Pardon me, but - - - Ukraine isn't NAZI

[ozmirage]

https://jewishunpacked.com/can-ukraine-have-a-nazi-problem-with-a-jewish-president/
Russian media has repeatedly sought to portray Ukraine as being aligned with Nazism. A claim that the rest of the world categorically rejects.

“The Ukraine on your news and Ukraine in real life are two completely different countries — and the main difference between them is: Ours is real. You are told we are Nazis. But could a people who lost more than 8 million lives in the battle against Nazism support Nazism?” Zelensky asked, addressing the charges directly in Russian.

On May 2nd, in an interview on the Ukrainian president, the Russian Foreign Minister said: “Zelensky is a Jew? Hitler also had Jewish origins. The greatest antisemites are precisely the Jews.”
Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, went on to say that “the fact that [Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky] is a Jew does not negate the Nazi elements in his country.”
“I believe that Adolf Hitler also had Jewish blood,” Lavrov added.
- - - - -
IMHO, denigrating Jews as NAZIs is -ahem- not logical.
If you wish to believe anti-semitic nonsense as "good intelligence" that's your prerogative.
I will bow to the wisdom of the forum, and cease posting on this topic.

[Franny]

Where were you when Ukraine Nazis and Neo-Nazis were bombing in eastern Ukraine fourteen years before Russia moved in to, in their words, de-Nazify and de-militarize Ukraine? The killing, in violation of their agreement, was responsible for over 14,000 deaths. Where were you when Putin offered many times to meet for peace talks and the US instructed Zelenski to refuse as it's a proxy war by the US against Russia? Where were you looking when NATO planted over 60 missile sites around Russia over the decades while telling them they would go no further, but continued to advance? One missile site in Cuba in the 1950s and the US had a meltdown, Russia seems to be made of sterner stuff, they waited and hoped the US would come to its senses, then moved when it crossed one of those famous redlines.

This is not even the tip of the Ukraine Nazi iceberg, merely the slick of water on the top. Nazis have been Ukraine since the 1930 and are well established. We have several threads where you can read the history, such as this one, Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115334-Ukraine-is-a-Nazi-state-don-t-fall-for-the-lie) Posted, no less, by one who was there.

[norman]

NAZI, is a deep rabbit hole in itself.

Is it really a German acronym for a 'socialist workers party' or is it an inside joke among the AshkeNAZI Khazarians who once occupied the land that's now currently identifying itself as Ukraine ?


https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eJIh2A29gcM/VAW-Id7699I/AAAAAAAAAfY/YKByyfukf94/s1600/tamga.png


It all depends how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go.

[Isserley]

Often, during the war, some nasty things happen that would not have happened otherwise or that were not considered important until then.
During the war in Croatia in the 1990s, the so-called Ustaše extremists appeared out of nowhere (stronger than ever) who ideologically identified themselves as far right with nazi ideology.
I believe that a special type of people always find themselves in such ideologies and just wait and wait for war to break out so they can do **** - they love violence and revenge for stuf that happened 200 years ago.

Although the atmosphere in Croatia is definitely not Nazi-like, we all know that such groups (https://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/13/football/nazi-swastika-croatia-football/index.html) exist.
Usualy they are marginalised and their actions are always condemned by the media and authorities. These are mostly kids whose parents had to emigrate to Canada, Australia.. in the 70s under the pressure of communism and they have no realistic picture of history or the present, but live their aggressive ideology somewhere far from Croatia and of course -> they are "bigger Croats than us here" (If war happened again, I'm sure they would be the first on the defense line) :rolleyes:

To return to Ukraine - I am not sure if there is a similar case there and whether their Nazis are marginalised the same way or the part of the ruling structure?
It is hard to be sure because they are in the middle of the war and war brings out the worst in people.
I find it problematic that the ruling structures do not condemn Azov and have incorporated them into the official army... perhaps due to the lack of men willing to fight?
Anyway the statement that Ukraine is a Nazi state is too strong for me due to above.

[Spiral]

You have got to be joking or brain dead , seriously, this has been going on since 2014

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/RealAlexRubi/status/1499861658646241281

1499861658646241281


https://twitter.com/ashermoses/status/1602915395148845057

1602915395148845057

By Lev Golinkin January 27, 2021

This list is part of an ongoing investigative project the Forward first published in January 2021 documenting hundreds of monuments around the world to people involved in the Holocaust. We are continuing to update each country’s list; if you know of any not included here, or of statues that have been removed or streets renamed, please email editorial@forward.com, subject line: Nazi monument project.

Note: In the years since the Maidan uprising brought a new government to Ukraine in 2014, numerous monuments to Nazi collaborators and Holocaust perpetrators have been erected, at times as frequently as a new one each week.


L’viv and Ivano-Frankivsk — 1.5 million Jews, a quarter of all Jews murdered in the Holocaust, came from Ukraine. Over the past six years, the country has been institutionalizing worship of the paramilitary Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, which collaborated with the Nazis and aided in the slaughter of Jews, and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), which massacred thousands of Jews and 70,000-100,000 Poles. A major figure venerated in today’s Ukraine is Stepan Bandera (1909–1959), the Nazi collaborator who led a faction of OUN (called OUN-B); above are his statues in L’viv (left) and Ivano-Frankivsk (right). Many thanks to Per Anders Rudling, Tarik Cyril Amar and Jared McBride for their guidance on Ukrainian collaborators.

The rest is here,

https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-ukraine/

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/AniaKoniec/status/1604156298953621504

1604156298953621504

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/AniaKoniec/status/1603909764978601984

1603909764978601984


https://twitter.com/AniaKoniec/status/1603913279692308480

1603913279692308480

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/TullipsMona/status/1604201913720905729

1604201913720905729

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/RothLindberg/status/1603749532646481920

1603749532646481920

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukrainian-nationalist-camp-training-kids-to-kill/

Inside a Ukrainian nationalist camp training kids to kill
November 12, 2018 / 4:20 PM

KIEV, Ukraine -- The campers, some clad in combat fatigues, carefully aim their assault rifles. Their instructor offers advice: Don't think of your target as a human being.

So when these boys and girls shoot, they will shoot to kill.

Most are in their teens, but some are as young as 8 years old. They are at a summer camp created by one of Ukraine's radical nationalist groups, hidden in a forest in the west of the country, that was visited by The Associated Press. The camp has two purposes: to train children to defend their country from Russians and their sympathizers - and to spread nationalist ideology.

"We never aim guns at people," instructor Yuri "Chornota" Cherkashin tells them. "But we don't count separatists, little green men, occupiers from Moscow, as people. So we can and should aim at them."

The nationalists have been accused of violence and racism, but they have played a central, volunteer role in Ukraine's conflict with Russia - and they have maintained links with the government. Earlier this year, the Ministry of Youth and Sports earmarked 4 million hryvnias (about $150,000) to fund some of the youth camps among the dozens built by the nationalists. The purpose, according to the ministry, is "national patriotic education."

Ministry spokeswoman Natalia Vernigora said the money is distributed by a panel which looks for "signs of xenophobia and discrimination, it doesn't analyze activities of specific groups."

In this July 28, 2018 photo, a young participant of the "Temper of will" summer camp, organized by the nationalist Svoboda party, grabs his AK-47 during a tactical exercise in a village near Ternopil, Ukraine. "We never aim guns at people," instructor Yuri "Chornota" Cherkashin tells campers. "But we don't count separatists, little green men, occupiers from Moscow as people, so we can and should aim at them." Felipe Dana / AP
Cherkashin is a veteran of the fight against pro-Russia separatists in eastern Ukraine; he was wounded in combat and later came to lead Sokil, or Falcon, the youth wing of the Svoboda party. It is important, he says, to inculcate the nation's youth with nationalist thought, so they can battle Vladimir Putin's Russia as well as "challenges that could completely destroy" European civilization.

Among those challenges: LGBT rights, which lecturers denounce as a sign of Western decadence.

"You need to be aware of all that," said instructor Ruslan Andreiko. "All those gender things, all those perversions of modern Bolsheviks who have come to power in Europe and now try to make all those LGBT things like gay pride parades part of the education system."

While some youths dozed off during lectures, others paid attention. Clearly, some were receptive.

During a break in training, a teenager played a nationalist march on his guitar. It was decorated with a sticker showing white bombs hitting a mosque, under the motto, "White Europe is Our Goal."

Aside from the lectures - and songs around the campfire - life for the several dozen youths at the Svoboda camp was hard.

Campers were awakened in the middle of the night with a blast from a stun grenade. Stumbling out of their tents, soldiers in training struggled to hold AK-47s that were, in some cases, almost as tall as they were. They were required to carry the heavy rifles all day, and one of the girls broke down in tears from exhaustion.

At 18, Mykhailo was the oldest of the campers. The training, he said, was necessary.

"Every moment things can go wrong in our country. And one has to be ready for it," he said. "That's why I came to this camp. To study how to protect myself and my loved ones"

[RatRodRob...RRR]

Where were you when Ukraine Nazis and Neo-Nazis were bombing in eastern Ukraine fourteen years before Russia moved in to, in their words, de-Nazify and de-militarize Ukraine? The killing, in violation of their agreement, was responsible for over 14,000 deaths. Where were you when Putin offered many times to meet for peace talks and the US instructed Zelenski to refuse as it's a proxy war by the US against Russia? Where were you looking when NATO planted over 60 missile sites around Russia over the decades while telling them they would go no further, but continued to advance? One missile site in Cuba in the 1950s and the US had a meltdown, Russia seems to be made of sterner stuff, they waited and hoped the US would come to its senses, then moved when it crossed one of those famous redlines.

This is not even the tip of the Ukraine Nazi iceberg, merely the slick of water on the top. Nazis have been Ukraine since the 1930 and are well established. We have several threads where you can read the history, such as this one, Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115334-Ukraine-is-a-Nazi-state-don-t-fall-for-the-lie) Posted, no less, by one who was there.

And remembering before this "war" that Ukraine Elites and Those high in Gov were/are the worst child molesters/traffickers in the world, Putin knows this.

[s7e6e]

There was an exodus of nazi extremists and high ranking officials from Germany after the end of ww2. Some went to North America, even more went to South America. Most went to Ukraine. 3rd generations by now, ruling the country.

[DNA]

There was an exodus of nazi extremists and high ranking officials from Germany after the end of ww2. Some went to North America, even more went to South America. Most went to Ukraine. 3rd generations by now, ruling the country.

I'm a less is better kind of guy. This was my favorite reply. Along with Franny the moderator. Great stuff.

[Mashika]

[
IMHO, denigrating Jews as NAZIs is -ahem- not logical.
If you wish to believe anti-semitic nonsense as "good intelligence" that's your prerogative.
I will bow to the wisdom of the forum, and cease posting on this topic.

Elensky is a Jew by somehow being born or having a family who used to be Jews

That doesn't mean anything. stop trying to use that as an argument or talking point. It just tells us that you are ignorant of the reality of this world

There were Jews working under the German government who killed and organized the massive destruction of their entire race and religion. Go read a real history book for once

This kind of stupid argument that Elensky comes from a Jew family therefore there can't be a situation that Ukraine is a Nazi state is brain dead

And your derailment of threads with very little smarts or any kind of understanding of what happened or why or when, and your obvious 'I live in a bubble' position in which you show that you clearly have not looked at anything beyond what your compromised media tells you to think is unbearable. Stop embarrassing yourself.

You don't understand that you don't understand



I will bow to the wisdom of the forum, and cease posting on this topic.

No one said you couldn't, but you should go read and learn, then come back once an 'honest' research attempt has been made

Start by understanding that the 14,000+ people who died in Donbass between 2013 and 2021 were Ukrainian citizens, and that they were killed by the Ukrainian illegal government imposed through a coup orchestrated by the US government in the first place. And that it's already well documented by exactly who did it and how and their names, and how they can be traced back to Nazi officials in WW2, and there are recordings of their calls to choose who will take and control Ukraine's "Democratic government"

The US put them in place. IT is an illegal goberment

I'm giving you a bone since you clearly came to post this to cause this kind of reply. You wanted agitation, to cause a response, division is the tool of the lower serfs, and hate and so on, all that derives from it.

Your strategy is poor and lame. I'm sorry but it is.

Next time, as a "sleeper", please try to be more natural, you went directly for the hate and kill, but you have no arms or direction, or are capable of articulating in any way any kind of smartness about the entire thing

[Mashika]

And also, you follow a very well defined pattern in your writing, other people before you have done the same

It's almost like it was imprinted into you and you just reacted to something or "got triggered" by it. How odd

Sentence by sentence, you mimic other people before you, in ideas and approaches and that not very invisible hate you carry in your words

You should think about that

[Mashika]

And excuse for being this direct, but no, you are not pardoned. As an adult, you must take responsibility for your dumbness, all that time you had to grow up and you end up not doing it?

But i want you to understand that the kind of stupidity that leads to this kind of thread is the kind of stupidity that has allowed for the rape, killing and mass plain murder of thousands of people across the years

There is plenty of proof that you clearly have ignored, either on purpose (which makes you an accomplish) or plain ignorance, which says you are not well educated enough to go read all about what's going on.

Either way you are just messing up your own person by your own hands. Deal with it

Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah

See? I can also fill posts with none sense, just like you. In that way, we are very much equal :P

[Mashika]

Here's a small but fun anecdote for you:

There once was this guy born, he was named 'Pepe'

Pepe was always a fool, he constantly made dumb mistakes, like trying to put a knife in the electric wall socket, or give the dog Clorox or running to the street and almost getting hit by cars because regardless of how many times he was told to not do and why, he would still run with his tongue out like a dog in a car enjoying the wind on a nice car ride

After years, their family got tired of he constantly messing up and they sent him to a 'special kids' school. He told them "one day you'll see i'll be way more than you thought i could ever be, i'll show you how smart i am!"

15 years later, He was finally and adult, and he got a job at the best hospital in town

Once day, his father became ill, and he was placed on a hospital bed in the best room they had, since he had a lot of money and connections

He got worse and nothing could save him, until one day the fine young doctor who had just recently been hired came and figured out the problem

The doctor said "No worry sir, i will get you better in no time!"
Father said: "Oh God thank you so much young man, you remind me of my son, he would be just the same age as you right now, i wonder why he didn't come to see me"
Doctor said: No, don't worry sr, he's always very close to you, i assure you that

Then a sudden burst happened and the machine keeping the father alive went off, he fast went a critical comma and emergency team had to come to try and save his life

Upon reviewing what happened, they noticed Pepe had taken out the plug from the wall to connect the Vacuum Cleaner! He had just started working at the hospital a couple weeks before, he was a fool still

Stupid Pepe

P.S: This post and anecdote has as little relevance as your entire thread does, regarding the reality of the situation or core issue in Ukraine, deal with it

Relevance is none, you posted this out of butt hurting, it does *nothing* either way

This was a 'reductive' thread. Figure that out on your own

[Ewan]

I don't know if you are still reading these responses ozmirage but that was a quite stunning opening to lead with.

I know were I to have done such a thing I would be devastated by the uniformity of reponses and certainly pause for thought. Next I would go digging and research a few topics that I might find extremely uncomfortable if I clung too hard to that which I believed to be true.

That is the thing about beliefs. What we believe is true for us. Unfortunatly all too often, as I discovered, what we believe can turn out to be utter nonsense. That can be a painful, disorientating experience, one that can take some time to process and adjust to. It was nearly 20 years ago now I went throught that very situation myself.

We all have blind spots, some will persist till death and we never learn. Many people who believe themselves awoken, (not woke), can still have these blind spots about certain subjects/beliefs despite their broadening perspectives elsewhere.

I wish you a great deal of luck in processing what you may uncover if you start to look. Introspection is your friend but it can also be a fairly uncomfortable bedfellow.

[Jamie]

OK... so the United Nations keep trying to pass a UN Resolution banning the glorification of Nazism.
From the UN website about the Resolution... "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance".

The resolution keeps failing.
The USA being one of the main countries repeatedly voting against it (them having a veto vote which cancels it out... is that true Democracy?... Really?).

The last vote for this was last year on the 16th of December 2021.
130 Countries voted for the Resolution (to ban the idolization of Nazism) ... yet just 2 Countries on this entire planet voted AGAINST banning the love of Nazism.
Those two Countries were the USA... and the second Country... the only Country in all of Europe... was Ukraine! (130:2 ... but at the UN those two win the vote. Ridiculous).
Why??
Someone answer that with truth...Why does Ukraine vote against banning Nazism?

Well if anyone has seen the news these past 8 years.. it'll be because of Western Ukraine's love of Nazi militias, doing the Nazi salute as a citizen of 'Western' Ukraine for those fun parades they have, and in the last 3 weeks weren't a few US News agencies banned from Ukraine for daring to accidentally capture Western Ukrainian citizens doing Nazi salutes!

[JackMcThorn]

OK... so the United Nations keep trying to pass a UN Resolution banning the glorification of Nazism.
From the UN website about the Resolution... "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance".

The resolution keeps failing.
The USA being one of the main countries repeatedly voting against it (them having a veto vote which cancels it out... is that true Democracy?... Really?).

The last vote for this was last year on the 16th of December 2021.
130 Countries voted for the Resolution (to ban the idolization of Nazism) ... yet just 2 Countries on this entire planet voted AGAINST banning the love of Nazism.
Those two Countries were the USA... and the second Country... the only Country in all of Europe... was Ukraine! (130:2 ... but at the UN those two win the vote. Ridiculous).
Why??
Someone answer that with truth...Why does Ukraine vote against banning Nazism?

Well if anyone has seen the news these past 8 years.. it'll be because of Western Ukraine's love of Nazi militias, doing the Nazi salute as a citizen of 'Western' Ukraine for those fun parades they have, and in the last 3 weeks weren't a few US News agencies banned from Ukraine for daring to accidentally capture Western Ukrainian citizens doing Nazi salutes!

The UN Security Council is a separate entity from the UN General Assembly. So the veto is only used on certain criteria in the Security Council consisting of 5 permanent members with this veto power, all of which are nations armed with nuclear weapons. The veto is intended as a safety, but it is highly criticised as an undemocratic aspect.

The U.S. should vote in a consistent manner with its constitution and in this case it does do that [surprisingly]. Ukraine voting against it, on the other hand, seems a bit darker and peculiar.

I am more interested in the 51 abstaining votes. The abstain feature in a vote is intended to be rarely used as it could be seen as impartial; or better yet: careless. Lacking care and lacking responsibility. Almost all of Europe abstained and I forget whom else. One of the articles I read stated it was more 3rd world and 2nd world countries that voted in favour of this measure.

The thing about ideas is some of them will make your blood boil. An american is supposed to take those ideas with a grain of salt and if he/she has their own idea, be able to present it as a matter of fact, even if it makes someone else's blood boil. This looks good on paper, but looks awful in person and many people do not have the EQ to handle this responsibility. When they say legislation making laws is akin to making sausage, freedom of speech is just as ugly, in my opinion.

This measure did pass, 13o countries in favour, 2 against, and 51 abstentions.

[Bill Ryan]

A brief mods' note. Tintin was right to block ozmirage (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?29265-ozmirage) from Masha's Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115334-Ukraine-is-a-Nazi-state-don-t-fall-for-the-lie/page2) thread. She knows about this from the hardest personal experience, as I think many members are fully aware.

ozmirage's post on that thread, which was close to being racist, was unacceptable and an insult to Masha's integrity. He fell for the lie, and didn't even ask any questions about it, certain that he was right and that everything else was somehow incorrect or based in ignorance.

(It's always wise to ask questions. But not always wise to make definitive statements that may be fatally flawed.)

For quite a while now, Masha's been doing her very best, in her own style, to educate us about some of the realities which many in the west might be fully unaware of. And it seems that a minority of forum members, who should know better, are still buying the propaganda rhetoric from CNN and Reuters 'fact-checkers'. Wake up!!

Avalon has a proud record of sharing, reporting and explaining documented facts, whether comfortable or not, for anyone who's prepared to read, watch and listen. We're not going to shrink from that.

The mods were discussing all this in real time. I suggested that we should leave this new thread to stand, confident that members themselves would be quick to reply to counter the silly statements made by ozmirage — a highly intelligent and well-educated man who up till now has always shown high principle, and who therefore is one of those who should have known better.

That's why the mods have been fairly silent on this thread — tempting though it was to offer a mountain of countering information. :) It's sometimes far better for us to let the community do its own 'policing', and we're very grateful to those who've stepped in here with their own responses.

:grouphug: :focus:

[Jamie]

OK... so the United Nations keep trying to pass a UN Resolution banning the glorification of Nazism.
From the UN website about the Resolution... "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance".

The resolution keeps failing.
The USA being one of the main countries repeatedly voting against it (them having a veto vote which cancels it out... is that true Democracy?... Really?).

The last vote for this was last year on the 16th of December 2021.
130 Countries voted for the Resolution (to ban the idolization of Nazism) ... yet just 2 Countries on this entire planet voted AGAINST banning the love of Nazism.
Those two Countries were the USA... and the second Country... the only Country in all of Europe... was Ukraine! (130:2 ... but at the UN those two win the vote. Ridiculous).
Why??
Someone answer that with truth...Why does Ukraine vote against banning Nazism?

Well if anyone has seen the news these past 8 years.. it'll be because of Western Ukraine's love of Nazi militias, doing the Nazi salute as a citizen of 'Western' Ukraine for those fun parades they have, and in the last 3 weeks weren't a few US News agencies banned from Ukraine for daring to accidentally capture Western Ukrainian citizens doing Nazi salutes!

The UN Security Council is a separate entity from the UN General Assembly. So the veto is only used on certain criteria in the Security Council consisting of 5 permanent members with this veto power, all of which are nations armed with nuclear weapons. The veto is intended as a safety, but it is highly criticised as an undemocratic aspect.

The U.S. should vote in a consistent manner with its constitution and in this case it does do that [surprisingly]. Ukraine voting against it, on the other hand, seems a bit darker and peculiar.

I am more interested in the 51 abstaining votes. The abstain feature in a vote is intended to be rarely used as it could be seen as impartial; or better yet: careless. Lacking care and lacking responsibility. Almost all of Europe abstained and I forget whom else. One of the articles I read stated it was more 3rd world and 2nd world countries that voted in favour of this measure.

The thing about ideas is some of them will make your blood boil. An american is supposed to take those ideas with a grain of salt and if he/she has their own idea, be able to present it as a matter of fact, even if it makes someone else's blood boil. This looks good on paper, but looks awful in person and many people do not have the EQ to handle this responsibility. When they say legislation making laws is akin to making sausage, freedom of speech is just as ugly, in my opinion.

This measure did pass, 13o countries in favour, 2 against, and 51 abstentions.

Thank you for the reply... and info I didn't know. :happythumbsup:
I also wondered about the 51 abstentions, but perhaps my suspicious nature thought they may be abstaining due to not wishing to upset America (due to the Hegemonic power the USA holds over many countries).

I will admit... the reasoning from the USA about why they won't vote for the UN resolution to ban Nazi symbolism is always with regards to not wanting to curtail free speech in its citizens. On the surface I agree with that... it even reminds me of how there was a Nazi group in the film 'The Blues Brothers' where the faction was run off a bridge by the Elwood Brothers :ROFL:(at that time I couldn't imagine us Brits letting such a group exist in the UK... yet the USA allowed the freedom of those individuals to exist).
Currently though... I just believe the USA were backing up their puppet country's wishes.

[DeDukshyn]

Countless articles on the topic of our government spending hundreds of millions of tax dollars to train neo-nazi militia groups in Ukraine. Here's one:

"Report reveals Canadian Forces trained neo-Nazi Ukrainian Battalions"
https://www.thesuburban.com/news/report-reveals-canadian-forces-trained-neo-nazi-ukrainian-battalions/article_73fc64c4-7d83-5aa1-9167-3a1028f16fdb.html




Previous to the post Russian invasion propaganda machine getting into full swing, nearly every single western mainstream media news articles on Ukraine were about the massive government corruption and the neo-nazi influence. Almost every, single, one.

One can easily verify this by using duck duck go, typing in "ukraine nazi" and set the date filter to pre-2021, and go through the results ... almost every news story after the Russian invasion immediately became pro-Ukraine, evidence of the propaganda machines stranglehold over western media.

Here's a few examples of pre-invasion news stories on Ukraine:

"Thousands march to honor Nazi collaborator in Kiev"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/thousands-march-to-honor-nazi-collaborator-in-kiev/

Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/

The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda/

Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

Are There Nazis in Ukraine? A Visit to Lviv
https://truthout.org/articles/are-there-nazis-in-ukraine-a-visit-to-lviv/

Ukraine And Its Nazi Collaborators
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-and-its-nazi-collaborators/

Ukraine’s Got a Real Problem with Far-Right Violence (And No, RT Didn’t Write This Headline)
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/

How Canada emerged as a haven for Ukrainian Nazi collaborators
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/07/29/cauk-j29.html

Ukraine Makes Birthday of Nazi Collaborator a National Holiday and Bans Book Critical of Anti-Semitic Leader
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-nazi-collaborator-birthday-holiday-anti-semitic-1272911

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUKKBN1GV2TY


That's just a small sample of what media reporting on Ukraine looked like before the Russian invasion ... how quickly that sentiment changed, wouldn't you say?

There is without a doubt a heavy neo-nazi influence in the Ukraine - its not really a question, it was pretty much common knowledge before the Russian invasion. Are we to believe it just suddenly vanished when Hunter Biden started laundering money through the country? Yeah, no.

[yelik]

The British Bavarian and European Royals (Deepstate) were Nazi minded well before Nazi Germany. This global network of satanic nazi royals, aristocrats and financiers are the ones that control all and invert all

[Open Minded Dude]

(Z)elensky being Jewish is not relevant at all imv because the Ukrainian 'Naziism' is all directed against the Russians. Just like the Nazis back then were, too calling them the Bolshevik threat and all that and then invading Russia. Nothing has changed in Ukraine Nazis regarding that mindset. It seems to me that Russians are regarded as 'subhumans' ('Untermenschen', just like the Jews were) for some Ukrainian Nazi fractions. At least that is what I remember to also have read in interviews with some of them (too lazy to seek links now).

[Tintin]

Countless articles on the topic of our government spending hundreds of millions of tax dollars to train neo-nazi militia groups in Ukraine. Here's one:

"Report reveals Canadian Forces trained neo-Nazi Ukrainian Battalions"
https://www.thesuburban.com/news/report-reveals-canadian-forces-trained-neo-nazi-ukrainian-battalions/article_73fc64c4-7d83-5aa1-9167-3a1028f16fdb.html




Previous to the post Russian invasion propaganda machine getting into full swing, nearly every single western mainstream media news articles on Ukraine were about the massive government corruption and the neo-nazi influence. Almost every, single, one.

One can easily verify this by using duck duck go, typing in "ukraine nazi" and set the date filter to pre-2021, and go through the results ... almost every news story after the Russian invasion immediately became pro-Ukraine, evidence of the propaganda machines stranglehold over western media.

Here's a few examples of pre-invasion news stories on Ukraine:

"Thousands march to honor Nazi collaborator in Kiev"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/thousands-march-to-honor-nazi-collaborator-in-kiev/

Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/

The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda/

Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

Are There Nazis in Ukraine? A Visit to Lviv
https://truthout.org/articles/are-there-nazis-in-ukraine-a-visit-to-lviv/

Ukraine And Its Nazi Collaborators
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-and-its-nazi-collaborators/

Ukraine’s Got a Real Problem with Far-Right Violence (And No, RT Didn’t Write This Headline)
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/

How Canada emerged as a haven for Ukrainian Nazi collaborators
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/07/29/cauk-j29.html

Ukraine Makes Birthday of Nazi Collaborator a National Holiday and Bans Book Critical of Anti-Semitic Leader
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-nazi-collaborator-birthday-holiday-anti-semitic-1272911

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUKKBN1GV2TY


That's just a small sample of what media reporting on Ukraine looked like before the Russian invasion ... how quickly that sentiment changed, wouldn't you say?

There is without a doubt a heavy neo-nazi influence in the Ukraine - its not really a question, it was pretty much common knowledge before the Russian invasion. Are we to believe it just suddenly vanished when Hunter Biden started laundering money through the country? Yeah, no.

An excellent compendium.

Please would you cross post this to Mashika's Ukraine Nazi thread?

:highfive:

[Tintin]

This Truthout (https://truthout.org/articles/are-there-nazis-in-ukraine-a-visit-to-lviv/) article that Dedukshyn shared above has over fifty references - 50!

I'd say that's as good a homework starting point for anyone in any kind of denial.

Where possible I'll ensure the library continues to put on record the reality of the Nazi problem and update it with any of the literature I can get my hands on that's referenced here.

----

[Extracts - article by Joshua Tartakovsky]


The UPA, whose flags are adopted by present-day Svoboda and Right Sector, adhered to a racist policy of “Ukraine for Ukrainians” (23) and sought to ethnically clean the area under their control.


How did Ukraine chose to commemorate and make sense of the atrocities that took place by the OUN and UPA? Historian Per A. Rudling in his article The OUN, the UPA and the Holocaust: A Study in the Manufacturing of Historical Myths, explains that in as early as 1943, the OUN engaged in historical revision and blamed the killings on Germans and Poles (46). The UPA went as far as to fabricate evidence after it was apparent that the Germans were losing the war (47). Indeed, by 1947, the UPA denied it was ever anti-Semitic or that it took part in actions against Jews (48). One OUN leader said that Ukrainians suffered from the actions of the Germans more than the Jews (49). However, OUN and UPA leaders were not executed by the Nazis, but eventually released (50), while Jews were subject to a different fate.


In Lviv, support for the UPA was obvious. Red and black flags were hanging in various stores and restuarants, even in a Jewish restaurant owned by a Ukrainian family. At the Lviv State University, a massive red and black poster adorned the buildings with nationalist slogans. I heard from a local friend that the university has many student activists who received student credit for taking part in demonstrations in Maidan and that they were now busy with student activism for the war. In fact, in April 2014, some in Lviv paid tribute to the 1st Galician Division that was part of the SS. In a march in honor of the division, participants begun their march at the Bandera monument and ended it at a memorial for Galician soldiers.


During my visit, I explored the Jewish quarter of the city. I saw the remains of an old synagogue, “The Golden Rose” while a “Jewish-themed” restaurant owned by a Ukrainian family was established next to it. Various pictures of Jewish life in the area are hung in the restaurant. Prices are not set at the restaurant, but one must “bargain” for them in the supposedly “Jewish” way. Small red-and-black flags of the same Ukrainian Insurgent Army whose people murdered the local Jewish community are placed on the bar, and a large charity box allows visitors to put in money for the Ukrainian soldiers fighting in the Donbass, many of whom share the Nazi ideology.


A OUN-UPA report from 1943 makes it clear that the UPA was not a freedom movement, but a genocidal organization that was inherently anti-Semitic and racist. A report stated that “[The Jews are] almost completely liquidated, in small groups or as individuals hide in the woods and wait for a change in the political situation. We ourselves liquidated in the Horyn region seven Jewish men and a Jewish woman. (33)” A pamphlet by UPA in August 1943 stated that “the eternal enemy of Ukraine, Moscow, sends for the destruction of the Ukrainian nation bands of Gypsies, Moscovites, Jews, and other rabble, the so-called ‘red partisants. (34)'” Mykhailo Smenchak, a Ukrainian nationalist who fought in the ranks of the UPA and OUN wrote when referring to the Jews that “we consider them agents of Muscovite imperialism, formerly tsarist but now proletarian. Still, we have to first beat the Muscovites and then the surviving Jews (35).”


While the murder of Jews by the UPA continued even after the Soviet occupation in 1945 (42), the Soviet authorities were ashamed by the large number of locals who collaborated with the Nazis and were interested in laying the blame mostly on Germany with the hope of receiving financial compensation for the immense damage and loss (43). For this reason, many of the perpetrators evaded justice. To make matters worse, some of the perpetrators were later supported by the United States. The Nachtigall Battalion, that was part of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists faction led by Bandera (OUN-B) engaged in atrocities against Jews in Vinnytsia (44) while some of its soldiers participated in the Lviv pogrom (45). The Battalion, was supported by the CIA after World War II and its members were parachuted into the area to fight against the Russians. A Ukrainian lobby which contained many former Nazis was well-established in the US with the support of various Republican administrations, according to Paul H. Rosenberg.

---------

...and there's plenty more.

See also: Canada and the Banderites by Thierry Meyssan (https://avalonlibrary.net/Ukraine/Nazi_groups_in_Ukraine/Stepan_Bandera/Canada%20and%20the%20Banderites%2C%20by%20Thierry%20Meyssan.pdf)

[Bill Ryan]

Perfectly timed for this thread, here's Brian Berletic (The New Atlas) with a very powerful video, only 12 minutes long but presenting a ton of documented references and a slam-dunk revealing new Ukrainian video, definitively giving the lie to any western propaganda that there are "no Nazis in Ukraine".

As Mashika wrote in her separate public thread, Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115334-Ukraine-is-a-Nazi-state-don-t-fall-for-the-lie/page2).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPR8C6VtxMY

[Mashika]

The people think that "Nazi" immediately means "German Nazi vs Jews" is laughable

So much lack of awareness of reality. But here's a bit to contemplate on for a while:

For Ukrainian Nazis, the modern version of Jews are eastern Ukrainians with Ethnic Russian backgrounds

German Nazis -> Jews
Ukrainian Nazis -> Ethnic Russians

Think fast, think smart

Do the math

[Michel Leclerc]

Perfectly timed for this thread, here's Brian Berletic (The New Atlas) with a very powerful video, only 12 minutes long but presenting a ton of documented references and a slam-dunk revealing new Ukrainian video, definitively giving the lie to any western propaganda that there are "no Nazis in Ukraine".

As Mashika wrote in her separate public thread, Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115334-Ukraine-is-a-Nazi-state-don-t-fall-for-the-lie/page2).

(...)



Excellent.

Yet we should not commit an obvious logical fallacy. From the fact that Nazi army units (and hence Nazi soldiers) are part of the Ukrainian army it does not follow that all army units of the Ukrainian army are Nazi army units, and a fortiori not that all soldiers of the Ukrainian army are Nazis.

Otherwise the sad stories about bad treatment by their officers that captured Ukrainian soldiers as prisoners of war tell Russian media would not exist.

[Ravenlocke]

(Google translation)


We regret to inform you about another such situation in recent days. The Ukrainian authorities in Ternopil honored the "executioner of Poles" Roman Shukhevych by erecting a monument to him. Ukraine should focus on financing defense against Russian aggression, not on commemorating the criminals.


https://twitter.com/WspolnotaPamiec/status/1608516303501021186

1608516303501021186

[Michel Leclerc]

Just to add something in a way completely unrelated to these terrible facts, and yet able to create perspective, and to throw the light of beauty and eternity on it:

one of the greatest writers of the XXth century, Bruno Schulz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Schulz), was born, lived and died in Drohobycz near Lviv. He was Jewish, and wrote in Polish.

Read the collection of his short stories.

[Mashika]

Perfectly timed for this thread, here's Brian Berletic (The New Atlas) with a very powerful video, only 12 minutes long but presenting a ton of documented references and a slam-dunk revealing new Ukrainian video, definitively giving the lie to any western propaganda that there are "no Nazis in Ukraine".

As Mashika wrote in her separate public thread, Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115334-Ukraine-is-a-Nazi-state-don-t-fall-for-the-lie/page2).

(...)



Excellent.

Yet we should not commit an obvious logical fallacy. From the fact that Nazi army units (and hence Nazi soldiers) are part of the Ukrainian army it does not follow that all army units of the Ukrainian army are Nazi army units, and a fortiori not that all soldiers of the Ukrainian army are Nazis.

Otherwise the sad stories about bad treatment by their officers that captured Ukrainian soldiers as prisoners of war tell Russian media would not exist.

The soldiers that are treated like that, mostly come from eastern Ukraine

Several months back, i had noted that it looked like most of the people getting drafted to the Ukrainian army and sent to the front were eastern Ukrainians, otherwise known as 'people from Donbass'. Very few people from western Ukraine were being forcibly drafted, and this lead to several people, not only me, to consider the following:

A background check is done for eastern Ukrainians, those who are found to be close to Russians or come from ethnic Russian families are selected and sent to the front

These is a way to 'cleanse' the country from ethnic Russians in a legal way, that's why they are sent with no training, no kit, no guns, no food and directly to the meat grinder and then abandoned there to die. The idea is for them to die, not to fight or survive, they just need to die because they are 'unnecessary' for the "One nation one people" ideal Ukraine

I had some links saved about this, like stats on where most of the people were being drafted that showed that very few people from Kiev or Lviv were drafted but as soon as they could they started drafting tons of people from Kherson, Odessa and other places in south Ukraine, where most of the ethnic Russians and Russian speaking population lives. Kherson is an example i remember well, not long after the Ukrainians got there, there was a draft and lots of people were taken, and around 2 weeks later lots of the soldiers surrendering at the front turned out to be people from Kherson. So how to explain that? Some random people gets drafted and two weeks later surrenders at the front? These are people who never got training, you can't train a soldier in 2 weeks, if that person has never before carried a gun, the explanation is simple, they were picked up, given a gun and a uniform, told to shoot a few rounds and then sent to the front with the goal of getting them killed and fill in the meat grinder, these are the kind of people the Ukrainian nazis consider 'subhuman' so they want them to die, and they also make money out of their deaths, two birds with the same stone

This is a conspiracy, but it had some facts to back it up, i'll try to find my links asap and update this post

[Michel Leclerc]

(...)

The soldiers that are treated like that, mostly come from eastern Ukraine

(...)



This possibility had occurred to me Mashika – in one of my (many) misanthropic moments.

That when we heard of Ukrainian soldiers being shot at the front by Ukrainian disciplinary units it was only the tip of the iceberg. Systematically Ukrainian soldiers were being sacrificed that way – I guessed – and if that was the case, then not only the most expendable of people would be murdered, but especially the most intentionally “murderable”: the mixed-bloods half Ukrainian half Russian (the Halbjuden --> the Halbrussen), and also the Viertelrussen etc.

The same Nazi techniques also: having the victims dig their own graves etc.

I wish you courage and determination to find the evidence – because this information should be spread.

As an aside: it also partially explains why the Russians seem reluctant to propagandise surrender.

[Mashika]

Can it be said, with a serious face, that Ukraine is not a Nazi state, when the government and education program produces books like this?

Reality_Theories/11041

[Mashika]

Everywhere you look....

1616436896275615746

Jesus.... honestly

[Bill Ryan]

Everywhere you look....

1616436896275615746

Jesus.... honestlyIt's easy to miss this, because the tweet is initially censored from view. Here's the image saved on the Avalon server:

https://projectavalon.net/Nazi_Ukraine.jpg

https://projectavalon.net/Nazi_Ukraine.jpg

[Tintin]

For guests and members interested in perusing the Avalon Library a lot of historical material concerning the serious issue of Nazi extremism in Ukraine can be found by visiting this directory:

Nazi groups in Ukraine (https://avalonlibrary.net/?dir=Ukraine/Nazi_groups_in_Ukraine)

[Mashika]

(...)

The soldiers that are treated like that, mostly come from eastern Ukraine

(...)



This possibility had occurred to me Mashika – in one of my (many) misanthropic moments.

That when we heard of Ukrainian soldiers being shot at the front by Ukrainian disciplinary units it was only the tip of the iceberg. Systematically Ukrainian soldiers were being sacrificed that way – I guessed – and if that was the case, then not only the most expendable of people would be murdered, but especially the most intentionally “murderable”: the mixed-bloods half Ukrainian half Russian (the Halbjuden --> the Halbrussen), and also the Viertelrussen etc.

The same Nazi techniques also: having the victims dig their own graves etc.

I wish you courage and determination to find the evidence – because this information should be spread.

As an aside: it also partially explains why the Russians seem reluctant to propagandise surrender.

Update on this, posted here before by Ravenlocke
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114491-WW3-Ukraine-US-vs.-Donbass-Russia&p=1539484&viewfull=1#post1539484

1616845831658684419

It does seem like people are starting to catch up on this. The first time i think i talked about it, and it came from a friend over there, was around mid March or April last year i think, can't remember well, but it didn't get much attention back then. Now other people have started to notice as well

There are very accurate comments on that twitter thread

- "They want to solve their Hungarian minorities problem. War is the cover for their ethnic cleansing. Vik needs to wake up."
- "A deliberate strategy to reduce the minorities."

My favorite is this one:
- "Genocide by conscription"

I think we may have actually found something of historical proportions here, or even just the tip of the iceberg at this time

[Bill Ryan]

Everywhere you look....
1616436896275615746
Jesus.... honestly:)

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/56367

DDGeopolitics/56367

[shaberon]

That actually does make the Ukrainian flag better looking.

In one photo it is with a type of Black Sun symbol I think.

Notice also the guy with spiderwebs on the elbows.

You know what, not only is it better looking, it is more honest. That is respectable. The Nazis (https://sputnikglobe.com/20230418/us-authorities-credit-suisse-maintained-nazi-linked-accounts-as-recently-as-2020-1109639621.html) came out again just a few days ago. It is unclear to me whether "subpoena" refers to U. S. offices:



WASHINGTON (Sputnik) - Credit Suisse appears to have maintained accounts for at least 99 German Nazi officials, some as recently as 2020, the US Senate Budget Committee said in a release on Tuesday, citing subpoenaed records.

The Budget Committee, headed by Republican Senator Charles Grassley, subpoenaed the records in February. The documents were originally part of an inquiry commissioned by Credit Suisse after the Jewish human rights group Simon Wiesenthal Center contacted the bank in 2020 with credible information about undisclosed Nazi-linked accounts.

One of the subpoenaed reports was written by Neil Barofsky, an attorney hired by the bank but later fired under questionable circumstances, the release said.

Among the information regarding undisclosed accounts discovered by Barofsky was the finding that Credit Suisse appears to have maintained previously undisclosed accounts for at least 99 individuals who were either senior German Nazi officials or members of Nazi-affiliated groups in Argentina, the release said.

Seventy Argentine accounts with plausible links to Argentina-based Nazis were opened with Credit Suisse after 1945 and at least 14 of those remained open into the 21st century - some even as recently as 2020, the release said.

Credit Suisse also assisted a Nazi businessman with the restructuring of a company in order to prevent his assets from being confiscated only to use the money later to fund bonuses for bank executives, the release said.

"As a direct result of the Committee’s investigation and its questions regarding the bank’s lack of attention to evidence involving Ratlines, Credit Suisse has committed to further investigate its apparent role in supporting Nazis fleeing from justice after WWII and to provide more detailed data about the value of accounts held during the post-1945 period," the release said.

The Budget Committee intends to continue its oversight of this matter, the release added.

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/BrianJBerletic/status/1649467175470780416

1649467175470780416

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/TomatkaP/status/1650177403916808195

1650177403916808195

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1655089080244264961

1655089080244264961

[Kryztian]

Finally, a solid explanation as to how Ukraine unfairly got the "Nazi" label - it's all Putinesque Propaganda :bigsmile:

https://i.imgur.com/J21YbYr.jpg

KYIV — Tensions flared today after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy accused Russia of sending espionage agents into his country to place little Nazi stickers on all his soldiers' helmets.

"The fact that my entire army is wearing Nazi insignias on their uniforms and gear is entirely the fault of Russia," said Zelenskyy while desperately scraping an "I love Hitler" sticker off the side of a tank. "This is an unforgivable provocation. I hereby call on the United States to drop all their atomic bombs on Russia immediately."

Sources say Russia is also responsible for tricking Ukrainian soldiers into goose-stepping, saying "Heil Hitler," and calling for the death of inferior races while waving flags with swastikas on them. "Russia has tricked thousands of innocent Ukrainians into becoming Nazis," said MSNBC Foreign Correspondent Oleksandr Petrovich. "Does their evil know no bounds? They must be stopped!"

Zelensky went on to assure the West that Ukrainian soldiers are totally the good guys and that everyone should unquestioningly be on their side. "I promise, we aren't Nazis!" he said while peeling a Totenkopf death's head off a rocket launcher.

At publishing time, tensions had escalated further when several soldiers were seen wearing "Biden/Harris" stickers.