Atlantic Voyages by Europeans pre-1300

[Mecklenburger]

PART ONE (OF TWO)

In order to preserve the fallacy that Europeans could not have been in North America in the 14th century because to do so challenges the Columbus fiction, it is necessary for academic historians to "overlook" certain pointers. Recent scientific investigations by historians who have no interest in Columbus have provided much to take into account however.

What we already know is that in about 1250 AD, a Viking sea-going boat arrived at Dieppe in France from the island of Marajo, Brazil, carrying information and precise maps made in connection with the felling and smuggling of brazil-wood tree trunks from the Amazon. (Jacques de Mahieu, El Rey Vikingo p.174).

In the 13th century, the French Templars would have known all about Dieppe and the secret timber trade and perhaps they would have been curious to know, if they did not know already, how far the world might extend across the sea west from France.

It is self-evident from the Dieppe 1250 map alone that Viking explorers had been on the coast of Brazil for at least one or more centuries, and so academics are bound to concede as a historical fact that the Vikings might have been on the coast of Brazil to the south, and also on the coast of Nova Scotia to the north, but never, ever, anywhere in between.

In conclusion, PART TWO.

[Bill Ryan]

Many thanks, and this is so very interesting. I don't want to interrupt your Part Two, but in searching for the Viking maps you mentioned I found this fascinating article. Jacques de Mahieu's El Rey Vikingo del Paraguay is given as one of the references.

Were Vikings in South America Over 400 Years Before Columbus?
https://ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/vikings-south-america-0013694

[Mecklenburger]

I am the author of the item you reproduced. Thank heavens I do not have to draft it all again. The new evidence is of a different nature, totally unexpected.

[ExomatrixTV]

"This Could Change American History As We Know It" | America's Lost Vikings:

gn1SUV5vaI4


Evidence of Vikings in South America - ROBERT SEPEHR:

PX8asjQznBs

[Mecklenburger]

PART TWO - THE VIKING ATLANTIC VOYAGES, 1035 AD.

"The discovery of a Norse camp at L'Anse aux Meadows proved that the Viking sagas were not entirely fiction. North Atlantic archaeologists have never looked for Norse sites in the Atlantic islands of Madeira and the Azores but some traces may exist." NatGeo.

MADEIRA ISLAND (source at foot of posting).

"New surveys at Ponta de Sao Lourenco have allowed us to obtain and date ancient bones of mice. The date obtained (28 years either side of 1033 AD) documents the earliest evidence for the presence of mice on the island, suggesting that humans reached Madeira before 1036 AD.

"On Madeira in the second radio carbon dating of fossil bones of mice, the DNA from current populations of the house mouse mus.musculus domesticus of Madeira shows similarity with those of Scandinavia and Northern Germany (but not with the Portuguese mainland). This line of evidence suggests that northern Europe was the source area, and raises the possibility that the Vikings could have brought house mice to the island as stowaways on their boats. There is at present no historical evidence for Viking voyages to Macaronesia (i.e. Madeira and the Azores.)

THE AZORES ARCHIPELAGO (source at foot of posting)

"Given the facts stated, it is reasonable to think that the presence of F clade on Santa Maria and Terceiro (and also a small number on the islands Faial and Flores) could represent a single colonization event from the main distribution area in the North Atlantic. The precedence is provided by the colonization from Madeira by mice apparently brought by Danish Vikings well prior to the Portuguese discovery in the 15th century."

There is much less information in the Azores official report than in the one on Madeira. In Part One I made a comment about scientists omitting evidence which might challenge long-established fallacies. Whereas Madeira is only 869 kilometres south-west of Sagres in Portugal, the Azores archipelago is only 2,750 miles from the American coast between modern Virginia and Washington. Whereas we have the carbon dating of the Madeira mice, there is no mention of the dating for the Azores mice, and so the authors of the report either forgot to put it in, or decided to leave it out. Why would they do that?

For Viking mariners, the Azores was within reasonable sailing distance of the American coast. The Viking route was Denmark/North Germany to Madeira and then the Azores. Where did they intend going from there? One suspects west. Oh my God, four hundred years before Columbus.

Sources:
Rando, Pieper and Alcova, 7 April 2014. Proceedings of Royal Society B: the research teams from the Medical Institute for Advanced Studies, Mallorca, and the University of La Laguna analyzed bones of two mouse skeletons found in dunes on eastern edge of Madeira. (Radio carbon evidence for the presence of mice on Madeira Island one thousand years ago).

Gabriel, Mathias and Searle, "Of Mice and the Age of Discovery". The Complete History of Colonization of the Azores archipelago by the house mouse mus.musculus as revealed by mitochondrial DNA variation. J.Evo.Biol.2014, Nov.2014

[Bill Ryan]

For Viking mariners, the Azores was within reasonable sailing distance of the American coast. The Viking route was Denmark/North Germany to Madeira and then the Azores. Where did they intend going from there? One suspects west. Oh my God, four hundred years before Columbus.
Yes, getting on for halfway there. :thumbsup:

https://projectavalon.net/Atlantic_Azores_Madeira_Norway.gif

[Brigantia]

Even further back than that, there is the enigma of cocaine and nicotine found in Egyptian mummies. UK's Channel 4 did a documentary about it in 1996, here's a link but it needs a sign-in. (Edit - thanks for finding that one that doesn't need a sign-in Bill!)


https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-mystery-of-the-cocaine-mummies


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_uH2epvZww

There is also the enigma of Lake Superior's missing copper, mined from the island known today as Isle Royal around 3000BC; half a million tons was mined of which there is no trace in the archaeological record of North America. Phil Coppens wrote about it in this article (https://www.eyeofthepsychic.com/copper/).

[Sirus]

When I was in primary school (under 12's in the UK) back in the 80's, we were told that the vikings were assumed to have landed in the North Americas. It's not a new theory.

[Cognitive Dissident]

I take your Vikings, and I up the stakes with the Romans - specifically the legendary "lost" Legion 9... you can listen for free and there is a high level summary below

David Brody, Romans in America, Beyond Pre-Columbian Silliness |493|
Skeptiko – Science at the Tipping Point
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/skeptiko-science-at-the-tipping-point/id210217437?i=1000514116350

David Brody looks at the substantial archeological evidence of 2nd century Romans in America.

Don’t you just love the Romans? I know I do. There's Vespasian talking about those pesky Jews that he’s trying to put down in the first revolt in 66 AD. And most importantly, he’s talking about that strange prisoner general Josephus, who makes all these amazing predictions. Boy oh boy, I don’t know where to begin folks, you’re gonna hear a lot on this history of Josephus, Vespasian, the fake fake history that’s told to us that can be demonstrated is fake and can be demonstrated has some deep, deep implications for what the real history probably was. It would take a long time to fill in all the gaps and I can’t really do it here, you’re going to get bits and pieces like you normally do in this show and maybe you can help guide me towards how we can compile this into something meaningful. Maybe you can even help, maybe you know more about these topics than I do. There are many of you out there that I know have some very specialized knowledge.

I have a terrific interview to kick off this series. It’s with a gentleman I really like and respect. And I think he’s written a great book that you’ll enjoy. And he certainly has a fascinating story to tell about the Romans in America in the second century. And he has, I would say, overwhelming archaeological evidence at least compared to the mainstream historical narrative which I got to tell you when we get into this with Dave, but like one little story he tells is he has all this solid archaeology he’s done, coins that he’s found, forts that he’s uncovered or the army core of engineers have uncovered which date back to the second century, date back to being in the hands of the Romans and date back to having connections with Jewish people. And what he faces, an opposition to that research from the mainstream, the ordained history is unbelievably ridiculous.

Like again, I want to tell you this little story, like one of the explanations from mainstream history, in terms of how these coins from the second century wind up in the Ohio Valley is, well maybe a bird flew over you know, and had the coin in his beak and dropped it, how stupid is that? Yeah, maybe there was a flock of birds and they all had coins and they dropped them in and around the same place. Another explanation, this is from mainstream history, in order to prop up the ridiculous narrative that they need to promote on this is maybe a coin collector went to the beach and lost his coins on the beach and then they got washed up and they got found. Like yeah you know, hey we’re going to the beach, please swing by my safe deposit box and pick up my collection of golden Roman coins. What’s, you know it’s funny except that this really is kind of what we sometimes square up against when we’re dealing with mainstream history and religious history.

[Mecklenburger]

Bill Ryan

Your map shows the source point as Norway. The DNA evidence is Denmark/Schleswig. The Maine Penny fits the timeline, minted in Norway within the tolerance of the carbon dating, 28 years after 1033 AD, but lacks the correct origin.
It is interesting to see from your map that after getting to Madeira they made a quarter turn about to the north-west. Remaining on that course they would have made Nova Scotia with the benefit of more favourable winds. Perhaps the idea of the expedition was to find oceanic outposts as suggested by Nat Geo above and in that they were successful.

Cognitive Dissident

Re your final paragraph, the Madeira report mentions that bird traffic and driftwood were considered but such an idea was untenable.

[Bill Ryan]

When I was in primary school (under 12's in the UK) back in the 80's, we were told that the vikings were assumed to have landed in the North Americas. It's not a new theory.No, it's not! But it's definitely overlooked.

A couple of points that Mecklenburger might comment on:

He'll know about the carvings of what looks to be maize in Rosslyn Chapel near Edinburgh, predating Columbus (again). But that would have been brought back to Britain by the Templars, who also may have made early Atlantic crossings.

https://agro.biodiver.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Rosslyn-Cactus.jpg

And all these anomalies do suggest that it wasn't just a matter of one or two exceptional exploratory voyages. There's evidence that there may have been established trade.

[Justplain]

I believe that evidence indicates that European/Mediterranean societies visited the western hemisphere before even the Romans. The Phoenicians are a case in point. I have read that when they were hunting for the shipwreck of the Canadian boat, the Bluenose, in the Caribbean that at the same site on a corral reef they found artifacts of a Phoenician shipwreck. Although I haven't done an extensive investigation of the literature, here is an article on research on this topic:

https://phoenicia.org/america.html

[Mecklenburger]

Bill Ryan

I do not have the knowledge you mention about Rosslyn Chapel.
However when I was investigating the Vikings in Paraguay/Bolivia some years ago I heard the suspicion spoken of here locally that the Templars might have had a smelting operation for the Potosi silver and the mountain where they were doing it. I'll see if I still have the notes but it was a good ten years ago.

[Strat]

I recently read a book on the Mali empire which alluded to the fact that they may have visited South America prior to Columbus. Evidently the ships which allowed the Europeans to travel such distances across the ocean in the first place were of Arab design.

https://face2faceafrica.com/article/way-before-columbus-ancient-malians-sailed-to-the-americas-in-1311

I'd like to hear you folks' opinions on this.

[Mecklenburger]

Strat

The Arab dhow is probably the type of oceanic boat you are thinking of.

Bill Ryan

I have unearthed information regarding the Templars in Argentina/Paraguay/Bolivia prior to Columbus which may not be well known. I will post it in a couple of sections paraphrasing the translation.

[9ideon]

For Viking mariners, the Azores was within reasonable sailing distance of the American coast. The Viking route was Denmark/North Germany to Madeira and then the Azores. Where did they intend going from there? One suspects west. Oh my God, four hundred years before Columbus.
Yes, getting on for halfway there. :thumbsup:

https://projectavalon.net/Atlantic_Azores_Madeira_Norway.gif

Adjusted the directions a little.

https://i.postimg.cc/N02dtzxG/Crossing-II.gif

That's the spot they could have crossed from (more less).

[Journeyman]

I wonder reading this if one of the reasons the conquistadores were so thorough in their destruction of the records of the civilisations they conquered was to expunge any record of the Templars or other Europeans having been there before them?

Also, the supine welcome they received is often linked to the legends of white Quetzalcoatl, so they thought that the Conquistadors were him returning. What if instead they had far more recent contacts with visitors from the East, men who came to trade and not to pillage?

[Bill Ryan]

https://i.postimg.cc/N02dtzxG/Crossing-II.gif

That's the spot they could have crossed from (more or less).Yes, but only if they already knew where they were headed. :)

[9ideon]

https://i.postimg.cc/N02dtzxG/Crossing-II.gif

That's the spot they could have crossed from (more or less).Yes, but only if they already knew where they were headed. :)

Exactly, Phoenicians apparently did it that way, there's also stories about Romans, Egyptians etc. Vikings were all over the place, it is assumable they were able to obtain maps, deliveries etc (like the Templars). In any case, the old ships would have gone for the short route trying to stay as close to land as possible.

[Bill Ryan]

An article published today in The Guardian: :thumbsup:


https://theguardian.com/science/2021/oct/20/vikings-settled-north-america-1000-years-ago-solar-storm

Solar storm confirms Vikings settled in North America exactly 1,000 years ago

https://projectavalon.net/Vikings_crossing_the_Atlantic.jpg

Half a millennium before Christopher Columbus crossed the Atlantic, the Vikings reached the “New World”, as the remains of timber buildings at L’Anse aux Meadows on the northern tip of Canada’s Newfoundland testify.

The Icelandic sagas – oral histories written down hundreds of later – tell of a leader named Leif Erikson and a settlement called “Vinland”, assumed to be coastal North America. But while it is known that the Norse landed in Canada, exactly when they set up camp to become the first Europeans to cross the Atlantic, marking the moment when the globe was first known to have been encircled by humans, has remained imprecise.

Now scientists using a new type of dating technique and taking a long-ago solar storm as their reference point have established that the settlement was occupied in AD1021 – all by examining tree rings.

Three juniper and fir logs that were cut from the Newfoundland settlement date it to exactly a millennium ago, 471 years before Columbus’s first voyage.

It has been thought that the settlement, L’Anse aux Meadows, was thriving somewhere between 990 and 1050. This was based on stylistic analysis of architectural remains and a handful of artefacts examined after the settlement was discovered 60 years ago. The dates also tally with interpretations of the Icelandic sagas, which were written down in the 1200s

This study, published in the journal Nature, (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03972-8) made use of the cosmic-ray induced upsurge in atmospheric radiocarbon concentrations during a known solar storm in AD993, which released an enormous pulse of radiation that was absorbed by trees at the time.

The logs, with bark still attached, were from trees alive during that solar storm, and excavated from the site. Such solar storms are reflected in annual tree growth rings. In all three samples, 28 growth rings were formed after the one that bore evidence of the storm, meaning the trees were cut in AD1021.

Ordinary radiocarbon dating – determining the age of organic materials by measuring their content of a particular radioactive isotope of carbon – proved too imprecise to date L’Anse aux Meadows when the site was discovered in 1960, although there was a general belief it was from the 11th century.

Proof that the trees were cut by Vikings was there, too. “They had all been modified by metal tools, evident from their characteristically clean, low-angle cuts. Such implements were not manufactured by the Indigenous inhabitants of the area at the time,” the study by scientists at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands said.

“We provide evidence that the Norse were active on the North American continent in the year AD1021. This date offers a secure juncture for late Viking chronology. More importantly, it acts as a new point of reference for European cognisance of the Americas (https://www.theguardian.com/world/americas), and the earliest known year by which human migration had encircled the planet.”

The Vikings possessed extraordinary boat-building and navigation skills, establishing settlements on Iceland and Greenland. “Much kudos should go to these northern Europeans for being the first human society to traverse the Atlantic,” Michael Dee, a geoscientist and co-leader of the study, told Reuters.

The date corroborates two Icelandic sagas – the Saga of the Greenlanders and the Saga of Erik the Red – that recorded attempts to establish a settlement in Vinland by a leader named Leif Erikson.

Also known as Leif the Lucky, he was the son of Erik the Red, who was the founder of the first Norse settlements in Greenland. According to the Saga of the Icelanders, Leif established a Norse settlement at Vinland, which is usually interpreted as being coastal North America, though speculation remains over whether this is the L’Anse aux Meadows settlement.

“I think it is fair to describe the trip as both a voyage of discovery and a search for new sources of raw materials,” Dee said. “Many archaeologists believe the principal motivation for them seeking out these new territories was to uncover new sources of timber, in particular. It is generally believed they left from Greenland, where wood suitable for construction is extremely rare.”

The 1021 date roughly corresponds to the saga accounts, Dee said, adding: “Thus it begs the question, how much of the rest of the saga adventures are true?”

[Bill Ryan]

An article published today in The Guardian: :thumbsup:


https://theguardian.com/science/2021/oct/20/vikings-settled-north-america-1000-years-ago-solar-storm

Solar storm confirms Vikings settled in North America exactly 1,000 years ago

More on this, which is actually quite a development. Many had suspected the Vikings had crossed the Atlantic long before Columbus, but at last this is proof that's being accepted by the mainstream scientific and historical community.


https://explorersweb.com/2021/10/22/vikings-in-north-america-1021ad/

The Norse Lived in North America by 1021 AD

https://s3.amazonaws.com/www.explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/22023017/Lanse-aux-Meadows4.jpgParks Canada has recreated the Norse village at L'Anse aux Meadows, on the northern tip of Newfoundland.

Just this week, Danish researchers discovered evidence that supports a decades-long theory that the Norse established the first European settlement in North America.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/www.explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/22023302/Anne-Ingstad.jpg
Anne Ingstad discovered the Norse site at L’Anse aux Meadows in 1960.

Back in the 1960s, archaeologist Anne Ingstad and her husband Helge discovered a Norse village on the northern tip of Newfoundland called L’Anse aux Meadows. It is the only certain Norse settlement ever discovered in North America. Scientists had some idea of its date of occupation but it was never precise.

The new findings (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03972-8), published in Nature on October 20, 2021, provided the first concrete evidence that the Norse clan that settled L’Anse aux Meadows came from the Netherlands and they were there exactly 1,000 years ago.

Norse vs Vikings

These days, the terms Norse and Viking are used interchangeably, but although they were the same people, the Norse were traders and the Vikings were warriors.

Using accelerated radiocarbon dating technology, geoscientist Michael Dee and his lab at the University of Groningen analyzed wood samples from the settlement. By chance, a mass solar storm that occurred in 993 AD created a substantial spike in carbon isotopes. That spike caused a type of marker in the biomass living at the time of the storm. And that marker is specifically detectable in the wood samples that Dee and his lab pulled from L’Anse aux Meadows.

In fact, today’s technology is so accurate that, coupled with analysis of the chop marks on the samples (characteristic of the metal tools that only the Norse had access to), Dee was able to date the wood samples down to a single year: 1021 AD.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/www.explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/22024629/LanseAuxMeadows_LargeBuilding.jpgThe actual site of one of the former structures at L’Anse aux Meadows.

It’s now the earliest date that we know of for Europeans to have settled the New World.
Incredible new C-14 study in @Nature (https://twitter.com/Nature?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) pinpoints the date of the only known Norse settlement in North America to the year 1021. Exactly 1000 years ago. https://t.co/VzzUiO5zMC
— Søren Sindbæk (@SSindb) October 20, 2021 (https://twitter.com/SSindb/status/1450859700728258561?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Birgitta Wallace was part of an archaeological crew for Parks Canada in the 1970s and played a role in L’Anse aux Meadows’ excavation. During that time, scientists unearthed the Nordic-style wooden samples on which Dee’s team applied modern dating methods. Wallace had the foresight to preserve a few untouched wooden scraps nonchemically, by stowing them in a freezer.

“We thought that in the future, there would be methods which we couldn’t even think about at the time,” said Wallace, who is now retired. “The exciting part, in a way, is not the excavation. It’s when you analyze everything afterward and see what information you get out of it — what it leads to.”
(https://explorersweb.com/author/jilli/)