The Asian Capitulation

[Rahul]

Project Avalon members and readers may find this worth a perusal. It is an article I wrote for the UK-based website Winter Oak.

The strapline sets the tone: "How did the home of ancient civilisations and profound spiritual doctrines become subservient to the globalist machine?"

And from the article text: "That was the next stage, the great leap forward for globalism-kind, which would grab decolonisation by the scruff of its untidy brown neck and pitch it into the carefully prepared cascade of revolutions – consumer, retail, mobility, telecom, financial, electronic, digital, fourth industrial."

You can find the article here (https://winteroak.org.uk/2022/11/28/the-asian-capitulation/).

[xidaijena]

The Asian Capitulation? Interesting.
One question: Have you ever been in China? Did you live with Chinese people for many days?
I read some of your article but I didn't see any words about Your real experience in Asia. Have you ever been to any countries in Asia? What were those?
I am waiting for your stories about them and see whether you are right or just talk the talk.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

You are from India? Oh, maybe you can share what your experience about China. I will be happy to hear what you will share.

[TomKat]

The Asian Capitulation? Interesting.
One question: Have you ever been in China? Did you live with Chinese people for many days?
I read some of your article but I didn't see any words about Your real experience in Asia. Have you ever been to any countries in Asia? What were those?
I am waiting for your stories about them and see whether you are right or just talk the talk.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

You are from India? Oh, maybe you can share what your experience about China. I will be happy to hear what you will share.

Jena, how's your social credit score?

[xidaijena]

The Asian Capitulation? Interesting.
One question: Have you ever been in China? Did you live with Chinese people for many days?
I read some of your article but I didn't see any words about Your real experience in Asia. Have you ever been to any countries in Asia? What were those?
I am waiting for your stories about them and see whether you are right or just talk the talk.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

You are from India? Oh, maybe you can share what your experience about China. I will be happy to hear what you will share.

Jena, how's your social score?

You share and then I will share.:handshake:

[Arcturian108]

Rahul,
I just read your excellent article. The only concept that I was expecting to see in it, but didn't was the idea of 'conformity'. I lived in Japan for a total of eight years between 1966 and 1990, and as an American, one of the things that struck me the most about the Japanese was how conformist they were. I remember one time while riding in a Tokyo subway car, that of about 1/3 of the women in that crowded car were all carrying an identical Gucci handbag! I am talking about ten different women all carrying the same exact status symbol! Only later did I discover that these bags were not even made of leather, but instead were extremely pricey plastic!

[TomKat]

[QUOTE=xidaijena;1530836]The Asian Capitulation? Interesting.
One question: Have you ever been in China? Did you live with Chinese people for many days?
I read some of your article but I didn't see any words about Your real experience in Asia. Have you ever been to any countries in Asia? What were those?
I am waiting for your stories about them and see whether you are right or just talk the talk.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

You are from India? Oh, maybe you can share what your experience about China. I will be happy to hear what you will share.

Jena, how's your social score?[/QUOTE

You share and then I will share.:handshake:
It's zero. But When the Chinese police show up at my door they will be shot, and that will raise my score. :-)

[Anchor]

Jena, how's your social credit score?

Is this a joke? I cant tell.

Eitherway, Canada is working on exactly the same technologies that would implement something similar. Careful what you wish for. Australia is in the same boat as well.

[onawah]

The strangest thing about people living in China is that they generally have less information about what is really going on in China than those who live outside its borders.
This is due to the extreme censorship imposed by the CCP.
That can be verifed by 2 Western guys, Matt and Winston, who lived and travelled around in China for years and who now have several youtube channels that reveal more authentic insights into China than many other sources I've seen, due to their firsthand experience.
(They also married Chinese women who still have relatives in China, though that presents some perils for all concerned as the CCP is not above taking hostages in attempts to silence and control expatriates.)

Their posts can be seen regularly on the "Turmoil in China" thread such as "The China Show", "Serpentza", "Laowhy86" , "ADVChina", etc.
They made a lot of friends in China who are awake enough to see through the CCP propaganda, and to understand the "Brave New 1984 World" they are trapped in.
And those people continue to connect with Matt and Winston and give them the news from the China insider perspective.

This is important because, as we know, the purpose of the NWO puppeteers is to maintain a tyrannical hold over the whole world and reduce the population to what would be a comfortable number of slaves, whose sole purpose would be to serve them and their insane agenda.

Other good sources are also posted regularly on that thread such as "China Revealed", "China in Focus", "Epoch Times", and more.

Now it looks like many of the Chinese people have become weary enough of living under so much tyranny with such restricting blinders on that they are willing to risk rebellion.
Although it appears they have a lengthy and difficult struggle ahead, not just because of the censorship, but because of the mess the CCP has made of the whole country.
And it looks like the next imposition on the way to the NWO the puppet masters intend for everyone, not just China, is through food shortages, and CBDC appears to be the way they will further implement that goal.
Also see: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120026-Biggest-Threat-To-Financial-Freedom-is-CBDC&p=1530722&viewfull=1#post1530722



Jena, how's your social credit score?

Is this a joke? I cant tell.

Eitherway, Canada is working on exactly the same technologies that would implement something similar. Careful what you wish for. Australia is in the same boat as well.

[xidaijena]

[QUOTE=xidaijena;1530836]The Asian Capitulation? Interesting.
One question: Have you ever been in China? Did you live with Chinese people for many days?
I read some of your article but I didn't see any words about Your real experience in Asia. Have you ever been to any countries in Asia? What were those?
I am waiting for your stories about them and see whether you are right or just talk the talk.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

You are from India? Oh, maybe you can share what your experience about China. I will be happy to hear what you will share.

Jena, how's your social score?[/QUOTE

You share and then I will share.:handshake:
It's zero. But When the Chinese police show up at my door they will be shot, and that will raise my score. :-)

NO DOUBT. You will have no chance to do that.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Jena, how's your social credit score?

Is this a joke? I cant tell.

Eitherway, Canada is working on exactly the same technologies that would implement something similar. Careful what you wish for. Australia is in the same boat as well.

He is talking himself. Let him alone.

[xidaijena]

Rahul,
I just read your excellent article. The only concept that I was expecting to see in it, but didn't was the idea of 'conformity'. I lived in Japan for a total of eight years between 1966 and 1990, and as an American, one of the things that struck me the most about the Japanese was how conformist they were. I remember one time while riding in a Tokyo subway car, that of about 1/3 of the women in that crowded car were all carrying an identical Gucci handbag! I am talking about ten different women all carrying the same exact status symbol! Only later did I discover that these bags were not even made of leather, but instead were extremely pricey plastic!

I know what you mean. To me, they are normal. Just respect. They have their culture and values. No need to be surprised.

[Baby Steps]

Stories that I have heard from Malaysia strongly suggest that the current leadership makes much play of its anti colonial ideals. Over time the stories of colonial atrocities are used and exaggerated to distract the people from the issues of the day and the shortfalls in the current leadership. This can lead to a situation where the post colonial political class implements tyrannical measures while portraying themselves as anti colonial .

Of course I am not playing down the horrors of colonialism . India is different from much of the Far East. India embraced British concepts of democracy and they are to be congratulated on preserving their democracy AND pushing back on the modern horrors of large western agri corporations who are attempting to poison that sector , and have caused 180,000 farmer suicides. See the wonderful Vandana Shiva for more on this.

Generalisation is also risky but in the Far East in general there is little to compare with the democratic ideas born in Ancient Greece , or much philosophy regarding innate rights and freedoms possessed by the individual .

Instead there is a respect for power in whatever form it takes. These are the powerful people. They require respect and compliance , and that is the way of things. Little or no suspicion of all and any power.

Therefore the post colonial capitulation to corporate tyranny is succeeding . We in the west can look to China for a depiction of the modern techno tyranny that we see being implemented here.

However it appears that the Chinese have now had enough. It is in the nature of tyranny that it keeps pushing or progressing until a limit is reached. Stories coming out of China are of mass rioting around the country triggered by crazy anti covid measures including travel passes ‘going red’ by remote control . People forced from their homes. Losing access to their bank accounts, being forcibly dragged into the camps . Sooner or later there was always going to be a reaction .

[Suzi E]

Rahul, I have to say what a brilliantly, written article. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and have forwarded it onto a few friends whom I know will enjoy reading it as much as I did. I must admit I did have to google the meaning of a few words but the article really made me think and I concur with your sentiments.
I really don't understand why some people are getting their knickers in a twist regarding the Chinese matter contained within your article. You make valid points that are obviously well researched.
Well done Rahul!
Suzi

[Rahul]

Thanks, readers for your comments. I will try and respond to some of them. About the questions concerning my knowledge of China (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120049-The-Asian-Capitulation&p=1530836&viewfull=1#post1530836), the answer is that my article has to do with Asia, not one or two or three large countries of Asia. As a citizen of one of those countries, I have found it odd that Asian governments look to the west for validation. Yes I do have some knowledge of China directly.

About conformity in Asia (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120049-The-Asian-Capitulation&p=1530873&viewfull=1#post1530873) with the example from Japan, I think there are any number of such examples that readers could narrate from their own experiences and based on what they have read or seen on film. I agree that in general, social conformity in Asia is more overt than in the West, but add th proviso that Eastern views of Western conformity are probably under-represented in most fora.

About the matter of turmoil in China (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120049-The-Asian-Capitulation&p=1530934&viewfull=1#post1530934) and the links to several posts and videos, from what we can make out this is undoubtedly taking place. Whether it could lead to another Tiananmen reaction (let us fervently hope not) or go beyond what took place in 1989, the more experienced China hands in Project Avalon may weigh in.

About the kinds of democracy (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120049-The-Asian-Capitulation&p=1530985&viewfull=1#post1530985) in Asia and west, and India's experiment with it, I would say, based on direct experience working on government programmes, that in fact India's agriculture is for the much greater part, controlled by the global agritech transnationals. The counter, organic movement has in real terms made little impact, although it is quite visible and audible.

[onawah]

The CCP's efforts to Cancel Culture in China is without precedent, though we have been seeing the same practice to a lesser extent in other countries.
The most important lesson we need to take away from this imho, is that the NWO and the WEF (and most recently Biden himself--or whoever is pretending to be Biden currently), have expressly said they hold this model from the CCP as one they consider to be admirable, and one they plan to impose worldwide.
So this revolt by the Chinese people is ultimately not just for the benefit of China, but for everyone else in the world who would suffer the same fate if that draconian agenda is allowed to continue.
So prayers for the success of the Chinese people are certainly in order.
They have a massive struggle ahead, and one that will likely be much more difficult due to the fact that they have let the CCP have their own way for so very long.



A Responsibility to Use Our Freedoms on Behalf of Those Who Are Denied Them': Benedict Rogers
China in Focus - NTD
702K subscribers
16,428 views Premiered 21 hours ago

"In this special episode, we sat down with Benedict Rogers, co-founder and chief executive of Hong Kong Watch and author of "The China Nexus." He sheds light on the protests happening across China, the human rights abuses in the country, and how the Chinese regime’s influence has spread into free countries too.

Rogers said: "The protests are extremely significant. I think they're the most significant protests that we have seen in China since the Tiananmen Square massacre of 1989. There have, of course, been other protests in the intervening years, but mostly, the protests until now have been focused on a specific issue and a lot of them had been focused on labor rights. This is the first time in many years that we have seen such widespread, large-scale protests across so many cities where ... people are not shouting 'end the zero-COVID policy' or 'end the COVID lockdowns,' even though those were the things that sparked the protests, but they are chanting 'Xi Jinping, step down,' 'CCP, step down,' and 'we want freedom and democracy.' And I think that's hugely significant because it tells us that, contrary to what the CCP would like us to believe, the people of China have not actually been indoctrinated by the CCP."

Rogers also noted that the Chinese regime's influence isn't only within the country's own borders, but rather, "the influence is really extensive and pervasive across many sectors. So we see it in the higher education sector in universities, the use of Confucius Institutes as propaganda outlets for the CCP, the intimidation of Hong Kong or Uyghur or Tibetan students in our university campuses, the weaponization of funding to influence universities. We see it in Wall Street, in Hollywood, in politics."

"It's pretty extensive. And I think all our countries in the free world need to wake up to it," he added.

Rogers reminds us of the price of being free, saying: "I feel that those of us who have freedom have a responsibility not to take it for granted, but actually to cherish it, to protect it, and to use our freedoms on behalf of those who are denied them." "

GPKm3kiNZCk

[shaberon]

Generalisation is also risky but in the Far East in general there is little to compare with the democratic ideas born in Ancient Greece , or much philosophy regarding innate rights and freedoms possessed by the individual .


Greek civilization was born in India (https://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/republics-kingdoms-towns-and-cities-in-ancient-india-naw035/):

The work traces the pattern and functioning of republican governments at the time of the Buddha (sixth and fifth centuries BC) Panini (fifth century BC), Kautilya (fourth century BC), Alexander (327-325 BC), the Mauryas (321-184 BC) the Mauryas (184-72 BC) the Sungas (184-72BC) and the Guptas later.


No shortage of evidence that Greeks were educated there. The language and mythos are Sanskrit cognates. Thoroughly. I would be surprised if they came up with anything on their own, until Aristotle betrayed Plato.

Similarly, the city of Rome betrayed and destroyed the Golden Age of Latin culture.

The superb Indian educational system was devoured by European colonialism starting with the Portuguese Vasco da Gama. Then thanks to the British, it became dysfunctional and stagnant, while being commanded to flood China with opium.

[onawah]

That other thread about China and the debate about which nation is the most evil has suddenly disapeared with no notice from Bill or the Mods. What's up with that?

[Sue (Ayt)]

That other thread about China and the debate about which nation is the most evil has suddenly disapeared with no notice from Bill or the Mods. What's up with that?

It's still Here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120073) Onawah. (unless you were talking about another thread)
(Bill did eat a little crow about that one, though.)
;)





From Bill:

My bad, and yes, it had disappeared — but it was a genuine accident. I'd moved it to the mods' Reported Posts section quite without realizing.

Clearly someone should send me on a long walk and take my computer away from me for at least 24 hours. :P:)

:grouphug:

[onawah]

No, that was the thread I was referring to. But when I go to my Profile page and click on "My posts" only my posts from yesterday appear, and none of the ones from that thread.
What's up with that?


That other thread about China and the debate about which nation is the most evil has suddenly disapeared with no notice from Bill or the Mods. What's up with that?

It's still Here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120073) Onawah. (unless you were talking about another thread)
(Bill did eat a little crow about that one, though.)
;)





From Bill:

My bad, and yes, it had disappeared — but it was a genuine accident. I'd moved it to the mods' Reported Posts section quite without realizing.

Clearly someone should send me on a long walk and take my computer away from me for at least 24 hours. :P:)

:grouphug:

[Bill Ryan]

No, that was the thread I was referring to. But when I go to my Profile page and click on "My posts" only my posts from yesterday appear, and none of the ones from that thread.
What's up with that?I see them all now.... is it all fixed?
(If the thread had disappeared by accident, your posts there would have been inaccessible to the search)

[onawah]

Nope--this is the first one that comes up:
Yesterday 23:17
Thread: Are you an INFJ? Do you know one?
by onawahReplies
39
Views
3,453
Re: Are you an INFJ? Do you know one?
WHY PEOPLE ARE SO SHOCKED WHEN THEY SEE THE INFJ SUCCEEDING
Wenzes - INFJ LIFE COACH
57.9K subscribers
12,072 views
Apr 27, 2022

(This expert on INFJ just keeps on informing me about what...

No, that was the thread I was referring to. But when I go to my Profile page and click on "My posts" only my posts from yesterday appear, and none of the ones from that thread.
What's up with that?I see them all now.... is it all fixed?
(If the thread had disappeared by accident, your posts there would have been inaccessible to the search)

[onawah]

issue resolved :focus:

[Michel Leclerc]

Generalisation is also risky but in the Far East in general there is little to compare with the democratic ideas born in Ancient Greece , or much philosophy regarding innate rights and freedoms possessed by the individual .


Greek civilization was born in India (https://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/republics-kingdoms-towns-and-cities-in-ancient-india-naw035/):

The work traces the pattern and functioning of republican governments at the time of the Buddha (sixth and fifth centuries BC) Panini (fifth century BC), Kautilya (fourth century BC), Alexander (327-325 BC), the Mauryas (321-184 BC) the Mauryas (184-72 BC) the Sungas (184-72BC) and the Guptas later.


No shortage of evidence that Greeks were educated there. The language and mythos are Sanskrit cognates. Thoroughly. I would be surprised if they came up with anything on their own, until Aristotle betrayed Plato.

Similarly, the city of Rome betrayed and destroyed the Golden Age of Latin culture.

The superb Indian educational system was devoured by European colonialism starting with the Portuguese Vasco da Gama. Then thanks to the British, it became dysfunctional and stagnant, while being commanded to flood China with opium.

Dear Shaberon, thank you but... this is “way off the mark”. As far as I know it has become fashionable now in certain Indian circles to claim that all Indo-European cultures are "out of India", coming up again with the linguistic nonsense that Sanskrit is the mother of all Indo-European tongues etc.

“The languages and myths are Sanskrit cognates.” What does that even mean?

The languages – I take it that you mean (pre-)Classical Greek and Vedic/Sanskrit – are indeed cognates in the etymological sense of “cognate”, i.e. “born together” – to an extent. They are not twins, but rather distant cousins. A classical, and actually inexpugnable, argument against Vedic/Sanskrit being the originator of the other old Indo-European languages (like classical Greek, old Armenian, Church Slavic, Proto-Germanic, Latin, Old Celtic etc.) is that tens of hundreds of Vedic/Sanskrit words can be shown to have evolved in a certain way from an older language (Proto-Indo-European), whereas the (roughly speaking) European languages derived from Proto-Indo-European have more or less kept the old forms, ut diversely, distributively, i.e. Latin kept for instance word A but not B or C, whereas Greek kept B but not A or C, and Celtic C but not A or B, whereas Vedic has A, B and C but all in a specifically evolved way.

To be more clear for the non-specialist reader here: you will be aware of the so-called centum/satem divide in Indo-European languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum_and_satem_languages) (the word meaning "hundred" in Latin and Old Persian respectively). The Latin CeNTuM (pronounce KeNTuM), de Greek heKAToN (as in hectolitre), the Germanic HuNDred show their similar origin: a Proto-Indo-European word which has been reconstructed as something like KMToM. Latin kept it almost intact (only transforming M into N), Greek transformed M into a vowel (A) and transformed the final M into N like Latin did with the first, and Germanic dropped the final M, softened the T into D, transformed the first M into N like Latin did, and typically transformed the “explosion“ sound K into a "friction" sound H (compare CaNine with HouNd, CaPtive with HaVe (German HaBen) etc.). What did the Satem languages (typically Sanskrit and its daughter languages, Old Persian and its daughter languages, and Slav(on)ic and its daughter languages) do? They transformed the initial K “explosion” sound of KMToM into a friction sound S(h). Apart from this major difference the A of SaTeM was the result of a transformation of the M like the A in Greek heKAtoN did, and the T and the M of KMToM were kept. (SaTeM is Old Persian, Sanskrit being closely similar has SHaTaka.)

In which way is this an argument? Well, in the overall majority of languages one notices that "friction" sounds (like S in Sanskrit and H in Germanic) may derive from "explosion" sounds (the K of KMToM) but not the other way around. K’s are transformed into H’s or S‘s, but H’s or S’s are extremely rarely transformed into K’s. This shows that Latin centum, Greek hekaton, nd Germanic hundred cannot have originated from satem. The form satem just shows that it was derived from Proto-Indo-European kmtom, which was more or less kept or transformed otherwise (Germanic H) by the centum languages.

Incidentally one can notice exactly the same evolution in what became later of the Latin CeNTuM pronounced KeNTuM. Italian (closest to Latin) transformed it into cento, which is pronounced like chento; Castilian Spanish transformed it into cien, pronounced thee-en (th as in thirst), which in many Latin American countries is pronounced see-en, and French transformed it into cent pronounced sah-n (the n being a nasalisation of the preceding sah). The three "friction" sounds CH, TH and S evolved from K (and did not precede it in time) exactly like Satem evolved from K of KMToM and did not precede it.

This is a simple demonstration. The "Out of India" linguists need to establish highly contorted "historical linguistic" rules in order to explain the phenomena.

Important to understand is that this only tells us that Proto-Indo-European had a consonant system (and a vowel system, besides) of which Vedic and Sanskrit departed quite sharply – although the Proto-Indo-European origin of Vedic/Sanskrit (like the similar origin for Latin, Celtic etc.) is firmly established. Theoretically it could then be construed that Proto-Indo-European was spoken in India, and that all the other Indo-European cultures migrated from there. However, a close examination of the Proto-Indo-European vocabulary shows a probable origin around the Northern shores of the Black Sea (the old theory), and more probably (now that we know about the Dardanelles catastrophe and the transformation of the quite smaller Black “Lake” into the three times larger present Black Sea in the 6th millenium BCA) around all shores of the Black Lake – there the Indo-Europeans most probably lived as a seafaring civilisation, which by its very lakeshore-dwelling nature explains the close kinship of all then Proto-Indo-European dialects now languages.

As for the myths – please try and read and/or consult the work of the famous French Indo-Europeanist Georges Dumézil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Dumézil). It is abundantly clear that the mythologies of the Vedic/Sanskrit, Persian, Armenian, Greek, Albanian, Baltic, Slavonic, Latin, Germanic and Celtic civilisations are related but that does not point to a supposed common Indian origin but again to the existence of an Indo-European civilisation.

Finally, in defense of the Greek world: you definitely underestimate the antiquity of Greek literature. The great epics Iliad and Odyssey (admittedly shorter than the Mahabharata and Ramayana) date back to the 7th century BCA at the latest which versions have been shown to have been written by a single hand (unity of style and language: Homer, of course) whereas similar versions for the Indian epics date back at least half a millennium later. The Greek literary miracle par excellence however is the existence of the great lyrical poets from the 6th century BCE onwards – to mention just one, the unequalled Pindar - and more so even the triad of tragedians Aeschylus (Aischulos), Sophocles and Euripides.

(By stating this, I do not wish to diminish in any way the great religious literature in the Old Indian world represented by the Vedic hymns. But these are hymns belonging to religious offices, they have a specifically liturgic nature (similar to Zarathustra’s Gathas). The Greek names are names of individuals with a highly individual tone and style, they could be our contemporaries. The Vedic hymns are more like “David”’s psalms, the Greek lyrical poets maybe like Jeremiah and Ezekiel. The Greek tragics found a lonely correspondent in the book of Job, which has convincingly been demonstrated to have been a play. Indian drama was probably contemporary with the Greeks, but was forgotten because of the emergence of later geniuses like Kalidasa (5th century of the common era).)

Greatness is everywhere. At least in the realm of the masterworks of the human spirit, we should not give in to the temptation of unipolarity and hegemony.

Moreover, Vedic/Sanskrit and Greek – and Latin, Chinese, Japanese, Hebrew, Arabic, Babylonian cultures (and quite a few more!) were written cultures.

But black Africa, American native peoples from North, Middle and South, Polynesia etc. all brought forth oral – quite probably (very) old but not written – epics and songs of the greatest value.

The one poem sung by one unique poet from one unique Amazonian tribe of just 100 people is a diamond.

[onawah]

For that matter, all our current languages probably originated in Atlantis, and before that, Lemuria...
A fact which, if considered fully, would logically put to rest any such arguments about where the original cradle of civilization was located.
Taken to the furthest extent, that would make the point entirely moot since there were likely civilizations even before Lemuria.
And the discussion could be enlarged to encompass the supposition that has been put forth by The Michael Teachings (which make a lot of sense), which is that nations go through many cycles, beginning with infancy and progressing to sophistication, and then beginning all over again.
See: https://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_ages_countries.html

[Michel Leclerc]

For that matter, all our current languages probably originated in Atlantis, and before that, Lemuria...
A fact which, if considered fully, would logically put to rest any such arguments about where the original cradle of civilization was located.
Taken to the furthest extent, that would make the point entirely moot since there were likely civilizations even before Lemuria.
And the discussion could be enlarged to encompass the supposition that has been put forth by The Michael Teachings (which make a lot of sense), which is that nations go through many cycles, beginning with infancy and progressing to sophistication, and then beginning all over again.
See: https://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_ages_countries.html

I agree with you philosophically Onawah. A point of interest is however that the Atlantis and the Lemuria origins are scientifically studied – although "Atlantis” and "Lemuria” are not necessarily the names used by linguistics to call these originator languages by.

In another post, I think, I wrote about the Nostratic hypothesis – which has strong evidence supporting it. Statistical analysis of the vocabularies of the following language "macro-families":
– the Indo-European macro family (Celtic, Germanic, Baltic, Slavonic, Latin, Albanian, Greek, Armenian, Iranian, Northern Indian, ...)
- the Hamitic (Berber, Pharaonic Egyptian, ...) and Semitic (Hebrew, Arabic, the Ethiopian languages, Aramaean, Babylonian/Assyrian, ...) twin macrofamily,
- the Dravidian languages (South India: Telugu, Malayalam, Tamil, Kanada),
- the Uralic languages (Sami (Lappish), Finnish, Hungarian),
– the Altaic languages (the Turkic ones with Turkish, Azeri etc., Mongolian, Korean, Japanese)
– Georgian from the Kaukasian languages
who are known to be kindred (!), show that a possible closeness (similar to the one of the Indo-European languages around the Black "Lake") date back to the 10,000 or 11,000 BCE timespan. This means that they were probably separated by the ±12,000 year old Flood Graham Hancock has been speaking about. And that in itself more or less justifies calling the Nostratic group "Atlantean".

More hypothetical (but not without evidence!) is the idea that the Nostratic group was once unified with the Sino-Tibetan group as well as with the Austric group which more or less covers the languages of South East Asia and the Polynesian group.

A matter of a lot of debate is the relatedness of this latter “hypermega” (or “Meta-Nostratic”) (my label in this post) group with the various language families of Subsaharan Africa and Native America. Individual families are suggested to be akin but the study of these links is often the work of relatively isolated researchers and therefore remain quite speculative. But this field is really the one where the “Lemurian” hypothesis may play a role, because such widespread relatedness presupposes a worldwide civilisation.

Yet, linguistic speculations should also tread with caution, as linguists often tend to overlook the impact of natural catastrophes upon language evolution. The "Black Lake" hypothesis for Indo-European is still a matter of debate – in part because the scale of the catastrophic event is not readily understood by language specialists. Over such time stretches interdisciplinary research is essential. It has been shown for the cooperation of geologists and archeologists, but is equally true for linguists: they can be helped by their colleagues from other fields of research, and they can help them with their own contribution.

[Rahul]

Thank you Michel for your replies. It struck me, while reading through your first reply, that I either know or know of several Indologists and cultural specialists from the region of Belgium and Holland. They too are well versed in languages and linguistics. There is one gentleman I knew some years ago who was the head of a Unesco convention, from the region, and a linguist. What is it I wonder that makes it so?

But as for your main point about Greek versus Indic (that was Shaberon's post, although the 'vs' wasn't the subject), I do have a couple of responses.

First about "As far as I know it has become fashionable now in certain Indian circles to claim that all Indo-European cultures are 'out of India' ". Yes it has. I would say it is not fashionable, it is the equivalent of political correctness in those circles. What are those circles? They are generally understood to be, in India as much as in the West, as the supporters of the current ruling political party that has styled itself as representing Hindu India. What I'd like to clarify is that these circles, are supporters of a political order (whose origin and rise to power has much to do with the original subject of my post, Asian capitulation). This is not a genuinely apolitical Hindu view, quite simply because the need to dwell on differences and historical or cultural precedence does not arise for such a Hindu.

Second about the fount of languages being Sanskrit and this being the position of the 'out of India' adherents. It might help Project Avalon readers to very briefly learn here that this has directly to do with two competing theories, these being what is called the Aryan invasion theory and the other being the out of India theory. These posit, respectively, that the very ancient Vedic philosophy and culture was brought into the Indic territory by those from outside it, and its counterblast which is that Vedic organisation, language, religion and social structure spread to nearer Asia (from the Indic territory) and then farther away, which the locus being north-central India.

As to the second point, I think it is untenable to claim any founding provenance for any ancient language and cultural medium. My reason for saying so is that from the time of the European (followed by American) interest in the Orient, and the first generation of Indologists, the basis of their work has been surviving texts, commentaries on those texts, and then translations and interpretations. However, Asian cultures and social systems in early antiquity (and before then) were actively and primarily oral, relying on metre and memory for transmission fidelity.