Osteoporosis induced by anorexia - help

[toppy]

My 24 years old daughter has anorexia nervosa for 10 years now and she was diagnosed with osteoporosis. Because anorexia is the cause of it the doctors can't prescribe any drugs, the best treatment is for her to start to eat normal, which is not going to happen.
Does anyone had the same problem or know about it and can give me some advice?
Are there some treatments to it?
Many thanks!

[silver birch]

Toppy,
as I like to find the root cause for everything I have one suggestion. Sometimes physical ailments have some connection to earlier experiences in this life or former lives as everyone knows.
I am an old man now and have had many debilitating problems almost all my life. About three years ago I started viewing sessions by Calogero Grifasi and his team. It is mainly regression therapy but an advanced variant with checks for imposters and such.
Some people can get well just by looking att their videos and learning how to program their higher self for protection, eliminate the parasites and get rid of low frequency (negative) emotions.
I felt after about a year that I needed a session for myself and that was very interesting.
I made a deal with parasites a few hundred years into our calendar and that was still affecting my present life. Two years later I am almost free from my ailments and feeling really good.
If you think it's a good idea they also have a romanian channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/ROHipnoz%C4%83Regresiv%C4%83CalogeroGrifasi/videos
and otherwise the english may be best
https://www.youtube.com/c/ENRegressiveHypnosisCalogeroGrifasi/featured

I do not know if your daughter can eat any vitamines at this point but D3 with K2 is probably interesting as the K2 directs the calcium from soft tissues like the blood circulation system and muscle tissue to the skeleton and teeth.
If I understand the chemistry right ...
I know naathing.

All the best to you

[Mike Gorman]

How distressing for you, I know of quite a few young ladies who choose this behaviour because my best friend and long time companion is a psychiatric nurse - and we know, don't we, that it is the front line, nursing and support people who deliver the actual therapy, and deal with the afflicted on a personal level on a daily basis! I am not belittling psychiatrists and doctors, some of these can be very effective, but in the trench warfare of mental illness these people tend to only deliver an overarching diagnostic consultation style interaction: nurses are working on a much more dynamic face-to-face basis, and the better operators who genuinely care about these poor souls can make an incredible difference.
Adolescent girls are the major group who manifest this eating disorder response to anxiety, and also sometimes to 'punish' their families. It is essential to be completely honest about your family relationships, and examine each facet to provide yourself with an explanation as to why your daughter is behaving this way: are there conflicts/difficulties between you and your partner, have there been stresses which you have been unaware of (sexual interference/abuse) in the past?
Whenever kids manifest anomalous behaviour, there is usually a problem in the home environment, problems between adults, hidden factors-Anorexia is often an anxiety based issue, stress/fear is often at the root of it.
Sometimes the Anorexia is compounded by other issues, 'hair pulling' and chewing of hair roots is a classic one (Trichotillomania).
Absolute honesty is critical, families can often be in denial about their own issues.
Sorry to hear of this, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all solution to this matter: specialised therapies are needed, reviewing the causes, and re-educating the afflicted person to resume eating a healthy diet. Multi-vitamins are critical, protein drinks can help. I would seek out some specialised assistance before your daughter's health is damaged too much.

[Patient]

If kids don't have enough stress growing up these days with the phones and media in their faces, they had to add covid as well.

Eating disorders are difficult. I don't have the answer, but I would say that a good friend would always be a good thing regardless of the ailment. Maybe encourage more time with her friends - and hopefully her friends aren't part of the problem.

Maybe some thing new to do? Maybe a good distraction?

I have kids and I know it hurts when your kids are hurting.

I wish I had more for you.

[Agape]

What about cheese ? Try different types of cheeses as they’re healthy, easy to eat and high on organic calcium.

Calcium supplements distributed by big pharma, sometimes in high doses cause further anorexia as they’re not good for stomach and have many side effects.

Also many vegetables are naturally high on calcium such as beetroots. Pick things that are actually tasty and healthy option at the same time.

I think there has to be bigger reason for osteoporosis increase through last 50 years in many advanced economies, such as reported fluoridation of water -

you can also supplement calcium in good choice of mineral water bottles.


Beware of consumption of too many leaf vegetables in long term, can cause demineralization.

...


🍀

[Jayke]

Anorexia has been linked to Zinc deficiency in some studies. Zinc supplementation can help aid both the psychological and physical components of the condition.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2600063/


Decreased food intake, a cyclic pattern of eating, and weight loss are major manifestations of zinc deficiency. In this study, zinc status was evaluated in 62 patients with bulimia and 24 patients with anorexia nervosa. Forty percent of patients with bulimia and 54% of those with anorexia nervosa had biochemical evidence of zinc deficiency. The authors suggest that for a variety of reasons, such as lower dietary intake of zinc, impaired zinc absorption, vomiting, diarrhea, and binging on low-zinc foods, patients with eating disorders may develop zinc deficiency. This acquired zinc deficiency could then add to the chronicity of altered eating behavior in those patients.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11930982/


The clinical manifestations of zinc deficiency and anorexia nervosa are remarkably similar, and a number of studies have demonstrated that there may be a positive correlation between zinc therapy and the rate of recovery of anorexia nervosa patients. However, because of the different interpretations of the results of these studies, the use of zinc supplementation varies. This article examines the evidence supporting zinc supplementation in the treatment of anorexia nervosa. Randomised, double-blind, controlled clinical trials indicate that zinc therapy enhances the rate of recovery in anorexia nervosa patients by increasing weight gain and improving their levels of anxiety and depression. On the basis of these findings and the low toxicity of zinc, zinc supplementation should be included in the treatment protocol for anorexia nervosa.

[Bill Ryan]

I know very little about this, I'm afraid, and I've never had any friends, or family members of friends, who've crashed into this.

But as best I understand, this is really a mental health issue. It's fundamentally all about self-esteem and self-image. And many anorexics won't acknowledge there's anything wrong with them, so they won't help themselves in any reasonable way.

Supplements won't make any difference, as an anorexic won't take them. They won't take anything. That's the problem. One might have to resort to trickery of some kind, such as putting something in their water (because anorexics do drink).

As best I know. counseling (not psychiatric drugs!) is the only real way out of this, but first the person suffering has to acknowledge that they need help. That's the thing to address, if at all possible, and then steps can start to be taken that may make a difference.

:flower:

[Hym]

Laying nearby an anorexic soul....
I don't eat, nor ingest any supplements.
I go days and weeks without food, and I do it consciously, fearlessly.
I listen to whatever may come and I actively face each thought with openness and count on living alone, in it's infinite power to heal me,
to also nourish me.
I listen and in listening I am healed
And I gain all I need to sustain life, vibrantly.

I use essential oils and lightly inhale the smell from an opened bottle...
Thru a small misting device, I infuse natural fruits, flowers and herbs whose purpose is easy to engage. Better yet, we have gardens where flowers, fruits and foods directly affect us and directly nourish our bodies, even before we injest them.

I always walk barefoot on the sacred ground where the earth directly touches me and my soul. Taking off my shoes is a recognition of my need for nourishment and connection.
Wherever we consider that the earth is not healthy we keep our protective foot coverings on.

Just as one mental health facility starts its patients on at least one raw onion a day, so do other successful ones not allow any coverings on the feet while daily walks on grass or on the soft, bare earth are a vital part of the days activities.

In my healthy indulgences I drink juices, vegetable soups, pureed food with vegetable bullion, and more.
I breathe in thru pursed lips, feeling the cool energy in my lips, the power of oxygen immediately nourishes my mind and my soul.

Where are the real foods my soul craves, the connections with others, playing with nature, not just in it like a visiting stranger, when it is so vital to my even being here in this body...

I am not judgmental, nor pressuring in any way, just matching a state of being in a body that is lacking in nutrients...
Starting with how I would be a breatharian, because we all are

I am not being abusive to my body at all, and feeling more of what it is to be in a body with all of its demands of caring for it....
When the soul is in a deeper need to feel alive.
Wake up that journey in the anorexic body and the rest will take care of itself.

It's not being abusive to the body
When the purposes for being are my focus.
All of the lacks of caring for the body are a misunderstanding of purpose.

If it is based on an abuse from an outside source, a childhood trauma or previous life's traumatic guilt turned inward, then that has to be brought up and dealt with.
Using the effective emotional freedom technique, eft, is a good start.

While touching, rubbing or tapping the points shown in the technique, the active live junctions along organic meridians...we might say...

Even though I have this problem that is affecting my health,

I deeply love and appreciate my life,

I recognize the source of my temporary physical condition and in the stillness,
Life itself listens to my call and answers with Love.

I deeply Love and appreciate myself.

Feeling the efficiency of my body, using the fat it has stored from eating good food, until all of the stored energy in fat is used up. I know this to be natural and healthy. It is called fasting and it is a direct call for my body to serve my soul, creating the colors in my life, the worth in my being here.

If only breath by breath, where living is vibrant and engaging,
Relaxed and open to the unknown that comforts us in the activities that time marks...

Simple steps of fearlessness are learned.
Courage is an act of defiance against the pain that sustains the addiction of anorexia, and the successful one does not lose the lesson into the over indulgence that floods the soul into bulemic binge and purge.

The society pressures some into being thin, then calls them unhealthy even when their metabolism works that way,
and they may be the healthiest people around.

[Adi]

My 24 years old daughter has anorexia nervosa for 10 years now and she was diagnosed with osteoporosis. Because anorexia is the cause of it the doctors can't prescribe any drugs, the best treatment is for her to start to eat normal, which is not going to happen.
Does anyone had the same problem or know about it and can give me some advice?
Are there some treatments to it?
Many thanks!

Hi Toppy,

This is obviously a very difficult set of circumstances for you and your family, and many here have outlined some wise advice. I have some experience of dealing with anorexia nervosa through my own work and family experience. It is an entirely psychological phenomena which manifests into physical symptoms. Drugs do not help - certainly not in my experience.

I came across a girl sometime ago, she was 14 years old, she was hospitalised due to her deteriorating state, secondary to anorexia. She was so inflicted with this disorder that somebody had to sit with her in the hospital 24/7 to watch and prevent her trying to burn calories - for instance if she went into a toilet cubicle she would jump up and down to exercise in attempt to burn calories; this is how sever this thing can get.

Psychiatry will always try and get involved, and to be honest many mean well, but it is intense counselling and support which can drill down to the core issues. Until one makes a physical improvement it's difficult in my experience to heal mentally; they simply don't have the mental energy to engage in real psychological healing when their physical body has been subject to extreme starvation - especially if they have deteriorated to this stage. I have seen people been given naso-gastric tube feeding, it's not pleasant but sometimes there really isn't else left to offer!

Early intervention is imperative, the longer habits go on the stronger and entrenched they may become, healing is always possible, time and perseverance through the difficult stages does pay off.

From what I can make of anorexia, it's as though there is a glitch in one's way of thinking, causing distortion to the normal perception of self; gentle rebalancing/and recalibration of thinking and behaviour through counselling and techniques can and will rebalance self back to mental equilibrium over time - change can/does happen.

Adi.

[Sunny-side-up]

Sorry to hear your stress.

First thought is Kombucha, It has many benefits for the body and most importantly the Gut.

Gut cause of all ill health ?

Plus Kombucha and be made to taste like soda pop, fizzy drinks ect.

It might be a start in the right diction, I do hope so.

Good luck, here have some :sun:

There is a post in Avalon already somewhere, whit title like this "Gut cause of all ill health"

[Journeyman]

I think there's a lot of destructive messaging in mainstream culture which harms girls and young women. Direct and indirect, visual and non, although obviously the emaciated 'ideals' of the catwalk models and magazine cover girls are the most obvious examples. I don't think this is an accident either, I think it's intentional and comes from the destructive minds of the controllers of the society. So as much as can be done to limit that mental pollution may be helpful in winning that side of the battle.

Sending best wishes your way.

[delfine]

The best way to treat osteoporosis, is vitamin D3 combined with vit. K2 and magnesium supplements (not calcium as one might suspect) . Dr. Ken D. Berry has some informative videos on the subject. Best of luck to you and your daughter..

[Agape]

Anorexia ( no matter of what cause) is a symptom, not a “disease” by definition and is also organically bound to the pancreas-liver complex of insulin and glucagon release.

As Bill said, there is almost always underlying trauma in childhood or practically, this may happen to anyone in real life following work or emotional exhaustion for example ( burn out syndrome of modern business class etc),
while in undetected traumatized state body itself naturally suppresses some of its biological functions or tries to “silence” them for time being,
this ability is natural part of survival skills we have inherited from our hunter-gatherer ancestors.

When on long run for example or opposite, in state of hibernation the body shuts down many functions at once, without major difficulties.


Suppressed organ function in chronically anorexic patients is common symptom.

It’s very difficult to feed lots of food to someone with vulnerable digestion system.

Organ function can be on the other hand improved by many alternative methods and therapies, including acupuncture , flower essences, relaxation techniques, yoga etc.


“All you need is Love”



🙏

[Savannah]

Supplements won't make any difference, as an anorexic won't take them. They won't take anything. That's the problem. One might have to resort to trickery of some kind, such as putting something in their water (because anorexics do drink).

I have had some of my anorexic patents take liquid-organic vitamins in water. They cant tolerate the feeling of fullness from the food in their stomach and they have distorted perceptions of weight on their body. This alone will not save their lives but buys you some time in treatment. Eating disorders are difficult to treat and IMO have varied causes. Those on the Autism spectrum even mildly so, who used to be called Asperger's have eating disorders. They have food aversions (wont eat yellow, soft, crunchiness etc.) and will sometimes not sense or feel hungry for days. Many have hx of trauma and have confused sense of control by controlling their bodies. You need someone or a program with specific training in the disorder. Some with anorexia have many OCD symptoms and this is the cause of their eating disorder. I would also recommend past life regression therapy , that may help her understand why she is experiencing this in her current life.

[Strat]

I agree with what Bill said - see a therapist. I also echo his sentiments about using drugs. I know a gal who is bulimic, she's on a cocktail of drugs and she's still bulimic. If you can find a therapist who specializes in anorexia that'd be ideal.

Thinking outside the box, have you tried joining an anorexia forum and asking them for help?

Best of luck

[palehorse]

I know someone that recovered from that, she used to be a model and worked for those disgraceful fashion shows, besides her I also heard creepy stories of model not eating for days and abusing drugs all in the name of keep a lean body for the industry standard, there was in the past many cases of it, and the industry was forced to make changes, but you still see some skinny girls in the cat walking. A whole lot of new generation also want to follow what is in the trend line and they compromise their health all in the name of what they think is beauty.

Please do not get me wrong, I do not know much about your problem, but 10 years it seems a lot of time to me, that girl I knew (a woman today) was into it for like 3 years, she could not eat because it would all come out (puke) and "she started" that, eating and puking after finished the meal, it became some sort of habit no only for her but in between their circle. These girls are up to anything to keep a lean/bony body. I know her story, her family used to be friends with my family.

I hope your daughter recovery, but you or someone in order to help her, will have to find out what is the "fixation" that is keeping her doing it. There is no other way, it is the same for a drug addicted, I gave one example above for someone I know personally, her family was able to help her because they knew her "fixation" and they worked hard on that. Last I talk, she was very well, married with 3 kids, fully recovered, that was one sad episode of her life, and it can be the same with your daughter, just get to know what is causing it to her and work on that.

[ExomatrixTV]

To The Bone:

705yRfs6Dbs
A young woman, dealing with anorexia, meets an unconventional doctor who challenges her to face her condition and embrace life.

torrent (https://piratebayproxy.live/torrent/18120628/To.the.Bone.2017.720p.WEBRip.x264-STRiFE[EtHD])

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTU1MTQ0NDAyNV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNjQ4MjE4MjI@._V1_.jpg

Ellen is a 20 year old woman struggling with anorexia nervosa. In the midst of family problems and her own fears, she is accepted into a group home run by an unusual doctor. Through the people she meets and the journey she takes, Ellen follows a path of self discovery and acceptance that will lead her to a surprising place she never would have thought possible

Did you know:


The 28-year-old actress [Lily Collins] opened up about the moment in an interview with The Edit about the time she was complimented on her weight loss while filming the film. "I was leaving my apartment one day and someone I've known for a long time, my mom's age, said to me, 'Oh, wow, look at you!'" Lily said. "I tried to explain and she goes, 'No! I want to know what you're doing, you look great!' I got into the car with my mom and said, "That is why the problem exists.



Ellen (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2934314/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): People say they love you. But what they mean is they love how loving you makes them feel about themselves.

User reviews110

(https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5541240/reviews?ref_=tt_urv)Top review:

6/10 To people who have suffered with eating disorders...
Do NOT watch this if you have suffered from an eating disorder. It is vert difficult to handle even if the disorder has long been recovered from. The movie weirdly enough made me want to stop eating again. I had to stop watching it halfway through. I do NOT recommend! However, for people who have not suffered from eating disorders, please do watch! It helps people gain a better understanding, which is why I gave it a 6/10.

source (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5541240/)

Sundance 2017 Red Carpet - To The Bone:

pwtfMTEtScM


“There is no point why we live” — scene from To The Bone (2017):

8AjoNRmQ5x8
I feel like he wasn't even acting there, like thats just the hurt Keanu Reeves channeling his life into this scene.

https://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AAUvwngFdawPtoXyt3YcEZlN9jNa7lhNc4VSPofeL-ARKYc=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVVolnBWY1C2vo0-6yvmkxw) 8 months ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AjoNRmQ5x8&lc=Ugz8-NML6h37flSkjpN4AaABAg) quote:

This scene. this scene is my life. ive been anorexic for 2 years, and i know that what my therapist says is true, but i still wait for something to "save" me from myself. i know im the only one who can help myself but i cant. i only feel safe when i stay away from things that can hurt me (going out, socializing, falling in love, getting a hobby) and try to be in control by starving myself. controlling what goes in my mouth gives me a false feeling of safety and relief. ive tried to recover many times, and every time i relapse i feel like im coming home after a long and exhausting day at work, but 100 times more intensely. i know it will kill me one day and i dont want to die. i just want to be safe. it also has to do with the fact that i refuse to grow up. during my childhood i had two loving parents, unconditional love and attention, i was safe and small and clueless and everything was fine. so instead of trying to be strong and start living and growing as a person, im trying to get that back. be smaller. have my family's attention. it sucks. i know exactly what i do wrong, but i dont want to leave it. im scared. i havent been happy or excited in years because while i try to keep myself away from pain and disappointment, i also keep myself away from good things, like the doctor said in the movie.

unquote


► Eli — Breathe | To the Bone:

Pz-TGQBqpr4


Meet the doctor (https://www.statnews.com/2017/07/11/anorexia-movie-netflix/) who helped inspire a controversial Netflix movie about anorexia.
[I]To the Bone Writer-Director Marti Noxon on Making a Movie About Anorexia (https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/movies/a10302443/marti-noxon-to-the-bone-interview/)

When you have a Soul to Soul connection ... you can talk directly to the core of the problem: and that is (mostly) Fear ... especially anticipatory social phobia ... Anticipatory Anxiety (https://www.healthline.com/health/anticipatory-anxiety) connected to how you see/view/judge yourself ... For this there is no easy answer and I wish it was/is.

I wonder how "Spiritual Guides" and genuine Psychics respond to this dilemma.

Lost my Soulmate Iris (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89767-My-Favourite-Music&p=1335073&viewfull=1#post1335073) in December 2019 who committed suicide because of (among others) having a General Anxiety Disorder ... She felt safe enough to talk about this problem in 2014 when I was in Germany on vacation with her ... Treated her with respect & 100% focused attention not acting weird about it and take her seriously. She knew I am Near Death Experiencer and have no fear of death. This was one of the reasons she opened up to me.

I can write a book about it what I tired to do to help her ... her parents repeated over and over she had to learn how to be happy without a relationship first before getting a new relation with somebody.

We tried so many things, therapies, workshops etc. eventually I decided to let her be without me for 1 year to be sure it was not me that is the cause she can not go out of her depression. Her friends & family urged her to be alone first for a while and try to find her own path. Not long thereafter she was gone :(

Very sensitive Souls need other kind & empathic Souls who can see her without any programmed behavior but 100% authentic & genuine connection and having enormous patience where you can feel safe to be yourself ... This is in my view the key for healing.

John

[toppy]

Anorexia has been linked to Zinc deficiency in some studies. Zinc supplementation can help aid both the psychological and physical components of the condition.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2600063/


Decreased food intake, a cyclic pattern of eating, and weight loss are major manifestations of zinc deficiency. In this study, zinc status was evaluated in 62 patients with bulimia and 24 patients with anorexia nervosa. Forty percent of patients with bulimia and 54% of those with anorexia nervosa had biochemical evidence of zinc deficiency. The authors suggest that for a variety of reasons, such as lower dietary intake of zinc, impaired zinc absorption, vomiting, diarrhea, and binging on low-zinc foods, patients with eating disorders may develop zinc deficiency. This acquired zinc deficiency could then add to the chronicity of altered eating behavior in those patients.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11930982/


The clinical manifestations of zinc deficiency and anorexia nervosa are remarkably similar, and a number of studies have demonstrated that there may be a positive correlation between zinc therapy and the rate of recovery of anorexia nervosa patients. However, because of the different interpretations of the results of these studies, the use of zinc supplementation varies. This article examines the evidence supporting zinc supplementation in the treatment of anorexia nervosa. Randomised, double-blind, controlled clinical trials indicate that zinc therapy enhances the rate of recovery in anorexia nervosa patients by increasing weight gain and improving their levels of anxiety and depression. On the basis of these findings and the low toxicity of zinc, zinc supplementation should be included in the treatment protocol for anorexia nervosa.

Thank you, Jayke.
I did not know about zinc. I will show my daughter the links and hopefully convince her to take some.

[toppy]

Toppy,
as I like to find the root cause for everything I have one suggestion. Sometimes physical ailments have some connection to earlier experiences in this life or former lives as everyone knows.
I am an old man now and have had many debilitating problems almost all my life. About three years ago I started viewing sessions by Calogero Grifasi and his team. It is mainly regression therapy but an advanced variant with checks for imposters and such.
Some people can get well just by looking att their videos and learning how to program their higher self for protection, eliminate the parasites and get rid of low frequency (negative) emotions.
I felt after about a year that I needed a session for myself and that was very interesting.
I made a deal with parasites a few hundred years into our calendar and that was still affecting my present life. Two years later I am almost free from my ailments and feeling really good.
If you think it's a good idea they also have a romanian channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/ROHipnoz%C4%83Regresiv%C4%83CalogeroGrifasi/videos
and otherwise the english may be best
https://www.youtube.com/c/ENRegressiveHypnosisCalogeroGrifasi/featured

I do not know if your daughter can eat any vitamines at this point but D3 with K2 is probably interesting as the K2 directs the calcium from soft tissues like the blood circulation system and muscle tissue to the skeleton and teeth.
If I understand the chemistry right ...
I know naathing.

All the best to you

Thanks Silver Birch,
My daughter have had past lifes regressions with Will Berlinghoff but without success.
We've had a session also with a canadian dark spirits attached removal but again without success.

[toppy]

How distressing for you, I know of quite a few young ladies who choose this behaviour because my best friend and long time companion is a psychiatric nurse - and we know, don't we, that it is the front line, nursing and support people who deliver the actual therapy, and deal with the afflicted on a personal level on a daily basis! I am not belittling psychiatrists and doctors, some of these can be very effective, but in the trench warfare of mental illness these people tend to only deliver an overarching diagnostic consultation style interaction: nurses are working on a much more dynamic face-to-face basis, and the better operators who genuinely care about these poor souls can make an incredible difference.
Adolescent girls are the major group who manifest this eating disorder response to anxiety, and also sometimes to 'punish' their families. It is essential to be completely honest about your family relationships, and examine each facet to provide yourself with an explanation as to why your daughter is behaving this way: are there conflicts/difficulties between you and your partner, have there been stresses which you have been unaware of (sexual interference/abuse) in the past?
Whenever kids manifest anomalous behaviour, there is usually a problem in the home environment, problems between adults, hidden factors-Anorexia is often an anxiety based issue, stress/fear is often at the root of it.
Sometimes the Anorexia is compounded by other issues, 'hair pulling' and chewing of hair roots is a classic one (Trichotillomania).
Absolute honesty is critical, families can often be in denial about their own issues.
Sorry to hear of this, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all solution to this matter: specialised therapies are needed, reviewing the causes, and re-educating the afflicted person to resume eating a healthy diet. Multi-vitamins are critical, protein drinks can help. I would seek out some specialised assistance before your daughter's health is damaged too much.

Yes, Mike it is distressing. How did you get the idea that we did not have specialised therapies? She was hospitalized here in Denmark many times and now she is getting out from a special program named Sala after 1,5 years where she did not improve at all, she was worse and worse.
So the specialised assitance was seeked a long time ago but without any success.

[toppy]

I know very little about this, I'm afraid, and I've never had any friends, or family members of friends, who've crashed into this.

But as best I understand, this is really a mental health issue. It's fundamentally all about self-esteem and self-image. And many anorexics won't acknowledge there's anything wrong with them, so they won't help themselves in any reasonable way.

Supplements won't make any difference, as an anorexic won't take them. They won't take anything. That's the problem. One might have to resort to trickery of some kind, such as putting something in their water (because anorexics do drink).

As best I know. counseling (not psychiatric drugs!) is the only real way out of this, but first the person suffering has to acknowledge that they need help. That's the thing to address, if at all possible, and then steps can start to be taken that may make a difference.

:flower:

Thanks, Bill.
She knows that she has a mental issue but she can't help it.
We could not trick her, she is very, very smart (she just became an astrophysicist and she will start a Ph.D. in astrophysics in Sweden later this year).
We know that the salvation has to come from herself (and she knows it too) but it's very hard to fight with this mental issue.
I was just hoping that anyone here could have a quick solution for her osteoporosis.

[toppy]

Hi Strat,
Thank you.
We are seeing special therapists for 8 years and of course we have asked for help from other recovered anorexic girls in various forums. Nothing worked. That's why we are so desperate. She has such a bright future in front of her but there is this big question mark of health.

[toppy]

To The Bone:

705yRfs6Dbs
A young woman, dealing with anorexia, meets an unconventional doctor who challenges her to face her condition and embrace life.

torrent (https://piratebayproxy.live/torrent/18120628/To.the.Bone.2017.720p.WEBRip.x264-STRiFE[EtHD])

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTU1MTQ0NDAyNV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNjQ4MjE4MjI@._V1_.jpg

Ellen is a 20 year old woman struggling with anorexia nervosa. In the midst of family problems and her own fears, she is accepted into a group home run by an unusual doctor. Through the people she meets and the journey she takes, Ellen follows a path of self discovery and acceptance that will lead her to a surprising place she never would have thought possible

Did you know:


The 28-year-old actress [Lily Collins] opened up about the moment in an interview with The Edit about the time she was complimented on her weight loss while filming the film. "I was leaving my apartment one day and someone I've known for a long time, my mom's age, said to me, 'Oh, wow, look at you!'" Lily said. "I tried to explain and she goes, 'No! I want to know what you're doing, you look great!' I got into the car with my mom and said, "That is why the problem exists.



Ellen (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2934314/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): People say they love you. But what they mean is they love how loving you makes them feel about themselves.

User reviews110

(https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5541240/reviews?ref_=tt_urv)Top review:

6/10 To people who have suffered with eating disorders...
Do NOT watch this if you have suffered from an eating disorder. It is vert difficult to handle even if the disorder has long been recovered from. The movie weirdly enough made me want to stop eating again. I had to stop watching it halfway through. I do NOT recommend! However, for people who have not suffered from eating disorders, please do watch! It helps people gain a better understanding, which is why I gave it a 6/10.

source (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5541240/)

Sundance 2017 Red Carpet - To The Bone:

pwtfMTEtScM


“There is no point why we live” — scene from To The Bone (2017):

8AjoNRmQ5x8
I feel like he wasn't even acting there, like thats just the hurt Keanu Reeves channeling his life into this scene.

https://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AAUvwngFdawPtoXyt3YcEZlN9jNa7lhNc4VSPofeL-ARKYc=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVVolnBWY1C2vo0-6yvmkxw) 8 months ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AjoNRmQ5x8&lc=Ugz8-NML6h37flSkjpN4AaABAg) quote:

This scene. this scene is my life. ive been anorexic for 2 years, and i know that what my therapist says is true, but i still wait for something to "save" me from myself. i know im the only one who can help myself but i cant. i only feel safe when i stay away from things that can hurt me (going out, socializing, falling in love, getting a hobby) and try to be in control by starving myself. controlling what goes in my mouth gives me a false feeling of safety and relief. ive tried to recover many times, and every time i relapse i feel like im coming home after a long and exhausting day at work, but 100 times more intensely. i know it will kill me one day and i dont want to die. i just want to be safe. it also has to do with the fact that i refuse to grow up. during my childhood i had two loving parents, unconditional love and attention, i was safe and small and clueless and everything was fine. so instead of trying to be strong and start living and growing as a person, im trying to get that back. be smaller. have my family's attention. it sucks. i know exactly what i do wrong, but i dont want to leave it. im scared. i havent been happy or excited in years because while i try to keep myself away from pain and disappointment, i also keep myself away from good things, like the doctor said in the movie.

unquote


► Eli — Breathe | To the Bone:

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Meet the doctor (https://www.statnews.com/2017/07/11/anorexia-movie-netflix/) who helped inspire a controversial Netflix movie about anorexia.
[I]To the Bone Writer-Director Marti Noxon on Making a Movie About Anorexia (https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/movies/a10302443/marti-noxon-to-the-bone-interview/)

When you have a Soul to Soul connection ... you can talk directly to the core of the problem: and that is (mostly) Fear ... especially anticipatory social phobia ... Anticipatory Anxiety (https://www.healthline.com/health/anticipatory-anxiety) connected to how you see/view/judge yourself ... For this there is no easy answer and I wish it was/is.

I wonder how "Spiritual Guides" and genuine Psychics respond to this dilemma.

Lost my Soulmate Iris (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89767-My-Favourite-Music&p=1335073&viewfull=1#post1335073) in December 2019 who committed suicide because of (among others) having a General Anxiety Disorder ... She felt safe enough to talk about this problem in 2014 when I was in Germany on vacation with her ... Treated her with respect & 100% focused attention not acting weird about it and take her seriously. She knew I am Near Death Experiencer and have no fear of death. This was one of the reasons she opened up to me.

I can write a book about it what I tired to do to help her ... her parents repeated over and over she had to learn how to be happy without a relationship first before getting a new relation with somebody.

We tried so many things, therapies, workshops etc. eventually I decided to let her be without me for 1 year to be sure it was not me that is the cause she can not go out of her depression. Her friends & family urged her to be alone first for a while and try to find her own path. Not long thereafter she was gone :(

Very sensitive Souls need other kind & empathic Souls who can see her without any programmed behavior but 100% authentic & genuine connection and having enormous patience where you can feel safe to be yourself ... This is in my view the key for healing.

John

Thank you, John.
For a couple of years I was trying to see that movie but I can't.
I'm living it every day.
I just don't know what to do to help her to get out of this spiral of destruction.

[toppy]

What about cheese ? Try different types of cheeses as they’re healthy, easy to eat and high on organic calcium.

Calcium supplements distributed by big pharma, sometimes in high doses cause further anorexia as they’re not good for stomach and have many side effects.

Also many vegetables are naturally high on calcium such as beetroots. Pick things that are actually tasty and healthy option at the same time.

I think there has to be bigger reason for osteoporosis increase through last 50 years in many advanced economies, such as reported fluoridation of water -

you can also supplement calcium in good choice of mineral water bottles.


Beware of consumption of too many leaf vegetables in long term, can cause demineralization.

...


🍀

Thanks, agape but no chance. She is not eating cheese, it contains too much fats.

[Bluegreen]

I am familiar with osteoporosis and follow a daily and unstrenuous stretching routine concentrating (in my case) on the spine and legs. I got the routine from the Atlanta Falcons but any standard athletic warmup is fine. The point is to do it, and NOT overdo it. Kneading and massaging muscles for short periods of time may be helpful. Vitamin D, sunlight, and grounding cannot hurt. Maybe you have tried the high protein drinks designed mainly for old people like Ensure or Boost.

[toppy]

Sorry to hear your stress.

First thought is Kombucha, It has many benefits for the body and most importantly the Gut.

Gut cause of all ill health ?

Plus Kombucha and be made to taste like soda pop, fizzy drinks ect.

It might be a start in the right diction, I do hope so.

Good luck, here have some :sun:

There is a post in Avalon already somewhere, whit title like this "Gut cause of all ill health"

Thanks Sunny side up but even if I am drinking kombutcha for ore than one year, she will not drink it. Everything that she eats or drinks has to be measured in kcal so it's impossible to show her how many kcal are in kombutcha. So it's dead from the start.

[Agape]

What about cheese ? Try different types of cheeses as they’re healthy, easy to eat and high on organic calcium.

Calcium supplements distributed by big pharma, sometimes in high doses cause further anorexia as they’re not good for stomach and have many side effects.

Also many vegetables are naturally high on calcium such as beetroots. Pick things that are actually tasty and healthy option at the same time.

I think there has to be bigger reason for osteoporosis increase through last 50 years in many advanced economies, such as reported fluoridation of water -

you can also supplement calcium in good choice of mineral water bottles.


Beware of consumption of too many leaf vegetables in long term, can cause demineralization.

...


🍀

Thanks, agape but no chance. She is not eating cheese, it contains too much fats.


What can she eat though ?


I don’t think there is any quick fix for osteoporosis if the person will fundamentally oppose remineralizing their bones. Just look at it practically.


Some of us enjoy vanishing ..


🌸

[Hym]

I was reading this thread, Toppy, when a musical documentary on the Carpenters came on our public t.v. station, PBS.
This contains the beautiful and tragic story of Richard and Karen Carpenter, a brother and sister act you likely know about.

(I'm listening to Karen singing Bless The Beasts and The Children, from the movie of the same name, directed by Stanley Kramer. I met Bill Mumy at the screening he had of the film, a director friend of mine, a fellow student at university, invited me to see. All I remember much was how the song fit in, with Karens beautiful voice... and seeing Bill with long hair, like the rest of us.)

An integral and undeniable part of the Carpenters story is Karen dealing with the anorexia that finally took her life. I see the synchronicity and am listening to the story as I write this.

It made me think of all the things people do that are not healthy, physically, nutritionally, mentally and socially. So many of them are very talented, a note which shows a capacity for great self healing.

It also reminded me of some of those things I and some others have done, it seems forever, things that follow a natural flow of awareness about eating, resting, fasting, etc..Here is one of those things.....

As a fighter, no matter what the conflict or challenge is, it is common to eat very, very, very slowly before engaging. My friends always comment about this habit of mine, and I remind them to slow down and enjoy their food, get it chewed up well, until it is almost liquid. I feel it always giving me strength and more will power, all in a very quiet, relaxed way.

I don't know if this will help her, but one of the most connective habits we can have in our lives is taking the time to eat so slow that it takes 30 minutes or so to eat the amount of food that fills up only a palm full in your hand. It gives an amazing amount of awareness and calm....And here my words do not do the practice justice. Try it yourself and tell us what your experience is. Your daughter will get it immediately, once she experiences it.

I know it can temporarily reverse depression in just one sitting, tho by no means being a permanent or complete solution to the dismissal of self-worth that is the marker for anorexia. I've seen it do wonders in a variety of stressful situations.....

I know this because i know of a young soul persecuted by his parents, who locked himself in his room and somehow knew to do this one thing. Eat very, very slowly.

Tho I know it from a lifetime of a natural trait and a habit i practiced in the evening meal, or palm meal I called it, the day before any important test, this young man used it to relieve his thoughts of suicide and of the self abuse he had just started.

When I told him that it was an ancient practice, one used by warriors and adepts alike when facing an impending or lingering danger to life itself, his whole demeanor changed.

He was comforted that he wasn't alone. His breathing changed. The look on his face was one of strength. I saw his eyes looking into the future, as a warrior would, in his own way.

Sometimes it's as easy as choosing to breathe deeper, setting a time for doing a rhythmic practice before the day gets going. Remembering, thru those deep breaths activates the same strengths.

As I have a habit of eliciting these personal details, I have long since not questioned why my ears get these blessings to hear, except that people know I will keep the identity quiet, while I reveal what I see as the heart of the experience. Even if there is not a personal success, tho there most often is, they know at least that someone, somewhere will benefit from it all.


Astrophysics! Starseed indeed!

What nourishes a star?
And we know stars have, on average, long lives.

In astro cosmology we understand the interconnectivity of this plasma universe, where all galaxies touch each other. These are the unknowns we are all beginning to define, answering many things our souls, our intuitions have always told us about, even if it is just some unspoken truth that has bugged us for so long.

Astrophysics.....You gotta live well and long at this time,
Now that so many barriers are being shattered in the fields that astrophysics cover....What an interesting choice for someone to make at this time in the history of that one scientific field...... ...... ............... .. ..... ......... .

By the way, at times numbers, birth numbers and the challenges that are really the gifts of the interrelationships that make up the quantum dynamics each soul has within this little world, sometimes reveal tendencies and habits that can be attributed to those core birth markers....

Time and space can be folded and rearranged to meet the need.
What seems to be vast, empty space is full of energy and it can be revealed when we use an optic that sometimes needs to be invented, by us.

[Stephanie]

Dearest Hym,
Just wanted to say how gently you touched a very delicate subject,
so softly and intuitively.💖🙏🏻

Maybe the emotional, physical and spiritual side need a helping hand in knowing what she feels is her purpose.

For now lots of mineral water and times spent in nature,
and amongst trees that resonate with her, swimming in the sea or natural water... little steps at a time.

All my loving, healing blessings to toppy and her lovely daughter,
and to all the sensitive, creative and beautiful people whom express
in their own special ways.

:star::star:💖:star::star:

[Anna70]

I wonder if transdermal magnesium may be helpful if oral is difficult. Very best of healing wishes.

[EarthGirl]

Dear Toppy I have no 'sage' advice except to say 'a trouble shared is a trouble halved'

I recently shared a very personal experience and while it won't fix the situation all I can say is that I felt Avalons heartfelt intentions which made the situation at least a little more bearable.

If there is a way to end this situation then you are now a lot further down the path...

Heartfelt HUGS x

[toppy]

All my loving, healing blessings to toppy and her lovely daughter,
and to all the sensitive, creative and beautiful people whom express
in their own special ways.

:star::star:💖:star::star:

Thank you, Stephanie.
We appreciate all the help we can get.

[Hym]

And Toppy.....
Here I am finally recognizing your avatar, how many years after you posted it?

A stargate is what a mother is....For only thru her....

A Stargate that created a Starseed now searching to find her way...

And if there have to be more than a few attempts...
Well, there's some cool water there beyond the end of the pier....
It'll be fun either way....and refreshing.

It is no coincidence that she's a star gazing scientist.

May she find those worlds while she's here,
And may those worlds find her....
In health and happiness...

[Tintin]

My 24 years old daughter has anorexia nervosa for 10 years now and she was diagnosed with osteoporosis. Because anorexia is the cause of it the doctors can't prescribe any drugs, the best treatment is for her to start to eat normal, which is not going to happen.
Does anyone had the same problem or know about it and can give me some advice?
Are there some treatments to it?
Many thanks!

Toppy :flower:

I can recommend this remarkable young woman Hope Virgo (http://www.hopevirgo.com/) with whom I worked at the Alzheimer's Society in London about five years ago or so now, and her book 'Stand Tall Little Girl (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stand-Tall-Little-Girl-Anorexia/dp/1911246151)'. She really has had quite a battle over the years and is one of the bravest and kindest souls I've had the pleasure to meet.

Although I've yet to read her book I do wonder whether some of what she shares in it may help in some way with your daughter's situation. Hers is an inspiring tale of triumph over adversity.

Here she is in a published interview in today's Guardian newspaper:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/07/hope-virgo-the-woman-who-survived-anorexia-and-began-dump-the-scales

[graciousb]

My 24 years old daughter has anorexia nervosa for 10 years now and she was diagnosed with osteoporosis. Because anorexia is the cause of it the doctors can't prescribe any drugs, the best treatment is for her to start to eat normal, which is not going to happen.
Does anyone had the same problem or know about it and can give me some advice?
Are there some treatments to it?
Many thanks!

I do have some experience with this, I had food issues as a young person, and also due to some medications I had to take I developed osteoporosis myself, in my 50s (now in my 60s). I started life with genetically low bone mass though. I've had approximately 12 different fractures, some very serious, since I was 14.

There is something I use that DOES help (some science behind it), which is vibration plates. There are affordable versions, you stand on them for 10 or 20 minutes a few times a week. That and the obvious things like weight bearing exercise and good diet and avoiding things that leach calcium. She can at least halt the progression so it doesn't get worse.