The Charles Material and its effect on the hegemony of the NWO agenda and debate.

[Icecold]

Hegemony is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over other groups. It requires the consent of the majority to keep the dominant group in power. The term has come to be used in a variety of other contexts.


Like no other Material previously disclosed, the Charles material has polarized the NWO debate. The greatest effect it has achieved is to move the focus of the NWO debate AWAY from the United States where it has been dominant since the origins of the debate.

Prior to release of the Charles material the NWO debate was dominated by American whistleblowers and American disclosure experts. This view does not say that disclosure experts were not present in other parts of the world, the view is saying that the hegemony relating to the debate rested firmly in the hands of US disclosure community. They WERE the dominant group.

The greatest effect of the Charles material has been to shift the hegemony from the United States to Europe. Specifically the UK. This has cause an uproar in the disclosure community.

This has dramatically affected the career paths of not only US disclosure experts, but also US whistleblowers. It has fundamentally turned people’s heads away from their stories. This must have ramifications and we can see them unfolding now as the realization sinks in.

In response to this realization, for example, Kerry Cassidy has mounted a campaign which challenges the Charles material at many levels. She is beginning to marshal her forces such among some of the whistleblowers whose limelight has been put in the shade, as it were, by the Charles material. Duncan O’Finnian, Heather, there will be others. There is a concerted attempt being made by Kerry Cassidy and her allies, to get involved in the Charles material while on the other hand working hard to discredit the material. This is a critical priority for the Kerry Cassidy brigade for one reason that is that it may be the case that after recruiting the 18, Charles will fundamentally disappear from the scene and be largely unavailable for comment. This seems obvious; Charles is not in the vein of US whistleblowers who are public celebrities. So Kerry needs to move fast to get her people into the debate, before the Charles information goes underground.

The major difference between the Charles material and the existing US NWO order material is that the US material has no effective road down which to travel, other than hoping that the public will wake up enough to engage in a revolution against the NWO. On the other hand, the Charles material has made it clear there is a plan in place and that plan will be carried out with the help of a selected group of people. In other words, something is planned to start, a practical approach which the US NWO debate does not have. The US story is in a holding pattern designed to create various lecturing careers for a variety of whistleblowers, NWO experts and pseudo prophets. The careers are reminiscent of the Oprah Winfrey cult of personality, American phenomena.





Let's discuss this view........

[Humble Janitor]

*Yawn*

Divide and conquer, the same 'ol game. Nothing ever changes.

Charles will pass like Blossom Goodchild and Keisha Crowther. Just another new-age fad.

[Icecold]

*Yawn*

Divide and conquer, the same 'ol game. Nothing ever changes.

Charles will pass like Blossom Goodchild and Keisha Crowther. Just another new-age fad.

Speaking of the US inspired de-bunking of the Charles material....maybe we should run a poll regarding the support and opposition to the Charles material by national interest.

I made a bet with myself that you would be the first member to post. You didn't disappoint. ;)

[Humble Janitor]

You are attempting to shoot poison darts at Kerry Cassidy. Why not go on her own forum and tell it to her? I have dual membership at both forums but I spend most of my time here. Go figure.

How could anyone not see the Charles material as a publicity stunt? With this talk about him starting his own site, it all sounds like marketing genius:

Create dissent, cull your herd and lead them over to another forum where you can shuck and devour them.

Again, you can call Kerry out on her own turf rather than from the safe confines of Avalon castle.

[Icecold]

ROTFLMAO.

Keep communicating please this is interesting. :cool:

[Humble Janitor]

*Yawn*

Divide and conquer, the same 'ol game. Nothing ever changes.

Charles will pass like Blossom Goodchild and Keisha Crowther. Just another new-age fad.

Speaking of the US inspired de-bunking of the Charles material....maybe we should run a poll regarding the support and opposition to the Charles material by national interest.

I made a bet with myself that you would be the first member to post. You didn't disappoint. ;)

One more thing: Nationality does not matter in this game. All Western nations are under the control of the 33 and so forth.

I am not a patriotic person but thank you for trying to use my nationality as an indicator of ignorance. I could say things about your country as well but I'm above that.

[Icecold]

I thought you didn't believe in the Charles material?


All Western nations are under the control of the 33 and so forth.

Fishy isn't it. ;)




How could anyone not see the Charles material as a publicity stunt?

No one said that except you. :eek:

[moais]

We are all on the wrong track if we say we are on the right track!!!!!!!!!

[Calz]

Hegemony is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over other groups. It requires the consent of the majority to keep the dominant group in power. The term has come to be used in a variety of other contexts.


Like no other Material previously disclosed, the Charles material has polarized the NOW debate. The greatest effect it has achieved is to move the focus of the NOW debate AWAY from the United States where it has been dominant since the origins of the debate.

Prior to release of the Charles material the NWO debate was dominated by American whistleblowers and American disclosure experts. This view does not say that disclosure experts were not present in other parts of the world, the view is saying that the hegemony relating to the debate rest firmly in the hands of US disclosure community. They WERE the dominant group.

The greatest effect of the Charles material has been to shift the hegemony from the United States to Europe. Specifically the UK. This has cause uproar in the disclosure community.

This has dramatically affected the career paths of not only US disclosure experts, but also US whistleblowers. It has fundamentally turned people’s heads away from their stories. This must have ramifications and we can see them unfolding now as the realization sinks in.

In response to this realization, for example, Kerry Cassidy has mounted a campaign which challenges the Charles material at many levels. She is beginning to marshal her forces such among some of the whistleblowers whose limelight has been put in the shade, as it were, by the Charles material. Duncan O’Finnian, Heather, there will be others. There is a concerted attempt being made by Kerry Cassidy and her allies, to get involved in the Charles material while on the other hand working hard to discredit the material. This is a critical priority for the Kerry Cassidy brigade for one reason that is that it may be the case that after recruiting the 18, Charles will fundamentally disappear from the scene and be largely unavailable for comment. This seems obvious; Charles is not in the vein of US whistleblowers who are public celebrities. So Kerry needs to move fast to get her people into the debate, before the Charles information goes underground.

The major difference between the Charles material and the existing US NWO order material is that the US material has no effective road down which to travel, other than hoping that the public will wake up enough to engage in a revolution against the NWO. On the other hand, the Charles material has made it clear there is a plan in place and that plan will be carried out with the help of a selected group of people. In other words, something is planned to start, a practical approach which the US NWO debate does not have. The US story is in a holding pattern designed to create various lecturing careers for a variety of whistleblowers, NWO experts and pseudo prophets. The careers are reminiscent of the Oprah Winfrey cult of personality, American phenomena.





Let's discuss this view........

Ice I have really come to repect you. You caught my attention with your opinion regarding wilcock since I have been a long time follower of david's material.

Yes that has nothing to do with charles.

I don't have insider information or experience. No whistleblower or black op boy here.

Just a guy.

My gut tells me that *no* *one* really knows what is coming down in the next decade.

Lotso money building underground.

So who is left in charge now??? 33 broken up (allegedly). Satinists? Suits?

You come across as one that "knows" yet is respectful (and I appreciate that).

You think anyone (human or otherwise) has more power than what "Mother Earth" will do to protect herself???

Really??? If so explain it to us.

No way am I "picking on you" specifically. You don't come across as the latest of saviours that have appeared here to illuminate all us poor humans as to our history and future. Charles appears to be going offline for awhile until he can get his own site going ... the heather material gives me a headache ... who knows? Enlightened has returned to hell? I have the deepest repect for Bill (and that is why many of us are here) but he has his hands full.

I am reaching out to you to synthesize what your take is with your "backchannel information" with ... whoever. No worship ... not asking you to fill in the void as the latest guru to pontificate to Avalon. Again I have come to respect you and would be interested to hear your take. There are others here I have a deep respect for but this is your thread ... and I am responding.

Respectfully and gratefully,

Cal

*** after post edit ***

duncan - *DING DING DING* (Art Bell)

nation states - illusion for the most part doncha think???

kerry vs bill take on charles - I trust bill's take yet appreciate kerry's intuition - catch 22 ???

[firstlook]

So what are we discussing?

The celebration of UK truthers and the Fall of American Truthers?

seems silly if you think about it.

We should support each other no matter any seemingly different cultural barriers.

Just some thoughts.

[jorr lundstrom]

Arent they down to the 7. :tape2:

[firstlook]

Icecold,

I keep re reading your OP. Could you be more specific about how you think The Hegemony is different between the two groups?

Do you see it presenting different aspects?

thanks. :)

[Icecold]

Calz, thanks for the post mate,

I take no offence at anything you said in your post.

I respect your opinion greatly.


You think anyone (human or otherwise) has more power than what "Mother Earth" will do to protect herself???

No I don't. I love 'mother earth' and would like to protect her from those that seek to exploit and destroy her. I do understand her power. I agree with you.

What I'm saying Calz, is that there is now a devious effort to subvert the Charles material for purposes of not only restoring the hegemony of the debate to the US NWO experts, but to also seize control of the material for whatever purpose. The purpose may be sinister depending on who gains insider access to the material.

I believe Atticus will know to protect himself as a source.

[Icecold]

We should support each other no matter any seemingly different cultural barriers.

Oh I agree. However, that's not my point.

[firstlook]

We should support each other no matter any seemingly different cultural barriers.

Oh I agree. However, that's not my point.

Are you saying that Like alot of the truth movement, Whistle blowing is being corrupted by individual corporate interests?

[take]

*Yawn*

Divide and conquer, the same 'ol game. Nothing ever changes.

Charles will pass like Blossom Goodchild and Keisha Crowther. Just another new-age fad.


You are attempting to shoot poison darts at Kerry Cassidy. Why not go on her own forum and tell it to her? I have dual membership at both forums but I spend most of my time here. Go figure.

How could anyone not see the Charles material as a publicity stunt? With this talk about him starting his own site, it all sounds like marketing genius:

Create dissent, cull your herd and lead them over to another forum where you can shuck and devour them.

Ouch.
What has been divided/dividing? Avalon? People? Opinions?
And who has been doing it? And why? Charles has not, Bill has not... nor has the material. Once again, the answer lies within. (and I'm not talking about lying here)

Who cares about who cares about the Charles material and who doesn't. Energy is wasted on useless debating (in general), don't you think? Whatever you think, I doubt that there is any need to take it personally and feel any division.

Take it easy.
Take care.

Peace.

[Icecold]

Are you saying that Like alot of the truth movement, Whistle blowing is being corrupted by individual corporate interests?

Very good firstlook, in a way yes.

What I am not saying is that people like yourself, mr and mrs 'honest seeker of truth' have anything to do with it, no matter what your nationality.
We as truth seekers, as apart from certain Whistleblower and NWO experts, are innocent parties.

[firstlook]

Ouch.
What has been divided/dividing? Avalon? People? Opinions?
And who has been doing it? And why? Charles has not, Bill has not... nor has the material. Once again, the answer lies within. (and I'm not talking about lying here)

Who cares about who cares about the Charles material and who doesn't. Energy is wasted on useless debating, don't you think? Whatever you think, I doubt that there is any need to take it personally and feel any division.

Take it easy.
Take care.

Peace.

I dont think its useless. I think there is a valid issue being brought up here.

I think it has to do with what a Whistle Blowers role is in the truth community.

Not sure yet though.

[firstlook]

Very good firstlook, in a way yes.

What I am not saying is that people like yourself, mr and mrs 'honest seeker of truth' have anything to do with it, no matter what your nationality.
We as truth seekers, as apart from certain Whistleblower and NWO experts, are innocent parties.

I can understand this outlook.

But I have a question, maybe you can answer it.

Is any part of the truth movement more responsible for organizing a change? Whether it be whistle blowers, lecturers, writers, researchers, radio show hosts, etc.... (The social aspect)

If you are commending Charles for organizing sort of a step up for people to respond, I totally agree on that. But is it because of his title as whistle blower? It might seem like a silly question, but the fact that he presents insider information, I dont think should have baring on what responsibilities he has when it comes to organizing peoples intentions.

That should be appreciated to the person and not the title, IMO.

[Icecold]

Firstlook:


Is any part of the truth movement more responsible for organizing a change? Whether it be whistle blowers, lecturers, writers, researchers, radio show hosts, etc.... (The social aspect)

This is a good question.

I'd say no. As human beings we have a duty to do our best to organise a change, whether we are Whistleblowers, NWO experts or truth seekers. Its a duty of care.

[take]

Ouch.
What has been divided/dividing? Avalon? People? Opinions?
And who has been doing it? And why? Charles has not, Bill has not... nor has the material. Once again, the answer lies within. (and I'm not talking about lying here)

Who cares about who cares about the Charles material and who doesn't. Energy is wasted on useless debating, don't you think? Whatever you think, I doubt that there is any need to take it personally and feel any division.

Take it easy.
Take care.

Peace.

I dont think its useless. I think there is a valid issue being brought up here.

I think it has to do with what a Whistle Blowers role is in the truth community.

Not sure yet though.

Yeah, I just noticed I failed quoting in the previous post. It was a reply to this (hope this works)




*Yawn*

Divide and conquer, the same 'ol game. Nothing ever changes.

Charles will pass like Blossom Goodchild and Keisha Crowther. Just another new-age fad.

And it was (a too much of) a generalization of this whole debating about the charles material and the person itself. It has seemed pretty shallow and useless so far, people taking sides and getting all heated up for nothing. (again, a huge generalization). At least that's the image I've gotten so far. To be honest I haven't bothered to pay much attention to the debate, cos I don't see it as productive. I wasn't referring to the debate you guys are having now, which has to do with the whistleblower's role and responsibility.

By all means, if there are some important issues that someone wants to or feels likes they should clarify, by all means. As long as they are making a point and when it is going somewhere. And as long as it is objective.

Just opinions here, nothing productive. Oh the irony.

Sorry. Tired. 1 am and I'm not making much sense. Good night.

[sjkted]

Speaking of the US inspired de-bunking of the Charles material....maybe we should run a poll regarding the support and opposition to the Charles material by national interest.

I made a bet with myself that you would be the first member to post. You didn't disappoint.


Fads need a chance to run their course. I'd be willing to bet your post will be a laughing stock in 6 months.

--sjkted

[firstlook]

Sort of like keeping the information separate from any results. Because the results depend on individual interest, value, and effort.

And the information is not Charles. Meaning while we may reflect upon his intentions and validity, the information must stand alone.

Its an interesting topic of separating Information and what to do with that information.

I actually think this is the discipline that needs discussing so we can allow all the different reactions that are bound to happen as our numbers grow.

So many people, with so many talents and interests.

[sjkted]

You are attempting to shoot poison darts at Kerry Cassidy. Why not go on her own forum and tell it to her? I have dual membership at both forums but I spend most of my time here. Go figure.

How could anyone not see the Charles material as a publicity stunt? With this talk about him starting his own site, it all sounds like marketing genius:

Create dissent, cull your herd and lead them over to another forum where you can shuck and devour them.

Again, you can call Kerry out on her own turf rather than from the safe confines of Avalon castle.

Yep, this is the same strategy as they have used in the Middle East. First there was one roughly united group. Then they fracture again (AV1 -> AV2) while some of the people leave to the mists, making four groups. As far as I'm concerned, we are now in AV3 where many more members will leave and perhaps pitch their tents elsewhere on the internet. When they're done, we will have the Tower of Babel problem and won't be in communication with each other due to all the splits and fragmentation.

--sjkted

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I believe Atticus will know to protect himself as a source.


Why would he need protection? He's doing his job. He wasn't sent to deal with Bill -- he was sent to deal with us. And, he's doing a damn fine job at it.

--sjkted

[firstlook]

Firstlook:


Is any part of the truth movement more responsible for organizing a change? Whether it be whistle blowers, lecturers, writers, researchers, radio show hosts, etc.... (The social aspect)

This is a good question.

I'd say no. As human beings we have a duty to do our best to organise a change, whether we are Whistleblowers, NWO experts or truth seekers. Its a duty of care.

Indeed. Although it does seem that grouping of some sorts really does bring about some inspiration to change as a whole/group.

makes sense really, but I think we forget this at times.

Its such a balancing act to juggle what type of avenue you feel most related to and understanding, while still trying to represent just being a honest human being.

Now I remember why I dont like politics so much. :)

[Lazlo]

Meh....

My take on it is that the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles, for the most part, isn't claiming anything new "It's all out there, it has to be" "you know this already" and yet he is getting all of the attention right now.

IMO the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles is garnering attention for summarizing their views. The plagarized are always indignant.

Eidt to add:

This doesn't mean that Charles isn't who he says he is, just that it is rubbing some folks the wrong way.

[sjkted]

That's another issue we have: being a whistleblower to get the word out vs. profiting from it and seeking personal attention.

--sjkted

[modwiz]

Great post Brother.

You are brilliant pointing out that whistleblowers have franchises that are their bread and butter. No hard proof, no plans and stay safe. Our next whistlepalooza tour is.....(pick a date) Beats a day job.

You have serious grapes my Alpha Wolf friend. The Icecold view.

To see that Charles actually is creating a feet on the ground action plan must be making the franchisees feel a little neutered.

Once the teams and Charles disappear into productive invisibility there will be a loud sucking noise, and it won't be an inward breath for a sigh of relief either.

The ghost of Guy Fawkes has entered the building reducing former superstars to booing specters and the spirits are getting restless.

I really hope your post is "grokked' properly because you have hit the donkey between the eyes.

[firstlook]

That's another issue we have: being a whistleblower to get the word out vs. profiting from it and seeking personal attention.

--sjkted

Yep. Here something to think about.

Say a person comes out such as Charles and gives the community his story and information. Of course this is done through whatever stage that either he seeks out or is offered to him.

This informations is free, based on the conscience of spreading the word to overall keep people......safe. Thats the general bottom line IMO.

Heres where people need to discern what this whistle blower is responsible for after......

If he chooses to write a book, start a radio programming, etc.... You have to allow the person to provide a service.

Its a balance really. There will always be people saying, "its nothing new", but that is besides the point.

I dont think its necessarily about if a former whistle blowers profits from his previous disclosure, but how he chooses to fund his avenue of truth and service.

Keep things fair and people will pay for a perspective that they agree with, because it serves as a reminder that they most likely want and need.

So maybe its not about IF they profit from their views, but how they choose to advertise there opinion. Is it balanced? Does it slander others? Is it inclusive of the listeners, readers, etc...


Basically its about changing the idea of what a corporation is.

IMO.

[frodo13]

The problem with whistleblowers or anyone else is perspective. Truth is indivdual ,based on life expereiances and is different for everyone.So all real truths come from within and have to be felt to be beleived. Sorry about spelling errors, spellcheck won't workfor some reason

[firstlook]

The problem with whistleblowers or anyone else is perspective. Truth is indivdual ,based on life expereiances and is different for everyone.So all real truths come from within and have to be felt to be beleived.

http://www.powertothrive.com/images/elephant_again.jpg

[Icecold]

To Modwiz:

Brother, your eloquence and literary craft would bring a smile to the face of Francis Bacon I'm sure.

Thank you for your view. As always I appreciate your keen perception and reflection.

Good luck to us all in our endeavours to restore hope and bring emancipation from the despair of our times.

[modwiz]

Meh....

My take on it is that the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles, for the most part, isn't claiming anything new "It's all out there, it has to be" "you know this already" and yet he is getting all of the attention right now.

IMO the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles is garnering attention for summarizing their views. The plagarized are always indignant.

Eidt to add:

This doesn't mean that Charles isn't who he says he is, just that it is rubbing some folks the wrong way.

They aren't upset about the summarizing of former views. Charles has disturbed the game of ''pass the talking stick''.

Plagiarizing Charles will require actually wanting to do something.

[vibrations]

I appreciate very much this calm and wise approach Icecold gave us. There is something which bothers me in let say "whistleblower business". There are lot of people who became easily drunk by the popularity, and when the information they brought ends, it is always very small gap from stop talking or be embraced with audience giving some "new" details which can be the fruit of imagination. US is a country of marketing, everything is for sale and popularity, money and fame are very strong drugs.
Regarding Charles I would like to say that my feelings are very positive, I just feel that there is a lot of truth in his words and I like his style. And for the other part a lot of "famous" whistleblowers seemed to me a lot closer to a show people.
And when I am in doubt, I just put the received info on a virtual shelf without any obsession and very soon some proof tells me where the truth is. By this method I started to believe in Charles's words.

[Ahkenaten]

it all sounds like a fantastic movie script - which it probably is

[aikisaw]

[B]
The greatest effect of the Charles material has been to shift the hegemony from the United States to Europe. Specifically the UK. This has cause uproar in the disclosure community.

This has dramatically affected the career paths of not only US disclosure experts, but also US whistleblowers. It has fundamentally turned people’s heads away from their stories. This must have ramifications and we can see them unfolding now as the realization sinks in.

In response to this realization, for example, Kerry Cassidy has mounted a campaign which challenges the Charles material at many levels. She is beginning to marshal her forces such among some of the whistleblowers whose limelight has been put in the shade, as it were, by the Charles material. Duncan O’Finnian, Heather, there will be others. There is a concerted attempt being made by Kerry Cassidy and her allies, to get involved in the Charles material while on the other hand working hard to discredit the material. This is a critical priority for the Kerry Cassidy brigade for one reason that is that it may be the case that after recruiting the 18, Charles will fundamentally disappear from the scene and be largely unavailable for comment. This seems obvious; Charles is not in the vein of US whistleblowers who are public celebrities. So Kerry needs to move fast to get her people into the debate, before the Charles information goes underground.


Let's discuss this view........

Your point as I see it is that the Charles vid and thread started a turf war. For what? If you want a career waking people up in the USA or Europe, one thing you don't have to worry about is finding enough people which to wake up. So that would leave the turf war for the hearts and minds of the people that are already woken up. I have no idea world numbers for people that are aware. The numbers here at Avalon as I understand are around 1,000 that came after Charles.

It would seem that a game is being played that I do not know about.

I do not pretend to know Kerry's or the whisleblowers motives for challenging the Charles material. I do not fault them for doing it. It needs to be challenged. I trust Bill and he is the reason I joined Avalon. It is easy to see that Bill was touched by Charles. Does Bill have a blind spot in the whole Charles scenario? I do not know but I am glad someone is checking. Is it possible that Kerry is doing all this to help Bill?


The major difference between the Charles material and the existing US NWO order material is that the US material has no effective road down which to travel, other than hoping that the public will wake up enough to engage in a revolution against the NWO. On the other hand, the Charles material has made it clear there is a plan in place and that plan will be carried out with the help of a selected group of people. In other words, something is planned to start, a practical approach which the US NWO debate does not have. The US story is in a holding pattern designed to create various lecturing careers for a variety of whistleblowers, NWO experts and pseudo prophets. The careers are reminiscent of the Oprah Winfrey cult of personality, American phenomena.


I agree with you that the material has no effective road which to travel. I would expand that to all whisleblowers and NWO experts from all country's have hit the wall. All are waiting for the next event to happen that will jump start the Revolution.

Is one master, Charles, and 18 others enough of a plan? We shall see.

Oprah??? You leave Oprah out of it. :o

[jorr lundstrom]

Firstlook:


Is any part of the truth movement more responsible for organizing a change? Whether it be whistle blowers, lecturers, writers, researchers, radio show hosts, etc.... (The social aspect)

This is a good question.

I'd say no. As human beings we have a duty to do our best to organise a change, whether we are Whistleblowers, NWO experts or truth seekers. Its a duty of care.

I like that Ice.

And I think its important to realize that there are always those trying to sabotage the process of change.

I remember what happened in "Time to move on" yesterday, kind of Columbine. And knowing who had the machinegun

in that drama. Hmmm Im a cautious man. We´ll see..........:cool:

[modwiz]

So far, lukewarm response as people rearrange the lounge chairs on the deck of the Titanic and blood trickles from the ears of the stranger from a strange land

I don't think Oprah will be joining us.

[NancyV]

Since Charles may largely "disappear from the scene" after deciding upon the 18 it probably doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, pro or con. The noise from Kerry and a few others is rather unimportant if Charles actually has a mission that he follows up on. He should not care what they say and if he's for real he most likely doesn't care. What motives Kerry and the other whistle blowers have is another story and though your analysis is interesting I'm sure it's more multi-layered than that.

Hopefully the two of you, Ice and Modwiz, will be part of the 18 because you will undoubtedly find out whether Charles has anything other than some rather cryptic words and some psychic powers that will prove to you that he has a workable plan. I think you are smart enough to figure out fairly quickly after getting to know his ideas if they are viable or ridiculous. Others of us may never know what is going on and that's fine with me, but if you judge that it turns out to be some kind of dis-info and disruption op I hope you will eventually tell us.

No matter what I or anyone else thinks, what Charles says will either be real or bunk. We don't know yet and until we do know we can only guess or go on our instincts. Even though my opinion is definitely leaning one way I'm always open to being wrong and of course I would wish anyone great success in any venture designed to change things positively for humankind and this world.

Nancy

[modwiz]

Our American whistleblower scene is evoking an image of the Entmoot in the LOTR Two Towers. Meriadoc is upset that a war is starting and the Ents are just talking, because, "It takes a long time to say anything in Olde Entish".

It is clear English Cockney is being "hasty".

Nancy V, very thoughtful and generous post. Thank you for your blessing should a call come but,
all bets are off unless there are going to be cookies.

[Cottage Rose]

You are attempting to shoot poison darts at Kerry Cassidy. Why not go on her own forum and tell it to her? I have dual membership at both forums but I spend most of my time here. Go figure.

How could anyone not see the Charles material as a publicity stunt? With this talk about him starting his own site, it all sounds like marketing genius:

Create dissent, cull your herd and lead them over to another forum where you can shuck and devour them.

Again, you can call Kerry out on her own turf rather than from the safe confines of Avalon castle.

Humble Janitor: You have been around long enough to know that Icecold's focus is on facts and brilliant ideas not dart thowing if you have been paying attention. Why are you ginding an axe over here? We are in brainstorming mode minding our own business. We don't want to come to Camelot and argue with anyone. We are well past that stage and don't have time for such activities.

Everyone please forgive me for saying this. I have always had great respect for Kerry's talent and abilities. But, I have been very dissappointed with her stance on this. I can't help feeling she would have been full on board if Charles had chosen to be interviewed by her. It appears to me she is fighting back in jealousy, or she is stuck in an "He's a Jag, He's a Jag, He's Jag.....loop" keeping her brain on tilt. It feels to me she is more concerned with her position and popularity than opening her mind to our community receiving assistance in moving forward. I am picking up power play mode and it is not pretty.

My Grandfather used to tell me there are basically four types of people in this world:
(The majority fall into the first 3 catagories and the 4th is comprised of a very small percentage of the population.)
1) Those that talk about themselves.
2) Those that talk about others (gossip).
3) Those that talk about current events.
4) Those that talk about thoughts and ideas.

Icecold falls into the 4th category. Which are you?

Party's over. Could we kindly escort you to the door?

[firstlook]

Lets get back on topic about Whistle blowers and their roles in this community.

[firstlook]

Our American whistleblower scene is evoking an image of the Entmoot in the LOTR Two Towers. Meriadoc is upset that a war is starting and the Ents are just talking, because, "It takes a long time to say anything in Olde Entish".

It is clear English Cockney is being "hasty".

I dont think country has much to do with establishing honorable intentions and reflections.

Surely its about finding balance in each of the sub-topics that come with a public voice, does it not?

Economics
Presentation
Research
Interaction
etc....

These seem more prudent in breaking down in which ways to fairly gage a Persons focus in the truth community.

"Sometimes a person can find their destiny on the road they took to avoid it" - The International

And we take many roads everyday. So I think its about getting alot of us to create a structure that perhaps will spiderweb out through the community as a balanced outlook of responsibilities.

[kinerkid]

I've thought about the whistleblower business - I've got no problem with people charging money. It's energy for energy. That being said, I have often wondered how many just jump on something irrelevant or false to keep the money flowing in.

Certainly offering differing viewpoints on the Charles material creates a whirlpool for people to congregate who share that opinion.

Some of that is necessary to allow for dialogue and debate.

Guess I'm saying it's all good either way. It's up to the individual's discernment.

It will be interesting to see in the coming months if the whistleblower wind blows the way of the UK more. I'm willing to watch & wait.

Thanks for a thought provoking post Ice!

[modwiz]

You are attempting to shoot poison darts at Kerry Cassidy. Why not go on her own forum and tell it to her? I have dual membership at both forums but I spend most of my time here. Go figure.

How could anyone not see the Charles material as a publicity stunt? With this talk about him starting his own site, it all sounds like marketing genius:

Create dissent, cull your herd and lead them over to another forum where you can shuck and devour them.

Again, you can call Kerry out on her own turf rather than from the safe confines of Avalon castle.

Humble Janitor: You have been around long enough to know that Icecold's focus is on facts and brilliant ideas not dart thowing if you have been paying attention. Why are you ginding an axe over here? We are in brainstorming mode minding our own business. We don't want to come to Camelot and argue with anyone. We are well past that stage and don't have time for such activities.

Everyone please forgive me for saying this. I have always had great respect for Kerry's talent and abilities. But, I have been very dissappointed with her stance on this. I can't help feeling she would have been full on board if Charles had chosen to be interviewed by her. It appears to me she is fighting back in jealousy, or her she is stuck in an "He's a Jag, He's a Jag, He's Jag.....loop" keeping her brain on tilt. It feels to me she is more concerned with her position and popularity than opening her mind to our community receiving assistance in moving forward. I am picking up power play mode and it is not pretty.

My Grandfather used to tell me there are basically four types of people in this world:
(The majority fall into the first 3 catagories and the 4th is comprised of a very small percentage of the population.)
1) Those that talk about themselves.
2) Those that talk about others (gossip).
3) Those that talk about current events.
4) Those that talk about thoughts and ideas.

Icecold falls into the 4th category. Which are you?

Party's over. Could we kindly escort you to the door?

Ooh baby. This Rose has some thorns. LOL

[kinerkid]

[
Ooh baby. This Rose has some thorns. LOL

"just like every night has it's dawn
every cowboy sings a sad sad song"

Damn.... now I have that song stuck in my head.

Thanks alot modwiz.... LOL

[Ahkenaten]

I think it is really quite an extraordinary claim that the charles material has had an impact on the current power paradigm and the NWO. I seriously doubt that it has had much of an impact other than as a test case to analyze and assess the impact of alternative media on current events, specifically - politics, which as we know is the area with barbed wire around it that dirty human peasants are not allowed to traverse, let alone trample.

[modwiz]

kerry vs bill take on charles - I trust bill's take yet appreciate kerry's intuition - catch 22 ???

You're bound to catch something with that take .:flame:

[Lazlo]

Meh....

My take on it is that the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles, for the most part, isn't claiming anything new "It's all out there, it has to be" "you know this already" and yet he is getting all of the attention right now.

IMO the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles is garnering attention for summarizing their views. The plagarized are always indignant.

Eidt to add:

This doesn't mean that Charles isn't who he says he is, just that it is rubbing some folks the wrong way.

They aren't upset about the summarizing of former views. Charles has disturbed the game of ''pass the talking stick''.

Plagiarizing Charles will require actually wanting to do something.

Point taken, but Charles hasn't actually done anything yet.

[modwiz]

Meh....

My take on it is that the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles, for the most part, isn't claiming anything new "It's all out there, it has to be" "you know this already" and yet he is getting all of the attention right now.

IMO the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles is garnering attention for summarizing their views. The plagarized are always indignant.

Eidt to add:

This doesn't mean that Charles isn't who he says he is, just that it is rubbing some folks the wrong way.

They aren't upset about the summarizing of former views. Charles has disturbed the game of ''pass the talking stick''.

Plagiarizing Charles will require actually wanting to do something.

Point taken, but Charles hasn't actually done anything yet.

He is talking about a plan, not buying a ticket to something.
Nothing wrong with tickets but I am looking for a refund on my Titanic one.

And he has done something very profound. He has lit a fire in some of us and we are moving.

[jorr lundstrom]

Meh....

My take on it is that the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles, for the most part, isn't claiming anything new "It's all out there, it has to be" "you know this already" and yet he is getting all of the attention right now.

IMO the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles is garnering attention for summarizing their views. The plagarized are always indignant.

Eidt to add:

This doesn't mean that Charles isn't who he says he is, just that it is rubbing some folks the wrong way.

They aren't upset about the summarizing of former views. Charles has disturbed the game of ''pass the talking stick''.

Plagiarizing Charles will require actually wanting to do something.

Point taken, but Charles hasn't actually done anything yet.

He is talking about a plan, not buying a ticket to something.
Nothing wrong with tickets but I am looking for a refund on my Titanic one.

And he has done something very profound. He has lit a fire in some of us and we are moving.

Wasnt we discussing an alternative to go down with the ship, or have I missed something? LOL

[Maria Stade]

OMG Modwiz is exploding as a fish :pound:

[jorr lundstrom]

I tink Modwis iz a shapeshifter.:rofl:

[sjkted]

Holy cow, someone get him an ambulance...

--sjkted

[Maria Stade]

OMG Modwiz is exploding as a fish :pound:

The bee and the flower is beautyful

[sjkted]

I tink Modwis iz a shapeshifter.:rofl:

I know he's a shapeshifter. :p

--sjkted

[Bright Garlick]

I have deleted this post and left it with gibberish.

[Maria Stade]

I tink Modwis iz a shapeshifter.:rofl:

No he is a avatar shifter ha ha ha

[sjkted]

OMG Modwiz is exploding as a fish :pound:

The bee and the flower is beautyful

How very true. And, so is the ocean and the sun and the stars.

--sjkted

[Revere]

Point taken, but Charles hasn't actually done anything yet.

IMHO
-Played our human faults against us
-Roughed up Bill & Kerry’s relationship
-Splinter opinions/solidarity at Avalon and Camelot
-Shifted the gravity of the Whistleblower community to the UK
-Freeze the community while it waits on his next move
-Change the Whistleblower paradigm to include a "action plan"
-Reduce current mind share by the community on other Whistleblowers
-Possibly reduce cash that would have gone to other whistleblowers
-Put Bill's insight up for debate
-Provide hope that a "silver bullet" direct action plan can win
-Possibly minimize the Intent and consciousness focus of the community.
-Drive us to mental gymnastics LOL...

I'm sure I have missed some key points.
If and I do mean if this is about sabatoge, reverse the above ASAP.

Peace,

-R-

[sjkted]

Revere: You absolutely nailed it.

--sjkted

[modwiz]

OMG Modwiz is exploding as a fish :pound:

That's because I'm full of hot air. Hadn't ya heard?

[Ahkenaten]

Point taken, but Charles hasn't actually done anything yet.

IMHO
-Played our human faults against us
-Roughed up Bill & Kerry’s relationship
-Splinter opinions/solidarity at Avalon and Camelot
-Shifted the gravity of the Whistleblower community to the UK
-Freeze the community while it waits on his next move
-Change the Whistleblower paradigm to include a "action plan"
-Reduce current mind share by the community on other Whistleblowers
-Possibly reduce cash that would have gone to other whistleblowers
-Put Bill's insight up for debate
-Provide hope that a "silver bullet" direct action plan can win
-Possibly minimize the Intent and consciousness focus of the community.
-Drive us to mental gymnastics LOL...

I'm sure I have missed some key points.
If and I do mean if this is about sabatoge, reverse the above ASAP.

Peace,

-R-

You missed perhaps the most important point - while everyone is lathered up about the Charles info - the same people are distracted from watching let alone participating in real-life events on the ground in the world and there are many very important things going on right now just in case anyone fails to notice that fact.

[Maria Stade]

OMG Modwiz is exploding as a fish :pound:

That's because I'm full of hot air. Hadn't ya heard?

Ha ha yea ... take a deep breath or 3.
Get a big glas of water and put some ice in it !
Give the water some healing and love !
Drink it.

Big thanks :hug:

All Love

[Revere]

You missed perhaps the most important point - while everyone is lathered up about the Charles info - the same people are distracted from watching let alone participating in real-life events on the ground in the world and there are many very important things going on right now just in case anyone fails to notice that fact.

Darn, thought that was included and Right on brother! The MIDDLE EAST is having a revolution. In Bill's Anglo Saxon Mission & New Dawn material, Iran is nuked as the starting point of the NWO plan. Just food for thought.

-R-

[sjkted]

OMG Modwiz is exploding as a fish :pound:

That's because I'm full of hot air. Hadn't ya heard?

Nope, I already knew.

--sjkted

[Humble Janitor]

I thought you didn't believe in the Charles material?


All Western nations are under the control of the 33 and so forth.

Fishy isn't it. ;)




How could anyone not see the Charles material as a publicity stunt?

No one said that except you. :eek:

The 33 aren't exclusive to the Charles material.

Are you done flaming yet?

[Humble Janitor]

Icecold falls into the 4th category. Which are you?

Party's over. Could we kindly escort you to the door?

How about you escort yourself to the door along with the rest of Charles' followers?

When Charles leaves, you'll follow him.

I have nothing more to say on this.

[sjkted]

How about you escort yourself to the door along with the rest of Charles' followers?

When Charles leaves, you'll follow him.

I have nothing more to say on this.


I agree. You guys should be leaving now...

--sjkted

[Lazlo]

Meh....

My take on it is that the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles, for the most part, isn't claiming anything new "It's all out there, it has to be" "you know this already" and yet he is getting all of the attention right now.

IMO the other whistleblowers are upset because Charles is garnering attention for summarizing their views. The plagarized are always indignant.

Edit to add:

This doesn't mean that Charles isn't who he says he is, just that it is rubbing some folks the wrong way.

They aren't upset about the summarizing of former views. Charles has disturbed the game of ''pass the talking stick''.

Plagiarizing Charles will require actually wanting to do something.

Point taken, but Charles hasn't actually done anything yet.

He is talking about a plan, not buying a ticket to something.
Nothing wrong with tickets but I am looking for a refund on my Titanic one.

And he has done something very profound. He has lit a fire in some of us and we are moving.

In his video interview Charles said the TPTB roll with laughter when they get people running as hard as they can in exactly the wrong direction, and taking as many people with them as they can.

Charles has never disavowed his conviction that depopulation is the only answer. Based on posts from joedjemal, it sounds to me like Charles wants everyone to work on building arks (accepting that depopulation is inevitable) instead of trying to disrupt the plans.

Listen to the interview again, take Charles at face value, believe what he says is his truth. Keep what I said in mind while you do this, and then tell me that Charles has our best interests at heart. He re-iterated at the end that he doesn't care about people, even when Bill pressed him on it.

I believe that you can work on your own community and preps without giving up hope of stopping them.

Listen to it again.

[Humble Janitor]

How about you escort yourself to the door along with the rest of Charles' followers?

When Charles leaves, you'll follow him.

I have nothing more to say on this.


I agree. You guys should be leaving now...

--sjkted

I'm not going anywhere.

I've had too many positive experiences with this site to just throw them away.

[Ahkenaten]

The black crows

[Carmody]

If Charles is for real, and is working against a Machiavellian system, then there are certain tactical moves he must take and make and designs he must work his way through.

If he is full of it, it will look the same.

It really is that simple.

Thus the quandary.

[Icecold]

Members, you may or may not be aware.

This is an example for your edification.

Its called....hijacking a thread.

Watch and learn the technique.

Carry on gentlemen. This is highly amusing. ;)

[bluestflame]

If Charles is for real, and is working against a Machiavellian system, then there are certain tactical moves he must take and make and designs he must work his way through.

If he is full of it, it will look the same.

It really is that simple.

Thus the quandary.

like he himself said , clever boxing

[modwiz]

Members, you may or may not be aware.

This is an example for your edification.

Its called....hijacking a thread.

Watch and learn the technique.

Carry on gentlemen. This is highly amusing. ;)

Duly noted and energy withdrawn.

[shybastid]

Disappear? I thought Charles was putting up his own site, and the 18 were just getting toghether for a more in depth focus group.

I just asked on the wrong thread, if anyone heard what David Wilcoxes opinion was on this information . Or any of Kerry's contacts or Bill and Kerry's Camelot's combined friends, in the overlapping circles..
Not HER contacts specifically.

Just some other opinions from previous interviewies.

Not looking for camps or sides.

[Icecold]

Carmody old chap,


If Charles is for real, and is working against a Machiavellian system, then there are certain tactical moves he must take and make and designs he must work his way through.

can you be a bit more specific?

Please outline some of the moves for our members.

Cheers.

[Star Gazer]

Having followed the works of Tsarion and Icke I perceived Europe as being the forefront of the alternative community.

[jorr lundstrom]

Members, you may or may not be aware.

This is an example for your edification.

Its called....hijacking a thread.

Watch and learn the technique.

Carry on gentlemen. This is highly amusing. ;)

Yeah, and watch the carnivrous fishes coming out of the seaweed. LOL

[Icecold]

Star gazer, I'm glad to see that perspective. It is an indication of preference and discernment on your part, but is not indicative of the broader tapestry of 'NWO expert' agendas and politics. The European alternative community is focused on practical action rather than showmanship and money spinning exercises.


Having followed the works of Tsarion and Icke I perceived Europe as being the forefront of the alternative community.

I suppose in a way, we all have our preferences. This may be the reason why so many people have found Avalon to their liking. The proof is in the membership here which for the most part is of the highest quality. I've not seen a more practically potent mix of humanity anywhere else.

[Maria Stade]

Lesson learned Sorry Icecold :o

Yes of Atticus and wisleblowers and all have an effect on everything.
We all have our own responebillity in this.
I have my self been sharing informations on global scale for years !

Some goes open in forums and other goes by PM or mail.

It takes time but the shange will come and we are all on the sinking ship.


I see here is old member saying that we should leav !

Sorry but if you would be a moderator or forum owner then that would be a proper behavior.
But you are not so speak with Bill about it !

Whats the fear ???

Thank you Icecold for a good thread.
:luv:

[sandy]

I don't always like giving my point of view but in this case I feel it maybe useful.

Many people have been misled in both project Camelot and project Avalon (no offence to Bill or Kerry) by truths and half truths.
The Charles material is well crafted. I know a different truth than the one presented here. One of the 5 arms of TPTB (and my money is on the military-corporate) may well be behind this but this could have nothing to do with TPTB. The effect seems to be to create greater polarization in an already greatly divided community. But the upside is that there has been a lot of goodwill and kindness and a sense of genuine compassion. We all make choices and we must all learn to think and feel for ourselves. No one else is our salvation. Each individual is their own path.

None of you have heard in this forum from the aliens themselves, who play a large part in nurturing events and evolution on this world. And much as it pains many of you to believe it, most of them are creatures of universal compassion. You cannot be in the presence of these beings without being emotionally volatile or physically unwell. Such is the energy of a being that knows no selfishness but only love and compassion. Until such time as someone comes forward who has worked closely with these beings or someone who works in 1 of the other 4 arms of TPTB comes forward to open their heart and mind, I suggest that all Avalonians take everything that is seen as disclosure here or in Kerry's camp, with a grain of salt. You have not yet heard from those truly in the know. My suspiceon is that they do not yet come forward, so as to protect us all from ourselves. The greatest obstacle to disclosure of the truth of our planets history and alien intervention and their ongoing presence, is the divisions that form in mankind. Until we relax the conquering, dividing and seeking mind and learn to feel, they will remain silent. Not uncaring but full of compassion for our long term well being. :wave:

Well Said Bright Garlick.......................Oh how the Human loves to ASS - U - ME

[modwiz]

The laughing of hyenas quiets as the meat disappears.
(throws a scrap with this remark)

[sjkted]

Members, you may or may not be aware.

This is an example for your edification.

Its called....hijacking a thread.

Watch and learn the technique.

Carry on gentlemen. This is highly amusing. ;)

Do you find it amusing like one watching an experiment?

--sjkted

¤=[Post Update]=¤


The laughing of hyenas quiets as the meat disappears.
(throws a scrap with this remark)

Your current reptile avatar serves you well, if you would stop changing it...

--sjkted

[modwiz]

Members, you may or may not be aware.

This is an example for your edification.

Its called....hijacking a thread.

Watch and learn the technique.

Carry on gentlemen. This is highly amusing. ;)

Do you find it amusing like one watching an experiment?

--sjkted

In fact we do.






The laughing of hyenas quiets as the meat disappears.
(throws a scrap with this remark)

Your current reptile avatar serves you well, if you would stop changing it...

--sjkted

It a family resemblance. You could say it's in the blood.

Mmmm. Manflesh.

[dejavu]

Icecold I'm a little distracted in what point were supposed to be discussing....is it the shift from U.S . to U.K. NWO or Kerry Cassidy's campaign to challenge the Charles information as you mention both in your opening statement. There is also an element in this thread that is related to you and who you are as opposed to your question which for people who don't know you and who are focusing on the question is quite confusing.

[Icecold]

Icecold I'm a little distracted in what point were supposed to be discussing....is it the shift from U.S . to U.K. NWO or Kerry Cassidy's campaign to challenge the Charles information as you mention both in your opening statement. There is also an element in this thread that is related to you and who you are as opposed to your question which for people who don't know you and who are focusing on the question is quite confusing.

Both of these things are interrelated.


is it the shift from U.S . to U.K. NWO or Kerry Cassidy's campaign to challenge the Charles information

Every other distraction on the thread was....a distraction? :rolleyes:

Ignore the dark energies Dejavu :o

[sjkted]

In fact we do.

Is there more than one of you in there?

--sjkted

[Cottage Rose]

[
IMHO
-Played our human faults against us
-Roughed up Bill & Kerry’s relationship
-Splinter opinions/solidarity at Avalon and Camelot
-Shifted the gravity of the Whistleblower community to the UK
-Freeze the community while it waits on his next move
-Change the Whistleblower paradigm to include a "action plan"
-Reduce current mind share by the community on other Whistleblowers
-Possibly reduce cash that would have gone to other whistleblowers
-Put Bill's insight up for debate
-Provide hope that a "silver bullet" direct action plan can win
-Possibly minimize the Intent and consciousness focus of the community.
-Drive us to mental gymnastics LOL...

I'm sure I have missed some key points.
If and I do mean if this is about sabatoge, reverse the above ASAP.

Peace,

-R-

Excuse me, but it is Kerry that has done the "roughing up", by not treating Bill with the respect he deserves.

Bill has not said a single word against her or Camelot while she proceeds to treat him as if he is an uninformed child who needs her protection.

Bill has been the complete Gentleman. Kerry has been (text removed).

If you are searching for the source of discord, I would look back towards Camelot, not in Charles' direction.

Have you been sent to interfere with our brainstorming session?

[modwiz]

I hope this discussion that you open up here will motivate the lecturers to want to contribute to the idea pool with regard to actionable concepts.

I understand that it might call some heat on them but things are moving beyond performance art and people really are starving for something beyond another layer of black ops.

I hear a lot of people say they don't want leaders but that is a game. People think they want disclosure and answers.
Speaking for myself, I want directions and someone who has some experience to be the lead person.

Confucius said to "lead untrained people to war is to throw them away." Whatever plans take shape I want to be part of some structure.

Duncan O'Finian (sp) has some serious training and a good keen mind. I'll listen.

[jorr lundstrom]

Icecold I'm a little distracted in what point were supposed to be discussing....is it the shift from U.S . to U.K. NWO or Kerry Cassidy's campaign to challenge the Charles information as you mention both in your opening statement. There is also an element in this thread that is related to you and who you are as opposed to your question which for people who don't know you and who are focusing on the question is quite confusing.

A piece of this is that Charles came to PA and suggested that each and everyone could make their own point of view. And that was too

strong acid for some members. They have since that done what they can to miscredit Charles and those who supported his point of view.

They should be more than satisfied if Charles moved to PC. They seem have problem with there balance now when here

is no Charles to attack and are attacking at random.;)

[modwiz]

[
IMHO
-Played our human faults against us
-Roughed up Bill & Kerry’s relationship
-Splinter opinions/solidarity at Avalon and Camelot
-Shifted the gravity of the Whistleblower community to the UK
-Freeze the community while it waits on his next move
-Change the Whistleblower paradigm to include a "action plan"
-Reduce current mind share by the community on other Whistleblowers
-Possibly reduce cash that would have gone to other whistleblowers
-Put Bill's insight up for debate
-Provide hope that a "silver bullet" direct action plan can win
-Possibly minimize the Intent and consciousness focus of the community.
-Drive us to mental gymnastics LOL...

I'm sure I have missed some key points.
If and I do mean if this is about sabatoge, reverse the above ASAP.

Peace,

-R-

Excuse me, but it is Kerry that has done the "roughing up", by not treating Bill with the respect he deserves.

Bill has not said a single word against her or Camelot while she proceeds to treat him as if he is an uninformed child who needs her protection.

Bill has been the complete Gentleman. Kerry has been (text removed).

If you are searching for the source of discord, I would look back towards Camelot, not in Charles' direction.

Have you been sent to interfere with our brainstorming session?


Paul Revere still has that, "the British are coming" thing going on. I guess.

[Darla Ken Pearce]

Charles' contribution is a stand alone offering. He need nothing to prop it up nor can anything be taken away from what he's shared. He is the insider, here, after all. There is nothing that could possibly discredit him. It is hard (but not impossible) for me to believe Kerry is trying to discredit him but from a different perspective, it's kind of what she does. Not to take offense or add to any controversy. When we turn on each other it is a sure sign that something has gone amiss. The NWO has failed to thrive and the old systems are falling away before our very eyes. One question we've all had over the years of watching and not knowing exactly what was happening or who was pulling the strings ~ is that something was greatly amiss and out of whack but try as we might, we couldn't put our finger on it. Charles has put some of the piece together for us ~ and we should be grateful and honor him for his courage at this critical junction in time. Bless Kerry and those who wish to focus on discrediting ~ people and things ~ if that is what they are doing or attempting. Nothing can touch Charles' contribution and that's just how it is... Please, oh, please ~ just once, let there be peace in the valley that is our home ; ) xoxox

[dejavu]

Another Bill versus Kerry debate I see........ Isn't the question bigger than that and isn't NWO perhaps a tad more important. I feel as if I'm blowing in the wind when I contribute to some threads in this forum and I think it's about people being 'personal' in their contributions. Please note when you are seeing things from the personal it's limited to the personal! Bill and Kerry are quite capable of taking care of themselves I'm sure. There is much more going on that requires your energy.

[Icecold]

I hope this discussion that you open up here will motivate the lecturers to want to contribute to the idea pool with regard to actionable concepts.

I understand that it might call some heat on them but things are moving beyond performance art and people really are starving for something beyond another layer of black ops.

I hear a lot of people say they don't want leaders but that is a game. People think they want disclosure and answers.
Speaking for myself, I want directions and someone who has some experience to be the lead person.

Confucius said to "lead untrained people to war is to throw them away." Whatever plans take shape I want to be part of some structure.

Duncan O'Finian (sp) has some serious training and a good keen mind. I'll listen.

He reminds me of myself when I was younger, same hair type and build. LOL

I agree though. He's quiet and meditative, probably explosive. Good thing.

[jorr lundstrom]

Another Bill versus Kerry debate I see........ Isn't the question bigger than that and isn't NWO perhaps a tad more important. I feel as if I'm blowing in the wind when I contribute to some threads in this forum and I think it's about people being 'personal' in their contributions. Please note when you are seeing things from the personal it's limited to the personal! Bill and Kerry are quite capable of taking care of themselves I'm sure. There is much more going on that requires your energy.

I am totally convinced that Bill And Kerry are capable of taking care of themselves. The problem here now is about arranging

possiblities to anything constructive at all. Some people cant do anything creative, but they can always do something destructive.

And that seem to be good enough for them so they can show the world that they exist. :tape:

[Cottage Rose]

Icecold falls into the 4th category. Which are you?

Party's over. Could we kindly escort you to the door?

How about you escort yourself to the door along with the rest of Charles' followers?

When Charles leaves, you'll follow him.

I have nothing more to say on this.

If you were attending a party where a group of people were minding their own business in a separate room discussing the art of making Rasberry Truffles and you hated Rasberry Truffles, would you feel it necessary to enter and heckle them about the wisdom of enjoying Rasberry Trufffles?

[modwiz]

Icecold, it seems that your big picture psychological framing here, which was insightful in ways I am in awe of, is somehow missing a pick up in the development of this thread. Perhaps there is no where to go. You elucidated something fresh and overlooked by all but the particulars noted in your observation. Maybe they were missing it and your view might set even them free.

Perhaps this manifesto is so concise and illuminating enough that we have no place to take this further in a way that stays healthy.

I understand this concept may recommend me for counseling. :wacko::flypig::der::jester::jester::jester:

[Icecold]

CottageRose:

If you were attending at a party where a group of people were minding their own business in a separate room discussing the art of making Rasberry Truffles and you hated Rasberry Truffles, would you feel it necessary to enter and heckle them about the wisdom of enjoying Rasberry Trufffles?

That was a beautiful analogy. LOL

[dejavu]

Firstly thank you for your response however, can I point out to become constructive something has to be acknowledged and thats exactly what this thread is doing when it was started as a discussion about NWO I think ?

[Icecold]

Thanks MW,


Perhaps this manifesto is so concise and illuminating enough that we have no place to take this further in a way that stays healthy.

I suppose the statement is a statement and its own explanation. Thanks for the insight.


I'm sure other thoughts will be added as people see the thread.

All threads cook..to a certain extent.


Thanks for your thoughts DejaVu

[Humble Janitor]

Icecold falls into the 4th category. Which are you?

Party's over. Could we kindly escort you to the door?

How about you escort yourself to the door along with the rest of Charles' followers?

When Charles leaves, you'll follow him.

I have nothing more to say on this.

If you were attending a party where a group of people were minding their own business in a separate room discussing the art of making Rasberry Truffles and you hated Rasberry Truffles, would you feel it necessary to enter and heckle them about the wisdom of enjoying Rasberry Trufffles?

If Charles was the only reason that you came here, do you think people would sit idly by and watch the forum get hijacked by Charles this, Charles that?

[Ross]

Bill and Kerry are about to meet for a conference in the US this weekend. They are often in close contact. They both have been through the mill, as it were. They are both intelligent individuals in their own right. We are all indebted to them for the fact that we are all here.

Ross

[Icecold]

All of that may be true Ross. However, it doesn't affect anything I've said.


Facts about which you chose your words carefully.

[Ross]

All of that may be true Ross. However, it doesn't affect anything I've said.

There is no "may be true" Icecold, they are facts.

Ross

[ace]

Whistle blowers going against each other, gives me a bad vibe, jealousy, insecurity,
makes me wonder what their in it for.

Regards
Ace

[aikya]

What I am seeing is a small group of people who are playing both sides of the fence, in tandem, often criticising those with views on both sides any argument. If I didn't know better, it would almost seem as though they were working together and were intent on arguing. I wonder why.

[TigerLilly]

Hegemony is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over other groups. It requires the consent of the majority to keep the dominant group in power. The term has come to be used in a variety of other contexts.


Like no other Material previously disclosed, the Charles material has polarized the NWO debate. The greatest effect it has achieved is to move the focus of the NWO debate AWAY from the United States where it has been dominant since the origins of the debate.

Prior to release of the Charles material the NWO debate was dominated by American whistleblowers and American disclosure experts. This view does not say that disclosure experts were not present in other parts of the world, the view is saying that the hegemony relating to the debate rested firmly in the hands of US disclosure community. They WERE the dominant group.

The greatest effect of the Charles material has been to shift the hegemony from the United States to Europe. Specifically the UK. This has cause an uproar in the disclosure community.

This has dramatically affected the career paths of not only US disclosure experts, but also US whistleblowers. It has fundamentally turned people’s heads away from their stories. This must have ramifications and we can see them unfolding now as the realization sinks in.

In response to this realization, for example, Kerry Cassidy has mounted a campaign which challenges the Charles material at many levels. She is beginning to marshal her forces such among some of the whistleblowers whose limelight has been put in the shade, as it were, by the Charles material. Duncan O’Finnian, Heather, there will be others. There is a concerted attempt being made by Kerry Cassidy and her allies, to get involved in the Charles material while on the other hand working hard to discredit the material. This is a critical priority for the Kerry Cassidy brigade for one reason that is that it may be the case that after recruiting the 18, Charles will fundamentally disappear from the scene and be largely unavailable for comment. This seems obvious; Charles is not in the vein of US whistleblowers who are public celebrities. So Kerry needs to move fast to get her people into the debate, before the Charles information goes underground.

The major difference between the Charles material and the existing US NWO order material is that the US material has no effective road down which to travel, other than hoping that the public will wake up enough to engage in a revolution against the NWO. On the other hand, the Charles material has made it clear there is a plan in place and that plan will be carried out with the help of a selected group of people. In other words, something is planned to start, a practical approach which the US NWO debate does not have. The US story is in a holding pattern designed to create various lecturing careers for a variety of whistleblowers, NWO experts and pseudo prophets. The careers are reminiscent of the Oprah Winfrey cult of personality, American phenomena.





Let's discuss this view........

Hello Icecold

As usual you really challenge us to think and look beneath the surface.
You have made your point perfectly, there is little we can add.

As you say the debate has until know be dominated by the Americans, the important question is why has the Charles material caused such a dramatic change in the disclosure community?
It is, again as you say, his promise of action, the possibility of a workable plan which has so captured our attention.

Maybe we are tired of horror stories of what is to come, of the terrible things that are happening out of sight and being planned for our futures.
We are tired of feeling helpless, of being the victims, manipulated and unimportant.

Up until now our only possible action was to run away into the hills and try to plan for our own survival. We have all tried with little success to spread the news to the sleeping people around us, only to be labelled conspiracy theorists.

Finally along comes Charles with his down to earth, straight talking Cockney manner, confirming our fears and offering ACTION.

He has changed the whole focus of our attention, changed the very energy of the whole community just by introducing the possibility of a workable plan!

We are all thinking of plans, wracking our brains to imagine what it could be. This in itself is very powerful.

He has given us hope and this is the big difference between Charles and the other Whistleblowers.

TigerLilly

[jorr lundstrom]

What I am seeing is a small group of people who are playing both sides of the fence, in tandem, often criticising those with views on both sides any argument. If I didn't know better, it would almost seem as though they were working together and were intent on arguing. I wonder why.

I wonder if the anwer to this is: Just because they can.;)

[John White]

Bill and Kerry are about to meet for a conference in the US this weekend. They are often in close contact. They both have been through the mill, as it were. They are both intelligent individuals in their own right. We are all indebted to them for the fact that we are all here.

Ross

Appreciative? Certainly?

Indebted? No

An invite that carries a debt is no invite at all

[John White]

He has changed the whole focus of our attention, changed the very energy of the whole community just by introducing the possibility of a workable plan!

We are all thinking of plans, wracking our brains to imagine what it could be. This in itself is very powerful.


What plan did we ever need except to manifest ourselves as fully as we can?

Not to say "don't do this or that" if anyone wishes to, that's our own business

But my heart says we are not here to follow, but to be, and to associate where there is harmony with our energy

That's all that has ever been needed to "save" or "change" the world: to truly take self responsibility

Charles used to work for those who planned to rule the world... now he wants to recruit for a plan to save it

That says more about the nature of the limits of "plans" than right action to me

Wisdom says to take control of ourselves and our own power

And if we allow our "fire" to be lit by another, we should not be suprised if we lose our say in how that "fire" burns

[John White]

Regarding the question of Charles effect on the "NWO debate" re USA/UK and how researchers "see it"

Well lets celebrate an expansion of perception for the value it has... but to ask "is europe more awake" is just folly

Are you awake? If you are, what does it matter where you are?

And speaking as someone who has lived my life a little over 100 miles from that snake pit known as "The City of London"

Oh yes, its nature is well known... as is where its "power" comes from

[aikya]

What I am seeing is a small group of people who are playing both sides of the fence, in tandem, often criticising those with views on both sides any argument. If I didn't know better, it would almost seem as though they were working together and were intent on arguing. I wonder why.

I wonder if the anwer to this is: Just because they can.;)

Yes, that's one possibility.

[Calz]

Good Morning ... *yawn* :yawn: ... *stretch* :ranger:

It seems "the morning paper" has been replaced by catching up on "the thread o' the day at Avalon".

Just read through this entire thread and found some very good stuff here.

No question the track record for the NWO is that any time there is a positive group gaining traction and momentum they use means to subvert and take over that group (usually starting with $$$ influence).

Could name many ... Greenpeace ... Scientology (for those that have not read the written interview with Bill regarding "Ron's Org" I would suggest doing so). There is an occasional "But Bill is a member of Scientology ..." here and they clearly either did not read that interview or it went straight over their heads.

Anyway ... (still working on 1st cup of coffee but ...)

Ice are you suggesting that Kerry and her merry band of whistleblowers are now attempting to takeover and subvert the Charles material ... for the NWO???

I have a hard time with that ... clearly there is disagreement agreed.

For the sake of arguement let us say all the Charles material is 100% legit.

In that case obviously there would be those going to the top of all "groups" (save Charles "Master" who is/was the one bringing forth "the plan" to begin with) which would do all in their power to take over at least "the item" if not the information itself.

Personally I have never gotten beyond the fence sitter position.

Fascinating story to be sure and what has happened here at Avalon as a result is very thought provoking (ie think "Enlightened" as a subset or microcosm).

I absolutely do applaud having an "actionable plan" and anyone here who is motivated to join the "18" or whatever becomes of the "next step" my hat is off to you.

That said ... is it not Charles position that the positive nature of his plan is to hasten the dimise of 90% so that the remaining 10% of humanity have a better chance at survival??? Lots of misquoting of Charles so forgive me if I am of the wrong impression.

In my earlier post on page one I mentioned Mother Earth being able to take care of herself (and Ice posted his agreement with that).

In the same fashion ... does it not stand to reason that "those" who have instigated this "experiment" know how to handle the sitation regardless???

Could be time to "reseed" or perhaps that is what all the hybrid building over the last 50/60 years has been all about???

Perhaps, as been alluded to here, that it is time for HUMANITY to (re)create itself for the very first time?

Transhumanism anyone??? Lovely prospect.

When those reemerging from the underground bunkers find the few survivors what do expect that mindset would do with us?

:peep: :ballchain:

No small wonder so many cling to "rapture" :rapture:or the "galactic federation" coming to the rescue :)

Just a few thoughts ... heading for my 2nd cup now.

[TigerLilly]

He has changed the whole focus of our attention, changed the very energy of the whole community just by introducing the possibility of a workable plan!

We are all thinking of plans, wracking our brains to imagine what it could be. This in itself is very powerful.


What plan did we ever need except to manifest ourselves as fully as we can?

Not to say "don't do this or that" if anyone wishes to, that's our own business

But my heart says we are not here to follow, but to be, and to associate where there is harmony with our energy

That's all that has ever been needed to "save" or "change" the world: to truly take self responsibility

Charles used to work for those who planned to rule the world... now he wants to recruit for a plan to save it

That says more about the nature of the limits of "plans" than right action to me

Wisdom says to take control of ourselves and our own power

And if we allow our "fire" to be lit by another, we should not be suprised if we lose our say in how that "fire" burns

Hello John

Nobody said that we need Charles's plan or need to follow it.

The important thing is that the energy and focus has changed and that we are now looking for solutions.

If we follow our hearts and our instinct we cannot fail. There is no fail, just the experience and our part in it.

[joedjemal]

That said ... is it not Charles position that the positive nature of his plan is to hasten the dimise of 90% so that the remaining 10% of humanity have a better chance at survival??? Lots of misquoting of Charles so forgive me if I am of the wrong impression.

I don't think Charles said anything like that. I said I thought it was what certain sections of the elite were up to and it got taken as something he'd said.

[Calz]

That said ... is it not Charles position that the positive nature of his plan is to hasten the dimise of 90% so that the remaining 10% of humanity have a better chance at survival??? Lots of misquoting of Charles so forgive me if I am of the wrong impression.

I don't think Charles said anything like that. I said I thought it was what certain sections of the elite were up to and it got taken as something he'd said.


I that is the case then I am sorry. Thought I saw that in one of his own posts.

Thanks

*** after post edit ***

Could not find post I was referring to - something about how if the process dragged on then perhaps all humans would go whereas if it was hastened then perhaps 10% would survive.

Checked through a bunch of posts - nothing there so it seems to be MY BAD.

Maybe I am spending too much time here and dreamed it???

[Revere]

:peace:




[
IMHO
-Played our human faults against us
-Roughed up Bill & Kerry’s relationship
-Splinter opinions/solidarity at Avalon and Camelot
-Shifted the gravity of the Whistleblower community to the UK
-Freeze the community while it waits on his next move
-Change the Whistleblower paradigm to include a "action plan"
-Reduce current mind share by the community on other Whistleblowers
-Possibly reduce cash that would have gone to other whistleblowers
-Put Bill's insight up for debate
-Provide hope that a "silver bullet" direct action plan can win
-Possibly minimize the Intent and consciousness focus of the community.
-Drive us to mental gymnastics LOL...

I'm sure I have missed some key points.
If and I do mean if this is about sabatoge, reverse the above ASAP.

Peace,

-R-

Excuse me, but it is Kerry that has done the "roughing up", by not treating Bill with the respect he deserves.

Bill has not said a single word against her or Camelot while she proceeds to treat him as if he is an uninformed child who needs her protection.

Bill has been the complete Gentleman. Kerry has been (text removed).

If you are searching for the source of discord, I would look back towards Camelot, not in Charles' direction.

Have you been sent to interfere with our brainstorming session?


Paul Revere still has that, "the British are coming" thing going on. I guess.

Modwiz, Naah...the British came and went... I'm just worried for our brothers and sisters who don't see the PTB and the Corpocracy that is taking over. We need their minds to awaken. I hope to do my part beyond debating it.

Rose, come on....sent to ruin the brainstorming. That was not my intention and that tone may have more storming then brain in it. But, no offense taken or given I hope. We all make assumptions. :peace:

Peace,
-R-

[Cottage Rose]

Rose, come on....sent to ruin the brainstorming. That was not my intention and that tone may have more storming then brain in it. But, no offense taken or given I hope. We all make assumptions. :peace:

Peace,
-R-

Sorry, Revere. I probably overreacted. I had a strange headache last night. :hug:

[Constance]

Bill and Kerry are about to meet for a conference in the US this weekend. They are often in close contact. They both have been through the mill, as it were. They are both intelligent individuals in their own right. We are all indebted to them for the fact that we are all here.

Ross

Thank you Ross.

I am very grateful to Bill and Kerry for us being here. Thanks Bill, thanks Kerry! Without you, I couldn't be here on this forum.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



All of that may be true Ross. However, it doesn't affect anything I've said.

There is no "may be true" Icecold, they are facts.

Ross

I honour all forms and beings in ALL their diversity. Thank you ALL for being here. We are one.
And again, I offer you all my unconditional love and support.

with love and light,
Constance

[honeybee]

[Quote: Tigerlilly :

'He has changed the whole focus of our attention, changed the very energy of the whole community just by introducing the possibility of a workable plan!

We are all thinking of plans, wracking our brains to imagine what it could be. This in itself is very powerful.'


I think this is a very important point Tigerlilly. Visualisation of alternatives by a large group of people, and the visualisation of taking action which is then followed through practically. This holds true regardless of what our differing opinions on the purpose of the Charles material may be.

[Intraphase]

ICECOLD

Hegemony is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over other groups. It requires the consent of the majority to keep the dominant group in power. The term has come to be used in a variety of other contexts.


The core story is used as a secret source of fuel on the physical landscape battlefield of wealth and power acquisition. The core story is also used as a covert form of limited access to time space for mischief making and further reinforcement of the conspiracy industry and the deliberately never ending truth questing game where participants are sent out like cartoon character Elmer Fudd to hunt rabbits with a rabbit hunting license printed by the truth questing industry.

To the best of my knowledge Bugs Bunny is alive and well and laughing hard and long.

ICECOLD

Like no other Material previously disclosed, the Charles material has polarized the NWO debate. The greatest effect it has achieved is to move the focus of the NWO debate AWAY from the United States where it has been dominant since the origins of the debate.


Rendlesham was a more significant event than Roswell.
The service to universe team won that battle fair and square, straight up, no contest, knock out at the one minute mark in the first round.


ICECOLD

Prior to release of the Charles material the NWO debate was dominated by American whistleblowers and American disclosure experts. This view does not say that disclosure experts were not present in other parts of the world, the view is saying that the hegemony relating to the debate rested firmly in the hands of US disclosure community. They WERE the dominant group.



Evil concentrated is evil destroyed. They know the "core story" and profit from non-disclosure.


ICECOLD

The greatest effect of the Charles material has been to shift the hegemony from the United States to Europe. Specifically the UK. This has caused an uproar in the disclosure community.



CIA & NSA & DIA offer better under and over the table benefit programs and early pensions than MI5 & MI6. There are still honest players in all five groups.


ICECOLD

This has dramatically affected the career paths of not only US disclosure experts, but also US whistleblowers. It has fundamentally turned people’s heads away from their stories. This must have ramifications and we can see them unfolding now as the realization sinks in.



Most whistleblowers ignore the first three rules of the game Size-Info-Retro. S.I.R. Issues. The at first disturbing consequences of effects arriving before caused and then later being dragged into the causing position by time space.

Many participants and whistleblowers are still refusing to accept their own shipping, transporting and receiving of goods and services through timespace that they created themselves. Instead pretending to be victimized by forces beyond their control. Most whistleblowers are locked in a cycle of perpetrator, victim, perpetrator never taking full creative ownership of the very points lines and circles they created in the unseen realms supporting daily existence. Instead preferring to portray themselves as the victim of powerful evil forces instead of their own potential for stupidity at their core.


ICECOLD

In response to this realization, for example, Kerry Cassidy has mounted a campaign which challenges the Charles material at many levels. She is beginning to marshal her forces such among some of the whistleblowers whose limelight has been put in the shade, as it were, by the Charles material. Duncan O’Finnian, Heather, there will be others. There is a concerted attempt being made by Kerry Cassidy and her allies, to get involved in the Charles material while on the other hand working hard to discredit the material.



The information exists as a series of portraits and a collection of lenses to view those portraits. I have not detected a single act of deliberate deception as related to the core story and its interwoven ramifications and implications. His information transfer and associated coloring and shading skills to make the material comprehensible are up to the task. Some information obviously withheld to protect the innocent from the vengeful passions of the fully programmed zealots fed a thousand variants of the core story ranging from toxic to amusing to fascinatingly accurate.


ICECOLD

This is a critical priority for the Kerry Cassidy brigade for one reason that is that it may be the case that after recruiting the 18, Charles will fundamentally disappear from the scene and be largely unavailable for comment. This seems obvious; Charles is not in the vein of US whistleblowers who are public celebrities. So Kerry needs to move fast to get her people into the debate, before the Charles information goes underground.


Even if he stays above ground the truth has been spoken and truth creates its own difficult child; power. Peripheral issues are harder to introduce, strawmen are harder to stuff, red herrings are more difficult to grow in backyard ponds.
Wiki...
Red herring is an idiomatic expression referring to the rhetorical or literary tactic of diverting attention away from an item of significance.[1] For example, in mystery fiction, where the identity of a criminal is being sought, an innocent party may be purposefully cast in a guilty light by the author through the employment of false emphasis, deceptive clues, 'loaded' words or other descriptive tricks of the trade. The reader's suspicions are thus misdirected, allowing the true culprit to go (temporarily at least) undetected. A false protagonist is another example of a red herring.


ICECOLD

The major difference between the Charles material and the existing US NWO order material is that the US material has no effective road down which to travel, other than hoping that the public will wake up enough to engage in a revolution against the NWO.

No comment at this particular and peculiar moment in time.

ICECOLD

On the other hand, the Charles material has made it clear there is a plan in place and that plan will be carried out with the help of a selected group of people. In other words, something is planned to start, a practical approach which the US NWO debate does not have. The US story is in a holding pattern designed to create various lecturing careers for a variety of whistleblowers, NWO experts and pseudo prophets. The careers are reminiscent of the Oprah Winfrey cult of personality, American phenomena.

:bathbaby::washing::playball::bathbaby:

Nod, although there are people grateful for the subjects raised and the temporary distance allowed by the disclosure as they assess who is interested in civilizations progress towards sanity and who is in it to fatten their bank account and secure their remote, country-hideout, retirement paradise.
U.S. players interested in a healthy outcome and tired of fear mongering have enjoyed the open exercise.


ICECOLD

Let's discuss this view........


Can you lend me some tin foil and a few incense sticks? Ohmmmmm...

Theme: The Player must assemble all five prime selfs to activate the core story.
Activation then reconnects the already embedded solar-galactic-universal transport and communications functions. He travels upstream in time to protect his younger (blind prince - red ball) self from numerous inexperienced timescape opponents.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4237913843211015392#

"Ugly"

Things you've done have set you back in time,
I think about the way we lived our life
was it yours or mine? (with the over mind)
Why can't you tell me?
(I can)
I had a feeling
(You'd crawl on your knees)
To punish me,

It's hard to keep you by my side,
Haunted by the vision,
Too ugly
For one day,
Go live your life,

Sick of all the ways I try to change
To keep the promises we made all over again
Can't you see?
I'm gonna try to live again
(Why Can't)
You give me the reason
(Why can't you just see)
Misery
(Set us free)

It's hard to keep you by my side,
Haunted by the vision,
Too ugly,
For one day,
You tried to keep me far behind,
Caught by indecision,
Too ugly,
If only you'd live your life,

Haunted by the vision ,
(Haunted by the vision)
Too ugly,
(Too ugly, too ugly)

It's hard to keep you by my side,
Haunted by the vision,
Too ugly,
For one day,
You tried to keep me far behind,
Caught by indecision,
Too ugly,
If only you'd live your life.

[Intraphase]

I don't always like giving my point of view but in this case I feel it maybe useful.

Many people have been misled in both project Camelot and project Avalon (no offence to Bill or Kerry) by truths and half truths.
The Charles material is well crafted. I know a different truth than the one presented here. One of the 5 arms of TPTB (and my money is on the military-corporate) may well be behind this but this could have nothing to do with TPTB. The effect seems to be to create greater polarization in an already greatly divided community. But the upside is that there has been a lot of goodwill and kindness and a sense of genuine compassion. We all make choices and we must all learn to think and feel for ourselves. No one else is our salvation. Each individual is their own path.

None of you have heard in this forum from the aliens themselves, who play a large part in nurturing events and evolution on this world. And much as it pains many of you to believe it, most of them are creatures of universal compassion. You cannot be in the presence of these beings without being emotionally volatile or physically unwell. Such is the energy of a being that knows no selfishness but only love and compassion. Until such time as someone comes forward who has worked closely with these beings or someone who works in 1 of the other 4 arms of TPTB comes forward to open their heart and mind, I suggest that all Avalonians take everything that is seen as disclosure here or in Kerry's camp, with a grain of salt. You have not yet heard from those truly in the know. My suspiceon is that they do not yet come forward, so as to protect us all from ourselves. The greatest obstacle to disclosure of the truth of our planets history and alien intervention and their ongoing presence, is the divisions that form in mankind. Until we relax the conquering, dividing and seeking mind and learn to feel, they will remain silent. Not uncaring but full of compassion for our long term well being. :wave:

Would a display of their fleets and equipment violate their universal compassion.
Any being of any locale unable to display his/her/its gear occasionally, and signal for diplomatic courier status could just be a crank call from playful enthusiastic teenagers.

It is a show me the money environment here on planet earth.
Many of these incidents are beings refusing to commit to this location and put skin in the game as players facing the consequences of their own actions. Do not become another beings pet human. That is short sighted. If they won't show you their fleet and allow independent witnessing of the asset display chances are they are similar to humans who think polar bears need a hug.

[Martin]

This is my first post regarding what is refered to here as the "Charles material". It certainly had quit an impact on the forum. But till now I can not see, where is the news? Charles didn't say anything new and he even repeated that himself a few times. The only differences between me and him talking about these kind of things are the following two:

1) I would and can not say that I do know anything for certain
2) the entrance which Charles had was quit unique

Bill Ryan basically clued his reputation to the Person that is not even a real "Charles". :p Bill seemed convinced enough of the truth of all what Charles has said, but it wouldn't be the first time that a human made a wrong decision. Especially in cases of believing to know a person. Kerry Cassidy seemes to believe that Bill is wrong and I say that can be said about everyone of us.

But the point I initially wanted to stay out is, again, what news did Charles bring forth that was not around before he decided to speak out. Well, he did say that himself a couple of times, so I guess he is kind of in the save on that one. :rolleyes: And who knows "Charles" might be all that what he implied to have been before and if he should say the truth and if he really has gained an insight and a change of intentions then I wish him all the best. I would be wrong then, but I would be gladly sad about beeing it. I could be right about my feeling, but then again I never before looked for about 2 hours at the backhead of a light haired man. Sadly for now that is all the evidence that I could clearly see. :eyebrows:

EDIT: @Intraphase thats quit a nice song, thanks for sharing. It kind of took me by suprise. :music:
MfG

Martin

[Intraphase]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_yHfKfduoI

The Songs That We Sing - Album 5:55

Saw somebody who
Reminded me of you
Before you got afraid
I wish that you could've stayed that way

I saw a little girl
I stopped and smiled at her
She screamed and ran away
It happens to me more and more these days

And these songs that you sing
Do they mean anything
To the people you're singing them to
People like you

I saw a photograph
A woman in a bath of hundred dollar bills
If the cold doesn't kill her, money will

I read a magazine
That said by seventeen
Your life was at an end
I'm dead and I'm perfectly content

And these songs that I sing
Do they mean anything
To the people I'm singing them to
People like you

And these songs that we sing
Do they mean anything
To the people we're singing them to
Tonight they do

[Intraphase]

This is my first post regarding what is refered to here as the "Charles material". It certainly had quit an impact on the forum. But till now I can not see, where is the news? Charles didn't say anything new and he even repeated that himself a few times. The only differences between me and him talking about these kind of things are the following two:

1) I would and can not say that I do know anything for certain
2) the entrance which Charles had was quit unique

Bill Ryan basically clued his reputation to the Person that is not even a real "Charles". :p Bill seemed convinced enough of the truth of all what Charles has said, but it wouldn't be the first time that a human made a wrong decision. Especially in cases of believing to know a person. Kerry Cassidy seemes to believe that Bill is wrong and I say that can be said about everyone of us.

But the point I initially wanted to stay out is, again, what news did Charles bring forth that was not around before he decided to speak out. Well, he did say that himself a couple of times, so I guess he is kind of in the save on that one. :rolleyes: And who knows "Charles" might be all that what he implied to have been before and if he should say the truth and if he really has gained an insight and a change of intentions then I wish him all the best. I would be wrong then, but I would be gladly sad about beeing it. I could be right about my feeling, but then again I never before looked for about 2 hours at the backhead of a light haired man. Sadly for now that is all the evidence that I could clearly see. :eyebrows:

MfG

Martin

A list of evidential materials suitable and satisfactory to your analytical skills and areas of expertise should be included in your post. Yes? No? Maybe? Otherwise your post sums up as a sorta kinda mostly this that or the other thing depending on which way you lean for or against what you've absorbed at any particular moment in your journeys focus from the keyboard to the output viewing screen.

Wondering aloud is a good thing.
Thanks for sharing that part of your process.

:spy:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF6XmzhffVc

1:44
"How did him and his co-defendant win it - Spin it - Right out the shrine."

[Martin]

A list of evidential materials suitable and satisfactory to your analytical skills and areas of expertise should be included in your post. Yes? No? Maybe? Otherwise your post sums up as a sorta kinda mostly this that or the other thing depending on which way you lean for or against what you've absorbed at any particular moment.

Wondering aloud is a good thing.
Thanks for sharing that part of your process.



Glad I could help. Well mostly the evidence kind of takes me and not the other way around, but that was not the point I wanted to make. But yours sums it up quit good: you want me to be on a side or at least that's the feeling I have right now and that's exactly what I do find sort of extrem regarding the reactions of the forum to the "Charles Material". Do you and if so why do you believe in "all" the "Charles Material" or just in "Charles" as a person? I do not want to offend anyone writing this. I just wanted to get some other perspective. Thanks for your reply so far.


MfG

Martin

[Icecold]

It was the solar flareup Rose.

Thanks to you all. This thread was intended to generate thinking and to provide new avenues of thought. To kick along our thinking. Its achieved its purpose IMO.

On the whole, aside from an attempted thread hijack, the members have responded in a very positive way and I am grateful for the experience.

We can discuss issues in a manner that both challenges us and allows us the freedom to express a wide variety of views on a topic.

Cheers everyone.

Icecold

[Icecold]

This was a great post Intraphase and I thank you for it.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14444-The-Charles-Material-and-its-effect-on-the-hegemony-of-the-NWO-agenda-and-debate.&p=145975&viewfull=1#post145975

I've got nothing to add.

Thanks

[Revere]

Intrphase....Can you elaborate or rexplain these thoughts and comments? I can not follow them completly.
THANKS! My interpretation is that you are discussing the Relativity of time and that they by their past and future comments are creating a present and future reality with the concequences of their statements in their or is it everyones lives?


Most whistleblowers ignore the first three rules of the game Size-Info-Retro. S.I.R. Issues. The at first disturbing consequences of effects arriving before caused and then later being dragged into the causing position by time space.

Many participants and whistleblowers are still refusing to accept their own shipping, transporting and receiving of goods and services through timespace that they created themselves. Instead pretending to be victimized by forces beyond their control. Most whistleblowers are locked in a cycle of perpetrator, victim, perpetrator never taking full creative ownership of the very points lines and circles they created in the unseen realms supporting daily existence. Instead preferring to portray themselves as the victim of powerful evil forces instead of their own potential for stupidity at their core.


ICECOLD

In response to this realization, for example, Kerry Cassidy has mounted a campaign which challenges the Charles material at many levels. She is beginning to marshal her forces such among some of the whistleblowers whose limelight has been put in the shade, as it were, by the Charles material. Duncan O’Finnian, Heather, there will be others. There is a concerted attempt being made by Kerry Cassidy and her allies, to get involved in the Charles material while on the other hand working hard to discredit the material.


The information exists as a series of portraits and a collection of lenses to view those portraits. I have not detected a single act of deliberate deception as related to the core story and its interwoven ramifications and implications. His information transfer and associated coloring and shading skills to make the material comprehensible are up to the task. Some information obviously withheld to protect the innocent from the vengeful passions of the fully programmed zealots fed a thousand variants of the core story ranging from toxic to amusing to fascinatingly accurate.

peace,
-R-

[Tommy]

Hegemony is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over other groups. It requires the consent of the majority to keep the dominant group in power. The term has come to be used in a variety of other contexts.


Like no other Material previously disclosed, the Charles material has polarized the NWO debate. The greatest effect it has achieved is to move the focus of the NWO debate AWAY from the United States where it has been dominant since the origins of the debate.

Prior to release of the Charles material the NWO debate was dominated by American whistleblowers and American disclosure experts. This view does not say that disclosure experts were not present in other parts of the world, the view is saying that the hegemony relating to the debate rested firmly in the hands of US disclosure community. They WERE the dominant group.

The greatest effect of the Charles material has been to shift the hegemony from the United States to Europe. Specifically the UK. This has cause an uproar in the disclosure community.

This has dramatically affected the career paths of not only US disclosure experts, but also US whistleblowers. It has fundamentally turned people’s heads away from their stories. This must have ramifications and we can see them unfolding now as the realization sinks in.

In response to this realization, for example, Kerry Cassidy has mounted a campaign which challenges the Charles material at many levels. She is beginning to marshal her forces such among some of the whistleblowers whose limelight has been put in the shade, as it were, by the Charles material. Duncan O’Finnian, Heather, there will be others. There is a concerted attempt being made by Kerry Cassidy and her allies, to get involved in the Charles material while on the other hand working hard to discredit the material. This is a critical priority for the Kerry Cassidy brigade for one reason that is that it may be the case that after recruiting the 18, Charles will fundamentally disappear from the scene and be largely unavailable for comment. This seems obvious; Charles is not in the vein of US whistleblowers who are public celebrities. So Kerry needs to move fast to get her people into the debate, before the Charles information goes underground.

The major difference between the Charles material and the existing US NWO order material is that the US material has no effective road down which to travel, other than hoping that the public will wake up enough to engage in a revolution against the NWO. On the other hand, the Charles material has made it clear there is a plan in place and that plan will be carried out with the help of a selected group of people. In other words, something is planned to start, a practical approach which the US NWO debate does not have. The US story is in a holding pattern designed to create various lecturing careers for a variety of whistleblowers, NWO experts and pseudo prophets. The careers are reminiscent of the Oprah Winfrey cult of personality, American phenomena.





Let's discuss this view........

While I find certain aspects of your post interesting, you assessment about "US whistle-blowers" and Kerry is simply incorrect. Check with Bill if you wish.

This will become public soon enough, from all sides.

Thats all I got now.

[Icecold]

More secret info. (Sigh)

I'd post Kerry's vicious attack on Bill, but a week is a long time in NWO politics.

How easily things are forgotten. That's politics.

[Intraphase]

A list of evidential materials suitable and satisfactory to your analytical skills and areas of expertise should be included in your post. Yes? No? Maybe? Otherwise your post sums up as a sorta kinda mostly this that or the other thing depending on which way you lean for or against what you've absorbed at any particular moment.

Wondering aloud is a good thing.
Thanks for sharing that part of your process.



Glad I could help. Well mostly the evidence kind of takes me and not the other way around, but that was not the point I wanted to make. But yours sums it up quit good: you want me to be on a side or at least that's the feeling I have right now and that's exactly what I do find sort of extrem regarding the reactions of the forum to the "Charles Material". Do you and if so why do you believe in "all" the "Charles Material" or just in "Charles" as a person? I do not want to offend anyone writing this. I just wanted to get some other perspective. Thanks for your reply so far.




MfG

Martin


I found the reaction puzzling.
I simply didn't get a negative signal on my internal radar.
To me he was like a different generation version of someone like Bob Dean.


In a lower post you asked about stuff I'm still working on:
Size - Info - Retro - Grids - & Barrier Systems.
Those key issues drive my investigation of quantum consciousness.
Also the idea of being able to sum up those ideas in one sentence, three sentences, one paragraph and then three short paragraphs before entering a bullet listed series of arguments.

If I were to go back to an old tag line argument it would be.
"We radiate time because consciousness and thought are primary."
Using that idea I was suggesting that sometimes people are receiving their own information from the past or future as it circles back around; visually similar to a person walking forward surrounded by skaters running figure eight patterns all around them.

[Intraphase]

@Revere

Intrphase....Can you elaborate or rexplain these thoughts and comments? I can not follow them completly.
THANKS! My interpretation is that you are discussing the Relativity of time and that they by their past and future comments are creating a present and future reality with the concequences of their statements in their or is it everyones lives?

Both R. That cause and effect are more illusive; also any form of construct be it thoughts or actions, and yes the circling of cause and effect sometimes primarily at the caster of causes and sometimes the effect cause net can include whole groups. The idea goes to truly knowing ones own internal content. By reaching that point; effects and causes seem more transparent in terms of what a person attracts and repels. Pushed further by orders of magnitudes it would imply the ability to increase a persons skills to influence outcomes by boosting the necessary key component in the micro-cosmic, the coherent production of cohesive inter-locking patterns that are sustainable and usable as components in an assembly and dis-assembly process. All of these considerations become important in the creation of reactions that require separation yet transfer of information between realms.

[Carmody]

@Revere

Intrphase....Can you elaborate or rexplain these thoughts and comments? I can not follow them completly.
THANKS! My interpretation is that you are discussing the Relativity of time and that they by their past and future comments are creating a present and future reality with the concequences of their statements in their or is it everyones lives?

Both R. That cause and effect are more illusive; also any form of construct be it thoughts or actions, and yes the circling of cause and effect sometimes primarily at the caster of causes and sometimes the effect cause net can include whole groups. The idea goes to truly knowing ones own internal content. By reaching that point; effects and causes seem more transparent in terms of what a person attracts and repels. Pushed further by orders of magnitudes it would imply the ability to increase a persons skills to influence outcomes by boosting the necessary key component in the micro-cosmic, the coherent production of cohesive inter-locking patterns that are sustainable and usable as components in an assembly and dis-assembly process. All of these considerations become important in the creation of reactions that require separation yet transfer of information between realms.

hang on while I go and get something....

From the 'dreambus' thread in the spirituality section:

The inner world of the ego reflection on/in the given relevant astral plane..... is surprisingly similar to the film Inception.

Consensus reality in small groups, around their given activities and involvements.

Watching the interactions and the motions, changes. Walking among them is very interesting too.

Some will see you, some will not, some will respond, some will simply interact.

Some will even be aware. The odd one says, 'I see you'. And I smile back. It is a fun game.

....and Don Quixote goes galloping off in all directions.


For this 'one'...this is/was the gift of seeing the ego of the consensus reality ...forming itself as a rolling wave both in and out of time, in anticipation of a 'reality' to come, and history to be, to recall. to watch the separateness of the dance of the human form of the oneness of all.

1:12 in the video.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10942-Who-s-Driving-The-Dreambus-The-Documentary
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a combination of postulation in the conclusion... based on observation and a bit of data fitting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-when a plasma stream comes out of a pulsar, it is actually known to be propagating faster than light speed. This is the electric universe model.

-I proposed 2d oscillating waves, in interactive moments where their vector sums create the spinning particles, fractal patterns... and then specific angles of incidence and influence create our specific particle functions. The basics of fractal patterning.

-when I call down the lighting, I'm using dimensional energies to ionize a channel in the air, where the air is heavily polarized and pressured... and set to pop off, so I merely do the little work required and thus, the arc strike.

-when the bow of a ship is pushing through water, there is a pre-wave, that rolls in front of the wave of that is at the bow of the ship.

-(There is another point here I raised originally, but that will remain nameless for the moment. It was a practical realization of currently unsolved issues in specific areas of physics. It also illustrated the pre-wave phenomena.)

-The fractal universe is the same with regard to having a pre-wave, in the Temporal flow systems. There are also pre-existing dimensional-temporal wavefronts of us to encounter, like the galactic waves and the crossing of the ecliptic (galaxy center plane crossing-polarity flip), this proton cloud we re entering, etc. Astrology, planetary motion, etc.

-parallel dimensions - one mundane one where I have toothache and another where I have dimensional parasite on me.

-in the above there is bleed through. Thus all of this situation in this entire set of bullet points. Multi-level co-creation.

- it may be that which we struggle with can influence us in that area.


-when I precognate peoples and the world's "life", I'm seeing a pre-wave of evolving creation--I can integrate with it live, but forward in time. I'm 'seeing' the pre-wave, in time. I can interact with it.

-that pre-wave is on the edge of our current conscious state? Is it filtered out by ego and all associated, and thus we have no idea that in that co-created astral plain pre-wave of time flow, we are creating things that are ego driven and primarily UNCONSCIOUS? Seriously, that is exactly what it looks like. 'Little David Bohm plasma exclusion bubbles' of small groups, individuals, etc. Moving, shifting, changing, etc. Dreamscape- pre-wave--- ego driven.

-Since this the exact leading wave, similar to the small pre-wave on the bow of the ship... and like the FTL plasma streams from the pulsars...me seemingly ionizing the air (psychic dimensional energies) to create the space for the charge to arc and create a lightning strike (there is no time inside of perfect current flow-it is separate from the external space), well, I think you might begin to see it.

-Is this is how we are being manipulated? We are being shown our horror, so we can egotistically express it in the astral pre-wave that I see all the time..and in that moment MAKE IT REAL, in our near and coming future? Is that is how our timelines are being steered? This, combined with the astrology and it's holographic dimensional influences. This is what we have to recognize and cease responding to.

the 'temporal' anticipation of consensus reality?

[Revere]

Carmody-
-Is this is how we are being manipulated? We are being shown our horror, so we can egotistically express it in the astral pre-wave that I see all the time..and in that moment MAKE IT REAL, in our near and coming future? Is that is how our timelines are being steered? This, combined with the astrology and it's holographic dimensional influences. This is what we have to recognize and cease responding to.

the 'temporal' anticipation of consensus reality?

Carmody your fluidity in these concepts around the "prewave function" is truly impressive. I first came across them through Claude, Swanson Ph.D. in his Book "The Synchronized Universe" A new Science of the Paranormal. I enjoyed the book immensely and highly recommend it. I have heard that the proton belt is controversial? Can you recommend any even handed treatments on the topic?

Also, your mention of how our time lines are being steered, do you have any recommendation in information around this topic or are you expressing a personal hypothesis of possibly how TPTB may manipulate mankind into a reality suitable to them. Please expand your thoughts if this manipulation is through controlling and directing information we are exposed to through our consciousness or is there a technological enhancement being leveraged. I am not assuming that you have any inside information just curious to your thoughts. Thanks?

Please consider joining the Global Intention Group in the groups section, we would be honored to have you participate and any and all Avalonians as well.

Thanks!

Peace,
-R-

[Icecold]

Carmody.

You may or may not be aware of the fact, and I do not know how this affects your thinking on the matter above, but lightning current discharge does not occur as a continuous path from earth or cloud or vice versa.

Lightning current flow is not _____________________________________

The current flow is -------------------------------------------------

There are air gaps all the way along the path of discharge. This has always inclined me to believe that lightning moves in some other space and weaves its way along to ground.

[Carmody]

Carmody.

You may or may not be aware of the fact, and I do not know how this affects your thinking on the matter above, but lightning current discharge does not occur as a continuous path from earth or cloud or vice versa.

Lightning current flow is not _____________________________________

The current flow is -------------------------------------------------

There are air gaps all the way along the path of discharge. This has always inclined me to believe that lightning moves in some other space and weaves its way along to ground.

yes indeedy. it is likely ionization, polarization, etc. which is likely why it can be manipulated into happening in such highly charged, pressured and polarized environments.

Like this stew of mankind's growth.

I'm waiting for the lightening to strike, but then again, this may be the fastest pace that works..the pace we are experiencing right now.