Meddling

[Gracy]

Meddling. I first thought to add this to the Cuba thread
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115648-Turmoil-in-Cuba

but decided that would take it too far off it's original intent, although Cuba is one of the accused nasties.

We here in the U.S. have this drum beat drilled into our heads, ad nauseum; we don't do it, of course not, although if we happen to here and there, as ex CIA director James Woolsey and FOX NEWS host Laura Ingram giggle like little kids over, it's always for a good cause with a smiley face attached to it.

No, the ones we have to worry about 24/7, are the real culprits, those dirty rotten Commies, Socialists, or any others who happen to fall out of step with the goals of American Imperialism.

One need not believe in or support these other ideologies, in order to understand the situation at hand, and how it's not cool at all to be doing this.

This short video offers a concise view on the subject, and although it's from an obviously socialist point of view, the information contained therein is irrefutable regardless of source. The U.S. is, by far and away, the most egregious perpetrator of meddling, goes hand and hand with Abby Martin's excellent documentaries on the long history of CIA and Military Industrial Complex in regime change seen here:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115423-CIA-Stories-The-CIA-is-Born

This is why the wagging finger of guilt must always be pointed outward towards the next boogeyman, and why national news, either cable or mainstream, Left or Right, will seldom if ever broach the subject with even a ten foot pole.

Never forget Operation Mockingbird, it's still deeply embedded in our media, and thus the minds of many Americans as a result, and as so desired:

(16 minutes)

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[ExomatrixTV]

The U.S. is no Stranger to Interfering (Meddling) in the Elections (https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us-intervention-foreign-elections-20161213-story.html) of other Countries including with support from Democrats & Biden!


America’s History Of Meddling In Foreign Elections:

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Database Tracks History Of U.S. Meddling In Foreign Elections (https://www.wnyc.org/story/database-tracks-history-of-us-meddling-in-foreign-elections/)

Because significant numbers of foreign elections are shams, my comments below addresses whether or not the US interferes in the selection of foreign leaders.
Instances of proved US interference in picking leaders in foreign nations:


Iran, 1953
Guatemala, 1954
Lebanon, 1958
Congo, 1960
Dominican Republic, 1961
South Vietnam, 1963
Brazil, 1964
Dominican Republic, 1965
Congo, 1967
Chile, 1973
Honduras, 1983–1989
Panama, 1989
Yugoslavia, 1999
Iraq, 2003
Libya, 2011

There are more. US history is literally a history of propping up murderous dictators for the benefit of US corporations. As recently as the 1980s US mercenaries as well as some military personnel supported dictators in Central America for the benefit of United Fruit, now Chiquita, and some other corporations.

For the past seventy-five years, the country that has interfered more than any other with the internal political affairs of sovereign nations, has been the United States, this according to the International Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty.
To cite a mere few, the Us influenced or outright controlled elections and ousters of democratically elected officials in Guatemala, Brazil, Argentina, Iran, Chile, Cuba, Granada, Albania, Indonesia, Nicaragua, El Salvador... There have been more than eighty such incidents since the 1940’s.

All the time. Whenever and wherever we see it in our best interests to have a particular candidate win we do what we can to influence the outcome.

That being said, I don’t believe we hack the vote, or stuff the ballot boxes or anything so overt. But we do spread the money around.

This isn’t a partisan thing either. Trump hasn’t been in office long enough, but Obama did it, Bush did it, Clinton etc. go back through our history and we’ve done it. Regardless of what party hold the executive branch.

Barrack Obama tried to interfere in the Brexit referendum and the result was counter productive.


--o-O-o--



The real question which is:

“Why do Americans (regardless of political party) seem to accept interference in the leadership of foreign countries but horrified at the thought of it happening in the US?”

01. Ignorance of what the US government has been doing for the last 100 years. Read history, not news papers, and be informed.
02. Western attitude to stuff that happens outside your country - ‘If it does not affect me I don’t care”.
03. The US has become so divided politically that bias has impacted perceptions.

cheers,
John

[Gracy]

This isn’t a partisan thing either. Trump hasn’t been in office long enough, but Obama did it, Bush did it, Clinton etc. go back through our history and we’ve done it. Regardless of what party hold the executive branch.

Hey John, absolutely it's bipartisan. Though Trump certainly had time during his tenure as well.

Off the top of my head:

- Vetoed a bill that would have ended U.S. support of Saudi Arabia's ongoing genocide in Yemen, and sold them a $100 billion + arms package that further enables them to keep on spreading their radical Wahhibism throughout certain regions, Syria included.

- Imposed heavy sanctions on Venezuela as well as greenlighting multiple coup attempts.

- Continued the destruction of Syria from his predecessor Obama, while also upping the ante by admittedly stealing their their oil to boot, and imposing harsh new sanctions to try and prevent them from rebuilding - They couldn't oust Assad, but could at least keep them wallowing in misery out of spite for the failure.

[ExomatrixTV]

This isn’t a partisan thing either. Trump hasn’t been in office long enough, but Obama did it, Bush did it, Clinton etc. go back through our history and we’ve done it. Regardless of what party hold the executive branch.

Hey John, absolutely it's bipartisan. Though Trump certainly had time during his tenure as well.

Off the top of my head:

- Vetoed a bill that would have ended U.S. support of Saudi Arabia's ongoing genocide in Yemen, and sold them a $100 billion + arms package that further enables them to keep on spreading their radical Wahhibism throughout certain regions, Syria included.

- Imposed heavy sanctions on Venezuela as well as greenlighting multiple coup attempts.

- Continued the destruction of Syria from his predecessor Obama, while also upping the ante by admittedly stealing their their oil to boot, and imposing harsh new sanctions to try and prevent them from rebuilding - They couldn't oust Assad, but could at least keep them wallowing in misery out of spite for the failure.


The problem is that all Presidents are TOLD what to do (not the other way around) when dealing with Foreign Policies (https://www.cfr.org/research-analysis) ... it is soooooo obvious ... and what do people LOVE to blame Trump for what the Bi-Partisan Deep State is pushing ... Part of the Republicans are/were "Never Trumpers" who conspire with Democrats to push for the Bi-Partisan Deep State Agenda that when they have a majority vote ... Trump is FORCED to play out their wishes and if he doesn't he will be called a "Dictator" not complying with the Bi-Partisan Deep State majority vote ... Funny how Mainstream Media will not discuss this blatant rigged system.

If I can figure this out ... why not Mainstream Media? ... No no they rather "blame" Trump for all evil happening in Foreign Affairs & US actions abroad.

HYPOCRITES

Some of the Foreign US Policies were initiated by Trump, for the most part are not (but who cares, really? as most people's minds are already made up) ... the ones that truly involves Trump were anti-war!

Hillary Clinton pushed for more wars as did other old guard Neo-Cons & Democrats. Maybe people love to have blind spots dealing with their own hypocrisies.

cheers,
John


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[O Donna]

The way things are going does not appear sustainable and yet various institutions plot along as if it is. (the oddest thing)

Watch out for that last step, it is a dozy.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/26ed1743f94212183cbc6f0fd403fce9/tenor.gif

[Mike]

The US meddles alright. Much of our meddling is done by our CIA, which - although they will not admit it - isn't truly bound by our constitution. So I don't think our elected representatives endorse or are even aware of half the sh!t they're doing.

But I don't think the world is pissed at us because we meddle. They're pissed at us because we're so good at it.

Remember Lance Armstrong? The disgraced bicycler? Busted for performing enhancing drugs? What always gets neglected in every Lance Armstrong story or documentary is this: nearly all of those bicyclers were on performing enhancing drugs. That was the baseline. You couldn't compete if you weren't on them. Once one person takes them, everyone has to take them. Armstrong didn't introduce PED's into cycling. And he certainly wasn't the first to take them. He was just playing the same game everyone else was playing, but he was playing it better. People didn't loathe him because he took performance enhancing drugs...people loathed him because he was always winning!

So it is with the U.S. We're always winning. And people just can't stand it. Espionage has been going on since forever. All countries do it. We do it more because we can. It's that simple. And guess what? Any other country would do same if they could. They're not doing less meddling because they're inherently more moral or principled - they're doing less meddling because that's all the meddling they can get away with. And that's a vital distinction to make.

[Frankie Pancakes]

You could be sisters

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/07/01/the-system-isnt-there-to-protect-us-from-criminals-its-to-protect-criminals-from-us/
The System Isn’t There To Protect Us From Criminals, It’s To Protect Criminals From Us

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/06/28/us-again-bombs-nations-on-other-side-of-the-world-in-self-defense/
US Again Bombs Nations On Other Side Of The World In “Self-Defense”

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/06/22/so-much-of-what-the-cia-used-to-do-covertly-it-now-does-overtly/
So Much Of What The CIA Used To Do Covertly It Now Does Overtly

[gord]

https://tinyurl.com/ad8e7mxf

[Gracy]

The US meddles alright. Much of our meddling is done by our CIA, which - although they will not admit it - isn't truly bound by our constitution.
Well certainly not. At the very least, considering their ranks were originally swelled by former Nazis right after WW2, and then immediately deep diving into MKULTRA.


So I don't think our elected representatives endorse or are even aware of half the sh!t they're doing.

If true, that doesn't say much for them than does it? Any and all or them. Maybe they've never even heard of the "Church Commission" back in the 70's, concerning their infiltration of US media; or, maybe some of them are well aware, but they're scared to go there, as in the book "None Dare Call it Conspiracy".


We do it more because we can. It's that simple.
So does a serial killer.


Any other country would do same if they could.

I disagree. Some might, but considering the psychopathy ingrained in what they do, I think that mindset is rare.

I'm under no illusions that other countries don't meddle, but most in the end just want to get on with their business, and be left alone. Sure they'd like to increase their standing on the world stage, but not the obsession with world domination at all cost, and who cares how many umpteen lives are ended or ruined in the process.

Currently that is not only CIA attitude, but US foreign policy as well. Like a Reeses Peanutbutter Cup: "Two great tastes that taste great together". :)

[Mike]

The US meddles alright. Much of our meddling is done by our CIA, which - although they will not admit it - isn't truly bound by our constitution.
Well certainly not. At the very least, considering their ranks were originally swelled by former Nazis right after WW2, and then immediately deep diving into MKULTRA.


So I don't think our elected representatives endorse or are even aware of half the sh!t they're doing.

If true, that doesn't say much for them than does it? Any and all or them. Maybe they've never even heard of the "Church Commission" back in the 70's, concerning their infiltration of US media; or, maybe some of them are well aware, but they're scared to go there, as in the book "None Dare Call it Conspiracy".


We do it more because we can. It's that simple.
So does a serial killer.


Any other country would do same if they could.

I disagree. Some might, but considering the psychopathy ingrained in what they do, I think that mindset is rare.

I'm under no illusions that other countries don't meddle, but most in the end just want to get on with their business, and be left alone. Sure they'd like to increase their standing on the world stage, but not the obsession with world domination at all cost, and who cares how many umpteen lives are ended or ruined in the process.

Currently that is not only CIA attitude, but US foreign policy as well. Like a Reeses Peanutbutter Cup: "Two great tastes that taste great together". :)



Just for the record: I don't necessarily like our meddling! I'm not endorsing it. I just refuse to judge it in a vacuum.

Serial killers aren't strategically competing on a world stage for power against other serial killers, so although I know what ya mean there I'm not sure it's an apt metaphor.

Look it's always gonna be my default position to defend the country. I can't dispute the accusation of meddling and I can't dispute it's crippling effect on other countries. I understand why it infuriates you. You bring up some excellent points and articulate them very well. You'd make a pretty good attorney:)

But it's just become so cliche to bash the country. Especially among our youth. I just don't understand the mentality, particularly when there are so many more reasons to be excited about the country.

I don't have a pickup truck with an American flag in the back. I don't wave red,white, and blue foam fingers at patriotic rallies. I don't listen to country music ballads dedicated to our country. But I'm quietly and thoughtfully patriotic because I've done the reading and the research. I understand history now in a way I never have before. And within it's context, I realize just how damn lucky I am to be where I am at the moment. I'm perfectly OK with airing grievances about the country, but now that's all people ever do. It's just one complaint after another, with no regard for all the wonderful things the country has provided them.

So I'm not anti-reality. I'm not in denial about our blemishes. I'm pro context.