The 48 Laws of Power

[Jonathon]

Hrmmm... just happened to run across this. Might want to think of this in terms of "what to watch out for". I won't state any more of the obvious. You all know where this fits in your individual experiences. They may as well title the book: Post-Graduate Illuminati and Other Doctoral Theses :eek:

The 48 Laws of Power is a 1998 book by Robert Greene and Joost Elffers. The book shares thematic elements with Niccolò Machiavelli's The Prince and has been compared to Sun-Tzu's classic treatise The Art of War.

The Laws

* Law 1 Never outshine the master.
* Law 2 Never put too much trust in friends; learn how to use enemies.
* Law 3 Conceal your intentions.
* Law 4 Always say less than necessary.
* Law 5 So much depends on reputation. Guard it with your life.
* Law 6 Court attention at all costs.
* Law 7 Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.
* Law 8 Make other people come to you; use bait if necessary.
* Law 9 Win through your actions, never through argument.
* Law 10 Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.
* Law 11 Learn to keep people dependent on you.
* Law 12 Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim.
* Law 13 When asking for help, appeal to people's self-interests, never to their mercy or gratitude.
* Law 14 Pose as a friend, work as a spy.
* Law 15 Crush your enemy totally.
* Law 16 Use absence to increase respect and honor.
* Law 17 Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability.
* Law 18 Do not build fortresses to protect yourself. Isolation is dangerous.
* Law 19 Know who you're dealing with; do not offend the wrong person.
* Law 20 Do not commit to anyone.
* Law 21 Play a sucker to catch a sucker: play dumber than your mark.
* Law 22 Use the surrender tactic: transform weakness into power.
* Law 23 Concentrate your forces.
* Law 24 Play the perfect courtier.
* Law 25 Re-create yourself.
* Law 26 Keep your hands clean.
* Law 27 Play on people's need to believe to create a cultlike following.
* Law 28 Enter action with boldness.
* Law 29 Plan all the way to the end.
* Law 30 Make your accomplishments seem effortless.
* Law 31 Control the options: get others to play with the cards you deal.
* Law 32 Play to people's fantasies.
* Law 33 Discover each man's thumbscrew.
* Law 34 Be royal in your fashion: act like a king to be treated like one.
* Law 35 Master the art of timing.
* Law 36 Disdain things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best revenge.
* Law 37 Create compelling spectacles.
* Law 38 Think as you like but behave like others.
* Law 39 Stir up waters to catch fish.
* Law 40 Despise the free lunch.
* Law 41 Avoid stepping into a great man's shoes.
* Law 42 Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter.
* Law 43 Work on the hearts and minds of others.
* Law 44 Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect.
* Law 45 Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at once.
* Law 46 Never appear perfect.
* Law 47 Do not go past the mark you aimed for; in victory, learn when to stop.
* Law 48 Assume formlessness.

I think they missed: Law 49 Piss On The Rest.:tape:

[Flash]

May be useful lessons, Thanks Jonathon

[Shezbeth]

If you find that one fascinating, there's also "The Art of Seduction" - all kinds (emotional, romantic, political, etc.) and "The 33 Strategies of War". Useful reading for anyone undertaking an arduous endeavor.

http://powerseductionandwar.com/

[Steven]

...Law 49 Piss On The Rest.:tape:

It's the only one I follow ;)

It's interesting to see how omnipresent these ideas are in the consumption culture today. Some appears like strategic wisdom, but if one is really dedicated to the laws of Life, one can not follow two masters.

Namaste, Steven

[Shezbeth]

Yes and no.

The purpose of the book, as detailed in the introduction, is twofold.

One, it is to enable those who would seek and use power.
Two, it is to enable those who would arm themselves against power.
(truly, they are one and the same)

Also recognize that power is not inherently benevolent or malevolent, it is the individual using it and their intentions. The word power, in this context, is interchangable with "potency" or "efficacy". The laws are all about being as effective as one can be in circumstances. Again, why one chooses to express power is another story entirely.

I welcome discussion of the book and the laws contained therein. I have read it periodically for about 10 years, about 5 times in total. If I can be of assistance I would do so happily. ^_^

[meeradas]

i just got up to point 12, then the urge to throw up stopped me.
Can't take much of such highly distasteful ideology/ terminology.

[would have liked to use much stronger words...]

[Shezbeth]

One must engage a degree of detachment to preconceived notions. It is not the words that are distasteful, but the context you put them in. ^_^

Recognize that in a conflict, there are two primary poles. That of the victor, and that of the victim. This is alluded to in the movie Revolver.

[meeradas]

You might be right... :ohwell:, but that doesn't even slightly diminish my urge to 'purge' ...
I still have to deal with that "context" daily.
Not willing to ever subscribe to this kind of psycho[il-]logical programming :yuck:

[Shezbeth]

Nor should you or anyone subscribe to any form of programming.

However - is a set of tools, a surgical saw, or even a gun 'programming'? Of course not, they are tools - a means to an end and nothing more. Some tools are more messy and gruesome than others, and some tools are inappropriate in many situations. That doesn't mean one should throw the tool away, just not use it outside of context. There are many tools in my toolset I don't use just as there are many laws in the 48 I don't use. Ignorance of them however COULD cause one harm.

One does themselves a disservice by looking at the title of each law and drawing a conclusion. Each law has a synopsis, which I will link to or post (sorry, at work right now ^_^) that explains the purpose/intent better. I am essentially asking that you suspend judgement for just a moment longer.

Of course, it is no sweat off my back regarless of how you choose. ^_^

[Shezbeth]

In the meantime I leave you with this paraphrase, from Machiavelli's The Prince, and included in the foreward of the 48.

"Any person who endeavors to be good all the time is certain to come to ruin amongst the many who are not so foolish. A wise individual must therefore be versed and prepared to be good or not be good as the situation demands"

[Chicodoodoo]

They may as well title the book: Post-Graduate Illuminati and Other Doctoral Theses

Holy Nemesis, Batman! I would title it The Concise Handbook of Sociopathic Behavior.

[s3nru]

Nor should you or anyone subscribe to any form of programming.

However - is a set of tools, a surgical saw, or even a gun 'programming'? Of course not, they are tools - a means to an end and nothing more.

Tools can be programming, absolutely. Mcluhan famously said "We shape our tools, thereafter they shape us." Every tool can be viewed to have specific modes of interacting with the user, which in turn affects the user, or programs them.

I do agree that context is everything though. I also believe it's not worth feeling fear over something that's just written words. Expression is beautiful even if what's being expressed is not for us.

[davyj0nes]

i have to add this book to my library. i founded on google but they wanted too much for the digital version. I already have The Prince.

[Shezbeth]

Every tool can be viewed to have specific modes of interacting with the user, which in turn affects the user, or programs them

I disagree except to allow that a tool programs a user to interface with it. The onus of thinking and behaving entirely falls on the user. Moreover, even if one decides not to use an entire set of tools, it behooves them to learn the tools of their opponents.

A jedi doesn't become a master until they know the dark side, even if they never use it.

[jorr lundstrom]

My hammer I have used to fasten nails, instead of a saw, to dig with as a wieght to prevent papers from being

blown away and as an anvil.

And I think I can use it to crack someones skullbone.

I have never been in a situation that this has been necessary but

I see a tool and its use as totally depending on the situation.

And I do love my hammer. ;)

[Carmody]

It's a big world and one would be smart to be quite familiar with even the 'distasteful' ones.

Just my experience.

'Lo, I do send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves, be ye therefore wise as the serpents, and simple as the doves.'

i modified it a bit (this post- for clarification), in case someone gets the wrong idea.....

[s3nru]

The onus of thinking and behaving entirely falls on the user. Moreover, even if one decides not to use an entire set of tools, it behooves them to learn the tools of their opponents.

Yes I agree the onus of thinking is the responsibility of the tool user. I still contend all tools have the ability to program the user. For example, if I was to use Jorr's hammer I would have a programmed understanding of which ways to best utilize the hammer for the task at hand. This is based on my experience using hammers and the techniques I've acquired etc.

I'm not saying that all tools have the same programs or that everybody is programmed the same way by the technology/tools they interact with either, only that in any sustained interaction there is a likelihood of some sort of programming based on the parameters or skill set required for the tools.

An extreme example would be Charles' alleged interaction with the 'machine'. A minor example would be your personal interaction with an alarm clock in the morning.

You won't find me arguing against exposing oneself to new ideas though. This is how we grow.

[Arrowwind]

The problem with a tool and especially after you master its use is that you turn to it when other options may be better. You get set into a rut thinking that this is what you have so this is what you will use.

Farmers with big expensive tractors and other machines that cost a ton of money and likely put them into debt are not so interested in learning about sustainable ag because they have invested so much in the tools they have and how to use them. They get on to one track and get stuck there, hence they are programed not to approach things to far out of their box

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hrmmm... just happened to run across this. Might want to think of this in terms of "what to watch out for". I won't state any more of the obvious. You all know where this fits in your individual experiences. They may as well title the book: Post-Graduate Illuminati and Other Doctoral Theses :eek:

The 48 Laws of Power is a 1998 book by Robert Greene and Joost Elffers. The book shares thematic elements with Niccolò Machiavelli's The Prince and has been compared to Sun-Tzu's classic treatise The Art of War.

The Laws

* Law 1 Never outshine the master.
* Law 2 Never put too much trust in friends; learn how to use enemies.
* Law 3 Conceal your intentions.
* Law 4 Always say less than necessary.
* Law 5 So much depends on reputation. Guard it with your life.
* Law 6 Court attention at all costs.
* Law 7 Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.
* Law 8 Make other people come to you; use bait if necessary.
* Law 9 Win through your actions, never through argument.
* Law 10 Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.
* Law 11 Learn to keep people dependent on you.
* Law 12 Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim.
* Law 13 When asking for help, appeal to people's self-interests, never to their mercy or gratitude.
* Law 14 Pose as a friend, work as a spy.
* Law 15 Crush your enemy totally.
* Law 16 Use absence to increase respect and honor.
* Law 17 Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability.
* Law 18 Do not build fortresses to protect yourself. Isolation is dangerous.
* Law 19 Know who you're dealing with; do not offend the wrong person.
* Law 20 Do not commit to anyone.
* Law 21 Play a sucker to catch a sucker: play dumber than your mark.
* Law 22 Use the surrender tactic: transform weakness into power.
* Law 23 Concentrate your forces.
* Law 24 Play the perfect courtier.
* Law 25 Re-create yourself.
* Law 26 Keep your hands clean.
* Law 27 Play on people's need to believe to create a cultlike following.
* Law 28 Enter action with boldness.
* Law 29 Plan all the way to the end.
* Law 30 Make your accomplishments seem effortless.
* Law 31 Control the options: get others to play with the cards you deal.
* Law 32 Play to people's fantasies.
* Law 33 Discover each man's thumbscrew.
* Law 34 Be royal in your fashion: act like a king to be treated like one.
* Law 35 Master the art of timing.
* Law 36 Disdain things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best revenge.
* Law 37 Create compelling spectacles.
* Law 38 Think as you like but behave like others.
* Law 39 Stir up waters to catch fish.
* Law 40 Despise the free lunch.
* Law 41 Avoid stepping into a great man's shoes.
* Law 42 Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter.
* Law 43 Work on the hearts and minds of others.
* Law 44 Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect.
* Law 45 Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at once.
* Law 46 Never appear perfect.
* Law 47 Do not go past the mark you aimed for; in victory, learn when to stop.
* Law 48 Assume formlessness.

I think they missed: Law 49 Piss On The Rest.:tape:

These are the laws and rules of a master manipulator. Been there, done that. Learned. No thanks.

[Shezbeth]

In the sense that using or contemplating the use of a hammer to hit things, programs one to understand better the whys and hows of hitting things, I agree. I am unfamiliar with Atticus' use of the machine simply because that is all hearsay as far as I am concerned and I don't understand the reference to the alarm clock at all, unless you mean that by having tried and tested the alarm clock as a means to wake up in the morning I am inclined to use it if I have to be up in a timely manner. I agree with that.

There is a fine line between programming and familiarity/proficiency. I agree that often when people learn to use things they tend to rely on them more than new ideas simply because they are familiar, but exclusion of acceptable new ideas again falls on the shoulder of the user.

Again, I make allowances to the idea that some users ALLOW themselves to be programmed, but I find it is more accurate to say that some users become complacent/lazy/invested about (not) approaching a topic from the appropriate angles. This returns again to the responsibility of the user.

I agree with the phenomenon that is being described, but it alludes to the phrase "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

Plus, the final law is "Assume Formlessness"

Arrowwind, I understand and appreciate if that is your final impression on the matter, but these laws are not about manipulation unless put toward that purpose. They are just as effectively used to avoid manipulation, again depending on the individual using them.

Pardon me for asking, but what about you implies that they ARE about manipulation?

[Arrowwind]

I
Arrowwind, I understand and appreciate if that is your final impression on the matter, but these laws are not about manipulation unless put toward that purpose. They are just as effectively used to avoid manipulation, again depending on the individual using them.

Pardon me for asking, but what about you implies that they ARE about manipulation?

The laws promote falseness and lies and teach people to be disingenuine while persuing the affairs of the world. When you are tangled up in all that how does one keep track of who they really are? How do you make heart to heart contact with all this going on? Many of these rules are keynote symptoms of a master manipulator. I have learned my way out of such behavior over incarnations as I think many here likely have. Im just calling it as I see it,
my opinion might be wrong for another who has a different path to journey

[Shezbeth]

I agree and corroborate that observation. Deception is a necessary aspect of many of the laws. Still, I fail to see how awareness of them could be construed as a bad thing. A person could be trained to understand deceptive body language or facial cues so as to detect lies and deception, but without practicing them.

[Charlie Pecos]

At one time, I did work for an individual who is a certified grade A psychopath.

I always wondered what rule book he played by.

Now I know.

To know of something, one must first experience it.

[Shezbeth]

Additionally, just because individuals haven't/don't read the book, doesn't mean they don't observe the laws,....

All prominent people in history have utilized or observed the laws. That includes the kings and queens, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers,.... But also such individuals as Ghandi, Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela, Buddha, and Jesus. Again I reiterate that the laws, knowledge of them, and the use of them is not inherently bad, negative, or malevolent. Neither are their use good, positive, or benevolent. What is crucial is the agenda they are used towards and the intent of the individual(s) in question.

Especially in the realm of reform, it is not wise to bring a knife to a gunfight.

[Charlie Pecos]

Oh yeah, agree wholeheartedly.

You are absolutely correct in that there is a unified field of conciousness that is utilized to obtain the information.

In this guy's case, I actually think he attended a seminar for this stuff. His intent was to take advantage of everyone in his life, and he did so with a calm malevolence.

Hell, he would throw his own mother in front of a bus if he could make a buck doing it.

I saw right through him from the moment we met, and that caused a great deal of friction between us. They don't like it when their "vics" know what they are up to.

[PathWalker]

I fully recognize reptilian dominance in this thread. And that is OK with me.
The 48 rules of power seems to be very effective to those in the "service to self". Which is not compared to "service to other". Since each path has its own lessons and services.
The reptilians are very much in "service to self", they have their undeniable honorable role in the game. You can not play a good drama without the evil.

It is once said in the "law on one" (http://www.llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.aspx): The most dangerous threat to the "service to self" entity is equally or more polarized entity to "service to others". Which might convert and put havoc in the lines of the "service to self" (story of Jesus) .

When someone is well polarized in one of the other way, the fear of conversion dissipate. And other fears/lessons arrive.

I am glad we have acknowledgment of both polarities here. I wonder what greaybread would say about this.

[Arrowwind]

Yes and no.

The purpose of the book, as detailed in the introduction, is twofold.

One, it is to enable those who would seek and use power.
Two, it is to enable those who would arm themselves against power.
(truly, they are one and the same)

Also recognize that power is not inherently benevolent or malevolent, it is the individual using it and their intentions. The word power, in this context, is interchangable with "potency" or "efficacy". The laws are all about being as effective as one can be in circumstances. Again, why one chooses to express power is another story entirely.

I welcome discussion of the book and the laws contained therein. I have read it periodically for about 10 years, about 5 times in total. If I can be of assistance I would do so happily. ^_^

these rules promote a false power... yes, they can be used to attain many things but ultimately the users will destroy themselves. True power is always beautiful and creates beauty and the main component of beauty is love. True power has the current of love running through it and that is beautiful.

People who have worked their way out of this stuff already know this stuff. That is why I said been there done that. I can see all this in others instantly. If you can't see it perhaps you need to work on (and I don't mean anyone personally here just speaking in generalities)it and this is a wake up call. What you are free of you know intimately.. that is required for you to be free of it, either acquired in this life or another.... just explaining how the learning process goes...

[jorr lundstrom]

I fully recognize reptilian dominance in this thread. And that is OK with me.
The 48 rules of power seems to be very effective to those in the "service to self". Which is not compared to "service to other". Since each path has its own lessons and services.
The reptilians are very much in "service to self", they have their undeniable honorable role in the game. You can not play a good drama without the evil.

It is once said in the "law on one" (http://www.llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.aspx): The most dangerous threat to the "service to self" entity is equality or more polarized entity to "service to others". Which might convert and put havoc in the lines of the "service to self" .

When someone is well polarized in one of the other way, the fear of conversion dissipate. And other fears/lessons arrive.

I am glad we have acknowledgment of both polarities here. I wonder what greaybread would say about this.

Making a division between STS and STO I see as a BIG illusion. How can anyone actually consider that possible.

And in my not the least humble opinion I dont care about wot Greybeard or anybody else hold for true, I have to

live with my version of how things work. ;)

[Shezbeth]

They don't like it when their "vics" know what they are up to.

I too have dealt with such individuals. My suggestion? Law 21 - Play a sucker to catch a sucker: seem dumber than your mark. I apologize that I cannot (currently) locate my copy to include more.

And Jorr pointed it out nicely. The laws are not STS or STO. They are for furthering one (or a group) who is EITHER STS or STO. Further, I find the STO/STS dynamic is misleading. One should be balanced between STS and STO, but not exclusively or predominantly either, but that's an entirely different can of worms.

If I seem an advocate I apologize. I respect everyone's individual opinions and dispositions, whether I agree or not. However, I find wanton labeling of materials as 'bad', 'negative', or 'false' to be injurious to any who might objectively peruse such materials. If they are so, they will be seen as such and do not require subjective descriptives of this nature.

Lastly, I agree with the term manipulate in the correct context, and to that end I'm providing a link to the correct definition:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/manipulate

Yes, the first example refers to unfairness, but the later ones imply 'with skill', 'managing', 'adapting or changing'. Manipulation too is not inherently bad.

Hell, I'm manipulating the direction of this thread just by my input. Any time a person deliberately acts in context there is manipulation. Being skillful or learned doesn't make it wrong.

FOUND IT! Here's a link to the synopsis of each law.

http://robertgreene.net/the-48-laws-of-power.html

[greybeard]

I fully recognize reptilian dominance in this thread. And that is OK with me.
The 48 rules of power seems to be very effective to those in the "service to self". Which is not compared to "service to other". Since each path has its own lessons and services.
The reptilians are very much in "service to self", they have their undeniable honorable role in the game. You can not play a good drama without the evil.

It is once said in the "law on one" (http://www.llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.aspx): The most dangerous threat to the "service to self" entity is equally or more polarized entity to "service to others". Which might convert and put havoc in the lines of the "service to self" (story of Jesus) .

When someone is well polarized in one of the other way, the fear of conversion dissipate. And other fears/lessons arrive.

I am glad we have acknowledgment of both polarities here. I wonder what greaybread would say about this.

Greaybread is well ----Half baked and totally confused by all this.

Life was so simple then I hear of wakening up, I did not like it because.
My idea of awakening is the spiritual variety where you let go of all that is not you, anger, want to control, everything thats brilliantly put in the first post on this thread.

When some talk about waking up I think they are going further down the rabbit hole, further into illusion.

Bill said that it suits the powers that be to have website like this as they can drip feed a little truth and a lot of disinformation.
I realize that this is a whistle blower site and that many things needed to be uncovered and Bill has done a great job.

The section that I live in mainly is the spiritual section, the energy there has remained virtually the same throughout the last few months in fact it has if anything risen due to the contribution of new people
The energy energy in threads like this is some what different.

I agree with my friend Path Walker that in the world of duality there is a need for different levels of energy so that we can choose the energy we relate to.
Some people get a high from a good fight, I dont need that.

Some would think the spiritual path boring, that is just not true, I frees you of fear the moment you know that you are not the body.
Then you can do anything you want cept jump of a cliff saying I dont believe in gravity
There has to be realisim that there are consequences for every action.
It all comes back to you.

The elite want to keep you from true spiritual knowledge by the techniques pointed out in the first post.
They are very clever after all they had thousands of years keeping you running here there and every where in the illusion that you can be controlled.

Icke says let go of the game stop playing powerless. Its all mind.
Icke "Its all an illusion but love" He said that, What else do you need to know?

Don Quixote tilted at windmills imaginary foes.
The enemy is in your head dont give it power.
No one is doing anything to you.
Eckhart Tolle takes it a stage further. " There never was anyone there to do anything to you"

A story.
The wizard dragon slayer was dying, the villagers terrified.
They pleaded dont die who will protect us from the dragon?

His dying words. " I think you will find that when I have gone so will the dragon be no more"


All I know is that I have seen situations come and go here in Avalon but the heart is strong and good and will remain so.

Chris

[TheChosen]

48 Laws of Power is one of few books I've read back to back .. and I get back to these laws and remind myself of them at least once a year (if not more often).

They are much much more deep (especially if you read the real history stories from which they stem) then the list would suggest on first sight. Most notably each of them contains a reversal of the rule under certain circumstances.

I can't recommend highly enough a thorough reading of the book.. the very least you begin being aware and not let others use these archetypal behaviours on you (as someone said.. many people have never read the book but use these 'laws')

[davyj0nes]

gods willing, this attachment went through okay.
4707
I found a PDF file with the 48 powers, should make for an interesting read tonite.

[Shezbeth]

Yeah, that's the 'cliff notes' version, but it makes for an excellent bulleted synopsis. Great find!

[Come As You Are]

The way of power is not the true way.

[Shezbeth]

The way of power is not the true way.

Care to qualify that? Perhaps a description of the 'true way', a follow-up reference, or something more than a vague statement? :suspicious:

[giovonni]

Hrmmm... just happened to run across this. Might want to think of this in terms of "what to watch out for". I won't state any more of the obvious. You all know where this fits in your individual experiences. They may as well title the book: Post-Graduate Illuminati and Other Doctoral Theses :eek:

The 48 Laws of Power is a 1998 book by Robert Greene and Joost Elffers. The book shares thematic elements with Niccolò Machiavelli's The Prince and has been compared to Sun-Tzu's classic treatise The Art of War.

The Laws

* Law 1 Never outshine the master.
* Law 2 Never put too much trust in friends; learn how to use enemies.
* Law 3 Conceal your intentions.
* Law 4 Always say less than necessary.
* Law 5 So much depends on reputation. Guard it with your life.
* Law 6 Court attention at all costs.
* Law 7 Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.
* Law 8 Make other people come to you; use bait if necessary.
* Law 9 Win through your actions, never through argument.
* Law 10 Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.
* Law 11 Learn to keep people dependent on you.
* Law 12 Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim.
* Law 13 When asking for help, appeal to people's self-interests, never to their mercy or gratitude.
* Law 14 Pose as a friend, work as a spy.
* Law 15 Crush your enemy totally.
* Law 16 Use absence to increase respect and honor.
* Law 17 Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability.
* Law 18 Do not build fortresses to protect yourself. Isolation is dangerous.
* Law 19 Know who you're dealing with; do not offend the wrong person.
* Law 20 Do not commit to anyone.
* Law 21 Play a sucker to catch a sucker: play dumber than your mark.
* Law 22 Use the surrender tactic: transform weakness into power.
* Law 23 Concentrate your forces.
* Law 24 Play the perfect courtier.
* Law 25 Re-create yourself.
* Law 26 Keep your hands clean.
* Law 27 Play on people's need to believe to create a cultlike following.
* Law 28 Enter action with boldness.
* Law 29 Plan all the way to the end.
* Law 30 Make your accomplishments seem effortless.
* Law 31 Control the options: get others to play with the cards you deal.
* Law 32 Play to people's fantasies.
* Law 33 Discover each man's thumbscrew.
* Law 34 Be royal in your fashion: act like a king to be treated like one.
* Law 35 Master the art of timing.
* Law 36 Disdain things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best revenge.
* Law 37 Create compelling spectacles.
* Law 38 Think as you like but behave like others.
* Law 39 Stir up waters to catch fish.
* Law 40 Despise the free lunch.
* Law 41 Avoid stepping into a great man's shoes.
* Law 42 Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter.
* Law 43 Work on the hearts and minds of others.
* Law 44 Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect.
* Law 45 Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at once.
* Law 46 Never appear perfect.
* Law 47 Do not go past the mark you aimed for; in victory, learn when to stop.
* Law 48 Assume formlessness.

I think they missed: Law 49 Piss On The Rest.:tape:

Thank you for this my Friend!
this is a wonderful daily > check<>not > list <> to do :moony:

[Come As You Are]

It comes from a Taoist story of LuTung Pin from memory, and how he became an immortal. Great story. Doesn't really require any qualification.
Power corrupts.

The way of power is not the true way.

Care to qualify that? Perhaps a description of the 'true way', a follow-up reference, or something more than a vague statement? :suspicious:

[modwiz]

Being on time.
So much power is given up by being late.
We all are late sometime but...........

[Shezbeth]

It comes from a Taoist story of LuTung Pin from memory, and how he became an immortal. Great story. Doesn't really require any qualification. Power corrupts.

Fantastic. So that's a no then? :doh:


Being on time. So much power is given up by being late.

Unless you do it right ^_~ - Court Attention at All Costs (commonly referred to as being fashionably late)
The book is formulated in four sections for each Law:

Incorrect usage (Transgression of the Law)
Correct Usage (Observance of the Law)
Theory and Principle (Key Aspects/Interpretation)
When Not to Use It (Reversal)

Before formulating an opinion just on this discussion or gut reactions to the concept, I urge individuals to read some of the reviews of the book, a short list available here:

http://www.towerofpower.com.au/review-of-the-48-laws-of-power-by-robert-greene#
http://www.teambuildinginformation.com/the-48-laws-of-power.html
http://www.fairinvestment.co.uk/Bookshop/Book/the-48-laws-of-power/13659/
And there's a pile of customer reviews at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/product-reviews/0140280197/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Taken directly from the Preface, available as a preview on Amazon (STILL can't find my copy ~_~). It's long, so don't feel compelled.

To some people the notion of consciously playing power games - no matter how indirect - seems evil, asocial, a relic of the past. They believe they can opt out of the game by behaving is ways that have nothing to do with power. You must beware of such people, for while they express such opinions outwards, they are often among the most adept players at power. They utilize strategies that cleverly disguise the nature of the manipulation involved. These types, for example, will often display their weakness and lack of power as a kind of moral virtue. But true powerlessness, without any motive of self-interest, would not publicize its weakness to gain sympathy or respect. Making a show of one's weakness is actually a very effective strategy, subtle and deceptive, in the game of power (see Law 22, the Surrender Tactic).

Another strategy of the supposed nonplayer is to demand equality in every area of life. Everyone must be treated alike, whatever their status and strength. But if, to avoid the taint of power, you attempt to treat everyone equally and fairly, you will confront the problem that some people do certain things better than others. Treating everyone equally means ignoring their differences, elevating the less skillful and supressing those who excel. Again, many of those who behave this way are actually developing another power strategy, redistributing people's rewards in a way that they determine.

Yet another way of avoiding the game would be perfect honesty and straightforwardness, since one of the main techniques of those who seek power is deceit and secrecy. But being perfectly honest will inevitably hurt and insult a great many people, some of whom will choose to injure you in return. No one will see your honest statements as completely objective and free of some personal motivation. And they will be right; In truth, the use of honesty is indeed a power strategy, intended to convince people of one's noble, good-hearted, selfless character. It is a form of persuasion, even a subtle form of coercion.

Finally, those who claim to be nonplayers may affect an air of naivete', to protect them from the accusation that they are after power. Beware again, however, for the appearance of naivete' can be an effective means of deceit (see Law 21, Seem Dumber Than Your Mark). And even genuine naivete' is not free from the snares of power. Children may be naive in many ways, but they often act from an elemental need to gain control over those around them. Children suffer greatly from feeling powerless in the adult world, and they use any means available to get their way. Genuinely innocent people may still be playing for power, and are often horribly effective at the game, since they are not hindered by reflection. Once again, those who make a show or display of innocence are the least innocent of all.

You can recognize these supposed nonplayers by the way they flaunt their moral qualities, their piety, their exquisite sense of justice. But since all of us hunger for power, and almost all of our actions are aimed at gaining it, the nonplayers are merely throwing dust in our eyes, distracting us from their power plays with their air of moral superiority. If you observe them closely, you will see in fact that they are often the ones most skillful at indirect manipulation, even if some of them practice it unconsciously. And they greatly resent any publicizing of the tactics they use every day.
If the world is like a giant scheming court and we are trapped inside it, there is no use in trying to opt out of the game. That will only render you powerless, and powerlessness will make you miserable. Instead of struggling against the inevitbale, instead of arguing and whining and feeling guilty, it is far better to excel at power. In fact, the better you are at dealing with power, the better friend, lover, husband, wife, and person you become. By following the route of the perfect courtier (see Law 24) you learn to make others feel better about themselves, becoming a source of pleasure to them. They will grow dependent on your abilities band desirous of your presence. By mastering the 48 Laws in this book, you spare others the pain that comes with bungling with power - by playing with fire without knowing its properties. If the game of power is inescapable, better to be an artist than a denier or a bungler.

I can include more if there is interest. PM requests.

[Chicodoodoo]

Life is all about balance. For example, one must find the proper balance between STS and STO. Laws and rules are the antithesis of balance. The 48 Laws of Power were written for those without balance that are trying desperately to find it (sociopaths come to mind). Of course, following the laws guarantees that balance will not be the result.

[Shezbeth]

Absolutely right IMO. However, cannot balance be achieved by only following the laws half the time?

[3optic]

Life is all about balance. For example, one must find the proper balance between STS and STO. Laws and rules are the antithesis of balance. The 48 Laws of Power were written for those without balance that are trying desperately to find it (sociopaths come to mind). Of course, following the laws guarantees that balance will not be the result.

I read this years ago. It was interesting as a map for a sociopathic mind. Know them by their deeds. I have since been able to diagnose certain behaviors as they relate to these laws. It's helpful to understand this material.

Post Update:

I also read an article in the New Yorker about Robert Greene:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/11/06/061106fa_fact_paumgarten

[Chicodoodoo]

Absolutely right IMO. However, cannot balance be achieved by only following the laws half the time?

That is funny! Made me burst out laughing.... Yes, of course, the balance point is often near the middle, all things being equal. But how often are all things equal?

[Come As You Are]

"But since all of us hunger for power, and almost all of our actions are aimed at gaining it"...

I simply do not agree with this premise. Personal power, (or perhaps, autonomy and genuine self knowledge is what it really is,) is very different from the Power to which these rules refer.
We all seek after our own path, and experience has shown me, that when an attempt is made to force, or exert power, in nature, it is ill placed and often folly. Nature/ Truth/ God, has it's own "agenda"!
Things will find their own balance.

[Shezbeth]

Personal power, (or perhaps, autonomy and genuine self knowledge is what it really is,) is very different from the Power to which these rules refer.

Personal power, SPECIFICALLY autonomy and self-knowledge (power over the self) are one in the same from the 'influencing power' (power exerted over others) you perceive the book to be about. Power is universal. Power is power. It's WHAT ONE DOES with power that polarizes it toward the division you seem to feel is inherent. Whether it is exerted over another or one's self does not change it's nature.

:frusty:

[PathWalker]

I follow the thread, and the term power is used to state some kind of control.
Power is the extraction of energy, it is a universal manifestation.

As for the control power, it is an essential lesson we need to learn personally and as a group.
We are programmed to submit our personal power to the society in order to gain some benefits from the society.
That is how the power structure works.

The abuse of power is critical for our evolution as falling from bicycle (ice skates) is required in order to gain control.
As kids we are physically injured and emotionally traumatized. And we grow strong or weak. That is our choice.

The rules of power are just another control methodology. It is not spiritual, very practical. But has spiritual context and is respected and required.
The STS need the STO and vice versa.

Hope you get my point.

[Arrowwind]

What is vastly more interesting is how to work power in the light... how to work power according to natual and sacred law.
We can learn from our errors as a collective humanity and this book will help one to see the way
but we can learn better from finding our way into harmony with cosmic laws, natural and sacred law.

you can learn from the errors of others
you can learn from the error of yourself
you can learn from dircect connect with the laws of the universe

ever wonder which is the most efficient path?

knowing how not to do something is not the same as knowing how to do something

[Come As You Are]

You seem to be very committed to power. All that knocking your head on brick walls is going to get painful. My opinion on this matter, is simply that, my opinion. Your opinion is your's to live with. Thank You for your obvious concern. I think I'll leave this thread, it's imbued with a strange aggression.

Personal power, (or perhaps, autonomy and genuine self knowledge is what it really is,) is very different from the Power to which these rules refer.

Personal power, SPECIFICALLY autonomy and self-knowledge (power over the self) are one in the same from the 'influencing power' (power exerted over others) you perceive the book to be about. Power is universal. Power is power. It's WHAT ONE DOES with power that polarizes it toward the division you seem to feel is inherent. Whether it is exerted over another or one's self does not change it's nature.

:frusty:

[edina]

If you find that one fascinating, there's also "The Art of Seduction" - all kinds (emotional, romantic, political, etc.) and "The 33 Strategies of War". Useful reading for anyone undertaking an arduous endeavor.

http://powerseductionandwar.com/

Thanks for the link to this article. I wonder sometimes how many people actually dig into this stuff and read what is actually written.

This article gives a great back story as to how Robert Greene decided to become a master observer of humans and power. It was essentially because after a bad experience with a boss he stumbled onto an observation of human behavior that he lists as #1 on the 48 Laws of Power.

This is a fascinating article of a talk he gave about primate, and then human social development. I read the talk, but did not have time to read the Q & A.

I felt resonant with these few paragraphs:

"I determined it is because of his very unusual background. 50 never knew his father. To this day he doesn’t know who his father was. His mother was killed, murdered when he was eight years old. He lived with his grandparents, but basically he was alone. He had no peers. He had no adult supervision. He was basically thrown out onto the streets of Queens with nobody. Nothing. No protection. No parental support. But on the other hand, which we would almost assume is a very negative thing, on the other hand he had nobody telling him who he should be, what he should do, what defines him.

He had to do everything himself. He had to decide who he was, who he wanted to be, without the usual crutches that most of us have. And I decided, I determined that in fact, this reality of his, this, what I call his existential reality, that he was basically alone in the world and had to do things for himself and define who he wanted to be, that is actually the reality of each and every one of us. But we are not aware of it.

We have the illusion that parents, that friends, that all of our support network is going to help us out in the end, that we can define ourselves through other people, by conforming to a group, by being like other people, by doing what other people tell us to do. But that is actually the illusion. That is actually the con game that goes on. The truth is, you are essentially alone in life. You were born alone and you are going to die alone. And although you have these networks of support and they are real and you do have parents, on the other hand, it is really up to you to define who you are and what you want in life.

What 50 had, and what most really powerful people have in life is a sense that they are unique, that there is something very different about them. And to the extent that you bring out your uniqueness in life, that you become more of an individual, that you bring more of your individuality into play, the more power you are going to have."

The person Robert Greene is describing here, the rapper 50 cent, is not a sociopath, or a psychopath, he is a person who has somehow learned to come into his own, as a human being.

While I agree, it is important to be aware of the sociopath/psychopaths among us, sometimes it is simply too easy to label people with whatever the latest fad labels are getting bandied about.

Humans are very often far more complex, and I find labels simply caricaturise a person, it's dehumanizing. Unless, of course, you are actually dealing with an Organic Portal, sociopath, or psychopath, and then, the real McCoy's of these types don't really care what anyone thinks, so labelling them has little affect.

Power, like anger, is not a four letter word. A healthy relationship to our own power can be very important if we want to become effective catalysts for change.

[Shezbeth]

Thank You for your obvious concern. I think I'll leave this thread, it's imbued with a strange aggression.

Ladies and gentlemen! Laws 3, 4, 6, 15, 17, 28, 31, 33, 37, 39, 43, and 48.

Moving along, succesful and detached use of these Laws is necessary to maintain one's self, for they ARE quite seductive. The secrets to this can be found metaphorically and literally in the sections 2, 3, and 4 of the Bhagavad Gita. This isn't the only place of course, just as the 48 Laws isn't the only place to find instruction in power. For benefit of the reader I won't include them all, but a few noteworthy phrases (per my translation) are:

"As a man can drink water from any side a full tank, so the skilled [scholar] can wrest from any [text] that will serve his purpose. [...] Spirituality implies equanimity. [...] It is only the petty-minded who work for reward."
"When a man attains to Pure Reason, he renounces in this world the results of good and evil alike. [...] Wherever he goes, [he] is attached to no person and to no place by ties of flesh, who accepts good and evil alike, neither welcoming the one nor shrinking from the other."
"Right descrimination is not for him who cannot concentrate. Without concentration, there cannot be meditation; he who cannot meditate must not expect peace; and without peace, how can anyone expect happiness"

Suffice it to say - in the wrong hands and with the wrong mindset, the Laws can be quite dangerous to both the individual and their situation. I referred to them as being like a gun for a reason. In the hands of a responsible individual it can be used productively, even to the extent of preventing unnecessary pain/conflict/death. In the hands of an irresponsible individual or perhaps a child, some(one) are(is) likely to get shot unnecessarily. So, I ask this before further inquiry occurs - Are you ready and able to handle a gun?

[edina]

Life is all about balance. For example, one must find the proper balance between STS and STO. Laws and rules are the antithesis of balance. The 48 Laws of Power were written for those without balance that are trying desperately to find it (sociopaths come to mind). Of course, following the laws guarantees that balance will not be the result.

I read this years ago. It was interesting as a map for a sociopathic mind. Know them by their deeds. I have since been able to diagnose certain behaviors as they relate to these laws. It's helpful to understand this material.

Post Update:

I also read an article in the New Yorker about Robert Greene:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/11/06/061106fa_fact_paumgarten

This is an interesting quote from the article linked:

Quincy Jones III, the son of the music producer, is making a documentary about “The 48 Laws” and their ubiquity in the “urban realm.” “I view it more as an empowerment tool than as a way to screw people.”

I think it's important to take things in the context of which they are written.

[Chicodoodoo]

Life is all about balance. For example, one must find the proper balance between STS and STO. Laws and rules are the antithesis of balance. The 48 Laws of Power were written for those without balance that are trying desperately to find it (sociopaths come to mind). Of course, following the laws guarantees that balance will not be the result.

I read this years ago. It was interesting as a map for a sociopathic mind. Know them by their deeds. I have since been able to diagnose certain behaviors as they relate to these laws. It's helpful to understand this material.

What do you mean that you read this years ago? Did you forget to add a link? Or has someone else said the same thing I said? I'm missing something here....

[Come As You Are]

The funny thing about this thread is that on the same day that it was started, I posted these laws in another thread, as I came across them when thinking about the Charles situation here. I wrote about this coincidence, but lost the post.
Shezbeth, I find your powerful and encyclopaedic knowledge quite impressive, I also find your forceful demeanour in expressing your opinion to be challenging and threatening. This is not to say that I feel threatened.
The suspicion you express I don't find helpful. What is your goal?
Teachings?
I am here to learn and participate. I am here to share the journey with others, to ask questions, to consider, to express, to give and to receive.
Thank You for expressing your knowledge. It is fascinating. I will learn from it.
He who blindly pushes upwards deludes himself, knowing only advance, not retreat. Sheng- Pushing Upward

[PathWalker]

You seem to be very committed to power. All that knocking your head on brick walls is going to get painful. My opinion on this matter, is simply that, my opinion. Your opinion is your's to live with. Thank You for your obvious concern. I think I'll leave this thread, it's imbued with a strange aggression.

The strange energy is reptilian energy. Very much about aggression and control on one hand, on the other hand very ritualistic and expected (no innovations).

This is part of our experience. It is our choice how to respond to it.

[T Smith]

I
Arrowwind, I understand and appreciate if that is your final impression on the matter, but these laws are not about manipulation unless put toward that purpose. They are just as effectively used to avoid manipulation, again depending on the individual using them.

Pardon me for asking, but what about you implies that they ARE about manipulation?


The laws promote falseness and lies and teach people to be disingenuine while persuing the affairs of the world. When you are tangled up in all that how does one keep track of who they really are? How do you make heart to heart contact with all this going on? Many of these rules are keynote symptoms of a master manipulator. I have learned my way out of such behavior over incarnations as I think many here likely have. Im just calling it as I see it,
my opinion might be wrong for another who has a different path to journey



Hmm... very interesting discussion. Power implies manipulation, by definition, but if you manipulate to counter being manipulated, is this still not manipulation? Or does it cancel out power?

This reminds me of a very profound dream I had just the other night. In my travels I encountered a rather playful, somewhat sinister entity who, for its bemusement, could manipulate the movements and those with whom it came into contact. This was fun for it to do, like a game. This entity viewed life-energy like a child might view a ball -- something to be thrown up in the air, against a wall, and played with per its will. It was quite powerful. This physical manipulation was all mental.

When I approached this spirit, it was puzzled by me -- I was generally understood as a lower life form, but for some reason it could not "move" me. It was fascinated (and amused) that I was somehow immune to its power.

Of course what was really going on, as I understood it, was i was countering its every move on me, in tandum -- almost like a balancing exercise. As it exerted its power to move me to the left, I simply moved with an exact counter movement to the right.

The illusion was, I stood still and the entity had no power over me whatsoever....

Of course this was just a dream. But somehow I think it's relevant and speaks to this discussion...

[3optic]

Life is all about balance. For example, one must find the proper balance between STS and STO. Laws and rules are the antithesis of balance. The 48 Laws of Power were written for those without balance that are trying desperately to find it (sociopaths come to mind). Of course, following the laws guarantees that balance will not be the result.

I read this years ago. It was interesting as a map for a sociopathic mind. Know them by their deeds. I have since been able to diagnose certain behaviors as they relate to these laws. It's helpful to understand this material.

What do you mean that you read this years ago? Did you forget to add a link? Or has someone else said the same thing I said? I'm missing something here....

Not sure what you're missing. I read 48 Laws. Not a time traveler! :P

My post was made in haste. Sorry for the ambiguity.

[Shezbeth]

The funny thing about this thread is that on the same day that it was started, I posted these laws in another thread, as I came across them when thinking about the Charles situation here. I wrote about this coincidence, but lost the post.
Shezbeth, I find your powerful and encyclopaedic knowledge quite impressive, I also find your forceful demeanour in expressing your opinion to be challenging and threatening. This is not to say that I feel threatened.
The suspicion you express I don't find helpful. What is your goal?
Teachings?
I am here to learn and participate. I am here to share the journey with others, to ask questions, to consider, to express, to give and to receive.
Thank You for expressing your knowledge. It is fascinating. I will learn from it.
He who blindly pushes upwards deludes himself, knowing only advance, not retreat. Sheng- Pushing Upward


LOL #22. I thought you were leaving. :smokin:

Let me be quite clear. I am not telling anyone to think or do anything. I am direct in the face of ambiguity. I purport this material with the following caveat, directed at all who read this.

Know this material or it WILL be used against you.

In all likelihood, it probaby already is being without your knowledge. :eyebrows:

[Shezbeth]

Have you ever discoursed with a Shaolin monk? Some of the most balanced, peaceful, and serene individuals you may ever meet. Have you ever seen them fight? Bloody savages! Eye gouges, thrown rocks, EVERYTHING is fair game. This philosophy applies to power.

BTW, the act of me going on in detail of the workings of and how to resource power is actually a powerless practice. It is in direct defiance of SEVERAL of the laws.

Beware the power games of others. I see them used more and more in recent days.

[Maria Stade]

No have never heard of them ?

Are they using chi ?

[Shezbeth]

Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-bnC4iaslg&feature=related

Please note, those are kids/adolescents doing the demonstrations. ^_~

[PathWalker]

The 48 rules, are part of the control power mechanisms.
Essentially there are 2 basic principles to the take control - fear and scarcity.

If you as person is attracted to power and control then you are biased to service to self (which is not bad).
If you as person is attracted to service and compassion then you are biased to service to others (which is not bad as well).

The personal bias to either polarity is a spiritual path. Both are important to trigger each other into awakening (yin and yang).

The 48 rules are tools: as important as algebra tools to the mathematician, tools to the controller on his path.
Exposing them here is a service to both biased entities in order to self reflect and recognize your own personal bias.

Enjoy it. Reflect on the emotional response you have while reading the rules. The emotional response is indication of bias. Strong emotional response intensify the bias (programming).

[DNA]

This information is awesome! I never knew how much my work place resembles the tv show :Game Of Thrones". These techniques are easier to spot once you've been exposed to them in the written form.

[Shezbeth]

I am glad you think so; it is definitely not everyone's cup of tea!

Its been a while, so I can't recall exactly if I have said so before, but in case I haven't,....

The 48 Laws are simply an outline of the dynamics of power, which can be likened to the force. Whether one prescribes to the dark side or the light side, a master must know and be aware of both. In context, a person is well suited to studying or being aware of all the aspects of the Laws, whether to literally practice some/all of the laws, or to remove one's self from the susceptibility of some/all of the laws (and also to identify other practitioners).

Carrying a theme from another thread forward, this is a matter of risk assessment and preemptive mediation.