Dogs' Health and Wellness

[Bill Ryan]

Dear Friends, this new thread (in this new section!) was quite a long time coming, and in retrospect we should maybe have created it a long time ago. Pam's post below was in response to mine here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?121734-Mara-returns-to-the-Mountains&p=1600406&viewfull=1#post1600406), in which I'd shared that my own dog Mara was quickly recovering from a kidney infection sustained when she got hopelessly stuck in some deep black lake mud where she'd never ventured before. :)

I've left the 13 posts below unedited, as some of the comments were in full agreement about the value of a new section like this.

:thumbsup:

[Pam]

I am so relieved that she is ok. That is the cardinal sign that I have learned with dogs, probably with any animals, but definitely with dogs, if their appetite goes and they quit eating there is a reason for that. Sometimes pups with thick fur like Mara can get cuts and punctures and they are really hard to see, even tiny tears in the paw pads for bacteria to, they can be very hard to and find even when looking for them. She might have ingested some of that mud and as you said, she was exposed to some tough bacteria, anyway, the most important thing is Miss Mara is better.

I love every little adventure and thanks for the book recommendation!

[Bill Ryan]

That is the cardinal sign that I have learned with dogs, probably with any animals, but definitely with dogs, if their appetite goes and they quit eating there is a reason for that. I'm not an experienced dog owner, not at all. Mara is the one and only dog I've ever had.

So I learn things from the vet all the time. When I brought her in, he immediately said:
Here, feel her EARS.
I did, and they were hot. He explained that when a dog's ears are hot, then there's a fever. (Who knew? Not me. :):flower:)

[pyrangello]

Usually if there nose is dry something is going on too bill. I use to shave all my labs 3 times a year, even in the winter time, afterwards the pups would go outside and roll in the snow , the vet always told me its their paws, ears and nose that will tell you if there cold. There are 2 things that i have learned with older dogs, I keep amoxicillin at home, if there is any infection or there teeth are getting bad and their breathe smells bad I will give them a half a pill in their food for a few days, if you see your dog chewing on 1 side of their mouth thats another sign.

And finally with older dogs ,This drug has helped my dogs so much as they got to the end of their life or senior years, ( Carprofen ) is indicated for the relief of pain and inflammation associated with osteoarthritis and for the control of postoperative pain associated with soft tissue and orthopedic surgeries in dogs.

My last lab could not even stand unless she was talking this daily, One time I ran out of the pills and she just collapsed on the floor, I put a blanket on her and went and went to my buddies to get some CARPROFEN, I came back and put a capsule in a piece of cheese and had her swallow it, then went to bed, My lab got up by herself in 1 1/2 hours and came into the bedroom to lay down. As Mara gets older this supplement really gives your dog relief from arthritis and pain . When I first started giving it to my last lab, she actually starting running again in short spurts .

[BMJ]

Usually if there nose is dry something is going on too bill. I use to shave all my labs 3 times a year, even in the winter time, afterwards the pups would go outside and roll in the snow , the vet always told me its their paws, ears and nose that will tell you if there cold. There are 2 things that i have learned with older dogs, I keep amoxicillin at home, if there is any infection or there teeth are getting bad and their breathe smells bad I will give them a half a pill in their food for a few days, if you see your dog chewing on 1 side of their mouth thats another sign.

And finally with older dogs ,This drug has helped my dogs so much as they got to the end of their life or senior years, ( Carprofen ) is indicated for the relief of pain and inflammation associated with osteoarthritis and for the control of postoperative pain associated with soft tissue and orthopedic surgeries in dogs.

My last lab could not even stand unless she was talking this daily, One time I ran out of the pills and she just collapsed on the floor, I put a blanket on her and went and went to my buddies to get some CARPROFEN, I came back and put a capsule in a piece of cheese and had her swallow it, then went to bed, My lab got up by herself in 1 1/2 hours and came into the bedroom to lay down. As Mara gets older this supplement really gives your dog relief from arthritis and pain . When I first started giving it to my last lab, she actually starting running again in short spurts .

Not directly on this topic but another great product is C60, I give our little girl C60 she is a maltese shih tzu cross and fifteen years old, I started giving it to her when she was about 10 or 12 years old, so being 6 kilograms I give her 1 millilitres a day, and it reversed her turkey neck, cleared her cataract and she had a common heart issue starting to develop, on her annual checkup our vet said the heart issue had gone away and she had never seen this before in a dog.

Now at fifteen the cataracts are back and her hearing is mostly gone but she is still going on her daily walks and comes home excited and then proceeds to run around the house like crazy for a good 5 minutes.

Another great product to rebuild the cartilage in the joints is 4CYTE, I just squirt 0.5ml straight into her mouth during dinner because the little critter will eat around the gel if I put it straight into her food. For example: 4CYTE Epiitalis Forte Gel for Dogs

https://petchemist.com.au/products/4cyte-epiitalis-forte-gel-for-dogs.html?msclkid=ff711e4c213b1bf64c0d7b80bc107927&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=OMG%20%7C%20Smart%20Shopping&utm_term=4583382963751784&utm_content=Ad%20group%20%231

[Pam]

Usually if there nose is dry something is going on too bill. I use to shave all my labs 3 times a year, even in the winter time, afterwards the pups would go outside and roll in the snow , the vet always told me its their paws, ears and nose that will tell you if there cold. There are 2 things that i have learned with older dogs, I keep amoxicillin at home, if there is any infection or there teeth are getting bad and their breathe smells bad I will give them a half a pill in their food for a few days, if you see your dog chewing on 1 side of their mouth thats another sign.

And finally with older dogs ,This drug has helped my dogs so much as they got to the end of their life or senior years, ( Carprofen ) is indicated for the relief of pain and inflammation associated with osteoarthritis and for the control of postoperative pain associated with soft tissue and orthopedic surgeries in dogs.

My last lab could not even stand unless she was talking this daily, One time I ran out of the pills and she just collapsed on the floor, I put a blanket on her and went and went to my buddies to get some CARPROFEN, I came back and put a capsule in a piece of cheese and had her swallow it, then went to bed, My lab got up by herself in 1 1/2 hours and came into the bedroom to lay down. As Mara gets older this supplement really gives your dog relief from arthritis and pain . When I first started giving it to my last lab, she actually starting running again in short spurts .

I don't want to take the thread too far off Mara, but pyrangello, you reminded me... I gave one of my last two beloved dogs CBD oil for several years with incredible results. I actually used it a few times when I injured myself and it is effective. I think it is a real asset with chronic arthritic pain in particular that some dogs have.

[Bill Ryan]

Not directly on this topic but another great product is C60, I give our little girl C60 she is a maltese shih tzu cross and fifteen years old, I started giving it to her when she was about 10 or 12 years old, so being 6 kilograms I give her 1 millilitres a day, and it reversed her turkey neck, cleared her cataract and she had a common heart issue starting to develop, on her annual checkup our vet said the heart issue had gone away and she had never seen this before in a dog. Wow. I give Mara C60 as well, but just 2ml for her weight of 25kg. 1ml for your 6kg Maltese Shih Tzu cross seems like a lot — proportionally compared to the recommended 3-5ml for a 70kg human!

Should I be giving her more? :ROFL:

(PS. We returned to the mountains today, just taking it slow and easy. Mara was fantastically happy, and completely back to normal.)
:happy dog:

[Alan]

I don't want to take the thread too far off Mara, but pyrangello, you reminded me... I gave one of my last two beloved dogs CBD oil for several years with incredible results. I actually used it a few times when I injured myself and it is effective. I think it is a real asset with chronic arthritic pain in particular that some dogs have.

I have a 15yo Lab with arthritis -- would you mind sharing what brand + dosage of CBD that worked for your dog?

[BMJ]

Not directly on this topic but another great product is C60, I give our little girl C60 she is a maltese shih tzu cross and fifteen years old, I started giving it to her when she was about 10 or 12 years old, so being 6 kilograms I give her 1 millilitres a day, and it reversed her turkey neck, cleared her cataract and she had a common heart issue starting to develop, on her annual checkup our vet said the heart issue had gone away and she had never seen this before in a dog. Wow. I give Mara C60 as well, but just 2ml for her weight of 25kg. 1ml for your 6kg Maltese Shih Tzu cross seems like a lot — proportionally compared to the recommended 3-5ml for a 70kg human!

Should I be giving her more? :ROFL:

(PS. We returned to the mountains today, just taking it slow and easy. Mara was fantastically happy, and completely back to normal.)
:happy dog:

I know it may seem like overkill, but C60 has no side effects that I know of so rounding it up and giving her a little extra maybe more beneficial. Hey when you love your pup you do everything you can to keep them well and happy.

[pyrangello]

Had to put to sleep 6 of my pups in 3 .5 years, it was pretty brutal but I've tried many things to help and even I appreciate the other recommendations everyone else is giving. From adding rice and scrambled eggs to our senior dogs diets to many other additives. 2 of our labs were 16 years old and just were worn out and in pain, 1 lab setter mix got septis at 16 years old and it was getting ready to take over her body, the day I had her put to sleep she was laying on the grass in front of the vets in the sun, shiny black coat , wagging her tail. When I picked her up though she couldn't sit on her rear end. She wagged her tail with her last breathe. The vet later told me i did the right thing by not waiting, he could smell the infection after she passed.

Then there was gringo the chiuawa we inherited from my relative that passed. Champion little guy, got him at 14, he had heart issues, diabetes, then he was going blind, he made it to 18 but one day started walking in circles, I knew it was time. Then another brown lab we had, she got lung cancer at 12 years old. No idea how, the day she jumped off the chair and passed out from not getting air , I had her put to sleep. The vet said to me he only gave her 25 percent of the drug and her organs were so taxed she was gone. Her tounge was started to turn purple. If you looked at her She was the picture of a completely healthy pup even til the day she went to sleep. That day sucked big time.

Then we inherited a pug named Sasha, she was a runner, 3 people adopted her and returned her to the animal shelter,couldn't keep her from running, had her 12 years then she started having seizures, got them under control until one night starting at midnight every 15 minutes for 5 hours she had a seizure, bad ones too. We had liquid antisiezure meds to shove up her nose, pills to put in her butt, nothing worked. That was a night i,'ll never forget. I had her put to sleep that morning.god bless her. What a great pup she was.

And finally another dog Bing who was a Beagle pug. He was great for the 1st year, happy, loved to play, etc. Etc. Then he started having seizures, we ended up with him being on phenbarbitol but he turned into a zombie so we started lowering his dose and we thought we had it and then he started back seizing again. Took him to e.r. for pups an hour away, cost 1000.00 for the night, they had him on 3 antisiezure meds when I brought him home. In 1 hour of picking him up he started having another seizure. He was only 1.5 years old. The local vet wanted me to take him to Detroit to a neurologist. That would have been another 2 hour ride watching him have seizures and with him only being just over a year old and on 3 meds already I just removed myself from this emotionally and made the decision to have him put to sleep. He was way too young to have all these problems, it just wasn't his time.

From changing dog foods, to a better balanced diet, to good drinking water, we have an artesian well. To not giving your pups colored dyed anything.even trying colloidal silver. Benadryl, bag balm , there's lost of ways to care for your pups. I asked the vet before all this started , how do you know it's time, when do you make the call. Toughest decision ever to make, they can't make it, these animals all want to please you, way their tail, unconditional love. All I can say is when they stop wagging their tail and it gets to be a struggle to get up and just walk, that's them telling you the pain they are in supersedes hanging around anymore.

[Bill Ryan]

Dear Friends, it's crystal clear that we need a new section all about caring for pets who may have health issues (cats, dogs, horses, donkeys, and much much more). We can create that straight away, and maybe move a few posts there — but can anyone suggest a neat and concise section title?

~~~

I give Mara regular supplements, seeing as she's 11 years old and (astonishingly!) has replacement platinum tendons in both her hind legs. C60, fish oil, borax, collagen, and glucosamine/ chondroitin/ MSM, all in scaled-down doggie doses. And she eats nothing but 100% protein and fat. (Mainly chicken pieces, but also occasional minced beef, eggs and raw milk.)

I've also ordered some pet-formulated hyaluronic acid (https://hyalogicanimalhealth.com/), but I've not yet received that. Her regime all seems to be working 100% perfectly for her stamina and athleticism, I have to say. (The recent problem I described was just a kidney infection caused by getting stuck in the deep black mud of a large mountain lake. :))

[Pam]

I don't want to take the thread too far off Mara, but pyrangello, you reminded me... I gave one of my last two beloved dogs CBD oil for several years with incredible results. I actually used it a few times when I injured myself and it is effective. I think it is a real asset with chronic arthritic pain in particular that some dogs have.

I have a 15yo Lab with arthritis -- would you mind sharing what brand + dosage of CBD that worked for your dog?

Alan, I used Holistapet. They have always had great quality product. You can start out with a low dose and work up if needed. I would actually just put it in his "cheek" inside his mouth directly from the stopper. You can put the drops on a bit of food as well. I always bought when they would have a 2 for 1 sale. I was absolutely amazed at how it helped my bed buddy. It gave my Bodhi, 3 extra years of far greater mobility and and less pain.

They have suggestion for dosing on the website.

[Pam]

I don't want to take the thread too far off Mara, but pyrangello, you reminded me... I gave one of my last two beloved dogs CBD oil for several years with incredible results. I actually used it a few times when I injured myself and it is effective. I think it is a real asset with chronic arthritic pain in particular that some dogs have.

I have a 15yo Lab with arthritis -- would you mind sharing what brand + dosage of CBD that worked for your dog?

Alan, I used Holistapet. They have always had great quality product. You can start out with a low dose and work up if needed. I would actually just put it in his "cheek" inside his mouth directly from the stopper. You can put the drops on a bit of food as well. I always bought when they would have a 2 for 1 sale. I was absolutely amazed at how it helped my bed buddy. It gave my Bodhi, 3 extra years of far greater mobility and and less pain.

They have suggestion for dosing on the website.

I promise not to go off topic again, but I did want to respond to Alan. I totally, agree with the fish oil or other forms of healthy fat that Bill is giving, along with the other supplements. Just like us humans, the best medicine for animals is food and nutritional substances if the animal needs additional care. I don't think Mara could get any better care. Amazing for a first time dog owner, you have done so much for her.

I have to laugh at how dogs universally seem to find a mud puddle to roll in if there is one available, even if they can't see them, she probably smells the water and mud.

[BMJ]

the best medicine for animals is food and nutritional substances if the animal needs additional care. I don't think Mara could get any better care. Amazing for a first time dog owner, you have done so much for her.

Great idea Bill, I don't have any suggestion for a title but we seem to be hijacking this thread so it would be a great idea to move these posts out of this beautiful thread. (I will say i am a sucker for dogs and I have been secretly downloading some of the videos and pictures and have my own Bill & Mara folder for keep sake).

Regarding food. I make her dinner every few days which is basically a risotto which is made up of a pinch of himalayan rock salt, scoop of washed basmati rice, butter pumpkin (150gm) one chicken breast (350gm) and water to cover the lot and on the stove for about 20minutes allow it to reduce and stir every few minutes especially towards the end when the butter pumpkin starts to release it flavours. When the risotto starts to stick to the bottom of the pot its done. Once it cools down I add a small tin of pink salmon and two boiled eggs.

[Bill Ryan]

An interesting update to report. Mara, my dog, is now 12 (actually, nearer 13 than 12!), and a couple of months ago I woke up one morning to find her suddenly seemingly unhappy and moving around really quite slowly. I decided to watch her carefully before rushing her off to the vet, and sure enough, the next day she was all fine again. So I thought nothing of it.

Then, three weeks ago, the same thing happened again, all out of the blue. So this time, I did take her to the vet.

He diagnosed a little arthritis, something maybe not unexpected in a 12 year old mountain dog who's probably hiked some 5,000 rough-ground miles in her long life. So he gave her an injection of Librela (https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/health/librela-for-dogs/), containing monoclonal antibodies which block nerve signals of arthritic pain or discomfort being relayed to the brain. It's a new treatment, introduced in the US in October 2023, in Europe a little earlier.

I was far from convinced that arthritis really was the problem, as the two times that Mara had suddenly seemed slow and unhappy in the morning it just happened all of a sudden, not gradually as one might expect. But I agreed to the injection, though it was expensive. (At least for me! It was $90, with recommended monthly follow-ups. A search on the net told me it could sometimes be quite a bit more in the US.)

But regardless of what the problem actually was, it's had the most dramatic effect. :muscle:

It's like she's a whole couple of years younger, bouncing with activity, totally happy, and eating a LOT more as she's using much more energy. For a dog that might be 75 or even 80 years old in human terms, it's quite something.

What I'm hoping is that (somehow!) I'll NOT have to repeat the expensive injections every month. We're 3 weeks in, with no sign at all of anything wearing off. (In fact, her energy seems to be increasing day by day.)
:happy dog:
I promise to update this post if I seem to learn anything more. :)

[grapevine]

You havent had the best of summers this year either, so the lack of sunshine (vitamin d3) might be a contributory factor Bill - and for you too.

[seekingtruth]

Great thread topic. I have owned dogs all my life, and if I can tell you the absolute most important thing that will ensure an excellent standard of health in your animals is down to what you feed them.

In short, stay far away from anything made in a factory.

You must feed them a raw natural diet made up of raw, meaty bones, organ meats and a small amount of vegetables. Anything pre-processed is forbidden, including all pre-made dog foods. Even those recommended by vets.

The difference in dogs fed raw meaty bones vs those on kibble and tinned dog food is incredible. If you want a sluggish, overweight dog with foul breath and greasy coat, stick to processed dog foods. But if you prefer to have a lithe, athletic animal with a gleaming coat, white teeth and no odors, raw meaty bones are the way to go.

Having done both sides of the coin, I can tell you I will never go back to processed foods again. Same for me too! Except I cook my food haha.

Supplements and other additions come after this step.

If you are nervous or unsure about giving your dog a raw piece of meat with a bone in it (maybe you heard stories about splinters or similar) just test it out with something small. Just watch the reaction of your dog when they get "real" food. The first time we did this with a 12 week old puppy that had been raised on kibble, we gave him a rabbit leg. He went absolutely mental, his tail would not stop wagging. He demolished it and we never looked back.

You can check out the books at this site for more info. (https://rawmeatybones.com/book-ww.php) - if there is a way to share pdfs here I have a copy of Works Wonders I can share.

[seekingtruth]

Then, three weeks ago, the same thing happened again, all out of the blue. So this time, I did take her to the vet.

He diagnosed a little arthritis, something maybe not unexpected in a 12 year old mountain dog who's probably hiked some 5,000 rough-ground miles in her long life. So he gave her an injection of Librela, containing monoclonal antibodies which block nerve signals of arthritic pain or discomfort being relayed to the brain. It's a new treatment, introduced in the US in October 2023, in Europe a little earlier.


Hi Bill. Arthritis in dogs is awful to watch, I can relate. We had a golden retriever who suffered terribly with it in his later years.

The vets at the time only had steroid injections to offer, which was a short term solution at best as they are hard on the liver and kidneys etc.

Monoclonal antibodies were definitely not a thing back then, although I am delighted to hear of your experiences with them.

But speaking of expensive injections I can offer you another alternative.

Don't laugh, but I am talking about acupuncture for dogs. When we first were told about it, we almost dismissed it, out of stupid prejudice ( I wasn't awake or aware back then). However, we decided to try it as there were no negative side effects as with the steroid injections, and I am so glad we did.

Basically the acupuncture sessions had exactly the same effect as the steroid injections. Major pain relief and return of mobility, for a period of about 6 weeks. The joy you see when they realise they can run around again is just incredible. And all without any of the toxicity of drugs.

Yes it is still an expense, but to my mind was a better solution to drugs.

Hope it helps.

[Bill Ryan]

acupuncture for dogsYes! :) I've heard of that, though I have no idea if it might be available in Ecuador. (Possibly, as there are a LOT of alternative healthcare practitioners here)

Here's one website: (there are several others)

https://www.happydogbaltimore.com/happy-dog-blog/2023/10/26/your-dogs-meridian-lines-and-qi-how-animal-acupuncture-works

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b635679ee17591ac752ba2b/1698335277165-NJ1Z6UYLZ7U56UU5DLEF/IMG_5224.jpg



I have owned dogs all my life, and if I can tell you the absolute most important thing that will ensure an excellent standard of health in your animals is down to what you feed them.

Absolutely. My vet, a wonderful man, refuses to sell processed dog food. "It's s**t", he says. :)

But I always knew that. Mara lives on 90% uncooked chicken pieces (with bones) and 10% uncooked minced beef. No veg! She loves her all-meat diet, augmented occasionally with raw milk and beef bones. She also has lots of supplements, in proportional doggie doses. Those include:

A multivitamin containing almost everything
Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM
Fish oil
Hyaluronic acid
Borax
Collagen
C60 (when I have it!).

My goal (for her!) is for her to enjoy her high mountain hiking well into her 15th year, maybe longer. That seems totally on the cards. She's 100% blind (eye injuries, not a disease) and has platinum tendons in both hind legs (injuries again). But as I wrote above, she's probably hiked 5,000 mountain miles in her life, maybe more.

There are dozens of photos of her in the VERY high mountains here (up to 15,000 ft) on this thread:


Bill's searches for the Wawa Grande (Ecuador's Bigfoot) (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93672-Bill-s-searches-for-the-Wawa-Grande--Ecuador-s-Bigfoot-)

...and many others, not quite so spectacular, on this one:


Mara returns to the Mountains (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?121734-Mara-returns-to-the-Mountains)

I started that a couple of years ago once I realized — to my amazement! — that being 100% blind didn't stop her from mountain hiking one tiny bit. She 'sees' everything with her nose, and maybe with other senses that humans don't even have any way of understanding.

What she can do — including all on her own when we twice became completely separated, and with no eyes at all she somehow made her own way for a mile and a half back to the trailhead down a VERY complex route — is just extraordinary.

:focus:

[seekingtruth]

Wonderful to see Mara in such good hands. She's clearly living her best life. It warms my heart to see dogs that are healthy, happy and well cared for :)

Thinking of her (awesome) solo return, I wonder if the blindness has sharpened her sense of smell. After all it is well reported in humans, that other senses compensate when one is lost. So Mara probably has a razor sharp sense of smell!

[Bill Ryan]

https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/2005701796355064052?s=20

2005701796355064052
Tucker Carlson

@TuckerCarlson

Why’s it suddenly so expensive to take your dog to the vet? Here’s a hint: private equity. Joe Spector on the solution.

(0:00) Why Is Veterinary Care So Expensive?
(2:55) The Private Equity Firms Swallowing Small Businesses
(10:15) Why Are Veterinarians So Afraid of the FBI?
(14:53) Why Is There an Effort to Ban Telemedicine?
(20:55) How Does Dutch's Service Work?
(23:14) The AVMA Cartel Pushing Lobbying Politicians
(27:46) The Mass Veterinarian Shortage
(33:39) Why Spector Is So Dedicated to This Issue
(41:37) The AVMA Propaganda Lying to You About Your Pet~~~

The above was copied from mountain_jim's post on the Tucker Carlson thread. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?115734-Tucker-Carlson&p=1696881&viewfull=1#post1696881)

At 2:45, Joe Spector says: (referring of course to the US)
People are scared that the moment they enter a vet's office, they have a $500 bill or more.
Jeez! In Ecuador, I have one of the best vets in the known universe, and he charges $25 for a checkup. A broad-spectrum blood test (looking at everything) costs $60, and my dog Mara's monoclonal antibodies injection of Librela (https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/health/librela-for-dogs/) (which the vet gave her at the end of September) cost $90. That was supposed to be boosted after a month, but it's lasted really well till now and I'm guessing she may not need another for quite a long time.

A few years back when she had to have both her rear leg tendons surgically replaced (with platinum ones!), the cost was a total of $2500 for the two operations, spaced a month apart. That worked so perfectly there's never been an issue since.

How do these costs compare to those in other countries? :flower: