A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

[Gustav]

''In Vienna he joined a secret Jewish group

Now it is going to be fun to find out what group that was. Or is that the Wiesenthal group?

On the topic on who did what in WWII. It is very interesting to find out how many soldiers have died on the Russian side and how many on the American/British side (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties) This shows that the USSR either has done a much bigger job in stopping the germans that the rest of the Allies combined or that they were extremely bad soldiers. Personally I would go with the first. Especially since the largest battles of WWII were fought on the Eastern Front and not in western europe. But this might be useful for a more conventional history lesson. I'll go back to the topic now ;)

[RedeZra]

Stalin's methods of sovietization by executing the intelligencia of Poland is most likely the reason why Hitler decided to invade Soviet


I don't recall this being a reason, as it wasn't known of before about 1942 or 3, but there were other pressing reasons.

That is true but the share scale of Stalin's policy of sovietization by eliminating and deportation of non-communist nationals in the Baltic States Poland and elsewhere would be picked up by German intelligence


this link to the Institute for Historical Review (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n3p40_Michaels.html) makes a case for a massive Soviet mobilisation as the reason for Germany's preemptive strike



Also Hitler himself said in his Reichstag Speech (http://historicalresources.wordpress.com/2008/09/20/germany%E2%80%99s-declaration-of-war-against-the-united-states-december-11-1941/) of December 11, 1941



After the repeated rejection of my peace proposal in 1940 by the British prime minister [Winston Churchill] and the clique that supports and controls him, it was clear by the fall of that year that this war would have to be fought through to the end, contrary to all logic and necessity.

Already in 1940 it became increasingly clear from month to month that the plans of the men in the Kremlin were aimed at the domination, and thus the destruction, of all of Europe. I have already told the nation of the build-up of Soviet Russian military power in the East during a period when Germany had only a few divisions in the provinces bordering Soviet Russia. Only a blind person could fail to see that a military build-up of unique world-historical dimensions was being carried out.

In a cowardly way, he [Churchill] now tries to deny that during a secret meeting in the British House of Commons in 1940 he said that an important factor for the successful continuation and conclusion of this war would be the Soviet entry into the war, which would come during 1941 at the latest, and which would also make it possible for Britain to take the offensive.





Like I mentioned in an earlier post, many of the partisans on the eastern front were jews.

there were a lot of fighting between pro-communists and nationalists especially in various nation states in Eastern Europe - it is a fact that a lot of Jews were pro-communists



''In Vienna he joined a secret Jewish group that was helping Israel come into being even as it strove to avenge the past. In 1946, his superior, Arthur Pier, who later changed his name to Asher Ben Natan and held posts in the Israeli government, instructed him on his top priority.''

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 was made in a letter from British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild stating that Britain will help make Israel in Palestine a dream come through

---

the German defeat was not a triumph over evil as propaganda wants us to believe but the defeat of a nation and a folk that would not be enslaved by the PTB - therefore it is today important to demonize Hitler and to destroy the reputation of the German nationals under WWII - so nobody else get any ideas standing up against the PTB

[Lord Sidious]

Stalin's methods of sovietization by executing the intelligencia of Poland is most likely the reason why Hitler decided to invade Soviet


I don't recall this being a reason, as it wasn't known of before about 1942 or 3, but there were other pressing reasons.

That is true but the share scale of Stalin's policy of sovietization by eliminating and deportation of non-communist nationals in the Baltic States Poland and elsewhere would be picked up by German intelligence


this link to the Institute for Historical Review (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n3p40_Michaels.html) makes a case for a massive Soviet mobilisation as the reason for Germany's preemptive strike

If you want some more on this, see if you can find the comments by Han-Ulrich Rudel and what he says about the stuka missions he conducted in the first days of Barbarossa. He says that the soviets had not only moved up their troops to the border with German occupied Poland, but had made breaches in their own defence lines.


Also Hitler himself said in his Reichstag Speech (http://historicalresources.wordpress.com/2008/09/20/germany%E2%80%99s-declaration-of-war-against-the-united-states-december-11-1941/) of December 11, 1941



After the repeated rejection of my peace proposal in 1940 by the British prime minister [Winston Churchill] and the clique that supports and controls him, it was clear by the fall of that year that this war would have to be fought through to the end, contrary to all logic and necessity.

Already in 1940 it became increasingly clear from month to month that the plans of the men in the Kremlin were aimed at the domination, and thus the destruction, of all of Europe. I have already told the nation of the build-up of Soviet Russian military power in the East during a period when Germany had only a few divisions in the provinces bordering Soviet Russia. Only a blind person could fail to see that a military build-up of unique world-historical dimensions was being carried out.

In a cowardly way, he [Churchill] now tries to deny that during a secret meeting in the British House of Commons in 1940 he said that an important factor for the successful continuation and conclusion of this war would be the Soviet entry into the war, which would come during 1941 at the latest, and which would also make it possible for Britain to take the offensive.

Yeah, but how many people read both sides version of events?




Like I mentioned in an earlier post, many of the partisans on the eastern front were jews.

there were a lot of fighting between pro-communists and nationalists especially in various nation states in Eastern Europe - it is a fact that a lot of Jews were pro-communists

True.




''In Vienna he joined a secret Jewish group that was helping Israel come into being even as it strove to avenge the past. In 1946, his superior, Arthur Pier, who later changed his name to Asher Ben Natan and held posts in the Israeli government, instructed him on his top priority.''
Yes.


The Balfour Declaration of 1917 was made in a letter from British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild stating that Britain will help make Israel in Palestine a dream come through

---
Yes.


the German defeat was not a triumph over evil as propaganda wants us to believe but the defeat of a nation and a folk that would not be enslaved by the PTB - therefore it is today important to demonize Hitler and to destroy the reputation of the German nationals under WWII - so nobody else get any ideas standing up against the PTB

See, here is the thing, the NSDAP government was great in everyones books until a certain time before the war.
All we have to find out is when and why things changed.
Once we do that, then we may get a surprise.

[karelia]

the German defeat was not a triumph over evil as propaganda wants us to believe but the defeat of a nation and a folk that would not be enslaved by the PTB - therefore it is today important to demonize Hitler and to destroy the reputation of the German nationals under WWII - so nobody else get any ideas standing up against the PTB

That. Totally. Resonates.

I grew up in Germany in the 1970s, and I distinctly remember some conversations between my grandmother's generation how things had gone down the drain despite the Wirtschaftswunder (economical miracle), and how the entire country was becoming far too Americanized. Those conversations were always in private settings and often contained the complaint that 'one has to watch what one says when overheard.' It was weird, especially as the younger generations were of the belief that Germany was a relatively 'free' country.

Then, in 1994, I read Ian van Helsing's Secret Societies and had a major aha-moment, remembering all the oddities I had overheard as a child. When that book and its sequel were banned by the government, I had no doubt that the governments of the world were hiding one heck of a lot.

[Lord Sidious]

the German defeat was not a triumph over evil as propaganda wants us to believe but the defeat of a nation and a folk that would not be enslaved by the PTB - therefore it is today important to demonize Hitler and to destroy the reputation of the German nationals under WWII - so nobody else get any ideas standing up against the PTB

That. Totally. Resonates.

I grew up in Germany in the 1970s, and I distinctly remember some conversations between my grandmother's generation how things had gone down the drain despite the Wirtschaftswunder (economical miracle), and how the entire country was becoming far too Americanized. Those conversations were always in private settings and often contained the complaint that 'one has to watch what one says when overheard.' It was weird, especially as the younger generations were of the belief that Germany was a relatively 'free' country.

Then, in 1994, I read Ian van Helsing's Secret Societies and had a major aha-moment, remembering all the oddities I had overheard as a child. When that book and its sequel were banned by the government, I had no doubt that the governments of the world were hiding one heck of a lot.

If anyone believes that Germany is not still occupied, then how come the first two verses of the national anthem are banned? And singing them is a jailable offence.
How come the constitutional court said in the late 70's that the FRG is an occupied land and the legal government is the last one in power?
There are foreign armies inside the nation?
The referendum to legitimise the constitution was never held after 1989, as per the constitution itself?
And this is without getting into the anti-constitutional laws forbidding any 3rd Reich insignia or logos but not banning others, or the holocaust denial laws.

[loveandgratitude]

]THE LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE
-DOCUMENTARY[/B]
Holocaust Denier.com
http://holocaustdenier.com
/
http://holocaustdenier.com/
The Last Days of the Big Lie is a documentary which debunks the disgusting liars glorified as victims and heroes in the Steven Spielberg produced, Academy Award winning fictional Holocaust “documentary” The Last Days.

 "The falsification of history has done more to impede human
development than any one thing known to mankind"
- Rousseau 1712-1778 -

The Jew who cried wolf?
July 20 1921 New York Times -
Jews beg American and Germans to save the 6,000,000 Jews from Extermination in Russia.?????
The Jews kept going to Germany to get the Germans and Americans to intervene in their impending Holocaust of Six Million in Russia!

Jews don't have to be "Zionists" per se or "Marxists" to be a threat. There may be jews who don't fall into those categories exactly, but nevertheless they are a threat because they have an Us vs. them mentality fostered by their insane attachment to their holocaust god. The "average" "non-marxist" "non-zionist" jew is a threat because he refuses to speak out against the evils perpetrated by his more radical brethren, thus making him a part of the problem. Where are the JEWISH WHISTLEBLOWERS. It is time for open and honest dialogue between Jews and No Jews. Time for asking questions and getting some answers. Thank you so much for this thread.

[karelia]

If anyone believes that Germany is not still occupied, then how come the first two verses of the national anthem are banned? And singing them is a jailable offence.
How come the constitutional court said in the late 70's that the FRG is an occupied land and the legal government is the last one in power?
There are foreign armies inside the nation?
The referendum to legitimise the constitution was never held after 1989, as per the constitution itself?
And this is without getting into the anti-constitutional laws forbidding any 3rd Reich insignia or logos but not banning others, or the holocaust denial laws.

I remember reading something about Art. 23 of the Grundgesetz with regard to the literal abolishment of the entire law in 1989/90. Iirc, Art. 23 was abolished, which essentially banished all the other articles of it.
Also, why does Germany not have a constitution? (Or is it only alleged to not have one, since there seems to be one school of thought that the last constitution was never abolished?) Since 1948, I think, it's had a Grundgesetz (Basic Law) but no constitution.
There are more questions I would love to find answers to, such as is it true that it was the Wehrmacht (Army) who capitulated, but Germany itself never actually did. Would that mean it's still in a war situation now?
And the whole flying disks/UFOs/Antarctica/Neuschwabenland—I think, no, I KNOW we have a right to know.
What is the whole situation over Rudolf Hess? It wasn't him who was allegedly kept in Spandau all these years and then died of old age, was it?

Lord Sidious, if you have any links to share, please feel free. It's been a while since I read up about it, mostly because I feel righteous anger when I come across the subject that screams more mind control than anything else I've encounters, and that's saying something. If there are any seemingly interesting articles in German, I'd be happy to translate those.

[Lord Sidious]

If anyone believes that Germany is not still occupied, then how come the first two verses of the national anthem are banned? And singing them is a jailable offence.
How come the constitutional court said in the late 70's that the FRG is an occupied land and the legal government is the last one in power?
There are foreign armies inside the nation?
The referendum to legitimise the constitution was never held after 1989, as per the constitution itself?
And this is without getting into the anti-constitutional laws forbidding any 3rd Reich insignia or logos but not banning others, or the holocaust denial laws.

I remember reading something about Art. 23 of the Grundgesetz with regard to the literal abolishment of the entire law in 1989/90. Iirc, Art. 23 was abolished, which essentially banished all the other articles of it.
Also, why does Germany not have a constitution? (Or is it only alleged to not have one, since there seems to be one school of thought that the last constitution was never abolished?) Since 1948, I think, it's had a Grundgesetz (Basic Law) but no constitution.
There are more questions I would love to find answers to, such as is it true that it was the Wehrmacht (Army) who capitulated, but Germany itself never actually did. Would that mean it's still in a war situation now?
And the whole flying disks/UFOs/Antarctica/Neuschwabenland—I think, no, I KNOW we have a right to know.
What is the whole situation over Rudolf Hess? It wasn't him who was allegedly kept in Spandau all these years and then died of old age, was it?

Lord Sidious, if you have any links to share, please feel free. It's been a while since I read up about it, mostly because I feel righteous anger when I come across the subject that screams more mind control than anything else I've encounters, and that's saying something. If there are any seemingly interesting articles in German, I'd be happy to translate those.

My friend, I have a court case from the court that I mentioned, but I can't find it right now, I will keep looking for it.
In it, it says the armed forces surrendered and not the Reich, which is dormant and not dead.
They say there is a representative of the Reich in Bonn, but I don't know if that is true.
I am still unsure of Neuschwabenland. It's a fact that there was at least one expedition there. Anything else, not sure.
That wasn't the real Hess in Spandau, no. A British army doctor who was there for a while wrote a book about it, Doppelganger or something similar.
He said the ''Hess'' they had did not have any sign of the chest wound the real one got in WW1.
He went on to point out something I noticed with ''Saddamn Hussein'' as well. The real ones had good teeth, the possible fakes had gaps between the two front teeth.
Also, the serial number on the Me110 that crashed in Scotland that ''Hess'' flew is different to the one that took off.
The ''Hess'' in Spandau introduced himself as Alfred Horn, not Hess when captured.
I will skype you as well.

[RedeZra]

And the whole flying disks/UFOs/Antarctica/Neuschwabenland—I think, no, I KNOW we have a right to know.


When Germany was the first to develop operational jet planes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_178), ballistic missiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket), flying saucers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_UFOs), commercial digital computers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z4_(computer)) and also most likely nuclear power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_energy_project) and the atom bomb (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4348497.stm) then what else did German scientists invent and make functional ?

I'm inclined to think that the incridible technological boom after WWII is the result of more or less secret German inventions


It was certainly no coincidence that the nuclear 'trinity' test in USA was a success just 2 months after 'the act of military surrender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Instrument_of_Surrender)' of Germany ratified 8 May in Berlin


Operation Paperclip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip) moved scientists technologies and documents out of Germany and into the US by special task forces that followed suit the Western Allies advancements into Germany

Regarding Operation Alsos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Alsos), Allied Intelligence described nuclear physicist Werner Heisenberg, the German nuclear energy project principal, as “ . . . worth more to us than ten divisions of Germans.”


Operation Highjump (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Highjump) in late August 1946 was a United States Navy military expedition in Antartica consisting of 13 ships almost 5000 men and multiple aircrafts

the expedition was terminated in Febuary 1947 six months early and no official explanation was given

If Admiral Byrd is not misquoted in an interview appearing March 5 1947 in the Chilean newspaper El Mercurio then Byrd warned of an imminent attack on the United States and the necessity to "remain in a state of alert and watchfulness" and take defensive precautions against "the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile aircraft proceeding from the polar regions".

"I do not want to scare anybody but the bitter reality is that in the event of a new war the United States will be attacked by aircraft flying in from over one or both poles." - Admiral Byrd march 1947

[karelia]

I did some surfing on the German web... Wow. Mind-blowing stuff. And a lot of it carries the signature of the global overlords...

Here is what I've found that seems to be pretty solidly referenced with court decisions, politicians' statements, etc:

- The German Reich continues to exist within its borders of 12/31/1937: http://www.8ung.at/brd/
According to the Federal Constitutional Court: Auszug aus Urteil 2Bvf1/73:

“...Es wird daran festgehalten (vgl zB BVerfG, 1956-08-17, 1 BvB 2/51, BVerfGE 5, 85 <126>), daß das Deutsche Reich den Zusammenbruch 1945 überdauert hat und weder mit der Kapitulation noch durch die Ausübung fremder Staatsgewalt in Deutschland durch die Alliierten noch später untergegangen ist; es besitzt nach wie vor Rechtsfähigkeit, ist allerdings als Gesamtstaat mangels Organisation nicht handlungsfähig. Die BRD ist nicht "Rechtsnachfolger" des Deutschen Reiches, sondern als Staat identisch mit dem Staat "Deutsches Reich", - in bezug auf seine räumliche Ausdehnung allerdings "teilidentisch". ...”
(The German Reich survived the collapse in 1945 and drowned neither with the capitulation nor with the practice of foreign state powers through the Allied Forces in Germany. It continues to be legally valid, is, however, as an overall state not capable of action due to lack of organisation. The FRG is not the 'legal successor' of the German Reich, but as a state identical with the state 'German Reich' – with regard to its geographical spread, however, only partly identical.)

- The Weimar Constitution from 1919 continues to be valid (several articles of the Basic Law reference that constitution)

- Article 23 of the GrundGesetz was scrapped in 1990 and with it the geographical validity of the entire law, hence the confusion over the validity of the GG altogether

- There are still 70,000 troops stationed in Germany, and they are completely under American jurisdiction, ie. if they commit a crime on German land, all German cops are allowed to do is hand them over to the US MP.

- There appears to be no single document that ends the war status between the German Reich and the other countries involved. Nor is one likely to happen, since the FRG is only seen as an interim "manager" of the German Reich, so to speak.

- The unification contract of the GDR joining the FRG appears to be invalid for the following reasons: The contract was signed on 08/31/1990 and reads as follows: Artikel 1:
Mit dem Wirksamwerden des Beitritts der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik zur Bundesrepublik Deutschland gemäß Artikel 23 des Grundgesetzes am 3. Oktober 1990 werden die Länder Brandenburg, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt und Thüringen Länder der Bundesrepublik Deutschland. ...
(With effect of the German Democratic Republic joining the German Federal Republic as per Article 23 of the Basic Law on October 3, 1990, the Länder of Brandenburg, MV, Sachsen, SA, and Thüringen become Länder of the German Republic.)
But Article 23 was wiped before 10/03/1990 by none other than James Baker.
Furthermore, the above mentioned Länder did not come into existence until 10/14/1990. So, uh, wedding before birth???

- Last, but not least, it appears that in 1990, a company by the name of German Federal Republic - Financial Agents was incorporated, its sole decision maker being the GFR. Looks like it's become a corporation...

[RedeZra]

- Last, but not least, it appears that in 1990, a company by the name of German Federal Republic - Financial Agents was incorporated, its sole decision maker being the GFR. Looks like it's become a corporation...

Perhaps the Crown in the City of London turns countries into corporations

[Lord Sidious]

- Last, but not least, it appears that in 1990, a company by the name of German Federal Republic - Financial Agents was incorporated, its sole decision maker being the GFR. Looks like it's become a corporation...

Perhaps the Crown in the City of London turns countries into corporations

I have a theory.
That the United Kingdom is actually the City of London for economics, The Vatican for religion and Washington DC for politics.
Through these three city states, they have captured the planet, but only in the world of legal fiction.
We aren't legal fictions, they are below us in the order of things.
So yes, I think you are right, the corporations are ultimately listed in the City.

[Fred259]

- Last, but not least, it appears that in 1990, a company by the name of German Federal Republic - Financial Agents was incorporated, its sole decision maker being the GFR. Looks like it's become a corporation...

Perhaps the Crown in the City of London turns countries into corporations

I have a theory.
That the United Kingdom is actually the City of London for economics, The Vatican for religion and Washington DC for politics.
Through these three city states, they have captured the planet, but only in the world of legal fiction.
We aren't legal fictions, they are below us in the order of things.
So yes, I think you are right, the corporations are ultimately listed in the City.

If that’s your theory Lord Sidious its 95% correct

Vatican – Religion - Obelisk in St Peters Square

City of London – Money - Obelisk Cleopatra’s Needle

District of Columbia - Military - Obelisk Washington Monument

[Fred259]

- Last, but not least, it appears that in 1990, a company by the name of German Federal Republic - Financial Agents was incorporated, its sole decision maker being the GFR. Looks like it's become a corporation...

Perhaps the Crown in the City of London turns countries into corporations

No Perhaps Redezra… it does ! so yes you are right

Canada
Australia
Some say America,
And many others.

Maybe you are aware that the military in these nations still have involvement with the crown.

RAF Royal Air Force (UK)
RAAF Royal Australian Air Force
RCAF Royal Canadian Air Force.

Its also the same with the navy.


You talk about the City of London, do you perhaps mean “ the Corporation of London” which is in the City of London financial district.

[karelia]

Interesting musings about whether Hitler wanted war: http://globalfire.tv/nj/11en/history/did_hitler_want_war.htm

And here an interview with Norman Finkelstein: http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/holoindustry/finkelstein.htm

And some interesting info here: http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2010/volume_2/number_4/halfway_between_reality_and_myth.php

[Lord Sidious]

- Last, but not least, it appears that in 1990, a company by the name of German Federal Republic - Financial Agents was incorporated, its sole decision maker being the GFR. Looks like it's become a corporation...

Perhaps the Crown in the City of London turns countries into corporations

No Perhaps Redezra… it does ! so yes you are right

Canada
Australia
Some say America,
And many others.

Maybe you are aware that the military in these nations still have involvement with the crown.

RAF Royal Air Force (UK)
RAAF Royal Australian Air Force
RCAF Royal Canadian Air Force.

Its also the same with the navy.


You talk about the City of London, do you perhaps mean “ the Corporation of London” which is in the City of London financial district.

That is what is meant by City of London. As you are probably aware, it is not part of England.

[Chicodoodoo]

It's clear to me that the USA is the modern Nazi Germany. We've used false-flag attacks and clever lies as excuses to invade and occupy numerous sovereign nations, we have military forces in over 150 countries (there are only about 193 countries in the world), our so-called free press is quite captive, we live in fear of our government and have no control over it whatsoever, our system of justice is a national joke, our air and water are deliberately laced with poisons, our money supply is under the control of private for-profit foreign interests, and our corporate government profits more from war and illicit drugs than it can possibly confiscate from Americans in taxes, all while keeping secret whatever it desires "in the interest of national security." Meanwhile, in our delusion, we sing about "the land of the free, and the home of the brave", while we pledge our allegiance to "liberty and justice for all" and solemnly swear to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Excuse me, I'm feeling faint....

(Note: our government has classified electromagnetic directed energy weapons that kill with no detectable signs, and the cause of death is always attributed to natural causes like stroke, heart attack, etc. That means they can murder with impunity. Of course, they would never do that.)

R.I.P.

[Lord Sidious]

It's clear to me that the USA is the modern Nazi Germany. We've used false-flag attacks and clever lies as excuses to invade and occupy numerous sovereign nations, we have military forces in over 150 countries (there are only about 193 countries in the world), our so-called free press is quite captive, we live in fear of our government and have no control over it whatsoever, our system of justice is a national joke, our air and water are deliberately laced with poisons, our money supply is under the control of private for-profit foreign interests, and our corporate government profits more from war and illicit drugs than it can possibly confiscate from Americans in taxes, all while keeping secret whatever it desires "in the interest of national security." Meanwhile, in our delusion, we sing about "the land of the free, and the home of the brave", while we pledge our allegiance to "liberty and justice for all" and solemnly swear to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Excuse me, I'm feeling faint....

(Note: our government has classified electromagnetic directed energy weapons that kill with no detectable signs, and the cause of death is always attributed to natural causes like stroke, heart attack, etc. That means they can murder with impunity. Of course, they would never do that.)

R.I.P.

I think you have been watching too many ''history channel'' documentaries and reading the same type of books.
When did Germany have a false flag?
And the invasions of some of their neighbours aren't exactly a parallell with Iraq or Afghanistan, are they?
Germany did have forces in quite a few nations and Hitler offered to pull them all out in a peace offer to the UK and France, but they wouldn't accept.
The press in Germany wasn't free 100% because you couldn't print anything that would undermine the war effort, defame the members of government or lower public morale.
Other than that, it was usually ok.
The streets were far safer to walk than any nation around now, the air and water weren't poisoned, unless you count smog and the money supply, which is what got Germany crushed, was under control of the executive.

[Chicodoodoo]

When did Germany have a false flag?

In my defense I have to say I don't watch television, and I read a variety of books, most dealing with uncovering the truth, whether in science, history, politics, or medicine.

Although many consider the Reichstag fire a “false-flag” event that greatly benefited the Nazi party, I will use the Gleiwitz incident as my example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident

You can be sure that if Germany used one false-flag event, they used many, and we just don't know about them because they are so effective. That is certainly true in the case of the USA.

The German T4 program was used for a variety of purposes, including killing “undesirables”. The same thing happens here, only "terrorists" often disappear off to unknown destinations for “treatment”.

http://remember.org/witness/wit.vic.med.html

Yes, Germany's air and water were probably cleaner, and their press was surely freer than ours (ours is not at all free), but like I said, the USA is the modern Nazi Germany. Things have been taken to a whole new level here. For example, the deliberate infection of residents in Punta Gorda, FL was over 50 years ago and is a typical example among hundreds:

http://www.cidpusa.org/A/mycoplasma.html#Testing_via_Mosquito_Vector_in_Punta_Gorda,_Florida_

Besides using our own population for experimental purposes (Tuskegee syphilis experiment, water fluoridation, chemtrails, vaccines), our use of depleted uranium munitions overseas is an unquestionable crime against all humanity (actually, all life).

I made this comparison to show how the USA has “surpassed” the infamy of Nazi Germany. It's like comparing 9/11 to Gleiwitz. We are at least an order of magnitude worse than Nazi Germany ever was. And the Nazis responsible are much better now at hiding their crimes.

[loveandgratitude]

Wilhelm Höttl and the Elusive 'Six Million'

by Mark Weber

So ingrained has the Six Million figure become in the popular consciousness that while the average American may be quite sure that six million Jews were slaughtered by the Germans in the Second World War -- that is, in what is now called "the Holocaust" -- he has no idea of how many British, Poles, Russians, or even Americans died during that global conflict, or, for that matter, of how many of his fellow countrymen lost their lives in the American Civil War.

This is hardly surprising, considering how relentlessly the Six Million figure is hammered into the public consciousness, not only in newspapers, magazines, motion pictures, and television, but also routinely in our schools, and even by a special taxpayer-funded U.S. federal government agency, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council, which runs the imposing U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC.

The familiar World Book Encyclopedia tells readers, for example: "By the end of 1945, the Nazis had slaughtered more than 6 million Jewish men, women and children -- over two-thirds of the Jews in Europe." [See note] German president Richard von Weizsäcker, in his much cited commemorative speech of May 8, 1985, spoke of "the six million Jews who were murdered in German concentration camps." Anglo-Jewish historian Martin Gilbert, a prolific writer who is also the "official" biographer of Winston Churchill, has referred to "the systematic murder of six million Jews." [See note] The Encyclopaedia Judaica states flatly: "There can be no doubt as to the estimated figure of some six million victims." [See note] An information sheet issued by the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council describes the grand Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC, as a "living memorial to the six million Jews and millions of other victims of Nazi fanaticism who perished in the Holocaust."

Just what is the basis for this familiar figure?

Even before the end of the Second World War in Europe, that is, before any careful or detailed investigation was possible, the Six Million figure was already in wide circulation. For example, in essays published in late 1944 and early 1945, the prominent Soviet-Jewish writer Ilya Ehrenburg repeatedly told his many readers that "the Germans" had killed six million Jews. In an article published in March 1945, for instance, in the English-language London weekly, Soviet War News, he wrote: "The world now knows that Germany has killed six million Jews." [See note]

Some weeks later, as David Irving has related, this figure was affirmed in New York by representatives of major Jewish organizations: [See note]

In June 1945, just a few weeks after the end of the war in Europe, three Jewish lawyers who represented major Jewish organizations, met in New York with Robert Jackson, who would soon be serving as the chief U.S. prosecutor at the so-called "International Military Tribunal" in Nuremberg. Jackson asked how many Jews had lost their lives in all Nazi-occupied lands. The number, he was told, was six million.

By remarkable coincidence, some twenty-five years earlier the American Jewish community had been warning of a "holocaust" of six million Jews in Europe. In an address published in 1919 in a leading Jewish American paper, the American Hebrew of New York City, under the headline "The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop!," the former governor of New York state, Martin Glynn, spoke repeatedly of "six million" European Jews who were "dying" and "being whirled toward the grave" in a "threatened holocaust of human life." [See note]

Given all this, it is hardly surprising that someone was found to provide "proof" for the Six Million figure at the most extravagant judicial undertaking in history, the 1945-46 trial in Nuremberg of Hermann Göring, Rudolf Hess, and other high-ranking Third Reich personalities. The legendary figure was fixed in history at the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg, where it was cited by chief British prosecutor Sir Hartley Shawcross in his closing address, and by the Allied judges in their final judgment. [See note]

This figure was not the result of any careful investigation, research, or calculation. The only specific evidence presented for it to the Nuremberg Tribunal was the hearsay testimony of former SS officer Wilhelm Höttl (sometimes spelled Hoettl), who said that he recalled it from a remark by Adolf Eichmann, the wartime head of the Jewish affairs section of Himmler's Reich Security Main Office (RSHA). Höttl, who also served with the RSHA during the war, stated in an affidavit dated November 26, 1945, and provided to the U.S. prosecution at Nuremberg, that Eichmann confided to him in August 1944 that some four million Jews had been killed in the "various extermination camps," and another two million had been killed in other ways, mostly in shootings by Einsatzgruppen forces in the course of the military campaign in Russia. [See note]

Eichmann himself, it should be noted, later called the Höttl story "nonsense," vigorously denied ever having made the alleged remark, and speculated that Höttl may have picked up the figure from a radio or newspaper report. [See note]

If it were not for Wilhelm Höttl's role in branding into the world's consciousness the trademark Six Million figure, his place in history would likely be little more than a footnote.

Who was this man, and how reliable is his historic affidavit?

He was born in Vienna in March 1915. In 1938, at the remarkably young age of twenty-three, he received a doctorate in history from the University of Vienna. While still a student there, he joined the National Socialist party and the SS. From 1939 until the end of the war in Europe, Höttl was employed almost without interruption by Germany's central intelligence agency, the RSHA. He was first stationed in Vienna with the "foreign bureau" (Amt Ausland, later Amt VI), and then, from early 1943, in Berlin in the "Southeastern Europe" branch E of Amt VI, with the SS rank of major (Sturmbannführer).

In March 1944 Höttl was assigned to Budapest, where he served as second in command to Himmler's SS representative in Hungary, and as political advisor to Hitler's ambassador there, Edmund Veesenmayer, who reported to Berlin, for example, on the large-scale deportations in 1944 of Jews from Hungary. On May 8, 1945, as German forces were unconditionally surrendering to the Allies, American troops arrested Höttl in Austria, and for several years after that he worked as an intelligence agent for the United States. He died in 1999, not long after the publication of his self-serving memoirs.

In April 2001 the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency made public thousands of pages of long-suppressed documents from its files of major German wartime figures, including the bulging Höttl file. Along with the release of these documents, two U.S. government employees wrote and issued a detailed report about Höttl based on those recently declassified CIA files, which sheds revealing light on his wartime and postwar career. This report, entitled "Analysis of the Name File of Wilhelm Hoettl," was written by two "historical researchers" of the U.S. government's "Interagency Working Group" (IWG), Miriam Kleiman and Robert Skwirot. [See note]

These documents establish that Höttl was a completely unreliable informant who routinely fabricated information to please those who were willing to pay him. In their report, the two U.S. government researchers write:

Hoettl's name file is approximately 600 pages, one of the largest of those released to the public so far. The size of the file owes to Hoettl's postwar career as a peddler of intelligence, good and bad, to anyone who would pay him. Reports link Hoettl to twelve different intelligence services, including the U.S., Yugoslav, Austrian, Israeli, Romanian, Vatican, Swiss, French, West German, Russian, Hungarian and British.

Soon after his arrest by the Americans in May 1945, Höttl began working for the U.S. Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the predecessor to the Central Intelligence Agency, and then for the U.S. Army's Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC). As the two U.S. government researchers put it: "Upon his arrest, Hoettl played to the interests of his captors ..." It was during this period, while he was secretly working for American intelligence, that Höttl provided his historic and damning "six million" affidavit for submission by the American prosecution at the Allied-run tribunal at Nuremberg.

Höttl benefited from his readiness to tell those who paid him what they wanted to hear, but this eventually proved his undoing. All the same, it took several years for U.S. intelligence to firmly conclude that it was being had.

In June 1949 one U.S. intelligence official cautioned against using Höttl for any reason, calling him "a man of such low character and poor political record that his use for intelligence activities, regardless of how profitable they may be, is a short-sighted policy by the U.S." In August 1950, CIA messages referred to Höttl as a "notorious fabricator [of] intelligence." A U.S. Army CIC report in early 1952 deemed his information useless, noting that Höttl "is involved in extensive intelligence activities for almost anyone who is willing to purchase his findings." In April 1952 his reports were called "worthless and possibly inflated or fabricated."

Interestingly, numerous U.S. intelligence reports identify connections between Höttl and Simon Wiesenthal, the well-known "Nazi hunter." One U.S. Army CIC document described Wiesenthal as the "Chief Austrian Agent of the Israeli Intelligence Bureau." A U.S. Army CIC report in January 1950 noted that for the last three or four months Wiesenthal had "recruited the services of Wilhelm Höttl," and had hired him to gather information for reports by the "Nazi hunter."

In July 1952, when U.S. Army intelligence finally broke completely with Höttl, a letter on U.S. Army stationery warned:

Dr. Höttl has long been known to this headquarters and other allied military organizations in Austria as a fabricator of intelligence information. His reports normally consist of a fine cobweb of fact, heavily padded with lies, deceit, conjecture and other false types of information. This organization will have absolutely nothing to do with Dr. Höttl or any members of his present entourage. He is persona non grata to the American, French and British elements in Austria.

In their report on his postwar career, U.S. government historical researchers Kleiman and Skwirot conclude:

The voluminous materials in Wilhelm Höttl's personality file ... trace the activities of a notorious intelligence peddler and fabricator, who successfully convinced one intelligence service after another of his value, and then proceeded to lose such support.

Indeed, and as already noted, Höttl "successfully convinced" the American and British prosecutors, and the judges, of the inter-Allied tribunal in Nuremberg, and many others around the world ever since, that German authorities killed six million Jews during the Second World War. And even though U.S. intelligence services and U.S. government researchers have, finally, as it were, discredited him, Höttl's most historically important claim remains widely, and even officially accepted.

The recently released U.S. intelligence documents on Höttl, and the U.S. government report about his postwar career, confirm what some revisionist scholars have contended for years. In his pathbreaking book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, first published in 1976, Dr. Arthur Butz cited sources that were publicly available even in the 1950s to show that, during the war, Höttl had gotten into trouble more than once with SS authorities. His involvement in a shady Polish land deal led in 1942 to an SS investigation of his activities. An internal SS report characterized him as "dishonest, scheming, fawning,... a real hoaxer," and concluded that he was not fit even for SS membership, let alone a sensitive intelligence service position. [See note] Höttl was, accordingly, demoted. But his luck improved after his friend and fellow Austrian, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, was appointed in 1943 to head the RSHA. It seems that Kaltenbrunner protected him from a second disciplinary action, this one for misappropriation of security service funds.

Regardless of the unreliability of Höttl's infamous affidavit, the more important question remains: How valid is the six million figure?

The most common technique used by Holocaust historians to calculate figures of between five and six million Jewish extermination victims is to compare prewar and postwar estimated Jewish population figures for various European countries and areas, and then assume that the differences between the figures were all killed. This was the method used, for example, by Jacob Lestchinsky to produce a figure of 5,957,000 Jewish Holocaust deaths, in his important 1946 World Jewish Congress report. [See note] It is also the technique used by the late Lucy Dawidowicz, another prominent Jewish Holocaust historian, who estimated a total of 5.9 million Jewish victims. [See note]

However, this method fails to take into account substantial numbers of Jews who emigrated or fled to Allied or neutral countries during the war years. It also ignores the fact that many Jews, particularly in Eastern Europe, did not return to their original homelands at the end of the war, but instead emigrated to Palestine, the United States, and other countries beyond Europe.

It further assumes that all Jewish deaths (or "losses") were due to German or Axis policy. Thus, all Jews in areas under German or Axis control who died during the war years are routinely and misleadingly counted as "victims of the Holocaust," regardless of the cause of death. This includes Jews who died of natural causes, perished in Allied bombings of cities and concentration camps, who died as Allied soldiers, particularly in the Soviet military, or who -- like hundreds of thousands of German civilians -- succumbed to exhaustion, disease, and exposure in the particularly catastrophic final months of the war. Raul Hilberg, probably the most prominent Holocaust historian, acknowledges that a distinction should be made between "Jewish losses" and "Holocaust victims." He notes, for example, that the average age of Jews in Germany at the outbreak of the war was abnormally high anyway. [See note]

It is unlikely that there were ever six million Jews under German control during the war.

The wartime representative of the World Jewish Congress in Switzerland, Gerhard Riegner, confidentially reported to London and Washington in August 1942 that the total number of Jews in the countries occupied or controlled by Germany was three and a half to four million. [See note] This figure presumably referred to Jews in the "Greater" German Reich (including Poland), as well as in France, Holland, Belgium, Slovakia, and the occupied Soviet territories. If one adds the approximately 1.2 million Jews estimated to be living in Hungary and Romania, the total number of Jews that came under direct or indirect German control during the war years could not have been more than 5.2 million.

The unreliable character of the legendary Six Million calculation is also shown in the manipulation of Holocaust statistics in the cases of specific countries. In this regard, it is much more fruitful to examine Jewish losses in western European countries, where much more reliable statistics and other data are available, than to attempt to estimate Jewish losses in such eastern territories as Poland, where reliable data is not available. (In the case of Poland, even the country's borders changed drastically during and just after the war.) An important feature of these manipulations is that even though figures of alleged Jewish wartime losses in individual countries may be inflated and deflated over the years, there is an obvious effort to juggle figures so that the overall total is kept as high as possible.
The Case of Denmark

Consider, for example, the case of Denmark. In 1946 the "Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry" announced in its widely quoted report that, out of a total of 5.7 million European Jews who perished during the war years, 1,500 were Danish Jews. [See note] Raul Hilberg, in his highly regarded, three-volume 1985 study, gave a similar figure of 1,000 Danish Jews "lost" during the war years. [See note]

In fact, fewer than 500 Jews were ever even deported from Denmark. (Most Danish Jews fled to Sweden in 1943.) All of these deportees from Denmark were sent to the ghetto-camp of Theresienstadt (or Terezin) where precisely 51 Danish Jews (mostly elderly) died, all of natural causes. [See note] Thus, even if these 51 are counted as "Holocaust victims," Jewish "losses" for Denmark were exaggerated approximately 30 times by the supposedly authoritative "Anglo-American Committee," and 19 times the true figure by Hilberg.
The Korherr Report

At the beginning of 1943 SS chief Heinrich Himmler ordered his "Inspector for Statistics," Richard Korherr, to prepare a report on the "Final Solution of the European Jewish Question." Relying for the most part on information and figures supplied by the Reich Security Main Office, Korherr wrote a sixteen-page statistical survey that he submitted to Himmler on March 23, 1943. A few weeks later he produced a shorter supplemental version with the same title. [See note]

Even though, as Hilberg has pointed out, much about these reports, including their origin and purpose, "remains obscure," they are nevertheless the most authoritative wartime statistical records available on the fate of Europe's Jews. [See note] These top level, secret German documents contain no mention of an extermination program or mass killings of Jews, a fact that seems hardly possible if such a program had existed. Furthermore, as Jewish historian Gerald Reitlinger noted, they suggest that nothing like six million Jews could have been killed, even assuming the most sinister interpretations of the data. [See note] Korherr, a staunch Catholic, declared after the war that he had not been aware that his reports had any sinister or murderous significance. [See note]
Jewish Restitution Claims

Another important indication that the Six Million figure is not accurate is the large number of Jewish "Holocaust survivors" who have received restitution payments (Wiedergutmachung) from the German government in Bonn and, more recently, in Berlin. Individuals who were "persecuted for political, racial, religious or ideological reasons" by the wartime German regime have been eligible for money from the Bonn and Berlin government under the terms of the Federal Compensation Law (BEG) of 1953 and 1956. This includes Jews who were interned in camps or ghettos, were obliged to wear the star badge, or who lived in hiding. [See note]

As of January 1984, there were 4.39 million successful individual BEG restitution claims. The great majority of these were from Jews. Raul Hilberg has said that "about two thirds" of the allowed claims have been from Jews. [See note] This is a realistic but possibly conservative estimate. Approximately 40 percent of those receiving payments were living in Israel, 20 percent in West Germany, and 40 percent in the United States and other countries. [See note]

The Atlanta Journal and Constitution newspaper reported in 1985 that an estimated 50 percent of Jewish "survivors throughout the world are on West German pensions." [See note] But this estimate is very probably too high. For example, Jews in Poland, the Soviet Union, Hungary, Romania, and Czechoslovakia were not eligible for restitution, at least not at that time. [See note] In the United States, only about 66 percent of the Jewish "Holocaust survivors" in the Atlanta (Georgia) area in 1985 had received German restitution money. [See note]

If one conservatively estimates that two thirds of the 4.39 million individual claims for German restitution have come from Jews, that would mean some 2.9 million Jewish claims. And if half of the Jewish "Holocaust survivors" around the world have not received any restitution (which is probably a low figure), and granted that the number of claimants may be somewhat larger than the number of claims, it would appear that some six million European Jews "survived" the Second World War. (Of course, some European Jews who lived through the war years died before the German BEG restitution law was enacted in 1953.) And given that there were no more than some eight million European Jews under German wartime control, [See note] the number of Jews who died in Europe during the Second World War must be fewer than three million. As we shall see, the actual figure of Jewish wartime dead is substantially lower.

Finally, estimates of "Holocaust survivors" provided in recent years by authoritative Jewish sources cannot be reconciled with the generally accepted "Holocaust" story or the Six Million figure.

Before going further, it is a remarkable fact that, in recent years, the number of "Holocaust survivors" has actually been increasing. This is because -- as Norman Finkelstein stresses in his important book, The Holocaust Industry -- Israel, the World Jewish Congress, and other major Jewish organizations, all of which demand and collect billions in the name of "Holocaust survivors," have an interest in inflating figures both of wartime victims and of postwar survivors.

A report issued in July 1997 -- that is, fifty-three years after the end of the war -- by a committee organized by the Israeli prime minister's office estimated the number of "Holocaust survivors" (admittedly defined rather broadly) at between 834,000 and 960,000. A similarly authoritative report issued in June 2000, that is, fifty-five years after the end of the war in Europe, estimated the number of Jewish "Holocaust" survivors at between 832,000 and 935,000. [See note]These figures, Robert Faurisson has written, suggest that there were slightly more than three million Jewish "survivors" in Europe at the end of the 1939-1945 war. [See note]

Norman Finkelstein, a professor of political science at Hunter College in New York, and author of The Holocaust Industry, has commented that, on the basis of these Israeli or Jewish figures, there would have been eight million Jewish "Holocaust survivors" in Europe at the end of the war in May 1945. Remarking on this, Finkelstein has said: [See note]

There were fewer than eight million Jews in all of Nazi-occupied Europe. In other words, if these numbers are correct, the Holocaust didn't happen. As my mother used to say, if everyone who claims to be a Holocaust survivor actually is one, who did Hitler kill?

How many Jews did die during the Second World War? A year after the end of the war, an apparently impartial Swiss analysis entitled "How high is the number of Jewish victims?" concluded that no more than 1.5 million European Jews could have perished (of all causes) under German rule during the war. It appeared in June 1946 in the respected daily Baseler Nachrichten of neutral Switzerland. [See note] The widely-cited figures of between five and six million Jewish dead, the analysis noted, were not based on official sources, but merely private and semi-official estimates that greatly exaggerated the number of Jews that ever came under German control.

Stephen F. Pinter, a U.S. War Department attorney who was stationed in Germany after the war, published a statement in 1959 in which he condemned what he called "the old propaganda myth that millions of Jews were killed by the National Socialists." He went on to write: [See note]

From what I was able to determine during six postwar years in Germany and Austria, there were a number of Jews killed, but the figure of a million was certainly never reached. I interviewed thousands of Jews, former inmates of concentration camps in Germany and Austria, and consider myself as well qualified as any man on this subject.

Some revisionist historians have reached similar conclusions. Arthur Butz and Robert Faurisson have written that as many as one million European Jews may have died of all causes during the war years (not counting those serving in military forces). [See note] Walter Sanning, a European-American scholar and university lecturer, concluded in his detailed 1983 study that total Jewish losses during the Second World War were "in the neighborhood" of 1.25 million, many of whom died as Red Army soldiers or in Soviet camps and forced evacuations. [See note]

A common rejoinder to expressions of skepticism about the Six Million is rhetorically to ask: "What difference does it make how many were killed? It would be terrible if just one million, or even one thousand, Jews were murdered." To many people, efforts to establish the true numbers seem like insensitive and perhaps irrelevant quibbling. But the skeptics are not the ones who incessantly and insistently go on about Six Million murdered Jews. It is not the revisionists who have made a totem of this legendary figure, or who invoke it as quasi-sacrosanct ritual symbol. In any case, striving for historical exactitude, even about the iconic Six Million, is precisely what historians are supposed to do.

[karelia]

I don't think Gleiwitz was a false flag... http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Gleiwitz&TheStartOfWW2-GlenI.html

It's hard to figure out what's truth and what's disinfo on this subject. Some of it is referenced, but the vast majority of articles isn't. But wikipedia would naturally follow the PC view.

[loveandgratitude]

THE MYTH OF GERMAN CULPABILITY

THE 2nd WORLD WAR?
THE SEQUENCE OF AGGRESSION

By Michael Walsh

One of the great mysteries of life is that despite the evidence to the contrary millions of otherwise intelligent people still believe that Germany was the all powerful aggressor during the 2nd World War. Nothing better than these myths illustrate the mind-bending power of propaganda. The provable facts suggest that Germany was the victim and not the perpetrator of naked neighboring aggression. The subsequent allied military triumph was followed by the triumph of the propagandists whose pressing need was to depict the victor nations as being the victim.

THE BRUTISH EMPIRE:

"Germany is too strong. We must destroy her."
- Winston Churchill, Nov. 1936.


Hilter accused Churchill of being beholden to the Jews, particularly the Jewish Financiers Who He thought supported Churchill.
He thought the same of Roosevelt and the Jewish Banks and the Democratic Party. He said allot of the same stuff some People do Here about the Media and the Entertainment Industry. He was "at War" with the Jewish Community from of the beginning because He was hostile to Jews,
and They were hostile to Him from the start.

QUOTE FROM CHURCHILL - "The war was not just a matter of the elimination of Fascism in Germany, but rather of obtaining German sales markets." - Winston Churchill. March, 1946.

QUOTE - On September 2nd 1939 a delegate of the Labour Party met with the British Foreign Minister Halifax in the lobby of Parliament. 'Do you still have hope?' he asked. 'If you mean hope for war,' answered Halifax, 'then your hope will be fulfilled tomorrow. 'God be thanked!' replied the representative of the British Labour Party. - Professor Michael Freund.

"I emphasized that the defeat of Germany and Japan and their elimination from world trade would give Britain a tremendous opportunity to swell her foreign commerce in both volume and profit." - Samuel Untermeyer, The Public Years, p.347.

TO READ MORE ON THIS AMAZING REPORT ON THE HISTORY WITHOUT THE SPIN..................GREAT WORK.

http://ety.com/HRP/walshcomments/20010620.htm

[Chicodoodoo]

It's hard to figure out what's truth and what's disinfo on this subject.

Using history to validate history is a slippery slope, to be sure. Germany has a history of invading other countries, whereas Poland does not. Of course, I'm basing that on history I've learned. In truth, I don't know more than what I've experienced, and I'm no different than anyone else. We have a much better chance of figuring out if 9/11 was a false-flag, since it happened in our lifetime, and more to gain from it as well. I am convinced 9/11 was a false-flag, and I am convinced that many "valuable" Nazis were quietly brought to the USA after World War II. And I strongly suspect that those Nazis (sociopaths) and their apprentices directly resulted in 9/11. So for me, the Gleiwitz piece fits the puzzle. It contributes to a picture of reality that I don't like at all, but I have to go with the best evidence I can accumulate. That the Holocaust could very well be exaggerated for propaganda purposes also fits that same awful puzzle. When Rahm Emanuel (a sociopath, IMO) announces on public television that they won't let a crisis go to waste, and Hillary (another sociopath) parrots the same philosophy, I can see fertile fields for harvesting false-flag events. And I think we reap what we sow.

[karelia]

Using history to validate history is a slippery slope, to be sure. Germany has a history of invading other countries, whereas Poland does not. Of course, I'm basing that on history I've learned. In truth, I don't know more than what I've experienced, and I'm no different than anyone else. We have a much better chance of figuring out if 9/11 was a false-flag, since it happened in our lifetime, and more to gain from it as well. I am convinced 9/11 was a false-flag, and I am convinced that many "valuable" Nazis were quietly brought to the USA after World War II. And I strongly suspect that those Nazis (sociopaths) and their apprentices directly resulted in 9/11. So for me, the Gleiwitz piece fits the puzzle. It contributes to a picture of reality that I don't like at all, but I have to go with the best evidence I can accumulate. That the Holocaust could very well be exaggerated for propaganda purposes also fits that same awful puzzle. When Rahm Emanuel (a sociopath, IMO) announces on public television that they won't let a crisis go to waste, and Hillary (another sociopath) parrots the same philosophy, I can see fertile fields for harvesting false-flag events. And I think we reap what we sow.

UK and US have invaded way more countries than Germany ever did...

Yes, I have no doubt that many Nazis were brought to the US. And I'm with you on the 9/11 connection! And on the sociopath bit, too.

I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think that there were two camps amongst Nazis: some ended up in the US to further control (Wernherr von Braun, anyone?), others ended up in South America/Antarctica/hollow earth. Not sure I got the name right, Virgyl Armstrong(sp?), an ex-CIA member talked about some Nazis having escaped to the hollow of the earth and turned "good."

[RedeZra]

You talk about the City of London, do you perhaps mean “ the Corporation of London” which is in the City of London financial district.


Corporation of London changed it's name 10 Nov 2005 to the City of London Corporation which is the corporate governing body of the City of London

But I believe this is the Crown that owns ( legal fiction ) not only Big Corps but also whole countries




legal fiction - just a goddamn piece of paper ; )

[RedeZra]

I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think that there were two camps amongst Nazis: some ended up in the US to further control (Wernherr von Braun, anyone?), others ended up in South America/Antarctica/hollow earth. Not sure I got the name right, Virgyl Armstrong(sp?), an ex-CIA member talked about some Nazis having escaped to the hollow of the earth and turned "good."

Apart from propaganda there is no reason to believe that German nationalists did not observe the rules and regulations set forth in the Geneva Convention

Sadly this can not be said about Stalin Soviet which didn't even sign it

[Gypsy Woman]

Cole in Auschwitz


A Jewish revisionist visits Auschwitz in order to uncover the real facts about the so-called holocaust.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKHw0EZrqM

He has since apologized and recanted, yes he did. Then disappeared.

(BTW: It took me YEARS to screw up the courage to look at this stuff, but once I got that courage? I left no stone unturned. That is my way.)

[Gypsy Woman]

OK here goes, my 2 cents as usual:

As I state above, it took me a very long time to muster up the courage to even LOOK at this stuff, but I did, and went OCD for about 6 months doing research. Looked at everything that's available on the internet, and I mean EVERYTHING Sidius... Verbotten or not... It's what I do. (I might have missed my calling.)

Anyway, at the end of my search, my rational logical very GROUNDED mind concluded one thing: (everybody sing ) "There's... NO business like SHOAH business like NO business I KNOW..."

[RedeZra]

He has since apologized and recanted, yes he did. Then disappeared.


Here is an article that was on the Jewish Defense League (JDL) website titled



David Cole: Monstrous Traitor
By Robert J. Newman




Don't you think it's time that we flush this rotten, sick individual down the toilet, where the rest of the waste lies?

One less David Cole in the world will certainly not end Jew-hatred, but it will have removed a dangerous parasitic, disease-ridden bacteria from infesting society...An evil monster like this does not deserve to live on this earth.


http://www.codoh.com/cole/traitor_amer.html


JDL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League)is a Jewish nationalist organization whose stated goal is to "protect Jews from antisemitism by whatever means necessary"

[Gustav]

Interesting developments in the last two days. Thank you everyone for the contributions. I especially like the information about the Constitution vs. Basic Law in Germany. Very interesting. Also the mention of countries being corporation surfaced again. What I would like to ask is the following. It is often stated that the Act of 1871 or the Act to provide a Government for the District of Columbia turned the United States into a corporation. Now, I have been reading this document the last 15 minutes and I cannot seem to find it. This would not mean it is not true or not there, but I just cannot find it. Can someone point me to the correct sections of that act?

http://www.nikolasschiller.com/blog/index.php/archives/2009/01/30/2215/#more-2215

Greetings,

Gustav

[Lord Sidious]

When did Germany have a false flag?

In my defense I have to say I don't watch television, and I read a variety of books, most dealing with uncovering the truth, whether in science, history, politics, or medicine.

Although many consider the Reichstag fire a “false-flag” event that greatly benefited the Nazi party, I will use the Gleiwitz incident as my example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident

You can be sure that if Germany used one false-flag event, they used many, and we just don't know about them because they are so effective. That is certainly true in the case of the USA.

The German T4 program was used for a variety of purposes, including killing “undesirables”. The same thing happens here, only "terrorists" often disappear off to unknown destinations for “treatment”.

http://remember.org/witness/wit.vic.med.html

Yes, Germany's air and water were probably cleaner, and their press was surely freer than ours (ours is not at all free), but like I said, the USA is the modern Nazi Germany. Things have been taken to a whole new level here. For example, the deliberate infection of residents in Punta Gorda, FL was over 50 years ago and is a typical example among hundreds:

http://www.cidpusa.org/A/mycoplasma.html#Testing_via_Mosquito_Vector_in_Punta_Gorda,_Florida_

Besides using our own population for experimental purposes (Tuskegee syphilis experiment, water fluoridation, chemtrails, vaccines), our use of depleted uranium munitions overseas is an unquestionable crime against all humanity (actually, all life).

I made this comparison to show how the USA has “surpassed” the infamy of Nazi Germany. It's like comparing 9/11 to Gleiwitz. We are at least an order of magnitude worse than Nazi Germany ever was. And the Nazis responsible are much better now at hiding their crimes.

I would suggest to you that the US and the entire western world is more akin to communism that national socialism.
In fact, the entire west is now the Weimar Republic.



It's hard to figure out what's truth and what's disinfo on this subject.

Using history to validate history is a slippery slope, to be sure. Germany has a history of invading other countries, whereas Poland does not. Of course, I'm basing that on history I've learned. In truth, I don't know more than what I've experienced, and I'm no different than anyone else. We have a much better chance of figuring out if 9/11 was a false-flag, since it happened in our lifetime, and more to gain from it as well. I am convinced 9/11 was a false-flag, and I am convinced that many "valuable" Nazis were quietly brought to the USA after World War II. And I strongly suspect that those Nazis (sociopaths) and their apprentices directly resulted in 9/11. So for me, the Gleiwitz piece fits the puzzle. It contributes to a picture of reality that I don't like at all, but I have to go with the best evidence I can accumulate. That the Holocaust could very well be exaggerated for propaganda purposes also fits that same awful puzzle. When Rahm Emanuel (a sociopath, IMO) announces on public television that they won't let a crisis go to waste, and Hillary (another sociopath) parrots the same philosophy, I can see fertile fields for harvesting false-flag events. And I think we reap what we sow.

Germany only existed since the First Reich in 1871.
France and Britain are far more feral than Germany ever has been, but they wrote the history.

And you are using the term nazi in a way that doesn't fit national socialists.
You do know that most of the people in Germany before and during the war weren't members of the NSDAP, don't you?





Using history to validate history is a slippery slope, to be sure. Germany has a history of invading other countries, whereas Poland does not. Of course, I'm basing that on history I've learned. In truth, I don't know more than what I've experienced, and I'm no different than anyone else. We have a much better chance of figuring out if 9/11 was a false-flag, since it happened in our lifetime, and more to gain from it as well. I am convinced 9/11 was a false-flag, and I am convinced that many "valuable" Nazis were quietly brought to the USA after World War II. And I strongly suspect that those Nazis (sociopaths) and their apprentices directly resulted in 9/11. So for me, the Gleiwitz piece fits the puzzle. It contributes to a picture of reality that I don't like at all, but I have to go with the best evidence I can accumulate. That the Holocaust could very well be exaggerated for propaganda purposes also fits that same awful puzzle. When Rahm Emanuel (a sociopath, IMO) announces on public television that they won't let a crisis go to waste, and Hillary (another sociopath) parrots the same philosophy, I can see fertile fields for harvesting false-flag events. And I think we reap what we sow.

UK and US have invaded way more countries than Germany ever did...

Yes, I have no doubt that many Nazis were brought to the US. And I'm with you on the 9/11 connection! And on the sociopath bit, too.

I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think that there were two camps amongst Nazis: some ended up in the US to further control (Wernherr von Braun, anyone?), others ended up in South America/Antarctica/hollow earth. Not sure I got the name right, Virgyl Armstrong(sp?), an ex-CIA member talked about some Nazis having escaped to the hollow of the earth and turned "good."

Many went to America due to Operation Paperclip, but the very best went to Argentina and ended up working in the region around Bariloche.
Neuschawabenland is a possibility, but I have seen nothing concrete.




I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think that there were two camps amongst Nazis: some ended up in the US to further control (Wernherr von Braun, anyone?), others ended up in South America/Antarctica/hollow earth. Not sure I got the name right, Virgyl Armstrong(sp?), an ex-CIA member talked about some Nazis having escaped to the hollow of the earth and turned "good."

Apart from propaganda there is no reason to believe that German nationalists did not observe the rules and regulations set forth in the Geneva Convention

Sadly this can not be said about Stalin Soviet which didn't even sign it

If you care enough to check it out, the OKW, the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht, the high command of the armed forces, had a war crimes investigations unit directly attached to it.
This unit investigated both allied and German war crimes allegations including the SS and Waffen SS.




He has since apologized and recanted, yes he did. Then disappeared.


Here is an article that was on the Jewish Defense League (JDL) website titled



David Cole: Monstrous Traitor
By Robert J. Newman




Don't you think it's time that we flush this rotten, sick individual down the toilet, where the rest of the waste lies?

One less David Cole in the world will certainly not end Jew-hatred, but it will have removed a dangerous parasitic, disease-ridden bacteria from infesting society...An evil monster like this does not deserve to live on this earth.


http://www.codoh.com/cole/traitor_amer.html


JDL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League)is a Jewish nationalist organization whose stated goal is to "protect Jews from antisemitism by whatever means necessary"

Before Sep 11, the JDL was the most wanted domestic terrorist org on the FBI list.
Their onetime leader, Irv Rubin, was in jail for the firebombing of the IHR warehouse.
He died in jail and it is suspected that it was he that threatened David Cole.
It also looks like Rubin was assassinated in jail.

NOTE: For those people who may be confused why I post links sometimes and not others, is that I like people to look for themselves as they will see surrounding sites and info in their search rather than just get one link.
There is no wisdom in shallow fishing.



Interesting developments in the last two days. Thank you everyone for the contributions. I especially like the information about the Constitution vs. Basic Law in Germany. Very interesting. Also the mention of countries being corporation surfaced again. What I would like to ask is the following. It is often stated that the Act of 1871 or the Act to provide a Government for the District of Columbia turned the United States into a corporation. Now, I have been reading this document the last 15 minutes and I cannot seem to find it. This would not mean it is not true or not there, but I just cannot find it. Can someone point me to the correct sections of that act?

http://www.nikolasschiller.com/blog/index.php/archives/2009/01/30/2215/#more-2215

Greetings,

Gustav

Check sec 41.
And let me check some of my info later, after I have a snooze and I will get back to you

[Flash]

- Last, but not least, it appears that in 1990, a company by the name of German Federal Republic - Financial Agents was incorporated, its sole decision maker being the GFR. Looks like it's become a corporation...

Perhaps the Crown in the City of London turns countries into corporations

No Perhaps Redezra… it does ! so yes you are right

Canada
Australia
Some say America,
And many others.

Maybe you are aware that the military in these nations still have involvement with the crown.

RAF Royal Air Force (UK)
RAAF Royal Australian Air Force
RCAF Royal Canadian Air Force.

Its also the same with the navy.


You talk about the City of London, do you perhaps mean “ the Corporation of London” which is in the City of London financial district.

Just here kind of a way to show you how embedded in us those "crown" involvment are, I was talking to an American businessman about different companies in Canada, there were other listeners to the discussion and I said with a sure automatism "Oh! I think this company X is a Crown corporation" just to see in their face something wrong and then one listener asked me "what a crown on your teeth has to do with a corporation?" I just laugh about the misunderstanding and explain the ways the Crown of England had been involved in Canada and that we still call companies owned by the government "Crown corporations" - but some are, some are not.

However, I realised then a tiny bit of my own programming.

[Gustav]

Hmm, I still am more convinced that it says the corporations of Georgetown and Washington are succeeded by the corporation of Columbia District than anything else. I fail to see the grand conspiracy that this establishes the corporation of the united states and would make it superior to the Constitution/would alter the constitution. But perhaps I am not reading between the lines.

More on topic. National Socialism and Communism are of the same kind as you all might know. Perhaps little more known is the fact that Communism is also referred to as International Socialism. As long as any government is proposing, covert or not, socialism in the european sense in its own respective country instead of worldwide it can be quite easily argued that most governments are to a certain level national-socialists. Simply based on the fact that they do not propagate those same socialistic measures to be taken in other countries. This particularly applies to the United States. In Europe however, there indeed can be spoken of a international socialistic movement based on the fact that every government support the basic socialistic, redistributional and collective ideas of the various 'Internationale' meetings held from the 1840s/1850s onward.

Now, where in terminology often the people are led astray is with the term Fascism. Fascism is also a collective collective society, focusses on the merger of business and state as a means of growing production. However, there is a reluctance in fascism to collectivism. Therefore, financial means are left with the general populace to provide a bigger sense of individuality. In itself this system thus incorporates a better, if you will, garantuee for the individual than is the case under outright collectivistic systems.
Following this line its means that you can be a nazi and a fascist at the same time, but being the first does not include also being the other.

Why is this relevant to the topic? Because usually nazi's and fascists are seen as the same. But they are not. They have a different mindset. Fascists did not murder systematically jews, gypsies, gays etc. However, they were very fond of locking up political adverseries. As an example, listen to Erick Ritter (Knight) von Kuehnelt-Leddihn.
Not about the locking up, but about the stance of fascist italy during the route to WWII towards National Socialist Germany. A very interesting man, altough his merits are not in the field discussed in this topic. Listen what he has to say from 32:14 to 33:15. Het is talking about the backgrounds of Ludwig von Mises an this in light of the accusations that Mises would be a supporter of fascism. But rather he was anti-democratic. Anyway, it is a recommendation to listen the whole lecture/speech ;)

http://mises.org/media/1328/The-Mises-and-Hayek-Critiques-of-Modern-Political-State
or direct link:
http://media.mises.org/mp3/Kuehnelt-Leddihn.mp3

[Chicodoodoo]

And you are using the term nazi in a way that doesn't fit national socialists.

You are correct. Labels and how we understand them is a huge problem in communications. This is a critical key to understanding the success of propaganda techniques. I won't try to define "national socialists" because that term is so steeped in propaganda that it has no meaning to me (much like the terms "Democrat" and "Republican" nowadays). However, I will give you my definition of "Nazi". A Nazi is a fascist (oops, another label everyone defines differently) whose actions are directed at controlling and manipulating a large majority for the benefit of a small minority and to the detriment of those being manipulated. Nazis are essentially sociopaths, just like fascists are essentially sociopaths. Hitler and his minions were Nazis. Mussolini and his minions were Fascists. Roosevelt and his minions were "New Dealers". All were sociopaths working against the common good while justifying their actions as being necessary for the common good. We (all humanity) are the common good, and they hurt us.

The critical point in all this (including the main subject of this thread) is that we are being fooled. It's pervasive, it's ancient, it's unrelenting, and it's crippling. Humanity is being suppressed. What interests me is why. We must be extremely important in some way to merit this kind of attention. It is the search for truth that drives me. What is the truth here?

[RedeZra]

A Nazi is a fascist (oops, another label everyone defines differently) whose actions are directed at controlling and manipulating a large majority for the benefit of a small minority and to the detriment of those being manipulated. Nazis are essentially sociopaths, just like fascists are essentially sociopaths. Hitler and his minions were Nazis.


the term Nazi is so stained with the PTB's propaganda that today it's almost synonym with 'evil'


Nazi is an abbreviation of Nationalsozialist which again is an abbreviation of the governing party of Hitler Germany between 1933 and 1945 - Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP)


Hitler and the Nationalsozialists dared to defy the PTB and sought reparations from the unfair 'Treaty of Versailles' where Germany was forced to accept sole responsibility for WWI and consequently bleed billions of Marks to France Britain and Russia leaving the German people destitute

Germany was also forced to cede West Prussia to Poland leaving East Prussia as an exclave separated from mainland Germany


When Hitler invaded Western part of Poland it was to connect East Prussia and it's German population with Germany - and so Britain and France declared war on Germany

[Lord Sidious]

Hmm, I still am more convinced that it says the corporations of Georgetown and Washington are succeeded by the corporation of Columbia District than anything else. I fail to see the grand conspiracy that this establishes the corporation of the united states and would make it superior to the Constitution/would alter the constitution. But perhaps I am not reading between the lines.

Because it was in later acts that DC became the US. That isn't the topic of this thread. If you want, start another one on that topic.


More on topic. National Socialism and Communism are of the same kind as you all might know.

Then you would know wrong. Other than some things in common such as the socialism name and being one party states, there isn't much in common.


Perhaps little more known is the fact that Communism is also referred to as International Socialism.

And it is said to be an interim phase to communism.


As long as any government is proposing, covert or not, socialism in the european sense in its own respective country instead of worldwide it can be quite easily argued that most governments are to a certain level national-socialists.

That would be a huge misunderstanding of the basis of national socialism and you would be comparing on name alone.


Simply based on the fact that they do not propagate those same socialistic measures to be taken in other countries. This particularly applies to the United States. In Europe however, there indeed can be spoken of a international socialistic movement based on the fact that every government support the basic socialistic, redistributional and collective ideas of the various 'Internationale' meetings held from the 1840s/1850s onward.

Now, where in terminology often the people are led astray is with the term Fascism. Fascism is also a collective collective society, focusses on the merger of business and state as a means of growing production. However, there is a reluctance in fascism to collectivism. Therefore, financial means are left with the general populace to provide a bigger sense of individuality. In itself this system thus incorporates a better, if you will, garantuee for the individual than is the case under outright collectivistic systems.
Following this line its means that you can be a nazi and a fascist at the same time, but being the first does not include also being the other.

No, you can't be a national socialist and a fascist. They are both very different economic models that are different in key areas.


Why is this relevant to the topic? Because usually nazi's and fascists are seen as the same. But they are not.

That is what people are conditioned to say, but how many people could tell you the difference in the two systems?


They have a different mindset. Fascists did not murder systematically jews, gypsies, gays etc.

And neither did the national sociailists.


However, they were very fond of locking up political adverseries. As an example, listen to Erick Ritter (Knight) von Kuehnelt-Leddihn.
Not about the locking up, but about the stance of fascist italy during the route to WWII towards National Socialist Germany. A very interesting man, altough his merits are not in the field discussed in this topic. Listen what he has to say from 32:14 to 33:15. Het is talking about the backgrounds of Ludwig von Mises an this in light of the accusations that Mises would be a supporter of fascism. But rather he was anti-democratic. Anyway, it is a recommendation to listen the whole lecture/speech ;)

http://mises.org/media/1328/The-Mises-and-Hayek-Critiques-of-Modern-Political-State
or direct link:
http://media.mises.org/mp3/Kuehnelt-Leddihn.mp3

Because you are in Holland, you may have the chance to speak to people who were national socialists when ww2 was on. I don't know how you would find them, but if you could, they would tell you things you won't find in the systems textbooks.



And you are using the term nazi in a way that doesn't fit national socialists.

You are correct. Labels and how we understand them is a huge problem in communications.

I can agree with this. Part of the programming instilled in us is to see things as an us v them type paradigm, much like your post here.


This is a critical key to understanding the success of propaganda techniques. I won't try to define "national socialists" because that term is so steeped in propaganda that it has no meaning to me (much like the terms "Democrat" and "Republican" nowadays).

That is a very good observation.


However, I will give you my definition of "Nazi". A Nazi is a fascist (oops, another label everyone defines differently)

That is like saying coke is pepsi. Yes, they are both cola soda drinks, but they are not the same and to equate them in that manner would not only be wrong, it would betray a lack of understanding on behalf of the author.


whose actions are directed at controlling and manipulating a large majority for the benefit of a small minority and to the detriment of those being manipulated.

How do you figure that on the part of the 3rd Reich? You are thinking of the camps and what happened during the war?


Nazis are essentially sociopaths, just like fascists are essentially sociopaths.
Again, how do you figure this? It would be related to the above question, obviously.


Hitler and his minions were Nazis.

Mmm, minions. Ok, the programming is strong in this one. And no, they weren't nazis as you say.


Mussolini and his minions were Fascists. Roosevelt and his minions were "New Dealers".

Probably correct on both counts. I know Mussolinis followers called themselves fascists and still do.


All were sociopaths working against the common good while justifying their actions as being necessary for the common good. We (all humanity) are the common good, and they hurt us.

How does this claim fit the 3rd Reich?


The critical point in all this (including the main subject of this thread) is that we are being fooled. It's pervasive, it's ancient, it's unrelenting, and it's crippling. Humanity is being suppressed. What interests me is why. We must be extremely important in some way to merit this kind of attention. It is the search for truth that drives me. What is the truth here?

This I overwhelmingly agree with.

[karelia]

So, I spent the better part of a day digging up info on the mess that is the GFR. Then I spent another unearthing info that disproves the "commonly known" propaganda about the war itself. Today I tried to find some info about AH that isn't either propaganda or worship, and I stalled. As in absolutely stalled. I was unable to find anything that might even remotely sound like a record of someone who knew him, who might sound like a credible source.

[Lord Sidious]

So, I spent the better part of a day digging up info on the mess that is the GFR. Then I spent another unearthing info that disproves the "commonly known" propaganda about the war itself. Today I tried to find some info about AH that isn't either propaganda or worship, and I stalled. As in absolutely stalled. I was unable to find anything that might even remotely sound like a record of someone who knew him, who might sound like a credible source.

I doubt that you will find a single item that is neutral that covers the period of 1923 onwards.

[karelia]

I doubt that you will find a single item that is neutral that covers the period of 1923 onwards.

So how do we find actual information?

[Lord Sidious]

I doubt that you will find a single item that is neutral that covers the period of 1923 onwards.

So how do we find actual information?

You have to research the info and then based on the surrounding info, decide for yourself whether what you see is real, not real, or partially real.

If you can find a book called ''Into the Darkness'' that isn't a bad read, but it is written about events in 1940.

[Gustav]

- On the differences between fascist italy and national-socialist germany
In my view very little because they are taught there are no diffrences. One major difference to start with would be the approach to individuals. In nazi-germany there was a tendency to centralize the approach to the fixing of the economy top-down. With the stringent monetary policy the nsdap imposed germany recovered much faster from the great depression than for instance the US, which was doing exactly the same thing as it is doing now. In fascist Italy the way to fix the economy was down-top. Policy in fascist Italy also left social structures largely untouched, whereas in germany they were more used for the spreading of the new ideology. Also the militarization of germany after 1934 is much larger than in Italy despite the Italian wars and atrocities in Africa during the 20s/30s.
But yes, you are right that both Hitler and Mussolini are both hard leftist socialist in a sense. Point taken that that would ideologically diminish the distance that could exist between the two countries.


Quote Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
They have a different mindset. Fascists did not murder systematically jews, gypsies, gays etc.
And neither did the national sociailists.

I am not trying to imply that by saying this automatically means the national socialists did ;)

- About the common territory of Socialism and Communism.
Than I would know right (i hope). Altough it is only one source and thus not completely to be trusted, in the book 'Fire in the minds of men' (google it, rather interesting), an interesting case is made. During the various 'Internationale' meetings that are held from the 1840s onwards the theories of revolution for classes in the different countries are discussed many times. There were several large european movements, secretive and in the open that wanted revolutions. Whether it be to abolish existing society or just for social causes. I believe that after the Paris Commune in 1871 (basically a Communist uprising) or shortly before a split in the parties involved in the 'Internationale'-meetings occured. They were all fervent supporters of Socialism. Since many of them had seen revolutions surpressed or defeated on a European level a large group started to abandon the ideas of International Socialism and become convinced that National Socialism would be better, because it would be more efficient to tailor the needs of the workers in the different countries. The International Socialists and Communists are insofar the same that the difference is only the name and the way it is being portrayed. And remember, this is all still way before WWI. Many of the International Socialists became Communists by choice because they were convinced that the great redistribution of goods, services and wealth (basically socialism, but on steroids) combined with the International approach would still be working better than on a national level. The origins of the NSDAP, before infiltrated by Hitler and the whole spectrum, are to be found in that conviction is my opinion.

- About the one party states
Hitler has mentioned many times he would not bother with eliminating the parliament. On several occaisions he stated that he would not even mind several parties in the Reichstag. Why? Because it appears that he has had the same mindset as many democratic minded governments. As long as you manage to let one generation grow up in your system than it is ok. Because, they will not know any other system and will therefore protect it. Hitler did than not care if they wanted to exterminate jews or not, if they wanted to deport people at all, wanted to build roads or not. Wanted social security or not. Because everybody would function within the national-socialist ideology. As is everybody functioning in the democratic ideology now. This is different from communism where the state is to be the party at all times. At least, that is how it has played out until today.

- On comparing most socialist governments to national-socialists
On the basis of my knowledge on the subject, again most governments are national socialists. I should have specified. I mean them to be the national socialists in the sense of trying to accomplish a socialist state in their respective countries instead of internationally. Although it can be argued that with the becoming of the european state and the growing administrative and spacial repression there is a move in the direction the word national socialist refers to nowadays.

But that is enough of this I would say. Not that I do not want to discuss it any further, but it is leading me too far off topic. So, anyone still interested in the textual discussion of political systems just before the French Revolution up to 1945 can contact me ;). Sorry for the long post. I sometimes tend to drag a lot of info into it while trying to paint the picture. I hope it worked ;)

Greetings

[Gustav]

I doubt that you will find a single item that is neutral that covers the period of 1923 onwards.

So how do we find actual information?

Maybe a bit too intensice, but you could go through actual text, if you can find them, from that period. Not what was in the papers, but the remarks of politicians and public persons can give away a lot of information. Hope this helps.

[Lord Sidious]

- On the differences between fascist italy and national-socialist germany
In my view very little because they are taught there are no diffrences.

Who is they?


One major difference to start with would be the approach to individuals. In nazi-germany there was a tendency to centralize the approach to the fixing of the economy top-down. With the stringent monetary policy the nsdap imposed germany recovered much faster from the great depression than for instance the US, which was doing exactly the same thing as it is doing now. In fascist Italy the way to fix the economy was down-top. Policy in fascist Italy also left social structures largely untouched, whereas in germany they were more used for the spreading of the new ideology. Also the militarization of germany after 1934 is much larger than in Italy despite the Italian wars and atrocities in Africa during the 20s/30s.

That may be one major difference, but you only briefly touch anything real in this post here.


But yes, you are right that both Hitler and Mussolini are both hard leftist socialist in a sense. Point taken that that would ideologically diminish the distance that could exist between the two countries.

The NSDAP had a lot of leftist policies, but they had right wing too. When asked where did they appear on the left - right scale, Hitler said nowhere, they used policies that had merit, regardless of the left - right paradigm.


- About the common territory of Socialism and Communism.
Than I would know right (i hope). Altough it is only one source and thus not completely to be trusted, in the book 'Fire in the minds of men' (google it, rather interesting), an interesting case is made. During the various 'Internationale' meetings that are held from the 1840s onwards the theories of revolution for classes in the different countries are discussed many times. There were several large european movements, secretive and in the open that wanted revolutions. Whether it be to abolish existing society or just for social causes. I believe that after the Paris Commune in 1871 (basically a Communist uprising)

The Paris Commune was the second communist uprising in France, the first being in 1848.


or shortly before a split in the parties involved in the 'Internationale'-meetings occured. They were all fervent supporters of Socialism. Since many of them had seen revolutions surpressed or defeated on a European level a large group started to abandon the ideas of International Socialism and become convinced that National Socialism would be better, because it would be more efficient to tailor the needs of the workers in the different countries. The International Socialists and Communists are insofar the same that the difference is only the name and the way it is being portrayed. And remember, this is all still way before WWI. Many of the International Socialists became Communists by choice because they were convinced that the great redistribution of goods, services and wealth (basically socialism, but on steroids) combined with the International approach would still be working better than on a national level. The origins of the NSDAP, before infiltrated by Hitler and the whole spectrum, are to be found in that conviction is my opinion.

You don't know the origins of the NSDAP if that is what you believe.


- About the one party states
Hitler has mentioned many times he would not bother with eliminating the parliament. On several occaisions he stated that he would not even mind several parties in the Reichstag.

Do you have a source for this?


Why? Because it appears that he has had the same mindset as many democratic minded governments. As long as you manage to let one generation grow up in your system than it is ok. Because, they will not know any other system and will therefore protect it. Hitler did than not care if they wanted to exterminate jews or not,

And this?


if they wanted to deport people at all, wanted to build roads or not. Wanted social security or not.

And this?


Because everybody would function within the national-socialist ideology. As is everybody functioning in the democratic ideology now. This is different from communism where the state is to be the party at all times. At least, that is how it has played out until today.

Here is one point that you might have been able to make, so let me finish it for you. In communist states, the state and party are one. In the 3rd Reich, they were not. If you want to see how to determine this, in one example, the eagle emblem used. If the organisation is of the state, the head faces one way, if it is a party org, then it faces the other way.
Some things started out as part of the party and were handed to the Reich, some things were retained, such as the SS.


- On comparing most socialist governments to national-socialists
On the basis of my knowledge on the subject, again most governments are national socialists. I should have specified. I mean them to be the national socialists in the sense of trying to accomplish a socialist state in their respective countries instead of internationally. Although it can be argued that with the becoming of the european state and the growing administrative and spacial repression there is a move in the direction the word national socialist refers to nowadays.

I think you are getting hungup on the title or name of the ideology. There is more to it than that. I would suggest you read up more and see what that is.


But that is enough of this I would say. Not that I do not want to discuss it any further, but it is leading me too far off topic. So, anyone still interested in the textual discussion of political systems just before the French Revolution up to 1945 can contact me ;). Sorry for the long post. I sometimes tend to drag a lot of info into it while trying to paint the picture. I hope it worked ;)

Greetings

[Chicodoodoo]

How do you figure that on the part of the 3rd Reich?

I have moved beyond being tied to the 3rd Reich with my use of the term "Nazi". The Israeli government acts like a bunch of Nazis. The American government acts like a bunch of Nazis. So essentially I now use the term "Nazi" and "sociopath" interchangeably. Why? Because almost no one knows what I'm talking about when I say "sociopath", but most people get it if I say "Nazi". I realize you're being a stickler for terminology here, while my primary goal is to facilitate the exchange of ideas. Usually it works, but not always, despite my best efforts.

[modwiz]

So, I spent the better part of a day digging up info on the mess that is the GFR. Then I spent another unearthing info that disproves the "commonly known" propaganda about the war itself. Today I tried to find some info about AH that isn't either propaganda or worship, and I stalled. As in absolutely stalled. I was unable to find anything that might even remotely sound like a record of someone who knew him, who might sound like a credible source.

Have you ever read Mein Kampf?

[Lord Sidious]

How do you figure that on the part of the 3rd Reich?

I have moved beyond being tied to the 3rd Reich with my use of the term "Nazi". The Israeli government acts like a bunch of Nazis. The American government acts like a bunch of Nazis. So essentially I now use the term "Nazi" and "sociopath" interchangeably. Why? Because almost no one knows what I'm talking about when I say "sociopath", but most people get it if I say "Nazi". I realize you're being a stickler for terminology here, while my primary goal is to facilitate the exchange of ideas. Usually it works, but not always, despite my best efforts.

Ok, got ya.
It's just that if we use the same word differently in the one thread it can be confusing.

[Riggaz]

I’ve been reading about the holocaust and how there are those who believe that the story we’ve been told about it is a great deal of public relations propaganda in order to influence the minds of people to think a particular way.

Now, I’m not for a minute saying that utterly terrible things which ought never to have happened, happened during WWll.
And are still happening today to other people in other countries – but for some reason that pales in significance in people’s minds in comparison to that of ‘the holocaust’.

However, looking beyond the human tragedy of it, the question arises: - was it all an essential part of the greater plan to drive the new world order agenda full steam ahead?

The Rothschilds (‘ptb’ being Zionists and apparently Jews (handy that) and god knows what else ) funded both sides of this war, they were responsible for the start of the UN.
Great Britian wanted US support during WWll, so a deal was done that Great Britian would hand over a chunk of Palestine (now considerably grown and increasingly growing ) if the US could be inspired to join – bring on p*ssing off the Japanese and thereby instigating the attack on Pearl Harbour.

All these moves, and many more, have been chess piece moves taking place under the cover of using human pawns in order to strategically place the pieces to bring about the globalist ‘nwo’ agenda.

It is illegal in certain countries to be a holocaust denier, and even people in countries where it isn’t have been so brainwashed by the propaganda they are unable to discuss the situation with an open mind and an opinion not shrouded by emotion.
Which is an absolute shame, for while it remains an un-investigated and unquestioned event the Jewish people will remain sacrificial lambs to the Zionist movement to attain total control over the world and humanity.

And, while we allow the cockroaches to remain hiding under the cover of Holocaust guilt and censorship they will continue doing whatever it is they are doing to make the world a place that none of us want to live in.

Have at it.

I think it was in the first world war that the deal was done, ref the balfour treaty

the second world war was most probably about collecting on that deal

[karelia]

Have you ever read Mein Kampf?

I haven't, no. When I had the opportunity some years ago, I wasn't ready. Then I lived in Germany where the book is verboten. I suppose I should be able to find it online. Thanks for that, modwiz!

[loveandgratitude]

Mein Kamph was written when hitler was in jail. He called it "eductional time out". The interesting thing about this book is that it is dedicated to his teacher - occultist Dietrich Eckart the original member of NSP. On his deathbed Dietrich Eckart stated "I called the tunes, any tune I called Hitler would dance". We need to look at Dietrich Eckart. I have a lot of material about him which I will post when I have time. So much to say, so little time.

[Gustav]

'It is good to sip, it is great to drink, but it is unwise to empty the cup at once'.

Hello, I have been out for a week or more. I had an overload. I spent 6/7 hours on average a day reading new material and watching new videos since I had been accepted as a member to this forum. I have not been able to cope with all of it, but that is ok. I have heard, read and seen things that crumbled my foundations and now know not exactly where to go next. It is not negative, that I know for sure.
I felt I owed you all an explanation for disappearing when at first I was getting rather active in this thread. But as for this thread, I will provide sources for what I have stated. I have it in books and other docs, so I have to look that up first.

[Lord Sidious]

'It is good to sip, it is great to drink, but it is unwise to empty the cup at once'.

Hello, I have been out for a week or more. I had an overload. I spent 6/7 hours on average a day reading new material and watching new videos since I had been accepted as a member to this forum. I have not been able to cope with all of it, but that is ok. I have heard, read and seen things that crumbled my foundations and now know not exactly where to go next. It is not negative, that I know for sure.
I felt I owed you all an explanation for disappearing when at first I was getting rather active in this thread. But as for this thread, I will provide sources for what I have stated. I have it in books and other docs, so I have to look that up first.

If your foundations crumbled, then you are a lucky man.
Why?
Because now you can rebuild them with actual knowledge.
They would not have crumbled if you had it already, so it was only the worthless stuff the system put into you that you lost.
Oh, and I am not talking about the subject of this thread, I am talking in general.
And I am glad to see you took time out rather than burn out.
Welcome back.

[aikisaw]

I watched the David Icke video "They Dare Not Speak Its Name ... ROTHSCHILD ZIONISM" Time 21:02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dlEX1xD1wtM

It has nothing to do with the Holocaust in particular. It does speak about the propaganda that we are subject to as it relates to the Jewish people and the Zionist among them. How that propaganda is shaping the world as it now.

I am not that familiar with Icke's work and had to spend most of the day in the David Icke debunked thread just to make sure he had credibility. I came away with he is not perfect but a good man nonetheless. I found Icke's presentation in this video to very inspired and worth the look.

[Gustav]

I can't find my posts (my fault, I can't imagine them being deleted), but I made the claim, amongst others that Hitler did not abolish the parliament/reichstag. I have found the precise text and luckily I have remembered it differently than was stated. I must admit also than it was my own derivation than was that hitler also would not care if his national socialist parties would want to exterminate jews or not, build roads or not, etc. This was not mentioned in my information. I would have been correct in my statement if I had noted that National Socialism as an ideology led by Hitler did not abolish the reichstag, but 'packed' it and had followed the statement below. I'll be more precise next time.

From: Liberty or Democracy, E. Ritter von Kuehneldt-Leddihn, P.100 in book and p 111 in PDF-file

The common possession with Great Britain of the English language is not conducive to ideological imports entirely alien to the American scene. And it is interesting to note that National Socialism, repeatedly insisting on its democratic character, envisaged in the far future the restitution of parliamentary democracy of a thoroughly "American" character (see Chapter VI). This is probably the deeper reason why the Reichstag was only packed, never abolished. According to one of our informants the plan existed to revitalize the Reichstag once a new, thoroughly nazified generation had grown up. Then even a plurality of parties could be permitted, since all parties would automatically represent merely various shades of National Socialism. The " Americanization " of Germany then would be complete.

[Lord Sidious]

Ok, time to get this little thread rolling again.
Got a video in a couple of parts for you.
This is Ernst Zundel interviewing a prof in France called Roger Dommergue.
Roger is jewish and talking to Ernst about the holocaust and the 3rd Reich.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=purWmOFl8qc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVU3I8dRtto


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqR0SHMsEMA

I just found this letter he wrote as well.
http://www.ety.com/HRP/letters/dommergue.htm
This is the exact thing I meant about liberating the jews and the rest of us from this story.

[Northern Boy]

One needs to look much deeper then the Nazi party to find the reasons for the Holocaust it also is not as it seems. It did happen but reasons why it happened need to be examined

[Lord Sidious]

One needs to look much deeper then the Nazi party to find the reasons for the Holocaust it also is not as it seems. It did happen but reasons why it happened need to be examined

What is IT that happened?
And why do you believe it?
If you are in Germany now and can't debate this for legal reasons, I have no problem with that.

[Northern Boy]

Hitler was a Jew Austrian . He was ordered to carry this out . Look at the end result of the holocaust . Prior to WW2 we had The League of Nations a precursor to The United Nations. Germany was broke in a horrible situation in order to fight a war they needed to borrow money who would provide it unless certain conditions were followed? Before the holocaust started Hilter questioned the need to kill the jews the bankers demanded it . The House of Rothschild has had its hand in every major event throughout humanity I have seen the list and if need be I`ll find it. They wanted a Global government and a permanent state for the jewish people they were jewish themselves. What better way to get these things then to sacrifice millions in the war to attain your end result . Israel and the UN on land donated by the Rockefeller family long standing allies of the Rothschilds.


Here if you want to read on Rothschild


http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm

[jackovesk]

Hi slvrfx, I figure if we don't open those worms, we'll be joining them :)

Prophetic words Teaki...Prophetic words..!

No more need to be scared of the the 'Big Bad Wolf' (SPLC) Southern Poverty Law Center!

They have been and continue to be minimalised by their own 'FearMongering Propaganda'!

[Lord Sidious]

Hitler was a Jew Austrian . He was ordered to carry this out . Look at the end result of the holocaust . Prior to WW2 we had The League of Nations a precursor to The United Nations. Germany was broke in a horrible situation in order to fight a war they needed to borrow money who would provide it unless certain conditions were followed? Before the holocaust started Hilter questioned the need to kill the jews the bankers demanded it . The House of Rothschild has had its hand in every major event throughout humanity I have seen the list and if need be I`ll find it. They wanted a Global government and a permanent state for the jewish people they were jewish themselves. What better way to get these things then to sacrifice millions in the war to attain your end result . Israel and the UN on land donated by the Rockefeller family long standing allies of the Rothschilds.

Aha, the old Hitler the jew story.
I would suggest to you that this old chestnut has been shown to be not true.
However, what you say about the rothschilds and their willingness to sacrifice their own for their goals, that is 100% true.

[Northern Boy]

I would suggest to you that this old chestnut has been shown to be not true.

Who has proven it to be not true Many Germans say it is

http://www.abelard.org/hitler/hitler.php
Background

Hitler’s father, Alois, was the ‘illegitimate’ son of Maria Anna Schicklgruber—she refused to name the father. This has led to much speculation, but the reality is that we have no certainty as to the father. Thus, Hitler was unable to produce the certificate of origin he required of every German citizen on hazard of death. The various rumours suggest as father of Alois: a Jew called Frankenberger, Johann Nepomuk Hüttler[1a], or one Trummelschlager who acted as godfather. Illegitimacy was widespread in the Waldviertel, now estimated at about 40%. The most persistent rumour is that his father was a Jew, possibly an itinerant trader, at Graz. What little ‘evidence’ there is, supports that rumour.

In 1877, at the age of 39, Alois Schicklgruber changed his name, effectively illegally, to Alois Hitler. It remains speculative whether ‘heil Schicklgruber’ would have resounded as far as ‘heil Hitler’. The name change was accepted by his employers. Alois was a fellow of unusual energy and, by becoming a customs officer, rose to the highest possible rank in the civil service available for his educational background.


Sounds to me like it could be very possible ............ I was born there I no longer live there

[Lord Sidious]

I would suggest to you that this old chestnut has been shown to be not true.

Who has proven it to be not true Many Germans say it is

With all due respect to you, Germans today know virtually nothing of their own recent history and those that do, end up in trouble.
Do you know who Reinhard Heydrich was?
Himmler had him investigate numerous times and the end result was always the same. Negative.
The rumour started at Nuremburg from Hans Frank, the governor of Poland.
By the way, when I ask you if you know who this is or that, I am not being a smart alec.
I realise the way things are in Germany today and also realise that much info is illegal there.

[karelia]

If Schicklgruber was part Jewish, it wouldn't matter anyway, since the Jews inherit their religion from their mother, not father, no?

Here is an interesting bit, from the site on the Rothchilds Northern Boy linked to above:

1933: On January 30, Adolf Hitler becomes Chancellor of Germany. He drives Jews, many of which were Communist out of Governmental positions within Germany. As a result of this, in July, the Jews hold a World Conference in Amsterdam during which they demand that Hitler re-instate every Jew back to his former position.

Hitler refuses and as a result of this, Samuel Untermyer, the Ashkenazi Jew who blackmailed President Wilson,and is now the head of the American delegation and the president of the whole conference, returns to the United States, and makes a speech on radio which was transcribed in the From the New York Times, Monday, August 7, 1933. In the speech he made the following statements,

"...the Jews are the aristocrats of the world...Our campaign is...the economic boycott against all German goods, shipping and services...What we are proposing...is to prosecute a purely defensive economic boycott that will undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends...

...Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike...must refuse to deal with any merchant or shopkeeper who sells any German-made goods or who patronizes German ships or shipping."

As two thirds of Germany's food supply had to be imported, and could only be imported with the proceeds of what they exported, if Germany could not export, two thirds of Germany's population would starve, as there would be not enough food for more than one third of the population.

As a result of this boycott, Jews throughout America, would protest outside and damage any stores in which they found any products with, "Made in Germany," printed on them, causing stores to have to dump these products or risk bankruptcy.

Once the effects of this boycott began to be felt in Germany, the Germans, who had demonstrated no violence towards the Jews up to this point, simply began boycotting Jewish stores in the same way the Jews had done to stores selling German products in America.

Just shows clearly how they play entire nations...

[RedeZra]

One needs to look much deeper then the Nazi party to find the reasons for the Holocaust it also is not as it seems. It did happen but reasons why it happened need to be examined

why so certain

where you there ?


don't you know by now

that the PTB need to lie and deceive

to stay in power


if they told the truth then they would loose

so it's not in our best interest to still believe in lies


the Zionists need the Big lies to hide behind as they are so Big of blame

[Lord Sidious]

If Schicklgruber was part Jewish, it wouldn't matter anyway, since the Jews inherit their religion from their mother, not father, no?

Here is an interesting bit, from the site on the Rothchilds Northern Boy linked to above:

1933: On January 30, Adolf Hitler becomes Chancellor of Germany. He drives Jews, many of which were Communist out of Governmental positions within Germany. As a result of this, in July, the Jews hold a World Conference in Amsterdam during which they demand that Hitler re-instate every Jew back to his former position.

Hitler refuses and as a result of this, Samuel Untermyer, the Ashkenazi Jew who blackmailed President Wilson,and is now the head of the American delegation and the president of the whole conference, returns to the United States, and makes a speech on radio which was transcribed in the From the New York Times, Monday, August 7, 1933. In the speech he made the following statements,

"...the Jews are the aristocrats of the world...Our campaign is...the economic boycott against all German goods, shipping and services...What we are proposing...is to prosecute a purely defensive economic boycott that will undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends...

...Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike...must refuse to deal with any merchant or shopkeeper who sells any German-made goods or who patronizes German ships or shipping."

As two thirds of Germany's food supply had to be imported, and could only be imported with the proceeds of what they exported, if Germany could not export, two thirds of Germany's population would starve, as there would be not enough food for more than one third of the population.

As a result of this boycott, Jews throughout America, would protest outside and damage any stores in which they found any products with, "Made in Germany," printed on them, causing stores to have to dump these products or risk bankruptcy.

Once the effects of this boycott began to be felt in Germany, the Germans, who had demonstrated no violence towards the Jews up to this point, simply began boycotting Jewish stores in the same way the Jews had done to stores selling German products in America.

Just shows clearly how they play entire nations...

The rumour that Hans Frank started mentions one of Hitlers ancestors working for a rich jew in Austria and bearing his child.
Only problem?
No jews in that region for centuries due to expulsions.
As I said, Reinhard Heydrich had the job to find the truth and if anyone could, he could.

Further to what you posted, google this Germany Must Perish.
That is what they wanted.
And all this time later, the average jew is still the fall guy, still believes this crap and will pay later for all of this..................
unless we are successful and show enough people that we can change the paradigm.



One needs to look much deeper then the Nazi party to find the reasons for the Holocaust it also is not as it seems. It did happen but reasons why it happened need to be examined

why so certain

where you there ?


don't you know by now

that the PTB need to lie and deceive

to stay in power


if they told the truth then they would loose

It's ok. Look at where our brother is.
He is in Deutschland where this is all illegal.
Not only that, the traitors in power allow and promote the guilt industry that makes them believe this.
Castigate him not, lead him by the hand slowly we shall.
Mmmmmmmmm, now I sound like that little green communist.

That site our brother linked to; http://www.abelard.org/ is very interesting.
They talk about fractional reserve banking, then repeat rubbish about the number one enemy of that system in the history of the world, that we know of.

[RedeZra]

It's ok. Look at where our brother is.
He is in Deutschland where this is all illegal.
Not only that, the traitors in power allow and promote the guilt industry that makes them believe this.
Castigate him not, lead him by the hand slowly we shall.
Mmmmmmmmm, now I sound like that little green communist.


It's not a castigation but a correction ; )


I try to right wrong when I see it

it's just a life long habit of mine

[Lord Sidious]

It's ok. Look at where our brother is.
He is in Deutschland where this is all illegal.
Not only that, the traitors in power allow and promote the guilt industry that makes them believe this.
Castigate him not, lead him by the hand slowly we shall.
Mmmmmmmmm, now I sound like that little green communist.


It's not a castigation but a correction ; )


I try to right wrong when I see it

it's just a life long habit of mine



Ok, fair enough, I better call off the airstrikes then.

[araucaria]

I'm only on page 5 and this fascinating thread is already zipping off in all directions . So et me start by saying something I won't be reading in the next ten pages.

My daughter is currently writing up her history thesis on deportees to a concentration camp (Mauthausen). These historians are not mathematicians and their sampling methods often leave a lot to be desired, nothing sinister there.

My daughter has focused on a group where no one is left by the wayside. It includes common law criminals, communists and people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. She has examined each individual's file and her conclusions, whatever they are, will therefore be unassailable from the standpoint of sampling.

Obviously given the huge numbers of deportees, this is not going to happen anytime soon for them all. But ultimately, a holocaust is the sum total of individual cases that need to be counted. The figure of 5-6 million Jewish deaths predates the actual event by 30-40 years. I have a reference somewhere. We know a lot of people were killed in WW2, but who, and when, and where, and how, that is the question. How many is the end point of this research not the starting point.

I have a second point with regard to a little known Jewish settlement in the Soviet Union in the 1920s (!) which I fear was a victim of its own success; I shall quote from Ron Chernow, The Warburgs, p 292-3:

"The saga of the Soviet Jewish farm settlements is a forgotten chapter of history. The project spoke to a long-standing Jewish dream of escaping from job restrictions imposed upon European Jews since medieval times. Farming held an ancient attraction for Jewish urbanities. (...) As bankers who were dismayed by invidious clichés about Jewish cleverness with money, the Warburgs favored Jews entering the full spectrum of employment (...) The scale of Agri-Joint colonization was awesome. In a dozen years, it transplanted more than a quarter-million Soviet Jews to 215 colonies spread over two and a half million acres of land. They rode a thousand American-made tractors (...) The bulk of Zionists, however, regarded the colonies as a dangerous distraction.'

And yet, we are told, it was the Soviets who pulled the plug on this venture. Go figure. There was a solution outside of Palestine, back in 1924, but then resettling the Jews was perhaps never the main issue.

Incidentally, I think this is a great example for us at Avalon thinking about a new and different future. We need to look at and build on its achievements, and fully understand how it never came about.

I had a third point, I'll come back later.

[RedeZra]

It's ok. Look at where our brother is.
He is in Deutschland where this is all illegal.
Not only that, the traitors in power allow and promote the guilt industry that makes them believe this.
Castigate him not, lead him by the hand slowly we shall.
Mmmmmmmmm, now I sound like that little green communist.


It's not a castigation but a correction ; )


I try to right wrong when I see it

it's just a life long habit of mine



Ok, fair enough, I better call off the airstrikes then.


no no send them

I want to destroy something

[aikisaw]

FYI in reference to living in Germany.


Northern Boy


Sounds to me like it could be very possible ............ I was born there I no longer live there


Lord Sidious
This is Ernst Zundel interviewing a prof in France called Roger Dommergue.
Roger is jewish and talking to Ernst about the holocaust and the 3rd Reich.

I just found this letter he wrote as well.
http://www.ety.com/HRP/letters/dommergue.htm
This is the exact thing I meant about liberating the jews and the rest of us from this story.

I liked the videos and the letter. Very powerful revelations in both.

I remember reading about Hitler helping with the founding of Israel.
I did not have time to do much research at the time. Here is a paragraph and the link. Pretty good deal in my opinion. http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.israel/2005-12/msg00514.html


Chancellor A. Hitler

Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in January 1933, and on the
7th August 1933 he entered into a Pact with representatives of the
World Jewish Agency, the future Leaders of Israel. The Pact was called
the 'Haavara' Agreement. 'Haavara in Hebrew means much like, 'Moving
house'. The Ha'avara Agreement, was an agreement between the Jews
living in Germany and Germany specifically allowing Jews living in
Germany, the privilege of taking their money with them, usually by a
round about means, to Palestine.

Please excuse if I read it in this thread . My brain is starting to turn to mush.
I'm pretty sure I found out about it on another blog. I just can't remember.

[karelia]

(respectfully snipped)

I did not have time to do much research at the time. Here is a paragraph and the link. Pretty good deal in my opinion. http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.israel/2005-12/msg00514.html


At the bottom of that link is another link I found interesting: http://www.codoh.com/viewpoints/vpauswanderung.html

Reading up on the Germany Must Perish tip from Lord Sidious, my conclusion is that whilst sterilisation of Germans was not achieved, the dilution of "German stock" (sorry, can't think of a better term) was certainly achieved. In the 1960s at the latest, single-mother family units sky-rocketed throughout Germany. Wherever there was an American base nearby, there were single mothers raising their half-American children very single-handedly. Why? Because if a German pregnant woman or mother tried to get child support from the American soldier who'd impregnated her, the Army HQ or embassy contacted would simply deny any help whatsoever. Those women were alone, very alone, because in the eyes of the American government as well as the German government, American soldiers "wouldn't do that." There are at the very least hundreds of thousands of half-Americans in Germany today, probably closer to millions, so, yes, not many "pure-blood" Germans around.

[Northern Boy]

the Zionists need the Big lies to hide behind as they are so Big of blame

I know:biggrin1:

[Lord Sidious]

I'm only on page 5 and this fascinating thread is already zipping off in all directions . So et me start by saying something I won't be reading in the next ten pages.

My daughter is currently writing up her history thesis on deportees to a concentration camp (Mauthausen). These historians are not mathematicians and their sampling methods often leave a lot to be desired, nothing sinister there.

My daughter has focused on a group where no one is left by the wayside. It includes common law criminals, communists and people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. She has examined each individual's file and her conclusions, whatever they are, will therefore be unassailable from the standpoint of sampling.

Obviously given the huge numbers of deportees, this is not going to happen anytime soon for them all. But ultimately, a holocaust is the sum total of individual cases that need to be counted. The figure of 5-6 million Jewish deaths predates the actual event by 30-40 years. I have a reference somewhere. We know a lot of people were killed in WW2, but who, and when, and where, and how, that is the question. How many is the end point of this research not the starting point.

I have a second point with regard to a little known Jewish settlement in the Soviet Union in the 1920s (!) which I fear was a victim of its own success; I shall quote from Ron Chernow, The Warburgs, p 292-3:

"The saga of the Soviet Jewish farm settlements is a forgotten chapter of history. The project spoke to a long-standing Jewish dream of escaping from job restrictions imposed upon European Jews since medieval times. Farming held an ancient attraction for Jewish urbanities. (...) As bankers who were dismayed by invidious clichés about Jewish cleverness with money, the Warburgs favored Jews entering the full spectrum of employment (...) The scale of Agri-Joint colonization was awesome. In a dozen years, it transplanted more than a quarter-million Soviet Jews to 215 colonies spread over two and a half million acres of land. They rode a thousand American-made tractors (...) The bulk of Zionists, however, regarded the colonies as a dangerous distraction.'

And yet, we are told, it was the Soviets who pulled the plug on this venture. Go figure. There was a solution outside of Palestine, back in 1924, but then resettling the Jews was perhaps never the main issue.

Incidentally, I think this is a great example for us at Avalon thinking about a new and different future. We need to look at and build on its achievements, and fully understand how it never came about.

I had a third point, I'll come back later.

Aha, you speak of the Jewish Autonomous Region aka Birobidzhan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birobidzhan
Not many people know about that.


FYI in reference to living in Germany.


Northern Boy


Sounds to me like it could be very possible ............ I was born there I no longer live there


Lord Sidious
This is Ernst Zundel interviewing a prof in France called Roger Dommergue.
Roger is jewish and talking to Ernst about the holocaust and the 3rd Reich.

I just found this letter he wrote as well.
http://www.ety.com/HRP/letters/dommergue.htm
This is the exact thing I meant about liberating the jews and the rest of us from this story.

I liked the videos and the letter. Very powerful revelations in both.

I remember reading about Hitler helping with the founding of Israel.
I did not have time to do much research at the time. Here is a paragraph and the link. Pretty good deal in my opinion. http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.israel/2005-12/msg00514.html


Chancellor A. Hitler

Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in January 1933, and on the
7th August 1933 he entered into a Pact with representatives of the
World Jewish Agency, the future Leaders of Israel. The Pact was called
the 'Haavara' Agreement. 'Haavara in Hebrew means much like, 'Moving
house'. The Ha'avara Agreement, was an agreement between the Jews
living in Germany and Germany specifically allowing Jews living in
Germany, the privilege of taking their money with them, usually by a
round about means, to Palestine.

Please excuse if I read it in this thread . My brain is starting to turn to mush.
I'm pretty sure I found out about it on another blog. I just can't remember.

I do believe I mentioned Haavara already.
Funny thing is, you guys remember Adolf Eichmann?
When he was asked in Jerusalem at his trial what his occupation in the SS was, he said transport officer.
His job was to actualise parts of the Haavara to get jews to Palestine.
He even did deals to swap jews for trucks, believe it or not.
His reward for this was death by hanging.
Ask yourselves this, whilst on trial, why would he need to be inside a glass booth that was soundproof?
Why did they turn off his mic all the time?
Why will they not release his diary/ies and memoirs to his son?





(respectfully snipped)

I did not have time to do much research at the time. Here is a paragraph and the link. Pretty good deal in my opinion. http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.israel/2005-12/msg00514.html


At the bottom of that link is another link I found interesting: http://www.codoh.com/viewpoints/vpauswanderung.html

Reading up on the Germany Must Perish tip from Lord Sidious, my conclusion is that whilst sterilisation of Germans was not achieved, the dilution of "German stock" (sorry, can't think of a better term) was certainly achieved. In the 1960s at the latest, single-mother family units sky-rocketed throughout Germany. Wherever there was an American base nearby, there were single mothers raising their half-American children very single-handedly. Why? Because if a German pregnant woman or mother tried to get child support from the American soldier who'd impregnated her, the Army HQ or embassy contacted would simply deny any help whatsoever. Those women were alone, very alone, because in the eyes of the American government as well as the German government, American soldiers "wouldn't do that." There are at the very least hundreds of thousands of half-Americans in Germany today, probably closer to millions, so, yes, not many "pure-blood" Germans around.

Next one for you. Go google this book and read up on this; ''Other losses'' and get ready to get angry.

[karelia]

(snip)
Funny thing is, you guys remember Adolf Eichmann?
When he was asked in Jerusalem at his trial what his occupation in the SS was, he said transport officer.
His job was to actualise parts of the Haavara to get jews to Palestine.
He even did deals to swap jews for trucks, believe it or not.
His reward for this was death by hanging.
Ask yourselves this, whilst on trial, why would he need to be inside a glass booth that was soundproof?
Why did they turn off his mic all the time?
Why will they not release his diary/ies and memoirs to his son?

Next one for you. Go google this book and read up on this; ''Other losses'' and get ready to get angry.

A mere confirmation of my suspicions isn't going to get me angry. ;)

There was an author, some time ago, I think his book was "Ship of the Damned" that showed how neither the Brits nor the French nor the Americans wanted to take the load of German Jews on that ship. I read it decades ago. Not so sure it's relevant, but the guy was allegedly an investigative journalist and of Irish origin. He wrote about the Vatican as well in a different book, and several other subjects that the MSM might call explosive. It kind of fits in with it all.

**Edited to add**

I need to learn about Eichmann. Last I read was the Israeli spy's account on capturing him in S. America. It's been too long. Sigh. ~returns to google~

[Gustav]

Since this thread has a lot of info in it, is there a good way to summarize it without? Maybe all links could be put in the first post, so people can start reading themselves and not need to dig through the pages (or is that just me being lazy ;))

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Go google this book and read up on this; ''Other losses'' and get ready to get angry.

Same procedure applied in the Netherlands. After the war collaborators with the germans, returning soldiers who fought for the germans and randomly suspected people were interned in the several transportation/concentration camps. For instance, in transportation/concentration camp Vught from july '45 till jan/feb '46 "morally correct" dutch people were allowed to punish germans, 'wrong' children, men and elderly people. I do not know how many prisoners died during that period. There was no law or order, just the random behaviour of the "morally correct" dutch guards who were plain civilians..

The mention of the book of the ships with the jews is interesting I think. It at least shows countries were reluctant to let jews enter. Except if you were bringing business and money (like Otto Frank). There are numerous stories of jews being deported back to germany from the netherlands before the war. Why do that?

[Lord Sidious]

Since this thread has a lot of info in it, is there a good way to summarize it without? Maybe all links could be put in the first post, so people can start reading themselves and not need to dig through the pages (or is that just me being lazy ;))

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Go google this book and read up on this; ''Other losses'' and get ready to get angry.

Same procedure applied in the Netherlands. After the war collaborators with the germans, returning soldiers who fought for the germans and randomly suspected people were interned in the several transportation/concentration camps. For instance, in transportation/concentration camp Vught from july '45 till jan/feb '46 "morally correct" dutch people were allowed to punish germans, 'wrong' children, men and elderly people. I do not know how many prisoners died during that period. There was no law or order, just the random behaviour of the "morally correct" dutch guards who were plain civilians..

The mention of the book of the ships with the jews is interesting I think. It at least shows countries were reluctant to let jews enter. Except if you were bringing business and money (like Otto Frank). There are numerous stories of jews being deported back to germany from the netherlands before the war. Why do that?

I don't want a concise version, sorry. The journey is where you get the info, not the destination.
Thanks for the info about the Dutch camps.
What they acheived is to get rid of most of the people who could contradict the current version of ''history'' and so it stands.
The way jews have been perceived is not always as good people. There has always been a core amongst them of troublemakers and that has had the whole lot classed as undesirables.
We too have troublemakers, but the jews are an alien community everywhere they go, so they stick out.

[aikisaw]

Lord Sidious

Next one for you. Go google this book and read up on this; ''Other losses'' and get ready to get angry

Well that certainly did not make my day.

I found this interesting perspective on this page

http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm


Note: During Cadet Eisenhower's time at West Point Academy, Eisenhower was summoned to the office of the headmaster and was asked some pointed questions. At the time, it was routine procedure to test a cadet's blood to insure White racial integrity.

Apparently, there was a question of Eisenhower's racial lineage and this was brought to Eisenhower's attention by the headmaster. When asked if he was part Oriental, Eisenhower replied in the negative. After some discussion, Eisenhower admitted having Jewish background. The headmaster then reportedly said, "That's where you get your Oriental blood?" Although he was allowed to remain at the academy, word got around since this was a time in history when non-Whites were not allowed into the academy. Note - The issue of Eisenhower's little-known Jewish background in academically essential in understanding his psychopathic hatred of German men, women and children.

Later, in Eisenhower's West Point Military Academy graduating class yearbook, published in 1915, Eisenhower is identified as a "terrible Swedish Jew."

More about the camps here

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v10/v10p161_Brech.html

http://www.ihr.org/other/afterthereich072007.html

I am assuming that Eisenhower was chosen one of the Zionist's through the 1940's and 50's. His poor performance at West Point and less than stellar military career would not have led to the promotions he received. MacArthur asked that he be removed from his staff. If memory serves he had major military blunders in Africa and Greece before being given the Allied command.

The book you reference Other Losses has been around since 1989. I heard about it today.

[Lord Sidious]

I told you it would make you angry.

[Gardener]

I just posted this on another thread, the book tells the the whole history of this subject. Sync of sorts

http://www.controversyofzion.info/

g
:peep:

[aikisaw]

We were having a discussion in a different thread about the meaning of the swastika and the colors that Germany had chosen for their flag. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9107-David-Icke-Debunked-%28Full-Movie%29&p=143347&viewfull=1#post143347

I thought that the people who chose these symbols would have had a very good education at the time. Hitler seems to have had not much of an education at all.
If not he, then who was the driving intellectual force behind the Nazi's?

Hitler originally took money from the Zionist bankers then in 1933 started printing his own money. This made him a threat to the bankers as well as the Vatican. The two have an arrangement of some kind. Thus the bankers declared war on him. I'm sure it is no accident that this when the Jewish societies within Germany at the time also declared war on him.

One thing you can credit the Zionist with they are thorough. When they declare war they are not kidding.

Is this what the USA will have to through to get rid of the Federal Reserve?
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6720

[Lord Sidious]

I just posted this on another thread, the book tells the the whole history of this subject. Sync of sorts

http://www.controversyofzion.info/

g
:peep:

Yes, Douglas Reed is a very good writer.


We were having a discussion in a different thread about the meaning of the swastika and the colors that Germany had chosen for their flag. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13412-China-Pulled-White-Mummy-From-US-Exhibition

I thought that the people who chose these symbols would have had a very good education at the time. Hitler seems to have had not much of an education at all.
If not he, then who was the driving intellectual force behind the Nazi's?

Hitler originally took money from the Zionist bankers then in 1933 started printing his own money. This made him a threat to the bankers as well as the Vatican. The two have an arrangement of some kind. Thus the bankers declared war on him. I'm sure it is no accident that this when the Jewish societies within Germany at the time also declared war on him.

One thing you can credit the Zionist with they are thorough. When they declare war they are not kidding.

Is this what the USA will have to through to get rid of the Federal Reserve?
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6720

Let me ask you this, why do you assume that because someone has little formal education, they may not be intelligent?
I would put to you that other statesman of the time that met him remarked on his intelligence.
This is of course way before the propaganda time.
Oh, and yes, he did indeed take the money of the zionist banker scum.
From what I can figure, he played along until a point where he believed he could make the break and survive.
And as we know now, he was wrong, the Reich became physically occupied and they had to then disperse the manpower and equipment to other places for later.
What some of you would call the Fourth Reich.
But it isn't, the Third one isn't done yet.

You guys have no idea what rabbit holes I am going to lead you all down.
But don't worry, it is a guided tour and you won't get lost.
I will even give commentary.

[araucaria]

Lord Sidious
With respect, I am slightly puzzled. I quote at length from an academic book (which I don't take as gospel, not by any means) on an experiment of the 1920s and, without further elaboration, you quote back Wikipedia regarding the remnant surviving at that place today. I just don't understand what you are driving at. Imagine the same discussion with regard to Hiroshima, what are you trying to tell me?

[aikisaw]

I just posted this on another thread, the book tells the the whole history of this subject. Sync of sorts

http://www.controversyofzion.info/

g
:peep:

Yes, Douglas Reed is a very good writer.


We were having a discussion in a different thread about the meaning of the swastika and the colors that Germany had chosen for their flag. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13412-China-Pulled-White-Mummy-From-US-Exhibition

I thought that the people who chose these symbols would have had a very good education at the time. Hitler seems to have had not much of an education at all.
If not he, then who was the driving intellectual force behind the Nazi's?

Hitler originally took money from the Zionist bankers then in 1933 started printing his own money. This made him a threat to the bankers as well as the Vatican. The two have an arrangement of some kind. Thus the bankers declared war on him. I'm sure it is no accident that this when the Jewish societies within Germany at the time also declared war on him.

One thing you can credit the Zionist with they are thorough. When they declare war they are not kidding.

Is this what the USA will have to through to get rid of the Federal Reserve?
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6720

Let me ask you this, why do you assume that because someone has little formal education, they may not be intelligent?
I would put to you that other statesman of the time that met him remarked on his intelligence.
This is of course way before the propaganda time.
Oh, and yes, he did indeed take the money of the zionist banker scum.
From what I can figure, he played along until a point where he believed he could make the break and survive.
And as we know now, he was wrong, the Reich became physically occupied and they had to then disperse the manpower and equipment to other places for later.
What some of you would call the Fourth Reich.
But it isn't, the Third one isn't done yet.

You guys have no idea what rabbit holes I am going to lead you all down.
But don't worry, it is a guided tour and you won't get lost.
I will even give commentary.

I was not implying that he was dumb. He obviously brought a country out of a depression and had it motivated economically, spiritually, and militarily. This is quite an accomplishment given what i have been able to find about his education.

Are you saying that Hitler was the intellectual force behind the Nazi's? The only one?

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sidious
With respect, I am slightly puzzled. I quote at length from an academic book (which I don't take as gospel, not by any means) on an experiment of the 1920s and, without further elaboration, you quote back Wikipedia regarding the remnant surviving at that place today. I just don't understand what you are driving at. Imagine the same discussion with regard to Hiroshima, what are you trying to tell me?

You mentioned the jewish colonies in the soviet union.
I assumed you were speaking of Birobidzhan.




I just posted this on another thread, the book tells the the whole history of this subject. Sync of sorts

http://www.controversyofzion.info/

g
:peep:

Yes, Douglas Reed is a very good writer.


We were having a discussion in a different thread about the meaning of the swastika and the colors that Germany had chosen for their flag. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13412-China-Pulled-White-Mummy-From-US-Exhibition

I thought that the people who chose these symbols would have had a very good education at the time. Hitler seems to have had not much of an education at all.
If not he, then who was the driving intellectual force behind the Nazi's?

Hitler originally took money from the Zionist bankers then in 1933 started printing his own money. This made him a threat to the bankers as well as the Vatican. The two have an arrangement of some kind. Thus the bankers declared war on him. I'm sure it is no accident that this when the Jewish societies within Germany at the time also declared war on him.

One thing you can credit the Zionist with they are thorough. When they declare war they are not kidding.

Is this what the USA will have to through to get rid of the Federal Reserve?
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6720

Let me ask you this, why do you assume that because someone has little formal education, they may not be intelligent?
I would put to you that other statesman of the time that met him remarked on his intelligence.
This is of course way before the propaganda time.
Oh, and yes, he did indeed take the money of the zionist banker scum.
From what I can figure, he played along until a point where he believed he could make the break and survive.
And as we know now, he was wrong, the Reich became physically occupied and they had to then disperse the manpower and equipment to other places for later.
What some of you would call the Fourth Reich.
But it isn't, the Third one isn't done yet.

You guys have no idea what rabbit holes I am going to lead you all down.
But don't worry, it is a guided tour and you won't get lost.
I will even give commentary.

I was not implying that he was dumb. He obviously brought a country out of a depression and had it motivated economically, spiritually, and militarily. This is quite an accomplishment given what i have been able to find about his education.

Are you saying that Hitler was the intellectual force behind the Nazi's? The only one?

No, he wasn't the only one, if I had to say what he was, I would say the driving force.

[araucaria]

Lord Sidious
With respect, I am slightly puzzled. I quote at length from an academic book (which I don't take as gospel, not by any means) on an experiment of the 1920s and, without further elaboration, you quote back Wikipedia regarding the remnant surviving at that place today. I just don't understand what you are driving at. Imagine the same discussion with regard to Hiroshima, what are you trying to tell me?

You mentioned the jewish colonies in the soviet union.
I assumed you were speaking of Birobidzhan.



I was speaking of a quarter million people 85 years ago, you are talking of a community of 77K in the 21st century, which is to dilute what I was saying not only in terms of numbers but also in terms of history. Why are you doing that - without any commentary - is my question? My point being that a Jewish state outside of Palestine proven back then to be viable was a no-no.

[buckminster fuller]

If you want some information about state sponsored terrorism (wether US or Israel or else), make sure to check out Noam Chomsky, lots of conferences of this beautiful guy on youtube. Really a nice source for information on the macro scale.

He's now around his 70s, I hope this guy lasts for ever.

One thing I want to stress out about the subject of this thread is that in the medias, being anti-zionist actually equals being antisemitic. No turn around on this one, they all become donkeys as soon as the state of Israel gets criticized in some way.
It is a terrorist state, no doubt about it, but being jew IS NOT being zionist and we should always be able to make that difference which "they" are unwilling to make.


Peace


Bucky

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sidious
With respect, I am slightly puzzled. I quote at length from an academic book (which I don't take as gospel, not by any means) on an experiment of the 1920s and, without further elaboration, you quote back Wikipedia regarding the remnant surviving at that place today. I just don't understand what you are driving at. Imagine the same discussion with regard to Hiroshima, what are you trying to tell me?

You mentioned the jewish colonies in the soviet union.
I assumed you were speaking of Birobidzhan.



I was speaking of a quarter million people 85 years ago, you are talking of a community of 77K in the 21st century, which is to dilute what I was saying not only in terms of numbers but also in terms of history. Why are you doing that - without any commentary - is my question? My point being that a Jewish state outside of Palestine proven back then to be viable was a no-no.

I read your posts and I still don't know what you are trying to say.
I sense some frustration from you.
Did you read that page on Birobidzhan?
That wasn't about the 21st century, it was about the time period that you spoke of.
I am not trying to do anything, I just don't get what you mean.


If you want some information about state sponsored terrorism (wether US or Israel or else), make sure to check out Noam Chomsky, lots of conferences of this beautiful guy on youtube. Really a nice source for information on the macro scale.

He's now around his 70s, I hope this guy lasts for ever.

One thing I want to stress out about the subject of this thread is that in the medias, being anti-zionist actually equals being antisemitic. No turn around on this one, they all become donkeys as soon as the state of Israel gets criticized in some way.
It is a terrorist state, no doubt about it, but being jew IS NOT being zionist and we should always be able to make that difference which "they" are unwilling to make.


Peace


Bucky

You know what is funny Bucky? There are many jews who are anti-zionist and they get called self hating jews!
Can you believe that crap?

[Lifebringer]

But its worse, they are also God´s choosen tribe.
This give them a lot of rights too.
Read the Urantia book on the Pentecostal to the gentiles the last sermon from Jesus before ascension.

That statement was a lie after that sermon on the mount.

God was very displeased with is chosen when they sided to kill the Christ. They have forgotten that little chapter in the New Testament. If you control the knowledge, message and books of learning, you control the soul and creativity.

That's all they have done. All else is history right in front of your eyes, if you but look around and see the same stuff on a different day. Manipulation of the masses and keeping them in the dark of the truth.
Or as they say in the Urantia Book: "Priestly fetters of bondage to the material world, and not the kingdom.

[Lord Sidious]

But its worse, they are also God´s choosen tribe.
This give them a lot of rights too.
Read the Urantia book on the Pentecostal to the gentiles the last sermon from Jesus before ascension.

That statement was a lie after that sermon on the mount.

God was very displeased with is chosen when they sided to kill the Christ. They have forgotten that little chapter in the New Testament. If you control the knowledge, message and books of learning, you control the soul and creativity.

That's all they have done. All else is history right in front of your eyes, if you but look around and see the same stuff on a different day. Manipulation of the masses and keeping them in the dark of the truth.
Or as they say in the Urantia Book: "Priestly fetters of bondage to the material world, and not the kingdom.

Which god chose them?
What did this god choose them to do?
And as for the rest of your post, that hangs on a large assumption and that is the assumption that the abrahamic systems are genuine.
I don't believe they are, but many do.

[buckminster fuller]

Lord Sidious
With respect, I am slightly puzzled. I quote at length from an academic book (which I don't take as gospel, not by any means) on an experiment of the 1920s and, without further elaboration, you quote back Wikipedia regarding the remnant surviving at that place today. I just don't understand what you are driving at. Imagine the same discussion with regard to Hiroshima, what are you trying to tell me?

You mentioned the jewish colonies in the soviet union.
I assumed you were speaking of Birobidzhan.



I was speaking of a quarter million people 85 years ago, you are talking of a community of 77K in the 21st century, which is to dilute what I was saying not only in terms of numbers but also in terms of history. Why are you doing that - without any commentary - is my question? My point being that a Jewish state outside of Palestine proven back then to be viable was a no-no.

I read your posts and I still don't know what you are trying to say.
I sense some frustration from you.
Did you read that page on Birobidzhan?
That wasn't about the 21st century, it was about the time period that you spoke of.
I am not trying to do anything, I just don't get what you mean.


If you want some information about state sponsored terrorism (wether US or Israel or else), make sure to check out Noam Chomsky, lots of conferences of this beautiful guy on youtube. Really a nice source for information on the macro scale.

He's now around his 70s, I hope this guy lasts for ever.

One thing I want to stress out about the subject of this thread is that in the medias, being anti-zionist actually equals being antisemitic. No turn around on this one, they all become donkeys as soon as the state of Israel gets criticized in some way.
It is a terrorist state, no doubt about it, but being jew IS NOT being zionist and we should always be able to make that difference which "they" are unwilling to make.


Peace


Bucky

You know what is funny Bucky? There are many jews who are anti-zionist and they get called self hating jews!
Can you believe that crap?

Sadly aware of that... In france we have a showman, the most humoristic guy from here.. (Dieudonné) He did a play about a zionist colon and got called an antisemit right after that. The guy is not jew, but he did invite rabins to his theater who clearly expresses anti-zionist views. Following his play about the zionist colon, the medias here just stopped giving him any means to do his job. No more tv, movies, newspapers... Noone would let him express himself anymore, not only on the subject of Israel being one of the worst terrorist state those days, but to do his job at all. He gets no invites to theaters through the country and is now delivering his shows in a bus circling the country.

Do check Noam Chomsky people..

Peace

Bucky

[Lord Sidious]

Ah yes, the comedian.
I recall the story.
Not interested in chomsky, sorry.
No time for left wing pretenders.
No offense to you, just my tolerance for them is at -12.434 and dropping.

[buckminster fuller]

Ah yes, the comedian.
I recall the story.
Not interested in chomsky, sorry.
No time for left wing pretenders.
No offense to you, just my tolerance for them is at -12.434 and dropping.

I can understand that, still Chomsky does expose stuff that mainstream media will never do. I think the left / right view of things is an old paradigm crumbling down. Still an excellent source for information.

[Lord Sidious]

Ah yes, the comedian.
I recall the story.
Not interested in chomsky, sorry.
No time for left wing pretenders.
No offense to you, just my tolerance for them is at -12.434 and dropping.

I think the left / right view of things is an old paradigm crumbling down. Still an excellent source for information.

I agree totally. In this case, I use that term as most people will realise where he is coming from.

[loveandgratitude]

The holocaust is like peeling away a onion with many rings inside. I hope this article is not deviating too much away from the Holocaust directly. Again...it is taking a look behind the curtain and seeing what was going on. So much was going on...much like a jig-saw puzzle, that each piece of the puzzle is important in the context but as an individual piece does not make much sense. I have been reading Peter Levenda’s research on the occult side of Hilter and the Nazi party. I have been trying for years to tie together the Jews and the Nazi. The only thread I can find is the FREEMASONS. This is lengthy for anyone for wishes to dive a little deeper.

The History
It all started with the Thule Gesellschaft, a pagan, anti-Semitic, right-wing aristocratic society founded by a Freemason and Eastern mystic named Baron Rudolf von Sebottendorff. They met every Saturday in Munich’s Four Season’s Hotel to discuss things like runes (an old German alphabet), racial evolution, Nordic mythology and German nationalism. Registered under the name "Thule Gessellschaft" as a "literary-cultural society", in order to fool the communist Red Army now controlling Munich, this group had originally been known as the Germanenorden, or the German Order Walvater of the Holy Grail. According to Levenda, ‘The Germanenorden had an impressive series of initiatory rituals, replete with knights in shining armor, wise kings, mystical bards and forest nymphs’, including a Masonic-style program of secrecy, initiation and mutual cooperation." But they were not copying the ideological aspects of Freemasonry.
As Levenda writes, "What the Germanenorden became was, essentially, an anti-Masonry: a Masonic-style society dedicated to the eradication of Freemasonry itself." Their symbol was a long dagger on top of a swastika, and their beliefs had been influenced largely by the writings of Guido von List and Lanz von Liebenfels, two men who will feature prominently in our story. Liebenfels had founded the neo-pagan, swastika-waving "Order of the New Templars" on Christmas Day, 1907, along similar ideological lines. In that same year, occult researcher Guido von List began The List Society, part of a then-developing "völkish" (folkish) movement extolling the virtues of Norse heritage, heritage which could be traced by reading the Edda, a compilation of Icelandic legends which Hitler would later take great interest in.
The völkish movement itself was based in part on the ideas of Madame Helena Blavatsky, founder of the Theosophical Society famous for her books Isis Unveiled and The Secret Doctrine. She wrote that humanity was descendant from a series of imperfect races which had once ruled the earth, and which all had a common Atlantean origin dating back millions of years, culminating in the Aryan race, which had at one point possessed supernatural powers but had since lost them.
She also romanticized about the occult significance of the swastika, of Lucifer, "The Light-Bearer", and of a cabal of spiritual "Hidden Masters" called the Great White Brotherhood, who guided human evolution from their abode in the Himalayas and who Blavatsky herself purported to channel during her many self-induced trances. And the philosophy of List and Liebenfels took this a bit further, to the extent that the Aryan race was the only "True" humanity, and that the Jews, along with a host of other undesirables, or "minderwertigen" ("beings of inferior value") were sapping the race of its strength and purity through the evil machination of Christianity, Freemasonry, capitalism and Communism. They believed that the Aryan race had come from a place called Thule, the north pole, where there was an entrance to a vast underground area populated by giants. "Among the völkish cults", writes Levenda, "it was believed that -- as soon as the Germans had purified the planet of the pollution of the inferior races -- these Hidden Masters, these Supermen from Thule, would make themselves known, and the link which had been lost between Man and God would be forged anew." 
There were the beliefs of the members of the Thule Gesellschaft when they met on November 9, 1918 to discuss something of immediate concern; The Communist control of Munich. After a rousing speech by Sebottendorf, the Thule Society began to prepare for a counter-revolution, stockpiling weapons and forming alliances with other like-minded groups, such and the Pan-Germans, the German School Bund and the Hammerbund.
The following year, on April 7, a Bavarian Soviet Republic was proclaimed in Munich, causing the Prime Minister of Bavaria to run off to Bamburg in order to prevent a total Communist take-over of the government. Six days later the Thule-Organized Palm Sunday Putsch failed to overcome the Communists in Munich, and now the Thule members were on the Red Army’s Most Wanted list. Sebottendorf got busy organizing an army of Freikorps (Freekorps) to counter-attack. (One of the units of the Freikorps, the Ehrhardt Brigade, later became part of the German Army, and eventually, part of the S.S.)
On April 26, the Red Army raided Thule headquarters and began making arrests, including the well-connected Prince von Thurn und Taxis. On April 30, Walpurgisnacht, they were executed in the Luitpold High School courtyard. The following day, their obituaries were published in Sebottendorf’s newspaper Münchener Beobachter (which would evolve one year later in to the official Nazi publication, Völkischer Beobachter.)
The citizens of Munich became outraged. The Thule Society organized a citizen rebellion, which was joined by the 20,000-member Freikorps, and together they marched, "beneath a swastika flag, with swastikas painted on their helmets, singing a swastika hymn." By May 3, after much bloodshed and destruction, the Communists in Munich were defeated. But there was much work to be done. The Soviet threat was still very real. With the help of the local police and military, the Thule began organizing a more full-scale national revolt, using connections with societies of wealthy intellectuals. They also began recruiting among Germany’s working class, by forming a group called the German Worker’s Party, which met regularly in beer halls to discuss the threat of Jews, Communists, and Freemasons. This group would later become the National Socialist German Workers’ Party -- The Nazi Party, and in November 1923, they would make their first attempt at national takeover, the failed Beer Hall Putsch, lead by a man who had originally been sent by the German Army to spy on them -- Adolf Hitler.
We all know what the Nazi party went on to accomplish. What most people do not know is the extent to which those actions were inspired by the occult beliefs of their perpetrators. As Levenda writes, "The most extreme aims of the Thule Society would all eventually become official policy of the Third Reich, while its purely metaphysical and occult characteristics were adopted wholeheartedly by the S.S."
Hitler himself was fascinated by the occult. While he was a college student he began reading Von Liebenfels’ magazine, Ostara. Later in 1909, while he was living in poverty in a men’s dormitory and hawking his paintings on the street, Hitler actually met Libenfels in his office, looking "so distraught and so impoverished that the New Templar himself gave Hitler free copies of Ostara and bus fare back home."
Hitler’s friend Josef Greiner recalls in his memoirs how obsessed young Adolf was with astrology, religion, occultism, magic and yoga. Hitler loved Wagner, as we know, especially The Ring Cycle, Parsifal, Lehengrin and Rienzi. It was from Wagner that Hitler gained his affinity for knighthood, chivalry, and the Quest of the Holy Grail, a pagan, Teutonic Grail.
In 1915, Hitler was at war, and while in the trenches, wrote a poem, one which "sings the praises of Wotan, the Teutonic Father God, and of runic letters, magic spells, and magic formulas." So there is no doubt that Hitler’s interest in occultism and paganism ran deep. There is doubt, however, as to whether or not Hitler actually performed any magical operations himself. According to Levenda, this was not in his nature, a nature inclined towards action, doing stuff, accomplishing things here on Earth, in the 3rd dimension. He did not have the time and the patience necessary for real spiritual endeavors. "Hitler was a paranoid", writes Levenda, "and the occult holds special attractions for the paranoid. But Hitler as a cultist? As a black-robed, ritual-performing, invocation-chanting priest of Satan? Probably not.
But Hitler as a tool of other cultists?
Probably so."
In fact, a number of people deeply involved in the occult would have great influence on him and play essential roles in the development of the Third Reich. It would do us well to examine them one by one.

Dietrich Eckart
Hitler, while working as the leader of the German Worker’s Party, became friends with Thulist Deitrich Eckart, who published a newspaper called Auf Gut Deutsch ("In Good German"), which "ranks with the Völkischer Beobachter as a racist sheer with intellectual pretensions." Eckart had a tremendous effect on Hitler, and was he who first introduced Hitler to all the wealthy and powerful people he needed make his crusade possible, including Henry Ford, who would later contribute "vital financial support" to the Nazi party. From Eckart, Hitler learned a great deal about the esoteric sciences, and it is said that they occasionally attended seances and talked to ghosts. Eckart, who died after the Beer Hall Putsch, is quoted as saying, "Hitler will dance, but it is I who plays the tune."

Alfred Rosenburg
Eckart protegé, and soon Hitler’s as well, was Alfred Rosenburg, a man who would later become "one of the architects of official Nazi policies." One of these policies was that all of the Masonic temples in all of the Nazi’s occupied territories were to be raided, and the goods shipped back to Rosenberg himself. This was done by Franz Six and Otto Ohlendorf, both occultists. Rosenberg was also friends with another occultist named Walther Darré, who became agricultural minister of the Third Reich. "Together", writes Levenda, "they ran around the nation drumming up support for an official state religion based on the worship of the Old Gods, a religion that included purifying the Aryan race of elements that were in the process of polluting it and diluting the strength of its blood."

Erik Jan Hanussen
In 1932, after his Nazi Party had lost much ground in the Reichstag, and his mistress Eva Braun had shot herself on Halloween Night, Hitler turned to his friend Erik Jan Hanussen, a well-known astrologer and occultist whom he had met back in 1926. Hannusen is supposed to have taught Hitler a number of exaggerated gestures to use in public speaking, ones which could be seen and understood from far away, and which would communicate a message through body language even if a person could not hear what he was saying. Hanussen had never read Hitler’s stars before, but on this occasion in 1932, upon request, he drew up an astrological chart for the future Führer, and told Hitler that his troubles stemmed from an evil hex that someone had cast on him. Furthermore, he said, the only way to get rid of it was for someone to go to a butcher’s backyard located in Hitler’s hometown -- at midnight, on a full moon -- and pull a mandrake out of the ground.
For those who don’t know, a mandrake is a "man-shaped" root with supposed medicinal properties which, according to European folklore, will emit an ear-shattering scream upon being uprooted. Sometime a dog would be sent on a suicide mission to pull the root while the magician plugged his own ears. Hanussen performed the ritual himself, and on January 1st of 1933 came to Hitler predicting that he would return to power on the 30th of that month, "a date roughly equivalent to the pagan sabbat of Oimelc." Of course, as is known to history, that is exactly what happened. A few weeks later, during a seance held on February 26, Hanussen predicted that the Communists would make another attempt at revolution in Germany, one that would begin by setting an important government building on fire. "The next day", wrote Levenda, "the Reichstag was in flames and Hitler had all the excuse he needed to go from Chancellor of Germany to Führer of the Third Reich." Six weeks later, Hanussen was mysteriously murdered.

Wilhelm Gutberlet
There was also another astrologer, a shareholder in the Völkischer Beobachter who had been Hitler’s close friend since the days of the German Worker’s Party in 1919. In the memoirs of Walter Schellenberg he is described as "a Munich physician who belonged to the intimate circle around Hitler. Gutberlet believed in the ‘sidereal pendulum’, an astrological contraption, and claimed that this had given him the power to sense at once the presence of any Jews or persons of partial Jewish ancestry, and to pick them out in any group of people. Hitler availed himself of Gutberlet’s mystic power and had many discussions with him on racial questions.

Rudolf Hess
A friend of Hitler’s from way back, he had been arrested at the Beer Hall Putsch with him in 1923, and had transcribed Hitler’s Mein Kampf (originally titled Four and a Half Years of Struggle Against Lies, Stupidity and Cowardice) while they were both in prison. He later became Hitler’s Deputy Führer. He was an "intimate" of the Thule Society and was way into the occult. Hess introduced Hitler to one of his professors, Karl Haushofter, a man with an interest in astrology who claimed clairvoyance. Haushoffer later came to wield considerable power in Germany by founding the Deutsche Akadamie, and by heading the University of Munich’s Institute Geopolitik -- "A kind of think tank-cum-intelligence agency", according to Levenda. He was vital in forming the Nazi alliances with Japan and South America, and was responsible for the adoption of the Lebensraum ("Living Room") policy, which stated that "a sovereign nation, to ensure the survival of its people, had a right to annex the territory of other sovereign nations to feed and house itself."

Himmler and the S.S.
The S.S. (Schuzstafel) was originally formed as a personal bodyguard to Hitler, and numbered around 300 when Heinrich Himmler joined. But when he rose to its leadership in 1929, things changed a bit. Four years later, membership had soared to 52,000. He established headquarters at a medieval castle called Wewelsburg, where his secret inner order met once a year. According to Walther Schellenberg’s memoirs, "Each member had his own armchair with an engraved silver nameplate, and each had to devote himself to a ritual of spiritual exercises aimed mainly at mental concentration.  The focal point of Wewelsburg, evidently owing much to the legend of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, was a great dining hall with an oak table to seat twelve picked from the senior Gruppenführers. The walls were to be adorned with their coats of arms."  Underneath this dining hall there was kept a so-called "realm of the dead", a circular well in which these coats of arms would be burnt and the ashes worshipped after the "knight" had died. (There are tales of Himmler using the severed heads of deceased S.S. officers to communicate with ascended masters.) In addition to this, each knight had his own room, "decorated in accordance with one of the great ancestors of Aryan majesty." Himmler’s own room was dedicated to a Saxon King Henry the Fowler, whose ghost Himmler sometimes conversed with.
Outside of the inner order, SS officers were discouraged from participating in Christian ceremonies, including weddings and christenings, and celebrated the Winter Solstice instead of Christmas. The traditional day of gift exchange was switched to the day of the summer solstice celebration. Writes Levenda, "These ceremonies were replete with sacred fires, torchlit processions, and invocations of Teutonic deities, all performed by files of young blond-haired, blue-eyed Aryan supermen." Although Himmler admired the ceremonial nature of Catholicism and modeled the S.S. partially on the Order of the Jesuits, he also despised Christianity for what he considered its weak, masochistic nature. He held further resentment because of the persecution of German witches during the Inquisition.
Himmler, along with Richard Darré, was responsible for absorbing The Ahnenerbe Society "a kind of seminary and teaching college for the future leaders of the Thousand Year Reich", into the S.S. The Ahenenerbe was devoted to some odd völkish studies, each of which had a subdivision dedicated to it: "Celtic Studies", Externsteine (near Wewelsburg), where the world-tree Yggdrasil was supposed to reside, Icelandic research; Tibetan research, runic studies; a strange new twist on physics called the "World Ice Theory", an archeological research in an effort to find evidence of past Aryan presence in remote locations all over the world, such as South America, giving rise to "Aryans discovered America" stories. Another theory propounded by Himmler was that babies that had been conceived in cemeteries would inherit the spirits of whoever was buried there, and actually published lists of cemeteries that were good for breeding because of the Teutonic heroes resting therein. Himmler was obsessed with the concept of the Holy Grail, and hired researchers to try and prove that the Grail was actually a Nordic pagan artifact.

The Allied Occult Offense
According to Levenda, "Himmler was obsessed by the idea that British Intelligence was being run by the Rosicrucian order, and that occult adepts were in charge of MI5." Whether or not that was true, the Germans were certainly not the only participants in the war using the power of magick to their advantage. Levenda provides the details of a "Cult Counterstrike" organized by the intelligence agencies of the U.S. and Britain, an effort centering around the "most evil man in the world", the Great Beast 666, Aleister Crowley.

Crowley had gone to live in New York during WWI after being rejected for military service by the British government, and began writing "pro-German propaganda" for a magazine called The Fatherland, published by George Viereck. Crowley took over as editor. He later claimed that he had really been working for British Intelligence, because "his articles were so outlandish that the journal was reduced to absurdity, a caricature of serious political discussion, which would help the British cause more than harm it."
There is some evidence to suggest that Crowley was working for MI5 during this time, spying on his fellow OTO initiate Karl Germer, a German intelligence agent, ao perhaps his excuse for working for The Fatherland is sound. Whatever the case, he was definitely hired by MI5 during WWII. Crowley had become friends with author Dennis Wheatley, well-known for a number of fiction and non-fiction books based on the occult who had once worked for Winston Churchill’s Joint Planning Staff. He had been introduced to Crowley by a journalist named Tom Driberg, who would later become a spy for MI5 as well, and who would come into possession of Crowley’s diaries shortly after his death in 1947.
Wheatley also introduced Crowley to yet another MI5 agent, Maxwell Knight. Knight was the real historical figure behind the fictional character "M" in all the James Bond novels, written by Knight’s friend in the Department of Naval Intelligence, Ian Fleming. Crowley met Knight for dinner at Wheatley’s house, and it was there that Crowley agreed to take them both on as magick students. Later, Ian Fleming dreamed up a way to use Crowley’s expertise in a scheme against the Germans. The scheme involved an Anglo-German organization known as "The Link", a supposed "cultural society" which had once been under the leadership of Sir Barry Domville, Director of Naval Intelligence from 1927 to 1930.
The Link had been investigated by Maxwell Knight in the 1930s because of its involvement in German spy operations, and was soon dissolved after much incriminating evidence was found. As Levenda describes, Fleming "thought that the Nazis could be made to believe that the The Link was still in existence, they could use it as bait for the Nazi leadership. The point was to convince the Nazis that The Link had sufficient influence to overthrow the Churchill government and thereby to install a more pliable British government, one which would gladly negotiate a separate peace with Hitler."
The suggestion came in the form of fake astrological advice passed on to the gullible Rudolf Hess, who was already under the delusion that only he could talk the British into peace with Germany, and that it was his destiny to do so. One of his staff astrologers, Dr. Ernst Schulte-Strathaus, under British employ, encouraged Hess to make his mission to England on May 10, 1941 a significant date because of a rare conjunction of six planets in the sign of Taurus. The Duke of Hamilton was also enlisted to let Hess know that he would be happy to entertain him should he plan to go through with such an endeavor. So Hess, a trained pilot, embarked on a rather dangerous solo flight to the British Isles, parachuting into Scotland donned in various occult symbols, where he was immediately arrested by the waiting Brits. According to Levenda, "Fleming tried to obtain permission for Crowley to debrief Hess in order to develop intelligence on the occult scene in the Third Reich and particularly the Nazi leadership." But this permission was denied, and Hess spent the rest of his days in prison not being much use to anybody. Levenda finds this suspicious, for “What could have been a major propaganda coup against the Nazis went utterly wasted, as if by tacit agreement on both sides."
After Hess’ arrest, Hitler denounced him as a crazed madman, and began persecuting astrologers and occultists in his own domains more so than ever before. Crowley continued trying to help the Allied cause, but most of his ideas were rejected. One, however, while initially dismissed, was later implemented. This involved dropping occult pamphlets on the German countryside that predicted a dire outcome for the war and depicted the Nazi leadership as Satanic. A forgery of a popular German astrological magazine called Zenit was created and dropped onto enemy battlefields. It was set for full-scale distribution, but the delivery was intercepted by the Gestapo before it could be completed.
Besides Crowley, there were other occultists involved in the fight against the Third Reich. One of Crowley’s protegés, Jack Parsons, who was the Head of the Agapé O.T.O. Lodge in California as well as a charter member of both Cal-Tech and the Jet propulsion Laboratory, invented the "Greek Fire" rocket propellant which was widely used by the United State Navy between 1944 and 1945.
According to Levenda, it was "a solution that could have only come from someone with a working knowledge of the arcane lore of alchemy and magic." (Parsons later killed himself in an accident involving fulminate of mercury. He had been driven crazy and proclaimed himself the Anti-Christ after becoming involved with one "Frater H", who was actually a spy sent by Naval Intelligence to infiltrate the O.T.O. That spy’s name was L. Ron Hubbard!) There was also a Golden dawn initiate named Sam Untermyer, an attorney and wealthy philanthropist once called a "Satanist" by a British newspaper. Untermyer started the "Non-Sectarian Anti-Nazi League to Champion Human Rights" and the "World-Anti-Nazi Council, which both promoted the boycott of German products. He also donated money to the hunt for Nazi agents coming into New York. And with the help of a man named Richard Rollins, he started a secret society called "the Board" which engaged in counterespionage against Nazi groups who were recruiting in the United States.
The World War II that Levenda describes is a magick war, and a holy war, a war in which both sides consider themselves to be fighting the forces of evil. It is a war operated behind the scenes by mystical adepts using their esoteric knowledge of symbolism, astrology, meditation, astral travel, clairvoyance, and mind control against the enemy.

[Lord Sidious]

Very interesting Loveandgratitude.
Mostly correct.
For those who are interested in the SS, google this; Emil Maurice.
Report back here please if you do.

[aikisaw]

I made a correction in my post 329. In another thread we were talking about the swastika and the colors of the German flag.
Correct link http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9107-David-Icke-Debunked-%28Full-Movie%29&p=143347&viewfull=1#post143347

Things were discussed in the following thread that may be helpful here.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13412-China-Pulled-White-Mummy-From-US-Exhibition

Sorry for the confusion.

[karelia]

Okay, so Emil Maurice was Hitler's friend, SS member #2, and when Himmler tried to expel him because he had a Jewish grandparent, Hitler stepped in to prevent Himmler's demand.

Also, I discovered that Google's search engine seems to censor a few site. I used scroogle.org and found a site that may, potentially, be a gold mine of information. I started reading the German section of it, but perhaps someone can look at the English one, and we could do a comparison. http://www.wintersonnenwende.com There seem to be lots of scanned original documents.

[Lord Sidious]

Okay, so Emil Maurice was Hitler's friend, SS member #2, and when Himmler tried to expel him because he had a Jewish grandparent, Hitler stepped in to prevent Himmler's demand.

Also, I discovered that Google's search engine seems to censor a few site. I used scroogle.org and found a site that may, potentially, be a gold mine of information. I started reading the German section of it, but perhaps someone can look at the English one, and we could do a comparison. http://www.wintersonnenwende.com There seem to be lots of scanned original documents.

Right, so you found that the founder of the SS was part jewish.
Interesting, no?

[loveandgratitude]

In 1915, Hitler was at war, and while in the trenches, wrote a poem, one which "sings the praises of Wotan, the Teutonic Father God, and of runic letters, magic spells, and magic formulas."
My understanding that the swastika came from the runes. Runes are a form of ancient alphabet, representing letters. Many runes have been found in Germany. Researchers believe that the symbols were related to religious beliefs in ancient Germany.

According to Rex Curry research he states that -
One of the most notorious runes is the rune that resembles and corresponds to the letter "S" in ancient Germany.
http://rexcurry.net/fascism-third-reich-hitler-nazism-swastika456.jpg

A lot of research on runes occurred before the amazing recent discovery by the famed runologist Dr. Rex Curry (author of "Swastika Secrets"), showing that when German socialists performed the straight-arm salute to their swastika flag, they were saluting alphabetic "S" symbolism for "socialism." The swastika, although an ancient symbol, was used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism."

Hitler altered the flag after his first description of the flag the flag in Mein Kampf (written in 1923 and was published as both volumes in 1925-26). The early German National Socialist Standards had the swastika flat on one side and even pointing in either direction. It was not until 1935 that the current concept of the swastika flag became the official flag of Germany. Many years passed between the vague Mein Kampf comment and the data given in the German Flaggenbuch 1939 and in the VO of 30 December 1933. Everyone who has commented on the design of the flag, completely missed this discovery until Dr. Rex Curry's work. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.htm

Many people do not know that German socialists did not call their rune-style symbol a swastika. It was called a Hakenkreuz.

Most people do not know that a cross was worshiped as the notorious symbol of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hakenkreuz means "hooked cross." It is one of the biggest cover-ups in history. The hooked cross became a symbol of Christian Socialism.

With a 45 degree turn of his symbol, and by pointing new uses clockwise, the leader of German National Socialists highlighted the "S" shapes to combine the cross with collectivism, merge church and state, mesh religion and socialism, and mandate the worship of government. He altered his own signature to use the same symbolism and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens.

The noted symbologist Dr. Curry had previously shown that the straight-arm salute originated in the USA where it had been the early salute to the USA's flag in the Pledge of Allegiance, that had originally been created by the self-proclaimed national socialist Francis Bellamy, cousin and cohort to the also-famous Edward Bellamy, another national socialist in the USA and known worldwide. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html

People were persecuted for refusing to give the straight-arm salute to the national flag. That persecution occurred in the USA (to the stars and stripes) and in Germany (to the swastika flag) at the same time, although it started in the USA first. Today, most people in the USA were educated in government schools (socialist schools), so they are ignorant of the fact that it was happening in both Germany and the USA.

It was part of the dogma that led to the socialist Wholecaust (of which the Holocaust was a part): 65 million dead under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics; 49 million dead under the Peoples' Republic of China; 21 million dead under the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Children of various races and backgrounds attended government schools that were segregated by law and they were forced to perform the straight-arm salute in robotic chanting every morning at the ring of a government bell (just as it is done today but with a different gesture).

Many people considered the raised-arm salute to the national flag to be sacrilegious worship of government and socialism. Religious people had good reasons to consider the pledge / salute to be sacrilegious, in that Germans used the ritual toward their Hakenkreuz flag, the hooked-cross flag.

In ancient Norse tradition wecan see the swastika being called as the Thor's Hammer. In This tratidion, t'is symbol was used as protection
against evil forces and was used by Einherjars (Great Warriors or Heroes who fighted to the death for Justice, for they own people, etc). We can see t'is Symbol in the scealta (celtic) culture and many others, as Greek, Jewish, North American Indians and much more. We can see too in the Palm of the hindu God Ganesha (the elephant faced God of good fortune), and in The Breast of Vishnu (The God who protect the Universe, one of the Trimurti) and even in the breast of the Chakravartin rajam (the wheel rolling kings) as one of the 32 signs of the Universal honored one's body.
So, we can see its symbol too in the breast of the Shakyamuni Buddha too.

As it was explained before, the clockwise swastika is not evil or good itself, nor the unclockwise. And the clockwise represents the creaction forces and the unclockwise represents the destruction forces. Hitler was used the unclockwise swastika to use her powers in aid of hisdestructive works and because the swastika is a so ancient symbol that it is a part of the germanic people sub-conscience archaetipal.
The swastika is a universal archaetipal symbol. Under various shapes, it can be found in the aztec, buddhist, chinese, japanese, denmark, hindu,
tibetan (buddhism and bompo), native americans, saxons and scandinaves peoples religion. The mere word swastika comes
from the sanskrit word "svas" (goodness) and the entire word "swastika" means "All is good". It is believed that it is derivated from the solar ring or from the greek cross inside a circle, that constitute another important symbol amongst the Hallristinger characters. It denotes the daily sun
movement across the sky and the annual season circles, ritualistically refered in the observance of the pagan religion. In the extreme orient, the swastika is acknowledged in all places as a symbol of good healthy, happiness and cosmic perfection.
It exists some indices that the swastika was used by the Church under the medieval age, even if the German National Socialist Party addopted it as their politic symbol because it is a pagan symbol. Nigel Pennick, who extensively writened about the swastika than the runes, has said that the mitra used by Thomas Beckett when he was assassined, showed its edge filled with many swastikas.

In the pagan inscriptio it means:

"Hail, Oh Earth, Mankind Mother.
Shall thee be prosperous
in the God's embrace and be
inundated by fruits to the men's welfare".

It was whispered that Beckett has some clandestine conections with the Old Pagan Religion than the cartarians Heretic religion, and that his death
was a ritual murder. Pennick said also about the kristjan uses of Swastika in a stained-glass window of the Saint Sepulchre church, in Cambridge, and in a church in Cliffory, in the Sligo county where still have a stone of unknow age with a celtic cross and a swastika carved on. All these kristjans examples could be pagan remnicenses, but what we can say about the swastika that was found in the ruins of an ancient sinagogue at the east of Jordan River, as mentioned by Pennick?

The Swastika is directly conected with the runes by the Hallristinger characters [the ancestral characters of the runic futhark alphabet,
according to many researchers, and maybe it was used by the Vanir worship that existed before the aesir worship in north europe, since these
characters is from the stone age or neolithic times. Halristinger characters hast used as strong nature force symbols with shamanical purposes, then I suppose it was used in Space-Craft in the past], as well the fact it is frequently found near runic symbols.

A classical example of that is the fammous menir of Hogby, in Sweden. T'is menir is covered with several runes that was carved on its
surface, as well some greek crosses, crosses of the kristjan calvary, wyrms and swastikas. Pennick tells about the scandinavian influence
oven the neighbour Finland, that hast native shamanistic traditions too. Even in 1939, airplanes of the Finnish Airforce hast used swastikas in their wings. Both militar and civil medals emmited by Finland government at this time was with swastika in the design. But since the german troops invaded France in 1940, the swastika disapeared, with the obvious exeption of the nazi flags. In the early years around 1930 C.E., the british writer Rudyard Kipling hast ordered that the swastika, a symbol that was addorned on all of his books, to be retired. Kipling did not advogated the
national-socialism; as a passionated lover of India, he used the swastika in its old meaning, as a good fortune charm.

The National-Socialism [Nazi] adopted the swastika because it is a symbol that has a great meaning to the arian "race" or to the Indo-European folks. According to their political ideology, an arian was any non-judaic folk whose ancestry was teutonic or nordic. The word "arian" comes from the sanskrit "arya" and means "noble". It refers to the people who was warriors and fighters, and appearednear the Caspian sea with their own independent ethnical identity around 3000 B.C.E. In India, these arian caste is represented by the brahman caste [the priesthood caste] and the Warrior caste know in sanskrit as Ks'atrya. These proto-indo-european folks was the ancestral folks of the romans, germanic, greeks, slavonians, iranians, and according to some researches, of the Central america's Mayan folks, that means of course, the Brazil native Indians whose ancestry is direct conected with the mayan, to have a conection with the Indo-European folks. These ones formed the basis of the nowaddays severan ethnical branches of the european family. More than that, the swastika is an warrior charm that help the warrior to be granted with victory on a battle. Through the forces involved is not infalible, the german army that was not the most powerful at the beggining of the II world war, conquered almost of the Europe and they lost the war only for a tactical error of Adolph Hitler in tryingto conquer Russia at a very wrong season time.

As a charm, the swastika was not good, NOR evil, but only a tool that could be handed by a evil or a good hand. This is the reasons that we cannot deny the holyness of the swastika and cannot blamme it for the crimes perpretated by the nazi as in the same way, we can't blamme a knife of assassination in the hands of a murderer. All the fault is in the hands of the murderer. The same knife can still be used to save someone's life or prepare some meals. The Swastika still being a powerful symbol, and it still can be used to several positives issues.
And why not? It can even be again a inspirative symbol of compassion and benevolence.

It is rumoured that many car logos are from runes such as Mercedes and Mitsubishi.

[Lord Sidious]

With all due respect to you Loveandgratitude, that was mostly a waste of the time it took you to post it.
Most of these ''authorities'' distort much and come up with the most bizarre theories and explanations for things.
He did have some very interesting tidbits in there, but it was mostly fantasy.
This isn't a criticism of you either, just so that you know.

[loveandgratitude]

I keep getting diverted. Lets start digging to find how many members of the Nazi and SS were Jewish.

I found this jewel. A nazi who turns out to be a jew in recent times. Remember this -

http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=10042 LOL

Also a very interesting read - A Book by Henneck Kardel -
ADOLF HITLER - FOUNDER OF ISRAEL-

http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=6743

In the introduction he suggest to find a book called -
BEFORE HITLER CAME by German Jew - Dietrich Bronder
Printed in 1964 - In this book he look at who was Jewish in
Hilters apparatus. Here is a start

Of Jewish descent, or being related to Jewish families were: the Leader and Reichschancelor Adolf Hitler; his representatives the Reichsminister Rudolf Hess; the Reichsmarshall Hermann
Goering; the Reichsleader of the NSDAP Gregor Strasser, Dr.Josef Goebbels, Alfred Rosenberg, Hans Frank, Heinrich Himmler; the Reichsminister von Ribbentrop (who pledged
close friendship with the famous Zionist Chaim Weizmann, the first head of the State of Israel who died in 1952); von Keudell; field commanders Globocnik (the Jewish
destructor); Jordan and Wilhelm Hube; the great SS-Leaders Reinhard Heydrich, Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski and von Keudell II, who also were active in the destruction of Jews. Next came Hitler's bankers and before 1933 supporters: Ritter von Stauss (Vice-president of the NS-Parliament); von Stein; the General Field Marshall and Secretary of State Milch; the Under-Secretary of State Gauss; the physicist and old Party members Philipp von Lenhard and Abraham Esau; the very old party-member Hanffstaengel, NSDAP's newspaper Chief of Foreign Department (later on an advisor to President D.E.Roosevelt) as well as professor Haushofer."'
(8) (Inset: all of them were members of the secret Thule Order/ Society) This list is not complete. If you devote a little time to these findings of the relation between Hitler's sick
hatred towards his kinsmen, with his henchmen on one side, and the creation of the State of Israel on the other, then you should satisfy your curiosity. Nevertheless the author as well as the publisher will be thankful for any new evidence which might emerge.

The main supporters of fulfilling the "Work of Masters" were Reinhard Heydrich, predominantly Jewish (above) and the full Jew Adolf Eichmann (below). As the organizer of the Jewish
emigration prior to the Second World War Eichmann traveled to the country which today is Israel. "The only reason for the name change to 'Eichmann' was to get away from the ancestors name and from the history of Jewish people", wrote the Jewish names
researcher G. Kessler in Leipzig, 1935.

Hennecke Kardel dedicated his work to "THE MOST PERSECUTED IN OUR TIME - THE TRUTH", which is not quite right, for throughout the past 2000 years the "TRUTH" with the "Holy
Bible" is courageously marching on but the people are not seeking it. If they were, they would not be glorifying errors which impede evolution of the human mind.

Kardel's work illustrates to what sacrifices human beings are willing to go if driven by a "superior" ideology. It shows people with their creative and destructive faculties used
almost at the same time, climaxing in the "THIRTY YEAR WAR OF IDEOLOGIES", and as the Author correctly observed, it is the "SAME TIME" in the history of mankind.

Find his book here at this link -

http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=6743

[karelia]

Right, so you found that the founder of the SS was part jewish.
Interesting, no?

Yes, indeed, though the more I'm learning, the less I'm surprised. :P

[Lord Sidious]

I keep getting diverted. Lets start digging to find how many members of the Nazi and SS were Jewish.

I found this jewel. A nazi who turns out to be a jew in recent times. Remember this -

http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=10042 LOL

Also a very interesting read - A Book by Henneck Kardel -
ADOLF HITLER - FOUNDER OF ISRAEL-

http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=6743

In the introduction he suggest to find a book called -
BEFORE HITLER CAME by German Jew - Dietrich Bronder
Printed in 1964 - In this book he look at who was Jewish in
Hilters apparatus. Here is a start

Of Jewish descent, or being related to Jewish families were: the Leader and Reichschancelor Adolf Hitler; his representatives the Reichsminister Rudolf Hess; the Reichsmarshall Hermann
Goering; the Reichsleader of the NSDAP Gregor Strasser, Dr.Josef Goebbels, Alfred Rosenberg, Hans Frank, Heinrich Himmler; the Reichsminister von Ribbentrop (who pledged
close friendship with the famous Zionist Chaim Weizmann, the first head of the State of Israel who died in 1952); von Keudell; field commanders Globocnik (the Jewish
destructor); Jordan and Wilhelm Hube; the great SS-Leaders Reinhard Heydrich, Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski and von Keudell II, who also were active in the destruction of Jews. Next came Hitler's bankers and before 1933 supporters: Ritter von Stauss (Vice-president of the NS-Parliament); von Stein; the General Field Marshall and Secretary of State Milch; the Under-Secretary of State Gauss; the physicist and old Party members Philipp von Lenhard and Abraham Esau; the very old party-member Hanffstaengel, NSDAP's newspaper Chief of Foreign Department (later on an advisor to President D.E.Roosevelt) as well as professor Haushofer."'
(8) (Inset: all of them were members of the secret Thule Order/ Society) This list is not complete. If you devote a little time to these findings of the relation between Hitler's sick
hatred towards his kinsmen, with his henchmen on one side, and the creation of the State of Israel on the other, then you should satisfy your curiosity. Nevertheless the author as well as the publisher will be thankful for any new evidence which might emerge.

The main supporters of fulfilling the "Work of Masters" were Reinhard Heydrich, predominantly Jewish (above) and the full Jew Adolf Eichmann (below). As the organizer of the Jewish
emigration prior to the Second World War Eichmann traveled to the country which today is Israel. "The only reason for the name change to 'Eichmann' was to get away from the ancestors name and from the history of Jewish people", wrote the Jewish names
researcher G. Kessler in Leipzig, 1935.

Hennecke Kardel dedicated his work to "THE MOST PERSECUTED IN OUR TIME - THE TRUTH", which is not quite right, for throughout the past 2000 years the "TRUTH" with the "Holy
Bible" is courageously marching on but the people are not seeking it. If they were, they would not be glorifying errors which impede evolution of the human mind.

Kardel's work illustrates to what sacrifices human beings are willing to go if driven by a "superior" ideology. It shows people with their creative and destructive faculties used
almost at the same time, climaxing in the "THIRTY YEAR WAR OF IDEOLOGIES", and as the Author correctly observed, it is the "SAME TIME" in the history of mankind.

Find his book here at this link -

http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=6743

Let me say that this guy is stretching to the point of including anyone who saw a jew in the streets almost.

Let me give you some examples.

Hitler; Had no jewish blood, Reinhard Heydrich did at least 3 investigations at the behest of Himmler.
Heydrich; His grandmother remarried, after her husband died. The new husband was jewish, but that doesn't make Heydrich jewish.
Hess; He was part German, part Greek and was born in Alexandria Egypt. No jewish blood from what I recall.
Milch; the second in command of the Luftwaffe was jewish and under the protection of Goering. There is a famous anecdote where someone told Goering that Milch was jewish, whereupon he exploded and yelled ''I will tell YOU who is jewish'' as he already knew.
Frank; Ironically, this is the guy that told the allies at Nuremburg that rumour of Hitler being part jewish. I am not sure if he was himself.
Eichmann; An interesting question. He was fluent in Hebrew and was a major player in the signing of the Haavara. Not sure if he was indeed jewish or part, but it didn't save him in the end.

[Gustav]

Okay, so Emil Maurice was Hitler's friend, SS member #2, and when Himmler tried to expel him because he had a Jewish grandparent, Hitler stepped in to prevent Himmler's demand.

Also, I discovered that Google's search engine seems to censor a few site. I used scroogle.org and found a site that may, potentially, be a gold mine of information. I started reading the German section of it, but perhaps someone can look at the English one, and we could do a comparison. http://www.wintersonnenwende.com There seem to be lots of scanned original documents.

I think it is a gold mine indeed. So thank you for the posts. Even if the sources were half-truths, they represent another point of view that I have never seen or heard before. I think the people behind the site are being wise sticking to what they can confirm, because much of this is way too explosive to discuss in the open light. Although that is the place where it should be discussed instead of being stuffed away..

Thanks also for the info on the jewish origins of some of the nazi-leadership. It was actually my history teacher who told me this "when I was so much younger than today". Really interesting.

[RedeZra]

I'm just curious Sidious since you are so well versed in the real events inside the Third Reich surly you must have come across the new technologies invented there and see the obvious link between things like 'Haunebu' and the UFO craze after WWII



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7qsRQyidjKo/S-0XV2nVEDI/AAAAAAAACuM/mCrBixdxvIQ/s1600/Haunebu+II.jpg

[Lord Sidious]

I'm just curious Sidious since you are so well versed in the real events inside the Third Reich surly you must have come across the new technologies invented there and see the obvious link between things like 'Haunebu' and the UFO craze after WWII



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7qsRQyidjKo/S-0XV2nVEDI/AAAAAAAACuM/mCrBixdxvIQ/s1600/Haunebu+II.jpg

That is a whole new area but yes, there is a lot of this and it does have roots within the struggle to kill the Reich.
They didn't succeed.

[RedeZra]

That is a whole new area but yes, there is a lot of this and it does have roots within the struggle to kill the Reich.
They didn't succeed.

Surly the Third Reich did not survive in Germany so I take it that you're hinting at another Reich perhaps a Pax Americana ?

[Lord Sidious]

That is a whole new area but yes, there is a lot of this and it does have roots within the struggle to kill the Reich.
They didn't succeed.

Surly the Third Reich did not survive in Germany so I take it that you're hinting at another Reich perhaps a Pax Americana ?

The Reich is dispersed across the world.
America is host to some parts, but it is not of America.
Some of it is in Germany as well.

[K626]

I notice the deaths at Auschwitz keep getting rounded DOWN.

cheers

K

[Lord Sidious]

I notice the deaths at Auschwitz keep getting rounded DOWN.

cheers

K

Did you also notice the 6 million number doesn't change?

[K626]

I notice the deaths at Auschwitz keep getting rounded DOWN.

cheers

K



Did you also notice the 6 million number doesn't change?


Kaballah.


cheers

Krinklestein.

[loveandgratitude]

LOOKING BEHIND THE CURTAIN AT WHO IS WHO

IN A BOOK – ADOLF CREATED ISRAEL -
The Author is suggesting that the Western Jews financed Hitler and that Zionist Jews also orchestrated the Holocuast myth as to create the state of Israel.
Let have a look at what Jews supported or influenced Hitler and what are their motives. This is going to be very long so I will break it up into sessions so as to keep the thread from overloading too much information at once. Let us start with Adolph himself, at what information can we find about him, what background and what were his motives.


Adolf Hitler - with high probability a grandson of the Jew Frankenberger. Driven by his boundless hatred towards his own kinsmen, this man brought to reality his Vienna's youth dream to settle the European Jews in the Orient. (Whether this can be proved or not still the jury it out on this one). Maser, a German pastor known as a celebrated researcher of Hitler's persona: all the ancestors of this very unique individual in the world's history, a concentration of cunningness, energy and intelligence, have been derived from old fashioned circles, which were deeply rooted in the Austrian forests with nothing else in between. The uncertain black spot in the life of his born-out-of-wedlock Jewish grandfather, Frankenberger, was cleared for sure by three illiterate men Romeder, Breiteneder, and Paukh, and by a document signed with three "X" marks but without the required signature of a very careful village pastor.three old illiterate men were sent to the village pastor near their hometown and one after another swore that the man who died twenty years earlier was Johann Georg Hiedler, "the one who married Madame Schicklgmber", and before he died, he always wanted to adopt Alois, Adolf Hitler's father. This remarkable statement was documented by the honorable pastor, and by the three men from the forest who had confirmed this by subscribing the document with "X" marks (9). Then the Customs Officer changed the Hiedler name (sometimes called Huettler) into the common Jewish name Hitler. Therefore on that April 20 the newborn citizen received the name Hitler. And he was called Adolf, or later mainly by girls, Wolf (Volve), and still later plainly and simply: "Mein Fuehrer" ("My Leader"). And did not Hitler, after he became Fuehrer, explain to his legal advisor Hans Frank, a son of a Bamberg's Jewish lawyer, that he learned from his grandmother Schicklgruber that her son Alois, Hitler's father, without any doubt originated from an affair with the Jew Frankenberger? Why then, for fourteen years Frankenberger paid faithfully for the support of the born-out-of wedlock Alois? Noticeable in this Hitler's story about his grandmother is he fact, that Madame Schicklgruber died many years before he was born.

One year later a new expert on Hitler, Mr. Fest, strongly contradicted Mr. Maser's research results: "Obviously Maser cannot defend his thesis although he presented it as evidence. Anyway all his arguments are doubtful in a similar way." (3) After such a quite correct statement, for Mr. Fest the complex matter suddenly became simple: "In this context the question of Hitler's grand fatherhood is actually of a secondary rank." (4) For the researcher Fest from that moment on the entire question of Hitler's Jewish origin "is a subject of subordinate interest." Let us protest now!
Impartiality is a very bad form of devaluation of any research work. Anyone who does not want to know in detail about Hitler's half Jewish "alcoholic" father, whom he dragged home from the "ugly, shameful, stinky and smoky bars", (6) and who does not want to know about Hitler's endlessly psychotic hatred toward his kinsmen, will understand little about history of the twentieth century, about the creation of the State of Israel, and about oncoming events which will make us hold our breaths until the end of this century.
In 1936, in Switzerland, Hitler's biographer Konrad Heiden revealed about this Austrian part of the forest that one of Fuehrer's ancestors on his mother's side was Johann Salomon, and that it "has been proven that many Jewish Hitlers lived there," and that the "Rosalie Mueller, maiden name Huettler, is written on a tombstone in a Jewish cemetery in Polna." After annexation of Austria into Germany, one of the first moves Hitler made was to make all the villages and cemeteries with the names of his ancestors disappear, and in their place were established military training grounds.
After one and a half century it is very unlikely for anyone to be able to prove that the Jew Frankenberger was Hitler's grandfather on his father's side. However, it is certain that Hitler knew about the child support paid by Frankenberger, and the fear thatFrankenberger could have been his grandfather never left him. This fear dominated all of his life and undoubtedly motivated his actions. When in Vienna He wandered through the Jewish cemetery in search of a grave, and found several tombstones with the name Frankenberger and others with the name Hitler. In then visited the Villa of Frankenberger in Hietzing. He was let in and waited for Frankenberger. Then Mr.Frankenberger entered, a man in his sixties, well-kept and nourished. As young Hitler noticed, he had the same family mark - a big nose. Adolf, having been encouraged, started to introduce himself. He spoke fluently and said what he wished: "Your Family, your Honorable Father, your Grandfather, they did so much good for my Old Master (Father), let God bless Him forever. His son, who is now completely alone in this world needs your help. I do not ask
for money. Help me to get into the Academy. You are so powerful." - The old Frankenberger put down his cigar and plodded across the parlor. "Listen, young friend," he started, "our side has paid for your father, that is true. But no one can say that the begetter came from our side. I am talking about my father. And who said that he was? About your grandmother, let us talk no more." He moved his hand through the air as the young Hitler stood there with his mouth open. "Listen," Frankenberger said again, "I am not a patron of art. I do not know anything about it. Wait" - he recalled something, "here in Vienna we have a kitchen for our old people. Do you want to do something there?" At this moment Hitler took his folder, bowed and left without a word.
Before 1933 much was written in the country, as well as abroad, about Hitler's probable Jewish origin, and his close connections with half-bred Jews of the opposite sex were a subject of fun and joyful criticism. However, after his assumption of power the country people became cautious and those abroad more distinguished. After 1945 the reeducators of the German people were not inclined to talk about Jews' participation in the Jewish misfortune.
For the destruction of Jews' existence - as it occurred in reality - it was difficult to find effective helpers who were not of Jewish origin. In the East three officials were at hand. They were partly Jewish, if not predominantly Jewish: Heydrich, Rosenburg and Frank


Reinhard Heydrich - one of The main supporters of fulfilling the "Work of Masters" . He was Jewish. Hitler most trustful Chief of Police, Reinhard Tristan Eugen Heydrich (Heydrich's father's name was Suess and SS-Chief Himmler claimed and delcared publicly that Suess had "overcome the Jew within himself"),(2) and sanctioned him to finally solve the Jewish question, for one should realize that only by the destruction of Jews an old dream of "creation of a home place for the Jewish nation" a few years later could come true. At the bier Hitler said: 'As the Leader of the Party and of the German Reich I will give you, my lovely friend Heydrich, the second German after me, the biggest honor I have to give you: the German Order of Highest Degree."
Since Heydrich's death, historical evidence has come to light that Heydrich may very well have had a Jewish grandparent and that this fact was known to high Nazi leaders including Hitler and Himmler. Under the Nuremberg Laws, Heydrich would have been classified as "a person of mixed Jewish blood in the second degree", meaning he had one pure German and one half Jewish parent. Heydrich would not have been subject to anti-Semitic laws, but would have been expelled from the SS as being non-Aryan.
The most compelling evidence of Heydrich's Jewish ancestry is the testimony of Walter Schellenberg who stated, in the 1950s, that Heinrich Himmler had held a private meeting with Heydrich in 1935, after learning that one of Heydrich's relatives had held the surname of named "Süss", a common Jewish name. According to Schellenberg, Heydrich admitted that one of his grandparents was Jewish and Himmler had reportedly informed Hitler. Hitler, however, stated Heydrich was special case since "his Aryan blood far suppressed his Jewish heritage". Shortly thereafter, Gestapo personnel were dispatched to Halle, where Heydrich had been born, to erase certain records of Heydrich's past. Rumors arose that this included the destruction of tombstones, but this is unconfirmed.
The accuracy of both Schellenberg's and Gercke's testimonies are today still debated amongst historians. Some works on Heydrich thus far have dispelled the story as a rumor.

Adolf Eichmann - full Jew . As the organizer of the Jewish emigration prior to the Second World War Eichmann traveled to the country which today is Israel. "The only reason for the name change to 'Eichmann' was to get away from the ancestors name and from the history of Jewish people", wrote researcher G. Kessler in Leipzig, 1935.
Because of his organizational talents and ideological reliability, Eichmann was charged by Obergruppenführer (General) Reinhard Heydrich with the task of facilitating and managing the logistics of mass deportation of Jews to ghettos .
Adolf Eichmann was a crypto-Jewish Zionist Nazi, who, together with other such Jews, attempted to force European Jewry to emigrate to Palestine against their will. According to Hennecke Kardel in his book Adolf Hitler: Begruender Israels, Eichmann was a full-blooded Jew. According to Eichmann himself, he was a radical Zionist.
Adolf Eichmann identified himself as a Zionist in 1939 in a conversation with Anny Stern,
"'Are you a Zionist?' Adolph Eichmann, Hitler's specialist on Jewish affairs, asker her. 'Jawohl,' she replied. 'Good,' he said, 'I am a Zionist, too. I want every Jew to leave for Palestine.'"—L. Dickstein, "Hell's Own Cookbook", The New York Times, Book Review Section, (17 November 1996), p. 7.
Nazi Zionist Adolf Eichmann stated in 1960,
"[H]ad I been a Jew, I would have been a fanatical Zionist. I could not imagine being anything else. In fact, I would have been the most ardent Zionist imaginable."—A. Eichmann, "Eichmann Tells His Own Damning Story", Life Magazine, Volume 49, Number 22, (28 November 1960), pp. 19-25, 101-112; at 22.
Adolf Eichmann stated,
"I issued the cloth [yellow cloth for the badges Jews were forced to wear] to my Jewish functionaries and they trotted off with them. [***] There was a Jewish lawyer in Vienna who said to me, 'Sir, I wear this star with pride.' This man impressed me. He was an idealist. So I let him emigrate soon afterward. [***] We even had some Jewish SS men who had taken part in the early struggles of the Nazis—about 50 of them in Germany and Austria. I remember giving my attention to a Jewish SS sergeant, a good man, who wanted to leave for Switzerland. I had instructed the border control to let him pass [***] He was a 100% Jew, a man of the most honorable outlook. [***] I am no anti-Semite. I was just politically opposed to Jews because they were stealing the breath of life from us. [***]
http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2007/11/adolf-eichmann-was-crypto-jewish.html

Alfred Rosenberg. Hitlers chief ideologist was Rosenberg, who also descended from a Jewish immigrant to Sweden.(12), and became a member of aristocracy there, shouted with joy: "Bayreuth is the completion of the Aristocratic Myth. The essence of the whole art of the Occident has been revealed through Richard Wagner - the 'Northern Beauty', the 'Deepest Feeling of Nature', the 'Heroical Honor', and an 'Expression of Sincerity.

Born to ethnic German parents who had a Jewish ancestry, in Tallinn, Estonia, Rosenberg was a hard line Zionist from Russisa. Rosenberg was neurotically obsessed with super-natural conspiracies and dark, occult powers, he was one of the main disseminators of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. In 1930 Rosenberg was elected to the Reichstag as deputy for Hessen- Darmstadt and published his major work, Mythus der XX Jahrhunderts (The Myth of the Twentieth Century), which was second only to Hitler’s own work Mein Kampf as the bible of the Nazi movement. Though few could fully grasp the author’s style, it sold over half a million copies by the end of 1936, 680,000 copies by 1938 and it passed the million mark in 1942.

 Alfred Rosenberg had German, Estonian and Jewish ancestry, perhaps he was 1/32 jewish and 1/4 or 1/8 Estonian (estonians have Mongoloid [asiatic] haplogroups). Some researchers say his ancenstory was from Khazarian Jewish stock. Many Jewish hide their Jewishness for one reason or another. The name Rosenberg can be Jewish or German.



Wagner - The Opera was luring to Hilter. Wagner was his hero. After he read, what Wagner once confessed to Nietzsche, the philosopher, that "he really was a biological son of his stepfather, the Jewish actor Ludwig Geyer," he didn't miss any of his performances Wagner too, the maker of the Nordic Myths was a Jew! Hitler like Wagner, also had to FIGHT TO OVERCOME THE JEWISHNESS IN HIM. Thus the Wagner's grave and Bayreuth became to Hitler, the sites of pilgrimage.

Grill - In Schoenbrunner Park stood a bench, where Hitler hungry for air and sun usually withdrew to. It just happened that a man named Grill walked by, and glancing there at the bench saw lying around anti-Semitic fliers, mainly "Ostara" magazines. (Ostara is the name of the Virgin Goddess of Spring in ancient Germany , probably connected to Ishtar) After a short hesitation he sat down on
a clear spot and pulled out of his coat a reproduced writing saying: "Here, take this. It is a gift from me." Hitler took a look at him and then at the writing entitled: "Against the Church's Official Machinery." It turned out that Grill, with the help of his writings, was trying to promote among people a religion of real and pure love. When Hitler started talking about the Jews as "people's parasites", who always are against good intentions, they met themselves at the subject. In this way
the two zealots found each other. At last someone appeared who followed Hitler and who could be
challenged in a political discussion, and who would not submissively nod like Kubizek. Grill came to this spot and promoted his teaching about true love almost every day. Hitler agreed with him with one exception that the Jews should be left out. Grill was a drop-out priest, who had spent his youth in a Catholic Monastery, and his point of view on this matter was different from Hitler's. One day, when their discussion reached a zenith, Grill suddenly confessed: "I was born a Jew! My father was a Rabbi." Since then Hitler's bonds with these people became stronger and lasted for
years. Finally Hitler moved to a cabin in the Men's Hostel at the Meldemannstrasse where Grill made a living by addressing envelopes. From this traitor of Jewishness and of Catholic Church, Hitler could learn a lot. During long walks through the parks they exchanged opinions with each
other. Grill taught his new friend Yiddish, too. They also walked for hours through the inner city and districts North of the Danube Channel, where Jews were numerous and easy to observe. Among almost two million residents of Vienna, about 200,000 were Jews, that is, ten percent. They spent
many evenings and nights with Grill's friends - the Jewish Rabbis, and talked with them until their heads got hot.
Then Hitler want to visit the Holy Cross of the Cistercian Monastery in Wienerwald to get the address of Mr.Lanz, the publisher of "Ostara" magazines, i.e. to the Messenger of a New Racial Order. In 1899, out of this Monastery came Adolf Josef Lanz, also known as Brother Joerg. He united with a Jewess Liebenfels and since then called himself Dr.Georg Lanz von Liebenfels. Later on he rose his father Lanz, an upright Vienna teacher, to the nobility title of a Baron.
About his mother, born Hopfenreich (whose father was a Jew), he kept a conspicuous silence. Since 1905 he distributed "Ostara" magazines, which sometimes reached a circulation of 100,000.

Dr.Georg Lanz von Liebenfels – publisher of “Ostara”started by a half Jew named Adolf Joseph Lanz who married to Jewess Libenfels, changed his name to Dr. Georg Lanz von Liebenfels ... despite his radical views on race, was rejected by the Nazi when he applied for membership due to the fact that he was half-Jew. This magazine was an inspiration for Hitler.
The "Ostara" magazine printed on its front covers: "Are you blond? Are you male? If you do not know then read 'Ostara's' library about blond and legitimate males! Through OSTARA anti-semitisim started. In the "Ostara" magazines of 1908 and 1909 were given instructions on how to measure body parts, and from them one could find out whether one has some Nordic traits. Because of Lanz's medical achievements, men important in public life visited him frequently. To them, for instance, belonged a Swedish author August Strindberg and an English Lord, in rank a British Fieldmarshall, nobleman Herbert Kitchener, who assured him that he will "Keep the
stage racially clean, and will send the colored ruthlessly into the fire."
Lanz von Liebenfels established a (Thule) Order (Society), and with the money coming from various sources created Order-Castles. In 1907, above the Castle Werfenstein he hoisted up a swastika flag.
This is what Lanz von Liebenfels wrote to his brother Aemilius on February 22, 1932,One year before Hitler came to power: "Do you know that Hitler is our best student? You will see that he and through him we, too, will succeed and will stir up a movement, which will make the whole world shiver. Heil you!" Note that Liebenfels and Crowley were friends.

Moses Hess (1812-1875) Moses Hess was born in Bonn, Germany and died in Paris, France. He was practiced Orthodox Judaism but broke away and embraced the Kabbalah. In 1837, he anonymously published his first book, “The Holy History of Mankind,” which revealed his ideas on anarchic socialism. In 1841, he founded the radical newspaper, “Rheineische Zeitung.” In 1842 he promoted Karl Marx, a German Jew to chief editor. Hess introduced Marx to the Freemasons and to communism. In 1844, Hess introduced Marx to the German Jew Friedrich Engels. Moses Hess is considered the father of two political movements: communism and Zionism. He was buried in Cologne, Germany, but in 1961 his remains were re-buried in the graveyard of Kineret (Lake of Galilee, Israel) next to the graves of other founders of the modern Zionist socialist movement.
http://www.eaec.org/newsletters/2008/vol_8/showdown-in-jerusalem-digest.htm

Theodor Herzl - THE FATHER OF ZIONISM(1860-1904)
Theodor Herzl was born in Pest, Hungary and died in Vienna, Austria. Even though he graduated from law school in 1884, he became a writer involved with Zionism. He wrote books and various plays about the problems facing the society of his day. From 1891 to 1895, Herzl served as the Paris correspondent for the Vienna newspaper, “The Free Press,” an influential liberal Vienna daily newspaper.
As a successful play-write, Herzl was able to use his influence to promote the idea of an independent Palestinian state. With the rising of anti-Semitism in France, he began to write articles and plays promoting his ideas of how to solve the Jewish issues by having young Jews join the Socialistic movement en mass. He later took a hard stand that the only solution to establish a homeland for the Jewish people was a mass exodus of Jews from countries which were anti-Semitic. In 1895 he wrote a plan to relocate Jews to Palestine.  He looked for financial backing from the Rothschild’s when he presented his plan. Max Nordeau (1849-1923), a Hungarian Jew became a supporter of it.
In 1896, Herzl published a book called, “Der Judenstaat,” in which he outlined his plan to relocate the Jews to Palestine. The first step was to build a strong political base. The book stirred up emotions in the Jewish community worldwide. The Jewish communities in Western Europe rejected the proposal while the poorer Jewish communities in Eastern Europe and Russia embraced the idea of a Jewish homeland; the Zionist Movement was born with Theodor Herzl as the Father. Herzl knew that a gradual colonizing would only stimulate anti-Semitism, so he advocated a population transfer under international supervision. )MORE OF HIM LATER)
Very few leaders of the Zionistic movement were religious. Many of them didn’t believe in God nor had a regard for the Old Testament. Most of them were atheistic or agnostic and similar to secular Jews today. It was not Judaism, but anti-Semitism created by the Jewish leadership which antagonized the Gentiles that helped to create the political state of Israel. Herzl’s plan outlined two organizations that needed to be built before the transfers of Jews could start:
Theodor Herzl promised Christian governments good discounts on former Jewish holdings and had no mercy on Jews. They were to give up all their homes, savings, properties and business and move to Palestine and live in kibbutzim.
When Jewish people rejected the idea, Herzl warned them, “Great exertions will hardly be necessary to spur on the movement. Anti-Semites need only to do what they did before and then they will create a Jewish desire to emigrate where it did not previously exist.”
 At this time the system was in place to move Jews from Europe to Palestine.In order to get the Jews moving, Theodor Herzl become the “Shepherd” and Hitler was to became the “Prosecutor.”
ZIONIST SYMPATHIZERS
Various groups have worked separately with achieving the goals of Theodor Herzl: -
Anti-Jewish publication in Vienna called “Ostara” started by a half Jew named Adolf Joseph Lanz who married to Jewess Libenfels, changed his name to Dr. Georg Lanz von Liebenfels and later added the title Baron. The magazine was blatantly anti-Semitic and promoted the Roman Catholic Church and the pure Aryan race.
The very same magazine that Hitler was connected to. In 1909 Adolf Hitler (a half Jew) met with Lanz and became his student. Lanz told Lenin in Switzerland, “We counter-revolutionaries give Jews the right to create their own state in Palestine.”
http://www.eaec.org/newsletters/2008/vol_8/showdown-in-jerusalem-digest.htm

[Lord Sidious]

I already posted my thoughts on this concept.
Whether I am taken to be right or wrong is an individual thing.
I would suggest people make up their own minds on what they can find.

[karelia]

I've drawn some, if tentative conclusions from reading these posts, following links, and finding more links.

1. I'm beginning to think trying to figure out which one of the big fish of the Third Reich was jewish or not is quite futile. My grandfather was allegedly jewish, but that surely does not make me a zionist. Zionism is an ideology, and it's also a very hypocritical thing imo because the biggest fish amongst the zionists would never, ever consider moving to Israel, now, would they...

2. Hitler himself wasn't anywhere near as anti-semitic as TPTW make him, but he appeared to have a few big fish on his side who had no scruples wishing them dead in any which way. Himmler seemed to be a bit obsessed with that (and I haven't come across any others in detail).

3. It's all still a huge can of worms, but piecing together the truth, bit by bit, is a tremendously exciting project and also empowering in that I realise just how much programming I'm still having to rid myself off and that I can indeed succeed.

4. Once we know the entire truth about that, we'll probably find it a lot easier to piece together the entire truth about alien contact with the Third Reich and that hopefully not all of that knowledge fell into false hands.

[Lord Sidious]

I've drawn some, if tentative conclusions from reading these posts, following links, and finding more links.

1. I'm beginning to think trying to figure out which one of the big fish of the Third Reich was jewish or not is quite futile. My grandfather was allegedly jewish, but that surely does not make me a zionist. Zionism is an ideology, and it's also a very hypocritical thing imo because the biggest fish amongst the zionists would never, ever consider moving to Israel, now, would they...

2. Hitler himself wasn't anywhere near as anti-semitic as TPTW make him, but he appeared to have a few big fish on his side who had no scruples wishing them dead in any which way. Himmler seemed to be a bit obsessed with that (and I haven't come across any others in detail).

3. It's all still a huge can of worms, but piecing together the truth, bit by bit, is a tremendously exciting project and also empowering in that I realise just how much programming I'm still having to rid myself off and that I can indeed succeed.

4. Once we know the entire truth about that, we'll probably find it a lot easier to piece together the entire truth about alien contact with the Third Reich and that hopefully not all of that knowledge fell into false hands.

Go and find the orders that Himmler gave to stop the deaths from typhus in the camps, in 1944 I believe, at all costs.
That may be an eyeopener for you.

[karelia]

Go and find the orders that Himmler gave to stop the deaths from typhus in the camps, in 1944 I believe, at all costs.
That may be an eyeopener for you.

Gee, did you hear my gasp across the planet???

Here: http://fathersmanifesto.net/fields.htm

Heinrich Himmler, chief of the Concentration Camps issued orders on Dec. 28, 1942, that "The death rate in the concentration camps must be reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, "The Final Solution.") The camps had been hit with a deadly typhus epidemic that spread by fleas and body lice. Stomach pain, high fever, emaciation and death can quickly follow. All of the camps were factories and the loss of workers was hurting war production. Inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks responded to Himmler's order on Jan 20, 1943, "Every means will be used to lower the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Tribunal Document No. 1523.) On April 10, 1943, Oswald Pohl, head of the Economic Administration Office of the camps issued a letter stating that persons with tuberculosis were being sent to the camps resulting in the "shockingly high mortality figures." (Source: Nuremberg Documents.) Later on Sept. 30, 1943, Pohl was able to show that the camp death rate had been reduced from 8.5% in July, 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943. The German SS arrested Buchenwald Commandant, Karl Koch in 1943 for mistreating and even executing some prisoners. After an investigation Koch was found guilty by SS Judge Konrad Morgen and shot. Does this sound like a policy of "extermination?" With suspicion rapidly rising about the holocaust claim a committee of Jewish leaders from New York and Paris met with communist leaders in Warsaw. There they established the "Committee for the Investigation of War Crimes and War Criminals". It was after this meeting that the announcement was made that all gas chambers were located in Poland.

Okay, that's one conclusion gone with the wind. Although, my gut feeling still tells me I may be into something there. It may be programming, though.

[Lord Sidious]

So what do you make of Reichsfuhrer SS Himmler telling them to stop the deaths, even as they say they were increasing them?
Someone has to be lying.

[karelia]

So what do you make of Reichsfuhrer SS Himmler telling them to stop the deaths, even as they say they were increasing them?
Someone has to be lying.

Of course someone is lying; that is not a question.

What I make of it was that Himmler was more of a humanitarian than the PTW. Not that that means a lot, given the crimes on humanity they have committed and are still committing on a daily basis. Which leads me to believe that they were ticking on a different frequency, so to speak. The PTW seem to want and actively invite misery so they can feed of it. They would have done nothing to stop the typhoid and instead supplied a continuous stream of new labour to replace those who'd died. Himmler wanted a decent slave labour force so he would get things done.

[Lord Sidious]

So what do you make of Reichsfuhrer SS Himmler telling them to stop the deaths, even as they say they were increasing them?
Someone has to be lying.

Of course someone is lying; that is not a question.

What I make of it was that Himmler was more of a humanitarian than the PTW. Not that that means a lot, given the crimes on humanity they have committed and are still committing on a daily basis. Which leads me to believe that they were ticking on a different frequency, so to speak. The PTW seem to want and actively invite misery so they can feed of it. They would have done nothing to stop the typhoid and instead supplied a continuous stream of new labour to replace those who'd died. Himmler wanted a decent slave labour force so he would get things done.

That is entirely possible, the SS did rent out the prisoners as labourers.
On the other hand, if a whole stack of them died, I think they knew they would be accused of genocide and other rubbish too.
6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other.

[K626]

The Book to read is:

THE HOLOCAUST ON TRIAL by DD Guttenplan.

It has complete coverage of the David Irving trial in London and many fasicnating details.


K

[karelia]

That is entirely possible, the SS did rent out the prisoners as labourers.
On the other hand, if a whole stack of them died, I think they knew they would be accused of genocide and other rubbish too.
6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other.

They knew, yes, likely. That puts them way above the PTW, I think...

Found another interesting bit here: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/eichmann.htm

[Lord Sidious]

That is entirely possible, the SS did rent out the prisoners as labourers.
On the other hand, if a whole stack of them died, I think they knew they would be accused of genocide and other rubbish too.
6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other.

They knew, yes, likely. That puts them way above the PTW, I think...

Found another interesting bit here: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/eichmann.htm

That link seems to be accurate.
Thanks for that one.

[aikisaw]

That is entirely possible, the SS did rent out the prisoners as labourers.
On the other hand, if a whole stack of them died, I think they knew they would be accused of genocide and other rubbish too.
6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other.

They knew, yes, likely. That puts them way above the PTW, I think...

Found another interesting bit here: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/eichmann.htm

I liked the web site you linked. I saw this there.


It is this non-stop brainwashing which has enabled the Jewish Lobby in Washington to extract multi-billions out of government in foreign aid. It is the excuse for all of their attacks upon the Palestinians. In other words: the holocaust gives the Jews immunity from criticism, redardless of the atrocities committed by their military and professional assassins - the MOSSAD secret police!

[karelia]

I liked the web site you linked. I saw this there.


It is this non-stop brainwashing which has enabled the Jewish Lobby in Washington to extract multi-billions out of government in foreign aid. It is the excuse for all of their attacks upon the Palestinians. In other words: the holocaust gives the Jews immunity from criticism, redardless of the atrocities committed by their military and professional assassins - the MOSSAD secret police!

Collecting these kinds of links are important, I think, because depending on the keywords used, quite a lot of tripe appears, too.

[loveandgratitude]

WHO WAS WHO IN WORLD WAR 2
I feel that it is important to look at how many jews had influcence/friends or were part of Hilters support. If we can understand this, then we can move on to why would Jews be killing Jews? When we get to this point, I feel many doors will open as to what is happening today under our very noses. Really the same senario. The importance from learning from history so history does not repeat itself. I don’t know where history is going to go but, I do know where we have already been. The same people play the same game over and over again and they get really good at it.
For those of us that know the truth of the evils that the elite and wealthy ones do to their fellow human beings, that we are constantly lied to and how they get away with what they do, maybe we need to look deeply into history.
Firstly, I have found a copy of – BEFORE HITLER CAME - http://www.scribd.com/doc/18941614/Bronder-Before-Hitler-Came-A-Historical-Study-English-Translation1975

Following along the path of information in Kardell's book – Kardell states -

A very special influence over the twenty year old Hitler had two outstanding (Jewish) adversaries, the Ritter (Knight) von Schoenerer and his follower, lawyer Dr.Lueger, who became Mayor of Vienna. Hitler devoured their writings and manifestations like he did with the "Ostara" magazines.
The difference between Schoenerer with his "All German Union", borrowed from Caesar, and the", was what Schoenerer asserted: "A Jew stays a Jew" to which Lueger counter-argued: "Christ is a baptized Jew." At that time Hitler was distributing flyers for Lueger.
There was no difference of opinion between these two leading Austrian antagonists as to selection of Jews or half-Jews for their closest cooperatives. For Schoenerer first in line was Galician author Karl Emil Franzos. For the latter would be a Social Democrat Viktor Adler, co-author of the Linz's "Great-German Program": "One People, One Empire!" Next was Heinrich Fnedjung from Maehren, also a Jew. Lueger's representative was Vienna's Second Mayor, half- Jew Porzer. The famous saying: "I will determine who is a Jew" came from Dr.Lueger. From their work, years before establishment of the N.S.D.A.P. of Munich, originated the National Socialist German Worker's Party N.S.D.A.P.) of Sudeten. Karl Wolff, previously a Parliamentarian for Schoenerer was the Party's establisher.
However, Schoenerer was thinking in terms of race but was not a socialist. Lueger was a socialist and therefore anti- Jewish, but not a racist. That's how the two men parted. From one man Hitler took the concept of race, from the other of socialism.
In Hitler's eyes Dr. Lueger was the "most powerful German Mayor of all times," and also in 1945 the newly emerged Socialists of Vienna associated this Jewish opponent with themselves: "Everything that was created at that time, bore Lueger's personal note; had originated out of his own initiative, or were decreed by him. Dr. Lueger became the man who paved the way for the Communal Socialism which, as an outcome of the productive strength of the Socialist Workers' Party of Vienna, was supposedly to fruit ten years after Lueger's death." Young Hitler was not all right with the Socialist Workers' Party of Vienna.


So lets look at who these people were - .

Ritter (Knight) von Schoenerer - Part/Jew on his mothers side, Kohen. “Schönerer developed a political philosophy that featured elements of violent antisemitism, anti-Slavism, anti-Catholicism, authoritarianism, popular solidarism, nationalism, and pan-Germanism, themes which appealed to many lower class Viennese. '
In 1888, Schönerer was temporarily imprisoned for ransacking a Jewish-owned newspaper office and assaulting its employees. This action increased Schönerer’s popularity and helped members of his party get elected to the Austrian Parliament. The prison sentence also resulted in the loss of his status as an Austrian noble.

Schönerer was reelected to the Reichsrat in 1897, and later that same year helped orchestrate the expulsion of Prime Minister Kasimir Felix Graf Badeni from office. Count Badeni had proclaimed that all civil servants in Austrian-controlled Bohemia would have to know the Czech language, an ordinance which prevented many ethnic German-speakers in Bohemia (the majority of whom could not speak Czech) from applying for governmental jobs.

Schönerer staged mass protests against the ordinance and disrupted parliamentary proceedings; actions which eventually caused Emperor Franz Joseph to dismiss Badeni. Schönerer became even more powerful in 1901, when 21 members of his party gained seats in the Austrian Parliament.

Dr. Karl Lueger - Vienna's elected Mayor,, with his "Christian-Social Party. I cannot find anything to suggest that he was a jew. In 1872, having decided upon a political career, he joined an independent Liberal political organization, the Citizens' Club of the Landstrasse, one of the districts, or wards, of Vienna. Liberalism, which had guided Austria from aristocracy to democracy in government, was at this period the one political creed the profession of which offered any prospect of success in practical politics. But Liberalism had come to mean economic advancement for the capitalist at the cost of the small tradesman, the capitalist being usually a Jew. The result was an appalling material moral degradation and a regime of political corruption focussed at Vienna, which city in the seventies of the last century was the most backward capital in Europe, enormously overtaxed, and with a population sunk in a lazy indifference, political, economic, and religious. The Jewish Liberalism ruled supreme in city and country public opinion was moulded by a press almost entirely Jewish and anti-clerical; Catholic dogmas and practices were ridiculed; priests and religious insulted in the streets. In 1875 Lueger was elected to the Vienna city council for one year. Reelected in 1876 for a full term of three years, he resigned his seat in consequence of the exposure of corruption in the city administration. Having now become the leader of the anti-corruptionist movement, he was again elected councillor in 1878 as an independent candidate, and threw himself heart and soul into the battle for purity in the municipal government.


Heinrich Fnedjung from Maehren, was a Jew -as an Austrian historian and journalist.
Friedjung was born in Roschtin (Czech: Roštín), Moravia (then, Austrian Empire; today, Czech Republic). The son of a Jewish family grew up in Vienna, and studied history in Prague and Berlin under Theodor Mommsen and Leopold von Ranke. He taught history and German language at the Commercial Academy (Handelsakademie) in Vienna from 1873 to 1879; he was then fired for criticizing the government.
It is ironical that out of these three German nationalists two--Adler and Friedjung--were Jews, par- ticularly ironical in Friedjung's case because he laid such emphasis on his being a German. Friedjung had no desire for the Jews to continue as a separate people; he believed that they should be absorbed into the nationalities among whom they lived. But Friedjung's race did in fact influence and warp his political career, for it made him overrate the easewith which the Germans could dominate and control the other races of the Empire. Friedjung regarded himself as a German, but he was only a German by adoption: he had become a German, because he valued German culture, and the process was no less deliberate for being subconscious. He therefore tended to expect a similar subconscious recognition of German superiority from the other races and he could not understand the reluctance of the Czechs, the Slovaks, or the Croats to follow his example.


Viktor Adler was a Jew. subsequently the founder of the Austrian Social Democratic party Austrian socialist politician and journalist, founder and leader of the Austrian Social Democratic party. Initially a German nationalist, he became a Socialist after meeting Engels and Bebel in Germany and Switzerland. He published Arbeiter Zeitung, the main socialist organ, and founded the Austrian Social Democratic party, advocating federalism and autonomy for peoples of the Austro-Hungarian empire. He entered parliament in 1905 as a spokesman for universal suffrage. His goal of a unified Austro-Hungarian party was frustrated when Czech Social Democrats broke away. It was from Adler's Social Democrats that Hitler claimed he learned the most about mass organization and psychology. He was also one of the first members of the group to join the Academic Wagner Society (in 1876, one year after the Society's founding) and to make a pilgrimage to Bayreuth. He was among the members of the Circle who signed a letter to Nietzsche indicating their goal to promote and follow the vision described in his Birth of Tragedy.
He, along with Pernerstorfer and Friedjung, were central in the development of the Linz Program and the deutschnational movement. At the same time, his work as a doctor in meeting the medical needs of the poor informed his vision of social reform. While involved in the deutschnational movement, he began making contact with socialist thinkers and leaders, many engaged in a highly nationalistic brand of Marxism.

Neumann
Neumann, a Jew from Hungary, who was more able to bargain, became Hitler's new paintings' salesman. It was the same Jew who gave him the frock coat which made Hitler look like an eastern Jew. . Purchasers of paintings were mostly Jewish, as for example the Hungarian-Jew Retschay, a main engineer; the Vienna lawyer Dr. Josef Feingold, and the picture frame merchant Morgenstern.

In the 1930s a Vienna art dealer who learned that Hanisch had known Hitler, persuaded him to write this memoir, which was subsequently published in the US. Hanisch, who returned to Germany, was captured and killed in the Buchenwald concentration camp.
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/projects/hitler/sources/30s/394newrep/394NewRepHanischHitlersBuddy.htm

In his memoirs of – “Hitler was my buddy: Hanisch ( who was later place on a concentrations camp for this story, even though he was not a Jew) stated -In those days Hitler was by no means a Jew Hater. He became one afterward. Hitler had helpful advisers who were Jews. There was a one-eyed locksmith called Robinson who often assisted him, since he was a beneficiary of an accident-insurance annuity and was able to spare a few pennies. And in the Naennerheim Hitler often found Jews who listened to his political debate. Neumann had another Jewish friend who peddled old clothes and often gave Hitler clothes to wear. He was a good hearted man who liked Hitler and Hitler held him in high esteem. At the time Theodor Herzl and the Zionist question were very much discussed. Hitler and Neumann had long debates about Zionism. In 1910 Neumann went to Germany but Hitler did not want to come. Hitler stayed in Vienna and sold his watercolors almost solely to all Jewish Dealers. He sold to Jacob Altenberg, Landsberger, Morgenstern. Hitler often said that it was only with the Jews that one could do business, because only they were willing to take chances. They are really the most efficient businessmen. Hitler also appreciated the charitable spirit of the Jews. At the time Hitler looked very Jewish, so I often joked with him that he must be of Jewish blood, since such a large beard rarely grows on a Christians chin. He also had big feet, like a wanderers. Hitler himself often remarked that descendants of Jews are very radical and have Terroristic inclinations. He said that for a Jew to take advantage, to a certain extent, of a non-Jew, was not punishable due to a law in the Torah. (Interesting that he would know the laws of the Torah).

[Icecold]

Before the contoversy which exploded around David Irving....

When I was at university in my years in a history and politics department, my supervisor at the time, a published historical author of WW2, invited David Irving to give a lecture at our university.
This was just before the controversy. The **** hit the fan for my supervisor and he was subjected to a mild inquisition. Its funny that at some time later, another Jewish supervisor of mine, had no anti-nazi feelings whatsoever and would often comment that his Jewish father was an admirer of Hitler. His father lived in N. USA somewhere in a forest and emulated Hitler's life to a certain extent, even down to owning German Shepherds.

There is strong evidence that David Irving was correct on many points he made regarding myths of the holocaust. A great pity that hysteria wins over truth everytime. Also can bury truth and make it a taboo.

[karelia]

So, I got ever so slightly sidetracked and started watching a video about the rumours of UFOs built by the Third Reich. (For any German speakers, it's here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4272650740694543202# )

Essentially, the video confirms the findings of Jan van Helsing/Udo Holey he shared in his book (banned in Germany), Secret Societies of the 20th Century, and the German scientists' conclusions on implosion vs explosion on which much of their research was based.

About 45 minutes in, the narrator describes George Adamski's findings, showing images, which showed a stunning similarity to the swastika, which Adamski of course couldn't write, then sort of casually mentions that Adamski's co-author, Desmond Leslie, is a relative of Winston Churchill. Am I detecting a trend here?

[karelia]

Before the contoversy which exploded around David Irving....

When I was at university in my years in a history and politics department, my supervisor at the time, a published historical author of WW2, invited David Irving to give a lecture at our university.
This was just before the controversy. The **** hit the fan for my supervisor and he was subjected to a mild inquisition. Its funny that at some time later, another Jewish supervisor of mine, had no anti-nazi feelings whatsoever and would often comment that his Jewish father was an admirer of Hitler. His father lived in N. USA somewhere in a forest and emulated Hitler's life to a certain extent, even down to owning German Shepherds.

There is strong evidence that David Irving was correct on many points he made regarding myths of the holocaust. A great pity that hysteria wins over truth everytime. Also can bury truth and make it a taboo.

I read several sources that mentioned Irving as one of the most respected historians. It's sort of the same principle applied to Wakefield, who is being destroyed because he found a link between a vaccine and autism and won't be corrupted into shutting up. Irving's stuff is on my to-read list because everything I read about him tells me he is a very thorough scholar.

As to jewish people not being anti... I visited Israel and traveled the country. I was stunned how friendly the older, German-born people were towards German tourists. I lived in London at the time and knew several other Germans who were scared of going to Golders Green (which was, at the time, predominantly jewish) because they had been called names.

[Lord Sidious]

Before the contoversy which exploded around David Irving....

When I was at university in my years in a history and politics department, my supervisor at the time, a published historical author of WW2, invited David Irving to give a lecture at our university.
This was just before the controversy. The **** hit the fan for my supervisor and he was subjected to a mild inquisition. Its funny that at some time later, another Jewish supervisor of mine, had no anti-nazi feelings whatsoever and would often comment that his Jewish father was an admirer of Hitler. His father lived in N. USA somewhere in a forest and emulated Hitler's life to a certain extent, even down to owning German Shepherds.

There is strong evidence that David Irving was correct on many points he made regarding myths of the holocaust. A great pity that hysteria wins over truth everytime. Also can bury truth and make it a taboo.

Regardless of whatever anyone says about Irving, remember these two things, he was the first to say the Hitler diaries were fakes and this is the guy that found the Auschwitz books in the KGB archives.


So, I got ever so slightly sidetracked and started watching a video about the rumours of UFOs built by the Third Reich. (For any German speakers, it's here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4272650740694543202# )

Essentially, the video confirms the findings of Jan van Helsing/Udo Holey he shared in his book (banned in Germany), Secret Societies of the 20th Century, and the German scientists' conclusions on implosion vs explosion on which much of their research was based.

About 45 minutes in, the narrator describes George Adamski's findings, showing images, which showed a stunning similarity to the swastika, which Adamski of course couldn't write, then sort of casually mentions that Adamski's co-author, Desmond Leslie, is a relative of Winston Churchill. Am I detecting a trend here?

Some of the first ufos seen after the wars end certainly match the description of a Hanebu.

[karelia]

Some of the first ufos seen after the wars end certainly match the description of a Hanebu.

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion... I've had some thoughts... If some of them did go to Antarctica (inner earth, anyone?), which kinda would make sense considering that most of the alleged sightings of Hitler et al were in Chile and Argentinia (yes, I do realise they may just have found shelter in either of those countries) and given Neuschwabenland, would the inner earth be in another dimension and they're able to move in and out of it as needed? van Helsing doesn't dismiss the idea that some Third Reich scientists had actual contact with ETs, and he surely did his homework. If they entered or spend time in a different dimension, they understand time. They could strike the PTW, but they're waiting for the right moment? From all the research I've done, one thing I've learned beyond the shadow of a doubt: the PTW hate the Germans more than they hate anyone else. And from what I've read over the past few weeks, the Third Reich certainly wasn't run by a bunch of hate-mongerers. Could it be that they're waiting for the moment when they know for sure they can take back their country?

I know. Wild thoughts. But really?

Does anyone remember the alleged account of a German speaker coming from below the earth that was posted to Project Camelot a few years ago? I had a strange feeling about it when I read it. It kind of had the gang's signature all over it.

[Lord Sidious]

I would say to you that some of the major players in restoring the Reich are indeed in Germany, even as you read these words.
I think that the time isn’t right for what they wish to do yet, the Germans themselves are still mentally shackled with political correctness and other Marxist ideologies.

They say that three of the allied nations detonated atomic bombs over Neuschwabenland in the 50’s.
I am not sure what they thought that would achieve, if the Germans invented the atomic bomb, which is another story we will get to, they would know about EMP.

One thing that I am still working on getting to the bottom of is one of your premises, they hate the Germans and everything about them.
I don’t know why.
Yet.

[loveandgratitude]

Peter Levenda | Secret Space Program & NASA's Nazis

A radio program with Peter Levenda and Red Iceabout the Nazi and UFO, Nasa etrc. . Thought you might find this of interest
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=156195#post156195
This was Post no - 551 - THREAD - Continuing Search For The Truth - by Avalon Member - Helvetic.

[aikisaw]

I have been doing some digging around on why the Catholic Church had a close relationship with the Nazi's. It was inspired by Love and Gratitude's post.

I found this site with great photos http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

It seems a strange marriage. I was looking into Hitlers religious beliefs earlier and thought Hitler wanted his own religion. It was be a blend of things Protestant, Theosophical, Pagen, and so on. Not exactly in the Catholic Church area of expertise I would say.

I think the reasons for this union cover a few different areas.

Germany was a Christian country, this alignment gave him spiritual peace at home and time to bring in his own religion.

Germany offered a way out from the Rothschild and other Jewish bankers that controlled the Vatican Bank since 1823.


http://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-For-Life/NaziGermanysFreedom/NaziGermanysFreedom.pdf

Germany’s economic freedom was short-lived; but it left several monuments, including the
famous Autobahn, the world’s first extensive superhighway.
Hjalmar Schacht, a Rothschild agent who was temporarily head of the German central
bank, summed it up thus. An American banker had commented, “Dr. Schacht, you should
come to America. We have lots of money, and that’s real banking.”
Schacht replied, “You should come to Berlin. We don’t have money. That’s real
banking.” (Schacht, the Rothschild agent, actually supported the private international
bankers against Germany, and was rewarded by having all charges against him dropped at
the Nuremberg trials.)
This economic freedom made Hitler extremely popular with the German people. Germany
was rescued from English economic theory, which says that all currency must be
borrowed against the gold owned by a private and secretive banking cartel — such as the
Federal Reserve, or the Central Bank of Europe — rather than issued by the government
for the benefit of the people.


http://www.rense.com/general77/POWERS.HTM

CO-MASTERS OF THE WORLD--management of the Catholic and Czars' wealth and the capture of the Orthodox Church's wealth.

Early in the 19th century the Pope came to the Rothschilds to borrow money. The Rothschilds were very friendly with the Pope, causing one journalist to sarcasticly say "Rothschild has kissed the hand of the Pope...Order has at last been re-established."39 The Rothschilds in fact over time were entrusted with the bulk of the Vatican's wealth. The Jewish Ency., Vol. 2, p.497states, ,,It is a somewhat curious sequel to the attempt to set up a Catholic competitor to the Rothschilds that at the present time (1905) the latter are the guardians of the papal treasure." Researcher Eustice Mullins writes that the Rothschilds took over all the financial operations of the worldwide Catholic Church in 1823.(40) Today the large banking and financial business of the Catholic Church is an extensive system interlocked with the Rothschilds and the rest of the International Banking system. The great wealth of the Russian Czars was entrusted to the Rothschilds, $35 million with the Rothschild's Bank of England, and $80 million in the Rothschild's Paris bank. The Rothschilds financed the Russian Revolution which confiscated vast portions of the Orthodox Church's wealth. They have been able to prevent (due to their power) the legitimate heirs of the Czars fortune to withdraw a penny of the millions deposited in a variety of their banks. The Mountbattans, who are related to the Rothschilds, led the court battles to prevent the claimants from withdrawing any of the fortune. In other words, the money they invested in the Russian Revolution, was not only paid back directly by the Bolshevists in millions of dollar of gold, but by grabbing the hugh deposits of the Czars' wealth, the Rothschilds gained what is now worth over $50 Billions.(41)

This is not a complete picture yet. I'm still working on it.

On the lighter side.....I thought I broke the internet....I did a search Zionism and Catholic church..... I thought google was going to crash.:o

[aikisaw]

Here is a copy of the agreement between Hitler and the Catholic Church. I included the first paragraph introduction.

http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=858&kb_header_id=752&order=kb_rank%20ASC&kb_id=1211


Reichskonkordat (with Hitler, 1933): Full text

Here is the complete text: Concordat, Supplementary Protocol and Secret Supplement. Article 27 of the Concordat provides for military chaplains in case the Germany re-armed in contravention of the Versailles Treaty, and the Secret Supplement exempted Catholic clergy from military service. Even today the Secret Supplement does not appear in most translations: the Church won't admit to knowing that Hitler was about to start a war.

[Lord Sidious]

I have been doing some digging around on why the Catholic Church had a close relationship with the Nazi's. It was inspired by Love and Gratitude's post.

I found this site with great photos http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

It seems a strange marriage. I was looking into Hitlers religious beliefs earlier and thought Hitler wanted his own religion. It was be a blend of things Protestant, Theosophical, Pagen, and so on. Not exactly in the Catholic Church area of expertise I would say.

I think the reasons for this union cover a few different areas.

Germany was a Christian country, this alignment gave him spiritual peace at home and time to bring in his own religion.

Germany offered a way out from the Rothschild and other Jewish bankers that controlled the Vatican Bank since 1823.


http://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-For-Life/NaziGermanysFreedom/NaziGermanysFreedom.pdf

Germany’s economic freedom was short-lived; but it left several monuments, including the
famous Autobahn, the world’s first extensive superhighway.
Hjalmar Schacht, a Rothschild agent who was temporarily head of the German central
bank, summed it up thus. An American banker had commented, “Dr. Schacht, you should
come to America. We have lots of money, and that’s real banking.”
Schacht replied, “You should come to Berlin. We don’t have money. That’s real
banking.” (Schacht, the Rothschild agent, actually supported the private international
bankers against Germany, and was rewarded by having all charges against him dropped at
the Nuremberg trials.)
This economic freedom made Hitler extremely popular with the German people. Germany
was rescued from English economic theory, which says that all currency must be
borrowed against the gold owned by a private and secretive banking cartel — such as the
Federal Reserve, or the Central Bank of Europe — rather than issued by the government
for the benefit of the people.


http://www.rense.com/general77/POWERS.HTM

CO-MASTERS OF THE WORLD--management of the Catholic and Czars' wealth and the capture of the Orthodox Church's wealth.

Early in the 19th century the Pope came to the Rothschilds to borrow money. The Rothschilds were very friendly with the Pope, causing one journalist to sarcasticly say "Rothschild has kissed the hand of the Pope...Order has at last been re-established."39 The Rothschilds in fact over time were entrusted with the bulk of the Vatican's wealth. The Jewish Ency., Vol. 2, p.497states, ,,It is a somewhat curious sequel to the attempt to set up a Catholic competitor to the Rothschilds that at the present time (1905) the latter are the guardians of the papal treasure." Researcher Eustice Mullins writes that the Rothschilds took over all the financial operations of the worldwide Catholic Church in 1823.(40) Today the large banking and financial business of the Catholic Church is an extensive system interlocked with the Rothschilds and the rest of the International Banking system. The great wealth of the Russian Czars was entrusted to the Rothschilds, $35 million with the Rothschild's Bank of England, and $80 million in the Rothschild's Paris bank. The Rothschilds financed the Russian Revolution which confiscated vast portions of the Orthodox Church's wealth. They have been able to prevent (due to their power) the legitimate heirs of the Czars fortune to withdraw a penny of the millions deposited in a variety of their banks. The Mountbattans, who are related to the Rothschilds, led the court battles to prevent the claimants from withdrawing any of the fortune. In other words, the money they invested in the Russian Revolution, was not only paid back directly by the Bolshevists in millions of dollar of gold, but by grabbing the hugh deposits of the Czars' wealth, the Rothschilds gained what is now worth over $50 Billions.(41)

This is not a complete picture yet. I'm still working on it.

On the lighter side.....I thought I broke the internet....I did a search Zionism and Catholic church..... I thought google was going to crash.:o

The vatican could also see what the communists had in store for them, never forget the Spanish civil war.
Bearing in mind that the greatest enemy to the zionist banking system and communism, both bastard children of the same parent, was the NSDAP.

[K626]

Before the contoversy which exploded around David Irving....

When I was at university in my years in a history and politics department, my supervisor at the time, a published historical author of WW2, invited David Irving to give a lecture at our university.
This was just before the controversy. The **** hit the fan for my supervisor and he was subjected to a mild inquisition. Its funny that at some time later, another Jewish supervisor of mine, had no anti-nazi feelings whatsoever and would often comment that his Jewish father was an admirer of Hitler. His father lived in N. USA somewhere in a forest and emulated Hitler's life to a certain extent, even down to owning German Shepherds.

There is strong evidence that David Irving was correct on many points he made regarding myths of the holocaust. A great pity that hysteria wins over truth everytime. Also can bury truth and make it a taboo.

I would recommend the Irving trial book Ice...Many details oft overlooked and in the nittty gritty of a trial scenario with top lawyers a lot of data is well examined.

cheers

K

[Lord Sidious]

Before the contoversy which exploded around David Irving....

When I was at university in my years in a history and politics department, my supervisor at the time, a published historical author of WW2, invited David Irving to give a lecture at our university.
This was just before the controversy. The **** hit the fan for my supervisor and he was subjected to a mild inquisition. Its funny that at some time later, another Jewish supervisor of mine, had no anti-nazi feelings whatsoever and would often comment that his Jewish father was an admirer of Hitler. His father lived in N. USA somewhere in a forest and emulated Hitler's life to a certain extent, even down to owning German Shepherds.

There is strong evidence that David Irving was correct on many points he made regarding myths of the holocaust. A great pity that hysteria wins over truth everytime. Also can bury truth and make it a taboo.

I would recommend the Irving trial book Ice...Many details oft overlooked and in the nittty gritty of a trial scenario with top lawyers a lot of data is well examined.

cheers

K

The reason Irving lost is that he used the wrong tactics in court, nothing to do with the merit of his info.
I just with people would stop their egos from running their lives like that.

[aroundthetable]

Produced and presented as evidence at the Nuremberg war crimes trial

pza-MjSGYz4

[Lord Sidious]

I will download it and have a look, then give you my opinion.
Thanks for that.

[K626]

Before the contoversy which exploded around David Irving....

When I was at university in my years in a history and politics department, my supervisor at the time, a published historical author of WW2, invited David Irving to give a lecture at our university.
This was just before the controversy. The **** hit the fan for my supervisor and he was subjected to a mild inquisition. Its funny that at some time later, another Jewish supervisor of mine, had no anti-nazi feelings whatsoever and would often comment that his Jewish father was an admirer of Hitler. His father lived in N. USA somewhere in a forest and emulated Hitler's life to a certain extent, even down to owning German Shepherds.

There is strong evidence that David Irving was correct on many points he made regarding myths of the holocaust. A great pity that hysteria wins over truth everytime. Also can bury truth and make it a taboo.

I would recommend the Irving trial book Ice...Many details oft overlooked and in the nittty gritty of a trial scenario with top lawyers a lot of data is well examined.

cheers

K

The reason Irving lost is that he used the wrong tactics in court, nothing to do with the merit of his info.
I just with people would stop their egos from running their lives like that.

Yeah, if I remeber correctly he handled his own defence (read the book a few years ago), which is always a mistake in these kinds of trials. As you say, the ego took over.

cheers

K

[Lord Sidious]

Before the contoversy which exploded around David Irving....

When I was at university in my years in a history and politics department, my supervisor at the time, a published historical author of WW2, invited David Irving to give a lecture at our university.
This was just before the controversy. The **** hit the fan for my supervisor and he was subjected to a mild inquisition. Its funny that at some time later, another Jewish supervisor of mine, had no anti-nazi feelings whatsoever and would often comment that his Jewish father was an admirer of Hitler. His father lived in N. USA somewhere in a forest and emulated Hitler's life to a certain extent, even down to owning German Shepherds.

There is strong evidence that David Irving was correct on many points he made regarding myths of the holocaust. A great pity that hysteria wins over truth everytime. Also can bury truth and make it a taboo.

I would recommend the Irving trial book Ice...Many details oft overlooked and in the nittty gritty of a trial scenario with top lawyers a lot of data is well examined.

cheers

K

The reason Irving lost is that he used the wrong tactics in court, nothing to do with the merit of his info.
I just with people would stop their egos from running their lives like that.

Yeah, if I remeber correctly he handled his own defence (read the book a few years ago), which is always a mistake in these kinds of trials. As you say, the ego took over.

cheers

K

Irving was the plaintiff, not defendant.
And the thing is, that libel actions are VERY hard to win.
Probably 10% at most succeed.
But when you go in to prove the holocaust did not happen and not that your reputation has been damaged, you will lose.

[K626]

Before the contoversy which exploded around David Irving....

When I was at university in my years in a history and politics department, my supervisor at the time, a published historical author of WW2, invited David Irving to give a lecture at our university.
This was just before the controversy. The **** hit the fan for my supervisor and he was subjected to a mild inquisition. Its funny that at some time later, another Jewish supervisor of mine, had no anti-nazi feelings whatsoever and would often comment that his Jewish father was an admirer of Hitler. His father lived in N. USA somewhere in a forest and emulated Hitler's life to a certain extent, even down to owning German Shepherds.

There is strong evidence that David Irving was correct on many points he made regarding myths of the holocaust. A great pity that hysteria wins over truth everytime. Also can bury truth and make it a taboo.

I would recommend the Irving trial book Ice...Many details oft overlooked and in the nittty gritty of a trial scenario with top lawyers a lot of data is well examined.

cheers

K

The reason Irving lost is that he used the wrong tactics in court, nothing to do with the merit of his info.
I just with people would stop their egos from running their lives like that.

Yeah, if I remeber correctly he handled his own defence (read the book a few years ago), which is always a mistake in these kinds of trials. As you say, the ego took over.

cheers

K

Irving was the plaintiff, not defendant.
And the thing is, that libel actions are VERY hard to win.
Probably 10% at most succeed.
But when you go in to prove the holocaust did not happen and not that your reputation has been damaged, you will lose.

Yeah, that's right. He was very over confident as he's won a settlement against a newspaper for libel a few years previous...
These are no win trials I agree.
Funny story about me and that book at Berlin airport a few years ago...ho ho..

cheers


K

[Lord Sidious]

Produced and presented as evidence at the Nuremberg war crimes trial

pza-MjSGYz4

Ok, I had a look.
Anything you wanted to raise?
I was hoping it is the one with the spurious claims about gas chambers at Dachau, but it isn't.
If you see that one around, I would be obliged if you post it.

[loveandgratitude]

A RADIO INTERVIEW WITH CAROLYN YEAGER

Listen to this Interview with Carolyn Yeager by Talk show host by Charles Giuliani. His website and radio show are -

Host: Charles Giuliani
Website: oraclebroadcasting.com
Email: truthhertzradio@aol.com

Carolyn is a historian and a holocaust historian. Carolyn has written many book and interviewed many historians over the years about the history of world war 2 and has accessed many documents.

This program is about another “Fake” holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel. Some of Carolyn website are -
http://carolynyeager.com/ or eliewiseltatoo.com

The interview is found at -

http://mp3.oraclebroadcasting.com/Truth_Hertz/Truth_Hertz.2011-03-03_16k.mp3


IN HER BOOK - Searching For the Bodies –
This book was written after researching many years and was co-wrote a book with Wilhelm Mann. The most surprising thing to be found were mass graves stemming from World War II have been found around Malbork. In 1996, 178 corpses were discovered on the grounds of Marienberg/Malbork Castle. In 2005, specialists exhumed the bones of 123 more, including five women and six children, from a trench. All are believed to be Germans.

NO CZECHS IN MASS GRAVES
Czechs have not claimed massacres from the war - other than the 173 men of the village of Lidice, who were executed for harboring the murderers of Reichs Protector for Bohemia-Moravia, Reinhard Heydrich, as an example to those who would cooperate with the Czech underground (considered by the Germans as an illegal terrorist organization).
Still, there was great desire to retaliate following the retreat of the German Wehrmacht and the arrival of the Soviet Red Army and NKVD. Postelberg/Polstoloprty and Saav/Zatec, two towns northwest of Prague, saw brutal massacres of at least 2,000 Sudeten Germans in the space of a few days in June 1945.

There was also the Bruenn/Brno Death March, which began late on the night of May 30, and the Aussig/Usti nad Labem Massacre on July 31, 1945—both majority German towns in the same area of Northwestern Bohemia. Basing their decision on the Potsdam Agreement, the Czech “National Committee of Brno” announced the expulsion of 20,000 ethnic Germans, mostly women, children and elderly (the German adult men were all POW’s), and forced them to march 56 kilometers south to the border of Austria. Once there, however, the Soviet authorities refused to allow them to cross, so they were marched back into internment. Many died and are buried along the way; up to 8000 German's perished in the terrible conditions before the survivors were released.

Over the number of graves digged up after the war was done by Jewish groups without the help of Government or independant groups. These “find” has been widely publicized in world media as a “holocaust” mass grave, yet no tests have proven the remains to be Jewish, or the perpetrators to be Germans. It is assumed.   

Since these two finds in 2006 and 2007, there have been no more claims of mass graves of Jews. As we know, there are no substantial remains of either bodies or ashes discovered at the concentration camp sites of Treblinka, Belzec, Sorbibor, Chelmo or Auschwitz-Birkenau, all in Poland. The killing-by-bullets of Jews that supposedly took place in the Ukraine is not showing up in any new mass graves, even though Father Patrick DuBois continues to search. He finds a few bodies here and there.
What are we to think? When it comes to Germans and their allies massacred and thrown into pits, we have masses of evidence compiled by official government agencies, even when they are resistant to do so. When it comes to Poles, Ukrainians and other Slavic ethnics groups, we don’t find them buried in mass graves by the Nazis. When it comes to Jews, we have only the word of Jewish delegations that thousands of Jews are buried in mass graves that they refuse to excavate.
As Mitja Ferenc, the Slovenian history professor, remarked of his own discoveries: “Without excavation, there is no way to know.”

COPIES OF HER BOOKS ARE AVAILABLE ON HER WEBSITE FOR FREE.

[Lord Sidious]

There is a site on the net about that liar, the one I call eliar the weasel.
In it, the guy says that isn't Eli Weisel, as he was with him in the camp.
I would think that is quite interesting.

Secondly, google Vinnitsa Massacre.
I saw pics of that many years ago in a fake history book. They had said the SS had murdered all the jews of Vinnitsa.
Oh, a fake history book is one of the allegedly mainstream books that repeats propaganda and paints it as actual events.

[Tangri]

I’ve been reading about the holocaust and how there are those who believe that the story we’ve been told about it is a great deal of public relations propaganda in order to influence the minds of people to think a particular way.

Now, I’m not for a minute saying that utterly terrible things which ought never to have happened, happened during WWll.
And are still happening today to other people in other countries – but for some reason that pales in significance in people’s minds in comparison to that of ‘the holocaust’.

However, looking beyond the human tragedy of it, the question arises: - was it all an essential part of the greater plan to drive the new world order agenda full steam ahead?

The Rothschilds (‘ptb’ being Zionists and apparently Jews (handy that) and god knows what else ) funded both sides of this war, they were responsible for the start of the UN.
Great Britian wanted US support during WWll, so a deal was done that Great Britian would hand over a chunk of Palestine (now considerably grown and increasingly growing ) if the US could be inspired to join – bring on p*ssing off the Japanese and thereby instigating the attack on Pearl Harbour.

All these moves, and many more, have been chess piece moves taking place under the cover of using human pawns in order to strategically place the pieces to bring about the globalist ‘nwo’ agenda.

It is illegal in certain countries to be a holocaust denier, and even people in countries where it isn’t have been so brainwashed by the propaganda they are unable to discuss the situation with an open mind and an opinion not shrouded by emotion.
Which is an absolute shame, for while it remains an un-investigated and unquestioned event the Jewish people will remain sacrificial lambs to the Zionist movement to attain total control over the world and humanity.

And, while we allow the cockroaches to remain hiding under the cover of Holocaust guilt and censorship they will continue doing whatever it is they are doing to make the world a place that none of us want to live in.

Have at it.

I can put my signature under it. If you allow me

[Icecold]

The vatican could also see what the communists had in store for them, never forget the Spanish civil war.
Bearing in mind that the greatest enemy to the zionist banking system and communism, both bastard children of the same parent, was the NSDAP.

Hitler's invasion of Russia had its roots in the Spanish Civil War. Catholic/Communist/Anarchist lines were drawn in Spain.

To a certain extent the German invasion of Russia was a crusade. War + Pogrom = Crusade.

[3optic]

Trying to reconcile these 2 conspiracy themes. Maybe someone can help.

1 The reports of gas chambers and incinerators at Dachau and Auschwitz are false.

2 FEMA Camps have incinerators and gas chambers in the facilities.

So.. It didn't happen there but it's going to happen here?

Help..:confused:

[loveandgratitude]

EISENHOWER – WAR CRIMINAL OR WAR HERO

Nazi Concentration Camp VIDEO - if you look who it was made by - Dwight Eisenhower.
OK. Let look at Eisenhower.

Who is he -
Eisenhower's West Point Military Academy graduating class yearbook, published in 1915, Eisenhower is identified as a "terrible Swedish Jew." Changing his name from Eisenhower to Eisenhower is a typical Jew tactic.
Wherever Eisenhower went during his military career, Eisenhower's Jewish background and secondary manifesting behavior was a concern to his fellow officers.
During World War II when Col. Eisenhower was working for Gen. Douglas MacArthur in the South Pacific, and MacArthur protested to his superiors in Washington (DC) that Eisenhower was incompetent and that he did not want Eisenhower on his staff.
Eisenhower was responsible for " Operation Keelhaul " - where allied forces rounded over two million anti-Communists who escaped Stalin  and tuned them over to Russian forces. Part of the Yalta Agreement between the Big Three — Stalin, Roosevelt, and Churchill — involved the repatriation of Russians to their respective homelands where they were either immediately executed or sent to die in the Gulag.
In 1945 Eisenhower threw 1.7 million Germans in open fields which killed approx 1.2 million from starvation. He allowed 1.2 million soldiers to die from starvation. There was enough food and supplies and he supported the GERMAN HOLOCAUST. Maybe the Germans need reparations from the USA. He killed more Germans in peace than Germans were killed in war. The Germans were set up from the word go. Put into the noose. All at the behest from Elite Jews. They set Germany up so they could take it down. And been made to paid for something they did not do.

The Russian have been traditionally were blamed for 1 million soldiers but it was the USA – directed by Eisenhower. Will the war criminal please stand up. They watched them die slowly........ many men died from gang green from frost bite, The local German people were denied access to them....this was the sort of thing that the Nazi were accused of. The USA brought the tyranny.

Who's agenda was this,,,,,, who orders was he following.....who wanted the German cities decimated. Who wanted the Germans solider starved to death.....THE ELITE JEWS. The deeper you dig, you uglier its get.
God, I hate the Germans..." --Dwight David Eisenhower
in a letter to his wife in September, 1944

What a contrast to General Patton. Paton stated “that said he could not stand the Jews and the Russians and felt the Germans had been set up. Paton said he wanted to march into Moscow. When he would not shut up they killed him.

Why would Eisenhower say this, that he hated the Germans. What did he have personally against the Germans. It could not have been about the holocaust. BECAUSE HE NEVER SAID A THING ABOUT THE HOLOCAUSE IN HIS MEMOIRS. Not a word. Never. HE HATED THE GERMANS because HE WAS A ZIONIST JEW. ZIONIST JEWS HATED THE GERMANS AND WANTED TO DESTROY GERMANY SO THEY INSTIGATED THE WAR , FUNDED AND PROFITEERED OFF THIS WAR AS A MEANS OF TAKING DOWN GEMRANY, JUST LIKE THEY DID IN WORLD WAR 1 AND WORLD WAR 2 WAS TO COMPLETE THE JOB.

How do we know Eisenhower WAS A Jew, his Wrest Point year book, he was described as QUOTE” - A terrible Swedish Jew. And history show us who his loyalties was with.

Eisenhower on his way to the white house was greatly influenced by his own adminations by
Bernard Baruch. Bernard Baruch was behind Eisenhower.
http://theunjustmedia.com/Jewish%20Zionists/Zionism%20and%20World%20War%20I.htm

This elite jew had his fingers in every president since WoodordWilson on. Pulling the strings behind the scene. Waving fat wads of cash to get them to do his bidding of his Zionist party. .
(SOUNDS LIKE WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY IN USA)

It was under the Eisenhower administaion that the LEVON affiar occurred, where Isrealis planted bombs in American, British and Egyptian targets. And they got awasy with it. Eisenhower saw to that. No legal action pursues against them as always. It was hoped that the blame could be put on Egypt. So inticing USA to atttack Egypt on its behalf...but the whole plot unfolded and the isrealies got exposed. They do not stop.

His military promotions on the eve of WWII and during the war are curious to say the least. Zionists found an Army officer who had been a military failure until Bernard Baruch promoted him to General.
His actions and responsibilities during and after the war: direct, personal negotiations with Stalin on the placements of the armies (and the surrender of territory won by Americans, with the ceding of that territory to the Russians).
The massacre of surrendered Germans at Dachau, the fire bombing of Dresden, Operation Keelhaul, and the intentional starvation of over 1,250,000 "disarmed enemy forces" all clearly mark him as a war criminal.
In 1952, although he had been a Democrat most of his life, Baruch endorsed Dwight D. Eisenhower for president.
http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Eisenhower.html

Have you heard about the bombing of Dresden. The bombing after the war on this town which virtually everybody agrees had absolutely no military value? It was filled with woman and children. It was merely to slaughter Germans citizens. Who did it? And why?
Somebody very high up in the military leadership — such as Eisenhower and Churchill — planned and authorized that bombing. He wanted to march into Moscow because he knew who the real problem was and after he would not shut up he was killed.
Why would Eisenhower slaughter so many Germans? By comparison, General Patton did not behave in this manner.
Incidentally, General Patton died after the war after a minor but mysterious car accident, while Eisenhower was soon elected to president. Were these events merely coincidental?
 
Some supporters of Eisenhower point out that he made a speech in which he made a vague remark about the "military industrial complex", but that doesn't prove he can be trusted. What is a military-industrial complex? Was it a code word for success?

http://mp3.oraclebroadcasting.com/Truth_Hertz/Truth_Hertz.2011-02-22_16k.mp3

[Leon]

Time to draw a comparison?

Here a picture of Trnopolje concentration camp in Bosnia, I have seen the media compare this with Auschwitz. there are similarities. like starvation! WHY?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=5501&d=1299397169

On this foto apears a man who is a friend of mine, who was in this camp and another. He showed me the video and many private photo's of this time as well.
The comandant of the camp was an old school mate of his, this comandant told him clearly that he did not have food to give them. It was then organised that my friends wife who was not in the camp would cook and a jeep type vehicle was send to pick up the food. this is the only way they got fed???
There is more to this story about this camp in Bosnia, but I wanted to point out the similarities here.

Could it be that the camps in Germany ran out of food because all the supply lines were cut? and this is the main reason people looked the way they did?
That really is was the alied bombings that stopped food getting to the camps?
It seams easier to blame the loosing side of the war, it keeps the heat of the real reasons....

and then the ovens???
have you looked around your own city lately and seen how many ovens there are? we call them crematoriums these day's...

I guess what I'd like to see is the truth told, and not some wild stories of how bad the German were towards certain peoples... but then this seems convenient doesnt it?

[jorr lundstrom]

Gosh, this is a nasty rabbithole. But....hesitating......jumping.......I fly!!!!!!!!!!

A couple of weeks ago I was down another rabbithole, when I suddenly was shown a new Swedish book.

It stated that the camps were created by jews for jews. As I remembered it was about that the purpose

wasnt to get rid of the jews as so often stated. If I understood it right it was about the worship of Molok

and the purpose of the camps were to generate as much suffering as possible. Something like to create a

surplus of suffering as a sacrifice to ancient gods. Thi is really creepy I think.

If anyone is interested I think I can find the book. But it is in swedish.

i think there were mentioned the fifth root-race too. When I read it I felt like

vommiting all the time. I have seen much in my life and have a strong belly,

but this was far beyond the limit. Love

[Lord Sidious]

The vatican could also see what the communists had in store for them, never forget the Spanish civil war.
Bearing in mind that the greatest enemy to the zionist banking system and communism, both bastard children of the same parent, was the NSDAP.

Hitler's invasion of Russia had its roots in the Spanish Civil War. Catholic/Communist/Anarchist lines were drawn in Spain.

To a certain extent the German invasion of Russia was a crusade. War + Pogrom = Crusade.

Not really.
Go google this ''Icebreaker - who really started the second world war'' + Viktor Suvorov.


Trying to reconcile these 2 conspiracy themes. Maybe someone can help.

1 The reports of gas chambers and incinerators at Dachau and Auschwitz are false.

2 FEMA Camps have incinerators and gas chambers in the facilities.

So.. It didn't happen there but it's going to happen here?

Help..:confused:

There were gas chambers and crematoria at all the camps.
The thing is, the gas chambers were for delousing bedding and clothing.
And crematoria obviously shows there is a need for hygienic disposal of corpses.
And yes, it is ironic, if true that this is planned.
I doubt it is gas chambers, more like injections or something.


Gosh, this is a nasty rabbithole. But....hesitating......jumping.......I fly!!!!!!!!!!

A couple of weeks ago I was down another rabbithole, when I suddenly was shown a new Swedish book.

It stated that the camps were created by jews for jews. As I remembered it was about that the purpose

wasnt to get rid of the jews as so often stated. If I understood it right it was about the worship of Marduk

and the purpose of the camps were to generate as much suffering as possible. Something like to create a

surplus of suffering as a sacrifice to ancient gods. Thi is really creepy I think.

If anyone is interested I think I can find the book. But it is in swedish.

i think there were mentioned the fifth root-race too. When I read it I felt like

vommiting all the time. I have seen much in my life and have a strong belly,

but this was far beyond the limit. Love

Jorr, even though that book may disgust you, it contains info I haven't heard of before and it ties in with recent developments in my thinking.
I would be very interested in the details of the book and if possible, a translation.

[K626]

The higher ups in the SS saw the Kaballah (Jewish mysticism) as direct competition to their new 'earth magic esoterica'.

[jorr lundstrom]

Here is a link to the book in pdf. The first part is about that all those Nazi leaders were actually

of jewish blood. Seems like one group of jews opress an other. And the cult described are called

a blood sacrifice cult. I will see if I could take a walk about in the valley of death and translate

some. And it wasnt Marduk, it was Molok. Had a memory once. LOL

I tried to find out who wrote this book but couldnt. But he has written another book on

implantations inside humans found on a swedish hospital. Do I have to say that those

implantations shouldnt have been there.

Love and carrots


http://www.nyapolitiken.biz/frimurare_o_illuminater/goran-sade.pdf

A tool for translation http://translate.google.com/#

[Lord Sidious]

The higher ups in the SS saw the Kaballah (Jewish mysticism) as direct competition to their new 'earth magic esoterica'.

The kaballah is a rip off of an ancient Greek concept and the SS wouldn't have cared about it, other than view it as a tool of those controlling the world, not as competition.



Here is a link to the book in pdf. The first part is about that all those Nazi leaders were actually

of jewish blood. Seems like one group of jews opress an other. And the cult described are called

a blood sacrifice cult. I will see if I could take a walk about in the valley of death and translate

some. And it wasnt Marduk, it was Molok. Had a memory once. LOL

I tried to find out who wrote this book but couldnt. But he has written another book on

implantations inside humans found on a swedish hospital. Do I have to say that those

implantations shouldnt have been there.

Love and carrots


http://www.nyapolitiken.biz/frimurare_o_illuminater/goran-sade.pdf

Aha, moloch.
Ok, he is mentioned in the old testament and funny enough, sacrifices to him were indeed a holocaust - death by fire.
One of the things you will see in the moloch cult is the bashing of infants heads on the side of the oven before being thrown in, the exact thing SS men were accused of.
I will have a look at the book and get back to you.

[K626]

This is magic

http://torahcode.us/torah_codes/hitler/nuremberg_party_rallies1.jpg

[Lord Sidious]

Ah yes, the Stadium of Light.
That is the zeppelin park in Nurnberg.

[loveandgratitude]

Nazi" is a JEWISH WORD
It derives from the HEBREW (Jewish) word 'Nazir'.. meaning" A Jewish prince who performs holocausts"....
Holocaust, in Hebrew, (Jew tongue) means BURNT OFFERING!
Now then.. put 2 & 2 together.......

http://au.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=yhs-avg&type=yahoo_avg_hs2-tb-web_au&p=HEBREW+%28Jewish%29+word+%27Nazir%27..+meaning%22+A+Jewish+prince+who+performs+holocausts%22....

Sacrifices of Nazarites
Chapter 6
(§ 6); sacrifices and cutting of the hair when the Nazariteship is fulfilled; burning of the cut hair under the pot in which the flesh of the sacrifice is cooked; other regulations regarding the sacrifices by Nazarites (§§ 7-11).

Read more -
http://www.answers.com/topic/nazir-talmud

[Lord Sidious]

Nazi" is a JEWISH WORD
It derives from the HEBREW (Jewish) word 'Nazir'.. meaning" A Jewish prince who performs holocausts"....
Holocaust, in Hebrew, (Jew tongue) means BURNT OFFERING!
Now then.. put 2 & 2 together.......

And that is also part of ashkenazi, as in one type of jew.
But the followers of the NSDAP never called themselves that, their enemies did.

[jjl]

One of the things you will see in the moloch cult is the bashing of infants heads on the side of the oven before being thrown in, the exact thing SS men were accused of.
I will have a look at the book and get back to you.
Jesus.
(I didnt mean it as a curse just an outcry for humanity)

[aikisaw]

Lord Sidious
Go google this ''Icebreaker - who really started the second world war'' + Viktor Suvorov.


http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p22_Bishop.html

Suvorov believes that Hitler's preemptive strike came just two or three weeks before Stalin's own planned assault. Thus, as Wehrmacht forces smashed Soviet formations in the initial weeks of the "Barbarossa" attack, the Germans marveled at the great numbers of Soviet tanks and other materiel destroyed or captured -- an enormous buildup sufficient not just for an assault on Germany, but for the conquest of all of Europe. Suvorov writes

Hitler decided that it was not worth his while waiting any longer. He was the first to go, without waiting for the blow of the "liberating" dagger to stab him in the back. He had begun the war in the most favorable conditions which could possibly have existed for an aggressor; but given the nature of Stalin's grand plan, he could never have won it. Even in the most unfavorable conditions, the Red Army was able to "liberate" half of Europe ...

As devastating as it was, Hitler's assault was not fatal. It came too late to be successful. "Even the Wehrmacht's surprise attack on the Soviet Union could no longer save Hitler and his empire," Suvorov writes. "Hitler understood where the greatest danger was coming from, but it was already too late." With great effort, the Soviets were able to recover from the shattering blow. Stalin succeeded in forming new armies to replace those lost in the second half of 1941.

What can now be stated with certainty -- thanks to the work of Suvorov and other revisionist historians -- is that in smashing the great Soviet military buildup in 1941, Hitler dashed Stalin's plan to quickly conquer Europe, and that, in spite of his defeat in 1945, Hitler saved at least the western half of Europe, and tens of millions of people, from the horrors of Soviet subjugation

This is only part of a larger article. Well worth reading.

Did Hitler expect England to come to it's aid against Russia at some point?

I never understood why Germany did not do all it could in attacking England.

[K626]

Lord Sidious
Go google this ''Icebreaker - who really started the second world war'' + Viktor Suvorov.


http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p22_Bishop.html

Suvorov believes that Hitler's preemptive strike came just two or three weeks before Stalin's own planned assault. Thus, as Wehrmacht forces smashed Soviet formations in the initial weeks of the "Barbarossa" attack, the Germans marveled at the great numbers of Soviet tanks and other materiel destroyed or captured -- an enormous buildup sufficient not just for an assault on Germany, but for the conquest of all of Europe. Suvorov writes

Hitler decided that it was not worth his while waiting any longer. He was the first to go, without waiting for the blow of the "liberating" dagger to stab him in the back. He had begun the war in the most favorable conditions which could possibly have existed for an aggressor; but given the nature of Stalin's grand plan, he could never have won it. Even in the most unfavorable conditions, the Red Army was able to "liberate" half of Europe ...

As devastating as it was, Hitler's assault was not fatal. It came too late to be successful. "Even the Wehrmacht's surprise attack on the Soviet Union could no longer save Hitler and his empire," Suvorov writes. "Hitler understood where the greatest danger was coming from, but it was already too late." With great effort, the Soviets were able to recover from the shattering blow. Stalin succeeded in forming new armies to replace those lost in the second half of 1941.

What can now be stated with certainty -- thanks to the work of Suvorov and other revisionist historians -- is that in smashing the great Soviet military buildup in 1941, Hitler dashed Stalin's plan to quickly conquer Europe, and that, in spite of his defeat in 1945, Hitler saved at least the western half of Europe, and tens of millions of people, from the horrors of Soviet subjugation

This is only part of a larger article. Well worth reading.

Did Hitler expect England to come to it's aid against Russia at some point?

I never understood why Germany did not do all it could in attacking England.

That last bit is worth investigation.

K

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sidious
Go google this ''Icebreaker - who really started the second world war'' + Viktor Suvorov.


http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p22_Bishop.html

Suvorov believes that Hitler's preemptive strike came just two or three weeks before Stalin's own planned assault. Thus, as Wehrmacht forces smashed Soviet formations in the initial weeks of the "Barbarossa" attack, the Germans marveled at the great numbers of Soviet tanks and other materiel destroyed or captured -- an enormous buildup sufficient not just for an assault on Germany, but for the conquest of all of Europe. Suvorov writes

Hitler decided that it was not worth his while waiting any longer. He was the first to go, without waiting for the blow of the "liberating" dagger to stab him in the back. He had begun the war in the most favorable conditions which could possibly have existed for an aggressor; but given the nature of Stalin's grand plan, he could never have won it. Even in the most unfavorable conditions, the Red Army was able to "liberate" half of Europe ...

As devastating as it was, Hitler's assault was not fatal. It came too late to be successful. "Even the Wehrmacht's surprise attack on the Soviet Union could no longer save Hitler and his empire," Suvorov writes. "Hitler understood where the greatest danger was coming from, but it was already too late." With great effort, the Soviets were able to recover from the shattering blow. Stalin succeeded in forming new armies to replace those lost in the second half of 1941.

What can now be stated with certainty -- thanks to the work of Suvorov and other revisionist historians -- is that in smashing the great Soviet military buildup in 1941, Hitler dashed Stalin's plan to quickly conquer Europe, and that, in spite of his defeat in 1945, Hitler saved at least the western half of Europe, and tens of millions of people, from the horrors of Soviet subjugation

This is only part of a larger article. Well worth reading.

Did Hitler expect England to come to it's aid against Russia at some point?

I never understood why Germany did not do all it could in attacking England.

The idea of letting the British army escape at Dunkirk, was not only to allow themselves to preserve their honour, but as a sign of good faith.
Even then Hitler was naive to the bottomfeeding scum pulling the strings of churchill.
And yes, the plan was that Germany and the UK join forces to destroy communism.
I told you guys I would take you on a ride to places you have never been, didn't I?
And we are only just starting.

[777]

I've always found it screemingly obvious that WW2 was partly fought to facilitate the creation of Israel and global pro-Jewish sympathy. You don't even need to scratch the surface to see this.......

That said, this thread has been nothing short of mindblowing. Thank you Palpatine, for a rollercoaster! I've spent most the day reading this and the links within and feel like I've been truly schooled.

Massive gratitude to all clued up contributors.

[Lord Sidious]

I've always found it screemingly obvious that WW2 was partly fought to facilitate the creation of Israel and global pro-Jewish sympathy. You don't even need to scratch the surface to see this.......

That said, this thread has been nothing short of mindblowing. Thank you Palpatine, for a rollercoaster! I've spent most the day reading this and the links within and feel like I've been truly schooled.

Massive gratitude to all clued up contributors.

Rollercoaster? I didn't even pull the lever to let it rip yet.
Seriously though, I am glad that you are getting something out of it.
The start was a bit rockey with nuggetry abounding, people accusing me of various things, but we have proceeded along nicely and now we are into ''paydirt'' and the info is flowing out.

[aikisaw]

I've always found it screemingly obvious that WW2 was partly fought to facilitate the creation of Israel and global pro-Jewish sympathy. You don't even need to scratch the surface to see this.......

That said, this thread has been nothing short of mindblowing. Thank you Palpatine, for a rollercoaster! I've spent most the day reading this and the links within and feel like I've been truly schooled.

Massive gratitude to all clued up contributors.

Welcome aboard there some twists and turns on this ride but so far all is good.

You can never have too many Star Wars fans on a thread.

[Meditatio]

THERE IS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING..NOTHING IS COINCIDENCE.

For Americans, the overthrow of our nation was quietly done by this cabal of animals, they first took over our money supply... then our banking,then quietly took over our medicine, then our media/entertainment industries, they own most sportsteams, then our news, then our universities, then our libraries, then our publishing both print, music,then our corporations, then most of our crime, and finally they took over our government....now there is no aspect of this lunacy that isn't pervasive in our existence.
Doubt that this is true? They don't try to hide this fact. They want you to know..
all you have to do is look at their last names. Look at where they meet. Look at who they support.Read their 'religious tracts, they tell you right up front what they think of you, and your part in their world..we're the slaves...they are the master race.

My hope is that we can expose this, as the ONLY World War there ever was, and is, as it is ongoing and about to be won. By them.

My view is, free thinking humanity is and has been a thing of the past. Less than 1% of the population of the earth has any idea such a conspiracy even exists. and if you get too close...or get in their way...you're dead.

Now that's just my opinion...I could be wrong...

Still...I refuse to hate anyone...I will not be dragged down to their level...and I wish love and peace for all humankind...

even them.

Beautifully writ. Thanks, just what I need to show my brothers, something succinct and undeniably clear.

The saying 'For Evil To Conquer Only Requires Good Men To Do Nothing' also has its opposite.

For evil is done in the dark, has to done coercively, getting others to do the dirty work for them, keeping ignorance all around. I say that they have their work cut out for them. For evil men will be lazy, and more inclined to sit back and gloat/goat about their position. Good men believe in themselves, and in something larger than themselves, something infinetly more inspiring than security/power. Let the best man win. Credit where credits due, I say. If they are to work for it, good luck to them. The only advantage they have is that they will lie, and not stop to think about doing anything to get their way. That is their head start and they need it. A good man has to check himself, and walk a narrow path. That makes the journey slower, but more certain. A good man feels doubts, many things to slow him down, but, he feels. As Leonardo Da Vinci says
'All Knowledge Begins With Feeling'.

The path to evil is lazy: one enters the wide end of a funnnel, always taking the easy option, only to find the ensuing narrows hard. A good man takes the narrow hard path, and finds that it widens and becomes easier.
In ultimate truth, there is no differerence between us. Something they may never understand!
So understand that.
love
J

[karelia]

Here's an interesting take on Eichmann by Irving: http://codoh.com/irving/irveichgoebb.html

Looks like Eichmann was one of the first to realise who was behind bringing his crew into power and the subsequent fall...

[Meditatio]

I am not sure why this needs "approval" There is no censorship here so long as what is written is done with the best of intents and historical facts can be supported with references.
Witchy

It needs consideration, because 6 countries currently have laws banning speech about it. Basically newspeak. Holocaust denial is like a new dictionary term. And the whole concept is supposed to be so horribly revolting that anyone who brings it up is considered shameless scum. Pity really, since the only holocaust is the one going on in Palestine.
Also, didnt the fashion great just get picked up for 'saying something'?
Its complelty hypocritical. We have Islamic fundamentalists in pakistan murdering people for speaking out about changing and relaxing laws regarding 'insulting' their beliefs, and we admonish ourselves if we don' find that completly unjust, and yet, we are not allowed to stand by our own beliefs of free speech on this controversial subject, lest the jews get annoyed that the truth may be revealed. They got Israel. Can anyone explain how england managed to withdraw from the war there and 'hand it over', like it was theirs to give?
Lest we forget what a sham the nuremberg trials were.

[Lord Sidious]

Here's an interesting take on Eichmann by Irving: http://codoh.com/irving/irveichgoebb.html

Looks like Eichmann was one of the first to realise who was behind bringing his crew into power and the subsequent fall...

Some interesting quotes from that link.


First of all, Adolf Eichmann is quite plain throughout these papers that the word Endlösung, or "final solution," meant only one thing to him, and that was Madagascar. When he addressed his mind to the "final solution of the Jewish problem" in the late 1930s and early 1940s, it was quite plain to him that it was only a plan to sweep all the Jews of Europe aboard boats and transport them lock, stock, and barrel down to Madagascar, where they would be on an island where they couldn't bother any of their neighbors and where none of their neighbors could bother them

Remember I told you guys what the final solution was?


The second interesting thing that emerges from Eichmann's own papers is that he's chewing over in his mind-- he's frightfully repetitive -- he keeps on coming back, again and again, in his manuscripts and in these conversations to who was behind it, and what was behind it. What was behind the "Holocaust" (if we can use that word loosely here now)? He keeps coming back to the appalling thought: Did they manage to use us? Did the Zionists use the Nazis to further their own ends? Was the Holocaust something that they themselves inflicted on their own body, in order to bring about their Zionist cause in the long run?

The zionists and the NSDAP both wanted the exact same thing, the jews out of Europe. The zionists would make almost any sacrifice to acheive this.


Now, that's not justification. One crime doesn't justify another crime, that's plain. But this is in the memoirs. He also says, "Besides, we had by this time already learned of the Jews' plans for Germany." He mentions explicitly the book by Theodore Kaufman, Germany Must Perish. This is most interesting, because in the Goebbels diaries of August 1941 (which have also not yet been published), Goebbels also mentions Kaufman's book as justification.

This book, published in the United States by a deranged American Jew, presents a crazy plan for liquidating millions of Germans after the war. It was published in August 1941, and is referred to by Goebbels a few weeks before he introduced the plan for Jews to wear a yellow star. You can see a logical sequence of events, and Eichmann refers to this book as being one reason why, in his own mind, he can justify to himself the crimes that he was seeing committed.

Google this book people, see what some jews wanted to do to the Germans, BEFORE the so called holocaust is meant to have started.


Eichmann's comments on the Höss memoirs are annihilating. Reading where Rudolf Höss is saying that two and a half million Jews have been liquidated at Auschwitz, the camp where he was commandant, Eichmann comments, "Where does Höss believe that he got these two and a half million Jews? Not from me. Because to have liquidated two and a half million decrepit, elderly, unworkable Jews, I must have had to feed to him three, four, five, six or seven million Jews in that space of time, and from the transport point of view alone this would have been totally impossible."

You see, the memoirs of Eichmann are very useful in this respect. He was the transport specialist whose job it was to round up the Jews in Hungary and Slovakia. and ship them off to Germany for forced labor and for dissipation to the other labor camps. He knew that shipping off millions of Jews wasn't something you do at the snap of your fingers: you had to have conferences with the railway officials and with the road officials, and with the guards and with everybody else who was going to be involved in all this. You had to provide the food for the transports which were going to be on the rails for four or five or six days. All this had to be prepared and planned with typical German bureaucracy and method, and that took meetings and conferences. And Eichmann said, "If you're going to ship five or six million Jews across Europe to Auschwitz at that time, let me tell you how many trains that would have taken," and he worked out how many trains it would have taken, because he knew.

"You're not only going to have trains going that way full of Jews, you're going to have empty trains coming back. And you're going to have to have a circulation time, a time where they're unloading at one end, a time where they're loading at the other end... You're going to need so many thousands of wagons" of rolling stock. He worked out exactly how much rolling stock would have been needed, in these memoirs, and he said, "This alone proves that Rudolf H_ss was talking through his hat. These figures are totally fantastic, and what the hell is Höss up to?" That is a brief, lurid summary of what Eichmann writes as he's sitting in what he believes to be safety in the underground in Argentina, reading these memoirs of Höss, published in 1958.

Like I said, Eichmann was a transport officer, an Obersturmbannfuhrer in the SS. They would not accept sloppy work.


It's immaterial, one way or the other, because we must never overlook one basic fact: this is a postwar document, and any historian can now confirm that nowhere in all the archives of the world has yet been found one wartime document referring to a Führer's order to destroy the Jews, or for that matter, one wartime document referring to gas chambers or gassings. All the documents that refer to Führer orders and gas chambers are postwar documents; statements by people in the dock at Nuremberg, memoirs written by the commandant at Krakow in Poland, and the like. You can't overlook this basic watershed between wartime and postwar documents. If there's no wartime document that says there was a Führer order, if no wartime document talks of gas chambers, then there has to be some explanation for that

I think this is a key point, about postwar documentation.


But most lethal of all, and I suppose taking up more than 50 percent of the volume of the Eichmann papers, is the description by Eichmann of his negotiations with the Zionists in 1944. After the German invasion of Hungary, Eichmann was sent there to round up the Jews and ship them off. Two Zionist leaders came forward, Joel Brand and Reszö Kasztner [Köstner], and offered to deal with him -- to trade with him -- to rescue the Jews of Hungary and Slovakia, whereby the Germans could keep the Jewish "mob" (and in fact, they offered, the Jewish community in Hungary would be glad to help round them up) if in return Eichmann would guarantee to spare 20,000 of the fittest, the best, the Jewish elite, the toughest ones who were needed in the new Zionist state of Israel.

Eichmann describes these conferences in great detail. He has almost total recall. His descriptions reveal all the cunning and cynicism of the Zionist leaders at that time, at that stage of the war [1944] in a manner which, I think, the Jewish community today would find deeply distressing. This, I think, is why the Eichmann memoirs had to be suppressed, because of the detail. Kasztner was subsequently assassinated in Israel, years later.

There is no doubt about what happened because, working in the archives, I've come across records relating to the British end of these negotiations, which eventually became the famous "Jews-for-trucks" deal. In this, Brand was sent out to negotiate with the British in Turkey, in Palestine, and Egypt; and the deal being that in return for thousands of Jews the world community was to provide the Germans with trucks and motor equipment for fighting on the Russian front. (Not on the western front, of course: the deal had to be the trucks would only be used on the Russian front.) In return, the SS agreed to release a number of Jews. Eichmann was the person handling this deal in Hungary for Germany, and Brand and Kasztner were handling the deal for the Zionists.

These are the lengths they will go to.
Then, after, they cry anti-semitism to keep the ''little jews'' in check.
This is why we HAVE to crack this anti-semitism crap.
Have you guys got any idea how many jews believe this?
How much darkness is drawn to them from this belief?
And in the meantime, jehovah, the god of war thanks them for his meals.
We have to stop this madness.
Also, I would suggest you all have a look at that link, Irving is an interesting guy.
CODOH is the Committee for the Open Debate On the Holocaust run by Bradley Smith

I am not sure why this needs "approval" There is no censorship here so long as what is written is done with the best of intents and historical facts can be supported with references.
Witchy

It needs consideration, because 6 countries currently have laws banning speech about it. Basically newspeak. Holocaust denial is like a new dictionary term. And the whole concept is supposed to be so horribly revolting that anyone who brings it up is considered shameless scum. Pity really, since the only holocaust is the one going on in Palestine.
Also, didnt the fashion great just get picked up for 'saying something'?
Its complelty hypocritical. We have Islamic fundamentalists in pakistan murdering people for speaking out about changing and relaxing laws regarding 'insulting' their beliefs, and we admonish ourselves if we don' find that completly unjust, and yet, we are not allowed to stand by our own beliefs of free speech on this controversial subject, lest the jews get annoyed that the truth may be revealed. They got Israel. Can anyone explain how england managed to withdraw from the war there and 'hand it over', like it was theirs to give?
Lest we forget what a sham the nuremberg trials were.

I agree with all you say here, except I care not a jot about their ''laws'' about the truth.
What type of ''truth'' needs a penal code to protect it?

[soulsinger]

Has anyone here ever talked with a holocaust survivor in person? Seen the numbers tattooed on their arm? Heard their stories from the concentration camp?

As a person of Jewish heritage, I find so much of the anti-Jewish talk in "conspiracy" discussions very disheartening. According to many people on the internet, we Jews are the MAIN source of all the world's problems and evils. I ask myself, how can this be? Neither I, nor my family, nor anyone with whom my family has associated, has participated in a zionist plot to deceive and oppress others. MANY (and nearly all whom I know) Jews are deeply opposed to the treatment of the Palestinian people (including me). I have known my culture to produce wise, kind, and good-hearted people. Also, a bunch of jerks, just as in any human group.

I'm not saying all Jews are innocent of conspiracy, just as I can't say that about non-Jews. I'm just saying... a lot of people talk and talk about Jews as if we're a homogeneous group, agreeing on some grand agenda. Do all (or even most, or even a significant percentage of) people of ANY race, nationality, or religion unite in common purpose?? No. Never. We're just *people,* like any others. The vast majority are not rich, powerful, or influential on the global scale.

I'm not sure how the tragedy of the torture and killing of six million people can be EXAGGERATED. Nor the tragedy of the torture and killing of the millions more who were homosexual, gypsies, handicapped, or sympathizers with the persecuted. Yes, certainly, in other conflicts there has been loss of life in greater numbers. I think the reason the holocaust is so viscerally memorable to those in the Western world... is cultural proximity. People have friends, relatives, *personal* connections to a horrific atrocity, and that makes it more personally relevant to them. Deaths in Russia or African nations, while tragic, have failed to capture the Western consciousness. This is a failure of our cultural barriers and awarenesses.... not necessarily the result of specific programming.

If anything, I believe the lack of empathy and identification between cultures, races, and nationalities... is the TRUE result of our divisive, oppressive RULERS. Ask WHY there is so much hatred around the world, that keeps us divided.

This subject requires great care, and open-mindedness toward ANY evidence and testimony. Even if we discover things we didn't want to hear.

[Lord Sidious]

Has anyone here ever talked with a holocaust survivor in person? Seen the numbers tattooed on their arm? Heard their stories from the concentration camp?

To be honest, I have not, nor would I be too interested in doing so.
I hear you ask why?
Because the majority of ''survivors'' whose stories I have read are not credible witnesses. If they were questioned in a neutral venue and required to give more than verbal evidece, meaning that they had to back up their stories, they would fail.
Plus, there are many that have been revealed to be outright frauds.


As a person of Jewish heritage, I find so much of the anti-Jewish talk in "conspiracy" discussions very disheartening. According to many people on the internet, we Jews are the MAIN source of all the world's problems and evils.

I don't blame you for feeling like that.
I would caution you though, that is how you are meant to feel. I don't know if you have read all of my posts in this thread or not, but for me, breaking this myth of the holocaust is necessary.
This will be the breaking of the inertia in then breaking anti-semitism and allowing jews like you to live without the fear and feelings you describe.
Some jews ARE the main source, but not the majority. One thing that doesn't win jews allies, and again it is a conditioned response, is the defense mechanism of shouting anti-semite at the questioners like myself.
Let me assure you, I am not against jews. Some jews, yes, all jews, no.
I have this strange religious belief, I really despise criminals and I don't care what colour or religion. Some jews are criminals, much the same as any other group. The problem for you, is that the criminal jews are the ones who control your entire group.
They are the ones causing the knee jerk reaction against all of you and they always did do this.


I ask myself, how can this be? Neither I, nor my family, nor anyone with whom my family has associated, has participated in a zionist plot to deceive and oppress others. MANY (and nearly all whom I know) Jews are deeply opposed to the treatment of the Palestinian people (including me). I have known my culture to produce wise, kind, and good-hearted people. Also, a bunch of jerks, just as in any human group.
Indeed, as I already spoke of. We have jews besides you on the forum too. If you care to participate in this thread, you may find it revealing.
It may be painful, as you find out things you would rather not have known, but on the same token, if you were inclined to not know things, you wouldn't be here on Avalon.


I'm not saying all Jews are innocent of conspiracy, just as I can't say that about non-Jews. I'm just saying... a lot of people talk and talk about Jews as if we're a homogeneous group, agreeing on some grand agenda. Do all (or even most, or even a significant percentage of) people of ANY race, nationality, or religion unite in common purpose?? No. Never. We're just *people,* like any others. The vast majority are not rich, powerful, or influential on the global scale.

If 5% of jews knew the agenda of the slave masters, I would be shocked.
Unfortunately for you and the rest of your people, you are the scapegoats of a being that is the head of the slave racket.
Whether he is a god or an alien is open to interpretation, but he sees you as useful in diverting the attention of the rest of us.
''The jews'' are an easily identifiable group that all types of things can be pinned on. Some jews have done, some they have not.
But even with the things they have done, it is a small group within the large group that has done it.
Without the rest of you, they are powerless, so they have a vested interest in keeping your mind and soul captive to this ''anti-semitism'' lie.


I'm not sure how the tragedy of the torture and killing of six million people can be EXAGGERATED.

I am going to get to that number soon. That number is one from ancient jewish prophecies involving the arrival of the jewish messiah.


Nor the tragedy of the torture and killing of the millions more who were homosexual, gypsies, handicapped, or sympathizers with the persecuted. Yes, certainly, in other conflicts there has been loss of life in greater numbers. I think the reason the holocaust is so viscerally memorable to those in the Western world... is cultural proximity. People have friends, relatives, *personal* connections to a horrific atrocity, and that makes it more personally relevant to them. Deaths in Russia or African nations, while tragic, have failed to capture the Western consciousness. This is a failure of our cultural barriers and awarenesses.... not necessarily the result of specific programming.

Let me tell you now, I don't believe in all these killings that have been alleged. For one thing, how many years did this supposedly go on? How many people were involved in all of this?
If you sit down with numbers, do the sums, you will find it is not possible on the 6 million jews, let alone the rest.


If anything, I believe the lack of empathy and identification between cultures, races, and nationalities... is the TRUE result of our divisive, oppressive RULERS. Ask WHY there is so much hatred around the world, that keeps us divided.

I would agree that this is a problem, and one that needs to be cracked. We need to stop this racism madness now, before it consumes the whole planet.


This subject requires great care, and open-mindedness toward ANY evidence and testimony. Even if we discover things we didn't want to hear.

I would agree 1000% and again, I invite you to participate here.
I can't promise you a smooth ride, but I can promise you one thing, you will not see things the same after we journey together long enough.

Let me also put this to you, I am not only not your enemy, I could be one of the best friends that jews have ever had.
Together we can crack anti-semitism and free jews from the whole paradigm.
Not being persecuted and victims should be something that the ''little jew'' would find promising.

By the way, welcome to Avalon.

[soulsinger]

For Americans, the overthrow of our nation was quietly done by this cabal of animals, they first took over our money supply... then our banking,then quietly took over our medicine, then our media/entertainment industries, they own most sportsteams, then our news, then our universities, then our libraries, then our publishing both print, music,then our corporations, then most of our crime, and finally they took over our government....now there is no aspect of this lunacy that isn't pervasive in our existence.
Doubt that this is true? They don't try to hide this fact. They want you to know..
all you have to do is look at their last names. Look at where they meet. Look at who they support.Read their 'religious tracts, they tell you right up front what they think of you, and your part in their world..we're the slaves...they are the master race.

My hope is that we can expose this, as the ONLY World War there ever was, and is, as it is ongoing and about to be won. By them.


See, I'm actually very open to learning more about the strange dealings behind WWII and the holocaust. I was very interested in the material on Project Camelot about the "Nazi Bell," as well as the occult beliefs / practices of the Nazis. I'm not against learning about anything that sheds new light-- including some of the material mentioned in this thread.

But every time I investigate things of this nature, I stumble upon these characterizations of the Jewish people. "Cabal of animals"??!!???? I mean really. It's gotten difficult to separate genuine investigation of the truth, from just plain racist speech.

I respect your freedom to say it. I just believe it's the flawed thinking that results from the PROGRAMMING designed to DIVIDE us humans from one another.

[karelia]

Has anyone here ever talked with a holocaust survivor in person? Seen the numbers tattooed on their arm? Heard their stories from the concentration camp?

<snip to save space>

I'm not sure how the tragedy of the torture and killing of six million people can be EXAGGERATED. Nor the tragedy of the torture and killing of the millions more who were homosexual, gypsies, handicapped, or sympathizers with the persecuted. Yes, certainly, in other conflicts there has been loss of life in greater numbers. I think the reason the holocaust is so viscerally memorable to those in the Western world... is cultural proximity. People have friends, relatives, *personal* connections to a horrific atrocity, and that makes it more personally relevant to them. Deaths in Russia or African nations, while tragic, have failed to capture the Western consciousness. This is a failure of our cultural barriers and awarenesses.... not necessarily the result of specific programming.

If anything, I believe the lack of empathy and identification between cultures, races, and nationalities... is the TRUE result of our divisive, oppressive RULERS. Ask WHY there is so much hatred around the world, that keeps us divided.

This subject requires great care, and open-mindedness toward ANY evidence and testimony. Even if we discover things we didn't want to hear.

First of all, it is my understanding that it's not about Jews, just like it's not about Christians or any other religion. What it's all about is to find the truth. Not your truth, not my truth, but the actual truth. And it's a painful process, no doubt. There was a time when I was extremely angry at the world at large because I had been duped, lied to, and disrespected, and those are not values I need, let alone want.

As far as I'm concerned, the plot to take over the world did not start with Adam Weisshaupt; he was nothing more than a tool to speed up the process, quite skillfully manipulated from the unseen. But finding the entire truth requires to go back further and further in history in order to piece together what we can find until, hopefully, our entire history becomes clear to us.
It's not about Jews; it's not even about zionists. It's about who is behind it all. Because you can't take the enemy down if you don't know who the enemy is.

[Lord Sidious]

For Americans, the overthrow of our nation was quietly done by this cabal of animals, they first took over our money supply... then our banking,then quietly took over our medicine, then our media/entertainment industries, they own most sportsteams, then our news, then our universities, then our libraries, then our publishing both print, music,then our corporations, then most of our crime, and finally they took over our government....now there is no aspect of this lunacy that isn't pervasive in our existence.
Doubt that this is true? They don't try to hide this fact. They want you to know..
all you have to do is look at their last names. Look at where they meet. Look at who they support.Read their 'religious tracts, they tell you right up front what they think of you, and your part in their world..we're the slaves...they are the master race.

My hope is that we can expose this, as the ONLY World War there ever was, and is, as it is ongoing and about to be won. By them.


See, I'm actually very open to learning more about the strange dealings behind WWII and the holocaust. I was very interested in the material on Project Camelot about the "Nazi Bell," as well as the occult beliefs / practices of the Nazis. I'm not against learning about anything that sheds new light-- including some of the material mentioned in this thread.

But every time I investigate things of this nature, I stumble upon these characterizations of the Jewish people. "Cabal of animals"??!!???? I mean really. It's gotten difficult to separate genuine investigation of the truth, from just plain racist speech.

I respect your freedom to say it. I just believe it's the flawed thinking that results from the PROGRAMMING designed to DIVIDE us humans from one another.

I can see how you would not like that post.
To be fair, I don't think he meant jews, I think he meant jewish and other criminals.

[aikisaw]

Thank you Lord Sidious and Karelia for two well written and thoughtful reply's to Soulsingers concerns.

[soulsinger]

I can see how you would not like that post.
To be fair, I don't think he meant jews, I think he meant jewish and other criminals.

So when he says, "all you have to do is look at their last names. Look at where they meet. Look at who they support.Read their 'religious tracts, they tell you right up front what they think of you, and your part in their world..we're the slaves...they are the master race." ...he's talking about just criminals?

How does a person's last name, or religious tracts, indicate their status as a criminal? Unless one is making assumptions based on prejudice.

What say you, Lefty Dave? Were you referencing specifically Jews as the "cabal of animals" taking over the major institutions in the U.S., or just all criminals generally? And if you were referencing criminals in general, how would their last names or religious beliefs identify them as criminals?

[jorr lundstrom]

Hi Soulsinger

In fact I have, when I was 7-8 years, 1957-58 we had a neighbor, a polish woman.

Johanna, she had the number tatooed on her arm. I dont remember wich camp.

She was odd, I was a little afraid of her, she was very unpredictable.

This morning I had to stare down into a yet deeper abyss in our collective

shadow than I could imagined existed. Its one thing to round upp a bunch

of people and kill them and burn their bodies. Its a totally different deal

to keep them alive under circumstances that hardly was possible to survive under

with the purpose to create as much suffering as possible under as long time as possible.

And even deny them dying. And who arranged this? Gosh.

Sometimes I find it very difficult to balance how wonderful it is to be human with how

horrendous it can be. Its not an easy task. But its possible. Love and carrots

[Lord Sidious]

Thank you Lord Sidious and Karelia for two well written and thoughtful reply's to Soulsingers concerns.

Soulsinger and her kin are the hostages.
Why would I be anything other than concerned?
Once the hostages are freed, then we can sit down and rest.
Until then, we have to weather the storm.
And that can include all sorts of namecalling and stuff.
I don't mean from her, I mean from all sorts of people, been there, done that.
Google my sigline, see what it means.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




I can see how you would not like that post.
To be fair, I don't think he meant jews, I think he meant jewish and other criminals.

So when he says, "all you have to do is look at their last names. Look at where they meet. Look at who they support.Read their 'religious tracts, they tell you right up front what they think of you, and your part in their world..we're the slaves...they are the master race." ...he's talking about just criminals?

How does a person's last name, or religious tracts, indicate their status as a criminal? Unless one is making assumptions based on prejudice.

What say you, Lefty Dave? Were you referencing specifically Jews as the "cabal of animals" taking over the major institutions in the U.S., or just all criminals generally? And if you were referencing criminals in general, how would their last names or religious beliefs identify them as criminals?

In that post, he was probably talking about jewish criminals.
But you have done the best thing, asked him to clarify his words.

[soulsinger]

This morning I had to stare down into a yet deeper abyss in our collective

shadow than I could imagined existed. Its one thing to round upp a bunch

of people and kill them and burn their bodies. Its a totally different deal

to keep them alive under circumstances that hardly was possible to survive under

with the purpose to create as much suffering as possible under as long time as possible.

And even deny them dying. And who arranged this? Gosh.

Sometimes I find it very difficult to balance how wonderful it is to be human with how

horrendous it can be. Its not an easy task. But its possible. Love and carrots

Thank you, Jorr. Thank you for this. This is human compassion.

[aikisaw]

Lord Sidious

Soulsinger and her kin are the hostages.
Why would I be anything other than concerned?
Once the hostages are freed, then we can sit down and rest.
Until then, we have to weather the storm.
And that can include all sorts of namecalling and stuff.
I don't mean from her, I mean from all sorts of people, been there, done that.
Google my sigline, see what it means.

I have no problem weathering the storm.

I thought you and Karelia did a nice job with your responses. It was meant to be a compliment.
I think compliments are still allowed here at Avalon.

You and I discussed your sigline before.


Ní siocháin go saoirse ..... no peace without freedom.

I like it.

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sidious

Soulsinger and her kin are the hostages.
Why would I be anything other than concerned?
Once the hostages are freed, then we can sit down and rest.
Until then, we have to weather the storm.
And that can include all sorts of namecalling and stuff.
I don't mean from her, I mean from all sorts of people, been there, done that.
Google my sigline, see what it means.

I have no problem weathering the storm.

I thought you and Karelia did a nice job with your responses. It was meant to be a compliment.
I think compliments are still allowed here at Avalon.

You and I discussed your sigline before.


Ní siocháin go saoirse ..... no peace without freedom.

I like it.

Yes, I know what you were saying.
I was using the opportunity to explain a bit more of what I am about.
And where we are going with all this.

[soulsinger]

Until then, we have to weather the storm.
And that can include all sorts of namecalling and stuff.
I don't mean from her, I mean from all sorts of people, been there, done that.


Please understand: I don't intend to call anyone a name, such as "antisemite" or "racist." I am not in the habit of being rigid in my beliefs, or of knee-jerk reactions. That is not my style.

[Lord Sidious]

Until then, we have to weather the storm.
And that can include all sorts of namecalling and stuff.
I don't mean from her, I mean from all sorts of people, been there, done that.


Please understand: I don't intend to call anyone a name, such as "antisemite" or "racist." I am not in the habit of being rigid in my beliefs, or of knee-jerk reactions. That is not my style.

Sorry, I didn't mean you.

[aikisaw]

Lord Sidious

Google this book people, see what some jews wanted to do to the Germans, BEFORE the so called holocaust is meant to have started.




Quote Originally Posted by David Irving
Now, that's not justification. One crime doesn't justify another crime, that's plain. But this is in the memoirs. He also says, "Besides, we had by this time already learned of the Jews' plans for Germany." He mentions explicitly the book by Theodore Kaufman, Germany Must Perish. This is most interesting, because in the Goebbels diaries of August 1941 (which have also not yet been published), Goebbels also mentions Kaufman's book as justification.

This book, published in the United States by a deranged American Jew, presents a crazy plan for liquidating millions of Germans after the war. It was published in August 1941, and is referred to by Goebbels a few weeks before he introduced the plan for Jews to wear a yellow star. You can see a logical sequence of events, and Eichmann refers to this book as being one reason why, in his own mind, he can justify to himself the crimes that he was seeing committed.

You can read the book online if you wish here.
http://www.codoh.com/germany/gerperish.html


Theodore Kaufman did hate everything about Germany and their people. He spends 84 pages telling you why. It struck me as contrived. It was written up to this point for people looking for a reason to hate Germany. Here is 84 pages of reasons Germany stinks, pick 1.
Josef Goebbles bought a million copies and used it a a propaganda tool for Germany.

The first 84 pages were a preamble for the next 15 pages. Here was the plan and this did not strike me as contrived.


And there is such a German law which decrees that death to her.

"As in all human affairs, there must also be in every system of punishment a last limit, a ne plus ultra that no punishment can overstep. Thus even from the point of view of pure theory the necessity of the death-penalty is postulated; it is, as the ultimate punishment on earth, the indispensable keystone of every ordered system of criminal law. No apparent reasons which are alleged against it can withstand any serious criticism. The State, which has the right to sacrifice for its own protection the flower of its youth, is to feel so nice a regard for the life of a murderer? We must rather allow to the State the right to make away with men who are undoubtedly injurious to the common weal. That the powers that be must bear the sword is an expression which runs deep in the blood of the honest man; if this truth is to be banished out of the world, great wrong is done to the simple moral feeling of the people. The ultimate problems of the moral life are to be solved in the domain of the practical, not of the theoretical, reason. The conscience of every earnest man demands that blood be atoned by blood, and the common man must simply grow doubtful of the existence of justice on earth, if this last and highest punishment

(p85)

is not inflicted. The State makes itself ridiculous and contemptible if it cannot finally dispose of a criminal. There must be a limit for mercy and indulgence, as for the law, a last limit at which the State says: 'This is the end, It must be no longer possible here.' It must be possible to inflict at last a punishment beyond which there is nothing, and that is the punishment of death." (Heinrich von Treitschke.)

Let German Will be done!

* * * * *

There remains now but to determine the best way, the most practical and expeditious manner in which the ultimate penalty must be levied upon the German nation. Quite naturally, massacre and wholesale execution must be ruled out. In addition to being impractical when applied to a population of some seventy million, such methods are inconsistent with the moral obligations and ethical practices of civilization. There remains then but one mode of ridding the world forever of Germanism - and that is to stem the source from which issue those warlusted souls, by preventing the people of Germany from ever again reproducing their kind. This modern method, known to science as Eugenic Sterilization, is at once practical, humane and thorough. Sterilization has become a

(p86)

byword of science as the best means of ridding the human race of its misfits, the degenerate, the insane, the hereditary criminal.

Sterilization is not to he confused with castration. It is a safe and simple operation, quite harmless and painless, neither mutilating nor unsexing the patient. Its effects -are most often less distressing than vaccination and no more serious than a tooth extraction. Too, the operation is extremely rapid requiring no more than ten minutes to complete. The patient may resume his work immediately afterwards. Even in the case of the female the Operation, though taking longer to perform, is as safe and simple. Performed thousands of times, no records indicate cases of complications or death. When one realizes that such health measures as vaccination and serum treatments are considered as direct benefit to the community, certainly sterilization of the German People cannot but be considered a great health measure promoted by humanity to immunize itself forever against the Virus of Germanism.

The population of Germany, excluding conquered and annexed territories, is about 70,000,000, almost equally divided between male and female. To achieve the purpose of German extinction it would be necessary to only

(p87)

sterilize some 48,000,000 --a figure which excludes, because of their limited power to procreate, males over 60 years of age, and females over 45.

Concerning the males subject to sterilization the army groups, as organized units, would be the easiest and quickest to deal with. Taking 20,000 surgeons as an arbitrary number and on the assumption that each will perform a minimum of 25 operations daily, it would take no more than one month, at the maximum, to complete their sterilization. Naturally the more doctors available, and many more than the 20,000 we mention would be available considering all the nations to be drawn upon, the less time would be required. The balance of the male civilian population of Germany could be treated within three month. Inasmuch as sterilization of women need somewhat more time, it may be computed, that the entire female population of Germany could be sterilized within a period of three years or less. Complete sterilization of both sexes, and not only one, is to be considered necessary in view of the present German doctrine that so much as one drop of true German blood constitutes a German.

Of course, after complete sterilization there will cease to be a birth rate in Germany. At the normal death rate of 2% per annum, German life will diminish at the rate

(p88)

of 1,500,000 yearly. Accordingly in the span of two generations that which cost millions of lives and centuries of useless effort, namely, the elimination of Germanism and its carriers, will have been an accomplished fact. By virtue of its loss of self-perpetuation Germany Will will have atrophied and German power reduced to negligible importance.

Reviewing the foregoing case of sterilization we find that several factors resulting from it firmly establish its advocacy.

Firstly, no physical pain will be imposed upon the inhabitants of Germany through its application, a decidedly more humane treatment than they will have deserved. As a matter of fact it is not inconceivable that after Germany s defeat, the long-suffering peoples of Europe may demand a far less humane revenge than that of mere sterilization.

Secondly, execution of the plan would in no way disorganize the present population nor would it cause any sudden mass upheavals and dislocations The consequent gradual disappearance of the Germans from Europe will leave no more negative effect upon that continent than did the gradual disappearance of Indians upon this.

Here again, a German attests to this point, Spengler's

(p89)

famous: "A nation or an individual may die and leave no gap!"

* * * * *

A detailed program of the manner in which the outraged victims of Germanic onslaught might make certain that Germany leave no gap might be put hypothetically:

Germany has lost its war. She sues for peace. The imperative demands of the victor people that Germany must perish forever makes it obligatory for the leaders to select mass sterilization of the Germans as the best means of wiping them out permanently The proceed to:

1. Immediately and completely disarm the German army and have all armaments removed from German territory.

1. Place all German utility and heavy industrial plants under heavy guard, and replace German workers by those of Allied nationality.

1. Segregate the German army into groups, concentrate them in severely restricted areas, and summarily sterilize them.

1. Organize the civilian population, both male and female, within territorial sectors, and effect their sterilization.

(p90)

1. Divide the German army (after its sterilization has been completed) into labor battalions, and locate their services toward the rebuilding of those cities which they ruined.

1. Partition Germany and apportion its lands. The accompanying map gives some idea of possible land adjustments which might be made in connection with Germany's extinction.

1. Restrict all German civilian travel beyond established borders until all sterilization has been completed.

1. Compel the German population of the apportioned territories to learn the language of its area, and within one year to cease the publication of all books, newspapers and notices in the German language, as well as to restrict German-language broadcasts and discontinue the maintenance of German-language schools.

1. Make one exception to an otherwise severely strict enforcement of total sterilization, by exempting from such treatment only Germans whose relatives, being citizens of various victor nations, assume financial responsibility for their emigration and maintenance and moral responsibility for their actions.

Thus, into an oblivion "which she would have visited upon the world, exists Germany.

[loveandgratitude]

It is important that the Jewish people study the history of world war 1 and 2 just like many other people are doing, without bias and preconceived ideas. To remain open to the information and the undeniable facts that are not presented in the history books. The very fact that it is illegal in many countries to discuss the Holocaust should tell us something is rotten. It is obvious that something is being hidden from us.

Personally and only from a personal perspective in my stuides I have found that many people on this stage of history who say that are "jewish" are Zionists with a leaning towards Satinism or Luficer worship. Many of the characters in cast of this play, such as the Russian Communist Leaders, The British Leaders, The USA leaders were Jewish and still are. If we look behind the curtain at many of the actors in this play we find that they were indeed Jewish. We can only state the facts. For such a monority this is indeed perculiar.

I really think that if The Jewish people themselves do not uncover the awful truth themselves they will be the fall guys in the future. The innocent Jewish people will be the ones that the world will turn on. Maybe this was meant to be the end game. I do not know. This is the reason for this thread, to untangle the facts from fiction, the characters and their backgrounds and motives. Who was funding them, this is one area we have not discussed yet. Always follow the money.

It seems that the main characters were Jewish Zionists and of course many Jewish people were innocent and did not go along with the Zionist philosophy of creating the state of Israel. Maybe you can tell us, as far as I remember the Jewish people were not to return to Israel until the Messiah returned. If they did, then they would be cursed. I read this somewhere. Maybe that was the name of the game.

Many of the players real motives are hidden from plain view, they take on different costumes and identities to hide who they are. We along with many people in the world are trying their very best to unravel the truth. We deserve the truth and the Jewish people deserve the truth.

[karelia]

Many of the players real motives are hidden from plain view, they take on different costumes and identities to hide who they are.

That, ^.^, imo, is really, really important to keep in mind! There are players out there who land in their positions because they sold their soul for material riches; there are players who were coerced into it by blackmail and other forms of threats; and then there are the ones who naturally came to be in the positions they are.

[loveandgratitude]

GERMANY'S FORBIDDEN WORDS -
BY Brother Nathanael Kapner

Brother Nathanael Kapner was born a Jew and after studying the truth converted to a christian and started the Brother Nathanael Foundation to spreading the truth about Judiasm. His website is - http://www.realjewnews.com

His article about what is happening in Germany today regarding the Holocaust Revision and German youth today. Here is his article -

GERMANY HAS REPLACED CHRISTIANITY with a pernicious cult: “Holocaust religion.”

In 1994, the parliament of the defunct “Bundesrepublik Deutschland” (BRD) - the post re-unification Federal Republic of Germany - treasonously mandated imposed Zionist legislation making it a criminal offense to deny or even play down the so-called “Jewish Holocaust.”

Anyone in Germany who publicly denies the propagandistic narrative upon which the terrorist state of Israel was established or questions any one of the many anomalies extant in the doctrine of official “history,” faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail.

Indeed, two German scholars, Ernst Zundel and Germar Rudolf were illegally abducted from the United States and imprisoned for presenting scientific evidence that a phenomenal hoax called the “Jewish Holocaust” had taken place.

Zundel’s lawyer, Sylvia Stolz, was herself imprisoned for three years in January of 2008 simply for presenting supportive evidence on behalf of her client. British historian David Irving was snatched by police on a private trip to Austria and imprisoned for once having presented verifiable proof that the gas chambers in Auschwitz were constructed as propagandistic museum pieces in late 1948.

Yet hardly anyone mentions the “German Holocaust” which entailed the systematic murder, starvation, and death by typhus of almost 3,500,000 displaced and impoverished German citizens, whose corpses were stacked in the former labor camps of Auschwitz, Belsen and Treblinka - and photographed by the Zionist media as “evidence” of “mass-murdered Jews.”

N A SPEECH given to the Israeli Knesset on March 19, 2008, Germany’s Chancellor, Angela Merkel, reiterated the decades-old reparations doctrine by saying: “Germans are filled with shame over the Jewish holocaust.”

The German media is now reporting that many Germans, particularly young people who no longer believe their teachers, are suffering from “holocaust fatigue” and no longer trust Berlin’s Zionist puppets, such as Angela Merkel, to tell them the truth. Yet even those who are brave enough to commit “heresy” and risk the wrath of the Jewish Inquisition are forced to whisper their dissent using coded language lest thy find themselves in a German Soviet Gulag, such as Mannheim.

Germany under its Zionist controlled leaders has now reached the point in which certain words used in German society will make one highly suspect. In Europe’s dissenting underground community these words are known as “Germany’s forbidden words.”

PUTTING A MUZZLE ON THE MOUTHS OF GERMANS

HIGHLY CHARGED WORDS which are monitored by the Zionist thought police express the true inner thoughts of most Germans. There are 5 words that could get a German in trouble:

1) “Leitkultur” - This word denotes the “predominant culture” of German and European social mores which most Germans wish to retain as part of their Germanic culture.

An example of the fallout which occurred after using the forbidden word “Leitkultur” was evidenced when Friedrich Merz, a former leading member of the Christian Democratic Union, used the term “Leitkultur von Deutschland” to describe what immigrants coming to Germany should aspire to.

Merz inspired, (as did Jurgen Molleman of the Free Democrats who is believed to have been “suicided” by Mossad in June 2003), an awakening German patriotism by striking a chord in a country where acceptance of “Alleinschuld,” (German guilt for WWII), continually propagated by Germany’s Jews and Zionist-leadership, is on the wane.

Merz’s use of the word “Leitkultur” sparked an intense national debate among ordinary people who long for a return to traditional German Christian values.

Leaders of the Zionist Jewish community attacked Merz with a vengeance. The German Jewish community leader, Paul Spiegel, the former President of the ADL-style Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland, facetiously asked 200,000 people gathered at the disingenuously named We Stand Up for Humanity and Tolerance demonstration held in Berlin on November 9, 2000:

— “What’s all this talk of Leitkultur? Does German Leitkultur include hunting down foreigners and burning synagogues? Are we talking about a culture or about the prevailing values of democracy as stated in our national constitution?

“For Article One of that constitution states: ‘The dignity of mankind is inviolable. The duty of national power is its protection.’ Now the dignity of mankind is inviolable not just the dignity of European Christians!” —
(Read the full speech translated by Hanna Sachs Here and reflect on the many ways in which Jews are working to strip Christians of their “inviolable dignity.”)

Merz quickly became anathema in the eyes of the Jewish-controlled media and has since effectively retired from active participation in politics.

2) “Verdorbenes Kultur”/”Entartete Kultur” - These phrases denote a rotten or decadent culture, which the German people of the 1920s and 1930s perceived as emanating from prominent Jews in the media, arts, film, theatre, and the sex and drugs trade.

The phrase “Verdorbene Kultur” was cited in July 2007 by Horst Mahler, a leading German revisionist historian, when saying that Hitler’s book “Mein Kampf” should no longer be banned in Germany since it provided well-founded definitions of what constituted a Zionist-enslaved culture in moral decline. In so doing, Mahler was subject to months of abuse by the Jewish-controlled media, Germany’s Central Council of Jews, and the political elites.

In his still very popular book, Hitler wrote that one of the main evils responsible for the suffering, hunger and poverty of the German people was the German-Jewish role in creating a “rotten culture” of decadent art designed to destroy the true moral fiber of a once-proud civilization:

— “Culturally, the Jew contaminates art, literature, and the theater by overthrowing all concepts of beauty and sublimity, of the noble and the good, and instead drags men down into the sphere of his own base nature” — Here

The idea of lifting the ban on “Mein Kampf” was swiftly criticised by Jewish groups. Wolfgang Benz, the head of the Centre For Anti-Semitism Research in Berlin, described it as “absurd.” Salomon Korn, of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, said it would be an insult to Holocaust survivors.

Horst Mahler, who is no stranger to the Federal Republic of Germany’s brutal Gulag system, has just been sentenced to 11 months imprisonment for treating the Jew Michel Friedman with “disrespect.” Friedman, a notoriously arrogant talk show host and a former deputy General Secretary of the ZJD with a criminal record as a cocaine dealer and a suspected key player in the illicit sex trafficking trade, filed suit following an interview with Mahler in the November 2007 German edition of “Vanity Fair.”

In September 2007, the Catholic Archbishop of Cologne, Cardinal Meisner, ignited a firestorm of controversy when he told his congregation “a culture without God is a decadent culture.”

The Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland went ballistic, denouncing the cardinal for using a word frequently cited by the National Socialists in their condemnation of decadent Jewish art, organized prostitution rings, sex trafficking and the drugs trade.

3) “Volksgemeinschaft” - This phrase denotes a society based upon the principles of a “Leitkultur” that prioritizes the needs of its own citizens. The Jewish State of Occupied Palestine (Israel) itself is indeed a “Volkgemeinschaft.”

However, in Germany, anyone who writes or speaks about the advantages of a
“Volksgemeinschaft” for the German people is subject to prosecution under Section 130 and other laws that prohibit speaking favorably of National Socialism, which itself was based upon the promotion of a Volksgemeinschaft. In Israel, such people who hold to this creed are described as the “Chosen People.” In Germany, they are branded as “Nazis” and face imprisonment of up to five years.

4) “Jude” (Jew) - It is considered by the authorities as “anti-Semitic” to call a Jew a “Jew.” One must always refer to a Jew as a “Jewish person.” The irony is that 95 percent of all Semites living in the world today are Arabs. The other five percent are Sephardic Jews, who are themselves genetically identical to Palestinians.

5) “Vaterland” (Fatherland) - The police are obliged to question any German who refers to his home country as the “Fatherland.” The word is associated with National Socialism and those inclined to use it are branded as “Nazis.”

In Germany there exists a list of hundreds of forbidden words and phrases. We, Brother Nathanael and Michael James, have mentioned only five. Remove the muzzle — go to jail.

[777]

Has anyone here ever talked with a holocaust survivor in person? Seen the numbers tattooed on their arm? Heard their stories from the concentration camp?

As a person of Jewish heritage, I find so much of the anti-Jewish talk in "conspiracy" discussions very disheartening. According to many people on the internet, we Jews are the MAIN source of all the world's problems and evils. I ask myself, how can this be? Neither I, nor my family, nor anyone with whom my family has associated, has participated in a zionist plot to deceive and oppress others. MANY (and nearly all whom I know) Jews are deeply opposed to the treatment of the Palestinian people (including me). I have known my culture to produce wise, kind, and good-hearted people. Also, a bunch of jerks, just as in any human group.

I'm not saying all Jews are innocent of conspiracy, just as I can't say that about non-Jews. I'm just saying... a lot of people talk and talk about Jews as if we're a homogeneous group, agreeing on some grand agenda. Do all (or even most, or even a significant percentage of) people of ANY race, nationality, or religion unite in common purpose?? No. Never. We're just *people,* like any others. The vast majority are not rich, powerful, or influential on the global scale.

I'm not sure how the tragedy of the torture and killing of six million people can be EXAGGERATED. Nor the tragedy of the torture and killing of the millions more who were homosexual, gypsies, handicapped, or sympathizers with the persecuted. Yes, certainly, in other conflicts there has been loss of life in greater numbers. I think the reason the holocaust is so viscerally memorable to those in the Western world... is cultural proximity. People have friends, relatives, *personal* connections to a horrific atrocity, and that makes it more personally relevant to them. Deaths in Russia or African nations, while tragic, have failed to capture the Western consciousness. This is a failure of our cultural barriers and awarenesses.... not necessarily the result of specific programming.

If anything, I believe the lack of empathy and identification between cultures, races, and nationalities... is the TRUE result of our divisive, oppressive RULERS. Ask WHY there is so much hatred around the world, that keeps us divided.

This subject requires great care, and open-mindedness toward ANY evidence and testimony. Even if we discover things we didn't want to hear.

This is a great post, and nice to see from the perspective of a person of Jewish heritage. I think you're right in feeling offended at true racism towards your people, anyone would. Racism is disgusting no matter which demographic it's aimed at and whom by.

What's of the upmost importance here is that we can freely debate it and be free to find out the real facts, with no censorship and a perpetual maintenance of our right to speak in whichever manner we choose about whomever we choose, should we be suitable truth-armed. And this goes for Jew and non-Jew alike.

What we're seeing here is not a bunch of mouthy conspiracy theorists talking "anti-jew" at all. We're seeing a bunch of intelligent, level headed individuals exercising their human right to find justice and a better world for their people. Including and especially FOR Jews, who are just as human as everyone else, no more no less. They deserve the truth as much as the homosexuals killed. No more no less.

We don't have a massive culture of homophobia stemming from the holocaust, we have one anyway. But we do apparently have the "super" racism legacy. And that (it would appear) has been cultivated by Jews and non-Jews, creating victims who were Jews and non-Jews but left a legacy that deeply favours Zion.

[Gustav]

Here's an interesting take on Eichmann by Irving: http://codoh.com/irving/irveichgoebb.html

Looks like Eichmann was one of the first to realise who was behind bringing his crew into power and the subsequent fall...

I am halfway trough now.. This is real history. Reading original sources, not interpretations. I am shocked but have an 'Indiana Jones' feeling when reading this. Thank you very much karelia!

[Meditatio]

HI, its the zionist jews that have perpetrated the myth. Not all jews. That they hate the karaite jews is common knowledge. Most jews read the torah/old testament, however even it has its variations. There are babylonian talmud readers and jerusalem talmud readers, and then there are zionist cabalah readers, mostly filled with hate about non jews.
Watch this talmud video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quTXwTjgfc0&feature=related

If there was any hate on the world its from them, not the supposed 'anti semitic' people. It seems that even discussing the subject is auto labeling one as 'being filled with hate and revulsion for all and every jew'. Its actually a cover they use by throwing interference and making you so afraid that you drop subject there and then. Does discussing the subject make one automatically 'anti semitic' (not even anti jewish, let alone simply unjewish..), and therefore anti-einstein, anti-barbara streisand, anti-woody allen, anti lord yehudi menuhin, anti-itzkah perlman, anti daniel barenboihm...ridiculous isn't it. Yes, there are many fine jews in the world.

Listen to Michael Hoffman discuss the subject of the label 'anti semetic'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4XreA-oC4
Believe me, the zionist jews have manipulated other jews, and you right where they want you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHKGOcUyQ-M

If you feel 'disheartened' about all this discussion, I feel very sorry, but, your brave. Please spare a thought for the rest of us who have to be labeled and branded with a guilt trip. Regarding jews that have tattoos, well, why didn't the war machine exterminate them sooner?
Here is a video discussing the facts regarding camps. There were purportedly 22 camps at the end of the war, yet only 13 were considered ' death camps' Then it was seen that only 6 of these had gas chambers, then it was revised that only 3 of them had working chambers. Examinations of these 3 chambers reveal them to be flawed, and hopelessly useless as efficient mechanisms for carrying out the act. Also, examination of the chambers reveals no cyanide at all, let alone massive quantities. Also, a lot of areas where it was stated that bodies were buried were never examined, and many years later, tests have been done and found that not only was there no bodies or residue, there was only virgin undisturbed soil layers!
Here is a very long documentary about an analysis.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9174186302325317179#docid=-1183568676926459928

Regarding the 6 million, it is estimated it would take 68 years to file 6 million people through those three chambers.
So, we have to consider statistics:
World census figures state that in 1939 there were 15,000,000 million jews in the world, and 500,000 in europe. In 1949 world census figures state 15,500,000 jews in the world. Not 6 million less. We are not making these figures up.
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ERl5mtQd8

Also, here are the red cross figures, with links on following page: http://truth-vision.blogspot.com/2010/09/six-million-jews-did-not-die-only.html
A great many historians quickly revised figures down, and down again, but, were are all lead to believe 6 million, no more, no less.

In my opinion, the majority of deaths were from malnutrition and disease. Why were they delousing people yet to be exterminated? Never happened.
A few were murdered (to create fear, and majority were diaspora jews, not full blooded.) Then once people were rounded up and told they would be killed, well their time in camp would have been filled with dread and horror. Many were starving and starved, disease was also prevalent through the war, but these victims also include non jews.. However, the issue was not killing 6 million people, but in creating the belief that it happened. Footage was only taken after the war, when some time was available to prepare camps to look worse. Bodies were piled up, photos doctored. And whats more these camps were in poland ands eastern europe, where US soldiers did not go. One therefore assumes that having seen footage of starving people in one video, assumes that the same happened in the other 21 camps. Yet even the official holocaust investigators openly contradict and revised themselves for years after. So, the footage is indeed so horrific, that no one wants to watch more or examine closer, we just believe what the narrator has to say. And rightly so. However, only footage was procured from camps that were made to be horrific. Not a lot of footage is widely shown of the jews in camps that had libraries, swimming pools, (like in auschwitz), and a jazz band even. Camps with clean clothes and hot showers. These jews were obviously being protected from greater things. And are those jews going to say such things? No. They keep their mouth shut, or perpetuate the myth of it all. Since jews are 'foretold' to be ruling the world from Israel, why would they turn their backs on the progress they have made, in the advance of procuring Israel. Those little old ladies can be the most devious, in my opinion.
Much evidence was not commited at the Nuremburg trials, as anything admissible had to be read into the record. Many submission were made, but do not count as evidence. Yet this material is to weigh heavily in the minds of the public. It is catagorically stated that 300 SS officers were executed after, their evidence may have proven detrimental to the zionist agenda, but at this point most people jump for joy and think of that as only fair. But consider it. They wish evidence and information to be destroyed, even if in human form, and rose coloured glasses to be adorned, for want of a better word. Many testamonys from the trials were considered on heresay, which is actually inadmisable in court. If one wished to watch that lenghty 4 hour documentary above, it shows early on that an examination of discussion of the avalon online files {the 'avalon files' are not this site- that is a coincidence. The online nuremberg evidence is also on a site called avalon} pertaining to the nurmberg trials show barely 20 minutes of evidence relating to the actual camps, and witnessed murders. Unbelievable, given that there was 217 days of trials. One witness even wished to submit a map of the camp, but was declined by the presiding judge that 'it would not be necessary', as though the 'evidence was so completely overwhelming, that any real evidence would not be needed to persuade anyone any further than they had already had their minds made up'. It certainly wasn't a trial for truth or justice, more a show of sympathy, and an opportunity for survivors to give testimony and reprive to their feelings. A great many ss men were interrogated before the trials, and many were jailed before they had a chance to go to court. We cannot assume wholesale that every man in the german army was a blood thirsty demon with nothing better to do than commit atrocitys. The propaganda in europe before ww2 cannot be considered to be the sentiments of each and every person there.

So, we now have england take palestine from turkey in WW1, and hand it over to Israel in WW2, like it was theres to give anyway.. And now the plan is to pit jew against arab and destroy the whole lot, and rise from the ashes with the final solution...As writ in 1890's.

Some jews haven't done to badly out of the whole deal, especially since red cross released documents stating that all known deaths amounted to approximatly 271,301. And, since they have done so well commiting extortion against big companys, governments and banks around the world to the tune of billions of dollars, they are not going to stop anytime soon, even though the real holocaust is being commited against arabs as we speak. But this is the work of zionist jews manipulting 'ordinary' jews.
No one mentions 1 million dying in Cologne in one night,. or 60,000,000 russians...
In the final analysis, goya (non jews) are considered sub human, and are supposedly deserving of any treatment at the hands of the 'jews' to the end of their own goals and wishes. So, as this is common knowledge, though not widely spoken of, it is normal for a 'jew' to lie or conceal the truth in anyway they see fit. Especially given that they got the stolen land they believe they deserve, and will do any atrocity to maintain the guilt trip. Of course, we are not talking about you in particular. It is impossible to label a group wholesale. Yet, and any all are capable, and the underlying beliefs remain.
How would one feel about the italians if they condemned criticism of the mafia? Would we label them all guilty and put them in one basket? It is quite obvious that the whole sale brandishing and blanketing of anyone who criticises, debates or discusses jews to be antisemitic as being an obvious cover, as interference, and as usage of hate themselves. They are supposedly above reproach, and that is their ruse. The wholesale guilt trip of the purported holocaust is there to make jews untouchable, for all the terrible things they have been through. As if to say, how would they ever be guilty of something so bad if it had happened to them.
Never give a whip to someone who has been whipped.

Judge them by their fruits.

My heart goes out to all those that suffered at the hands of the evil perpetrators. But even more so to the jews that have been manipulated, and even much more so to the arabs, who have a strict belief in non- violence.

The reason why there is such relevance to the holocaust in europe as opposed to africa or eastern eupope, is because it IS the west. Thats all. East or west, makes no difference. And people still have to live there. yet they are made to be prisoners of the 'newspeak' terms antisemitic and holocaust denial.

Donahue show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRrP7AevKi4

The devil is in the detail, and the details matter. So let us be free to discuss, not assume wholesale what we have been fed on tv. Thank you.

Noam Chomsky: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bb7_1202386296
Menuhin:
MENUHIN Moshe - 1965
"The last thing on earth that interested the Zionist leaders was humanitarian work, saving victims and refugees. [The Decadence at Judaism in our Time, Exposition Press, New York, 1965]

"It is extraordinary how nothing ever dies completely. Even the evil which prevailed yesterday in Nazi Germany and which is gaining ground in that country [Israel] today."
And so on..
Not to mention the endless quotes from rabbis and zionist calling for the destruction of non jews, the ruling of the world from jerusalem, and the fact that the majority of people in power are zionist jews, like in the federal reserve etc..
These guys print the money, make the money. Other jews are only to happy to help out by proxy, and not question. If things are going well, they even use the jews themselves.
So, no hatred has been spoken of here, no condemnation, just mere observation and some facts, thanks.

[Lord Sidious]

HI, its the zionist jews that have perpetrated the myth. Not all jews. That they hate the karaite jews is common knowledge. Most jews read the torah/old testament, however even it has its variations. There are babylonian talmud readers and jerusalem talmud readers, and then there are zionist cabalah readers, mostly filled with hate about non jews.
Watch this talmud video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quTXwTjgfc0&feature=related

Of there was any hate on the world its from them, not the supposed 'anti semitic' people. It seems that even discussing the subject is auto labeling one as 'being filled with hate and revulsion for all and every jew'. Its actually a cover they use by throwing interference and making you so afraid that you drop subject there and then. Does discussing the subject make one automatically 'anti semitic' (not even anti jewish, let alone simply unjewish..), and therefore anti-einstein, anti-barbara streisand, anti-woody allen, anti lord yehudi menuhin, anti-itzkah perlman, anti daniel barenboihm...ridiculous isn't it. Yes, there are many fine jews in the world.

Listen to Michael Hoffman discuss the subject of the label 'anti semetic'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4XreA-oC4
Believe me, the zionist jews have manipulated other jews, and you right where they want you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHKGOcUyQ-M

If you feel 'disheartened' about all this discussion, I feel very sorry, but, your brave. Please spare a thought for the rest of us who have to be labeled and branded with a guilt trip. Regarding jews that have tattoos, well, why didn't the war machine exterminate them sooner?
Here is a video discussing the facts regarding camps. There were purportedly 22 camps at the end of the war, yet only 13 were considered ' death camps' Then it was seen that only 6 of these had gas chambers, then it was revised that only 3 of them had working chambers. Examinations of these 3 chambers reveal them to be flawed, and hopelessly useless as efficient mechanisms for carrying out the act. Also, examination of the chambers reveals no cyanide at all, let alone massive quantities. Also, a lot of areas where it was stated that bodies were buried were never quired, and many years later, tests have been done and found that not only was there no bodies or residue, there was only virgin undisturbed soil layers!
Here is a very long documentary about an analysis.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9174186302325317179#docid=-1183568676926459928

Regarding the 6 million, it is estimated it would take 68 years to file 6 million people through those three chambers.
So, we have to consider statistics:
World census figures state that in 1939 there were 15,000,000 million jews in the world, and 500,000 in europe. In 1949 world census figures state 15,500,000 jews in the world. Not 6 million less. We are not making these figures up.
Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ERl5mtQd8

Also, here are the red cross figures, with links on following page: http://truth-vision.blogspot.com/2010/09/six-million-jews-did-not-die-only.html
A great many historians quickly revised figures down, and down again, but, were are all lead to believe 6 million, no more, no less.

In my opinion, the majority of deaths were from malnutrition and disease. Why were they delousing people yet to be exterminated? Never happened.
A few were murdered (to create fear, and majority were diaspora jews, not full blooded.) Then once people were rounded and told they would be killed, well their time in camp would have been filled with dread and horror. Many were starving and starved, disease was also prevalent through the war. However, the issue was not killing 6 million people, but, creating the belief that it happened. Footage was only taken after the war, when some time was available to prepare camps to look worse. Bodies were piled up, photos doctored. And whats more these camps were in poland ands eastern europe, where US soldiers did not go. One therefore assumes that having seen footage of starving people in one video, assumes that the same happened in the other 21 camps. Yet even the official holocaust investigators openly contradict and revised themselves for years after. So, the footage is indeed so horrific, that no one wants to watch more to examine, we just believe what the narrator has to say. And rightly so. However, only footage was procured from camps that were made to be horrific. Not a lot of footage is widely shown of the jews in camps that had libraries, swimming pools, (like in auschwitz), and a swing band even. These jews were obviously being protected from greater things..
Much evidence was not commited at the Nuremburg trials, as anything admissible had to be read into the record. Many submission were made, but do not count as evidence. Yet this material is to weigh heavily in the minds of the public. It is catagorically stated that 300 SS officers were killed after, their evidence may have proven detrimental to the zionist agenda. Consider. They wish evidence to be destroyed, and rose coloured glasses to be adorned, for want of a better word. Many testamonys from the trials were considered on heresay, which is actually inadmisable in court. If one wished to watch that lenghty 4 hour documentary above, it shows early on that an examination of discussion of the avalon online files pertaining to the nurmberg trials show barely 20 minutes of evidence relating to the actual camps, and witnessed murders. Unbelievable, given that there was 217 days of trials. One witness even wished to submit a map of the camp, but was declined by the presiding judge that 'it would not be necessary', as though the 'evidence was so completely overwhelming, that any real evidence would not be needed to persuade anyone any further than they had already had their minds made up'. It certainly wasn't a trial for truth or justice, more a show of sympathy, and an opportunity for survivors to give testimony and reprive to their feelings. A great many ss men were interrogated before the trials, and many were jailed before they had a chance to go to court. We cannot assume wholesale that every man in the german army was a blood thirsty demon with nothing better to do than commit atrocitys. The propaganda in europe before ww2 cannot be considered to be the sentiments of each and every person there.

So, we now have england take palestine from turkey in WW1, and hand it over to Israel in WW2, like it was theres to give anyway.. And now the plan is to pit jew against arab and destroy the whole lot, and rise from the ashes with the final solution...As writ in 1890's.

Some jews haven't done to badly out of the whole deal, especially since red cross released documents stating that all known deaths amounted to approximatly 271,301. And, since they have done so well commiting extortion against big companys, governments and banks around the world to the tune of billions of dollars, they are not going to stop anytime soon, even though the real holocaust is being commited against arabs as we speak. But this is the work of zionist jews manipulting 'ordinary' jews.
No one mentions 1 million dying in Cologne in one night,. or 60,000,000 russians...
In the final analysis, goya (non jews) are considered sub human, and are supposedly deserving of any treatment at the hands of the 'jews' to the end of their own goals and wishes. So, as this is common knowledge, though not widely spoken of, it is normal for a 'jew' to lie or conceal the truth in anyway they see fit. Especially given that they got the stolen land they believe they deserve, and will do any atrocity to maintain the guilt trip. Of course, we are not talking about you in particular. It is impossible to label a group wholesale. Yet, and any all are capable, and the underlying beliefs remain.
How would one feel about the italians if they condemned criticism of the mafia? Would we label them all guilty and put them in one basket? It is quite obvious that the whole sale brandishing and blanketing of anyone who criticises, debates or discusses jews to be antisemitic as being an obvious cover, as interference, and as usage of hate themselves. They are supposedly above reproach, and that is their ruse. The wholesale guilt trip of the purported holocaust is there to make jews untouchable, for all the terrible things they have been through. As if to say, how would they ever be guilty of something so bad if it had happened to them.
Never give a whip to someone who has been whipped.

Judge them by their fruits.

My heart goes out to all those that suffered at the hands of the evil perpetrators. But even more so to the jews that have been manipulated, and even much more so to the arabs, who have a strict belief in non- violence.

The reason why there is such relevance to the holocaust in europe as opposed to africa or eastern eupope, is because it IS the west. Thats all. East or west, makes no difference. And people still have to live there. yet they are made to be prisoners of the 'newspeak' terms antisemitic and holocaust denial.

Donahue show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRrP7AevKi4

The devil is in the detail, and the details matter. So let us be free to discuss, not assume wholesale what we have been fed on tv. Thank you.

Noam Chomsky:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bb7_1202386296
Menuhin:
MENUHIN Moshe - 1965
"The last thing on earth that interested the Zionist leaders was humanitarian work, saving victims and refugees. [The Decadence at Judaism in our Time, Exposition Press, New York, 1965]

"It is extraordinary how nothing ever dies completely. Even the evil which prevailed yesterday in Nazi Germany and which is gaining ground in that country [Israel] today."
And so on..
Not to mention the endless quotes from rabbis and zionist calling for the destruction of non jews, the ruling of the world from jerusalem, and the fact that the majority of people in power are zionist jews, like in the federal reserve etc..
These guys print the money, make the money. Other jews are only to happy to help out by proxy, and not question. If things are going well, they even use the jews themselves.
So, no hatred has been spoken of here, no condemnation, just mere observation and some facts, thanks.

Thanks for that.
Not many people have heard of the karaite jews.

[aikisaw]

Meditatio
If you feel 'disheartened' about all this discussion, I feel very sorry, but, your brave. Please spare a thought for the rest of us who have to be labeled and branded with a guilt trip. Regarding jews that have tattoos, well, why didn't the war machine exterminate them sooner?
Here is a video discussing the facts regarding camps. There were purportedly 22 camps at the end of the war, yet only 13 were considered ' death camps' Then it was seen that only 6 of these had gas chambers, then it was revised that only 3 of them had working chambers. Examinations of these 3 chambers reveal them to be flawed, and hopelessly useless as efficient mechanisms for carrying out the act. Also, examination of the chambers reveals no cyanide at all, let alone massive quantities. Also, a lot of areas where it was stated that bodies were buried were never quired, and many years later, tests have been done and found that not only was there no bodies or residue, there was only virgin undisturbed soil layers!
Here is a very long documentary about an analysis.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...68676926459928


I am 2 hours into this video. The guy is thorough. I like that he sources all information and uses maps to explain his positions.

[Gustav]

Meditatio
If you feel 'disheartened' about all this discussion, I feel very sorry, but, your brave. Please spare a thought for the rest of us who have to be labeled and branded with a guilt trip. Regarding jews that have tattoos, well, why didn't the war machine exterminate them sooner?
Here is a video discussing the facts regarding camps. There were purportedly 22 camps at the end of the war, yet only 13 were considered ' death camps' Then it was seen that only 6 of these had gas chambers, then it was revised that only 3 of them had working chambers. Examinations of these 3 chambers reveal them to be flawed, and hopelessly useless as efficient mechanisms for carrying out the act. Also, examination of the chambers reveals no cyanide at all, let alone massive quantities. Also, a lot of areas where it was stated that bodies were buried were never quired, and many years later, tests have been done and found that not only was there no bodies or residue, there was only virgin undisturbed soil layers!
Here is a very long documentary about an analysis.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...68676926459928


I am 2 hours into this video. The guy is thorough. I like that he sources all information and uses maps to explain his positions.

pff thorough indeed, but therefore very refreshing.

[karelia]

Just came across a site with loads and loads of material. Scroll down a bit to get to the English things. Haven't checked it out yet in detail, but figured it would go faster if it's more than just me looking through the stuff.

http://nazi.org.uk/

[Gustav]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1183568676926459928#

The link to the 4h15m documentary did not seem to work anymore. Above is the new one.

Going into the last hour now.


------------------------------- ADDED -------------------------------

A few questions come to mind:
1. I accepting this all as a true account. Than, there must me numerous suicides, car accidents, plain crashes, etc to cover up that people were trying to lift the curtain of the holocaust, right after the war and in the decade after that. The toplevel nazi's are well known to have massively 'committed suicide', but lower levels, I don't know.

Does any of you have knowledge of this?

2. If the containers and storage facilities with clothing, the hair of the (men and) women, the children's clothes were by deduction not in coherence with nazi efficiency and planning and therefore should not likely be there, because the germans would have gotten rid of them. How did they come there? Than it must have been a plant. If it has been a plant, the russians are in on it, which is also obvious through the manner in which they have investigated and behaved at the nuremberg trials. By following that logic it can than be said there could have been/must have been or was a pre-arranged plan to morally (and spiritually) bind the german people in chains of guilt. So following that line:

Qui bono? (who benefits?)

Many thanks again for this very very detailed analysis. BTW I also watched the david cole tape when he visits auschwitz. Also very interesting details. That even the official guys admit they know things are not true is staggering. By recollection from another video I have, the gas chamber discussed in the david cole tape is next to the mess hall of the SS-Officers.. Later the mess-hall was moved or it's function removed from the maps. Not sure which one it is. I'll try to look it up.

-------------- ADDED 2 ---------------------

3. About those who were in the camps. If the survivors on the stands of the trials and repeated in the books than I suppose there must also be numerous people who can verify that condition were harsh, not pleasant etc, but that also it not as the story is portrayed today.

Anyone know of such stories?

[karelia]

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-germany.html Interesting. Scroll down to find the 25 points of the NSDAP, which were declared unalterable.

[Lord Sidious]

------------------------------- ADDED -------------------------------

A few questions come to mind:
1. I accepting this all as a true account. Than, there must me numerous suicides, car accidents, plain crashes, etc to cover up that people were trying to lift the curtain of the holocaust, right after the war and in the decade after that. The toplevel nazi's are well known to have massively 'committed suicide', but lower levels, I don't know.

Does any of you have knowledge of this?

Have a look at how many men who knew the truth were executed after the Reich lost the round. Also, many more starved to death in allied detention and the gulags.
Others were silenced with threats to their families, Rudolf Hoess for example, google him.


2. If the containers and storage facilities with clothing, the hair of the (men and) women, the children's clothes were by deduction not in coherence with nazi efficiency and planning and therefore should not likely be there, because the germans would have gotten rid of them. How did they come there? Than it must have been a plant. If it has been a plant, the russians are in on it, which is also obvious through the manner in which they have investigated and behaved at the nuremberg trials. By following that logic it can than be said there could have been/must have been or was a pre-arranged plan to morally (and spiritually) bind the german people in chains of guilt. So following that line:

The items are genuine, they are not a plant. The thing is, a lot of ''evidence'' of the alleged holocaust is genuine, but it's context is not.
In this case, the items you speak of are no different than a prison. Think of this, when you go to jail, do they not take your valuables, your clothes, give you a uniform, cut your hair (not all) and store it until you come out?
The fact that it was all stored should show you that the SS was expecting to release them at some time in the future.


Qui bono? (who benefits?)

As David Irving and others call them, the traditional enemy. I would define this as the ''elite'' jews and their allies.
The sad part is that to them, the ''little'' jew is worth nothing to them as they are not bloodline. In fact, they are expendable and to be used in the run up to achieving their goals.


Many thanks again for this very very detailed analysis. BTW I also watched the david cole tape when he visits auschwitz. Also very interesting details. That even the official guys admit they know things are not true is staggering. By recollection from another video I have, the gas chamber discussed in the david cole tape is next to the mess hall of the SS-Officers.. Later the mess-hall was moved or it's function removed from the maps. Not sure which one it is. I'll try to look it up.

It is across the road from the SS hospital and shares a common drainwork.
-------------- ADDED 2 ---------------------


3. About those who were in the camps. If the survivors on the stands of the trials and repeated in the books than I suppose there must also be numerous people who can verify that condition were harsh, not pleasant etc, but that also it not as the story is portrayed today.

Anyone know of such stories?

Yes, the red cross used to visit the camps. Not sure on the regularity, but they did visit.
Funny enough, the records have been ''donated'' to the israelis in the past few years.
Google concentration camp money.


http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-germany.html Interesting. Scroll down to find the 25 points of the NSDAP, which were declared unalterable.

The 25 points were indeed immutable.

11. Abolition of incomes unearned by work. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST.

The world Thrall is old Norse, it means slave.
What would you extrapolate from this point alone?

[K626]

[QUOTE=Gustav;171305]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1183568676926459928#

The link to the 4h15m documentary did not seem to work anymore. Above is the new one.

Going into the last hour now.


Good doc that. Saw it a few years ago. Well worth a watch.

K

[Lord Sidious]

[QUOTE=Gustav;171305]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1183568676926459928#

The link to the 4h15m documentary did not seem to work anymore. Above is the new one.

Going into the last hour now.


Good doc that. Saw it a few years ago. Well worth a watch.

K

You can download it in sections if you want.
Just google one third of the holocaust.

[Gustav]

Interesting peace of work this 25 point document. This program is better than what we were presented with in our last election ...:oWhat I derive from it is a society of together and insofar the ideal of a more perfect society. It reminded me of the grand periods of time that are discussed in 'the Pyramid code'. There is a maternalistic sense about these 25 rules/ideas. And further it demonstrates, in my opinion, a great knowledge of the innerworkings of society. The only question I have is this:
If they were aware of 'the traditional enemy', why than put all jews together rather than mentioning them?

What I also can't find in this document, but perhaps that belongs more to policy than politics is the following. How on earth were they thinking they were going to maintain good relations with their neighbours if they already knew most of them were controlled by this 'traditional enemy'. And another question:

If my line of thinking is correct and the political nazi movement, at least, in the beginning had a deeper insight in the innerworkings of society and if all/some of them were 'in the know'. Than why did this coming together of minds happen in Germany? I fear my rather extensive knowledge on deep mainstream history is not going to help me on this one... ;)

Also, this would shed a different light on two stories I learnt here. If they were to make Germany clean of non-germans, not by killing, but by deportation etc, than the camps could indeed, at least partially have been a transition camp especially for jews. But than only to get them out of germany in /sarcasm on/ a not so gentle manner /sarcasm off/. Because that than fits in with the negotiations that were undertaken by high ranking nazi's with jews/zionists in hungary etc, in which they proposed a trade. Sidious, correct me if i'm wrong on the country, because if I remember well, you introduced that story on this forum.

I must say I am greatly enjoying the roads we are taking. It has been a great drive up till now and I see no reason that would change. I would like to thank you all for your contributions, which I deem to be of much greater value than my own. So, thank you!

[Lord Sidious]

Gustav, there is something about the Germans and their land.
I don't know what it is yet, but I know that I will find out eventually.
They were the only nation that had the mentality to pull together in the way that they did.
I am not sure what you mean about the jews.
I think that the NSDAP thought that once they had enough strength, they would be able to deal with their neighbours from a postition of strength, the old peace through superiour firepower deal, plus remember they were deeply into occult and spiritual concepts.
And yes, I did tell you about the Haavara and the negotiations to get the jews out of Europe.
We have a long way to go yet, though Gustav.

[karelia]

Interesting peace of work this 25 point document. This program is better than what we were presented with in our last election ...:oWhat I derive from it is a society of together and insofar the ideal of a more perfect society. It reminded me of the grand periods of time that are discussed in 'the Pyramid code'. There is a maternalistic sense about these 25 rules/ideas. And further it demonstrates, in my opinion, a great knowledge of the innerworkings of society.

My first thought when I read them was that they sound a lot more nourishing than anything I've ever seen where politics are concerned.


<snip>
What I also can't find in this document, but perhaps that belongs more to policy than politics is the following. How on earth were they thinking they were going to maintain good relations with their neighbours if they already knew most of them were controlled by this 'traditional enemy'.

I think a high level of idealism is the cause here.


And another question:
If my line of thinking is correct and the political nazi movement, at least, in the beginning had a deeper insight in the innerworkings of society and if all/some of them were 'in the know'. Than why did this coming together of minds happen in Germany? I fear my rather extensive knowledge on deep mainstream history is not going to help me on this one... ;)

I think if you look further back in Germany's history, you may find an answer. Even before WWI, the Germans weren't happy with the way their country was going. The Austrian, or at least many of them, saw themselves as Germans. When Hitler stayed in Vienna, he observed how there was a sudden influx of different races including orthodox jews and he observed how it changed the city itself, and it concerned him a great deal. Then of course, as per the law of resonance, he found like-minded people and took it from there.


Also, this would shed a different light on two stories I learnt here. If they were to make Germany clean of non-germans, not by killing, but by deportation etc, than the camps could indeed, at least partially have been a transition camp especially for jews. But than only to get them out of germany in /sarcasm on/ a not so gentle manner /sarcasm off/. Because that than fits in with the negotiations that were undertaken by high ranking nazi's with jews/zionists in hungary etc, in which they proposed a trade. Sidious, correct me if i'm wrong on the country, because if I remember well, you introduced that story on this forum.

That's my conclusion as well. Also, let's not forget that it was war, and during a war, things aren't gentle. Furthermore, I can well imagine that a few misguided sods within the SS did show their hatred by treating the jews very rough.


I must say I am greatly enjoying the roads we are taking. It has been a great drive up till now and I see no reason that would change. I would like to thank you all for your contributions, which I deem to be of much greater value than my own. So, thank you!

It's been a great learning curve so far, and I do hope we can unearth more to find the entire truth!

Here is another thought with regard to the national socialists' understanding of inner workings: I think one big mistake they made is to blame it on the jews generally rather than a small group of jews, or just simply on the elitists who even by then had considerable control of quite a few countries. We have evidence that Hitler made exceptions with some jews, so he obviously didn't judge a person by their faith or race but rather by their character. And Irving tells us that the statistics show that a lot of jews were criminals indeed. Maybe they hoped that by simply showing that their way of going forward without outside controllers would have convinced other countries to get rid of the controllers and join in?

Their whole path of striving to find alternative energy etc clearly shows that they weren't, as chico would say, sociopaths. A sociopath is more likely to prefer destruction (explosion) over construction (implosion) because a sociopath wants to cause havoc in order to feed off it. There is some evidence that the Germans indeed built UFOs and there have been plenty of sightings of them since after the war, UFOs with the swastika. So, would it really be so far fetched to open up to the possibility that some of the 'disappeared' Germans managed to move all their important equipment and started a base in Antarctica (Neuschwabenland), and not only that, but continued with their research, possibly helped by off-world beings, and possibly waiting for the right moment to interfere to get rid of the world's controllers for once and for all?

[aikisaw]

Lord Sidious

The 25 points were indeed immutable.

11. Abolition of incomes unearned by work. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST.

The world Thrall is old Norse, it means slave.
What would you extrapolate from this point alone?

They were talking about the slavery of interest. The usury/interest earned on borrowed money. This put Germany at odds with the Zionist bankers of the time. When he started printing his own money in 1933 the bankers and the countries they owned set out to make an example of him.

Do you think the other countries, especially USA,UK, knew they would not be able to compete with Germany economically in about ten years? If Germany succeeded in breaking free from the banks, reinvest the usury, and had economic freedom, the sky would be the limit.

If the USA,and the UK did not know the Zionists did.

In what I have read it is generally the reason that total war was declared on Germany.

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sidious

The 25 points were indeed immutable.

11. Abolition of incomes unearned by work. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST.

The world Thrall is old Norse, it means slave.
What would you extrapolate from this point alone?

They were talking about the slavery of interest. The usury/interest earned on borrowed money. This put Germany at odds with the Zionist bankers of the time. When he started printing his own money in 1933 the bankers and the countries they owned set out to make an example of him.

Do you think the other countries, especially USA,UK, knew they would not be able to compete with Germany economically in about ten years? If Germany succeeded in breaking free from the banks, reinvest the usury, and had economic freedom, the sky would be the limit.

If the USA,and the UK did not know the Zionists did.

In what I have read it is generally the reason that total war was declared on Germany.

It is one reason, but not the main one in my opinion.
As I said, there is something about the Germans and Germany.

[aikisaw]

Lord Sidious

The 25 points were indeed immutable.

11. Abolition of incomes unearned by work. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST.

The world Thrall is old Norse, it means slave.
What would you extrapolate from this point alone?

They were talking about the slavery of interest. The usury/interest earned on borrowed money. This put Germany at odds with the Zionist bankers of the time. When he started printing his own money in 1933 the bankers and the countries they owned set out to make an example of him.

Do you think the other countries, especially USA,UK, knew they would not be able to compete with Germany economically in about ten years? If Germany succeeded in breaking free from the banks, reinvest the usury, and had economic freedom, the sky would be the limit.

If the USA,and the UK did not know the Zionists did.

In what I have read it is generally the reason that total war was declared on Germany.

It is one reason, but not the main one in my opinion.
As I said, there is something about the Germans and Germany.

I agree with you. They were taken out with such totality that it seems that it was more than banking. It seems like an old world hate played out in the 1930's and 40's that is still going today.

[karelia]

After messaging with aikisaw, he presented an idea that I thought worthy of suggesting here:

Given the sheer amount of material to wade through, could we all, perhaps, post a rating with what we see/read/hear/absorb?

For example, I would write something like this:

Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1183568676926459928# (One Third of the Holocaust)

I give this a 10. The narrator has very obviously done his homework most thoroughly and throughout keeps his mind very alert to find even the tiny things that don't fit in the picture, and so we not only learn from his dissecting eye witness accounts how things don't add up but we are pointed out how it's impossible to have a mass grave the size of a hen house that has 80,000 bodies buried. The presentation itself is quite a delight for someone who appreciates subtle sarcasm, and everything is presented without appealing to one's emotion, very unlike the rulers of the world act.

The reason I really like this idea is because there is a lot of material to wade through, and some of it is definitely heavily coloured by propaganda, but it's time-wasting to separate the one from the other. So, if you've seen something interesting (or not so interesting), if you post here, we may reach the entire truth sooner rather than later. What do you think?

[Gustav]

They were talking about the slavery of interest. The usury/interest earned on borrowed money. This put Germany at odds with the Zionist bankers of the time. When he started printing his own money in 1933 the bankers and the countries they owned set out to make an example of him.

Do you think the other countries, especially USA,UK, knew they would not be able to compete with Germany economically in about ten years? If Germany succeeded in breaking free from the banks, reinvest the usury, and had economic freedom, the sky would be the limit.

That is why Germany was out of the 1929 crash around 34/36 whereas the US had to go to war to come out of the depression. I'm currently looking up the guy who elaborated on this, but it'll take some time because I have to listen to several talks ranging from 30 min to 1.5 hrs.. :). Still it is good to hear that material again.

------------------------

Another question. Through one of the links I found that the red cross would have released documents that are stating much much lower numbers of people who have died in the camps than is said nowadays. I do not know the accuracy or the level of truth in these documents. Can someone verify this? http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2007/06/official-records-from-international-red.html

------------- ADDED --------------------

About Germany. If there is to be something special, and the following is all just my feeling, and considering the given that this could be part of a struggle/fight that has been going on for many centuries. Would it than not be a good point to look at the Austrian Empire? Germany did not really exist before bismarck. Before that it was a loose state, princely realms, free cities etc. Before that there was the conflict with Napoleon and his people. But before that there was the ancient Holy Roman Empire. The austrian and holy roman empire, as far as i know, basically ruled europe for the better part of a 1000 years. Either directly, by peace through power or by family relations.

But if there is one thing that will differ the german or germanic people from a lot of other people than it will be this. Namely, they were not conquered by the romans. Yes, the romans occupied parts of their territory, but they never assimilated them. This in contrast with the Franks. They were romanized. If now we assume that the vibration of a people is ultimately directing those people and that those at the top know best how to direct that vibration, that would mean that all those under roman occupation are assimilated into a 'roman vibration'. Not the case with most of the germanic people. In that respect it is interesting to note that germany was the only voluntary empire. Whereas the rest of Europe had already mostly succumbed to democracy etc. Power in germany was mostly to local 'royalty'. "Germany" is at that moment of unification the only country in Europe that is highly self-sufficient (also in so-called high culture). They had the highest rating of (public) libraries, universities, high schools, opera-buildings, museums, etc. This in contrast with france, where Paris was and is still the centre of the nation and the rest of the nation gets the spill-overs.

This story is becoming 'somewhat' long. The point that I would like to stress. If the holocaust is part of a moral subjugation of german or germanic people for the reason of conquest of incluence or power than I think a possible road to ponder upon could be that the spiritual independence combined with economic independence would eventually pose to great of threat. The reason than could be sought after in the lack of conquest by the romans, which caused a vibrational separation from the rest of the european people that for reasons unknown to me was manifesting itself in the 19th and 20th century. Hence also maybe the large number of occult and/or spiritual societies that were roaming Germany in that same period.
So, it could be interesting to look at ancient/pre-roman stories of great knowledge, spiritual awaking, etc in the germanic history that could indicate a point of tension with 'the traditional enemy'.
Or am I too far out in the woods? ;)

[Lord Sidious]

They were talking about the slavery of interest. The usury/interest earned on borrowed money. This put Germany at odds with the Zionist bankers of the time. When he started printing his own money in 1933 the bankers and the countries they owned set out to make an example of him.

Do you think the other countries, especially USA,UK, knew they would not be able to compete with Germany economically in about ten years? If Germany succeeded in breaking free from the banks, reinvest the usury, and had economic freedom, the sky would be the limit.

That is why Germany was out of the 1929 crash around 34/36 whereas the US had to go to war to come out of the depression. I'm currently looking up the guy who elaborated on this, but it'll take some time because I have to listen to several talks ranging from 30 min to 1.5 hrs.. :). Still it is good to hear that material again.

------------------------

Another question. Through one of the links I found that the red cross would have released documents that are stating much much lower numbers of people who have died in the camps than is said nowadays. I do not know the accuracy or the level of truth in these documents. Can someone verify this? http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2007/06/official-records-from-international-red.html

Those documents are genuine.

[aikisaw]

I watched The Occult History of the 3rd Reich part 1.


http://www.nazi.org.uk/SWFmediaplayer/player.swf?file=http://www.nazi.org.uk/video/The%20Occult%20History%20of%20the%20Third%20Reich% 201%20Adolf%20Hitler.flv

It was a television documentary made in England. I would give it a rating of 6. It showed a young a Hitler and spoke of the people and events that were influences in his life. It showed clips from his speeches with English sub-titles. The amount of people who showed up for these rallies was impressive, they all seemed in good spirits. Give Nazi's credit they spared no expense to put on a rally.

My view of history has changed since 9-11 and continues to do so since coming to this forum and this thread. With that, I noticed what was left out. Little mention of the occult, no mention of Hitler printing his own money, no mention of the Jews declaring war on Germany. It was worth watching but not great.



http://100777.com/images/judeadeclares800.jpg

[Lord Sidious]

There was more to it than just a boycott too.
They promised troops to whatever nation would declare war on Germany.
They ended up providing thousands of troops to the British in the desert war.

[aikisaw]

The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939

I happened upon this quote by accident ....if their are any accidents.

I then found this web site with a whole page of similar quotes.

Make sure you read the last one.....it got my attention.




http://always-myown.blogspot.com/2009/01/jews-declare-war-on-germany-1933.html



"Judea Declares War on Germany!" - Daily Express headline, March 24, 1933.

"Judea Declares War on Germany! Jews of all the World Unite! Boycott of German Goods! Mass Demonstrations!" - These were all headlines in the Daily Express on March 24, 1933.

"The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany. Fourteen million Jews stand together as one man, to declare war against Germany. The Jewish wholesaler will forsake his firm, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his commerce and the pauper his pitiful shed in order to join together in a holy war against Hitler's people." - Daily Express, March 24, 1933.

"Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here. It is not sufficient that you should buy no goods made in Germany. You must refuse to deal with any merchant or shopkeeper who sells any German-made goods or who patronises German ships or shipping.... we will undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends." - Samuel Undermeyer, in a Radio Broadcast on WABC, New York, August 6, 1933. Reported in the New York Times, August 7, 1933.

Joining with Samuel Untermeyer in calling for a war against Germany, Bernard Baruch, at the same time, was promoting preparations for war against Germany. "I emphasised that the defeat of Germany and Japan and their elimination from world trade would give Britain a tremendous opportunity to swell her foreign commerce in both volume and profit." - Baruch, The Public Years, by Bernard M. Baruch, p.347 (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1960).

Samuel Untermeyer was a Jewish leader and close friend of presidents Wilson and Roosevelt.
Bernard Baruch was a presidential adviser to Wilson, Roosevelt and Truman.

"This declaration called the war against Germany, which was now determined on, a 'holy war'. This war was to be carried out against Germany to its conclusion, to her destruction" (Diese Erklärung nannte den Krieg gegen Deutschland, der nun beschlossen sei, einen heiligen Krieg. Dieser Krieg müsse gegen Deutschland bis zu dessen Ende, bis zu dessen Vernichtung, geführt werden). - Dr. Franz J. Scheidl, Geschichte der Verfemung Deutschlands.

"War in Europe in 1934 was inevitable." - H. Morgenthau, Secretary of the U.S. Treasury, Hearst Press, September, 1933 (also quoted in "The Palestine Plot" by B. Jenson, p. 11 (printed by John McKinley, 11-15 King Street, Perth, Scotland)).

"For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." - Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Armée Allemande" by Jacques Benoist-Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).

"Hitler will have no war (does not want war), but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon." - Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934 (also quoted in his book "The New Holy Alliance").

"We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany." - David A. Brown, National Chairman, United Jewish Campaign, 1934 (quoted in "I Testify Against The Jews" by Robert Edward Edmondson, page 188 and "The Jewish War of Survival" by Arnold Leese, page 52).

"We want to bring about a deep hatred for the Germans, for German soldiers, sailors, and airmen. We must hate until we win." - Lord Beaverbrook, quoted in Niemals! by Heinrich Goitsch.

"There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it." - Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935.

"Before the end of the year, an economic bloc of England, Russia, France and the U.S.A will be formed to bring the German and Italian economic systems to their knees." - Paul Dreyfus, "La Vie de Tanger" May 15, 1938.

On the 3rd of June, 1938, the American Hebrew boasted that they had Jews in the foremost positions of influence in Britain, Russia and France, and that these "three sons of Israel will be sending the Nazi dictator to hell." - Joseph Trimble, the American Hebrew.

"Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war without mercy against her. One may be sure of this: We will lead that war!" - Bernard Lecache, the president of the "International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism," in its newspaper "Droit de Vivre" (Right to Life), 9 November, 1938.

"The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishing Jewish hegemony throughout the world." - Brigadier General George Van Horn Mosely, The New York Tribune, March 29, 1939.

"I wish to confirm in the most explicit manner, the declaration which I and my colleagues made during the last months, and especially in the last week: that the Jews "stand by Great Britain and will fight on the side of the democracies." Our urgent desire is to give effect to these declarations. We wish to do so in a way entirely consonant with the general scheme of British action, and therefore would place ourselves, in matters big and small, under the co-ordinating direction of His Majesty's Government. The Jewish Agency is ready to enter into immediate arrangements for utilizing Jewish manpower, technical ability, resources, etc." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, the London Times, September 5, 1939, and the London Jewish Chronicle, September 8, 1939.

"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." - Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939.

"Stop talking about peace conditions! Break Germany in pieces!" - The Daily Herald, No.7426, 9 December, 1939.

"The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939, quoted in "Reichstagsbrand, Aufklärung einer historischen Legende," by U. Backes, K.H. Janßen, E. Jesse, H. Köhler, H. Mommsen, E Tobias.

"Even if we Jews are not physically at your side in the trenches, we are morally with you. This war is our war and you fight it with us." - Schalom Asch, Les Nouvelles Litterairres, February 10, 1940.

"In losing Germany, Jewry lost a territory from which it exerted power. Therefore it was determined to re-conquer it." - Louis Marschalko, "The World Conquerors : The Real War Criminals."

"The World Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years." - Rabbi M. Perlzweig (head of the British Section of the World Jewish Congress), Toronto Evening Telegram, February 26, 1940.

"The Second World War is being fought for the defense of the fundamentals of Judaism." - Rabbi Felix Mendlesohn, Chicago Sentinel, October 8, 1942.

"We are not denying and are not afraid to confess that this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry... Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry. We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based, we are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance. And we are the Trojan horses in the enemy's fortress. Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, in a Speech on December 3, 1942, in New York.

"Played golf with Joe Kennedy (U.S. Ambassador to Britain). He says that Chamberlain stated that America and world Jewry forced England into World War II." - James Forrestal, Secretary of the Navy (later Secretary of Defense), Diary, December 27, 1945 entry.

"It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish origin or working for Jewish interests. Nor had I ever wished that after the appalling first World War, there would ever be a second against either England or America." - Adolf Hitler, April, 1945.

The joke doing the rounds of the British Union of Fascists at this time, was that the Jewish national anthem was, 'Onward Christian Soldiers.'

[Lord Sidious]

So, together we are moving forward, finding things on the net that show us things aren't necessarily the way we thought they were.
Good work nuggets.

[karelia]

You know what I find hardest to swallow in this whole uncovering the truth? That everything I've read or seen or heard about those demonized by the winners shows a lot more nourishing attitude than the winners have ever exercised in the entire history. Yes, I've known for a long time that the current winners use coercion, bullying techniques, are ready to kill for sheer convenience, thrive on causing misery, but I wasn't quite comprehending of just the extent. The mind boggles.

[Gustav]

The same tactics always used by the winners in western history. The Catholic Church with regard to (amongst others) the Cathars, democracies against nomadic people worldwide, higher technology civilizations depicting natural societies as savage and backward. It is the main recurring theme in history as far as i'm concerned. Only for that reason alone everything that is not in a historybook is of much more interest than any historybook for it truly is, as is confirmed in this thread: History is written by the victors. There is a lot of love and nourishment in those who lost and have disappeared from the mainstream. To me, to at least put the nazi's more and more in that direction is my biggest revelation yet.

I would like to ask some advice. I am searching the internet. But I never seem to find new 'revolutionary' info. Any methods that you, the reader, use and want to share?

[karelia]

The same tactics always used by the winners in western history. The Catholic Church with regard to (amongst others) the Cathars, democracies against nomadic people worldwide, higher technology civilizations depicting natural societies as savage and backward. It is the main recurring theme in history as far as i'm concerned. Only for that reason alone everything that is not in a historybook is of much more interest than any historybook for it truly is, as is confirmed in this thread: History is written by the victors. There is a lot of love and nourishment in those who lost and have disappeared from the mainstream. To me, to at least put the nazi's more and more in that direction is my biggest revelation yet.

I wonder if this is what's meant by the phrase, 'and history will repeat itself yet again.'


I would like to ask some advice. I am searching the internet. But I never seem to find new 'revolutionary' info. Any methods that you, the reader, use and want to share?

I do a lot of searching, and I hear you on never seeming to find 'revolutionary' info. I often get frustrated when I know the info has to be out there and I can't find it... Experience has taught me the following: 1. use scroogle.org instead of google. Scroogle uses the google search engine, but for some reason, it seems to bring up more interesting links that google never comes up with. I have no idea why that is, but I've noticed it several times. 2. Use different keywords when you find yourself stuck or lacking progress. I find this important because, to name one example, some sites refuse to refer to the third reich as 'nazis.' That tells me there is a bigger chance for me to dig up some out-of-the-box thinking instead of parroting propaganda (the national socialists didn't call themselves nazis). Also in general look at the wording of a site carefully. Most of the revisionist sites have a style devoid of hate, no matter what horrific info they provide. Also, they tend to back up everything they say with extensive documentation, which essentially shows that they are interested in the truth. 3. Once you find a website with info that resonates, see if that has a page with links. Chances are you'll find other good websites that way.

I'm hoping Lord Sid will reply to this question as well, as I think he has this research down to an art form.

[Lord Sidious]

I'm hoping Lord Sid will reply to this question as well, as I think he has this research down to an art form.

Believe it or not, my internet search skills aren't anywhere near as good as you think.
I often struggle to find stuff that I want, most times I don't find it.

[aikisaw]

Gustav


I would like to ask some advice. I am searching the internet. But I never seem to find new 'revolutionary' info. Any methods that you, the reader, use and want to share


I think Karelia explained it well.

I hope this helps, I'm not looking for revolutionary info. I get drawn to things that do not make sense. It might be a single line like The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war. Well that makes no sense. Until you start digging around different word searches and groupings then the truth starts to come through. Trust your instincts.

Some easy tricks .....when LS says look up_____. that is a good clue.....Read the links others have put up and the links on those sites. Words I do not understand....another great source...

I hope this was of some help

[kinnypa]

My working hypothesis in the case of the Holocaust is that it is exaggerated and misrepresented, in order to provide such a lever of shame control.

Interesting point. I'm curious what you base your opinion on? I've been where you may now be, questioning how much of the holocaust is true. I won't argue your opinion with you, but I would like to offer my own opinion. Having met some holocaust survivors, I've come to the conclusion that if even a tenth of the purported victims had been burned in the ovens, then it was still a holocaust. It's kind of like when you dig a deep hole, and you fill it half full of dirt, you don't have half a hole, you're just left with a hole. I think it was because he saw the inhumanity first hand that General Eisenhower said "Get all of it on record, get the films, get the witnesses because down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened".
It wasn't just the Germans that were responsible for this tragedy, it was all those who knew and said or did nothing. If this wasn't a lever of shame control, then I don't want to find out what is.

Looking back through recent history, it seems that the people of Israel have become their own harshest critics. They have, as a people, probably more Nobel prizes per capita than any other society, and yet they are the first to condemn themselves when an innocent dies.

Although I'm not one of them (I'm not even religious), I've definately studied their history, and that of their neighbors enough to change even my own mind, how many people do that?

The new paradigm seems to be a return to the renunciation of the Jewish people, but I can honestly say that I'm not afraid to stand up for the principals of freedom and the people of Isreal.

:israel:

[kinnypa]

The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939

I happened upon this quote by accident ....if their are any accidents.

I then found this web site with a whole page of similar quotes.

Make sure you read the last one.....it got my attention.




http://always-myown.blogspot.com/2009/01/jews-declare-war-on-germany-1933.html



"Judea Declares War on Germany!" - Daily Express headline, March 24, 1933.

"Judea Declares War on Germany! Jews of all the World Unite! Boycott of German Goods! Mass Demonstrations!" - These were all headlines in the Daily Express on March 24, 1933.

"The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany. Fourteen million Jews stand together as one man, to declare war against Germany. The Jewish wholesaler will forsake his firm, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his commerce and the pauper his pitiful shed in order to join together in a holy war against Hitler's people." - Daily Express, March 24, 1933.

"Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here. It is not sufficient that you should buy no goods made in Germany. You must refuse to deal with any merchant or shopkeeper who sells any German-made goods or who patronises German ships or shipping.... we will undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends." - Samuel Undermeyer, in a Radio Broadcast on WABC, New York, August 6, 1933. Reported in the New York Times, August 7, 1933.

Joining with Samuel Untermeyer in calling for a war against Germany, Bernard Baruch, at the same time, was promoting preparations for war against Germany. "I emphasised that the defeat of Germany and Japan and their elimination from world trade would give Britain a tremendous opportunity to swell her foreign commerce in both volume and profit." - Baruch, The Public Years, by Bernard M. Baruch, p.347 (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1960).

Samuel Untermeyer was a Jewish leader and close friend of presidents Wilson and Roosevelt.
Bernard Baruch was a presidential adviser to Wilson, Roosevelt and Truman.

"This declaration called the war against Germany, which was now determined on, a 'holy war'. This war was to be carried out against Germany to its conclusion, to her destruction" (Diese Erklärung nannte den Krieg gegen Deutschland, der nun beschlossen sei, einen heiligen Krieg. Dieser Krieg müsse gegen Deutschland bis zu dessen Ende, bis zu dessen Vernichtung, geführt werden). - Dr. Franz J. Scheidl, Geschichte der Verfemung Deutschlands.

"War in Europe in 1934 was inevitable." - H. Morgenthau, Secretary of the U.S. Treasury, Hearst Press, September, 1933 (also quoted in "The Palestine Plot" by B. Jenson, p. 11 (printed by John McKinley, 11-15 King Street, Perth, Scotland)).

"For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." - Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Armée Allemande" by Jacques Benoist-Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).

"Hitler will have no war (does not want war), but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon." - Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934 (also quoted in his book "The New Holy Alliance").

"We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany." - David A. Brown, National Chairman, United Jewish Campaign, 1934 (quoted in "I Testify Against The Jews" by Robert Edward Edmondson, page 188 and "The Jewish War of Survival" by Arnold Leese, page 52).

"We want to bring about a deep hatred for the Germans, for German soldiers, sailors, and airmen. We must hate until we win." - Lord Beaverbrook, quoted in Niemals! by Heinrich Goitsch.

"There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it." - Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935.

"Before the end of the year, an economic bloc of England, Russia, France and the U.S.A will be formed to bring the German and Italian economic systems to their knees." - Paul Dreyfus, "La Vie de Tanger" May 15, 1938.

On the 3rd of June, 1938, the American Hebrew boasted that they had Jews in the foremost positions of influence in Britain, Russia and France, and that these "three sons of Israel will be sending the Nazi dictator to hell." - Joseph Trimble, the American Hebrew.

"Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war without mercy against her. One may be sure of this: We will lead that war!" - Bernard Lecache, the president of the "International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism," in its newspaper "Droit de Vivre" (Right to Life), 9 November, 1938.

"The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishing Jewish hegemony throughout the world." - Brigadier General George Van Horn Mosely, The New York Tribune, March 29, 1939.

"I wish to confirm in the most explicit manner, the declaration which I and my colleagues made during the last months, and especially in the last week: that the Jews "stand by Great Britain and will fight on the side of the democracies." Our urgent desire is to give effect to these declarations. We wish to do so in a way entirely consonant with the general scheme of British action, and therefore would place ourselves, in matters big and small, under the co-ordinating direction of His Majesty's Government. The Jewish Agency is ready to enter into immediate arrangements for utilizing Jewish manpower, technical ability, resources, etc." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, the London Times, September 5, 1939, and the London Jewish Chronicle, September 8, 1939.

"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." - Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939.

"Stop talking about peace conditions! Break Germany in pieces!" - The Daily Herald, No.7426, 9 December, 1939.

"The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939, quoted in "Reichstagsbrand, Aufklärung einer historischen Legende," by U. Backes, K.H. Janßen, E. Jesse, H. Köhler, H. Mommsen, E Tobias.

"Even if we Jews are not physically at your side in the trenches, we are morally with you. This war is our war and you fight it with us." - Schalom Asch, Les Nouvelles Litterairres, February 10, 1940.

"In losing Germany, Jewry lost a territory from which it exerted power. Therefore it was determined to re-conquer it." - Louis Marschalko, "The World Conquerors : The Real War Criminals."

"The World Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years." - Rabbi M. Perlzweig (head of the British Section of the World Jewish Congress), Toronto Evening Telegram, February 26, 1940.

"The Second World War is being fought for the defense of the fundamentals of Judaism." - Rabbi Felix Mendlesohn, Chicago Sentinel, October 8, 1942.

"We are not denying and are not afraid to confess that this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry... Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry. We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based, we are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance. And we are the Trojan horses in the enemy's fortress. Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, in a Speech on December 3, 1942, in New York.

"Played golf with Joe Kennedy (U.S. Ambassador to Britain). He says that Chamberlain stated that America and world Jewry forced England into World War II." - James Forrestal, Secretary of the Navy (later Secretary of Defense), Diary, December 27, 1945 entry.

"It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish origin or working for Jewish interests. Nor had I ever wished that after the appalling first World War, there would ever be a second against either England or America." - Adolf Hitler, April, 1945.

The joke doing the rounds of the British Union of Fascists at this time, was that the Jewish national anthem was, 'Onward Christian Soldiers.'

I wouldn't have bothered to grab the entire quote, but I wanted the reader to think about it a bit more. In your references to the Jewish response to Hitler's rise to power in January of 1933, it would help the reader to understand the Jewish people were responding to the threats made by Hitler. The first quotes, from March of 1933, were answered by Hitler within two weeks by the The Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service. Now read all the quotes, and replace the word Jew or Jewry with "union".

Now think about how respected the decision to throw all union members into the ovens for standing up for their rights would be.

If your opinion has been altered by a change of the wording, a little soul-searching would be in order. I've been there, I know.

[modwiz]

I'm hoping Lord Sid will reply to this question as well, as I think he has this research down to an art form.

Believe it or not, my internet search skills aren't anywhere near as good as you think.
I often struggle to find stuff that I want, most times I don't find it.

LS, it is your exemplary work ethic that yields such productive results. You have been tireless here at PA and your posts always contribute something of worth.

Humor can be underestimated sometimes.

[Lord Sidious]

My working hypothesis in the case of the Holocaust is that it is exaggerated and misrepresented, in order to provide such a lever of shame control.

Interesting point. I'm curious what you base your opinion on? I've been where you may now be, questioning how much of the holocaust is true. I won't argue your opinion with you, but I would like to offer my own opinion. Having met some holocaust survivors, I've come to the conclusion that if even a tenth of the purported victims had been burned in the ovens, then it was still a holocaust. It's kind of like when you dig a deep hole, and you fill it half full of dirt, you don't have half a hole, you're just left with a hole. I think it was because he saw the inhumanity first hand that General Eisenhower said "Get all of it on record, get the films, get the witnesses because down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened".
It wasn't just the Germans that were responsible for this tragedy, it was all those who knew and said or did nothing. If this wasn't a lever of shame control, then I don't want to find out what is.

Looking back through recent history, it seems that the people of Israel have become their own harshest critics. They have, as a people, probably more Nobel prizes per capita than any other society, and yet they are the first to condemn themselves when an innocent dies.

Although I'm not one of them (I'm not even religious), I've definately studied their history, and that of their neighbors enough to change even my own mind, how many people do that?

The new paradigm seems to be a return to the renunciation of the Jewish people, but I can honestly say that I'm not afraid to stand up for the principals of freedom and the people of Isreal.

:israel:

Ok, well you are a true believer and that is your right.
You are respectful and I expect posters in the thread will treat you the same.
The thing is, the so called survivors often recount tales that make no sense, are scientifically impossible and so on.
Many have been shown to be charlatans.
I would advise you to find a movie called Defamation and watch it.
The victims weren't burnt in ovens, but bodies were cremated in them.
By the way, waving the flag for the israeli state and speaking of freedom is an oxymoron, no one is free there, ask some of our members.



I wouldn't have bothered to grab the entire quote, but I wanted the reader to think about it a bit more. In your references to the Jewish response to Hitler's rise to power in January of 1933, it would help the reader to understand the Jewish people were responding to the threats made by Hitler. The first quotes, from March of 1933, were answered by Hitler within two weeks by the The Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service. Now read all the quotes, and replace the word Jew or Jewry with "union".

Now think about how respected the decision to throw all union members into the ovens for standing up for their rights would be.

If your opinion has been altered by a change of the wording, a little soul-searching would be in order. I've been there, I know.

Could you tell us what threats Hitler made by January 1933 against the jews?
Have you read all the posts in this thread yet?
And please don't come here and play the guilt trip game, we are over that already.

[aikisaw]

The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939

I happened upon this quote by accident ....if their are any accidents.

I then found this web site with a whole page of similar quotes.

Make sure you read the last one.....it got my attention.




http://always-myown.blogspot.com/2009/01/jews-declare-war-on-germany-1933.html



"Judea Declares War on Germany!" - Daily Express headline, March 24, 1933.

"Judea Declares War on Germany! Jews of all the World Unite! Boycott of German Goods! Mass Demonstrations!" - These were all headlines in the Daily Express on March 24, 1933.

"The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany. Fourteen million Jews stand together as one man, to declare war against Germany. The Jewish wholesaler will forsake his firm, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his commerce and the pauper his pitiful shed in order to join together in a holy war against Hitler's people." - Daily Express, March 24, 1933.

"Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here. It is not sufficient that you should buy no goods made in Germany. You must refuse to deal with any merchant or shopkeeper who sells any German-made goods or who patronises German ships or shipping.... we will undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends." - Samuel Undermeyer, in a Radio Broadcast on WABC, New York, August 6, 1933. Reported in the New York Times, August 7, 1933.

Joining with Samuel Untermeyer in calling for a war against Germany, Bernard Baruch, at the same time, was promoting preparations for war against Germany. "I emphasised that the defeat of Germany and Japan and their elimination from world trade would give Britain a tremendous opportunity to swell her foreign commerce in both volume and profit." - Baruch, The Public Years, by Bernard M. Baruch, p.347 (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1960).

Samuel Untermeyer was a Jewish leader and close friend of presidents Wilson and Roosevelt.
Bernard Baruch was a presidential adviser to Wilson, Roosevelt and Truman.

"This declaration called the war against Germany, which was now determined on, a 'holy war'. This war was to be carried out against Germany to its conclusion, to her destruction" (Diese Erklärung nannte den Krieg gegen Deutschland, der nun beschlossen sei, einen heiligen Krieg. Dieser Krieg müsse gegen Deutschland bis zu dessen Ende, bis zu dessen Vernichtung, geführt werden). - Dr. Franz J. Scheidl, Geschichte der Verfemung Deutschlands.

"War in Europe in 1934 was inevitable." - H. Morgenthau, Secretary of the U.S. Treasury, Hearst Press, September, 1933 (also quoted in "The Palestine Plot" by B. Jenson, p. 11 (printed by John McKinley, 11-15 King Street, Perth, Scotland)).

"For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." - Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Armée Allemande" by Jacques Benoist-Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).

"Hitler will have no war (does not want war), but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon." - Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934 (also quoted in his book "The New Holy Alliance").

"We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany." - David A. Brown, National Chairman, United Jewish Campaign, 1934 (quoted in "I Testify Against The Jews" by Robert Edward Edmondson, page 188 and "The Jewish War of Survival" by Arnold Leese, page 52).

"We want to bring about a deep hatred for the Germans, for German soldiers, sailors, and airmen. We must hate until we win." - Lord Beaverbrook, quoted in Niemals! by Heinrich Goitsch.

"There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it." - Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935.

"Before the end of the year, an economic bloc of England, Russia, France and the U.S.A will be formed to bring the German and Italian economic systems to their knees." - Paul Dreyfus, "La Vie de Tanger" May 15, 1938.

On the 3rd of June, 1938, the American Hebrew boasted that they had Jews in the foremost positions of influence in Britain, Russia and France, and that these "three sons of Israel will be sending the Nazi dictator to hell." - Joseph Trimble, the American Hebrew.

"Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war without mercy against her. One may be sure of this: We will lead that war!" - Bernard Lecache, the president of the "International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism," in its newspaper "Droit de Vivre" (Right to Life), 9 November, 1938.

"The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishing Jewish hegemony throughout the world." - Brigadier General George Van Horn Mosely, The New York Tribune, March 29, 1939.

"I wish to confirm in the most explicit manner, the declaration which I and my colleagues made during the last months, and especially in the last week: that the Jews "stand by Great Britain and will fight on the side of the democracies." Our urgent desire is to give effect to these declarations. We wish to do so in a way entirely consonant with the general scheme of British action, and therefore would place ourselves, in matters big and small, under the co-ordinating direction of His Majesty's Government. The Jewish Agency is ready to enter into immediate arrangements for utilizing Jewish manpower, technical ability, resources, etc." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, the London Times, September 5, 1939, and the London Jewish Chronicle, September 8, 1939.

"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." - Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939.

"Stop talking about peace conditions! Break Germany in pieces!" - The Daily Herald, No.7426, 9 December, 1939.

"The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939, quoted in "Reichstagsbrand, Aufklärung einer historischen Legende," by U. Backes, K.H. Janßen, E. Jesse, H. Köhler, H. Mommsen, E Tobias.

"Even if we Jews are not physically at your side in the trenches, we are morally with you. This war is our war and you fight it with us." - Schalom Asch, Les Nouvelles Litterairres, February 10, 1940.

"In losing Germany, Jewry lost a territory from which it exerted power. Therefore it was determined to re-conquer it." - Louis Marschalko, "The World Conquerors : The Real War Criminals."

"The World Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years." - Rabbi M. Perlzweig (head of the British Section of the World Jewish Congress), Toronto Evening Telegram, February 26, 1940.

"The Second World War is being fought for the defense of the fundamentals of Judaism." - Rabbi Felix Mendlesohn, Chicago Sentinel, October 8, 1942.

"We are not denying and are not afraid to confess that this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry... Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry. We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based, we are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance. And we are the Trojan horses in the enemy's fortress. Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, in a Speech on December 3, 1942, in New York.

"Played golf with Joe Kennedy (U.S. Ambassador to Britain). He says that Chamberlain stated that America and world Jewry forced England into World War II." - James Forrestal, Secretary of the Navy (later Secretary of Defense), Diary, December 27, 1945 entry.

"It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish origin or working for Jewish interests. Nor had I ever wished that after the appalling first World War, there would ever be a second against either England or America." - Adolf Hitler, April, 1945.

The joke doing the rounds of the British Union of Fascists at this time, was that the Jewish national anthem was, 'Onward Christian Soldiers.'

I wouldn't have bothered to grab the entire quote, but I wanted the reader to think about it a bit more. In your references to the Jewish response to Hitler's rise to power in January of 1933, it would help the reader to understand the Jewish people were responding to the threats made by Hitler. The first quotes, from March of 1933, were answered by Hitler within two weeks by the The Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service. Now read all the quotes, and replace the word Jew or Jewry with "union".

Now think about how respected the decision to throw all union members into the ovens for standing up for their rights would be.

If your opinion has been altered by a change of the wording, a little soul-searching would be in order. I've been there, I know.

Hello kinnypa

I tried your experiment and all I can say is that it does not translate. Who has a holy war over unions? The Jewish leadership declared a holy war with Hitler because Hitler quit the banks.

Right now in the USA, Wisconsin and other states are having a battle about unions. The world leaders are not getting together and declaring holy wars or calling for the annihilation of Wisconsin and their people.

The rest of what you had to say.... I get where you are coming from and I understand that you think you are protecting people.

It is also obvious to me that you have not read most of this thread. You are unaware of the intent of the people who are here researching this delicate subject. That this thread was set up so that the Jews not in power could realize that they are being used by the Jews in power. That by uncovering this deception played on them, they can be protected or at least aware. It is also a quest for truth ....not the truth that I want .....or you want .....just the truth.

In some countries it is illegal to talk about this subject.!!!! Somebody is hiding something. I've known that for 6 weeks now. I still can't get used to that fact. Those people are able to read about it here.

If it is a subject you care about, please, read the thread, go to the links, watch the movies, you will be surprised at how many lies you have been told.

[kinnypa]

And please don't come here and play the guild trip game, we are over that already.

No guild or guilt trip intended. I don't expect that you played any role in what happened, as I doubt you were there. As for the "What really happened" type movies, as I've said earlier, I've been there and done that. It was part of the process to getting where I'm at now. I'll let you folks get back to the discussion. Just a point though: A thread was introduced to discuss the veracity of the Holocaust, according to the title with the presumption that it is all propaganda. How can there be a discussion if the assumption that it's propaganda isn't examined thoroughly? As for not reading the entire thread, I felt it only necessary to address some of the items in it to highlight a different point of view. Thank you all for your civility in your responses.

[Lord Sidious]

And please don't come here and play the guild trip game, we are over that already.

No guild or guilt trip intended. I don't expect that you played any role in what happened, as I doubt you were there. As for the "What really happened" type movies, as I've said earlier, I've been there and done that. It was part of the process to getting where I'm at now. I'll let you folks get back to the discussion. Just a point though: A thread was introduced to discuss the veracity of the Holocaust, according to the title with the presumption that it is all propaganda. How can there be a discussion if the assumption that it's propaganda isn't examined thoroughly? As for not reading the entire thread, I felt it only necessary to address some of the items in it to highlight a different point of view. Thank you all for your civility in your responses.

No need to leave, stay and read, you might find stuff that is interesting.
I didn't start the thread, but I would say that a lot of the story is propaganda, but not all.

[modwiz]

And please don't come here and play the guilt trip game, we are over that already.

No guild or guilt trip intended. I don't expect that you played any role in what happened, as I doubt you were there. As for the "What really happened" type movies, as I've said earlier, I've been there and done that. It was part of the process to getting where I'm at now. I'll let you folks get back to the discussion. Just a point though: A thread was introduced to discuss the veracity of the Holocaust, according to the title with the presumption that it is all propaganda. How can there be a discussion if the assumption that it's propaganda isn't examined thoroughly? As for not reading the entire thread, I felt it only necessary to address some of the items in it to highlight a different point of view. Thank you all for your civility in your responses.

The title of the thread in no way presumes that all holocaust information is propaganda. That was you bending the words into an inflammatory form. An attempt to trip up the unwary and cherry pickers, like yourself. This thread is about looking under the propaganda that exists to create a world view of a specific point in history.

Our purview includes the roots of WWll found in WWl. How the USA got involved in WWl, how the war was protracted and finally the Treaty Of Versailles. The Bolshevik Revolution is a huge subplot of this story as well. There is a continuous poopy trail through all this and it leads us into WWll and finally the creation of Israel.

The facts we have uncovered in this thread are not found in the history books we read in school. The criminality of free speech in regard to this subject in many parts of Europe is a sign of something very amiss.

We have managed to do all this here while keeping anti-Jewish sentiments an unwelcome addition of this dialogue. Some say you cannot parse out Jewishness and Zionism. This thinking is a part of the propaganda and hasbara we are inundated with in our MSM and other sources of programming.

Only criminals benefit from shadows and obfuscation. Akaisaw has stated we are also speaking for those who face prison for being overheard having these discussions.
I do not know if what sites they view on the internet are prosecutable also.

Finally,reading of the whole thread is important not only for information but to see the positive work being done here.

[RedeZra]

who says ignorance is bliss ?

it is ignorance that is the cause of all misery


it's good to face the facts


a fact is that a Jewish minority is ruling a Christian majority

well mostly Christians in name only since the Western world is loosing it's religion after a successful subversion campaign by the ruling Jewish minority

what can we expect when we let a jewish minority rule our Christian heritage

it's a clash of ideologies

this is a fight you don't have to pick as it has been picked for you


you can of course contact your local authorities and tell them that you're not a Christian

make a stand so to speak


what has this to do with the holohoax ?

not much really


I'm only pointing at the power that can pull off such a huge bluff and get away with it

[karelia]

this is a fight you don't have to pick as it has been picked for you


Well, I don't have to participate. :)


you can of course contact your local authorities and tell them that you're not a Christian

make a stand so to speak

Or, perhaps, not, as the only authority over me I know of is me.


what has this to do with the holohoax ?

not much really


I'm only pointing at the power that can pull off such a huge bluff and get away with it

Not much? I would say everything. If you look carefully, you see the same behavioral pattern everywhere. Once you do, it's relatively easy to distinguish between truth and deception.

[RedeZra]

Not much? I would say everything. If you look carefully, you see the same behavioral pattern everywhere. Once you do, it's relatively easy to distinguish between truth and deception.

I think it is an important piece of the puzzle to help see the big picture that the PTB is in fact an elite group of wealthy Jewish extremists

They are powerful alright with minions of all denominations working for them but they are few compared to the mass of mankind

They're working on a dream of world domination

A homeworld so to speak ; )

[modwiz]

I believe the term holohoax instead of holocaust is problematic and takes away from what was a true holocaust that swept across Eurasia and ended with deaths totaling near the the seventy million mark without fabrications. The majority of these dead are non-Jewish but for us of the Human family any of the millions murdered need to be remembered. This massive murdering of innocents can not be trademarked or branded which is part of the propaganda that we are struggling with here in this thread.

Never again, is a cry for humanity at large not any one group. There was no hoax. There were false details and stories.

Tens of millions had their lives ended by the time this abomination wound down in Cambodia. The threads that bind all these murders together are easy to see once one has access to unedited history. It is a lesson one embarks on at ones' own ability to read and absorb. This thread allows different sources to be collated and put forward for this important journey to be made.

The truth will set you free but, first it will piss you off.

Or break down and cry.

Perhaps both.

[RedeZra]

the Holocaust is per definition the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II by Nazi Germany throughout Nazi-occupied territory

Shall we call it a Holy cow then ; )

[karelia]

I think it is an important piece of the puzzle to help see the big picture that the PTB is in fact an elite group of wealthy Jewish extremists

Yes. And only because so many allow it. I am not a person. I am a woman.


They are powerful alright with minions of all denominations working for them but they are few compared to the mass of mankind

They're working on a dream of world domination

A homeworld so to speak ; )[/I]

Actually, I think they are powerless. It's humanity who allows them the power. If we stop granting it, they'll fall just like any house of cards does. Just my opinion of course.

[Gustav]

Thank you for the tips on scroogle and the deeper following of provided by Sidious and others. I think it is indeed a good way. I have known scroogle for about a year now, but for some reason I don't use it. I will do a few queries and see what differences come up. It seems fairly logical that a company partially/completely funded/financed by the NSA (I believe to remember well) has certain filters in place that leave out certain search returns. After all, they only index a few percent of the complete web. But that is topic for another discussion.

Welcome to the new contributors on this thread. As Sidious stated, do stay and read. I did and I know it changed my perspective. I felt something was not in order, but did not know what. I still do not know exactly, but the value lies in checkable (is that an english word?) facts that everyone of us can see, read and interpret. For me it is not about denying the happening of the events. it is as the misrepresentation for a purpose not fully known that I am trying to find out. Perhaps through this thread, perhaps on some other moment in my life.

Modwiz, I agree with you on the wave ending with the fields in cambodia. One might argue that the camps in the former Yugoslavia are a last legacy in this chapter of concentrating people on specific locations (regardless intent or outcome). On of the persons I drew my inspiration from is E. Ritter von Kuenhnelt-Leddihn. He has an interesting notion that is exactly the same as yours. He adds that these centuries of the gulags and gallows started with the French Revolution, which bound people to the state instead of themselves. Since the state provides rights and privileges for you, the state demands a right to own your life. Which, if through education, is very effective, because everyone will believe it. Thus if a country from then on went to war, the state claimed a moral right to claim your life and even have you paying for it through taxes etc. Your remark also points exactly at what we are discussing here. Why, of all tens of millions of people who have died in concentration camps since the invention of it, reportedly by the english in the Boer War in South Africa, is it only the jewish chapter of this terrible book read over and over again?



I wonder if this is what's meant by the phrase, 'and history will repeat itself yet again.'


Perhaps, but than again, history or most of its daily events are part of cycles. People got up in the morning also a few thousand years ago. It is in my opinion the unique occurrences that we have to point to that disrupt this cycle.

[Lord Sidious]

Not much? I would say everything. If you look carefully, you see the same behavioral pattern everywhere. Once you do, it's relatively easy to distinguish between truth and deception.

I think it is an important piece of the puzzle to help see the big picture that the PTB is in fact an elite group of wealthy Jewish extremists

They are powerful alright with minions of all denominations working for them but they are few compared to the mass of mankind

They're working on a dream of world domination

A homeworld so to speak ; )

It isn't just those who can be identified as jews.
The so called powers encompass many creeds and races with one thing in common other than a psycopathic need to control the world, money.




Welcome to the new contributors on this thread. As Sidious stated, do stay and read. I did and I know it changed my perspective. I felt something was not in order, but did not know what. I still do not know exactly, but the value lies in checkable (is that an english word?) facts that everyone of us can see, read and interpret. For me it is not about denying the happening of the events. it is as the misrepresentation for a purpose not fully known that I am trying to find out. Perhaps through this thread, perhaps on some other moment in my life.

I am glad to see that you got something from the thread, that is the entire reason we are debating it.


Modwiz, I agree with you on the wave ending with the fields in cambodia. One might argue that the camps in the former Yugoslavia are a last legacy in this chapter of concentrating people on specific locations (regardless intent or outcome). On of the persons I drew my inspiration from is E. Ritter von Kuenhnelt-Leddihn. He has an interesting notion that is exactly the same as yours. He adds that these centuries of the gulags and gallows started with the French Revolution, which bound people to the state instead of themselves. Since the state provides rights and privileges for you, the state demands a right to own your life. Which, if through education, is very effective, because everyone will believe it. Thus if a country from then on went to war, the state claimed a moral right to claim your life and even have you paying for it through taxes etc. Your remark also points exactly at what we are discussing here. Why, of all tens of millions of people who have died in concentration camps since the invention of it, reportedly by the english in the Boer War in South Africa, is it only the jewish chapter of this terrible book read over and over again?



I wonder if this is what's meant by the phrase, 'and history will repeat itself yet again.'


Perhaps, but than again, history or most of its daily events are part of cycles. People got up in the morning also a few thousand years ago. It is in my opinion the unique occurrences that we have to point to that disrupt this cycle.

AHA! This is an excellent point.
Citizen, a very innocuous word.
Or is it?
The REAL meaning of the word and I don't know if you would be able to find it online is subject of the state and comes from the French revolution, which in fact was a coup, similar to the bolshevik scum.

Thanks Gustav, this is what I like about measured debate, things come up all the time that you don't think of yourself.

[modwiz]

Thank you for the tips on scroogle and the deeper following of provided by Sidious and others. I think it is indeed a good way. I have known scroogle for about a year now, but for some reason I don't use it. I will do a few queries and see what differences come up. It seems fairly logical that a company partially/completely funded/financed by the NSA (I believe to remember well) has certain filters in place that leave out certain search returns. After all, they only index a few percent of the complete web. But that is topic for another discussion.

Welcome to the new contributors on this thread. As Sidious stated, do stay and read. I did and I know it changed my perspective. I felt something was not in order, but did not know what. I still do not know exactly, but the value lies in checkable (is that an english word?) facts that everyone of us can see, read and interpret. For me it is not about denying the happening of the events. it is as the misrepresentation for a purpose not fully known that I am trying to find out. Perhaps through this thread, perhaps on some other moment in my life.

Modwiz, I agree with you on the wave ending with the fields in cambodia. One might argue that the camps in the former Yugoslavia are a last legacy in this chapter of concentrating people on specific locations (regardless intent or outcome). On of the persons I drew my inspiration from is E. Ritter von Kuenhnelt-Leddihn. He has an interesting notion that is exactly the same as yours. He adds that these centuries of the gulags and gallows started with the French Revolution, which bound people to the state instead of themselves. Since the state provides rights and privileges for you, the state demands a right to own your life. Which, if through education, is very effective, because everyone will believe it. Thus if a country from then on went to war, the state claimed a moral right to claim your life and even have you paying for it through taxes etc. Your remark also points exactly at what we are discussing here. Why, of all tens of millions of people who have died in concentration camps since the invention of it, reportedly by the english in the Boer War in South Africa, is it only the jewish chapter of this terrible book read over and over again?
.

I agree with you Gustav about the concentration camps in the former Yugoslavia. Africa is not off my radar either but, I was refering to an ideology that convulsed the Eurasian continent as a wave and was also narrowing my criteria to areas where the deaths were numbered in the millions.

Another point of this wave was the thoughtful and deliberate extermination of the intellectual classes. This has ramifications beyond the obvious and has to do with an attempt to keep higher mentally functioning people within a select gene pool. It makes claiming superiority easier besides the more practical reasons.

[aikisaw]

I'm hoping Lord Sid will reply to this question as well, as I think he has this research down to an art form.

Believe it or not, my internet search skills aren't anywhere near as good as you think.
I often struggle to find stuff that I want, most times I don't find it.

LS, it is your exemplary work ethic that yields such productive results. You have been tireless here at PA and your posts always contribute something of worth.

Humor can be underestimated sometimes.

I agree with your thoughts on LS.

What is this" humor" thing I keep hearing about? Got any links?

[karelia]

So... I read the whiteknights report Kerry linked to on her blog, and then I followed the links on it, since the Hacienda Dignidad was mentioned, which always sparks my interest. And I realised something. Or at least I think I did.

You know how we learned that Germany never did surrender at the end of WWII, and how there has never been a peace treaty. I think that is because the cabal is at war with Germany (and I don't mean the federal republic) and has been, to this day.

A few weeks ago, I read something interesting on a German website. I found it at the time a bit too glorifying, so didn't pay much attention. But after reading the article and links this morning, I remembered one particular phrase, which said (paraphrased and translated): The Reich Deutsche have the technology as well as the power to win this war, but they're not allowed to interfere.

There is probably no doubt that the cabal leans towards the dark side, right? What if those Germans in exile (Chile/Argentinia/Antarctica) lean towards the light side (nourishing as opposed to destructive) and that is the reason the cabal hates them so much? Any thoughts on this?

[RedeZra]

It isn't just those who can be identified as jews.
The so called powers encompass many creeds and races with one thing in common other than a psycopathic need to control the world, money.


I believe a few wealthy Ashkenazi families - like the Rotchilds - sit at the top of the Western world hierarchy

Ashkenazi is not Jewish per see but a converted clan of Khazarian royalty

So our rulers are old bluebloods if you like ; )


Sure I believe it is Khazarian royalty on the throne of England

---

It is interesting to notice that Ashkenazi Jews composed only 3 percent of the world's Jewish population in the 11th century and today Ashkenazi Jews make up approximately 80 percent of Jews worldwide

http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles3/sephardic.htm



It seems life has been a success to Ashkenazi Jews - but for what a prize ?

[Lord Sidious]

So... I read the whiteknights report Kerry linked to on her blog, and then I followed the links on it, since the Hacienda Dignidad was mentioned, which always sparks my interest. And I realised something. Or at least I think I did.

You know how we learned that Germany never did surrender at the end of WWII, and how there has never been a peace treaty. I think that is because the cabal is at war with Germany (and I don't mean the federal republic) and has been, to this day.

A few weeks ago, I read something interesting on a German website. I found it at the time a bit too glorifying, so didn't pay much attention. But after reading the article and links this morning, I remembered one particular phrase, which said (paraphrased and translated): The Reich Deutsche have the technology as well as the power to win this war, but they're not allowed to interfere.

There is probably no doubt that the cabal leans towards the dark side, right? What if those Germans in exile (Chile/Argentinia/Antarctica) lean towards the light side (nourishing as opposed to destructive) and that is the reason the cabal hates them so much? Any thoughts on this?

Why do you think they use the swastika/hakenkreuz/kolovrat/fylfot as the symbol of the NSDAP?
Why do you think Hitler told Skorzeny that the Reich would not be allowed to use their atomic bombs in Europe?
Why do you think they got rid of usury and debt generating banks?
etc.




It isn't just those who can be identified as jews.
The so called powers encompass many creeds and races with one thing in common other than a psycopathic need to control the world, money.


I believe a few wealthy Ashkenazi families - like the Rotchilds - sit at the top of the Western world hierarchy

Ashkenazi is not Jewish per see but a converted clan of Khazarian royalty

So our rulers are old bluebloods if you like ; )


Sure I believe it is Khazarian royalty on the throne of England

---

It is interesting to notice that Ashkenazi Jews composed only 3 percent of the world's Jewish population in the 11th century and today Ashkenazi Jews make up approximately 80 percent of Jews worldwide

http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles3/sephardic.htm



It seems life has been a success to Ashkenazi Jews - but for what a prize ?

I think that they think they are at the top of the tree, but they are not.
Remember the all seeing eye?
I would think that the bankers think they are the top row of the pyramid answering directly to the eye, but I don't think that they are, I think they are on the second level.
And it isn't just jews, it is all types, loyal to the elites only.
It doesn't matter whether we think the khazars are ''real'' jews or not, we don't have the right to decide who is or isn't jewish.
I don't really care either, they will all want to see us dead equally.

[RedeZra]

I think that they think they are at the top of the tree, but they are not.
Remember the all seeing eye?
I would think that the bankers think they are the top row of the pyramid answering directly to the eye, but I don't think that they are, I think they are on the second level.
And it isn't just jews, it is all types, loyal to the elites only.
It doesn't matter whether we think the khazars are ''real'' jews or not, we don't have the right to decide who is or isn't jewish.
I don't really care either, they will all want to see us dead equally.

Yes the all-seeing Eye hovering above the 'not yet finished' pyramid of power

the Eye is watching the earth and waiting in spiritual shadows to connect to this mortal realm and claim it



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQyGri9LUaF5y7OYfqCGL0QnK2oFMrlpqxW8nSSBveeXgKiWdk_&t=1


there are rumors that the Elite is in league with spiritual powers and principalities inhabitating an invisible astral dimension

this is not news for those that believe what the Bible states - heck all religions speak of dark discarnates out to pervert and corrupt mankind

[karelia]

Why do you think they use the swastika/hakenkreuz/kolovrat/fylfot as the symbol of the NSDAP?

At the moment I don't know, but I'm going on the next research binge now.

Also, I don't think the SS logo stands for Schutzstaffel. Schwarze Sonne would make more sense.

[Lord Sidious]

Why do you think they use the swastika/hakenkreuz/kolovrat/fylfot as the symbol of the NSDAP?

At the moment I don't know, but I'm going on the next research binge now.

Also, I don't think the SS logo stands for Schutzstaffel. Schwarze Sonne would make more sense.

Or both, as is the way with esoterica.
A hidden meaning and a visible one.

[Maria Stade]

Why do you think they use the swastika/hakenkreuz/kolovrat/fylfot as the symbol of the NSDAP?

At the moment I don't know, but I'm going on the next research binge now.

Also, I don't think the SS logo stands for Schutzstaffel. Schwarze Sonne would make more sense.

Or both, as is the way with esoterica.
A hidden meaning and a visible one.

I think some answers might be found here !

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15165-Operation-Black-sun

[jorr lundstrom]

Why do you think they use the swastika/hakenkreuz/kolovrat/fylfot as the symbol of the NSDAP?

At the moment I don't know, but I'm going on the next research binge now.

Also, I don't think the SS logo stands for Schutzstaffel. Schwarze Sonne would make more sense.

Or both, as is the way with esoterica.
A hidden meaning and a visible one.

I think some answers might be found here !

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15165-Operation-Black-sun

From this page, #9

Peter Moon tells us in his book 'The Black Sun, on page 172 - "The Vril Society began around the same time as the Thule Society when Karl Haushofer founded the "Bruder des Lichts", which means Brothers of the Light. This organization is sometimes referred to at the Luminous Lodge. This group was eventually renamed the Vril-Gesellschaft as it rose in prominence and united three major societies: the Lords of the Black Stone, having emerged from the Teutonic Order in 1917; the black Knights of the Thule Society; and the Black Sun, later identified as the elite of Heinrich Himmler's SS. Whereas the Thule Society ended up focusing primarily upon materialistic and political agendas, the Vril Society put its attention on the "Other Side."

[Gustav]

from Modwiz: I agree with you Gustav about the concentration camps in the former Yugoslavia. Africa is not off my radar either but, I was refering to an ideology that convulsed the Eurasian continent as a wave and was also narrowing my criteria to areas where the deaths were numbered in the millions.

thanks for narrowing that down. Now I know where you were pointing at more precisely.


from Modwiz: "Another point of this wave was the thoughtful and deliberate extermination of the intellectual classes. This has ramifications beyond the obvious and has to do with an attempt to keep higher mentally functioning people within a select gene pool. It makes claiming superiority easier besides the more practical reasons."

And that is exactly what happened in France. There was an extermination program of the free-thinking elite. Mainly represented by nobles with property and time to think for themselves. It ties in with the remark Sidious makes about the coup that the French Revolution really was. That to me is very true, because the very first communist or communard banquets were already held before the french revolution if I remember correctly. Source for this is the book: 'Fire in the minds of men'. Policies introduced after the french revolution and the massive hanging and killing of all opposing in name of the state is a good sign of communism ;). As a precursor to schoolbook nazism/european unionism/communism/socialism/anarchism/liberalism/etcetera-ism this is a great book to read.

On the swastika. I heard this when I was many years younger. The swastika in its original form is the sign of everlasting luck/peace/prosperity. The nazi's mirrored it so it would represent the opposite. True story? Don't know for sure. But there are enough knowledgable people here to correct me if i'm wrong ;)

Skorzeny? Don't know they guy.. and pffft gone is my night of sleeping... Thanks sidious..


from Sidious:

AHA! This is an excellent point.
Citizen, a very innocuous word.
Or is it?
The REAL meaning of the word and I don't know if you would be able to find it online is subject of the state and comes from the French revolution, which in fact was a coup, similar to the bolshevik scum.

excellent point: do you mean the cycles in history in which it is more interesting to point out the disturbance rather than the cycle?
don't know if the citizen-definition is found online either, but I knew it already. It is the difference between being an inhabitant of a country be free to go where you want and dissent and being a citizen in a country and be registered and shut up. Very strange that it works this way for most of our framework of thinking (at least for me). But before the french revolution the whole notion of nations did not exist.
Again from: fire in the minds of men (if I remember correctly) is the notion that one of the old revolutionaries of the French Revolution notes is the following in paraphrase. "Prior to the French Revolution an Austrian officer could have walked in full gala-outfit through Paris and people would ask him from whence he came. After the French Revolution that same man would have been lynched, just by recognition that he is not 'a Frenchman' and therefore must be an enemy."

And than talking about history repeating itself. This same remark is made about Berlin with regard to WWI, but I do not remember anymore who made this comment.

[ulli]

http://www.american-buddha.com/lit.godsbeasts.toc.htm


tons of links here, for those who want to get deeper into this subject...

particularly about the Nazis and their involvement in occultism.

Interestingly enough, their link to Tibet is not only the mirrored swastika,

but they actually sent scholars on several occasions to get a better idea of Tibetan occult practises...

[aikisaw]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15165-Operation-Black-Sun&p=177331&viewfull=1#post177331

I posted this on the swastika earlier.Linked above


From Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The word swastika came from the Sanskrit word svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck. It is composed of su- meaning "good, well" and asti "to be" svasti thus means "well-being." The suffix -ka either forms a diminutive or intensifies the verbal meaning, and svastika might thus be translated literally as "that which is associated with well-being," corresponding to "lucky charm" or "thing that is auspicious."[1] The word in this sense is first used in the Harivamsa.[2] As noted by Monier-Williams in his Sanskrit-English dictionary, according to Alexander Cunningham, its shape represents a monogram formed by interlacing of the letters of the auspicious words su-astí (svasti) written in Ashokan characters

[Lord Sidious]

And that is exactly what happened in France. There was an extermination program of the free-thinking elite. Mainly represented by nobles with property and time to think for themselves. It ties in with the remark Sidious makes about the coup that the French Revolution really was. That to me is very true, because the very first communist or communard banquets were already held before the french revolution if I remember correctly. Source for this is the book: 'Fire in the minds of men'. Policies introduced after the french revolution and the massive hanging and killing of all opposing in name of the state is a good sign of communism ;). As a precursor to schoolbook nazism/european unionism/communism/socialism/anarchism/liberalism/etcetera-ism this is a great book to read.

Haven't heard of that book. The so called revolution was followed by the first real communist attempted takeover of 1848 in Paris, again.


On the swastika. I heard this when I was many years younger. The swastika in its original form is the sign of everlasting luck/peace/prosperity. The nazi's mirrored it so it would represent the opposite. True story? Don't know for sure. But there are enough knowledgable people here to correct me if i'm wrong ;)

Incorrectomundo. I have posted about this before.
I saw a show I recorded from the history channel last year, just the other day.
About the so called dark ages. It was the episode about the Angles, Saxons and Jutes.
They showed an amulet exactly the same as the NSDAP version, tilted the same inside a ring.

Skorzeny? Don't know they guy.. and pffft gone is my night of sleeping... Thanks sidious..[/QUOTE]

Otto Skorzeny is a very interesting guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny
Sleep? We don't need no stinking sleep.


http://www.american-buddha.com/lit.godsbeasts.toc.htm


tons of links here, for those who want to get deeper into this subject...

particularly about the Nazis and their involvement in occultism.

Interestingly enough, their link to Tibet is not only the mirrored swastika,

but they actually sent scholars on several occasions to get a better idea of Tibetan occult practises...

I saw the first line on that page, pfffffffffffffffft, check out this drivel.


Most important, the central doctrine of nazism, that the Jew was evil and had to be exterminated, had its origin in the Gnostic position that there were two worlds, one good and one evil, one dark and one light, one materialistic and one spiritual

Funny how no one has ever found a genuine pre war or wartime document that orders the extermination of jews.

[Mandala]

The survivors I have met with their Id # tatooed on their arms, lived through hell, watched family members die, were experimented on, starved and had to shovel the bones of their families from the ovens.
The lie may be different at every level, but these stories were burned into my heart and memory. Whatever the overall reason for this, I pray it never happens again.

[Lord Sidious]

The survivors I have met with their Id # tatooed on their arms, lived through hell, watched family members die, were experimented on, starved and had to shovel the bones of their families from the ovens.
The lie may be different at every level, but these stories were burned into my heart and memory. Whatever the overall reason for this, I pray it never happens again.

I have no information on what you claim, nor do I have a reason to believe you or disbelieve you.
Most of the stories I have seen were at least partially untrue.
Where did you meet these people?

[karelia]

I think some answers might be found here !

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15165-Operation-Black-sun

Thank you, and yes, possibly. If you can distinguish between English and cabal lingo.

I read the Peter Moon books. They're very interesting and provide a lot of food for thought. His first book about Montauk woke me up in a big way.