Secrets of the Urim - Thummin; Hermes Thrice Greatest; and the Un-Promised Lands

[Jim_Duyer]

The truth is, however, that some did know, and they published it in extra-Biblical publications done by the enlightened group that formed a part of the Societies of the followers of Hermes Trismegistus, which name is from the Ancient Greek, and means "Hermes the Thrice-Greatest". Hermes is the Greek version of Thoth, who was the Egyptian god of wisdom, knowledge, writing, hieroglyphs, science, magic, art and judgment.

A great deal of help in determining the stones of the Urim - Thummim and their order on the breastplate of Aaron came from this work on Hermes Tismegistus:

Three Books of Occult Philosophy written by Henry Cornelius Agrippa of Nettesheim, in which he assigns gemstones to certain stars, based on the works of Hermes. Agrippa was chosen in the late summer of 1511 to act as theologian at the Council of Pisa, convened by King Louis XII of France and Emperor Maximilian I of Germany, ostensibly to reform ecclesiastical abuses, but really to defy the authority of Pope Julius II. An order of excommunication was declared against him and his fellow Council members.

In February 1513, when the aged Julius II died, the new Pope, Leo X, sent a letter to Agrippa through his secretary revoking his excommunication.

In the summer of 1515 he delivered a series of lectures on the "Pymander of Hermes Trismegistus" at the University of Pavia. According to the historian Morley, these met with such applause that the University conferred upon him doctorates of divinity, law and medicine.


THE THREE BOOKS OF OCCULT PHILOSOPHY - BOOK I, CHAPTER XXXII
“What things are under the signs, the Fixed stars, and their images”.

“Moreover I will according to the doctrine of Hermes, and Thebit, reckon up some of the more eminent stars, whereof the first is called the Head of Algol, and amongst stones rules over the diamond, amongst plants, black hellebore, and mugwort.” Much of his writings are done in code, and one needs to compare his images with his text to arrive at the correct answers. But then again, if it were made simple, everyone would know this and not just the adepts.

His work continues in great detail from there and even into other books and editions, but to make this shorter I will give a summary of the details here.

Imagine how intriguing a text would be that talked about mysterious objects and concepts like the Philosopher's Stone and the Lost City of Atlantis. This text is referred to as the Emerald Tablets, an ancient work supposedly carved into emerald or green stone, though the actual tablets have never been found. No one is sure when the tablets were actually written, but they were attributed to Hermes Trismegistus.

These writings laid the basis of various philosophical systems known as Hermeticism. So there may be some interest from those who are interested in this as well. I know that I have read much of their works and find jewels of semi-hidden knowledge in many parts of it. And the figure of Hermes Trismegistus can also be found in both Muslim and Bahá'í writings. In those traditions, Hermes Trismegistus has been associated with the prophet Idris (the Biblical Enoch). So they really intertwine with quite a few belief systems.

One topic that they spend quite a bit of time on is the twin columns of knowledge, said by some to have been made by one of the sons of Adam, and made prior to the flood to preserve the knowledge of the ancients. One on wood to float, and one on stone to withstand time. In their version, Hermes found these and rewrote them for his enlightened followers.


My objective was to show that fake news and figures in power that simply cannot be trusted did not begin in modern times, but has been with mankind since he was first placed on his planet - and perhaps before. Either the public is not ready to explore this topic or I am a very poor presenter of what I have discovered - or perhaps both, that answer remains to be seen.

I was upsetting people's comfort zone and I am sorry for introducing this. Thus my edit.

Jim

[shaberon]

A great deal of help in determining the stones of the Urim - Thummim and their order on the breastplate of Aaron came from this work on Hermes Tismegistus


These stones are not actually given.

Some of them are mentioned but you will find a conflation between "sapphire" and "lapis lazuli".

There is no relation between this breastplate and the Zodiac.


Hermetism is post-Alexandrian and is a small and unique tip on a tapestry of Greek syncretism. The by far larger part of it is Zoroastrian similar to Mandean.

The Hermitists were trying to syncretize Egypt. What is different about them is that it also syncretizes the Abrahamic faiths. The Iranian and Aramaic lineages specifically reject Abraham; however, Hermes enters their synthesis.


We have always considered that Hermetic Philosophy might be beneficial. The London Lodge of the Theosophical Society when passed to the leadership of Anna Kingsford was planned to be a Hermetic Lodge. She however went under the influence of Golden Dawn so it didn't work out.

This was after, I think you could say, pulses. Such as the original Rosicrucians and Alchemy. It is the Globus Cruciger of the Holy Roman Empire and the real work of Isaac Newton. Harran was functional through the 1,200s. So yes this has been an ongoing attempt to intellectually speak up underneath the Catholic monolith. It is not Protestantism, but, was attractive to some early Protestants. In other words, there are centuries' worth of a real thing, to which the GD are adventurers, or interlopers, or their own business.


Theosophy was started as the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor--the document used for this is mind blowing. Anyway, another American group formed using a similar name, and so it was said that "Luxor" was a copied name from the east. Well, from Major Tod's geography you are able to determine that "Lak Shar" means "The Pass" and is where a traveler from west Asia would first emerge from the mountains and enter the cultural zone of India.

It was a mission to combat necromancy and spiritism which had become a form of entertainment in the 1800s.

A clue to the thing is that the Hermetic Adepts had the power called in India Mayavirupa, that is, they could astrally project anywhere at will and in some cases affect the material world. But for the most part they would be considered invisible except to psychics. At times up to seven of them were watching the proceedings for the nascent Society. But that's what it was. HPB had the Cagliostro Jewel.

Overall it seemed to have been an effort to re-establish the Hermetic Philosophy and then show it as a parallel to that of India. It kind of is, with certain differences, such as notably Gemini I would say. These Dioscuri deities along with in Hermetism the symbol of Pillars of the Temple of Solomon are a kind of keynote for the "restoration" of western civilization in general. It matures in multi-voiced harmony music based out of Music of the Spheres. India does not have that.


But yes original Theosophy was the work of multiple Hermetists of their own countries in traditional lineages. The connection with India was more or less the status quo for mankind until the Sassanian and Roman Empires, by religious doctrines, decimating what had developed through Greek syncretism.

[Jim_Duyer]

Shaberon - thank you for your wisdom-laden comments.



These stones are not actually given. [Not with Agrippa. I first studied him for his stars, which correlate with some of my own Sumerian studies to a degree. Later Hermitica gave me names for stones, and comparing of this with other texts gave me the stones in the UT. It was a long process.]

Some of them are mentioned but you will find a conflation between "sapphire" and "lapis lazuli".
[Yes, you will also find confusion over most of the other stones as well. The fact that so many groups had such diversive suggestions towards the makeup and pattern of the stone, and that the Hebrew Rabbi over the years disagreed with each other, led me to believe in a coverup of historical portions. Why they would do this led me to other findings. I was, quite frankly, quite surprised when I put Miriam and Aaron together with Egyptian magic and discovered the UT magic trick as well. Ezra, in fact, along with Isaiah, do not speak well of the Jerusalem-centered group of Levites and Aaron in particular. Ezra, Daniel, Isaiah and Job were, after all, from the northern, non-Judan group of Hebrews.]

There is no relation between this breastplate and the Zodiac. [No, not that I could find. But I don't think that I suggested that there was. ]


Hermetism is post-Alexandrian and is a small and unique tip on a tapestry of Greek syncretism. The by far larger part of it is Zoroastrian similar to Mandean. [Two points that I may disagree on, but respect your own opinion. Hermeticism is much older than the Greeks. It was originally Zoroastrian and not much later Mandean and Egyptian. From the dated archaeological markings in Eastern Iran and in the Zagros mountains, I have found that Zoroastrian beliefs were around much earler than our scholars will allow - prior to the Akkadians for sure. Mandeans were also much earlier than most will currently allow, but that's a topic related to the wooden and stone pillars of knowledge.]

The Hermitists were trying to syncretize Egypt. What is different about them is that it also syncretizes the Abrahamic faiths. The Iranian and Aramaic lineages specifically reject Abraham; however, Hermes enters their synthesis. {I agree to a point - and I am not familiar with the Iranian [Elamite?] as you probably are, but in Aramaic I have found almost no mention of Abraham. They did not, most specifically, like Yahweh - their God was El, just as Abraham and Melchezideck believed, and Job and Ezra and Daniel, and others. Again, basically the northern kingdom was El, the Creator God and the Judean-Jerusalem-Levite crowd was Yahweh, the God from Sinai, introduced to them, the Bible says, by the Kennites (Cainites) of Moses's second wife.]


We have always considered that Hermetic Philosophy might be beneficial. The London Lodge of the Theosophical Society when passed to the leadership of Anna Kingsford was planned to be a Hermetic Lodge. She however went under the influence of Golden Dawn so it didn't work out. [Yes, the Golden Dawn. I've never figured out how deep their relation to the Masonic crowd goes, but both groups are connected to the Dons of NASA.]

This was after, I think you could say, pulses. Such as the original Rosicrucians and Alchemy. It is the Globus Cruciger of the Holy Roman Empire and the real work of Isaac Newton. Harran was functional through the 1,200s. So yes this has been an ongoing attempt to intellectually speak up underneath the Catholic monolith. It is not Protestantism, but, was attractive to some early Protestants. In other words, there are centuries' worth of a real thing, to which the GD are adventurers, or interlopers, or their own business. {I am in full agreement with all of this statement, according to my researches.]


Theosophy was started as the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor--the document used for this is mind blowing. Anyway, another American group formed using a similar name, and so it was said that "Luxor" was a copied name from the east. Well, from Major Tod's geography you are able to determine that "Lak Shar" means "The Pass" and is where a traveler from west Asia would first emerge from the mountains and enter the cultural zone of India. {I did not know that. Thank you.]

It was a mission to combat necromancy and spiritism which had become a form of entertainment in the 1800s. [I can see that happening.]

A clue to the thing is that the Hermetic Adepts had the power called in India Mayavirupa, that is, they could astrally project anywhere at will and in some cases affect the material world. But for the most part they would be considered invisible except to psychics. At times up to seven of them were watching the proceedings for the nascent Society. But that's what it was. HPB had the Cagliostro Jewel. [Well, you are the expert on the historical India, and I will file this information in my research drawer.]

Overall it seemed to have been an effort to re-establish the Hermetic Philosophy and then show it as a parallel to that of India. It kind of is, with certain differences, such as notably Gemini I would say. These Dioscuri deities along with in Hermetism the symbol of Pillars of the Temple of Solomon are a kind of keynote for the "restoration" of western civilization in general. It matures in multi-voiced harmony music based out of Music of the Spheres. India does not have that. [My own findings tell me that when the adepts point to the Pillars, they are in fact pointing to the Obelisks of Ra/Re in On (Heliopolis), which has much connection to Joseph, Miriam, Aaron and Moses as well. I believe the Pillars are a shadow teaching, in that this is what they explain to the lower levels, while the top levels learn of the power, the structure, and the reason for the Obelisks, both in the past and in near future days that are rapidly approaching.]


But yes original Theosophy was the work of multiple Hermetists of their own countries in traditional lineages. The connection with India was more or less the status quo for mankind until the Sassanian and Roman Empires, by religious doctrines, decimating what had developed through Greek syncretism.

[Always a pleasure to share ideas.]

[shaberon]

There is no relation between this breastplate and the Zodiac. [No, not that I could find. But I don't think that I suggested that there was.


No, you didn't say that. It was just an added remark. I expect you are quite aware that the Zodiac is not of great antiquity, and therefor an anachronism when retro-fitted where it does not belong. The twelve-ness of the year is easily established by the Moon. Not very much attention was even paid to the Planets, although this "set" may be slightly older than the Zodiac.


How do you mean Hermes was Zoroastrian? What would make it older than Akkadia?


By "Iranian", I mean Airya Vaeja, the region where Mazda Yasna is practiced. Its later or accreted texts are virulently anti-Jewish. The fact of Cyrus liberating them and centuries of equal treatment were due to not knowing much about what they believe and practice. They were just another one of scores in the One Family.


It sounds like you understand what I am saying about a Greek or Hermetic wave attempting to enter Latinized Europe several times over the centuries. This is relatively "new" and more reflective of the Ptolemaic Serapis cult compared to Zoroaster. It primarily developed in Harran, which was a sacred site for Naram-Sin of Akkadia around 2,200 B. C. E.. He makes one of the first theological points I have been able to discern. There is a divine pantheon, to which the king is related. And to this, he devotes the beginning of a Divine Dynasty including himself, he divinizes some of his family, and he excludes his cousin Rimush, whom he was succeeding.

In other words, he has invalidated Divine Right and expressed something more like "divine contract", which is breakable. And the status of "good" does not automatically always apply to one's family.

The Hermetists are working with a different milieu than the Zoroastrians, but let us not suppose this makes them enemies. Rather, a palatable way of transmitting something similar to the Christianized west. Around the 300s, the official institutions of all major religions are calling each other Satan, this itself being new and imposed.


The most complete Hermetic library was that of the Dolgoruki. HPB studied this as a child. By the time she was fifteen, Agrippa and others of that ilk had nothing left to teach her.

The basic difference between Theosophy and Golden Dawn is that Theosophy says to study classical traditions in their own actual light. Golden Dawn re-constructs things out of fragments and tells you to do ritual magic.


In my personal case, things work backwards. When I was young, I was averse to Morals and Dogma and Blavatskayan Theosophy, because they looked like college-level history lessons. I was naturally more interested in GD-type materials although I joined something else I can't remember the name of. Whereas I actually got Buddhism from the martial arts. And then when I found out the Theosophical Founders were the first western Buddhist converts, that got my attention. Colonel Olcott even learned our Visuddhimagga, which GD sort of swiped and made over in a way I don't like discussing.

The real story of Theosophy viewed as that type of Hermetic work followed by what came out after it at Kalimpong is staggering.

HPB was a Mason in the sense that one day John Yarker handed her an honorary certificate, she basically said "thanks" and put it in her pocket.


How did she have this advantage? There is a definite track. It may have been called "neo-Platonic", but, coming from the Medici Renaissance in Tuscany, to the Emperor in Prague, to Vienna, to Berlin, finally to Russia.

Consider a couple instances of the Enlightened Monarch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_absolutism):


Maria Theresa (1740–1780)

Catherine the Great of Russia (1762–1796)


And that none on that list are English. England has never been said to have an Enlightened Monarch or tried to. We never said England was a country we had taken. The final attempt was with Dion Fortune by the Zoroastrian B. P. Wadia, and she, too, went with Alpha and Omega of Golden Dawn.

Originally this scheme of influence worked through Malta, because of the Crusades, if one thinks of the legend of the demolished Templars, the Knights Hospitaller were similar. They had got into something foreign or non-Christian. This continued until they were defeated by Napoleon. The new one on the Italian mainland is something else.

Similarly to how Russia by force became the bastion of Greek Orthodox Christianity, it is also the repository of a western European arc of Hermetism, which otherwise has only a single living relic that I am aware of, the Order of St. Joachim in Swabia.

Our sympathy towards it is mainly because it allows for a type of spiritual path.



The Pillars of Heliopolis were commissioned by Senusret I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senusret_I) depending on which dating scheme is favored:


1971 BC to 1926 BC (1920 BC to 1875 BC)



A page like that would be more clear if the name were explained. It's a hypostasis. Helios ^and^ Apollo. Egypt is similar, Ra *and* someone. Mandean cosmology is again similar. What is the most persuasive thing to show you there is an invisible or unseen sun, that would be an eclipse. This principle is "scientific" but it also means the individual is part and parcel of solar energy, particularly the consciousness. This type of doctrine is throughout all of these systems, one way or another. Helios is the ordinary visible sun, and, because it depends on something else, there is an arc of transit between the two, in terms of knowledge, or, better, experience.

Having said that, the bias for the Pillars of Solomon is public knowledge, or popular accessibility, because it is in the Bible. This has been the main Masonic meditation since the 1500s. I think that is fair because early Jerusalem was a Place of Peace because it was El.

The difficulty as I understand it was Elijah started Monolatry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolatry). El having been cognate with anything needed around Canaan, now you get priests saying forbid it, actually, forbid everything.

Zoroaster has far more the tone that he is trying to overwhelm priests who honor deities that are malevolent, or devious, or some behavior that is obviously objectionable. Monolatry is unqualified -- get rid of everything that is there. That sounds like the way of a malevolent, devious deity.