Christianity vs Spirituality

[Mike]

I think religion has become sort of a dirty word in alt community circles, and I've been sort of inwardly exploring that mentality lately.

I feel myself getting more religious as I get older, for better or worse. I feel I'm being gently pulled back to my Catholic roots in recent years, but it remains mostly a feeling. Only recently have I begun intellectualizing it in any kind of earnest way.

I want to put some of my ideas to the test here. They're very vague at the moment, and not fleshed out in any meaningful way. Writing has always helped me with that, along with reading the ideas of others. So I hope this thread can serve that purpose. Some of my ideas are purely speculative; some are partially speculative; and some are quite firm. I'll be sorting all that out in real time, here on this thread. Maybe others will do the same.

Christianity is often spoken of here and elsewhere as something that needs to be “deprogrammed” out of us. I'm beginning to suspect that's all upside down, that instead we've been programmed to think we need to be deprogrammed of it.

Much in the same way the youth here in the west have been programmed to hate their country, I suspect the same applies to Christianity. We're standing on the shoulders of giants, yet we so easily dismiss their wisdom in favor of, frankly, quite a bit of new-age flakery.

We've been led to think that God is some impersonal force, with an assortment of names that we can use willy-nilly according to our mood. I don't think so. I think God's nature is specific and ordered, and God should be addressed as “God” - not “source”, not “the universe” not “consciousness”, not (fill in your cute name for God here). I think we're all aware of this on some level. Show me the guy in the foxhole who cries out, “Source! Please save me Source!” Or the person who prays to the “universe” after a near fatal accident.

The idea of God being male is dismissed outright. I don't think God has a penis, but I think His fundamental energy is masculine. I'm quite certain of this. This is often scoffed at. I've seen God referred to as “she” in what the writer imagines is some clever, progressive troll I s'pose, and I've seen it written that way in earnest. I've heard God described as being genderless as well.

Sometimes it seems none of us will be happy until God is a nameless, genderless, impersonal entity without any preferences or requirements at all. In other words, a God that is utterly meaningless and incomprehensible. This is the “spiritual” approach as far as I can tell. Not terribly inspiring.

In this way, I think it can be argued that “spirituality” does not expand our knowledge and awareness of God, it dilutes it. God – much like “gender” these days - can just mean whatever one wants it to mean or not mean, they say. Wrong, I say.

The Bible is a book of distinctions: Good/evil; God/satan; man/woman; right/wrong. More than ever I see why very firm distinctions are required. We need them for a coherent existence. You'll notice a very direct effort to distort all that lately. Everything is “fluid” – so called “gender”, morality (moral relativism), etc. Perhaps without realizing it, the “spiritual” are doing the same with God – making Him “fluid”. Which is just another way of rendering Him meaningless and obsolete. And I think it's been planned that way.

It's important that we're oriented towards something in life, preferably God; without orientation, you're just twisting in the wind. Life becomes meaningless otherwise, and people become nihilistic and distressed. When one is oriented towards God, all actions and words are cohesive and meaningful...but not if God is a blurry painting; He has to mean something very specific.

I don't think being oriented towards a concept like compassion/nirvana is sufficient to offer this order/orientation for people, long term, particularly within a Godless framework(Buddhism). And it seems to me that the near endless gods in Hinduism mostly confuse and dilute meaning. And I don't think names/concepts like “source” or “universe” (Spirituality) motivate people to worship, live properly, find meaning, and so on. But the Christian ethos does to a much larger degree.

“Spirituality” is insufficient. I just recently started a thread, asking members to define what spirituality means. There were some excellent, thoughtful answers there. But they're all different. In other words, it doesn't have any grounding objectively. By having near countless meanings, it's essentially meaningless. It's not the sort of orienting framework that will help one navigate life and one's relationship to God, in my view.

I think religion is an attempt to collate and order the incomprehensible, and in doing so it can have the effect of reducing God in a way. Spirituality seeks to expand the meaning of God, and in doing so often dilutes it.

Some dogma is required in this pursuit, but religion can be too ordered and restrictive; some freedom is required as well in exploring God, but too much freedom can be chaotic.

But I think Christianity gets it right far more often than "spirituality" does. It's too easy to renounce Christianity in favor of spirituality ..because spirituality doesn't ask anything of you, while Christianity does. Aside from attending mass, confession, and so on, it asks you to assume personal responsibility for your acts and adhere to very specific rules.

You'll always know if you're thriving as a Christian, because it's tenets are all spelled out so clearly, whereas being a spiritual person is largely subjective and morally relative. It's vague and foggy, and I think people prefer that sense of ambiguity because it allows them to act in any way they please without the guilt and shame. And it allows them the excuse to avoid formal practice and the nuisance of personal responsibility and discipline. I think it's often more of a cop out than a noble choice.

Anyway, I've got lots more to say but this is already way too long...

[ExomatrixTV]

When using labels/language to describe anything "spiritual (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600340&viewfull=1#post1600340)" (Christians included!) depends, in my view, heavily on:


01. who says it?
02. in what context?
03. what are the conditioning of that person?
04. why is it expressed that way?
05. what preconceived (often unchecked/unchallenged) assumptions goes along with it?
06. does it have any connections to tunnel vision narratives?
07. what are the expectations? (if any)
08. is it "faith based" if so ... is that based upon (blind?) trusting (https://rumble.com/v41fsj6-its-time-to-wake-up-alan-watts-on-religion.html) certain "authorities" you're not supposed to discuss nor challenge?
09. is it connected to "group think" behavior (not really wanting to use own responsibility for your quality of thinking/reasoning/judging (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120132-Before-you-Judge...)).
10. is it part of a human based agenda?, if so how "flawless" is it? (this dilemma is with everything in life).
11. who controls the definitions? how to "interpreted" them? ... and to what end? really?
12. does that person who "defines" the labels & "use of language" want to learn anything new? ... or is his or her mind already made up?

Is it based upon people "who need to be told how to act/think/reason" assuming that you can "not" do it from within? ... If that is the case, for some individuals it may be necessary indeed to be "guided" that way ... but at the same time there are many people who also get guidance from the heart, from within, doing even more good things/deeds without the need to be told to do so ... Are they "bad people" if they "just do it" without others telling them to do it? ... The assumption that all good deeds/acts without "the blessing of a belief system" seems like over the top control freaks wanting to take credit (claiming monopoly on genuine spirituality) of how they assume it "must" be done ... In my view, there is NO GUARANTEE that Christianity or any other "belief system" is "free" from corruption/abuse & evil (just google: pedophile priests (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122685-Christianity-vs-Spirituality&p=1600398&viewfull=1#post1600398) protected by the Vatican). The same goes for all other "group think" behavior mannerism.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳
v3yuezc/?pub=ir01b

[ExomatrixTV]

Most people who call themselves Christian are regular church goers, and thus dependent on someone else’s interpretation of what in my view is very private and personal.

Science and spirituality ought to lead to higher truths, and while science experiments can be replicated by others, a religious/spiritual experience is for one person only, and all attempts to force those insights on others who are not willing to accept them ought to be discouraged at all cost.

What does "spirituality" mean exactly? To be "spiritual"?

I can tell you exactly what it means to be a Christian in one sentence, in a very specific way, but I couldn't tell you what being "spiritual" means.

Btw, I'm not putting that word in quotes to ridicule it; I'm doing it because it gets so overused in this context that it's become kind of vague and amorphous to me.

As a Near Death Experiencer (and 100,000s like me worldwide) it is certainly not "vague" as I perfectly explained why here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600340&viewfull=1#post1600340) and here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600389&viewfull=1#post1600389) >>> but then again it is just my point of view it is not for everybody ... and I get that! ... I really do not mind others who do not (want to) get it / figure it out! ... Everybody has their own unique journey of discoveries or chose to stay stagnant in certain areas.

Imagine a Universe that allows you to experience any strong held belief you project on others! ... So that you are aware how you have conditioned yourself to that specific frequency (like a mirror).


Would that be "cruel"? ... or is it just self-inflicted madness? ... (depending on the judgmental assumptions) ... Being 100% responsible (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122632-Signs-of-Demon-Possession...&p=1599678&viewfull=1#post1599678) for your own state of vibration!

So how (spiritual (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600340&viewfull=1#post1600340)) wise can you be if this is the case?

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳


source (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122632-Signs-of-Demon-Possession...&p=1600396&viewfull=1#post1600396)

[ExomatrixTV]

Willfully ignored or "overlooked" by most Catholics? ... If so, why?


Pedophile Priests worldwide being protected by the Catholic Vatican

Study among others, "Vatican Sex Crimes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in_the_Society_of_Jesus)" documentary to be found: here (https://vimeo.com/451903098) & here (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ntuuv) and there are countless more reports from all over the world of Catholic priests abusing their authority.


Catholic (Jesuit) Pope Francis Declares Klaus Schwab Is 'More Important' Than Jesus Christ (https://rumble.com/v3ozjw1-pope-francis-declares-klaus-schwab-is-more-important-than-jesus-christ.html)
Catholic (Jesuit) Pope Francis Authorizes WEF To Rewrite 'Fact Checked' Holy Bible (https://rumble.com/v433hnh-pope-francis-authorizes-wef-to-rewrite-fact-checked-holy-bible.html)
Catholic (Jesuit) Pope Francis Orders Christians To 'Pray to Satan' for 'Real Enlightenment' (https://rumble.com/v4c1qni-pope-francis-orders-christians-to-pray-to-satan-for-real-enlightenment.html)
Catholic (Jesuit) Pope Francis Says Disabled People Should Be Euthanized To 'Fight Climate Change' (https://rumble.com/v32vxyi-pope-francis-says-disabled-people-should-be-euthanized-to-fight-climate-cha.html)
Pope Francis Vows To Usher In ‘One World Religion’ (https://rumble.com/v208by0-pope-francis-vows-to-usher-in-one-world-religion.html)

syGoRSMnRuI
cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[norman]

Jesus never started a religion or proposed one or asked anyone to start one.

Jesus never did ritual.

The Romans bastardised the Christ phenomenon, not least by converting the memory of his murder into a blood sacrifice ritual and selling that to billions.

"Religion" is a head thing. It's various flavours and attempts at creating very convincing ( and nefariously useful ) facsimiles of raw or true faith. Faith is not religion, and religions are pretenders inserting themselves into our most natural state, that of pure faith.

When you said you are leaning towards Catholicism my heart sank, but maybe that was only your way of trying to say that you are awakening to something about your true faith but have not yet extracted it from all that catholic/satanic inversion cultural packaging.

[ExomatrixTV]

For the record, I know (personally met) enough wonderful Christians (who I deeply appreciate) who do not have to explain who they are nor "prove themselves" to anyone and practice genuine spirituality (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600340&viewfull=1#post1600340) just for what they are ... and they may well do the same without their religion if they are truly honest about it ... but that is the crux, they are conditioned not to say that out loud sadly enough >>> because that will be seen as "selfish" or "egotistical". Hence, religions LOVE to take all the credit for they think "their way" is "the only way". :facepalm:

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[ExomatrixTV]

The idea of God being male is dismissed outright. I don't think God has a penis, but I think His fundamental energy is male. I'm quite certain of this. This is often scoffed at. I've seen God referred to as “she” in what the writer imagines is some clever, progressive troll I s'pose, and I've seen it written that way in earnest. I've heard God described as being genderless as well.

If your Soul is a Multidimensional Consciousness Being/Entity experiencing how it is to be Human here on Earth >>> but also being an Alien on another planet before that, and maybe you have been both: (male & female) let's assume that is the case ... Why do you think Multidimensional Soul Consciousness choose to do that? ... What could be the purpose of that?


The (in my view) the biggest question of them all:

Why is it that a "Multidimensional Soul Consciousness Being" chooses to have (temporary?) amnesia about who we really are? >>> we all might be very ancient souls! ... What has happened that we lost our heritage/legacy? ... Are we "punished" ? ... Do we live on a "Prison Planet" ... or are we "spiritual (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600340&viewfull=1#post1600340)" tested ? .... To what end? ... Are volunteers coming here to "assist/help" totally underestimated how bad it really is, because of that, gets caught up in a seemingly endless web of unnecessary build up Karma lifetime after lifetime?

Is our brief "existence (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122681-Do-You-Have-An-Existential-Crisis)" here on Earth (let's say on average ±85 years) a less than a split nanosecond in comparison to how old the Universe is! Why should we care about "male vs female" really? (in that context!) ... Think about that!

That is why I will repeat over and over until I die: "Prime Creator is way too big for any man-made (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122685-Christianity-vs-Spirituality&p=1600392&viewfull=1#post1600392) (or alien-made) religion!" it is BEYOND all what we can comprehend within the nanosecond we exist (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122681-Do-You-Have-An-Existential-Crisis) here in this Universe, which is even bigger than that, called: "Multiverse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse)".

On top of all that, we humans only see/sense a super-duper tiny fraction of all frequencies' range/spectrum, claiming we "figured it all out" (not!).


The arrogance is beyond extreme!

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

But I think Christianity gets it right far more often than "spirituality" does. It's too easy to renounce Christianity in favor of spirituality ..because spirituality doesn't ask anything of you, while Christianity does. Aside from attending mass, confession, and so on, it asks you to assume personal responsibility for your acts and adhere to very specific rules.

It depends what you mean by "spirituality". All the above is founded on perhaps a faulty premise of what it means and is...

God
...is not a human being; assigning anthropomorphic qualities to God (like gender) is useless. God is referred to as 'him' as a generalisation, as a tradition, but most understand the "Universal Spirit" or "Source" or whatever, can't possibly have gender, because He/She/It/They are in all things and IS all things. The very simplest reduction of God is love. God is love, and at our lowly human level Love is all we really need to understand and know about God.

We might understand a little better what religion has done to humanity by substituting the word God for Love, and apply it to the following.

Love punishes the wicked
Love hates you, and will cast you to the lake of fire! (as Mitch would say)
It is Love's will
Love favours me, not you
These are Love's chosen people (not those people)
I am a Love fearing man!

Religion stands between you and God. It separates you from God when in (spiritual) reality YOU ARE GOD. Obviously not God in totality, but if God was the ocean you are a drop within that ocean; it is you, and you are it, and no power in the universe can divorce one from the other.

But religion tries. It's tried since the very beginning: in citing this chapter, one gets closer to God. In performing that ritual one is obeying God...

All mind games for the spiritually illiterate, reminding them, each and every time they go to church they are weak and unworthy, and must strive harder to be part of God's kingdom -- when they ARE God's kingdom.

Spirituality is the unfolding realisation that the door to God lies within you. Religion is the government bureaucrat standing in the way and denying you access unless you pay this fee and fill in all this paperwork (and don't forget the small print).

Spirituality is for those who see. Region is for those convinced they are blind.

[ExomatrixTV]

...


Brilliant :clapping:

[DNA]

I believe in an angelic beurocracy with angels acting as stage hands behind the scenes, pulling sand bags, dropping curtains cuing actors, whispering lines occasionally.
The over soul seven books by Jane Roberts I suppose helped to create this view in my mind.
I think folks with a flushed out sophisticated spirituality are fine.
But folks need to remember that humanity as a whole is in need of the type of concrete guidance Christianity brings.

And unlike Judaism and Islam..
Christianity doesn't promote arrogance and give free passes for violence against non practitioners or non believers.

The Tavistock University has been trying to stamp it out with pop music, women's lib, alcoholic debauchery, drug abuse and the promotion of casual sex.

The middle class of America and Europe are under attack and Christianity brings these folks together and helps unite them.

[ulli]

Christianity has produced some amazing mystics, but so have other religions as well.
To me, mysticism is the path of the second way, or “the way of the monk”, as Gurdjieff called it.
Emotional ecstasy, and devotion.
The essential goal of Christianity is transcendence, and overcoming the normal reaction to the enemy, which is to get even.
By commanding to love thy neighbor, and even thy enemy, Christ gave the command to strive for higher consciousness, a level where hatred is no longer a driving force.
While most new age spirituality sends out messages to return people towards self love, via yoga, and other practices.
True spiritual growth has the aim of striving towards overcoming the lower self, and with that intent there is a self evaluation, aka the voice of conscience.
So to me true Christianity includes spirituality, whereas spirituality does not necessarily live up to the Christian ideal.

[Open Minded Dude]

Spirituality is more about 'consciousness' than about GOD (which is what Abrahamic religions are mostly about). It is focussed 'inward' as a mostly (higher-)self discovery path instead of 'outward'. There is no such 'inward' thing in 'exoteric' (outer) religion but (as ulli already correctly put it) in 'esoteric' or 'mystic' streams of religions it exists and always existed. However, the mystic side of religion is suppressed and the general society is mainly faced with the 'exoteric' branches of the Abrahamic religions nowadays.

I personally find 'exoteric' religions dull and literally 'soulless'. For me they are used as a tool to manipulate the masses by the elites, not just today but through the course of history. That is what 'exotericism' was created for in the first place, so I believe.

One of the key elements is the anthropomorphisation of what is 'God' (or Source, All That Is, cal it what you want) - making it/him or them (including all polytheistic religions, e.g. God pantheons of many 'pagan' cults) a 'human'.

Honestly, I find it all 'childish' - quite literally, no matter if mono- or polytheistic. What is also called 'spirituality' is the more 'adult' version of being 'aware' that more exists than this physical world.

However, as I said before, I still don't like this word either because it has been diluted by many things, especially in the West.

For some it is also synonymous to the term "New Age" which has a derisive tone and lots of negative connotations for many already. I think this is what religious people often refer to when they denounce the 'spiritual' people who don't belong to 'their' religion. For them 'New Age' is the same 'thing'. So this thread could also have been named "Religion vs. New Age" or so and we would have the same or a similar discussion.

For me both concepts are insufficient. I reject Religion (exotericism) as well as New Age (when equated to Spirituality).

I do like the mystic branches including those of the religions and even read books and articles about them (Sufism, Christian Mysticism, etc.).

One good example of two mystic branches combined was given by the life and work of Willigis Jaeger from Germany. He was a priest first and then also became an Eastern Zen master. His aim was to combine the best of two worlds by teaching Christian Contemplation techniques and Zen Mindfulness Meditation. He founded a company and a retreats in a monastery in Germany.

If you're interested, here's more (translated):

https://www-benediktushof--holzkirchen-de.translate.goog/benediktushof/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

"Center for meditation and mindfulness

The Benediktushof was founded in 2003 by the Benedictine and Zen master Willigis Jäger (1925-2020) and is now one of the largest centers for Christian contemplation, mindfulness and Zen meditation in Europe. Here people can come to themselves in silence, reflect on the essentials and return to everyday life strengthened with practical impulses."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willigis_J%C3%A4ger

"Willigis Jäger (German: [ˈvɪlɪgɪs ˈjɛːgɐ]; 7 March 1925 – 20 March 2020) was a German Catholic priest and Benedictine monk. He was a Zen master who trained and taught in the Sanbo Kyodan tradition. Jäger founded a centre of Zen and contemplation at the Münsterschwarzach Abbey in 1983, and his own Benediktushof, an inter-faith centre of meditation and awareness, in 2003."

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Religion is without, spirituality is within, and what lies within is yours. It's the only thing in all Creation that truly is yours, and God gave it to you: your consciousness, your beingness, your Eternal Soul. You are therefore Master of your own evolution – not the preacher, the pastor; not the Bible, Torah, or Koran. You don't need religion, because religion assumes authority over you. With one hand it snatches the reins that are YOURS, and whips you into submission with the other.

There are many who turn to religion because they cannot master themselves, and that's fine. But for the seeker who recognises his or her own spiritual sovereignty, they will see religion as a straight-jacket, a cell for the mind and soul.

It must be understood that the fundamental basis of spirituality is the blossoming of inner truth revealed to us by God, or one's higher self if you prefer. This awareness increases over successive incarnations as rich and poor, black and white, male and female, and many more variations; and with greater experience and expanded knowledge we come to learn, as a basic example, what is good, what is bad, and the difference between right and wrong – whereas religion tells you these things.

What it tells you is a distortion anyway. It insists, for example, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This is cause and effect, the law of Karma well-known in spirituality. In religion however, instead of revealing the divine purpose of this law it assumes the form of an executioner's axe.

Christianity denies reincarnation. It would have you believe you only live once. With only one life to get it right, only one life to be saved, all the more reason to go to church, right?

Wrong.

Religion at its core is a political tool devised by Man to control Man and keep him in the dark. Jesus did not come to earth to start a religion; he came to share and circulate higher spiritual truths, and demonstrate the fullness of humanity's potential.

John 14:12
Truly, I say to you, the one who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do...

We are Jesus, we are God. Spirituality unlocks the path to higher learning, religion retards it.

[Bruce G Charlton]

I am a Christian. But it has taken a good bit of thinking to become clear about what that means - and does not mean.

A very short and simple summary is that Christianity is making the choice to follow Jesus Christ through death to resurrected eternal life in Heaven.

This matter of what is aimed-for, what is wanted, after death - and the means of achieving it; is what sets Christianity apart from all other religions and spiritualties. If someone doesn't want resurrected eternal Heavenly life - then they aren't (at present) a Christian.

This can be found set-out and explained in the Fourth Gospel - "John" (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/john-kjv.html) - if you can make the effort to read it afresh (this took me a full year (https://lazaruswrites.blogspot.com/) - and I had already been a Christian for several years) and setting aside what you think you know from other sources.

But Christianity is active, takes effort, is opt-in, and validated not by any external source (church, book, tradition) but ultimately by the deepest intuition we can achieve, with guidance from the Holy Ghost. Everything else depends on primary intuition - and we need to be explicitly aware of the fact.

The key to Christianity is love - but not the modern understanding of love as just a strong emotion, but a recognition that love is the basis of divine creation, therefore of everything good and knowable.

Love of God and divine creation are the basis of wanting "salvation".

[TrumanCash]

Generally speaking, I think "Christianity" has evolved into a mostly positive influence on the world today, in spite of the erroneous dogma. I say this from the perspective of one who was burned at the stake during the Inquisition, LOL! Yes, really.

After growing up with Christianity I was labeled a "blasphemer" and a "devil worshipper" for even mentioning the subject of past lives, which most modern day Christians reject.

After recovering the memories of many past lives and working with abductees/contactees who are followed from lifetime to lifetime by abducting Grays, Mantis, Reptilians and Anunnaki/Elohim, who were actually ETs in flying saucers masquerading as "gods" or as "the one God", I have a unique perspective on the Bible and Christianity from a firsthand viewpoint.

Unfortunately, the Bible has been mistranslated and misunderstood so that has led to various conflicting Christian sects. For sure, there are sociopaths and psychopaths in all religions and that is due to the machinations of the human-looking Anunnaki/Elohim establishing religions with embedded secret societies that practice secret blood-letting, blood-drinking, human sacrifice rituals behind very closed doors while presenting a benevolent facade of which most religious people are unaware.

Christians practice the innocuous mirror of these rituals with the Eucharist wherein they drink the (symbolic) blood of "Christ" (wine or grape juice) and eat a cracker symbolic of the body of Christ. This was originally practiced in Egypt in relation to the fertility "god" Osiris. When the Nile rose and fertilized the grain fields, most Egyptians made ale and made crackers representing the body of Osiris in this fertility ritual. Unbeknownst to the common Egyptians was that the dark side of this ritual was carried out secretly in the Great Pyramid by sacrificing a human being and drinking her blood.

"Christ" originally meant "anointing" and was the fertility ritual practiced in the Middle East thousands of years ago wherein a sculpture of a penis was smeared with oil. In some places a full-size statue with erect penis was mounted by a virgin female. Also, the word "Hell" was never in the Bible; it was originally "Gehenna" a place on the outskirts of Jerusalem. "Hell" was originally the Nordic Goddess of the Underworld. (So how the hell did a Nordic Goddess make it into the Bible?)

Both the Old and New Testaments are based on the machinations of the Anunnaki/Elohim presenting both a light (positive) and dark (negative) side. This was presented in the form of a video documentary "Zeitgeist" and my independent research revealed these were the false "gods" which also included "the one God" concept of a head male "father" God sitting on a throne in the clouds, etc, (e.g., Ptaah in Egypt). Ra was the Son/Sun of God (Ptaah).

If you look at the symbolism in the New Testament it most definitely parallels the Egyptian fertility "god" Osiris, which includes the Eucharist, the cross, the sun/son rising on the third day of the winter solstice (e.g., "Christmas"), good vs evil, dark vs light, sacrifice, etc, etc. In the Middle East there was a ritual that was practiced wherein an animal such as a bull or lamb was laid on a grate with a human underneath. When the animal was slain the person underneath was literally "washed in the blood of the lamb".

Personally, I like the definition of "god" in Galatians--"God is Love". And in reaching far down the time stream in my own past I discovered that, yes, spiritual Love was and is our native state. However, Jordan Maxwell indicted that the phrase was mistranslated and it was actually "God is Jove", which would indicate that "he" was one of the nefarious Anunnaki/Elohim.

Ironically, the Old Testament states: "Ye are Gods". In denial, Christians often state that well, yes, but that's "gods" with a small "g" not "God" with a capital "G" (a concept that I find rather cringe-worthy).

Nevertheless, from my viewpoint and research, this defines the difference between the religious dogma of Christianity and the positive "spiritual" state of Love, which does not function on dogma, but on a positive/benevolent state of being as an individual.

Perhaps the Jesus/Yeshua fellow really walked the Earth and perhaps he was an ET. I say this due to a video documentary that Bill Ryan posted on Avalon THE FRIENDSHIP CASE – THE EXTRAORDINARY STORY OF MASS ALIEN CONTACT (2014).

These ETs live in a constant state of spiritual Love and I highly recommend watching this video if you haven't seen it yet.


https://www.bitchute.com/video/cG30Zu7eHeLA/

[Mike]

Wow, some truly excellent responses here! Thanks all!:heart2:

Before responding knee-jerk I think I'll pray on it first:) (I might be serious here!)

I included a smiley face there because, if I'm a Christian, I'm a lousy one currently. I haven't been to mass in ages, ditto confession, I can't randomly quote scripture, and so on and so forth. So none of this is a lecture from the pulpit; just my impressions and opinions.

I anticipated some fire and brimstone talk, some references to pedophile priests (well done John:)) etc. I'm going to stumble thru some of this. I don't have all the answers and don't pretend to. I'm operating on gut feeling mostly, and it'll be interesting to see if my mind can translate that into coherent sentences.

If this is "The Brothers Karmazov", think of me as Aloysha maybe. And perhaps some of you will be Ivan, or some version of that. I think it's a good intellectual exercise, challenging assumptions on both sides. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Mike]

When using labels/language to describe anything "spiritual (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600340&viewfull=1#post1600340)" (Christians included!) depends, in my view, heavily on:


01. who says it?
02. in what context?
03. what are the conditioning of that person?
04. why is it expressed that way?
05. what preconceived (often unchecked/unchallenged) assumptions goes along with it?
06. does it have any connections to tunnel vision narratives?
07. what are the expectations? (if any)
08. is it "faith based" if so ... is that based upon (blind?) trusting (https://rumble.com/v41fsj6-its-time-to-wake-up-alan-watts-on-religion.html) certain "authorities" you're not supposed to discuss nor challenge?
09. is it connected to "group think" behavior (not really wanting to use own responsibility for your quality of thinking/reasoning/judging (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120132-Before-you-Judge...)).
10. is it part of a human based agenda?, if so how "flawless" is it? (this dilemma is with everything in life).
11. who controls the definitions? how to "interpreted" them? ... and to what end? really?
12. does that person who "defines" the labels & "use of language" want to learn anything new? ... or is his or her mind already made up?

Is it based upon people "who need to be told how to act/think/reason" assuming that you can "not" do it from within? ... If that is the case, for some individuals it may be necessary indeed to be "guided" that way ... but at the same time there are many people who also get guidance from the heart, from within, doing even more good things/deeds without the need to be told to do so ... Are they "bad people" if they "just do it" without others telling them to do it? ... The assumption that all good deeds/acts without "the blessing of a belief system" seems like over the top control freaks wanting to take credit (claiming monopoly on genuine spirituality) of how they assume it "must" be done ... In my view, there is NO GUARANTEE that Christianity or any other "belief system" is "free" from corruption/abuse & evil (just google: pedophile priests (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122685-Christianity-vs-Spirituality&p=1600398&viewfull=1#post1600398) protected by the Vatican). The same goes for all other "group think" behavior mannerism.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳
v3yuezc/?pub=ir01b


Hi John, I view Alan Watts as the sort of comfort food of spirituality. He's like that pizza and nap you have after you've lost $1000 betting the over on the Super Bowl.

I like listening to Alan Watts. Just like I like reading "spiritual" literature (FYI: I'm putting the word "spiritual" in quotes simply because it gets used so often and I don't know what it means exactly).

This will likely sound counterintuitive, but that's sort of the issue I have with him: he's too easy to like. He always makes me feel good. He has a "do as thou wilt" ethos that I find to be more spiritually infantile than spiritually mature. He appeals to the parts of me that do not want to be challenged.

In many ways, I wish he was right about everything. It's like listening to Wayne Dyer, or someone of that ilk; I walk away feeling very fuzzy and warm, but my mind feels like mush. Watts is highly intelligent and has value in fits and spurts, but a steady diet of him is inadvisable, in my view.

It's also my understanding that he died of alcoholism, and was an open drug user. I will be the last to cast judgement here, being quite the drinker myself in the past. But it suggests to me that his spiritual framework was insufficient and didn't orient him towards God in a way meaningful enough to prevent his vices.

re Faith based stuff: faith will always be waiting for all of us at the very end of our intellectual abilities. Even basic things one does on a daily basis involve faith. You trust drivers not to smash into you on the road; you trust the integrity of bridges and traffic lights; you trust that your car won't catch fire on the freeway etc etc etc.

You've really said a mouthful here (lots of good stuff) and I'd like to reply to all of it, but time is of the essence my friend. I hope to eventually get around to it in some shape or form

[Kryztian]

Jesus never started a religion or proposed one or asked anyone to start one.

:facepalm:

Here are a few of Jesus's words that seem that seem to indicate otherwise.


Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 28:16-20



And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
Luke 22:19


- - -


Jesus never did ritual.

Not only did Jesus do rituals, he transformed them.

Not only did he attend the wedding at Cana (a ritual) and then transformed water into wine.

He presided over a Passover Seder (one we now refer to as The Last Supper) and modified the ritual to become The Eucharist. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Eucharist)

He healed people of leprosy and other diseases, drove out demons and caused the death to come back to life.

And sermons were part of his rituals, just as they are part of ours now. And he gave a lot of them.

[Matthew]

With Christianity forget the rules and guilt. Your salvation is not achieved by your works.

[Mike]

[LIST]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=3][B]Willfully ignored or "overlooked" by most Catholics? ...

I'm just as horrified as everyone else with pedophile priests.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) we don't know how many people who identify as "spiritual" or atheist or agnostic that have committed the same atrocity, so in that way accurate judgements are elusive.

It seems inappropriate maybe to be saying something like that, but the thread title is 'Christianity vs Spirituality'; when it comes to something like pedophilia, I don't think we can accurately and justly judge one group to be worse than the other.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


With Christianity forget the rules and guilt. Your salvation is not achieved by your works.

Of course it is:)

[Mike]

Jesus never started a religion or proposed one or asked anyone to start one.

Jesus never did ritual.

The Romans bastardised the Christ phenomenon, not least by converting the memory of his murder into a blood sacrifice ritual and selling that to billions.

"Religion" is a head thing. It's various flavours and attempts at creating very convincing ( and nefariously useful ) facsimiles of raw or true faith. Faith is not religion, and religions are pretenders inserting themselves into our most natural state, that of pure faith.

When you said you are leaning towards Catholicism my heart sank, but maybe that was only your way of trying to say that you are awakening to something about your true faith but have not yet extracted it from all that catholic/satanic inversion cultural packaging.

Hey Norman,

Seems to me that some of that is accurate, some is semi-accurate, some is inaccurate, and some is just confusing (or confusing to me anyway). You lost me a little with the bit on faith.

Please have a look at Chris's post below, #18. Jesus was involved in numerous rituals. I could spend the next 10 mins adding to Chris's list. It might be useful if you define what you mean by "ritual". Perhaps we're talking about something else entirely.

Any spiritual framework that involves God has to be some balance between head and heart, seems to me. You don't want to overintellectualize God, but you don't want to underintellectualize Him either. In my view, "spirituality" underintellectualizes Him, and it's a balance that requires adjusting.

[Anthony Hale]

But I think Christianity gets it right far more often than "spirituality" does. It's too easy to renounce Christianity in favor of spirituality ..because spirituality doesn't ask anything of you, while Christianity does. Aside from attending mass, confession, and so on, it asks you to assume personal responsibility for your acts and adhere to very specific rules.

It depends what you mean by "spirituality". All the above is founded on perhaps a faulty premise of what it means and is...

God
...is not a human being; assigning anthropomorphic qualities to God (like gender) is useless. God is referred to as 'him' as a generalization, as a tradition, but most understand the "Universal Spirit" or "Source" or whatever, can't possibly have gender, because He/She/It/They are in all things and IS all things. The very simplest reduction of God is love. God is love, and at our lowly human level Love is all we really need to understand and know about God.

We might understand a little better what religion has done to humanity by substituting the word God for Love, and apply it to the following.

Love punishes the wicked
Love hates you, and will cast you to the lake of fire! (as Mitch would say)
It is Love's will
Love favours me, not you
These are Love's chosen people (not those people)
I am a Love fearing man!

Religion stands between you and God. It separates you from God when in (spiritual) reality YOU ARE GOD. Obviously not God in totality, but if God was the ocean you are a drop within that ocean; it is you, and you are it, and no power in the universe can divorce one from the other.

But religion tries. It's tried since the very beginning: in citing this chapter, one gets closer to God. In performing that ritual one is obeying God...

All mind games for the spiritually illiterate, reminding them, each and every time they go to church they are weak and unworthy, and must strive harder to be part of God's kingdom -- when they ARE God's kingdom.

Spirituality is the unfolding realization that the door to God lies within you. Religion is the government bureaucrat standing in the way and denying you access unless you pay this fee and fill in all this paperwork (and don't forget the small print).

Spirituality is for those who see. Religion is for those convinced they are blind.

Thank you Mark that resonates…


As a child growing up in a rural Virginia community, my mother would always take me to local Baptist church. She loved to sing in the choir, and I would attend Sunday school.
For her and many others the church brought a sense of community and in some cases a purpose, meaning and escape from a life of struggle and inner turmoil.

For many when they feel their life has no purpose or meaning this is what attracts people to religion, essentially they want a connection to source. All the while
they don’t realize they are source. However for many Religion may act as a starting point for further self-inquiry.

Like most things in creation Religion can serve double duty, having both positive and negative effects. However my own personal view is that main stream, organized religion
is just another control mechanism, to create a middleman between the creator and the creation.

However for the question “what does spirituality mean”.
From a more expanded perspective of all that is, nothing has built in meaning, we give life meaning. We consciousness.

As co-creators we get to decide what something means. The paradox may be that Life/Existence has no meaning.
Universe is a neutral prop, a reflection of what we believe to be true for ourselves. All of these unique experiences and perspectives
are how we continually expand all that is. The experiences are the only things that are empirically real, because they are the only things we can actually take with us.

None of us has ever seen a hearse with luggage racks ;-)

However what we experience is largely determined by our beliefs and our definitions.
These act like filters that we channel our source energy through to create our experiences across all creation.

As we expand and increase our level of knowing, the experiences are less clouded by beliefs. And we get to see deeper into ourselves.
No matter how deep we go, we only see more of ourselves. There is absolutely nothing to fear.

It’s natural for us as we expand our awareness, to start dropping beliefs and definitions that no longer serve us, and replace them with more up to date modalities.

My definition of spiritual is the same as my definition of consciousness, it’s all that exists , there is nothing else, nothing outside of it, everything is happening within consciousness, spirit.

We are in spirit right now, we never leave spirit, any incarnation I take on, is simply a projection of my consciousness, which is multi layered, existing in a variety of frequency domains
that are relevant for my chosen experiences, growth and expansion.

[Jaak]

Im from north and a mix of shamanism/spiritualism.Christianity was forced upon us by crusaders with iron and fire and after they enslaved Estonians for 600+ years they didnt seem to practice the religion that they preached and it left a bad taste in the mouth.Although i do think there is alot of truth in it but i disagree with some things.
Like heaven and hell.How bible describes them they are purely materialistic places and dont exist in spiritual realm . Heaven having all its gold and blingbling that a spiritual person very desperately needs to gaze at for eternity for some reason...No thanks,i would rather spend eternity in nature observing life than to spend it in christian heaven as it is described in bible.It´s unbelievable and doest appeal to me.
And hell with its lake of sulphur and high temperature (temperature is the rate of vibration of molecules/atoms.Just like there aint no temperature/atoms in your dreams,same in spiritual realm).So again,very materialistic place that cant exist in spiritual realm/dimension.
Other things i disagree with are how christianity sees itself as something separate of nature.Maybe because its a desert religion and saying you are the same as sand and cactuses doesnt have much appeal to it..
I believe in reincarnation because it is how soul evolves.The christian version is that soul comes out of nowhere or from god,gets one chance and once it f*cks up then there is no redemption.Only eternal suffering.God who designed this kind of system aint very merciful.

And yet i have used the name Jesus to scatter away demons/jins during out of body experiences for years and it works.Every time! You ever find yourself in sleep paralysis when something scary comes to scare you to suck your energy then confidently say Jesus and poof they are gone.You will only believe that once you experience it..
Thats why i have had some thoughts to get baptyzed ,kind of pure curiosity if it will make me feel different in certain level..

And also i dont agree that one can save his soul by prayin to jesus but by being like him.Two main sins are ignorance and selfishness,everything else spawns from that.To conquer those ,one must need to learn,learn,learn.Best teacher is experience.We get as many attempts as necessary to polish off ignorance and selfishness from our soul...

Bible was composed by council of Niccea and they left out the part where Jesus goes to underworld and talks with demons.They say they torment the souls as long as they are ready to be born again .Reincarnation. Nothing else comes to mind at the moment.

[Kryztian]

With all religions, I think there are two contradictory elements at play.


They enlighten, liberate and empower people. They motivate individuals to be there best possible selves, moving beyond fear, anxiety, grief. They help us to understand that the best things in life aren't things, but rather something that is spiritual, something that we need to focus our attention on in prayer, meditation and in our daily lives.


They enslave, weaken and mind control us. They make us better cogs in the wheel of society that supports a tyrannical elite group of people. They present God as a vengeful ogre whom you most obey or you will be punished in extreme ways, or for eternity. And they will tell you to follow "God's Laws", which, as it just so happens, are the rules that will empower this tyrannical elite.


Of course you will find these two contrary elements within the same religion, although they will be expressed differently at different places and times. Which one dominates depends a lot on how the religion is practiced. You can choose to support religious demagogues, or you can find ways to learn from and to teach your brethren.

[Mike]

But I think Christianity gets it right far more often than "spirituality" does. It's too easy to renounce Christianity in favor of spirituality ..because spirituality doesn't ask anything of you, while Christianity does. Aside from attending mass, confession, and so on, it asks you to assume personal responsibility for your acts and adhere to very specific rules.

It depends what you mean by "spirituality". All the above is founded on perhaps a faulty premise of what it means and is...

God
...is not a human being; assigning anthropomorphic qualities to God (like gender) is useless. God is referred to as 'him' as a generalisation, as a tradition, but most understand the "Universal Spirit" or "Source" or whatever, can't possibly have gender, because He/She/It/They are in all things and IS all things. The very simplest reduction of God is love. God is love, and at our lowly human level Love is all we really need to understand and know about God.

We might understand a little better what religion has done to humanity by substituting the word God for Love, and apply it to the following.

Love punishes the wicked
Love hates you, and will cast you to the lake of fire! (as Mitch would say)
It is Love's will
Love favours me, not you
These are Love's chosen people (not those people)
I am a Love fearing man!

Religion stands between you and God. It separates you from God when in (spiritual) reality YOU ARE GOD. Obviously not God in totality, but if God was the ocean you are a drop within that ocean; it is you, and you are it, and no power in the universe can divorce one from the other.

But religion tries. It's tried since the very beginning: in citing this chapter, one gets closer to God. In performing that ritual one is obeying God...

All mind games for the spiritually illiterate, reminding them, each and every time they go to church they are weak and unworthy, and must strive harder to be part of God's kingdom -- when they ARE God's kingdom.

Spirituality is the unfolding realisation that the door to God lies within you. Religion is the government bureaucrat standing in the way and denying you access unless you pay this fee and fill in all this paperwork (and don't forget the small print).

Spirituality is for those who see. Region is for those convinced they are blind.


God was a human being actually. Went by the name of Jesus. Maybe you've heard of him:)

Your explanation is eloquent and poetic. You almost had me for a moment! I enjoyed reading it and it would look nice on a postcard, but it's so vague as to be rendered meaningless. Mark I'm not convinced you believe all that! I think you would like to believe all that maybe. God is love? What does that mean? This is the gripe I have with spirituality, which I tried to articulate in my OP.

Religion often stumbles and gets it wrong, but that's a natural consequence of it's boldness in trying to articulate God in specific ways. Spirituality sits on the sidelines and laughs, but never makes an earnest effort of its own. It hides behind vague and foggy platitudes, while imagining itself superior.

I think religion creates a bridge between God and humanity, albeit a very imperfect one. It dares to try, openly, which merits a certain degree of respect from me. Spirituality cloaks it's unwillingness to be bold and specific with lofty notions of egolessness and vague and pithy statements that suggest wisdom but offer no clear paths forward.

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

[Mike]

I believe in an angelic beurocracy with angels acting as stage hands behind the scenes, pulling sand bags, dropping curtains cuing actors, whispering lines occasionally.
The over soul seven books by Jane Roberts I suppose helped to create this view in my mind.
I think folks with a flushed out sophisticated spirituality are fine.
But folks need to remember that humanity as a whole is in need of the type of concrete guidance Christianity brings.

And unlike Judaism and Islam..
Christianity doesn't promote arrogance and give free passes for violence against non practitioners or non believers.

The Tavistock University has been trying to stamp it out with pop music, women's lib, alcoholic debauchery, drug abuse and the promotion of casual sex.

The middle class of America and Europe are under attack and Christianity brings these folks together and helps unite them.

Hey Marcus, I agree, I think most people require the structure religion provides, not just as a means of knowing God but as a prescription for life. There are some people that can exist outside that paradigm and maintain a proper orientation (the ones with a fully fleshed out spirituality as you say) but I think they're few in number.

The rest are kind of dangling in the tournafortia. How many people do you know who maintain a coherent, structured, clearly defined spirituality outside of religion and actually adhere to it's principles? I think I might know 2(in my entire life). The others I know in my daily life imagine they do, but they clearly don't.

How do I know? I just observe their lives, and it becomes obvious. I put myself in this group too btw...I'm also in the neurotic tribe of the lost. My buffet table spirituality, which I once thought so clever and hip, has proven to be quite empty

[Mike]

Christianity has produced some amazing mystics, but so have other religions as well.
To me, mysticism is the path of the second way, or “the way of the monk”, as Gurdjieff called it.
Emotional ecstasy, and devotion.
The essential goal of Christianity is transcendence, and overcoming the normal reaction to the enemy, which is to get even.
By commanding to love thy neighbor, and even thy enemy, Christ gave the command to strive for higher consciousness, a level where hatred is no longer a driving force.
While most new age spirituality sends out messages to return people towards self love, via yoga, and other practices.
True spiritual growth has the aim of striving towards overcoming the lower self, and with that intent there is a self evaluation, aka the voice of conscience.
So to me true Christianity includes spirituality, whereas spirituality does not necessarily live up to the Christian ideal.


That's a great post. I've read it several times:thumbsup: I'll have to think a bit before I respond properly.

[Mike]

Note: I appreciate all the thoughtful posts here. I'll certainly reply to all of them when I can. I always feel slightly guilty about not immediately responding to everyone. "Catholic guilt" perhaps:)

[ulli]

I for one am not expecting a response, Mike. Please don’t feel obliged.

I’m just glad we have a thread here that tackles ideas about religion, faith, consciousness and spirituality.

[Casey Claar]

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

What does that mean? "dabbled in spirituality".

[Mike]

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

What does that mean? "dabbled in spirituality".


Hi Casey, I'm leaving myself open to criticism there, because the obvious rebuttal will be that I wasn't dedicated enough, and there may be some truth to that. But I don't really think so.

When I say "spirituality", I'm basically referring to anything outside of religion that professes to expand or enrich one's soul/mind/body or draw one closer to God in some way.

There will be some obvious overlap with the "New Age", though they're not exactly the same thing.

So what have I dabbled in?

- zen meditation
- astrology
- psychic readings (perhaps a couple dozen times)
- hands on healing
- distance energy healing (various forms)
- Chakra exercises
- visualization exercises
- yoga
- Astral projection

...and about a million other things I can't think of atm.

An aside: a concerned friend of mine on the forum pm'd me recently and asked me, in so many words, if I'd really planned on getting a healing from Mitch, who by all reasonable standards appeared to be a complete lunatic. And part of my response was, it's basically the only thing I haven't tried yet:)

[norman]

Mike, speaking from own experience only, the most important part of achieving a goal or understanding, has not been the addition of new information ( although that is important too ) but has been the part of untangling myself from the mostly unexamined stuff of where I'm starting or coming from.

I don't know you very well but I think I know that you are very much into words and writing, and most importantly, the neuronal patterns and habits that go with that. New information' might then turn out to not be anything particularly new after all, it might just be stuff you already had in front of you but had been stepping straight over it as environmental clutter in you way.

I suggest, for what it's worth, that you examine the place and state you ARE right now, as the first foot forwards.

You'll probably end up writing about it, but that's not the objective :)

[shaberon]

Taking a look at this, it appears that something called Christianity that values God is being watered down by morally relativistic generic spirituality.


Is anyone aware this is the same caution that Christianity--the Church of Jerusalem--warns about false Christianity--Popery and Protestantism?


Is anyone a practicing member of the Church of Jerusalem?

Isn't the deity actually called El?

I have no idea about any of that stuff, because I am a follower of Dharma, and I have learned how "religion" is the opposite in most respects.

However, I can say there is a type of "Rosetta Stone"--the Rock Edicts of Ashoka, ca. 300 B. C. E.--where our beloved Dharma translates into Greek as "Eusebia". Does this hold any meaning for anyone?


I admit the poverty of English leaves me at a point where, no, I don't think terms like "spirituality" are adequate or useful, and I guess it has gotten more difficult to express anything I am trying to say, and it does not quite fit the Semitic lore either.

It almost fits the Mandaean lore, or, I would say this is the clearest and most interesting of all the Semitic stuff. This and Hesychasm. You can't join the Mandaeans but you can become a Hesychast, which is the practice within the Church of Jerusalem.


I tend to agree with the not-watered-down concept, as I have certainly experienced difficulty with it. Particularly by trying to blend ideas from everywhere like the Mayans and Persians and so on, on top of some aspect of every known religion, and it didn't really work. I had to boil it down to the more substantial traditions. I was within one step or was invited to convert to Islam and Orthodoxy. In the long run I was left with Buddhism.

Now, even though the reason for that is that at a certain point--and at times quite strongly--I do not agree with what seem to be some of the required precepts for those theologies--I think, for the most part, on a humanistic level, we are all about the same.

I think that is how Russia works, which is how you get Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists all voluntarily fighting on the same side. It works because Orthodoxy requires a tolerant domain, and what you have is the addition of other actual traditions, and not so much a bunch of watered-down spiritual ideas.


I agree that anyone has a right to say a liturgy or hold a belief that is not the same as mine, but, the line will be drawn when that is used as a basis for favoritism or supremacy in a political way.

I would also suggest that in the ancient world, "religions" and clean politics were mixed in the tradition of Debt Jubilee. You can find it in the Code of Hammurabi ca. 1850 B. C. E. and in the Book of Leviticus. The definition of a "good king" lay mostly in protecting the public from the predatory financial class. We then find in the Rg Veda the Akkadian word "benkata" for "money-lender", who gets added on to the ancient list of Our Enemies. However the practice of such protection died and was erased in the Roman Empire.

Because I can find support for this in a Jewish, Christian, Islamic, or Indian context, I would be prepared to argue for everyone's benefit that this is part of "real non-denominational spirituality".

[Casey Claar]

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

What does that mean? "dabbled in spirituality".


Hi Casey, I'm leaving myself open to criticism there, because the obvious rebuttal will be that I wasn't dedicated enough, and there may be some truth to that. But I don't really think so.

When I say "spirituality", I'm basically referring to anything outside of religion that professes to expand or enrich one's soul/mind/body or draw one closer to God in some way.

There will be some obvious overlap with the "New Age", though they're not exactly the same thing.

So what have I dabbled in?

- zen meditation
- astrology
- psychic readings (perhaps a couple dozen times)
- hands on healing
- distance energy healing (various forms)
- Chakra exercises
- visualization exercises
- yoga
- Astral projection

...and about a million other things I can't think of atm.

An aside: a concerned friend of mine on the forum pm'd me recently and asked me, in so many words, if I'd really planned on getting a healing from Mitch, who by all reasonable standards appeared to be a complete lunatic. And part of my response was, it's basically the only thing I haven't tried yet:)

Mike,

Thank you for this answer.

What I would be really interested to get at now, are your disciplines. Just bringing in your word "dabbled", did you just sort of date each of the things on this list and then go your separate ways? When you practiced, say meditation, how often would you practice and for how long? did you practice in a group and/or on your own? were the practices formal ( a set time and place for a certain duration ) or informal? Why did you practice? Did you ever do more than toe the water? If not, why? If yes, I am interested! Where are you now in your practice? It is correct that dabbling does not get one very far. Discipline is required -discipline is what brings what is once practice into becoming a way of life. <--This is when things begin to get interesting.

[DNA]

Here we are,,, living in a time when human trafficking exists on a HUGE scale and it exists to snatch and grab and then sell children.
If it's one thing we know about the elite...
It's that they are Satan worshiping child sacrificing pedophiles.
We have the documents we have the escaped survival testimony.
Epstien is merely a franchise owner in a global company that is ubiquitous in certain economic strata.

If this is to be combatted.
If this is to be fought...
Folks must feel emboldened to do so in a frame work of understanding.

No better ally can be had than Christianity.
Christianity provides solace and meaning when the horrors of what is going on are a tad more than most human psyches can handle.

Christianity should be promoted and encouraged. Especially by those here who think they know what is going on.
Especially by those here who have climbed the solitary journey of spirituality and now know how difficult and lonely that trip was.

We don't have time for abstract nebulous theories. We need concrete well established psychologically supporting help here.

We NEED Christianity now more than ever.

[Mike]

Taking a look at this, it appears that something called Christianity that values God is being watered down by morally relativistic generic spirituality.

Thank you. Yes, this is exactly what I'm driving at.

What we call spirituality, no matter how authenticically applied, is something like a gateway drug to moral relativism. It cannot define itself, and is therefore objectively meaningless. It's all inclusive. It recognizes "your truth" and "my truth" . It refuses to recognize certain boundaries, and is therfore rather amorphous and chaotic. It offers an ethos of "do you" and don't worry about the consequences necessarily.

Some people will recognize those things as the components that make up "woke". I do think that most of what passes as spirituality these days is a postmodern, woke religion.

I see it as an invitation to chaos. There can be no God in a morally relativistic world, and therefore everything goes. No rules, no boundaries, no law, no morality.

I won't sit here and say that Christianity is the answer to it all, but it recognizes absolutes. I will say it again: God has to mean something very specific, or the world will suffer. Christianity, for all its faults, is very specific.

[Casey Claar]

In the same way as Christianity can be confused with what it is not, so, too, can Spirituality.

These need not be posed against one another. It is well and good to have a preference for the language one uses, and the practices she/he undergoes, but not to the point of feeling any one is more or less superior at its basis than another. This is the mistake we, as humans like to keep stepping into. You will have a more beneficial outcome if you place these CONCEPTS, raw - onto a level playing field.

I drafted this up for someone once.

______________________

https://consciousnessexplorationblog.files.wordpress.com/2024/02/screen-shot-2017-01-06-at-7.45.30-pm.jpeg

______________________

We all have to go through this process.

I went through it in a yogic sphere, myself being a jnani ( and most others tantric ) I at first had a strong bent toward that language and those practices. But at a certain point, in order to go any further in my understanding than I presently was, I had to learn from the perspective of tantrika what tantra is. Once I allowed this, and it was a process that took many years, but once I allowed it, it was all of a sudden like I had the secret decoder ring to all languages. I began to be able to use them all--interchangeably.

Level the playing field to see the pattern. All cosmologies will have their own language,

But what they are saying/relaying at their core is always the same.

[Matthew]

[...

[/COLOR]
With Christianity forget the rules and guilt. Your salvation is not achieved by your works.

Of course it is:)

Absolutely not, you are so wrong. It's by the blood of Christ and his works. You are made righteous by your faith. The law is a curse.

[Mike]

[...

[/COLOR]
With Christianity forget the rules and guilt. Your salvation is not achieved by your works.

Of course it is:)

Absolutely not, you are so wrong. It's by the blood of Christ and his works. You are made righteous by your faith. The law is a curse.

Ok, fair enough! In Christianity, salvation is by the blood of Christ. True! (I did say I'd stumble thru this a little!:))

But I'd say you're made righteous by your faith *and* your acts.

What law is a curse? Can you elaborate a little? Thanks.

[Mike]

Spirituality is more about 'consciousness' than about GOD (which is what Abrahamic religions are mostly about). It is focussed 'inward' as a mostly (higher-)self discovery path instead of 'outward'. There is no such 'inward' thing in 'exoteric' (outer) religion but (as ulli already correctly put it) in 'esoteric' or 'mystic' streams of religions it exists and always existed. However, the mystic side of religion is suppressed and the general society is mainly faced with the 'exoteric' branches of the Abrahamic religions nowadays.

I personally find 'exoteric' religions dull and literally 'soulless'. For me they are used as a tool to manipulate the masses by the elites, not just today but through the course of history. That is what 'exotericism' was created for in the first place, so I believe.

One of the key elements is the anthropomorphisation of what is 'God' (or Source, All That Is, cal it what you want) - making it/him or them (including all polytheistic religions, e.g. God pantheons of many 'pagan' cults) a 'human'.

Honestly, I find it all 'childish' - quite literally, no matter if mono- or polytheistic. What is also called 'spirituality' is the more 'adult' version of being 'aware' that more exists than this physical world.

However, as I said before, I still don't like this word either because it has been diluted by many things, especially in the West.

For some it is also synonymous to the term "New Age" which has a derisive tone and lots of negative connotations for many already. I think this is what religious people often refer to when they denounce the 'spiritual' people who don't belong to 'their' religion. For them 'New Age' is the same 'thing'. So this thread could also have been named "Religion vs. New Age" or so and we would have the same or a similar discussion.

For me both concepts are insufficient. I reject Religion (exotericism) as well as New Age (when equated to Spirituality).

I do like the mystic branches including those of the religions and even read books and articles about them (Sufism, Christian Mysticism, etc.).

One good example of two mystic branches combined was given by the life and work of Willigis Jaeger from Germany. He was a priest first and then also became an Eastern Zen master. His aim was to combine the best of two worlds by teaching Christian Contemplation techniques and Zen Mindfulness Meditation. He founded a company and a retreats in a monastery in Germany.

If you're interested, here's more (translated):

https://www-benediktushof--holzkirchen-de.translate.goog/benediktushof/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

"Center for meditation and mindfulness

The Benediktushof was founded in 2003 by the Benedictine and Zen master Willigis Jäger (1925-2020) and is now one of the largest centers for Christian contemplation, mindfulness and Zen meditation in Europe. Here people can come to themselves in silence, reflect on the essentials and return to everyday life strengthened with practical impulses."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willigis_J%C3%A4ger

"Willigis Jäger (German: [ˈvɪlɪgɪs ˈjɛːgɐ]; 7 March 1925 – 20 March 2020) was a German Catholic priest and Benedictine monk. He was a Zen master who trained and taught in the Sanbo Kyodan tradition. Jäger founded a centre of Zen and contemplation at the Münsterschwarzach Abbey in 1983, and his own Benediktushof, an inter-faith centre of meditation and awareness, in 2003."


Hey OMD, interesting stuff.

I think what you're calling exoteric religion, while not as sexy as the inward variety, is required for the masses. Dogma is really a form of consensus, and it's required for any kind of ordered, coherent world. People need to be united under a common rubrick; and as history tells us: if it's not religion (or something resembling religious values) it is often the state. And we know how that goes.

Very few people have the discipline to engage their inner worlds, so I think that approach is reserved for the few and not the many.

Thanks for the links

[Mike]

I am a Christian. But it has taken a good bit of thinking to become clear about what that means - and does not mean.

A very short and simple summary is that Christianity is making the choice to follow Jesus Christ through death to resurrected eternal life in Heaven.

This matter of what is aimed-for, what is wanted, after death - and the means of achieving it; is what sets Christianity apart from all other religions and spiritualties. If someone doesn't want resurrected eternal Heavenly life - then they aren't (at present) a Christian.

This can be found set-out and explained in the Fourth Gospel - "John" (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/john-kjv.html) - if you can make the effort to read it afresh (this took me a full year (https://lazaruswrites.blogspot.com/) - and I had already been a Christian for several years) and setting aside what you think you know from other sources.

But Christianity is active, takes effort, is opt-in, and validated not by any external source (church, book, tradition) but ultimately by the deepest intuition we can achieve, with guidance from the Holy Ghost. Everything else depends on primary intuition - and we need to be explicitly aware of the fact.

The key to Christianity is love - but not the modern understanding of love as just a strong emotion, but a recognition that love is the basis of divine creation, therefore of everything good and knowable.

Love of God and divine creation are the basis of wanting "salvation".

Excellent Bruce, and thank you.

As you've demonstrated, Christianity is quite specific, and can be summed up quite easily (as opposed to spirituality). In any religion or philosophy or spiritual framework, one has to have a single point of reference if it's to offer any kind of orientating mechanism or coherence...and this is where Christianity separates itself.

Christianity, being active and opt-in and requiring effort: Not all, but I think a significant number of "spiritual" people choose that approach as a default action in order to avoid the sweat and toil of Christianity.

Appreciate you making the distinction between the different brands of love. That had a way of reordering the shapes in my brain, if that makes any sense. Your explanation makes perfect sense to me.

[Mike]

Generally speaking, I think "Christianity" has evolved into a mostly positive influence on the world today, in spite of the erroneous dogma. I say this from the perspective of one who was burned at the stake during the Inquisition, LOL! Yes, really.

After growing up with Christianity I was labeled a "blasphemer" and a "devil worshipper" for even mentioning the subject of past lives, which most modern day Christians reject.

After recovering the memories of many past lives and working with abductees/contactees who are followed from lifetime to lifetime by abducting Grays, Mantis, Reptilians and Anunnaki/Elohim, who were actually ETs in flying saucers masquerading as "gods" or as "the one God", I have a unique perspective on the Bible and Christianity from a firsthand viewpoint.

Unfortunately, the Bible has been mistranslated and misunderstood so that has led to various conflicting Christian sects. For sure, there are sociopaths and psychopaths in all religions and that is due to the machinations of the human-looking Anunnaki/Elohim establishing religions with embedded secret societies that practice secret blood-letting, blood-drinking, human sacrifice rituals behind very closed doors while presenting a benevolent facade of which most religious people are unaware.

Christians practice the innocuous mirror of these rituals with the Eucharist wherein they drink the (symbolic) blood of "Christ" (wine or grape juice) and eat a cracker symbolic of the body of Christ. This was originally practiced in Egypt in relation to the fertility "god" Osiris. When the Nile rose and fertilized the grain fields, most Egyptians made ale and made crackers representing the body of Osiris in this fertility ritual. Unbeknownst to the common Egyptians was that the dark side of this ritual was carried out secretly in the Great Pyramid by sacrificing a human being and drinking her blood.

"Christ" originally meant "anointing" and was the fertility ritual practiced in the Middle East thousands of years ago wherein a sculpture of a penis was smeared with oil. In some places a full-size statue with erect penis was mounted by a virgin female. Also, the word "Hell" was never in the Bible; it was originally "Gehenna" a place on the outskirts of Jerusalem. "Hell" was originally the Nordic Goddess of the Underworld. (So how the hell did a Nordic Goddess make it into the Bible?)

Both the Old and New Testaments are based on the machinations of the Anunnaki/Elohim presenting both a light (positive) and dark (negative) side. This was presented in the form of a video documentary "Zeitgeist" and my independent research revealed these were the false "gods" which also included "the one God" concept of a head male "father" God sitting on a throne in the clouds, etc, (e.g., Ptaah in Egypt). Ra was the Son/Sun of God (Ptaah).

If you look at the symbolism in the New Testament it most definitely parallels the Egyptian fertility "god" Osiris, which includes the Eucharist, the cross, the sun/son rising on the third day of the winter solstice (e.g., "Christmas"), good vs evil, dark vs light, sacrifice, etc, etc. In the Middle East there was a ritual that was practiced wherein an animal such as a bull or lamb was laid on a grate with a human underneath. When the animal was slain the person underneath was literally "washed in the blood of the lamb".

Personally, I like the definition of "god" in Galatians--"God is Love". And in reaching far down the time stream in my own past I discovered that, yes, spiritual Love was and is our native state. However, Jordan Maxwell indicted that the phrase was mistranslated and it was actually "God is Jove", which would indicate that "he" was one of the nefarious Anunnaki/Elohim.

Ironically, the Old Testament states: "Ye are Gods". In denial, Christians often state that well, yes, but that's "gods" with a small "g" not "God" with a capital "G" (a concept that I find rather cringe-worthy).

Nevertheless, from my viewpoint and research, this defines the difference between the religious dogma of Christianity and the positive "spiritual" state of Love, which does not function on dogma, but on a positive/benevolent state of being as an individual.

Perhaps the Jesus/Yeshua fellow really walked the Earth and perhaps he was an ET. I say this due to a video documentary that Bill Ryan posted on Avalon THE FRIENDSHIP CASE – THE EXTRAORDINARY STORY OF MASS ALIEN CONTACT (2014).

These ETs live in a constant state of spiritual Love and I highly recommend watching this video if you haven't seen it yet.


https://www.bitchute.com/video/cG30Zu7eHeLA/


Hey Truman,

I'd likely have burned during the Inquisition as well, believing in reincarnation and all. And that's only one of my crimes:) I'm trying to make an argument for Christianity, but I'm a pretty poor Christian myself.

I read all that with great interest, and finished with a depressing realization that I have quite a lot to learn. I'd like to see you and Shaberon chop it up for a few hours.

Curious: why do you think Christianity is mostly a positive influence on the world today?

[Matthew]

You are accountable to Jesus for every word you say, but your works will not set you free. ONLY the blood of Christ and your faith and that's it.

The law started with 10 laws, then that expanded to 613, then Jesus came and chaged the covenant. Be a better person but as a conviction from the Holy Spirit, not pursuit of laws. The law has failed every human except Jesus, it doesn't work. I'll try and elaborate better later

[DNA]

You are accountable to Jesus for every word you say, but your works will not set you free. ONLY the blood of Christ and your faith and that's it.

The law started with 10 laws, then that expanded to 613, then Jesus came and chaged the covenant. Be a better person but as a conviction from the Holy Spirit, not pursuit of laws. The law has failed every human except Jesus, it doesn't work. I'll try and elaborate better later

And that's the rub.
I don't believe anything that comes out of the Bible.
You go back to the Gnostics and everything you just said is horse sh!t.
The Gnostics said we are responsible for our own development and no amount faith or Jesus blood was going to do the trick.

Now if we were to meet in church I would just nod a empty platitude your way because I would know the uselessness of offering a different take here.
Don't get me wrong this simplistic faith and heaven thing is great.
I think it's great for the masses and I think it's great for the truth movement.
I personally do not believe in it at all but it's absolutely essential.

I personally believe most of our world religions are ancient astronaut theory derived and have since then been manipulated repeatedly. Molested really if you want to be honest about it.

But make no mistake.
There are gods with little g"s in the Astral bathing in the collective energy of their worshipers and cording them energetically
Just like a spiritual guru dressed like Buddha would do.

I'm not a fan of religions or spiritual teachers either. Spiritual teachers seem great until they are trying to energetically rape you. Or rape you rape you. Or both.

But....
For our present situation we
need Christianity.
And we need it at its most easily understood and derived form. The faith is all you need form.

[ExomatrixTV]

I studied this documentary multiple times in the mid 1990s, 30 years ago!

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51M5fIJwzmL._SY445_.jpg

Even used parts of it for my lectures and aired it on Local TV Amsterdam 🇳🇱


I remember me saying (way back): "Every time when I give a UFO Lecture I get harassed by fanatic Christians claiming that "all" UFOs and/or Aliens are "just demons" then I would reply calmly: Have you studied the documentary called: "The Naked Truth"? ... If not, that I wait until you do, then we can talk further, otherwise I am wasting my time hearing the same stuff over and over and over again going nowhere (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQiOA7euaYA)! ... Nowadays am a bit milder ;) see this (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122632-Signs-of-Demon-Possession...&p=1599311&viewfull=1#post1599311) and this (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122632-Signs-of-Demon-Possession...&p=1599319&viewfull=1#post1599319)!

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳
yJBcA_KlZpw
The Documentary "The Naked Truth" traces the origins of modern religions back to stories from numerous ancient civilizations.

Due to the lack of science and facts, stories were created by our ancient ancestors in provide explanations to the amazing, bizarre, frightening, but natural wonders of the world.

Earthquakes, volcanoes, tornadoes, lightning, hurricanes, and other forces of nature could not be explained such a long time ago, so stories and tales were created by the human imagination to provide answers to these unexplainable natural occurrences.

Today, we know that Egyptian, Roman, Greek, and other mythology originated from man’s imagination to explain the natural world, but are modern religions so different?

Are the similarities between Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, and other saviors and prophets mere coincidences? Or is there a clear and simple explanation that ties all modern religions together?

Pastor Bill Jenkins is the founder and Senior Pastor of Destinyland Christian Center in Rancho Cucamonga, Ca. He is a television and radio host, award winning author, and is rapidly becoming known as an Apostle of God with a prophetic voice. He works to release a message of hope in our world, with uncompromising spiritual fervor. Pastor Bill takes on the toughest passages of scripture and explains them in a practical and interesting way. He is the “go-to-guy” when it comes to understanding Biblical numbers and their spiritual significance. A devoted husband and father, his passion is for others to become successful as they apply the principles of Christ.

He also married his beautiful wife Britain in 1998, and they have 3 sons Bryce Brock and Brady. Pastor Bill enjoys spending time with his family and firmly believes that in order to be a leader of any kind you first must be a good leader and a Godly man in your home.

This Naked Truth really answered one of my important questions, why so many Religions if they believe in the same creator God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I was baptised in a Christian church decades ago and then questions came to my mind why there so many religions and being that many which is the number one Religion in the World. Had many questions just no answers that my mind conceived to be the real truth. Jordan Maxwell explained it very simplistic terms and the truth to why and things became much clearer that Astrology is the true Religion just not one Religion will even explore it commonly known as Sin. Now makes full sense in why most of the religions follow Astrology time line which came from the Egyptians just all worded differently or even the same when comes from the Kings James Version of the Bible.

https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9781568890067-us.jpg

"The Naked Truth" ("TNT") series consists of a one-hour and a two-hour video that delve into the origins of religion, providing some of the important information found in The Christ Conspiracy (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_38.htm) and Suns of God - Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled (http://www.amazon.com/Suns-God-Krishna-Buddha-Unveiled/dp/1931882312/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241574534&sr=8-1).

This unique series is excellent for turning on friends and family to this explosive info. It is also a superb teaching tool for schools and churches, done in a very professional manner with distinguished spokespeople. The series is not a dry, scholarly chronicle, but incorporates relevant and fascinating facts into an accessible and comprehensible format for everyone of all ages and educational backgrounds.

Find out the secrets behind Christianity!

Why are the religious symbols of ancient Egypt almost identical to those of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions?

Learn how orthodox religious institutions have suppressed these truths to consolidate their power over the masses!

The one-hour version of The Naked Truth is ideal for people on the move, while the long version provides two riveting hours of revelation comparing the ancient texts of the Hindus, Sumerians, Persians and Egyptians with the holy books of later religions, in order to expose:


Uncanny similarities like those between the Virgin births (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_32.htm) of Krishna, Mithra, Osiris/Horus and Jesus...
Underlying astrological symbolism such as the two fishes of Christianity, representing the Age of Pisces...
How sun worship of the pagans was transformed into "Son" worship (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_57.htm#Sun of God) of today's Christians...
The history of the suppression of thought that has led to "holy wars," the Inquisition (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/vatican_holyinquisition.htm) and other reprehensible acts by the so-called righteous!

The Naked Truth examines centuries-old texts from different cultures that contain the exact same phrases - yet these cultures supposedly never interacted!
Were ancient pre-Christian texts plagiarized by conspiratorial religious zealots?

We all know it's easier to watch a video than to read a book, and only with a video can we share the experience with friends and family! Many people have had life-changing experiences while watching these videos--they are that powerful in freeing the soul of humanity from erroneous and enslaving ideologies.

The following is an actual, unsolicited testimonial:
I viewed "The Naked Truth" videos and was "set free" from Christian fundamentalism. I never fit in too well anyway, asked too many questions.... Keep up the much needed and great work!
William Smith

Watched "The Naked Truth" video. Excellent - loved it! Bravo! I am going to show the stuff to some Muslim friends and maybe open their eyes once and for all... I have been showing it to my friends, and everyone loves it....

Very, very interesting news with this video; gave it to Iranian friend whose daughter goes to church. Making long story short, the church people saw it and several people got up and left, believing this is the work of devil, and several other people stopped going to church. A mini-revolution...!

Showed the videos to several other folks here at work, including a Jew, and they are all saying, "Man this is cool!" I know! I love it!
Reza P.
Houston, TX


torrent (https://piratebayproxy.live/torrent/34265116/Jordan_Maxwell_-_The_Naked_Truth_-_Exposing_the_Deceptions_About)

<<! edit update-->>


Derek Partridge introduces himself, emphasizing his extensive background in journalism, TV, and spokesperson roles for various companies.
Discussion on the symbolism and traditions in various religions throughout history, highlighting the complexities surrounding religious symbols like the Holy Grail.
Symbolism has been integral to religious traditions, evolving over time from simpler to more sophisticated concepts.
The symbolism of Christianity's cup of wine at the Last Supper and the concept of masculine sacrifice are discussed.
Reflections on spiritual growth and the role of traditions, rituals, and personal understanding in nurturing a deeper connection with the divine.
The video questions the certainty of religious beliefs and their implications on humanity's moral judgment.
the diversity of religious beliefs worldwide and the challenges of determining the correctness of one's faith amidst various religious claims.
Contrary to common belief, widespread religious practice does not necessarily correlate with societal goodness or decreased crime rates.
Critique of religion's history of violence, intolerance, and human rights abuses, contrasting the ideal of love with the reality of religious conflicts.
Ancient civilizations created gods and myths to explain natural phenomena and alleviate fear of the unknown.
Delving into human origins and the development of religious beliefs, highlighting ancient peoples' attempts to explain natural phenomena and the emergence of diverse mythologies.
Humans have historically invented gods and myths to address existential questions and alleviate fears of the unknown.
Emphasis on presenting verifiable facts to challenge religious beliefs and encourage critical thinking, advocating for individual exploration and discernment.
Despite advancements in technology and knowledge, religious beliefs have persisted, often resisting logical inquiry and scientific advancement.
The video urges reevaluation of religious beliefs, pointing out historical atrocities and calling for a focus on factual truth rather than ancient myths.
Exploring the historical roots of Christianity within the broader context of Semitic religions, tracing religious lineage from ancient Egypt to modern faiths.
Ancient Egyptian celebrations like the Arca Noah marked the arrival of life-giving floods, symbolizing rebirth.
Discussion on the significance of the annual Nile flood in ancient Egyptian culture, linking it to themes of chaos, renewal, and rebirth, drawing parallels to Christian baptism.
Pharaoh Akhenaten initiated the shift in Egyptian religion towards monotheism, worshipping one god named Amen-Ra.
The symbolism of Jesus as the "chief cornerstone" relates to the capstone of a pyramid, evident on the US dollar bill.
The Great Pyramid's location in Egypt aligns with biblical references to an altar in the midst of the land.
The concept of a "Lamb of God" predates Christianity and is found in various ancient religions, including Buddhism.
Parallels are drawn between Horus and Jesus, including their adversaries (Set and Satan) and various life events.
There are similarities between Jesus and other historical figures who were purportedly born of virgins, performed miracles, and faced similar fates.
The connection between the 12 helpers of the son of god in Egypt and the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ stems from the division of the zodiac into twelve parts.
References to astrology in ancient texts like Job point to a deep astrological understanding, challenging modern dismissals of astrology.
The concept of the end times in Christianity aligns with the transition from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius, symbolized by the man with a water pitcher.
Various scriptures in the Bible refer to different ages, suggesting a cyclical view of time and indicating the transition between astrological ages.
Ancient beliefs regarding the sun's movements, such as its annual journey through the zodiac, influenced religious symbolism, including the concept of the sun as a source of everlasting life.
The cross with a circle, common in church symbolism, represents the sun on the zodiac, not a human figure, highlighting the influence of astrological symbolism on Christianity.
The significance of the numbers 30 and 33 in Jesus's ministry aligns with the astrological understanding of the sun's movement through the zodiac.
Ancient cultures associated the sun's movements with the zodiac signs, with the story of Jesus's birth and resurrection linked symbolically to the zodiac's transition from Virgo to Leo.
Many religious figures, including Jesus, are interpreted as personifications of the sun in ancient mythology, suggesting a common motif across various cultures and religions.
The exploration of astrology and ancient texts challenges traditional religious views and underscores the importance of intellectual curiosity and critical thinking.
The connection between the 12 helpers of the son of god in Egypt and the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ stems from the division of the zodiac into twelve parts.
References to astrology in ancient texts like Job point to a deep astrological understanding, challenging modern dismissals of astrology.
The concept of the end times in Christianity aligns with the transition from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius, symbolized by the man with a water pitcher.
Various scriptures in the Bible refer to different ages, suggesting a cyclical view of time and indicating the transition between astrological ages.
Ancient beliefs regarding the sun's movements, such as its annual journey through the zodiac, influenced religious symbolism, including the concept of the sun as a source of everlasting life.
The cross with a circle, common in church symbolism, represents the sun on the zodiac, not a human figure, highlighting the influence of astrological symbolism on Christianity.
The significance of the numbers 30 and 33 in Jesus's ministry aligns with the astrological understanding of the sun's movement through the zodiac.
Ancient cultures associated the sun's movements with the zodiac signs, with the story of Jesus's birth and resurrection linked symbolically to the zodiac's transition from Virgo to Leo.
Many religious figures, including Jesus, are interpreted as personifications of the sun in ancient mythology, suggesting a common motif across various cultures and religions.
The exploration of astrology and ancient texts challenges traditional religious views and underscores the importance of intellectual curiosity and critical thinking.
"Manna from heaven" in the Bible possibly refers to mushrooms, with many ancient Semitic fertility cults consuming magic mushrooms in their rituals.
The star of David is linked to the star of Saturn, highlighting the connection between Hebrew worship on Saturday (Saturn's day) and Christian worship on Sunday (God's son, the light of the world).
Controversy surrounding the Dead Sea Scrolls centers on the control over access to them, potentially challenging the authenticity of Judaism and Christianity.
The adventures of Sampson are equated to the adventures of Hercules, depicting a solar myth where Sampson's strength lies in his hair, symbolizing the sun's rays.
The blowing of the ram's horn by ancient Hebrews signifies the celebration of God's son, the Messiah, entering his kingdom in the age of Aries.
Jerome, a Roman scholar in the 4th century, compiled church teachings into the Vulgate, translating Greek and Arabic texts into Latin, potentially leading to truth distortion.
The worship of the golden calf by the Hebrews symbolizes the worship of the sun, representing God's son in the zodiac constellation of Taurus.
In the early 1600s, around 300 scholars at Oxford University created the King James Version of the Bible, translated from the Vulgate Bible (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnlPCg4pVxY), followed by the Catholic Douay Version, with notable differences in interpretation.
Language has undergone significant changes from 1946 to the present, impacting communication and comprehension, raising questions about understanding ancient texts and spirituality.
Interpretive differences arise, like changing "children" to "cousins" in the Catholic version, showcasing distortions and degeneration from the original texts.
Semantic shifts in language, evident since 1611, alter interpretations of biblical phrases like "putting on the armor of Christ," reflecting changes in societal values and language use.
Understanding ancient texts' contexts and linguistic evolution is crucial for interpreting spiritual blueprints, acknowledging the challenges of linguistic changes over millennia.
The speaker emphasizes caution in considering ancient texts as the blueprint for spiritual life due to linguistic and contextual changes over time, urging critical thinking and awareness.
Involvement in controversial topics like spirituality and the dissemination of knowledge is driven by the belief in the importance of sharing comprehensive information to improve spiritual quality globally.
Jordan Maxwell discusses his involvement in controversial topics like spiritual interpretation, driven by the need to explore the fullness of stories and improve global spirituality, especially amid changing times.
High-quality spirituality is seen as essential for high-quality physical existence, with the speaker highlighting the need for moral elevation to address global issues, particularly in the context of changing political landscapes like in the Soviet Union.
Maxwell emphasizes the importance of focusing on spirituality over perpetuating myths and wars, advocating for providing resources like Bibles to improve the quality of spiritual life globally.

:coffee:https://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/smilies/ranger.gif

cheers,
John Kuhles (https://substack.com/@johnkuhles) 🦜🦋🌳

[Open Minded Dude]

When I saw Johns recent post I remembered I read this book below many years ago which is in the same vein of 'The Naked Truth'. The sensational title with 'conspiracy' is a bit deceiving because it is a very scholarly written (kind of) academic work with lots of footnotes, vast bibliography and literature links.

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/product/the-christ-conspiracy-the-greatest-story-ever-sold-revised-edition/

From there:

"The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold – Revised Edition

Description

The 2020 Revised Edition of Christ Conspiracy includes a new Preface by Acharya, an Editorial Preface by Dr. Robert M. Price, an Appendix by Dr. Christian Lindtner and another by Robert Tulip. Plus, Memorial commentary from Ken Humphreys, Kristyn Whitaker Hood of Mythicist Milwaukee, David Bruce MDiv and Robert Tulip. Also includes an Afterword by N.W. Barker. There’s good reason why this book is still popular after 20 years.

Contrary to popular belief, there was no single man at the genesis of Christianity but rather many characters rolled into one. The majority of these characters were personifications of the ubiquitous solar myth as reflected in the stories of such popular deities as Mithra, Hercules, Dionysus, and numerous others borrowed from Roman mythology and beyond. The story of Jesus as portrayed in the Gospels resembles those of the earlier savior-gods Krishna and Horus. These redeemer tales are similar not because they reflect the actual exploits of a variety of men who did and said similar things but because they represent the same ancient core of knowledge that revolved around the celestial bodies and natural forces called Astrotheology.

In this highly controversial and explosive book, archaeologist, linguist, and mythologist Acharya S/D.M. Murdock marshals an enormous amount of startling evidence to demonstrate that Christianity and the story of Jesus Christ were created by members of various secret societies, mystery schools and religions to unify the Roman Empire under one state religion. Through such fabrication, this multinational cabal drew on a multitude of myths and rituals that existed long before Christian era, reworking them over centuries into the story and religion passed down today.

Chapters in The Christ Conspiracy 20th-year anniversary revised edition include:

Editorial Preface by Dr. Robert M. Price
Preface
Introduction
The Quest for Jesus Christ
The Holy Forgery Mill
Biblical Sources
Non-Biblical Sources
Further Evidence of a Fraud
Physical Evidence
The Myth of Hebrew Monotheism
The Characters
Astrology and the Bible
The Son of God is the Sun of God
The Disciples are the Signs of the Zodiac
The Gospel Story
Other Elements and Symbols of the Christian Myth
The Patriarchs and Saints are the Gods of Other Cultures
The Meaning of Revelation
Essenes, Zealots and Zadokites
Alexandria: Crucible of Christianity
Enter Rome
The Making of a Myth
Conclusion
Bibliography
Index
Appendix by Dr. Christian Lindtner
Appendix by Robert Tulip
In Memoriam: Acharya S
Afterword by N.W. Barker

This book contains a table of contents, bibliography and index, and includes over 1,845 citations and 15 illustrations. Primary sources discussed include the Bible, Dead Sea Scrolls, Talmud, Book of Enoch, Gospel of the Hebrews, Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of the Infancy, Epistle of Barnabas and Shepherd of Hermas, as well as Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus, Suetonius, Justin Martyr, Marcion, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Augustine, Eusebius, Porphyry, Celsus, et al.

“I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations.”
– Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D’s

“Your scholarship is relentless! …the research conducted by D.M. Murdock concerning the myth of Jesus Christ is certainly both valuable and worthy of consideration.”
– Dr. Ken Feder, Professor of Archaeology"

[Ernie Nemeth]

The difference between Christianity and Spirituality is the same as between any religion and spirituality.

Religion is a set of predetermined and proscribed precepts that must be and is the unquestioned credo of all its members.
Religion is dogma.

Spirituality is the recognition of the supernatural by personal agency.


I like to see it as religion is a photograph, spirituality is a painting.
In this case the photograph is an imaginary picture, a 'snapshot', of a supposed objective reality that a group shares as a belief based on the concept of faith. The photograph is frozen in time and never changes.

The painting is also imaginary but realistic in the sense that it is a subjective rendition based only on direct person experience. The painting is never complete and constantly changes.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

What does that mean? "dabbled in spirituality".

So what have I dabbled in?

- zen meditation
- astrology
- psychic readings (perhaps a couple dozen times)
- hands on healing
- distance energy healing (various forms)
- Chakra exercises
- visualization exercises
- yoga
- Astral projection

...and about a million other things I can't think of atm.[/quote]

I think I understand where you're coming from now, Mike. You're referring to spirituality as a decree, a system, some rigid list of practices. But it isn't these things. One doesn't 'dabble' in spirituality.

And I'm using a small 's' for spirituality here. It shouldn't be viewed as a noun; it does not describe a 'subject', or an 'object'. Spirituality is a state, a condition; it's a form of action, an expression of existence.

Religion on the one hand means the worship and reverence of God. It promises salvation if one adheres to a strict written code. Spirituality on the other hand is the collected wisdom obtained by one's knowledge of the greater reality, which at its basis includes:

-We are souls that have bodies, not bodies that have souls
-Our souls are eternal
-Every soul came from the One Soul which is God
-The goal is to strive for perfection (follow in steps of Christ)
-God does not judge us, we must judge ourselves
-We live many lives and they're not restricted to this planet/reality
-Spirit is all around us; 'ghosts' are people who have crossed over
-We are multidimensional, our souls have many facets
-'sin' is only a sin if we know it's a sin
-All reality is energy, all energy is vibration
-Thoughts create reality, and thus form vibration
-Karma can play out across many life times

Etc, etc... To dabble in spirituality would be to dabble in...knowledge, mindfulness, perception? I don't know what that means. Your list of spirituality 'things' is not spirituality. Spirituality is a philosophy. Chakra exercises and yoga no more describe spirituality as a pebble on a beach describes geography.

If any of this comes across as arrogant or judgmental, I apologise. There may be a reason for this, in that I hold a certain bias (or biases) against organised religion. So I declare that right now, that my conclusions and opinions are coloured by former experience. By that I mean former lives. I can speak to three such lives directly, for I hold the knowledge and the memory within me.

One
In a possibly unrecorded episode of pre-dynastic Egypt I was elder brother to the pharaoh. He was just a boy, and the chosen successor to our father. Though I was the elder I was only a half-brother; I was the product of a harem fling, and my blood was impure. Yet, I thought myself more deserving of the throne, and proceeded to meddle in my brother's rule (I was a bit of a ****). I had status as a high priest and augur of the gods. I made the offerings, I performed the rituals, I reared animals -- goats, heifers -- and cut their throats to appease those gods... Try to believe me if you can, these gods were not mythical, or imaginary; we in the priesthood communed with them directly. They flew around in the sky in big metal birds.

We thought they were God, but they were not God. They were beings from another place masquerading as Gods and playing us humans for fools. I participated in this illusion (religion), and contributed to the suffering of many.

Two
A number of years ago I was beset by a terrible nightmare. In the nightmare I witnessed the brutal execution of my best friend (in this life). I watched him burn at the stake (echoing TrumanCash on previous page). On waking I would have a panic attack. I could see in my mind's eye my best friend screaming and going up in flames. It was awful. A couple of years later, this friend I'd known for forty years, confided in me that he'd...been having a dream where he was burning alive. I do believe I went white as a sheet, because I had never shared my dream with him; too weird too horrible.

This friend is much like me. Independent, spiritual, and thoroughly rejecting of religion. To get to the bottom of this mystery he reached out to a psychic on Spirit Web (internet community in early 2000s). He found someone to give him a soul reading. He did not mention his dream or mine to this psychic. However, in this reading an important past life was revealed to him. I don't recall all the details, because he didn't share it all afterwards (such readings are highly personal), but it came to light that in a life long-ago he was a prosperous land-owner. It was England, early middle-ages. He was engaged in a bitter dispute with the church over a deed or a title for a parcel of land. He refused to give up this land even under threat of prison, because it was his land by right; he kept it, he farmed it, he owned it, and refused to recognise the church's authority. Ultimately he was imprisoned, and then tortured. My friend continued to defy them (he's still very stubborn!), refusing to give in to their demands. He did so to the very end when they burned him at the stake for some trumped up charge of heresy.

As his friend and ally the church forced me to witness this as punishment.

Believe it or don't believe it, it makes no difference to me, but me and my friend are both in agreement this was a historical event and really occurred; we possess the shared soul-memory, and the psychic reading rubber stamped it. In our current lives we were both brought up in church-going Christian families, and when we came of age we both (independently) turned our back on that church, because, I believe, subconsciously deep down we were carrying this trauma, caused by the church long ago.

Three
Lives with the pueblo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblo) in the New Mexico region (date unknown). In these lives I forged a new understanding of God, and it was not at an altar, or from a book, but from the land, the air, the rivers, mountains, and animals. I learned that the God-ness in me is the same God-ness in you, in a single blade of grass, and in all the stars in the night sky. It is everything, and everywhere. And yes, we performed 'sacred' rites and rituals, much like religion, but we lived free of ecclesiastical authority. Therefore we didn't have religion per se, we simply had knowingness -- just as the Native Americans have today. [i]That is spirituality, and it's the best answer I can give.

In summary, Religion is being told God is up there somewhere, and you must strive and strive to reach him somehow. Spirituality is to know The Great Spirit/God is within you, and the more 'God-ness' you express through you, in the form of honesty, goodness, decency, and integrity, the more advanced your soul, and closer you get to God.

[ExomatrixTV]

How I see it

(trigger warning, it may offend some people):


Christianity (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122685-Christianity-vs-Spirituality) (symbolical speaking) represents for me the smile on our faces we show to the outside world and what we want to be and strive for (especially when we think we help others).
Genuine Spirituality (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600340&viewfull=1#post1600340) are the eyes that goes along with the smile that tells/shows you if someone is in pain (or not) when smiling <<< which is not "vague" for me.

... and when I'm talking about Genuine Spirituality it is not "new age people" nor new age "groups" of any kind >>> but rather it is universal that resides in all of us (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122683-What-Does-It-Mean-To-Be-Spiritual&p=1600340&viewfull=1#post1600340).

I know that any Christian can use the: "reverse psychology trick" and claim it is the opposite ... that is why brutal self-honesty is KEY in all this not wanting to "fit in" any dogmatic conditioned programmed group behavior but being the authentic you that works from within!

Most (if not all) Christians really mean well and do not want to do harm nor exploit things, and just want to have a better world like everybody else. So do not see it as an "attack" rather a personal observation I have experienced in real life multiple times.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳
hkhkhg3Vyro
OQhOcDFbflQ
nE3UU_v9qEk
GNPLy7T5fgU

[Mike]

Hey John,

I get all that! And I hear you:thumbsup:.

Part of my point is, ultimately, this: religion is inevitable.

You used the phrase "genuine spirituality", and if we sat down and fleshed out all the things that makes one genuinely spiritual, the list would slowly grow and grow. New ideas would spawn yet more new ideas, and so on and so forth.

We'd establish what genuine spirituality is and what it isn't. Something resembling rules would emerge.

And soon you'd have some kind of foundation, or structure. Because you can't really have any kind of coherent philosophy or spiritual approach without one.

And once you begin establishing a structure, you have religion, or something resembling it.

[ExomatrixTV]

Hey John,

I get all that! And I hear you:thumbsup:.

Part of my point is, ultimately, this: religion is inevitable.

You used the phrase "genuine spirituality", and if we sat down and fleshed out all the things that makes one genuinely spiritual, the list would slowly grow and grow. New ideas would spawn yet more new ideas, and so on and so forth.

We'd establish what genuine spirituality is and what it isn't. Something resembling rules would emerge.

And soon you'd have some kind of foundation, or structure. Because you can't really have any kind of coherent philosophy or spiritual approach without one.

And once you begin establishing a structure, you have religion, or something resembling it.

Common sense does not need any religion nor kindness is not forced to be enslaved by religion nor love will be ... they are all qualities that religion want to hijack and trying to monopolize it in such a way that only control freaks have the last word!

A large part of the masses are heavily conditioned that they need "authorities" telling them how to think/feel/act/behave/be etc. etc.


This is what I call the: "slave gene".

To be obedient has its advantages especially if you have a low self-esteem ... you do not have to think for your self anymore ... you do not have to be responsible for your own quality of thinking, just obey, and you will be "appreciated" and rewarded with certain "valuable" privileges.


This form of collectivism & conformism can happen in governments, in large corporations, military AND religions ... many similarities of hierarchical mass behavior.

Abuse of power is inevitable because people can hide behind the excuse "they told me to act/think/reason like that". Any form of "group think" can be hijacked & abused.

Am fully aware that there are people who WANT to be told how to act/be/do/think/feel etc. It gives them "focus" and "less chaos" in their heads! It gives them more psychological comfort, "structure" & discipline they lack.

For all people who have a dire need for this ... know this: "everything that is organized CAN be abused/hijacked/corrupted/manipulated/weaponized!" the moment that happens, you might not want to know due to psychological reasons! ... The longer you are part of that, the less likely you want to get out! >>> Because so much of your life is build around it ("vested interests"). You might even come to the point you do not care how you got there in the first place ... And when the dehumanization of the "other side" kicks in >>> then you might realize it was never about real unconditional love (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122602-What-is-love&p=1597885&viewfull=1#post1597885) to begin with.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[ExomatrixTV]

How many people out there that do not trust themselves anymore and need assistance/guidance one way or another.

And that could have many causes:

01. traumatic experiences in the past
02. losing your father at young age
03. father that was most of the time gone
04. father that was an alcoholic and abusive
05. not having a real mother
06. not having a safe upbringing
07. depending on the wrong people for too long
08. being forced to do things in the past that still haunt you
09. having way too many setbacks in life
10. not be able to pay huge debt that limits future prospects severely
11. having (reoccurring) depressions and/or anxiety issues
12. being homeless
13. and on and on and on ...

Vulnerable people that need help often do not know how to ask for help nor how to be at the right places.

So when religion offers (conditional) help they may not mind being "exploited" as it is "nothing" in comparison with what they are at (see the 12 points examples!) ... so OFF COURSE people will request more positive uplifting vibes coming from anyone who wants to offer help! And religion may be the condition to get help! Who am I to take that away from anyone? ... So everything in life are perspectives and seeing things from multiple angles.


That is why it is not a given that everybody is on the same "wavelength" discussing religion. All depends on what people need in their lives.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[TrumanCash]

Generally speaking, I think "Christianity" has evolved into a mostly positive influence on the world today, in spite of the erroneous dogma. I say this from the perspective of one who was burned at the stake during the Inquisition, LOL! Yes, really.

After growing up with Christianity I was labeled a "blasphemer" and a "devil worshipper" for even mentioning the subject of past lives, which most modern day Christians reject.

After recovering the memories of many past lives and working with abductees/contactees who are followed from lifetime to lifetime by abducting Grays, Mantis, Reptilians and Anunnaki/Elohim, who were actually ETs in flying saucers masquerading as "gods" or as "the one God", I have a unique perspective on the Bible and Christianity from a firsthand viewpoint.

Unfortunately, the Bible has been mistranslated and misunderstood so that has led to various conflicting Christian sects. For sure, there are sociopaths and psychopaths in all religions and that is due to the machinations of the human-looking Anunnaki/Elohim establishing religions with embedded secret societies that practice secret blood-letting, blood-drinking, human sacrifice rituals behind very closed doors while presenting a benevolent facade of which most religious people are unaware.

Christians practice the innocuous mirror of these rituals with the Eucharist wherein they drink the (symbolic) blood of "Christ" (wine or grape juice) and eat a cracker symbolic of the body of Christ. This was originally practiced in Egypt in relation to the fertility "god" Osiris. When the Nile rose and fertilized the grain fields, most Egyptians made ale and made crackers representing the body of Osiris in this fertility ritual. Unbeknownst to the common Egyptians was that the dark side of this ritual was carried out secretly in the Great Pyramid by sacrificing a human being and drinking her blood.

"Christ" originally meant "anointing" and was the fertility ritual practiced in the Middle East thousands of years ago wherein a sculpture of a penis was smeared with oil. In some places a full-size statue with erect penis was mounted by a virgin female. Also, the word "Hell" was never in the Bible; it was originally "Gehenna" a place on the outskirts of Jerusalem. "Hell" was originally the Nordic Goddess of the Underworld. (So how the hell did a Nordic Goddess make it into the Bible?)

Both the Old and New Testaments are based on the machinations of the Anunnaki/Elohim presenting both a light (positive) and dark (negative) side. This was presented in the form of a video documentary "Zeitgeist" and my independent research revealed these were the false "gods" which also included "the one God" concept of a head male "father" God sitting on a throne in the clouds, etc, (e.g., Ptaah in Egypt). Ra was the Son/Sun of God (Ptaah).

If you look at the symbolism in the New Testament it most definitely parallels the Egyptian fertility "god" Osiris, which includes the Eucharist, the cross, the sun/son rising on the third day of the winter solstice (e.g., "Christmas"), good vs evil, dark vs light, sacrifice, etc, etc. In the Middle East there was a ritual that was practiced wherein an animal such as a bull or lamb was laid on a grate with a human underneath. When the animal was slain the person underneath was literally "washed in the blood of the lamb".

Personally, I like the definition of "god" in Galatians--"God is Love". And in reaching far down the time stream in my own past I discovered that, yes, spiritual Love was and is our native state. However, Jordan Maxwell indicted that the phrase was mistranslated and it was actually "God is Jove", which would indicate that "he" was one of the nefarious Anunnaki/Elohim.

Ironically, the Old Testament states: "Ye are Gods". In denial, Christians often state that well, yes, but that's "gods" with a small "g" not "God" with a capital "G" (a concept that I find rather cringe-worthy).

Nevertheless, from my viewpoint and research, this defines the difference between the religious dogma of Christianity and the positive "spiritual" state of Love, which does not function on dogma, but on a positive/benevolent state of being as an individual.

Perhaps the Jesus/Yeshua fellow really walked the Earth and perhaps he was an ET. I say this due to a video documentary that Bill Ryan posted on Avalon THE FRIENDSHIP CASE – THE EXTRAORDINARY STORY OF MASS ALIEN CONTACT (2014).

These ETs live in a constant state of spiritual Love and I highly recommend watching this video if you haven't seen it yet.


https://www.bitchute.com/video/cG30Zu7eHeLA/


Hey Truman,

I'd likely have burned during the Inquisition as well, believing in reincarnation and all. And that's only one of my crimes:) I'm trying to make an argument for Christianity, but I'm a pretty poor Christian myself.

I read all that with great interest, and finished with a depressing realization that I have quite a lot to learn. I'd like to see you and Shaberon chop it up for a few hours.

Curious: why do you think Christianity is mostly a positive influence on the world today?

In spite of all the erroneous dogma and the fact that there are all kinds of "Christians", I think that generally speaking Christians have a positive standard of morals, family-oriented, more conservative, etc. However, Christians are not perfect as the case in any religion. There are the "Chrinos" (Christian in name only), of course. There is not the radical, violent component that is present in some Muslim sects. The concepts of the Jesus/Yeshua example is more peace oriented and the emphasis on love and forgiveness is an important factor.

[Mike]

[I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.




I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

What does that mean? "dabbled in spirituality".

So what have I dabbled in?

- zen meditation
- astrology
- psychic readings (perhaps a couple dozen times)
- hands on healing
- distance energy healing (various forms)
- Chakra exercises
- visualization exercises
- yoga
- Astral projection

...and about a million other things I can't think of atm.

I think I understand where you're coming from now, Mike. You're referring to spirituality as a decree, a system, some rigid list of practices. But it isn't these things. One doesn't 'dabble' in spirituality.

And I'm using a small 's' for spirituality here. It shouldn't be viewed as a noun; it does not describe a 'subject', or an 'object'. Spirituality is a state, a condition; it's a form of action, an expression of existence.

Religion on the one hand means the worship and reverence of God. It promises salvation if one adheres to a strict written code. Spirituality on the other hand is the collected wisdom obtained by one's knowledge of the greater reality, which at its basis includes:

-We are souls that have bodies, not bodies that have souls
-Our souls are eternal
-Every soul came from the One Soul which is God
-The goal is to strive for perfection (follow in steps of Christ)
-God does not judge us, we must judge ourselves
-We live many lives and they're not restricted to this planet/reality
-Spirit is all around us; 'ghosts' are people who have crossed over
-We are multidimensional, our souls have many facets
-'sin' is only a sin if we know it's a sin
-All reality is energy, all energy is vibration
-Thoughts create reality, and thus form vibration
-Karma can play out across many life times

Etc, etc... To dabble in spirituality would be to dabble in...knowledge, mindfulness, perception? I don't know what that means. Your list of spirituality 'things' is not spirituality. Spirituality is a philosophy. Chakra exercises and yoga no more describe spirituality as a pebble on a beach describes geography.

If any of this comes across as arrogant or judgmental, I apologise. There may be a reason for this, in that I hold a certain bias (or biases) against organised religion. So I declare that right now, that my conclusions and opinions are coloured by former experience. By that I mean former lives. I can speak to three such lives directly, for I hold the knowledge and the memory within me.

One
In a possibly unrecorded episode of pre-dynastic Egypt I was elder brother to the pharaoh. He was just a boy, and the chosen successor to our father. Though I was the elder I was only a half-brother; I was the product of a harem fling, and my blood was impure. Yet, I thought myself more deserving of the throne, and proceeded to meddle in my brother's rule (I was a bit of a ****). I had status as a high priest and augur of the gods. I made the offerings, I performed the rituals, I reared animals -- goats, heifers -- and cut their throats to appease those gods... Try to believe me if you can, these gods were not mythical, or imaginary; we in the priesthood communed with them directly. They flew around in the sky in big metal birds.

We thought they were God, but they were not God. They were beings from another place masquerading as Gods and playing us humans for fools. I participated in this illusion (religion), and contributed to the suffering of many.

Two
A number of years ago I was beset by a terrible nightmare. In the nightmare I witnessed the brutal execution of my best friend (in this life). I watched him burn at the stake (echoing TrumanCash on previous page). On waking I would have a panic attack. I could see in my mind's eye my best friend screaming and going up in flames. It was awful. A couple of years later, this friend I'd known for forty years, confided in me that he'd...been having a dream where he was burning alive. I do believe I went white as a sheet, because I had never shared my dream with him; too weird too horrible.

This friend is much like me. Independent, spiritual, and thoroughly rejecting of religion. To get to the bottom of this mystery he reached out to a psychic on Spirit Web (internet community in early 2000s). He found someone to give him a soul reading. He did not mention his dream or mine to this psychic. However, in this reading an important past life was revealed to him. I don't recall all the details, because he didn't share it all afterwards (such readings are highly personal), but it came to light that in a life long-ago he was a prosperous land-owner. It was England, early middle-ages. He was engaged in a bitter dispute with the church over a deed or a title for a parcel of land. He refused to give up this land even under threat of prison, because it was his land by right; he kept it, he farmed it, he owned it, and refused to recognise the church's authority. Ultimately he was imprisoned, and then tortured. My friend continued to defy them (he's still very stubborn!), refusing to give in to their demands. He did so to the very end when they burned him at the stake for some trumped up charge of heresy.

As his friend and ally the church forced me to witness this as punishment.

Believe it or don't believe it, it makes no difference to me, but me and my friend are both in agreement this was a historical event and really occurred; we possess the shared soul-memory, and the psychic reading rubber stamped it. In our current lives we were both brought up in church-going Christian families, and when we came of age we both (independently) turned our back on that church, because, I believe, subconsciously deep down we were carrying this trauma, caused by the church long ago.

Three
Lives with the pueblo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblo) in the New Mexico region (date unknown). In these lives I forged a new understanding of God, and it was not at an altar, or from a book, but from the land, the air, the rivers, mountains, and animals. I learned that the God-ness in me is the same God-ness in you, in a single blade of grass, and in all the stars in the night sky. It is everything, and everywhere. And yes, we performed 'sacred' rites and rituals, much like religion, but we lived free of ecclesiastical authority. Therefore we didn't have religion per se, we simply had knowingness -- just as the Native Americans have today. That is spirituality, and it's the best answer I can give.

In summary, Religion is being told God is up there somewhere, and you must strive and strive to reach him somehow. Spirituality is to know The Great Spirit/God is within you, and the more 'God-ness' you express through you, in the form of honesty, goodness, decency, and integrity, the more advanced your soul, and closer you get to God.


Hey Mark, thanks for sharing all that fascinating info! I read it with great interest, particularly the past life details. I do believe what you said. I take that quite seriously. As I've said here already, I also believe in reincarnation. I'm not a proper Christian by any stretch, and likely never will be. But it might be said that I "feel the call of the holy spirit" these days, and it's got my gears going a little.

I don't view Christianity just as a rigid list of practices, though that is certainly part of it. There's 2 elements to religious phenomena - there's the spiritual element and the dogmatic element. And both are necessary. Ulli referenced this a little.

The spiritual element is less constrained by belief and dogma and the rest. It's more informed by emotion, instinct (the holy spirit), aesthetic experience, and so forth. And I'd include several of the descriptions you provided above in your list as well. We're not totally at cross purposes here; there is definitely some overlap.

In fact I think I pretty much agree with all of it, and it's the best description I've heard of spirituality so far.

The dogma, essentially, provides the structure. Dogma basically means agreement, and there has to be some kind of mutually agreed upon underlying ethos for any kind of spiritual approach to be coherent and useful. In other words, it has to have distinctions. Without clear distinctions, it flirts with meaninglessness.

Religion often turns people's stomachs because they feel it's too ordered, too dogmatic. And perhaps they're right. I'm exploring how I feel about all this right here and now, in this thread, and remain conflicted. But you can't get away with zero dogma, I know that much. Dogma is order.

Spirituality without the order/dogma becomes something like a conceptual amoeba...to me anyway! Maybe some people can live with that sort of fluidity, but I can't. I don't think most people can. If the world was full of Mark's I'd feel pretty relaxed and confident; with or without a distinct spiritual framework I trust you to act in good faith. But generally speaking, I don't trust humanity without the framework of religion.

There's some balance between order and fluidity I'm grappling with here. And it's giving me a f'ing headache:)

I now totally understand why you feel the way you do. It's a deeply sensitive topic, even without the past life experiences. You know I have great respect for your mind, but we're bound to crash into each other from time to time on this one. All good!

[Matthew]

You are accountable to Jesus for every word you say, but your works will not set you free. ONLY the blood of Christ and your faith and that's it.

The law started with 10 laws, then that expanded to 613, then Jesus came and chaged the covenant. Be a better person but as a conviction from the Holy Spirit, not pursuit of laws. The law has failed every human except Jesus, it doesn't work. I'll try and elaborate better later

In terms of the Bible here are some quotes that show the character of what I'm trying to saypreach:


Galatians 3:10 ESV
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

Romans 6:14 ESV
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Because we can't do it. God's standard is too high.


James 2:10 ESV
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

And all of 1 John 4:7 onwards
God Is Love
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
...
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14



We fail but God's love is greater than that. Instead of the sinners going to hell it's just the prince of this world. It's often overlooked in the new testament:


John 16:11
concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

So not only are we spared by our faith we're given the Holy Spirit. The kindest King of Kings. So it might sound contradictory but we are despicable sinners, but that's only what the prince of this world cares about. God knows but is well above that with His divine love and forgiveness, and demonstrates it by adopting us as his children in spectacular fashion public across all space and time in all dimensions with the crucifixion. Far out.

This is my summary of Christianity expressed in terms of the Bible, of why the law is a curse, and we should live by the Holy Spirit. If you're not sure ask God from the secret place, although we are all already on a constant open call to God.

[norman]

@DonnieDarkened has raised the biggest contention of our time with David Icke.

David Icke was the much more relaxed and experienced speaker causing what I heard as a very important point ( but tanged up a bit too much in questionable dogma) by Donnie Darkened to get bypassed and lost.

Whoever titled this video clip didn't help either.

w82IMNfr2hQ


I've just listened to a very good interview with @DonnieDarkened where he gets his points made much more clearly.

Canary Cry Radio - Trump the CHRIST Rising - @DonnieDarkened - CCR 175 (https://podbay.fm/p/canary-cry-radio/e/1708685979)


The rise of progressivism with a radical leftist agenda has been the target of the conservative right wing for over a decade led by the United States. But as conservative populism reaches critical mass worldwide, the deceptions woven within what we’ve labelled here as the Alt Media Industrial Complex, requires much discernment, especially Christ centred discernment.

[psikeyhackr]

If God created the universe then didn't he have to know Einsteinian physics long before Einstein figured it out?

If you search the Bible for 'transla' you will find variations of the word 'translate' and three of them are associated with an Enoch character.

The European Bible says strange things about Enoch. Enoch did not die. Enoch was no longer here for God took him. Enoch was "translated" by God.

How do you Translate a human being?

What word was used in the original language?

Suppose God "translated" Enoch through space and time via Einsteinian physics and set him down on Earth 2000 years later and he told everyone that his name was Melchizedek?

What does the Bible say about Mel? No Mother?

Enoch would have been an adult popping in through a space-time transition. No need for a mother. He would not have a geneology. Not from any people who had lived through normal space-time for previous centuries.

Maybe God is not really mysterious, but just sneaky!