Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

[Zook]

I would like your honest opinions on this matter, please. Thank you.

I've long held the view that commercial sex is a major dividing wedge between men and women. Division, of course, being one of the main tools in the dark empire's toolbox of controlling protocols. Commercialized sex being the modern face of the oldest profession.

:smow::typing:

ps: The argument of free sex is an entirely different argument with its own merits, demerits, and narratives.

[Gone001]

If you want me to sit here and type "I wish Playboy wasn't around", well... I just can't do that lmao. Seriously though, I get what you mean. I don't think it's the main wedge however. We've grown up with tons of conditioning that make people feel men are above women. It's in the workplace, its on t.v., movies, sporting events, in our homes, it's in our schools and lets not forget this has been going on long before the porn industry had it's start. A friend of mine was actually turned down for a mechanic position because she is a female and was told "can't have you here don't want any sexual harassment problems"; I couldn't believe it :|, she's quite a talented mechanic as well! Anyway, the sex industry is a large contributing factor but society has many other obstacles to overcome before men and women are seen as equal by the majority; quite sad isn't it? At least this community has it's priorities in order :).

Cheers,

Aldous

[Heartsong]

there are many "Hugh Hefners" in the modern world. He just was in the right place at the right time. It's unfortunate for the relationship of man and woman to be objectified. Man is typified as unsatiable, woman as always available and neither have any brains or moral compass.
Too many women have grown up feeling that they're not good enough or attractive enough to be sought after or loved. The Hefner model for men is just as bad.

[Flash]

If you want me to sit here and type "I wish Playboy wasn't around", well... I just can't do that lmao. Seriously though, I get what you mean. I don't think it's the main wedge however. We've grown up with tons of conditioning that make people feel men are above women. It's in the workplace, its on t.v., movies, sporting events, in our homes, it's in our schools and lets not forget this has been going on long before the porn industry had it's start. A friend of mine was actually turned down for a mechanic position because she is a female and was told "can't have you here don't want any sexual harassment problems"; I couldn't believe it :|, she's quite a talented mechanic as well! Anyway, the sex industry is a large contributing factor but society has many other obstacles to overcome before men and women are seen as equal by the majority; quite sad isn't it? At least this community has it's priorities in order :).

Cheers,

Aldous

In Canada Aldous your friend just has to wave the flag "discrimination based on sex" and she will have the job right away - maybe with some govt agency slightly involved. If she does not know, please tell her. However, when given the job, she will be tested over and over and over and over again, and yes, she may be harassed, and I don't necessarily mean sexual harrassment. Men egos can be very large when playing in "their" field. So, if she still want the job, she should go for it. That is how women go forward.

As for commercial sex, although I may conceive Aldous enjoyment of playboy magazine, I think that this kind of thinking brings exactly what Aldous is talking about when mentioning his mechanic female friend not landing a job. It perpetuate the feeling of "me man possess you woman" which is not really advantageous for harnonious relationship and even for evolution, IMHO. It disjoint sex and relationships, which doesn't feel that fullfilling for most women after a while. OK I spell the bean: Commercial sex: THIS IS LAZINESS MEN! Not having to build anything nor having to make any effort. Not even having to primitively hunt for your woman, what kind of lazyness is that! And disjointing your heart, why doing it? No better than or for women gold digger for sure either. iMHO cause otherwise none of my business.

[Second Son]

I believe that NOTHING under the sun can be judged to be completely good or bad... but used to excess and for the wrong purposes, ANYTHING can be bad. I mean let's face it, you can OD on water if you drink too much of it.

As an artist who draws from the nude model often, I can appreciate the female form. The old masters seem to have had a similar appreciation. But i also like to draw portraits which can really capture a person's soul if done correctly. I think one can have the nude form and a sense of humanity at the same time, and without a doubt, Hef's puplication is the least risque mainstream gentleman's mag out there.

The subject of objectification (did I just type that?) is a complicated one. To a degree I think it a positive thing for a woman to take charge of her own sexuality rather than let society dictate the terms. If this means posing for a centerfold to pay her way through college, so be it.

The part about marketing a largely unattainable Barbie Doll archetype to instill angst and futility in the world's female population is a negative perhaps.

At the end of the day sex sells, it is after all the oldest profession.

[Star Gazer]

Hugh Hefner prays upon the insecurities of young women--each "girlfriend" has her hair bleached blonde and her breasts augmented.

[Arrowwind]

I think it is worth noting that women ran most of Hugh Hefners business operations

Its a mixed bag when it comes to Hugh Hefner I think.

I do not like to see men or women objectified by their sexuality.
and this is a very dangerous thing especially for someone who has
no personal psychological stamina and are vulnerable
to the opinons and forces of others.

But on the other hand the sexual repression that Hugh Hefner and his female companions rose out of
was very very sick.

In the 50s and 60s many women were teriffied of their sexuality. Many never had orgasims..
and many men didn't know what they were doing in bed... they were terrible lovers.
Relationships revolved around many false ideas about sex and love
and how people "should" interact.

Women stayed with men they feared and hated much more than they do today.
More than now the marraige was a sanctioned prostitution that the woman endured
because she knew no way out. Her sexuality was her
tool to bind herself to her own repression.
reinforced by society and "cultural expectations"

Being able to put sexuality on the table and discuss it I think has a lot to do with the Playboy movement.
I think it spurred much talk and much experimentation.

Remember, Hefner popped up at the onset of the sexual revolution... if he and the women around him
didn't start it themselves.

The whole sexual revolution thing has unlocked people to know and express their very own sexual identities
and has broken down false belief systems about love, happiness, companionship, commitment etc

Now the playboy thing was not my thing but I think many women have benefited from the sexual revolution
Men too. Although not discussed as much, I suspect there were almost equal numbers of men who were terrifed of their sexuality
and could not perform or very effectively sexually bond with a woman.

As woman started to see their sexuality as an integral part of their power to live and express their life force though,
I cannot see how this would not but help them to free themselves from many other types of psychological bondage.

Sex without shame, guilt, fear, manipulation and control is a huge change.
Also women have learned to say no when they need to say no
instead of being a perpetual victim in a relationship.

You cannot be free unless your sexuality is unfettered.
How you choose to use that unfettered sexuality is personal preference
generally based on what fulfills you as a total person.
Ones sexuality is core to who you are.
It is the fire at the base of the spine.
Those people who have not freed their psychology
and belief systems keep it crammed down there.

This does not mean that you will live nor act like a playboy bunny to be unfettered.
You will just be who you are, but free to express and live according to your deepest desires
and inclinations for your self fullfillment, without fear, guilt,shame or social controls on you.

Those woman who did the playboy bunny thing, or similar types of expression
only did it because thats a part of who they are, thay needed exploration and expression
in the type of arena this provided, or the sexual revolution in general provided.
The vast majority of them went through it and went on to their next process of learning
and evolving in relationships and mastering their sexual identies.

I know not all woman endured the playboy bunny thing well.
some were unstable and succumbed to drugs and even suicide.
But I suspect that they did not have internal personal stamina
to explore their reality in this manner,
in a sense they got over their heads in the situations around them.
In every endeavor there are always winners and loosers,
and many women succomb to drugs and suicide without such escapades.
Thinks of the middle class woman who did not work, raised children,
suffered depression, took valiums like candy, all while waiting for
her meaning and purpose of life to come home from work,
that husband who plopped on the sofa, drank beer and ignored her..
there were millions of these.. there probably still are but
I think not the way it was in the 50s and 60s or into the 70s.

It takes great courage to thwart the system
thwart your family
thwart all the social constructs.
some didn't do so well
many more did fantastically well

[DeDukshyn]

I would like your honest opinions on this matter, please. Thank you.

I've long held the view that commercial sex is a major dividing wedge between men and women. Division, of course, being one of the main tools in the dark empire's toolbox of controlling protocols. Commercialized sex being the modern face of the oldest profession.

:smow::typing:

ps: The argument of free sex is an entirely different argument with its own merits, demerits, and narratives.

OK - without touching on free sex, but staying within today's paradigms, I'd say it's a little bit of both commercial influencing the divide, and taking advantage of that divide as well. it's a bit perpetual. but ultimately perceptual. I'm the type of person who likes to stir the pot to get a better mingling of flavours in the soup, so I'm not opposed to things of controversy as that gets thing in the open for growth. So in that light I can't say I have many judgments in this area. Commercialism is what it is, content is second in my opinion.

[loveandgratitude]

Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
Before Hefner the calendar in a college room was a wholesome Nordic looking girl in a letter sweater. Women were put on a pedestal. After Hefner, we saw women as sex toys.

In a 2005 interview with Time magazine, Hefner said he is a direct descendant of William Bradford, a Pilgrim who came over on the ship Mayflower.
Hefner is a decendant of the original Mayflower?
The Bidens, Albrights, Gates, Wesley Clarks, John Kerry, etc have all discovered their roots........... same bloodline

On the list of zionists American philosophers From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is -

Hugh Hefner, founder of Playboy magazine
Now his daughter runs the Playboy enterprise, continuing her fathers 'wonderful' legacy.
Gloria Steinem is now responsible for the 'de-moralization' of our woman.


Al Goldstein, the publisher of Screw, said in his own words - QUOTE
“The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that
Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.”
Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it
penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream (and is no
doubt consumed by those very same WASPs), its subversive character
becomes more charged. …

Extending the subversive thesis, Jewish/zionist involvement in the X-rated industry can be seen as a proverbial two fingers to the entire moral establishment in America. …

Opposition to Jewish/Zionist extremist subversion of Gentile, Christian or Muslim morality is frequently defined as anti-Semitic “hatred” in the zionist dominated media. Abrams writing in a Jewish journal for a presumably Jewish audience writes matter-of-factly about the “atavistic hatred” against us by zionist pornographers and their motivation to “weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion.”

Zionist/Jewish involvement in porn is a well know fact. , By this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority and resulting in the de-moralizing the culture.
Obviously, there are no articles in the mainstream media exposing zionist “atavistic hatred” against other people who are not chosen. It is stated in the Protocols that the corruption of morals was one of the pathways the detroying American and other countries cultures.


Jewish professor of American history at Aberdeen University in the United Kingdom Nathan Abrams claims that Jews are the driving force behind the modern pornographic industry and that their motivation is in part to destroy Gentile morals. HE IS QUOTED AS SAYING:

Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the 1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman replaced Marx, Trotsky and Lenin as required revolutionary reading...Pacheco was one Jewish porn star who read Reich’s intellectual marriage of Freud and Marx...In light of the relatively tolerant Jewish view of sex, why are we ashamed of the Jewish role in the porn industry? We might not like it, but the Jewish role in this field has been significant and it is about time it was written about seriously..." A QUOTE FROM ABRAMS

It is a matter of Toto pulling back the curtain and seeing who is behind the curtain of detioration. Giving faces and names to who is involved in the degragation and moral corruption of our youth, woman through manipulation of the media, music industry, porn industry etc.

Our society is being corrupted at the foundations through the de-valuing of morals and principals. Once we become aware of how and who is doing this, then we will know how to change this. It is time to turn the tide on this low vibrational corruption of youth and people.

[Sol Va]

I think we all agree that Hefner kicked off the popular acceptance of pornography.

(the hippie/counterculture revolution of free love/sex was a whole different thing)

I submit that TPTB concocted "pornography" as a way of dumbing and damning the masses
into emotional stupidity and another addiction that would separate people, separate love from sex...
especially since the controllers dont understand or feel love and wouldnt want US to feel it.

Pornography Debases Men, Women & Culture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaA1Y-aypD0&feature=related


Pornography's Link to Sex Trafficking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSRxpVDNpGI

[Erin]

I have no problem with commercial sex so long as everyone is a willing participant. Same goes for prostitution/sex workers. In fact, it'd be a lot safer if that were legalized, imo. And Hugh Hefner has done a lot to combat censorship in the media. He also saved the Hollywood sign - twice.

I think the divide between men and women has to do with more than just sex (...although men objectifying women over and over in the media does irritate me). Its origins are deeply seated within the rise of agrarian social constructs in early human history, where the division of labor was largely based on gender. And as society evolved out of that, the gender roles remained cemented (until only recently have they been substantially fought against). For example, in the US women couldn't vote until 1920. Institutionalized misogyny is still highly prevalent in the workplace here - men consistently get paid more than women, get better promotions, and it is extremely hard for women to break the glass ceiling in many industries (science, filmmaking, politics). Anti-abortion laws prohibit women's rights to bodily autonomy.

I could go on and on. But ultimately, I agree with Arrowwind - the repression of sexuality is probably more dangerous than hypersexuality. Although ideally there should probably just be a balance.

[Gone001]

[/QUOTE] Flash- In Canada Aldous your friend just has to wave the flag "discrimination based on sex" and she will have the job right away - maybe with some govt agency slightly involved. If she does not know, please tell her. However, when given the job, she will be tested over and over and over and over again, and yes, she may be harassed, and I don't necessarily mean sexual harrassment. Men egos can be very large when playing in "their" field. So, if she still want the job, she should go for it. That is how women go forward.

As for commercial sex, although I may conceive Aldous enjoyment of playboy magazine, I think that this kind of thinking brings exactly what Aldous is talking about when mentioning his mechanic female friend not landing a job. It perpetuate the feeling of "me man possess you woman" which is not really advantageous for harnonious relationship and even for evolution, IMHO. It disjoint sex and relationships, which doesn't feel that fullfilling for most women after a while. OK I spell the bean: Commercial sex: THIS IS LAZINESS MEN! Not having to build anything nor having to make any effort. Not even having to primitively hunt for your woman, what kind of lazyness is that! And disjointing your heart, why doing it? No better than or for women gold digger for sure either. iMHO cause otherwise none of my business.[/QUOTE]

Well you said "In Canada Aldous your friend just has to wave the flag "discrimination based on sex" and she will have the job right away - maybe with some govt agency slightly involved. If she does not know, please tell her. However, when given the job, she will be tested over and over and over and over again, and yes, she may be harassed, and I don't necessarily mean sexual harrassment. Men egos can be very large when playing in "their" field. So, if she still want the job, she should go for it. That is how women go forward." Thats why she won't do it because then she'll be harassed worse. I already told her to go to the labour board it's in her hands now. And as for "As for commercial sex, although I may conceive Aldous enjoyment of playboy magazine, I think that this kind of thinking brings exactly what Aldous is talking about when mentioning his mechanic female friend not landing a job." That's not how I think, that's pretty clear in the rest of my post, I decided to start with a joke, laughter is good for the soul you know? I respect women everyday and in my 21 years of life have never purchased a single article of pornography. I'll thank you not to lump me in the same category as those that perpetuate the feeling of "me man possess you woman".

Cheers,

Aldous

[kudzy]

For further research;

"A Cruel Hoax, Feminism & The New World Order" by Henry Makow Ph.D

page 98 "Playboy was not a spontaneous phenomenon. It was social engineering designed to foster homosexuality and family breakdown."

http://www.henrymakow.com/archives.html

If you've read the book or are familiar with the work of Dr. Makow I'd be interested in your opinion.

[Erin]

For further research:

Feminism 101: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/the-faqs/faq-roundup/

ETA: I'd like to thank Zook for making this post. I don't see feminist issues discussed a lot in the alternative media circles. It's interesting to see what people here think, whether or not I agree with them.

[loveandgratitude]

posted twice......sorry

[Flash]

I understood very well you were making a joke. I made one back to you.. or on you. and it worked! You know, on this side of the country, the other end from you I mean (quebec) it is anyhow quite alright that guys look at Playboy, we really don't formalise that much with it. Heavier commercial sex however brings, I think, what I describe in my previous post.

Sorry if I hurt you, i did not mean it, just wanted to laugh.


." That's not how I think, that's pretty clear in the rest of my post, I decided to start with a joke, laughter is good for the soul you know? I respect women everyday and in my 21 years of life have never purchased a single article of pornography. I'll thank you not to lump me in the same category as those that perpetuate the feeling of "me man possess you woman".

Cheers,

Aldous[/QUOTE]

[Gone001]

I understood very well you were making a joke. I made one back to you.. or on you. and it worked! You know, on this side of the country, the other end from you I mean (quebec) it is anyhow quite alright that guys look at Playboy, we really don't formalise that much with it. Heavier commercial sex however brings, I think, what I describe in my previous post.

Sorry if I hurt you, i did not mean it, just wanted to laugh.


." That's not how I think, that's pretty clear in the rest of my post, I decided to start with a joke, laughter is good for the soul you know? I respect women everyday and in my 21 years of life have never purchased a single article of pornography. I'll thank you not to lump me in the same category as those that perpetuate the feeling of "me man possess you woman".

Cheers,

Aldous[/QUOTE]

Haha alright alright fair enough. Had to step up to my defense, the last thing anyone wants to be pegged as is a porn perv:P lol.

Cheers,

Aldous

[slipsheet]

George Bush...John Kerry...Hugh Hefner...cousins.
I wouldn't have publications by any of them on my coffee table.

[witchy1]

I've long held the view that commercial sex is a major dividing wedge between men and women. Division, of course, being one of the main tools in the dark empire's toolbox of controlling protocols. Commercialized sex being the modern face of the oldest profession

Meh, whatever floats your boat. I couldnt do it for money, (at least if I give it away, I get to choose who gets it) My comments only apply to consenting adults I might add.

Is it a dividing wedge - dont think so Zook, there is a reason its been around for ever...... both ladies and men didnt cotton on to the fact that the opposite sex (ha, or same sex) would actually pay for it until relatively recently as far as I am aware. - maybe because currency is just new as well.

Nothing about feminism, Its just a business transaction - nothing more, nothing less.

I think the Dark empire uses the division tactic in this way only for the people following the darkness sickness!

Prostitution is lawful both in Australia and NZ. Same sex union legal in NZ - dont think Aus is too far away from that.

Commercialized activities serves a great purpose - imagine the poor souls who couldnt get at all, ever. How sad.

[Arrowwind]

So some folks like Hefner date back to the Mayflower? What the hell does that have to do with anything?
I am a direct decendant from the mayflower.... Sir Francis Cooke... look it up... me and probably 20 percent of the rest of America.

That Jews are on a conspiracy to tear down Christians instuitions is also BS. And I have noted there are a number of Jew haters on this forum and I find it egregious.

I would contend that as women are sterotyped, so are men. Most of the men I have known in my life were very conscious, awake, sensitive or at least willing to be trained;) there are many millions out there like them now... and as women went through a revolution so have men over the last 40 years.

They did not partiicpate in pornography, or prostitiution, nor beat their wives, nor neglect their kids. They had great respect for themselves and for women.... as women grow and attain their power that frees men to attain their power of heart. (You can always judge the quality of a man by how he treats his mother.. regardless of how neurotic mom may be.)


I do not agree that there is a universal sactified social living arrangement for a man and a woman. We have been trained by doctrines written my whom may I ask? What priest, what pope? what political leader? all enforced by guilt and shame and control of the population, and of course what better way to control the population than to control woman and her procreation, dominated by a man, making her subject to too many children and incapable of making any kind of living, short of prostitution for thousands of years? .... remember, woman's capablitlity to forge a living is a rather new societal event. For most of us within this past generation or two!!

If a woman wants to sell her body or her image it is her business. If a man wants to purchase it thats his business. For the first time in a thousand years women can actually make a living doing it... and that is there business, run by them with no "middle man" anymore for many.

In Native American culture in many tribes the family structure was not fully dictated by the society by rules and laws. Individuals sought out their own pleasue and passion in extended relationships, polygamy both in more than one wife, or more than one husband, or homosexualtiy. Extra marital affairs were condoned and often expected. Where those who were content with monogamy so be it. If not they found other ways for their personal life.... yet their families were very tight. communities well integrated in serving and helping one another... so who are the dam rule makers anyway? and what rules do you ascribe to and why?

There are still many men and women who are not free and are slaves to sex empires, lies, control, manipulation, hatred, lower passions, greed, thievery, assault, child abuse.... and just like us, they are on their journey looking for love.... they just don't know where to look nor really what it is exactly that they are looking for....they are the sociopaths of the world.

But once you get a glimpse of what you are are actually looking for is love and you can name it and start looking for that... then you start to become fully human.

Just a note about the hippy culture and "free love". Many women were really hurt during this era... believing that love could be free.. but they only got their legs spread, used and tossed aside in the name of free love.. there was not necessarly much compassion at all, and many "hippy" men walked off and left children.. there was nothing free about it for many women. . At least the playboy bunny collected a wad in her bank account to pay for her abortion or to afford to raise a child on her own.

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to loose and freedom aint worth nothing cause its free.

What all this experimentation is about either though playboy or through the hippy culture or whatever culture you may be looking at are attempts for people to find their heart, regardless of how perverted, repressive, how controlled by institutions of state or church, or even in how shattering the revolution might be to the psyche. We are all just looking for love,, but we know not what love is so we keep looking here and there in all things we do... and we learn... if at the very least we learn, yes, this is not love, nor it it even freedom, so we will keep looking and trying something else until I find it.... and sometimes until we lay broken and shattered only in finding as we put the peices back together that love is what we are looking for and it is not to be found in another, but to be found but only in ourselves.

"and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make".... in other words, the only love you really have, that you really posess is what is in your own heart. What someone else shines on you is not yours but to bask in for only a moment and if you don't have love in your life you can only look to yourself for resolution for all else is transient... and you cannot own it, it will never be yours and you will always lack and be in fear of loss.

What ever way you figure that out, how ever you get there, whatever journey you go on to find your love, it does not matter.

[Arrowwind]

Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our Aryan woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
Before Hefner the calendar in a college room was a wholesome Nordic looking girl in a letter sweater. Women were put on a pedestal. After Hefner, we saw women as sex toys.

.

Before Hefner woman were regularly beat by their husbands, there were laws on state books to determine the size of a switch a husband could use to whip them with. Women were not permitted to work, except in very select jobs, education was not promoted, women were condenmed as simple minded, incapable, and of little intellect. They could not vote, they did not have control of their children or any rights pertaining to them. They were ignored medically, told they were hysterical, and little to no sicientific research revolved around the female anatomy. All property belonged to the husband, and if she decided she really needed to leave she left with nothing.
They could not leave abusive husbands becasue they were not taught how to survive in the world. Women frequently were not permitted to speak on politics or any subject pertaining to the culture at large. They were forced to have sex when they didnt want to and the feared abandonment or beating if they refused. They were not suppose to have orgasim and most women didnt even know it was possible. They felt shame for their bodies, and suffered under false modesty.. They generally were thankful when their old husbands were dead so they could be free from the chore.

now tell me again how Heftner disrespected women? was it in how they ran his business for him? was it in how poorly he paid them? Was it in how he denied them education? was it in how he beat them? was it in how he forced them to have children? was it in how he kept them locked in the house? was it in how he didn't permit them to speak? was it in how he chained them to the kitchen? was it in how he frequently saw to it that they had good financial advice? just what was it now? .... oh yes, I remember. He allowed them to enjoy their sexuality and to explore their humanness and profit from it at the same time. He helped them to use their sexuality to empower themselves.... must be a sin its so good.

If a man degrades a woman it has nothing to do with Hefner. He learned it at home.

[Erin]

Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our Aryan woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
Before Hefner the calendar in a college room was a wholesome Nordic looking girl in a letter sweater. Women were put on a pedestal. After Hefner, we saw women as sex toys.

In a 2005 interview with Time magazine, Hefner said he is a direct descendant of William Bradford, a Pilgrim who came over on the ship Mayflower.
Hefner is a decendant of the original Mayflower?
The Bidens, Albrights, Gates, Wesley Clarks, John Kerry, etc have all discovered their roots........... All crypto jews

List of Jewish American philosophers
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hugh Hefner, founder of Playboy magazine
Now his daughter runs the Playboy enterprise, continuing her fathers 'wonderful' legacy.
Gloria Steinem and her ilk also responsible for the 'de-Aryanisation' of our woman.


Al Goldstein, the publisher of Screw, said
“The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that
Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.”
Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it
penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream (and is no
doubt consumed by those very same WASPs), its subversive character
becomes more charged. …

Extending the subversive thesis, Jewish involvement in the X-rated industry can be seen as a proverbial two fingers to the entire WASP establishment in America. …

Opposition to Jewish extremist subversion of Gentile, Christian or Muslim morality is frequently defined as anti-Semitic “hatred” in the Jewish dominated media. Abrams writing in a Jewish journal for a presumably Jewish audience writes matter-of-factly about the “atavistic hatred” against us by Jewish pornographers and their motivation to “weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion.”

Jewish involvement in porn, by this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority: they are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion. Astyr remembers having “to run or fight for it in grammar school because I was a Jew. It could very well be that part of my porn career is an ‘up yours’ to these people.” …

Obviously, there are no articles in the mainstream media exposing Jewish “atavistic hatred” against Gentiles by the promoters of pornographic depravity. Abrams even goes on to talk about the roots of this revolutionary Jewish attack on European values.

Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the
1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman & Hugh Heffner replaced Marx,
Trotsky and Lenin.

...are you kidding me? I find this post so insulting on so many levels.

[Teakai]

I think commercialised sex is an industry which exists by exploiting humanities most base desires/needs and often perversions.
The fact that it's rampant is indicative imo that we are out of balance as a whole, and definitely spiritually - as such we cannot have a proper and honest relationship with ourselves, let alone an intimate realtionship with someone else.

The sex industry exists wholly because of its victims.

All these major revolutionary changes that come about - especially if they divide humanity and/or keep them base and unspiritual, usually does fall into the provence of the 'ptb' and their divide and conquer routine. I believe the sex industry is just another of them.

[Lord Sidious]

Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our Aryan woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
Before Hefner the calendar in a college room was a wholesome Nordic looking girl in a letter sweater. Women were put on a pedestal. After Hefner, we saw women as sex toys.

In a 2005 interview with Time magazine, Hefner said he is a direct descendant of William Bradford, a Pilgrim who came over on the ship Mayflower.
Hefner is a decendant of the original Mayflower?
The Bidens, Albrights, Gates, Wesley Clarks, John Kerry, etc have all discovered their roots........... All crypto jews

List of Jewish American philosophers
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hugh Hefner, founder of Playboy magazine
Now his daughter runs the Playboy enterprise, continuing her fathers 'wonderful' legacy.
Gloria Steinem and her ilk also responsible for the 'de-Aryanisation' of our woman.


Al Goldstein, the publisher of Screw, said
“The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that
Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.”
Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it
penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream (and is no
doubt consumed by those very same WASPs), its subversive character
becomes more charged. …

Extending the subversive thesis, Jewish involvement in the X-rated industry can be seen as a proverbial two fingers to the entire WASP establishment in America. …

Opposition to Jewish extremist subversion of Gentile, Christian or Muslim morality is frequently defined as anti-Semitic “hatred” in the Jewish dominated media. Abrams writing in a Jewish journal for a presumably Jewish audience writes matter-of-factly about the “atavistic hatred” against us by Jewish pornographers and their motivation to “weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion.”

Jewish involvement in porn, by this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority: they are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion. Astyr remembers having “to run or fight for it in grammar school because I was a Jew. It could very well be that part of my porn career is an ‘up yours’ to these people.” …

Obviously, there are no articles in the mainstream media exposing Jewish “atavistic hatred” against Gentiles by the promoters of pornographic depravity. Abrams even goes on to talk about the roots of this revolutionary Jewish attack on European values.

Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the
1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman & Hugh Heffner replaced Marx,
Trotsky and Lenin.

What you are describing is part of a concept called Tikkun Olam.
The belief is that the world is sick and needs to be healed.
Sounds nice, no?
What it actually means, is that the world doesn't follow the entity the jews call god.
So what is being done is that all of the structures of civilisation are broken down so that the entire edifice can be replaced.
They use various fronts such as communism and the like, with other things like porn to bring the vibration of people down.
If you want to see one group working on this, google chaban lubavitch.
These are one of the groups that makes life hard for what is called the ''little jew'' the one that knows nothing and means no harm to anyone.
When things turn sour, they pay, not the troublemakers. This is yet another part of the anti-semitism paradigm I spoke about in the holocaust thread.

On the topic of hefner and porn, this at the very least stops your vibration from raising. At worst, it can bring it down again.
All you have to do to see where it is going, is look at what was promoted in the 70's, then the 80's, so on till today.
It is getting more and more degenerate.

[galactica]

degrading the divine feminine ...

nano-technologies ... the conditioning ... money/power ... promote base emotions ... stimulate addiction to pornography ...

rots the soul ...

it's also about control and manipulation ...

I envision a world without this ...

Wouldn't though point at one person ...

[Zook]

Good Morning Good Avalon Good Loveandgraitutde!


Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our Aryan woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
[...]


mod_HAT_on

Avalon is not a forum for Nazi propaganda. Civil discourse is paramount in the charter. Please edit your post to remove references to Aryan and Jews. If you have 10 individuals in a room, and 1 is a certifiable idiot, that does not compute to ten idiots in the room. It computes to one certifiable idiot against nine in the room. You are free to post the facts; not the innuendo. Thank you for your cooperation.

mod_HAT_off

[Jendayi]

regardless of hefner's impact and the damage done to women... the trick is to start healing this... within ourselves..
as men, we can transform the lower impulses that come from this field that hefner has had a big play in...
everytime you see a woman depicted in this manner.. you can thank her for preventing an even worse scenario (if there weren't any women who lended themselves to be objects of desire.. answering to the imbalance within ourselves then i believe there would even be more violence, rapes an abuse) after giving thanks you can connect with her eternal being or soul and invite her with all your heart to recognise her inner goddess.. this can be done by men for women anytime.. be it when you see them on a billboard, a magazine, a movie or in real life.. we have that power to set them free..
in return i would like the women who are able to forgive any man who has been blinded by this perversion of true sexuality, to do so.. we need your forgiveness... i ask to be forgiven for everytime i have given in to these temptations.. as i forgive myself..
only when men invite women to show their divine essence will they do so..
only when women can forgive the men for being so engrossed by these pictures can we move beyond the illusionary form of it all.
So please.... may all true women and men embrace their true connection... let sexuality and physical expression be given back it's rightful place within the body that is our temple...
we are united... imagining we are not does not help our cause... we are all and everything is us... to point fingers will not resolve the fracture between feminine and masculine..
and for men who are able to work with energies.. expose yourself to these images... let the impulses well up in that special place... and instead of an act of lust like masturbating.. see if you can raise this feeling to your hart... look the woman who is exposing herself in the eyes and thank her for being where she is... when you feel an urge to dive into your lust.. invite the collective inside you and transform those energies to something wonderfull.. we can do three things when we are confronted with these images.. we can ignore them, we can surrender to them.. or... and this is a big one... engage the true eternal being that is behind the facade and invite them in...
we are so strong.. our sexuality is such a wonderfull mode of expression... let it not be distorted by these perversions.. and when it does distort... do what you can to fix it..
An example... every once in a while i will seek out a video or image that displays these women in an this sexual distorted way.. i let the images enter my being and observe their effects on my body consciousness.. when desire kicks in to i.e. masturbate.. i do so fully conscious and while this happens i will calm myself down again... let the energy that has built up down below enter my heart and will connect with the masculine collective to ask if any soul wishes to release the pain and lust that holds them in a place of sexual dependance.. often waves of pure love come over me.. and my former desire transforms into a gentle carressing of the scars inside myself and the collective.. thus healing them..
sex/making love is a wonderful way of expressing one self.. to heal and to create...
we need to start inviting in our own and eachother's divinity.. as a sacred marriage between the polarities that is man and woman... sacred sexuality is one way of achieving this..
True men need true women... and vice versa..
to be pure is to bo honest... it is not the amount of light you carry.. but how much you are willing to show who you are which determines your pureness of being..
why would there otherwise be such a thing as PURE evil? pure evil is very honest, does not deceive you.. it shows itself as it is.. no more no less..
so... honesty is the best policy... especially about one self..
i love you..

[modwiz]

Hugh Hefner prays upon the insecurities of young women--each "girlfriend" has her hair bleached blonde and her breasts augmented.

Fake hair and fake breasts. Yuck!!!!

[9eagle9]

Depends on the woman.On how she conducts herself. I've never walked into that sort of situation and felt victimized, its all up to me and how I conduct myself. That means I'm in control of any situation. I've worked in male oriented fields my whole life and save for a few incidents have not been treated any differently. Because I dont' treat them differently. I've supervised building and construction sites , and I've seen women in the same sort of supervision capacity just implode and self destruct. They walk in with an attitude of suddenly having power by having authority over men, "not going to take any **** from men", and carry on to the site the exact same patriachal mindset that the presumably were trying to overcome. That's the first thing they tell the males. Not taking any **** from you. On a building site that's all that happens is **** hurling. Sexual harassment? Walk into a lounge or lunch room and the men are talking about nothing but boobs, beer, and broads is a shock? I'd just tune it out it has nothing to do with why I'm there. Why would I take something like that personally? I told one lady, you go home and let your husband beat you and denigrate you but you've got your knickers in a twist because some guy said something about your boobs? Your transferring your victimization from the source and the source is you.

My advice to woman going into a landmine filled with potential sexual harassment. Be better at it than them. It will cease immediately. Men are conditioned by the MEDIA to think they know what pushes a woman's buttons . Boob size, body size, toof fat, too skinny, and arm themselves with our own insecurities. A woman who isn't media conditioned is going to care less. A man (or woman) launches a hurtful remark aimed at pushing buttons and getting a reaction I thank them for noticing.

As far as skill sets, a woman walks into a challenging situation and her knowledge seems to fly out the window. She's put off balance by not remembering what she knows. In December I had interesting conversation with a man who kept insisting my hood latch was messed up. I kept pointing out it wasn't , then he'd back pedal and say "well not THAT latch but the auxiliary back up latch." Dude come on its a Tracker, not the USS Enterprise; there are no secret auxiliary back up systems...." lol. Okay men you see why women get a little bunched up? Be honest.


Then again I see women walk into a man's bull**** trap which is based on his insecurity because she forgets what she knows and what's she's there for. She's already in the uncertain conditioned arena of the 'man' knows better.Or she goes into that other place where everyone should defer to her because she knows how to handle a torque wrench. Everybody, male and female..... Come on, you just know what you know. Its not a contest. If you don't know admit it and lets move forward.

I've never had a problem being a supervisor in either trucking or construction after a few agreements were made with the male staff. Works in reverse though. I have a pretty nice auto workshop with hoist, super compressors, overheads, diagnostics,and paint room. A few men have gotten pissy complaining its not fair a woman should have a set up like that. (I gotta admit I have THE ultimate man cave.) I shrug. Hey, no one is stopping you. I'm certainly not . Stop being so concerned about what I'm doing and attend to your own goals. I'd say it to a woman too. IF you think you're going to walk into a situation and its going to be a challenge....it will.

As far as pornography fixation. I reserve the right not to involve myself with someone who have that sort sexual objectivism. I don't have to overlook it or be openmined about it I just won't go there with the person in question. I have choices.



Flash- In Canada Aldous your friend just has to wave the flag "discrimination based on sex" and she will have the job right away - maybe with some govt agency slightly involved. If she does not know, please tell her. However, when given the job, she will be tested over and over and over and over again, and yes, she may be harassed, and I don't necessarily mean sexual harrassment. Men egos can be very large when playing in "their" field. So, if she still want the job, she should go for it. That is how women go forward.

As for commercial sex, although I may conceive Aldous enjoyment of playboy magazine, I think that this kind of thinking brings exactly what Aldous is talking about when mentioning his mechanic female friend not landing a job. It perpetuate the feeling of "me man possess you woman" which is not really advantageous for harnonious relationship and even for evolution, IMHO. It disjoint sex and relationships, which doesn't feel that fullfilling for most women after a while. OK I spell the bean: Commercial sex: THIS IS LAZINESS MEN! Not having to build anything nor having to make any effort. Not even having to primitively hunt for your woman, what kind of lazyness is that! And disjointing your heart, why doing it? No better than or for women gold digger for sure either. iMHO cause otherwise none of my business.[/QUOTE]

Well you said "In Canada Aldous your friend just has to wave the flag "discrimination based on sex" and she will have the job right away - maybe with some govt agency slightly involved. If she does not know, please tell her. However, when given the job, she will be tested over and over and over and over again, and yes, she may be harassed, and I don't necessarily mean sexual harrassment. Men egos can be very large when playing in "their" field. So, if she still want the job, she should go for it. That is how women go forward." Thats why she won't do it because then she'll be harassed worse. I already told her to go to the labour board it's in her hands now. And as for "As for commercial sex, although I may conceive Aldous enjoyment of playboy magazine, I think that this kind of thinking brings exactly what Aldous is talking about when mentioning his mechanic female friend not landing a job." That's not how I think, that's pretty clear in the rest of my post, I decided to start with a joke, laughter is good for the soul you know? I respect women everyday and in my 21 years of life have never purchased a single article of pornography. I'll thank you not to lump me in the same category as those that perpetuate the feeling of "me man possess you woman".

Cheers,

Aldous[/QUOTE]

[Dragonfly]

To cut a very interesting, important and therefore complex topic short: Hugh Hefner has done a great job to distort the view on women's bodies.
The whole beauty-/sex industry is telling us constantly, how we do have to look like and convey our focus to the very body (material) part of our existence as human beings. A very strong and efficient way of programming.
It's all about material, beauty, sex and other distractions. It's about oppressing the female (and male) principle. It's a perfect backlash and it correlates strongly to religious movements, wherein women were/are oppressed.
A highly recommendable book by Naomi Wolf - the Beauty Myth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beauty_Myth

Kind regards,
Dragonfly

[galactica]

time to stop the harmful/hurtful influencing of humanity ...

time to end this control and manipulation

[9eagle9]

Well yes , a natural human body doesn't come into the world with implants and a Clairol gene that are activated at puberty. An articial mind will create a artifical vessel to carry it. It;s practially compulsory.

These sorts of excursions in vanity can be a good learning lesson though.

My sister has implants. They made her feel good for all of one month. Then one side kept bursting all the time. She finally gave up replacing it. She's walked around for three years deflated on one side and she doesn't care. It's the greatest ego battle and defeat I've ever seen. Her lopsidedness is a badge of honor. She's even made it a good conversation peice from it. .Personally I wouldn't be able to walk around that way, so not encouraged to create those conditions. Natural balance.

I had an ex one time keep asking me, why I don't look like the chicks on tv. Why don't I? THEY don't even look like the way they do on tv.

And if I did look like that tell me what incentive I have for remaining here listening to this **** ? Do you think those women on tv would put up with your hatefulness? I loved that moment. It was an epiphany for me.

Works the same way with off cinema people. I'm not sure how many nights I've suffered through some date where the man is not the least interested in me, has not asked me a single personal question, is not in the least interested in anything inside myself, doesn't ask about nothing, work, famil,y hobbies and just unravels at the mouth like the Attention Whore of Babble On and On an On but.....

by the end of the evening I'm some sort of perfect fit for him.

And I always ask them, "how can you even make that determination knowing nothign about me? Jeez dude, I could be some maniac carefully made up to hide the fact I'd cut your wanky off in the dead of the night. And your not even interested in finding out if that could be a remote possibility before determining I'm your perfect fit." Not to mention you seem to think I have no say so in the matter. Like you've bestowed some honor on me. Your sense of self preservation is decidedly lacking.

This is patriarchal mindset. See how helpless it really is? They're not authorities, they are victims . And that's when I started learning the patriarchal is not some big baddy daddy ruling the world. Its helpless in it's insecurity. More to be pitied than feared.

[Dragonfly]

I had an ex one time keep asking me, why I don't look like the chicks on tv. Why don't I? THEY don't even look like the way they do on tv.


Like this? http://thegloss.com/beauty/megan-fox-is-not-the-new-katharine-hepburn/ (btw I am VERY happy, that she is not the new Katherine Hepburn;))
If he likes plastic.....this is also a mindset....
Interesting for me is also, that the today's beauties often have male features. Women like Megan Fox and Giselle Bündchen do have very edged features.

[Zook]

Good Afternoon Good Folks of Avalon!

Some great posts! Much impressed. It's good to get the pulse of the membership on an issue that binds us all.

If I may share a thought - then two or three because one is never nearly enough - my own train of thought stems from the origin of the species. We were born sexual. We became sensual. Are we returning to sexual again?

The second thought: we were born apart. On the microcosmic scale, we have the man and the woman ... two individuals separated by a broken X-chromosome (e.g. perhaps the woman is key narrative of Charles??). Two individuals coming together to produce the next generation. Two individuals coming together to keep warm against the black heatsink that is night. Two individuals united by love. Two individual units contributing to their individual family unit (amidst other individual family units) to ensure the health of all family units. Two individuals bonded as one. Fast forward to the macrocosm of human society. We now have two genders: male and female. Half the world is male and the other half, female. Now ask yourself this: what allows the two genders to come together and contribute to a healthy human society? What hinders? Is the oldest profession (and sundry manifestations) a feature of primitive society? Of all societies past and forward? Is the ubiquity of commercial sex a measure of a healthy society? Has sexual progression arrived from sexual repression to sexual oppression?

Third thought: is the human body a sanctuary for the human mind and soul, specifically, a healthy mind and soul? If so, are these sanctuaries being undermined by commerce. To wit, is the church that solicits for cash and souls, the sacred church ... or the market church? Can a market church be a sacred church? If not, then who is burning the sanctuaries? Individuals of their own torch? Or is the run amok of firebugs, an order from the throne on coals?

:smow::typing:

ps: Humble opinions all around ... and without the MOD hat on (or pants for that matter!!) <---- a little levity ... er ... mebbe not. You're welcome. :jester:

[9eagle9]

Nope. Not even approaching. Katherine Hepburn had presence and a character that transcended off stage. She was an artist her talent wasn't in just posing and looking good. She was a tad masculine but never unfeminine. She had balls but never appeared to be bitchy or snide. I think shes a perfect example of an alpha female.

Hollywood has confused bitch for intestinal fortitude. Lots of women brag about how tough they are, how much of a bitch they are, that their an alpha female confusing that with femme fatal.

Nope. Just bitchy. Bitch archetype is a good way to hide all manner of woundedness and insecurity.

So is stud muffin.

[Snowbird]

Zook-I've long held the view that commercial sex is a major dividing wedge between men and women.


Second Son-At the end of the day sex sells, it is after all the oldest profession.

The Playboy Club will endure long after Hugh Hefner has passed. Playboy Macao, below, has recently opened and I'm sure will do quite well in that part of the world.

What are we talking about here? We're discussing an incorporated worldwide legal brothel. This is the selling of sex whether or not the act takes place. This type of sex, IMO, divides and contains the male dominated power structure.

What IF, for just a moment, we as a society, remove money and the concepts of barter and trade? Where would this leave the Playboy Corporation and all other forms of businesses that are based upon exploitation? They would not be able to survive. The controllers would no longer have anyone or anything to control.

And that college age young woman would never have to sell her body to Playboy's center-fold in order to afford tuition. Why? Because her tuition would be free. And, in addition, she would have everything in her life that she would need to learn, grow and go forward in life. Sound impossible? Not at all. All WE have to do, is change and demand that this be so.



http://bentrovatoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/javier_lovera_ben_trovato_15.jpg

by Javier Lovera

Playboy Mansion - the biggest little whorehouse

http://www.derober.com/wp-content/uploads/wppa/163.jpg

Playboy Mansion Year Built: 1927 Current Value: $3,382,500 Square Feet: 14,217 Bedrooms: 7 Sins Committed: 14,345,756. (and counting) Bathrooms: 8 Yearly Property Tax: $60,310For the 99.9% of the world who will never visit the Playboy mansion,

Playboy Club-Sands, Macao

e8k1fYMbpTk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8k1fYMbpTk

[Kal]

For further research:

Feminism 101: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/the-faqs/faq-roundup/

ETA: I'd like to thank Zook for making this post. I don't see feminist issues discussed a lot in the alternative media circles. It's interesting to see what people here think, whether or not I agree with them.

Personally I find the feminist movement to be repugnant and destructive to women in western culture. It takes a premise of rights and equality for women (a good thing) and twists it into a biased and often hypocritical viewpoint that is destructive and anything but liberating. Look how so-called feminists treat any woman who does not conform to their preconceived notions of womanhood. The way they slandered and degraded Sarah Palin (who I am no fan of btw, I just feel she was treated very unfairly) during the last presidential election is a prime example. Unless a woman matches their viewpoint and values point for point she is seen as a traitor or "Uncle Tom", they do not really believe in a woman's right to be herself. It is a movement about politics and group think which is anything but liberating.

I also believe that it has been a major factor in teaching and encouraging self-destructive behaviors that cause long-term problems regarding self-esteem and responsibility in both sexes. It has taught countless young women to disrespect their own bodies and treat sex as something casual and meaningless, that promiscuity is an empowering concept that makes them equal to men. By extension it has also changed the male views and values of sex as well to include the value and treatment they place upon women. I am no prude by any means but I do wish I had learned the true value and meaning of sex at a younger age.

Another thing that bothers me about the so-called feminist movement is the concept that women do not need men. The goal should be to teach people to be decent and loving towards each other, not to be exclusionary of the opposite sex. I am big believer that all things are balanced in the natural order of things, the ideal health of any organism or system is dependent on achieving and maintaining this balance. Both women and men should have a sense of independence and the ability to be self-reliant but that does not mean they are not an intrinsically matching set. It is why opposites attract, they complete and balance out the needs of each other.

I was a very cruel and hard man when I was younger and had a wife that reflected and amplified those qualities in me, I was very much a trophy husband to her. Even though I was unhappy in many ways I could not grow as a person in that relationship and environment. It wasn't until I met and loved a woman of caring and kindness, someone that loved me for who I was and wanted me to grow, that I was able to grow as a person and learn compassion and kindness myself. It just took the proper conditions and nurturing for that to happen. Vice versa if a woman does not have a decent man to balance and nurture her most will never reach their full potential or happiness. Even worse a bad man will trample and exploit her, damaging her qualities and the fruit she bears.

The final point I would like to bring up is the concept that abortion (or the great euphemism "reproductive health") is central to a woman being free. I believe in both personal responsibility and that each person deserves a chance to live their life. Teaching and encouraging women to abort their offspring out of convenience to themselves is in my heated opinion teaching women to kill a part of themselves emotionally and spiritually. Maternal instinct and a sense of nurturing are inherent to the female and should be cultivated, not suppressed or culled out.

Just a brief comment on something that would truly take much more space to fully discuss. What it boils down to for me is that we should learn to treat each other properly and to recognize and strengthen the things that each has to offer. Women and men are equal but we are different in our strengths, weaknesses and nature. Trying to make everyone act and think the same never works in any setting, much less in regards to gender.

[9eagle9]

Women were objectified in Victorian times all covered up and then objectified by underdressing them.

What's the difference?

Visual stimulation isn't sexuality. Sexuality is an energy. One should be able to be sexy with a doo rag and sweats on.

He didn't empower sexuality he perverted it and turned into something to turn on to instead something someone tunes into .

He's not to blame. Any who bought into 'a girl in a magazine' is sexuality expression is repressed not empowered, and likely hasn't had enough experience with true sexual intimacy and energy themselves to know the difference. That sort of energy when its authentic always starts outside the bedroom, but its physical expression may end up there.



Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our Aryan woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
Before Hefner the calendar in a college room was a wholesome Nordic looking girl in a letter sweater. Women were put on a pedestal. After Hefner, we saw women as sex toys.

.

Before Hefner woman were regularly beat by their husbands, there were laws on state books to determine the size of a switch a husband could use to whip them with. Women were not permitted to work, except in very select jobs, education was not promoted, women were condenmed as simple minded, incapable, and of little intellect. They could not vote, they did not have control of their children or any rights pertaining to them. They were ignored medically, told they were hysterical, and little to no sicientific research revolved around the female anatomy. All property belonged to the husband, and if she decided she really needed to leave she left with nothing.
They could not leave abusive husbands becasue they were not taught how to survive in the world. Women frequently were not permitted to speak on politics or any subject pertaining to the culture at large. They were forced to have sex when they didnt want to and the feared abandonment or beating if they refused. They were not suppose to have orgasim and most women didnt even know it was possible. They felt shame for their bodies, and suffered under false modesty.. They generally were thankful when their old husbands were dead so they could be free from the chore.

now tell me again how Heftner disrespected women? was it in how they ran his business for him? was it in how poorly he paid them? Was it in how he denied them education? was it in how he beat them? was it in how he forced them to have children? was it in how he kept them locked in the house? was it in how he didn't permit them to speak? was it in how he chained them to the kitchen? was it in how he frequently saw to it that they had good financial advice? just what was it now? .... oh yes, I remember. He allowed them to enjoy their sexuality and to explore their humanness and profit from it at the same time. He helped them to use their sexuality to empower themselves.... must be a sin its so good.

If a man degrades a woman it has nothing to do with Hefner. He learned it at home.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

If a man degrades a woman it has nothing to do with Hefner. He learned it at home.

Probably. But he has a choice to unlearn it by not following suit.

[Arrowwind]

Lord Sidious said: Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the
1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman & Hugh Heffner replaced Marx,
Trotsky and Lenin.

How interesting. It is though Reichian therapy that my friend who was legally blind regained her vision. I think you might do well with some of his technique.

[Arrowwind]

Good Morning Good Avalon Good Loveandgraitutde!


Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our Aryan woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
[...]


mod_HAT_on

Avalon is not a forum for Nazi propaganda. Civil discourse is paramount in the charter. Please edit your post to remove references to Aryan and Jews. If you have 10 individuals in a room, and 1 is a certifiable idiot, that does not compute to ten idiots in the room. It computes to one certifiable idiot against nine in the room. You are free to post the facts; not the innuendo. Thank you for your cooperation.

mod_HAT_off


Yes, I find this writing dispicable... but lets not censor. How will I know this person for what he is if he is censored? Such types of people only become more skilled and manipulative at delivering their lies when they are censored. Lets see them for what they are and call them out when necessary.

[Arrowwind]

Women were objectified in Victorian times all covered up and then objectified by underdressing them.

What's the difference?

Visual stimulation isn't sexuality. Sexuality is an energy. One should be able to be sexy with a doo rag and sweats on.

He didn't empower sexuality he perverted it and turned into something to turn on to instead something someone tunes into .

He's not to blame. Any who bought into 'a girl in a magazine' is sexuality expression is repressed not empowered, and likely hasn't had enough experience with true sexual intimacy and energy themselves to know the difference. That sort of energy when its authentic always starts outside the bedroom, but its physical expression may end up there.



Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our Aryan woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
Before Hefner the calendar in a college room was a wholesome Nordic looking girl in a letter sweater. Women were put on a pedestal. After Hefner, we saw women as sex toys.

.

Before Hefner woman were regularly beat by their husbands, there were laws on state books to determine the size of a switch a husband could use to whip them with. Women were not permitted to work, except in very select jobs, education was not promoted, women were condenmed as simple minded, incapable, and of little intellect. They could not vote, they did not have control of their children or any rights pertaining to them. They were ignored medically, told they were hysterical, and little to no sicientific research revolved around the female anatomy. All property belonged to the husband, and if she decided she really needed to leave she left with nothing.
They could not leave abusive husbands becasue they were not taught how to survive in the world. Women frequently were not permitted to speak on politics or any subject pertaining to the culture at large. They were forced to have sex when they didnt want to and the feared abandonment or beating if they refused. They were not suppose to have orgasim and most women didnt even know it was possible. They felt shame for their bodies, and suffered under false modesty.. They generally were thankful when their old husbands were dead so they could be free from the chore.

now tell me again how Heftner disrespected women? was it in how they ran his business for him? was it in how poorly he paid them? Was it in how he denied them education? was it in how he beat them? was it in how he forced them to have children? was it in how he kept them locked in the house? was it in how he didn't permit them to speak? was it in how he chained them to the kitchen? was it in how he frequently saw to it that they had good financial advice? just what was it now? .... oh yes, I remember. He allowed them to enjoy their sexuality and to explore their humanness and profit from it at the same time. He helped them to use their sexuality to empower themselves.... must be a sin its so good.

If a man degrades a woman it has nothing to do with Hefner. He learned it at home.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

If a man degrades a woman it has nothing to do with Hefner. He learned it at home.

Probably. But he has a choice to unlearn it by not following suit.

Men respond to visual stimulation. That is that. It is why women wear make up and tight jeans. It has nothing to do with degrading women. Hefner learned how to make a ton of money on what comes naturally to men. Degrading women is not what its about.
Sexuality always starts with visual and mental contact for 98 percent of the population... more visual for men, more mental for women.
Are you saying that these natural instincts are debased and should be eliminated from the human genome?
I would say that it is this type of stimulus response amongst our ancestors that is the reason that you are sitting at your computer today.

It is an evolutionary process. People will respond to what they are karmically linked to, genetically predestined for and culturally attuned to, and cultural inudendo rises out of karma and genetics. When you evolve out of it that is when you evolve out of it. It is always a matter of personal choice and level of enlightenment.

Many men are not attracted to it and do not purchase it. Many do. My mate is not attracted to pornography but he certainly still has the response mechinisms when faces with sexy scenes on TV. Men are hardwired for it. That energy can be repressed or evolved out of.. but even the great swamis say you never stop being hardwired for it, you just choose not to participate actively.

One might consider reading the works of David Deida... expecially his book "The Superior Man"
I gave it to my sons when they turned 21.

[9eagle9]

]Men respond to visual stimulation. That is that. It is why women wear make up and tight jeans.

This sort of emphasizes my point. Women wear tight make up and jeans because they've been equally conditioned to believe sexuality is visual stimulation. Everyone responds to visual stimulation but it composes only a very small part of authentic sexual expression. It shouldn't replace it.

Are tight jeans sexy?

[Erin]

Personally I find the feminist movement to be repugnant and destructive to women in western culture.

This statement illustrates that you don't have any idea of what feminism actually is, and that you probably didn't even bother to check out the link (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/the-faqs/faq-roundup/) that I provided in what you quoted of my post.

In fact, I'm positive you didn't because your entire post was riddled with mansplaining nonsense. I decided to take the time and debunk most of it for you, in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, you could learn something today.


It takes a premise of rights and equality for women (a good thing) and twists it into a biased and often hypocritical viewpoint that is destructive and anything but liberating. Look how so-called feminists treat any woman who does not conform to their preconceived notions of womanhood.
Most feminists don't have problems with women who decide to become housewives/mothers/caretakers/whatever. That is their choice, plain and simple.


The way [feminists] slandered and degraded Sarah Palin (who I am no fan of btw, I just feel she was treated very unfairly) during the last presidential election is a prime example. Unless a woman matches their viewpoint and values point for point she is seen as a traitor or "Uncle Tom", they do not really believe in a woman's right to be herself.
Some of the ad hominem attacks on Sarah Palin were definitely unwarranted. Other concerns brought up about her were not. But that does in no way discredit an entire movement. There were a lot of people in the feminist community who were angered about the personal attacks against Palin that had nothing to do with her politics.

You also insinuate that all women are inherently pro-women's rights. Unfortunately, this is not true. Many women in this country and abroad have extreme internalized misogyny as a result of growing up in a misogynist, alpha-male dominated culture/environment. Sarah Palin is one of these people. She is extremely regressive for the women's rights movement. For example: advocating abstinence only sex education.


It is a movement about politics and group think which is anything but liberating.
Why shouldn't it be about politics when there is institutionalized misogyny in every aspect of our lives? Why shouldn't everyone think that women should be paid equally as a man for the same job? ETC.

The feminist movement isn't full of mindless robot women who spew man-hate. It is full of diverse women from all walks of life with varying opinions on a lot of topics. Not everyone agrees on everything. Feminism, like scientific thought in a way, is constantly changing and evolving (see: first wave, second wave, third wave, etc).


I also believe that it has been a major factor in teaching and encouraging self-destructive behaviors that cause long-term problems regarding self-esteem and responsibility in both sexes. It has taught countless young women to disrespect their own bodies and treat sex as something casual and meaningless, that promiscuity is an empowering concept that makes them equal to men. By extension it has also changed the male views and values of sex as well to include the value and treatment they place upon women. I am no prude by any means but I do wish I had learned the true value and meaning of sex at a younger age.
To some people sex is casual and meaningless. Why do you care what a woman does with her own body? If it's her choice, it's her choice.


Another thing that bothers me about the so-called feminist movement is the concept that women do not need men. The goal should be to teach people to be decent and loving towards each other, not to be exclusionary of the opposite sex.
"So-called feminist movement"? Are you serious? Also, this statement is a lie. Congratulations, you have yet again proven that you do not know what feminism is.

see also:
FAQ: Aren’t feminists just sexists towards men? (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/faq-arent-feminists-just-sexists-towards-men/)
FAQ: What’s wrong with saying that things happen to men, too? (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/phmt-argument/)


The final point I would like to bring up is the concept that abortion (or the great euphemism "reproductive health") is central to a woman being free. I believe in both personal responsibility and that each person deserves a chance to live their life. Teaching and encouraging women to abort their offspring out of convenience to themselves is in my heated opinion teaching women to kill a part of themselves emotionally and spiritually. Maternal instinct and a sense of nurturing are inherent to the female and should be cultivated, not suppressed or culled out.
WTF? No one is "encouraging" women to have abortions! I am pro-choice because I think it is essential to women's rights to have the choice whether or not to have an abortion. Also, not all women have maternal instincts. Not all women want to have children. Stop using quasi-New Age philosophy to insinuate that a women is in any way "killing" her maternal instinct by having an abortion. Also, easy for you to say, being a man and never having to deal with the "inconvenience" of a pregnancy. Gag me.


What it boils down to for me is that we should learn to treat each other properly and to recognize and strengthen the things that each has to offer. Women and men are equal but we are different in our strengths, weaknesses and nature. Trying to make everyone act and think the same never works in any setting, much less in regards to gender.
This is a contradictory statement. How can you say essentially say that women and men are separate but equal and then go onto say that "trying to make everyone act and think the same" never works? Aren't you implying that all women act one way, and men act another way? It makes no sense.

see also:
FAQ: But men and women are both different! Isn't that obvious? (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/05/10/faq-but-men-and-women-are-born-different-isnt-that-obvious/)

I'm done here (for now, anyway...gotta cool off). Somehow this thread has become a hot mess of anti-semitism and misogyny. Sorry, Zook. :(

[witchy1]

Are tight jeans sexy? Not if its "camel toe" - LOL

[9eagle9]

Sarah Palin drew that sort of attention by not being true to herself. I find some of her Caribou Barbie attitudes offensive in their in-authenticity but that's her expression of pandering to others expectations. Self commercializing. She has a rather engaging humor to her, and yes she may be spunky and I didn't dislike her for that. But my expectations in a government official are a bit higher than appearance and comedic quality. Further emphasizing that visual stimulation wierdness we have going on.. No one would have thought about putting Lucille Ball in office but along those standards she qualified.

There's an energetic rebound involved with Sarah. If one impresses that okay to take to the air in an unsporting and unfair manner to slaughter wolves, should she be surprised if the pack turns on her and slaughters her?

[Arrowwind]

Are tight jeans sexy? Not if its "camel toe" - LOL

camel toe?

[Heather2017]

Just want to say I appreciate this thread and the views expressed. Dealing with sexual issues is part of my spiritual path, and I still have a long way to go.

It's interesting to consider how much of sexuality is nature versus nurture and how it plays a part in our spiritual development. Even though I'm sure I've been a man in previous incarnations, I've had a lot of challenges being a woman in this lifetime and giving my power away to men. Feel like I'm on the way to a more healthy give and take...

¤=[Post Update]=¤




Are tight jeans sexy? Not if its "camel toe" - LOL

camel toe?



Do you really not know, or are you just looking forward to someone explaining? ;)

[Arrowwind]

[I'm done here (for now, anyway...gotta cool off). Somehow this thread has become a hot mess of anti-semitism and misogyny. Sorry, Zook. :(

thanks for taking on what I did not have the intestinal fortitude to do with out getting crass and perhaps even biligerant.;)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

If tight jeans did not stimulate men I assure you women would not wear them as they are a pain in the ass.

of course not all men see things the same.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Do you really not know, or are you just looking forward to someone explaining? ;)

I've never heard that expression before... so I guess I do sincerely need a defination to keep up with the banter here. or maybe I don't really need to know? one can always pm me.

[Heather2017]

Do you really not know, or are you just looking forward to someone explaining? ;)

I've never heard that expression before... so I guess I do sincerely need a defination to keep up with the banter here.


If a woman's pants are too tight in the crotch, others can see the female genitalian shape that somewhat resembles a camel toe...

[Lefty Dave]

Greetings to all
Playboy magazine certainly played a role in most male adolescents' lives growing up in big city America...and also has been a springboard for many writers to get published with alternative views...they were the original 'wikileaks' in my youth...and the monthly pin-ups were on the inside of every locker in high school and in the Service...did they contribute to the degradation of morality? Who's morality? Did they cheapen feminism? No more so than most marketing/advertising for the last 50 years, or some religions for the last 2500 years.
Pointing out who owns the publication is a matter of fact... why they exist is speculation....is there a cult that is hell bent to enslave the world ?..We'll just have to keep our hearts and minds (and eyes) open to that possibility...BUT...what we are here for is to share in the learning of the truths of life...not to insult one another...one resorts to name calling when one runs out of facts to support ones position. Let's stick together in the pursuit of reality...wherever it leads. And watch each others' back.

Blessings to all. Actions speak louder than words

[9eagle9]

Are tight jeans sexy? Not if its "camel toe" - LOL

camel toe?



A phenom that occurs when too much emphasis is put on the jeans and not the woman inside.

[9eagle9]

Lefty Dave: Playboy magazine certainly played a role in most male adolescents' lives growing up in big city America...and also has been a springboard for many writers to get published with alternative views...they were the original 'wikileaks' in my youth...

If the playboy bunnies had written the articles we could say that Playboy was truly empowering to women. Playboy used to be a great place to start one's writing career, rather lucrative too and counts as a professional credit. Not anymore, I think they've closed the door to open submissions.... And perhaps they are very empowered these women. They may be brilliant, they may have warm nurturing personalities. They may be hugely courageous social activists and teachers. Most likely some of them are. When Hughe starts revealing and emphasizing that side of his women I will have to say that he indeed helped to empower them. But a magazine knows it has to give the public what it wants. So admittedly its not just Huge's fault. JOHN (no pun intended) Q. Public created the demand.

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sidious said: Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the
1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman & Hugh Heffner replaced Marx,
Trotsky and Lenin.

How interesting. It is though Reichian therapy that my friend who was legally blind regained her vision. I think you might do well with some of his technique.

No, I didn't say that, I quoted someone else.
And why is it that if I write that the White man has been out and done x to whatever group, that is ok, but when I say that jews did y, then people flip out and fire the anti-semitism flare?
Do I need to post a huge disclaimer the size of an encyclopaedia everytime I post that sort of thing?
Why is it ok for some people to point the finger in one direction, but not in another?
This is some of the conditioning that we have to get out of our systems.

[Ross]

I would like to add this:

Sexual empowerment versus sexuality. One is head, one is heart, they each produce a very a different creation.

Reflect on this for a moment.

Ross

[Arrowwind]

I would like to add this:

Sexual empowerment versus sexuality. One is head, one is heart, they each produce a very a different creation.

Reflect on this for a moment.

Ross

Yes, and I have noticed that I have both a head and a heart. They kind of go together in this body and I suspect that one greatly affects the other. I choose not to close one off in favor of the other and I figure I have an integrated system for a reason.

Sexual empowerment means that your sexuality functions with clear intelligence, edcuation, and no weird pshycological influences based around fear, manipulation, anger, etc etc.

Sexuality is how you live your sexual energy though your energetic life force system. Some live it only through the heart. Others do it with tantra, others have a mixed bag. For some its a total head trip.

I think such definations lack agreement around here. Everyone has sexuality, if it is from the heart or not.

[ArjunaArcana]

Hugh Hefner is the same as any other human being, nothing more nothing less and society will always love him, starting with his detractors.

[loveandgratitude]

Yes, I find this writing dispicable... but lets not censor. How will I know this person for what he is if he is censored? Such types of people only become more skilled and manipulative at delivering their lies when they are censored. Lets see them for what they are and call them out when necessary.

[/QUOTE]

What do you find dispicable......The statement about - .Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
It is my opinion that woman have been portrayed as sexual meat in Men's Sex magazines. Obviously you do not agree with this obsevation, but why do you find it dispicable. Please explain

[9eagle9]

There may be two different core beliefs opposing each other here. Everyone has at least a passing knowledge of David Icke and Jordan Maxwell who make references to Nazi's and Zionism, Jewish Brotherhood and the Aryans. We take this to mean these are not people but titles given to influential groups controlling the world, which is not most people. People applaud this work of where the Aryan came from and the Aryan Brotherhood, etc etc but when its mentioned in conversation its suddenly racist and despicable?

I took it in context, not personally. There's nothing personal.

[Lefty Dave]

[/QUOTE] Lord Sidious

And why is it that if I write that the White man has been out and done x to whatever group, that is ok, but when I say that jews did y, then people flip out and fire the anti-semitism flare?
Do I need to post a huge disclaimer the size of an encyclopaedia everytime I post that sort of thing?
Why is it ok for some people to point the finger in one direction, but not in another?
This is some of the conditioning that we have to get out of our systems.[/QUOTE]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think we get too comfortable here, think we're talking amongst friends, and we are for the most part...BUT...mossadmi6cia lurk here too...and so do the Z's...ready to discourage those who get too close to the most serious problem on our planet.....money. And the most prevalent disease.....GREED.

[Lord Sidious]

I think we get too comfortable here, think we're talking amongst friends, and we are for the most part...BUT...mossadmi6cia lurk here too...and so do the Z's...ready to discourage those who get too close to the most serious problem on our planet.....money. And the most prevalent disease.....GREED.

I would agree on all your points there Dave, but the only way to break the paradigm is work through it, not ignore it.
There are a lot of people who don't conceive of many different things because they aren't spoken of.

[loveandgratitude]

Good Morning Good Avalon Good Loveandgraitutde!


[...]


mod_HAT_on

Avalon is not a forum for Nazi propaganda. Civil discourse is paramount in the charter. Please edit your post to remove references to Aryan and Jews. If you have 10 individuals in a room, and 1 is a certifiable idiot, that does not compute to ten idiots in the room. It computes to one certifiable idiot against nine in the room. You are free to post the facts; not the innuendo. Thank you for your cooperation.

mod_HAT_off[/QUOTE]

'IT IS A TRICK WE USE'' "WE ALWAYS USE IT".
"Whenever any criticizes the jews we bring out the Holocast
If you criticize the jews we will label you "Anti-sematic or a Nazi"
This will immediately get sympathy for the jews."
This is a standard tatic, calling someone anti-semtic or racist or
a nazi and it is used to sabotage or silence anyone who dares questions
or speaks out about the crimes of the Jews.
THIS IS A QUOTE IN AN INTERVIEW BY AMY GOODMAN WITH SHULAMIT ALONI.

Now people are being silenced for questioning the jews by being placed in jail.
Many authors, professors, priests are now sitting in jail becase they were brave and asked a few question and wanted honest answers.
Unless we begin an open honest dialogue about what is happening to our society and who is doing this then we cannot heal the wounds that have been inflicted upon us. I stand for freedom of speech, integrity and honesty and want the truth and will not stop until the truth is revealed. Thank you
I believe another thread has opened on this subject and the comments there are far more controversial than mine were and are being accepted with far more fairness and open-mindness than on this thread. Truth cannot be hidden forever. Now is the time for truth to be revealed whether you desire it or not. Truth may hurt but it will also heal the past, the present and the future. Denial will only keep history repeating itself.
I came into this forum to reveal the connection between moral corrruption and who the main characters. Do your research, do your homework, the truth is hidden in plain sight, it is not hard to find. Truth will set you free.

[Humble Janitor]

I admire Hefner only because he's a self-made man that built an empire not out of pornography (Playboy is HARDLY pornography when compared with Hustler) but out of the pursuit of leisure.

History will judge him in regards to his worth to society. I can't make a judgment.