Ex Witch/Channeller/Shaman Saved by Jesus

[Mike]

I think this is one of the most compelling and sincere testimonies I've ever heard. I'm not a particularly religious person - not traditionally anyway - but I was very moved by this and would strongly suggest it to anyone.

I know the title will turn some people off right away, but this young woman doesn't spend much time preaching or attempting to convert anyone. She mostly just tells her story, and it's a whopper.

She was a young musician living the rock and roll lifestyle in Canada, then segued into occult stuff and finally became a Shamanic student, right up until her physical confrontation with an imposing demon.

This is a very grounded, no frills woman, entirely sincere in her motivations. This came from a pretty obscure channel that isn't really active presently, so she's not some new-age grifter type attempting to sell religion now after some faux conversion. It's 100% genuine, and I was very impressed by her and her courage.

1 hour and 50 mins:
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[sunwings]

This was very moving. Thank you for sharing.

[Matthew]

I look forward to listening tomorrow thanks for the thread (it's late here atm, I'll watch them with a fresh head). I've watched a few YouTube videos of people who say they are ex-dark-witches who are now Christians. On the Christian channels on social media there are lots of stories like this. One occultist said he turned to Jesus because he observed 'their side' couldn't beat the name of Jesus. This got him wondering if their side was the most powerful after all. Others have said that while they were in an out-of-body state trying to cause mischief they couldn't curse Christians who were currently praying. I'll hunt some of those videos down and share them here if someone doesn't beat me to it :cake:

[Mike]

I look forward to listening tomorrow thanks for the thread (it's late here atm, I'll watch them with a fresh head). I've watched a few YouTube videos of people who say they are ex-dark-witches who are now Christians. On the Christian channels on social media there are lots of stories like this. One occultist said he turned to Jesus because he observed 'their side' couldn't beat the name of Jesus. This got him wondering if their side was the most powerful after all. Others have said that while they were in an out-of-body state trying to cause mischief they couldn't curse Christians who were currently praying. I'll hunt some of those videos down and share them here if someone doesn't beat me to it :cake:


I think you'll like it Matthew.

I've seen quite a few occult-to-Christian videos too, and with all due respect to those, this one is a little different. This one is totally raw; it's just her speaking..no interviewer. It's not scripted, crafted, or anything of the sort. It's all right from the heart. And yet, she doesn't waffle or digress really at all.

Everyone has different experiences when it comes to "occult" stuff. Some people seem to thrive by utilizing tarot, ouija, astral travel, etc etc. And for others it appears to open up pathways to demonic experiences, and ultimately a communion with Jesus. I'm offering no judgement either way. I'm merely offering this up as one more data point among many.

[Johnnycomelately]

I look forward to listening tomorrow thanks for the thread (it's late here atm, I'll watch them with a fresh head). I've watched a few YouTube videos of people who say they are ex-dark-witches who are now Christians. On the Christian channels on social media there are lots of stories like this. One occultist said he turned to Jesus because he observed 'their side' couldn't beat the name of Jesus. This got him wondering if their side was the most powerful after all. Others have said that while they were in an out-of-body state trying to cause mischief they couldn't curse Christians who were currently praying. I'll hunt some of those videos down and share them here if someone doesn't beat me to it :cake:


I think you'll like it Matthew.

I've seen quite a few occult-to-Christian videos too, and with all due respect to those, this one is a little different. This one is totally raw; it's just her speaking..no interviewer. It's not scripted, crafted, or anything of the sort. It's all right from the heart. And yet, she doesn't waffle or digress really at all.

Everyone has different experiences when it comes to "occult" stuff. Some people seem to thrive by utilizing tarot, ouija, astral travel, etc etc. And for others it appears to open up pathways to demonic experiences, and ultimately a communion with Jesus. I'm offering no judgement either way. I'm merely offering this up as one more data point among many.

Hi Mike. I’ve only seen to 3:17 so far, intend to watch further, but I think I get the story.

We all have our flaws, our weaknesses, our own different stuff to deal with from our personal soul history, IMO. But I think that we all live our lives with the same constraints, the same spiritual “law” environment.

For me, life means intention. From the minerals of Earth and throughout the cosmos, the plant kingdom here and wherever and likewise the critter kingdom, to us so-called children of the whole, we all intend what we are.

For us ‘children’, in which I’d include any and all alien races, I think the key difference under that law is whether we are for or against.

I am aware of dark intentions, and they always mean to somehow be against. Like taking or hurting, or even in seemingly necessary defence.

I don’t use the word Jesus, I use the words The Christ, and I think it means ‘for’. I set that as my way, or my goal, since a while now. In my experience, we are empowered by whatever we choose to communicate with.

Cheers.

[norman]

I don’t use the word Jesus, I use the words The Christ, and I think it means ‘for’.



I think you are right about that. I recently heard a reading from the foreword of a Rudolf Steiner book from around 1908. I extracted a chunk of it that froze me with my mouth open when I first heard it.

Most of this extract is Steiner's view of Blavatsky, Besant and Theosophy but right at the end of it he mentions "The living Christ".

mp3
https://app.box.com/s/elmpu1sgic9c1l3geu35s6s9xl1oebgo

[Moemers]

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwvqZAvA7xTgKku6JioMbGA1WE3WmbL1ZwIyB9SJP1CSTJ9JRJDvL-gXtZGsCk022buC6S_fhyphenhyphenKCsQ-B3reiOqIiTzaA0Nk1dk5SyAfPbWGASI151VhRSk7PvvOy7aV3al03SbbpVs1ho/s1600/black-snake-moan-samuel-l-jackson.jpg

[Open Minded Dude]

Let's not forget there's lots of testimonies the other way round. From (fundamentalist) Christian to "new age", "esoteric" or just "spiritual" (whatever the wide spectrum offers.).

As astral projector I also read and heard a lot of stories from other projectors that "Jesus" or "Christ" is a strong protection (It's not from my own experience though). So I have no doubt about the valididity of the statement. I'm sure it works, also against attachments and posessions.

But so are any references or invocations of Archangel Michael (or others), Buddha, Mother Mary, Reiki-energy, Prana, God, Source, etc.

Just offering some perspective and relativity here to this discussion. There is no ONE way.

[Mike]

Let's not forget there's lots of testimonies the other way round. From (fundamentalist) Christian to "new age", "esoteric" or just "spiritual" (whatever the wide spectrum offers.).

Yeah for sure. I had a girlfriend who took that path. But as you say, it's usually the fundamentalist Christians who segue into other stuff, not the moderate ones.

As far as there being more than one way: You may be right! But then again you might not be. I just don't know. It's interesting to me that you'd make that statement with such confidence. I mean, what makes you so sure?

On the one hand it feels very restricting and dogmatic to say there's only one way to God. And I get that entirely. I can empathize with that position, and even hope most days it's not true. On the other hand, it's very easy to say there's more than one way, or even endless ways; that way you're relieved of the responsibility of having to define what spirituality is, and you can justify any action or inaction any way you please to account for that approach.

I know this kind of gets in people's craw, and it's not my intention to do that..but to me, it's sort of akin to the woke refusing to define the word "woman" or "man" almost, and the motivation is often the same too - to avoid personal responsibility. Fluidity (any kind, even spiritual fluidity) is often presented as something hip and progressive, but it's just another way of being cowardly and afraid in many instances.

One thing I will say is this: The Christians I've met are generally happier and far more at peace than any of the dedicated occultists/witchs/new-agers I've met. Whether that peace resides in some kind of delusion or not is another matter. Again, I don't know. I'm just offering observations.

Also, occult/New Age/witch/magik types often move from one thing to another, always searching for an answer. They begin with the psychic thing, then the channeling, then the astral travel, then the remote viewing, then this and then that. It's often a circular journey to nowhere. Christian types are already home as far as they're concerned; their searching is over. Their peace is in Jesus, and they require nothing else.

This isn't a promotion for Christianity necessarily. I just offer it here because it's kind of a novelty on a site like this one, where religion is kind of regarded as archaic and primitive.

[Mike]

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwvqZAvA7xTgKku6JioMbGA1WE3WmbL1ZwIyB9SJP1CSTJ9JRJDvL-gXtZGsCk022buC6S_fhyphenhyphenKCsQ-B3reiOqIiTzaA0Nk1dk5SyAfPbWGASI151VhRSk7PvvOy7aV3al03SbbpVs1ho/s1600/black-snake-moan-samuel-l-jackson.jpg


Ha! Touche:wink:

[Moemers]

"God" isn't even the only God in the Bible and I'll posit to you that most people are Christians for the same reason people voted for Kamala - most people will eat what's put in front of them, no questions asked. No primary, no considerations; they want it ready, packaged to heat up in the microwave so they can choke it down half warm and call it "nourishing".

Crowley wanted "each man to cut his own way through the Jungle" but why would they? Like you said, they're already at home...

[Mike]

"God" isn't even the only God in the Bible and I'll posit to you that most people are Christians for the same reason people voted for Kamala - most people will eat what's put in front of them, no questions asked. No primary, no considerations; they want it ready, packaged to heat up in the microwave so they can choke it down half warm and call it "nourishing".

Crowley wanted "each man to cut his own way through the Jungle" but why would they? Like you said, they're already at home...


Well, maybe.

Or, perhaps this tradition has lasted for thousands of years for a reason, and is far more profound than you or I can imagine. Maybe imbibing it all mindlessly is sort of foolish, but then again so is discarding all that accumulated wisdom in favor of the latest Dolores Cannon book.

[Moemers]

cool, you're standing at the edge of the jungle then. going in?

[Mike]

cool, you're standing at the edge of the jungle then. going in?


I think we're all in the jungle, whether we like it or not.

A Christian would likely argue that to not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior would result in endless cutting and no real peace. I made the observation earlier that this seems to be what a lot of occult/new age types do, for better or worse.

But even Christians have to do quite a bit of cutting thru the jungle to arrive at their faith finally. And then they stop cutting. It's often a circuitous route.

Me, I'm still cutting. But I'm seeing some daylight I think.

[Mike]

This is kind of a sister video to the original, for anyone who might be interested. Fascinating stuff by Mika here. 38 mins long:

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[Mike]

For the record, when I say 'new age types' I'm also including myself in that group to some degree. It's not meant as ridicule..just for anyone who might take offense.

I've had many psychic and astrological readings; I've practiced astral travel (unsuccessfully); I've had tarot readings; I've used a Ouija board; I've done crystal ceremonies etc etc etc. Everything Mika warns about, I've done it!:) So, I'm new-age too.

I've been a spiritual nomad for most of my life. And I always regarded this as somewhat noble and wise, until recently. Now I'm not so sure. There's something to be said for committing to something, embracing it totally, foibles and all, and allowing faith to carry you thru all the uncertainties. It's not just what one does when embracing a religion, but also when one gets married, has a family, or any number of deeply meaningful things.

I've always felt sort of clever avoiding what I felt to be these "traps", but now as time passes I'm discovering that what I wanted to believe was cleverness might just be fear presenting itself as cleverness. For most people, the things that give them the most meaning in their lives is their spouse, their kids, and their religion. All those things are big risks, loaded with uncertainties. You have to take risks and make uncertain commitments to have any chance at a meaningful life, far as I can tell. It takes far more courage to operate this way than to sit on the sidelines...and the more I think about it the more I think that's what new age practices really are - inaction presenting itself as action in order to trick oneself into thinking one is in the game while one is really on the sidelines running on a hamster wheel

[Olam]

Hi here, it's been a while...
I listened to the whole thing, was very moved by her authenticity and honesty.
Everytime I hear this kind of testimony, it always brings me back to my deep questioning on a few items she mentioned.

Last year about this time, my guru came into my heart, or was I the one to climb into his, no idea.
I have been worshiping Neem Karoli Baba / Hanuman....
He changed my life in a major way.
I used to get angry and bitter for nothing, had a difficult time finding my place in society.
Not only did he calm my heart, but opened me to myself, the real me, who can feel people just by looking at them.
I love to help people, I bless them silently most of the time, seeing them suffer.
Sometimes I do some healings if the opportunity is there.
Simple things.
Animals come to me with trust, I will restore faith in humanity in a dog that has suffered at the hands of a human.
I can bring peace to horses who have suffered from humans.
When a horse comes to see you and lets you do the work, it is not only an honor, but a confirmation to mne that I am doing the right work.
Horses don't mess around!...they have no time for bull****.
I have a long table at home where I honor my loved ones, including Jesus and my guru.
I have a crystal collection that I cherish, rare Lemurians and nice huge Amethyst points that are wrapped around with a mobius coil that is fed a 15Hz Hulda Clark signal.
I use a Raven's wing, givien to me by an wild animal caretaker, I use it for healings, create sacred wind to blow off collected muck around peoples bodies.
I also honor my Hanuman bronze statue, god of the wind with the wing....kind of powerful.
I have a Bible that I tend to read haphazardly, whatever page opens I read.
I was given my own sacred ancient Hebrew chant that basically honours God.
The Lady who gave it to me got it from her Spirit Guide, they both worked with me to guide me in my most difficult period in my life 30 yrs ago.
She is the one who restored some self love in me, showed me that I was worth loving and had much more in me that I could even imagine.
I now am comfortable doing my healings, a few words here and there that bring refections for some, helps them, guides them.
I feel them and just know what to say....not if I go fishing for info or try to impress the ladies, that does not work, I had to learn all that.

Here is a recent example, yesterday...
I contact my friend, tell him the planet positiuons are difficult right now. difficult in the sense of the personality living the moments.
At a soul level, it"s a great opportunity...
We are being forced to deal issues, fears that we thought had been finally dealt with once again.
People, situations come back on the table just like before.
This time though, universe is giving us the chance to re-visit these issues because now, we are more mature.
This time, instead of just dealing with the issues, we have the chance to heal them truly and step up on the next step of the soul ladder.
We have the past experience of how we dealt the thing and now with hindsight, we can finally take the appropriate action to finilize the lesson.
He could not believe I was saying all this as thats exactly what he was going thru.
By my words, it gave him the right perspective to deal the situation without fear or stress.

These things I do give me a sense of purpose in this life as I too sometimes still wonder what it is that I have to do here.

Now if you are still reading, here is my biggest question concerning the ladies testimony which I love and respect:

She thru 5000 dollars of crystals in the river, she got rid of any other idol than Jesus and seems like Jesus respects that.

Am I possesed?....am I hurting my relation to Jesus which I love?
The fact that I worship Hanuman, my guru and Jesus all the same, am I a heretic?

My parents baptized me, for many years we would go to church on Sunday, I would just sit there waiting for the thing to finish, thinking about the buffet food at Sunday brunch after church. It took a long while for me to understand the priviledge I had to be baptized. I now use holy water in my healings and feel lucky to have recieved this blessing on my body.
I am confused....
Still I wonder, and it is now not Catholic Guilt, ( It took years to get rid of that).
Do I have to throw away my Crystals, throw away my Hanuman statue?......do I stop helping people with what I feel from them because the devil is the one giving me the info?
Do I stop animal healings because because?

When I hear her testimony, thats what I get from it.

I thought all roads lead to God, like in Hindu culture, find your Deity that inspires you, If you are serious in the study, it leads to God!...
Is not God present in everything?
I truly want to do what is right in God's eyes, I don't want Jesus to ignore me.....
That would be so sad.

Kind of still confused when I thought I had it down....
Thats what I have to re-visit these days.

What do you think?

Many blessings to you all, may peace find your sacred heart.

[Friggasdottir]

Actually none of the Abrahamic religions (at least Chrstanianity and Islam) are that old in the grand scheme of things. In fact they took many of their elements from far older religions. So saying just because they have been around to stand the test of time is not a good litmus test of their validity.

[Moemers]

Actually none of the Abrahamic religions (at least Chrstanianity and Islam) are that old in the grand scheme of things. In fact they took many of their elements from far older religions. So saying just because they have been around to stand the test of time is not a good litmus test of their validity.

praying to Saints (and Jesus...) is necromancy.

[Mike]

Actually none of the Abrahamic religions (at least Chrstanianity and Islam) are that old in the grand scheme of things. In fact they took many of their elements from far older religions. So saying just because they have been around to stand the test of time is not a good litmus test of their validity.

Yep, fair enough. But the point is, it's all accumulated wisdom, thousands of years old, regardless of where it comes from and regardless of what it's called.

[Mike]

Olam, Great post. I can feel your struggle there, and I can also feel your deep sincerity. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I appreciate this type of honesty, because it describes many of my own feelings. I was raised Catholic, and whether it's something spiritual or merely habitual, I have felt "the call" to return to my roots.

But what would that mean exactly? How would that look practically? And how would I reconcile many of my non-Catholic beliefs with church dogma?

One obvious example is reincarnation. I believe in it pretty strongly. I don't want to be a buffet style Catholic, picking and choosing as I please, and yet there's some clear conflicts there.

There's so much I'd like to say, but I'll wrap it up with this: I had a dream once, when I was in my mid teens. Although I'd been a churchgoing kid and did religious ed classes and all that, I'd begun to drift away from all of it and was exploring I guess what you'd call new-age beliefs. Anyway, I felt quite a bit of guilt (good ol Catholic guilt LOL) and one evening I was visited in a dream by Jesus. He comforted me and told me my exploring was ok, assuaging my guilt. But the implication was, you'll find your way back to me eventually.

Was it just a dream? I'm not sure. It felt awfully real to me.

[Moemers]

look, here's the thing, and forgive me for belaboring this but it's the perfect thread for this thought

Human's role in the Cosmos is beauty and ceremony/ritual. We are capable of MUCH MUCH more than They think we should even know about and if you ever actually do any "New Age" practices you'll feel it happening, regardless of the outcome. When you're at Catholic Mass or in the woods or chanting with your coven around the rented lodge space or WHATEVER you will feel it. You'll feel your INBORN, BIRTH RIGHT ability to sing and dance along with the constant, ongoing creation of the Cosmos and MAYBE it will even "work" and you will have bent the arc of your life towards beauty and creation.

If suddenly one day a bright light appears and "Jesus" is standing there telling you the only thing you really need to do is to give all of that up and follow "Him" ...what does that look like to you?

What does it mean when an Entity shows up to you in the guise of a spiritual teacher from the near middle east 2000 years ago and asks you to stop being human and instead become a sheep in his flock?

[Mike]

What does it mean when an Entity shows up to you in the guise of a spiritual teacher from the near middle east 2000 years ago and asks you to stop being human and instead become a sheep in his flock?

You make a good point there, even if I'm not sure it's entirely accurate.

And don't worry about belaboring anything. I'm sort of thinking this through in real time and I appreciate your input.

The idea of surrendering myself to an abstract force turns my stomach into knots. And you might say that's all the evidence I need to avoid that sort of thing. But I'm not convinced it's all that simple. There are many things that have turned my stomach into knots that, when I took the plunge for one reason or another, was quite satisfying. In other words, is my fear the result of cowardice or the result of an inner guidance system warning me against something I should avoid? I'm honestly not sure.

I think we're always living in faith. When we leave the house and drive to work, we're living in faith...faith that the other drivers will be responsible and not hit me, faith that the traffic lights will work, that my car won't explode. We're always trusting in the innate goodness and competence of people and things around us, and that amounts to faith in God for me. There's always going to be an intellectual gap between what we know and what we believe to be at the other end of rainbow. Faith helps us navigate that uncertainty. But should it be Christian faith? Jewish faith? Hindu faith? New Age faith? No religion or faith at all? A hodge-podge personal belief system? I don't know. I'm trying to work all that out.

There's an argument to be made that any religion is far too structured and dogmatic, but I just don't believe you can live your life willy-nilly and have any kind of meaningful connection to God or the cosmos. Discipline is rarely connected to spirituality, but I think it's tightly connected. I think many people live life without boundaries and structure not because they believe it to be a spiritual way, or because they think religion is bad necessarily, but because they're sloppy and undisciplined and unwilling to do the work. Am I one of those people? That's the question I'm asking myself lately.

I just watch and observe. When a Christian ethos is lived out, at least generally speaking, among a certain populace, it appears to me to be the most desirable way to live and conduct oneself. I guess I'm describing what some people would call "cultural Christianity", which is the skeletal version without all the miracles and dogma. Even Richard Dawkins embraces this approach.

But he struggles with rest of it,as do I. But.. I believe it's all intertwined in elaborate ways. I think everything we see is a metaphor, or a symbolic representation of something existing in a higher realm. If a Christian ethos is lived out and is largely desirable, that might tell us something about what it represents in a higher realm.

[norman]

I think we're always living in faith. When we leave the house and drive to work, we're living in faith....



'Faith' is the most natural and powerful state of being, not just for humans but for all life.

That's why whatever we call the dark-side ( or at least I do ) works so hard to hijack it.

Similarly, almost all people really want to do the right thing. That's why the dark-side works so hard to make sure people don't know what the right thing is.

Nothing intellectually reasoned and absorbed from the external has a chance of being a defence against that hijacking.

[Moemers]

i think Faith is a sloppy word and all it does is keep the sheep following the herd/shepherd. What you're describing isn't faith in God. God doesn't make the ****ing traffic lights work dawg. You're describing faith in a system that will keep everything moving and then ascribing it to A VERY SPECIFIC NEAR MIDDLE EASTERN STORM GOD that somehow has you convinced that He (lol) is the end all be all. He's not even the only God in the Bible!

What did your ancestors do to maintain their relationships? Who did they pray to? I'm not telling you to pray to them (maybe consider it though cause I bet they're ready and willing to talk to you) but I do want to point you in the direction that they might have been looking - at their ancestors, at their specific locations (sometimes hyper-specific - there are places where every bend in a river has it's own tutelary spirit) and for specific community based reasons. This has all been replaced by a God who hopefully gets everyone to work and home safe from a 2.5 hour commute alone in their cars and also happens to make sure the traffic lights are working so you can get to work. A 40+ hour work week is what Jesus would do?

I ask you again - do you present yourself to be yoked to a God whose first act of human creation was to make a boy that he could watch walk around naked in his garden? How many little boys did this guy ask for? - the answer will surprise you lmao.


When a Christian ethos is lived out, at least generally speaking, among a certain populace, it appears to me to be the most desirable way to live and conduct oneself.

compared to what? What else have you seen otherwise? This is what I'm talking about. There's an absolute dearth of other examples of how to live outside of what you're pointing to and I bet you that the communities you're pointing to are often small and maintaining their own needs and even if they espouse "Faith" in "Jesus" THEY are the ones keeping their communities together and that's the dance of creation that I'm talking about.


If you wanna talk about Mysticism and G O D that's different. Christianity might have been the way 2000 years ago but man...Look on his works, his "Mighty" and see the despair

[Delight]

The person who told her story seemed very calm, peaceful and her words sounded authentic. Lately I am seeing something that makes me wonder.

Having done research into the Jesus narrative, I have heard so many different srories. Experts have revealed their take and they do not jive. It is very interesting to me to hear that some people beset by a terrible energetic attack are "saved" by Jesus. It does not always work as Nathaniel Gillis (once an exorcist) observed. He now has the idea that all the demonic, extraterrestrial, etc. presentations are one phenomenon. John Keel came to this conclusion. Keel did not see the phenomenon as friendly to humanity.

Jerry Marzinski engages the auditory hallucinations of schizophrenia. He is now convinced these are entity attachments.

Many many narratives of phenomenon interference have the same steps where the "entities" begin in a benign and helpful way and over time become increasingly tormenting. The torment is the important thing. If entities were always helpful, that would be ONE tHING BUT.... The torment, the inciting to crime, the increasing control over the human life points to malevolence.

My history with the Christ is that I love the teachings. I have a really hard time with the placement of Jesus as being 1. God. 2. Being the only path. 3. Being "my father". People seem to constantly use God and Jesus as synonyms and I do not grok that.

I am bothered that the religions see God as a masculine.

It concerns me to see how religions can be used to justify whatever the people include as part of the religion.

I never was a practitioner of any divination activity. I read quite a bit about the occult. Personally I did not like the Goddess stuff I studied extensively WHEN I deeply felt the POV excludes the masculine.

Mother Father God is real to me and I feel the Absolute. Why this IS, I do not know. It doesn't need a defense as it is entirely personal.

I have had a few very powerful revelations about evil IN MY ACTIONS. I feel 100% that I repudiate manipulation of others for any reason. I hear testimonioes which claim that because I cannot embrace Jesus as LORD etc., I am headed to hell. REALLY? I may be blasphomous but I do not want to go to heaven. I want to go direct to the Absolute.

I am having some daily struggles with the sheer avalanche of people talking about metaphysics. Honestly I think it is all astral stuff. It is not the TRUTH. The truth IS LOVE which operates on us such that we remove our shackles to self hate.

IMO self hate is what these poor people are being tormented by. Self hate MAY INVITE DEMONS OR WHATEVER IT IS? This is IMO the single most common teaching of religion. Fallen, sinful unworthy beings not even worthy of the crumbs under the Episcopal communion table.
NO. Just NO.

[norman]

I use the word faith quite comfortably because in my own lingual cerebral real estate I don't associate that word with religion. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that most people do. and in quite rightly rejecting religion they so reject my application of the word faith in the way I use it. Given that unfortunate issue, I'm pretty much on a hiding to nothing by continuing to use the word in serious conversation.

Some months ago, forum member here Agape sparked a little flash of inspiration to help me replace the word faith with a word more people might understand in a way that's closer to my intention. I know that's what she meant when she used her word for it, "know", or "knowing". It's distinctly in a different realm of meaning, especially in the current trends where it's quite common to understand a sentence like "belief is the enemy of knowing" etc.

So, I'm stepping into using the word know, instead, even though I'm very keen on sticking with the word faith because I know what it really means and if everyone I ever spoke to did also, it would still come out on top as the perfect fit right word for the purpose.

[Delight]

I listened to an interesting X space with Fringe who is an abductee and a man named Tyler Kiwala who has had some really interesting experiences and who has a youtube channel "Journey to Truth". He is an absolutely fascinating story teller. I don't mean he is untruthful but he has a vivid imagination. Also, he references multiple movies to give analogy to his story.

1863719825178235138

I absolutely believe some people are having extreme astral intrusions into 3D. I notice that people are having greater divergence in their experiences. I have said before that it feels as if the collective reality is shattering. What I wonder about. If there are entities with ability to penetrate our "ordinary" reality and this is happening more and more, I absolutely KNOW that a RELATIONSHIP with a REAL God which empowers us is necessary. The evidence is clear to me that I will not mess with the astral. In fact, in MY armaghedden scenario, what is destroyed IS the astral.

This pleases me to imagine because IMO it is the SOURCE of the mind parasite. IMO this parasite is everything ascribed to EVIL. IF it is the accumulation of our misuse of thinking, perhaps the oNLY way to escape "HELL" is to escape the sares of a clever, relentless, demonic type impingement on the psyche.

I pray that everyone feel what I do feel. Just by asking we may receive "something" ineffable but real which pulses life into us and lights the heart. The heart is IMO where the demons or phenomenon, whatever, cannot touch us without OUR turning hate in on oursleves. They can ride the hate. SO, if people can FEEL the Presence in the heart of God, it does not matter what they call it. If they are in the mind, they could "believe" many lies. The mind is a trap in this realm.

[Moemers]

lots of people are converting to Christianity as I type this. When real Evil comes into the world - I don't think that's being dramatic to say - people can recognize it. The only language they then have to describe it is ...Christianity.

Why is that? Why is a religion who marched across the world for 2000 years leaving burning pits of slaughter in their wake the one that people are turning to? I posit that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Something has been inhabiting the Abrahamic religions and it's not who they say it is. It has been walking around for centuries in these skins telling people they can have beautiful eternal shining hope if only they just give it all up and follow Jesus. If you had an abduction experience and the shining thing in front of you said, "hey, all you gotta do is follow me and have faith" what would you immediately think? If you heard that story, what would you think? Because you're being asked to do the same thing.

I don't want to keep stinking up this thread. If you're going to pursue this particular flavor of spiritual dish then I ask you to read some of the obscure mystic stuff, like Teresa of Avila and the Gnostic Gospels and I implore you, please, keep your heads above the water and try not to let any get in your mouth.

There is a REASON that a Catholic Priest can stand on the altar, ritually declare himself and become Christ, pass out the sacrament and then rape a young boy immediately afterwards. That, in context, says something much bigger than we want to admit. And it's been fed for 2000 years and for whatever reason it's really, really hungry lately and plenty of people are offering themselves up to it. And willingly.

[Johnnycomelately]

Replying to norman’s post,, #27.


I use the word faith quite comfortably because in my own lingual cerebral real estate I don't associate that word with religion. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that most people do. and in quite rightly rejecting religion they so reject my application of the word faith in the way I use it. Given that unfortunate issue, I'm pretty much on a hiding to nothing by continuing to use the word in serious conversation.

Some months ago, forum member here Agape sparked a little flash of inspiration to help me replace the word faith with a word more people might understand in a way that's closer to my intention. I know that's what she meant when she used her word for it, "know", or "knowing". It's distinctly in a different realm of meaning, especially in the current trends where it's quite common to understand a sentence like "belief is the enemy of knowing" etc.

So, I'm stepping into using the word know, instead, even though I'm very keen on sticking with the word faith because I know what it really means and if everyone I ever spoke to did also, it would still come out on top as the perfect fit right word for the purpose.

Hi again, Sir. I like your affirmation of “faith” as a valid word for what Agape calls “knowing”. To me, they both mean near certainty of truth in judging an/some issue.

My best friend in high school introduced me to the idea of ascribing a percentage to how likely one thinks any particular idea is to being true. At or very near 100% qualifies as ‘know’, and justifies ‘faith’, IMO. Everything else needs more study, before embracing or throwing out.

[Johnnycomelately]

Olam, Great post. I can feel your struggle there, and I can also feel your deep sincerity. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I appreciate this type of honesty, because it describes many of my own feelings. I was raised Catholic, and whether it's something spiritual or merely habitual, I have felt "the call" to return to my roots.

But what would that mean exactly? How would that look practically? And how would I reconcile many of my non-Catholic beliefs with church dogma?

One obvious example is reincarnation. I believe in it pretty strongly. I don't want to be a buffet style Catholic, picking and choosing as I please, and yet there's some clear conflicts there.

There's so much I'd like to say, but I'll wrap it up with this: I had a dream once, when I was in my mid teens. Although I'd been a churchgoing kid and did religious ed classes and all that, I'd begun to drift away from all of it and was exploring I guess what you'd call new-age beliefs. Anyway, I felt quite a bit of guilt (good ol Catholic guilt LOL) and one evening I was visited in a dream by Jesus. He comforted me and told me my exploring was ok, assuaging my guilt. But the implication was, you'll find your way back to me eventually.

Was it just a dream? I'm not sure. It felt awfully real to me.

Mike, about reincarnation, relative to Christianity, look up the 300-400 AD ~”pow wow of Micea”, where the teachings of one guy were declared anathema. I forget that guy’s name.

My best pointer is, build yourself your own ‘theory of life, the universe, and everything’. I think it needs only looking within.

[Johan (Keyholder)]

Hi Johnycomelately. You probably are talking about the first council of Nicea, held around 320 AD.
The guy in question was Arius.

"Arius criticized Alexander's teachings (archbishop of Alexandria) on Christology; Alexander taught that Jesus as God the Son was eternally generated from the Father, while Arius and his followers asserted that the Father alone was eternal, and that the Son was created or begotten by the Father, and thus had a defined point of origin and was subordinate to the Father. Arius accused Alexander of following the teachings of Sabellius, who taught that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were one person, rather than the view held throughout the east that they were distinct."

That still would lead to a dispute today I think.

But the above is not an anathema on reincarantion in christianity.
Thàt came up in 543 AD, when emperor Justinianus declared Origen's teachings to be "anathema":

"Whoever says or thinks that human souls pre-existed, i.e., that they had previously been spirits and holy powers, but that, satiated with the vision of God, they had turned to evil, and in this way the divine love in them had died out (ἀπψυγείσας) and they had therefore become souls (ψυχάς) and had been condemned to punishment in bodies, shall be anathema."

Both quotes from Wikipedia as source.

[Mike]

i think Faith is a sloppy word and all it does is keep the sheep following the herd/shepherd. What you're describing isn't faith in God. God doesn't make the ****ing traffic lights work dawg. You're describing faith in a system that will keep everything moving and then ascribing it to A VERY SPECIFIC NEAR MIDDLE EASTERN STORM GOD that somehow has you convinced that He (lol) is the end all be all. He's not even the only God in the Bible!

Well, it was a metaphor I was making there. And I'm not convinced of anything quite yet. I'm not sure how many times I've written the words "I don't know" in this thread, but it would make for a decent drinking game for anyone paying attention. It appears you're arguing passionately against an opponent of your own making. This has become an exploratory thread. An intellectual exercise. So relax yourself, dawg.

Yes, I do think God is a He. No, I don't think He has a big swinging dick, but I think His energy is decidedly masculine, and it's reflected in our hierarchical structures. But - pay attention here please - I don't know for sure.


I ask you again - do you present yourself to be yoked to a God whose first act of human creation was to make a boy that he could watch walk around naked in his garden? How many little boys did this guy ask for? - the answer will surprise you lmao.

The suspense is killing me. How many?


When a Christian ethos is lived out, at least generally speaking, among a certain populace, it appears to me to be the most desirable way to live and conduct oneself.


compared to what?
All the Muslim countries, for starters.

[Mike]

The person who told her story seemed very calm, peaceful and her words sounded authentic. Lately I am seeing something that makes me wonder.

Having done research into the Jesus narrative, I have heard so many different srories. Experts have revealed their take and they do not jive. It is very interesting to me to hear that some people beset by a terrible energetic attack are "saved" by Jesus. It does not always work as Nathaniel Gillis (once an exorcist) observed. He now has the idea that all the demonic, extraterrestrial, etc. presentations are one phenomenon. John Keel came to this conclusion. Keel did not see the phenomenon as friendly to humanity.

Jerry Marzinski engages the auditory hallucinations of schizophrenia. He is now convinced these are entity attachments.

Many many narratives of phenomenon interference have the same steps where the "entities" begin in a benign and helpful way and over time become increasingly tormenting. The torment is the important thing. If entities were always helpful, that would be ONE tHING BUT.... The torment, the inciting to crime, the increasing control over the human life points to malevolence.

My history with the Christ is that I love the teachings. I have a really hard time with the placement of Jesus as being 1. God. 2. Being the only path. 3. Being "my father". People seem to constantly use God and Jesus as synonyms and I do not grok that.

I am bothered that the religions see God as a masculine.

It concerns me to see how religions can be used to justify whatever the people include as part of the religion.

I never was a practitioner of any divination activity. I read quite a bit about the occult. Personally I did not like the Goddess stuff I studied extensively WHEN I deeply felt the POV excludes the masculine.

Mother Father God is real to me and I feel the Absolute. Why this IS, I do not know. It doesn't need a defense as it is entirely personal.

I have had a few very powerful revelations about evil IN MY ACTIONS. I feel 100% that I repudiate manipulation of others for any reason. I hear testimonioes which claim that because I cannot embrace Jesus as LORD etc., I am headed to hell. REALLY? I may be blasphomous but I do not want to go to heaven. I want to go direct to the Absolute.

I am having some daily struggles with the sheer avalanche of people talking about metaphysics. Honestly I think it is all astral stuff. It is not the TRUTH. The truth IS LOVE which operates on us such that we remove our shackles to self hate.

IMO self hate is what these poor people are being tormented by. Self hate MAY INVITE DEMONS OR WHATEVER IT IS? This is IMO the single most common teaching of religion. Fallen, sinful unworthy beings not even worthy of the crumbs under the Episcopal communion table.
NO. Just NO.


Thanks for the thoughtful post Delight.

I'm a student of Keel as well, and he did eventually conclude that all the phenomena were exclusively (or at least largely) demonic in nature. I vacillate just a little there. If you read his books, the phenomena he's reporting on (at least in 'The Mothman Prophecies') are not your classic grey, reptilian, or tall blond "aliens". The infamous "Indrid Cold" was quite human looking in appearance, Asian looking, but more darkly complected. There's almost no mention of the conventional aliens in his writing that I can recall. So one could argue he was dealing with another phenomena all together. Hard to say.

re schitzophrenia: I think that's an entity attachment malady as well.

I share many of the concerns you do about religion. But at this point in my life, I think I'm more concerned about the alternatives.

[Johnnycomelately]

Hi Johnycomelately. You probably are talking about the first council of Nicea, held around 320 AD.
The guy in question was Arius.

"Arius criticized Alexander's teachings (archbishop of Alexandria) on Christology; Alexander taught that Jesus as God the Son was eternally generated from the Father, while Arius and his followers asserted that the Father alone was eternal, and that the Son was created or begotten by the Father, and thus had a defined point of origin and was subordinate to the Father. Arius accused Alexander of following the teachings of Sabellius, who taught that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were one person, rather than the view held throughout the east that they were distinct."

That still would lead to a dispute today I think.

But the above is not an anathema on reincarantion in christianity.
Thàt came up in 543 AD, when emperor Justinianus declared Origen's teachings to be "anathema":

"Whoever says or thinks that human souls pre-existed, i.e., that they had previously been spirits and holy powers, but that, satiated with the vision of God, they had turned to evil, and in this way the divine love in them had died out (ἀπψυγείσας) and they had therefore become souls (ψυχάς) and had been condemned to punishment in bodies, shall be anathema."

Both quotes from Wikipedia as source.

Hi Johan. Yeah it may have been the latter, I’m not a scholar and it has been 3+ decades since I encountered that idea. My source for it was not Wikipedia, but was said to be some legit historical record, which should still be available as a reference.

My intention, with that reference, was to say to Mike that reincarnation has some roots in Christianity. So, to not sweat that as a seemingly key detail of the thing.

I came to accept reincarnation as a plausible thing before I found the Christian teaching of it, from ‘conservation of energy’, when I began studying physics in high school.

[DNA]

We live in a time when multiple generations are suffering from cultural indoctrination and brain washing. We live in a time where single parent homes have children raised by the state.

A confused lost and in many ways morally compromised society needs religion for its strong ethical framework.

We don't have time to create a new one so Christianity will have to do.

Look at the greater portion of Trump supporters. A lot of them, maybe even the greater portion of them are dumb asses but they are Christian, they know what is right and wrong. This religious core is the commonality among those against the globalists. Something to encourage and well join even if you're only there doing lip service.
I go to church. I take my family to church.
It's hard sometimes.
I KNOW the truth.
I know what's going on.
But that's not what is important right now.
Encouraging this and making friends with high morals and down to earth people.
That's what is important.
We can't just sit around on the computer we have to find a way into our neighborhood and network and bond. Religion helps us do this.

Society is a school for young souls.
Old souls become loners.
But we don't have the luxury of sitting in our cave on a mountain top anymore.
And secularism hasn't worked at all in replacing religion. These young soul assholes need the threat of eternal damnation in a fiery lake of lava to tow the line. So yes. Give them that.

In Jesus name Amen

[norman]

Hi Johnycomelately. You probably are talking about the first council of Nicea, held around 320 AD.
The guy in question was Arius.

"Arius criticized Alexander's teachings (archbishop of Alexandria) on Christology; Alexander taught that Jesus as God the Son was eternally generated from the Father, while Arius and his followers asserted that the Father alone was eternal, and that the Son was created or begotten by the Father, and thus had a defined point of origin and was subordinate to the Father. Arius accused Alexander of following the teachings of Sabellius, who taught that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were one person, rather than the view held throughout the east that they were distinct."

That still would lead to a dispute today I think.

But the above is not an anathema on reincarantion in christianity.
Thàt came up in 543 AD, when emperor Justinianus declared Origen's teachings to be "anathema":

"Whoever says or thinks that human souls pre-existed, i.e., that they had previously been spirits and holy powers, but that, satiated with the vision of God, they had turned to evil, and in this way the divine love in them had died out (ἀπψυγείσας) and they had therefore become souls (ψυχάς) and had been condemned to punishment in bodies, shall be anathema."

Both quotes from Wikipedia as source.

Hi Johan. Yeah it may have been the latter, I’m not a scholar and it has been 3+ decades since I encountered that idea. My source for it was not Wikipedia, but was said to be some legit historical record, which should still be available as a reference.

My intention, with that reference, was to say to Mike that reincarnation has some roots in Christianity. So, to not sweat that as a seemingly key detail of the thing.

I came to accept reincarnation as a plausible thing before I found the Christian teaching of it, from ‘conservation of energy’, when I began studying physics in high school.




I have to call this an opinion, but it doesn't feel like one to me.


Once you've experienced what faith really is. reincarnation becomes a secondary matter and mainly a subject the intellect plays with while it's being so constantly distracted from living in faith.

[Akasha]

.....The truth IS LOVE which operates on us such that we remove our shackles to self hate.....

YES, Delight!

Once we have gnosis of love, faith and belief fall by the wayside......where they belong.

My “fundamental” issue with xstianity (spelled that way because it is not "anointed") is that it requires one to relinquish their universal sovereignty, consciousness and personal responsibility, and replace it with scape-goat, blood ritual mumbo-jumbo. Talk about a rough trade.

[norman]

Love is a pretty good word for it but it gets badly misunderstood too.

As for the mention of blood rituals, that's the dark world of fakers and the hijackers trying to flip the whole world upside down. Most days it feels like they already have. They've got all their bases covered including lovely platitudes. They've got fake versions of everything and have distributed them everywhere.

[Delight]

I only recently ever felt the Presence. It was a process of becoming in a relationship. It is real. It does not speak to me. It just IS and I find more and more that I am kind of in a harmony. Life is good. I do love to think about WOO! I could possibly be addicted to woo by proxy so I want to hear what people are experiencing in the WOO. MY only experience is that here and now is not being impinged upon by terrible oppression.

I may be wrong but I KNOW in my bones that this experience is ALL about meeting the Presence. WHEN you are in the relationship, you KNOW when you hear something that it rings like a bell or is dull. IMO we are in some form of the Valley of The Shadow of DEATH. The Inversion is all about death, destruction and mayhem.

When we have the Presence, we are guided, fed and supported. So, we can deal with EVIL without fear. In the Inversion you hear you are basically fallen and sinful so you need religion and threat. However, when you meet the Presence, you KNOW how loved you are, how well you are, how secure you are. It is not a mind experience. It enters into the fiber of being. One will be uninterested in the INVERSION's snares. You sort of turn right side back to in.

IMO this is not a real place but we are real and God IS HERE with us. This may be what all the saved remember?

The false light is not the Presenece. It plays on what we are trying to remember. However, it is part of the INVERSION in beautiful clothes. IMO what people are calling the Phenomenon is astral pretense in our minds. It is really important to be aware in the heart.

[Delight]

I see the Phenomenon as being of the nature of Paul Levy's Wetiko. It is a hateful mind virus whispering Evil (LIVE backwards). EVIL is certainly within us. It must beintegrated in our own being.

Levy is focused on quantum physics as a kind of terma to help us understand the dream like quality of our lives. My thought is that when one moves awareness to the heart and when we connect to God, we can look at all the spins and experience our own kind of life in which Wetiko cannot bend our minds. Information is for the mind. Experience is for the BODY. We somehow have to connect the way what we think and our POV (observation) as creating "reality" is an endless series of thought forms which is of the Matterium. You are participating and IMO taking the point of awareness to the heart enables us to "be in the world (dream) but not of the world". I like what levy thinks about creativity and IMO we are at a place where we must IMAGINE what we choose to be observed in the matterium of which we are enmeshed. It is so easy when you are IN your spirit rope where THERE it is you and God BEFORE any manifested experience. It is really FULL and without need so manifestation MUST be that.

opitWbCzyj4

[norman]

I'm currently on Josh Del Sol's email list. Today, he sent a quite personal message. Much of it confirms why I've never been much of a 'fan' but in the section I'm quoting here he seems to have broken through the key delusion that most people, especially successful intellectuals, never seem to manage to do in anything more than a passing theoretical glimpse, from time to time, at best. As of yet, Josh is still not walking the talk, either.


I was quite surprised and pleased to read these words from him today.


It isn't that we never do the good things on the right, it's that the things on the left are easier in the short-term... so without a code or a vision rooted in our Core, we tend to increasingly gravitate to doing life in that "left mode."

The essence of our upside-down world, aka clown world, is that these tendencies become defaults. It may be better described as backwards world, or “living in reverse”. (And “live” backwards happens to spell “evil”.)

We have all become indoctrinated in some degree, to do life this way. It’s because when we live this way we are controllable, and we fuel upside-down world by giving it tons of power and energy.

Control through energy-harvesting seems to have become the driving motive behind the invasion of media and technology into every corner of our lives.

Consequently, our lives and connections have become shallow and lacking in meaning — in direct proportion to how much we are living “backwards” rather than forwards.

Our responsibility in this experience is essentially that we have been implicitly or explicitly agreeing with a control agenda aimed at stopping original creation happening through us.


He flips from saying upside down to backwards and forwards, which shows a fuzziness of his grasp of what he's talking about. Later in the letter he drifts completely away into conceptualisations that come right out of New Age ism.

In the bolded part, he hits the nail right on the head. In New Age ism people waffle on in multiple ways about how we are energy harvested or how we are forewarned in movies etc to shift 'Karma' away from 'them' onto us, bla bla bla, the mugs and sheeple. No it's simpler and plainer than that. They keep us living our lives upside down. The rest is automatic.

[JackMcThorn]

My religious / spiritual path had many curves and several forks in it. I'll spare you the path for now after all these struggles and challenges. Well, strike that, I will give you a quick summary.

Brought up Catholic - 197o's-1993. Distanced myself from it as a young adult due to personal conflicts and exposure to options - 1993-2oo8. Tried an alternative christian denomination - 2oo8-2o1o. Distanced myself from that. Tried Deism - 2o1o-2o16. Found it without much of an anchor - no symbols nothing to hold on to - just a fundamental belief in God and nothing else.

What I ended up with was ancient solitary witchcraft since 2o16. [Not involved in a coven and do not wish to be.]

The thing about a solitary type of spirituality is no one else can interfere with your spirituality. Not one single person on the planet. The sky therefore is the limit. A solitaire is in complete control and it is expressively personal. Because of this feature, I find that in its personal nature, I generally keep it to myself. But this topic is quite compelling and I wished to offer a perspective of changing from actual religion to witchcraft.

My decisions were based on the conflicts of the Catholic church and the inconsistencies with the message and the actions of its leaders. From a young age I realized that something was wrong but I had to follow through because that is what my family did - notwithstanding 8 years of parochial school on top of it. Until I left home. When I was in Navy boot camp in the summer of 1993, we marched to service every Sunday, and every time it was a different service to accommodate the variety of belief systems prevailing. As a young Catholic, all I had known were about Catholics and barely seeing a synagogue a couple times, I knew about Judaism from the Catholic teachings but never was exposed to a service. This experience in the Navy really opened my eyes as to the many different faiths and how ignorant I was of them.

My distancing from 1993-2oo8 is a long time. In 1997 I married a Christian lady. She was Lutheran. In 2oo4 when my dear daughter arrived, wife pressed me to make a decision to get her baptised [so she could go to heaven if anything bad happened in her youth, like an accident or something.] I held off for a year. I was torn. Should she be Catholic or Lutheran? I wasn't a practicing Catholic. In 2oo5 when she was 1 year old, I caved and she was baptised as a Lutheran. [Wife wasn't practicing either.]

So in 2o16 I was struggling hard with being a Deist after 6 years. I thought at first it was a good decision. Remove religion and believe in God. But once you do that, there is nothing else left to do. Ok, so you believe in God. Now what?

So I was searching again. And found some answers. I find that I can have some tangible and intangible aspects to my 'faith' if you are so compelled to refer to it as such. With over 3,ooo years of historical perspective and the liberty to engage or disengage at will. To make it your own. I have basically carved my own personal spirituality with the influences I prefer less the nuances I do not.

So the result is a different appreciation of life; one that is rich in a niche but very old history. Have I escaped the clutches of fears dogmatic religions impose? I think to a point. Witchcraft is not without its trials but there is a peacefulness espoused in the basics of nature which is the actual root of witchcraft. The natural world contributes to much of the symbology. This is where the tangible and intangible meet.

I am happy and I no longer have the emptiness from those years of Deism. Just like they say, do what makes you happy. That would be the only advice I would be fit to give.

[Isserley]

One obvious example is reincarnation. I believe in it pretty strongly. I don't want to be a buffet style Catholic, picking and choosing as I please, and yet there's some clear conflicts there.

There should be no conflict regarding reincarnation. Prior to Second Church Council - it was a part of Christian doctrine in a way.
In my view it would be better option to take from Christian doctrine parts which early Christians / Gnostics taught.
They had a good understanding in Archonic influences which is completely ignored in the official doctrine today

It is believed that in 553 A.D. during the Second Council of Constantinople the idea of reincarnation was found to have no place in the Christian Church. Although reincarnation was not officially rejected at this council, those early Church Fathers who were accused of teaching the idea of reincarnation had their works banned. 553 A.D. did mark the end of the debate on reincarnation within the Christian community.
https://epubs.utah.edu/index.php/historia/article/view/578

[Mike]

One obvious example is reincarnation. I believe in it pretty strongly. I don't want to be a buffet style Catholic, picking and choosing as I please, and yet there's some clear conflicts there.

There should be no conflict regarding reincarnation. Prior to Second Church Council - it was a part of Christian doctrine in a way.
In my view it would be better option to take from Christian doctrine parts which early Christians / Gnostics taught.
They had a good understanding in Archonic influences which is completely ignored in the official doctrine today

It is believed that in 553 A.D. during the Second Council of Constantinople the idea of reincarnation was found to have no place in the Christian Church. Although reincarnation was not officially rejected at this council, those early Church Fathers who were accused of teaching the idea of reincarnation had their works banned. 553 A.D. did mark the end of the debate on reincarnation within the Christian community.
https://epubs.utah.edu/index.php/historia/article/view/578

Thanks! Yeah I'm just sort of discovering all this. Appreciate the link.