Six Democrat Senators say do not follow "Illegal "orders

[thepainterdoug]

Six Democrat Senators say do not follow orders. we mean Illegal!

well well, I finally see someone wanting the term "illegal" to be duly noted

So the military, national guard, ICE and all government agencies need to wait , stop, read and litigate in their heads and among themselves, what their commanders orders legalities are prior to carrying those orders out? So hey guys, have your attorney at your side .

This in some odd way reminds me of the word gymnastics in the woke discussion, what is a woman? ? What is "illegal"? Then break down the sentence: what does "what "mean? And what does "Is" mean?

All the while this is just one of many efforts in word play to undermine the USA , end US sovereignty with an end game, a one world Klaus Schwab Gov. everything this bunch does is in the interest of ending the USA

I have asked and stated 1000 times to the libs when referring to ICE, and the immigrants we are talking about, we mean " illegal" immigrants, and they just skate over the term and say we love our immigrants.
If they would only admit that truth, agree or disagree , then we could begin a discussion

But these word games are encouraged until it then serves them to illustrate, we mean" ILLEGAL" orders!! lol What a stupid and tiring clown show.

[rgray222]

This ad said this to me. How do you say 'overthrow the government' or 'create anarchy' without actually saying it?

They intentionally left what they are referencing vague because they can start fitting things into that narrative, i.e ICE raids, the destruction of drug boats off the coast of Venezuela, more to be named later.

This is the closest I have ever seen a political party come to openly talk of overthrowing the government. It is actually quite frightening, but I suppose that is the purpose. After all, the two great motivators are anger and fear.

[thepainterdoug]

rgray. 100% absolutely true! and they are turning up the heat similar to the boiling frog analogy.
little by little, while offering NOTHING in policy or constructiveness for the country other than hate Trump, they carry out their plans. The shutdown purposeful, and all part of it

[Mike]

Six Democrat Senators say do not follow orders. we mean Illegal!

well well, I finally see someone wanting the term "illegal" to be duly noted

So the military, national guard, ICE and all government agencies need to wait , stop, read and litigate in their heads and among themselves, what their commanders orders legalities are prior to carrying those orders out? So hey guys, have your attorney at your side .

This in some odd way reminds me of the word gymnastics in the woke discussion, what is a woman? ? What is "illegal"? Then break down the sentence: what does "what "mean? And what does "Is" mean?

All the while this is just one of many efforts in word play to undermine the USA , end US sovereignty with an end game, a one world Klaus Schwab Gov. everything this bunch does is in the interest of ending the USA

I have asked and stated 1000 times to the libs when referring to ICE, and the immigrants we are talking about, we mean " illegal" immigrants, and they just skate over the term and say we love our immigrants.
If they would only admit that truth, agree or disagree , then we could begin a discussion

But these word games are encouraged until it then serves them to illustrate, we mean" ILLEGAL" orders!! lol What a stupid and tiring clown show.

Hey Doug, I've been calling it a clown show for a long time. I've used words like "crazy" and "lunatics" more times than I can count. And "madness" and "insane". And a few others to describe this political and cultural and spiritual rot.

But all those descriptors are downstream of the one that truly epitomizes this entire nightmare: EVIL

I think most people know this on some level but are in varying states of denial. So we laugh and makes jokes etc. That was my process anyway. But at its core it's demonic and just plain evil.

Identity Marxists use the same words as everyone else but they often have entirely different meanings. There are countless examples of this. "Woman" is one. They'll use its literal meaning when it's politically convenient i.e. when they recognize they've lost the public, and then use the newly invented activist meaning amongst themselves or when brainwashing vulnerable young people. And then when called out on this trick they will vigorously deny they're doing it.

It makes them very slippery. The average person just can't keep up with all the co-opting and rebranding of language. And even in the cases when a significant number of average folks do finally catch up, they'll just rebrand all over again. Critical Theory has been rebranded now, as has ESG. I forget what the new names are.

For them the ends justify the means so they have no moral qualms with the endless lying and duplicity and manipulation. Whatever will get them to the finish line is fair game. Lying and hypocrisy are used as strategic weapons. Whatever is good for the "revolution", and in this case it's flooding the country with illegals but denying they're actually illegal. The main goal for all Marxists is revolution, but here we're getting yet another rebrand to keep them out of trouble. The foot soldiers on the ground can openly call for revolution, but the politicians are sort of forced to speak in code (or just lie).

[JackMcThorn]

Rules of Engagement - the military has been dealing with this idea of lawful orders for many decades [arguable since Vietnam which is over 5o years ago now...] - they are not strangers to potential legal issues regarding orders. Since the change from Department of Defense to the War Department, perhaps a little less so and a little more intense.

Democrats will say anything to get their way. They will sell the souls for a pittance. A Republican government tends to favor the military more than a Democratic one. I served under Clinton and we barely had the budget necessary to persist. When I needed something and placed an order, all of them were rejected. I had to go to the shore repair facility to collect metal scraps for my machine shop on the ship is how bad that was at the time. My wife at the time, in the navy also, helped me load some of this metal from my truck on the pier to my shop on the ship. Funny enough, the chief engineer saw us topside with the metal and asked what we were doing. [He rejected my requests for materials.] To him, I was resourceful, but to me, I just wanted to be prepared at sea.

It is long overdue the handling of crime and perhaps violent crime in the big cities. Long overdue. It almost makes it look like nothing was happening before, the level of complacency among LE is astonishing.

While aboard ship we conducted search and seizure of contraband on the high seas in the Persian Gulf along with other missions. This business with the cartels is indeed as well long overdue. We should have been doing this decades ago. DECADES, I tell you! The original 198o's war on drugs would have been influenced greatly by decisions such as this.

The military has walked on eggshells for far too long by distracting legal issues. If you want to know more about rules of engagement problems, read about the Navy SEALs in Operation Red Wings. [or see the movie.] Lone Survivor is the title. The dilemma of a lack of swift action resulted in many unnecessary deaths of our servicemen. This is the spark of controversy the democrats infected the uniformed services with many of these years.

I say have some confidence in the officer corps of our military to disseminate lawful orders. They are running on 25o years of experience now and they spend a lot of time studying history and the history of successful career officers.

[SilentFeathers]

Six Democrat Senators say do not follow orders. we mean Illegal!

well well, I finally see someone wanting the term "illegal" to be duly noted

So the military, national guard, ICE and all government agencies need to wait , stop, read and litigate in their heads and among themselves, what their commanders orders legalities are prior to carrying those orders out? So hey guys, have your attorney at your side .

This in some odd way reminds me of the word gymnastics in the woke discussion, what is a woman? ? What is "illegal"? Then break down the sentence: what does "what "mean? And what does "Is" mean?

All the while this is just one of many efforts in word play to undermine the USA , end US sovereignty with an end game, a one world Klaus Schwab Gov. everything this bunch does is in the interest of ending the USA

I have asked and stated 1000 times to the libs when referring to ICE, and the immigrants we are talking about, we mean " illegal" immigrants, and they just skate over the term and say we love our immigrants.
If they would only admit that truth, agree or disagree , then we could begin a discussion

But these word games are encouraged until it then serves them to illustrate, we mean" ILLEGAL" orders!! lol What a stupid and tiring clown show.

I think this was a sign that the far left and anti-American globalists are getting ready to do some type of huge false flag event/attack. Escalating a civil war type of scenario and or response. A false flag type of attack/event that'll force Trump to "bring in the military" so to speak. The talking heads are trying to get some of the population to think Trumps response to this false flag disaster will be an illegal response. I'm just speculating of course.

I do think something big is about to happen soon, been feeling it since the first week of November.

The thought of all these young fighting age male illegals that have crossed the border has always been on my mind also, where have they all disappeared to?

An event that'll get most of these rioters and illegals to ramp up their attacks on ICE, Border Agents, and National Guards will absolutely force trump to call in the military and then we'll likely see all these far left federal judges go into deranged mode and try to block Trump and the federal government at all angles. It'll be a disaster for sure on the streets and in many cities. It's likely many will be injured and or killed.

Things are spirally out of control as we speak, a disastrous event will likely turn everything into complete chaos.

[thepainterdoug]

Thanks All!! I agree with all comments. Sorry Mike, I should have credited you with "Clown show" comment. Yes you have led the pack in the use of this .

Silent Feathers. Quite possibly yes. They need to up the anti, and the next step needs to be very impactful. The masses are who they are after, and they are easily steered.

[Mike]

Thanks All!! I agree with all comments. Sorry Mike, I should have credited you with "Clown show" comment. Yes you have led the pack in the use of this .

Silent Feathers. Quite possibly yes. They need to up the anti, and the next step needs to be very impactful. The masses are who they are after, and they are easily steered.


Lol, I was just trying to cosign on your lament there. I wasn't taking credit for "clown show":) I've used it here and there over the years is all.

Mark has copyrighted that one with his 'clown show' thread:thumbsup:

[SilentFeathers]

Six Democrat Senators say do not follow orders. we mean Illegal!

well well, I finally see someone wanting the term "illegal" to be duly noted

So the military, national guard, ICE and all government agencies need to wait , stop, read and litigate in their heads and among themselves, what their commanders orders legalities are prior to carrying those orders out? So hey guys, have your attorney at your side .

This in some odd way reminds me of the word gymnastics in the woke discussion, what is a woman? ? What is "illegal"? Then break down the sentence: what does "what "mean? And what does "Is" mean?

All the while this is just one of many efforts in word play to undermine the USA , end US sovereignty with an end game, a one world Klaus Schwab Gov. everything this bunch does is in the interest of ending the USA

I have asked and stated 1000 times to the libs when referring to ICE, and the immigrants we are talking about, we mean " illegal" immigrants, and they just skate over the term and say we love our immigrants.
If they would only admit that truth, agree or disagree , then we could begin a discussion

But these word games are encouraged until it then serves them to illustrate, we mean" ILLEGAL" orders!! lol What a stupid and tiring clown show.

Hey Doug, I've been calling it a clown show for a long time. I've used words like "crazy" and "lunatics" more times than I can count. And "madness" and "insane". And a few others to describe this political and cultural and spiritual rot.

But all those descriptors are downstream of the one that truly epitomizes this entire nightmare: EVIL

I think most people know this on some level but are in varying states of denial. So we laugh and makes jokes etc. That was my process anyway. But at its core it's demonic and just plain evil.

Identity Marxists use the same words as everyone else but they often have entirely different meanings. There are countless examples of this. "Woman" is one. They'll use its literal meaning when it's politically convenient i.e. when they recognize they've lost the public, and then use the newly invented activist meaning amongst themselves or when brainwashing vulnerable young people. And then when called out on this trick they will vigorously deny they're doing it.

It makes them very slippery. The average person just can't keep up with all the co-opting and rebranding of language. And even in the cases when a significant number of average folks do finally catch up, they'll just rebrand all over again. Critical Theory has been rebranded now, as has ESG. I forget what the new names are.

For them the ends justify the means so they have no moral qualms with the endless lying and duplicity and manipulation. Whatever will get them to the finish line is fair game. Lying and hypocrisy are used as strategic weapons. Whatever is good for the "revolution", and in this case it's flooding the country with illegals but denying they're actually illegal. The main goal for all Marxists is revolution, but here we're getting yet another rebrand to keep them out of trouble. The foot soldiers on the ground can openly call for revolution, but the politicians are sort of forced to speak in code (or just lie).

I'm pretty certain these far left lunatics attend secret schools that teach them how to weaponize language and to socially engineer the masses. They are trained to become parasites of the minds of many, they are psyche parasites.

....and yes, extremely demonic and evil! demonic psyche parasites.

They have planted the seed of rebellion towards the most powerful structures in this nation, and thus at the same time, captured the narrative. This is "Bigtime" to say the least. They keep doing this crap because they know they can get away with it, they know they are above the law. They are convinced their "skills" of being psyche parasites and experts at language manipulation that they can squirm through any kind of accountability for their demonic and evil manipulations.

In my opinion, they are extremely talented at what they do, they keep getting away with it.

[Mike]

Six Democrat Senators say do not follow orders. we mean Illegal!

well well, I finally see someone wanting the term "illegal" to be duly noted

So the military, national guard, ICE and all government agencies need to wait , stop, read and litigate in their heads and among themselves, what their commanders orders legalities are prior to carrying those orders out? So hey guys, have your attorney at your side .

This in some odd way reminds me of the word gymnastics in the woke discussion, what is a woman? ? What is "illegal"? Then break down the sentence: what does "what "mean? And what does "Is" mean?

All the while this is just one of many efforts in word play to undermine the USA , end US sovereignty with an end game, a one world Klaus Schwab Gov. everything this bunch does is in the interest of ending the USA

I have asked and stated 1000 times to the libs when referring to ICE, and the immigrants we are talking about, we mean " illegal" immigrants, and they just skate over the term and say we love our immigrants.
If they would only admit that truth, agree or disagree , then we could begin a discussion

But these word games are encouraged until it then serves them to illustrate, we mean" ILLEGAL" orders!! lol What a stupid and tiring clown show.

Hey Doug, I've been calling it a clown show for a long time. I've used words like "crazy" and "lunatics" more times than I can count. And "madness" and "insane". And a few others to describe this political and cultural and spiritual rot.

But all those descriptors are downstream of the one that truly epitomizes this entire nightmare: EVIL

I think most people know this on some level but are in varying states of denial. So we laugh and makes jokes etc. That was my process anyway. But at its core it's demonic and just plain evil.

Identity Marxists use the same words as everyone else but they often have entirely different meanings. There are countless examples of this. "Woman" is one. They'll use its literal meaning when it's politically convenient i.e. when they recognize they've lost the public, and then use the newly invented activist meaning amongst themselves or when brainwashing vulnerable young people. And then when called out on this trick they will vigorously deny they're doing it.

It makes them very slippery. The average person just can't keep up with all the co-opting and rebranding of language. And even in the cases when a significant number of average folks do finally catch up, they'll just rebrand all over again. Critical Theory has been rebranded now, as has ESG. I forget what the new names are.

For them the ends justify the means so they have no moral qualms with the endless lying and duplicity and manipulation. Whatever will get them to the finish line is fair game. Lying and hypocrisy are used as strategic weapons. Whatever is good for the "revolution", and in this case it's flooding the country with illegals but denying they're actually illegal. The main goal for all Marxists is revolution, but here we're getting yet another rebrand to keep them out of trouble. The foot soldiers on the ground can openly call for revolution, but the politicians are sort of forced to speak in code (or just lie).

I'm pretty certain these far left lunatics attend secret schools that teach them how to weaponize language and to socially engineer the masses. They are trained to become parasites of the minds of many, they are psyche parasites.

....and yes, extremely demonic and evil! demonic psyche parasites.

They have planted the seed of rebellion towards the most powerful structures in this nation, and thus at the same time, captured the narrative. This is "Bigtime" to say the least. They keep doing this crap because they know they can get away with it, they know they are above the law. They are convinced their "skills" of being psyche parasites and experts at language manipulation that they can squirm through any kind of accountability for their demonic and evil manipulations.

In my opinion, they are extremely talented at what they do, they keep getting away with it.


Well they just attend universities :). Harvard, Yale, Columbia etc. Not all that secret. That's where it all gets concretized.

But I know what you're saying, and I think you're correct! In a very real way, what we're up against is a form of linguistic sorcery, not just word games or weaponized language.

And it truly is an ancient form of mental warfare. Majik.

For instance, when you dig into Marx a little, you'll find out that he wasn't really an economist or political theorist or whatever the hell everyone says he was. He was an occultist. And a strong argument can be made he was a flat out Satanist (his early writings strongly suggest so). Marx is the godhead of all this leftist sh!t. Everything they do, including the language manipulation, is distinctly Marxian.

Colleges and universities are occult indoctrination centers, just under a different name. The students are taught linguistic sorcery, just under a different name. Everything they do is buried under layers of misleading language, but it's all done right in plain site. Even the students don't know what they're truly being taught. They take it all at face value.

The students (and just people in general) have been weakened and demoralized thru a series of diabolical processess that have been taking place since at least the 70's. So people - particularly young people - are pliable and naive. Never before in history have there been so many mentally ill young people (and many of the rest suffer from a form of induced mental illness, I'd say). So they are primed to be easily swallowed up by this occult hypnotism (and it can be accurately called hypnotism I think. and there's also a possession element to it I believe).

The masses (in general) have been engineered to ignore or poo-pah or just flat out not notice this sinister doublespeak (which allows it to thrive) and the rest have been engineered to exploit it for ideological ends (politicians, MSM, student radicals). It's a circle of madness that feeds on itself in this way.

This is all a very windy way of saying that when a free thinking, autonomous individual is observing blatant lies being spoken and imbibed by millions of people (whether about illegals, the border, or anything else) and he's sitting there thinking, How is this possible?? Does anyone actually believe this??? Well, that's sort of what's happening. At least that's how I see it.

[thepainterdoug]

Mike, agreed on the marxist bloodlines in their methods. and I say pretty much every day, does anyone actually believe this?

and in a busy pre occupied soundbite existence most all live in, its all seductive speak easily taken in, believed and spit out to others.

Regarding the border, its amazing that so many people believ it all started with Trump. what a horrible person he is harassing our citizens.

So few dont even ask themselves how we got here? Hello Border Czar harris. Hello Mayorkis, chief criminal. and all these people saunter off unscathed, with new titles new careers or just on sabbatical

[Rizotto]

Isn't taught in military schools to NOT obey illegal orders? Anybody learned anything from the outcome of the Nuremberg trials?
"I was just following orders" turned out to not be a valid excuse for criminal actions.

The senators who are calling on USA army to defy illegal orders are probably referring to the Trump administration's orders to bomb small boats off the coast of Venezuela, killing dozens of civilians, which is a crime according to international law. Especially since Trump has NOT produced a single proof that these boats trafficked drugs.
And even if they transporting drugs, the USA military has absolutely no jurisdiction to bomb civilian boats in Venezuelan coastal water or international waters.
We all know that it's not about drugs anyway, it's just the latest criminal USA attempt to provoke a war with Venezuela, which the USA has been trying to regime-change for decades so as to have easier access to its rich resources.

For those of you boasting about this, and pushing for blind obedience to criminal orders, just remember that's how the USA has become the most hated, the most dangerous country in the world. Remember the Iraq war that killed a million Iraqis, based on false pretext of WMDs that turned out not to exist. So that the USA could pillage Iraq's resources, and enrich Dick Cheney's Haliburtons contracts. It's disgusting.

[Mike Gorman]

Mike, you are of course absolutely correct, the language craft being employed by all exponents of the "Woke" factions is very familiar to me: I was a tertiary student in the early 1980's, and later on in the early 90's - I have been guilty of being a recidivist student, firstly to gain a Bachelor degree & later on I sampled a few Graduate courses in philosophy, IT, adult education, so of course I was exposed to the nascent 'Post Modern' flavors that were then coming into the Australian universities via California/European linguistics schools, you know the 'Semiotics' which became so favored from the 1980's going forward: I was in a unique position to assess this because it was the beginnings of this cultural decay, the previous 'paradigms' of classical critical thinking, and the stature of classical philosophy was being dismantled right in front of me! All replaced with the complete rejection of any concept of "Meaning" - this was significant because it illuminates precisely how these seemingly intelligent, studious people are able to achieve these feats of psychological contortion, to perform the linguistic calisthenics necessary to come out with all of this category confusion, and conceptual replacements.
Language is absolutely the source of this 'Woke' religion, this is how it was able to gain such a strong foothold of our Western cultures, I feel that I was given quite a privileged opportunity to witness this transition of our classical Western thinking tradition, into the present very strange situation where people feel they cannot in all conscience define a 'Woman', for example, if you extrapolate this right through our media/cultural production circles it is very clear how we have arrived at this juncture: it is all about our language, as we speak, so we think, so we act. Just saying.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Mark has copyrighted that one with his 'clown show' thread:thumbsup:

Clown World, though I don't take credit for that at all. Who originally coined that phrase I've no idea, but it's perfectly apt! :beer:

[Bill Ryan]

Mark has copyrighted that one with his 'clown show' thread:thumbsup:

Clown World, though I don't take credit for that at all. Who originally coined that phrase I've no idea, but it's perfectly apt! :beer:Alex Christoforou. :)

https://www.youtube.com/@AlexChristoforou/videos

[Mike]

Mike, you are of course absolutely correct, the language craft being employed by all exponents of the "Woke" factions is very familiar to me: I was a tertiary student in the early 1980's, and later on in the early 90's - I have been guilty of being a recidivist student, firstly to gain a Bachelor degree & later on I sampled a few Graduate courses in philosophy, IT, adult education, so of course I was exposed to the nascent 'Post Modern' flavors that were then coming into the Australian universities via California/European linguistics schools, you know the 'Semiotics' which became so favored from the 1980's going forward: I was in a unique position to assess this because it was the beginnings of this cultural decay, the previous 'paradigms' of classical critical thinking, and the stature of classical philosophy was being dismantled right in front of me! All replaced with the complete rejection of any concept of "Meaning" - this was significant because it illuminates precisely how these seemingly intelligent, studious people are able to achieve these feats of psychological contortion, to perform the linguistic calisthenics necessary to come out with all of this category confusion, and conceptual replacements.
Language is absolutely the source of this 'Woke' religion, this is how it was able to gain such a strong foothold of our Western cultures, I feel that I was given quite a privileged opportunity to witness this transition of our classical Western thinking tradition, into the present very strange situation where people feel they cannot in all conscience define a 'Woman', for example, if you extrapolate this right through our media/cultural production circles it is very clear how we have arrived at this juncture: it is all about our language, as we speak, so we think, so we act. Just saying.

Well said Mike!

As I was reading this I was thinking of Winston O'Brien in 1984 visiting the proles with the intent to pick their minds as to 1) how Big Brother emerged and 2) what life was like prior to Big Brother. They were the only ones to consult, as they hadn't been thoroughly brainwashed, and some of the older ones were unique in that they existed both prior to and during Big Brother.

I'm not calling you "old" by the way lol, and certainly not a "prole", but that book entered my mind because as you said you truly do have a unique point of view on this having been around the universities during the inception of all this. That's fascinating, because although I know - having listened to people like Yuri Benzemov etc - that this thing has been in the works since the 60's and 70's, I didn't think the Marxist/postmodern marriage occurred until relatively recently.

Note: Since I realized I read Doug's original post while distracted with about a million other things, I just reread it slowly and carefully and now realize to my embarrassment that I've only been sort of partially on topic so far. Sorry Doug:)

[SilentFeathers]

This isn't about Trump blasting Venezuelan drug boats out of the water illegally, this is about the far lefts dominion voting machine apparatus and servers being operated in Venezuela.

The seditious 6 and the rest of the far left scumbags are pissed Trump is about to shut that down too. The lefties are getting desperate and are likely to do something really drastic and chaotic soon.

Seems many of the talking heads on X and other platforms have forgotten all about the Dominion/Venezuela voter fraud connection.....The whole drug thing is a cover story in my opinion and Trumps is basically securing support to go in there and shut down the voting fraud situation being run from in there and will likely do a regime change and take their oil while he's at it.

[Rizotto]

OMG! so Trump isn't blowing boats off the coast of Venezuela because of drugs, it's just that he's trying to get to the voting machines in Venezuela...
I hope Silent Feather, you're just kidding, are you?

Next, they will claim the Trump command to regime-change Venezuela has absolutely nothing to do with pillaging its resources.
Personally, I won't get into fancy language interpretation debates. I will only look at the results of USA interventions as evidence of its intentions: destruction, murder and pillaging of Venzuela.

Here's a short clip of Max Blumenthal listing these crimes:

Max Blumenthal wipes smile off US official's face

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHNAXDvGR4A

[SilentFeathers]

OMG! so Trump isn't blowing boats off the coast of Venezuela because of drugs, it's just that he's trying to get to the voting machines in Venezuela...
I hope Silent Feather, you're just kidding, are you?



I'm actually not kidding. I didn't quite use the right "Language" in my post, I forgot to place the word "just" in the sentence.

The sentence should of been written like this.... "This isn't JUST about Trump blasting Venezuelan drug boats out of the water illegally.

Sorry for ruffling your feathers ;)

I'm sure it's about drugs, regime change, and pillaging resources, but I also think it's about payback for the involvement of interfering in the US elections also, unless I'm completely wrong about the Dominion/Venezuela connection..

[thepainterdoug]

i just want to remind all the members here at Project Avalon that you don't have to adhere to Bills rules and guidelines, if you feel those rules and guidelines are against your moral ethical values and reasoning.

It's not that Bill has done such a thing, but if he does, i and 5 other members here, making 6 of us, are forewarning you .
Mike, Silent feathers, Mark Star Mariner, Mike Gorman and Painter doug are united and serving all this notice

[SilentFeathers]

By the way, nothing will happen to these 6 people when it comes to them being charge or sanctioned in any way.

Pam Bondi will likely be replaced before any of the seditious 6 will be held accountable for any wrong-doing.

[Raskolnikov]

Didn't members of the military who disobeyed illegal orders of mandatory vaccination during covid ultimately get fired? Down is up, wrong is right, evil is good...

[T Smith]

Isn't taught in military schools to NOT obey illegal orders? Anybody learned anything from the outcome of the Nuremberg trials?
"I was just following orders" turned out to not be a valid excuse for criminal actions.



Agree. But the problem is when the interpretation of so-call illegal orders becomes subjective. Or political. An entire political party--and perhaps even half the population--may disagree with, say, orders to deport illegal persons in the country. But those people are illegal inhabitants, per the law, and until such time when the law is modified or changed, the order to deport them for the crime of being illegally in the country is not an illegal order. It's a lawful order. It may be a politically unpopular order, but not an illegal one.

We can assess and debate any other so-called illegal orders as they come. And I'll be the first to jump on the call to check any such order from authorities in either political party that crosses the line. But I truly do not believe those are the type of orders motivating the impetus of the insurrection the six power brokers on the left are calling for. They are essentially calling (or planting the seeds) for an insurrection against the political policies of the legal government.

Once you begin encouraging military to not to obey politically unpopular policies, we will surely find ourselves on a slippery slope to unrest, chaos, even civil war.

[Rizotto]

Isn't taught in military schools to NOT obey illegal orders? Anybody learned anything from the outcome of the Nuremberg trials?
"I was just following orders" turned out to not be a valid excuse for criminal actions.



Agree. But the problem is when the interpretation of so-call illegal orders becomes subjective. Or political. An entire political party--and perhaps even half the population--may disagree with, say, orders to deport illegal persons in the country. But those people are illegal inhabitants, per the law, and until such time when the law is modified or changed, the order to deport them for the crime of being illegally in the country is not an illegal order. It's a lawful order. It may be a politically unpopular order, but not an illegal one.

We can assess and debate any other so-called illegal orders as they come. And I'll be the first to jump on the call to check any such order from authorities in either political party that crosses the line. But I truly do not believe those are the type of orders motivating the impetus of the insurrection the six power brokers on the left are calling for. They are essentially calling (or planting the seeds) for an insurrection against the political policies of the legal government.

Once you begin encouraging military to not to obey politically unpopular policies, we will surely find ourselves on a slippery slope to unrest, chaos, even civil war.

Which military orders exactly are the 6 politicians claiming to be illegal? (I should have asked that clarification at the beginning!) I assumed it was the order to attack civilian boats off the Venezuela coast. But it could be the order to bomb Iran this past June, without any provocation? Or any of the extra-judicial assassinations the CIA is infamous for? Several commentators on this thread seem to be discussing something else than military orders.

Of course, the military has little say on policy decisions, but they do have to follow a code of conduct for military attacks, probably a USA military code, in addition to international law.

At least some military personnel are aware of the legal requirements. Recently a USA admiral who had been in charge of the operation to bomb boats off Venezuela's coast has resigned from his position:

US Admiral Resigns Amid Unprecedented Escalation Against Venezuela, Boat Bombing Continues
"A US Navy Admiral and Commander of US Southern Command resigned unexpectedly—a result of tensions with the War Department over operations in his theater of command—namely Venezuela. Additionally, a fourth, and fifth boat of unidentified sailors were executed by US drone or air strike on the high seas between Venezuela and Trinidad and Tobago."
(Full article at link below)
https://www.worldatlarge.news/2025/10/17/us-admiral-resigns-amid-unprecedented-escalation-against-venezuela-boat-bombing-continues/

[Rizotto]

https://phys.org/news/2025-11-obey-law-troops-told-illegal.html

November 22, 2025

Just follow orders or obey the law? What US troops told us about refusing illegal commands

As the Trump administration carries out what many observers say are illegal military strikes against vessels in the Caribbean allegedly smuggling drugs, six Democratic members of Congress issued a video on Nov. 18, 2025, telling the military "You can refuse illegal orders" and "You must refuse illegal orders."

The lawmakers have all served either in the military or the intelligence community. Their message sparked a furious response on social media from President Donald Trump, who called the legislators' action "seditious behavior, punishable by death."

One of the lawmakers, Sen. Elissa Slotkin, told The New York Times that she had heard from troops currently serving that they were worried about their own liability in actions such as the ones in the Caribbean.

This is not the first time Trump has put members of the military in situations whose legality has been questioned. But a large percentage of service members understand their duty to follow the law in such a difficult moment.

We are scholars of international relations and international law. We conducted survey research at the University of Massachusetts Amherst's Human Security Lab and discovered that many service members do understand the distinction between legal and illegal orders, the duty to disobey certain orders, and when they should do so.

The ethical dilemma

With his Aug. 11, 2025, announcement that he was sending the National Guard—along with federal law enforcement—into Washington, D.C. to fight crime, Trump edged U.S. troops closer to the kind of military-civilian confrontations that can cross ethical and legal lines.

Indeed, since Trump returned to office, many of his actions have alarmed international human rights observers. His administration has deported immigrants without due process, held detainees in inhumane conditions, threatened the forcible removal of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and deployed both the National Guard and federal military troops to Los Angeles, Portland, Oregon, Chicago and other cities to quell largely peaceful protests or enforce immigration laws.

When a sitting commander in chief authorizes acts like these, which many assert are clear violations of the law, men and women in uniform face an ethical dilemma: How should they respond to an order they believe is illegal?

The question may already be affecting troop morale. "The moral injuries of this operation, I think, will be enduring," a National Guard member who had been deployed to quell public unrest over immigration arrests in Los Angeles told The New York Times. "This is not what the military of our country was designed to do, at all."

Troops who are ordered to do something illegal are put in a bind—so much so that some argue that troops themselves are harmed when given such orders. They are not trained in legal nuances, and they are conditioned to obey. Yet if they obey "manifestly unlawful" orders, they can be prosecuted. Some analysts fear that U.S. troops are ill-equipped to recognize this threshold.

Compelled to disobey

U.S. service members take an oath to uphold the Constitution. In addition, under Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the U.S. Manual for Courts-Martial, service members must obey lawful orders and disobey unlawful orders. Unlawful orders are those that clearly violate the U.S. Constitution, international human rights standards or the Geneva Conventions.

Service members who follow an illegal order can be held liable and court-martialed or subject to prosecution by international tribunals. Following orders from a superior is no defense.

Our poll, fielded between June 13 and June 30, 2025, shows that service members understand these rules. Of the 818 active-duty troops we surveyed, just 9% stated that they would "obey any order." Only 9% "didn't know," and only 2% had "no comment."

When asked to describe unlawful orders in their own words, about 25% of respondents wrote about their duty to disobey orders that were "obviously wrong," "obviously criminal" or "obviously unconstitutional."

Another 8% spoke of immoral orders. One respondent wrote that "orders that clearly break international law, such as targeting non-combatants, are not just illegal—they're immoral. As military personnel, we have a duty to uphold the law and refuse commands that betray that duty."

Just over 40% of respondents listed specific examples of orders they would feel compelled to disobey.

The most common unprompted response, cited by 26% of those surveyed, was "harming civilians," while another 15% of respondents gave a variety of other examples of violations of duty and law, such as "torturing prisoners" and "harming U.S. troops."

One wrote that "an order would be obviously unlawful if it involved harming civilians, using torture, targeting people based on identity, or punishing others without legal process."

Soldiers, not lawyers

But the open-ended answers pointed to another struggle troops face: Some no longer trust U.S. law as useful guidance.

Writing in their own words about how they would know an illegal order when they saw it, more troops emphasized international law as a standard of illegality than emphasized U.S. law.

Others implied that acts that are illegal under international law might become legal in the U.S.

"Trump will issue illegal orders," wrote one respondent. "The new laws will allow it," wrote another. A third wrote, "We are not required to obey such laws."

Several emphasized the U.S. political situation directly in their remarks, stating they'd disobey "oppression or harming U.S. civilians that clearly goes against the Constitution" or an order for "use of the military to carry out deportations."

Still, the percentage of respondents who said they would disobey specific orders—such as torture—is lower than the percentage of respondents who recognized the responsibility to disobey in general.

This is not surprising: Troops are trained to obey and face numerous social, psychological and institutional pressures to do so. By contrast, most troops receive relatively little training in the laws of war or human rights law.

Political scientists have found, however, that having information on international law affects attitudes about the use of force among the general public. It can also affect decision-making by military personnel.

This finding was also borne out in our survey.

When we explicitly reminded troops that shooting civilians was a violation of international law, their willingness to disobey increased 8 percentage points.

Drawing the line

As my research with another scholar showed in 2020, even thinking about law and morality can make a difference in opposition to certain war crimes.

The preliminary results from our survey led to a similar conclusion. Troops who answered questions on "manifestly unlawful orders" before they were asked questions on specific scenarios were much more likely to say they would refuse those specific illegal orders.

When asked if they would follow an order to drop a nuclear bomb on a civilian city, for example, 69% of troops who received that question first said they would obey the order.

But when the respondents were asked to think about and comment on the duty to disobey unlawful orders before being asked if they would follow the order to bomb, the percentage who would obey the order dropped 13 points to 56%.

While many troops said they might obey questionable orders, the large number who would not is remarkable.

Military culture makes disobedience difficult: Soldiers can be court-martialed for obeying an unlawful order, or for disobeying a lawful one.

Yet between one-third to half of the U.S. troops we surveyed would be willing to disobey if ordered to shoot or starve civilians, torture prisoners or drop a nuclear bomb on a city.

The service members described the methods they would use. Some would confront their superiors directly. Others imagined indirect methods: asking questions, creating diversions, going AWOL, "becoming violently ill."

Criminologist Eva Whitehead researched actual cases of troop disobedience of illegal orders and found that when some troops disobey—even indirectly—others can more easily find the courage to do the same.

Whitehead's research showed that those who refuse to follow illegal or immoral orders are most effective when they stand up for their actions openly.

The initial results of our survey—coupled with a recent spike in calls to the GI Rights Hotline—suggest American men and women in uniform don't want to obey unlawful orders.

Some are standing up loudly. Many are thinking ahead to what they might do if confronted with unlawful orders. And those we surveyed are looking for guidance from the Constitution and international law to determine where they may have to draw that line.

[jaybee]

By the way, nothing will happen to these 6 people when it comes to them being charge or sanctioned in any way.

Pam Bondi will likely be replaced before any of the seditious 6 will be held accountable for any wrong-doing.


I'm sure you noted that one of the six said, explicitly.... (@33 secs).....'and know that we have your back'


jJtRLsRWsac


Assuring all the officials, service people and key figures that NOTHING will happen to them if they refuse orders from the Trump Administration - in other words they have the cooperation of the (infiltrated) judiciary - from top to bottom and just the other day the James Comey and Letitia James indictment were dismissed (https://www.infowars.com/posts/breaking-democrat-judge-dismisses-james-comey-letitia-james-indictments)by a democrat appointed judge...

I think this latest move is because they know Trump's getting very frustrated with the lack of action when it comes to prosecutions and thinking of bringing in Military Tribunals to circumvent the whole corrupted judiciary - when these people say...'we've got your back'...they really mean it - and have the organizations involved in their control... maybe ONLY Military Tribunals can by~pass their strangle hold on the law and it's application...?

No one from the top to the bottom is getting 'done' because it's all under the Deep State Globalist's control... well some people are getting 'done' like Tina Peters for example - but only those who threaten The Agenda...

Nothing new under the sun.....?

[jaybee]

In a very real way, what we're up against is a form of linguistic sorcery, not just word games or weaponized language.

And it truly is an ancient form of mental warfare. Majik.



'linguistic sorcery' is a very helpful way to describe what's happening and the majority? of the Public appear to be under it's spell in varying degrees....via the MSM but also the creeping influence over the Internet - via paid influencers...(etc)

it's amazing how all pervading and successful (although the impression of success is part of the 'spell') the anti Trump PSYOP is - because he is pushing in the opposite direction of the Deep State Globalists - trying to lift America out of it's covertly organized decline ....

The main thrust of the Spell at the moment IMO is to split the MAGA movement and take over the House and Senate at the Mid Term elections... preparing the ground for the inevitable election rigging -

there's a saying - 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'....and Trump Voters being manipulated into withdrawing their support (as if there's a viable alternative at the moment) shouldn't cut off their nose to spite their face...

[T Smith]

Which military orders exactly are the 6 politicians claiming to be illegal? (I should have asked that clarification at the beginning!) I assumed it was the order to attack civilian boats off the Venezuela coast. But it could be the order to bomb Iran this past June, without any provocation? Or any of the extra-judicial assassinations the CIA is infamous for? Several commentators on this thread seem to be discussing something else than military orders.



That's just it. Despite the article you cite above, which implies cause and justification for a call to mutiny, they aren't suggesting the military refuse to obey any one specific order--they're keeping the suggestion intentionally vague, which casts a wide umbrella over subjective interpretation, and into the dubious territory of political disagreement.

If these six came out and specifically said something like, "you don't have to follow orders to bomb innocent civilians,"--although arguably an unprecedented public provocation--that would be something we could discuss/debate. But then again, every US President since Kennedy has issued those kind of orders; what exactly makes Trump's orders different--or something that would justify mutiny against this administration that wasn't justified with previous administrations?

To be clear, I don't agree with US military intervention at all--from Vietnam to Iraq, to enabling Israel (which is committing illegal orders in droves, and by the day)--all of these atrocities make the alleged US drone strike against Venezuela look like popping a pimple relative to stepping on a landmine. Besides this, there are mechanisms in place Congress can pursue legally to rectify the Commander in Chief's alleged illegal action that doesn't entail a blanket call for mutiny. What we're seeing unfold with the opposition party looks more like a political insurrection ploy rather than a legitimate concern about so-called illegal orders issued by the Commander in Chief.

Just my take...
.

[Raskolnikov]

It's purposely misleading. They're keeping it vague and open to interpretation with the express intent of triggering some of the hopelessly addled woke mob that made it into the military who've been hypnotised by the spell of language inversion. For them, everything Trump says is a lie because he's Hitler so they're inviting them to give in to the anger that lies just beneath the surface and then feel completely justified in doing so. If woke is anything, it's angry. So they're sowing the seeds of division within our military and giving them the go ahead for refusing any orders that don't agree with their idealogy, which, by the way, is everything that comes out of Trump's mouth.

[Raskolnikov]

Former CIA officer, Elissa Slotkin, admitting she's "not aware of things that are illegal" concerning Trump's actions.

92wJ9htlqws
I wonder why they keep referencing Nuremburg when telling the troops to disobey Trump...

[thepainterdoug]

wait! are we talking about Bill and our are seditious 6 or the story in the news?:chuckle:

happy thanksgiving all
pd

[JackMcThorn]

I wonder why they keep referencing Nuremburg when telling the troops to disobey Trump...

In case you are not asking a rhetorical question it is because the left thinks Trump is a dictator or a nazi or the like. It's kind of funny that left, without a basis in fact, resorts to name-calling; the weakest action regarding any disagreement.

[Raskolnikov]

I wonder why they keep referencing Nuremburg when telling the troops to disobey Trump...

In case you are not asking a rhetorical question it is because the left thinks Trump is a dictator or a nazi or the like. It's kind of funny that left, without a basis in fact, resorts to name-calling; the weakest action regarding any disagreement.

Thanks. Yes, that was sarcasm. The constant reference to Nuremburg when encouraging the troops to disobey Trump is a level of manipulative coercion and deceptive propaganda unseen even in Trump's first term. They just keep smacking the public in the face with "Trump is Hitler" and it's time for Nuremburg 2.0 They've really perfected their craft:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%2Fid%2FOIP.jJbYgS3rTip28YJyBjoDDQHaFR%3Fpid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=1a7fef5ba0b14d4d5ffef8cc867ecfa3d31c3c2e0d361d00948f9223ed9463f1&ipo=images

[East Sun]

Hi Doug
May I ask what the cross figure in your logo/symbol means?



Happy Thanksgiving! everyone...!

[thepainterdoug]

Hi East Sun. that illustration I made as the logo of my Musical www.Hypnotta.com Its an angelic spirit being. it relates to my show which is yet to be produced.
i like it and thought it would make a good logo here as well

[SilentFeathers]

Ironically right after these devious 6 tell the military not to follow Trumps "Illegal" orders, 2 National Guardsmen are shot in DC.....hmmmm, coincidence?????

I wonder if these seditious 6 are proud of themselves and laughing about this.

This may be the beginning of a series of shootings like this.....

[Raskolnikov]

I really appreciate Stephen Miller's no nonsense approach. Apologies, I don't know why I couldn't find a better video of this, YT censorship? But this is excellent and worth a listen.

j09ZvWp5-o8

[SilentFeathers]

This is from just a couple of days ago from one of these 6 traitor idiots....


Here is Senator Slotkin just a few days ago claiming the National Guard was about to start shooting at American civilians.

An insane and dangerous lie.

Now, two troops were shot in Washington, D.C.

https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1993793159982403949

[SilentFeathers]

That video these 6 evil scumbags put out was a psychological trigger and they absolutely are not stupid and know exactly what they've done.

....and I'm not holding my breath for Bondi to do anything, she's pretty much about useless.

Things are escalating and what is another issue is that tomorrow we have parades and all kinds of other gatherings going on, then Friday is the largest shopping day of the year. These 6 scumbags know exactly what they've done and their timing is no accident. This is beyond criminal, it's downright demonic and evil.

People need to watch their backs tomorrow bigtime! (and the days following). I see no way to de-escalate what's coming. Sh*ts about to hit the fan in my opinion.

[jaybee]

~
~

Alex Jones getting to the heart of the matter (as usual).....

BREAKING:
GLOBAL EXCLUSIVE: Elements Of The CIA Are Working With Democrats To Launch A Violent Coup Against President Trump & The American People! (https://www.infowars.com/)

WATCH: The Leader Of The Seditious Six Has Been Identified!!! (https://www.infowars.com/posts/watch-the-leader-of-the-seditious-six-has-been-identified)


Former CIA Director John Brennan is the man in charge of laying the groundwork for a new ultra-violent American civil war that is designed to not only drive President Trump from office, but to collapse the American republic. Alex Jones breaks the latest:

Oh boy... Alex does not pull any punches...video on link...




‘Seditious Six’ Democrats Freak Out Over FBI Investigation (https://www.infowars.com/posts/seditious-six-democrats-freak-out-over-fbi-investigation)

[SilentFeathers]

The way these seditious six are doubling down on their ridiculous rhetoric I would say they are preparing the masses for a huge event (false flag) and will try to do a coup against Trump based on his response to this false flag event.

I was thinking the 2 National Guardsmen being shot was the actual false flag event considering the CIA is mingled in to the mix, but, now I'm not so sure.

I think something else is in the works and is coming, something that'll basically ruin everyone's Christmas; Instead of a Merry Christmas it'll be a Scary Christmas.

The Lunatic Left, Demonic Deep State, and Ghoulish Globalists hate Christmas, they'll likely make their move from now till Christmas Eve. They (the demonic bastards) will get a extra dose of enjoyment knocking the Christmas Spirit out of the people.

Watch this and tell me Mike Kelly and the rest of these seditious six are not pulling off a ginormous psyops and have an evil agenda they are preparing for.....

Trump Derangement Syndrome at it's finest!

X3PYKHW2_pQ

[AutumnW]

So, if I am hearing correctly, many on this thread think it's okay for soldiers to follow clearly illegal orders? This is a perfectly appropriate message the "Seditious Six" recorded. It's highly unlikely they're referring to rounding up illegal aliens in the US. It's more likely about Venezuela.

You understand that one of the reasons that Venezuela is so impoverished is the US sanctioned the country years ago while oil prices were cratering? If there is a lot of drug activity in the country, they're just following the same playbook most sanctioned countries use to make money for food.

Those drugs aren't even making their way to the US. Drugs to the US come from the Western SA countries like Colombia and Mexico through Mexico.

And why would a president declare (an illegal) war on Venezuela while springing the president of Honduras from prison?

"Hernández was convicted of leading one of the largest criminal enterprises ever tried in a U.S. court, responsible for facilitating the import of over 400 tons of cocaine into the U.S." courtesy Google AI

There is far more evidence to support Hernandez being a crook who is rightfully imprisoned than there is for the false claim of Venezuelan drugs flooding the US. It's so much nonsense. Meanwhile several innocent fishermen have been blown up in the Caribbean.

Oh, and btw, Viva Chavez. If there is any justice in the universe, his memory will be redeemed.