It's a family affair - - -

[ozmirage]

Everybody has at least two parents, says Captain Obvious.

So every individual in the present generation had 2 parents, who each had 2 parents, and so on. This is geometric progression, that goes 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 ... and on and on.
If each generation is roughly 20 years in duration, going back 2000 years, is 100 generations.

2 raised to the 100th power is 1,267,650,600,228,229,401,496,703,205,376.

But since population decreases as we go back in time, it really means that we’re all related at some point in the past. (Converging series)

And if we imagine humanity doubling every 50 years, or quadrupling every 100 years, in 2000 years, we will have 40 doublings.

2 raised to the 40th power is 1,099,511,627,776. . . the factor.

Current population is approximately 8 billion.

So we may find humanity at 4000 A.D. reaching or exceeding 8,796,093,022,208,000,000,000.
8.796 x 10 ^ 21 or 8.796 sextillion people, who are our descendants or related to us.

What do you think would be the best strategy to prepare for their arrival?

IMHO, we need to stop fighting over pieces of the "Pie" and start baking more "pies."
How?
We can "thicken" the life bearing volume of the finite surface of Earth.
We can build immense orbital habitats and vivariums, and fill the sky.
We can reach distant star systems, even if only we reach one tenth lightspeed.

I'd rather work for the benefit of all our progeny than to selectively kill off grandchildren and their grandchildren, for short term profit.

[ozmirage]

FUTURE VISIONS

IMHO, population doubling is not a threat to the survival of humanity. Though those who own or control the wealth and resources feel otherwise, the illusion of Zero Sum Game blinds them. They see a finite Earth, and believe the only way to get a “bigger piece of the pie” is to take it from someone else. I say, “Bake more pies!”

Humanity can innovate and engineer the surface, to amplify the life bearing capacity. Environmental preservation is suicidal. We need environmental amplification, and thicken the life bearing volume of the thin habitable layer.

The logical step after ecoforming the Earth is to colonize space, by constructing large habitats, to orbit around the Sun and other planets. Using robotic fabricators that self replicate, these micro factories could be seeded across the Solar system. Attached to a celestial body - asteroid, moon, or comet, they could harvest resources and construct tooling, hulls and shells.

Once the exponential increase in space habitat exceeds the rate of population growth, humanity will be free of the limiting pressures of Earth that fueled wars and conflict.

Outside of the gravity well, humanity can “surf” the Solar system, using the Interplanetary Transport Network. With a convenient fusion reactor, plenty of expansion room and a large resource base, humanity can keep on expanding for another 6000 years. By then, we may find ways to reach the nearby stars and utilize their resources, and keep on expanding outward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Network
Though surfing gravity takes little or no energy, it does take longer than a ballistic orbit. But if we are using autonomous, self reliant habitats, taking more time is no problem. Interplanetary travel can become as mundane as "hitching a ride" on a space colony going your way.

- - - -

I forgot to mention that space colonization and world peace are mutually dependent. We can't divert resources to colonize space if we're wasting them in warfare. And once in space, we don't need war to gain more resources. Everything we need is already there - except life bearing habitats for more abundant life. That's what we bring to the table.

[Denise/Dizi]

Are you taking into account that generations also die off? There are those who used to have 13 kids, few still do that, And people are now having less children in my opinion, as the cost of living increases and things become more scarce... We also have better healthcare, so less people die as a result of things that were incurable in the past.

Many are now adopting same sex lifestyles and adopting... And there are many factors not taken into account in this series of equations. But kudos to you for doing the math!!!

Some are suggesting we are facing a population decline rather than an explosion... I suppose time will tell..

[ozmirage]

Are you taking into account that generations also die off? There are those who used to have 13 kids, few still do that, And people are now having less children in my opinion, as the cost of living increases and things become more scarce... We also have better healthcare, so less people die as a result of things that were incurable in the past.

Many are now adopting same sex lifestyles and adopting... And there are many factors not taken into account in this series of equations. But kudos to you for doing the math!!!

Some are suggesting we are facing a population decline rather than an explosion... I suppose time will tell..
In the days before glorious socialism, one's security in old age was limited to private charity or one's own family (children). So it was reasonable to have a lot of children to spread the burden.

Along came socialism, and suddenly it became too expensive to have children. Of course in non-socialist countries, their birthrates are still high.

Ironically, the decline in birthrate is greatest in "socialist paradises." Methinks that once you fall for the lie that you have socialist security by "taxing other people's children," it begins to fall apart when folks can't afford children, thanks to the ever higher socialist taxes.

Europe is especially at risk as its aging recipient population growth far outstrips the taxpayer growth (new generations). Something is going to go "badda boom."
In Japan, there is such a shortage of labor, that robots are replacing humans. One video about "capsule hotels" featured a clerk robot that was operated by a worker at home. Another featured a restaurant, where multiple robots were operated remotely. I wouldn't be surprised to find one worker operates multiple robots for multiple enterprises.

[ExomatrixTV]

We are NOT "overpopulated" (http://tinyurl.com/We-Are-Not-Overpopulated) for so many reasons ... deliberate (international) mismanagement is one of them!

There is no perpetual "doubling" no increase in population as predicted by "Global 2000 Report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_2000_Report_to_the_President)" produced by the Club of Rome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_of_Rome) who use the FRAUDULENT "REPORT" to justify (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113012-The-Depopulation-Plan) all kinds of Tyranny, Undemocratic Technocracy (https://technocracy.news), Totalitarian "Global Governance", Pushing Endless Unjust Wars, Mass Poisoning, Mass Genetic Experiments (indirect forced mass sterilizations) violating all 10 Nuremberg Code of Medical Ethics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code), Toxic Overt & Covert Geoengineering (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?116926-The-Dimming-2021), Over The Top Control-Freaks (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120761-The-nature-of-evil-in-the-modern-world&p=1548367&viewfull=1#post1548367) using anything to justify more insanity sold as "the new normal" and counting on gullible people (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120761-The-nature-of-evil-in-the-modern-world&p=1548367&viewfull=1#post1548367) to blindly believe their propaganda!


Overpopulation (a myth) has been exposed & debunked many times (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113012-The-Depopulation-Plan) on Project Avalon. For one, they suppress revolutionary inventions that could solve almost all environmental problems ... We could go to other exoplanets much faster, but they will not share that kind of technology & insights to the world. Deliberately keeping the masses dumb about it.

When a full-grown Apple tree is blossoming and bear fruit, it will expand ... just like humanity is destined to do the same in space thus will live somewhere other than Earth ... the last time I checked the universe in big enough for that to happen same goes for Earth itself with new technology it can easily have 10 times more humans on Earth but they "forget" to mention the ones that created these FRAUDULENT doom reports are connected to the same power that be that suppress & criminalize reals solutions & alternative cures. Creating artificial scarcity is one of many tactics how they keep themselves in control of humanity, and they need gullible "good people (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120761-The-nature-of-evil-in-the-modern-world&p=1548367&viewfull=1#post1548367)" to stay dumb about what is really going on ... without the help of gullible "good people (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120761-The-nature-of-evil-in-the-modern-world&p=1548367&viewfull=1#post1548367)" spreading their doom propaganda they have no chance to stay in control that long.

What if they think they can "justify" mass sterilization "side" effects through mass (semi-)forced vaccination programs, because it is in their view the "most humane" way to depopulate the Earth ... a "necessary" sacrifice for the "greater good" ??? ... also falsely assuming "doing nothing" about their alleged "overpopulation bomb" suppose to be much worse than being 100% benevolent, safe & honest to the people.




What if they think they can "justify" mass sterilization "side" effects through mass (semi-)forced vaccination programs, because it is in their view the "most humane" way to depopulate the Earth ... a "necessary" sacrifice for the "greater good" ??? ... also falsely assuming "doing nothing" about their alleged "overpopulation bomb" suppose to be much worse than being 100% benevolent, safe & honest to the people.

cheers,
John

Yes John that may well be the way the Cabal sees it.
People will die for a cause they believe in.
They are not scared of being found out or Nuremberg trial.

The thing is nature takes care of it and reduces the population periodically

There have been quite a few near extinction events documented --its cyclic, so it seems.
Suspicious Observers worth looking at.

Chris

Yes I think this is where the difficulties of talking about all this with other people comes from - the sheer numbers of 'elite' and political / medical figures involved that are colluding at an international level - and don't spend time twiddling their invisible mustaches laughing manically - mwhahahahaha - reflecting on their evil plot - they are, in reality behaving as if they are doing nothing wrong because they don't believe they are doing anything wrong and this conveys itself to (the majority of?) the masses... who then can't believe the whole covid thing is a trick... can't believe they would be told such a monstrous lie...

Indeed many of the international co~conspirators might think they are being noble and selfless to push the depopulation thing forward - living with the burden of the lie - saving the planet or so they will try to daily convince themselves..

BUT

what they are doing is totally unethical and the collateral damage turns them into mass murderers -

They are walking a very fine line with the darkness of their secrets on the brink of engulfing them at any moment... leading them closer and closer to the more hardcore Satanic Forces -

We are NOT "overpopulated" for so many reasons ... (international) mismanagement is one of them!

If humanity were not unnecessarily attacked on their health on sooooooo many levels last decades (including erratic pulse microwaves) and real (revolutionary) solutions (suppressed inventions) not be criminalized, silenced or covered up.


Imagine a farmer crippling its livestock then "complaining" they do not walk fast enough!

Part of humanity is destined to go to (live on) other planets, thus making more space here anyway! ... How many different aliens are already interacting with us and could help us not to stay on Earth? Just like a flower seeding elsewhere ... Earth can do the same but the Psychopathic Technocrats (control freaks) do everything in their power to sabotage that to keep us here (mentally, emotionally & physically) sick, compromised & enslaved on purpose to have a EXCUSE to claim we are "overpopulated".

Almost all natural solutions are dismissed by so-called "international authorities" (like W.H.O.) we all being forced in to Agenda 2030 to be artificially micromanaged serving The Great (Dystopian) Reset. All who can expose their false "justifications" for their Tyranny will be dealt with via new insane (unconstitutional) laws & regulations enforced by other slaves helping the status quo.

"The end justifies the means" ... they will use ANY EXCUSE to push their tyrannical dystopian agenda, and the (false perception) "overpopulation bomb" is one of them.

--o-O-o--

We live in a world where we have Hijacked Governments legalizing Corporate Crimes and Criminalizing Real Solutions like:


Suppressed Inventions
HEMP Revolution
Forbidden Cures
Study amongst others the Documentary "When Healing Becomes a Crime".

Do you know they can turn a Desert in to an Oases using "Super Absorbers" small pallets mixing it in the earth then use fewer than normal water to start farming?

Do you know they can now convert Seawater in to Drinking water in a cheap way?

In coming decades humans (not with help from aliens) can build 100s of (hurricane proof) giant self-sustainable floating cities and 2/3 of Earth is covered with water ... any idea how much space/room that is? If official CONTACT with Aliens are made, 1000s of new ideas are possible to build new cities. I ask you again, how big is 2/3 of the Earth? "Not enough space"? ... Did you know that Australia or The State of Texas can manage 7 Billion people with the correct (suppressed) technology?

There are 100s of practical solutions, IF we all were managed more honestly we would not have ANY problems feeding everybody. Now most farmers are punished & attacked by UN Food rules (intensives, mandates, insane food regulations etc. etc.) all to serve a Worldwide PUSH for Toxic GMO Food Agenda! (obvious part of NWO Depopulation Agenda).

We are "managed" by corrupt & insane psychopaths when it comes to food. And it is global.

Study: corrupt Codex Alimentarius (https://rumble.com/vmrlju-codex-alimentarius.html) run by over the top control freaks!


Would Abuse of Power on a Massive Scale be Possible Without These 25 Points? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120716-Would-Abuse-of-Power-on-a-Massive-Scale-be-Possible-Without-These-25-Points)
What the Heck is Communitarianism? Normalizing Insanity 24-7 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120835-What-the-Heck-is-Communitarianism-Normalizing-Insanity-24-7&p=1549946#post1549946)
Crime Theorists 'Crowdsourcing Network' Gaining Momentum? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120793-Crime-Theorists-Crowdsourcing-Network-Gaining-Momentum)
The Psychology of Totalitarianism (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?119992-The-Psychology-of-Totalitarianism)
Top 30 Side-Effects of Unjust Lock-downs! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110874-Top-30-Side-Effects-of-the-Unjust-Lock-down--by-John-Kuhles)
(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110874-Top-30-Side-Effects-of-the-Unjust-Lock-down--by-John-Kuhles)
It Is Official: We All Are Under Mass Hypnosis ... But Some Are Immune To The Mass Conditioning!
(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?116661-It-is-official-We-all-are-under-mass-hypnosis-...-but-some-are-immune-to-the-mass-conditioning-)
What is worse? ... (Summarizing 2020) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111519-What-is-worse-...--Summarizing-2020-)
Twelve Years 1933-1945 vs Twelve Years 2020-2032 (Draft by John Kuhles) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113523-Twelve-Years-1933-1945-vs-Twelve-Years-2020-2032--Draft-by-John-Kuhles-)
The Depopulation Plan (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113012-The-Depopulation-Plan)
Biggest Threat To Financial Freedom is CBDC (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120026-Biggest-Threat-To-Financial-Freedom-is-CBDC)
The Final War - The 100-Year Plot - [Documentary] (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120220-The-Final-War-The-100-Year-Plot-Documentary)
'Climate Lockdowns' are Coming (Agenda2030) Predicted by Conspiracy Researchers! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115447-Climate-Lockdowns-are-Coming--Agenda2030--Predicted-by-Conspiracy-Researchers-)
Look Who's Coming to the "Rescue"! Bill Gates... (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110573-Look-Who-s-Coming-to-the-Rescue--Bill-Gates...)
Top 10 Creepiest Most Dystopian Things Pushed By The World Economic Forum (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118748-Top-10-Creepiest-Most-Dystopian-Things-Pushed-By-The-World-Economic-Forum)
The 'Great (Dystopian) Reset' (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111148-The-Great-Reset)
Nanotechnology: the Big Mammoth in the Room! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118654-Nanotechnology-the-Big-Mammoth-in-the-Room-)
Cashless Society in 2030? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118335-Cashless-Society-in-2030)
Stop 5G before it's irreversible! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100537-Stop-5G-before-it-s-irreversible-)
When an Accusation like 'Controlled Opposition' loses its value! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117528-When-an-Accusation-like-Controlled-Opposition-loses-its-value-)
Suppressed Inventions Research - My Story (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117915-Suppressed-Inventions-Research-My-Story)
Does 'The Great Dystopian Reset' have a 'Plan B' for Agenda 2030 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117358-Does-The-Great-Dystopian-Reset-have-a-Plan-B-for-Agenda-2030)
Imagine A Real "Sanctuary Country" for Millions of Conspiracy (Suppressed News) Researchers! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110914-Imagine-A-Real-Sanctuary-Country-for-Millions-of-Conspiracy-Researchers-)

--o-O-o--


Has there ever been a public debate with professionals, scientists & specialists about "how to solve the (falsely) ASSUMED overpopulation (https://web.archive.org/web/20220818080906/https://www.overpopulationmyth.com/) problem" anywhere, anytime in Mainstream Media? ... Anyone? ... and what about other countries?

If not, why not? ... Do they fear us waking up to them ... their true agenda?

https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/v1/user/27474914.f5b631e7.160x160o.f6c78faaf102@2x.png (https://whynotnews.eu/)

cheers,
John Kuhles (https://whynotnews.eu/) aka 'ExomatrixTV'
March 31st, 2023 🦜🦋🌳

See also: overpopulationisamyth.com (http://overpopulationisamyth.com)
Related: ClimateScare-Agenda2030 (http://tinyurl.com/ClimateScare-Agenda2030)

100% related topic:
1639919164813967361

[ozmirage]

Amplification of Life
In addition to “thickening” the life bearing volume of the finite surface area of Earth, we can construct immense orbital colonies, habitats and vivariums.
Frankly, to host billions, and trillions, and quadrillions of future folk, we need - - -

MANY EARTHS

Surface area of Earth: 510,072,000 km2 (196,940,000 sq mi), or one “Terrestrial” or Terr.
. . .
An “Island Three” O’Neill dual cylinder space habitat has an equivalent of 0.0021 Terrestrials, in surface area. (If subdivided into concentric cylindrical decks)
. . .
To reach one Terrestrial, 475 space habitats would need to be constructed. If the production cycle was 20 years per habitat, and each habitat built another, it would only take 9 cycles or 180 years (9 x 20 years). [geometric progression]

If we started building Colony One in 2040,

2040: 0
2060: 1
2080: 3
2100: 7
2120: 15
2140: 31
2160: 63
2180: 127
2200: 255
2220: 511 <<1.07 Terrs.
2240: 1023 <2.14 Terrs.
2260: 2047 <4.38 Terrs.
2280: 4095 <8.76 Terrs.
. . .
3000: 2.815 e+14 < 5.911 e+11 Terrs (0.591 Trillion Terrs)
4000: 3.169 e+29 < 1.331 e+27 Terrs (3.169 Octillion Terrs)

- - - - -
One might object that there just isn’t ENOUGH money to fund space colonization.
Though that sounds like a valid argument, remember, that MONEY MADNESS is in operation.

SEE: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120850-Money-Madness-and-Socialism&p=1550252&viewfull=1#post1550252

In reality, prosperity is based on prodigious production of surplus usable goods and services, equitably traded and enjoyed.
And that production relies on human labor, amplified and multiplied by tools, machines, mass production, etc.
Without the throttle of money madness, a growing global population means astounding PROSPERITY, and plenty of surplus to devote to SPACE COLONIZATION.

What about materials and power?
Fortunately, everything we need is already in outer space - expansion room - fusion power source 24/7 - water (ice from comets, etc) - metals (asteroids). All that’s missing is life and habitat - which humans can provide.

ASTEROID MINING

https://www.asterank.com/3d/

Scientists think the M-type (metallic) asteroid 16 Psyche is comprised mostly of metallic iron and nickel similar to Earth’s core.
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroids-comets-and-meteors/asteroids/16-psyche/in-depth/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16_Psyche
16 Psyche (asteroid) mass : (2.23±0.36)×10^19 kg

From this one asteroid, one could build 546,256,494,080 battleships of the Iowa Class.
[546 BILLION]

IOWA class battleship weighs 45,000 tons (40,823,313.3 kg, or 40,823 metric tonnes)

{Of course, we’d rather build autonomous space colonies, instead of armored dreadnoughts in space.}
An O’Neill cylinder 5 miles x 20 miles, 1319 decks, holding approx. 10.36 million crew (nominal) 20 million (max).
Massing 26,742 megatonnes per colony
Estimated 833,895 space colonies

How long to build that many?

_ _ 19.67 cycles x 20 year construction cycle = 393 years
_ _ 19.67 cycles x 30 year construction cycle = 590 years

Hosting population of 8.637E+12 (8.637 trillion)
(Reach that population roughly before 2700 A.D.)

Surface area equivalent to 877 Earths
With a population of 9.848 billions per equivalent Earth
THAT’S JUST ONE ASTEROID !
THERE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF ASTEROIDS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_belt

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS SAYS: We don't need to discover "other planets" to colonize. Nor do we need FTL "star drives." We only need to construct habitat volume in outer space, in our own solar system.

Perhaps in thousands of years, it will be expedient to migrate to neighboring star systems. At one tenth lightspeed we can "fill up" the galaxy in roughly half a billion years (give or take a million).
No need to rush.

[ozmirage]

In less than 200 years, we may have the manufacturing capacity to generate more "empties" than humans can crew. Imagine the possibilies when a 20 million capacity colony is commissioned and crewed by -say- 40,000 folks, who load it up with seeds, zygotes, etc, and start the process of "dirt farming" (building soil), and constructing all manner of wildlife habitats and vivariums.

To reach the half way point - 10 million - the original 40,000 would have to increase by a factor of 250, or roughly 2^8. 8 doubling cycles, which if that were 50 years per doubling, would take 400 years.

At which time the crew could "bud" off new crewmen for "empties" and repeat the process. Or more likely, "graduate" new classes every 20 years or so to commission their own "new" construction.

It would be interesting to see if the "grizzled" adepts choose the pioneer life of a spanking new colony that needs to be totally engineered to contain life - or - would they prefer an already "cooked" colony with its myriad ecologies and human habitats.

[ozmirage]

Contrary to the doom and gloomers, who only see the worst aspects, there is GREAT HOPE for the future.

Humanity can achieve great things, provide more habitat for more abundant life, on Earth and in the Heavens.

"Out There" is immense expansion room, raw materials, power 24/7, and opportunity.

There are options undreamt of by visionaries and fiction writers. One of them is the ability to "surf gravity" by utilizing the Interplanetary Transport Network. It's slow - but cheap (little or no fuel). It's ideal for large autonomous self sufficient colonies. Future travellers might only need to "hitch hike" on colonies that are in transit orbits that intersect destinations -or- just other colonies.

One of the dangers outside of the atmosphere and magnetic field is radiation. Fortunately, materials high in hydrogen are good shields - like water. Thus it would be economical to store a colony's water in the outermost cylindrical shell. It would do multiple duties - shield against cosmic radiation - provide a celestial lake or ocean habitat - decelerate micrometeorites - and leaks would be plugged by icicles that would form - which would also indicate where to repair the damage.

No science fiction writer ever imagined that we might live "inside" an ocean in space. Of course, that means no "windows" to the outside, as often depicted in fanciful artwork. But it would be worth it.

[Anchor]

--
With the evolution of consciousness and the thinning of the veil between that which is not yet understood and ourselves two things will happen:

1) We will live longer (think OT/biblical ages 400-800yrs)
2) Having children or not will be a conscious decision with no reliance on mechanical or chemical methods of family planning.

The coming abundance will change the whole paradigm about why people want to have children. It will no longer be to make people to "earn money" and look after you when you are old!!

Right now the death rate in most MRNA injected societies of the 1st world countries is up 15%-17% on average (and it certainly looks like a consequence of the vaccine - but officially yet to be proven or dis-proven), For many already unhealthy people, the vaccine was a slow death sentence. Regardless, right now the world is actually probably going to experience a crash in the number of incarnated humans for the next few years since many young people are not having children like before.

This is not a cheerful conclusion but, it is what I think is happening.

IMO, the least of our worries is anything resembling over population.

[ozmirage]

We are NOT "overpopulated" (http://tinyurl.com/We-Are-Not-Overpopulated) for so many reasons ... deliberate (international) mismanagement is one of them!


There is no perpetual "doubling" no increase in population as predicted by "Global 2000 Report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_2000_Report_to_the_President)" produced by the Club of Rome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_of_Rome) who use the FRAUDULENT "REPORT" to justify (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113012-The-Depopulation-Plan) all kinds of Tyranny, Undemocratic Technocracy (https://technocracy.news), Totalitarian "Global Governance", Pushing Endless Unjust Wars, Mass Poisoning, Mass Genetic Experiments (indirect forced mass sterilizations) violating all 10 Nuremberg Code of Medical Ethics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code), Toxic Overt & Covert Geoengineering (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?116926-The-Dimming-2021), Over The Top Control-Freaks (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120761-The-nature-of-evil-in-the-modern-world&p=1548367&viewfull=1#post1548367) using anything to justify more insanity sold as "the new normal" and counting on gullible people (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120761-The-nature-of-evil-in-the-modern-world&p=1548367&viewfull=1#post1548367) to blindly believe their propaganda!



Overpopulation (a myth) has been exposed & debunked many times (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113012-The-Depopulation-Plan) on Project Avalon. For one, they suppress revolutionary inventions that could solve almost all environmental problems ... We could go to other exoplanets much faster, but they will not share that kind of technology & insights to the world. Deliberately keeping the masses dumb about it.


When a full-grown Apple tree is blossoming and bear fruit, it will expand ... just like humanity is destined to do the same in space thus will live somewhere other than Earth ... the last time I checked the universe in big enough for that to happen same goes for Earth itself with new technology it can easily have 10 times more humans on Earth but they "forget" to mention the ones that created these FRAUDULENT doom reports are connected to the same power that be that suppress & criminalize reals solutions & alternative cures. Creating artificial scarcity is one of many tactics how they keep themselves in control of humanity, and they need gullible "good people (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120761-The-nature-of-evil-in-the-modern-world&p=1548367&viewfull=1#post1548367)" to stay dumb about what is really going on ... without the help of gullible "good people (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120761-The-nature-of-evil-in-the-modern-world&p=1548367&viewfull=1#post1548367)" spreading their doom propaganda they have no chance to stay in control that long.

What if they think they can "justify" mass sterilization "side" effects through mass (semi-)forced vaccination programs, because it is in their view the "most humane" way to depopulate the Earth ... a "necessary" sacrifice for the "greater good" ??? ... also falsely assuming "doing nothing" about their alleged "overpopulation bomb" suppose to be much worse than being 100% benevolent, safe & honest to the people.




What if they think they can "justify" mass sterilization "side" effects through mass (semi-)forced vaccination programs, because it is in their view the "most humane" way to depopulate the Earth ... a "necessary" sacrifice for the "greater good" ??? ... also falsely assuming "doing nothing" about their alleged "overpopulation bomb" suppose to be much worse than being 100% benevolent, safe & honest to the people.

cheers,
John

Yes John that may well be the way the Cabal sees it.
People will die for a cause they believe in.
They are not scared of being found out or Nuremberg trial.

The thing is nature takes care of it and reduces the population periodically

There have been quite a few near extinction events documented --its cyclic, so it seems.
Suspicious Observers worth looking at.

Chris

Yes I think this is where the difficulties of talking about all this with other people comes from - the sheer numbers of 'elite' and political / medical figures involved that are colluding at an international level - and don't spend time twiddling their invisible mustaches laughing manically - mwhahahahaha - reflecting on their evil plot - they are, in reality behaving as if they are doing nothing wrong because they don't believe they are doing anything wrong and this conveys itself to (the majority of?) the masses... who then can't believe the whole covid thing is a trick... can't believe they would be told such a monstrous lie...

Indeed many of the international co~conspirators might think they are being noble and selfless to push the depopulation thing forward - living with the burden of the lie - saving the planet or so they will try to daily convince themselves..

BUT

what they are doing is totally unethical and the collateral damage turns them into mass murderers -

They are walking a very fine line with the darkness of their secrets on the brink of engulfing them at any moment... leading them closer and closer to the more hardcore Satanic Forces -

We are NOT "overpopulated" for so many reasons ... (international) mismanagement is one of them!

If humanity were not unnecessarily attacked on their health on sooooooo many levels last decades (including erratic pulse microwaves) and real (revolutionary) solutions (suppressed inventions) not be criminalized, silenced or covered up.



Imagine a farmer crippling its livestock then "complaining" they do not walk fast enough!


Part of humanity is destined to go to (live on) other planets, thus making more space here anyway! ... How many different aliens are already interacting with us and could help us not to stay on Earth? Just like a flower seeding elsewhere ... Earth can do the same but the Psychopathic Technocrats (control freaks) do everything in their power to sabotage that to keep us here (mentally, emotionally & physically) sick, compromised & enslaved on purpose to have a EXCUSE to claim we are "overpopulated".

Almost all natural solutions are dismissed by so-called "international authorities" (like W.H.O.) we all being forced in to Agenda 2030 to be artificially micromanaged serving The Great (Dystopian) Reset. All who can expose their false "justifications" for their Tyranny will be dealt with via new insane (unconstitutional) laws & regulations enforced by other slaves helping the status quo.

"The end justifies the means" ... they will use ANY EXCUSE to push their tyrannical dystopian agenda, and the (false perception) "overpopulation bomb" is one of them.

--o-O-o--

We live in a world where we have Hijacked Governments legalizing Corporate Crimes and Criminalizing Real Solutions like:



Suppressed Inventions
HEMP Revolution
Forbidden Cures
Study amongst others the Documentary "When Healing Becomes a Crime".


Do you know they can turn a Desert in to an Oases using "Super Absorbers" small pallets mixing it in the earth then use fewer than normal water to start farming?

Do you know they can now convert Seawater in to Drinking water in a cheap way?

In coming decades humans (not with help from aliens) can build 100s of (hurricane proof) giant self-sustainable floating cities and 2/3 of Earth is covered with water ... any idea how much space/room that is? If official CONTACT with Aliens are made, 1000s of new ideas are possible to build new cities. I ask you again, how big is 2/3 of the Earth? "Not enough space"? ... Did you know that Australia or The State of Texas can manage 7 Billion people with the correct (suppressed) technology?

There are 100s of practical solutions, IF we all were managed more honestly we would not have ANY problems feeding everybody. Now most farmers are punished & attacked by UN Food rules (intensives, mandates, insane food regulations etc. etc.) all to serve a Worldwide PUSH for Toxic GMO Food Agenda! (obvious part of NWO Depopulation Agenda).

We are "managed" by corrupt & insane psychopaths when it comes to food. And it is global.

Study: corrupt Codex Alimentarius (https://rumble.com/vmrlju-codex-alimentarius.html) run by over the top control freaks!



Would Abuse of Power on a Massive Scale be Possible Without These 25 Points? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120716-Would-Abuse-of-Power-on-a-Massive-Scale-be-Possible-Without-These-25-Points)
What the Heck is Communitarianism? Normalizing Insanity 24-7 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120835-What-the-Heck-is-Communitarianism-Normalizing-Insanity-24-7&p=1549946#post1549946)
Crime Theorists 'Crowdsourcing Network' Gaining Momentum? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120793-Crime-Theorists-Crowdsourcing-Network-Gaining-Momentum)
The Psychology of Totalitarianism (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?119992-The-Psychology-of-Totalitarianism)
Top 30 Side-Effects of Unjust Lock-downs! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110874-Top-30-Side-Effects-of-the-Unjust-Lock-down--by-John-Kuhles)
(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110874-Top-30-Side-Effects-of-the-Unjust-Lock-down--by-John-Kuhles)
It Is Official: We All Are Under Mass Hypnosis ... But Some Are Immune To The Mass Conditioning!
(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?116661-It-is-official-We-all-are-under-mass-hypnosis-...-but-some-are-immune-to-the-mass-conditioning-)
What is worse? ... (Summarizing 2020) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111519-What-is-worse-...--Summarizing-2020-)
Twelve Years 1933-1945 vs Twelve Years 2020-2032 (Draft by John Kuhles) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113523-Twelve-Years-1933-1945-vs-Twelve-Years-2020-2032--Draft-by-John-Kuhles-)
The Depopulation Plan (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113012-The-Depopulation-Plan)
Biggest Threat To Financial Freedom is CBDC (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120026-Biggest-Threat-To-Financial-Freedom-is-CBDC)
The Final War - The 100-Year Plot - [Documentary] (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120220-The-Final-War-The-100-Year-Plot-Documentary)
'Climate Lockdowns' are Coming (Agenda2030) Predicted by Conspiracy Researchers! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115447-Climate-Lockdowns-are-Coming--Agenda2030--Predicted-by-Conspiracy-Researchers-)
Look Who's Coming to the "Rescue"! Bill Gates... (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110573-Look-Who-s-Coming-to-the-Rescue--Bill-Gates...)
Top 10 Creepiest Most Dystopian Things Pushed By The World Economic Forum (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118748-Top-10-Creepiest-Most-Dystopian-Things-Pushed-By-The-World-Economic-Forum)
The 'Great (Dystopian) Reset' (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111148-The-Great-Reset)
Nanotechnology: the Big Mammoth in the Room! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118654-Nanotechnology-the-Big-Mammoth-in-the-Room-)
Cashless Society in 2030? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118335-Cashless-Society-in-2030)
Stop 5G before it's irreversible! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100537-Stop-5G-before-it-s-irreversible-)
When an Accusation like 'Controlled Opposition' loses its value! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117528-When-an-Accusation-like-Controlled-Opposition-loses-its-value-)
Suppressed Inventions Research - My Story (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117915-Suppressed-Inventions-Research-My-Story)
Does 'The Great Dystopian Reset' have a 'Plan B' for Agenda 2030 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117358-Does-The-Great-Dystopian-Reset-have-a-Plan-B-for-Agenda-2030)
Imagine A Real "Sanctuary Country" for Millions of Conspiracy (Suppressed News) Researchers! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110914-Imagine-A-Real-Sanctuary-Country-for-Millions-of-Conspiracy-Researchers-)


--o-O-o--



Has there ever been a public debate with professionals, scientists & specialists about "how to solve the (falsely) ASSUMED overpopulation (https://web.archive.org/web/20220818080906/https://www.overpopulationmyth.com/) problem" anywhere, anytime in Mainstream Media? ... Anyone? ... and what about other countries?


If not, why not? ... Do they fear us waking up to them ... their true agenda?

https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/v1/user/27474914.f5b631e7.160x160o.f6c78faaf102@2x.png (https://whynotnews.eu/)

cheers,
John Kuhles (https://whynotnews.eu/) aka 'ExomatrixTV'
March 31st, 2023 🦜🦋🌳

See also: overpopulationisamyth.com (http://overpopulationisamyth.com)
Related: ClimateScare-Agenda2030 (http://tinyurl.com/ClimateScare-Agenda2030)

100% related topic:
1639919164813967361


POPULATION:
Though there is no doubling in SOCIALIST countries (thanks to the genocidal nature of socialism), nonSocialist countries are still cranking out progeny. Some at a 17 year doubling rate (OMG!). The current world average is about 50 years.

GREYING OF EUROPE:
Due to the demographic crisis caused by socialism, European nations are actively importing surplus populations from incompatible cultures. Ironically, these new immigrants often become recipients and drag down the system even more. The fast growing aged and infirm population is not matched by the growth in young taxpayers, due to the drop in birthrates. This will not bode well for either group. America's own crisis is partly masked by the large influx of illegal aliens / undocumented workers.

SUICIDAL ENVIRONMENTAL PRESERVATION:
The environMENTALISTS are locked into a suicidal mindset that "wildlife habitat" is good and "human habitat" is bad. Worse, they oppose engineering the habitat, even when the result is more abundant life. Their pursuit of a mythical status quo will destroy more life than preserve it.

It is stipulated that "human - only" habitat is wasteful. But the need to "amplify" or thicken the life bearing volume is part of the solution. And humans do that better than any other biological entity (beavers and trees don't compare). The simple paradigm shift would be to reserve some of the floorspace area to wildlife habitat. Imagine a skyscraper of 100 stories, where 30% of the surface area is reserved for wildlife habitat, zoological preserves, etc. This could be in the form of a helical ramp on the exterior, coupled with strategic "caves" (inserts) that extend into the "human space".
Net result is 30 times as much surface area is available for wildlife than what the foundation took out of circulation.
And the wildlife habitat is segregated from direct human contact, for optimum results.

ENGINEERING WATERWAYS:
Hydroelectric power generation is the MOST efficient (90% or more) as well as least polluting (& sustainable). By some estimates, the total watershed of the USA has the potential for generating 125% of current consumption / generation. And since hydro is only about 6% of total capacity, we could literally DOUBLE our capacity.

Problem #1 - environMENTALISTS are determine to block new dams, as well as demolish existing ones. (Suicidal, aren't they?)
It is stipulated that the early dam designs were NOT conducive to more abundant life, not unlike skyscrapers. However, that is easily remedied in the design phase. A TVA style engineered watershed would probably have hydropower plants on high head dams on tributaries (which act as flood control reservoirs) while low head dams (w/locks) are situated on the main branches for enhanced navigation capability (the most efficient form of transportation, no less). With an addition of fish ladders and other means for natural migration, the engineered waterways would vastly increase the life bearing capacity. The stabilized shoreline alone would increase habitat potential. (See: TVA history and the scouring of the shoreline by flooding)

Problem #2 - Potable water. It is becoming more and more apparent that fresh water is becoming the next resource in great demand. Underground aquifers are being drained at an alarming rate. Some lakes have been completely eradicated. (ex: Aral Sea : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea)
Establishing more reservoirs is vital - just ask Californians after the recent atmospheric river "event".

GOVERNMENT MEDDLING:
When a government subsidizes waste and penalizes frugality, the end result is never good.

Case in point : railroads (steel wheel on steel rail) have a 20:1 advantage over pneumatic tire on pavement. In other words, for a given load of passengers and or cargo, a train uses 1/20 the power (95% savings) versus a truck or bus on the road.
Most are unaware how the competition colluded with government to destroy America's once premier rail system that spanned urban, interurban, as well as fast passenger and heavy freight. (In the 1930s, there were regularly scheduled trains that had 120mph average speeds).
Thanks to conspiracies, regulatory abuse, and taxation, Americans went "off track."
(Total track mileage went from 350,000 to less than 160,000)

Some of the reasons were greed. Some spite. (One railroad company, the Pennsylvania railroad, was the richest corporation in the world, and had a budget second only to the federal government. Imagine when you tallied up all railroads! Thanks to government, it went bankrupt in the 1970s, and spun off CONrail and AMtrak, which for some odd reason is a money loser. Leave it to government to foul up the most efficient form of transport)

Municipalities often placed fare caps on streetcar companies, while increasing taxation. What can a business do if it can't pass cost increases to its customer? Decline, sell out or go bust - which many did.
Railroad rights of way were often taxed at ridiculous rates, while road rights of way were taxpayer subsidized. This often resulted in RR companies abandoning priceless rights of way, to save on taxes.
Barring an engineering breakthrough, railroading is still the most efficient form of land transport, whether standard, urban light rail, subway, funicular, cogwheel or suspended monorail. A transition of 80% of transport to rail (electric traction) would cut fuel consumption and thus boost the standard of living dramatically. (Current private automobile ownership costs 23-27% of a family's budget, including covert taxes)

USURERS:
Suffice to say that any instrumentality of usury (banks, stock corporations, insurance underwriters (gamblers), etc) is engaged in destructive behavior. If government ceased extending privileges and protections, things might recover.

ANTHROPOGENIC CLIMATE CHANGE HOAX:
Yes, climate changes, due to the sun, tilt in Earth's orbit, nutation, axial wobble, and a host of other factors, known and unknown. Yes, human activity has some impact, but hardly the amount the alarmists claim. (Which involves any weather anomaly being called "climate change")

How do we know it's a hoax?
Based on measured albedo, the planet's atmosphere bounces back 30%, cooling the planet. Temperatures at the international space station or lunar surface show that fact.
There is no "heat trapping" when the absence of atmosphere is far hotter.
(IN fact, the "greenhouse effect" is misrepresented. An opaque object like a metal can, if left in the sun, will 'heat up' warmer than ambient temperature. A glass greenhouse merely blocks convection losses. Plus, so-called greenhouse gases have a higher emissivity - radiating more heat into space - thus cooling the planet)
Carbon sequestration is a gigantic joke. A trace gas, vital to the survival of plants, is not the cause. In fact, the famous "hockey stick" graph plainly shows the increase in CO2 following the increase in temperature. The effect cannot precede the cause!!!

IF the "smart money" really believed in AGCC, they'd be dumping their seashore properties, building superinsulated houses, and shift to the most efficient forms of transportation (rail & water) wherever possible.
But they aren't. And the push for BEVs is a solid indication of more insanity - subsidy of waste, at a time we can't afford it.

SUGGESTED SOLUTION -

Get government out of the way. Folks tend to gravitate to the most frugal methods, when left on their own.
As my old boss said, "I'm in business to earn money - not spend it."

[ozmirage]

Money Madness Quiz
How much money should a mother earn for taking good care of her child?
- - -
Uh, well, wait. . . you can't "buy" that!

So why should our prosperity be hostage to the sum and value of circulating money tokens? Or that those who possess a surplus of money can command us to serve them?
Prosperity is based upon prodigious production of surplus usable goods and services, equitably traded and enjoyed.
Money tokens have nothing to do with that.

Once humanity ceases being fascinated with "making money" and shifts to making surplus, a lot of problems will resolve themselves.

[ozmirage]

"In every deliberation, we must consider the impact on the seventh generation... even if it requires having skin as thick as the bark of a pine."
- - - Great Law of the Iroquois

CULTURE CLASH
Regardless of one’s own subjective view of preferable lifestyle, there are mutually exclusive forms of culture and behavior.
1. Migratory hunters / gatherers
2. Nomadic herdsmen
3. Settled farmers

There is no simple solution for all three lifestyles to co-exist on a section of land. Nor is all land suitable.

Is there a moral imperative for settled farmers to exclude the other two cultures from its boundaries? Yes. To allow nomadic herdsmen to run their flocks and herds through his farm would destroy his crops. Likewise, migratory hunters / gatherers hunting his livestock and gathering his crops, would be destructive to the farmer.

Thus we see the fundamental conflict that underpins any examination of history.

• Hunter / gatherers prey on the property of herders and farmers.
• Herders oppose fenced farmland and barriers to their flocks, and defend against predators.
• Farmers oppose and defend against herders and hunter / gatherer societies. They require exclusive use of their land.

The next question: which lifestyle supports the most people per unit of land?
It is self evident that farming “improved” land supports the most people, followed by nomadic herders, and then the hunter / gatherer.

Whatever our personal preferences are, for the most abundant life, we have to accept settled farmers as the foundation. (Thanks to the European farmers, there are more descendants of American Indians today, than what could be supported by the whole continent of hunter / gatherers.)

CITIES
The city represents efficiency, reducing the distance and time between producers and customers, and enhances prosperity. The problem is that if we wish to plan for the seventh generation, we also need space for agriculture.
Every doubling of population requires a doubling of food production.

If our yield per area (acre or hectare) is not expandable, then we have to stop consuming arable land for suburban sprawl.
Consolidation of population in towns, cities and megalopolises is one remedy. We may also try to incorporate as much wildlife habitat enhancement as well as agriculture (perhaps roof top gardens?).
In short, we have to "thicken" the life bearing volume of the finite surface area, for more abundant life - human and wildlife.
We have to change our mindset from "making money" to more abundant life and more opulent lifestyle. Instead of making land "pay for itself" we have to manifest a new vision of multiple ecologies and habitats co-existing and thriving.


[Addendum: The Dept of Interior calculated that a hunter-gatherer required 10 sq. mi. to support himself. Whereas a farmer may support 4 to 11 people per acre (depending on the crop). This translates to one hunter-gatherer versus up to 70,400 people per 10 sq.mi. Who do you think has the most beneficial lifestyle for more abundant life? Do the lives of the 70,399 outweigh relocating the one?]

[ozmirage]

Contrary to the doom and gloomers, who only see the worst aspects, there is GREAT HOPE for the future.

Humanity can achieve great things, provide more habitat for more abundant life, on Earth and in the Heavens.

"Out There" is immense expansion room, raw materials, power 24/7, and opportunity.

There are options undreamt of by visionaries and fiction writers. One of them is the ability to "surf gravity" by utilizing the Interplanetary Transport Network. It's slow - but cheap (little or no fuel). It's ideal for large autonomous self sufficient colonies. Future travellers might only need to "hitch hike" on colonies that are in transit orbits that intersect destinations -or- just other colonies.

From an old NASA page:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120219082348/http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/Basics/wwwwh.html
“The key advantage of space settlements is the ability to build new land, rather than take it from someone else. This allows a huge expansion of humanity without war or destruction of Earth's biosphere. The asteroids alone provide enough material to make new orbital land hundreds of times greater than the surface of the Earth, divided into millions of colonies. This land can easily support trillions of people.”- - -
- - -
Let's stop fighting over a bigger slice of the "pie."
Bake more "pies"...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120922-ChatGPT-AI-conquers-the-Martians--&p=1552333&viewfull=1#post1552333

[Blastolabs]

I had to do it

CNQpYz1ztx8

[ozmirage]

If the 8 billion people currently alive pledged 1% of their surplus labor to fund mining asteroids, to use in the construction of massive orbital habitats and vivariums, we'd rapidly colonize outer space. The construction of giant habitats can multiply far faster than humans reproduce, thus ending forever the pressures of war - lack of resources and "living room."

("How Much Is That?" Using money madness, we might low ball the labor at $8/hr x 2080hr/yr x 0.01 x 8 billion = 1.33 trillion dollar bills)
And if they pledged 10%, that's 13.3 trillion dollar bills - whoops - that amount does not exist.

Well, let's use barter, and man-hours of labor, amplified by tools and machines.
8 billion x 2080hrs x 0.1 = 1.66 trillion man hours devoted to space colonization.

800 million man-years.
Per Year.

WOWZA.

(If a "typical house" incorporates one man year of labor, 800 million man-years computes to 800 million houses / year. If each house held 4 occupants, that's enough housing for 3.2 billion people. Of course, the more automation and mass production is involved, the higher the surplus generated. . . with just 10% of available labor, suitably amplified / multiplied.)

NASA's budget was $24.04 billion for fiscal year (FY) 2022
Not implying that government administered space colonization is desirable, but if NASA had $1,330 billion to spend, imagine the possibilities.


What could we do with 1.33 trillion dollar bills worth of space launches?
https://futurism.com/spacex-launch-cost-less-nasa
SpaceX and Elon Musk are aiming to get costs down to $2 million per launch, and have up to 100 passengers per launch, thus reducing the cost to $20,000 each.
1.33 trillion dollars could fund launching 66,650,000 solarnauts... per year.

[ozmirage]

But BEFORE we launch 66 million colonists - - - -
We need to build a few "empties".

It is currently estimated that there are about 1,000 Earth-crossing asteroids larger than 1 km (0.6 mile). Assuming that we seed them with self replicating autonomous fabricators (“Queen Ants”), to mine, refine, and construct parts for hulls, habitats and storage tanks; each costing $20M; how many factories can we build and ship with 10% of 1.33 trillion?
6,650 fabricators for 1,000 asteroids.

There are over 711 asteroids with a value exceeding $100 trillion if you do a certain, simple kind of math based on their metal content. Those could be seeded, too. Their large source of materials would take a very long time to exhaust... perhaps thousands of years.

Comets are a great source of frozen water, and come past Earth's orbit, simplifying access.

Basically, all the materials we need are already available - heavy metals - hydrogen, oxygen, rocky non-metallic asteroids, moons covered in methane (rocket fuel!), and so on.

[Anchor]

But BEFORE we launch 66 million colonists - - - -
We need to build a few "empties".

It is currently estimated that there are about 1,000 Earth-crossing asteroids larger than 1 km (0.6 mile). Assuming that we seed them with self replicating autonomous fabricators (“Queen Ants”), to mine, refine, and construct parts for hulls, habitats and storage tanks; each costing $20M; how many factories can we build and ship with 10% of 1.33 trillion?
6,650 fabricators for 1,000 asteroids.

There are over 711 asteroids with a value exceeding $100 trillion if you do a certain, simple kind of math based on their metal content. Those could be seeded, too. Their large source of materials would take a very long time to exhaust... perhaps thousands of years.

Comets are a great source of frozen water, and come past Earth's orbit, simplifying access.

Basically, all the materials we need are already available - heavy metals - hydrogen, oxygen, rocky non-metallic asteroids, moons covered in methane (rocket fuel!), and so on.

Humanity must recognize that it can live in abundance already, but the actions of evil minded people work against it right now.

We will not leave the planet until we (re)learn to live in harmony with nature. Those who monitor us, will not be likely to allow us to leave with a trail of trash behind us - such that we go and pollute more than just the earth.

We are supposed to be here on Earth, we need to learn how not to mess it up.

The new paradigm we are going into is not "out there" it is here and now.

[Jim_Duyer]

By all means - let's pack up all of our troubles and mistakes and shift them off planet. Your idea that we are all, in reality, one people, is something that I have believed for quite some time.

[ozmirage]

Humanity must recognize that it can live in abundance already, but the actions of evil minded people work against it right now.
Agreed. Right NOW. Not necessarily in 3 to 5 "doublings" of population.


We will not leave the planet until we (re)learn to live in harmony with nature. Those who monitor us, will not be likely to allow us to leave with a trail of trash behind us - such that we go and pollute more than just the earth.
DISAGREE. "Harmony with nature" sounds like "preserve the STATUS QUO". BAD IDEA.
The goal of life is more abundant life - not some imaginary steady state condition. Life is either expanding, or contracting toward extinction.
And due to the finite surface area of the Earth, we need to "thicken" the life bearing volume.
As for trash, that is relative. One man's trash is another man's treasure. There are obstacles that prevent that resolution to the waste product issue, but it's not extraterrestrial related. (My favorite "trash story" was the discovery that coal tar, a nasty waste product of coking coal for steel production, could be turned into a vast number of products, ranging from aniline dyes to aspirin. From "Connections" by James Burke)


We are supposed to be here on Earth, we need to learn how not to mess it up.
The new paradigm we are going into is not "out there" it is here and now.Disagree. We may have started here on Earth, but there's no reason NOT to fill the heavens with more abundant life. If the extraterrestrials oppose more abundant life, then THEY are the problem, not humanity.
= = = =
We can observe "natural" thickening of the life bearing volume of the finite surface area:
_ beaver dams _ trees _ subterranean fungi and microbes. They all increase the available volume for life to inhabit.

But none of those can match the potential that humans have.

Rice terraces in Bali:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnvmwkqYriIW0nFN-B_ljODLoakP_LR7EKOg&usqp=CAU


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTq7YWcQ9nAli1JrooA3Lj_rTn-6QeXyoV7ow&usqp=CAU


(Terracing steep mountainsides is a "good thing" - reducing water run off and erosion - preserving habitat)

Harnessing technology to that purpose is a "good thing." The current problem is that "money mad" people limit that expansion to "make money" and not "more abundant life." In contrast, if architects and engineers were given the goal of more abundant life, for wildlife as well as human habitat, the possibilities are immense.
- - - - -

Obscure but interesting point - - - "solar saturation"
(http://www.whale.to/a/blume.html)
and find it corroborated in the following PDF.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201200218/pdf
Solar saturation is the point at which a plant's photosynthetic machinery is overwhelmed by excess sunlight and shuts down.
...........
" Photosynthesis is most efficient at low light intensities. It is already saturated at 20% of full sunlight and 80% of the light is not used."
{This supports high density planting as a viable strategy.}
{Vertical planters are also more efficient than horizontal planters.}
In polycultural agriculture (versus monoculture farming), plants shade each other, and thus out perform the "full sun" crops.
When it becomes more important to generate more food per surface area, this fact should be taken into consideration.

Long duration, but low intensity light, is instrumental in the growth of "giant" vegetables in Alaska.
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"What makes these veggies so massive you ask? A big part of the answer is the highly unique growing conditions created by Alaska's climate. Steven Brown, an Agricultural Agent at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, explained that Alaskan growers enjoy 20 hours a day of sunlight during the summer months. This gives Alaskan produce a longer photosynthesis window each day, resulting in more plant material and a sweeter taste."
50725
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CANADIAN ARCTIC GARDENING

https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-nature-of-things/24-hour-sunlight-in-the-high-arctic-grows-the-biggest-vegetables-1.6092927




"LIVE WALL" vertical garden

https://livewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Vertical-Stripes-of-Coleus-Lemon-Grass-Purple-Pennisetum-and-Dichondra-400x267.jpg
https://web.archive.org/web/20111222010334/http://greenupgrader.com/16857/3-gorgeous-vertical-gardens/


https://web.archive.org/web/20111222010334im_/http://greenupgrader.com/files/2011/08/vertical-farm.jpg


"Indoor" Outdoors Apartment Farming
https://web.archive.org/web/20111229054316im_/http://greenupgrader.com/files/2011/08/vertical-garden.png
Humans should be doing everything possible to amplify the life bearing volume of the finite surface area - building down and up - through mountains - above and below water - terracing mountains - dam rivers - and so on.
The big difference is to evolve from "making the land pay" to "more abundant life - for wildlife, agriculture and human habitat"

"Reefer Madness" - Off shore oil rig becomes new habitat for crustaceans and fish

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSB4DbWmMJEYpXDQ-iHFeY4yCrnRp4a12lnFQ&usqp=CAU

Providing a framework in the upper regions of the ocean, generates more abundant life. Is that a "bad thing"?
Imagine long spurs of piers jutting into the ocean, with housing above, and fish habitat below.

[ozmirage]

DURATION OF LIGHT is more important than INTENSITY OF LIGHT.


The "NEXT" revolution in food production may be within urban areas, via "factory farming."
HORIZONTAL VS VERTICAL HYDROPONICS
Vertical plane versus horizontal plane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5VU2kSakx8


https://web.archive.org/web/20160330223927/https://blog.brightagrotech.com/vertical-farming-costs-and-the-math-behind-them/ (https://blog.brightagrotech.com/vertical-farming-costs-and-the-math-behind-them/)

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We will not leave the planet until we (re)learn to live in harmony with nature. Those who monitor us, will not be likely to allow us to leave with a trail of trash behind us - such that we go and pollute more than just the earth.
DISAGREE. "Harmony with nature" sounds like "preserve the STATUS QUO". BAD IDEA.
The goal of life is more abundant life - not some imaginary steady state condition. Life is either expanding, or contracting toward extinction.


We are supposed to be here on Earth, we need to learn how not to mess it up.
The new paradigm we are going into is not "out there" it is here and now.Disagree. We may have started here on Earth, but there's no reason NOT to fill the heavens with more abundant life. If the extraterrestrials oppose more abundant life, then THEY are the problem, not humanity.

Thanks. Your responses made me realize I needed to word what I said better.

I did not mean maintaining status quo when I said we need to live in harmony with nature. I think we need to reverse a lot of damage we have caused, and restore the planet to one that works with nature rather than trying to overcome it. Harmony in this sense is about maintaining a balance. I'm 15 years into living on a hobby farm that started out bland and now parts of it resemble a large garden - this is not status quo but along the way, have tried to not do things that could be harmful.

On the second part you are right to disagree.

When I said "we are meant to be on Earth" and "we will not leave until" I had a wider context in my head that I failed to express. I believe we (at least those who are not evil / service-to-self types) are hear for a reason, to resolve some problems that have been caused that threaten the planet and pursuant to that "mission" we are supposed to be here performing it and not running away to the stars.

TBH, those that monitor us implies some kind of galactic police force, but I don't really mean that so I will elaborate. Only the thoughtless or evil among us would want to leave the planet with a trail of trash behind us.... the rest of us police ourselves.

I agree there is no reason for us not to leave the planet, but this will come in time. I'm pretty sure I leave this planet every time I go to sleep - no dependency here.

I like your trash story. I have a big problem with trash actually - to the extent that I long for the time when you could almost all of what you needed from the shops in glass containers and get money back when you returned them. I really hate plastic and all the consumer deception that came along with them. There a lot of ways to solve the trash problem!

I also like the threads you have been posting on and adding to on Avalon recently.