Not flat earth but...

[mojo]

Sorry if this comes across as another flat earth theory which it is not. I have always believed in the helio centric model until listening to Patrick Gunnels which is now challenging my thinking. Maybe you feel the same about our blue sphere. He is not saying flat earth but something in the math says maybe not a sphere.

Start @ 9 minute mark... but specifically at 13
v24ufz8

[mojo]

This video below seems unrleated to Patrick Gunnels hypothesis but the thought that we have been living in a simulation which has also been a new idea for me since watching this video below recently. It helps explain how a non helio centric model might work. Just like a computer simulation there are enough pixels to render the video to make it look real. It's only until you zoom in that more definition gets rendered. That might be how it works for the model. We only see enough to render the earth or photo shop as Patrick says.

this video blew my mind.
4wMhXxZ1zNM

[Johnnycomelately]

Hi Mojo. His figure for the calculated drop due to curvature of (an ideal, spherical) Earth over 10 statue miles, 800 inches, matches what I found on this website:

https://earthcurvature.com/

800 inches equals a little over 66 1/2 feet. At 100 miles, the figure is 6668.41 feet. Mr. Patrick Gunnels claims that it’s possible for us to see 100 miles out. Clear day implied. Bonneville Salt Flats might stretch 10 miles, should follow Earth’s ‘sea-levelness’ habit, and yield good data (good even if less than 10 miles). Come to think of it, you could use any two shorelines on a long lake, on a low-wind day, and test for laser-signature ~like modern Surveyors use. Lasers (L is for light) travel in a straight line, at least for the first second or so.

He didn’t mention actually trying this test, he hand-waved it. Being a mathematics major (nerd), maybe he has no experience outside eyeballing the horizon. He went on to talk about the weird fact that the atmosphere doesn’t get sucked out into the vacuum of space, but didn’t mention the gravity effect (on the atmosphere) that causes your ears to ~pop when ascending to or descending from airliner cabin-altitude (standard/normal, 8000 feet).

He says we should all be flying off the planet, because of the speeds and the curved paths it is ‘supposedly’ doing, while neglecting the “#Youtoo” of gravity.

I don’t think he’s earnest, but would be open to having my mind changed.


Sorry if this comes across as another flat earth theory which it is not. I have always believed in the helio centric model until listening to Patrick Gunnels which is now challenging my thinking. Maybe you feel the same about our blue sphere. He is not saying flat earth but something in the math says maybe not a sphere.

Start @ 9 minute mark... but specifically at 13
v24ufz8

[Bill Ryan]

Nonsense. :facepalm::)

[MorningFox]

The fact that they tell us earth curves at 0.666ft per mile and that the earth travels around the sun at 66,600mph should ring alarm bells for even the least astute people. It's fairly clear that the globe model, the idea that we are an insignificant place, one of trillions, along with the evolution deception, is clearly designed to convince people that we are an unimportant accident, and not a sacred creation. It's designed to instill materialism and a remove the belief in the creator.

[ExomatrixTV]

The "Flat Earth" PsyOp (and John B. Wells' brilliant take) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95559-The-Flat-Earth-PsyOp--and-John-B.-Wells-brilliant-take-)

[ExomatrixTV]

2D map that is used to represent a 3D Sphere you always have to be aware of this calibration. If I would draw a line on a photo of your body you KNOW that a flat 2D photo does NOT represent 100% 3D of you. It is a proximation of you (a way of thinking that YOU are actually "flat" on a photo but NOT in 3D reality. Any "conclusion" drawn from a 2D photo of you is not entirely perfect & flawless! So you always take in consideration that ANY 2D representation of a 3D world you have limitations in perceptions & partial insights but NOT "in full".

Am accused by Flat Earthers being "not open minded" ... My mind was LONG TIME OPEN ... to the point that realize they force you to "stay open" forever ... to serve their PsyOp (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95559-The-Flat-Earth-PsyOp--and-John-B.-Wells-brilliant-take-) forever ... no accountability for their claims, they do not want to understand how deep I have researched it with a HUGE OPEN MIND! ... Later accusing me having a "closed mind" is just so hilarious to me! ... All PsyOp tactics or just closed minded about my real open mindedness I had for over 2 years! ... I wasted so much time, I feel deeply ashamed!

Images (snapshots) from a weather balloon erratic moving footage using a CCD correcting chip Wide angle or fish-eye lens showing NEVER a continuous flat earth but only a brief moments because of the CCD chip correcting parts of what you see ... this CCD effect can also be seen if you move your own camera erratic way or moving in a special way that always will try to correct the images ARTIFICIALLY ... So in short CCD chips is KNOWN to alter what is viewed ... even on the ground done by yourself ... NO BIG DEAL ... Now the Flat Earthers using a KNOWN ccd anomaly as "evidence" what is 100% NOT evidence! ... If you use the Flat Earthers "logic" you can use the CCD chip effect to "prove" it is hollow or opposite round: like a huge valley! ... Why? ... Because it can ALSO bee seen during weather-balloon footage's ... you just pick the right moment of all the crazy ccd self-correcting artifacts anomalies and you can show that split second as "your evidence" (of what?) nothing!

Circle 360° degrees divided by 24 = "15° degrees Sun-movement per Hour" but can not work on a "Flat Earth Model' ... which is true: indeed "Flat Earthers Model" does not fit the facts of a TESTABLE REALITY ... what we just easily understandable deducted ourselves here

Ask any "Flat Earther" a SIMPLE QUESTION:

We can see the Sun moving 15 degrees per Hour (360 degrees divided by 24) everyone can test if that is true themselves ... DOES THE SUN MOVE 15 DEGREES PER HOUR! ... if yes ... that will never ever work on a Flat Earth Model ... checkmate!

I wonder if we have any "Secret Flat Earthers" in our mids ... I highly doubt it, but if there are some, they have to be really new members as most who are long time members know by now how to apply real discernment skills ... This is what I really like about Project Avalon Forum having higher standards by default. That does not mean everything is "set in stone" especially when something is (highly) controversial. Most who suffer "low attention span disorder" will have to admit that it is a short-coming an incompetence dealing with deep subjects.

https://projectavalon.net/John_Kuhles_DoNotTolerate.gif



When you zoom in long enough enough on a basketball every mm is like a flat existence for that square mm.

I have an interesting and sincere question:

If the size of the Globe (Earth Sphere) would be scaled down to a basketball ... how big would the ant be walking on that basketball (symbolizing Earth) in comparison? ... I think bigger than the Eiffel Tower!

Study all my Facebook Posts using hashtag #FlatEarthPsyOp Posts Exposing all "Flat Earthers" memes!

The world's smallest ant is called the Thief Ant, measuring between 1/20 and 1/32 of an inch long. That's between 1.25 and 0.75 millimeters. (Tiny!)

Here it is:

http://projectavalon.net/Thief_Ant.gif

So to scale, if it's 1.25 to 0.75 mm long, it'll be about 0.4 mm high. That's just an approximation, of course.

Meanwhile, a basketball is 24.26 cm in diameter. That represents the earth, the diameter of which is 12,756 km (at the equator).

12,756 km is 1,275,600,000 centimeters. So the scale factor here for the basketball-sized model earth is 1,275,600,000 / 24.26 = 1:52,580,000. (approximately!)

So scaled up to be on the real earth, our tiny ant (let's take the very tiniest version) would be 52,580,000x as long as 0.75 mm, and 52,580,000x as high as 0.4 mm.

That's 39,435,000 mm long and 21,032,000 mm high.

In kilometers, that's 39.4 km long, and 21 km high. (In American and English! 24.5 miles x 13 miles.)

MUCH higher than the Eiffel Tower. And that's the absolute smallest ant there is. Regular ants would be 100 miles long. :)


I can talk for hours non-stop to disprove all flat-earth assumptions from memory not using any notes ... as I am Asperger (extreme eye for detail visually & audio memory) studied most "Flat Earth (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95559-The-Flat-Earth-PsyOp--and-John-B.-Wells-brilliant-take-)" Videos & Articles years ago after some F.E. people pushed me & "challenged" me multiple times.

But one that stands out (empirical evidence):

Everybody can put a stick in the ground when the Sun is shining (no clouds) and study the shadow movement each hour ... that turns out to be 15 degrees change per hour!! ... Which makes perfect sense for a globe as 24 times 15 degrees = 360 degrees (= Full Circle) ... when you study Flat Earth Model ("theory") ... and imagine you would put a stick in the ground analyzing the shadow of that model IT WILL NOT PRODUCE 15 degrees change per hour ... period!

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b60c42eec29a264004d17eb16712d4de.webp

This alone should wake up any "Flat Earther (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95559-The-Flat-Earth-PsyOp--and-John-B.-Wells-brilliant-take-)" unless they do not want to use any brain cells and rather stick to endless flawed "reasoning" being debunked over and over and over. So sad. Wasting our times exposing an obvious PsyOp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare) and all victims who are falling for it helping to discredit anyone who is in to genuine conspiracy research. So many times I heard "5G protesters are like Flat Earthers" or "Any Exposing The Great Reset Agenda2030 are like "Flat Earthers" etc. etc. etc. It perfectly fits/serves to downplay all real conspiracy research.


Please study this Project Avalon Forum Thread: tinyurl.com/FlatEarthPsyop (http://tinyurl.com/FlatEarthPsyop) (updated!)

After studying this link nobody can claim: "I did not know it was that bad!"


How would we know. Is it round, I don't know.

Have you ever asked anyone how to know for sure WHY The Earth is a globe? ... Because that has been answered so many times, it is not funny anymore ... Most is common sense + logic + empirical evidence that actually works you can test yourself (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115588-HOAX-The-Lost-History-of-Flat-Earth-What-on-Earth-Happened&p=1438843&viewfull=1#post1438843) which disproves "Flat Earth Model Theory" in a heartbeat.

David Icke uses the "Holographic Universe Principle" to allow us to focus on much more important things and let it be one way or the other and move on... NOT because he is a "Flat Earther" he isn't ... In my view he is trying to be "diplomatic" about it hoping we can "get along" .. Meanwhile, all serious conspiracy research is discredited, connecting it to those who also believe in crazy "Flat Earth theories". Even if we can show we are NOT Flat Earthers most who read the hit-peaces against us have no time to check the validity of the sold claims. So they assume we all are "nuts". (MSM Psywar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare) mission accomplished!).


--o-O-o--


https://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png Posted by Richter (here) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1485246#post1485246)
I believe anything!

Every questionnaire/poll or journalists that use the "do you believe?" question ... falsely assumes there is "nothing to know" ... "nothing to experience" ... nothing to investigate, because "it's just a belief" :facepalm:

In my view to "beLIEve" is not the same as "knowing for sure" ... every-time when I read/hear someone say "believe" I do not have to debate nor "correct" it ... because the person already explained it does not need to know for sure ... they just want to believe stuff.

In general, I am not in the mood to make something "more believable" as that is highly subjective.





In my view, this Project Avalon Forum Thread saved so many not to fall in the PsyOp trap!

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳
I have used this thread myself. I have shared it often to try and reason with the all the recent 'flat earthers' that I speak with:
those souls are usually the newly awakened and searching through all the conspiracies for life's meaning!
Quite often those souls are found at 'Stand In The Park' anti-vac gatherings on Sunday mornings.
I kinda understand why it happens, as I have been there myself when I was younger and searching for meanings . Some of the arguments for FE theories are quite compelling especially for those newly awoke as they dig deeper into rabbit holes.

Keep up the good work John!


Your Welcome :)

Most "Neutrals" who do not decide to go either way ... can best be educated using below quote of mine to debunk the "Flat Earth Model Theory" in a super simple & super self-exploratory way:

...and I quote myself here:

"Anybody living on Earth can use a stick and stick it in a ground to let it make a shadow when the Sun shines ... then measuring how much degrees it changes every hour ... than you realize it is 15 degrees per hour no matter where you are ... Now why do you think 15 degrees change per hour is so super significant?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/144XnK7nySQ/hqdefault.jpg

360 degrees (circle) divided by 24 = 15 degrees! ... this super duper obvious insight means that can never work on a "Flat Earth Model" (Theory) ... you can talk in to infinity trying to explain Flat Earth "Calculus Model" ... but it does not fly with real life empirical evidence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence) we all can test/experiment ourselves the moment we have a sunny day" ... unquote

1 day has 24 Hours ... 1 hour = 15 degree change of the Sun-shadow of a pole you stick in the ground leaving a shadow when on a Sunny day! ...

24 times 15 = 360! ... and what is 360 degrees per 24 hours? ... A circle ... and you can not make an animation where you have 15 degrees per hour change anywhere on a "Flat Earth Model" ... That is a fact!

"Do the math" :beer: even if you are not good in math you still can see the logic I hope :bowing:

Using "Flat Earth Model" logic you suppose to see The Sun in Australia when you are in USA and visa versa ... Sun-set and Sun-rise is "alien" to them <<< Am not saying they claim that but all "Flat Earth Model animations" shows "rotating of the Sun" completely different than real reality! ... That is why I bring this up.

In the very early beginnings of Flat Earth Videos they even discuss that the Sun goes "smaller" and does not set ... not going down behind the horizon ... That alone is enough to LAUGH at them all in to infinity.


Many who are 100% sane will see all of this as a "waste of time" ... not realizing how many "neutrals" are tempted to be lured in to their pushed narratives. Thinking there is a "conspiracy".



I would not be surprised if some of the F.E. fanatics will say that math is a "Free Mason Conspiracy" lol :facepalm: (a common tactic) as they need endless distractions & excuses not to comprehend what is shared here.



most of all the above is taken from this: Project Avalon Forum Thread (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95559-The-Flat-Earth-PsyOp--and-John-B.-Wells-brilliant-take-)

DISCLAIMER: am fully aware that "The Sun" does not "move" in relation to The Earth but the rotation of the Earth gives the illusion that the Sun "moves" ... for practical reasons I decided to use the wording the "Sun moves" in relation to the shadow it casts at a stick you can put in the ground and analyzing the change of the shadow every hour which is explicably 15 degrees change ... as long teh Sun is visible and not hindered by clouds ... All "Flat Earth Models" do NOT work with a constant 15 degrees change per hour!


https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/v1/user/27474914.f5b631e7.160x160o.f6c78faaf102@2x.png (https://whynotnews.eu)

cheers,
John Kuhles (https://whynotnews.eu) aka 'ExomatrixTV'
January 30th, 2023 🦜🦋🌳

[Bill Ryan]

The fact that they tell us earth curves at 0.666ft per mile and that the earth travels around the sun at 66,600mph should ring alarm bells for even the least astute people.Spurious, at best.

The Earth's velocity round the sun is 66,616 mph, to the nearest 1 mph. In different units (and units are human conceptual creations and therefore entirely arbitrary), it's 29.78 km/sec or 107,208 km/hour.

The earth's curvature is approximately 8 inches per mile (which is where the "0.666" comes from). In most places, it's actually 7.98 inches per mile, i.e. 0.665 ft/mile. (And in different units, that's 0.125685 meters/kilometer, go figure.)

Someone might calculate it all in in nautical miles (which again are different) — or in rods, poles, chains and perches as well. :)

For anyone who might be interested, search for "flat earth" (in quotes, to preserve the phrase) in posts by username MorningFox.

Be careful! You're letting your flat-earthism show. That's nothing to be proud of.

[Brigantia]

As I have posted before... back in the day when kids on board were invited up to the cockpit to meet the captain, I went up there once on a night flight and through the cockpit window I saw the curvature of the earth in the distance. I can still picture it as it's the most amazing sight I have ever seen.

No one can ever convince me that the earth is flat.

[MorningFox]

The fact that they tell us earth curves at 0.666ft per mile and that the earth travels around the sun at 66,600mph should ring alarm bells for even the least astute people.Spurious, at best.

The Earth's velocity round the sun is 66,616 mph, to the nearest 1 mph. In different units (and units are human conceptual creations and therefore entirely arbitrary), it's 29.78 km/sec or 107,208 km/hour.

The earth's curvature is approximately 8 inches per mile (which is where the "0.666" comes from). In most places, it's actually 7.98 inches per mile, i.e. 0.665 ft/mile. (And in different units, that's 0.125685 meters/kilometer, go figure.)

Someone might calculate it all in in nautical miles (which again are different) — or in rods, poles, chains and perches as well. :)

For anyone who might be interested, search for "flat earth" (in quotes, to preserve the phrase) in posts by username MorningFox.

Be careful! You're letting your flat-earthism show. That's nothing to be proud of.

Excuse me? I don't think I've posted one single comment regarding flat earth before. I'm not a flat earther. Neither do I blindly believe what NASA and freemasons like Newton and Galileo have taught. Though thank you for confirming my numbers were correct.

I know you older lot are so deeply stuck in the heliocentric programming that you can't possibly fathom that it might not be true, so let's keep an open mind and allow free debate on the topic, shall we?

This place is a consciousness realm, a shared dream, not a physical rock in a physical world.

[MorningFox]

As I have posted before... back in the day when kids on board were invited up to the cockpit to meet the captain, I went up there once on a night flight and through the cockpit window I saw the curvature of the earth in the distance. I can still picture it as it's the most amazing sight I have ever seen.

No one can ever convince me that the earth is flat.

You couldn't possibly see the curvature from plane altitude. Planes windows are curved, that was almost certainly an illusion from the curved window. I'm not saying earth is flat, I'm just saying that you cannot see curvature from that altitude.

[Bill Ryan]

Excuse me? I don't think I've posted one single comment regarding flat earth before.

https://projectavalon.net/MorningFox_Flat-Earth_post_search.gif

https://projectavalon.net/MorningFox_Flat-Earth_posst.gif

[MorningFox]

Oh I see, my mistake. 6 years ago I made a couple of posts... Not asserting anything, but discussing the subject?

You have a problem with this, do you?

I thought this was a place full of open minded people but you're behaving like the brainwashed vaccinated, ridiculing and instantly cutting short any debate, already having made your mind up. The sign of a small mind. It's also the sign of your programming being challenged. Sad.

If you really believe that earth is spinning faster than the speed of sound, and you're not even open to discussing the possibility that might not be true, then there's nothing I can do for you.

This is the last place I expected to be treated like that, but now I know what kind of a man you are.

There isn't a single piece of evidence of a round earth and not one single photo of the whole thing in frame, aside from fish eye lense and Photoshop from NASA, so why do you believe so firmly what you believe?

[Brigantia]

You couldn't possibly see the curvature from plane altitude. Planes windows are curved, that was almost certainly an illusion from the curved window. I'm not saying earth is flat, I'm just saying that you cannot see curvature from that altitude.

You do on a night flight. I know, I've seen it.

Update to add - what have the windows got to do with it? In any case, it was only something small like a BAC 1-11 that were common then so the windows wouldn't be large. Travelling north-west to London at about 9pm, the horizon would have been backlit by the sun over the horizon.

Argue all you want, I know what I saw and my brothers remember it vividly too.

A further update, I found this on a search on curved windows - an engineer should know.

[MorningFox]

Through the curved windows?

For the record I'm not a flat earther. I just know we've been lied to about so much that I question everything. Unlike some here, it seems. Things can be seen on the horizon over and over again, far further away than they should if the earth is the shape we are told. Maybe it's round but much larger? Who knows... I don't see the harm in discussing it...

[Ernie Nemeth]

There isn't a single piece of evidence of a round earth and not one single photo of the whole thing in frame


https://flatearth.ws/real-earth-photos

[Pam]

What if...what if...it is both round and flat and nothing but a very sophisticated simulation, as Paramahansa Yogananda called it to the best of his description at the time in the 1930's I believe, a moving picture show?

Here is a simple, very simple observation I have made. I have 2 lovely coleus plants. They generally grow in warmer climates but they love the conditions of my bathroom with the good light and moisture from showers and such. They were never meant to be kept for a long time. Typically in my region they are a lovely addition to a hanging basket and sadly, they will die when it gets cold. I fell in love with their beauty so I put each one in a not very large pot with soil and kept them each on a separate counter in the bathroom. I have had them there in the same soil which isn't a huge amount for over 10 years. If I choose not to trim them they will grow huge and fully flower. Year after year. I hate it when I have to prune them but I can't have them take up the whole bathroom. They are in the same soil that I planted them with and they get water and occasionally a nutritional supplement. There is no logical way that much physical matter could be created from a little water and a drop or 2 of nutrients.It could not happen in the world as it is explained. A bit of water a a couple drop of nutrients and a whole lot of love towards these plants and they grow and grow. The soil level is the same......explain to me from your materialistic viewpoint how that works.

I have hundreds of simple little observations like this. We are so programmed we don't think anything of it. I suspect this will be an unpopular stance met with scorn. Morning Fox, I applaud your ability to speak as you see things. I am not a part of any flat earth"community" .It might be possible for an observer(a bit of consciousness) gets high enough and they would see a globe. It might be that the program is built so that the van allen belt is parameters of the simulation. I don't know and don't claim to.I am just here to observe and when things don't line up.....well, they don't line up. I have been wrong about a million things, and maybe I'm wrong here. But I see a ton of inconsistencies and this planet is based on inversion so you have yourself to rely on as to what is true.

I don't know for a fact what this experience is, I sure as heck am not buying the standard storyline.Even as a little kid the whole Darwinian thing seemed outrageous.
It's just one more lie...I admire your courage, Morning Fox. I gave one simple little observation, I have hundreds more, things that don't line up...

I hope we can keep this as a good natured discussion. This is an opportunity to show that we can agree to disagree...it would be a great example to the woke. There are more reading this than we are aware. I have no animosity to those that disagree with me and I would hope for the same respect.

[Delight]

Plenty of people have "proved" to themselves that the earth is Flat... NO,NO, IT IS PROVEN to be ROUND, a globe, and YOU are CRAZY. No, you are (stupid, controlled, programmed, idiotic). The Earth is a FLAT plane with ice walls!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are so convinced that they will disdain and possibly fight those seeing differently. This is the same with other issues and as the collective breaks apart, the minutiae that divides us as the mind locks onto its small piece of "truth" will increase IMO. There is a collective experience and a PERSONAL experience. The thing to be done about it is DECIDE what we consider of valuable and focus there and realize we WILL experience what we focus on and That IS That.

Neville Goddard is the source of my first recognition that Imagination is "God". Our own wonderful human imagination has created our world of perceived appearance. That people find confirmation of their bias is EXTRAORDINARY and IMPOSSIBLE if there is just some "reality out there" IMO.

Understanding the role of our own mental perception to collapse the wave of possible/probable into actual will be the zeitgeist of the Aquarian cycle. Some say we have entered this energetic already. I thought this is interesting.

S0SFlY--lcI

IMO what some call predictive programming is the insinuation of an idea and acceptance by enough minds that the collective experience BECOMES what is imagined in unison.

Here is an example from Robert Anton Wison/Discordianism


Intelligence Engineering Department
Robert Anton Wilson Archives (https://www.tekgnostics.com/raw.htm)
Operation mind**** (OM!) allegedly began as a Discordian prank, instigated by a beatnik named Kerry Wendell Thornley, in his many letters to Wilson. The gist of the prank was to start a rumor, in the “letters to the editor” page at Playboy, that a vast conspiracy existed, and controlled much of the nefarious happenings of the 1960’s and beyond. The perpetrators of this conspiracy, were none-other than the rascally Illuminati.

Wilson and Shea promptly incorporated OM! (as part of the prank) in their grand, conspiracy infused, ontological masterpiece. It was with the publication of this trilogy that the OM! mindvirus was exposed to a wider audience. Heads and Hackers alike, were turned on to the OM! culture-jamming concept during the 70’s and early 80’s.

But the thing is, no one is immune from the effects of operation mind****. Wilson was pulled into the high strangeness of illuminati plots, extra-terrestrial mind control, and other fortean phantasms. Wilson’s bemused objectivity, slowly but steadily gave way to his own paranoia. As the inevitable synchronicities accumulated, he began to believe his own fictions. This transformation was chronicled in Wilson's The Cosmic Trigger, which rivals Illuminatus! as one of his most influential works.

In fact, Wilson spent much of his later career attempting to figure out just what was real and what was a product of his own vivid imagination.

It was in his semi-autobiographical material that Wilson identified and labeled the descent into existential paranoia as: "Chapel Perilous." Borrowed from Arthurian legend, this occult term refers to a psychological state in which an individual cannot be certain whether they have been aided or hindered by some force outside the realm of the natural world, or whether what appeared to be supernatural interference was a product of their own vivid imagination. In Cosmic Trigger, Wilson acknowledges that being in this state leads the subject to become either stone paranoid or an agnostic... there is no third way.

[ExomatrixTV]

Oh I see, my mistake. 6 years ago I made a couple of posts... Not asserting anything, but discussing the subject?

You have a problem with this, do you?

I thought this was a place full of open minded people but you're behaving like the brainwashed vaccinated, ridiculing and instantly cutting short any debate, already having made your mind up. The sign of a small mind. It's also the sign of your programming being challenged. Sad.

If you really believe that earth is spinning faster than the speed of sound, and you're not even open to discussing the possibility that might not be true, then there's nothing I can do for you.

This is the last place I expected to be treated like that, but now I know what kind of a man you are.

There isn't a single piece of evidence of a round earth and not one single photo of the whole thing in frame, aside from fish eye lense and Photoshop from NASA, so why do you believe so firmly what you believe?


Are you aware that you just exposed yourself big time having multiple bogus assumptions! ... It is obvious to me, you play the "innocent" card without being innocent.

[Tintin]

As I have posted before... back in the day when kids on board were invited up to the cockpit to meet the captain, I went up there once on a night flight and through the cockpit window I saw the curvature of the earth in the distance. I can still picture it as it's the most amazing sight I have ever seen.

No one can ever convince me that the earth is flat.

You couldn't possibly see the curvature from plane altitude. Planes windows are curved, that was almost certainly an illusion from the curved window. I'm not saying earth is flat, I'm just saying that you cannot see curvature from that altitude.

Actually, you can see it.

I have,myself, in an aeroplane, about 38 years ago flying at around 35,000 feet (perhaps more) passing over the Indian sub-continent back to Blighty from Hong Kong. It's a very gradual curvature given Earth's circumference size so it's not as markedly defined as say viewing a football (soccer) ball from any given vantage point. (I nearly said from any side there, and then corrected myself :p).

[mojo]

Hi all,
Again I'm sorry if people are confusing this thread with flat earth theory. All I wanted was for people to watch the video and tell me where Patricks position is not validated. This comment above is right on and what Patrick Gunnels was saying.


Excuse me? I don't think I've posted one single comment regarding flat earth before. I'm not a flat earther. Neither do I blindly believe what NASA and freemasons like Newton and Galileo have taught. Though thank you for confirming my numbers were correct.

I know you older lot are so deeply stuck in the heliocentric programming that you can't possibly fathom that it might not be true, so let's keep an open mind and allow free debate on the topic, shall we?

This place is a consciousness realm, a shared dream, not a physical rock in a physical world.
PS. ... just noticed the thread was changed from myth & legend to known hoaxes.
That was a real surprise there were so many flat earth threads so thanks for sharing that. I have never contributed to any of those thread posts before this thread and I understand why the admin team might think flat earth is being pushed again. I'm only just beginning to open my mind to another possibility after being stuck in one narrative for so long, and never have been been a flat earth promoter before.

PSS: will go back to my original post and clarify, is Gunnels math about the horizon valid and in determining the earth shape?

[Pam]

Oh I see, my mistake. 6 years ago I made a couple of posts... Not asserting anything, but discussing the subject?

You have a problem with this, do you?

I thought this was a place full of open minded people but you're behaving like the brainwashed vaccinated, ridiculing and instantly cutting short any debate, already having made your mind up. The sign of a small mind. It's also the sign of your programming being challenged. Sad.

If you really believe that earth is spinning faster than the speed of sound, and you're not even open to discussing the possibility that might not be true, then there's nothing I can do for you.

This is the last place I expected to be treated like that, but now I know what kind of a man you are.

There isn't a single piece of evidence of a round earth and not one single photo of the whole thing in frame, aside from fish eye lense and Photoshop from NASA, so why do you believe so firmly what you believe?


Are you aware that you just exposed yourself big time having multiple bogus assumptions! It is obvious you play the "innocent" card without being innocent.




i am challanging my own request to not be disresprectful of those we disagree with..... you are putting me to the test.... still I refuse to be goaded in to your global material mentality. You are brilliant in so many areas don't let your ego be the thing that holds you back from what is before your eyes and ears. I have found that one can be brilliant in some aspects and a very poor thinker in other aspects. I see that in myself. There are some levels I would be called in old fashioned terms retarded. I have found that no matter how hard I practice these skills I don't improve. We all have blind spots or areas of not understanding.

[mojo]

We all have blind spots or areas of not understanding.

so true... and less than a week ago I would still have called flat earth theory not provable but then someone brings up math and challenges my poor math skills.

[Bill Ryan]

...my poor math skills.I think that may be part of the problem here.

A recommendation: go look up Eratosthenes. You don't actually have to do the calculations, but the concept of what he did is really easy to understand. (And that was 2,200 years ago, too.)

[Pam]

I must be naive, I don't understand how it is "obvious" how one plays the "innocent" card..????? What does that even mean. Really, if you are going to make that accusation against someone, I would appreciate understanding what that means..?????? aahmmmmm the innocent flat earth card?

[Mashika]

Here's a very very easy way to find out, the steps as simple

1. Go to Belarus, or Russia
2. Be ready to spend around 25,000 dollars
3. Be healthy, as able to endure several Gs and have no heart issues or any other possible brain issues that could cause you to pass out because of pressure or otherwise
4. Get on the plane and go see for yourself. Look out the window, it takes around 40 minutes to get there

Don't say " The camera took the images with some kind of effect" or "it was like a fish lense so it looks round', because it doesn't apply if you see the earth flat with your own eyes at ground level and several kilometers above, and then you see the sky above and the earth below and the earth looks round, and then you see how everything works, how fast you go from one point to another and how fast you find yourself 'floating' before letting gravity 'drag you down', then you see how fast and how crazy the plane will fall down into earth and how fast the curvature goes away

But do take pictures and share them! Also don't take anyone's word for it, go see for yourself, it's that simple, no wonder or conspiracy or arguments anymore, Just Do It (@NIke)

Advice: Make sure you are able to endure "weightlessness" for a while, which causes sometimes to throw up. Bring your paper box if you can't... lol because you will have to go through it one way or another, 100%

O3berbDxzFs
eGHKYRL8UQ4

[Pam]

I love your brilliant mind, Mashika. In my case, I am not debating that we on some pancake floating out in the sky. I just believe that this is a simulation. How I picture it, and of course I don't know how accurate this is.

I know I did not create the idea of simulation theory, I had no plan to embrace any of it. But things don't add up and when things don't add up for me I begin asking questions.



D6_ZC6BywXs



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRcIFwFZeU8&t=21s

To the best of my intuitive ability we have been provided with a valuable clue through the "Hunger Games"


Living in a isolation state much of the time allows me to observe things, I would not normally see.... I am in many ways that this place has become so ridiculous. It just makes truth and common sense all the easier to see.

In many ways, it doesn't matter. But if you can play utilize the rules of the program, it is beneficial.....


I also wonder, if I am correct how many sentient player are there. It would be just as simple I suspect to put each player in their own game but that might not be the point of the whole thing.

There is so much freedom in being willing to be the "fool".

I am not bound to any specific ideology, I just go where my experiences and intuition lead me.

[ExomatrixTV]

There is even a Navy "over the horizon, radar" video proving the conditions that can only be explained correctly if the earth is not flat ... and I can go on and on and on ... sigh :ohwell:

[Bill Ryan]

I love your brilliant mind, Mashika. In my case, I am not debating that we on some pancake floating out in the sky. I just believe that this is a simulation. Even if it's a simulation (which it may or may not be), that actually doesn't change a thing. (Literally!)

The simulated experiencer's body in the simulated MiG-29 (having paid their simulated $25,000), still goes up to a simulated 60,000 ft and sees the curvature of the simulated earth with their simulated eyes. :)

Any universal simulation necessarily incorporates all the known (and even not-yet-known) laws of physics, as well as every moment of our human experience. A simulation would create 'reality' exactly as we experience it (by definition!), whether it's Eratosthenes with his ingenious experiment so long ago, or GPS satellites orbiting the earth that enable you to arrive where you're intending to go when you're in a strange city in your car.

It's a little like the argument for solipsism... that you (Pam!) are the only being in the universe, creating and imagining everything that there is. That also may or may not be true — but pragmatically it affects nothing at all.

[Pam]

There is even a Navy "over the horizon, radar" video proving the conditions that can only be explained correctly if the earth is not flat ... and I can go on and on and on ... sigh :ohwell: Don't forget, we live on the inversion planet. Who know what the hell the Navy "over the horizon radar" is, does it exist or is it just a another way to scam us out of any money we have left? You can go on with more US propaganda? And even if you did prove all this fancy, pricey equiptment exists it could all be within the realm of the simulation, I would expect that is the least they could come up with.

Up unto a couple of years ago, you might hear me spouting out "it's FDA approved". As if that is a confirmation of safety. I knew they were corrupt I didn't see the depth....

All I can say is to be willing to go all the way, wherever what I perceive to be true, follow it. Align with it. And what have I got for all my efforts, the badge of nut case of the week. That's ok. I will start worrying when I start to fit in and I am embraced or honored on this planet.

[ExomatrixTV]

The Flat Earther That Proved The Earth Curved! :pound:


jl-uYf622J4


starts at 1:46 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl-uYf622J4&t=106s)

[ExomatrixTV]

There is even a Navy "over the horizon, radar" video proving the conditions that can only be explained correctly if the earth is not flat ... and I can go on and on and on ... sigh :ohwell: Don't forget, we live on the inversion planet. Who know what the hell the Navy "over the horizon radar" is, does it exist or is it just a another way to scam us out of any money we have left? You can go on with more US propaganda? And even if you did prove all this fancy, pricey equiptment exists it could all be within the realm of the simulation, I would expect that is the least they could come up with.

Up unto a couple of years ago, you might hear me spouting out "it's FDA approved". As if that is a confirmation of safety. I knew they were corrupt I didn't see the depth....

All I can say is to be willing to go all the way, wherever what I perceive to be true, follow it. Align with it. And what have I got for all my efforts, the badge of nut case of the week. That's ok. I will start worrying when I start to fit in and I am embraced or honored on this planet.


There are so many different types of "over-the-horizon radar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar)" technologies in almost all advanced (100+) countries and all of them KNOW the earth is not flat IF you know the science of it ... but that is the crux most want to have assumptions first and not studying the hard data in multiple languages from multiple countries knowing exactly what it does and why it works!

There is NOBODY of the 100,000s of people who have deep knowledge how "over-the-horizon radar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar)" technologies in almost all advanced (100+) countries that came forward to explain "the Earth is flat" because they know how real science work in dozens of different cultures & languages independent form each-other. Nothing is "leaked" ... nor anyone came forward use the insights of "over-the-horizon radar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar)" technology really works to explain "flat earth" theories ever!


This kind of science is ultra important for so many reasons!

[Mashika]

There is even a Navy "over the horizon, radar" video proving the conditions that can only be explained correctly if the earth is not flat ... and I can go on and on and on ... sigh :ohwell: Don't forget, we live on the inversion planet. Who know what the hell the Navy "over the horizon radar" is, does it exist or is it just a another way to scam us out of any money we have left? You can go on with more US propaganda? And even if you did prove all this fancy, pricey equiptment exists it could all be within the realm of the simulation, I would expect that is the least they could come up with.

Up unto a couple of years ago, you might hear me spouting out "it's FDA approved". As if that is a confirmation of safety. I knew they were corrupt I didn't see the depth....

All I can say is to be willing to go all the way, wherever what I perceive to be true, follow it. Align with it. And what have I got for all my efforts, the badge of nut case of the week. That's ok. I will start worrying when I start to fit in and I am embraced or honored on this planet.

If we live on a simulation, then spending time wondering if the earth is a pancake floating around or if there are tortoises all the way down would be very meaningless, and a complete waste of effort and time better spent trying to figure out the simulation

So just spending some hours trying to figure out why the earth is flat goes around all logic. You can't prove it at all because one way or another we are in a simulation, so it may be that you go up there and look down and depending on the simulation programming you got, you:

1. See a giant pancake floating below
2. See a giant round object just there, and it has all the properties you were always told it would have

Then you go down and tell either side of the story to anyone who wants to listen. Nobody who believes contrary to you will accept your version of it, and pictures or videos will be a 'setup and part of the conspiracy'


Regardless of what side you end up being, you are now, in the eyes of the other side, 'an agent of the matrix'

[ExomatrixTV]

https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2017/01/06/23/21/soap-bubble-1959327_960_720.jpg

[warning sarcasm (https://pics.me.me/the-awkward-moment-when-your-sarcasm-is-so-advanced-people-12342180.png) ahead alert:]

"Flat Atoms" ... "flat Soap Bubbles" ... "flat Moon" ... "flat Mars" ... "flat Venus" ... "flat Jupiter" ... "flat Sun" ... "flat Stars in Galaxies" ... 5,297+ confirmed "flat Exoplanets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoplanet)" ... and all of them are actually not flat, but who cares if we live in a "simulation (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118634-Archaix-youtube-channel)" right?


You have to have a "flat brain" for not seeing the bigger picture here.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Delight]

who cares if we live in a "simulation" right?
You have to have a "flat brain" for not seeing the bigger picture here.

I m not sure what you mean by "flat brain".... who has the flat brain and what is the bigger picture YOU mean to infer? Are you antagonistic to something being suggested by flatters? Or am I misreading? Why should we argue over this so hard? Is THAT tendency to argue over ideas we hold dear trolling us so we will never get beyond the "this or that" dichotomy?

In the model of the torus earth energy body, there right about at the equator, one sees the disc as a horizontal layer. The world is NOT what we think with our sensory perception.

https://imgs.search.brave.com/sGgbTHbNMCzaCD2rYfHzatEo9d_lRo9IwLE5vYO7z8o/rs:fit:600:700:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly80LmJw/LmJsb2dzcG90LmNv/bS8taG5SZ3NEZXZT/S0EvV1dybzZMYk1x/RkkvQUFBQUFBQUFD/c0UvN1Q1Z3o2SjU4/Y0loS1c5enhXNkV0/N0NiLTFiUExReGtR/Q0xjQkdBcy9zMTYw/MC90b3J1cy1lbmVy/Z3ktZmllbGQzLmdp/Zg.gif

I just love David Icke. Here talking to Sherri Tennpenny this am (1/30/2023) (https://clouthub.com/v/1bb056df-18d9-4a99-8e15-b8662d4ae16a) and as he describes the purpose for us... to exude loosh of the harrowed kind for the beings who slurp up discordant frequency, I sense the discord in all our insistence on arguing from our very BASIC limitations.

[MorningFox]

The close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule from members here is no different to the close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule of the pro covid vaccine crowd.

Utterly disgraceful.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



There isn't a single piece of evidence of a round earth and not one single photo of the whole thing in frame


https://flatearth.ws/real-earth-photos

If you believe that then there is no hope in even having a debate with you. The earth looks completely different in every image, and the continents are different sizes in each one 😂

These have been debunked many times. Again, I'm not saying the earth is flat... or round... but these photos are all photoshop composites. NASA even admits it regarding their ones.

Having this discussion here is exactly the same as having the vaccine discussion with those brainwashed by the TV into thinking it's healthy. It's like trying to play chess with a pigeon, I'm the idiot for even trying.

[Bill Ryan]

The close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule from members here is no different to the close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule of the pro covid vaccine crowd.

Utterly disgraceful.Well, thank you for all your pleasant comments, which seem to be in much the same vein. :)

Would you like to comment on Mashika's post (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120473-Not-flat-earth-but...&p=1540855&viewfull=1#post1540855)about the MiG-29 flight to 60,000 ft? I'd asked her privately if she could write something about that, thinking it might possibly be helpful and interesting.

[ExomatrixTV]

Don't say " The camera took the images with some kind of effect" or "it was like a fish lense so it looks round', because it doesn't apply if you see the earth flat with your own eyes at ground level and several kilometers above, and then you see the sky above and the earth below and the earth looks round, and then you see how everything works, how fast you go from one point to another and how fast you find yourself 'floating' before letting gravity 'drag you down', then you see how fast and how crazy the plane will fall down into earth and how fast the curvature goes away



What if "flat earthers" accuse "globe people" having two "fish eyes" in thier heads ... that would be the ultimate nail in the coffin of spreading bs assumptions ;)

[mojo]

This thread opened my eyes in many ways not for any reason about flat earth. We truly are a microcosm of ideas & attitudes. In over 5000 posts I brought up many crazy theories and ideas.

[DeDukshyn]

The close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule from members here is no different to the close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule of the pro covid vaccine crowd.

Utterly disgraceful.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



There isn't a single piece of evidence of a round earth and not one single photo of the whole thing in frame


https://flatearth.ws/real-earth-photos

If you believe that then there is no hope in even having a debate with you. The earth looks completely different in every image, and the continents are different sizes in each one 😂

These have been debunked many times. Again, I'm not saying the earth is flat... or round... but these photos are all photoshop composites. NASA even admits it regarding their ones.

Having this discussion here is exactly the same as having the vaccine discussion with those brainwashed by the TV into thinking it's healthy. It's like trying to play chess with a pigeon, I'm the idiot for even trying.

The difference in appearance re: size of continents etc. can easily be a result of distance from earth the photo was taken and field of view of the camera. I'm a photographer, and I can tell you that taking a photo of an object from 100 feet with a zoom lens and taking a picture of the same object from 1 ft with a wide angle lens will allow for roughly the same size presentation of the object in the image, but what you see and how you see it are vastly different between the images.

When you are in low earth orbit (ISS orbits at ~340km), the ratio between the size of the earth (~6400km dia) and the distance from it is extremely large (Image a sphere 6400km across, now imagine something 340km away from it) - to the point that you either need to take a large number of images and create a composite from those images using something like say, photoshop, or, you need to use an extremely wide angle fisheye lense which will distort the image greatly - those are the only two choices). Also at that distance you will only be able to see about 7% of the earth's surface at best - so that's all you would be able to see in an image of the earth taken at this altitude.

From a distance of high earth orbit, ~36,000km, you are about 6x the distance from the earth as its diameter, so from that distance the earth looks much farther away and if you photograph from that distance you can use a regular lens on your camera and capture about 40% of the earth's surface. It makes an entirely different type, and different looking picture - just as my example about using my camera to take a zoom image or a wide field of view one - same effect.

From the moon, a distance of ~385,000km you are ten times further away than high earth orbit. From here the earth looks smallish in the sky and you need to actually zoom in on it to take a photo - from this distance with zoom you would capture ~50% of the earth's surface.

There's a massive difference in a photo that can capture 5% of the earth's surface compared to one that can capture 40% or 50% of the earth's surface, and yes, composite photos of the earth ARE stitched together in image software when photos are taken from low earth orbit, that seek to avoid the massive distortion you get with fisheye lenses, and yes some photos are taken with fisheye lenses that capture massively distorted photos.

None of this is evidence that the earth isn't round, it IS evidence that the laws of spatial and light physics, (part of the same group of laws that state the earth should be a sphere), are functioning perfectly healthily and as expected.

I understand how someone might not be able to know this, but when you understand scale, perspective (as an artist perhaps I have an advantage here), and you understand photography, there is nothing in the photos that aren't easily explained by mundane reasoning.

To visually see what I am talking about, click into this image below (twice if needed for full size) and look at the differences between low earth orbit, where the ISS and other space stations and satellites orbit, and high earth orbit, where geosynchronous satellites orbit. I added in two gold triangles (find them both) that a camera from each distance would capture. It's vastly different! To have an expectation that all photos of earth taken from space should look the same, or that composites should not be made is completely in error.

50367

[Bill Ryan]

[ ... a long and detailed post that must have taken 20 minutes to write ... ]It won't make any difference!

[DeDukshyn]

[ ... a long and detailed post that must have taken 20 minutes to write ... ]It won't make any difference!

Haha ... well, maybe if it re-affirms anything to anyone on the fence or who knows the earth is a sphere, but also wonders why the photos don't look all the same, it was worth the time. :)

[mojo]

Hi & thanks it will make a difference to me. I haven't chosen a side. My inquiry comes from a question in wondering if math can be used to help answer or support either side.

[Bill Ryan]

My inquiry comes from a question in wondering if math can be used to help answer or support either side.Math enabled you to write that post and make it visible for others. Math is what makes your car start when you turn the key. Math is what gets $$$ in your hand when you go to the ATM. Math is what kept the plane in the sky the last time you flew.

There's lots of math available to help you figure it all out. A bump of my earlier reply to you:


A recommendation: go look up Eratosthenes. You don't actually have to do the calculations, but the concept of what he did is really easy to understand. (And that was 2,200 years ago, too.)

[mojo]

Thanks Bill, I checked it out & pretty much is the mainstream & what everyone believed after the Renaissance Although it was interesting or timely to see this...




Welcome to the Eratosthenes Experiment platform!

Register by creating your account (Registration is now open). If you have already created one in the past, just log in and check "Yes" in the "I want to participate in Eratosthenes Experiment March 2023" participation box.
Come in contact with a registered school at the same longitude with you (this info will be provided to you by the organizing team)
Join efforts with the matching school and record your data
Calculate the circumference of the Earth
Submit your data
The Eratosthenes experiment March 2023 will take place on the March equinox day, Tuesday the 21st of March

[DeDukshyn]

Hi & thanks it will make a difference to me. I haven't chosen a side. My inquiry comes from a question in wondering if math can be used to help answer or support either side.

There was a guy on the forum a while back, can't recall his name ... and together we went about using some complex math to try to prove the earth was flat (not that I believed that, but its funny how its very often easier to show the truth by trying to prove yourself wrong, than trying to prove yourself right - try it - try to prove the earth is a sphere instead of trying to prove that its not - results will probably be enlightening).

We took a set of long distance photographs to try to discount curvature of the earth. After calculating in atmospheric light refraction, expected curvature if it was a sphere vs expected results if it was flat, the evidence mounted for it it being a sphere. Not that it should take all that work - but in the end I had helped convert a flat earther. It was well worth all the effort, lol.

The math 100% supports the earth not being flat. You might find small bits of math here and there that casts doubt, but when you look at the math that actually counts, and the totality of all the calculations, its not a question anymore. I can personally debunk almost any "reasoning" someone comes up with for it being flat - the problem is, as Bill indicated above, is that people don't care for evidence because they want their beliefs to be right - so they will just disbelieve the evidence because it doesn't align with their beliefs. I have heard a flat earth keep saying "yeah but what about this!? Yeah but what about this!? Or this!?" - when one of those debunkings should have made them pause to think. No thinking however, seemed to be involved.

That is not science. That is cult like brainwashing. Even dismissing one debunking of the reasons - for example, this reasoning: "The continents are different sizes in the photos! They used a fisheye lens! They made a composite image!" should cast doubt on the ability of the people making that reasoning on their ability to reason. Like I said, for me, the explanations are so incredibly simple and extremely mundane - when you know enough truth. Not knowing enough truth to reason properly, therefore, MUST cast doubt on any of the reasoning by those same people herein.

If I say this rock contains no metal, because I don't see any evidence of metal, I hook up electrodes and it conducts no electricity - all I see is rock, then, someone, through scientific process proves to me that the rock contains metal, I have to admit I know jack-sh!t about which rocks contain metal or not, and the reasoning I used is wholly inadequate to come to any truthful conclusion. For some reason, flat earthers refuse to do this, and this is further telling of their ability to properly reason. Asking questions is fine, ignoring sound reasoning out of ignorance, or desire to disbelieve betrays cult-like susceptibilities.

[Strat]

It's driving me crazy that I can't remember where this documentary came from. If memory serves me correctly, it was basically a documentary that followed flat Earthers. At the end of the doc, they set up an experiment to prove it was flat, but instead proved it to be round.

(Less than 1 minute)
hWbqSCt8UUk

[MorningFox]

The close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule from members here is no different to the close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule of the pro covid vaccine crowd.

Utterly disgraceful.Well, thank you for all your pleasant comments, which seem to be in much the same vein. :)

Would you like to comment on Mashika's post (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120473-Not-flat-earth-but...&p=1540855&viewfull=1#post1540855)about the MiG-29 flight to 60,000 ft? I'd asked her privately if she could write something about that, thinking it might possibly be helpful and interesting.

I merely responded in kind. I thought this place was full of open minded individuals but the responses here to my perfectly polite discussion, were indeed disgraceful.

Regarding the video... It's a fish eye lense. The horizon is curved when they are barely above the ground :lol:... and the horizon becomes concave when below centre of the frame, which suggests the horizon is perfectly flat if a normal lense was used. By your logic then, is this proof that the horizon is concave half the time? I'm genuinely trying to fathom your line of reasoning here. That video is the furthest thing from evidence of your argument I could possibly imagine.

[MorningFox]

It's driving me crazy that I can't remember where this documentary came from. If memory serves me correctly, it was basically a documentary that followed flat Earthers. At the end of the doc, they set up an experiment to prove it was flat, but instead proved it to be round.

(Less than 1 minute)
hWbqSCt8UUk

... and this one is a random, mostly dark and non-viewable video of a few blokes inferring that a light cannot be seen. THAT's your proof? Genuinely that's all you have? I mean, if that's all you need to be convinced, I could probably convince you that Santa Clause exists :lol:

Nevermind, your paradigm is perfectly safe. I've learnt my lesson here to not try to even bother. If you're unable to discuss new ideas here, then this is not the place for me.

Anyone who claims they know for a fact that the earth is round is just as foolish as anyone who claims for a fact that they know it's flat.

Unless you've been to space and seen it with your own eyes of course. If not, I suggest some humility and an open mind.

[Strat]

It's driving me crazy that I can't remember where this documentary came from. If memory serves me correctly, it was basically a documentary that followed flat Earthers. At the end of the doc, they set up an experiment to prove it was flat, but instead proved it to be round.

(Less than 1 minute)
hWbqSCt8UUk

... and this one is a random, mostly dark and non-viewable video of a few blokes inferring that a light cannot be seen. THAT's your proof? Genuinely that's all you have? I mean, if that's all you need to be convinced, I could probably convince you that Santa Clause exists :lol:

Nevermind, your paradigm is perfectly safe. I've learnt my lesson here to not try to even bother. If you're unable to discuss new ideas here, then this is not the place for me.

Well aren't you a little ray of sunshine. You're not asking me questions, so I wont answer. If this puts me into a 'brainwashed round earther' category then so be it.

I do genuinely have a question, and believe it or not I'm not taking a shot at you, I'm truly curious. You are not convinced the earth is flat or round. What is your opinion? Like assign a percentage of which shape the earth most likely is, like if you had to bet all your money. 50% it's round or less? What are your thoughts, you don't need to provide any evidence I'm just curious given your research what you think.

[XelNaga]

The close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule from members here is no different to the close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule of the pro covid vaccine crowd.

Utterly disgraceful.Well, thank you for all your pleasant comments, which seem to be in much the same vein. :)

Would you like to comment on Mashika's post (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120473-Not-flat-earth-but...&p=1540855&viewfull=1#post1540855)about the MiG-29 flight to 60,000 ft? I'd asked her privately if she could write something about that, thinking it might possibly be helpful and interesting.

I merely responded in kind. I thought this place was full of open minded individuals but the responses here to my perfectly polite discussion, were indeed disgraceful.

Regarding the video... It's a fish eye lense. The horizon is curved when they are barely above the ground :lol:... and the horizon becomes concave when below centre of the frame, which suggests the horizon is perfectly flat if a normal lense was used. By your logic then, is this proof that the horizon is concave half the time? I'm genuinely trying to fathom your line of reasoning here. That video is the furthest thing from evidence of your argument I could possibly imagine.

Brother, you keep talking **** about this forum and members of this forum, but from what I have seen here, it is you who doesn't seem to belong here.

One should have an open mind, absolutely, but you seem to have an open head, and I'm afraid your mind has fallen out.

So sad.

[MorningFox]

The fact that the only evidence anyone can provide so far is a fish eye lense video and nonsense video of a few random people saying they can't see a light, implies it's certainly not easy to be certain, doesn't it?

There isn't a single proof of a round earth. Only Photoshop and fish eye lense. Only freemasons are allowed 'into space'. If you could really go up there then there would be a huge industry. People would be monopolising on space travel. Richard Branson promised space tourism decades ago but of course nothing came to fruition.

Time and time again objects can be seen on the horizon far further than they should be if the earth is the size and shape they say it is. I've verified this for myself. You can too. Every time this happens the sceptics only explanation is that it's a mirage. Basically it's magic 😂

There are multiple independent balloons that have been sent up there, that didn't use fish eye lense, which shows the horizon perfectly flat and rising to eye (lense) level. Impossible on a ball.

The fact that the sun gets SMALLER as it sets, there are many videos online you can find of this. Literally impossible if we're orbiting it in the system they tell us we are.

The reflection of the sun on the sea suggests it's flat, not round. You can recreate this phenomena yourself. It shouldn't be a straight line reflection if the earth is curved, it should be a spot, but it's only ever a straight line reflection.

Ships don't disappear over the horizon, high level zoom cameras have proven that it's perspective and with enough zoom they can be brought back into view.

Eclipses prove we're being lied to. Never once has the moon been seen before or after an eclipse. Just a black shape covering the sun. Most likely this is the black sun or Rahu in Hindu mythology.

If you believe the official story as to how our solar system was formed, the chances that the moon is EXACTLY the same size as the sun on an eclipse is statistically beyond impossible. It's just foolish to believe this is chance.

Every single video NASA and other space agencies put out is using a fish eye lense. Every single blue marble image of earth they've put out is different to the other, with continents being different sizes on each one. Some of them having exactly the same cloud formations, proving it's Photoshop. The official blue marble images from NASA show countries lit up by the sun at the same time that are never in full daylight at the same time.

The fact that a full moon is lit 100% from edge to edge without any gradient is physically impossible on a sphere. No sphere on earth looks like that. Ever. All 3D balls have a gradient of light with a lighter area and a darker edge, so that you can tell they're 3D. The moon does not.

The idea that gravity is a force pulling everything to earth but the moon stays in orbit is questionable at best. The idea that we only ever see one side of an orbiting moon is too.

'Craters' on the moon are all perfectly spherical, which means that every single asteroid would have had to come in at a perfect 90 degree angle.

The fact that direct sunlight is warmer than the shade, where as direct moonlight is COOLER than the shade. This suggests the moon gives off it's own light, rather than reflecting the sun's light.

The fact that every single rocket NASA sends up has an arc that very obviously doesn't go into space but comes back down to earth.

The fact that there are multiple satellites that have crashed in remote places and have balloons on them. The fact that NASA is the largest user of helium on earth.

The fact that every single part of the moon landing footage is very obviously fake to anyone with a brain.

The fact they haven't gone back in 70 years, and tell us they can't go back because they lost the technology.

The fact that all the telemetry data from the moon landings was 'lost'.

The fact that every ancient culture, with far superior technology and wisdom, believed the earth was a flat realm with the heavenly worlds above and the nightmare realms below. And only in the last few hundred years, since the deception has been the greatest, have proven freemasons told us it's round.

The idea that we are a meaningless accident on just one world of trillions is a very obvious deception to hide God and creation from the people. This is a prison, and if people believe there is nowhere else to go, that's a very easy way to contain them.

The fact that there is only one magnetic pole, and many schools of mysticism believed that at the centre of the earth was mount meru, the magnetic mountain from which creation pours out.

The fact that almost all world maps pre 1700s show the north pole to be a black mountain with four green landmasses around it with four rivers coming from the centre, just as the Bible describes.

Admiral Richard Byrd went to the Antarctic and came back saying there is a landmass the size of America there with tropical climates. Most people are so stuck in the heliocentric model that they rationalise that he must have gone into a hollow earth, but it's far more rational to suppose there is simply more land they are hiding from us.

The fact that no one is allowed to go and explore the antarctic and despite decades of wars and disagreements, every country has kept their agreement of the antarctic treaty and stopped people from going and exploring freely.

All of these things suggest we are being lied to about the very nature of our realm.

To not only blindly believe without question what you were taught in school, but also to ridicule and dismiss anyone that wants to discuss the possibility of it not being true, is pure foolishness. And if you're offended by me saying that, then maybe that's because you recognise an element of truth in it.

Here is an image dump of some of the images I've saved over the years, to illustrate some of my points. As we all know... a picture tells a thousand words.

Question everything, my friends.

[MorningFox]

...and the last few it didn't let me include...

https://i.imgur.com/0kw24xs.png

https://i.imgur.com/6VFOr1C.png

https://i.imgur.com/OA2HFa6.png

https://i.imgur.com/8Cj1QMD.png

[palehorse]

You couldn't possibly see the curvature from plane altitude. Planes windows are curved, that was almost certainly an illusion from the curved window. I'm not saying earth is flat, I'm just saying that you cannot see curvature from that altitude.

You do on a night flight. I know, I've seen it.

Update to add - what have the windows got to do with it? In any case, it was only something small like a BAC 1-11 that were common then so the windows wouldn't be large. Travelling north-west to London at about 9pm, the horizon would have been backlit by the sun over the horizon.

Argue all you want, I know what I saw and my brothers remember it vividly too.

A further update, I found this on a search on curved windows - an engineer should know.


I jumped from planes with a parachutes of course, the little planes we used to go mostly was a cesna but up to an-26 (the ones with the door in the rear), all old school planes single and duo motors, i was around 18 years old and I made 21 jumps in total. Earth seems slightly curved to me, no windows to block the view we were usually very close to the opened door.. and then at 16 000 feet free fall could see perfectly how big earth is, the curvature is almost imperceptible but enough to say it is not plain flat line.. also 16 000 feet I guess is not enough altitude for such observation, one should go beyond cruising altitude which is about 35 000 feet to have a strong evidence, but anyway it is not a flat line.

no go-pro fish-eye lens back then, also I am babbling here based on my own experience.

[MorningFox]

Well Mr Science Shill himself Neil Degrasse Tyson says you can't even see the curve from the stratosphere, so by the official narrative you most certainly could not ever see curvature from aeroplane altitude...

rE3QOj6t48c

[DeDukshyn]

OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?

[Ernie Nemeth]

I want to know.

These specific images are difficult to take and I simply don't have the time for it. I know it is debunkable because I know the earth is not flat. If it were there would be so many other areas that would be impacted/implicated by that fact. They are not, in my estimation, amenable to the same sort of manipulation. The extent of the necessary conspiracy involved, its direction, and its ultimate goal, all become far too convoluted to even consider as a viable alternate model of reality.

Another point by point argument seems - umm,...pointless.

[Strat]

All that and you still ducked my question.

Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.

[MorningFox]

All that and you still ducked my question.

Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.

My opinion is irrelevant.


OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?

lol. You're funny. Why such hostility?

I've already said I'm not stating the earth is flat, or round, I'm simply questioning our reality and searching for the truth. Why does this trigger you so much?

Yes please... Debunk every single point. I would love to see it. Despite your bizarre and hostile assumptions about me, I'm simply searching for the truth.

Oh and if you don't understand the significance of many, many maps from different times and different cultures all portraying the same thing, then I don't know what to say. I never said it proved anything, it's simply interesting and worthy of discussion.

I'll ask again, why on earth are you so emotionally triggered and hostile? :lol:

[DeDukshyn]

All that and you still ducked my question.

Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.

My opinion is irrelevant.


OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?

lol. You're funny. Why such hostility?

I've already said I'm not stating the earth is flat, or round, I'm simply questioning our reality and searching for the truth. Why does this trigger you so much?

Yes please... Debunk every single image. I would love to see it. Despite your bizarre and hostile assumptions about me, I'm simply searching for the truth.

Did you understand the post I put on the previous page, with a detailed explanation and an accompanying graphic as to why composite images are used, fisheye lenses are used, and why the continents and features appear larger in some photos that others?

Did you thoroughly review that? If you did and still can't understand why none of that evidence for a flat earth is based in reality, then I why should I spend the time? Its very straight forward, and if you can't understand it, then I don't have the tools to assist you.

You literally posted like two more images above about continent size above - meaning that you still believe that is valid evidence, even after I spent the time to very simply explain it? Its not complicated to understand - A small child could understand it easily.

Why would I spend the time explaining to someone who either won't read the post, or doesn't have the ability to understand basic logic, or is willing to ignore logic and sense altogether to justify their beliefs? Convince me you actually care.

I'm not triggered at all, just flabbergasted.

[Strat]

My opinion is irrelevant.

Quite the monologue you're having here.

[Pam]

There is even a Navy "over the horizon, radar" video proving the conditions that can only be explained correctly if the earth is not flat ... and I can go on and on and on ... sigh :ohwell: Don't forget, we live on the inversion planet. Who know what the hell the Navy "over the horizon radar" is, does it exist or is it just a another way to scam us out of any money we have left? You can go on with more US propaganda? And even if you did prove all this fancy, pricey equiptment exists it could all be within the realm of the simulation, I would expect that is the least they could come up with.

Up unto a couple of years ago, you might hear me spouting out "it's FDA approved". As if that is a confirmation of safety. I knew they were corrupt I didn't see the depth....

All I can say is to be willing to go all the way, wherever what I perceive to be true, follow it. Align with it. And what have I got for all my efforts, the badge of nut case of the week. That's ok. I will start worrying when I start to fit in and I am embraced or honored on this planet.

If we live on a simulation, then spending time wondering if the earth is a pancake floating around or if there are tortoises all the way down would be very meaningless, and a complete waste of effort and time better spent trying to figure out the simulation

So just spending some hours trying to figure out why the earth is flat goes around all logic. You can't prove it at all because one way or another we are in a simulation, so it may be that you go up there and look down and depending on the simulation programming you got, you:

1. See a giant pancake floating below
2. See a giant round object just there, and it has all the properties you were always told it would have

Then you go down and tell either side of the story to anyone who wants to listen. Nobody who believes contrary to you will accept your version of it, and pictures or videos will be a 'setup and part of the conspiracy'


Regardless of what side you end up being, you are now, in the eyes of the other side, 'an agent of the matrix'


I will take my pancake with real maple syrup.... I would love some apples that have been sauteed with cinnamon and coconut oil!!!! And I would love for you Mashika to be my guest. I mean that sincerely. You would be so much fun to have a conversation with pancake or balloon. I find it refreshing that you have passion. It is so very rare. You are young and you are a million years old... I find your passion delightful!!!!

[MorningFox]

All that and you still ducked my question.

Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.

My opinion is irrelevant.


OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?

lol. You're funny. Why such hostility?

I've already said I'm not stating the earth is flat, or round, I'm simply questioning our reality and searching for the truth. Why does this trigger you so much?

Yes please... Debunk every single image. I would love to see it. Despite your bizarre and hostile assumptions about me, I'm simply searching for the truth.

Did you understand the post I put on the previous page, with a detailed explanation and an accompanying graphic as to why composite images are used, fisheye lenses are used, and why the continents and features appear larger in some photos that others?

Did you thoroughly review that? If you did and still can't understand why none of that evidence for a flat earth is based in reality, then I why should I spend the time? Its very straight forward, and if you can't understand it, then I don't have the tools to assist you.

You literally posted like two more images above about continent size above - meaning that you still believe that is valid evidence, even after I spent the time to very simply explain it? Its not complicated to understand - A small child could understand it easily.

Why would I spend the time explaining to someone who either won't read the post, or doesn't have the ability to understand basic logic, or is willing to ignore logic and sense altogether to justify their beliefs? Convince me you actually care.

I'm not triggered at all, just flabbergasted.

I thought you could debunk every single point?
I'm waiting.

You're projecting so obviously your own shortcomings onto me. Telling me that I don't want to listen and I'm not looking for the truth. I've already stated multiple times that I don't know what the shape of the earth is and I'm looking for the truth. You're the one that is 100% sure that you know and won't even consider the possibility of being wrong 😂

You're projecting.

You've debunked literally nothing so far. You're talking about distance of camera and field of view? These are apparently photos of our whole earth... None of the stuff you said has any baring whatsoever... If it's our whole earth... The continents would always be consistent sizes. And if it's not the whole earth, where are the photos of the whole earth? You've literally debunked nothing so far... 😂

You said you could debunk EVERY point I've made, so please go ahead...

[DeDukshyn]

All that and you still ducked my question.

Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.

My opinion is irrelevant.


OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?

lol. You're funny. Why such hostility?

I've already said I'm not stating the earth is flat, or round, I'm simply questioning our reality and searching for the truth. Why does this trigger you so much?

Yes please... Debunk every single image. I would love to see it. Despite your bizarre and hostile assumptions about me, I'm simply searching for the truth.

Did you understand the post I put on the previous page, with a detailed explanation and an accompanying graphic as to why composite images are used, fisheye lenses are used, and why the continents and features appear larger in some photos that others?

Did you thoroughly review that? If you did and still can't understand why none of that evidence for a flat earth is based in reality, then I why should I spend the time? Its very straight forward, and if you can't understand it, then I don't have the tools to assist you.

You literally posted like two more images above about continent size above - meaning that you still believe that is valid evidence, even after I spent the time to very simply explain it? Its not complicated to understand - A small child could understand it easily.

Why would I spend the time explaining to someone who either won't read the post, or doesn't have the ability to understand basic logic, or is willing to ignore logic and sense altogether to justify their beliefs? Convince me you actually care.

I'm not triggered at all, just flabbergasted.

I thought you could debunk every single point?
I'm waiting.

You're projecting so obviously your own shortcomings onto me. Telling me that I don't want to listen and I'm not looking for the truth. I've already stated multiple times that I don't know what the shape of the earth is and I'm looking for the truth. You're the one that is 100% sure that you know and won't even consider the possibility of being wrong 😂

You're projecting.

You've debunked literally nothing so far. You're talking about distance of camera and field of view? These are apparently photos of our whole earth... None of the stuff you said has any baring whatsoever... If it's our whole earth... The continents would always be consistent sizes. And if it's not the whole earth, where are the photos of the whole earth? You've literally debunked nothing so far... 😂

You said you could debunk EVERY point I've made, so please go ahead...

So you are saying you read, fully understand, and agree with my earlier post, and you now realize that trying to make the point about continents being different sizes in photos as evidence for a flat earth was a mistake based on erroneous reasoning?

I can debunk all the images you posted, yes. Just like I did with "continent size" so called "evidence".

I asked you to convince me I'm not wasting my time. You haven't done that at all ... if anything you have made it more clear that I would be, as you are not willing to show you can learn that you have made an error in judgement (on the continent size issue - again a small child understands this, and you can't admit that you can?).

Convince me I won't be wasting my time.

[MorningFox]

All that and you still ducked my question.

Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.

My opinion is irrelevant.


OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?

lol. You're funny. Why such hostility?

I've already said I'm not stating the earth is flat, or round, I'm simply questioning our reality and searching for the truth. Why does this trigger you so much?

Yes please... Debunk every single image. I would love to see it. Despite your bizarre and hostile assumptions about me, I'm simply searching for the truth.

Did you understand the post I put on the previous page, with a detailed explanation and an accompanying graphic as to why composite images are used, fisheye lenses are used, and why the continents and features appear larger in some photos that others?

Did you thoroughly review that? If you did and still can't understand why none of that evidence for a flat earth is based in reality, then I why should I spend the time? Its very straight forward, and if you can't understand it, then I don't have the tools to assist you.

You literally posted like two more images above about continent size above - meaning that you still believe that is valid evidence, even after I spent the time to very simply explain it? Its not complicated to understand - A small child could understand it easily.

Why would I spend the time explaining to someone who either won't read the post, or doesn't have the ability to understand basic logic, or is willing to ignore logic and sense altogether to justify their beliefs? Convince me you actually care.

I'm not triggered at all, just flabbergasted.

I thought you could debunk every single point?
I'm waiting.

You're projecting so obviously your own shortcomings onto me. Telling me that I don't want to listen and I'm not looking for the truth. I've already stated multiple times that I don't know what the shape of the earth is and I'm looking for the truth. You're the one that is 100% sure that you know and won't even consider the possibility of being wrong 😂

You're projecting.

You've debunked literally nothing so far. You're talking about distance of camera and field of view? These are apparently photos of our whole earth... None of the stuff you said has any baring whatsoever... If it's our whole earth... The continents would always be consistent sizes. And if it's not the whole earth, where are the photos of the whole earth? You've literally debunked nothing so far... 😂

You said you could debunk EVERY point I've made, so please go ahead...

So you are saying you read, fully understand, and agree with my earlier post, and you now realize that trying to make the point about continents being different sizes in photos as evidence for a flat earth was a mistake based on erroneous reasoning?


Not once did I say it was evidence of flat earth. I said it was evidence we're being deceived. I'm sorry you cannot tell the vast difference between the two assertions.

Again, you're projecting. I understand perfectly well... do you? I've already explained that what you said regarding the camera distance and depth of view have literally no baring whatsoever when these are claimed to be photos of THE WHOLE EARTH.

And I've said already, if they are not photos of the whole earth, where are the photos of the whole earth?

Don't make me ask you for a third time.

What about the blatant copy and pasting of the cloud formations from one image to the next with apparently the images being taken years apart?


It's hilarious that you're making excuses to avoid debunking the other points. Substantiate your claims or your claims are null and void.

Are you genuinely claiming that you believe everything NASA shows you? Is that what I'm understanding here? You believe NASA?

Did you take the vaccine by any chance? :lol:

I honestly thought this forum was a place of open mindedness and awareness. I didn't realise the sheep were here.

[DeDukshyn]

Again, you're projecting. I understand perfectly well... I've already explained that what you said regarding the camera distance and depth of view have literally no baring whatsoever when these are claimed to be photos of THE WHOLE EARTH.

.

I guess, that is you telling me you don't understand it. You do realize that a sphere has a side that when a photo take, on side cannot be included - you do understand at least this much, or am I wrong here? Take a beach ball. and look at it - do you see the "whole thing?" or do you only see one side? Or do you see the "whole thing?"

Or are you now changing your argument to one of semantics? Where these the photos of the earth labeled as "The whole Earth"?? I've never seen that. It's obviously the whole of what can be observed from a given distance -- all this is easily taken from my earlier explainer post. And obviously only one side of a sphere can be photographed at a time. Why am I explaining this to an adult?

Even a small child can understand the explanation I posted. Easily.

I don't know what else to say - you have now fully convinced me you do not have the faculties to be able to understand what you are being told, or are just being willfully obtuse so as to not have to understand how you might be wrong. Either way - wasting my time.

If your "logic" tells you that if I believe the earth is a sphere, that it must mean I believe everything nasa says, then that explains how your "logic" has betrayed you into believing what you do.

Have a great day.

[MorningFox]

Again, you're projecting. I understand perfectly well... I've already explained that what you said regarding the camera distance and depth of view have literally no baring whatsoever when these are claimed to be photos of THE WHOLE EARTH.

.

I guess, that is you telling me you don't understand it. You do realize that a sphere has a side that when a photo take, on side cannot be included - you do understand at least this much, or am I wrong here? Take a beach ball. and look at it - do you see the "whole thing?" or do you only see one side? Or do you see the "whole thing?"


Now you're focusing on idiotic semantics instead of debunking the rest of the points.

Obviously I meant the whole earth in one frame. Surely you understood what I meant?
Do you understand the concept of photographing the whole beach ball in one frame? If someone asks you to take a photo of the whole beach ball, no one on earth is going to think that means the front and the back in one photo... that's purely idiotic. You're just being deliberately difficult.

As you said, the whole of what can be seen. The whole earth in one frame. THAT is what is claimed, therefore the continents should be uniform in every photo. They are not.

You're just deflecting from my questions and from debunking the other points.

I'm now attempting to play chess with a pigeon. Clearly.



[you] are just being willfully obtuse so as to not have to understand how you might be wrong


This is EXACTLY what you're doing! :lol: You really do project with every post you make.

[MorningFox]

The fact of the matter is that you said you could easily debunk every point I've made, and when I ask you to, you make excuses not to, and focus on foolish semantics about the one point you incorrectly think you have debunked.

Chess with pigeons.

If you're refusing to debunk my points, then I'll ask you one more question and then I give up. If you're so completely sure of your stance, then prove it to me... ?

Prove the earth is round.

If you can't, then you should be asking yourself why you're so sure.

[Bill Ryan]

Did you take the vaccine by any chance? :lol:
I honestly thought this forum was a place of open mindedness and awareness. I didn't realise the sheep were here.
Chess with pigeons.

[ ... and a lot more, too ... ]

Mod note from Bill:

MorningFox has been unsubscribed. The reason he will see as a notice next time he logs in is:
Enough. We gave you a really good chance, thinking that maybe you were just having a bad day or two. But your continuing dismissive, know-it-all unpleasantness isn't acceptable here any more.
:focus:

[Matthew]

Off topic: apologies to the OP

If the earth is flat why doesn't loose liquid form a 'flat' in zero-gravity? It forms wobbly spheres.

NASA lies but that isn't evidence corroborating anything else when you think about it.

That took 5 mins and is short but still also won't make a difference. Un-sarcastically flat earthers have my respect though. Half the problems of the world are people not daring to have their own opinions that go against the mainstream.


:sorrylol,backontopic:

[Bill Ryan]

It forms wobbly spheres.
Actually, droplets (or even enormous 'drops' of gaseous material) form perfect spheres in a vacuum. :thumbsup:

(That's why stars, planets and even large-ish moons are all spherical, give or take very tiny percentages. Anyone can see all that for themselves with their own eyes through a good telescope, the kind you can buy on Amazon for a few hundred $$ or less.)

[Matthew]

It forms wobbly spheres.
Actually, it forms perfect spheres in a vacuum. :thumbsup: (That's why stars, planets and even large-ish moons are all spherical, give or take very tiny percentages... anyone can see that for themselves with their own eyes through any good telescope.)

I'm sorry you had to ban someone :handshake: I might respect people with obstinate opinions, but I get it that there's only so much room for people in opinion-gimble-lock, especially with some subjects than others.

PERFECT spheres, I hear you not doubting it for a second :bigsmile: :thumbsup:

[Bill Ryan]

I'm sorry you had to ban someone :handshake: I might respect people with obstinate opinions, but I get it that there's only so much room for people in opinion-gimble-lock, especially with some subjects than others.He wasn't banned for his opinion. He was banned because of the increasingly foul-mouthed way he was addressing anyone at all with whom he disagreed.

Here's the message he sent after learning that he'd been unsubscribed. A few words of apology for getting excessively over-heated in his escalating insults would have helped us to reconsider — which we sometimes do, more often than many may realize. But here he just continues to dig his very deep hole.

~~~
You banned my account for having a debate!
Hah!
You have proven without a shadow of a doubt that you are a gatekeeper for the darkside.
You disgusting evil piece of ****.
Rot in hell for all eternity.

[Matthew]

Ouch,

I pegged Project Avalon as a meritocracy of politeness. Not saying I'm any kind of star, I have to toe the line, it's not a natural state for me but it does work up outside the forum too

[Strat]

"Disgusting evil piece of ****" is a bit strong for trying to figure out the shape of a planet. See why I tap out of these debates early?

What are we going to debate now, is water wet? I say it's only wet sometimes but not all the time. Prove me wrong dickbags.

[DeDukshyn]

"Disgusting evil piece of ****" is a bit strong for trying to figure out the shape of a planet. See why I tap out of these debates early?

What are we going to debate now, is water wet? I say it's only wet sometimes but not all the time. Prove me wrong dickbags.

Sometimes though, someone has to stick with it for a bit to really find out if weeding is needed, or to get the weed to expose itself as a weed. Occasionally the ones left without identification grow larger and cause increasing amounts of damage. I don't think that was the case here, but you never know - given his response to Bill. That was rather immature.

That of course has nothing to do with someone's opinion - but their behaviour and attitude.

[mojo]

I'm, sad this thread led to a ban as this was never the intention, I got snookered by math & not enough understanding of the subject , my apologies to all..

[DeDukshyn]

I'm, sad this thread led to a ban as this was never the intention, I got snookered by math & not enough understanding of the subject , my apologies to all..

Don't worry about it mojo, it had nothing to do with you. And there's nothing wrong with questioning things. I'm more than happy to oblige in explaining the faulty logic behind most of the FE assumptions. Feel free to send me a PM any time.

[Vangelo]

"Disgusting evil piece of ****" is a bit strong for trying to figure out the shape of a planet. See why I tap out of these debates early?

What are we going to debate now, is water wet? I say it's only wet sometimes but not all the time. Prove me wrong dickbags.

That was funny, thanks for the laugh this morning.

[Bill Ryan]

I'm, sad this thread led to a ban as this was never the intention, I got snookered by math & not enough understanding of the subject , my apologies to all..

Don't worry about it mojo, it had nothing to do with you. And there's nothing wrong with questioning things. I'm more than happy to oblige in explaining the faulty logic behind most of the FE assumptions. Feel free to send me a PM any time.Yep. :thumbsup:

This sorry thread will probably be closed fairly soon, but we want to leave it open just for the moment so that any further posts might be made about the entire affair.

:flower:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

For any who lost a few IQ points in this thread, here's a little pill to set you right called "facts, truth, and reality".

https://i.vgy.me/tKJwMS.gif

[gord]

I've seen Toronto across the lake while standing in Fort Niagara, just about 20 miles west of Olcott. The view was almost identical to the above picture.

[JackMcThorn]

The torus earthers are way more fun than the flat-earthers. With the torus design, all your shenanigans at sea make much more sense. [I travelled about 35,ooo nautical miles at sea in the late 9os.]

50371

[Ernie Nemeth]

Morning Fox has been here a long time.

It's always sad to see them go, over what must have been a moment of emotional turmoil...

Just apologize and come back.

This thread should never have been...

[Delight]

Morning Fox has been here a long time.

It's always sad to see them go, over what must have been a moment of emotional turmoil...

Just apologize and come back.

This thread should never have been...

I think there is something bigger than a moment of turmoil. What IS IT about the huge reaction people have to the basics we see as our (literal and figurative) ground of reality?

There are so many ways I have been convinced that I knew "what is what". Back in the days when I did not question much at all, I never entertained that we might not have actually been able to get to the moon by rocketry. I was not bothered by wondering if MY isms (like feminism) and culture was imposed ON ME. I had a "stable" belief system that was not 100% what my parents thought but was not TOO FAR OUT>

I recall an actual disgusted feeling when a friend kept sending me info about flat earth. The conversation possible around existence or not of viruses was very brief because OF COURSE there are viruses ETC (a whole can of worms). I LOVED talking to people but in retrospect we shared most assumptions about the ground floor. The strange seeming fact IMO is the need to pin down a platform on how "things are" which may become an emotional attachment. I don't KNOW if the earth has any particular shape myself and can only see from others. Will I feel upset if you disagree? Not about THAT but other issues.

What I DO see is that people may actually feel hate towards me for various differences. What they read onto me based on THEIR POV about anything and everything will create reaction. I see this as WAY more than whether we can measure curvature of the sphere, or ANY subject.

Some subjects like the existence or not of a previous global civilization never challenged me, but has very much challenged others. We can add giants, hollow earth, expanding earth and other subjects to a list of places we could go in thought and which may actually alienate people with other POV. Even back in the 90's, it was hard to find material about some alt subjects and Graham Hancock was controversial but not threatening.

Once only intrepid explorers could report and their reports were moderated often. Life was mostly local for humanity and what happened around the world was rather compartmentalized. Then resets might occur but we had big physical differences The other times, pockets of strange and unusual POV (think Credo Mutwah as an example of the real shamanic line of reasoning) were still available if one could travel to him. Then travel became temporarily more widespread and we began to see a rather more "open" minded potential about roles and relations and YES, religion and history and even the woo woo like "did we REALLY travel to the moon?" or whatever the case.


The internet really was AMAZING and had a brief moment of flourishing of unconstrained information. Now there is a swing towards constraint that is arising form within as well as from outside IMO. It has all gone too far. I can see it in a light which has shown how people can believe things that will cause physical harm. People believe and then want to impose a physical change in others. The collective mind is shattering and instead of seeing we may need to seek a different point to use as connection with truth, there is more likely a "war" between POVs.

This really really really.... BOTHERS me. I am afraid we may have reached the end of the line, the proverbial end of the "internet". This IS the first time the whole planet May possibly be conformed in mind. What WINS?

The mightiest of the tyrannical thought controllers will establish what is real and after lots of warring in and around some "thought things", the old stuff will be eradicated as much as possible and the few left alive (as we cannot have LOTS of various very different modes) will be

The TRUTH?

[avid]

Anything to do with ‘flat earth’ surely now has no place here, it’s so divisive. Avoid it like the plague, it causes so much angst.
We all can see our beautiful planet from space, and other celestial bodies nearby. Why are folk still nitpicking? So annoying, cease and desist flatearthers, epic failures abound,

[zebowho]

Hopefully one day, he'll come around and realize, is THIS the subject you really want to get hung up on....when the whole world is upside down, people dying because of greed and their ethnicity. Yeah, those last two are ages old but still with as bad as its gotten, does it really, I mean really matter what the shape of the planet is? I've always had one serious question with the flat vs. round earth debate (yes, I get curiosity and wanting to question things), how does any of this impact my life in the slightest bit. It doesn't, its a mere distraction. Things happening today, around the world do impact my life and the way everything has ramped up since the pandemic, well, I think there are more pressing issues we need to try to stand together on. JMO!

-z

[palehorse]

The torus earthers are way more fun than the flat-earthers. With the torus design, all your shenanigans at sea make much more sense. [I travelled about 35,ooo nautical miles at sea in the late 9os.]

50371

Homer Simpson land!!! haha thanks had never seen this one.

Here is another freaking funny one and of course they got a documentary about it, a 3D model, t-shirts, even bump stickers, go figure!

Welcome to Convex Earth

http://web.archive.org/web/20201109041732/http://convexearth.org/

http://web.archive.org/web/20200905111750im_/http://convexearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/capa-terra-convexa-site4.jpg

[XelNaga]

Hopefully one day, he'll come around and realize, is THIS the subject you really want to get hung up on....when the whole world is upside down, people dying because of greed and their ethnicity. Yeah, those last two are ages old but still with as bad as its gotten, does it really, I mean really matter what the shape of the planet is? I've always had one serious question with the flat vs. round earth debate (yes, I get curiosity and wanting to question things), how does any of this impact my life in the slightest bit. It doesn't, its a mere distraction. Things happening today, around the world do impact my life and the way everything has ramped up since the pandemic, well, I think there are more pressing issues we need to try to stand together on. JMO!

-z

It is simply because, people, most people, tend to think in black&white.

Flat Earth=Bible is true=there is "God"

Globe Earth=Bible is not true, science is true=there is no "God".

That is the basics of the flat Earth people, and why they are pushing it so hard, and why it is so hard for them to let it go.

I have never understood why one excludes the other, why evolution means no "God", and why "God" means that there can be no evolution. But that is the way it is with a lot, really a lot, of people.

[DeDukshyn]

Hopefully one day, he'll come around and realize, is THIS the subject you really want to get hung up on....when the whole world is upside down, people dying because of greed and their ethnicity. Yeah, those last two are ages old but still with as bad as its gotten, does it really, I mean really matter what the shape of the planet is? I've always had one serious question with the flat vs. round earth debate (yes, I get curiosity and wanting to question things), how does any of this impact my life in the slightest bit. It doesn't, its a mere distraction. Things happening today, around the world do impact my life and the way everything has ramped up since the pandemic, well, I think there are more pressing issues we need to try to stand together on. JMO!

-z

It is simply because, people, most people, tend to think in black&white.

Flat Earth=Bible is true=there is "God"

Globe Earth=Bible is not true, science is true=there is no "God".

That is the basics of the flat Earth people, and why they are pushing it so hard, and why it is so hard for them to let it go.

I have never understood why one excludes the other, why evolution means no "God", and why "God" means that there can be no evolution. But that is the way it is with a lot, really a lot, of people.


It is that form of logic used for sure - and applied in other ways. Like I was told that I "must believe everything NASA says" because "I believe in a sphere earth". That is a ludicrous assertion.

1) "NASA isn't always honest" is true so "images of earth by NASA must be false". 2)"Images show inconsistency in continent size so image must be lie". then "evidence 1) corroborates evidence 2), so it must be proof!"

That logic is not logic, two failed logics together take you so much further from proof - it belies the entire premise being built on BS, that can probably be extended to similar arguments. Its a total failure of logic, and it is this total failure of logic that allows FE beliefs to persist. I will admit, there are some points that I understand might cause some people to question - but the logical answers are easily available to anyone who truly seeks the answer.

I have come to think that people who vehemently believe in a flat earth have no ability to do or understand deductive logic - as though that part of their brain just plain doesn't work. They can't see how they might be wrong because the understanding of the required logic is fully absent.

[Isserley]

This is a psychological phenomenon, a brutal example of how ideology can be destructive to the human mind, how it can disrupt the power of discernment and logical thinking.
The same psychological processes are at play here as in people caught in the net of any other religious sect - everything is solely in the domain of belief and mental gymnastics accompanied by enormous cognitive dissonance.

[palehorse]

point the fingers to C I A, they decided to spin the wheels of flat earth once again, obviously because it works, lots and lots of people flocked straight into it without questioning, I even knew some dudes trying to make a living out of it, like asking donations to make a trip to the ice wall.. funny part they vanished after they got no donations at all.
More circus and more bread to the folks, that's all we need :facepalm:

[9ideon]

As I have posted before... back in the day when kids on board were invited up to the cockpit to meet the captain, I went up there once on a night flight and through the cockpit window I saw the curvature of the earth in the distance. I can still picture it as it's the most amazing sight I have ever seen.

No one can ever convince me that the earth is flat.

You couldn't possibly see the curvature from plane altitude. Planes windows are curved, that was almost certainly an illusion from the curved window. I'm not saying earth is flat, I'm just saying that you cannot see curvature from that altitude.

Actually, you can see it.

I have,myself, in an aeroplane, about 38 years ago flying at around 35,000 feet (perhaps more) passing over the Indian sub-continent back to Blighty from Hong Kong. It's a very gradual curvature given Earth's circumference size so it's not as markedly defined as say viewing a football (soccer) ball from any given vantage point. (I nearly said from any side there, and then corrected myself :p).

Curve can be seen when jumping out of an airplane too, it's not like outstanding, but see-able without any doubt, to me at the time anyway, I was more surprised I was able to breath tbh, even more with my chute opening btw, lol.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Some may ask why does the earth's shape matter? Why is all this such a big deal?

My answer is, when you see and hear people around you falling for an obvious lie - the flat earth is not just any lie but a ridiculous whopper of a lie - you're sort of duty-bound to do something about that.

It's no easy task. Sometimes the lie is so embedded in someone, so engrained, that cognitive dissonance has set in, and then there's really nothing more you can do. Cognitive dissonance is of course the whole point behind this lie.

The Earth has been a globe for a very long time. In fact it was globe long before its circumference was measured. It followed, for one, that it must be a globe because every other body in the heavens is a globe. It's how the cosmos must work! The ancients figured that out by pure, simple deduction - they weren't stupid. Then at last it was proven beyond doubt - see Eratosthenes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes), and that was the end of the matter. When powered flight and rocketry came about in the 20th century the globe became observable (if any doubt remained).

Can't believe I'm doing this, but ...

Go to 21 minutes. Footage of a Falcon Heavy test flight that was broadcast Live. From launch to orbit in one continuous feed.

It shows the round Earth. Once again it was broadcast LIVE.

wbSwFU6tY1c

There are many more images of the earth, filmed and photographed for the last 70 years (long before CGI and photoshop shenanigans).

Any tiny speck of resistance to the heliocentric model vanished in the 20th century. But for a tiny, tiny few maybe (those in the Flat Earth society, and most of them weren't even serious about it!) the flat earth was no more.

Then enter the Internet! and a new age of trolling, memes and mind control. Suddenly, after thousands of years, the earth could be flat again!!!

"So let's make it so", said someone in a dark office.

And why? It would be a useful TOOL.

A tool to do what? To coerce and controls minds (and there are plenty of soft, gullible minds out there!)

In other words, this flat earth nonsense is

A PSYOP

For what purpose?

It's two-fold.

One, to run interference. Create distraction and division in the 'alt community'. That succeeded. We now have people arguing over a matter settled two centuries before Christ. Yeh, seriously. Then again we have people today arguing whether men can have periods now, or if 2+2 in some scenario can equal 5. See how soft and gullible the modern brain has become?

The main target of this psyop is actually Joe Blow, the average guy or girl on the street - those whose existence spans little further than X-Factor or Love Island or the latest clip on Tiktok. Their brains are not gullible enough to fall for this lie, but soft enough to be easily shaped by it.

It's not about getting them to believe the earth is flat - that serves no useful purpose - it's about getting them to believe that those who do believe it's flat are stupid gullible conspiracy theorists.

So conspiracy theorist must therefore = The Mentally Deficient.

The flat earth is a 'fake conspiracy theory' designed to tarnish those two words 'conspiracy' and 'theory' when spoken together - automatically extending it to ALL conspiracy theories: JFK, UFOs, 9/11, fluoride, or whatever it is. ANY of them. It's to make wholesale mockery of those who believe in ANY of them.

And that's the bottom line.

http://themillenniumreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/flatearthhoaxdisinfo.jpg

[Bill Ryan]

I'm now closing this rather awful thread. :)

https://projectavalon.net/Turtles_all_the_way_down.gif