The rise of shoplifting everywhere.

[mizo]

I was in my local Lidl store today.

As I was shopping- I watched as a couple of young women walk into and then waltz around the store boldly removing various items from the shelves, and placing items into pockets their over-sized clothing.

The store security guard and the store staff just watched as they brazenly walked out of the store without paying or even batting an eyelid.

This type of casual theft seems to be the norm nowadays and it's happening all around my home city and across the country.

The MSM recently reported in the UK it's estimated that shoplifting will cost retailers around £1 billion this year.

I do kinda get it with the cost of living crises, UK poverty campaigners say some theft is born of desperation that people have to eat to survive, if I had nothing then I would go at every option to feed my family.

One fact that surprised me is that there's an exponential rise with 'Middle-class shoplifting' usually the people that're wealthier that can afford to pay for their shopping are huge part of the shoplifting trend; taking advantage of self-checkout tills seems to be the way to avoid paying for pricier items in their shopping basket.

Organised crime gangs are also running the 1000's of daily shop thefts as they know there's hardly police investigations and they're taking advantage of threadbare policing.

My thoughts are given the grand scheme considering all proposed dystopian agendas worldwide - the obvious lack of policing or low rate convictions to these so-called crimes, plays into the hands of those who want digital identities, money and so on.

[Lunesoleil]

I can't believe the security guards didn't do anything.
Besides that, the associations are going out of their way to satisfy a greater number of people in despair. These associations carry out collection operations in supermarkets, one of them told me that there were a lot fewer people donating and more and more people in precariousness. Let us pray for them, poverty has always existed at all times. It's just our time that doesn't understand that this still exists in a society that has reached
pinnacle of capitalist :yield:

[shaberon]

Here's what we used to do to shoplifters: anything. Stuff them in a dumpster, hit them in the head with a baseball bat, whatever.

Currently, the reaction is "nothing".

My employer tells me to basically do nothing, while, yes, we have a few regular moochers, and, in general, the same thing is going on everywhere.

Most of these employers are corporations that have nothing really to do with their actual operations, which are merely "appearances" compared to the "reality" of financial reports.

Ever see this happen at the farmers' market?

Strangely, there is a Lidl about twenty minutes from here. Is this mom and pop selling items they produced about twenty minutes away?

Um, no.

To earn sympathy, you must be sole proprietorship/partnership, co-op, or at most LLC.

In turn, the corporation just raises prices for paying customers.

This is a multi-faceted problem, which around here we filed under "victims have no rights".

Shoot someone who's attacking you, and you will probably get sued and lose. Stop a shoplifter, and you have assaulted them and will be prosecuted by the state. I guess you are supposed to surrender to the form of "protection" that is being offered, whatever that is.

Overall, the trend of it getting too expensive to eat normally informs us that our system is very nearly worthless.

Enforced, servile dependency is not something I favor.

I don't actually know of any mafias reduced to petty crimes. Some goods are stolen with a resell outlet in mind, but this is perhaps fairly minor compared to other factors.

Lottery winners continue to use food stamps.

Food is subject to every kind of variable, whereas we won't see the same thing if we go into a pet store and examine the removal of flea collars.

Shoplifting would decrease, on its own, if the society knew how to provide, but it doesn't, so I would expect a sharp increase from the current levels.

[Matthew]

Yesterday or the day before I went to one of the 24/7 petrol stations close to me and one staff said to the other: "We've just had another shop-lifter". He said it with a nervous energy, kind of jovial way, but not happy. Like it upset him but he was powerless.

Even in the 90's, as a young lad, when I worked at a shop, we were told not to stop them because our lives were worth much more than the stock they stole. It wasn't a public policy though. Maslow's Heir achy of Needs is a crude expression of human needs, breaking it down to cartoon grade semantics, but it illustrates stuff well enough.

And not adding anything new to the thread but expressing the same that's been said already using these cartoon semantics, when we fall off one slat to the one below it's quite stressful, even if we're falling off one of the top ones.

https://i.postimg.cc/RZHww09z/image.png

[leavesoftrees]

I was talking to a woman last week who used to work in the meat section on one of Australia's largest supermarkets. She said shop lifting is out of control. Staff are not allowed to touch any customer, so it's open slather. One customer comes in regularly and shoves best cut quality meeting down her pants, shirt front, bag, anywhere - at least $300 at a time and walks out the door while security just watches her. this meat is not to feed her starving family, it's to pay the drug dealer for the next hit. Same happens in bottle shops - you call them off license in the UIK - people walk in and waltz out with a slab of beer or a carton of finest malt scotch, nodding g'day to the teller

[TravelerJim]

I would make the arguement that this is part of "The Plan". It helps break down society and the rule of law so you can "Build Back Better", possibly along the lines of Eric Schmidt's Smart City concept. Theft like this is hollowing out US cities like SF, NYC, Chicago, etc. This is not by accident.....

[shaberon]

Even in the 90's, as a young lad, when I worked at a shop, we were told not to stop them because our lives were worth much more than the stock they stole.


Here, the shoplifting was already such a well-formed tradition that we would just do "whatever".

Then I worked with a lady whose son was the first we knew of to be killed in the middle of an armed robbery. Someone scarfing $2-300 from a till just shoots this guy point blank for no reason. His mom was not exactly in "one piece" after that.

I wouldn't personally "worry" that much about "shoplifting danger", but, now, we get so many public shootings that there is no longer room to say anything. You are perhaps more likely to get killed for doing nothing than by interrupting someone busy stuffing their pockets. It is only recently that I have learned you can work without access to multiple loaded guns. That means thousands of people are going about, due to my hand remaining a few inches away from a trigger.

That was also the time of the distribution of "bollards". I have shown up more than once to find a car parked inside the building. Not exactly "shoplifting" there either. In fact the last shoplifting I remember was committed by a former co-worker that everyone knew...

Most everything else is hearsay because these days I am kept occupied without any opportunity to observe anything.

With food, some of it is personal need, and yes, the "meat market" is usually for drug-related reselling. A few days ago, someone turned up something like 2.2 pounds of meth, and enough fentanyl to kill 500,000 people. That represents "organized crime", although I am pretty sure that a few t-bones and ribeyes are involved with the distribution to individuals.

It might be possible to get some stats from Portugal that indicate whether an open drug policy has much effect on shoplifting. I have seen it benefitted some areas, but I don't remember specifically this.

[s7e6e]

This behavior builds up enough reason for major food stores to only grant entry post authentication. Baby steps, you see.

[Kuperkai]

This behavior builds up enough reason for major food stores to only grant entry post authentication. Baby steps, you see.

PRECISELY. The decriminalization of "minor" crimes is a component of the Globalists' agenda and is step two of the Hegelian dialectic- Problem, Reaction, Solution.

Prior to the 1960s, America was primarily a high trust society. Outside of the big cities, people did not lock their doors and often left their keys in the car's ignition. Since then (thanks to Tavistock, Hollywood, etc) we have devolved into a low trust society.

The purpose of decriminalizing "minor" crimes is to take American society to a ZERO trust society. Once society has sufficiently degenerated and the masses cry out for political solutions, the Globalists will move to step three and offer up their zero trust biometric ID system- all monitored and tracked by AI systems that they control.

Like China, if you have a low social credit score you won't be able to use the train, leave your 15 minute city, fly on a plane, get a mortgage, or send your kids to a good school. As BlackRock CEO Larry Fink said a year ago (in reference to ESG), "You have to force behaviors, at Blackrock we are forcing behaviors." (https://rumble.com/vybdb7-blackrock-ceo-larry-fink-says-he-believes-in-forcing-behaviors..html)

I imagine the Globalists have plans for facial recognition as a prerequisite to entering approved stores like Walgreens and CVS. The small business owners who don't sign-up with Globalists AI approved ID systems will be robbed into poverty.

Don't believe me? Well, step three is already happening, outside of the USSA.

NZ retailers turn to facial recognition to stem surge in crime- Oct 5, 2023 | BiometricUpdate.com (https://archive.ph/YJQpY#selection-965.0-965.62)

UK Minister Wants Police Biometric Passport Database Searches to Catch Shoplifters- Oct 3, 2023 | ActivistPost.com (https://archive.ph/Njvkp#selection-613.4-613.86)

[Tintin]

:sing:

Really not intending to be trite at all here, but as a relevant "commercial break" one is reminded of this, which I have karaoke'd on a number of occasions. Yes, you read that right. Your erstwhile partially nerdy librarian has actually d.o.n.e k.a.r.a.o.k.e :p

I've also on occasion taken the artistic liberty of dropping in a "Shapeshifters of the world.." during my renditioning.

It's a barnstorming tune with probably one of the very best guitar breaks ever committed to vinyl; glorious in its simplicity and melody. One wonders whether any of the culprits examined here so far on this most interesting albeit mildly unnerving thread, have missed Morrissey's dry wit here. Enjoy:

The Smiths - Shoplifters Of The World Unite (Official Music Video)

lJRN76hxFz0

[Matthew]

...

Such an awesome song :clapping:. Morrissey gets into trouble because he accepts the bad news with his brutal self-awareness: e.g.: from the song How Soon Is Now; "There's this club if you'd like to go? You could meet someone who really loves you? So you go and you stand on your own, and you leave on your own, and you go home, and you cry and you want to die". ... SO raw.

Shoplifters of the World Unite isn't the only prophetic song by The Smiths, throw in their song "Panic". Nobody wants the bad news ahead of time so Morrissey gets into trouble, and everyone else is taken by surprise when the bad news hits them.

[Brigantia]

I'm in a job associated to retail and I know how widespread this is. The most bizarre thing I saw was an elderly man in a wheelchair, whizzing out of the store with the security guard in hot pursuit. The guard managed to stop him and retrieved two bottles of whisky!

Yes, it has become far more widespread with both the genuinely needy and the ones doing it because they can, and the numerous way in which they can steal is unbelievable. Staff can politely but firmly confront anyone but not put themselves at risk of harm. On barely above minimum wage, would you want to?

In the end everyone who pays for their shopping is a loser as the losses - now running into multi-millions - put up prices. When doing lockdown work on the shop floor* I found loads of bottle security tags tossed behind canned food, away from the booze section where there were cameras, and was told that you can buy gadgets to take off the security tags on Ebay.

* on the shop floor in a quite affluent area, I dreaded to think what it was like in inner cities.

[SilentFeathers]

This is just another symptom of the many symptoms we are now witnessing on a global scale that signals the beginning of a civilization in collapse.

For thousands of years several civilizations rose and fell, some of them we still as of today cannot explain why.

In 5 or 10 thousand years from now if there's still people on this planet, they'll find evidence of us from our time now and wonder why we all disappeared. They'll likely find remains of a hard drive with all the answers on it but not have a clue to exactly what it is and probably smash it to make a tool or something out of it.

Perhaps the true golden age is actually when all the corruption, greed, and evil is almost completely wiped out and there's only a few humans left to start all over again fresh and innocent from all of our wrongs of the past.......

[pyrangello]

All these crimes have been going on since time began except for the difference now is just letting people walk out without anybody saying a word. Thank the lawyers of the world for that and now the woke crowd ! Lets go back so me 40 + years ago when I lived in the detroit area as a kid. I knew a man who had 1 leg, he also drove his call girls around for extra business, Every week he and his gals would go to the grocery story, this guy with a long trench coat on and his gals with big coats and they would load up in the meat section, steaks, roasts , you name it would get stuffed in there coats before they walked out.

Then around the same time back in the late 70s I knew another guy whose brother worked at a grocery store, they locked his brother in at night to stock but didnt know he had a key to the back door.So Every saturday night they would drive behind the store with a van at 2 am and there would be 8 cases of meat, cigarettes, and pistachios. They finally had so much of this stuff they had to stop, they didnt know what to do with it all.

It isnt just just a problem with regular people , I remodeled retail stores for years around the U.S. . One furniture retailer I did work for had over 100 loading dock doors for shipping at their warehouse, one night someone drove a semi in and hooked up to a semi trailer full of leather furniture from italy. Never found it.

At another retail store an employee was filling the dumpster with new merchandise every week and then coming by at night and then loading up.

At an electronics retailers warehouse they had security very tight but during one year there they started missing laptops weekly. Come to find out an employee had cut out the back of there wall locker where they kept personal stuff and then carved the wall out behind that into the next building. This person was passing laptops thru the locker on a weekly basis til they got caught.

Things are getting worse as it gets tougher economically to live, and then there are those cities where its impossible to go to jail which encourages theft and discourages retailers to have a location in those areas. So much for the cycle of humanity that keeps going around and around, all this has been going on forever but the difference is there's more people and faster news travels on social media which makes many of us think everything is much worse now than what it use to be. Some of that is true.

I will add one more story which would probably help stop all of this , a buddy of mine owned a junk yard in Detroit, he caught a kid stealing some car parts one time, they put that kid in a steel 55 gallon barrel and hoisted it in the air with a rope. Then they beat the side of that barrel with 2 x 4 lumber for an hour. After they let that barrel down that kid swore he would never do that again. No trial, no attorney, no lawsuits, nuttin.

[shaberon]

It seems to me that both views are true, "thieves are everywhere" and "in the 60s Americans did not lock their doors".

I would say the second was true in the 80s and the difference to me was simply moving to the city, which, retrospectively, you would not have wanted to set foot in the 60s. I suppose the perception is a mix of the neighborhood you live in mixed with conditioning from outside sources.

After thinking about this, I noticed something rather strange. I saw a very detailed drawing of our store, in fact it turned out to be an architectural draft, very intricate. I wondered if this is how you catch shoplifters. You know what it was? Active shooter instructions!

That's right, in the middle of everything where it could have been something useful, it is a "what to do if" on a scale that you can barely see it. Is that a way to get us all killed? What the heck?? You'd die four times before you could find the word "exit" on this map. It actually is a lot more difficult than anything I have seen. Seems pretty serious though.

That one is a far worse idea when going among an armed populace.

Yeah, you can probably shoplift anything you can move, but if you start shooting, there is going to be less concern for the law or lawsuits and someone will shoot you.

That might not be the same everywhere. Around here, at a certain level of "problem", you just shoot it, so there might be slightly less concern or anxiety in general.

Consequently, there are not many cases of defensive shooters, because criminals want to choose weak victims.

I know one and it is not a "case", but it happened.

[pyrangello]

Here in Michigan it's a concealed carry state, there's many armed people walking around you and you would never have a clue. Law abiding people.

I also remember in the 60s and 70s my parents never locked their doors on our house living in the Detroit area. Now I know so many people that not only lock there doors but pull every shade in the house at night so nobody can see in or out. I think a lot of this has to do with the amount of people doing drugs these days. Even smoking weed and driving, you smell it all the time on the road now. And then there's the crime associated with stealing to buy your next drugs. Or just stealing because your so high there is no conscious.

I now live in a rural town of 3000 , this town is where the police will even drive you home if you have had to much to drink, where everyone knows everybody, where most or all homes have a gun in their home for protection. We still have all things discussed on this thread but it's very very small number of incidents .

Ah to be a kid again and not lock your doors, and if you got caught stealing as a kid , you got disciplined by parents that were not afraid of going to jail if they touched you.

And yes shaberon, then there's always the in the back of your mind a thought of a live shooter in a public place. Odds are like getting hit by a meteor or eaten by a shark if that happens, but never the less anything can happen these days. But there are more armed people these days such as that shooter 2 years ago came out of a bathroom at a mall in Indiana, shot 2 or 3 people until an armed shopper pulled out his pistol and shot him 8 or 10 times while that piece of crap tried to make it back to the bathroom so he wouldn't get shot anymore. He died , end of story.

[Brigantia]

There's one thing that these people who think it's a wheeze to go nicking from stores don't realise is that it could make them lose their job and become unemployable.

It's a common misconception that everyone gets away with it - people do get prosecuted for shoplifting. Where I work now I saw documentation for CCTV footage being passed to the police; cameras in stores now cover nearly all the aisles, so there is solid evidence of theft.

If you get prosecuted for shoplifting, you have a criminal record. Many jobs now require a CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) search to disclose whether or not you have committed any offences. Even if you are in a permanent job that requires one, they have to be renewed after 3 years IIRC. If you have a conviction for theft, that bars you from many jobs.

Many people don't realise that.

[norman]

I think Morrisons supermarket has been tweaking it's electronic security recently.

I pushed my trolley with about 25 pounds worth of groceries in it out of the door a few days ago and the alarm went off. I ignored it but a security guy came dashing out after me and grabbed my receipt slip off the top of the stuff in the bag in the trolley and had a hurried look at it while muttering a few fairly inert things. At first he mentioned a tag but quickly realised I had nothing in the bag that had ever had a tag on it, then he made excuses and said the alarm had been doing that a few times the day before too. He was very pleasant about it and I soon was on my way again.

But, I'm still curious to know why the alarm went off when I walked past the rails at the door that do the sensing.

I'd used the self checkout and payed with cash in the cash eating slot. I'd thought the change I got was too little tho'. When I looked quickly at the total on the screen before I bent down to put the cash in I thought I saw a total of 25 pounds something so I was expecting to get 4 pounds something back in the coin tray as change. I got less than half that and became alarmed that something had gone wrong. I checked the paper slip and it said 28 pounds something . . I frowned and gave in to the evidence in front of me even though I was sure something queer had just happened. The upshot was that I spent much more time than usual fussing about with the payment process ( all recorded on camera of course, and specific to me and that transaction, there's even a little screen at eye level in front of me when scanning that shows my head as I'm doing it ).

It's quite a coincidence that it was after that very experience that I had the alarm go off on me as I went out through the door !

I now have the impression that their electronic security system is hooked up to the checkout payments system and using A.I. to do a bit of experimental Voodoo that some geek at at Morrisons head office has dreamed up. The reaction of the security goof kinda gives it away. He's not privy to the inside details of what's changed but he knows there's some strange alerts happening recently. Maybe it's as simple as extra time spent paying and taking the bag off the scales that's triggered an excuse for a guard to engage me on the way out for a sniff to see if I'm dodgy.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Looks like "digital store fronts" may be a thing of the future.

Wawa redesigns University City location, removing all the store's shelves
The new format is an experiment by the retailer where customers place orders for all items using the Wawa app or in-store kiosk screens

As the world evolves, so does the Wawa customer experience. The convenience store chain is prototyping a screen-centric retail environment at one of its University City locations.

The Wawa at 3300 Market St. recently reopened after er a week-long redesign that eschews the traditional shelves of a convenience store. Rather than perusing and selecting products on display, now customers at the 3300 Market St. Wawa do their shopping virtually using either Wawa’s mobile app or in-store kiosks, and then orders are fulfilled by associates working at the store.
<snip>
At the same time, Wawa has struggled to keep its downtown Philadelphia stores open and operating at normal capacity. Last year, Wawa closed multiple Center City stores and scaled back hours at others, citing problems with shoplifting and violent incidents.
https://www.phillyvoice.com/wawa-new-store-format-digital-screens/

https://www.inquirer.com/resizer/C3WBB4p-G_Gy36WuvVVdx_heqdw=/filters:format(webp)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/pmn/EWK3WVB5OFG4LF4753ZI6JRPE4.jpg

Saw the above article in August, likely after so much of this sort of thing happening in Phila:
AvUyzETubdc

[shaberon]

There's one thing that these people who think it's a wheeze to go nicking from stores don't realise is that it could make them lose their job and become unemployable.


Nothing much new here, although it is also tied to credit rating, and, sometimes, a psychological exam.

That means I am unemployable.

I haven't hurt anybody or even stolen anything, and wind up being a type of disposable scrap because I don't quite match the parameters.

Then employers start finding it difficult to raise a work force.

Then we also get a prison-to-work industry. If you come off a sentence for years on something serious, you will get some form of help, unlike a minor offender and their cloudy record.

So we get a system that forces you to work for someone else, and then they won't let you.

If the going gets tough, then, many are going to resort to more thievery. So this is a defeatist dynamic.

Again, if the focus was to provide food and housing to all, most of this would be dramatically reduced. But that is the last thing we care about, in fact it seems we are actively opposed to it.


The last thing I would want is a world that evolves to be screen-centric.

This gets stupider and more complicated while the underlying issues continue to deteriorate.

[mizo]

BBC news reported yesterday:
Hundreds of women and children trafficked to UK to shoplift

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67687565

Hundreds of vulnerable women and children are being trafficked to the UK to shoplift for Eastern European crime groups, the BBC has learned.

One company in Scotland told BBC File on 4 it had identified a gang with 154 shoplifters stealing high-value items in bulk to sell or ship abroad.

Members have been arrested in London, Birmingham, Manchester and Darlington.

Retailers Against Crime (RAC) said it was tracking 56 shoplifting groups that are funding organised crime.

The criminals activities have been linked to drugs, firearms and human trafficking.

[Alecs]

Circumstances are being created that discourage a sense of moral obligation to society to legitimately earn one's prosperity. Remember, one gl0balist goal is to flatten the prosperity curve, worldwide.



BBC news reported yesterday:
Hundreds of women and children trafficked to UK to shoplift

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67687565

Hundreds of vulnerable women and children are being trafficked to the UK to shoplift for Eastern European crime groups, the BBC has learned.

One company in Scotland told BBC File on 4 it had identified a gang with 154 shoplifters stealing high-value items in bulk to sell or ship abroad.

Members have been arrested in London, Birmingham, Manchester and Darlington.

Retailers Against Crime (RAC) said it was tracking 56 shoplifting groups that are funding organised crime.

The criminals activities have been linked to drugs, firearms and human trafficking.

[Brigantia]

BBC news reported yesterday:
Hundreds of women and children trafficked to UK to shoplift

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67687565

Hundreds of vulnerable women and children are being trafficked to the UK to shoplift for Eastern European crime groups, the BBC has learned.

One company in Scotland told BBC File on 4 it had identified a gang with 154 shoplifters stealing high-value items in bulk to sell or ship abroad.

Members have been arrested in London, Birmingham, Manchester and Darlington.

Retailers Against Crime (RAC) said it was tracking 56 shoplifting groups that are funding organised crime.

The criminals activities have been linked to drugs, firearms and human trafficking.

Thinking further on this, I wonder if the gangs are covering all bases and getting a buddy in a job in store security? It's a job that few people want to do so if they get their own in, the shoplifters just need to walk out, knowing that they're not going to be stopped.

Typical woke BBC... these people are 'vulnerable', yeah right.

[shaberon]

Thinking further on this, I wonder if the gangs are covering all bases and getting a buddy in a job in store security? It's a job that few people want to do so if they get their own in, the shoplifters just need to walk out, knowing that they're not going to be stopped.


Last time I checked, that is a desirable job, at least for some.

Just the other day a co-worker told me his other job was security at the ER, and he sees someone die every night.

Personally, I got those reports possibly before he was born, and they were the same. It's a steady, low level gunfight.


The UK (https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/14021002000718/Repr-Brins-Increasingly-Trning-Fd-Black-Marke) is apparently seeing something I am not:



Increasing numbers of people are turning to a growing black market for food to supplement their diets as prices rocket, experts have said.

Meat, cheese and confectionery are among the items being stolen in large quantities from shops and lorries in order to be sold to people hit by the cost of living crisis, The Guardian reported.

With food prices rising, figures in policing, retail and academia said action was needed to stop people exploiting the rising demand for stolen food.

Retailers are reporting a record year for shoplifting, costing the industry £1bln this year, according to the British Retail Consortium’s estimate. Home Office data shows the crime has reached the highest level since records began, while the proportion of shoplifting incidents that resulted in a charge has fallen.

Andrew Goodacre, the chief executive of the British Independent Retailers Association said the cost of living crisis had made people “think of alternative ways of sourcing items that are essential to them”. He said shops that had not faced shoplifting in the past were reporting thieves clear whole shelves in seconds.

“I think that’s because the black market has got so much bigger,” he said.

Prof Emmeline Taylor, a criminologist and shoplifting expert at City, University of London, agreed. She said, facing a cost of living crisis, many consumers were more willing to “turn a blind eye” to stolen food.

She said, “I don’t think hardworking people who are now finding themselves in poverty are suddenly turning into criminals overnight. I think it’s more complicated than that."

“A lot of people are more willing to buy stolen goods than to actually shoplift themselves because they’re one step removed from it,” she added.

Taylor said people told themselves it was a victimless crime, that theft was built into the business models of big retailers, that supermarkets were the real criminals for raising prices or that shops were ripping off farmers or their own staff.

She said this was known as neutralisation, essentially “moral justifications that people conjure up to make themselves feel better when they’re doing something wrong”.

“Another technique of neutralisation would be, ‘Well how was I supposed to know it’s stolen?’ And that’s much more palatable for somebody than knowing full well themselves that they did steal something. So that’s where I think the cost of living crisis is creating the demand for stolen goods,” she added.

Wendy Chamberlain, a former police officer turned Lib Dem MP who chairs the all-party parliamentary group for the elimination of food banks, said it was “not surprising” that people were obtaining food through criminal means.

She said important nutritional foods had “essentially rocketed in price” and that food poverty could be particularly acute this time of year, with food banks providing only essentials that were generally “not particularly attractive or nutritional”.

She said, “When money is tight, when they’ve spent a long time saying ‘no’ to other family members, the opportunity to buy something a bit more premium and high end, with ‘ask no questions’, and ‘off the back of a lorry’, as it were, is appealing.”

She pointed out how, when universal credit claimants were given a £20 uplift in their payments during the pandemic, food bank usage dropped. During this time, crime statistics show shoplifting also fell.

She said one way of reducing the market for stolen goods was for the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) to urgently tackle the backlog that was causing people to miss out on crucial cost of living payments.

“It’s about processes within DWP not working so that people that really need the help can get it,” she said, adding that more research was needed to understand how big the black market had grown and how the criminal supply chains could be disrupted.

In October, police and the government launched an initiative called Pegasus, with £600,000-worth of funding provided by some of the UK’s biggest retailers. Among other things, it involves a new police intelligence team aiming to target organised crime gangs moving into retail theft.

It is being led by DCS Jim Taylor, who is the head of Opal, the national intelligence unit for organised acquisitive crime.

He said, “Professional knowledge tells us and history tells us that during a cost living crisis – high inflation and high unemployment – community crime rises. What we’re trying to do here is be ahead of the curve. We know that crimes like this are increasing and actually we know that it’s the organised element to it.”

A government spokesperson said police should be taking “a zero-tolerance approach” to shoplifting, adding, “We support millions of people every year to get the benefits they are entitled to, including providing advances to those who need immediate help, and to help people struggling with the cost of living are delivering an additional £3,700 on average per household.”


No, I don't see shelves cleared by gangs who must have a resell outlet in mind. We, of course, have gangs, which seem to be mostly about meth and fentanyl. I don't know how to actually buy a baby or teenager, except on the internet. I probably could buy most of the weapons that are being sent to Ukraine, I just can't afford it.

Concerning the food items, we normally sell them at twice the price, and throw half of it away.

Nothing said about that, or, the attempted murder that is practiced here in America at least, by all the adulterations. How much sympathy would one have for Nestle, who would like to privatize all the water in the world, or Purdue, one of the biggest polluters to ever grace the planet. As soon as we are talking about big businesses, it is difficult to find a moral platform.

Try it at a produce stand and you'll probably eat a shotgun blast.

They're pretty good with oatmeal.

As far as the gangs, they are usually gangs because they are unemployable at a regular job. Professional Mafia doesn't do that stuff.

[Brigantia]

A couple of points on your interesting reply Shaberon. Firstly, security is not considered a desirable job in the UK, many shirk at the possibility of being attacked seeing as criminals can be violent. Hardly anyone can own a gun in the UK but there are a lot of illegal guns in the hands of criminals, so anyone thieving could be armed. Also, the Guardian is a 'bleeding heart' newspaper that always adds a left-leaning slant onto every news story. The evidence seems to point to a lot of people shoplifting in the UK because they believe that they can get away with it, even if they can afford to pay.

I was in a convenience store a few days ago, waiting to pay and had to wait a bit as there was a lively discussion between the lady on the till and another staff member. A couple had come in and whilst the woman paid for a few bits of shopping, her partner picked up two bottles of Baileys liqueur from a stand near the till and walked out. That is hardly essential to his diet!

Finally, many of the gangs that we have are fairly recent arrivals to our shores, if you get my drift. It's astounding from the reports that I've read of what they will steal; if they can take it away, they'll nick it. There are even reports here of farm vehicles being stolen for export to eastern Europe.

[mizo]

True story...

I walked out of my local supermarket with a small bag of onions -cost £1 (without paying) the other day.
I got side tracked in the large store, I got talking to a relative for half an hour right by the exit on my way to the checkout tills.

My wife phoned she said she parked was outside, I walked out just not thinking about it. Got home and then realised I didn't pay for onions... :o

[Bill Ryan]

True story...

I walked out of my local supermarket with a small bag of onions -cost £1 (without paying) the other day.
I got side tracked in the large store, I got talking to a relative for half an hour right by the exit on my way to the checkout tills.

My wife phoned she said she parked was outside, I walked out just not thinking about it. Got home and then realised I didn't pay for onions... :oWhen I lived in Switzerland (2007—2011, and intermittently several years before that), the farmers always had little open wooden shacks on the road by their farm with fresh fruit, veg, home-made bread and cheese all laid out.

There was no-one there, ever, just a little cashbox to place some money in. It was all done 100% on trust. It was a Swiss tradition, like that for generations, all working perfectly.

Once or twice, I just didn't have the cash with me when I passed by. I took the produce that I needed — then the next morning, when I had some change, I'd come right back to put the money in the cashbox. Sometimes I'd drive 10 miles or more to do that. The amounts were always small, but it felt important.

VERY sadly, I don't think the Swiss still do that so much now. I suspect it's still there, but maybe rather less so. The problem, which was just starting when I was there, was increasing numbers of migrants who would just help themselves to whatever was there — and never pay a thing.

:flower:

[SilentFeathers]

True story...

I walked out of my local supermarket with a small bag of onions -cost £1 (without paying) the other day.
I got side tracked in the large store, I got talking to a relative for half an hour right by the exit on my way to the checkout tills.

My wife phoned she said she parked was outside, I walked out just not thinking about it. Got home and then realised I didn't pay for onions... :oWhen I lived in Switzerland (2007—2011, and intermittently several years before that), the farmers always had little open wooden shacks on the road by their farm with fresh fruit, veg, home-made bread and cheese all laid out.

There was no-one there, ever, just a little cashbox to place some money in. It was all done 100% on trust. It was a Swiss tradition, like that for generations, all working perfectly.

Once or twice, I just didn't have the cash with me when I passed by. I took the produce that I needed — then the next morning, when I had some change, I'd come right back to put the money in the cashbox. Sometimes I'd drive 10 miles or more to do that. The amounts were always small, but it felt important.

VERY sadly, I don't think the Swiss still do that so much now. I suspect it's still there, but maybe rather less so. The problem, which was just starting when I was there, was increasing numbers of migrants who would just help themselves to whatever was there — and never pay a thing.

:flower:

We are indeed witnessing the collapse of civilization....and living in the midst of a possible extinction level event.
Without logic, reason, common sense, morals, truth, and trust; there really isn't much left.

[Ernie Nemeth]

We have been living a lie, a fantasy we held in our minds.

This world never had logic, reason, common sense, and the rest - we only wished to believe it did.

We've been living in a dream world, and it has turned into a nightmare only because we cannot hide from the truth any longer...

[Brigantia]

We have been living a lie, a fantasy we held in our minds.

This world never had logic, reason, common sense, and the rest - we only wished to believe it did.

We've been living in a dream world, and it has turned into a nightmare only because we cannot hide from the truth any longer...

I'm not sure that I agree with that... I clearly remember a world where the majority of British people were honest. People whose worst nightmare would be getting into trouble with the police, and that included my elderly relatives who grew up in grinding poverty, yet they would never think of stealing. A world where you didn't have to produce several pieces of ID to prove who you were.

It seemed to change in Britain in the 1980s, I remember news reports about the rise of insurance fraud whereby people made fake claims to get insurance payouts. From then on there seems to have been a rapid decline in honesty. Hey, if others are doing it, let's have a go at that too...

I also remember a time when children were taught the teachings of the bible in schools, and my mother occasionally took me to church on Sundays and the church was packed. Now children are taught about multiple faiths and churches are closing as they have no congregation. This point is not about whether Christianity is right or wrong, but the fact that this country has lost its moral compass and there has been nothing to replace it.

Yes, there are good, honest people, but their numbers are dwindling as so many have become self-centred with little care or compassion for others. So what if people are nicking a few groceries? Well, you'll find it harder to do your shopping when branches start to close in your area, and people you know in retail will be losing their jobs due to crippling losses.

Edit to add - I forgot to mention Thatcherism too from 1979, with the destruction of the manufacturing industries that turned the working class into an underclass with no jobs and no hope.

[Bill Ryan]

Civilized society is a delicate ecosystem. For all the multiple components to thrive and prosper, there have to be checks and balances that are wisely and intelligently thought out, implemented, and maintained.

In the natural world, if a virulent disease reduces the number of foxes, the rabbits will run rampant everywhere.

In the human world, if politicians reduce both the number of police and the resources available to the justice system, then criminals will run rampant as well.

It's just so very simple. Once these checks and balances are removed (whether through unintelligence or malice), then the balance goes haywire and the nightmare world that Ernie mentions above starts to grow all on its own.

:flower:

[shaberon]

Firstly, security is not considered a desirable job in the UK, many shirk at the possibility of being attacked seeing as criminals can be violent. Hardly anyone can own a gun in the UK but there are a lot of illegal guns in the hands of criminals, so anyone thieving could be armed.



That's interesting. It seems to me the two countries are extremely different on a day-to-day basis.

I practically never hear of "criminal violence" in terms of a struggle from interrupting an act. *Most* of the violent acts here would have to be summarized as "domestic", with perhaps a little bit of "gang rivalry" tossed in.

Security in my view is the lazy person's job, you walk around, drive slowly, or stand or sit and maybe talk to a few normal passers-by. The more snide view is to look at them as being too weak to get on the police force. Either way, you never really do anything.

I remember a stun gun compared to security. A lady was in a shopping mall right after it closed, someone went by, and out of a sense of intimidation, she stun gunned the guy. These devices make a loud, distinct crackling sound that you cannot miss. Nevertheless, she sat there until she drained the battery of the thing. That much use of it seems to have been fatal at some point, but, whatever, it was not a Floyd moment, just an incident that passed under the nose of security.


I suppose it varies by situation, such as at a large sporting event you are going to direct traffic, help someone out of the mud, and so on, or if you are going to ride in an armored car, theoretically you are protecting something.

My only British experience was a few days spent in London. I would say the authorities were well-trained. One of them singled me out of a crowd going into the tube and detained me. And then I guess they flagged my passport as when I was coming back to America, the airport authority shut me in a little room for a while. That seemed a little touchy of them. But I didn't notice that in any of the stores or other places and I don't remember anyone who even looked like "security".


As far as the press, it is awful. I thought about only posting the sentence about shelves being emptied. Despite being told the store was being shoplifted where I newly work, I have heard nothing more from it in about...four months now. Nothing.

One of my neighbors has this irrigation thing, it's about a quarter mile long and drives around in a circle. Like making a sprinkler out of a radio tower. I'd like to see someone steal that.

Actually, I'd rather see most of this land value used to bolster the local economy.

You know what that guy does? Grows lawn turfs.

Someone will pay good money for a chunk of soil bound together by grass roots.

You can't eat it.

[shaberon]

In the natural world, if a virulent disease reduces the number of foxes, the rabbits will run rampant everywhere.


This is the guns-for-hunting argument exactly.

Here, and in the majority of states, there is a proliferation of deer. These are extremely dangerous for automobiles. Or, on an agricultural basis, they bring devastation.


This is the guns-for-arms argument:


In the human world, if politicians reduce both the number of police and the resources available to the justice system, then criminals will run rampant as well.


I doubt that was what you were trying to say here, but that is mostly what gun-friendly states are about.

I just don't like the smell of gunpowder.

I would say at a minimum, humanity has to be given the type of compass that say, left Britain due to Thatcher.

It means a belief in something good, and yet we are not supposed to ever enforce any particular religion, and find ourselves most of the time denying that goodness is propagating.

[Bill Ryan]

New on Zero Hedge. This is all a big part of the problem. :facepalm:


https://zerohedge.com/political/leftist-politician-germany-says-migrants-are-entitled-mass-loot-grocery-stores

Leftist Politician in Germany says Migrants are "Entitled" to Mass-Loot Grocery Stores

A shop owner in Germany was denounced as a racist for complaining about migrants mass looting his store, while a left-wing politician sided with the criminals, saying they were “entitled” to steal.

(...the article continues (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/leftist-politician-germany-says-migrants-are-entitled-mass-loot-grocery-stores))

[SilentFeathers]

New on Zero Hedge. This is all a big part of the problem. :facepalm:


https://zerohedge.com/political/leftist-politician-germany-says-migrants-are-entitled-mass-loot-grocery-stores

Leftist Politician in Germany says Migrants are "Entitled" to Mass-Loot Grocery Stores

A shop owner in Germany was denounced as a racist for complaining about migrants mass looting his store, while a left-wing politician sided with the criminals, saying they were “entitled” to steal.

(...the article continues (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/leftist-politician-germany-says-migrants-are-entitled-mass-loot-grocery-stores))

This is incredibly stupid to announce that a certain group of people are "entitled" to steal from certain people/businesses and the victims/business owners must allow these thieves to steal from them or be punished. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this will only escalate to violence.
It's obvious that violence is the desired outcome by these globalist psychopaths....

[Brigantia]

New on Zero Hedge. This is all a big part of the problem. :facepalm:


https://zerohedge.com/political/leftist-politician-germany-says-migrants-are-entitled-mass-loot-grocery-stores

Leftist Politician in Germany says Migrants are "Entitled" to Mass-Loot Grocery Stores

A shop owner in Germany was denounced as a racist for complaining about migrants mass looting his store, while a left-wing politician sided with the criminals, saying they were “entitled” to steal.

(...the article continues (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/leftist-politician-germany-says-migrants-are-entitled-mass-loot-grocery-stores))

This is incredibly stupid to announce that a certain group of people are "entitled" to steal from certain people/businesses and the victims/business owners must allow these thieves to steal from them or be punished. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this will only escalate to violence.
It's obvious that violence is the desired outcome by these globalist psychopaths....

I agree - and isn't it racist to say that only certain ethnic groups will be arrested and charged for committing these crimes? The Left doesn't open its mouth with any logical thought anymore, though the Centre and Right is no better.

[Ewan]

You know, call me stupid and feel free to do so, but I never understood the left/right dichotomy - or centrist or whatever.

Even at school I saw my peers, 13, 14, espousing the views of their parents presumably, hating on the 'other side' and decrying anything they claimed or did. So there was me, 13 years old wondering what the hell everyone was on about - to me it was so simple. Did it make sense?

To this day I still, genuinely, get confused about these labels left and right. I simply cannot process it.

Common sense is, well, common sense. Whatever happened to common sense? Reason, thought, dialogue? It's all gone in favour of positions that need defending regardless of aught, no need to think, just choose your position and defend it at any cost.

[SilentFeathers]

You know, call me stupid and feel free to do so, but I never understood the left/right dichotomy - or centrist or whatever.

Even at school I saw my peers, 13, 14, espousing the views of their parents presumably, hating on the 'other side' and decrying anything they claimed or did. So there was me, 13 years old wondering what the hell everyone was on about - to me it was so simple. Did it make sense?

To this day I still, genuinely, get confused about these labels left and right. I simply cannot process it.

Common sense is, well, common sense. Whatever happened to common sense? Reason, thought, dialogue? It's all gone in favour of positions that need defending regardless of aught, no need to think, just choose your position and defend it at any cost.

Just like any other muscle, the brain becomes quite weak when it lacks exercise. Use it or lose it so they say.
Seems many with weak brains find it simpler to just pick a side and maneuver stumbling through life on the path of least resistance.

Personally, I think this left-right thing is about to reach its breaking point and those lacking the skills of critical thinking and coping with major stress will simply just lose it. It won't be pretty when large numbers of "zombies" lose what's left of their minds and snap, turning desperate and extremely dangerous.

The way things have been going, especially these last few years or so, it's almost a given that things will fall apart in an awful way soon.....

[shaberon]

So there was me, 13 years old wondering what the hell everyone was on about - to me it was so simple. Did it make sense?


It doesn't unless you are taught something about it.

Man's own invention!

I felt pretty much the same way when young and was forced to find out that Left and Right are literal terms from the French Revolution to keep groups physically separated.

Like a computer processor, all we have is further generations and faster details of it.

We are kind of a-political because we are rejecting conflict.

Either argument is merely a means of projecting Capitalism over the poor.

Is it wealthy people who are involved with who should be entitled to shoplift, or will it lead to violence?

I don't think so.

I also am not in an argument which is more or less between Zionists and Catholics.

If we are trained to believe those are the only choices, we are caught.

And yes, probably a lot of it spawns straight through parental influence. And, it is weird to be at a level where food production is ineffective for everybody. In the example of a system with no money, such as Babylon, you would instead be paid with food. So the input that has gone into this Left--Right thing is inadequate. If you are left to naturally source wisdom you will find it elsewhere.

[Bill Ryan]

To this day I still, genuinely, get confused about these labels left and right. I simply cannot process it. The labels are thrown around by a LOT of people, including politicians, the media, and analysts who should know better. The terms are almost meaningless now, and are way too one-dimensional. See this thread:


The "Right-Left" dichotomy: false, simplistic, & manipulative. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111305-The-Right-Left-dichotomy-false-simplistic-manipulative.)


:focus:

[thepainterdoug]

I know Im late to the dance here on this thread. But everyone here at P Avalon from the so called farthest bleeding liberal left to the staunchest hard nose right knows that most all this could be easily solved .
The amount of money that governments spend on keeping us in hate and war could solve this poverty 100 times over. Its exactly how they want it by design

Capitalism is not the problem, meritocracy is not the problem, ownership and borders is not the problem, and when people start pointing fingers at our system I get wary.

Its governments, corrupt governments that prefer a world of hate division and chaos. Its what keeps them in power.

should a migrant run into a store and steal stuff and then hunker down under his tent or box or whatever, and should someone ransack his stuff, does that migrant say, hey its all good, its all free, its all love? NO NOT AT ALL. They are as angered and raped as the shop keeper who they robbed.

The rule of law must be upheld. The Police are needed. But we the people need to police our governments and this does not seem an easy thing to do .
My two cents.

[Inversion]

The CVS store in Columbia Heights is forced to close due to out of control theft. The items are then sold on the streets.

dailymail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/consumer/article-13001379/Washington-CVS-closed-rampant-theft.html)

Store was reportedly targeted by more than 45 schoolkids each day
Videos of empty shelves at the Columbia Heights store went viral in October
Retailers have been increasingly locking products up to reduce theft

01/24/24 (2:02)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dz9687_qyU

[shaberon]

A couple of points on your interesting reply Shaberon. Firstly, security is not considered a desirable job in the UK, many shirk at the possibility of being attacked seeing as criminals can be violent.


I have to get back to this where I was trying to explain that *most* security in America is a *highly* desirable position among a certain class of people.

After explaining how these were "cop failures", I said something about working with one. And, yeah, I could tell he goes about half a mile an hour. He can talk, a lot, I'm sure of that. So at one point I subliminally instructed him to get those donuts which he did, and then I had to stop him and make him put them back. The reason he can't fully comprehend the things I say is because we are living in different worlds. This was freely told to me:


The point of working is to do as little as possible.


I don't know where that comes from. But, this is the likely sort of person one would get to take care of one's premises on a trusting basis.

[Kryztian]

This one is about two years old, but the trend continues. From California (2 minutes)

ftYHfK6KYtE

[norman]

Amazon and the other online shopping giants must be chuffed with this trend.