What is love?

[Bruce G Charlton]

What is "love"? How would you describe what you mean by love; for example speaking or writing to somebody who was confused or unsure what you meant?

The matter is of prime importance to Christians such as myself - since love is usually regarded as the single most important "thing" that there is. Yet, there is often considerably uncertainty and inconsistency about how "love" is used - and not many people can talk about the subject helpfully.

For example - is love an emotion, or is it something else?

Is love subjective, or objective?

Does love require individuals, or can it be abstract?

Should love be on at least two sides, or is one-sided love possible?

And do you, personally, regard love as The Most Important Thing in Reality?

I have my own ideas on this matter; but I am here interested in hearing what other people think; from a variety of spiritual, religious, and neither spiritual nor religious, perspectives.

[mojo]

As the video mentions, it is the most intense thought of human beings. I thought I could explain it by comparisons but it is so much more. I know there are different kinds of love according to the Greek literature & language. Interesting that some cultures like English speaking only have one way of saying or defining the word of love.

5sY4rhvB9LE

[Casey Claar]

What is "love"? How would you describe what you mean by love; for example speaking or writing to somebody who was confused or unsure what you meant?

The matter is of prime importance to Christians such as myself - since love is usually regarded as the single most important "thing" that there is. Yet, there is often considerably uncertainty and inconsistency about how "love" is used - and not many people can talk about the subject helpfully.

For example - is love an emotion, or is it something else?

Is love subjective, or objective?

Does love require individuals, or can it be abstract?

Should love be on at least two sides, or is one-sided love possible?

And do you, personally, regard love as The Most Important Thing in Reality?

I have my own ideas on this matter; but I am here interested in hearing what other people think; from a variety of spiritual, religious, and neither spiritual nor religious, perspectives.

Love is the Creative Principle.
"Love is what is left when you let go of everything you no longer need."

It is interesting, because I could hear this question being asked from my dream state this morning. I am still surprised to see it actually asked here, though.


Casey

[Rawhide68]

I feel that "love" is what we are made of, and awarness of that is the key to it all.

[lake]

What is love?

I gave my view (which has sadly not changed) near 10 years ago regarding the concept of love and what it is .... Love, Empathy, Morals and Technology (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70969-Love-Empathy-Morals-and-Technology)

[ExomatrixTV]

There may be 100s of descriptions of what Love could be or what it entails ... The moment it is conditional, it is not Love with a capital L anymore, but a small "l" of self-love posing as "Love" for the other.


Some assume there is "only" conditional (selfish) love for the other because they themselves are not able to Love unconditionally.

If you do not think, nor calculate, and you just do things to help somebody else because you care without having any demands nor expectations you mostly get energized that is bigger than yourself ....

If you expect something in return, it mostly involves "feeling drained" and you feel your sacrifice was calculated to get something for it.

There are times you need to take good care of yourself first, to be able to help others much better more effectively ... but if you only want to serve others but not yourself >>> that will ultimately backfire! ... and when you do that, taking care of yourself first, you need to know/find out who you are beyond any external conditioning, because if you don't, you most likely end up losing yourself in endless distractions.

There is a need to have a balance between "self-love" and be able to practice "Love" for the other! ... Not all spiritual minded people get that, they just assume "it must be egotistical" to take care of yourself first.

People with (severe) traumatic experiences in the past tend to (may) run away from having these feelings and need to help others non-stop as a distraction not to feel the pain ... What tips can we give to those tormented Souls?

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Isserley]

Love is fundamental aspect of human relationships and plays a significant role in shaping our connections with others.
For me, it is about those moments, which fill warmth in the heart, moments of pure selflesness, moments of magic.

[Raskolnikov]

You know, of course, that your title is ripe for this one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwVh8pmOot4

That said, love is everything, the creative principle, the glue that holds us all together, it's the abundance that Tesla tapped into for free abundant energy which God has always provided and we have simply forgotten (or been convinced otherwise). Love is coherence and God science, yes, true science is rooted in God and so is love.

[ExomatrixTV]

I remember this saying once to my ex-girlfriend long time ago:


"Do you love me for who I really am? ... or do you love the story in your head about me, who I 'suppose' to be?"

Most may wonder about the same question without realizing it.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

years later I found someone who gets it too:
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-uTOeicvhz8
1751404181762576849

[thepainterdoug]

Liam is correct. But doesn't make for a good song

[Raskolnikov]

Bruce, I hope you don't mind, but I find this post inextricably linked to Valknut3301's post about Nick Cave and the dangers of AI:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122603-Nick-Cave-and-the-danger-of-Chat-GPT&p=1597875&viewfull=1#post1597875

I haven't done the deep dive but supposedly Nick Cave wrote a letter to a young striving fan and ChatGPT (or someone) rewrote/posted it taking out all his references to God, love and the innate human impulse to create while imbuing it with, well, read it for yourself. The original response from Nick Cave makes this worthy of your time, it really is remarkable and on point.

"When the God of the Bible looked upon what He had created, He did so with a sense of accomplishment and saw that ‘it was good‘. ‘It was good ‘because it required something of His own self, and His struggle imbued creation with a moral imperative, in short love."

Here's a link to Cave's original response:

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/chatgpt-making-things-faster-and-easier/

[Vangelo]

What is love?

I gave my view (which has sadly not changed) near 10 years ago regarding the concept of love and what it is .... Love, Empathy, Morals and Technology (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70969-Love-Empathy-Morals-and-Technology)

Thank you lake, very interesting and comprehensive description of the many facets of love. Well worth the read.

There is one other dimension of love that I don't think you covered. It is something I did not experience until my early 50s. It is very similar to what Isserley describes here:

Love is fundamental aspect of human relationships and plays a significant role in shaping our connections with others.
For me, it is about those moments, which fill warmth in the heart, moments of pure selflesness, moments of magic.
For me it is a connectedness with everything and everyone. It is a state of being where I am both an individual and also everything at once (i.e. one with the universe). It all began about 15 years ago when I learned a meditation technique that focuses on opening the heart chakra. The first time I successfully opened, I felt unconditional love fill my heart chakra as it permeated my being. I felt connected to all there is. I also "knew" love is a fundamental component of the universe and it is infinite (it is not a limited resource).

The thing I felt (that I called love in the previous paragraph) was a warm energy that connected me to everything and everyone. It fills me with feelings of peace, grace, belonging, compassion, and empathy.

[mojo]

I haven't shared this aspect of paranormal encounters from testimony or in video evidence on my Youtube channel from late fall 2009 until 2017 and even today letting the viewer decide validity or not. But looking back after the first initial encounters I did have a feeling or sense of love and expressed it during the encounter. Maybe other intelligent lifeforms were aware of this, just like some animals can pick up on it?

[Heart to heart]

19 years ago, when staying with my daughter in Warminster, I was woken at six in the morning by a gentle touch from the hand of my six year old grandson, who is on the autistic spectrum, and his words to me were “DO YOU KNOW GRANDMA, LOVE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD?”
Those astonishing words from that beautiful child remain forever in my heart.
And my answer to his words were, “ I DO, MY DARLING, I DO!”

It has been said that A LITTLE CHILD SHALL LEAD THEM. What could be more precious than that?

[Bruce G Charlton]

Thanks to all for your replies and perspectives!

My own understanding is something like Casey and Raskolnikov, in that I understand love to be the fundamental creative principle of reality.

[John Hilton]

Let's start with the Greek definitions:

Έροτας (Erotas) = romantic, sexual love (for a person).

Αγάπη (Agapee) = kind, caring love

Αγάπη (Agapee) = strong liking (for music, sport, animals, etc.)

Αδελφική αγάπη (athelfeekee agapee) - brotherly love.



For example - is love an emotion, or is it something else?

Is love subjective, or objective?

Does love require individuals, or can it be abstract?

Should love be on at least two sides, or is one-sided love possible?

And do you, personally, regard love as The Most Important Thing in Reality?

All types of love are emotional and all require an object (although that might be onesself!)

The object is not necessarily living (in the case of agapee) but must be living in the case of erotas - otherwise I'd call it necrophilia or just plain weird.

All types of love can be one sided.

Love and learning are the two principal reasons for our choosing to spend time in a physical body on earth.

[pyrangello]

Did you ever look at someone and feel that electricity of connection that starts from your heart and runs thru your chakra then departing your body thru your 3rd eye. There are truly know words to describe what just happened except that you know that energy burst is so free and pure and unconditional, it truly is the best of who we are in the most special way.........................................

[Raskolnikov]

Did you ever look at someone and feel that electricity of connection that starts from your heart and runs thru your chakra then departing your body thru your 3rd eye. There are truly know words to describe what just happened except that you know that energy burst is so free and pure and unconditional, it truly is the best of who we are in the most special way.........................................


Experienced that many times in my youth, but back then my third eye was much closer to my root chakra! I kid. But yes, when you can pull your focus from the root to the heart the possibilties are endless and the power unlimited. I remember writing a short story about three beautiful girls who entered a gas station and exuded so much energy they could've powered all of SF on body language alone as they teased and flirted with me. You see where my focus was back then. But excellent point pyrangello, root to heart = free and unlimited energy. The look, the spark, the power and potential... is that the big bang they've been talking about?

[pyrangello]

My experience is the more you experience that electrical spark flash bang thru your soul , the more it happens in frequency, perhaps it's your longevity on the earth during your current lifetime now, your deep appreciation of sharing that energy with a soul that you recognize is in fact a special soul as well. I would say if you are truly a compassionate soul who values any life form on this planet you have made the first step toward the unconditional love, the rest follows and then the connections happen like butter on bread.

The obstacle with so many of us is the constant reversal from that centered peace, love and harmony to just being in the matrix of having a standard of living, having the economics to obtain a so called standard and then the day to day aspect of dealing with negative entities that can pull you in the opposite direction of love and harmony. It's truly a challenge on so many levels to not allow the negatives to pull you from the center.we are all guilty of allowing that to happen. That's one of the reasons why I shut my cable tv off.

Somebody asked me one time why I havnt changed my ways of being a compassionate person giving assistance to so many and sometimes getting screwed over because I have stayed true to who I am and what I value. I told that person if I change my ways because of a person that did me wrong then I have become what they are and I refuse to allow that to happen.

Love is the ultimate gift of the universe, stay close to that vibration level as the rewards are endless.

[DeDukshyn]

Tricky one ... I didn't read through the thread .. .so this is from that perspective ...

Love is where where complete unconditionality of giving loving energy and support comes from. Love comes from the rocks, the plants, the animals, your pets ... rarely does it ever come from humans. Its not infatuation, its not conditional, and it's not what leads to sex.

Love is a pure unconditional state, that permeates and rises above all sin. It knows no condition. It knows know distinction between life and creation. It knows no difference between anything and anything else, because it is unconditional. If any condition is ever applied, love becomes 1000% absent.

It sees all creation, all action and all thought as the creator's will to experience. It respects the creators will to experience ... anything. It may be hard for many people to accept the definition ... as it is hard for many people to accept love, as the creator.

Love extended to what we call evil, is love. Love denied to those we reject or hate is never love, but judgement. It might hurt some to hear this, but the truth often hurts. Any condition applied to love is a bastardization of the term. Again, it may be rejected ... but it is love that is being rejected.

Love lights the darkeness, it accepts the darkness, it would not be love otherwise. it is whole ... it is holistic, it is all and it accepts all.

It is the only thing that can permeate the darkness ... no judgement can do that, no force can do that ... only love can do that.

[earthdreamer]

As a young child I absorbed some Christian teachings and I actually wrote a little diary entry (age 7, hilarious handwriting!) about a boy I didn’t like. ‘I don’t like Eliot. But I love him in God’s way.’ Love was the concept I internalized, trying to reconcile my bothered conscience.

A concept that I heard in 7th grade when I was 12 years old also appealed to my conscience. ‘What you dislike in another person is what you dislike in yourself’. I still find it useful to temper judgmental feelings that arise.

I struggled with my religious convictions as I recognized hypocrisy in fellow church members and a growing cynical attitude within my view of the social world. But I loved the friendships I shared and I loved my family and animals and nature, and many teachers, so the world was not intolerable 😉

I searched for romantic love as a young adult but I wouldn’t really connect that search with love so much as personal exploration. Through art and reading, music and relatable peers, my search for ‘truth’ and the nature of ‘reality’ was my soulful journey. Ultimately I decided I was ready for ‘Real Love’ and I was blessed to find my partner for that ( ongoing ) experience.

Nowadays I am still inspired to feel Love’s upliftment by my parents example. 62 years together and my dad’s well of love and patience is relentlessly tested by my mother’s disease, Alzheimer’s. Truly, without love, life would be hell.

So it seems to me that Love holds lessons, or creative potential, forgiveness and understanding, until my last breath (and maybe then some).

Happy Valentines Day 2024, y’all 💗🙏💗🙂🌷💗

[Bill Ryan]

Happy Valentines Day 2024, y’all 💗🙏💗🙂🌷💗Bumping this!! :)

:heart::heart2: :grouphug: :heart2::heart:

[mountain_jim]

As a young child I absorbed some Christian teachings and I actually wrote a little diary entry (age 7, hilarious handwriting!) about a boy I didn’t like. ‘I don’t like Eliot. But I love him in God’s way.’ Love was the concept I internalized, trying to reconcile my bothered conscience.

A concept that I heard in 7th grade when I was 12 years old also appealed to my conscience. ‘What you dislike in another person is what you dislike in yourself’. I still find it useful to temper judgmental feelings that arise.

I struggled with my religious convictions as I recognized hypocrisy in fellow church members and a growing cynical attitude within my view of the social world. But I loved the friendships I shared and I loved my family and animals and nature, and many teachers, so the world was not intolerable 😉

I searched for romantic love as a young adult but I wouldn’t really connect that search with love so much as personal exploration. Through art and reading, music and relatable peers, my search for ‘truth’ and the nature of ‘reality’ was my soulful journey. Ultimately I decided I was ready for ‘Real Love’ and I was blessed to find my partner for that ( ongoing ) experience.

Nowadays I am still inspired to feel Love’s upliftment by my parents example. 62 years together and my dad’s well of love and patience is relentlessly tested by my mother’s disease, Alzheimer’s. Truly, without love, life would be hell.

So it seems to me that Love holds lessons, or creative potential, forgiveness and understanding, until my last breath (and maybe then some).

Happy Valentines Day 2024, y’all 💗🙏💗🙂🌷💗

:rose: :inlove: :rose:


:flower:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

What is "love"?

I don't think it can be explained in words. Perhaps only in deeds.

Like these. :heart:

1892987330601820366
https://x.com/TheFigen_/status/1892987330601820366

[rgray222]

I used to think love was the most important virtue/emotion in the world but over the years I have changed my opinion. I think that relationships are the most important thing in 'this world'. Relationships give life purpose and meaning. Good relationships foster love for friends, family, romance and community. Good relationships keep people civil with each other, they keep people tuned into life and society. Good relationships bring about a solid understanding between different races and cultures. But on a much broader scale, good relationships can prevent war and bring people together. Maybe in the afterlife when we are not restricted by our physical bodies, and our minds and emotions connect us all, love might be all we need in the collective (heaven).

[Rawhide68]

This subject deserves attention, more now than ever I feel.

The reason I post this now is this wonderful, thoughtful, and scary quote from MLK

“I am convinced that love is the most durable power in the world. It is not an expression of impractical idealism, but of practical realism. Far from being the pious injunction of a Utopian dreamer, love is an absolute necessity for the survival of our civilization. To return hate for hate does nothing but intensify the existence of evil in the universe. Someone must have sense enough and morality enough to cut off the chain of hate and evil, and this can only be done through love.”

Martin Luther King Jr

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

A great quote, and I agree with it heartily. Jimi Hendrix did too, see my signature:

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
~ Jimi Hendrix

[Harmony]

I really enjoy the feeling when I read the following Ram Dass quote::heart:


“The greatest thing you can do for another being is to provide the unconditional love that comes from making contact with that place in them that is beyond conditions, which is just pure consciousness, pure essence. That is, once we acknowledge each other as existing, just being here, just being, then each of us is free to change optimally. If I can just love you because here we are, then you are free to grow as you need to grow.”

— Ram Dass

[rgray222]

I am not sure why I felt so strongly that this video needed to be on this thread. I suspect someone or many someones need to hear and see it.

hjM4SWoJ59E

[Vangelo]

I really enjoy the feeling when I read the following Ram Dass quote::heart:


“The greatest thing you can do for another being is to provide the unconditional love that comes from making contact with that place in them that is beyond conditions, which is just pure consciousness, pure essence. That is, once we acknowledge each other as existing, just being here, just being, then each of us is free to change optimally. If I can just love you because here we are, then you are free to grow as you need to grow.”

— Ram Dass
Thank you Harmony for sharing this Ram Dass quote. It does a great job of describing a phenomenon I am familiar with called "Witnessing". I will borrow this quote because I often have a difficult time trying to describe what witnessing is to others.

I have been lucky enough to have seen the extraordinary healing power of this phenomenon. The really amazing thing about witnessing is that both the witnesser (the person witnessing another) and the witnessee (the person being witnessed) benefit from the experience.

[Bill Ryan]

I really enjoy the feeling when I read the following Ram Dass quote::heart:

“The greatest thing you can do for another being is to provide the unconditional love that comes from making contact with that place in them that is beyond conditions, which is just pure consciousness, pure essence. That is, once we acknowledge each other as existing, just being here, just being, then each of us is free to change optimally. If I can just love you because here we are, then you are free to grow as you need to grow.”

— Ram Dass
Thank you Harmony for sharing this Ram Dass quote. It does a great job of describing a phenomenon I am familiar with called "Witnessing". I will borrow this quote because I often have a difficult time trying to describe what witnessing is to others.

I have been lucky enough to have seen the extraordinary healing power of this phenomenon. The really amazing thing about witnessing is that both the witnesser (the person witnessing another) and the witnessee (the person being witnessed) benefit from the experience.~~~

Years ago I read an account of Healing at Lourdes which I've never forgotten. (I seem to remember clearly that it was in Michael Talbot's inspired and important book The Holographic Universe — in the library here (https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Michael%20Talbot%20-%20The%20Holographic%20Universe.pdf) — but I've never been able to find that particular section.)

The story was reported by researchers into remarkable Lourdes Healings. They found that there had been many such inexplicable, 'miraculous' Healings — but in almost all cases, these had occurred when the Lourdes visitor had been asking for Healing for someone else.

:heart:

[RunningDeer]

Years ago I read an account of Healing at Lourdes which I've never forgotten. (I seem to remember clearly that it was in Michael Talbot's inspired and important book The Holographic Universe — in the library here (https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Michael%20Talbot%20-%20The%20Holographic%20Universe.pdf) — but I've never been able to find that particular section.)

The story was reported by researchers into remarkable Lourdes Healings. They found that there had been many such inexplicable, 'miraculous' Healings — but in almost all cases, these had occurred when the Lourdes visitor had been asking for Healing for someone else.

:heart:




FYI: This copy of The Holographic Universe (https://ia802906.us.archive.org/1/items/theholographicuniversebymichaeltalbot1991/The_Holographic_Universe_by_Michael_Talbot_1991.pdf) is easier to read because it's not a photocopy of the book.

:focus:

[Michel Leclerc]

In one of Saikaku Ihara’s stories about love between samurais, the fight between two sword-fighters is given up by one of them saying to the other: “Kill me, because you are more beautiful”.

The feeling of love is the realisation that the beloved‘s death is more unbearable than one’s own.

The readiness to sacrifice one’s own life for the other ensues. The ultimate spiritual experience of being is to die for the one whose physical experience one wishes to never end.

Bodhisattva, fresh incarnation.

All forms of love arise, derive, from this. Motherly and fatherly love for their children is of this nature. Giving up one’s life so that another concentration camp inmate may live. Jesus’ final resolve in the olive garden.

The man who jumps into the water and drowns to save his dog.

[Vangelo]

I used to think love was the most important virtue/emotion in the world but over the years I have changed my opinion. I think that relationships are the most important thing in 'this world'. Relationships give life purpose and meaning. Good relationships foster love for friends, family, romance and community. Good relationships keep people civil with each other, they keep people tuned into life and society. Good relationships bring about a solid understanding between different races and cultures. But on a much broader scale, good relationships can prevent war and bring people together. Maybe in the afterlife when we are not restricted by our physical bodies, and our minds and emotions connect us all, love might be all we need in the collective (heaven).

The Witnessing phenomenon I described here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1659549#post1659549)is very much about relationship. The act is quite simple but the connection is quite intense and pure. It is called witnessing because it requires the witnesser to see the other person without filter or bias. For me, this is about being in a state of unconditional or unadulterated love with that person (i.e. in relationship with them).

The witnessee is just being themselves in whatever state they may be in (i.e., anger, chaos, joy, wonderment, etc.... Bill's comment here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122602-What-is-love&p=1659585&viewfull=1#post1659585)about someone receiving the miracle of healing reminded me of 2 things. The first is that, the witnessee does indeed heal but it is a small, incremental healing as opposed to a miraculous healing like those that occurred at Lourdes. The second is that it is also about growth and expansion. The best example of witnessing of this type is when a very young child is in a state of fantasy and comes to an adult (or even another child) and shares their fantasy with that other person. Witnessing occurs as the adult suspends judgement and is with that child without interruption and judgement of what that child says or does (this is such a beautiful thing to watch). Witnessing is not occurring if/when that adult interferes with that child's fantasy. In those cases, the adult is usually trying to correct the child to see the reality as defined by the adult. Unconditional love is not present and the relationship that was sparked between the adult and the child is broken.