Dead or Alive

[DaveToo]

I would just like to get a feeling for where Avaloners are at w.r.t. a few famous people.
After the poll results are in I can begin to explain the whys and wherefores. :)

[Denise/Dizi]

Biden had more than a face lift... Just sayin.....

[pyrangello]

So there's still a fence around d.c. and they have a fake stage used for many of Biden's appearances, what is really going on? Did the coyote ever catch the road runner? Who's on first? And what's the definition of IS ? No wonder we take so many aspiring!

[mizo]

I also believe that London Bridge is Down...

[Anchor]

The poll is a little unclear, for example in questioning who are "dead" the poll overlooks those who have been replaced with look-a-likes.

I voted based on the original entity known as ....

[Le Chat]

I'm interested in the whole Paul/Faul arguments.
What particularly intrigues me is what Heather Mills knows, and how she has taken great care to ensure all is revealed should anything 'untoward' happen to her....

[Journeyman]

For the record I've voted Biden dead, Trump alive, Putin alive and original McCartney dead. I also think London Bridge is down and predict that the chosen date for that announcement will have some ritual significance in much the same way that 99 year old Philip happened to die on the 99th day of the year. It will just happen like that as it so often does...

However I really have little idea and could just as likely have tossed a coin. The 'real' world isn't feeling so real at the moment. That could be my disassociating craziness, or simply the results of decades of mind control programming, advanced algorithm control over data, cgi video, deliberate false trails etc etc. To some extent I think we're all victims of a control matrix far more sophisticated and pervasive than any of us realise and that makes definitive statements on these issues difficult to substantiate. Biden doesn't look like the same guy as a few years ago. Putin also has some differences, but less stark to my eyes. I honestly think all these people have doubles in any case and so much is invested in their storylines it may simply be too problematic to trust to only having one credible iteration if a random heart attack should strike.


I'm interested in the whole Paul/Faul arguments.
What particularly intrigues me is what Heather Mills knows, and how she has taken great care to ensure all is revealed should anything 'untoward' happen to her....

I think the Sage of Quay site is informative on this: http://www.sageofquay.com/ My take is that the Beatles were a power structure project from way back when and the replacement of Paul was either expedient or a part of the plan from the beginning. They were and are a massive rabbit hole in and of themselves, dig into it long enough and the occult/power structure themes are very clear to discern. Whether this is an effective use of ones time is probably a different question!

[Dumpster Diver]

I'm interested in the whole Paul/Faul arguments.
What particularly intrigues me is what Heather Mills knows, and how she has taken great care to ensure all is revealed should anything 'untoward' happen to her....

…umm, the guy that played John Lennon in the Movie Yesterday was/is the real John Lennon. John’s death was faked for some deep state motive.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8079248/

http://mileswmathis.com/lennon.pdf



So…Paul is dead and John is alive…?

[Denise/Dizi]

For the record I've voted Biden dead, Trump alive, Putin alive and original McCartney dead. I also think London Bridge is down and predict that the chosen date for that announcement will have some ritual significance in much the same way that 99 year old Philip happened to die on the 99th day of the year. It will just happen like that as it so often does...

However I really have little idea and could just as likely have tossed a coin. The 'real' world isn't feeling so real at the moment. That could be my disassociating craziness, or simply the results of decades of mind control programming, advanced algorithm control over data, cgi video, deliberate false trails etc etc. To some extent I think we're all victims of a control matrix far more sophisticated and pervasive than any of us realise and that makes definitive statements on these issues difficult to substantiate. Biden doesn't look like the same guy as a few years ago. Putin also has some differences, but less stark to my eyes. I honestly think all these people have doubles in any case and so much is invested in their storylines it may simply be too problematic to trust to only having one credible iteration if a random heart attack should strike.


I'm interested in the whole Paul/Faul arguments.
What particularly intrigues me is what Heather Mills knows, and how she has taken great care to ensure all is revealed should anything 'untoward' happen to her....

I think the Sage of Quay site is informative on this: http://www.sageofquay.com/ My take is that the Beatles were a power structure project from way back when and the replacement of Paul was either expedient or a part of the plan from the beginning. They were and are a massive rabbit hole in and of themselves, dig into it long enough and the occult/power structure themes are very clear to discern. Whether this is an effective use of ones time is probably a different question!

I voted much the same... But not entirely.... And I believe London Bridge is down as well...

I believe the "Others" are making a huge showing these days... And everyone believes it is just cosmetic upgrades... In fact I recently saw a show that mentioned something about Joe Biden's facelift hahaha.. The clones/drones are misbehaving in a big way these days... And I am under the mindset it is deliberate tampering by those that are aware what they are, who want to, in some way... Show the public they're not what we believe them to be...

They did this with George Bush Jr. once while he was on stage, just rewrote his speech and fed it to him, and he went on and didn't realize what he said until after he had said it, and then he looked perplexed HAHAHA.

Bill and Kerry interviewed George Green years ago, and I believed his testimony about the "Others"... Not a doubt in my mind. With Hillary having her own issues, and apparatus hooked up to her leg in some of the past debates, and her collapse and her strange head bobbing? I think she "fell" years ago as well.

As far as the entertainment industry, why not use them? They are cash cows for those controlling such things... As far as Paul? I wasn't so sure... But it wouldn't surprise me.

[Denise/Dizi]

I found this video which is really astonishing... This is a tour of famous homes, and when they reached Paul Mc Cartney's childhood home, a man, who completely resembles the real Paul, came out to greet, and interact with the visitors. One even noted how much he resembled Paul, and attributed that to living in the home, while another, speaking of venues, was given more information by this "Resident" as to where The Beatles actually walked while playing that venue...

Just interesting..

6UTDvwqHb7o

Did they depart the group, and replace him, given the Beatles were so popular in their day, to keep the band going? It's certainly possible. Add that to what Heather Mills implies, and one never knows!

[DaveToo]

The poll is a little unclear, for example in questioning who are "dead" the poll overlooks those who have been replaced with look-a-likes.

I voted based on the original entity known as ....

Jeez, this time I tried to make my poll as simple as could be and you still find it to be unclear. :)
Dead to me means 'six feet under'. The flesh and body have decomposed or started to decompose.

If someone has died and they brought in a look-alike (human or alien) that still does not change the fact that the original person has died.

[JackMcThorn]

Hollywood was getting obsessed with look-a-likes since the early 198os. They used to have contests. My Dad won one of them and was on tele for like 15 seconds. My Mum was there, but they cut her out of the picture.

[DaveToo]

I must say, this poll is giving results that I was not expecting!
All is good. :)

I encourage as many people as possible to take part in it.
And by all means please continue to expound on the reasons for
your choices!

I will hold back a while on the reason(s) I put together the poll until
we get a larger pool of results.

[Mari]

What about the clones? I've read Putin and Biden are, so I suppose then that the originals of those are dead? No real idea, just throwing it out there...

[Mari]

I found this video which is really astonishing... This is a tour of famous homes, and when they reached Paul Mc Cartney's childhood home, a man, who completely resembles the real Paul, came out to greet, and interact with the visitors. One even noted how much he resembled Paul, and attributed that to living in the home, while another, speaking of venues, was given more information by this "Resident" as to where The Beatles actually walked while playing that venue...

Just interesting..

6UTDvwqHb7o

Did they depart the group, and replace him, given the Beatles were so popular in their day, to keep the band going? It's certainly possible. Add that to what Heather Mills implies, and one never knows!


A bit off-topic here, but can't resist this:

Don't know about the 'Paul is dead' scenario, but his second wife, Heather Mills was definitely a threat to the establishment due to her passionate involvement with certain causes (animal rights, war, mines etc) which, as 'Lady' MCcartney she had no intention of keeping quiet about. I can guess that maybe, too, she found out some 'secrets' about Paul/The Beatles which would've been detrimental to their Legend?
Certainly the press did a hatchet job on her shortly after their marriage and did their utmost to destroy her character. It was a dress-rehearsal for the Jeremy Corbyn bashing to come (leader of the Labour party) What really struck me though, was that all through the media hate campaign her husband never once spoke out for her or(appeared) to support her in any way. He had to keep his mouth shut.. The marriage broke up very quickly. My educated guess was that she had to 'go' as his wife (after all he was a 'Sir') and most of the showbusiness 'Sirs' in the UK anyway are well and truly under the establishment's thumb.
He was never my favourite Beatle and became even less so, after this.
Sorry, back to topic :)

[Le Chat]

I found this video which is really astonishing... This is a tour of famous homes, and when they reached Paul Mc Cartney's childhood home, a man, who completely resembles the real Paul, came out to greet, and interact with the visitors. One even noted how much he resembled Paul, and attributed that to living in the home, while another, speaking of venues, was given more information by this "Resident" as to where The Beatles actually walked while playing that venue...

Just interesting..

6UTDvwqHb7o

Did they depart the group, and replace him, given the Beatles were so popular in their day, to keep the band going? It's certainly possible. Add that to what Heather Mills implies, and one never knows!

Denise/Dizi,
you may find this pertinent/interesting, and touches on 'Mike/Paul' who is featured in the video link you posted...

http://mileswmathis.com/paul8.pdf

[DaveToo]

What about the clones? I've read Putin and Biden are, so I suppose then that the originals of those are dead? No real idea, just throwing it out there...

Clones, doubles, look-alikes... or whatever you want to call them, they are ALL not the original person.

So let me be absolutely clear.

If Biden is alive, they STILL could be using a clone/double/look-alike etc.
If that was the case you should answer: Biden is alive (even though the person they put in front of us all the time would not be Biden).

If Biden is dead, and they are using a clone/double/look-alike etc.,
you would answer: Biden is dead.

[Denise/Dizi]

Hate to say it but Elvis also had a "Twin"... And some of the images of both the Mc Cartney's also resemble him... In fact while looking at images, I had to do a double take at one point, as they looked they they could have been related to eachother... With cloning, and the mass amounts of rumors that it is being used, just makes you wonder HOW LONG it has being used?

It is reported that Michael Jackson hired the services of cloning centers after his hair caught fire while filming a Pepsi commercial as well.. And don't get me started on how many dopplegangers Katy Perry has in the entertainment industry...

I love that you started this thread...

[Denise/Dizi]

I found this video which is really astonishing... This is a tour of famous homes, and when they reached Paul Mc Cartney's childhood home, a man, who completely resembles the real Paul, came out to greet, and interact with the visitors. One even noted how much he resembled Paul, and attributed that to living in the home, while another, speaking of venues, was given more information by this "Resident" as to where The Beatles actually walked while playing that venue...

Just interesting..

6UTDvwqHb7o

Did they depart the group, and replace him, given the Beatles were so popular in their day, to keep the band going? It's certainly possible. Add that to what Heather Mills implies, and one never knows!

Denise/Dizi,
you may find this pertinent/interesting, and touches on 'Mike/Paul' who is featured in the video link you posted...

http://mileswmathis.com/paul8.pdf

Just WOW...But it doesn't surprise me in the least...

I am surprised this is a subject that most tend to ignore? It is important in my opinion... And one of the things that I was investigating when I had my "Contact Experiences" as well... I bet no coincidence there. Given the tech lent to humanity, and the massive amounts of scientific advancements just in the last 50 years.... One has to assume "They" also had cloning technology, and used it...

And certainly the entertainment industry as well as musical industry would as well... All those places have been long ago infiltrated in my opinion, or has it been this way all along, with us just being little dumb sheep unable to notice it?

This leads to the obvious with the military industrial complex also being infiltrated... Are we really fighting alien proxy wars as some suggest? Deep Rabbit hole indeed...

While this is a relatively minor thing as far as Paul Mc Cartney, when put into perspective on a grand scale, it is highly troubling...

I love when Katy Perry collapsed on stage, and when Roseanne Barr was worried she may be "Droned"... All true in my opinion..

And it all needs further attention in my opinion. Once we begin to touch on it, perhaps "They" will begin to realize a certain percentage of the population can handle some truth at least.. But then we need to figure out what to do about it. I am sure they're trying desperately to manage it. What a load on their shoulders, while the population whines about flags, and petty nonsense.

[Brigantia]

Hate to say it but Elvis also had a "Twin"... And some of the images of both the Mc Cartney's also resemble him... In fact while looking at images, I had to do a double take at one point, as they looked they they could have been related to eachother... With cloning, and the mass amounts of rumors that it is being used, just makes you wonder HOW LONG it has being used?

It is reported that Michael Jackson hired the services of cloning centers after his hair caught fire while filming a Pepsi commercial as well.. And don't get me started on how many dopplegangers Katy Perry has in the entertainment industry...

I love that you started this thread...

Here's another rabbit hole for you Denise; I read this 2008 Twinseltown blog post years ago and liked it so much that I bookmarked it:

http://toolonginthisplace.blogspot.com/2008/11/twinsel-town.html

[DaveToo]

Speaking about body doubles.
Have they only been used for nefarious purposes (apart from Hollywood casting, professional/amateur impersonators etc.) ?
Are there any examples where we have proof of it (or admissions)?

[Spiral]

you may find this pertinent/interesting, and touches on 'Mike/Paul' who is featured in the video link you posted...

http://mileswmathis.com/paul8.pdf


Thanks for that, very interesting indeed.

I've seen the Winged Beatle vid & read about the fake Paul / Faul thing, but at the time it was posted (some years ago & not sure where) Modwiz said it couldn't be right because the guitar playing stayed the same & no one can play exactly like anyone else. That always stuck with me because he's a guitar player & would hear what I can't.

Well it's possible if it was Mike all along isn't it !

Hmmmmm.

[Matthew]

I think they are all alive but the British Queen could be dead

[Denise/Dizi]

I always thought Kurt Russel and Patrick Swayze looked alike, and often times mixed them up...

It would not surprise me to learn that most actors are being cloned, rumor has it they are already... One would think that if a "Look" sells well, why not create others with the same look?

I followed the link and agree, most do look very much alike. Some of the younger females especially, many were not even listed... While it is said we all have dopplegangers, I don't think it is as much of a coincidence as most would tend to believe... But that's just my opinion. Especially given how some of them behave... Perhaps drones not functioning properly? Wouldn't at all surprise me.

[DaveToo]

Most Avaloners who have read this post and/or taken part in the poll are probably scratching their heads wondering what this is all about.
If not for a fairly recent occurrence, I for one would belong to that group of confused members.

Before I explain what I mean, let me say this about the poll.
This is not rocket science. On this planet a person can either be dead or alive, much like a woman can either be pregnant or not pregnant.

Is it possible for someone to have died/been murdered etc. and the public not have been notified about? Of course.
But even in those cases, there is no grey area. The person would be dead, but most of the public wouldn't have learned about it.
In cases like this, it is possible that a body double could be used.

Is it possible for someone to fake a death and have a body double take their place? Of course. But again there is no grey area. The person would still be alive.

So what was the inspiration for this poll?
A certain woman (Kim Goguen) has declared that Biden, Trump and Putin are all dead (and she is serious about it). There is a thread dedicated to her here at Avalon. I have yet to hear her opinion on Paul McCartney's current status.

For all those who took part in the poll (and Kim), who voted that any of the four men are dead, the onus should be on you to prove your position, rather than others to prove the men are alive.

In other words, much like in law, "innocent until proven guilty", we have "alive until proven dead".

So for all those who voted that any of these men are dead, if you have the time an inclination, please do show us your proof. :)

[Denise/Dizi]

When I have some time without obligation, I will look for this "Proof"... At least some compelling things that I have seen that led me to my opinions on such things. I do not claim to know for certain, these are just my opinions..

[Denise/Dizi]

Just for fun, this is an interview about what they're putting on the market, imagine what they're hiding, and have been, for obvious reasons.. The video is already 3 years old


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8BPL_JURiE

[RunningDeer]

Just for fun, this is an interview about what they're putting on the market, imagine what they're hiding, and have been, for obvious reasons.. The video is already 3 years old


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8BPL_JURiE

Denise, how about another one more just for fun? When I heard the news reporter say, “Customizable robot clones,” what came to mind was the movie, “Lars and the Real Girl”. Fun movie. Great acting.


Lars and the Real Girl (3 min)
bt7tLjw2FRY


:offtopic:

[RunningDeer]

What about the clones? I've read Putin and Biden are, so I suppose then that the originals of those are dead? No real idea, just throwing it out there...

Clones, doubles, look-alikes... or whatever you want to call them, they are ALL not the original person.

So let me be absolutely clear.

If Biden is alive, they STILL could be using a clone/double/look-alike etc.
If that was the case you should answer: Biden is alive (even though the person they put in front of us all the time would not be Biden).

If Biden is dead, and they are using a clone/double/look-alike etc.,
you would answer: Biden is dead.

There's a school of thought that some of the characters are taken to "the spa", which is GTMO, i.e. Guantanamo Bay detention camp which is a United States military prison located within Guantanamo Bay Naval Base. There are other "spas" across the world as well. Replacements are used to keep the movie going.

It's hard to know who's been nixed, who waits for their comeuppance, or how much of it is fueled 'hopium.'

I've given myself a time out from it all. http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/smilies/noidea.gif

[Anchor]

I've given myself a time out from it all. http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/smilies/noidea.gif

Good idea!

[Denise/Dizi]

I can't help but reflect on some of the testimony given back in the day about the "Others", and the comments about people being worried that they couod be walking among us without us knowing, like "Stranger at the Pentagon".. And even when it was suggested they could even be in the White House... And then people like James Forestall began to get bumped off...

Just knowing what we have commonly available now, makes one wonder, what do they have that we aren't aware of? It doesn't take much effort to begin to piece together technologies for this and that, and realize that absolutely they could be using such things. If they only present the tech in bits and pieces, they hope we won't figure out that it all can be compiled into one such being.

Sometimes during the day I ponder such things and just go quiet in my daily routine. Really one cannot share what they're really thinking about when someone is whining about something mundane lol... I think I would go nuts if The Avalon community didn't exist hahaha.

[Journeyman]

Most Avaloners who have read this post and/or taken part in the poll are probably scratching their heads wondering what this is all about.
If not for a fairly recent occurrence, I for one would belong to that group of confused members.

Before I explain what I mean, let me say this about the poll.
This is not rocket science. On this planet a person can either be dead or alive, much like a woman can either be pregnant or not pregnant.

Is it possible for someone to have died/been murdered etc. and the public not have been notified about? Of course.
But even in those cases, there is no grey area. The person would be dead, but most of the public wouldn't have learned about it.
In cases like this, it is possible that a body double could be used.

Is it possible for someone to fake a death and have a body double take their place? Of course. But again there is no grey area. The person would still be alive.

So what was the inspiration for this poll?
A certain woman (Kim Goguen) has declared that Biden, Trump and Putin are all dead (and she is serious about it). There is a thread dedicated to her here at Avalon. I have yet to hear her opinion on Paul McCartney's current status.

For all those who took part in the poll (and Kim), who voted that any of the four men are dead, the onus should be on you to prove your position, rather than others to prove the men are alive.

In other words, much like in law, "innocent until proven guilty", we have "alive until proven dead".

So for all those who voted that any of these men are dead, if you have the time an inclination, please do show us your proof. :)

The burden of proof lies with those making a claim, but... there's a difference between someone outright making a knowledge claim and giving their opinion when requested. I don't accept that my burden in answering your question is as big as if I'd started a thread saying 'Putin and Biden are dead!'.

I also admitted I don't really have any idea, reliant as are we all, on media that could be faked or distorted? I've never met any of these people, they exist only on screens and in newspapers. All of which can be faked. In fact, please prove these people exist before I tell you if they're dead and solve the problem of hard solipsism (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-i-know-im-not-the-only-conscious-being-in-the-universe/#:~:text=I%20prefer%20to%20call%20it,will%20vanish%20when%20you%20die.) whilst you're at it :p

Now you could easily say 'aha he can't back his claim up so now he's trying to weasel out of it!' but that's not the case, well not quite :o. It may be hard though to support that claim without making others and providing proof would take forever.

With the excuses lodged, this is my thinking....

We live in an artfully constructed matrix, the bars are invisible and they govern our thinking, what we conceive. Control is exerted over politics, economics etc but the biggest object of all is control over the focus and development of human consciousness.

To that end, the actors on the world stage, politicians, diplomats, CEO's etc. are key players. Not because they're making the decisions, that's all taken care of elsewhere, but because they're the focus for the big narratives that the masses will follow.

If you're investing time and resources in these individuals you need to ensure a few things. Control could be via blackmail, but to a large extent it's not required because they're drawn from bloodline families that are already part of the game. These are the same families that supply the leading actors and I do not perceive any real difference between a leading actor and a head of state. They play each roles assigned to them. Maybe the most talented go to Hollywood and the also rans have to settle for being President :bigsmile:

The other variable is what if they have a sudden illness or accident in the middle of a narrative that's been decades in planning? Many could easily be replaced but if say Hitler slips in the shower in 1939 it may not be feasible to draft in Himmler as a replacement. How much better if you had an insurance policy? There are methods using twins, lookalikes, surgery, CGI etc etc. Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.

All of this may sound fanciful and I get that. I wish there was a shortcut way to get as crazy as I am :D However, there's one thread on Avalon that helped me get a better understanding of Hollywood and it's relationship and importance to the control structure of the world (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103615-Hollyweird-GreatAwakening&highlight=hollyweird). I think anyone who reads all of it will get at least a glimpse of a second occulted world beneath the 'real' one in which most live. A world that hints at planning over decades, hidden levers of power exerted via blackmail and secret society penetration of industry and politics.

That's the real 'real' world, a place where the control of public opinion and behaviour is the paramount goal of world governance and a goal to which massive resources are deployed. Leaving complex plans concerning world leaders to the chance of an unforeseen heart attack or accident wouldn't be sound planning, so my guess (that's all it really can be) is that provision is made for certain key characters to live just as long as their role in the script demands.

There, that's even nuttier than I thought it was going to be :D

[Mike Gorman]

The idea that Paul McCartney is dead and they used a 'Faul' look-a-like to carry on is bat-****-crazy, you cannot emulate a distinctive, talented and accomplished man like Mr McCartney, can't be done, his voice and his playing style, his song writing has not altered (you might not like his later work, but it is definitely Paul McCartney) plus his brother, Michael McCartney who formed the much less successful, but still famous comedy group 'Scaffold' has just published a retrospective biography, with photos of the early Beatles and stories of Paul and his own exploits, it is just impossible that Paul died. I admit there are some weird elements to the Beatles story, but they were spectacularly talented guys, also with bent senses of humor, nope I have never bought into the 'Paul is dead' malarkey.

[RunningDeer]

Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.

Great post, Journeyman. (as usual http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/smilies/laugh-big-smile-teeth.gif). If folks don't have a lot of time, then skip to the last 30 seconds. It's the perfect visual of this manipulated game of life.





“…so much of our world today comes to us through these screens. Which brings me back to that question of trust. Of whether what we see and hear is always as it seems on behalf of myself your queen and all at channel four, I trust…”


Deepfake Queen: 2020 Alternative Christmas Message (3:45)
IvY-Abd2FfM


Before I explain what I mean, let me say this about the poll.
This is not rocket science. On this planet a person can either be dead or alive, much like a woman can either be pregnant or not pregnant.

So for all those who voted that any of these men are dead, if you have the time an inclination, please do show us your proof. :)

The burden of proof lies with those making a claim, but... there's a difference between someone outright making a knowledge claim and giving their opinion when requested. I don't accept that my burden in answering your question is as big as if I'd started a thread saying 'Putin and Biden are dead!'.

I also admitted I don't really have any idea, reliant as are we all, on media that could be faked or distorted? I've never met any of these people, they exist only on screens and in newspapers. All of which can be faked. In fact, please prove these people exist before I tell you if they're dead and solve the problem of hard solipsism (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-i-know-im-not-the-only-conscious-being-in-the-universe/#:~:text=I%20prefer%20to%20call%20it,will%20vanish%20when%20you%20die.) whilst you're at it :p

Now you could easily say 'aha he can't back his claim up so now he's trying to weasel out of it!' but that's not the case, well not quite :o. It may be hard though to support that claim without making others and providing proof would take forever.

With the excuses lodged, this is my thinking....

We live in an artfully constructed matrix, the bars are invisible and they govern our thinking, what we conceive. Control is exerted over politics, economics etc but the biggest object of all is control over the focus and development of human consciousness.

To that end, the actors on the world stage, politicians, diplomats, CEO's etc. are key players. Not because they're making the decisions, that's all taken care of elsewhere, but because they're the focus for the big narratives that the masses will follow.

If you're investing time and resources in these individuals you need to ensure a few things. Control could be via blackmail, but to a large extent it's not required because they're drawn from bloodline families that are already part of the game. These are the same families that supply the leading actors and I do not perceive any real difference between a leading actor and a head of state. They play each roles assigned to them. Maybe the most talented go to Hollywood and the also rans have to settle for being President :bigsmile:

The other variable is what if they have a sudden illness or accident in the middle of a narrative that's been decades in planning? Many could easily be replaced but if say Hitler slips in the shower in 1939 it may not be feasible to draft in Himmler as a replacement. How much better if you had an insurance policy? There are methods using twins, lookalikes, surgery, CGI etc etc. Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.

All of this may sound fanciful and I get that. I wish there was a shortcut way to get as crazy as I am :D However, there's one thread on Avalon that helped me get a better understanding of Hollywood and it's relationship and importance to the control structure of the world (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103615-Hollyweird-GreatAwakening&highlight=hollyweird). I think anyone who reads all of it will get at least a glimpse of a second occulted world beneath the 'real' one in which most live. A world that hints at planning over decades, hidden levers of power exerted via blackmail and secret society penetration of industry and politics.

That's the real 'real' world, a place where the control of public opinion and behaviour is the paramount goal of world governance and a goal to which massive resources are deployed. Leaving complex plans concerning world leaders to the chance of an unforeseen heart attack or accident wouldn't be sound planning, so my guess (that's all it really can be) is that provision is made for certain key characters to live just as long as their role in the script demands.

There, that's even nuttier than I thought it was going to be :D

[Journeyman]

The idea that Paul McCartney is dead and they used a 'Faul' look-a-like to carry on is bat-****-crazy

Mike, that's not even in my top 10 ;) I take your point on the playing style but I think if you state 'impossible' I'm worried Dave is going to hammer you with the burden of proof you're assuming :P

Fwiw although I picked the Faul side, it's not something I have any certainty over. What I am certain of is that if it didn't happen, there's some very odd aspects that would still require an explanation and that deception of one form or another is likely. I sometimes think that there's a deliberate attempt to surround many activities with a patina of uncertainty. False trails, deceptive breadcrumbs, call it what you will. It's remarkable to me how many different rabbit holes there are and how if you dig diligently enough you will often find corroboration. One of my favourite YT content makers says this is an actual feature set of the reality we inhabit, now that's another deep claim that will be too far out for many!

[Ernie Nemeth]

The poll is not clear at all.
Is this just one vote or is it multiple votes?
Do you have to pick just one, deciding which is the most dead or most alive?
Or is it a vote for each, whether dead or alive?

[DaveToo]

The poll is not clear at all.
Is this just one vote or is it multiple votes?
Do you have to pick just one, deciding which is the most dead or most alive?
Or is it a vote for each, whether dead or alive?

Sorry Ernie.
I thought it would be intuitive. :)

Here are ALL the possibilities:

1. Don't partake in the poll.
2. Partake in the poll and make a single choice.
3. Partake in the poll and make two choices.
4. Partake in the poll and make three choices.
5. Partake in the poll and make four choices.
6. Partake in the poll and make five choices.
7. Partake in the poll and make six choices.
8. Partake in the poll and make seven choices.
9. Partake in the poll and make eight choices.

Because we don't have control of how the poll function works, we are
left with the above possibilities.

If I was allowed to program the poll, I would make it so that
the person could decide whether they wanted to vote for one, two,
three, or four of the people, but they could only vote for 'dead' OR
'alive' (not both).

[DaveToo]

The burden of proof lies with those making a claim, but... there's a difference between someone outright making a knowledge claim and giving their opinion when requested. I don't accept that my burden in answering your question is as big as if I'd started a thread saying 'Putin and Biden are dead!'.

I don't think you'd carry a burden in either case, this being Project Avalon. :)

But if you simply took part in the poll, it would be strictly anonymous.
Writing about your poll choice here reveals your position.
Starting a thread as you named it, would not to my mind, carry any more 'skin' so to speak.




The other variable is what if they have a sudden illness or accident in the middle of a narrative that's been decades in planning? Many could easily be replaced but if say Hitler slips in the shower in 1939 it may not be feasible to draft in Himmler as a replacement. How much better if you had an insurance policy? There are methods using twins, lookalikes, surgery, CGI etc etc. Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.

To an amateur, the broadcast may well be convincing. Just for starters, to anyone with a keen sense of hearing, the difference in their voices would be an immediate giveaway. :(

[DaveToo]

The idea that Paul McCartney is dead and they used a 'Faul' look-a-like to carry on is bat-****-crazy, you cannot emulate a distinctive, talented and accomplished man like Mr McCartney, can't be done, his voice and his playing style, his song writing has not altered (you might not like his later work, but it is definitely Paul McCartney) plus his brother, Michael McCartney who formed the much less successful, but still famous comedy group 'Scaffold' has just published a retrospective biography, with photos of the early Beatles and stories of Paul and his own exploits, it is just impossible that Paul died. I admit there are some weird elements to the Beatles story, but they were spectacularly talented guys, also with bent senses of humor, nope I have never bought into the 'Paul is dead' malarkey.

Yes, many don't seem to understand that bringing out a body double convincingly is not child's play!
Beyond the visual (in Paul's case) if you could get all of that sorted out,
at the bare minimum you'd need to take care of:

a) his talent for writing songs in a very specific style.
b) his ability to play bass guitar left-handed.
c) his ability to sing and play bass guitar in his distinctive style.
d) the qualities of his voice, down to detailed pitch analysis (akin to a fingerprint!)
e) his speech phrasing
f) his mannerisms (without any slip ups)
g) his memory
h) his personality traits
i) etc...

[Journeyman]

The burden of proof lies with those making a claim, but... there's a difference between someone outright making a knowledge claim and giving their opinion when requested. I don't accept that my burden in answering your question is as big as if I'd started a thread saying 'Putin and Biden are dead!'.

I don't think you'd carry a burden in either case, this being Project Avalon. :)

But if you simply took part in the poll, it would be strictly anonymous.
Writing about your poll choice here reveals your position.
Starting a thread as you named it, would not to my mind, carry any more 'skin' so to speak.




The other variable is what if they have a sudden illness or accident in the middle of a narrative that's been decades in planning? Many could easily be replaced but if say Hitler slips in the shower in 1939 it may not be feasible to draft in Himmler as a replacement. How much better if you had an insurance policy? There are methods using twins, lookalikes, surgery, CGI etc etc. Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.

To an amateur, the broadcast may well be convincing. Just for starters, to anyone with a keen sense of hearing, the difference in their voices would be an immediate giveaway. :(

So I mentioned the CH4 broadcast not because it was so perfect that one wouldn't notice a difference, but to illustrate what was available with what we must assume was not a massive budget and without any attempt on the producer to actually fool people that this was the Queen.

It's reasonable to assume that if one had far greater resources and time one could obtain a much more convincing effect, even with the level of tech that's publicly available. If one accepted that tech levels are likely higher for those with military/intel agency/billionaire level access, then it's not beyond the realms of possibility that all of us have seen broadcasts of people that were not actually what they appeared to be.

We are currently seeing what appear to be extensive use of green screen tech by Zelensky, Biden and more.



The idea that Paul McCartney is dead and they used a 'Faul' look-a-like to carry on is bat-****-crazy, you cannot emulate a distinctive, talented and accomplished man like Mr McCartney, can't be done, his voice and his playing style, his song writing has not altered (you might not like his later work, but it is definitely Paul McCartney) plus his brother, Michael McCartney who formed the much less successful, but still famous comedy group 'Scaffold' has just published a retrospective biography, with photos of the early Beatles and stories of Paul and his own exploits, it is just impossible that Paul died. I admit there are some weird elements to the Beatles story, but they were spectacularly talented guys, also with bent senses of humor, nope I have never bought into the 'Paul is dead' malarkey.

Yes, many don't seem to understand that bringing out a body double convincingly is not child's play!
Beyond the visual (in Paul's case) if you could get all of that sorted out,
at the bare minimum you'd need to take care of:

a) his talent for writing songs in a very specific style.
b) his ability to play bass guitar left-handed.
c) his ability to sing and play bass guitar in his distinctive style.
d) the qualities of his voice, down to detailed pitch analysis (akin to a fingerprint!)
e) his speech phrasing
f) his mannerisms (without any slip ups)
g) his memory
h) his personality traits
i) etc...

This is why its difficult to support one claim without making others.

I don't believe the contention is simply that Paul had an accident and was replaced. If that happened, there'd be so many ways it would be likely to come out.

The Beatles stopped performing live relatively early on in their careers. So the comparison of playing style is mostly regarding their studio output? The only way this works as a theory is if the Beatles were not what they appeared to be, four young working class lads from Liverpool and that this was as some contend a Tavistock operation from the outset. A lot of people will have already rolled their eyes at this point, but if you grant that as a working theory, then some of the questions around the style of music or playing style may not be as strong an objection as they first appear.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The Paul is dead thing was a stunt, a practical joke for a college campus newspaper that went completely out of control. More in the second half of this post (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19890-Paul-McCartney-really-is-Dead&p=1312642&viewfull=1#post1312642).

The 'forensic analysis' of Faul by Carlesi (that gave the conspiracy further legs), ended up being delegitimised. I wrecked it myself with my own facial recognition analysis. The idea that Paul is dead is, as Mike said, bats**t crazy, for the simple reason that it doesn't have a single leg to stand on.

[DaveToo]

Yes, many don't seem to understand that bringing out a body double convincingly is not child's play!
Beyond the visual (in Paul's case) if you could get all of that sorted out,
at the bare minimum you'd need to take care of:

a) his talent for writing songs in a very specific style.
b) his ability to play bass guitar left-handed.
c) his ability to sing and play bass guitar in his distinctive style.
d) the qualities of his voice, down to detailed pitch analysis (akin to a fingerprint!)
e) his speech phrasing
f) his mannerisms (without any slip ups)
g) his memory
h) his personality traits
i) etc...

This is why its difficult to support one claim without making others.

I don't believe the contention is simply that Paul had an accident and was replaced. If that happened, there'd be so many ways it would be likely to come out.

The Beatles stopped performing live relatively early on in their careers. So the comparison of playing style is mostly regarding their studio output? The only way this works as a theory is if the Beatles were not what they appeared to be, four young working class lads from Liverpool and that this was as some contend a Tavistock operation from the outset. A lot of people will have already rolled their eyes at this point, but if you grant that as a working theory, then some of the questions around the style of music or playing style may not be as strong an objection as they first appear.

Not just their studio output which is well-documented, but all of the live performances caught on tape, of which there were many.
Plus all of Paul's videotaped output after the Beatles disbanded.

[Journeyman]

Not just their studio output which is well-documented, but all of the live performances caught on tape, of which there were many.
Plus all of Paul's videotaped output after the Beatles disbanded.

Yes, I just guesstimated that there'd be more studio pre 66 content than live. Incidentally Mike Williams had said that the amps weren't plugged in on at least one of the 'live' performances, possibly the Ed Sullivan with (his contention) musicians playing backstage.

There's an enormous rabbit hole should you choose to explore it. Hundreds of hours on Mike Williams channel alone and whilst I play myself I don't claim to be able to discern playing styles sufficiently to definitively identify one player over another, (https://www.youtube.com/c/MikeWilliamsPaulIsDeadChannel/videos)there's accomplished musicians contributing there and elsewhere who have their own dissenting opinions on the playing/singing on the records as well as the composition of the songs.

Setting aside the musical question, I'll attempt an answer which will likely not satisfy, but hopefully clarify my position.

I believe if you, I, or any open minded person were to follow Mike Williams, Andrew Arnett or other researchers down this rabbit hole I think we'd find repeated instances where the official story doesn't stack up with the available evidence. Hints, suggestions, suspicious episodes, links to people with high level or shady connections of their own. None of them definitive in themselves, all open to question and counter argument, but cumulatively opening up the idea that there's more afoot with The Beatles than mainstream understanding suggests.

The more you knew about occult symbolism, the more the songs, album (http://randalli-hinsonlife.blogspot.com/2010/07/what-wrong-with-beatles-alot-occult.html) covers, associated artwork would begin to yield the sort of results Mark Passios found (https://www.reddit.com/user/MagickaLuxor/comments/hwbb74/the_beatles_freemasonry_oto_and_the_illuminati/)in the Sgt Pepper cover. That may take you to Crowley's work and OTO, maybe to Tavistock or that strange point where the occult and the intelligence agencies merge? Or if you researched ancient Egyptian views of the Scarab or ritual significance of silver you may wonder about the choice of 'The Silver Beetles' as the first name of the band.

The more you knew about Astrology and numerology, the more you'd find timings of releases, tours, key moments in the bands history coinciding with significant movements and alignments in the heavens. If you dug into gematria you'd unearth numerical signalling (http://gematrinator.com/blog/index.php/2021/01/28/numerology-of-the-beatles-birthdays/) and correspondences (http://gematrinator.com/blog/index.php/2021/01/27/death-of-john-paul-i-connected-to-john-paul-of-the-beatles/) echoing again and again across different events (http://gematrinator.com/blog/index.php/2021/12/01/the-1980-murder-of-john-lennon-part-3/) concerning the key players.

All of this could be done at any point in their careers pre-and post band. You could pick 'Ram' or 'Egypt Station' (https://theoccultbeatles.wordpress.com/2018/08/15/the-egypt-connections-and-i-spy-the-all-seeing-eye/)and with sufficient knowledge you'd begin to find layers of occulted references. Of course you could continue to have the debate after all of this info is assembled as to whether it's coincidental or the work of third parties etc.

I have only dipped my toe in comparatively and I think there are better places for me to focus my attention so this post is likely as far as I'll take this, but one comment in the thread that Mark linked to resonated with me:


The only thing I can be sure of ,after many many hours looking into this (10 years ago) , is that someone want's us to believe this happened ....


This is the key point about 'Paul is dead' or 'Biden's facial features change' or 'there are two Donald Trumps' or 'Putin replaced by clone' or 'Queen Elizabeth has entered a new phase' or any of them.

Once you leave the path and go off the reservation seeking these or any other conspiracy subject you will not get the neat, all tied up in a bow rational explanation you are seeking. It's not going to work that way. You will find lots of 'evidence' that will not serve in isolation to prove a point to a third party. It will be hints and whispers, nods and winks to the illuminated, it could be a statue on a building, the design of an album cover, the odd choice of a particular producer or director on a project - things which mean nothing unless you've already done the legwork and began to look for layered meanings and links to seemingly disparate subjects.

I don't advocate going down the Paul is dead rabbit hole. I don't think you will learn anything there which will advance your own spiritual journey. You will find dirt eventually, as you would down the Jimmy Page Crowley hole, or David Bowie Kabbalahist hole or etc etc etc. Pick your globally successful, massively influential cultual icon who has enjoyed massive amounts of positive coverage from the mainstream media and you will eventually hit the signs.

It's enough to begin to understand the bars I talked of earlier. If the cultural icons and touchpoints are more than they first appear, we need to be aware / beware, and then we need to move on. 2022 Joe Biden may look to me more like Struan Rodger (https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.27471bb63792d626f459f78b3ca224f9?rik=LKHHFGcGWvX5BQ&pid=ImgRaw&r=0) than Obama's VP, but it ultimately doesn't matter if original Biden is dead or sipping mojitos on a secret island. I don't care whether Paul is Faul, something I can't verify either way beyond a reasonable doubt. I care about whether deceptionis used, hidden motives obscured, occult symbology employed, whether people are open and honest and working for our collective good, or devious, deceptive, dark and twisted as so many prove to be.

[DaveToo]

Not just their studio output which is well-documented, but all of the live performances caught on tape, of which there were many.
Plus all of Paul's videotaped output after the Beatles disbanded.


... I have only dipped my toe in comparatively and I think there are better places for me to focus my attention so this post is likely as far as I'll take this, but one comment in the thread that Mark linked to resonated with me:


The only thing I can be sure of ,after many many hours looking into this (10 years ago) , is that someone want's us to believe this happened ....


This is the key point about 'Paul is dead' or 'Biden's facial features change' or 'there are two Donald Trumps' or 'Putin replaced by clone' or 'Queen Elizabeth has entered a new phase' or any of them.

Well of course 'someone wants us to believe this has happened'. That someone can be a bunch of John or Jane Does or high-placed members of the cabal, or anyone in between.



... I don't advocate going down the Paul is dead rabbit hole. I don't think you will learn anything there which will advance your own spiritual journey. You will find dirt eventually, as you would down the Jimmy Page Crowley hole, or David Bowie Kabbalahist hole or etc etc etc. Pick your globally successful, massively influential cultual icon who has enjoyed massive amounts of positive coverage from the mainstream media and you will eventually hit the signs.

Don't worry, I won't be going down any Paul is dead rabbit hole. :)

[Journeyman]

I hadn't planned to look at this again as I outlined in my (excessively) wordy response in this thread. However I came across this:

https://pieceofmindful.com/2022/09/28/the-siren-song-of-sage-of-quay/#comment-273919

and it's fascinating and I think makes a good argument. Well worth reading, for people from both sides of the Paul is Dead argument.
For sceptics this should whet your appetite:


The whole of the Paul is Dead psyop, obviously in planning well before his alleged date of death, is utter nonsense.

[DaveToo]

For anyone interested in hearing James Corbett's take on the 'Paul is Dead' story, have a look at
this link. (https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1423-vinnie-caggiano-on-beatles-conspiracies/)

The segment is from 14:30 - 23:55.

Do watch the whole episode though if you'd like to hear many other Beatles conspiracies discussed.

The video is from early 2019.

[Johnnycomelately]

Besides some history nuggets and some enjoyable deluded talk, I most like how they endeavor to persevere to break Poe’s Law. Art or something.


For anyone interested in hearing James Corbett's take on the 'Paul is Dead' story, have a look at
this link. (https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1423-vinnie-caggiano-on-beatles-conspiracies/)

The segment is from 14:30 - 23:55.

Do watch the whole episode though if you'd like to hear many other Beatles conspiracies discussed.

The video is from early 2019.