created, and they built well. Nebuchadnezzar II finally destroyed Jehovah's Ark of the Covenant but even so the great city that should have become the centre of the world and the light for all peoples could not win. Even less so in this new city in whose ruins you see me now.(verses 4:1-9) (Footnote 1)

She went on, "This was why the Divine Brother to whom you pray determined to find another people to bring the Great Work to fulfillment. That race which is most similar to the Babilonians is the Germanen including the Franks who have accepted another language and erroneously believe themselves to be a separate people. Your faithful community will found a new world city whose location I will describe to you."(verses 4:10-13) (Footnote 2)

"This your new city will be the northern capital of your realm to accompany the southern capital which already exists, Vienna, so that never again can the realm be overcome if a central part goes under. This new realm will be the final torch-bearer of the Divine Light which is called to bring light to the whole world. That time will arrive when the Constellation of the Water Pitcher will pass over the world with the Magic Water of Life, the flow of which can never be stemmed by those of Jehovah's Hellish realm"(verses 4.14-17).

Verses 18-20 contain much repetitive fighting talk. Ishtar resumes at verse 4:21 with the promise, "I shall remain with the heirs to my Babylon evermore," meaning the Germanen and Franks. Then she rose and at the entrance to the grotto said, "I shall now describe to you exactly where you are to build a secret temple and place in it all your knowledge...and above this temple the new city (Berlin) is to be built. (These documents relating to the new temple Tempelhof are missing from the files).

Footnote 1. The warrior king Nebuchadnezzar II (634-562 BC) attacked Judah, captured Jerusalem and deported the Hebrew population into exile in Babylon where they were held captive for half a century but prospered, which presumably did the damage.

Footnote 2. This is said to be the meaning of the "Parable of the Evil Doers" at Matthew Ch.21, verses 43-45 in which Jesus, addressing the Hebrew priests and Pharisees, said "Therefore I say unto you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a people which will bring forth its fruit. Jesus than turned allegedly to a group of Germanic legionnaires in the service of Rome who had been listening to his discourse and said, "This is the people of whom I was speaking."

In Conclusion
The second report is fragmentary. Seventy-one years before the destruction of the Templar Order in 1307, the Templar realm would have had three European capitals: Paris, Berlin and Vienna. The true Gospel of Christ found at Carthage would have eclipsed the Bible as the true religion, and terminated the Roman Church and its clergy as the indirect servants of Jehovah. It would have been difficult to keep the Church of Rome in the dark about all these developments and plans, and finally perhaps we have the real explanation for the brutal and murderous destruction of the Templar Order beginning on 13 October 1307

In Chapter Eight: 1945, The Renewed Offensive against the Church

[Jim_Duyer]

To me all (organized) religions boils down to Sold & Pushed "Perception Worship" needing followers not asking too hard critical questions!


Any assumed Prime Creator whatever name you want to give it ... that "needs" human worship is by default a paradox/oxymoron!

x9sqkahSziU

cheers,
John

AMEN to that.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Religion can be a useful tool for some.


46240


46241

[Mecklenburger]

CHAPTER EIGHT
The War Between Our Lady and the Church of Rome

The problem of Purgatory had first been openly identified in the year 1251 when Our Lady of Mount Carmel promised to descend into Purgatory on the Saturday after their deaths to save all persons found there whom she recognized as one of her devotees irrespective of their race or religion.

St Bernard of Clairvaux, co-founder of the Templars, had a vision once in which he beheld two ladders extending from Earth to Heaven. At the top of one ladder the Christ appeared, Mary was at the top of the other. Those trying to enter Heaven by Christ's ladder were constantly tumbling down, and meeting with perpetual failure, those who attempted it by Mary's ladder always succeeded, for she put forth her hands to assist them.

Over the centuries the problem intensified. Bishop Alphonse de Ligouri in his book "The Glories of Mary" explained it simply. Jesus rules over the Kingdom of Justice. Only the perfect can get in. "Easier to pass through the eye of a needle than that a rich man enter the Kingdom of Heaven". Who is a rich man? "Mary has the Kingdom of Mercy. People should pray to Mary as mediator. There is no salvation outside of Mary."

This was why, since 1251, Our Lady had been petitioning the Church unsuccessfully to include her as Co-Redemptrix alongside Jesus. As the Church saw it, if the Mother had equal status with the Son, it elevated her, people would worship her, and damage the dogma. The suffering in Purgatory was irrelevant.

Bearing that in mind, it had been fifteen years since the last apparition of Our Lady, "Queen of the Poor Souls in Purgatory", at the village of Heede in Germany. The apparitions were now to be resumed in Holland.

Ida Peedersen (b.Alkmaar 1905) was a very devout woman gifted with slight clairvoyance. She shared a house in Amsterdam with her sisters. These sisters and later a priest would usually be present during the spoken apparitions of the Virgin and the eldest sister would note down the words which Ida spoke, repeating back what the Virgin said.

There were 56 apparitions to Ida Peedersen between 1945 and 1959. I have extracted the main items of interest. The primary aim was the intention to be recognized as Co-Redemptrix with Jesus Christ.

The first Apparition occurred on 25 March 1945 at Amsterdam. This date is the 600th anniversary of the Eucharistic Miracle of Amsterdam and the 87th anniversary of the apparition at Lourdes of the Immaculate Conception.

11 February is the Feast Day of the Immaculate Conception who identified herself as such at Lourdes on that day in 1858. Ninety-three years later to the day, 11 February 1951 at Amsterdam she stated:

"I have come precisely on this day to tell you that I wish to be known as Our Lady of All Peoples." Then she delivered her "Prayer" in which she cast aside her identity as Mary, Mother of Jesus. This prayer caused all the furore which followed:

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father,
Send now your Spirit over the Earth.
Let the Holy Ghost live in the hearts of All Peoples
That they may be preserved from degeneration, disaster and war.
May the Lady of All Peoples who once was Mary be our Advocate. Amen."

By the change of title and identity, the "Virgin Mary" wished to avoid the status issue with the Church. The Church objected to the last line and changed it. The Virgin replied, "The words must remain. Tell the theologians that I am not saisfied with the change in the prayer."

31st Apparition, 15 April 1951: "The Son came into the world as the Redeemer of mankind. The work of Redemption was the Cross. He was sent by the Father. Now, however, the Father and Son want to send Our Lady throughout the whole world."

32nd Apparition: I stand here as Co-Redemptrix and Advocate. The new dogma will be, "The dogma of the Co-Redemptrix."

The Church would not have it and now resorted to written instructions. The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith declared: "On 7 May 1956, the Bishop of the Diocese of Haarlem (Netherlands), following a careful examination of the case concerning the supposed apparitions and revelations of "Our Lady of All Peoples" said to have taken place in Amsterdam, finds no evidence of the supernatural nature of the apparitions and therefore prohibits public veneration attributing a supernatural origin to them..."

On 2 March 1957 the same Ordinary repeated the above statement, and in a letter dated 13 March 1957 the Holy Office praised the Bishop's prudence and pastoral concern, and approved of the measures taken.

In reply to an enquiry by the Bishop Haarlem on 29 March 1972, the Sacred Congregation confirmed the previous two decisions on 24 May 1972.

At Akita, Japan in the autumn of 1973, the convent of the Handmaidens of the Eucharist had in its chapel a carved wooden statuette of Our Lady of All Peoples with Japanese features. A nun, Agnes Sasagawa, began receiving messages from Our Lady through this statuette, which was also seen to weep subsequently on 101 occasions over a period of six years and eight months. One of the devotions ratified explicitly at Akita was the repeated request by Our Lady of All Peoples to be confirmed as "Co-Redemptrix of the Human Race." Referring to the monastic requirement "Poverty, Chastity and Obedience", Our Lady reiterated that "the greatest of these is Obedience", a point probably aimed at the Sacred Congregation in Rome.

On 13 October 1973, fifty-six years to the day since the major occurrence of the Descending Sun spectacle at Fatima, the Virgin delivered her apocalyptic warning:

"If mankind does not change its ways, a terrible punishment is to be inflicted on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the Deluge, such as one will never have seen before." A great part of humanity would be wiped out, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors would find themselves so desolate that they would envy the dead. And she made this offer: "I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach...those who place their confidence in Me will be saved."

On 25 May 1974 despite Akita, the Sacred Congregation "after a fresh and deeper examination of the case" confirmed their previous judgement, and invited priests and laity to discontinue all forms of propaganda with regard to the alleged apparitions and revelations of Our Lady of All Peoples and "exhorted all, moreover, to express their devotion to the Most Holy Virgin, Queen of the Universe, by forms of piety recognized and recommended by the Church."

It is interesting to note in the final sentence above that the Church had finally authenticated the apparition at Heede in 1939, this being the first time that the Church had ever admitted a description of the Virgin higher than "Queen of Heaven".

On 22 April 1984, Bishop John Ito of Niigata, Japan, declared the event at Akita to be of supernatural origin. Cardinal Ratzinger had noticed the numerological symbology and he confirmed the decision of Bishop Ito on behalf of the Sacred Congregation in June 1988.

Having pondered over the latest declarations for fourteen years, in 2002 the Bishop of Haarlem-Amsterdam, Msgr.Punt accepted that the apparitions and revelations of Our Lady of All Peoples had been supernatural after all.

However, so far as the Sacred Congregation was concerned, the full Prayer was a threat to The Dogma, which was all that mattered to the Church. Therefore the words "who once was Mary" must be omitted "out of consideration for those who do not understand the phrase" which included the entire Catholic clergy and pious from the Pope down. These people understood the phrase only too well, of course, but even if the phrase came directly from God's representative in person they were not going to have it.

The Sacred Congregation came up with a "compromise". The last line of the Prayer now read, "May the Lady of All Peoples, the Blessed Virgin Mary, be our Advocate." They brushed aside her request to be Co-Redemptrix and the phrase "who once was Mary" remained forever inadmissible.

At Fatima, Portugal on 13 June 1917, the Immaculata had declared that she wished to establish in the world devotion to her Immaculate Heart and promised salvation to those who embrace it. The 44th Apparition at Amsterdam stated: Our Lady of All Peoples promises to aid mankind if they acknowledge this title and invoke her under this title." If mankind does not acknowledge this title then only "those who place their confidence in Me will be saved."(Akita, 1973).

In this way, the problem of the overflow of souls languishing for centuries in Purgatory is going to be resolved without the Church sooner or later.

In the final Chapter: The Numerology

[Mecklenburger]

CHAPTER NINE
The Numerology

At Revelations 13:18, readers were told to "calculate the number of the Beast, for the number is that of a man, and his number is six hundred and sixty-six". The imperial authority which took pleasure in persecuting and slaughtering Christians in that day and age would not have been dificult to identify.

In more modern times Historicism is a method of interpretation in Christian eschatology favoured by Protestant reformers for identifying the Beast of the Apocalypse as the Papacy in its political and religious aspects.

Seventh-Day Adventist writers have interpreted the number of the Beast, 666, as corresponding to the Latin title Vicarius Filii Dei of the Pope calculating the number by using a form of gematria. Uriah Smith, an Adventist, proposed the interpretation in his book The United States in the Light of Prophecy (1884), pointing out that upon the pontifical crown in jewelled letters the Pope wears this title. "It is the number of the Beast, the papacy: it is the number of his name, for he adopts it as his distinctive title; it is the number of a man, for he who bears it is the "man of sin". The term, which means "Representative of the Son of God", is used on papal tiaras and the title "Vicar of Christ" has been applied to popes throughout the centuries. This opinion was approved by Adventist scholars and repeated by Uriah Smith in various later editions of the influential journal Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation.

On 13 October 1307, the Catholic Church conspired with the French king to disband and destroy the Knights Templar Order in circumstances of murderous brutality. The Church is "666", the Beast of the Apocalypse.

The proof of the Numerology is a gigantic "T" for "Templars". If readers draw a line 666 years in length up from that date of 13 October 1307, they will arrive at 13 October 1973 and discover the Apocalyptic prophecy of Our Lady of All Peoples made that very day. There can be no possibility of a coincidence. And it may even be that her warning "If mankind does not change their ways...." is actually meant specifically for the Church of Rome.

There is a branch 56 years in length either side of the stem of the "T". What Cardinal Ratzinger discovered and thought fit to mention too was that a line drawn from 13 October 1973 to fifty-six years before, to the very day, brings one to the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima in 1917. He did not understand the significance, he said, but thought he would mention it anyway. And I have reason to believe that a line drawn fifty-six years ahead in the other direction, to 13 October 2029, is the edge of the Void by when the Apocalypse will have already happened.

Was there a connection between Fatima and Akita, a deliberate design? It seems that that was the case. Using the alpha-numeric system for the alphabet in English, A equals 1 through to Z equals 26:

First Names, Both Seers
Lucia (Fatima) 12+21+3+9+1........46
Agnes (Akita) 1+7+14+5+9..........46
Total 92

Both Locations
Fatima 6+1+20+9+13+1...50
Akita 1+11+9+20+1....... 42
Total 92

Vowel Order
FATIMA AIA .....191
AKITA AIA .....191
represented in the Tarot by The Empress (Divinity) seated between the two columns of the Temple portal.

This concludes my posting.

[Journeyman]

This concludes my posting.

Thank you, this has been a very interesting thread and that's thanks to considerable effort on your part. Please be assured your work is appreciated. :) :clapping:

I hope that it can be made easier for new readers, either by reposting the ten posts in succession in a new thread, or perhaps a mod can merge them into a couple of posts? Not that it's not possible to read them now though, so no real problem :)

There's a lot to unpack and I'll return once I've had time to think further. First thoughts:

I've posted some links further up that point to other possible avatars of this Queen of all peoples., although some of them are not as seemingly benign as the entity that emerges from the Templar accounts or from the Heede or Fatima apparitions. Here we have clear links to Ishtar, Neith, Athena and thus we can presumably add Minerva, Ashtar? I mentioned the Magna Mater worship that seemingly morphed into Mary worship after Constantine made Rome Christian. The Kabbalists refer to the Shekinah, as the feminine aspect of God which is markedly absent in the Abrahamic religions, or at least the versions of them which are available to the masses... Then there's whether Cybele, Ceres, Demeter and others are also simply other names for the same force?

The entire Untersberg mountain accounts (http://thelivingmoon.com/46skyfloating/02files/Untersberg_01_addendum.html) are fascinating and tie in to British legends of the once and future sleeping king under the mountain, right down to the significance of ravens.

Worship is clearly important in the accounts given. There's argument over the terms of the prayer, in particular 'that once was Mary'. I'm thinking now of the accounts of energy harvesting and if they're significant in this?

The Fatima references remind me of a Bill Cooper account of the US government fearing an ET operation. Upon gaining access via intel sources to the Vatican's account of the appearance and the hidden third prophecy they allegedly confirmed the account with the aliens they were in contact with and were shown a hologram of the crucifixion and warned that the threat of Apocalypse was very real and imminent. At that time I think he says they start building the D.U.M.B's in large number and great scale.

You mention:



TWhat Cardinal Ratzinger discovered and mentioned too was that a line drawn from 13 October 1973 to fifty-six years before, to the very day, brings one to the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima in 1917. And I am certain that a line drawn fifty-six years ahead in the other direction, to 13 October 2029, is the edge of the Void by when the Apocalypse will have already happened.

I wonder if you've come across Rudolf Steiner's accounts of the incarnation of Ahriman? That may coincide with those timings according to this from Terry Boardman (http://threeman.org/?p=2905)

However, can you expand further on how this fits in to your timeline?


Regarding the 9/11 ritual I have a line AB 112 years in length and I know what A is, but so far have not understood its significance to B.


I'm still trying to understand the exact occult significance of the 9/11 destruction of the WTC.

That's enough for now, thanks again for making such an interesting thread.

[Mecklenburger]

I have replied to Journeyman's questions by PM.

[Nasu]

I have replied to Journeyman's questions by PM.

That's a shame, it would have been interesting to hear your thoughts on his post.

Would you mind if I asked why you didn't reply to Journeyman's questions here?... N

[Mecklenburger]

I would respectfully respond to the questions of Journeyman as follows.

I have reported following the numerological and historical sequence to the present day to show how it affects us now as I see it. The Numerology begins with Ishtar in Babylon and from there to Bavaria in 1238. Then she appears from 1251 under the guise of the Co-Redemptrix Our Lady of Mount Carmel and the Virgin, and latterly as Our Lady of All Peoples who once was Mary beginning in March 1945.
The tangle of all the other goddesses mentioned in the question is not revelant to the sequence.

The original version of the Untersberg is the Untersberg. No doubt when British Templars returned to Britain from Europe having heard the Untersberg legend they substituted King Arthur and the ravens for Odin and Wotan since that would be more acceptable to British listeners. Many Britons would remember Odin and Wotan as being the gods of the Danelaw when Britain was under the unloved Danish occupation a century or so before.

Speaking as one originally brought up in the "Church of England" tradition the reason for the importance which Catholics attach to the Virgin Mary was not immediately obvious to me either. Only after my Hindu period did I begin to see things more clearly. Here the Virgin Mary suddenly declares that She who is addressing you now was once known as the Mother of Jesus. She wishes that to change. As Co-Redemptrix at the side of Jesus Christ but no longer His mother, She is intent upon establishing the World Church in which all other religions are swept away and Jesus rules alongside His sister, Our Lady of All Peoples, who is the goddess Ishtar, as she proclaimed in 1236.
That is the enormous significance of those four words and has nothing to do with "energy harvesting", whatever that is.

Particularly since the peculiar circumstances in which the new regime in the United States "seized power", as the Nazis would have put it, and in general at all times before that I do not have anything to say about the claimed contacts of the American Government with anything or anyone without some kind of decent proof.
Furthermore we await the first public apparition of Ahriman El Diablo with interest, no disrespect intended, but for the time being he appears to inhabit computers and exists in the minds of fertile thinkers.

As regards the last paragraph I have now understood that A and B are not connected. I can confirm that "the exact occult significance of the 9/11 destruction of the WTC" is contained within the system of numerology outlined in Chapter 9 but I do not think I would be doing anybody a favour by revealing the information.

I trust this answers both Journeyman and Nasu.

[prc]

waiting for Chapters 10 and 11.

[Mecklenburger]

prc

In my opening sentence I stated: "I estimate that this thread can be completed in ten postings."

That was correct: there are nine chapters plus one put aside (see my post of 2 March) because I doubted that the readership wanted to know the story of the unsinkable postwar Type XXI U-boats first seen in South Atlantic waters in 1960.

In Chapter Nine you have the indication that the Final Apocalypse will have occurred by 13 October 2029 at the latest and the only survivors (promise of Our Lady of All Peoples, 13 October 1973) will be "those who place their confidence in Me", i.e. in Our Lady of All Peoples.

If you would like to let me know what you expect to see in the extra two chapters please do so here or by PM.

If you are puzzled as to why The Higher Powers might want to destroy civilization totally, I suggest you read the posting of 15/12/2017 "The Behind the Scene Dirty War of WWII". I found this most enlightening indeed.

[lunaflare]

Thank you Mecklenburger

What is your understanding of the "Black Madonna" statues found in various shrines in Europe?

I was also musing that in terms of numerology, it appears that the first names of seers--Fatima and Akita --/locations/vowel order add up to 11.

In the Rider/Wait deck this represents Justice. Also a woman sitting between two pillars or columns of a temple portal

[Mecklenburger]

lunaflare

The correspondences such as the one you point out confirm the link between the two locations which the Church had denied for twenty years because it did not like the 1951 prayer. It was Cardinal Ratzinger who identified the cataclysms predicted by Our Lady in 1917 and 1973 as being identical and thus forced the Church to "admit its error". The numerology gives further support.

Being a follower of the German Templar tradition I understand the Black Virgins from the Bavarian point of view.

Many people allege that the Black Virgins are the Magdalene, but if that were the case I am sure that the Church would have managed to accommodate them into the dogma. Instead, the Church has never approved.

Pope Gregory I (590-604) and St Bernard of Clairvaux both confirmed that Mary of Bethany was synonymous with Mary Magdalene. In drafting the constitution for the Order of the Knights Templar in 1128, St Bernard specifically mentioned a requirement for the obedience of Bethany, the castle of Mary and Martha. It is demonstrably evident that the great cathedrals of Europe of wholly Cistercian-Templar instigation were dedicated to the Magdalene. Allegedly she "knew the All" and transmitted the true secret of Jesus. The Madonna is black because Sophia is black, having existed in the darkness of Chaos before the Creation. The Gnostics held that the Sophia (Wisdom) was the Holy Spirit and incarnate as the Holy Ghost in Mary Magdalene.

This is all very well, but if the Magdalene was revered or worshipped as a Black Virgin what was aimed for by doing so? If the Templars instituted the worship of the Black Virgin as a continuation of the line of goddesses of antiquity we seem to be on firmer ground.

St Bernard, co-founder of the Knights Templar Order, devoted more time to the Song of Songs than any other book of the Bible, giving rise to the suspicion that the Templars were actually dedicated in secret to the Mysteries of Astarte. The Song of Songs is no doubt a fragment of the ritual of Tammuz: at 2:12 the word "Zamir" means "the ritual song of Tammuz".

Tammuz was revered by the peoples of Babylonia and Syria. He was the consort of Ishtar, revered by the Sumerians as Inanna and the Canaanites as Astarte.

Astarte was warrior goddess of Canaan, western semitic counterpart of Ishtar, and so both were interchangeable as the lover of Tammuz, both were identified with the moon and Venus, and the myths of both were associated with rites of fertility. If the goddess was not present, crops failed, cattle and human females remained barren...

There is a fairly direct connection between Astarte/Ishtar of the Song of Songs and modern Christianity. At 2:1 in the Song of Songs, the goddess Astarte says: "I am black but beautiful, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, I am the rose of Sharon, the lily of the valleys..." Astarte is black, therefore Ishtar is black.

In 1251, 56 years before the arrest of the Templar knights and the dissolution of the Order, an apparition calling herself Our Lady of Mount Carmel became the first of the "Marian" apparitions, offering to descend into Purgatory one day every week to save any person there whom she recognized as her devotee. In pre-Christian myth, Ishtar had entered the realm of the dead to rescue her lover Tammuz. Mount Carmel overlooks the coastal plain of Sharon.

For this last part, see my Chapter 3, from paragraph 5 down. In November 1980, at Fulda, Germany, Pope John-Paul II, declared the Third Secret of Fatima to a meeting of German clergy. That same month, in company with Cardinal Ratzinger, the Pope went to the shrine of the Black Virgin at Altötting, Bavaria (the statuette dates from c.1330 and the chapel from 660 AD.) presumably to pray. After Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict, on 11 September 2006 - note the date - he returned to the shrine at Altötting and donated the episcopal ring he had worn as Archbishop of Munich. It now forms part of the sceptre held by the Black Virgin.

Ratzinger/alias Benedict is the Pope known in the ancient prophecies of St Malachy as "Gloria Olivae" the last but one of the line. In Ezekiel 8:3 the shrine of Astarte was at the right hand side of the Temple opposite the north gate: Astarte was thus in the place of darkness and the Underworld: the exact spot on which the shrine stood was the Mount of Olives.

It would not surprise me if during his encumbency Ratzinger went through a crisis of faith which made it impossible for him to unfeignedly practise the rites of Christianity and so he abdicated.

[Journeyman]

This has been fascinating, an insight into a mythos I'd never come across. I've held off replying because I can see so many angles to this. For instance, it's a very different view of the Templars who I've previously seen portrayed as either Luciferian and/or the precursors of the Banking cabal that rule today. See 'Temple Bar' in London etc. That's just one of many rabbit holes. Hopefully this post doesn't confuse matters! :blushing: It may be that I should remove some of this for another thread...

The divine feminine question is perhaps most significant? Abrahamic religion seem to have written the feminine out as Gracy May points out as the Mother becomes the Holy Spirit whilst the Roman magna mater becomes the Virgin Mary. The Isais revelations perhaps could be seen as a correction to this process? A correction the Catholic Church has resisted?

Also, on a Biblical worldview, when I read the thread title I thought of the Revelation prophecy of a One World Religion championed in end times to replace Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc with a unified 'Chrislam' as a cover for Luciferianism/The Beast system. The current Pope seems to signal some support for this and has recently travelled to the ziggurat of UR, which some hold to be the remnants of Babel? How does this fit into that interpretation, if indeed it does?

I think 'who is Isis' is an important question also. Is Isis one aspect of the divine feminine who is also incarnating as these different Goddesses?
(http://whale.to/c/inanna.html)
I mention this because of the seeming omnipresence of Ishtar across the world today, particularly amongst the so called elites. Ishtar is regularly invoked and celebrated in their rituals. (https://thewizardofozandtheolympics.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-dark-goddess-ishtar-and-2017-sex.html) All the usual suspects, Katy Perry (http://revelationnow.net/2015/02/02/super-bowl-49-occult-ishtar-and-jupiter/) or Rihanna and Beyonce (https://illuminatiwatcher.com/2017-grammys-illuminati-occult-symbolism-of-the-high-profile-ritual/) again etc can be found doing similar at the global rituals thinly disguised as award shows and sports events.

The Statue of Liberty is often cited as an avatar of Ishtar (although Attis may be a better fit), as are Columbia, Brittania, Astarte, Mary. The gates of Ishtar in Hollywood (http://whale.to/c/ishtar_gate.html) seem to suggest elite worship of her.

Is this new religion the religion they've been following all along? Are they trying to erase the divine feminine, or keep the masses from embracing it in order to retain their favoured position?

The Owl in Washington and at Yale has also had me thinking. If Ishtar is Athena / Minerva as Plutarch's account suggested, then is the Owl symbol hers as well? Or is Washington DC actually a way of neutering the power of the divine feminine?
Zachary Hubbard posits this on his Gematria effect (https://gematriaeffect.news/venus-the-sacred-feminine-and-the-battle-for-humanity/) site:


Venus and other expressions of the Sacred Feminine are metaphors for that which makes a human human: heart, conscience, emotion, care.

In esoteric metaphorical terms – or cosmic vibrational terms – the war that humanity is currently engaged in is to save the sacred feminine and in the process save itself.

Incidentally, at the risk of opening another rabbit hole, the correlation of Islam with Venus and the feminine made me think that bringing Christianity (Sun) and Islam (Moon) together may be what the 9/11 destruction of the twin towers of Jachin and Boaz was meant to depict? The new tower embodies the upward and downward facing masculine and feminine triangles, the two religions are brought together in similar fashion and the excluded Shekinah aspect of the Godhead is finally returned to the rightful place?

I could go on, but that's surely enough, my confusion really stems from the question of who Ishtar, or Isis, or Astarte, or Inanna is? A seemingly endlessly reinvented deception (https://luciferianapotheca.com/blogs/articles-of-luciferian-witchcraft-and-magick/14046457-astarte-ishtar-inanna-isis) from a fallen angel? Or a misrepresented and misunderstood missing piece (https://www.joannakujawa.com/inanna-ishtar-isis-mary-magdalene-recovering-the-lineage-of-the-lost-goddess-and-other-stolen-stories/)of the divine puzzle?

[Kryztian]

Thank you for this. I have been studying Marian apparitions for years and was unaware of the apparitions at Heede. I find this especially interesting because there was a message intended for the Pope. While Sister Lúcia (the only one of the three children to survive the 1917 flu epidemic shortly after they saw the apparition at Fatima) had the third secret and was waiting for instructions to reveal it, her Bishop ordered her to write it down and she put in an envelope with instructions to open it in 1960. The children who have received messages in Medjugorge, Bosnia, also have messages which they are withholding from the Vatican. Many Catholics want the Vatican to validate these apparitions which the Vatican is most reluctant to do. They finally gave some support that there is something going on in Medjugorge, but emphatically state they do not support the messages that these six people (who were children in 1985) now have.



4. The remoteness of the location. Why was Heede chosen? What purpose was served by these apparitions which were proven not to be political in nature and nor can they have been aimed at a devout Catholic village community?


Most apparitions seem to happen in out of the way places, but sometimes seem to be directed at centers of power, hundreds and thousands of miles away.

[Mecklenburger]

In my Numerology the connection between Hitler (born 1889) and his leaving this Earth (1945) is 56 years.
It is 56 years from 1945 to 2001, after which the Apocalypse will occur at a date prior to 2029.
It is 56 years from Fatima (1917) to Akita (1973).
And it is 56 years from Akita (1973) to the conclusion of the prophetic series (2029).

Isis is 9+19+9+19=56. and so it may be that the assumption by Journeyman is correct.
"The statues of the Madonna holding the infant Jesus in her arms, which were erected in Catholic Churches, are almost exact copies of the effigies of Isis suckling her baby son Horus found in Egyptian temples."

According to the Isais Offenbarung, the time of Ishtar, sister of Jesus Christ, is not yet until all those things which follow are accomplished. Isais (as proclaimed in 1226-1238) acts in her place.

As it is stated hereunder, all humanity, including all the rich and all the elites and all the politicians who are, after all, humans like ourselves. are to wiped out with the following exceptions.
The survivors, the true devotees of whatever religion, will reform as the "Assembly" of devotees of Our Lady of All Peoples Who Once Was Mary.

On 31 May 1955 the apparition stated: People have to attain to unity, to be one,and over them the Lady of All Peoples. May the Lady of All Peoples Who Once Was Mary be Our Advocate (i.e. before God).
In the 45th apparition She continued: "The final Marian dogma of "Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate" will then give peace, true peace, to the world."

The word "Co-Redemptrix" implies a Redeemer with whom Our Lady Of All Peoples acts in company. This Co-Redeemer would seem to be Jesus Christ.

All other speculations might be better suited to a separate posting.

[Journeyman]

In my Numerology the connection between Hitler (born 1889) and his leaving this Earth (1945) is 56 years.
It is 56 years from 1945 to 2001, after which the Apocalypse will occur at a date prior to 2029.
It is 56 years from Fatima (1917) to Akita (1973).
And it is 56 years from Akita (1973) to the conclusion of the prophetic series (2029).

I found this on the significance of 56 (https://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu56.php)in numerology. A couple of the references looked relevant, a mention by Plutarch in his 'Isis and Osiris' and a link to the mother of the Virgin Mary via the works of Mary Agreda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Jesus_of_%C3%81greda).


Isis is 9+19+9+19=56.[/B] and so it may be that the assumption by Journeyman is correct.
"The statues of the Madonna holding the infant Jesus in her arms, which were erected in Catholic Churches, are almost exact copies of the effigies of Isis suckling her baby son Horus found in Egyptian temples."

According to the Isais Offenbarung, the time of Ishtar, sister of Jesus Christ, is not yet until all those things which follow are accomplished. Isais (as proclaimed in 1226-1238) acts in her place.

I found some interesting iconography associated with Isais here (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/95/79/00957992d3b0e61a1293322a4df4ad6b.jpg). The spear with vril sign (rune?) and Templar cross leaped out.


As it is stated hereunder, all humanity, including all the rich and all the elites and all the politicians who are, after all, humans like ourselves. are to wiped out with the following exceptions.
The survivors, the true devotees of whatever religion, will reform as the "Assembly" of devotees of Our Lady of All Peoples Who Once Was Mary.

On 31 May 1955 the apparition stated: People have to attain to unity, to be one,and over them the Lady of All Peoples. May the Lady of All Peoples Who Once Was Mary be Our Advocate (i.e. before God).
In the 45th apparition She continued: "The final Marian dogma of "Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate" will then give peace, true peace, to the world."

The word "Co-Redemptrix" implies a Redeemer with whom Our Lady Of All Peoples acts in company. This Co-Redeemer would seem to be Jesus Christ.

All other speculations might be better suited to a separate posting.

Yes that's probably right. I actually came back to revisit that last post after a walk, as I knew I had too much going on in it. Not my intention to derail the discussion. I think I'll maybe start a separate topic on Isis/Ishtar/Semiramis and the elite, because that seems like an important topic in and of itself.

[Mecklenburger]

There are a series of separate themes on an "Isaisbund" website. Your iconography (I assume you mean the plate at bottom left) illustrates the three gifts which Isais gave the Untersberg Templars (verse 81 Isais Offenbarung), namely the looking glass of Ishtar/Freya/Venus, the finely worked head of Wodin's spear and the octagonal black-purple Grail Stone which has always to be kept in a skein of her hair. This latter is the most valuable and important of her gifts.

The Isaisbund website extends its thinking back to Sekhmet of Ancient Egypt, and forward to the Isaisbund of 1940, when it had to go underground. Incidentally from one of these Isais sites we see more evidence that the thinking of Pope Pius XII and Benedictus XVI (Cardinal Ratzinger) was very much influenced by the Isais Revelation, I will be quoting these verbatim later.

[norman]

I hope this doesn't feel too much like a turd in an otherwise very esoteric punch bowl, but the thread needed a bump and this post needed a home.

The title seems a bit silly, even satirical, but it's good to see bishops and others finding an expression of their individuated faith, however garbled it starts to form.

[ or is this a Hegelian 3rd/4th way sneaking it's way in? ]

Catholic Bishop EXPOSES Vatican's Deep Globalist Ties (https://podbay.fm/p/man-in-america-podcast/e/1672793490)
Man in America - Published January 3, 2023

SHOW NOTES
Join me for an important interview with Catholic Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

https://rumble.com/v23q4ka-catholic-bishop-exposes-vaticans-deep-globalist-ties.html

v213zpy/?pub=4

[norman]

https://mlgh11zoxxmj.i.optimole.com/cb:TNZH~18d86/w:289/h:108/q:mauto/https://www.thehighersidechats.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/logo-higherside-chats-white-transparent.png

The title of this interview recording with Chris Knowles doesn't do it justice. After a preamble through the shallow end of pop culture, when it gets up to full altitude, this discussion goes well into the whole notion of a big picture manoeuvring towards the next big 'religious' paradigm in the works.

He's not fully clear about it yet but thinks the "Watchers" are where the action is going to be as things move along. There's a lot more than that going on in this chat but you'll have to dive in and listen to it. I'm already on my 3rd run through it and I'm putting my downloaded copy into my special folder for stuff I want to keep handy for regular revisiting and cross reference with other stuff that makes it into that folder.


The Higherside Chats - Chris Knowles - Cults of State, Pop Culture Rituals, & The Final Hurdle (https://podbay.fm/p/the-higherside-chats/e/1672691390)
1 hour 36 minutes Posted Jan 2, 2023

SHOW NOTES
About Today’s Guest: You know him, you love him. Chris Knowles of The Secret Sun Blog walks us through the weird World Cup ritualizations, the Balenciaga Saga, & more to kick off a new year right.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlfpTmQaMAAI0bY.jpg

[Matthew]

The Science is an undiagnosed religion :bigsmile:

People don't realise they follow a belief system. I'd say that was true with old science in most cases, although The Science is far more religious.

- No questioning, and dissent is relegated to the 'dangerous' category
- The Science Pope, Facui. He changed his mind back and forth and people followed obediently
- Paraphernalia like masks and PVC screens
- Rituals like 6 foot apart and bleaching of hands

[Michel Leclerc]

I wish to add a small linguistic snippet to the original discussion Mecklenburger launched. Thank you, Mecklenburger, for your 10 Chapters.

Linguistically speaking (referring to the word radical stock of Semitic and, more largely speaking, Nostratic languages), Ishtar is not only Astarte, Astaroth etc. but is Isis as well. Isis is basically a Graecisation of the Semitic/Hamitic word Ishah or Ishat that means Woman, the word for Man being Ish (-ah/at are classical Hamito-Semitic suffixes denoting the female). Ish/Ishah being Biblical equivalents of Adam and Eve ([’dam] "Earth/clay” and "[hayyah and hawwah]Life/Snake"). ('In older Dutch and German translations of the Old Testament, one finds words like "mannin" and "Menschin" as translations for Eve.) So Ishtar/Astarte/Astaroth are combinations of Ishat+(an "r" element)+(again the feminine ending), at least in AstartTe and AstaroTH. This "r" element is basically Ra, the sun God. Astar(te)/Asta(roth) meaning "the man-female creation of/by Ra”. This "r" or Ra element is encountered again in the name Israel, as Ish-Ra-El, meaning: "the man creation of/by Ra-on-high" (cf. the Egyptian origin of the Israelites).

Interestingly the Templars witnessed an apparition of ”Ishtar”; as we may presume they spoke Old High German or early Middle High German, they would have called a sister "swester" or already the modern form ”Schwester”. This strikes the observer as similar to "Ishtar": might they have associated a hardly understandable name with a known word, and does the whole co-redemptrix idea originate from there? It might, but if we look at the Indo-European form of the concept, something like *swesor (which yielded Germanic sister/Schwester/zuster/systar, but also Latin soror and Greek thugatèr (and has cognates in virtually all Indo-European languages), *suesor itself looks like what is called in linguistics a "reduplication", i.e. a word which is the result of the combination of two parts of an original word merged [[a typical example is the Greek kuklos ("wheel", which yielded the English "cycle"), which harks back to an old word root or word KLU or KLW, which yielded a fragment KU, that was stuck to KLU and then got an ending added (S): KU+KLU+S ("u" being equivalent with "o" here)]]; similarly *SWESOR would be the recombination of fragments of SUR into SU-E-SU-R, with "r" being the ending. It follows that *SUR/SUESOR is identical with Ishtar/"Schwester”: Ishtar as vowel prefix + S/SH+feminine ending A/T + R(a) and SUR/SUES(t)OR as S/SH(reduplicated)+feminine ending A/T + R(a).

This is not empty wordplay because Isis was as divine consort, also the sister (!) of Osiris. And Osiris is the graecisation of ISH-R(a), i.e. the “man creation of/by Ra”.
The sculptures of Jesus on Mary’s lap repeating the sculptures of Horus (the reborn Sun!) on Isis’ lap unequivocally reveal the real etymology of the name "Jesus": it is not in the first place Yeshuah, which is a Hebraisation of an original Graecisation (Ièsous) of a name starting with Ish: Jesus is the son of Isis (the Isi-ite, so to speak) and of "the man creation by Ra”, Osiris. And because both roots mean "man", he is indeed the "son of Man".

That however, brings us back to the co-Redemptrix idea. Mary (incidentally, the best etymology for her name is Old Egyptian, in which it means "sweetheart", as a term of endearment used by the pious for Isis herself) has always been the Co-Redemptrix, whether she is the mother or the sister of the Son. The point is not how the family is assembled or re-assembled, but that she also redeems. In the Egyptian mythos, when Osiris has been murdered by Seth/Satan/Shaddai, both Isis and Horus are instrumental in reassembling the body fragments of Osiris (the souls in Purgatory) [also Jesus is said to have descended into hell even to save the souls there] so that Man can be resuscitated.

(If I may be allowed a slight criticism of the a little too easy condemnation of "male theology" having eliminated the female from the Divine triad: such is definitely not the case as the theology states that Mary is Jesus’ mother – so that the phallic principle represented by the Father and the Son remains "whole", "integrated" thanks to its passing through the Divine Womb (the Vesica Piscis) by divine fatherly penetration/insemination first, and then by divine motherly birth and this "communication" between them IS "Wisdom", Sophia, AND "allows" divine Spirit, symbolised by the Dove.)

Finally, ad Athena: Martin Bernal has persuasively argued that Athena was black (in his "Black Athena”).

[amor]

A thoughtful response to the subject of existing and yet not having been born in the animal/human way, exiting the vagina or having a C section exit: You can be a CLONE. You can be an AI, and bring about clones within your mind-entity to whom you will be an overlord or God etc. There may also be possible to have a world populated by many of these AI Gods who rule within themselves but also interact with other AI's who have physical bodies and/or are mere physical computers or quantum computers. Broaden your perspective as to forms of MIND which may exist singly or in layers. Have fun.

[Houman]

moved to another thread

[Tintin]

I wish to add a small linguistic snippet to the original discussion Mecklenburger launched. Thank you, Mecklenburger, for your 10 Chapters.

Linguistically speaking (referring to the word radical stock of Semitic and, more largely speaking, Nostratic languages), Ishtar is not only Astarte, Astaroth etc. but is Isis as well. Isis is basically a Graecisation of the Semitic/Hamitic word Ishah or Ishat that means Woman, the word for Man being Ish (-ah/at are classical Hamito-Semitic suffixes denoting the female). Ish/Ishah being Biblical equivalents of Adam and Eve ([’dam] "Earth/clay” and "[hayyah and hawwah]Life/Snake"). ('In older Dutch and German translations of the Old Testament, one finds words like "mannin" and "Menschin" as translations for Eve.) So Ishtar/Astarte/Astaroth are combinations of Ishat+(an "r" element)+(again the feminine ending), at least in AstartTe and AstaroTH. This "r" element is basically Ra, the sun God. Astar(te)/Asta(roth) meaning "the man-female creation of/by Ra”. This "r" or Ra element is encountered again in the name Israel, as Ish-Ra-El, meaning: "the man creation of/by Ra-on-high" (cf. the Egyptian origin of the Israelites).

Interestingly the Templars witnessed an apparition of ”Ishtar”; as we may presume they spoke Old High German or early Middle High German, they would have called a sister "swester" or already the modern form ”Schwester”. This strikes the observer as similar to "Ishtar": might they have associated a hardly understandable name with a known word, and does the whole co-redemptrix idea originate from there? It might, but if we look at the Indo-European form of the concept, something like *swesor (which yielded Germanic sister/Schwester/zuster/systar, but also Latin soror and Greek thugatèr (and has cognates in virtually all Indo-European languages), *suesor itself looks like what is called in linguistics a "reduplication", i.e. a word which is the result of the combination of two parts of an original word merged [[a typical example is the Greek kuklos ("wheel", which yielded the English "cycle"), which harks back to an old word root or word KLU or KLW, which yielded a fragment KU, that was stuck to KLU and then got an ending added (S): KU+KLU+S ("u" being equivalent with "o" here)]]; similarly *SWESOR would be the recombination of fragments of SUR into SU-E-SU-R, with "r" being the ending. It follows that *SUR/SUESOR is identical with Ishtar/"Schwester”: Ishtar as vowel prefix + S/SH+feminine ending A/T + R(a) and SUR/SUES(t)OR as S/SH(reduplicated)+feminine ending A/T + R(a).

This is not empty wordplay because Isis was as divine consort, also the sister (!) of Osiris. And Osiris is the graecisation of ISH-R(a), i.e. the “man creation of/by Ra”.
The sculptures of Jesus on Mary’s lap repeating the sculptures of Horus (the reborn Sun!) on Isis’ lap unequivocally reveal the real etymology of the name "Jesus": it is not in the first place Yeshuah, which is a Hebraisation of an original Graecisation (Ièsous) of a name starting with Ish: Jesus is the son of Isis (the Isi-ite, so to speak) and of "the man creation by Ra”, Osiris. And because both roots mean "man", he is indeed the "son of Man".

That however, brings us back to the co-Redemptrix idea. Mary (incidentally, the best etymology for her name is Old Egyptian, in which it means "sweetheart", as a term of endearment used by the pious for Isis herself) has always been the Co-Redemptrix, whether she is the mother or the sister of the Son. The point is not how the family is assembled or re-assembled, but that she also redeems. In the Egyptian mythos, when Osiris has been murdered by Seth/Satan/Shaddai, both Isis and Horus are instrumental in reassembling the body fragments of Osiris (the souls in Purgatory) [also Jesus is said to have descended into hell even to save the souls there] so that Man can be resuscitated.

(If I may be allowed a slight criticism of the a little too easy condemnation of "male theology" having eliminated the female from the Divine triad: such is definitely not the case as the theology states that Mary is Jesus’ mother – so that the phallic principle represented by the Father and the Son remains "whole", "integrated" thanks to its passing through the Divine Womb (the Vesica Piscis) by divine fatherly penetration/insemination first, and then by divine motherly birth and this "communication" between them IS "Wisdom", Sophia, AND "allows" divine Spirit, symbolised by the Dove.)

Finally, ad Athena: Martin Bernal has persuasively argued that Athena was black (in his "Black Athena”).

Simply magnificent post - thank you. And there's a little embarrassment that I hadn't seen this valuable contribution before :flower: With my rudimentary understanding of etymological roots, this is really helping. Great stuff :highfive: