Disassociation in China

[Peter UK]

Some of the information revealed in the video is quite shocking from a social perspective.

A reaction or behaviour that can occur anywhere in isolated instances appears to be a cultural phenomenon in China. Is this an extreme form of cognitive dissonance, cultural apathy or a Chinese anomaly? Or statistically is there no difference compared with other countries?

Historical reasons are put forward in an attempt to understand it. It certainly seems to indicate something disturbing within the Chinese psyche different from the usual go to arguments.

Outside of the filmed events themselves the narrator has a lot of experience living in China and speaks Chinese.


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[Pam]

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest. We all have it to varying degrees. It really is a soul deadening structure of the ego. I am trying to become aware of it everyday in myself.

In the social experiments that were shared, I am guessing most didn't even have to rationalize to themselves why they took no action. There seemed to be a couple of people that had a emotional response yet still did nothing.

One thing I noticed is that no one seemed to use their cell phones to call the "authorities" for assistance. I wonder, are they afraid to do that? Is it discouraged? In the US it seems that would be the response, at least some of the time.

[meat suit]

this is really interesting, I have only watched half of this but I get the gist.
this collective behaviour must be the result of living in a totalitarian regime where it is punishable to object and act against the state.
in such a regime people live by rules rather than values.

[syrwong]

Group behaviour is shaped by the social system. It is true there is a great sense of apathy, not my business thinking in the streets of China. This comes from two extreme realities in China corresponding to two different phases of societal order. I will just analysis the case of intervening in a crime.

The transition between the two phases happened in a very short time, maybe just a few years.

Phase 1- From modernization reform to say about 5-10 years ago. Although it was relatively safe walking in the streets, it is too dangerous to intervene on a crime. Take exposing a pickpocketer on a bus as an example. You are almost certain to face a few accomplices armed with knives. Indeed many were killed or injured doing this.

Phase 2- After China transited to a technocracy. The government or the police will handle this. Everywhere there is surveillance. Police can arrive in minutes. Take the bus pickpocketer for example. It is very risky to pickpocket. For one thing, people no longer carry cash. For another, there are surveillance cameras on the bus. You and your whole gang are identified instantly.

As a matter of fact, street crimes have virtually disappeared in the last few years, especially premeditated crimes.

The prank/social experiment is very unrealistic. No one kidnaps a boy that big in the streets. It was an amusing thing to watch, as you can see the smile in one of the girls. They just did not know why was going on.


Where did this apathy originate? Certainly not in the Mao days. People then were taught to be unselfish, intervene everything and report unwanted behaviours. If the prank happened then, you would see a crowd running after the kdnapper.

[Peter UK]

The prank/social experiment is very unrealistic. No one kidnaps a boy that big in the streets. It was an amusing thing to watch, as you can see the smile in one of the girls. They just did not know why was going on.


I think that could only account for a percentage of the reactions. the narrator lived in China for years and witnessed this kind of apathy a great deal, which is why he's indignant about it. What he saw had nothing to do with social experiments which he himself is somewhat critical of.

There is further information in the video of true stories, one example where a child was left in the street after being knocked down. The child was repeatedly run over within an elapsed time only to die of multiple injuries because of lack of intervention, and it not being anyone's problem. I suspect this really is a substantial societal problem.

[syrwong]

The prank/social experiment is very unrealistic. No one kidnaps a boy that big in the streets. It was an amusing thing to watch, as you can see the smile in one of the girls. They just did not know why was going on.


I think that could only account for a percentage of the reactions. the narrator lived in China for years and witnessed this kind apathy a great deal, which is why he's indignant about it. What he saw had nothing to do with social experiments which he himself is somewhat critical of.

There is further information in the video of true stories, one example where a child was left in the street after being knocked down, He was repeatedly run over within an elapsed time only to die of multiple injuries because of lack of intervention, and it not being anyone's problem. I suspect this really is a substantial societal problem.

These apathetic and selfish behaviours are very common in big cities, and I think China is very bad in this regard. It could well be one of the worst. That said, it must be cautioned to draw conclusions from Youtube videos. Youtube is always a platform of propaganda. The pranksters could have easily picked the worst ones to show on Youtube, to emphasise their point, or simply to vilify China. Watching the pickpocketing pranks, my opinion is that in about 1/3 of the time, the victim would be informed by the bystander, based on my many years of experience in China. Not all of them are apathetic as is appeared in the videos.

It is also true that the Chinese treat foreigners better than their own in the case both are strangers, in much sense. This has historical reasons, as with many things. You do have to live in China to form an opinion of your own. Do not fall to a stereotype. It is very dangerous to form an opinion based on videos. Say, if I watch videos mostly from Youtube, I definite would hate those anti-vaxxers.

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[Open Minded Dude]

But this also happens in many 'Western' cities too, also seen from these staged 'experiments' (not a fan of them either). It is certainly appalling but it is really a China-exclusive problem?

[Peter UK]

But this also happens in many 'Western' cities too, also seen from these staged 'experiments' (not a fan of them either). It is certainly appalling but it is really a China-exclusive problem?

No, definitely not exclusive and yes, staged events carry with them their own concerns, but to be clear, it's not the apparent violence or criminality, petty or otherwise, that concerns him but the lack of response to such, which he has witnessed numerous times as a long standing inhabitant of the country. He has a 20 year history within China , speaks Chinese, and is married to a Chinese doctor. He is also, in my opinion, a fairly astute observer of life in China generally and has a lot of positive, good things to say as well. He is well aware, that the CCP, for example, is not in any sense the Chinese identity, but is fast imposing itself as such.

It depends on whether you afford his Channel and commentary any real credibility, having watched a fair bit of it, I would say he was pointing out something that is deeper within the Chinese psyche that probably isn't healthy. It doesn't however make them monsters.

[Open Minded Dude]

But this also happens in many 'Western' cities too, also seen from these staged 'experiments' (not a fan of them either). It is certainly appalling but it is really a China-exclusive problem?

No, definitely not exclusive and yes, staged events carry with them their own concerns, but to be clear, it's not the apparent violence or criminality, petty or otherwise, that concerns him but the lack of response to such, which he has witnessed numerous times as a long standing inhabitant of the country.

Maybe I was too short with words in my post above. I was indeed really referring to that lack of response to these events (staged or not) and all the public apathy and not that there's more violence and crime in China on the streets of a big city.

I think we might at least get similar results with similar footage showing apathetic, fearful or condescending passers-by with any criminal event in any Western city (US, Australia or America).

Also, if you live in a big city, again: anywhere in the world, you might constantly be scammed (e.g. by organised 'beggar' clans) or pranked each day, so you might indeed get apathetic or cautious to it in your reactions, especially if on a busy day on the streets and pedestrian zones you it might have to deal with the 5th in a row. So I think this could also happen here with 'us' in the West. It's not good and I don't want to excuse this behaviour but it might explain some of the reactions to the child asking for money. After a while you just fend off anyone because it is enough, at least for that day.

I am therefore not yet really convinced. While it might be a bit more extreme in China due to their mentality forged by living under an authoritarian state for decades and knowing nothing else, the difference to the 'West' is maybe not as huge as he wants to make us believe.

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