Celestial Plasma / Ṛgveda

[Vedi]

This figure shows galactic structure of the Milky Way NASA revealed 2010.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi_image_1.jpg

This one shows the galactic structure with detailed annotation added based on the information released by the related scientific source and the Vedic literature. However, none of the scientists knew how to interpret this structure and how it worked.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi_image_2.jpg

The following figure shows the complete picture of the Heavenly structure of the Milky Way Galaxy based on the knowledge revealed in the Ṛgveda (ऋ􏰀वेदः). In the following figure, the terms ‘the Heaven’, ‘the Heavenly Vault’, and ‘the Heavenly sphere’ of the Ṛgveda are not to be confused with the ‘celestial sphere’ of astronomy. In astronomy, the ‘celestial sphere’ is an arbitrarily projected planet earth-centric sphere. In the Ṛgveda, the Heaven (􏰁ौः dyauḥ) has a very specific definition. The Heaven refers to the threefold sphere that encompasses the Upper and Lower Vaults of the Heaven, which are defined by the two bowl-shaped magnetic fields, and the Midheaven, or the Innerfield, between the Upper and Lower Heavens.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi_image_3.jpg

‘The celestial Waters’ is the term used in the Ṛgveda for celestial plasmas. These are natural plasmas. These natural plasmas are noisy because they are constantly singing. In the ancient Gnostics and Hermetic texts and alchemical texts, this galactic structure was called ‘Great Stone of the Philosophers’ or ‘Our Creator’s Wonderful Machine’ or ‘The philosopher’s Stone’ even though these texts do not reveal the details of the structure itself.

Only texts that reveal this secret knowledge is the 10 books of Ṛgveda Saṃhitāpāṭha (संिहतापाठः) and Padapāṭha (पदपाठः). These texts are simply called Ṛgveda. We do not know who have written these texts and how long ago. We only know that Ṛgveda had been orally transmitted for thousands of years (or even millions of years in my opinion) before it was first written down by Vasukra, one Kashmiri Brāhmaṇa. Due to the extraordinary measures of preserving the Ṛgveda by the Brāhmaṇas of India, we have the unadulterated text of the Ṛgveda handed down to us from remote antiquity.

All the existing translations of Ṛgveda are based on the scholarly speculation that “hymns of the Ṛgveda are deliberate riddles, mischievously designed to prevent those outside the cabal from being able to penetrate to their meaning”. So those translations (e.g. Muller, H.H. Wilson) do not make much sense and far from its original meaning.

In the successive posts, I will introduce the select hymns of the Ṛgveda with its original text and its translation by myself. The hymns are exquisitely beautiful.

(PDF of this post here (https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Post_1_of_Celestial_Plasma_thread.pdf))

[Vedi]

This Heavenly structure is called Aśvatthaḥ in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad (ii.3.1). Aśvatthaḥ is the inverted tree or Vedic Tree of Life. The root is the Heavenly Vault, with the Stone (the celestial ioniser is called ‘the Stone’ in the Ṛgveda), and the Soma Pond, which produces and pours out celestial Waters, cosmic plasmas. The Branches and Leaves represent the Milky Way, the Regions of Life. (It is a schematic diagram and NOT to scale).

The galactic structure itself, according to the Ṛgveda and the Kaṭha Upaniṣad, is eternal and imperishable. Within it rest all the worlds, the innumerable solar systems like ours.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi_image_4.jpg

Cosmic plasmas are produced by this Heavenly structure and matured in the Soma Pond, and discharged and released by Our Creator’s Wonderful Machine to sustain our Milky Way Galaxy three times a day every day. The following figure shows the growing and maturing plasma blooms in the Soma Pond.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi_image_5.jpg

The Soma Pond Mapped by Scientists of the Chandra X-Ray Observatory. Images are NOT on the same scale.

SN1572 (Tycho Supernova Remnants), about 55 light-years across. Image credit: X-Ray: NASA/CXC/ Rutgers/K. Eriksen et al. Optical: DSS.
SN1006 Supernova Remnants, about 70 light-years across. Image credit: NASA/CXC/ Middlebury College/F. Winkler.
Kepler’s Supernova, about 19-33 light-years across. Image credit: NASA/CXC/SAO/D. Patnaude.
Cassiopeia A Supernova Remnants, 29 light-years across. Image credit: NASA/CXC/Penn State/S. Park et al.

When these plasma blooms are fully matured, they tear the wrappings (shown in misty white, blue, and white) and released. The following figure shows the cosmic plasma discharge and release mechanism.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi_image_6.jpg

(PDF of this post here (https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Post_2_of_Celestial_Plasma_thread.pdf))

[shaberon]

These texts are simply called Ṛgveda. We do not know who have written these texts and how long ago. We only know that Ṛgveda had been orally transmitted for thousands of years (or even millions of years in my opinion) before it was first written down by Vasukra, one Kashmiri Brāhmaṇa. Due to the extraordinary measures of preserving the Ṛgveda by the Brāhmaṇas of India, we have the unadulterated text of the Ṛgveda handed down to us from remote antiquity.


Hi,

Interesting idea, although this is a rather extraordinary statement.

The hymns identify themselves by the composers.

I, personally, take it as a scripture in the sense that it is exactly copied, unadulterated, with certain exceptions.

What would give the impression that any of its contents are much older than about 1,800 B. C. E.?

So far, I have found the "late" recension of the Atharva Veda has mantra that implies Krttika marked the vernal equinox, which would have been the case generally in the 2,000s B. C. E.; however, this is followed by a refusal to accept precession, such that the Greek doctrine was said to be wrong in the Siddhantas of the relatively modern era. I find it difficult to believe that any concept of the "Great Year" ever happened, until someone ran those calculations backwards. That doesn't seem to be a valid "timer" for anything that was actually known to humanity.

The lobe-shaped protuberances surrounding the galaxy are formed by the supermassive black hole at the core, which is in Mula Naksatra, which is considered the worst influence, likely symbolized by the Vedic metaphor Down a Well.

I strongly disbelieve that any Brahmanical commentaries have any actual knowledge of the contents of the hymns, certainly not completely. Mainly what they have focused on is simply running a ritual. One of the major purposes of the original was simply to define The Year, upon which rituals were to be based. Our currently-accepted year of 365 1/4 days was started by a decree in Egypt in about the 200s B. C. E., whereas older systems were more of an attempt to combine lunar months to make the cycle.

In a certain sense, I think the point being raised has something to it, but I have to question the "cosmic structure" because it looks like a lot of later interpolations.

On the other hand, since we have also studied this in terms of Bio-plasma, I suggest it is also a "Vedic entity":


Agni Vaisvanara


so, rather than being about outer space, it is about life under the sun at this very moment.

The Rg Veda has numerous references to "Heaven and Earth", primarily Dyavaprithvi and Rodasi. That is one of its main subjects. It seems to consistently be about things that are readily observable by anyone. What would be the reason to assign it meaning that requires, for example, an x-ray telescope?

[Vedi]

These texts are simply called Ṛgveda. We do not know who have written these texts and how long ago. We only know that Ṛgveda had been orally transmitted for thousands of years (or even millions of years in my opinion) before it was first written down by Vasukra, one Kashmiri Brāhmaṇa. Due to the extraordinary measures of preserving the Ṛgveda by the Brāhmaṇas of India, we have the unadulterated text of the Ṛgveda handed down to us from remote antiquity.

Hi,

Interesting idea, although this is a rather extraordinary statement.

The hymns identify themselves by the composers.

I, personally, take it as a scripture in the sense that it is exactly copied, unadulterated, with certain exceptions.

What would give the impression that any of its contents are much older than about 1,800 B. C. E.?

So far, I have found the "late" recension of the Atharva Veda has mantra that implies Krttika marked the vernal equinox, which would have been the case generally in the 2,000s B. C. E.; however, this is followed by a refusal to accept precession, such that the Greek doctrine was said to be wrong in the Siddhantas of the relatively modern era. I find it difficult to believe that any concept of the "Great Year" ever happened, until someone ran those calculations backwards. That doesn't seem to be a valid "timer" for anything that was actually known to humanity.

The lobe-shaped protuberances surrounding the galaxy are formed by the supermassive black hole at the core, which is in Mula Naksatra, which is considered the worst influence, likely symbolized by the Vedic metaphor Down a Well.

I strongly disbelieve that any Brahmanical commentaries have any actual knowledge of the contents of the hymns, certainly not completely. Mainly what they have focused on is simply running a ritual. One of the major purposes of the original was simply to define The Year, upon which rituals were to be based. Our currently-accepted year of 365 1/4 days was started by a decree in Egypt in about the 200s B. C. E., whereas older systems were more of an attempt to combine lunar months to make the cycle.

In a certain sense, I think the point being raised has something to it, but I have to question the "cosmic structure" because it looks like a lot of later interpolations.

On the other hand, since we have also studied this in terms of Bio-plasma, I suggest it is also a "Vedic entity":

Agni Vaisvanara

so, rather than being about outer space, it is about life under the sun at this very moment.

The Rg Veda has numerous references to "Heaven and Earth", primarily Dyavaprithvi and Rodasi. That is one of its main subjects. It seems to consistently be about things that are readily observable by anyone. What would be the reason to assign it meaning that requires, for example, an x-ray telescope?


Thank you! I have embedded my very detailed answer as a PDF, as (for reasons you may understand) the formatting was too difficult and complex to copy in full as text.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi's_answer_to_shaberon.pdf

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi's_answer_to_shaberon.pdf

[shaberon]

Interesting.

I will have a look at it.

The forum will readily post Devanagari and Chinese characters.

We can't HTML so it won't work like a full web page; it has some, but limited, capabilities.

[shaberon]

I will try to put something together.


I posted a main subject, and your reply:


“Agni Vaisvanara”

I do not study other classes of Sanskrit literature, especially Puranic literature. They are prone to
modification and highly personified and symbolised (different symbolism than Ṛgveda) with very few
exceptions.



Vaisvanara (https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/vaishvanara) has over a hundred instances in Rg Veda. It is a line one invocation in multiple hymns.


I have a reason for doing this. I entered as a devotee of mantra with an understanding of Agni as quintessence. Everything I have found is very encouraging. Until further information comes along, Vaisvanara as the Plasma Individual appears accurate to me.


I see you have made a lot of suggestions, and these are sort of difficult for me to track:



...if you examine the authors names,
you realise the celestial phenomenon itself is assigned as author’s name.


I actually don't.

I know of one where I would say this is the case, but I think we need to ask what is specifically "celestial":

We can detect historical events, geography, and writing styles, such as some of them are not "authors" but just "speakers", as in "Indra speaks..." without an actual Rishi being a composer.

This part called the Anukramani or "header information" is very interesting, particularly in the way it dismantles Puranic Itihasa almost single-handedly. Like you can see they mixed up Bhrgva and Bhargava and wound up with something I suggest has nothing to do with the way things went. There is nothing that suggests Visvamitra ever "fought" with anyone in any way whatsoever; plenty of conflicts are recorded, this is not one of them.


Something like this may have possibilities:



Maruts (pl.) are the one of the names assigned to plasma blooms grow and mature in the Soma Pond.


Well they may be lightning, which is a terrestrial phenomenon. The Maruts are also those Rishis with twenty-four years' experience. So it has at least a dual meaning. And there is a lot in here we might say is atmospheric, that concerns the sky and weather patterns and therefor could be classed as Agricultural. The form of Agni that hides in Water does at least suggest an understanding about friction on storm clouds producing lightning; it's not unreasonable someone might figure that was a giant correspondence of what you can do with a cloth or some fur, etc., and in this case it is that same kind of static discharge. And so I would most readily agree towards a basic understanding about lightning, although it may or may not be represented by the Maruts or Agni or others at any given time.

I would tend to triple the meaning and say, well, they are Air Elementals interior to the human aura. And so if there is a "Storm" you are not really going to like it, which is why we train ourselves to pacify them.



You are making some sweeping generalities:


In the Ṛgveda, Ārya (आयᭅः), which is
translated as ‘Āryan’ by Griffith and others, is the positive charge of the double layer of a cosmic plasma
sheath


This would be Atri:


According to the Ṛgveda, it is the Stone, the celestial ionizer that produce cosmic plasmas (celestial
Lights) and pours out that Lights, not the black hole.


The galactic lobes are not "lights", they are x-rays.

I'm missing the reason that would make Rishi Atri into specifically that.

As to what ionizes plasmas, heat and pressure usually, although there are at least sixteen kinds of plasma.

I tend to think Relativity is "incomplete", that is, it is not the one law that rules from one Big Bang to a Big Crunch. It seems to me this is happening in a bed of quantum foam which is never created or destroyed.

I don't know how there is any way to refer to the galactic core besides Mula Naksatra which is Down in the worst possible way. The Rg Veda has absolutely no mention of Hell as a place of torment, but does refer to the unfortunate fate to sleep in darkness. It is like your mind is sucked down a well and just stops working. It is trying to guide you to Svar Loka, where there is no night.




Again I am not sure:


When read in the context of the Ṛgveda,
Pṛthivī, which literally means “the broad and extended One”, is revealed to be the Milky Way


There probably is something in the guise of "milk" or "liquid" and particularly those Naksatras where the plane of the Milky Way intersects the belt of Lunar Mansions.

It would probably be related to the Seasons.

The visible Milky Way is certainly the legendary Celestial Ganges, which is lovable but post-Vedic.

One physical curiosity is that the meridian and the Tropic of Cancer intersect at Ujjain, which was, so to speak, the "headquarters" of astrology. In terms of Lights, structures such as the Magellanic Clouds are visible from south India, and this is nothing new. Then try to find awareness of them in the northern literature.


The strange truth is that Megalith Culture is a European craft evidenced at 20,000 years ago or more. It migrated after the Ice Age and entered India at a quite late stage compared to most civilizations.


This will give us perhaps the most objective lead about their celestial knowledge base.

Now, especially for those of us who are not from India, the thing about it that is a little strange is that the Western Ghats are very close to the west coast of almost the whole peninsula. Therefor, that part is physically isolated, and all of the interior points east.

That makes fertile ground to look at Daimabad, one of the last IVC sites, some of the Vedic Rishis associated with the west and south such as Agastyas and Kanvas, and then the transfer of Megalith technology from a few minor sited in north India to Mudumal (https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/6802/):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Mudumal_Megalithic_Menhris_Narayanpet_Telangana_India_11.jpg/1024px-Mudumal_Megalithic_Menhris_Narayanpet_Telangana_India_11.jpg


They say it marks solstice alignments, and has images of Ursa Major and Leo. This site is near the Krishna River in Telegana and is probably about 3,500 to possibly 4,000 years old.

That matches "late" IVC, and, at least in my estimation, those Rishis.

No one paid any attention to this; it obviously hasn't been "discovered", merely valued as more than junk in the ground. If there was any transmission of astronomical information that came along with the idea of raising stones, that was the knowledge of the Rishis, Vedanga Jyotish.




These sorts of attributions:


Trita is
one of the three fires of Agni, proton

Āptya Trita,
tritium


are again somewhat technical in a way hard to see would be historically appropriate.

However, we have information indicating that it is a star, a very interesting one at that. It is in the Siddhantas, which may be acceptable if there is not other information to the contrary. There's not; the mantra refers to an otherwise-unspecified location. It is a nearly unique praise we could call Nightmare Usas, which invokes Usas -- Dawn to remove our personal Svapna -- Nightmare and toss it into this "Trita" as a dumping ground. And so if the goal of Yoga is Moksha or Liberation, do the hymns refer to this, and from what. I think they do, I think it offers a tiered theology to pursue:



Liberation by Illumination

Liberation from Sin

a) from the debts of damages and suffering inflicted

b) from mental anguish, "nightmare", depression, and similar individual and personal issues


When that is gone, what remains.




I am trying to find the connections being made between Vedic Sanskrit and the modern definitions:



Agni is proton and Soma is electron. Stanza RV iii.20.2 emphasises that there are three
forms or fires of Agni, which are termed three isotopes of hydrogen in modern physics


The first, or something like it, may be possible, especially if a spark of lightning may have been understood at this basic level. The second point does not really follow from it. The three forms are Solar, Water or Ocean = Lightning, and from Friction or kindling by man. What would constitute observation of isotopes of hydrogen. How would they get this.




Soma is one of the two charged embryonic particles of celestial Waters, that is, cosmic plasmas. Soma
encloses and restrains Agnis in the nucleus, forming the shell of the atomic structure


That would be a consequence of the first fact, but, I am not sure that the basic observation of a static discharge means that you understand an atomic nucleus.






Agni is born of the fire
sacrifice, that is, through ionisation


Literally or figuratively?



plasma blooms, or Soma plants


The plants have an important literal meaning, related to Immortality. Whatever would truly be left after complete Liberation would be Immortal. That is the transition sought here. And I think that part may match:



deceased men (मताᭅः pl.) refer to the men reborn as cosmic plasmas after death, that is, the
destruction of atomic structures through the ionisation process.


except I might tend to think it was a disembodied Bio-plasma.

What was intended by my remark was Horse Head rite.




Mātā,
the mother milch Cow, is also called Devī Iḷā (इळा). The mother milch Cow is the Stone (ᮕावा grāvā), the
celestial ioniser, who yields milk, the cosmic plasmas, by breaking up the ionic bonds of hydrogen



I think it may be something similar to that. We have a certain understanding of Ila with Luminous Cows:

https://har-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/item-images-resized/4/0/5/40518/40518_2000px.jpg


https://har-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/item-images-resized/8/1/6/81636/81636_2000px.jpg



the symbol involved here is Yogurt and then we are back to why do we have a Horse Head rite done by Warden of Curds.

I understand it in a mental way, that is, an ingathered effulgence that is the opposite of Sleep in Darkness. I'm not completely sure what it is objectively or physically.


This was taken from I.164:


a seminal stream, i.e.
a stream of cosmic plasmas



Dirghatamas is an Angiras, who composed the first one of the kind that later came to be called an "Apri Hymn" that defines all the Rishi Gotras.


In this area, he promotes divinities that seem un-emphasized; there is Vishnu Trivikrama I.154, and a notable section on the Rbhus. These are actually very important in the Rg Veda.


His last two hymns are a type of argument between literal and symbolic sacrifice. Most of I.163 is actually rather graphic but could be said to have "clues" about symbolism:


There is one immolator of the radiant horse, which is Time


“Your great birth, O Horse, is to be glorified; whether first springing from the firmament or from the water inasmuch as you have neighed (auspiciously), for you have the wings of the falcon and the limbs of the deer.”

“Trita harnessed the horse which was given by yama; Indra first mounted him, and gandharva seized his reins. Vasus, you fabricated the horse from the sun.”

“You horse are Yama and you are Āditya; you are Trita by a mysterious act; you are associated with Soma. The sages have said there are three bindings of you in heaven.”


or:

Yama art thou, O Horse; thou art Aditya; Trita art thou by secret operation.
Thou art divided thoroughly from Soma. They say thou hast three bonds in heaven.




I.164 has a nearly unexplainable start:

“They yoke the seven (horses) to the one-wheeled car; one horse, named seven, bears it along; the three-axled wheel is undecaying, never loosened, and in it all these regions of the universe abide.”

“The seven who preside over this seven-wheeled chariot (are) the seven horses who draw it; seven sisters ride in it together, and in are deposited the seven forms of utterance.”



It then asks:

where is the soul?

asthanvantam yad anasthā bibharti = liṭ, that which having bone the boneless sustains; the boneless is the prakṛti of the sāṅkhya, or the māyā of the vedāntins, which is formless matter, or spiritual illusion, from which the material and visible world proceeds

ātmā or cetanā, the thinking principle, although connected with gross and subtle form, is nowhere perceptible as a separate object, and not to be apprehended, either by pupil or teacher





what is that one alone, who has upheld these six spheres in the form of the unborn?

ajasya rūpe



Sayana guesses at this symbolism:

The one sole (sun), having three mothers and three fathers

Three mothers and three fathers: the three worlds, earth, sky, heaven; and the three deities presiding over them: agni, vāyu, sūrya



Expressions of The Year:


“The twelve-spoked wheel, of the true (sun) revolves round the heavens, and never (tends) to decay; seven hundred and twenty children in pairs, Agni, abide in it.”

“They have termed the five-footed, twelve-formed parent, Puriṣin, when in the further hemisphere of the sky; and others have termed it Arpita, when in the hither (portion of the sky); shining in his seven-wheeled car), each (wheel) having six spokes.”


“He who knows the protector of this (world) as the inferior associated with the superior, and the superior associated with the inferior, he is, as it were, a sage; but who in this world can expound (it); whence is the divine mind in its supremacy engendereḍ ”



Soul of the Year:


Devatā (deity/subject-matter): saṃvatsarātmā kālaḥ

“The fellies are twelve; the wheel is one; three are the axles; but who knows it? within it are collected 360 (spokes), which are, as it were, moveable and immoveable.”



Finally it introduces the Sadhya class:


yatra pūrve sādhyāḥ santi devāḥ ||

These Mighty Ones attained the height of heaven, there where the Sadhyas, Gods of old, are dwelling.
Uniform, with the passing days, this water mounts and fails again.



The implication is that Horse Sacrifice is just a symbolic death and rebirth of the Year, as Horse Head is death and rebirth of the individual.




I find myself asking in what way is plasma being used here.



One of the oldest known venerations of an observable Plasma is with the Greek Dioscuri, that is, Gemini, as patrons of sailors because of St. Elmo's Fire appearing on ships.

We have pursued its scientific basis due to its "discovery" by Dr. Crookes in 1884. That's a long stretch without directly attributing it to electrons or anmything like that.


The reason I suggest Bio-plasma is a little different, is, because we're not talking about instruments, measurements, and charges, but something that can be detected by the human body, particularly in relation to the Sun.


Because that is permanently true for anyone at an unconscious level, what would it be like for someone to become sensitive to it?

Could it plausibly be named Agni Vaisvanara?


This is from the Old Books, Bharadvaja in VI.7 (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/rig-veda-english-translation/d/doc833740.html):



mūrdhānaṃ divo aratim pṛthivyā vaiśvānaram ṛta ā jātam agnim | kaviṃ samrājam atithiṃ janānām āsann ā pātraṃ janayanta devāḥ ||

“The gods have generated vaiśvānara Agni, as the brow of heaven, the unceasing pervader of earth, born for (the celebration of) sacrifice, wise, imperial, the guest of men, in whose mouth (is) the vessel (that conveys the oblation to the gods).”


"Imperial" has not been taken from raja but from Samraj or Universal Emperor, which is the root of the more commonly-known Chakravartin, which is the highest designation that can be given to someone. But this Emperor is an Atithi, Guest. That is prevalent. You are invoking him, and, then he conveys your mantra up to the Deva Loka. He is running a circuit.



VI.8 (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/rig-veda-english-translation/d/doc833751.html):



“The mighty maruts have seized upon him on the lap of the waters (in firmament), and men have acknowledged him as their adorable sovereign; mātariśvan, the messenger of the gods, has brought Agni vaiśvānara (hither) from the distant (sphere of the) sun.


There we find him interfacing with Matarisvan, lord of wind, an element which has basically been ignored in Vedic reviews.

They travel together as in III.26 (https://www.meluhha.com/rv/verse.pl?v=%3Cb%3E03.026.02b%3C/b%3E&acc=no&q=3.&lang=ved):

That Agni, bright, Vaisvanara, we invoke for help, and Matarisvan worthy of the song of praise


which in fact begins by stating itself as the mission of the Kausikas (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/rig-veda-english-translation/d/doc831774.html):



“We of the race of Kuśika offering oblations, desirous of wealth, having contemplated him in our minds, invoke with praises the divine Vaiśvānara, the observer of truth, the cognizant of heaven, the bountiful, the charioteer, the frequenter (of sacrifices).”


Vaisvanara is the founding pillar of the two oldest Family Books.


There is some unusual information for X.88:


Ṛṣi (sage/seer): mūrdhanvānāṅgiraso vāmadevyo vā

Devatā (deity/subject-matter): sūryavaiśvānarau



by Murdhanva Angiras or Vamadevya, that is to say, the Vamadevyas are Angirases. Then there is a strange looking compound deity.



In the hymn, we can find this phrase rather than Dyavaprithvi (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/rig-veda-english-translation/d/doc839561.html):

pṛthivī dyaur


and what we see are praises about Agni as the total energy of manifestation. But further along, there are verses about the Devas "preparing" him with Suktavaka or words of hymns before he is "born" as radiant energy to the dust or rocks. In other hymns, we can go on to find several more references to a "pre-cosmic creation" that only makes sense as a Mental World. That idea is present here, although it is backwards. That seems to be the natural order of a lot of the descriptions. "Before now, this, and before this, that".

Suryavaisvanara is a mediumishly long hymn that praises Agni on almost every line, and around the middle, Surya Aditya is simply placed with him as a twin in Heaven.

After that, we find more of this full expression:


The gods made Agni Vaiśvānara, the indicator of days...



Agni is the Year.

This is clear from Vedanga Jyotish, of which the Vamadevyas were leading exponents.


For that, I have one thing to offer that could be cosmic or celestial.

First we have noticed a certain problem that there was such an avid fix of the Equinox to Krttika that it was completely ignored as transiting through Bharani. And this of course is a somewhat difficult observation that relates to the timing of the seasons. And because of that, you could get away with it being basically invisible to the average person.

On the other hand, the North Pole slides along an arc that is visible to everybody, and, it is needed every day for directions. It's constantly observed, so you can't hide it.


I am apprehensive about Puranic literature as a genre, but it has a slight justification. For one, the Rg Veda does not have any "purana" or "tradition", it is written to an audience who would have understood this. The Veda mostly just praises whatever was in that knowledge base.

What was transmitted were words with no indication of any manuscript until the ninth century, meaning there was a caste whose job was to do this memorizing, not that there was a soul who understood its interconnected subject matter.

Because it was difficult, Saunaka compiled an index of its deities called Brhaddevata. And this in turn is mainly narrated into the core of the Vayu and Brahmanda Puranas. That makes them the "closest", while the others represent various omissions or changes or whatever. The "close" ones are maybe not too bad for their mythic content, but when it comes to Sages and Kings and so forth I would be more careful.


So, on an observation basis, humanity would have watched the North Pole slide along several faint stars in Draco such as Thuban for about a thousand years, and then it would have moved towards a better star in Ursa Minor.

One of the few statements in the Rg Veda I would tend to think may really be cosmic is that, during the time of Divodasa, the Sisumara was fixed.

My guess is this is when Kochab becomes Dhruva -- Pole Star.


And this is meaningful in a passage that is only transmitted in Brahmanda Purana. It describes a Sisumara sign that incorporates parts of Ursa Minor and other stars nearby.

The Bhagavata Purana has a strange way of turning the Sisumara into every star in the sky.

[Vedi]

The book The Magneto-Plasma Cosmology of the Ṛgveda will give you a comprehensive overview of the Hindu cosmology based on what the Ṛgveda reveals and why all other source is not so accurate. I have reviewed all 10 books of Ṛgveda and translated important stanzas and hymns (more about 320 stanzas for Ṛgveda and several verses from Sūryasidhanta and other sources directly translated from the Saskrit by myself.

You point to the Wisdom Library, which is not an “official or legitimate” source of information regarding Ṛgveda. Actually, I am a subscribing member of the Wisdom Library and I found a numerous errors in the contents of the webpage and conveyed that there are numerous errors, but he (the webpage owner) does not listen because he only relies on others translated works.

If you have written Vaiśvānara (वैश्वानर), I could have immediately recognized it. The definitions Monier-Williams Sanskrit Dictionary provides for Vaiśvānara,

As an adjective,
“वैश्वानर mf(ई)n. (fr. विश्वा-नर) relating or belonging to all men, omnipresent, known or worshipped, everywhere, universal, general, common, RV. &c
; consisting of all men, full in number, complete, RV”

As a masculine noun,
“वैश्वानर m. N. of Agni or Fire, RV. &c. &c. (Agni Vaiśv° is regarded as the author of x, 79, 80)”

Yes, the word Vaiśvānara (वैश्वानर) are used a hundred of instances as adjectives and nouns as authors of the stanzas.

“I actually don't.
I know of one where I would say this is the case, but I think we need to ask what is specifically "celestial"”

Look up an English dictionary to see what it means.
If you read the Ṛgveda in original Vedic Sanskrit, and look up the authors’ names in the Monier-Williams Sanskrit Dictionay, you will see every single author’s name is either celestial objects or celestial phenomena.

“The Maruts are also those Rishis with twenty-four years' experience. …”
Where this information is from?

“”You are making some sweeping generalities:
“ In the Ṛgveda, Ārya (आयᭅः), which is translated as ‘Āryan’ by Griffith and others, is the positive charge of the double layer of a cosmic plasma sheath””
Again, reading the book may help.

“The galactic lobes are not "lights", they are x-rays. I'm missing the reason that would make Rishi Atri into specifically that”
Those pictures release by NASA are X-Ray picture.

“These sorts of attributions:
Trita is
one of the three fires of Agni, proton

Āptya Trita,
tritium

are again somewhat technical in a way hard to see would be historically appropriate.

However, we have information indicating that it is a star, a very interesting one at that. It is in the Siddhantas, which may be acceptable if there is not other information to the contrary. There's not; the mantra refers to an otherwise-unspecified location. It is a nearly unique praise we could call Nightmare Usas, which invokes Usas -- Dawn to remove our personal Svapna -- Nightmare and toss it into this "Trita" as a dumping ground. And so if the goal of Yoga is Moksha or Liberation, do the hymns refer to this, and from what. I think they do, I think it offers a tiered theology to pursue: …

Which Siddhānta (सिद्धान्त)? There are numerous सिद्धान्तs.

It seems that the rest of the raised questions/comments are not directly related to Ṛgveda and I do not want to engage in unproductive (from my perspective) prolonged discussions. I am busy with translating the rest of the Ṛgveda, and my goal is to translate all 10 books before I go to the Heaven.
Thank you.

Edit to add:

Here's the PDF, which may contain better formatting!

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi's_Answer_to_shaberon_2.pdf
https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Vedi's_Answer_to_shaberon_2.pdf

[Vedi]

Hi, shaberon.
You may address me as Vedi or Youngsinn. I am a new member joined very recently. Still learning how to post. I did not mean your comments are not welcome. Comments form anybody are always welcome. Due to my age, I suddenly realised that I need to introduce some of the beautiful stanzas of Rgveda to the Forum members before I go to the Heaven. So I joined the Bill's Forum to introduce some of the beautiful stanzas and hymns of Rgveda because I followed Bill's Forum from the earlier days.

As I said at the beginning, I focus on Rgveda, not other classes of Sanskrit literature. It seems that you learned wide range of Sanskrit related topics and literature. So I will not be able to reply to you comments, if not Rgveda related. Though I am not able to answer some cases, I read all your comments.

I am dealing with several health issues so my answers may be delayed a bit.

[Vedi]

Here is the definitions of Agni in Monier-Williams Sanskrit Dictionary. Agni is not the year. Agni is fiery proton.
"अग्नि m. (√अग्, Uṇ.) fire, sacrificial fire (of three kinds, Gārhapatya, Āhavanīya, and Dakṣiṇa)"
; the number three, (in Sūryas). (because it has three isotopes-my comment)
; the god of fire, the fire of the stomach, digestive faculty, gastric fluid
; ......"

[Vedi]

My book, published in 2021: (now in the Avalon Library)

Youngsinn Sohn, PhD: The Magneto-Plasma Cosmology of the Rigveda - An Alternative to the Big Bang Theory (2021)

https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Youngsinn%20Sohn%20-%20The%20Magneto-Plasma%20Cosmology%20of%20the%20Rigveda%20-%20An%20Alternative%20to%20the%20Big%20Bang%20Theory%20(2021).pdf

https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Youngsinn%20Sohn%20-%20The%20Magneto-Plasma%20Cosmology%20of%20the%20Rigveda%20-%20An%20Alternative%20to%20the%20Big%20Bang%20Theory%20(2021).pdf