Vehicles are way over priced

[mojo]

Hi all,
If you checked out prices you might be flabbergast like me. Hoping to acquire a newer model pick-up truck in 2025. There is no way I would buy brand new but something a year or two older. So far my mind is set on either a Toyota Tacoma or Chevy Colorado and maybe the best procedure is to buy from an private owner and not a car dealer as the price is insane right now. Also someone mentioned car bartering or haggling on the price is not as common at car dealerships today but not sure about that.

1ZSLsSGRlGk

qz2-2s5q40Q

[norman]

Yes, I've been studying all this as well, for a year.

I decided 5 months ago to stick with my 21 year old scrap value low tech car and spend a bit of money getting it journey-ready. It ticks all the common sense boxes of the present time except one, a painfully expensive one in my country, The road tax fee for it is shooting up, while they entice people towards data grabbing digital prison cars with free road tax or very low road tax according to model.

The silly big new prices on silly big cars seems to be more to do with government incentives in the industry. I can't say I've got it figured out yet but these latest reports show whatever they are up to might fall down around them soon. I hope so. BUT, a drastic drop in mobility by any method would make the bad guys very happy. If this takes out the big-brand dealerships, they may get what they want.

[Strat]

They don't make trucks like they used to. I don't blame the manufacturer as much as I do the consumer and to some extent government regulations. I have a 24 year old little truck and I'll never sell it. I haven't really done the math but I don't think this would be feasible to keep it this long if I couldn't do the repairs myself. It's reliable but certain things will need replacing no matter what vehicle it is.

I feel fortunate that when I was younger I was into turning wrenches so I learned a lot and I'm in a place where I can keep lots of tools and work on the truck whenever I need. It's got ~ 200k and it'll do another 200k if I want it to. The motor runs like a sewing machine, no check engine light or leaks. Cold A/C and hot heat. It came with a cassette player but I replaced it with a new head unit so now it has a ton of new features; GPS navigation (I'm not a fan of cell phone GPS), backup camera, sat radio, etc.

It's not a fast truck and some might consider it boring but I love it, it rocks. It gets the job done. My friends have brand new full size trucks and yet mine has a bigger bed at 6'. They just don't make them like this anymore. Many full size trucks these days are 4 cylinder turbo and lots of power which may sound good but it wont last long. 'Life of vehicle' now means 100k miles or less. They are trash. They look cool and they're fun but from my perspective they're just trash.

[Tyler Macmillan]

I had a 2012 RAM Cummins and it was paid off, basic Tradesman trim. The last model year before the the US started requiring diesel emission fluid. Took it in someplace to get a couple injectors rebuilt, and it was stolen off their lot overnight. Never got it back. Like a trout swimming back upstream to the plant in Mexico. Took the insurance payout plus an even higher amount, and ordered the same truck, 2022 model. It was stupidly expensive and took 5 months to have it built. I put a Ravelco kill switch in this one. :thumbsup:

[Losus4]

Lost my car over 10 years ago due to breakdown. At the time I was devastated and couldn't imagine how I'd survive without my car. Jumped on my bicycle shortly after and haven't looked back. In hindsight it was the best thing that could've happened. There's nowhere a bike and public transport won't get you. At a fraction of the cost, with minimal stress. If someone offered me a car now free of charge with all expenses paid, I still wouldn't take it. Driving is stressful, and the eff and blinding drivers do over time becomes part of their DNA.

[palehorse]

Agreed a bicycle is superb, we got a few here, never let us down. This is the truth.

But we also need a vehicle because we go back and forth to our land and it requires a 4x4 vehicle to get in there, since I never had enough to afford a new truck I end up buying one that was decades old, an ancient Toyota Hilux model, I paid a very modest price at the time, it served very well all these years but then, it comes the issues, the engine started to smoke a lot and then leaking (gasket was all compromised and internally was very unsound - probably bad timing chain jumping teeth), so I could not do long travels and in that case there is no point to keep the truck, what I had done like most people in this country, put a band-aid on it and sell, it had 420.XXX KM on the clock already, the engine needed a full overhaul in my opinion and that would cost me at least $2K + parts needed, easily $3K or $4K, with the little fix (a gasket redone = band-aid) I could sell it for basically the same price I purchased it years ago, that is the good thing about Toyotas, it retain market price for many years.

Toyota sold, and then early this year I bought a Mitsubishi Strada 4x4 manual transmission turbo diesel, these trucks are well know to be very resistant and extensively used in farms all over this country specially in hilly terrain, easy to maintain, any mechanic will do the work, parts relatively easy to find (OEM, aftermarket, genuine) and cheaper maintenance compared to Toyota, this specific truck has already 490.XXX on the clock, but the engine was recently rebuilt, so it drives like new, no black smoke, no noise, no overheating, no smoke, clean gears, smooth clutch, perfect chassis no rusty, the body needs some minor attention, since all bills was provided for the recent services made in this truck, I was happy with that, my test drive was super good, I never thought a 20 years old truck would drive that smooth, also this one came with 3 inches lifted and mud wheel (80% good), gps, manual turbo boost set in the cab, fog and work lights, front and rear bumpers are custom and reinforced for off road, full roof rack for carry stuffs. This truck is fully equipped for long travels including off-road and I paid cheaper than my bare bones Toyota. So it was a good deal for me.

There is cheap vehicles out there just have to search deep, go in the country and you will be surprised how many older vehicles with very low mileage still there available, buy it from a family, usually single owner.

I have no intention to sell this vehicle, unless it gives me too much headache in the future, but when you own a vehicle you must be read to learn how to fix at least the easiest things that does not require a lift or highly specialized tools. Things like changing fluids and oils you can save good bucks by doing it yourself, no secret. Also battery and electrical work isn't that hard to take care.. the next thing I will be working on mine will be the body, I got little rusty on the doors, bottom corners.. I will do the work myself.


Regarding new trucks, their lifetime is much shorter than old trucks. The newest truck I ever had was an Isuzu Dmax 2008, excellent truck, very economic, never had any issue, I sold because I needed the money, otherwise would still be with me. If I get disappointed with my Mitsubishi (hopefully not), I would sell it and get another Isuzu without thinking twice. I would not own Toyota anymore, unless I find those LN models in great shape, they were built in 1986 (best year if I am not wrong but very hard to find).

I paid under $4K for this Mitsubishi Strada and in the occasion I found trucks like Nissan 4x4 even cheaper. Unfortunately Ford and Chevrolet in Asia are not well built like in America, the Colorado sold in Thailand, the old models used the same plant used to build the Isuzu, so they are good models until 2012, after that Colorado here had declined turning a lot of buyers away and in 2020 they halted production in Thailand. So here is best to stick with Japanese brands.

An observation from a mechanic that owns a Toyota with more than 1 million on the clock, he said if maintenance are kept religiously your truck will last much longer than that, usually a big signal of a vehicle dying is the internal timing chain, after 500.000KM is mandatory to open the engine and check cylinder heads, head gasket, engine block (look for crack, if found then trash it, can't be fixed), oil pan, oil pump, the many manifolds, etc.. this service usually is what is called overhaul or rectifying the engine, so if there is need do it, but like in my case, if the service cost more than get another vehicle, then it is better just to get another one and sell the old one. I don't get attached to vehicle, for me they are just a necessary tool. Also if you are a mechanic or understand it well, it would be much cheaper to keep it and do the fixes yourself.

[Tyler Macmillan]

Good points on bikes. I used mine a lot this summer. If we were staying for a few days in a small town or campground with too many road vehicles. Or even just getting around our property to do chores with irrigation water. If the highway to our nearest town had fewer safety hazards, I'd use it for those trips also.

[norman]

Thinking further . . . . . .


Yes, I've been studying all this as well, for a year.

I decided 5 months ago to stick with my 21 year old scrap value low tech car and spend a bit of money getting it journey-ready. It ticks all the common sense boxes of the present time except one, a painfully expensive one in my country, The road tax fee for it is shooting up, while they entice people towards data grabbing digital prison cars with free road tax or very low road tax according to model.

The silly big new prices on silly big cars seems to be more to do with government incentives in the industry. I can't say I've got it figured out yet but these latest reports show whatever they are up to might fall down around them soon. I hope so. BUT, a drastic drop in mobility by any method would make the bad guys very happy. If this takes out the big-brand dealerships, they may get what they want.


Am I going over the top nuts with this ?

We already know that big corporations have been forced, through the pressure/blackmail the bankers/WEF put on them to do the political correct stuff, right ?

What if, all those big hefty impossibly expensive trucks on the sales lots are NOT MEANT TO GET SOLD to ordinary ( patriot ) citizens at all. The prices could be jacked deliberately to make sure they pile up in the same way military kit piles up ahead of a war campaign ?

Those big strong trucks look to my eyes like a stock pile waiting for the crooked government to buy the lot and fill them with illegal foreign soldiers. Do you remember those images of ISIS in Iraq and ( I think ) Syria a decade ago in those long trains of brand new Toyota pickups ?

Holy sht, I'll stop there, and wait for it to sink in.

[Listkov]

I remember when it was commonly accepted that a **** box of a used car costs 500$. It'd be ****, of course, but it'd run.

Big part of it's general inflation. If you collect anything and look at the listing prices, everything is going up (in terms of dollars). Something staying the same price, like appliances or household goods usually means there were either massive improvements in the manufacturing process that, in another time, would have slashed the price, like a new industrial revolution. Or they've been slashing the quality. Like when you buy a tin of something that's the same size and same price, but you notice it's only about three quarters as full as last time.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Here in UK the car retail trade has changed massively since covid. Whilst all garages were closed during that time the demand went up between 15 - 20 % when we all re opened. Cars were selling well over book price. Once the demand had been met the prices came down slightly. All the major dealerships decided to sell behind retail to keep demand going. Now most of us sell around 97% retail so there is no room for bartering, the cars are priced to sell, not like the old days when we had to haggle to close a deal. That’s the price take it or leave it. Also everything is now so highly regulated that the whole process takes so much longer so impossible to do big numbers per executive so more staff for less numbers. Fun and games.

[DeDukshyn]

It's even worse in Canada ... I'm still driving my '03 Honda Pilot with ~440,000 kms on it ... still runs fine and for less than half the amount of a monthly new vehicle payment I can afford to keep it running almost no matter what might need to be replaced down the road. Needs a timing belt and new suspension, but still runs well as is, so no big rush on those items. Had to replace the alternator recently but the engine is still in amazing condition with no oil burned or leaked.

Even the used market here in Canada is ridiculous for pricing ... I've seen a 90's Ford F250 with the 7.3 diesel - good shape but buddy was asking $26,000 for it ... insane.

As far as haggling on a new car goes, pick your car, then find multiple dealerships and make them fight between each other for the sale.

[BMJ]

Oh What A Feeling Toyota
Toyota are very reliable and go very high miles, car wizard is a honest mechanic that gives his point of view here on the best and worse cars to buy.

The Car Wizard's BEST & WORST cars to buy!

l8OIt0URmu0

Link: https://www.youtube.com/c/CarWizard/videos

[meat suit]

Interesting that some of ou guys talk about 400k + milage on vehicles..
I have a 30 year old mercedes camper with 450km on the clock.
4 litre straight diesel with lousy performance and only 18mpg which is considered totally unexeptable in this part of the world.

Anything less than 30 mpg will bankrupt you here🤣
Its off the road and it will not get back on it until it goes Mot and tax exempt in 2033🥳

My daughter is buying her first car soon after passing her test and there is plenty of choice for 1.1-1.6 litre sized cars between £1000 and £3000.



the british isles have a pretty good second hand market for vehicles as we are the only place on the continent that drives on the left.
So vehicles tend to stay here till scrap time, rather than being snapped up by other car hungry places.

[WhiteFeather]

Hi all,
If you checked out prices you might be flabbergast like me. Hoping to acquire a newer model pick-up truck in 2025. There is no way I would buy brand new but something a year or two older. So far my mind is set on either a Toyota Tacoma or Chevy Colorado and maybe the best procedure is to buy from an private owner and not a car dealer as the price is insane right now. Also someone mentioned car bartering or haggling on the price is not as common at car dealerships today but not sure about that.

1ZSLsSGRlGk

qz2-2s5q40Q

You may wanna price a Ford Maverick

[Le Chat]

we are the only place on the continent that drives on the left.

Don't forget the Republic of Ireland, Malta and Cyprus!

[palehorse]

Thinking further . . . . . .


Yes, I've been studying all this as well, for a year.

I decided 5 months ago to stick with my 21 year old scrap value low tech car and spend a bit of money getting it journey-ready. It ticks all the common sense boxes of the present time except one, a painfully expensive one in my country, The road tax fee for it is shooting up, while they entice people towards data grabbing digital prison cars with free road tax or very low road tax according to model.

The silly big new prices on silly big cars seems to be more to do with government incentives in the industry. I can't say I've got it figured out yet but these latest reports show whatever they are up to might fall down around them soon. I hope so. BUT, a drastic drop in mobility by any method would make the bad guys very happy. If this takes out the big-brand dealerships, they may get what they want.


Am I going over the top nuts with this ?

We already know that big corporations have been forced, through the pressure/blackmail the bankers/WEF put on them to do the political correct stuff, right ?

What if, all those big hefty impossibly expensive trucks on the sales lots are NOT MEANT TO GET SOLD to ordinary ( patriot ) citizens at all. The prices could be jacked deliberately to make sure they pile up in the same way military kit piles up ahead of a war campaign ?

Those big strong trucks look to my eyes like a stock pile waiting for the crooked government to buy the lot and fill them with illegal foreign soldiers. Do you remember those images of ISIS in Iraq and ( I think ) Syria a decade ago in those long trains of brand new Toyota pickups ?

Holy sht, I'll stop there, and wait for it to sink in.


lol
but there is some fundament on it.
lots of those toyotas left Thailand to Africa and then somehow end up in the middle east. it was not brand new, but like 10 years old trucks with low mileage.


~~~~~~~

The OEM/Genuine/Aftermarket parts is absolutely ridiculous, I said that before and I say it again now, the whole thing is a huge SCAM. Some brands like BMW is totally crap, I can't understand how how how is possible to a ****ty car like that cost a fortune, and the market for parts, did you ever venture to check it? that explains why these ****ty BMW only pile up in the junky yards around the world. The Chinese made aftermarket parts are so fragile, that it will last for 1/4 of the time of a genuine part, and they use it in buses carrying lots of people. The genuine or OEM parts are very expensive, they have little difference between, one got the brand on it and warrant, other than that nothing else, usually same factory are responsible to make both.

Most old car when break down, it cost absurd to replace parts depending on what is going on, and that is why most of the mechanics are a bunch of bitches that can't fix a damn thing, so their only skill is to replace parts.. it is a pit because back then I remember going with my father to the mechanic to fix his Maverick, YES FIX IT, so it took time, but parts were fixed and not only replaced like today. As I said most mechanics today are a bunch of bitches, they should be ashamed, and they know that, because back then they would engage into fixing things and that justify paying, but today they want to make money on parts too, so they always want to buy the parts for the customers to put a margin on it, and then charge a little fee to change the part on your car. You got a taste how the bitch party works. I do not trust any of them and usually I am very grumpy with them, no respect, I have been dealing with asses like that for a long time.

[Strat]

Most old car when break down, it cost absurd to replace parts depending on what is going on, and that is why most of the mechanics are a bunch of bitches that can't fix a damn thing, so their only skill is to replace parts.. it is a pit because back then I remember going with my father to the mechanic to fix his Maverick, YES FIX IT, so it took time, but parts were fixed and not only replaced like today. As I said most mechanics today are a bunch of bitches, they should be ashamed, and they know that, because back then they would engage into fixing things and that justify paying, but today they want to make money on parts too, so they always want to buy the parts for the customers to put a margin on it, and then charge a little fee to change the part on your car. You got a taste how the bitch party works. I do not trust any of them and usually I am very grumpy with them, no respect, I have been dealing with asses like that for a long time.

It must be a regional thing, this certainly isn't the case here. People have the same complaints here but it's not always true.

Times have changed. Shops can still do the work but it will cost you a lot more money. We don't rebuild radiators, batteries, starters, alternators etc anymore. It's not that it's hard it's that it's more affordable to the customer to buy a new radiator than it is to have the shop take the time to rebuild it. And yeah some can't do it because schools are teaching you how to use scan tools that cost thousands of dollars. It's more relevant. Everyone is always suspicious of the mechanics already so it's lose-lose for them. If they rebuild it the cost will be through the roof and the customer would say how it's unbelievable that the shop charged so much more than the other shop... Well the other shop is just replacing it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

In rural places and developing countries they rebuild because they have to. I admire it actually, it's really cool. But people don't want that. Well they say they do but then when they see the cost they think otherwise. Generally speaking.

When I was taking auto repair classes they tried to teach us how to deal with old timers and people who want to tell you how to do things even though they don't have any experience. For example ball joints these days are often 'sealed for life' (they can't be greased) and nobody wants to hear how you're going to use bondo because they've heard about people slapping in bondo as a shoddy repair. Bondo is damn near mandatory, but you don't glob it on you're supposed to use a thin layer after pulling out a ding. And for the ball joints when old timers (or the other customer I just described) demands to have their ball joints greased you just swipe a bit of grease on the bottom so if they go out in the parking lot and check they can feel that and be satisfied.

Also comparing a mechanic of today to a mechanic of back then is like apples and oranges. Modern vehicles are not something the average person can work on. Pop the hood on the Maverick your father had and pop the hood of a modern car today and it's totally different.

I give the benefit of the doubt in life. Of course there are lots of mechanics who screw people over. Like instead of pressing out suspension components on a control arm they just buy a new control arm with the components pre-installed and charge you shop time for work they didn't do. That being said it depends on the shop you go to. I believe this is more prominent with chain store mechanic shops. If you find a local guy with a good reputation you shouldn't fight with him or your hurting yourself in the long run.

I do agree that most modern vehicles are trash, see my post above. Especially high end cars. Frankly I think the people that buy those are the bitches, they perpetuate the problem for people like me. Mercedes, BMW, etc (frankly all modern makes) have zero incentive to make reliable user friendly cars like they used to. The only thing high end cars are good for is parking them in your driveway as bragging rights. Other than that they're poorly designed trash. Even Toyota changed for the worse IMO.

The aftermarket in USA is absolutely fantastic. OEM quality is not the same as aftermarket, I'm just speaking from my personal experience. I do believe you that your experience is different. I just want to point this out so that others can save themselves from a major headache. If you buy a cheap ball joint then your wheel will literally fall off as your driving whereas OEM or different companies have a proven track record. This is a specific issue with my Toyota. I buy certain parts OEM (again, ball joints, sometimes I go with MOOG). I agree it depends what you drive and the part you need (supply/demand) but speaking for myself, parts are a breeze to find. I do agree Chinese parts are trash, they're great paper weights but not useful for anything else really. I bought door handles from China as a sort of experiment. They lasted about a year. The OEM lasted 23 years and looked great until they **** the bed. For my Toyota I can find great parts that will last a long time easily. If you do your own work in the USA go to rockautoparts.com. It's fantastic.

[palehorse]

Most old car when break down, it cost absurd to replace parts depending on what is going on, ...

It must be a regional thing, this certainly isn't the case here. People have the same complaints here but it's not always true.


I guess, I am in Thailand, so the experience I wrote is related to this country, I lived in different areas in the North, Central and South, in Bangkok I would say it is cheaper to service a car, but that does not mean better service, because in this country most people has no formal education, they "learn on the job", big companies they train their staff, but the training has nothing to do with fixing parts, even though the refurbishing market here is huge, so someone is doing the fixings but they are not the mechanics.


Times have changed. Shops can still do the work but it will cost you a lot more money. We don't rebuild radiators, batteries, starters, alternators etc anymore. It's not that it's hard it's that it's more affordable to the customer to buy a new radiator than it is to have the shop take the time to rebuild it. And yeah some can't do it because schools are teaching you how to use scan tools that cost thousands of dollars. It's more relevant. Everyone is always suspicious of the mechanics already so it's lose-lose for them. If they rebuild it the cost will be through the roof and the customer would say how it's unbelievable that the shop charged so much more than the other shop... Well the other shop is just replacing it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.


Yes we still do rebuild radiators, alternators, as I said above there is a market for refurbished, maybe in a developed country that is a thing of the past, but here in Thailand we still have it specially when the original part is not producing anymore. Here is a real world example that happened to me months ago, I got a bad "pressure fuel pump", my truck is 20 years old and this model stopped been produced back in the 2005, so new parts for it are not very easy to find, aftermarket parts are available but they are made in China and Taiwan and seems like mechanics here hate those parts too, I am very aware of their ****ty quality so I won't risk a aftermarket fuel pump, in that case I have to rely in the refurbished ones, or import from Australia, US or Japan the genuine part which BTW cost at least twice the price of the refurbished one. Back in 2015 I had a bad alternator, I went to the mechanic and he showed me a big box full of it, he said when he had the time he would fix all of it, but that would take a few days, so when customer volume was low, he was fixing things, this was the only mechanic I came across in this country with that mindset, so not all are bitches like I said before, I kind of generalized it when I said that. My toyota radiator had rusty on it and was leaking (old models were not alluminum like the new ones), so I drained it, removed it, carried with to the welder, he closed the holes, cost me $5 in the occasion, radiator back into the toyota and it lasted until I sold it. A new one would cost me $120 at least.

Another situation that I was presented by the mechanic, he said my turbo intercooler is no good and I should change it, however I got no issues when driving, no weird noise, no thing, after asking a tsunami of questions to the mechanic, he finally said why he want to change the turbo intercooler, my truck has it placed on top of the engine, it is the rally master version which are not produced anymore, so there is no new parts available, but mechanics here they use custom parts made in Thailand for turbo intercoolers, you can see it everywhere here, a lot of vehicles are modified, they usually place it right in front of the radiator, they say it is better for air intake, but mine has the hood air intake (the vent) and it works well, so I won't change it, because it is not essential and also the mechanic is basically saying the manufacturer is full of **** and designed it wrong and he want to correct their mistake?? lol I don't buy this kind of crap.

I agree today schools only teaches what is in the big agenda, so we can't fight that, the only way is to gain knowledge and do it ourselves or get luck and find a good mechanic.




In rural places and developing countries they rebuild because they have to. I admire it actually, it's really cool. But people don't want that. Well they say they do but then when they see the cost they think otherwise. Generally speaking.


exactly. But I am not that person, I would wait a week, a month in order to get the part fixed for a fair price because obviously it can't cost more than a new one, that wold not make any sense.


When I was taking auto repair classes they tried to teach us how to deal with old timers and people who want to tell you how to do things even though they don't have any experience. For example ball joints these days are often 'sealed for life' (they can't be greased) and nobody wants to hear how you're going to use bondo because they've heard about people slapping in bondo as a shoddy repair. Bondo is damn near mandatory, but you don't glob it on you're supposed to use a thin layer after pulling out a ding. And for the ball joints when old timers (or the other customer I just described) demands to have their ball joints greased you just swipe a bit of grease on the bottom so if they go out in the parking lot and check they can feel that and be satisfied.


I truly understand your point, but in my case I am not trying to step of their toes, the problem here i can smell BS, so when I see it my alert goes off and I will argue and they hate that because I was supposed to go along like most people without critical thinking. Show me you have a point and I will agree with that but come to me telling I have to change this and that and write down a big bill, that does not work, I will never handle easy money to people like that, will have to explain in details and I will ask questions if I don't understand, I will take the time to do research and learn too, so as I mentioned, time isn't the issue for me, most people accept all the BS because they are running against time, so they need it done, mechanics knows that and they take advantage.
Grease the ball joints :laughs:


Also comparing a mechanic of today to a mechanic of back then is like apples and oranges. Modern vehicles are not something the average person can work on. Pop the hood on the Maverick your father had and pop the hood of a modern car today and it's totally different.


absolutely, but even in my case, I have an old vehicle, I don't need a modern mechanic to work on my ancient truck. Like the last time the mechanic gave me his credentials and he enphasized how good he was with EV, could do programming too, and so on... I look him in the face and asked, do you see en EV here? This is my 20 years old truck, mostly mechanic, little electronics.. so I need an old school mechanic not a modern one.


I give the benefit of the doubt in life. Of course there are lots of mechanics who screw people over. Like instead of pressing out suspension components on a control arm they just buy a new control arm with the components pre-installed and charge you shop time for work they didn't do. That being said it depends on the shop you go to. I believe this is more prominent with chain store mechanic shops. If you find a local guy with a good reputation you shouldn't fight with him or your hurting yourself in the long run.


That is exactly my type of hunt, I would not fight him if he just do an honest work, but not what I had experienced so far, it is complicated when comes to deal with mechanics, I always do my homework to learn exactly what my problem is before just agree with the service and that seems to piss them off a bit, because they expect me to trust them right away, I guess time will help as they earn some trust from me.


I do agree that most modern vehicles are trash, see my post above. Especially high end cars. Frankly I think the people that buy those are the bitches, they perpetuate the problem for people like me. Mercedes, BMW, etc (frankly all modern makes) have zero incentive to make reliable user friendly cars like they used to. The only thing high end cars are good for is parking them in your driveway as bragging rights. Other than that they're poorly designed trash. Even Toyota changed for the worse IMO.


Yes!!! I won't buy any new vehicle ever, having ancient ones is already trouble, I can't imagine dealing with EV or Hybrid vehicles, I heard so many horror stories. I know a guy here he got a Volvo sedan, it is 3 or 4 years old with a high mileage already, he traveled a lot so the car one day just stopped, won't start, he took to the service in Bangkok because here in my area nobody dare to touch that thing, he said the price to replace all the expired parts would cost the equivalent of a good used car like Toyota corolla or similar, so he parked the Volvo and he intend to sell it for parts now, for whatever it worth.


The aftermarket in USA is absolutely fantastic. OEM quality is not the same as aftermarket, I'm just speaking from my personal experience. I do believe you that your experience is different. I just want to point this out so that others can save themselves from a major headache. If you buy a cheap ball joint then your wheel will literally fall off as your driving whereas OEM or different companies have a proven track record. This is a specific issue with my Toyota. I buy certain parts OEM (again, ball joints, sometimes I go with MOOG). I agree it depends what you drive and the part you need (supply/demand) but speaking for myself, parts are a breeze to find. I do agree Chinese parts are trash, they're great paper weights but not useful for anything else really. I bought door handles from China as a sort of experiment. They lasted about a year. The OEM lasted 23 years and looked great until they **** the bed. For my Toyota I can find great parts that will last a long time easily. If you do your own work in the USA go to rockautoparts.com. It's fantastic.


I learned that, mechanics here get parts from Australia, US and Japan, anything else is Chinese or Taiwanese and they dislike it, as they say I would stick with Thai Made parts instead or refurbished ones, but sometimes not everything can be fixed you will need a replacement, in that case I am pretty much okay.

My issue here is avoiding scammers and all these people looking for quick profit, because as I mentioned most people has no critical thinking and they just pay for what they were asked and that put everyone that question in a bad position, like I am the problem now with them because I just don't go along with the stupidity out there.


I am thinking to learn mechanics more in depth in 2025, learn how to fix common problems and focus on Diesel engine only which is what I have, so that would help me a lot, and things that I could not do for lack of correct tools or lack of a lift, I could go with mechanics, but showing that I understand what is going on is another ball game. Just to say I agree with most of what you have said Strat, you are correct, but mechanics behave different from places to places, it depends on a lot of things, like formal education, time on the job (experience), and so on..

[Edit]
I forgot to mention that here in this country they do "inject" with grease those boots around the ball joint, they also do it with CV joints if the boot or the joint itself is not damaged of course, probably just a work around.

[Ratszinger]

I didn't know it when I ordered it for the wife but the 01 and early 02 Jeep Liberty models like ours are perhaps one of the best kept secrets in all of vehicles. I think they call them Cherokees over in the UK and I'm not sure that what I say here about American made ones applies to you all anyways because I don't know that the agency that made Jeep lower the vehicle in their biggest production year here ever changed the ones made for you but here that threw the wrench in the works where so many were built badly after Mar of 02 that it gave the entire model line a bad rep.

Before this it was on it's way to winning Truck of the Year but one of the test drivers took the Test Liberty out like ours with a low tire pressure on the front and rolled the vehicle blaming it on design flaw rather than the tire pressure. The political pressure to lower the vehicle was great and Jeep did and it was later discovered to be the tire. But the damage was done and Jeep had already begun making them lowered with a lower center of gravity.

All those built after ours or all those built after Mar of 02 are a completely different vehicle than all those built before April of 02. They have a lot more problems than those before them that were the tried and true thoroughly testing it before it was released to the public, and ironing out all the bugs.
The ones built before that are higher in ground clearance and referred to as "Pre-Lowered" KJ Liberty models are particularly sought by those that know the vehicles. I know families that have two and three of them all made before March of 02. I also know people that bought one when or around when we bought ours because they saw it and ordered ones like it. In every case they are a better vehicle.

There are guys out there that seek these out over all other models because if you get the correct traction package it actually has a better traction than was ever offered on the Wrangler or the Cherokee before it. It has a Trac lock so the four wheels kick in and boy does it go then! If it's the better traction package it will have five selections on the 4x4 shift selector not 4. You want the one with 5 and you use full time and it will kick the front wheels into gear with a half turn spin of the rear wheels. Best traction in a Jeep we've ever had and we had a Cherokee fetish before we got this Liberty.
Anyway because any of the ones built in 01 and up to Mar31 of 02 do not have any of the issues the other model years have they to some are the best kept secrets in used cars. The lower ball joints are an issue with the others because Jeep changed the angle of the things and the stress point is in different places now once lowerd. Ours never had that problem.

The draw back is that all those built from May of 01 to Mar of 02 are all the same for parts. If you owned a 02 built in Oct of 01 like us and you bought an 02 built in June of 02 or even April of 02 none of the parts are the same. Even the engine mounts and the angle are different so nothing is reliable for use as parts even though both are 02 models.
Anyway, due to the bad rap these things got in all the other model years they are bargains in pricing compared to other vehicles and now that you know which ones to look for and to ask if they'd kindly check the drivers door for when it was built, well, you can find you a low miles clean Jeep that typically gives the owners very little problems.

I have had ours for 23 going on 24 years now. Linda has had hers just as long and hers was built in Nov of 01 and we both drive it daily! Sucks some gas but its a Jeep and it has that Jeep feel, that zippy quick appeal pulling out and stops on a dime, visibility is second to none and it can turn as tight as circle as anything I've ever owned. We love ours. Compared to the new ones from Stellantis that are lemons these Daimler Jeeps are the ones to own. Best deal in used cars. Seriously!

[BMJ]

Most old car when break down, it cost absurd to replace parts depending on what is going on, and that is why most of the mechanics are a bunch of bitches that can't fix a damn thing, so their only skill is to replace parts.. it is a pit because back then I remember going with my father to the mechanic to fix his Maverick, YES FIX IT, so it took time, but parts were fixed and not only replaced like today. As I said most mechanics today are a bunch of bitches, they should be ashamed, and they know that, because back then they would engage into fixing things and that justify paying, but today they want to make money on parts too, so they always want to buy the parts for the customers to put a margin on it, and then charge a little fee to change the part on your car. You got a taste how the bitch party works. I do not trust any of them and usually I am very grumpy with them, no respect, I have been dealing with asses like that for a long time.

It must be a regional thing, this certainly isn't the case here. People have the same complaints here but it's not always true.

Times have changed. Shops can still do the work but it will cost you a lot more money. We don't rebuild radiators, batteries, starters, alternators etc anymore. It's not that it's hard it's that it's more affordable to the customer to buy a new radiator than it is to have the shop take the time to rebuild it. And yeah some can't do it because schools are teaching you how to use scan tools that cost thousands of dollars. It's more relevant. Everyone is always suspicious of the mechanics already so it's lose-lose for them. If they rebuild it the cost will be through the roof and the customer would say how it's unbelievable that the shop charged so much more than the other shop... Well the other shop is just replacing it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

In rural places and developing countries they rebuild because they have to. I admire it actually, it's really cool. But people don't want that. Well they say they do but then when they see the cost they think otherwise. Generally speaking.

When I was taking auto repair classes they tried to teach us how to deal with old timers and people who want to tell you how to do things even though they don't have any experience. For example ball joints these days are often 'sealed for life' (they can't be greased) and nobody wants to hear how you're going to use bondo because they've heard about people slapping in bondo as a shoddy repair. Bondo is damn near mandatory, but you don't glob it on you're supposed to use a thin layer after pulling out a ding. And for the ball joints when old timers (or the other customer I just described) demands to have their ball joints greased you just swipe a bit of grease on the bottom so if they go out in the parking lot and check they can feel that and be satisfied.

Also comparing a mechanic of today to a mechanic of back then is like apples and oranges. Modern vehicles are not something the average person can work on. Pop the hood on the Maverick your father had and pop the hood of a modern car today and it's totally different.

I give the benefit of the doubt in life. Of course there are lots of mechanics who screw people over. Like instead of pressing out suspension components on a control arm they just buy a new control arm with the components pre-installed and charge you shop time for work they didn't do. That being said it depends on the shop you go to. I believe this is more prominent with chain store mechanic shops. If you find a local guy with a good reputation you shouldn't fight with him or your hurting yourself in the long run.

I do agree that most modern vehicles are trash, see my post above. Especially high end cars. Frankly I think the people that buy those are the bitches, they perpetuate the problem for people like me. Mercedes, BMW, etc (frankly all modern makes) have zero incentive to make reliable user friendly cars like they used to. The only thing high end cars are good for is parking them in your driveway as bragging rights. Other than that they're poorly designed trash. Even Toyota changed for the worse IMO.

The aftermarket in USA is absolutely fantastic. OEM quality is not the same as aftermarket, I'm just speaking from my personal experience. I do believe you that your experience is different. I just want to point this out so that others can save themselves from a major headache. If you buy a cheap ball joint then your wheel will literally fall off as your driving whereas OEM or different companies have a proven track record. This is a specific issue with my Toyota. I buy certain parts OEM (again, ball joints, sometimes I go with MOOG). I agree it depends what you drive and the part you need (supply/demand) but speaking for myself, parts are a breeze to find. I do agree Chinese parts are trash, they're great paper weights but not useful for anything else really. I bought door handles from China as a sort of experiment. They lasted about a year. The OEM lasted 23 years and looked great until they **** the bed. For my Toyota I can find great parts that will last a long time easily. If you do your own work in the USA go to rockautoparts.com. It's fantastic.

Just some additional thoughts.

I agree with what Strat has to say.

Regarding Mercedes they actually built in wear and tear into their parts because parts & servicing needed the profits.

Buy good quality parts, I had a Bosch starter motor on my car that lasted for 15 years I decided to try a cheap chinese one and it lasted two weeks. So ended up doubling up on the labour and price.

Regarding OEM parts check the part numbers you might find a different car maker sells the same part for alot less ( hence the reason I posted the below video as an example of this ).

Also if you have never tried repairing your own car give it a go. Get a manual for your car and tools and attempt the repair, just remember over tightening bolts and screws doesn't work tighten them to specifications using torque wrench, if you want a little extra security apply a dot of non permanent Loctite to the thread of the bolt, screw or nut before fitting it.

Beyond saving yourself money on labour you know the job is properly done and I personally found it therapeutic to get under the car and do my own repairs.

Don't be intimidated by the process like anything the more you practice the better you get at it.

Remember if you jack up the car make sure you place wooden blocks or car stands on the frame work under the car to keep the car stable, lowering the jack slowly to take the weight. This is not advice just my point of view.

Also for more detailed manuals you might be able to buy a electronic manual on ebay or similiar that cover absolutely every aspect of your car repairs and in detail for maybe 20 dollars.

The other crappy car I would avoid is Alfa Romeo, parts availability is iffy, and they aren't sports cars like they used be, probably the last affordable ones where the 1980's GTV, currently the 4C but that is out of the range of most peoples pockets.

Heres two example which illustrate the point about buying alternate brand car parts and also doing it yourself.

A $4,500 inspection ends up costing nothing.

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A $10 VW part which is the same as the Bugatti part, they compare the OEM part to the VW part at 23 minutes.

T1NF1ilQCKE

[palehorse]

I forgot to mention the most ridiculous expensive maintenance for vehicles that you will ever find is for Jaguars! That explain why it is only used by Royals and the wealthy people. I say that because someone I know bought a Jaguar in Thailand, he used it for few months and then it burst into flames, engine halted so it went for service (only in Bangkok), the mechanics asked him something close to 5.000 USD,to replace some part, I don't remember what was the cause of fire, but was something with leaking fuel or malfunctioning fuel pump, I really don't remember, what I know it had to disassemble the entire engine, lift out the engine bay, replace the whatever it was and put the engine back and all fitments back in place, huge job. So imagine something extremely unpractical to work with. Jaguars! I think that explain why the second hand of this brand has basically little value. Jaguar parts cost too much and almost nothing else will fit in there, by 2026 Jaguar will be fully into EV, so no more diesel or gasoline engines will be produced by this company, for those who got Jaguar get rid of it asap, sell per kilogram if you have to, sourcing parts is already a problem and it will only get worse.

[Denise/Dizi]

It's even worse in Canada ... I'm still driving my '03 Honda Pilot with ~440,000 kms on it ... still runs fine and for less than half the amount of a monthly new vehicle payment I can afford to keep it running almost no matter what might need to be replaced down the road. Needs a timing belt and new suspension, but still runs well as is, so no big rush on those items. Had to replace the alternator recently but the engine is still in amazing condition with no oil burned or leaked.

Even the used market here in Canada is ridiculous for pricing ... I've seen a 90's Ford F250 with the 7.3 diesel - good shape but buddy was asking $26,000 for it ... insane.

As far as haggling on a new car goes, pick your car, then find multiple dealerships and make them fight between each other for the sale.

The best way to get the best price on a new vehicle is to track down the truck delivering them to the lot. My mother once dated one of those drivers, and they have the paperwork that tells them what the vehicles invoice for when delivered. By having those numbers you are better equipped to haggle at year end, for the newest model before the next year model takes priority.

By having this information, you are able to offer them a price that clears them to not lose anything, yet gain space and the finances to replace that vehicle with a new one, and the dealers for the most part, jump on those sales. It's a win win for them, they had the stock for a year, and lost nothing... Gaining $ for new inventory, and making room at the same time.

His sons as a result, all were driving brand new vehicles at a fraction of the price of those buying them as consumers entering the lot "unarmed." I still couldn't afford one, and refused to pay that much for a new vehicle and have never bought a new vehicle... It's ridiculous...

[norman]

I don't agree with everything this guy says but we're definitely on the same page.

I think a lot of people must be because I've been searching for an affordable/bargain pre data-snooping small practical car that's not body rotten for a year and found nothing that ticks all my boxes better than the one I've already got.

I started looking a year ago because mine threw every kind of nightmare it could at me for about 5 weeks and I hated it so much I wanted it gone. I still have it. It was a scrap value swap with my brother when my previous car failed the MOT for underbody rust rot.

This guy doesn't have any conspiracy theories about why new cars are so stupidly expensive but he certainly agrees with the OP of this thread, and has a whole lot more moans and gripes about what the car manufacturing industry has become.

He's not even a Boomer, he's a Gen X.

Why I Will NEVER Buy a NEW Car AGAIN - And Maybe You Shouldn't Either | TheCarGuys.tv

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[Strat]

This post is for the gearheads here. I'm replacing damn near everything on the front end of my truck. Not everything needs to be replaced but working on automobiles is cathartic and it's nice to be in a position where I can do all this at once. In the future I might be in a place where I can't work on the truck so I figure why not do it all now. I'll keep the parts that still have some life left in them, maybe eBay them.

Nearly everything you see in the pic will be replaced or fixed in some way. The frame may look rough but it's in fantastic condition which is great considering this truck had a recall due to them rotting over time. With proper care (like I'm doing now) it won't be a problem.

I posted the last pic as an example of something I was mentioning earlier. This is the bottom side of a ball joint, and the little nipple thingy is called a 'zerk fitting'. Most modern cars don't have these and they are 'sealed for life.' I don't like sealed for life, I prefer serviceable parts. I'm also not a fan of long mileage oil changes, I call bs. This is debated a lot in the automotive world but I suppose that's for another thread.

These parts are very easy to come by and all have warranties. The only thing I bought OEM was the lower ball joints. Depending on the vehicle this isn't necessary but as mentioned previously, Toyota did a poor job on this design and aftermarket ball joints fail quickly. They're often plastic where's Toyota's are metal.

Anyway, here's some pics:

[Denise/Dizi]

The ball joints on the Toyota's are indeed junk... And I would replace them before they fail.. We had TWO Toyota's that suffered the same fate... The first being on the Tundra... It collapsed, folded the fender, and the entire front end had to be repaired and painted once it was repaired... Fortunately the vehicle wasn't moving too fast when it collapsed... As it is lifted and could have rolled.. The second was on our Sequoia... It too failed just as the Tundra had...

We have 3 Toyota's at the moment, two Sequoias, and the Tundra... We live in an area where we get plenty of snow in the winter, and we like to offroad... The third one is mostly around just in case one goes down, as we are so busy, there isn't much time to fix things should something fail. But the nice thing about them is that they can be fixed quite easily, and they seem to last forever when someone takes the time to do so...

As a result our oldest son is now a Toyota fan as well, and has 2 - 4 runners and a Tacoma... One is being turned into a rock crawler... So it isn't meant for the road...

My favorite however? Is my 67' Chevelle... Everyone loves a hotrod right? And those are easy to work on... She has been waiting to be restored for years, and it is finally time to work on her... I can't wait to get her back on the road... And because I live in a very small community, the gas prices won't be horrible for me, as I rarely have to drive more than 5 miles to get anything I need...

[norman]

This guy is quite a comic. He's a real veteran car mechanic but he's mostly a youtuber who's sense of humour get's him the clicks rather than providing how-to videos.

No, Tesla is not shutting down, but the Cyber Truck might be, and Tesla cars in general are aging faster than bread.

Tesla Just Announced “We’re Shutting Down”

WnyLouMXt-o

[palehorse]

Nice work Strat! I am sure it will last long time for the coming years, the control arm looks very sturdy.

~~~

Recently had done lots of rebuilt in my Strada truck, beside having issues with mechanics, I actually got it done. Here is one photo when the mechanic was ripping apart the guts of it, most of those hoses, pipes, tubes was all replaced by new ones, he showed one to me, looks like those clogged artery, on this job I got the fuel pump totally rebuilt (it was the most expensive service), there was internal parts not working, so the truck was not starting well, I had to put a huge effort to start it. The other things I got replaced was all the belts, this truck got 3 belts, I also got a new alternator, I had no idea how the old one was still working, it was useless even to attempt to rebuild it, so it went straight to the bin, engine gasket and oil pan gasket was replaced by new ones, I got a new battery, the engine balance was checked, injectors was cleaned, intercooler also rebuilt, turbo charger was cleaned, air intake hoses all new, air filter was cleaned it was filthy as hell, radiator rebuilt (looks like new - $5 for the wash and check up - against $120 for a new one), new fluid for the steering wheel, coolant, and many small things like isolating wires to avoid short circuit, etc...

https://images2.imgbox.com/78/49/M6fCeikI_o.jpeg

Now it seems I got a little issue with the vacuum pump, however the break test passed, so I need to check the pressure if matches the standard, if not I will replace this part too, if vacuum lines fail it can be dangerous and you will find yourself pressing the breaks much harder than normal, it is like driving a non hydraulic steering wheel, it is hard, happened before, so best thing to do is to change the vacuum pump, sometimes just fixing the seals or gaskets may resolve the issue, but that is my fight with the mechanics, they want to sell me a new one and don't even look into the old part to see if there is a fix to it.. this I call laziness.

A few things I have to do yet, but no money now, so it will wait, here they are:



- replace all 4 CV boots, I got 1 cracked, since they are all same age, better to replace them all at once. (right now I have a plastic bag wrapping the cracked one with duct tape lol).
- vacuum pump (pending diagnostics).
- clutch kit (see the breakdown items - my clutch still good but very low now, so it will be necessary to replace it sooner than later).
- Flywheel
- Clutch pressure plate - Also referred to as the clutch comb or clutch cover
- Clutch disc or clutch plate
- Clutch release bearing (Throwout Bearing)
- gear shift fluid
- seal on the back of the crankshaft (I intend to do it while replacing fluid for the gears since it require disassembling the whole thing in my truck and it is quite a labor, he said like 7 to 8 hours).
- new engine oil + new engine oil filter + new fuel filter (ordinary service can do in any gas station).
- 1 windshield wiper motor (I got one down days ago, it does not affect driving because it is on the passenger side).
- a little body working on the 2 front doors (external only) I got some rust on it.


Beside the little pending to-do list everything is fine and working as expected, it is impressive how I got no rust in this truck, I mean chassis is in mint condition, axles and everything else, the only little rust I got is with the 2 front doors and it is not that bad, only started. We talking about a 21 years old truck.


[edit]
https://images2.imgbox.com/5f/18/RMRkkBTz_o.jpeg
This is the whole thing where the fuel pump is assembled.

https://images2.imgbox.com/51/d2/phoExxfu_o.jpeg
and here is the vacuum pump, the leak I have is in the white circle I made in the photo, I don't know if can put that apart and just change the seal instead of buy a new one, this part cost about $100 and probably is rebuilt. Anyone knows anything about vacuum pumps?

[norman]

Hi all,
If you checked out prices you might be flabbergast like me. Hoping to acquire a newer model pick-up truck in 2025. There is no way I would buy brand new but something a year or two older. So far my mind is set on either a Toyota Tacoma or Chevy Colorado and maybe the best procedure is to buy from an private owner and not a car dealer as the price is insane right now. Also someone mentioned car bartering or haggling on the price is not as common at car dealerships today but not sure about that.



Maybe this guy's got a good few points to make even in your case.

It's very likely that American gas prices will drop drastically in the next year. That brings older but rock solid and simpler gas guzzlers back into the picture, maybe. I know it would in my case if I were living there.

Scotty Kilmer has a look at a 2012 Lexus SUV that has a hell of a lot going for it in Trump's 2025-6 and onwards.

I'd be dredging the second hand market every day for one of these until I found the one for me.

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