charlatans

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan

A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception.

I am very very disappointed with lack of skepticism on this site, and coming from me that is one for the books...

Everyone that "claims" such sensational "things" should match the attention they receive with the same amount of proof I believe, or say your piece and then let someone else have a go.

To THE charlatans on this site : you are under the microscope as you should be. The question is, do you know that?

To all under the trance of such individuals - snap the hell out of it would you - we miss you guys.

***NEVER SURRENDER YOUR FREE WILL TO ANYONE OR ANYTHING EVER***
:ballchain:

[witchy1]

Hey wzn, how ya been. Now friend, regarding this post - would you have an expanded explanation or do I have make considered judegment???? You seem to know a little more that I do (and I loathe not knowing)

C'mon spill or else people are going to start guessing (including me) - and that not always healthy. LOL

Oh, just figured it - is the the atticus thing. Funny I always relate charlatans to the health profession.

Love and light
W

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

It's hard to stay positive on this topic - and I did not want to make this thread - however "something" told me to - so there it is.

Naming names is pointless. Yes I noticed the wiki link is about the health profession too. Where I am from the term means scammer or dodgy.

I appreciate Project Camelot a lot - and the work Bill and Kerry have done is beyond words. It was always going to be a target for this kind of thing.

I just don't like seeing the crowd gang up or turn on ANY poster that has an opinion that dares to question the authenticity of these kind of people. It makes me sick when I see that, and to those that are standing up and voicing their opinions and feelings about such people, thank you. I also believe there is a silent majority that do want to speak up - but are afraid too, due to the backlash.

Thanks for your post witchy :)

[witchy1]

I feel your pain wzn. I still havent made up my mind either way to be honest. I keep thinking - what if hes the deal, then thinking what if hes not. Its a provable hypotesis at the end of the day - so time will tell.

I am waiting for a little more proof. Faith is fine thing, but generally has some factual basis - somewhere. When I see it that (anything will do) it will assist, currently there is little. I have gleaned that he is not the messiah and that he does not have all answers. He clearly has a purpose here - will that be disclosed in its entirety? - I sincerely hope so. The only thing that keeps me nterested is that several people had been talking to him for some time before he made an entrance as well as Bills belief. That is why I havnt written it off completely. Would I come out against him as others have. Not blo** likely. There is a chance what he is saying is true. Would he have been believed or survived on any other forum - not in my opinion. He would not have even been listened to without any proof (all those trolls - *shudder*) This was the only way he could have got his message out.

Yes I agree re being put down for your opinion or view. I am very proud of the "freedom of opinion" here. In doing so people must accept that people will disagree with their pov. However there is NEVER any excuse for disrespect. This goes for both sides. This is not what we are about.

If people dont beleive whats happening in there or feel its a sham - then STAY AWAY. Why get yourself all upset over it. There are plenty of other things to busy yourself with.

Those who are hanging onto every word and "thank you" button response and doing an autopsy on every single word written - well that is their choice. Who is anyone to tell anyone else what to do and who to beleive in.

I simply dont have the time, nor the inclination to do this. I do have an interest as in most things, but I dont obsess over it all. I go in every now and then to catch up on what was written by Bill and Charles, but I dont now read every post......... that would put you in the asylum! Its very scary how some people think and act. They also cant be bothered reading the entire thing, because questions are repeatedly asked and all that copying of previous posts - its terrible from a reading perspective.

The other thing is - as you know, its OK to say nothing stand back and review the situation and come to your own conclusions when you feel it is right.

Its not compulsory to point your point of view down where everyone can read it, specially if its against those whose belief is based on faith. How many wars were fought for this cause LOL. Seriously not worth it.

Play your cards close to your chest. Having a secret makes you mysterious and people will turn to you for answers, because they THINK you know something they dont, or have answers to questions they have.

Its just the way people behave. Dunno why.

To each his own.

[Ross]

***NEVER SURRENDER YOUR FREE WILL TO ANYONE OR ANYTHING EVER***

I for one live by this. The big clue here is: all you have any control over is yourself. Period.

For me, understanding this, reinforces my resolve as a sovereign being. (this is not a selfish act)

Yes, we can discuss a better management of Earth, we can formulate an entire different system of social structures, we can do so much more to create a better future for ourselves, our children and all species of this Planet, including any other form of humanoid species or cold blooded beings, but your sovereign right is part of who you are.

Ross

[steve_a]

Hi watchZEITGEIST,

One of the most skeptical people on the forum is probably myself. I'm too long in the tooth to accept things just because they have been said. In the good old days these sort of people had a free-er rein, but these days even some of the 'special' people are being called to odds by people very much like myself.

That being said, there are still a lot of pickings to be taken as there are some very guilliable people out there and even when one tries to de-frock a charlatan, there are ten others just drinking it all in. I reckon I know why, but it would turn this post into a book and I'm sure nobody will want that to happen. Suffice to say, people will see the truth for what it is (or isn't) when the penny eventually drops and they'll slink away in a corner embarrassed to tell anybody they've been had. People can be so fragile.

I'm sure the charlatans on the forum know who they are and know that some people know who they are.

Best regards,

Steve

[Decibellistics]

You've got balls........I like.......balls LOL sorry movie quote from Kung Pow I think.

I just want to be told a story.
It reminds me of a person who watches a movie and asks questions about what is going to happen in the movie, the entire movie, until the end and the person says they knew that they had already figured out what was going to happen in the movie before the end happened.

I think the answers are hidden subtle as well as the poison that has been spewed amongst a large portion of conjecture and speculation.
I think it is causing a massive energetic drainpipe of dwelling and anticipation anxiety and excitement and many many many other emotions and energies. Which......if you want to be......you know.....esoteric about it lolol. That could be considered a manufactured technique that energy vampires use.......but call me crazy

I dunno. I'm pretty neutral on the subject except in one sense. ;)

we are ****ing in control. For someone that has shot through a tunnel of DNA and met an angel, no ****ing machine or old world sorcerer has any power over our manifestation through intent.


"Don Juan explained that making gifts of their disciples to the inorganic beings was precisely what the old sorcerers used to do. The nagual Rosendo did not mean to do that, but he got swayed by the absurd belief that the inorganic beings were under his control.
"Sorcerers' maneuvers are deadly," don Juan went on. "I beseech you to be extraordinarily aware. Don't get involved in having some idiotic confidence in yourself."
"What finally happened to the nagual Elias and Amalia?" I asked. "The nagual Rosendo had to go bodily into that world and look for them," he replied. "Did he find them?" "He did, after untold struggles. However, he could not totally bring them out. So the two
young people were always semiprisoners of that realm." "Did you know them, don Juan?" "Of course I knew them, and I assure you, they were very strange."

During one of our conversations, don Juan stated that, in order to appreciate the position of dreamers and dreaming, one has to understand the struggle of modern-day sorcerers to steer sorcery away from concreteness toward the abstract.
"What do you call concreteness, don Juan?" I asked.
"The practical part of sorcery," he said. "The obsessive fixation of the mind on practices and techniques, the unwarranted influence over people. All of these were in the realm of the sorcerers of the past."
"And what do you call the abstract?"
"The search for freedom, freedom to perceive, without obsessions, all that's humanly possible. I say that present-day sorcerers seek the abstract because they seek freedom; they have no interest in concrete gains. There are no social functions for them, as there were for the sorcerers of the past. So you'll never catch them being the official seers or the sorcerers in residence."
"Do you mean, don Juan, that the past has no value to modern-day sorcerers?"
"It certainly has value. It's the taste of that past which we don't like. I personally detest the darkness and morbidity of the mind. I like the immensity of thought. However, regardless of my likes and dislikes, I have to give due credit to the sorcerers of antiquity, for they were the first to find out and do everything we know and do today. Don Juan explained that their most important attainment was to perceive the energetic essence of things. This insight was of such importance that it was turned into the basic premise of sorcery. Nowadays, after lifelong discipline and training, sorcerers do acquire the capacity to perceive the essence of things, a capacity they call seeing.
"What would it mean to me to perceive the energetic essence of things?" I once asked don Juan.
"It would mean that you perceive energy directly," he replied. "By separating the social part of perception, you'll perceive the essence of everything. Whatever we are perceiving is energy, but since we can't directly perceive energy, we process our perception to fit a mold. This mold is the social part of perception, which you have to separate."
"Why do I have to separate it?"
"Because it deliberately reduces the scope of what can be perceived and makes us believe that the mold into which we fit our perception is all that exists. I am convinced that for man to survive now, his perception must change at its social base."

"What is this social base of perception, don Juan?"
"The physical certainty that the world is made of concrete objects. I call this a social base because a serious and fierce effort is put out by everybody to guide us to perceive the world the way we do."
"How then should we perceive the world?"
"Everything is energy. The whole universe is energy. The social base of our perception should be the physical certainty that energy is all there is. A mighty effort should be made to guide us to perceive energy as energy. Then we would have both alternatives at our fingertips."
"Is it possible to train people in such a fashion?" I asked.
Don Juan replied that it was possible and that this was precisely what he was doing with me and his other apprentices. He was teaching us a new way of perceiving, first, by making us realize we process our perception to fit a mold and, second, by fiercely guiding us to perceive energy directly. He assured me that this method was very much like the one used to teach us to perceive the world of daily affairs.
Don Juan's conception was that our entrapment in processing our perception to fit a social mold loses its power when we realize we have accepted this mold, as an inheritance from our ancestors, without bothering to examine it.
"To perceive a world of hard objects that had either a positive or a negative value must have been utterly necessary for our ancestors' survival," don Juan said. '"After ages of perceiving in such a manner, we are now forced to believe that the world is made up of objects."
"I can't conceive the world in any other way, don Juan," I complained. "It is unquestionably a world of objects. To prove it, all we have to do is bump into them."
"Of course it's a world of objects. We are not arguing that." "What are you saying then?" "I am saying that this is first a world of energy; then it's a world of objects. If we don't start
with the premise that it is a world of energy, we'll never be able to perceive energy directly. We'll always be stopped by the physical certainty of what you've just pointed out: the hardness of objects."
His argument was extremely mystifying to me. In those days, my mind would simply refuse to consider any way to understand the world except the one with which I was familiar. Don Juan's claims and the points he struggled to raise were outlandish propositions that I could not accept but could not refuse either.
"Our way of perceiving is a predator's way," he said to me on one occasion. "A very efficient manner of appraising and classifying food and danger. But this is not the only way we are able to perceive. There is another mode, the one I am familiarizing you with: the act of perceiving the essence of everything, energy itself, directly.
"To perceive the essence of everything will make us understand, classify, and describe the world in entirely new, more exciting, more sophisticated terms." This was don Juan's claim. And the more sophisticated terms to which he was alluding were those he had been taught by his predecessors, terms that correspond to sorcery truths, which have no rational foundation and no relation whatsoever to the facts of our daily world but which are self-evident truths for the sorcerers who perceive energy directly and see the essence of everything.
For such sorcerers, the most significant act of sorcery is to see the essence of the universe. Don Juan's version was that the sorcerers of antiquity, the first ones to see the essence of the universe, described it in the best manner. They said that the essence of the universe resembles incandescent threads stretched into infinity in every conceivable direction, luminous filaments that are conscious of themselves in ways impossible for the human mind to comprehend.

-The Art of Dreaming

[The One]

Well said watchZEITGEIST there are only two races on this planet - the intelligent and the stupid(joke).Always continue the climb. It is possible for you to do whatever you choose, if you first get to know who you are and are willing to work with a power that is greater than ourselves to do it.

[Loki]

I agree that a lot of people on this site just switched there sheep type ways from one medium to another, where as before they would believe everything they seen on the news or TV or whatever ... and they say "I've woken up" but now they just believe anything from this side of the argument ... they have no bull**** filter ... thats what it is ... and they get so caught up in it that when you try and tell them "hey your just getting suckered" ... they get super mad and call you a dis info agent and all types of stupid crap.

There are many many many people on this site that have no filter at all ... they listen to some crazy guy who said aliens told him something or that he meditated or channeled some information and they just believe them ... I still to this day find it dumbfounding ... and these are always the people who say "you need to wake up" then continue following some moron who says aliens told him a bunch of stuff.

It's frustrating ... i have been banned from the forums for a week before because people get super mad when you call them on something that is clearly crap ... man they get super mad because they don't realise that they have now included a bunch of complete crap into their belief system instead of just taking in the information ...

one of the most powerful quotes ever is ... "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" from Aristotle. And there is a lot of people on this site who just cannot do that at all not even a little bit.

[sshenry]

Whenever I want to call someone a charlatan I make myself bite my tounge until I'm certain that they ARE one (and my tounge has gotten pretty ragged lately), because if they are not blantantly trying to deceive, if they really DO believe in what they are peddling - whether it is a product, or a belief - then, to them, it is real, and while I have the right to be skeptical and to refuse their offer, I don't have the right to trample on a thing which, to them, is truth. If they really do believe in what they are saying - or selling - nothing I say will deter them, and they will simply see my disagreement as an attack, which will cement their validity in their own minds.

I think (and this is just a personal opinion - something that I believe for myself) that the only REAL way to "defrock" a charlatan, is to listen to them - invite them to explain themselves and their belief - (and this is the important part) while maintaining not only my skepticism and my temper, because sooner or later - if they ARE a charlatan - they are going to trip themselves up and will be shown up for what they really are.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

Wow!
:victory:
Awesome replies. Thank you. "Faith" restored!

Perhaps there will be light at the end of the foggy tunnel after all!

[qbeac]

Hi everyone, congratulations to watchZEITGEISTnow for opening this thread.

There is an info I’d like to share with everybody about debunkers, desinfo campaigns and different methods and tactics to deceive society.

I’ve been researching these subject for a few years now, and have found some really interesting stuff. Many of the things I’ve learned about debunkers are due to direct experiences I’ve had in many different forums on the Internet. If you learn how they operate (and they have consistent patterns of behaviour), you can easily spot them from far away!

A big warning for everybody (just in case somebody still doesn’t know it):



Desinfo campaigns are a real thing. They are for real, they do exist!!!

And Internet forums are also a frequent target of these campaigns.
I’ve posted a selection of that info in the following two posts (1 and 6). I highly recommend it. Although the forum is in Spanish, most of the links I’ve included are in English.

Post 1 and 6, pag. 6. Debunkers, desinfo campaigns, tactics to deceive society
http://zonaforo.meristation.com/foros/viewtopic.php?p=27597512#27597512

[qbeac]

Whenever I want to call someone a charlatan I make myself bite my tounge until I'm certain that they ARE one (and my tounge has gotten pretty ragged lately), because if they are not blantantly trying to deceive, if they really DO believe in what they are peddling - whether it is a product, or a belief - then, to them, it is real, and while I have the right to be skeptical and to refuse their offer, I don't have the right to trample on a thing which, to them, is truth. If they really do believe in what they are saying - or selling - nothing I say will deter them, and they will simply see my disagreement as an attack, which will cement their validity in their own minds.

I think (and this is just a personal opinion - something that I believe for myself) that the only REAL way to "defrock" a charlatan, is to listen to them - invite them to explain themselves and their belief - (and this is the important part) while maintaining not only my skepticism and my temper, because sooner or later - if they ARE a charlatan - they are going to trip themselves up and will be shown up for what they really are.
Hi sshenry, I agree with you 100%, and especially with your second paragraph (which I have underlined): let them talk, let’s listen to them, because that’s their Achilles heel. Because the more info they provide, the easier it is to spot possible flaws (contradictions, inconsistencies, etc.) and to discern if they are for real or not.

So, in my opinion, one way to solve this mystery would be if Bill or Charles or both, will give a much deeper and extensive explanation than what they have given us so far.

Of course I am not putting Bill in the same bag as Charles, but Bill is the founder of this forum and the person who has introduced us to Charles, and Bill is also the one who has the greatest amount of data about Charles (perhaps even confidential data).

So far, Charles is not answering the hard questions. He seems to be always and carefully navigating inside the shallow waters, cherry picking the easy and convenient questions and avoiding the difficult ones. That is not a good sign, but it may not be either a definitive sign.

The Q&A sessions are surreal, they resemble more some sort of social experiment than an effort to clarify the Charles Material. And that’s not a good sign.

So far, the info provided by Charles (including the Q&A sessions) could be considered consistent with a con job, but it could also be consistent with other different circumstances, and without further data it is difficult to make an assessment and to be able to reach to a solid conclusion.

Therefore, I really believe that all of us should expect to receive further and deeper clarifications of this situation.

With the limited amount of info we have so far, it is difficult to reach to definitive conclusions.

That’s why further clarifications are needed, and we should expect they are provided.

And we should also ask them (Charles and Bill, both) to provide those explanations to us.

And a lack of proper answers and clarifications would also be a bad sign.

Anyway, I’ve given my POV of how I view the situation at the moment in several posts, but I would point out these two:



Post #782, pag. 40. Important question for Bill about the Q&A sessions. Is Charles cherry picking the questions or trying to manipulate the info?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13572-RULERS-Questions-for-Charles-volume-2&p=129060&viewfull=1#post129060

Poll: Is the Charles-33’s POV ok or a Trojan Horse? Who do you agree with: Bill or Kerry?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13214-Is-the-Charles-33%C2%92s-POV-ok-or-a-Trojan-Horse-Who-do-you-agree-with-Bill-or-Kerry

[Strat]

One of the most skeptical people on the forum is probably myself.

I'm probably your closest rival.

One of the most beautiful pieces of wisdom I have received came from my mother. I think you can use it to spot a charlatan. When asked to explain something in detail, if someone starts to get upset, that is a big giveaway that they don't know what they're talking about. They may be able to dance the dance for a while, but if you keep asking why, they'll start to shift in their chair, the tone of the voice will change, and they'll get almost panicky. I love it when someone is being asked something and they say, "I don't know, that's not what I am familiar with." Most likely, that person may have accurate information because they will tell you their limitations. They are looking for truth as well.

I know what you mean about people being afraid to speak their minds. I'm not afraid to do so. So long as you do it in a polite manner, get your point across, then leave it at that, you'll be fine. I believe that's the point of this forum, sifting through the information. Just understand that not everyone has the same idea as you do. I have to keep myself in check, being a skeptic.

I know a girl that is an archeologist. I like researching esoteric, ancient Egyptian stuff. Whenever I talk to her about it she quickly shuts down ideas with her answers (apparently it's easy to push a 2.5 ton stone uphill on rollers). That annoys me. Then well continue on with other things. Apparently it's plausible that they smoothed granite urns with bronze tools (we can't do this with todays machines). This annoys me more. It's a difference of perspective. In the same way our skeptic minds annoy a non-skeptic mind. This may be a bad metaphor, but I think it gets my point across.

[Steven]

We are free, it is a way of being. We are in a forum of ideas and ideas are powerful. If one looses his OWN ideas and can not generate ideas of his own anymore, all becomes pointless. To some degree, I see it happening here. But hey! I see it happening everywhere!

We live in a purposeful Universe, and the purpose is to evolve, to learn, to grow, to change, to be transformed and to make evolution possible, to let free, to teach, to let go, to shape, to transform this magnificent Universe. To become and to make it becoming all around.

Thanks for the thread!

Namaste, Steven

[qbeac]

…I know a girl that is an archeologist. I like researching esoteric, ancient Egyptian stuff. Whenever I talk to her about it she quickly shuts down ideas with her answers….
Hi Strat, if you like that kind of subjects, you’ll perhaps enjoy some of the info I’ve posted in Post #1 of the following thread about suppressed archaeology and lost civilizations (Atlantis, Lemuria).

Poll: 2012 movie: Fiction or reality? Who's right, Charles or AngloSaxonMision-GeorgeLucas?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?11567-2012-movie-Fiction-or-reality-Who-s-right-Charles-or-AngloSaxonMision-GeorgeLucas

For instance, from the info in Post #1 of the previous link, I highly recommend the Charlton Heston documentary about OOPARTS (Out Of Place Artifacts), and also the info about Yonaguni… well, all of it is really interesting, but those two things are a must watch.

If your archaeologist friend would see the Charlton Heston video, I doubt she could remain so rationally sceptical.

woops! I forgot one more thing that it is really, really good. People, don't miss this video titled Chicago Presentation, it is about the new findings around in the Giza plateau.


The Giza Geomatrix
"Chicago Presentation"
http://www.gizamap.com/sub/movies/en/index.html

Home presentacion inicial: http://www.gizamap.com
Home page: http://www.gizamap.com/geomatrix/

[sshenry]

So far, Charles is not answering the hard questions. He seems to be always and carefully navigating inside the shallow waters, cherry picking the easy and convenient questions and avoiding the difficult ones. That is not a good sign, but it may not be either a definitive sign.


I have learned through years of experience, that you do not need to rely on anyone or anything outside of yourself in order to experience the knowing.

Knowledge is free. The universe charges no price, it demands no qualifications. If a person is open of mind they will KNOW what is real; what is truth, and the knowing will be absolutely clear.

It is there - available for anyone who wants it - for anyone who is open to it.

It is not my place to determine whether or not Charles - or Bill for that matter - or anyone else on this forum with an opinion or a "knowledge" that has been imparted to them - is right, or if their knowledge is accurate. The knowledge was given to THEM, and, being human, they interpreted it through the lens of their own experiences and perception. That does not mean that it is true for you - or me - or anyone else on this forum, or anywhere else on this planet.

Personally, if a person accepts another person's version of truth - or knowledge - without experiencing that truth or knowledge for themselves - I believe that they are taking a chance of giving up their own personal power.

[Icecold]

Hi watchZEITGEIST,

One of the most skeptical people on the forum is probably myself. I'm too long in the tooth to accept things just because they have been said. In the good old days these sort of people had a free-er rein, but these days even some of the 'special' people are being called to odds by people very much like myself.

That being said, there are still a lot of pickings to be taken as there are some very guilliable people out there and even when one tries to de-frock a charlatan, there are ten others just drinking it all in. I reckon I know why, but it would turn this post into a book and I'm sure nobody will want that to happen. Suffice to say, people will see the truth for what it is (or isn't) when the penny eventually drops and they'll slink away in a corner embarrassed to tell anybody they've been had. People can be so fragile.

I'm sure the charlatans on the forum know who they are and know that some people know who they are.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve, with your point of view, on this forum...well its like a hunter with a pump action shotgun standing in front of a herd of Flamingoes.

You know where to come to hunt. I bow to your choice of hunting ground. Well done. You can't miss.

Regards

Icecold

[qbeac]

I have learned through years of experience, that you do not need to rely on anyone or anything outside of yourself in order to experience the knowing.… sinp…

….It is not my place to determine whether or not Charles - or Bill for that matter - or anyone else on this forum with an opinion or a "knowledge" that has been imparted to them - is right, or if their knowledge is accurate. The knowledge was given to THEM…
sshenry, I think I know what I believe in and I also acknowledge my own limitations. But what we are trying to discern about the Charles Material is whether Charles is telling us the truth or not.

Is he telling us the truth or is he lying to us? Is he honest or is he trying to deceive us?

Don’t you think that’s something that should be clarified?

Don’t you think that trying to find out if somebody is telling the truth or lying in such grave matters that could affect billions of people is worth discerning?

I personally think so.

And I think so because differentiating between truth and lies in this case may have grave consecuences and implications for many millions of people and for the planet in general.

In my opinion, if the truth comes out, it will benefit society in general. This could be summarized with that famous sentence:


“The truth shall set you free”
(Jesus Christ )
Moreover, maybe humanity is currently in this sad and terrible situation because it has not cared too much about finding out the truth of matters… I personally think that’s what has happened, especially when I see so many people that only care about their own businesses and don’t care much about the rest of the world.

So, in a way, I think we are “paying the prize” (or experiencing the consecuences) of not honouring that famous sentence: “The truth shall set you free”. That’s why we are still slaves (imo).

[Inelia]

Well, some people just want to be the chosen ones.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WLMawX63lc

[Steven]

Well, some people just want to be the chosen ones.

Yes, and the truth is that being chosen begins by choosing ourselves. The great spirit of this Creation has already done so, because we are here. If the Universe had chosen each one of us, and keep choosing each one of us because we exist and become, then we should do the same and the rest matters less. No need to be chosen by others.

Namaste, Steven

[Icecold]

Well, some people just want to be the chosen ones.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WLMawX63lc

Really? Actually I want a simple life living in a forest near where I live. I want to look around me and see trees. I want to hear the wind and the birds in those trees.
I want to drink freshwater from a stream in that forest. I want to grow what I eat. I want a voice in my head to tell me this bull**** is not happening and its a good thought to want those things. Alternatively, the last thing I want is for someone like yourself telling me I'm a chosen one.
Because it really stuffs up my wants. I hope a genius like yourself can figure out which of my wants that I'm working on.

I hope that is clear and unambiguous.

[Inelia]

Really? Actually I want a simple life living in a forest near where I live. I want to look around me and see trees. I want to hear the wind and the birds in those trees.
I want to drink freshwater from a stream in that forest. I want to grow what I eat. I want a voice in my head to tell me this bull**** is not happening and its a good thought to want those things. Alternatively, the last thing I want is for someone like yourself telling me I'm a chosen one.
Because it really stuffs up my wants. I hope a genius like yourself can figure out which of my wants that I'm working on.

I hope that is clear and unambiguous.

Completely :)
Yet, there is a difference between knowing you have chosen your own path and identify what it is, then go for it, being guided by your higher self, as opposed to asking someone else to choose you by sticking your hand up. I think you understand right? Once you choose your path NO ONE can stop you. And you KNOW what you are doing is right.

[Icecold]

Really? Actually I want a simple life living in a forest near where I live. I want to look around me and see trees. I want to hear the wind and the birds in those trees.
I want to drink freshwater from a stream in that forest. I want to grow what I eat. I want a voice in my head to tell me this bull**** is not happening and its a good thought to want those things. Alternatively, the last thing I want is for someone like yourself telling me I'm a chosen one.
Because it really stuffs up my wants. I hope a genius like yourself can figure out which of my wants that I'm working on.

I hope that is clear and unambiguous.

Completely :)
Yet, there is a difference between knowing you have chosen your own path and identify what it is, then go for it, being guided by your higher self, as opposed to asking someone else to choose you by sticking your hand up. I think you understand right? Once you choose your path NO ONE can stop you. And you KNOW what you are doing is right.

With one exception, in my entire life, have I asked anybody else to choose me. At my core I am self-deprecating. The exception was my wife. We created three exceptional beings.
I know where you are coming from and I thank you for it.

[onawah]

[QUOTE=Strat;131800]…

woops! I forgot one more thing that it is really, really good. People, don't miss this video titled Chicago Presentation, it is about the new findings around in the Giza plateau.


The Giza Geomatrix
"Chicago Presentation"
http://www.gizamap.com/sub/movies/en/index.html

Home presentacion inicial: http://www.gizamap.com
Home page: http://www.gizamap.com/geomatrix/


The vid about Giza looks very interesting, but I could not get it properly onscreen--part of it was chopped off. Do you have any other link where this can be viewed? Thanks.
I believe Edgar Cayce predicted that new chambers would be discovered in the Sphinx that contain knowledge which will help to bring about greater understanding about such things as "who we really are", etc.

I have been wondering if the current push for freedom in Egypt now may actually be due to such a finding. My hunch is the knowledge will prove not to be in the form of the written word, but an essence or energy which, when exposed to the light of day, will have a profound effect on human consciousness. It would make sense, if that is the case, that the Egyptian people would be the first to respond...

As the teachings of Don Juan have explained so well, it's all about energy!

[sandy]

Hey Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have noticed that Bill may be personally alone in this den of iniquity and I can only imagine how scrabbled his mind, and emotions may be with no sounding board or other non-charlatan beside him. I have noticed many times that when Charles would get himself into a bind Bill would rescue him with rationalizing and making excuses for him etc. We all know how much Bill Cares and I'm of like mind to think that he keeps getting set up to be too empathic toward this bunch because he can't see the forest for the trees. They are playing on his heart strings. The game is called "Victim/Rescuer/Persecutor" When one no longer rescues the victim they become persecuted until they break, or acquiesce or escape.

Where are they all now and what is all the silence about from them?..................................they have him in their clutches and I can only pray and do pray that Bill has seen the light ( is playing the Duck) until he can get out from under them safely and regroup.

If I'm way off base that would be great but if not then please join me in sending Bill all the energy we can muster.

[Star Gazer]

Everyone that "claims" such sensational "things" should match the attention they receive with the same amount of proof I believe, or say your piece and then let someone else have a go.

I love it--great post.

[Star Gazer]

The formula for garnering attention here seems to involve making an initial cryptic post followed up by vague non-answers--rinse and repeat.

[steve_a]

Hi Sandy,

As I understand it, Bill is of sound mind and stands by all of his 'witnesses' (except Zagami who proved to be a little too mentally unstable). In the case of Charles, I beleive he had spoken to Kerry on a couple of occasions and she thought the subject a little too close to the edge and advised Bill against it. What can you say, we do what we do.

Is Bill in a bind? I really don't know. Only he can answer that. However there is a saying that whoever keeps quiet about a subject, they are in compliance with it. So we can only assume that all is well and that he is totally on board.

Best regards,

Steve





Hey Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have noticed that Bill may be personally alone in this den of iniquity and I can only imagine how scrabbled his mind, and emotions may be with no sounding board or other non-charlatan beside him. I have noticed many times that when Charles would get himself into a bind Bill would rescue him with rationalizing and making excuses for him etc. We all know how much Bill Cares and I'm of like mind to think that he keeps getting set up to be too empathic toward this bunch because he can't see the forest for the trees. They are playing on his heart strings. The game is called "Victim/Rescuer/Persecutor" When one no longer rescues the victim they become persecuted until they break, or acquiesce or escape.

Where are they all now and what is all the silence about from them?..................................they have him in their clutches and I can only pray and do pray that Bill has seen the light ( is playing the Duck) until he can get out from under them safely and regroup.

If I'm way off base that would be great but if not then please join me in sending Bill all the energy we can muster.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hi Icecold,

I'm not too sure that what you say is really what you want. If you really wanted all those things, you would be doing it by now.





Really? Actually I want a simple life living in a forest near where I live. I want to look around me and see trees. I want to hear the wind and the birds in those trees.
I want to drink freshwater from a stream in that forest. I want to grow what I eat. I want a voice in my head to tell me this bull**** is not happening and its a good thought to want those things. Alternatively, the last thing I want is for someone like yourself telling me I'm a chosen one.
Because it really stuffs up my wants. I hope a genius like yourself can figure out which of my wants that I'm working on.

I hope that is clear and unambiguous.

Best regards,

Steve

[Icecold]

Hi Sandy,

As I understand it, Bill is of sound mind and stands by all of his 'witnesses' (except Zagami who proved to be a little too mentally unstable). In the case of Charles, I beleive he had spoken to Kerry on a couple of occasions and she thought the subject a little too close to the edge and advised Bill against it. What can you say, we do what we do.

Is Bill in a bind? I really don't know. Only he can answer that. However there is a saying that whoever keeps quiet about a subject, they are in compliance with it. So we can only assume that all is well and that he is totally on board.

Best regards,

Steve





Hey Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have noticed that Bill may be personally alone in this den of iniquity and I can only imagine how scrabbled his mind, and emotions may be with no sounding board or other non-charlatan beside him. I have noticed many times that when Charles would get himself into a bind Bill would rescue him with rationalizing and making excuses for him etc. We all know how much Bill Cares and I'm of like mind to think that he keeps getting set up to be too empathic toward this bunch because he can't see the forest for the trees. They are playing on his heart strings. The game is called "Victim/Rescuer/Persecutor" When one no longer rescues the victim they become persecuted until they break, or acquiesce or escape.

Where are they all now and what is all the silence about from them?..................................they have him in their clutches and I can only pray and do pray that Bill has seen the light ( is playing the Duck) until he can get out from under them safely and regroup.

If I'm way off base that would be great but if not then please join me in sending Bill all the energy we can muster.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hi Icecold,

I'm not too sure that what you say is really what you want. If you really wanted all those things, you would be doing it by now.





Really? Actually I want a simple life living in a forest near where I live. I want to look around me and see trees. I want to hear the wind and the birds in those trees.
I want to drink freshwater from a stream in that forest. I want to grow what I eat. I want a voice in my head to tell me this bull**** is not happening and its a good thought to want those things. Alternatively, the last thing I want is for someone like yourself telling me I'm a chosen one.
Because it really stuffs up my wants. I hope a genius like yourself can figure out which of my wants that I'm working on.

I hope that is clear and unambiguous.

Best regards,

Steve

. I'll accept that you rationalise with deftness every word on this forum. That's your game. There is no doubt that the forum needs
its sceptics. James Randi, before he retreated into obscurity, was like you Steve. Maybe you have a picture of James on your wall, framed and autographed.
Unfortunately most of the world's sceptics have largely become laughing stocks. Philip Klass comes to mind. But, attempting to debunk things you do not and probably never will understand,
is a little different from making judgement calls regarding my life or anybody elses. Tell me how the hell do you have the unmitigated gall to tell me how I should have lived my life and even have the timerity to attach a timeline to your statement. You are an arrogant SOB aren't you. Stick to making sceptical claims about things you don't understand.

[Erin]

Skepticism is just as important as being open minded. I think achieving a balance in this is the hardest part of delving into this such esoteric topics. We wouldn't be here if part of us didn't want to believe...but at the same time, we're not idiots.

As for Charles, I sometimes think it's harder to pinpoint who he isn't versus who he is. I still don't really know where I stand here, which is probably a good thing, at least for me personally.

Observe.

[steve_a]

Hi Icecold,

I don't think your aggression was justified, I don't have mitigated gall but as you mentioned in your opening statement I rationalise and state the obvious.

I once learned a story, I can't remember who from, about an old woman who's grand-daughter wanted some money to buy a violin. She went to the shop with her grand-daughter and bought the violin for the little girl, who took up the instrument and began to play. The music was so moving the old woman was in tears and said to the shop keeper, "O how lovely! I wish I could play like that". The shop keeper simply said to the old woman, "I don't think you do, as you had your whole life to learn to play and didn't".

As cutting as the interaction was between the shop keeper and the old woman, she understood.

I don't say what you should or should not do. It was clear you didn't read what I had posted. I said, "I'm not too sure that what you say is really what you want. If you really wanted all those things, you would be doing it by now".

I wasn't saying that you should be living in the woods etc. Nor was I saying you have to live in the woods neither by a certain time. If you live in the woods or not is entirely up to you, I couldn't care less. I was doubting your desire to live in the woods, which is something entirely different. Of course if you didn't understand that, it's not really my fault.

I don't try and debunk things, I question their authenticity, which is different. A debunker will always accept that the information is false. A skeptic will always question and argue to find if the information is true. There's a big difference there. But then, I suppose you know all that already.

As for retreating into obscurity, I'm already there. :-D Do you really think I consider myself famous, or under spotlights? Oh dear me.

Best regards,

Steve







Hi Sandy,

As I understand it, Bill is of sound mind and stands by all of his 'witnesses' (except Zagami who proved to be a little too mentally unstable). In the case of Charles, I beleive he had spoken to Kerry on a couple of occasions and she thought the subject a little too close to the edge and advised Bill against it. What can you say, we do what we do.

Is Bill in a bind? I really don't know. Only he can answer that. However there is a saying that whoever keeps quiet about a subject, they are in compliance with it. So we can only assume that all is well and that he is totally on board.

Best regards,

Steve





Hey Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have noticed that Bill may be personally alone in this den of iniquity and I can only imagine how scrabbled his mind, and emotions may be with no sounding board or other non-charlatan beside him. I have noticed many times that when Charles would get himself into a bind Bill would rescue him with rationalizing and making excuses for him etc. We all know how much Bill Cares and I'm of like mind to think that he keeps getting set up to be too empathic toward this bunch because he can't see the forest for the trees. They are playing on his heart strings. The game is called "Victim/Rescuer/Persecutor" When one no longer rescues the victim they become persecuted until they break, or acquiesce or escape.

Where are they all now and what is all the silence about from them?..................................they have him in their clutches and I can only pray and do pray that Bill has seen the light ( is playing the Duck) until he can get out from under them safely and regroup.

If I'm way off base that would be great but if not then please join me in sending Bill all the energy we can muster.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hi Icecold,

I'm not too sure that what you say is really what you want. If you really wanted all those things, you would be doing it by now.





Really? Actually I want a simple life living in a forest near where I live. I want to look around me and see trees. I want to hear the wind and the birds in those trees.
I want to drink freshwater from a stream in that forest. I want to grow what I eat. I want a voice in my head to tell me this bull**** is not happening and its a good thought to want those things. Alternatively, the last thing I want is for someone like yourself telling me I'm a chosen one.
Because it really stuffs up my wants. I hope a genius like yourself can figure out which of my wants that I'm working on.

I hope that is clear and unambiguous.

Best regards,

Steve

. I'll accept that you rationalise with deftness every word on this forum. That's your game. There is no doubt that the forum needs
its sceptics. James Randi, before he retreated into obscurity, was like you Steve. Maybe you have a picture of James on your wall, framed and autographed.
Unfortunately most of the world's sceptics have largely become laughing stocks. Philip Klass comes to mind. But, attempting to debunk things you do not and probably never will understand,
is a little different from making judgement calls regarding my life or anybody elses. Tell me how the hell do you have the unmitigated gall to tell me how I should have lived my life and even have the timerity to attach a timeline to your statement. You are an arrogant SOB aren't you. Stick to making sceptical claims about things you don't understand.

[PHARAOH]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan

A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception.

I am very very disappointed with lack of skepticism on this site, and coming from me that is one for the books...

Everyone that "claims" such sensational "things" should match the attention they receive with the same amount of proof I believe, or say your piece and then let someone else have a go.

To THE charlatans on this site : you are under the microscope as you should be. The question is, do you know that?

To all under the trance of such individuals - snap the hell out of it would you - we miss you guys.

***NEVER SURRENDER YOUR FREE WILL TO ANYONE OR ANYTHING EVER***
:ballchain:

Family, it is not nice to speak of Charles when he is not here to defame himself. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[Dale]

I don't try and debunk things, I question their authenticity, which is different. A debunker will always accept that the information is false. A skeptic will always question and argue to find if the information is true. There's a big difference there.

Wonderfully said.

To me, a healthy sense of skepticism involves looking at the given issue with an open mind, open heart, and from the supporting framework of the concept, itself.

Understanding.

[ArtyCarl]

“The skeptic does not mean him who doubts, but him who investigates or researches, as opposed to him who asserts and thinks that he has found”

Miguel de Unamuno (Spanish Author and Philosopher, 1864-1936)

[sshenry]

[Is he telling us the truth or is he lying to us? Is he honest or is he trying to deceive us?

Don’t you think that’s something that should be clarified?

Don’t you think that trying to find out if somebody is telling the truth or lying in such grave matters that could affect billions of people is worth discerning?



Does it matter whether or not he is telling the truth?

A panel of intelligent and resourceful people could grill him (them) regarding the "truth" of his words. They could ask him pointed questions and demand clear and exact answers. But in the end, IT IS ALL JUST WORDS. And the words have to be preceived and discerned by those who hear them.

It is not up to me - or you -or bill - or charles to tell the truth. We should. They should. But a person's "truth" is a matter of perception. It is up to me - and you - and all of us to personally DISCERN the truth of what is being said.

The only way that truth can be discerned if each of us is absolutely clear in our own truth - what is true for us. Only then will we be able to discern the "truth" of what others speak, and regardless, you can't discern "truth" for someone else, let alone for the world.

[Shezbeth]

I have found that, in order to distinguish an authority from an authoritarian, one must gain the confidence of the individual(s) in question. Often it is only when they have relaxed will they allow their true colors to show. Unfortunately, that often entails giving them what they want - complete, if temporary, subscription to the ideas purported and the methods prescribed.

Therefore I do not find fault in committing myself to the idea that what is said is true, in spite of a lack of proof.

Keep your friends close,....