Destiny

[Eagle Eye]

I think the major part of our life is predestined and a small part of it is free will. If I would put a percentage I would say 70% predestined and 30% free will (in which we will experience the consequences of our actions).
There is written in Scriptures that God encompasses everything and encompasses everyone's lives. We think that we have too much free will and we can choose what we want, but it's not the reality. In most cases we choose how to act around circumstances that happen to us.

[ExomatrixTV]

Maybe there should be a special separate Project Avalon Forum Sub-Category called: "Scripture Study" sub-threads and/or "Bible Studies" sub-threads and/or "Koran Studies" sub-threads ... or just "Religious Talk".


but then again, there are already 100,000s Forums in all languages doing exactly that all over the world as it is part of mainstream! Just saying.

It is not that it is "so difficult" to find them.

[Eagle Eye]

Pointless reply, in my opinion. I think Spirituality is the right category.

[ExomatrixTV]

Pointless reply, in my opinion. I think Spirituality is the right category.

You use the word "scripture" a lot ... so much so that it almost looks like nothing can be without pushing it to others.


Real spirituality is free from religious dogma of any kind ... same for "pagans" and "new age cults" they too have their dogma imposing on others often in subtle ways.

[Eagle Eye]

You use the word "scripture" a lot ... so much so that it almost looks like nothing can be without pushing it to others.

If it bothers you, there countless of other threads where it isn't used that word.

[ExomatrixTV]

You use the word "scripture" a lot ... so much so that it almost looks like nothing can be without pushing it to others.

If it bothers you, there countless of other threads where it isn't used that word.

But you keep on quoting scriptures (without saying it is from scriptures) ... you do not have to be Einstein to figure that out.


You have Avalonians asking if it is from The Bible or The Koran (seen it several times!)

Then after being asked, you are happy to say it is indeed from the scriptures.

It does not really bather me if it as its own sub category where all Religious types can talk religion 24/7

[Eagle Eye]

It's mostly from the Quran, but I have quoted also the Bible and Torah. Someone who is interested will search further, no need to specify it, because they are all Revelations.

[ExomatrixTV]

It's mostly from the Quran, but I have quoted also the Bible and Torah. Someone who is interested will search further, no need to specify it, because they are all Revelations.

That is my point ... it is your only focus non-stop.


Again: It does not really bather me if it as its own sub category where all Religious types can talk religion 24/7
at the same time, there are already 100,000s of Forums doing the same!

[Eagle Eye]

That is my point ... it is your only focus non-stop.


That's my destiny and free will combined.

[ExomatrixTV]

That is my point ... it is your only focus non-stop.


That's my destiny and free will combined.

That is what most of us are already aware of ... it seems that you are more interested in your own religious mission than truly learning new insights that Project Avalon Forum has to offer ... almost like hijacking the attention away by inserting scripture which is more than often is a "trigger" for others to ignite ensuring predictable chain reaction of "pro & cons" that are already discussed ad nauseam in to infinity in 100,000s of other Forums!


And of course you will find like-minded people "joining your mission" that is a given.

I see Project Avalon Forum as beyond mainstream, especially beyond religious dogma!

Am surprised that I have not yet seen anyone challenging the founder of this forum if he accepts "Jesus Christ as his "only" Savior" ... not that I want this "challenging" to happen, but that is the whole idea of some (in my view fanatic) religious types including some Muslims.

Many controversial discussions on Avalon can easily be hijacked when people want to dominate with their religious beliefs. This is not only happening here but on countless other places. When I gave over 80 UFO lectures in 5 countries, I have personally met all kinds of people face to face pushing their religious beliefs on me. So it is not new to me.


And I am also fully aware that maybe most do not dare to discuss this whole issue! And stay silent.

[rgray222]

I think your assessment of how much of our life is predetermined and how much is of our own free will is about right. I have always thought that the way that we think about life and free will in particular is backward. Free well belongs to the soul, not the human mind. The broad strokes of our lives are predetermined using free will by our souls before we ever arrive. We, as humans, have the ability to go left or go right, change the temperature on the thermostat or set the volume and channel on our TV but the important decisions regarding the course and substance of our human lives were made before we were born.

[Arcturian108]

As individuals, the destiny/free will ratio will differ person-to-person, but in general my guidance indicates it's about 65% destiny and 35% free will.

[ian33]

I think the major part of our life is predestined and a small part of it is free will. If I would put a percentage I would say 70% predestined and 30% free will (in which we will experience the consequences of our actions).
There is written in Scriptures that God encompasses everything and encompasses everyone's lives. We think that we have too much free will and we can choose what we want, but it's not the reality. In most cases we choose how to act around circumstances that happen to us.
i have a similar perspective, except i would say gods..
the old gods being the stars and planets(including earth), that collectively you might call god, or the cosmos, fate, whatever label suits

[Mashika]

I think your assessment of how much of our life is predetermined and how much is of our own free will is about right. I have always thought that the way that we think about life and free will in particular is backward. Free well belongs to the soul, not the human mind. The broad strokes of our lives are predetermined using free will by our souls before we ever arrive. We, as humans, have the ability to go left or go right, change the temperature on the thermostat or set the volume and channel on our TV but the important decisions regarding the course and substance of our human lives were made before we were born.

But how?

Both would be free will

Let's unpack it:

1. The soul has full free will and chooses a path for its human body. This will be the 'predetermined path' the human experience will have to follow one way or another
2. Then human entity is free to chose what to do with events and whatever happens around it, they can't change the upper designed path, but they can on their own change how it progresses

Upper (higher, spiritual) free will followed by lower (physical, experiential) free will

So free will + free will = free will

Where's the part where humans don't have full free will? Even if it's a combination of both the higher + lower one, the entire experience is based on the concept and actual implementation of free will (as imagined, conceptualized by the human race)

[Mashika]

Pointless reply, in my opinion. I think Spirituality is the right category.

You use the word "scripture" a lot ... so much so that it almost looks like nothing can be without pushing it to others.


Real spirituality is free from religious dogma of any kind ... same for "pagans" and "new age cults" they too have their dogma imposing on others often in subtle ways.


I have to agree with this

The mixed concept of Religion = Spiritualism is broken by design. It doesn't take a lot to see why. Simply put, religion has caused more death than any other thing in this world, and we have also the Inquisition, i don't think anyone needs to be explained what happened with that, all in the name of religion.

These days nothing much has changed, we still see a lot of war based on religion beliefs, specially in the middle east. And there's nothing spiritual about it, at all

The day the world is free of "my god is better than your god, and my book is better than your book" then we may actually have a chance at peace. And by we i mean someone in the very far future because the way things go these days, i don't think we'll ever get to see that world

[Mashika]

The people who point out how the scripture and how religious books have lots of human flaws, as usually replied to with some kind of answer like "you are reading it wrong" or "those parts do not apply to our current world"

Then the book is flawed

I find it hard to think that God would make such silly mistakes as written on the religious book we all know and read growing up. There's a human hand in them and it's hilarious how adapted to their times those writings are, that's why once the world moved on, the 'wisdom' is partial and lacking, and can't be considered seriously in lots of cases.

A true God written work would not have those flaws, and God would not be so powerless/lacking as to not see the future result of all those words. Let's accept that fact

We know those books were modified across the centuries and adapted to conveniently say that God was in agreement with whatever the ruling class or leaders needed people to believe. So just by that knowledge we have, the entire book is compromised

Spirituality, on the other hand, is born with the human, you feel it since you are a little kid and have not even began to learn how to read/write. You feel compassion, sadness, pain, happiness, friendship and lots of other things on your first years. It only develops from that after and through the years. And you don't need a book to learn about what that feels like, spirituality is natural and strong as soon as you wake up to this world

[Eagle Eye]

But how?

Both would be free will

Let's unpack it:

1. The soul has full free will and chooses a path for its human body. This will be the 'predetermined path' the human experience will have to follow one way or another
2. Then human entity is free to chose what to do with events and whatever happens around it, they can't change the upper designed path, but they can on their own change how it progresses

Upper (higher, spiritual) free will followed by lower (physical, experiential) free will

So free will + free will = free will

Where's the part where humans don't have full free will? Even if it's a combination of both the higher + lower one, the entire experience is based on the concept and actual implementation of free will (as imagined, conceptualized by the human race)

Our souls don't have the knowledge of the higher order, regulating 8 billion lives at once. We wouldn't be here and in this situation, if we had that kind of knowledge.

[Mashika]

But how?

Both would be free will

Let's unpack it:

1. The soul has full free will and chooses a path for its human body. This will be the 'predetermined path' the human experience will have to follow one way or another
2. Then human entity is free to chose what to do with events and whatever happens around it, they can't change the upper designed path, but they can on their own change how it progresses

Upper (higher, spiritual) free will followed by lower (physical, experiential) free will

So free will + free will = free will

Where's the part where humans don't have full free will? Even if it's a combination of both the higher + lower one, the entire experience is based on the concept and actual implementation of free will (as imagined, conceptualized by the human race)

Our souls don't have the knowledge of the higher order, regulating 8 billion lives at once. We wouldn't be here and in this situation, if we had that kind of knowledge.

This changes nothing of what i said, this is you trying to fix your human understanding of things as a preventive measure because you don't want to consider things can work in a different way than what you learned across the years

[JackMcThorn]

65-70% destiny, 30-35% free will is what has been mentioned thus far.

I first thought that is awfully interesting. Typical thinking [or arguments] is either 1oo% either way.

But the more I think about these percentages, someone somewhere can not take responsibility for a big chunk of their life and chalk it up to 'destiny'.

The truth is, I remember all my bad decisions [as well as the good ones] and if I am to take responsibility for my life, all the good and the bad that came with it, after all these years, then it truly is 1oo% free will. [For me anyhow, maybe not for you.]

[Eagle Eye]

This changes nothing of what i said, this is you trying to fix your human understanding of things as a preventive measure because you don't want to consider things can work in a different way than what you learned across the years

It means predestination is calculated according to everyone's lives and not what an individual soul choose.

[Mashika]

But how?

Both would be free will

Let's unpack it:

1. The soul has full free will and chooses a path for its human body. This will be the 'predetermined path' the human experience will have to follow one way or another
2. Then human entity is free to chose what to do with events and whatever happens around it, they can't change the upper designed path, but they can on their own change how it progresses

Upper (higher, spiritual) free will followed by lower (physical, experiential) free will

So free will + free will = free will

Where's the part where humans don't have full free will? Even if it's a combination of both the higher + lower one, the entire experience is based on the concept and actual implementation of free will (as imagined, conceptualized by the human race)

Our souls don't have the knowledge of the higher order, regulating 8 billion lives at once. We wouldn't be here and in this situation, if we had that kind of knowledge.


This is a case for you to meditate about, consider the following, or not, it is up to you

Maybe, there are some humans that actually know about 'the higher order' details and have not forgotten at all what happens there
They are not afraid of death because they know and understand what happened before and what happens after
They are doing something here on this life while fully aware of their date of death and it's fine, because if you know and are mature and capable enough, knowing your day of death while knowing what happens next means nothing
They also know they should not tell you anything about this, and they act normal around all other people who is unaware because this knowledge would destroy the unprepared people in lots of ways

You may be blocking yourself from following that path because you say "we can't know' or "it is not for us to know". Why do you think you have some kind of 'final' knowledge about how these things work? You seem to be speaking on very final terms, as in "this is how it is, period". That's very authoritarian and a contradiction, since you said we don't know anything about the higher soul or what happens out there, so then how do you know or can even affirm something at all? See?

Also, if the higher soul is the one that is fully aware, then how can you say 'our souls don't have the knowledge of the higher order"

This is wrong, the human doesn't have that knowledge, and the soul also doesn't, then who has it?


If it breaks easily after careful close examination, then it is faulty by design

¤=[Post Update]=¤





This changes nothing of what i said, this is you trying to fix your human understanding of things as a preventive measure because you don't want to consider things can work in a different way than what you learned across the years

It means predestination is calculated according to everyone's lives and not what an individual soul choose.

As in my previous post, this is meaningless information, because there's no way you could know about it, it's a conceptualization of something you have zero information about

[Open Minded Dude]

For me a good analogy for human Earth life situation would be 'Improvisational Theatre'.

The setup, stage and general plot in different acts in part is 'loosely' pre-determined. But what you do with your 'character' you 'play' is still up to you. And also if you change direction and deviate from the 'outline'. Also there is opportunities by 'coincindences' guiding your way in possible directions including your decision making again. And there are mere 'coincidences' but they might be also manipulations from the outside.

I think it is a wild mix. And a wild ride anyway.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I've never questioned my free will. I have questioned my choices.

My choices in what to believe, even what to entertain to believe, have led to the actions I have taken.

The gods may interfere in the affairs of humanity and individuals, but they cannot influence what I believe unless I intend to listen. If I choose to listen, choose to see as told, choose to even entertain to believe (consider as plausible), then I become susceptible to external manipulation.

If I did this, I might seem to have no free will. But I chose to listen and to be influenced. The choice is free.

Here's the rub. We think we choose each action, each thought, and that those choices are in response to current, unfiltered input.
But what if every choice is the same choice and no novel choice ever takes place?
What if what we believe prevents us from making a different choice, a novel choice?

And what if what we believe is incorrect at a fundamental level?
How can we make choices if we are not certain we act on unadulterated and unbiased data?

Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.
Maybe destiny is a measure of that fact...

[Mashika]

Here's the rub. We think we choose each action, each thought, and that those choices are in response to current, unfiltered input.
But what if every choice is the same choice and no novel choice ever takes place?
What if what we believe prevents us from making a different choice, a novel choice?

And what if what we believe is incorrect at a fundamental level?
How can we make choices if we are not certain we act on unadulterated and unbiased data?


As soon as a book talking about these things becomes "sacred' then spiritually stops existing and it all ends up in 'religion'

If something that was written on a book has been repeated for centuries as some kind of chant or similar, then it becomes 'the law'

If you don't follow the law, then you are against 'the word'

And if you are against the word, then you are against all the people who follow the law

And then you are at the stake

Once religious takes over spiritualism in any nation, culture or otherwise, then authoritarian views are implemented, all the time. We don't have to suppose that, it's written all over history and proven even these days, so it's no mystery really

Spiritually is free flowing, religion is immutable

I had a hard time understanding what was happening when i first talked about Zen and Buddhism online, i found that for several people it had turned into a 'sacred words' kind of thing, and that they would constantly quote and almost guide their lives by specific quotes taken out of books they read

When i tried to explain that yes you must read those books, but that in most schools of Zen and Buddhism you are thought that you must read, but not centralize your views around what you have read, but instead just incorporate them into your overall life and understanding of your own soul, i got attacked by a lot of people because it seemed to them that i was disrespecting the old masters. I tried to explain that the old masters forbade students from quoting the masters and instead to move forward and come up with their own ideas so that the school would progress and so on.

I got the beating of my life out of that lmao, these people had turned Zen into a religion of sorts. Just like the little guys in the Man in Black movie did in the locker room scene
16-P9Ov7DfY

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


Long story short, if you make spiritualism into something 'sacred', then it doesn't leave much room to grow, and the soul stagnates and diminishes. With no room to grow because you can't expand or think outside the 'teachings' or go against them, then soul rot comes and takes it all away

[ExomatrixTV]

Prime Creator is beyond any man-made or alien-made Religions

[Mashika]

This changes nothing of what i said, this is you trying to fix your human understanding of things as a preventive measure because you don't want to consider things can work in a different way than what you learned across the years

It means predestination is calculated according to everyone's lives and not what an individual soul choose.

Once, long ago, i asked you to read about Shinto religion, from Japan, but you didn't, did you? Perhaps you thought it was a waste of time because it is completely unrelated to the Bible? Perhaps you found no value on a completely foreign religion that has very little to share with your own ???

Since you never said anything about it, i'm going to assume you didn't even try, and i found that sad and lacking, since you could have learned a lot about how human nature works, and why some of the stuff you consider or take for granted about how things work, it's 100% depending on your culture and environment while growing up

But oh well, you cut yourself short and you took away your own chance at learning and growing up, in a spiritual way. I don't think you understand how or why, but that's fine

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118759-Do-you-believe-in-God&p=1501987&viewfull=1#post1501987


As long as you consider any book or scripture without corruption, you are going the wrong way, and you're still in the bubble of God meaning a Christian or related one by association

Let's talk about Indian Gods, or "alternatives" from other places like China or Japan No one cares about them anymore? Or is it because it was not part of your growing up years? Shinto is a great example of how Gods are created and become meaningful through someone's life, looking at it from our point of view in 2022. You should check it up

Get immersed into Shinto for a bit/while, then you should look back into your 'normal' religion and maybe you'll see stuff you did not see before, and then realize something. I don't know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto

There is a lot of stuff going on in the human soul, and very little of it has to do with perceptions of human like Gods, or egocentric ones. That's just a projections of human weakness and hopes/aspirations

You still don't understand that you don't understand :)

After all this time, you are still here, unable to understand this
8IVovvrcVZ8

And on the first level of this game:
GEJ6ZVYuYsw



To truly experience religion, instead of following along, you need to do something like this. If this seems like a joke or doesn't make much sense, then it means you have to take a step back and consider that it doesn't matter at all and stop taking things seriously. Nothing is a joke because everything is a joke.

If you don't understand that, then that's where the problem is.


"The land is unchanged"

[Matthew]

My opinion since this thread is popular: Our mothers can predict our behaviour. That doesn't mean we don't have free will and surprise them. Someone who lives to five hundred years old would begin to be able to predict how people might behave, and see through them like they are an open book, because they've seen so much before. That doesn't mean the people they observe don't have free will. Now take that to the divine level... who can see through you like an open book but that doesn't necessarily mean you don't have free will. Even if there is no true free will at the ultimate divine layer, there will still be surprises for every layer below, no matter how well they predict. You get the picture: I believe in free will and God.

[Matthew]

...

I might understand, I'm not sure; I think I do, because I believe can be like your points here, when people go on about Scientology dogma and we are good buddies in those situations because of an incidental intersection of opinions in that this area. That said, scientologists outside of the SeaOrg are the dangest nicest people, just as Morman followers are outside the organisation. Catholics too are exceptionally sweet. Organised religion and religious dogma is ALWAYS a thorny subject. I like seeing bible quotes though but I think I understand your point of view :handshake:

[ExomatrixTV]

...

I might understand, I'm not sure; I think I do, because I believe can be like your points here, when people go on about Scientology dogma and we are good buddies in those situations because of an incidental intersection of opinions in that this area. That said, scientologists outside of the SeaOrg are the dangest nicest people, just as Morman followers are outside the organisation. Catholics too are exceptionally sweet. Organised religion and religious dogma is ALWAYS a thorny subject. I like seeing bible quotes though but I think I understand your point of view :handshake:

thnx :dog:


I see Project Avalon Forum as beyond mainstream, especially beyond religious dogma!

Mainstream religious scriptures are known to most of us, as it is everywhere to be found +millions of people sharing it all over the world already!
Then when people start pushing it over and over and over ... it is not that we are "surprised" ... am used to it, but it gets annoying when people assume they are on the so called: "higher moral ground" or think they can judge all people who are not Christian or not Muslim etc. etc. This behavior is happening all over the place, not just here.
Some "Christian Truthers" (most do not) demand a certain way of thinking and if you dare to question any of it than you are helping "evil spirits" and such. I experienced this so many times in real life not just online I'm getting really allergic to it.

William Cooper - Lansing Michigan Lecture (1996) on Religion & Freedom!
-RtdEyuZEPU
I personally met Bill Cooper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper) in January 8th, 1993 "Global Deception Conference" 30 years ago, organized by Mary Seal in London! ... Have deep respect and learned a lot of the many Christian Truthers like Bill, but some of them seems that they do not get it.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Kryztian]

Maybe there should be a special separate Project Avalon Forum Sub-Category called: "Scripture Study" sub-threads and/or "Bible Studies" sub-threads and/or "Koran Studies" sub-threads ... or just "Religious Talk".


John, not sure why you frequently have such a problem with religious texts. Just because someone is quoting a religious text on the matter does not mean that they are trying to sell you on that religion, or that they are even part of that religion. Religions texts are, just like many other text, repositories of history and ideas, filled with good, and sometimes, bad, ideas.

The way the first post was phrased, it was starting a discussion about free will, and wasn't asking that you reply within the realm of a religious view, it is just that that particular poster seems to have a strong background in that field. It's always good to know "where people are coming from" and how their argument might be related to other beliefs they hold.

If one was to explain, historically, about how the idea of destiny or free will evolved, you would need to discuss some very Christian philosophers like St. Thomas Aquinas or John Calvin, as well as people like Aristotle and modern analytic philosopher who write from a perspective without regard to beliefs about God.

I just don't seem to feel that we need to segregate the views of religious people from a-religious, humanist, agnostic and atheist views, as long as people are open to each other's background, and they stay focused on the topic instead of arguing whether or not god exists or one religion is "true" and the others "false".

[ExomatrixTV]

Maybe there should be a special separate Project Avalon Forum Sub-Category called: "Scripture Study" sub-threads and/or "Bible Studies" sub-threads and/or "Koran Studies" sub-threads ... or just "Religious Talk".


John, not sure why you frequently have such a problem with religious texts. Just because someone is quoting a religious text on the matter does not mean that they are trying to sell you on that religion, or that they are even part of that religion. Religions texts are, just like many other text, repositories of history and ideas, filled with good, and sometimes, bad, ideas.

The way the first post was phrased, it was starting a discussion about free will, and wasn't asking that you reply within the realm of a religious view, it is just that that particular poster seems to have a strong background in that field. It's always good to know "where people are coming from" and how their argument might be related to other beliefs they hold.

If one was to explain, historically, about how the idea of destiny or free will evolved, you would need to discuss some very Christian philosophers like St. Thomas Aquinas or John Calvin, as well as people like Aristotle and modern analytic philosopher who write from a perspective without regard to beliefs about God.

I just don't seem to feel that we need to segregate the views of religious people from a-religious, humanist, agnostic and atheist views, as long as people are open to each other's background, and they stay focused on the topic instead of arguing whether or not god exists or one religion is "true" and the others "false".

Depends on what your track-record is of showing real interest of the topics at hand and I do not mean everything of course ... but at least show some interactions with different topics/insights than only your own religious "mission" ... If anyone has a real religious "mission" than why not have a genuine place for all religious people quoting scripture 24/7


I have absolutely no issues with occasional quoting ... I do that too, by the way ... when I discuss among others: "The Mark Of The Beast 666" John Revelations and such connected to the upcoming cashless society and the New World Order.

Have no illusions that I have a say in this what is the "best way" ... I do not run this Forum ... I merely gave a suggestion and why I feel that way ... Does not mean it has to happen.


Prime Creator is beyond any man-made or alien-made Religions

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Mashika]

Maybe there should be a special separate Project Avalon Forum Sub-Category called: "Scripture Study" sub-threads and/or "Bible Studies" sub-threads and/or "Koran Studies" sub-threads ... or just "Religious Talk".


John, not sure why you frequently have such a problem with religious texts. Just because someone is quoting a religious text on the matter does not mean that they are trying to sell you on that religion, or that they are even part of that religion. Religions texts are, just like many other text, repositories of history and ideas, filled with good, and sometimes, bad, ideas.

The way the first post was phrased, it was starting a discussion about free will, and wasn't asking that you reply within the realm of a religious view, it is just that that particular poster seems to have a strong background in that field. It's always good to know "where people are coming from" and how their argument might be related to other beliefs they hold.

If one was to explain, historically, about how the idea of destiny or free will evolved, you would need to discuss some very Christian philosophers like St. Thomas Aquinas or John Calvin, as well as people like Aristotle and modern analytic philosopher who write from a perspective without regard to beliefs about God.

I just don't seem to feel that we need to segregate the views of religious people from a-religious, humanist, agnostic and atheist views, as long as people are open to each other's background, and they stay focused on the topic instead of arguing whether or not god exists or one religion is "true" and the others "false".

I am not John, but i can say that the problem i also have, and very likely share, is that there's a difference between talking about a subject, and talking about a subject as an absolute truth that can't be denied or refused. And if you deny or refuse, then you are in the wrong

Authoritarian, final, permanent views are not spiritual. And "the book' is authoritarian in the first place, let's not deny that, it is written all over it

If you talk about some subjects or subsections of that book, it almost ends in the "It's the book, so it is the truth!", there's very little room for change there

That's bothersome, specially for people coming from other backgrounds, where "The book" has little power or meaning, because, you know, different cultures

Assumptions around that stuff are dangerous

So there's no segregation the way you said, it's the opposite

I asked Eagle Eye to look into Shinto and ponder about it, he clearly didn't, was i segregating , or was the opposite?

You could easy argue that, if i were a Shinto follower and tried to talk about my religion to Eagle Eye, he threw me out to the side of the road as road kill. Not even a look back on their way to some destination. Ain't that nice?

Everything is the way it is, but not because of people wanting it to be that way, but because the rigid and absurd rules or organized religion made it so



If one was to explain, historically, about how the idea of destiny or free will evolved, you would need to discuss some very Christian philosophers like St. Thomas Aquinas or John Calvin, as well as people like Aristotle and modern analytic philosopher who write from a perspective without regard to beliefs about God.

Because the eastern world has not existed at all over the same amount of centuries or longer?

The concept of free will exists on Buddhism, and it predates the one embedded into western style religions. Remember that all of this religion concept started in the east, not in the west.

There are differences but you must read about them, if you don't try, then how will you know?

[Hym]

I could not help but think about Gene Wilder's character in the comedy "Young Frankenstein" suddenly exclaiming, "Destiny, Destiny....." sounding like a high school chant. He was so bound by fighting his "Destiny" that he made it his destiny to confront the ghost of his father's fantastical theories which, it even just being a movie, turns out that the science was possible....

I do think that it is so easy to get off course here, considering that the heading OP, "Destiny" is just waiting for people to fill in the blanks, with our own preconceptions. That too is good to get out in the open and exposed to each other's ideas, but as has been suggested, is likely covered in other threads, or should be. I won't go there except for this little bit, otherwise it'll just be a release-free, circle jerk to some of our good friends here and that's not my way.

I hear you John, but I do my best to lay off of those honest friends we have here. In my experience, especially when I dress a bit different than others at times, it isn't that annoying. And at this time, with so many truths coming out into the open, they get to see the reality of whatever their religions have proven to be dishonest about. I have at least some, what I'd call real christian friends, ones who I can have some real honest discussions with, but I consider them like younger siblings...to the best of their understanding and honest efforts on their way thru a thoroughly dishonest and deliberate rearrangement of writings, ones that my experience never even allowed me to consider, as they, in the millions have done.

So, how were any of those so called men of god, or even God himself, so unaware as to not know that their words would be so used to abuse, rape, kill and enslave millions of other people? Say a prayer for their gods, or God if you will, as it seems that they need more help than humans do. Pray for your enemies...I'm Good. Like the song says "Jesus is just all right with me". Of this I am sure, and not just because I know a lot of the history that the church of pedophelia has hidden for so long about his life, his travels, even a prayer named after him.

Or how that religion, just to protect the new illusion, the new religion they were stealing from the amazing life of an honest, disciplined and open, original thinker, created the myth that only one woman was good enough to carry the soul of a very loving, self-sacrificing being to be born from her body? Wow ! That's some heavy duty b.s., to lay on any mother....With that in mind, how could a woman give birth to any loving human, humane and caring child? Who really invented that lie, binding any mother to limit not only herself but the future of her child? Dang ! Thankfully, most women don't let that crap enter their lives, by not limiting their expressions, and their sacrificing efforts borne in Love, which are the truths their children and this world get to experience.

And having been raised in that cult of Cath's, O'lic-ing what-I don't know, I understand that limiting mindset. No wonder I left when I was 10, way before the pedo's would have been killed by a kid like me who wouldn't have put up with the abuse. My life has been about experiences, about as far from any orthodoxy as possible, without having any pressures to conform. I only relate to people living in integrity, so that leaves most religious folks way out of my life, and includes an unending variety of people, relatives from the spiritual world.

My experience with Shinto's KotoDaaMaa/KotoTaaMaa and misogi, maybe like the suggestions from Masha, and with my experiences and practices of other systems, Jain NaamoKaar Muntruh, GoorMookee's BaaNees/Sudaa Sunpoorun Paat and Ishnaan, alive with the Vibrations, Songs, the Naad while being sounded, sung, and LISTENED TO...(knowingly shared with me, just some interested guy, fully knowing that I would share these systems with anyone), have given me the experience, devoid of any belief or interjection from someone else's concept of destiny.

In these processes, each person holds their destiny to choose. In one path, a thinker not knowing the limitations of the mind, is call a ManMukh/Muhnmook, a shallow being. Muhn, like in "mundane", is the "mind", only a tool of the spirit, like the body and the Punj Taatvaas. Mukh/Mook is to speak, the face of..., Not the essence, the spirit, the worth, the meaning, the value of Being...Alive...the walk from dark Gu, to light Ru.

Yes, I would agree that getting westerners to stop thinking is a necessary beginning to being free from the confines of being locked into any destiny. This is proven by the absurd preponderance of a movement and methods called Mindfulness which, while primarily being taken over by some Mindless Slavery to various manipulative social constructs, reveals a simple question....What the F' are you not mindful about, if you have to take a class reminding you to be mindful? Have you lost your mind? Well, don't worry about it. It's there, somewhere.
It's not as important as it makes itself out to be.

Experience. Integrity. Living true to your words. Whatever 'Destiny' is in each life it must be hard for those who follow the precept, the imposition of a concept to even believe of the possibility that the word "God" is in all manners, all realities.....just a word. The mind, by the way, does not have the capacity to experience the concept beyond it being just that, a concept.

I have no doubt that any focused individual can create an out of the ordinary experience in their life, even ones that mimic experiences that follow their preconditioned religious upbringings. I have had friends, acquaintances, from different paths tell me of some "different", super natural experiences they've had, somehow bound within the understanding of their paths. Good for them.

Does that entirely mean that they live honestly, without prejudice, as if there was some other "God" who created their enemies, even as hypocritical as that is? Does this mean that without having a real NDE, a near death experience, often where every thing negative and positive experienced in their life is felt in the first few seconds while the release is happening, or during the healing experience from opiates thru the use of Iboagine, where all we have done to hurt others is felt by us, that at least some few can release themselves from the imposition their society, their media, their religion has laid so heavily upon them? Not likely. In this manner, the word Destiny is the outcome of being a slave to someone else's thought, not of the life of a sovereign soul, one both aware of another great journey and simultaneously humbled by the unending enormity of the infinite...

Destiny is just another projection in a world where if you're not told that you are free, the chances are that you will never choose to exercise your ability to create your own Life. Humans....so f'n bound by words and concepts....rarely just living and super enjoying the life...not really listening.........in a world when very aware individuals have always inspired others to set themselves free, especially of thought. Anyone limiting another singular person's experience has got some serious issues going on.

A very well know man, respected in his time for his ability to accentuate the infinite nature within each person, especially outside of dogmatic religions, laid down amongst a group of pilgrims in the area, to go to sleep. However, his feet were pointing to the little building with a meteorite in it, a thing revered by the people of the area.

A guard came by to remind the man that it was very disrespectful to sleep with his feet pointing at the building, noting that "God was in the building". The man responded by saying "If that is so, pick up my feet and place them anywhere that God does not exist". The guard picked up the traveling man's legs but could not budge them. He had two of his fellow guards assist in lifting the man's legs up, but they too could not move them, even as they were the strongest amongst the group there. In fact, the building began to shake....

When anyone who has been abused, victimized enough, in any manner to learn how to separate themselves from their body tell you that mind control is the mark of modern societies, it is because they see no difference in the dishonesty and the manipulation of the psyche from their experience to yours. The gift is in freeing ourselves from the pain...

I do think that if we have any rules, everyone should be required to watch "The Life of Brian" before they are allowed to talk about their "religion".

[Johnnycomelately]

IMO, destiny is not an absolute, but a feature of will. A focus, or aimpoint, a desired state of being, it must depend on what is wanted. You can align your will with another’s, following their desired goals, but that’s still a practice of your own function of will. Value of choices is another matter entirely, and that should be the topic of the some other thread suggested upthread.

Here is an example of what I think is the correct use of the word, involving a desired state of being.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqKmb7SSpTE

[Kryztian]

I have absolutely no issues with occasional quoting ... I do that too, by the way ...



In my almost 3000 posts on Avalon, I think I have posted a total of exactly one bible quote posted on the forum and I received this excoriation (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114071-What-Does-The-Bible-Say-About-Opening-The-Third-Eye&p=1411490&viewfull=1#post1411490) from you when I did it. But that wasn't enough, you had to repost your screed here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114594-How-The-Messiah-Is-Calling-Muslims-And-Other-Non-Believers-For-Eternal-Life&p=1421291&viewfull=1#post1421291).

But you are telling me now that you have posted from the Bible at least once if not more??? :unsure:

Okay, that calls for another biblical quote, my second:


Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:3-5)

:ROFL:

[Johnnycomelately]

That is a very nice argument. Not helpful to this thread, but fun reading.

No disrespect to you or John K., but there is a better place for it. As much as I welcome any discussion involving justice, over on my thread Justice (🎶 how does it work?), I think yous should take this to the penalty box:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120392-Value-of-Choices&p=1538923#post1538923

😎👻🎶😊





I have absolutely no issues with occasional quoting ... I do that too, by the way ...



In my almost 3000 posts on Avalon, I think I have posted a total of exactly one bible quote posted on the forum and I received this excoriation (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114071-What-Does-The-Bible-Say-About-Opening-The-Third-Eye&p=1411490&viewfull=1#post1411490) from you when I did it. But that wasn't enough, you had to repost your screed here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114594-How-The-Messiah-Is-Calling-Muslims-And-Other-Non-Believers-For-Eternal-Life&p=1421291&viewfull=1#post1421291).

But you are telling me now that you have posted from the Bible at least once if not more??? :unsure:

Okay, that calls for another biblical quote, my second:


Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:3-5)

:ROFL:

[Michi]

One account in regards to destiny is the book Destiny of Souls: New Case Studies of Life Between Lives (https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Michael%20Newton%20-%20Destiny%20of%20Souls%20-%20New%20Case%20Studies%20of%20Life%20Between%20Lives.pdf) by Michael Newton

According to many NDE accounts, one likely encounters in the afterlife the same religious framework, if one is a devotee on earth.

So this tells quite a bit about ones destiny. Belief and destiny are closely intertwined.

But destiny can be "re-written" by the soul - if the need arises.
Key factors for this to occur is self-confidence and discernment and sovereignty.

[XelNaga]

Percentage of "destiny" and percentage of free will depends on the individual, it depends on their level of consciousness.

The more conscious one is, the more free will he has.

What people, mistakenly, call destiny/fate/predetermined life, are actually their own unconscious and subconscious minds.

The less aware you are, the more your back-ground programs will run your mind, thus running your life.

When one reaches consciousness level of total awareness, he will gain 100% free will and 100% control of his life and his being.

[Kryztian]

That is a very nice argument. Not helpful to this thread, but fun reading.

No disrespect to you or John K., but there is a better place for it. As much as I welcome any discussion involving justice, over on my thread Justice (🎶 how does it work?), I think yous should take this to the penalty box:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120392-Value-of-Choices&p=1538923#post1538923

😎👻🎶😊



Yes, it is annoying when the threads go off topic into something tangential. That pretty much happened here because of one word, "scripture".

When you see a post go off topic, you can either (1) choose to ignore it, and maybe even post something to steer it back on to the topic, or (2) address it. I usually choose the the former, but since the problem was chronic having derailed more than one thread, I really felt it needed to be addressed, partly so that it doesn't do this in threads. Apologies to Eagle Eye and the others who want to talk and read about the topic in the thread above, as I do to.

The topic is "Destiny". I guess this thread was destined to go off topic. Or did we choose to do so? :sun:

:focus:

[ExomatrixTV]

I have absolutely no issues with occasional quoting ... I do that too, by the way ...




In my almost 3000 posts on Avalon, I think I have posted a total of exactly one bible quote posted on the forum and I received this excoriation (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114071-What-Does-The-Bible-Say-About-Opening-The-Third-Eye&p=1411490&viewfull=1#post1411490) from you when I did it. But that wasn't enough, you had to repost your screed here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114594-How-The-Messiah-Is-Calling-Muslims-And-Other-Non-Believers-For-Eternal-Life&p=1421291&viewfull=1#post1421291).

But you are telling me now that you have posted from the Bible at least once if not more??? :unsure:

Okay, that calls for another biblical quote, my second:


Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:3-5):ROFL:


Actually it was not meant "only for you" but all who loves to jump on the religious bandwagon or are triggered to assume it is the "only" best way to see things or those who assume we are like that ... I just want others to know we are not "all the same" and have good reasons for that!


My bad experiences with some "Christians" in general (including Pedophile Priest (https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/sex-crimes-and-the-vatican/)) in real life shaped me this way ... maybe I need more therapy or something.

Sorry if I came across unjust towards you @Kryztian (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?13648-Kryztian)! ... I need to restrain my frustration or at least explain where it is coming from a bit more.

[Heart to heart]

Is the purpose of DESTINY to choose the experience of DENSITY?

Were we destined to take on the density of a third dimensional body in order to experience time and space with the ability to make freewill choices?

Every choice can be negative or positive and will carry a consequence. We reap what we sow, and our free will is either aligned with the Creative Source or not.

We can choose the upward spiral of love, care and compassion, or the downward spiral of selfishness, psychopathy and narcissism . The latter can lead to many more incarnations of the creation of the physical form with the eventual consequences of one's previous actions. There is no escape from yourself.

When you are finally released from density you will have true freedom within your spiritual self.

Choose wisely for your true destiny is just to BE.

TO BE or NOT TO BE that is indeed the question!

[delfine]

I think the major part of our life is predestined and a small part of it is free will. If I would put a percentage I would say 70% predestined and 30% free will (in which we will experience the consequences of our actions).
There is written in Scriptures that God encompasses everything and encompasses everyone's lives. We think that we have too much free will and we can choose what we want, but it's not the reality. In most cases we choose how to act around circumstances that happen to us.

Indeed. The great sage Ramakrishna described it this way:"Our free will is like a tethered cow. The cow is free to walk where it pleases, but only within the limit of the tether ".

[XelNaga]

That is a very nice argument. Not helpful to this thread, but fun reading.

No disrespect to you or John K., but there is a better place for it. As much as I welcome any discussion involving justice, over on my thread Justice (🎶 how does it work?), I think yous should take this to the penalty box:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120392-Value-of-Choices&p=1538923#post1538923

😎👻🎶😊



Yes, it is annoying when the threads go off topic into something tangential. That pretty much happened here because of one word, "scripture".

When you see a post go off topic, you can either (1) choose to ignore it, and maybe even post something to steer it back on to the topic, or (2) address it. I usually choose the the former, but since the problem was chronic having derailed more than one thread, I really felt it needed to be addressed, partly so that it doesn't do this in threads. Apologies to Eagle Eye and the others who want to talk and read about the topic in the thread above, as I do to.

The topic is "Destiny". I guess this thread was destined to go off topic. Or did we choose to do so? :sun:

:focus:

It was "destined" to do so, simply because, "destiny" is a concept of abrahamic religions, which are the biggest psy-op in the history of humanity.

Without any intention to offend anyone (as I appreciate all PA members), only imbeciles can follow abrahamic religions fully, because anyone who has any significant level of consciousness can see them for what they are (a psy-op).

PS: I'm 100% with ExomatrixTV on this, if you wanna preach abrahamic religions, do it somewhere else, the IQ level and consciousness level of this forum is far above that.

[Paul D.]

I read once that Yogananda's guru Sri Yuketeswar said that man has 75% predestined & 25% free will , not a million miles from some of this thread's speculation .

[nzn]

I think life is Like a video game and we are just playing the part of a script that was written way before we were even born. Idk, determinism is a very complex topic and I'm not entirely sure if 100% free will exists. Maybe a lil bit but most of the things that happen in our life we didn't choose them, that's my opinion though.

[Sunny-side-up]

If like me, you/we believe in a higher self, then it is that higher self who has most of the important say in the life.
Bits that turn out as surprises and or go wrong is done by the lower material self, the self you know as you.

So if your not going wrong all the time it means the majority of your life is not free will.

Just thinking

[Eagle Eye]

[17 : 60] And when We told you, "Indeed, your Lord has encompassed the people."...

[Ernie Nemeth]

How do you create a reality with a predetermined outcome due to the reason for the reality being created in the first place?

When technology is employed to fill a need, the technology is developed backward from intended use to mode of manufacture.

The criteria of creating a reality is much the same. The outcome determines the structure. Or as it is usually stated, but backwards, function follows form.

In other words, to create a reality requires working backwards, that is from the future towards the past. This way, the form of the reality will ensure that the function of that reality has/is/will be manifest.

Destiny is that part of reality that must be in order for that reality to have the 'shape' (manifestation) it has.


Bottom line:
Reality couldn't/isn't/wouldn't be if YOU were not calculated as part of its design.

[Merkaba360]

Percentage of "destiny" and percentage of free will depends on the individual, it depends on their level of consciousness.

The more conscious one is, the more free will he has.

What people, mistakenly, call destiny/fate/predetermined life, are actually their own unconscious and subconscious minds.

The less aware you are, the more your back-ground programs will run your mind, thus running your life.

When one reaches consciousness level of total awareness, he will gain 100% free will and 100% control of his life and his being.


True, but I don't think it gets to 100% at least in this heavily restricted world. Otherwise we could take control of the body and stop its aging and such. Or moving mountains. Unless those are impossible due to being against the nature of life's design. But, I am quite sure there are controls we have in higher dimensions of pure thought or energy that we won't ever have here. Those higher dimensions have more degrees of freedom by definition. More freedom = more power. Having that kind of power I guess would mean you aren't in our earth plane anymore or at least if you used that power here, you would break the game. lol

Astrologers have said that its like parents and children. the heavanly bodies (astrology) are powerful energies that have more influence and control (parents) over less evolved/conscious beings. So, astrological forces have less influence/control over a liberated or powerful being as they are mature and conscious enough to take over the reigns.

This divide between conscious and unconscious mind is very important in how this all works. As our natural state is to be fully conscious or 'god' consciousness, then creating this barrier and limitation creates a big problem with many ramifications. Just another manifestation of the dual nature of life. Free will vs. pre-determination( destiny) being another. Its always the foolish way to pick one side of these dualities as if its either/or and not both and.

From the perspective of the current "conscious" me that doesn't have full access or control of the unconscious arenas, I absolutely don't have total free will. Even if a part of me is doing that its not the me that matters. The split creates confusion and ignorance as well. So, my ignorant conscious self is making all kinds of error repetitively that gets programmed into the unconscious and then manifests events later on that my conscious self doesn't want or choose even though it did choose it unwittingly. See what I mean? It is similar to hanging around a bunch of very intelligent scammers or manipulators. Maybe like being in the CIA. I'm making many decisions every day of my own free will, but its so NOT free, since I am too ignorant to not be somewhat controlled/manipulated by the other liars involved.

Lets apply this free will, pre-determination paradox/balance to mother earth as a being. Every year she has no choice but to take the same oval path around the sun, her boss giving her orders (the parent). The big macro picture is pre-determined (Order) ex: god, universal mind, astrological influences, archetypal patterns of life. But the micro world (Chaos) has much flexibility where mother earth can choose minute changes of detail in her orbit around the sun every year. Just like we have free will on the details of whether to have peanut butter or jam on our toast. The quantum world must work the same. Not so easy to change a hydrogen atom, but there will be much possibility to change myriads of quantum changes that don't affect the overall atom.

Lets say that you were an extremely quiet person. You have the free will to be talkative if you pushed yourself. But the overall archetypal energy of your body/mind has a predilection for quietude. That is the predetermined big picture setup to your life. your free will allows you some flexibility to be more talkative if you want. Pushing yourself to be a motormouth daily is going to wear you down. So, just as the sun is taking the general path of least resistance around its orbit, its just too much effort and strain to use free will to overcome your archetypal nature to an extreme extent. Why be unhappy and work so hard just to be free to be a chatterbox lol.

[Eva2]

I had posted this video on another thread and found it interesting. The first part of it covers Baba Vanga's life and predictions and then moves onto Chapter 2 which covers the "Area 51" of Europe site at a village in Bulgaria. Excavation of an underground tunnel opened up/initiated contact with entities that "could" be our future selves. According to them, we are presently experiencing a transition through cellular symbiosis to a much higher upgraded entity fully connected to the universe and much more. This is being brought about organically and doesn't include the dark" enslavement technology" "they" are trying to foist on us. Perhaps these are the high frequency positive beings we are hearing about and I found their description of the destiny of an upgraded humanity to be positive and empowering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8EPmpx0BpQ