A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ... [Archive] - Page 4

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The Truth Is In There

17th April 2013, 12:04

here's something to think about - in all trials, when 20 "witnesses" say "xxx" happened and it is proved beyond a doubt that "xxx" can't have happened because it is scientifically impossible, then the witness testimonies are rejected and the scientific proof counts. not so where all things "holocaust" are concerned. here, the witness testimonies are accepted, no matter if they are scientifically sound or make any sense at all, and evidence that disproves the claims beyond the shadow of a doubt is suppressed. there's no other topic where things are handled that way in court. ask yourself why this is done.

Hervé

17th April 2013, 13:14

Such murky waters to wade through in order to get some understanding of the overall situation and the reason why neither FDR nor Churchill made any mention of it in their memoirs... they were part of it:

Are Jews Being Set Up for Another Holocaust?
April 14, 2013

http://www.henrymakow.com/perl.jpg

Compare the article below with this review of a new book (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/books/review/fdr-and-the-jews-by-richard-breitman-and-allan-j-lichtman.html?_r=1&)"FDR & the Jews" which portrays FDR, an Illuminati Jew, as a Christian, and whitewashes his role in the holocaust. As The Holocaust Conspiracy demonstrates, historians hide the Illuminati role in the holocaust, which was designed to justify the creation of Israel and replace the crucifixion of Christ as the central metaphor of divine sacrifice.

by Henry Makow Ph.D.
(from Feb 27, 2008)

In 1938-39, just before Europe erupted in an inferno for Jews, all the exits were sealed shut. The Nazis had no problem allowing Jews to leave. The problem was that no country allowed them to enter.

In May 1939, the passenger liner "St. Louis" carrying 900 German Jewish refugees was turned away from Havana. The passengers' costly tourist visas had been revoked by Cuban authorities. The liner lingered near the coast of Florida but FDR refused to let it dock. Reluctantly, the ship returned to Europe where the refugees were divided among four Allied countries, of which three soon were overrun.

The image of unwanted Jews was seared into the collective Jewish psyche. It argued the necessity of a homeland in Israel as insurance against anti-Semitism. Millions of Jews devoted their money and lives to wresting Israel from its rightful owners and building a Jewish sanctuary there. Millions of non-Jews were recruited to this cause. World peace has hung in the balance ever since.

FDR famously said nothing in history happens by accident. The possibility that this gruesome spectacle was staged to manipulate Jews, and give them a kind of moral impunity, is repugnant to consider.

However, a book, "The Holocaust Conspiracy" (1989) shows how Allied and neutral governments ensured that most Jews would remain in Europe and would burn. The author William R. Perl argues that a parallel Nuremberg Trial is necessary for "those leading figures in the Allied and neutral camps" who "knowingly and willingly co-operated in the German annihilation scheme." (34)

William Perl (1906-1998) was not some armchair conspiracy theorist like me. He was a lawyer in Vienna in the 1930's who helped organize illegal transits to Palestine for the Revisionist Zionists. He negotiated with Adolf Eichmann face-to-face; and after the war, he prosecuted Nazi war criminals.

In this book, Perl argues that the Jewish holocaust was part of an international conspiracy. But of course, he didn't understand that the perpetrators were "the Illuminati," the highest rung of Freemasonry empowered by the world central banking cartel. Their goal is to create a world government tyranny dedicated to Lucifer with its capital in Jerusalem.

Holocaust means "burned offering." By what logic can we call this genocide a "sacrifice"? By Illuminati logic of course! They sacrificed Jews to hoodwink the world into establishing a Masonic state in Israel. The design of the Israeli Supreme Court (http://www.thegoldenreport.com/asp/jerrysnewsmanager/anmviewer.asp?a=817&print=yes)is proof that this is exactly what has transpired. Modern Israel was Masonic from its conception. (http://www.rense.com/general28/brit.htm)

This begs the question: If the Jewish holocaust was contrived by the people who run the world, would they do it again? I'll address this question at the end.

PERL'S CASE

William Perl states that there were "deliberate, concerted steps to thwart rescue actions...not only by individuals in power but by governments." He says this failure to rescue was more than a simple lack of action but a "deliberate set of actions bound to ensure the success of the German annihilation plans." While this seems "unbelievable," he says the documents available make this conclusion "not only logical but inescapable." (16)

For example, Morgenthau's Treasury Dept. investigated the State Department and identified a half dozen top officials it described as "an American underground to let the Jews be killed." The report was especially critical of John J. McCloy, assistant Secretary of War, who later became the Rockefeller's lawyer, the President of the World Bank and a member of the Warren Commission. Yes children, he was Illuminati.

Perl says that next to the Nazis, the British "carry the heaviest guilt" for the Jewish holocaust because they fought tooth and nail to block the escape route to Palestine. In fact, the first person killed by the British in WW2 was a Jewish refugee on the vessel "Tiger Hill."

Now you ask, if the Rothschilds control England, and wanted to set up a national home for Jews, why wouldn't England let all these Jews go to Israel? The answer is that this action would demonstrate to Jews that they didn't need a state and didn't need to become the lethal weapon they have become in the hands of the Rothschilds.

The Soviets were supposed to be a Jewish front. But Perl also blames the USSR. Information was tightly controlled in Russia and the Soviets did nothing to warn the Jews of what they could expect from the Nazis. (In his biography of Hitler, John Toland describes Jews in the Ukraine greeting the Nazis as saviors.)

Just to illustrate the transnational nature of the Illuminati, in Feb 1942, a Soviet submarine torpedoed the "Struma" a disabled cattle boat crammed with 760 Romanian Jewish refugees. There was one survivor. Why this gratuitous murder of Jews? More souls sacrificed for the Luciferian New World Order capital.

The Allies also blocked Nazi attempts to ransom Jews and calls to bomb the concentration camps, although factories five miles from Auschwitz were demolished in 1944. In all this, the Allies were supported by the Zionist establishment, (http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/Kerry_Gaza.htm) which is directed by the Illuminati.

- See more at: http://www.henrymakow.com/#sthash.kPdZKfVm.dpuf

Full article: http://henrymakow.com/are_jews_being_set_up_for_anot.html

The Allies also blocked Nazi attempts to ransom Jews and calls to bomb the concentration camps, although factories five miles from Auschwitz were demolished in 1944.Starting from the above of the refusal to bomb the railways to Auschwitz... the SS guards at Auschwitz and other "camps" were all on Rockefeller's payroll... the other factories that were bombed were "competitors" to Rockefeller's... see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260920&viewfull=1#post260920) <--- and this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260553&viewfull=1#post260553) <---

PathWalker

17th April 2013, 14:49

Just wanted to let you know the following:

1. Both my parents were holocaust survivors. With unrelated survival stories (both parents dead by now).
2. Our 12 years old daughter, when was 2.5 or 3 years old. Told her toddler friend holocaust stories, when asked how she now. She said she remember.
3. Three weeks ago, we heard an incredible survivor story. He was 14 at 1944, and was in the death camps and the death march.

We need no proof, it is embedded within our souls.
But of course one can always claim life is the matrix illusion. Or mass hypnosis.

Vitalux

17th April 2013, 15:02

jimmer

17th April 2013, 15:17

Limor Wolf

17th April 2013, 15:22

I arrived at the last stop - Bergen Belsen. Even fifty pages about Bergen Belsen would twll you nothing. We were no longer sent to work but everyone knew that simply being there was a death sentence decreed by the Germans. Typhoid and other sickness were widespread but there were no medications or medical assistance of any kind. No food, no water, or any other fluid to drink. Vermin ate us alive; we had not washed ourselvs since Janurary. I believe this is enough for today.

I ask for only one thing - your help to get me out of here. I have had enough of this blood drenched countery and I must get away from these barbarians. It was a terribly costly experience for me. However, life must go on. But it can not continue here.

My warm regards and kisses to you and all our relatives. I expect to hear from you soon.

Your Cousin

He titled his memories- 'So that your generations shall know',

Best,

Limor Wolf

There is nothing in that letter about a Holocaust or gassing of human beings.

You are reading something into that letter that simply does not exist. Perhaps your desire to believe is stronger than your desire to really know the truth.

Most of the world was sucked in by the Jewish Holocaust Hoax. It has already been proven by scientist that no Jews were gassed at Auschwitz.

Believe whatever you wish, propaganda goes pretty deep.

Hi Vitalux,

I must admit I find your words insulting and highly incosiderate. The amount of time we spent with people who survived this atrocities, the amount of evidence that is extracted from first hand testimonies might not be something that is worth to waste on someone who is not ready to listen.

My Mother's father Alexander Wolf was cremated in gas chmbers in Auscwits, by the testimony of someone who was there and knew him. He gave his last piece of bread to someone else who had more chances than him.
Out of 13 siblings my grandmother was left with only three. My mother had to hide with a catholic family in a village that were paid to keep her under false identity from the age of 1 yrs old till she was five years old, and never grew with a father.

As I say, I find your above statments highly insensitive and do no justice to your beautiful Avatar.
To say it more blatntly,You add an insult to injury, what you do is no 'investigation', my friend, it is more like pouring hot oil on the heads of the wounded

Peace and good energies to you

Limor

Vitalux

17th April 2013, 15:24

this last post is from a person called 'vitalux'
from '3rd Dimension physical universe Milky-way.'
certainly a most trusted source to disavow documented,
recorded history. pretty rude and pretty crude.

Thank you ...jimmer

I guess this Bishop is just as rude and crude as well

Not a single Jew died in a gas chamber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsrPt-enplw

Limor Wolf

17th April 2013, 15:33

Vitalux, you are incredibly rude and incredibly wrong, but, suppose that there was something in your words..
You seem to prefer 'truth telling' (your own individual truth, that is..) on giving even one drop of sympathy or empathy towards other members who lost their loved ones. I do rate truth very high above else, but I rate empathy even higher. And this is where you lost the battle, my friend.

Vitalux

17th April 2013, 15:38

As I say, I find your above statments highly insensitive and do no justice to your beautiful Avatar.
To say it more blatntly,You add an insult to injury, what you do is no 'investigation', my friend, it is more like pouring hot oil on the heads of the wounded

Peace and good energies to you

Limor

So what it boils down to, is anyone that does not agree with you is automatically insulting you.

It was not my intention to insult anyone, I am sorry if you get offended when people have a different opinion than yours. :ohwell:

Love for all

:grouphug:

Love

Limor Wolf

17th April 2013, 15:48

greybeard

17th April 2013, 15:53

I am amazed that this subject keeps coming up.
Its not an opinion but a fact.
My grandfather had black and white photographs of the Jewish inmates of concentration camps standing over pits, filled with dead bodies, waiting to be shot and then dumped in the pits.
The people were skin and bone--- death would have been welcome I think.
I was only about 6 at the time.
My parents were horrified that I was shown the pictures and that was the last visit to my grand fathers, though later he was allowed to come to our house.
He had a drink problem but stopped soon after that.
I dont think he meant any harm but wanted to educate me.
Chris

onawah

17th April 2013, 16:08

The posts by Vitalux, who has long been on my ignore list, may not be against the rules of Avalon, but they are certainly inimical to the spirit.

Hervé

17th April 2013, 16:27

Thank you Chris,

See, your grandfather's facts were that they were shot into a pit... not gassed and cremated... that's where most of the "propaganda" lies... to deflect from who these prisoners were truly "working" to death for, at very little cost to, and large benefits for, the "owners."

Please, all...

... do read these two posts in order to get an idea of the bigger picture that was going on behind the scene:

this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260920&viewfull=1#post260920) <---

and this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260553&viewfull=1#post260553) <---

Rockefeller had a stranglehold on Stalin, Hitler and FDR (which Dwight Eisenhower (http://projectavalon.net/wiki/Dwight_Eisenhower) never digested since he warned against the "Military-Industrial Complex" and I suspect that Rothschild had his own stranglehold on Churchill).

Then one would be more able to understand the article posted by Makow (post # 752 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12633-A-look-beneath-the-Holocaust-Propaganda-...&p=662634&viewfull=1#post662634)).

Laurel

17th April 2013, 16:44

Certainly not, I rarely get ofended by ignorance, rather more look at it in a neutral way, our world after all contain many types of energies.

Your 'facts', However are wrong, and I find it diffcult to tolerate a very unbased 'research' in a respectable place like Avalon. I hope I am not the only one. Cheers, Limor

Limor, you are not the only one. :hug:

Many Avalon members have FAMILY members who have been exterminated in the holocaust death camps. This is a FACT.

(And Vitalux's comments are no less insulting and upsetting than child abuse comments were to certain members on the Bill B thread)

william r sanford72

17th April 2013, 16:59

just found myself reading a whole lotta border line anti jew stuff and now im wondering why i even botherd.surprised to find this type of talk...with people being so awake and all.shame..im of welsh decent and by my last name alone..can be traced to crest and bloodlines..gee glad im not jewish..so am i safe??..or part of a bigger lie??

Muzz

17th April 2013, 17:06

It takes a bit of time do deprogram yourself from a life time of holocaust brain washing.
From my independent, and through research, the holocaust was indeed a hoax.

I don't fault those who still believe it, they just either have their blinders on, http://a1-images.myspacecdn.com/images03/35/e6ba07e5105a43d1a80d81eec54bf517/lrg.jpg

or have not yet reviewed all the facts including those showing it was a hoax.

Just to be clear, when you say its a hoax do you mean nothing happened or are you referring to certain aspects of the event?

When many people have family and friends who have been affected by these events it's understandable that feelings may run high so its important that you are clear in what you are saying.

It's also helpful if you stick to discussing the facts in a given topic to put your point across rather than accusing other members of being blinkered.

Vitalux

17th April 2013, 18:02

Just to be clear, when you say its a hoax do you mean nothing happened or are you referring to certain aspects of the event?

just certain aspects of it.

I use the illustration to try to convey that many do not see all the information, but rather what they cherry pick to believe.

Like Jordan Maxwell stated in his videos, "people only hear and see what they wish to believe, and the last thing they want to know is the truth".

I understand this is an emotional issue for many, and like all emotions, when emotions get highly charged, the objectivity gets lost.

It has already been demonstrated by experts in chemical engineering and gas chamber design that the events reported by the media at Auschwitz was false.
There already exists in this thread ample information to demonstrate that information.

However, like many people that question or try and talk and search for truth, they continually find themselves bulled, character assassination and ridiculed by those that attack anyone that questions the current Paradigm/ belief system regardless of what truth the messenger brings.

:bored:

Sierra

17th April 2013, 18:19

greybeard

17th April 2013, 18:24

By saying that the Holocaust was a hoax it appears that the implication is that no Jews were massacred.
That is just absolutely untrue.
The Powers that be love conspiracy web sites as some people looking for the untruth/conspiracy in everything tend to find exactly that untruth and then declare they have found truth.
They have been mislead.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
When words are written down we are programmed to believe that's the truth.
A scientist must be right--no they have an agenda too quite often---the agenda is "Im right"
Scientists disagree.

As the saying goes "Who ever wins the war gets to write the history book."
The photographs I saw were a genuine record of what happened at that moment in time.

Chris

Muzz

17th April 2013, 18:49

lunaflare

17th April 2013, 20:44

I found the comments by the Bishop (you-tube clip on previous page) interesting. He is not, "anti-Semite", but one who chooses to consider current research -based on empirical evidence- that questions the prevailing paradigm. He looks at research that reveals that there were no gas-chambers. He talks of cyanide gas escaping and the improbability of such a device being used or effective.
I say to question the current paradigm or the story fed by the Media is in the spirit of Avalon.
I would need to do further research, of course, to come to my own personal viewpoint. But I have an open mind.
Threads such as these are HOT TOPICS that create polarity...like the VEGETARIAN threads...
Why is this so?
Emotions run high. We all have a personal experiences that form and shape our belief systems...that create our reality.
It is not about being insulting as I see it. We have varying perspectives. There is no "truth".

A great number of "Holocaust Movies" are made and released by Hollywood.
The creation of the State of Israel was a carefully crafted plan
I do know movies form and shape the minds of people and that leaders do not necessarily lead for the greatest good of "the people".
Also, who are the Jews exactly (David Icke explains this illusion well)
And why was the state of Israel created????
These are the questions.
Problem. Reaction. Solution.
I would venture to say the holocaust story was enhanced by varying media to achieve this objective.
And as many have stated many suffered and were brutally killed: gypsies, homosexuals, Russians, mentally impaired.
This time was also a focus on gene extraction (as I understand it) and ET involvement.
We humans have a long and shameful history of extreme cruelty to one another.
I do not understand why this is so. It is horrifying to me and I do know people who have the "number tattoo" marked on their wrist. Guilt and Shame and Fear are great controllers. These emotions are used to control, repress and dumb down the infinite spirit...

I'll wrap up now.

TargeT

17th April 2013, 20:50

PathWalker

17th April 2013, 22:38

I personally know 2 people who survived the death camps with tattooed numbers into their hands.
They can and do testify about the death camps the with industrial killing.

BTW these death camps are still going on for commercial organ harvesting in China.

Hervé

17th April 2013, 23:55

It comes down to a communication problem that's been created and exacerbated by the media use of labels to categorize individuals into specific bins like "conspiracy theorists" or "preppers" or "patriots," etc... hence misdirecting people's emotions onto the wrong targets.

The "propaganda" pulled the blanket over to the "benefit" of one, singled out ethno-cultural group and to the detriment and disregard of all the other groups that were ignored and deemed unworthy of any mention in the official history books although equally "holocausted," so to speak.

Had the Gypsies written their oral tradition into a "Good Book" to be followed to the letter by their "priests," they might have managed to pull said blanket over to them...

Pondering over that last paragraph, one may cease to wonder where that quasi automatic trust into the printed word as a honest-to-God truth, which the printed media benefited from, is coming from? As in "It's in the paper, so it must be true..."

Unfortunately for the Gypsies, the only "Good Book" that's used as a script by the controllers' "priests" is the Bible... otherwise, the Gypsies might have had some portion of Egypt or India reclaimed in their name by the controllers and for the same purpose of a sole one world government and religion with the entire planet full of "Gadge" -- instead of "Goy" or... sheeple? -- as their dominion.

Instead, they are stealthily genocided like the Native Americans -North, Central and South -- or the natives of a conquered land... planet... solar system... solar systems cluster... galaxies... universe... etc...

The Truth Is In There

18th April 2013, 12:18

i think people who haven't read at least some revisionist literature and especially those who refuse to read anything that might shatter their worldview should not discuss this issue at all. many people get emotional if they see pictures of corpses and are being told that these are "nazi victims" or hear some fabricated horror stories and tend to believe everything without using at least some common sense. the emotions deactivated that.

on the other hand, nobody seems to care about the hundreds of thousands of civilian victims, women and children, in the german cities that have been bombed to ruins. the germans fought a war against the military. the british, right from the start, and later the americans, fought a war against the german people. churchill and roosevelt hated the germans and wanted to eliminate as many of them as possible. not relocating them elsewhere as hitler's plans were for the jews, no, just kill all of them. for this the term holocaust would be applicable. their preferential targets were not military facilities but large cities. that shows the anti-human nature of the zionist controllers. this is documented and they freely admit it because they can.

this war against the german people has been hidden behind the exaggerated jewish holocaust propaganda because the zionists needed a reason to create their nation of israel and find some countries to pay for it - the "losers" of ww2. they control(led) the governments of the allied countries, they financed bolshevism, own(ed) all media where their propaganda has been repeated to death and last but not least they're in bed with the freemasons who control that which is not directly controlled by the zionists, pyramid-style.

they financed the rising national socialism as a counterweight to the bolsheviks but when hitler came to power it turned out he had his own plans and merely used their money, never intending to be controlled, thus germany under hitler had become a threat to their nwo and that's why it had to be destroyed, and why after the war this massive "reeducation" of the population was done. now the germans are always the perpetrators and the jews are always the victims. who gives a **** about historical correctness. "by their fruits you shall know them" and now, after 70 years we see the fruits of great zion everywhere. the people of the world deserve what they get for their treason against humanity, for supporting "god's chosen race" who see all but their own as sub-human.

TargeT

18th April 2013, 12:41

Pondering over that last paragraph, one may cease to wonder where that quasi automatic trust into the printed word as a honest-to-God truth, which the printed media benefited from, is coming from? As in "It's in the paper, so it must be true..."

Seems to me it is based in our public teaching methods (based on the "classical trivium", plato's work and theories on "steering a society" etc..) we have been taught circular logic our entire lives, we use written word or "paper" as the proof of facts without fact checking. This phenomenon is seen all the time on forums like this where people will read a thing, and believe it as truth, then we base arguments on what we read (but never checked) and refer back to the un checked material as proof of their believe with sort of a "they wouldn't have printed it if it wasn't true" mentality.

This method makes human very "sheepish" to authority figures or people who "put out" information, IE News, Governments Etc... we have been carefully lead to this thinking method for this easily lead out come.

this isn't as off topic as it seems, it relates to the "holocaust" situation very closely.

Vitalux

18th April 2013, 14:42

One of the speakers that I found most interesting on the subject of the holocaust is David Irving.
I would suggest that anyone wishing to gain some great insight into the events surrounding the propaganda and false stories told during the second world is to view some of the many youtube videos of
David Irving.

I am not sure if this video has been posted, however I have watched it and found it helps shed some awareness.

One thing he talks about is how

"images of bull dozers pushing bodies in germany into mass graves, that the drivers of those machines are Englishmen and the major cause of death was by typhoid and other sicknesses.
Many of those victims it can be argued died as a result of English and Allied bombing of Germany causing a loss of food and supplies to the concentration camps."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMYAjyW1OFU

This Man David Irving, I totally admire. Very Much like Jordan Maxwell, he is not afraid to stand up and talk about how propaganda shaped our minds about WW2.

It is my hope that some will watch the video and increase their awareness.
Beats watching television :eyebrows:

edit

video corrected.

Akasha

18th April 2013, 19:51

My Mother's father Alexander Wolf was cremated in gas chmbers in Auscwits, by the testimony of someone who was there and knew him.

Limor, I don't mean any disrespect and I don't think that anyone on this thread will deny that European Jews were treated terribly during WW II, but I'm struggling to make sense of your sentence as quoted above.

Vitalux

18th April 2013, 21:26

jimmer

18th April 2013, 21:36

good for all avalonians that stand against the insipid hatred, miscommunications
and conspiracies spread within this thread.
we may never convert those who believe these nasty lies,
but that doesn't mean the rest of us need to sit by and let it go, again.

PathWalker

18th April 2013, 21:43

The posts by Vitalux, who has long been on my ignore list, may not be against the rules of Avalon, but they are certainly inimical to the spirit.

I am sorry you feel that way.:(
All I have for you, as well as all other living things, is absolute love.
No matter how much you experience ill will to me, I will always love you.

Just a reminder that a sense of love is craving for being together, in service, or in union.
My current experience from Vitalux, is more on the side of confrontation. In the name of the truth.

When one graduate the "truth" anger/rage phase. There is spiritual realization that we are not victims (for the zionist or nazi dogma). The good/bad drama is just another drama.
It take courage and integrity to reach this level of realization. The prize is freedom and sovereignty. The price is 100% responsibility.

onawah

20th April 2013, 05:16

I think the Jewish people have been unfairly vilified for being very vocal about what they have suffered as a race.
There have been many other holocausts in human history which have not received as much attention.
But they should have, and the fact that they did not is something which should not be used against the Jewish people to silence them.
The more the madness is decried, the better.

Zinn Education Project
https://www.facebook.com/ZinnEducationProject

On April 19, 1943, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising began when Nazi forces attempted to clear out the Jewish ghetto in Warsaw, Poland, to send them to concentration camps. The Germans were met by gunfire from Jewish resistance fighters who held off the Nazis for 28 days before Warsaw was demolished and they were sent to concentration camps. How might history have changed if other countries had come to their aid? Photo: These two women were members of the Jewish resistance. On right is Malka Zdrojewicz who survived the Majdanek extermination camp.
Credit: Meczenstwo Walka, Zaglada Zydów Polsce 1939-1945. Poland. No. 463. Song: "I Remember Warsaw" by David Rovics: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=759567 More images: http://bit.ly/10490R5
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/11900_10151397137174677_1401303282_n.jpg

Vitalux

20th April 2013, 06:03

I think the Jewish people have been unfairly vilified for being very vocal about what they have suffered as a race.

Let me give you an example of how we are being manipulated and exploited by people who would present their notions as true when in point of fact have no factual basis at all.

Here in the Talmud "In the book of the Talmud" in Gittin
Gittin 57B says this" "quote"

"Four Billion Jews were killed by Romans in the city of Bethar"

in 58a

The Malmud says quote" That sixteen million children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans"

The thing we have to ask ourselves is How important is it for us to really know the truth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViHnSZ2sWZE

Yes it looks like historically the Jews seem to have quite a history of repeated exaggerated holocaust. :confused:
Most of the world is becoming aware and waking up to this.

ThePythonicCow

20th April 2013, 08:38

Yes it looks like historically the Jews seem to have quite a history of repeated exaggerated holocaust. :confused:
Most of the world is becoming aware and waking up to this.
I sense that the conversation of which this thread is an example has gotten wedged in an unhealthy corner.

I have full confidence that whatever is the official story of any historically significant event is yet another damned Big Lie.

I have full confidence that some seriously nasty sh*t went down in the Nazi labor/death/concentration/prison/internment/whatever camps during the Second World War (and that some seriously nasty sh*t has gone down and continues to go down in other places and times, even now.)

However to present just one side of the case or the other is of no particular benefit that I can see. To present evidence, quite possibly good evidence, that what happened in those camps is not what our officially recognized history books tells us happened, can end up sounding as if one is calling out Jews for having a problem of "repeatedly exaggerating a holocaust." That would be an unfortunate implication. For one thing, I seriously doubt that it is any ordinary race, religion or culture of people's on this planet who are doing the most serious exaggerations or the greatest evils against humanity and other life on this planet. For another thing, whatever did go down might well have been just as evil, give or take, as what the official story tells us went down ... but just different ... in order to cover up some other stuff and in order to keep us ordinary people confused, clueless, weak, fearful, and fighting amongst ourselves.

My personal hunch is that the concentration camps were more slave labor camps than genocide camps, though inciting racial hatreds was certainly (and remains certainly) one of the more reliable tools of the tyrannical bastards in power, and knowing that your relative was worked to death rather than killed outright is little solace. But that's all a secondary topic compared to the main point I wish to make in this post.

My main point is to ask that we all back off from viewing this controversy as one between (1) the official holocaust version of history versus (2) some race, religion or culture who are exaggerating their suffering ... again.

Such a divisive view of history and of our circumstances serves well only the tyrannical bastards in power, and insults a great many people who have personal knowledge that whatever be the truth, it's not that.

We can work together, as honest and freedom loving people of diverse races, religions and cultures, with caring, integrity and intelligence, to toss aside the tyrannical bastards who have stood astride humanity like the Colossus of Rhodes for many thousands of years. But letting ourselves get wedged into conversations such as I see on this thread is not the way to get there.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/seven-wonder-ancient-world-11.jpg

Cidersomerset

20th April 2013, 11:56

The Truth Is In There

20th April 2013, 12:26

at least on project avalon one can discuss this topic openly, even if one's opinion does not conform to the "commonly accepted" version of history. that's much appreciated. on german message boards i'd have been banned already for the few things i posted and i'm reluctant to say "too much".

thankfully, more and more people are waking up and want to know the truth, although it could mean the overthrowing of long-standing convictions in regard to the german role pre and during ww2 and the role of hitler in all this (happy birthday, btw). they need to be pointed in the right direction. once a truth-loving person starts to unravel the lies he or she will inevitably start to see this part of history in a new light.

the books of david irving are certainly very objective accounts, especially for an englishman, and, i believe, mostly correct. "adolf hitler - führer und reichskanzler" gives a good overview about the period of 1933-45 and the most reviled (unfairly) person in history, even though it includes some mistakes, such as hitler's alleged suicide. since many are familiar with the works of joseph farrell, peter levenda and others regarding the nazis i think it would be a good idea for everyone to balance the thoroughly anti-german viewpoint (they want to sell books, after all) with some objective bits and pieces from authors who care more about truth than remaining within the borders of the "official hiSTORY", the STORY the victors fabricated.

The Truth Is In There

20th April 2013, 12:42

There has been several threads about this and as Paul has just said it is time to put a line thru it. I have read & watched a lot
about history and WW11 in particular and I have no doubt multi millions were killed all around the world and many in concentration
camps initially worked to death & shot until it was costing to much in bullets and time and then the final solution which is
being discussed. The big question is if they were not killed.Where did all the pre war Jews go ? only a handful went to Palestine.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51483-The-End-of-Days-The-Truth-Hour-George-Green.....&p=577705&viewfull=1#post577705

actually most people in german concentration camps were well provided for, as long as the allies hadn't started bombing the supply lines and camps themselves. comparably few people died in the camps in the first three years, and most of them through diseases which were hard to keep under control everywhere (that's what zyklon b was for - for delousing to prevent typhus outbreaks). it only got out of hand in the last year of the war due to diseases and lack of food (which was a problem everywhere at the time). this is well documented by the red cross. on the other hand countless people were deliberately killed in russian gulags or the concentration camps in various other countries. as with everything else, double standards are applied here as well. fact is that germany needed these people as workforce and it would have helped nobody to let them starve or treat them badly.

"the final solution" was the relocation of the jews out of germany or, ideally, europe, not genocide. this was invented after the war, like many other myths.

plenty of jews went to russia because no country in europe wanted them. others went to palestine, the usa and other countries. the official figures have been manipulated until they fit the official story. much of this has been documented as well. i don't recall the name of the auther atm but there's at least one very detailed book about this whole relocation issue that is based on historical records.

PathWalker

20th April 2013, 12:45

Vitalux

20th April 2013, 12:54

Cidersomerset

20th April 2013, 13:24

Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
There has been several threads about this and as Paul has just said it is time to
put a line thru it. I have read & watched a lotabout history and WW11 in particular and I have no doubt multi millions were killed all around the world and many in concentration camps initially worked to death & shot until it was costing to much in bullets and time and then the final solution which isbeing discussed. The big question is if they were not killed.Where did all the pre war Jews go ? only a handful went to Palestine.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post577705
actually most people in german concentration camps were well provided for, as long as the allies hadn't started bombing the supply lines and camps themselves. comparably few people died in the camps in the first three years, and most of them through diseases which were hard to keep under control everywhere (that's what zyklon b was for - for delousing to prevent typhus outbreaks). it only got out of hand in the last year of the war due to diseases and lack of food (which was a problem everywhere at the time). this is well documented by the red cross. on the other hand countless people were deliberately killed in russian gulags or the concentration camps in various other countries. as with everything else, double standards are applied here as well. fact is that germany needed these people as workforce and it would have helped nobody to let them starve or treat them badly.

"the final solution" was the relocation of the jews out of germany or, ideally, europe, not genocide. this was invented after the war, like many other myths.

plenty of jews went to russia because no country in europe wanted them. others went to palestine, the usa and other countries. the official figures have been manipulated until they fit the official story. much of this has been documented as well. i don't recall the name of the auther atm but there's at least one very detailed book about this whole relocation issue that is based on historical records.

Now I can only answer this with another answer from the other threads and there
are several more threads on here I have responded to. You must admit without
Hitler WW11 would not have happened as it did.Sure atrocities were happening in
Soviet Russia in the goulags and the Japanese were killing many in China and
wider war may have happened later in the Far east, but the 'Banksters' who finance
most wars gave Hitler the green light to use the war machine he had created in the
1930's to use.

Re: "The End of Days" The Truth Hour - George Green.....

Hi I 'm not sure where you are going with this , There is no doubt the Nazi party
gained power in Germany and got all the people back to work by rearming the
military, building rds and infrastructure, financed by the 'Banksters' as all countries
are , and have been for centuries, by backing both sides in a conflict international
bankers cover themselves .Obviously the losing side usually pays war reperations
and its local bankingsystem is usually bankrupted to pay for it. As Germanys was
was after WW1, which also contributed towards the conditions enabling Hitler to
lead them into yet another conflict.

The Hawks in Germany , not neccessarily the Generals but Hitler, Himler, Goering
and the inner cliche after rebuilding their forces from 1933 onwards, sent a
expaditionary force the condor legion to help Franco and the Fascists win the
Spanish civil war and it was mainly German planes responcible for much of the
bombing of Spanish cities including the flattening of Guernica. It was during this
period Hitler admired by many in Europe, GB & the US. Realised the rest of Europe
had not the stomach for a repeat of the carnage of WW1 , which both Hitler &
Goering served in. Over the next few years Hitler called the French/British bluff and
remiliterised the Rhineland which was demiliterised as a buffer after WW1.

The French & British protested and did nothing. Emboldened they took over Austria
in a bloodless drive in take over. Bullied the Czechs to surrender the Sudatenland,
then the Czech republic which was seperated from Slovakia.They also negotiated a
none agression pact with the USSR and formed the Axis of steel with Italy and
Japan.Next they invaded Poland via Danzig with a false flag act dressing German
soldiers in Polish uniforms and attacking German border posts for the news
camaras.By invading Poland this brought France into the war as they had a pact
with Poland. This inturn brought Britain into the conflict as they had a pact France.

Within the year Germany had overrun, Poland,Norway,Denmark, France. Belguim,
Holland and Luxenburg and had come to a draw withthe UK after The Battle of
Britain Air battles. Hitler realising he could not get his army across the channel ,
like Napoleon before him turned his attention to the USSR , This is where he made
several vital mistakes.instead of going straight away he lost a couple of months
invading Yugoslavia and Greece, Which cost him dearly when his tired troops
reached the out skirts of Moscow at the onset of the severe Russian winter where
unprepared for change more troops suffered from exsposure than Soviet bullets.If
Hitler had not been side tracked Moscow must surely have fallen in the debacle of
the first year on the eastern front, when the Soviet armies were in dissaray.

The other big mistake he made imo is only sending Rommel to North Afrika to help
the Italians with 3 divisions of troops & tanks a handfull that were at Hitlers
disposal.If he had sent two or three more to North Africa, the suez canel would
have been lost.Good job for us he did not. Just like letting the BEF escape from
Dunkirk, when it was surrounded with tanks on the outskirts. Another odd decision,

Its at this point Japan enters the war by bombing Pearl Harbour and invading the
Philipines , Hong Kong, Malaya and other parts of South east Asia and the Pacific.
Germany and Italy also declare war on the US and they join the allies.......I could
go onto the end of the war. Of course there are many more details .I have many
books and watched many documentries on WW11 and used to read several pages a
night of the massive Day by day history of WWII. So it is a interrest of mine.

Now all this was learnt before the days of the net and i am fully aware history is
written by the winners, and no doubt many atrocities were commited by all side in
the heat of battle and the immiediate aftermath. The Marmady massacre is a
famous one commited against American troops during the battle of the Bulge and 50
or so British prisoners were killed by SS troops early in the war after they
surrendered. The same happened to French, German, Italian, Chinese, Japenese
and troops from most armies involved. The Eastern front was much worse and
many attrocities are recorded especially on civilians and partisans. Many Russian
pow's were killed and mistreated by the German army and visa versa especially
at the end of the war as the Soviets took their revenge.

What I have not come across is that German prisoners were killed on mass in US,
French, UK prisoner of war camps. Some SS troops were harshly treated and there
must have been some anomosity, but apart from SS guards some of which were
killed in the liberation of camps.I have not come across mass killings of German
prisoners.I have seen some articles , and there were reports of summery
justiceand killing of SS prisoners , but not what George was referring to that the
photos of piled up concentration corpses were German soldiers not camp inmates.

http://www.netplaces.com/world-war-i...ers-of-war.htm

An article about German prisoner abuse after the war, again uncorroberated, but
no doubt some truth to it. Germany had drawn slave labour from all over Europe
and murdered millions of them so retribution probably happened.

http://www.exulanten.com/germanPOWs.html

At the end of the day you could say Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the biggest of all
war crimes or saved 100.000's of allied troops if the had to invade Japan. No one
really knows how many Soldiers and civiliens died during WW11 its been estimated
at 60 million and for what ?? Making the corporations and Banksters rich and
freedom ! to serve the elites until the next time !

PathWalker

20th April 2013, 14:12

Let me give you an example of how we are being manipulated and exploited by people who would present their notions as true when in point of fact have no factual basis at all.

Here in the Talmud "In the book of the Talmud" in Gittin
Gittin 57B says this" "quote"

"Four Billion Jews were killed by Romans in the city of Bethar"

in 58a

The Malmud says quote" That sixteen million children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans"

The thing we have to ask ourselves is How important is it for us to really know the truth?

Since your (Vitalux) messages are are so hateful to the exploiting, crooks, horrendous Jews. I truly suggest you inspect your family lineage. I am quite confident you have some Jewish origin.
Since we know form Jewish history that the worst Jew haters were Jews themselves (even Hitler and Eichman, had Jewish blood).

What we hate and aggravate us the most is an aspect self reflection.

My fellow Avalonian

I have no quarrel with you or anyone, and I am very sorry you feel I am attacking.

Point of fact is that every single word that you quoted above are direct quotes from Jordan Maxwell video that I provided.

Watch the Youtube video and you will see that it is a direct quote.

Therefore, if you have a problem with that information, you might seek out Jordan Maxwell and attack him.

I am a Jordan Maxwell Fan :cheer2:

I wish to clarify 2 concepts:

1. Jordan Maxwel and the Jews. Jordan claims in few videos, including the project Camelot interview that, the Jesuits run the world. The Jews, the Banksters, the world powers are all run by the Jesuits. And the reptilians are operating the Jesuits.
Saying that. If Vitalux was a real fan of Jordan Maxwel. Then he would go the full yard and explain who really is on the top of the pecking order.

2. Quoting someone and saying I just quote him is evading the responsibility for what you want to say.
For example if I quote the KKK declaration, then I say it is just the KKK not me but I sympathies with them.

This thread is full of hate and distorted half informations, all in order to confuse/divert the reader from the real pecking order.
This is a clearly a diversion disinfo operation, with classic divert, divide and conquer.
I hope the discern reader can identify the information sources and their agenda.

PathWalker

20th April 2013, 14:45

Vitalux

20th April 2013, 21:48

One Third Of The Holocaust

I watched this documentary a few years ago and found it quite fascinating.

Grab a coffee and make yourself comfortable it is about 4 hours long.

The most wonderful part about living in Canada is that we have freedom to view information, think for ourselves and to reach our own determination of things without being subjected to character assassination or bullied :rant: when we try and express our views or question anything. Much the same way I appreciate things here as a member of Avalon.:tea:

However, I also respect and can appreciate that different regions of the world have difference cultural differences and expression and flow of ideas is not always the same as here in Canada.:canada:

My intention is not to push my beliefs over others but to just exchange in a free flow of ideas.

When I look at the summit of my understanding, this dimension is just an illusion, a kind of fertile field of dreams, experience and paradoxes.
I thank Source for the experience of learning.

I thank and love all life that have joined in this experience as well.

For the greatest thing I have discovered is the expansion of awareness, not the shackling of it.:ballchain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNOBtsg9eQQ&playnext=1&list=PLFF57AB0811FAEBAB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm_vLutppRc

The above is an interview with the scientist that reported that no Jews were gassed during the holocaust.

Interesting to watch, all three parts. Above is part 1 of 3

PathWalker

20th April 2013, 22:15

The above is an interview with the scientist that reported that no Jews were gassed during the holocaust.

Interesting to watch, all three parts. Above is part 1 of 3

Very interesting, my grandfather was listed in the Auschwitz exterminated Hungarian Jews list (1 among 600,000 people, just one).
I hope he was not gassed nor cremated, and the scientist can find his remains.

I assume all the documents about the Hungarian Jews are fabricated. Especially the German documents.

As for Science , it is another control system as well as any other religion.

There is only one refutable science which is mathematics.
The rest are just a make belief games. Since no scientist observes the pure science philosophy, because scientists are humans with emotions and agendas. Working for a grant.
I wonder who sponsors the scholar scientist above.

PS
My grandmother, uncle and grand uncle (grandfather brother) are also listed the exterminated Hungarian Jews list.

karelia

20th April 2013, 22:41

<snip>
I assume all the documents about the Hungarian Jews are fabricated. Especially the German documents.

Hi PathWalker,

Do you have any links or images of those German documents?

Thanks.

PathWalker

20th April 2013, 22:57

<snip>
I assume all the documents about the Hungarian Jews are fabricated. Especially the German documents.

Hi PathWalker,

Do you have any links or images of those German documents?

Thanks.

The documents are stored in microfiche rolls.
I do not know if they are online. But one can read about them in the Jewish holocaust museum in Yad-VaShem here (http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/resources/index.asp).

The Truth Is In There

21st April 2013, 11:35

Now I can only answer this with another answer from the other threads and there
are several more threads on here I have responded to. You must admit without
Hitler WW11 would not have happened as it did.Sure atrocities were happening in
Soviet Russia in the goulags and the Japanese were killing many in China and
wider war may have happened later in the Far east, but the 'Banksters' who finance
most wars gave Hitler the green light to use the war machine he had created in the
1930's to use.

without hitler, ww2 may not have happened, but without churchill and stalin ww2 may not have happened either. hitler made about two dozen attempts to negotiate and thus prevent a war. the english refused every time because they wanted a war with germany.

what hitler wanted was to at least get territories back that were taken from germany after ww1, that historically belonged to germany anyway and that still had mostly german population. also, he knew that russia was a threat and had to be dealt with or europe would have been overrun by the russian army soon after germany's preemptive strike. all this is documented.

both hitler and stalin desired the lands to the east (h) and west (s) respectively and so a war would have happened anyway. that it turned into a world war and not just a regional conflict was because the zionist backers of the british and u.s. governemts wanted to take germany out of the equation once and for all. it almost worked after ww1 but unless they knew the future they couldn't have anticipated a man like hitler and what he was capable of, that he would single-handedly change the course of history (and he did because the reich is still undefeated. only the wehrmacht capitulated in 1945 as we know. they are still out there and many of the "UFOs" are of german origin). in the history of this world only great souls have ever managed such a feat - avatars, as the hindus would call such humans.

it is pointless to speculate what could have been if germany had won the war but hitler's accomplishments for his people until 1940 are far beyond those of any other recent leader of any country in the world. germany under hitler was bound for greatness.

the people of germany realized that here was a leader who truly cared for his people, who wanted the best for them, not a puppet controlled by the banking system and large corporations as it is common nowadays. under hitler people did not get poisoned through their food, water, air or pharmaceutics, brainwashed by the media and morally degenerated. they were not robbed of their hard earned money, quite the opposite. everyone got work, was well paid for and got recognition for doing a good job, no matter what that job was.

the reason why over 90% of the population voted for hitler, why they loved him, was because he was good for germany, and given the chance, would have started the golden age right there and then, in germany 80 years ago. the seeds were there and they had to be destroyed by the zionist rulers, just as we see today on a smaller scale with countries like libya or iran. this is what people will realize after they cut through all the crap that has been heaped on hitler since 1945. the reality is that humanity killed their messiah once again.

PathWalker

21st April 2013, 13:15

the people of germany realized that here was a leader who truly cared for his people, who wanted the best for them, not a puppet controlled by the banking system and large corporations as it is common nowadays. under hitler people did not get poisoned through their food, water, air or pharmaceutics, brainwashed by the media and morally degenerated. they were not robbed of their hard earned money, quite the opposite. everyone got work, was well paid for and got recognition for doing a good job, no matter what that job was.

the reason why over 90% of the population voted for hitler, why they loved him, was because he was good for germany, and given the chance, would have started the golden age right there and then, in germany 80 years ago. the seeds were there and they had to be destroyed by the zionist rulers, just as we see today on a smaller scale with countries like libya or iran. this is what people will realize after they cut through all the crap that has been heaped on hitler since 1945. the reality is that humanity killed their messiah once again.

Excellent propaganda post.

Few things to remember.
1. Hitler was good for those who served the nation.
The crippled, mentally ill, socialist, Gipsy , Jewish, dissidents, homosexual where exterminated. The people lived in constant fear, and they liked it, they never complained (those who dare were eliminated). Remember the fear is better then hunger. People in the SSSR also lived in fear but there was no hunger.
2. Dachau (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp) extermination camp was erected in 1933 for German dissidents.
3. War end in Europe, liberated 17 million forced labor (slaves) prisoners on German soil (almost 1/3 of German population that time).
4. In 1945 the vermacht conscripted boys from age 13 and older, and elders age 50-60. The male population was almost wiped out ~5 milions. Most of the remaining German males were SS. A German generation was wiped. That was genetically cleansing the Arien race, part of the final solution (of course the Jewish made that happen, just because the world fought back).

Cidersomerset

21st April 2013, 13:17

without hitler, ww2 may not have happened, but without churchill and stalin ww2 may not have happened either. hitler made about two dozen attempts to negotiate and thus prevent a war. the english refused every time because they wanted a war with germany.

Sj7b7ufh9tQ

That's not true Prime Minister Chamberlain went to Munich and got an agreement
from Hitler he would stop his aggression after his denouncement of the Versaille
Treaty signed at the end of WW1.True Churchill was against it, because he knew
Hitler smelt blood. Hitler knew Britain & France did not want war and he had already
took over Austria , militarised the Rhine and was about to annex the Sudetenland
and the Czech republic. Hitler was on course for war against many of his generals
advise.

wKA-lhWFbsE

Churchill did not become prime minister for almost a year after the war had
started. Hitler & Stalin agreed the carve up of Poland as part of their non
aggression pact with each other.The Germans had close links with the soviets
between the wars ....

it is pointless to speculate what could have been if germany had won the war but hitler's accomplishments for his people until 1940 are far beyond those of any other recent leader of any country in the world. germany under hitler was bound for greatness.

Hitler was responsible for the death/murder of millions of his own fellow Austrians ,
Germans and all the others in Europe he was responsible for their early graves.
Sure many others are to blame as well as the war commenced, he may have been
charismatic to begin with but Hitler was a 'EVIL' man !!!!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II

Hervé

21st April 2013, 15:06

[...]

... People in the SSSR also lived in fear but there was no hunger.

[...]

That wasn't Rockefeller's plan (see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260920&viewfull=1#post260920) <--- and this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260553&viewfull=1#post260553) <---)... ever heard of "Holodomor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)"?

aikisaw

21st April 2013, 17:30

pathwalker
This thread is full of hate and distorted half informations, all in order to confuse/divert the reader from the real pecking order.
This is a clearly a diversion disinfo operation, with classic divert, divide and conquer.
I hope the discern reader can identify the information sources and their agenda.

I agree with you. You are providing most of the hate and distortions.

The information sources should be any that confirm the ongoing propaganda narrative is that it?
Nothing new to learn here. Nope just they way it was told to you as a kid.

Do not ask any questions you will offend those who's forefathers died in the camps..
We can't have that. The Germans were blind, loyal, beaten, maniacs.....that is ok to believe.....just do not offend anyone who had family die in the camps ....that is bad.

When you look at the newsreel footage of Germany before the war the people looked.....HAPPY... Hard to think that they went from that to rabid blind loyal maniacs.
But they did ...right...so it is ok to firebomb the country, rape the women after the war, throw them out of their houses.. starve the German soldiers to death.....http://www.whale.to/b/bacque1.html ..they DESERVED IT....right

What about the people who had family die in the war, are they allowed to ask questions? Questions outside of the garbage we have been fed since the 1950's? What/who did they die for?

Hitler was such an evil maniac he let the British army go at Dunkirk. Hated Jews so much he helped to set them up in Palestine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

Is wiki one of those corrupt sources?

When you start to pull on the strings in this propaganda it comes apart. If you are honest about it. At the very least this info and thread need to be discussed and debated for all sides.

The people who were in the camps are not the only ones affected. It has been hanging over all of our heads.
The truth needs to be told.

It was mentioned up the thread that this has been implanted on our dna. That makes sense to me. It has made an imprint on all of us. Why would we not seek to release this from our dna, pysche, our consciousness for those that were there and those that come after us.

Vitalux

21st April 2013, 19:03

Let me give you an example of how we are being manipulated and exploited by people who would present their notions as true when in point of fact have no factual basis at all.

Here in the Talmud "In the book of the Talmud" in Gittin
Gittin 57B says this" "quote"

"Four Billion Jews were killed by Romans in the city of Bethar"

As for being manipulated and disinformative by Vitalux .
Here is the Talmudic quote. BTW I do not regard religious scriptures as historic evidence. The talmud is full of fables and arguments.

http://daf-yomi.com/DafYomi_Page.aspx?vt=2&id=2562

אדריינוס קיסר שהרג באלכסנדריא של מצרים ששים רבוא על ששים רבוא כפלים כיוצאי מצרים קול יעקב זה אספסיינוס קיסר שהרג בכרך ביתר ארבע מאות רבוא ואמרי לה ארבעת אלפים רבוא
Here is the google translate for this passage:

Emperor Hadrian Egypt's Allachssandria killed sixty Arbua the Arbua doubly reluctant voice of Jacob from Egypt that Vespasian Caesar who killed more volume four hundred Arbua and tell her four thousand Arbua
Arbua=ריבוא=ten thousand
The context of this Talmudic passage is in the discussion/argument who suffered more from Roman occupation (there was no official census at that time). As if who has the better moral right.

I find the usage of this passage by the scholar Vitalux to back fire.
If the honorable Vitalux wish to find pure Jewish self hatred passages in the Talmud I can show you as well.

I wish to thank you for bringing this to my attention Pathwalker. :tea:

I have followed the teaching of Jordan Maxwell for some time so I at first took his words just on blind faith.
However, after further research I again just find information that confirms what he has stated.

Here is my source documents that I am reading from. It does appears that the information in my posting was correct, as far I am can determine.

See below:

'The voice of Jacob': this is the cry caused by the Emperor Vespasian12 who killed in the city of Bethar four hundred thousand myriads (http://www.halakhah.com/gittin/gittin_57.html#PARTb),
source : http://www.halakhah.com/gittin/gittin_57.html#PARTb

:ohwell:

Myriad (Ancient Greek: μύριος, μυριάδες) (myrios, plural myriades), "numberless, countless, infinite", is a classical Greek word for the number 10,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad).

source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad
(Myriad = 10 0000)

:ohwell:

Doing the math : 400, 000 x 10, 000 = 4 000,000,000

The math appears to work out to 4 Billion. :attention:

Vitalux

22nd April 2013, 01:25

However, like many people that question or try and talk and search for truth, they continually find themselves bulled, character assassination and ridiculed by those that attack anyone that questions the current Paradigm/ belief system regardless of what truth the messenger brings.

:bored:

Threads such as these are HOT TOPICS that create polarity...like the VEGETARIAN threads...
Why is this so?
Emotions run high. We all have a personal experiences that form and shape our belief systems...that create our reality.
.

This topic and it's responses always remind me of another... (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.&highlight=mind)

I think that you could perhaps say the holocaust was a "hoax" but that it would be much more accurate to say "greatly exagerated" or " event used to manipulate & shape group thought" Where's Lord Sid when you need him?!

The more horrific tragic things happend in Russia really, but Zionism isn't built on a russian orthidox religion.

I disagree :nono:, it was a hoax. To try and play semantics as far as I am concerned is diversion where we try and wash away the truth by finding political correctness.

Make no mistake about it.
A hoax is a hoax.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoax)

A hoax is a deliberately fabricated falsehood made to masquerade as truth.
A Hoax was perpetrated by a system of false propaganda of lies and deceptions targeted at convincing the people of the world to believe that 6 Million Jews were gassed to death in concentration camps.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nCr11lVOtds/SBYnnqqeOTI/AAAAAAAAAhY/pRK1S5PBI9k/s200/yomsoa01.jpg

This falsifying of history of a holocaust of Jews is now shown to be empirically completely false.
Those governments involved in this deception appears to be a deliberate act of fraud.

If you go fishing and you catch a small fish and then lie and publicize you caught a big fish, that is an exaggeration. :bigfish:

But if you publicize that you caught 6 million fish, when you did not catch a single fish, that is a hoax.:meeting:

Sierra

14th May 2013, 22:16

This thread is closed.

ThePythonicCow

18th February 2014, 16:25

This thread is closed.
At the request of one of our forum's members, I am reopening this thread.

Perhaps the better parts of this important discussion can continue onward.

TargeT

18th February 2014, 16:27

Good move paul, this topic should be explored, social stigma should not stop any discussion when it comes to fact finding.

aikisaw

17th November 2014, 03:45

This is good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66h53k-Beu0

161803398

17th November 2014, 04:43

http://www.gmwatch.org/gm-firms/11153-bayer-a-history

Bayer AG is a chemical and pharmaceutical giant founded in Barmen, Germany in 1863 by Friedrich Bayer and his partner, Johann Friedrich Weskott. Today it has its headquarters in Leverkusen, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. It trademarked acetylsalicylic acid as aspirin in 1899. It also trademarked heroin a year earlier, then marketed it world-wide for decades as a cough medicine for children "without side-effects", despite the well known dangers of addiction.

During the First World War, Bayer turned its attention to the manufacture of chemical weapons including chlorine gas, which was used to horrendous effect in the trenches. It also built up a "School for Chemical Warfare". During this time Bayer formed a close relationship with other German chemical firms, including BASF and Hoechst. This relationship was formalised in 1925 when Bayer was one of the chemical companies that merged to form the massive German conglomerate Interessengemeinschaft Farben or IG Farben, for short. It was the largest single company in Germanyand itbecame the single largest donor to Hitler's election campaign. After Hitler came to power, IG Farben worked in close collaboration with the Nazis, becoming the largest profiteer from the Second World War. Amongst much else, IG Farbenproducedall the explosives for the Germanmilitary and systematically looted the chemical industries ofoccupied Europe. It's been described asthe Nazis' "industrial jackal" following in the wake of Hitler's armies.

During the Second World War, IG Farben used slave labour in many of its factories and mines and by 1944 more than 83,000 forced labourers and death camp inmates had been put to work in the IG Farben camp at Auschwitz in Nazi-occupied Poland. Auschwitz was a vast labour and death camp where more human beings were put to death than were killed in the whole of World War I. It was comprised by 3 main camps: Auschwitz I, a concentration camp; Auschwitz II (Birkenau), an extermination camp in which by 1944 some 6,000 people a day were being killed; and Auschwitz III, which supplied slave labour for the nearby IG Farben plant (Buna-Werke, also known as IG Auschwitz).

IG Farben's Auschwitz plant was a massive industrial complex. The largest outside of Germany, it consumed as much electricity as the entire city of Berlin. Built and run by slave labour, it is thought - at a conservative estimate - to have cost at least 35,000 lives. In 1941, Otto Armbrust, the IG Farben board member responsible for IG Farben's Auschwitz project, told his colleagues, "our new friendship with the SS is a blessing. We have determined all measures integrating the concentration camps to benefit our company." But not only did thousands of slave labourersdie from the conditions in which they worked for IG Farben, those camp inmates who were viewed astoo sick or weak to continue to labour in the IG Auschwitz plant were selectedfor the gas chambers. IG Farben paid 100,000 reichsmarks each year to the SS and in return was assured a continuous supply of fresh slave labour, while being "relieved" of unfit inmates.

Elie Wiesel, the writer, Nobel Laureate and Holocaust survivor, came to Auschwitz in 1944 and was sent with his father to IG Farben's Buna work camp. That same year, the Holocaust survivor and author Primo Levi was among 125 men selected at the railhead for labour at IG's Buna-Werke. One of only 3 survivors from this group, Levi later wrote about his experiences in searing detail: "A fortnight after my arrival there I already had the prescribed hunger, that chronic hunger unknown to free men... On the back of my feet I already have those numb sores that will not heal. I push wagons, I work with a shovel, I turn rotten in the rain, I shiver in the wind, already my own body is no longer mine: my belly is swollen, my limbs emaciated." In Night, Elie Wiesel's acclaimed memoir of his personal experiences of the Holocaust, he describes how veterans of IG's Buna-Werke told those who had arrived there late in the war that the brutal treatment they were experiencing was as nothing to what had previously been endured by the IG work force: "No water, no blankets, less soup and bread. At night we slept almost naked and the temperature was 30 below. We were collecting corpses by the hundreds every day... Work was very hard... [The gangmasters] had orders to kill a certain number of prisoners every day; and every week selection [for the gas chambers] - a merciless selection."

When it came to "selection", it was an IG Farben subsidiary, with IG Farben managers on its Management Committee, that manufactured and supplied Zyklon B to the SS. This poisonous cyanide-based pesticide, on which IG Farben held the patent, was used during the Holocaust to annihilate more than a million people at both the Auschwitz-Birkenau and Majdanek extermination camps. The form of Zyklon B used in the gas chambers was deliberately made without the normal warning odorant. IG Farben also supplied the SS with the Methanol used to burn the corpses.

In 1946 the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal concluded that without IG Farben the Second World War would simply not have been possible. The Chief Prosecutor, Telford Taylor, warned: "These companies, not the lunatic Nazi fanatics, are the main war criminals. If the guilt of these criminals is not brought to daylight and if they are not punished, they will pose a much greater threat to the future peace of the world than Hitler if he were still alive." Their indictment stated that due to the activities of IG Farben "the life and happiness of all peoples in the world were adversely affected."Chargesas graveas fomenting war and killing slave labourers were alsoadded. In his opening statement the Nuremberg Chief Prosecutor pointed out that, "The indictment accuses these men of major responsibility for visiting upon mankind the most searing and catastrophic war inhuman history. It accuses them of wholesale enslavement, plunder and murder."

According to the Nuremberg prosecutors, "We have seen Farben integrating itself with the Nazi tyranny, turning its technical genius to the furnishing of... commodities vital to the reconstruction of the German war machine, and emerging in Hermann Goering's entourage at the highest level of economic planning and mobilization for war. We have seen Farben poised for the kill, and subsequently swollen by economic conquest in the helpless occupied countries. Faced with a shortage of workers, we have seen Farben turn to Goering and Himmler, and persuading these worthies to marshal the legions of concentration-camp inmates as tools of the Farben war machine. We have seen these wretched workers dying by the thousands, some on the Farben construction site, many more in the Auschwitz gas chambers after Farben had drained the vitality from their miserable bodies... Literally millions of people were put to death in the very backyard of one of Farben's pet projects - a project in which Farben invested 600 million reichsmarks of its own money."

Although the Nuremberg Tribunal indicted 24 IG Farben board members and executives on the basis of crimes against humanity, only 13 received prison sentences. And the sentences they received were described by the Nuremberg Chief Prosecutoras "light enough to pleasea chicken thief". Bythe early 1950sa number of those convicted of slavery, looting and mass murder were backat the helm ofthe very companies - Bayer, Hoechstand BASF, formed out of the assets of IG Farben in 1952.The owners of these "new" companies were alsothe shareholders of IG Farben. Thus, although the gravity of the crimes committed by IG Farben meant the company was considered too corrupt to be allowed to continue to exist, it was supplanted by its key constituents - companies like Bayer which were owned, and directed at the highest level, by the very same people as IG Farben. Those who had helped Hitler to power and provided the technical know-how for his wars of aggression and the Holocaust, were back in control of the industry.

The Bayer executive Fritz ter Meer typifies the bounce back. An executive of IG for many years, the most senior scientist on its supervisory board and the chairman of its technical committee, he had become a Nazi Party member in 1937 and was the executive responsible for the construction of the IG Farben factory in Auschwitz, in which tens of thousands of slave labourers met their deaths. Ter Meer'sown visits to Auschwitz and the detailed reports he received made it inconceivable that he did not have a clear picture of what was occurring. The Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal found him guilty ofplunder, slavery and mass murder. As a result, Ter Meer received the longest sentence of any of the IG Farben board members.But despitebeing found the most culpable of the men who, in the words of Chief Prosecutor, "made war possible... the magicians who made the fantasies of Mein Kampf come true", ter Meer was already outof prisonby 1952. By 1956 he had become the chairman of the supervisory board of Bayer, a post he held until 1964. Even today Bayer continues to honour this convicted mass murderer. On All Saints Day 2006, for instance, the corporation is known to have laid a wreath on ter Meer's grave in Krefeld-Uerdingen, Germany. Yet for decades Bayer refused to pay compensation to its surviving slave labourers. Only after international protests did it eventually agree to pay damages - more than 50 years after the end of the war.

Bayer continued to grow in the post-war period, eventually becoming bigger than the whole of IG Farben evenat its zenith. Even as part of IG Farben, Bayer had maintained its strength in pharmaceuticals. In fact, scientific experiments had been done specifically on behalf of Bayer in Auschwitz and other concentration camps. IG had footed the bill for the research of Josef Mengele, Auschwitz-Birkenau's infamous "Angel of Death", and some of his experiments utilised germs and pharmaceuticals provided by Bayer. Wilhelm Mann, whose father had headed Bayer's pharmaceutical department, wrote as head of IG's powerful pharmaceutical committee to an SS contact at Auschwitz: "I have enclosed the first cheque. Dr Mengele's experiments should, as we both agreed, be pursued. Heil Hitler." IG employee SS major Dr Helmuth Vetter, stationed at Auschwitz, participated in human medical experiments by order of Bayer. Prisoners died as a result of many of these experiments. Vetter was convicted of war crimes in 1947 and was executed in 1949 but Bayer's role only emerged later. In the Auschwitz files correspondence was discovered between the camp commander and Bayer. It dealt with the sale of 150 female prisoners for experimental purposes and involved haggling over the price. One exchange notes: "The experiments were performed. All test persons died. We will contact you shortly about a new shipment at the same price." According to testimony bySS physician Dr Hoven during the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal: "It should be generally known, and especially in German scientific circles, that the SS did not have notable scientists at its disposal. It is clear that the experiments in the concentration camps with IG preparations only took place in the interests of the IG, which strived by all means to determine the effectiveness of these preparations. They let the SS deal with the - shall I say - dirty work in the concentration camps. It was not the IG's intention to bring any of this out in the open, but rather to put up a smoke screen around the experiments so that... they could keep any profits to themselves. Not the SS but the IG took the initiative for the concentration camp experiments."

In the post-war years Bayer grew to become the third largest pharmaceutical company in the world. In the mid-1980s Bayer was one of the companies which sold a product called Factor VIII concentrate to treat haemophilia. Factor VIII turned out to be infected with HIV and in the U.S. alone, it infected thousands of haemophiliacs, many of whom died in one of the worst drug-related medical disasters ever. But it was only in 2003 that the New York Times revealed that Bayer had continued producing and selling this infected product to Asia and Latin America after February 1984 when a safe product had become available, in order to save money. Dr. Sidney M. Wolfe, who investigated the scandal, commented, "These are the most incriminating internal pharmaceutical industry documents I have ever seen."

In the early 1990's Bayer is said to have placed patients at risk of potentially fatal infections by failing to disclose crucial safety information during a trial of the antibiotic Ciproxin. Up to 650 people underwent surgery using Ciproxin without doctors being informed that studies (as early as 1989) showed Ciproxin reacted badly with other drugs, seriously impairing its ability to kill bacteria.

In 2001 Bayer had to recall its anti-cholesterol drug Baycol/Lipobay, which was subsequently linked to over 100 deaths and 1,600 injuries. Germany's health minister accused Bayer of sitting on research documenting Baycol's lethal side-effects for nearly two months before the government in Berlin was informed.

It is thought to have been partly in response to the impact of the Baycol scandal that Bayer bought the rival crop sciences unit of French company Aventis, which had absorbed part of Hoechst, in October 2001. Bayer CropScience was formed in 2002 when Bayer AG acquired Aventis CropScience and fused it with their own agrochemicals division (Bayer Pflanzenschutz or "Crop Protection"). The Belgian biotech company Plant Genetic Systems, also became part of Bayervia the acquisition of Aventis CropScience.

Today Bayer CropScience is one of Bayer's core business divisions, which include:

Bayer HealthCare: drugs, medical devices and diagnotic equipment;
Bayer MaterialScience AG: polymers and plastics;
Bayer CropScience: GM crops and agro-chemicals.

Bayer is the world's leading pesticide manufacturer and the world's seventh largest seed company. Bayer CropScience is responsible for the majority of GM field trials in European countries. Bayer's GM crops are mostly "Liberty Link" - designed to be resistant to its "Liberty" herbicide. Liberty is a trade name for Bayer's glufosinate weedkiller. Together with Monsanto's Roundup Ready crops, Bayer's Liberty Link crops are one of the two main types of GM herbicide resistant crops, but glufosinate is a controversial herbicide. In January 2009, the European Parliament voted to ban pesticides classified as carcinogenic, mutagenic or toxic to reproduction. As a result the permit for glufosinate will not be renewed. A European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) evaluation states that glufosinate poses a high risk to mammals. It is classified as reprotoxic, because of research evidence that it can cause premature birth, intra-uterine death and abortions in rats. Japanese studies show that the substance can also hamper the development and activity of the human brain. Bayer's systemic insecticide Imidacloprid, sold in some countries under the name Gaucho, and Clothianidin, have also proven highly controversial as they are widely believed to have contributed significantly to bee deaths. There have been calls for these neonicotinoids to be withdrawn as seed dressings for crops that might affect bees, or even for a complete ban on their use. In May 2008 German authorities blamed Clothianidin for the deaths of millions of honeybees, and the German Federal Office of Consumer Protection and Food Safety (BVL) suspended the registration for eight pesticide seed treatment products, including Clothianidin and Imidacloprid, on maize and rape.

In 2008, Bayer CropScience was at the centre of a hugecontroversy in the aftermath ofan explosion at one ofits U.S. pesticide production facilities. A U.S. Congressional investigation found faulty safety systems, significant shortcomings with the emergency procedures and a lack of employee training hadled to the explosion which killed two employees. The region apparentlynarrowly escaped a catastrophe that could have surpassed the 1984 Bhopal disaster. According to the Congressional investigation: "Evidence obtained by the committee demonstrates that Bayer engaged in a campaign of secrecy by withholding critical information from local, county and state emergency responders; by restricting the use of information provided to federal investigators; by undermining news outlets and citizen groups concerned about the dangers posed by Bayer's activities; and by providing inaccurate and misleading information to the public." Bayer CropSciencewere found to have deliberatelyremoved and destroyed evidence after the chemical explosion

BayerCropSciencehas been involved in a large number of controversies related to GM crops, perhaps most notably the contamination in 2006of much of the US long-grain rice supply by Bayer's unapproved Liberty Link GM rice. This caused the U.S. rice industry's worst ever crisis with:

over 40% of US rice exports negatively affected
multiple federal lawsuits filed
trade with the 25-nation EU at a standstill
other countries banning US long-grain rice imports
many other countries requiring testing of all imports of U.S. rice
some markets for medium- and short-grain rice being affected
another unapproved Bayer GM rice (LL62) also being detected in U.S. rice supplies
US rice farmers being warned they would never again be able to validly describe their crop as "GM-free".

Tellingly, a key factor in the sale of Aventis CropScience to Bayer was a similar crisis involving GMmaize.The Starlink fiasco started when in October 2000 traces of an Aventis GMmaize (corn) called StarLink showed up inthe food supplyin the U.S. even though it only had approval foranimal feeds or industrial use. Starlinkwas not approved for human consumptionbecause the Environmental Protection Agency couldn't rule out the possibility that humans would beallergic to it. The agency's approvalhad beenconditional on Aventis's agreement to keep Starlink from being eaten by humans.

The Starlink fiasco eventuallyled to a massive recall of over 300 U.S. food brands due to the enormousscale of the contamination. ABC News reported in late November 2000, "In Iowa, StarLink corn represented 1 percent of the total [maize] crop, only 1 percent. It has tainted 50 percent of the harvest."The 'StarLink' gene also showed up unexpectedly in a second company'smaize and in USmaize exports.United Press International reported, "Aventis CropScience Wednesday was at a loss to explain why another variety of corn besides its StarLink brand is producing the [StarLink] Cry9C protein."U.S.maize exports to big buyerswere badly hurt. Federal officials blamed the unauthorized appearance of geneticially engineeredmaize in the food supply solely on its manufacturer.

karelia

28th November 2014, 18:56

Interesting article looking at the science involving the popular claims:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/26/the-holocaust-narrative-politics-trumps-science/

transiten

28th November 2014, 20:31

This is good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66h53k-Beu0

Excuse me but what is this supposed to mean? I just browsed the thread quickly and found this...suppose it's irony:confused:

aikisaw

29th November 2014, 00:03

Interesting article looking at the science involving the popular claims:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/26/the-holocaust-narrative-politics-trumps-science/

What happens when a distinguished historian of science with with multiple degrees including one from Cambridge dares to tell the scientific truth about zyclon-B and it's use as a delousing agent in the camps during WW2 ? If you guessed he was admired by his peers and offered countless grants to continue his research....you would be wrong.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/26/the-holocaust-narrative-politics-trumps-science/

He lost his position at University College London, which he had held for 15 years, where university officials did not bother to extend the opportunity of a rebuttal before they sacked him.

That Nicholas Kollerstrom was booted from his post at University College, London—and without any hearing or opportunity to present his defense, where the truth of his observations, one might have thought, would have made a difference—is one of a large number of indications that Origin of the myth of the 6,000,000even our best academic institutions and societies are not capable of dealing objectively with the history of World War II. Indeed, it struck me like a bolt of lightning out of the blue when, during a talk by Gilad Atzmon in Madison, Wisconsin, about Jewish identity politics, I realized that the Holocaust mythology benefits Zionism and the government of Israel by playing, in the promotion of its political agenda, upon a Western sense of guilt for the death of 6,000,000 Jews during World War II.

As an illustration of the depths of depravity of those who would uphold the myth, consider that, as an historian of science, Kollerstrom was invited to contribute three entries—including that on Sir Isaac Newton, which is the most important—to the Biographical Encyclopedia of Astronomers (2007), which has more than 1550 entries by some 400 authors from 40 countries. Yet Noel M. Swerdlow of the University of Chicago, a reviewer for Isis, the journal of America’s History of Science Society, recommended that the book be sent back to the publisher and BEAcoverpulped because Kollerstrom had been involved in research on the Holocaust! This was such an outrage that I wrote to the editorial board of Isis, which allowed a Letter to the Editor to appear

What could be in this research which would cause such a reaction?

No subject generates responses as extreme and irrational as what has come to be known as “the Holocaust”. Unlike any other event in human history, including even the most sacred religious beliefs, for anyone to question, dispute or deny its occurrence qualifies as “a hate crime,” where Holocaust denial is even a prosecutable offense in certain jurisdictions. Unlike any other, this crime involves the expression of forbidden thoughts about a subject that has become taboo.

The underlying desideratum is whether history is supposed to be accurate and true or, as Voltaire has put it, be merely “a pack of lies the living play upon the dead”. Just so we know what we are talking about: In its broadest outlines, “the Holocaust” can be defined by means of its three 236 references before Nurembergprimary elements, which I shall designate here as hypotheses (h1), (h2) and (h3):

(h1) that Hitler was attempting to exterminate the Jews and succeeded by putting around 6,000,000 to death;

(h2) that many of those deaths were brought about by the use of cyanide gas in chambers for that purpose; and,

(h3) that the chemical agent that brought about those deaths was Zykon B, to which the victims were subjected.

The science of the Holocaust does not leave any room for doubt about (h2) and (h3), insofar as the laws of biochemistry and of materials science—laws which cannot be violated and cannot be changed—entail that the bodies of those who are put to death using cyanide turn pink, while the walls of chambers used for that purpose would turn blue. But none of the bodies from those camps has been reported to have been pink; and empirical examination of the “gas chambers” has determined that, unlike the walls of the delousing chambers, none of them turned blue. Which means that (h2) and (h3) are not simply false but have been scientifically refuted.

As Nicholas Kollerstrom documents in this astonishing and brilliant book, the science of the Holocaust is this “cut and dried”. To the extent to which the Holocaust narrative depends on (h2) and (h3), therefore, it cannot be sustained. The questions that remain about (h1) are a bit more complex but appear to be equally contrived. There are more than 236 references to 6,000,000 Jews who are either in acute distress or about to be assailed in the newspapers of the world prior to the Nuremberg Tribunal— the first of which appeared in 1890. The number seems to have no basis in fact but to have theological origins—from a disputed passage in Leviticus—as to how many Jews must perish before they can return to “The Promised Land”.

Recently released records (ICRC)To the extent to which the number of Jews who died in the camps can be objectively determined, the most reliable numbers appear to come from the records of the International Committee of the Red Cross, which visited the camps and kept meticulous records of the identities of those who died and their cause of death. Not one is reported to have been put to death in gas chambers, and the total it reported in 1993 for all of the camps was 296,081 combined. Even rounding up to an even 600,000 victims—gypsies, Jews and the mentally and physically infirm—the empirical evidence thus contradicts the contention that 6,000,000 Jews were put to death and thereby falsifies hypothesis (h1).

Why lie about this?

So, insofar as we depend upon empirical evidence and laws of science, the Holocaust story appears to be false and cannot be sustained. The question that therefore arises is how the Nuremberg Tribunal—widely cited as a paragon of intellectual integrity and of the application of moral principles to historical events—could possibly have produced such a highly misleading account of crucial events at the conclusion of World War II. The answer to this, I believe, has been provided by Robert Faurisson in his paper “Against Hollywoodism, Revisionism,” who explains the daunting task confronting the Allies to conceal or justify war crimes that they had committed in winning the war.[2]

Effects of Allied Bombing

The Allies’ systematic and massive destruction of German cities not only brought about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of German civilians but also interdicted the railroad lines that would have re-supplied those camps, which were located near major industrial plants and whose inmates were providing labor to run them. It would have been poor business practice to exterminate the work force, but the large number of deaths from starvation because the Third Reich could not re-supply them provided an opportunity to deflect responsibility from the Allies onto Germany, which the Allies seized. A Hollywood director was brought in and shot 80,000 feet of film at the camps, where 6,000 feet (7.5% of the total) was used to shift the blame for those deaths onto Nazi Germany, which was an easy sell, all things considered.

As Kollerstrom explains, Zyklon B was used at the labor camps, not as a method of extermination but for the sake of maintaining hygiene among the inmates. Typhus and dysentery were omnipresent problems, where Zyklon B was applied in copious quantities—but as a disinfestant, not as an agent for bringing about the deaths of millions of inmates. And in response to the color pink-and-blue findings, an alternative explanation has been given that they were killed using diesel exhaust fumes, but unlike carbon monoxide, diesel exhaust fumes bring about nausea and severe headaches but usually do not bring about death by asphyxiation

I will expand on this idea a little.

The Allies were not just covering up what went on during the war, they were covering up what they did to the German people after the war.

Make sure you want you want to know, before reading any further. It is dark, and you most likely have not heard any of this before.

Here Jonas E. Alexis reviews the book Hellstorm by Thomas Goodrich

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/10/15/rape-and-sex-in-german-cities-after-world-war-ii-revisited-part-ii/

Wednesday, October 15th, 2014 | Posted by Jonas E. Alexis
Rape and Sex in German Cities After World War II Revisited (Part II)

“The women were raped, not once or twice but ten, twenty, thirty and a hundred times, and it was all the same to the Russians whether they raped mere children or old women.”[1]

…by Jonas E. Alexis

We have documented in the past that rape was the most obvious form of revenge against the Germans. The fact is that things were a lot worse than one would ever have imagined.

One witness acknowledged,

“The Russians were coming and going the whole time and they kept eyeing us greedily. The nights were dreadful because we were never safe for a moment.

“The women were raped, not once or twice but ten, twenty, thirty and a hundred times, and it was all the same to the Russians whether they raped mere children or old women.

“The youngest victim in the row houses where we lived was ten years of age and the oldest one was over seventy. . . . I am sure that wild and hungry animals would not have behaved any differently.”

Then this moving account by a young girl:

“When we were lying in bed at night we kept hearing steps coming up the stairs. . . . They beat on the door with their rifle-butts, until it was opened. Without any consideration for my mother and aunt, who had to get out of bed, we were raped by the Russians, who always held a machine pistol in one hand.

“They lay in bed with their dirty boots on, until the next lot came. As there was no light, everything was done by pocket torches, and we did not even know what the beasts looked like.”[3]
Thomas Goodrich

As we shall see, this is not an isolated case. How would you feel if your entire family was literally raped in public, in churches, around the clock, and in broad daylight—sometimes right in front of you?

One priest declared,

“The girls, women and nuns were raped incessantly for hours on end, the soldiers standing in queues, the officers at the head of the queues, in front of their victims.

“During the first night many of the nuns and women were raped as many as fifty times. Some of the nuns who resisted with all their strength were shot, others were ill-treated in a dreadful manner until they were too exhausted to offer any resistance.

“The Russians knocked them down, kicked them, beat them on the head and in the face with the butt-end of their revolvers and rifles, until they finally collapsed and in this unconscious condition became the helpless victims of brutish passion, which was so inhuman as to be inconceivable.

“The same dreadful scenes were enacted in the hospitals, homes for the aged, and other such institutions. Even nuns who were seventy and eighty years old and were ill and bedridden were raped and ill-treated by these barbarians.”[9]

In a diary of a Catholic priest from Klosterbrueck, we read:

Again, raping innocent civilians happened in nearly all the major cities of Germany. Goodrich writes,

“Soon after the fall of Danzig, hundreds of women and girls pleaded with an officer for protection. The Russian pointed to a Catholic cathedral.

“After the females were safely inside, the officer yelled to his men, motioned to the church, and with bells ringing and organ pipes roaring the horror continued all night. Some women inside were raped more than thirty times.

“‘They even violated eight-year-old girls and shot boys who tried to shield their mothers,’ groaned a priest.”

“Some women and children were assaulted ten, twenty, even thirty times a night and for a female to be ravished one hundred times a week was not uncommon. ‘One could hardly any longer call it raping . . . ,’ a victim moaned.”[17]

If you are upset about what you have read so far, fasten your seat belt. By the way, the Russians did go down to the beastly level. One priest from Rosenberg declared,

he historical evidence is now clear: it is ludicrous to apply the adjective “unique” to “Nazi Holocaust.” German civilians had to endure a lot worse.

We certainly have been hoodwinked by the Holocaust establishment and the Zionist narrative, but there is hope. And Goodrich’s Hellstorm is certainly a superb material in this ideological war precisely because Goodrich plays by the historical rules.[26] He documents,

“Old men who had feebly tried to protect their wives, daughters and granddaughters, were themselves knocked down, then sawed in half or chopped to bits.

“A group of over fifty French POWs and Polish workers who had instinctively stepped in to protect the people were likewise castrated and killed.”[27]

Because of these atrocities, many of the well-known places in Germany quickly became vacant. Citing a physician with the army by the name of Lt. Heinrich Amberger, Goodrich writes, “Neither in Nemmersdorf nor in the other places did I find a single living German civilian.” Amberger previously declared,

“On the road through Nemmersdorf, near the bridge . . . I saw where a whole trek of refugees had been rolled over by Russian tanks; not only the wagons and teams, but also a goodly number of civilians, mostly women and children. . . .

“[They] had been squashed flat by the tanks. At the edge of the road and in the farm yards lay quantities of corpses of civilians who evidently . . . had been murdered systematically.”[28]

Another witness recounted,

“In the farmyard further down the road stood a cart, to which four naked women were nailed through their hands in a cruciform position. . . . Beyond . . . stood a barn and to each of its two doors a naked woman was nailed through the hands, in a crucified posture.

“In the dwellings we found a total of seventy-two women, including children, and one old man, 74, all dead . . . all murdered in a bestial manner, except only a few who had bullet holes in their necks. Some babies had their heads bashed in.

“In one room we found a woman, 84 years old, sitting on a sofa . . . half of whose head had been sheared off with an ax or a spade.”[29]

There is much more at both links. The one Karelia posted as well as the Jonas Alexis link.

Gatita

29th November 2014, 01:08

The mention of Bayer, Baycol, and Ciproxin caught my eye. I was working in retail pharmacy when Baycol was pulled. A lot of our customers were on that medication. I had a horrible allergic reaction to Cipro. Pharmaceutical companies tend to be more interested in the dollar than in safe patient care. They still push doctors to prescribe newer, costlier drugs, and find ways to get the patent protection extended to keep things from going generic.

Cat

aikisaw

29th November 2014, 11:19

transiten
Excuse me but what is this supposed to mean? I just browsed the thread quickly and found this...suppose it's irony

It was not meant to be ironic. There has been a recent awakening at the most, and search for the truth, at the least for what really occurred during this time in history.

If you want a quick outline of what this thread has been about read the link Karelia just provided.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11...rumps-science/

There certainly has been more discussed here than what is covered in that link, but it is a start.

PathWalker

29th November 2014, 23:05

This thread is closed.
At the request of one of our forum's members, I am reopening this thread.

Perhaps the better parts of this important discussion can continue onward.

When reading this post, it triggered me to places I do not want to experience any more. I had to face extreme emotional issues. I suggested my self to take a meditation before responding.

I found healing and comfort with self reflection, compassion and forgiveness.

Three issues I had to workout:
1. Trust in PA spirit and its guidelines.
I witnessed more then once, how PA guidelines are flexed and modified to support an agenda. After all this is Bill's place. We are his guests, and he makes the rules as he find suitable to the situation. Many parents (me included) bend the family rules from time to time, for a 'special' occasion (like bed time). There are later ramification to this bending (going late to school).
My lesson here, is to let go my belief in the game rules. Actually the rules are written as we go. By the current mod, his/her personality and inclinations. I accept being a guest and focusing on my intent in PA membership.
The experience I wish to attract into my reality is spiritual growth and personal empowerment, then what the hell I am doing in this thread. Probably I need a reflection and some extra drama. My way to heal an extra drama is to let it go. Release the intense emotion, trust in the flow. Things will take care for themselves, I am not here to mend the world. Just myself.
I witnessed more then one miracle happens in PA, with/despite the mods intervention. Maybe there is a greater good that will evolve from this thread beyond my perspective, or mod's perspective. I learn to trust in the flow and let it go. PA is a place of miracles and empowerment. This personal drama is a personal catalyst for my growth. Healing my pain and anger. And I will leave it at that.

2. Anger, hate and revenge.
I read some sections of this thread not all, but from what I read it was mostly anger, hate and revenge. I appreciate that anger is part of awakening to the truth, I had/having my share as well. But never before ever in PA, I took it personally. That is the main reason I had to meditate about this. What is so different about this thread, to my perception?
I thought maybe my upbringing as 2nd generation to survivors, and having personal relationships with survivors, I am empathic and emotional. No I do not really care about truth distortions. Since the truth is personal experience and adopted perceptions. We humans do not let the facts distract our beliefs. We believe and see what we want. Till we are ready to realize that we are all one. So I let it go.

What triggered me is the hate, I felt personal hate, targeted at me personally. Since I was brought up in Israel, I never experienced such hate. Now I appreciate more the aggressive-defensive psychosis in Israel policy. I have little if at all affinity/support to the state of Israel policies and politics (very much like the USG but smaller scale). But I appreciate better its existence as safe-haven to those like me:israel:.
The positive aspects: I do not live among/next to the haters. The haters do not have to interact with me. Most of the Jews are centered, they are single target easier to destroy with one bomb.
A wise man once joked, Jews are like fertilizer: Spread them around and you improve the crop yield, put them together and they stink ;). That is how its like in Israel.

So how do I deal with the hate? Why do I feel it?
I assume it is soul memory, and it is not personal. Something in one of the posts ringed too familiar to me. Why do I attract this to my reality these days, from the safe place of my home in Israel?
The inner answer was clear, compassion and forgiveness! It is time for me to deal with this painful drama/trauma once again. I will be able to release this drama/trauma only once I am able to have compassion to the haters, and forgiveness to the oppressors (In past life, I was exterminated as well, in the death trains). It is a catalyst wake up call for me to walk my talk, see if I am ready for it.

I know anger is the product of fear (fight, flight or freeze: fight choice --> anger), un-materialized/forbidden anger or failed angry actions produce hate. While experiencing victimhood produce revenge and hate. Well that's interesting but irrelevant. I do not hate nor seek revenge. Yet feel targeted.
The inner answer, is that I did not forgive! Yet.
I have compassion to the haters, I (hopefully) understand their place, I was there more then once. I have compassion to the anger, I am/was there as well.
But forgiveness is an extreme challenge! I know, and live by my belief that life is a virtual game, and it all looks like a drama play beyond the curtains in the after life. Yet this challenge is about overcoming/facing/healing extreme fears and trauma, and I am called to it now.

Eventually it is all very personal to the bone. Each of us personally is called to do his spiritual work alone. With his/her own fears and anger to work it out. As other things clear in my private life, this new drama is coming at me from 2 unrelated synchronous events. So I should be grateful to this thread being a catalyst to my drama healing (yet to come, work in progress).

3. Propaganda.
I know 3 stages of propaganda:
1. People believe and follow the fear/anger messages. Propaganda is most effective (feeding the Archons with fear).
2. People do not believe and react with anger and antagonism. Propaganda is less effective, yet the people are angry and manipulated/controlled (feeding the Archons with anger).
3. People ignore the propaganda. Propaganda is not effective.

Therefore those that are antagonized/angered by the propaganda (no matter what kind of propaganda) are still under its influence. That is one of the major reasons, why I do not engage.
From what I read, there was no real discussion about propaganda, but more of a counter propaganda.
More from the theme of balancing evil with more evil. This is the essence of war, that is how propaganda is successful. And there are those that accept PA the battle zone. I care not.

I better solution to propaganda is to expose the hidden agenda. Assist the angry awakening people, to go beyond their anger. I see a beautiful magnificent timeline ahead of us (see this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76878-Are-we-living-in-the-Positive-Timeline-now&p=899898&viewfull=1#post899898)), and I do not let the facts confuse me;).

Sorry that I did not notice discussion about propaganda (I did not read all the thread), I noticed lots of Neo-Natzi propaganda. Maybe it is just me, that is how I feel. And I trust PA spirits to know and lead to the greater good.

Conclusions:
I know I am on the risk of taking vacation for speaking my heart.
I know also that I had to write this as therapeutic exercise for myself and for readers seeking self empowerment and healing (wrong thread to look!:whistle:). Even in the dark there is light. And the progress catalyst will find us, where we list expect them.

May we all some day be able chose our anger consciously!
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

ulli

30th November 2014, 01:42

People love to lump other people together into groups.
Understandable, since cultures have always had this effect and forever been coercing people into identification, with their nation, with their religion, with their soccer team.

But I like howTerrence MacKenna put it when he said: "Culture is not your friend".
And ancient cultures are riddled with ancient traditions, which no longer work today.
Yet in a proper secular system something does seem to be working, as people can now question the direction their parents used to push them. And so a global culture is slowly emerging, and it may not look too wholesome at this early stage, but it's an avalanche no one can stop. Secular culture is about live and let live.

I was in Haifa, Israel, in 1986, and again in May 2000. Each trip was a Baha'i pilgrimage to the holy shrines at the Baha'i world center, which Baha'is see as the seat of the future world parliament.
And it is important to note that these shrines already existed long before the state of Israel was founded. Many people, especially Muslims, believe that this is a part of a Zionist agenda, but I am certain that this is not the case. The movement is just too small and insignificant at this stage.

Haifa is a beautiful and well kept city where surprisingly many Israelis and Palestinians live together in harmony and even send their kids to the same school.
Much of what the news tell us about Palestinians in Israel is incorrect, and exaggerated. Those who want to keep the blood flowing are inciting hatred whereever they can. However, I know that it is not impossible for everyone to get along. I pray that Jews and Arabs who live in close proximity and even shopping in each others shops will keep their calm during this crazy time. In future the people of Israel will most likely put Netanyahu on trial for the genocide orders he gave. But for now I believe that as a woman I would hate to live under Saudi, Taliban, Shiite, Sunny nor any other form of Islamic system. To me that is a no brainer.

There is another level to Baha'i beliefs, namely that of dreams. Encouraged in the writings to pay attention to our dreams, one night sleeping in my hotel bed in Israel near the shrine of the founder I was shown in the most beautiful imagery how there would be a unification under a vast federal global system, not Illuminati, nor Vatican, nor Islam, nor Fascisn, nor Communism, nor Zionism. Not even the Mafia.
A balance between individual sovereignty and a democratic world government.

I had read about this vision in the scriptures, but never quite seen it illustrated as clearly as my dreams showed me. And even though I dropped out of active Bahai life because I felt the Bahai community was hijacked, I will always hold on to this vision. It is the most brilliant system, and the answer to humanity's problems.

Here at Avalon only Dennis Leahy has come up with something in a similar vein, albeit it's not quite as inclusive, not taking all 195 nations into account.
The Baha'i prophecies say that all these wars will pass away, but may take a long time. The bottom line is this quote from Baha'u'llah:
The world is but one country and mankind its citizens.

The process is slow because it onfolds without force nor coercion, and from within each person, one soul at a time, as it has to be voluntary.
After all, this is a planet of choice.
When people realize that they have a choice in which direction they want their future to unfold and that they need to visualize their idea of a better world, even Utopia, and never again to buy into news media manipulation, not even the alternative media, since they too can easily be infiltrated then much progress will happen.

Each one has a part to play, and the more participate in rising above their hatred, and find the vision, and discover that they are responsible for their government leaders' decisions since they have collectively elected them, the sooner we'll get there.

I'm doing my bit in spreading this message this is all that I can do. We may need to wait until the youth of today wake up, until the old haters have passed away, and a real desire to participate in community building has become real action, then a critical mass will tip the scales. Then they will understand that all governmental elections can only work when campaigns have been abolished, and all voters can write down the names of those they trust the most.
And not to forget...secret ballot. Never tell anyone whom you vote for. No interference in people's sovereign rights...oh.and not to forget...no forced taxation. People's understanding of their responsibility for their world will be such that they will contribute what they decide, knowing that the world they will live in is a result of their collective deeds.
That way they will have their governing councils. No more party politics. Councils and committees.
Local councils, national councils, and one international parliament on top of Mount Carmel in Haifa.
Local and national councils will be up for reflection once a year, and the international council is reelected every five years. As I said, none of this will come about by force. People will gradually realize that all force only begets more violence.

araucaria

30th November 2014, 10:03

I'm doing my bit in spreading this message this is all that I can do. We may need to wait until the youth of today wake up, until the old haters have passed away, and a real desire to participate in community building has become real action, then a critical mass will tip the scales. Then they will understand that all governmental elections can only work when campaigns have been abolished, and all voters can write down the names of those they trust the most.
Thank you for another wonderful post Ulli. I just want to dwell a little on one point. As you say, while things can change very quickly, they are probably going to take a little time. Which means while the haters die off, other like ourselves will likely pass away too, but no matter. We have this overpowering urge/urgency to find a quick fix in our lifetimes, but this urge is itself part of the problem. Since it is all about choosing, then we need to take the time to read the fine print; if we are tempted by an offer that ends today, we are likely being rushed into something we don’t really want and need to sleep on it first.

Shezbeth

30th November 2014, 23:38

Sierra

1st December 2014, 00:31

Chester

1st December 2014, 01:04

And we expect one nation to be pure and blameless lol. Suckers. We're all guilty.

Yes - many folks have been guilty. Not me though. And I suspect I am not alone. My point is that there are people who are capable of such acts and then there are those who are not. Its my opinion that humanity has a problem and the problem should be addressed.

So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.

I must ask though... wasn't the point made by so many posts on this page of this thread all about a massive lie that generations since WW II have accepted such that certain agendas could succeed?

And if so isn't the point here more about waking up? Yet I know this is Avalon and most have woken up to a great deal but still... isn't this what this thread developed into revealing... a big lie that massively effected the world views of billions and thus had massive impact on the course of this planet ever since? Aren't there new readers coming along that may yet not be aware of this obviously massive, world changing lie?

Isn't this important to understanding what the agenda might be? Clearly if there be an agenda of a powerful group amongst humanity to be exercised by using such a massive lie as a catalyst, then should we not care about it? I mean... we are bringing children into this world... should it matter to us the world we hand them?

Shezbeth

1st December 2014, 01:35

Likewise. I fancy horror and torture-porn movies for their shock value, and yet the descriptions in the article I posted are arguably the most graphic I have ever seen/envisioned (and allegedly non-fiction!).

It is not a pleasant subject, and if there are such testimonies re: Africa, the Middle East, etc. that I'm not aware of, I'm all ears. In this case (and thread) however, this is a lie that has been perpetuated since well before I was born and I am still shaking off the propaganda. I find calling the point 'moot' to be a bit premature.

Chester

1st December 2014, 02:20

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/26/the-holocaust-narrative-politics-trumps-science/

In the comments section of the above noted article, I found this one comment which is (for me) quite valid to make - although I have to exclude his last sentence as to take that leap is ridiculous too.

While I don't doubt that history gets rewritten in gross and propagandistic ways, nor really that all history is myth, because no true literal accounting may be compiled outside of narrative, well beyond the reach of idealistic science, or the context of methodical results. But if selective groups of people, particularly Jews, were rounded up and put into camps, that in itself is a crime against humanity. If you want to make your arguments later that Americans should not be rounded up and put into FEMA camps, or wherever, then you need to stand strongly against Germany's rounding up of people in the World War 2 era, and not let that be slighted by some conspiratorial trick of hand. Because even if our historical myths about the camps were grossly falsified for some globalist conspiracy, the fact of internment is in itself the original crime, it being the trunk from which any other evils follow out of its mass forfeiture and incarceration of a people.

Yet then what about the actions of the anonymous "allies" (the supposed good guys when all I see is ALL of them behaving horrifically) - the massive bombing of the populations and then, after victory, the massive crimes against the women of Germany? Sickening. Some from amongst our ancestors mind you... just sickening.

aikisaw

20th December 2014, 09:01

Here's an article that was shared with me this afternoon. I'm not sure if it has been posted already (sorry, feelin' a bit lazy ATM) but it dovetails with the earlier VT article.

CAUTION - GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIVE CONTENT

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/10/15/rape-and-sex-in-german-cities-after-world-war-ii-revisited-part-ii/

Enjoy (ish!) :eek:

Edit: I see that the article is actually above though with some of the more graphic bits omitted,... my bad. Still, if it was missed,....

Gee, the more things change, the more they remain the same. Now India, Africa, and the Middle East are the raping cultures du jour. Oh yeah, the U.S. as well.

Oops, forgot the Illuminatis in Europe, the royals in England, the church in Canada, the US football teams, the college campuses. The servants in Dubai.

Oh shoot, the rampant pedophilism in England... Oh shoot, the rape of Shanghai. Oh shoot, the rape of enlisted personnel in the military.

Doesn't take war to be rapists. It goes on every day. Any excuse will do.

And we expect one nation to be pure and blameless lol. Suckers. We're all guilty.

So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.

Damn, is no place safe? No. There is no safe place. Not on this planet.

Are you guilty?? Why is that? What exactly are you guilty of?

That is the intent of the propaganda. It is designed to make you feel guilty .

My reason for posting the Jonas Alexis article http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/10/15/rape-and-sex-in-german-cities-after-world-war-ii-revisited-part-ii/ was to tell a part of the story which hasn't been told. Thus the thread title. Did you know that went on in Germany post war? I did not.

No it doesn't take war to be rapists but it does take war to have it occur on that massive of a scale.

There is a larger game hidden in the WW2 story on many levels. It is entirely possible the rape of Germany was not an accident, and was done by design. It would not be the first time.

So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.

Rape is a moot point. Do you really believe this? If you do, it would make for a controversial thread. Start one up.

Sierra

20th December 2014, 21:37

So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.

Rape is a moot point. Do you really believe this? If you do, it would make for a controversial thread. Start one up.

Hmmmmm.

MOD HAT OFF:

Warning: Graphic descriptions contained herein, of today's news.

You missed my point entirely. And since I am a woman, who knows rape is not a moot point, that would be a lol... a moot point to discuss. But I'll moot anyway.

My point is that there is mass raping and killing of women going on now, and far worse than anything I have seen in my lifetime or my parent's and grandparent's lifetime.

Thousands of African women AND children (students) are mass kidnapped, held captive, and raped. In war, African women are raped, their breasts are cut off so they can no longer suckle their children (no market to visit for baby formula either, oh well).

Thousands of women per year are raped in India, burned alive, heck they get acid thrown on them if they say no to a date or marriage proposal. (Google "rape statistics in India".)

One in three or four women are getting raped in the U.S.

The rape of Shanghai, Aik, horrific photos available on that atrocity if you like.

In some parts of the world, women are getting ganged raped 30/50 times a day, and dying of it.

At least no one wants to bind my feet (ooh sexy, so helpless) anymore, though my genitals are still not safe in some parts of the world, from cutting and removal with a dirty knife (yes, that leads to death fairly often) and without painkillers. And gosh, since they get "married" so young, the cutting can occur as young as eight or ten. Think about that, the lifetime, no, the multigenerational consequences.

Oh yes, the honor killings, sigh. Lots of those.

And worst of all, The statistics on child raping are equally horrific, and getting worse.

Houston, we have a problem.

Feel free to start a thread why today doesn't matter, might not even be considered controversial, Africa, India, Middle East, so far away, not white, don't matter, gimme a beer, chug chug, pass the ammo I wanna kill myself a cloth-head, a yellow belly, a ******, a chink, oh wait, Syria, Iran, N. Korea... Oh yeah not Lebanon anymore, not Turkey anymore, not Granada, not Libya (uh wait, Libya is back on, I think), not Nicaragua, not El Salvador... Oh I get so sick of division, war, rape, torture, killing. Just sick.

So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.

It is not that rape is a moot point, it is who did what to whom that is a moot point. Everyone is doing everyone at some point in time or another. Let us ask ourselves why. All of us are guilty. Humanity is guilty.

Aik, man is inhumane, and no one has cornered the market on cruelty. No one.

Remember who the enemy is. They are not a moot point.

It is all BS that WE do this. For the masters who run all sides of all war. Whooping and cheering as their coffers fill with blood money.

Really believe this, humph. :violin:

MOD HAT ON

Sierra

aikisaw

21st December 2014, 12:29

My point is that there is mass raping and killing of women going on now, and far worse than anything I have seen in my lifetime or my parent's and grandparent's lifetime.

Is it worse now? Would you, your parents, or grandparents have known about it before the internet age? It is more about we have access to the information now.

Note all sources are Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_India

Thousands of women per year are raped in India, burned alive, heck they get acid thrown on them if they say no to a date or marriage proposal. (Google "rape statistics in India".)

Rape in India is the fourth most common crime against women in India.[1][2] According to the National Crime Records Bureau 2013 annual report, 24,923 rape cases were reported across India in 2012.[3] Out of these, 24,470 were committed by relative or neighbor; in other words, the victim knew the alleged rapist in 98 per cent of the cases.[4] The incidence of reported rapes in India for 2010 were 1.8 per 100,000 people, among the lowest in the world. The US figure for 2010 was 27.3 per 100,000. However, it is estimated that only 1 in 10 rapes in India gets reported, while in the US 46% are reported.[5][6][7]

Note India has one of the lowest numbers in the world. It doesn't excuse the behavior but worth noting due to the world is evil mem.

One in three or four women are getting raped in the U.S.

The rape of Shanghai, Aik, horrific photos available on that atrocity if you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
The Nanking Massacre, also known as the Rape of Nanking, was an episode of mass murder and mass rape committed by Japanese troops against the residents of Nanking (current official spelling: Nanjing) during the Second Sino-Japanese War. The massacre occurred during a six-week period starting from December 13, 1937, the day that the Japanese captured Nanking, which was then the Chinese capital (see Republic of China). During this period, between 40,000 to over 300,000 (estimates vary) Chinese civilians and disarmed combatants were murdered by soldiers of the Imperial Japanese Army.[7][8] Widespread rape and looting also occurred.[9][10] Several of the key perpetrators of the atrocities, at the time labelled as war crimes, were later tried and found guilty at the International Military Tribunal of the Far East and the Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal, and were executed. Another key perpetrator, Prince Asaka, a member of the Imperial Family, escaped prosecution by having earlier been granted immunity by the Allies.

I could mention the Allied fire bombing of Dresden killed 400,000 in three days. The war was essentially over at that time and was a city of no military value. I could also mention the 200,000 combined dead for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Which happened while Japan was trying to surrender.

In some parts of the world, women are getting ganged raped 30/50 times a day, and dying of it.

Yes, this is what was happening in Germany and eastern Europe post WW2 to women. So, I am not supposed to discuss it because it was a long time ago? or they were white? Did you know it happened at all?

And worst of all, The statistics on child raping are equally horrific, and getting worse.

Again, I would ask if it is getting worse, or is it finally being drug out into the light of day? The fact humanity is starting to look at these things ugly as they are, is a good sign. There can be no solutions until you are at least aware of the problem.

Feel free to start a thread why today doesn't matter, might not even be considered controversial, Africa, India, Middle East, so far away, not white, don't matter, gimme a beer, chug chug, pass the ammo I wanna kill myself a cloth-head, a yellow belly, a ******, a chink, oh wait, Syria, Iran, N. Korea... Oh yeah not Lebanon anymore, not Turkey anymore, not Granada, not Libya (uh wait, Libya is back on, I think), not Nicaragua, not El Salvador... Oh I get so sick of division, war, rape, torture, killing. Just sick.

Am i being painted with this brush? I have read it several times and it seems I am. Why is that? I never said today doesn't matter. Does bringing up the topic of rape in Germany post WW2 make me a racist?

This is from today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcloCMs3Uek

It is not that rape is a moot point, it is who did what to whom that is a moot point. Everyone is doing everyone at some point in time or another. Let us ask ourselves why.

Fair enough. Why?

All of us are guilty. Humanity is guilty.

What are you guilty of? What good does that do for your cause? for mankind? There is nothing good coming from your guilt for anybody.

This thread could be used to understand how misplaced guilt affects generations of people. It is one of the reasons why we have the world we do today.

The Allies (good guys) defeated the Germans (bad guys) and protected the Jews (victims) the world rejoiced because evil was vanquished. Who benefits from that story? It is difficult to question the allies as they defeated evil. The Jews were innocent victims and we don't want another Holocaust. Germany and the rest of the world must feel guilty for allowing that to happen to the Jews. It is all steaming pile of dung. For all sides, for the world.

There is only one era in time which is illegal to talk about in certain countries. Do you go to jail for talking about the numbers in Nanking? Do you lose your job talking about the number of rapes in India? Nope, you can go to any dark epoch in human history and discuss it no problem. Except for 14 years in Germany. Why is that? What did they know that needs to be hidden or covered in so much sh!t that nobody wants to look?

Really believe this, humph.

Right back at you.

Agape

21st December 2014, 15:53

The Allies (good guys) defeated the Germans (bad guys) and protected the Jews (victims) the world rejoiced because evil was vanquished. Who benefits from that story? It is difficult to question the allies as they defeated evil. The Jews were innocent victims and we don't want another Holocaust. Germany and the rest of the world must feel guilty for allowing that to happen to the Jews. It is all steaming pile of dung. For all sides, for the world.

What's your point though ?

As most of us so called 'arguing' with most of 'you' in this thread , about uniformity of so called good and so called evil ,
non existence of 'good guys' and 'bad guys' ,

what you throw in our face here are your presumptions , your prejudice .

Who ( really ) made you think that way ?

Yes I know from larger context and other threads that some here ( MOD Karelia for example ) are of that opinion that history as taught ( to whom though .. ) is exact opposite of true history ,
and Nazis ( who stole all of the 'Aryan' mythology ) from much older sources worldwide and misused its meaning in order to personify 'divine justice' ,
against ''much greater evil'' ( here personified by so called 'Reptilian races' , Jews as their off shot etc etc ) were the good guys and all the rest were 'bad guys' .

I consider such an opinion an extreme view , so does majority of sane individuals who are aware to some extent at least of the danger of such extreme views .

Other than that ...

there had been few individuals seen coming here fighting 'against the windmills' and 'myth' of 'good and bad guys' .

I wonder , what age group could be the most affected , by such a myth , these days , at this place .
What kind of education do you offer or presume in others ,, when talking of 'good guys' ( the victims ) and bad guys ( who ) .

There is only one era in time which is illegal to talk about in certain countries. Do you go to jail for talking about the numbers in Nanking? Do you lose your job talking about the number of rapes in India? Nope, you can go to any dark epoch in human history and discuss it no problem. Except for 14 years in Germany. Why is that? What did they know that needs to be hidden or covered in so much sh!t that nobody wants to look?

Oh , wrong . Unfortunately , you can go to jail in China for discussing the Tianmen massacre : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

or the Lhasa uprising : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959_Tibetan_uprising

and many other similar events for 'igniting public unrest' . According to authorities , those events never happened as people saw them in the streets .

You can be jailed ( and beheaded ) in orthodox Muslim countries or their enclaves for simple thing , like change of your faith .

You can ( still ) be jailed in Russia for protesting against government or criticising it openly ( a fact that somehow escaped few Avalonians devoted to the cause of free humanity ) .

I'd like to know whether talking of native Americans and the way Aztec and Mayan cultures were destroyed by conquistadors is still cultural tabu in America ,

and whether these 'dirty unkempt savages' are the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' ..

whilst their totems remind you of snakes and birds , and are totally un-christian and un-catholic .

Are we talking of civilisation versus barbarianism and if so , what kind of excuse is there , by any religious or civil means for use of brute force against other living beings under the presumption of them being potential source of evil ?

Not that I really expect that any of us could answer to it .

:angel:

aikisaw

23rd December 2014, 03:11

What's your point though ?

In short, to find out what happened.

The piece you quoted was part of a larger idea on how useless guilt is. In my opinion the bad guys use guilt to cover up existing and ongoing games.

As most of us so called 'arguing' with most of 'you' in this thread , about uniformity of so called good and so called evil ,
non existence of 'good guys' and 'bad guys' ,

Yes I'm starting to see the pattern now, there are no good guys or bad guys, man is inhumane or so I'm told.

That is not my world view. There are good people and notice i didn't say perfect people. Many of the good people have been smeared once they figured out the game and began looking for a way out. It is a shame you have no distinction between people trying to good and those who are trying to do harm.

It really is irrelevant how you view the good , evil discussion because that is the way the story has been told . Thus the thread title A Look Beneath the Holocaust Propaganda.

what you throw in our face here are your presumptions , your prejudice .

Isn't that what everyone on the forum does? Are you doing anything different in your post? Whose presumptions would you prefer?

Yes I know from larger context and other threads that some here ( MOD Karelia for example ) are of that opinion that history as taught ( to whom though .. ) is exact opposite of true history ,
and Nazis ( who stole all of the 'Aryan' mythology ) from much older sources worldwide and misused its meaning in order to personify 'divine justice' ,
against ''much greater evil'' ( here personified by so called 'Reptilian races' , Jews as their off shot etc etc ) were the good guys and all the rest were 'bad guys' .

They stole the Aryan mythology and misused it. LOL It was more about restoring natural law. I'm not sure of your meaning greater evil and good guys part of the quote.

I consider such an opinion an extreme view , so does majority of sane individuals who are aware to some extent at least of the danger of such extreme views .

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
If we are talking about a majority of sane individuals and their opinions, they would consider reptilians flying across the galaxy to abduct people from their bedroom an extreme view. Do you see the problem in dealing with sane majorities?

I'd like to know whether talking of native Americans and the way Aztec and Mayan cultures were destroyed by conquistadors is still cultural tabu in America ,

I was never aware it was a taboo culturally or otherwise. I will say nobody spoke about Aztec and Mayan culture. They did talk about American Indian Culture, but most of the exposure I would classify as a Hollywood version.

and whether these 'dirty unkempt savages' are the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' ..

whilst their totems remind you of snakes and birds , and are totally un-christian and un-catholic .

Just pointing out.... these are your words. This is from your mind. Own it and keep it.

It would be easier for everyone if Hitler was a stone cold racist. It would be better if he hated all other cultures other than Aryan. What if that isn't the whole story?

Here is a one hour interview of Veronica Clark:

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http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2014/10/RIR-141010.php

Veronica K. Clark specializes in World War II and military history. She has two associate degrees, one of which is in Diesel Mechanics Technology and she completed one year of doctoral studies in Organizational Psychology. Veronica founded Vera Icona Publishers in 2011. She is the originator of both the 'Warwolves of the Iron Cross' (Wehrwolf) and 'Powerwolf Publications' series as well as the author of the popular book "Black Nazis." Her next book, "Warwolves of the Iron Cross: Black Wolf, White Reich (Volume II)" is scheduled for release. This will be her most comprehensive book on National Socialism race theory/race relations to date. She’ll address common myths surrounding the National Socialists such as the Reichstag fire being a German false flag attack, or that Jews funded Nazis, or that Nazis run the US government today. Veronica also addresses the lie of Nazi obsession with racial purity. She’ll speak about Nazi Germany’s relationship with minorities and foreigners, including black Nazis. In the member’s hour, we continue discussing Nazi myths, such as the claim that fluoride was used in concentration camps. Veronica also details what happened with Poland. She’ll also talk about the false claim of an extermination plan for Slavs or that the Germans viewed them as less than. Then, we’ll hear about Hitler’s attempts to find a home for the Jews. She’ll talk about what she thinks the war was really about. Veronica explains Hitler’s relationship with Stalin, communist activities and the myth of Britain’s innocence in the “good war.” Later, she speaks about why Nazis were against Freemasonry. Veronica elaborates on what Freemasonry began as and what it is now. She explains why National Socialism and Fascism are the nemesis of the Jews. At the end, she shares her sources and talks about the challenges with

Wind

23rd December 2014, 10:12

I believe that ultimately most humans are good because all of us have that divine spark inside us, but most have forgotten it. However, people can be guided through ignorance to do the most atrocious things to each others, because we humans have the dark aspect to ourselves too, but we just need to embrace the light side. We have not had honest, humble kindhearted people (or if and when we have had, those ones have been very rare) as leaders who would have guided humanity to the right path... Instead we have had these egomaniacs who only want power and profit who have guided people to do their dirty deeds. In their delusion they have totally forgot what living is about, it's about love and harmony, not success and power. In their ignorance they can't see what they are doing to their fellow man and this Earth and in the end the hammer will fall on them. This has been truly the age of ignorance which will eventually change into an age of enlightenment.

PathWalker

23rd December 2014, 13:15

Please put the thread back on the propaganda topic.
Battling historic myth/stories has no value. The truth is very subjective.
After all history is what a person told/chose to believe by propaganda. And facts are only distractions to strong beliefs.

So lets focus on the propaganda.
1. How the propaganda works?
2. Who is behind the propaganda, what are their goals?
3. How to identify propaganda?
4. What about counter propaganda? Is it effective?

Hope this steers the thread back to topic.

Agape

23rd December 2014, 15:47

Counter question : why would anyone truly understanding this 'matter' come to debate it at the same time ... there are always 2 options ..

if you search for 'understanding' , go to the library of resources , speak to original witnesses of WWII ,

or whatever is your ... blessed interest ... internet is mostly 'referential domain' .

What's the trick of any and all propaganda ?

Trick being played on your mind . You're being called 'user' here , such as in 'internet user' and that's who you are .

However , like more than few people on this very board you're also aware of the option of you being used . If you can discard it safely as nonsense then perhaps, you're 'propaganda free' .

Realise your advantage as free thinking entity , as freedom respecting entity and good being .

Anything else than that will cause harms to yourself and others .

This world entails lots of suffering , generally , it is a physical , biological so also psychological phenomenon. One people trying to take over other people is no news .

Somehow we're all searching someone to blame it on, someone else out there .. isn't he, she , it, also inseparable part of our own selves ?

How much capable would your intelligence power be if all your DNA 'strands' held their hands and linked your information together ?

You'd naturally surpass the AI power . Too futuristic perhaps ..

Know thyself and by that everything else becomes known to you .

Me thinks :angel:

syrwong

23rd December 2014, 16:48

I don't think merely talking about June-4 is a crime. If you post on any forum in China that is strongly anti-government, your post would get deleted, that's all. Ordinary criticism is tolerated. Judging from what's written in Wiki about the incident, it appears that Wikipedia is another tool to rewrite history. When enough is written about a historical event with a certain false view (lie told a thousand times), then when the people involved have all died off, what is written is the "real history" dug up by future historians. This must have been the case in all human history, but much more so in the recent centuries because of the greater hypocrisy and manipulative power of modern TPTB.

Akasha

29th August 2016, 21:39

Red Ice Radio just published a recent interview with Germar (http://germarrudolf.com/) Rudolf (http://holocausthandbooks.com/), the Max Planck Institute expert witness eventually imprisoned by the German authorities for trying to present evidence in one of the 1990's trials:

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Akasha

10th September 2016, 19:06

David Cole just released a video of his very candid and highly entertaining speech at the 1994 IHR conference, previously banned by IHR founder, Mark Weber due to Cole's commentary on all-round sleazeball Michael Shermer. In David's own words:

...well, “banned” is maybe not the best word. The IHR decided not to use the speech because it was too loose and anecdotal to make a good printed essay for the journal. But also, more importantly, Mark Weber was still holding out hope that weaselly dirtbag Dr. Michael Shermer could be convinced to be publicly honest about his views regarding revisionism. Of course, Mark, like me, like everyone, learned the hazards of trusting that sweaty, shifty little lump of mediocrity. But in ’94, I was the only one sounding the alarm. And indeed, I was harsh in my speech, taking no prisoners. So Mark, always the very picture of discretion, decided to withhold publication or promotion of it.

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Akasha

2nd October 2016, 09:38

Below is a new article by David Cole published on the Taki Magazine site on the subject of the new movie Denial, a Hollywood production purporting to document but in reality distorting the libel case against Deborah Lipstadt by David Irving.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/denial/images/background-twitter.jpg

In the article, David (Cole) shares elements of his recent correspondence with David (Irving) on the subject of the movie as well as tackling the “Auschwitz or Bust” mentality of both deniers and the Deborah Lipstadts of this world i.e: the idea that Auschwitz was the driver of holocaust belief. For example even the trailer for the movie contains the line "Auschwitz is at the very center of holocaust belief, so it’s at the very center of holocaust denial”.

Denial Is Dead (http://takimag.com/article/denial_is_dead_david_cole/print#ixzz4LuzfJ8ah)

Holocaust denial is dead, but no one knows it. Worse, it appears as though no one wants to know. Not the media, not Jews, and especially not Jew-haters. But it’s true. Denial has gone the way of the woolly mammoth. It exists these days as a bogeyman, a bugbear, an illusion in the minds of hardcore anti-Semites and harder-core Semites. It’s a scarecrow that Jew-haters erect to frighten Jews and that Jews maintain to frighten themselves.

But let’s ease into that point. Better to begin at the cinema, where fantasies come alive…

On Friday, September 30th, the world will be treated to the premiere of the new motion picture Denial, which tells the story of how Deborah Lipstadt, the heroically plucky (or pluckily heroic) college professor and Holocaust scholar, prevailed in court after being sued for libel by the villainous, evil Holocaust denier David Irving. Lipstadt is played by Academy Award-winning actress Rachel Weisz, and Irving is portrayed by renowned bridge troll Timothy Spall. The director is Mick Jackson, the Brit responsible for Volcano (you remember that one, don’t you? About the volcano that sprouts up in the middle of L.A. to harass Tommy Lee Jones and Anne Heche. We all saw that one, right?).

The film is based on true events. In the mid-1990s, Irving sued Lipstadt for libel in an English court after she labeled him (among other things) a Holocaust denier, a racist and an anti-Semite, and a falsifier of history. Irving eventually lost the case, which had been argued before a judge rather than a jury (by mutual agreement of the plaintiff and defendant). The judge conceded that although Lipstadt had made several false accusations against Irving, the more serious of her claims—that he was a denier, a hater, an associate of haters, and a falsifier—were provable enough to excuse her from the charge of libel.

Although I was out of revisionism by the time the judgment was rendered (April 2000), I was keenly aware that, among revisionists, Irving’s defeat was seen as a major, potentially fatal setback, not just for Irving but for Holocaust revisionism in general. Revisionists had always been on the side of the defendant, the prosecuted, the persecuted. The victims of the legal system. There is a certain nobility in being the one dragged before the bench merely for speech. But this time, it was a revisionist who had instigated the proceedings. The defendant was a Jewish Holocaust author, and the “crime” was her words. On Irving’s part, it was a Barbarossa-level gambit—the kind of campaign a man should undertake only if he is absolutely, positively certain of victory, because the consequences of defeat would be devastating. And for Irving, they certainly were. He could now legally be called a denier and an anti-Semite with impunity. The fact is, I’m surprised as hell that it took Hollywood sixteen years to finally turn the trial into a movie.

I asked Irving, who I’ve known since 1992, for his thoughts on the film. He told me that no one from the production ever contacted him for his side of the story (no surprise there). He added:

Ridley Scott was directing the original version, but the newspapers say he quit when HBO asked him to include fictional elements. I have not seen anything of ‘Denial’ but bits of trailers: the opening scene, of my first confrontation with Lipstadt in Atlanta in November 1994, is fictional; it happened, but my actual challenge, waving $1,000 in notes in the air, was: “If you will now show this audience the actual blueprint you just told this audience that you have, I will give you these notes.” See our video of the scene, posted on YouTube. They have changed that wording materially.

The article and elements of the Cole / Irving correspondence continues here (http://takimag.com/article/denial_is_dead_david_cole/print#ixzz4LuzfJ8ah)....

BMJ

7th March 2018, 01:50

Further to post 833, here David Irving discusses his legal battles, and in relation to the holocaust he goes in to the facts at 1 hour 17 minutes.

David Irving - Jailed and Beaten For Telling Truth of 2nd World War

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Richard Bruce
Published on Oct 8, 2016
SUBSCRIBE 58K
As I became aware of the huge lie about Hitler and WWII I find the star historian, and now one of the only experts you can trust, is David Irving. Here in this nearing the end of his journey talk, he tells how he was put in solitary confinement for four hundred days (no small hell, I've been for three days - you go ape second day) because telling the truth in Austria is currently against the law, and you can still be thrown in prison for saying anything about the truth of what really happened in WWII.

The difference with David Irving as he well describes himself is that he actually went to the sources like Hitler's personal staff, who only talked with him because he had written a book on the bombing of Dresden. All you have to do is listen to a few of these lectures of him on YouTube to be convinced he is an extraordinary and essential figure for a very important truth that was kept from us, and I certainly plan on reading as many of his books as I can.