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Anchor
10th February 2011, 12:26
Meditation XVII

from Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions

Now this bell tolling softly for another, says to me, Thou must die. Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me and see my state may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.

The church is catholic, universal, so are all her actions; all that she does belongs to all. When she baptizes a child, that action concerns me; for that child is thereby connected to that head which is my head too, and ingrafted into the body whereof I am a member. And when she buries a man, that action concerns me: all mankind is of one author and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated. God employs several translators; some pieces are translated by age, some by sickness, some by war, some by justice; but God's hand is in every translation, and his hand shall bind up all our scattered leaves again for that library where every book shall lie open to one another.

As therefore the bell that rings a sermon calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come, so this bell calls us all; but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness. There was a contention as far as a suit (in which piety and dignity, religion and estimation, were mingled) which of the religious orders should ring to prayers first in the morning; and it was determined that they should ring first that rose earliest. If we understand aright the dignity of this bell that tolls for our evening prayer, we would be glad to make it ours by rising early, in that application, that it might be ours as well as his whose indeed it is.

The bell doth toll for him that thinks it doth; and though it intermit again, yet from that minute that that occasion wrought upon him, he is united to God. Who casts not up his eye to the sun when it rises? but who takes off his eye from a comet when that breaks out? Who bends not his ear to any bell which upon any occasion rings? but who can remove it from that bell which is passing a piece of himself out of this world?

No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Neither can we call this a begging of misery or a borrowing of misery, as though we are not miserable enough of ourselves but must fetch in more from the next house, in taking upon us the misery of our neighbors. Truly it were an excusable covetousness if we did; for affliction is a treasure, and scarce any man hath enough of it. No man hath affliction enough that is not matured and ripened by it, and made fit for God by that affliction.

If a man carry treasure in bullion, or in a wedge of gold, and have none coined into current moneys, his treasure will not defray him as he travels. Tribulation is treasure in the nature of it, but it is not current money in the use of it, except we get nearer and nearer our home, heaven, by it. Another man may be sick too, and sick to death, and this affliction may lie in his bowels as gold in a mine and be of no use to him; but this bell that tells me of his affliction digs out and applies that gold to me, if by this consideration of another's dangers I take mine own into contemplation and so secure myself by making my recourse to my God, who is our only security.


The above profound work is by John Donne (1572-1631). (Note: I added para breaks, the original had none and is hard to read on this forum that way).

http://isu.indstate.edu/ilnprof/ENG451/ISLAND/bio.html

araucaria
10th February 2011, 13:26
Meditation XVII

from Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions

Now this bell tolling softly for another, says to me, Thou must die. Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me and see my state may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.

The church is catholic, universal, so are all her actions; all that she does belongs to all. When she baptizes a child, that action concerns me; for that child is thereby connected to that head which is my head too, and ingrafted into the body whereof I am a member. And when she buries a man, that action concerns me: all mankind is of one author and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated. God employs several translators; some pieces are translated by age, some by sickness, some by war, some by justice; but God's hand is in every translation, and his hand shall bind up all our scattered leaves again for that library where every book shall lie open to one another.

As therefore the bell that rings a sermon calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come, so this bell calls us all; but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness. There was a contention as far as a suit (in which piety and dignity, religion and estimation, were mingled) which of the religious orders should ring to prayers first in the morning; and it was determined that they should ring first that rose earliest. If we understand aright the dignity of this bell that tolls for our evening prayer, we would be glad to make it ours by rising early, in that application, that it might be ours as well as his whose indeed it is.

The bell doth toll for him that thinks it doth; and though it intermit again, yet from that minute that that occasion wrought upon him, he is united to God. Who casts not up his eye to the sun when it rises? but who takes off his eye from a comet when that breaks out? Who bends not his ear to any bell which upon any occasion rings? but who can remove it from that bell which is passing a piece of himself out of this world?

No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Neither can we call this a begging of misery or a borrowing of misery, as though we are not miserable enough of ourselves but must fetch in more from the next house, in taking upon us the misery of our neighbors. Truly it were an excusable covetousness if we did; for affliction is a treasure, and scarce any man hath enough of it. No man hath affliction enough that is not matured and ripened by it, and made fit for God by that affliction.

If a man carry treasure in bullion, or in a wedge of gold, and have none coined into current moneys, his treasure will not defray him as he travels. Tribulation is treasure in the nature of it, but it is not current money in the use of it, except we get nearer and nearer our home, heaven, by it. Another man may be sick too, and sick to death, and this affliction may lie in his bowels as gold in a mine and be of no use to him; but this bell that tells me of his affliction digs out and applies that gold to me, if by this consideration of another's dangers I take mine own into contemplation and so secure myself by making my recourse to my God, who is our only security.


The above profound work is by John Donne (1572-1631). (Note: I added para breaks, the original had none and is hard to read on this forum that way).

http://isu.indstate.edu/ilnprof/ENG451/ISLAND/bio.html

Many thanks for reminding me of that wonderful page. Paul Simon, who majored in English Lit., put it to music in "I am a Rock":

A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Don't talk of love,
But I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

Anchor
12th February 2011, 23:31
Well, with respect to Paul Simon's talents - if he did base that work on John Donne's, then I have to say I think he missed the point :)

Great song though.

araucaria
13th February 2011, 17:26
Well, with respect to Paul Simon's talents - if he did base that work on John Donne's, then I have to say I think he missed the point :)

Great song though.

I disagree - with respect, I think you have missed his point...

Anchor
14th February 2011, 04:19
Well, with respect to Paul Simon's talents - if he did base that work on John Donne's, then I have to say I think he missed the point :)

Great song though.

I disagree - with respect, I think you have missed his point...

Maybe I have, but I will need help seeing what I have missed. I did not study this so I may be way off.

John Donne was very ill when he wrote that. On hearing the bell he was wondering who it tolled for (ie: someone died) and he thought he was going to die soon anyway - so he gets to thinking - you know what - its all the same thing, if someone dies, then its a piece of me. He analyses this from more than one perspective in the work. In his analyse the nature of the individual as a component of the whole with a individual conciousness he starts to see the flaws of in seeing other people as individuals as we are all parts of God (as he saw it through Catholic lenses).

Paul Simon's song http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_a_Rock appears to touch none of these points - taking a rather hard line perspective of being isolated, fortified and basically invulnerable and unaffected by life's slings and arrows. It does not contemplate the nature of unity - it just asserts that it is everything that he is is a single isolated fortress island and therefore does not have to suffer (the effect of) pain or loss.

Perhaps I have this totally wrong, but aside from your assertion that the song is based on the John Donne meditation, I don't see it. Perhaps it is based on the opposite of a small part of what John Donne was writing about - that I could see.

I even Googled this and there is some commentary on a comparison, but they only take one small part of the overall work - specifically this bit: "No man is an island..... {up to}.....it tolls for thee."

I can see no evidence that Paul Simon basing the song on John Donne's work other than some commentary that the one contradicts the other in a small aspect of the JD's work.

John Donne: No man is an Island

Paul Simon: I am an island

Since these are both famous, I guess that is going to get talked about.

I don't think he missed the point because I cant see he based it on JD's work in the first place.

Can you (or anyone) help me see it otherwise?

araucaria
14th February 2011, 08:04
OK , I am not talking about literary criticism here, but it seems pretty clear to me that Simon is aware of not having invented the 'no man is and island' analogy. The song is about a disappointed lover putting a brave face on things and at the end the music completely contradicts the words - he breaks down; an island never cries, but that is precisely what he is about to do.

You find the same effect in Schumann's Fantasia for piano, in which he slowly builds up to a loud chord in the major key. He is trying to 'get his act together', but the whole thing disintegrates in the space of two bars.

I am particularly sensitive to these bursting bubbles because this seems to be the scenario we are looking at at Avalon: the big final turnaround, as suggested by D. Wiilcock for example. This is the idea behinf Carl Jung's notion of enantiodromia, whereby 'the superabundance of any force inevitably produces its opposite' (Wikipedia).
You don't have to agree, but that anyway is where I am coming from. Have another listen!

Anchor
14th February 2011, 10:02
OK , I am not talking about literary criticism here, but it seems pretty clear to me that Simon is aware of not having invented the 'no man is and island' analogy. The song is about a disappointed lover putting a brave face on things and at the end the music completely contradicts the words - he breaks down; an island never cries, but that is precisely what he is about to do.

You find the same effect in Schumann's Fantasia for piano, in which he slowly builds up to a loud chord in the major key. He is trying to 'get his act together', but the whole thing disintegrates in the space of two bars.

I am particularly sensitive to these bursting bubbles because this seems to be the scenario we are looking at at Avalon: the big final turnaround, as suggested by D. Wiilcock for example. This is the idea behinf Carl Jung's notion of enantiodromia, whereby 'the superabundance of any force inevitably produces its opposite' (Wikipedia).
You don't have to agree, but that anyway is where I am coming from. Have another listen!

Here you raise points that I believe I have not missed - thanks!