Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

[helium]

https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/82096/duckduckgo-ceo-announces-googlestyle-censorship-scheme-of-content-deemed-russian.html

Am rather disgusted that DDG would do such a thing. So in response I thought I'd search DDG for derogetory phrases (during the past hour) and found quite a few sites offering lots of alternatives to DDG.

Then searched DDG for each alternative, Metager, Infinity Search, and many others. Guess what? DDG does not provide links to any of these alternatives. BUT, go to google (I refuse to capitalize their name) and the very first hit when searching for the same alternative sites gives me a direct link to each alternative.

DDG simply doesn't want you to find an alternative search engine.

Another one bites the dust.

Anyone have previous experience with a good alternative search engine?

[Ewan]

In the same boat as you, I had been using them as a default engine and avoiding gooble. Need to find a new one.

[ExomatrixTV]

I Warned You About DuckDuckGo Bro! Sellout Browser to Tackle "Disinformation":

bN1lmKJknKw


Use Brave, Startpage, Ecosia, or Yandex

[Gwin Ru]

In the same boat as you, I had been using them as a default engine and avoiding gooble. Need to find a new one.

...



Yandex (https://yandex.com/)

[Mari]

I've no experience with DDG, so can't comment here, but I ditched google years ago and switched to Startpage as my search engine. Its totally private, fuss free.

https://www.startpage.com/

[helium]

I changed the default search in my browser to Brave (https://search.brave.com/) but know nothing about them. Perhaps if DDG sees a flood of fleeing users they will respond positively. Am not holding my breath.

Have been experimenting with search phrases that I anticipate will be targeted such as 'Where's Fauci?' and other goofy items. Brave seems to provide more alternative website hits right up front than DDG, but DDG still does provide access to sites that have been defunded (looking at you StrangeSounds). Probably better that I experiment with phrases directly related to Russia. Also have played around with various VPN locations to see if there's a difference in hits by location. I think this is the only way to discover which search engine is best to use. Being behind a really tough firewall and using multiple hop VPN service makes me feel fairly safe, along with blocking/obfuscating as much browser metadata as possible that identifies the user. In the end, there is no such thing as true privacy or safety from five-eyes, not even TOR.

I only use search for generic stuff so I don't feel as if I'd suffer DDG's 'changes' if they are current changes. I still use groogle for highly technical stuff like electronic engineering. Most of the alternative news aggregators do a decent job of providing links to everything I need to know (https://www.censored.news/). PA forum is a great source as well.

Bottom line - our data is like our money. We can spend it where we wish and maybe create the change we want to see.

[helium]

I used Startpage as default until about a year and half back when it became obvious that the new investors were not my cup of tea. But if you want Bing(e) and groogle searches, hopefully without the tracking, then StartPage is great. However, I want to make it clear that I did not start this thread to pontificate. Everyone has different needs and desires. I'm hoping that we can have a good discussion about search engines. If DDG wants to block access to topics that are essential to freedom of thought, I think they deserve to be challenged.

We know that google and microsoft block content important to many of us.


I've no experience with DDG, so can't comment here, but I ditched google years ago and switched to Startpage as my search engine. Its totally private, fuss free.

https://www.startpage.com/

[norman]

The DDG change may be as simple as pulling out of a deal with a Russian search engine ( sanctions mania ) and doing a deal with google instead. Google's deal probably only provides what google provides it's own direct users.

DDG can put lipstick on that and say anything they want

Only guessing, of course.

[helium]

Hmm. Owned by Russia but based in Netherlands. They will provide all your data to five-eyes with no hesitation if you're outisde of Russia. Inside Russia Yandex works directly for the Russian government. Now, that's something I've read but haven't fully reseearched. Anyone what to back that info up with good evidence?

Fact is, Yandex in years past provided really good searches, especially in technical fields. I haven't used them for quite a long time. Not since that oyama guy took the reins.





In the same boat as you, I had been using them as a default engine and avoiding gooble. Need to find a new one.

...



Yandex (https://yandex.com/)

[Spiral]

The brave browser has it's own search engine that seems better than DDG, it also has a built in Tor browser...

There is a new browser called Vivaldi, it has a choice of search engines inc "ecosia" https://vivaldi.com/

[Le Chat]

I've been using Qwant for some time....

[helium]

Yes, the Brave browser is great. Except that if you want the best security using it you cannot use addons. There are a few addons I need, one of the most necessary is the dark mode addon so I don't have whitespace banging out my eyes. One alternative is to load both Brave and Firefox or Vivaldi and use Brave when you need the added security.

The addons in your browser identify you to some extent. The Brave browser gains it's security by being the same on every machine. If millions of users' browsers report the same meta-data then everyone is anonymous.

The Brave search engine works fine in Firefox as default. There are addons for Firefox that report spoofed meta-data. But I agree, the Brave browser is as foolproof as you can get for the average user.

Playing around with the Brave search engine today makes me think I'll keep using it. My idea was to cease using DDG mostly for the sake of sending a message to the owners.

Tor may become the default for savvy users everywhere given the idiocy that the world is buying into. But Tor is painfully slow for everyday use unless you are at serious risk.

Ecosia is a search engine I've not heard of yet. Will have to investigate . . .


The brave browser has it's own search engine that seems better than DDG, it also has a built in Tor browser...

There is a new browser called Vivaldi, it has a choice of search engines inc "ecosia" https://vivaldi.com/

[Vicus]

Well, now understand what's happen to me in the last 10 days...by searching...

When DDG sold out it is a big to me, because what I normally use , now is useless.

Like useless became TOR in BRAVE with DDG by default...

And the worse for me is that original TOR use DDG by default too... :raining:


Starpage is old news for me , I will try Vivaldi, and Yandex just because it is Russian...:p

[apokalypse]

pretty much we on same boat and seems Brave search is way to go...

[apokalypse]

Well, now understand what's happen to me in the last 10 days...by searching...

When DDG sold out it is a big to me, because what I normally use , now is useless.

Like useless became TOR in BRAVE with DDG by default...

And the worse for me is that original TOR use DDG by default too... :raining:


Starpage is old news for me , I will try Vivaldi, and Yandex just because it is Russian...:p

i heard about yandex today and worth a try...i added Brave Search and test out Yandex(russian search engine)...

just try russia ukraine justification and "massive vaccine deaths" yandex gave interesting link...using yandex right now. you guys might also tested it out with "controversial topics" for mainstream...

Tried to use brave search but only have 1 pages of result.

[Mike Gorman]

This is a genuine disappointment, we have been supporting this project for years now, I have directed people to use DDG myself, to offset the appalling dominance of Google. DDG is also voicing an intention to 'control misinformation' which we all know is code for : Censoring opinion and information which does not match the mainstream narratives. How really dreadfully disappointing: this produces a huge opportunity for other data scientists and entrepreneurs to build an alternative, this is going to be made difficult, but it is possible!
I have switched to the BRAVE browser, and I am also looking for options to search, Yandex I know of, but there are others out there.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Interesting, never thought about using Brave but think I'll give it a try. Been using Firefox for at least 10 years since making the switch from IE. Firefox's biggest drawback for me is bloat. Here, with just a handful of tabs open and running it relatively bare bones, its gobbling near 2Gb of memory. Definitely will give it a try and see how it goes.

48601

[Vicus]

new experiences...


A) Opera in normal modus (without VPN) can change from DDG to Starpage

B) Opera with VPN can´t change DDG for Starpage...

C) Brave don't like to change to Starpage...

D) I just find Rense.com is out, no new license bla bla... :silent:

[gord]

Interesting, never thought about using Brave but think I'll give it a try. Been using Firefox for at least 10 years since making the switch from IE. Firefox's biggest drawback for me is bloat. Here, with just a handful of tabs open and running it relatively bare bones, its gobbling near 2Gb of memory. Definitely will give it a try and see how it goes.

48601

I've been using Brave for a few years, and I still use Firefox, Chrome and LibreWolf for some things. Firefox users might like to check out LibreWolf (https://librewolf.net/), "A fork of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom."

To stay on topic, here's a list of alternative search engines and some information about them: Alternative Search Engines That Respect Your Privacy (https://12bytes.org/articles/tech/alternative-search-engines-that-respect-your-privacy/). Personally, I like the Random searX Redirector (https://searx.neocities.org/).

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Well I downloaded Brave and had a look at it. Don't like it. It doesn't have a menu bar, you know, the Classic Menu Bar in the top left i.e. File | Edit | View | Tools etc...

I found out Brave used to have one, then phased it out. Why the hell would they do that? Do they want to shed their user base? That's a braindead move, and I found many Brave users on various forums that agree. I'm an old school PC guy that needs that feature. I need it on every program, and yes, I said program, not 'App'! - screw you computer newspeak. A classic menu bar is for me non-negotiable. Just have it as an option you can toggle on and off, same as Firefox! I did find an add-on from the Chrome store (Brave is basically built on the Chrome framework - lovely), and it's crap. So back to square one.

The reason Classic Menu Bars are classic is because they're the best ergonomic design. This is known. This is tried and tested. The best cars are the ones with wheels. Don't try and reinvent the wheel you moronic developers!

/rantoff

Edit: found this meme on my travels, re the OP

48602

[helium]

Nodding in your direction Mark.

My thoughts as well after playing with the Brave browser some time ago. The only reason to use it is to temporarily circumvent tracking before you close it and hardly ever use it again. There are ways to get around tracking, just not really simple ones. The anonymity that the Brave browser provides rests merely on the fact that everyone's browser appears to be the same. Makes me harken back to that (in)famous '1984' Macintosh ad.

Ditto on the menu bar issue.

The Brave search engine seems to be OK. Firefox doesn't seem to have it listed among their suggested search engines even if one hits the 'find more search engines' button. Obviously they don't want to encourage the competition. Firefox is soon to be booed out of the arena as well for questionable business associations and practices.

Still chuckling at that graphic. Makes me wonder how we've come to be where we are today, from the place we were in the beginning of this entire internet fiasco. It had to happen I suppose.

These connections we share at this moment are actually our human potential peeking out at us. I mean that were we where we very well could be, something akin to telepathy would be shared. The internet provides but a vaporous shadow image of who we would be with such advanced capabilities. Among us I think there are quite a few who know precisely what I'm talking about. To get there, though, perhaps the dark side needs airing out. That's as positive a spin I can put on anything during these times.

What I see in the world, in general, is a raging case of infantilism. Menu bars - bring 'em back!

[mojo]

Thanks for the advice of members here and I chose to try the Brave browser. Although Im having a problem with not having the search page open when I click on the Brave desktop icon. Does anyone know how to keep the search page open from the Brave homepage?

[Vicus]

new experiences...(2)


Original TOR browser search settings find Starpage...but after select it, DDG don't go away...

Only in the over search bar appears... then you can tip... and I found Rense.com again...(?) :confused:

I still go to experimenter some other possible browser/ search engine ,stay tune...;)

[Gwin Ru]

[...]

The Brave search engine seems to be OK. Firefox doesn't seem to have it listed among their suggested search engines even if one hits the 'find more search engines' button. Obviously they don't want to encourage the competition. [...]... when in the add-ons setting of Firefox, if one enters "brave search engine", it will show up as an add-on... I found.

[Andre]

I loved Firefox as a browser until about two years ago when they announced an agenda to control disinformation (free thought). Switched to Brave because I really needed synchronised bookmarks across my computers and phone. I think I changed browsers and my search engine from another thread here on Project Avalon. But DDG will have to go now.

[helium]

Thanks for the advice of members here and I chose to try the Brave browser. Although Im having a problem with not having the search page open when I click on the Brave desktop icon. Does anyone know how to keep the search page open from the Brave homepage?

I don't have the Brave browser loaded right now, but if memory serves me Brave is just a locked down, stripped down version of Mozilla's Firefox. So the menu settings should be much the same. If the pull down menu does not show at the top of the Brave window (hello Mark!!) then right click on the top margin and select 'menu bar,' then 'tools' and then 'settings.' You can set your home page, default search engine, and other stuff.

The things you do not want to do with Brave that will defeat tracking while browsing the web is to change whatever addons may be loaded. Certain changes made in Brave will make your copy stand out among all the other Brave browsers that are identical because Mozilla wanted Brave to be anonymous.

I'm not certain if changing the home page might identify you. Brave was not intended to be cutomized to any great degree, especially if it's used on the Tor network.

Just saw the comment about using an addon to install the Brave search engine. Yes, that's how I had to do it in Firefox. The actual Brave browser will have the Brave search engine as default.

Again, I have to say that changing addons in the actual Brave browser will defeat anonymity. Plus, I was not comfortable using an addon that had so few users and was not supported by Firefox. Although I'm pretty sure that the persons behind that addon are maybe trustworthy. (Some statement, huh?)

There are probably others who might be of more help than I.

[apokalypse]

yandax is my search engine now for info...tried 2 days so far and feel like back in the day for non-mainstream. Looking for 2nd search engine right now.

[helium]

yandax is my search engine now for info...tried 2 days so far and feel like back in the day for non-mainstream. Looking for 2nd search engine right now.

Could it be possible that the Russian powers-that-be encourage Yandex to link to western alternative news sites that speak truth?

Maybe I'm dense in the head and everyone already knows this. I just haven't thought of it until apokalypse posted yesterday and today about Yandex searches. RT, Tass, and other state news agencies never impressed me. But if Russia wanted truth to prevail during this current situation they could do no better than allow alternative news sites all around the world to proliferate on Yandex.

Thank you for making me think.

[Richter]

Take a look at this, it's named Tails: https://tails.boum.org/

[ExomatrixTV]

Saturday Show ep. 3: ft. New York Times Hit Piece Analyzed!:

zxXdmGvywtg

[mountain_jim]

https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1501985147469639683?s=20&t=rGaDmcl6OAn4fvOU-krfxQ

1501985147469639683

[helium]

Am listening to the above links now.

But it came to me very clearly a moment ago that there are two issues involved (if not more) and they are censorship and tracking using meta-data.

It's difficult to circumvent tracking on the big-tech search sites. That's a web browser issue. Tracking is a major issue for every user who has a stake in living consciously within a world of relative harmony. Tracking without full consent is at it's core a deceitful practice.

Censorship is the primary issue facing DDG at the moment. Of course it's deceitful as well.

I just wanted to seperate these two issues since it sounds like some folks are a bit blurry as to the distinction.

Am reminded of Dylan's song 'Disease of Conceit.' Anyone who believes they are superior to others will use deceit without regard.

https://www.bobdylan.com/songs/disease-conceit/

[Sue (Ayt)]

A conversation I had today with a personal acquaintance of the DDG originator/founder:

"The web is buzzing about how Duck Duck Go has now become propaganda like google, and people are leaving that search engine fast. Im sure your friend must be a bit upset?"
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?blog=Market-Ticker-Nad

answer:
"Nah, who cares about a few thousand right wing nut jobs?
It’s bad for business anyways."
"And they’ve always piggybacked off of Bing search engine tech"

"Would think those are a big proportion of their users…"

answer:
"Used to be, but as they grew they’ve become more mainstream"

(I promptly went to my bookmarks and fully deleted DDG, never to venture there again!)
:facepalm:

[palehorse]

Yep! Time now to promote Brave search and Pre-Search.. but let me tell you, both are bad as well haha
Brave is disgusting, typical idiots offering peanuts (BAT) for people in order to use their ****. Pre-search not different. When you get enough $$$ they ask ALL your personal data and self and **** in order for you to cash out, and also they will keep around 50% of you Crypto (because they are a good thieves). Screw these 2 companies for profit, bunch of bastards arse holes.

Give a try to https://searx.ninja/ the code is open search and audited by community and the searching data from diverse sources and you can choose it in the settings.

USE EVERYTHING THAT IS FREE AND OPEN SOURCE AND GIVE A MIDDLE FINGER AND BOYCOTT ALL TECH COMPANIES FOR PROFIT. SCREW THEM ALL.

Just a warning: I would stay out of Discord as well, I received an email from them few days ago about policy changing, where they say they will not tolerate fake news, misinformation, fake profiles, etc and etc and etc.. whatever they mean by that, the thing is, they are mainstream bull****, anything too controversial in that network is being watched and will be removed just like FB, Twitter does..

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I really miss the days before google, before greed, censorship, and algorithms set up shop... I miss the days when the internet was a new green country, a land of freedom before the thought police moved in... I remember when the search engine of choice was AltaVista (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltaVista), and it was awesome.

Man, I miss the internet in the 90s..

48621

[helium]

I really miss the days before google, before greed, censorship, and algorithms set up shop... I miss the days when the internet was a new green country, a land of freedom before the thought police moved in... I remember when the search engine of choice was AltaVista (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltaVista), and it was awesome.

Man, I miss the internet in the 90s..

48621

That graphic brings back memories for sure. What I miss most are the days when personal computers were a far off dream. When the community I lived in had no law enforcement whatsoever except one highway patrol officer who lived in town to be close to his beat on the remote state highway. He had no official capacity in terms of local law enforcement. But when we might need assistance we could knock on his door.

And speaking of doors, none of our homes had locks on the doors. Additionally, there was no TV.

Things have changed, even in that remote village, and not for the betterment of anyone.

But back on topic, this article by Epoch Times quotes Katie McInnis of DDG:

“In light of Russia’s assault on democracy and Ukraine, we have paused our relationship with Yandex,” McInnis told the House Committee on Energy & Commerce. “The index was used to provide traditional links, meaning non-news links, in Russia and Turkey.”

Thus begging the question, what was the relationship that DDG had with Yandex? Surely DDG wouldn't limit their use of Yandex searches to non-English languages. It only seems reasonable that some links presented in a DDG search actually came from Yandex as a whole (including the English version) and not just from Bing or Google.

In my experience DDG was OK, just OK, for everyday searches such as dictionary, thesaurus, math/engineering/electronic calculators, or general info. But I do recall that many currently-deplatformed sites such as Alex Jones appeared on DDG as a matter of course when they were more or less absent from goo-bing.

The Epoch Times article seems to put the argument to rest that DDG simply decided to rely on Bing to the exclusion of others. They are actively censoring on their own.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/duckduckgo-updates-search-engine-will-penalize-sites-associated-with-disinformation_4331495.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=ZeroHedge

The anomaly that intrigues me is why google's youtube would not censor all of the extraordinarily revealing videos coming out of Canada, especially Ottawa. My only conclusion is that some entity or another in control planned on creating a shock to the freedom-loving communities around the world. Such shocks have come on an ongoing basis and are becoming increasingly threatening. The populace is becoming innured to them while venting frustration over news items like DDG which give them opportunity to express their frustrations over issues that are relatively innocuous. Outrage over Ottawa and it's socio/ecenomic/political fallout appear to be left in the dust, even in the alternative media.

All of this censorship and tracking we discuss here has been ongoing way before DDG. Most of us know that. However I find the overnight media switch from state-sponsored police barbarism in Ottawa to in-your-face nuclear war threats to be a major flaw in the controllers' strategy.

Too many are waking up too fast to control without risking social and infrastructure damage that I don't think the controllers really want to occur. I've seen this kind of stupidity before. But if it's not stupidity, but is in fact cold, calculated social engineering, then I'm forced to conclude (well, at least hypothesize) that nuclear events of some kind (possibly widespread EMP) are imminent.

I came as Indigo decades before anyone thought of conceiving the concept of Indigo children. There was what I'd like to think a benevolent coercion behind my ermegence here. I do recall that I resisted before I knew that I had an 'I.' What I miss most in my life experience is living among those who did not judge. Where I could speak and act differently without threats and without retribution since I was not the only odd character in town. Even then I couldn't speak too freely without triggering fear. I've always resonated to the phrase 'differently sentient' from the series Caprica.

Today there is little to zero tolerance for speaking as the Indigo Adult that I've become - not even here on the PA forum. Though I do feel a responsiblity to PA and it's members. I only use the Indigo terminology as a crutch. There are so many other terms with belief systems behind them that are literally crutches used to hobble from one hopefully deeper understanding to another. Crutches are obvious utensils to be discarded when no longer necessary.

Maturity can be measured by the number of rudimentary crutches one relies upon. I like to think of PA as a place where crutches are routinely dispensed with while learning to walk upright - if not run - with joy and freedom at heart. A new world is blooming. The goal posts of what we consider physical and/or material are moving further apart. The deceit we are discussing right now is intended to block discovery and outright social acceptance of expanding realities as the goal posts move.

This is the first and only thread that I've started since I joined the PA forum. At the time I thought that it would be a good idea to introduce the DDG subject here before it might explode everywhere else. This morning it seems I've discovered a deeper reason why I started the thread. It's not just about crackdowns on internet searches. It's about the deeper agendas that those crackdowns stem from. In comparison, I say, war propaganda appearing in our web browsers is the least of our concerns.

Tracking users via web browsers and search engines is taking something against others' will. Censorship is hiding that which leads not only to limits on freedom of thought, but it's hiding that which leads to growth into the realms that we are entitled to enter at will for our own enlightenment and the natural evolution of the human species.

I doubt there will be many other venues where these issues with DDG will be put into a deeper persective than here on Avalon.

[norman]

answer:
" Nah, who cares about a few thousand right wing nut jobs?
It’s bad for business anyways."




Who's up for starting a 'Famous Last Words' thread around here ?


I have a hunch there's going to be a lot of material for it shortly.

[mojo]

Yep! Time now to promote Brave search and Pre-Search.. but let me tell you, both are bad as well haha
Brave is disgusting, typical idiots offering peanuts (BAT) for people in order to use their ****.

Not sure about the comment, as I just downloaded the beta version and in just a few days over 8k ads & tracers were blocked. Also I like that it provides the transparency of stats for the user on the homepage. Haven't seen any other browsers do that. Hopefully soon there will be other browsers that will protect freedom of speech & from censorship & provide privacy. Probably just a hope & dream...

[palehorse]

Yep! Time now to promote Brave search and Pre-Search.. but let me tell you, both are bad as well haha
Brave is disgusting, typical idiots offering peanuts (BAT) for people in order to use their ****.

Not sure about the comment, as I just downloaded the beta version and in just a few days over 8k ads & tracers were blocked. Also I like that it provides the transparency of stats for the user on the homepage. Haven't seen any other browsers do that. Hopefully soon there will be other browsers that will protect freedom of speech & from censorship & provide privacy. Probably just a hope & dream...

Please take a look at this page, there is a lot of information about Brave Browser there.
https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/brave.html

Just summarizing what is in that page..


Spyware Level: High
Auto-updates
Brave has built-in telemetry
Brave Today (similar to firefox pocket)
SafeBrowsing (requests to brave server)
Brave Rewards (requests to brave server)
Miscellaneous requests worth noting (rewards.brave.com, api.rewards.brave.com, grant.rewards.brave.com, variations.brave.com, crlsets.brave.com, and many others)
Brave fetches the list of affiliates through laptop-updates.brave.com
request to static1.brave.com (this one before landed on google's server now it only returns >>> curl: (56) Recv failure: Connection reset by peer
<<<)


Brave is a SPYWARE tool, I did verify myself all the information before mentioned lie a year ago and I found out it to be true, I immediately stopped using it after that.
Today I use a very tweaked version of Firefox (for modern web), and I use IceCat, Pale Moon, and Tor Browser for the rest.


Here is a bunch of old articles that are archived now for obviously reason:

https://archive.ph/qntuk#selection-227.0-243.124 (good one, worth the time reading)
https://archive.ph/hB8j3 (PRISM)
http://web.archive.org/web/20180909162803/https://duck.co/help/privacy/atb (DDG old privacy term - not online anymore)
https://spyware.neocities.org/translations/duckduckgo_article.html (NSA safe search engine? not so safe)

All these information is available before August 2021, some goes back right after Snowden episode.

Interesting video here: https://sp.rmbl.ws/s8/2/u/d/M/t/udMtd.gaa.mp4

[Vicus]

new experiences...(3)


I just beginn a new love affair... with Yandex!

It found everything I use to search! included RT Germany, they continue transmission from Serbia...

so far Yandex is not "forbidden" I can access it with all kind of browser!

Anyway, all browsers know what you search for , that you are awake in all sens: social, politics, medicine, etc.( that you don't buy MSM bull sh!t ! )

And "maybe" some day THEY will come for us...but it will be too late for THEM!!

:ninja:


PS: when I try to go to Starpage Brave tell me "this page is not secure" and block it!

[apokalypse]

im using yandex for few days now and damn great for search for stream movies aka Spidey no way home and as for non-mainstream stuff seems better and i feel like 2011 where i got into alternative media what mainstream called Conspiracy.

looking for other search engine beside yandex right now for news(just go thought what MSM saying and know their narrative) and general stuff/local stuff...

[Franny]

I wrote to DDG last week and expressed my disappointment about their google-like censorship. Haven't heard from them so far...

[9ideon]

In the end they're all playing the game, "mens erger je niet" magnificus!

ZXcyymRpE3g

[helium]

More stupidity. I updated Firefox on one of my machines today before looking at the details of the update. Then decided to find out what was in the update. Their quote:

'Firefox allows users to choose from a number of built-in search engines to set as their default. In this release, some users who had previously configured a default engine might notice their default search engine has changed since Mozilla was unable to secure formal permission to continue including certain search engines in Firefox.'

In other words, Mozilla Firefox doesn't want you to use certain search engines. That's my assumption. They don't want to tell you that they are purposefully denying you easy asscess to 'certain search engines.' I also question who it is that is denying Mozilla Firefox so-called 'formal permission' to include 'certain search engines.' Let's Go Brandon maybe?

I wonder which search engines they are willing to provide access to? The list is easy to guess: Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Amazon, Ebay, Wikipedia, and, wait for it, Brave. However, I suspect that Brave is in the list because I have the addon running that loads the Brave search engine into Firefox.

Firefox has pushed at least two updates in the past couple of days. This latest one also messes with your chosen procedure for downloading files. They have a 'new' file download panel that appears to be useless unless you are truly dumb.

Sorry to any whom I've offended by that statement but that's my opinion. If you've chosen to have file downloads go to your download folder that default is now changed to make things more difficult for you.

I'm finally pushed over the edge as far as Firefox is concerned. Tomorrow Firefox will be deleted from all of my machines and replaced.

[palehorse]

More stupidity. I updated Firefox on one of my machines today before looking at the details of the update. Then decided to find out what was in the update. Their quote:

'Firefox allows users to choose from a number of built-in search engines to set as their default. In this release, some users who had previously configured a default engine might notice their default search engine has changed since Mozilla was unable to secure formal permission to continue including certain search engines in Firefox.'

In other words, Mozilla Firefox doesn't want you to use certain search engines. That's my assumption. They don't want to tell you that they are purposefully denying you easy asscess to 'certain search engines.' I also question who it is that is denying Mozilla Firefox so-called 'formal permission' to include 'certain search engines.' Let's Go Brandon maybe?

I wonder which search engines they are willing to provide access to? The list is easy to guess: Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Amazon, Ebay, Wikipedia, and, wait for it, Brave. However, I suspect that Brave is in the list because I have the addon running that loads the Brave search engine into Firefox.

Firefox has pushed at least two updates in the past couple of days. This latest one also messes with your chosen procedure for downloading files. They have a 'new' file download panel that appears to be useless unless you are truly dumb.

Sorry to any whom I've offended by that statement but that's my opinion. If you've chosen to have file downloads go to your download folder that default is now changed to make things more difficult for you.

I'm finally pushed over the edge as far as Firefox is concerned. Tomorrow Firefox will be deleted from all of my machines and replaced.


Yes, firefox has weird behavior, that's why I built my own (I mean compiled), it took quite a lot of time and after hundreds of tweaks (literally) I was able to finish compilation, to realize that I don't even need that.. but anyway, there is quite a few websites out there that will block access if you are not using the very last version of a modern browser.. I decided to investigate why is that.. the first thing I did was to spoof my browser user/agent string to the last version of Firefox, something like that >>> "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:97.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/97.0" <<< well, the websites now worked fine.. The second thing i checked was the number of requests to an ordinary website, which depends on how many add-ons you have installed (all alien piece of code not originally developed by mozilla are an alien code block and they call their home server :( ), not getting into many details, the number of requests is just absurd, you can try to do the same using another browser like GNU IceCat or Pale Moon, you will see those requests cut by half.

Google Chrome is even worse.

Fingerprinting is another big issue with browsers, and from my tests Tor Browser is the ONLY one that stand strong in the crowd, but you have to run it on the safest security level, otherwise it falls in the crowd.

Today the swing is, you sacrifice functionality for safety, the more functionality you have the more unsafe you become.

[norman]

This thread has become an informative read, thanks lots folks.

[Ewan]

I echo Norman's comment above and having being utterly ignorant to what fingerprint (https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/what-is-browser-fingerprinting-how-to-protect-yourself/) meant in this context. (I literally thought it was for laptop/touchscreen fingerprint entry!)

Having read the linked article highlighted I was set to throw my hands in the air and give up trying to maintain privacy, the more secure you make your browser the more unique (https://amiunique.org/) you are. The more unique you are the more you stand out.

Still intrigued? Here (https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/staying-anonymous-online-silk-road-founder-mistakes/) is another article explaining how the founder of The Silk Road was taken down. It includes a bunch of tips on safety at the end.

Given that I'm basically against data collection rather than actively trying to buy guns, drugs or doing anything illegal, and bringing my age into consideration, I begin to think what is the point!

[leavesoftrees]

I'm finally pushed over the edge as far as Firefox is concerned. Tomorrow Firefox will be deleted from all of my machines and replaced.
what are you replacing it with

[helium]

I'm finally pushed over the edge as far as Firefox is concerned. Tomorrow Firefox will be deleted from all of my machines and replaced.
what are you replacing it with

I'm really conflicted as to which browser I want to use. As pointed out above, safety/privacy is a trade-off for functionality.

There is nothing I've found so far that fits the bill. Palehorse (above) has one solution but it's not an easy one to implement. That was a great post by the way.

Other items also must be considered than software and settings. Browsing 'smarts' in terms of habits and procedures followed can make or break any solution. I'd like to say more about browsing habits but haven't the time at the moment. Am gleefully preparing for a showdown with a property manager ignorant of federal regulations, while communicating the conflict in detail with evidence to a federal office of inspector general. Lots of fun. These people at the lower levels tend to be quite stupid so they are easy to corner when they break the rules. Trouble is, federal employees such as the office of inspector general are not so interested in doing their jobs, if they are even 'on the job' nowadays.

The US government is falling apart right in front of our eyes in real time.

More later about browsing habits and procedures I follow.

[palehorse]

I have one spare laptop I use in parallel, I have Tails OS on a USB thumb drive, it will not write to the hard disk neither to the USB thumb drive because I do not use the data persistence feature, it is a good setup to make research and communicate with others, but if you have to save something, you still have to download and save it to another external media (do not use cloud storage for that), it is a habit doing it, but it is a safer way to be connected on internet.
Tails always connect to the Tor network by default, it is slower, Tor adds an extra latency to each packet and if the user do not follow certain procedures well explained in their docs, it won't help. (Always remember nothing is 100% safe)

https://tails.boum.org/

Perhaps it is a better way using tails instead of setup everything yourself.. which can be a pain in the ass (I have both cases, one Laptop I did myself all the setup, the other one I use Tails - both are ok, I am bare bones in terms of applications, I only have installed what I use).
For example, in Linux simple tools like `wget`, `curl`, `ftp` and a few others can denounce/broadcast/compromise your real ISP IP address if not configured properly, you have to configure the proxy option with these tools, otherwise it will use your real IP address. It is a total compromise!!! if you are aiming to use the internet safely. The good thing about Tails, it had done that for you already.

In Linux some programs has the proxy option available, other not, then you have to open the setting files and configure/set it yourself, some other programs has no proxy features available at all (I personally avoid them, if they somehow has access to internet - a simple ping to an external server is a compromise).

When talking about these things, the common and lazy argument is "Oh! I have nothing to hide", but if anyone think for just a minute you will realize that it has nothing to do with hiding things (except the dirty secrets of the ones in control haha), it has to do with our freedom of speech that they are taking away from us, it is nothing about selling/buying "parafernalias" online, it is nothing about hiring killers online, just think for a minute, the entire narrative is created around these bad things (and they use it against us, assuming it is all bad - one size fits all).. They want to remove your privacy, your freedom, your anonymity, they want to turn the spotlight right in your face and watch you all the time, tracking and surveilling you, anyone comfortable with that can just ignore and turn a blind eye, but it is what it is, they create control and we mitigate it... mouse and cat game goes on and on and on.. We the people have to circumvent censorship all the time.

Do not give up your freedom, fight for it, boycott the tech giants, use open source, free software, remember many died and a lot more are arrested because they tried so hard to make their points, to help improve humanity in better ways far out of the freak controllers.

In doubt just do not use anything that can potentially compromise your safety. It still the best approach. I myself few times decided not to look into certain things because I was not sure if my current setup was good enough. A while ago I was on IRC chatting in a group asking for materials like old scanned books, when someone flagged me, giving my ISP name and very close location from where I was, (a while ago, all customer base of Thai ISPs was public available on internet, yes names, address, CC, etc.. knowing that I immediately correlated the thing - and it was just a DCC automated message that I received, not a person!!! go figure) that scared the beejezus out of me, just saying there is too much technology out there, and too much insecure system (leaking constantly), and we do not know who is in the other side, they can track people down pretty fast nowadays, agents are rooted everywhere.

I repeat the statement here "In doubt just do not use anything that can potentially compromise your safety."

Warning: I have no intention of scaring anyone, in doubt always have a second opinion with someone you trust, but things are what they are. Be safe friends.

[gord]

Agree with everything palehorse said just above.

Anyway here's another
List of free, open source and privacy respecting services and alternatives to privative services (https://github.com/pluja/awesome-privacy)
at github for those who like to dive into such things.

[Ewan]

Installed Palemoon this morning. I didn't get the latest one as it is based on Firefox's latest builds and Firefox 99.x is horrific imo.

However.... when going into settings there is an announcement that "Your browser is being managed by your organisation." ?insert several question marks liberally interspersed with exclamation marks?

Under Privacy and Tracking Protection you cannot select the strict option!

In about:config settings several disturbing discoveries.

privacy.trackingprotection.enabled is set to false and is also locked! I can't change it.

security.dialog_enable_delay is also locked and cannot be set to (zer)0

There is no setting for canvas.poisondata which was in earlier incarnations of Palemoon and obfuscated fingerprinting effectively.

I tested a few sites and discovered 100's of trackers were being used. Then realised I had not installed my favourite add-on NoScript. After marking Google.com as untrusted the tracking was vastly reduced but some still exist.

I habitually run Ccleaner after any seesion as a matter of course which immediately removes those trackers.

So, better than the latest incarnation of Firefox but still suspect.

[segwayrider]

I thought DDG was the answer to dumping google (I won't cap that name). I'll re-start my search for a search engine not tied to google. Thank you for the information.

[apokalypse]

i love Yandex...great search for stream stuff, do quick search for sport stuff with typical channel and i got it...i was stuggling finding sports stream like NBA on others but on yandex able to find it so easy.

just tried typical TV channel on yandex and found few stream...i have heard from various people saying Yandex is great for stuff such as streaming movies-tv shows..ect.

[cannawizard]

i'll stick to google search, i see no difference in any of them, "false options, same narrative" ~


:sun:

[palehorse]

Installed Palemoon this morning. I didn't get the latest one as it is based on Firefox's latest builds and Firefox 99.x is horrific imo.

However.... when going into settings there is an announcement that "Your browser is being managed by your organisation." ?insert several question marks liberally interspersed with exclamation marks?

Under Privacy and Tracking Protection you cannot select the strict option!

In about:config settings several disturbing discoveries.

privacy.trackingprotection.enabled is set to false and is also locked! I can't change it.

security.dialog_enable_delay is also locked and cannot be set to (zer)0

There is no setting for canvas.poisondata which was in earlier incarnations of Palemoon and obfuscated fingerprinting effectively.

I tested a few sites and discovered 100's of trackers were being used. Then realised I had not installed my favourite add-on NoScript. After marking Google.com as untrusted the tracking was vastly reduced but some still exist.

I habitually run Ccleaner after any seesion as a matter of course which immediately removes those trackers.

So, better than the latest incarnation of Firefox but still suspect.


I did some dig into it, and found out that PaleMoon team developers left intentionally set per Mozilla default many of these parameters, they say the ones that are relevant to them are set like that.

I am using Pale Moon Version 29.4.2 for Linux (older version) and these parameters you mentioned above are "togglable" for me.

Another thing that worth to mention: Every time we "the users" set the tracking (Do not track me), a flag is added to the header of the request for that website, it is entirely up to the website been requested to obey or not that request, it is something that is not under our "the users" control, that's why you will find in some security circles or browser team developers, they do not care much about these settings, anything that lies beyond user's control, is not that important in the eyes of a security research, these are external variables.

Here is how I deal with that:
https://i.imgur.com/fqmr2Qw.png
https://i.imgur.com/ykQTaOd.png

I also have installed the add-ons:

https://i.imgur.com/b8TfE9D.png

- uBlock Origin (seems to work nicely with google)
- eMatrix (more or less as NoScript)
- Secret Agent (nice plugin that allow to change HTTP headers - I rotate my header with every single HTTP request - no need to say it won't work for many websites behind proxies like cloudflare, they see this behavior as a treat)



Old article showing request with Tracking On/Off, the results are very subjective, that only shows that certain websites respected that request, it is from 2014, things changed a lot since then.
https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2014/11/12/quantifying-the-effects-of-firefoxs-tracking-protection/

[helium]

I'm still using Firefox and not pleased. Same with Brave search. It's a dud. Haven't found any good replacements though.

Ewan:

There could be registry hacks under windows that would release that administrator control for security settings. At least I know there's a simple hack to prevent the latest Firefox from naggin you to death to download updates. Many updates don't pertain to my use and are not security related. Search for 'undo admin lock on firefox' if I find anything relevant I'll share it.

The message I get when I try to manually update using the registry setting is 'your administrator is mananging updates.'

Here is one of many sites with the update registry hack: https://www.geekersdigest.com/how-to-disable-automatic-updates-firefox-windows/

I'm not sure if you're windoz or linux. The regisrty hack is a policy setting under Software so maybe the Palmoon devs placed a security setting in that same registry folder.

I'd just use Tails but I need a dark background and a few other things that Tails lacks. I have a ton of redundant add-ons loaded under Firefox 100. I delete and add them at will to help prevent fingerprinting. It's also fairly easy to spoof the user agent for Firefox, but I'm not doing that right now.

[Franny]

Perhaps it's time for DDG to update their privacy statement for users...

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/duckduckgo-browser-allows-microsoft-trackers-due-to-search-agreement/amp/

DuckDuckGo browser allows Microsoft trackers due to search agreement
May 24 2022

The privacy-focused DuckDuckGo browser purposely allows Microsoft trackers on third-party sites due to an agreement in their syndicated search content contract between the two companies.

DuckDuckGo is a search engine that prides itself on its privacy by not tracking your searches or your behavior while performing searches. Furthermore, instead of building user profiles to display interest-based advertisements, DuckDuckGo will use contextual advertisements from partners, like Ads by Microsoft.

While DuckDuckGo does not store any personal identifiers with your search queries, Microsoft advertising may track your IP (https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/company/ads-by-microsoft-on-duckduckgo-private-search/) address and other information when clicking on an ad link for "accounting purposes" but it is not associated with a user advertising profile.

DuckDuckGo also offers a privacy-centric web browser for iOS and Android that promotes many privacy features, including HTTPS-always encryption, third-party cookie blocking, and tracker blocking.

"Tracker Radar automatically blocks hidden third-party trackers we can find lurking on websites you visit in DuckDuckGo, which stops the companies behind those trackers from collecting and selling your data," explains the Apple App Store page (https://apps.apple.com/app/duckduckgo-privacy-browser/id663592361) for the DuckDuckGo Privacy Browser.

DuckDuckGo browser allows Microsoft trackers

However, while performing a security audit of the DuckDuckGo Privacy Browser, security researcher Zach Edwards discovered that while the browser blocks Google and Facebook trackers, it allowed Microsoft trackers to continue running.

https://twitter.com/thezedwards/status/1528808795983319041

Further tests showed that DuckDuckGo allowed trackers related to the bing.com and linkedin.com domains while blocking all other trackers.

In response to Edwards' long thread on the subject, DuckDuckGo CEO and Founder Gabriel Weinberg confirmed that their browser intentionally allows Microsoft trackers third-party sites due to a search syndication agreement with Redmond.

https://twitter.com/yegg/status/1528838114558484480

This has led to quite the uproar on Hacker News (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31490515), where Weinberg has been defending the company's transparency surrounding the agreements with Microsoft.

However, Weinberg has made it clear that this restriction is only in their browser and does not affect the DuckDuckGo search engine.

"Tracking is tracking"

While DuckDuckGo has been transparent regarding the advertisement partnership with Microsoft, it is not clear why they did not disclose the allowing of Microsoft trackers until a security researcher discovered it.

This revelation comes at the wrong time, as DuckDuckGo recently went after Google for their new 'Topics' and 'FLEDGE' tracking methods, saying, "Google says they're better for privacy, but the simple fact is tracking is tracking, no matter what you call it."

https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1524342702552322049

After publication of this story, DuckDuckGo's Weinberg replied to our Tweet stating that they are working to remove this restriction from their agreement and to be more transparent in app store descriptions.

"In addition, we are working with Microsoft to remove this limited restriction the article refers to. We're also working on updates to our app store descriptions to have more information. Hope this is helpful context," tweeted Weinberg.

BleepingComputer was also sent the following statement from DuckDuckGo CEO Gabriel Weinberg, which is in its entirety below:

"We have always been extremely careful to never promise anonymity when browsing, because that frankly isn’t possible given how quickly trackers change how they work to evade protections and the tools we currently offer. When most other browsers on the market talk about tracking protection, they are usually referring to 3rd-party cookie protection and fingerprinting protection, and our browsers for iOS, Android, and our new Mac beta, impose these restrictions on third-party tracking scripts, including those from Microsoft.

What we're talking about here is an above-and-beyond protection that most browsers don't even attempt to do — that is, blocking third-party tracking scripts before they load on 3rd party websites. Because we're doing this where we can, users are still getting significantly more privacy protection with DuckDuckGo than they would using Safari, Firefox and other browsers. This blog post we published gets into the real benefits users enjoy from this approach, like faster load times (46% average decrease) and less data transferred (34% average decrease). Our goal has always been to provide the most privacy we can in one download, by default without any complicated settings."

Microsoft declined our request for comment.

Update 5/24/22: Added Gabriel Weinberg's statement.