The Garden of Eden

[East Sun]

If, And, But...

Perhaps we are heading for our return to the Garden of Edan. Thrown out initially
because we/they did not listen to God that may have "lied" to us.

The serpent in the Garden (there must have been more than one) told Eve that
they would not surely die if they ate of the tree of knowledge or the tree of good and evil.
They did not die physically but maybe spiritually. The serpent must have known that.

Whether time is linear or not we may have a chance to go back onto the Garden.

If the God lied to them for whatever reason we may be able to find out why.

We could start again and this time maybe throw out the serpents who may be the same ones who are destroying us now.

I'm just speculating but it came to me last night when I could not sleep.
Often I have good ideas but can not remember them in the morning when I wake.

I don't remember what I thought last night in the same words exactly but I think it is
sort of close.

What do those who may be interested think? I'd be curious to know.

[amor]

I have read comments here and there about the original story being different. There are stories about Adam and some other female creation who was regarded by the story as not good in some way. Also, it seems to be an alligory. There is too much we do not know to invest so much in believing it. Perhaps someone here knows of surviving literature from the distant past that will shed light on the real and original story if it goes beyond an alligory.

[Eagle Eye]

The Garden of Eden was the place that God appointed for Adam and Eve to live therein, but not to eat from the forbidden tree. It was a test for the first humans to obey God and they failed.
(7:13) said, "Descend from the Garden, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.

God knows what He has created and what is in the begining of every cycle and what's in the end, but the creation doesn't know. Adam and Eve repented for their actions and it was accepted a second chance, but to be tested in lower level...and here we are.

The destination for the righteous isn't the garden of Eden, but the Paradise which is on the higher dimension and near the presence of God.

[Mashika]

The serpent in the Garden (there must have been more than one) told Eve that
they would not surely die if they ate of the tree of knowledge or the tree of good and evil.
They did not die physically but maybe spiritually. The serpent must have known that.

Oh no lol, "understanding and "knowing" are two very different things.

You "know" people die. But, do you "understand" what happens on their minds while they are dying? Can you look into their eyes and see what they are experiencing, second by second, until "the lights go out?"

Expand that into spirituality <3

[East Sun]

An awful lot is lost in translation, from Hebrew to Greek to English and other languages.
The snake/reptile becomes, in my interpretation a Reptilian who could speak freely.

Also, according to Jordan Maxwell as he studied the old Hebrew text the EL for God was plural,
more than one God. That makes sense to me.

The God who was in the Garden of Edan was not very God like as we see God today.
Maybe the Reptilian lied to Eve to cause she and Adam to disobey God so they would be thrown out of
the Garden.

[Eagle Eye]

In the Scriptures it's clearly mentioned, in many verses, that is one God only and also it's mentioned "Lord of the worlds", not only of this one.

[ExomatrixTV]

Some Fascinating Quotes related to 'The Garden of Eden' :

Hebrew "Garden of Delight," based on the Persian Heden or primal garden where the first couple were joined together as a bisexual being in the Golden Age. Like all images of the earthly paradise, Eden was located in the far west originally, where the sun went each night. That is why the Bible says known lands lay "cast of Eden" (Genesis 4:16).


Barbara G. Walker ... The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets.

--o-O-o--

Haste was made to position "Eden," the home of the biblical Adam, the first man of the first race. It was to be found in the East of course, in the Northern plains of India. It could be identified with the Pamir Plateau, while the river Pison of Genesis was linked with the great Indus River that began there. This zone was erroneously designated, by British-Israelites and others, as the cradle of the Aryans. The main reason why the Himalayan regions were selected for the original homeland of the Aryans was because the main creation myths refer to a great central "White Mountain" that existed in Eden. This central mountain was known as Meru. Indeed, the Pamir Mountains, and those nearby known as Amu Darya, are the highest ranges in the world. However, the word Meru actually connotes Egypt and the pyramids. The pyramid of Giza was the "white mountain" of the legends, and Egypt was the biblical Eden.


Michael Tsarion ... The Irish Origins of Civilization, Volume 1.

--o-O-o--


Biblical legend states that Harran was where Adam and Even went after their expulsion from Eden. Terah, the father of Abraham, is also connected with Harran. The moon god Sin was worshipped there.


Michael Tsarion ... The Irish Origins of Civilization, Volume 1.

--o-O-o--


The Edenic Garden contained not only the rudiments of human existence but also the other kingdoms which were to manifest. It was therefore a sort of superior earth in which forms of life developed and prepared themselves for physical incarnation, even as the wise in this world are building superphysical bodies in which to function when the race has finished its physical evolution.


Manly P Hall ... How to Understand Your Bible.

--o-O-o--

In the Biblical story, man dwelt in a Paradisiacal sphere before his fall into the mystery of generation. This Paradisiacal sphere is called a garden, and has been variously located by religious enthusiasts upon almost every part of the earth's surface. Eden is not, however, on the earth's surface, but above it, or, more correctly, in a higher etheric element which encloses the earth in a globe of translucent energy. The four rivers are the four streams of ether or energy which sustain the four kingdoms of the physical world - mineral, vegetable, animal, and human. Man physically is nourished by the vital ethers of nature. Man physically is nourished by the vital ethers of nature. These ethers now work through him, but in pre-Adamic times he possessed no physical body and these ethers formed an etheric body.


Manly P Hall ... How to Understand Your Bible.

--o-O-o--

The story of the garden of Eden and of Adam and Eve is but the sublimation of the story of the struggle of the Snake worshipping aboriginees of the Euphrates Valley against the gods of the Eloihim, who in Sumerian were term the "Ilu." The Garden there spoken of was Babylon "The gate of the gods" as the name means. Babylon surrounded by high walls was indeed a garden in the strict sense of the word for it was large enough to hold agricultural grounds as well as houses. Into this garden the gods took the proletarians or "forerunners of the gods" on probation, to make "like us." The Serpent priest or Satan warned them they would only be slaves. (The Pharaoh of Egypt was called a Dragon, Ezekial 29:3, and the soldiers of the Pharaoh were called Dragons. Thus it may be easily seen why the children of Israel were prone to worship the Serpent, the emblem of the gods from whence they came.) Such conditions might be almost modern comparatively speaking, had the Pilgrim Fathers invited the Indians into their villages "To make men of them or to make them in their own image." Indian Snake doctors and priests might advise the contrary.

Thus man, unwilling to follow the advice of the gods, was suffered to go without the fruits of the garden.


Henry Binkley Stein ... Thirty Thousand Gods Before Jehovah.

--o-O-o--

Returning to the Gardens, the Greek word Paradise is literally Para Deus or Dios, the Park of the Gods. It is a matter of written history that the Romans related that German Gods and Godesses dwelt in groves on the upper Elbe and on the northern islands. Most elaborately described were the Health resorts of the Priests of Aesculapius, the Greek God of Medicine, known today by all doctors. At these pleasant resorts, the patient placed himself wholly within the care of the God, and generally recovered, due to the sanitation, the mineral waters, the diet, etc., and should he have had an incurable disease he was told he had incurred the enmity of the God and could not recover his health. Such resorts as these were located in the mountains of Italy and Greece and even in central Germany and Austria.


Henry Binkley Stein ... The Axe Was God.

--o-O-o--

One remarkable feature regarding these gardens or parks is that they occupied the most desirable, the most healthful places, and that furnishes a clue in discovering them and distinguishing them from settlements of later times.


Henry Binkley Stein ... The Axe Was God.

--o-O-o--

The gardens of the Gods were in reality thousands of enclosed sanctuaries throughout Europe from Ireland to Asia Minor. The Enclosure, for such a word is about the only generalization fitting all instances, is identified by some hundred fifty names in different languages, all, to a degree, meaning garden.


Henry Binkley Stein ... The Axe Was God.

--o-O-o--

Eventually, the exodus of the Adamic race became known to the “Serpent Masters,” who grew furious and vengeful. This was the third time that their plans and exploits had been thwarted. First, they were banished from their home planet. Then after coming to a new one, they created a race to serve them, but which did not; and when they finally created the perfect servant, they found them permanently seduced away from their duties. The ire of the Atlanteans at this snubbing was so intense that they unleashed an atomic war on the “Sons of the Serpent” and their Adamic wards, now resident on Lemuria (Oceania). These latter were not unprepared, however, and being technically advanced, set up to defend themselves and retaliate against their evil adversaries on Atlantis. So, there was on Earth a nuclear war. It was an event that changed the face of Earth history. The war between the gods (the “Serpent Masters” and the “Sons of the Serpents”)


Michael Tsarion ... Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation.

--o-O-o--

However, something happened that thwarted their plans for a third time. The “Sons of the Serpents” on Lemuria found out what their fathers were doing and about the newly created race that had taken their place as unwitting servants to evil. It occurred to them that such experiments were wrong and that this latest servant race was, although ignorant, part human and, therefore, “cousins” to themselves. It was decided that emissaries of the “Sons of the Serpents” would make contact with the new race.

Members of the “Sons of the Serpents” entered the “Garden” to open dialogue with their cousins in bondage and spiritual ignorance. The male Adams were not that interested in the counsel of their visitors. But the females, the Eves, were. It is said that the Eves found the newcomers comely and attractive. The visitors told those Adams and Eves who would listen that they were being kept in a state of induced ignorance and servitude, but that it was within them to become “gods” themselves, and that if they left the garden and came to Lemuria (Oceania), they would be shown all that had been hidden from them and be awakened to their true natures. Finally, because of this intercession, a great multitude of the Adamic race did follow their wise visitors to their island paradise. They were taken to Lemuria by spacecraft.


Michael Tsarion ... Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation.

--o-O-o--

It should again be emphasized that Serapatatia was altogether honest and wholly sincere in all that he proposed. He never once suspected that he was playing into the hands of Caligastia and Daligastia. Serapatatia was entirely loyal to the plan of building up a strong reserve of the violet race before attempting the world-wide upstepping of the confused peoples of Urantia. But this would require hundreds of years to consummate, and he was impatient; he wanted to see some immediate results—something in his own lifetime. He made it clear to Eve that Adam was oftentimes discouraged by the little that had been accomplished toward uplifting the world.


Solonia ... The Urantia Book.

--o-O-o--

It must be remembered that Caligastia was still the titular Planetary Prince of Urantia, a misguided but nevertheless high Son of the local universe. He was not finally deposed until the times of Christ Michael on Urantia.

But the fallen Prince was persistent and determined. He soon gave up working on Adam and decided to try a wily flank attack on Eve. The evil one concluded that the only hope for success lay in the adroit employment of suitable persons belonging to the upper strata of the Nodite group, the descendants of his onetime corporeal-staff associates. And the plans were accordingly laid for entrapping the mother of the violet race.

It was farthest from Eve's intention ever to do anything which would militate against Adam's plans or jeopardize their planetary trust. Knowing the tendency of woman to look upon immediate results rather than to plan farsightedly for more remote effects, the Melchizedeks, before departing, had especially enjoined Eve as to the peculiar dangers besetting their isolated position on the planet and had in particular warned her never to stray from the side of her mate, that is, to attempt no personal or secret methods of furthering their mutual undertakings. Eve had most scrupulously carried out these instructions for more than one hundred years, and it did not occur to her that any danger would attach to the increasingly private and confidential visits she was enjoying with a certain Nodite leader named Serapatatia. The whole affair developed so gradually and naturally that she was taken unawares.

...Influenced by flattery, enthusiasm, and great personal persuasion, Eve then and there consented to embark upon the much-discussed enterprise, to add her own little scheme of world saving to the larger and more far-reaching divine plan. Before she quite realized what was transpiring, the fatal step had been taken. It was done.


Solonia ... The Urantia Book.

--o-O-o--

Nowhere in the Genesis account is there any mention, direct or indirect, of Satan's involvement, and yet it has become common practice for the Church to portray the serpent as an emissary of Satan, or even as Satan himself.


Laurence Gardner ... Genesis of the Grail Kings.

--o-O-o--

Since we know that El Elyon-Jehovah was synonymous with Enlil, the Garden of Eden story is a direct representation of the ongoing feud between the Anunnaki brothers. Enlil was insistent that humankind should be kept in ignorance, and should be maintained solely to toil and to bear the yoke of the Anunnaki. But Enki had other ideas: he was insistent that the black-headed people should be educated.


Laurence Gardner ... Genesis of the Grail Kings.


source (https://www.truthcontrol.com/garden-eden)

100% related:


William Bramley's - The Gods of Eden - chapters 1 - 12:

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William Bramley's - The Gods of Eden - chapters 29 - 41:

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[ExomatrixTV]

The Garden of Eden is a highly symbolic story – but it’s misinterpreted or not understood at all by many people, including many Christians. On a superficial level, it warns us about temptation, and how our desire for sensory pleasure or short-term gratification can lead us into suffering. On a deeper level, it highlights how the “God (http://wakeup-world.com/2015/05/14/god-mankind-and-delta-consciousness/)” of the Old Testament is a wrathful figure who punishes those who dare to evolve and develop their intelligence. This “God”, of course, is not the true “First Source” or “All-loving God” that many people sense and envision, but rather a distorted “God” intent on keeping his place as ruler in the hierarchy.

On another level, the Garden of Eden myth represents the Fall of Man, a highly significant event in humanity’s history where we “fell” from our hearts to our heads or to our guts. By this, I mean we moved out of heart center – the true leader and center of the body (http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/overcome-the-conspiracy-love-not-fear/) – and into a lower center not as fit for leading. Some say this is the head (due to our obsession with left-brain analysis and incessant thinking), some say this is the gut (due to our tendencies to act from lower state emotions like fear, greed and the desire for pleasure), but that’s not so important. The point is that rather than using our heart and True Self to lead us, we are using our brains, guts and Ego to lead us, which is a literal falling from grace.


https://i2.wp.com/wakeup-world.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/9-Solutions-for-Overcoming-Humanity%E2%80%99s-Original-Distortion-FB.jpg (http://wakeup-world.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/9-Solutions-for-Overcoming-Humanity%E2%80%99s-Original-Distortion-FB.jpg)
There is another sinister aspect to this story, of course, and that involves the snake. There is evidence that the Fall of Man was not the result of a momentary lapse of reason on the part of Eve and Adam, as it has been portrayed, but rather the result of a cold and calculated intervention by an outside force. I refer to the alleged genetic tampering (http://wakeup-world.com/2014/08/31/connecting-the-dots-on-humanitys-untold-genetic-history/) that occurred to early man, which is surely a cause for a deep and gaping collective primal psychic wound. Indeed, it is hard to imagine more of a violation than someone going in and messing around with your genetics, and disconnecting parts of it to suppress your full potential! Many researchers, authors, mystics and other people have referred to the original distortion as genetic intervention; some such as Barbara Marciniak have suggested that this is why humans now operate on 2-strand DNA instead of 12-strand DNA. It also explains why we have all this genetic material sitting there unused (a phenomenon which has led many scientists to brand it as “junk DNA” in their ignorance). Whether this genetic intervention was done by a literal reptilian race, or whether the snake represents us falling back to our reptilian roots (every human has a more primal reptilian brain underneath the mammalian brain or neocortex) is an open question, but there is no doubt that extraterrestrial Reptilian races exist, due to the research of people like David Icke, James Bartley, Barbara Bartholic, Barbara Lamb and many many others who have either exposed the reptilian theme running throughout the elite families, or have documented hundreds or thousands of actual contactee/abductee cases. For many reasons, it is hardly a coincidence that the snake or reptile is involved in the Fall of Man.


source (https://rainbowwaveoflight.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/9-solutions-for-overcoming-humanitys-original-distortion-wake-up-world/)

[East Sun]

In the Scriptures it's clearly mentioned, in many verses, that is one God only and also it's mentioned "Lord of the worlds", not only of this one.

Hi Iceberg,

There are many places where "God" told his followers, "I am your God, you shall have no Gods before me. He also said I am a jealous God demanding that he be worshiped and he only.

There were "gods" mentioned in Ezekiel who visited in a "chariot" from the heavens.

Also Moses met with a god who was different in my opinion from others mentioned in the scriptures.

They seemed to be extra terrestrial IMO.

[Eagle Eye]

There is a clear misunderstanding when it comes to aliens or other beings, because they have always been refered as gods because of their higher position then us, but has nothing to do with the Creator of the worlds, because even aliens or angels or other beings are a creation. The Scriptures only make clear some of the key moments, that we can get an idea of the reality that we live in, but it doesn't tell the details about involvement of aliens or other beings and how the story has gone. From the Scriptures we can acknowledge what is our purpose in here and why are we enemy to each other since the time of Abel and Cain. We need to be aware that living in this reality is in balance between good and evil and there are beings on each side, no one will fully overtake the other because the force of the balance wont let it, but we are here to live our life in the best way we can, to seek the truth, to help each other and to try to find the right path to salvation.

[ExomatrixTV]

Prime Creator is way too big for any "man-made and/or alien-made" religions and is beyond any label we use!

:wizard:



... and any "God" that needs or demands worship is a big huge red flag!



https://www.outsourcingadviser.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/red-flag.gif

[Wind]

As John wrote quite well there, the Garden of Eden has quite many meanings. It refers a lot to the original, innocent and pure state of humanity. I also think that it refers to Atlantean and pre-Atlantean times when Lemuria still existed. Once upon a time people were not as we are now, they were more like light beings. That's the destiny of humanity, to become more evolved and less dense beings once again if society isn't completely blown to bits in the next few decades.

I have felt that male presence of God, spoken to Him too and he certainly was omnipresent and part of me, existing in every atom that constitutes my being here, but I still think He wasn't the Ultimate Creator of everything. I just knew that in my being. That made me think that this our galaxy has it's own God, Logos if you will. Our bodies, the Adamic bodies were created in the image of "God" and they are vehicles for our spirits. Earth has it's history, but a great part of humanity has come from elsewhere too, Mars once was like Earth. Many warlike souls destroyed the who planet so many of them were brought here, I guess that's why this planet has seen so much warfare. Technological inventions are always turned into weapons, that's a strange obsession men always have with their extreme yang energy. So much spiritual warfare and experimentantions between different ET races, and the reptilians surely have played their part in dominating and manipulating this species. They are not the real rulers of this domain though, they just think so in their foolish, misguided arrogance.

There are deities, angels, demons, Gods, all part of the one Creator. Some are here in human form. The dark ones are the ones who deny their connection to the Creator and Love. The one Creator does not ask for anything, because it's Love in it's purest form. It is you and me, because ultimately there is no separation between "us".

[Mashika]

As John wrote quite well there, the Garden of Eden has quite many meanings. It refers a lot to the original, innocent and pure state of humanity. I also think that it refers to Atlantean and pre-Atlantean times when Lemuria still existed. Once upon a time people were not as we are now, they were more like light beings. That's the destiny of humanity, to become more evolved and less dense beings once again if society isn't completely blown to bits in the next few decades.

I have felt that male presence of God, spoken to Him too and he certainly was omnipresent and part of me, existing in every atom that constitutes my being here, but I still think He wasn't the Ultimate Creator of everything. I just knew that in my being. That made me think that this our galaxy has it's own God, Logos if you will. Our bodies, the Adamic bodies were created in the image of "God" and they are vehicles for our spirits. Earth has it's history, but a great part of humanity has come from elsewhere too, Mars once was like Earth. Many warlike souls destroyed the who planet so many of them were brought here, I guess that's why this planet has seen so much warfare. Technological inventions are always turned into weapons, that's a strange obsession men always have with their extreme yang energy. So much spiritual warfare and experimentantions between different ET races, and the reptilians surely have played their part in dominating and manipulating this species. They are not the real rulers of this domain though, they just think so in their foolish, misguided arrogance.

There are deities, angels, demons, Gods, all part of the one Creator. Some are here in human form. The dark ones are the ones who deny their connection to the Creator and Love. The one Creator does not ask for anything, because it's Love in it's purest form. It is you and me, because ultimately there is no separation between "us".

When i felt the presence of "God" i did not sense male or female, it was completely off that, it just "was". It felt tremendously powerful, in a way there are no words invented by any language that could describe it. It "permeated" across everything, so to speak. It only lasted for a little bit, like a minute or so, but it was enough to understand lots of things and see the world in a different way after. After it ended, i walked out and looked at people, and the streets, and buildings and cars passing by and all that, and i saw a different world than before, could not even begin to explain really

I don't know how or why it happened, but i have understood some things from that. And it has never happened again, i guess it's a one time chance. Glad to know you experienced that, and it kind of filters through on your posts and personality :)

By the way, i went to ask a preacher about it, and he looked at me like i was crazy, and then asked if i had any known 'mental' issues, so to speak lol, and asked to talk to my mom. I could not explain what happened well, it was impossible, he got angry i think, that he had not experienced something similar in his life, and he yelled at me and hit me on the head with a notebook because i refused to say i had imagined it.. talk about being a "father" and "guide" and all that stuff... lmao

:S

[Mashika]

Mars once was like Earth. Many warlike souls destroyed the who planet so many of them were brought here


In the The Martian Chronicles book, it reminds me of the moment when the kid says something like "you promised we would see martians" and the dad says look at the river, "he looked at the water and the martian was right there, looking back at him" or something on those lines :)

[Wind]

When i felt the presence of "God" i did not sense male or female, it was completely off that, it just "was". It felt tremendously powerful, in a way there are no words invented by any language that could describe it. It "permeated" across everything, so to speak. It only lasted for a little bit, like a minute or so, but it was enough to understand lots of things and see the world in a different way after. After it ended, i walked out and looked at people, and the streets, and buildings and cars passing by and all that, and i saw a different world than before, could not even begin to explain really

Then perhaps you were in the presence of the ultimate Creator. It actually sounds more profound than what I experienced even though what I felt was pretty darn amazing too. :)


I don't know how or why it happened, but i have understood some things from that. And it has never happened again, i guess it's a one time chance. Glad to know you experienced that, and it kind of filters through on your posts and personality :)

Well thanks. Everything happens for a reason I suppose...


By the way, i went to ask a preacher about it, and he looked at me like i was crazy, and then asked if i had any known 'mental' issues, so to speak lol, and asked to talk to my mom. I could not explain what happened well, it was impossible, he got angry i think, that he had not experienced something similar in his life, and he yelled at me and hit me on the head with a notebook because i refused to say i had imagined it.. talk about being a "father" and "guide" and all that stuff... lmao

I remember once, perhaps in my teens writing an email to a priest asking about some things. The thing however is that I was never really satisfied with the answers that religion or teachers gave. Sure they gave some guidance, but I always felt that something was missing or the message was distorted through a lens of dogma or whatever. That's the problem with science these days too btw, not just religion. Science has become a religion of it's own too, that's what close-minded belief systems create.

Am I a Christian? Yes and no, I was baptized as a child without my consent (obviously as babies can't protest much), but that has been part of my culture which is my current operating system. Yet I have been far more comfortable with Eastern teachings, because I lived there mainly in past (lives). I still wouldn't want to call myself a Buddhist or a Taiost, because I don't like to be put in a box. I always asked the question why? Why does anything exist when there could be nothing at all? Or what is God? Who am I? That's the greatest mystery there is. When I ask the questions, I never stop until I am satisfied and for that I need to comprehend the truth about the way things really are. That's my "problem" or quality.

I've had different kind of mystical experiences and there's a lot I could say about them, but I don't usually like to talk much about them, not even here although in recent years I have opened up a little more. There's two reasons mainly and I suppose it's because that I don't want to appear as anything at all, I'm only a truthseeker or truthsayer. First of all, because I often know that people have difficulties understanding some deep topics, it's just much easier to categorize someone as a mental case. Sadly I have known quite few people with real mental issues so I do know what's the difference. The second reason is that I don't want to appear as someone who is on a ego trip, because that's not the case. I know what I am and I'm no better or worse than anyone else.

You'd just think that some things are too weird or crazy to be real, yet they are very real indeed. Now I have been trying to become comfortable with fear too. I have experienced such profound fear (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115920-Fear&p=1445007&viewfull=1#post1445007) and terror in my life that I just can't allow it to affect my life anymore. I almost know it inside out. The thing is that I don't even like to talk about myself, but now I did it. Oh well! "All that we see or seem Is but a dream within a dream."

:offtopic:

[Mashika]

If, And, But...




Whether time is linear or not we may have a chance to go back onto the Garden.

Time is not linear, if you are/were able to travel in time, and you go 2 years into the future, then the point of time you were at is the past, right? And if you go 2 years back, then the point of time "in the future" is now the past, also



If the God lied to them for whatever reason we may be able to find out why.

We could start again and this time maybe throw out the serpents who may be the same ones who are destroying us now.

That's only if we assume the lie is not a lie within another lie

[East Sun]

Mashika,

When I say start again I don't mean start again back there. I mean start as we would if we were to go into a future
Garden and if there were Reptilians there now throw them out if they are the same as our present time entities.

Just to clarify about linier time, it means a continuous line in time. If you knew that already please excuse me.

[Mashika]

Mashika,

When I say start again I don't mean start again back there. I mean start as we would if we were to go into a future
Garden and if there were Reptilians there now throw them out if they are the same as our present time entities.

Just to clarify about linier time, it means a continuous line in time. If you knew that already please excuse me.

But that's what i meant to say, there is no "continuous line in time", it jumps around, it can go back and forward and things change in time, depending on what happens in between jumps. Just like i said, imagine if you have a coke and you open it, then go back in time two weeks and open it again, in "your" perceived past, what happened to the coke you opened in the "future".

The coke you opened in the future, is actually now your past, and the coke you just opened after traveling two weeks back, is "the now", is the same can of coke, "the coke of your future"?

Because you went ahead in a direction, your mind may see this as "i went to the past" but in true reality, you moved forward another direction, so whatever place you end up, that's the future for you, in complete, full reality. You did not get a couple weeks younger, or did you? So that's not "the past", it's the future

The perception of time, is a human thing, in the end. It comes from how you experience reality, you can go sleep and feel it lasted 20 hours, then wake up and realise it really lasted for one hour, but you experienced a dream that lasted for like what you thought was truly 20 hours.

It did not happen, but you spent the time there, on that "reality" that was only inside your brain all that time

Have you experienced that?

[East Sun]

No I have not. All my life time was linier and I am not sure if we can go back or forward except in real time.
Not in the normal course of our lives anyway.

[Merkaba360]

I just try to think of it as "there is only perception." Events/perception happen sequentially, but since all this manifestation is the cosmic sea serpent, things tend to change in certain ways, as the fractal (which looks much like a slithering snake) shifts, morphs. ITs like 'time' is a smooth rolling fractal, and not choppy or incoherent. Bare with me, this is hard to put into words. Lady Salvia can show you this in a very obvious way.

Keep in mind the garden of eden snake represents the manifested light show fractal we are seeing and being tricked and tempted by continuously. Hence, why the dragon, snake, sea serpent myths are so prevelant. So, Eve was too curious to taste the expereince of going in the apple/torus where the snake hypnotizes us with its magic.

It concerns me that we are being duped into thinking there are reptilians ruling over us. They chose that, because deep in our subconscious we know that we are mesmorized by the cosmic serpent fractal. Its possible that it is both the cosmic serpent and a reptilian race messing with us, but they love deceiving us. OR perhaps interdimensional beings who can change form, just use a reptilian form often to push that theme for whatever reason. Scary? Represents the Primitive reptilian brain of survival and dominance? Psychological warfare.

These possibilities don't seem to be considered by the David Icke's and whoever else is publically speaking about reptilians and such. I really wish I could have an interview with him :) I think he would agree that we must consider these possibilities. And I think it would be good for his reputation regarding his past talking about shapeshifting royals and stuff lol. It could be our third eye that is activating and seeing hyperdimensionally. And for some reason its reptilian. Symbolic ?

Back to the topic of time. If you could open a portal and go back to earth 65 million years ago or go to some other planet that currently has dinosaurs, you wouldnt know the difference. Because of associations, we would usually assume both are in the distant past. But one is time travel and one is space travel. But then again, its space/time, so, they are linked and time travel doesnt really exist. Its more like, what are we loading to be viewed on our 3D computer screen. So, we could reload the program of earth with dinosaurs on it.

But unless that movie 'file' is connected to the files of our timeline, then its not time travel and this timeline wouldn't be effected. Which is where the idea of creating a new timeline every time we time travel (reload a copy of a past space/time). So, reality is computer like and the creator is the ultimate video editor. lol One timeline can be a long movie of 100 million years or we can reload another reference point and start a new movie going forward from that point.

But that just begs the question, who has to keep playing all the roles of the trillions of life forms each time someone wants to reload the game. lol Since all is one, is it just the creator running it all. Then it kinda of seems like a lot of NPCs. Or it is impossible to reload the game, cuz that is the price of joining an MMORPG game called Earth Life. haha

It's all a memory though. So, time has a lot to do with the order sequence of our memories. If I start to astral travel every night, those memories change my knowledge in my waking life. So, those memories/times become inserted in the correct sequence of my life. I had a dream of the future maybe 2 years ago. It was like the end of time way into the future. IT was so bizarre and technologically advanced i could barely explain it. It was a bit like terminator but not robots and the weapons were more like altering space or something. It was pretty terrifying, but sorry i cant really remember too much.

Anyway, that dream would be from the year 82,945,354,192 A.D. or whatever lol. But it happened in the year 2019 and became a part of my memory (barely :).

So MAshika is correct, by a certain definition, we can never go to the past. Cuz its always just the next experience. Unless our memory is wiped. Which is another interesting can of worms. 1, 2, 3....Discuss !! :)

[Merkaba360]

I had a "god" encounter. It was night time and i was laying on the beach looking at the sky. "God" was the whole reality, but it was like a powerful omnipresent force or something. Every question I asked, I had the answer before i finished asking it. But i didnt hear a voice in my head. It just shifted my perception of the outer reality (what I see out there) and made some internal shifts in my head and fellings. And the answer was just sort of obvious. There may have been some thoughts pushed into my head along with all of that.

Its hard to explain but all these limiting filters blocking us from 'seeing' I think can all be 'shifted' and thus removed. Whatever these slides are in the mind, they remove the block.

Now was this the source or some subset deity. I don't know. The gnostics said the Demiurge was the delusional god. Did source trick it to think it was source? lol The demiurge sounds a bit like Yahweh. Is this the cosmic serpent, snake, the lord of the holographic fractal of light - lucifer? the machine elves, archons, etc. Perhaps its all the same thing.

Then maybe the ALL is the invisible spirit hidden subtley behind all that. In other words, the Demiurge is the god of the Computer screen and it thinks thats all there is. But the ALL is the whole computer that understands some deeper things going on in the background....muhuhuhuhahahaha

And another killer question is, as part of the ALL, why am i compelled to have so much desire to know these things. lol I guess the art of the ALL that wants to know itself manifests in us a strong feeling, curiosity and sometimes obsession to know. It seems both a necessity to achieve this knowledge/awareness and a hinderance....Just relax..

[ExomatrixTV]

"a (lesser) God" (not Prime Creator) needs/demands obedient hierarchical worship from Reptilians for a reason.

Reptilians (http://tinyurl.com/Reptillians-Update-2021) are most likely a result of harsh and severe conditions on planet Earth millions of years ago ... that is now completely irrelevant!

We humans may be a result of other Alien Genetic Interventions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4BrorTglWY) that fits the new current conditions of Planet Earth.

In short ... reptilians came from a era of "survival of the fittest" was considered "the only way" ... meanwhile we humans suppose to be beyond their myopic tunnel-vision!

cheers,
John


See also: Reptillians-Update-2021 (http://tinyurl.com/Reptillians-Update-2021)

[BoR]

I have meditated for quite some time about this subject. Here is how I view it:

First of all the Creator never wanted his creations to worship or obey him. Men was walking with the Creator and therefore experiencing pure harmony and bliss. Since that is all one could ever wish for, there would be no need to ‘rebel’ against the Creator or wanting something to happen that would ruin the blissful existence. It was the devil who made men doubt the intentions of the Creator, because the devil wanted to have his own kingdom, one where he could rule. The devil was the first creation of God who used the free will that was built within creation, to create a world where the creations could live without necessarily walking with the Creator. He only needed souls to inhabit his claimed part of creation.

And so he seeded doubt in the consciousness of (wo)men. Was this really all there was to it, or is living in danger and insecurity much more exciting? The devil convinced (wo)men that that indeed would be much more exciting and give more opportunity to ‘grow’. Denying the fact that the creation already was perfect and the need to ‘grow’ was completely unnecessary.

Men chose the hard lesson. I am also convinced other creations did not and are still walking with the Creator, and experiencing an eternity of bliss. The Creator knows men will return and this will be when men is fed up with the ‘excitement’ of danger and insecurity and longs to be reunited with the Creator. The devil is doing everything to keep these souls within its control, which is what we are seeing now. But a lot of us have already decided. And since free will is built in within all of creation, also in the ‘devil’s kingdom’, which is in fact the devil’s delusion, because all of creation is the Creator’s, there is no way the devil can hold these souls once they have made up their minds. Whether there’ll be heaven on earth or after our earthly death, we will return.

But...also a lot of souls here still hang on to the ‘excitement’. They are the ones who choose to stay in this consciousness of the ‘fallen world’ for a while longer and they will either be transported to another place or they will stay here and the ones who chose they have had enough will go to a blissful place.

So what is repenting for your sins all about? It simply means you recognize you have been deceived. That, and only that, was your (ancestor’s, and in many cases also your soul’s) ‘mistake’. It was not the Creator who suffered from this mistake, but only you, until you finally understood.

There are certain examples of people’s choices to see where those souls are in this situation:

- you want relationships with bad boys (or girls!) because you love the excitement it brings...
- you are that bad boy/girl.. and you love that excitement, even if breaks some hearts, as long as you have fun
- you are of any adult age, and you think other people should do this or that, and if they don’t, government, other people or you should force them, because you are right and they are wrong
- you like to listen to or make disharmonious music with aggressive lyrics, because you like to rebel against.. uhmmm.... harmony?


Just some examples.

All the above also relate to suffering. Therefore you are then not at the point where you have had enough. And you can stay as long in this circle as you’d like to. To step out of it is to acknowledge that you have been wasting your time by denying a much better experience for yourself and others. That is wat repenting for your sins means in my view. A sin is not a sin against the Creator, but a sin against creation, by denying part of what it has to offer, and against yourself.

Now, there was one point where men had gone so far into the illusion, that men needed a conscious soul who was walking with the Creator to go down to this fallen world to give men this message: if you can’t believe life can be far far far better, I am here to tell you that it can. And if you believe you have become so corrupt, that the Creator will never ‘take you back’, I am here to tell you that you are wrong. And if you choose so, know that your sins will have been forgiven before you ask. (Knowing that all the suffering has made men feel unworthy of the Creator, he couldn’t just say “forgiven by yourself”.)

Edit: his name was Jesus by the way.

[BoR]

And just to clarify, the situation is far more complex of course, but sometimes it helps to reduce it to a story as simple as possible, so that you can paint the big picture without having to write 100 books of a 1000 pages each 🙂

[ian33]

https://phys.org/news/2016-05-evidence-ice-age-refugium-arabia.html
..monotheism appears to be an elaborate story to control the masses..i view those stories as the main stream media of that time..not unlike the modern control stories eg covid that people get religious about(many people)
...before monotheism we had the stars as gods/deities...i note that THUBAN was north pole star leading up to the time of the biblical patriarchs..thuban a draco star with the dragon wrapped around the north pole..polar stars dont rise or set, so were viewed as immortal...so the dragon/winged serpent was revered at that time(closest to pole around 2800 B.C.)........judaism went to great lengths to stamp out the worship of these visible 'gods', so its not surprising that they were demonised in favor of the invisible god..
..looking at the evidence many ancient haplogroups from the ice age survived and mutated, so were not wiped out by angry god, despite being depleted by natural events..
just some thoughts, im not saying im right, how could i, as not religious

[East Sun]

I do not see myself as a sinner. I'm in my seventies. If I do no harm to any senescent being where is the sin?

The Catholic Church told us we were sinners as kids. We went to confession to tell our sins to the Priest. WE did no one any harm. Adults had to do the same. Where I grew up we were innocent hard working people who got married
and went to Church and lived a wholesome life.
A prayer we were told to say was to call ourselves sinners and ask for forgiveness. We believed what we were told.

Early in life I left home and did not follow the Church' "teachings" and did not feel guilty about that.
Again. if you do no harm where's the sin?

[Jim_Duyer]

If, And, But...

Perhaps we are heading for our return to the Garden of Edan. Thrown out initially
because we/they did not listen to God that may have "lied" to us.

The serpent in the Garden (there must have been more than one) told Eve that
they would not surely die if they ate of the tree of knowledge or the tree of good and evil.
They did not die physically but maybe spiritually. The serpent must have known that.

Whether time is linear or not we may have a chance to go back onto the Garden.

If the God lied to them for whatever reason we may be able to find out why.

We could start again and this time maybe throw out the serpents who may be the same ones who are destroying us now.

I'm just speculating but it came to me last night when I could not sleep.
Often I have good ideas but can not remember them in the morning when I wake.

I don't remember what I thought last night in the same words exactly but I think it is
sort of close.

What do those who may be interested think? I'd be curious to know.
\
From my own translations I have determined that what "died" was their intellectual innocence. They were from that point forward able to understand the library of writings in Eden, and even to escape with a few examples, only to later bury them to survive the flood. If you read the translations carefully, and this is supported by other scholars and not myself alone, you will discover that there was one tree in the Garden, and not two. The tree of life was the idea of a life of innocence, and thus it was actually "the tree of life and knowledge", one tree. It's only in later translations into English that this became confused.

I often obtain insight while I sleep. I now have a tape recorder near my bed to capture what I remember when I first awaken. It's usually some type of knowledge that I was searching for when awake. I have often wondered if I was being "given" it, perhaps. But by whom I am not sure. But it is powerful and worth recording. Good luck to you in your journey towards discovery.

[Jim_Duyer]

An awful lot is lost in translation, from Hebrew to Greek to English and other languages.
The snake/reptile becomes, in my interpretation a Reptilian who could speak freely.

Also, according to Jordan Maxwell as he studied the old Hebrew text the EL for God was plural,
more than one God. That makes sense to me.

The God who was in the Garden of Edan was not very God like as we see God today.
Maybe the Reptilian lied to Eve to cause she and Adam to disobey God so they would be thrown out of
the Garden.

What Maxwell doesn't mention, is that not only were they plural, they created the first version of man, the Neanderthal type, and the second creation, by Yahweh, was of the Cro-Magnon types.
Elohim, said to be some 70 in number, created the first versions or oldest types of mankind.
They created man in their image. Since there were 70 of them, and some were of various
types, sizes, colors, inclinations, etc., and each created a man in his or her image, we have
the various mixes we find on Earth after the time of Eden. Makes more sense than Darwin, and
explains the variations quite well. If that can be taken as being racist in any form, I am sorry,
I don't mean it to be at all. And in any event, all were equally man (and women).

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The Gods of Eden is simply a must read. Excellent.

[East Sun]

Thank you Jim for your response.

Scripture and religion is extremely complicated with so many people having so varied 'takes' and
individual beliefs, some totally set and others very flexible. I've been both but now it could be almost anything
we can imagine and will probably change in the future.

E.S.

[East Sun]

I neglected to mention Original Sin in my previous post because I never thought much about but I must say that I don't believe in it at all.

Just today I stumbled on the writer Karl Giberson who believes as I do.

To me there is no original sin.

Apart from that If you kill a person or destroy someone or many people you could call it sin but you know you have done a terrible wrong. And there is karma and reincarnation waiting for you eventually.

In your life here on Earth you, if you are found guilty, you will pay the price as you should.

[Bill Ryan]

Stan Deyo took the biblical story literally — and back-calculated that it had to have been located in what is now the Ngorongoro Crater in Tanzania, a well-known and very rich wildlife reserve. (I'm as sure as I can be that he's all wrong, but his logic is very interesting. :) )

Here's his [rather] epic lecture on the subject. He now offers tours there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR3Up9l1HMs
And here he is with an abbreviated audio-only summary on Coast to Coast AM.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFdnjMA4Jbo

[East Sun]

Thank you, Bill for those two videos. I watched most of the first one and will get back to it and the
second one later.

[xidaijena]

I do not see myself as a sinner. I'm in my seventies. If I do no harm to any senescent being where is the sin?

The Catholic Church told us we were sinners as kids. We went to confession to tell our sins to the Priest. WE did no one any harm. Adults had to do the same. Where I grew up we were innocent hard working people who got married
and went to Church and lived a wholesome life.
A prayer we were told to say was to call ourselves sinners and ask for forgiveness. We believed what we were told.

Early in life I left home and did not follow the Church' "teachings" and did not feel guilty about that.
Again. if you do no harm where's the sin?

As human beings, we have sins and then we were born on Earth to pay the debt.
Sin, means Karma. What we did in our past lives affects what we will have and do this life.
Hope you can understand what I mean.
Enjoy your day.

[xidaijena]

Hi friend, plz allow me share below article on your post:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~


五、《圣经》宣扬的上帝不是真正的上帝



V. The God in the Bible is not the Genuine Greatest Creator


首先，我们要肯定的是，《圣经》是以色列民族智慧的结晶，它忠实地记录了犹太民族的历史，最大限度地解释了神魔与人类的关系，为人类指明了前进的方向。

First of all, we have to admit that the Bible is the accomplishment of the Ephraim which loyally records the Jewish history, explains the relationship between the God, Devil and human beings to the furthest degree, and gives the direction the human beings should take.

《圣经》与《古兰经》、佛经、《道德经》是人类智慧的宝库，是人类的宝典，是教导我们如何做人、如何向高层生命空间发展的永恒有效的法宝。

The Bible, the Koran, the Buddhist Scripture and the Tao Te Ching are the eternal and effective treasures and collections of human wisdom, teaching us how to behave and develop into the higher level of life space.

《圣经》开宗明义讲的那句话是真理，但用神圣的袈裟盖住的东西不一定全是圣物，穿上神圣的袈裟的人也不一定全是主持。

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”. The first sentence in the Bible did tell the truth. But the things covered by the cossack may not be the holly things. And the people wearing the sacred cassock may not be the abbot.

《圣经》有一个问题，那就是它宣扬的上帝并不是真正的上帝。

The problem with the Bible is that the God it introduces is not the genuine Greatest Creator.

我们已经知道，上帝有八大特征：唯一、无定形、中性、无明、公正、仁慈、超能、智慧。智慧主要表现在建立了宇宙秩序、设计了生命程序、知晓过去未来。

We have known that the Greatest Creator has the 8 features. The Greatest Creator is sole and only, amorphous, neutral, mysterious, impartial, merciful, supremely powerful and wise. The wisdom of the Greatest Creator is revealed through its establishment of the Universe order, design of the life program and knowledge about the past and the future.

那么，《圣经》中的上帝是否具备以上这8大特征？

Then, does the God in the Bible have the above-mentioned 8 features?

我们举几个例子来说明。

Let’s explain this with examples.

亚当夏娃的背叛。

The Betrayal of Adam and Eve

《创始记》中说，亚当夏娃受蛇的教唆，吃了（《圣经》中的）上帝不允许他们吃的分别善恶树上的果子，因而违背了（《圣经》中）上帝的旨意被逐出了伊甸园。

According to the Genesis, Adam and Eve were instigated to eat the fruit on the Wisdom Tree forbidden by the God in the Bible. Because they have violated the order of the God (in the Bible), they were repelled out of the Eden.

这个事件说明：《圣经》中的上帝：a.无能；b.无远见；c.不公正。

It indicates that the God in the Bible is a. incompetent; b. improvident; and c. impartial.

无能表现在他一开始就是个失败者。他创造的第一对人就背叛自己，还谈什么超能。

He is incompetent because he was a loser at the beginning. The first couple of human he created betrayed him. So can we still say it is supremely powerful?

一个经常失败的“人”能让我们信服吗？洪水淹死了绝大部分的人类，以后的人类又如何呢？还是不听他的话，摩西十戒是《圣经》中的上帝的指令，但人类遵守了几条？一条也没有认真遵守，《圣经》中的上帝似乎对人类没有 办法，唯一的办法是威胁了再威胁：若不怎么怎么样，就一定要如何如何。几千年了，从一开始到如今，人类还是那个样子，难道就再没有什么办法了？难道还有什么别的力量制约着这个至高无上的上帝？若是这样，难道上帝不 是唯一的？人类几千年了仍然与您背道而驰，您拖拖拉拉在等待什么？

Can we still believe in a “person” who often loses? The Great Flood had killed most of the human beings. What happened to them afterwards? They still wouldn’t listen to his words. The Moses Ten Commandments are actually the directives of the God in the Bible. Can you tell me how many of them are obeyed by the human being? Actually not even one. The God in the Bible seemed to know nothing about how to control the human beings. The only measure it takes is to voice warnings and threats against the human beings. Thousands of years has passed, the human beings remain the same. Is there no means to control the human beings? Or is there some other force constraining this Almighty God? If this is the case, is this God not sole or only? For thousands of years, the human beings have been violating hisorder. What is he waiting for?

《圣经》中的上帝的无远见表现在不知道亚当夏娃要背叛自己，不清楚自己创造的东西的未来发展趋势。无法预知过去未来，你这个上帝能靠得住吗？若地球要飞出太阳系，您却一点不知，您如何拯救人类？连人都管理不了，您 如何管理得了神佛仙魔？您又如何管理庞大的宇宙？

The God in the Bible is improvident because he didn’t know that Adam and Eve were going to betray him or the development trend of what he had created. Is this God, who is not able to predict the future or the past, still reliable? If the Earth is going to get out of the Solar System and this God knows nothing about it, how can he save the human beings? How can this GOD administer the deities, Buddha, celestial beings and Devils when he found it difficult to control the human beings? How can he manage the spacious Universe?

《圣经》中的上帝的不公正表现在不辨是非，不讲道理。

The God in the Bible is impartial because it cannot tell wrong from the right and because it is unreasonable.

亚当夏娃为什么要背叛自己？原因有三：一是自己创造的亚当夏娃的基因结构有问题，或者说不完美，自己创造的东西反过来制约了自己，令自己愤怒生气，这就象一个建筑师辛辛苦苦盖了一幢房子，工程刚刚完工房子就塌了下 来，并砸了自己的脚，应该怪房子呢？还是应该责备自己？

Why would Adam and Eve betray the God in the Bible? There are three major reasons. First, the genetic structure of Adam and Eve had faults, or was imperfect. The life created by this God was now its own constraint. This angered the God very much. It is just like the house built by an architect who put every efforts was fallen and hit his own feet. Is the house or the architect that should be blamed?

背叛的第二个原因是蛇的引诱和教唆。亚当夏娃是人，而蛇背后的力量是魔鬼撒旦，人的能量和智慧是无法与魔抗衡的，不去惩罚罪魁祸首撒旦，却把满腔怒火降到亚当夏娃的身上，把他俩逐出伊甸园，这公正吗？如果一个强奸 犯强奸了一个八岁幼女，不对强奸犯绳之以法，反而怪罪小女孩长了阴道，抵抗力太弱，这公正吗？

The second reason they betrayed is that they were instigated and seduced by the snake. Adam and Eve are humans while behind the snake was the Devil Satan. The energy and wisdom of human beings can’t match those of the Devil. This God didn’t punish the Devil Satan. Instead, it imposed inflictions on Adam and Eve and drove them out of Eden. Is it fair? If a rapist raped an 8-year-old girl, would it be fair to blame the girl for her sexual organ and weakness instead of bringing justice to the rapist?

背叛的第三个原因是，也是最主要的原因是，那棵该死的分别善恶的智慧树。是谁把它栽到了伊甸园中？栽它干什么？在小孩子们的吃饭桌上放一颗有毒的糖果，这不是蓄意制造“此地无银三百两”吗？一方面给青春少女们不断 地放影黄色录象，一方面又假惺惺地要她们保持贞操，这难道是一个有道德的人的所为吗？导致亚当夏娃背叛的难道不就是在伊甸园中载那棵智慧树的阴险毒辣的“人”吗？

The third reason of betrayal, which is also the most important one, is the damned Wisdom Tree that can tell the good and evil. Who has planted it in the Eden and why? It’s just like putting a poisonous sweet on the dinner table for the kids. Or it’s like playing the porn video for the young girls while teaching them to retain their innocence. Would a moral person do such a thing? Isn’t this “person” who planted the Wisdom Tree in the Eden has caused the betrayal of Adam and Eve?

再说，一个能创造出宇宙的人，除了把亚当夏娃逐出伊甸园外，再没有其他办法了吗？犯了一次错，连个改正的机会都不给，这公平吗？一次犯错，终生有罪吗？

Besides, does this God, who had created Adam and Eve, has other measures to take rather than driving Adam and Eve out of the Eden? Is it fair not to give them a second chance simply because they have made only one mistake? Does one mistake justify their life-long sins?

耶稣到人间来主要是为人“赎罪”。因为按照《圣经》的逻辑，人都有“原罪”，这“原罪”是从哪儿来的呢？是从人类的祖先亚当夏娃遗传来的，而亚当夏娃的“罪”是因为他们吃了那棵该死的分别善恶树上的果 子导致的。

Jesus came to the Mortal World to atone for the human beings’ sins. According to the Bible, all the people have their “original sin”. Where does the “original sin” come from? Actually, they are inherited from Adam and Eve, the ancestors of human beings, whose sins were formed because they had eaten the fruit on the damned Wisdom Tree.

我们一出娘胎，就背负着亚当夏娃遗传的“原罪”，这个“十字架”背的可太沉重了。这种逻辑推理的结果是：“贼的儿子永远是贼，”“罪犯的儿子永远是罪犯，”地、富、反、坏、右的子女永远是黑五类，“皇帝的儿子永远 是皇帝，”难怪人类的历史上，特别是封建时代，“一人犯罪，要株连九祖，”难怪“一人得道，要鸡犬升天，”难怪皇帝不轮流坐，要让三岁的无知小孩继承皇位，原来这些都符合《圣经》的逻辑。

When we are born, we have the “original sin” inherited from Adam and Eve. The “cross” on our back was much too heavy. According to this logic, “the son of a thief is always a thief”, “the son of a criminal is always a criminal”, and “the son of an emperor is always an emperor”. That’s why in ancient China, in the feudal period in particular, “If a man committed crime, all his family members would be sentenced to death”, or “If a man attained the Tao, even his pets ascended to Heaven”. This also explains why the thrones can only be passed on to the next generations of royal families. This is because it complies with the logic in the Bible.

要说有罪，首先是您《圣经》中的上帝有罪，撒旦有罪。仅仅为了亚当夏娃，却让人类历史上的上百亿人跟着受罪，还讲人道吗？为什么不把亚当夏娃当时处死，再重新造人？难道造一个人对《圣经》中的上帝那么 难？

If somebody has sins, the God in the Bible and the Satan sined first. Is it humanitarian to inflict on billions of humans throughout the history simply because of the wrongdoings of Adam and Eve? Why not executing Adam and Eve and creating a new pair of humans at the time? Is creating a new couple so difficult for the God in the Bible?

人生来是有罪的，这就是为什么每个人来人间要受苦受罪的缘由。但这个罪决不是从祖先那儿遗传的，而是每个人前一世自己造的。人若没有罪，就成仙、成佛了。

All the people are born with sins. This is why each of us comes to the Mortal World to endure the sufferings. But the sins are not inherited from our ancestors. They are made by oursleves in the previous cycle of life. If we don’t have sins, we would all have become Buddha or celestial beings.

埃及十大灾殃。

Ten Plagues of Egypt

《出埃及记》中记载着：当摩西和亚伦以《圣经》中的上帝的名义要求埃及法老允许他们让色列人离开埃及时，被法老拒绝了。结果，《圣经》中的上帝给埃及人降下了十大灾殃：（1）。尼罗河水变成了血水，河里的鱼都死了 ，河水开始腥臭；（2）。青蛙从尼罗河里跳出来，布满了埃及全地，遍地腥臭；（3）。让埃及遍地的尘土都变成了虱子，爬到了人和牲畜的身上；（4）。让成群成群的苍蝇败坏埃及；（5）。用瘟疫杀光了几乎埃及人的所 有牲畜；（6）。让埃及人身上长毒疮；（7）。降了一场罕见的冰雹；（8）。用蝗虫将冰雹打剩的绿色植物全部吃光；（9）。三天的黑暗笼罩了埃及；（10）。杀死了所有人和牲畜的头胎。

According to the Exodus, when Moses and Aaron, in the capacity of the GOD in the Bible, asked the Egyptian Pharaoh to let the Israelis leave Egypt, they were refused. Consequently, the GOD in the Bible imposed 10 plagues on Egypt. 1. Plague of Blood. The water of the Nile will be changed into blood. The fish in the Nile will die, and the river will stink; the Egyptians will not be able to drink its water. 2. Plague of Frogs. The Nile will teem with frogs. They will come up into your palace and your bedroom and onto your bed, into the houses of your officials and on your people, and into your ovens and kneading troughs. The frogs will go up on you and your people and all your officials. 3. Plague of Lice.The dust of the ground became lice, lice came upon men and animals. All the dust throughout the land of Egypt became lice. 4. Plague of Flies. The houses of the Egyptians will be full of flies, and even the ground where they are. 5. Plague of Livestock Death. The fifth plague of Egypt was an epidemic disease which exterminated the Egyptian livestock; that is, horses, donkeys, camels, cattle, sheep and goats; 6. Plague of Boils. The sixth plague of Egypt was Shkhin. The Shkhin was a kind of skin disease, usually translated as "boils".; 7. Plague of Hail. The seventh plague of Egypt was a destructive storm; 8. Plague of Locusts. Locusts will devour what little you have left after the hail, including every tree that is growing in your fields.; 9. Plague of Darkness. Total darkness covered all Egypt for three days 10. Death of the Firstborn. The tenth and final plague of Egypt was the death of all first born in Egypt — no one escaped, from the lowest servant to Pharaoh's own first-born son, including first-born of livestock.

若说埃及法老不服从上帝的旨意，因而上帝惩罚埃及也是可以理解的，但是，把埃及人的和牲畜的头胎都杀死，就有点过分了，就有点不讲道理了。埃及皇帝不听从于你，你就惩罚他算了，为什么要降罪于普通老百姓？更有甚者 ，把处在社会最底层的如驴般推磨子的婢女的孩子也不放过，也要杀死，这样的上帝还有仁慈之心吗？这简直是灭绝人性的魔鬼行为。

It is understandable that the God punished Egypt because Egyptian Pharaoh wouldn’t obey his order. However, it was unreasonable and went too far to kill the first-born of all humans and animals in Egypt. You can punish the Egyptian Pharaoh for his disobedience. Why inflicting on the common people? Even worse, the God would kill the kids of the girl slaves working as donkeys in the lowest rank. Can we still say the God behaving like this merciful? It was behaving without humanitarianism just like a Devil.

更可恨的是，法老不让以色列人离开埃及的主要原因是《圣经》中的上帝使法老的心刚硬。十大灾殃未降之前，《圣经》中的上帝已经做了手脚，《出埃及记》7章3节记载：耶和华对摩西说：“我要使法老的心刚硬，也要在埃 及地多行神迹奇事。”

Even more abominable, the Pharaoh of Egypt wouldn’t let the Israelis leave mainly because the God had hardened the Pharaoh’s heart. Before the Ten Plagues came, the God in the Bible had done something. According to 7:3 in the Exodus, Jehovah told Moses, “And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.”

这就是说，《圣经》中的上帝已经给埃及人下了套子，只是变着法儿在整他们。8章19节说：“法老心里刚硬，不肯听从摩西、亚伦，正如耶和华说的。”9章35节说：“法老的心刚硬，不容以色列人去，正如耶和华籍着摩 西所说的。”10章20节说：“但耶和华使法老的心刚硬，不容以色列人去。”10章27节说：“但耶和华使法老的心刚硬，不肯容他们去。”11章10节说：“摩西、亚伦在法老面前行了这一切奇事：耶和华使法老的心 刚硬，不容以色列人出离他的地。”

It means the God in the Bible had prepared a trap for the Egyptians, trying to find an excuse for the following plagues. In Exodus 8:19, “Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.”. In Exodus 9:35, “And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses.” In Exodus 10:20, “But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.” In Exodus 10:27, “But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.” In Exodus 11:10, “And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.”

让以色列人离开埃及的是《圣经》中的上帝，使法老的心刚硬，多生事端，不轻易让以色列人离开埃及的也是同一个上帝，《圣经》中的上帝在搞什么名堂？一方面鼓励老百姓叛乱造反，另一方面又给政府当局通风报信，鼓励政 府无情镇压，这样的人难道不是阴谋家、两面派吗？

It was the God in the Bible who let the Israelis leave Egypt. But it was the same God who had hardened the Pharaoh’s heart and sparked the conflicts so that the Israelis couldn’t leave Egypt easily. So what the God in the Bible was doing? It was encouraging the people to revolt while telling the authorities about the revolt and encouraging the government to oppress them mercilessly. Isn’t such a person a schemer and two-faced?

这就是上帝的模样吗？！

So is this the image of the Greatest Creator?

以色列人是上帝的子民。

The Israelis Are the People of the Covenant

《圣经》分旧约和新约两部分，耶稣诞生之前的为旧约，诞生之后的为新约。所谓“约”，就是指契约、合同、协议。整部《圣经》主要是上帝和以色列人之间的契约、合同、协议。

The Bible has the Old Testament and the New Testament. The part telling what happened before Jesus was born was called the Old Testament and the part telling things after Jesus was born was the New Testament. The Testament actually means agreement, covenant, and contract. The whole Bible is the agreement, covenant and contract between the Israelis and the Greatest Creator.

这就出现了一个悖论，全世界大概有三千多个民族，为什么上帝单单与以色列人立约，其他的民族难道不是上帝的子民？若是，上帝就不可能单单与以色列人立约，而置其他民族于不顾；若不是，那么，其他的民族是从哪儿来的 ？难道亚当夏娃不是全人类的始祖，仅仅是以色列人的祖先？以色列人是上帝所造，难道世界上其他民族的人是魔鬼所造？

So here is a paradox. There are over 3,000 nations in the world and why the God has established the Testament with the Israelis? Does this mean the other nations are not the subjects of the God? If they are, why has the God only established the Testament with the Israelis while neglecting all the other nations? If they are not, what’s the origin of all the other nations? Are Adam and Eve only the ancestors of Israelis and not the other nations? The Israelis are created by the God. Does it mean the other nations are created by the Devil?

从创世到大洪水为1656年，从大洪水到出埃及共857年，从出埃及到以色列建国为396年，从建国到以色列人被掳往巴比伦共510年，从被囚巴比伦到重建耶路撒冷为152年，从重建耶路撒冷到耶稣诞生约为450 年，从耶稣诞生到今天共2003年，人类的历史，若依《圣经》来算，大约为6376年。

There are 1,656 years between the Genesis and the Great Flood. There are 857 years between the Great Flood and the Exodus. There are 396 years between the Exodus and the founding of the Israeli State. There are 510 years between the founding of the Israeli State and their captive to Babylon. There are 152 years between their imprisonment in Babylon and the reestablishment of Jerusalem. There are 450 years between the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the birth of Jesus. There are 2003 years between the birth of Jesus and today. So according to the Bible, the history of human beings is about 6,376 years.

据《圣经》记载，大洪水后，地球上只有8个人生存了下来，即挪亚夫妇俩和他们的三个儿子儿媳。也就是说，4700年前。地球上除了挪亚一家人外再没有其他人。

According to the Bible, there were only 8 people survived the Great Flood on the Earth. They were the couple of Noah, their three sons and their wives. It means that 4,700 years ago, there was no one else living on the Earth except for the Noah family.

这就带来了一系列的问题，首先要问的是，美洲印第安人是从哪儿来的？根据大陆漂移学说，美洲大陆与其它大陆的脱离不可能是在4700多年内发生的，那么，挪亚的后代是如何从中东地带到达美洲的？再说，大洪水后挪亚 一家只有八口人，不可能八口人马上就分奔离析，挪亚也不可能让其中的一个儿子儿媳穿越寒冷的西伯利亚再冒险渡过白令海峡去美洲吧。

But this has brought some other questions. First, where do the American Indians come from? According to the theory of Continental Drift, America drifted away from the other continents. But it couldn’t happen within 4,700 years of time. Then how the Noah family reached America from the Middle East? After the Great Flood, there were only 8 members in Noah family. It was impossible for them to get dispersed. Noah couldn’t let one of his sons and his wife to cross the freezing Siberia and the Bering Strait to get to America.

第二个要问的是非洲的黑人是从哪儿来的？从遗传学的角度来讲，黑人、黄人、白种人都有各自的祖先，一对纯种的白人无论如何也繁衍不出一个黑人或黄种人来，即使说进化，以色列人也不可能在4700年的时间内进化出黑 人和黄人来。再说，根据达尔文的进化学说，进化的必然是优胜劣汰，难道能写出《圣经》的以色列人能进化成美洲黑人吗？无论如何安慰黑人兄弟，黑人从智力上并没有优胜于以色列人。

Second, where did the African blacks come from? From the perspective of genetics, the blacks, yellows and whites have their separate ancestors. A couple of pure whites couldn’t generate the blacks and yellows. Even the evolvement couldn’t produce the blacks and yellows in 3,700 years of time. Besides, according to Darwin’s evolutionary theory, the survival of the fittest, could the Israelis able to write the Bible evolve into the African blacks? The blacks are not the matches of Israelis in the intelligence no matter how we exaggerate their abilities.

再说中华民族，皇帝的出现约在4600多年前，大禹治水的事迹约在4200多年前，从时间跨度上来说，挪亚的后代不可能在大洪水100多年后就来到中原，即使能来到中原，400年的时间内能繁衍出那么多的人跟随大 禹治水吗？

Now let’s come to the Chinese nation. The first Chinese King was born about 4,600 years ago. The story of Dayu‘s Flood Control happened about 4,200 years ago. It was impossible for the future generations of Noah to come to mainland China 100 years after the Great Flood. Even if they did it, how could they produce so many people who followed Dayu to control the flood?

中华民族是从哪儿来的？大禹治水是否可理解为治当时的大洪水？

Where does the Chinese nation come from? Are the Flood Control by Dayu were just the Great Flood?

从《圣经》的角度来讲，绝对是不能承认生物进化学说的，因为一旦承认了生物进化学说，无疑，就是否定了上帝创造人类的理论学说，但若否定了生物进化学说，就没有办法解释黑人和黄种人的来历，就不能说亚当夏娃就是人 类的共同祖先。

From the perspective of the Bible, the biological evolutionary theory could never be accepted. But once we accepted the theory, it would deny the theory that the God created the human beings. But if we denied the evolutionary theory, there was no way to explain the origin of the blacks and yellows and we can’t say Adam and Eve are the common ancestors of all human beings.

该隐的故事。

The Story of Cain

亚当和夏娃被逐出伊甸园后生的第一个孩子是该隐，第二个孩子是亚伯。“有一日，该隐拿地里的出产为供物献给耶和华；亚伯也将他羊群中头生的和羊的脂油献上。耶和华看中了亚伯和他的供物，只是看不中该隐和他的供物。 ”为此，该隐由于嫉妒杀了他的亲弟弟亚伯。

The first child of Adam and Eve, after they were driven out of the Eden, was Cain, followed by Abel. “And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.” Out of jealousy, Cain killed his brother Abel.

我们要问《圣经》中的上帝，你为什么只看中亚伯的供物，而看不中该隐的供物？该隐杀亲兄弟亚伯，难道不就是你制造的麻烦？你若不厚此薄彼，怎能引起该隐的嫉妒？你创造的人为什么就这么多的麻烦，亚当夏娃不听话，而 他们的儿子相互残杀，以你上帝的能力就解决不了这些问题？或者这是你故意的安排？

We want to ask the God in the Bible some questions, “Why do you favor the offerings of Abel instead of those of Cain? Is Cain killing his brother Abel not your fault? If you had never favored one of them, how could it arouse the jealousy of Cain? Why the people created by you had so many troubles? Adam and Eve wouldn’t follow your orders and their kids killed each other. As the God, you don’t have the ability to solve these problems? Or is it what you have designed?

该隐是杀人犯，理应严厉惩罚，可是你却对该隐说：“凡杀该隐的，必遭七倍报应。”

Cain was a murderer and deserved the punishment. But you told Cain, “Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.”

这是什么是非标准？！你不惩罚罪犯也就罢了，可如果别人惩罚罪犯，却要给予七倍的惩罚，你这不是包庇罪犯吗？

So what kind of the justice standard is it? It is hardly understandable not to levy the punishment on the criminal. But it is even more understandable to have revenge of sevenfold on those who would punish the criminal. Is it protecting the criminal?

难怪人类几千年的历史充满了血腥、充满了犯罪和罪犯，原来是你《圣经》中的上帝在那里保护着罪犯。

That’s why the few thousand years of human history were full of blood, violence and crime. The God in the Bible has been protecting the criminals.

“凡杀该隐的，必遭七倍报应。”该隐是罪犯，那么我们完全可以理解为：“凡杀罪犯的，必遭七倍报应。”

“Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” Because Cain is a criminal, we can fully understand it as ““Therefore whosoever slayeth the criminal, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.””

由此看来，还是当罪犯好，当罪犯起码有人保护，当好人不但没人保护，反而要遭七倍报应。

We can conclude we had better become criminals because the criminals are protected and the good men are not. The good men have the risk of being revenged sevenfold.

先知与梦。

The Prophet and the Dream

《圣经》中有大量的先知和梦。先知都是上帝在人间的代表，有不可猜测的智慧和能力。这就让我们这些普通智力的老百姓如坠云雾山中分不出东西南北。如果有人说：“我是先知。”我们是信呢？还是不信？如若不信，我们岂 不是在与上帝作对！如若信，这家伙会不会是盗用先知的名义，在“挂羊头，卖狗肉”？

In the Bible, there are a large number of prophets and dreams. The prophets are the representatives of the God in the Mortal World. They have unimaginable wisdom and power, which sink the average people with average wisdom into the mist. If someone says, “I am a prophet”, should we believe him or not. If we don’t, we are standing against the God. If we do, how can we know the prophet is a fake or not?

再说梦，《圣经》中有大量的梦和有关梦的解析，尤其在《启示录》中，当然，能解析梦的都是先知。这同样给我们带来了数不清的困惑。

Now let’s talk about the dreams. There are many dreams and dream analysis in the Bible, in particular in the Revelation. Of course, those who can analyze the dreams are all prophets. But they have also brought a lot of puzzles.

首先，你这个先知到底做没做这个梦？你做的梦他人看不见，你会不会瞎编几个梦骗我们？若确实做了梦，你的解释是否正确？你会不会恰好把梦解释反了？

First, has the prophet had the dream at all? No one could see his dream and he could well compose some dreams and cheat us. If he really had the dream, was his analysis correct, or was he analyzing the dream on the reverse aspect?

请问《圣经》中的上帝，在“旧约”中你总是与人直接对话，为什么后来就不直接与人类对话了？是不是其他星球上的亚当夏娃也不服管教了？你为什么要用梦的形式警戒人类？为什么不清楚明了地说明事情的真相？你难道没有 这个本事？你难道没有时间？难道你有什么难言之隐？

I want to ask the God in the Bible, in the Old Testament, you used to talk directly with the human beings. Then why you stopped doing so later? Are the Adam and Eve on other planets also disobeying your orders? Why would you warn the human beings in the form of dreams? Why not tell us the truth directly? Don’t you have the ability to do so? Don’t you have time? Don you have some secret sorrow?

我们还可以举出许多事例来说明《圣经》中的上帝不具备唯一、无定形、中性、无明、公正、超能、仁慈、智慧这些属性。

I can give many other examples to state that the God in the Bible does not have the features of being sole and only, amorphous, neutral, mysterious, impartial, supremely powerful, merciful and wise as genuine Greatest Creator has.

可以肯定地说：“《圣经》中的上帝不是真正的上帝！”

So we can affirm that “the God in the Bible is not the genuine Greatest Creator”.

~~~~~~~~~~~

This article was written by Xuefeng. You can just have a read. If you think it is fake or wrong, you can just ignore it.

Have a nice day and hugs.:handshake::sun:

Jena Xidai

[East Sun]

Hi Jena'

Thank you for your very knowaligable reply.

You could probably tell that I do not believe in most of the Old Testament.
It is very hard for people to go against what they were taught as kids. Especially if they have never studied and
analyzed Scripture. The questions posed in your post are very thoughtful and I enjoyed some of the questions that
I had not even thought about.

As for the New Testament I have come to believe that Jesus was from an other place than Earth and may or may not
come back again. Either way his teachings were far more advanced than those of the Old Testament.

I do not believe in Original sin. Other sins are of a personal individuals concern.

Recently there have been a lot of sightings of UFOs that have extraordinary
capabilities. They have been visiting Earth for a long time. They may be the
"Gods" mentioned in many places including the Old Testament.

Some people believe in a Hollow Earth where entities live and that they are the ones who we see and supposed to be ETs.
Anything is possible.

East Sun

[mozo33]

Man was formed from the ground that was outside of the garden, which makes it in picture something outside of Eden ...


Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.

And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed.

[mozo33]

just to throw it out there ...

The man that tills the ground was formed out of the dust and put into a garden that he could not tend or keep.

there is a difference between tending and keeping ones garden and tilling the ground thereof ...

[XelNaga]

Hello Friends,

I'm not sure why most people see the serpent as a bad guy, and why is the fall from eden considered as something bad.

Let us look at it this way: Adam and Eve, while in the garden of eden, were more like animals than humans, they were like yahweh's pets.
They had zero self-awareness, they were naked without even realising they are naked (just like animals).

After they ate the apple, they have gained self-awareness, they moved from animals phase into human phase.
The serpent has in a way set them free.

We also know by his own words and deeds, that yahweh was a rather nasty creature (he has, in my opinion, zero connection to The One Creator of All).
It makes more sense that such a vile creature as yahweh would hold pets, or even prisoners. Who knows what his plans were if Adam and Eve stayed there.

That story also tells us two important things about yahweh: he is neither omnipotent (he created both us and the serpent, and we both turned out a bit "defective", as far as he is concerned) nor omnipresent (he wasn't aware that Adam and Eve ate the apple until he has seen that they have covered their private parts).

What would each of you choose, if you were given the choice right now:

1. to live this life like we are living now, a hard and harsh life, but an interesting life, where you have self-awareness and ability to think what you want and do what you want;
2. to live in a perfect garden, but to live like an animal, with a low level of intelligence and almost no self-awareness and free-will.

Kind regards..

[Pam]

Prime Creator is way too big for any "man-made and/or alien-made" religions and is beyond any label we use!

:wizard:



... and any "God" that needs or demands worship is a big huge red flag!



https://www.outsourcingadviser.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/red-flag.gif

Such a good point, Exo. Think about it. My observations in this realm are that humble, balanced people really have little or no response to compliments and honors attributed to them. Those with narcissistic tendencies are very much effected by honors and complements. In short order they are quick to let you know their credentials and honors.

A true ruler or leader is in service to those that they are leading. A narcissistic leader demands that they are shown honor and respect and accolades and is arrogant enough to demand complete and total obedience. Even if those are given at a fear based level. They require the external world to confirm the greatness that they claim to possess.

What kind of god would punish the offspring of the offenders for generation after generation. A very cruel and sociopathic god. It really is a matter of common sense.

What kind of god would demand to be worshiped? A very insecure, narcissistic god, a very controlling god. If this said "god" really was the creator, I doubt they would endow mankind with any sort of free will.

[mozo33]

there is God, and then there is the perception of God ... and why Jesus said that all that came before him were thieves and robbers ...

[mozo33]

the serpent plays a necessary role in raising up a son who is accepted, and why God chose an Esau or Israel chose a Dan or Jesus chose a Judas ...

[Jim_Duyer]

I’ve been working on re-translating the Barton Cylinder, which includes a Sumerian creation myth, for the past month. Sixty hours of dedicated work per week and I am still only two-thirds done, if that tells you anything about the complexity of the work involved.

I found a great number of what I consider to be “sloppy” translations done to date, so I thought I should look at it further – and I am glad that I did. It will all become part of my upcoming book – “Our Governments Talk to Extraterrestrials, and They Have For Over 70 Years” – and this is the final chapter to be included in it. So I am working as fast as I can to get it done.

The Barton Cylinder is a clay cylinder with Sumerian writing on it, dating to the mid to late 3rd millennium BC, which is now in the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology.

The cylinder is inscribed with a Sumerian cuneiform mythological text, and it was found at the site of Nippur in 1889 during excavations conducted by the University of Pennsylvania. The cylinder takes its name from George Barton, who was the first to publish a transcription and translation of the text in 1918 in “Miscellaneous Babylonian Inscriptions”. Samuel Noah Kramer referred to it as The Nippur Cylinder and suggested it may date as far back as 2500 BC. From the sign choices employed and the terms themselves I believe that it was rewritten in 2500 or so but from much earlier materials. It references the earliest days, and the time prior to the Sumerians moving into the land between the rivers – so it’s the Origin story of the Sumerians themselves as well. It was probably originally recorded about 5500 BC, in my experience.

One of the lines that I worked on nearly gave me a heart attack when I read the translation. Could this represent evidence of plagiarism on the part of the Biblical scholars?

George Aaron Barton (12 November 1859 – 28 June 1942) was a Canadian author, Episcopal clergyman, and professor of Semitic languages and the history of religion. And he himself, in reference to his translation of this cylinder seal, believed that it was the source for some of the Biblical material written many thousands of years later. Barton goes so far as to suggest that several concepts within the text were later recycled in the much later biblical Book of Genesis. Barton also finds reference to the tree of life in the text, from which he claimed: “As it stands the passage seems to imply a knowledge on the part of the Babylonians of a story kindred to that of Genesis (Genesis 2:9) “.

Most of the lines relate historical events, but some are simply “wisdom” text type entries, offering advice and suggestions on how to live and enjoy an upright life. These are similar to the sayings found in the Books of Psalms and Proverbs of the Old Testament. And the rest relate to the creation or origin of the Sumerian people and the creation of hybrid human-alien beings, but I must save most of that for the book.

I’m interested in the truth more than sensationalism, so rather than putting this out as some type of evidence that the Bible authors knew the Sumerian texts and used parts of them for their books, in all fairness I am pointing out the opposite – because the truth is that the evidence shows this as resembling an amusing wisdom statement and not the origin of the Serpent and Eve in the tree of the Garden of Eden.

Here is my actual source work, for you to examine and test as you wish. The Univ. of Pennsylvania has an online website with their Sumerian Dictionary project available to all, as does UCLA and Oxford, who offer their contributions to the total.

This is the line 10 from Side A of the Cylinder text, in Sumerian:

10. muš dam te esz2-mu-gin7

And this is the “official” translation done by the scholars (the en: indicates their translation into “english”)

en: like …

So, that’s all they got from those six symbols of information. Sure. A meaning of “like …”, and nothing further. Well, they probably had the heart attack I got at first, and decided to back off and say nothing at all about the line. Apparently they decided to omit it from our knowledge, to create yet another “nothing to see here, move along” moment. But that’s not science, which should be, above all and foremost, about the truth. And here is that truth, in my own translation:

There are six symbols, and the definitions of each of them I have taken from the Univ. of Penn, Oxford and UCLA publications themselves. All of these are peer-reviewed definitions.

The note of “Ed IIIa” means that the definition comes from the period of Sumerian history that dates to the time of the suspected date of writing. Because if you accept meanings that were applied much later in time, you will not only be inaccurate but can be prosecuted for creating a timeline mismatch.

muš ED IIIa, = “snake”.
dam ED IIIa, = “spouse”.
te as gal5 ED IIIa, = “a policeman; a demon”.
eš2 = eše2 & še3 (same sign for both).
še3 ED IIIa, = “to call by name”.
eš2 ED IIIa, = “rope, thong, string”

mu as geš ED IIIa, = “tree; wood; a description of animals”.
mu ED IIIa, = “name; line of text; son” [lineage, ancestry, bloodline].

gin7 = dim2 (same sign for both).
dim2 ED IIIa, = “to create, fashion, make, to bring forth”.

At first glance I took this as:
SERPENT + SPOUSE + A DEMON it was called + TREE + TO CREATE – BRING FORTH

And since this is a “creation” text, we can assume that the “to create, make, bring forth” indicates children, and especially since we have the optional meaning of name, line of text and son, which indicates lineage, ancestry, bloodline – the “lines of text” are mentions of actions accomplished by ancestors or living relatives. These deeds would become a future “line” in a text.

So Barton thought it represented a source for the later Bible story, and here we have the wise and cunning serpent, the tree, the spouse (Eve) and a creation (child) who might represent a “demon” or bad seed. Like Cain?

The reason I bring up Cain is that in Louis Ginzberg’s “The Legends of the Jews” it relates that the angel Samael, who is the great Satan, appeared to Eve after she and Adam had been expelled from the Garden of Eden. He came in the form of the serpent, and … well, you know the kind of things the world’s second human and a fallen angel in serpent form get up to.

But here’s what I have found with experience: there is no such thing as an ‘accidental’ influence when it comes to society- simply unexpected ones. Thus the possibility that this mention in texts that were extant at the time may have “influenced” the later (by many thousands of years) Biblical events of Genesis is fairly plausible. But it does not signify a “theft” of another authors work.

I should mention that, to the Sumerians, there were no demons. Demons are a Christian and Judaic term somewhat in align with the Jinn of Arabic mythology. To the Sumerians these were spirits, ghosts, phantoms, etc., the type of beings that could be called up by a trained person and questioned. Like the famous Witch of Endor did in the Old Testament.

The Sumerians, as did the later Greeks, had their sky, atmosphere or upper regions, but not the “heaven” term that is understood today. And their “deities”, far from the Christian sense, were simply “sky beings” or “sky gods” if you will.

But we can see why Barton, an Episcopal Minister but in his early life a Minister of the Quaker religion, might have added the term “demon” to the Sumerian Dictionary project.

And here’s why that line does not equate to the Biblical Eden serpent idea, and what I believe is actually meant by it.

For the Serpent’s wife: your children will be like the Ghost in the Tree.

Thus this is a simple wisdom-type statement of advice, from an early Sumerian scribe.

In other words, if you marry an evil or vicious person, a poisonous person we might say, then the children that you have together, rather than being memorialized on seals and on historical monuments, will be like Spirits in the Trees – scaring the little ones, but without the power to accomplish anything of substance themselves. They will not put brick upon brick, nor lead armies into battle – but will remain deplorable bullies, like their father.

They will perhaps be remembered, but in an infamous rather than famous way. If you marry a powerful but evil person, don’t expect your children to be anything like a paragon of virtue – garbage in – garbage out, as we say in modern times.

Truth is not about “fairness”, nor is about being sensitive to the “feelings” and “faith” of others – unless it conforms to the evidence. But whenever we do run across something that was obviously sidelined by traditional scholars who feared the consequences of revealing that truth, we should go as far as we can towards righting that wrong.

I believe that the Bible does not need to be “protected” by our translators. Just read.

Your own thoughts and comments are certainly appreciated.

[Gwin Ru]

...

... thanks for the hard and arduous work!

If you have not heard of him, you may be interested in the work of Russell Gmirkin (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) who ends up concluding that most of the current bible was derived from Sumerian texts... translated into Greek... and only then... transcribed into Hebrew.

[ExomatrixTV]

William Bramley's The Gods of Eden - Commentary and Read by Josh Reeves (chapters 1 - 12):

YZ0paGMwm6k


2 Gods Of Eden Author William Bramley interviewd by Linda:

l1PI8BETm1c



William Bramley - Gods of Eden - Red Ice Radio:

yE42V5xhYsM

[Jim_Duyer]

Thanks for the kind words. I thought my book on Covid at 250 pages was a pile of work, but I am quickly learning that I may need to split the next one into two or three parts! But I hope to have it all done soon. I had not read Mr. Gmirkin, but I will - he's very correct in his conclusions, as far as my 12 years of study tells me. I gave it the benefit of the doubt - in addition to ancient Sumerian I also mastered proto-Hebrew. But the evidence is very strong - they were searching to make a name, and they were nomadic herders, so they had not a lot of choice except to borrow from the existing libraries.
Update = sorry, checked out Gmirkin to some extent, and I can not agree with his idea of an invention of Plato. But I will still read what he has to say.

[Jim_Duyer]

William Bramley's The Gods of Eden - Commentary and Read by Josh Reeves (chapters 1 - 12):

2 Gods Of Eden Author William Bramley interviewd by Linda:



William Bramley - Gods of Eden - Red Ice Radio:



I recently learned that another author - Jim something or other, commented that Bramley took most of his info from the Church of Scientology. With their founders CIA and Naval Intelligence connections, it's not surprising that the govt. came to the same information as my many years of research did. I still like Bramley, who has since left the "Church". If not already I am sure to be on their list of outstanding humans, ha ha.
His book dovetails with my research - which tells me that the Govt. does indeed know what I know, and used the Scientologists so that they could obtain their own source of "confessions" - jealous of the Catholics I imagine.
Having Tom Cruise and others tell their deepest secrets has paid off I see - based on the latest politics.
Bramley exhibits no obvious agendas - and I still tout his book whenever possible - it's a classic.

[Jim_Duyer]

I should relate that I have two sources of evidence in the form of the most ancient form of Sumerian writing - the pictographic type that was popular some three thousand and more years even before Cuneiform - that the Visitors did not create mankind, but rather created hybrids. They say "the good ones were taken back to the home system" and the other few remained in Sumerai. I know the two systems - one of the Goat people of Enlil (evil ones) and the other system of Enki and the Sheep group - the good guys. And I also know the planet that Enlil came from - all from their texts. I have also found support recently for my once hypothesis that the current visitors are "returning". So now its a full-fledged and evidenced theory. Interesting times coming very soon.

[Jim_Duyer]

I won't bother to open another thread, since this is related to this same tablet translation.
On one section it actually describes the sky-gods, and in that section they were referring to the evil group, which they refer to as "The Dark Ones". It's a fairly detailed description, from roughly 5000 BC, so it is interesting.

You won't find too many images of Enkidu, the sidekick of Gilgamesh - they like to show you the ones where he looks very normal.

But here is one that is earlier, and it looks very much like what the tablet describes:

http://paleoaliens.com/enkidu.jpg

And yes, he does have a weird angle to his arms and body stance, and yes he does look like the "lizard" people of Ubaid period, very close to the same era in Sumeria. So here we have direct evidence, textual in nature. of a lizard looking people connected to Enlil's group, the Dark Ones. However, they also say that the good ones connected to Enki were normal looking.

Since they took the hybrids back to the planet group of origin, this begs the question of = how much would a human hybrid be worth on their local market, with the understanding that they might be able to change their future generations into something more resembling human beauty and not something under a rock?

And of course, are they still doing this business?

[Vicus]

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEhuDCzAzKaVZ4xqe6T7edQjnURgO89vL83So0aq3tf6_VInB4KPdVGG7TQVrlZz2WHXDNMKCgFyEH4r7bt2wrvbqbCguLSh bAnJTTmWLbxSgiJPu8SnxVQ9d_khzmNX-AKKzjcJGlzX78WhYil2jVl3X6rHrIfihw7dWsHTGi9VvZO_WA_AoEc=w414-h530

[SpookyMulder]

Thank you Jim for the work you have started, it looks and sounds awesome.

I just passed my copy of "gods of eden" to a dear Reiki Master friend of mine to add to her library as I did with many of other books. A library where others can borrow and read from, it's a classic.

[Jim_Duyer]

Thank you Jim for the work you have started, it looks and sounds awesome.

I just passed my copy of "gods of eden" to a dear Reiki Master friend of mine to add to her library as I did with many of other books. A library where others can borrow and read from, it's a classic.
You are most welcome - thanks for the kind words.
Yes, it should be shared. I recommend it whenever I can.

By the way - did you ever hear about how the author was attacked,
by the powers that be? They certainly went out of their way to dig up
some petty deal and make it into something much bigger - and yet at
the same time they let people go without much punishment in Calif. ,
unless it hits a soft spot.

[Anu Raman]

1. Oral Tradition
2. Written Tradition

Anything that was written, had an previous oral counterpart. For thousands if not millions of years, oral tradition reigned prior to being written.

What's interesting about this, is that Oral tradition seems to repeat throughout generations of mankind. You do this with your friends and relatives, ever so often.... When it was first written, did it actually follow the oral tradition routine? Did it repeat?

In my opinion, It did. There was once upon a time that Man did not have a written language. What changed?



The books you know of, today, whether if it's the bible, koran, etc, they all have a basis in repetition. Manipulative repetition is heavy in it as well. In some stories, the oral tradition is heavily manipulated into recent modern events.

Belief is a powerful thing.
Discard it... read it as it is without belief.
You'll find it compelling to be an entirely different story.
That's all it is.. a story...

Answers are only given to those who truly seek...

[Jim_Duyer]

1. Oral Tradition
2. Written Tradition

Anything that was written, had an previous oral counterpart. For thousands if not millions of years, oral tradition reigned prior to being written.

What's interesting about this, is that Oral tradition seems to repeat throughout generations of mankind. You do this with your friends and relatives, ever so often.... When it was first written, did it actually follow the oral tradition routine? Did it repeat?

In my opinion, It did. There was once upon a time that Man did not have a written language. What changed?



The books you know of, today, whether if it's the bible, koran, etc, they all have a basis in repetition. Manipulative repetition is heavy in it as well. In some stories, the oral tradition is heavily manipulated into recent modern events.

Belief is a powerful thing.
Discard it... read it as it is without belief.
You'll find it compelling to be an entirely different story.
That's all it is.. a story...

Answers are only given to those who truly seek...

I find your comment intelligent and extremely insightful.
I agree that they can, and are, destroying our moral values and fiber itself with purposeful intent.
Thank you. And yes, I believe that this was part of a much, much older oral tradition as well.

[Eagle Eye]

Even if Genesis tells about the rivers names, it doesn't match with the real location of the Garden. Maybe the actual river Euphrates has been named similarly as the name of river in Genesis, but that doesn't mean it's the same river.
The Quran has this verse:
[7 : 13] (God) said, "Descend from the Garden, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.

Descend from the Garden it means that they were in a elevated place. That means two possibilities: if it's a spiritual interpretation it can be in another dimension or it means that it was around a mountain. Knowing the fact that Adam was created from clay and on this planet it was given high authority, it's most probable that the Garden was here too.

[Eagle Eye]

..........