Pooling resources and knowledge: An alternative escape. UK.

[Ewan]

Hypothetical situation. Ten stakeholders put together the money to buy a place.
What's the chance we all manage to get along without schisms and fractures?

The way I see it it would be like living in an apartment block, you know your neighbours, you say hallo, occasionally you have a barbecue together or similar. Everyone needs their own boundaries and no-one is obliged to take part in any social gatherings.

On the plus side, with ten stakeholders from Project Avalon there is an awful lot of common agreement, but sure you can pick a fight if you focus on differing opinions.

Here is a couple of examples.

Orchardton Castle

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/107905673#/

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/236k/235847/107905673/235847_103479000761_IMG_00_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/236k/235847/107905673/235847_103479000761_IMG_02_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/236k/235847/107905673/235847_103479000761_IMG_04_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/236k/235847/107905673/235847_103479000761_IMG_21_0000.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/qtk7YFV.png

https://i.imgur.com/9JlG1DU.png

https://i.imgur.com/0IGVoKn.png

https://i.imgur.com/BKBQCNT.png

Bargany House, Ayrshire

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/102572771#/

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/48605/102572771/48605_GLS200136_IMG_00_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/48605/102572771/48605_GLS200136_IMG_01_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/48605/102572771/48605_GLS200136_IMG_17_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/48605/102572771/48605_GLS200136_IMG_18_0000.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/9CNexN4.png

https://i.imgur.com/urKLXEV.png

[Journeyman]

Baggsy the turret room! :dancing:

[Ewan]

Just £1.5m (https://assets.reapit.net/stp/live/pdf.php?p=SFA200036&t=S)


Carbisdale Castle was built between 1905 and 1917 for Mary Caroline, Duchess of Sutherland, the second wife of George Sutherland-Leveson-Gower, 3rd Duke of Sutherland, whom she married in 1889. She is better known as “Duchess Blair” because of her first marriage to Captain Arthur Kindersely Blair of the 71st Highland Light Infantry, who died in a hunting accident in 1883 near Pitlochry. The marriage was not well liked in the Sutherland family and when the Duke died in 1892 his will, in favour of the Duchess, was contested by his son, the 4th Duke. In a court process that followed, the Duchess was found guilty of destroying documents in attempt of securing the inheritance and was imprisoned for six weeks in Holloway Prison, London.

Eventually, the Sutherland family came to an agreement giving Duchess Blair a substantial financial settlement. Furthermore, the family agreed to build a castle for the Duchess, as long as it was outside of the Sutherland Estate.

https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/10297699/1346943952/image-0-1024x1024.webp


Grounds and Loch

The total extent of land within the legal Title to Carbisdale Castle extends to about 20 acres and is shown on the Title plan included within these particulars of sale.

The approach to the castle is via impressive entrance gates flanked by circular stone pillars with a drive which leads for about 800 metres to terminate at the enclosed gravel carriage sweep in front of the castle.

A particular feature of the property is a natural loch which lies about 1km to the west of the castle accessible by a vehicular track over which the owner has a right of access.

Extending to about 6 acres in size with ownership including the belt of land and woodland which surrounds the loch, this is a notably picturesque and peaceful place to quietly contemplate life or cast a fly for the wild brown trout that occupy it.

[Johan (Keyholder)]

Excellent ideas Ewan!

But how about this place... in nature, at the seaside, paradise (still even now I think)... and just a bit less expensive.
And yes, it IS for sale! Harder to travel there though. But once there, you can swim with...WHALES!

I was there before it was created (1985, 1990 and 2005), a fabulous place and friendly people.

Have a look... especially the videos too!

https://www.serenitybeaches.com/

[Blastolabs]

Excellent ideas Ewan!

But how about this place... in nature, at the seaside, paradise (still even now I think)... and just a bit less expensive.
And yes, it IS for sale! Harder to travel there though. But once there, you can swim with...WHALES!




Is the property you are referencing in Belize or Tonga? Looks like the one you linked is in Tonga, although I did find one for sale with the same name in Belize.

[Johan (Keyholder)]

It's in Tonga. Ha'Apai group of islands. Not so many people travel there.
In 1990, just ten visitors a week.

[Matthew]

I'm counting on this type of idea myself; it's something I've heard other (like-minded) people talk about as an escape. I like the idea of collaborating where each participant doesn't need to use all their cash, seems like the ideal situation.

My timescale is to start the process of moving this year. I want the start of 2022 to be in a ruddy huge castle wooooo!!! isolated property away from the brain-washing


edit update: in my tiny excited mind we could have many escape ideas like this in parallel at once!!!

[Brigantia]

Even a small suite of rooms would be out of my price range unfortunately, especially when my car's finally fixed (hopefully on) Friday after a very complicated repair... but you'd need a cleaner for a place that size, I'd be happy to work with accommodation included!

[Matthew]

Even a small suite of rooms would be out of my price range unfortunately, especially when my car's finally fixed (hopefully on) Friday after a very complicated repair... but you'd need a cleaner for a place that size, I'd be happy to work with accommodation included!

There are plenty of people who have no way of contributing financially and my instincts say we need to keep being/making friends. Familiarity and trust takes time; it's a bit of a jump start, but it is what it is; not ideal but could be worse. I hope any one project with n people could accommodate x people who are willing but can't contribute property grade finances. Even then it will depend on the property in question, but I would hope.

Ewan was right first time when he said that we are creatures who collaborate well. The less in common I have with brainwashed friends (I still care about them), the more in common I feel with strangers like you lot. The sensation is like we're in Invasion of the Body Snatchers, and boy am I glad to have a conversation with a real person. The warmth I feel now talking to a complete stranger (with a similar point of view). James Delingpole was talking about this recently, I'm pretty much quoting his words.

[Sunny-side-up]

Even a small suite of rooms would be out of my price range unfortunately, especially when my car's finally fixed (hopefully on) Friday after a very complicated repair... but you'd need a cleaner for a place that size, I'd be happy to work with accommodation included!
In the same boat Brigantia :(

It a great idea for those members of Avalon who could do this.
It like a seed bank of safety for like minded alts, a great thing yes.
Maybe if the POOP really hits the fan, well maybe we of lesser means could find safety there as well, until things get better, if only just camping out in the grounds :)
That's an idea as well, combine.
:sun:

Makes me feel happy thinking there could be pockets of happy safe Avalonians far from the maddening crowds

[Brigantia]

if only just camping out in the grounds :)

Oh now, posh yurts - I did a yoga class once in one, it was lovely! I'd go for that but the spouse and the cat might take some convincing...

[Johan (Keyholder)]

Good comments and all very true and valid.

A month ago I was on the "verge" of doing just that, I did find a place that was exactly as we talk about here. It could have accommodated many Avalonians (as well as other like-minded people). Not a "castle", but definitely something we could have turned into a "Castle Avalon", in time.

I even paid a deposit... and then... I got GAZUMPED! I was told (by my solicitor) that this almost never happens, maybe in 1 or 2% of property sales.
It could have been the ideal place (it already was an eco-retreat for 25+ years). What saddened me, is that people that have been for so long in an activity of ecology and organic food, alternative workshops (even pottery and cob building!) can have such an unethical attitude and behavior. Over here in Belgium it would have been illegal...

But well, maybe somewhere else then.

[Sunny-side-up]

if only just camping out in the grounds :)

Oh now, posh yurts - I did a yoga class once in one, it was lovely! I'd go for that but the spouse and the cat might take some convincing...

or:
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03eV8Yc3pzNzJYrKUUbhmNTPB0yOA:1623186227988&q=tiny+houses&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjh2pf094jxAhWGC8AKHdunBd8Q7xYoAHoFCAEQngI&biw=1632&bih=891

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdp_sp4gJjU

[Matthew]

Good comments and all very true and valid.

A month ago I was on the "verge" of doing just that, I did find a place that was exactly as we talk about here. It could have accommodated many Avalonians (as well as other like-minded people). Not a "castle", but definitely something we could have turned into a "Castle Avalon", in time.

I even paid a deposit... and then... I got GAZUMPED! I was told (by my solicitor) that this almost never happens, maybe in 1 or 2% of property sales.
It could have been the ideal place (it already was an eco-retreat for 25+ years). What saddened me, is that people that have been for so long in an activity of ecology and organic food, alternative workshops (even pottery and cob building!) can have such an unethical attitude and behavior. Over here in Belgium it would have been illegal...

But well, maybe somewhere else then.

Come to the UK so we can steal your powers; impressive that you got that far, too bad it didn't go through that time.

[I should cocoa]

Hi Ewan,

just wanted to give you a thumbs up for the thread as coincidentally, it was an idea I'd mooted on a UK "ringing cedars" website maybe 12 or 13 years ago as a way to set up a community of like minded people living happily(hopefully!!) together, with common goals and interests, where we'd be sharing the workload and upkeep etc., along with growing our own fruit/veg and trying to be as self-sufficient as possible. It definitely has possibilities of working and with some of the stunning properties you've shown, you could probably have say 20 people as stakeholders which brings the initial investment down even further.
Ha, at the time there were only one or two people who thought it might be viable option, so it never went beyond the wistful dreaming stage, but in the present climate a (vaccine-free?) Castle Avalon, as it's been aptly dubbed, seems like the kind of haven we could all use to escape far from the madding crowd.
In saying that I did do some volunteering/wwoofing around Scotland about 5 years ago and at on point stayed in a large shared communal Victorian house with 7 acres including huge walled kitchen garden for a couple of weeks. There were lots of great people with many various skillsets(DIY/Plumbing/Electrics/Veg growing/Cooking/Accounting/Cleaning etc) where they had a rota work timetable, so nearly everyone had the chance to try/do other jobs around the place though obviously some specialists stayed in their own sections most of the time. They also laid on alternative therapy courses there, invited speakers and much more besides to sustain themselves, though the house and land wasn't owned by any of them, but rather a trust who allowed them to be custodians of it(I think!).
They did receive some grants and raised the rest of the money they needed to keep it running yearly, themselves. It was a wonderful set up and full of people whose skills and personalities and visions dovetailed together so well and you really felt part of a big family the moment you entered there. Unfortunately, last year they lost some grant or funding they'd been promised and the place literally closed down and was put on the market within a few months as they couldn't keep going. It was really sad to see and I've no idea where the people who were there at that time moved to.
Anyway, I don't at all want to be the voice of doom and gloom, but I would say that with any of those beautiful big houses/mansions, they need a lot of money for their upkeep and repair, never mind the day to day running side, so you do need a good business model of some sort that can tick things over in the long term......A vaccine free b'n'b maybe?? Just kidding.
But, I really hope your idea gains some traction, as it's certainly an appealing possibility in trying to find an out from the current restrictions.....Plus, imagine the fabulous library we'd have there if we all pooled our alternate book collections. Good luck with the dream Ewan!

[Justplain]

I already have a retreat. From that experience I would suggest buying a piece of undervalued land that can be gardened and can supply water, atleast if a well is dug. Where mine is we have really an unlimited supply of wood, so one would need to see about heating source if in a temperate or cold clime. Assuming enough money is available, I would then buy a prefab dwelling, or a dwelling kit that can be erected manually. If the land was big enough you could lease out subsections of the land for others of a like mind. I don't think I'd risk doing a joint venture with others since property management is such a tricky/risky affair.

I'm not sure if that suggestion works in a place like the UK where land is scarce, so, for what it's worth.

[Matthew]

I'm not really into the idea of too big a community myself, but combining with one or two others financially you get significantly more options. The smaller the group, the fewer the woes and familiarity is typically key, but in the absence of that well, time will tell. It's all about the networking at the moment. Ultimately the best model imho is a decentralised one. The idea I talked to my brother about had us looking at land with at least two properties, which would be one each. Doesn't have to be fancy. Slightly tricky to sell on if we wanted to part ways, but not impossible.

This is very much a fantasy land thread though, and it's good fun talking about this stuff. The castle in the opening post is good, well worth the daydream.

[onawah]

There is a whole thread about tiny houses starting here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?36575-Tiny-Houses&highlight=tiny+house
Some discussion there, though if you want to see more videos of actual tiny houses, probably better to start at the end of the thread.
Ecologically sustainable and self-sustaining communities are sure to be more on people's minds as land grabs, food shortages, grid problems, etc. may continue to accelerate if the NWO continues to unfold its nefarious plans.
Tiny house communities are springing up all over. :flower:
I would think there would be fewer headaches with the latter than with the kind of maintenance old castles would require (though less picturesque, of course).






if only just camping out in the grounds :)

Oh now, posh yurts - I did a yoga class once in one, it was lovely! I'd go for that but the spouse and the cat might take some convincing...

[

[LoneWolf76]

Been trying to get something like this off the ground all year. Seems to be very difficult in the UK, although I know a few who've done it. Rachel Elnaugh from Dragon's Den has been instrumental in helping kickstart a few around the UK.
Still working on it though, gotta have the right people first, the rest will follow.

[Forever]

The subject of this thread is on a lot of people’s mind right now. Only yesterday my sent me a this link to a handbook recently, written for those wanting to set up their own smaller community. Full disclosure: I have not purchased this book myself so cannot comment on it’s contents but thought it appropriate to this thread. https://gettogether.world/

[Did You See Them]

Gets my vote !

[Bubu]

Nice idea Ewan, If only we can afford to travel to meet and live with like minded people. I use to travel on workaways, capitalizing on my handyman skills. I now have a 2.4 hectare place on the mountains to keep me away from all the madness in the city. Still looking for like minded people. People who's willing to live off grid and eventually without money. Just finished tinkering with my first fully automatic egg incubator. Baby ducks soon :)

[Brigantia]

Been trying to get something like this off the ground all year. Seems to be very difficult in the UK, although I know a few who've done it. Rachel Elnaugh from Dragon's Den has been instrumental in helping kickstart a few around the UK.
Still working on it though, gotta have the right people first, the rest will follow.

I think that it's England that's the problem as planning laws are very strict; you need planning permission to live permanently in a caravan, any other type of mobile home or what is classed as a 'temporary' home (such as a log cabin) and that is very rarely granted. They want people in houses and only gypsy/Romany communities have special status on this. I know that in Wales you have the right to live in a caravan on your own land or with the landowner's permission. The situation in Scotland looks complicated, I'm not yet fully awake to plough through this (https://www.gov.scot/publications/residential-mobile-homes-scotland/pages/4/).

Anyone remember the New Age travellers in the 1980s, and the Battle of the Beanfield? That just shows you the contempt that the authorities have for alternative lifestyles.

There is a longstanding community in west Wales called Tipi Valley, founded in 1975 that had to apply for retrospective permission for the site; the Welsh authorities finally granted it, the (London-based) government ministers kept trying to overturn the decision but failed. Here's their website: https://www.diggersanddreamers.org.uk/community/tipi-valley/

[Ewan]

Thank you for all the responses.

It did occur to me today that such a venture would be fraught with potential difficulties. Should just one person decide they had made a mistake and want out it could break the whole scheme. However legal means could be put in place to make that an unpalatable decision, the obvious negative to that path would make the scheme a less attractive one in the first place - if you know your investment looks a lot like a one-way street.

Falling out with other people is the biggest risk to any such venture. Bill can correct me if I am wrong but I am sure the same thing happened to him when first settling in Ecuador. Bill?

I also never considered maintenance in my initial excitement at the idea. Some form of income would be necessary in order to cover ongoing maintenance and, ideally, all bills such as tax, power and water. A glamping site as far away as possible from the main building might be a solution but not necessarily an attractive one.

An alternative to a castle might be an old farm with over 100 acres. Provided planning permissions can be gained then building homes (https://www.borgtimberhouse.co.uk/home-designs/tunturi/26-home/home-designs/tunturi/110-tunturi-110) is a cheaper solution and each individual property can be sold separately to preserve the security of the venture.

https://i.imgur.com/pb79Ki1.jpg

This particular example, pictured, would only be considered a summer home, but the websites states that by by widening and heightening the structure it can qualify as a permanent dwelling.

If you have farmland you can grow things (and we have a heck of a knowledge base here on Avalon to guide us on things we don't already know collectively), you can sell excess produce, have a farm shop etc. All organic. There would be plenty hands on deck to do the work and may serve to win that elusive planning permissions - your business needs workers and the workers need accommodations.

Also with farmland and space you have the option of more privacy, in a castle there is more chance of feeling on top of each other. That said, the size of those rooms in a castle could easily be converted into fairly private apartments.

Ideal property would likely contain some woodland and river frontage with fishing rights.

[Mypos]

Excellent ideas Ewan!

But how about this place... in nature, at the seaside, paradise (still even now I think)... and just a bit less expensive.
And yes, it IS for sale! Harder to travel there though. But once there, you can swim with...WHALES!

I was there before it was created (1985, 1990 and 2005), a fabulous place and friendly people.

Have a look... especially the videos too!

https://www.serenitybeaches.com/

This is a really interesting topic. Im also looking into community living on the land. I have set out multiple fishing lines in my country. I used to feel really bound to the Netherlands but this is fading in very quick tempo. Mainly because my relationship with most of my family and mainstream friends is deteriorating in very quick fashion because of everything thats happening.

P.S. This castle must be haunted if you can buy it for 1.5 mil. ;)

[onawah]

Foundation for Intentional Community is an international coalition of intentional communities, and is a great resource as well for people wanting to start one.
See: https://www.ic.org/directory/

[Ewan]

We could also all go and join Bill in Ecuador.

(Imagines Bill putting his head in his hands and muttering, 'No, please no!')

39-acres (https://www.escapeartist.com/realestate/properties/now-available-39-acres-charming-remodeled-home-much/)

https://www.escapeartist.com/realestate/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/new-cumbe-house-from-road-1000x623.jpg

13.5 acres (https://www.escapeartist.com/realestate/properties/multi-use-farm-with-development-potential/)

https://www.escapeartist.com/realestate/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IMG_4754-1000x623.jpeg

23.5 acres (https://www.escapeartist.com/realestate/properties/off-grid-dream-home-just-outside-cuenca/)

https://www.escapeartist.com/realestate/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_2383.jpg

Caveat/Small Print
Please note: In each location above the main property belongs to the finder, namely ME, Ewan. Parcels of land 2-3 acres in area can be purchased for a mere $50k-65k!

:Party::sun:

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Excellent ideas Ewan!

But how about this place... in nature, at the seaside, paradise (still even now I think)... and just a bit less expensive.
And yes, it IS for sale! Harder to travel there though. But once there, you can swim with...WHALES!

I was there before it was created (1985, 1990 and 2005), a fabulous place and friendly people.

Have a look... especially the videos too!

https://www.serenitybeaches.com/

This is a really interesting topic. Im also looking into community living on the land. I have set out multiple fishing lines in my country. I used to feel really bound to the Netherlands but this is fading in very quick tempo. Mainly because my relationship with most of my family and mainstream friends is deteriorating in very quick fashion because of everything thats happening.

P.S. This castle must be haunted if you can buy it for 1.5 mil. ;)

No problem, Brigantia is going to be the cleaner. She will cast it out in double quick fashion. :)

[EarthGirl]

Maybe let's go back to basics, you already live in a community right? You already live in a 'property' ... This doesn't have to be large scaled to work. Everywhere has it's good and it's bad, choose what you would like to focus on... Starting small and sustainable is the key. Sometimes it just takes a 'warrior' who knows where this is all going to get things started.

Do you know your neighbours? (this isn't inferred at anyone here, just a generalisation) if not why not. Just saying hello sometimes and offering a 'cuppa' is the start. The wild haired fouled mouthed 'one' might be a 'lamb' once they get talking they just needed a kind person to converse with... A generalisation I know , but sometimes being brave enough to confront the unknown is all it takes. x

[Bubu]

One pitfalls for the succes of intentional communities is having focus on "legalities" Not saying that we don't consider it, what I am saying is that to have the least possible attention to it. Keep the government and its damn laws out of your community as much as you could. And let the laws of nature, the laws of the heart govern your community. If you want a community that care for each member, go out there and take care of everyone in your community. Its a lot more efficient to teach people by example rather than words. "Be the change you wanted to see"

[Bill Ryan]

Falling out with other people is the biggest risk to any such venture. Bill can correct me if I am wrong but I am sure the same thing happened to him when first settling in Ecuador. Bill?Yes, I'd agree that's absolutely the biggest risk. And yes, this is exactly what happened here in Ecuador quite a few years back.

[Brigantia]

P.S. This castle must be haunted if you can buy it for 1.5 mil. ;)


No problem, Brigantia is going to be the cleaner. She will cast it out in double quick fashion. :)

I'll set the cat on it - she's so feral and fierce that it'll go and haunt somewhere else.
:cat:

[Mike Gorman]

This has been on my mind a lot recently, the idea of a remote-ish community in a characterful location, where people can contribute their life-skills and trades/professional chops e.t.c
There are an amazing number of huge properties out there, abandonned in some cases through the attrition of family lines reaching their natural end (all kinds of reasons, but it happens)
and deceased estates which are never claimed...all kinds!
If people can combine financial resources entire colonies of like-minded folks could do this, and those without substantial finances can offer other qualities, and skill-sets. This could be an answer to quietly disappear to escape the insanity and oppressive social orders being manifested: this could lead to new forms of feudal/tenant societies(!) WARFARE with the billionaire communities(!)
But in the short term, it could be a good solution.

[Brigantia]

There are an amazing number of huge properties out there, abandonned in some cases through the attrition of family lines reaching their natural end (all kinds of reasons, but it happens)
and deceased estates which are never claimed...all kinds!

That would never happen in England sadly as there is so much land pressure; though a couple of years ago the council in Liverpool were offering houses in a street for £1000 if the buyer would make the necessary improvements, but that was very much an exception.

One thing that I heard about was 1 euro houses in Italy in certain municipalities. From the time I spent there I learned that Italians don't want old properties, they will even have a house built rather than buy an old one. In fact they have a horror of anything secondhand, an attitude that probably comes from the dire poverty experienced by many until the economic boom of the 1960s. They equate used stuff with poverty.

So, there are many old properties lying empty in Italy.

Here's a website with links to Italian 1 euro houses, and also links to some in France and Croatia. One thing I would warn anyone is that Italian bureaucracy is a nightmare, though you can often find expats who will guide you through the maze.
https://1eurohouses.com

[I am B]

South of spain has some DEALS. And theres many people around there who are preety much autonomous already. (they grow their own fruits and veggies, kill their own porks as a town tradition...)
Low law pressure, low taxes, prices for stuff are a joke...

The province of Huelva, sierra de aracena, and places around it.

Obviously not castles, but they have most of what you need to live, and plenty of sun, water and land.

Check it out!



https://www.milanuncios.com/venta-de-fincas-en-aracena-huelva/camino-cortelazor-45094048.htm

https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/84938943/

https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/90743016/

And this was on first glance, I'm sure cheaper and "loster" ones can be found ^^

[pueblo]

The properties posted by I am B look so good! but if you don't like the heat then Russia is offering a free hectare in Siberia to anyone who can last 5 years there!


Law on the Far Eastern Hectare
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Law on the Far Eastern Hectare, or the Federal Law of May 1, 2016, No. 119 FL,[1] is a law by Russian President Vladimir Putin to give 1 hectare, or 2.5 acres of free land in the Russian Far East to Russian citizens and foreign nationals as long as they live there for five years.[2][3]

According to some observers, more Ukrainians and Belarusians will settle in Siberia than Russians themselves. However, the plan only allows Russian Citizens to own the land. Foreigners can join the program, but cannot own the land until 5 years after they have immigrated to Russia- in order to dissuade drug traffickers from abusing the program. Consolidated groups (of 20 lots minimum) will also be provided with basic infrastructure. [4] Despite restrictions on foreigners owning land, Old Believers from abroad have successfully applied in groups for farming space. As of December 2017, more than 107,000 people have applied and 40,000 people have become owners of the land.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_on_the_Far_Eastern_Hectare

https://i2.wp.com/www.russia-briefing.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/30-mln-rossiyan-560-4285386-300x159.jpg?resize=300%2C159

[Ewan]

South of spain has some DEALS. And theres many people around there who are preety much autonomous already. (they grow their own fruits and veggies, kill their own porks as a town tradition...)
Low law pressure, low taxes, prices for stuff are a joke...

The province of Huelva, sierra de aracena, and places around it.

Obviously not castles, but they have most of what you need to live, and plenty of sun, water and land.

Check it out!



https://www.milanuncios.com/venta-de-fincas-en-aracena-huelva/camino-cortelazor-45094048.htm

https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/84938943/

https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/90743016/

And this was on first glance, I'm sure cheaper and "loster" ones can be found ^^

I was looking at rural properties in Spain but discovered, since the Brits Brexit'd, we are only allowed to live in Spain for 6 months in a year. There are probably ways around it. 'Loster', I like that word, exactly what many of us are seeking I suspect.

[kfm27917]

the book can be downloaded free at
https://ca1lib.org/book/5321142/b6b12d

[palehorse]

Many communities failed for various reason, ownership is one of the reasons, when money and ideals get in the way, people change, I know one case where the title deed was in the name of 1 person and the rest of the group raised an eye brown because they shared the money in order to purchase the property. The simple solution for that is to incorporate the real state and each person have a number of shares in accordance with their financial contribution or based on some other criteria, I heard one case in Australia and another in Paraguay, it may or may not be the correct way to deal with that, anyway the land must be registered in the land office and duties must be paid yearly in order to keep it "legal", there is no escape to that, unless the place is totally isolated with no road access, not in the books of the land registrar, just wild or public land would fall into that category (national parks for example).

In my humble opinion there is some ways of build a community legally minimizing troubles:

- One way would be to incorporate with shareholders, this way everyone knows who own what.
- The other way would be also to incorporate but instead of shareholders, the owner just lease the plot to the community member, leases can go up to 90 years in some countries, I believe these laws are very similar in all countries, the leasees would have the right to build on the surface of that land and use the land as s/he wish. The corporate owner owns only the land and nothing else. Mobile homes come to mind, those modern dome tents, or coodo style (https://www.coodo.com/) or anything actually even those amazing cob houses.

In both cases need to be incorporated and have risks of dissolution and must be overthink in order to mitigate as much problems as possible when getting involved in such a thing.

My personal experience: I took the solo way, me and my family we have a piece of land we bought about a decade ago, we have been working on it sometimes (we go slow on our own time), it is not a community in the real sense, it is not incorporated as a company, it is just a personal property, but it is off grid (no public water or electricity, closest town is about 45km), we do have a local village which is some sort of community, but each and every one has its own land in their own names, some of them uses the land for generations and never bothered to register it properly (I don't know if it will be an issue in the future or not, the world is changing fast and new tyranic laws popping up every day), but they are there for a long time and hardly anyone will mess with them I believe. What I mean by that is: there is always ways around, and sometimes better to be on your own doing things.

Obviously some common rules (no rulers, no bosses, no madman), would have to be created and an open assembly to discuss the issues periodically must be stabelished as soon the community even started, evebody should have the right to vote and give their opinions, no ranks, no bull****, no hierarchy, just the anarch way of solving problems fits much better for communities than anything else, after all, people joining such a community has the sense how freedom works, we are talking about people with a higher level of conciousness, and it would be easy to spot crooks trying to "infiltrate" for whatever reason.

I do believe in community and I would join one, no doubt, but all the legalities must be clear in the title or contract, there is scammers out there.

[Bubu]

perhaps we can learn a thing or two from the Hippie communes. They all seem to thrive at first and then they die off. One thing that I am aware off is that the TPTB dont like anything outside of their control. "Sabotage" is something we have to look into. We have to learn to safeguard our community from it.

This seem to be the case for this hippie commune and many other


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXDuZe2V7ks

[Johan (Keyholder)]

Creating a community as proposed is a good idea. Yet, there are many "pitfalls", some have been highlighted here already.

While it is not so easy to decide on joining a community, whether a PA one or another one, I thought that it would be a good idea to "start smaller", meaning organize get-togethers for a week or so in different locations. Affordable and for PA-members. On August 13th 2019 I made even a thread about it. 1 (one) person found it a very good idea. I never got any reactions why this was not possible to realise (it was not expensive, it could be done just about anywhere, and it would bring us together). And maybe, just maybe, it would create opportunities to brainstorm about the potential of a PA-community.

A copy of what I wrote, below (it was, then, in the Members Only section):

Gatherings for Avalonians.

PA is like an oasis in a world that gets more complex every day and for many if not most of us to survive in this type of world takes courage and perseverance, in every possible domain. We are lucky to have a place like PA is now, today.

But where will it be tomorrow, in three months or a few years?

There are so many threads on the forum about what may/could happen with freedom of speech, information,… and the censoring of the internet. It may be just a matter of time. There is the whole discussion about copyright versus accessible information. There is GDPR. And lots of other issues that come into play.

That is the way it looks like, to me at least. Hopefully we have many years coming, in which we can get easily to ‘this oasis’.

But as Caliban wrote in a post 5 days ago:

Quote ” It also has an inherent limit -- it's in our minds, or the cloud, or whatever. What it's not is Face-to-Face. Either we get together, as the Occupy crowd did--which by the way was not left or right or gender this or that--or nothing's really going to happen. Something has to break the ice where we start gathering together again. We need a carnival atmosphere, parties, potlatches, something like that. Get off the machines and listen and look at each other. Maybe something like that could catch fire. Where we start to forget these people and structures even exist.”
That was in Christian’s thread about the “Information Wars” (please read it as background info if you have the time).

It, being the internet. And I think Caliban is right. We best can prepare for a time where the internet is either way more limited (not as “free” as now) or not available anymore to most of us.

So, where carnival atmosphere and parties can be fun, it is the Face-to-Face, the physical gatherings (like the one in Laughlin earlier this year, next month a smaller one in Malta, the proposed one in Ecuador…) that we should think about.

I do realize that there are for many of us “constraints”. Maybe money (very often the case), time (also quite often so), responsibilities towards family, job, and others. Maybe health-issues can prohibit some. Or the impossibility to get a visa. There are other reasons as well.

But for those amongst us that càn make an effort, I would plea to get an initiative started. And I will give an example below, of what may be possible.

What should be the requirements for an optimal place to get together?

Example for EUROPE

Airport nearby that can be reached from a large number of (international) cities.
In or as close to nature as possible.
Quiet surroundings.
Enough rooms for 8-16 people (or more), possibly 2 sharing a room.
Not too far away from a major airport (1.5-2 hours max).
Easy to reach (car, public transport….)
Enough facilities: kitchen, large room(s) for meetings,…
Total cost per person (for a week) between 300 € and 350 €, this is including a return flight, food (3 meals), room and facilities, local transport (only thing not included would be personal spending money).

Feel free to add, what is your idea? What should be added?

How could this be achieved? It could be organized in almost any country in Europe (later on, elsewhere in the world too, but that may be more costly). Europe is cost-effective, because one can fly return from almost every country to any other country for under 50-100 Euro return. This way I have taken flights to Dublin, London Stanstead, Rome, Venice and Torino (Italy), Carcassonne and Nice (France), Riga (Latvia), Stockholm, Barcelona, Chania and Thessaloniki (Greece), Krakow (Poland), Budapest (Hungary) and I could go on. All from Brussels. This can be done from (almost) “anywhere” to “anywhere”, provided one books ahead of time and flying in midweek (Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday).

A practical example. Staying 7 nights, Tuesday October 15th-Tuesday October 22nd, here:

http://www.ferme-chateau-laneffe.com...gites/?lang=en

This place is about half an hour drive away from Brussels-Charleroi airport. There are several combinations (gites) possible and for a week, the cost would be approximately 120 € per person (depending on how many people being there ànd sharing of a room).
Possible activities in the area: hiking, horseback riding, biking, kayaking, visiting an artisanal brewery, chocolate making place, heritage sites visits, carting, and more.

Food: 70 € p.p. for the week, having three good meals a day.

Sharing of transportation: 50 € p.p. for the week (can include pick-up from the airport and some visits by car). I can use my own car plus one or two rental cars would be needed.

Return flight with Ryanair: example from Barcelona Girona to Brussels Charleroi leaving Oct 15th at 6.25 and return leaving Brussels Charleroi to Barcelona Girona on Oct 22nd at 8.50 for under 30 € (traveling light, additional luggage is rather expensive with Ryanair).

Many other similar routes are possible. While 30 € for a return flight is very low indeed, 60-80 € is more realistic, but it depends when it is booked too.

Next year March, April or May is probably more realistic then mid-October this year. It could be done though. If at least 8 Avalonians would like to go ahead for second half of October, I will organize it. Otherwise, later on.

This way, the total cost for the week would be around 320 €, which I think most of us can afford.

Besides the campfire, walks in nature, good chats, getting to know fellow Avalonians, … this type of get-togethers would also offer ways to explore what we all can do in a practical way to make PA grow beyond “the internet”. Anything can be possible if we put our minds (and hearts) in it. Totally open for suggestions and discussions.

Other venues that can be considered for such weeks (just a few ideas):

Crete (Greece)
Carcassonne area/Cathar country (France)
Canary Islands (Spain)
Malta
Algarve (Portugal)
Transylvania (Romania)
Wicklow Mountains near Dublin (Ireland)
Scottish Highlands (Scotland/UK)
Zakopane (Poland)
Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania
Balaton Lake (Hungary)
And so many others….

While Europe is the easiest continent to organize this (cheap flights), it may be possible – given time – to organize this on other continents as well. But it may be more costly. Personally I think that North America and Australia/NZ may be more expensive and Latin America and Asia less expensive. But, you first have to get there of course. And transcontinental flights aren’t cheap.

It may be an idea for Avalonians from the USA/Australia/South Africa… to come over for 3-4 consecutive weeks (in Europe). Having a week in Crete, France, Ireland and Poland for instance. That would be around 1400 €. Add the return flight and maybe one could have a month in Europe, for under 2000 €. Just thinking out loud here. It’s still expensive but maybe doable for some.

Important! This is NOT a “business”, the idea is NOT to make any money of it (quite clear that at this price it would not be possible), but the idea is to create opportunities to get together in real life and work out a better future yet for PA, besides the forum on the internet. I checked that this type of initiative does not violate the forum rules. However, we may pay 20-30 € each (for the week) to put aside for – eventually – inviting Bill to come over and attend, paying all his costs. It would depend how often these gatherings would happen and how many would attend, to realize this.

We would need to know who is coming (identity), to make everything safe. Therefore I have put this idea in the “Members” section, but Mods, feel free to put it in another place on the forum. While spouse/partner could/would be welcome to come along, it is NOT the idea to organize “cheap vacations”. Of course a lot of fun and leisure time can be part of the week, but meeting fellow Avalonians ànd working on a potential future for PA IRL (“in real life”) should come first I think.


I am volunteering to organize the first gathering in Belgium, if enough people (I would say 8 at least) plan to attend. There is no real maximum.

Everything is open for discussion. I believe we all have personal strengths and talents and if and when we put these to good use within the PA-environment, a lot can be achieved.

[Bubu]

The most important aspect of intentional communities are the people. You got to have the right kind of people in it. I mean only angels can create heaven. We are in the process of creating a community and this thing comes at the very top of the list. This aspect is non negotiable. It does not matter if someone brings nothing or brings everything what matters is that "someone".

[xeon]

Current events are leading up to an inevitable future.

I think a better discussion topic for this forum might be how do we escape the mass vaccinations going on globally, where ever we may be, if that is even possible.

It's becoming very clear, they want to inject every single person in the world with their gene altering "vaccines" in line with their Transhumanism agenda. By the end of 2021, I believe vaccination will be mandatory worldwide. Already they have started mandatory vaccination in many places of the world like India, Philippines and Moscow, and putting strong pressure on the others. Eventually, it will be mandated everywhere. Time is running out.

By next month, it will be clear Covid-21 or the "Delta" version is going to be used as the excuse for a new wave and massive spikes in many countries, and they are now saying all the non mRNA vaccines are useless. Only Pfizer and Moderna will be accepted.

A place to stay might be well and good, but it has to be completely self sufficient and generate it's own energy, and water (and food). Or else, the authorities can cut them off. There is nothing to suggest they will leave the remaining "anti vaxxers" alone.

Life is going to be very hard, if you plan on refusing the jab.

[Bubu]

Already they have started mandatory vaccination in many places of the world like India, Philippines and Moscow, and putting strong pressure on the others. Eventually, it will be mandated everywhere. Time is running out.

By next month, it will be clear Covid-21 or the "Delta" version is going to be used as the excuse for a new wave and massive spikes in many countries, and they are now saying all the non mRNA vaccines are useless. Only Pfizer and Moderna will be accepted.

A place to stay might be well and good, but it has to be completely self sufficient and generate it's own energy, and water (and food). Or else, the authorities can cut them off. There is nothing to suggest they will leave the remaining "anti vaxxers" alone.

Life is going to be very hard, if you plan on refusing the jab.

there is no mandatory vaccine in the Philippines. sounds like disinfo and fear porn.

[Matthew]

>>there is no mandatory vaccine in the Philippines. sounds like disinfo and fear porn.

Not really disinformation though; it's just an opinion, and not a pleasant one but the signs are there (in the UK) that this is their intention. The hating on the unvaccinated in the UK press over previous few weeks for example; encouraging everyone to get vaccinated or face a social stigma. Might be different from country to country but I'm afraid I share xeon's PoV on this

[Bubu]

>>there is no mandatory vaccine in the Philippines. sounds like disinfo and fear porn.

Not really disinformation though; it's just an opinion, and not a pleasant one but the signs are there (in the UK) that this is their intention. The hating on the unvaccinated in the UK press over previous few weeks for example; encouraging everyone to get vaccinated or face a social stigma. Might be different from country to country but I'm afraid I share xeon's PoV on this

The signs are everywhere that they want to vaccinate everyone. All means are being implemented to force everyone into it. Everyone of us here knew that so I don't see the relevance of preaching to the choir. Saying something not true is disinfo or misinfo. Also the vaccinated will die a slow and painful death via sike protine that will slowly kill the body. Heck that's a lot more painful and and of course a lot more difficult than those who refuse the jab. It means saying that "Life is going to be very hard, if you plan on refusing the jab" is wrong because getting it is many folds difficult.

[Matthew]

One of the reasons I'm considering relocating to an isolated location is because I fully believe "Life is going to be very hard, if you plan on refusing the jab". I also believe life will be 'hard' for the vaccinated. But the fate of the vaccinated has nothing to do with the fate of the unvaccinated. In my world both statements are true, one doesn't take from the other; just because life might be hard for the vaccinated, makes no difference to how hard I believe it will be for the rest of us. I hope it doesn't pan out like that but no way can I put my hand on my heart and say anything other than "Life is going to be very hard, if you plan on refusing the jab"

[xeon]

Already they have started mandatory vaccination in many places of the world like India, Philippines and Moscow, and putting strong pressure on the others. Eventually, it will be mandated everywhere. Time is running out.

By next month, it will be clear Covid-21 or the "Delta" version is going to be used as the excuse for a new wave and massive spikes in many countries, and they are now saying all the non mRNA vaccines are useless. Only Pfizer and Moderna will be accepted.

A place to stay might be well and good, but it has to be completely self sufficient and generate it's own energy, and water (and food). Or else, the authorities can cut them off. There is nothing to suggest they will leave the remaining "anti vaxxers" alone.

Life is going to be very hard, if you plan on refusing the jab.

there is no mandatory vaccine in the Philippines. sounds like disinfo and fear porn.

It is looking that way, with the Philippines president Duterte warning of jail for those who refuse the jab?! In India, they are actually grabbing and holding down people while injecting them by force!

Last year in 2020, there was a "leaked" document I saw posted by someone which supposedly showed the "timeline" for 2021, and so far it has been quite accurate. The document showed March 2021 being the month when "Covid-21" would be "released". Didn't the Delta variant begin in India around March or April? Now it is (conveniently) showing up all over the world....

The document also showed increasing lockdowns from the summer months onwards. Ending with mandatory vaccination in November 2021.

The latest news I'm getting is this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/morgan-stanley-bars-unvaccinated-staff-clients-from-offices/

This is really alarming, if the banks are going to eventually bar unvaccinated people from entering their branches.

It's alright if you don't want to indulge in "fear porn", but I'm afraid it is not going to change the outcome, short of a global miracle. I've been following the Covid developments very closely and that is how it is going.....

Then again, if you only just consent to the jab, there won't be any further problems for you (or so they tell you). That is why I said, life will be very difficult, IF you really do not want their "vaccines"....

[Matthew]

Ok Bubu there is some wisdom you're sharing... that I think I've been missing; perhaps, it's that we can feel positive because we see the truth so we can adapt. I suppose, for me, right now, I feel pre-adapted, like, I'm not adapted yet. I'm still coming to terms with what's happening around me

[Bubu]

Ok Bubu there is some wisdom you're sharing... that I think I've been missing; perhaps, it's that we can feel positive because we see the truth so we can adapt. I suppose, for me, right now, I feel pre-adapted, like, I'm not adapted yet. I'm still coming to terms with what's happening around me

fear is the ingredient that separates us from our Godself and prevents us from seeing the obvious truth. Glad to be of help.

[Ewan]

On a related subject, surviving an economic collapse, or any kind of collapse that may be currently in the pipeline - such as planned food shortages! I've just found a stunning series on Amazon Prime. I am in the UK, so have no way of knowing if this could be viewed outside that region. I'm investigating a way to download and share but don't hold your breath.

It is simply called "Victorian Farm". It recreates life as a Victorian farmer with all the work involved. What stunned me was the realisation that prior to the industrial revolution the work on a farm must have been 100 fold harder. Compare that to today where modern tractor cabs look more like an aeroplane cockpit with computers onboard to handle all the work. Every aspect of modern farming is at least 10 times easier than Victorian times, which in itself was 20 - 100 times easier than prior to the introduction of machines. Life was effing tough in the old days. Modern humans with their 'looked after' lives and all the mod cons wouldn't last a year if it all disappears.

When machines, such as threshers, were first introduced the labourers, or 'no longer needed', literally invaded farms and destroyed machines. This also happened in other manufacturing industries such as weaving. I believe there is a story from Holland where workers dropped their wooden clogs into the loom - it gave rise to a phrase that is still used today but few realise where it comes from - and this particular individual cannot recall. (Note to self : you're a moron).

The people who will survive the best are those who have nothing already and are used to being creative in their survival techniques. The same people who, largely, have not been vaccinated. The third world countries will fare best in this mooted depopulation/new world order insanity, which does appear to be unfolding. The overlords will need an underclass, and an underclass grateful to be fed and spared will make a most useful workforce to replace the remnants of a shattered first world.

At least this series might gave you some idea on what to expect in a back to basics bug out. It is going to be hard, but hard can be stimulating; up to a point - the point being you're starving - cheerful sod, ain't I. :)

[Johan (Keyholder)]

"I believe there is a story from Holland where workers dropped their wooden clogs into the loom - it gave rise to a phrase that is still used today but few realise where it comes from"...

Not a story from Holland Ewan, but Belgium! ;)

It is related to a French word, one that everyone knows: SABOTAGE

The wooden clogs you mentioned are "sabots" (in French), hence sabotage. During the first "general strike" in 1886 in Liège, in the French part of Belgium, workers had dropped indeed their clogs ("klompen") in the machinerie, to "sabotage" the work and so to reinforce the strike.

Not a story many would know Ewan!

[Ewan]

"I believe there is a story from Holland where workers dropped their wooden clogs into the loom - it gave rise to a phrase that is still used today but few realise where it comes from"...

Not a story from Holland Ewan, but Belgium! ;)

It is related to a French word, one that everyone knows: SABOTAGE

The wooden clogs you mentioned are "sabots" (in French), hence sabotage. During the first "general strike" in 1886 in Liège, in the French part of Belgium, workers had dropped indeed their clogs ("klompen") in the machinerie, to "sabotage" the work and so to reinforce the strike.

Not a story many would know Ewan!

That's it! Thank you Johan, I do wonder about my personal memory device sometimes. Soon as I saw the word Sabotage it came back to me. :)

----

Pertinent to this thread I just missed out on a 4 bedroom cottage with attached annexe and 6 acres of land, only about half the land could have been used but there were already two large polytunnels on the property and it certainly had the potential to be self-sufficient. I bid 16% over the Home Valuation Report but apparently got nowhere near the succesful offer according to feedback from the Scottish lawyer who submitted my offer.

https://www.galbraithgroup.com/media/property/ckdrps-AYR190015_R/images/Image-0_1623077981.jpg

The land is in the foreground with a burn running through it. It was only 5 miles away from quite a large town yet still quite remote.

[Ewan]

I feel a little bit deflated that nobody approached me and said 'Right, let's go for this', for I genuinely feel we may be running out of time. Whilst I can find an acre or so on my own to retreat to it will be hard alone, I'm a pretty good handyman and can build simple structures. mend broken wires, fix a leak, there are limits to what I am capable of.

So here's a new ad for fellow travellers into a great unknown.

This place needs work, I'm going to guess at £250.000 max - well I have 250k to spend (with 50k in reserve) ((That's my cards on the table then)). Three others with similar finances and the place is ours. Scottish properties are selling for 10-15% over market value (I know this because I have missed out on two properties in the last month) so a bid of £750,000 may well win the day, leaving £250,000 for work needing done.

You will note there are two other properties that come with this sale, so fellow Avalonians could come and join us from time to time and add their wisdom and skills to whatever project we have going.

As I said earlier in the thread, it would be like living in an apartment block. In this case four floors equal four apartments. All self-contained and private. Outside is the village green where we work alongside in polytunnels and, well, whatever needs doing.

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/42k/41048/109796708/41048_EDN012188851_IMG_01_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/42k/41048/109796708/41048_EDN012188851_IMG_00_0000.jpeg


https://player.vimeo.com/video/547552958

Quite honestly each floor could be two apartments, so many more could join.

You form a Trust, each trustee pays in 'X'. The Trust buys the property then....

I don't know, finish the story for me.

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/42k/41048/109796708/41048_EDN012188851_IMG_30_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/42k/41048/109796708/41048_EDN012188851_IMG_18_0000.jpeg

The Place (https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109796708#/)

[Matthew]

Ok that is amazing. I've asked a friend in the industry to look at the property link, and asked their opinion. They might be too busy atm, but I can ask again if I don't hear anything

[Brigantia]

Ooohhh, lovely - we stayed in Inveraray just up the road a few years ago, it's absolutely stunning around there.

There's no way I could chip in though especially with the car being the money pit that it has been this year.

Unless you still need a cleaner... :)

[Ewan]

Ooohhh, lovely - we stayed in Inveraray just up the road a few years ago, it's absolutely stunning around there.

There's no way I could chip in though especially with the car being the money pit that it has been this year.

Unless you still need a cleaner... :)

You'll be welcome anytime.. with mop or without. :)

[Sérénité]

Hypothetical situation. Ten stakeholders put together the money to buy a place.
What's the chance we all manage to get along without schisms and fractures?

The way I see it it would be like living in an apartment block, you know your neighbours, you say hallo, occasionally you have a barbecue together or similar. Everyone needs their own boundaries and no-one is obliged to take part in any social gatherings.

On the plus side, with ten stakeholders from Project Avalon there is an awful lot of common agreement, but sure you can pick a fight if you focus on differing opinions.

Here is a couple of examples.

Orchardton Castle

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/107905673#/

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/236k/235847/107905673/235847_103479000761_IMG_00_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/236k/235847/107905673/235847_103479000761_IMG_02_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/236k/235847/107905673/235847_103479000761_IMG_04_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/236k/235847/107905673/235847_103479000761_IMG_21_0000.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/qtk7YFV.png

https://i.imgur.com/9JlG1DU.png

https://i.imgur.com/0IGVoKn.png

https://i.imgur.com/BKBQCNT.png

Bargany House, Ayrshire

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/102572771#/

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/48605/102572771/48605_GLS200136_IMG_00_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/48605/102572771/48605_GLS200136_IMG_01_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/48605/102572771/48605_GLS200136_IMG_17_0000.jpeg

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/48605/102572771/48605_GLS200136_IMG_18_0000.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/9CNexN4.png

https://i.imgur.com/urKLXEV.png

Yay to Orchardton Castle for me...but could I just live in the grounds with the lake view in a little cabin please? 😊
Joking aside I think this sort of idea is the future.

A friend of mine is obsessed with the tiny home idea. A commune on land with similar properties where everyone brought their skills to live in harmony with nature. It sounds idyllic. But there’s part of me thinks you only need one bad egg to arrive, with over riding alpha male (or female) tendencies and the whole dynamics falls apart.

I’ve given myself till December to see how things are looking and developing and if things haven’t started to improve drastically, I’m definitely selling up and off to somewhere more remote.

I’m totally on board to come help decorate though, it’s a great idea!

[Ewan]

Stumbled upon a place in Herefordshire which obviously sprang forth from an initial idea very similar to the one discussed in this thread.

https://www.canonfromecourt.org.uk/

Welcome to Canon Frome Court, a farming cooperative and intentional community in the Herefordshire countryside.

[safara]

"I believe there is a story from Holland where workers dropped their wooden clogs into the loom - it gave rise to a phrase that is still used today but few realise where it comes from"...

Not a story from Holland Ewan, but Belgium! ;)

It is related to a French word, one that everyone knows: SABOTAGE

The wooden clogs you mentioned are "sabots" (in French), hence sabotage. During the first "general strike" in 1886 in Liège, in the French part of Belgium, workers had dropped indeed their clogs ("klompen") in the machinerie, to "sabotage" the work and so to reinforce the strike.

Not a story many would know Ewan!

That's it! Thank you Johan, I do wonder about my personal memory device sometimes. Soon as I saw the word Sabotage it came back to me. :)

----

Pertinent to this thread I just missed out on a 4 bedroom cottage with attached annexe and 6 acres of land, only about half the land could have been used but there were already two large polytunnels on the property and it certainly had the potential to be self-sufficient. I bid 16% over the Home Valuation Report but apparently got nowhere near the succesful offer according to feedback from the Scottish lawyer who submitted my offer.

https://www.galbraithgroup.com/media/property/ckdrps-AYR190015_R/images/Image-0_1623077981.jpg

The land is in the foreground with a burn running through it. It was only 5 miles away from quite a large town yet still quite remote.

Ha! I saw this place in my trawling through Rightmove and it tickled my wotsits as well!!

[LoneWolf76]

There are so many people in the UK and elsewhere trying to do this right now, and we've been involved in a few groups.
One friend of ours started a community in Scotland, but it didn't feel right for us. Was all done in a bit of a panic, and now, because the people weren't vetted, it's all unravelling...

[Ewan]

So now I am reduced to looking at plots of land with outline planning permission, there is a 4.5 acre plot about 31m north north west of Aberdeen which I am hoping to go and view one day next week. I suspect £80k could secure it.

Note Aberdeen is quite far north in the UK so I would be in a great position to observe the onset of a mini ice age before someone in, say, Cornwall.

As I pondered the difficulties many people face with various planning authorities I found a blog from a few years back from a guy who had already traversed that particular journey from start to finish.

If you really do have an interest in the idea of buying a plot and building your own home I'd urge you to read it, the further you get into his adventure the funnier he becomes and the more tragic the tale gets. (Maybe 30 minutes of your time, absolute max).

The Journey (http://www.stevecarter.com/build/build.htm)

Does it put me off? Absolutely!

Will it stop me? Probably not!

[Ewan]

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/27k/26208/110627672/26208_STR210051_IMG_02_0000.jpeg

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/110627672#/

Now that's off-grid! Main access via boat though can be approached via forestry road and a 1/2 mile walk.

Lots of pine tea and fish in the diet I suspect. :)

[Brigantia]

So now I am reduced to looking at plots of land with outline planning permission, there is a 4.5 acre plot about 31m north north west of Aberdeen which I am hoping to go and view one day next week.

That's a bit close to my in-laws...

:behindsofa:

Just kidding; great people in north-east Scotland.

[Sérénité]

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/27k/26208/110627672/26208_STR210051_IMG_02_0000.jpeg

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/110627672#/

Now that's off-grid! Main access via boat though can be approached via forestry road and a 1/2 mile walk.

Lots of pine tea and fish in the diet I suspect. :)

This is amazing Ewan! Are you going for it?

I’ve been looking at Wales, hadn’t really considered Scotland. But that view! I may have to reconsider!

I’ve been looking for old dilapidated places, on a bit of land. I figure if there’s something there already then planning to renew shouldn’t be an issue so long as it’s not listed.

Have you thought about the kit home option?
Saves the hassle of building and unreliable trades, more so when you’re in the back of beyond. They work out cheaper than a self build too usually :)

Prices start from £124,000;

https://www.dan-wood.co.uk/en/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI38-t9pH88QIVgrHtCh1P8AheEAAYASAAEgJxRfD_BwE

https://www.the-nhouse.com/kit-homes/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI38-t9pH88QIVgrHtCh1P8AheEAAYBCAAEgIW8vD_BwE

[Ewan]

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/27k/26208/110627672/26208_STR210051_IMG_02_0000.jpeg

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/110627672#/

Now that's off-grid! Main access via boat though can be approached via forestry road and a 1/2 mile walk.

Lots of pine tea and fish in the diet I suspect. :)

This is amazing Ewan! Are you going for it?


https://www.dan-wood.co.uk/en/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI38-t9pH88QIVgrHtCh1P8AheEAAYASAAEgJxRfD_BwE

https://www.the-nhouse.com/kit-homes/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI38-t9pH88QIVgrHtCh1P8AheEAAYBCAAEgIW8vD_BwE

Thanks for the links Sérénité, kit form is definitely something I would consider.

As to, 'Am I going for it?', I would dearly like to but it is a little beyond my purchasing power and the wife, who always manages to find the negative in any situation, points out -

It has no electricity.

"We can buy solar panels!"

How do you go shopping?

"Natures larder!"

Amazon doesn't deliver there.

"Excellent!"

No.

"Aww!"

I'm tired of fighting with her, I just surrender...

[Sérénité]

Thanks for the links Sérénité, kit form is definitely something I would consider.

As to, 'Am I going for it?', I would dearly like to but it is a little beyond my purchasing power and the wife, who always manages to find the negative in any situation, points out -

It has no electricity.

"We can buy solar panels!"

How do you go shopping?

"Natures larder!"

Amazon doesn't deliver there.

"Excellent!"

No.

"Aww!"

I'm tired of fighting with her, I just surrender...

Maybe you could meet in the middle and get somewhere fairly remote and not fully off grid?
I think it’s a compromise that I may have to make too, to get my kids on board :)

[Ewan]

Ardhuncart Estate nr Kildrummy, Scotland is for sale as various lots. This one is interesting because there are several affordable properties.

First, the main one, as it comes with over 16 acres is this (https://www.onthemarket.com/details/10646845/) 5 bedroom farm house with outbuildings.

https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/10646845/1357505611/image-0-1024x1024.jpg

Then Lot 2 (https://www.onthemarket.com/details/10646842/), Lot 7 (https://www.onthemarket.com/details/10646847/) and Lot 9 (https://www.onthemarket.com/details/10646849/)

https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/10646849/1357505618/image-0-1024x1024.jpg

https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/10646847/1357505615/image-1-1024x1024.jpg

https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/10646842/1357505606/image-2-1024x1024.jpg

Four properties local to each other and a 16 acre area of land to work.

[Matthew]

Lot 4 which is the set of buildings next to Lot 2, would go well with Lot 2. Thinking aloud. I didn't hear back from my 'estate agent expert' the first time, but I will ask for his opinion about his one

[Matthew]

Well, I'll throw this one in for the party

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111389033#/media?channel=RES_BUY&id=media0&ref=photoCollage

https://media.rightmove.co.uk/27k/26241/111389033/26241_INV210065_IMG_00_0000.jpeg

[Ewan]

I have today received a communication from my solicitor confirming that he has received an acceptance from a vendors solicitor.

Which means, providing war or an inconvenient breakdown of society does not intervene, I should be living here (below, a 4 bedroom stonebuilt farmhouse) by mid-november..

https://lc.zoocdn.com/520dccf35c7dc8e4e8dcdc58d700db6bce85375c.jpg

https://lc.zoocdn.com/c441258947b97d043a0db0144eb380d74964802e.jpg

[Sérénité]

I have today received a communication from my solicitor confirming that he has received an acceptance from a vendors solicitor.

Which means, providing war or an inconvenient breakdown of society does not intervene, I should be living here (below, a 4 bedroom stonebuilt farmhouse) by mid-november..

https://lc.zoocdn.com/520dccf35c7dc8e4e8dcdc58d700db6bce85375c.jpg

https://lc.zoocdn.com/c441258947b97d043a0db0144eb380d74964802e.jpg

What a gorgeous house!
Wishing you and your family lots of happy times making memories in your new home!
💫

[Ewan]

Well update time. I've been missing from PA for for nearly 5 months. (Ignores chorus of reponses saying they hadn't noticed).

Above property fell through but probably for the best long term. I am now in Ireland and have just been connected to broadband - hence my re-appearance.



https://media.daft.ie/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJtZWRpYW1hc3Rlci1zM2V1IiwiZWRpdHMiOnsicmVzaXplIjp7ImZpdCI6Imluc2lkZSIsIndpZHRoIjoxMjAw LCJoZWlnaHQiOjEyMDB9fSwib3V0cHV0Rm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyIsImtleSI6IjQvZC80ZDNiZDU3YmJjOWY5MjQzYmNiYjA3YzRl N2YzMGY5OC5qcGcifQ==?signature=e747e6762314d4f7b7b8bd356d6e3b917d649e4a69072495007d280f78ea6ea3

https://media.daft.ie/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJtZWRpYW1hc3Rlci1zM2V1IiwiZWRpdHMiOnsicmVzaXplIjp7ImZpdCI6Imluc2lkZSIsIndpZHRoIjoxMjAw LCJoZWlnaHQiOjEyMDB9fSwib3V0cHV0Rm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyIsImtleSI6ImUvZi9lZjE2MzI3YTIzYmU4MzZkNjAwMWI0MGI5 ZmI1YjE3NS5qcGcifQ==?signature=ffe66c33c2db3be7b1bd83aafe19c4e108a1575eebac9353318313a816d1655f

https://media.daft.ie/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJtZWRpYW1hc3Rlci1zM2V1IiwiZWRpdHMiOnsicmVzaXplIjp7ImZpdCI6Imluc2lkZSIsIndpZHRoIjoxMjAw LCJoZWlnaHQiOjEyMDB9fSwib3V0cHV0Rm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyIsImtleSI6IjgvOS84OTUyN2Q0YzMyMmQwYjdhZWM0NzhlN2E5 MDI5NmZiYi5qcGcifQ==?signature=6562ca901516973ffc0c9ce53d85c92356c43ca95e5fb5cf9f2a3d15059fac55

There are 5 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, 2 living rooms and 2 kitchens. I've had all the doors and windows replaced, insulation is going in next month and a 60' x 18' polytunnel will be up in time for next season. A wood burner is also going in place of and old open fire - which, whilst lovely, consumed way to much fuel and chucked most the heat up the chimney.

Chickens will be invited to join us around March when I get the coop built and, of course, a dog and cat to complete the set. I had a small family of rats but 'asked' them to leave and have not seen one in over a week.

Just under an acre but even that seems big when you get to working on it.

[Brigantia]

Wow Ewan, that looks amazing! From accounts I've read, Ireland is very good for living off the grid. My best wishes to you in your new home.

[Ewan]

Update: Winter is here, it was -4 this morning and never got past 3 deg C all day. New windows and doors are in and a 60' polytunnel is up.

https://i.postimg.cc/g0THRgJF/IMG-20221209-090316.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/XqMK1Xds/IMG-20221209-090446.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/fLSjvYt3/IMG-20221209-090524.jpg

[Nasu]

Fantastic Ewen. Great work, the house looks lovely. Keep the pics coming. How are you settling in to living in Ireland?…x…. N

[Ewan]

Fantastic Ewen. Great work, the house looks lovely. Keep the pics coming. How are you settling in to living in Ireland?…x…. N

Settling in is real easy. The Irish have a good mentality, laid back and always joking. They have scant regard for stupid rules but I cannot speak for when lockdown was here. That said, I know nothing of life in the big city Dublin.

Officialdom is the same the world over it seems. It grinds slowly and always seems to make things more difficult than they need to be.

Next up, transforming an open fire with a modern stove, raised beds, and chicken coop.

[Spiral]

It looks idyllic, is there an old well or water source ?

Are you going to plant fruit trees too ?

[Ewan]

It looks idyllic, is there an old well or water source ?

Are you going to plant fruit trees too ?

No well or water source but plentiful rain so collecting will be easy. Also on a hill and water must run down so it may be possible to find some. There is a local community supply maintained by locals so can't be cut off from the mains by big water boards.

Fruit trees will definitely be going in, there's a young pear tree here put in by the last people but it is in a very bad exposed position so I will look at moving that whilst it is still young.

[Sérénité]

This looks idyllic! And far less maintenance than the previous one.
Wishing you a healthy and happy life in your new home 💫

[Ewan]

Old fireplace removed and rebuilt, it was a pretty ugly thing.
I went for a fresh but still rustic look.

https://i.postimg.cc/tCnVMcRT/Fireplace-Orig.jpg
The Original Fireplace

https://i.postimg.cc/B6tv18X6/Fireplace-Demo1.jpg
Fireplace Removal

https://i.postimg.cc/sD5pT2Jx/Fireplace-Demo2.jpg
Nearly There

https://i.postimg.cc/vTf62Pfk/Fireplace-Rebuild.jpg
Rebuild Begins

https://i.postimg.cc/0jYb0zqq/Fireplace-New2.jpg
New Fireplace

https://i.postimg.cc/3RpR3kND/Fireplace-New3.jpg
All Done

[Ewan]

Just a little update. There are two pups here now and 10 chickens, 9 pullets, one of which has just started laying, and a handsome rooster just a year old. I felt obliged to name the rooster, not sure why, I'm calling him Hannibal. The dogs are cross spaniel/pointer.

Three ducks will be arriving next weekend, purchased from a local guy that has thirty of them!

Lots of seeds planted and an early tomato that we started indoors but is now transplanted to the polytunnel is showing small fruits already!

https://i.ibb.co/3Ns9Xp7/Hannibal.jpg
The Boss, Hannibal.

https://i.ibb.co/SPqnCF4/Overseer.jpg
He's always watching over them.

https://i.ibb.co/8xCMvjC/Pups.jpg
The pups are sisters and have been named Brownie and Scamp

[Johan (Keyholder)]

Congrats on the progress you have made the past year Ewan!
It is impressive and it can be an example, for all of us.

[Ewan]

Congrats on the progress you have made the past year Ewan!
It is impressive and it can be an example, for all of us.

Believe me I really have not done that much. If I was ten years younger and twenty years fitter there would have been a lot more accomplished. (8 months tomorrow since moving in :) ).

But thank you sincerely for the encouraging praise. :sun:

[wondering]

Ewan, I have been oblivious to this thread until today. Wow, I am so happy for you but also awed by the amount of work it must take...beautiful land, gorgeous animals and the tunnel is so impressive. I can almost smell the morning air. Many blessings on your new home and the many years ahead. thanks for sharing your new lifestyle!

[Szymon]

Old fireplace removed and rebuilt, it was a pretty ugly thing.
I went for a fresh but still rustic look.

https://i.postimg.cc/tCnVMcRT/Fireplace-Orig.jpg
The Original Fireplace

https://i.postimg.cc/B6tv18X6/Fireplace-Demo1.jpg
Fireplace Removal

https://i.postimg.cc/sD5pT2Jx/Fireplace-Demo2.jpg
Nearly There

https://i.postimg.cc/vTf62Pfk/Fireplace-Rebuild.jpg
Rebuild Begins

https://i.postimg.cc/0jYb0zqq/Fireplace-New2.jpg
New Fireplace

https://i.postimg.cc/3RpR3kND/Fireplace-New3.jpg
All Done


Looking great.

Did you do the fireplace yourself?

Cheers,
Szymon

[Ewan]

Looking great.

Did you do the fireplace yourself?

Cheers,
Szymon

Thank you.
Everything but fitting the stove.

[Ewan]

Sadder update.

Of the nine egg-layers there are only 3 left. Cutting a long story short it appears to have been a weasel with the first three kills. Judging by the puncture marks in the neck the front canines were less half an inch apart. Every local had their own theory and each appeared adamant, it was a pine marten, a ferret, a mink, a fox. Nobody initially came up with weasel, but the farmer (72) that lives but 200m away on the opposite side of the road suggested weasel as soon as he heard about it. That very afternoon I saw one darting from overgrown cover across an open space to more cover. The youngest also saw him/her but didn't know what it was.

I borrowed a catch and release trap (ferret/mink size) and baited it, four days with no success. Fifth day I moved it to a new location and put a chicken wing, (supermarket bought), in as bait. Next day the bait was gone and the trap hadn't fired. Whatever took it was either too light for the trigger or too crafty - or simply hopped over it.

Desperation measures called for I went and got two rat traps. They are viscious contraptions and I wasn't exactly happy about using them but it seemed to be a 'needs must' situation. Given that the dogs could trigger them I placed them on top of an old stone wall at the edge of the property underneath some low branches. (Hoping I didn't catch a crow or a magpie, wouldn't be a chicken as they are now inside a chicken wire enclosure and limited to a small run). Early that evening I cautiously approached a point where I knew I could see the trap - lo and behold an immature rat happily feeding on chicken from the side of the trap where it was in no danger of touching the trigger. I decided to give up at this point.

Since I had caged the hens there had been no more kills anyway, all the deaths had occurred with hens finding places to lay out, (ie: not in the coop). One week fast forward and one morning three dead chickens and this time there was no doubt who the culprit was. The little brown dog aka 'Brownie'. She had wriggled under a portion of the fence. That was just yesterday. Dogs are now chained up on the back porch. Chickens are penned in. Freedoms gone for both.

Everyone in lockdown. :(

[Harmony]

It's so difficult when these kind of things happen, and love both parties of such an unfortunate event. :heart: I hope you can find a solution Ewan, maybe a good strong mobile chicken run?

[norman]

Geese are a lot hardier than hens. They stick up for themselves very well.

A broody hen will sit on and hatch a (fertile)Goose egg or two, if you are lucky enough to have both available at the same time.

[Matthew]

I live in suburbia and I don't know about things like chickens. But I heard some dogs can be good chicken guards with training.

https://www.k9ofmine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/dogs-that-are-good-with-chickens-850x520.jpg

[Mari]

Geese can make excellent 'guard dogs', that's quite well known. I knew someone who lived in Wales who had a couple of ferocious pet turkeys - there was no way of getting past them when they were on duty.

Geese can be trained to guard livestock:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDeI8j55wwY

[Ewan]

Everything going well here in waterlogged Ireland. It has been a wet summer and well into a wet autumn. Not ideal growing conditions, especially for the farmers and turf bogs so prevalent here in this region.

The potatoes flourished outside, as did the outdoor onions. Weather apparently good for them.

Meanwhile, inside the polytunnel. Two crops already harvested of cherry tomatoes, onions, and verious salad plants. Still growing are zuchinni/courgette, cabbage, beefsteak tomatoe and various Thia Herb such as Basil and Lemongrass - also some ginger just coming on nicely.


https://i.postimg.cc/PpwZ555h/Beds.jpg

The first bed built.

https://i.postimg.cc/q6GNNhVf/More-Beds.jpg

A more expansive view.

https://i.postimg.cc/k6K6dYTg/HerbBed.jpg

Mostly Thai Herbs, some others.


https://i.postimg.cc/sBBGTgSS/BeefTom.jpg

Over a three inch diameter on these hefty fruits.



https://i.postimg.cc/t1LZwGtc/TwoGeese.jpg

Self explanatory

--------------------------------
--------------------------------

Now, on the subject of Zuchinni/Courgettes. Learn the hard way, learn for life. I don't know if this would apply to outdoor grown plants in sunnier climes but inside the polytunnel in this high humidity year I lost quite a lot of veg to some kind of mould. I discovered that if I did not pinch of the flower as it started to wilt it would cling to the end of the fruit and go rotten. That rot spread to the fruit itself causing the mould.


https://i.postimg.cc/DSwXbgwx/Zuc-Flower.jpg

Full Flower

https://i.postimg.cc/pmcnQF9R/Zuc-Flower-Remove.jpg

This is the point to pinch the flower off, actually earlier if possible.

https://i.postimg.cc/m14cZ3nN/Zuc-Flower-Young.jpg

A young fruit just about to blossom.

https://i.postimg.cc/BPfFLfjF/Zuchini.jpg

The result. That bread knife has a 9" blade!

If you want to see a larger image here (https://postimg.cc/gallery/bn1xqjS) is link to gallery.