Being tired/wary of online discussions...

[SoulValor]

Hey everyone,
I finally decided to join this forum. I've known about this place for a long time and found myself keep coming back here, reading around. ;-) I was an early listener/watcher of Project Camelot, back in the good old days when Bryan was still around.....When he moved on from there so did I.

I did join an occasional forum/group here or there to exchange and communicate with other like minded people but none of those ever lasted long, as a matter of fact it often entailed/ended up in negative experiences - disappointment in other members reactions or behaviours (including mods & admins) or the draining of energy via discussions of a pointless or parasitic nature. I've become very wary/aware of such things so you can imagine that my registration here was very hesitant. However, I do have a slight growing feeling that I should engage again in communicating with others. And this forum here has been very solid and reputable. So let's see where this leads to. :sun:

What I actually wanted to ask/write about though: A couple of years back and ever since then I've really hit a point where I was totally disillusioned and tired of online exchanges and discussions. Even with communities like this one (though none are exactly like Avalon but I'm sure you catch my drift)....I felt tired at the prospect of even starting to type. Even if the subject was of great interest to me or a favorite subject.....probably becaue I knew/felt that my answer would usually end up being longer than I would want it to be - thus also taking more time than I actually was initially willing to invest. Yeah, time is of a critical aspect here too. (I've been engaged in some other important projects for me)

It's kind of a dilemma for me and I'm wondering if others here have the same or have hit these points before too? If so, what did you make of it and what did you do about it to keep you going? And why did you feel it was important or a good thing to keep going?

-->
- Being simply tired of online exchanges, even of the thought of typing (if so, why?)

- Being disillusioned by online exchanges, due to energy vampirism and all kinds of manipulations (have you even noticed?)

- Being unsatisfied by online exchanges because it misses the physical expressions (face and body), gestures, the tone and voice, the actual laughter or cries or whatever, etc

- Not having enough time for online exchanges (or the feeling that you don't)

To emphasize, I'm only referring this to esoteric/spiritual communities - places/stuff that you are really interested in yet you find yourself in those moments/phases....

p.s.: To be fair, I've found myself in that phase with ALL types of interactions lately. Not just online, also offline. More even offline of course as you usally don't meet like minded people there. But that's not the actual issue, the issue are the above listed points. I really have been living like a recluse for the past few years. Quarantine due to COVID? Naaaah, been already kinda doing that long before COVID. And Home Office is my world since 2003. :D (Gotta love self-employment)
Sometimes I miss having a (physical) mate, but I've also been enjoying my peace and freedoms. Everything has its good and bad sides, I suppose....

[ExomatrixTV]

Being simply tired of online exchanges, even of the thought of typing (if so, why?)

Big chance you are (like me) noticing that even in the "truther community" aka "suppressed news researchers" and/or "conspiracy analysts" even "spiritual minded people" have certain programmed (conditioned) behavior (often unknowingly) sometimes full of assumptions you do not have time to "correct" their assumptions as you were hoping some one else can correct you (as we all have our flaws) in a respectful way if need be. Constructive criticism on a higher level without using "name-callings" nor judgemental rhetoric.

In essence we can learn form everybody as long as we are aware we all can become victim of very sophisticated mind-games/propaganda techniques "normalcy bias", collectivism of all kinds, herd-mentality, group think mentality, "desire to fit in/ to belong" being abused or not ...

Finding true "agenda free" genuine authentic researchers is extremely rare but they DO exist :) ... who do not feel the need to impose things on others ... who can related to you but not necessarily have to agree with everything you claim and visa versa >>> not feeling bad about that!

But: if you feel pushed, narrowed down, misrepresented too many times, marginalized, belittled, falsely accused etc. etc. ... This is obvious a huge red flag ... Sometimes I rather have someone be 100% open & frank even blunt to me ... than "playing nice" but having all kinds of faulty perceptions buried inside "who I suppose to be".

You can sense when some one is super honest (including towards oneself) or not ... This is, in my view, key to see the light at the end of a dark tunnel ... But first you have to analyze how good is your own "sensing" of others .. it takes some effort to ask the right questions without assuming to have the answers of these questions. If you already have a per-conceived idea with anyone it can sometimes prevent you finding out what really is going on ... this insight will go for everybody.

I try to use my intuition with whom I am willing to spent more energy in to or not ... in the past I did not really care ... I saw myself as "a man with a mission" ... now I see myself as navigator or multiple (limited & unlimited) perceptions having overlappings with like-mined spirits ... Everything you put attention (energy) in to grows! ... good & bad and especially: >> frustrations << ... "constructive anger-management" is more and more needed nowadays ... for multiple reasons.

If you do not know your own emotional boundaries ... and people go over it ... it may be happening because you are already were over your own threshold / limit to begin with .... So many have not been taught how to show your boundaries that leads to people behaving very erratic. "everything must be perfect" or "not" ... Like a switch ... turning yourself "off" the moment you feel triggered to do so ... Thus missing so much in life.

Making (hard) choices or being passive (not making choices) can also be a reason why people have issues with others and themselves.

So in short >> self-knowledge & self-honesty << and taking space to express both to others is not always simple ... As you have to allow the other to have their space too ... but if you allow it for yourself without claiming "to know it all / or better" there is a bigger chance it will be mirrored back to you in the same way ... You have to lead by example ... How you treat others so you will be treated ... if not you did what you could and move on.

What helped me, is this statement: "you are not responsible for the quality of thinking/reasoning (behind the acting) of others" ... but you can inspire others to reevaluate their (self imposed limited) behavior ... as you hope to be inspired by other insightful people to do the same to you.

Anyway welcome to Project Avalon Family @SoulValor (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?48650-SoulValor) :)

https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/v1/user/27474914.f5b631e7.161x161o.41651e66dca0.png

cheers,
John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
December 30th, 2021

[Spiral]

Hey everyone,
I finally decided to join this forum. I've known about this place for a long time and found myself keep coming back here, reading around. ;-) I was an early listener/watcher of Project Camelot, back in the good old days when Bryan was still around.....When he moved on from there so did I.


-->
- Being simply tired of online exchanges, even of the thought of typing (if so, why?)

- Being disillusioned by online exchanges, due to energy vampirism and all kinds of manipulations (have you even noticed?)

- Being unsatisfied by online exchanges because it misses the physical expressions (face and body), gestures, the tone and voice, the actual laughter or cries or whatever, etc

- Not having enough time for online exchanges (or the feeling that you don't)

To emphasize, I'm only referring this to esoteric/spiritual communities - places/stuff that you are really interested in yet you find yourself in those moments/phases....



Welcome & yes good points.

I started on Camelot too :thumbsup:

I think that each online place has it's own "vibe" and mindset too to a degree, and after a while it's the same stuff going around and around and then it gets boring & it's time to move on or something forces the move, like when Disclose TV's forum closed.

Sometimes it just gets draining but it's become a habit reading & posting lol.

Some online formats aren't that attractive either, I don't really like discord or telegram and I don't think it's aesthetics, there is defo an "energy" that comes off the internet & like different venues in the real world, different places are attractive to different kinds of people.

I think they all have a psychic aspect regardless of the subjects discussed, just as all life does.

Plus things are getting worse out there, I've returned here after a long absence & deleted my FB page.... it's much better here.

:cheers:

[Heart to heart]

Welcome SoulValour
Avalon is quite a special forum where discussion is part of the day’s work.
So many subjects are open to your daily perusal and we all appreciate what Bill is offering here.
Like yourself I was a regular reader here of material that suited my understanding and some that did not, however more often than not someone posted something to catch my imagination, so like yourself I decided to join Avalon.
It is a place to go to most days and your input will be welcome.
Come with an open heart to meet with interesting minds.
The world is in a state of madness and paranoia but here is a space of peace to share the valour of your Soul.❤️🌟🙏

[JackMcThorn]

-->
- Being simply tired of online exchanges, even of the thought of typing (if so, why?)

- Being disillusioned by online exchanges, due to energy vampirism and all kinds of manipulations (have you even noticed?)

- Being unsatisfied by online exchanges because it misses the physical expressions (face and body), gestures, the tone and voice, the actual laughter or cries or whatever, etc

- Not having enough time for online exchanges (or the feeling that you don't)

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I find I do more reading and watching as opposed to posting. Some people are on top of things so quickly and neatly that they command more of a following. I am drawn more to the scientific postings than the phenomenon postings. The thing is I would rather know the truth, than to believe in the truth.

Sometimes I think it is a factor of contribution. I am not really an online researcher, so I post less based on not wanting to be a contributor of unnecessary noise. There are millions of postings here and frankly some threads I have wasted time reading.

But it is the gems that keep me coming back --- and they are so worth it.

I was with a forum from about 2oo6 until it ended in 2o2o I think [it started in 1999], I wasn't there much at the end. The mods extended a lot of leeway in the participants and it got ugly on the regular. The bitterness far exceeded the gems partly because of the focus on politics and religion. There was basically a left / right melee daily. It was mostly men and a few women. The writers demonstrated an excellence in english communication; however, and this experience helps improve one's writing, which is part of the reason I stuck around for so long. I think she closed it down because it basically became an unmanageable eyesore.

tldr is a big deal for me. If I see a poster with pages of a message, I might not have the patience to get through the entire article. Same thing goes for videos over 3o minutes. I find myself wanting people to understand time and get to the point as quickly as possible. I don't think this is a foreign idea either, meaning I am not the only one who thinks this way.

They say there is thousands of years worth of reading available on the internet, those that command one's attention ought to do it quickly or render themselves irrelevant.

Avalon is a good place. It says it has something for everyone and I think that is true. Besides, it might be one of the nicest forums on the net. There is a lot of love here.

[lizhekb]

Welcome and hope you find what you look for here.

[1212is24]

Respect for fully showing who you are, off the bat. You didn't need to do that. Maybe in your mind, you did... I respect that mindset, if that is the case. You also could've made an account under a name like OrangeOveralls373 and interacted in a similar manner with people here, I guess? I don't know.

What I will say is this... One thing I've noticed about Germans -- no offence -- is that you guys like to measure things a lot. When you say it's about "time" when you write anything online, what is time? What if you were to write inside a private journal each day? Would you restrict each entry to a certain number of words, or a certain number of minutes of writing time? I'm not asking this to be silly either, I'm genuinely curious. I know a lot of people are meticulous about how they do things. If it works for them (or you), that's great. I am just saying... Such a rigid approach doesn't seem aligned with the 'universe' in many ways, if you catch my drift.

As Exomatrix articulated well above, you need to sense things for yourself in many of these situations. I once met a guy who had been 'catfished' online before I even know what the word meant. I laughed. I am sorry to say, but I found the whole story hilarious because I was totally ignorant that such things existed. I felt terrible when it was explained to me properly. But... you know... Real life is always better. Someone recently told me that they thought meeting someone online was safer than meeting someone in real life. Lol. Most people these days really are so brainwashed to think all kinds of nonsense, I find it hard to keep up with how many things I find ridiculous... But I will never sacrifice my own principles or standards. Nor should you.

I see how and why Germans are great at so many things... Structure. Respect for systems. It makes a lot of sense. Discipline is the key to success. No doubt about it. However, having such a rigid approach is bound to create problems. Maybe I am missing the mark here though.

For what it is worth, I think you seem like a decent person with your heart in the right place. I've got nothing but respect for you. Happy new year!

[Gemma13]

SoulValor:
- Being simply tired of online exchanges, even of the thought of typing (if so, why?)

- Being disillusioned by online exchanges, due to energy vampirism and all kinds of manipulations (have you even noticed?)

- Being unsatisfied by online exchanges because it misses the physical expressions (face and body), gestures, the tone and voice, the actual laughter or cries or whatever, etc

- Not having enough time for online exchanges (or the feeling that you don't

Great summary and I think many here will relate. Overcoming a nagging fear of time deprivation and "is it really worth it" are contributing factors imo; but operating in waves seems to be a consistent theme for sustainability. I'm really appreciative of those who do make the effort because there are so many times that reading a line here, or a post there, is tremendously rewarding to one's day.

Adjusting to cyber communications that lack all the lovely physical nuances you listed is really hard and I'm still struggling with it. But the rewards for sticking with it are worth it in the long run.

And as for the manipulations, f*ck 'em!
Rise above 'em and don't sweat the small stuff is kinda my motto.

[Anu Raman]

I have been on many internet forums all over the world, started in the old days when there was a such thing called the BBS.
I have shared information which is privy to the very few. Most of what I had written is pretty much non-existent today.
It is true that it gets frustrating trying to reach people. I have accepted the fact, that it's like some system out there, attempting to block me from fully sharing.

In return, I just post and leave as it is, fully knowing that someday, my writings will disappear again.. like it had in the past.
I had my share of negative responses from many. Some were extremely toxic towards of what I had written.

I wanted to tell a story about the ancients. I know so much about them.. but again, I am not really willing to write it up all over again because my words are just that.. words..
cheap... as in 'talk is cheap'... it attracts certain attention to this subject as well.

I keep going... only this time I am providing facts and evidence. People are more inclined to respect that aspect instead of being negative about it.


I know how it feels.

[Icare]

It's kind of a dilemma for me and I'm wondering if others here have the same or have hit these points before too? If so, what did you make of it and what did you do about it to keep you going? And why did you feel it was important or a good thing to keep going?

-->
- Being simply tired of online exchanges, even of the thought of typing (if so, why?)

- Being disillusioned by online exchanges, due to energy vampirism and all kinds of manipulations (have you even noticed?)

- Being unsatisfied by online exchanges because it misses the physical expressions (face and body), gestures, the tone and voice, the actual laughter or cries or whatever, etc

- Not having enough time for online exchanges (or the feeling that you don't)

To emphasize, I'm only referring this to esoteric/spiritual communities - places/stuff that you are really interested in yet you find yourself in those moments/phases....

p.s.: To be fair, I've found myself in that phase with ALL types of interactions lately. Not just online, also offline. More even offline of course as you usally don't meet like minded people there. But that's not the actual issue, the issue are the above listed points.

Hey, SoulValor,

first of all, welcome to Avalon. :flower:

Yes, I can relate to the points you mention.

Like you, I find it extremely draining when I see all kinds of manipulations going on during online exchanges. Part of the problem, at least for me, is the inability to use all one's senses in gaging whether a piece of information can be trusted and how somebody means something, whether he is serious or joking or just impatient or in a bad mood for whatever reason.

At times one comes across people who deliberately spread disinformation in order to cause chaos - and often they succeed.
At times people hurl insults at each other and that brings everybody engaged in the discussion down, sadly.

We are all at different stages in our spiritual development and sometimes it really shows.
Sometimes things somebody has known for years and takes for granted are completely unknown to a person who engages with him and it can be really hurtful when things are just dismissed out of hand. That's where disillusionment sets in (for me).
I've seen that repeatedly and find it draining. I saw it on the old David Icke forum where in the end, people were really tired.

What I do about it is usually just take a step back, take a break from the forum, stop reading the thread which emotionally drained me and concentrate on "normal", every day things in my life.
The reason why I eventually keep going is that it's much easier to grow together than on one's own. I have learnt so much from other members here on this forum, there are so many specific threads with very specific questions and there are a lot of genuine experts in different fields here. That's why I think it's really worth it.

You may not gel with everybody, but you will always find like-minded people and people who are willing to help each other on the way.

To me, that's invaluable.

P.S. I have always wondered whether there was a decent forum like this in Germany, but couldn't find a single one.

[ExomatrixTV]

I hope @SoulValor (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?48650-SoulValor) comes back soon ... he has not responded yet ... :phone:

[SoulValor]

Thanks so much for all your replies so far! :sun:
Quite profound and helpful stuff. :bearhug:

LOL, before I pick up a few things there's something I just noticed in my original post:


I was an early listener/watcher of Project Camelot, back in the good old days when Bryan was still around

Bryan?? :haha: Apparently nobody else here noticed, either? :biggrin: (Or you guys are too polite)

What's further funny is that actually "Bryan" isn't even incorrect - technically speaking. "Bill Ryan" = "B-ryan". :ROFL:

Just so you know, I've been known to do these type of errors/spelling mistakes....sometimes real freudian slips. Sometimes I catch them before submitting, but sometimes I don't. And often when I see them when proofreading they can actually be quite profound - to me at least. It's like I'm giving myself a message or further information...sometimes I even give myself the answer through the "spelling mistake" or "wrong word". (And I truly wonder how I ended up typing that and not noticing (when I wrote it)) :blink:


Constructive criticism on a higher level without using "name-callings" nor judgemental rhetoric.

Constructive Criticism is a good keyword, Exomatrix! I've been known to engage in such criticism a lot, it's just my nature (I'm a Scorpio). I do choose my words carefully (usually) and I always have the intention of
- just pointing out to make the person or group aware
- once aware, let's work on the solution or improvement

Now as you can image that doesn't fly well with people, even when they are very spiritual and of "high awarenes". Well, apparently they're not!

Also, I don't like contradcitions - and when I point those out that's not well received either. So yeah, you can imagine where some of my disappointment/disillusion has stemmed from. And why it leads me to crawl back into my scorpion desert cave. (Where is the scorpion emoji? :spider: )

Oh and btw - I know full well that when I opt to criticize I also need to allow others to criticize me. I am open to that and I try to live it. As a matter of fact, I enjoy such conversations provided the person criticising does it in a constructive/ foundational and respectful way.


Everything you put attention (energy) in to grows!

Exactly! I learned this profound wisdom from Ian Lungold many years ago (though he might have picked it up from somebody else):
"Energy flows where attention goes"

That's worth repeating:

"Energy flows where attention goes"

Ian passed away way too soon - I guess he didn't really follow his own advice. He seemed to be a bit on the wrong track with his Maya timeline preditions too....he was TOO urgent about them, he might have paid for that heavy energy investment with his death.

So yeah as for online discussion - who and what ddo you want to energize? What group? What subject? And does that give you energy back to you? If so, does that "reply-energy" or energy-exchange feel positive and/or is helpful in making you grow? (Enter "criticism") As I often found the reciprocal energy wasn't good or actually harmful...or sometimes there wasn't even any at all...that's not a nice feeling when you get ignored! Or even just certain points that you made. Like 80% of what you wrote or said you get feedback on but for the 20% that was really important to you or where you thought were the most important for the subject or discusion you do not...:crazy: That's kind of a strange phenomenon in and of itself!


How you treat others so you will be treated ... if not you did what you could and move on.

Well, that's the thing. I wish it was that simple. I often found myself drawing people to me (online) (or maybe it was the other way around - who knows), that did not reflect the way I treat others. For instance, there was a time where I was extremely engaged with an online group and then I found out that a lot of them were liars and pretty much the whole group construct/outward appearance was a lie too (of immense proportions). And it was set up in this way on purpose to lure people in. It was pretty much sect and cult-like. Well, sorry but I am not a liar - I hate lies and striving for truth is one of the most important and vitalizing things for me. Even if the truth is ugly and uncomfortable. So this is an example where I actually don't understand how I drew that into my life - since the saying usually goes "like attracts like". But maybe it isn't as simple as that either....


but you can inspire others to reevaluate their (self imposed limited) behavior

Yeah....I think I actually suceeded in that regard several times. Even though the consequence was separation from those people or groups (by them or by me). I think that the reevalution and even a followed betterment often took quite a while though.


Anyway welcome to Project Avalon Family @SoulValor

Thank you John! :cheers:



There are millions of postings here and frankly some threads I have wasted time reading.

Haha, that cracked me up, Jack. I think we all have experienced this to one degree or another. Who knows though, in the end it may not turn out be a waste. And to Avalon's defense -
that kind of thing can happen with a lot of forums and groups. :wink:


Respect for fully showing who you are, off the bat. You didn't need to do that. Maybe in your mind, you did... I respect that mindset, if that is the case. You also could've made an account under a name like OrangeOveralls373 and interacted in a similar manner with people here, I guess? I don't know.

Interesting you raise that point, 1212is24.
Personally I'm very much for showing oneself - this kind of ties into my point 3 in my original post:

- Being unsatisfied by online exchanges because it misses the physical expressions (face and body), gestures, the tone and voice, the actual laughter or cries or whatever, etc

If I would like to see my opposite's faces and try to get soem type of seriousness and Real Life vibe into the online world then I need to lead by example, right? In a way it is possible in a place like this (which is still limited)....
Of course I'm not inventing the wheel here so kudos to everyone who is "brave" enough to show themselves in this forum.
You know, one can hate facebook all they want and I'm certainly not a fan of it (anymore) but I find it a big advantage that people NEED to show themselves there and cannot hide behind some stupid fictitious name and cartoon avatar. So they are less inclinded to write sh*t and act like sh*t on their pages or in FB groups.

Yes Yes I know - a lot of people still do nonetheless even with their real selves (which is baffling) and some
are bypassing the rules and use fake names or even use complete fake profiles (beside their regular profile). And yes, I'm also aware of the intelligence gathering aspect of FB. But that goes on all over
the net so what is one supposed to do? Cower in fear and forever hide yourself behind a cartoon meme? Why limit yourself and let them rule you? As far as I'm concerned then they have already won.

I'm sorry in case I'm offending users who are using non-photo avatars here. I do understand that people have various reasons for that and I can and do respect that. But I find it to be a shame nonetheless, especially
if it was done out of the wrong reasons. Wrong reasons to my mind: I'm ugly, I'm too boring,I'm not worthy,I'm too good looking,somebody's stalking me, somebody could be stalking me,"they" or somebody else could target me,etc...


What I will say is this... One thing I've noticed about Germans -- no offence -- is that you guys like to measure things a lot. When you say it's about "time" when you write anything online, what is time? What if you were to write inside a private journal each day? Would you restrict each entry to a certain number of words, or a certain number of minutes of writing time? I'm not asking this to be silly either, I'm genuinely curious. I know a lot of people are meticulous about how they do things. If it works for them (or you), that's great. I am just saying... Such a rigid approach doesn't seem aligned with the 'universe' in many ways, if you catch my drift.

:haha: I like your spirit, 1212is24. Just be honest and outspoken. :D You know, I can see what you're getting at but I really don't know if I fall into that stereotype. As a matter of fact, I do not see time
as linear anymore and I don't like any type of restrictions. So nooooo, I want to be able to write as many words as I want to and also speak as many words as I want to! (One reason why I don't like Twitter)
However, I do try to be structured and on point. But since I'm also very deep going, things can become long nonetheless (something people often have a problem with). So the "using up too much time" comes a lot from myself. So maybe I should live up more to be a strict/meticulous German!?? :biggrin:

As I mentioned in the beginning, I have been having several important projects going on (e.g. I've been working on a music album), so time does become critical and it is quite a dilemma. Just a matter of harsh reality. All of these projects give me joy and are of a lenghty time-consuming nature. So if I could I would create more time or clone/split myself. :haha: But those skills I have not learned yet. :D Can you relate?

Btw, along those lines and one thing I actually wanted to mention originally too:
when I got to the point of simply being tired of typing I found out about voice messages. And seeing that had increased as an option in various places (skype, facebook) I started resorting to that. At first I really enjoyed it as it allowed me (and my opposites) to convery more of oneself than just one's writing abilities (voice, tone, speech).

But then that became tiring and tedious too - because I usually would record much longer than intended (I really go on rants sometimes and I'm quite communicative). Which then would lead to my conversation partners to record long answers too. :haha: So the problem would become time again. :facepalm:
And also, quite often, people seem to have short attention spans or tend to be forgetful so wouldn't reply to points I would make or inquired about in my recordings. So that became unsatisfying too.


I once met a guy who had been 'catfished' online before I even know what the word meant.

Well, I didn't know until this point either. Funny thing - I don't like catfish. :haha: And as matter of fact I have been catfhished as well - several times. That was mostly in the magician/witches scene.
It is qute common there (for practioners of the black arts) to set up fake personalities - for various reasons. So yeah, this contributed to my disillusionment too. Especially when you find yourself really liking a (female) user and conversing with "her" for quite some time - just to then find out "she" is fake. :frusty:

I should mention here that I'm not some gullible naive person that easily falls for stuff -
but back in those days I was certainly still somewhat naive and "they" (black magicians/witches) targeted me for a while so they actually went to a lot of effort of making a profile of me and then "serving" me what I liked and in a way that they knew would resonate with me (a downside of being so open and communicative).
I guess the reasons where manifold:

-extract information from me

-suck energy from me

-further weaken me by once again crashing my positive spirit and faith in humanity (when finding out that (once again) I was being lied to/sucked in by a fake)

But hey....I'm still here. :wizard:



Real life is always better.

Always? I doubt it. You could easily fall prey to a faker/blender/dishonest person in real life too and many people have. And then it might be even more hurtful.

Some people can do the blending better in person than online. As a matter of fact,
certain manipulation techniques can only be perfomed or can be better performed in close phyiscal proximity. Certain hand gestures for instance or even facial expressions. NLP. Also a more direct accessing of the person's energy field, their chakras etc. I think you somewhat underestimate the possiblities and actualities here, 1212is24.

I guess you never have run into such deceitful people/tricksters in real life (or online) so far, especially from the dark occult - or maybe you haven't noticed yet. If the former is the case then just be grateful for that.



For what it is worth, I think you seem like a decent person with your heart in the right place. I've got nothing but respect for you. Happy new year!

Thank you! :sun: Same to you!


I have been on many internet forums all over the world, started in the old days when there was a such thing called the BBS.

I remember those too, Anu Raman! There was some good, simple stuff in the old days of the internet. As a matter of fact, you really got to dislike how things have developed on the net. Back then it was pretty much a law-free zone, true freedom of speech and a big spirit of sharing stuff...And there were no ads or pop-ups.! And even wikipedia was a place to find information you could not find anywhere else. And on the search engines you could find "woo-woo" stuff right on the first results page. Now, most of that has become mainstream and overly commercialized. :/ Quite frankly, I never thought the internet
would go that way....as a matter of fact, I had high hopes that this would be the breakthrough to change the system and remove the bad people from the top. I guess in a way is still is or may be,
but not as fast and free as I had initially thought.


I have shared information which is privy to the very few. Most of what I had written is pretty much non-existent today.

Why not write/publish it again - here on Avalon? In case you haven't already.


It is true that it gets frustrating trying to reach people. I have accepted the fact, that it's like some system out there, attempting to block me from fully sharing.

Yes, there is something in place to restrict/limit/frustrate/disillusion people like us. And - among others - magic means are employed for that. (See my comment on dark occulists above) I assume there are certain entities (EMEs?) responsible for that. More on the active dynamic side whereas there is also a general passive kind of "spell" going on that has people under their grasp and throwing obstacles at people like us. On the positive side this makes for great spiritual growth for us and we get the chance to expand our awareness and energetic/magical arsenal (to protect and defend ourselves but also to break through and also help others). Thanks for the reminder!


I had my share of negative responses from many. Some were extremely toxic towards of what I had written.

Now I'm REALLY curious. :biggrin:


I wanted to tell a story about the ancients. I know so much about them.. but again, I am not really willing to write it up all over again because my words are just that.. words..
cheap... as in 'talk is cheap'... it attracts certain attention to this subject as well.

Hmmmm, ok. You have no notes saved whatsoever from that time? It's not like you would have to write it in the same style or with the same words again. After all, you progressed too and surely
more informaton has come to the puzzle for you.


I saw it on the old David Icke forum where in the end, people were really tired.

Hello, Icare. Thanks for the welcome. :) Yes, I remember that old forum too. I read alot there and was quite heavily into David Icke. Good old times? Things have changed since then....(see my more general comment
on the internet above). I think that is why Project Avalon is so remarkable. It truly has been steady over all these years. And hasn't really encountered a lot of that chaos and strife most forums or groups have
- sooner or later. Though I can't say this for certain as I have not been reading here all that time. Maybe I missed out on some real bad stuff. All I know what I'm seeing now and have for the past two years - which looks to me that this forum has made it through the times rather unscathed.(?)


P.S. I have always wondered whether there was a decent forum like this in Germany, but couldn't find a single one.

Hmmm, let me think. One thing that comes to my mind was a forum called Matrix or something like that. But that was back in those old days too - around 2006/07 I think. I remember the main guy who ran
his website (where the forum was attached to), it was very consciousness expanding and helped me on my path. I recently stumbled upon him again so I'm glad he's still around.
Though it looks like he got a bit too much on the commercial/ego side now too and the forum doesn't exist anymore (at least not in that form). In case you're interested:
https://www.matrixblogger.de/

Also, remember Jo Conrad? He was one of my first "sources". He's still around too and still pretty authentic. He used to have a good forum too. That one is still around but he doesn't moderate it anymore, sometimes he still posts something but that's rare. The place is quite unmoderated these days, which in a way is cool but on the other hand the discussion culture really leaves something to be desired.
If you don't know it and are interested:
http://www.freigeistforum.com/forum/index.php


I hope @SoulValor comes back soon ... he has not responded yet ..

Been posting in other places of the forum. ;-) This will not be uncommon with me. I usually move around until I come back. Responses are not usually immediate.

Btw, the length of this reply post is a case in point regarding my nature and the time issue. :biggrin: But I loved every minute of it! So once again, thanks ya'll!

[Chester]

The role this forum played in my life is irreplaceable.

[QueenRia]

...it often entailed/ended up in negative experiences - disappointment in other members reactions or behaviours (including mods & admins) or the draining of energy via discussions of a pointless or parasitic nature.

I've had similar experiences, especially since I started my "Redpill" journey in 2021 and tried to connect with like-minded people online, in Telegram groups and one other well known forum in the truther community.

What I think is happening is that a lot of infiltration is going on in the online truther groups. My suspicion is that there is sophisticated AI being deployed, I don't mean just mindless bots, I mean real advanced AI that infiltrates public groups and discussions and tries to disrupt or dilute deep conversations, or sow discord and produce these parasitic vibes you mentioned.
I'm also going to venture to say that it's probably not just AI infiltration but also 'demonic' infiltration, acting through toxic people. And it doesn't seem to be uncommon for these toxic people to rise to mod/admin positions, at least that's what I've seen on TG.

On that other forum I've had a really weird, shocking experience which I believe was caused by AI-infiltration. I'm still puzzled over this and I need to investigate more about what happened there, I just didn't have the energy yet. But it certainly makes me appreciate the application process on the Avalon forum, and the fact that "BRyan" as you said :D is keeping a close eye on it! This is a mind war, so it makes sense that any place where people discuss important ideas will be a target for infiltration and attack by the dark side.

Anyway, I just joined Avalon and I'm getting a completely different vibe here, much more positive. :-)

[Sue (Ayt)]

Welcome, QueenRia!
Yes, we do have our alerts up too, for possible infiltration.
And we encourage members to communicate with Bill and the mod team if they notice or suspect any nefarious stuff so it can be examined and worked out.

There is a little triangle with an exclamation point in it on the bottom left of each post that generates an instant private report about the post to the mod team.
And everyone is also encouraged to communicate about any concerns directly to Bill or any mod with a PM.
:flower:

[Bill Ryan]

Anyway, I just joined Avalon and I'm getting a completely different vibe here, much more positive. :-)And a VERY warm welcome to our lovely community!

:heart:

[HopSan]

What I think is happening is that a lot of infiltration is going on in the online truther groups. My suspicion is that there is sophisticated AI being deployed, I don't mean just mindless bots, I mean real advanced AI ...

Welcome, Ria, and others, curious,

As an 'expert' of AI, since 90's, I'd like to lessen your worries.

A real AI is not happening, but a sophisticated bluff is happening.
The purpose is to to scare fine people, including you.

[Edit: I can explain and talk about this endlessly. Prepare, takes a lot of your time. Try, and be relieved! ]

[Michel Leclerc]

What I think is happening is that a lot of infiltration is going on in the online truther groups. My suspicion is that there is sophisticated AI being deployed, I don't mean just mindless bots, I mean real advanced AI ...

Welcome, Ria, and others, curious,

As an 'expert' of AI, since 90's, I'd like to lessen your worries.

A real AI is not happening, but a sophisticated bluff is happening.
The purpose is to to scare fine people, including you.

[Edit: I can explain and talk about this endlessly. Prepare, takes a lot of your time. Try, and be relieved! ]

Dear HopSan – enlighten me. What do you mean exactly by: “A real AI is not happening, but a sophisticated bluff is happening.”

Why would the bluff not be “scaring”? And how scaring would the real AI then be in that case?
?

As an expert of AI, you will be of course full of highly relevant thoughts. I guess I can understand that you would be able to talk about it endlessly.

Why would you not try and be concise about the most essential points justifying your assurance?

[HopSan]

As an 'expert' of AI, since 90's, I'd like to lessen your worries.

A real AI is not happening, but a sophisticated bluff is happening.
The purpose is to to scare fine people, including you.

Dear HopSan – enlighten me. What do you mean exactly...



Thanks, as you can guess...

I am not someone, with full truths.

But, as an 'expert' of semantics, I have much to say.

The question is of the point... Of meaning.

This is 1-pct-of important things. I have wasted N yrs to understand this.

[Bill Ryan]

What I think is happening is that a lot of infiltration is going on in the online truther groups. My suspicion is that there is sophisticated AI being deployed, I don't mean just mindless bots, I mean real advanced AI ...

Welcome, Ria, and others, curious,

As an 'expert' of AI, since 90's, I'd like to lessen your worries.

A real AI is not happening, but a sophisticated bluff is happening.
The purpose is to to scare fine people, including you.

[Edit: I can explain and talk about this endlessly. Prepare, takes a lot of your time. Try, and be relieved! ]Here's a different thread on just this topic: :thumbsup:


AI is not happening, at all (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?123210-AI-is-not-happening-at-all)

[Bill Ryan]

And a closely related topic on this thread as well:


Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120133-Social-media-discussion-rarely-changes-anyone-s-minds.&highlight=discussion)

[shaberon]

What I think is happening is that a lot of infiltration is going on in the online truther groups.


Hi,

you have made an understatement.

Avalon is pretty clean, I think you could say everyone on here is "someone", nothing is being spoofed. And, you don't see much that really calls for moderation to start with, in fact what I see more of is "helpful utilities", i. e. a fix for something you posted that didn't work right. There's not a red hot mess like I have certainly seen on numerous other public sites.


There is still, I suppose, some amount of "fishing" you will have to do, along the lines of the remark I quoted. Now on the one hand, I tend to agree with what HopSan said about the AI--the thing itself is not "coming to get you", however, the fear of this will be glad to. The same is true, for example, in the case of One World Government, particularly as directed by the World Economic Forum.

So, there is a tendency to get overly excited about some things that shouldn't matter.

I, personally, am something of a hound for what you might call "infiltration"...I would say that almost everything that may have started with good intentions was eventually changed for the worse. Or that something false covered something that was true. Therefor, a lot of the things I have to say are hyper-critical if not combative towards certain statements and ideas. But it is without a personal anything against other members...it is entirely possible to disagree without using a single unnecessary asinine childish outburst.

To put this another way, the questionable things seen on the internet about particularly Ukraine and Israel have given a massive Confirmation Bias to the majority of what I would have said I was talking about, and, it seems to me, that "people" don't quite get it--in some cases I guess it has not come to their attention yet. This is difficult stuff, and, it may be long, slow, painful lessons yet to come.

I would be willing to say that among some of the posting members, there may be around a 70-80% consensus on what we think we know, combined with a sort of righteous indignation about it all. So there is usually some common ground as a general motivation.

[Mike]

And a closely related topic on this thread as well:


Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120133-Social-media-discussion-rarely-changes-anyone-s-minds.&highlight=discussion)



I've always thought that a positive and maybe even revolutionary way of interacting online would involve 2 people with opposing views striving to do their absolute best to "steel man" the other person's argument..instead of continually butting heads and lobbing the same arguments and insults back and forth.

If there was ever a way of getting people to change their minds, this might be it. But at the very least, it just might get people to understand each other a little more and replace all the hostility with a semblance of respect.

Plus, superficially anyway it might be entertaining and fun. I've been ranting and raving about the same crap over and over again for years now; I'm as sure as I can be that I'm largely right about most of it, but maybe I'm missing something. I think it would be a useful exercise for everyone, mentally and emotionally.

[Gemma13]

And a closely related topic on this thread as well:


Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120133-Social-media-discussion-rarely-changes-anyone-s-minds.&highlight=discussion)



I've always thought that a positive and maybe even revolutionary way of interacting online would involve 2 people with opposing views striving to do their absolute best to "steel man" the other person's argument..instead of continually butting heads and lobbing the same arguments and insults back and forth.

If there was ever a way of getting people to change their minds, this might be it. But at the very least, it just might get people to understand each other a little more and replace all the hostility with a semblance of respect.

Plus, superficially anyway it might be entertaining and fun. I've been ranting and raving about the same crap over and over again for years now; I'm as sure as I can be that I'm largely right about most of it, but maybe I'm missing something. I think it would be a useful exercise for everyone, mentally and emotionally.

Geezuz Mike, you been remote viewing my brain? This is the premise for a sitcom I'm working on. 😛

Two mates set up steel-manning comps with each other on a range of topics. The idea is to demonstrate, (in a witty, entertaining fashion), how smart, ignorant, dumb, and foolish both sides are before they arrive at light bulb moments. In other words, show the public how to do it, and they might emulate it. That's one part of the project anyway.

Great minds is it then :clapping:

[QueenRia]

Welcome, QueenRia!

And a VERY warm welcome to our lovely community!

Thank you so much Bill and Sue! 😀🙏



A real AI is not happening, but a sophisticated bluff is happening.

That's interesting, I recently heard Clif High say something similar and wanted to know more. I'll definitely check out the thread Bill linked!

What I meant by AI in this case is bots who are so good at 'pretending to be people' that you can't tell the difference. If this is "not happening" (why wouldn't it though, is it not possible to develop a technology that can emulate a 'digital person' so it seems real? -- maybe that question will be answered on the other thread).
...so if it's not highly advanced bots, then it would be real people (or NPC, I can see how that would be a good explanation!). Then we have to account for many many many toxic people in the truther and spiritual communities, or even worse, many 'dark agents' who know what they're doing, and I have a harder time imagining so many toxic real people than imagining advanced AI-bots. 🤔

So my current theory is, that these toxic, parasitic energies that SoulValor is talking about are deliberately infused. I do not believe they are an inherent feature of online communication.
The means of HOW they are infused is the only thing I'm not sure about.



I've always thought that a positive and maybe even revolutionary way of interacting online would involve 2 people with opposing views striving to do their absolute best to "steel man" the other person's argument..instead of continually butting heads and lobbing the same arguments and insults back and forth.

There's also the possibility of two or more people with open minds probing into the Unknown, coming up with different theories and perspectives, inspiring each other to think/feel/remember deeper. This could apply, for example, to discussions about the nature of reality which are my favorites. 😁
("Infiltration" in these kind of discussions is happening too in my experience.)

[Mari]

" There's also the possibility of two or more people with open minds probing into the Unknown, coming up with different theories and perspectives, inspiring each other to think/feel/remember deeper. This could apply, for example, to discussions about the nature of reality which are my favorites. 😁
("Infiltration" in these kind of discussions is happening too in my experience.) "


Welcome, QueenRia.

To add to the mix is the fact that everyone of us contributes to the 'mix' via our own unique interpretations of reality. This comes from our own perspectives - formed, not just by academia as such, but basically our 'expectations' of what we either want, think or expect the world 'should' be like. A group of people can be looking at one particular 'truth' being presented to them, but each one will de-code that 'fact' into a 'truth' that snugly fits their own version of reality. This is fine - its the way we are meant to operate and as such, goes a long way in preventing a global hive-mind, something the controllers are desperate for us to morph into, aided via the obsession with hand-held devices.

[shaberon]

I've always thought that a positive and maybe even revolutionary way of interacting online would involve 2 people with opposing views striving to do their absolute best to "steel man" the other person's argument..instead of continually butting heads and lobbing the same arguments and insults back and forth.

If there was ever a way of getting people to change their minds, this might be it. But at the very least, it just might get people to understand each other a little more and replace all the hostility with a semblance of respect.


This is what I don't get.

As primarily a non-net speaker, when I tried this, I also joined one more site in addition to Avalon. I posted something there, and received a highly arrogant deluge of "I said so", which was more like a bulldozer, than it interacted with anything I said.

Civilization is built by debates, not grandstanding.

As an American, though, I have next to nothing in common with my peers. I am more a product of the Shaolin martial arts umbrella. Our discussions typically do not involve most things that westerners seem to be obsessed with. It's really, really difficult to bridge the gap. So far, I have not got the least bit of understanding what it is like to think that way. I can just tell, physically, that if I had been raised like that, I would be tremendously unhappy and confused. I sort of don't want to know.

Admittedly it has been rather difficult to compare fine points, but, at least here, I can post them without being swarmed.

[Michel Leclerc]

Thank you Bill, to point out the other link – which I had read in part earlier. The discussion is really going on there.

[SoulValor]

Hello QueenRia,
thank you for your reply in this thread and basically re-igniting it. :sun:
I guess it's an important subject after all.

What I came across in my experiences was probably mostly demonic influences/attachments/possessions. I don't rule out AI but I think that's rather a new phenomena in this area (in terms of bots or maybe people
being influenced/possessed by nano technology and AI at large. Vax anyone??). And I haven't really been active in internet communities or social media for the last 5 years or so and my activity was already in decline before that. My experience with such communities or online communication in general (the good ole messengers and chats ;)) goes way back til the early 2000s and even late 90s. I rode the internet wave early. :typing:

At that point of course I wasn't that aware yet of the astral energies that take hold of people and influence/steer their behaviour. But I could already gauge that something was wrong in those days. It became stronger and more apparent with the advent of social media and more and more people including juveniles having access to them via mobile phones. Thus it became VERY crowded and noisy and quantity over quality. So these parasites in whatever shape or form have been having a field day with that!

And as we know "they" have become more and more visible and active and brazen over the past 15 years or so anyway. I guess the internet and all out conectiveness that the world population has reached helps them. Maybe they were even the driving force behind that.? Fortunately, it also exposes them more. ;) But maybe that didn't/doesn't bother them too much because many people who get confrontated with the realization of their existence and how they have penetrated our system and society become afraid or psychotic or what not. Which is again something they can feed off of...

So yeah, that's a huge bummer and "party spoiler" what social (internet) life is concerned but IMO at the end of the day it IS a good thing that more and more people become aware of the parasites/negative entities through this! So we learn to put up our guards, be more careful about what and who we spend our energy and time on, and make wiser decisions!

So what was it for you, QueenRia, that made you aware of these negative infestations, especially in online communications? It seems we have something in common here.

For me it became very obvious and "in your face" when I was engaged in forums and FB groups that dealt with magic, alchemy and witchcraft. Topics that I was extremely interested in (and still am to a degree). And even though I'm extremely grateful for everything I learned/picked up on through these communities they also made me very disillusioned. I delved into it having a positive image of witches (as in classical pagan witches of the old days, women that worked with nature and the astral world to heal/support the people and the earth) and also shamans, wizards etc - but that changed rather quickly.

Yes, there are good ones out there, engaged in the "white art" or a tolerable/understandable "grey art" but to me the majority of them, at least online, is into the black arts. People with hugely inflated egos and malevolent/mischievous intents. Engaged in energy vampirism in all kinds of forms and they're even proud about it!
And you come across people there that literally worship and conjure up demons (or satan himself) and "work" with them. Making pacts and deals with them. Either on an indiviual level or with an entire coven. It's really crazy and sad/terrifying/annoying. But at least they are open about it online (many of them but not all), even though the majority of them don't really understand what they are getting/have gotten themselves into. Especially the young people.

But as we know this stuff also goes on in high up places where they are NOT open about it (in public). And are most extreme! It's possible that the "big guys" in terms of demons or whatever are primarily working with the higher up humans and have all their minions work on the "lower" humans (which themselves then become minions), all in accordance (more or less working towards the same goals), in all kinds of areas and places. But like already mentioned, especially in the online world. Because it's really easy there for them.

People can take on all kinds of identities here, even multiple, without having to show their face. Since I had a forum on my own a few years back (on the subject matters I mentioned earlier) I had to deal with such people quite a lot - it was shocking at first and nerve wrecking. Then I got used to it which was a bad thing because often my first thoughts about new members were "hmm, could this be a fake?" Sometimes, they were indeed and often you cannot find out for sure. Of course this rubbed off on my moderators too (though they had their own similar experiences as well). Our forum even requested users to use actual photos as avatars for this reason (and for several other ones). And as we know there are some sites that request that too like Facebook (though not really) but guess what? These people just use photos from oher people then and pretend to be somebody else (or even that person in the photograph!). Sure that's illegal but these people don't care and let's face it - the police has enough things to do. So basically these "people" can hide in the shadows yet fully engage. And if they get kicked out our banned they find ways to come back. Only strong magical measures or banishments will work at that point. :wizard: :shielddeflect:
But that can be exhausting too...

Of course these entities can do all this on the same level with real world/offline engagement/encounters too. But when you get to know someone let's say by chance at a supermarket and you talk to them it will become apparent much quicker if there's something wrong with the person. The way they look, speak, mimic, behave, the aura they give off! A lot of this is missing in the online world! And of course that works towards their advantage!

Granted, one can still gauge and feel if there's something strange or iffy about an online user....especially the more experienced you get. But often you also don't want to judge anyone unfairly, especially since you don't really know them and also, online things are more prone to be just misunderstandings (given the lack of the aspects above). But before you realize it or are firm in your conclusions it's often too late already and the damage is done. And the "damage" can be as little as having discussed several hours of your lifetime with this iffy - up to no good - person (rather, their attached entity/energy) and maybe a couple more hours with the admin or mods as to what to make of that person. In other words, they WILL have sucked your energy to some degree which is exactly what they came for. And you have to recuperate.

If you experience that over many years, many times, and if you gained insights like I have wth the magic/witchcraft community and also the astral realm directly (through conscious astral travels but also dreams) you just get to the point of not wanting to bother with anyone anymore. Even in the "real world". Because these infestations have grown very strong and pervasive IMO. You can see that with the rise of disorders, diseases and disabilities, and phenomena like the woke and cancel culture, splatter movies and games, bascially the overall observable degeneration of art and human society. These days, you can never be sure anymore if you're dealing with a real human being (a 100% human being!) or the true person that they really are. Put alcohol, drugs and medication into the mix and it's even worse....

Once I understood the vast scope of this (which on the upside explained a lot - Like I finally understood the cause of all this crap!) I kept pondering why this is all allowed to take place here on earth. Why is it such a "field" that the dark entities can have a field day with?? Who's granting them permission? Most humans that are infested or attached by them never actually granted them permission to do so (exceptions are those people I mentioned in the beginning - and even with those there's a catch). Not on a conscious level. But it seems that the entities don't care. They have their own rules if you can even call it that.?

So what abut checks and balances? Yes, there are also the "opposite" entities if you will - like guardians and angels. And I know that first hand too! But then you get into this whole "good vs evil" game/shtick/pattern that doesn't really seem to make much sense in the long run either. Especially since it's been going on for centuries and millenia here on this earth! So what's the point? Why is it being allowed to go on and on and on?? With always news manifestations and intricacies (like with the online world)? I'm trully disillusioned by this.....

I'm sorry that I went off of on a tangent here. I would really be interested in what conclusions others here in this forum have arrived at regarding this subject matter. How do you deal with it and what consequences have you drawn? It seems to me that I'm not the only one that has deciced to withdraw himself from society at large...which of course comes with the downside that it can emphasize the feeling of being lonely. But at least we're healthier and have "cleaner" energies that are more true to ourselves.? But why do we often have to pay heavy prices for that?

To be fair, my experiences were a lot more positive in the first few years of my engagement with the internet. There were some really cool forums and chat groups. I met some really interesting and fascinating people who became friends too (even though that didn't last). You know, back in the days when the net was innocent and much less controlled....Which is kind of paradoxical, is it not??

p.s. @ QueenRia: Herzlich Willkommen auch von mir. :) Du bist schuld, dass ich mich hier mal wieder eingeloggt und jetzt so viel geschrieben habe. :P

[Gemma13]

I've always thought that a positive and maybe even revolutionary way of interacting online would involve 2 people with opposing views striving to do their absolute best to "steel man" the other person's argument..instead of continually butting heads and lobbing the same arguments and insults back and forth.

If there was ever a way of getting people to change their minds, this might be it. But at the very least, it just might get people to understand each other a little more and replace all the hostility with a semblance of respect.


This is what I don't get.

As primarily a non-net speaker, when I tried this, I also joined one more site in addition to Avalon. I posted something there, and received a highly arrogant deluge of "I said so", which was more like a bulldozer, than it interacted with anything I said.

Civilization is built by debates, not grandstanding.

As an American, though, I have next to nothing in common with my peers. I am more a product of the Shaolin martial arts umbrella. Our discussions typically do not involve most things that westerners seem to be obsessed with. It's really, really difficult to bridge the gap. So far, I have not got the least bit of understanding what it is like to think that way. I can just tell, physically, that if I had been raised like that, I would be tremendously unhappy and confused. I sort of don't want to know.

Admittedly it has been rather difficult to compare fine points, but, at least here, I can post them without being swarmed.

Ah debates, I now find them frustrating and utterly useless. An intellectual sport that sinks any objective for moral outcome and utility beneath a ton of academic, or political, arsenal; academic and political bullsh!t in layman's terms.

Astounds me that the grown-ups in this sport, the Olympic team players hashing it out in public, are blind to the seductions peddled within their esteemed buildings. None of them recognize that getting high on academic spin in a debate is antithetical to any potential progress aspired to at the outset.

No, wait, I did hear one competitor, (Peterson) offer up an admission after self-reflection. I shifted into an obsession to win the debate, he said. It was wrong, he said. Ah, yeah, because if you guys can’t see that your institutions lure you into labyrinths of endless intellectual spin, on purpose, we’re f*cked.

What message are they sending to the masses, the ground crew? Win at any cost. There is no greater cause. Trade your sanity, sell your soul, do whatever the f*ck it takes.

Criticizing isn’t enough. Never has been, and never will be. It must be followed up with practical innovation, utility, and action. I’m tired of hearing good people out there with global superpowers ask the same question, over and over again: What can we do to stop the madness in our world?

Unity within the ranks of reason is imperative, and urgent, if we want to evolve past back-and-forth egoistic posturing and criticisms to engineer common ground solutions on a global scale that do not favour the few and the mentally insane. But how?

I strongly believe commoners can help now that we have reasonable access to media. Heck, someone has to take action to de-cult some of our greatest thinkers. You know, give ‘em a good wake-up slap on the chops. Illustrate how they can and should group their superpowers – finance, morality, influence – for a common purpose like, I dunno, engineering a catalyst movement that annihilates all the “Hunger Games” movements and all the movements seducing people back to the Dark Ages.

A movement that spells out practical utility coupled with moral purpose and common sense in a sophisticated and fun way, so that the five-year-olds in the room get it. Steel manning between friendlies would be an effective tool to highlight ludicrous mind games into extinction. We’d have to remind some and educate others that common sense is a thing though.

It’s way past time our intellectual superpowers got their Spartan-300 on.

[shaberon]

Ah debates, I now find them frustrating and utterly useless. An intellectual sport that sinks any objective for moral outcome and utility beneath a ton of academic, or political, arsenal; academic and political bullsh!t in layman's terms.


Yes, I was talking about Civilization, not our current state of affairs.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/hypatia-death-street.jpg



This needs to be sorted before just anyone can be allowed to the table.

Games of word salad that fuel the status quo are of no particular interest either.

Slimy issue-dodging is the impression I get of most of that. And I suppose most of the educational curriculum is sanitized. Maybe I had a few perks. In 1983, we read 1984 and discussed it as a class, which, may have been the one time that a large group of people seemed to coherently make sense. This did not stick and I suppose it is *not* common in everyone's background. Similarly, the general panel of "think tanks" does not usually represent anything I would advocate.

On the grand scheme of things, a lot of that is past the point of words and comes down to force. And I would suggest that a lot of "think tank" argument contains the subliminal assertion of force. If it won't relent to reason, then, you remove it, or, it removes you.

Part of Mike's comment I was responding to was to defuse the hostility out of a disagreement. And so we are confronted with a paradox of having a Civilized table around which to disagree, perhaps strongly. Some level of that isn't going to just go away. I would call it a challenge to handle safely, not "Win at any cost". If we were to say no human being is excluded from the discussion, it would be with the caveat that the wrong attitude disqualifies you. Especially if you try to hide it.

I mean it literally as a living tribute to Hypatia. I would say something was broken then that is now, in the character of messing up our ability to speak to each other.

[Agape]

...take a break..

I don't mean to offend anyone. Talking and overly engaged individuals and rhetoricians are notorious and always existed.

If you wish to delve somewhat deeper to their overproductive output quite like any other output and activity it mostly does have to do something with hormonal balance and disbalance.

Some have been born that way and others become hyperactive after illness or injury 🤕.

Do your own research on the topic of ADHD.

No it does not concern only "online discussions", and from global observation view point and since we have nearly eradicated illiteracy people seem to do nothing else than talk, 90% of their waking time.

The sophistication of their discussion increases exponentially with what they judge as "succesful debate time" amounting to years n years of talking in case of some individuals making them feel more interesting about themselves and more skilled in subversive tactics of discussion.

Even among those who are "genuine" and mean "really well" in their effort to comment on others input,
being not educated in "all subjects", not trained counselors or mental health professionals the energy runs over their intents and competences easily and they do end up hurting each other's sentiments almost relentlessly.

One of the most difficult feats is to convince someone who are of that habit and verbal tangent that you actually don't want to talk.

It may or not be a personal issue ( which after all concerns them the most, exploiting others personal issues is far easier than turn it all off for some)

yet , they do react as offended and hyper reactive chemical bomb on such occassions and repeatedly

agressively attacking the point on "why you don't want to talk to them" because ...

you should :)

They will convince you of being :

a/too lonely
b/oh so desperate
c/so difficult to understand
d/nearly suicidial
e/quite off because whatever has happened in your life
f/deceptive for not stripping yourself off with them
g/probably somewhere else in life than you told them many years ago
h/hysterical by the sight or way they see you, desirous of "other people than them"

I/linguistically insufficient

and so forth .. for them the list never , ever ends..

in sum : completely dull because or unless you wanted to have a chat with their complex of superiority.


Most of them are not genuine students of anything after passing certain age of life,
the energy cat out of the bag , they can't be "reined in" and under control 🕹️, as middle agers and elders ,
they become oppressive to their colleagues and banned from schools and universities once they take it out on someone genuinely grown up.

It's really difficult to convince "modern humans" if one is not "interested in them" but whatever else it may be one is interested especially if not "wanting to talk about it".

They use side looks and many kinds of subtle provocations before applying sophisticated programs and cia manuals "to make you talk".


But no, there isn't any "end of the talk" anywhere near.

They are manipulative at the best and spoil lots of matter-of-fact matters and convince each other that white is black and black is white and take most of your precious time and energy away.

Most importantly though: "they had a good (or bad) discussion".


What I'm really implying here is that those people have inundated internet discussions the most and taken the precious time/space for genuine seekers of whatever truth who genuinely hoped to talk about something.

Rather than about the "art of talking" and how important it is to them to "say things right".


The most mysterious thing you ever want to say to those people is nothing.

Because they can write a book about you saying nothing .

( That in jest).

They are most perplexed by those of us who really don't want "to talk" not because we can't but because we can stop it.

Because if you can't "stop it" it means you have never brought your tongue under control and never accessed your higher intelligence centers permitting you TO THINK instead,
all critically, calmly and by yourself or even "not to think" by choice which is even more difficult feat than "not talking".

The next think they'd really want to ask...

is "what are you thinking about everyday" and give you advanced polygraph test to find out whether it's true ,

and dissect your mind so that all you better think about is them and their ways.

Just take a break, it does not hurt.

[Gemma13]

Ah debates, I now find them frustrating and utterly useless. An intellectual sport that sinks any objective for moral outcome and utility beneath a ton of academic, or political, arsenal; academic and political bullsh!t in layman's terms.


Yes, I was talking about Civilization, not our current state of affairs.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/hypatia-death-street.jpg



This needs to be sorted before just anyone can be allowed to the table.

Games of word salad that fuel the status quo are of no particular interest either.

Slimy issue-dodging is the impression I get of most of that. And I suppose most of the educational curriculum is sanitized. Maybe I had a few perks. In 1983, we read 1984 and discussed it as a class, which, may have been the one time that a large group of people seemed to coherently make sense. This did not stick and I suppose it is *not* common in everyone's background. Similarly, the general panel of "think tanks" does not usually represent anything I would advocate.

On the grand scheme of things, a lot of that is past the point of words and comes down to force. And I would suggest that a lot of "think tank" argument contains the subliminal assertion of force. If it won't relent to reason, then, you remove it, or, it removes you.

Part of Mike's comment I was responding to was to defuse the hostility out of a disagreement. And so we are confronted with a paradox of having a Civilized table around which to disagree, perhaps strongly. Some level of that isn't going to just go away. I would call it a challenge to handle safely, not "Win at any cost". If we were to say no human being is excluded from the discussion, it would be with the caveat that the wrong attitude disqualifies you. Especially if you try to hide it.

I mean it literally as a living tribute to Hypatia. I would say something was broken then that is now, in the character of messing up our ability to speak to each other.

On one hand, I agree civilized discourse is what we should strive for. I just don’t believe it’s an optimal practice in the realities we endure. Sure, it has ushered in significant change, but it's always within a confined system that ultimately preserves power in the hands of a few to gift or deny life, liberty, and comfort to the masses at will. Even our democracies are ridiculously arranged to support this dilemma, not fix it – meritocracy is an illusion, for starters.

Most people never consider there’s something dreadfully wrong with the shape of the bowl we’re swimming around in, so they can’t even begin to imagine that there might be alternative shapes to sculpt besides the worn-out trio constantly on offer: Dictatorships; Monarchies; Pseudo-Democracies aka hybrids with cloaked emperors championing communism every which way to Sunday.

And how can it be any other way when sophisticated bullies and sociopaths – grand masters at exploiting agreeableness – lean back comfortably at the tables of civilized discourse without fear of a worthy challenge with attitude? And therein lies the paradox.

Dismissing “attitude” strengthens their arsenal and they truly are genius at conjuring ways for their opponents - everyone else - to emasculate themselves. Woke fragility, with all its delusional kumbaya, is the shiny castrating blade for the 21st century. And when your nuts are being cut off it's perfectly reasonable to expect uncivilized verbal abuse to fire indiscriminately at anyone and anything before the inevitable collapse into a sea of trophy-tears. Quite the norm these days.

All we need to do is find ways to harness and redirect the attitudes of our modern-day eunuchs toward common sense and moral utility when these things can generally be found as a common denominator suffocating underneath the engineered sanctimonious hostility.

Anyway, I’m obsessed with innovative strategies to help level the playing field. Mike’s suggestion resonated with me. I like the idea of two people sparring while having to use arsenal brought to the table by their opponent. It’s clever, albeit sacrificial. And I do think using a competitive, aggressive, friendly arena has valid potential to help raise and ultimately shift awareness.

Not all personalities have the ability to call up disciplined aggression to compete, but they don’t have to. They’re observers. And sociopaths will always exploit any game in town. But as a strategy to sway a significant portion of the masses into seeing reason and motivated intelligence to disable and dismantle control systems, it could work.

We have global communication at our disposal. Surely, it’s time we muscled up and started thinking outside the box for ways to seize control of the masses out of the hands of sociopaths.

Bringing the steel manning concept into the public domain as functional social, political, and educational programs is the tricky part. Doable though with film, gaming, and reality TV genres kicking it off. And if it did come to fruition because the masses demanded it… hell yeah, let the battle royale begin.

I’ve veered off into the bigger picture because we’re always gonna be shovelling sh!t without a paddle if we don’t experiment with countermeasures to disable sociopaths reaping rewards for their deceptions. They might be fewer than the rest of us, but boy have they mastered how to conquer one and all.

We know these personalities are real and we know their strategies. So why the bloody hell are we not collectively doing something about this? Why aren’t we being informed, before the age of 20, that there are people in the world, ruthless beyond imagination, that control everything? Why are we forced to scratch our heads for years wondering why random friends, family, and work colleagues repeatedly abuse the crap out of everyone else without remorse… and get away with it? Why are we left confused, forced to abandon logic and reason when challenging rationales for why our world must fester with pus because humanity has no collective will to stop tyrants?

When our psychology departments know damn well what the problem is, why do they collectively sit on their hands instead of leading revolutionary movements of awareness, confidence, courage, strategy… strategy to… Yeah, I know, I should stop there, give myself a little slap, and answer my torment.

Without fail… sophisticated, civilized, sociopaths are always playing the long game, calculating one step ahead. Is it any wonder Social Emotional Learning (SEL) strategically and successfully infiltrated education and government institutions, homes, and workplace environments? For those unfamiliar with the terminology, SEL is woke nonsense that has inevitably morphed into insanity; when you skip past the glossy cover and read the fine print.

Sociopath Control Handbook 101, Rule Number One: Always lure, corrupt, and empower younger generations to be the next army to challenge and conquer the noble and the enlightened. Meritocracy be damned.

But yes… turning the other cheek, unplugging, taking breaks, etc are all useful strategies for self-preservation.

[Denise/Dizi]

This is my personal opinion of online burnout.

I believe the sheer volume of information available and being exchanged on the internet is overwhelming to those who are using it as their method of engaging others...

I think what we fail to realize when approaching the internet, is that we all come from varied backgrounds, economic situations, cultural beliefs and habits, and lifestyles. Some have mental conditions that do not allow for them to have "flexible reasoning" as well, and they appear to be demanding in their exchanges.. and appear unwavering in any form...

But really they're just speaking their truth, no need to try to change that, and they're unapologetic about it. But you wouldn't know that from behind a screen, oceans apart.

You will see and experience every condition the human species wrestles with online... Yet there are no labels suggesting this is what you are dealing with, so that you can have compassion or not get angry/frustrated...

When it comes to vampirism in this type of situation, one need only remind themselves, that if something doesn't feel comfortable, they can merely walk away and find other things that do bring them joy or happiness... and stop allowing their energy to be attached to those things.. It is a personal choice and something everyone should remind themselves at times.

Free Will is always available in these situations, and having that ability to exercise free will, doesn't mean we always choose to use it for some reason... We can be kind and agree to disagree, and walk away if that isn't the intention of those someone is trying to engage.

It is our individual choice to determine what they wish to accomplish online, and be the driver of our own experience...

It reminds me of the saying, "the Lion that you feed, is the one that stays alive"

[HopSan]

Thanks all, as far as it concerns my points.
I am here to get a heart-felt response, regarding areas that I understand.
I'm not disappointed, thanks!

My most active points, at the moment... Non-AI, and themes around that:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?123210-AI-is-not-happening-at-all

I'll answer with my best ability.
I am not here to convince anyone -- but to show that I have reason to be convinced.

[HopSan]

Dear HopSan – enlighten me. What do you mean exactly by: “A real AI is not happening, but a sophisticated bluff is happening.”

Why would the bluff not be “scaring”? And how scaring would the real AI then be in that case?
?

As an expert of AI, you will be of course full of highly relevant thoughts. I guess I can understand that you would be able to talk about it endlessly.

Why would you not try and be concise about the most essential points justifying your assurance?

Michel,

The point of (my) points is: If (and when, and now that) there is not and cannot be, ever, 'computer-AI', by very good and strong theoretical points (and, more, not public), we should not be scared about the message of mass media.

[QueenRia]

Herzlich Willkommen auch von mir. :) Du bist schuld, dass ich mich hier mal wieder eingeloggt und jetzt so viel geschrieben habe. :P

Danke, und sehr cool dass du zurückgekommen bist und dir die Zeit genommen hast, zu antworten!! :D

Wow, what you are describing is so interesting. It makes me realize that it is indeed much easier for negative entities to come to the forefront in online discussions.

My online experience has been different though, I didn't become aware of the negativity until I started getting into "Redpill"-territory.
My earliest memories of online contacts are from ca. 2000/2001 when I chatted a bit on ICQ and participated on a "David Letterman" online forum, which was a lot of fun and the people were super nice and interesting. The only marginally negative experience was one pedo in some chatroom or ICQ, but I immediately sussed what he was so that was a super brief contact 😂

Since then I remember only positive experiences, and quite a few led to making friends and meeting nice people in real life. In 2007 I got deep into manifesting and the evolution of consciousness, was on a forum (Abraham Hicks forum), in Facebook groups, Meetup Groups... but I experienced nothing negative like you described. The icky energies were only in real life, not online. The closest I got to your area of interest was a Tarot Forum, but it was part of a closed, paid community, so probably not too many fake people there.



my experiences were a lot more positive in the first few years of my engagement with the internet. [...] back in the days when the net was innocent and much less controlled....Which is kind of paradoxical, is it not??

Yes indeed! The negative energies have ramped up considerably - I wasn't even aware of the censorship and control until 2021 when someone finally gave me the Red Pill.




I rode the internet wave early.

Haha, so did I! But in the late 90s I used it mostly for research and getting my hands on English language material, and downloading music of course :D



I delved into it having a positive image of witches [...] and also shamans, wizards etc - but that changed rather quickly.

Interesting! In the Tarot community many are into witchcraft, but I was never interested, I only ever sought the ONE, the Source - direct connection, no messing around with astral or lesser spirits. In the Tarot world I never met those with negative intent, only the good hearted ones. What I saw happening though was the woke-insanity creeping in. But it was always good-hearted people that suffered from that insanity.

I remember being on Twitter for a while and posting funny tweets, around 2018. And I noticed people bitching about how negative Twitter had become - and I couldn't relate because I just generated my own positivity there, so I never made contact with the negative energies.

It was only when I became conscious of the conspiracy-side of the world, and the dark forces and the deception that extends to the astral realm, that I started noticing negative energies online, but only in 'redpilled territory' groups and in that one forum. As if these were especially infiltrated so as to keep consciousness from expanding any further, and to keep the real conscious people apart from each other.




you just get to the point of not wanting to bother with anyone anymore. Even in the "real world". Because these infestations have grown very strong and pervasive IMO.

I've arrived at the same point of not wanting to bother, but not because of the infestations but more because of the "NPC-ness" of the people. Even former friends and acquaintances - they are now living in a completely different world than I am, and it seems to cost me so much energy to interact with them, even online! I'm still puzzled as to why no one was able to follow me into Redpill-World. There are still some that I haven't had contact with in a few years, and I want to contact them to check where they are at in their consciousness.




I kept pondering why this is all allowed to take place here on earth. Why is it such a "field" that the dark entities can have a field day with?? Who's granting them permission? [...] Why is it being allowed to go on and on and on?? With always news manifestations and intricacies (like with the online world)? I'm trully disillusioned by this.....

Wow, you are asking all the important questions!!
This topic would probably need its own thread, and I'm very interested in discussing this topic in general, it's one reason I came to this forum. I still need to do a little more searching here to find whether there's already dedicated threads to this.

I'll make my answer here as short as possible. 😄

So what I've found is: We live in an inverted reality. This place is not the "Real Thing". This place is a low-frequency copy of Prime Reality, specifically set up to be this way, to allow the negative energies to thrive by feeding off the suffering.
I have memories of "Prime Reality", heart-memories and also experiences of "Home"-states in dreams. And I'm not the only one, there are others who remember and are talking about this. The heart-memories and dreams I had are of a state that is not the Complete God-Oneness but a world were we are still individuals but everything feels much more REAL, like there is a deeper spiritual dimension to everthing and it's more real than the normal 3D-physical world!

But up until I got redpilled, I thought my memories are just a matter of frequency, that if I get on a high enough frequency here I'd have the depth of experience that I remember. And I thought the suffering and negativity in the world can be explained merely by ignorance. That's what is taught in the manifesting community and in the New Thought (not New Age!) writings I studied for years. Our consciousness creates physical reality and ignorance of that is the only reason the world is not as it should be.

But that's not it. I would say that everyone who still believes that has not become aware of the depths of depravity and suffering and negativity, and the deception and manipulation this world is steeped in.

Your disillusionment comes from your own heart-memories, you inherently know it shouldn't be this way, something is off.

When it all clicked into place for me was when I learned about the Gnostic idea of the "bad copy" of Prime Reality, or in more modern terms it's called "Simulacrum" or "Simulation" or "Matrix". But we have to distinguish between an "organic matrix" and the "false matrix" (Kerry K on Youtube uses these terms). If you look at the holographic universe theory, quantum physics and all that, you can still think it's all good, we are Spirit expressing ourselves in the physical, like a playground, a realm to explore and have adventures (this is what you often hear in the manifesting community, and what I believed for the longest time). A Dream that Consciousness is dreaming. Yes, that does sound fun, and I feel in my heart this is what we originally wanted, this is the reason for Prime Reality - a realm to express, explore, be individualized, create... But this place we are in is not it, it's like a copy that was distorted, and is being distorted more and more and more.
And the purpose of it is what some call a "loosh"-farm: negative consciousness feeding off of the "loosh"-energy that is produced by suffering.

I first heard about this concept in 2022 in David Icke's book The Trap, and he goes into more depth in his subsequent books "The Dream" and "The Reveal", and since then I've listened to different perspectives on this, like Kerry K, Isabella Greene, Lauda Leon, Lisa M Harrison, Howdie Mickoski... They all have their unique take on it, and some resonate more with me than others.

I have found these discoveries to be very empowering! I'm not disillusioned with all the darkness, because everything makes sense in that light. And I'm very optimistic because I believe we are taking down this false matrix from the inside and outside. Its days are numbered. That's where the "ascension" talk comes from, or the concept of the "New Earth". It's really not the New Earth, it's the REAL Earth.

The only thing I'm disillusioned by is all the people who have dropped out of my experience. And engaging with "NPCs" has become so pointless.

[Pam]

Herzlich Willkommen auch von mir. :) Du bist schuld, dass ich mich hier mal wieder eingeloggt und jetzt so viel geschrieben habe. :P

Danke, und sehr cool dass du zurückgekommen bist und dir die Zeit genommen hast, zu antworten!! :D

Wow, what you are describing is so interesting. It makes me realize that it is indeed much easier for negative entities to come to the forefront in online discussions.

My online experience has been different though, I didn't become aware of the negativity until I started getting into "Redpill"-territory.
My earliest memories of online contacts are from ca. 2000/2001 when I chatted a bit on ICQ and participated on a "David Letterman" online forum, which was a lot of fun and the people were super nice and interesting. The only marginally negative experience was one pedo in some chatroom or ICQ, but I immediately sussed what he was so that was a super brief contact 😂

Since then I remember only positive experiences, and quite a few led to making friends and meeting nice people in real life. In 2007 I got deep into manifesting and the evolution of consciousness, was on a forum (Abraham Hicks forum), in Facebook groups, Meetup Groups... but I experienced nothing negative like you described. The icky energies were only in real life, not online. The closest I got to your area of interest was a Tarot Forum, but it was part of a closed, paid community, so probably not too many fake people there.



my experiences were a lot more positive in the first few years of my engagement with the internet. [...] back in the days when the net was innocent and much less controlled....Which is kind of paradoxical, is it not??

Yes indeed! The negative energies have ramped up considerably - I wasn't even aware of the censorship and control until 2021 when someone finally gave me the Red Pill.




I rode the internet wave early.

Haha, so did I! But in the late 90s I used it mostly for research and getting my hands on English language material, and downloading music of course :D



I delved into it having a positive image of witches [...] and also shamans, wizards etc - but that changed rather quickly.

Interesting! In the Tarot community many are into witchcraft, but I was never interested, I only ever sought the ONE, the Source - direct connection, no messing around with astral or lesser spirits. In the Tarot world I never met those with negative intent, only the good hearted ones. What I saw happening though was the woke-insanity creeping in. But it was always good-hearted people that suffered from that insanity.

I remember being on Twitter for a while and posting funny tweets, around 2018. And I noticed people bitching about how negative Twitter had become - and I couldn't relate because I just generated my own positivity there, so I never made contact with the negative energies.

It was only when I became conscious of the conspiracy-side of the world, and the dark forces and the deception that extends to the astral realm, that I started noticing negative energies online, but only in 'redpilled territory' groups and in that one forum. As if these were especially infiltrated so as to keep consciousness from expanding any further, and to keep the real conscious people apart from each other.




you just get to the point of not wanting to bother with anyone anymore. Even in the "real world". Because these infestations have grown very strong and pervasive IMO.

I've arrived at the same point of not wanting to bother, but not because of the infestations but more because of the "NPC-ness" of the people. Even former friends and acquaintances - they are now living in a completely different world than I am, and it seems to cost me so much energy to interact with them, even online! I'm still puzzled as to why no one was able to follow me into Redpill-World. There are still some that I haven't had contact with in a few years, and I want to contact them to check where they are at in their consciousness.




I kept pondering why this is all allowed to take place here on earth. Why is it such a "field" that the dark entities can have a field day with?? Who's granting them permission? [...] Why is it being allowed to go on and on and on?? With always news manifestations and intricacies (like with the online world)? I'm trully disillusioned by this.....

Wow, you are asking all the important questions!!
This topic would probably need its own thread, and I'm very interested in discussing this topic in general, it's one reason I came to this forum. I still need to do a little more searching here to find whether there's already dedicated threads to this.

I'll make my answer here as short as possible. 😄

So what I've found is: We live in an inverted reality. This place is not the "Real Thing". This place is a low-frequency copy of Prime Reality, specifically set up to be this way, to allow the negative energies to thrive by feeding off the suffering.
I have memories of "Prime Reality", heart-memories and also experiences of "Home"-states in dreams. And I'm not the only one, there are others who remember and are talking about this. The heart-memories and dreams I had are of a state that is not the Complete God-Oneness but a world were we are still individuals but everything feels much more REAL, like there is a deeper spiritual dimension to everthing and it's more real than the normal 3D-physical world!

But up until I got redpilled, I thought my memories are just a matter of frequency, that if I get on a high enough frequency here I'd have the depth of experience that I remember. And I thought the suffering and negativity in the world can be explained merely by ignorance. That's what is taught in the manifesting community and in the New Thought (not New Age!) writings I studied for years. Our consciousness creates physical reality and ignorance of that is the only reason the world is not as it should be.

But that's not it. I would say that everyone who still believes that has not become aware of the depths of depravity and suffering and negativity, and the deception and manipulation this world is steeped in.

Your disillusionment comes from your own heart-memories, you inherently know it shouldn't be this way, something is off.

When it all clicked into place for me was when I learned about the Gnostic idea of the "bad copy" of Prime Reality, or in more modern terms it's called "Simulacrum" or "Simulation" or "Matrix". But we have to distinguish between an "organic matrix" and the "false matrix" (Kerry K on Youtube uses these terms). If you look at the holographic universe theory, quantum physics and all that, you can still think it's all good, we are Spirit expressing ourselves in the physical, like a playground, a realm to explore and have adventures (this is what you often hear in the manifesting community, and what I believed for the longest time). A Dream that Consciousness is dreaming. Yes, that does sound fun, and I feel in my heart this is what we originally wanted, this is the reason for Prime Reality - a realm to express, explore, be individualized, create... But this place we are in is not it, it's like a copy that was distorted, and is being distorted more and more and more.
And the purpose of it is what some call a "loosh"-farm: negative consciousness feeding off of the "loosh"-energy that is produced by suffering.

I first heard about this concept in 2022 in David Icke's book The Trap, and he goes into more depth in his subsequent books "The Dream" and "The Reveal", and since then I've listened to different perspectives on this, like Kerry K, Isabella Greene, Lauda Leon, Lisa M Harrison, Howdie Mickoski... They all have their unique take on it, and some resonate more with me than others.

I have found these discoveries to be very empowering! I'm not disillusioned with all the darkness, because everything makes sense in that light. And I'm very optimistic because I believe we are taking down this false matrix from the inside and outside. Its days are numbered. That's where the "ascension" talk comes from, or the concept of the "New Earth". It's really not the New Earth, it's the REAL Earth.

The only thing I'm disillusioned by is all the people who have dropped out of my experience. And engaging with "NPCs" has become so pointless.

I found your post very exciting. I have been talking about the inversion of this realm for years. I even began calling it the predator/prey model. I even understood it as a child and I desperately wanted out. I came across the works of Robert Monroe who was the first person that I know of that began traveling this construct in OBE's and organized it into a study in the 1970's in and he actually coined the phrase "loosh". He is also responsible for binaural beats and the Monroe Institute.

I believed in the concept of loosh but not until I heard this excerpt from one of his books where he describes in detailed evolution, and I believe this is the true evolution did I see the cunning and brilliance of what they have done. I highly recommend listening to this. Basically the way I see it is that the "archons" or whoever they are are basically junkies. They are perpetually refining the quality of the loosh to give them a better high. Thus the devolution, rather than the progression one would think mankind would make.

On another note, I now believe the resets, the yugas, the ages ect. are done because they need to create stronger loosh. As is the case for every junkie, more and more is needed. That is why we are periodically devolving and this is the mother event coming down the pike. I am very excited to hear whatever you have to say.

Most people like to look at the external events happening here and now, I like to know, at least the best I can theorize the why of what is happening. The source of the issue . The senseless wars, the increasing atrocities, the self destruction, all of it to refine loosh.

My goal is to walk or crawl out of here in a state of unconditional love. I know just printing this will create a bit of ire in the realms we don't have easy access to. That is what Christ consciousness is ultimately about. Walk through this, know what it is and walk out with unconditional love. That doesn't mean being a whimp, in fact it is quite the opposite, it takes much courage. Have I succeeded , no, but that is my goal and I'll die with that as my ultimate goal.

ndoI8kD7CXM

[QueenRia]

I found your post very exciting.

Likewise! I'm happy someone here is also contemplating the nature of this matrix. I need to check out more of your posts when I have time! 😀



I even understood it as a child and I desperately wanted out.

That's very cool! Have you written about this elsewhere on this forum? If you feel like sharing more, I would love to know what exactly you remember, like did you remember a sort of Prime Reality and what it is like, or do you only recall sensing this here was all wrong?

(Not sure if we should move to another thread, we seem to be hijacking this one, haha.)



I believed in the concept of loosh but not until I heard this excerpt from one of his books where he describes in detailed evolution, and I believe this is the true evolution did I see the cunning and brilliance of what they have done. I highly recommend listening to this.

I just watched the video, thank you! I haven't read anything by Robert Monroe yet, but seen him mentioned many times, like in David Icke's books which have been my jumping off point for deeper research into this subject.

Very interesting, this concept of "evolution"!
Some of it rings very true, other elements contradict my inner knowing somewhat, for example:
The creator of this loosh-experiment comes across as actually being creative and inventing things and concepts - I don't believe this is possible for an archon-mind. I believe what they do is copy what is already created (by consciousness that is still connected to Source/Love-Power), then corrupt, distort, invert.

The COPY-CORRUPT/DISTORT/INVERT would also explain the elements of beauty we still see reflected in nature.
Also I feel the concept of male-female was originally meant as a dynamic, beautiful dance of polarities. I have strong memories about this in my spirit/heart, that's why I'm sure this is part of Prime Earth Reality.
What distorts it is the consciousness of total separation that we have here in this matrix.

One concept in the video that I completely agree with is that lifeforms-having-to-eat-each-other-for-sustenance has been introduced for loosh production. There is lots of ugliness and suffering happening in "nature", and if you see it as a distortion of original Prime Reality, to keep the loosh flow going, it suddenly makes sense.



I now believe the resets, the yugas, the ages ect. are done because they need to create stronger loosh.

Ah yes, I haven't thought about it this way before.
So far, I only looked at it from the angle that they cannot have us waking up to Who we really are, so they have to keep us down and in survival mode, always resetting and dumbing us down again, trying to suppress the Christ consciousness that keeps wanting to rise.



The senseless wars, the increasing atrocities, the self destruction, all of it to refine loosh.

Exactly!
On the 3D level it serves the purpose to advance their agenda, and on the 4D level it's to harvest loosh.



I know just printing this will create a bit of ire in the realms we don't have easy access to.
Indeed, I think these kind of conversations are some of the most dangerous to them. That's why I was theorizing earlier on this thread that they would try their best to supress or infiltrate these kind of conversations, to keep people from thinking too far and sussing their game.



My goal is to walk or crawl out of here in a state of unconditional love.
[...] That is what Christ consciousness is ultimately about. Walk through this, know what it is and walk out with unconditional love. That doesn't mean being a whimp, in fact it is quite the opposite

Beautiful! I 100% agree with you!

[shaberon]

On one hand, I agree civilized discourse is what we should strive for. I just don’t believe it’s an optimal practice in the realities we endure. Sure, it has ushered in significant change, but it's always within a confined system that ultimately preserves power in the hands of a few to gift or deny life, liberty, and comfort to the masses at will. Even our democracies are ridiculously arranged to support this dilemma, not fix it – meritocracy is an illusion, for starters.

Most people never consider there’s something dreadfully wrong with the shape of the bowl we’re swimming around in, so they can’t even begin to imagine that there might be alternative shapes to sculpt besides the worn-out trio constantly on offer: Dictatorships; Monarchies; Pseudo-Democracies aka hybrids with cloaked emperors championing communism every which way to Sunday.

And how can it be any other way when sophisticated bullies and sociopaths – grand masters at exploiting agreeableness – lean back comfortably at the tables of civilized discourse without fear of a worthy challenge with attitude? And therein lies the paradox.



I think I see where you are coming from. The distastefulness of herd mentality. Again, I'm trying to point to Civilization, which we do not currently have a model of.

Now, I have noticed a slightly different subject, which I can't contend with here. There is the view that ancient monuments show us a "perfect civilization" that has been lost; and I am not sure that is what those are about.

I would say that ancient inhabited cities indicate something different than the confusion presented today.

First of all, who built that stuff? Masons.

How did that work? International beer and meat party.

"Social engineering" is built on top of that, as an attachment. To our detriment, one of the main problems in this regard is:


Writing


which seems to have given a huge bonus to those who would like to steer the course of mental development, to their own ends.

I don't think we get very far beyond a hunter-gatherer stage without "leadership"--but what this means in a natural world where people talk and work together, is of a different stripe than written words about abstract ideas that mostly affect other places.

One of the things I have tried to do is post recent examples of peace and prosperity--these have been ignored by the community. Perhaps because it ends in the nineteenth century. About all I can do since then, is show you how it screws up, usually by taking imaginative fiction and transferring it to the realm of axioms. This is what will happen if we read too much into the Bosnian Pyramid and such things that provide little evidence of anything on their own. It's extremely speculative. But for example, with the Egyptian pyramids, we have all the receipts and can tell it was built by people who were well-paid. Then it may be of interest how Egypt developed any prosperity. They certainly don't have it now.

On the other hand, I wish, that as a young person, I had been given the message you referred to--life is hard, although nature is already a challenge, other humans specialize in making it far worse. Instead, I was taught to trust and rely on "the system" and it would automatically give me a good life. I can see it is working for "a few".


I am low on time so I will have to get back to this.

[Pam]

Herzlich Willkommen auch von mir. :) Du bist schuld, dass ich mich hier mal wieder eingeloggt und jetzt so viel geschrieben habe. :P

Danke, und sehr cool dass du zurückgekommen bist und dir die Zeit genommen hast, zu antworten!! :D

Wow, what you are describing is so interesting. It makes me realize that it is indeed much easier for negative entities to come to the forefront in online discussions.

My online experience has been different though, I didn't become aware of the negativity until I started getting into "Redpill"-territory.
My earliest memories of online contacts are from ca. 2000/2001 when I chatted a bit on ICQ and participated on a "David Letterman" online forum, which was a lot of fun and the people were super nice and interesting. The only marginally negative experience was one pedo in some chatroom or ICQ, but I immediately sussed what he was so that was a super brief contact 😂

Since then I remember only positive experiences, and quite a few led to making friends and meeting nice people in real life. In 2007 I got deep into manifesting and the evolution of consciousness, was on a forum (Abraham Hicks forum), in Facebook groups, Meetup Groups... but I experienced nothing negative like you described. The icky energies were only in real life, not online. The closest I got to your area of interest was a Tarot Forum, but it was part of a closed, paid community, so probably not too many fake people there.



my experiences were a lot more positive in the first few years of my engagement with the internet. [...] back in the days when the net was innocent and much less controlled....Which is kind of paradoxical, is it not??

Yes indeed! The negative energies have ramped up considerably - I wasn't even aware of the censorship and control until 2021 when someone finally gave me the Red Pill.




I rode the internet wave early.

Haha, so did I! But in the late 90s I used it mostly for research and getting my hands on English language material, and downloading music of course :D



I delved into it having a positive image of witches [...] and also shamans, wizards etc - but that changed rather quickly.

Interesting! In the Tarot community many are into witchcraft, but I was never interested, I only ever sought the ONE, the Source - direct connection, no messing around with astral or lesser spirits. In the Tarot world I never met those with negative intent, only the good hearted ones. What I saw happening though was the woke-insanity creeping in. But it was always good-hearted people that suffered from that insanity.

I remember being on Twitter for a while and posting funny tweets, around 2018. And I noticed people bitching about how negative Twitter had become - and I couldn't relate because I just generated my own positivity there, so I never made contact with the negative energies.

It was only when I became conscious of the conspiracy-side of the world, and the dark forces and the deception that extends to the astral realm, that I started noticing negative energies online, but only in 'redpilled territory' groups and in that one forum. As if these were especially infiltrated so as to keep consciousness from expanding any further, and to keep the real conscious people apart from each other.




you just get to the point of not wanting to bother with anyone anymore. Even in the "real world". Because these infestations have grown very strong and pervasive IMO.

I've arrived at the same point of not wanting to bother, but not because of the infestations but more because of the "NPC-ness" of the people. Even former friends and acquaintances - they are now living in a completely different world than I am, and it seems to cost me so much energy to interact with them, even online! I'm still puzzled as to why no one was able to follow me into Redpill-World. There are still some that I haven't had contact with in a few years, and I want to contact them to check where they are at in their consciousness.




I kept pondering why this is all allowed to take place here on earth. Why is it such a "field" that the dark entities can have a field day with?? Who's granting them permission? [...] Why is it being allowed to go on and on and on?? With always news manifestations and intricacies (like with the online world)? I'm trully disillusioned by this.....

Wow, you are asking all the important questions!!
This topic would probably need its own thread, and I'm very interested in discussing this topic in general, it's one reason I came to this forum. I still need to do a little more searching here to find whether there's already dedicated threads to this.

I'll make my answer here as short as possible. 😄

So what I've found is: We live in an inverted reality. This place is not the "Real Thing". This place is a low-frequency copy of Prime Reality, specifically set up to be this way, to allow the negative energies to thrive by feeding off the suffering.
I have memories of "Prime Reality", heart-memories and also experiences of "Home"-states in dreams. And I'm not the only one, there are others who remember and are talking about this. The heart-memories and dreams I had are of a state that is not the Complete God-Oneness but a world were we are still individuals but everything feels much more REAL, like there is a deeper spiritual dimension to everthing and it's more real than the normal 3D-physical world!

But up until I got redpilled, I thought my memories are just a matter of frequency, that if I get on a high enough frequency here I'd have the depth of experience that I remember. And I thought the suffering and negativity in the world can be explained merely by ignorance. That's what is taught in the manifesting community and in the New Thought (not New Age!) writings I studied for years. Our consciousness creates physical reality and ignorance of that is the only reason the world is not as it should be.

But that's not it. I would say that everyone who still believes that has not become aware of the depths of depravity and suffering and negativity, and the deception and manipulation this world is steeped in.

Your disillusionment comes from your own heart-memories, you inherently know it shouldn't be this way, something is off.

When it all clicked into place for me was when I learned about the Gnostic idea of the "bad copy" of Prime Reality, or in more modern terms it's called "Simulacrum" or "Simulation" or "Matrix". But we have to distinguish between an "organic matrix" and the "false matrix" (Kerry K on Youtube uses these terms). If you look at the holographic universe theory, quantum physics and all that, you can still think it's all good, we are Spirit expressing ourselves in the physical, like a playground, a realm to explore and have adventures (this is what you often hear in the manifesting community, and what I believed for the longest time). A Dream that Consciousness is dreaming. Yes, that does sound fun, and I feel in my heart this is what we originally wanted, this is the reason for Prime Reality - a realm to express, explore, be individualized, create... But this place we are in is not it, it's like a copy that was distorted, and is being distorted more and more and more.
And the purpose of it is what some call a "loosh"-farm: negative consciousness feeding off of the "loosh"-energy that is produced by suffering.

I first heard about this concept in 2022 in David Icke's book The Trap, and he goes into more depth in his subsequent books "The Dream" and "The Reveal", and since then I've listened to different perspectives on this, like Kerry K, Isabella Greene, Lauda Leon, Lisa M Harrison, Howdie Mickoski... They all have their unique take on it, and some resonate more with me than others.

I have found these discoveries to be very empowering! I'm not disillusioned with all the darkness, because everything makes sense in that light. And I'm very optimistic because I believe we are taking down this false matrix from the inside and outside. Its days are numbered. That's where the "ascension" talk comes from, or the concept of the "New Earth". It's really not the New Earth, it's the REAL Earth.

The only thing I'm disillusioned by is all the people who have dropped out of my experience. And engaging with "NPCs" has become so pointless.

I found your post very exciting. I have been talking about the inversion of this realm for years. I even began calling it the predator/prey model. I even understood it as a child and I desperately wanted out. I came across the works of Robert Monroe who was the first person that I know of that began traveling this construct in OBE's and organized it into a study in the 1970's in and he actually coined the phrase "loosh". He is also responsible for binaural beats and the Monroe Institute.

I believed in the concept of loosh but not until I heard this excerpt from one of his books where he describes in detailed evolution, and I believe this is the true evolution did I see the cunning and brilliance of what they have done. I highly recommend listening to this. Basically the way I see it is that the "archons" or whoever they are are basically junkies. They are perpetually refining the quality of the loosh to give them a better high. Thus the devolution, rather than the progression one would think mankind would make.

On another note, I now believe the resets, the yugas, the ages ect. are done because they need to create stronger loosh. As is the case for every junkie, more and more is needed. That is why we are periodically devolving and this is the mother event coming down the pike. I am very excited to hear whatever you have to say.

Most people like to look at the external events happening here and now, I like to know, at least the best I can theorize the why of what is happening. The source of the issue . The senseless wars, the increasing atrocities, the self destruction, all of it to refine loosh.

My goal is to walk or crawl out of here in a state of unconditional love. I know just printing this will create a bit of ire in the realms we don't have easy access to. That is what Christ consciousness is ultimately about. Walk through this, know what it is and walk out with unconditional love. That doesn't mean being a whimp, in fact it is quite the opposite, it takes much courage. Have I succeeded , no, but that is my goal and I'll die with that as my ultimate goal.

ndoI8kD7CXM

Thank you for your wonderful response. When I was a little kid, we had a 3 mirrored medicine cabinet, you could open the 2 mirrored cabinets on each side. I was so small I could easily get on the counter and always tryed to manipulate the mirrors so I would create an infinity of my images and I knew if I could align them correctly I could go to the the place that is the opposite. There was absolutely no David Icke or any access to anything of this nature when I was a kid.

I distinctly remember the uninverted version of this reality, where we were able to receive energy without killing something else. It is far more real than this "place".

You are right, the Archons have no imagination and they detest beauty. Thus the "fires", the wars, the millions of excuses to destroy any evidence of beauty. I am only now researching the whole Tartarian as well as other cultures that have been mysteriously and systematically destroyed only to be replaced by millions of "McDonald, Starbucks and 7-11's". I see them replacing all the lovely remnants of oodles of wonderful diverse cultures with these tedious, corporate piles of junk, with no life giving ingredients in the "food" products they sell. They are like the Orks, they want a barren wasteland with nothing more than clusters of nanobots passing as humans, mindlessly producing the barren wasteland that is what they are.


They stole the original world and made this monstrosity. Yes, they can't kill all the beauty of the original, but they can not make their own.

Ultimately, I do want to emphasize, I believe all of this, the original earth, the bad copy, the whole thing is part of a giant construct. In the end, we can still clear ourselves to reach out of this place and connect with something, god, higher self, call it what you will. That is outside this whole game we are playing. So the whole thing is an immersive experience and in the end we will all be ok. But dang, this thing can really be immersive. I believe we are really honored to be playing at this level, this is some crazy stuff and we didn't get to be part of this by sitting on our arses.

I will end with, the days of this bad copy seem to be getting ready to either implode or we are due a major reset so they can start another round of this BS. The Jig is up on their shenanigans and their tired formula is becoming obvious to even some of the densest, although I am amazed at the number that still hold out hope for the big fix through the right govie or the right single decision. Don't get me wrong anything is possible but it won't happen through action on the physical level, the power is our connection to that which is beyond our little narrow band of awareness.

You are a delight my queen:dog:, and I enjoy your presence on the forum.

[Delight]

My imagination has always saved me. Now, more than ever I am onto how importsnt my imagination is NOW, saving me.

My mind is full of information. I particularly am an internet addict. But it pleases me and NOW my imagination is saving me from being caught by the myriads of 4th dimensional entities afoot.

Though I am no expert, I am certain there are underlying principles which we can use and apply to particular contexts. One principle I am using is that Consciousness trumps all other laws. Consciousness can operate beyond the underlying principles like correspondance or gender and how polarity is in all.

IF we take it to the extreme that WE have been endowed with the Consciousness of the All, WE with our awareness can operate with Creation. IMO we live in a 100% paradox in this realm. However, OUR free will is involved DEEPLY for our personal experience. Be cause we can choose which side of the paradox to become aware, we will invite that expression in our 4D materialized to 3D.

Online forums like this one makes me so happy to be able to post in. I love to read the reponses. IMO people long to understand and seek and also to bounce off others ideas.

MY idea right now is that I am literally ENCASED in Divine contact. There is only my I am and God. EVERYTHING around me is a spin. However, it is why we are here... to experience these trajectories and then learn to make OUR spin matter. I am so glad to say that I have an angle on just how I choose my reality to be.

With ease and grace the Apocalypse unfolds. The TRUTH is what we learn.. we will take it RAW, however that will be? In paradox, we can't handle the TRUTH and MUST struggle on and on with LIES. In MY spin, we all are graced with the Plasma energy of the deep real which infuses us. We LIGHT UP and this is not easy but YET it is like a breath of air and natural. It will be so different and when we can SEE what frequencies have hidden, shocking. We need our contact with our SPIRIT.

MY spirit rope is real. Within I am in a triune, Mother principle whom I feel, father principle and I feel that, and I. I exist and am a child of mother/father who in turn was birthed by the CREATOR beyond reckoning.

HOWEVER, that is just the mind needing to think. The real is that Supreme force is within us and all around us. All we need is to allow the beginning of where we can accept this as real. Archons/shmarcons means to me that now i am in contact, I am NOT in the astral. I may see it but I do not go there. I don't need anything form there. My mind is cleaning out the threads of acceptance for the LIES. New pathways approach FROM the spirit rope.

Just need to share because I am bursting with feeling about how we are in a whole unknown trajectory, YET we can still contact PA. I EXPECT IN MY REALITY THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE EXTREMES because reality is softening. The dream is shifting as WE change our focus from "out there" happening to us and go to IN HERE< INVOKING MY REALITY!

We want a place to share what we experience.

[Pam]

I had to come back to this thread. I know my buddy SoulValor won't mind a bit of diversion off the original topic. I had so hoped that Maggie (Delight) would throw her thoughts our way and I wasn't disappointed. I have learned so much over the years from the wisdom, curiosity and the research of so many wonderful members that have shared their interests and knowledge over the years.

My heart is filled with gratitude!!!!

Thank you to SoulValor, and every single member that has contributed, either through research, ideas or just contributing their energy to the collective. Just think of the beautiful, collective energy that has been contributed over the years. And of course, none of this would be made possible without Bill who continues to allow the magic to continue over the years.:sun::sunrise::heart::moon::coffee:

[Vicus]

I want now provoke a discussion... :p

Well, I really don't know what is all about the fuss...after 4 years in this forum don't need to explain nobody how "I work"...it is crystal clear...I m direct and concise,don't beat the bushes around...

That´s primary my personality,second my style and third English isn't my mother tongue...a big motive don't getting lost in the bushes...

But what really count is my "radar"to detect friend from foe...nuances in expression "styles",that's why "punch in your nose" styles are rare but refreshing for me,like from Mashika...because they are REAL...not a snake slide approach with too many "nice words"but poisoned...

It is too easy for me to identify The "meaning" differences...when I detect some no gained animosity about me or my post I dont waist my time forded...
About me I don't see any adequate respond,just waist of time...when is about my post I respond only with facts...and then will see...

I don't have problems to recognize something wrong in my post,welcome clarifications...otherwise hasta la vista baby! :wave:

[shaberon]

Archons have no imagination and they detest beauty. Thus the "fires", the wars, the millions of excuses to destroy any evidence of beauty. I am only now researching the whole Tartarian as well as other cultures that have been mysteriously and systematically destroyed only to be replaced by millions of "McDonald, Starbucks and 7-11's". I see them replacing all the lovely remnants of oodles of wonderful diverse cultures with these tedious, corporate piles of junk, with no life giving ingredients in the "food" products they sell.



I agree with this, in character, however I get the sense I may disagree with a lot of what is said about it.

I have not yet found a word for the kind of skepticism I will try to describe.

When I look back through everything, I become strongly biased at a point around 3,000 B. C. E., or the Age of Taurus, because we can find written evidence taking us back that far. In fact, rather a lot of it. Then it is relatively easy to determine there was a "world system", which broke, around the time of the murder of Hypatia.


My issues are -- if someone says they know what people said or did in some epoch beyond this time frame -- what is that coming from?

Then, because we can tell a great deal about what was happening, and, it turns out that the border-less constructive force was Masonry, how do you deal with that?

Thirdly, if we pick through it, and determine that Oligarchy is not a "thing in itself", but, rather, the slow bending of a nation's laws to its will, is that any consolation?


So, I have made a type of axiomatic statement, that Masonry is a constructive force, whereas Oligarchy is a disease that can be and has been cleansed. I don't understand how we could project these ideas onto pre-urbanized humans. I do understand why we would say it determines the role of governments and religious or spiritual organizations to work in a certain way, that is, to protect all the subjects. If these agencies are not pre-occupied with well-being, then, they are not real, or have become defective. That would be the definition. It does not affect how things actually work unless applied.

That is why I have difficulty communicating with or understanding a lot of posts, because the meaningful history does not go back that far, but something tangible and recent as the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Westphalia"]Peace of Westphalia 1648/URL] does not seem to gain much attention. However it is highly conditional to us all at this very moment. That is, in getting rid of it and covering it up. I would argue that almost every treaty since then has knowingly carried a seed of disaster in its creation.

As soon as we start talking about, anything, we may be having an axiomatically different discussion, despite sharing similar values.

[QueenRia]

When I was a little kid, we had a 3 mirrored medicine cabinet, you could open the 2 mirrored cabinets on each side. I was so small I could easily get on the counter and always tryed to manipulate the mirrors so I would create an infinity of my images and I knew if I could align them correctly I could go to the the place that is the opposite. [...]
I distinctly remember the uninverted version of this reality, where we were able to receive energy without killing something else. It is far more real than this "place".

WOW!!! Thank you for sharing! I find this so fascinating.



Ultimately, I do want to emphasize, I believe all of this, the original earth, the bad copy, the whole thing is part of a giant construct. In the end, we can still clear ourselves to reach out of this place and connect with something, god, higher self, call it what you will. That is outside this whole game we are playing.

Yes, absolutely! I have heard the term "base reality", or "the void", or "the ground of being" - God. Some people, like Isabella Greene or David Icke, feel strongly that they want to return directly there and not play in form anymore, at least not for a while. I don't belong to that category because I have these strong memories of Prime Reality, and feel that I want to play and experience life there. In Prime Reality the connection to 'God' is conscious and strong, that's why the "Alive-ness" is so high. It's not obstructed and appearing 'cut-off' like here.

I think there are many "constructs", or "matrices", and normally every point in consciousness can freely choose whether to experience one, and which one.




You are a delight my queen:dog:, and I enjoy your presence on the forum.

Aw, thank you Pam, right back at you! 🥰


_____________________


Something cool: I just found some confirmation for my theory that the 'matrix controllers' do not like these discussions and are actively trying to thwart them:




I know just printing this will create a bit of ire in the realms we don't have easy access to.
Indeed, I think these kind of conversations are some of the most dangerous to them. That's why I was theorizing earlier on this thread that they would try their best to supress or infiltrate these kind of conversations, to keep people from thinking too far and sussing their game.

Isabella Greene (author of "Leaving the Trap") says in an interview that she observed "Agent Smiths" coming after her as soon as her information began to reach a larger audience. The interviewer asks her about possible repercussions for spreading the information that we live in a false matrix, and that reincarnation is a trap. Isabella quote:

"...observing that really strange occurrences that are not typical would kind of start spinning out, exactly at the time when I see let's say the interview went to like over 100,000 views. And all of a sudden something starts like [makes spinning motions with her hands] showing up.
But the practices actually help to be an observer in these situations and to not get worked up, not get emotionally involved, and just be able to kind of, Oh okay, so I have trolls as agent Smiths let's just say. Because the information just spiked up the attention to it, just spiked up the amount of people talking and paying attention to that and questioning things, that I triggered, just reached a certain number, and all of a sudden there are like little attempts to cool that down."

Source:
Isabella Greene interview on Your Superior Self YT-channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGA-PYbbC3c), Feb 19, 2024
(at 25min)


I think this is where AI-bots come into play. It would be hard to justify censoring spiritual discussions (as opposed to health/conspiracy discussions) - the system still works mostly through people, and the lower level minions-people need to be told a 'valid' reason for censorship. The argument that someone is a domestic terrorist because they talk about the reincarnation-trap would not hold. So they (the higher level-controllers) have to use tools like AI to obstruct and confuse the discussion of these topics. At least this is my current theory.

[HopSan]

You are right, the Archons have no imagination and they detest beauty.

Thus the "fires", the wars, the millions of excuses to destroy any evidence of beauty. I am only now researching the whole Tartarian as well as other cultures that have been mysteriously and systematically destroyed only to be replaced by millions of "McDonald, Starbucks and 7-11's". I see them replacing all the lovely remnants of oodles of wonderful diverse cultures with these tedious, corporate piles of junk, with no life giving ingredients in the "food" products they sell. They are like the Orks, they want a barren wasteland with nothing more than clusters of nanobots passing as humans, mindlessly producing the barren wasteland that is what they are.



Thanks, brings to mind:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/cG30Zu7eHeLA/

These 'Contraries', hating deeper creation, are in my mind like Archons.

Avalon has discussed this at least in:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20948-The-Friendship-Case--Il-Caso-Amicizia--and-the-book-MASS-CONTACT

Also, often comes to mind:

Do these 'Contraries' search for 'AI' desperately?