If the power grid goes down... then what?

[Bill Ryan]

This isn't (a) posted to be alarmist, or (b) assuming that most reading this won't be very well aware of the potential issues.

But for some, it might just be useful, even just as a prompt to thinking through all the 'What Ifs'. It's just 16 mins long, containing a lot of basic information and common-sense suggestions. It's US-focused, of course, but might well be relevant to others anywhere else.

https://brighteon.com/cb6ae71e-997a-44d3-ad13-df5f51e4b37f

cb6ae71e-997a-44d3-ad13-df5f51e4b37f

[Sunny-side-up]

If the power grid goes down Bill, well ill say good bye to you and everyone now :(

Haven't watched that vid yet, is it hopeful?

STRANGE watched this last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af_Hj0MDBBQ

[Dick]

I’m preparing already, have 14 solar panels on the roof, only problem is that they don’t work if the electricitygrid is down, then the inverter doesn’t work.
There is a solution for it, you need an inverter that’s used in rv’s or boats, and you need car or truck battery’s.
It’s not cheap, but you always have electrcity (depending on the sun and your battery capacity)

Be prepared, thats the least you can do.

[haroldsails]

Thank you for this timely thread. A friend and I were kicking this very subject around just this morning. Between the broken supply chain, the expected financial market collapse, and the grid going down ("when not if"), life as we knew it, is over.
I'd like to think I'm not hysterical, or overreacting when I suggest that some serious planning is in order right about now. It's pretty obvious that the wings are coming off.
Family, and self preservation is what this is all about now, and at this point we should consider all the left/right BS to be useless distraction and counter productive.
Only guessing, but I'd bet that our illustrious leaders have a long established plan for themselves. It is we who turn the squirrel wheel who do not have our backs covered. For us it's gonna be anarchy!
Time to organize, meet your neighbors, talk about gardens, who can contribute what (things/labor/ideas), who has special needs, all that sort of community building.
Find your tribe, before the SHTF.

[Bubu]

been living off grid since a teenage mostly vacationing or camping. Recently I have experienced moving off grid with my more than 120 chicks and 20 pekin ducks with few tool all loaded in an 8 seater SUV. But I had the corrugated sheets for roofing shipped in advance. We ( me and my teenage buddy) arrive in a place with nothing but small 6 by 8 foot cabin with little wall cladding good only to house half of the animals. No electricity no water. So the first thing we did was to lay the 120 meters PE pipes from source. We slept on the car for a week until a suitable shelter was built. The entire 29 days I did nothing but construct cages and the 10 by 20 foot cabin which serves as shelter for the entire family of 9 people last Christmas. Doing 12 to 14 hours work each day, excluding the kitchen. My only source of power are 3 small solar panels with a total of 25 watts for lighting and charging my mobile and a rechargeable drill which I barely use. I will say its a lot more fun than in the city and that is considering I have barely time to sit down or nap. Construction is almost done so I expect when I go back after new year, Life would be a lot better. A year from now its going to be a dream come true with my food forest going. I'm going to have electricity soon and that is because I have a lot of electric toys. But from experience, I am pretty sure its going to be fine without the grid.
The control system is done via the grid. Power, communication etc. The grid wont collapse because the control system will collapse with it. Imagine people unable to watch TV and listen to the lies and nonsense of governments and their bosses

[eagle0027]

Personally i live on a boat with a sweet little diesel genset..no solar yet.
Not to sidetrack the thread ..my bigger intrest is a mass internet / sattalite down via solar flare emp etc.How are the holders of crypo(let alone ant didgital based buisness) now being so widly promoted going to do any kind of commerce???????

[Bubu]

Personally i live on a boat with a sweet little diesel genset..no solar yet.
Not to sidetrack the thread ..my bigger intrest is a mass internet / sattalite down via solar flare emp etc.How are the holders of crypo(let alone ant didgital based buisness) now being so widly promoted going to do any kind of commerce???????

well imagine people not using any form of money. People are free of control. You can expect the controllers to do everything to hold the control system in place internet included.

[Bubu]

The most feared scenario of the controllers is people finding alternatives to mainstreams. Grid collapse, any form, will drive people to find alternatives. So I strongly suggest, forget all the grid collapse scenario its not going to happen. And if ever it happens, cheer up because the good guys are winning and the world is on its way for the better.

[Jamie]

Well I guess the shock to the system will be quite a big one, with a lack of electricity.

That said, probably the most beautiful and lovely times I've experienced in my life have been when sitting around a simple camp fire...
there's something just so peaceful about it... with its heat, its beauty & its simpleness... sitting around with others.

[mozo33]

you will appreciate a flushing toilet much more after ...

[Ernie Nemeth]

Everyone knows that almost any motor can be turned into a generator, right? All you need do is turn the shaft with a prime mover force, like wind or water. It is not as efficient as a true generator but it will work.

[Jamie]

Everyone knows that almost any motor can be turned into a generator, right? All you need do is turn the shaft with a prime mover force, like wind or water. It is not as efficient as a true generator but it will work.

Sadly as someone who doesn't know this... I'd be happy to KNOW the how to of it!? Just for future reference... as you'd be helping me immensely.
Many thanks in advance!

[palehorse]

We are all connected in one way or another, I don't know why the heck I decided to watch this movie few days ago.

Survival Family
jTa51lcYTvM

It is all about the grid collapse.

Thanks for the thread Bill, it is the sort of information that everyone "must" be aware of. There is always a possibility to something like that to happen (solar storm, war, local conflicts, etc), and we all know the electric grid is a single point of failure, if it happen we are going back to live like our old ancestors.

Solar/Wind/Water energies can be harvested, if you got a river or a stream in your property, build a water wheel, you won't regret, there is documents available on internet how to do it.

[mountain_jim]

you will appreciate a flushing toilet much more after ...

We were fortunate to find a homestead with a gravity-fed spring - our toilets keep flushing regardless of power or not.

I joined the Yahoo group microhydro many years ago, later it migrated to a google group which I still receive occasional emails from.

I could never justify the cost/benefit ratio for building it out, as we also have a stream below our house with enough flow and drop to run about 200-300 feet of pipe with a micro-turbine and generate power that way. The biggest cost is in the home-battery system and rewiring the panel to allow on-grid and off functioning. (things I do not feel competent to do myself)

This video posted by Bill got me to thinking about that again, now that I am retired from corporate slavery I am considering returning to the idea of implementing this system.

Another reason against, is that if I had this working and the grid fails, I am not the type of person that will defend it with arms against potentially jealous others, and it would be very hard to hide all of this from passers by.

I can imagine supplying or trading our spring water with neighbors who require power or stream-buckets to get theirs in a longer-term power failure situation.

edit

https://www.sundancepower.com/micro-hydro-electric-for-homes/




How a Micro Hydroelectric System Works

CAPTURE THE ENERGY OF A STREAM OR RIVER FLOW
Moving water contains considerable energy, which you may be able to capture with a micro hydroelectric system. How much energy depends primarily on two factors – the vertical distance the water drops from a potential intake to turbine (the ‘head’) and how much water moves per unit time (the ‘flow’.) You can use an altimeter (apps are available for mobile devices) to determine the head on your site, and flow can be estimated by timing how long it takes to fill a five gallon bucket.

To estimate the potential energy of your site, simply multiply the head times the flow, and then divide the outcome by 10, which is a standard efficiency factor for micro hydro systems.

Power (W) = head (ft) X flow (gpm)/10
In general, we suggest a minimum power output of 300 watts for a micro hydro site to be considered.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Everyone knows that almost any motor can be turned into a generator, right? All you need do is turn the shaft with a prime mover force, like wind or water. It is not as efficient as a true generator but it will work.

Sadly as someone who doesn't know this... I'd be happy to KNOW the how to of it!? Just for future reference... as you'd be helping me immensely.
Many thanks in advance!


It's simple, really. The wires from the motor become the generated power when you turn the shaft of the motor at its rated RPM, usually 1600rpm. So the only problem is figuring out how to move the shaft with wind or water or pedal power. A ten speed bike can be used for gearing even if wind or water is being used, to get the RPMs right.

Charging batteries is also simple from a solar supply, because it is already 12 volts DC, unless panels have been interconnected for an inverter to convert power to 120 volts AC. A trickle charger is all you'd need in principle for a water or wind supply, being usually configured to 120 volts AC.

[Spiral]

I'm expecting this to happen, most likely excuse here in the UK will be the horrendous storm predicted by Piers Corbyn at the end of Jan, but I think they will do it anyway.

Because of this I've bought a generator off ebay, it's rated at 2600W so it's enough to keep the lights on, the fridge running & most importantly the gas central heating as the house doesn't have a chimney. £299 brand new & it runs on petrol which I can syphon out of the car or my bike if needs be.

I also bought a change over switch off ebay that means it's easy to flick over from mains to genny, with the genny then feeding into the main consumer unit (fuse box).

Because I want to run the genny in the garage that is integral to the house I had a bit of tube (that fits over the end of the gennys silencer) welded onto the end of a metre of flexible exhaust pipe that I'm going to feed out of a hole in the wall the tumble dryer used to use.

Diesel generators are too expensive esp as it's only really an 'insurance' item, and the little silent "suitcase" jobbies only make 650w max (they aren't going to want to hold that for long either) which isn't enough for a house, it's going to struggle to keep your fridge freezer going.

[lizhekb]

Death will come no matter one expects it or not, so does life.

[Pam]

been living off grid since a teenage mostly vacationing or camping. Recently I have experienced moving off grid with my more than 120 chicks and 20 pekin ducks with few tool all loaded in an 8 seater SUV. But I had the corrugated sheets for roofing shipped in advance. We ( me and my teenage buddy) arrive in a place with nothing but small 6 by 8 foot cabin with little wall cladding good only to house half of the animals. No electricity no water. So the first thing we did was to lay the 120 meters PE pipes from source. We slept on the car for a week until a suitable shelter was built. The entire 29 days I did nothing but construct cages and the 10 by 20 foot cabin which serves as shelter for the entire family of 9 people last Christmas. Doing 12 to 14 hours work each day, excluding the kitchen. My only source of power are 3 small solar panels with a total of 25 watts for lighting and charging my mobile and a rechargeable drill which I barely use. I will say its a lot more fun than in the city and that is considering I have barely time to sit down or nap. Construction is almost done so I expect when I go back after new year, Life would be a lot better. A year from now its going to be a dream come true with my food forest going. I'm going to have electricity soon and that is because I have a lot of electric toys. But from experience, I am pretty sure its going to be fine without the grid.
The control system is done via the grid. Power, communication etc. The grid wont collapse because the control system will collapse with it. Imagine people unable to watch TV and listen to the lies and nonsense of governments and their bosses

This is a very, very important statement!!! It's all based on the grid isn't it. No power,, no frigging control, no manipulation, no programming.

[haroldsails]

Food/water, shelter, personal safety - in that order. Food preservation, warmth in northern latitudes, and access to water are critical....Means of generating power will come in due course.

[Inversion]

DAHBOO77 believes they're telegraphing a blackout event. There was a TV show in 2012 called Revolution about a permanent global blackout.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvjyxyZigw8

Revolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_(TV_series))
Series trivia (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2070791/trivia/?ref_=tt_trv_trv)
Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_V-74WnzkI)

Revolution is an American post-apocalyptic science fiction television series that ran from September 17, 2012, until May 21, 2014, when it was cancelled by NBC.[1][2] The show takes place in the post-apocalyptic near-future of the year 2027, 15 years after the start of a worldwide, permanent electrical-power blackout in 2012. Created by Eric Kripke and produced by J. J. Abrams' Bad Robot Productions for the NBC network, it originally aired on Mondays at 10:00 PM ET,[2] and did well enough that NBC ordered a second season shortly after the first-season finale.[3]

[DeDukshyn]

... The grid wont collapse because the control system will collapse with it. Imagine people unable to watch TV and listen to the lies and nonsense of governments and their bosses

Correction: "THEY" probably won't collapse the grid, for the reasons you mention ... however, the sun could do it easily with only a few days hint that it might even happen ...

BTW good job on getting yourself off grid.

[Bubu]

... The grid wont collapse because the control system will collapse with it. Imagine people unable to watch TV and listen to the lies and nonsense of governments and their bosses

Correction: "THEY" probably won't collapse the grid, for the reasons you mention ... however, the sun could do it easily with only a few days hint that it might even happen ...

BTW good job on getting yourself off grid.

Yes of course natural calamities can do it. We had a recent typhoon that collapse the grid on some parts of the country. Being born and live for 44 years in a typhoon prone area of the country I am a veteran of grid collapse. The longest if I remember correctly was 48 days of no power. This is the time when I converted our ordinary stove to a glowing stove. We cooked all our foods for the next day when sun sets. During this time of cooking we have light from the glowing stove. "Necessity is the parent of inventions". Been ok so far. just a little inconvenience. People are different though I see times like this as an opportunity to have fun. So maybe a huge inconvenience for others is little for me.

[Bubu]

Everyone knows that almost any motor can be turned into a generator, right? All you need do is turn the shaft with a prime mover force, like wind or water. It is not as efficient as a true generator but it will work.

Sadly as someone who doesn't know this... I'd be happy to KNOW the how to of it!? Just for future reference... as you'd be helping me immensely.
Many thanks in advance!


It's simple, really. The wires from the motor become the generated power when you turn the shaft of the motor at its rated RPM, usually 1600rpm. So the only problem is figuring out how to move the shaft with wind or water or pedal power. A ten speed bike can be used for gearing even if wind or water is being used, to get the RPMs right.

Charging batteries is also simple from a solar supply, because it is already 12 volts DC, unless panels have been interconnected for an inverter to convert power to 120 volts AC. A trickle charger is all you'd need in principle for a water or wind supply, being usually configured to 120 volts AC.

Hey Ernie, most motors are induction motors. It wont work by simply turning its shaft. You need to find ways to excite the rotors and make it an electromagnet. like connecting capacitors on the winding. Motors with permanent magnets will work by simply turning its shaft. Most DC motors have permanent magnets. So its good to have one DC motor if you can find it at scrap yards. I have one that use to be a DC water pump. Just make sure that the motor has permanent magnets and you wont have problems with conversion or rewiring.

[Bubu]

additionally I would advise prepers to go for a DC power system. DC motors rated at 12 volts can run on 3 volts albeit at less RPM. you can't do that with ac motors because it will Burn.
Almost all electronic appliance runs on DC. All you need is a DC to DC buck converter. I recently bought one for like 2 dollars. 6 to 26 volts input and 5 volts output. to charge my mobile phone from a 6 or 12 volt battery.
Then of course you can collect DC power from sun. With DC motor/ generator you can harness power from wind water or pedals with little worries about correct RPM. For charging batteries you'll need a charge controller.
For bigger power requirement such as mills or saws. Get an ICE and run it on woodgas or biogas. It can still be run on regular petrol anytime.

Its fun really, just be frugal and try to forget the unreasonable luxuries of the city. Move around/ exercise more. You'll feel a lot better when you get used to grid collapse.

[bobme]

Also, If you live out of town, or have your own well head. A lot of hardware stores sell hand pumps you can mount on the wellhead and pump your water yourself. A couple of clean buckets and you can flush toilets, and have drinking too. I just need a wood stove for heat, and a place to cook on.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Good point, and thanks. DC motors have commutators that cause losses, but are good for DC power, or to excite the field winding of an AC generator. Otherwise they still have to be inverted for AC power use.

In an induction motor a small excitation current must be introduced to the field winding while the rotor is turning and a load must be attached to the motor leads to complete the circuit.
The induction motor has shaded poles, interpoles, and other tricks to smooth out the power curve and increase efficiency, that interfere with the generator effect.
I guess it's not so easy after all.

There are other problems associated with the motor, that distinguish it from a generator.

Motor and generator are in theory the exact same principle but solved on opposite sides of the equation, so to speak.

AC power is 'naturally' produced by a turning machine, and so AC power is far more desirable in those terms. Also it is much easier to transport AC power as opposed to DC over even medium distances of hundreds of feet. AC power can also easily be converted to DC by a simple bridge rectifier, the voltage moderated by resistors, unlike DC to AC.

I defer to Bubu on the practical application side of things.

[Bubu]

Good point, and thanks. DC motors have commutators that cause losses, but are good for DC power, or to excite the field winding of an AC generator. Otherwise they still have to be inverted for AC power use.

In an induction motor a small excitation current must be introduced to the field winding while the rotor is turning and a load must be attached to the motor leads to complete the circuit.
The induction motor has shaded poles, interpoles, and other tricks to smooth out the power curve and increase efficiency, that interfere with the generator effect.
I guess it's not so easy after all.

There are other problems associated with the motor, that distinguish it from a generator.

Motor and generator are in theory the exact same principle but solved on opposite sides of the equation, so to speak.

AC power is 'naturally' produced by a turning machine, and so AC power is far more desirable in those terms. Also it is much easier to transport AC power as opposed to DC over even medium distances of hundreds of feet. AC power can also easily be converted to DC by a simple bridge rectifier, the voltage moderated by resistors, unlike DC to AC.

I defer to Bubu on the practical application side of things.

I dont think we defer that much in opinion, And I am sure some people are glad we are discussing this, so back to topic. I recommend DC for emergencies, as this thread is more on that. And for people who have very little knowledge on this subject but wants to survive the onset of grid out with two most important things ; light and communication. However when things settled and gets better we definitely have to acquire AC power for the very obvious reason that more than 95% of electric appliance runs on ac.

[Yoda]

[QUOTE=Ernie Nemeth;1472032]Good point, and thanks. DC motors have commutators that cause losses, but are good for DC power, or to excite the field winding of an AC generator. Otherwise they still have to be inverted for AC power use.

I dont think we defer that much in opinion, And I am sure some people are glad we are discussing this, so back to topic. I recommend DC for emergencies, as this thread is more on that. And for people who have very little knowledge on this subject but wants to survive the onset of grid out with two most important things ; light and communication. However when things settled and gets better we definitely have to acquire AC power for the very obvious reason that more than 95% of electric appliance runs on ac.

I purchased an Inverter/ Generator. It does not have the spikes and brownouts, so it does not damage the delicate electronics. It provides DC and AC and some have an economy setting, whereby it idles when you have a light load.

[Pam]

additionally I would advise prepers to go for a DC power system. DC motors rated at 12 volts can run on 3 volts albeit at less RPM. you can't do that with ac motors because it will Burn.
Almost all electronic appliance runs on DC. All you need is a DC to DC buck converter. I recently bought one for like 2 dollars. 6 to 26 volts input and 5 volts output. to charge my mobile phone from a 6 or 12 volt battery.
Then of course you can collect DC power from sun. With DC motor/ generator you can harness power from wind water or pedals with little worries about correct RPM. For charging batteries you'll need a charge controller.
For bigger power requirement such as mills or saws. Get an ICE and run it on woodgas or biogas. It can still be run on regular petrol anytime.

Its fun really, just be frugal and try to forget the unreasonable luxuries of the city. Move around/ exercise more. You'll feel a lot better when you get used to grid collapse.

I have added you to my list of hero's,bubu. I mean that. I have deep admiration for your level of knowledge in the field of survival, living off grid and the farm you are building as well as the diverse information you have. Would you be able to recommend a book for understanding the basics of all things electrical for dummies and how to utilize that knowledge the way you do or is it just things you learn over time and pick up here and there?

[Yoda]

I have added you to my list of hero's,bubu. I mean that. I have deep admiration for your level of knowledge in the field of survival, living off grid and the farm you are building as well as the diverse information you have. Would you be able to recommend a book for understanding the basics of all things electrical for dummies and how to utilize that knowledge the way you do or is it just things you learn over time and pick up here and there?


Dare to Prepare
by Holly Drennan Deyo (Author)

It's pricey, but extremely well researched. She covers every aspect of survival; much attention to detail.

[Tigger]

We run on TWO power systems on our property - one is a 24VDC circuit that handles the lighting, comms (including radio, satellite, local UHF and base HF operations), security systems and a few other systems. The other is the standard 240VAC circuitry that, whilst it is currently fed by mains power, is primarily driven by the massive array of solar panels on the roof. Here, in Far Northern Queensland, we get PLENTY of sunlight, and we rarely have to rely on mains power during the day. During the evening, we have enough stored power to run the freezers and the lighting, because of the inverter / battery configuration. We don’t usually do that - while mains power is available we’ll use it and not waste battery charge/discharge cycles.

But, if the grid went down:

We have two diesel generators in place in the basement, configured to load-balance normal power demands. We have enough fuel in the ground to run them for just under 24 months.

But there is a downside to this:
- To maintain multiple freezers (we store a lot of produce from our farm) requires significant energy.
- During the ‘wet’ (December through to March), the heat and humidity is NOT comfortable, and one would need air-conditioning, which draws a significant amount of energy.
- Moving water from tanks to dam [and vice versa], etc requires power 24x7

- During the ‘wet’ season, solar panels cannot produce 100% of the building’s power needs, especially if one considers that this is also the peak need for air-conditioning!

All of the above means that there are some periods in the year where solar power is NOT enough to provide 100% of the power needs. So, we have a generator system that we use in case the solar system can’t meet the power needs of our homestead.

If the grid went down, we would have at least two years worth of full power, maybe three. After that, it’s solar system only. We know that we can adjust our power requirements to adapt.

[Bubu]

additionally I would advise prepers to go for a DC power system. DC motors rated at 12 volts can run on 3 volts albeit at less RPM. you can't do that with ac motors because it will Burn.
Almost all electronic appliance runs on DC. All you need is a DC to DC buck converter. I recently bought one for like 2 dollars. 6 to 26 volts input and 5 volts output. to charge my mobile phone from a 6 or 12 volt battery.
Then of course you can collect DC power from sun. With DC motor/ generator you can harness power from wind water or pedals with little worries about correct RPM. For charging batteries you'll need a charge controller.
For bigger power requirement such as mills or saws. Get an ICE and run it on woodgas or biogas. It can still be run on regular petrol anytime.

Its fun really, just be frugal and try to forget the unreasonable luxuries of the city. Move around/ exercise more. You'll feel a lot better when you get used to grid collapse.

I have added you to my list of hero's,bubu. I mean that. I have deep admiration for your level of knowledge in the field of survival, living off grid and the farm you are building as well as the diverse information you have. Would you be able to recommend a book for understanding the basics of all things electrical for dummies and how to utilize that knowledge the way you do or is it just things you learn over time and pick up here and there?

Thanks Pam I was thinking along the same lines towards you. I mean you are one of the people I consider "adorable" and I mean it. I cant remember reading books on any subject. When I want to know something I simply try to find the answer on google or make experiments. Its easy for me because I have the basic knowledge on almost everything technical. Being educated as marine engineer. Further I was born like this. I mean a discoverer/ tinkerer. I can not recommend any book but I will be glad to answer any of your questions no matter how many you ask. Some things you should know is ; where there is electric current there is an accompanying magnetic field. Alternating current is electricity that goes back and fort in a conductor. That is why Ernie said its easier to transmit it because its not actually transmitted it simply reciprocates in a wire, electrons or whatever it is. DC or direct current on the other hand is transmitted from one end to the other. That is why it requires bigger wires than ac. Just read electrical books it will prime you so you'll be able to ask the right questions. I will try to provide the answers the best I can. Learning is fun. don't stop learning while you still can.

[Tigger]

We run on TWO power systems on our property - one is a 24VDC circuit that handles the lighting, comms (including radio, satellite, local UHF and base HF operations), security systems and a few other systems. The other is the standard 240VAC circuitry that, whilst it is currently fed by mains power, is primarily driven by the massive array of solar panels on the roof. Here, in Far Northern Queensland, we get PLENTY of sunlight, and we rarely have to rely on mains power during the day. During the evening, we have enough stored power to run the freezers and the lighting, because of the inverter / battery configuration. We don’t usually do that - while mains power is available we’ll use it and not waste battery charge/discharge cycles.

But, if the grid went down:

We have two diesel generators in place in the basement, configured to load-balance normal power demands. We have enough fuel in the ground to run them for just under 24 months.

But there is a downside to this:
- To maintain multiple freezers (we store a lot of produce from our farm) requires significant energy.
- During the ‘wet’ (December through to March), the heat and humidity is NOT comfortable, and one would need air-conditioning, which draws a significant amount of energy.
- Moving water from tanks to dam [and vice versa], etc requires power 24x7

- During the ‘wet’ season, solar panels cannot produce 100% of the building’s power needs, especially if one considers that this is also the peak need for air-conditioning!

All of the above means that there are some periods in the year where solar power is NOT enough to provide 100% of the power needs. So, we have a generator system that we use in case the solar system can’t meet the power needs of our homestead.

If the grid went down, we would have at least two years worth of full power, maybe three. After that, it’s solar system only. We know that we can adjust our power requirements to adapt.


A classic case in point:

This evening the mains power grid dropped out (again) due to fallen power lines. That’s not an unusual incident in this area (there’s been 5 power outages in the last 4 weeks), only this outage is likely to last several days.

The problem is, this incident has hit us after several days of steady rain (i.e. very limited solar power generation) and the batteries are close to depleted. So the solar power system can’t supply our power needs for much longer...

That wouldn’t normally be a problem for us, because we have generator backup, running 2 x 22KW units (load balanced)... Except, one of the generators failed this evening, and the secondary unit is now supplying 100% of our power needs. Technically we have no issue (one generator can hold the power needs of the property), assuming we can get the other generator fixed, and providing the secondary generator doesn’t fail. This is what we call redundancy. In the meantime, the secondary generator is chewing up diesel fuel like a kid chews lollipops.

So, OK, we still have power, but look at how many of our systems failed in the process. And we’ve been pretty careful to shore-up our power needs because we know how badly we rely on that for a range of critical applications.

THIS is why you need to run ‘scenarios’. THIS is why you need to evaluate your own situation and plan for contingencies. In this game, you need to develop a vivid but realistic imagination to deal with the “what if...?”

In this little episode, I’m able to post online because I have failsafe after failsafe for my power needs. Considering this is a widespread power outage, all of the 4G towers are down, and I am running on a DS-3 satellite backup system, hence why I am able to post this update.

[Mari]

A bit off-topic, but when the chips are really down, you could try this: :idea:

Building a complete and warm survival shelter. Bushcraft earth hut, grass roof & fireplace with clay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skcqFTi3s_A

[Pam]

I have added you to my list of hero's,bubu. I mean that. I have deep admiration for your level of knowledge in the field of survival, living off grid and the farm you are building as well as the diverse information you have. Would you be able to recommend a book for understanding the basics of all things electrical for dummies and how to utilize that knowledge the way you do or is it just things you learn over time and pick up here and there?


Dare to Prepare
by Holly Drennan Deyo (Author)

It's pricey, but extremely well researched. She covers every aspect of survival; much attention to detail.

Yoda, I am late to thank you, I will check your recommendation out!!!!

[Icare]

This thread has made me rethink whether I'm really well-prepared and it pretty much looks like I'm not - yet.

I have enough food and water to last me quite a while, I have a Berkey water filter as well.

So last week I ordered a little outside cooker fuelled by wood which I can theoretically collect in the tiny wood behind my house. It's for cooking and baking, so I'm hoping it'll be good enough. It has just arrived in the post and I'm hoping to unpack it and set it up outside soon. It's too heavy to do it on my own. :(

That was step one. Now for step 2.

I can't afford to buy solar panels for my house just yet, far too expensive and only useful if it would remain undamaged and could be disconnected from the grid in case of an attack or whatever on the grid, so now I'm thinking of getting an affordable smaller alternative, just 2 panels which would be completely independent of the grid and which I could theoretically place somewhere in the garden or in case of a serious crisis just in the kitchen windows.

I'd buy a complete system including a transformer with a socket for an ordinary German plug and a battery.

Unfortunately I'm not tech savvy at all and would like to ask somebody's advice.

I have found 2 systems which sound promising.

If an Avalon member with any knowhow in this field reads this, would you kindly send me a quick pm? Then I could send you the two links and you could tell me which one to get?
I guess I could post them here, but they're in German, so I'm guessing only an expert, someone who can understand all the numbers without needing literal translations for the components would be able to understand.

[TrumanCash]

I highly recommend the Thunderbolt Solar Panel kits (https://www.thesolaradvantage.net/thunderbolt-magnum-solar-100-watt-review/) for northern areas and other areas with limited sunshine. The kits contain "amorphous (https://solwiser.com/amorphous-solar-panel/)" solar panels which are not the same as the usual blue crystal panels which are better (i.e., more efficient) for sunny areas. Amorphous solar panels are more efficient at capturing indirect lighting that is more common in cloudy areas and when chemtrails cover the sky.

Thunderbolt 12-volt kits not only contain solar panels but also lights, controller and connectors. Thunderbolt also has smaller 12-volt batteries for sale. Harbor Freight carries them but they can also be found online. There is no inverter in the kits so you can purchase one separately if you want to power 110 volt AC electronics. I would recommend getting the kits now while they are still available and they cost about $200 per kit with four 25-watt solar panels.

Unfortunately, the Thunderbolt kits are the only source for amorphous panels that I have found outside of amorphous RV and camping solar panels that are usually flexible and can be rolled up. The Thunderbolt kits have solar panels that are set in frames and are not flexible. This kits now have four panels (100 watts). One can purchase a connecting device to connect multiple Thunderbolt kits together for more wattage.
Harbor Freight page with video -- https://www.harborfreight.com/100-watt-solar-panel-kit-63585.html
I just found another company that sells amorphous panels, Renogy.com, but I like the plug-and-play features of the Harbor Freight panels and a controller with USB for charging cell phones and computers.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PrVMluI-ezY/maxresdefault.jpg

[Inversion]

This morning between 06:00 & 06:12 there was a power outage in my area of Los Angeles County. I wondered if and when it would go back on.

Dare-to-Prepare (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90348-Dare-to-Prepare)

This video gives a good list of preparedness items.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iu1Mld2e3Q

[Bubu]

This thread has made me rethink whether I'm really well-prepared and it pretty much looks like I'm not - yet.

I have enough food and water to last me quite a while, I have a Berkey water filter as well.

So last week I ordered a little outside cooker fuelled by wood which I can theoretically collect in the tiny wood behind my house. It's for cooking and baking, so I'm hoping it'll be good enough. It has just arrived in the post and I'm hoping to unpack it and set it up outside soon. It's too heavy to do it on my own. :(

That was step one. Now for step 2.

I can't afford to buy solar panels for my house just yet, far too expensive and only useful if it would remain undamaged and could be disconnected from the grid in case of an attack or whatever on the grid, so now I'm thinking of getting an affordable smaller alternative, just 2 panels which would be completely independent of the grid and which I could theoretically place somewhere in the garden or in case of a serious crisis just in the kitchen windows.

I'd buy a complete system including a transformer with a socket for an ordinary German plug and a battery.

Unfortunately I'm not tech savvy at all and would like to ask somebody's advice.

I have found 2 systems which sound promising.

If an Avalon member with any knowhow in this field reads this, would you kindly send me a quick pm? Then I could send you the two links and you could tell me which one to get?
I guess I could post them here, but they're in German, so I'm guessing only an expert, someone who can understand all the numbers without needing literal translations for the components would be able to understand.

there isnt much sun on your area so get a monocrystaline panel. they work at low light intensity. I imstalled my panel on a wood bar such that I can rotate it to face the sun. I turn it 3x a day. I am also planning to install a reflector on the sides of the panel to maximixe light collection. This is a lot cheaper than buying additional panels.

[Nick Matkin]

Great and timely thread! There are real fears of a very significant imminent cyber attack on Western energy and industrial infrastructure. There's some good technical info posted in the thread, but unfortunately probably above the grasp of those readers with little technical grounding.

"Nine Meals from Anarchy" may give some insight...

Link here: https://neweconomics.org/uploads/files/e0923bb9ffdeef6ebd_34m6bv9jo.pdf

[onawah]

A little innovation can work wonders, but I doubt the controllers will be the ones to initiate something like this, unless forced:
Breakthrough Tech Heats Homes Cheaper Than Natural Gas!
269,336 views Sep 1, 2022
6.6K
Two Bit da Vinci
311K subscribers
p9PZ9Mykv4o

How salt and sand could replace lithium batteries
409,753 views Aug 19, 2022
13K
DW Planet A
326K subscribers
The lithium-ion battery has powered us for decades. But for a renewable future, we need a new solution—and fast. So what are our options?

CORRECTION: In the video, at 05:40, we say lithium-ion batteries can only store energy for under four hours. This is incorrect. Four hours is the discharge duration that is currently economically viable.

Reporter: Beina Xu
Video Editor: Tomas Rosenberg
Supervising Editor: Joanna Gottschalk

We're destroying our environment at an alarming rate. But it doesn't need to be this way. Our new channel Planet A explores the shift towards an eco-friendly world — and challenges our ideas about what dealing with climate change means. We look at the big and the small: What we can do and how the system needs to change. Every Friday we'll take a truly global look at how to get us out of this mess.

#PlanetA #Lithium #Battery

Read more:

The future of energy storage: https://energy.mit.edu/wp-content/upl...

Projections of energy storage technology: https://www.nrel.gov/analysis/storage...

Power storage technology, using sand and engineered materials: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science...

IEA Electricity Market Report: https://www.iea.org/reports/electrici...

IEA Energy Storage Report: https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-st...

Costs and markets to 2030: https://www.irena.org/publications/20...

Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:49 The lithium-ion battery
02:33 Hydro
03:46 Sodium-ion
05:00 Thermal heat
07:11 The future

-vobMl5ldOs


https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1571573546836725764?s=20&t=ZzYXtkJOXYFWkO8YlPCRww

[palehorse]

Here is a video of Tucker Carlson interviewing Dennis Quaid, the discussion is about the power grid and politics.

5kJ_SofFm0g


Dennis Quaid is also releasing a documentary "Grid Down - Power Up"

https://griddownpowerup.com Official website for the documentary
https://www.youtube.com/@griddownpowerup Official Youtube channel

[s7e6e]

Thanks palehorse. So an actor explains the possible triggers for this incoming grid down event :facepalm:. I guess Tucker has to pay his dues just like everybody else..

[palehorse]

Thanks palehorse. So an actor explains the possible triggers for this incoming grid down event :facepalm:. I guess Tucker has to pay his dues just like everybody else..

Yah!! I refrained from commenting on this one, the intention was only to share so people can see more and more on this subject is coming up recently everywhere mainstream and alternative.

The main topics that had a surge in the last few months are:

- cyber attack (financial, health, energy, etc..)
- EMP attack by "bad actors" lol
- solar flare (storm)

which could possibly bring down the grid elsewhere not only in the US.

[Mike Gorman]

The solar event which is expected in the mid 2030's will result in much more than a 'Carrington event' - if Ben from Suspicious Observers is correct, this will be the end of our current epoch and the beginning of the next major cycle of our world, he speaks of the planet up-ending, the accretion of a dust covering on the sun and this being blown off = a time of darkness followed by catastrophic micro-nova. Massive tsunamis and earthquakes, volcanic upheavals....geeze, a real end of the world type scenario, but always some survive to re-kindle humanity. I don't know if this is 100% correct, but Ben is a clever chap and we do have evidence of this occurring in 12,000 year cycles, flood myths e.t.c - I have been aware that in my lifetime something massive is going to take place, perhaps this is it. Probably it is time for another go at the prize, somehow we seem to have reached a final point that is too awful to be sustained. I don't know, do you? Something is coming down the pike, that's for certain.

[Bill Ryan]

Here is a video of Tucker Carlson interviewing Dennis Quaid, the discussion is about the power grid and politics.

5kJ_SofFm0g
Dennis Quaid is also releasing a documentary "Grid Down - Power Up"
https://griddownpowerup.com Official website for the documentary
https://www.youtube.com/@griddownpowerup Official Youtube channel


Thanks palehorse. So an actor explains the possible triggers for this incoming grid down event :facepalm:. I guess Tucker has to pay his dues just like everybody else..~~~

Here's the 7 minute trailer for Grid Down, Power Up. (https://griddownpowerup.com) Quaid is merely the host and narrator.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV-nf5HHOxU
Personally, I'd thank him for doing his part to draw attention to what could definitely be a very major problem. (I have to say, I was surprised how much Tucker didn't seem to know about all this.)

The real issue may not be cyber or EMP attacks (the documentary warns about Russia, China and Iran, an incessant mainstream talking point), but as Mike Gorman posts above, (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117254-If-the-power-grid-goes-down...-then-what&p=1596009&viewfull=1#post1596009) a massive near-future solar event that's been discussed and predicted by many.

Here's Zero Hedge's new article on this:

https://zerohedge.com/geopolitical/90-population-will-be-dead-within-year-dennis-quaid-warns-tucker-inevitable-major

"90% of the Population will be Dead Within a Year" - Dennis Quaid Warns Tucker of Inevitable Major Solar Storm Destroying All Tech

"Basically, there is a 100% probability that our sun, generating what they call a GMD, which is a solar storm, that hits hard, hits our Earth, and the magnetic field we have around the Earth, and can fry everything that is electric above the ground, including our entire grid," actor Dannis Quaid explained to Tucker Carlson in one of the former Fox anchor's most surreal yet terrifying interviews yet.

Scared yet? You should be.

Accomplished actor and musician Quaid shares insights on his upcoming documentary titled "Grid Down, Power Up", (https://griddownpowerup.com/)highlighting the inevitability of a massive solar storm (a Carrington event such as occurred in 1859) impacting Earth in catastrophic ways.

At the time, Quaid notes, the GMD (geomagnetic disturbance) devastated the then-existing telegraph system, and asks Carlson to consider the potential magnitude of such a disaster in today's electrically-dependent society. He notes:
"imagine what that would do now with a very large storm... it would take out not only the electricity but all of our infrastructure," the actor exclaims, adding that:
“There wouldn’t be water in your tap. You couldn’t get gas for your car because the whole system is broken down."
Quaid hopes that by bringing attention to the potential catastrophe he can nudge politicians into action to harden the grid against such events (natural or terrorist-driven)...
"It's something we don't like to think about but it's... whether from the Sun or a bad actor this is something that 100% chance it's going to happen and we are just no nowhere no way prepared for it." ;
...although he is not optimistic given the challenges posed by regulatory agencies and the private ownership of power companies.
"President Trump actually signed an executive order to harden our grid to protect ourselves against an event like this happening. Obama tried to get that going as well and it's stuck in these Regulatory Agencies."
And if we don't do something about it, basically all the worst bits from the bible...
“Everything that we rely upon would be gone. The food would melt in our refrigerators..." Quaid states, warning that "within a year, 90% of the world’s population would be dead from starvation, disease, or killing themselves in total and utter social catastrophe."
He concludes the interview with thoughts on American democracy and the need for balanced political discourse, advocating for education about the values that make us a nation and urging for cooler heads to prevail in politics.

[bojancan]

I was thinking, where to add this interesting interview with Whitney Webb I just finished to watch... it's from three weeks ago...

So many topics she talks... among them, also topic about subject in this tread.
Whitney really makes me think.. about what to do.. so many questions... I agree with her... look at what they are doing... not what they say.... It seems like, you can trust nothing and nobody!!!


The End of the World as We Know It with Whitney Webb
rYyTyXpdQRI

TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:08:10 Prep for crises; corruption
00:13:57 AI dystopia
00:28:17 Musk’s mask; decentralise power
00:41:41 Argentina, Milei, & the IMF
00:47:25 Bitcoin vs technocrats
01:03:52 Can Bitcoin win?
01:11:33 Prep against apathy

[Vicus]

Anomalies...

There are 2 points that have been Perforated my brain all the time from this video even before ended ...

1) At some point the man ask her Who are "they"...about the dark manipulators...and for me he have something else in mind as
the woman respond...like he bit his tong and force himself not to go forded with that thoughts train ...(about dark entities/Aliens )

At that moment I"remember" some "woo" information about Earth been the only or one of the rare planet with free will...
Meaning that the rest are something like insects colony...
All the efforts seems to drive us in that direction...and then coupling with that came next fact...

2) "they" want again a feudal time like it was 1000 years "Dark Age" only 1 king ,his army and then the peasants/workers, like an ant colony.

But in middle that darkness light show up : the first printer machine! having an impact like today Internet...

To that point only the church minions ( and some "nobles")could read Latin ,that was the language used in Bibles, therefor given
whatever interpretation "the elite" suit better... Remember. most people couldn't reed...

With that new technology the peasants could take another picture(not only from that book) and then good sh1t happens!

Well, we are now in the same fork, and the "Elite" has learn that bitter lesson and are preparing all dirty tricks their dark minds are
capable of...

Well, nothing new here, another battle for planet Earth...again

[Philippe]

Whitney Webb about Milei 00:41:41 Argentina, Milei, & the IMF
This is off topic but I want to subscribe what this lady says about Milei, his finance minister Caputo and a new round of pillage that is certainly going to happen in Argentina. It is amazing these days more than ever how with the right populist message large parts of a population can be fooled and betrayed.

[palehorse]

Whitney Webb about Milei 00:41:41 Argentina, Milei, & the IMF
This is off topic but I want to subscribe what this lady says about Milei, his finance minister Caputo and a new round of pillage that is certainly going to happen in Argentina. It is amazing these days more than ever how with the right populist message large parts of a population can be fooled and betrayed.

Absolutely right, Ms. Webb is an outstanding person, highly educated you can perceive it the way she express herself.
This new president in Argentina will hammer down the country into the dark ages, he wants do dollarize Argentine and he said that right after he won the elections, what a patriot huh? lol

[palehorse]

Grid Down Power Up (2024) Complete Documentary Narrated by Dennis Quaid - Official YouTube Release

It is available since 6 days ago.
Warning: This YT version has Ads embedded in the movie (not YT Ads.)

1kErOyJ0u-8 (the movie is 1h 05m long)

[ExomatrixTV]

WARNING Prepare for GRID DOWN ... It's going to happen ... UPDATE!

f13aBLtea7w


Solar storms, such as GMDs, have a 100% probability of occurring and pose a serious threat to the electrical grid and society's infrastructure.
Past events like the Carrington event of 1859 demonstrate the potential devastation of solar storms, which could lead to widespread power outages and societal collapse.
There's a significant risk of power grid hacks by foreign adversaries like Iranian hackers, as highlighted in a recent White House report.
The availability of backup power systems like the Delta 2 can mitigate the impact of power outages caused by natural disasters or cyberattacks.
Preparation for potential power grid failures is crucial, especially considering vulnerabilities in the current geopolitical landscape and the potential for prolonged disruptions.