Bill Ryan's Mission and His Lunchbox, Sociopath du Jour, and Unicorn Urine

[Dennis Leahy]

This is a post in 2 parts: Part 1 is about money; Part 2 is about the Avalon forum vibe and evolution and its prominent writers' role in shaping the vibe.

PART 1: BILL'S LUNCHBOX
Part 1 is simply shaking the tree, asking EVERYONE, members and visitors, to donate some money TODAY to Bill and the forum. Not tomorrow, today. Bill needs it now (thus the "lunchbox" reference in the title.) Go re-read the Project Avalon mission statement if you need to, or at least stop and realize what a treasure it is to have a place in cyberspace to explore topics that are censored or verboten elsewhere, and there is nowhere with such a wide curated list of "alternative" topics to read (and for members, to add to.)

Figure out how much you can donate today. OK, double that amount, and add $10. Now, go hit the How to Donate (https://projectavalon.net/donation.html) button.

Many independent experts in finance and economy, and multiple psychics are predicting the biggest-in-history crash of the US economy and with its enmeshed ties to the rest of the world economy and the Global Corporate Network, a global meltdown of the economy worldwide (probably as planned by nefarious global controllers.) The day after it happens, you won't be able to pay for Bill's lunch, or the Avalon servers. Please be generous, and pay it ahead.

I'm planning to help with the logistics of transferring money from PayPal (the paypal mafia, as Whitney Webb calls them, won't allow Bill to just get his money out, directly.) I'd like to do it by tomorrow night, so please don't delay.

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PART 2: Sociopath du Jour, Unicorn Urine, and Avalon's prominent writers' role in shaping the vibe of the Avalon forum.

First, please note that this is strictly me, Dennis Leahy, writing what I'm about to write. Bill has no idea, and I deliberately did not run any of it past him. These are my opinions. I'll even fabricate some [MY OPINION] tags to show it is my opinion.

Second, if you are an emotional wimp, leave this thread right now. Just go donate and don't read any further.

[MY OPINION]
I've been a member of the Project Avalon forum since 2011, you know, "the good old days." A lot has changed since then. There were periods of explosive growth in the forum, with membership requests coming in so fast that it overwhelmed the moderation staff to process the requests. There have been periods of mass exodus from the forum too. Why?

To put it simply, there used to be a general vibe at Project Avalon that reflected reality: there were the bad guys: the global controllers and their minions, the secret societies, the self-proclaimed elite, the bloodline families, and the miscreants in all high positions in the major governments of the world, especially in the American Empire, and the "intel" agencies CIA, Mossad, MI6... and then there was us, the good guys: the citizens of the world, the workers that kept it all going, the peons, the peasants, the slaves, the useless eaters.

In the late 1800s, exploitative capitalism went from being a bad thing (oil, coal, steel, railroad "barons") to a good thing, when corporations went "public" and sold pieces of paper that assigned a dollar value to stocks, creating "the market" where the workers could share in a tiny fraction of the profits, but compromised the workers' loyalty to the working class. Some workers even became minions of the bad guys by becoming the "investor class."

The bad guys took over all major media, and the bad guys were then able, drip by drip, to control the narrative. The bad guys took over the education systems, dumbing-down the working class and formed an "elite-centric" reality view. With all the gaslighting and lies, the good guys were getting further and further from being able to discern the good guys from the bad guys, and reality from the phony reality projected upon us. The CIA even branded those who would not swallow Oswald as the assassin of JFK as "conspiracy theorists", a pejorative that stands to this day.

Fast forward to 2011 when I joined Project Avalon. It seemed as if most member/writers here still had a pretty good sense of who the bad guys were - regardless if they voted for one of the political miscreants in an election - Clinton, Bush, Obama in the US, Major, Blair, Brown in the UK, etc. The billionaires and trillionaires of the world stayed behind a layer of curtains, but we all knew they were bad guys who saw us as "useless eaters", and that they were sociopaths, greedily destroying the sensitive ecosystems of the world, poisoning the air, water, soil, and food supply. I think most of us could easily recognize sociopaths and knew they were bad guys.

Then in 2016, along came Donald Trump, a poster-boy of narcissism and sociopathy. He was rude and crude and lashed out at mass media as "fake", and suddenly the fact that he is a sociopath didn't matter any more. The fact that he is a bad guy, aligned with the Global Corporate Network and THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC. corporation, not American citizens, didn't matter. He became the celebrated sociopath, the Sociopath du Jour, at Avalon.

Avalon went from being an outpost for the the good guys that railed against ALL of the global controllers and all of the sociopaths to a bastion of Trump supporters who shouted down all others - even those who were simultaneously railing against Hillary and Barack. Members stopped looking at issues, one issue at a time, to giving blanket approval to whatever Trump did, no matter what.

"Q", a penultimate Trump fanboi, became a celebrity here.

Trump had declared his sociopathy in 2015, before being elected, at a town hall where he was asked about supporting torture (even after Obama had imprisoned CIA whistleblowers that publicly declared that no real intel had come from torture.)

Trump's first duty as president was to crush the Indian rebellion at Standing Rock who were trying to protect their water supply from an oil corporation.

Trump went 3 times to Duluth Minnesota (where I lived), and fought for a foreign corporation with an abysmal record of environmental and human rights violations to build a giant open pit sulfide mine at the headwaters of the Mississippi river.

Trump did everything the US military and the Israeli Mossad told him to do, including laying the groundwork for the destruction of Israel's enemies, Syria and Palestine.

Trump's IQ is 105, not 150, as someone mistakenly hinted. Instead of bringing back the steel industry in the US and then using tariffs to keep steel from being 'dumped' in the US (for example), our Dumbass In Chief tried to use tariffs to skim money off the top from all imports, mobster style, and reportedly wasn't even aware that US citizens have to pay the tariffs.

Probably the most egregious acts of sociopathy/psychopathy that Trump has committed is linking arms with the Zionists, completing the extermination of Palestinians that Biden's puppet-masters and Satanyahoo didn't complete, and creating a purge of anti-Zionists (mislabeled as Hamas supporters) in the US.

I can't believe I forgot to add the extraordinary rendition, persecution, imprisonment, and torture of Julian Assange, by orders of Donald Trump. Though some dictionaries don't make much or even any distinction between the two, I'd say this was an act of psychopathy by Trump, rather than sociopathy. Do you Trump supporters still believe this was a "5-D chess" move? Talk about the inability to distinguish between the bad guys and the good guys!

Still, some prominent members here maintain the delusion that Trump is not just a retarded toddler with a machine gun, a sociopath, a psychopath, anti-citizen and pro-corporate/pretend anti-globalist miscreant.

Some members here support the "post-modern Nazis" - the Israeli government and Mossad and Zionism, and hold someone like a Ben Shapiro or a Jordan Peterson in high esteem, despite their cheerleading the genocidal slaughter of 50,000+ Palestinians and destruction of Palestine.

I read a post the other day accusing student protestors of the Palestinian genocide of really being anti-white and standing up for Palestinians because they have brown skin - not that they might just have normal human decency, working ethical and moral standards to stand up for Palestinians and against the Zionazi genocide of Palestine. I nearly quit the forum that day, in disgust. One of the best writers on the forum. Way too intelligent to have been indoctrinated into Zionism support. Goddamn unbelievable.

Unconditional support for Trump and the Zionists has destroyed the vibe of the Project Avalon forum, and a bunch of people either just don't bother to write any more, or only write in non-controversial threads, and a bunch of sane voices that used to be here are gone. If this is to be a pro-Trump/Zionist oriented forum, then the couple dozen of you who have made it that way had better donate at least $1000 each to keep the forum going. (I can already hear your rebuttals starting with "Oct 7", which only means you paid no attention before that date, and are weak-minded against the Zionist/AIPAC/Israel propaganda machine.) You didn't just drink the Kool-aid, you drank the unicorn urine.

{edited: added the Julian Assange reference}
[/MY OPINION]

[BMJ]

I respect your opinion Dennis on these matters even if I don't agree with you. Controversy is one of the aspects I love about the forum because it can help me to have a better understanding

In relation to the big Q divide of 2019, if people weren't interested or found it offensive then all the Karen's should have ignored it instead of whining so much so that it became a members only thread.

I mean expressing our thoughts here shouldn't be censored by the forums MSM or those left leaning members.

The issue you touched which I will expand upon is the example of the like of Ben Shapiro & Jordan Petersen the alternative media is now heavily infiltrated by operatives. Yes the MSM has gone alternative to maintain the narrative you get 80% truth and 20% propaganda. Why do some of these guys " never " speaks badly of Israel, thats a dead give away.

So be careful not to take what is said by these types literally. Other examples would be Candace Owens, Shawn Ryan, Tucker Carlson & Alex Jones.

In regards to us Q types donating double and then some, well I will counter by saying the forum Karen's & leftists were the source of the pain and suffering and they should pay this fine, if they would have left us alone it would have been fine.

Lastly WWG1WGA.

[Mike]

I just wanna know who this mystery guy is who made the comments about student protesters. I think he's really on to something!

[JackMcThorn]

When-ever there is a doomsday rant, having seen it many times not follow through; I kind of wonder when I see it again and suspect it will go nowhere. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. The worst generally never happens, in my experience.

I think we should be clear that I suspect Bill only uses the resources provided for the forum and no other personal needs. It is not his lunch-box at stake here.

I think we should also be clear that the donate thread that is bounced from time to time indicates Bill is in good shape. This is part of the reason I have been waiting to donate until a time when it is needed. I am still thinking about what amount would be appropriate given the few years I've been accessing the forum. I have not donated yet because for some time I did not have the resources to spare. If the resources are needed, it would be more helpful to know what is needed in order for me to figure out what to give. [...and in retrospect of the past few years what I could give to account for that access. Sort of an amount that would be like a subscription for the time I've been here.]

What I don't really agree with is a call to arms based on political ideology without a description of what is needed. The reason is politics is a great divider. There is only a couple people I am wary of at this point and since the mods don't really manage it, I had no choice but to ignore them. This has brought peace back into the access of the forum.

What I think I will do is submit a donation on my own terms in due course. It has been on my mind since the last bounce of the donate thread. I think there should be a 'goal' of what is needed to keep the resources a few years into the future covered if it is not already. We just don't have that information.

[Isserley]

@Dennis interesting rant there :fire:
You are irritated by the pro-Trump sentiment on the forum, but what is your opinion about pro-Putin sentiment which prevails?
If what you said above is true and let me quote : "there were the bad guys: the global controllers and their minions, the secret societies, the self-proclaimed elite, the bloodline families, and the miscreants in all high positions in the major governments of the world.." .. but still not a word about Putin, who is considered the messiah on this forum. I'm just interested in your opinion, mine doesn't matter :)

[Irminsül]

Hi Dennis!
I think your words are impeccable. Congratulations on explaining everything so well. It’s a shame that there are people who align themselves with an Anglo-Zionist sociopath like Trump. Sadly, the whole world is like this. In my country, we have a cub of the great lion that is Trump, who in turn is a cub of satanyahu from the tribe of the Lion of Judah...
Complicated times to be living on Earth, no doubt...
Still, I feel, I believe, and based on everything I've been analyzing for years, I’m convinced that a Third World War is coming soon, followed by a meteor strike, and we’re also not far from the Second Coming of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ.
In the midst of all that, they’re going to stage the fake alien invasion — we must stay alert and keep our faith in God.
A hug from Argentum and thank you for your words!


55225


55226

[Bill Ryan]

This thread title made me laugh. (Surely one of the most unusual of the 100,000 thread titles that we have? :ROFL:)

A couple of responses from yours truly:

My lunchbox is in very good shape, as am I. I'm blessed by being able to live very cheaply, surrounded by fresh fruit and veg from roadside market stalls where a big pineapple costs just $1. :heart: (And organic eggs are just $0.30 each, with raw milk at $0.35/pint.)



Putin is the true 'Leader of the Free World' right now. (First pointed out by Michel Leclerc back in 2022, and I've shamelessly borrowed the term several times since then. :))



Trump may or may not be a sociopath, but as best I can see he's still the least-worst option for America right now — at least until Tulsi inherits the presidency in 2029. (Do see this thread (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?123844-More-predictions--maybe-), all about that forthcoming event.)

As Chris Martenson has said several times, in the 2024 election the US didn't just dodge a bullet, they dodged a tank shell. But disregarding Trump's eccentric and often seemingly thoughtless words and looking only at his actions, we still may have to wait a while to witness a lot more being done that every one of us here would like to see.

:flower:

[peace]

thanks for this.

[Open Minded Dude]

I really always appreciate your contributions, Dennis, as much as that of many others.

What I don't understand in this thread is the utter contradiction between Part 1 (advertisement FOR the forum with corresponding monetary incentivisation) and Part 2 (anti-advertising by putting down the forum based on unwanted political bias(es), not a really good marketing strategy - for Part 1 - if you ask me).

I admit I'm a bit confused.

[Johnnycomelately]

Dennis the Menace, please quit trying to stoke fear in this forum. Why didn’t you post this screed in bojancan’s thread TINTA? You pair would make great buddies.

I’m so full of counter-battery (artillery reference) this morning, not only do I forgive this neglect of God’s infinite wisdom, but I will send you a kind of a love potion-thought, intending for you to feel better.

Cheers stranger!

Not often that I fully align with Bill’s takes, but this made me laugh too.

[Arcturian108]

And to think that some dumbnut mod (no longer on the Forum) prevented me from being an Avalon member for two whole years because I mentioned in my forum application that I occasionally channel an angel. . . .

[shaberon]

...surrounded by fresh fruit and veg from roadside market stalls where a big pineapple costs just $1. :heart: (And organic eggs are just $0.30 each, with raw milk at $0.35/pint.)


Minimum around here would be about $3 for the pineapple and such eggs around $1 or more.

My eggs are free because we have chickens, but, generally, lunch is around $10.

But, actually, in terms of badness, I'm banned from Paypal. Not because of any scam, but, just because I owed them a minor sum, when poverty and inflation took over and I defaulted on it. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it turns out that money is not a natural product, and so the constant coughing up is a fundamental flaw of our society.

I thoroughly ignored the Q stuff and learned there are threads where it wasn't worth interjecting a rebuttal. Not that I hold popular views or expect anyone to agree with me. Even with the "dip" caused by..."that"...I still think we have a great resource here and hope it can continue to run cheaply.

[Dennis Leahy]

I respect your opinion Dennis on these matters even if I don't agree with you. Controversy is one of the aspects I love about the forum because it can help me to have a better understanding

In relation to the big Q divide of 2019, if people weren't interested or found it offensive then all the Karen's should have ignored it instead of whining so much so that it became a members only thread.

I mean expressing our thoughts here shouldn't be censored by the forums MSM or those left leaning members.

The issue you touched which I will expand upon is the example of the like of Ben Shapiro & Jordan Petersen the alternative media is now heavily infiltrated by operatives. Yes the MSM has gone alternative to maintain the narrative you get 80% truth and 20% propaganda. Why do some of these guys " never " speaks badly of Israel, thats a dead give away.

So be careful not to take what is said by these types literally. Other examples would be Candace Owens, Shawn Ryan, Tucker Carlson & Alex Jones.

In regards to us Q types donating double and then some, well I will counter by saying the forum Karen's & leftists were the source of the pain and suffering and they should pay this fine, if they would have left us alone it would have been fine.

Lastly WWG1WGA.

You may want to read Part 2 of my post again - you missed the gist. It wasn't about Q, and it wasn't about Trump either. It was about the forum members going from being aligned with the people, us (I called us the good guys) to being aligned with the global controllers/financial elite/rulers of the world (I called them the bad guys.) If Hillary would have won the election in 2016, and forum members started being sycophantic about her and excusing her heinous actions, I would have sided with the good guys and decried support for Hillary and the bad guys.

Calling someone a "Karen" online is pejorative, mocking, condescending, bullying. You know, you screamed so loud about the Q thread being public that you got kicked off the forum for a while. Were you being a "Karen?" Or were you taking a stand and defending it? Bill made the decision to move the Q thread into members only, are you calling him a Karen too? My own objection to the Q thread was the same thing I just explained to you: Q supported bad guys, like Giuliani and Trump. I wanted threads supporting bad guys off the forum, not just tainting the 'members only' section of the forum. I wanted members supporting bad guys to wake the **** up and stop promoting bad guys.

My suggestion of donating $1000 wasn't a "fine", it was math: if there are only approximately 1 or 2 dozen supporters of the bad guys that have shouted down the good guys and have taken over the forum, then, if the forum is to survive, they will have to pay for it to remain online. Many good guys have left this forum, taking their donations with them. The transfer of funds this time that I'll do for Bill is the smallest ever. I'll admit that the donations I've made are to Bill and for Bill, not for the forum any more.

You may want to watch the Candace Owens episode where she interviews a survivor of Israel's attack on the USS Liberty ship, as well as her unabashed announcement of gaining the #1 position on AIPAC's "anti-semite" blacklist. She may have muffled herself back at the Daily Wire, or had a change of heart, but you might just want to check before you add her to a current list of Zionist supporters.


I just wanna know who this mystery guy is who made the comments about student protesters. I think he's really on to something!
It was you, Mike. You. I couldn't believe my eyes. I thought it was parody at first. It is one of the most ignorant posts on the forum. Are you so devoid of compassion that you cannot even see the compassion in others? I hope you fix that hole in your heart, pump a little bit of blood to your heart chakra.

There, have I given you enough ammo to write a hit piece on me?


When-ever there is a doomsday rant, having seen it many times not follow through; I kind of wonder when I see it again and suspect it will go nowhere. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. The worst generally never happens, in my experience.

I think we should be clear that I suspect Bill only uses the resources provided for the forum and no other personal needs. It is not his lunch-box at stake here.

I think we should also be clear that the donate thread that is bounced from time to time indicates Bill is in good shape. This is part of the reason I have been waiting to donate until a time when it is needed. I am still thinking about what amount would be appropriate given the few years I've been accessing the forum. I have not donated yet because for some time I did not have the resources to spare. If the resources are needed, it would be more helpful to know what is needed in order for me to figure out what to give. [...and in retrospect of the past few years what I could give to account for that access. Sort of an amount that would be like a subscription for the time I've been here.]

What I don't really agree with is a call to arms based on political ideology without a description of what is needed. The reason is politics is a great divider. There is only a couple people I am wary of at this point and since the mods don't really manage it, I had no choice but to ignore them. This has brought peace back into the access of the forum.

What I think I will do is submit a donation on my own terms in due course. It has been on my mind since the last bounce of the donate thread. I think there should be a 'goal' of what is needed to keep the resources a few years into the future covered if it is not already. We just don't have that information.
If you paid attention a decade ago, you'd know that Bill's girlfriend, Christine, stole all his money and ran off (oh, and a few forum members actually sided with the bad guy, Christine, apparently caught in her web of deceit with fluffy, disingenuous "love and light" ramblings. Bill doesn't do interviews anymore, and I bet the revenues from yootoob PA videos (if they are even monitized), wouldn't buy Bill lunch. Bill has no other income than the money left over after paying the very high monthly invoice for private forum hosting and hardware rental. You want to starve him to death like a Palestinian child, then don't donate. Yes, there have been previous donor drives that were specifically for forum hardware and software and private hosting. I thought the hardware and private server were overkill, but in retrospect, I think Paul was right and that hardware and his technical skillset are the reason the forum has survived online attacks by some of the bad guys. (And, I say that knowing that Paul doesn't like me, and I don't like him - but I do respect his technical/administrative skills.)

You also missed the gist of Part 2. I'm not some dumbass Democrat yelling at Republicans - this isn't about politics, it's about supporting the bad guys (that includes ALL the high-ranking politicians and the other bad guys I listed.)

Your excuse not to donate is weak.


@Dennis interesting rant there :fire:
You are irritated by the pro-Trump sentiment on the forum, but what is your opinion about pro-Putin sentiment which prevails?
If what you said above is true and let me quote : "there were the bad guys: the global controllers and their minions, the secret societies, the self-proclaimed elite, the bloodline families, and the miscreants in all high positions in the major governments of the world.." .. but still not a word about Putin, who is considered the messiah on this forum. I'm just interested in your opinion, mine doesn't matter :)

You also missed the gist of Part 2. Trump was mentioned because he was the catalyst for some members to switch the vibe of the forum from exposing ALL the bad guys and their deeds to celebrating one of the bad guys.

Asking my views on Putin are an obfuscation and deflection attempt. I already said, "...the miscreants in all high positions in the major governments of the world..." Hitler could paint. Trump can golf. Putin can truthfully enunciate the US Deep State agenda. That doesn't make them good guys.


Hi Dennis!
I think your words are impeccable. Congratulations on explaining everything so well. It’s a shame that there are people who align themselves with an Anglo-Zionist sociopath like Trump. Sadly, the whole world is like this. In my country, we have a cub of the great lion that is Trump, who in turn is a cub of satanyahu from the tribe of the Lion of Judah...
Complicated times to be living on Earth, no doubt...
Still, I feel, I believe, and based on everything I've been analyzing for years, I’m convinced that a Third World War is coming soon, followed by a meteor strike, and we’re also not far from the Second Coming of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ.
In the midst of all that, they’re going to stage the fake alien invasion — we must stay alert and keep our faith in God.
A hug from Argentum and thank you for your words!

Thanks for the thumb's up.

As an aside, I don't personally think Yeshua/Jesus, the Christ-Conscious Ascended Master, is physically coming back, but rather that the flame of Christ-Consciousness will be passed to a number of spiritually advanced, "high vibrating" individuals here on Earth, to disseminate. I have a feeling that we will find out if one of those 2 ideas are true in our lifetimes (as long as I can live to be 100!)

This thread title made me laugh. (Surely one of the most unusual of the 100,000 thread titles that we have? :ROFL:)

A couple of responses from yours truly:


My lunchbox is in very good shape, as am I. I'm blessed by being able to live very cheaply, surrounded by fresh fruit and veg from roadside market stalls where a big pineapple costs just $1. :heart: (And organic eggs are just $0.30 each, with raw milk at $0.35/pint.)



Putin is the true 'Leader of the Free World' right now. (First pointed out by Michel Leclerc back in 2022, and I've shamelessly borrowed the term several times since then. :))



Trump may or may not be a sociopath, but as best I can see he's still the least-worst option for America right now — at least until Tulsi inherits the presidency in 2029. (Do see this thread (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?123844-More-predictions--maybe-), all about that forthcoming event.)

As Chris Martenson has said several times, in the 2024 election the US didn't just dodge a bullet, they dodged a tank shell. But disregarding Trump's eccentric and often seemingly thoughtless words and looking only at his actions, we still may have to wait a while to witness a lot more being done that every one of us here would like to see.

:flower:


Bill, I'm sure you've heard the story of the wise old grandmother that wished her granddaughter "enough." There's a lot of wisdom in that anecdote. Kudos to you for living simply, for not needing much and especially for knowing that you have enough. I was not hoping for forum members to donate vast shekels so that you could eat Komodo Dragon steak with a side of Beluga caviar, and wash it down with a bottle of 1954 Mogan David's finest MD 20-20!

On the other hand, you don't sell advertising space on the forum or have corporate sponsors. (You know, "Project Avalon, brought to you by the good folks at Pfizer!"), and I have the feeling that a lot of members and guests just take it for granted that the forum is free. However, this is your work, your project, and you invest vast numbers of your hours to the forum. Besides all those unpaid labor hours, you need to pay for forum hosting and hardware rental, plus eggs, pineapples, toilet paper, high altitude goggles so you don't go blind, and maybe a few other essentials. Members and guests of the forum should want to help you out financially. Let 'em!

It's not germane to this thread that you think highly of Putin, nor does it matter what I think about Putin. (But we won't let that stop us! hahahaha) An objective observer should be able to tell that Putin is a measured and articulate master statesman, and that the US Deep State would have already destroyed Russia if Putin wasn't at the helm. He seems to be playing at least 3-D chess against checker players like Trump. I have no real idea how many body bags he has filled, and whether the corpses were really American Empire operatives, anti-Russian Russian stooges that he culled from the herd. Like John Lennon's line, "and if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow", you do elicit grumbling from a percentage of the unwashed masses by placing Putin on too high a pedestal, deserved or not.

Trump is a sociopath and a narcissist. These are attributes like his weight, height, and eye color. It doesn't matter if you think he's a great US president or not.

The "least-worst" comparison is the crux of the issue. It is binary thinking. "Better" is a comparison that must not be conflated to "good." A 5-gallon bucket of vomit might be considered by someone as being better than a 5-gallon bucket of diarrhea, but neither bucket is good. Even "better" is a misnomer to the 50,000 dead Palestinians that Trump and Biden aided and abetted the Zionazi Israelis to snuff. Now Trump has been elected - we don't need to compare him to anyone else. His actions as president are his actions. Trump's hooks into the Global Corporate Network are slightly different than Biden's or Harris' hooks into the Global Corporate Network, but we can discard the latter and focus on Trump's. Trump is the first obvious bad guy that this forum has embraced and lauded and supported. Embracing a bad guy was a major turning point, a major milestone in the devolution of this forum.

Tell the Palestinians how lucky they are that Joe "I am a Zionist" Biden or The Joker Harris yuk yuk Zionist didn't make it to the American throne room, and instead they got Donald "I am a Christian Zionist" Trump instead. Bullets, tank shells, hellfire missiles - they all kill. Trump has done nothing positive for the American citizenry, only for the financially wealthy and corporations and the Military-Intelligence Industrial Complex.


thanks for this.
You're welcome!



I really always appreciate your contributions, Dennis, as much as that of many others.

What I don't understand in this thread is the utter contradiction between Part 1 (advertisement FOR the forum with corresponding monetary incentivisation) and Part 2 (anti-advertising by putting down the forum based on unwanted political bias(es), not a really good marketing strategy - for Part 1 - if you ask me).

I admit I'm a bit confused.
It's a call for everyone to donate, and for everyone, including Bill, to decide if we want to keep going as a Zionist supporting, bad guy supporting forum. If that is true, then the attrition of members that don't want to be part of a bad guy supporting forum will escalate, taking their donor money away, and the Zionists and bad guy and apartheid and genocide supporters here will have to step up with a lot of cash to keep it going. You can see from the responses to my post how it's going to go. Like Roger Waters says, "What did you do during the genocide?" and in this forum the question is, "What did you do when the Project Avalon forum got taken over by Zionists and supporters of the bad guys?

What I've done is to stand up and speak the truth, like the college kids protesting Zionism and genocide. Barring a miracle turnaround on who the forum supports, I'm sure I've telegraphed my next move.


Dennis the Menace, please quit trying to stoke fear in this forum. Why didn’t you post this screed in bojancan’s thread TINTA? You pair would make great buddies.

I’m so full of counter-battery (artillery reference) this morning, not only do I forgive this neglect of God’s infinite wisdom, but I will send you a kind of a love potion-thought, intending for you to feel better.

Cheers stranger!

Not often that I fully align with Bill’s takes, but this made me laugh too.
Fascinating rebuttal, Johnny. Very insightful. What is your favorite color?

And that, boys and girls, is the end of my participation in this thread.

[JackMcThorn]

If you paid attention a decade ago, you'd know that Bill's girlfriend, Christine, stole all his money and ran off (oh, and a few forum members actually sided with the bad guy, Christine, apparently caught in her web of deceit with fluffy, disingenuous "love and light" ramblings. Bill doesn't do interviews anymore, and I bet the revenues from yootoob PA videos (if they are even monitized), wouldn't buy Bill lunch. Bill has no other income than the money left over after paying the very high monthly invoice for private forum hosting and hardware rental. You want to starve him to death like a Palestinian child, then don't donate. Yes, there have been previous donor drives that were specifically for forum hardware and software and private hosting. I thought the hardware and private server were overkill, but in retrospect, I think Paul was right and that hardware and his technical skillset are the reason the forum has survived online attacks by some of the bad guys. (And, I say that knowing that Paul doesn't like me, and I don't like him - but I do respect his technical/administrative skills.)

You also missed the gist of Part 2. I'm not some dumbass Democrat yelling at Republicans - this isn't about politics, it's about supporting the bad guys (that includes ALL the high-ranking politicians and the other bad guys I listed.)

Your excuse not to donate is weak.

...And that, boys and girls, is the end of my participation in this thread.

I wasn't here a decade ago [4 years abouts] and Bill's personal information and experience is not 'common knowledge'.

You sir, are a piece of work. Re-read what you wrote to me. I will donate when and if I care to and will not be strong-armed by a lunatic [that takes his ball and goes home after a weak rant and a spiteful retort.]

Your anger is misplaced and your conduct is unacceptable. I will be thinking this over deeply.

[arjunaloka_official]

In my opinion, the challenge we still often face is the good old "divide and conquer" approach. I try to avoid this trap by focusing on a single issue, regardless of the party representing it.

For example, a few weeks ago, I participated in a protest for peace in Ukraine. This protest was organized by the German Left, and Antifa (anti-fascist) groups also participated. Many people I know did not want to participate in this protest, not because they are pro war, but because they do not want to protest alongside Antifa. Do I support everything Antifa supports? Quite the opposite. During the alleged pandemic, many on the German Left—including Antifa—supported lockdowns and vaccination mandates. That's why I protested against these mandates (and as a result, against Antifa defending them) with some old-fashioned communists and right-wingers at the time.

As long as we cannot separate topics from parties or individuals, we will remain in the "divide and conquer" situation perfectly described in the movie "The Life of Brian":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4

[Orph]

Well,.....dang. Dennis won't be back to this thread. And I was going to say he needed to find a time machine to take him back to 1970 and Newport Ave.
:chuckle:

[HopSan]

Hmm...

Is this thread an example of the famous Trump Derangement Syndrome?

Note: I am a newcomer, and don't know much of your older histories.

Peace, friends!

[Mike]

Dennis, I know the post is about me. How could I not? Didn't you see the irony in my post?:)

This should clear things up: in terms of my priority list, Gaza is hovering somewhere around the 1 million mark..which means as far as personal importance places it about 999,900 spots behind my hangnails and the dander that gets on my car after I wash it.

And in case that isn't clear enough, I'll just state plainly that I don't care about any of it. Not in any kind of personal way anyway. And it's not because I'm a cold, unfeeling guy or because I have a hole in my heart or whatever it is you said about chakras. I'm none of those things. I'm a softy actually. I cry when I watch undercover boss.

It's because I have no personal connection to it. It's because I live on the other side of the world. It's because I've never been there, I never will go there, I don't know anyone there, I likely never will know anyone there, the conflict has been going on since forever, the conflict shows no signs of slowing, there's nothing I can do about it, and it's not my fight. There are conflicts going on all over the world, and if I was determined to grieve them all I'd be weeping into my belly button 24 hours a day or shrieking uncontrollably along with those student protesters you love so much. No thanks.

I have no hard opinion on the conflict save that it's bad. Regardless, I still have to get up and go to work everyday and the rent has to be paid. Life goes on...no matter what is happening in the world and no matter how awful.

Emotion operates in concentric circles, meaning most people feel strongest about themselves and their immediate family..their boyfriends, girlfriends, wives, husbands, brothers, sisters, cousins etc. That's the first circle and the smallest. Next comes their friends and their immediate community. That's a slightly bigger circle. And it moves outward into the world, with each circle getting larger but less emotionally charged.

Emotion and energy are the same thing. You can't possibly care about what's going on on the other side of the world as much as you do your immediate family and community because no one has that kind of energy. If you find that your concentric circles of emotion have reached Gaza and you still have this huge reservoir of emotional energy to burn, it's not a sign of your virtue; it's a sign that you're emotionally dysregulated or that you're offering an abstraction the emotion and energy that you should have offered your family or friends or inner circle.

I feel badly about it all and share the sense of horror about it, but I refuse to join the queue of people climbing over each other to declare their undying concern for a conflict they imagine they know something about but generally do not. It's nothing but theatre. It's a form of sociopathy masquerading as compassion. I don't think you're able to separate the two.

Being obsessed with Gaza is a luxury. It's the same luxury people who are obsessed with racism share. Or transphobia, or (fill in the blank). If you have that kind of emotional energy to burn, you're likely not having to burn it at a lousy 50 hour a week job, or worrying about how you're gonna pay the rent, or buy groceries. You're likely an entitled student or an adult with misguided priorities. Or maybe you're a buddha-like figure, or Christ-like, and your energy and compassion know no bounds.

It's a hysteria, a social contagion, and generally speaking a phony affectation. It allows people to signal their virtue without ever having to demonstrate it. It's an easy path to social credit. Of the people droning on about Gaza all the time, I'd say most are just using it as a proxy to discharge the negative emotion they're feeling about personal issues. Or, there's no one in their inner orbit to share their emotional energy with, and it's being expressed in this manner.

I'm not a Zionist, whatever the f#ck that means. I'm just a guy with finite energy, observing and reporting on reality.

[Jaak]

In my opinion, the challenge we still often face is the good old "divide and conquer" approach. I try to avoid this trap by focusing on a single issue, regardless of the party representing it.

For example, a few weeks ago, I participated in a protest for peace in Ukraine. This protest was organized by the German Left, and Antifa (anti-fascist) groups also participated. Many people I know did not want to participate in this protest, not because they are pro war, but because they do not want to protest alongside Antifa. Do I support everything Antifa supports? Quite the opposite. During the alleged pandemic, many on the German Left—including Antifa—supported lockdowns and vaccination mandates. That's why I protested against these mandates (and as a result, against Antifa defending them) with some old-fashioned communists and right-wingers at the time.

As long as we cannot separate topics from parties or individuals, we will remain in the "divide and conquer" situation perfectly described in the movie "The Life of Brian":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4

I lived together and hanged out with anti-fa people from all over world when i lived in squats of Barcelona for 18 years .
From my experience 95% of them are total dimwits who dont read anything unless it supports their ideology . Self-destruction seems for them better than any kind of self improvement and society starts from individuals and that attitude amplifies to other areas.
When i sayd anything negative about Israel and what they are doing to Palestinians i would quickly be called a nazi . Same happened if you pointed out Soros or any other jewish billionaire who runs the show.
Now when its popular to be against israel they have largely also done so which is funny. Couple years ago anybody who was against israel in any way would be labeled fascist and nazi by those antifa people and might end up in hospital.
Big change happened after the Occupy Wall street (made by FBI) when class warfare (poor vs rich) got changed to left vs right . Make the peasants fight each other not their overlords... And so far it seems it has worked quite well. Divide and Conquer.
Much respect for Dennis to speak his mind when it is unpopular to do so. Im also untrustful when it comes to Trump or Musk or Putin etc just because i have read and researched them quite a lot and i largely agree with Dennis . They are all part of the cabal/NWO who aint your friends.
People need a saviour but only one who can save them is themself , not some crooked billionaire.
Dennis please dont leave , people might largely agree on things you dont but majority has never been right about anything and atleast in here you can speak your mind and present your thoughts without getting banned even if those thoughts and opinions dont match with the owner of forum. Big respect for Bill that he aint banning everybody or anybody who he disagrees with him as it is very common is most places in internet now. Echo-chambers everywhere.

[edina]

Dennis, I know the post is about me. How could I not? Didn't you see the irony in my post?:)

This should clear things up: in terms of my priority list, Gaza is hovering somewhere around the 1 million mark..which means as far as personal importance places it about 999,900 spots behind my hangnails and the dander that gets on my car after I wash it.

And in case that isn't clear enough, I'll just state plainly that I don't care about any of it. Not in any kind of personal way anyway. And it's not because I'm a cold, unfeeling guy or because I have a hole in my heart or whatever it is you said about chakras. I'm none of those things. I'm a softy actually. I cry when I watch undercover boss.

It's because I have no personal connection to it. It's because I live on the other side of the world. It's because I've never been there, I never will go there, I don't know anyone there, I likely never will know anyone there, the conflict has been going on since forever, the conflict shows no signs of slowing, there's nothing I can do about it, and it's not my fight. There are conflicts going on all over the world, and if I was determined to grieve them all I'm be weeping into my belly button 24 hours a day or shrieking uncontrollably along with those student protesters you love so much. No thanks.

I have no hard opinion on the conflict save that it's bad. Regardless, I still have to get up and go to work everyday and the rent has to be paid. Life goes on...no matter what is happening in the world and no matter how awful.

Emotion operates in concentric circles, meaning most people feel strongest about themselves and their immediate family..their boyfriends, girlfriends, wives, husbands, brothers, sisters, cousins etc. That's the first circle and the smallest. Next comes their friends and their immediate community. That's a slightly bigger circle. And it moves outward into the world, with each circle getting larger but less emotionally charged.

Emotion and energy are the same thing. You can't possibly care about what's going on on the other side of the world as much as you do your immediate family and community because no one has that kind of energy. If you find that your concentric circles of emotion have reached Gaza and you still have this huge reservoir of emotional energy to burn, it's not a sign of your virtue; it's a sign that you're emotionally dysregulated or that you're offering an abstraction the emotion and energy that you should have offered your family or friends or inner circle.

I feel badly about it all and share the sense of horror about it, but I refuse to join the queue of people climbing over each other to declare their undying concern for a conflict they imagine they know something about but generally do not. It's nothing but theatre. It's a form of sociopathy masquerading as compassion. I don't think you're able to separate the two.

Being obsessed with Gaza is a luxury. It's the same luxury people who are obsessed with racism share. Or transphobia, or (fill in the blank). If you have that kind of emotional energy to burn, you're likely not having to burn it at a lousy 50 hour a week job, or worrying about how you're gonna pay the rent, or buy groceries. You're likely an entitled student or an adult with misguided priorities. Or maybe you're a buddha-like figure, or Christ-like, and your energy and compassion know no bounds.

It's a hysteria, a social contagion, and generally speaking a phony affectation. It allows people to signal their virtue without ever having to demonstrate it. It's an easy path to social credit. Of the people droning on about Gaza all the time, I'd say most are just using it as a proxy to discharge the negative emotion they're feeling about personal issues. Or, there's no one in their inner orbit to share their emotional energy with, and it's being expressed in this manner.

I'm not a Zionist, whatever the f#ck that means. I'm just a guy with finite energy, observing and reporting on reality.

Mike, sometimes I'm blown away with your clarity of thought and self-awareness, your capacity to communicate the mundane messiness of humanity in a distinctly compassionate way.
I imagine most people find themselves feeling just like you described here. It's real. It's authentic. And, gives pause to really think this through.
I find there are no easy answers.

[edina]

Hmm...

Is this thread an example of the famous Trump Derangement Syndrome?

Note: I am a newcomer, and don't know much of your older histories.

Peace, friends!

Maybe, but in this case, I don't think so.
It's a pattern of behavior that existed well before the advent of Trump Derangement Syndrome, (TDS).

[Gemma13]

"And that, boys and girls, is the end of my participation in this thread."

Ah Dennis, so predictable. My toddler could never outperform your look-at-me tantrum before slamming the door to have a good 'ol sulk.

Yeah, I see ya, peeking out... come on now, come back. It's your game of tug-of-war after all.

No? Not enough numbers on your side of the rope yet?

With your insider information why let that bother you... oh wait, hasn't Gods email with superpower activation codes and confirmation that you're the returned flame of Jesus come through yet?

Sheesh, no wonder we're the bad guys getting tossed around the temple and issued early judgement cards. Thanks for the heads up buddy. I'll definitely consider your head space for, I dunno, 30 seconds.

[Jim_Duyer]

I often wonder why, Dennis, we have the starving Palestinian child at all - don't their fellow Islamic folks from super-rich countries kick in anything? Oh, they do? Then who steals it? For weapons? So whose fault is that then?
What seems to be happening is that, like the constant, bleating reply of "we suffered a Holocaust, that's why" from the Jews, we have the bomb-shelled and broke Palestinian kids.
So, just like the Jews, who get much more sympathy than they deserve IMHO, we are equating, it seems, starving Palestinians with some need or desire to make it up to them by allowing the Muslims to get away with practically anything, in our own countries.
IMHO neither side is Holy, Correct, Pure or even decent, in this mess. But we simply can not allow this to become, like the Holocaust, a reason to allow them to impose their stupid religious crap on us. Or their politics, or their economics (or lack of), or their communist sympathies.

[mountain_jim]

In the words of the Battlestar Galactica finale, this thread is a recurrent pattern


All this has happened before, and all this will happen again

(and I have been here for 14.5 years and 2 years auditing before that.

That's one month before Dennis for those keeping count.)

As I have responded to him in the past, one can have the view that Trump was absolutely the best option for trying to save the good ole USA as a functioning nation in each of the 3 elections for which I voted for him -

while abhorring the control that the Zionists appear to have over him and this country, from the 1948 Rothschild strong-arming the US allowing the taking away of the land of Palestinians and creating Isreal, to covering up 9/11's true nature, to suppressing the truth of the daily atrocities committed by the Zionists as they continue to go against every legal framework to remove every last non-Zionist from the lands well beyond even that agreed to in that terrible agreement.

One can even be entertained by Trump's excessive, master-troller personality on the world stage, and still have concerns about where all this may end up.

One can also view his rise as supported by a secretive white-hat group with intent to out the corruption and preserve our remaining freedoms, and one can even hope that the Q movement he clearly leverages and acts as a participant of might have some real meaning behind:

March 10, 2018 Drop #916

https://i0.wp.com/radiopatriot.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/screen-shot-2019-09-07-at-5.07.25-pm.png?resize=744%2C140&ssl=1

In my humble opinion, these views do not and did not contribute to the decline of Avalon that Dennis always decries in these semiannual eruptions, and many members that took their ball and went elsewhere did exhibit TDS and leftist or 'purist libertarian' views that have this idealized concept of never working within any of these systems for the needed changes, or perhaps like Dennis were pining for some enlightened Reset Button to appear and allow us to push it, thus fixing everything.

Other members were aghast at some of us pointing out the pharma-fascist nature of the poison covid jabs and left over that, to join a community where no dissent from their prevailing views was tolerated.

Consider where this country would be now with puppet Kamala following non-conscious Biden, with secretive, intent upon US-destruction controllers still in power while censoring every alternative viewpoint, as the UK is now.

.....

(and I contribute financially to Avalon at least twice a year and don't need Dennis telling me how much I should be contributing based on my judgements concerning which voting levers to push to improve citizens' lives in the good ole USA.)

[Bill Ryan]

Dear Friends,

Let's all cool it just a little. :heart::)

Let me share just one or two more things!


I regard Dennis as one of my closest friends on the forum. He's been here forever, has been a moderator several times when we very urgently needed a hand, and he has a heart of gold. That alone may help us understand why he feels quite a few things so very strongly which he sees happening in the world. (And besides being a dedicated friend of the forum, he'd be a willing friend of anyone else who might ever need one at the time.)



Dennis and I don't agree 100% about absolutely everything, but that doesn't matter. (And neither should it between friends.)



Dennis wrote "unconditional support for Trump and the Zionists has destroyed the vibe of the Project Avalon forum" — but as many reading this may be fully aware, there's no such "unconditional support" for either. In fact, I'd argue strongly that there's not a single active member supporting Zionism here, though one or two (maybe no more than that) are generally sympathetic to Israel.



I don't think there's a single active Avalon member about whom I could ever once say: "I don't like them". On the contrary, there are dozens whom I very greatly admire. We are far more united by what we care about and understand than by whatever we might temporarily disagree about.



I think what does characterize the Avalon community is its profound awareness and care for the serious problems (and sometimes alarmingly dystopian possibilities) that face not only all humans but all living things on the planet.



In this post (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114491-WW3-Ukraine-US-vs.-Donbass-Russia&p=1669999&viewfull=1#post1669999) on the WW3/Ukraine/Russia thread, norman referred to "a view from orbit". Amen to that. :flower:


:focus: (whatever that is! :P)

[rgray222]

Dennis
I admire your ability to open the door and lob in a percussion grenade before slamming the door closed. The sh$t-eating grin on your face must be ear to ear. Don't get me wrong, your posts are always well written, entertaining and fun to read, but this time you have surpassed yourself; this post was unparalleled clickbait. You may have shaken the island paradise of the western seas for a very brief moment, but I don't think you destroyed the vibe, nor was it destroyed before your grenade discharged. I think the joint needs a little spice and a brief tectonic shake from time to time, so you are to be applauded. Bravo

If everyone walks the same path day after day eventually people will stop coming out to play.

[Rawhide68]

Why not just do what Dennis pointed out in the top of this thread :sun:

"simply shaking the tree, asking EVERYONE, members and visitors, to donate some money TODAY to Bill and the forum. Not tomorrow, today. Bill needs it now (thus the "lunchbox" reference in the title.) Go re-read the Project Avalon mission statement if you need to, or at least stop and realize what a treasure it is to have a place in cyberspace to explore topics that are censored or verboten elsewhere"

[edina]

I remember when the Avalon Mission Statement was a bit different than this, but this is the current version (https://www.projectavalon.net/):

The principal purpose of the Avalon Forum:
To encourage and support positive, constructive, and high quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience.

(bolded emphasis is mine)

A Donate button is on that page, as well, for any who feel ready to donate.

Bill, Dennis mentioned some issues with Paypal? What's happening with that?

Also I want to thank you for your clarifying statement here:



Dennis wrote "unconditional support for Trump and the Zionists has destroyed the vibe of the Project Avalon forum" — but as many reading this may be fully aware, there's no such "unconditional support" for either. In fact, I'd argue strongly that there's not a single active member supporting Zionism here, though one or two (maybe no more than that) are generally sympathetic to Israel.


Hyperbole by Dennis, maybe? (That's rhetorical, no one needs to answer that, some personality types tend toward hyperbole, and/or exaggeration, Trump being of that personality type, himself. He's often misunderstood in that way, each personality type has it's pros and cons.)

Are you concerned with the smaller active membership on the forum?

I don't think there needs to be a blame game. Different people disengage for many different reasons. As far as the repeated accusation regarding the Q thread. I remember seeing half the active membership drop from an average of around 300, to 150ish average, when the Q thread was put behind a members only wall. It's probably a matter of people's personal perception as to how they read it.

I've noticed these things happen in waves, and that there's an ebb and flow to engagement.

If people treat each other well, and with common decency and respect, and the conversations and information stay interesting, I think Avalon will continue to do well.

For some people, Avalon is much like family. And that has real world value, as far as I'm concerned.

[Johnnycomelately]

Dennis the Menace, please quit trying to stoke fear in this forum. Why didn’t you post this screed in bojancan’s thread TINTA? You pair would make great buddies.

I’m so full of counter-battery (artillery reference) this morning, not only do I forgive this neglect of God’s infinite wisdom, but I will send you a kind of a love potion-thought, intending for you to feel better.

Cheers stranger!

Not often that I fully align with Bill’s takes, but this made me laugh too.[/FONT][/COLOR]
Fascinating rebuttal, Johnny. Very insightful. What is your favorite color?

And that, boys and girls, is the end of my participation in this thread.


I’ve noticed that Dennis has honoured me, with his last words on this thread, so far. Thank you, my cosmic stranger buddy!

Funny to me, that you asked my favorite colour. It actually changes, depending on what I’m looking for. Right now, since I’m looking for you to lighten up, I’d say fuchsia. But you can keep your heavy accents of black. They work together well.

Cheers again, my weirdo buddy-stranger! 🖤

[ExomatrixTV]

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/icons/icon3.png Before you Judge...
Before you Judge... "W.O.N.D.E.R.!"

W - is it Wise?
O - is it Open Minded?
N - is it Needed?
D - is it "Drama"-based?
E - is it Empathic?
R - is it Real?

Before you Speak... "T.H.I.N.K.!"

T - is it True?
H - is it Helpful?
I - is it Inspiring?
N - is it Necessary?
K - is it Kind?

Before you Act... "F.E.E.L.!"

F - is it Fair?
E - is it Emotional?
E - is it Ego-driven?
L - is it out of Love?

cheers,
John Kuhles (https://substack.com/@johnkuhles) 🦜🦋🌳




For all people who are really "ahead of their times" ...


Who will be known to be vindicated in the (near) future many times, may already feel that specific vibe right now, thus strengthened by it ... So much so that there are no real "worries" about "being laughed at" ... As it will be their karma not doing anything about the insights that turned out to be correct.

Let's say somebody assumes "you can not prove anything you claim", meanwhile it is happening ... unfolding day by day ... Why on Earth does that person refuse to ask: "How did you know?" ... What psychological mechanism is at play here? ... Especially when you get vindicated, so many still refuse to apologize nor want to find out more about your "visionary" gifts.

Some of the "key ingredients" of having such a gift are in my view: 01. Living in self-honesty, 02. Always having antenna open that things could be different from what it appears to be ... 03. Willingness to learn new insights ... 04. Not lying to yourself ("to fit in") 05. Having a genuine inquiring mind. 06. Not mind being corrected if need be (learning from mistakes) 07. Not being afraid to be different from the vast majority. 08. Truly care for people's well-being 09. Having an authentic sense of wonderment (like a child does) 10. Not projecting own shortcomings/incompetence/fears on others.


Now imagine that the "future you" is all that and the "present you" too ... if you receive anything from your "future (multidimensional) you" it has to be like that.

In my view, anything less would not work ... and anyone who does not have these standards may not want to find out how to live like that because it can be very confrontational to live like that... it takes tremendous courage and sometimes big sacrifices to be able to stay in your integrity ... which is almost always connected to how you see yourself in all that is happening in our world.

So, the question about "negative time" ... What is your "state of being" reading the 10 points (there are actually more) now that can be picked up in the past and months later from now the same question remains and years later same question! ... See, we all can start making a feedback loop depending on your "state of being" taking more responsibility for your quality of thinking, reasoning & "judging (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120132-Before-you-Judge...)".


When people are in a state of fear, they may occasionally predict/foresee future events correctly, but that is not what I am talking about.

What I am describing here is a multifaceted process of all levels of "being" ... including doing "rational based" research, including verifying things, including triple checking assumptions, including seeking contradictions when they appear, including questioning own assumptions ... When doing that, some of it will be "guided" through intuitive means and that is 100% connected to the 10 points I just shared here :)

Hopefully people can relate and resonate what I am trying to explain today, because I feel strongly connected to my "future self" every day, which is (also according to Teal Swan) not always "fun" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAnmM8N3jt8) to have ... it takes a lot of self-knowledge, knowing your weaknesses and working on it to overcome them! ... Am sure that I am not the only one that acts like that or feels that way.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[ExomatrixTV]

...

Avalonians (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/memberlist.php?order=desc&sort=posts&pp=999) :Avalon: will recognize/resonate with most of these personality traits I summed up below, as outsiders may only recognize/resonate with some of it:

01. Being ahead of time ... How you know you are "ahead of time"? ... Simple: Count how many times you are vindicated last decades! (or years).

02. No fear of being called out, >>> as truth, never fears to be questioned!

03. Understanding how "group psychology" works in any form ... Staying in your own integrity & self-honesty is KEY!

04. Allowing yourself to surprise yourself, going beyond dwelling in self-pity


Always having an antenna open that:

A. things could be (very) different from what you think it is ...
B. things could be (very) different from how it appears to be (how it is sold to us by anyone!)
C. things could be (very) different from what you assume "how it is".

05. Being aware how (sometimes) self-deception works and why ... in many forms, depending on where you are and who you're working with.

06. Being aware how (sometimes) self-sabotage works and why!

07. No need to be told: "what to think" but rather: "how to think/reason" by asking much better (deeper) questions! That is beyond the mass induced / pushed narratives.

08. Understanding human history, especially the human conditioning, that is beyond what "history books at schools" teaches.

09. Being aware that in the world of the paranormal, many seem to love to "jump to conclusions" falsely assuming: "it must be mind control" or "demons" projecting their own fears on that of what they do not really comprehend.

10. Being an "outcast" within the "normalcy bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias)" people that mostly promotes more "new normal (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118748-Top-10-Creepiest-Most-Dystopian-Things-Pushed-By-The-World-Economic-Forum)" insanity!

11. Putting some effort to dig (much) deeper in any controversial topic at hand with ease! ... Having the skills to do so more effectively.

12. Willingness to learn something new! ... Which seems a super obvious, very healthy quality ... But sadly enough, so many "normals" do not ask real inquiring questions to learn something new, but rather want their preconceived ideas/"conclusions" to be reaffirmed! ... Thus, do not really listen nor want to understand/comprehend what you have to offer! <<< This psychological mechanism (behavior) is exactly what most Avalonians (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/memberlist.php?order=desc&sort=posts&pp=999) loathe!

13. Having access to a vast network of alternative media sources, knowing that none of them are flawless, but at least they are more free to ask & discuss the right (more intelligent) questions!

14. Being beyond mass censorship (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80790-Internet-Censorship-So-it-began...) ... Knowing how corrupt "fact-checkers sites" operate.

15. Being aware that everybody can be a victim of a psy-op ... but that does not mean you are a "psy-op" >>> and accusatory claims (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?121234-Accusatory-Claims-in-a-Controversial-Conspiracy-Research-World) of being "controlled opposition (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117528-When-an-Accusation-like-Controlled-Opposition-loses-its-value-)" has been shown dead wrong over and over and over again!

16. Knowing the history of (declassified (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declassification)) Government "False Flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag) Type Operations" and why they did it and still do to this day!

17. When you had personal "unexplained" strange experiences that changed/shaped your view of the world!... Questioning "reality" ... Even learn how to question literally everything, especially your own (deep-rooted) assumptions! ... This personal "quest for truth" allows you to be more often wiser and more alert of how Psychology of Totalitarianism (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?119992-The-Psychology-of-Totalitarianism) really works ... Having an antidote (being immune) against Mass Formation Psychosis (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?119992-The-Psychology-of-Totalitarianism) 24/7.

18. Knowing who the real pioneers in the past were who exposed so many things, that is happening right now (globally!).

19. Having a better understanding who you really are in context of all the mass deceptions that are going on almost all levels.

20. Having a sense of reaching out to like-minded (spiritual minded) people from all walks of life, sharing thoughts/ideas/tips how to deal with what is coming and what is happening right now!

21. Knowing the difference between healthy skepticism (as trust has to be earned not blindly given) vs pseudo skeptics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism)

22. Never lose having a genuine "sense of wonder" like a child seeing things for the first time.

23. Knowing that the concept of a Prime Creator is, in my view, way bigger & beyond any man-made (and/or alien-made and/or a.i. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102409-A.I.-is-Progressing-Faster-Than-You-Think-) made) religions to serve human/alien/a.i. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102409-A.I.-is-Progressing-Faster-Than-You-Think-) based corrupted agendas with psychopathic control freaks (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118748-Top-10-Creepiest-Most-Dystopian-Things-Pushed-By-The-World-Economic-Forum) at the top ... and any deity that "needs" to be worshiped is a big red flag to begin with!


There is so much more I can write here, but I stop for now, ... maybe I will add some more by editing this reply/post later on! ... So: "to be continued" ... :typing:

cheers,
John Kuhles (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/tags.php?tag=john+kuhles) 🦜🦋🌳

somehow related forum threads:


My Perspectives dealing with the use of the label 'Far Right' by Mainstream Media (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?124115-My-Perspectives-dealing-with-the-use-of-the-label-Far-Right-by-Mainstream-Media)
What are 'Truthers' in the Truth Movement Really? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?123697-What-are-Truthers-in-the-Truth-Movement-Really)
15 Unavoidable Questions Haunting Me As A Classic Liberal Every Day! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122120-15-Unavoidable-Questions-Haunting-Me-As-A-Classic-Liberal-Every-Day-)
Is Alternative Media a form of Group Therapy? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?122019-Is-Alternative-Media-a-form-of-Group-Therapy)
When Accusations like 'Controlled Opposition' loses its value! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117528-When-an-Accusation-like-Controlled-Opposition-loses-its-value-)

[thepainterdoug]

I really dont care much about what was said here in this post other than, donate to the forum, which I will do again . Thanks for the reminder.

And let me remind you all , the choice was DJT or Biden and Harris, Biden and Harris Biden and Harris. !!! Let that ring along with the WEF global agenda , the WHO and all the other despicable players who were pulling the Biden Harris autopen strings

[onawah]

The problem with that imho is that far too many people were much too accommodating and accepting of being given only the choice of the lesser of two evils.

And let me remind you all , the choice was DJT or Biden and Harris, Biden and Harris Biden and Harris. !!! Let that ring along with the WEF global agenda , the WHO and all the other despicable players who were pulling the Biden Harris autopen strings

[thepainterdoug]

Onawah I get it, so what was actionable? Write in a candidate?

I dont agree with the assessment people are making regarding Trump. Let me ask you?

WHO WAS GIVEN THE GREEN LIGHT TO ALLOW BIDEN CRIMINAL GANG 15 MILLION ILLEGALS INTO THE COUNTRY? Who of "we the people "said, yeah Joe, go ahead and flood the country with illegals. WHO?

So now we sitback in reflection in the, well um ,that already happened, and this guy Trump is trying to persecute people By returning to the rule of law. What a joke

I dont mind what anyone thinks and what their opinion is if they can live it. And all the fake liberal democrats didnt want any of them near them. All phonies.

[norman]

Regarding the OP, part 2 . . . .

Don't call them Zionists. That name is just a heat decoy name for Satanists.

If you simply call them Satanists, you'll know better and more clearly which team to get yourself on, instead of clamouring to be the most politically correct lost soul.

[onawah]

I was all for closing the borders, but that is only one issue. What C.A. Fitts and Whitney Webb have been disclosing about Trump/CBDC is very disquieting.

Onawah I get it, so what was actionable? Write in a candidate?

I dont agree with the assessment people are making regarding Trump. Let me ask you?

WHO WAS GIVEN THE GREEN LIGHT TO ALLOW BIDEN CRIMINAL GANG 15 MILLION ILLEGALS INTO THE COUNTRY? Who of "we the people "said, yeah Joe, go ahead and flood the country with illegals. WHO?

So now we sitback in reflection in the, well um ,that already happened, and this guy Trump is trying to persecute people By returning to the rule of law. What a joke

I dont mind what anyone thinks and what their opinion is if they can live it. And all the fake liberal democrats didnt want any of them near them. All phonies.

[edina]

onawah, I agree, it's very much like we dodge one bullet but have several more headed straight at us.

There's a LOT of moving parts to stay aware of and alert to, while also still trying to simply live life and be better humans.

[Bright Skies]

Thank you for your posts Dennis.

Although some members did not appreciate your posts and lambasted you, there are some that understand you.

Even though I have always read much more than I post, I also miss the original vibe of the Project Avalon forum and I hope it returns one day.

The original Project Avalon (https://projectavalon.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=85) forum was first established in 2008. It was then moved to the current forum (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forum.php) in 2010.

(I think I have those years correct.)

In that time, especially in the last decade, I have observed that segments of the alternative field have drastically changed and the knock-on effects and influences are apparent here too.

David Icke describes this change as the following:

"A lot of people have come into the alternative arena from the mainstream and they've basically regressed it, and some who were here before, into left-right politics."

And in my opinion what this "regression" has done is create a paradigm of control where politicians and world leaders are again divided into 'good guys' and 'bad guys' (to use your terms). In some cases personalities within the alternative field have become subservient devotees to the apparent 'good guys' and they dare not question their actions.

This was unheard of a decade ago in the alternative field.

Can they be so sure that the apparent 'good guys' are not deceivers and are not working on behalf of the same old forces as before?



What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9


I wish all of you the very best on your journeys.

[Bill Ryan]

Thank you for your posts Dennis.

Although some members did not appreciate your posts and lambasted you, there are some that understand you.

Even though I have always read much more than I post, I also miss the original vibe of the Project Avalon forum and I hope it returns one day.

The original Project Avalon (https://projectavalon.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=85) forum was first established in 2008. It was then moved to the current forum (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forum.php) in 2010.

(I think I have those years correct.)

In that time, especially in the last decade, I have observed that segments of the alternative field have drastically changed and the knock-on effects and influences are apparent here too.

David Icke describes this change as the following:

"A lot of people have come into the alternative arena from the mainstream and they've basically regressed it, and some who were here before, into left-right politics."

And in my opinion what this "regression" has done is create a paradigm of control where politicians and world leaders are again divided into 'good guys' and 'bad guys' (to use your terms). In some cases personalities within the alternative field have become subservient devotees to the apparent 'good guys' and they dare not question their actions.

This was unheard of a decade ago in the alternative field.

Can they be so sure that the apparent 'good guys' are not deceivers and are not working on behalf of the same old forces as before?



What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
I wish all of you the very best on your journeys.~~~

Dear Bright Skies (and everyone else! :heart:), as I've mentioned quite a few times, we have over 100,000 threads on (literally!) every topic under the sun and beyond.

There are literally thousands of threads on the forum about beauty, philosophy, spirituality, nature, creativity, profound personal experiences, health and wellness, ancient history, non-human intelligence, and every aspect of the human condition.

And that's just a very partial list. I contribute to them all, and bump them whenever it seems relevant. Every other active member can add value and interest to all those topics any time they want to.

Always remember, as in any community: This forum is what we all make it.

For me, and I think for many others, all the above together make up the very healthy and strong beating heart of the community. (And to add one more time, if I may: the vast majority of the members, if not every single one of them, are deeply anti-Zionism.)

US Politics is just one of many topics that some (though not all!) people feel they care about. But as more of a view from orbit, I'd like to remind my friends here of two threads which I do feel are a useful reminder to us all:


Shiny Object Syndrome (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129467-Shiny-Object-Syndrome)
Watching the Reality Show (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129305-Watching-the-Reality-Show)

In life, what comes to us is so often what we have our attention on — whether that's positive or negative.

I'm sure we have threads about that too! :) :grouphug: :heart2:

[Raskolnikov]

I've watched this forum since it's inception as I voraciously devoured all interviews from Project Camelot back in my early waking days. It was invigorating finding others who were waking up back then and determined to get to the truth, no matter the cost. Truth above all else. The bad guys vs. the good guys rings a little simplistic for me, and now suspect it's more the "I was just doing my job" minions, and a healthy dose of the blackmailed and controlled in positions that could make a difference but don't.

The left/right division has been excellently crafted and wreaks havoc even here on this forum. I'm sure some of you will remember Pris' take on the Trump issue, a force to be reckoned with for sure, a real tiger for Trump, but I never let that get in the way of our unique friendship. She thought I was a liberal because I wasn't for Trump (and I am, in the classical sense, "liber" translating to "free" as in liberty and liberation.) And if you read the classical philosophers as well as the founding fathers of America, they all understood that the state was always hell bent on tyranny and that restricting it to the simplest tasks of protecting our freedoms was priority number one, that any power gained was never relinquished, that any freedoms lost were never regained. Distrust of those in positions of power was the norm and still should be. I will trust a President when he's not the president of a corporation but a true representative of the people again (even then I probably won't trust them as power has a way of corrupting in this life.)

I know many of you have a long and sometimes sordid history considering the importance of so many of the topics discussed here. It's been a pleasure reading many of your posts over the years and thank you for your research in the pursuit of truth. Just my two cents, stay focused on the truth no matter what and don't fall for the division they expertly create in the field of politics to keep us fighting each other and not the "bad guys." Yes, I think there are bad guys, but we all have it in us...

[mountain_jim]

Always remember, as in any community: This forum is what we all make it.

For me, and I think for many others, all the above together make up the very healthy and strong beating heart of the community. (And to add one more time, if I may: the vast majority of the members, if not every single one of them, are deeply anti-Zionism.)

US Politics is just one of many topics that some (though not all!) people feel they care about. But as more of a view from orbit, I'd like to remind my friends here of two threads which I do feel are a useful reminder to us all:
Shiny Object Syndrome
Watching the Reality Show
In life, what comes to us is so often what we have our attention on — whether that's positive or negative.



Hello Bill

"Shiny Object Syndrome"?

Just wanted to mention that (as I recall) a few years ago, you suggested that those of us living in the USA might want to leave if at all possible.

I replied that due to aging parents and other considerations, there was no way that was possible for me, and I felt I was here in the US to do what I could to salvage this country and preserve our way of life as much as possible.

Watching the shocking things that happened over the previous 4 years, researching and spreading views and information related to the corruption in US politics and government and attempts to weaken and destroy this country from within and without, became one of my primary motivations for my Avalon activity.

In hopes these efforts were not just reaching members but also many who browse anonymously, and contributing to what I hope and intend is a great awakening to many Truths, but starting at the US political and legal systems' systemic rot evidence and attempts and intentions to suppress freedom of body and speech.

If nothing else, Trump's MAGA focus and appointments contribute in my view to this needed awakening and positive change.

Hopefully in some small way my posting activity has also, but I also have major interests in many other areas of hidden truths and conspiracies that need exposure discussed on this forum.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I will never be cowed by peer pressure. I will always cheer for the underdog hero. I paint my own picture of reality.

No one has a grasp of the reality we are thrust into. Therefore, no one can be relied upon to present a holistic picture that encompasses the entirety of reality in a neat tidy package.

Therefore my views are as valid as any other. The hard part is any other view is just as valid as my own.


I am only interested in the Big Picture, nothing else. But that means I must be interested in many many topics, and comprehend them enough to establish a fundamental knowledge baseline. Most do not do that, preferring to dive deep into a singular topic and become expert.

I am no expert, but I am a ravenous collector of obscurities and exceptions - they are my guide.
The unique is my inspiration.


I have had many instances where I have not only disagreed but hated. It has been my personal goal to love the one I hate, and I have been mostly successful.
I have no one on my ignore list, and I read their posts without comment.
It is very difficult to do, but I am happy with my progress.

God bless one and all.
Thanks for letting me be a part of this fantastic place!

And a sincere apology to all those who still hold a grudge against some trespass I might have initiated in my blundering enthusiasm.
Like everyone here, I only mean the best, but often fall short of the mark.

They tell me I'm just human...

[Mike]

I will never be cowed by peer pressure. I will always cheer for the underdog hero. I paint my own picture of reality.

No one has a grasp of the reality we are thrust into. Therefore, no one can be relied upon to present a holistic picture that encompasses the entirety of reality in a neat tidy package.

Therefore my views are as valid as any other. The hard part is any other view is just as valid as my own.


I am only interested in the Big Picture, nothing else. But that means I must be interested in many many topics, and comprehend them enough to establish a fundamental knowledge baseline. Most do not do that, preferring to dive deep into a singular topic and become expert.

I am no expert, but I am a ravenous collector of obscurities and exceptions - they are my guide.
The unique is my inspiration.


I have had many instances where I have not only disagreed but hated. It has been my personal goal to love the one I hate, and I have been mostly successful.
I have no one on my ignore list, and I read their posts without comment.
It is very difficult to do, but I am happy with my progress.

God bless one and all.
Thanks for letting me be a part of this fantastic place!

And a sincere apology to all those who still hold a grudge against some trespass I might have initiated in my blundering enthusiasm.
Like everyone here, I only mean the best, but often fall short of the mark.

They tell me I'm just human...


Hi Ernie, I've always enjoyed reading your views and admire your willingness to take on awkward subjects honestly. This post is no different.

I'd just push back a little on the idea that all views are as equally valid as each other, just because some views are clearly not as valid as others. If I said you have 4 arms, that would be an invalid view and not as valid as the view that you have 2. That sounds like a silly example, I know, but I feel compelled to bring it up simply because of my extreme allergy to the postmodern claim that all views are equally valid (I don't think you were trying to make a postmodern statement here, and I think I do grok the spirit of your post, but the OCD demon on my shoulder is making me write all this).

The notion of competing views being equally valid on sprawling and nuanced events like the war in Gaza becomes harder to dissect. This is where your claim really has legs, and I generally agree with it. I think intelligent people can disagree about the situation in Gaza. Dennis doesn't think so. He believes that everyone that disagrees with him on this (or Trump, or anything related) is a soulless, unfeeling Zionist. He can't conceive of a world in which he might be even a little wrong about any of this (Note: and as Bill has pointed out several times, Avalon is largely sympathetic with the Palestinian cause!:) ..which makes Dennis' rant here even harder to understand).

Here in the United States (and I know elsewhere) we are simultaneously being trained to hate our own country, all while being bludgeoned into obsessively caring about other countries on the other side of the world. Like everything else in this current culture, it's completely upside down. I view it as a likely psy-op, so I approach these world conflicts first with my head and much later with my heart.

Maybe I am unfeeling in some way. Or ignorant. Maybe Dennis is right. I've been called sociopathic and narcissistic too over my views on the topic. I'm introspective, and I've considered it. I don't think we should ever assume the best about ourselves; we should always be probing our intentions. But I concluded I'm neither of those things because sociopaths and narcissists don't sit around and fret over whether they're sociopaths or narcissists. Ignorant? Yeah, somewhat. I don't know enough about the conflict to be making confident assertions about it, generally speaking.

A Zionist? I don't find the term useful really. I think there are globalists who exploit the Jewish cause for their own ends, but I just call them globalists. I don't have to think too much about that one - I'm not a globalist.

Here's the thing: I care about my country, and that's about it. I hope all the other countries prosper as well, but I only really care about mine. That seems like a common sense approach, but it will earn you the title "nationalist" here. But guess what? That word doesn't offend me at all; I embrace it. I am a nationalist, and a proud one. And there are plenty of tragedies here that require our attention and energy. I'm not saying we shouldn't have compassion towards international tragedy; I'm simply saying we should turn most of our compassion inward and take care of our own first. And that sums up my feeling about it all.

[onawah]

Adding Dr. Joseph Farrell, which makes the third in the trio of whistleblowers I find to be most clued in and reliable, the other two being Fitts and Webb.
What has yet to be included in the discussion nearly enough (if at all) is the disaster that will occur if and when the electric grid goes down, if the majority of transactions are taking place online.
A disaster in the making, and the odds of that happening are on the rise as the magnetosphere diminishes.


Joseph P. Farrell | News and Views from the Nefarium | May 29, 2025

Source: gizadeathstar.com (http://gizadeathstar.com)

5q-BzxFDSMU

Description:

Joseph sounds off on some looming policy problems with Mr. Trump's second administration:

Article:

Trump & Bitcoin a Disaster in the Making (https://www.theburningplatform.com/2025/05/28/trump-bitcoin-a-disaster-in-the-making/)

I was all for closing the borders, but that is only one issue. What C.A. Fitts and Whitney Webb have been disclosing about Trump/CBDC is very disquieting.

Onawah I get it, so what was actionable? Write in a candidate?

I dont agree with the assessment people are making regarding Trump. Let me ask you?

WHO WAS GIVEN THE GREEN LIGHT TO ALLOW BIDEN CRIMINAL GANG 15 MILLION ILLEGALS INTO THE COUNTRY? Who of "we the people "said, yeah Joe, go ahead and flood the country with illegals. WHO?

So now we sitback in reflection in the, well um ,that already happened, and this guy Trump is trying to persecute people By returning to the rule of law. What a joke

I dont mind what anyone thinks and what their opinion is if they can live it. And all the fake liberal democrats didnt want any of them near them. All phonies.

[Bill Ryan]

Adding Dr. Joseph Farrell, which makes the third in the trio of whistleblowers I find to be most clued in and reliable, the other two being Fitts and Webb. I might also suggest Pepe Escobar and Alastair Crooke for real-time political analysis. (Closely followed by Jeffrey Sachs ad Alexander Mercouris.)

[lunaflare]

Maybe I am unfeeling in some way. Or ignorant. Maybe Dennis is right. Nope. Nope. Nope.

I enjoy your posts; your critically thinking mind. Dennis does not express nuance---shades of grey. His posts rub me the wrong way as the intention is to divide.

It has indeed become fashionable to hate the U.S.A. It is cool, like hating one's parents. It is an immature way to view things and a convenient projection when one is wrestling with reality and wanting to control an outcome (where there is immediate gratification).
The pendulum is constantly swinging between light and shadow. Dark Ages and Ages of Enlightenment; Kali Yuga, Golden Age...paradigm shifting movements have risen in the land of stars n stripes.

Continuing that similie, I don't think people really hate their country. There is something the soul knows, being born into a particular land in a particular point in time; like a child wants to belong and understand their parents. it sounds simplistic, but the experience is gritty and full of mystery...

[Raskolnikov]

wrestling with reality

Thank you lunaflare, that is beautiful, "gritty and full of mystery..."

[Merkaba360]

Maybe I am unfeeling in some way. Or ignorant. Maybe Dennis is right. Nope. Nope. Nope.

I enjoy your posts; your critically thinking mind. Dennis does not express nuance---shades of grey. His posts rub me the wrong way as the intention is to divide.

It has indeed become fashionable to hate the U.S.A. It is cool, like hating one's parents. It is an immature way to view things and a convenient projection when one is wrestling with reality and wanting to control an outcome (where there is immediate gratification).
The pendulum is constantly swinging between light and shadow. Dark Ages and Ages of Enlightenment; Kali Yuga, Golden Age...paradigm shifting movements have risen in the land of stars n stripes.

Continuing that similie, I don't think people really hate their country. There is something the soul knows, being born into a particular land in a particular point in time; like a child wants to belong and understand their parents. it sounds simplistic, but the experience is gritty and full of mystery...


Yea, He accuses us of being absolutists blindly worshipping the ground Mr. T walks on and then rants his absolutists views that Trump is a pure sociopathic evil being 100% with the dark satanic forces that are doing sacrificial rituals to partner with the dark powers beyond our ordinary senses. 100% sociopath means he cares nothing for any of us or his family - almost surely false.

People run their mouth when there are no consequences. That's why the devil over my shoulder would love to make bets with people to put something behind their claims. Loser has to spend a year imprisoned to a modest apartment immediately after death (not too harsh) lol You have to perform a ritual and write down the words and speak your will of the desired consequence upon losing the bet. That would shut a lot of people up in regards to pretending to be so sure of themselves. That's the only solution i can come up with, but morally I guess I couldn't do it, cuz i'd likely be undefeated and imprisoning many loud mouths lol.

I'd absolutely take that bet , cuz its obvious Mr. T has some deep love for this country that gave him a great luxurious life. He has been complaining about how annoying it is to see his country get screwed in so many deals since the 80s, sine he obviously knows they are selling us out. Mr. T has 1 foot in the swamp and one foot out. I'd take a sociopath who loves his country ( which means he doesn't give a damn about anyone else, any other elite who wants to destroy this country) over satanic sellouts who will sacrifice children to get their wish to burn down USA. That's the problem, we look bad being delighted to see anyone make positive changes, cuz everything is relative to monster psychopaths, it might not look all roses.

I'm fine with not defeating the globalists for now if it means the satanic faction is exposed and taken out.

I don't feel any negative turn in this forum since 2011. Our imagination creates all kinds of bad feelings that makes the vibe turn bad for that particular person. Often its their delusion.

Its not about Trump. Its about the prez having to run on OUR platform in order to win. He campaigned and shouted many of the things the spiritual and truther people have been shouting forever. Even if they are half azzing the follow thru of what we want, its a big deal and sets a new precedent. Not to mention brings far more awareness to our concerns and causes that the up and comer adults will start to open up to. Or the unaware republicans who will start to see some of what the truthers see cuz they want to agree with their teammates. lol

I'm well aware of the bad thats still going on as the new guard has taken over. But thats baseline and been going on forever. Not much clearly getting worse like previous admins.

Sorry if im going to cheer for the things that are improving. Exposure of all the insane govt fraud spending, the attacks on big pharma and cartels and DEI and woke and child abuse. The removal of many food poisons, Fluoride, chemtrails, etc.

So, no matter if things get worse or better it is always the globalists? lol Someday i'll be berated for supporting a globalist utopia cuz some people enjoyed the evolutionary benefits of the dark ages :)

Its NOT about Trump. This is the collective consciousness breaking the old patterns. The globalists have no choice but to roll with it and will claim its all their doing but its not. They are sociopaths remember, impossible they all get along . Infighting yay.

Sorry but my country was falling fast and im happy to see an attempt to reverse that momentum whether successful or not. Be excited, this much change has never been seen in our lives. Our excitement will ensure much of the globalists plans to fake us out will fail and we will end up with so many upgrades cuz they tried to pretend to be on our side.

The tech is gonna be wild 10 years from now. Im quite confident that means much more good news for the little people than it does evil people. 2030-2032 seems to be the window of when things will likely be much better.

The rising of our frequency and the falling of of the veil/illusions is stressing everyone out similar to when some psychedelics start lifting our frequency. Its just a slower progress. Its bringing much crap to light each individual has inside as well as the powerful individuals having their horror secrets exposed. If that all came out at once people would lose their minds, its far worse than any horror movie. Just some of that exposure will set off a huge shift in the people , no way the globalists can control us then. The level of distrust and resistance toward those in power and their unforgivable actions would mean nobody wants to hear a word they are saying.

Possibly a good motivation to force the development of AI lie and transparency detectors. lol

Ok rambling too much..

PS. curious does Bill have a PO BOX that people have bought him items and sent to him without giving away his private address ? Then he could post his xmas list 😂

[ThePythonicCow]

I thought the hardware and private server were overkill
I tend to agree, and would give some other former admins the "credit" for some of our server choices. I'm not in a position to donate funds easily (I'd sooner spend my spare change on the computers next to me ... my hobby) but I have been doing what I can to trim Bill's monthly web server bills, and I have plans to continue that effort ... and yes ... your politics and mine are quite distinct.

[Flash]

Wow! What an outstanding first post Dennis. As for the political ultra right forum tendencies, I cannot agree more.

No discussion allowed when it is related to Trump. Complete brain washing of many to a fanatic level. No real intelligent critical thinking regarding Trump and his oligarchs. It is about banned on this forum.

The guy and his family have made billions personnally on our back within 5 month and I still hear lets wait and see

He destroyed the US in 5 months!! Nobody in the world want to trust the US anymore. You do not have the real news, it is more controled than ever.

By the way, Elon Musk finally got his black eye, have you noticed.

As for Trump, my real life specialty is Cluster B personnalities as described in DSM-5. I write on the topic and train corporate managers to handle the bastards.

Trump ticks absolutely all the cases of psychopathy with a thread of comorbidity huge vengeful pervert narcissism too.

USA is heading straight towards dictatorship head first with a 105 IQ, at the most, president.

And Lunaflore, Dennis post does not divide, it is an alarm bell. And no it is not fashion to hate the US. This is thinking based on ignorance. Nobody worlwide wants what is happening in and to the US. The senile Biden and the more corrupt and way less intelligent Trump. Wake up America.

The consequences are felt worldwide, right now, and US is soon to follow.

F.. read about Germany in 1930-32, read read read history. America do not remain ignorant. Read about Staline! Read!

[Michel Leclerc]

My judgment on what is happening in “former Palestine” may be clear.

I have been wondering for some time, reading what Ernie Nemeth calls "views” on PA (which is not the same as factual substance relayed by (alternative?) news sites made accessible by PA members) how many PA members have actually been in "former Palestine".

I was there in 1974. For a month.

And you?

[Merkaba360]

My judgment on what is happening in “former Palestine” may be clear.

I have been wondering for some time, reading what Ernie Nemeth calls "views” on PA (which is not the same as factual substance relayed by (alternative?) news sites made accessible by PA members) how many PA members have actually been in "former Palestine".

I was there in 1974. For a month.

And you?

Both sides are the problem. Its useless to take sides. There is the one bigger abusive bully which breeds the underdog terrorists that must resort to that in order to get back at the bully. They hate each other.

and then all the average people who get caught up in the battle unfortunately.

The "terrorist" side usually loses support by doing really sick heinous murders in public and stuff. How are people supposed to support the little guy if they are doing such things. The bully tends to hide the worst things it does more from the public.

The bully has more power an thus kills more overall.

The only thing i can do to help is meditate on peace and that they will all wake up from the illusion into a higher consciousness. I believe thats more powerful than protesting with anger.

It does nothing for me to try and figure out which side is less moral.

[edina]

PS. curious does Bill have a PO BOX that people have bought him items and sent to him without giving away his private address ? Then he could post his xmas list 😂

This is a good idea. It seems to me it's been discussed before, but I can't remember the outcome.



Its NOT about Trump.

This is the collective consciousness breaking the old patterns.

The rising of our frequency and the falling of of the veil/illusions is stressing everyone out similar to when some psychedelics start lifting our frequency. Its just a slower progress. Its bringing much crap to light each individual has inside as well as the powerful individuals having their horror secrets exposed. If that all came out at once people would lose their minds, its far worse than any horror movie. Just some of that exposure will set off a huge shift in the people , no way the globalists can control us then. The level of distrust and resistance toward those in power and their unforgivable actions would mean nobody wants to hear a word they are saying.

This is the lens I tend to look through, the lens of consciousness, maybe it's that orbital view that Bill and norm mentioned, or even beyond that.

I have a strong belief we are souls first and so much of the dynamic happening in the world is truly orchestrated from that level of OUR being. In so many NDE's people talk of how their perspective dramatically shifts because of the insights of this bigger picture they experience. And I think soul growth individually, and as a whole people, plays a much bigger role than we can presently imagine.

As an empath, I can feel the movement of the field of consciousness. Like watching a murmuration of a flock of starlings, but felt kinesthetically. I can remember, in the past, back in the 80's, becoming energetically aware of when people in Africa were being hacked to death. It was awful. That was before I understood what was happening. As more and more people become increasingly empathic and telepathic, healthy boundaries are going to be essential.

There have been forces that have been trying to start a WW3 for at least 20 years now, and they haven't yet been successful. That's because of what is happening in the field of consciousness.

The level of awareness is increasing all across the planet. On the whole, more and more people are aware of situations and events that 30 or 40 years were hardly a blip in their awareness screen. It can feel overwhelming and one can feel powerless to be able to do something directly, or rather materially, to positively impact situations. Prayer and meditation, and cultivating a state of present serenity (or serene presence) may seem insignificant, but it's not. And it's something anyone anywhere can do. And may actually be the more powerful action to DO, in any case.

I feel more encouraged than discouraged and the energetic space of encouragement is a more energetically powerful state from which to take effective action.

[Bill Ryan]

PS. curious does Bill have a PO BOX that people have bought him items and sent to him without giving away his private address ? Then he could post his xmas list 😂Actually, I do, as of a few weeks ago. Anyone can PM or email me (bill@projectavalon.net) for the details. It's in Miami, and an Ecuadorian courier brings items here regularly, also for his many other clients. It's very efficient and seems to work well. :muscle:


(Note: and as Bill has pointed out several times, Avalon is largely sympathetic with the Palestinian cause!:) "largely" is rather an understatement. Only 2 currently active members [seem to] withhold their Palestinian sympathies. 843 members have logged in and done something (read threads, posted, thanked, or sent PMs) since 1 January this year, so that's 0.24%. One ex-member (ozmirage (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?29265-ozmirage)) was immediately unsubscribed following this exchange back in March 2024:



WHAT HAS ISRAEL GIVEN TO THE WORLD?
http://www.israel21c.org/israels-top-45-greatest-inventions-of-all-time-2/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_inventions_and_discoveries

WHAT HAS PALESTINIANS GIVEN TO THE WORLD?
More Palestinians.Get the **** off this forum.

Several members PMed me to applaud the decision. I don't believe Dennis ever saw that post. :flower:

[Mike]

Wow! What an outstanding first post Dennis. As for the political ultra right forum tendencies, I cannot agree more.

No discussion allowed when it is related to Trump. Complete brain washing of many to a fanatic level. No real intelligent critical thinking regarding Trump and his oligarchs. It is about banned on this forum.

The guy and his family have made billions personnally on our back within 5 month and I still hear lets wait and see

He destroyed the US in 5 months!! Nobody in the world want to trust the US anymore. You do not have the real news, it is more controled than ever.

By the way, Elon Musk finally got his black eye, have you noticed.

As for Trump, my real life specialty is Cluster B personnalities as described in DSM-5. I write on the topic and train corporate managers to handle the bastards.

Trump ticks absolutely all the cases of psychopathy with a thread of comorbidity huge vengeful pervert narcissism too.

USA is heading straight towards dictatorship head first with a 105 IQ, at the most, president.

And Lunaflore, Dennis post does not divide, it is an alarm bell. And no it is not fashion to hate the US. This is thinking based on ignorance. Nobody worlwide wants what is happening in and to the US. The senile Biden and the more corrupt and way less intelligent Trump. Wake up America.

The consequences are felt worldwide, right now, and US is soon to follow.

F.. read about Germany in 1930-32, read read read history. America do not remain ignorant. Read about Staline! Read!

Flash, if Trump hadn't closed the southern border, there would be no United States. He didn't destroy anything; he saved it.

Trump is not a psychopath. He's not Cluster B. The world would be on fire right now if he were even half of what you suggest. Cluster B people are utterly humorless, for starters. Trump is endlessly joking. I have read about Stalin and Hitler (tiresome, silly comparisons) and neither of them worked at Macdonald's on the campaign trail or trolled political opponents by staging photo ops in a garbage truck.

Any and all discussion is permitted here on Trump. Bojancan has practically made a living at it. Your assertion is self-evidently false.

Elon Musk has a black eye. And?

It is fashionable to hate the US. It's mostly fashionable to hate the US in the US. How do I know this? Because I live here.

If "ultra right" means prioritizing your own country above others, kicking out illegals, squashing woke, and restoring freedom of speech, you can call me ultra right all day long.

It sounds like you're getting your news from that government subsidized Canadian media. Nearly everything you've written here is inaccurate. If I was forced to steelman your post, and my mother's life was on the line, I still don't think I could do it.

[norman]

Don't be so ignorant Mike ;)

https://i.vgy.me/3RM9i6.jpg

[Bright Skies]

Dear Bright Skies (and everyone else! :heart:), as I've mentioned quite a few times, we have over 100,000 threads on (literally!) every topic under the sun and beyond.

There are literally thousands of threads on the forum about beauty, philosophy, spirituality, nature, creativity, profound personal experiences, health and wellness, ancient history, non-human intelligence, and every aspect of the human condition.

And that's just a very partial list. I contribute to them all, and bump them whenever it seems relevant. Every other active member can add value and interest to all those topics any time they want to.

Always remember, as in any community: This forum is what we all make it.

For me, and I think for many others, all the above together make up the very healthy and strong beating heart of the community. (And to add one more time, if I may: the vast majority of the members, if not every single one of them, are deeply anti-Zionism.)

US Politics is just one of many topics that some (though not all!) people feel they care about. But as more of a view from orbit, I'd like to remind my friends here of two threads which I do feel are a useful reminder to us all:


Shiny Object Syndrome (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129467-Shiny-Object-Syndrome)
Watching the Reality Show (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129305-Watching-the-Reality-Show)

In life, what comes to us is so often what we have our attention on — whether that's positive or negative.

I'm sure we have threads about that too! :) :grouphug: :heart2:

I very much appreciate your reply Bill. :handshake: Thank you.

Of course you are, always have been and always will be one of the 'good guys'. :Avalon: I really do miss your appearances in front of the camera or behind the microphone and I think we all do. You were the most considerate, measured and reasoned of interviewers in the field.

But here we are all lucky have the opportunity to interact with you and with each other.

And I will certainly have a good read of the threads that you recommended which I had not previously noticed. Sometimes following the Reality Show induces tunnel vision and it is sometimes necessary to step back, reflect and recalibrate.

Having said that, it is Saturday night and I will now step back by heading out for a burger and a beer. :beer: I will raise my glass towards the stars and say "Cheers!" to you all.

:shooting star:

[Merkaba360]

Lol. Mike I had similar thoughts and much more.

I intentionally made many reasonable counters to Bojancan and (s)he completely ignored every one of them, and either doesnt respond to others or gives some opinion or emotional response. So, the only people on here i've seen that fits Flash's description of being fanatic one sided , agree with Flash.

I have a co worker who makes crazy claims too and i call him out and he searches for 5 min on google and can't find anything to back up his nonsense and then never responds back. He just spazzes out whenever I mention any good news changes in policy. lol He also is calling him Nazi or whatever. I don't want to start fights, but i want to keep asking him when they are going to put a gun to MSM CEOs and force them all to worship Mr. T 24/7. When are they gonna arrest everyone who doesnt hand over their guns.

Nobody trusts USA anymore, so they are all fleeing to deal with the impeccably honest Red dragon now or what? lol Its ridiculous, if we don't allow everyone to rob us blind to continue draining the country dry into bankruptcy, then we are mean bullies who can't be trusted. Put Biden back in office, the guy had more respect and trust worldwide than anyone throughout all of history. How are we ever going to repair our image to the past 4 years.

Not sure if they read me in a thread saying that 200 IQ Chris Langan actually met trump and said his IQ is in the ball park of a harvard professor. Thats at least 130. The probability of Flash being right over Chris is nearly 0 %. Just throwing out random beliiefs that are pretty much self apparently wrong gets old. Jesus , the difficulty of strategizing a campaign and the psychology that goes into it as well as giving so many non scripted speeches for hours on end..... If you want to know what a 100 IQ campaign looks like, look at Biden or Kamalas BORING scripted campaign with the same repetitive fake and false arguments. ugh

Whats really hilarious is that there are a bunch of people who survived Mao and USSR and were sounding the alarm bells on woke and the whole left socialist movement as being the same thing they experienced but in different clothing. Apparently, we need to read history books and ignore the survivors.

1930s....Political parties haven't been banned yet. J Guns havent been confiscated yet. Constitutional rights havent been revoked. Havent ended congress or trade unions. Havent attacked a certain race or religion. Illegal criminals dont count. No storm troopers intimidating us yet.

broad opinion statements are usually easily dismantled.

Not to pick on women (cuz they pick young women with little knowledge), but its the same on these gender war podcasts. The men are prepared and knowledgable. The women make these vague or broad statements and then the guys retort to be more specific. And they tell the men to go educate themself on history or something, cuz its common knowledge that they dont need to explain lol.

[Bill Ryan]

Don't be so ignorant Mike ;)

https://i.vgy.me/3RM9i6.jpg

Unless this is a different Mary Shelley (but who??), the very famous Mary Shelley, author of Frankenstein, lived from 1797—1851.

I got very curious about when she might have written that, but it seems that that's not her image: there is no photo of her, and this (https://kwize.com/pics/Mary-Shelley-quote-about-misery-from-Frankenstein-2a7314.jpg) is her portrait. And a search suggests that there seems to be no proof that she ever actually wrote that.

But she might have done, as the terminology of the 'left-right spectrum' first appeared in the French Revolution of 1789. (I never knew that till I looked it up (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum)!)

But the important thing here seems to be to be that in recent years the terms 'left and right' have to a very great extent been reversed.

Those on the so-called 'right wing' are now largely libertarians. So if we take the quote — a good one, whoever coined it — and swap 'left' and 'right', we do pretty much get the current true picture. :)

:focus:

[Merkaba360]

Thanks for doing the leg work on that one Bill.

I wasnt sure if it was sarcasm or a left wingers imagination or other. lol

Didn't realize who she was.

[thepainterdoug]

I think the Frankenstein monster was a liberal. The way he always wanted to say, friend? camon man.

in all seriousness , these terms have morphed and changed and traded costumes of the many years. Common sense is actually not really argued over when understood. Its the people that redefine what common sense is, in order to make money off it, thats the problem. And all politicians are very keen on making money off their positions. How many politicians are running on, nothing to change, all is pretty good? Ocassio is going from bartender to billionaire.

Thats why Ill take a beyond rich person as president who employs common sense. hummm, who would that be?

[Flash]

Wow! What an outstanding first post Dennis. As for the political ultra right forum tendencies, I cannot agree more.

No discussion allowed when it is related to Trump. Complete brain washing of many to a fanatic level. No real intelligent critical thinking regarding Trump and his oligarchs. It is about banned on this forum.

The guy and his family have made billions personnally on our back within 5 month and I still hear lets wait and see

He destroyed the US in 5 months!! Nobody in the world want to trust the US anymore. You do not have the real news, it is more controled than ever.

By the way, Elon Musk finally got his black eye, have you noticed.

As for Trump, my real life specialty is Cluster B personnalities as described in DSM-5. I write on the topic and train corporate managers to handle the bastards.

Trump ticks absolutely all the cases of psychopathy with a thread of comorbidity huge vengeful pervert narcissism too.

USA is heading straight towards dictatorship head first with a 105 IQ, at the most, president.

And Lunaflore, Dennis post does not divide, it is an alarm bell. And no it is not fashion to hate the US. This is thinking based on ignorance. Nobody worlwide wants what is happening in and to the US. The senile Biden and the more corrupt and way less intelligent Trump. Wake up America.

The consequences are felt worldwide, right now, and US is soon to follow.

F.. read about Germany in 1930-32, read read read history. America do not remain ignorant. Read about Staline! Read!

Flash, if Trump hadn't closed the southern border, there would be no United States. He didn't destroy anything; he saved it.

Trump is not a psychopath. He's not Cluster B. The world would be on fire right now if he were even half of what you suggest. Cluster B people are utterly humorless, for starters. Trump is endlessly joking. I have read about Stalin and Hitler (tiresome, silly comparisons) and neither of them worked at Macdonald's on the campaign trail or trolled political opponents by staging photo ops in a garbage truck.

Any and all discussion is permitted here on Trump. Bojancan has practically made a living at it. Your assertion is self-evidently false.

Elon Musk has a black eye. And?

It is fashionable to hate the US. It's mostly fashionable to hate the US in the US. How do I know this? Because I live here.

If "ultra right" means prioritizing your own country above others, kicking out illegals, squashing woke, and restoring freedom of speech, you can call me ultra right all day long.

It sounds like you're getting your news from that government subsidized Canadian media. Nearly everything you've written here is inaccurate. If I was forced to steelman your post, and my mother's life was on the line, I still don't think I could do it.

That is what I am talking about. First, being right about the southern border does not mean it has to be closed in ways that are quite heartless. Second, what had the Northern border to do with it. About nothing, just trickle of immigrants and still less trickle of fentanyl.

Same with the trade unbalance. Take off crude oil, processed in the US, sold at a much lower price than the market, and we have no more trade unbalance with the US - the US profit from that trade deficit because it comes entirely from the oil we sell you.

But.. have you read it anywhere in the US, have you heard it anywhere? No - those sayind different than the official propaganda are banned or imposed illegal tariffs on.

In the mean time, while you are hooked on one thing, the border for example, you do not see the most important and you do not get informed.

For this you actually have to get the info from somewhere else than the US, in order to have an all around view and then have intelligent critical thinking. Which is a must, independent of which government you are under.

Finally, it is obvious to me that you have never really dealt with pervert narcissists or psychopaths. Only a rare few do not have a sense of humour when in public. In public they look genuinely funny and empathetic, they use all the emotions and ways that will propulse them forward for their own gain.

A level of manipulation you cannot even fanthom. I personnally usually find them truly funny and more if with some intelligence. I have to always remind myself to remain on guard because they break through it easily. You,ve read on the topic, that is it otherwise you would know.

Please read, pleaaase read history from other countries. Only The very close circles to psychopaths sometimes see the realities. And yet often even the close circle cannot understand what they are dealing with.

Even Dr Hare who worked with diagnosed psychopaths for decades would have to listen to the videos of his meeting to see where they fooled him. In the action he would be obliviously used by them. They had humour and interesting conversations.

[Mike]

Wow! What an outstanding first post Dennis. As for the political ultra right forum tendencies, I cannot agree more.

No discussion allowed when it is related to Trump. Complete brain washing of many to a fanatic level. No real intelligent critical thinking regarding Trump and his oligarchs. It is about banned on this forum.

The guy and his family have made billions personnally on our back within 5 month and I still hear lets wait and see

He destroyed the US in 5 months!! Nobody in the world want to trust the US anymore. You do not have the real news, it is more controled than ever.

By the way, Elon Musk finally got his black eye, have you noticed.

As for Trump, my real life specialty is Cluster B personnalities as described in DSM-5. I write on the topic and train corporate managers to handle the bastards.

Trump ticks absolutely all the cases of psychopathy with a thread of comorbidity huge vengeful pervert narcissism too.

USA is heading straight towards dictatorship head first with a 105 IQ, at the most, president.

And Lunaflore, Dennis post does not divide, it is an alarm bell. And no it is not fashion to hate the US. This is thinking based on ignorance. Nobody worlwide wants what is happening in and to the US. The senile Biden and the more corrupt and way less intelligent Trump. Wake up America.

The consequences are felt worldwide, right now, and US is soon to follow.

F.. read about Germany in 1930-32, read read read history. America do not remain ignorant. Read about Staline! Read!

Flash, if Trump hadn't closed the southern border, there would be no United States. He didn't destroy anything; he saved it.

Trump is not a psychopath. He's not Cluster B. The world would be on fire right now if he were even half of what you suggest. Cluster B people are utterly humorless, for starters. Trump is endlessly joking. I have read about Stalin and Hitler (tiresome, silly comparisons) and neither of them worked at Macdonald's on the campaign trail or trolled political opponents by staging photo ops in a garbage truck.

Any and all discussion is permitted here on Trump. Bojancan has practically made a living at it. Your assertion is self-evidently false.

Elon Musk has a black eye. And?

It is fashionable to hate the US. It's mostly fashionable to hate the US in the US. How do I know this? Because I live here.

If "ultra right" means prioritizing your own country above others, kicking out illegals, squashing woke, and restoring freedom of speech, you can call me ultra right all day long.

It sounds like you're getting your news from that government subsidized Canadian media. Nearly everything you've written here is inaccurate. If I was forced to steelman your post, and my mother's life was on the line, I still don't think I could do it.

That is what I am talking about. First, being right about the southern border does not mean it has to be closed in ways that are quite heartless. Second, what had the Northern border to do with it. About nothing, just trickle of immigrants and still less trickle of fentanyl.

Same with the trade unbalance. Take off crude oil, processed in the US, sold at a much lower price than the market, and we have no more trade unbalance with the US - the US profit from that trade deficit because it comes entirely from the oil we sell you.

But.. have you read it anywhere in the US, have you heard it anywhere? No - those sayind different than the official propaganda are banned or imposed illegal tariffs on.

In the mean time, while you are hooked on one thing, the border for example, you do not see the most important and you do not get informed.

For this you actually have to get the info from somewhere else than the US, in order to have an all around view and then have intelligent critical thinking. Which is a must, independent of which government you are under.

Finally, it is obvious to me that you have never really dealt with pervert narcissists or psychopaths. Only a rare few do not have a sense of humour when in public. In public they look genuinely funny and empathetic, they use all the emotions and ways that will propulse them forward for their own gain.

A level of manipulation you cannot even fanthom. I personnally usually find them truly funny and more if with some intelligence. I have to always remind myself to remain on guard because they break through it easily. You,ve read on the topic, that is it otherwise you would know.

Please read, pleaaase read history from other countries. Only The very close circles to psychopaths sometimes see the realities. And yet often even the close circle cannot understand what they are dealing with.

Even Dr Hare who worked with diagnosed psychopaths for decades would have to listen to the videos of his meeting to see where they fooled him. In the action he would be obliviously used by them. They had humour and interesting conversations.



Shutting down the southern border wasn't heartless. It was the exact opposite. By prioritizing the U.S. over illegals it was actually full of heart and compassion for the American people. When a government chooses illegals over it's own, that is not an act of compassion; it's an act of treason. Trump stopped all that and saved the country. I"m "hooked" on the border as you say because were it not remedied the country would no longer exist. So, in the short term anyway, there was no more important issue.

I would implore you to read that world history you keep insisting I read. Read about Stalinist Russian; read about the Holocaust. Compare Hitler and Stalin's acts to Trump's and come back to this thread and honestly try to compare them. I'm not asking you to make hypothetical diagnosis' from the armchair about their psychological profiles; that's not useful. We don't have to guess at their intentions and inner world when we can simply compare their resumes. Compare their acts, and it will be immediately obvious to anyone on this planet - or any other planet - that any comparison is not only invalid but completely and utterly preposterous.

[onawah]

The core problem remains though, which is how long can any POTUS (and that certainly includes Trump) hold back the agenda of the controllers behind the scenes?
They only allow so much reform to keep the people pacified before they play their winning hands.
In this case, it sure looks like that's going to be CBDC in which case in the long run, those reforms won't matter nearly as much as they seem to now.
It takes a huge grass roots movement to bring about even temporary change, and with so much ongoing division and so many existing and developing crises, that will continue to be very hard to accomplish.
The Kali Yuga isn't over yet and the Dark Side is still a force to be reckoned with, something which I think the 78 year old billionaire POTUS probably knows very well, so it may be that the best he can really do is hedge his bets.
And see: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?124698-DOGE-Who-Are-They-and-What-Are-They-Up-To&p=1670582&viewfull=1#post1670582

If RFK remains staunch, the current administration may continue to score some sizeable victories, but in the face of all the corruption that has led the US and the world to this juncture, will that put the US in the clear?
No man is an island, and neither are nation states; the fate of each is very much dependent on the all, and until there are practical common goals no one nation will be succeeding in the face of the changes that are coming.
In reality, it looks more like all nations are barely hanging on at this point...

[Raskolnikov]

Its NOT about Trump. This is the collective consciousness breaking the old patterns. The globalists have no choice but to roll with it and will claim its all their doing but its not. They are sociopaths remember, impossible they all get along . Infighting yay.

Sorry but my country was falling fast and im happy to see an attempt to reverse that momentum whether successful or not. Be excited, this much change has never been seen in our lives. Our excitement will ensure much of the globalists plans to fake us out will fail and we will end up with so many upgrades cuz they tried to pretend to be on our side.

The tech is gonna be wild 10 years from now. Im quite confident that means much more good news for the little people than it does evil people. 2030-2032 seems to be the window of when things will likely be much better.

The rising of our frequency and the falling of of the veil/illusions is stressing everyone out similar to when some psychedelics start lifting our frequency. Its just a slower progress. Its bringing much crap to light each individual has inside as well as the powerful individuals having their horror secrets exposed. If that all came out at once people would lose their minds, its far worse than any horror movie. Just some of that exposure will set off a huge shift in the people , no way the globalists can control us then. The level of distrust and resistance toward those in power and their unforgivable actions would mean nobody wants to hear a word they are saying.

Possibly a good motivation to force the development of AI lie and transparency detectors. lol


This is the lens I tend to look through, the lens of consciousness, maybe it's that orbital view that Bill and norm mentioned, or even beyond that.

I have a strong belief we are souls first and so much of the dynamic happening in the world is truly orchestrated from that level of OUR being. In so many NDE's people talk of how their perspective dramatically shifts because of the insights of this bigger picture they experience. And I think soul growth individually, and as a whole people, plays a much bigger role than we can presently imagine.

As an empath, I can feel the movement of the field of consciousness. Like watching a murmuration of a flock of starlings, but felt kinesthetically. I can remember, in the past, back in the 80's, becoming energetically aware of when people in Africa were being hacked to death. It was awful. That was before I understood what was happening. As more and more people become increasingly empathic and telepathic, healthy boundaries are going to be essential.

There have been forces that have been trying to start a WW3 for at least 20 years now, and they haven't yet been successful. That's because of what is happening in the field of consciousness.

The level of awareness is increasing all across the planet. On the whole, more and more people are aware of situations and events that 30 or 40 years were hardly a blip in their awareness screen. It can feel overwhelming and one can feel powerless to be able to do something directly, or rather materially, to positively impact situations. Prayer and meditation, and cultivating a state of present serenity (or serene presence) may seem insignificant, but it's not. And it's something anyone anywhere can do. And may actually be the more powerful action to DO, in any case.

I feel more encouraged than discouraged and the energetic space of encouragement is a more energetically powerful state from which to take effective action.

The spiritual side of me resonates very strongly with both of the above statements, thank you both, while at the same time, my business sense, the practical and logical side, agrees with onawah as well. I'm rooting (not what you think it means Australians!) for the spiritual side, while preparing for the practical...

[rgray222]

But the important thing here seems to be to be that in recent years the terms 'left and right' have to a very great extent been reversed.

:focus:

Bill, this is exactly what I used to think, that the Democrats and the Republicans had simply reversed. But upon deeper reflection, I now believe that Donald Trump's candidacy and subsequent election exposed the true nature of the Democratic Party. Their hate for Trump can also be described as a dangerous and audacious desire for power. They did not lift a finger to help or align with Black, Latino, women and young voters because every ounce of energy was used trying to destroy Trump. The Democrats won the women's vote, but that was largely due to their position on abortion rather than any effort they put forward. The Democrats were truly exposed; they alienated the working-class people because it could easily be seen that Democrats cherish power and not the people.

While many voter remain under the spell of the mainstream media, I was happy to see that the majority (although slim) of American voters still had the ability to critically think and elect Donald Trump.

I have much more to say but this is not the place for that discussion.

:focus:

[Denise/Dizi]

I just want to say to Flash, it is much different when you live in America versus watching some news program tell you what is really happening here. I remember when you were surprised when we spoke about the airports having signs about human trafficking in the stalls of the ladies bathrooms, and you were surprised they were there.. That was 6 years ago.. BEFORE the rush of illegal immigration...

The issues facing America right now, especially with the illegal immigration and drug cartels, and the homeless crisis is beyond fathomable at this point. Regardless of what news you are watching, we are living it in real time...

If you saw the repercussions of the illegal immigration issue here in my state, you would be horrified.. And it is traveling up into middle America... It has hit the top of California at this point... And is up much higher in Eastern states like New York at this point... And if left unchecked, WILL BE at your door next... So before you write it off based upon what the "news" says? You will be selling yourself a bit short...

As far as Trump? No man works alone, and while there are millions of issues we can discuss here... I know you have a huge heart, and if you saw what was happening in my state alone, you too would have some changes of opinions on a few issues, regardless of who was in office.

All news lies in my opinion... It is perception management at this point... And sadly the humans lose as a result, versus much of any truth being told. So many people want good for the world, and that isn't about inclusion and diversity, etc... It is about just being honest, humane, and a caring individual.

Americans have to jump so many hoops in order to travel into Canada, or anywhere for that matter... Your country being one of the most strict... And that is a good thing... It seems most do not believe America should have the right to police it's own borders however... Which I find baffling... One only need to live here for any length of time to realize it is a necessity... Even those who have come here legally and became citizens wold tell you they agree with those being stopped and deported... Those wiling to break the law to get here aren't going to care about any laws once they're here...

Love ya girl!

[araucaria]

I can sympathise with the people those referred to in Dennis Leahy’s opening post who have pretty much abandoned this forum – I find nothing much readable these days and only rarely post when really, like Melville’s Bartleby the scrivener, ‘I would prefer not to’. Like now, taking my time: this won’t get posted until morning on D-Day! I do have something to say about what is going on here from this ‘former member’ viewpoint. I would take issue with the good guys/bad guys approach on the one hand, and with the political slant of left v. right on the other; in both cases you have a binary view where two poles appear to have switched places. Maybe this has something to do with a magnetic pole shift, I don’t know. I want to take this to a different level by expounding some theoretical ideas illustrated with some examples from literature.


If you view things statistically, then humanity will form a bell curve of some shape or form. On a scale of good and bad, you will have a tiny minority of angels and devils and a huge majority of more or less neutrals capable of evolving somewhat in a given direction. The tendency for many is to see themselves towards the good end, with the result that they will see nearly everyone else comparatively speaking as more or less bad. A short story by Isaac Asimov (‘That Thou Art Mindful of Him’) has two humanoid robots, George Ten and George Nine, deciding that not only are they human beings, they are superior to all the real ones! And although neither spiritually enlightened nor testosterone-driven, they conspire to take charge. (This story was written in the seventies, long before George 41 and George 43 came along…)


Contrast this type of superiority complex with the enlightenment of the genuinely good who are knowingly in touch with reality. Anyone else is going to be living an illusion to some extent. And the complete satanist will have turned the entire system upside down and back to front. How then do we describe the silent minority – or possibly majority – who correctly see themselves as average? Politically speaking these are the floating voters who sway an election one way or the other. They are often religious, looking up to their ‘betters’; however, if they lack discernment, the people they look up to will sometimes be those satanists from the opposite end of the spectrum. Finally, complementing the superiority complex is the inferiority complex of some people who are actually better than they think, not necessarily humble but possibly humiliated. So the recipe for positive evolution would be a little more genuine humility and a little more courage through less humiliation – the two things go together. If I may suggest, this forum being a kind of humanoid robot, having greater knowledge/information than any given individual, would seem, amid this muddle of good and bad guys, to be in the process of seeking greater discernment. This at least is what motivates me to speak out.


The above analysis can only be made from the viewpoint of humanity as a whole; to that extent, the analyst is no longer one human individual but an aspect of an all-seeing, all-feeling ‘God’ (or whatever is one’s preferred terminology). Hence the value of a public forum. The individual is never a stable point on a graph but a moving cog in an ongoing overall process. This is crucial, as it leads to tolerance and forgiveness. The battle of good and evil would then be about pulling the median value one way or the other by producing either a mass awakening or the opposite. But it is precisely not a battle to be won or lost; more simply, humanity as a whole needs to improve somewhat in order to evolve. A case of shifting the goalposts, like taking the entire graph and raising or lowering the horizontal values while keeping the same spread. Another approach might be to reduce the spread and stretch the vertical axis upwards. This would amount to reducing our differences at the cost of making us all very much the same. Writing before Shakespeare, John Lyly describes it best: ‘I have wished oftentimes rather be a bee than not be as I should be’. However, this comes at a cost. The spread of profiles may possibly be seen in terms of different levels of skill and experience, e.g. old souls/young souls operating in a mutually educational environment, which is different from and doubtless a much richer, more evolved experience for all than the well-oiled machinery of the hive mentality. What we are seeing would appear to be moves in that direction, likely with the best of intentions, in order at least to achieve the human survival that in the atomic age one fears is not going to happen this time around. Writing after John Lyly, Shakespeare puts it best (16th century spelling): ‘To bee or not to bee, that is the question.’


The paradox here is that a little more order and discipline (such as we find in the destructive work of armies) is also required for greater creativity. While we are not robots, unconditional love may be seen as creativitybuilt upon the automation of the harmonious relations humanity yearns after. This is something we also find in Asimov, in the Foundation series, where the psychohistorian Hari Seldon is married to a robot, Dors Venabili, until death (sadly hers!) do them part. Together they add a new telepathic layer to everyday politics, bringing predictability and stability through enhanced communications.


To sum up, given the numbers involved, what goes on in the world has very little to do with the good guys and the bad guys and a great deal to do with the silent majority being slightly swayed in one direction or the other. Where a given individual stands on the bell curve is in a sense immaterial and in any case temporary: we are all as unique as the few outliers. That would be the leftist view. The rightist approach would be to see the two minorities as somehow running the whole wild west show. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly: ‘You see, in this world there’s two kinds of people, my friend: those with loaded guns, and those who dig.’


Thesis, antithesis: what would be the synthesis here? If we consider that we are all facing in our individual lives the combined effects of all these tensions, then it comes down to walking a tightrope. Paul Auster translated and prefaced a book, On the High-Wire, by the French tightrope artist Philippe Petit, whom he heard about dancing for three hours between the twin towers of Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris, and later saw between the twin towers of the World Trade Center, where Auster the poet, standing between secretary of state Cyrus Vance and a child looking up into the heavens, was struck by both the inner experience for the performer and the democratic experience for the spectator on the ground. Conversely, I take it that such balance requires a momentary disregard for all that is going on down below – which I come to now, putting to one side however the fact that this entails, physically but also perhaps symbolically, the destruction of the twin towers, narrowly avoided in the case of Notre-Dame. No towers, no high-wire jinks.


Back down to earth, there is a book I have owned for over twenty years and only just got round to opening: The Life of Jonathan Wild by Henry Fielding (1740). The real life Jonathan Wild was executed 300 years to the day of my beginning to read (May 24), so before we even start you have a big synchronicity – by which I mean something exceptional that pops up as though it happened all the time, and it does so for being relevant to the here and now. Hence I see this 18th century novel as a view in miniature, a kind of prototype – mise en abyme is the technical term – of what we are talking about here. What makes it fascinatingly persuasive is the way Fielding is writing up in a novel a real-life situation which he dealt with as a magistrate only a couple of years LATER. Nothing extraordinary here: he simply plans a course of action based on past events and then carries it out – which is perhaps unusual in fiction writing but otherwise standard procedure for effective action.


Fielding’s main weapon is irony. Bad people have an inverted vocabulary in a system based on hate and fear where the ‘Honour’ that makes ‘great men’ tick is governed by hypocrisy (false superiority) and secrecy (ditto), where decent people are ‘stupid’ and so forth. The fictional Jonathan Wild is one of these ‘great’ men, influential in various walks of life, especially crime. He runs a ‘gang’ of people who are mostly unknown to each other and are told only enough to carry out orders – not really a gang at all in fact. They are typically ordinary or even good people who out of fear are made to do a little more than they feel is right and threatened with punishment if they refuse. Those who stop at killing, or sometimes less, will be murdered or ‘legally’ executed. Bottom line: when acting with, quote, ‘great greatness’ (does this sound a bit Trumpian?), everyone deserves to be taken out. So for example an honest jeweller, totally out of his depth, is robbed of his jewels and then arrested for bankruptcy, a capital offence back then. While the story is ostensibly about the positive slant unconvincingly placed on his ignominious demise by the arch-villain Jonathan Wild – give him enough rope and he hangs himself – it also describes in ironic detail the survival of this jeweller aptly called Heartfree and his nearest and dearest. Hence the full story is really about how one of these two very different tales, of the self-centred misanthrope and the loving family, is transformed into the other.


It is altogether a very modern affair inasmuch as you have perpetrators who are also the victims of seemingly unrelated incidents coming together and joining dots, and when they have a bigger picture blowing the whistle, and all together bringing the invisible hand to justice. The web of lies based on the deliberate absence of connections nevertheless points to the common denominator, the aptly named mastermind Wild, as being ultimately responsible for all the crimes committed by these others. The system collapses under its own weight. Nothing revolutionary is required beyond the structures already in place, which come into action once this tipping point in the collective awareness is reached. Police, judge and hangman all just doing their jobs when the witnesses overcome their guilty consciences and finally come forward.


The bottom line, then, is that the really ‘bad guys’ are vanishingly few, and the clean-up is carried out by all the rest, who have dirty hands but are also the first to benefit from the major change that they have made possible. There is plenty of wisdom teaching out there saying that there is no one coming to save us, we need to clean up our own act. This is what it looks like on the ground on the tiny scale of 18th c. London: not exactly original sin, but a universal sin we all pick up to some degree along the way. While of course today the situation has reached a Tower-of-Babel state of chaos and white noise, the lesson would seem to be the same, and likewise the ultimate outcome. The early signs of system collapse may well be nations becoming ungovernable along with major fallings-out among people supposedly on the same side, such as we are seeing right now.


Meanwhile, we anonymous public share our insights on the off-chance of reaching someone able to use them in achieving this common goal. This is where altruistic love is an indispensable tool as opposed to the hate and fear to be revealed as based on nothing but an illusion. All of which is why although I have more or less given up posting on this forum, I have been making one or two exceptions. Enough of the ‘bad guys out there’ stuff: with a little collective self-improvement we can live without it. Isn’t that the whole point? An altruistic slant on ‘charity begins at home’…

[Bruno]

I use to post here fairly frequently but stopped during the first Trump term. I still occasionally lurk. And this thread caught my attention.

Thank you Dennis for writing about the reasons I felt like there was no point in posting any longer. I feel like for years the forum has lost the plot, and has not been critical enough of Trump and Republicans in general.

Please understand that I don't believe that Biden was a great guy or that democrats will save us. There are plenty of self interested greedy misguided people on both sides of the narrow political isle.

Democrats are in the Epstein files.
Republicans are in the Epstein files.

Republicans in office are making money from insider trading.
Democrats in office are making money from insider trading.

Democrats are bought and sold by corporations and billionaires.
Republicans are bought and sold by corporations and billionaires.

It is the rare politician that is not bought off or blackmailed into falling in line. It drives me crazy that there are still people that think a man born into money who made a real estate business and reality show career off being self-interested, crude and deceptive would have the interest of common people in mind when doing anything.

[Bill Ryan]

Dear Araucaria and Bruno (and everyone else! :heart:), here's a copy of what I posted (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129749-Bill-Ryan-s-Mission-and-His-Lunchbox-Sociopath-du-Jour-and-Unicorn-Urine&p=1670293&viewfull=1#post1670293) here a week ago. But I do think it may bear repeating.

As I've mentioned quite a few times, we have over 100,000 threads on (literally!) every topic under the sun and beyond.

There are literally thousands of threads on the forum about beauty, philosophy, spirituality, nature, creativity, profound personal experiences, health and wellness, ancient history, non-human intelligence, and every aspect of the human condition.

And that's just a very partial list. I contribute to them all, and bump them whenever it seems relevant. Every other active member can add value and interest to all those topics any time they want to.

Always remember, as in any community: This forum is what we all make it.

For me, and I think for many others, all the above together make up the very healthy and strong beating heart of the community. (And to add one more time, if I may: the vast majority of the members, if not every single one of them, are deeply anti-Zionism.)

US Politics is just one of many topics that some (though not all!) people feel they care about. But as more of a view from orbit, I'd like to remind my friends here of two threads which I do feel are a useful reminder to us all:


Shiny Object Syndrome (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129467-Shiny-Object-Syndrome)
Watching the Reality Show (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129305-Watching-the-Reality-Show)

In life, what comes to us is so often what we have our attention on — whether that's positive or negative.

I'm sure we have threads about that too! :) :grouphug: :heart2:

[Mike]

Since 2016, almost the entire world has been vigorously anti-Trump.. or at least that's what the legacy media would have us believe. After Biden got elected in 2020, you couldn't find a single positive article or news program about Trump anywhere (except for FOX). Google tells us that the writing platform, Medium, has 100 million active users..and it was my habit to search for Trump pieces whenever I wrote one of my own, just to sort of gauge the climate. And most of the time I couldn't find a single positive Trump article among the hundreds or thousands being written. Think about that!:) I was kicked off Medium, unsurprisingly (right when I was starting to make decent $, :angry:))and Avalon was the only remaining refuge for a guy like me.

It was one of the only places you could connect with like-minded Trump supporters. But there are some people who wouldn't be happy until that was ripped away as well! And they're still at it.. but Avalon remains a place where we can still openly support Trump without any kind of authoritarian pushback. And it remains a place where you can openly criticize him without any authoritarian pushback either. So I really don't see the issue.

Having said all that, I'm just as happy to post about cryptids and demons and UFO's as I am about anything Trump-related or political. But if the earth is a stage, Trump is its most colorful actor, and will naturally get the most attention as a result. I don't think it's a U.S. politics thing per se, it's a Trump thing. Were he prime minister of England or Canada, we'd be talking about England or Canada.

I really wish members would write more about the other topics Bill listed above (and selfishly some of the topics I particularly like). But human nature is what it is.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

To add: Geopolitics, Politics (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?152-Geopolitics-Politics) is just one of over one-hundred topical sub-forums available on the forum (that doesn't include the Members Only section). That's just 1% of the subjects of interest. Despite certain persons intimating as such, Politics does not define Avalon, nor does any one political stance represent it.

:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

To add: Geopolitics, Politics (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?152-Geopolitics-Politics) is just one of over one-hundred topical sub-forums available on the forum (that doesn't include the Members Only section). That's just 1% of the subjects of interest. Despite certain persons intimating as such, Politics does not define Avalon, nor does any one political stance represent it.
Yes. :) Here they all are...!

(Anyone visiting this thread, what would you like to read about, learn about, share about, or ask about? There's enough here to interest and occupy any curious and aware person for many years. And that's not even considering the vast wealth of material in the Avalon Library.)

News and Current Events

The Alternative Media (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?135-The-Alternative-Media)
China's Global Influence (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?197-China-s-Global-Influence)
Climate and Environment (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?93-Climate-and-Environment)
Earth's Populations in Turmoil (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?184-Earth-s-Populations-in-Turmoil)
Earthquakes, Latest reports and discussions (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?77-Earthquakes-Latest-reports-and-discussions)
Global Financial News (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?92-Global-Financial-News)
Geopolitics, Politics (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?152-Geopolitics-Politics)
General Elections (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?217-General-Elections)
Problems of Migration and Immigration (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?171-Problems-of-Migration-and-Immigration)
Solar Activity, Reports and Discussions (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?78-Solar-Activity-Reports-and-Discussions)
Warzones (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?218-Warzones)
Wikileaks (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?95-Wikileaks)

Culture and The Human Condition

Alternative Living (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?219-Alternative-Living)
Art & Music (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?132-Art-Music)
Books & Literature (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?220-Books-Literature)
Clown World/ Culture War/ Identity Politics (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?213-Clown-World-Culture-War-Identity-Politics)
History (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?125-History)
Movies, TV, and Games (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?35-Movies-TV-and-Games)
Personal Development and Self-Empowerment (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?189-Personal-Development-and-Self-Empowerment)
True Crime (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?221-True-Crime)
Sport (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?222-Sport)

Science, Technology, and Health

A.I. & Robotics (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?177-A.I.-Robotics)
Alternative Medicine (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?19-Alternative-Medicine)
Alternative Science (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?151-Alternative-Science)
Archeology and Anthropology (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?97-Archeology-and-Anthropology)
Astronomy and Cosmology (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?99-Astronomy-and-Cosmology)
Computers & Internet (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?133-Computers-Internet)
Earth's Living Things (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?128-Earth-s-Living-Things)
Geophysics (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?126-Geophysics)
Health and Wellness (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?127-Health-and-Wellness)
Science & Technology (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?123-Science-Technology)
Space Flight (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?196-Space-Flight)
Surveillance and Personal Security (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?134-Surveillance-and-Personal-Security)

Conspiracy Research


5G (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?187-5G)
9/11 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?88-9-11)
Attacks on the Alternative Media (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?140-Attacks-on-the-Alternative-Media)
Censorship and the Information War (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?227-Censorship-and-the-Information-War)
Chemtrails (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?137-Chemtrails)
Clones/ Doppelgängers/ Lookalikes (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?223-Clones-Doppelg--ngers-Lookalikes)
Cults & Secret Societies (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?224-Cults-Secret-Societies)
Elites/ Deep State/ New World Order (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?225-Elites-Deep-State-New-World-Order)
Eugenics and Population Control (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?144-Eugenics-and-Population-Control)
False Flags/ Psyops/ COINTELPRO (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?226-False-Flags-Psyops-COINTELPRO)
Genetic Manipulation (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?142-Genetic-Manipulation)
JFK (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?165-JFK)
Targeted Individuals (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?139-Targeted-Individuals)
Manipulation in the Media (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?167-Manipulation-in-the-Media)
Milabs (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?141-Milabs)
Mind Control (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?138-Mind-Control)
Moon Mysteries (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?228-Moon-Mysteries)
Pedophilia/ Trafficking/ Satanic abuse (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?170-Pedophilia-Trafficking-Satanic-abuse)
NASA/ Space Anomalies (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?230-NASA-Space-Anomalies)
Remote Viewing (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?185-Remote-Viewing)
Suppressed Knowledge & Technology (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?231-Suppressed-Knowledge-Technology)
The 'Q' Material, pros and cons (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?180-The-Q-Material-pros-and-cons)
The Secret Space Program (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?136-The-Secret-Space-Program)
Weather Wars (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?143-Weather-Wars)
Whistleblowers (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?232-Whistleblowers)

The Unexplained

Antarctica (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?174-Antarctica)
Ancient Knowledge (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?233-Ancient-Knowledge)
Atlantis/ Lemuria (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?234-Atlantis-Lemuria)
Cryptids (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?129-Cryptids)
Giants (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?235-Giants)
Missing 411 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?236-Missing-411)
Myths and Legends (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?131-Myths-and-Legends)
Paranormal & The Occult (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?237-Paranormal-The-Occult)
Time Travel (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?173-Time-Travel)
Unsolved Mysteries (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?238-Unsolved-Mysteries)

Future Talk


Apocalyptic Scenarios (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?240-Apocalyptic-Scenarios)
Earth Changes (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?145-Earth-Changes)
The New Age/ New Earth (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?203-The-New-Age-New-Earth)
Planet X (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?146-Planet-X)
Predictions and Prophecies (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?147-Predictions-and-Prophecies)
Transhumanism (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?241-Transhumanism)

Ufology, Extraterrestrial Contact


New Sightings (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?148-New-Sightings)
UFO Footage & Photographs (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?252-UFO-Footage-Photographs)
Disclosure (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?46-Disclosure)
Abductions (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?242-Abductions)
Ancient Aliens (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?161-Ancient-Aliens)
Alien Bases / DUMBs (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?179-Alien-Bases-DUMBs)
Contactees & Witnesses (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?244-Contactees-Witnesses)
Crash Retrievals (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?245-Crash-Retrievals)
Crop Circles (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?246-Crop-Circles)

Spirituality

The After Life/ NDE's/ Reincarnation (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?247-The-After-Life-NDE-s-Reincarnation)
Meditation, Healing and Prayer (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?103-Meditation-Healing-and-Prayer)
Mysticism (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?249-Mysticism)
Philosophy (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?250-Philosophy)
Religion (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?251-Religion)
Remarkable Personal Experiences (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?149-Remarkable-Personal-Experiences)
Spiritual and self-help practices that seem to work (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?150-Spiritual-and-self-help-practices-that-seem-to-work)

Living off the Grid


Alternative Housing (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?71-Alternative-Housing)
Living off the Grid (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?74-Living-off-the-Grid)
Amateur Radio (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?106-Amateur-Radio)
Emergency & Survival Supplies (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?72-Emergency-Survival-Supplies)
Food & Water (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?70-Food-Water)
Personal Sovereignty (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?159-Personal-Sovereignty)
Power & Transport (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?73-Power-Transport)
Strategic Relocation (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?122-Strategic-Relocation)

Members Only


Connecting with other Avalon members where you live (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?153-Connecting-with-other-Avalon-members-where-you-live)
Contactees (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?33-Contactees)
Express Yourself (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?89-Express-Yourself)
Members' Websites (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?162-Members-Websites)
Milab Experiencers in the Avalon Community (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?157-Milab-Experiencers-in-the-Avalon-Community)
Past Lives we Remember (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?154-Past-Lives-we-Remember)
Personal Epiphanies (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?155-Personal-Epiphanies)
Psychic Attacks and Psychic Defense (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?156-Psychic-Attacks-and-Psychic-Defense)
The Lighter Side (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?64-The-Lighter-Side)
The Think Tank (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?115-The-Think-Tank)
Channeled and Other Controversial Material (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?83-Channeled-and-Other-Controversial-Material)
Off-Topic (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?47-Off-Topic)
Other sensitive issues not for public view (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?158-Other-sensitive-issues-not-for-public-view)
Witnesses (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?40-Witnesses)

[wondering]

I am just tired. Too tired to read much, too tired to write much. I feel I have been buffeted about by the never ending turmoil of the past several years. I try to stay centered, anchored in the belief that we are in a battle of the ages between good and evil. What I feel I can contribute is to live in the belief that how I use my personal power of intent and belief is the only way I can make a difference. No idea for sure if Trump is a good guy or a bad guy, but I knew this was going to be chaotic and exhausting, and it is, for me. My age is a factor, I'm sure, and at the same time my age has brought me to a place of wisdom and acceptance, and I am content to just trust that all is as it should be.

[RunningDeer]

I am just tired. Too tired to read much, too tired to write much. I feel I have been buffeted about by the never ending turmoil of the past several years. I try to stay centered, anchored in the belief that we are in a battle of the ages between good and evil. What I feel I can contribute is to live in the belief that how I use my personal power of intent and belief is the only way I can make a difference. No idea for sure if Trump is a good guy or a bad guy, but I knew this was going to be chaotic and exhausting, and it is, for me. My age is a factor, I'm sure, and at the same time my age has brought me to a place of wisdom and acceptance, and I am content to just trust that all is as it should be.


A big bear hug to you, Diane. :heart:

https://i.imgur.com/Voqvlqa.png




My silence on the non-stop calamities is not from a lack of care. I recognize that my strength lies elsewhere. I cultivate resilience, clarity, and peace from within. And hold space energetically and emotionally for others to process where and how they believe.

[wondering]

So kind, Paula...how like you! 😍

[onawah]

“What is a Petty Tyrant?”
June 26, 2017
https://suzannewagner.com/showcase/what-is-a-petty-tyrant-by-carlos-castaneda

"A petty tyrant is a tormentor. Someone who either holds the power of life and death over warriors or simply annoys them to distraction.
~Carlos Castaneda – The Fire from Within~

“My benefactor used to say that a warrior who stumbles on a petty tyrant is a lucky one.”
~Don Juan~

A petty tyrant is a person who causes distress by imposing his/her will on others using psychological pressure rather than physical force. The petty tyrant feels he may impose his will because he believes that he is a superior being and because he wants to operate from a position of authority.

Petty tyrants are the button-pushers, the individuals that have the ability to throw things off-balance for you if you let them. Many petty tyrants are unaware that they are the cause of so much frustration. They are effective teachers because they force the warrior to closely monitor their own reactions and habitual behaviors. The result is mindfulness and the ability to shift the assemblage point, even if ever so slightly, in order to loosen the fixation to the conditioned response that causes the reaction in the first place.

Castaneda believed that by looking at the petty tyrant through a different filter, a person could not only co-exist with a petty tyrant but also benefit from the relationship. This type of relationship would be most common in the workplace, school or other public forum when you have no choice but to be in close proximity to the petty tyrant. The challenge for the warrior is to try to consciously get along with this co-worker without being petty yourself. It’s a “rise above it” opportunity that could challenge one to the core.

Don Miguel Ruiz summarizes by saying “don’t take anything personally.” This is the biggest gift of the petty tyrant. To be able to recognize that even though you will be annoyed to no end by the petty tyrant one must not allow themselves to be energetically attached to the petty tyrant. They are ruthless and are often painfully consistent in throwing someone off of the center quickly and effectively. To fall prey to a petty tyrant means that you allow yourself to become agitated repeatedly by the same words, behaviors and attitudes over and over again.

The freedom arrives when the petty tyrant no longer affects you. You are in their presence and they are the same they have always been. Annoying to no end, distracting and even disruptive but they just don’t have the same affect on you anymore. You are no longer annoyed or imbalanced by them. You have accomplished the feat of shifting your assemblage point so that you no longer perceive annoyances in the same manner you did in the past and you have successfully severed the energetic stronghold that the petty tyrant had on your self-importance. In fact, you can’t even remember what it was that annoyed you so much in the first place.

This is the gift. The petty tyrant pushes and pushes and pushes until the very thing(s) that bothered you about them in the first place no longer do. Unwittingly, they set the stage for growth in areas you may not have even realized should be addressed. The petty tyrant can stop your world by activating a series of emotions and responses within you that you could not even imagine existed. They are, in their own right, a portal for deepening your quest for freedom.

Even the worst tyrants can bring delight, provided, of course, that one is a warrior. This may be incomprehensible to those who are in the middle of working with one of the nastiest petty tyrants. How can someone who causes so much emotional turmoil and revulsion possibly bring delight? The delight is found in the moment that the warrior rises above the tyranny and recognizes how utterly ridiculous the seriousness of the petty tyrant is! Petty tyrants are, for the most part, trying desperately to become stronger by stealing your personal power, to build up their own egos by belittling you and pushing you around. The moment you pull the carpet out from under them and stop energetically feeding them leaves them in such a state of confusion and no other choice but to go and find their next “victim”.

The petty tyrant teaches the warrior to develop a strategy utilizing the four attributes of warriorship: control, discipline, forbearance, and timing. As a result the warrior deepens so much so into these four attributes that it may be a very long time until the next petty tyrant appears. And then, the ultimate pleasure arises when you become aware that you have become someone else’s petty tyrant. And the gift, in this case, may be pure awareness and detachment to the petty tyrant as the result of your fluidity and energetic efficiency.

Quotes from Carlos Castenada’s Book"

Nothing can temper the spirit of a warrior as much as the challenge of dealing with impossible people in positions of power. Only under those conditions can warriors acquire the sobriety and serenity to stand the pressure of the unknowable.

The perfect ingredient for the making of a superb seer is a petty tyrant with unlimited prerogatives. Seers have to go to extremes to find a worthy one. Most of the time they have to be satisfied with very small fry. Then warriors develop a strategy using the four attributes of warriorship: control, discipline, forbearance, and timing.

He said that what the new seers had in mind was a deadly manoeuvre in which the petty tyrant is like a mountain peak and the attributes of warriorship are like climbers who meet at the summit.

Control and discipline refer to an inner state. A warrior is self-oriented, not in a selfish way but in the sense of a total examination of the self.

Forbearance and timing are not quite an inner state. They are in the domain of the man of knowledge.

The idea of using a petty tyrant is not only for perfecting the warrior’s spirit, but also for enjoyment and happiness. Even the worst tyrants can bring delight, provided, of course, that one is a warrior.

The mistake average men make in confronting petty tyrants is not to have a strategy to fall back on; the fatal flaw is that average men take themselves too seriously; their actions and feelings, as well as those of the petty tyrants, are all-important. Warriors, on the other hand, not only have a well-thought-out strategy, but are free from self-importance. What restrains their self-importance is that they have understood that reality is an interpretation we make.

Petty tyrants take themselves with deadly seriousness while warriors do not. What usually exhausts us is the wear and tear on our self-importance. Any man who has an iota of pride is ripped apart by being made to feel worthless.

To tune the spirit when someone is trampling on you is called control. Instead of feeling sorry for himself a warrior immediately goes to work mapping the petty tyrant’s strong points, his weaknesses, his quirks of behavior.

To gather all this information while they are beating you up is called discipline. A perfect petty tyrant has no redeeming feature.

Forbearance is to wait patiently–no rush, no anxiety–a simple, joyful holding back of what is due.

A warrior knows that he is waiting and what he is waiting for. Right there is the great joy of warriorship.

Timing is the quality that governs the release of all that is held back. Control, discipline, and forbearance are like a dam behind which everything is pooled. Timing is the gate in the dam.

Forbearance means holding back with the spirit something that the warrior knows is rightfully due. It doesn’t mean that a warrior goes around plotting to do anybody mischief, or planning to settle past scores. Forbearance is something independent. As long as the warrior has control, discipline, and timing, forbearance assures giving whatever is due to whoever deserves it.

To be defeated by a small-fry petty tyrant is not deadly, but devastating. Warriors who succumb to a small-fry petty tyrant are obliterated by their own sense of failure and unworthiness.

Anyone who joins the petty tyrant is defeated. To act in anger, without control and discipline, to have no forbearance, is to be defeated.

After warriors are defeated they either regroup themselves or they abandon the quest for knowledge and join the ranks of the petty tyrants for life."

(Starting with a very notable quote from Castaneda's mentor, Don Juan Matus: “... a warrior who stumbles on a petty tyrant is a lucky one.”
In which case, think of how lucky we are today, to have so very many petty tyrants to choose from!! :nod::sad:

And what an opportunity, to see so many petty tyrants being revealed on the world stage, and even battling amongst themselves, making it ever more evident exactly what they are and how they operate to achieve their goals.

I think for me, the most perfect petty tyrant today is Bill Gates.
He is so slimy and despicable, I am reminded of the entity which the Thesophists call " Ahriman", who differs from Satan in that his realm is grounded in technology.
See: "Ahriman: The Synthetic Soul of Transhumanism - The Great Ctrl+Alt+Del In the fast-evolving landscape of technology, the transhumanist movement seeks to transcend the limitations of the human condition through the integration of advanced technologies. Central to this vision is the concept of the "synthetic soul")
From: https://whowhatwhere.substack.com/p/ahriman-the-synthetic-soul-of-transhumanism
Who better fits that description than the founder of Microsoft and the worldwide purveyor of the "VAXX", which Steiner foretold in 1917 would be developed and would "drive all inclination toward spirituality out of people’s souls".
From:https://nexusnewsfeed.com/article/human-rights/in-1917-rudolf-steiner-foresaw-a-vaccine-that-would-drive-all-inclination-toward-spirituality-out-of-people-s-souls-1/

More about Ahriman from Rudolf Steiner's writings:
https://anthroposophy.eu/Ahrimanic_beings_and_their_influences
Steiner's sculpture of Ahriman
https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Ahriman.jpg

Also see:
Elon SCORCHES Bill Gates Over Epstein Island!
The Jimmy Dore Show
1.55M subscribers
Jun 5, 2025

The description on this youtube page from the Jimmy Dore show doesn't mention Musk's comments about Bill Gates' association with Epstein, long after Epstein's pedo crimes were known, or the clip that is shown of Gates being interviewed and queried about that.
But that IS the subject of the 9 minute video (not Musk and Trump's disagreement, which is what the video description mistakenly says.)
It's well worth watching as Gates is asked by the interviewer about his long association with Epstein, even after Epstein was publicly outed as a pedophile.
Gates clearly did not expect that question, and his face betrays him as he tries to justify his actions. :yuck:
The barely masked rage and hateful sneer are impossible to mistake for anything else... :evil: :mad2:

Fz1CI6WRPrk

Compare the sculpture of Ahriman by Steiner and the sour face of Bill Gates in the youtube video above, as he is unexpectedly confronted with his own evil.

But then again, I can see Ahriman as a synthesis of several men currently battling for global domination.
Wouldn't it be ironic if in the process, they bring about each other's defeat...
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.QE7trZ5VLuhUn8RdN3gIwQHaDt%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=f204e1eef47cbd083eb236fe4614be9be4fbbff6e882a3cc16bf034e80870f67&ipo=images

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%2Fid%2FOIP.-pAS8fk_21z1IG2NkO3sbAHaD4%3Fr%3D0%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=26496a385837b9a3a43e655ba401de95ef199aea0f0876d9d5229624ac23dcab&ipo=images
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%2Fid%2FOIP.HUngzm7HRRIz3Y_BuV6EkQHaJr%3Fpid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=abd8fcd6e923a16012623f61cf1dff487cf6487fcb8412162c4a813b5be57ef8&ipo=images
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/10/25/us/25TRUMPTAPES1/25TRUMPTAPES1-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp

[Orph]

Ventriloquist Jeff Dunham and one of his "dummies". (below)



June 26, 2017

Steiner's sculpture of Ahriman
https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Ahriman.jpg


https://www.jeffdunham.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/walter-4.png

[Ernie Nemeth]

Trump came onto the political scene in 2015 and I could not have cared less.

Then came the vax and everything changed.
The world went crazy over that crack head George whatever's drug-fuelled death and the radicals proceeded to burn down America. Common sense was rejected for emotional virtue signalling. Then derelicts of all stripes and all the fringe lunatics took center stage. Like a three-ring circus, we were left not knowing where to turn our attention next. One mind rape after another desensitized the entire world to the travesties of justice all around us.

No one in authority would take our side. No one in the media opposed the rhetoric. Lies were spewed in all directions and the public sucked it up like a hoover. Hate and fear took over. Irrational decisions became par for the course.

Then the election was stolen in 2020 and most had had enough. Some tuned out, others gave up. Most kept their heads down and their opinions to themselves. I feared for the future of logic and reason. How could it ever come back? How could we return to a time of peace and acceptance without radical ideologies shoved down our throats?


Since the focus was "Get Trump", it wasn't very hard to figure out where hope resides.

That is why I support Trump. Not the man, not the movement, not the allure. Just the hope. The hope that although we may never go back to "the way things were", we can at least hope for a future that includes sanity and justice.

And let's face it, is there even another person in his league? He is a winner and he tells it like it is. No one else is in a better position to help us win back our lives.
I need that. Deep in my soul, I need that so much...

[Raskolnikov]

I can agree with your take on Trump, Ernie, never cared for the guy until he became President, then at least the Presidential reality show became more entertaining, "You are fake news." Definitely felt closer to the voice of the people.

Since I don't know where else to put this, and because it seems to encapsulate my belief that it's not about Trump or the two-party-divide-and-conquer-system but the hidden hand now playing its hand, this video is interesting for the fact that it shows the pallets of bricks (cinder blocks this time) left for protesters in the current ICE protests taking place in Los Angeles.

It's worth mentioning that there is a grey area here unless they're strictly going after violent illegals and not those who may be illegal but have been living there for years or decades even and have families, jobs, lives and actually love America. LA has always had that illegal element from Mexico. It was never that difficult to cross the southern California/Mexico border. We'd see 'em on north bound freight trains when I was growing up down there. So I hope they're going after the more recent influx of military aged men and not the family men.

But the pallet of blocks (shown at the 5:00 mark in the video) shows the hidden hand at play again just like during the "mostly peaceful" riots of 2020. So Trump gets elected and now they're picking up right where they left off before the stolen the election. And I heard these ICE protests are happening in many cities across America right now. Be interesting to know if the pallets are there too. So they're starting things up again, many in the riots actually look like antifa in all black and masked. And if you take into account the Event 201-like warning for July 4th, it sounds like we may be in for a bumpy ride.

My "hope" is that we can somehow overcome all this orchestrated division, stop viewing others as enemies and more like those who've been misguided and need help, albeit professional help, and then come together and unmask the real villains behind the scenes like the ending of a Scooby Doo episode.:chuckle:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBJpt_mbtUM

[SilentFeathers]

I can agree with your take on Trump, Ernie, never cared for the guy until he became President, then at least the Presidential reality show became more entertaining, "You are fake news." Definitely felt closer to the voice of the people.

Since I don't know where else to put this, and because it seems to encapsulate my belief that it's not about Trump or the two-party-divide-and-conquer-system but the hidden hand now playing its hand, this video is interesting for the fact that it shows the pallets of bricks (cinder blocks this time) left for protesters in the current ICE protests taking place in Los Angeles.

It's worth mentioning that there is a grey area here unless they're strictly going after violent illegals and not those who may be illegal but have been living there for years or decades even and have families, jobs, lives and actually love America. LA has always had that illegal element from Mexico. It was never that difficult to cross the southern California/Mexico border. We'd see 'em on north bound freight trains when I was growing up down there. So I hope they're going after the more recent influx of military aged men and not the family men.

But the pallet of blocks (shown at the 5:00 mark in the video) shows the hidden hand at play again just like during the "mostly peaceful" riots of 2020. So Trump gets elected and now they're picking up right where they left off before the stolen the election. And I heard these ICE protests are happening in many cities across America right now. Be interesting to know if the pallets are there too. So they're starting things up again, many in the riots actually look like antifa in all black and masked. And if you take into account the Event 201-like warning for July 4th, it sounds like we may be in for a bumpy ride.

My "hope" is that we can somehow overcome all this orchestrated division, stop viewing others as enemies and more like those who've been misguided and need help, albeit professional help, and then come together and unmask the real villains behind the scenes like the ending of a Scooby Doo episode.:chuckle:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBJpt_mbtUM

Yes, the pallets of bricks are there, I seen them in several clips. This "Summer of Love 2.0" is just getting started. It'll be way worse than it was in 2020 as the psychopaths imported several hundred thousand "soldiers" from around the globe that don't have anything better to do than to cause chaos and destruction. (They just haven't released them yet).

[onawah]

There is an explanation for the rising tide of insanity that is related to a rising tide of even more enormous proportions, that being the rising tides of tsunamis that will be inundating coastlines worldwide before very long, the estimates being from a decade to two at the most.
See:
tb3UGS90GoE
(Also posted here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?107798-Geomagnetic-Reversals-and-Ice-Ages&p=1671642&viewfull=1#post1671642 )
...Specifically, see the trailer contained in that update from Ben Davidson's SpaceWeatherNews previewing the new documentary which is scheduled to be released this Fall.

There is no lack of scientific data demonstrating how strong outbursts of energy from the Sun affects human behavior here on Earth.
Aside from causing an increase in heart attacks, strokes, etc. there is also an increase in violence and unusual, irrational behavior.
Although there is still a lot of mystery surrounding the human subconscious mind and how it functions, there is clear evidence that it works collectively as well as individually.
As do animals, whole groups of people can demonstrate a kind of instinctive "knowing" of events to come based on similar events that have happened in the past, even the very distant past.
So in addition to the current effects felt from the Sun's energies impacting the planet now, there is likely a shared subconscious undercurrent of uneasiness and anxiety due to collective memories of the distant past when the solar cycle caused immense, planetwide cataclysms.
...Also causing very erratic and irrational, also violent behavior particularly in the more susceptible individuals.
This will likely be on the rise as the poles continue to reverse and the planet's magnetism diminishes more and more rapidly.

The 1 percent seem to know this, and it's certain to be a motivating factor behind the depopulation agenda and their desire for complete control.
Trump can't help but be part of that; though he may try to minimize it, he's surrounded by those who are completely caught up in it.
Although many researchers attribute Trump's reluctance to divulge certain information that he is privy to to ET/UFO activity, I think it probably also has very much to do with the devastating effects of the current, ongoing geomagnetic pole reversal.
...Which if it suddenly becomes public knowledge, would cause even more widespread panic and uprisings than we are seeing now.
Nevertheless, the mainstream media is beginning to leak hints of what is coming.
See:https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?107798-Geomagnetic-Reversals-and-Ice-Ages&p=1671512&viewfull=1#post1671512
The changes are getting too obvious to hide.
Once that is well known, will it spark a collective planetary instinct for self-preservation, or will it become more of an "every man for himself" competition for survival?
Probably a lot of both.

Trump may be the man of the hour, well equipped for surfing these very erratic waves, as he seems to thrive on chaos, but he is not in his prime and that will likely tell in time.
The chaos is still in the beginning stages, and so far mankind doesn't have enough structure equipped to handle it with the amount of skill necessary.
If some benevolent ET races publicly step in to assist, that could help (once the panic died down from such an unprecedented event), and it seems likely there have been some working behind the scenes already.
So have the regressive ETs apparently, so there is also that...

I think hope has to come from within and not be based on any hero or heroes coming to save us.
An understanding of what is happening and why helps a lot with facing the challenges, and equipping one's self with realistic expectations that keep shock at a minimum.


Trump came onto the political scene in 2015 and I could not have cared less.
Then came the vax and everything changed.
The world went crazy over that crack head George whatever's drug-fuelled death and the radicals proceeded to burn down America. Common sense was rejected for emotional virtue signalling. Then derelicts of all stripes and all the fringe lunatics took center stage. Like a three-ring circus, we were left not knowing where to turn our attention next. One mind rape after another desensitized the entire world to the travesties of justice all around us.
No one in authority would take our side. No one in the media opposed the rhetoric. Lies were spewed in all directions and the public sucked it up like a hoover. Hate and fear took over. Irrational decisions became par for the course.

[onawah]

THE FIRESTORM APPROACHES
Redpill Daily News Brief/Decentralized Media
Jun 07, 2025
https://redpillproject.substack.com/p/the-firestorm-approaches?utm_source=cross-post&publication_id=682061&post_id=165444802&utm_campaign=1658626&isFreemail=true&r=p7227&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

( How this will end is anybody's guess, but it is certainly convincing evidence of the kind of chaos we can expect to see upcoming.
Videos at the link not embedded here)

"Over the past few years, I’ve warned about what I call the FireStorm Event — a five-stage model of controlled collapse. It isn’t spontaneous. It isn’t grassroots. It’s engineered destabilization, and it unfolds in phases:

Cultural & Social Destabilization

Political Destabilization

Attacks on Infrastructure & Supply Chain

Economic Collapse

World War III

Right now, as of this writing, we may be stepping into Phase Two, with indicators of Phase Three beginning to flash.

Let me walk you through what’s happening — and why it’s deeply strategic.

🟥 ICE Under Siege in California

Los Angeles has become the frontline.

Protesters, many of them radicalized and coordinated, are turning violent.
They are targeting ICE agents, federal facilities, and local law enforcement.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faa57fc12-a36e-446c-afcf-53ddb00e1951_1080x810.jpeg

🔻 Pallets of cement bricks have been discovered in front of ICE gates, not behind them.
🔻 ICE raids are being leaked on Reddit in real time.
🔻 ICE agents are now wearing masks to protect themselves and their families.
🔻 Protesters are showing up with intent to harm.
This is not organic.
This is tactical.

Trump vs. Newsom: The Narrative War
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc228cc4a-e717-4b1e-b53f-ba0f05e72db5_588x165.png

California Governor Gavin Newsom is blaming Donald Trump for the violence in his own state — the classic political inversion tactic. Meanwhile, Tom Homan, former ICE Director, has confirmed that Trump may activate the National Guard tonight under Article 10 — also known as the Insurrection Act.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c06af9f-d7f9-4e11-a6c7-e7202e21f66e_646x680.jpeg

This would give the federal government direct control over riot zones, bypassing state leadership.

Trump’s words:
“If Newsom and Bass can’t do their jobs, the federal government will.”

This is a constitutional moment — and the trap is being set.

STATEMENT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE

“In recent days, violent mobs have attacked ICE Officers and Federal Law Enforcement Agents carrying out basic deportation operations in Los Angeles, California. These operations are essential to halting and reversing the invasion of illegal criminals into the United States. In the wake of this violence, California’s feckless Democrat leaders have completely abdicated their responsibility to protect their citizens. That is why President Trump has signed a Presidential Memorandum deploying 2,000 National Guardsmen to address the lawlessness that has been allowed to fester. The Trump Administration has a zero tolerance policy for criminal behavior and violence, especially when that violence is aimed at law enforcement officers trying to do their jobs. These criminals will be arrested and swiftly brought to justice. The Commander-in-Chief will ensure the laws of the United States are executed fully and completely.”

-Karoline Leavitt, White House Press Secretary

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F439fb5cf-7b6f-4ec4-bb51-c236015528ac_683x309.jpeg

And while all this is happening…

Russia is unleashing massive retaliation against Ukraine, bombarding them for three days straight.

The U.S. media is almost silent.

The Elon Musk–Donald Trump split is dominating headlines, projecting a weak and fractured White House.

Trump is being portrayed as unbriefed on military intel like Putin’s assassination attempt.

This is Sun Tzu in real time:

“Appear weak when you are strong.”

Trump is not out of control.
He is waiting. Preparing. Positioning.

Let’s bring in what we discussed last week — the timestamp moment:

Elon receives “the key to the nation.” The door that unlocks all doors, the start.

Trump timestamps, “Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom” A week to remember.

A global chessboard clicks into place.

🔥 The Real Threat: The Hidden Army
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54327b79-d989-4ec3-a233-0edece5e83a8_640x480.jpeg

Let me be blunt.

Over 23 million illegal immigrants have crossed into the U.S. since Biden took office.
Of those, 2 million were gotaways — no identification, no vetting, no oversight.

Among them:

Chinese military-age males, ages 18–35

Hezbollah Unit 910 operatives trained by Iran’s Revolutionary Guard

ISIS, ISIL, Al-Qaeda, Taliban militants

Cartel enforcers and MS-13

And foreign intelligence assets embedded in our urban centers

These people are not here by accident.
They are waiting for activation — and the “Summer of Love 2.0” may be their green light.

🧠 Strategic Overview: What’s Really Happening
Trump has 20,000 troops on the border, not just to stop crossings — but to rapidly deploy across the U.S. within 12 hours if needed. This isn’t just defense. It’s offensive readiness.

He knew this was coming.
He’s been waiting for the Deep State, the CCP, and globalist agents to make their move.
Now they are — and the script is unfolding:

Ignite chaos in sanctuary cities

Force Trump to deploy military under Insurrection Act

Spin it as fascism

Drain U.S. resources in domestic unrest

Trigger China’s Taiwan invasion while America is distracted

Escalate war with Putin before Trump can regain control

We are now in the prelude phase of full-spectrum warfare.

🧨 Final Thought: Buckle Up
I’m not saying the FireStorm has officially begun — but if it had, this is exactly how it would look.

Foreign flags in American cities

Federal agents under siege

Pre-staged bricks as weapons

Governors blaming Trump

Enemies abroad preparing to strike

The board is set. The pieces are moving.

Buckle up.
The FireStorm might just be upon us."

[SilentFeathers]

THE FIRESTORM APPROACHES
Redpill Daily News Brief/Decentralized Media
Jun 07, 2025
https://redpillproject.substack.com/p/the-firestorm-approaches?utm_source=cross-post&publication_id=682061&post_id=165444802&utm_campaign=1658626&isFreemail=true&r=p7227&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

( How this will end is anybody's guess, but it is certainly convincing evidence of the kind of chaos we can expect to see upcoming.
Videos at the link not embedded here)

"Over the past few years, I’ve warned about what I call the FireStorm Event — a five-stage model of controlled collapse. It isn’t spontaneous. It isn’t grassroots. It’s engineered destabilization, and it unfolds in phases:

Cultural & Social Destabilization

Political Destabilization

Attacks on Infrastructure & Supply Chain

Economic Collapse

World War III

Right now, as of this writing, we may be stepping into Phase Two, with indicators of Phase Three beginning to flash.

Let me walk you through what’s happening — and why it’s deeply strategic.

🟥 ICE Under Siege in California

Los Angeles has become the frontline.

Protesters, many of them radicalized and coordinated, are turning violent.
They are targeting ICE agents, federal facilities, and local law enforcement.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faa57fc12-a36e-446c-afcf-53ddb00e1951_1080x810.jpeg

🔻 Pallets of cement bricks have been discovered in front of ICE gates, not behind them.
🔻 ICE raids are being leaked on Reddit in real time.
🔻 ICE agents are now wearing masks to protect themselves and their families.
🔻 Protesters are showing up with intent to harm.
This is not organic.
This is tactical.

Trump vs. Newsom: The Narrative War
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc228cc4a-e717-4b1e-b53f-ba0f05e72db5_588x165.png

California Governor Gavin Newsom is blaming Donald Trump for the violence in his own state — the classic political inversion tactic. Meanwhile, Tom Homan, former ICE Director, has confirmed that Trump may activate the National Guard tonight under Article 10 — also known as the Insurrection Act.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c06af9f-d7f9-4e11-a6c7-e7202e21f66e_646x680.jpeg

This would give the federal government direct control over riot zones, bypassing state leadership.

Trump’s words:
“If Newsom and Bass can’t do their jobs, the federal government will.”

This is a constitutional moment — and the trap is being set.

STATEMENT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE

“In recent days, violent mobs have attacked ICE Officers and Federal Law Enforcement Agents carrying out basic deportation operations in Los Angeles, California. These operations are essential to halting and reversing the invasion of illegal criminals into the United States. In the wake of this violence, California’s feckless Democrat leaders have completely abdicated their responsibility to protect their citizens. That is why President Trump has signed a Presidential Memorandum deploying 2,000 National Guardsmen to address the lawlessness that has been allowed to fester. The Trump Administration has a zero tolerance policy for criminal behavior and violence, especially when that violence is aimed at law enforcement officers trying to do their jobs. These criminals will be arrested and swiftly brought to justice. The Commander-in-Chief will ensure the laws of the United States are executed fully and completely.”

-Karoline Leavitt, White House Press Secretary

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F439fb5cf-7b6f-4ec4-bb51-c236015528ac_683x309.jpeg

And while all this is happening…

Russia is unleashing massive retaliation against Ukraine, bombarding them for three days straight.

The U.S. media is almost silent.

The Elon Musk–Donald Trump split is dominating headlines, projecting a weak and fractured White House.

Trump is being portrayed as unbriefed on military intel like Putin’s assassination attempt.

This is Sun Tzu in real time:

“Appear weak when you are strong.”

Trump is not out of control.
He is waiting. Preparing. Positioning.

Let’s bring in what we discussed last week — the timestamp moment:

Elon receives “the key to the nation.” The door that unlocks all doors, the start.

Trump timestamps, “Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom” A week to remember.

A global chessboard clicks into place.

🔥 The Real Threat: The Hidden Army
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54327b79-d989-4ec3-a233-0edece5e83a8_640x480.jpeg

Let me be blunt.

Over 23 million illegal immigrants have crossed into the U.S. since Biden took office.
Of those, 2 million were gotaways — no identification, no vetting, no oversight.

Among them:

Chinese military-age males, ages 18–35

Hezbollah Unit 910 operatives trained by Iran’s Revolutionary Guard

ISIS, ISIL, Al-Qaeda, Taliban militants

Cartel enforcers and MS-13

And foreign intelligence assets embedded in our urban centers

These people are not here by accident.
They are waiting for activation — and the “Summer of Love 2.0” may be their green light.

🧠 Strategic Overview: What’s Really Happening
Trump has 20,000 troops on the border, not just to stop crossings — but to rapidly deploy across the U.S. within 12 hours if needed. This isn’t just defense. It’s offensive readiness.

He knew this was coming.
He’s been waiting for the Deep State, the CCP, and globalist agents to make their move.
Now they are — and the script is unfolding:

Ignite chaos in sanctuary cities

Force Trump to deploy military under Insurrection Act

Spin it as fascism

Drain U.S. resources in domestic unrest

Trigger China’s Taiwan invasion while America is distracted

Escalate war with Putin before Trump can regain control

We are now in the prelude phase of full-spectrum warfare.

🧨 Final Thought: Buckle Up
I’m not saying the FireStorm has officially begun — but if it had, this is exactly how it would look.

Foreign flags in American cities

Federal agents under siege

Pre-staged bricks as weapons

Governors blaming Trump

Enemies abroad preparing to strike

The board is set. The pieces are moving.

Buckle up.
The FireStorm might just be upon us."

The above post by Onawah should be a start of a new thread.

I totally agree with this assessment, it sounds a lot like many of the things I (and many others) on this forum have been posting about for the last two years or more.

Just to add to it, I really think there is a specific reason they are starting this in LA, and basically only mostly focusing on LA. There must be some type of symbolic reason or something like that. Probably satanic symbolism of some sort IMO.

California and specifically LA is possibly where the deep state have housed many of these young fighting age illegals. This could be the beginning of an orchestrated and by design civil war. Trump Derangement Syndrome on steroids.

It's no accident Gavin Newsom is front and center in this mess either. Karen Bass may seem like a nobody in this equation but do your homework on her and you'll quickly see what a demon she is.

ADDED: Now would be a great time for an 8.5 Earthquake to hit LA, it would give all these idiots something else to think about and to do in their spare time.

[onawah]

"City of the Angels" L.A. does seem like a likely target for the Satanic underlords.
I imagine those big earthquakes on the coast faultlines aren't too far off, judging from all the indicators.
Meanwhile as in the days just before the Fall of Atlantis, the mass migration inland from the coast continues.


The above post by Onawah should be a start of a new thread.

I totally agree with this assessment, it sounds a lot like many of the things I (and many others) on this forum have been posting about for the last two years or more.

Just to add to it, I really think there is a specific reason they are starting this in LA, and basically only mostly focusing on LA. There must be some type of symbolic reason or something like that. Probably satanic symbolism of some sort IMO.

California and specifically LA is possibly where the deep state have housed many of these young fighting age illegals. This could be the beginning of an orchestrated and by design civil war. Trump Derangement Syndrome on steroids.

It's no accident Gavin Newsom is front and center in this mess either. Karen Bass may seem like a nobody in this equation but do your homework on her and you'll quickly see what a demon she is.

ADDED: Now would be a great time for an 8.5 Earthquake to hit LA, it would give all these idiots something else to think about and to do in their spare time.

[ExomatrixTV]

...
For all neutral visitors thinking Project Avalon is somehow "hijacked by pro-Trumpers" (I respectfully disagree! (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129749-Bill-Ryan-s-Mission-and-His-Lunchbox-Sociopath-du-Jour-and-Unicorn-Urine&p=1670226&viewfull=1#post1670226)) may not know we also have Project Avalon Forum Threads like:


"Trump is Not the Answer (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1664813&viewfull=1#post1664813)"
"Trump a Russian Agent (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129366-TRUMP-a-RUSSIAN-agent&p=1660361&viewfull=1#post1660361)"

In other words, SOME people can not handle real diversity of views, being hyper focused on anyone defending Trump ... I defended Trump not because I am a "Trumper", am not, am not even from the USA (am Dutch 🇳🇱 being a big supporter of RFK Jr. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120744-Robert-F.-Kennedy-Jr-s-Presidential-Campaign&p=1555358&viewfull=1#post1555358) because of way more reasons than Trump can be ...) ... but saying all that, I still can see HOW Trump is misrepresented, how he is attacked & framed AND the endless corrupt lawfare as well! He even survived 2 assassination attempts which Biden nor Obama, nor Clintons ever faced!

By the way, we have plenty of videos shared on Project Avalon Forum that calls out/challenges Donald Trump, like:


David Icke (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?118505-David-Icke-at-70-The-Vindication&p=1649023&viewfull=1#post1649023), Col Doug Macgregor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYDciWOveD8), Jeffrey Sachs (https://rumble.com/search/all?q=%22Jeffrey%20Sachs%22%20Trump), Candace Owens (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJtAUKgkqc0), Ron & Rand Paul, Bret Weinstein, Jimmy Dore (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg1JZDIconk), Dr. Naomi Wolf, David Knight (https://rumble.com/c/TheDavidKnightShow), Derrick Broze, Bill Binney & Dr. Katherine Horton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lni4Yv8l0k), Dr. Joseph Farrell, Alexander Mercouris, Catherine Austin Fitts (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120498-Catherine-Austin-Fitts-on-Tucker-Carlson-about-CBDCs), James Corbett, Whitney Webb (https://rumble.com/search/all?q=%22Whitney%20Webb%22), Aaron Maté (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzN7B62KU2k), Max Igan, Daniel Liszt (Dark Journalist), Chris Sky (https://rumble.com/v6ufpk1-chris-sky-talks-about-current-events.html), Luke Rudkowski (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU-w5L79ktk), Michael Malice, Mike Adams, Kim Iversen (https://rumble.com/search/all?q=%22Kim%20Iversen%22), Scott Ritter (https://rumble.com/search/all?q=Scott%20Ritter), Tarl E. Warwick, An0maly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_qKhHbD3EU) ... and many more ...

All of them (29+ key-people!) are highly critical towards some (or a lot) of the Trumps actions! ... All to be found on our Forum here! ... There is so much critical stuff exposing the FLAWS of Trump that I can not see Avalon being "hijacked" by "pro-Trumpers".

So it is an obvious subjective feeling, maybe because some stuff is contradicting the MSM anti-Trump mass brainwashing so well, it seems like we have to "choose" >>> which it is not about that, it is about setting the record straight as good as some forum members can, and have, in my view, a 100% right to do so!

https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/v1/user/27474914.f5b631e7.160x160o.f6c78faaf102@2x.png (https://substack.com/@johnkuhles)


cheers,
John Kuhles (https://substack.com/@johnkuhles) 🦜🦋🌳

--o-O-o--

Worth repeating:




. I am wondering how you can have a good and positive opinion about Trump???
It's called discernment. Or balance. Or equilibrium. Or open-mindedness. Or maybe just common sense.

The world is rarely black and white, it never was. It is for the most cases shades of grey (exceptions exist of course: Nazism, pedophilia, murder, 'real' racism, etc. - but none of this is Trump).

So in the case of Trump you can find lots of negatives, but also positives or 'in-betweens / don't knows or don't cares' depending on the topic or context.

You do not display this balance at all. You just present one EXTREME side. 100% bad and 0% good. Likewise, those who see Trump 100% good and thus form a kind of (MAGA) cult are also extreme in the same way, just the other way round.

Maybe an interesting 'exercise' or 'experiment' for you would be the following (meant as a teaser): Just give it a try and attempt to find ONE (or even two) positive things about Trump, what he has done, said, stood for, one of his policies, decisions, etc.. I know you might refuse at first but it is always possible to find sth. Always. Give it a shot, just for a change.

So... what is it? :sherlock:
Fg1JZDIconk



see also this (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?129749-Bill-Ryan-s-Mission-and-His-Lunchbox-Sociopath-du-Jour-and-Unicorn-Urine&p=1671467&viewfull=1#post1671467) :dog:

[SilentFeathers]

"City of the Angels" L.A. does seem like a likely target for the Satanic underlords.
I imagine those big earthquakes on the coast faultlines aren't too far off, judging from all the indicators.
Meanwhile as in the days just before the Fall of Atlantis, the mass migration inland from the coast continues.


The above post by Onawah should be a start of a new thread.

I totally agree with this assessment, it sounds a lot like many of the things I (and many others) on this forum have been posting about for the last two years or more.

Just to add to it, I really think there is a specific reason they are starting this in LA, and basically only mostly focusing on LA. There must be some type of symbolic reason or something like that. Probably satanic symbolism of some sort IMO.

California and specifically LA is possibly where the deep state have housed many of these young fighting age illegals. This could be the beginning of an orchestrated and by design civil war. Trump Derangement Syndrome on steroids.

It's no accident Gavin Newsom is front and center in this mess either. Karen Bass may seem like a nobody in this equation but do your homework on her and you'll quickly see what a demon she is.

ADDED: Now would be a great time for an 8.5 Earthquake to hit LA, it would give all these idiots something else to think about and to do in their spare time.

"City of Angels". There are two types of Angels, the good angels and the fallen angels. I would lean towards it being the fallen angels in this case ;)

LA has also been "selected" for the summer games of the 2028 Olympics, we all know how satanic and demonic the opening ceremony is for that event.

I'm certain (in my gut) that LA has also been "selected" for this too. Major dark and demonic forces are at work here.

....and it's just getting started.

[SilentFeathers]

LA is like the perfect and ultimate iconic progressive city, one side of town there's thousands of people celebrating pride month and bad mouthing all the racists, and the other side of town there's thousands of illegal aliens throwing bricks at cops, looting and lighting things on fire.

One big and beautiful sanctuary city.....utopia

[ExomatrixTV]

LA is like the perfect and ultimate iconic progressive city, one side of town there's thousands of people celebrating pride month and bad mouthing all the racists, and the other side of town there's thousands of illegal aliens throwing bricks at cops, looting and lighting things on fire.

One big and beautiful sanctuary city.....utopia
indeed
1931918038879645977
source (https://x.com/LionelMedia/status/1931918038879645977)

[Raskolnikov]

Newscum's not letting up. He knows he's to blame yet he's inverted the argument to paint Trump as a dictator. Watch how he laughs after saying to Trump, "I will have your back if you want to work in a relationship of Trust and Truth..."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxVBjbjwNCQ
It's pure projection and these people always double down. Here he announces he's going to sue President Trump over his decision to deploy California's National Guard without his permission and then goes on to say that Trump is doing this for political reasons "because he wants to divide us. He wants to attack the rule of law. He wants to attack the democracy. He wants to attack the best of what makes this country, the fundamental, the reasons our founding fathers (more laughter) lived and died." He calls Trump a "Stone Cold Liar" who can't be negociated with.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5pXwHBmUMg
These protests look like they're just getting started so I'm in agreement with SilentFeathers that we should move this thread or start a new one with onawah's Redpill Project entry since it does a good job of summarizing what's now unfolding. Maybe call it Summer of Love 2.0, the return of the "mostly peaceful" protests.

[ExomatrixTV]

LA is like the perfect and ultimate iconic progressive city, one side of town there's thousands of people celebrating pride month and bad mouthing all the racists, and the other side of town there's thousands of illegal aliens throwing bricks at cops, looting and lighting things on fire.

One big and beautiful sanctuary city.....utopia
indeed
1931918038879645977
source (https://x.com/LionelMedia/status/1931918038879645977)


The L.A. Riots LITMUS TEST - Will The US Military Be Willing To SHOOT U.S. ANTIFA??

e7hyDZpbEl4

[christian]

Putin is the true 'Leader of the Free World' right now.

Is rehabilitating the image of Joseph Stalin by whitewashing his reign of terror in school textbooks and erecting about a hundred monuments in his honor part of leading the free world?

Seriously though, I know quite a few highly intelligent people who, at some point in their lives, started devoting themselves to this or that politician, be it Trump or Putin. I never understood it.

It's such a far cry from the fundamental truths that the forum was built on, for example as elaborated in the Handbook for the New Paradigm (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/newparadigm/newparadigm.htm). It's all about personal responsibility, not political force or following this or that politician.

At best, politicians are humble servants—there to serve, not to be followed. At worst, they're megalomaniacal psychopaths administering mass ritual abuse.

If anyone can be leaders of the free world, it's ourselves outside of politics.

[Mike]

Putin is the true 'Leader of the Free World' right now.

Is rehabilitating the image of Joseph Stalin by whitewashing his reign of terror in school textbooks and erecting about a hundred monuments in his honor part of leading the free world?

Seriously though, I know quite a few highly intelligent people who, at some point in their lives, started devoting themselves to this or that politician, be it Trump or Putin. I never understood it.

It's such a far cry from the fundamental truths that the forum was built on, for example as elaborated in the Handbook for the New Paradigm (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/newparadigm/newparadigm.htm). It's all about personal responsibility, not political force or following this or that politician.

At best, politicians are humble servants—there to serve, not to be followed. At worst, they're megalomaniacal psychopaths administering mass ritual abuse.

If anyone can be leaders of the free world, it's ourselves outside of politics.


hey Chris, I think Bill's just saying Putin is holding all the cards at the moment; I didn't read that as a statement of support.

Here in the states anyway, the Trump haters are far more devoted (using your word) than his supporters. By that I mean they are far more emotional and unhinged in their approach. And I think that applies almost universally.

Here on the forum, I don't see Trump devotees, I see pretty thoughtful Trump supporters. There's a big difference.

Perhaps conventionally politicians should be humble servants, but the times are far from conventional and something unconventional is required atm. That something is Trump. imo.

I've written quite a bit about embracing personal responsibility here; I'm all about it. In representative democracies, one of our biggest responsibilities is to invest some energy in deciding who is best for this position or that one, and voting accordingly. Non-participation in politics is irresponsible, wouldn't you say? As with anything, balance is the key. But here's the deal: I couldn't shut down the southern border; I couldn't keep men out of women's sports; I can't forcibly kick criminals out of the country, and so forth. So, one of our greatest responsibilities as Americans anyway was to elect a guy who would.. and to support him. I view that as embracing personal responsibility, not abandoning it.

[christian]

Non-participation in politics is irresponsible, wouldn't you say?

I would say non-participation in politics is key because politics is ritual abuse.

Just as war is the continuation of politics by other means, so is politics the continuation of war by other means. Mao said that "politics is war without bloodshed, while war is politics with bloodshed."

States are ritualistic constructs with election cycles, legislative sessions, and institutions in which people plan and execute systematic mass coercion. Some states are less abusive than others, but all use coercion to tax and govern the citizenry in order to manifest the will of the state, just as cult-based ritual abuse is perpetrated by organized groups that believe it's justified to initiate coercive force. The initiation of coercive force to gain or maintain power is inherently abusive, whether in a state or in an occult network.

See what's happening in occult ritual abuse networks? Kids are told they have to accept coercion against them and they have to participate in coercing others, otherwise they and their loved ones will have to suffer even more. It's exactly the same argument about political coercion. Submit, participate, or you and everyone will have to suffer even more.

Humanity exists in a worldwide ritual abuse network that pretends to be the opposite. Because everyone is so familiar with political propaganda and so conditioned to go along with the apparent necessity of politics, it's so difficult to recognize, let alone break free of it. The reality is that ritual abuse is omnipresent. It's the matrix in which we live.

Politics is inherently evil because it's built on the initiation of coercive force. No end can justify politics as a means. Politics itself must be shunned and abolished. As long as humanity doesn't figure that out, humanity traps itself in a matrix of ritual abuse.

[Mike]

Non-participation in politics is irresponsible, wouldn't you say?

I would say non-participation in politics is key because politics is ritual abuse.

Just as war is the continuation of politics by other means, so is politics the continuation of war by other means. Mao said that "politics is war without bloodshed, while war is politics with bloodshed."

States are ritualistic constructs with election cycles, legislative sessions, and institutions in which people plan and execute systematic mass coercion. Some states are less abusive than others, but all use coercion to tax and govern the citizenry in order to manifest the will of the state, just as cult-based ritual abuse is perpetrated by organized groups that believe it's justified to initiate coercive force. The initiation of coercive force to gain or maintain power is inherently abusive, whether in a state or in an occult network.

See what's happening in occult ritual abuse networks? Kids are told they have to accept coercion against them and they have to participate in coercing others, otherwise they and their loved ones will have to suffer even more. It's exactly the same argument about political coercion. Submit, participate, or you and everyone will have to suffer even more.

Humanity exists in a worldwide ritual abuse network that pretends to be the opposite. Because everyone is so familiar with political propaganda and so conditioned to go along with the apparent necessity of politics, it's so difficult to recognize, let alone break free of it. The reality is that ritual abuse is omnipresent. It's the matrix in which we live.

Politics is inherently evil because it's built on the initiation of coercive force. No end can justify politics as a means. Politics itself must be shunned and abolished. As long as humanity doesn't figure that out, humanity traps itself in a matrix of ritual abuse.


Okay, fair enough. But help me understand how this looks in the real world. Paint a picture for me, one with no government (and not just the utopian end, but the process by which we get there).

[christian]

Paint a picture for me, one with no government (and not just the utopian end, but the process by which we get there).

It's about creating decentralized networks of large and small voluntary enterprises. People with common interests enter into sovereign agreements on all things related to health, safety, education, etc.—as far removed from politics as humanly possible. If anyone is in politics, the main focus must not be on wielding political power for this or that end, but on reducing political power for the sake of abolishing ritual abuse.

Every step towards freedom from politics shifts the balance of power. Therefore, each new step must be considered and executed individually. It's impossible to follow a detailed blueprint for overcoming politics or to outline in advance every single step in a fixed form and progression. Follow the principle and proceed according to the needs of the situation. Keep the goal in mind and take pragmatic steps. Use the stars for orientation, but keep your eyes on the path before you.

An essential part of getting there is realizing that politics is ritual abuse, that using politics for any end is what keeps humanity trapped in a matrix of ritual abuse. The internal realization of this and the internal rejection of ritual abuse through politics is necessary to overcome politics. It's the realization that no one must be allowed or authorized to force their system onto others. You have some idea for how this or that could be done? Great, do it. Find people who agree and do it with them. But don't force your system or your ideas on anyone. To develop this internal conviction and to base one's actions on it is key.

I'm actually in the process of writing a whole lot more about this. I already published it in German in 2019, but the English edition will be greatly expanded. Stay tuned.

[onawah]

I think the root problem is simply that too many people incarnating on Earth currently are not evolved enough to be self-governing and law-abiding, even if there was general agreement about all the issues that generally are at the root of conflicts and problematic behavior.
Once there are too many individuals to live lawfully under simple tribal leadership and more complex structure is created, opportunities for abuse both from the bottom up and the top down also increase.
...If only because things have become more complex and problems are less easily resolved.
Either the tribe has to divide into smaller camps so self-governance remains possible and tribal leadership is minimal, or the root tribe becomes larger and therefore more complex and less easily governed.
When there are too many tribes, conflicts and competition for resources increase between tribes.
When there is just one big tribe, conflicts, complications and competition between individuals increase, therefore conflicts arise within the structure of the governing as well as the governed.

The late Dr. Christopher Hills wrote a brilliant book entitled "Christ Yoga of Peace" (one of many) about how intentional, sustainable communities of the future might become the blueprint for tomorrow's larger societies as well.
(A very 60s kind of title, but the content is quite practical as well as visionary.
Sadly, it's out of print these days, but it can still be found if you search.
His grandson is working toward getting the many out-of-print books on Kindle or something similar).
For a list of books by Dr. Hills see:https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/110335.Christopher_Hills

His vision necessitates agreement among all participating members of the community about basic values and goals.
That kind of mindset is what forms the basis of the process he envisioned as it evolves, and that of course, is critical.
As communities grow there are processes he envisioned that would help keep such growth and the accompanying problems manageable.
His book "Creative Conflict" explains how individuals in such groups can arrive at conflict resolution peacefully.
The process is clearly explained and it also incorporates the use of tools like meditation and the ancient oracle book, the "I Ching" for insights into whatever issues might be encountered along the way.
But I think that as individuals evolve and become more empathic and telepathic, the way to live peacefully in community comes about fairly naturally, and Earth will be in the beginning stages of moving in that direction before long.
But there will be a lot of reorganizing and "housecleaning" by Nature herself before that happens...when the planet itself is ailing and much in need of healing, humanity will necessarily be as well.
They go hand in hand, by design.
Earth is not here for humanity to plunder, and until that is recognized, humanity cannot really evolve very far as a whole.
Individual souls may still evolve under such conditions, but only with great difficulty.
Such individuals have helped to bring up the general level of soul evolution for the whole, but that only comes about in increments.
The need for more than just that slow, incremental process has become vital if the planet is to remain capable of supporting Life.

[Michel Leclerc]

Christian, Mike, Bill.

As I am reputed to have authored that little phrase: what I meant at the time was that the U.S. (then and now) President is NOT the Leader of the free world because the world he “leads” is not free. To sharpen my implicit criticism of ourselves (and then drop it, because I am over-tired by the “repetition of the repeated”): the West is inhabited by slaves.

I happen to have contacts in/from South America, North Africa, Equatorial Africa, the Near and the Middle East. They are not free – in the sense that they are treated as slaves by the West – but they are not slaves, because their souls are free. They gyrate around and within the “BRICS New World”. They overall consider Vladimir Putin as their world’s leader. We could see the reality of that feeling in Moscow, recently.

Maybe – after another century of cold, lukewarm and hot war – they will be ultimately defeated by the West. Or by the Deep State, which is the same. It will still despise them as slaves while it is killing them. But whatever it does, it cannot enslave them – certainly not beyond the threshold of death.

In the New Creation the killers will have a reincarnation choice between vermin and vermin.

[161803398]

It is the rare politician that is not bought off or blackmailed into falling in line. It drives me crazy that there are still people that think a man born into money who made a real estate business and reality show career off being self-interested, crude and deceptive would have the interest of common people in mind when doing anything.

I think nothing is more disastrous for a country than wanting to make heroes out of politicians.

[christian]

I happen to have contacts in/from South America, North Africa, Equatorial Africa, the Near and the Middle East. […] They overall consider Vladimir Putin as their world’s leader.

I don't doubt that your contacts see it that way, but I doubt it's a universal sentiment in these regions. For example, I know people from Syria and Venezuela who hate Putin for supporting tyrannical governments in these countries. Doesn't mean they like the new Western-backed Syrian government though. From what I can see, most people everywhere are skeptical of politicians and politics in general, and rightfully so. The conflict between BRICS and the West is as phony as the conflict between Republicans and Democrats, and the solution isn't cheering for this or that side, but to take self-responsibility.

[Mike]

Paint a picture for me, one with no government (and not just the utopian end, but the process by which we get there).

It's about creating decentralized networks of large and small voluntary enterprises. People with common interests enter into sovereign agreements on all things related to health, safety, education, etc.—as far removed from politics as humanly possible. If anyone is in politics, the main focus must not be on wielding political power for this or that end, but on reducing political power for the sake of abolishing ritual abuse.

Every step towards freedom from politics shifts the balance of power. Therefore, each new step must be considered and executed individually. It's impossible to follow a detailed blueprint for overcoming politics or to outline in advance every single step in a fixed form and progression. Follow the principle and proceed according to the needs of the situation. Keep the goal in mind and take pragmatic steps. Use the stars for orientation, but keep your eyes on the path before you.

An essential part of getting there is realizing that politics is ritual abuse, that using politics for any end is what keeps humanity trapped in a matrix of ritual abuse. The internal realization of this and the internal rejection of ritual abuse through politics is necessary to overcome politics. It's the realization that no one must be allowed or authorized to force their system onto others. You have some idea for how this or that could be done? Great, do it. Find people who agree and do it with them. But don't force your system or your ideas on anyone. To develop this internal conviction and to base one's actions on it is key.

I'm actually in the process of writing a whole lot more about this. I already published it in German in 2019, but the English edition will be greatly expanded. Stay tuned.


I think I would define politics as the process of maneuvering in a hierarchical structure to obtain power or influence. Something like that, roughly speaking.

And since hierarchal structures are inevitable and everywhere, so are politics. Whether it's an affinity group, a sports team, a business, family, or any kind of dynamic where people are gathering in groups, something like a hierarchal governmental structure will emerge eventually.

Decentralized networks, no matter how well intended, wouldn't be immune. Among those groups some people would reveal themselves to be better at different things (farming, teaching, building etc), and some would naturally become leaders. Those leaders would have people immediately beneath them, and those people would have others beneath them, and so on. It's just inevitable. A structure of some sort would emerge, and regardless of what you called it, it would essentially be a government.

Hierarchies are prone to corruption but you can't just get rid of them, because you'd flatten competence as a result. That's something like communism, and we all know how that ends.

I don't view it as government vs no government. I see it as a delicate balance between order and chaos ..one that always has to be tended to and rebalanced when necessary. If you're against any government at all, you'll find yourself drowning in chaos; if you're too oriented towards government to the detriment of all else, you'll have tyrannical order. There's a balance to be achieved there. The U.S. Constitution, for example, seeks to achieve this thru checks and balances. It's far from perfect but it's the best attempt there is as far as I can tell.

[Mike]

It is the rare politician that is not bought off or blackmailed into falling in line. It drives me crazy that there are still people that think a man born into money who made a real estate business and reality show career off being self-interested, crude and deceptive would have the interest of common people in mind when doing anything.

I think nothing is more disastrous for a country than wanting to make heroes out of politicians.

Sometimes politicians are heroes. 95% of the time they're not, but it shouldn't stop us from acknowledging those who are.

[SilentFeathers]

The U.S. Constitution, for example, seeks to achieve this thru checks and balances. It's far from perfect but it's the best attempt there is as far as I can tell.

We are seeing first hand what happens in a constitutional republic when those with no moral compass choose to break the rules and when the "leaders" refuse to enforce the rules, the checks and balances disappear. Society decays and turns into chaos.

A spiritually broken society will almost never find a solution until it's to late. Then it just starts from scratch all over again and ends up the same way. The great circle of life and the human story.

[Raskolnikov]

I think the root problem is simply that too many people incarnating on Earth currently are not evolved enough to be self-governing and law-abiding...

That's the key point in all of this. I used to put it like this: "When people learn to govern themselves, there will be no further need of government." Doesn't the etymological breakdown of "government" translate to "control of the mind" or something similar to steering the mind? Sounds like the sole purpose of most government programs today. Minimal government, the way the American forefathers intended, is a good start, but we've really strayed, didn't remain vigilant as they warned, and now we're in the same mess they were in, worse when you think of the advancement of technology for the purposes of total control.

We've got a nice framework for a true republic of, by, and for the people, but we need a populace with a stronger moral compass and personal responsibilty, people willing to root out the rats who've taken over the ship.

[Bill Ryan]

hey Chris, I think Bill's just saying Putin is holding all the cards at the moment; I didn't read that as a statement of support.No, it's a statement of full support. :P:)

:focus:

[christian]

I think I would define politics as the process of maneuvering in a hierarchical structure to obtain power or influence. Something like that, roughly speaking.

And since hierarchal structures are inevitable and everywhere, so are politics.

Not every hierarchical structure is that of a government. The key feature of government is that it claims authority over everyone. Officially, every person on planet Earth is subject to this or that government authority. But there are many other hierarchies that people are not forced to be a part of. There's a hierarchy on this forum, but membership is voluntary. Therefore, I would define politics as the art or science of gaining, guiding, and executing government power.

Hierarchies are indeed natural and helpful. It's a universal moral motive of human civilization. According to Tage Rai and Alan Fiske, "Hierarchy is the motive to respect rank in social groups where superiors are entitled to deference and respect but must also lead, guide, direct, and protect subordinates."

To become part of a hierarchy can happen through voluntary consent or coercion. I'm not against hierarchies, I'm against forcing anyone into a hierarchy without consent. I prefer that people have the right to be left alone and not be made the means for some other person's or group's end.

I think this was perfectly articulated by Michail Bakunin in God and the State (1882):



Does it follow that I reject all authority? Far from me such a thought. In the matter of boots, I refer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals or railroads, I consult that of the architect or engineer. For such or such special knowledge, I apply to such or such a savant. But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the savant to impose his authority upon me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism censure. I do not content myself with consulting authority in any special branch; I consult several; I compare their opinions and choose that which seems to me the soundest. But I recognize no infallible authority, even in special questions; consequently, whatever respect I may have for the honesty and the sincerity of such or such an individual, I have no absolute faith in any person. Such a faith would be fatal to my reason, to my liberty and even to the success of my undertakings; it would immediately transform me into a stupid slave, an instrument of the will and interests of others.

If I bow before the authority of the specialists and avow my readiness to follow—to a certain extent and as long as may seem to me necessary—their indications and even their directions, it is because their authority is imposed upon me by no one […]. Otherwise I would repel them with horror and bid the devil take their counsels, their directions and their services, certain that they would make me pay, by the loss of my liberty and self-respect, for such scraps of truth, wrapped in a multitude of lies, as they might give me.

I bow before the authority of special men, because it is imposed upon me by my own reason. I am conscious of my inability to grasp, in all its details and positive developments, any very large portion of human knowledge. The greatest intelligence would not be equal to a comprehension of the whole. Thence results, for science as well as for industry, the necessity of the division and association of labor. I receive and I give—such is human life. Each directs and is directed in his turn. Therefore there is no fixed and constant authority, but a continual exchange of mutual, temporary and, above all, voluntary authority and subordination.

I don't want chaos either. I want order. I just don't want it to be legal for anyone to impose their order by force, or to initiate coercive force against anyone in any way.

[Mike]

hey Chris, I think Bill's just saying Putin is holding all the cards at the moment; I didn't read that as a statement of support.No, it's a statement of full support. :P:)

:focus:

Gotcha. (Note to self: never speak for anyone else on the forum:))

[Mike]

I think I would define politics as the process of maneuvering in a hierarchical structure to obtain power or influence. Something like that, roughly speaking.

And since hierarchal structures are inevitable and everywhere, so are politics.

Not every hierarchical structure is that of a government. The key feature of government is that it claims authority over everyone. Officially, every person on planet Earth is subject to this or that government authority. But there are many other hierarchies that people are not forced to be a part of. There's a hierarchy on this forum, but membership is voluntary. Therefore, I would define politics as the art or science of gaining, guiding, and executing government power.

Hierarchies are indeed natural and helpful. It's a universal moral motive of human civilization. According to Tage Rai and Alan Fiske, "Hierarchy is the motive to respect rank in social groups where superiors are entitled to deference and respect but must also lead, guide, direct, and protect subordinates."

To become part of a hierarchy can happen through voluntary consent or coercion. I'm not against hierarchies, I'm against forcing anyone into a hierarchy without consent. I prefer that people have the right to be left alone and not be made the means for some other person's or group's end.

I think this was perfectly articulated by Michail Bakunin in God and the State (1882):



Does it follow that I reject all authority? Far from me such a thought. In the matter of boots, I refer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals or railroads, I consult that of the architect or engineer. For such or such special knowledge, I apply to such or such a savant. But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the savant to impose his authority upon me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism censure. I do not content myself with consulting authority in any special branch; I consult several; I compare their opinions and choose that which seems to me the soundest. But I recognize no infallible authority, even in special questions; consequently, whatever respect I may have for the honesty and the sincerity of such or such an individual, I have no absolute faith in any person. Such a faith would be fatal to my reason, to my liberty and even to the success of my undertakings; it would immediately transform me into a stupid slave, an instrument of the will and interests of others.

If I bow before the authority of the specialists and avow my readiness to follow—to a certain extent and as long as may seem to me necessary—their indications and even their directions, it is because their authority is imposed upon me by no one […]. Otherwise I would repel them with horror and bid the devil take their counsels, their directions and their services, certain that they would make me pay, by the loss of my liberty and self-respect, for such scraps of truth, wrapped in a multitude of lies, as they might give me.

I bow before the authority of special men, because it is imposed upon me by my own reason. I am conscious of my inability to grasp, in all its details and positive developments, any very large portion of human knowledge. The greatest intelligence would not be equal to a comprehension of the whole. Thence results, for science as well as for industry, the necessity of the division and association of labor. I receive and I give—such is human life. Each directs and is directed in his turn. Therefore there is no fixed and constant authority, but a continual exchange of mutual, temporary and, above all, voluntary authority and subordination.

I don't want chaos either. I want order. I just don't want it to be legal for anyone to impose their order by force, or to initiate coercive force against anyone in any way.


So I think we both agree that heirarchies (I hope this dialogue ends soon, because I'm getting sick of struggling to spell the word "hierarchies":)) are necessary and useful but can tilt towards corruption. But the issue for you is forced participation/subordination. I get it.

Some part of me is very sympathetic to what you're saying here. It appeals to the side of me that desires complete and total freedom. But even as I write this, another voice is reminding me that complete and total freedom (on planet earth I mean...not some utopian spiritual dream) means chaos.

On the one hand I love the idea of a world where no person or government can impose order by force. I really do. I'm tempted to raise a fist in the air and salute this type of statement! It has that kind of positive emotional valence to it. If you declared it from a podium, in front of a large crowd, it would draw raucous applause. But it's just not realistic. I mean, I could offer a million reasons why, but here in America now we have violent rioting in California; do you think riots should be allowed to thrive unimpeded? Are you against a legal authority (government) imposing order there by force? That's just one example among dozens why we need some version of a fixed, constant authority.

I think we are born into forced participation/subordination, and there's no avoiding it. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Life is inherently a game of trade-offs and lesser of the evil scenarios. Government also provides free healthcare in some places, education, military and local law enforcement protection, regulation and protection in industry, social benefits for those in need, not to mention all the infrastructure around you. Would you be prepared to forfeit all that if a deal was offered to you, allowing you total sovereignty? You might say yes, and you might be that rare individual who could live in the woods and sustain on squirrel meat and sleep in lean to's, but most people aren't. Most people prefer civilized society, and a civilized society cannot exist without law and order, and law and order cannot exist without some kind of fixed authority. I wish I was wrong! If I am, show me the societies that thrive under your model and I'll happily update my thinking.

[christian]

[H]ere in America now we have violent rioting in California; do you think riots should be allowed to thrive unimpeded? Are you against a legal authority (government) imposing order there by force? That's just one example among dozens why we need some version of a fixed, constant authority.

As soon as someone violates the property rights of others, I would volunteer to pay for someone to go and stop this. See how this can be stopped? By a police force that's financed by voluntary contributions instead of forced taxation. No problem at all.


I think we are born into forced participation/subordination, and there's no avoiding it. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Life is inherently a game of trade-offs and lesser of the evil scenarios..

It's all in the mind. I can step out of it in my mind and align my actions to what I have in my mind. Then it's up to me how many battles I wanna fight. During the lockdown era, I did avoid participation and subordination to some degree. How far you're willing to go is an individual decision you make in every moment, considering, of course, the potential consequences.


Government also provides free healthcare in some places, education, military and local law enforcement protection, regulation and protection in industry, social benefits for those in need, not to mention all the infrastructure around you. Would you be prepared to forfeit all that if a deal was offered to you, allowing you total sovereignty?

Taxpayer-funded doesn't equal free. I would gladly forfeit taxpayer-funded services, so that people could instead choose for themselves what they want to pay for in terms of healthcare, education, military, etc. I think overall people would invest their money much more wisely than government does.


Most people prefer civilized society, and a civilized society cannot exist without law and order, and law and order cannot exist without some kind of fixed authority.

Fixed doesn't have to mean coercive. I'd happily finance non-governmental police, courts, etc. I think almost everyone would, cause everyone wants these things. I just don't want them monopolized, taking my money by force and suppressing or not allowing competition.


I wish I was wrong! If I am, show me the societies that thrive under your model and I'll happily update my thinking.

As you know, every person on Earth lives under the authority of some government. Governments don't allow competition. The model doesn't exist. The best we have are decentralized networks outside the reach of government control.

In any case, think of how a child is born into a ritual abuse network. The network tells the child that it couldn't survive without the network. The child cannot imagine life outside the network. Until it can. Some escape. For all who escape, it begins with believing that they can. Humanity is at that point with governments. We're born into this matrix of ritual abuse. But it's entirely possible to live without this matrix. In fact, it would greatly increase peace, law, and order. It begins in the mind.

[onawah]

Interviewer: Mr. Gandhi, what do you think about Western civilization?
Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.
—Quoted by Luigi Barzini

[Mike]

[H]ere in America now we have violent rioting in California; do you think riots should be allowed to thrive unimpeded? Are you against a legal authority (government) imposing order there by force? That's just one example among dozens why we need some version of a fixed, constant authority.

As soon as someone violates the property rights of others, I would volunteer to pay for someone to go and stop this. See how this can be stopped? By a police force that's financed by voluntary contributions instead of forced taxation. No problem at all.


I think we are born into forced participation/subordination, and there's no avoiding it. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Life is inherently a game of trade-offs and lesser of the evil scenarios..

It's all in the mind. I can step out of it in my mind and align my actions to what I have in my mind. Then it's up to me how many battles I wanna fight. During the lockdown era, I did avoid participation and subordination to some degree. How far you're willing to go is an individual decision you make in every moment, considering, of course, the potential consequences.


Government also provides free healthcare in some places, education, military and local law enforcement protection, regulation and protection in industry, social benefits for those in need, not to mention all the infrastructure around you. Would you be prepared to forfeit all that if a deal was offered to you, allowing you total sovereignty?

Taxpayer-funded doesn't equal free. I would gladly forfeit taxpayer-funded services, so that people could instead choose for themselves what they want to pay for in terms of healthcare, education, military, etc. I think overall people would invest their money much more wisely than government does.


Most people prefer civilized society, and a civilized society cannot exist without law and order, and law and order cannot exist without some kind of fixed authority.

Fixed doesn't have to mean coercive. I'd happily finance non-governmental police, courts, etc. I think almost everyone would, cause everyone wants these things. I just don't want them monopolized, taking my money by force and suppressing or not allowing competition.


I wish I was wrong! If I am, show me the societies that thrive under your model and I'll happily update my thinking.

As you know, every person on Earth lives under the authority of some government. Governments don't allow competition. The model doesn't exist. The best we have are decentralized networks outside the reach of government control.

In any case, think of how a child is born into a ritual abuse network. The network tells the child that it couldn't survive without the network. The child cannot imagine life outside the network. Until it can. Some escape. For all who escape, it begins with believing that they can. Humanity is at that point with governments. We're born into this matrix of ritual abuse. But it's entirely possible to live without this matrix. In fact, it would greatly increase peace, law, and order. It begins in the mind.


Yes, every person on earth lives under the authority of some form of government, but that's because over time we've learned that - while certainly not perfect - governments work:). And by work I mean they adequately provide order and protection for citizens that otherwise wouldn't have it. Surely someone will arrive here and list all the past and current corrupt governments, but it won't change the fact that some form of government is required for a cohesive, ordered society. To swear off government because some bad ones have existed is like swearing off food because you've had a bad meal. I fully support the idea of a more decentralized government; that's almost always a good thing! But it's still a government.

If everyone were like you and the world were full of Chris clones, your model might work. And I mean that; you sound very sincere. But here's the thing: I have great doubts that anyone not named Chris would be lining up to volunteer for this hypothetical police force that the citizens of your hypothetical utopia would be hypothetically volunteering to pay. Ditto a military and fire department. And who would regulate industry? Who would maintain infrastructure? Who would you call when natural disasters struck? An all volunteer crew, assembling willy-nilly, operating out of the goodness of their hearts for a salary that may or may not be adequate depending upon who decided to donate that day?

The issue I have with all this, aside from it's eerie resemblance to communism, is it's all rooted in the belief that everyone is going to act nobly and honorably at all times. That's not the world we live in brother.. whether we exist in big, bloated countries or smaller decentralized networks.

[SilentFeathers]

I would bet even thousands of years ago even a small clan or tribe of hairy hunter gatherers had some form of group structure with a leader who made the final decisions or that the others looked up to and trusted. Probably the dude with the biggest club!

Even back then one of the clan occasionally broke the rules and were punished, some may of even been banished from the group and left for the saber tooth tiger to eat.

It's in our nature from the beginning of time for us to have some form of structured communities/societies with rules and punishments.

[christian]

[O]ver time we've learned that - while certainly not perfect - governments work:). And by work I mean they adequately provide order and protection for citizens that otherwise wouldn't have it. […] [S]ome form of government is required for a cohesive, ordered society.

History teaches me that societies without government were more prosperous and peaceful. We can see this up to medieval times. Cospaia (https://libertarianeurope.com/history/the-anarchist-republic-of-cospaia/) in present-day Italy is one example. You could say it was a small community, which certainly simplified a lot of things, but it also worked well in Iceland (https://mises.org/mises-daily/medieval-iceland-and-absence-government) and Ireland (https://mises.org/mises-daily/private-law-emerald-isle) until some people wanted more control over the people and, for this purpose, reintroduced government.


The issue I have with all this, aside from it's eerie resemblance to communism, is it's all rooted in the belief that everyone is going to act nobly and honorably at all times.

I don't believe this for a second. I believe people act on their own impulses. And even though they may to some degree be influenced by others, I think that's still way better than having a government, which is always acting in someone else's interests and forcing people to act in someone else's interests, always in favor of some privileged minority.

Communism says everyone works according to their ability and takes according to their needs. I say, people work according to their ability, their interests, and their needs, and everyone takes only what is exchanged in a consensual transaction.


I have great doubts that anyone not named Chris would be lining up to volunteer for this hypothetical police force that the citizens of your hypothetical utopia would be hypothetically volunteering to pay. Ditto a military and fire department. And who would regulate industry? Who would maintain infrastructure? Who would you call when natural disasters struck? An all volunteer crew, assembling willy-nilly, operating out of the goodness of their hearts for a salary that may or may not be adequate depending upon who decided to donate that day?

The first thing everyone is concerned about when someone says "no government" is security. At the same time, everyone seems to think that no one would be willing to pay for security. I find this funny. People spend money on their priorities. Personal safety is a high priority for virtually everyone. I have no doubt people will always be willing to spend money on that.

Don't think of voluntary payments as willy-nilly donations when someone shows up with cookies at your doorstep, but regular agreed-upon payments in exchange for a written contract with a professional security service provider. I have no doubt that people want to invest in efficient security, i.e., the protection of their person, property, and (greater) community. They would not, however, invest in security agencies that harass or attack people, whether at home or abroad, not least because it would make them the target of everyone else who simply wants to live safely and not be attacked and is willing to pay for that. Therefore, security providers would become almost infinitely cheaper and more efficient without government.

Without government, all sectors of the economy are regulated directly or indirectly by the people, by the organic interplay of all of their individual and common decisions and agreements. They decide who to finance, and what types of certifications or regulations they demand or prefer in any sector of the economy. Instead of having one monopolistic government agency to regulate and certify industries, people would have to compete to offer regulations, oversight, and control that actually make sense for the people, whereas now we're forced by the government to pay for regulators that work for special interests. Special interests always use monopolistic government force to regulate industries on their behalf, because the government gives them leverage to enforce decisions for other people's lives and property. This wouldn't be the case without government. No one could force anyone to spend their money on something they don't want.

[Raskolnikov]

Thanks guys. You both make excellent arguments. Listening to you both reminds me of the great dialogues between the eminent philosophers of ancient Greece. And it’s on one of the same topics, the state. In the relentless pursuit of truth, I fall more into Christian’s camp and abhor all but the faintest whiff of a government and believe we all derive our rights from the Creator and that the sole reason for even the most limited form is only to protect these rights. George Washington, himself, said in a speech on January 7, 1790: "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."

I agree with you Mike when you said, “If everyone were like you and the world were full of Chris clones, your model might work.” Reminds me of a great quote from Diderot:

“There are no laws for a wise man . . . Every law has its exceptions, and it takes wisdom to decide which cases come under the rule and which are to be dealt with as exceptions.
Reply: I wouldn’t be too sorry if there were one or two fellows like you in town; but if everybody thought as you do, I’d move somewhere else!”

I’d like to think that someday these rare exceptions will be the rule and we’ll reach that critical mass. I tend to think, even though not substantiated in the records we’re allowed to see currently, that previous civilizations achieved this and lived in harmony. The magnificent “Roman” structures found all over the world allude to such a society, a society where people had the time and freedom to build even massive structures both following sacred geometry and employing the most inspiring attention to detail throughout. Something tells me these people weren't a 9 to 5, heavily taxed society that could barely make ends meet but maintained their freedom somehow and had ample time to create.

But getting off topic. Enjoying the thoughtful dialogue on the serious topic. I won’t go into all my complaints about the current government here in America as this is more of a hypothetical, theoretical, philosophical discussion about government in gereral, but I do see a striking similarity between a government which enforces a poison shot and one that forces Socrates to drink Hemlock. Interesting that the written record for the western world begins about that time. But enough of my random thoughts, back to the discussion...

[Mike]

[O]ver time we've learned that - while certainly not perfect - governments work:). And by work I mean they adequately provide order and protection for citizens that otherwise wouldn't have it. […] [S]ome form of government is required for a cohesive, ordered society.

History teaches me that societies without government were more prosperous and peaceful. We can see this up to medieval times. Cospaia (https://libertarianeurope.com/history/the-anarchist-republic-of-cospaia/) in present-day Italy is one example. You could say it was a small community, which certainly simplified a lot of things, but it also worked well in Iceland (https://mises.org/mises-daily/medieval-iceland-and-absence-government) and Ireland (https://mises.org/mises-daily/private-law-emerald-isle) until some people wanted more control over the people and, for this purpose, reintroduced government.


The issue I have with all this, aside from it's eerie resemblance to communism, is it's all rooted in the belief that everyone is going to act nobly and honorably at all times.

I don't believe this for a second. I believe people act on their own impulses. And even though they may to some degree be influenced by others, I think that's still way better than having a government, which is always acting in someone else's interests and forcing people to act in someone else's interests, always in favor of some privileged minority.

Communism says everyone works according to their ability and takes according to their needs. I say, people work according to their ability, their interests, and their needs, and everyone takes only what is exchanged in a consensual transaction.


I have great doubts that anyone not named Chris would be lining up to volunteer for this hypothetical police force that the citizens of your hypothetical utopia would be hypothetically volunteering to pay. Ditto a military and fire department. And who would regulate industry? Who would maintain infrastructure? Who would you call when natural disasters struck? An all volunteer crew, assembling willy-nilly, operating out of the goodness of their hearts for a salary that may or may not be adequate depending upon who decided to donate that day?

The first thing everyone is concerned about when someone says "no government" is security. At the same time, everyone seems to think that no one would be willing to pay for security. I find this funny. People spend money on their priorities. Personal safety is a high priority for virtually everyone. I have no doubt people will always be willing to spend money on that.

Don't think of voluntary payments as willy-nilly donations when someone shows up with cookies at your doorstep, but regular agreed-upon payments in exchange for a written contract with a professional security service provider. I have no doubt that people want to invest in efficient security, i.e., the protection of their person, property, and (greater) community. They would not, however, invest in security agencies that harass or attack people, whether at home or abroad, not least because it would make them the target of everyone else who simply wants to live safely and not be attacked and is willing to pay for that. Therefore, security providers would become almost infinitely cheaper and more efficient without government.

Without government, all sectors of the economy are regulated directly or indirectly by the people, by the organic interplay of all of their individual and common decisions and agreements. They decide who to finance, and what types of certifications or regulations they demand or prefer in any sector of the economy. Instead of having one monopolistic government agency to regulate and certify industries, people would have to compete to offer regulations, oversight, and control that actually make sense for the people, whereas now we're forced by the government to pay for regulators that work for special interests. Special interests always use monopolistic government force to regulate industries on their behalf, because the government gives them leverage to enforce decisions for other people's lives and property. This wouldn't be the case without government. No one could force anyone to spend their money on something they don't want.



I think what you're describing could possibly work in very, very small communities (maybe, for a time). And if that's the whole idea, fair enough. I can envision something like this, kinda rustic and rural, centered around some very basic agriculture, among a group of earthy spartan types perhaps.

How big are these communities you're imagining, roughly? I suppose I should have asked you this first, because maybe I actually agree with you (sort of).

But the bigger something becomes, the more necessary it becomes to implement an organizing structure (government). I think what you're describing, were it applied to something even like a small American town, would still require some kind of centralized hub, otherwise there'd be no coordination between various groups and entities that require coordination to be effective and useful. That's kind of what government is really - the web connecting necessary services.

You described a system where people volunteer to finance these things (police, fire department, military, emergency services etc), but what happens when some people stop volunteering their $? Because they will, ya know. Will you force them to pay? And if not, how will you proceed? I think you began this dialogue by saying the goal was to create a community where no person or government can impose order by force. All that happens when you exchange government for private contractors is you switch up the group of people who will eventually have to impose order by force. The 'professional security provider' you speak of is there for that very reason, no?

Will there be one security provider for the entire community? Several? What happens if they clash? What will you do? Hire another security provider to clean up the mess? Without the appropriate hierarchal structures in place you will be confronted with this type of chaos. If everyone has their own special security force, you're gonna wind up with a bunch of mini militias running around, competing for power eventually. If you only have one security provider, you're gonna have something like, well, government.

What if your community is attacked by an outside force? Will you have a private military too? Without any kind of unifying hierarchy (government) who will organize such a massive endeavor? And without any authority compelling its citizens to pay taxes, how can you be sure there'll be adequate funds to train and motivate soldiers? Paying a private security entity is one thing, but a military is another matter altogether. Everyone would have to pitch in, and you would have no choice but to force order upon the uncooperative citizens who refused.

The only way to stop agents of chaos is to impose order..and there will be agents of chaos in any community, no matter how big or small; they've existed since the beginning of time and aren't going anywhere. And it's not just agents of chaos or bad people per se, it's everyday people who engage in mild to moderate law breaking like speeding, stealing, harassment, and so forth. Will you have any laws in your community? If so, how will you arrive at them? Who will decide what they are exactly? How will you deal with chronic law breakers, both petty and serious? Will you impose order or just hope things get better?

The problem with "organic interplay" is that it can all organically go to sh!t too without any kind of unifying structure (order). And those corruptible regulators and special interests you mention will exist in your model too, just a little more passive-aggressively perhaps. How will you deal with them if they keep insisting on non-cooperation?

[Michel Leclerc]

Christian, I understand and accept more or less what you are saying.

The “more or less” is related to the fact that I think we must read the creation of Brics as a line of defense against the scorched earth policy of the dying Empire and its rule-based order; scorched earth policy which I myself (and but a few others in my country of birth) understood as from the onset of the 90s when Japan and its superior industry were ruined.

Alas, alas: near the end of the 90s I was too concentrated on saving my soul to have the time to understand what was happening in Yugoslavia: the local “US proxy” role of Germany (Genscher!), the financial/economic reasons behind it, and most of all: how my and others’ love for Sufism was being misused to suspect Milosevic (who had to to die in prison before he was finally cleared of all accusations) and dismiss Serbia’s stance (and be sceptical about the stance taken by Peter Handke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Handke), whom I, as a poet and writer, should have listened to).

But the early 90s’ insight was strong enough to immediately fathom what was happening in September 2001, to be informed of the Project for the New American Century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century) and understand how Iraq was being destroyed, and to be behind the BRussells Tribunal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRussells_Tribunal)(how falsely the Wikipedia article narrows its scope and the role it played!). (And it was only thanks to the friendship with a Serbian trainee/coachee of mine that I finally understood the Yugoslavian tragedy – and the common sin upon every European’s shoulders for it – when she confronted me with the depleted uranium victims among the Serbian newborns.. disfigured children which I was at the same time seeing the photographs of from the Iraqi “battlefields” or rather “nature park wide concentration camps” (as Gaza is now).

(It is of no use “spinning” our sins. Fleeing to look the other way while busy “saving our souls” (as I wrote above), however primary may be its importance. Our duty to understand, as an intellectual, truth – coincides with our pledge to feel the other’s anguish and sorrow – and with our need to caress the beauty of the body. It is one thing – and that is why an artist’s, a musician’s, a dancer’s, a poet’s creativity can only be sane when they come together.)

Allow me, Christian, to reciprocate with a tentative line of criticism – which I guess you will accept. When you write “I know people from Syria and Venezuela who hate Putin for supporting tyrannical governments in these countries”, you are implying that my maybe grandiloquent referring to people from various continents looking up to the Russian president is basically anecdotal. You are right in that.

But then, can we do otherwise? Would you agree with my poor provisional conclusion – that we only have two sources that irrigate our humanity: the first: the “evidence of writ” – SCRIPTA MANET – the Project for the New American Century can not be unwritten, it is there and it has been endorsed by other texts, and the second but not the least: the words that people we know and believe have confided to us in their full humanity, that chimes with ours... anecdote for anecdote..

?

[Merkaba360]

We lived for many a millenia in igloos, teepees, huts, etc eating squirrel meat and everything else that moved., not philosophizing next to the camp fire telling tall tales and legends. I'm pretty sure we had enough of that and crave something new that actually changes more rapidly. Welcome to the aquarian age that rules tech yay !

I could have a decent life living a few decades as survivor, but the problem is that all the lovely ladies want convenience and the easy life. So they are running toward big city lights. :) Not to mention the older i get i dont really want to not have health insurance and state of the art hospitals. Two major reasons I've not run for the hills.

The squirrel meat never changes, but here in the big city we get another 27 flavors of potato chips and beer every few years. We crave that diversity and faster change much like life in the astral realm.

The greek philosophy debates on politics can be interesting, but I see the real potential for upgrades and stepping closer toward freedom and utopia coming from a consciousness upgrade and rapid tech advancement. Both are changing faster than ever and will plow right over these stupid government officials desires in many ways.

We desperately need a perception upgrade. I dont care if it comes suddenly to 100s of millions from reaching critical mass, or AI decoding the brain and peeling back some filters. Even if its the usual slow evolution, that has accelerated so much, i imagine 20 years from now will change our perception as much as the last 50-100 years.

Being able to better feels each others energy and intentions and lies would be huge. Wouldnt that create a separation into light and dark camps. If we can't rid this planet of dark forces, we could at least see who they are and force them to herd together in their corner of the world.

Hopefully there is a curveball coming that nobody sees and causes a big problem for the dark side decreasing their stranglehold.

Heirarchies really annoy me. Especially because all the bad actors are driven to be on top. People with insecurities that want to cover them up with power. We dont get rid of heirarchies as someone mentioned, but somehow we must evolved them more into holoarchies. And I see tech or expansion of consciousness as being the solution. Either we start perceiving our interconnectedness more as more evolve to the yellow stage of integration in spiral dynamics or the internet empowers the little people so that the bottom of the pyramid has more weight overall.

I really value privacy, but i feel that is an illusion in the end. High evolved loving beings are aware of all the ridiculous things ive done in private lol. Perhaps it will be uncomfortable but our privacy might have to dissolve more to bring more to the light and improve this mess. If the deep state (bad guys) have access to all of our data already then would it be so bad for AI to have access as well and bring more to light. Like being able to read every text message and email and watch every cctv camera. It could easily identify millions with mental illness, dark intentions, psychos, abusers, etc so we could keep them in check more. I get some of this is worrisome for the technocracy. But i feel some of what we fear in this regard will happen anyway and could turn out better then expected. And some will need to be stopped. Like billions of military drones everywhere. ugh.

[christian]

Mike, I think you're good at asking questions. You demonstrate creative thinking when brainstorming challenges that could arise without government. I believe you could greatly surprise yourself if you applied your creative thinking to think more of solutions.


How big are these communities you're imagining, roughly?

Everything is possible. Communities start from two people and can be as big as the whole of humanity. It all depends on what people want to be a part of. If the whole world wants to use Bitcoin, you have a global community. You can be part of different communities at the same time. Some of them may be huge, others may be small, depending on what issue the community is concerned with and how many people want to be part of it.


But the bigger something becomes, the more necessary it becomes to implement an organizing structure (government). I think what you're describing, were it applied to something even like a small American town, would still require some kind of centralized hub, otherwise there'd be no coordination between various groups and entities that require coordination to be effective and useful. That's kind of what government is really - the web connecting necessary services.

I don't understand why an organizing structure would automatically imply government. Not every organizing structure is a government. There is coordination and connection of services outside of monopolized coercion. You can also have centralization without government. Uber is centralized, but it's not forcing anyone to participate.


You described a system where people volunteer to finance these things (police, fire department, military, emergency services etc), but what happens when some people stop volunteering their $? Because they will, ya know.

Why would people stop paying for a service they need and appreciate? It's like saying people have a gym membership they love, but someday they will just quit. Why? They love their Netflix subscription, but someday they will just cancel it. Why? They have an insurance that works great for them, but someday they will just terminate the contract. Why? I don't understand how you come to this conclusion. I think people will only cancel a service if they find something better or if they have no need or interest anymore.

I don't think people's need for safety will just disappear. Therefore, police, fire departments, military, emergency services, etc, will always be in demand. And even if it should happen that everything is so great and peaceful that people say we don't need emergency service providers anymore, first of all, this level of peace and harmony would be amazing. Secondly, if then problems would arise because of people's disinterest in having security providers, people would again feel a need for these services, they would demand them again. This is how all of this is regulated organically in a decentralized way without coercion.


All that happens when you exchange government for private contractors is you switch up the group of people who will eventually have to impose order by force. The 'professional security provider' you speak of is there for that very reason, no?

I don't want to exchange government for anything; I want to abolish it. Governments initiate coercion. Security providers without the government's monopoly on the use of force may not do that. Without government, order is imposed by defending people against those who initiate coercion or violate the agreed-upon rules of a community.


Will there be one security provider for the entire community? Several? What happens if they clash? What will you do? Hire another security provider to clean up the mess? Without the appropriate hierarchal structures in place you will be confronted with this type of chaos. If everyone has their own special security force, you're gonna wind up with a bunch of mini militias running around, competing for power eventually.

I find this funny. You're describing a problem that exists right now. We have several security providers for the human community, and they clash all the time. It's a mess. It's a bunch of militias competing for power. And people are forced to finance this madness. What you describe as a potential danger for a world without governments is the present reality for a world ruled by governments.

Without government, the precise landscape of the security industry depends on what people are willing to pay for. I would definitely want the security provider(s) of my choice not to attack other security providers, but rather cooperate with other security providers if helpful and necessary.


What if your community is attacked by an outside force? Will you have a private military too? Without any kind of unifying hierarchy (government) who will organize such a massive endeavor? And without any authority compelling its citizens to pay taxes, how can you be sure there'll be adequate funds to train and motivate soldiers?

I'm willing to pay for a military to protect myself and my community against outside military threats. The size of militaries in a world without government depends on people's prioritization of their need for military protection; that's how the size of military forces would be regulated.


Will you have any laws in your community? If so, how will you arrive at them? Who will decide what they are exactly? How will you deal with chronic law breakers, both petty and serious? Will you impose order or just hope things get better?

The fundamental law without government is that no one may initiate coercive force against anyone or their property. Everything else is up to the people, what they want for themselves and what communities they want to join.

Of course, from here you can ask a lot more questions about how to deal with all kinds of particular issues, but I would like to end this conversation at this point. Not because it's not interesting, quite the opposite, but because I'm working on a book in which I discuss these and other questions. In that regard, I appreciate the dialogue with you because it helps me refine my work.

Meanwhile, I would encourage you to spend more time thinking of solutions. Because only thinking of problems and resorting to government force as the solution won't cut it, I believe.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I think we must read the creation of Brics as a line of defense against the scorched earth policy of the dying Empire and its rule-based order […].

I understand you see it that way, and many others do too. In my eyes, they're all evil empires competing for power. I wouldn't embrace Stalin as a defense against Hitler. I want to defend myself and others against all flavors of totalitarianism, whether it's the Western bloc or BRICS.

[Mike]

Chris, just to summarize...

In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that whether you have government or not, whether you have one unified community or 1000 decentralized ones, someone somewhere (an authority of some sort, whether private or public) is always going to have to impose order by force in some situations..whether the agents of chaos come from within the community or outside of it. It's unavoidable.

And that's because human beings are often impulsive, unpredictable, anarchic, irrational, bitter, resentful, and jealous.. even in what appears to be a sort of utopian situation. Even in your model, people will still be scheming and cheating and seeking power over others. Maybe there would be less of these things, but it would still exist.

Good luck with the book! Let me know when it's available.. I'll be first in line to buy it:thumbsup:

[David Trd1]

I think what does characterize the Avalon community is its profound awareness and care for the serious problems

This is the most profound element of this forum and makes it entirely unique.

The quality of discourse and members here is second to none and its been carefully built in this manner. Love it.

[christian]

[W]hether you have government or not, whether you have one unified community or 1000 decentralized ones, someone somewhere (an authority of some sort, whether private or public) is always going to have to impose order by force in some situations..whether the agents of chaos come from within the community or outside of it. It's unavoidable.

I agree 100%. When I'm not writing, I'm actually in this very business of imposing order by force in my job as a nightclub bouncer. I'm not a government as I'm not financed by taxes, but voluntary contributions from my employer, and I don't initiate force. I merely observe that people obey the rules of my place of work, and I intervene if they don't. Like chopping wood, it's a satisfying job because I see the results immediately. When the party is over and people have had a good time and I stopped people with a bad attitude from disturbing the peace, it was a good day. I probably wouldn't do the job (as often) if I didn't need the money, but I do appreciate it not just for the money, but for the work itself. It's a good change from sitting at the laptop for years on end, and it gives me plenty of opportunities to practice what I preach, to protect the peace without initiating violence.


And that's because human beings are often impulsive, unpredictable, anarchic, irrational, bitter, resentful, and jealous.. even in what appears to be a sort of utopian situation. […] Maybe there would be less of these things, but it would still exist.

I also think it's impossible to fully eliminate destructive tendencies in humans. The best possible scenario is to minimize these tendencies and their effects. I want to support healing and protection by treating people with empathy and respect, and by stepping in when someone initiates violence or breaks the rules of a community.


Even in your model, people will still be scheming and cheating and seeking power over others.

From what I can see, the most effective way to gain power over others is through a legal monopoly on the use of force, i.e., government. There is no totalitarianism without government. In my eyes, finding ways to support others, protect peace, and establish a harmonic order without the initiation of coercion, i.e., without government, is a key challenge for humanity to make it to the next level. That's what I'm working on. I'll keep you updated :)

[Merkaba360]

I don't see how it would work to abolish big gov't. It doesn't abolish secret societies, break away civilizations, Apple, Tesla, etc. Smaller local communities defending their region might work well locally. But then who is going to deal with Tesla and their AI embedded in robots pouring out of factories. No small community and its militia has the power or authority to deal with that. Tesla/Space X would also create its own sovereign community in Texas and live under its own local rules and system. But it would advance in power way faster than our wholesome communities without a sea of engineers.

The secret societies or deep military groups already have Nukes, exotic secret weapons and anti gravity devices. It would be like declaring that we are all gonna form small decentralized communities across the planet and tell them they must not bother us. lol Yea right. I could argue that its better to keep huge populations and be a part of that monster, that way they have the increasingly more impossible task of mind controlling gigantic herds like the 350 million US population.

As much as id like many many smaller sovereign states, thats also easier targets , aka divide and conquer.

The answer is more like exposing the insane racket these huge gov'ts are running - which is starting to happen. That way the population stands up to enforce new methods to put an end to those rackets.

Just like AI is getting better than doctors at diagnosing disease, we need it to get better at diagnosing disease within the gov'ts than corrupt politicians. As well as discerning truth better than scientists, so its not so easy to put all their evil scientists on TV pretending to be scientific authority.

We are headed to the stars, so the massive organizations are likely needed and not going anywhere. ET disclosure could also one day change the game. I bet they have great advice on how to run huge organizations with limited corruption and making it run better for the whole.

Although I do think in america for example, the fed is going to lose power and the states and counties will gain more. So, in a way that is a step toward the smaller communities self governing with greater freedom to deal with their local problems. The Fed still must exist to deal with civil war, nukes, and all the massive problems.

[Mike]

I'll keep you updated :)

Cool, good luck with it! Appreciate the dialogue:handshake:

[Raskolnikov]

There is no totalitarianism without government. In my eyes, finding ways to support others, protect peace, and establish a harmonic order without the initiation of coercion, i.e., without government, is a key challenge for humanity to make it to the next level. That's what I'm working on. I'll keep you updated :)

I’ve often thought the same thing. Which brings us back to the evolution of the individual. Maybe this society without government is really only attainable when each one of us first attains this self-mastery and cohesion from within. Which seems to coincide with your take Merkaba360:


The greek philosophy debates on politics can be interesting, but I see the real potential for upgrades and stepping closer toward freedom and utopia coming from a consciousness upgrade and rapid tech advancement. Both are changing faster than ever and will plow right over these stupid government officials desires in many ways.

We desperately need a perception upgrade. I dont care if it comes suddenly to 100s of millions from reaching critical mass, or AI decoding the brain and peeling back some filters.

I’m all on board for the consciousness upgrade but you place much more faith in AI than I do at this point, this point being while some nefarious group still has it’s bloody talons in the majority of governments around the world. I picture this upgrade manifesting more like a 100th monkey effect, soon we’ll all be soaking our sweet potatoes. But one thing’s for sure, here in the states, the people were willing to die and/or go to prison fighting both taxes and licenses, the first because the people never consented to give such power and authority to government, and the second because it was viewed as the government taking your rights and then selling them back to you. Safety’s all fine and good, but look where we are now when selling raw milk or practicing medicine with an expired license will land you in jail. That’s an extent of control never intended, and never agreed to, by the people. And yet it’s been so crammed through, the opposition so repeatedly squashed by our crooked courts, that most today have absolutely no idea that this is even the case. The youth today has the memory of a goldfish, they’re not going to remember what happened last week let alone 100 years ago. So new generations accept outrageous taxes and exorbitant yearly fees to acquire the rights from government to do anything. This is the current threat from authority, their ability to play the long game. Educate three generations of kids and look where we are.

But thanks again for the thoughtful dialogue, and everyone else for the great insights as well. You’ve done an excellent job of questioning and dissecting some of the finer details. I could never stomach politics, especially after getting a crash course from the Greeks and Romans, sounds about as fun as the Old Testament, nothing but betrayal, incestuous backstabbing, and bloody sacrifice. Has anything really changed since those times? No wonder I turned to art. Which brings me to your aside Michel which I thought rather profound:


(It is of no use “spinning” our sins. Fleeing to look the other way while busy “saving our souls” (as I wrote above), however primary may be its importance. Our duty to understand, as an intellectual, truth – coincides with our pledge to feel the other’s anguish and sorrow – and with our need to caress the beauty of the body. It is one thing – and that is why an artist’s, a musician’s, a dancer’s, a poet’s creativity can only be sane when they come together.)

Though you also allude to the physical, I find the metaphysical more powerful. It hints of having empathy and being able to feel one’s true connection not only to the other but to everything, of turning Jung’s collective unconscious to a collective consciousness which we will all knowingly not only share but be unwilling, be unable, to violate. Because I’m not sure how much longer I can put up with our current forms of government which steal the people's hard earned money by calling it taxes or licenses, then use this stolen money to bomb other countries then feed it all back to the sedated masses on the tv like another episode of Neflix, brought to you by Blackrock:

“To be GOVERNED is to be kept in sight, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction, noted, registered, enrolled, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, trained, ransomed, exploited, monopolized, extorted, squeezed, mystified, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, despised, harassed, tracked, abused, clubbed, disarmed, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and, to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.” – Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, General Idea of the Revolution in the Nineteenth Century [1851]

[christian]

The Fed still must exist to deal with civil war, nukes, and all the massive problems.

"Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
—Gandalf the Grey

[Mike]

The Fed still must exist to deal with civil war, nukes, and all the massive problems.

"Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
—Gandalf the Grey

I think it's both (..if I may be so bold as to disagree with the great Gandolf:))

So what does happen if civil war breaks out in a country with no government? I think that's a pretty good question!

[Raskolnikov]

The Fed still must exist to deal with civil war, nukes, and all the massive problems.

"Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
—Gandalf the Grey

I think it's both (..if I may be so bold as to disagree with the great Gandolf:))

So what does happen if civil war breaks out in a country with no government? I think that's a pretty good question!

And yet how does a "civil" war (the irony) break out at all in a country without government? Civil is defined as: a) of or relating to citizens, b) of or relating to the state or it citizenry. And then also as: a) civilized, b) adequate in courtesy and politeness (hence the irony). So there's no such thing as a civil war without government. Which came first, war or government? It's like an onion - layers upon layers...

[Mike]

The Fed still must exist to deal with civil war, nukes, and all the massive problems.

"Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
—Gandalf the Grey

I think it's both (..if I may be so bold as to disagree with the great Gandolf:))

So what does happen if civil war breaks out in a country with no government? I think that's a pretty good question!

And yet how does a "civil" war (the irony) break out at all in a country without government? Civil is defined as: a) of or relating to citizens, b) of or relating to the state or it citizenry. And then also as: a) civilized, b) adequate in courtesy and politeness (hence the irony). So there's no such thing as a civil war without government. Which came first, war or government? It's like an onion - layers upon layers...


No, not very civil, is it? :)

When no one is holding a position of power within a country or community, it merely leaves a vacuum that will eventually need to be filled. And it's just because humans are hierarchal by nature. They've been that way for millions of years. It's how we orient ourselves, for better or worse. Civil wars would inevitably erupt in countries with no central government simply because it's just a matter of time before someone attempted to fill that power void.

A war would break out to prevent the power grab. And if the power grab was successful, more war would eventually break out to unseat the victors. Disagreements would emerge in all the chaos, and the community would become more and more fractionated as a result, just increasing the potential for more warring factions and more civil war.

While it's true that there's no chance for authoritarianism without government, there's no chance for order either, far as I can tell.

[Raskolnikov]

The Fed still must exist to deal with civil war, nukes, and all the massive problems.

"Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
—Gandalf the Grey

I think it's both (..if I may be so bold as to disagree with the great Gandolf:))

So what does happen if civil war breaks out in a country with no government? I think that's a pretty good question!

And yet how does a "civil" war (the irony) break out at all in a country without government? Civil is defined as: a) of or relating to citizens, b) of or relating to the state or it citizenry. And then also as: a) civilized, b) adequate in courtesy and politeness (hence the irony). So there's no such thing as a civil war without government. Which came first, war or government? It's like an onion - layers upon layers...


No, not very civil, is it? :)

When no one is holding a position of power within a country or community, it merely leaves a vacuum that will eventually need to be filled. And it's just because humans are hierarchal by nature. They've been that way for millions of years. It's how we orient ourselves, for better or worse. Civil wars would inevitably erupt in countries with no central government simply because it's just a matter of time before someone attempted to fill that power void.

A war would break out to prevent the power grab. And if the power grab was successful, more war would eventually break out to unseat the victors. Disagreements would emerge in all the chaos, and the community would become more and more fractionated as a result, just increasing the potential for more warring factions and more civil war.

While it's true that there's no chance for authoritarianism without government, there's no chance for order either, far as I can tell.

But I think your breakdown is making a couple illogical assumptions Mike. For one, your hierarchical theory falls back on the "survival of the fittest" line of competition that we've all been sold. Whereas I believe we're spawn from a more cooperation race that used to look at life the way the Indians did, that if it wasn't good for the next seven generations then it wasn't good for anyone. Because how could you not if you're a red blooded human being? And you know you can't back up your statement that it's "been that way for millions of years." I don't believe we spawn from war, just like I don't believe we were born meat eaters, just another lie we've been force fed, like taxes and licenses that we didn't resist enough, that the authorities and billboards eventually duped everyone into believing. Nothing but spells cast upon on unwitting, unsuspecting, and ultilmately complacent and unaware population. If we've learned anything from Bill Ryan's years of public service it's that these people are playing the long game. And the real question is always going to boil down to, as Jerry Seinfeld would always say, "Who are these people?"

[Merkaba360]

There may be no huge totalitarian beast without big gov't. But, "Madmax" or "Revolution" tv series scenarios would be pretty terrible too. It seems the most highly evolved races would be both anarchy and the ultimate social cooperation. So, when I see people debating for an anarchical society, I just don't see how we are mature enough for that yet.

I would argue that the current society is exactly suitable to that society. Didnt Buddha supposedly say something about tilting his head back and laughing as everything is perfect/appropriate how it is. yet, I would add that once that society has evolved and ready for the next stage/system, there may be a period where the old guard is able to hang on to power and keep the old outdated system in place for a bit longer when the people have already outgrown it. I think Iran is one of the best current examples of this as i know some persians and they are very bright. It could very well be very big powers are holding back Iran (I hear possibly the british/euro empire put their leaders in place) and NK populace being held back by the red dragon.

If we were overly ripe for an upgrade in gov't it would be here already. Although, maybe we are reaching that point with the acceleration of everything and are debating about what our gov't will soon morph into over the next few decades.

I dont know that i put faith into AI either, I just see incredible power and potential. My programmer friend was talking about how any of us can build our own PC AI system. If deep seek was possible with such efficiency then cant we all have AIs on our PC at home as powerful as say ChatGPT 4 in the near future. what happens when those software engineers fix the algorithms to remove the political correctness and other governors keeping AI from being honest as well as hiding certain data from us. Maybe there are already geeks with their own unfiltered AI's quietly doing things we cant do.

Couldnt 1000 geeks then join AI forces and do things we can't yet imagine. If some of the ingenious breakthrus in AI are discovered by big tech but they refuse to go public and let us have it, the knowledge is then in the collective mind of humanity. It then becomes easier for geeks not working for big tech to figure it out.

If we really are dealing with high tech ET/interdimensional A-holes, then we absolutely want the power of billions of people working together to defend earth. Exposing them or black magic humans would help a lot to bring us all together to direct our efforts at countering them. Its harder fighting the boogeyman cuz most dont believe in the boogeyman.

I think there is a decent chance that natural disasters will force us to be more community oriented and could lead toward more local power and big gov't and corps losing power. If they are so greedy and ineffective to help us during such events, people will see that they are selfish entities who we cant rely on for safety and having our needs met in all situations.

[Mike]

The Fed still must exist to deal with civil war, nukes, and all the massive problems.

"Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
—Gandalf the Grey

I think it's both (..if I may be so bold as to disagree with the great Gandolf:))

So what does happen if civil war breaks out in a country with no government? I think that's a pretty good question!

And yet how does a "civil" war (the irony) break out at all in a country without government? Civil is defined as: a) of or relating to citizens, b) of or relating to the state or it citizenry. And then also as: a) civilized, b) adequate in courtesy and politeness (hence the irony). So there's no such thing as a civil war without government. Which came first, war or government? It's like an onion - layers upon layers...


No, not very civil, is it? :)

When no one is holding a position of power within a country or community, it merely leaves a vacuum that will eventually need to be filled. And it's just because humans are hierarchal by nature. They've been that way for millions of years. It's how we orient ourselves, for better or worse. Civil wars would inevitably erupt in countries with no central government simply because it's just a matter of time before someone attempted to fill that power void.

A war would break out to prevent the power grab. And if the power grab was successful, more war would eventually break out to unseat the victors. Disagreements would emerge in all the chaos, and the community would become more and more fractionated as a result, just increasing the potential for more warring factions and more civil war.

While it's true that there's no chance for authoritarianism without government, there's no chance for order either, far as I can tell.

But I think your breakdown is making a couple illogical assumptions Mike. For one, your hierarchical theory falls back on the "survival of the fittest" line of competition that we've all been sold. Whereas I believe we're spawn from a more cooperation race that used to look at life the way the Indians did, that if it wasn't good for the next seven generations then it wasn't good for anyone. Because how could you not if you're a red blooded human being? And you know you can't back up your statement that it's "been that way for millions of years." I don't believe we spawn from war, just like I don't believe we were born meat eaters, just another lie we've been force fed, like taxes and licenses that we didn't resist enough, that the authorities and billboards eventually duped everyone into believing. Nothing but spells cast upon on unwitting, unsuspecting, and ultilmately complacent and unaware population. If we've learned anything from Bill Ryan's years of public service it's that these people are playing the long game. And the real question is always going to boil down to, as Jerry Seinfeld would always say, "Who are these people?"


Well, it's not a theory!:) Hierarchies have been around since human beings have been on the earth, which dates back millions of years. They've actually been around far longer than that. Jordan Peterson often gives the example of the lobster when discussing hierarchies, because they've been around so long (something like 400 million years). His point is that hierarchy is not a symptom of culture or capitalism, but is in fact a natural condition of the planet and many of it's inhabitants (mammals, some reptiles, and some aquatic invertebrates too). It's built into our biology. Utopians often assume hierarchy is merely an expression of power and corruption, and can be flattened out in favor of some kind of socialist paradise. But it never, ever works.

Prior to modern civilization, it was survival of the fittest for the most part. But now heirarchies typically reward the most competent among us, not the most dominant (yes, and the most cunning and corrupt in some cases too).

The Native American Indian tribes were hierarchical too btw. Hierarchy typically fosters cooperation, it doesn't discourage it. Which is the point I'm driving at here. If you simply do away with the central hierarchy of any given country or society (government) you're annihilating a whole bunch of load bearing walls. Chaos will ensue. Government serves all the purposes we can think of and all the ones we can't, and can't be done away with in favor of private industry alone for many of the reasons listed here and many more we haven't.

One can make an intellectual argument for doing away with government, and it might be convincing on paper. Socialism sounds great on paper too. Some people make the same argument about religion as well, which has been the central and unifying hierarchy for thousands of years. It sounds convincing. Surely we could do without it, yeah? But just like a country with no government, all it does is leave a void to be filled. Doing away with Christianity has left us with woke Marxists as our current gods..they've filled the void, and we've seen how disastrous that has been. But that's a whole other topic.

[gord]

Mike, christian... the government/no-government/some-where-in-between problem has been around forever and will probably never be satisfactorily solved (but we'll all keep trying anyway).

From Federalist Papers No. 51 (1788) (https://billofrightsinstitute.org/primary-sources/federalist-no-51):

If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

[Raskolnikov]

Well, it's not a theory!:) Hierarchies have been around since human beings have been on the earth, which dates back millions of years. They've actually been around far longer than that. Jordan Peterson often gives the example of the lobster when discussing hierarchies, because they've been around so long (something like 400 million years). His point is that hierarchy is not a symptom of culture or capitalism, but is in fact a natural condition of the planet and many of it's inhabitants (mammals, some reptiles, and some aquatic invertebrates too). It's built into our biology. Utopians often assume hierarchy is merely an expression of power and corruption, and can be flattened out in favor of some kind of socialist paradise. But it never, ever works.

Prior to modern civilization, it was survival of the fittest for the most part. But now heirarchies typically reward the most competent among us, not the most dominant (yes, and the most cunning and corrupt in some cases too).

The Native American Indian tribes were hierarchical too btw. Hierarchy typically fosters cooperation, it doesn't discourage it. Which is the point I'm driving at here. If you simply do away with the central hierarchy of any given country or society (government) you're annihilating a whole bunch of load bearing walls. Chaos will ensue. Government serves all the purposes we can think of and all the ones we can't, and can't be done away with in favor of private industry alone for many of the reasons listed here and many more we haven't.

One can make an intellectual argument for doing away with government, and it might be convincing on paper. Socialism sounds great on paper too. Some people make the same argument about religion as well, which has been the central and unifying hierarchy for thousands of years. It sounds convincing. Surely we could do without it, yeah? But just like a country with no government, all it does is leave a void to be filled. Doing away with Christianity has left us with woke Marxists as our current gods..they've filled the void, and we've seen how disastrous that has been. But that's a whole other topic.

I get your take on hierarchy. We all have to work together and even in a merit based society a sense of order must be established and so naturally it may appear to be a power pecking order but maybe it could simply be one’s area of expertise and his/her experience in a said field of endeavor for groupings within society. But the question remains: is government ultimately needed when groups come together? Idk, but I want to side against it for the pure fact that I want government out of my life and because of the mess they’ve created for us currently.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything here, just trying to get to the truth. I’m still not buying the survival of the fittest because if I remember right Evolution still is a theory and the missing link has never been found. Even Lucy was a fraud. There’s been so much fraud and cover-up in the fields of anthropology and archeology how can we trust anything we read on the subjects, meaning very important pieces of our history and evolution as a species are missing. Why such draconian control of the narrative? I’ve read so many books telling of discoveries in all branches of science that would completely refute the garbage they’re still force-feeding the children and Harvard professors alike.

Slightly off topic, but I feel an important piece of the puzzle to consider when discussing survival of the fittest and what’s built into our biology. We are told Darwin was right in his theory of evolution, that descending from a common ancestor, gradual genetic changes from mutations within our DNA is the cause and effect of our evolution as a species. And yet the studies by mainly Russian scientists in David Wilcock’s The Source Field Investigations uproots his theory of evolution and places it firmly back in the creation camp. Just one example: Dr. Peter Gariaev sent a green nonburning laser through salamander eggs, and then redirected the beam into frog eggs. Though these salamanders hatched from the genetic material of a frog, they lived normal lives and could breed with other salamanders to produce healthy offspring. So many amazing breakthroughs in that book. He did humanity a real service putting that into print.

So I’m not buying survival of the fittest and natural selection anymore. They’re right up there with the theory of scarcity, that everything is finite and will ultimately run out because too many humans inhabit this planet. In this model, survival of the fittest and competition make sense, you’re competing with your neighbor for survival. But it’s all been concocted. It’s all cleverly collected data as Mark Twain so aptly stated: “There are lies, damned lies and statistics.” It’s interesting that our written record only records governments that failed and has never provided a real success story, a government that was beneficial for everyone within its sphere of influence, one based upon cooperation instead of competition for diminishing resources. Maybe time to rethink everything we know about our current forms of government…

“Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries *by a government*, which we might expect in a country *without government*, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." Thomas Paine

[Mike]

Mike, christian... the government/no-government/some-where-in-between problem has been around forever and will probably never be satisfactorily solved (but we'll all keep trying anyway).

From Federalist Papers No. 51 (1788) (https://billofrightsinstitute.org/primary-sources/federalist-no-51):

If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

I like that quote alot! I'm impressed and annoyed all at once; impressed because he summed it all up in a couple sentences, and annoyed because I haven't done that yet:)

If I had to offer a pithy slogan of my own, it might go something like this: No form of government will ever be perfect, but it will be far less imperfect than any society without one.

I doubt anyone will be emblazoning their pillows with it, but it's the best I got.

The realist will arrange society in a way that accommodates reality as it really is, and the utopian will arrange society in a way that accommodates a reality they wish existed. I'm utopian in my heart to some degree - which is why I can empathize with that approach - and a realist in my head. While it's true that you cannot allow the head to infect the heart in certain matters, you can also not allow the heart to infect the head in others. Structuring society requires a sober, head-based approach. Which is why female leadership is almost always doomed to fail;)

[edina]

The people who framed the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights and debated in the Federalist paper, spent decades having conversations similar to the one here. Thanks for the mention of the Federalist Papers, gord. :)

I sometimes think to myself, why reinvent the wheel. We don't have to keep trying to redo the hard work that's already been done.

They spent tremendous thought and effort to try to come up with a way that people could govern themselves while acknowledging human reality, and built a multi-layered system of checks and balances for self-governance.

The only way that Public Sovereignty works is if people take personal responsibility for themselves and their own behavior. This was once common knowledge. I think it will become common knowledge again. And when it does, people will create a culture that supports that process.

That will be the turn around for us.

[Mike]

The people who framed the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights and debated in the Federalist paper, spent decades having conversations similar to the one here. Thanks for the mention of the Federalist Papers, gord. :)

I sometimes think to myself, why reinvent the wheel. We don't have to keep trying to redo the hard work that's already been done.

They spent tremendous thought and effort to try to come up with a way that people could govern themselves while acknowledging human reality, and built a multi-layered system of checks and balances for self-governance.

The only way that Public Sovereignty works is if people take personal responsibility for themselves and their own behavior. This was once common knowledge. I think it will become common knowledge again. And when it does, people will create a culture that supports that process.

That will be the turn around for us.

barWV7RWkq0

[Mike]

Well, it's not a theory!:) Hierarchies have been around since human beings have been on the earth, which dates back millions of years. They've actually been around far longer than that. Jordan Peterson often gives the example of the lobster when discussing hierarchies, because they've been around so long (something like 400 million years). His point is that hierarchy is not a symptom of culture or capitalism, but is in fact a natural condition of the planet and many of it's inhabitants (mammals, some reptiles, and some aquatic invertebrates too). It's built into our biology. Utopians often assume hierarchy is merely an expression of power and corruption, and can be flattened out in favor of some kind of socialist paradise. But it never, ever works.

Prior to modern civilization, it was survival of the fittest for the most part. But now heirarchies typically reward the most competent among us, not the most dominant (yes, and the most cunning and corrupt in some cases too).

The Native American Indian tribes were hierarchical too btw. Hierarchy typically fosters cooperation, it doesn't discourage it. Which is the point I'm driving at here. If you simply do away with the central hierarchy of any given country or society (government) you're annihilating a whole bunch of load bearing walls. Chaos will ensue. Government serves all the purposes we can think of and all the ones we can't, and can't be done away with in favor of private industry alone for many of the reasons listed here and many more we haven't.

One can make an intellectual argument for doing away with government, and it might be convincing on paper. Socialism sounds great on paper too. Some people make the same argument about religion as well, which has been the central and unifying hierarchy for thousands of years. It sounds convincing. Surely we could do without it, yeah? But just like a country with no government, all it does is leave a void to be filled. Doing away with Christianity has left us with woke Marxists as our current gods..they've filled the void, and we've seen how disastrous that has been. But that's a whole other topic.

I get your take on hierarchy. We all have to work together and even in a merit based society a sense of order must be established and so naturally it may appear to be a power pecking order but maybe it could simply be one’s area of expertise and his/her experience in a said field of endeavor for groupings within society. But the question remains: is government ultimately needed when groups come together? Idk, but I want to side against it for the pure fact that I want government out of my life and because of the mess they’ve created for us currently.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything here, just trying to get to the truth. I’m still not buying the survival of the fittest because if I remember right Evolution still is a theory and the missing link has never been found. Even Lucy was a fraud. There’s been so much fraud and cover-up in the fields of anthropology and archeology how can we trust anything we read on the subjects, meaning very important pieces of our history and evolution as a species are missing. Why such draconian control of the narrative? I’ve read so many books telling of discoveries in all branches of science that would completely refute the garbage they’re still force-feeding the children and Harvard professors alike.

Slightly off topic, but I feel an important piece of the puzzle to consider when discussing survival of the fittest and what’s built into our biology. We are told Darwin was right in his theory of evolution, that descending from a common ancestor, gradual genetic changes from mutations within our DNA is the cause and effect of our evolution as a species. And yet the studies by mainly Russian scientists in David Wilcock’s The Source Field Investigations uproots his theory of evolution and places it firmly back in the creation camp. Just one example: Dr. Peter Gariaev sent a green nonburning laser through salamander eggs, and then redirected the beam into frog eggs. Though these salamanders hatched from the genetic material of a frog, they lived normal lives and could breed with other salamanders to produce healthy offspring. So many amazing breakthroughs in that book. He did humanity a real service putting that into print.

So I’m not buying survival of the fittest and natural selection anymore. They’re right up there with the theory of scarcity, that everything is finite and will ultimately run out because too many humans inhabit this planet. In this model, survival of the fittest and competition make sense, you’re competing with your neighbor for survival. But it’s all been concocted. It’s all cleverly collected data as Mark Twain so aptly stated: “There are lies, damned lies and statistics.” It’s interesting that our written record only records governments that failed and has never provided a real success story, a government that was beneficial for everyone within its sphere of influence, one based upon cooperation instead of competition for diminishing resources. Maybe time to rethink everything we know about our current forms of government…

“Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries *by a government*, which we might expect in a country *without government*, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." Thomas Paine

You've said alot there:).

But before I say anything in response it might be best if you outlined exactly what you mean by a government based on cooperation instead of competition. I guess what I'm wondering is: how is what you're describing any different than communism?

[Raskolnikov]

Well, it's not a theory!:) Hierarchies have been around since human beings have been on the earth, which dates back millions of years. They've actually been around far longer than that. Jordan Peterson often gives the example of the lobster when discussing hierarchies, because they've been around so long (something like 400 million years). His point is that hierarchy is not a symptom of culture or capitalism, but is in fact a natural condition of the planet and many of it's inhabitants (mammals, some reptiles, and some aquatic invertebrates too). It's built into our biology. Utopians often assume hierarchy is merely an expression of power and corruption, and can be flattened out in favor of some kind of socialist paradise. But it never, ever works.

Prior to modern civilization, it was survival of the fittest for the most part. But now heirarchies typically reward the most competent among us, not the most dominant (yes, and the most cunning and corrupt in some cases too).

The Native American Indian tribes were hierarchical too btw. Hierarchy typically fosters cooperation, it doesn't discourage it. Which is the point I'm driving at here. If you simply do away with the central hierarchy of any given country or society (government) you're annihilating a whole bunch of load bearing walls. Chaos will ensue. Government serves all the purposes we can think of and all the ones we can't, and can't be done away with in favor of private industry alone for many of the reasons listed here and many more we haven't.

One can make an intellectual argument for doing away with government, and it might be convincing on paper. Socialism sounds great on paper too. Some people make the same argument about religion as well, which has been the central and unifying hierarchy for thousands of years. It sounds convincing. Surely we could do without it, yeah? But just like a country with no government, all it does is leave a void to be filled. Doing away with Christianity has left us with woke Marxists as our current gods..they've filled the void, and we've seen how disastrous that has been. But that's a whole other topic.

I get your take on hierarchy. We all have to work together and even in a merit based society a sense of order must be established and so naturally it may appear to be a power pecking order but maybe it could simply be one’s area of expertise and his/her experience in a said field of endeavor for groupings within society. But the question remains: is government ultimately needed when groups come together? Idk, but I want to side against it for the pure fact that I want government out of my life and because of the mess they’ve created for us currently.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything here, just trying to get to the truth. I’m still not buying the survival of the fittest because if I remember right Evolution still is a theory and the missing link has never been found. Even Lucy was a fraud. There’s been so much fraud and cover-up in the fields of anthropology and archeology how can we trust anything we read on the subjects, meaning very important pieces of our history and evolution as a species are missing. Why such draconian control of the narrative? I’ve read so many books telling of discoveries in all branches of science that would completely refute the garbage they’re still force-feeding the children and Harvard professors alike.

Slightly off topic, but I feel an important piece of the puzzle to consider when discussing survival of the fittest and what’s built into our biology. We are told Darwin was right in his theory of evolution, that descending from a common ancestor, gradual genetic changes from mutations within our DNA is the cause and effect of our evolution as a species. And yet the studies by mainly Russian scientists in David Wilcock’s The Source Field Investigations uproots his theory of evolution and places it firmly back in the creation camp. Just one example: Dr. Peter Gariaev sent a green nonburning laser through salamander eggs, and then redirected the beam into frog eggs. Though these salamanders hatched from the genetic material of a frog, they lived normal lives and could breed with other salamanders to produce healthy offspring. So many amazing breakthroughs in that book. He did humanity a real service putting that into print.

So I’m not buying survival of the fittest and natural selection anymore. They’re right up there with the theory of scarcity, that everything is finite and will ultimately run out because too many humans inhabit this planet. In this model, survival of the fittest and competition make sense, you’re competing with your neighbor for survival. But it’s all been concocted. It’s all cleverly collected data as Mark Twain so aptly stated: “There are lies, damned lies and statistics.” It’s interesting that our written record only records governments that failed and has never provided a real success story, a government that was beneficial for everyone within its sphere of influence, one based upon cooperation instead of competition for diminishing resources. Maybe time to rethink everything we know about our current forms of government…

“Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries *by a government*, which we might expect in a country *without government*, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." Thomas Paine

You've said alot there:).

But before I say anything in response it might be best if you outlined exactly what you mean by a government based on cooperation instead of competition. I guess what I'm wondering is: how is what you're describing any different than communism?

Not communism. On an esoteric level I understand that nobody really owns anything, yet on a practical level private property is an integral component of a free society.

“Every man has a property in his own person. This no body has any right to but himself. The labour of his body, and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his... The great and chief end therefore, of mens uniting into commonwealths, and putting themselves under government, is the preservation of their property.” John Locke, "A Treatise Concerning Civil Government"

It has nothing to do with the collectivism practiced in communism or socialism. And I certainly would not want the state in control of everything.

Since this thread has morphed into a hypothetical discussion of the pros and cons of government in general, I’ll say it circles back again to the evolution of the individual in order to achieve such a beneficial society where everyone truly works for the greater good, not the greater good spoken of by the forked tongued officials today:

“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.” Daniel Webster

but a real vision based on abundance and not competition stemming from scarcity. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not against competition that inspires new ideas, that’s healthy and necessary in any society. But competition based upon scarcity is unhealthy because we live an abundant world yet have been told otherwise by this created and perceived scarcity. A truly cooperative society would stem from abundance, like when we tap back into free energy systems and everyone can finally take a breath and discover their reason for being, discover the true laws of nature and use them to the highest advantage for all, no longer working dead end jobs just to survive, where the bankers who fund all sides of war are a thing of the past. Yes, maybe we all first need to be angels, god knows the goons have turned enough into angels for trying to bring such systems to light. But I think it’s coming.

[onawah]

Back in 2020, there was a thread entitled "What's the Difference Between Socialism and Communism?". I posted the following there:


Socialism is what the matriarchal cultures of old practiced, as Mariah Gimbutus has revealed through her considerable research.
(See: http://www.carnaval.com/goddess/ )
It seems very natural that a society should be based on the assurance that everyone's basic needs be met, and that that is the primary goal of a society.
Such societies were peaceful, non-competitive, cooperative and did not wage war.
Those were much simpler times, assuredly, while these times are much more complex.
But what we can come away with after acquainting ourselves with such a culture is the realization that humankind really is capable of forming such societies, even though we have been conditioned into thinking that we are inherently incapable of such peaceful co-existence, and therefore must be ruled.

Following the first page of the site about Marija Gimbutus's work is copied:
https://www.opusarchives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/gimbutas.jpg
"Marija Gimbutas (1921-1994), former Professor Emeritus of Archaeology at UCLA, contributed to what is considered to be one of the most significant academic watershed moments in women’s studies with her archeological and philosophical work on Neolithic culture and religion. A Lithuanian-American archeologist, she is best known for her research into the Neolithic and Bronze Age cultures of “Old Europe,” a term she introduced.

Old Europe referred to both the geographical area and social structures that existed before the Indo-European influence, and was based on her work on the cross-disciplines of archaeological artifacts, linguistics, ethnography and folklore that led her to posit the thesis that the European prehistoric culture was female-centered and worshiped a Mother Goddess as giver of all life. Gimbutas’ hypothosis that the Kurgan invasions brought an end to Old Europe and introduced new Indo-European languages to Europe was viewed with skepticism by many scholars in her time; in recent years her Kurgan theory was given support through advances in DNA testing.

In Gimbutas’ last book The Civilization of the Goddess, which synthesizes the work and theses of her previous books (Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe 1974/1982 and The Language of the Goddess 1989/1991), she wrote, “The primordial deity for our Paleolithic and Neolithic ancestors was female, reflecting the sovereignty of motherhood. In fact, there are no images that have been found of a Father God throughout the prehistoric record. Paleolithic and Neolithic symbols and images cluster around a self-generating Goddess and her basic functions as Giver-of-Life, Wielder-of-Death, and as Regeneratrix.” Further in Civilization of the Goddess Gimbutas outlines the symbolic understanding Old European societies had of the universe and the divine. She wrote, “The multiple categories, functions, and symbols used by prehistoric peoples to express the Great Mystery are all aspects of the unbroken unity of one deity, a Goddess who is ultimately Nature herself.” For a complete list of her publications see the Marija Gimbutas bibliography.

Her discoveries took on great symbolic importance for feminists across varied disciplines who found, in her vision of a peaceful, egalitarian, nature-revering society, a sense of hope for the future based on this foundation in the distant past. Unintended to her, Marija Gimbutas’ impact was so great that it reached beyond the scholarly community and helped fuel the women’s movement in society at large. Though scholars on methodological and ideological grounds have challenged her work, this very work fueled the initial tangible, scientific, and material support for the hypotheses that cultures existed wherein patriarchy did not rule, war and violence was not assumed as a cultural norm, and that there were, in fact, egalitarian social structures. In honor of her contribution to the mutual enrichment of cultures for universal understanding and peace, UNESCO designated Gimbutas among its milestone anniversary commemorations for 2021 in observance of her centenary year.

The Marija Gimbutas papers are held at OPUS Archives on Pacifica Graduate Institute’s Ladera Lane campus. Gimbutas’ personal library is also held by OPUS in The Joseph Campbell and Marija Gimbutas Library, located at the Lambert Road campus. The Campbell and Gimbutas Library is open to the public by appointment, or without appointment Sundays from 2:00-4:00pm."

*******************
There seems to be one vital omission of discussion in this current thread "Bill Ryan's Mission and His Lunchbox" etc., which is: how are cultures different when the Divine Feminine is in the ascendant; when cooperation instead of competition is the rule?

More on that subject in the 4 page thread started back in 2018 entitled "The Divine Feminine Re-emerging and the New Paradigm":
My post there with more about Marija Gimbutas follows.
And Gimbutus is a very good place to start if you want to know about matriarchy, however impossible and insignificant such a thing may seem after so many centuries of patriarchy.
(Ironically, it certainly seems like more than a decade since I wrote the following back in 2020....)
Something from the following I will reword, and say I think that it's natural for patriarchy to be predominant at times and matriarchy at others, as many sources have outlined including the ancient Hindu cosmology.
But it does seems that in this low point of the current Kali Yuga era, patriarchy has been the means by which destruction has been implemented by negative forces, whether by ETs or Archons, in order to gain power over and bring ruination to the planet and to humanity.
(The psychic Gigi Young has also talked quite knowledgably about what happens when patriarchy and when matriarchy is ascendant and the differences between the Divine Feminine and the Divine Masculine in various of her talks, largely based on Theosophy and Anthroposophy here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?113646-Gigi-Young-Talks ) :


I LOVE Gimbutas's work! :heart:She practically rewrote history, and makes so much sense, though of course, her contribution has been vastly underrated and unrecognized.
I don't think patriarchy is natural to the human race, I think it's been imposed on us by the Reptilians, via the Annunaki, and her work supports that premise.
Thanks for adding her work to this thread, EFO.
For anyone who isn't familiar with her, she is similar to Z. Sitchin in the way of re-writing history, only none of her work was channeled, but was impeccably researched and documented.

Bumping...and bringing in my small male-ish contribution :)

Interesting thread to read,but there are missing pieces...lost in time by politics and politicians/historians/clerics and other low grade entities,if I may say so.

When I was in primary school,in History manual there was a lesson,long enough for me to understand it at that time and no action to attract my attention,where was detailed how Matriarhat was in Neolithic and was supposed to be a peaceful society and describing how it was in those times and after that lesson the history lessons real were beginning.I don't remember what was written,only what I wrote.Sorry.Why I have this memory over years,I don't know.

Marija Gimbutas surfaced by her work a lot of artifacts proving that at specific time in history there was a women centered civilization.
The World of the Goddess - Marija Gimbutas
"An absorbing view of the culture, religious beliefs, symbolism and mythology of the prehistoric, pre-patriarchal cultures of Old Europe, who revered and celebrated the Great Goddess of Life, Death, and Regeneration in all her many forms, of plants, of stone, of animals and humans, by the scholar who has made the exploration of these cultures her life work.... The program is produced by William Free, producer of the acclaimed television series with Joseph Campbell, "Transformations of Myth through Time."

On Gimbutas:

Marija Gimbutas was a Lithuanian-American archeologist known for her research into the Neolithic and Bronze Age cultures of "Old Europe", a term she introduced. Her works published between 1946 and 1971 introduced new views by combining traditional spadework with linguistics and mythological interpretation."
One more thing to add:Maria Bitoi from OP is Romanian.

[Mike]

Nat that's all made up nonsense:)

[onawah]

I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.
And DON'T you dare pretend that's an answer! :p
I know you all too well. :jester:


Nat that's all made up nonsense:)

[Mike]

Raskolnikov, if we had free energy, that would take a major bite out of industry and therefore some of the biggest power players.. and we'd all save a sh!tload of $ in the absence of gas/electric expenditures. But there'd still be bankers and dead end jobs and wars. Maybe I'm just being thick, but it's not obvious to me at all how these things would suddenly just disappear in the presence of free energy. We'll still use money, and we'll still need to work for a living to buy food and pay rent and so on, and our weaponry would be infinitely more sophisticated with the new tech..so war would not only remain a major threat, but one that could possibly incinerate the planet with one reckless move. We'd need more regulations and infrastructure (government) to regulate it, wouldn't we?

I promise you, I'm not trying to be annoying!:) In my heart of hearts I want what you want; I want some version of the world you're articulating here, no doubt. I hate to be the curmudgeon in the room. I'd love to release all my skepticism and embrace this vision wholeheartedly, but my mind won't let me do it. It keeps dragging me back to reality.

[Mike]

I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.
And DON'T you dare pretend that's an answer! :p
I know you all too well. :jester:


Nat that's all made up nonsense:)


Well, "Women's Studies"?? Come on!:) That's one of those 'critical theories', like Lesbian Dance or Queer Theory or Post Colonial Studies. It's all woke gobbledygook.

It's a myth, just like saying black slaves built America, or black people are the original Brits, or that Joan of Arc was trans. It's a rewriting of history that's mostly based on faulty interpretations of symbolism.

'Feminist scholarship' is an oxymoron, I promise! And it's not because women are dumb or anything, it's just because it's a woke social science, which means it's not a science at all.

[Tintin]

In lieu of anything I may choose to write myself on this fast-becoming-very-interesting-thread this gem from Doc Malik (https://x.com/DocAhmadMalik/status/1935392574316941774) packs heavily, and is of course 'on the shekel'. (Interesting history on the shekel here albeit admittedly wildly off-topic here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekel) :) )

---------------



Most of my extended family, around 90 percent, live in America.
I have friends and family there. I have visited many times.
We even spent our honeymoon in Yosemite, my third time there.
I love Americans.
But I despise the American government.
A fifth column rules your nation. A shadow power that pretends to serve the people but drains the country like a parasite feeding off its host.
That host is now anaemic, fragile, and barely standing.

They have opened the borders to around 30 million illegal entrants, many of them criminals.
They have poisoned your youth with opioids and synthetic drugs.
They steal from you through fraudulent taxation.
They have assassinated your presidents.
They send your sons and daughters to fight endless wars, only to return dead, broken, or traumatised.
They create the very disasters they later pretend to fix.
They are not misguided. They are evil.

They have wrecked your communities, hollowed out your cities, and dismantled your culture.
They push woke ideology, DEI, ESG policies, and radical gender theory.
Their roots are Marxist. Their core is Satanic.
They blame foreign nations, especially Muslim countries, for problems they themselves created through decades of bombing and destabilisation.
They run the NGOs. They manage the logistics. They are behind the mass migration, even as they complain about its consequences.

They hate America. And they hate you.
When will Americans wake up and take their country back?
6:42 PM · Jun 18, 2025
·

[Mike]

In lieu of anything I may choose to write myself on this fast-becoming-very-interesting-thread this gem from Doc Malik (https://x.com/DocAhmadMalik/status/1935392574316941774) packs heavily, and is of course 'on the shekel'. (Interesting history on the shekel here albeit admittedly wildly off-topic here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekel) :) )

---------------



Most of my extended family, around 90 percent, live in America.
I have friends and family there. I have visited many times.
We even spent our honeymoon in Yosemite, my third time there.
I love Americans.
But I despise the American government.
A fifth column rules your nation. A shadow power that pretends to serve the people but drains the country like a parasite feeding off its host.
That host is now anaemic, fragile, and barely standing.

They have opened the borders to around 30 million illegal entrants, many of them criminals.
They have poisoned your youth with opioids and synthetic drugs.
They steal from you through fraudulent taxation.
They have assassinated your presidents.
They send your sons and daughters to fight endless wars, only to return dead, broken, or traumatised.
They create the very disasters they later pretend to fix.
They are not misguided. They are evil.

They have wrecked your communities, hollowed out your cities, and dismantled your culture.
They push woke ideology, DEI, ESG policies, and radical gender theory.
Their roots are Marxist. Their core is Satanic.
They blame foreign nations, especially Muslim countries, for problems they themselves created through decades of bombing and destabilisation.
They run the NGOs. They manage the logistics. They are behind the mass migration, even as they complain about its consequences.

They hate America. And they hate you.
When will Americans wake up and take their country back?
6:42 PM · Jun 18, 2025
·


I agree entirely my friend. All very well said.

I just try to make a distinction between that fifth column (or "deep state") and what we might call the "good guys". But even the good guys are morally complex and often forced into lesser of the evil decisions.

This is Dennis' cue to return to the thread and remind us that they're all rotten to the core scumbags and no distinctions should be made at all!:bigsmile:

[Raskolnikov]

Raskolnikov, if we had free energy, that would take a major bite out of industry and therefore some of the biggest power players.. and we'd all save a sh!tload of $ in the absence of gas/electric expenditures. But there'd still be bankers and dead end jobs and wars. Maybe I'm just being thick, but it's not obvious to me at all how these things would suddenly just disappear in the presence of free energy. We'll still use money, and we'll still need to work for a living to buy food and pay rent and so on, and our weaponry would be infinitely more sophisticated with the new tech..so war would not only remain a major threat, but one that could possibly incinerate the planet with one reckless move. We'd need more regulations and infrastructure (government) to regulate it, wouldn't we?

I promise you, I'm not trying to be annoying!:) In my heart of hearts I want what you want; I want some version of the world you're articulating here, no doubt. I hate to be the curmudgeon in the room. I'd love to release all my skepticism and embrace this vision wholeheartedly, but my mind won't let me do it. It keeps dragging me back to reality.

Ah the monkey mind, maybe when 100 other monkeys start seeing it my way, lol. It's all about the evolution of the individual, that's going to be the key component of what I speak. A society of real individuals as opposed to the collectivism being rammed down our throat by the American govenment desribed so well in Tintin's post, couldn't have said it better myself. Why would people war with one another if they have everything they could possibly want or need? It's a little pie in the sky but something deep down tells me this is where we come from and this is where we're going again, once we root out the parasites of course. Do your parasite cleanses everyone!

[Raskolnikov]

there'd still be bankers and dead end jobs and wars...it's not obvious to me at all how these things would suddenly just disappear in the presence of free energy. We'll still use money, and we'll still need to work for a living to buy food and pay rent and so on, and our weaponry would be infinitely more sophisticated

I realize I didn't properly address your concerns. The money issue always reminds me of what Alex Collier said about his extraterrestial friend asking him to explain money, and then just not understanding why a species has to pay to live on a planet that they were born on. Believe it's safe to say that everyone on this forum knows there are other life forms throughout the multiverse, that it's not woo-woo, just take a trip up to the Gilliland ranch if you still have doubts. Many of these races seem highly advanced with a superior intellect and have repeatedly likened our advancement to the toddler in the room who's reaching for the loaded revolver, Trump is a good example of this. So again, back to the evolution of the individual.

In an overunity society, money isn't necessary. Everything is abundant and at everyone's disposal at all times, free shelter, free transportation, free quality healthcare, free healthy food; while an aware and enlightened populace relishes their chosen fields of endeavor (everyone skilled in their own unique way) because they know it's a boon and a benefit to all, so it's both enjoyable and rewarding, real purpose and meaning, what a concept. Call me a homeless romantic, but that sounds pretty good to me.

[Mike]

I think the point of life is adventure, not happiness. Human beings are after fulfillment, not fun. We are designed to strive upwards and solve problems; that's where our meaning is derived. Happiness and fun are a part of that, but not the entre.

If there are no problems left to solve, humans beings will create problems. Utopia isn't the goal ultimately; meaning is the goal. Our personal evolution as you've called it will never erase our ambition, desire to compete, be better etc because if it did there would be no meaning to existence. Utopia would, ironically, kill our spirit.

I'm not sure if you were serious about the parasite thing, but that's another one of those things that I often hear utopians talk about. It's all remarkably simple in their eyes. If only we got rid of the parasites! Everyone would behave compassionately and in the best interest of the group; for religionists it's, if only we all converted to Christianity or Islam everyone would behave compassionately and in the best interest of the group; for vegans it's, if only we all stopped eating meat everyone would behave compassionately and in the interests of the group; for UFO people it's, if only we all listened to the space brothers everyone would behave compassionately and in the interest of the group; for woke people it's, if only we all equalized outcomes among all the marginalized people everyone would behave compassionately and in the interest of the group etc etc etc

But no one wants to grapple with the gritty details. Specific questions about these utopias are avoided like the plague and even discouraged ultimately. Implicit in this attitude is something like , come on, if you'd just believe and stop asking all these pesky questions we could manifest this wonderful utopia! See, it works on faith, and in that way it's no different than a religion.

I'm reading what you're writing here, and I have a great appreciation for the spirit of it (and would have even made the same exact arguments just a few short years ago) but I'm still none the wiser on how it would actually look in reality. Even if we lived in abundance (still not sure exactly what that means tbh) and everything was free..people would still have to perform very mundane and degrading duties on a daily basis, ones they would eventually grow to resent no matter how evolved you imagine this society to be. Show me the man who would raise his hand to clean ****ty toilets for the rest of his life:)..because it's a boon and benefit to all. Show me the man who would volunteer to work at a garbage dump because "someone needs to do it". Here's the thing: if we're all left to merely choose our field of endeavor, and the reward is exactly the same, no one is gonna choose menial labor.

And those doctors working 70 hour weeks to provide that free healthcare.. they're gonna get pissed off eventually, especially when they see all the free loaders doing nothing because the incentive structure has collapsed. Same with the farmers breaking their backs to provide that free healthy food...and so forth.

Money is just an expression of effort and time. Some humans are willing to put in far more effort and time than others, and deserve to be rewarded for it. That's how I'd explain it to any confused extraterrestrials:)

[onawah]

That's just idiotic Mike. There has been plenty of information about Matriarchy for centuries before Wokeism ever appeared.
You obviously must think I'm dumb for even suggesting such a thing. Well, back 'atcha.
Marijah Gimbutus, a very legit and respected researcher, would be a very good place for you to start to see how wrong you are, but I don't expect you will take the trouble.
So end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.





I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.
And DON'T you dare pretend that's an answer! :p
I know you all too well. :jester:


Nat that's all made up nonsense:)


Well, "Women's Studies"?? Come on!:) That's one of those 'critical theories', like Lesbian Dance or Queer Theory or Post Colonial Studies. It's all woke gobbledygook.

It's a myth, just like saying black slaves built America, or black people are the original Brits, or that Joan of Arc was trans. It's a rewriting of history that's mostly based on faulty interpretations of symbolism.

'Feminist scholarship' is an oxymoron, I promise! And it's not because women are dumb or anything, it's just because it's a woke social science, which means it's not a science at all.

[Mike]

That's just idiotic Mike. There has been plenty of information about Matriarchy for centuries before Wokeism ever appeared.
You obviously must think I'm dumb for even suggesting such a thing. Well, back 'atcha.
Marijah Gimbutus, a very legit and respected researcher, would be a very good place for you to start to see how wrong you are, but I don't expect you will take the trouble.
So end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.





I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.
And DON'T you dare pretend that's an answer! :p
I know you all too well. :jester:


Nat that's all made up nonsense:)


Well, "Women's Studies"?? Come on!:) That's one of those 'critical theories', like Lesbian Dance or Queer Theory or Post Colonial Studies. It's all woke gobbledygook.

It's a myth, just like saying black slaves built America, or black people are the original Brits, or that Joan of Arc was trans. It's a rewriting of history that's mostly based on faulty interpretations of symbolism.

'Feminist scholarship' is an oxymoron, I promise! And it's not because women are dumb or anything, it's just because it's a woke social science, which means it's not a science at all.


Alot of smart people are swayed by things that aren't true. Happens all the time. Happens to me, you, everyone. It doesn't suggest dumbness, and I'm not calling you dumb:heart:

But this matriarchal socialist paradise that Gimbutis suggests is a myth. I don't need to take the trouble to look into her because I've already done it, otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered commenting. What she offers is something like a psychological myth being presented as reality. It's no more real than what your buddy Kimberly Goguen puts out.

[onawah]

My "buddy" Kimberly Goguen? I've done nothing but expose what a fraud she is.
As I said, Mike, discussion over as far as I'm concerned. Your opinion on the matter of Matriarchy is pretty typical in this patriarchal age, but that doesn't make it accurate.


That's just idiotic Mike. There has been plenty of information about Matriarchy for centuries before Wokeism ever appeared.
You obviously must think I'm dumb for even suggesting such a thing. Well, back 'atcha.
Marijah Gimbutus, a very legit and respected researcher, would be a very good place for you to start to see how wrong you are, but I don't expect you will take the trouble.
So end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.





I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.
And DON'T you dare pretend that's an answer! :p
I know you all too well. :jester:


Nat that's all made up nonsense:)


Well, "Women's Studies"?? Come on!:) That's one of those 'critical theories', like Lesbian Dance or Queer Theory or Post Colonial Studies. It's all woke gobbledygook.

It's a myth, just like saying black slaves built America, or black people are the original Brits, or that Joan of Arc was trans. It's a rewriting of history that's mostly based on faulty interpretations of symbolism.

'Feminist scholarship' is an oxymoron, I promise! And it's not because women are dumb or anything, it's just because it's a woke social science, which means it's not a science at all.


Alot of smart people are swayed by things that aren't true. Happens all the time. Happens to me, you, everyone. It doesn't suggest dumbness, and I'm not calling you dumb:heart:

But this matriarchal socialist paradise that Gimbutis suggests is a myth. I don't need to take the trouble to look into her because I've already done it, otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered commenting. What she offers is something like a psychological myth being presented as reality. It's no more real that what your buddy Kimberly Goguen puts out.

[Mike]

Nat the 'buddy' comment was an obvious joke!:)

I wouldn't call my attitude towards socialist utopias patriarchal. I'd just call it realistic.

[Raskolnikov]

I think the point of life is adventure, not happiness. Human beings are after fulfillment, not fun. We are designed to strive upwards and solve problems; that's where our meaning is derived. Happiness and fun are a part of that, but not the entre.

If there are no problems left to solve, humans beings will create problems. Utopia isn't the goal ultimately; meaning is the goal. Our personal evolution as you've called it will never erase our ambition, desire to compete, be better etc because if it did there would be no meaning to existence. Utopia would, ironically, kill our spirit.

I'm not sure if you were serious about the parasite thing, but that's another one of those things that I often hear utopians talk about. It's all remarkably simple in their eyes. If only we got rid of the parasites! Everyone would behave compassionately and in the best interest of the group; for religionists it's, if only we all converted to Christianity or Islam everyone would behave compassionately and in the best interest of the group; for vegans it's, if only we all stopped eating meat everyone would behave compassionately and in the interests of the group; for UFO people it's, if only we all listened to the space brothers everyone would behave compassionately and in the interest of the group; for woke people it's, if only we all equalized outcomes among all the marginalized people everyone would behave compassionately and in the interest of the group etc etc etc

But no one wants to grapple with the gritty details. Specific questions about these utopias are avoided like the plague and even discouraged ultimately. Implicit in this attitude is something like , come on, if you'd just believe and stop asking all these pesky questions we could manifest this wonderful utopia! See, it works on faith, and in that way it's no different than a religion.

I'm reading what you're writing here, and I have a great appreciation for the spirit of it (and would have even made the same exact arguments just a few short years ago) but I'm still none the wiser on how it would actually look in reality. Even if we lived in abundance (still not sure exactly what that means tbh) and everything was free..people would still have to perform very mundane and degrading duties on a daily basis, ones they would eventually grow to resent no matter how evolved you imagine this society to be. Show me the man who would raise his hand to clean ****ty toilets for the rest of his life:)..because it's a boon and benefit to all. Show me the man who would volunteer to work at a garbage dump because "someone needs to do it". Here's the thing: if we're all left to merely choose our field of endeavor, and the reward is exactly the same, no one is gonna choose menial labor.

And those doctors working 70 hour weeks to provide that free healthcare.. they're gonna get pissed off eventually, especially when they see all the free loaders doing nothing because the incentive structure has collapsed. Same with the farmers breaking their backs to provide that free healthy food...and so forth.

Money is just an expression of effort and time. Some humans are willing to put in far more effort and time than others, and deserve to be rewarded for it. That's how I'd explain it to any confused extraterrestrials:)

“I think the point of life is adventure, not happiness. Human beings are after fulfillment, not fun. We are designed to strive upwards and solve problems; that's where our meaning is derived. Happiness and fun are a part of that, but not the entre.”

Well I never implied that meaning is derived from fun or happiness. Meaning comes from finding your purpose in life and pursuing that purpose. It’s ironic that in the early days “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” was actually, “life, liberty, and property.” But now it’s “you’ll own nothing and be happy.” Imagine the looks on the founders faces upon reading such a statement, tea tax got nothing on that!

And I know I’m painting myself as the outcast to even mention free sh!t in the era of libtard entitlement and woke meltdowns, where free sh!t is expected and government is the daddy that must provide, because slavery and Hitler happened and you will always be guilty for being white.

“Our personal evolution as you've called it will never erase our ambition, desire to compete, be better etc because if it did there would be no meaning to existence.”

Buddha, Jesus, the great sages of India, Greece, and Rome would all beg to differ with that assessment. Personal evolution is the only thing that will ever check ambition and desire and allow one to see if there's still any traces of vanity behind such drives, because otherwise we will be left chasing the voices of our monkey minds for eternity and be none the better because it’s nothing but mindless chatter.

And Utopia’s nothing but a dog whistle used to demean anyone trying to make a meaningful argument about a different version of society based upon something other than restrictive government. For one, this different version of society would not kill our spirit, it would give us a renewed sense of life and meaning, the current form of government is killing our spirit, both figuratively and literally.

And yes, I was serious about parasites, both physical and spiritual. Let me quote a passage from 36,000 years ago to support my argument:

“Only through blood could they form being, only through man could they live in the world…Aye, when the blood was offered, forth came they to dwell among men. In the form of man moved they amongst us, but only to sight, were they as are men. Serpent-headed when the glamour was lifted, but appearing to man as men among men. Crept they into the councils, taking form that were like unto men. Slaying by their arts the chiefs of the kingdoms, taking their form and ruling o’er man. Only by magic could they be discovered, only by sound could their faces be seen. Sought they from the kingdom of shadows, to destroy man and rule in his place.” The Emerald Tablets of Thoth

These are the parasites of which I speak; these are the parasites that have infested our world.

In truth, I’m asking the same pesky questions as you, and it’s not stemming from religion. Maybe from faith, a faith that our human history is more than we’ve been led to believe, why else the massive coverup?

"I'm reading what you're writing here, and I have a great appreciation for the spirit of it (and would have even made the same exact arguments just a few short years ago) but I'm still none the wiser on how it would actually look in reality. Even if we lived in abundance (still not sure exactly what that means tbh) and everything was free..people would still have to perform very mundane and degrading duties on a daily basis, ones they would eventually grow to resent no matter how evolved you imagine this society to be. Show me the man who would raise his hand to clean ****ty toilets for the rest of his life..because it's a boon and benefit to all. Show me the man who would volunteer to work at a garbage dump because "someone needs to do it". Here's the thing: if we're all left to merely choose our field of endeavor, and the reward is exactly the same, no one is gonna choose menial labor."

But would a free people actually “have to perform very mundane and degrading duties on a daily basis?” Couldn’t a population with unlimited resources and an abundance of time create new ways to perform such menial tasks? Couldn’t we construct cities where everything is utilized, ala the Flux Capacitor to the nth degree, so that jobs that create such resentment would never have to be performed by human beings and could maybe be automated? And come on, in a society of healthy productive individuals, doctors will not have to work 70 hours a week. Most likely they’ll be put out of work altogether except to create new forms of health that surpass and enhance normal states, because why the hell not! In China, doctors used to only be paid when their patients remained healthy, and profits ceased when the patients became ill. That makes much more sense to me than what we have today. And farmers will no longer be breaking their backs in a society that understands the laws of physics, the laws of nature, and the laws of all other branches of science, I refer you again to the breakthroughs of Wilcock’s Source Field Investigations.

You have a great analytical mind, Mike, that would make any Harvard professor proud (not meant as an insult, lol), but maybe it’s time to turn our energies to a more productive line of analysis.

[onawah]

Not really funny.
Matriarchies are not necessarily "utopias" or what we think of now as socialism, but have existed in the past and there is plenty of historical evidence to prove it.
Some of Gigi Young's talks which are largely based on Theosophy and Anthroposophy are about what happens when patriarchies go awry (destructive technologies making a mess, which is certainly evident now, as was the case in Atlantis).
...As opposed to matriarchies that have failed (when preserving Nature is what matters more than anything).
Gigi's talks are largely based on Theosophy and Anthroposophy, the original roots of which go way back and there are lots of historical records.
There have been matriarchal communities in Native America as well as India and elsewhere.
It's just been a long time since they were prolific, so the info is scarce, but they most certainly have existed.
I think the next Age will be approaching a better balance of masculine and feminine, but there is certainly a long way to go before that comes about.


Nat the 'buddy' comment was an obvious joke!:)

I wouldn't call my attitude towards socialist utopias patriarchal. I'd just call it realistic.

[Mike]

I think the point of life is adventure, not happiness. Human beings are after fulfillment, not fun. We are designed to strive upwards and solve problems; that's where our meaning is derived. Happiness and fun are a part of that, but not the entre.

If there are no problems left to solve, humans beings will create problems. Utopia isn't the goal ultimately; meaning is the goal. Our personal evolution as you've called it will never erase our ambition, desire to compete, be better etc because if it did there would be no meaning to existence. Utopia would, ironically, kill our spirit.

I'm not sure if you were serious about the parasite thing, but that's another one of those things that I often hear utopians talk about. It's all remarkably simple in their eyes. If only we got rid of the parasites! Everyone would behave compassionately and in the best interest of the group; for religionists it's, if only we all converted to Christianity or Islam everyone would behave compassionately and in the best interest of the group; for vegans it's, if only we all stopped eating meat everyone would behave compassionately and in the interests of the group; for UFO people it's, if only we all listened to the space brothers everyone would behave compassionately and in the interest of the group; for woke people it's, if only we all equalized outcomes among all the marginalized people everyone would behave compassionately and in the interest of the group etc etc etc

But no one wants to grapple with the gritty details. Specific questions about these utopias are avoided like the plague and even discouraged ultimately. Implicit in this attitude is something like , come on, if you'd just believe and stop asking all these pesky questions we could manifest this wonderful utopia! See, it works on faith, and in that way it's no different than a religion.

I'm reading what you're writing here, and I have a great appreciation for the spirit of it (and would have even made the same exact arguments just a few short years ago) but I'm still none the wiser on how it would actually look in reality. Even if we lived in abundance (still not sure exactly what that means tbh) and everything was free..people would still have to perform very mundane and degrading duties on a daily basis, ones they would eventually grow to resent no matter how evolved you imagine this society to be. Show me the man who would raise his hand to clean ****ty toilets for the rest of his life:)..because it's a boon and benefit to all. Show me the man who would volunteer to work at a garbage dump because "someone needs to do it". Here's the thing: if we're all left to merely choose our field of endeavor, and the reward is exactly the same, no one is gonna choose menial labor.

And those doctors working 70 hour weeks to provide that free healthcare.. they're gonna get pissed off eventually, especially when they see all the free loaders doing nothing because the incentive structure has collapsed. Same with the farmers breaking their backs to provide that free healthy food...and so forth.

Money is just an expression of effort and time. Some humans are willing to put in far more effort and time than others, and deserve to be rewarded for it. That's how I'd explain it to any confused extraterrestrials:)

“I think the point of life is adventure, not happiness. Human beings are after fulfillment, not fun. We are designed to strive upwards and solve problems; that's where our meaning is derived. Happiness and fun are a part of that, but not the entre.”

Well I never implied that meaning is derived from fun or happiness. Meaning comes from finding your purpose in life and pursuing that purpose. It’s ironic that in the early days “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” was actually, “life, liberty, and property.” But now it’s “you’ll own nothing and be happy.” Imagine the looks on the founders faces upon reading such a statement, tea tax got nothing on that!

And I know I’m painting myself as the outcast to even mention free sh!t in the era of libtard entitlement and woke meltdowns, where free sh!t is expected and government is the daddy that must provide, because slavery and Hitler happened and you will always be guilty for being white.

“Our personal evolution as you've called it will never erase our ambition, desire to compete, be better etc because if it did there would be no meaning to existence.”

Buddha, Jesus, the great sages of India, Greece, and Rome would all beg to differ with that assessment. Personal evolution is the only thing that will ever check ambition and desire and allow one to see if there's still any traces of vanity behind such drives, because otherwise we will be left chasing the voices of our monkey minds for eternity and be none the better because it’s nothing but mindless chatter.

And Utopia’s nothing but a dog whistle used to demean anyone trying to make a meaningful argument about a different version of society based upon something other than restrictive government. For one, this different version of society would not kill our spirit, it would give us a renewed sense of life and meaning, the current form of government is killing our spirit, both figuratively and literally.

And yes, I was serious about parasites, both physical and spiritual. Let me quote a passage from 36,000 years ago to support my argument:

“Only through blood could they form being, only through man could they live in the world…Aye, when the blood was offered, forth came they to dwell among men. In the form of man moved they amongst us, but only to sight, were they as are men. Serpent-headed when the glamour was lifted, but appearing to man as men among men. Crept they into the councils, taking form that were like unto men. Slaying by their arts the chiefs of the kingdoms, taking their form and ruling o’er man. Only by magic could they be discovered, only by sound could their faces be seen. Sought they from the kingdom of shadows, to destroy man and rule in his place.” The Emerald Tablets of Thoth

These are the parasites of which I speak; these are the parasites that have infested our world.

In truth, I’m asking the same pesky questions as you, and it’s not stemming from religion. Maybe from faith, a faith that our human history is more than we’ve been led to believe, why else the massive coverup?

"I'm reading what you're writing here, and I have a great appreciation for the spirit of it (and would have even made the same exact arguments just a few short years ago) but I'm still none the wiser on how it would actually look in reality. Even if we lived in abundance (still not sure exactly what that means tbh) and everything was free..people would still have to perform very mundane and degrading duties on a daily basis, ones they would eventually grow to resent no matter how evolved you imagine this society to be. Show me the man who would raise his hand to clean ****ty toilets for the rest of his life..because it's a boon and benefit to all. Show me the man who would volunteer to work at a garbage dump because "someone needs to do it". Here's the thing: if we're all left to merely choose our field of endeavor, and the reward is exactly the same, no one is gonna choose menial labor."

But would a free people actually “have to perform very mundane and degrading duties on a daily basis?” Couldn’t a population with unlimited resources and an abundance of time create new ways to perform such menial tasks? Couldn’t we construct cities where everything is utilized, ala the Flux Capacitor to the nth degree, so that jobs that create such resentment would never have to be performed by human beings and could maybe be automated? And come on, in a society of healthy productive individuals, doctors will not have to work 70 hours a week. Most likely they’ll be put out of work altogether except to create new forms of health that surpass and enhance normal states, because why the hell not! In China, doctors used to only be paid when their patients remained healthy, and profits ceased when the patients became ill. That makes much more sense to me than what we have today. And farmers will no longer be breaking their backs in a society that understands the laws of physics, the laws of nature, and the laws of all other branches of science, I refer you again to the breakthroughs of Wilcock’s Source Field Investigations.

You have a great analytical mind, Mike, that would make any Harvard professor proud (not meant as an insult, lol), but maybe it’s time to turn our energies to a more productive line of analysis.


Brother, but you are describing a utopia:). Free energy, flux capacitors, unlimited resources, an abundance of free time, no disease .. what is that if not a utopia? No dog whistles here, truly.

We're conversing hypothetically here, so fair enough..everything goes. But you're drifting off into science fiction a little whereas I'm trying to offer a realistic solution for our current reality. I don't think we can have a productive debate about it all if every time I challenge your position you evoke a hypothetical technology that will solve all our problems for us. Yes, if everything you posit is possible and emerged into our daily lives somehow, it sure would be great. It would be great if Superman arrived and fixed everything for us too, but it ain't happenin.

I do think free energy exists and is being suppressed. I also believe in personal evolution and it's importance, so we're not at cross purposes there (though I don't think we need to evolve beyond our competitive/ambitious nature or suppress it; we need to integrate it imo to ensure it's used productively and healthily). As I've said numerous times, I believe human beings are hierarchical by nature, and find meaning in upward striving and problem solving. With all our problems already solved in your model, what would there be left for us to do? I think, at least initially, there would be a crisis of meaning among the population.

But, if we got past it we might begin focusing our energies off world, and that would be pretty cool. I like that idea. We might also focus on evolving spiritually if we dedicated our time to that sort of stuff. That's super exciting, and partially why your vision appeals to me. I'm thinking of an Avatar type society, one that exists in union with nature but also possesses highly advanced technology. How f'in cool would that be? I do worry about art in this society; some of the best art currently emerged from some sort of struggle. I think we need to be wary about eliminating struggle; it sounds counterintuitive, I know, but struggle is one of those load bearing walls I mentioned earlier. It's the source of meaning for many. To offer a well worn cliche, diamonds emerge from the friction of struggle. In the type of utopia you describe, the only struggle might be in having to fight off apathy. What would prevent us from getting soft and weak? How would we produce diamonds?

Look, I love your vision. I choose your model every time! I don't wanna f#ckin work man:). My entire adult life has been an exercise in how to create the most free time as possible - I've been doing it consciously and unconsciously for as long as I can remember. I value my time more than anything else..money, possessions, you name it. I do everything I can to escape this exhausting matrix. But I also have great appreciation for what I do have; western civilization is the most prosperous, most abundant, least tyrannical society in all of history. It's an absolute blessing to be part of it. I have enormous gratitude for it and everyone that made it possible. And none of it would have been possible without some form of government. The Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights..all gifts from God. So if I sound a little prickly or aggravated (sorry about that btw) when socialist utopias are evoked (or just utopias in general), or no government at all models, it's because it feels disrespectful in some way to our forefathers, and also because I can only really earnestly consider the here and now and work within the reality presented to me.

It's possible that I'm too analytical. I acknowledge that. And btw I'm glad everyone doesn't think like me, as stubborn as I am about my position here. I think I'd be disappointed if you lost your idealism. It actually gives me hope that you're so hopeful. It's likely best for the world in general to have a healthy mix of boring analytical types like me and expansive thinkers like yourself. Maybe some alchemy is born from it all that'll propel us forward in the most mutually prosperous way possible.

[Mike Gorman]

If you are any kind of student of history, socialist utopias have always ended up with people being murdered for any kind of push back, rifles being aimed at heads...socialist ideology cannot tolerate free speech or intellectual dissent, it demands obedience, much like a priamry school classroom presided over by a mistress...sound familiar? The only cultural approach that favors freedom and true diversity is capitalism and the free market. Until we can have free energy, that is the best of our offerings-once we have abundant /energy everything changes. My opinions of course.

[Merkaba360]

The problem is that my mom thinks i'm talking about stuff that will come about in 500 years :) But apparently by the end of this year we could see Optimus Prime be the first humanoid robot to WALK out of the factory. Its crazy how agile and complex their ability to move now is. Im confident Quantum computing is just about to hit the stage as well. Combine all that together with the massive AI data centers they are scaling up now.

My point is that drifting off into wonderous sci fi, isnt mental masturbating 500 years into the future anymore like my mom imagines. Sci Fi world is about to explode. So, its harder to just discuss the present now , cuz so many of our debates about making some political changes are about to become obsolete. Im not gonna hard debate issues that i think will be irrelevant in say 1-10 years. Its becoming way easier/faster to improve the system thru tech than get the corrupt leaders to improve things , given many are trying to make life hell for us.

Oh we should cut these gov't programs cuz bla bla bla...and all of the sudden BAM the whole systems efficiency is doubled in a few years dwarfing the minor thing we were debating about a few years prior.

And in some ways, arguments from the past can be obsolete as well. Its possible that Socialism in the past was all corrupt and crappy implementations. That the distorted idea failed cuz the ideology was written down and implemented way ahead of its time. Maybe in the future some kind of socialism is more advanced than what we have now. It just needed more evolved humans and more tech. I use the word socialism loosely cuz it seems there are so many types. I think of the word as involving integration and cooperation while capitalism being the independence end of the spectrum. In this sense, all the social programs and types of insurance are "socialist" upgrades to the capitalist system. The scary words of communism/socialism is dependence while capitalism is independence. The truth of life is in the balance, interdependence.

I don't think we will ever just overthrow capitalism, and install a new much upgraded system. It will just keep evolving and hybridizing. You dont want communism or socialism at the fed level, cuz the psychos use that to take total control. I could see some of their ideas being implemented at the community level or thru cyberspace as we create more connected systems online to help the collective.

I'm with Mike, im tired of working too and i guess im an old soul that just doesnt have the drive and motivation like some of these worker bees or CEOs. I want to BE, not so much Do. So, I also value free time over everything else, except health and safety.

I think optimus can clean all the toilets soon or at least there will be so many fewer jobs that we can divide up the dirty work. Only 5 hours of dirty work per week needed. In other words i think these classic debates of "someones gotta do the dirty work" is going to largely become a non issue over the next few decades. If I feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, then its near enough to not waste to much energy debating the issue.

I think the idea that we need pressure to create a diamond might also be tied to lower levels of existence. Afterall , diamonds are part of one of the lowest forms of life, the mineral kingdom. lol I think of a more evolved state feeling something like ecstasy or shrooms. Regaining incredible energy like children have as well as feeling high powered love beaming out of our chests like care bears. I dont know that those problems of needing motivation thru struggle apply in higher states like they do now. We become driven by the pure light from within and apathy dissolves. Its hard to say which of these truths are local to our stage of life and which are more universal. I feel that if its universal, its just a different degree. Like the struggle required is less and different, not grueling or whatever.

Im kinda rambling, hope this fits into some of whats discussed above on this page :) sorry for off topic too, but not even sure what this thread topic is. lol. Oh yea we Avalonians, can ramble and discuss anything, not just stubborn aging people with rigid beliefs and accepting Lord Trump in our hearts as savior.

[HopSan]

Hello, all!

Some points that came to mind from previous messages:

1. There is no 'we'. You, who write 'we', assume that every one is
as talented or good-willing as you. It is not so.

2. World IQ is somewhere between 80 and 90.

3. I lived for about two years in a 'commune'. Wonderful people.
Their avg. IQ was at least 120. Did not work.

4. People with IQ of 80-90 are impulsive, follow feelings-of-moment,
cannot really understand what they read, etc.

They cannot create or sustain a civilization.

5. Something illustrative, published before illusions began to dominate:

https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997whygmatters.pdf

Page 117 has been shared widely everywhere.


Truth is like weather. It is there, whether you like it or not.

[Raskolnikov]

Brother, but you are describing a utopia:). Free energy, flux capacitors, unlimited resources, an abundance of free time, no disease .. what is that if not a utopia? No dog whistles here, truly.

We're conversing hypothetically here, so fair enough..everything goes. But you're drifting off into science fiction a little whereas I'm trying to offer a realistic solution for our current reality. I don't think we can have a productive debate about it all if every time I challenge your position you evoke a hypothetical technology that will solve all our problems for us. Yes, if everything you posit is possible and emerged into our daily lives somehow, it sure would be great. It would be great if Superman arrived and fixed everything for us too, but it ain't happenin.

I do think free energy exists and is being suppressed. I also believe in personal evolution and it's importance, so we're not at cross purposes there (though I don't think we need to evolve beyond our competitive/ambitious nature or suppress it; we need to integrate it imo to ensure it's used productively and healthily). As I've said numerous times, I believe human beings are hierarchical by nature, and find meaning in upward striving and problem solving. With all our problems already solved in your model, what would there be left for us to do? I think, at least initially, there would be a crisis of meaning among the population.

But, if we got past it we might begin focusing our energies off world, and that would be pretty cool. I like that idea. We might also focus on evolving spiritually if we dedicated our time to that sort of stuff. That's super exciting, and partially why your vision appeals to me. I'm thinking of an Avatar type society, one that exists in union with nature but also possesses highly advanced technology. How f'in cool would that be? I do worry about art in this society; some of the best art currently emerged from some sort of struggle. I think we need to be wary about eliminating struggle; it sounds counterintuitive, I know, but struggle is one of those load bearing walls I mentioned earlier. It's the source of meaning for many. To offer a well worn cliche, diamonds emerge from the friction of struggle. In the type of utopia you describe, the only struggle might be in having to fight off apathy. What would prevent us from getting soft and weak? How would we produce diamonds?

Look, I love your vision. I choose your model every time! I don't wanna f#ckin work man:). My entire adult life has been an exercise in how to create the most free time as possible - I've been doing it consciously and unconsciously for as long as I can remember. I value my time more than anything else..money, possessions, you name it. I do everything I can to escape this exhausting matrix. But I also have great appreciation for what I do have; western civilization is the most prosperous, most abundant, least tyrannical society in all of history. It's an absolute blessing to be part of it. I have enormous gratitude for it and everyone that made it possible. And none of it would have been possible without some form of government. The Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights..all gifts from God. So if I sound a little prickly or aggravated (sorry about that btw) when socialist utopias are evoked (or just utopias in general), or no government at all models, it's because it feels disrespectful in some way to our forefathers, and also because I can only really earnestly consider the here and now and work within the reality presented to me.

It's possible that I'm too analytical. I acknowledge that. And btw I'm glad everyone doesn't think like me, as stubborn as I am about my position here. I think I'd be disappointed if you lost your idealism. It actually gives me hope that you're so hopeful. It's likely best for the world in general to have a healthy mix of boring analytical types like me and expansive thinkers like yourself. Maybe some alchemy is born from it all that'll propel us forward in the most mutually prosperous way possible.

Really? You had to go there and bring up Superman? Well, I guess it’s justified, I was a big fan of Nietzsche’s work, so much so I can still spell his name from memory, lol. And you make a good point about art stemming from struggle, and that struggle even becoming a source of meaning for many. I’ve used that same well worn pressure and time diamond cliche many times. Some of my best work has come from episodes of great turmoil and pain, so intense you feel reborn when you finally make it through. One of them was so traumatic that I began viewing the world as if I hadn’t survived but had died, so that I was now living in the afterlife or in eternity. And it was liberating, having that much free time, because who’s going to work a deadend job when they’re dead? Nobody. You’re going to pursue your highest and wildest dream whatever it may be. This world’s a funny place. In it’s present choatic state, to return to the well worn cliche, it feels like such a crash course in pressure and struggle that many will be walking around as bright as suns pretty soon.

And I appreciate you keeping it “civil,” couldn’t resist, but it’s nice when people can disagree and yet still find a way to come to a meeting of the minds despite their differences. Which rolls nicely into HopSan’s post:


Some points that came to mind from previous messages:

1. There is no 'we'. You, who write 'we', assume that every one is
as talented or good-willing as you. It is not so.

2. World IQ is somewhere between 80 and 90.

3. I lived for about two years in a 'commune'. Wonderful people.
Their avg. IQ was at least 120. Did not work.

4. People with IQ of 80-90 are impulsive, follow feelings-of-moment,
cannot really understand what they read, etc.

They cannot create or sustain a civilization.

Truth is like weather. It is there, whether you like it or not.

It’s a major concern, this whole woke, low intelligence thing, isn’t it. A good majority of people seem to be devolving into something unrecognizable, real life walking zombies. You can’t talk to them let alone expect them to be a part of any of the societies we’ve been discussing. It appears that while some are reaching new heights in their evolution, having done the hard yards and becoming better for it, others are devolving into the opposite, a low intellect, fat, lazy, retarded, victim full of entitlement, a vacant vessel of a being who slurps up what they’re selling and is ready to kill anyone who opposes or questions their tv talking points. Are we really going to be able to join our brothers from the stars, you know, the asshole hippies from outer space, with such pond scum as part of our race? May you live in interesting times indeed…

But hey, it was nice to see you explore some of the possibilities of a freer society, dare I say, one without government? I understand that in our current reality, where oppressive governments beat their people into submission and violate their rights in every conceivable way, to the point of death, that an overunity society is still a pipe dream. So I get and can appreciate your practical, no nonsense critique of such a society. And I understand your gratitude for what’s been bestowed upon us here in western civilization. It is a blessing, what the founders created, and yet this too has been usurped, as has been the case throughout all of written history. As Mike Gorman stated,


The only cultural approach that favors freedom and true diversity is capitalism and the free market. Until we can have free energy, that is the best of our offerings-once we have abundant /energy everything changes.

And yet if Merkaba360 is on the right track, these changes may dawn upon us sooner than later. I like to think they will. We know this stuff exists, hell, high school kids made cars that can go 10,000 miles on a gallon of water. It’s coming. As far as adversity and struggle being needed to fight off apathy in such a free and evolved society, I kind of resonate with what M360 described here:


I think of a more evolved state feeling something like ecstasy or shrooms. Regaining incredible energy like children have as well as feeling high powered love beaming out of our chests like care bears. I dont know that those problems of needing motivation thru struggle apply in higher states like they do now. We become driven by the pure light from within and apathy dissolves.

I hope so because I’m with you both when you say you’re tired of work and value your free time more than anything. “Imagine if you will, a world where you have time to enjoy your freedom..."

[Mike]

Raskolnikov, if you can spell Nietzsche's name from memory, you win my friend:). It breaks my brain every time.

Surely someone out there is having an entertaining drinking game, using the word "hierarchy" as their cue to take a shot of this or that. I feel like I've written it a million times, and yet I continue to insist on putting the "e" before the "i" every time and autocorrect is forced to step in. This is happening much more often as I get older. I console myself by pretending I'm dyslexic, but the little devil on my shoulder will have none of it. You're just f#cking retarded, he keeps telling me. And I secretly feel he's right.

Re trauma: what you've described might be the most inventive approach I've ever heard. I had 3 traumas right in row in my mid to late 20's. Where the hell were you when I needed you?? Was that your own revelation or did you read about that approach somewhere? Cool stuff. I'd love to hear more about that if you're ever in the mood to share it.

[ThePythonicCow]

This is happening much more often as I get older.
If you can still remember which words you usually misspell ... you're still a young'in.

[Bill Ryan]

I rote to Dennis privately a couple of days ago and told him he had been 100% right. :)

[Mike]

I rote to Dennis privately a couple of days ago and told him he had been 100% right. :)


100% right about what? Your lunchbox, sociopath de jour, or unicorn urine?:)

[Bill Ryan]

I rote to Dennis privately a couple of days ago and told him he had been 100% right. :)


100% right about what? Your lunchbox, sociopath de jour, or unicorn urine?:)#2. :)

[Merkaba360]

Here are 20 signs often associated with sociopathy:
1. Lack of Empathy: Difficulty understanding or sharing the feelings of others.
2. Manipulative Behavior: Using charm, charisma, or deceit to control or exploit others.
3. Superficial Charm: A tendency to appear engaging and likable on the surface, but lacking genuine warmth or connection.
4. Grandiose Sense of Self: An inflated sense of self-importance and entitlement.
5. Impulsivity: Acting without thinking, often leading to reckless decisions.
6. Irresponsibility: A pattern of failing to fulfill obligations, such as work or financial responsibilities.
7. Deceitfulness: Lying, conning, and using aliases to gain personal profit or pleasure.
8. Lack of Remorse or Guilt: Not feeling sorry for actions that harm others.
9. Irritability and Aggression: Easily angered and prone to physical altercations or violence.
10. Recklessness: Disregarding safety and engaging in risky behaviors.
11. Callousness: Showing a lack of concern for the suffering of others.
12. Parasitic Lifestyle: Dependence on others for financial or emotional support.
13. Poor Behavioral Controls: Difficulty managing impulses and emotions.
14. Criminal Behavior: Engaging in illegal activities, often repeatedly.
15. Shallow Emotional Range: Limited capacity to experience and express emotions.
16. Sensation Seeking: A need for stimulation and a tendency to engage in risky activities.
17. Pathological Lying: Habitual lying, often without a clear purpose.
18. Difficulty Forming Relationships: Struggling to establish and maintain healthy, meaningful relationships.
19. Disregard for Social Norms: Ignoring rules, laws, and social expectations.
20. Manipulation of Others: Using subtle or overt tactics to control or exploit others.


---------------------------------------------

Most obviously True for Trump as far as I can tell - #2 , 4, 7, 20

1. Much of the world has this to a degree. So many undeveloped people who cant even perceive from another's shoes.

3. Yes, but there is much evidence of him doing kind acts for strangers and being well liked in celebrity circles. I doubt its all fake.

5. Not so much
6. NO
8. Im sure to some degree, but not always.
9. He is a typical blunt New yorker, not sure how much of a hot head he was back in the day.
10 & 11. Hard to know these things from afar, but doesnt seem to have these to a sociopathic degree.
12. NO
13. I suppose, but factoring in the arrogance of power and New Yorker thing, not sure its sociopathic degree.
14. Sure, but this is rampant for people of power are most of them sociopaths?
15. Lots of men are heady and tough guys. Isnt this common.
16. We are gemini's, We need a lot of stimulating and excitement too :) Not sure he needs risky danger.
17. No, his lying is very strategic. Unnecessary lying is stupid.
18. Not sure, but I do think his kids love him , so i dont think its an extreme case. Being busy and famous could mean having a million superficial relationships but few to no deep ones.
19. Maybe as much as powerful people do, but i dont see anything crazy here.



I don't know. I think power, fame etc. tends to make people more socio/pyschopathic, but its hard to tell who is truly that if being in that environment, where some degree of sociopathy is the norm. And im no shrink to make diagnoses.

Can we look at harmful actions as prez? Problem is that I dont know the kinds of stresses, threats and powers leaders are up against. Like black magicians, ET's and interdimensional A-holes. I think of it like the TV series "Colony". ETs arrive and drop down walls around LA and enslave the residents. Then hire those in power to fill ranks and keep the slaves in check.

A good person could accept one of those jobs to selfishly make their life easier. And during their term they do some horrible things to the people, because they are overwhelmed by powers above them. Meanwhile, some of them are doing what they can to resist or throw monkey wrenches to try and overthrow those in power.

Not making excuses for Trump or pretending to know he intends good. But Reagan seemed like an overall kinder and well mannered person than Trump, yet he did essentially nothing to the overall momentum of these hidden powers and their ways.
He got shot at as well and seemed to have made small attempts to resist them. I dont know the history of 1980-1988 well, but were any of his actions as prez very harmful, so i can label him a sociopath, cuz no good person would have let it happen?

Anyone who thinks the change toward better ways is going to be some leader going in there and doing 100% loving acts is just impossible. Its frustrating but I can't condemn a leader from individual bad actions, since I dont know how controlled leaders are and impossible their situation. And that makes us look like we are making excuses for someone with bad intent. Yet, its equally annoying to jump on every bad actions as proof that a leader is a bad actor. Unfortunately, it'll likely take years for us to know.

[onawah]

It seems clear to me that not only does power corrupt, but that even those who start out working with good intentions and ideals in the present System either become corrupted or more or less ineffective.
The whole design is flawed and until humanity evolves enough to create a good one, or perhaps a new one is designed and implemented and taught to humanity by a more highly evolved and experienced race, that will continue to be the case.
(Or would that be breaking the policy of "non-interference"?)
What seems to be the present System (at least on paper) is a deception, and not what is really controlling the planet, while it should be very obvious by now that those who seem to be leaders are not really the ones holding the strings.
Was the present System actually designed by a regressive ET race that has been operating it from behind the scenes all along as Archons, inhabiting human bodies but only appearing to be human, implementing a System that was never in the best interests of humanity or the planet itself?
It's curious how this forum has so many subjects of discussion compartmentalized, and though it ventures into subjects like Ufology, ET Contact and "the Unexplained", there's not very much integration of those kinds of subjects with subjects like News and Current Events.
There is more integration in the Conspiracy Research threads, but so much of the time any real crossover is sort of isolated like a virus, ridiculed or just ignored.
It's like disengaged multiple personalities in an individual that are unable to communicate to each other, only on the scale of a whole community.
The discussions go around and around in circles, but generally agreed upon conclusions are rare and take a very long time in coming, if ever, and then very often it just starts all over again from the beginning.
I think some kind of new life needs to be injected before the forum gets bogged down again with a bunch of shills/disinfo agents, which seems to be the repeating pattern.
Or is it just an ongoing, self-perpetuating "process", like the current System?



Anyone who thinks the change toward better ways is going to be some leader going in there and doing 100% loving acts is just impossible. Its frustrating but I can't condemn a leader from individual bad actions, since I dont know how controlled leaders are and impossible their situation. And that makes us look like we are making excuses for someone with bad intent. Yet, its equally annoying to jump on every bad actions as proof that a leader is a bad actor. Unfortunately, it'll likely take years for us to know.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Onawah, what you are describing is also part of the control grid.

We are continually called upon to make decisions based on incomplete, missing and often erroneous data. Each person has to contend with their own demons and this dynamic skews any possible consensus towards dysfunctional conclusions. Then there is the problem of polarizing topics designed to, well, polarize. We are broken into small splinter groups, each group weighing data with conflicting emphasis depending on their affiliations.

In the end we are left with our own counsel, and like the lawyer who defends themselves in court, we have a fool for a client.

Since we have little to no effect on the outcome of many global or even often local affairs, it is surprising how engaged many of us still are, with more coming on board every day.

And as the world veers further and further afield of any sort of sane and peaceful co-existence, and while the authorities attempt to convince us of one falsehood after another, the resulting chaos separates us even more from our cohorts and peers.

The system is designed to create this division and no amount of mental contortions or data or even proof will disturb the trend towards dystopia.

These are mid-level arguments, however.

They try and make sense of the world from within the system. As if the answer can be found by reduction - just remove the obvious lie(s). But the entire thing is part of the control grid, including the mental gymnastics.

Given things as they are, as we think we know them to be, there is no escape.

But if you understand the basis of the overarching issue, which is the actual topical (gestalt-encompassing) question, the answer comes clearly into focus.


It is a question of energy. It has always been so. And the one with access to the greatest amount of energy is the winner, and gets to choose the game.

Even with our nuclear bombs, we are not even close to that superiority.

With energy comes control, if that is the game that is chosen.
Abundance of energy leads to increasing technological advancement.

Technology is magic to the un-initiated.


The control grid is a technological structure, not only an informational and monetary one. It is invisible to us because it is so far advanced that we cannot recognize its existence.

Some claim it's the extra-terrestrials.
Some say it's the Illuminati.
Some believe it is God.

Some one has access to unlimited power and is using it to control this world.
The jury is still out on whether it is for good or for ill.

[Raskolnikov]

like the lawyer who defends themselves in court, we have a fool for a client.

That's brilliant, Ernie, you had me rolling.


Technology is magic to the un-initiated.

And that's well said and an excellent point as well. I remember reading in a few places how the technological advances "Trumped" the spiritual progress in Atlantis and led to its inevitable demise. It does oddly feel like a race between the spiritual and the technological at the moment. A new study from MIT shows ChatGPT use linked to mental decline. Go figure. Makes sense since you're not using your own mental faculties anymore, hence the decline.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5360220-chatgpt-use-linked-to-cognitive-decline-mit-research/

Enjoying (considering the depressing subject matter) and agreeing with the recent posts, especially this one:




I rote to Dennis privately a couple of days ago and told him he had been 100% right. :)


100% right about what? Your lunchbox, sociopath de jour, or unicorn urine?:)#2. :)

[onawah]

There is certainly no lack of cognitive dissonance now, a term which keeps popping up more and more.
I've found it very interesting that in psychic Gigi Young's talks, she has been referring frequently to the idea (which I think she is referencing from Theosophical or Anthroposophical work as she is well grounded in those schools of thought) that in Ages when the Masculine principle is predominant, the danger is that technology will run amuck and destroy civilization as it apparently did in Atlantis.
Whereas when the Feminine principle is predominant (which may actually seem like an impossibility at this point in our dangerously technologically advanced era) Nature is valued above all else, and presumably the danger is that little technological progress can be made.
(See: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gigi+young )
Hopefully the next Age will finally reach an amenable balance of both, where cooperation and competition can work together, and safety will be a prerequisite for all technology.

[Merkaba360]

Onawah:
Sounds like Gigi is saying the Native Americans were a bunch of girls :chuckle:

Putting all importance on nature outside themselves and not finding their full capabilities within. Then the men showed up and of course dominated by force and intellectual innovation/ingenuity.

They did some parts of life very well, for many millenia, but not much motivation to change? Then the competition came along. Was that a kind of karma. Sit still and live the same way over and over until power comes and forces you to change.

Ernie: Im also pondering another part of 'divide' without the conquer. Is there a fork in the evolutionary road . graduation from this level of "choice". Would make sense for us to all choose a path. Then, is there a natural divide thats supposed to happen?

It reminds me of homeless mentally ill or whatever. that's a huge divide that I dont know how to deal with? Am I supposed to get close to those people and try to unite while risking getting stabbed or some horror movie occurring from their delusions? I dont know how to deal with such lost people. Maybe if I was more powerful such a task would be easier.

In a similar way there are people with some seriously delusional belief systems that are light years from my views. Is it bad I dont really want to have anything to do with these people. I could have some casual short interactions. But bonding long term with them would cause all kinds of problems. We are separated by a vast distance of consciousness. Is that leading us to different worlds, is that division ok?

I dont know if the whole world is supposed to come together as the delusion lifts or are we being sorted and drifting away from those going down the other forked path.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Merkaba, I do not believe in evolution, only natural selection and adaptation.

The ones you talk of, for the most part, are screaming for help and love. How can you not feel for their plight?
At the height of my spiritual transformation I did just what you say would be hard for yourself.
I saved my wife from exactly that life - there, the secret is out.

The price I paid? I lost everything in the years that followed attempting to keep her out of trouble. I lost my family, my friends, my career, my money. But I saved her life and she changed her habits and broke free of her addictions. She changed so radically that she even joined the Catholic church and received all the sacraments before she passed.
Over the years I wondered why do I do it? But the answer was always, I love her unconditionally.
I couldn't imagine life without her.
And now here I am, without her...

I do not regret my choice. It feels like the most authentic thing I've done with this life.
I miss her so much.

[AutumnW]

Wow! What an outstanding first post Dennis. As for the political ultra right forum tendencies, I cannot agree more.

No discussion allowed when it is related to Trump. Complete brain washing of many to a fanatic level. No real intelligent critical thinking regarding Trump and his oligarchs. It is about banned on this forum.

The guy and his family have made billions personnally on our back within 5 month and I still hear lets wait and see

He destroyed the US in 5 months!! Nobody in the world want to trust the US anymore. You do not have the real news, it is more controled than ever.

By the way, Elon Musk finally got his black eye, have you noticed.

As for Trump, my real life specialty is Cluster B personnalities as described in DSM-5. I write on the topic and train corporate managers to handle the bastards.

Trump ticks absolutely all the cases of psychopathy with a thread of comorbidity huge vengeful pervert narcissism too.

USA is heading straight towards dictatorship head first with a 105 IQ, at the most, president.

And Lunaflore, Dennis post does not divide, it is an alarm bell. And no it is not fashion to hate the US. This is thinking based on ignorance. Nobody worlwide wants what is happening in and to the US. The senile Biden and the more corrupt and way less intelligent Trump. Wake up America.

The consequences are felt worldwide, right now, and US is soon to follow.

F.. read about Germany in 1930-32, read read read history. America do not remain ignorant. Read about Staline! Read!

Hi Flash. Absolutely! Every word.

Americans who approach immigrants with the philosophy that they should just stay home, not try to escape to other countries, ignore the reality that it is US backed war that pushes these people out of their own countries to begin with. And if they don't like that reality, and think it's become merely "fashionable" to question the US, too bad! Logic is always fashionable.

I am sick to death of ignoramuses who never read outside of their tiny social media sphere. Do they ever read a book, magazine article even on the subjects they hold forth about? They've become neo-Nazis. They should just come out and flatly declare, "I only like people who are like me, culturally and preferably white."

Trump is most definitely a sociopath. He's played to the worst impulses of those under a lot of work and personal pressure who have to live in what has become a hideous country.

[onawah]

I have no idea what you are referring to re Gigi and Native Americans. Please elucidate.
It's tragic how much has been covered up about how spiritually advanced many Native Americans were, particularly the shamans.
I know I have had past lives as a Native American, and every time I have been present during a Native American ritual, waves of nostalgia wash over me and tears flood my eyes for the loss of that precious connection with Nature that so few Americans have today.
I think it's very similar to how Taoism has been sidelined, and other very esoteric, Nature-connected traditions that have been paths through which humankind has discovered their Oneness and connection directly to the ALL.
That kind of Experiencing will never come through technology or space travel.

Onawah:
Sounds like Gigi is saying the Native Americans were a bunch of girls :chuckle:

[Mike]

Wow! What an outstanding first post Dennis. As for the political ultra right forum tendencies, I cannot agree more.

No discussion allowed when it is related to Trump. Complete brain washing of many to a fanatic level. No real intelligent critical thinking regarding Trump and his oligarchs. It is about banned on this forum.

The guy and his family have made billions personnally on our back within 5 month and I still hear lets wait and see

He destroyed the US in 5 months!! Nobody in the world want to trust the US anymore. You do not have the real news, it is more controled than ever.

By the way, Elon Musk finally got his black eye, have you noticed.

As for Trump, my real life specialty is Cluster B personnalities as described in DSM-5. I write on the topic and train corporate managers to handle the bastards.

Trump ticks absolutely all the cases of psychopathy with a thread of comorbidity huge vengeful pervert narcissism too.

USA is heading straight towards dictatorship head first with a 105 IQ, at the most, president.

And Lunaflore, Dennis post does not divide, it is an alarm bell. And no it is not fashion to hate the US. This is thinking based on ignorance. Nobody worlwide wants what is happening in and to the US. The senile Biden and the more corrupt and way less intelligent Trump. Wake up America.

The consequences are felt worldwide, right now, and US is soon to follow.

F.. read about Germany in 1930-32, read read read history. America do not remain ignorant. Read about Staline! Read!

Hi Flash. Absolutely! Every word.

Americans who approach immigrants with the philosophy that they should just stay home, not try to escape to other countries, ignore the reality that it is US backed war that pushes these people out of their own countries to begin with. And if they don't like that reality, and think it's become merely "fashionable" to question the US, too bad! Logic is always fashionable.

I am sick to death of ignoramuses who never read outside of their tiny social media sphere. Do they ever read a book, magazine article even on the subjects they hold forth about? They've become neo-Nazis. They should just come out and flatly declare, "I only like people who are like me, culturally and preferably white."

Trump is most definitely a sociopath. He's played to the worst impulses of those under a lot of work and personal pressure who have to live in what has become a hideous country.


Actually, most people do prefer to be around people in their own culture and color, including all those immigrants you speak of. There are very basic reasons for this that don't involve racism or Nazism, but you're far too emotional and ideologically addled to acknowledge them. And that's your main problem - you can't conceive of a world in which people who prefer these things are anything other than Nazis, racists, or xenophobes. You're looking at the world thru a straw, and you imagine you're clever.

Show me the culture that wants to be supplanted by another culture! Where are these mystery cultures? Trot them out!:)

Everyone here can point to someone they know from another culture or race and say, so and so is a fantastic guy or gal, I don't care if they're Muslim or whatever. I can too. Most people are fundamentally good. Personal relationships like that can thrive, but Muslim immigration- at scale - does not work. Their culture is just fundamentally different. You're being dishonest if you don't acknowledge that, and you know that.

Diversity is not a strength; the entire world is a testimony to that! That's why there's so much damn conflict. Unity is the priority all countries should have, not diversity. That doesn't mean there can't be some cultural mix, but not so much that it waters down the dominant culture's values. That's not racism or Nazism, it's just basic common sense and an instinct for preservation.

[AutumnW]

My post was about those who complain about immigrants forced to flee war torn wastelands. Wars that the US often starts.


Muslims are not taking over your country.

[AutumnW]

Found this. Germaine to our back and forth, Mike.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/07/26/demographic-portrait-of-muslim-americans/

And, I agree with you that there are all kinds of problems with rapid immigration and diversity isn't necessarily a strength. It depends on the situation, the economy, job market, educational opportunities, etc...

I'd like to know if you've had any bad situations with Muslim neighbours? Or is it something you have heard about but not experienced.

Also, as far as who I'd like as a next door neighbor? I don't want anyone of any radical form of Abrahamic religion living next door to me. And I'd prefer not to have the toxically positive spiritual types either, to be honest.

[Mike]

My post was about those who complain about immigrants forced to flee war torn wastelands. Wars that the US often starts.


Muslims are not taking over your country.


If I were them I would try and do the same exact thing. I understand and empathize with it. But you just can't let people in willy-nilly, even if you're of the belief that we somehow owe them because of our wars. If making amends involves destroying your own country, I'm gonna have to pass on that.

But most are not fleeing war torn countries. Most are just seeking out a better life, or have other (sometimes sinister) motivations. The Chinese nationals coming to the U.S. aren't leaving a war torn country. Nor are the Mexicans or Indians. And those are the top 3 countries of origin for immigration to the U.S. (according to A.I. anyway).

You're right, Muslims are not invading the U.S. I already acknowledged that!:) I thank Trump for that and all his wonderful work on the southern border. If that's sociopathic leadership, give me more of that!

It's the rest of the world who are being flooded with Muslim immigrants. To answer your question, I've never had any issues with Muslim people personally. None that I can remember anyway.

Before I say anything else, you know I have great affection for you, and I hope we can chat moving forward without too much tension:heart: I know we're gonna cross swords, but I value you as a friend. Sorry for any aggression on my part:flower:

Moving on...
My first exposure to unchecked immigration was my 2 years spent in California. The Spanish language is lovely and beautifully cadenced, but by the time I left California I decided I'd be a happy man if I never had to hear another Spanish word for the rest of my life LOL. It was all novel and great at first, don't get me wrong. I loved exploring this new culture and the all the great food, and then I realized about 2 months in that Mexican cuisine is just one long variation of the taco. Whether it's a burrito, a wrap, a quesadilla, or enchilada...it's really just a taco in a different form. I got sick of it. I wanted burgers and pizza again. I'm American, what can I say?

I never had any issues with the Mexican people; I had more issues with the white people actually. That was just as much of a culture shock coming from the east coast. The straight brim hat, Volcom t-shirt wearing, heavily tattoo'd white guys...I can't relate to them at all. But they were actually the minority, along with me. And over time I found it tiresome, I'll admit. Does that make me racist? I hope not. I didn't hate the Mexicans or feel superior; I didn't want to toss them in camps or anything or wipe them off the earth. I hung out with them and drank their beer and ate their food and had good times. It was just a different culture, and over time it wore me out. And I grew to resent it a little, because after all this is the U.S., not Mexico, and I wouldn't dream of moving to Mexico and trying to set up a USA 2.0 there, just out of basic respect.

[Raskolnikov]

I honestly have to agree with you both. AutumnW, I think you're spot on about how America has created a lot of this immigration problem, here I speak of foreign entanglements ala the CIA funded by the military complex weapons manufacturing dollars, a means to an end perhaps? Really akin to the pharma scam - the sick make paying customers vs. enemies are big business. And yet the other side of that immigration coin lands in Mike's favor - Biden flew in countless sleeper cell military men, not to mention allowed a lot of those angry that the US bombed their brother or mother or entire village. We see what this can do in other countries like Ireland, France, the UK, Sweden... This is a definite threat and we have no idea where they are or how many. But let's get to the point:


Moving on...
My first exposure to unchecked immigration was my 2 years spent in California. The Spanish language is lovely and beautifully cadenced, but by the time I left California I decided I'd be a happy man if I never had to hear another Spanish word for the rest of my life LOL. It was all novel and great at first, don't get me wrong. I loved exploring this new culture and the all the great food, and then I realized about 2 months in that Mexican cuisine is just one long variation of the taco. Whether it's a burrito, a wrap, a quesadilla, or enchilada...it's really just a taco in a different form. I got sick of it. I wanted burgers and pizza again. I'm American, what can I say?

I never had any issues with the Mexican people; I had more issues with the white people actually. That was just as much of a culture shock coming from the east coast. The straight brim hat, Volcom t-shirt wearing, heavily tattoo'd white guys...I can't relate to them at all. But they were actually the minority, along with me. And over time I found it tiresome, I'll admit. Does that make me racist? I hope not. I didn't hate the Mexicans or feel superior; I didn't want to toss them in camps or anything or wipe them off the earth. I hung out with them and drank their beer and ate their food and had good times. It was just a different culture, and over time it wore me out. And I grew to resent it a little, because after all this is the U.S., not Mexico, and I wouldn't dream of moving to Mexico and trying to set up a USA 2.0 there, just out of basic respect.

How you gonna dis the taco? To be fair, I rarely ever ate tacos, but grew up in socal absolutely loving ALL the rest. And still do. My god man, we had a Mexican restaurant at 15 years of age that would serve us pitchers of beer and a breakfast special of rice, beans, eggs and flour or corn tortillas with all the chips and salsa you could eat for $1.75. Do you know how absolutely golden that is to a group of teenagers? We felt like kings, the irony runs deep. God bless the Mexicans. I actually grew up down there in a heavily hispanic neighborhood, all good till puberty hit, then the gang element came into play and things changed quickly, and yes, races kept to themselves. It was very odd at 13 watching good friends that I'd gone through grade school with suddenly riding around in low rider cars and completely ignoring you when you tried to say hi. But honestly, that's just testosterone and being a teenager, like the greasers and socs in "The Outsiders," kids just form social groups and I never held it against them. And I don't think pizza is actually American btw. Alright, seeing this is all of central importance to this thread, I just thought I'd air my opinion on the matter. Long live the taco!

[Merkaba360]

Merkaba, I do not believe in evolution, only natural selection and adaptation.

The ones you talk of, for the most part, are screaming for help and love. How can you not feel for their plight?
At the height of my spiritual transformation I did just what you say would be hard for yourself.
I saved my wife from exactly that life - there, the secret is out.

The price I paid? I lost everything in the years that followed attempting to keep her out of trouble. I lost my family, my friends, my career, my money. But I saved her life and she changed her habits and broke free of her addictions. She changed so radically that she even joined the Catholic church and received all the sacraments before she passed.
Over the years I wondered why do I do it? But the answer was always, I love her unconditionally.
I couldn't imagine life without her.
And now here I am, without her...

I do not regret my choice. It feels like the most authentic thing I've done with this life.
I miss her so much.


The word "evolution" comes from the Latin "evolutio," meaning "unrolling like a scroll". It was initially used to describe the opening or unfolding of something, like a rolled-up document.

Before Darwin, the word "evolve" generally meant a process of unfolding, development, or growth, often in a pre-determined way. It was used in various fields like medicine, mathematics, and general language to describe a process of opening, revealing, or developing from a simpler to a more complex state. In the context of biology, it was primarily used in embryology to describe the development of an individual organism from a seed or embryo.

Im guessing u mean darwinian evolution? Cuz evolve/evolution has nothing to do with Darwin and they must say "darwinian evolution" if thats what they mean, cuz they can't hijack the word evolution (unfolding process of change)

Not sure how you are interpreting that i dont feel for others plight. Saving your wife is WAY different then trying to save a dangerous mentally ill homeless person. Its similar to trying to save a true psychopath, the experts agree that we have no means to fix that at this time. We need more energy tech to balance the chakras and remove the filters of delusion or something. Mushrooms is probably the best chance we got for that as far as i know.

Glad to hear you won that battle. A great accomplishment indeed.

Don Juan Matus said something like , 'only a formless being can see whats what.' In other words you need to "lose your human form" in order to discern which hobo needs help and which needs to continue to learn the hard way. Perhaps our intuition can sometimes guide us non-formless to make the right choice, but sometimes it probably folly and our ego choosing.

Our ignorance often wants others to be like us. So good people generally want to help the homeless. Since I dont have the power of clear seeing yet, of course I usually would err on the side of helping.

But in my post im more referring to the fact that some are beyond help and some dont want it and look to be heading another path and choose to stay in the level of ignorance.

Im just pointing out that all division we are seeing may not be "divide and conquer". Some are seeing that "evolution" is naturally creating a split. And thus, maybe some divide is more of sorting consciousness out.

Spending decades wanting to "wake people up", i've learned to help what i call 'borderline people'. People who show some signs of being ready to start breaking out of the matrix. Any attempts ive made on people who are far from ready was complete folly on my part.

[Mike]

I honestly have to agree with you both. AutumnW, I think you're spot on about how America has created a lot of this immigration problem, here I speak of foreign entanglements ala the CIA funded by the military complex weapons manufacturing dollars, a means to an end perhaps? Really akin to the pharma scam - the sick make paying customers vs. enemies are big business. And yet the other side of that immigration coin lands in Mike's favor - Biden flew in countless sleeper cell military men, not to mention allowed a lot of those angry that the US bombed their brother or mother or entire village. We see what this can do in other countries like Ireland, France, the UK, Sweden... This is a definite threat and we have no idea where they are or how many. But let's get to the point:


Moving on...
My first exposure to unchecked immigration was my 2 years spent in California. The Spanish language is lovely and beautifully cadenced, but by the time I left California I decided I'd be a happy man if I never had to hear another Spanish word for the rest of my life LOL. It was all novel and great at first, don't get me wrong. I loved exploring this new culture and the all the great food, and then I realized about 2 months in that Mexican cuisine is just one long variation of the taco. Whether it's a burrito, a wrap, a quesadilla, or enchilada...it's really just a taco in a different form. I got sick of it. I wanted burgers and pizza again. I'm American, what can I say?

I never had any issues with the Mexican people; I had more issues with the white people actually. That was just as much of a culture shock coming from the east coast. The straight brim hat, Volcom t-shirt wearing, heavily tattoo'd white guys...I can't relate to them at all. But they were actually the minority, along with me. And over time I found it tiresome, I'll admit. Does that make me racist? I hope not. I didn't hate the Mexicans or feel superior; I didn't want to toss them in camps or anything or wipe them off the earth. I hung out with them and drank their beer and ate their food and had good times. It was just a different culture, and over time it wore me out. And I grew to resent it a little, because after all this is the U.S., not Mexico, and I wouldn't dream of moving to Mexico and trying to set up a USA 2.0 there, just out of basic respect.

How you gonna dis the taco? To be fair, I rarely ever ate tacos, but grew up in socal absolutely loving ALL the rest. And still do. My god man, we had a Mexican restaurant at 15 years of age that would serve us pitchers of beer and a breakfast special of rice, beans, eggs and flour or corn tortillas with all the chips and salsa you could eat for $1.75. Do you know how absolutely golden that is to a group of teenagers? We felt like kings, the irony runs deep. God bless the Mexicans. I actually grew up down there in a heavily hispanic neighborhood, all good till puberty hit, then the gang element came into play and things changed quickly, and yes, races kept to themselves. It was very odd at 13 watching good friends that I'd gone through grade school with suddenly riding around in low rider cars and completely ignoring you when you tried to say hi. But honestly, that's just testosterone and being a teenager, like the greasers and socs in "The Outsiders," kids just form social groups and I never held it against them. And I don't think pizza is actually American btw. Alright, seeing this is all of central importance to this thread, I just thought I'd air my opinion on the matter. Long live the taco!


Oh dude, long live the taco!:thumbsup: I'm with ya there. And long live the burrito, enchilada, and quesadilla too while we're at it. I just ate a quesadilla about an hour ago. Tijuana Flats..decent place.

I like all those things. I just got sick of them while living in California all those years ago.

Ever been to Disney World? They have some area there, something like 'Eat Around The World' or something like this, where you can sample culinary delights (and sometimes disasters) from around the world. It's very cool. But maybe the best part about it is that you can walk out and be in America again and eat all the stuff you're used to. In other words, you're not stuck there. And I felt stuck in California. At the end of my time there it felt suffocating. Not just because of the food obviously; the food was just kind of a metaphor for the entire culture.

Florida is kind of like California lite. Maybe it's because I'm so tan, but people will approach me and begin speaking Spanish, which was kind of amusing at first. But that's kind of par for the course. You go anywhere - a gym, grocery store, work, you name it - and people everywhere are jabbering away in Spanish. I don't think it's a good thing. And it's not because I dislike the Spanish language or because I dislike the Mexican culture, but because I like the English language and the American culture more, and I believe it should be dominant everywhere (in America).

A country isn't a country at all without 4 vital elements:

1) shared values
2) agreed upon laws
3) a shared language
4) borders

If I were king, one of the first things I'd do is rip all the Spanish signage down..from traffic signs to grocery store signs to safety notices etc. I'd even outlaw Spanish instructions for technical gadgets or whatever. And then I'd implement a fine for anyone speaking Spanish in public (no I wouldn't :)).. but I'm serious about the signage. Not to be an asshole, but to encourage assimilation. If people aren't forced out of their comfort zones, most of the time they ain't leaving em. Me included.

The very first thing anyone should do when immigrating to another country is learn the language there, and use it. From a practical standpoint of course, but maybe just as important a respect standpoint. That's just showing a baseline level of respect for the people there.

[Strat]

A country isn't a country at all without 4 vital elements:

1) shared values


So there's lots I want to say but I want to make sure I understand you because I try to avoid making assumptions about people.

I was trying to find it but somewhere you wrote how you want to preserve western values. Right? Could you elaborate on these values? USA's culture is actually something I'm ashamed of and I am often thinking on leaving the country if I'm going to start a family with my girl. But maybe we're talking two different things when I say culture and you say values so that's why I'd like to get your thoughts on it before I write anything.

One thing I agree with you is that we should help our people before thinking about helping others. I think it's only logical (it's somewhat Biblical too but I don't base my decisions off of the Bible) to first help yourself, then your family, then move on from there whether it's country, community or w/e. That's in regards to USA spending our tax dollars. On a personal level my charity work/donations don't go to USA but that's a different topic altogether.

[Mike]

A country isn't a country at all without 4 vital elements:

1) shared values


So there's lots I want to say but I want to make sure I understand you because I try to avoid making assumptions about people.

I was trying to find it but somewhere you wrote how you want to preserve western values. Right? Could you elaborate on these values? USA's culture is actually something I'm ashamed of and I am often thinking on leaving the country if I'm going to start a family with my girl. But maybe we're talking two different things when I say culture and you say values so that's why I'd like to get your thoughts on it before I write anything.

One thing I agree with you is that we should help our people before thinking about helping others. I think it's only logical (it's somewhat Biblical too but I don't base my decisions off of the Bible) to first help yourself, then your family, then move on from there whether it's country, community or w/e. That's in regards to USA spending our tax dollars. On a personal level my charity work/donations don't go to USA but that's a different topic altogether.

hey Strat, happy to answer all that. But I think I can answer it more productively if you answer just a couple quick questions first: What exactly is it about US culture that you're ashamed of? And where would you prefer to move to instead?

I promise I'm not gonna sh!t on you or anything, no matter how you answer. I just think I can answer better if I you explain a little

[AutumnW]

My post was about those who complain about immigrants forced to flee war torn wastelands. Wars that the US often starts.


Muslims are not taking over your country.


If I were them I would try and do the same exact thing. I understand and empathize with it. But you just can't let people in willy-nilly, even if you're of the belief that we somehow owe them because of our wars. If making amends involves destroying your own country, I'm gonna have to pass on that.

But most are not fleeing war torn countries. Most are just seeking out a better life, or have other (sometimes sinister) motivations. The Chinese nationals coming to the U.S. aren't leaving a war torn country. Nor are the Mexicans or Indians. And those are the top 3 countries of origin for immigration to the U.S. (according to A.I. anyway).

You're right, Muslims are not invading the U.S. I already acknowledged that!:) I thank Trump for that and all his wonderful work on the southern border. If that's sociopathic leadership, give me more of that!

It's the rest of the world who are being flooded with Muslim immigrants. To answer your question, I've never had any issues with Muslim people personally. None that I can remember anyway.

Before I say anything else, you know I have great affection for you, and I hope we can chat moving forward without too much tension:heart: I know we're gonna cross swords, but I value you as a friend. Sorry for any aggression on my part:flower:

Moving on...
My first exposure to unchecked immigration was my 2 years spent in California. The Spanish language is lovely and beautifully cadenced, but by the time I left California I decided I'd be a happy man if I never had to hear another Spanish word for the rest of my life LOL. It was all novel and great at first, don't get me wrong. I loved exploring this new culture and the all the great food, and then I realized about 2 months in that Mexican cuisine is just one long variation of the taco. Whether it's a burrito, a wrap, a quesadilla, or enchilada...it's really just a taco in a different form. I got sick of it. I wanted burgers and pizza again. I'm American, what can I say?

I never had any issues with the Mexican people; I had more issues with the white people actually. That was just as much of a culture shock coming from the east coast. The straight brim hat, Volcom t-shirt wearing, heavily tattoo'd white guys...I can't relate to them at all. But they were actually the minority, along with me. And over time I found it tiresome, I'll admit. Does that make me racist? I hope not. I didn't hate the Mexicans or feel superior; I didn't want to toss them in camps or anything or wipe them off the earth. I hung out with them and drank their beer and ate their food and had good times. It was just a different culture, and over time it wore me out. And I grew to resent it a little, because after all this is the U.S., not Mexico, and I wouldn't dream of moving to Mexico and trying to set up a USA 2.0 there, just out of basic respect.

Thanks for this Mike.

Your honest observations help me to understand MAGA better. I empathize with a lot of sentiments of those who are fed up with society in general, and want a strong man to straighten things out. I just wish, for example, that due process was followed to protect all members of the US, from major mistakes that can be made without it.

As far as Western values go...identity politics has, to a point, trashed the idea of equality of worth and afforded special status to small subgroups.

Western business interests and politicans went overboard on this one. It afforded them the opportunity to divert focus from existential issues we all have to deal with. Like oligarchic control of real estate that's driven rents through the roof.


I can live without Mexican food. It's a way of getting cheap protein and that's likely why it is the way it is! Buenos Dios!

[Strat]

hey Strat, happy to answer all that. But I think I can answer it more productively if you answer just a couple quick questions first: What exactly is it about US culture that you're ashamed of? And where would you prefer to move to instead?


I think it's more appropriate if you answer first. I will say to the second question you asked me I don't have anything set in stone although I think I have it narrowed down to a few places. And the appeal isn't the countries themselves, their laws, their religion(s) or anything like that. Those are often worse than USA, some by far and infrastructure blows compared to USA. It's the behavior of the people and their mindset that I can appreciate. So like the 'sum mindset' of all the people in these countries. Does that make sense?

I will give you a little more context regarding my original question if it helps: When you say 'western values' I am not sure what that is, maybe that's a dumb statement but I really don't know. Like different religions promote different values, families tend to have different values, my specific family has certain values and maybe these are things we share in common that you wish to promote but again I'm not sure what you're getting at. This is why I kinda translate values to culture in this context, because US culture is something you can find in every state.

That's all, just wanted your definition of values. :handshake:


I promise I'm not gonna sh!t on you or anything, no matter how you answer. I just think I can answer better if I you explain a little

God bless you sir. I promise not to call you boss man. :laugh:

[Mike]

hey Strat, happy to answer all that. But I think I can answer it more productively if you answer just a couple quick questions first: What exactly is it about US culture that you're ashamed of? And where would you prefer to move to instead?


I think it's more appropriate if you answer first. I will say to the second question you asked me I don't have anything set in stone although I think I have it narrowed down to a few places. And the appeal isn't the countries themselves, their laws, their religion(s) or anything like that. Those are often worse than USA, some by far and infrastructure blows compared to USA. It's the behavior of the people and their mindset that I can appreciate. So like the 'sum mindset' of all the people in these countries. Does that make sense?

I will give you a little more context regarding my original question if it helps: When you say 'western values' I am not sure what that is, maybe that's a dumb statement but I really don't know. Like different religions promote different values, families tend to have different values, my specific family has certain values and maybe these are things we share in common that you wish to promote but again I'm not sure what you're getting at. This is why I kinda translate values to culture in this context, because US culture is something you can find in every state.

That's all, just wanted your definition of values. :handshake:


I promise I'm not gonna sh!t on you or anything, no matter how you answer. I just think I can answer better if I you explain a little

God bless you sir. I promise not to call you boss man. :laugh:

Gotcha. The country was founded on enlightenment values, classical liberal values, and Judeo-Christian values. The founding documents are a mishmash of these things. These are some very basic explanations:

Enlightenment values: Enlightenment values emphasize reason, individualism, and progress, challenging traditional authority and promoting concepts like liberty, toleration, and constitutional government.

Classical liberal values: Classical liberalism emphasizes individual freedom, limited government, and free markets. It prioritizes individual rights, including property rights, and advocates for a constitutional government with checks and balances to prevent the concentration of power. Classical liberals also value free speech, religious toleration, and mutual cooperation among individuals

Judeo-Christian values: one nation, under God etc.

What I was wondering when you expressed a sense of shame about the country was: Are you talking about the founding era? The treatment of the Native Americans? Or something like slavery?

Or are you talking about something more current?

[onawah]

The report following from Judicial Watch is just one minor example of what is so concerning about illegal aliens in the US.
...Something which I've been concerned about ever since all the reports from Europe started 5 years or so ago about the many (!!!) unprovoked rapes and attacks on European women once the aliens began arriving there in droves from the Middle East.
(To many Middle Eastern males, a woman or adolescent girl simply appearing in public unveiled can be a provoking signal.
Suddenly finding themselves living in a largely Christian nation with different values apparently had little effect on their actions, and that may have simply been among the most evident outcomes.
Bold letters my emphasis. )

Dozens of Illegal Aliens Working at Meat Processing Plant with Stolen IDs Screened with E-Verify
6/25/25
https://www.judicialwatch.org/stolen-ids-screened-e-verify/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=corruption+chronicles&utm_term=members
"Years after Judicial Watch reported (https://www.judicialwatch.org/dhss-e-verify-authorizes-thousands-of-illegal-immigrants-to-work-in-u-s/ ) ...that the government’s system to verify if employees are authorized to work legally in the United States approved hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, federal authorities have uncovered widespread identity theft at a meat processing plant that used the defective tool to screen 100% of its staff. A recent Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) worksite enforcement operation at Glenn Valley Foods in Omaha, Nebraska busted over 70 illegal aliens who were using stolen Social Security numbers and identities to unlawfully obtain wages, health benefits and employment authorization, according to the agency. The criminal identity theft scheme left “more than 100 real victims to face devastating financial, emotional and legal consequences,” ICE writes in its announcement of the operation.
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-worksite-enforcement-operation-uncovers-widespread-identity-theft-affecting-more

Incredibly, Glenn Valley Foods was reportedly 100% compliant with E-Verify, a costly government database launched nearly three decades ago that screens new employees using records from various agencies to confirm candidates are in the country legally. https://www.dhs.gov/verify-employment-eligibility-e-verify The web-based system claims to match information provided by new hires against Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Social Security Administration (SSA) records. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) operates it because the agency is responsible for administering the nation’s lawful immigration system. The program is available to employers in every state as well as the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands. For private businesses it is voluntary but federal contractors and subcontractors must use it to vet workers. The government has for years claimed that E-Verify is “the best means available to electronically confirm employment eligibility.”

The Republican congressman (Don Bacon) who represents Omaha in the U.S. House, confirms that Glenn Valley Foods “complied with E-Verify 100%” and therefore the company is also a “victim.” https://bacon.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=2702
Other casualties of the Omaha identity fraud ring include a Californian who has been working for nearly 15 years to restore their identity and repair financial damage caused by the identity theft of one of the illegal immigrants; A disabled person in Texas, who was unable to work, and could not collect Social Security disability payments because an illegal alien was fraudulently using their identity and earning wages at Glenn Valley Foods; A Colorado resident ordered by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to repay over $5,000 after their income was falsely increased by the illegal immigrant’s identity theft; A full-time nursing student from Missouri who lost their college tuition assistance because it was fraudulently reported that they earned too much money after an illegal alien used their Social Security number for employment at Glenn Valley Foods.

Expressing frustration over the left’s narrative condemning recent immigration operations, the Homeland Security Investigations special agent in charge of the Glenn Valley Foods case points out that individuals have gone on the record referring to the identity thieves arrested by his agents as “good, hardworking, and honest.” The reality is that “these so-called honest workers have caused an immeasurable amount of financial and emotional hardship for innocent Americans,” said the supervisory agent, Mark Zito. “If pretending to be someone you aren’t in order to steal their lives isn’t blatant, criminal dishonesty, I don’t know what is.” The DHS official goes on to confirm that the criminals who stole these identities did not just break the law, they upended lives. “These victims aren’t faceless statistics,” special agent Zito said. “They’re real people who are being denied healthcare and have lost educational opportunities.” Zito also revealed that the investigation is ongoing.

If in fact Glenn Valley Foods screened every single employee with E-Verify it clearly demonstrates that the system’s widely reported flaws, identified in federal audits for years, have not been corrected. Just a few years ago, a DHS Inspector General report blasted USCIS, exposing “deficiencies” that illustrate the program needs “additional capabilities” to effectively confirm that individuals are eligible for employment in the United States. At the time the DHS watchdog found that E-Verify authorized employment for about 280,000 non-U.S. citizens without using the photo-matching process to confirm their identities and that 613,000 individuals were approved without meeting USCIS’s own verification requirements. Those are considered illegal immigrants, the demographic the system is supposed to prevent from unlawfully obtaining wages in the U.S."

[onawah]

More just posted by Tintin here about huge numbers of rapes of young white girls committed by Middle Eastern (Pakistani) immigrants, only in this case, in the UK: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?119339-Turmoil-in-the-British-Isles&p=1674539&viewfull=1#post1674539